Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread [Archive] - Page 6

Frank818

02-11-2017, 07:19 PM

Dan, tnx a lot, it looks now very similar to what I have adjusted, so I guess I'm cleared on that one.

Jeff, that's really sad, although I bet the kid, if still alive, had a lot of fun with his Rabbit!

Bob, that brake light came with the spoiler?

To all people who want to register an 818 in QC, I think all of the FFR lights are not legal, apart probably from the big brake lights. So you remember my awesome headlight buckets and lighting? All crap!!! Good to trash. Plus I learned that I need a VIN to match my G50 gearbox to prove it has not been stolen. So the car will sit in the garage for what, another year and 20k later probably...

To register the lights, here's a comparison of the rules:

Front DRL/Parking -- SAE P -- FFR None
Front TS -- SAE I -- FFR None
Tail lights -- SAE T -- FFR DOT-STI (that could work I think)
Brake lights -- SAE S -- FFR DOT-STI (that could work I think)
Rear TS -- SAE I or S -- FFR SAE P
Backup lights -- SAE R -- FFR SAE P (FFR's backup/TS lights are no good for both uses)
License Plate -- SAE L -- FFR None
3rd brake light -- SAE U3 -- FFR No light

Don't forget your front and rear side markers+ rear reflectors. Those are different rules.

Solutions:

Rear
I could get away with the brake/TS if I pay a few 100s bucks to get my wiring code updated so I can use the brake lights as TS. Like Bob on one his 6 colored 818s.
I need to trash the reverse/TS sockets and find a new solution. My intention is to fit the rear reflectors into the recess area and find one SAE R reverse light that I would fit... somewhere!
I need to find a new solution for the license plate light.
As for the 3rd brake light, 87-94 Porsche lights would fit well on the engine cover and maybe the 05-10 Scion TC's. Slim inside. But quite wide, not sure I could fit it with my exhaust but for all builds without an exhaust there you could! So those are 2 solutions for you.

Front
Now that's a huge headache. The lights need to be at 15" from the ground or more. Same for my front side markers, which are at... 14"!! I did it wrong. I will cheat and raise the car at 5.5" to pass inspection, IF I can raise the suspension that high! I need help on that, is the suspension adjustable to that high with the ring?
At 15" off the ground, it eliminates the possibility to fit lights in the nose insert. If I find very small DRLs and TS I could fit them on the horizontal fiberglass of the fenders where the fenders start above the nose. Or I need to modify the buckets and fit the lights in the headlights. That is big, would need to delete at least one of the LEDs and then what lights do I find to fit in there? Most OEM lights are now embedded in the buckets so it's hard to extract them and use just the lights.
I could re-use FFR's SAE P rear TS and fit them at the front. They would work as DRLs only as for TS I need SAE I. But where do you want me to fit those Hella sockets? There's no place.
At the front, I am totally out of clues right now, usually SAE/DOT lights are never small so they will take place and I highly doubt I can fit them in the buckets. The front look of the car is completely ruined. Not sure what I'll do.

For the G50 gearbox well that's a VR6 issue, I have found the serial number on the casing, I will call the dealer on Monday and ask them if they can trace back the VIN number that was assigned to the serial number. I know they do the other way around, so probably that way they can as well. If they cannot, my only option is to buy a 8k-10k-15k G50 with VIN, use that VIN and sell the newly bought gearbox. Of course, the serial number will not match the VIN, so if they check that far I'm screwed and will need to open the gearbox and switch the casings. More headaches, they never stop on this build, I am really at the end of my patience, my energy is probably at 1 on a scale of 10. This will take me a lot of efforts to ramp up on these issues. And it's not over if I make it, there are other risks I face after these issues are fixed.

Other options are to part off the car and sell the parts or sell the car as a whole.
Good luck to all quebeckers building an 818.

frankc5r

02-11-2017, 08:10 PM

Wow!!

Bob_n_Cincy

02-11-2017, 09:25 PM

Bob, that brake light came with the spoiler?

Frank
My wing is from a 98 Hyundi Tiburon, so it is SAE
Bob

Canadian818

02-12-2017, 12:02 AM

Is it possible to register it in another province? Any local cobra guys? Did they have this much trouble? I didn't realize there was much difference province to province, but then again, Quebec is always the exception. Terrible news, I'd try a different DMV. As far as frame mods, you must remind them that in Canada you technically didn't import a Factory Five 818, you merely imported a "starter kit" to build your own car. Kit cars are illegal in Canada, but building your own isn't. There's guys here with homemade t-buckets with a homemade frame using a cummins engine. If those guys can get plates, surely your frame mods are moot.

AZPete

02-12-2017, 02:16 PM

Ouch, Frank. That hurts to hear. I think Adam's suggestion about contacting any local Cobra guys is a good next step.

Hindsight

02-12-2017, 02:57 PM

Oh wow, sorry to hear about the challenges Frank! I know there are a number of cobras running around Canada so I echo Adam's advice as well..... go over the Roadster forum, and maybe even ask around on ffcars.com as well.

Frank818

02-12-2017, 03:42 PM

This time Ben and I took the picture to prove it happened!

63911

Why not a selfie à la Trudeau?

63912

Frank818

02-12-2017, 04:11 PM

Ok after 2 really really bad nights, the dust has gone down a little and although I'm exhausted about always having these issues I stepped on it again and started working. At 30h/week on the car I better come up with something.

The rear 3rd brake light must be at 34"+ from the ground. When the 818 is at 4.25" off the ground, the top edge of the bumper is that... 34", making impossible to fit a 3rd brake light in the bumper. So Bob's idea and a 87-94 Porsche cabriolet light are so far my 2 options. I do not want a wing but if I'm forced too, I will.
The other rear lights are taken care of, will cost me another few 100 bucks and 75-100h of work but the rear lights will work the way I'm thinking my new configuration.

The fronts, I need 4 types of lights, flashers, parking, low beams and high beams. All at 15"+ except the low/high beams at 22" and guess what? At 4.75" off the ground up front, I measured 21.5" for the projectors. This is just ridiculous, this car is so damn low it causes registration issues.
I have no SAE flashers and no SAE parking lights so far. Thought I could use the low beams as DRLs but those are SAE HR and I need SAE P for parking.

I'll see what the ing. at the DMV says.

I thought of plating in another province, but that involves a lot more things than we could think. I need to rent an apartment I would re-rent so I won't pay for nothing, I need to have this address for more than 6 months every year and make it my main address, change my income tax province (maybe not a bad thing), not sure what happens with health care, then all my insurances will change too and probably a lot more I can't think of. I'm not familiar at all with inter-province living/working. And then what? I stay in 2 provinces for all my life? Cuz if I don't, I bet my entire car (the 818) that anyone coming in QC with a kit-car will need to pass inspection. The purpose of the inspection is to make sure the car is safe and complies with lightning rules (to make it safe). Someone from Indiana with a kit-car coming in QC to live why would he get a free pass and not me? These cars are not from manufacturers, a Honda in Indiana is the same as it is in QC. But not for kit-cars, the rules are per province/state, not nation-wide. I'll ask the DMV but I'm sure it's a lot of trouble and one year before I can plate a car in another province.

The Cobra guys, I know one but he plated in 2009 and in 2010 the rules changed. I could check for other ones who plated after 2010 but at this precise moment what good would it be, the Cobra doesn't have the same body panels and its a replica from the 60s, there are already dedicated places for dedicated lights (unlike the 818). The flashers don't need to be LED, they don't need to have a futuristic look, a big plain round old style SAE flasher will look great and fit great on the Cobra, but not the 818. My best guess is to confirm many things with the DMV and see from there. The inspection guy needs to take pictures of the car, including pictures of the seat mounts. So it's hard to ask the guy to let me go with the Eagle Eyes and when my case will be at the DMV they will find that suspicious looking at the pix. I'll keep the Cobras on the back burner and pull em out if I get there.

Canadian818

02-12-2017, 05:47 PM

How about a temp 3rd brake light on the roll bar? Doesn't have to be in the back, look at where it's mounted on the back of the cab on pickups.

Frank818

02-12-2017, 05:58 PM

Yes I thought of the roll bar. It will work. Got an idea of an SAE U3 light that can fit on a rolled bar without dismantling too much the looks? :) I mean there's a wire, those lights are usually square, bolting is not an option, etc...
That was my challenge this w-e, didn't find one yet but it may exist. In a few days I will know all cars' lights in the world! lolll

Pick-ups are very very very common in the Alberta west. lolll Hey I still got my humour.

This idea is still on my list, not crossed out yet. Keep it up with your rotary, man! And don't come to QC. lolll

Canadian818

02-12-2017, 06:12 PM

Haha, the only reason I'll be going to Quebec is for the Canadian Grand Prix, and maybe the strip clubs, haha. Don't worry about me, motivation level is trough the roof lately! As for your troubles, keep your head up, stay positive, vent all you like here and we'll all do our best to through ideas your way.

Frank818

02-12-2017, 06:34 PM

Yeah the strips club here are one of a kind. But what else can you do in Fort McMurray? loll I know you're not, but it's not that far.
Are you coming for the E-Grand Prix?

I actually vent through alcohol, like now, works well, but I need more drugs, those increasing serotonin (happiness). Oh right, I have to drive the 818 for that. Bummer.

Yes anyone's ideas are great! I can compare to others I have or secure some I already have, when others think the same. Like I said a few times, without this forum, there is no way I can make it, could have make (made?) it this far and could make it with the great stuff I have on the car at the moment.

frankc5r

02-12-2017, 06:35 PM

I don't have a picture right now but I used a Cadillac Seville 3rd brake light which is long and slender and I mounted
it to roll bar of one of my cars. Lots of cars have shorter ones that could work.

Frank818

02-12-2017, 06:45 PM

Canadian818

02-12-2017, 07:00 PM

Yeah the strips club here are one of a kind. But what else can you do in Fort McMurray? loll I know you're not, but it's not that far.
Are you coming for the E-Grand Prix?

It's about 5hrs north, the town itself isn't so bad, lots to do in the summer there. I have no interest in FormulaE, so little that I didn't even know they had a race here. I really want to see our Formula1 race, even more so after seeing it in Austin, Tx last year.

frankc5r

02-12-2017, 07:12 PM

I always thought of those super wide 3rd lights, probably the widest I've seen on the market. I wanted to fit one on the bumper but now I know I can't.

Seems a bit big to fit on the roll bar, how did you manage that?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-98-99-00-01-02-03-04-CADILLAC-SEVILLE-STS-SLS-LED-THIRD-BRAKE-LIGHT-F101-/162102346423

The one I used was straight leds without Cadaiilac emblem. I shorten it. The leds are mounted in groups of 4 so you can make it any length. I had to carefully cut end off, save piece, modify
pc board, then glue end back on. Probably easier to find a shorter unit. Try wander around a big parking lot and see what you can find. Good luck. I'll keep my eye open for one..

RM1SepEx

02-13-2017, 12:03 AM

Hang in there Frank, My frustration got pretty high for a while, just had to walk away and look into other solutions. My registration was easier than the books and regulations indicate here in Maine. Perhaps it's time to move? Just kidding

svanlare

02-13-2017, 12:19 AM

Not sure moving to the US is the right choice right now. We are all pulling for you to find a solution to each of the challenges. I hope 5.5 of clearance gets you what you need up front, then the big issue is really what to do for the 3rd brake light.

Frank818

02-13-2017, 11:48 AM

Perhaps it's time to move? Just kidding

Indiana's a great place. But I'd steal an american's job if I work there, Trump will hate me, so I better stay here and deal with QC's registration than deal with Trump's fury.

Not sure moving to the US is the right choice right now. We are all pulling for you to find a solution to each of the challenges. I hope 5.5 of clearance gets you what you need up front, then the big issue is really what to do for the 3rd brake light.

The 3rd brake light will be easy. 3 good solutions on the table.
Raising the car by 0.5" will make me legal up front.
The big issues are front parking/DRLs and front TS. So far these 2 lights will destroy the 818's front design (and maybe fiberglass if I need to re-do angles, height, etc.). Which is why I am currently focusing on finding those lights that would have the least impact on design. Aftermarket good design universal SAE approved LED lights are hard to come by so far, but I have to find them one day.

Mechie3

02-13-2017, 11:59 AM

Indiana's a great place. But I'd steal an american's job if I work there, Trump will hate me, so I better stay here and deal with QC's registration than deal with Trump's fury.

They're building in my neighborhood. ;)

Frank818

02-14-2017, 09:37 AM

I contacted Koni to change my suspension. I can barely make it up to 4.5" in the rear, the ring is at 3.75" from the bottom and I think max is 4", so there is a lot of preload on the springs and I have to scratch the sleeve in order to turn the ring, cuz there's too much tension on it due to the spring. Like I said a while ago Koni has a bad design here, the sleeve spins freely around the shock, making it difficult to grab. My vice is only as large as the sleeve so it doesn't grab easily. Anyway the preload is way too much and I cannot go to 4.75" ride height.

63997

Craig I don't have an F600 but I do still have an 818, which is a great passthrough ticket to live in your neighborhood.
Now where could I work...

Hindsight

02-14-2017, 09:41 AM

The spinning of the sleeve around the shock is quite annoying, though I'm not sure what other manufacturers do to combat that. I use a strap wrench (the kind you buy in the plumbing dept of a hardware store) to hold the sleeve while I turn the adjusting perch. It works OK, but not great. It's a real pain in the *** to get enough access to the strap wrench and the adjusting wrench while it's all on the car. You can get it done though. What change do you think Koni can make? Have you considered stiffer springs? I think you will need stiffer springs with the increase in weight you have back there anyway. I would suggest throwing some 500# or 600# springs back there and see where that puts you before dealing with suspension modification and customization. The springs are a common size and are cheap and easy to find. Summit racing stocks many brands of them in the proper size... cost is like $80 a pair or something if I recall correctly.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 10:04 AM

It does work with the strap up to a certain point. When it gets tighter and tighter the strap spins too. The sleeve spins even in my vice, I have to hit the adjusting wrench with sharp short hits with a rubber hammer, only way I can make that far up on the sleeve.

The changes I think Koni can make is providing a balanced suspension build for my weight configuration, just like they did with the 02-07 drivetrain. "Koni, just do the same job with different weights." Yes I will provide them with my corner weights and axle weights so they will have data to work with.

Stiffer springs may require different shock damping too. That's what I want them to tell me, I told them I want the same ride as the normal 818S but considering my different weights.

If they tell me I can change just the springs and no need to change damping, then yeah I'll do that. 600 are too much, I had 600 up front my Corrado so I don't think those are soft enough in the rear of the 818, which is lighter. My guess is around 500, maybe it could work at 350-400. For 80 bucks a pair I can try 2-3 different sets, HA! Do you think after my costly build I am 100-200 bucks short? lollll

BTW I will have to change front springs too I guess. Are there many lbs available or they sell 275, then the next one is 350, then the next is 500 and next 600? Can I find 400-450 too?

Tnx for pointing out Summit on the springs, I'll see that Koni comes back with.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 10:08 AM

I answered my own question, there are many lbs available, maybe not in the right size though.

Jeff do you know by heart the length, ID and OD of both rear and front springs?

Canadian818

02-14-2017, 10:19 AM

Make a bracket that bolts in the holes and has a hole an inch or two lower to temporarily mount your assemble for registration

Frank818

02-14-2017, 10:25 AM

For once it's not for registration. :) It's for me and the car, I can't adjust corner weights properly cuz I lack adjustment on the rear susp. Plus I cannot imagine my added weight and a heavily preloaded spring will drive nicely. If it's still too soft the way it is now, it will rub on the inside of the fenders. Swapping springs is so damn easy compared to everything else and cost is low, I will give it a try. If I don't have timebefore registration, that won't hurt registration.

Canadian818

02-14-2017, 10:34 AM

What springs are back there now?

Frank818

02-14-2017, 11:08 AM

Jeff, something's wrong. The springs are 8" long but at Summit all their 8" long are 3.5" OD and I measured 3.25" OD. As for the ID I measured 2.33-2.4" but at Summit they have 2.25" and 2.625". Maybe they are 2.25" but I'm still 0.25 off on the OD, maybe it's not that much?

At the back they are Koni's 275lbs.

Canadian818

02-14-2017, 11:40 AM

You definitely need stiffer springs. I got 500# springs. I ordered 8"x2.5" ID, they fit a little loose on the collar. Try to find a 2.375" ID.

Hindsight

02-14-2017, 11:41 AM

Frank, generally springs are spec'd out as IDxLength. The FFR springs ID is 2.5" and the length is 8". Someone once told me the springs are 10" but all mine measured out at 8" so I'm pretty sure whoever said that was mistaken.

Here you go (all Eibach springs from Summit that are 2.5x8):
https://www.summitracing.com/search/department/chassis-suspension/section/suspension-components/part-type/coil-over-springs/brand/eibach/coil-over-spring-inside-diameter-in/2-500-in/coil-over-spring-length-in/8-000-in?N=4294951552%2B4294951551%2B4294919849%2B400280 %2B4294907767%2B4294919648&SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending

Frank818

02-14-2017, 11:56 AM

Yeah the 2.5s at Summit are not listed in order, I read 2.25 and then it was going to 2.625 but on top of 2.25 there is 2.5, yes. DOH!

Adam, they do fit a little loose but that's not a problem.

Now it's a matter of which rates should I try... If I provide here my corner weights, would someone have a guess at which rates I should try first?

I just want to provide again the procedure to adjust the YELLOW 8225 series shocks:
Adjustment Procedure 76, 80, 82, 86, 87, 88, 90, 8040, 8240 Series

https://www.koni.com/CorporateSite/media/itt/PageMedia/Cars/Technology/Fig-2a.jpg

Rebound Adjustment Procedures

Remove the shock absorber from the vehicle and hold it vertically with the lower eye or pin attached in a vise. Use clamp plates to prevent damage.
Fully collapse the shock absorber, at the same time turning the dust cap or piston rod slowly to the left (counterclockwise), until it is felt that the cams of the adjustment nut engage in the recesses of the foot valve assembly.
Some shock absorbers include a bump rubber concealed under the dust cover and it must be removed prior to adjusting.
The damper may have already been adjusted. Therefore check whether the shock absorber is in the adjustment position or not by keeping it collapsed and gently turning it further to the left counting at the same time the half turns until a stop is felt. Stop turning then and do not use force.
Keeping the shock absorber collapsed, make 1 half turn (180 degrees) to the right (clockwise). In case of prior adjustment add the number of half the turns previously found. The total range is about 5 half turns.
Pull the shock absorber out vertically without turning for at least 1 cm to disengage the adjusting mechanism. The dust cap or piston rod may now be turned freely.

Rebound Adjustment Direction:
Clockwise: Firmer
Counter Clockwise: Softer

Hindsight

02-14-2017, 12:26 PM

What % heavier is your VR6 setup vs the EJ setup, including all frame mods etc? You could add that much % to the stock spring specs and start with that.

Alternately, we know that Chad ran 600# rear springs, and the R's normally run 500# rear springs. So at the very least, you could start there. I know that when I put my 500# rear springs on, I had to back WAY off on the height adjustment to get it to sit at the correct height (as expected). I'd probably just start off with 500# springs.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 01:12 PM

Well let's see...

6400464005

Those aren't the final numbers and some light parts have not been installed (splash guards and splitter+diffuser+headlights) or filled with water (AWIC hoses, although they run on both sides), but I have added a little more weight to compensate.

(took 1286 posts to get here lolll)

Frank818

02-14-2017, 01:16 PM

I haven't checked the numbers myself yet!! lolll

Let me analyze... 62/38!! Yes! I thought I'd get 65/35 or worse. Not bad.

990kgs!! Under 1000!! Yes sir!!

Wow, left and right weights are the same! Now that's awesome. Except that I have 135lbs more on the LF and 130lbs more on the RR. I wonder how it'll pan (span?) out with me in it. I knew the RR would be heavier, manifold, turbo, exhaust...

How do I read the CROSS line again? Needs to be as close to 50%, right?
43.8 is bad but a slight change in suspension height changes weights a lot.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 01:29 PM

What % heavier is your VR6 setup vs the EJ setup, including all frame mods etc?

According to this:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10507-And-it-begins-quot-The-Flash-quot-Build-Thread&p=149771&viewfull=1#post149771

It's 100lbs heavier, with 8gals of gas less. I have no gas, forgot about that. 8 gals would bring it to 2233, so only 150lbs more than the EJ setup (guess is 50lbs on the gearbox, 105vs155, and 100lbs on the engine, 350vs450 or something similar). Although I got a SERIOUS cross problem.

Interesting, I am 40lbs lighter up front although I have a 25pounds AWIC tank/pump. Not sure what Erik had up front, AC, radio, wheels, tires...

Frank818

02-14-2017, 01:47 PM

So Jeff, based on that I thought I could up from 275 to 350 in the rear but since I have 140lbs more in the back, let's add another 50lbs to the springs, so I could try with 400lbs?

At the front, since I am lighter by more than 50lbs I could keep the 350. Yes there will be more weight trsf from the back than you but I start off lighter.

F350, R400, does my reasoning makes sense?
I could also buy a set of 500 with the 400 to save on ridiculous shipping costs and if the 400 are too soft, I put 500 in the back and 400 up front?

Hindsight

02-14-2017, 01:51 PM

Yes that makes sense but the 275# rears are quite soft to begin with. I'd go straight to 500# rears. Leave the fronts as-is.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 02:09 PM

Yes that makes sense but the 275# rears are quite soft to begin with. I'd go straight to 500# rears. Leave the fronts as-is.

They are soft? Even for street driving?

Did you run your 500 on the street?

STiPWRD

02-14-2017, 03:35 PM

Would putting on the old front end with the camry headlights work for passing registration? Then you could switch back to the new front end. Also, are all of these requirements solely for the initial registration or will you be expected to pass them every year? If so, have you checked with a local inspection station whether they actually inspect for all of these requirements?

If all else fails you can just register in Montana like Aloha did.

Hindsight

02-14-2017, 03:44 PM

They are soft? Even for street driving?

Did you run your 500 on the street?

The 275# rears are soft, even for street driving. They work well on the 818 by being very cushy, and also allowing a lot of weight transfer to the back to help with traction under acceleration. I was shocked at how nice the ride was on the 275# rears. I now have 500# rears. It is definitely stiff, but not uncomfortably so (IMHO - others may find it too stiff). But you have to remember, you can't compare your setup to mine because a 500# rear spring on my 818 is going to feel different from a 500# spring on your 818 because you have extra weight. The extra weight will work with the stiffer springs in such a way that it will feel smoother on your car than on mine. That's my opinion anyway.

Frank818

02-14-2017, 04:59 PM

STI, all this is for a ONE time inspection. I sold my entire front end to Frank (Pearldrummer) last Oct and both my camry headlights (FFR's and spyder double halos) a year ago after receiving the new nose. Otherwise YES that would have solved ALL of the front end issues (which are the most complex at the moment). I don't know if I can register in a different Country... will have to check.

In the meantime Porsche called back and they cannot trace back the VIN based on any part serial number. Nice. All my money and 2500h of work now lay in the hands of the cop who will check my car for stolen parts. A by-the-book one and I'm dead. Not cuz I stole the gearbox, I didn't, but cuz I cannot prove I didn't. Then by default the part is considered stolen, so if I sell it back I by conscience sell a stolen part. Doesn't make sense.

Jeff, I do need the *** to drop under accel, otherwise it will spin freely all the time. If for you 500s are stiff on your pool table's roads, then I'd rather try 450s first. We need smoother than normal springs on our roads here. There are stiff cars that can be driven smoothly in US but feel harsh around here. I also have to take that in the equation. I will order 450s.

I have to update my corner weights, my jack was still SLIGHTLY jacking the front. DOH! I found out that about 1/4 of a turn on the OEM Subaru jack equals to 20lbs up front. That is huge. But in the end the difference is negligible for springs. I think I'm at 2182lbs.

Bob_n_Cincy

02-14-2017, 08:15 PM

Frank,
I have run 275, 500, & 600 in the rear.

When I ran the 275 I got a lot of body roll.
When I ran 600 it was stiffer. No preload was needed. Problem was that the spring comes out of the top perch when the inside wheel on a high g turn gets unloaded. I added tender springs to prevent this.
I am now running 4.5 RH with occupants and 500 w/tender springs. with 1' shock extensions.
Below is a picture of my rear shocks. I am not running the dark blue bump stops shown in the drawing.
Bob

64016 64017 64018

Canadian818

02-14-2017, 11:01 PM

Bob_n_Cincy

02-15-2017, 12:44 AM

Why the extensions Bob? The tender springs are a good idea, I noticed when adjusting ride height that the wheel doesn't need much weight off it for the spring to be loose.

At 4.5 RH in a hard turn, inside shocks would be full extension. I add the extension so they are at mid travel at RH.

It was a self inflected problem. My wider track width in the front cause the need for longer shocks.
In the rear I am only running 25" diameter tires, so a little longer was necessary.
Bob

Canadian818

02-15-2017, 01:50 AM

At 4.5 RH in a hard turn, inside shocks would be full extension. I add the extension so they are at mid travel at RH.

It was a self inflected problem. My wider track width in the front cause the need for longer shocks.
In the rear I am only running 25" diameter tires, so a little longer was necessary.
Bob

Interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on this. I'm running quite a bit wider track width up front and 25" tall tires, rears are 26".

Bob_n_Cincy

02-15-2017, 03:13 AM

Interesting, I'll have to keep an eye on this. I'm running quite a bit wider track width up front and 25" tall tires, rears are 26".

How did you widen your track width? I move my LCA to the wagon holes. Which was 20mm per side on early frames. FFR changed it to only 10 mm per side on 2nd gen frames.
Bob
Sorry for the hijack frank.

Frank818

02-15-2017, 06:01 AM

That is interesting. I can achieve 4.5 or 4.75" RH up front without getting the spring loose. Any 1/8s lower and the spring gets off when I jack the front. I might get off without tender springs there but I'll keep the idea hell yeah! Cuz I got no pre-load up front right now and I'm not sure that's good.

As for the back, with 150lbs more than Subaru I am hoping the 450s will not get off at full jack extension. That's another reason why I went with 450s now and not 500. Now if I do need tender springs that's ok, I'll get some. Where did you buy yours?

I also emailed Montana's DMV to see if they can register cars from outside USA (I'd be VERY surprised, but it only cost me 2mins of my life for asking).

RM1SepEx

02-15-2017, 06:46 AM

I was thinking a different part of Canada?

STiPWRD

02-15-2017, 08:26 AM

Frank, are there any builders in your area with the old front end that would let you borrow it for inspection? Regarding the gearbox, does the car need to drive when the inspector comes? You could just buy a blown gearbox (with a serial number of coarse) for cheap and install it to get through the inspection, then just sell it. You could also do this with a new gear box and sell it afterwards since this is only a one time inspection.

Frank818

02-15-2017, 08:54 AM

A lot of posts here lately, I appreciate your time investment guys, it helps me a lot trying something out to solve this registration issue.

I was thinking a different part of Canada?

Sorry about what? Montana? Different part of Canada has the problem of living more than 6 months per year every year in that other part. Aloha has not step foot in Montana and seems able to keep its plate anyway, so I'm trying it out. Of course if it works then would QC allow it and what happens with the insurances, but one step at a time. :)

Frank, are there any builders in your area with the old front end that would let you borrow it for inspection? Regarding the gearbox, does the car need to drive when the inspector comes? You could just buy a blown gearbox (with a serial number of coarse) for cheap and install it to get through the inspection, then just sell it. You could also do this with a new gear box and sell it afterwards since this is only a one time inspection.

I know one builder with the old front end, I'm trying to reach him out for the past year and recently again (1-2 weeks ago) but no answer. It's also risky, cuz the inspection takes pix of the car and creates a case with that. Once approved, they send me the case with pix and I need to keep that with me all the time, if a policeman pulls me over I have to show him the case. If the front end is totally different, it's possible he will put the car on the towing right away. I do not know the rules enough here.

No the car doesn't need to drive when the police comes to check the parts. I am trying to find a G50 with a VIN. Already hard to find a G50, one with a VIN will be harder and a blown one with VIN even harder, but yes all that is on the way. :) I will not even swap gearboxes, unless the police asks me to prove the link between the VIN and gearbox. Then I just get the Certificate of Authenticity from Porsche for that say blown G50 and I'll try not to swap again. If the policeman really checks on the serial number on the gearbox, now yeah I have to swap. But I doubt it will go that far, unless the guy is really suspicious. Most builders don't get asked for invoices. If I show my huge pile of invoices, showing that I did my job of keeping trace of my parts, he may just want a proof where the engine comes from without looking at the VIN, like most builders. So I could get away for the gearbox too, but I need plan B, C and D just in case, cuz I CANNOT FAIL. Which is why I appreciate a lot all the ideas thrown here!

STI definately my last plan is to find whatever G50 SHORT casing (long doesn't fit, unless plan F I use my short casing with internals and only swap on the middle casing which carries the serial number) with a VIN, blown or not. This plan will work. Much more money, maybe a lot more efforts if I need to swap gearboxes, a lot of time elapsed, but it will work. The worst part is not money or efforts, it's elapsed time finding that one of a kind gearbox. :( I could wait a year, who knows...

Canadian818

02-15-2017, 11:02 AM

That whole 6 month rule isn't true Frank, that just applies to where you do your taxes. Let's say you have a sister in Ontario that you visit quite often, or you have a sencond home there because 20% of your work is there, or you have a cabin by the lake in BC. If you left a vehicle there for when your visiting, you wouldn't have to register it in Quebec. It's all about where the car spends most of its time, and how are they going to prove otherwise? Say you brought it back to Quebec to do some work on it if you get pulled over. Just a thought.

Frank818

02-15-2017, 01:46 PM

Good if it's not true, but it's quite similar to "spends most of its time", which means over half of the time (6 months). lolll I know what you mean, don't worry.
All in all I'd need an address outside QC that I could rely on for the rest of my car's life. I have no relatives outside QC to base a valid story on.

Just got some answers from the DMV, he will answer most tomorrow, but one thing he told me out of nowhere as an example, is that I need door lockers. I'm screwed again. This was not written in the documentation. Not sure I kept the donor's locking system and even if I did, door lockers are totally useless on such a car, I'm curious to see his valid reason for that. In the end I'll probably have to find something that locks the doors. I have only received one answer from the DMV so far and I already have to add a few months to my build (G50 and SAE things). I don't think it's going to get plated in 2017 if it continues like this. I need to be realistic.

02-15-2017, 06:48 PM

Did you think about elec. pop up door

Frank818

02-15-2017, 06:53 PM

Oui j'y ai oups, sorry, yeah I did, today. I did not search for any of this yet but those are on the list if I can't re-use the OEM lock mechanism. I don't think anyone here uses it.
You have a brand or model in mind or just the idea of the electric locking doors?

aquillen

02-15-2017, 07:50 PM

I have a new 3rd tail light off my 2014 Dodge Charger, was on the car for about a week. I upgraded to a factory backup camera, which has the lens in the light, so ended up with this "spare".

Your objection may be it has a push button switch built in - used to unlock the electric trunk. But if you could come up with a reason to use it, switch and all you are welcome to it.

It is clearly printed SAE.

The visible part is about 23 x 3.5 cm.

You could probably fab trim ring to cover the switch and same amount on the other side, etc.

Here is a picture, then just look up the part for more info.64050

Frank818

02-16-2017, 08:47 AM

I'll keep your charger light on my list. Once I get clear info of what I need to do I'll see which solution will suits best.

In the meantime I am seriously working my way around the Montana loop-hole registration. Since I am in Canada, I have to validate a few more things, don't want to get lawsuits or being sued cuz I'm a foreigner and different rules would apply to me.

AZPete

02-16-2017, 10:29 AM

I did not search for any of this yet but those are on the list if I can't re-use the OEM lock mechanism. I don't think anyone here uses it.

Frank, I am using the OEM power locks. I thought I had posted something but after a search I guess I forgot. Now I've started a thread in the Body section called Power Door Locks.
Cheap and easy if you have the donor actuators.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23500-Power-door-locks

Frank818

02-16-2017, 11:45 AM

Got more info on the Montana legal loop-hole. Adam it might interest you about a TC rule (although you don't care cuz you can plate yours easy in AB).

The LLC thing seems to be a very great plan for people in the US and it's really cheap. FFR's "VIN" is used, no inspection whatsoever (can plate it before completion like Indiana) and you get your plate through Fedex. Yearly renewal is even easier.

For Canadians however there are other things to take into account. I do not know the legal risks of that thing yet, I do not know about insurances but let's say all this is perfect as it is in US. Then what's the future?

Well the car would be plated in Montana and in Canada you cannot import a kit-car at all. IF the car is less than 15yo. If the kit-car is 15yo+, you can!
So my 818 would be plated in Montana for 15years (2029) or forever if I can't fix the DMV rules. Once I fix the DMV things after 15years, I can import the car and it needs to go through the same inspection it would right now. Plus of course there are other rules to comply to to get the car imported in the first place. Forms, paperwork and stuff like that.

So that's a huge decision here. If I jump into the Montana twist, I am forced to stay in for 15 years. That'd give me 15 years to fix the DMV but rules change with time and I may be forced to comply to more rules or stricker rules in 15 years. Or worse, within 15years they could change the import rule and say that all kit-cars no matter its age cannot be imported. What a rip off.

For a Canadian, it's really a huge decision to think about.

As you can see guys, here in QC everything is built to prevent kit-cars from rolling onto the roads, even tough our kits are 100s of time safer than a Tercel with rust holes through the chassis, broken wipers, opaque headlight lenses, worn out tires and a fallen muffler. Those are allowed to roll and police doesn't anything about them.
I built my kit to be safe, I do not want anything to happen to it. A single man in his garage needs to comply to many of the same rules as manufacturers investing 100s of millions a year into it. That is way unfair. :( But I understand they want to maximize safety. The expense for us is high, that's all.

Frank818

02-16-2017, 01:32 PM

Ok got the introductory letter from the legal firm in Montana, they specialize in registering vehicles. It's a very promising approach, I think many US citizens could benefit from it.

I also did a search through the QC rules and here's what I found:

Vehicles registered outside QC by non-residents (would be in Montana, owned by an LLC corporation in Montana, therefore non-QC resident, yes I fall into that)
For a passenger vehicle (yes that's the 818), the non-resident (LLC) has a.... SIX months exemption!

If the car is in QC for longer than 6 months, that non-resident is required to register the car in QC!! And because a kit-car cannot be imported to Canada if it's less than 15yo, I'd be stuck with the car in my garage for 14.5years! (or forever if they change rules)

I have NO choice but to go through the extensive QC DMV inspection. If I need to cut and heavily modify the front end in order to make place for some SAE lights, I have no choice but to do so, even if it costs me 30k to fit those 4 lights (2 parking/drl and 2 TS). It's hard to find anything positive here and keep up to the pace.

Frank818

02-17-2017, 11:42 AM

Notes for self that I'll trsf to the Registration sub-forum once all is clear:

Only for lights
- 15 different lights required
- 9 different SAE rules
- 3 different minimum heights required to follow: 15" for reflectors and lights, 22" for SAE HR Hella projectors and 34" for 3rd brake light
- 818 front end not designed for SAE lights (plus nose insert is under 15" can't fit lights there)
- 818 rear end can be worked out and re-configured
- All 4 side markes can fit if proper ones are bought
- 3rd brake light only gives 2 options due to the 34" height
- FFR respects out of the box 5 of the 15 lights
- 1 is extremely complicated to find (front SAE I turn signals. After almost 10h of search I found none)
- 1 is very hard to find (front SAE P DRLs. Found 2 or 3 potential ones, although how much reconfiguration of the front end is required to fit them is yet unknown)

FFR is advised of the issue as of Feb 17 2017. Got a reply, discussion on the way.

Canadian818

02-17-2017, 11:57 AM

How about retrofitting some pop ups?

Frank818

02-17-2017, 12:02 PM

Come again?

Canadian818

02-17-2017, 12:05 PM

Pop up headlights, like Miata, rx7, 240sx, etc. Isn't headlight height an issue for you?

STiPWRD

02-17-2017, 12:11 PM

I have NO choice but to go through the extensive QC DMV inspection. If I need to cut and heavily modify the front end in order to make place for some SAE lights, I have no choice but to do so, even if it costs me 30k to fit those 4 lights (2 parking/drl and 2 TS). It's hard to find anything positive here and keep up to the pace.
Frank, before you start heavily modifying things, I'd suggest contacting a few inspection stations and seeing if they actually require compliance with all of these same regulations. If all of these requirements are for a one time (initial) inspection, you could make most of these modifications temporary.

Frank818

02-17-2017, 12:24 PM

Pop ups would be quite a modification to do and would trash entirely the awesome FFR headlights, but if I come to that then yes, as long as they have TS in them, otherwise I'm in the same issue as of now. I'd have DRLs but I think for those there is a less heavy way of doing it. Besides lights from the 90s won't work cuz back then the low beams were used as DRLs, but now the rule uses less powerful lights as DRLs and the low beams aren't on. I'll keep the pop-ups as an option.

I have seen the checklist the inspection stations use and in annex there are the 9 SAE rules associated with the 15 types of lights. They have to check them all and report the result to the DMV. I have sent pix of the car to the DMV guy, he asked for some, so he now knows my headlights. If I pass inspection with my headlights, he'll see the pix of the FFR headlights and since I am the only one with an 818, if he sees the inspection pix are the same as those I sent him but that the inspector said they are SAE compliant, I'm screwed.
The inspection takes pix of about 20 items on the car, some I don't even know where they are (like the engine's serial number).

STiPWRD

02-17-2017, 01:12 PM

Inspection stations in QC actually take pictures of the car when they do the inspections? I've never heard of anything like that. I can understand the initial inspection taking some photos but a typical yearly inspection at a neighborhood gas station would just have a check list and if you pass, you get a sticker, right? I guess the temporary lights could be used for that as well. But I think you mentioned something about keeping a binder of photos in the car at all times if you got pulled over? Is that right? That just seems overly strict.

Frank818

02-17-2017, 01:33 PM

You don't want to know the checklist, my friend. Just for pix, seat mounts, interior, exterior, engine serial (I don't find mine), gearbox serial, all lights, fuel tank (good luck!!), wheels, tires, seat belts, braking system, axles, steering rack/column, etc...

We do not have yearly inspection. We have no emission tests, no air bag rules, and some bumper rules that I'm not yet aware of. Everything else is basically the same rules as the multi-bilionnaire manufacturers.

Yes that binder of photos is the case document the DMV will send me back and it will state that the car that is shown in the pix is what they approved, with serial numbers of parts for tracing. If my car is pulled over and say my headlights aren't matching the pix, the cop can impound the car right away.

It is hell I tell ya. I don't think there is stricker in north america and if there is elsewhere in the world, I would like to know.

Frank818

02-17-2017, 05:26 PM

Bob_n_Cincy

02-17-2017, 05:59 PM

Guys, while Dan at FFR is trying to help, I have a guessing game for you (what's the english expression?).

If you think of a front amber side marker that is either round, square or rectangle (not angled), what car would it come from?
Jeep.

64148

These meets DOT FMVSS 108
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/round-marker-lamps/round-led-truck-and-trailer-lights-w-grommet-34-pc-rated-led-side-clearance-light-w-3-high-flux-leds-pigtail-connector/1982/

Frank818

02-17-2017, 06:16 PM

Good one Bob! I'll search on these and try to get physical dimensions.

Any others are welcomed, I will never have a too short list to look into. My intention is to use an amber front side marker as a front parking/DRL light. Then I disconnect the 12v from it after inspection but still keep the light installed.

In the meantime I got answers from the DMV. The 34" for the 3rd brake light was wrong, he said there was a mistake in the doc. Good news is I can fit any SAE U3 3rd brake light as long as it's higher than the brake lights (which is not a problem cuz I can't fit one lower anyway cuz of my exhaust tip).
At the front he told me how to test the Eagle Eyes and see if they pass the SAE standard. It's what I thought, the standard is mostly for how much light is emitted out of the lamp. QC doesn't like lights that could dazzle people, I guess. If they emit too much, I could probably put a resistance inline and lower the voltage which will lower the emitted light. If they don't emit enough, now that's a problem. At 9w each compared to SAE DRLs which I see around 6w, I think I have a chance.

02-17-2017, 07:05 PM

818 C 64150front light

Frank818

02-17-2017, 07:17 PM

Sounds like a good plan. I found one!!!

64151

Now I need a second one...

frankc5r

02-17-2017, 08:01 PM

Good one Bob! I'll search on these and try to get physical dimensions.

Any others are welcomed, I will never have a too short list to look into. My intention is to use an amber front side marker as a front parking/DRL light. Then I disconnect the 12v from it after inspection but still keep the light installed.

In the meantime I got answers from the DMV. The 34" for the 3rd brake light was wrong, he said there was a mistake in the doc. Ok, so even those that come directly from the engineer have mistakes. How am I supposed to work around that. Good news is I can fit any SAE U3 3rd brake light as long as it's higher than the brake lights (which is not a problem cuz I can't fit one lower anyway cuz of my exhaust tip).
At the front he told me how to test the Eagle Eyes and see if they pass the SAE standard. It's what I thought, the standard is mostly for how much light is emitted out of the lamp. QC is a freak about lights that could dazzle people, I guess. If they emit too much, I could probably put a resistance inline and lower the voltage which will lower the emitted light. If they don't emit enough, now that's a problem. At 9w each compared to SAE DRLs which I see around 6w, I think I have a chance.

The Eagle eyes are no where near the advertised 9 watts.. To give the sellers some credit they may mean as bright as a regular, non led, bulb. Thr EE draw about 1/4 watt each from my test at 13.8 volts

Frank818

02-18-2017, 07:03 PM

That's ok 9iw (9 incandescent watts), all 4 makes it up to 36iw, I compare with one bulb at 5iw. I think I have good chances to be over powered, which will make things so easy to throttle back and spot on with regulation.

The Other Frank and Art, I plan on measuring the light intensity using lux instead of cd/m2 (those latter instruments cost few 1000s). I know I will measure illuminance instead of luminance, but the relation is quite direct and proportional. There is also a conversion formula possible. My methodology will be to use a lux meter and measure, in a dark room, a known SAE compliant parking light and then TS. I will measure at the distances and angles required by the SAE rules. I will do that 3 times to get 3 readings and average out. Then I will do the same with my Eagle Eyes and compare the results. If say I get 50k lux with the EE and 40k with the SAE compliant lamp, I will know the EE are 25% more powerful. I will then use the proper resistance to throttle down the emitted light of the EE, equaling the SAE lamp. All readings/tests will be done 3 times and averaged out.

Do you think that is a valid methodology?

Now I need to find the precise requirements for SAE, I remember seeing a table with cd/m2 at certain angles and distances but DAMN I searched on my different browsers' history and I can't find it again. On the SAE website it's so complex to find something I failed again there. The FMVSS 108 rules does not mention these details so I can't use that.
Any chance you guys know where to find DOT/SAE rules' specs?

I also got my 450lbs springs and installed one. A little larger so it's very close on the camber link, but boy what a difference for height adjustment!! Barely some pre-load and I reach 4-5/8" ride height, I have great expectations for these springs.

Frank818

02-19-2017, 06:59 PM

64228

I need to do some suspension adjustment, I have 2mm clearance between the coil and camber link. I need 5mm+ as per regulations (yeah some more!). Not sure if I can push back the wheel without disrupting too much the alignment, I will need to realign but I don't know if it will realign within specs.

Do you guys know if the front of the car can reach and keep 5.75" ride height for a 15mins drive, twice?

Canadian818

02-19-2017, 07:34 PM

I'd suggest different spacers, moving the arm forward and not adjusting your alignment at all. If it's just for the inspection, perhaps just put both spacers on one side. As for ride height, it shouldn't be a problem, however ideal camber/caster could be difficult to get, but not an issue for your temp situation.

Frank818

02-20-2017, 08:54 AM

Dan, Rubicon's side markers are a good idea, but they're too big. :( I can't figure out how to fit them up front, something like 2.5" if not 3". I'm trying to deal the DMV and accept some SAE P2 lights instead of SAE P. That would give me the opportunity to use 3/4"-1" round lights. Hopefully I win, that'd take care of the parking lights. Turn signals are still unknown yet.

BTW FFR's front yellow side markers are SAE A/P2, our regulation requires SAE A/P, again I'll try to have the DMV accept SAE A/P2 so I can have a wider access to those lights. Truck and trailer lights are big, so they're hard to fit on the 818.

Adam yeah I moved the spacers on one end and only on the spring side too, I'm just concerned that the rod end will squeeze on the IFS bracket on up movement, the rod end twists just a little cuz it hits on the bracket without the spacer on one end. The brackets are not fully 90-deg upwards. I have to remove the shock and test it.

Frank818

02-20-2017, 12:25 PM

Oh crap, everyone in my work group (about 70+ people) are now aware I'm building an 818. They all want pix, vids and rides (ok but only for girls). There won't be another year before I fix the DMV, I have to roll this summer, it is now an obligation or else I'll get fired for not doing my job. :)

flynntuna

02-20-2017, 01:52 PM

Does this mean you will have to spend more time working than posting on the forum? :rolleyes:

Frank818

02-20-2017, 02:03 PM

I already do. The forum is a mean for me to search for parts, tricks, ideas. It's essential. I cannot finish the car without the forum.

choobs

03-04-2017, 05:03 PM

Yo Frank! Haven't stopped in for a while, the car is coming together really nice! Love that flip forward hood hinge setup

I may have missed the lighting setup for your DRLs/TurnSignal/DRLs switching. What did you use here? Something microprocessor based? double pole relays?

Frank818

03-04-2017, 06:17 PM

The hood hinges are made by Craig Mechie3 (ZeroDecibelMotorsports). They did not clear the nose insert, was slightly rubbing when opening so I had to trim a lot the front of the hood. Maybe the location of my brackets weren't optimal, I don't know. Now it's fine. Very very close but doesn't rub. If it does, I won't pass inspection, so I gotta do it right!

The front lights will change, they are not SAE/DOT/ECE or JISK approved. I was able to get the white lights approved with some photometric analysis (yeah I had to learn that!) but the TS are 5 to 10 times less bright than they should. I'm pretty sure they can't be seen much under sunlight and they can't be seen at 80-deg outwards cuz the headlight buckets are very badly designed for that. I need to find some "SAE I" approved TS that will fit this non-SAE designed front end. I might have found an opening after 80h searching.

Otherwise they were just Eagle Eyes round lights that can be found anywhere (amazon, ebay, aliexpress and whatnots). The switchback was taken from a tube light that came with it and fortunately I can solder 3 Eagle Eyes into one switchback driver. So no, no microprocessor, but some resistors, MOSFET and stuff like that. Chinese made I didn't make them. However FRANKC5R has built some drivers for his Eagle Eyes.

No relays.

Frank818

03-09-2017, 12:51 PM

Tow hooks are not allowed if in an unsafe location.
Any weld that can affect force distributions on the frame may well require welding seam certification.

EDIT: Because FFR is not heat treating its frame, so that it's probably around 36,000psi for the metal they use, it's not required to certify the welds, except if it's something important like seat belts (and probably engine mounts). But for seats it's not required, the seat belt protects you one way and the rear FW protects you the other way, doesn't matter if the welds breaks in this case.

BUT, if the welds don't look good, like it was the case for me (I didn't weld it), they will ask to re-do the welds.

When high strength metal is used, like 120,000psi, welding may affect the treatment and must well be certified to be free of porosity.

Mechie3

03-09-2017, 04:27 PM

They're still building in my neighborhood. ;)

Frank818

03-09-2017, 04:34 PM

They're still building in my neighborhood. ;)

I just need a place to work, then. :) What website is good to list jobs in IN?

Mechie3

03-09-2017, 04:51 PM

I don't even know what you do. Monster.com? Linkedin? I haven't looked for a job since I moved here in 2009. There is a mechanical engineer position open where I work.

Frank818

03-09-2017, 05:16 PM

loll, I can do a bunch of stuff man, even photometric tests! lolll I'll take a look on Monster, we never know. However IN seems cold, I won't gain much from QC, my best guess is to be south IN, but hey maybe it's worth it. Would certainly costs a lot but if I can find something well paid for what I can do, why not? I don't think my job is much common on the States, I'll look.

Frank818

03-09-2017, 06:29 PM

Well how interesting Craig, on Monster (I didn't know it still exists, been 13 years without searching for a job) I found many open positions for exactly what I do now. Mainly in Indianapolis of course. However I don't think I'm authorized to work in US at the moment and I have no idea what to do to be accepted by Trump.

Sorry I can't buy your new awesome front fender louvers, I already glassed my McMaster fasteners and have so much more work. Right, if I move I could buy your louvers!

aquillen

03-10-2017, 09:16 AM

About the switchbacks. If you like, pm me, I'll send you a couple of the ones I've cooked up. I've given a few away, not many and as long as it's just a pair now and then I'll keep that up. Also sent out to a couple guys a "parts kit" if they want to do the soldering. Just a pay-it-forward deal. Given your headaches, this could remove one from your list.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23062-Build-your-own-switchback-turn-running-flasher-controllers

My jaw drops another notch every time you mention another regulation - one wonders who is designing cars up your way - manufacturers or the gov ? Here we mostly fret over how to do something, you are dealing with roadblocks at every corner - kudos to you for sticking it out.

I recall visiting a friend who moved from Indiana to Nova Scotia a few years back, describing they couldn't even replace a duplex outlet in their home - had to have licensed electrical contractor do it. Good lord people. I know how things come to that and why, but in many ways it is a sad predicament.

Frank818

03-10-2017, 02:08 PM

I've edited post #1336, DMV changed mind a little bit.

We do have that same electrical stuff for homes, only certified electricians at CAD$100-150 an hour can do electrical stuff in houses.

Frank818

03-11-2017, 06:31 PM

These welds, on the passenger's side, were rejected by the DMV. (along with the brackets!! read below)
Which means the ones on the driver's side are as well.

64950

My mech did them, but I remember passing over them too, maybe I shouldn't have.

However, I have started the process to get all my frame welds certified. I am waiting for the welder to call me back and schedule a time. I want to know which welds are good and which ones are problematic. If those of the engine are, then hopefully the welder can redo them without removing the engine. Yes, it can still go very far in all the hassles I've been through so far.

For QC guys, if you weld, make sure your welds are AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to those of FFR's. Otherwise they might be rejected or asked for certification.

Also on the above pic, both sides' seat brackets got rejected cuz the bolts act as a pivot. I will weld (!!) a flat bar on the LF to LR brackets and RF to RR brackets, that way they won't move. But my welds need to be perfect. Or someone will do them for me. Just more time spent.

So the DMV asked me to redo the welds on the flat bars (32 welds).

Important for QC guys, I sent the DMV pix of the seat belts installation. If they aren't satisfied with that, I'm out of ideas, cuz these don't have 50 places to be bolted to and apparently you cannot bolt them on a bracket. Which means the higher your seat is, the harder to buckle up it will be, cuz the button side belt section (the section with red button to un-buckle) is about 10" long and it's not a cable, it's a belt, so you need a way to keep it up at reach.
Compare your solution to mine and read later if I got approved or rejected, that way you'll know the limitations.

649516495264953649546495564956

Speaking of limitations, this VR6 turbo build in QC makes me test a lot of DMV rules, so that might help you knowing when to stop on your own build.

Oh BTW, the engine START and STOP functions need to be accessible all the time. Don't use those functions on a tablet/screen, unless the screen remains in the car and starts up when you give juice to the car.

Frank818

03-11-2017, 07:07 PM

I'm sure the DMV will reject my wiper install. Not solid enough. Working on it.
They will also reject the washer fluid, too clumsy. Since it's very difficult to aim right, I bought this:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11400.m1842.l5919/7?euid=def1e6bab0ab40ac9c5fa8db84fec086&bu=43396158564&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fvod%3Ftransi d%3D1725359373011%26itemid%3D322429333717%26qu%3D1&sojTags=bu=bu

I will also not install my awic water tank, too close to wiper motor arm and it blocks access to the battery. I will bypass using just a hose.

Canadian818

03-11-2017, 08:11 PM

Damn Frank, one headache after another! Keep your head up, eventually they will be sick of you and just pass you, hopefully anyway. Your starting to make me worried, I really want to get my car registered ASAP before any laws change. Fortunately there's a few registered in Alberta and they didn't have much trouble, but you never know.

Frank818

03-12-2017, 04:58 PM

Your starting to make me worried

You should not.
No one outside QC should fear inspection.

Frank818

03-12-2017, 05:07 PM

I solidified my wiper motor, to prevent the DMV from rejecting my previous installation.

However, how on Earth am I going to remove the motor, now?

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I'm loosing concentration... oh well, I'll leave this AS IS and see what they say. I'll cut the flat bar and weld another one with bolts. If I don't pass inspection just cuz of that, I won't get sick.

I also redid my exhaust. Everything after the muffler. As some remember, the elbow right after the muffler is touching the rear bumper. DMV won't accept that, so I've been pro-active again and redid the exhaust. I'm half way through it but I gained about 1". That's still pretty close to the bumper, I will certainly install some heat shield plate over the muffler and pipe, bolted to the rear bumper's top lip to hide that corner. I could gain almost 1" more, but I'd need a new muffler and start all over, the hard thick 5/16 stainless rod welded to the muffler to support it is pretty welded onto it, would take ages to remove. Better off buying a new muffler. If the DMV doesn't like that, I have to buy a new muffler at 75 bucks and a new 90-deg elbow at 60 bucks (and overall 50 bucks of shipping). So I'm not doing it now, also cuz of the delays to get the parts. But I have a solution to do better.

It's actually a good thing I redid it, cuz when I welded the pipe, the muffler wasn't fully bolted on on the frame and DP. Now that it is, it has moved to the right side, so it's totally out of wack in my center tip top grill, it's touching the edge pretty bad. I also noticed it had quite some stress. So I followed different steps to bolt it on and align it. Now it has no stress and some play to move. I just need to weld the outlet, make the exit pipe longer and weld a 1-1.5" longer pipe on the tip as well. Some more hand saw coming on...

Yeah, I cut the stainless pipe by hand with a hand saw.

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Frank818

03-15-2017, 05:59 PM

I can understand no one has a solution for my wiper motor stuck in there, as there are none. loll

This might interest everyone: the DMV accepted my seat belts installation. Finally something I get right.
However, he said FFR is at the limit of the required strength in case of impact. He showed a couple of math formulas and results. For those the belts are important, it means if you do your installation with less strength level you may run into an issue in case of a wreck. You've got to anchor the belt's points directly onto the frame, no bracket, not anchored on the seat. Unless you're sure the brackets support as much or more as the frame. I'm not flaming FFR at all, this is a 10k kit, not a 1 million supercar. All I want is my plate, I have no time to flame anyone about anything, nothing is anyone's fault but mine. One mistake and I can't drive on the streets. I am the only one who can can do the installation on the car and make it pass.

I thank everyone who helped me so far. Now I need to install those parts and solutions in order to make them perfect. And if I do it right, I should pass.

Stuff to install following DMV's rules:
- Front SAE/DOT turn signals
- Rear SAE/DOT 3rd brake light
- Driver's seat back-fort adjustable mounts
- Physical CRANK and SHUTDOWN function (mine is wifi at the moment)
- Hey that's it!

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The few last things the DMV might not like are:

- Front splitter sticking out 3". I will pull the splitter back
- The fact I'd need a physical button for ACC and IGN, and not just CRANK and SHUTDOWN like he said
- My coolant hose being too close to the muffler/DP at a very specific point
- My muffler being too close to the rear axle.
- A few other things.
Now all the above are fixed (Aug 2017).

No my exhaust touching on the rear bumper should not be an issue, it'll be far enough now. I just can't get the pipe perfectly aligned to spot weld it, it's very hard with 2 hands, gotta think of a mount to keep it aligned in one place (muffler outlet) while I align the other end (tip exit).

Frank818

03-22-2017, 06:31 PM

Arf, where am I...

15h to fix my exhaust touching the bumper. Much more clearance now but I think I should have cut the pipe a little longer, it's about 1/16" outside the rear grill. On the other hand it looks pretty good being flush like that. I also smoothed out the inside of the muffler outlet pipe (the section welded on the muffler's outlet) so that the exhaust flow would not hit on the pipe's edge and rather more on an upwards slope. I did a pretty nice weld there!!! For about 1"... lolll

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Yes, I did it again. And again a 3rd time to cut the 1" long extension to my tip. Sick of cutting by hand with a saw, I'm through with that.

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Received few parts to comply with DMV. Will take me many weeks to fit them, now.
There are 100s of rules to comply to. And I won't be the first one registering, someone from this forum who posted what some said to be the very first 818 QUARTER MILE is registering at the same time as I do. However his car is running, no tune required, no need to fix broken parts after the 1st track run. And he's got a Subaru build, with, on top of that, the old nose with SAE legal Camry headlights, which makes it a lot easier. Saves certainly 75h due to the old nose.

Hey, I can't be the first for everything... :)

DodgyTim

03-30-2017, 10:46 PM

Frank, if it makes you feel any better, I had to torsion test the entire chassis to get mine registered. To get it done commercially is about $3k. I managed to fabricate a test rig from some steel I had in the shed, and 12 dial gauges. Cost about $500, but delayed me months......

Frank818

03-31-2017, 06:26 AM

Tnx Tim, yes it does make feel better! Torsion test the chassis is something my DMV does not require as they approve what FFR does.

Any chassis test, crash test, pollution test and airbags are not required. Chassis analysis is required if my DMV does not know the quality background of the chassis build. Like an unknown kit-car company or making your own chassis, require CAD analysis. Fortunately FFR is well known at the DMV.
But everything else an OEM cars needs to have, I have to as well.

Not sure I'd trade my rules for your torsion test rule, which is why it does make feel better! :)

However I'd trade my Country for yours, weather is better in yours. Ok many fires usually but hey, nothing's perfect! :)

DodgyTim

03-31-2017, 07:22 AM

Over the last few days we've had a cyclone causing massive flooding
Normally you have to watch out for snakes and crocks displaced by the floodwaters
This photo didnt make too much of a stir locally, but went a bit viral in the UK
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Frank818

04-02-2017, 12:20 PM

Nice shark! In the mud. :)

Frank818

04-02-2017, 12:23 PM

2 updates. 2 bad updates.

First one, wheel spacers are not allowed! I have 10 or 15mm up front in order to clear the frame on full lock and also cuz the tire looks better inside the fender.
Need to get those off, find some C clips spacers, open up the steering rack and fit those in place.

Frank818

04-02-2017, 12:33 PM

2nd problem.

The certified welder came by yesterday to certify my welds. Out of the 300-400 non-FFR joints/seams, 4-5 passed. Which means ALL of my welds (mines and my mech's) must be ground off and redone! He will even CUT the engine mounts tubes that my mech added and re-fab new ones! He said there are a lot of bad designs and very bad welds. Pin holes, holes, incomplete welds not fully closed, too cold welds, etc...
Including the CAD$1000 certification document, that's a CAD$5000+ job! Half of Jeff's super awesome Ohlins super custom suspension.

However I need to do that. Aside from the DMV, he said after a certain time the welds would have cracked due to vibrations. He would have not been surprised that the engine would have dropped off while running at some point. Couple of years, 10 years, 1 year, who knows, but he said there's no way these welds would have been safe. He's certified cars and modified cars a lot.

He also found an FFR weld on the cockpit main tubes that has a pin hole! He said that weld won't pass, especially in that area! He will check ALL of the car's weld and redo those that aren't good.

We have to jack the engine and gearbox, but don't need to remove it, phew!! I do have to remove a lot of little things around it, though. And I have to tow the car at his garage for the engine mounts and gearbox mounts. For the other welds, he will do in my garage.

Only good part here is that he said my SS welds on the exhaust are quite good for someone who started welding on SS! He will redo them all with TIG but he said I wasn't that bad. He doesn't think on the long run there would be no leaks, but for a first timer it's not too bad, considering it's SS.

In the end, yeah, I'm pissed off again of those 2 more issues on my list, but hey I chose a VR6 turbo in QC so I gotta live with it now.

Canadian818

04-02-2017, 01:40 PM

Wow Frank, that's a costly redo! Too bad I'm on the other side of the country, I would've definitely helped you out with the welding. There's quite a few FFR welds I'm not happy with, and lots of spatter that they didn't clean off. Best to safe, get it done right.

Frank818

04-02-2017, 02:16 PM

Best to safe, get it done right.

Yes, it's 25% for DMV and 75% for me.

DodgyTim

04-02-2017, 04:10 PM

Ouch Frank, I feel your pain

RM1SepEx

04-02-2017, 05:26 PM

Congrats Frank, you are making my issues seem very insignificant

Hindsight

04-02-2017, 07:58 PM

Darn Frank, I can't believe the level of scrutiny they make you got through up there to get on the road.

Frank818

04-03-2017, 06:42 AM

Tnx for the support guys.

The welds certification is more for me but any weld could be suspicious.
Might as well re-do everything and have one document certifying all the car.

It's my fault I and my mech did bad welds that could crack with time.

The wheels spacers would be allowed if bolted or welded onto the rim, but floating in sandwich between the rim and hub, not allowed.

They also required a hood hinge. I do have that though, thanks to Craig, otherwise I'd be in trouble again.

AZPete

04-03-2017, 04:15 PM

Aargh, it's tough to click on your build thread to see what new, ridiculous obstacles the nanny government has thrown at you. You are tough, Frank, and I know you'll tough it out eventually. I know we are all pulling for you.

Frank818

04-03-2017, 05:32 PM

Good news!

BTW tnx Pete!

Yes I have 2 good news. I'm not out of the woods yet, but those news are helping a lot.

First one is I got my seat slider solution accepted!

65927

Red lines are 3/16x1" flat bars I will add and green circles are where the Sparco slider bolts onto.
Do you guys think 5/16" grade 5 bolts are enough for seat mounts? I got M8s OEM on the VW seats, but they probably are grade 8 or 10.
This solution is re-usable!

This will get me moving as I will fab the parts, tack weld them in place and in 2 w-es when the welder will re-do some welds he will weld the flats on. Or show me how to weld properly, he said he'd show me how to adjust the machine and how to weld. We'll see.

2nd good news, DMV gave me the go to complete their "Construction Declaration Document". This step means the DMV has no more questions for me and I can move on to official pre-inspection (that document). In that doc I need to list a bunch of items, like VIN's, serial numbers, manufacturers, provide invoices, etc. I have to provide roughly 15 to 20 different kinds of pictures (over 40 individual pix) to prove what I'm writing. Axles, wheels, tires, interior, exterior, engine, gearbox, steering, braking system, proportioning valve, fuel tank, seats, seat belts and of course all the lighting.

I will have troubles, I think, with the VINs and Serials of the engine and gearbox. I got the VIN of the engine, but no serial. I've got the serial of the gearbox, but no VIN. Gotta check where I could find those. We'll see, I don't know yet how flexible or not they are for that part. I'm supposed to give a picture of the engine's VIN on the engine. I have none! I don't know if it was on the cam cover's side and got removed when I got it powder coated in 2006 or fell off with time (sticker).

phil1734

04-03-2017, 06:05 PM

You can always buy a set of letter and number punches from your local Canadian Tire and "find" your engine/trans VIN that way.

Unless Canada is different, they aren't on Subaru engines and transmissions in the states, and if I had to do inspection again i'd give the punches a go just to keep the inspector happy.

Frank818

04-03-2017, 06:26 PM

Good idea Phil! That would most probably work.

I found my engine serial number on the block. But I don't think there is any VIN on that engine, google showed me nothing but the serial. On the sticker on the cam cover, there was only the serial as well, no VIN. I checked one VR6 that still has the sticker. Engine might be too old and VINs weren't on them back then. I have the 35,118th AAA VR6 produced, that's quite a low number.

I'll see what they say and if they absolutely need a VIN I'll punch it on the block if I have enough space without removing it. loll However I have proof, on paper and pictures, that that engine has VIN XYZ.

redfogo

04-05-2017, 12:36 PM

Had no idea the loops some folks have to go through! I'm rooting for you!

Frank818

04-08-2017, 02:22 PM

Right, I think I'm all pre-approved now.

The DMV also asked piston caliper's sizes! And other details like the MC used, discs' size, etc. And they calculate the stopping power for you! They want to make sure you have enough power and that you balance the power properly, say F70-R30 as a starting point, so they ask about the proportional valve. It turned out my brake kit has just over twice the power of the OEM WRX.

Welder will come on April 14th.

One point, you cannot install a different engine after you pass inspection, unless you use the same anchor points. If you don't, you need to pass inspection again. If you don't want to and take the risk, basically any mod you make to the car (cluster, buttons, engine, lighting, seats, etc.) a cop has the right to ask to see your approval documentation and if he has doubts that some of the mods may not respect rules, you go to impound and you gotta work out with DMV to get the car re-approved again. However if your mods still respect the rules, you should be fine.

wleehendrick

04-12-2017, 04:35 PM

Frank, I thought the DMV was tough on you up there, but after reading this...

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/driver-with-open-beer-log-suspension-stopped-in-west-quebec

"A driver who used wooden logs and chicken wire to reinforce his vehicle’s suspension was ticketed and had his car impounded by police following a traffic stop in west Quebec."

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Frank818

04-12-2017, 04:48 PM

Ha you see? No windshield wipers and I could get impounded! lolll

I admit I wouldn't be expecting anything better than that log on a Tercel falling apart. lolll Imagine, that car would be legal in IN and MT. lolll

Frank818

04-30-2017, 05:52 PM

Yeah my project is still alive, tabarnak. That was a Quebec swear, the beauty of it it's unfiltered by the administrator. lolll

I work so much on the car I don't even take time to read other's posts/threads. :(

CAD$5500 later, all my welds have been re-done. Took 2 days of work in 2 weeks. One day I needed to tow the car to the guy's garage at 6h40 in the morning.

67054

But it's done calice d'ostie de sacrament de tabarnak de viarge!!

I got my welding certification. Besides, 80% of the welds were bad and many of them would have failed. Had no choice.
My personal welds weren't good cuz I'm always too cold, not enough wire and too fast with my hand. He adjusted my machine and showed me how to do it right with steel wire and SS wire.
He also TIG welded re-fusioned all of my exhaust pipes. They would have failed with time.

I am now re-building the car, putting stuff back on again so I can start up the engine for 45mins, then go to the dyno, then go to the track, then finish sanding, then wrap body panels, then try to pass inspection, then take a 6-months time off without pay time to recharge my batteries.

Ok what's this?

6705567056

I got chased by the US troppers on US59 just East of Laredo TX and they shot at me!!
Nah seriously, my oil filter was so glued in place we (welder and I) had to drill holes through and use a screwdriver as a lever to get it off! I've never heard of that before.

I think I've spent as much money as an 818 builder with a 1000hp EZ30 engine with kick *** high end fit and finish. :( I haven't seen such a builder yet.

Canadian818

04-30-2017, 08:51 PM

Keep your head up Frank, tackle one thing at a time.

Frank818

05-06-2017, 06:42 PM

DMV's seat mounts.

6740867409

My expensive welder added some flat plates on both sides to strengthen the bar. Cuz there were too many short tubings welded together and could be prone to cracking with time. These plates will make the only pretty much possible place for bending or cracking to be right in the middle of the tube bar. Can't do much to make it better but it's the same as you guys so I'm not losing strength.

67410

Currently reinstalling parts on the car to start it as soon as weather gives me a break.
And I started to freak out again for some other reasons. I don't want the whole project to fail, as there would be no viable solution on something.

I am also thinking of taking 4 weeks off work without pay this summer. I would join them with my usual 3 weeks to make that 7 weeks. This way I could give it the final hit and pass inspection, all that in the fastest possible time. I could finally take some rest and prevent my brain from getting crazy. As of now I found out that the only thing keeping me alive is stress. If I ever get my plate, stress will fall and I have no idea how my body will react. I think it's fair enough to stay away from work and not affect work by that. Time will tell.

Frank818

05-07-2017, 06:32 PM

I'm getting there, criss de calice de tabarnak, I'm getting there! Never been that far yet anyway.

675346753567536

Mind the green tape on the cluster, just an alignment mark which is no longer required but no "time" to get it off.
No tunnel cover on yet, I want to see and work around the wires while testing the engine.
One day, if I pass inspection and don't need to part off the car, those seats will be blue and black.

Harley818

05-07-2017, 11:43 PM

Keep it up Frank. looking good so far. Hopefully they will give you a pass. When are you planning to go in.
Hopefully BC isn't that tough. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Lots of guys here with the MK4's - they said it was pretty easy.

Frank818

05-09-2017, 05:49 PM

The DMV is on strike starting May 10th.
What were the odds at this time of my build... actually everything that could fail on my build failed at least once so far.
For example I wasted 2.5h filling up my AWIC circuit with water this morning. Then the 2 lowest points of the circuit started leaking and the only way I could fix it was to drain the entire system and get a few parts and hoses off. lolll

Some mind-boggling stats:

- 3 years of building
- 125 weeks of at least 30mins of work time
- 2705h of work
- Averaging 22h per week (up from 19h at week 100)
- Engine started 3 times
- Go-karted once for 200-300 yards
- Fastest speed was about 10mph (don't even know if my speedo was working)
- Highest gear changed into was 1st gear.
- Last engine start on Aug 5th 2016

When are you planning to go in.

Not possible before July. That will be possible only if I don't have leaks this w-e when I start up the engine, no leaks or issues on the dyno and nothing that would break on the track.
Honestly such a perfect success or luck never happened on my build, so I can't imagine I will pass until end of July or somewhere in August at the best (depends on the issues).

Hopefully BC isn't that tough.

Certainly not. I'm sure your place is a piece of cake, I wouldn't worry at all and I wouldn't have any kind of sleeping issues cuz of that (in BC).

However I'm super interested to know what you come up with your DMV. If it was a hard place to plate, I'm sure you'd know by now. I knew before I bought the kit that QC was hard. It's just that now I discovered half of the rules aren't documented. DOH! lolll

Lots of guys here with the MK4's - they said it was pretty easy.

That's very encouraging. I have no idea how the MK compares with the 818 in terms of "ease of complying with rules", those I know with an MK in QC had their plate before 2010 when the rules quite changed.
Like I said, I'd really like to know what you find out with your DMV. Maybe you should go onto their website and pull out the registration procedure to give you an idea. Just in case you are going towards something you may end up with problems. It's worth being pro-active with registration process.

Frank818

05-22-2017, 07:09 PM

great to see it drivable. Your about 1/2 way done.

Bob's right.

Around 1500h last year I go-karted for the 1st time. (second time was 3 days ago!)
Now at 2750h, almost done, I'm pretty sure I'll bust 3000h, maybe 3000-3100h, wrap included. Bob was so right, my jaw's dropping!

Frank818

05-27-2017, 06:08 PM

Yeah I have a video but won't post, sun was in the face of the camera and I swear in the video.

The weather was so **** in the past few weeks I had no window to go on the dyno between 8 to 5 Mons to Fris. So I decided to go directly at the track on a sunny Sat. And street tune the car there.

This is my lift:

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Super nice of Jacques (in blue) to let me use his awesome trailer! It's very easy to roll the car in and out of it. Powered by a pure American Ford F150!!

Which has junky coilpack! It ran in 5cyls and he needed to test the coil. Turns out one coil pin had come off! Fortunately, he had a SPARE COIL in the truck (uh??). You don't see many people swapping coilpacks on the street within 20mins (or swapping coilpacks on the street at all!). I admit it wasn't his 1st time with this engine.

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At the track (Jacques was helping fuel tuning):

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I said a while back that in order to register my car by mid-summer I needed a perfect track session without any issues.
See for yourself:

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I knew I'd have issues with these axles. They do roll perfectly without any problem or noticeable friction/wear, but the boots are under HIGH tension stress. So far it seems the collars weren't tightened enough (for this crazy pioneer application). One of them came loose and the boot poped out and the other came loose without poping out but the grease barfed everywhere, including inside the rim, on bolts, spring... Thank god I had my disc backing plate! The other 2 boots are in good condition, tight enough. There is wear on the inner boot but I guess after a while it'll become a smooth shinny surface and will wear less.

I've got 2 other issues. My starter bolt rubs on the frame. Not sure how I'll fix that!! That's a tough design, probably won't do it before inspection.
The other is that the engine changes sound and looses a LOT of power (almost like if I go under compression) around 3-3.1k and up, even if off boost (say at 80% or 100% atmospheric). Valve guides, chain tensioner, spark plugs, low timing, high timing (knock)... not sure. But it isn't fuel related, I've tried at 17AFR and 11.5AFR and same result.

So disappointing, but how could I have expected a perfect session without any flaws, it's almost impossible for a difficult and totally non-standard build like this. Jacques, who built and plated a Subaru 818 (yes he's then a God), confirmed my build was difficult and that I had complicated solutions everywhere.

There are good points of the session though! But I'm not proud of the issues I just can't savor those good points yet.

Frank818

05-27-2017, 06:10 PM

Springs testing!

450 are a bit too stiff at the front. It was bouncy on the track, I'm sure it wouldn't work well on the streets here.
350 at the rear are surprisingly good! For my build. It felt comfortable.

My guess is:

350 to 400 front
350 to 450 rear

I'm gonna buy Tom's 400s, if they are still available and try them at the front. They could also be used at the back, I think so.

Frank818

05-27-2017, 06:23 PM

The good news about this extreme axle setup is that they do roll perfectly. They are 4in backwards and 2-3in upwards but they roll as if they were perfectly straight.
The issue is the tension on the boots. This has nothing to do with the inside of the CVs. No one knew if the inside would roll ok cuz no one tried a setup like mine.
I confirm the angle is not a problem, at least in the short term, for spinning the axles.

I also highly suggest to anyone: please do NOT build a VR6 818.

Frank818

05-27-2017, 06:57 PM

How does the engine sound?
How do Porsche gear ratios feel?
How's the car braking?
How's the car handling?
How does it feel to drive an open top, without seat belts, without a helmet and without doors?

If anyone wants to know how this feels and sounds with a VR6 in the ***, let me know, I'll answer your questions.

frankc5r

05-27-2017, 07:36 PM

If you are not logging a wide band o2 sensor to confirm air fuels,
you need to before u hurt something. You need to reel up on power checking
what fuel values Damage occurs in a flash even before you can lift throttle. Good luck!!

mikeb75

05-28-2017, 06:35 AM

Despite the issues, major congratulations getting to the track for a shakedown!

You don't actually state -how did the car feel to drive in anger? Were you working out the engine problem the whole time or did you get to run it out any?

Canadian818

05-28-2017, 06:39 AM

So Frank, how does it sound with the VR6 out back? Sounds like you actually got it out of first gear! Be careful with the tuning, definitely don't want to be going that lean, especially under boost. Almost sounds like the engine is pulling timing under load, better figure out why. Do you have someone there to tune it?

Frank818

05-28-2017, 06:11 PM

Engine 3k-3.5k issue solved (theoretically, still need to start engine but axles are off).
Yes I do run a wideband. Which was almost impossible to read in an open top under sunlight.

I have an ECU feature where I can give a set RPM rev limit when engine is cold based on water temp under X (user parm) or oil temp under Y (user parm). I choose to cut fuel and/or spark, at the moment it was spark only.
Since the car was running cold the whole time (read my next post) it triggered the rev limiter the whole time. Also the oil temp sensor I am using is new and I haven't had time to adjust its scaling in my ECU software, it's possible it reads lower than actual temp (I have a VW in-cluster gauge for that to compare to). I have turned off that feature for now. But the way it works is a soft cut-off, it was set to cut all spark at 3500 but it starts say at 25% cut 500rpm lower! Since this is the exact behavior I was experiencing and it was reproducible ALL the time even if I floored the gas pedal, I don't think it can be anything else.

Issues left:
- Blown up axles
- Starter bolt rubbing on frame between lower lateral links

Frank818

05-28-2017, 06:59 PM

I'll try to bullet point my driving experience.

I drove the car about 90mins.
It was sunny and around 20-22C (68-72F for those without a converter in their head, like me loll)
Track had a few turns and full half a mile straight line (some of it pictured above). It's used for the 1/4 mile runs
3 other guys were driving some antique cars with straight pipes, had to check for them around cuz I was stopping the car every 15sec to tune fuel.
I drove something like 15-20km (9-12miles).
First time in my life I was driving an open top
First time without seat belts
First time without doors (and no helmet)

My overall impressions in 31 validations:

- FFR fuel level sender is a rotten JOKE. This thing was showing 1/4 of a tank (which is actually 1/8th of a tank cuz the sender starts to go down when you hit half a tank) and 1min later it was showing over half a tank. The car was stand still during both readings. It moved like that for the whole session, absolutely no way to know your fuel. Trip mileage is a must or watch your odo. But you need to know how far you can go with a tank in order to gauge yourself in your head
- Not that easy to get in or out, there's nothing you can grab onto! Apart from the handbrake lever
- Gas pedal is firm
- Brake pedal is extremely firm, I have no idea how to make an emergency stop without snapping off the brake pedal and I couldn't lock any of the wheels. Didn't try that much though
- Clutch pedal is very firm. I use a 3/4 or 13/16 MC due to the Porsche clutch, Subaru's MC was way too weak to engage
- This car builds legs
- Shifting (I went to 4th) is like using Excalibur's sword for which you are not the chosen one and try to shift with it through its rock. Firm shifts, very clunky and imprecise 1st gear if not at a complete stop. But the gears do work awesome
- Superb clutch feeling when engaging, absolutely no jerks or hiccups like I used to have all the time on the Corrado. Same thing when shifting, once in gears and you put down the power, it's super precise and smooth
- Gear ratios seemed to be pretty damn good! 1st isn't too short, 2nd pulls great and the others didn't feel too long. 1988 and Porsche already had put their fingers on something great
- Steering is firm but god damn it's so precise and quick!
- Steering's road feedback is over the top of excellence
- Wheel alignment, didn't notice anything wrong here! I did a very few harder pulls though, but the rear never tram lined or anything and the steering was perfectly keeping its track all the time, I don't recall needing to correct track in ANY way. I admit I wasn't going fast or hard, but it's a start!
- Absolutely no electrical buzzes or weirdo things. Tnx to InfinityBox and my excellent installation
- This car is MANLY in ALL aspects and definitely not a car I'd let an inexperienced driver test drive
- Engine is hot in the cockpit and any wind swirling will bring a hot draft inside
- Exhaust fumes weren't too bad, considering I had no body on and it was often windy towards the cockpit, but when rolling I didn't notice any unpleasant fumes
- FUEL STARVATION, nothing at all about that. I had about 15liters (4gals or 30% full) in the tank and I experienced nothing. Jacques told me he did experience some starv but only on right HARD and FAST turns with MINIMAL fuel in tank. Something that can hardly happen on the streets. We're not in CA, here!
- Taking a sharp turn over 30mph is A LOT of fun!
- Did not notice any body roll, actually quick turns showed me how stiff the chassis is. I admit I didn't turn like Bob, but for what will be done on the streets, this car will never body roll, far from there
- No leaks
- No issues with filling up coolant, no burps, no apparent air pockets and no burbling when shutting down the engine, which I had all the time on the Corrado
- Did not notice unusual heat in the foot area caused by coolant lines
- Engine was running cold for most of the session
- Water temps never went over 80-82C (176-180F) and my rad fan never kicked in (should kick at 93C but I can put whatever value I want)
- Air temps (water cooler) were dropping by 10C (50F) WITHOUT even using the pump! No water circulation and I had constant 50F drop, by just the water inside the cooler
- Turbo was able to kick in up to 0.5bar (7psi) even though I had the limiter on, so my new BOV worked about twice. Super quick and awesome sound, louder than expected though
- When applying gas after an overrun situation, it was super smooth, no matter if I was applying quickly or slowly. With my Corrado I always had fuel issues here, probably related to my extremely restrictive exhaust I had
- When applying gas quickly to say overtake (or just for fun loll), it was also quite smooth, something again I always fell into a lean situation with the Corrado. And my fuel tuning is not yet optimal, so it's very promising
- There seems to be plenty of torque in the low end, although I run 3in
- Muffler is super efficient, the sound isn't too loud but loud enough, exactly like I wanted it to be
- Engine sound on acceleration is.... I need to keep that car, I can't fail, I need that sound! When revs were going over 2.75k I could hear the potential, if it wasn't for that limiter. Can't wait to hear that screaming at 5k

- Yes I did monitor all of the above during that short session
- Overall the car drove awesome without issues, apart from the axles and the slight rub on the frame from the starter. If I can fix those 2 issues this car will over impress anyone on the road

Hindsight

05-28-2017, 07:43 PM

Congrats on the HUGE milestone Frank. You definitely took a hard way to get there but it's paying off now. So happy to see you out there driving it, even if it's on the track without the body, given all the registration headaches you've been having.

Bob_n_Cincy

05-28-2017, 10:50 PM

Hey Frank,
Great job, your getting there, keep on checking off your check list.
Bob

Canadian818

05-29-2017, 01:33 PM

Awesome write up Frank, we need video!

Frank818

05-29-2017, 01:38 PM

Awesome write up Frank, we need video!

Axles failed before I could take one. :(
But since I fixed the 3k engine issue and will fix the axles one day, my next video will then be either driving on the streets plated raising my middle finger at the DMV or rolling on the dyno. Not sure yet if I'll go at the dyno before or after inspection.
So no engine videos for probably the whole summer. :(

AZPete

05-29-2017, 01:55 PM

Big congratulation on the successful drive! It's been a long trail with lots of hurdles, so I admire your perseverance and all that you've learned. I've also learned a lot from your thread.

Frank818

06-07-2017, 06:07 PM

I hesitated before posting these pix. Not sure why.

Seat back reclining button.

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Cockpit shots without seat belts and without my center console tablet, which is required to start the engine. This cockpit is one of the reasons why I spent so much time on the car. The seat belts are ready for permanent install, just that they are not on the pix.

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Hum, maybe I should have put suede on the rear firewall panels. Easier to manipulate if I need to remove. I'll put that on my list for next year. Oh, right, it doesn't cover the big holes to pass the wires and cables through. I'm sticking with cloth.

One thing I really am not happy about, is that my AFR gauge on the far top left of the dash (square gauge) is TOTALLY invisible under sunlight. Can't see the numbers. Sucks.

For those wondering what I have left to do.
Well I am fixing some damn gel coat things, adding gel coat to one rear fender to close up the gap between panels, rocker panel painting the under car aluminum panels and splash guards, blocking off the steering column we can still see (hum next year), blocking off the huge gaps around the cluster (nah next year) and then I adjust my headlights and then it's time to... wrap the body!

While this guy is having fun in his Ferrari, I'm waiting for the bus...

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C.Plavan

06-07-2017, 09:26 PM

Buy longer CV Boots- Try universal ones, or look around for longer ones. That will solve that problem easy.

longislandwrx

06-08-2017, 01:28 PM

can you use a lathe to turn a small v grove in that silver axle piece? then use a little safety wire to tighten it up?

great progress though!

Frank818

06-08-2017, 06:02 PM

Buy longer CV Boots- Try universal ones, or look around for longer ones. That will solve that problem easy.

Good point, didn't even know they exist. Just need to find the right diameters and length and it may work. Problem is I only measure the OD of the boot, so I guess I have to aim for a little lower.

can you use a lathe to turn a small v grove in that silver axle piece? then use a little safety wire to tighten it up?

great progress though!

The inner CV already has a deep grove, which is why I was surprised it popped out. I don't have access to a lathe tool, but if it comes down to safety wire I'll see what can be done. Good idea yeah.

Frank818

06-12-2017, 12:32 PM

Good news, if reclamping the boots doesn't work, I have 2 other solutions and at least one will work for sure:

- DSS suggested "Hyperspeed boots", which I cannot find anything about it on the web
- This place http://www.stretchcvboot.com/cv-boots/

They have 3 sizes and each size can fit a VARIOUS amount of widths. They are stretchable without wear, which is what I need could at every wheel cycle the boot continuously stretches and compresses, due to the angle.
Good ol' Australians!! Tnx to you.
I couldn't find these types elsewhere, at least not yet.

wicked93gs

06-12-2017, 01:51 PM

I have to ask: Why did you use the Porsche transaxle? Why not use the standard Subie 5/6 speed trans? It seems to me that the VR6 engine isn't much(if any) longer than the EJ25(at least according to a quick google search). I believe that might have alleviated a lot of the pain of your particular swap.

Frank818

06-12-2017, 02:14 PM

Couple of reasons:

- Gearbox and inner CVs are "judged by me" too weak for the torque I have (debatable a few will say), I've seen some here and elsewhere destroying their gearbox with less and equal (doesn't mean ALL subie boxes are weak), so I didn't want to have that problem. There are options like PPG gears and stuff but there are compromises that didn't suit me. With the G50 I never need to think about it
- I intend to increase torque within time as well
- Gear ratios are not at all to my taste, engine curve and driving style (too short all around). There are options but again there are compromises outside my limits. With the G50 the ratios are already pretty good and I can change one single gear at a time choosing through a wide list of ratios
- Was easy to find the adapter plate for the VR6-to-G50. Maybe easy for the VR6-to-Subie as well, I don't know
- Less important but still, my friend mechanic knows the VR6 since insception and works on Porsches every day for a long time, so any engine or gearbox work will be easy, also he's got a bunch a spare parts almost for free to me

wicked93gs

06-12-2017, 04:16 PM

I suppose it depends on exactly how much torque you are putting out....but things can be done. If you are putting out enough torque to easily overpower your wheels, its a waste and you are better off changing for lower torque and higher HP instead via things like shorter intake runners, etc. The benefit being, the lower the torque the less stress on the gearbox. Its a balancing act of course, you still want to be able to light the wheels up on demand, but at the same time, doing so is a waste of available power. Also, tires factor in a big way into breaking driveline parts(the stickier the tire, the more likely it is to break a gearbox on a hard launch) as does vehicle weight. The question is, those people who broke the WRX trans...did they break it in a lightweight 818 or a different vehicle? How much torque were they making? Did they break the transmission while launching? If so, what tires were they using? All of it factors in....to me, wheelspin is just lost speed, but not to others. As for the gear ratios being too short....well, that is entirely subjective. Which Subie box are we talking? An STI 6-speed trans for instance have comparable ratios to 2017 Mustang GT. A 5 speed WRX has longer gears(no surprise having one less gear) but 1st gear is essentially worthless. Boost of course plays into gear ratios...ideally a 6 speed is worthless for boost...as are shorter gears in general. The more times you are shifting under boost, the more times you loose boost and have to re-spool the turbo. Ideally for a turbo build you want a 5 speed with wide ratios to stay in boost longer...but who makes a transaxle like that these days? The hype of 6th gear has taken over the world sadly. For a NA build I much prefer 6 gears with close ratios(at least the 1st 5, all I really want 6th for is better interstate cruising), but with a turbo build, I would find a 5 speed wide ratio box.

Aside from my musing-out-loud though, I do like your build and your choice of trans does make sense.

Frank818

06-12-2017, 05:26 PM

Oh all this is most of all subjective, yes. The G50 was what I'm looking for in every aspect, except weight and axle angles. It took time but now the axles are not stressing me anymore, once I fix those boots for which solutions do exist, there is no reason it wouldn't work as good as normal axle angles. Besides, a G50 in perfect condition for USD$3k is almost impossible to find. I could sell it for double the price.

Maybe after tweaking a Subie gearbox it would work but when I was looking for a gearbox solution, no one came near to convince me on the Subie (2002-2007 5 and 6-sp or Legacy's) for my requirements and the G50 was there, answering everything except the axle angle back then. Choice was easy at a ridiculously low price.

Some Subie gears got destroyed in 818s, I think more than one but the most famous is FFR blowing up their 3rd gear with only 340hp (I've got around 450 and could put out more easily). Yes it was in race mode but still. 3rd is the most important gear to me, it's the one I step on it the most. Then 1st gear, as a long one, to get a good long launch with minimal spin.

The G50 has long ratios which is great for turbo. I plan on maybe changing 1 to 3 of them, but that is tweaking. I understood it was much harder on the Impreza box. Since my goal is to build a custom car customized to my tastes, gear ratios is something very important to me. Choosing the exact ratio I like for each gear is something high on my list. G50 is perfect for that.

I checked the Audi boxes too, but they all had 2 to 5 gears upgrade at a time and very very short ratios (changing the FD is not necessarily an option). I've experienced that on my Corrado with OEM 5sp before I changed to 6sp with long 1-2 and it made the car totally different. I wanted to reproduce that, rather than being unhappy all the time I drive the car. With the G50 all this is a fact to be possible and it can support a good 600hp. I just needed to take the risk with the axle angles and it's actually fine.

In the end, nothing prevents me from changing to an Impreza box, if I can find an adapter plate. But so far there is no reason I see why I'd do it.

Remember, this build is not about making money or making it a low budget build, it's about making it as close as possible to what I want/prefer. It's gonna cost me a lot more, but that's how I want it to be. :) Which I think is one thing that makes my build special. I wanted an antique and respected drivetrain, the VR6 is 25yo and still exists in some new cars and the G50 from an 88 Porsche is well known to be a great gearbox, even after 30years. Both are old school and is what I am looking for.

wicked93gs

06-14-2017, 10:52 AM

I can fully understand. I have yet to order my kit(still a couple thousand away from ordering) but I plan on using a Ford 3.7L v6(from a 2012+ mustang) and a STI six speed, mainly because I am unimpressed with the Subaru engine choices. I want a nice simple 300HP NA 6 cylinder that gets 30mpg....and Subaru has no such thing, and the H6 options they do have are 40HP down on the goal while being heavier than the EJ25(the Ford Duratec37 is the same weight). Your build in particular interested me because my engine choice will inevitably push the axles back at least 2-3 inches(and require extensive frame modification). Of course there is no adapter plate for a Ford v6 to Subaru trans, but it wont be the first time I have made an adapter plate from scratch. Making an adapter plate is easy assuming you have a large accurate caliper. The trickier part is the custom flywheel and extended pilot bearing needed(you can do without a custom flywheel a lot of times if you use an engine-side starter and your bellhousing has enough space to fit a factory flywheel and whatever clutch-disc, pressure plate combo you end up having to use...but when using a 4 cylinder trans with a 6 or 8 cylinder engine, most often the bellhousing space available is severely limited...in particular 4 cylinder flywheels are significantly smaller diameter than their 6 and 8 cylinder counterparts...and bellhousing depth is shallower too...so when looking a modern v6 that uses a thick dual mass flywheel and trying to fit that into a 4 cylinder bellhousing....you wont have much luck there). What interests me is actually the factory Subaru 2WD transmissions. I know they have automatic versions of these transmissions...but do manual versions exist? They are interesting for 2 reasons...they are shorter(an advantage when pushing the axles back, I fear using the STI 6 speed will end up with the back of the trans even with the rear bumper cover) and you don't have to convert them to 2wd...which is neither here nor there...but being designed as 2wd, they may well be stronger in that role than a converted 4wd trans. For instance....the 1st gen dodge neon 5speed transmission can handle 400HP stock...I know because I pushed those numbers from an old neon of mine with a factory trans(can you say peg-leg torque steer?) Speaking of trans weight, what is the weight of the Subie trans anyway out of curiosity?

Scargo

06-14-2017, 11:29 AM

wicked93gs

06-14-2017, 01:04 PM

I am puzzled by your ruminations.
There are 4 cylinder NA engines that can make decent power. OTOH, my '08 DAVCS engined STi was able to get 34 MPG if I kept my right foot out of the turbo.
The six-speed will poke out the back regardless. You might do better fit-wise with a Porsche transaxle.

4 Cylinder NA Subaru engines that make decent power? Nope, I dont want a high strung race engine with wild cams and no low end torque. The idea is pretty simple, I have built plenty of max power high strung engines...turbo and non-turbo alike, these days 300HP in a 2000lb car is more than enough. I would rather not deal with the extra heat turbo engines produce...and NA 4 cylinders that make 300HP are not practical and reliable...that leaves 8 cylinders and 6 cylinders. 8 cylinders are too heavy(and too long generally). So a stock NA engine that weighs the same(within 50lbs) as a EJ25 and makes 300HP with factory reliability limits choices to a Duratec37, GMs LFX v6(Camaro, etc) and various Japanese 6 cylinder options(The Subaru EZ30 and EZ36 fall short on power). While I have nothing against the LFX or the Japanese options, I already have a Duratec37 that's been sitting in my garage for a year with 15k miles. Then there is also the "cosmetic" auditory aspect, simply put a v6 sounds better than a 4 cylinder, so that's always a plus. Besides all of that, I always have to build my cars in some odd way. As an example, I have a 77 Celica...decided to swap in a Dodge Neon SRT4 engine I converted to RWD with a Chevy MA5 trans. Or my other current project car...an 86 RX7 with a Ford 2.3T with a Volvo DOHC head backed by a T-5 trans. To me the fun is the build more than the finished car, so the more off the wall I can make it, the better, within reason of course. A Porsche transaxle is undoubtedly a better option for my plans, but parts availability is also a concern...much easier to find a STI transmission. I would just as happily use a 5-speed Subie trans if I could find one with a LSD already installed(and if they didn't have such an worthless 1st gear)

P.S. My apologies to the OP for derailing the thread. I look forward to more updates.

Frank818

06-14-2017, 02:29 PM

AFAIK the 02-07 5sp is about 100-125lbs dry.

When I opted for the G50, all the flafla with flywheel, clutch, etc. were already solutioned, cuz I wasn't the first and KEP sells all the pieces for a great street orientation. I didn't need to think about which clutch, which bearing, which fork, which flywheel, etc. I told the guy I have a G50-01 coupled on a VR6 and I need something for spirited street driving. I got awesome parts in return cuz I love how the clutch picks-up and so far the flywheel seems perfect as well. The driving feels OEM, and it really didn't on my Corrado, so I have a better engine now (fixed some HUGE exhaust restrictions) with a better gearbox configured. Can't complain so far.

If you go that route with your 3.7 I'm curious to see what mods you'll do on the frame (and body panels) and how. Hopefully I won't miss your build thread once you start it.

Returning on my CV boots, it's "Hyper Speed Aero CV Boots". Similar, VERY, to those on the NASA NP01. So I'm pretty sure my Plan B and C would both work if tightening the boots doesn't. I just need to time a moment with a friend to go at the track and test this.

longislandwrx

06-14-2017, 03:59 PM

so the more off the wall I can make it, the better, within reason of course.
P.S. My apologies to the OP for derailing the thread. I look forward to more updates.

Let's keep this train off the tracks for one more minute.
You should take a step back and reread Frank's thread... unless you have buckets of money to burn, as Frank has undoubtedly done by this point, it might pay to stick a little closer to the script. The engine bay in this car and the drivetrain location are very unlike the other cars you mention. I've put big engines in small cars before.. and the recipe has always been the same, pull the engine, bang here, dent there, extend the steering joints, weld up a crossmember add a little tunnel sheet metal and voila, success. The 818 is a different animal, it doesn't particularly lend itself to reengineering there is no big old engine bay, you are tucking a uniquely shaped engine into a uniquely shaped spiderweb of tubes and braces. Even FFR has still not put their long awaited, long promised eco boost option into production. If they cant get a second powertrain going in what... 2 years now? Then you have a long road ahead of you. I'm not knocking your ambition, skill, or budget I'm just saying think it all out before you plink down the money for the kit if you don't like the ej powertrain. I think Frank would agree with me on these points.

If you are really looking for something different, I still think a supercharged fa20 would be stellar in this car. It would still take some work, and maybe one of your adapter plates, but it works dimensionally. Combine that with the fact that several of the supercharger kits on the market come with a2w intercoolers and it's an even better fit for the 818. You can even start NA and add the boost later.

Good luck whatever you end up doing.

Frank818

06-14-2017, 04:42 PM

I think Frank would agree with me on these points.

Yeah you got that right, Long. Anyone who wants to fit something different than Subaru H4/H6, some EV motors or some small engines (rotaries, I4s, bike engines, etc.) need to carefully look around the space. It seems big but damn nothing is square in there, it's a web of tubes that cut space exactly where you need space. But maybe he did look into that already and is ready to mod a bunch of stuff. I wish he is cuz I want to see that.

I got VERY lucky I needed to mod just the minimum with the VR6 and a G50 gearbox. It's a miracle.

wicked93gs

06-15-2017, 02:04 PM

Let's keep this train off the tracks for one more minute.
You should take a step back and reread Frank's thread... unless you have buckets of money to burn, as Frank has undoubtedly done by this point, it might pay to stick a little closer to the script. The engine bay in this car and the drivetrain location are very unlike the other cars you mention. I've put big engines in small cars before.. and the recipe has always been the same, pull the engine, bang here, dent there, extend the steering joints, weld up a crossmember add a little tunnel sheet metal and voila, success. The 818 is a different animal, it doesn't particularly lend itself to reengineering there is no big old engine bay, you are tucking a uniquely shaped engine into a uniquely shaped spiderweb of tubes and braces. Even FFR has still not put their long awaited, long promised eco boost option into production. If they cant get a second powertrain going in what... 2 years now? Then you have a long road ahead of you. I'm not knocking your ambition, skill, or budget I'm just saying think it all out before you plink down the money for the kit if you don't like the ej powertrain. I think Frank would agree with me on these points.

If you are really looking for something different, I still think a supercharged fa20 would be stellar in this car. It would still take some work, and maybe one of your adapter plates, but it works dimensionally. Combine that with the fact that several of the supercharger kits on the market come with a2w intercoolers and it's an even better fit for the 818. You can even start NA and add the boost later.

Good luck whatever you end up doing.

Oh I am very much aware of the challenges. I also noted how FFRs 4 cylinder duratec23(ecoboost) required relocation of the triangular cross braces at the top of the engine bay(a v6 would require somewhat more extreme relocation...a couple inches wider). However....a Duratec23 is only 1/2" shorter than a Duratec37. So if FFR can cram a Duratec23 into that engine bay, a Duratec37 can be done with only a little additional work...especially if it turns out the crank and alternator pulley can actually fit inside the triangle at the front of the engine bay. Obviously the firewall would need to be installed on the fuel tank side of the engine bay in this case. So far the greatest challenge I see with the swap is the water outlet location on the Duratec 37. That triangular bracing at the front of the engine bay looks like it will run directly in front of it, which means I will have to make a custom water outlet(wont be the first time) and/or have to relocate that brace as well, but you would be amazed at what a grinder with some cutoff wheels and a welder will accomplish. To be truthful, I would much rather make a new waterneck than cut and move that brace(the ones at the top of the engine bay aren't nearly as critical)...but it wont be the first time I have made serious structural changes in a car to fit a chosen drivetrain. All that being said, in the end I will buy the kit, do some test fitment and make a final decision on whether the Duratec37 is viable. If not I will likely chose the sub-par EZ36 and deal with its issues.

longislandwrx

06-16-2017, 09:48 AM

right on dude, good luck!

Frank818

06-16-2017, 06:23 PM

These boots, same looks as the NASA EP01 and Hyper Speed Aero, are from a... Agera RS! 1 of 25...

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Gotta have a freakin good eye to see those flying by on a video, especially when the video isn't about axles at all.

Speaking of Koenigsegg, they spend 3500 hours on finishing the body alone. I think 3000 hours to build a full car (mine) isn't that bad then. Quality isn't the same at all and the use of carbon fiber (real weave matching fiber) is inexistent on mine, but still... 3500 hours!

longislandwrx

06-19-2017, 10:12 AM

internal boots? that's neat

Frank818

06-21-2017, 06:29 PM

Ah crap, WTF happened here. Things changed after I tested my exhaust 100 times and welded a 1" long 3" pipe to get the tip out of the engine bay. For some reasons now it's 0.25" inside the engine bay! I don't have the tools to cut a 3/8" long 3" pipe. I hope this will pass inspection!

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I have ideas like fitting a 4" pipe on the inside of the grill and let the exhaust tip go in it, but I don't have time for that now, I gotta finish the details on body work and wrap the panels so I can go at inspection. We're already in July, damn it.

frankc5r

06-21-2017, 06:43 PM

A lot of auto parts stores have little chrome extensions that slip on and are held in place with screw. Some are straight, some are 90 elbows.

Frank818

06-21-2017, 07:13 PM

True.

Even better, some slide in with clips: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Car-Slip-On-Steel-Muffler-Exhaust-Tips-for-Audi-A4-Q5-Q3-A3-2009-2016-/311837895047?hash=item489afca987:g:4-4AAOSwol5Y3yzf&vxp=mtr

My hole in the grill is not 4" it's like 3.5" or 3.75" so I need something really thin around the 3" tip. In the short term it's certainly a better idea. Tnx!

longislandwrx

06-23-2017, 08:56 AM

frank this has a slip and should be perfect.

https://www.amazon.com/Dynomax-36505-Exhaust-Tip/dp/B00DPHYRSQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1498226136&sr=1-3&keywords=dynomax+3+in+inlet

Frank818

06-26-2017, 05:56 PM

Tnx Long, judging by the pic it would probably fit inside my grill's hole. As long as the tip doesn't move too much but that's ok to pass inspection. Starting from that link I could see a bunch of others that would probably fit too, so the choices is vast and easy to fix my weird construction/installation error. loll

Frank818

06-26-2017, 06:58 PM

Well I took a decision.

Savor the pix below my good friends, this is the last time ever you will see the car....................... in white.

Tomorrow I start wrapping this girl up! Last build step of all... Can you f*ing believe it? I f*ing don't.

Still need to test my CV boots and do a few panels' adjustments, very slight ones, but I know it can be done after the wrap, I won't need to modify or trim the panels anymore. God sanding is LONG! When you apply gel coat on a hole or deep scratch, often after sanding it shows up again, cuz the gel coat didn't fill up deep enough. Grrrr. There are other challenges about applying/sanding gel coat to fix weaves (waves?), pin holes, chips, hollow areas, etc. If you want to know more just ask me.

I have bought new LEDs in my garage, my phone is having trouble adjusting the contrast when there's too much white.

Sorry for the blue photoshop editing on the front end, it's one of the DMV's rule that I'm ashamed of cutting in the 818's looks, hence hiding the mod.

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Can you tell the difference? On the driver's side I filled her up! The gap was way too huge and like Aloha I filled up that girl! With gel coat to make a thin gap (what were you thinking?). The gap was thin at the front, then getting larger and larger, than smaller and smaller to the rear. Pretty ugly!!! And was pretty long to fill it up AND make it straight 3-ways. Yes 3-ways, 1-way: The gap must be about the same all along. 2-way: Needed to be straight on the vertical side of the gel coat. 3-way: Needed to be straight on the top horizontal side of the coat.

On the passenger's side I didn't do anything, seems "good enough" for that side of the car.

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Again the phone thing, but this is my air filter. Fresh air from the top side scoop, whatever air goes there, and some from the huge side scoop, should have plenty that won't be coming too hot from the turbo.

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axelthrasher

06-28-2017, 11:14 AM

I really like the extra venting - looking forward to seeing that done! I'm guessing you will be adding some NACA ducts?

Frank818

06-28-2017, 12:36 PM

Tnx man.

Yes NACA-like ducts, 6 of 'em. 2 in the bottom rear of the side sails (they are on the pix but transparent), 2 on the top sides of the engine cover and 2 on the under engine belly pan.

4 will be wrapped, 2 in blue and 2 in black (to contrast with the black and blue sections where they'll be fitted). The belly pan's won't.

EODTech87

06-28-2017, 02:53 PM

What are you using the NACA ducts on the sides for?

Frank818

06-28-2017, 03:32 PM

Trying to get more airflow in the engine bay, more airflow in the side pods (coolant hoses run there and it's hot without much airflow) and more fresh air on the air filter side.

I also think the look will be cool once I put colors on, so even if it doesn't work, I'm expecting it to look cool.

Frank818

07-01-2017, 07:37 PM

Wrapping is so damn difficult!!!
Wrinkles, wrinkles and more wrinkles, that's what wrapping is all about.

Vvivid version 8 of wraps. The matte black is extremely hard to work with!! If you stretch it too much, even cold stretch, it glasses out and discolors! Same if you heat it too much, even without stretching.

6967369676

Thank god this last section is hidden (not the first one though!) but you can see the wrinkles and I tried to post-heat it but that film/color is bad for that, it glassed out.

It also scratches easily, the matte black. Was scratched before I could apply it.

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For those who think EVERY single body imperfection will show up on a wrap, it's not true.
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The above imperfection is hidden by the wrap, which means those little pinholes are not required to fill up.

The wrap sticks a lot on gel coat, quite less on fiberglass though. Sticks so much that when I remove it to adjust its placement, check out what I get underneath:

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It removes gel coat.
But the big issue is I end up with too much wrap all the time. I checked a bunch of tube vids on wrapping but none of the cars seemed to have the corners the 818 has. There are way too many tight corners on this car. And I can't stretch the film. So it does that (see discolor on 2nd pic cuz I stretched too much):

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4h later I trashed the wrap and my rear spoiler was still unwrapped. I got so pissed off I hit the wall in frustration. I will have to use the "inlays technique" in order to get around this spoiler (though less beautiful) and the front nose. God the new nose will be so hard to wrap!!

My blue wrap works better, it doesn't discolor/glass even if I heat or stretch a lot. I try not to heat much but in some places I did. They say that if you heat a wrapped area (after you wrapped it) and it doesn't unstick or grow bubbles, then the job is done right. I did the rear deck lid, thinking it was a flat piece and easy. Haw-haaaaaw!!! Yeah right... almost 5h later it was done, in 2 colors I admit. But after trying the heat trick it didn't bubble, even though for the 2 loops (near the engine cover humps) I had to heat and stretch the film.

In the end I am very unhappy with the result, although most of the imperfections will not be seen by people cuz they will be flabbergasted by the overall look of the car. I will get it re-wrapped by a pro next year, if I can find a real pro wrapper (and no pro rapper, yo!) around here. I wish I was living in the States. You guys are so lucky for almost everything, I envy you so much.

Frank818

07-04-2017, 07:59 PM

This is why I say wrapping is hard.

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Only way to make it is to heat up the wrap and stretch with 2 hands to get a wide stretch area. I couldn't do it as I couldn't find a way to hold the hood (big piece) firmly in place while I can use both hands. Fortunately it's in an area I believe only the best eyes could see. People should be too overwhelmed about the overall car and won't see that.

Speaking of which, 8h later it didn't turn out that bad after all.

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Don't believe that was easy! The round lower front section took a long time and retries to get right, needed a lot of cold stretch and some heated stretch too but not excessive.
Hood looks very simple to wrap, but it's not. I guess the doors are extremely complicated to do as a one piece, like many other parts.

Worst part so far, the new front nose insert. It requires a LOT of inlays.

C.Plavan

07-05-2017, 11:10 AM

Use Avery Dennison wrap. So much easier. Won't discolor by stretching, and use a little heat (not too much) to help stretch around corners- you will not get wrinkles like that. Do not go cheap on wrap. The more expensive wrap, the easier it is.

RetroRacing

07-05-2017, 12:16 PM

So, like The Chad said, use Avery or 3M only. We tried one piece of cheap stuff and it just doesn't work. You are under heating. 3M sais 150 degrees is the working temp for their wrap, so don't be afraid. We did the whole nose with just two pieces, the doors are one piece, the rear fenders are one piece up to the center of the door. Two, sometimes three people, heat as needed. Metalics and mirror can be over stretched, but it takes allot to do that. Hood took us two hours, a complete rear fender, same. 698496985069851

Frank818

07-05-2017, 07:17 PM

Bought some Avery matte black today, I'll see how it compares. About same price as Vvivid, it's (Vvivid) said not to be the best but not the worst either. It's ok for the blue though, but for black I'll see how's Avery.

I have done quite many black inserts yet (and all this design idea started when I saw Retro's result when he first posted pix of his wrap lol), so since the color is slightly different between the 2 brands (should be), I have to be careful as to where I'll use Avery. So far only the side scoops and rear spoiler caused me discoloration.

Avery does not have the blue I was looking for, couldn't find it elsewhere than Vvivid. But like I said that's ok for blue at the moment, I don't seem to have the issues of the black.

Retro I did the hood in 1 piece, 1 person. Just needed some heat at the very bottom front and of course the super highly pointy arrows on either side of the windshield.
Yeah about heat, it seems a good job requires as little heat as possible. But does heating at say 100F is called heating and would overstretched? How much heat can be used before there's too much and it'll peel off after some time? That I don't know and it varies from one vinyl to another. But when I saw that video about the guy who doesn't heat to wrap a car, he heated a little the door handle showing how people wrap using heat and then showed how it peels off after. This is why I'm afraid to use heat at all. But then again it may depend on the vinyl.

Frank818

07-08-2017, 07:39 PM

Like I said, some difference between the Avery matte black and Vvivid matte black.

Vvivid is on the lower left.

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Vvivid has a deeper black and more... vivid. I prefer the vivid colors of Vvivid but in this particular case (rear spoiler), it was too hard to do a one piece with the matte black. If Avery can do it, I'll live with it.

Hell even The Stradman uses Vvivid, see at 1:05.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciMlTB86lFk

After scrapping a full 51x34 piece for the door (and 2h), I finally found a way to wrap the doors alone with just 2 hands. You really need to get creative when you are wrapping alone!! If anyone does it and wants to know my trick, let me know.

Unfortunately, I couldn't wrap the doors with 1 piece. I needed to do an inlay, which I messed up on the passenger's door of course, we can see a thin white line. I have an idea to fix it and it's gonna be very rare that someone could see it anyway, so that's ok. Worst case I can re-do it, that's the good thing with wrap. BTW Avery's matte films are good for 12 years, they say, if mostly indoors. Wraps are getting better every year.

But if you wrap, beware, when you peel off the wrap to reposition, it will peel off some of the gel coat touches you applied and will expose crevices and pinholes you spent so much time fixing. Then since the gel coat is stick onto the wrap, it will build an imperfection if you reposition. No, it's not that easy to remove dust or dirt from the sticky surface!

I found another trick: to make it easier to wrap without wrinkles or other issues, I use different color inlays. It takes some time to prep, apply, cut, etc. but it's easier on the sharp corners. And it will give a nice distinctive color scheme. When you can't physically beat wrap, you need to get smarter.

Frank818

07-08-2017, 07:42 PM

Here's another one for you guys: left side vs right side WHEELBASE needs to have a 10mm or less difference. If one side has a longer wheelbase by more than 10mm, you're illegal.

I have 6mm. Phew!

phil1734

07-08-2017, 08:48 PM

Here's another one for you guys laughing at my DMV: left side vs right side WHEELBASE needs to have a 10mm or less difference. If one side has a longer wheelbase by more than 10mm, you're illegal.

That's probably to prevent someone from trying to register a circle track car.

Frank818

07-09-2017, 10:18 AM

Yeah maybe Phil, I didn't know those cars had different wheelbase. I asked the DMV guy the effect of that and they don't know! They are looking into it, he said.

Does it make a car turn easier in the direction of the shorter wheelbase?

phil1734

07-09-2017, 12:49 PM

Yes, but it has more to do with most circle track cars running a solid axle rear end, and if you angle the axle you're essentially dialing in a bunch of rear toe.

Generally speaking, doing so is a last ditch effort to get a car to turn in and is simply masking a more complex/difficult issue with the front end, the same way dialing in a bunch of rear toe on any car will help it rotate on turn in at the expense of grip everywhere else on track.

On a car with independent suspension there are a lot more steering moments, jacking forces, etc that come into play but the net effect is similar, with the one big difference being that it doesn't "dog-track" in straight lines.

phil1734

07-09-2017, 12:52 PM

P.S. One of the 12 incredibly simple requirements for registration in Michigan is having a "differential" - it's so you can't build a street-legal go-cart. :D

Frank818

07-09-2017, 06:54 PM

Tnx for the info Phil.

Having a diff in the gearbox? What if you go EV without a gearbox? lolll You could plate an EV go-cart! loll
But in the end I admit, having a diff is a requirement that checks off by itself. :)

Is Mike with the plastidip black 818C in Michigan too? I'll check his thread. I remember he had a few requirements, probably around 10, and needed to pass inspection twice.

phil1734

07-09-2017, 08:09 PM

If you want to laugh and raise your blood pressure at the same time, the requirements for michigan are here:
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/TR-54_38480_7.pdf

And it's literally only the first page of that too. The only functional checks I had were for lights and wipers. Otherwise the car never even moved or ran. Took one call to the state police to send a trooper out and 30-40 minutes right in my garage at home.

Haven't heard of a Mike, but there are one or two on the registries that I've never met or talked to so he could be one of them.

Frank818

07-10-2017, 07:43 PM

What the? "One" taillight? lolll
No ****! Windshield washers! I thought QC was the only place in the world asking for that. How come I haven't seen anyone's solution for that.
What are you doing with the front bumper? The frame is about 10" from the ground. Rear not sure, might not even clear 14". Or do the fiberglass panels count as bumpers?
"where the original design included a tailpipe and resonator" - What "original" design? And does a resonator = a muffler?

A lot of vague rules, which makes it easy to comply with if they aren't picky. But even taken to the hardest and most restrictive way, pretty easy.

phil1734

07-11-2017, 06:24 AM

My solution for the washers was to keep the donor one and zip tie it in place for inspection. If you head over to the Roadster or any dune buggy forums you'll find that most pass inspection by keeping a bottle of windex in the passenger seat.

The bumpers are supposed to be 2.5mph bumpers, which the 818 clearly doesn't have, but my inspector said implementing them would ruin the look of the car so he signed off on it ;).

In all reality, the definitions of everything there should be per the Michigan vehicle code, but since nobody has ever read that common sense and logic prevails.

Frank818

07-11-2017, 06:16 PM

Gee, ridiculously funny. Let's keep America great always! :)

Frank818

07-11-2017, 06:20 PM

Avery vs Vvivid.

The Avery films are easier. Easier to reposition, thinner film, more malleable, stretch easily too. However they still discolor but less than than Vvivid, it's barely noticeable so I can live with it. Too bad the matte black color is not as cool as Vvivid's. Avery smells weird though. Smells like... church stuff or some funeral stuff, weird. Anyway took 30mins to wrap my rear spoiler! Only 30mins! I then continued on the front nose (with Vvivid) and I see I'm getting faster in wrapping, now.

If you want Avery's colors, then get Avery (or 3M), it's easy and fast wrapping. Just don't mind about the smell. loll

Vvivid smells hard vinyl. So hard every time I enter my garage I can smell it.

Frank818

07-11-2017, 06:23 PM

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Do you have any idea how many inlays I used for this part? 14!!! FOR TEEN!!! I mean FOUR-TEEN! I think this will be by far the longest part to wrap. Hum 25-30h I'd say. But what a final result. And it'll probably get chipped soon enough... :(

mikeb75

07-11-2017, 08:01 PM

Looks fantastic, Frank! That matte black looks so smooth, like what my 'dipped car would want to be when it grows up.

Frank818

07-12-2017, 06:48 PM

It is smooth and deep, really nice matte black color. Highly recommended, just be careful not to hot spot it or stretch it too much.

Frank818

07-12-2017, 06:49 PM

For the WRX guys out here, do you want the smallest and lightest EJ in the world? For quite cheap?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5oRsvRH_Ig

I never said it would put out power (at all) or last long. :)

turbomacncheese

07-13-2017, 08:51 PM

Cool!!

Frank818

07-14-2017, 06:18 PM

Now that I'm getting closer to drive this thing on the roads, I decided to re(10)-watch "Gone In Sixty Seconds (2000)" in case I could find a name for my car. Friends at work told me I should name it, after all that work, impossible issues that happened and that I'm getting through. They're right.

I named her VIRGINIA. Like the not-seen Porsche 959 in the movie. The 959 has always been my kid's dream car, the opponent of the F40. Since I'm no kid anymore, it will then always remain.

Virginia is not taken from the US State, although it's a nice one I've been to and where most of The X-Files series are happening (fan of that too).

Let's call it "Virgie" or "Sexy Virgie", for the intimates.

I could not name it "Eleanor", as this strictly only applies to '67 Shelby GT500 metallic grey with black stripes. And nothing, absolutely nothing else.

metros

07-14-2017, 07:34 PM

Love the mini engine!

Canadian818

07-14-2017, 07:40 PM

I named my car as well, "bet" after my late aunt Betty. She was loud and annoying, but we wouldn't have her any other way so it seemed fitting.

I believe the x-files was filmed in the Vancouver area, but set in the US. A lot of shows are filmed in BC.

iblackwe

07-14-2017, 10:52 PM

I have actually named my car Fritz.... for having to take the motor out of it for now the 4th time.

Frank818

07-15-2017, 11:15 AM

She was loud and annoying

HAHAHAHA!!

I believe the x-files was filmed in the Vancouver area, but set in the US. A lot of shows are filmed in BC.

You're right, what I meant is where they claim to be (often eastern states and most often Virginia). The true filming in real life was a lot in Canada if I recall too.

I have actually named my car Fritz.... for having to take the motor out of it for now the 4th time.

loll
But 4 times that sucks!

I didn't know so many people named their car, I'm happy to know how you all named it.

If anyone else named his car, please let us know. :)

Frank818

07-16-2017, 07:22 PM

Getting there, tabarnak!

70626706277062870629706307063170632706337063470635

07-16-2017, 07:32 PM

Looking good

Frank818

07-16-2017, 07:32 PM

When I make a mistake with the wrap, like cutting too small a piece and after 2h of wrapping I realize it's too small, or heating up the film in order to stretch it in areas where I have no other choice (unless I inlay) and the film breaks, then to fix it I simply get creative and play with colors and angles! Instead of having the section all blue or all black I then create a style using bi-colors. Kinda lucky so far it didn't turn out bad. If I had a 3rd color (like yellow!) I could do even better, but I think it's quite awesome as it is and no one will ever see those defects, unless the person has an incredible eye or stares at a section for longer than 5-10sec, which will probably never happen cuz the entire car will attract attention and people will try to see every cm square at the same time. Lucky to have an 818 for that! lolll

Frank818

07-16-2017, 07:33 PM

Looking good

Hey Ben! Tnx esti! loll

flynntuna

07-16-2017, 09:32 PM

Loving that color combo.

STiPWRD

07-17-2017, 08:00 AM

I'm definitely liking the color scheme too, which blue wrap is that?

Frank818

07-17-2017, 06:29 PM

Smurf Blue (Riviera Porsche GT3) from Vvivid. https://vvividshop.com/collections/automotive-films/products/2017-vvivid-matte-smurf-blue-riviera-porsche-gt3-blue

More pix tomorrow, one from a complete side sail! Not without issues lolll, but my creativity got me out of it after sweating a lot. loll

Frank818

07-17-2017, 06:35 PM

I have a great wrap tip. Sometimes when you remove the inner paper by sliding between the film and body, you then start working on an area. And while you reposition the film it's possible the paper bends and stick on the film without you knowing. When you try to remove the twisted paper it tears off and leaves paper residue on the sticky film side, almost IMPOSSIBLE to remove with finger nails or stuff like that.

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No worries, use any cloth filled up with water and rub on the paper.

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Once the paper is just some rolled paper bits and it's still wet, us a dry cloth to remove the rest. Let it dry and re-apply, good as new!

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Frank818

07-17-2017, 06:37 PM

This looks like a big hole!

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But actually wrapping over it hides the hole completely. I spent way too much time gel coating the body for nothing.
Thing is, this hole wasn't there, I already gel coated it, but after applying the wrap and repositioning it, it took it off. That's the thing with wrapping.

mikeb75

07-17-2017, 07:12 PM

I've become a big fan of body filler (been using Evercoat Rage Gold) for filling pits like that. Quick apply and dry and sands easily - especially if you are covering it with something.

Looking forward to seeing your side panel. Virginia is going to be eye-catching.

Canadian818

07-17-2017, 07:40 PM

Looking great man! And I like how the interior and exterior share a colour scheme.

Frank818

07-18-2017, 07:08 PM

I've become a big fan of body filler (been using Evercoat Rage Gold) for filling pits like that.

I should have tried that instead of the gel coat, maybe it would have prevented those gel coat bits to come off when you reposition the wrap.
Anyone thinking of wrapping, follow Mike's advice.

Virginia is going to be eye-catching.

I think it will be a magnet as big as one from a particle accelerator. Especially here people don't see rare cars often. One-offs, probably never in a life time.
That blue and black makes it stand out SO much. On the pix the blue is too light, in person it's much deeper.

Looking great man! And I like how the interior and exterior share a colour scheme.

Tnx yes that was the plan, follow some kind of color scheme. Then when I make mistakes (like on the sails I did again, and twice!) I gotta create a new scheme. loll

Frank818

07-18-2017, 07:23 PM

5 weeks of vacations should help me complete this car. Not true vacations but anyway, I gotta finish this. loll

Side sail completely done. You can see the black discoloration on the top of the side scoop. I think I will re-do those. But later, like this autumn or winter.

707847078570786707877078870789

The sail has its wrap challenges, as well as all other parts (except the rear deck lid which was quite easy). When you get to the mid-lower section of the front of the wheel (just rear of the side opening), you get not enough wrap and need to heat a bit to stretch a bit.
But at the same time on the front of the side opening (the section where it starts to indent), you get way too much wrap or the 110"x34" piece of wrap (POW loll) gets twisted towards the bottom and ends up with big wrinkles. No way I could make it with my wrap expertise, so I cut the opening and needed to fill with black inserts. Needed to think of a color pattern here to get me out of trouble. At first the line was better and thiner, smoother, but then I realized I cut the blue wrap too high and needed to add a second layer over the lower thin black layer. To make it a medium layer. lolll Oh well, it's still quite covered by the side scoop so that's ok.

The rear fender, scoop opening along with a thin blue layer on the bottom of the sail (bottom of door) took me almost 20h (that's not the whole side sail!! Just portions of it). Cuz I needed to think along the way. But the other sail should be faster now that I know what to do and how.

Figured I should post some pix of the engine, I'm not sure I ever did! DMV is asking for some so I had to take a few without seeing any frame mods I did. loll Like cutting the top horizontal V bars and changing their angle...

7079170792

Frank818

07-18-2017, 07:25 PM

What did you guys do to cover/hide the reels?
Sure I could put some carpet over, but I don't know which removable bonding method to use, one that will stick on the carpet hard enough and one that will stick the carpet to the other carpet hard enough. But all removable.

70793

Frank818

07-18-2017, 07:34 PM

Now it's time for some beers and relax, just like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Wk_0A0kT8

flynntuna

07-18-2017, 10:58 PM

Love the #1 of 1 on the side, But I thought with your experience with this one it would be #1 of at least 2...:rolleyes:

Frank818

07-19-2017, 06:31 PM

Love the #1 of 1 on the side, But I thought with your experience with this one it would be #1 of at least 2...:rolleyes:

Should read "#1 and 2 of 2" lolll

Frank818

07-19-2017, 06:34 PM

Pretty killa.

70846

There will be 2 more pieces of blue and 2 more of black.

After trying Avery's wrap again I can really say it's much easier to apply. I can apply/reposition/remove wrinkles with one hand using my thumb, but with Vvivid's I need always both hands/thumbs and sometimes more (which I don't have). I can definitely apply a piece of wrap faster with Avery. Too bad they don't have my colors.

Canadian818

07-19-2017, 07:25 PM

Looking really good! How are you finding the cut tape?

Frank818

07-19-2017, 07:52 PM

How are you finding the cut tape?

Question being "where do I get the cut tape" or "what are my impressions of the cut tape"?

Who said I used cut tape here? lolll

I partially did.

The blue headlights/flashers where hand cut with a good ol' exacto but the black was all cut tape.

Another advice for "w"rappers: you've got 5 friends in your life:

- Knifeless tape
- Knifeless tape
- Knifeless tape
- Heat gun
- Manual exacto

lolll

I'd say 100meters of tape and you're good for some awesome color schemes and inlays.
No color schemes, 50m should be enough.
10m is a little short!

Hindsight

07-20-2017, 02:09 PM

Looking great Frank. I really like the black-out upper bumper.

fastzrex

07-20-2017, 05:50 PM

I don't think I can be a w'rapper', looks like too much skill is involved.

It really is coming together, may have to do a 'black out' on the tail of mine when the time comes. I suspect I will try 'dipping' the car after getting a base coat applied.

Frank818

07-20-2017, 06:12 PM

Looking great Frank. I really like the black-out upper bumper.

Looks cooler now with the lower section. Friday (tom) I wrap the middle section and send in some pix of the final result.
But I admit, the black on the upper section has some great taste. The wrap makes the curves stand out more (especially the small section between the lights) and since that black has a tint of reflection to it, it looks way cooler. Tnx to Retro for showing me the idea of the color pattern.

I don't think I can be a w'rapper', looks like too much skill is involved.

It's my 1st time on what I think is a quite difficult car. Needs patience, a bit of practice, but you get the hang of it quickly.
You can easily do a lot of nice patterns with wrap, but I have no idea how long it lasts after getting hit with road rocks. Cuz one small defect and it's not fixable other than removing the entire wrap of that panel and re-doing it. Unlike dip, which you can fix easily.

Frank818

07-21-2017, 08:13 PM

Hum, didn't turn out as awesome as I was expecting. Or is it just the light's reflection....

70903

The addition of the blue on the most part + the blue insert in the middle bottom makes it look like a blue/black checker's flag, or like my garage floor. lolll

I ran out of long stretch of black so I had to be creative again and inserted blue in the middle bottom.

It seems to tame off the upper black a little bit, watcha think Jeff?
I think the black on white shows off more.

One thing's for sure, if anyone wants a black car, that Vvivid black is absolutely amazing! I would do the entire car in black (mike? lolll). There's a slight addition of reflective material to it and I think it gives it a special touch of its own.

Not much left now. Left door, half of the left side sail and both front fenders. I give it 4 days.

Frank818

07-23-2017, 07:32 PM

2 panels left for wrapping. The front fenders.

For those who thought the 3D printed Subaru H4 wasn't enough, how about mating it with an I4, to get more power?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LglOUj7AsQA

flynntuna

07-23-2017, 10:21 PM

RetroRacing

07-24-2017, 10:51 AM

THat looks great! We had to do the rear in 2 pieces, is yours seamed in the middle?

fastzrex

07-24-2017, 01:50 PM

Things have come a long way since I was a kid. In the 60's ans 70's all we had that would be similar was the invisible engine. I remember getting one for Christmas one year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_-S6toks-c

I was real excited one Christmas to receive the same. I went on with my own funds to eventually get the visible transmission, and visible chassis. And then mated them together! Two much drag for it to move very far under its own power, though. It was the start of mechanical fascination.

Frank818

07-25-2017, 08:15 PM

Frank818

07-25-2017, 08:18 PM

THat looks great! We had to do the rear in 2 pieces, is yours seamed in the middle?

Actually no, I didn't seam any of the rear when visualizing a horizontal line. I did the blue all in one piece. It wasn't that bad, I must say.

Here's a better pic that gives better justice.

71081

Frank818

07-25-2017, 08:25 PM

Front fenders (new nose ones) are probably the most difficult pieces. What can I do with so much wrap??

This?

71106

Or that?

71107

In the end I ended up doing this seam (this is front of the other side's fenders relative to the 1st 2 pix)

71108

But, good news, the car is COMPLETE! I just need to re-install parts together, hope that nothing changed since the last test fit I did, and then I'm off for the whole inspection process.

Overall for "building", 3077h.
Wrapping took me 167h, including about 10h of body work I needed to do to prevent some imperfections.

In the end the wrap has many imperfections, 90% of them are caused by gel coat sticking on the wrap when repositioning. That sucks but hey, I got an inspection to pass and they don't give a damn about the paint (wrap) job. I can still pay someone to get it re-wrapped perfectly one day, that doesn't affect how the car drives and I'm sure no one other than me will see those imperfections.

flynntuna

07-25-2017, 10:05 PM

Did you blow it up since? loll

It's in the same place that my comic books, baseball cards, and socks the dryer ate are.

flynntuna

07-25-2017, 10:08 PM

The attachments aren't working

Frank818

07-26-2017, 06:31 PM

The attachments aren't working

Fixed it. Strange they were there before but anyway.

Frank818

07-26-2017, 06:49 PM

Went at the track this morning.

1h45mins of driving and tuning. Needed to stop cuz I had fuel starvation when accelerating in corners. My tank was pretty empty too.

On the bad things, my RPM needle broke off in half, I need to glue the 2 pieces back together (was already broken for years and I can't find a VR6 replacement part for these) and my Meziere 20GPM WP136S AWIC pump seized up on 1st start up. I wonder if it's cuz I'm using 100% water at the moment (since 1 year) until I pass inspection and then use coolant like I did use for many years before and never had a problem. I hope I can un-seize it, otherwise it's another USD$220 that'll go on the car.

The car was running much better than last time on May 27th. Nothing broke, moved, worn out, exploded, unbolted, leaked, got cut-off, etc.

That handling though is amazing. I did several quick and hard left-rights (like auto-cross) and I could feel the tires working. This chassis is not flexing at all and I didn't feel any roll.

I can't get the brakes to bed in yet, they don't seem to brake very hard, I can brake much faster with my Subaru. Or maybe having the proportional valve fully closed on the front brakes makes them work less than expected.

And the engine sound... well every 500rpm passed 2.5k it gets more and more amazing. And passed 4k off boost or not full boost is incredible. Sounded super smooth like a V12 or something. The lower the RPM the more burp-burp-burp of every cylinder firing you can hear but passed 4k it's so quick it makes the sound constant and amazing.

I think there is plenty of torque off boost at low RPMs. I believe this car can be driven with nice fun downtown, off boost, and if I require more power I let it rev. I just reached 0.6bar (8.7psi) today cuz I limited my EBC for that and I felt some violent power already. I just cannot, really cannot, imagine how violent it would be when pushing 18psi. If the engine doesn't explode then, I'll be the 1st one surprised.

frankc5r

07-26-2017, 08:01 PM

Congrats on a good run and everything working so well. Get a Bosch AWIC pump. Quiet, lots flow and cheap at Frozen Boost.com

Bob_n_Cincy

07-26-2017, 08:12 PM

Good job frank

RetroRacing

07-27-2017, 10:24 AM

Great to hear!!!

Frank818

07-27-2017, 07:28 PM

This FFR tank (1st gen) is really crap. Anyway.

I un-seized my pump! I can't believe I did that, I'm sure 99% of people (the 1% are probably on this forum loll) would have bought a new 220 bucks pump.

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You see the pink top section on 1st pic? That rotates inside the 2 magnets on the 3rd pix. Those magnets are pushed onto the pink stator or something by 2 springs, one of which you see on pic #3. It took me hours to reinstall this!! Without special tools, it's super hard to push the magnets back in while dropping the top cap onto the stem and pump. You don't have enough clearance between the cap and top of pump cover to keep the magnets pushed while you push the cap on. I had to use some sticky tape and had to left it in. But it worked!

only when connected directly to the batt. My button doesn't work, so I suspect one of the 2 fuses blew up. If it's the worst one, it'll take me about 25h to replace due to cascading effects (need to remove console, seats, under seat cover, e-brake cover and drill a 1/4-20 SS bolt to remove the e-brake cover cuz I stripped the bolt's head when bolting the cover on a while back and was hoping never to remove it DOOOOOH!!!!!!). I'll try to find my way around differently!!!! I've got no time for a 25h fix job! Got to put the body on, take pictures for DMV and pass inspection.

Here's a better view of my rear bumper with tail lights on. I now think it looks pretty cool!

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STiPWRD

07-28-2017, 07:46 AM

The bumper turned out real nice, can't wait to see the whole car wrapped!

Frank818

07-28-2017, 07:05 PM

The bumper turned out real nice, can't wait to see the whole car wrapped!

Can't wait either! Couple more days, if I don't get any issues re-installing everything.

Frank818

07-28-2017, 07:12 PM

Completely fixed the seized up pump. I'm amazed I unseized a pump! Come on, before the 818 I would have NEVER been able to do such a thing and would have paid 220 to buy a new one.

Here's a video of it working again.

http://youtu.be/oEi4vFJGa3A

This fix made me realize why Meziere's is making quite some noise. It's not the pump, it's the cup at the bottom, the bowl in which water goes through and has the inlet and outlet. As soon as put that bowl back on, it made more noise. I guess the sound resonates inside.

I have solidified my custom VW cluster brackets, they made the cluster vibrate too much. I just need to glue the 2 pieces of my RPM needle back together and I reinstall the dash.

I have started installing under car panels then I follow with body panels. Couple of days and it should form a COMPLETE car for the 1st time. Of course in "inspection" mode, as there will be many changes right after inspection BEFORE I 1st test drive it on the streets.

AZPete

07-29-2017, 03:26 PM

Frank, I remember that you initially had your 818 wired so you could start it from your smart phone, but then re-wired it with a start key for the QC inspection. Reading about the new Tesla Model 3, I see that there is no start key or button because it is started (turned on) from a smart phone app. Tesla has copied you!! How will your inspection guys handle the Model3? :D

It's good to see you are doing so well with the wrap and I look forward to whole-car pics. And, congrats on the pump repair. Learning new stuff is part of the fun for many of us, along with the thrill of success.

Frank818

07-29-2017, 08:03 PM

Tnx Pete.

I did install a physical start-stop button following yet another non-written DMV rule. It's too late the hole is made and all is functioning. :( Although I admit the button is cool and will not work if I don't press some other buttons that are exclusively on a touchscreen, so I am not losing my security feature here.

I read the Motor Trend's review of the red Tesla 3 but didn't see anything about how it starts.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesla/model-3/2018/exclusive-tesla-model-3-first-drive-review/

What's the article you're referring to?

To answer your question, when there are changes promoted by manufacturers usually the DMV is forced to adapt. There are no "international manufacturers'" car that I'm aware of that are legal elsewhere in Canada but not in QC, so I guess here all the stuff is done by Canada Transport and they pass over the new rules and trends to the Provinces.
Very curious to understand how the engine "turns on" on the 3!

Frank818

07-30-2017, 07:09 PM

While Pete is looking for his lost article loll, this is the quick strengthening I did on the VW cluster custom brackets. I did it on one side, not sure it's necessary to do on the other but I might.

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I put heat insulation on the engine covers. The EZcool bits, I'm not sure they'll hold up. I used Super77 glue but standing as on the pix, after a few hours some areas started to peel off slightly. I solidified with aluminum tape but still. Hopefully it won't peel off while driving.

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It takes time to put the panels together. For example the diffuser was somehow slightly off in some holes and it took me 2h to fix holes. Then when trying to bolt through the rear dumper (and diffuser at same time) it didn't align again. Must fix that tomorrow. Obviously after a full installation is done once, everything together in its final locations, it's easier for the next times but now is the time I don't have time, I wanted to be at the police station by Tuesday to check for stolen parts (takes about 3h!), but I can't.

When you are perfectionist, in these builds there's always something that doesn't work and costs you a lot of time. The build sort of never ends.

Frank818

07-30-2017, 07:33 PM

What have you guys done to protect the fiberglass in the FRONT wheel arches? The top section is unprotected.

Not sure I've seen any solution other than rocker panel paint (undercoating), which doesn't last on aluminum (I've tried 3 kinds), I have no reason to think it would "protect" the fiberglass from chipping or cracking when hit by rocks.

The EZCool stuff? That stuff will get destroyed as soon as a rock hits it, I can cut the 1st thin foil layer with just the end of a measuring tape, so...

AZPete

07-30-2017, 11:48 PM

Frank, here's a description of the Tesla 3 start via phone app:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/28/your-smartphone-is-the-key-for-the-tesla-model-3/?ncid=mobilenavtrend

Yoga mat is the answer to your second question. On my FFR roadster I got star-shaped cracks in the paint on the top of the front fenders even though I had applied several coats of undercoating. I solved the problem by gluing closed-cell foam to the underside of the front fenders with silicon sealant. Worked beautifully for years. On my 818 I have done the same, but I found that a cheaper and better closed-cell foam is 1/4" yoga mat.

Frank818

07-31-2017, 07:26 PM

Damn, yoga mat, that simple? Missed that on your thread. Bought one at local Canadian Tire shop (not sure your USA equivalent) and will install tomorrow. If it can last 2 years in a 125F every day weather for 365 days, then it should last for 6 months in a 77F weather. lolll

That article is pretty clear, very interesting!

I am now up to the last door, the rear is done apart from engine covers. Not sure I'll finish the front tomorrow as I have to fit the driver's door and install the yoga mat in the fenders.
Yes the diffuser is installed along with belly pan, all with those NICE black countersunk 1/4-20 ALLSTARS bolts from Amazon.

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So far when I look at the rear and side panels from the rear, 3/4 view and side view, it looks so.... so... nah I'll wait until I'm done to show you. :)

However I'm not sure if my wrap will last more than a couple of drives. It peeled off in a very few (2) gel coat areas and doesn't seem to stick very hard in the fiberglass areas. I added some sticky aluminum tape in those areas to make it last longer. Maybe I just didn't press enough on the film in the gel coat areas, which I did today so I'll see.

RetroRacing

08-01-2017, 10:49 AM

Ya, it will not stick to waxed gel coat (not that you waxed it, it's a type) nor will it stick to waxed resin unless you sand it, then clean it with a pre-paint degreaser and wax remover. Use a fresh piece of sand paper each time as well.

Frank818

08-01-2017, 04:50 PM

Crap that explains. Too late then. I'll live with the fixes I did and will see next winter. However I did sand before but not used degreaser. Hopefully the caulking will stick better to hold the yoga mat inside the front fenders.
The gelcoat was de-waxed and heavily sanded, should stick well there.
The small areas where it peeled on the outside of the panels were where I had overlaps, so the film not sticking on itself. I seem to have fix it as well, maybe I didn't apply enough heat/pressure at post-installation.

The wrap is very fragile! You drop a screwdriver and it will cut the wrap. This is fixable with paint and clearcoat but not with wrap. Also my left side striker was rubbing SLIGHTLY on the door panel and it cut the wrap. I needed to dremel the striker.
Cannot imagine how bad it will chip on the bottom front side of the side sails, rocks being thrown off by the wheel. Thinking of a mud flap but only this winter, no time before.

I did however apply another layer of insulation for the hot coolant lines and also used the great countersunk bolts on the bumper-to-fenders, works awesome.

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AZPete

08-01-2017, 10:52 PM

" . . . 2 years in a 125F every day weather for 365 days . . ."
Ouch, Frank, you just killed a big chunk of our tourism business. From October thru June we get flooded with waves of people from Canada and other frozen lands, who enjoy sunny days in the 70's, aka the 20's in the C scale. :D After what the QC DMV is putting you through, you deserve a trip here next winter. Leave your mukluks and mittens at home because the only ice here is in margaritas.

Full-car photos yet?

Frank818

08-02-2017, 07:33 PM

This is how Mr Arizona's yoga looks like:

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On my build I needed EXACTY a 24"x68" mat. I mean "exactly" as in 1mm more or less would not fit.
I'm not sure I put enough silicone sealant to stick it to the fglass, hopefully I did cuz it's kinda late now! I'll know tomorrow. I put some weights inside the fender to press the mat on the flgass. If it works, I'll waste time buying another tube of sealant and will glue the driver's side.

No full car pix yet man, the driver's door took me a LOT of time to align. Since everything is wrapped, I can't mod the panels now. There is still a hard push required on the driver's door to open it, but it closes super well. The pass's door opens by itself by just pulling the handle. I'm pissed, why I have to push hard on the driver's door? Oh well... I'll waste (not spend) another few hours tomorrow trying to find a better angle on the striker or trim it more somewhere, so far both didn't help much.

Once both fenders are glued with super Yoga mats, I'm fitting the front end. I guess by Sunday all should be fitted. It's always VERY LONG to adjust details, that is really killing.
I can already tell the the 2/3s backwards look AWESOME. Opening and closing both doors with inner finished panels on is a great feeling. The car looks very race right now, with the extended diffuser and the black inserts on blue. That really really stands out.