Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread [Archive] - Page 2

Frank818

05-21-2014, 07:02 PM

Some progress this week. But some potentially missing parts too, the upper arms' ball joints, which I don't see on my FFR POL and my Canadian Completion POL... I have asked Joe about that.

I did the front FW. Stupid thing took me 1.5 days, say about 12h. I took 2 days off this week to work on the car at my friend's shop. Spent a lot of time looking for bolts and nuts too, it would be good if in the manual they would list the part # to use (not just for bolts, but for all parts). Sometimes they don't.

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I did a mistake, thought the pedal box mount bracket used M10 bolts, but it uses M8s. I torqued them at 33lbs, should have been 15. The pedal mount bracket kinked a little and squeezed when I torqued it, which caused some panel fitment issues. I would need to drill holes through the panel to un-torque the bolts. I won't, I'll leave them that way.

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When you drill through the 2006 LCAs, plz don't use a hand drill... it will take A LOT of time for nothing. This is what PART of the hole will do:

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Instead, drill a bit the hole, to mark it well, and then use a press drill:

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And the result within a few mins only:

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Ok I have a question. When installing the front upper arms (the triangle piece with a ball joint), the 4 nuts you have to use at the top, which ones are they? 2 of the below don't seem to thread in, they lock, and one works perfect. But the one that works is different than in the picture in the manual and there are only 4 of them, which is what I need, but if I need them elsewhere, then I'll be missing 4! This is why I would want the part #s listed in the manual, it would be so much easier. BTW, one bag has no identification on it. The nuts that work are in the middle.

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STiPWRD

05-22-2014, 08:07 AM

At the beginning of each section in the manual, they list the hardware and tools needed. To install the front upper control arms, you need 1/2-20 x 1.75 flange head bolts and 1/2-20 locknuts. So it makes sense that the bolts in the middle bag work.

Frank818

05-22-2014, 08:19 AM

I think I understand better how to read the manual, now. I should have read 1/2-20 head bolts and 1/2-20 locknuts. Not just "some locknuts" and find those that work.

Besides M12 fits as it seemed to be the same diameter and 1.75 is the thread pitch I think, which is the same as the bolts. Since I don't understand what 1/2-20 means, I guess what I need to do is read about the conventions first. This will help me read the manual correctly.

As for the ball joints, they were missing in both kits and not on the POL of either kit as well. So I'll be getting them FedEx shortly, tnx to FFR again for the super quick turnaround.

STiPWRD

05-22-2014, 08:42 AM

1/2-20 means a 1/2" diameter thread and 20 threads per inch

Frank818

05-22-2014, 08:59 AM

Yes that's what google told me. Well not google, but it redirected me to a site which gave the info.

It's the Unified Thread standard, if I read correctly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Thread_Standard
As opposed to ISO Metric Screw Thread standard, which is like M12 x 1.75, meaning 12mm thread diameter with 1.75mm pitch per thread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_metric_screw_thread

FFR uses both, depending on the requirements.

Frank818

05-31-2014, 10:14 AM

Saturday work on the car.

Result:
No progress at all!

Consequence:
Today is a day of great depression.
Today is the day my dream, as beautiful as it was, blew up (for a while, and that was expected at some point, now is the point).
Today is the day I understood what a kit car really is: a huge load of problems.

Today I tried 8 things. 8 of them failed, all 8 due to fitting issues.

I know these 8 issues (summarized into 5) have been solved by other people, if you recognize yourself in some of them, could you plz let me know your solution or point me out to the post or date you fixed it on your thread?
In the meantime I'll start searching around as well.

1- How did you fix the inner front lower aluminum control arm bushing bolt misalignment of both sides? All 4 of them are misaligned.
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Answer: How about post 694 of RM1SpeEx's thread? http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10649-RM1Sepex-Build-Thread&p=155705&viewfull=1#post155705

2- The bolt on the inner big bushing of the LCA, driver's side, me too touches the front FW, badly. I had to push on the alu panel to make the arm fit in place. I guess I'll have to drill a hole and let it go through the FW a little bit. What have you guys done?

Answer: Cutting the thread portion past the bolt to clear the panel?

3- How is the VCP (Wayne Presley) rear trailing arm installed when the sleeve is too long to fit in the chassis?
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Answer: I got an uncut set. I believe they should have been cut. I have to cut 7mm of the inside washer to gain additional tire clearance. My shop doesn't have the machinery to cut that type of washer, like the ones on the rear lateral links, so I guess I'll have some fun or try to find a shop specialized in such cutting.

4- Can anyone give me the specs of the front bushing bolt on the front LCA and all 4 big bushing tabs bolts of the front LCA? I can't find these bolts in my bags, as other OEM bolts I cannot find as well. Somehow many got lost. :(

5- How are you installing some ebay aftermarket rear trailing arms (all 4 of them) when the conical metal bushings are too wide (due to the fact they replace OEM washers but FFR built the chassis to not use the OEM washers)? I have tried grinding the metal things like someone did, but it does not help, as the cone still sits on the internal sleeve. This picture shows the non-conical bushings of the second set (forward set) of arms, but the problem is the same, they are too wide.
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Answer: Post 46 of Jaime's thread. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13827-Jaime-s-Western-New-York-Build&p=154011&viewfull=1#post154011
I didn't grind the right side of the washers, that's why. Precision job is hard to get on these things without the proper machine.

And for the fun of it and trying to smile somehow, I took these pix when I was at the shop this morning:
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RM1SepEx

06-01-2014, 09:09 AM

Frank

the control arms have rubber bushings, it is over a foot between mounts, slight mis align on the front cross bolt means quite a bit at the other end with the aluminum, rubber bushing

insert the bolt through the front lower, pull the arm forward until the inner, lowest bolt drops in and tighten to hold it steady

modify the outside bushings as per my thread

I have those same rear transverse links, I used a milling machine to get them to the correct width, remove material from both sides

on the right rear lower bolt that hits the aluminum panel, 2 choices,cut off some threads, like I did or mount the panel on the other side (like I wish I did), others did that after me

Expect to clean up widths of bushings all over the place, I use a belt sand wheel on my bench grinder for the simple tubing stuff. Ground, hardened spacer require better equipment

The bolts that you can't find came from the donor... no nuts for the rear bushing ones, they went into the unibody

ACE is my friend as is McMaster Carr

FFR doesn't quite catch everything, the hardware kit might be 98%

All of the answers are in the threads, sorry it appeared to me that you had found the answers

rubber bushings get tweaked and twisted, you would do the same thing with the stock trailing arms.. when you have spherical bearings they make up for any slight misalignment. It doesn't make much change to the pivotpoints and geometry.

I think you will find that the front lower ball joint location is very symetrical if you twist a bit to use the FFR inner lower rear bolt holes and do your adjstments on the outer holes... I struggeled on this area too!

Frank818

06-01-2014, 09:41 AM

Tnx Dan.

Yes the bolts are from the donor and I lost them. I will try ACE and McMaster, hoping they know Subaru cuz I don't know if these bolts are M16, M12 or anything else.

I never thought it would be ok to pull the arm, put some force on it and torque it there, but if you say that's fine, then ok I'll try that, I believe that will work as far as I have seen.

I wish I had mounted the panel on the other side, thought this would have been fixed on my chassis but hey I'll cut it, I start to get the hang of cutting things. loll

I will approach building the kit differently, now, as aligning things will be the challenge, overall, I guess. You know what I mean with your FB body panels, unfortunately.

Rasmus

06-01-2014, 09:44 AM

1- How did you fix the inner front lower aluminum control arm bushing bolt misalignment of both sides? All 4 of them are misaligned.
All four were off on mine. Installed the Front Bushing Bolt first. Not even finger tight. Levered, by hand, the Rear of the Control Arm until the bolt holes lined up. Dropped a bolt in both holes. Esentially made use of the complacence of the OEM front bushing.

2- The bolt on the inner big bushing of the LCA, driver's side, me too touches the front FW, badly. I had to push on the alu panel to make the arm fit in place. I guess I'll have to drill a hole and let it go through the FW a little bit.
I havent' fixed that part yet. Mine still hits the firewall. I need to uninstall it so I can cut a portion of the bolt off, so it won't hit the firewall.

3- How is the VCP (Wayne Presley) rear trailing arm installed when the sleeve is too long to fit in the chassis?
Even my OEM trailing arm didn't fit in the tabs on the chassis.
http://i.imgur.com/xQjlQNn.jpg?1
I used a prybar to lever on the outside tab until I could get the bushing sleeve in there.

4- Can anyone give me the specs of the front bushing bolt on the front LCA and all 4 big bushing tabs bolts of the front LCA? I can't find these bolts in my bags, as other OEM bolts I cannot find as well. Somehow many got lost.
http://i.imgur.com/prOHwCu.jpg
Front one is M12-1.25 with an effective grip length of 85mm. Measured 94mm to the end of the cone. Has a "9F" on the head.

http://i.imgur.com/ZOD3NV3.jpg
Rears are M14-1.50 x 43mm. 52mm to end of cone. And it's looking like I need to get a longer bolt for my inside.

5- How are you installing some ebay aftermarket rear trailing arms (all 4 of them) when the conical metal bushings are too wide (due to the fact they replace OEM washers but FFR built the chassis to not use the OEM washers)? I have tried grinding the metal things like someone did, but it does not help, as the cone still sits on the internal sleeve. This picture shows the non-conical bushings of the second set (forward set) of arms, but the problem is the same, they are too wide.
I assembled my own but you probably knew that.

RM1SepEx

06-01-2014, 10:45 AM

Frank,

This is a weldment with a good chassis jig, however there has to be some fudge factor in almost everything, there is even in the factory unibody!

You need to mount, fit adjust repeat, over and over... :o

I've made my own frame and jig... I can assure you it is worse than the FFR stuff!

get the non adj stuff as close as you can and the other stuff is so adj you can get yourself in trouble... as far as the body... 1/32 of an inch off at one end of an 8 foot panel it is so far off it is amazing.

My body panel fitment issues are partially due to storing them flat over the winter...

Bob_n_Cincy

06-01-2014, 11:51 AM

Frank,
I enlarged the hole in the steel so m14 bolts would fit.
See the misalignment in my photo below.
Chassis #21 & #22
You can also see where a cut a little bit of the gusset to clear the large rear washer.
Bob
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Frank818

06-01-2014, 05:37 PM

My body panel fitment issues are partially due to storing them flat over the winter...

Speaking of this, I stored mine on plastic bubble and that brown wrap paper FFR provided. The panels sit on this and don't touch the ground. However I have a few panels for which I couldn't do that, so tried to put wood blocks underneath to offer some support. I believe I won't be touching the body panel until next winter, so that better be good, I hope so.

Frank818

06-01-2014, 05:40 PM

Tnx for the pic Bob, really looks like everyone went into this. Either many did not mention much about it, or I overshot most of people's posts about it.

I will see what I can do next Saturday. I have to fit something, I only got the front FW done so far. loll

Metal, I will try a few things next w-e and if I have Qs or don't succeed, I'll send you the pix, in case you may see something I don't.

Frank818

06-01-2014, 05:44 PM

Rasmus, tnx for that and also for the bolts, I'll check around what I can find.

Frank818

06-07-2014, 04:54 PM

Ok updates. After looking closely at the tension required to fit all 4 big tabs bolts, I didn't need to drill anything! The stress on the front bushing when pulling the arm to fit the rear 4 bolts is not enough to do any harm. Phew I'm happy for that one. I forgot to put some anti-seize/rust grease on these 4 bolts, doh! loll Too bad, the car will probably never see rain anyway.

The ball joints are in. Boy oh boy these were freakin hard to screw! I stop at the last thread, not sure if I can go any further in.

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Frank818

06-07-2014, 04:58 PM

F1 GP is in this w-e, took a walk around this Thursday.

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Speedy G

06-09-2014, 12:40 PM

It looks like you're making progress. Congrats! When do you think you'll start to look at the drivetrain?

Frank818

06-09-2014, 05:35 PM

I am making progress (and tnx to the hundreds inputs I get here), but not much progress for me, I was hoping by this time to be on 4 wheels with a full steering. loll But that's cuz I thought I had all the parts (some "ghost" parts took a while to show up) and that all was lego building. loll Stupid me.

Judging by the "speed" I run right now, I don't think I'll be able to try the drivetrain until late July, might be during my vacations (I will spend all my time on the car).

Frank818

06-24-2014, 09:36 AM

Not many pix this week, I forgot to take some. But my 4 corners suspension are installed. I am now attacking the pedal box issues.

One thing I did take on camera is the front lower shock mount, I had to grind some of the welds, cuz the bolt's flange was sitting on it and not flat on the bracket.

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Frank818

06-24-2014, 05:22 PM

Couple of notes for future builders:

- When installing the axle stubs in the front (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-X-Prepared&p=153581&viewfull=1#post153581), try to be careful if you paint them. There is a section that will rubs on the outer edge of the inside of the spindle and will make your hub very hard to turn. The paint will eventually come off once you drive, but still. And it doesn't require much paint to rub, even a tinny coat does.

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- About those 4 ebay lateral links, I had to grind the conical washers on the middle section in order to get clearance in the brackets. But on the forward lateral links, you must not grind the conical washers, as these go on the spindle. They have a slightly bigger diameter so they WON'T fit on the chassis bracket. I did that mistake. So you have to grind the round washers.

- When installing the rear spindles in place, if you want to make things easier, don't try to fit the trailing arm or adjust camber/toe without the 4 lateral links. If you install say the rear ones but not the forwards, you will have a hard time getting the right toe (by eye) and all your other links will be mis-adjusted to compensate. Don't look at the camber/toe adjustment until all arms are installed.

I am sorry I miss some pictures, I was so focused installing everything yesterday I forget to take them.

Frank818

06-28-2014, 12:31 PM

That is odd, when installing the clutch cylinder, the cap presses on the cross bar. I have to slightly pull it away in order to remove the cap. Has anyone got that problem too?

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These are the 2 clutch cylinder spacers. I don't know what's going there, but there is no way the bolts are going to fit in the holes, the ones from the spacers are way too wide. Has anyone got that problem too?

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Good news is the cylinder presses well on the 2 small stems (silver), so I filled all around with caulk (done that after all my pix).

This is the installation of my brake and clutch cyls.

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My steering rack (minus the column yet). The rack fitted bolt-on and as far as I could see, I will have no issues having the 2 boots the same length, none should be crushed much more than the other.

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Frank818

06-28-2014, 12:35 PM

My suspension installed.

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Frank818

06-28-2014, 12:42 PM

My pedal box installed. Surprisingly, it fits nice!!! I had to enlarge one hole and drill the 2 FFR holes and that was it!!
I did use some longer bolts on the cylinder, like most of the people and I also changed the smaller 1/4-20 hex bolts at the top for M8s, which fit much better in the holes. Then tightening the right bolt at the right moment for the right amount of torque and playing around and all fitted well.

One thing you should NOT do is what I did on the pin that goes through the brake pedal hole we drilled out. I installed it from the left side and put the retaining clip on the right side. Bad bad idea, as the pin sits so high when I try to push it out it is blocked by the grey metal of the pedal box and the white plastic that you have to press to get the pin out is inaccessible. Would have been much better from the other side but it's too late. If I ever get to remove it, I'll swear for months and sweat for months, but I prefer to wait for that time (that may never happen) rather than doing it now.

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AZPete

06-28-2014, 11:07 PM

Frank, I think you will want to flip your front upper control arms. The shorter arm should be towards the rear - see page 77 of manual revision 1C.

Frank818

06-29-2014, 05:50 AM

Frank, I think you will want to flip your front upper control arms. The shorter arm should be towards the rear - see page 77 of manual revision 1C.

Jesus!! They were on the correct side when I test fitted them and left them unbolted for a week or 2 on the car. WTH happened here. It's super clear in the manual and I could see pix as well, I don't know what went wrong. Tnx a lot for seeing that!!

Frank818

07-01-2014, 05:06 PM

I think I finished the front components. Steering, column, pedal box (minus the STUPID cable accel pedal), brakes, suspension.

The steering feeling is AWESOME! Up in the air, no wheels, the feeling is not too hard, not too easy, for that configuration. And once I do little movements on the s/w I see the discs moving, which means I probably made it with that weld of the quill.

I swapped my right side UCA which had the long arm facing the back of the car (super big tnx to Pete, I never realized that!). Having it installed correctly makes a huge difference on the line up of the ball joint wrt the shocks. The shocks are forward from the ball joints, which is what it should be for steering control and probably suspension-wise too.

You can notice me too the steering column is slightly angled to the left of the car. I have no idea why it's made that way, but the difference is minimal so that you don't even notice when you are behind the wheel. Heck, some people have a shorter arm than the other and don't notice the wheels that are straight. :) I'll leave that way.

You can also notice I have put some washers on those long bolts. Without washers, I was ending up short of threads. Also, I kept the right side a little higher, which helped tame that angled installation by playing with the larger holes in the column plate.

Another thing you can notice, I tighten up more the ball joints in the UCAs. It's so close to be seated, I left them like that. I used a huge pipe wrench with a 4-5 feet long tube and it was still quite hard. It damaged the ball joints as you can see.

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Now, the cable accelerator installation. lolll What a CRAP ****!!!! I will post on my next post. I need to find someone who did the installation, as something's really really wrong with that.

RM1SepEx

07-01-2014, 08:14 PM

what did you use to screw in your ball joints, a pipe wrench? Check my thread for the pedal, just line up the cable hole and bolt the pedal to the firewall. If you use their bracket it is all floppy and the pedal is too low, hits the floor

Frank818

07-02-2014, 05:56 AM

I used a big pipe wrench extended by a 4-5ft long steel pipe. If these ball joints ever get loose, I will pay everyone my one year salary.

metros

07-02-2014, 07:00 AM

The ball joints go easier if you use some grease on the threads, tighten them down and then loosen them to clean the grease off/apply locktite. They're so tight because of the paint.

Erik W. Treves

07-02-2014, 07:05 AM

if you are going to leave that ball joint that way, you need to tack weld it a couple times in my opinion. There is plenty of documentation on the other forum of the ball joints becoming loose. I freeze my ball joints for a day and heat the control arm before install and they have all bottomed out.

Frank818

07-02-2014, 07:42 AM

Wow Erik, I never thought they could loosen up. Tnx for probably saving me a year salary given to all of you. :) Then I'll do 1-2 more turns and seat them in. Tack welding isn't a bad idea either.

wleehendrick

07-02-2014, 10:22 AM

Funny that people are having issues with the ball joints. I followed the manual... put mine in a vice and used the UCA as a lever and had no trouble completely seating them. I have the original angled mounts, so maybe the new flat ones are toleranced tighter?

metros

07-02-2014, 11:00 AM

I did the same and needed to use a 2 foot pipe to provide the necessary leverage to get the ballpoint on. That's with using grease on the threads initially. The paint/powder on the balljoint is what causes it to be so tight.

RM1SepEx

07-02-2014, 12:52 PM

longislandwrx

07-02-2014, 01:13 PM

same here, spun in fully, no issues, I also have the angled arm set

+1 on this... must be the 24" pythons.

Frank818

07-02-2014, 02:14 PM

Well I am happy, after what Dan explained to me, the solution I put in place is a 10mins install. I was expecting to lose hours, cutting, welding, drilling, etc., but no. 2 easy holes in the FW and I am up to something else.

I fixed the pedal directly on the FW, without FFR's bracket. The curvature of the pedal bracket (OEM, not FFR) allows to clear just the clutch cylinder support. The pedal is centered to my taste, high enough and almost flush with the other 2 pedals. It has pretty much the same distance between it and the brake than the brake and the clutch. I will anyway put on a reversed L-shaped aftermarket gas pedal so it will bring even closer. There is PLENTY of distance to the floor when floored. And the pedal travel is more than needed, it's about 3in travel and I know I need something like 2-2.25in. I have twice the travel like that than with FFR's bracket.

I just need to make it stronger in place, cuz if I let the springs go back, it wobbles on the rubber stopper, the pedal vibrates a bit and it sounds hollow a bit (alu panels). But I have a lot of ideas to make it stronger, I may even tack weld the top U-shape section of the pedal bracket to the top tube frame and some of the side bracket to the vertical tube frame. Who knows, but that is going to be easy.

The cable hole will be slightly offset compared to FFR's, but that doesn't change anything.

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After my short discussion with Dan, I think now, what a few people told me, is printed in my head. This is a kit car, you can do whatever you want the way you want it to be. And what's in the manual (or not!), doesn't mean it's "the" way to do it or doesn't mean there aren't mistakes.

RM1SepEx

07-02-2014, 02:31 PM

I wish mine looked that good! I tried to use their bracket, it wobbled, the cable didn't fit (not enough free cable) and the pedal hit the floor

I modified my pedal to shorten it cut/weld etc and still wasn't happy

The I discussed with Wayne/Erik, mounted directly, had to recut and reweld pedal what a PITA

Wait until you hang the body and doors Frank! I'm enjoying a cold one... I think I have the doors figured out!

AZPete

07-02-2014, 07:31 PM

Frank, I stumbled across the solution to your clutch reservoir hitting the frame. See SixStar build thread, post #33.

metros

07-02-2014, 07:32 PM

Looks pretty good Frank. I may end up following suit.

Frank818

07-02-2014, 08:03 PM

Frank, I stumbled across the solution to your clutch reservoir hitting the frame. See SixStar build thread, post #33.

And Pete does it again. :) That is exactly what I was searching for the other day, but never thought of looking for the word "resi" or "reservoir". Oh well, his solution is the same as what I've been told: buy a WRX reservoir. Which I did minutes before you posted this, Pete. :) And for once, that is a part that is cheap!

Looks pretty good Frank. I may end up following suit.

If you like the way it fits, look no further, bolt it and do something easy to make the installation stiffer. Plenty of solutions for that.
If I ever find the pedal is slightly too further away (towards the front) compared with the other 2, I can easily add something on the plastic pedal and on top of that I will install my pedal cover, so again easy solutions. I never thought it'd end up that way for the cable pedal installation. There are some good news during a build, sometimes. :)

Frank818

07-12-2014, 05:51 PM

Finally succeeded to drill out that damn snapped off rotor bolt from the hat, so I replaced it with a BBS bolt we find around the cups.

And guess what, like all the others I have the same over hanging pads in the rear. My mech finds it's quite enough, it is a little more on the right side. I will mail Wilwood until they get it fixed.

I also found out that the bracket-to-back plate bolts are too close to the rotor. So close that with heat expansion who knows what may happen. So I use Wilwood's gold washers (2) on each bolt, between the bolt and back plate, in order to not change the caliper location. The washers are a little too big and rub on the caliper so they bend. I have to use a punch to push the washers away from the caliper as much as possible.

The grey bracket-to-caliper bolts ended up using 2 washers instead of the 3 Wilwood mentions in the manual.

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Time to send my pix to Wilwood and complain. I hope you guys will do the same.

Frank818

07-15-2014, 07:52 AM

For those with Wilwood's 12/12.19 setup and in need for Flexlines without using the FFR adapters, 508 Stroker's build gave the parts to buy:

4 x -3AN to 3/8-24 male to female fittings
4 x -3AN to 1/8in pipe straight fittings
2 x 18in long -3AN 3/16" Brake Line with straight female ends
2 x 16in long -3AN 3/16" Brake Line with straight female ends

Unfortunately Capital Motorsports does not sell outside USA, so I looked around to find these parts elsewhere. I found an ebay seller who has everything, Race Basics http://stores.ebay.ca/Race-Basics?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

There certainly are other places but I didn't want to spend more time looking.

Pearldrummer7

07-15-2014, 12:15 PM

Frank818

07-15-2014, 12:22 PM

Pearldrummer7

07-16-2014, 05:52 AM

No worries for being late, man, I brought back some 8-10-months old info on a few other threads (I wasn't there yet before). :)

As for the increase stiffness of my preferred pedal (gas! :)), I think I will wait until I am much further in the build, just to make sure I don't need to pass through, install something close to the pedals or re-arrange what's in there. I can't trust the manual. If I make it permanent now, who knows if I'll need to undo it later. I probably won't know until this Autumn. But metros already did something. I'm pretty sure I'll do different but he found something nice too.

I know that feeling! What a great pedal it is. Just did some measuring and checking out this stuff. My 2012 WRX's pedals are 58mm clutch-brake and 61mm brake to gas. The 818's pedals are 56mm clutch to brake and where I'm considering the gas pedal is about 59mm. Basically the same thing, just a touch closer together.

Why did you let your's hit the pedal assembly? I think it can be mounted under that and clear both, but perhaps there's enough travel with it just hitting the pedal assembly.(http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30823&d=1404328069 for reference)

Maybe I'm just overthinking all of this.

Frank818

07-16-2014, 07:30 AM

Pearldrummer7

07-16-2014, 08:58 AM

How can you have a different distance from clutch to brake between OEM and 818? My pedals are totally fixed on the pedal box so the distance remains the same. But since I am using pedal covers (not installed), I can play a little with clearances so if it's not perfect already a few mms here and there will make it perfect for me.

The cable travel as it is now (hitting the pedal box still) is more than what I need for the VW T-body. The VW t-body needs about 60mm of travel (if I recall, I think I posted the info on my thread) and the pedal installed on the FW gives more than that, even though it's still hitting the tube. The travel will not get reduced once I install my sound deadening and carpet on the FW, cuz when it hits the tube, it's not even yet parallel with the frame, so there is plenty of space for deadening and carpet.

I guess between 2002 and 2012 they changed the pedal distance slightly. I measured like 4 times and got my roommate to do it too (with my Horrible Freight calipers) and we got the same stuff.

I wonder how much travel I need for the Subaru throttle. Good call. I think I'll install mine there because I like the go-pedal a little higher up than it was when it cleared the pedal. You should have a ton of room for sound deadening.

Awesome info. Thanks as always, Frank!

Frank818

07-16-2014, 10:49 AM

Oh ok I thought you measured the donor's box pedal distances when on the donor and then after installed on your 818 but still on the same pedal box. Ok makes sense now about the 2002 vs 2012 comparison. loll

The other reason I didn't want the pedal too low is cuz again I will put some deadening on the floor, but I don't know yet how thick that deadening will be. If the pedal is 2mm off the floor, that doesn't give much play for deadening and carpet.

Brando

07-16-2014, 12:18 PM

I fixed the pedal directly on the FW, without FFR's bracket.
I also mounted my pedal to the FW. After a few knee jerk stomps on the pedal I noticed the FW rivets were popping off and the FW was removing itself from the chassis. I ended up laying a 1" x 3" L-Bracket aluminum and used 3/16" rivets to mount the 1" side to the chassis and used silicon on the 3" backside up against the FW. I mounted the pedal on the 3" side of the aluminum. It's super solid and the pedal sits in the same position.
I don't have my car currently so i can't snap a pic for you so I hope that makes sense. It was a PITA to get in there with seats, dash and console installed

Frank818

07-16-2014, 12:46 PM

Tnx for sharing Brandon.

You found out after the fact (everything else installed and in the way) that the FW wasn't stiff enough?
That's why I fear of making some permanent changes too early, just in case I need to do something that I won't know until later and if I do the wrong thing now I'll be stuck later. loll

I do not know yet how I will stiffen it, but yes there is no way I will leave it wobbling on the FW. However I think I'll find an easier way than riveting or drilling in hard to access areas.

Pearldrummer7

07-17-2014, 05:59 AM

I also mounted my pedal to the FW. After a few knee jerk stomps on the pedal I noticed the FW rivets were popping off and the FW was removing itself from the chassis. I ended up laying a 1" x 3" L-Bracket aluminum and used 3/16" rivets to mount the 1" side to the chassis and used silicon on the 3" backside up against the FW. I mounted the pedal on the 3" side of the aluminum. It's super solid and the pedal sits in the same position.
I don't have my car currently so i can't snap a pic for you so I hope that makes sense. It was a PITA to get in there with seats, dash and console installed

Brando,
Can we get a pic of this? That sounds like a good idea to me

Thanks,
Frank

EDIT: Just saw that you don't have the car now. Whoops! Whenever you get it back!

nuisance

07-17-2014, 09:09 AM

I also made a new bracket to mount the gas pedal. It is 1/8" aluminum, bolted to the backside of the tube there. I (luckily, thanks to discussion here) did it before I riveted that piece of firewall.

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John

Brando

07-17-2014, 09:59 AM

31435
Frank (Pearldrummer), I won't have my car for over a month so I would say it's just like Johns above except the aluminum i used had a 90 degree bend with a 1" lip. I drilled that lip into the right side of the tube instead of the backside like John did. I had already installed my panels so I had to go this route but either will work.

Frank818

07-21-2014, 02:15 PM

Installed my rear parking brakes. Not easy with 2 hands, but I managed to do it. I had to re-use my old rusted Forester 2000 springs (3 on each side) cuz the springs kit I got had the wrong springs for half of them.

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And the clutch master cylinder from an NA is really not supported, the one from the WRX fits MUCH MUCH better. Interestingly I got a black cap. Who cares...

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Frank818

07-22-2014, 06:11 PM

For full torque specs of the rear suspension, visit here http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15157-Rear-suspension-full-torque-specs

Frank818

07-22-2014, 06:22 PM

FFR upper trailing link freakin close to the rim. This will not pass inspection (and I would be too afraid to leave it that way), so I had to move the 2 washers on the same side, which cleared about 0.25 or 0.32". Some others had to do that as well. I am a bit concerned about the fact the ball joint has much less play twisting side to side with the 2 washers on the same side, but my mech seems to think it's enough.

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OEM trailing arm poly bushing crushed. Apparently it's ok to leave it that way and won't cause any harm. The arm is not angled like I'd like, the U bracket that goes on the spindle/bushing seems to be angled the wrong way. Not sure if it's acceptable or not, for the moment I leave it that way.

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Installed one rear wheel. I know, it's backwards, it was for eye adjustment of the camber, toe and clearance. There are a lot of adjustments possible.

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Frank818

07-23-2014, 12:52 PM

Installed the pedal covers. Took a long time for the gas, had to drill in the end. Also I had to fit it lower otherwise it was way too complex to install. That should be ok as it may help heel-toe.

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Test fitted my Corrado Recaro seat (passenger at the driver's place), seems tight, but the seat will sit higher and a little forward. Clearance all around is not huge, though. I may need to crush the steering column (Rori's idea) in order to push forward about 2" the steering. But before I do that I want to fit the seat and my other s/w. Plenty of space for the legs, but the rest it's tight, I understand the 6'4" guys...

The Recaro seats are bolted from underneath towards the top, so no way I will use FFR's seat mounts which bolts from side to side. I plan on using a simple slider for the driver's and fixed for passenger. Also plan on keeping the small cross bar in front, might be helpful a lot in case of a side impact on the door!

Yes, the wiring for electric adjustment and heating will be kept. I will lose height adjustment, cuz the mechanism is embedded in its frame support which I had to remove cuz the track system slides within tracks that are part of the Corrado's chassis and installed facing horizontally one to each other. Too complex to build something with enough strength. I will use an aftermarket slider system (tracks facing upwards) that has the strength and will bolt from underneath using custom brackets.

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Frank818

07-28-2014, 10:41 AM

Found a solution for the seats. I will NOT use the sliding rails. The seat barely moves 2 to 3 inches back and forth, limited by the small crossbar in front and the tank's firewall in the back. I will rather use a C channel rail into which I will drill oval holes at the bottom, allowing me to manually move the seat if I ever need to. Unbolt, slide on the X bars on the floor, re-bolt. I have never touched my seat in my Corrado for years!! No one but me and my mech drives it. So I won't in this one. The C channel rail will have 4" high at the back and 6" at the front, to give the seat about the same tilt I have now. The seat will be high causing the head rest to be very close to the top of the roll bar when it's fully extended/raised (head rest). I will lower the head rest a little.

I think I will sit high compared to others. 4" in the back of the seat is quite a lot I think. What's your seat height?

VR6 Fuel pumps: No issue to fit the OEM pump in. FFR provided all the hardware, including level sender. The OEM VR6 pump is very similar to the OEM Impreza pump, so we also believe even the pump bracket will fit! Then I will fit my inline aftermarket pump outside the tank, just like now. We believe all this should be 95% straight forward.

VR6 Engine: my mech is late, very very late. He's waiting for Porsche parts to complete 3 engines, the cars are using lifts and my lift is in use. Some parts are BOed so I wait. :( We need a lift to strip down the Corrado. So I am doing very little on the car, as everything else depends on the engine installation, now. I am finishing some interior alu panels, getting my seat C channels custom made but that's pretty much it. I guess the engine won't be in until September.

I have also slowed down cuz my gf and I have just split, hence affecting my concentration on everything.

I hope to be able to catch up that lost time before the first snow, usually in November (stupid Canada), when I plan on towing back the car in my personal garage for wiring, body and finishing details.

Hindsight

07-28-2014, 10:53 AM

Sorry to hear of your split :( I hope it works out for the best. I dealt with the same thing last year and it worked out well in the end for me.

Any reason the brackets for the seat are going to be so high? If you are currently planning on 4 back and 6 front to get the right angle, when not 1 in the back and 3 in the front - if they can be made that low to fit?

AZPete

07-28-2014, 12:58 PM

Like Hindsight, I like the Recaro seats but would need them much lower. Can you post a photo of the seat bottom? I hope the seat mount and/or frame can be cut down.

Frank818

07-28-2014, 03:54 PM

Hind and AZ, tnx for that, a couple of weeks and it will work out for the best for me.

Good questions on the seats, when I test fitted them with me sitting in I realized if the seat is too low the SW is too high even at it's lowest setting. One thing you have to know, I am only 5'6".
Now I think I'd have to try say 2 in the back and 4 in the front. I tried 0 in the back and 4 in the back, but nothing in between. Maybe I should give it a try before I commit on 4/6.

The Recaro's bottom is totally flat once you remove the 6 Hex bolts that keep in place the tubing, height adj motor, electric controls and rails. And that removes probably 15-20lbs of weight as well, I was impressed.

I do have a pic, let's see oh I never posted it, that's why.

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AZPete

07-28-2014, 04:30 PM

Thanks for the photo of Recaro bottom but it looks like it's not easily cut down lower. Thanks.

Frank818

07-28-2014, 06:32 PM

Maybe I'm being slow, what is not easily cut down?

AZPete

07-28-2014, 06:53 PM

The Recaro seat looks like it would not be easy to cut down shorter. I've hacked the steel frame of the Subaru seats to get them real low and they will work for me without getting bugs on my forehead but I was thinking of possibly doing the same with Recaros.

Frank818

07-28-2014, 07:04 PM

Cutting down the seat itself? I have not thought about that yet. I guess to see what's inside I'd have to get all the cloth removed. And there is the heating system there (to warm up your butt) which I have no idea how it's fitted inside, so yes, it's probably not easy to cut down. But it's quite possible my 4inch high in the back is too high.

Other possibility, I could increase the spacer size for the steering column. I have slightly already, but maybe I could add another half and then lower my seat. Being too tall is not good on that car as I've seen, but being too short has its challenges too. :)

AZPete

07-28-2014, 09:31 PM

Frank, as you shorten the steering column the wheel gets lower.

Frank818

07-29-2014, 07:20 AM

Makes sense, cuz the column is angled up. But so far I don't need to shorten it, the distance is fine for me. If I shorten it, I need to bring my seat further up front which then hits the small cross bar, unless I raise the seat a lot to go over the bar. Like I said, tall guys have issues, very small ones too. lolll :) But I think it won't be complicated to find the good balance with what's in place.

Frank818

08-04-2014, 11:56 AM

Couple of updates and some questions on the rad installation.

First of, the Corrado will be stripped starting on Aug 16th, which is very late but my mech will work 100% of the time for a while to catch up. So I guess the engine fitting will start a bit after mid-Aug.

Second, I have an earlier version of the rad (same as Mike Everson and a few others) with the inlet on top right corner instead of top middle. I am not sure which side is the top and bottom, I think it's like this, can anyone confirm?

32121

Then, since the lower rad mount bushings have a hole in the middle, I guess the 2 pins on the rad slide in the bushing's hole, right?
Ok, now how do I install the top mounts? I have no pins there.

32122

Then, in the manual when you install the FFR rad support they say to use 6 bolts of one type and 2 of another. I can't seem to understand on the drawing where are the 2 bolts/nuts of #7/#8 going. Anyone knows?

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I am not sure I know which bolts these are as well (7 and 8 from previous pic).

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During my install of the support, when I fitted one of the 6 bolts, the passenger side top forward bolt didn't fit. I mean the nut doesn't. I had to grind the triangle support a little.

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Are we installing 3/8-16 x 1 bolts or 0.3125-18 x 1.25 here?

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On another note, dropped the car to see how it'd look like.
Kick a** wheels, hey? I am talking about the front. loll

3212532126

This is the worst place for such a defect, it's on the roll bar, the bottom section and DRIVER's side, the place where I'll see my fix all the time. Oh well.

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jayguy

08-04-2014, 04:20 PM

I am not building an 818, nor do I own a Subaru.

However, I believe you have the radiator oriented properly in the first picture, based on the drain valve (petcock) in the lower right. Pretty sure that would be towards the bottom, not the top, like it would be if you turned it around.

Also, I love the front wheels! You need to roll it round on 4 like that! :P

Frank818

08-04-2014, 04:30 PM

Tnx Jay, that's what I thought with the drain valve, I don't think it would be on the top.

I tried the wheele in the back! They don't fit by 1mm or so and rub on the caliper (scratches paint and wheel doesn't turn), even if I put spacers. I wanted to use them on all 4 so they can get dirty no prob (it's dirty at my mech's shop), but I am now short 2 wheels, so just for the sake of moving the car a bit to gain space for the rad support I put my real rear wheels on.

jayguy

08-04-2014, 04:55 PM

That's too bad they don't fit, but you don't want to scratch up the caliper paint. Hopefully the back wheels won't get too dirty during the build.

Been watching your build from the start, waiting to see how well the VR6 goes in and performs. Keep up the great work.

Jay

Frank818

08-04-2014, 08:35 PM

Actually to prevent the rear wheels from getting filthy, I removed them and put the frame back on 4 jack stands. loll I have enough parts to clean up like that, I want to keep the wheels away from it.

Tnx for watching, that does encourage me. I hope I won't disappoint you. :) So far end of Aug or beg of Sep I believe the engine would be almost in, or trying to work out the mounts, placement and stuff like that.

Something tells me the GT35's torque surge around 3300-3500 will be too violent for the 818. I have a few solutions for that, time will tell which one sounds best. I can't wait to hear the sound of that engine with a short 3" exhaust and minimalist sound deadening. So far whatever I have done to this exhaust the sound was awesome. Will I reach a climax in the 818? I hope so, it's one of my secret goals.

RM1SepEx

08-05-2014, 07:29 AM

Frank, you powder coating defect is low enough that it is under the engine cover... welcome to the poor prep powder coating club

Frank818

08-05-2014, 12:36 PM

Dan, tnx for confirming, it removes some stress on me. I didn't realize the body would cover that part as I am not that far in the build yet. No one knows the body more than you do, so I know you are 100% right. :)

Frank818

08-05-2014, 12:51 PM

My installation of the rad. Since I use a 92-01 type with the inlet on the top right corner and I bought the knock off on ebay, I see it is not a bolt-on. I thought, after understanding what others said, that it would be, but mine isn't.

The bottom posts do fit perfectly in the lower mount bushings. But the lower left outlet barely rubs on the frame, so for now I put some electric tape on the frame, planning to slide in a thin foam or something later on:

32174

Then, the top right inlet rubs on the bolted right side rad support bracket:

32173

This one is a little more tricky. I thought to swap around the brackets so the L shape would go outwards, but I fear it could cause other problems later in the build when I install fenders, alu panels, etc. So I decided to trim it. There isn't much stress on these brackets, so I assumed the trim would be ok. Final result:

32175

It took a while to trim.

These are the final pictures of the installation, nothing is clamped yet, but it gives an idea of the clearances and stuff:

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As you can see on one pic, I have put the OEM upper mount bushings in the holes on top of the rad. There are NO posts there and the holes are a little too big, but it fits and it's easy to make the bushings fit snug if I want to. I will then have to figure out a custom bracket, probably something bolted on the upper rad transverse bar (like FFR) and a post on the other side that would slide down into the upper bushings. Shouldn't be too hard to fab.

Other note: plenty of clearance for the steering bellows.

Goldwing

08-05-2014, 03:31 PM

I used a thick bushing/bearing washer where the lower radiator rubber mounts pop through the frame. The original lower mounts have a thicker sleeve than the 818 frame holes, so it more resembles the original fit. I put it on top of the frame, then popped the lower mount through both the washer and the frame. It doesn't add much height, but if you only need a little to stop any rubbing (if I understood you right) it could be just enough. I found some at the local hardware store.

RM1SepEx

08-05-2014, 03:44 PM

Frank, looks like the radiator fits OK with some minor tweaks. A bolt would make a great top post and while I did use the chopped up Subaru mounts for the top on my early frame we had to shim the radiator up so I had to raise it with bushings, those mounts could easily be made out of aluminum angle...

I think several of the forum members are a bit more experienced with the body than I am! :cool:

My frame has been cut, welded, scraped, had PC flake off, peel off, never actually get baked correctly (don't know how that happened) I keep finding new flaws as I work on the car. Don't worry about it, POR 15, black paint, sandpaper... it will look just fine.

Ok and there will be someone, on this forum, that does it better, cleaner, neater etc... BFD

Life is good, enjoy the build!

Frank818

08-05-2014, 06:10 PM

Rich, Dan, yeah I didn't think of adding height to the rad to clear out some of the rubbing. I am afraid having the rad too high will hit on the hood or something, but I think there is play. Though with the trimming I did, it now fits fine. Maybe I could have avoided that with more height, should have posted the question before doing my mod. lolll My bad.

Good idea on the bolt as a post!! :)

So far the quality of my kit is better than I expected, so crossing fingers nothing major will come up.

RM1SepEx

08-05-2014, 10:36 PM

there is a ton of room over the radiator, mine has been raised about 1/2 to avoid the hose/rack issue. I thought it was fixed a long time ago! Mine is #17

Frank818

08-06-2014, 07:28 AM

Wilwood brake lines and fittings issues.

It's been discussed that Wilwood kits, except the 13", do not come with flexlines and caliper+FFR lines fittings. So we need to outsource.

508Stroker gave a list of parts from Capital Motorsports to order and make it a bolt-on without using the FFR metric adapters. Unfortunately CM does not ship overseas, so I had to find elsewhere.

At CM, this is what is required:
2 ea XRP402603 -3 AN to 3/8"-24 NPT male-female fittings (packs of 2)
4 ea XRP981603 -3 AN to 1/8" NPT Pipe Straight Fitting
2 ea SBL318 18in -3 AN female straight Brake Line
2 ea SBL316 16in -3 AN female straight Brake Line

Stroker said that "the cost was about $90 for everything, though you could save about $17 if you want to use the fittings from the kit and delete the first item in the list above."

Also you can buy the kit from Wilwood with metric/std adapters:
FRONT
http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/LineKitsProd.aspx?itemno=220-7009
REAR
http://www.wilwood.com/LineKits/LineKitsProd.aspx?itemno=220-7010

I chose to discard the FFR adapters and went with Stroker's idea, but found an ebay seller I ordered from on Monday.
I ordered this:

32205

The cost is USD$95, however, the guy refunded me $USD16.55 for shipping over-charge, even though I have never asked for it (how could I know). This guy is awesome, I can't recall being refunded for something I didn't know. Overall WITH SHIPPING TO CANADA, it cost me just shy under $USD80!

Now I hope I got the right stuff. lolll

Frank818

08-07-2014, 04:59 PM

Steering wheel Turn signal canceling and Horn functions installation.

That was long. A day of work. AZPete's installation procedure http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12759-FFR-Steering-wheel-installed was only 10% helpful for me, as everything else was somewhat different, I guess my 2003 NA s/w is different. So here's what I did:

There are 2 T30 screws on the sides of the airbag, you remove and airbag pulls out. You get this:

32269

Get the 17mm nut out from the center of the s/w and pull out the wheel towards you without hitting your face.
You then get a black plastic assembly, somewhat round, with a yellow sticker, just like on AZPete's pic.
His procedure to remove the plastic tube from that hole does not work at all for me, so I removed the 4 small screws holding the plastic assembly on the column (the column covers (top and bottom) must be removed). The way this freakin thing is mounted, and it took me a lot of time to figure out, is that there are 4 short tabs (half a T form) in the middle of the hole that grabs a little lip/notch inside the hole.

32270

The tube is installed from behind the assembly, not from the front. There are many plastic tabs and notches all around that assembly, to separate the 2 faces of the assembly, but they won't get your tube out! Cuz the tube, from behind, has a larger flat lip that is larger than the hole of the assembly, so it can't be pushed through from behind, you have to pull it out from behind by prying out the 4 small tabs from the middle of the hole. Then it pops out/down.

322713227232273

To fit the NRG short hub SRK-100H I need that tube and I need to keep the back side of the plastic assembly. Once the tube is out, you can pry the little tab over their notches all around the plastic assembly to get the faces of it off. Once you separate the 2 faces, back and front, you get a mess like this:

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You basically can discard everything except the black plastic back face (the one that screws on the white portion).

Next post for more, as I am only allowed 10 pix per post.

RM1SepEx

08-07-2014, 05:16 PM

Frank, the later parts are different! :( that is why his directions don't work exactly for you! See my post, (my donor was an 05, Pete's was 07 I think) I added some add'l photos... with ours we attach that tube to the NRG hub with the brass horn connection ring on it. Itstall/attach the tub so that the extended portion is on the left side, that way it trips the blinkers off with the least rotation. In theory your soln should be similar to what our's was

Frank818

08-07-2014, 05:21 PM

That center lip on the back face I mentioned and showed above, you have to grind it off so that the tube can slide through the back face from the front. Once you grind it off and reinstall the back face, here's how it looks:

32276

Then for the horn, the ground is attached over the cruise controller, behind the metal plate. You just remove the plate, flip it around, detach the electric connector and cut the green wire.
BTW, all yellow wrapped wires can be ditched, as they are for the airbag.

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There are various ways to build your own horn connector. I chose to re-use that OEM connector cuz my mech happened to have a Porsche skate for the horn.

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This skate has a copper blade on the other side, which slides and makes the connection on the back copper disc of the NRG hub.

Back on the tube, I first needed to fit that tube on the hub. I used alu tape like Pete to enlarge the diameter of the middle portion of the hub so that the tube would slide in snug and centered. Then I use 2 of the many tabs from around the tube to drill through the tube and hub and screw the tube in place. Warning here, the screws must not be too long, otherwise they will block the middle hole of the hub and you won't be able to slide the hub on the column's splines. Guess what, I re-used 2 OEM screws that were inside the OEM s/w! Around the metal crap that you have seen in a previous pic, there are small bronzish tapered screws, just perfect to screw through metal!

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Make sure you center as much as possible the hub with the tube, I mean the tube centered with wheels centered and hub centered. The way the signal cancel works is when you turn on the signal, a small post pops out from the left side of the column and hits the long tab on the tube (located to the left, then). Then you turn, the springy post extends further towards the center of the tube past the long tab and when you turn the other way the long tab then hits the post and the signal arm comes back to normal turning off the signal.

And finally the horn, after using 2 bolts, the Porsche horn skate, coupe of nuts to get the right clearance, red loctite to prevent the nuts from loosening, drilling a hole to pass through the horn connector and test fitting the installation to make sure the bolts won't touch the copper disc on the hub (!!!!), I ended up with this:

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And finally, with the NRG Quick Release SRK-280NB installed, I have a "HORN"y s/w installation! :D

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Frank818

08-07-2014, 05:23 PM

Frank, the later parts are different! :( that is why his directions don't work exactly for you! See my post, (my donor was an 05, Pete's was 07 I think)

Yes, 06 or 07.

Frank818

08-08-2014, 07:05 PM

The guys at NRG are wrong.

They said the short hub + QR would equal OEM distance between s/w and blinker/wiper arms. Wrong. It's off by about 1". Too many!

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(don't look at the s/w too closely, I know one of the sticker fell off, I planned to fill up that space or wrap it anyway so I don't mind the Chinese glue not sticking)

My finger's tip barely touches on the blinker and I am not Darel Strawberry or Magic Johnson. Obviously I cannot shrink that part, I'll have to get used to it, I think it's gonna be ok and one thing's for sure, I will never hit any arm by mistake (which I do sometimes). Also I always use sports car leather gloves when I drive my Corrado and will do with the 818 as well, since it lengthen just a bit the finger, it may help as well.

That being said, I am also off by 1" for my entire seating position! I needed to push forward the s/w already, now I need to collapse it a lot more. According to my calculations, I'll have to collapse the column by 2 to 2.5". Pushing back the seat is not much an option as I will have probably 0 to 1" of play already. So rori's column spacer will probably be used entirely, tnx to that bracket.

But too bad NRG cannot replicate the OEM distance. Back in the days of the good old no airbag steering wheels, all this was super easy: remove wheel, install hub, install new wheel, connect horn wires, all done. Blinkers, horn and OEM distance were all kept perfect. Regulations and engineers thought they were smart by introducing airbags, hey? Not for a kit car. lolll

JeromeS13

08-08-2014, 07:20 PM

It looks like your steering wheel has a fair amount of dish to it? Maybe their calculations were based on a completely flat wheel?

Frank818

08-08-2014, 07:42 PM

It looks like your steering wheel has a fair amount of dish to it? Maybe their calculations were based on a completely flat wheel?

Good point man! Sorry NRG, I'll put my statement on the back burner for 1 week. For some reason I thought my s/w was the only one in the universe. loll
It's not flat, but it's not amongst the most "dished", certainly not by 1".
I'll take a top or side pic next time, which is Sat the 16th, the second most important day after my pick-up date, cuz it's my Corrado stripping Day 1! :) Wiring is gonna be hell, I have so much stuff I changed or added since OEM...

metalmaker12

08-08-2014, 09:41 PM

I see your putting this thing together nicely, but my main question is " when you going to make your drivetrain fit." I will assume much cutting and grinding will be occurring followed by much welding. I think the biggest issue will be the engine height difference, and than the 818 engine cover actually fitting in the same place. I am interested in how your going to do it, cause I am thinking of building another frame with a Honda s2000 engine matted to a wrx tranny.

Frank818

08-09-2014, 06:09 AM

We start on Aug 16th, if the weather allows me to drive the Corrado to the shop for it's funerals. Until then I was doing just some little things that should not be impacted by the engine installation.
I believe by mid-Sept to late Sept the engine should be in or we would be very far, depending how bad the issues are. Oh yeah there will be.
The height is my main concern, yes. But if a TDI fits, maybe an S2000 would?

Frank818

08-10-2014, 07:08 PM

Reached a milestone today.

Sentimental milestone, personal one. I hit EXACTLY 105,000km when I entered the garage at my parents house on a visit. It was the last visit to my parents with the Corrado and spot on at 105,000.

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In my trip to my parents' house, I tested my phone's recording feature. I think the 1080p video quality is pretty great, but the sound is filtered, as you can read in the videos' descriptions if you open them on youtube's site.

http://youtu.be/6XHPBrJJxN4

Frank818

08-10-2014, 07:09 PM

http://youtu.be/XDXJTJl3dt8

Frank818

08-10-2014, 07:09 PM

http://youtu.be/MQhaUc8WObU

No, I am not flooring it. Barely, maybe 40-50% in 3rd gear.

metalmaker12

08-10-2014, 07:39 PM

Nice gloves Stig!!!

Frank818

08-10-2014, 07:44 PM

Yeah like I mentioned with my s/w, I'm gonna need 'em for the blinkers. :)

wleehendrick

08-11-2014, 11:00 AM

cause I am thinking of building another frame with a Honda s2000 engine matted to a wrx tranny.

Great idea; perfect motor for a NA 818, but will it fit? I'd expect an I-4 mounted longitudinally be so long that it would stick into the tank area like Erik's electric motor does. Frank, you're planning on mounting the VR6 transverse with VW transaxle, right?

Frank818

08-11-2014, 11:21 AM

Frank, you're planning on mounting the VR6 transverse with VW transaxle, right?

Yes, basically the exact same config it has in the Corrado (and any other VW VR6 configs of those years, much newer versions derived from this engine may have it longitudinally, but I'm talking 90's and early 00's), except the engine will be behind my behind instead of up front. The intake manifold will face towards the front of the car and the exhaust manifold (along with turbo) will face towards the back, just like now.

The turbo's outlet will project straight 90-deg towards the driver's side.

Tranny config the same, transverse.

AZPete

08-11-2014, 11:25 AM

Frank, nice work on the steering wheel mount, especially using your head when you saw yours was different from my 06 and Dan's 05. I agree that the modern steering wheels are tougher to change and Subaru even added the cruise control switch to make it even tougher. Are you using cruise?

Frank818

08-11-2014, 11:44 AM

Hey Pete,

Tnx for that, but I admit even though your installation was only 10% helpful for me (should have known 06 would most probably be different), that 10% gave me ideas and at least showed me, before hand, how the wheel is installed and things work now with airbags. From there yeah I had to improvise. :)

I am not sure for cruise yet. I have options on that. I can relocate the arm to the column like you did, but I must not forget in 03 the cruise was using an on/off switch located on the bottom left of the dash, not embedded in the arm like 05+. My other option is my ISIS electrical system (they now have an add on this forum). I can wire the cruise there and use some buttons on my tablet to control the cruise. No worries much. As of last week I changed mind and I don't plan on using it, as I never use it on the Corrado for the use I make of it.

AZPete

08-11-2014, 12:03 PM

I'm glad to see someone using ISIS on an 818. I installed ISIS (actually the early form called I-Squared) in my FFR roadster and it was easy to install, worked very well and was a big feature to the guy who bought my car. I didn't buy the ISIS system for my 818 because I wanted to see if I can make the OE ABS, PS and AC work. I'm sure you'll post the ISIS install and I look forward to it.

Frank818

08-15-2014, 07:05 AM

We start on Aug 16th

Delayed to the 23rd. :( My mech is taking another week off. This is just stressing, as there will be only 2 months left until it starts to snow and freeze, I need to tow the car back home before that time with all the list of things to install completed, so that I can do the finishing and stuff that doesn't need hard machining, air tools and a lift. I know my mech can make it before it's too late, my concern is that if I need to order some parts and it takes 6 weeks (custom shafts, Wayne's K-Tuned shifter cables, etc.), we're doomed. Also my mech doesn't know anything about what I learned on the forum and ways I want to build the car, he might do things I won't want. Or he might be blocked on something and wait for me to get an answer from the forum. Or we might need some R&D thinking time at some points, like to fit the K-Tuned on the new alu console. I can only work on Saturdays. Such bad organization but I understand he's got a shop to run and I don't pay a lot of money too. I'm not P1.

We'll see what ends up, but I can't wait to have that darn engine off the Corrado and start to finding the solution to fit it in the 818.

Frank818

08-16-2014, 02:52 PM

I have now become a steering wheel collapsor.

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I think I crushed about 2.25". It was 32.5 long before and now sits around 30.25. It seems just perfect, according to the rough seat position. I have a good 0.5" to 1" play back and forth for the seat, so I should be good. Too bad the column it's telescopic adjustable.

As you can see, the column sleeve sits just over the grommet. It's freakin' easy to collapse. You hit the spline rod, which will collapse within the the sleeve and then you hit the sleeve, which will collapse around the spline rod and you repeat until you get your length. The height and distance feels very good like this. My mech was surprised it would work, but everything turns as if it was uncrushed.

Now I need Rori's spacer, not those tie-raps. It's probably getting fabricated as we speak, hopefully.

Frank818

08-18-2014, 12:36 PM

Wleehendrick, you mentioned this about corner weight:

You're on the right track, Frank. Unless you get lucky, I expect your VW drivetrain to have a significant effect on weight distribution, Since it's going in mounted transverse, it'll likely shift the weight balance forward compared to a standard 818 with a longitudinal EJ and tranny sticking out back; moving the battery to the rear could help you there. The lateral asymmetry of the transverse motor/transaxle will probably require you to shift things around a bit, and could be tricky if it's way off, but as you say, better to address it in construction instead of trying to adjust out a big imbalance with ride height alone.

My thinking is opposite based on the info that I believe the engine will sit further back than the H4. Therefore, shifting weight rewards. The problem is this is only theory as of now, of course. I have no idea where the VW pivot point sits and where the H4's point sits. So it's very hard to determine if it's going to be more on the left, right, front or rear. I know it's gonna be higher, obviously, but apart that, I would think more in the rear.

On what assumption you think it would be up front? Based on the assumption the engine would sit at the same place as the H4? Then I would agree. But I'm not sure, I think the diff is further rewards on the H4, but I have yet confirmed that.

wleehendrick

08-18-2014, 12:58 PM

My thinking is opposite based on the info that I believe the engine will sit further back than the H4. Therefore, shifting weight rewards. The problem is this is only theory as of now, of course. I have no idea where the VW pivot point sits and where the H4's point sits. So it's very hard to determine if it's going to be more on the left, right, front or rear. I know it's gonna be higher, obviously, but apart that, I would think more in the rear.

On what assumption you think it would be up front? Based on the assumption the engine would sit at the same place as the H4? Then I would agree. But I'm not sure, I think the diff is further rewards on the H4, but I have yet confirmed that.

I based my comment on how far back the CG of the Subaru transmission is, but you're right in that the EJ's block is in front of the diff, whereas the VR6 will be completely inline with it, so that will mitigate the fore/aft shift somewhat. Your motor/tranny CG will be pretty close to right over the rear wheels. I'm not exactly how that compares to an EJ, but from lifting mine (albeit without the accessories installed), the CG seems to be a bit rearward. But this is totally unscientific, anecdotal evidence and I could be wrong.

Frank818

08-18-2014, 01:23 PM

I understand, tnx for the input. It made me think and check a little more, as you can see the axles are further back from the flywheel and to that add 1-2" further back again for the wheels. The only thing is I can't remember where the block sits compared to the flywheel axis, if it's right over, a bit back or front, tilted, etc.

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The subaru tranny may have a CG further in the back but how about the engine and tranny commingled, if you lift them from the axle points, is the unit tilting the front down or up. Probably down, as the weight would be in front of the rear wheels, which is what we want. Hopefully the same for the VR6.

But yeah, unless we have some real evidences we won't know until I fit it in and get the car on automotive scales. :) That reminds me, I need scales. :)

Frank818

09-02-2014, 04:19 PM

6 weeks behind schedule. Yes I have a schedule cuz of winter. When this crap thing starts, I need to get the car back home but how can my mech catch up 6 weeks within the next 9, that's a mystery. If he will. He will not. I am pissed, but not as much as Steve cuz thankfully my alu panels and FB panels are in good shape.

In the meantime we started tearing down the Corrado. It hurt. It did. Driving the car for the last time, listening to its sound for the last time, seeing it as a whole for the last time, all those countless hours I have spent on the car, for example the custom wiring and cutting down all those wires... it hurt. But I know it's for the best of both worlds, best for the Corrado and best for me. And best for the guy who'll buy my Corrado chassis.

Now that the sentimental part is past, this is the oil cooler (about 5"x5.5") I plan on reusing and will probably fit a fan behind to better control oil temp in town. On highway it's perfect, maybe even too cold, but in town when it's hot I would prefer the oil to be slightly colder. Anyway I can fit the fan easily any time in the future if I don't now.

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This is my heat exchanger for the AWIC. I will double its surface in the 818 and since the rad in the 818 is not compressed in the engine bay, so much less heat, I expect better efficiency from the rad due to the location and that should also help a little on the AWIC's exchanger. One 14" fan should be enough and will draw much less current than those monstrous double VW fans.

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While a Porsche was on a lift I saw the nice air scoops up front. Since the 818 has nothing to redirect air from the side scoops, I mentioned that many times, I might be using something similar to this:

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My mech has a bunch of Porsche air scoops so we'll see. Unless Mechie comes up with nice side scoop louvers.

This week the engine should be off the Corrado and in the 818. If it's not, then we will be 7 weeks behind schedule. I believe I have good chances to come back on Saturday night with the core of this thread: how on earth am I going to fit the VR6 within the 818 chassis. If not this week, then Saturday the 13th.

wleehendrick

09-02-2014, 04:47 PM

6 weeks behind schedule. Yes I have a schedule cuz of winter. When this crap thing starts, I need to get the car back home but how can my mech catch up 6 weeks within the next 9, that's a mystery. If he will. He will not.

As I told a project manager at work, whose life is schedule and budget, my build is (way) behind schedule and (slightly) over budget. It's not how you run a program, but how you build a dream car! The terms are scope-creep (keep adding things you didn't anticipate) and resource availability (my time)! Luckily, we have 'endless summer' so whenever it's done, I can enjoy it. :cool:

In the meantime we started tearing down the Corrado. It hurt. It did. Driving the car for the last time, listening to its sound for the last time, seeing it as a whole for the last time, all those countless hours I have spent on the car, for example the custom wiring and cutting down all those wires... it hurt. But I know it's for the best of both worlds, best for the Corrado and best for me. And best for the guy who'll buy my Corrado chassis.

Well at least it's heart will live on, and you'll remember it every time you drive the 818!

svanlare

09-02-2014, 09:33 PM

I'm happy to be ahead of my original schedule but I don't think it will last unless I take some time off this winter. It cracks the folks at work up that I have a burn down and schedule spreadsheet for the car project. As for budget, I blew that a while ago... and today ordered the ISIS wiring. While I'm at it, I suppose I should call wayne and get a K-tuned shifter.

Good luck with the getting the car home before winter starts, hoping it happens for you.

Frank818

09-03-2014, 07:42 AM

and today ordered the ISIS wiring.

Now that's great. I have a lot of hopes in that system. Especially that I know I will need a few custom features.

While I'm at it, I suppose I should call wayne and get a K-tuned shifter.

You haven't yet? :)

Good luck with the getting the car home before winter starts, hoping it happens for you.

Tnx yeah I hope as well, otherwise the 6 weeks delay will become a 52 weeks delay, due to 2015 winter and 2016 winter (I would register late fall 2015 so no time to drive, then winter 2016 doing nothing and driving finally spring 2016).

Frank818

09-03-2014, 07:52 AM

About the rear FW, I wrote a few posts in the rear FW thread and after looking at the Quebec rules (Canada has nothing to do with safety as it's part of the Provinces' jurisdiction), it seems for home built cars there is no impact rule. The only rule is HEAT. Applies to all fuel components, they must not be located at less than 15cm (6") from any kind of heat source. I have no idea where the engine will fit, but if it fits less than 15cm from the fuel tank, I will need a heat FW consisting of galvanized iron sheet(s). To hell the safety rear FW for impact, I'll take my chances and prevent adding more weight. I already add a lot more than many people here, I have to stop at some point and live with compromises.

Here's my plan: We will fit the engine with brackets, measure the half-shafts lengths I need, then remove the engine, call DriveShaftShop to order my custom set of $1000 shafts, fix a 6-8yo hard-to-pinpoint oil leak and while the engine is out, install the custom rear FW, as I think Pete said, it's really bad to install once the engine is in.

Frank818

09-06-2014, 03:13 PM

!!MAJOR UPDATE!!

Ok today is a major update in this build.

We prepped the frame to test fit the engine/tranny. Had to cut the Subaru engine supports, made a huge mess cuz we used a torch and water to cool down. But the result is great, almost no damage to the powder coat:

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While the engine was out, I found a cracked bolt edge on the tranny casing, but there is still strength on it. Not much I can do for that!

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Then we started test fitting.

With a 6sp 02A tranny, the VR6 does NOT fit without major frame (and possibly body) modifications.

Then my heart stopped for a couple of seconds.

With a 5sp OEM tranny, might be extremely tight or would not fit. My guess is would not. My guess is any transversal engine/tranny setup have good chances not to fit. Car engines, for bike engines I don't know.

The culprit is the width of the block and tranny. The reason why we couldn't measure things up before we got the engine out is cuz everything was bolted on and extremely hard to get precise measurements, we had to get the engine out to measure. Besides, this width depends on where the axles will fit and that also was too hard to measure in place.

The block and tranny are 35" wide and fit a few inches in front of the axles. Since it fits at the same height as the axle, the distance between the bottom of the left frame to the right bottom frame is about 25". Impossible to get 10". The big cross bars that support the shocks from top to bottom of the chassis cannot be altered without altering seriously the design of the car. Therefore, the 6sp 02A tranny with VW VR6 engine is a NO GO.

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At that point I realized my budget is totally out of whack and there is probably no way I will build this car for a decent price. And now I know that it will probably not be over until Autumn 2015.

My next post will detail my next steps. Cuz no, this project is not dead.

Frank818

09-06-2014, 03:14 PM

There are options. The one I chose may surprise many: mate a Porsche G50 to the VR6 using a Kennedy Engineering adapter plate. It's been done in a Porsche already.

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The G50 is 23" long, what's the length of the Subaru 5sp?

It seems to fit a few inches before the last bar of the tranny support on the frame, I think that's fine enough.
The axles will fit pretty much at the same place as the Subaru's. I think my mech measured the distance between the axles and engine block to be 7.5", which is more than enough to clear out the frame.

Plus, the VR6 will now fit longitudinally, which will give a lot of space on each side. But the length of the block with pulleys is about 19.5", we measured it would fit from under 0.5" from the rear FW, there is play but super tight.

Now I will have my turbo outlet on the right side, exactly the same as you guys. The engine will clear out the top cross bars under the humps. Might clear out the bolted on suspension brace, but that one is easily modifiable. The block will clear it, but not sure about my coil pack.

The sound of the VR6 has a lot of value to me, I am paying for it now. It's still worth moving on with it rather than using a Subaru H4 or H6, as my VR6 fits all of my engine needs, which is not the case with the H4 and H6. I don't care having a higher center of gravity for road purposes. So with a G50 tranny, I do not see real drawbacks. The main one of course is cost of all this turnaround. It's either I pay to move on with it or I throw out my Corrado with engine and the 818. That is not an option, the loss of those 2 will be way too much, I will have to find ways to finance the cost increase, period.

My mech already has a G50 tranny ready to use, so easy to find one for me. I will go back to 5sp then, but the 1st gear has about the same ratios as I have now, that is important. Also the reverse will be like you guys, in place of the 6sp on the shifter, so no need for me to build a reverse gear that would be left to the 1st on the k-tuned shifter that is not made for that.

I knew the risks. I decided to try even though I couldn't have all the precise measurements, I failed partly, but I won't stop there, as full failure has never been an option and never will be.

Speedy G

09-06-2014, 05:00 PM

Crap! That's bad news. Yeah, the cross bar sucks... You're probably better off anyway, since that VW tranny is not the strongest, now you have options.

Check out my thread regarding tranny length: Tranny length (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15236-Dimensions-of-subie-tranny-behind-the-axles)

Also I've been looking at alternative tansaxles. The G50 is an option and will most probably fit, but also take a look at boxter transaxles. The G50 was a rear engine, while the boxter is a mid-engine. There is a difference in lubrication that could be relevant at your power levels. I haven't decided what to do, but I may be looking at a PBS squential.

Good luck!

Speedy G

Speedy G

09-06-2014, 05:41 PM

Btw, I've considered everything from powerglides with all sorts of rear ends with custom couplings (C5, Ford 9", Ford 8.8", etc), but definitely the easiest is a porsche transaxle or a subbie transaxle. In your case it might be easier for you to use the tranny from the donor, just rebuilt for torque. Subbie trannies are long, but if you have the frame, you're half way there. I'm including the schematics from the PBS so you get an idea of the dimensions of other transaxles. The PBS is shorter than the subbie and way stronger than the porsche transaxles. What sucks about porsche is the price f everything.or

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You could consider a FWD passat longitudinal 6 speed. They'll probably bolt right up, and from the following pic, they'll probably fit, but you'll at least need a cryo treatment. Your current flywheel/clutch might even work.

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Speedy G

Speedy G

09-06-2014, 11:27 PM

Btw, if you go with a boxter tranny, it should be the G86.20, a 6 speed. I've seen them for 2500 on ebay and 5k new. If you do go with a G50, here's a relevant thread:http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tech-powertrain-transaxles/17979-porsche-g50-gearbox-inverted.html

Frank818

09-12-2014, 05:19 PM

This post may not be of interest to anyone who doesn't plan on fitting a different transaxle than the Subaru's.

Tnx Speedy for the suggestions. I did search a lot and checked many options. Unfortunately the PBS only has one with 5sp (others are 4sp) and the available gear ratios are way too short for road driving a very light car. More suited for offroad or electric. At least that's my opinion. Besides, according to the precise measurements above, some measurements are way off to make it fit with the VR6. And I don't have an adapter plate either.

The G86 has bad ratios as well and I couldn't find a gear set for this one. Also I do not know if anyone makes an adapter plate to mate it with the VR6, maybe KEP does but I didn't ask. The other thing is I do not know if it will fit. Because everything is EXTREMELY tight in the engine bay and transaxle sections, a quarter of an inch too many can throw out a solution. I could not find precise measurements of the G86 either.

Everyone installing a non-Subaru engine and/or a non-Subaru tranny should read this : FFR did not build a kit and dump in a Subaru transplant. They took the Subaru transplant and built a kit around it! Which means they didn't take into account any free space anywhere, which is ok of course, that was the plan. Anyone trying to fit something else will have a lot of headaches and will be very limited in terms of engine/tranny choices.

BTW, a Porsche H6 will not fit without important frame mods. It's 21.5" long and the Porsche gearboxes usually have a face of bell housing to axle center around 8" apart, which makes the whole transplant too long by about 2". Plus, the Porsche engine will hit the forward rear lateral link's supports. I checked with one engine at the shop.

So my solution was to land on a Porsche '89 G50/01. Easy measurements, as I have a tranny in my hands! The beauty of this gearbox is that it's very strong, versatile and scalable. First of, as you can see in the pix I have to fit it inverted (upside-down) for 2 reasons: this allows to drive the car forward when the engine is in front of the G50 and second it lowers the engine by about 1.5" to clear the top. The oil pan should arrive just above the belly pan. I will use NACA scoops to air cool the oil pan, as the VR6 is not designed to be in a closed engine bay (nor the Subaru's) and NACA scoops don't affect drag, or very negligible.

Then I can change any of the 5 gear ratios independently. The available ratios on the market are huge, I can get easily what I need. About $900 per gear. Sounds expensive, but on the Audi 01E FWD 6-sp tranny (same as Passat B5 or something, it's mostly a TDI tranny) in order to get a custom set of 6 ratios it's about $8-9k!!!! And that tranny would hold my engine higher. Good thing is it's 125lbs and the G50 is 150lbs. Heavy.

Having the right gear ratios is very important for me. You could have the best car in the world, if the gear ratios aren't suited for it, you will not have fun driving it. I am not investing all that crap load of money to have too short gears or something.

The VR6 engine, from the crank's bolt to the block edge where the bell housing bolts, has 19.5" long (wide, but in a longitudinal installation it becomes the length), + 0.665" for the adapter plate, + 8" for the axles distance from bell housing and as you can see on the pix it gets really pushed backwards. The axles will always be at an angle 2-ways: horizontal and vertical, cuz the axles sit quite high on the tranny once inverted. I calculated the axles will be 3-4" backwards than the hubs, which is a lot. It's ok but it's limit. Should be more like 1-2". Also the axles will be very close to the small V cross bar when the car will be at full suspension compression. They will push forward due to the angle but I am sure it will be limit. And for that, I have no solution!

Then the rear FW will need to be installed on the inside of the tank area to give more engine clearance. No that's not all, my fuel pressure regulator which is fitted on the far front of the engine (when longitudinal) MAY hit directly one of the big V cross bar of the rear FW. If not, it will go inside the tank area close to the bar. Cuz it protrudes by about 1-1.5" from the crank's bolt. I may need to relocate the FPR, no issue, but that's another task on the list. It never ends, just to fit a different engine and tranny. Careful if you go that route!

All is limit. Limit everywhere!

There is a build thread here the TDI 98mpg Obama 818. He fitted a VW TDI with Audi tranny. Unfortunately his build thread doesn't mention any trick and doesn't show clear pix of the transplant, nor his photobucket-like build. So I couldn't use any of this very valuable information and had to check everything from scratch. He's the closest I know of fitting a complete different transplant. But I think it's a 4-cyl, not a 6.

The thing with the Subaru gearbox is that the face of bell housing to axle center distance is 6.5"!!!

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That is very short. Many gearboxes have a distance of 7.5 to 8.5", so you are loosing a lot just there (or gaining, if you use Subaru). And that measure is of high importance. Unless you have a very compact engine. The VR6 is already quite compact, but there are shorter 4cyls around, but they are not a 6!

I will have a lot of weight in the back, but I have no choice. What s*cks is that I pay not to get better parts or performance, but just to fit the parts. I pay to get parts that fit, whether or not they are better parts is of no importance, otherwise I can't fit the engine in. That is a very hard pill to swallow, but in the end the G50 with perfect gear ratios will probably work excellent and once I get it on the road I will forget that I most probably am building the most expensive 818 yet and I won't get much more than what you guys get. But my gearbox won't blow up and I will be able to get the best gear ratios to maximize traction and fun, that is super important for me. I want to pursue, we know things will fit, now.

If anyone needs to know, the axle-to-axle distance on the G50 is 10". So 10" wide at the axles. We have 13.5" of space there on the kit. I do not know the width of the WRX tranny.

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Aero STI

09-12-2014, 09:16 PM

I wish you luck as you continue this endeavor. The juice would not be worth the squeeze for me.

I'm wondering, did other builders misguide you on how much room was available for the motor and trans, or did you not ask for these measurements upfront?

Frank818

09-12-2014, 09:37 PM

I'm wondering, did other builders misguide you on how much room was available for the motor and trans, or did you not ask for these measurements upfront?

I have asked for lots of measurements and I was guided very good by a few people here who posted pictures of the measurements. I believe I had all the measurements, it's the ones on my engine when installed in the Corrado that were imprecise. It was not possible to take all of the measurements with enough precision and I guessed that I had enough play around. I didn't. It was way too difficult to picture precisely where the engine/tranny would end up or if other parts would cuz a problem. All was a matter of 1" or less in my measurements. Maybe 2" for one or the measurement. So the error must be 0, but when the engine is installed and there is no place to take precise measurements, you have an error and I fell into it.

But the more I think about it, once I get my right gear ratios, this VR6/G50 setup should be very interesting and I should be very happy. But if I knew before hand about the fitting, I would have thought different or done different or not bought an 818 at all. Now it's too late, if I don't continue, I will lose everything and find myself without a summer fun car. Worst case I'll sell one of my bikes, but I think if I take a little more time I can continue financing. It's just that it won't be worth what it'll cost. On the other hand, I don't plan on upgrading the engine, I stopped a few years back, going any further and I have to change every internal, so it's a 10-20k upgrade just to get 50, 100, 200whp more. I know I won't dump 15k every year on upgrading something, once I build it, I will maintain it, but that's all.

Aero STI

09-13-2014, 11:33 AM

You can still go with a Subaru drivetrain. I would suggest reading a bit about sunk costs.

305mouse

09-13-2014, 12:22 PM

Could you move the fire wall forward and put the tank in the front? That will gain you some much needed space

metalmaker12

09-13-2014, 01:07 PM

So are you going forward on this vw 818

Rasmus

09-13-2014, 03:14 PM

That totally sucks.

On the plus-side, kids are crashing their WRX's everyday.

Speedy G

09-13-2014, 03:42 PM

Well, it fits... At your power levels, it's probably best to invest in a tranny that can hold the power without problems anyway. That way you can drive it hard. The weight further back may mean better braking and maybe you'll be able to do powerslides which is something the 818 usually can't do. Can I ask what you're paying for the G50? A differential is probably a good idea too. I like wavetracs, they're like peloquins or quaifes but if a tire is off the ground it maintains torque to the other wheel.

Also, you talk about ratios, I totally agree, the proper ratios are totally worth it. May I ask what you're thinking? I'd think you'd need close ratios to get the best use of your turbo, but a low final ratio to make use of your massive torque, but not too low so that starting on a hill is difficult. When do you get full boost, 4000RPM? If so you'd probably want 2000RPM drops so as to stay in the boost zone on shifting?

Judging from what people are saying, 300 ft lbs of torque on a stock wrx tranny, 1st gear pretty much breaks loose, but it's manageable. You have probably 30% more torque than that. Although you have more weight in the back, and you'll hook up better than other 818s, your starting line ratio will have to be lower than the stock tranny. The stock tranny with 300 ft lbs of torque puts down around 3834ft lbs to the road in 1st. To keep the same torque to the road so you keep traction, you'll have to lower the SLR from (3.7*3.454) 12.78 down to around (3834 / 400) 9.58. That also means first gear is good to 50mph and your top ratio on the G50 (if you only change the final ratio) would give you a car a top speed of 205mph (328kph). That's with a 2.74 final ratio.

Btw with your engine, the numbers for this car are better than the lamborghini aventador but not quite at the Koennigsegg level. Just think about that when you pay the bill for the tranny. The stock wrx tranny would make you slip and slide like your corrado used to, and the same goes for the corrado tranny (3.3 first with a 3.6 final drive is 11.88 SLR, too much for your torque level).

Cheers!

Speedy G

Frank818

09-13-2014, 03:53 PM

You can still go with a Subaru drivetrain. I would suggest reading a bit about sunk costs.

There are other problems of doing this. I will lose money on my VW engine and stand alone ECU (after selling them), adding that lost to the cost of a 400whp Subaru drivetrain and I am probably equal if not worst than now. It's still an option, but it will be my last to take if I encounter major issues later on. So far we test fitted the main parts and it's ok. Super close in some areas but nothing dangerous. Measured same things 3-4 times using 2-3 different angles and it ends up ok.

Could you move the fire wall forward and put the tank in the front? That will gain you some much needed space

Yes I thought that, but I am not sure rewelding the cross bars, currently between the tank and engine, at another location (forward) is good for the frame's structure. I'll ask FFR.
I could get a Boyd tank and install it in the normal location but forward, clearing up 3" in the back and moving forward 3" the rear cross bars, if FFR says it's ok. With that mod, than all would fit easily.

So are you going forward on this vw 818

Yes and no. I lost the gearbox, so half of it is not VW anymore.
I am now going forward with the VW/Porsche 818. Still interesting to me, though!

Speedy G

09-13-2014, 04:12 PM

Frank, although you have the G50 in your hand, maybe the G86/20 could be a better fit even if it's more expensive, not as strong as the G50, and the ratios may not be as available. Check out this thread:

http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/technical-discussion-question/9783-porsche-trans-longitudinal-install.html

Although that's not a G86/20, I can't imagine the dimension would be that different since they fit in the same car (S vs regular). I'd give California Motorsports a call, just in case. I'd hate for your axles to hit the frame with the G50. The price for a rebuilt one sounds about the same as a rebuilt G50 .

Speedy G

Frank818

09-13-2014, 04:27 PM

Can I ask what you're paying for the G50?

$CAD5K. We checked the oil and it's awesome, my mech will open it this week (before I pay) and check inside, but it looks in excellent condition and the guy he got it from, he knows him.
On ebay you can get such trannies for 4 to 6k, USD, not rebuilt. Maybe some rebuilt for 6k, though. Add the shipping and taxes and that would be a huge amount! My mech's G50 is cheap, no taxes and no shipping, I can hardly find any better. I will have the option to change my ratios to what I need, if I need to. Though my current VW gearbox has awesome ratios, I realized that was on a front engine, front wheel drive, 50% heavier car. Might be quite different on the 818, I don't know, but what I know is that 02A cannot have different ratios (unless I get 5-6th only) than the ones it got. The G50 has full scalability and that has value to my eyes.

A differential is probably a good idea too. I like wavetracs

I am buying Wavetrac. That's what I got in the 02A too.

they're like peloquins or quaifes but if a tire is off the ground it maintains torque to the other wheel.

Exactly! Wavetrac doesn't.

Also, you talk about ratios, I totally agree, the proper ratios are totally worth it. May I ask what you're thinking?

Too early to tell, I have to drive the car and feel it. I have some goals though: I want to maximize traction, so I need a ratio that would allow say 5% spin. Of course I will never find one, unless I try many! I have one chance to get my ratios, I won't buy a bunch and sell the ones I don't like. If it spins way too much in 2nd or 3rd, I will get taller ones.
I also like a lot a 1st gear that is tall. Say going up to 90-95km/h. I'll see what this one does (I know it's 70), but I may not like it (too short).

I'd think you'd need close ratios to get the best use of your turbo, but a low final ratio to make use of your massive torque

The FD is 3.44, I don't plan on changing that one. It's relatively low. But I could, yeah.

When do you get full boost, 4000RPM?

3200 or so. But I control it to smooth out the boost and kick back. So now it may be a little higher, 3500, say.
Yup I plan on staying within the boost curve. But all this will be in a year. As I will need to drive it many times to get the hang of it. So far all this is just speculation, I have to finish my build first.

Judging from what people are saying, 300 ft lbs of torque on a stock wrx tranny, 1st gear pretty much breaks loose, but it's manageable.

Well I'm impressed, cuz with the Corrado 2nd gear was not easy to manage and if I recall I never used to go over 4500 with it, it was more powerful to shift in 3rd and floor it. I had the right amount of spin, or none at all (when on hotter days), in 3rd. Was my favorite gear!

But this is a totally different game. I don't want to compare cuz if we recall my first few posts, I am pretty sure I have a problem with my t-body, it's too big for the smaller intake tubing and I have no ramp inside to control air flow. A touch of the pedal and I believe too much air flows inside. When flooring, from 67% to 100% opening it never made a difference on power. So if I am at 100% and I lift off at 75%, the car continued to accelerate like if I was at full WOT. That power issue only happened under boost. Under vacuum, 80% was 80, 95 was 95, etc. I have a matching t-body now and will install after I get the car registered. And re-do all my fuel tuning. But by then all the build will be complete.

That also means first gear is good to 50mph and your top ratio on the G50 (if you only change the final ratio) would give you a car a top speed of 205mph (328kph). That's with a 2.74 final ratio.

1st gear is already 70km/h with a 3.5 ratio 1st and 3.44 FD.

Btw with your engine, the numbers for this car are better than the lamborghini aventador but not quite at the Koennigsegg level.

I already checked with a lot of supercars and motorbikes, yes. :)
But some people on this forum are building WRX engines with more power. And less weight. :) So I am not the most powerful, nor the lightest.

the same goes for the corrado tranny (3.3 first with a 3.6 final drive is 11.88 SLR, too much for your torque level).

2.7 1st gear and 3.66 FD on the EuroSpecSport tranny.
My old 02A 1st gear was 3.78 if I recall, on a 3.64 FD.

Frank818

09-13-2014, 04:29 PM

Frank, although you have the G50 in your hand, maybe the G86/20 could be a better fit even if it's more expensive, not as strong as the G50, and the ratios may not be as available. Check out this thread:

http://www.madmechanics.com/forum/technical-discussion-question/9783-porsche-trans-longitudinal-install.html

Although that's not a G86/20, I can't imagine the dimension would be that different since they fit in the same car (S vs regular). I'd give California Motorsports a call, just in case.

I'll take a look tnx. I have to remember that the G86 does not have a speedo. I need a speedo since I am using the VW cluster.
I also don't think this one can be run inverted, which would put the engine higher and might cause other fitment issues.

So you think the G86/20 is smaller than the G50?

Speedy G

09-13-2014, 05:06 PM

Man that's crazy low RPM for full boost, awesome!

It's not that it's smaller, but the axles are lower since it's already meant for a mid-engine setup (you don't have to flip it). Also, it looks like it's only 7.8" flange-axle centers. Rebuilt I've seen them for USD4400.

http://www.vertexauto.com/showitem.aspx?&id=279416&name=Porsche%20Boxster%20S%20Rebuilt%20Transmissio n%20-%206%20Speed%20-%20Includes%20Core%20Charge%20of%20%241%2C500.00

The speedo... Yeah, that's a downer. Although there are GPS speedos, like Eric's. Also, the one bad thing about the G86/20 is that the gears are pressed so you're stuck with the gearing, although there are gearing kits (oops that's a 5 speed kit):

http://www.gboxweb.com/boxchart.html

I've seen people mention Albins making final ratios, but I think it's numerically higher (4:1), not lower.

Btw no wonder you're pissed about the tranny, you already had one that could take the abuse :(

Speedy G

Frank818

09-13-2014, 06:48 PM

Tnx Speedy.

G86 for USD4400, that's CAD$4900 not shipped and without taxes. So more expensive to begin with than my mech's G50 (which is a 1988 G50/01, not 03). Then the speedo thing. Then the gearing, which even with your 4 choices I can't find anything close to what I believe I will like. And like I said, I'd rather pay 10k for a full tranny with LSD and 5 gears exactly like I want than any other tranny I can't gear to my likings. The G86 may save myself 1" (or 0.13"? And the Audi 012 1", not sure) and would be ok for shafts, but no one knows what other hassles I may encounter. That's the problem when you don't have the tranny handy or can't get a good enough mock-up. I am not sure I would risk that. If the G86 or 012 is better than the G50 only cuz it gives 1" more, knowing the other risks, I wouldn't give it a try.

The 012, well after googling I couldn't find any custom gear sets. It may exist but maybe not shown much on internet, I would have to spend maybe hours looking for something I don't know if it exists. If it does, than still same issues, I have to mock-up somehow the 012 with precise measurements, knowing exactly where it'll couple on the engine and for that I need to find someone who builds an adapter plate. Maybe KEP. But then what? Gear ratios, speedo, etc. GPS speedo is nice if I weren't using the VW cluster.

This is the problem with fitting something other than Subaru. If you change one thing, you may have to change others. Fixing one issue may cause you 3 other issues.

At 7.87", that's virtually the same as 8" that I have on the G50.

The only thing about the G50 is the tight fit of the shafts with the cross bars supporting the rear transaxle's support. Since the transaxle sits a little higher cuz it's inverted, the shafts are also pointing down and will probably never go high enough to hit the bars, but I don't know the suspension travel, so I can't check it out.

What I just did now is sent an email to FFR techs asking about these bars, what if I modify them, besides supporting the transaxle's support and small upper lateral link bracket, do they do any other task? We'll see. If they say no, then the hell with that I will modify them most probably, as long as they still support the transaxle's support.

33516

Speedy G

09-13-2014, 09:44 PM

Well it sounds like you made a decision. One of the difficult things about G50s is finding a good one. It sounds like you already did that, so that's one less thing on your plate.

Frank818

09-14-2014, 09:55 AM

Speedy, probably yes. Everything I check brings me back to that G50, so it must be an interesting option. Once I get the answer from the techies I'll see if I can modify the transaxle supporting bars.

Sure, I'd really love to get the gearbox heard here http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/volkswagen-global-rallycross-beetle-testing-2014-09-12, but I'll pass! :)
Of course, who on Earth would want a 544bhp 1.6 inline 4 engine getting to 60mph under 2sec? I just want the gearbox. :)

Speedy G

09-19-2014, 09:39 AM

Frank818

09-19-2014, 09:55 AM

Hi Frank, in my case the motor will be much shorter then even the wrx motor (about 15 inches and no gas tank), I'm wondering if a PBS tranny will fit. The PBS has something like 12 inches from flange to axel. That means moving the tranny forward about 6 inches. Do you see anything that could hinder the tranny moving forward 6 inches and keep the same axel positions?

None that I can think of, no red flag but a yellow flag for sure. It will probably be almost as tight as me, but should fit. Take very precise measurements to make sure.

Currently I know that a 19.5" long engine with a 8" bell housing to axle center will fit, though very tight on the rear tranny support tubes (vertical tubes) and a bit too much offset on the axles (from hub centers). Ideally you don't want that.

Overall that's 27.5". I can hardly see anyone fitting a drivetrain from front of engine to transaxle's axle centers more than 27.5" (without frame mods). You have to make precise measurements and if you think you come too close to that, quadruple your measurements and reduce your margin until you are spot on with the reality. You have to make sure. Besides, my 27.5" might be off by 0.5", it depends how much clearance can be achieved between the rear FW tubes (gas tank) and engine or if one wants to risk pushing back the axle centers more.

In your case, 12+15=27, so to me it's fine and you will probably have an axle offset around 2.5-3.5". Make sure of your 15"! I have seen the 12" on the PBS drawing, so I guess that one is right.

What are the other e818 installing? They don't have that length issue?

svanlare

09-23-2014, 10:20 PM

That totally sucks :(:(:( I was hoping that this would go together smooth for you.

Given the dimensions, seems like if you start by lining up the axels (pushing the engine forward, the big issue is what to do with the gas tank. Your idea of the boyd tank (ordered mine today) and using it in the reverse way from the rest of us seems like a good idea to get yourself some more room.

Frank818

09-24-2014, 07:46 AM

Tnx Steve, I was hoping the same! loll But I was also realistic knowing the worst could happen, since I am doing all the R&D on that stuff. So far I am in between, which isn't that bad.

I have a few options for the axles, I just don't know what trouble I would enter into if I modify all the tubes behind the gas tank, those are big and certainly very important. Boyd tank forward or front gas tank would be the only 2 options if I mod those big tubes. Time will tell, I believe I should know before the end of the first week of Nov. The custom G50 flywheel takes 3 weeks lead time.

Frank818

10-01-2014, 05:04 PM

For USD80 bucks I got my windshield installed and this is the small caps "h" trim Wayne was talking about.

On this side the h is reversed but on the driver's side it's like an h on the correct side.

34225

Frank818

10-07-2014, 07:55 PM

While I am waiting for my adapter plate to couple the gearbox with the engine, I found what appeared to be a new goal, smoking that go-kart. But after looking at the video, it's pointless, I think the guy has had enough of smoke already.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/watch-a-262bhp-go-kart-kill-tyres-for-fun-2014-10-07

Frank818

10-11-2014, 04:59 PM

GSS341 (Walbro-like) pump drops right in. Had to use a Porsche clamp in order to get rid of the thick screw on standard clamps which causes fitting issues. Had to cut the clamp slightly and now it's super easy to get in and out.

3452734528

Frank818

10-18-2014, 03:58 PM

My seat brackets solution. Will be welded on the frame. Fixed, no adjustment once installed. Only the back of the seat can tilt (electrically) to give the best angle for driving position.

347923479334794

RM1SepEx

10-18-2014, 06:03 PM

Frank, you need to practice more on your welding, penetration looks marginal, weld is "puddled" vs nice fish scale appearance of a good weld. Using a mig? Increase your power setting and adjust wire feed rate

Frank818

10-18-2014, 06:31 PM

Hey Dan, actually my mech did it with its welder, which looks like a mig according to the pix I've seen on google. I know f*ck all about welding. There is a very small needle and it makes a bright blue spot when he welds. I think I heard it was arc welding or something. It uses a huge cylinder tank, probably oxygen.

Are you saying the welds may break off?

Scargo

10-18-2014, 07:07 PM

Ouch. Except for diplomacy, he's correct. Those don't look particularly good. Looks like cold MIG. Poor penetration.
I don't like to show my welding. I have TIG. I am getting better after a 35 year hiatus. Steel should be relatively easy.

Frank818

10-18-2014, 07:24 PM

So, are we saying the welds may break off or it's just bad cuz it looks bad in a place where no one will see? Cuz looks doesn't mean bad quality. That's what I'm trying to understand here.
I don't think we will re-do the welds so they would look better to the eyes, but I will sure shout at my mech and force him to re-do them if there is a risk the welds may break off. :)

RM1SepEx

10-18-2014, 09:41 PM

I'd worry about it for a seat mounting in an accident. The only way to tell is to destruct a weld and see how it breaks. That's how my welding instructor did it in college

Big diff in strength with little penetration

Frank818

10-19-2014, 05:23 AM

Ok tnx guys, like I said you know what I know about welding, so if you are worried then I am too!
I'll take a hammer and hit hard on the brackets to see if they hold up. I guess if they do then it means I can trust the welds.

Or I buy my own mig, practice and weld them myself. I'll see how much that thing cost.

EDIT: Forget about the O2 tank, that's for the torch and has nothing to do with the welder. I thought they were connected together but no.

EDIT2: Do you think a 120v 130-150amps is enough for that type of bracket and for welding the same metal as the FFR frame?

EDIT3: Actually my question is more like what welder specs is ok for welding such metal? Voltage, amps, duty cycle, with regulator or not, etc. The good news is, the welders are on good sale at my local place! :)

RM1SepEx

10-19-2014, 07:09 AM

I've been using my Daytona mig 140 for 30 years, more than enough power for most work, heavy frame work I go to the tried and true Lincoln AC225 arc welder. Eastman has some nicely priced MIGs http://www.eastwood.com/mig135-welder-and-cart-kit.html?fee=5&fep=49638&srccode=ga220010&gclid=CjwKEAjwwo2iBRCurdSQy9y8xWcSJABrrLiSmHWLzZAc b9mktUiyA8Fk0ojPDH1eEpCf3KRG9DUEoxoClT7w_wcB just pick up a gas tank for the gas locally. Don't do flux wire, go with cover gas

MIG welding is easy, practice makes perfect.

Frank818

10-19-2014, 08:37 AM

Tnx Dan, I'll look around. Hopefully I can grind off my mech's welds and re-do them myself after some practice.
This kit car will definitely make me learn all the skills I've always been lacking. :)

Scargo

10-19-2014, 08:55 AM

What Dan said. There's one weld in particular that I can see that looks like poop. Like metal was pooped onto the surface. It should be ground back and redone, and any others like it.
MIG is easy to learn. You can MIG aluminum, too.
No 220v. handy? I can get 150 amps with 120v. and 200 amps with 240v. with my Miller DX 200 TIG. With that power I am supposed to be able to do 1/4" steel and aluminum. Agreed that 130~150 can do most anything steel on the car.

RM1SepEx

10-19-2014, 11:38 AM

My mig is 120 volts, 140 amp with limited duty cycle at that output. You need a special 20 amp 120 volt outlet. The std metal used by FFR on brackets and up to 3/16 I'd use the top power setting. The .063 or .065 tubing I'd do at position 3 around 110 amps

don't scrimp on cover gas turn it up to ensure coverage and get a smooth weld. Joint prep is essential to getting a good weld. Practice on scraps you will get a handle on it pretty quickly

Frank818

10-19-2014, 02:27 PM

RM1SepEx

10-19-2014, 06:32 PM

Frank, your numbers are incorrect lincoln data says 3/16 capability

Capable Performance
– Forgiving arc makes dialing in your
application easy.
– Smooth arc starts with minimal
spatter.
– Wide 30-140 amp welding
output range.
– MIG weld 24 gauge up to 3/16 in.
(4.8 mm) sheet metal in a single
pass. Weld up to 5/16 in. (7.9 mm)
steel using self-shielded Lincoln
Electric Innershield® (FCAW-S) wires.

Frank818

10-19-2014, 06:49 PM

Well Dan actually you tell me, but I read 5/16 with their electric shielded wire.

Either way 5/16 is too much, then is 1/8 enough or should I really aim for 3/16 even though the tubes are 0.035"?

metalmaker12

10-19-2014, 06:53 PM

Ok so reading this a 65amp or 80amp welder will not be sufficient? They can weld 1/8 or 20ga but you mention the FFR frame metal is 3/16?

EDIT: The 80amp welder at 50% rebate has 0.035" tubing for the biggest. Looks like that ain't gonna work?
Actually, even the one at 140amp doesn't have a tubing bigger than 0.035". So I guess these are crap? The 140amp is a Lincoln MIG-PAK 140. I thought Lincoln was a good one.

I think your referring to wire size bro. A miller or Lincoln 115 can weld up to 1/8 with 0.24-0.30 with mixed gas, or up to 3/16 with flux core 0.30. I personally would look at used a miller or Lincoln 180-220 for welding 3/16 wall stuff to get the penitration required for a strong weld. Here's my miller mig short arc 115 specs34832. I have a miller 180 mig short arc and a Lincoln power wave 300 mig pulse, and I use my buddies Lincoln 375 tig. I can ask around to see if anyone's selling a good welder for what you need, but shipping would be $$. Get a good welder, cheap ones don't work well for long and the good ones hold there valve. Miller Lincoln and Hobart are all very good from my experiences. You will need at least a 180 if you want to use a gas mix to weld the 3/16 wall stuff. You could use flex core but it welds like crap. Pm me if you have any questions, I weld 24/7 so I know what's up.

mikeb75

10-19-2014, 06:53 PM

Frank; everyone on the internet likes uninformed opinions -so here is mine!!

I've now used 2 welders: a $100 Harbor Freight flux0cre welder (http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-ac-120-volt-flux-cored-welder-61849.html) and a Lincoln 140 Weld Pak HD (not $100!! http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-Electric-Weld-Pak-140-HD-Wire-Feed-Welder-K2514-1/100670934?cm_sp=BazVoice-_-RLP-_-100670934-_-x). In both cases I was welding steel tubes with the same thickness as the 818 frame.

The Harbor Freight weighs very little; compared to the Lincoln that weighs probably 70 LBS; a lot heavier transformer in that unit.

The Harbor Freight unit got the job done, but I had to travel pretty slowly to make sure I got decent penetration. That isn't a bad thing for my first time welding; gave me a chance to work on my hand-work and technique.

The Lincoln blazed through the tube; moving at around the same travel speed as the HF (since that was my only experience) the welder dug pretty deep into the tubing.

I also welded some 1/8 plate with the Lincoln. Had to back the power down a step since it (I) was lighting up the plate metal rather quickly. Didn't get burn through; but the plate went cherry really fast.

Having read quite a few internet opinions; the HF welder actually does a good job -especially for the price. Yes; it's a flux core welder so there is the issue with slag and clean-up; but I felt like it did a pretty decent job putting my tubes into the frame. If you only plan to weld a very few things I think you could get away with an el-cheap-o welder like that just fine.

That said, I covet the Lincoln I played with. It seemed like a serious instrument; and MIG is pretty neat. Since I'd like to get good at welding I'm seriously considering picking up something like that myself. YMMV.

Frank818

10-19-2014, 07:17 PM

Tnx metal and Mike.

Yes metal, we know you weld 24/7, you learned how to in your dreams. :) lolll yes I will PM ya, I know so more than nothing about that that I want to make sure I get something sufficient, but not overkill, as to answer Mike, I only plan on welding for the 818, just a few things. BUT, I will want to weld stainless steel (intake and exhaust piping), which the HF at $100 doesn't do. And I don't think I can use a 220v plug as there are none available in the condo I live in, so I'm looking at 120v. But I'll PM ya metal.

RM1SepEx

10-19-2014, 08:51 PM

The Lincoln 140 will do 3/16 with std wire and a cover gas 5/16 with their flux covered wire
\
Capable Performance
– Forgiving arc makes dialing in your
application easy.
– Smooth arc starts with minimal
spatter.
– Wide 30-140 amp welding
output range.
– MIG weld 24 gauge up to 3/16 in.
(4.8 mm) sheet metal in a single
pass. Weld up to 5/16 in. (7.9 mm)
steel using self-shielded Lincoln
Electric Innershield® (FCAW-S) wires.

My 140 amp mig does 3/16 just fine and uses a std 20 amp 120v outlet (std outlet is 15 amps max)

Eastwood's mig should work fine, I'm sure the lincoln is a good unit.

http://www.eastwood.com/welders/mig-welders.html

If I were looking for one I would consider this:

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welders-175-amp-mig-welder-w-spool-gun.html

flynntuna

10-19-2014, 09:33 PM

Since we're talking welders, has anyone know anything about this new type of welder, the Multiplaz welder?

http://www.multiplaz.com/about

Frank818

10-20-2014, 07:10 AM

Wow,
This feature allows you to melt even thick 12 inch (300 mm) metal to the depth of up to 7/16 inch (10 mm), and it can weld up to 2". $2k. I'll pass. :)

I guess I'll go with the Lincoln 140, since it's at a rebate at my local store. 220v is not really a way to go for me for the few things I plan on welding, as my garage is a few garages away from the electrical room, which means I'd have to convince a few other owners in the condo block to let the electrician pass the 220v through their garages and into mine. Would cost less to buy that Multiplaz. I'm curious to see what others think of this one?

Mechie3

10-20-2014, 09:12 AM

I bought the Eastwood Tig 200. First one worked well then starting having an issue where it would shut off. Eastwood shipped me a new one and paid to return the old one no questions asked. No issues with the second one. For $800 it seems to work quite well. Have welded some steel and some aluminum. I'm a welding noob though.

D Clary

10-20-2014, 09:36 AM

I have 2 welders, an airco 200a mig and tig, and a small Lincoln 110. The Lincoln works vey well for maybe 3/16 and thinner. The weld on your set mount will not hold, you could break them off with a hammer. I would suggest finding a qualified welter to do the job. Your seat mounts are no place to learn.

K3LAG

10-20-2014, 08:58 PM

I have the new Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP on order. I should have it in the next week or two. If it's all it looks like, it is quite the nice option for home/hobby use. $999 does Stick, MIG, and TIG. Runs on 120 or 230. TIG torch is extra. Only potential downside is that it's DC only so no aluminum TIG.

Larry

Frank818

10-21-2014, 05:49 PM

Tnx a lot guys for the info. One of the most beautiful thing of this forum is how people share their experiences.

Turns out routing 220v in my garage (condo block) could have been achieved with a load miser on the hot water tank. But I didn't feel I needed to pay the extra for a 220v welder, especially that I am just starting.

So I bought a Lincoln MIG-Pack 140 which can, as they say, weld 1/4 on multi-pass. I've actually seen a pro welder on Da Toob doing it. I don't think I'll need more than 3/16 for tough things likes seat brackets and engine mounts, but I think my seat brackets are 1/4, gotta check. Waiting on my adjustable mask, on shipping.

I saved 200 bucks, on sale, and the shop will only charge my CC in EIGHTEEN MONTHS, without interests, no catch. My jobs will be done and I won't even have paid the welder, how nice.

Why does it seem people say Flux core welding is crap?
That guy welding 1/4 steel on both sides did it with flux core and used a press to break the weld or bend the steel, in case of the welding on both sides. So why would flux core not be good for seat brackets and engine mounts?

RM1SepEx

10-21-2014, 06:02 PM

Cover gas gives much nicer, stronger welds, the flux covered wire doesn't work as well and you can get voids and inclusions of contaminants in the welds, that makes them weaker. Your 140 amp max welder will give you capability for all but the heaviest materials that you will find at home. Mine Cebora 140 (Daytona Mig) is almost 30 years old and has seen many spools of wire and tanks of gas. Our old Lincoln 225 is over 40 years old! It's a great capability to have.

You will find that most of the FFR tubing is between .065 and .125 thick, I use my #3 power setting for that thickness range and vary wire feed rates, slower movement with more wire at the higher thicknesses. I find that more than a 20-25% duty cycle makes it unhappy. For 1/4 inch and above I have to use all 140 amps. I'm sure that you can find some online ref materials and videos to assist your learning curve. Get some junk metal and play with the orientation of the parts etc and you will be welding well in an afternoon.

Jaime

10-21-2014, 06:03 PM

I don't think anyone said flux wouldn't work, just that you can do more with gas. You can do multiple passes without a ton of cleaning and you can do aluminum with MIG. The complaints were about your penetration.

Here's the weld in question:
34920

Here's my best flux core weld:
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab273/jaime398/818%20Build/20140819_220330_zpsvdpf9q7e.jpg

Notice how yours looks like the weld bead is sitting on the metal, instead of sunk into it.

Frank818

10-21-2014, 06:27 PM

Yeah the Lincoln AC-225 which looks like a radio from the 40s or 50s. loll There was one for sale at the shop.

So I guess the flux core could be used for things that don't require a lot of strength, like ECU brackets, water cooler core brackets and little stuff like that. Seats and engine/tranny mounts are probably the most important welds.

There is a chart inside the door of the welder that tells you the speed and power to use for many types/thicknesses of metal, along with which gas or not to use. Should I trust and follow that chart or in the case of the 818 it's a little different? I can post a pic of it.

I heard that when welding you have to make small circles with the gun (tip of wire), instead of doing a straight line with your hand, and keep it about 1/2" over the metal you weld, is that true?

Jaime, what is that bracket used for?

Jaime

10-21-2014, 06:28 PM

Seat belt anchor. I have no doubt I can lift the car with that weld.

Frank818

10-21-2014, 06:31 PM

Oh good, you used flux core for the seat brackets. I need to practice and then see if I can make good penetration (in welding vocab loll) out of them, if not I scrap the weld and use with gas. I bet I will need to, as they are 1/4, which seem thicker than your brackets.

Jaime

10-21-2014, 06:32 PM

[QUOTE=Frank818;174782]I heard that when welding you have to make small circles with the gun (tip of wire), instead of doing a straight line with your hand, and keep it about 1/2" over the metal you weld, is that true?[QUOTE]

For a beginner, you always need to go slower than you think you do and you always need to be steadier than you are. Rather than circles, the guy that showed me said to make "C" shapes back and forth. Also, with flux, make sure to angle the gun toward the weld you just laid down. For MIG, angle the gun toward the un-welded metal.

Jaime

10-21-2014, 06:35 PM

BTW, I made a lot of bad welds too. It's important to recognize when they're bad and grind them off and start over. I also have a Harbor Freight welder, and every once in a while it decides to feed less than smoothly. That totally screws up the weld.

D Clary

10-21-2014, 06:57 PM

I found that the small welders come with a small spool of wire. That wire is so coiled up it doesn't feed well. I bought a large dia spool and it feeds much better. The 110 welders can be tricky if the feed draws to much and causes the temp to fluctuate.

metalmaker12

10-21-2014, 07:09 PM

When you first start stay in a spot for a second to build a puddle and than use a "j" weave ,back step or "c" technique with short arc mig. The large spools do feed better than the smaller ones, and lead to a more consistant outcome. Always practice on scrap material to get it running nice. Welding is about rytheme and being fluid and steedy in your movements. I will post some videos if I get time. In the meantime heres a great site to help you guys out:

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com

thall818

10-21-2014, 07:32 PM

Don't use flux core unless you just can't do gas. It's worth the time/money to set up with argon. Flux core is hateful. Just my opinion, I understand not all budgets allow for the extras.

flynntuna

10-21-2014, 07:44 PM

Metal, that's how I was taught, geez like some 30+ years ago when I worked in a local shipyard while going to college. They used stick welders exclusively in those days, though when I left they were training some with mig. I never had a compelling reason to buy a welder till now. Lol.

metalmaker12

10-21-2014, 08:11 PM

Flux core is garbage!!

flynntuna

10-21-2014, 08:53 PM

Isn't flux core used outdoors in windy situations were The shielding gas can't be protected ?
By the way frank, how's the build going?

MrDude_1

10-21-2014, 11:18 PM

Isn't flux core used outdoors in windy situations were The shielding gas can't be protected ?
By the way frank, how's the build going?
its not that flux core is any better outdoors it's just that when you're using gas you have to turn up very high in windy conditions. Not to mention when traveling it's easier not to deal with gas bottles. In any case no matter how your welding the idea is to not have oxygen in the weld. The weld needs to be shielded, and hot. That seat weld above has no penatration. It needs to be ground down and rewelded to be safe. A 60 grit flap wheel on an angle grinder is easy and neat if you need ideas. $15 total at harbor freight.

Frank818

10-22-2014, 11:48 AM

flynn, there's no hijack on my thread, no matter what happens on my thread it's always useful for me. Plus now that I start welding (as soon as I get my mask), it's right on the discussion. I need to see how others are welding, which will give me guidelines and many tricks before the final product.

[QUOTE=flynntuna;174813By the way frank, how's the build going?[/QUOTE]

Glad you asked, it's getting delayed by the poor welds my mech did and that I'll have to grind them down and restart. loll Seriously, KEP is supposed to ship me my adapter plate and other parts this week, so that we can bolt the gearbox onto the engine and test fit it in. Aside from that, since the car is at the shop I can only work 5h a week and we were working on the seats lately. My mech promised me to work on the car during the week, since last April, but he spent 0min on it so far when I am not at the shop. So the build progresses at only 5h a week out of 20-25h I could personally work, which means slow updates. I will tow the car back home in December and ditch my mech. I need full control over managing the building steps, otherwise he constantly pushes back my own tasks and it's stupid the way it is now. I have many small things done but almost nothing fully done, cuz I was waiting on him to finish what he has to do and he does nothing. Can't work like that, too much dependency on someone who has no interest (other than workload) on my build. And you know, building these things requires good vision of the build, steps, and space, you gotta think if every thing will fit before you actually fitted all the parts, cuz it's not like legos. :) Then you grind, adjust, go back one step cuz you forgot some cables would pass here, etc. Every things depend on other things. If I have to rely on my mech to do a lot of things all around the car, I can't finish anything and can't move on to other things that require this and that thing to be competed. I'll leave him install the engine and then I bring her back home.

Fuel tank installation, center console (newer model, in alu) and seat belts are my next 3 things after the engine is in.

BTW, do you guys think that Lincoln 140 can weld alu? The gas tank guy at the welding shop told me it can't cuz it's not powerful enough. I thought alu required less powerful welders, but maybe I understood wrong.

Frank818

10-22-2014, 11:50 AM

metal, "j" like this: jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj follow the line of the "j"s? Right, up, down, right, up, down, right, etc..

K3LAG

10-22-2014, 12:16 PM

With the addition of a SG-100 spool gun the MIG-Pak 140 is rated to weld aluminum up to 10 gauge. That will be pushing it for that machine though. The spool gun is about $200. You will also need a cylinder of Argon gas.

Larry

thall818

10-22-2014, 12:16 PM

It's kind of like a sewing machine. You are stitching the metal. I know guys that push the puddle and guys that pull the puddle. The back and forth motion heats each piece of metal that you are joining. Only heat one side and the weld won't hold.

Jaime

10-22-2014, 12:22 PM

I thought alu required less powerful welders, but maybe I understood wrong.
Aluminum melts at a lower temperature, but it carries heat away quickly. You need to feed in heat really quickly to get the weld area to stay hot. So, aluminum needs a much higher current welder than steel does. Also, aluminum wire is hard to feed, so you really want to use TIG(or a spool gun) on aluminum.

That's why I settled for a flux welder. For me, it was either cheap and barely good enough or get a TIG so I can do everything. The only thing I could do with MIG (that I care about) that I can't do with flux is stainless.

MrDude_1

10-22-2014, 12:28 PM

BTW, do you guys think that Lincoln 140 can weld alu? The gas tank guy at the welding shop told me it can't cuz it's not powerful enough. I thought alu required less powerful welders, but maybe I understood wrong.

I have the a larger Lincoln MIG but we use the same spool gun. It works ok, and while you'll be near all the way up, it can do it... HOWEVER there are some things to keep in mind. First you need the spool gun, wire and argon. They're not cheap.. the spool gun itself is large, and will not fit in tight areas. Its fine when you can position everything on the bench though. Overall, I would recommend a cheapie TIG setup over someone buying a new MIG spool gun... however it will work for most things we do.. you can weld up brackets and such. You will not be able to weld thick castings though... you just wont have enough power. The heat gets sucked away from the weld too fast.. So if you plan to weld some small stuff, and are willing to buy everything.. sure. If you need to plug or weld to castings, then you need more welder... so you might as well get a TIG.

Frank818

10-22-2014, 07:19 PM

You are all right. I checked the chart inside the welder's door and there is alu, 10ga, with spoolgun, 100 argon, max voltage and 75% wire feed, by pushing the gun.
If I really need to do alu, I'll check on my options. But SS that I need to, I have an exhaust and intake piping to build. Needs gas, otherwise it may oxyde the metal, I heard.

Frank818

11-01-2014, 03:37 PM

This is the MIG my mech used to poo on my seat brackets.

35293

220v, 150amps, wire feed 70% and 75% power. Not sure what he does wrong, but my guess is he doesn't move his hands when he welds. He just tacks/spot welds but long enough at the same spot to penetrate and then after that it makes a poo. Anyway that's his problem as mine will be to spend hours grinding that off and re-doing them. I don't know what I'll do for the engine mounts, he will weld on the frame, that's gonna be touchy to grind and re-do with the engine in place (I don't have what it takes to remove the engine at home).

G50 internals with the huge thick gear and comparison of both diffs before the bearings were transplanted to the LSD.
Everything is so huge and thick in that gearbox there's no way I can blow it off. Not surprising why a short 5-sp like this one weighs 156lbs.

352943529535296

The following will be of no interest to anyone not thinking about fitting a VR6.
So on the market there is exist serpentine belts with all accessories, some without the A/C, some without the power steering (PS) and some without both.
This one is the only one fitting on the VR6 that has no A/C and no PS. It's a Mitsubishi belt, NAPA #6PK1105. 6 ribs instead of 7 and slick on one side instead of ribs on both sides.

352973529835299

C.Plavan

11-01-2014, 04:25 PM

This is why I let my buddy weld the rear wing mount. He is so much better than me.
http://i.imgur.com/r7T7l8ul.png

Frank818

11-01-2014, 04:42 PM

Ha you changed the pic, you pasted yourself from the other thread and now it's your wing mount. :)

Yeah I saw your welds many times on your thread and I am jealous. lolll I'll have to learn this winter.

Frank818

11-04-2014, 09:01 PM

Got my KEP parts. Bolts, release bearing, 550hp street clutch and pressure plate (PP not pictured), flywheel (quite heavier than my current 12lbs flywheel), starter ring gear and of course, the most important part, the adapter plate in REVERSE configuration to fit a G50 to a VR6. So far all parts fit nicely, we just need to try the adapter plate on the VR6 and see. KEP did a magnificent job on the parts. They are known for that.

I believe this Saturday I should know if the drivetrain fits as expected, better or worse. It's quite a challenge fitting an engine not meant for the car, using a gearbox not meant for the engine and all that lego'ed together with an adapter plate cuz it's not bolt on. Hybrid everywhere.

I managed to minimize costs so far, no sunken ones, but still I am on expensive grounds no cover-up here.

354203542135422

Frank818

11-09-2014, 08:55 PM

A week has passed. As expected, my mechanic started to work on the transaxle at the LAST minute (could have started 7 weeks ago but no, my build is not important), so he just found out he's missing a bolt and the clutch release fork. Which I'll have to pay a lot to get the first one I find at no matter the cost and get it in 2 days. I hate that guy.

This is how the VR6 looks like when the complete transmission is removed. I cleaned up before installation after taking the pic.

35545

This is how it looks like with the piece of art adapter from KEP and street flywheel. Notice how close it's been cut on the top right corner. Everything fits perfectly, all the parts. This is a first for me in 20 years when I buy a kit of more than 1 full custom parts. Usually there is always something that doesn't fit well, or a wrong piece. But KEP really know what there's doing and I call tell it's not the first time they've done it on this combo.

35544

KEP pressure plate and clutch (not shown) Porsche Turbo Stage 1 (about 550hp) installed with starter ring gear. Notice the longer stud on the bottom of the 2nd pic. This goes for the starter. Which means the starter will be located at the bottom right (passenger's side) of the transmission, instead of upper left in normal Porsche configuration.

35546
35547

This is the missing release fork.

35548

Frank818

11-09-2014, 09:05 PM

I've been thinking about something related to oil catch cans.

Currently my oil evap goes directly into the intel after... oops, into the inLeT after the air filter and before the turbo inlet. Everyone on the net says that oil catch cans are good if too much oil gunk goes into the intake, which is not that good for the mechanical parts and the engine. But I couldn't find anyone mentioning about the fact the turbo would probably suck air from the oil evap and not just the air filter.

What I mean, is when the turbo sucks air, it probably sucks from any opening before the turbo inlet, right? So would it suck air from the tubing that comes from the engine evap? If yes, would it do any harm to the engine?

On my current setup, the oil gunk is nil as I found some oil drips before the turbo but after the turbo, anywhere, it's always super dry. So for that reason I don't need a catch can, but if there is harm for the turbo to suck air from the oil evap, then I may need a catch can that would not be connected to the turbo inlet, or no catch can and just reroute the oil evap somewhere.

Speedy G

11-09-2014, 10:51 PM

From what I remember, the block and head are pressurized by the intake manifold, so whatever is getting sucked into the intake duct has already been measured by the MAF. I'm not sure that the VR6 is the same as the 1.8t, but I'd bet it is. You still have a MAF btw?

Looking good on the tranny front. Everything looks pretty beefy. Did you weigh the whole assembly to see how much rotational mass you're going to have?

Frank818

11-10-2014, 08:08 AM

Hey SpeedyElectricPower! :)

That's true, the pressure that is in there has probably already taken into account so it would only recirculate that pressure, but is it? Instead of going into the cylinders it would go into the oil evap and back again in the turbo. Not sure how that works.

I do not use a MAF, I use a MAP, so my control totally depends on the pressure in the intake manif, no matter how much volume or speed the air flow has.

I wanted to weigh everything!!! But it takes time and some parts can't be handled by hand or hardly (engine, tranny). Since my mech has caused me 3 months delay already and he's got 1 month left before I get the car back home, it would have stupid of me to use that time to weigh the parts instead of fitting everything in. So I had to sacrifice that part of the build and let go. :( I will try to weigh the entire assembly together though, engine and tranny fitted. That might be possible without losing too much time. With my corner scales it's easy to weigh, now. :) Just takes time to fit things on the scales, but once everything is ready, just before bolting it in place in the engine bay I will try.

BTW, with that KEP adapter plate the OEM front engine mount bracket does not fit at all. Since I have removed the PS pump, we will try to use the PS alu bracket and fit the OEM mount bracket on it. More custom stuff and like I said, 1 month left and my mech is super slow. I hope he'll make it on time. I am so angry at him since last July, oh well. If there is one mistake I made about this project it's not trying to fit the VR6 in, it's having the car at my mech shop for the last 6.5 months. Should have been at my home. Anyway, can't go back.

The Porsche flywheel weighs a little more than my lightened Autotech flywheel. If I recall my VR6 flywheel was about 12lbs, I believe the Porsche is around 15-16lbs. Too late to weigh it alone, now, but like I said, I only care about having the engine in before I take the car back home. The rest has to be low priority, unfortunately. :(

Speedy G

11-10-2014, 10:16 AM

Yeah, if the air doesn't leave and just gets recirculated it's been accounted for. I figured you'd be using a MAP. If the MAP is after the PCV connection to the intake, you shouldn't have any issues.

The cool thing about your setup is just the gobs of torque that you'll be having, so I'd think the flywheel weight is secondary. You just need it to hold, which from the looks of it, it will.

I hope you can finish up before first snow... or is it snowing up there yet?

Speedy G

Frank818

11-10-2014, 10:29 AM

In my area I haven't seen snow yet, but in the 25km round there has been, which melted at the contact of tarmac. Still 11C tomorrow, but it's been around 4-5C lately and then 0-3C for the rest of the week. Temps always play yo-yo a lot in QC and winters suck. loll

My MAP is located directly on my intake manifold and my manifold is a log type (I think I have a pic of my engine in my first posts? I'll check), so basically you can say that my MAP gets its source maybe 3in before the intake runners on the head. Besides, I have no PCV valve, just the overflow nipple and connected directly to the turbo's inlet pipe through a short hose.

EDIT: Wow, no picture of my engine when it was in the Corrado. Well if it may help I'll post up one for ya tonight.

Frank818

11-25-2014, 09:13 PM

God damn... lost a full month cuz of my mechanic's bad decisions wrt tasks management and since he doesn't want to listen to me, I ended up in trouble again.

But, I am getting the car back home tomorrow. Gotta put an end to that ridiculous way of working and unnecessary lost time. More on that tomorrow night, there is a surprise I am not disclosing now.

In the meantime, we test fitted the VR6 in order to really see what needs to be modified and done to make that great engine fit into a frame that, I repeat, has really been designed to the H4 configuration's sizes and all unnecessary space has been reduced to its minimum, giving no chance to bolt-on something really different. I said "bolt-on". There is a chance, but you need to modify a lot of things.

The engine now sits tilted, cuz I need to cut the v-bar at the top to give clearance for the overflow.
35994

Why that? Cuz of this:
35996

Simply put, the adapter plate is too wide and sits lower than the transaxle, so we have to bring everything up in order to make the adapter go over the transverse bar. There was no way to know that before hand. Such a little detail which complicates the fitting of this non-std engine.

There is about 3-3.5 fat fingers (not mine) of space here, we will push the engine fwd so that about 1 finger remains. I will need to fab a firewall that will be bolted from the inside of the frame (just back of the tank) and not directly on the frame from inside the engine bay.
35995

Overall view and pardon the wires all over the place:
35997

Another view of the engine:
35998

And from behind, with the transaxle not centered. I admit the look will be cool though:
35999

This is when I torqued the spline/CV/stub inside the hub, that little lip crushes on the spindle and makes the wheel very hard to turn. It gets a bit better after you manually turn the wheel, but has anyone got that issue? Those are OEM parts! I have that issue on the 2 front wheels as well, but not the left rear, cuz the metal lip is non-existent:
3600036001

Really weird.

I figured out some other stuff for later:
- Intake piping will probably run down and back of the oil pan within the depression that you see on a pic and then up on the left side and into the cooler which will be bolted either on the left side tubes or on the transaxle, left rear.
- The water cooler tank will be fitted over the rear of the transaxle, like some here fit their VCP cooler.
- For that reason, no trunk will be fabed.
- The shifter cables will run on the left side, about at the height of crankshaft's center line. I need around 103" long cables.
- The coolant lines will all run on that same left side of the engine, apart from the coolant tubes along the sides of the car (door sides).
- The turbo's inlet is quite close to the right side fender scoop, it's possible I will simply bolt the filter right on the turbo and fab a deflector from the scoop (I always said an opened scoop is not that good unless you somehow redirect the flow where you really want it to) + put some heat shield panel on the other side of the filter so that the filter doesn't suck up hot air (my goal is cool everything like metal is doing, I am a freak of cooling things and keeping temps right on operation temps).
- I will have to re-route slightly the fuel line and FPR, as the FPR is fitted on the fuel rail right now but protrudes too much forward. Either I re-route and fix the FPR on a frame tube or something, or I change the fuel lines and FPR for those race type braided lines and AN fittings.

Now, question for BODY guys around: how much space is there between the v-bars on top of the engine bay and the double hump deck lid once this one is properly seated in place? Does the lid sit on the v-bars or a few inches over it? Is there any clearance or it sits flush, that's what I'm asking.

More on the surprise tomorrow night.

Frank818

11-26-2014, 01:44 PM

There you go. 7 months exactly, day for day, after I picked up the car from the Factory, it's now sitting in my garage. On Thanksgiving (for US people). What were the damn odds...

36033

Yes the garage floor will always stay that clean.
Oh where's the engine? That's the catch. No engine. I left it at the shop, cuz my mech obviously couldn't be ready for me to pick it up with the car. So the engine will stay there the whole winter, we will work on little things to do on the engine so that next spring when I go back to the shop, we will simply slide it in and connect everything around. And fab the engine mounts, of course.

The car is low, I know I have not adjusted ride height, but still I can touch the ground with my fingers through the center tunnel when I sit on the seat!

Now I look at it and... I don't know what's next! I don't know what to work on the car, that's weird. So much to do but I don't know where to start. I'll look at the manual to give me ideas and I guess tonight or later this week I'll start working on it.

Brando

11-26-2014, 02:32 PM

I'll look at the manual to give me ideas
Whaaat? I thought you didn't do that. ;)

Frank818

11-26-2014, 03:58 PM

True! I don't! :) I just want ideas on what to do next, but not how to do it. lolll

svanlare

11-26-2014, 04:29 PM

I could only wish my garage was that clean. Every time I clean some space something moves in to fill it.

congrats on getting it home.

wleehendrick

11-26-2014, 04:39 PM

There you go. 7 months exactly, day for day, after I picked up the car from the Factory, it's now sitting in my garage. On Thanksgiving (for US people). What were the damn odds...

Congrats, Frank... Home for the Holidays!

I'll be trailering mine home soon to finish up. I've been building in a friend's garage and know how much a pain it is to work on when it's not at home.

Frank818

11-26-2014, 07:49 PM

Yeah it's totally not the same game, after just an afternoon and evening I see a HUGE difference.

How far is your friend's? My mech's shop is at 20mins, but double that so I can come back, sometimes traffic, rain, you forget something home, come back, go back, or do nothing, come back, need to check on something on the car, takes 2sec, but it's 40mins back and forth... never ends. :)

Happy tnxgiving to all.

Speedy G

11-27-2014, 06:44 AM

Hey at least now you'll make some progress. You could finish up the wiring, front end, and interior. The interior you want to take your time with anyway.

Frank818

12-01-2014, 05:29 PM

Ok I have started using my Lincoln MIG140, Nolan has the same (if it's the 140).

I like welding, it's cool, the tictictictic, the sparkles, the odor is less. loll And it's totally resistance-less during the weld process, just like if you are moving your hand in the air.

Damn my welds look so bad!!!! lol

I have followed the recommended setups on the machine, I believe my voltage is fine if I check the metal color changing on the opposite side. But what am I doing wrong? Am I moving my hands too fast? Too wide movements? Too far away from the metal (more than 3/8)?

This is flux core, to practice and cuz that's what the mig recommends for 1/8. .035 wire, 25% wire speed, 100% voltage and my hand technique is O's, not C's, J's or other.
I don't wanna weld my shifter brackets like that. lol

Any comments, tips, causes, root causes, etc. very well appreciated! :) I totally need to greatly improve that skill, it's required.

36153361543615536156361573615836159

This is a rolling stool (not rolling STONE!) I built with only scrap parts. 0 cost and works very well. Plz laugh at it, it's ugly, but it's free! :)

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K3LAG

12-01-2014, 06:01 PM

It's hard to tell for sure but it looks like your metal wasn't clean. Be sure to use a wire brush and clean your metal well. If there is any oil or grease on it, but sure to remove that with a degreaser of some kind. It also looks like your travel speed may have been too high. Make sure you are seeing a nice puddle form before moving then keep your wire in the front edge of the puddle and maintain your stick out at about 3/8". If you are getting a lot of popping, check material cleanliness and your stick out may be too much. Concentrate on the puddle. Practice laying down some beads on flat material before working joints. Flux Core will be more messy than MIG or other gas shielded processes. You should be able to get a decent bead, but it won't be as pretty as gas shielded. You'll get it, keep practicing.

If you haven't checked out http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com I suggest you do.

Larry

metalmaker12

12-01-2014, 08:02 PM

Ditto, I second material looks like it had slag on it and you moved to fast. Establish a puddle and move forward. weldingtipsandtricks is very helpful site. If I get around to it I will post a video of using a small Lincoln, but with gas.

Frank818

12-02-2014, 08:00 AM

The metal pieces were in bad conditions, I ground them off, wire wheeled them as best as I could but it was probably not enough. Since I had no experience, I couldn't define the "use clean parts" sentence every tip tells us. Now I think by "clean" they mean 99%+ clean. I will try to wire brush them more.

Those are the only pieces in "ok" condition I could find around without paying for new metal. Hope I can working something out.

I'll change my technique too and will try loops (U's overlapped) instead.

RM1SepEx

12-02-2014, 09:07 AM

cut them smaller and the scraps will give you more surfaces to practice on. :o

D Clary

12-02-2014, 09:42 AM

Take a class at your local community college, more wrong than dirty metal.

C.Plavan

12-02-2014, 10:06 AM

Gas is your friend. Flux core is emergency only.

STiPWRD

12-02-2014, 10:38 AM

I've heard it's a good idea to keep a dedicated wire brush for each metal being welded (aluminum, steel, etc). If you're using a wire wheel to clean welded parts, it may embed contaminants into the metal from other things you've cleaned.

nkw8181

12-02-2014, 05:27 PM

As far as welding goes I'll default to these guys. They've said anything I could have only better.

Scargo

12-02-2014, 08:06 PM

I have done a lot of welding but I'm not an expert. I taught others to do TIG 35 years ago. Frankly, flux-core is news to me. I always did MIG (with gas).

I do not feel this is a contamination issue. I agree that you need dedicated wire brushes for welding. I use SS ones.
Flux wire welding is known to be messy. I read that wire feed for FCAW needs to be slower than MIG. Again, I do not know FCAW but slowing the feed and lowering the amperage and moving slower might be in order. Practice/experiment. I wish you the best.

Frank818

12-02-2014, 08:20 PM

Take a class at your local community college, more wrong than dirty metal.

Thought of it. But I prefer to see where I'm heading after some practice, tube videos and forum tips. I am not planning on welding many things but I might take a course if I plan on welding important stuff (engine mounts).

Gas is your friend. Flux core is emergency only.

I have to start with something for practice. I didn't want the hassle yet of gas to start with. Rent the bottle, pay to fill it, use it to practice, no more left, pay again to fill it, etc. It's possible to get something decent with flux, so I wanted to practice with that first and get the hang of the basics.

That being said, I think I got things better now. Of course my welds don't look that good, but I think they are solid enough to be called acceptable and that was my first step.

Dirty metal was probably the problem. I cleaned up manually with a wire brush and immediately I got better results. I admit I changed my technique and now am doing loops (overlapping U's). But boy that flux core is crap! Messy and messy and messy again. loll But I knew that before. Just practicing. :)

I watched a 25mins video of How NOT to weld and when the guy showed what was going on when you weld without gas (not flux core), I figured out the contaminants were my issue.

In here you see a tack I did and then 3 beads. Top to bottom, 50% volts, 75% and 100%, only 30% wire speed. Or was it 25. And from underneath, reverse order. I believe the middle one seems the best setup.

3617936180

And after cleaning the metal, my first corner weld practice at 75% volt:

36181

This one I think had a little too much voltage:

3618236183

And finally, I gave it a try on welding Wayne's shifter brackets. Welding upwards in this case. I did poke a small hole through the FFR tubing at one place, no pic cuz I wasn't proud of that one lolll, but I think I did 2 mistakes here, 1- I forgot to think that the FFR small tubing probably is thinner than the bracket's and 2- cuz of (1) I should have traveled more wire on the bracket and less on the tubing, or reduce voltage.

But I used a hammer and couldn't make the brackets to move. I think for brackets that won't hold a lot of force it's fine.

361843618536186

I like welding, it's fun. I'm am rotten cuz I start, but I like it. :)

nkw8181

12-03-2014, 01:01 PM

Frank I hadn't welded in a few years and after I got reacquainted with it I find myself looking for reasons to weld something :-)

Frank818

12-03-2014, 05:38 PM

RM1SepEx

12-03-2014, 07:58 PM

Frank, you are getting better! When you have 2 diff thicknesses you need to angle the weld twoards the thicker material and kind of sweep in and out over the thinner to avoid burn throughs... your welds already look better that the first ones that we saw before you bought your welder! :)

Try to practice off the car and get some experience at the different situations, looks like you are well on your way

you can fill in the hole, just turn the power down and generate small short arcs to avoid burning through again... do the edges, cool a bit, more edge, fill till center is filled

again practice is the answer and steel scraps are easy to find! I keep a pile of junk in the corner of my garage, you never know when you may need that 3/16 piece that is 2 inches square to make a bracket

I just had a friend use his new miller with a spool gun to weld my aluminum IC bracket, I have spool gun envy! I can't justify one tho when he only lives 3-4 miles away... new mig, add'l gas tank, spool gun aluminum wire $$$

metalmaker12

12-04-2014, 06:00 AM

I hear ya Nolan, I believe the same might happen to me at some point, so I better do things right.

In the meantime, here's my first Multi-pass Overhead lay-down-under-the-car weld. 3 passes. I still have issues judging when my welds have good or no good penetration, but I think this one isn't too bad. My biggest problem is I have the tendency to travel too fast.

36194
It looks like your not establishing a puddle and just jumping into it. Start with a little O get it red hot and than little backward c's right to left or forward c's left to right. Almost like a j weave works well with short arc. And use gas, it will hold up better.

Frank818

12-04-2014, 08:18 AM

Tnx for all the feedbacks.

Yeah Chris that's what I said and you just confirmed it, I think I travel way too fast and I start traveling way too early. I guess if I can get that better it should be a great step forward. Of course gas will help, it's my next step, once I feel I'm ready I'll get a gas tank. Soon enough!

Dan, I thought exactly that after I finished welding the shifter brackets. Doh! :) But I think I am on the right track and not regressing. I'll get more metal and practice and get a tank.

nkw8181

12-04-2014, 07:52 PM

Traveling fast is a good thing (on the track) but not so much for welds. Gas is also important unless your car is electric. My theory is you're thinking about driving the car when welding ;-) ;-)

Frank818

12-07-2014, 08:50 AM

Nolan... theory proven. :)

Well the past week has been a disassembly progress and not a build progress. Removed front rad frame with rad, removed steering column, unbolted steering rack, unbolted LCAs, removed gas pedal, removed shifter and console, removed gas tank... not much left hey?

Doing this cuz my mech did a few things wrong that I don't like so I am fixing, some previous installation I didn't like, some wrong configurations, some preparation for welding (welding done) and installing my Ez-Cool heat/sound insulation, solution to stiffen the gas pedal mount and some adjustments required on the column length due to shifter installation and bad adjustment on my reclining seat.

I failed to lengthen the steering column, the shaft doesn't pry at all and I should get a good 1" out of it to the minimum. I don't know what to do. Very disappointed. Maybe I'll have to buy another column. Those are the costs I hate the most in these projects....

Anyone fitted a telescopic column yet?

What are you guys doing with these holes on the FFR floor? Can I block them off? I don't want air and sound to enter the cockpit from the floor and I don't want dirt (or water if I get caught) to enter the gas tank area, neither the cockpit.

3629236293

wleehendrick

12-07-2014, 10:59 AM

Frank, I believe those are there to let fuel drain in case of a tank rupture or leak so it doesnt enter the passenger compartment. If you want, I guess you could rig a baffle underneath, but I wouldnt block them.

Frank818

12-07-2014, 09:04 PM

Oh yeah! Those fuel leaks. Good point! Tnx for that, I will keep them and cut holes in my ez-cool insulation.

Frank818

12-07-2014, 09:07 PM

Un-shorting the column

I made it! It required many hours of work, a lot of loud swears trying to tie up all this thing with only 2 hands without breaking anything on the column. A complex tie-down setup. And then a lot of force hammering on the U joint. I decided to use a wood block, soft enough to not dismantle the joint, yet hard enough to transfer the hammering power to the joint and pull that s*cker out.

Copy-paste is nice, but I won't paste the unintentional joke I made on the column thread in Steering section. :)
The column shaft might have been very tight within the column tube. I don't know. But it worked out.

I added almost 1-5/8" on the tube and a little more than 1" on the shaft. This way if I never need to add length, I won't need to hit on the tube. But that's the easy part anyway. I added a bit more so that if I need to adjust I will compress it a little again. Like longislandNYRangers said, it's a frickin lot easier to collapse than unshorten. Now the tube sits over the shaft. Not like OEM if I recall, but meh, it works.

The column also now sits on the bolt holes close to the sw, instead of those farther away up front. I found out too that these holes (farther ahead) are limiting movements cuz the nuts hit on the column's bracket.

Anyway, all that is sorted out now. But the short story is, yes, if you shorten it too much, you can unshorten it and it does not affect the column's behaviour (still turns no problem).

36336363373633836339

Oh I made a little mod to my rolling stool! :)

36340

Frank818

12-08-2014, 06:02 PM

Parking brake problem.

After seeing what others did or had, since my shifter is further back I thought I'd have issues with the OEM 2003 ugly ebrake handle.
So I mocked it up. Shifter and ebrake, OEM. It's close but it doesn't annoy my shifting at all. In fact I plan on mounting the handle under the small tunnel tubing (about 1/2-3/4" lower than FFR), instead of over it, just to make the handle lower and have a slicker look. The handle is 10.5" long, which is almost the same as the "short" Lokar, so it should fit cuz the Lokar fits pretty well (length wise).

But that's not my problem! My problem is I still can't bolt/mount the cables in place.

First of, the FFR handle bracket I don't have it or lost it. Second, I don't need it, I got flat steel/alu plates I can use. Third, I have some brackets which I don't undertand what they are, I think they are cable brackets. But they don't fit my cables. And if you look at the pictures below, you can see what I mean. I don't have the nice OEM brackets the guy is playing with, I only got the ones showed by the other arrow. And if you look at the cables, I need to grab those round metal pieces but I only got those small flat clips on the other end, for one is crimped in place.

3636136362

Should I go at the local dealer to buy those brackets?

If they can't be bought, I have a few ideas of how I could mount them, like taking a small rectangle alu plate and bending it into a U shape, then bolting both ends to the FFR rear cover. Can't tell if they'll be well aligned, though.

Jaime

12-08-2014, 06:08 PM

Those are the door stops.

Frank818

12-08-2014, 06:16 PM

Far from ebrake brackets. They should mark every single part, the bag wasn't marked either. Something went wrong in my parts list check-up, as I can't find those 2 parts :

80347 E-BRAKE HANDLE MOUNT EA 1.00
80373 E-BRAKE CABLE MOUNT EA 1.00

Anyone has a 02-04 donor and used those 2 parts? I would like a pic of the 80373, that might help me.

Frank818

12-09-2014, 08:12 AM

Updates on the ebrake installation.

I went off to the local Subaru dealer and ordered the 2-piece cable mount brackets. Listen, those are 3 bucks total (CAD, even less in USD!) and the dealer is 8mins away by car. That dealer has been very useful to me up to date, they found every parts I was looking for within seconds. No more stress about that OEM cable mount. Believe it or not, I kept the nuts! But not the bracket... Doh!

Now I need to figure out what the above FFR parts are and if I really need them. I'll shoot Joe a mail and ask for a picture, but at least I will have the OEM brackets and worst case I can fab up my own FFR-like bracket to replace the missing one (80373).

And finally I need to find a boot and bezel. I think FFR supplied a bezel, I have to check. For the boot, I couldn't find a universal ebrake boot so I might try some from another car (don't know which one) or buy some fabric by the yard (much cheaper) and wrap it up around the handle myself.

What you guys with a 02-04 donor did for the boot?

Tamra

12-09-2014, 09:23 AM

In this post, (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16454-FFR-charging-premium-for-RHD-but-not-yet-100-providing-a-true-RHD-chassis!)they mentioned that Joe no longer works at FFR, and his emails are not being forwarded to anyone. You might want to try someone else.

ehansen007

12-09-2014, 11:16 AM

Yeah, Tony or Dan would be your best bet. I know they have another new guy too but can't remember his name. Best of luck. Looks good Frank!

Frank818

12-09-2014, 12:22 PM

I took my mail from Joe and sent it to Dan. I did not read the RHD thread yet (now yes), so I didn't know about Joe, good thing you mentioned, as I would have waited without knowing.

Still, Joe was awesome. If he's reading this, well Joe we all had a lot of fun with you, so keep it up wherever you are now!

nkw8181

12-09-2014, 05:01 PM

Frank you use the donor shifter boot on the ebrake and ffr supplies one for the shifter. I think the ebrake mount is a thin piece of metal used with a clip nut to mount the ebrake in the stock config.

Frank818

12-09-2014, 08:34 PM

The donor shifter boot is gone since last winter. :( I am stupid. :(

The one FFR supplied has a very weird angled base, like a distorted hexagone or something with none of the side the same length. Maybe I could cut the base, get rid of the metal pins making the base solid, use what's left and enlarge the hole (meant for a shifter rod, not an ebrake). That's an option, yes! I have a few options now, so I won't be concerned any more about that. :)

Frank818

12-10-2014, 12:43 PM

Got a reply from FFR. Jay is catching up on Joe's emails. A lot have happened since Oct 31st that caused them to lag on replies, some personnel changes and SEMA and etc.

Of course, don't send to Joe's email, but chances are if you already did, you may get a reply sooner or later.

Jay took a sheet of paper, wrote down the 2 part numbers of the ebrake setup and took a picture.

36477

The ebrake cable mount is actually the mirror finish rear tunnel cover that goes over all the wires/cables and block of that big hole in the rear firewall panels. I have that one. I thought there was a bracket to attach the cables together used in conjunction with the OEM cable brackets. So I should be good!!!
The small ebrake mount, it was the one I thought it was and I lost it. But it's the easiest part in the world to replicate, so no issues.

Frank818

12-10-2014, 08:54 PM

Mounted my stiffer solution for the accel pedal. It's not the stiffest, nor the softest, it's in between. It doesn't bend except slightly if I press hard when the pedal is hitting the clutch tube. But I will fit a stopper at the bottom of the pedal and it won't be against the FW, so I'll be ok.

Recognize that black plate? It's the FFR accel pedal mount that no one uses! I painted it and bent each side so that it fits SNUG between the 2 frame tubes. The width is perfect between the 2 holes on the OEM pedal. Then I put some silicone and rivet it twice on each side. The reason why I get a slight bend when the pedal is pushed to the max is cuz this plate is too thin and bends a very little. But like I said, stopper will prevent that. Don't mind the plate masking part of the hole in the FW, I won't be using that hole anyway and will plug it.

36437

Frank818

12-14-2014, 09:42 AM

Frank818

12-14-2014, 09:48 AM

Seat belts sort of installed. I don't have my M12 bolts for the anchor points each sides of the seats, but everything is ready!

I have drilled a 7/16 hole for the M12 bolts of the reels, then drilled and cut the little rectangular hole at the top so the small tip/support on the reel can fit somewhere and keep the reel aligned.

I however had to grind a little bit the passenger reel's bracket as it was hitting at the bottom of the FFR alu panel.

When the under seat alu panel will be fitted, I will bolt the buckle's bolts in and through the under seat panel. I will buy rust protected bolts/nuts.

3649336494364953649636497

Frank818

12-15-2014, 08:22 AM

Ordered a bunch of fasteners yesterday.

1
98093A885 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Class 10.9 Steel Flange Head Cap Screw M16 Thread, 2mm Pitch, 60mm Long

2
91005A039 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
2 Each
Metric Black-oxide Steel Flange Hex Nut M16 Screw Size, 2mm Pitch, 24mm W, 21mm H O'all

3
92125A244 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Type 18-8 Ss Flat-head Socket Cap Screw M6 Size, 30mm Length, 1.00mm Pitch

4
94205A250 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Metric Type 316 Ss Nylon-insert Hex Locknut M6 Size, 1mm Pitch, 10mm Width, 6mm Height

5
90585A542 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
4 Packs
Type 316 Ss Flat-head Socket Cap Screw 1/4"-20 Thread, 1" Long

6
91831A029 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
18-8 Stainless Steel Nylon-insert Hex Locknut 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 7/16" Width, 5/16" Height

7
94036A861 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Class 8.8 Steel Flange Head Cap Screw M12x1.75 Thread, 60mm Long

8
92461A600 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Class 8 Steel Nylon-insert Hex Flange Locknut Znc-pltd, M12 Size, 1.75mm Pitch, 18mm W, 16.1mm H

9
94036A845 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Class 8.8 Steel Flange Head Cap Screw M12x1.75 Thread, 45mm Long

10
94020A335 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
4 Packs
Aluminum Heavy-duty Rivet Nut 10-32 Internal Thread, .020"-.130" Material Thk

11
97763A341 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
2 Packs
Black-oxide 18-8 Ss Button-head Cap Screw 10-32 Thread, 3/4" Long

12
95229A380 (http://www.mcmaster.com/OrdHist/OrdHist.aspx?reloaddefltresults=true#)
1 Pack
Mil Spec. Cadmium-plated Steel Flat Washer Number 10 Screw Size, Nas-1149-f0363p, 0.203" Id

Frank818

12-15-2014, 01:09 PM

Pearldrummer7

12-15-2014, 04:22 PM

Tamra

12-15-2014, 10:46 PM

The steering rack bracket tends to bend at 3 places when you bolt it on, so I removed it, unbent it, painted it again and put it back, using 2 washers between the bracket and the bracket welded on the chassis. Turned out it worked perfectly.

3649136492

We did this exact same thing yesterday to fix our steering rack issue. The washers worked flawlessly, our steering rack is now straight, and it snugs up without any bending of the bracket (or risk of damaging the steering column).

metalmaker12

12-16-2014, 07:05 AM

How about I oreder them and send them to you. We can use paypal for our transaction. Just an idea bro

Frank818

12-16-2014, 07:51 AM

Ugh, that's the worst way to have a delay! Any chance they'll do it with a little extra shipping cost if you call?

Order them to my place and swing by! I'm just across the pond (Oswego, NY...prolly 4 hours from you)

How about I oreder them and send them to you. We can use paypal for our transaction. Just an idea bro

Hey tnx a lot guys! I actually spent 2h late afternoon yesterday searching on other websites and turned out that Fastenal.com has stores everywhere and when I entered my location, they matched a store... in Canada... in QC... 10mins away from home. I thought there was a mistake, as we have nothing in Canada related to cars (fasteners are not related just for cars, though) and all the good stuff is in USA, but no it's real, there is a store here that I can pick-up the fasteners from and order online (from US).

They are reviewing my order and I should be contacted soon and all the fasteners should be ready within 7 days (the washers weren't available in less than 3).

But if that doesn't work, I'll keep your options in mind, I appreciate a lot the offer.

For those interested in buying fasteners online, McMaster has a better website than Fastenal, easier to search, results are shown better for faster reading, I think they have more products and they have 3D solidworks charts, which helps a lot. Prices are higher on Fastenal, even though I can order 1 item instead of only packs of 10, 25, 50, etc. But Fastenal will save me a lot in shipping since it's nearby and I won't be stuck with 98 bolts of same type when I only need 2.

In the meantime I'll try to fit super temporarily the parts, with tie-wraps, vise grips, incorrect bolts, etc. So that I can move on what's after.

We did this exact same thing yesterday to fix our steering rack issue. The washers worked flawlessly, our steering rack is now straight, and it snugs up without any bending of the bracket (or risk of damaging the steering column).

Yes absolutely, just need to find the right washer thickness and it fits perfect. It was all bent before, bolt holes and the U curve of the bracket was bent towards passenger's side. Now it's all perfect and so easy to do it right.

Frank818

12-19-2014, 08:15 PM

Rad fan installed, 14". I tested it, when it kicks in, it makes a cyborg-techno sound. lolll It's cool. Not too loud either and pulls pretty good, certainly sufficient for a bigger than OEM rad (my VR6 used a smaller one) with a lot more air flow up front, a lot more coolant and a lot more piping to allow the coolant to cool.
Pretty easy to install. Fully waterproof. Today's fans are much better fabed than 20+yo ones.

36635

My left side floor has a bubble which cuts a good half-3/4 of an inch in height. I had to cut the tunnel cover in that area so it can sit lower. I do not have the final product pic yet. That tunnel cover has been modified 100+ times, every frickin corner and tab out of it has been trimmed.

36638

Frank818

12-19-2014, 08:19 PM

Questions for you knowledgeable people.

What is that standard type connector plug called? 2-pin, 90-deg apart (they make an L inside). It's on the rad fan.

36636

What have you worked out to install the dash on its brackets? On the left side I am fine, the dash rubs on the bracket so it's tight enough for the bolt, but on the right side I have a HUGE gap, inches apart. The dash looks levelled, though I have not used any measures other than my eyes.

36637

Frank818

12-22-2014, 08:07 PM

Well finally! After 16h of work in 3 days, the ebrake is installed. I still need to do the finish and adjust the tension, but mechanically it works and this is where it's gonna fit. I will remove or change the handle cover, though. Fitted it as low and as rearwards as I could so it wouldn't interfere with anything else and would not take the show over the shifter.

I bent myself two 1/8" steel brackets, one of which sits lower (rear) than the other, cuz the ebrake rear mount is lower.
I went through everything in this ordeal, it's been the most challenging installation yet. I had a lot, I mean a lot, of trimming to do on the tunnel cover (you wouldn't recognize it) and rear tunnel cover (the cable cover), I did a few mistakes which required guess what? Right on, more trimming to hide the mistakes. Bent the 2 brackets using a ****ty clamp-on vice, believe it or not! This is why I had to do a weird curve on the front bracket, cuz the vice was too small and there was only 1 way I could hammer on the steel flat without throwing the damn vice on the floor. Now I installed myself a real vice, bolted. But too late for those 2 brackets. Then I welded the brackets in place. 25% wire and 75% voltage did the trick no problem! I am currently grinding the protruding parts of the brackets and the welds (to smooth them out) with a 12A 5" angle grinder and nothing moves, so it's rock solid. Notice the rear bracket is angled, that is normal, the rear mount had a slight angle which I tried to reproduce.

I am using 5/16 bolts and lock-nuts to secure the handle in place, fits like a condom.

The dash, center console, tunnel cover, shifter, tunnel rear cover and ebrake, are the parts I have installed, removed and re-installed the most in my life. Maybe 20+ times each in average.

36714367153671636717

So nobody knows about that gap between the bottom of the dash and its mounts (see previous post)?

nkw8181

12-22-2014, 10:14 PM

Question? How are your shifter cables ran? That was part of my frustration. Do you have a path for them? Mine wanted to go about where you have components. You may have already accounted for this but if not better to know now.

Frank818

12-23-2014, 08:09 AM

Question? How are your shifter cables ran?

That is the right question indeed, Nolan. The answer is extremely simple: it's part of my mistakes! lolll

When I started the design (if you call that a design) I thought about the stiff race burgundy cables, then I forgot and moved on. When I re-thought about them, it was too late.

This morning I mocked them up. They cannot go under the handle for sure (BTW the handle is 1" lower than the upper frame tubes), the quick bend down and sharp up turn right after to go over the tank is too much asking for these cables.
The other possibility is to sneak them on the sides, over the handle brackets, just over the handle bosses and along the tunnel upper frame tubes. I was 5mins short this morning to test this, believe it or not I had to go to some place called "work"?!!????! lolll

My guess is it's gonna fit very tight, but what doesn't on that car anyway. I should make it tonight, I'll take pix of this as I know it's an important routing.

Now (or then after I route the cables), I have to figure out how to bolt the cable ends onto the shifter. I'll check on the k-tuned thread, I just hope I am not missing parts.

Frank818

12-23-2014, 08:06 PM

Nolan, as promised, here's how my cables will (they better) route:

36771

Not as tight as I thought, but still is. I will attach them to the upper frame tubes and they should not move.

Frank (PearlJam) and Chris (metalBruins), I got my fasteners on Monday, maybe it would have cost me less going through either of you, but it's too hard to say.

On the other hand, those 10-32 low-profile alu rivnuts are AWESOME!!!! They are so easy to work with and crush! I think I will use that solution in many places. 100 of them, tnx to Dan on the number and tnx to a few others on the 10-32 size! Drill 19/64 holes, but 5/16 also works.

36772

Now I got all the fasteners I need to finish that thing. Until I find out I need some other fasteners, who knows...

Gary Livingston

12-24-2014, 01:14 PM

My order has been rejected.

Outside USA, if you are not a business, McMaster will not ship.
I spent almost 2 weeks looking for fasteners and I read all their shipping stuff and now they say no. Chances are I will not find all these fasteners elsewhere, so I have to start all over, somewhere else and look for replacements for those I can't find.

Don't mind, but I do start of mind of the delays, though. I need many of these fasteners in order to install my parts and move on the other parts that require these to be fitted. Oh well, there was I could.
Hey Frank. Try Spaenaur. I've never had anything shipped from them, because there is a store near me, but I imagine they do. They probably have more fasteners than Mcmaster does. . . . not to mention all kinds of automotive stuff. . . you can't find elsewhere.

Cheers,
Gary

Frank818

12-24-2014, 08:44 PM

Hey Gary, yes I heard about them, but their website is crap (like most canadian websites), you can't buy online and you can't even search for parts. I agree if I knew exactly what I needed I could just call them. But I had a lot of different options possible, so telling everything over the phone, taking time to think, etc., it wouldn't be practical. I really need to look around and decide what I needed. That's why I went with Fastenal. But they don't have everything, granted. Maybe I just don't know how it works with Spaenaur. How do you work it out?

Frank818

12-24-2014, 08:54 PM

X-Mas eve... who cares, I burnt 10h15mins of human fuel today. Installed some guides for the shifter cables (no pic), took maybe 30-45mins, which leaves a good 9h30mins just to fit the cockpit rear lower/upper fw! Drill, test fit, drill, test fit, mistake, grind, test fit (repeat 10 times loll), drill, screw, test fit, mistake, etc..... And I had to grind the sides as it was too wide and was hitting on the seat belt alu panels cover + the rivets. But, it now fits! No pic. The middle fasteners bolting the lower fw with upper fw I used those nice 10-32 rivnuts with 10-32 button head screws. The top on the frame tube I used FFR's 1/4-20 rivnuts with 1/4-20 buttons head screws.

Very early this morning when I started my day, I found out that one of the boss on the ebrake cracked in 3-4 places!!!

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It's a hard steel, but I guess it didn't survive my hammer treatment when I straighten the tab (it's at an angle from OEM, you can see that in the FFR manual too).
I was really stunned. But I immediately thought of a solution! Guess what I did to it?

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That's right! Welding is my friend, I am so happy I started welding, now, this Lincoln machine is really handy. Get the right voltage and wire speed and it fills up the cracks so nicely. Good as new!

And at the same time, I found out that the bolts and nuts that came with my 1st version of the K-Tuned shifter fit PERFECLTY through the handbrake's holes! So instead of using my other bolts, I prefer to use these:

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I call that "recycling".
BTW, this is one hell of a great close-up pic for a cell phone, reminds of Jeff's awesome close-up pix with his million-dollar camera. I think it's my best close-up so far.

And these are my M16x60 for the top bolt spindle. Pretty big, torque them to 120lbs.

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