Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

And I'm in!!! :D

Ok around Oct 2014 (now April 26th!), but if anyone wants to discuss about this uncommon build, I'll be happy to help.

After this thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11617-VAG-VR6-engine-tranny-viable I have now decided to move on for real.

My plan as of Nov 2013:

- Use my VW engine, ECU and tranny in place of the Subaru drivetrain;
- Buy a wrecked Impreza or an AJW pallet for the other parts (sell the engine/tranny if I get one from AJW);
- Build it, drive it and become immortal so that I can have fun until the end of times.

Expected delivery date:
Oct 11th 2014 (but could be sooner due to production ramp-up, or Hot List! And it is, now scheduled for April 26h 2014)

I'm 37, currently no kids, a perfect timing.

Engine specs:

- Too many details, but it's a 1993 Corrado 2.8L VR6 AAA OBDI cable throttle engine with 104k km (65k miles);
- 12v, 263 cams;
- GT3582R 0.70AR compressor/0.63AR turbine;
- Power is yet unknown, as I have to finish up on the dyno next spring hopefully. All I can say is I use tires 3% higher than OEM, wider (215), heavier wheels, shod with Yokohamas ADVAN Nuevo AD08 (very sticky for a road tire) and yet I manage to make the wheels spin on 3rd gear when I hit full boost around 3300-3400. According to many modified VR6s, when it spins in 3rd it's cuz you most probably cracked 400wtq. It's just a rule of thumb, by no mean scientific;
- EuroSpecSport 6-sp close ratio Rally Short transmission (tall 1st gear). This tranny has an awesome whining noise without being straight cut. 1st: 2.7, 2nd: 1.8, 3rd: 1.45, 4th: 1.15, 5th: .96, 6th: .85 FD: 3.66;
- ECU: DTA S80 Pro full stand alone system.


Garage, when completely naked a couple of years ago (660ft/sq, 2 cars inline (4 if they are Smart Fortwo lolll):

232442324523246


Engine:

23247


Drivetrain donor (license plate is no longer valid):

2324823249


My racer!

23250


My Sport Touring bike (which I use for long rides in the States):

23251



I know some people will really appreciate what I'll do here, I know some won't care and I know some will think I am stupid, for whatever reasons. Good for them. I have plans, I have a goal and like fateo66 (Zach) said, it's important to have high goals in order to do as much as possible to try to reach them, live our life, and sometimes reach these goals (Zach did I say that the way you thought of it? loll). I am prepared for this build and I have good people around me to help me go through and make it a success. Of course, the community of this forum will be of significant help to me as well, like it was since the beginning. I just hope I can give it as much in return.


Now, let's roll!

[NicksPapaw]

Another 818 Pioneer! Good for you Frank! We can't wait to see your adventure. Now start tearing that VW down and show us the pics. :)

[metalmaker12]

I have owned a few Vdubs, I had great success with the 1.8 T with an apr kit in a mkI. Yours is such a good power train, I am just not sure you can make it fit without lots of cutting, are you planning of just getting the frame in bare steel.

[wallace18]

Best of luck to you. It will be interesting to see the build.

[wleehendrick]

I have owned a few Vdubs, I had great success with the 1.8 T with an apr kit in a mkI.

Nice swap! I had a mkII GTI 16V for a looooooong time; pretty much stock drivetrain, with Neuspeed/Bilstein suspuension... loved the car. Remember, the proper way to drive a (watercooled) VW is: two wheels sticking, one wheel sliding, and one wheel in the air!

[metalmaker12]

It was a blast to drive, I managed low 12's with r compounds. a 818 with franks setup, it should be killer, btw I have a garage boner

[Frank818]

are you planning of just getting the frame in bare steel.

You mean not powder coated? Not sure yet, probably powder coated, 400 is not much and if I cut and weld I will use my own spray can to cover, I am not confident the guy I know can powder coat the frame for a reasonable price. But I got months to figure that out and I'll go whichever way costs less.

[Frank818]

a 818 with franks setup, it should be killer

I don't know yet about traction. :) I think what I'll do is tune the boost in a way to have about 15-20% wheel spin. I have an electronic controller which I use to set predetermined boost based on desired RPM, so that may help and prevent a sudden surge of 18psi. But I have to drive it first and see how it behaves. In 2 years! :(


Yes wleehendrick, they all tend to go on 3 wheels! :) But the 818 will not!

[metalmaker12]

I have run the 818 with different maps @7,12,14,16,and 18psi, all were fast, 14 up is insane

[Frank818]

And I have a 2.8L... I'll start with low boost!

[metalmaker12]

And I have a 2.8L... I'll start with low boost!

Yeah, well we all start low lol, but I think we all know were that ends up

[wleehendrick]

Yes wleehendrick, they all tend to go on 3 wheels! :)

Yup, I used to love freaking out friends driving behind me. Come to a tight corner, do a scandi flick or just an abrupt throttle lift, and then wait for it... "Dude, you were up on three wheels!" Yeah, they're meant to do that. :cool:


But the 818 will not!

Of course not, because with headlights from a Camry SE, it'll be "grounded to the ground"!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKRiCsZfx4k

[D2W]

This will be an awesome build. The VR6 is one of the best sounding engines ever, very exotic.

[Frank818]

Of course not, because with headlights from a Camry SE, it'll be "grounded to the ground"!

Lolll good one :)

[Frank818]

This will be an awesome build. The VR6 is one of the best sounding engines ever, very exotic.

Tnx man, I'll try to give it up all it deserves!

I really wonder with a 3" very short pipe and one muffler how the sound would be.

[Frank818]

Ok so I found the 2nd donor, the Subaru one. I mean I found the strategy to use.

I'll get a NA Impreza from 2002 to 2004, RUNNING ones with about 120k miles can be found for around CAD$2k (USD$1.9k). 2005+ are 5k+.

I am pretty sure I can sell the engine and tranny with full exhaust for about $1k, so that leaves me with donor parts worth $1k. Which is not much money considering I will use my VR6 engine/tranny and not pay 5-7k to upgrade a WRX engine. And I can, throughout a lot of time, sell all the non-required parts I would be left with after dismantling the donor. So all in all the donor parts would cost me 500-800 bucks.

In fact, just like in the USA, WRX are sold for quite some more around here, far most of the time over 5k. Running ones, that is. Wrecked ones are harder to look into as many needed parts could be damaged and I would need to buy them elsewhere, besides I don't see any difference between WRX and NA for the non-drivetrain parts. So why pay more for that kind of project.

Donor parts solved! :)

[Frank818]

Looking for wheels. I am opened to many specs, so it's hard to come down to one single choice.

TireRack told me this:

Unfortunately our business is set up using guaranteed fitments by vehicle search. If you have questions about offset, center bore, etc., on any certain wheel you can call us, but you will not see these search options online.

[Xusia]

Hey Frank,

I really think you should check out the XXR wheels. I spent a lot of time researching options (considering available sizes, price, tire fitment, etc.) and they have some really good all options. To be honest, I have no idea how tough they are (i.e. I can't say if they are suitable for racing), but for the price, I'm going to give them a try on the street. Many of their styles come in 17x7 +35 (which is well suited to a 215/40 tire), and 18x8.75 +33 (which is well suited to a 255/35, and maybe larger). Both offsets are well suited good for the 818. They come in several different colors, and Wayne is now a dealer.

In Erik's build thread you pondered the effects of moving the weight forward; thinking increased under steer would be the result. I'd really like to hear from someone who knows, because it seems to me moving weight forward would tend to move toward oversteer.

[Frank818]

Xusia, you are right again. I had the correct images of the 818 tail heading in my head, but I chose the word "understeer" instead of "oversteer". I corrected that on Erik's thread.

So yes I theoretically think it would oversteer a little much and to ponder the effect I believe a slightly wider rear tire would help. That being said, it all depends of the thread width and the tires I look for already have a thread width relatively large for road. Larger than Erik's 265s by a good margin. But section width is a tad smaller, which is good.

As for the wheels, XXRs are on my list, cuz they cost nothing (almost :)) and I don't plan on either racing the 818 or jumping it (I don't live in a San Francisco like area lolll), so strength is not my criterion. The reason why I have not signed on XXRs yet is cuz they don't attract my eyes as much as say Rota Torques or Metalmaker's Bremmer Kraft BR10s, not to mention the original looks of these copies (Work Emotion CR KAI/Ultimate and 57Xtremes, which are much pricier).

I agree the XXRs have a vast choice of offsets and widths and I believe they are offered in 9.5 in the rear. They are still on my list. :)

[Frank818]

Ok after looking around for wheels on my lunch time (unlike Mechie who CNC machines during lunch time and probably machined himself a set of custom wheels :)) I have set on something that I can find at RacingLabs.com.

Rota Torque Flat Black (or close to black, not sure which color yet) in these sizes:

FRONT: 17x7.5, +48 offset, 56.1 hub with 215/40/17 Section width of 8.6" and Overall diam of 23.7".
REAR: 18x9.5, +35 offset, 73.1 hub with 73.1 > 56.1 flat hub centric rings with 265/35/18 Section width of 10.6" and Overall diam of 25.4" (narrower tires than Erik's, but 0.1in taller).

I know the rears are extreme, but Erik fitted 9.5 +45mm using 10mm spacers (which makes the wheel a false +35mm), his tire is larger in section width and he said it fits great and would do it again. So I believe my choice would fit as well. I could still get 255s if I need to, they fit on 9.5".

Any thoughts?

[Xusia]

If you are buying rear trailing arms, might as well buy Wayne's to ensure no rubbing and widest tire possible.

[Frank818]

Absolutely, I have added on my list yesterday. The bigger the more expensive it gets. :)

Tnx for following up on my thread Xusia, you've been there since the beginning from the other VAG VR6 analysis thread. :)

[Mechie3]

Ok after looking around for wheels on my lunch time (unlike Mechie who CNC machines during lunch time and probably machined himself a set of custom wheels :))

I know the rears are extreme, but Erik fitted 9.5 +45mm using 10mm spacers (which makes the wheel a false +35mm), his tire is larger in section width and he said it fits great and would do it again.

Any thoughts?

:lol: I bought a set of XXR 530's in gold. Our machine here is limited to 22x16.

Check my thread. I previously fit an 18x9.5 in the rear using 1/2" spacer (~12mm). I hadn't set the alignment at all and it wasn't at ride height (no tire, just a wheel) but it just cleared. The spring was the closest thing. to touching.

[Frank818]

Yes I'll re-read that, I gotta check what wheel offset you used and then calculate the real offset (wheel offset-12mm in your case). 18x9.5? I thought they only made 18x9.75 as the closest to 9.5.

I checked the last 5 pages of your build, couldn't find the pix or mention of rear wheels test fit.

The 530s 18x9.75 are 20mm offset, no?

Oh maybe you are not talking of test fitting the 530s but instead other rear wheels in 18x9.5?

[Mechie3]

That was a test fit of my 18x9.5 Forgestar F14's. I sold them as I found they don't make a front wheel that fits the 818.

Also...my bad. I made a separate wheel thread. They were +48.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12122-18x9-5

[Frank818]

Oh! Yes I remember that thread. Completely forgot about it, or made me commit my mind on 18x9.5.

Yes I believe less camber would be a possibility or living with 1/4". To respect laws here I need 5mm. My tires are mostly square on the sidewall, but they are a tiddy wider than the rim. It's gonna be a tight fit!!! Worst case I use a small spacer and if they protrude outside the fender, I'll dig into fiberglass mods, my mech knows someone. Of course more costs, but that is my decision for going with 9.5 and 265s. Nothing to do with the VR6 swap.

[Frank818]

Who's with me for a drift in Oregon, USA, in our 818s? :)

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/is-this-the-finest-drift-video-ever-2013-11-4


Couple of updates on the run in the next few weeks, I'll post pix of parts.

[wleehendrick]

saw that on jalopnik yesterday!

[Xusia]

I'm 99% certain that's Maryhill Loops road. It's infamous in the sportbike community. I'd love to see all of you in Oregon, but if you do come, we'll have to drive a different road, because Maryhill Loops is private and they only let people on it for special occasions. NOT TO WORRY! There are plenty of other very good roads in Oregon (and I know most of them!). :)

Some more videos of that road:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=maryhill+loops&sm=3

[Frank818]

Definitely looks the same to me. And judging by all those special videos, looks about right when you say "for special occasions". :)
You seem to have such a great driving place. I am jealous for the least.

Now if I ever drive across East coast to Oregon, I really need a soft top. lolll

[metalmaker12]

To bad a mid engine car will not drift like that without even more practice.

[wleehendrick]

To bad a mid engine car will not drift like that without even more practice.

I was going to say that... Front Engine RWD are great to drift.... the low moment of inertia of a mid-engine that gives it great turn-in response means holding it on the edge of a drift is difficult to near impossible!

[Frank818]

Good thing for street/race driving, though. :)

[Frank818]

Got my first parts today!

24166

Front kit:

0.81" Thick x 12.00" O.D. Rotors
Dynapro 4 Calipers - Black
Caliper Mounting Brackets
BP-10 Smart Compound Brake Pads
Brake Hats
All Hardware necessary to install the complete braking system on both front wheels

Rear kit:

0.81" Thick x 12.19" O.D. Rotors
Dynapro 4 Calipers - Black
Caliper Mounting Brackets
BP-10 Smart Compound Brake Pads
Brake Hats
All Hardware necessary to install the complete braking system on both rear wheels

Black yes, red ones were 200 bucks more, so I kept black and I am planing on a blue/black car, didn't want to attract too much attention just on some red calipers. I may paint them blue if I want, we'll see.
Not drilled yes, slotted just to let the gases escape is enough.

Those discs are really small, I mean the braking surface. My VW discs are much bigger and are only 12.3" compared with 12"-12.2" on these. I guess the calipers bite a lot more so they increased rotor strength using better metal and didn't need that much surface. I dunno...

[Frank818]

Ok right now I am looking into paint wrap. Or film, actually.

Kalstar has become a dealer of http://www.ultimatepremiumplus.com/, made by Arlon.

http://www.arlon.com/Utilities-Product-ProductListing?SelVal=156869&SelLevel=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8tyMWrwnpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi_bcw2GXp0

But I also found www.alsacorp.com, with many choices. I love the chrome blue in there. Here's a nice Lambo in that (actually I think it's another brand, but it's damn close).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLUq6h718o
http://alsacorp.com/strechchrome/softouch_film/index.html

About 2.8k bucks for the 818 if using Alsa Corp, assuming 35ft length roll (by 5ft).

Then there are:

Avery Graphics http://graphics.averydennison.com/en/home/solutions/fleet-and-transportation/vehicle-wraps.html
3M Scotchprint Wrap Film http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Graphics/3Mgraphics/Products/Series1080/
Oracal http://www.orafol.com/gp/americas/en/products/specialty-films/vehicle-wraps-9831-product-detailsid/items/oracal-970ra-premium-wrapping-cast

The last 3 are in the range of 400 bucks for 5ftx35ft rolls (compact car). I have asked for a roadster if I can shed off 5ft and save 60-80 bucks.

One info worries me a little bit though, they all say the wraps last from 3 to 12 years (depends on brand, color, horizontal vs vertical installation, etc.). So what, after 5 years I have to remove the wrap, buy a new roll and restart the installation? Some say it's easily removable up to 5 years, then what after 5 years it's going to leave stuff on the panels or will be very hard to remove? I failed to find answers yet on that.


I am spending a lot of time trying to get the blue color I am looking for. The characteristics of all these products seem to be fairly the same, which means to me that this market looks well blended with similar offers. So the price/rebates or color will most probably tell me which one I will choose.


EDIT: For more info refer to http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12613-Vinyl-wraps-%28body-panels-but-also-inside%29&p=130332#post130332

[Frank818]

Ok my previous post aims to identify many different brands of wrapping film. My goal is that if anyone else plans on wrapping his 818, he can check this post (#35) and make a wise decision to his best interests. I will continue updating it if I find interesting information to share.

[Xusia]

Hey Frank, why not make a separate thread for this?

[Frank818]

Sure I did think about it. You think it's worth it?

[metalmaker12]

I will be wrapping parts, but painting most

[Frank818]

Hey Frank, why not make a separate thread for this?

Done, man. Anything for you, Xusia.

[Xusia]

Sure I did think about it. You think it's worth it?

Up to you. This is a build thread, but it's your build thread, so do what you want. I just though it might be easier for other folks to find.

[Frank818]

So after spending a lot of time learning about vinyl wraps, I decided to opt for Teckwrap www.teckwrap.com based in Maryland. I've seen a few reviews and compared the specs to the other brands and since the price is half of the others, it's so cheap I decided to give them a try. 5ftx50ft for $USD240!

I also bought some 4D CF Black for the 2 humps, maybe the rear spoiler and possibly a few accents inside the car. They have a store on eBay as well. So we'll see.

I still got a lot of parts to buy! :)

[Frank818]

This is what I got today in the mail:

24331

Projector lamps, double halos. No HID but I don't care as I don't plan on using the car very often at night.

So if FFR cannot give me credit for the OEM Camry headlight they provide with the kit, I will have a pair up for sale!

[Xusia]

Nice. I also bought a pair of those Spyders for my car. They looked just too good to pass up!

[Frank818]

Absolutely. And with your (USA) Tnxgiving rebates, I couldn't say no.
Now I am attacking the potential X-Mas rebates at VCP. :)

[DruOdil]

Where did you guys buy your spyders?
Dru

[Xusia]

AutoAnything.com

[Frank818]

TLN AUTOPARTS, an eBay seller.
Price with shipping was quite lower than RacingLab.com and 2 other places I have seen them.

[DruOdil]

So they are just the replacement for a Camry? What year?
Dru

[Frank818]

Absolutely!
Camry 2002-2006.

[Frank818]

Some other stuff came in today. LED strips with adhesive, bright red, which I will plug with the brake lights, I will use as a 3rd brake light. El cheapo stuff I know, but if it works and looks good, why not? :)

24364

[riptide motorsport]

Some other stuff came in today. LED strips with adhesive, bright red, which I will plug with the brake lights, I will use as a 3rd brake light. El cheapo stuff I know, but if it works and looks good, why not? :)

24364

Nothing wrong with being frugal!

[Frank818]

Got more stuff today.

24592

This is some adhesive faux-suede sheets. I got blue and black (not pictured). It will be for my dash, e-brake handle, seats, center console, inner door panels, probably s/w if I can wrap around and some other places maybe.

This thing is awesome!!!!!!! It is so smooth!!!!! I am very impressed of the quality. And as you can see, the finger marks show quite nice!

The eBay seller I did business with is from South Korea and he's blast! Second time I deal with these people (Korea, no this seller twice yet) and second time they ship in 3 business days!!! Unbelievable.

[Speedy G]

Good stuff!

Hey Frank, have you thought about the tranny shifter linkage? Have you talked to your mech about it? I'm worried that the length and direction of the cables will affect the viability of the shifter. Somehow the linkage has to move in the opposite direcction to shift. The shifter itself has to be mounted backwards so first would be to the right and down if the cables are mounted on the tranny the way they wer intended. I think we'll have to either fab the shifter itself, modify the tranny linkage, or mount some kind of reversing bracket on the tranny coupling. The thing is a reversing bracket is probably the easiest but will probably add flex to an already "flexy" tranny shifting mechanism. Any ideas?

Speedy G

[metalmaker12]

You guys are in for a treat to re-engineer this setup. I give you props, and admire it. But to be honest the subie platform is better in every way for this car. Godspeed

[Frank818]

Speedy, I not going down the route of re-using the VW shifter. I will use the K-Tuned shifter along with cables. Wayne will prep the correct length based on my measurements. Then I believe there will be some fab to do to make the cables and brackets work properly.

The OEM shifter on older VW (like the AAA engine) is not very precise, you are correct.




Metal, my plan is to minimize the use of non-Subie parts. I just want my engine and tranny in, as they have the perfect setup for my goal. Reaching this goal with subie drivetrain would cost me a lot more (in terms of $). The compromise is I will have to spend more time building and re-engineer a few things, but I keep it to the minimal. The shifter is not one of them (aside from the brackets, but Wayne did it, so why not me and my old mech).

[nkw8181]

Metalmaker I tried to send you a message but can't. Says you inbox is full

[metalmaker12]

Ok I will empty, send again

[Speedy G]

Mmm... That's awesome, you have a solution already! That was keeping me up at night.

Metalmaker, subies are cool, but if just think about what the cheapest way of getting ft lbs, for us it's a VR6 and a 1.8t VAG engines(I'm thinking about buying it back btw). I'd appreciate any insight you could give us. All I know is VAG engines, it sounds like you know a little more about FFR. I'll probably have a hard time because I'm considering not even using a subie donor.

[Xusia]

Hey Speedy, if one was already built and titled in the US, could you import it? I ask because IIRC you have only a year to complete the build, and the custom work you'll need to use a VW engine, have the creature comforts, etc., are going to take added time. If importing a completed one is an option, that might work out better...

[metalmaker12]

Mmm... That's awesome, you have a solution already! That was keeping me up at night.

Metalmaker, subies are cool, but if just think about what the cheapest way of getting ft lbs, for us it's a VR6 and a 1.8t VAG engines(I'm thinking about buying it back btw). I'd appreciate any insight you could give us. All I know is VAG engines, it sounds like you know a little more about FFR. I'll probably have a hard time because I'm considering not even using a subie donor.

I am actually well versed in Subie,Vw's and Hondas for imports. I have owned a few 1.8 and vr6 Gti's. My 1.8 was built and had the apr turbo kit and made like 375whp. I also had a Acura 94 Gsr built/turbo with over 400. I moved to Subies and never looked back. My last car which I sold for this project was a 2006 Sti with forged pistons and rods, stock crank, stock heads, 1000cc injectors, Perrin fuel rails, Gt35 custom kit, dry sump and custom oil pan, custom headers, act stage three clutch, pulley kit, custom intake and front mount kit, Methanol injection and some other **** lol with an opensource tune. I actually spent the least on the subie and made the most power 513 whp and it was the most reliable, well that and the honda. My vw motors held up good, but the trannies sucked. My subie 6 was stock except for clutch and so was my Gsr, and they held up good. I rebuilt several vw trannies.

Not knocking dubs they are great engines, and you gotta appreciate the over engineering. But the center of gravity of the boxer is the key element here. To get even close the vw drivetrain will have to be tilted a lot to even come close to fitting. I mean there is barely any room for the boxer to fit. You are going to have to literally cut the whole rear of the car apart and measure your butts off. Your best bet as I look at this is if you angle the setup rearward you would have a good chance of success. What I mean is tranny forward, engine angles back. It can and will be done, just another huge hill to climb. As far as the spindles etc. you can make adapters I am sure, just be ready for serous fabrication work across the board here, Wish you luck.

[Frank818]

My vw motors held up good, but the trannies sucked.

That is true on some, if not most. The first gen VR6s are one of the toughest, which is the one I run for 20 years. The way I run it, it's proven very reliable, so I want to keep it.
The OEM tranny. Yes it's a weak point, they reach their max output pretty quickly, especially 3rd gear and even worse on the 02A. That's why I went with a rebuilt, strengthen and cryo-treated 6-sp box. I wouldn't go to 450-500whp with that box as it's not designed for that, but I don't want to, the engine runs perfect for quite some time, I know how to take care of it, why add it more power on a 2100lbs car (the 818, not the Corrado).



But the center of gravity of the boxer is the key element here. To get even close the vw drivetrain will have to be tilted a lot to even come close to fitting.

Absolutely, center of gravity will change, there is no way I can keep it.

The fitting will be very tight in terms of height. My mech and I checked long time all the measurements that were provided on this forum, with pictures, and we have a few ideas. Sure these are just measurements and not actual fittings, I am aware of the risk. It ain't that pretty, we will swear a lot too, but we'll see. The good thing for me is if it doesn't work, I put the engine back in the VW and will either use a Subie engine or try one of those 80s air-cooled Porsche 3.2L that my mech loves so much. If I do that, my project will wait longer for completion, but I want to learn all that stuff, building, fitting engines, see what can or cannot be done, etc. So there is no risk for me (just money spent for learning), unlike Speedy who is very handcuffed with the Columbian laws.

Spindles are taken care of as of now (if that does not change later). DriveshaftShop (builds FFR's axles) can custom build any shaft. VW inner to Subie outer is an option, with specified unequal length (that I need to measure once all is in place but the axles). I have other ideas, but this one will work. Yes, more money. What would we expect when trying to fit parts that were not designed for the kit in the first place. :)


As for me, my point is if I can't make it fit properly or without way too much changes, so be it, I'll turn around and move on the Subie or Porsche.

[Frank818]

For example, I don't know a crap of shift linkages. But I know the VW box to reach reverse gear you have to be in neutral, push the lever straight down, then left, then forward into R gear. How is that going to work with the K-Tuned shifter that I was planning to use? May it cannot and I will be stuck using the OEM box, which I don't really like. So yes a lot of questions will come up and lot of answers will have to come up to. A lot of work is the baseline.

[Frank818]

Ok so that's what I meant.
The K-Tuned awesome billet shifter that we see pictures around a couple of build threads is most probably a no-go for me. Mike at K-Tuned confirmed me there is no push-down feature available on their nice shifter.

So the best attraction of my build has gone. lolll Back on using the OEM shifter (of course the FFR so-called Corolla shifter is a no-go as well for the same reason). I will see if I can find a better looking solution.

[Speedy G]

Well if the fit of the VR6 is a no-go, and something like what Metal is saying is necessary to make it fit, I'll buy a subaru donor. I know my time is tight, but down here I can hire mechs for cheaper than up there to help out. We have a track near here and those guys are used to recycling or fabricating anything into a racecar. I could also have it built in the states and then import it, but the issue of timing is still there. The build year of the chasis and the engine have to be the same as the year you're registering it in. So the engine has to be new since they require a dated sales bill with the build year of the engine. However, even with a donor, I'd buy all new suspension parts, harness and standalone.

In any case, I hear you Metal, regarding the strength of VAG trannies, yeah, true, but the stock rods go before the trannies. They' re better then DSM trannies though. The O2J sucked at shifting above 7500RPM even with mods. The O2M is better though, and all can handle 300ft lbs of torque. My ideal setup would be a 3.2 VR6T with a DSG tranny, but there's no standalone controller for the tranny so I'm hoping to find an O2M. What I wanted to do with the 3.2 VR6 is try to make 300ft lbs over a wide range of RPM, say 2000 to 7500. That way traction isn't that much of a problem and the tranny doesn't have to take the grunt of 400ft lbs. If I buy back my 1.8t the innards of the tranny are getting replaced and the plan is to rev it to 8500RPM, but I'd have to granny shift. We'll see what I can find. If I am able to find a WRX with a viable engine for USD10k I'd definitely go that route.

Regarding the shifter, maybe looking at the shifter mechanism can tell you if you really need the stock one. What I mean is that it only has two main wires going to the tranny. One for forward-back motion and the other for left right. There's no push-down wire, so reverse gets limited by the shifting mechanism, not the tranny. If that's true, you CAN use any shifter you want, just be careful of not going into reverse instead of first.

[Mechie3]

I ask because IIRC you have only a year to complete the build

Is that a Colombia thing?

[Frank818]

Is that a Colombia thing?

I think yes, I think Speedy only has 1 year to complete the build. Speedy? Gotta be speedy, right? :)

[Frank818]

SpeedyGsus, lol, you will have traction issues with 300wtq at 2000, with a car that light, I think yes. But you can control with the pedal.

As for the shift linkage, I'd have to ask my mech about how using a non-push-down shifter on a 6-sp tranny could work with the VW reverse gear. I don't picture in my head what you are saying. What you say is that if I move forward as if I were to go in 1st but I stop in the middle of the throw I could make it engage reverse?

[Speedy G]

Yeah, it's a Colombia thing.

Yeah, but 400wtq is just as stupid as an MB AMG on the track. You'll be spinning hard in third. That's why it's better to have a wide power band without hardcore peaks. Like an S2000, high rpm to get hp, but torque is low. It takes more tuning on the wastegate control side, but it's doable. What I'm saying is that a way to get 400whp on this car to the ground is to go higher in RPM and lower on the torque. The O2M synchros should be able to take it.

No, what I'm saying is that the pushdown is just a safety feature of the shifter mechanism. The tranny knows nothing about the push down. I infer this from the fact that there is only 2 cables coming out of the shifter mechanism. One is the left right movement, and the other is the front back movement. What that means is that first is simply between reverse and third if you use a different shifter. Like in the folling pic:

24841

Now that's a shifter I like. You could pull a mechie and bury the mechanism to do something like that.

[Frank818]

What I'm saying is that a way to get 400whp on this car to the ground is to go higher in RPM and lower on the torque.

That is true. Though I am not a fan of revving high the VW engines. I can't talk for the 1.8/2.0T, but the VR usually doesn't like anything over 7000 unless you put some hardcore valve hardware (springs, seals, guides, lightweight valves, etc.), then it can go to 7500, but I have always feared more due to the hydraulic lifters. I don't know on the newer VRs and 4cyls, though. On mine I start cutting around 6300 and up to a hard stop at 6700 or 6800, though it could take up to 7000-7200. Reliability I need. :) But it's so fast I rarely go up to 6000, it feels so fast that I think I am already at redline and I upshift. In fact, I am maybe only at 5000-5500. loll


No, what I'm saying is that the pushdown is just a safety feature of the shifter mechanism. The tranny knows nothing about the push down. I infer this from the fact that there is only 2 cables coming out of the shifter mechanism. One is the left right movement, and the other is the front back movement. What that means is that first is simply between reverse and third if you use a different shifter.

Ha, I get it. There could be a button, lever or pull ring on rod thing that could be used to engage (disengage actually) the safety measure. I'll think about that, but tnx for explaning, that helps. :)

[Frank818]

So I got 3 packages today. I mean yesterday.

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Got some LED BA15S for stuff like flashers. They are for test purposes and if it works well I'll buy more.

Got some anodized blue valve stems to go with my blue body wrap. Will fit on black wheels.

Got a felt-edge squeegee for the wrap.

Got a 2.0L VW T-Body.


Now that last one may be weird, right. This smaller t-body is part of some thinking and analysis I've conducted the past year. It's not related to the 818 build, but the 818 build makes me make the move about it!

The theory is fully airflow related and no one could prove me wrong or right, due to the complexity of airflow in intakes, manifolds, chambers and exhausts.
This is what I think:

The VR6 t-body is very big, the outlet is about 68mm (2.7"), that is huge. It's enough to make probably 1000hp or more. On the stock VR, it's NA so always under vacuum or at atmosphere (0psi as overboost). The t-body doesn't work the same way as under boost. When NA, if it's too small, it will restrict airflow or make it "swirl" differently, which changes the way air and fuel are mixed and blahblah. Not sure but I think when the t-body is bigger it helps a little to let the air in and may help gain just a few higher hps, but I am really unsure about that. Don't ask me why VW put such a big one on the VR, though.

That being said, on a forced induction engine, things don't work the same. The air is pushed through the pipes, which changes altogether the restriction, swirling and mixture efficiency. On my setup, my AWIC core is 2.25" ID. So my intake piping is 2.25". But my t-body outlet is 2.7"! My piping fills only 83% of the valve's volume.
The behavior I have right now is that when the t-body's butterfly flap is open at around 66%, anything over does NOTHING on the engine. At 66% TPS opening I hit the maximum air volume into the engine. Which makes the last 33% completely useless and I lose throttle control cuz of that. My theory is that I think if I can have a matching t-body (or matching piping and AWIC core) I could have a much better control. Of course, butterfly t-bodies are NOT linear for air volume vs TPS opening. But when 33% is lost in space, I think it's not optimal.

The dirty T-body I just got has a 58mm outlet (66-68 inlet, as opposed to maybe 75-80 on my current one), which matches my 2.25" piping by maybe 2mm. I'll try that out while I get the engine out and re-do my intake piping to make it fit the 818's engine bay.

[Speedy G]

Yeah just remember that flowing 500cfm or whatever you're flowing is VERY turbulent flow in 2.25" pipe, and it's fast. I remember someone calculating for what HP it would be supersonic. That means a half open TB will cause a LOT of turbulence after it, which takes up space. Let me know how the experiment goes. If you hear whining noises, there's definitely too much turbulence.

[Speedy G]

Hey Frank, i just found this pdf on the 02M gearbox. It describes in detai the operation of the shifter: http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_205.pdf

[Frank818]

Nice PDF Speedy! So yeah the R is further to the left than 1st. I just need a stopper on any non-push-down shifter that I can unlock manually to make the shifter go to the left. When locked it would stop just before, where 1st is. I'll to my mech on that.

[Frank818]

Well another part came in.

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320mm (I like them small, feeling is better). Normal S/Ws are 350mm.

Cheap (40 bucks shipping included!!!!!) ebay one, but I was impressed by the finish. For the price. It's not all leather like 200+ S/Ws, but it looks nice and it feels really nice in the hands. The back of the S/W where you usually place your hands (at 3h and 9h) is thicker with a hollow section for the fingers, like we see on quality sport S/Ws or race ones (F1, etc.). Feels really nice.

If I don't like the finish once installed and after using it, I can wrap it with suede (won't be easy!!!!) or simply buy a can of suede spray from Alsa Wrap. So I have 2 backup doors I can use if I ever need it. 3rd one: get rid of the S/W and use my current 320mm Momo (on the Corrado) and 4th one, buy another S/W! So plenty of options.

[Frank818]

I signed-up for the Hot List. This is when someone cancels his/her order or post-pones it, a date opens up. I just got an email from FFR, they opened up April 19-23rd 2014!!! I am due in Oct 2014! That is really early!!

Is that a good news? Yes and no. Yes it is cuz I can start earlier and use the warmer summer to work on it and hopefully finish it for Spring 2015. The bad news, I am very afraid the powdercoat and fiberglass panels quality issues won't be solved by then. :( So I don't know if I should or not accept the date... weird dilemma.

[Mechie3]

My powder coat only has issues where body panels rubbed it.

[ehansen007]

24841

Now that's a shifter I like. You could pull a mechie and bury the mechanism to do something like that.


I was just looking at fabbing that gated shifter! So cool and although retro, looks awesome.

[Canadian818]

Your assuming the problem will be fixed by october...FFR has yet to admit there's a problem at all. You should see my front bumper, pics coming soon.

[Xusia]

I signed-up for the Hot List. This is when someone cancels his/her order or post-pones it, a date opens up. I just got an email from FFR, they opened up April 19-23rd 2014!!! I am due in Oct 2014! That is really early!!

Is that a good news? Yes and no. Yes it is cuz I can start earlier and use the warmer summer to work on it and hopefully finish it for Spring 2015. The bad news, I am very afraid the powdercoat and fiberglass panels quality issues won't be solved by then. :( So I don't know if I should or not accept the date... weird dilemma.

Frank, I would not worry about the powder coat unless you want a show quality frame. If you do, then pass on the powder coat and either do it yourself or have it done. If you don't need a show quality frame, issues are minor and easily addressed. I think it's worth the $400 (again, if you don't want a show quality frame).


I was just looking at fabbing that gated shifter! So cool and although retro, looks awesome.

I really, REALLY want a gated shifter too. :D

[Frank818]

Your assuming the problem will be fixed by october...FFR has yet to admit there's a problem at all. You should see my front bumper, pics coming soon.

Exactly, I am assuming cuz I have no information to confirm anything, just crossing fingers.

But you know what, I don't care anymore cuz guess what, I've been moved up to April 26th! :D
To hell the fiberglass issues or PC issues, I'll deal with them this summer if I get some issues. :)

[Frank818]

I was just looking at fabbing that gated shifter! So cool and although retro, looks awesome.

I could do something similar on the K-Tuned shifter. Somehow, I don't know, would have to check, but may look weird as the whole shifter will be installed outside the box.
But guess what? I am taking the K-Tuned shifter anyway, what Speedy said is true and my mech says there will be no issues to fit a stopper somehow and somewhere to prevent reverse from being engaged until I disengage the stopper.

[Frank818]

Ok some updates.

BTW tnx Xusia I'll keep the FFR PC and deal with the results.
I'll do the same about the fiberglass panels, I was expecting to do some work on that anyway, so that'd be just a little more. After all it's just fiberglass.

Second, I'll keep the K-Tuned shifter. And work something out for the reverse gear. Tnx for explaining Speedy! But sorry I won't be able to tell you what to do to fit the OEM shifter.

Third, my delivery date has moved up. I don't know who hoped out of that date, but I took your place. I will drive down to FFR on April 26th 2014! :)

Now I gotta move on quickly on finalizing my things. I still need to find a very low cost Subaru donor. I don't need the engine and tranny, I don't worry about mileage. Now we are in winter there are less for sale.

[Frank818]

Just made another purchase today before the CAD drops too much against the USD (it has quite a lot recently, I lost money by waiting):

http://www.isispower.com/products/multiplexing/3-cell-starter-kit.html
http://www.isispower.com/products.html?ProductID=ISISINNET

2506625067

This will totally replace the wiring harness (for the most of it). No fuse box either.
Couple reasons for that expensive decision: I estimated my time and my mech's time spent on the wiring would be worth the money of this kit and easy installation. I wanted to use something different as the standard wiring harness. The controls will all be through a touch screen on the center console, also no key in the steering column will be used. Since I am mixing a VW engine/Standalone ECU with some Subaru parts and controls, I didn't want to build some hybrid wiring of some sort or have compatibility issues. This kit weighs less than 15 pounds for those concerned. The kit allows custom config of the web interface (tabs, buttons for controls, etc.) as often as I want, for free, so I can change whatever I want to my taste (isn't that the kit car's purpose?) and I can add new functions anytime time and integrate them in the web interface. Yes it controls HVAC as well, roof, windows, doors, seats, radio, anything electric.

Basically the connectivity is a double-plug-and-play: plug the input to mastercell (or powercell, depends what you want) and plug the output (sensor, control, device, etc.) to the same cell as the input. The cells control what the fuse box would do (assuming you plug in the right slots for that, of course). And you can control anything electric with any wifi device using a browser (phone, tablet, maybe the new watches, computer, etc.). It's an internal network, the internet is not used. Yes there is PW encryption to gain access to the controls.

Jay at ISISPower is of very very very good help and super super quick to respond! He knows about FFR and has built a kit for the GTM already.

[Speedy G]

Awesome that you're going with the isisPower stuff. I will be as well. Just curious, did you get the 3 cell starter kit, the programmer, and the inTouch NET? Anything else? Did you get the RF module (not that power door locks are important in an 818)? Btw, it's not that expensive of a solution. Wayne's harness is even more expensive. What I like about the isis thing is the lack of wires everywhere, and the fact that it disconnects the battery if voltage goes too low. Also, I'm thinking of fitting an android tablet as a general controller in front of the shifter, ala tesla.

Also, did you choose your wheels yet? I'll be using my wheels from my old skoda (ASA FR1 wheels). The wheels fit the subie hubs, the only thing is that my wheels have a 45mm offset, but a spacer should be able to fix that. What tires are you thinking of using in the back? What's the biggest thing that'll fit?

[Frank818]

All I needed to get are those 2 parts, the 3-cell kit with rear-engine configuration (you have to choose the option when you order) and the inTOUCH NET for WIFI connectivity. The inCODE Programmer is not required for me as with a laptop and USB connection you can easily upload your web interface configuration.

I did not get the motors and RF stuff, cuz I don't plan on locking the doors (pretty useless on a no-roof-no-window car) or having the doors pop on a push of a button. Now if one day I install windows for rain, will they be solid windows, zip windows, I don't know. I'll see then, but I would prefer to use the Subaru motors and do it from the tablet, I don't need the RF thing. Anyway I could still connect to the car from the outside using my phone and activate the window motor, even it's not the motor from ISIS.

The wheels and tires are coming in Monday or Tuesday, so pictures will follow on that day or the next day. My setup is mentioned on the first page, probably post #20.

[Frank818]

Today I've ordered my Completion Kit. Jeff was very nice to talk to. There is a lead time on that kit, hopefully I'll have it before May or very shortly at the beginning.

Then I called Wayne! Very nice to talk to as well. Ordered my K-Tuned shifter kit along with a blue knob and wide trailing arms. Can't wait to get that shifter and post some pix. :)

So since the shifter does not support blocking the R on the left of 1st gear, I'll build up something with my mech to make it work. That should be much easier to do than more complex things we'll be working on, so why not.

Making as much purchases as possible right now, the $CAD has dropped so much in the past month and will continue for quite a while.

[wleehendrick]

Then I called Wayne! Very nice to talk to as well. Ordered my K-Tuned shifter kit along with a blue knob and wide trailing arms. Can't wait to get that shifter and post some pix. :)

Great! glad to see Wayne sell more of those. It's pricey, but every car guy/gal who sees mine loves it.

[Frank818]

Great! glad to see Wayne sell more of those. It's pricey, but every car guy/gal who sees mine loves it.

The shifter or trailing arms?

[THE ITALIAN]

Frank
I know you have not installed the ISIS, but from looking at your future work ahead, would you say that the original wiring harness is a waste of time or will the clips and such from an original harness (not so much in your case) make the job easier?

[Frank818]

Good question as of now, yes.
I've worked on wiring my stand alone by myself, twice (used 2 systems and migrated from one to another which yielded to hybrid setups cuz I had deleted the OEM stuff the 2nd system required), but a complete wiring I've never done and don't want either lolll. Just the ECU wiring is not that easy the first time if you include the forks to fuse box and hooks you gotta do sometimes. My mech also spends a lot of time when it comes to wiring, hence the calculation we made on that.

I don't think the OEM harness is a waste per se, you really need some wiring to make the car work loll. Seriously, I think it depends who you really are to begin with. Some people really love working on wiring or want to learn about that, then obviously the OEM harness is not a waste. If you can easily understand the wiring diagrams, you have a very good start, I think.

After seeing the ISIS, talking with Jay and looking at its system assignment chart, the ISIS really is simpler and takes less space around.
The problem is I don't know yet its limitations, if any. So it's hard to compare thoroughly.

Personally I wanted to avoid the OEM harnessES, especially that I will be using my VW gauge cluster. Fitting the VW engine, VW tranny, stand alone ECU, VW gauge cluster, Subaru or VW rad fan controls, Subaru HV (no AC) at some point, FFR's headlights (they use Subaru wiring system), etc., the mix of all that could yield to wiring complexity which I wanted to avoid. Having said that, I will end up with some problems somewhere, I am sure about that. :)

[wleehendrick]

The shifter or trailing arms?

The K-tuned shifter... I stuck with the OEM trailing arms.

When a friend saw it, he just said "Damn! That's like a Pagani!"

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25118&d=1389380073

25118

[Frank818]

The K-tuned shifter... I stuck with the OEM trailing arms.

Yeah you bet they love it! Like it's been said, it's a piece of art. And tnx to Speedy to explain better about how the linkage works, I thought I had to dump the idea of using the K-Tuned! That would have killed half of the look I want to give the car. :)

I've always dreamed of having a car with an exposed shift linkage, I think this is THE moment I can get as close as I ever will. :)

It definitely is great. :) And apparently it works awesome too.

[Speedy G]

Dude, that Pagani pic is awesome. Frank, maybe you could use the exposed shifter like on the Pagani and put the gated pattern on top, like on the pic. That way you don't have to jerry rig something to keep you from downshifting to reverse. Also, the 818's center console looks like it's from a 1980's volvo, square as hell, so any eye candy in that area would help.

[Frank818]

Yeah well, I think the Pagani is better than K-Tuned, but hey, it's not as expensive as Pagani!! :)

You know, I could lay out a piece of alu wrapped in faux suede that I have and make a higher armrest, just like on the Pagani. Will take time, but the idea is good and the H pattern shifter would totally kick @ss. Good points, guys! :)

[Frank818]

So i got my panels wrap today. Hard to take a picture of the real color and finish.

25128

[Frank818]

Well I am sick for the past 2 days and working from home, never been that happy to be sick cuz Santa just passed by (late this year) while I was here!

25206252072520825209252102521125212

265/35/18 ET35 5x100 apparently pretty much very close to the max that can fit without modifications. Those Neova R seems stickier than my current Neova non-R. The compound is so sticky using the finger.
You'll notice no front wheels. There is a huge worldwide BO at Rota, they say they will fab some in my size in a month or so. I damn hope cuz I got the rear ones now.

Have you ever seen wheels wrapped that way? This is the minimum possible to prevent damage and reduce weight and cardboard used. Pretty impressed, as was the delivery man, never seen like that before either. I bought from Image In Motion in Vancouver, BC (the other side of the Continent to me, but no x-bording!).



And also some lug nuts but no one cares about that anyway. loll

[wleehendrick]

Well I am sick for the past 2 days and working from home, never been that happy to be sick cuz Santa just passed by (late this year) while I was here!

Nice... I'm sure that makes you feel better!


Have you ever seen wheels wrapped that way?l

Yeah, I ordered a wheel/tire combo from TireRack years ago and they came like that.


And also some lug nuts but no one cares about that anyway. loll

You would care if you don't have any!

[nkw8181]

Those are some nice tires and wheels!!

[Frank818]

Today I received my mirrors.

25299

Yes, these are motorcycle mirrors. I may be stupid, but for 30 bucks, come on. :)
They are legal on a car in Quebec, though, the rule is 64cm/sq and these are well over that, which means the rule is not restrictive at all. For once!
The adjustments aren't very good though, there are minimal adjustment back and forth. Height has a lot, but back and forth no, so the angle left-right can be just a bit adjusted. I really need to fix them very good on the body to start with. Like I said, hey it's just 30 bucks and I got LED blinkers, so. :)

[Frank818]

Since I won't have a lot of opportunities to weigh my wheels, I decided to compare the OEM wheels with my rear Rota.

The OEM has Bridgestone Potenza S-04 unused. Rim is what? 16x6.5?
The 818 rear has Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 R unused. Rim is 18x9.5.

The result: exactly 10lbs apart in favor of the OEM. Which isn't that much considering how bigger the 818 rear wheels are.


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[Frank818]

Received my Teckwrap 4D Carbon Fiber wrap this week.

25627

[Frank818]

There's one thing the 818 will never win: the fastest building kit car.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/meet-the-car-you-can-build-in-an-hour-2013-02-04

But even if it'd take me 750 times more time to build my 818 than this above vehicle, I'd still choose the 818. :D

[Mechie3]

So what's the crash rating on something like that? lol

[Frank818]

I am not the one who'll test it, but the risk of crash of this one is quite high!

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/this-is-a-195mph-978bhp-mitsubishi-colt-2014-02-04

I'll try to beat that with my 818. loll Only thing is he's got, uhm, 49psi of boost... and one of the worst looking car ever. :)

[metalmaker12]

Nice mirrors, so I am guessing you have a plasma cutter, cutoff wheels, a welder and plenty of weld gas? You could just use a horizontally opposed vw setup? I am just trying to get your blood pressure up, lol I can't wait to see it all come together

[Frank818]

Nice mirrors, so I am guessing you have a plasma cutter, cutoff wheels, a welder and plenty of weld gas? You could just use a horizontally opposed vw setup?

Uh, how on earth did you know that? loll

Tnx Bruins, yeah for 30 bucks shipped I was surprised about the quality of the mirrors. Don't get me wrong, they aren't the best quality, but if they end up not being too small, I think they will serve its purpose.

I realized I was using this build to have fun experimenting many little things. If something doesn't mix up well, worst case I back off and install something more "in the box". Money, time, yeah, so what, that's the price to experiment, I've being doing it for 20 years, why stop now. loll I'm gonna make errors in this build, hell yeah. And am gonna fix them. :)

[Frank818]

Well I'll be damned somehow, out of the 6 2002-2003 donors I have seen so far, 5 have rear drums!

Now that is a USD$480 expense (without shipping) to get the 22 parts required in order to use my rear discs/calipers. That causes me issues to find a suitable donor, unless I pay the price for that conversion. :(

For some reasons looks like many of these years subarus don't have rear discs around here.

Oh well, I'll continue searching.

[RM1SepEx]

find a smashed/rolled wrx and be done with it! :cool: sell off parts that you don't need, that's the best way to get a low cost donor, by subtraction vs addition

[metalmaker12]

Just get a set of rear spindles with disc

[Frank818]

Yes and less expensive are the 22 parts for $480 (everything but spindles/discs/calipers). Or if I can find salvaged spindles with discs. ebay tells me it's about 150-200 per spindle, but doesn't come with the handbrake parts.

But what I meant is that it seems I have to live with the fact most of them have drums and that I'll have to pay for parts I thought I could use if they were usable, and spend more time to find a donor cuz many aren't full donors. Some don't even have the cruise control, but that I could live without.

As for crashed ones, probably less expensive, but I may still need to buy some parts if they are in bad condition. So all that tells me there are tradeoffs whichever way I go. I thought it would have been easier to find a donor, but I admit I was really out on that one. :)

[STiPWRD]

Are you planning on upgrading your brakes later on or keeping them stock? After some searching, I was able to find a shop in Toronto that sold me a full V7 Sti Brembo conversion with front and rear spindles (5x100), calipers, and rotors for $1k. It's certainly more expensive but goes a long way towards achieving the look/feel of a super car. Just a thought.

[Frank818]

I bought 4 Wilwoods back on November, which narrows down my options. Then I realized the Wilwoods I bought were good for up to 2004. Which narrowed down even more my donor. And then cuz the WRX are more expensive and I don't need the engine, I decided it was a waste to chase a WRX, so in January I committed on my completion kit saying I need the NA model parts.

End result with all this, my only possible donor must be a manual 2002-2004 NA. loll

[STiPWRD]

Good luck with the search man

[metalmaker12]

Yes and less expensive are the 22 parts for $480 (everything but spindles/discs/calipers). Or if I can find salvaged spindles with discs. ebay tells me it's about 150-200 per spindle, but doesn't come with the handbrake parts.

But what I meant is that it seems I have to live with the fact most of them have drums and that I'll have to pay for parts I thought I could use if they were usable, and spend more time to find a donor cuz many aren't full donors. Some don't even have the cruise control, but that I could live without.

As for crashed ones, probably less expensive, but I may still need to buy some parts if they are in bad condition. So all that tells me there are tradeoffs whichever way I go. I thought it would have been easier to find a donor, but I admit I was really out on that one. :)

Good luck, you will find what you need, keep looking for parts on ebay etc

[Frank818]

Tnx guys.

Ebay is my friend, yes.

I stopped searching for a donor and dumped money on one I've seen this week. So I will convert rear drums to discs (Adam @ Somerset will get rich). My maths showed me that my time running around like a cockroach is worth more than 480 bucks. I need my brain to build the car, not to take guesses at which donor will be best.
The car is a 2003 manual NA with rear spoiler. All OEM, all parts are working and none I could see need to be changed. Not too happy on the price but I got the guy lower it a lot.

If everything goes well, I should have it in the middle of the week.

Funny part is I realized something: most people try to get the most recent donor with less mileage and the most power, which usually leads for the highest price.
In my case I was looking at the exact opposite. The most crappy one I could find at the lowest price with the least parts to be replaced. loll And guess what, it is as difficult as you guys looking for the other end. lolll

Anyway now that page is flipped (unofficially, until I get my hands on it). Time to think and organize the dismantling and cleaning.

[Frank818]

This week I got this:

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The oil filter is actually a special oil filter housing for the VW VR6, designed by the famous Bill Schimmel of SP Turbo in Warminster, PA.

1.75lb billet 6061 T6 alloy.
The anti-drainback valve prevents oil from draining out of the filter. This valve is actually a rubber flap that covers the inside of the inlet holes of the filter. When the oil pump starts pumping oil, the pressure will unseat the flap. The purpose of this valve is to keep the oil filter filled at all times, so when the engine is started there will be an almost instantaneous supply of oil to the engine.

Has a clean oil port (1/8”ntp). To either feed the turbo with fresh oil or get proper oil pressure sample after the oil filter, I will use to feed the turbo. The OEM oil filter housing has three ports for sensors on top. All of these ports are unfiltered oil from pan and are before the filter. If using any of the ports for turbo oil feed you are sending dirty oil to your turbo bearings which will drastically reduce its life and performance.

It also makes changing your oil a much simpler task. No longer I have to handle changing out the cartridge, worry about contamination of the oil filter housing, depositing lint or transfer from whatever rag or paper is used to wipe out the housing, or thinking I have cross threaded the cheap plastic filter housing since they don't fit all that well. :)

[Frank818]

And I just learned that Jason Lavigne is no longer with FFR. Joe Scott took over.

[Frank818]

Video and pix of my donor #1.


http://youtu.be/JKGyEMJ-DOY


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[Frank818]

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[Frank818]

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[Frank818]

Shoot. :( Just saw FFR's tweet regarding the Huntington Beach (CA) show on April 26th. That's the day I will pick-up my kit. This means if David Smith goes there to attend, like at least he did last year, I will not shake his hand (unless he's got a clone). :( But I won't change my delivery date, I want my kit so bad. :)

[Frank818]

So, I was trying out something big for my rear wheels. 265-35-18 on 18x9.5 ET35.

I thought I'd get 17x7.5 ET48 for fronts on 215-40-17. Since Rota was out of stock on these for a long time, I just called Image In Motion in Western Canada and they were able to find the last 2 front rims available in Flat Black. But instead of what I thought, they found 17x8.0 ET35. On 5x100. I have not seen these specs anywhere yet. In 5x114.3 yes, but not 5x100. That's what I got on the invoice and he confirmed 5x100.

That will put the wheels further outside, probably not outside the fender, but I can't recall if anyone fitted less than 40mm offset in the front. Since I will use 215/40/17, they are 23.7" high, I guess fitting them 10-13mm outwards shouldn't be a problem.

If not, I'll find a way to make them fit. :)

[metalmaker12]

My front rims are 5x100 17x8 35 offset (bremmer kraft br10) so you just got 1 upped playa, also I am using a 215/40 17. There slightly in on the fender, I would say a 5mm-7mm max up front to bring it out more if desired, but for now I am staying without spacers. My rears are 18x9 42 offset with 3mm spacer to get to 39 offset. I could go to like 30 or maybe 28 if desired. I would say 30 offset front and rear would work with my rim widths.

[Frank818]

Tnx metal, I'll check pix on your build, you got some close ups of those I guess?

I have 5mm spacers free in my garage right now, maybe I will use those. What the relief is here is that it fits! So one less headache to go through, right? :)

It's interesting you say with 35 you would use 5 even 7mm spacers. How "in" the fenders would 215/40/17 look on 48 offset, then...

[metalmaker12]

Pm your email and i will send what I have. 48 would be way in and have an oldschool Porsche look. And I will do what I can to help out. Btw your garage looks sick

[Pearldrummer7]

Your garage is so badass! Cool build idea. Definitely show the folks at FFR the finished product.

[Frank818]

Tnx guys, appreciated. :)

[Frank818]

One more came in today, 270mm rear view wide view convex mirror.

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[Frank818]

By less than a mph!!

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/hennessey-venom-gt-new-speed-record-video-2014-2-24

Too bad my 818's 6th gear will probably not be tall enough to exceed... 155-170mph @7krpm. :)

[Frank818]

Got my '92-'01 WRX dual-core 2-row race rad today. Don't know what's "race" about it but it looks pretty nice! And less than $USD175 shipped to freezing Canada. Now I just need Mike Everson's coolant tubes. :)

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[metalmaker12]

You have a lot of views on your thread without a car, when's your date again

[Frank818]

You have a lot of views on your thread without a car, when's your date again

99% of the views are generated by me, as what I think longisland and a few others would tell you. loll

April 26th.
There is no car yet shown (like at least one other here with many views), it's in pieces, all the ones I pictured. Only missing the frame and other few FFR parts which I'll get on April 26th.

[nkw8181]

That is my build date as well ��

[Frank818]

Just posted on your thread, Nolan.

[Speedy G]

Frank I bet all those views are waiting for you to fit the VR6 in the frame. Btw I dropped the VR6 and am now going electric, 400hp electric. More info soon.

[Frank818]

Seriously? Interesting! Good choice too. An electric kit from this forum or something else? Where's your build thread? :)

[Speedy G]

No build thread yet, I'll start it once I get the motors. I'm doing something completely different, although some of the kits here look pretty good.

[Frank818]

Got my ISIS 3-cell kit + inTOUCH NET for wi-fi control of everything. This replaces any possible harness and fusebox. If you want one, it's going to take about 2 months before you get it after your order is placed. At the moment that's the lead time.

It weighs 13 pounds. How much weighs a fusebox + stripped subaru harness?

26722

[Xusia]

ISIS is cool stuff, just spendy.

[Frank818]

Receiving Mike Everson's (Replica Parts) coolant tube this week. Very light, awesome finish, the couplers aren't silicone but I don't need silicone. Anywhere on my body. 818 body, that is. Well my personal one as well, but... Hey!! You understand what I mean. loll

I will paint them blue. Will give a try today.

Along with the tubes I got Mike's reservoir kit to prevent cutting.

I bought these tubes cuz I really don't like corrugated tubes. There are other solutions out there, yes, but I was very comfortable with Mike's and since I wanted to paint I preferred hard lines for that too. Besides, they are perfectly cut for my rad, which is the same rad as Mike.

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[Xusia]

Hey Frank, where did you get that radiator? I didn't notice before but my stock one has broken mounting tabs, so I'm finding my self in need of a new radiator!

[Frank818]

Mike Everson's finding through our best friend called ebay. :)

http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=impreza+2-row+radiator&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Ximpreza+9 2-01+2-row+radiator&_nkw=impreza+92-01+2-row+radiator&_sacat=0

[Frank818]

Big day for me today. Nope, not the pick-up date yet.

As a Canadian I need to fill up a bunch of forms to be allowed to import a "starter kit" with some deleted parts from the US kit. I just signed the form and emailed all the documents to Transport Canada. They will review and send me my Approval Letter within apparently 2 weeks.

Next big day is when I get that approval letter so I can say hi to the custom guys without my legs shaking when I'll cross the border with the kit.
Then the other big day will finally be the pick-up date on April 26th! Still a long way to go, but time flies by fast.

[Frank818]

Got my VCP trailing arms today.

Default color is BLACK.

26917

Not sure yet if I will paint them blue or not.


Wayne tried to import a lady bug specie into Canada, maybe thinking it would jeopardize the entire ecosystem, but he failed, cuz the bug died during transit. Probably due to the very rare low temps we still have at this time of year... That Alabama bug didn't survive, it should have stayed at sweet home Alabama. :)

26916

[Frank818]

Impossible...

While my mech was removing the engine and tranny today, he couldn't separate the tranny from the engine. I asked him if he was getting old or what and he said very funny, it's cuz the tranny is fused to the block. Say that again?

The dull pins have expanded due to severe rust and have completely seized the tranny to the block. He's gonna try a few tricks tomorrow. Worst case he'll saw between the tranny and block. He's never seen that in 30-40 years of career.

At least I know for sure the clutch has never been changed. lolll

[Scargo]

OK, I won't ask the obvious, dumb question. :o
I will go get my kit a few days later.
That ladybug looks HUGE!

[Frank818]

Don't worry Scargo, the bug looks huge cuz it was taken in close-up zoomed in settings. :) It's of very normal size.

[metalmaker12]

Impossible...

While my mech was removing the engine and tranny today, he couldn't separate the tranny from the engine. I asked him if he was getting old or what and he said very funny, it's cuz the tranny is fused to the block. Say that again?

The dull pins have expanded due to severe rust and have completely seized the tranny to the block. He's gonna try a few tricks tomorrow. Worst case he'll saw between the tranny and block. He's never seen that in 30-40 years of career.

At least I know for sure the clutch has never been changed. lolll

Pb blast on line up pins, a small amount of heat on case around pins and flat 1/8 chisel all around the separation line and it will come. I have never seen just fall in two, they all get stuck pretty good. Some are a snap and others not do much.

[RM1SepEx]

Hey Frank, where did you get that radiator? I didn't notice before but my stock one has broken mounting tabs, so I'm finding my self in need of a new radiator!

that stupid peg mounting system is a drag, I had 3 broken pegs and sourced my dual row aluminum one from EBay too...

[Scargo]

that stupid peg mounting system is a drag, I had 3 broken pegs and sourced my dual row aluminum one from EBay too...
Huh? Could you decipher that? Also, I'm not understanding the broken pegs. I think you are referring to steel alignment pins? They break?

[Frank818]

Pb blast on line up pins, a small amount of heat on case around pins and flat 1/8 chisel all around the separation line and it will come. I have never seen just fall in two, they all get stuck pretty good. Some are a snap and others not do much.

Tnx met (short for metalmaker, not for crystal meth! loll), will call my mech tom.

[Xusia]

Huh? Could you decipher that? Also, I'm not understanding the broken pegs. I think you are referring to steel alignment pins? They break?

If you look at the quote RM1SepEx used, it was me asking Frank where he got his radiator. RM1SepEx's statement was in regards to the radiator mounting system, which uses plastic "pegs" that are easily broken. It was not about the transmission. :)

[Frank818]

Got my rear adjustable lateral links today.

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[Frank818]

Now that's what I call a show stopper. I will never go to F1 GP anymore, if it stays that way.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/formula-one-noise-2014-2013-australia-gp-2014-03-19

[Canadian818]

I haven't missed watching a F1 race in 4 years, and have yet to get to one. It sucks that I'll never hear 18,000rpm from anything but a sport bike. And now the FIA have taken away red bulls P2 finish because of the FIA's faulty flow meter! New day indeed

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Now that's what I call a show stopper. I will never go to F1 GP anymore, if it stays that way.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/formula-one-noise-2014-2013-australia-gp-2014-03-19

Here is our qualifying run at Le Mans in 2012 on our electric motorcycle.
Near the end you can hear what it sound like going by the pits at 150+ MPH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBKcX7MFghM

Had to throw in a picture of the team after taking 1st place at the European championship race. That's me on the right.

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Our rider Miguel Duhamel is from Canada. I don't know if your a motorcycle fan.
Bob

[Canadian818]

You ever consider bring it to the Isle of Man TT? There's a sweet video called "charge" on netflix about it.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

You ever consider bring it to the Isle of Man TT? There's a sweet video called "charge" on netflix about it.

We are the yellow bike at the 44 second mark.
I personally didn't make the trip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNxuquRCI74

[Xusia]

Love Miguel! I saw him on a 916 in the mid-90s. It was a sight!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Love Miguel! I saw him on a 916 in the mid-90s. It was a sight!
He lives in Las Vegas, One night after SEMA 2012 we went out on the town, had a blast.
He is the best Karaoke singer I know. To much fun for one person.
Sorry for hijacking your thread frank.
I promise him I would let him drive my 818 at a track. Maybe I can get Rasmus to take him out in his.
Bob

[Frank818]

There's no hijacking on my thread, everything's good to talk about. :)

We sure would want to see pix and videos of that!
Let's remember that to-do.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

There's no hijacking on my thread, everything's good to talk about. :)

We sure would want to see pix and videos of that!
Let's remember that to-do.

There is an overriding RULE about Vegas:
"what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
2711327114
Start of the 24 hour endurance Le Mans motorcycle race.
Can you name the person with me in the FFR booth?
Bob

[jayguy]

Danny "The Count"

I didn't know Miguel lived here. Guess I should hang out with motorcyclists more.

That should start soon enough once I get my Ducati back on the road.

[Frank818]

Ok I found why my electrolyte process wasn't very efficient. The anode I was using turned out to be crap. You have to use real metal, nothing painted, no stainless steel and no alu. And if you can, use something that does a 360 around your part. Or one anode on each side.

Baking soda instead of Washing soda will work, but will just take more time, much more in some cases.

I don't think I have found the ideal setup yet, but it's much better, my current is now 2 to 4 times more than it was with my older anode.
I still use 10amps at the moment, it works great so I want to keep it as is for the time being.

Here's my setup:

27199

You can see the shape of the spindle, that's where the bubbles and dirt come up to the surface.

And here's the rear spindle (Forester 2000, that is) after a few hours in the bucket:

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This is how the spindles, taken from a Forester 2000, looked before:

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Believe it or not, they are in much better condition than the ones on my 2003 donor. Maybe after I clean my spare ones (donor) they will look better, but it will take me much more time. No pic of them yet.

[Rasmus]

Oh man. That seventh picture has got the CRUSTY.

[Frank818]

Rasmus, 2 pix just for you:

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Came out of my 2003 110k miles donor. Careful not to get too Krusty.

And a free pic I took at the same time, it just doesn't match the spindles! lolll

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[Frank818]

Got my pedal covers which I bought for... 4 bucks.

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[Rasmus]

No need to get out the ruler. Your rusty is thicker than my rusty.

[Frank818]

Which I think is awesome, cuz it puts the electrolysis process down to hard work.

Check out the hubs after only 3h electrified at 10amps.

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90% of the rust is removed and I did not rotate at all the hub during the process. I do have 2 anodes now, but still, it's quite efficient.

Like I said, the quality of the anode(s) makes a huge difference. Than having as many anodes as possible to ideally make a 360-deg circle around the rusty part is best in my opinion.

I can't wait to try out one of those ugly yellow spindle. lolll

On a side note, I am not sure I do see a difference between 2amps, 10amps and 50amps. Doesn't seem to boil more. Not sure it's quicker. I'll try another hub tomorrow at 2amps and see if after 3h I get about the same result.

[Rasmus]

Knowing how much rust came off your knuckles, once you clean them up you'll be able to call them "lightweight racing knuckles". :D

[Frank818]

And here is my other hub, done on a 2amps this time, for 3h, same time.
Meh, I don't seem to see any tangible difference between 2 and 10amps.

This hub is the rear one (or front, I mix them) and other one in previous post was front (or rear, I just said I mix them loll).

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[wleehendrick]

Meh, I don't seem to see any tangible difference between 2 and 10amps.

Your electric bill will!

[Rasmus]

I've noticed the same: anti-rust bucket 12v@2 amps for about 3 hours. If it needs more: wire brush for a minute, set it back in the bucket at a different angle, then another 3 hours.

[Frank818]

So looks like electricity in Vegas is the same as in Canada. :)

What type of wire brush do you use?
I use some Scotch-Brite scouring pads with cleaning stuff/soap embedded, not the rectangular pad version but the more "wire-like" version which is in elliptical form. Oddly I can't find a picture on the web.

[Rasmus]

http://www.armyproperty.com/images/Brush-13.jpg
I use an old welding brush I no longer use for welding. Wood handle, stainless steel wires, cleans up easy, doesn't rust.

[Frank818]

Ha I see. That's more, uhm, solid than my scotch-brite. lolll I'm surprised it doesn't scratch the parts, but I'll find something similar and see if it helps.


In the meantime, it costs me $560 to get my deleted parts shipped to me. Half of it from FFR to the intermediary place and the other half from there to me. Regulation differences between the 2 countries sometimes cost a lot of money for absolutely no reason. Oh well, I'll forget all that once my car will be running. :) So I'll have bad dreams for the next year. lolll

[Scargo]

...it costs me $560 to get my deleted parts shipped to me. Half of it from FFR to the intermediary place and the other half from there to me. ...
Can I get some clarification? By "deleted parts", do you mean this is stuff that was back-ordered because that they did not have it ready to be shipped with the original order? They charged you for shipping?

[Frank818]

The Canadian deleted parts, those that Transport Canada do not want us to import cuz they would consider our kit to be "complete" cars and they don't allow that, so we have to buy the parts from other place, which I don't understand cuz if we don't buy from FFR we will from another place, so the result is the same (for more money out of our pockets which means more money out of Canada, so again I don't understand). What I am saying is our kit is sold for less money by FFR, true, with less parts (minus the so called deleted parts), but then you have to buy them from somewhere else, which charges you $200 more than the deleted amount from the kit at FFR (let's say $1800 has been removed at FFR, you pay $2000 to get the deleted parts elsewhere) and they charge for the shipping to them and then for the shipping from them to us in Canada. That's life, knowing all that, I would have gone to USA and get them myself on a 2nd trip to USA, one trip for the kit and one other for the deleted parts from that other place. They did have a very great client service and follow-up on the stuff, it's just Transport Canada's rules I have to follow.

[Frank818]

Rasmus, after another test tonight, my conclusion is that I don't see any benefits for more than 3h at 2amps without rotating the part.
More than 2amps don't seem to help and more than 3h standing still either.
Obviously if your anode(s) don't "see" all of the part, then you need to rotate it, which means about another 3h or so, less seems to work cuz most of the effect has taken place already.

The key to this seems to be the quality of your anode(s) and the coverage around the part. Even you have the best anode in the world but it's so thin it covers only 1-deg around your part, it won't be that efficient. But with multiple anodes or a full 360-deg around the part, it's just awesome. As long as the quality of the anode(s) is awesome too. :)

[narkosys]

Frank sometimes the deleted parts can be a blessing. I am looking at building a coupe and I was going to upgrade all those deleted parts anyway. The money saved can go to those parts and less boxes cluttering the shop. :D

P

[Frank818]

You are right, sometimes. :) I mean, not that you are right sometimes, but that you are right about the "sometimes it's a blessing". loll It depends what the builder wants to do.

[Frank818]

Pretty much everything from the fuel tank is BOed on my order:

33058 Fuel tank
80277 Fuel level sender
8-278 Fuel pump connector
15205 Vent bushing
80519 Fuel filler neck
13978 Ground strap

[Pearldrummer7]

Wow! I was on the fence about cleaning up my hubs or just getting new ones. Frank, your hubs came out great! "Lightweight" indeed now, Rasmus! I'm going to copy your set up for my rusty car.

Nice progress!
Frank

[Rasmus]

"Lightweight" indeed now, Rasmus! I'm going to copy your set up for my rusty car.
When I first read about this de-rusting process, I thought it couldn't possibly work. And if it did, it wouldn't work well enough to be worth the hassle. But was I wrong. It's so easy. No harsh chemicals. You're not wire wheeling/brushing for hours. You just put it in the bucket and go do something else. Washing soda's cheap. Water's cheap. My anodes are 2 foot long, 1/2" rebar, from the big box home improvement store costing pennies. The most expensive item in this whole process is the battery charger.

I should probably start a post in the General Section so future forum members don't have to sift though our build threads trying to find this.

[Pearldrummer7]

When I first read about this de-rusting process, I thought it couldn't possibly work. And if it did, it wouldn't work well enough to be worth the hassle. But was I wrong. It's so easy. No harsh chemicals. You're not wire wheeling/brushing for hours. You just put it in the bucket and go do something else. Washing soda's cheap. Water's cheap. My anodes are 2 foot long, 1/2" rebar, from the big box home improvement store costing pennies. The most expensive item in this whole process is the battery charger.

I should probably start a post in the General Section so future forum members don't have to sift though our build threads trying to find this.

I was just going to suggest that you or Frank do just that. Get a material list and a few pictures of set ups in there. I was in disbelief until I saw your pictures. The results are shocking (I'm sorry)


Are there any limits to what you can and cannot de-rust? Since it physically changes volume of the piece, how well does this work with bolts?

[Triathletedave]

Maybe you should develop it as a 'miracle rust removing kit', and start selling them for $499 each. Might finance your entire project!

:-o))

[Frank818]

Are there any limits to what you can and cannot de-rust? Since it physically changes volume of the piece, how well does this work with bolts?

I don't think there is a limit per se, it's rust. If it's rusted, it will de-rust, given the basic assumptions which are metal, water, electricity, conductor (washing soda or other), etc. It works on everything so far. Sometimes it's harder cuz of the way the part is physically made, just rotate it and it will work.

For bolts I suggest zinc plating (that's what I'll do) or anti-rust paint, both after de-rusting obviously.

After de-rusting, the key is to prevent rust from attaching again to the part. There are various ways.

[Frank818]

Upgraded my bucket-o'-doom to Version 2.0!

27479

Now my steering rack. This one won't go in the BOD so that water doesn't go inside the rack. Sooo... anybody has an idea of how I can make this rack look like new? The best anti-rust product I have is CLR (http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm), so I have to use a cloth with CLR on it and work on the rack for hours scrapping it.

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[Pearldrummer7]

Upgraded my bucket-o'-doom to Version 2.0!

27479

Now my steering rack. This one won't go in the BOD so that water doesn't go inside the rack. Sooo... anybody has an idea of how I can make this rack look like new? The best anti-rust product I have is CLR (http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbasic.htm), so I have to use a cloth with CLR on it and work on the rack for hours scrapping it.

2748027481

WOW! That is a rusty rack! You've got me beat, and I'm not upset about it.


Do you have access to a large blast cabinet?

[Frank818]

I was proud of my rusty spindles cuz they are "cleanable" without too much hassle, but I ain't proud of that freaking rat! I mean rack.

My mech has access to a sand blasting machine, maybe that's the most cost effective choice.
I don't know if I can leave the grease inside though. I have to remove the rubbers but beyond that I don't know.

BTW if you haven't noticed, there is a hole at the top of the left bushing. :)

[Xusia]

Frank, if the power fluid can't get out, then the water from the BoD can't get in (obviously, as long as you reassemble the fittings).

Another option would be sand blasting, which is what I did. But GEEZ-US, that has enough rust it might take an entire day to sand blast it off!! Is it functional?!?

[Scargo]

I want a rusty little Subie princess,
with a rack that is rusted
and looks like it's busted.
I'll sandblast all night
and make mountains of bits of rusty ol zits.
I just need a part I can mount...

[Frank818]

Yeah it is perfectly functional! Was when I've test driven it. This stupid rusty donor of mine is currently costing me almost 1200-1500 in new parts. But I will have new parts, let's face it that way. loll

Xusia what I meant by water going in is that I have removed the tie rods so I can see the grease inside the gears and that big metal shaft with dents sliding left-right inside the rack. That's where I don't want water to go.

Now I can compare my donor as being one of those rusty cars in the movies Cars and Cars 2. lolll

I'm sure no one would want to mount a rusty rack like this one on his 818...

Time to buy another rack. Are all non-STI 2002-2007 racks the same? I just don't want to end up with a different number of splines as I still can use my knuckle U joint and steering column.

[Frank818]

There is an ok one on ebay for $60 ($116 for me with shipping and charges) that comes from an 06 Impreza Outback. It doesn't list as being compatible with 03 Wagon TS, but maybe it is?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/04-07-Subaru-Impreza-Outback-WAGON-Power-Steering-Gear-Rack-Pinion-OEM-/171266446452?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27e0469474&vxp=mtr

[Pearldrummer7]

Yeah it is perfectly functional! Was when I've test driven it. This stupid rusty donor of mine is currently costing me almost 1200-1500 in new parts. But I will have new parts, let's face it that way. loll

Xusia what I meant by water going in is that I have removed the tie rods so I can see the grease inside the gears and that big metal shaft with dents sliding left-right inside the rack. That's where I don't want water to go.

Now I can compare my donor as being one of those rusty cars in the movies Cars and Cars 2. lolll

I'm sure no one would want to mount a rusty rack like this one on his 818...

Time to buy another rack. Are all non-STI 2002-2007 racks the same? I just don't want to end up with a different number of splines as I still can use my knuckle U joint and steering column.

I think you're right saying you can't BOD the rack, unfortunately. Try blasting it, and if it doesn't come out nice, buy a "new" used rack? I see not-so-rusty ones in part outs being sold for sub $50 all the time. I'm sure there are plenty on NABISCO.

I looked a little; couldn't find anything on spline count. I did see a post quite a while ago (NASIOC) where someone used an RS column and it didn't fit with the WRX rack (2004 IIRC).

[Rasmus]

Are you going to de-power the rack or are you running power steering?

Looking at that rack, disassemble the whole thing and media blast the case. When you media blast, the media will get into everything. It'll get past the bellows; it'll get in the threads, it'll get in the rack and grease.

[Frank818]

Manual steering. With the trick to remove the steering play.

I'll check for a complete disassemble as an option. I just wonder if the time to work on it is worth one I would find on ebay. The bellows are removed already, no tie rods either, I can see inside the housing from each side. Sort of, full of grease.

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.

[Xusia]

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.

That is the route I went. It really was fairly easy, and not very time consuming. Although the rust on yours will definitely add to the time.

And the award for "Donor with the most rust" goes to... FRANK!! LOL

[Frank818]

That is the route I went. It really was fairly easy, and not very time consuming. Although the rust on yours will definitely add to the time.

If it's easy, then I'll try that first. You did that by hand or you used a gun and more heavy duty tools?


And the award for "Donor with the most rust" goes to... FRANK!! LOL

Yeah tnx Xusia, I have a big smile with my trophy and a list of people I want to thank for the superb performance, cuz after all, it wouldn't be possible without the seller of that donor! lolll

[Xusia]

Disassembly required no more than hand tools. I used a grinder to cut the seal off the rack shaft, and a welder to weld the pinion quill.

[Rasmus]

So you think to disassemble all the parts and then clean them up, remove grease, blast, put grease and re-assemble.
I do. Reassembling our drum brakes/parking brake is harder to do than the the steering rack. If you can do a drum brake you can do the rack.

[Frank818]

I thought so... I was ready for that. Just got my front rims today. I took a lot of risks last November when I ordered 2 rear wheels without knowing if and when Rota would make the front wheels again. And to top it of, on that Flat Black color. Well it turned out I got lucky in Feb and they found 2 in 17x8. Then delays in shipping... the guy told me and printed the invoice with Offset 35. I've never heard of 17x7.5 or 17x8 with offset 35, it's always been 48 on these rims. 35 should fit much better. I was freakin thrilled.

I opened to the boxes, checked the markings on the inside of the rims and e48, as I was expecting but didn't want. I was very depressed. I am happy I have 4 wheels the same, but not happy I have to deal with 48s. Now if I want to buy longer studs and use 10mm spacers, now is the time. I already painted my hubs, but not re-assembled on the spindles yet.

The thing is, with 215/40/17 up front, I don't know if I should buy longer studs. I have open lug nuts, so even if the studs are too long, it's not a problem. Maybe I should, cuz if I don't, then it's a pain if I realize I do need 10mm spacers and still have the OEM studs!

What do you think?

[Mechie3]

I went longer studs since its much easier now than later to do studs.

[metalmaker12]

With 48 0ffset you will need 8-10mm spacers so you need studs. This is if you want the wheels to be flush, IMO is the only way to rock this car.

[Pearldrummer7]

How long of a stud did you guys get?

sorry to hijack, Frank

[Frank818]

Tnx guys. That's what I thought.
I am looking into this one http://www.ebay.ca/itm/OEM-HUB-CENTRIC-10MM-WHEEL-ADAPTERS-5X100-CB-56-1MM-12X1-25-EXTEND-STUDS-/130841029688?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e76bbac38&vxp=mtr

Image In Motion who sent me the wheels is looking with Rota, so until I know for sure what they can do, I'll wait.

ARP studs have a standard length I think, I mean it's part number 100-7716.

[DodgyTim]

I measured the engagement of the wheel nuts with my donor wheels, and had ten turns on the nut fom start to tight
With the standard thread pitch of 1.25 mm that means 12mm or so thread into the nut
Normal engineering rule of thumb is one bolt diameter as a minimum, the studs are M12, so about right.
I wanted to run a 5 mm spacer, so not enough thread into the nut with standard studs, so ended up putting in the Mitsubishi arp's and new open ended Muteki? Nuts

[Frank818]

Ok I have to tell about a company. Image In Motion, located in BC, Canada.

www.imageinmotion.com

I admit if you are in USA you may get cheaper on your side of the border.

But if you are Canadian, and no matter for which hockey team you're a fan of, IIM has great prices, taken into account the US rate + higher shipping when you order from USA.

But the best thing of that place is they have an awesome customer service. In almost 20 years of buying from Internet I have very very rarely seen such a customer service. They do everything to make sure you get what you want.

My front rims, which arrived as offset 48 (by far the most common spec on 17x7.5 and 17x8 5x100 Rota Torque rims), were ordered and paid as offset 35. I thought these didn't exist, at first, but after some search I found out they do exist, but are rare. These guys knew they did exist. But they arrived as e48. Contacted IIM and they offered me 2 choices, have Rota send the right rims and me sending back the e48s or a credit of $50 to buy some spacers from anywhere I want. I asked for the first choice. On the next day, today, Rota has sent the rims! IIM should get them late next week or the week after. So far no charge, even though I have not sent back the e48 rims yet.

Looks like they do have 17x8 5x100 e35 in Flat Black. I will be so happy if I can get them.

All in all, IIM is a great place to get a lot of stuff, not just rims and tires. They have more products than what you find on their website, so don't mind asking!

Canadian818, if you are reading this, you should have bought all your stuff from there, probably 2-3 cities away from you. lolll

[Frank818]

Well I think the BOD worked out!

Here's some parts after 3 coats of anti-rust paint, flat black to match my flat black wheels and matte blue body.

27631

[Xusia]

VERY sharp, Frank!

[Canadian818]

Canadian818, if you are reading this, you should have bought all your stuff from there, probably 2-3 cities away from you. lolll

Thanks Frank, I still have much more to buy. I had planned to buy my wheels from there, I'll have to get their pricing on pads and rotors as well. They're a big NRG dealer, but I got much better deals south of the border, including free shipping on my hub/tilt/wheel combo.

[Frank818]

Everyone probably remembers Krusty the steering rack.

27697

After complete disassembly, the s**k** got dipped in my BOD, like almost all my other parts.

And with some anti-rust paint, it's ready for a new life:

27696

The quill is not ready yet, so I have not re-assembled anything, but this is to show that if you were in any way suspicious about the efficiency of a BOD, I honestly think that no krust can resist a well built and used BOD...

[Canadian818]

Hey Frank, what were the tire prices like from IIM? They don't list prices. I need to read some more tire reviews, as they don't sell the federal's I was planning to go with. Tiretrends sells them though, but not the wheels I want.

[Pearldrummer7]

Everyone probably remembers Krusty the steering rack.

27697

After complete disassembly, the s**k** got dipped in my BOD, like almost all my other parts.

And with some anti-rust paint, it's ready for a new life:

27696

The quill is not ready yet, so I have not re-assembled anything, but this is to show that if you were in any way suspicious about the efficiency of a BOD, I honestly think that no krust can resist a well built and used BOD...

wow! Good as new! Mine only has a little bit of rust, but I might just dump it in the BOD anyway!

Trying calipers tonight in there myself :)

Keep up the awesome work, Frank!




Frank

[Scargo]

That is rather amazing. She has a lot of acne scars though, but it's what inside that matters. ;) Must be lighter. Nice work.

[Frank818]

Tnx guys!

Yes the acne on it (or orange skin like thing) is cuz there was still some stuff on the housing, didn't look like rust but it was like that. I could have used my dremel to grind everything off to the bare alu, but the few hours of work wasn't worth it. That part no one, not even me, will see the acne once installed and with this anti-rust paint, it should not rust.

Canadian,

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 R (Extreme Performance Summer)
Size: 265/35R18
Price: $416.02 per tire

When I check on Tirerack, they are USD$299, but USD$441 in shipping, taxes and duties! Which bring the total to USD$1040+, compared to CAD$840 at IIM. Of course there is shipping, but it was $95 WITH the rims on.

[Frank818]

Got my deleted parts today for the Canadian kit. Without the BOed parts, of course.

All the deleted parts are worth $1800 at FFR on the kit (all prices in USD).
All in all I paid $2820 to get them. What's the added $1020 for? Nope, not a stand alone ECU, nor a RaceLogic Traction Control, but a mark-up over the FFR US price (don't know who cashed it in), freight in, shipping, taxes and customs.
Put that on your budget, Canadians... :)

[Frank818]

Hurray!!!!!!! I succeeded! I've beaten the Canadian government! I just got my approval letter to pass through the customs with my kit and not without. After 6 weeks of waiting. Can you believe that. Rarely I've been stressed out like that.

So I don't need to cancel my vacations, my gf's vacations, my truck rental and pick-up date. Phewww...

If anyone reading this is at FFR on Sat morning at 9h, check out for the 18ft long Ryder truck, that's gonna be me.

[Scargo]

That's great. I'm picking up mine the next Saturday (3d).

[Canadian818]

Congrats Frank, have a safe trip.

[Speedy G]

Frank, we're waiting for your pics...

[Frank818]

I'm back from the Factory.

Will have to wait a week or so for pix and videos, they've been taken all over the place with 2 devices, one of them isn't mine. Gotta sort that out too and choose good ones to post.

I admit going to FFR changed my impression of them. It was already excellent, but now I see it as virtually flawless.

For those who had bad body panels, scratches, dents and etc., read below. For you new builders who never went to FFR, read below too. Here's my review of my 2-day trip.


Took 8.5h to drive south to FFR from Montreal. Got many GPS issues on 2 devices and the google maps I have printed didn't show all of it, especially when not taking the main route (and we know there are LOTS of possible routes in USA to go from point A to B). Followed my car/navigation instinct and at some point the GPS came back to life. Hit a lot of traffic cuz there was a bad option selected in the GPS and it drove me right where I didn't want to. Also I hate those big trucks, 18ft, super bad steering response, super springy seats making you jump to the sky on a bump, very bad braking, gran'pa's acceleration, gran'ma's rear view and distance judgment (=bad), very very loud inside the cabin but damn it can fit a lot in the box! lolll

My advice to first time self pick-upers: get at least 18ft. If you don't, you'll find yourself very confined to walk around and may need to make sacrifices to the way you'll stack boxes or something. 17ft is the minimum I would be comfortable with AS A FIRST TIME self pick-uper and FIRST TIME truck driver. But it's easy to drive such a truck.

Now, the FFR factory tour. I wasn't sure to do it, I didn't want to leave too late and arrive home at 9pm. I entered the showroom. Bam... too f late. lolll That place is awesome! When I saw the cars, they looked like cars from normal big car manufacturers! That didn't look like a raw and cheap build/finish at all! I saw the R, it's so small!! Just like I want! And MUCH better looking in person! Once I finished taking pix of the 818 prototype for showroom and realized how low you sit on that car (awesome), we started the tour with Joe. After that tour, I now understood a lot better how it is at FFR, how they work, what they aim for, the quality of their products, the control, the build from bare metal, everything... My advice to first time visitor who are unsure of taking the tour: shut up and take the tour!! loll You don't have time? Take it!! No excuses are good enough to not take it!

Joe is awesome. That guy needs to be paid 1 million a year. Customer-wise flawless as well. Always smiling, always happy. That guy certainly kicks up the value of FFR to my eyes. If FFR gets bigger with time, I hope they won't lose that proximity with the customer. Don't do that, you'll destroy everything.
The other guy who helped me load the kit was super helpful too! I don't know what drug Dave puts in the vending machines, but it sure is a good one to keep them happy and smiling! loll

Seriously, after that FFR tour, my impression of FFR changed and has gone up pretty much, even though it was excellent before. Tnx for that Joe, if ever you are reading this.

Touching my kit was mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lolll

Now on the body panels. I've read a lot about people having bad panels, scratched, dented, with grass inside, etc. There's nothing on mines! No scratch! For most people using them as is would be perfect, the gelcoat finish is beyond my expectations. I have one small dent on the left hump besides the driver's head, but it's super easy to fix. Otherwise, nothing at all. If I take care of them and prevent them from changing shape over time before I install them, I believe I'll have not much to do in repairs and finish. I am not saying adjustments to make the panels fit flush, I am saying repairs to allow a good paint or wrap. So far it seems perfect for that. I'll see with time.

Took 7.5h from FFR to Montreal, in rain ALL the time. Flawless at the Canadian border. 15mins, paid taxes and off I went.

[Frank818]

My chassis #: 181.

I thought I would end up with something insignificant to me, like #173. But 181 is 818 with inverted numbers. :)

[Canadian818]

Congrats frank! Now the fun begins. Many of us have been looking forward to your build, this thread is about to take off...

[wleehendrick]

My chassis #: 181.

I thought I would end up with something insignificant to me, like #173. But 181 is 818 with inverted numbers. :)

That's cool! Now you just need to adjust your diet so you weigh 181lbs so both numbers represent weight. :p

[Frank818]

My steering rack quill (or whatever you call that thing) once welded:

28423

I now have a fully manual, without any play, steering rack. Just need to re-assemble what's left of it.

[Frank818]

Wow, I just calculated my pick-up costs and they are low!! I did the right decision by picking-up the kit and I could see the factory as well, priceless.

I have gone through my boxes and I think I am missing 2 parts. A U nut, which is nothing, and something else. But I cannot identify what it is cuz I can't identify the following 5 parts:

In Box 6
I have these 5 items left, but I have 6 items unchecked left.

What are each of them referring to or which one am I missing?

80526 Fuse panel mount front
80527 Fuse panel mount rear
80579 Shifter trim plate
80511 Power booster cover plate
80555 Rear turn signal template
80601 Fuel pump hanger

28561

[wleehendrick]

Left to right, the first two are:

80511 Power booster cover plate

80555 Rear turn signal template

I'm pretty sure the middle is 80601 Fuel pump hanger, but I used the Boyd tank, so didn't need it.

I believe the last two are: 80526 Fuse panel mount front and 80527 Fuse panel mount rear

[Frank818]

I love this forum, you get an answer in a split of a second.

Tnx for that, so I might be missing the shifter trim plate.

Interesting cuz I have what looks like a shifter trim plate and it has #80824, which I can't find in my POL. I'll take a pic of that and send to Joe.

[Frank818]

I'm happy to announce that Joe thinks I am the first customer to receive a new FFR part.

Indeed, it's not on the parts list. On the other hand, I don't think it's a major upgrade, just tweaking.

#80824

http://uppix.com/f-2014_04_30_20_185361981400164165.jpg

Apparently, this part used to be 2 alu pieces before and is now one. This explains why I am missing 80579 and have 80824 which is not listed.

To chassis #182+, keep an eye on your parts vs packlist, especially for 80579 vs 80824.

[Frank818]

Hum, interesting, the manual shows a big difference between FFR's chassis and mine.

This is FFR's chassis, you see the 2 steel plates with big holes and one triangular welded from the bottom up (or top down, same thing :)).

28963

Well I don't have these at all. My 2 panels with 2 big holes in them have no steel plate to sit on.

2896428965

Anyone has a chassis like mine?
Or am I missing the steel plates?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hum, interesting, the manual shows a big difference between FFR's chassis and mine.

This is FFR's chassis, you see the 2 steel plates with big holes and one triangular welded from the bottom up (or top down, same thing :)).

28963

Well I don't have these at all. My 2 panels with 2 big holes in them have no steel plate to sit on.

2896428965

Anyone has a chassis like mine?
Or am I missing the steel plates?

Frank
Manual revision 1i covered this change.
Do you have the metal plate shown in this picture?
I suspect one plate for Subaru master cylinders and on for Wilwood double cylinders.
Bob

28966

[Frank818]

Manual revision 1i covered this change.

I don't think so, 1i is the one FFR printed out for me.


Do you have the metal plate shown in this picture?

28966

Ha that's why it's different (though it doesn't explain why my 1i is different than yours). I can't recall having that plate but I'll take a look in my boxes.

Whether I have it or not, it explains the differences between the manual and my chassis.

Tnx Bob :)

I don't have it in my POL!
I'll dig in my boxes.

[Frank818]

Ok well the printed manual 1i FFR provided me is not the 1i version.

I checked the 1i REVISION update and the correction is on that one. But not the full 1i FFR provided me. Maybe I could miss other things, so I will print out all revisions Bob kindly sent to me.

Besides, I have asked another pair of eyes to look for that part and she found it. In the 8F box. It<s not called PEDAL BOX MOUNT as I could expect, but CABLE PEDAL MOUNT, which explains why I didn't find it on the POL. The latter is on the POL and in my 8F box.

Now let's finish that front FW. :)

[Pearldrummer7]

Wilwood double cylinders.


Wow, double cylinders for the Wilwoods, eh? What's the reason for a second cylinder?



-Frank

[Mechie3]

You can use a balance bar to adjust brake bias instead of a proportioning valve. Also, if one cylinder fails completely you have a second so you're not completely without brakes as you try to limp back to the pits.

[STiPWRD]

Frank, I have the same cable pedal mount with my kit. The rev update didn't specify hardware so I used the 10-32 pan head screws and lock nuts since there was a big bag of them. It is sort of surprising that FFR didn't incorporate this update into the rev I full manual.

[longislandwrx]

The holes in the pedal and assembly were bigger, so I used the larger pan head bolt... which fit perfect. However when I tightened it all up I could see the head was deforming the firewall on the bottom, so I switched the bottom one out for a 10-32 with washers.

Worked like a charm.

[Pearldrummer7]

You can use a balance bar to adjust brake bias instead of a proportioning valve. Also, if one cylinder fails completely you have a second so you're not completely without brakes as you try to limp back to the pits.

Ah, makes sense. Thank you for the explanation!

[Frank818]

Also, if one cylinder fails completely you have a second so you're not completely without brakes as you try to limp back to the pits.

That's what the hand brakes are for, no? lolll

[Frank818]

The rev update didn't specify hardware so I used the 10-32 pan head screws and lock nuts since there was a big bag of them.

I got a bag written PEDAL BOX on it with a couple of screws and nuts in it. Aren't these for that steel mount?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I got a bag written PEDAL BOX on it with a couple of screws and nuts in it. Aren't these for that steel mount?

Frank, please let everyone know the size of the screws in the Bag. 10-32 don't sound strong enough to handle my size 13 slamming on the brakes in a panic situation.Bob

[Frank818]

Bob, I actually intend to take a picture tonight of the screws/nuts and why not the bag while I'm there. And I'll try to match it with the exact description in the POL. That was in box 8F.

The panel is called (I believe):

80420 02-05 Cable Pedal Mount


And the only bag of bolts I got in there that is not written to be used for flanges is:

80392 M10-1.25 x 60mm bolt EA 6.

No nuts listed, I really need to check tonight, take a pic and post it.

[Frank818]

Ha! Actually forget 80392 listed above. It's a QTY of 6 and the bag with PEDAL BOX on it has QTY of 5. Interesting, as there is no QTY 5 of anything in box 8F, according to the POL!

And I need 5 bolts, according to the manual.

29000

[Frank818]

For us Canadians, I already mentioned about the excellent customer service at Image In Motion. They can have a LOT of car parts, more than what you see on their website, especially for wheels and tires.

Recently I was waiting for 2 front Rota Torque rims with ET35. Rota delivered the wrong offset, I received ET48. IIM did their best but Rota is a company very hard to deal with (for them at least) and they only know what they get when they get their shipment from Rota. Rota makes mistakes and even if they confirm something will be part of a shipment it often is not. So IIM tried to get the ET35s but it's long and hard with Rota. I cannot wait any longer as I am building up my suspension next week and I need to know if I have to remove the wheel hub studs in order to punch in longer ones to accommodate 10mm spacers.

So I made the cut. I will use 10mm spacers along with longer studs.

IIM will GIVE me for free the spacers/studs combo to apologize for the issues which last since Nov 2013 (Tnxgiving day). Since I am ordering a steering wheel hub and quick release too, they managed to do something for me.

Like I said, IIM has an excellent customer service and great prices as well. I highly recommend that place for any Canadian in need of parts.

[Frank818]

Donor's steering rack:

29135


After a lot of work:

29136



Totally disassembled, welded for no play on the quill, internal parts removed to minimize rubbing, re-greased, de-rusted of course, new rubber mounts, flat black painting and re-assembled. A lot of work, the hardest item so far, but I am extremely plzed with the result.

[RM1SepEx]

Wow, that was crusty! I hope everything from the donor doesn't have all that rust and crap built up!

[Frank818]

Unfortunately yes, it did. :(
You can't believe how many hours I've spent on cleaning the parts and I am still in need of cleaning the steering column end and almost all of the bolts/nuts. I do not know which ones I need to re-use so I do them once I figure out I need them, which slows down a bit the process.

[RM1SepEx]

I just cleaned them all and put them in a drawer. I used Eastwood fast etc, a tumbler with corn cobb media and a wire brush