Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

3169.5h later....
10h45mins without drinking nor eating today...

Car is ready for inspection.



Not fully completed "to my taste" as there are a few adjustments I need to perform, I don't like how it ended up. But won't fail at inspection for that.


Funny, cuz exactly 1 year ago on Aug 5th, it was my 40th birthday and after rushing a full day fixing the damn custom shift linkage I was able to go-kart the car for the 1st time ever. What were the odds, on my 40th birthday.

Now, on my 41st birthday, the car is completed for the 1st time ever (couldn't drive cuz was still wet outside). What are the odds? And what are the odds 2 years in a row for the first 2 major milestones??

That means on Aug 5th 2018 my car will be registered for the 1st time. How ****ing disappointing. lolll



Many holes weren't correctly aligned on my final "put together". Had to waste days re-drilling holes, enlarging them, and all that with plenty of panels on so less clearance to work with. Now that the wrap is on, there isn't much I can change on the body!
Speaking of which, my driver's door hits the very bottom of the fender at full opening. Damn it!!! It wasn't before! I shaved off the fender for clearance long ago. Now with the wrap, I'm screwed... Only option is to create some kind of black highlight for that area using black wrap. I could shave off more the fender and use black wrap to create a visual style. At the moment I put some C style rubber trim, but it moves when the door hits it.
I'm very disappointed, my driver's door is hard to unlatch (need to push) and it hits the fender. The passenger's door opens by itself when unlatching and has plenty of clearance. Why oh why the driver's side? 3200h and it comes to that?

Some other adjustments like my guess-what driver's side quick-latch on the hood. The angle is wrong and it's hard to use.
The hood also rubs VERY slightly on the guess-what-again driver's side fender's lip and on the nose insert (suing Craig's ZeroDB hinges). Nothing to **** up my wrap but I need to be careful. I raised the hood on the driver's side and it helped but still rubbing. If the guy at inspection plays with the hood opening/closing it, it could scratch the wrap if he doesn't do it the way I found to do it best. I'll have to tell him that piece is very fragile.

A few other things like that. All can probably be fixed in time but I won't now, I want my plate first, I want it so bad, sooo bad... you've got no idea.


Beware guys, installing the splitter and under rad panel when you have the lower opening of the new nose blocked off like me, is a real pain!!!! There is only ONE sequence of installation to follow and you will scratch your arms and hands on CF and fiberglass (if you are alone to do that it's a PAIN). You will sweat and swear. You also need a good 6-pack in order to lift your upper body off the ground for a certain time while you are laying under the car, trying to reach the most fwd bolts. A true intense workout. Made me hit my head countless number of times on the ****ing steering tie-rod ends!

I hope never to remove these elements, but I know I will.
Same thing on the rear splash guards, I used bolts and nuts at the bottom. But the front ones (bolts/nuts) are super hard to bolt when you work alone. Someone with a 1mm bigger arm than mine wouldn't make it. And I ain't got one of those big arms to start with. Should use rivnuts!! This is a TIP.


How does the car look? Well... I'm waiting to go outside to take pix, cuz those pix will go to the DMV as well, but for now I tell ya that the rear diffuser (3" or 3.75? out) and front splitter (3.5" out from bottom of nose) change COMPLETELY the look of the car!!

IT'S A REAL KILLA!!!!!!!

My front bumper color pattern makes the car look really special and my lighting makes it look very angry.
The blue/black is KILLA!

Can't wait to upload pix.



In the meantime, here's the bolt pattern of my splitter, if anyone is trying to find out how to fix it in place in a solid way.

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[BN]

Happy birthday frank

[Frank818]

Tnx Ben!

[mikeb75]

Holding breath in anticipation! Happy belated birthday, and despite the details not being absolutely perfect you have accomplished something tremendous. I hope you take time to feel the satisfaction you are due.

(... ok, its been enough time -pics!! ;) )

[AZPete]

Happy Birthday, Frank!! You've accomplished so much that you deserve a drink or three to celebrate both 41 and a KILLA 818!!

Well, okay, I'll have a couple of drinks, also.

[Frank818]

(... ok, its been enough time -pics!! ;) )

I also thought that! However this morning when I was about to get it out for pix when I clipped on my s/w it intermittently triggered my horn. An old problem coming back, tabarnak. I thought I'd fixed it.

There are 3 ways to shut that screaming kid off: remove the front splash guards and unplug the plug on the horn; remove the dash and unplug the fuse; unclip my s/w.

None are clever! And a total no-go for inspection of course.

But just about now I think I fixed the problem. It was some dielectric grease that I put on the connectors (2x half a sphere gold connectors) of the hub and adapter. I suspect the grease was connecting all connectors together in a bad connection, making it intermittent.

I also fixed 2-3 other things while I was still working on the car and installed my side mirrors that I somehow forgot! loll Boy oh boy the car looks aggressive and sporty when fully complete, with that color pattern and mostly with the front splitter and rear diffuser. That splitter changes everything.

If tomorrow is not rainy, I guess it should all work, now!


Pete, yes I did, but too much of it, so today I felt a bit sick. loll

[Frank818]

Damn, car is not ready yet. :(

1- Left wheel STILL rubs on inner splash guard, I have to space out another steering travel restrictor, I think I'll be at 15mm! Fixable though.
2- My horn is STILL intermittently triggered when the s/w is clipped on. :( Even if I disconnect the wires INSIDE the s/w it triggers the horn! Wow... I had to put an electric tape on the gold connectors inside the NRG adapter and that fixed it. But I won't pass inspection. Maybe the problem is inside the NRG adapter? I can't recall how wires are connected there. But who knows how long it'll take me to fix...
3- The EZ-Cool heat insulation I glued in place underneath the panels will not stick there long. They almost unstick already including some portions of the aluminum foil tape I used. Maybe I should stick the insulation with silicon sealant?

I can confirm that Craig's (ZeroDB) hump louvers are working awesome. Hot heat escapes in vast quantity through both louvers even without the use of my fan located right under the right side louver. Put you hand over one and it's quite hot after running at idle.


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I am now sending 64 pictures and 6 documents to my DMV. That is on top of the previous pix sent since last Feb.

[Frank818]

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[flynntuna]

Looks fantastic! Hope you get it registered before the fist snow. When is that, two weeks from now? :rolleyes:

[Frank818]

Damn, car is not ready yet. :(

1- Left wheel STILL rubs on inner splash guard, I have to space out another steering travel restrictor, I think I'll be at 15mm! Fixable though.

Fixed with 21mm of travel restrictors!!
The higher the suspension the closer to the splash guard the tire gets. Since I needed to raise the suspension to its MAX in order to pass the 15" min height for the front side markers, it makes it rub more. And also cuz my coolant tube touches slightly on the alu sheet so it pushes it a little bit outside, that doesn't help either. Not sure how to fix that yet as the tube is clamped with 2 C clamps using rivnuts on the frame. Can't move really.


2- My horn is STILL intermittently triggered when the s/w is clipped on. :( Even if I disconnect the wires INSIDE the s/w it triggers the horn! Wow... I had to put an electric tape on the gold connectors inside the NRG adapter and that fixed it. But I won't pass inspection. Maybe the problem is inside the NRG adapter? I can't recall how wires are connected there. But who knows how long it'll take me to fix...

15mins. That's what it took me. Turns out the wires inside the s/w were connected the wrong way, the - was connected to the + and vice-versa. That also explains the different horn sound I used to have. Now the sound is back to normal, a nice "horny" sound (do you get the joke? loll) and it doesn't turn on intermittently.




Looks fantastic! Hope you get it registered before the fist snow. When is that, two weeks from now? :rolleyes:

Tnx!
Hopefully no snow in 2 weeks, I'll get crazy!!! lolll

[AZPete]

Frank, it is absolutely KILLA, as you promised! I really like how you've followed the blue theme throughout, like the steering wheel, velour interior, blue NACA ducts, the steering wheel hub and even the blue Ricaro logo on the seat backs (how'd you do dat?). It looks aggressive with the splitter, spoiler and louvered vents. I'm sure once you are out in public, guys will be asking "what make is it?" and never guess it is a kit. You make us proud!

Frank, when you get time, I'd like to know where you got the sun visor and the E-brake boot.
Congrats!!!
Pete

[mikeb75]

Wow! (actually speechless).

[Frank818]

Tnx guys. I told ya it'd look special, I was speechless for hours as well when I first saw the car fully completed.

Pete, it was part of my design to follow through on the dual colors, you are correct. Some parts were much harder to find.
As for the Recaros, well they are OEM from my Corrado!!! lolll
I wanted to change their color and have the blue and black as well, but I admit the grey with light green and blue stitching is more than cool enough for me at the moment. Electrical and heated seats. Not that heated seats is useful for you but it is for me in spring and autumn!

SUNVISOR
Got off of ebay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/-/121685613528?
It'll say the item has ended but you got a bunch listed on the page.

EBOOT
HA!!!! You'll laugh... that's FFR's old shifter's boot!! I painted it with vinyl paint and used it for the ebrake, but it's a bit too big and you have to be creative as to how you organize the too much leather at the front which causes the notch on the ebrake to squeeze the leather. I fixed it, it works well.

[STiPWRD]

That turned out beautiful, I'm loving the blue

[BN]

You make us proud! Félicitation

[Frank818]

Tnx guys.


Those looking for a solution to launch the 818 with maximum traction, why don't you "simply" implement this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5nnD6h2iY

[frankc5r]

The Microsquirt ecm has launch control standard but not planning on using it.

[Hindsight]

Frank, I missed this yesterday but wanted to congratulate you on a job well done! The car came out amazing and was worth the wait! Hope you are able to get it licensed soon.

[redfogo]

Wonderful and amazing job! Congratulations!

[Frank818]

Tnx again guys.

Today was very very very special. 1st day in years I was not working on the car. I am organizing the next steps for inspections.

1- Get an official weight certificate (Wed 10ham)
2- Get the parts certified by the police, that nothing has been stolen (Wed afternoon if it goes like what they told me, which is the cop comes to my home and checks my invoices)
3- Go to inspection and fail. I mean pass.


I received, very late this afternoon, my pre-approval from the DMV AS SEEN ON THE PIX HERE!! Which means a the front splitter, a quick disconnect s/w (though it has a security button, which is a question he just asked today) and everything else I can't remember that would be rejected. For the DMV, I am good to go for inspection.
The DMV also told me to watch my front ball joints, as they don't work under compression anymore. He knows about that!!!! Since this design has been approved by FFR, my DMV accepted it, but just warned me.
Whose DMV knows that much about the 818?? None, apart QC's. Now guys, just with this, I think you can picture how deep into a hand-crafted car QC's DMV is...


If the cop thing works out fine tomorrow, then I only need to pass inspection and it's over.


There is one thing I'd like to tell you, after seeing the Eagle Eyes and China LED Strips working outside on a cloudy day, I can tell you do not use these as your lights! These amber Chinese lights are almost imperceptible outside, even on a cloudy day, just imagine when sunny. They are too small and/or not powerful enough. You should either use no lights and no turn signals at all, or get yourself some real powerful lights. But plz don't use those Eagle Eyes and LED strips lights thinking they work just like any normal DRLs and TSs. You will not be seen with those.

[frankc5r]

Frank,
Glad to hear your so close. Hope it all goes well.

Happy to get feedback on Eagle Eyes.. You may remember when I tested them last winter, I told you they were less than 1 watt compared to the advertised 10 watts. Thanks for info.. I wont use mine,
just be a science experiment!!

[Frank818]

Definitely, I do remember.
If you think people will see you are indicating to turn left so they won't accelerate and hit you in the fender or door, well my guess is there is 20% chances they will see you are indicating to turn left (given the FFR's new headlights are very bad to see the lights from a left angle) and I believe that is only if they put attention to your lights. If they don't, the lights will probably not attract their attention (the rest of the car will) and they won't know what you're about to do. This increases chances of a collision, doesn't mean there will be one, just that to my opinion after what I tested, others have low chances to see your intentions with the Eagle Eyes or LED Strips (of 9w).

[aquillen]

<< These amber Chinese lights are almost imperceptible outside, even on a cloudy day, just imagine when sunny. >>

We should have known better, but sometimes get caught up in the chase. The switchback driver should be able to handle a lot more light - will have to test that, assuming I can find some suitable/better lights. I'm going to look into what's available and also do some lumens measurements when I get a chance. Would like to continue with the program but with proper visibility. I'd wonder if the DMV guys at your end will snoop cat-eyes.

Also obvious they have someone dedicated to really examining the kit cars in extensive detail. I don't recall hearing of that anywhere in the US. Just keep it a secret that Indiana is about as close to a do-what-you-want place as can be. (Hmmm is it even safe to get out on the roads here?). I can tell you this - drive on I-65 between Chicago and Indianapolis and you better have an 85MPH capable or better vehicle or you'll get run-over like a possum.

Oh- and-
Love your car man - great job !!!

[Frank818]

I have a video showing the differences between the EE/Strip and standard SAE TS outside. I am not posting it yet because I want to try a few more and see if I get the same results, although it was pretty obvious on Monday in person.

Yes the DMV has someone full time on that. He might doing other things but all part of the "vehicle security" department. Currently he is soon going to read IBox's website to see how my wifi system works, to control functions. Seems to be something twitchy for them, although at the moment mine is ok. But for example, I cannot lock the tablet if not all of the controls to "drive" a car are available outside of the tablet.

He approved the EE only for the white LEDs acting as parking lights. Those don't need to be powerful. And they aren't in sunlight, well they are ok but not big enough. The whites would greatly benefit to be bigger but it's still acceptable as they are now. The ambers, need both, bigger and more powerful. Don't forget, when you are 80-deg on the side of the car (at a 4-way stop for instance), the headlight's round sockets are barely visible cuz too much inside the headlight and the fiberglass contour cuts some of the view. It's hard to see a light, even powerful, at that angle with these headlights design. If the EEs are not powerful than it's even worse.

I already knew the EE (amber TS) weren't powerful, I tested their lumens with a cell app in March and compared with my Subaru's TS. The difference was about 5 to 8 times less powerful, depending on the angle you look at.

[Frank818]

My car officially weighs 1050kg (uh, 2330lbs).
If I get 450whp, which I'm pretty sure I can, that's about 520bhp assuming a 15% loss. Makes it 0.22bhp/lbs.
Veyron SS with 1200bhp has 0.296bhp/lbs. Not bad.

The NRG quick release s/w hub has been approved by my DMV, cuz it has a safety feature, it's not possible to remove the wheel by just pulling the paddles.

The Police passed by for stolen parts inspection. The girl actually was there to look at things, take notes and open a case file. Then she sent that info to the technician policeman who in turn will call me back to schedule a rdv in my garage. That guy will check every single invoice I got, check all parts, etc. The lead time to get that rdv is... 1 month.

So the car will sit there untouched or so until I get that rdv. I think I will tow it to the dyno and get that done completely before inspection.

I inadvertently fixed my hard to open driver's door. Turned out the screw inside the handle was not tight enough, the handle was therefore at an angle and made it harder to pull totally on the rod. Works like a charm now, makes me much happier.

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Guy in black shirt is my favorite tower or towing man. On the last pic, don't you think her behind looks like Kim Kardashian's?

Many people came talking to me while moving the car around. Even some in the 80s. The only way to escape the mob is to drive without stopping. loll

[svanlare]

Just getting back to the forum after a bit away.... WOW!!!!! I'm not surprised there is a mob you have to deal with. Stunning job Frank

[Harley818]

Frank, your car looks great!
I know you spent a lot of time on it but you can be proud of the way it looks.
Hope your approval comes in soon.

[Frank818]

Tnx Steve and Harley.


Since I have nothing to do for 1 month I thought of going on the dyno Monday. But with the splitter and diffuser I don't think it's possible to attach the dyno hooks.

I posted in General section but where are the best attach points if I remove the splitter and diffuser?
If you think I can keep them on, then great!! But where to attach anyway? :)

[Frank818]

Confirmed, DYNO RUNS (1, 2 maybe up to 3 hours) on Monday 14th @ 8ham.

Do you guys think it's best to shut down the engine every time I am modifying values in the computer and looking around? Would that help the engine from over heating?

This will be a perfect test for my axles and CV Boots. If they all hold up for those runs and I don't see any visual weird things on them, then I'll know they should last good.

Will attach the straps on the alu LCAs and gearbox frame underneath, the X that is there.

[Frank818]

Video of TS comparison (@Art, gotta check this).


http://youtu.be/7qzPWy-jvQw

I wanted not to show anyone the OEM TS I had to install, cuz I will upgrade for approved powerful LEDs in a while, but since I cannot pass inspection until probably mid-Sept, I didn't want to wait more. So I am exposing the solution I've been ashamed of, but remember, I will upgrade for cool LEDs soon!

[Frank818]

My took hook has been approved. That was very unexpected, but very welcomed as I don't need to keep a 18mm and 21mm wrenches in the car along with the hook itself. In a nutshell, if the hook isn't too pointy and does not extend beyond the vertical line of the front of the car, you may well be ok.

[metros]

Really like the color and how everything turned out. I'm hoping you get video of the dyno.

[Frank818]

I have Mike Everson's hard coolant lines with the rad inlet on the top right (passenger's side).

There is that plastic black fill cap overflow coupler with 13240 written upside down.

Does anyone know what type it is? American? European? Japanese?

All I know is that that Behr cap fits.

I'm trying to change the cap as it opens around 22psi (150kpa) and let's a lot of coolant flow into the rad's overflow tank, so the coolant that is in my VW overflow tank located higher is flowing there. If I open up the cap, it will spill cuz there is coolant at a higher level (my engine head sits quite higher too).

I'm trying to know the hole size, probably around 1.5", and what type that coupler is. People selling fill caps often don't know their size, they just know "fits Japanese", "fits American"...

Mike himself doesn't know the size.


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[Frank818]

Really like the color and how everything turned out. I'm hoping you get video of the dyno.

Tnx.
That's my plan but may not be "the" video, just "a" video during the session. I will be tuning myself the very most of the session. Once I get to a final power pull, which will be done by the tuner, I intend to take a video, yes. And the dyno chart, DUUUH!!!!!! lolll

[Frank818]

I think I've asked someone already about that but I also think it's still very unclear in my head.

I have gen1 tank (33 rod).
I have a 5/8" vent line from top of tank to inlet of fuel filler cap so that air can be pushed out of the tank and back to atmosphere when filling fuel.

Question is, how do I know when the tank is full? Will the gun click and stop automatically like it does with normal cars? Or do I have to watch through the filler tube and once I see gas I stop?

I do not know approx how much gas I have in the tank now. The sender is useless and I don't know my fuel consumption, so my guess is anywhere between 1/4 and 2/3. If I go at fuel station and fill her up, how do I know when to stop?

[flynntuna]

When it starts pouring out the top. Sorry man, couldn't help it, the devil made me do it. Lol

[Frank818]

Then what is the 818 missing to behave like a normal car here?

[Frank818]

Warning for everyone.
Fuel leak alert.
Test your tank 4 times, once or twice is not enough.

I added fuel yesterday I think I'm about at half now. When I tilt the rear right of the car, I get an important leak on the far left of the tank and it drips from the 1st cut underneath the frame between the integrated flat panel and the tube. See pic. My EZCool gets yellow as you can see.

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I sprayed air and it sprayed off fuel like if it came off of an injector. I guess I did good atomisation but this is outside the engine. lolll

I believe it's the fuel sender, again and again.

My worry? I have wires running there, I don't know what can happen if fuel drips on those wires and connections when the car will be tilted to roll on the towing, while engine running. That freaks me out. Is there a danger?


I want to fix it before tomorrow but I won't have time, I am at my parents' and to have access to the tank when I come back I need to remove the seatbelts' reels which means I need to remove the side sails in order to access a washer I squeezed between the FW and reels' brackets. Without that washer the FW was distorting when torquing the reels, changing the angle at the bottom of the upper FW panel and seats couldn't recline back. If I remove the FW without grabbing the washers, they will fall between crevices and I may not find them again. What a STUPID design I did there, I should have glued the damn washers in place!

The leak is not what worries most, cuz I have time before inspection to track it and fix it, it's the fact I can't access it before rolling onto the towing tomorrow at 7h30am.
Or I remove the sails and don't reattach them for dyno session. I believe I need to have the splash guards off too otherwise the front of those would rub on the trailing links. Humm, maybe I don't have enough time to remove all that properly anyway... or I just let the washers fall off somewhere and I pray I can get back later or they fall in a place they won't make noise or cause other issues...

Many guys here got caught with leaking tank after the car was complete.


All that to say TEST LEAK YOUR TANK MORE THAN ONCE!

[Frank818]

Frank, fuel does not conduct electricity.
Requires right mix between fuel vapors and heat to ignite.
Unless it's really hot around the filler inlet at the tank nothing should burn.

[flynntuna]

Frank, a fuel leak is not something to ignore or put off. I wouldn't even leave the car in the garage unless you're working on it.

Remember 1gal of gas =10 sticks of dynamite.

[Frank818]

Totally agree. The leak is only when I have that much fuel in and car is tilted, not levelled. As it is now it doesn't leak.

[Frank818]

Fuel level sender all right.

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I removed the FW without the sails, got lucky.
I saw fuel leaking from the sender, but only when tilting the car, which means the fuel level is just a bit under the sender (at least I know exactly how much fuel there is! loll). Got lucky too.

It's leaking from the circle inside the ring. I never thought of that. It was leaking all over the place, front of tank, side and rear. Will evaporate with time.

I put some fuel sealant, a lot of it this time, hopefully it'll work. I'll put more later on just in case. And I will revisit the pump's ring cuz it's certainly the same problem, it's the same stupid design!

This tank is dangerous. It has at least 6 major design flaws, one of which is a 2" drain hole at the bottom left. lolll


My advice: exaggerate!!! Put sealant everywhere, tighten as much as possible and test, test, test, test the tank many times.


I am going to the dyno tomorrow. It's probably the only available slot in 2017 and I need a tune before hitting the road. Plus I need to know if the CVs and boots will last, the dyno is the safest place I can test that (no the track isn't, I don't have a tune to go fast enough and accelerate hard enough). If they don't, I have the winter to find a solution. No way I'm gonna find that next Spring when season kicks off!

[Frank818]

@MemeNerf, for some reason the forum does not allow me to respond to your PM, only delete it.

Tnx for the kind words, I think it does truly look very awesome, I am myself impressed.
How much it cost me will never be the same for someone else.

- As a pioneer on this build, next ones "the same" would all cost less
- I didn't pay for my engine, came from my car
- I got the G50 for much less than its value
- I had to do A LOT of R&D, which means buying many many parts for nothing. Anyone following my path could cut a lot on this
- I am in Canada, therefore prices are higher and shipping is ridiculously high. Someone from US could cut a lot of money if doing a similar build to mine

30k, 50k, 70k, 90k, it means nothing because of the above. :(

However if you can answer the above points for yourself, I could provide you with a good ballpark. :)

[Frank818]

A LOT has happened on the dyno today!
With a dyno, you learn everything about your car, no secrets can be hidden.


GOOD NEWS
The tuner, over 15years on his dyno, fixed many issues which makes the car a lot smoother!
- It now cranks and starts up as fast as yours and as fast as an OEM VR6 when it came out of the dealer. I know what to look for if I play with this now
- Fixed the idle woes after starting which made the rpms wave a little for 2sec
- Fixed idle issues where the idle was dropping too low and coming back up too high before stabilizing (after an over-run)
- Fixed neutral rpm blips that were too slow to react and popping, now it's fast and smooth
It took 3h to do all that, including looking at all my other settings and checking things.
- AWIC big HE works AWESOME even with my 3gal tank! On the pic you can see a 8C drop but it went up to 11C and most of the time a constant 10C. That's is very interesting. The 14" rad fan was ON all the time and hood closed.

Proof Sexy Virgie was there, without her splitter, engine cover and diffuser (you can see the straps' attach points and how tall the guy was):

723067230772308723097231072311


We don't see these often. And this one is supercharged by BASCH.

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BAD NEWS
- Always too lean when turbo kicks in. Guy asked me "do you have fuel pressure?" I said I don't know I don't have a gauge. He said **** get one!!! It's super important and damn he's right!!! I could have fixed the issue myself years ago with such a gauge!! We disconnected the fuel outlet, spilled fuel all over the tank and around the crevices, connected a gauge and fired her up!!

15psi!!!!! Mabe I'm not clear. Fifteen PSI! Instead of 45! ALL THE TIME NO MATTER THE MAP, TPS AND RPM!!! What a crap pump!!! Chinese Walbro 255 knock off! Do NOT buy these! They are 40-50 bucks but save the money to buy a real one!

So I bought this at a discount, tell me I did good, 320lph@43psi, turbine style (less failures and no noise):

72314


It's not cool to change the pump in that crappy FFR gen1 tank, but it's not too complicated and feasible relatively quickly.


- Engine dead
Yes, the engine is dead. :( It's the end of the season for me, no road driving until at least next Spring.
When I arrived at the dyno I told the guy Cyl5 was a little wet and we'll see what happens.
After 3h, when he wanted to start a run, we hit the lean fuel issue and also some blue smoke not smelling gas coming out of exhaust. 3 incomplete runs we did until checking the pump and stopping there.
Later on I removed the plug. Check it out!

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That is wet! Doesn't smell fuel at all, this is oil, my rings are probably shut. I can still start the engine quickly and idle fine. If I blip throttle, a little smoke comes out, now. But I can still get the car plated with this. Next time I start the engine, it's for inspection. Then I'll try to see if I can have a 45mins drive in 2017 and then it's over.

I guess I have to remove everything and while I'm there, change pistons (ceramic coated, teflon skirts, forged, etc.), rods (4340 H-beam, etc.), make the head higher flow, supporting up to 7500rpm (!!), etc. With this I could get 800hp, but would like to stick at 450whp and why not 500whp if I control linear boost increase to prevent the huge torque kick in.
I had over a year to do that when the engine was out of any car, but it was running fine then, although cyl5 was always more black than the others. We killed it at the track and on the dyno.

105k km and maybe 30k of turboing with extreme exhaust restrictions, that didn't help the rings.


Like I said a while back, this project never ends... I'm not the only with who needed to remove the engine or gearbox right after everything was completed! It's just that after 3300h I thought God would let me cool off a little. 2018 will be my year, then.

[frankc5r]

Did you have a wide band o2 while you were testing the car before dyno. It would have spotted the low fuel pressure for sure. lesson learned. If you do not have one, get one before tuning
the revised engine. Info on all running parameters is vital.
Car looks super. very nice job.

[Frank818]

Yup I do have a wideband right up in my dash connected to ECU as well. It was spotting the lean mixture but we couldn't tell if it was a fuel map issue or fuel pressure issue, due to lack of pressure gauge. We caught it right on time before engine could blow up. At least that's good news in that bad news, other guys here weren't that lucky, unfortunately.

[Harley818]

Hey Frank,
I don't know if this applies to VW as well, but when I had my dyno session, and we were looking for the misfire, we changed the plugs out.
He said just use the normal plugs, not the iridium ones. The iridium apparently last longer, but the normal plugs have a better spark.
I'd rather change out plugs if its a better spark.

[Frank818]

Yeah I did change the plugs just before the dyno. They are not iridium.

I believe the cyl got very hot, my mech suggested me to try the new pump first and get good pressure and fuel under load. It would cool the piston and cyl and may fix the issue. Agreed the engine is tired but if it fixes the issue I could drive with say 7-8psi and wait a year before opening the engine. I'll know soon enough.

[Speedy G]

Dude.... that sucks, but what's a good hobby if it ends?

I always thought a fuel gauge and a pyrometer were more important than an a/f gauge since exhaust leaks can give you faulty data. Also, I don't trust gas station octane numbers. The only way to know if you're close to knocking is with a pyrometer. You might as well get one while you're at it. It seems like your cyl 5 is the hottest one, which is probably why it failed first. I'd put the pyrometer on the cyl 5. Get one with max temp memory. You should run less than 900C. I had a greddy peak + alarm gauge. Worked great since you get an audible alarm when you're over a set number.

Good luck, and seriously, enjoy the rebuild. There's a reason you didn't buy an audi R8.

Speedy G

[Speedy G]

Oh, and dude, you hit it out of the park in terms of looks. The car turned out crazy hot. I can't wait to see it cream Teslas for breakfast.

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Tnx Speedy!




but what's a good hobby if it ends?

Good point, although the hobby here is not to inject tons of money, work on it 30h/week and never drive it. :) I would have liked to have at least a summer before something major would go wrong.

Pyrometer is a good option too, I'll keep it on my list.



There's a reason you didn't buy an audi R8.

Yes, Audi didn't want to build it the way I wanted, so I ditched them. lolll

[Frank818]

God damn I'll be damned.

The new AEM 320lph pump is awesome! I needed to remove 30% off of my fuel map!! The Chinese GSS340/341 255 Walbro imitation was so ROTTEN and pushing so little fuel it explained why I had to have my injectors opened for 30-40% longer and why anything under boost was too lean.

Now I have to re-do completely my fuel map, but I have an idea, since my idle fuel seems to be very close to what it was on my Corrado, I'll re-use my last Corrado map + 10% and work it out from there.


I don't think blue smoke came out of the exhaust. A lot of black smoke though!! At cold start it was running in the low 9AFR!! I'm amazed the engine cranked and started without an issue. There's still some life in it!

But my next step is to check the plugs, then leak test my cylinders. I have the tools, just that I don't know if I need to do it when engine warm (probably) and how to bring each cyl at TDC. Gotta google on that or call my mech tom.


I think I fixed my reverse lights intermittently not working. I cut off the offset pin of a 1157 bulb to make it fit in the socket and these bulbs are not only working since Friday but also are brighter.

[Frank818]

Oh yeah, HUGE tnx to AZ from Pete! I mean Pete from AZ.

He was right. Every day now I start to realize all the hard work I somehow managed to pull out on this build. And what I recently realized is that so far none of the stuff that I have built or installed actually failed.

Nothing broke, fell off or stopped working. All that failed had nothing to do with what I did. Considering the level of complexity of the build, I realized I pulled off some magic, cuz I never never thought I would be able to do it without mistakes that would make something fail. But so far none.

[longislandwrx]

Frank I am ridiculously impressed with the progress you have made so far. At times I had feelings that this would never get finished, well I was wrong, despite this last setback the end is certainly in sight.

Proud of you brother, you've made me eat some humble pie and I'm certainly motivated by your accomplishments.

Now get this engine sealed up and put some real power down!

[Frank818]

Tnx Long. I appreciate. I think it proves if someone puts down the efforts all can be done. I cannot compare with other builds as this is my 1st but gee it wasn't easy.

Currently working on sealing it up, I want to do a leak down test but I can't reach the crank's bolt properly to turn the engine (clearance!). I'll try a compression test in the meantime. I'd really like to change all the internals this winter. Even if the engine is still good, I know it's fading away with time so why not upgrading this winter and putting down full reliable power as early as next Spring...

[Frank818]

Man tnx a lot Long! After reading your post I decided to give another try on turning the engine. I found a tool (need to buy a better this morning though but I know what!) and was able to reach the bolt and turn the engine. It moves very slowly as I am at the tip of my arm with little clearance, but the wide jaw adjustable wrench is working. Just need to be careful not to strip the bolt. I'm off to the tool shop and this week I'll leak down it.

Need to find TDC on #5 with engine all closed up, but if I leak down at the spots the piston is at the top (I know how to determine that), one of the 2 will be TDC. I should know by comparing the readings.

[codename Bil Doe]

Pull all the spark plugs. Compression on all cylinders becomes 0 and makes the engine super easy to turn over.

IF you can pull the valve covers it makes leakdown testing super quick. Turn over until both valves are closed. No perfect TDC needed. Also remember to be in gear so air pressure doesn't spin the motor on you.

[Frank818]

Pretty much Bill!
I watched a couple of vids and yeah removing the cover is the one I'd like the most, but to avoid more leaks when putting the cover back on (if I can't seal it properly like it happened in the past), in the end I think I'll try using the balloon technique to find the compression stroke and then sticking a stick or long screwdriver in the plug hole to reach TDC. If I have problems I'll remove the cover. Removing it definitely is super quick to find TDC anywhere.

I forgot about removing all plugs to make it easier to turn though, thank god you're here to remind me!

I was under the impression air pressure would not turn the motor when at TDC, but I'll put it in gear in case. Tnx.

I'm just waiting for my VW spark plug removal tool (made of steel) to arrive, my OEM plastic one failed and I can't remove any plug, now.

[Frank818]

I'm impressed.

I was able to remove wires with my fingers on 1-3-5 cuz I can reach the rubber around the lead, but 2-4-6 aren't removeable until I get my new tool.

Decided to give a try anyway.

On my 1st leakage test I got a 18% leak on my assumed worn out rings of cyl5. I did the test again 2 more times (they suggest 3+ readings and averaging cuz there could be up to 10% variations between readings) and the 2 next tests came out at 25-27% leak.

72726

A new engine is about 10-15% leak and after 105k km on the odo I think 25% is pretty good.
The leak was coming out of the oil dip stick, which is normal on a cold engine to have leaks on rings and through the crankcase.

I tried on cyl3 but I got 85% leak, must have missed compression stroke or TDC, I didn't use the balloon technique on this one cuz cyl3 is suppose to fire after cyl5. Anyway I'll redo from scratch on this one.


This is how I found Compression Stroke on cyl5. Hey, who said I didn't have creativity to find solutions?


72725


I like how US General's 94190 leak down kit works. Uses only 15-20psi instead of 100, which is easier on a small compressor like mine, it can keep its pressure a long time.

[longislandwrx]

LOL Safety first right?

at least you used ribbed for your engine's pleasure.

[Frank818]

lolll I know it looks funny, some may also think inappropriate, but when you check the specs of these things you quickly understand that the membrane is very sensitive to any air pressure change. It was very easy to find TDC and when I double checked with a stick on the piston, I barely needed to move it.

[mia65cobra]

Cool build thread...haven't been able to get through to the end yet. Will keep going through it later tonight when it's quiet around here. I left off on page 11, right around when you bought your welder..lol I'm sure at this stage that seems like ages ago. Very nice car! Sub'd

[Frank818]

Cool build thread...haven't been able to get through to the end yet. Will keep going through it later tonight when it's quiet around here. I left off on page 11, right around when you bought your welder..lol I'm sure at this stage that seems like ages ago. Very nice car! Sub'd

Thanks for that!

Yes the welder I bought is ages ago in my head. loll I guess you'll read this once you get to page 40. loll
So much happened since the welder, very bad stuff and then very good stuff in the end, so make sure to run up to page 40. :)

[Frank818]

On a different note, how about a story of a 1400kg+ carbon brakes Porsche GT3 RS 3.6 (415bhp?) vs a 890kg WRX 818S?

There is a small track in Montreal where for a couple of years the best lap time was owned by a Porsche GT3 RS with semi-slick tires.

The one and only 818S registered in QC tried to beat that time using a 3.90FD and Goodrich KDW tires. Pumping about 350whp. Didn't work.
Changed to Yoko ADVAN Neova AD08 R (like mines) and... beat the time by .06!!!!

HAIL TO THE KING 818!!!!!!!!! :D (and yoko tires) Who knew an 818 could beat an 911... an 911 GT3... an 911 GT3 RS... an 911 GT3 RS with semi-slick!!!!

[mia65cobra]

That's pretty awesome. I'm a big Porsche fan...I have an 03 Turbo. Love it!

[Harley818]

On a different note, how about a story of a 1400kg+ carbon brakes Porsche GT3 RS 3.6 (415bhp?) vs a 890kg WRX 818S?

There is a small track in Montreal where for a couple of years the best lap time was owned by a Porsche GT3 RS with semi-slick tires.

The one and only 818S registered in QC tried to beat that time using a 3.90FD and Goodrich KDW tires. Pumping about 350whp. Didn't work.
Changed to Yoko ADVAN Neova AD08 R (like mines) and... beat the time by .06!!!!

HAIL TO THE KING 818!!!!!!!!! :D (and yoko tires) Who knew an 818 could beat an 911... an 911 GT3... an 911 GT3 RS... an 911 GT3 RS with semi-slick!!!!


Frank, here are some more stats........
you started of FFR forum.....Jun 2013

4935 posts later
3200+ hours working on the car
.....your car looks awesome.... that must feel good
you've had your first frustrating track day... Post #1482 and got a taste of the handling.... that feels good
solving the problems that come up.... that's rewarding.....

I can't tell you how it feels to drive it for two weeks straight.... you will have to experience it yourself.....
......just wait till you can drive it on the street..... blow by lesser cars.... blow by wannabee cars... blow by high performance cars.
Best a GT3 RS??!!! Awesome.
Your right foot will not cooperate.... it will always wants to push.....

.... the feeling of satisfaction..... that you planned this car.... built this car.... is irreplaceable.......
you will have fun just driving... cruising.....I can't say any more......
......... It is worth it!!!!
I am amazed at your patience.

[Frank818]

Absolutely true Harley, there are no other words to say, tnx.

[Frank818]

Cylinder Leak down tests completed.

105k km OEM internals engine
1992-2002 NA
2002-2006 7.5psi SC
2006-onwards 18psi turbo

Never beaten the engine, always kept it in a controlled climate (temps and humidity).

Tests performed when engine cold. Can't do it when warm as I need to put my face on the turbo in order to over reach the crank bolt to turn the engine.
All tests where repeated 3 to 5 times and all numbers came in within about 5%. The below are averages.

Loss:
Cyl1 = 22%
Cyl2 = 26%
Cyl3 = 30%
Cyl4 = 13%
Cyl5 = 26%
Cyl6 = 15%

I was a bit wrong in my previous understanding. This is what I gathered:

Normal new and very good condition engine when cold between 1-10%
Good engine but keep an eye on things between 10-20%
Max difference between 2 cylinders 10-15%, debatable, but numbers should be consistent
Max leak per cylinder 30%, requires maintenance then.

So yeah, the engine is not in a very good condition. Specially that the numbers are not consistent at all. None of the cylinders are in very good condition and only 2 are in OK condition. One is way out.
All the leaks where coming out of the crankcase.


I'll try to get the engine rebuilt this winter, I should know next week on that.
If I do, then 500-550whp for next Spring.

[Frank818]

This project has turned to a different path.

After the disappointing and alarming leak down results, it's time for an internal upgrade. There is no way I can drive a full summer under full boost with these numbers.

This will be completed for Spring 2018, assuming I pass inspection in 2017.

I will probably only drive the car 45mins in 2017, 100% under 3500rpm. :( Then I get it opened.


All the parts will be good for 800whp, but my AWIC chokes around 500 (easy to change though, it's just the core), my axles it's unclear maybe 700 according to DSS, maybe 300 due to axle angles (I've never boosted the car yet!!!), maybe still 700 too, no one knows cuz no one has even seen such step angles on the drive shafts. My gearbox, 600.

So 500whp or roughly 575bhp will be what I'll be driving next Spring, assuming nothing outside the engine blows up. I don't think anyone has reached that much yet on this forum, but I don't think I'll be driving with that much power. Someone I know who's driven 5k km (and lots of drag) on it yet is pretty sure the front end will lift up under 500whp. He's using the same tires I am with even less traction than I have. Anyway, I have a boost controller so I can decide to boost in increments (by RPM) which mimics a SC or so. Less prone to huge kicks in the back.

Some of you know the VR6 typically revs up to 7000rpm with a few modified parts. I could rev up to 8500!!! But the consensus seems to be anything past 8200 on these hydraulic lifters is non-sense. I'll stick with 7500 or 8000, just to get more power at the top, would look cool on a dyno sheet and then I de-tune for street driving. :)


Oh and guys, apparently ID01050x (formerly ID1000) injectors are the best, both for WRX and VR6. They even provide a better idle than my BOSCH EV14 550cc.

A lot of money again! But it has nothing to do with the 818 build itself. If I don't invest that money, then I pay quite some money to replace my existing parts with same parts and no change to engine reliability. I want to increase engine reliability, not necessarily power. On the dyno yes lolll, but on the road I don't know, I've not driven it yet. Reliability is important though.

For the WV guys around if you want to know what parts I have in mind, just ask.



500whp and 1050kg wet, that's Veyron territory.

[Frank818]

I thought building a car was the highest achievement possible.

I guess I was wrong.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kniVVLZ-eIk

[AZPete]

Awesome! Thanks Frank.

[Canadian818]

Hey Frank, I haven't been on the forums lately and just caught up on your thread. Man that car looks sick! Almost makes me want to go blue now. Sorry to hear about the engine needing a rebuild, I know the feeling, but fingers crossed you get to drive it a little after registration. Keep up the good work!

[Frank818]

I haven't been on the forums lately

Yeah, we noticed that. lolll You back, now? Cool.

No worries on the engine, I knew one day it'd happen and as said when you are on the dyno, you get to know EVERY little thing that is not optimal about the engine. The good news is the season is almost over, I'm actually happy I found that out now rather than in May!! But I do need to register in 2017, I'll get crazy if I can't.

Yeah I love the car, I stare at it often, there no angles I don't like, which is pretty rare on a "normal" car.



I start to think I will dump the door pulls, they are totally useless! It feels weird to close the door grabbing it at the front. It's a lot cooler and easier to put your hand on top of the door, middle or back, and pull it closed.

[Frank818]

I told you guys this project would never end. I told you Harley waiting for 1 month+ to get your VIN was a very short time and no need to stress out. :)

Anyone in QC wanting to build a kitcar should read this.


For the police stolen parts authentication I opened my case on Aug 9th. I've been told by the police lady it takes 3-4 weeks before I get a call from the inspector to take appointment. This is twice the longest time I've heard so far in QC.
After 4 weeks, last week, I called the police and left the msg to call me back to tell me where's my case, if it's lost or something. Never got a freakin call back. Thank you.
Today I went in person to the police station. They gave me the name and number of the one and only Sargent doing this kind of job. The wait is more like 3-4 months (read below) according to the guy I spoke with. After I get that appointment, if I pass, then I am authorised to go to inspection. Then I need to pass inspection and then I wait until I get my VIN. See that Harley? :)

I called the Sargent, left msg to call back. He called back this afternoon!!! Wow. And told me I've been misled (again), it's 1 to 12 months of wait and it's not him doing that, it's someone else. He gave me the guy's name and told me to call him back on Oct 2nd if I don't have a call before.

Thing is, they don't work on cases like mine cuz they are the lowest priority. When the guy is scratching his behind at work cuz he's done with all the criminal cases, then he works on cases like mine. Could be 1 month, could be 12 months (the guy I spoke with this afternoon has seen up to 8 months on a snowmobile).

Even if I get my appointment in Oct, there is almost no chance I can pass inspection and get my VIN before the winter. I also have 2 months to pass inspection after I get stamped for stolen parts. Longer and I have to start again the stolen parts process (another 1 to 12 months!). So I'll have to start all over next Spring and cross my fingers I will be stamped before Oct 2018. What a rip off!

But the worst part is what the Sargent told me if they find a stolen part! The only one that could be stolen is my gearbox. He said "your car gets IMMEDIATELY impounded and WE get the gearbox out, at YOUR costs, and send the car over to a special team investigating ALL parts one by one and THEN we ship the car back to you". What he didn't say is that the car will be broken, body panels broken, wrap all scratched, other parts broken... they don't care! They are vicious animals extracting the stolen parts as fast as possible, at my own cost.

Then I get the car back, will need to pay a lot to fix the broken parts, buy a new 15k gearbox WITH VIN and spend one year getting everything back together and 1 to 12 months waiting for the stolen parts stamp again. And then I still need to pass inspection. If I fail and need to fix things, more time, more efforts, more money, more hassles, etc... If my gearbox is stolen, this car would have no chance to be plated before 2019. And do you think I will love the car then after spending half of the money on the inspection process, representing more than any 818 I know?

THIS PROCESS IS INSANE!!!!!!

What are my solutions... I cannot buy an intermediate casing with serial number and VIN, the DMV already has my current serial. They won't match, they will ask me invoices, they will see I bought an "intermediate casing", they will ask for invoices about all the other parts (90% of the gearbox) and I won't have any cuz I'd re-use the current parts of the potentially stolen gearbox.

Only possibility is to buy right now a full G50 gearbox (long or short gearbox should not matter) with VIN (SUPER DUPER RARE!!!!!!), swap the intermediate casings so there won't be a part color mismatch and paint the entire casing or simply re-use all the best quality internals inside the new casing, and use that invoice for the stolen parts and DMV. I can make up a reason for full gearbox change at the DMV. And sell the 2nd gearbox to lower my investment.


If you build in QC, have serials and VINs on everything you can, with TRIPLE BULLETPROOF and nuclear warhead proof invoices and other proofs. If not, then DON'T BUILD!!
Also, do not live on Montreal's South Shore, it's probably the worst place in QC, the other places I've heard about give you an appointment within 2 weeks. And no, they don't want to transfer my case to a different district.

Everything is making my build complex, hard, disappointing which makes me very sad and feel unfair. :( I know I built something awesome, but the only reason I built it cannot be reached so far, and the car is fully done since Aug 5th. What a nightmare...

[Hindsight2.0]

Frank, I have an idea: Come in down to 'murica.

[Harley818]

Frank,
Ship it to BC. Register it in BC, drive it home.......cost a lot less.....take a lot less time.... still sunny out here...

[longislandwrx]

Frank,

Why are you so concerned your gearbox is stolen? And if so why are you posting it here which will obviously be admissible in court?

I will have to read your post and see where you sourced this thing from but it sounds like you are just stressing due to the Sergeants tough talking.

Like you said yourself, these guys have bigger fish to fry, they are going after car thieves and stolen parts rings on a daily basis.

I honestly don't think they are going to issue a warrant, come to your house, impound your car, strip it and hand you the bill and a pile of parts. When they could just ask for it back.

The good guys don't go through this process, and you are going through all the right steps line by line.

Once they see your other stack of receipts I doubt there will be an issue. Even worst case, and your gearbox is stolen (which again I highly doubt) wouldn't you think they'd want to work up the food chain to who sold it to you?

https://www.vertexauto.com/ offers rebuilt transmissions, and deal internationally, i'm sure they can shed some light on your issue, or send you a new transmission with a receipt to "launder" your trans if needed.




Either way I feel for you man, we are in permit hell with our house right now. Bureaucracy sucks dick.

[Frank818]

Frank,
Ship it to BC. Register it in BC, drive it home.......cost a lot less.....take a lot less time.... still sunny out here...

Can't do. If registered outside QC I have to pass inspection when I bring it back. What I'm not 100% sure is if I need to pass stolen parts, I could check. Do you need a residential address that is yours (mine) in order to plate in BC? Or I could use any address?

[Frank818]

Why are you so concerned your gearbox is stolen?

Because I have no proof it is not. I legally bought it but I don't know if the guy my guy got it from was legit. If the serial # has been tagged as stolen in the DMV's database and I have no way to find out, unless I have a VIN, which I can't find for this gearbox.


I honestly don't think they are going to issue a warrant, come to your house, impound your car, strip it and hand you the bill and a pile of parts. When they could just ask for it back.

No what I meant is that if I take an appointment with the inspector and while he looks at all my invoices, serial for the engine, etc., he will take the serial of the gearbox and scan his database to see it's been flagged as stolen. If yes, they impound the car right away and strip out the gearbox.



The good guys don't go through this process, and you are going through all the right steps line by line.

Yes but I have no proof the gearbox is not stolen. If I had bought a donor that would be different. But here I bought a gearbox on a shelf that came from a junkyard that doesn't exist anymore.



Once they see your other stack of receipts I doubt there will be an issue.

Won't change anything, they do scan all engine VINs/serials and gearbox VINs/serials. Any part with a VIN or serial they check. Same thing happened to the guy in QC I know registered his 818, they scanned the gearbox and engine.


Even worst case, and your gearbox is stolen (which again I highly doubt) wouldn't you think they'd want to work up the food chain to who sold it to you?

They might but they still out the box. I was talking with a friend tower a month ago and same nightmare happened to someone he knows who built a Harley-Davidson with different parts. They stripped his fork and cut the manifold in the process.


https://www.vertexauto.com/ offers rebuilt transmissions, and deal internationally, i'm sure they can shed some light on your issue, or send you a new transmission with a receipt to "launder" your trans if needed.

Tnx man I'll take a look.



Bureaucracy sucks dick.

Right on. Sorry about your house.

[mikeb75]

Frank what a major PITA. You have my sympathy.

Talk about a Mobius strip of bureaucracy. Especially galling since you purchased the transmission in good faith from your vendor. The morally correct action if it comes up on a stolen list would be to impound all the stock of the vendor. But unfortunately reality doesn't follow my (modest) proposals.

You've managed to persevere through everything else you've encountered on this build; I have faith you will make it through this also.

[Frank818]

Anyone can build any car with money and patience. Both of which I start to be very low on.

I got caught on my build due to not being smart enough about 100% of the parts, but then again most of the info I found about this process was either misleading or incomplete. If I had talked with the inspector before buying the G50, I would have bought a different one, with VIN. But how could I knew that when the info was misleading and I didn't know. This is all my fault cuz I was ignorant about this complex process and most of it, how it works when you have a stolen part (I don't know if mine is). Then you understand the consequences and risk.


HARLEY, I checked for importing a Canadian registered car into QC, they don't mention anything about the police stamp. But they also don't mention how it works if the owner is both the seller and buyer. They certainly do some checks to ensure the owner doesn't try to skip steps and find loop holes. Since I don't have an address outside QC, my best guess on this would be to sell to someone outside QC, in Canada, get him register under his name and I buy it back from him after. I need official invoice of the sale between the guy and me and some DMV papers from the other Province.
Before I do that, which is a lot of problems too, I need to be 100% sure I won't need the police stamp. That I can ask.
But then how do I work out the rest, selling car, getting it registered by someone else, buying it back, etc. Nothing in the process can fail cuz the car would be way out of my range.

[Harley818]

Can't do. If registered outside QC I have to pass inspection when I bring it back. What I'm not 100% sure is if I need to pass stolen parts, I could check. Do you need a residential address that is yours (mine) in order to plate in BC? Or I could use any address?

Yes you would need a BC address to plate the car.

hmm .... lets see.... 450+ hp......you could store it at my house..... just leave the keys.

[Harley818]

Anyone can build any car with money and patience. Both of which I start to be very low on.

I got caught on my build due to not being smart enough about 100% of the parts, but then again most of the info I found about this process was either misleading or incomplete. If I had talked with the inspector before buying the G50, I would have bought a different one, with VIN. But how could I knew that when the info was misleading and I didn't know. This is all my fault cuz I was ignorant about this complex process and most of it, how it works when you have a stolen part (I don't know if mine is). Then you understand the consequences and risk.


HARLEY, I checked for importing a Canadian registered car into QC, they don't mention anything about the police stamp. But they also don't mention how it works if the owner is both the seller and buyer. They certainly do some checks to ensure the owner doesn't try to skip steps and find loop holes. Since I don't have an address outside QC, my best guess on this would be to sell to someone outside QC, in Canada, get him register under his name and I buy it back from him after. I need official invoice of the sale between the guy and me and some DMV papers from the other Province.
Before I do that, which is a lot of problems too, I need to be 100% sure I won't need the police stamp. That I can ask.
But then how do I work out the rest, selling car, getting it registered by someone else, buying it back, etc. Nothing in the process can fail cuz the car would be way out of my range.


Frank, I think you would have to pay Sales tax on the complete value selling into BC, then QC sales tax going the other way.... not small amounts by the time you are done

[Frank818]

hmm .... lets see.... 450+ hp......you could store it at my house..... just leave the keys.

My car has no keys, one less thing to leave at your house.


Frank, I think you would have to pay Sales tax on the complete value selling into BC, then QC sales tax going the other way.... not small amounts by the time you are done

Oh certainly. And I was just thinking about that, if BC requires to see the car in order to plate it, it means I need to pay to ship it there and then pay again to ship it back. + the taxes along the way, no chance all this could be under 11k. Wereas if I buy a full G50 with VIN for say 15k and sell my current one 4k (will sell easily at that price), I'm off with 11k to prevent any issues with the cops.

BC's too far.
ON not good, need emission tests, would need to redesign totally my exhaust, use a different muffler, add a cat, tune the engine, etc. In the end it will cost a lot too and will definately take more time.

I think my quickest, safest and "cheapest" way is to buy another G50 and this time with a VIN, as sad as it looks. Only uncertainty is how long would it take me to find a full G50 with right specs and VIN...

[Frank818]

Ok it's too late.

A miracle happened, I just got off the phone with the inspector who will look at my parts! He just called. He told me he's available on the 19th at 3PM and it should take 30-60mins, he only wants to look at the major parts like engine and gearbox.

I had to think quickly. I have an opportunity to clear this out EARLIER than expected, still giving me the chance to register the car in 2017.
On the other hand, maybe next Tuesday is the last time I will see the car for a while, if the gearbox is stolen.

So I took the HUGE risk. I accepted the appointment on the 19th. If it's stolen and they break the car while removing the gearbox, well I'll spend years fixing this and installing a new gearbox. I've had so many issues during this build, why not adding a few more major ones if it gets there, eh....

[Frank818]

http://infinitybox.com/cars/factory-five-818-wiring-completed/

[AZPete]

Frank, that's a beautiful show by Infinity. Here's to good luck on the 19th. We're all pulling for you.

[aquillen]

Frank,

This might be the sign your luck is changing for the better. Surely there is a silver lining in your cloud somewhere. Lord knows you deserve one after all you've gone through.

[longislandwrx]

So I took the HUGE risk. I accepted the appointment on the 19th. If it's stolen and they break the car while removing the gearbox, well I'll spend years fixing this and installing a new gearbox. I've had so many issues during this build, why not adding a few more major ones if it gets there, eh....

No nuts no glory. Good luck dude.

[Speedy G]

Hey! Tomorrow is the day! The day you register that monster. Best of luck!

Speedy G

[Frank818]

I wish you were right Speedy, but I'm still far from there.

Tuesday afternoon is the police check. To make sure my gearbox was not reported stolen years before I legally bought it. Unfortunately enough, it's a check I cannot do without the police itself. :(

If I pass that check, then I'm off for mechanical inspection most probably before end of October. For which I have more chances to fail than the police check...

[AZPete]

Frank, don't offer any info unless asked. Then just enough to answer the question. Respectful, but careful.
My fingers are crossed.

[longislandwrx]

Frank, don't offer any info unless asked.

what pete said. short and sweet

[Frank818]

30mins.

Guy took pix of the car, seats, cluster and many parts. Pix of gearbox serial and engine serial as well as FFR's VIN on the frame.

Said he needs to scan database and see if and what he finds out on both serials. He said normally by this Friday night 11hPM I should get a call back saying "relax all is good" or "you're in deep crap, a police towing is on its way to impound your car"

In the end, I gotta go what I do best for the past almost 4 years : wait.

[svanlare]

Looking forward to hearing you got the "relax all is good" call

[mikeb75]

Fingers crossed for you Frank

[flynntuna]

I saw this and couldn't help but make a comparison...

[Frank818]

RELAX ALL IS GOOD!!!!!!

It passed the stolen parts test! The guy couldn't trace the gearbox to a car (VIN). I told him he couldn't cuz I couldn't and he searched at the same places I did, including at Porsche Canada. I thought they had a DB with serials matching to VINs at the police but they don't, at least not for such old parts. They search the normal way. Even my engine he couldn't trace if the serial was really matched with the VIN. But thank god I had PLENTY of pix I printed out for him so he could see it was the same as in the car. VW told him they can't trace an engine serial. So he had to let go!

Next steps?

Well I have the 4 stickers on the car proving I passed the stolen parts test, these stickers are required when I'll go at inspection and can be removed afterwards.
I am sending a form along with a letter and sending that to the DMV so they can issue a VIN and send it to the shop where I'll go for inspection. Upon reception they call me for rdv.

I'll certainly have a few things to fix after first inspection but everything is under MY control now, so I'm not worried. I will simply lose a couple of hours, days, weeks or months but nothing more and there is no reason the car can't be plated for next spring. I say 80% this fall and 20% next spring.

Today at 3h07PM when I receive the police call (while I was jogging, again), it was the best moment of my life so far... literally.

[Frank818]

No nuts no glory. Good luck dude.

I think I've proven so far I got big ones and yes the glory starts to shine now. More to come in a few months.

[Frank818]

I saw this and couldn't help but make a comparison...

Wow that pic is awesome! I'm keeping this!

[mikeb75]

Score & congrats. Another milestone down, and what a story your build has! Getting towards Iliad epicness.

[BN]

Congrats for that first step. 👍

[Hindsight]

Wow congrats Frank. You are very persistent! Glad you passed yet another hurdle.

[aquillen]

You gonna frame those stickers and put them on the garage wall later? Congrats - maybe the biggest hurdle is cleared. Glad for you man.

[Frank818]

Good idea I will keep the stickers somewhere, I almost killed myself to get them I can't trash them out!


Drove the car again in the parking lot today. Definitely since my dyno session the engine is extremely prime!! Super quick on the revs and I know how to tune it that way now.

However the click-click-click that I used to get all the time when I launch around the rear right wheel has increased frequency. Now it clicks at every wheel turn for about 20 to 40 yards. The clicks increase in frequency the more the wheel turns, so it definitely is related to something that turns connected to the wheel.
I think my shaft is not long enough on that side, it's really stretched out to almost the max if not the max, and with the evil angle I have there I believe it doesn't turn properly inside the CV. But after those 20-40 yards it stops clicking. That sound really worries me as I cannot find the root cause and I have tried many tests and fixes. Does that since my 1st run ever in summer 2016 and I have removed and re-installed the shaft since.

I need to show that to my mech before we start working on the engine, I don't want to look into it next spring and then wait 1-2months before I get a replacement part.


Oh yeah, there is A LOT of dust accumulating everywhere where it's not supposed to. A coat of dust on my gearbox and coats between the door and side sail. Also a lot of rocks inside the front end, over the battery, on the windshield surround, etc. I did not go over 20mph and my straight lines weren't more than 100-150 yards. I can't imagine how bad it is on the roads.
Do not drive this car on a dusty road! Find a way to block off the air from flowing under the door skin, over the side sail.

[Harley818]

Hey Frank, good news. Another step towards completion. Congrats and keep with it.....

[phil1734]

Does the clicking stop after 20-40 yards because you accelerate? Or does it go away even if you maintain constant speed?

I highly doubt this is your issue, but I once had a horrible click develop at full lock on left turns after swapping to my snow tires years ago. Never could pin-point the issue and I drove around all winter with a charged cell phone, warm blanket, and the expectation my wheel was going to make an unexpected stage-right exit at any time. By the time summer came around and I was changing my oil I discovered that the block-ier tread was grabbing an un-trimmed zip-tie and flicking it around. :p

And yes, unfortunately the nature of these cars (at least the S model) is that it is a giant vacuum for road debris and dust. Installing all the wheel well aluminum significantly cut down on the gravel ingestion for me, but even after 2 years and over 1000 miles, it still accumulates heavily in the engine bay. And hopefully road dust doesn't ruin your interior - I have to wipe down my dash with nearly every fill-up.

[Frank818]

Does the clicking stop after 20-40 yards because you accelerate? Or does it go away even if you maintain constant speed?

It stops whether I accel or maintain constant speed.
Does not always stop at the same time, sometimes it's just 2-3secs after a launch, sometimes it's up to 4-5sec (20-40yards). But that's the thing, it stops. If it were the CVs I don't understand how it could stop. I wish I could record a video of this but the engine sound will certainly cover the click sound over the mic. I'll try though.

Definitely not a zip-tie or something like that, I wish though! lolll I checked my spindles and they have no marks of the boot or boot clamp and the clicking sound is not a scratching sound, it's a clear crisp, sharp and ultra short click. Like when you hit a stick on something, not like when you use the stick to make a scratch on something.

It's not the axle angle either, cuz on the left side the angle is worse and the sound is on the right side. The only difference is the right side has reach almost full extension on the CVs, whereas the left side still got good play. That's why I lean towards that.


My interior got dirty after each track session without the body on. I expect a little less dirt now but the suede is pretty good quality, I've tested it. But yeah will require very very frequent vacuum sessions, both inside the cockpit and inside the front/rear bays. :( And door sills... So very unusual for me to clean those places at such a frequent frequency (probably once per drive!).

[flynntuna]

I wonder if it could be a heims joint Rod end that's going bad?

[Frank818]

I didn't think at all about those. But now that I do, the sound is not suspension related, it's wheel rotation related. There are no rod ends moving at every wheel rotation.

When I move the car by hand, I don't hear the sound. Or maybe I did hear one click but it's so tame and so rare it does when moving by hand that I can say there is no sound when I push the car. It sort of needs torque, which brings me down again to the torque being pushed through the left axle/CVs.

The sound of ball bearings hitting each other or snapping in and out their spider "bowl"...

[flynntuna]

Here's another look....

[Frank818]

Not possible. Every angle but the front (probably) looks really similar.
Now, which of the 2 have I built again?

[Frank818]

Actually it's so amazing I'll print those pix and stick them on my garage wall. Hopefully the image quality is sufficient for a letter size paper.

[Frank818]

That car is so fast OFF boost, I wonder how it is under boost...

In the meantime I was able to take a video of my clicking noise. We can actually hear it a lot better than I thought. Don't mind the video focus that's not the point.

What are your guesses?


http://youtu.be/03lRFautTNM

[Frank818]

OMG, crap! I just got a call from the inspection shop, ONE week after sending my request to get a VIN! It took just ONE week! That was quick!!! Well after months of all the other steps done prior to this last one...

My rdv is on Tuesday the 10th at 9ham, IF no rain.


As it is now, the car will NOT pass inspection, I have a coolant leak on the rad cap (it just started last week!) that I am unable to fix unless I flush coolant and replace the cap. The cap sits a few inches lower than the engine's head and VW expansion tank, so it will pour if I don't flush. I cannot lift the front end, the more I lift, the more the top of the rad goes higher than the cap, cuz the cap is on the tubing and not on the rad.

Besides I need to buy a 33psi cap to make sure it won't open at 21psi like it does now, which is the same psi (21) as the VW cap. Quickest I've found is buy from Summit on a quick delivery method and hope I bought the right cap style. But still need to flush coolant. Thank god Monday the 9th is a day off in Canada, but still! And it's supposed to rain for 2-3 days this w-e, making testing the car impossible. We've had 1-2 days of rain since Sept 9th and now it may change, oh well.

I'll try to think what to do about it today.

[Frank818]

Good timing longisland, although I think you just deleted your post.

I don't think inspection will run it for more than 5mins, I'd be SO surprised if they reach 15. The guy who passed with his 818 this year they didn't even start it.

I applied sealant around half of the cap and it worked. I let the engine warm up until thermostat was open for quite some time. In the short term it should work. I'll apply more sealant to make sure. This winter I get rid of the overflow and replace it with a straight tube, using only my VW expansion tank.

The thermostat can't be shut, it's mechanically activated, not sure I can do anything on the tubing as well, but I'll see if I can find a second solution as a failsafe.

[AZPete]

I will keep my fingers crossed until the 10th and I think there are lots of other guys here doing the same.

Yeah, that's it, I can't fix the front door with crossed fingers, Honey. I can only work in the garage.

[Frank818]

The myths of exhaust back pressure on both NA and Turbo engines revealed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zfLnOnnW2A

[Frank818]

Ever wondered at what speed your aero will work?
Ever wondered if you should add aero and how aggressive?
The guy, a serious brain, does use the WRX as an example.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abheF2qkenE

[Frank818]

Flat floor or not?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXYJpXKMp_E

[Frank818]

Now get the idea of how splitters and diffusers work.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXxkNF2L__8

[Frank818]

And then, a question that's been asked on the forum:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi5NgRyAqt4


The answer is no, but with a flat floor it's a lot more effective.

[Frank818]

What about strakes in your diffuser? Should you install them?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXni_LUgwc

[Frank818]

Jeff, I've got a video on how to tune sway bars, if you ever want to watch it.

[Hindsight]

Hey Frank, I appreciate the offer. I think that I have a pretty firm grasp on sway bar tuning, but I don't pretend to be a know-it-all so post it up and I'll have a look. I'm sure I'll learn something from it! Thank you!

[Frank818]

Not super scientific cuz it's only 6mins, but maybe you'll learn one thing, probably not more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxOBw78DXBQ

[Frank818]

I know a lot has been said here about bump steer on the 818 and that Jeff is a super hero on that, he won't learn a thing in this video as well but this is just to show you how very very complex that thing is and that it's virtually impossible to fully eliminate.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ilnd5wQEpg

[Frank818]

This morning was my LAST inspection on the list of registration steps in QC.


This little guy came out of his hideout to say hello, just before the truck would crush him.

751407514175142


This is at inspection:


75143

The guy even checked if the seatbelts buckled up properly. Both of em.




With the lady at the front desk we flipped over ALL my invoices and those that had importance to them they kept for photocopies. All the paper work from Transport Canada and import document from Customs (to prove I paid taxes), plus the document for the weight of the car and the police paper work.


Some more docs were filled up during inspection, and I received a new doc for the VIN being applied on the car. Yes the VIN is on!


I will receive another doc once the SAAQ engineer approves the inspection.


And then I have to tow the car again to the inspection shop just to apply a STICKER on the windshield, proving I passed full mechanical inspection. Until then I cannot get my plate.

The mechanic doing the inspection took many pix cuz the engineer asked him to. He sent them to the engineer. I don't know what he took exactly. Some of these may prevent the engineer from approving my car, I don't know.


For the mechanical inspection itself, he said he found NOTHING incorrect on my car! Although there is still a very slight chance the engineer will not approve, it is one hell of a pride to know the way I built this car has been certified by an approved SAAQ mechanic.




If I was able to do what I did on an 818 and pass inspection in QC, it means ANYONE can do ANYTHING on that car, anywhere else in the world. You guys can do it if you design properly and install parts meticulously.

[AZPete]

". . . pride to know the way I built this car has been certified by an approved SAAQ mechanic" - .
Frank, that says a lot. You've cleared more hurdles than anyone else, for sure. Your pride is well deserved!

[Frank818]

THIS BUILD IS OVER!


Post #1630 marks the end of the build phase of this project. Next posts will be optimisation, evolution and fixes phase.

Yes, I just got confirmation my car has PASSED, as is, all the countless road blocks to get my plate. Nothing was flagged during that process, which is impossible in a way but it happened!

I need to wait about 2 weeks before I can drive it, must receive paperwork by mail, then get my plate using that paperwork, then receive my car evaluation report which has started at the end of Sept and then call the insurance and drive!


I would like to thank everyone, including those with whom I only exchanged once. You've been all SO helpful and without you this wouldn't have work.
I made many friends (priceless) and learned so many things on this forum, it is a HUGE warehouse of info! I hope one day I could share my experience and knowledge better that what I could do for the past 4 years.


Pete, yes now, now I really start to see all that I have accomplished! I am totally stunned...



Some closing stats on this build:

- Started the build phase on May 1st 2014
- First go-kart on Aug 5th 2016
- First time car is complete on Aug 5th 2017
- Started the last 3 steps of registration/approval on Aug 9th
- Completed last step on Oct FRIDAY THE 13TH 2017 (yes, I will never see Fridays the 13th the same way anymore!)
- Total build time, including searching for solutions: 3283.5h
- Total elapsed time: 3.5 years
- Total work time: 148 weeks, average of 22.19h/work week time.

[q4stix]

Congratulations!!
I've been passively watching and it's great to see the result of all your hard work! Great job!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Congratulations Frank
When did I tell you that you were at the half point?
Bob

[AZPete]

BIG CONGRATS, Frank!! I've also learned a lot from your journey.

Bob, interesting point. Frank, I figured that your halfway point was January 2016, the 20th month. At that time you, were working on the clutch, axles, and listed 23 items to do before your first start. Interesting.

Now, open some bubbly.
Pete

[BN]

Félicitations now it's my turn ha!ha! Ha!

[Frank818]

Funny guys as always. :)

Half way point in hours work time was somewhere around end of summer 2016, a little bit more than 1 year ago, which proves I did put A LOT of work time on the car in just 1 year. I wanted so bad to drive it this summer of 17.
Half way point in elapsed time was probably spot on Pete's guess. Speaking of Pete, I told myself I'd watch Need For Speed again the day I'll get my approval. I just did, with lots of wine, what a great movie time to relax my brain. And watch that black GTM in the movie. :)

[Frank818]

Félicitations now it's my turn ha!ha! Ha!

You better, we've got some shows or other events to attend! :)

[flynntuna]

Tada A well deserved congrats, your story is the definition of persistence

[Scargo]

Almost a miracle, eh? Have fun driving it!

[Hindsight]

HUGE CONGRATS FRANK!!!! A job very well done. You were very persistent and were faced with more challenges than most any others (between the engine choice and the extremely challenging registration you went through), but you got it done in the end.

Looking forward to seeing pics and videos of your car on the street and at some shows. Can't wait to hear that turbo VR6 sing!

[Mitch Wright]

Congratulations Frank, nice work.

[Frank818]

Thank you guys, your words are very important to me.

I'm working now on bringing the car back to "normal", I have swapped my front 450lbs springs for 400s. The 450s where necessary to lift the front at 5.75" in order to lift my front side markers at 15" and pass inspection.

Hmm, I believe the 400s will be still too stiff (the 450s are too stiff for street here, the front end was bouncing), I might swap them to the back and get the rear 350s back to the front where they belong, we'll see. But now the car is 1" lower it looks better in the front wheel well. Will play with corner weights now.

I also swapped my front TS which are SAE-DOT approved (original ones) to a much cleaner and up to date look with LED upgrades. They are E9 marked and approved all across Europe, but I never was able to find if these European rules comply with North America, so I couldn't use them for inspection. In the end they are very bright and wise is the guy who can say which one between the SAE and E9 is brighter, if any!

753467534775348



http://youtu.be/dSCQ84WWcp0

[Frank818]

Someone asked me today "Hey Frank, did you get your plate?"


My answer was:


75536

[longislandwrx]

Oh yeah! congrats man. I hope you get to do some nice cruises before the weather turns sour.

Cheers brother, you've earned it.

75563

[STiPWRD]

A very proud moment, congrats!

[Frank818]

Oh yeah! congrats man. I hope you get to do some nice cruises before the weather turns sour.

Cheers brother, you've earned it.

75563

Long, can you give me that girl's phone number plz? No it's NOT 555-1212! I'd like her to be here next time I celebrate victory (once I get my insurance).
I believe this w-e will be the last time, the weather's supposed to suck later on. I've pushed as much as I could, now it's up to the evaluation report to be completed on time.



A very proud moment, congrats!

And tnx to you on the sliders, it worked out perfect and made me pass without issues!



Like I said, everyone on this forum helped me somehow, even people like Dwayne (I believe he never posted), who gave me the email of the DMV's engineer. Imagine without that how deep I'd be in right now. I hope he will read this.

[RM1SepEx]

Nice Frank, your build makes mine sound so damn easy!

[Frank818]

Got my insurance 5mins before the close on Friday. A few weeks ago a guy posted that it might be my luck changing. That was just before inspection. Everything went flawless since, he was right! And guess what, this w-e is very beautiful here, probably the last (and first!) time of the year I can drive the car. 5mins... 5 more mins and I would have to wait 2018. This is why every min of a 3.5years project is important.


I tried to adjust corner weights. Good god! How on earth can you get 50% with such screwed up numbers?

75707

You will tell me "raise the LF and lower the RF". No, I can't. LF is 0.25in from the TOP of the sleeve, cannot raise more. Also it's close to no travel on droop. RF is at the lowest already, any lower and the spring will get loose on droop. 200 pounds!!! What the hell do I have up front on the left side that would add up 200lbs? I was NOT in the car.

75708

Seriously, I have no idea. I haven't seen anyone with this issue and up front I've got nothing related to VW or Porsche. Besides my electronic computers are all on the right side under the dash.

How bad is it to drive on the streets with 40% cross?

Now as you can see in the rear it's RR that is 175 pounds heavier. Therefore if I raise RR, it will put weight on LF and vice-versa. I'm fighting myself all the time.

The good news is I'm almost 50-50 for L vs R.

75709



This is how thick paperwork I needed to register the car. hahahahahha I can hear Craig laughing!!! :)

75710

[AZPete]

If this is the last chance this year, get out and drive it! Be careful because, (1.) it's a powerful/short wheelbase car that can easily break traction so floor it only when perfectly straight, (2.) it's still untested, (3.) after all this work you don't want to damage it, (4.) the corner weights aren't perfect. If you don't drive like a maniac, I think you won't even feel the corner weigh condition.
GET OUT THERE!

[Frank818]

Don't worry Pete, I cannot floor it neither drive it over 3krpm, my pistons' rings are shut. lolll So I won't feel corner weight, but next spring once I fix the rings, I don't know what I'm gonna do with corner weights, what if it gets the car out of balance during spirited driving...

But you're right, I will need to test it, next spring.

[phil1734]

The rear weight bias on these cars is such that adjusting and balancing the rear may fix most of the problem on the front.

IIRC, registration in Michigan was something like 4 pages. Donor title, MSO, a single page inspection form, and a single page application for vehicle title.

[phil1734]

Also, make sure you have a fire extinguisher with you! Better safe than sorry!

[Frank818]

Interesting, I'll give that a try (adjusting rear bias).

I do have an extinguisher, although its expiry date is 2011, not sure how important that is. I plan on buying a new one this winter.

[Frank818]

Today was my 1st street driving day.

A total catastrophic failure. :(

The car is all broken.

- Engine can't run well. Gets super lean, super rich, at the same RPM and variables. Like idle, when engine gets hot it get very lean, I shutdown, restart right away and it's good, but after a few mins it gets lean again, I keep increasing my fuel values but it didn't made sense. Same time all across RPM, sometimes it got rich and had to back off, sometimes lean and add fuel. The fan kicking in wasn't the issue. Then after engine hot at normal temps every time the RPM was dropping at idle when I pressed the clutch for a stop, the engine was super close to shutdown with RPMs dropping in the 200-300. My ISV was working perfectly when we adjusted it on the dyno and when engine cold, no issues. I highly suspect my piston rings to be the cause. In the end there was no way I could control fuel, it was all over the place everywhere and way too dangerous to drive.

- Rear right CV was clicking while driving, most of the time, I'm sure my axle is too short. I was afraid the CV would break, too dangerous to drive.

- When hitting a depression like a manhole the rear left was making a TOK noise, like if the alu splash guard was whipping on the fiberglass or if the bottom of the side sail was hitting the ground (obviously not the case). Can't tell what that was. Fet dangerous to drive and hit bumps.

- Most of the time when I was hitting a bump or depression I felt weird behaviour on the s/w, front wheels and rear wheels. Like if the tires were WAY too soft, not enough air, and the car was waving, or at least that was the feeling. That's at around 20-30mph. Too dangerous to drive.

- I scrapped the front left splitter a few times when getting out of the driveway. loll It didn't scratch in a visible place but I guess I was too low.

- It smelt unburnt fuel, like when at a gas station, while driving. Maybe fuel through the rings and into the crankcase, or a leak on the fuel level sender again. Too dangerous to drive.

- Brake switch unscrewed itself. Fixed it temporarily.

- Clutch was clicking fast when pressing on it, again. But only when engine warm.


All these things but the clutch and CV I did not have on the 2 track sessions I had. Everything now is wrong.

What is the most disappointing is that I couldn't tell my parents yet what I've been doing of my life in the past 3.5 years. :( Perfect weather today, last time of 2017, rushed so hard to pass inspection and get my insurance, but car was a total mess. :(
I god damn hope my engine issues are piston rings related, otherwise I am out of clues.



Good news is that there is no problem driving this car at 10C, the warm air from behind comes inside the cabin and warms me up.

Other good news is that I know how to get 50% cross, or close to. For some weird reason I cannot yet understand, in order to remove weight from a corner I have to LOWER the suspension. I was doing the opposite. I gained 7% in just a few mins playing with the front and I still got space to work with. I'm pretty sure after playing with the back it'll hit the 50% mark.


I'm dismantling the car to get the engine in pieces for this winter.
Hopefully better luck next Spring.

[AZPete]

Oh crap.

[phil1734]

Better to find these things now than wait until next April. Now she can be ready for next summer.

[Frank818]

Yeah, the problem is I can't fix anything until next Spring cuz I can't test my fixes or re-test to better identify the issue. We'll see.

In the meantime here's the FIRST time ever the car put its tires on the streets. You can hear a scrapping noise but curiously my splitter is not scratched. Neither the splash guards, nor underneath the car (alu panels, side sails, fenders...). Weird, it happened 3 times.


http://youtu.be/rERWUeLYWfk

[svanlare]

oh man :( -- I was so hopeful your luck had changed and you would get some time to try things out.

As for the corner weights, I also wanted to let you know that our race-maita had way worse numbers than that (after the car hit a wall) and we were able to balance it out and get it running (and even put the fast lap down after the accident no less).

Hang in there, we are all looking forward to when you can celebrate.

[DMC7492]

That scraping sound when pulling out of the driveway is very similar to my front tires scraping the front fenders when doing the same maneuver. Also bumps at the bottom of country road hills where the bridges meet the asphalt.

[Kurk818]

Its more than likely your tire rubbing the inside of the fender. That is exactly the reason why i will be redoing the fenders to include a vertical flat spot like most late model cars for wheel travel.

Nice work btw, looks killer!

[Frank818]

I checked both front wheels and couldn't find any evidence of rubbing. Anyway the front is a little too low at the moment so that will help by raising it but I'm still surprised I couldn't find any evidence anywhere (splitter, frame, undercar alu panels, tires, tie-rods, LCAs, splash guards, yoga mat inside the fenders (TNX PETE!!!!!), fender louvers, fender lip). I was rolling maybe 2-3mph.
It didn't happen on big large bumps I hit at say 5-7mph but the wheels were all straight, I was not turning.

I'll keep an eye next Spring.


Tnx Kurk, and those are your side scoops! I managed to fix entirely the damage UPS did on the gel coat, if you remember the pic I sent ya. :)

[Hindsight]

Sorry it didn't go well Frank. I had a LOT of sorting to do on my car before it drove nicely. It took about 9 months to get it to that point, and of course, I'm forever fine tuning it.



- Most of the time when I was hitting a bump or depression I felt weird behaviour on the s/w, front wheels and rear wheels. Like if the tires were WAY too soft, not enough air, and the car was waving, or at least that was the feeling. That's at around 20-30mph. Too dangerous to drive.


I had this same exact thing. It was due to alignment. Mostly bump steer front and rear. You really need to buy a bump steer gauge and check it. If you decide to do it, let me know and I'll give you my procedure (I've now done it so many times, I have quite a nice process down).

This is the one I have: http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1710&prodid=7261&pagetitle=Precision+Digital+Bump+Steer+Gauge+with+ Billet+Plate

[Frank818]

Absolutely. What's sad is I didn't have the opportunity to fix anything in 2017, cuz of my blown rings. If I could have driven for real and test a few fixes, it would have been better for the long winter repairs/fixes. Oh well, I couldn't have everything I think the way it went with the whole inspection process I can't complain cuz all went SUPER well when came the time to get stuff approved. Let's put that behind me now.

I suspect rear bumpsteer, but god it didn't need a lot of compression to bump steer! That means having the lower lateral links parallel to the ground and each other may not be the target here. I think that's what happened to Harley.

I have a bad toe up front, I messed up the right front alignment, but I'm sure the rear needs something. My friend bought a huge machine, you know those that lift the car on 4 plates and is all digital with lasers? I'll try it out but I don't think it does bumpsteer. I'll start with good alignment and then see the behaviour.

Happy to know it's probably 99% alignment related. I prefer that than a bad solution, component or design. :)

[Hindsight]

I doubt your friend's rack has bump steer. Usually only racers check that and you need a separate tool.

My rear lateral links are were parallel but that still give me bump-out which is bad. Only way to really set it is with a bump gauge. And yes, it doesn't take much compression at all to really feel it. One of the things that freaked me out before fixing it was that every time I was on the gas and then lifted, I could feel the back end kick out JUST slightly. Not enough that I needed to counter-steer but enough to be extremely unsettling.

[Frank818]

Tnx Jeff, one of the best suspension/alignment guy on this forum. I'll test it out next Spring.

[Frank818]

Swapped my Altima no color start button for this OEM gloss red GTR button (direct swap, for once!!!). Flew straight from Japan!
Pretty cool with the red!

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[Mitch Wright]

Interior detail is impressive Frank, well done.

[Frank818]

Cool, starting to learn about corner weights.

Just swapping my 400/350 springs to 350/400 swapped the corner weights around! From well under 50 it flipped to over 50 but closer to 50. By trial and errors I found out what happens to each wheel, each side and each front/back weight when raising just one wheel. Then went off to google, found a site that told exactly the behaviour I'm having. Phew, that means my car is not some weird alien! lolll

If I had read this page before starting corner weighting, it would have saved me time. So for those who didn't learn much, read this:
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/understanding-corner-weights/

Basically,


If you raise the ride height at a given corner (put a turn in or add a round of wedge), the weight on that corner will increase, as will the weight on the diagonally opposite corner. The other two corners will lose weight.

This will NOT affect L/R and F/R weights.

For a road car, apparently you should be within 1% from 50% (corner weights), otherwise you could feel difference in behaviour on left turns vs right turns. So far I am at 51.5% WITHOUT driver (driver ADDs a few tenths to the corner weight).

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Ha, I see I gained 22lbs since my "official" weight for registration. Not sure why, I added maybe 1.5-1.7gal of fuel but that's it.

Corner weights, so my problem is I am limited by ground clearance up front and rear height. Up front I need a good clearance to avoid any kind of rubbing on bumps (tires, splitter, etc.). In rear, I need as low as possible to avoid too much angle on the axles (if you don't understand it's cuz you are not aware of my build, go back and read on the Porsche gearbox with angled axles) but I also need as high as possible to avoid the wider 265s from rubbing on the splash guards under compression. A real puzzle!

My goal is not to reach 50 anymore, that will be very difficult, maybe impossible, considering my above constraints. So now I try to reach 50.5%, which means with driver it will stay under 51%. Slashing another 1% will not be easy, I might require sacrifices like rubbing the front on some bumps. I cannot sacrifice the rear yet as I don't know what my axles are capable of.


I was googling how normal cars have their corner weights set at. All I could find was normal cars after they did their coil over upgrades and corner weighted the car. Worthless. I will try to corner weight my OEM 2005 Impreza as it came off the dealer to see what these guys set their normal cars at.



Tnx Mitch!!!

[alpine227]

You should check your wideband sensor you can check it in free air should read full lean, use a lighter unlit buton depressed on the sensor tip should read full rich. Since you are smelling fuel and showing lean could be a bad O2.

[Frank818]

use a lighter unlit buton depressed on the sensor tip should read full rich.

What you're saying is that lighters have very bad fuel efficiency? lolll


I did the test (smart one, tnx for pointing out). Numbers look perfect (hard to see on 3rd pic but it starts with "08.xxx" which is very very rich. I had to have the lighter in one hand in a bad location and phone on the other):

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However, the sensor is VERY slow to react. When I approached the lighter underneath, it took a few seconds (maybe 5) to reach 8AFR and I saw the numbers decreasing. Worst is the other way around, when I turned the lighter off it took maybe close to 8-10sec to reach 99.999 again and I saw the numbers increasing slowly. Not sure that behaviour is normal.

[alpine227]

It takes a few seconds I will pull mine and give it a go. The sensors are pretty fragile to impact.

[Frank818]

If it's normal to take a few secs, I hope it doesn't lag that much when it gauges what comes out of the engine. loll

[Frank818]

Like Mike I am going backwards to go fwd better in a distant future:

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Took me 12h to get there. 2 of which were just to think how and where to flush coolant from in order to minimize mess... lolll



You don't see it really on the pic but there's quite some oil inside my runners. And it smells oil pretty bad!!! I mean that oil smells good, but the intake shouldn't smell that much oil!

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And there is oil dripping down one of my sprout on the intake manifold. I admit the hole was a little too big I stuffed some sealant, but it's still leaking from the intake manifold. I also found a bit of oil at the bottom of my oil dip stick tube (on the block), plus a little too much from normal oil out of the crankcase ventilation hose. Something tells me I was having some kind of blow by, which makes sense, but I wonder if I have valve leakage as well. Doesn't matter anyway as ALL these parts will get replaced, leaks or no leaks.

[alpine227]

Do you have a leakdown tester? If not one can be made out of a compression tester for around $20.

[Frank818]

Yeah I do, but what do you want me to do with a leakdown tester on the Wideband?

[CdnCarNut]

If it's normal to take a few secs, I hope it doesn't lag that much when it gauges what comes out of the engine. loll

Lambda sensors are very quick to respond (<<0.5 sec) if there is exhaust gas flowing by them. The issue you see with this lighter test is that it takes time for the gas to travel through the labyrinth of small holes in the sensor cover. (Which are there to protect the ceramic element from water droplets. Water droplets on the hot ceramic = cracks = failed sensor.)

[Frank818]

Tnx CdnCarNut, I thought of something like that, it's not like if I was flowing and forcing gas through the sensor. Besides I am running open loop so the sensor does not correct fuel, which cannot explain why I had these issues on Oct 22nd.

It's then certainly related to the fact I am running 2 cyls with 30% pressure loss and 4 cyls with over 20%... I've read when it's over 30% that you should not drive the car. I understood why on Oct 22nd... lolll

[alpine227]

I was talking about the leak issues you were having leakdown test would tell you rings or valves.

[Frank818]

Yeah thought so. :)
I have some important issues on the rings, after the leakdown test. I know for sure at least one ring was tired for the past many years. Certainly died on that dyno in August (guy was pretty rude running it 3 times at 17AFR up to 4k with smoke) and some others got affected.
I wouldn't be surprised to have leaks around valve stuffs as well. I will remove the manifold this w-e if I have enough clearance, I'll see a bit better.

But I need to get the head off anyway and that will really tell what's next.

[Frank818]

Well well well... look who invited itself to the blown up engine party!

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3 of my 6 exhaust valves are leaking oil and not just a little. I don't think that's the only problem, I'm pretty sure the rings are bad too, but since I want this time to be the last time I remove the engine, I'm gonna change everything, sticking to the original plan.

I joined the Mike Club, the club for those who remove their nonworking engine shortly after its first installation in the 818. lolll

My other 3 valves are ok, although I have no idea if the white stuff on the stems is normal. Pretty carbonized inside anyway.

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I also think I need to port match my exhaust manifold, check out the carbon on the edges of most of the runners, you'll see better if you zoom on the picture.

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This freakin manifold weighs a good 45-50lbs with turbo on.


And for those who never saw a VR6 or are nostalgic, here are the cams.

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No sign of wear at all, that's good news, I run them since 2006!
This engine is not a SOHC, neither a DOHC. It's in between, tnx to VW's weird but spot on design of fitting a V engine into one bank.



Now we're talking!!! I have a lot more space in there! But I can't run like this. loll

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[svanlare]

Seems you only had to take out half the engine so far :)

Didn't know about the Mike club, count me as a member as well as I had to do the same for coolant issues last year just after I got to karting phase. My original plan was to treat the engine like a black box and just have it work since it worked in the donor. No luck as I ended up doing the timing belt, water pump and whatever else was on the "while I was there" list.

[mikeb75]

Mike club. ;) That's some dubious fame right there! At least you can keep your engine Frank.

Platinum Mike club membership requires you to leave engine parts on the highway :mad: :D

Even though it's a PITA for you, I'm enjoying the tear down.

[Frank818]

Nah I'm just a bronze member and so far what I get in return satisfies me in a way I don't think I'll pay to upgrade my membership! loll

[redfogo]

Are you sure you just don't need new valve steam seals on the the leaking valves?

[Frank818]

No I'm not. It's well possible the issue are only the valves, although I did notice an unusual amount of air leaking through the crankcase, but something else might explain that, I don't know. I still need to remove the head to check on internals before I know for sure.

However the engine is already at its max streetable power for reliability. If I keep the rings and pistons like this, one day I will need to change them. If I do it now, it'll cost me a few 1000s more, but the timing is absolutely perfect, during the winter, and one time only. Which means this Spring I start fresh with a new engine capable of supporting 800hp, which I'll stay far of anyway. Since I don't use the car much, the pistons and rings will last forever, no need to get the engine out again.

I will also get the crank polished, superfinished and balanced. Then again no need to remove the block after this winter, if I take care of the car properly throughout time.

[Frank818]

Ok I removed my axles and totally dismantled them. Up to the last smallest clip or bearing inside. Cleaned up all the grease (what a mess!!) and will re-assemble them.

Why I did that? My clicking noise on the rear right and also to prove myself this setup is actually working (or not). I took a bunch of AWESOME close-up pix (tnx to my AWESOME Google Pixel 2) and sent them to Tad Neal at DSS. The best axle guy in the world I tell ya, A1 customer service and he knows what he's doing. Everything on the axles and CVs is totally normal. Not even over worn for the small mileage I did. All marks are where they should be.

This means these CVs can take up the crazy angle I have.

The only thing I need to improve is the inner CV boots wear out WAY too fast (they are compressed due to the angle) and a lot of grainy rubber falls on the lateral links, diffuser and inside the CV boot. Although inside the boot, it stays on the shaft side and does not blend with grease. But I don't want to keep that as is.

2 solutions are possible, maybe 3 actually. Tad is looking into it.

As for my clicking noise... we don't know. I now suspect a wheel bearing. That's gonna be much harder to look into as I need the car to roll at a certain speed, more than what I can push, and it seems to need torque on the wheel to make the noise. I'll think about that one. Maybe going through the hassle of a changing a bearing for the 5th time and crossing fingers I won't do it for nothing.



Good news is now I can dismantle CVs and (hopefully) re-assemble them. loll Another thing to add to my list of new stuff I can do on a car.

[Frank818]

HAPPY TNXGIVING'S EVE to all US buds on this forum!

Fill up that gut with good beer!

[Frank818]

Well I think I found my wheel/axle clicking noise issue.

While I was bolting my wheels back on I mistakenly rotated my passenger's wheel, the side where I have that clicking noise. Guess what, it clicked, like 2-3 times per wheel turn for many turns I spinned. That never happened before when car is jacked or pushing the car.



So I played around with it and it was clearly audible. And then it stopped. I was pissed off. lolll Cuz I had the stub in the hub, which means I could not determine for sure if the problem was wheel bearing or the stub hitting on something, like inside the hub, the splines or whatever. Removing the stub, spinning the wheel and hearing the noise again would tell me it's wheel bearing. I tried everything throughout the day and the noise never came back. Oh well, good news is it's NOT CV, 100% convinced. Which means even though I have crazy axle angles, they take it no problem.



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Now I gotta decide if I replace again (4th or 5th time) the wheel bearing or if I wait this spring after swapping my CVs side-to-side and testing it (to make sure it's not the stub).
However hearing the sound really sounds like bearings... couldn't tell at first if CV bearing or wheel, but now that the CVs are off, well... ya know.

So far looks promising for this Spring, driving this car finally, damn it.

[Frank818]

This following part will interest Mr longislandwrx who showed interest the 1st time I posted pix of "sort of internal CV boots".

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They are my new inner CV boots. Called High Speed Aero boots. May have other names too.

The boot is not accordeon-shaped, but straight conical. Therefore even you fold the middle (where the shaft goes in) to the max the rubber just... folds. Instead of squeezing 2 accordeon folds together, touching and wearing out faster than any 100k miles car on the market within less than 100 miles.

The rubber is pretty thick too I don't see how these will wear out in a "too quick" manner.

[Frank818]

"Let's talk about engine, yo. Hit it, Pedro!"


Couple of weeks ago I was where Mike was months ago (and still am). That guy's always a step ahead of me...

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Not so good...

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The High Speed boots are designed for racing. They have 2 small protrusions on the tip of the boot which act as a pinhole when inserted onto the shaft. This is to relieve pressure when the grease gets real hot. Obviously if that happens on the street you either have a problem or are driving like crazy non-stop (and you have a problem anyway). These boots are not supposed to wear out.

77920


Yes, the towing guy broke my splitter. I was so mad I thought of killing him with my bare hands. But I restrained myself and killed him with a bazooka. You know when you spent 3300h building a car you cannot, simply just CANNOT accept any one breaking your car, nor even soiling it. I was also very mad at my friend mechanic when after just one week at his shop my front end and doors were more soiled than they ever got in 3.5 years.

Back on the splitter, fortunately it's only the resin, I can fix it. But for that I need to remove the splitter. The whole purpose of keeping it on was cuz I had no reason to remove anything at the front as I'm working only at the back and wanted to save me the HASSLE of removing this thing. Now I have to pay for my stupid stupidity, cuz not only I have to remove it, but I have to fix it in a way that it will never be as perfect as it was... in the end when you're building a car or going somewhere with it, never trust other people... on the other hand, I think I'll scrape that splitter many times next summer, cuz I need to learn how low it is. At least I'll be the one breaking it, not someone else!

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25.5yo crank! This thing weighs 46lbs! Shipped it to Bill Schimmel in PA for polishing and superfinishing. As you can see the bearings are worn out. These, along with rod's and thrust's, will be swapped for Calico coated ones. Much much better.

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Failing rings on still excellent OEM pistons. Off to retirement on them too. Will I increase displacement? There's no replacement for displacement, right? Pictures will determine that this winter.

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[Frank818]

While I was at the shop, I found this thing:

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And this is my new wall in my garage. I'm just missing my dyno charts later this summer.

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[Frank818]

While waiting for my engine parts I did some improvements.

3 of them would probably give you guys great ideas to solve the same issues.


There is an area in the front wheel well, behind the shock, where no alu covers the area which may cause dirt and rocks (and water maybe I don't know) to go through.
I fabed my own alu cover using scrap FFR alu.

Then there is that huge area over the wheel and inside for which a lot of rocks go through. FormaCar built a special alu part you can buy for $180 and fit it no problem. EXCEPT, when you have fender louvers. Which I have. I could have bought their part and modifiy it, ending up with unknown results and 180 bucks down. Or buy for $0 my left over FFR scrap alu sheets and fab my own, adjusting the end result to fit.
My design is different, I wanted to strenghten the hood at the same time, which it did. I believe my middle L-shape support can be removed for good but I need to test first.
There still is one area left open close to the windshield. Not sure it's an important area, I have to drive to test it. But I know what to do if I need to block it.

While I was there I also covered the fiberglass so no rocks would hit or break it. I used left over parts of the yoga matt I bought to cover entirely the fiberglass in the wheel well area (THANKS A DAMN LOT AZPETE!!!! :)). Silicon sealant glues PERFECT.

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And the last imporovement that may interest you is the area around the air filter which may well suck up hot and very hot air when car is stopped or rolling slowly. Tamra covered this with a different product and design but I think mine will work. Maybe not 100% but surely a great improvement. Yes I still need to make the hole for the 4" filter pipe but that's not a problem. That sheet is velcro fitted, which means removeable easily.

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If you want to reduce engine vibrations all across the power band, reduce wear, increase longevity and hp-torque (maybe 3 to 7hp-tq), Fluidmapr harmonic damper seems the way to go. I bought one for my VR6 and I've seen a guy's VR6 dyno on youtube, he gained 5whp and 7wtq, something like that. But I bought it solely to reduce vibrations and wear. This part exists for Imprezas.


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Now just for fun, a while back I was at a restaurant with a friend and a guy outside was rolling some weed. lolll Not legal yet in Canada but very soon! loll :)

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[Shawn818c]

I have a whole bunch of VR6 parts if you're ever in need. Block, head, connecting rods, intake, TB etc.

[Doug @ Forma]

I'm not certain that our liners would interfere with your louvers, but I'm not certain that they won't. I'd need some dimensions on where they're located to be sure. For future reference, it'd be good to have those dims if you have a chance.

[Frank818]

I'm not certain that our liners would interfere with your louvers, but I'm not certain that they won't. I'd need some dimensions on where they're located to be sure. For future reference, it'd be good to have those dims if you have a chance.

On your parts thread there was 1-2 measurements you provided and I figured the risk was too high for me. I think very little people have those louvers, therefore your parts are awesome for the vast majority cuz they fit well and work very well, it's been proven. I didn't want to alter that and make it potentially worse, hence not worth for me trying at this point.

The louvers can be fit in various places. I fitted mines there, but they could be a few inches anywhere around.
Oops, just realized I didn't take the measurement from the fender's furthest point near the windshield and down to the front of the louver. If you need that one let me know! Otherwise the below don't tell where they are fitted on the louvers, but with the suspension a-arm pictured in the background it gives a rough idea.

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[Frank818]

I have a whole bunch of VR6 parts if you're ever in need. Block, head, connecting rods, intake, TB etc.

I'm taking note, Shawn!

Are your parts OEM?
My only parts left as OEM are the block (without pan, pump and coolant pipe/housing), alternator and coilpack. loll
We never know when we might need OEM parts, though. A few of those are modified OEM parts, like the head which now features oversized valves and bigger ports.

[Doug @ Forma]

Thanks Frank, I think those will do. To your point, folks who have them can install them in a variety of locations. It might be best for us to provide some more information as to how far they extend under the fenders. That will give foilks the info they need to see if they'll work with their louver set up, or give them guidelines as to how to position their louvers to clear the liners. I'll add that to my (long) list of things to address. :-P

[Frank818]

I agree Doug, tnx.
Yes our to-do list is always very long on these builds. loll


For everyone's pleasure, this is a car that knows how to accelerate! The g-forces must be a lot of fun!!! :D
So sad an 818 will probably never do that (traction!!!!).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeyxLkVWaJ8

[flynntuna]

Frank, were are you ? We haven't heard from you in awhile. The forum is very quiet here with out you.��

[Frank818]

Good question!

I'm at home, sitting by the window, waiting for my engine parts to come in since Dec 20. In order not to starve to death, I have beer, wine, scotch, gin, rhum, and more to survive.

Ordered 12 parts on Dec 20 to rebuild my engine, one of which was cancelled recently (guy didn't work on the part for 3 months!) and I bought from another place, got it within a week. Out of the 11 parts left bought at one place, I only got 4 on Feb 14th. Still waiting on the other 7, like rods, ARP studs, coated bearings, double-coated pistons, head, etc... I have had something like 20 issues with that order since Dec. It's a nightmare to manage, actually it's harder and more stressful than building and registering my 818!

I missed a Car Show I was invinted at, on Apr 27-28-29 in Quebec City. Hopefully I won't miss other events this year.

I guess in the coming weeks I should get all those parts and rebuild the engine.

I did work on many small updates on the car this winter, the most important I posted pix already. Once I put everything back together I will post a few of the other improvements I did.
I wanted to work on a polycabonate/lexan rear window to prevent exhaust smell but I need Harley's opinion 1st on whether 1/4 or 5/16" thick should be used, as he seemed to say his was wobbling at high speed.

[redfogo]

Woo Frank is back! The man who brings life back to the community! Hope you get everything you need soon! I know the feeling all to well i needed an old engine to be machined a few years ago it took them 6months to bore and hone a block and shave down my crank shaft... keep us updated :)

[Frank818]

6 months??? Wow that sucks. On the other end I'm happy to see these things did not only happen to me, meaning it's not specific to me or my order. Helps to know that, but sucks to know it sucked for others too. lol

[Frank818]

FINALLY!!!

Got more parts, still missing big valve head and high flow billet alu water pump, but I have everything to START the rebuild and close the block. My vendor delivered me the pistons and rods in person Saturday at 4PM. He did a 2.5h drive for that and gave me $USD700 worth of parts as moral damages for all the nonsense delays.



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Ceramic dome, teflon skirts, 355.7 grams each balanced. Only 0.5 gram between lightest and heaviest, JE's are really good, although they cling-cling-cling on cold startup, I've heard. The wrist pins are superfinished, 122.5 grams. 0.1 gram tolerance, those are awesome.


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Rifle drilled rods (but my Calico coated bearings are not, darn), 636 grams each about.


The rod bolts are rare (and expensive) ARP 625+ which sustain even more tensile strength than common ARP 2000s. They have a high weight tolerance though, up to 2.3 grams between the lightest and heaviest. And they weigh about 27 grams. Was puzzling to balance the rods with those.


In the end I couldn't. You absolutely need a rod balancer or a SECURE way to support the rod ends while weighing. I tried but a slight angle movement and you're off. Couldn't get weights stable so I decided to weigh as a whole. I know it's not good but it's still better than OEM! No I cannot buy a rod balancer, I have to bring those parts Monday morning (tomorrow!) at the shop, I had only ONE day to do everything and it was a Sunday. I am 2.5 months behind schedule, which is killer in QC cuz warm weather doesn't last long.


The rods also have a high weight tolerance, up to +/- 6 grams! Which means 12 grams between lightest and heaviest. That is really bad!!! I could've bought rods with +/- 1 gram. I shaved down to 6.5 (+/- 3.25), didn't want to go further for unknown structural effects.



This engine will be overkill for the 818. 550-600hp is ridicule on this car, especially without traction control and small 265 tires (Adam you rock on 305s!). But I wanted something that will last forever, with low friction, high exhaust velocity/heat and best balancing as possible.



I don't think this car will be ready to be driven "normally" (i.e.: flooring it) before Sept 1st. Lost 75% of my summer and many possible events. :(

[Frank818]

854958549685497

[Frank818]

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Polished and balanced crank from Utah.



85501

Injector Dynamics (US made, right?) ID1050x running at 1260cc.

Looks like most of my parts are made in America! Trump would be so proud, exporting as much as possible and importing nothing.

[Frank818]

Tabarnak, finally got all my parts now.

This big head (+1mm valves, bigger bore, 8500rpm but don't think it's safe over 8200) is advertised as a 2-3week lead time. Took 27 weeks!!! And the guy uses abrasive paste to bore the runners so overall it's a less than 10h job! So pissed off but anyway.

882328823388234882358823688237

There is a little bit of pitting in 2 places but that's nothing, the gasket will completely cover that. Maybe the previous owner had a coolant leak and it rusted, apparently it's common on the 12V.

Just before I got the head, my vendor turned around and ordered a big head from Germany because the supplier from PA (Bill Schimmel) was unable to build his and was lying to my vendor as to when the head was ready (he was trying to buy time). He did build it in 1 day later on. I should receive the 2nd head this week. For free... my vendor (INA Engineering-Issam Abed) is GIVING me a 2nd head! That's worth like $1500 to $2000US.


This is the high flow water pump.

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My mech told me he should rebuild everything by end of Aug. Since I lost my slot this winter it's harder to fit me between other clients as he was booked from winter to late summer.
I pushed back my vacations 1 month, to end of Aug, so I can use all of them (for the 5th summer in a row) reassembling the car, tuning the engine and break-in it in. Hopefully I can drive it before winter.


Should I sell everything and buy one of those (yellow or red far back in garage)? Sorry for the zoom on the phone.

88238

Or maybe this:

88239

[Frank818]

Crap 3 months without looking at the forum, a record in 5 years. It seems the unread posts have reset at some point as many posts prior to Sept show as read but I've never read them so now I totally lost it. :( At least I was able to find Andrew818's thread and respond to his car accident.


Well after waiting and stressing out 7 months (2 months delay for parts and cuz of that, 5 more months delay from my mech cuz I lost my slot), my mech will FINALLY start rebuilding the engine on Monday 24th. About a week of work, then I get the car back at home, replug everything, design/install my new catch can solution, re-align wheels, fix a few things for which I need the engine installed and then ready for a first start. I should be able to start it in Oct, I should be able to drive it in the driveway in Oct but I don't know if I'll be able to drive it on the street in 2018. Depends if the fuel tuning goes quickly.

Lost a year, totally. Oh well.

In the meantime I got my FREE thick aluminum oil pan from INA Engineering. Solely for longitudinal VR6. Weighs 8lbs.

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[AZPete]

It's good to have you back, Frank! It hasn't been as much fun without you, so please don't leave again. :D
That's an amazing oil pan!!

[Canadian818]

That pan is sweet! Welcome back, I don’t frequent the forums very often anymore but I did notice your absence.

[Frank818]

That's super sweet guys. But hold on...

My mech called me this morning and told me the pistons PLUS rods are wrong. Yup, you heard that, I waited 5 months for him to tell me that. I told him to start the rebuild earlier in case something big would happen but back in May he said he was confident all would be ok and he didn't want to make another client wait 1-2 days in order to validate what he just validated now.

Now there is no chance this crap can run before May 2019.

Pistons are 88mm, no VR6 can take more than 84mm and that's stretchy aftermarket! Turbo VR6 maybe 82.5mm. I ordered OEM 81mm, that's 7mm!
Rods are too small on the crank diameter. They may fit R32 24 valves VR6 but I got a VR6 AAA first get 12 valves.

New set of rods will come in tomorrow, I will validate the fit on Friday morning.

As for the pistons, they are the most complicated part to get I've ever seen. Took a full 6 months in 2018. So I don't know how that will end up...

I don't deserve any of this crap, I don't understand why it all happened but something doesn't want me to run this car.

I hope RetroRacing reads this, when I told him I knew how he felt about his multiple engines.

[STiPWRD]

But look on the bright side, you can take the next 6 months to learn about engine building and ditch the mechanic. I didn't know I could do it until I tried it for myself. You're right, you don't deserve this crap, I certainly wouldn't put up with these sort of delays.

Another thought is to have an engine shop machine you the larger pistons based on the ones you have, a shop that is knowledgeable about the required finish, heat treatments, etc.

[AZPete]

Frank, I think STiPWRD makes a good point. I've just looked back at your long build thread and found that you've learned a lot - suspension, braking, e-brake, tranny, mods to frame and panels, CV joints, wiring, and lots more, plus welding. You've got smarts, persistence and endurance, as shown with the licensing maze you figured out. I'm confident that you could DIY your engine to save a bundle of time and money. Plus, it would be rewarding. I've just finished engine work and, like STiPWRD wrote, "I didn't know I could do it until I tried it myself."

[aquillen]

I guess you know if it were me, I'd go for doing the engine work myself too - at least anything I could learn/figure out - afford tool wise. Education and just more fun. Yah I think headaches are fun too.

[Sgt.Gator]

That really barfs!

[Frank818]

Yes I have been thinking of doing it myself for 1 year now. but the most important thing to me is to get this job done as QUICKLY as possible, which is not good when you want to learn how to build an engine. But I'll see what I can do. My only energy left at the moment is to reconnect coolant-wiring and then run the car. Maybe in a month I'll have enough energy to deep dive into the engine myself, who knows.

Funny part is I got the right set of rods the day after I contacted my vendor. Pistons, I decided to increase bore in order to get IN STOCK pistons instead of custom-wait-longer pistons. But they need coating at JE so they are there now and I have to wait. That's the longest part, the stupid coating. And once I get them, I need to bring them along with the block to a boring shop (not affiliated with The Boring Company) and bore to 82mm.

Then the rebuild, whoever will do it, will start for good.

[turbomacncheese]

This engine is definitely not one to get impatient with. Having done my own rebuild, I wish I could go back and budget a few more cases of beer for this one.

[Frank818]

1+ year after ordering my pistons I still didn’t get them!
You have no idea all the issues I went through, recently my vendor’s driver not picking up the part at his depot for 2 weeks in a row and then the pistons had skirts coating but no dome coating, sent back to JE, etc…

However on Dec 17th I got refunded by my 1st vendor., even though at first there has been an issue during the process (of course). I got lucky on that, who would refund 1 year later…
And then pior to that on Dec 3rd after discussing with a 5th vendor (some said they were prepping an invoice and I never got it) I ordered my 4th set of pistons for this year. 2 of them I never got, one was totally out of specs and the 4th one has JUST been shipped from JE to my 5th vendor. Exactly 3 weeks like the guy said.

I also ordered a set of ARP625+ which my 1st vendor couldn’t deliver and refunded as well. Overall it cost me $245 (US185) more with my 5th vendor than my 1st. That’s nothing!!! If I had known before I would have done this last March!


While I was waiting longer for the pistons, might as well add in some value. I paid an extra US122 to get upgraded H13 tool steel wrist pins. Thinnest possible walls for my application (.155) while keeping high strength. Less weight, that’s perfect to reach my goal of a frictionless and lighter (more optimal) engine. It cost me a year but anyway.

So unless CNC Motorsports in South Dakota runs into problems I should get the pistons at the start of new year, I'd says before the 11th. In such a case around beg of March I would start up the engine in my garage and evacuate the fumes through the garage door in the cold, allowing me to at least tune the fueling start up, idle and RPM blips.

Then I fix leaks (there will be!), reinstall the body and when the first driving day comes, I will be able to tune on the road and go for a 1500km break-in period. It won't be funny cuz I need to watch my computer constantly and adjust fueling and stuff until I get something safe.

And then on to the dyno before the summer to fully tune and power tune for my 500wtq goal.


And then having some “real” fun.


I would like to thank the entire forum, people are so awesome, so helpful, so kind, it’s like having a second family. I got many help, support and words of encouragements from people here, on the forum but also outside the forum from people I got to know on the forum. Really helped me keeping up with the baddest year I’ve ever had in my life. When everything that can do wrong did go wrong, it’s hard to come back.

[Frank818]

Now it’s time for Holidays, the season’s upon us!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTx-sdR6Yzk



The season's upon us, it's that time of year
Brandy and eggnog, there's plenty of cheer
There's lights on the trees and there's wreaths to be hung
There's mischief and mayhem and songs to be sung


There's bells and there's holly, the kids are gung-ho
True love finds a kiss beneath fresh mistletoe
Some families are messed up while others are fine
If you think yours is crazy, well you should see mine


My sisters are wack jobs, I wish I had none
Their husbands are losers and so are their sons
My nephew's a horrible wise little twit
He once gave me a nice gift wrapped box full of ****


He likes to pelt carolers with icy snowballs
I'd like to take him out back and deck more than the halls
With family like this I would have to confess
I'd be better off lonely, distraught and depressed


The season's upon us, it's that time of year
Brandy and eggnog, there's plenty of cheer
There's lights on the trees and there's wreaths to be hung
There's mischief and mayhem and songs to be sung
They call this Christmas where I'm from


My mom likes to cook, push our buttons and prod
My brother just brought home another big broad
The eyes rollin' whispers come love from the kitchen
I'd come home more often if they'd only quit *****in'


Dad on the other hand's a selfish old sod
Drinks whiskey alone with my miserable dog
Who won't run off fetch sure he couldn't care less
He defiled my teddy bear and left me the mess


The season's upon us, it's that time of year
Brandy and eggnog, there's plenty of cheer
There's lights on the trees and there's wreaths to be hung
There's mischief and mayhem and songs to be sung
They call this Christmas where I'm from


The table's set, we raise a toast
The Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost
I'm so glad this day only comes once a year
You can keep your opinions, your presents, your 'Happy New Year'
They call this Christmas where I'm from
They call this Christmas where I'm from

[Scargo]

I can't fathom what you are going through. Pistons being made in South Dakota? A year to get parts! Yes, I've waited a month for custom JE pins.
Sounds like the Twilight Zone! I would change vendors and try to go mainstream.
I can't believe that being in CA makes that much difference!

[Mitch Wright]

Frank Merry Christmas and have a GREAT New Year. You deserve it.

[Frank818]

I can't fathom what you are going through. Pistons being made in South Dakota? A year to get parts! Yes, I've waited a month for custom JE pins.
Sounds like the Twilight Zone! I would change vendors and try to go mainstream.
I can't believe that being in CA makes that much difference!

I ordered from a place in Canada a year ago. He has US providers for JE pistons. He tried 3 of them, they all failed miserably.
On Dec 3 2018 I ordered from CNC Motorsports (great people so far!!!) and the guy told me "3 weeks", even though JE themselves told me they were BOed on the pistons until Jan 4th (I wanted to order from them directly). It took exactly 3 weeks and JE has shipped, Friday, the pistons to CNC. A few more business days and CNC will ship them to me.
Pistons are made at JE in CA.


Frank Merry Christmas and have a GREAT New Year. You deserve it.

Tnx Mitch u 2! After all these efforts I at least deserve to drive that car, yes. It seems I don't get to decide whether I drive it or not! Hopefully 2019 will put an end to that curse.

[aquillen]

We're all hoping 2019 brings you a year of fun on the road - in your 818 of course. Wish we could help get those pistons to you. I'm sure I speak for anyone following your build.

[AZPete]

Frank, I certainly admire your persistence and determination! I've learned a lot from your long, long build thread - and enjoyed your writing ability and humor. I'm raising a glass to your well-earned success in 2019.

[FFRWRX]

A miller or Lincoln 115 can weld up to 1/8 with 0.24-0.30 with mixed gas, or up to 3/16 with flux core 0.30.

I realize the welding stuff has been discussed to death here, but this is what I've learned. The numbers given by the welder manufacturers are all wrong. I have a 120V Lincoln welder and did some testing. With it cranked up all the way I could get a little better than 1/16" penetration. For those that don't believe this, please do a test yourself. Start with some fairly thick steel stock and butt the edges together; nice a flat edges, no beveling. Do a weld pass, cut through it and see what you get. A lot of the welders say they can do a certain thickness with multiple passes. That's really dumb to say that. I can do 12" thick steel with multiple passes with a huge bevel on the pieces to start with!

Having said all that, I've welded engine mounts and other serious stuff with my welder using 3/16" stock. I just bevel it a lot and make multiple passes.

Rick

[Frank818]

I realize the welding stuff has been discussed to death here, but this is what I've learned. The numbers given by the welder manufacturers are all wrong. I have a 120V Lincoln welder and did some testing. With it cranked up all the way I could get a little better than 1/16" penetration. For those that don't believe this, please do a test yourself. Start with some fairly thick steel stock and butt the edges together; nice a flat edges, no beveling. Do a weld pass, cut through it and see what you get. A lot of the welders say they can do a certain thickness with multiple passes. That's really dumb to say that. I can do 12" thick steel with multiple passes with a huge bevel on the pieces to start with!

Having said all that, I've welded engine mounts and other serious stuff with my welder using 3/16" stock. I just bevel it a lot and make multiple passes.

True, I believe the numbers don't take everything into account or are based on some assumptions that did not apply 100% for me as well.
The guy who welded engine mounts and seats mounts for me for Registration did use beveling on some cases, with multi-passes, in order to get something more solid.

[Frank818]

God I miss my Corrado... :(
Listen to that sound @ 0:12 for about 30sec, just listen!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG4z4EAWrYA

[Frank818]

I GOT THEM!!!!!!!!!! Sort of!


13 months after my 1st order and 11 months delay I finally got my pistons! Those are the real deal, right specs with nice ARP 625+ bolts.

100283100284100285100286



However there is an error in the order!! Of course, 11 months delay is too easy, that's too smooth. One missing part, I am missing 1 wrist pin. I don't think they will be installed before Jan 18th, but I need them today in order to balance the pistons and get the block picked up with pistons tomorrow.


Let's hope they are very weight consistant and assume the one CNC will ship me back will have the same weight, not less. More is not a prob I can shave it off. I need the pistons to bore the block and the cyl in which they will fall (or "which they will fall in"?) will be determined by their balancing.


For instance if I cannot get same weight on all 6, then the 2 heaviest or lightest pistons will be fitted in opposed cylinders (1 vs 6, say, according to my crank).


This is why I need the missing pin... sucks! However pins tend to be very consistant so crossing fingers. Risk is small that the 6th pin would weigh less than the other 5.


Other than that CNC Motorsports in SD does 2-day shipping across the border (that is a first) and they've done a WONDERFUL job on this order.



But still, it had to go not smoothly after all the issues I had in the past 13 months... this tells me I will have problems in the upcoming months during the rebuild.


Anyway now it's time to bring the block to the machinist and get it bored to 82mm. Couple of days later I should get it back and within 1-2 weeks the rebuild should restart. A lot of "should", but like I said there are no certainties in this thing until the car drives and is tuned properly. So still A LOT of work ahead but the most complicated is done: getting hands on the pistons (minus 1 pin), who would think that would be complicated...

[Frank818]

BAD NEWS!

Ok now it's obvious, there is a curse on my build...

I called the guy to take appointment to bore my block... HE JUST SOLD HIS SHOP! He was prepping the machines to get them out the shop as I was calling. I mean what?

He suggested me a rare place around, I called my friend who rebuilds my engine and he said don't go there! It's the worst possible place, many people had problems. And then I was about to cry, literally, I was in pieces, completely devasted... he heard and he said "Bring me the pistons, I will ask an old friend who used to bore blocks to restart his machine and do the job, I will beg him."

So maybe... that will work. But I mean it's impossible all those issues for the past year. I still don't believe it.

[lsfourwheeler]

And I thought I had engine rebuild issues...wishing you the best of luck getting the car's drivetrain back together!

[Sgt.Gator]

Are you related to Retro? You seem to have the same luck DNA.

[aquillen]

Rooting for you to keep at it. You've already shown the patience of a saint. Keep the faith.

[Frank818]

And I thought I had engine rebuild issues...wishing you the best of luck getting the car's drivetrain back together!

Out of curiosity, what issues you got?



Are you related to Retro? You seem to have the same luck DNA.

I think we are related... our cars have a very similar blue color. And we keep having issues on top of each other and can't move fwd. I feel connected to him, yes, and hopefully we'll get an update on his new engine soon too.



Rooting for you to keep at it. You've already shown the patience of a saint. Keep the faith.

Thanks Art!



My engine block will get bored by my mech's friend, he agreed on exception to do it. He's retired, got his personal little shop with a few CNC machines he's using for his... 15 cars!
My missing wrist pin is being taken care of by CNC Motorports and Trend and hopefully by the end of the week it'd get shipped.
Slowly, but moving.

[Frank818]

Ok now it's true, there are real progress going on!
- Wirst pin on its way, will get it tomorrow
- Engine block at the machinist, working on it, no ETA (I'm used to no ETA anyway)


My Trend Performance H13 wrist pins are not only a lot stronger than basics JE pins but they are over 10 grams lighter! That's a significant amount of weight shaved off where it matters. Not at low RPMs but at higher yes.

For those who don't know, this engine is for street driving and very occasional w-e race alone or with a friend.
However I did everything I could to achieve the following goals:



All internal parts are as frictionless as possible. Crank, crank bearings, rod bearings, piston skirts and pins (except I didn't go with the super expensive diamond-liked coated pins which are useful when drag racing or on some crazy diesel high pressure engines)
The minimal amount of engine vibrations. Fluidampr crank damper which adjusts to every RPM, frictionless parts, balanced parts like rods, pins and pistons
Combustion chamber heat control. Thermal crown ceramic coating on pistons allows a tremendous amount of heat dissipation, something like 200C less underneath the piston, which means that heat will be pushed out of the manifold, hopefully helping the turbo to scroll a tad faster and less lag and should allow for a few degrees more of timing due to the reduction of potential knocking


This should allow the engine to run very smoothly and reduce wear over time, with the added HPs although the HP is not why I did this.


I don't think I will hit 500whp with my current turbo. I have a GT3582R but its limitation is it has a 0.63 A/R on the turbine. On this engine it will full boost 30psi at 3000rpm but should start to fade out at 5500rpm.
My goal is not 500whp, it is 500wtq! And that should allow it. Traction is a different story...


Besides, around here you can't hardly exploit properly high RPMs on the street, so you're better off targetting for some serious torque in the low and mid-range even if you lose on top end. Big american V8s are great for that!
Time will tell if I will go with 0.82 A/R which boosts 30psi at 3500rpm and keep it up to 7000-7500.

EDIT: Running 7.6:1CR. Quite low.


Last night I dreamt I had guessed my fuel map spot on for my new ID1050x injectors and that everything was running perfectly on the 1st startup. Yeah right... lolll

[Frank818]

I need your opinion guys.
I think people like polls so I created one.

I've been debating this with myself for the past YEAR and couldn't decide, so I figured you might provide some arguments and opinions helping me decide.


I'm trying to decide whether I should do my 1st startup on my rebuilt engine with or without my new injectors. Here are the PROs and CONs I can think of, this will allow you to understand why I can't decide:


Startup with previous BOSCH EV14 550cc
PROs
- I have these injectors since 2011, I have set a nice fuel map and I know their configuration and how they react to variables
- With these injectors I am not running too lean nor too rich anywhere in the map (before my engine mods!!)
- Should allow an easy startup since the base map has been proven
- Should allow getting the car on the road quickly to burn my 1500km break-in period SAFELY without playing all the time with fuel map or stalling the engine or what not

CONs
- Since my pistons are overbored, head has oversized valves and CR has dropped from 8.6:1 to 7.6:1, I'm expecting some fuel adjustments to do but I do not know to what extent
- Will require removing the injectors and swapping to ID1050x after the break-in period; since I won't want to wait for the fuel to evaporate from the rail, I know it'll make a fuel mess while disconnecting the feed and pulling out the injectors, like it did in Nov 2017 when I had to remove the engine, many weeks after the last time the engine ran
- Will need to start all over the fuel map once the new injectors are in, which means the work I'd have done on the 550cc map would be thrown out the window
- Cannot drive the car safely nor on the dyno until I set a base map on the ID1050x, so after the break-in period I'll have to wait a certain amount of time before I can enjoy
- No one knows what is the above "amount of time" required



Startup with new ID1050x 1050cc
PROs
- No need to swap injectors after break-in period
- I can really drive the car and go on the dyno immediately after break-in period
- Will work on target state fuel map all the time, not on 2 fuel maps (one temporary for 550cc and one target state for 1050cc)
- I have guessed a basic map already which I believe should allow me to fire up the engine and idle it ok as well as drive it without stalling the engine


CONs
- May require many crankings until it fires up, may stall right after first few startups, may damage something (?? not sure if that can happen?)
- Will require a hell lot of multitasking and concentration, under sunlight on the computer screen so I see nothing, once I drive it for pre-break-in period cuz I'll have to constantly adjust fuel map on the road, as well as listening for the car like rear bumpsteer, noises, driveshafts issues, CV joints popping off or wearing out quickly (remember my shafts are angled as hell), etc. All this to make the car run safely for the break-in period
- The above will require more time until I can start the break-in period

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I need your opinion guys.
I think people like polls so I created one.

Startup with previous BOSCH EV14 550cc


Startup with new ID1050x 1050cc


Go with what you know works. There are so many other thing on the car that need to be sorted out. Making multiple changes at the same time often doesn't work out.

Why are you changing injectors (6 cyl, 550cc, turbo, 90%dc, Gas) is good for 471 crank hp?

I don't understand your fuel mess comment. Relieve the pressure first, a few shop rags, no big deal.
Bob

[Frank818]

Go with what you know works. There are so many other thing on the car that need to be sorted out. Making multiple changes at the same time often doesn't work out.

Yes that's why I asked, it's one more risk to add, but if done well it will save time overall at the end so I can enjoy the car the whole season (after a whole season lost which I'm very frustrated about).



Why are you changing injectors (6 cyl, 550cc, turbo, 90%dc, Gas) is good for 471 crank hp?

Should not support the amount of power I'm targeting now, which is 500 or close to, depending on my turbine. The newer ones are also apparently smoother on idle and transients, which is important for me.



I don't understand your fuel mess comment. Relieve the pressure first, a few shop rags, no big deal.
Bob

Of course I can work something out, I had a mess last time would try to do better this time but I want to avoid another mess. Starting with new injectors I would not need to play with hardware changes. I fire up and I tune software, that's all. Using old injectors I'd fire up, tune software, swap hardware, re-tune software. But like you said, it's more steps but less risky.

[aquillen]

Go with what you know is really the best advice. But, look at me, I started that JDM motor for the first time last week on the new, unproven carbon fiber intake, completely rebuilt wiring - almost scratch built you could say. So I'm not a good example of going with what is a known. Reading your pro's and con's, it seems to me I'd probably go with the new ones. Sometimes I have a hard time making a choice so I make a chart and assign values from 1 to 10 on each pro and con. Add them up and it tells me what to do.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Should not support the amount of power I'm targeting now, which is 500 or close to, depending on my turbine. The newer ones are also apparently smoother on idle and transients, which is important for me.

Frank.
First, I have to say I have never tune an engine. I have tuned many speed and position control equipment.
If you want to tune for fine idle, I don't think you want huge injectors. On the big injectors a small change in PWM causes a large change in the amount of fuel. Better to use an injector that is just big enough for the application. That is what OEMs do.
Bob

[Frank818]

Sometimes I have a hard time making a choice so I make a chart and assign values from 1 to 10 on each pro and con. Add them up and it tells me what to do.

That is a good idea. Will do.

I wish I could remove the poll but I can't find the option! Oh well, it's gonna stick there until April...




First, I have to say I have never tune an engine. I have tuned many speed and position control equipment.

Come again? You did everything, Bob, you know everything (90% of the time lol). With your massive experience you've never played with a stand alone ECU or tuning ignition and fuel map from scratch? I'm stunned.



If you want to tune for fine idle, I don't think you want huge injectors. On the big injectors a small change in PWM causes a large change in the amount of fuel. Better to use an injector that is just big enough for the application. That is what OEMs do.

The ID1050x are a different technology. They are designed to optimize PW and smooth throttle inputs. The VR6 is hard to tune on transients (tip in, tip out) and sometimes require 50% fuel increase for 50-100ms, I am expecting the 1050x to make this easier. Also ID fully characterize their injectors and provide the data to tuners. Like the slope & offset vs pressure, which is important to dial in your ECU for every battery voltage change in order to keep constant characteristics. With the EV14s and Dekas I had previously, I could never be sure I got the real data, it seemed like priviledged information or there always was something missing or requiring a guess. I was not the only one with that problem. The EV14s had good data provided but it wasn't perfect, apparently ID provides accurate data easy to use.

In a nutshell, if the injectors' characteristics are not precisely dialed in the ECU, some variables may affect the injectors' PW in situations where an automated compensation should have taken care of the change. When this is not right, it messes up fuel while it shouldn't. Something was not right with my EV14s I could see on the ECU logs. But that's not the only reason why I got ID1050x anyway.

These days newer injectors are much better than older technology, the 1050x have been tested to have a better idle than my EV14s, there is a comparison of the 2 somewhere. Bigger doesn't mean you have to do a compromise on idle quality anymore.

I do want to test those injectors and if I am not happy (didn't see anyone yet not happy) I will either revert back to EV14s and max them out or get different injectors 20% more powerful than EV14s.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Come again? You did everything, Bob, you know everything (90% of the time lol). With your massive experience you've never played with a stand alone ECU or tuning ignition and fuel map from scratch? I'm stunned.

You forget. My main job was tuning ELECTRIC Cars, trucks, and motorcycles since 1994.
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/lightning-strikes-twice/

[q4stix]

As much as I try to push what I can do all at the same time, I'd also suggest sticking with at least the injectors you know. Whether you're doing MAF or speed density, it rules out one big variable which will make your basic tuning a lot easier. Speed density with the same injectors will help you nail the VE tables quickly which I'm sure you already know.

I'm doing the same on my WRX with bigger injectors and a new turbo, and with the Coupe build sticking with the 'old' engine tuning while also doing the AWD and then putting in the flat plane crank and new heads and cams.

Just my 2 cents of useless thoughts :)

[Frank818]

You forget. My main job was tuning ELECTRIC Cars, trucks, and motorcycles since 1994.
http://lightningmotorcycle.com/lightning-strikes-twice/

I never forgot about that blue/white fastest electric bike in the world, Bob. :) Just thought since you know so much about cars that you also had done a lot of fine ECU tuning. And I see you are making a cheaper version of that 39k world record bike?




As much as I try to push what I can do all at the same time, I'd also suggest sticking with at least the injectors you know. Whether you're doing MAF or speed density, it rules out one big variable which will make your basic tuning a lot easier. Speed density with the same injectors will help you nail the VE tables quickly which I'm sure you already know.

I'm actually using MAP, DTA ECU does not support MAF sensors, only supports MAP or TPS+MAP tables.

I'm calculating the values of each PRO and CON to see what comes up. If the gap is significant then so be it. If close, might stay on the safe side.


I would not be so much on new grounds here, though. When I put in the turbo in 2006 everything was new, which is the worst situation. Then I changed injectors in 2011, even though only the injectors changed then, it was like everything changed cuz I didn't know those new injectors (EV14s) and had to re-map everything. Which is why I'm trying to determine in what way this would be different now, I've been through that situation twice in the past. :)


However it's true that the more parts I know the better.

[Frank818]

Thank you guys!

I made it through. You made me found one more variable I didn't think about, or maybe modify one of the variable I had on my EV14s.

I thought I knew the EV14s pretty good, but it turns out I don't know them that much! Because of the injector dead times. That compensation table (against voltage) is important to setup right in the DTA ECU. Since BOSCH does not publicise this table or one that can be easily worked with, I could only find information from 3rd parties and nothing tells me the data is right and for the same part number injector. I always questioned that. The ECU software has a tool to test injector dead time by switching 4 stroke to 2 stroke, but when the engine is running you cannot change the injector voltage, so it's virtually impossible to set up outside a bench. Obviously if my dead time is wrong at x volt but right at y volt, then it will mess fuel map when voltage changes, even 0.1 volt can make a difference if the numbers are too off from reality.

Injector Dynamics is a smaller company and they make those injectors for the enthousiast tuner like me. They provide their own dead time table for every injector. I can't go wrong with that.


Therefore I know I won't need to fight against dead time with these injectors. I only need to find the PW required for cranking and idling and for the rest it will be the same job as tuning with EV14s. Might be easier in best case with ID1050x if my EV14 dead times were too far off.


I'm going in with the new injectors and I am very confident about the decision.


Thanks! :)

[q4stix]

Sounds like good logic to me. Since my assumption about the old injectors being fully scaled/tuned/etc. wasn't right, going with ones that provide the values right away is the way to go. Good luck, we're rooting for you!

[AZPete]

Frank, I've enjoyed your build thread for years. Your journey has been bumpy, curvy, frustrating, confusing, and longer than you expected, but it has also been a learning experience for you, and some of us. When I look back 44 pages ago I am very impressed at how much you've learned. Now, I have to study your posts carefully just to understand them because you are flying above my level. I hope you'll take a moment to appreciate how far you have come.

[Ajzride]

Frank....

I've read all 44 pages of your thread today, it's taken me almost 7 hours because there is nothing here that could be skimmed over. This is one the most interesting, heartbreaking, and thrilling car builds I've ever been privy to encounter. Your persistence and will is unbelievable. I've been through tough build before (nothing compared to yours), and I can tell you one day you will treasure the ability to tell this story. You will never have a boring road trip again because you will always have a story to tell.

Keep you chin up and keep kicking the ball, when it is all done you will have one of the coolest cars anyone has ever built, and it will have all been done your way, by you.

Good luck.

[Frank818]

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[Frank818]

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[Frank818]

Sounds like good logic to me. Since my assumption about the old injectors being fully scaled/tuned/etc. wasn't right, going with ones that provide the values right away is the way to go. Good luck, we're rooting for you!


Frank, I've enjoyed your build thread for years. Your journey has been bumpy, curvy, frustrating, confusing, and longer than you expected, but it has also been a learning experience for you, and some of us. When I look back 44 pages ago I am very impressed at how much you've learned. Now, I have to study your posts carefully just to understand them because you are flying above my level. I hope you'll take a moment to appreciate how far you have come.


Frank....

I've read all 44 pages of your thread today, it's taken me almost 7 hours because there is nothing here that could be skimmed over. This is one the most interesting, heartbreaking, and thrilling car builds I've ever been privy to encounter. Your persistence and will is unbelievable. I've been through tough build before (nothing compared to yours), and I can tell you one day you will treasure the ability to tell this story. You will never have a boring road trip again because you will always have a story to tell.

Keep you chin up and keep kicking the ball, when it is all done you will have one of the coolest cars anyone has ever built, and it will have all been done your way, by you.

Good luck.


I love you guys.

Slowly getting there, I have so many stuff non-818 accumulated it takes more time than working on the car even though I take days off to rebuild.

104902


Once it's done I will have a surprise to post, some info you rarely find when you are looking for it. Since all parts were removed individually, I am able to answer the question I've been asking myself for decades. At the end, though.

[Frank818]

Did you guys know SACHS was making condoms?

104903

Oh wait... those are grease pouches. Will work even better! lolll

[AZPete]

Did you guys know SACHS was making condoms?

104903

Oh wait... those are grease pouches. Will work even better! lolll

THAT'S the Frank818 we have been missing! Welcome back, hombre.