Frank818 -1993 VW VR6 Turbo donor- Build Thread

[Frank818]

Happy Holidays and Boxing Day!

Happy 818 day for me, as this is the only thing that matters in my life since I got the car home (end of Nov). Gotta catch up 4 months of lost time at my mechanic's, which is why I start working around 5 in the morning every day (even when I work at my normal job).

Xmas day was sadly short (818-wise, that is lolll), a bit over 5h of work. Today a bit less than 8h, but I finalized my seat belts locations:

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I haven't seen many people post pix of their seat belts installation. Either I missed them all, or people find that so easy that they don't take pix. It wasn't that easy for me, well, average, was pretty long for just that, but the thinking for the solution was average and making it happen wasn't that hard.
Note that on the first pix this is the passenger belt, which I used 2 washers on the inside of the car to clear up the alu panel, but I changed mind and I will do it like on the driver's side, without any washers and enlarge the rectangular hole. Fits snug, perfect.

The bolt hole on the metal OEM bracket is too high for the 1.5" tubing, so on one side I welded 2 layers of 1/8 steel that I cut quickly and welded quickly (passenger side is always where I test my solutions, even though I would not want my passenger to die or get injured due to my "testing").
On the driver's side the hole was drilled a tidy lower, so a 1/8+3/16 thick steel plates cut and welded together did the job perfectly. I love my 12A 5" angle grinder/cut-off wheel.

The welds are not that great, but they hold up, the hammer couldn't break them at all. I am sooo happy I have the tools to weld, I can't imagine how I could finish up that car without welding. And it's cool to weld. So cool that the rag I used to cover the nylon belt from hot spatters caught slightly on fire. A nice tap on it stopped everything. Gotta stay alert! lolll

I changed the bolts, for longer ones (M12x50 for the buckle and M12x60 for the reel and door-side anchor brackets. Curiously, M12s are JUST bigger than OEM (WTH are they using then?), so I had to drill out all my holes using I think 15/32 bit if I recall) and higher grade too. Didn't need higher grade, but it wasn't pricey.



The below is my under seat panel marked down before drilling. I will fit it with nice 10-32 rivnuts, cuz I need to remove it ALL if I ever need to remove my seats, to gain proper access. There's a lot of holes to drill, it's hard on the arms when the car sits on jack stands (Rasmus, who disappeared again, said the same thing). I have now started drilling some holes in 1/8 but I need to step drill them up to 5/16 for rivnuts (bolts are 3/16 holes in the panel). Then same fun with the under tray battery panel. lolll

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My next steps after these, I have to install the dash so I can finish up the entire length from the rear cockpit FW to dash, going through ebrake cable mount, tunnel cover and center console. Still trying to figure out why I have a huge gap for the dash mount on the passenger's side and how to fix it.
Then I have to install my cluster, which is squared and smaller than Subaru's. After that it's the under carpeting/carpeting and sound deadening, then steering rack spacers, then AWIC installation with coolant tubes and then wiring and body. Not far from something complete (minus the engine of course and finishing details).

[Lumpyguy]

Looking good, I really like the garage floor! I would distroy that floor! LOL

I have been fighting the urge to be in the garage fo 8-10hrs a day during the holidays but I need to spend some time with the family as it is the holidays and I travel alot for work.

I have ordered my seats and belts and need to weld and fab for seat mounts and belt mounts.

Cheers

[Pearldrummer7]

Nice way to do seat belt mounts! The under seat aluminum was exhausting if you ask me. Definitely glad that's out of the way. I'm gonna try super hard to never have to remove it.

[nkw8181]

Man things are looking good.! I step away for a bit and look what you get done. So fyi I do have my seat belt mounts detailed out if you want to compare. One question it looks like part of your brackets hang below the frame. What will you do to protect them from scraping?

[Frank818]

I have been fighting the urge to be in the garage fo 8-10hrs a day during the holidays but I need to spend some time with the family as it is the holidays and I travel alot for work.

I have that luck this year. Well, I created my own luck, organized stuff so that I could do it and it makes a difference, I see stuff moving every day at a good pace, it keeps my mind in peace. loll



The under seat aluminum was exhausting if you ask me. Definitely glad that's out of the way. I'm gonna try super hard to never have to remove it.

Finished it late yesterday, I think I spent 9-10h just on that. I need it to be removable, so I am using 46x 10-32 bolts/rivnuts. Yup, 46 of them, I am glad I followed Dan's advice and bought bolts in packs of 100, I think I will need to order even more.

For those who didn't yet fit the under seat, it takes a while to get every thing aligned if you don't use help (I didn't) or some kind of wise setup (raise with a jack, use vice grips, hammer on the edge to push the panel and make it flush/aligned, etc.). Then for me it was a pain cuz I needed to step drill 3 times, 1/8, then 3/16 for the bolts and then 15/32 on the frame only for the rivnuts. Since I am lied down (laid down? lay down? lie down? I always screw this one up :)) under the car, I spent 2 days on the floor on my back, tnx to my tiles which are more comfortable than concrete. This position does not give me full play and distance, I have to drill at an angle without looking exactly in line with the hole. Therefore over half of the bolt holes on the alu were a bit off, or the ones on the frame were off, which means I had to reinstall the panel and drill bigger holes in the alu. Install bolt, remove, drill, reinstall to test, etc. I didn't want to remove the panel to drill, so I removed some bolts to bend the panel and drill using my fingers as a support. Sometimes I found myself installing or removing the panel holding it in place with my knees and feet while I was lied down on my back and installing or removing bolts. lolll Couple of shoulder and triceps pain, but it's better today. This thing better hold up, cuz I am NOT drilling another one again. :)



Man things are looking good.! I step away for a bit and look what you get done.

Tnx, though actually it's weird, cuz if I look at the car right now, nothing but the suspension is installed. But it's true I do have a lot of parts that are "ready" for installation, but I can't install them cuz I need to test fit and fab the other parts which require me to install and uninstall many of the "ready to install" parts. It's weird. Maybe I am not doing it the right way, but I do know that almost every part I fit, I fit it differently than FFR, so I never know what's coming up! I need a lot of flexibility, so nothing is installed permanently yet. It will very fast once my parts are all ready, though.


So fyi I do have my seat belt mounts detailed out if you want to compare. One question it looks like part of your brackets hang below the frame. What will you do to protect them from scraping?

I'll check that out on your thread.
For the question, good point, I thought about that cuz they protrude more than the thickness of the bracket it's now going to be more of a problem than I thought. I may try to bend a little the FB side panel so it would sit under the bracket. I'll have to test a few things, but for now it's exposed totally. Worst case of all, I cut the bottom of the OEM bracket, rotate it slightly towards the front so that it would follow the line of the belt. I believe that would be the best solution, which means I welded these things for nothing. lolll For practice, I did. :)

How important actually is that little lip at the bottom?

[nkw8181]

I'm using NRG 6 point harnesses so we might have some differences there.

[Pearldrummer7]

Sometimes I found myself installing or removing the panel holding it in place with my knees and feet while I was lied down on my back and installing or removing bolts. lolll Couple of shoulder and triceps pain, but it's better today.


YUP. I know that feeling haha

[Gary Livingston]

Hey Gary, yes I heard about them, but their website is crap (like most canadian websites), you can't buy online and you can't even search for parts. I agree if I knew exactly what I needed I could just call them. But I had a lot of different options possible, so telling everything over the phone, taking time to think, etc., it wouldn't be practical. I really need to look around and decide what I needed. That's why I went with Fastenal. But they don't have everything, granted. Maybe I just don't know how it works with Spaenaur. How do you work it out?
Hey Frank,
looks like they have a new website coming. . . but, you can access their catalog and search http://www.spaenaur.com/catalog/ or download the whole thing if you want. They do have a toll free number for ordering also. http://www.spaenaur.com/contact.asp

If you need help finding something, I can probably help since they are in Kitchener about 15 minutes from my house. They have much more than fastenal for specialty fasteners, but of course not as accessible for most ppl.

[Hindsight]

Belt mounts look good... they are oriented the right way. I'm jealous that you bought a welder and are learning to weld. That's way high up on my want list, but my tool expenditure has been out of control. Keep up the good work!

[nkw8181]

My tool want list seems to never stop growing. I'd love to learn to tig , want a plasma cutter..... Ohhh ohhhh and a 5 axis cnc �� proof that we never really grow up lol

[Frank818]

Gary, tnx for the info, it does improve yes. :)

----

Tell ya what, the welder is I think the best tool I purchased for that project. And I bought quite some. But then again, remember I have a lot of little fabs to do here and there, but obviously that's personal to everyone. In my case, since most FFR brackets are not 100% fitting my requirements due to the engine, cluster, shifter, ebrake, seats, full exhaust and full intake, etc., I have a lot of welding to do, much more than I thought! And I love that Lincoln!

A plasma cutter would have been and would be very helpful, but I can live with my wheel cutter. :)

[Frank818]

More updates.

I woke up at 4h30 to start working on the car (usual hour or so), I felt pretty good so I was expecting a good day. :) Then when I started to brush my teeth, instead of using the toothpaste tube, I used the Polysporin tube. I was fortunate enough to see it just before. Then I said "ok, what kind of day is that going to be?"

Well let's find out.

Mostly it was a thinking day.

First, I set up something quickly to fill up 20 litres (5.3gals) into the gas tank and test it for leaks. I will turn it over on the sides so I don't need the full 13gals. I don't want leaks and to remove the gas tank once it's in!!!

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I know the tube is fitted the wrong way, but the right way is too high inside the car, so I'll live with that. The level will be about 40% full.


Then I spent some time mocking up the cluster installation. I am reusing my Corrado cluster, which is quite different, from a detailed perspective, than Subaru's. But it's not that bad.

I found out that I will actually be able to clear out the gauges even though I am using a smaller 320mm SW. I thought at first, and it happens to others, that the top of the wheel would hide part of the top of the gauges. It's not. That was a good relief!

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Then, I found out another thing. Remember a while ago I mentioned that the NRG short hub+quick release was quite thicker than the OEM SW, so that I was barely touching the flasher arms. Actually, dumb me, that was because the high beams where on! So the arm was PUSHED forward! See the difference here between normal and high beams. :) DOH!!!!!!! It's a little thicker than OEM, but not enough to be a daily problem. That was another good relief.

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Mock up of the cluster. There is a gap on the sides and bottom, but almost none at the top. I will have to find a way to fill up that gap, I have an idea but not sure yet how it's gonna look like.

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Nope, those are not MPH, I am from Canada. :) Car (or Corrado) will not run at 260mph! :)

Picture of the cluster from farther away.

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Then a lot of thinking... How am I going to fix that cluster in place? Should I fix it on the dash so that I can remove the cluster with the dash? Or should it be fixed on the frame for whatever reason? Took a while. But the answer is I cannot fix it on the dash, as the sides screw supports are too wide and don't give me access to unscrew the little screws. Plus, the side of the dash, the surround section that goes over the Subaru cluster, is round, so bolting a bracket there that would hold the top screws on my cluster is more complex. Since my bottom support will be on the frame, I opted for frame support on the top side screws too.

Now how am I going to do that? I decided to mimic OEM installation, especially for the bottom supports. See how I did that cut perfectly right? :)

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Of course I will cut the bracket so it's much thinner, but it supports perfectly the cluster. Another relief.


Those were the bottom brackets. I still need 2 more brackets, at the top.

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I started working on it, I will have pictures of the results tomorrow. So far I am happy with what I am fabing. I think it's gonna work pretty good, though not perfect.

[Frank818]

One 100% Subaru question on ebrakes:

How are the cables secured in place on the backing plates? I can push them in further but they come out easily. Is it when then the tension is adjusted they stay in place? Or I need some kind of OEM clips that go in the little holes on the protruding tubing section within which the cables goes in?

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[STiPWRD]

There's a clip that secures the e-brake cable in the backing plate (P/N 26042AA030). The attachment in the previous post didn't work for me.

[Hindsight]

Yeah it's a super tiny little U-shaped clip. Looks like a big staple kind of. Very easy part to lose.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

One 100% Subaru question on ebrakes:

How are the cables secured in place on the backing plates? I can push them in further but they come out easily. Is it when then the tension is adjusted they stay in place? Or I need some kind of OEM clips that go in the little holes on the protruding tubing section within which the cables goes in?

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Here is a picture of part #10 you need.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37026&d=1420037414

[Frank818]

That looks like these, are they the winners?

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They certainly are the losers when it comes to push them in place, seemed a little too wide. Or I am the loser cuz I don't know the technique?
Clearance in that area with the spindle and trailing link on is tight.

[Frank818]

New Year's Eve update.

I was supposed to finish my cluster installation. But I went to the gas station at -13C (8.5F) to fill up the tank with 15 SUPER COLD litres (4 freezing gals) and give it a leak test.
Turns out it leaked or leaks, in 2 places. It smelt so bad I was becoming dizzy with vision troubles, slight headache and bad stomach. I had to stop working, could not concentrate anyway.

I hoovered my nose around the smelly tank like a dog would hoover around other dog's you know what and I found 2 leaks.

First one, the level sender. Something between the metal ring to secure it in place or the rubber gasket underneath the ring is leaking just a bit. I then hit some more the (precious) ring to tight it, I went one hit over tight, where the the small bubbles on the metal ring over shoot just a bit the place where they should sit in. Hard to explain. It helped, cuz at first I could suck up the fuel with a rag, very very little was coming out, but I could wash it over with a weed heater (shooting air like compressed air) and I could see the fuel moving around the ring and evaporating within a flash as the air was flowing on. After I tightened the ring more, no more fuel, but still vapors! That can be fixed using some fuel-resistant sealant, so I am not that concerned about it.

2nd one, well it's the fuel cap, damn it. And that one, I do not know what to do. I thought it could be the clamp that isn't tight enough, so I cranked it a little more, but more than that and I fear it would strip, so I stopped there. I'll see tomorrow if it leaks vapors again, but if it does, what the hell can I do about it other than buying a different type of fuel cap, guaranteed leak-proof...

The tank and all fuel conducts need to be vapor-proof.

I did not read anyone else having leaks on the fuel cap, but if you did, what did you do to fix it?

[Frank818]

I wish ya all a HAPPY NEW 818 2015 YEAR!!!

Lots of engines rumbling, running, smoking other cars, gears shifted, burning rubber smell (no fuel smell! loll), heads turned, questions asked about your car, etc.

Keep up your good work, it's all worth it in the end! :)

[Frank818]

Meziere AWIC pump installed with anti-vibration system.

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[Frank818]

Cluster brackets.

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Looks funny, a bit daft, but in black you don't see them much and obviously with the dash on it won't be visible. Took me a fair amount of time to design and it's not the perfect solution, but it should stay in place, that's the only thing I want.

Tnx to my welder again for these!

[Frank818]

Here is a picture of part #10 you need.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37026&d=1420037414


Bob, I have seen a few diagrams on internet, but no real picture, so it's hard to know if they are the clips of picture in post #517.
How have you pushed yours in?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, I have seen a few diagrams on internet, but no real picture, so it's hard to know if they are the clips of picture in post #517.
How have you pushed yours in?
I think this is a picture of the clip your looking for.
There is a screw diver in it to pry it off.
Bob
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[Scargo]

"Tnx to my welder again for these!" Funny guy. Like the welder has a brain...
It works, it's functional and is pretty clean. Good job.

[Frank818]

I think this is a picture of the clip your looking for.
There is a screw diver in it to pry it off.
Bob
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Bob, again you nailed it! Yours looks like a bit staple, but mine on the picture look like a super super small horseshoe. I'll call the dealer on Monday and order a set.



Scargo, you're right, I should be happy about the good job. I thought I could do better, but I spent so many hours fitting this and the precision was quite important, so you're right, good job. :)

[svanlare]

I go away skiing for the better part of 2 weeks and you are welding like a champ and making great progress. Learning to weld is on my bucket list, after catching up here I might have to make that happen sooner rather than later. Time to get back in the garage today for me!

[Frank818]

Tnx, Steve, but "champ" is a big word, though I admit for light and medium work like brackets I can get around no problem. Engine mounts, exhaust, intake piping or frame tubing will have to wait a few more weeks. Go skiiing again twice and then I should be ok. :)


Well these Holidays were like "Holly Days" for me, in 2 weeks minus 2 days I spent 73h45mins. Not bad.

I finally completed the stupid ebrake handle. I should have bought a 2005+ handle w/boot, it would have saved me I'd say 10h easily. Oh well.
I used FFR's shifter boot, but the leather (or is it vinyl actually?) is made for a shifter, not curved for an ebrake, so there's a lot of leather at the front under the handle. It was jamming up the handle I couldn't sit it properly. Even the grease from the mechanism was all over the inside of the boot. So I had to cut more the ebrake handle trim and my center console. 100 more trimming on that console.

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But since the shifter boot had a very tight hole, in order to get the shaft through the tight hole (bad choice of words, sorry!!!), I had to cut the elastic keeping the hole tight. Of course it damaged a little the exterior of the boot, so I don't know how I am going to hide this. Maybe I can roll the sleeve over the handle, but it shortens the handle, it looks weird and I do slightly touch the boot with I use the handle. I'll see what I can find later on when I'm finishing the interior. The important thing is that all the parts are fitting together and are functional.

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[Frank818]

Then I worked on the AWIC hoses. Have nothing done, as one of my biggest challenge is I have no idea of the clearances on that car. Anywhere on the car, until I actually mount the parts, I have no idea where I have space to pass something through. Can I fit the coolant tube that high? Oh, no, can't, the side body panel is flush on the frame there. I'm not there yet, not easy to see it coming. Can I pass the hoses outside that rad frame? Oh, probably not, it seems like the alu panels are riveted on the frame, bent inside a little.... and so on... Since I can't find clear pictures of all the clearances around the car, it's sometimes a real pain to design my solutions. That's one of the things I hate the most about this.

I have then decided to mount my overflow reservoir #1, the one up front. I drilled out the rivnut on my older style Subaru rad and fitted one I have fasteners for. I then spaced out the reservoir mounting hole so it would not bend the plastic, I put some protecting foam under the reservoir, to better sit on the rad and I will probably tie-wrap the bottom mount of the reservoir through the rad.

As you notice, I quickly marked the new levels.

The result doesn't fit higher than the overflow cap on the other side, I should be fine.


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And I finished up the Holiday work with a start of my carpeting. Undercarpeting, for the moment.

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I have no idea how I will tackle this in place in a way that it can be removed/reinstalled as often as need be...

Guess what, yes, since it added spacing up front the FW and on the foot area, it changed my center console alu fitment (I knew it), so another 100 trimming on the console. lolll This console is so trimmed, so precise, it's not worth 1000's of dollars to me, it better never break. loll :)
And guess what again, the undercarpet under the seats causes me issues to install the seat. Since it's not possible to reach the rear brackets from anywhere else than directly under the seat (yes, the under seat alu panel needs to be removed each time), I realized that now the undercarpet is in the way. I will have to drill a hole or cut a line that can be stretched whenever I need to install or remove the seats.


Tell ya what, there are 2 things I would never want to remove: the ebrake handle (requires the entire console to be removed) and the seats.

[Frank818]

I don't have many pictures now that I am working on the carpeting and insulation.

In the meantime I started leak testing my fuel tank a while back and found 2 types of leaks which I mentioned previously.

Here are the fixes to that:

1- Fuel cap vapor leak. This should not happen once you install the S tube correctly. I installed it ends swapped cuz I needed a low profile fuel cap to fit in the car while I was going to the gas station. Stupid me, I could have simply used my fuel plastic container and pour it in the fuel tank at home. Anyway, since fuel was sitting at the bottom of the tube all along the S'es and much closer to the fuel cap, it leaked vapors. As soon as I was emptying the tube by tilting it or if it's higher (installed normally), it doesn't leak. But I am sure if you overfill the tank and fuel backs up the tube it will smell in your garage until you burn that fuel out. I mean burning using the engine, not fire, of course!

2- Level sender gasket leak. This was a real leak. Vapor and liquid leaks. When I was tilting and shaking the tank, fuel was dripping along the opening and on the front side of the tank. I removed the gasket and sender, used some Permatex non-hardening Make a Gasket (like this one http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/permatex-form-a-gasket-no.-2-sealant-3-oz-80016/7349145-P) and put everything back in. No smell at all, even when I shake the tilted tank.

Plz, test leak your tank BEFORE you permanently fit it in the car and fill it with fuel.

I don't want to imagine all the troubles I would have gone through if it were leaking while in the car.

Besides, it's super easy to test and if you need to drain the tank, use your inside pump! It actually allowed me to test my new 255LPH pump. Works fine and much quieter than expected.

Something I learned about kit car building, "test everything before you fit".

[Frank818]

New Ford GT V6 sound
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ford-gt-engine-noise-detroit-2015-01-19

Definately not a V8! But still a great whistle!

I won't have build updates for a while, as I am stuck on wiring. Some of the Subaru as is, some of the Subaru modified, some of the VW as is, some of the VW modified and the rest, 95%, all custom, even more custom than the standard 3-cell kit rear engine from InfinityBox. It is hard for me that part. I estimate 150hours on the wiring.

[Harley818]

Hi Frank,
After your story about gas all over the garage floor, I was worried, but took a gamble and filled it up yesterday..... no leaks!!!
However, after starting, had a fuel leak at the FFR quick disconnect.

I feel your pain with the wiring. I have lots of hours into it and I'm not done yet. The engine start was good, but now I need to neaten it up, figure out where I'm going to tap in for stereo etc. and go from there.

[Pearldrummer7]

Frank- PM me with what you need from the 02. I saw the steering column stuff and took some pics and plan to label/upload tonight for you. What else?

[Frank818]

Harley, if my post made you leak test your tank and you found out what we know you found out, then I am very happy I posted the information as it made you find out sooner than later and with the fuel tank, later is a pain...

Tnx Frank! The other Frank. :)

[Harley818]

Frank,
I'm just finishing my wiring.
If theres any connectors or other info you need pics of let me know.
I have pretty much finished the wiring to the engine and fuel pump/controller/fuel level.
Wiring finished to the engine and trans.
Still have front and rear lights to wire.
Front rad fans, and brake master hooked up.

I have main fuse panel and relay panel located just at the front of the tunnel, with daytime running lights relays, etc at the back.
Almost everything else cut out.
I kept in the steering wheel switches and controls........ starter key works although I will switch to a pushbutton start and proximity security system. I want walk-up recognition and push button start.
Harley

[Scargo]

I need a DBW connector for the gas pedal...:D

[Frank818]

Well I had a great phone call with Jay at Infinitybox this morning. Straightened many things out which helped me better understand his system and the Subaru diagrams. I also did some searches on internet for acronyms not defined in the Subaru manual, nor Infinitybox's. Then I played with the steering column's wires and found most of what I was looking for (yeah, that quickly, who knew! Not me!!). Crossing fingers the wire colors I found in the manual really match the ones on the column, I should know tomorrow.

It seems many wires are not going to be used anyway (I won't even use the cylindrical starter piece and wires), delete all relays, all security module crap things and that stuff. My stand alone ECU and the Infinitybox will be replacing and controlling almost everything without a relay and stuff. I still need a few relays for specific things, but they will be custom.

I'm still learning. BTW for those interested, on the clutch, the blue connector/switch at the bottom is used probably to cut off the cruise and the switch works the exact opposite as the interlock switch, which is located just above, in white. One switch grounds when you press and the other cuts ground when you press. I have removed the latter, no cruise on mine.

Frank (Pearldrum) gave me some inputs last night which also triggered some more understandings when I started to read again the wiring manual today. Tnx for that, man! It's not over yet but tnx for the great start!


Jay is looking at a special feature for both my seats heating and back seat reclining motor. The beauty of that system is I can program pretty much anything like I want and I can eliminate all switches by using my tablet. Say for ACC, IGN, START, shutdown, turn on ECU only, awic water pump, seats, hazards, parking lights, etc. I will have one switch on my dash: kill switch.

I hope to progress even more this w-e. But the key is to read a lot of documents, there are many documents giving me different info but when I match them all up, it then adds up! Plus the help I get here and more things match up. Now that's a good feeling. :)

[Pearldrummer7]

Well I had a great phone call with Jay at Infinitybox this morning. Straightened many things out which helped me better understand his system and the Subaru diagrams. I also did some searches on internet for acronyms not defined in the Subaru manual, nor Infinitybox's. Then I played with the steering column's wires and found most of what I was looking for (yeah, that quickly, who knew! Not me!!). Crossing fingers the wire colors I found in the manual really match the ones on the column, I should know tomorrow.

It seems many wires are not going to be used anyway (I won't even use the cylindrical starter piece and wires), delete all relays, all security module crap things and that stuff. My stand alone ECU and the Infinitybox will be replacing and controlling almost everything without a relay and stuff. I still need a few relays for specific things, but they will be custom.

I'm still learning. BTW for those interested, on the clutch, the blue connector/switch at the bottom is used probably to cut off the cruise and the switch works the exact opposite as the interlock switch, which is located just above, in white. One switch grounds when you press and the other cuts ground when you press. I have removed the latter, no cruise on mine.

Frank (Pearldrum) gave me some inputs last night which also triggered some more understandings when I started to read again the wiring manual today. Tnx for that, man! It's not over yet but tnx for the great start!


Jay is looking at a special feature for both my seats heating and back seat reclining motor. The beauty of that system is I can program pretty much anything like I want and I can eliminate all switches by using my tablet. Say for ACC, IGN, START, shutdown, turn on ECU only, awic water pump, seats, hazards, parking lights, etc. I will have one switch on my dash: kill switch.

I hope to progress even more this w-e. But the key is to read a lot of documents, there are many documents giving me different info but when I match them all up, it then adds up! Plus the help I get here and more things match up. Now that's a good feeling. :)

No problem, Frank! Asking me to define things helps me understand them better myself, too.

Your infinitybox setup is very cool and makes me think of the possibilities with a standalone PLC. Siemens' new 1500 series starts wayyyyy cheap (30 I/O for ~$250 with a usb cable, I think)....perhaps that's in my future for this car, as well.


Keep us up to date with InfinityBox updates, and nice progress man!

[Frank818]

I thought this could interest a few people who want to fit a tablet on the center console.

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This tablet fits totally perfectly with a superb clearance on all 4 corners. Too bad I am not fitting it portrait but rather landscape due to my ECU software which works a lot better in landscape. But anyone who wants a portrait tablet, this one is the way to go. Others may too but this one is just perfect. If you want to know what it is let me know.


Also some of my wiring. I'd say this is about 90% of my wiring up front (and not all wires are used, I will remove the unused ones), not bad, if I was not using these cells I would have more and a lot more going to the back. Now I have power going there and one cell to control all the stuff in the back. One more cell and I would be missing space to fit it! My ECU is fixed on my fuel tank! I have put some EZCool on the tank and fixed the ECU on top of the EZCool with velcro. No picture for that yet.

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I have gone through all required wires on the steering column and know which one does what (except for cruise I didn't check). I broke my multi-meter but welded it back. This thing is way too handy.

[C.Plavan]

You will not be able to see that tablet at all during the daytime.

[Frank818]

Don't worry Chad, I will not. I used to use my laptop on the pass seat in a closed-off car with tinted windows and it was a pain in direct sunlight. I still plan on using an anti-glare film but mostly for protection than anti-glare. My polarized sunglasses will kill all the view on the tablet anyway, even when cloudy. Tablet will also be easily detachable so I can use it on my knees and change the angle as I wish. But I won't be using it while I got my hands on the wheels.

[Frank818]

Non-wiring update #1 of 2.

I received some parts to allow me finish the installation of the AWIC HE and coolant tubes.

To fit the HE, took me... 5-6h. For a freakin' rad!!! ZB's mounting brackets caused me some alignment issues as I could not get them aligned well enough. I ended up stretching one of them, there will always be some tension on the passenger's side bracket, but it's not that bad. After hours of test fitting the HE, thank god I found the best compromise.

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But the main problem is I realized that if you are not using a 02-07 rad with the top center inlet and you are using a pre-02 with top right inlet (especially one aftermarket from ebay), the size of the rad may vary in which case fitting the HE is more problematic. At first one of the bolt on the driver's side was hitting one rad's weld (dry rad, there is no coolant in), I had to flip the bolt around and gain some clearance. Still a tight fit.

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But there is another prob with those pre-02 rads. A 5/8 hose does not pass through between the rad and rad frame. DOH!

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Yeah I did swear quite a lot. So I continued my main work on this build (designing) and routed the damn hoses one over the HE and rad on the far left and one under the HE, rad and steering rack. I just cross my fingers that nothing will need either space (hood, front rad belly pan, splitter, etc.). If yes, I am dooooooooooooooooooomed.

Then while test fitting the HE I wondered why ZB did not fab the brackets to allow a lot more clearance on the barb fittings side. I think it's cuz Craig wanted to keep the HE as centered as possible and to allow routing the hoses straight between the rad and rad frame (irrelevant for me now). Hence, I think good clearance in cases like mine with a non-02-07 rad, is worth more. The brackets could be modified (or have another version) to allow something like this:

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2 probs would be fixed at once: Enough barb fittings clearance and no clearance issue with the driver side's lower bolt hitting on a non 05-07 rad. I had spent enough hours fitting this damn HE I didn't want to spend more modifying the brackets myself so I let it go, I was pissed enough (all this cuz of the non-02-07 rad).

[Frank818]

Non-wiring update #2 of 2.

Now the coolant tubes. Oh that should be easy, I got Mike Everson's (Replica parts) tubes designed for the rad I am using! How lucky.

Wrong. The tubes are nice, but I believe, at least on the driver's side, 2 tubes are too short and would greatly benefit from being about just 1" longer. The tube that comes out of the lower left outlet and goes over the steering parts could have 1" more towards the front FW. This would allow 1- more clearance under the control arm and 2- better clearance over the frame for the inner wheel well.
Then the next tube that goes from the control arm to exit inside the side body panel could be 1" longer (or maybe be pushed back 1" from the first tube) to allow a perfect clamp fitting. Currently it's so tight that I spent 2h trying to make it fit in a way that the clamp would 1- not rub on the frame and 2- be able to access the clamp in order to fully tighten it on the rubber coupler. Even so, I hope NO vibration will happen there as it will rub in such case. There is a lot of open space in that area the more you go back. Since it's a triangle shape, the further up front, the least space you've got. I don't know what I'm missing, but swore a lot again. What am I doing that bad to make the installation that bad, I couldn't find.

Took me almost 5h to fit 2 tubes.
3879838799388003880138802

Finally found a compromise for which I cross my fingers there will be no vibrations.

This week I'll see what happens to the passenger's side.


In the meantime,

Some friend: "Hey, judging by the thread pattern, you were trying to do something on a 10-32 bolt, right?"
Frank: "Yeah, right on, 10-32 bolt cut with my cut-off wheel burned my finger."
Who didn't hurt himself during his build. :)

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[wleehendrick]

I received some parts to allow me finish the installation of the AWIC HE and coolant tubes.

To fit the HE, took me... 5-6h. For a freakin' rad!!! ZB's mounting brackets caused me some alignment issues as I could not get them aligned well enough. I ended up stretching one of them, there will always be some tension on the passenger's side bracket, but it's not that bad. After hours of test fitting the HE, thank god I found the best compromise.


Hey Frank,

I mounted my front AWIC HE yesterday in about an hour and didn't have any issues. I did have to bend the two tabs at the top straight (did you do that?), since they come at a right angle, but once I did that, it all lined up OK. The brackets didn't want to sit perfectly straight, but I clamped them where I wanted them, drilled the rivnut holes, and it ended up fine. I have a new Mishimoto main radiator, not an older design and haven't run the cooling lines yet, but I'm sure (hope?) Craig allowed clearance.

[Mechie3]

Sorry to bear about all your torubles Frank. I test fit mine with an 02-07 radiator. Metros tested his with the same radiator. The only troublemaker for those with the 02-07 radiator will be that the bends might not be perfect 90deg. Sheet metal bending on a manual brake is only so precise. My intent was to have them mount so that the barbs point directly between the frame and radiator.

[Frank818]

I mounted my front AWIC HE yesterday in about an hour and didn't have any issues. I did have to bend the two tabs at the top straight (did you do that?), since they come at a right angle, but once I did that, it all lined up OK. The brackets didn't want to sit perfectly straight, but I clamped them where I wanted them, drilled the rivnut holes, and it ended up fine. I have a new Mishimoto main radiator, not an older design and haven't run the cooling lines yet, but I'm sure (hope?) Craig allowed clearance.

I bent the top tabs at the very end, maybe that's a HUGE mistake, should have done it before, but I didn't cuz I wanted the HE in the right angle (ideally same fwd angle as the main rad). Also I thought on Craig's bracket page it said to bend them at the end, I may have misread. All in all I enlarged the hole on HE lower driver's side for the bracket to have more side angle and I slightly twisted the one on the passenger's side. I also used 10-32 bolts for the brackets on the frame, as 1/4-20 would require me to drill perfect holes without any play in the brackets. The 10-32s are smaller and allowed me some play which helped fitting.

But that would not solve the main rad clearance issue for the hoses anyway. Has nothing to do with the brackets installation.
Measure the clearance between your rad and frame to make sure you have enough space. I bet if it's a 02-07 you are ok. Any close up pic of that area?

[Frank818]

Sorry to bear about all your torubles Frank. I test fit mine with an 02-07 radiator. Metros tested his with the same radiator. The only troublemaker for those with the 02-07 radiator will be that the bends might not be perfect 90deg. Sheet metal bending on a manual brake is only so precise. My intent was to have them mount so that the barbs point directly between the frame and radiator.

No probs Craig it's my fault I went with a not recommended rad, like I said no one would know before. :) It fits fine now! Those hours paid for it. Fits fine as far as brackets go, the hoses routing that's another story.

[Frank818]

2 months later, sill working on wiring. I guess I burnt a good 150h so far. 12h only and only to hook up my cluster. Probably takes you Subaru guys a couple of seconds using your 3 connector plugs. :) Every feature and function on my cluster had to be re-designed, matched with Subaru wiring or no-car stuff (custom), re-wired, re-soldered, routed, etc. + the time to mark down everything so I keep trace of what colour does what where! I have too many gizmos too, so the center tunnel is more crowded than I thought, but still less than it would be if I wasn't using InfinityBox. Tnx to that kit to help me customize my harness!

I do not need to buy wires to build my harnesses, as I cut the wires I need from the Subaru harness and solder/crimp them on my devices and stuff. :) It's great, I cut all connectors, relays, switches, plugs, things I don't know what they are, etc. from the Subaru harness, it's all open, no tape, no tie-wraps, no foam, etc. I pick the colour I want and there you go. :)

Front/cockpit wiring is almost done, left are my 4 gauges, Wideband (which I don't have it's still on the engine at the shop), boost controller, seats tilting motor switch and seats heating switch. A lot of design in the process.

The rear, I have to wait to get the engine in first, or if I am lucky I can go at the shop, identify ALL the electrical stuff I need and design the thing. Problem is I won't know the right length until the engine is in anyway.

That's only for wiring! After I need to do body and a lot of other alu panels for which both I know it's gonna be a lot of work.
Looks like the car won't be ready in 2015 at that pace. :( Oh well...

[svanlare]

I have that same sinking "probably not going to be done in 2015 feeling", unless the pace really picks up this summer. Glad to hear the wiring, while slow, is going well. I just got the last of my infinity box order and will be starting on that the next weekend I'm home. At the moments, it is just a ton of notes scribbled in my notebook.

How did you have the master cell programmed? Did you use their stock 818 plan, or did you do something custom due to the nature of your build?

[Frank818]

Tnx for sharing, it encourages me not to sink too much into that feeling. :) Summer will kill most of my work, as we have only 4 months of "warm" temps around here, there is no way I will want to work on the car on a sunny day and warm temp. I ain't living in California or southern always-warm States. :)

I have asked myself those Qs a while back and even though I am not yet to that specific task, I got the answers. The MC is reprogrammed using the inCODE module http://shop.infinitybox.com/inCODE-Programmer-p/infcodez.htm from Infinity. You can either buy it or rent it for a month ($50 I think). Jay will provide you with the file/code to upload and you follow some kind of procedure to upload the code into the MC so it reprograms the inputs'/outputs' personalities and in some cases, some special features as well (time delayed stuff, etc. and yes I will need 2 of them).

I did use the stock 818 assignment chart + the Infinity generic rear engine assignment chart + the front engine Visio wiring diagram/schema. I did a mix of all 3 + my own custom stuff (mixing 4 things then), took a while to design but once I got into writing the chart and installation procedure it went pretty fast. A lot of back and forth though, but structured.

So far I really do not regret my buy. It's MY wiring harness and I know it by hart (might forget after a while loll). That has a lot of value to me, though.

[svanlare]

All I found was the PDF's (which are helpful to read, but not modify), were you able to dig up a visio diagram to start with? I was planning on building objects in Eagle CAD to convert my notes into something more permanent.

[Speedy G]

Yeah, do keep "permanent" docs about your wiring. Trust me, at one point I did an automated water/meth spray system with relays as the heart of the logic, and after a year, when it failed, I almost had to dump it and start from scratch. Make some basic schematics, even if they're done in windows draw.

[Frank818]

Hey good old electric Speedy's back!


Right, so yes I do have a lot of stuff written down. I won't do the same mistake I did with my old Corrado when I started adding gizmos, ECUs and modifying wiring for some reasons. When I took out that wiring last summer, I had trouble finding which wire I could cut, where, and what it was for! It took me 6h to get the wiring off the car and that was less than half of all the wiring in the car, but it was all the wiring I needed.

This time I did it right.

Steve you are correct, it's the PDF version of the Visio I was using (one of the 3 docs), so no good for editing. But good to see which wire was used for what and give me some kind of picture in my head. I would like to build my visio based on that one day, it may be crowded, but it would be one picture tells all.

At the moment what I have is first this excel file with the installation guide I alone built:

39920

This is just part of the file, it has about 130 lines with such notes and also the mapping of my Subaru cluster wires to the Subaru Security Module connector plug wires soldered to my VW Cluster and other stuff. It's not a 1sec look-up info yet, but it has all the info and I can't be wrong if I want to know which wire does what after I have soldered everything. Every device, switch, gizmo, crap, poop, I have a line to tell me how to connect it and where.

Then I created, from Jay's template he sent me, my own assignment chart, which I have created my own version number too for the fun of it. It is still pending Jay's approval, though. Actually I will poke him again so I can order that inCODE programmer, reprogram everything and test part of the config (rear wires can't be tested until I get the engine in, though I could test the ECU).

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[Frank818]

Hey! Non-wiring stuff! lolll

Shifter brackets FINALLY made. Ok not as awesome as Tamra's, but hey! :) Finish is not done yet, but mechanically they work perfect. And with the K-tuned shifter, crap it's so damn short!
You probably recognize the FFR brackets. Flipped around, bent a little, welded and there you go.

400204002140022

[Erik W. Treves]

I think that forward aft bracket will hit the rear bumper.

[Frank818]

Hey Erik, yes possibly, thought about that. I couldn't take precise measurements last November when we fitted the engine, it couldn't go totally in cuz I need to cut the upper small horizontal cross bars (engine cam cover is too high on the forward end). I think the G50 will not go as far back as the Subaru's gearbox, but I am not 100% sure. If it touches, I'll modify it, no choice. loll

[Frank818]

If anyone's fitting a VR6 in an 818, first I wanna know lolll, 2nd don't forget your oil pan!

Since the VR6 is transverse, the OEM oil pan is made for transverse "normal" G forces. On a car that pulls what, 1.4G lateral? and fitting the VR6 longitudinal, you need to think about oil starvation. Do NOT underestimate that. In order to prevent this situation, I have bought from INA Engineering (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada) a baffled oil pan with 3 turbo oil returns. It's made of steel. This pan will prevent oil starvation in acceleration, braking and cornering.

It is not a dry sump, I could have chosen that but for road I don't need to and I don't have clearance issues either. I think that INA does sell dry sumps if you want one.
Issam at INA is a freakin great guy.


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[Frank818]

Well, here are a few updates.

Wiring DONE! Of course, there are a few left overs cuz the engine is not in yet and all the headlights and stuff are not mocked-up at all, but the wiring design and all of the cockpit+ECU is all done. My engine harness is completed as well.

All in all, 180-200h for the wiring alone. And some people can build the entire car in 250h...

This is what I did for underseat carpeting. Cut triangles and glued them to the underseat alu.
41415


My engine harness before I cleaned it up. I did not cut wires, just cleaned it and put it in split looms. Last pic is the ECU harness/plugs.
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Solution to the underbatt tray, glued some noise reduction EZCool matts.

41419


And my wiring. I also need to finalize securing everything in place, but I won't do it until I close up the dash and console, which will be after the body work is all done, in many months from now! Looks crowded and not professional installation, but on close inspection all is well done, nothing will rub and cut on something, built myself some plugs to ease installation/removal. The only thing is I cut time on looks. Everything will be hidden all the time, except for myself when I get the dash out, so why bother with kick *ss installation looks.
4142041421


I have not seen anyone mentioning anything about the J bolts for the battery. These are hard to bolt/unbolt cuz you have to stretch your arms and blindly ply the bottom of the J while you bolt the nut on top. But have you tried doing that when the rad is on, wheels, fenders, alu block off plates and body panels? Good luck. So I welded in place a 3/16 squared plated steel rod (could use a round one too, I prefered squared cuz it sits flush and tight on the underbatt panel). Made me practice my welding from underneath and on very small pieces. The first end was easy, but the second one I cut it 1/64 too short! So I had to work around the gap between the rod's end and J's end, I managed. Need to powder coat it and no more J bolts turning around in circle when I bolt/unbolt it! Can do it one handed.

41422

[Canadian818]

Congrats! Huge hurdle. I'm dreading wiring.

[svanlare]

Congrats on finishing the wiring! I'm now starting to clean up my donor wiring and realized the pallet donor I bough only had the body harness but not the rear, front, or instrument harnesses. So figuring that out too and I'm now well behind you. Guess it time to take some vacation time here.

[Frank818]

Tnx buds.

Yes that process is very long when you start from square 1 or 2, it's a project on its own. And I don't even know yet if everything works. What if I made a mistake somewhere, what if the low or high oil pressure alarm doesn't work, what if I swapped 2 wires, what if I connected ground to 12v+... I'll have to be very awake when I'll do my tests, but that's a task I have to go through, it's mandatory. :) The tests will tell me how good/bad an electrical guy I am. lolll :p

So Steve what are you going to do with your instrument harness? Build one or buy one?
If you take some vacation time, you might think about these future ordeals all the time and screw up your vacation. :)

[svanlare]

I found an instrument harness at the junkyard. It has the connectors for the panel, but the wrong connectors for the harness in my car (auto A/C vs manual A/C which have different connectors). Given I only need a handful of wires, I'll add my own connectors (building my own harness essentially) and solve that problem.

I have a whole handful of connectors i need from the rest of the car that didn't come with the donor. Brian over at iWire was a huge help! He sourced the connectors for me and dropped them in a box that he is shipping my way for a very reasonable sum. I am tremendously grateful. That left just the fuel pump controller and I found one on ebay and it is on its way too. Even If I'm not making progress, at least my credit card still is :)

For the vacation, I was actually planning on scheduling one to work on the car. I have a schedule that I've been trying to hit, and the last several months I've made very little progress on the car and I'm now officially behind on my 2 year build plan. So somewhere in the next month or so, I want to take some time off from work and push through the wiring and perhaps even get to first start. Then I'm sure I'll get stuck on the body for a while :)

[Frank818]

It's really good Brian sent you those connectors, little things eat up so much time! But I can tell you after you do all that, you'll be so proud of the result that you won't think again of all the time and work you spent on the wiring.

Yeah I'll do that this summer, during my 3 weeks I'll be most of it on the car and see if I can make it in 2015. Otherwise it'll be a 2 years project ending Spring 2016.

[Frank818]

While I am waiting for the 5th week after my mechanic to finish a racing Porsche, there is nothing I can do on the car. Lost time.

But, the Corrado is sold. This is its last video ever. I almost cried to let her go, but life changes, I moved on, I had to do it.


https://youtu.be/aBrWQzc36Q4

Hum, why I don't have the video window showing in the post... oh well.

[Tamra]

I'm sure you can find something to save you time later. Are all your brackets painted? Maybe assemble the doors? Is your interior done?

Sorry to hear about selling your car!

[Hindsight]

Sorry to hear about the bitter sweet parting of your Corrado. Congrats on the sale though. I'm sure you'll have about 100x more fun in the 818. The turbo VR6 is going to sound amazing back there and the torque will be nuts. I hope you are going to invest in some electronic traction control!

I'm a VW guy myself.... have owned 14 or 15 VWs (I lose track) and own three now. In 1998 I put a G60 engine from a wrecked 1990 Corrado into an '83 Rabbit GTI that was my daily driver for a couple of years. For the time, that was a fun and faster sleeper... still my favorite car I've ever had, but I'm hoping the 818 will take that title when finished! I really like the Corrado.... wish VW would bring them back, or the Scirocco. They keep talking about it but never do it. The 2015 version I saw just looks like a golf with a squished top.

Here's my old '83 back in the day. I have only two pictures of her :( That was before the days of digital cameras. Or rather, they were out but they took 3.5" floppy discs and more money than I had back then.

http://i.imgur.com/6GqKVBJh.jpg (http://imgur.com/6GqKVBJ)

http://i.imgur.com/yYxhgmuh.png (http://imgur.com/yYxhgmu)

[Frank818]

Tamra, you're right, I have not been doing "nothing at all" actually. :) POR-15'ed my door frames, soon the hinges, spent a lot of time searching and prepping for my next steps, stressed out when I read people's posts about body fitting :), bought some tools, parts, etc. The doors I wanted to gap them perfectly with the side panels before I'd drill and cut to fit the striker and stuff.


Hey Hindsight, I see why you seemed to have some interest on the fitting of the VR6 in the 818. :) You might have mentioned quickly already about the VWs, but 15??? That is new. lolll That's a lot of VWs. And yes, the old Rabbit GTI and Golf GTI 16v were 2 of the TOP 3 VWs, I believe. VW made a huge step fwd with the Corrado (first car ever with a speed activated rear spoiler) and then Corrado VR6, design, new engine, awesome interior, fully equipped (heated seats, electric Recaro seats, heated mirrors, come on in 93 for a car almost the price of a Ford Probe!), but they miserably failed to bring back the spirits of both the Scirocco and Corrado. Too conservative, no innovation.

People were also swapping the VR6 in the Rabbits. :) But I think it cuts its spirit. BTW awesome roads where your Rabbit was. I wish I could drive on these here.

Yes my goal is to keep that engine alive for many more years, keep the VW spirit in the 818 (cluster, seats, engine) and test-fit many exhaust configurations to find the best noise! :) That sound is worth a lot of money to me and I am sure some day I will thank my old Corrado for giving me the opportunity to keep its heart and revive it within an insane car (818).

[Hindsight]

Let's see.... in order: '68 bug, 83 Rabbit GTI with a G60, 81 Rabbit Diesel 4 speed manual, 87 Jetta GLI 16v, 1992 Jetta GLI 16V, 1997 Jetta GLX VR6, 2003 Jetta GLI 24V, 2004 Audi S4 (sort of a VW), 1993 VW Eurovan MV (that I converted to a 5-speed manual), 2002 B5.5 Passat 1.8T, 2008 Passat 2.0T, 2013 Passat TDI, 2013 Golf 2.5. So I guess that's only 13! Those are the only vehicles I have owned. Still have the Van, the Passat TDI, and the Golf 2.5. So it's definitely fair to say I'm a VW guy. I really like Subies too... I just don't like having AWD cars in Atlanta. Added weight, complexity, and worse MPG.

Yea I have seen the Rabbit VR6 swaps, and even the MKII VR6 swaps. Some of them even turbo charged. Back when I had my G60 GTI, a friend of mine had a 1996 GTI VR6 with a Vortech on it. Pretty sure he was one of the first in the country to get that setup. I could never keep up with him in the G60.... that thing was a rocket, especially for the time (cars were not that fast in 1998). I decided some time ago to stop pursuing performance in front wheel drive vehicles which is why I got out of performance VWs and started looking for RWD options. Oh yeah, during my Portland days, I got to know Berndt Arndt and Collin Gyenes, both VW racers you may have heard of. Berndt drag races a turbo VR6 MK1 rabbit and Collin (who works at Techtonics Tuning) used to drag race what I'm pretty sure was the quickest MKI Rabbit of the time. He was turning in consistent 12.8's on an 8V motor. The secret was all in the head work he did himself. 12.8 was smoking fast in 1998. For reference, my G60 GTI ran 14.6 @ 94mph. Not fast by todays standards but compare it to the Mustang GTs and M3s of the day and it's fast.

The pics above were taken in Portland Oregon, where I am from. Yes.... some VERY nice roads out there. Nothing like them here in Georgia unfortunately.

Hope you get your 818 back from the mechanic soon so you can get back to it! Don't let me beat you to the go-kart stage hahah (at the rate I'm going, I doubt that is much of a risk).

[flynntuna]

Being a VW guy you've probably seen the Jetta truck conversion that Dave's brother Mark is selling at smith performance. Kinda cool.

http://www.smythkitcars.com/#!

[Hindsight]

Hah, no I hadn't seen that. Very cool that people are taking a DIY approach to VW's dropping the pickup here. I always thought the Rabbit Pickup was a great idea.

I really wish VW would bring the "California" over here.... the new version of the Eurovan (T6 platform) that they dropped in the US back in 2004, with the pop-top.
42717

[flynntuna]

My high school football coach had a 69 camper bus very cool.

[Frank818]

A Jetta Ute, the Australians would love it! With a V8 though... :)

Hind if you don't call yourself a VW guy, then I am totally nothing. :) Might want to go back to Oregon, if life lets you.
AWD might be good if you have traction problems and can't control it any other way. AWD is AWESOME and a must to me during winter in Canada, but you're far from there and obviously I won't drive the 818 in winter.

Techtonics is still alive?? Wow. That reminds me of VF-Enginering, when they first started production of their first ever SC kit, the Corrado was available, it was in the late 90s. I had the first SC model, then there was a lot of problems with the SC belt slipping and I had a second kit, with toothed belt, they never released to anyone else and then moved to a 3rd kit with a Vortech SC, which I've owned as well.

I say turbo all the way. :)

You made me rethink my go-kart plan. I was thinking I could make it before Sept, I will work on it mostly during my vacations at end of July, but then I will hit "parts time" on the exhaust and intake piping, time to order some parts, one month later I will receive and continue. Lost time of the go-kart is 1 month. Maybe I should try and guess the parts I would need, in correct amount, and place an order earlier. If I do it right, I would save one month and would go-kart in very early Aug. I'll mock-up my design and see.


I really wish VW would bring the "California" over here....

Typo here, what you wanted to say is "I really wish VW would bring California over here". :)

[Frank818]

Well I did it, I managed to weigh the car under 1800lbs!! 1042lbs to be exact.

4289642897

Oh, right, I forgot to mention I've got more weight distribution up front, no engine, no gearbox, no seats, no most of the interior, no fluid at all and no body panels. At least I can say I've seen a number under 1800! :)

Seriously, I have started on the single wiper mod (tnx to matteo) and mounting part of the door frames. As stupid as it may seem, I realized the door hinges fit on the wrong side. The left hinges must go on the right door frame and the right hinges on the left door frame, otherwise they aren't vertical and the door is totally out of whack. Strange thing, but as long as it works, I'm fine with it.

[Frank818]

Happy 4th to all US guys (and Tamra) out there!

Car should be in the shop within a week to get the damn engine in. 26 weeks wasted waiting for my mech for various reasons, but that's life, he had a lot of issues with other cars so I did other things and I am damn ready to restart once the engine is in.

My wiper is installed, but I took a huge risk, I don't know if the windscreen is at its final place and I have never fitted the hood. But I had to work on the car and do something while I was waiting.

[Tamra]

Thanks! Happy 4th to you too! :)

[Speedy G]

Hey Frank, did you end up wiring the Isis kit? I'm thinking of getting it and am wondering how your experience with it was. I saw your post on the electrical forum. Is the 3-cell kit enough/too much? Do you have any recomendations looking back?

Also, we're all dying to see the pics of your kit with the VR6 in it. When do you think?

Speedy G

[Frank818]

Yeah if that racing Porsche my mech is finishing can get the F out I will be in on the next day. He's waiting on control arms for the Porsche and they sent the wrong parts. Then on next shipment the parts were held in Singapore. And I don't tell you all the little things that went wrong since beginning of May! I am waiting for 3 months now. And lost 4 months last year waiting for him to be ready to get my engine out of the car. Such valuable time wasted in the abyss of Time. The most frustrating moment in my build and one of the most frustrating in my life since many years. When I work on a project, my P1 is to keep it rolling. Always do something, that way you see it moving and progressing. If you stop cuz of time wasted (not talking about vacations and stuff), you lose your ideas, you lose your pace, you lose passion, you can't see the end of it, you get rid of it and lose all your money.

I am working maybe 2-4h a week on other stuff on the car, but I can't do much and I take risk when I do something cuz everything else depends on where and how the engine will fit in. Apparently, I should have the engine by end of July.



As for ISIS, which is called Infinity Box now, I would certainly use that kit again, it minimizes a lot of wiring, relays and stuff, I can get it configured almost like I want, but there are things it can't do that I wanted it to do. Compromises appeared.

The 3-cell kit is enough unless you have a lot of functions that require independent wiring/outputs. For example, if you have a fan for your oil cooler, one on the deck lid, one in the rear bumper and for some reason you want the 3 to have independent outputs and controls, you will probably end up missing outputs.

Each cell has 10 outputs only. You have one cell up front and one cell in the back. The 3rd cell is the mastercell, which is the one for triggers, it receives the triggers, for example a press on the switch. This one has something like 42 inputs, which is more than enough. But 20 outputs, gee, that is tight, I had to make compromises in my case, cuz I like when I can control everything independently, but it was too hard with only 20 outputs.

For most people 20 is enough. On a normal build, or normal car, you don't need more. On a custom car or with many devices to control independently, it's not enough.

My recommendation is try to stick with 20 outputs, otherwise if you need 2 more (like me I ideally needed 2 or 3 more), it will cost you another cell that is around USD$550. For 2-3 outputs, no. For 6-7 that would be a choice, but for 2-3, I was able to manage to regroup them with other outputs, though I did sacrifice a few functions along the way.

This kit is upgradable a lot. The wiring, the cells, the interface, the functions, you can change and upgrade a lot and that is important for me, there is a price for that but on the long run it's worth it for me.

I will post my wiring tables (not diagrams, but instructions on what to connect where for which function) once I connect everything, test everything and all is complete.
I will also post my custom coolant diagram, custom intake diagram and custom exhaust diagram, all with piping sizes, once I finalize that too.
Most of this will not help, but for those fitting a VR6 it sure will be a great start to look at!

[C.Plavan]

Sounds like you need a new mechanic.

[Frank818]

Speaking of mechanics, that reminds me I may change mind on the engine choice.

I'll buy one of these:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyZImr1qRo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWyZImr1qRo)

Ok, the car is not for sale or too pricey, so I'll try to find one and steal its engine. Should be awesome in the 818!!

If I fail to steal one, I may get as a backup this 1-gear 1800hp engine:

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/video-koenigsegg-regeras-engine-sounds-incredible


What was I thinking with a mere VR6??

[Frank818]

What's wrong with this welding practice?

43704


Why it melted the 1/8 plate on the top?
I was at 100% voltage and 3 or 3.5 wire on a 140amps 120volts welder.


Here at the top, settings were 75% volts and 2.5 or 3 wire. At the bottom, 100% and 3 or 3.5 wire. I moved too fast at the top you can see the space with less wire.

43703


Again closer view, 100% on the right and 75% left.

43707


Although I welded through the metal at the top, when I check on the other side of the plate it seems the 100% setting heated up the metal better, you can see the change in color.
Does this mean the 75% setting will not make a deep weld?

43706

Am I ready to weld my custom engine brackets on the frame? I would do with a 180amps 240volts welder, as the brackets would have at least 1/4 thick, which is more difficult with my smaller welder.



Ok I had to redrill the center console ebrake panel. I had it too low, which caused it to hit on the FW and it was more difficult to adjust the ebrake, cuz the cables did not have enough tension. Moving it up clears the way for the FW and gives more tension to the ebrake. I know it looks stupid with the 2 holes close by, but that panel tends to want to go up and forward, because of the tension of the ebrake cables, so I am not worried about leaving such big holes on the sides. The bottom one is completely open, it makes a U (downwards), but it's not required, I was able to clamp the panel with enough force using the other 3 bolts. No need to drill new holes on the frame for rivnuts, that was my last solution.

43709


Cables in place to final location, using 10-32 rivnuts/bolts. Doesn't look that bad at all.
43710

[Frank818]

Quite a lot of updates. Not the ones I was hoping for, but for anyone fitting a VR6 in there, part of this update will be interesting for you.

If you fit a VR6 turbo with an AWIC and 3gal coolant tank, you will have a lot of headaches trying to find a location for the charge cooler and the water tank. If you want to have the exhaust top center through the bumper, it will be even more difficult! The G50 gearbox + either the charge cooler or water tank take a lot of space in height, which kills the idea of the top center muffler. Plus, you end up with more weight in the back of the rear wheels and since the VR6+G50 is heavier than the WRX, the last thing you want to do is increase weight back of the rear wheels.

Fitting the VR6 turbo in requires a LOT of compromises everywhere and a LOT of creativity and design. Every damn part I fit I need to mod something, invent something, relocate something else, etc. It is a nightmare and risky every time. I don't think I will complete this kit until late 2016...

The biggest challenge is knowing the limits! How can you know if the tank can fit here if you don't know if an alu panel or a body panel will interfere? That freaks me out every time!!

My advice: Try to fit the body on with all alu panels and splash guards before you design your way with the intake piping, exhaust, water tank, cooler, oil cooler and stuff like that.

For the water tank, I will most probably fit it up front, above the battery. Which makes it a nightmare if I need to remove the batt or simply connect/disconnect a terminal or a wire on a terminal. It also clears the way JUST barely for my single wiper motor system. The tank can slide in JUST barely, I was lucky, but that's from the FRONT where the rad is, it doesn't fit from the top of the frame. This is a compromise for the battery, but it adds up weight in the front, which is important to counterbalance the VR/G50 in the back.

For the oil pan, since you need a baffle one that works longitudinal, I already said that INA in Ontario makes one of high quality. I got it and fitted it, but in order to fit it you need to change your oil pump for an MK5 R32 (2005-2008) oil pump (also used in 9 other VWs like EOS I think and stuff). The pump is 0.5" lower profile so it does not hit the bottom of the pan. Part # 022115105E.


Now, I fix a lot of things lately:

- Fuel tank filler vent:

I drilled it in place with fuel in the tank! I used a cup from Body Building, it fits PERFECT! Finally something that fits perfect on this build. loll
I think I drilled 25mm, yeah, and I fitted a grommet, super tight, then I screwed in the barb fitting, very tight, with a sealant everywhere, inside the grommet, on the threads and around the fitting. I used grease to prevent metal from going in the tank.

440574405844059


- Steering column/wheel. Many little things not aligned that I fixed. Since the seating position is very important, I was never able until now to have a good one, always compromises in the SW height, seat height, SW distance to arms, etc. Plus as we know the steering column is pointing towards the driver's door by default.
So I unshorten again my column, to do so on the tube use one of the silicone fitting that fits INSIDE the big coupler used for the corrugated coolant tubes (which I don't use) provided by FFR. Clamp it hard and it works SUPER DAMN WELL!
Then, I realized the steering column bolts where always hitting on the top column support, so that caused issues at certain column lengths. I cut a triangle piece off of the support, you can see the red line representing up to where it went before. That gave me more adjustability.
And finally, I kinked Rori's spacer so that the column would force itself on the passenger's side. It's not 100% perfect, but so damn close no one will ever see or feel anything. I found that by mistake when the spacer moved and I realized the column was getting more centered.
I also raised my seats. By 1.5" all around, using 3/16 steel flats and 1/4 spacers to take into account the 3/16. I don't have pix but the seat is now straight and higher so that I can have a normal car view ahead and not an F1 view like I did before.
All that helped with the SW and cluster. I can now see all the cluster with my 2 eyes. If I close one, I will hide the opposite side's top section a little, but barely (I have a 320mm SW, not the std 350mm). Since I don't drive with just one eye, I am ok. I could raise the SW with the Subaru mecanism and all would be perfect, but a little lower is better for optimal SW position.
So it's all set now!

44060440614406244063


- VR6 stuff, I drilled a hole in SP's manifold for the ISV. If you have a VR6 turbo, you most probably have that manifold, which has only 3 useable holes (1 is for the air tank sensor), one of which is on the 1st runner for the booster (not used for booster anymore cuz manual brakes). I have too many stuff to connect and I didn't want to mix too many into 2-3 holes. The one for the ISV must be alone as it's air going in and not out. Preferably, it has to go right in the manifold after the t-body, not inside a runner. Again I used sealant around to make sure it won't leak.

4406444066



- Brake reservoir, Mike Everson's. Fitted it... the other way around! I didn't want to have to remove the reservoir or fittings if I needed to remove the windshield, so I flipped it over and that should work. No holes, I use high grade industrial velcro at the bottom, this thing won't move.

44067

[Hindsight]

Good to hear of the progress Frank. Pics aren't showing up for me though. I get an error when clicking the link.

[Frank818]

True they got destroyed. Should be ok now.

[Hindsight]

It's crazy how much time you have to spend when you make just a small change. It's like a jig-saw puzzle and you have to ensure everything fits just right. Add forced induction and the complexity goes up substantially. Change the engine like you are and it goes up 10x more at least. You'll have something really unique though. I'll be interested to see how the VW driveshafts and CVs compare to the Subies, in terms of strength/reliability.

[Frank818]

It's crazy how much time you have to spend when you make just a small change.

It is totally absurd, yes. I know the result will be great, but god you got to put a lot of efforts and time to get there. More than I thought, cuz yes I have everything different than FFR and I couldn't imagine all the details that would cause issues through time, it's impossible unless you've done it before, which of course I didn't. And since it was impossible to get every square inch of measurement possible to check before hand, you step in the dark for a huge part of the build. :)

There is one, just one big stress left (a few small ones but those are easier to manage): will the engine fit in height without body mods and will the gearbox/engine fit in length without the shift linkage sticking out of the bottom bumper hole.

For the rest, it's just one step at a time building, designing. But the above 2 are more than "designs and builds" for me in order to fix!


I admit I have simplified a lot of stuff too, even though using a VR6, with turbo, with Porsche gearbox, custom drive shafts I have to measure right, AWIC water tank, AWIC pump, VW cluster, VW Recaro seats, 3-type wiring (VW, Subie and Custom), I have found many ways to simply the build. Delete this, delete that, kill all around here, etc.



I'll be interested to see how the VW driveshafts and CVs compare to the Subies, in terms of strength/reliability.

I will not be able to make comparisons. I am going custom shafts and CVs with bored out rear hubs. I need something that can support at least 500whp, in case I upgrade one day (yeah right), but I need a very very minimum of 425whp forever, must never break with that power. Well the Subie rear hubs will. I have the 24-spline version and those are too small, people with less power break them (and I think Metal broke his along with the CV), when on a RWD setup. AWD that's fine. But the Subie hubs weren't designed for RWD.

I will have Porsche G50 inner CVs with special high strength half shafts (the size of the Subie's) fitted on custom DriveShaftShop outer CVs for Subies using bored out Subie hubs with bigger splines, job all done by DSS, I ship them my hubs (I have 8 hubs, for 2 donors, so that's not a prob). I expect USD$2200-2500 for the set. Expensive uh? The bad is all mine when I decided to go VR6 turbo. :)

If I could have used the VW half shaft's size, that would not have required stronger shafts, cuz the VW's are big, really big compared to the Subie's. OEMs are good for about 450whp on the VR6. CVs as well, if not a little more for the latter, but you are kissing the limit then.

[Frank818]

Arf, ok, some more updates.

- AWIC Water Tank

Went through a long design! Wanted to use FFR's rods that I don't use to support the tank. I kinda went with that idea but couldn't use FFR's rods as they are 3/8-24 and it was too complicated at the local shop to get 3/8-24 nuts! I had to buy 3/8-16 rods and get the freakin nuts. Drove me nuts. hahahaha

44215

To solve the battery tender issue, I simply connected 2 wires on the terminals and I can clamp the tender to them. Easy!
44216


This, what is this. Oh yeah, I routed my hot AWIC return line, from the cooler to the top hole on the tank. Fits well on that side.

44217




My new oil cooler setup showed up. I had the stickiest AN fitting on my old cooler, so stuck that the only way to remove that fitting was stripping it. The fitting, with o-ring, costs probably 20USD. Coolers with fittings are found for 40-50, so I decided to change my cooler and get a bigger one. At the same time I needed new lines and I wanted a fan for better control, so I ended up buying a full kit (I don't need the non-thermostat sandwich plate, though).

44218


This is a very very important measurement. It is the distance between the FW 1.5" crossbars and the far end of the frame. To that, add 3/4" of clearance the bumper allows and you are at the very end of the car. You should also deduct 5mm (1/4") to that final measurement, cuz you need a minimum clearance between the engine and FW.

44219

Yup, my engine/gearbox is too long. But that is caused by the poor design of the shift linkage. I provided wrong measurement to my mech last winter so he went with easiest design. Now I know it's too long. Easy, I can fix by flipping around and move the cable bracket, I have many ideas to fix this issue, that won't be a problem.
442204422244223


Bought this, tap and die sets. I can't believe I didn't before. Cheap stuff though, it works on the frame, but on 1/8 flats it is very hard and only one worked.
44224

[Frank818]

Now back on the AWIC Tank installation. That was a tough one. I wanted to go the easy way, which I did. But then the 3/8 rods I bought were too flexible so I had to mount brackets to support them. Then the tank was not solid enough, it was wobbling on the rods, I added padding on the rear close to the master cylinder and a bracket with padding up front, pushing on the tank. That's better. Then the tank was hitting the wiper motor. I checked clearances before drilling my holes, but it's hard to mark the holes at the exact place and drill them at the exact place, so it moved a little and there you go on the wiper. I enlarged the holes on each sides of the tank to give me some play.

It works, but I've never seen such tight clearances!!! I added a thin padding under the wiper motor arm, it rubs on the tank a little but doesn't scratch nor prevents from working. That wiper motor will work ONCE, at car inspection on a stand still, so no worries. But god, the tank fits so tight everywhere! And yes, if I need to remove the battery, I have to drain the tank. Bad place to drain coolant, there are a lot of tubes, wires, I have to remove all side panels, fender, splash guard, wheel, inner alu panels, put something under the drain hole (no place to put something but hey, that was expected), etc. Will be a pain, but my batteries tend to last very long, cuz I tender them all the time. So the compromise was ok. Again, like I said earlier, there are a lot of compromises on this VR6 build.

44231442324423344234442354423644237

I admit this is a crappy solution, but I believe even at 35lbs with water + G forces it will work. There are no side-to-side movements and it's almost nil back and forth. I'll keep an eye on this solution, for the moment I needed to do something quickly, cuz I lag a lot in my build due to my mech not being available for the engine. I also start to become great at taking close up pix with my phone, the quality is getting better. :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Frank
Don't hold down the optima batteries by the post. You will break the pressure seal.
I had a couple those in the back of my van.
44248
Bob

[Frank818]

Bob, which pic are you referring to?
The battery sits on the FFR plate and is held by the J bolts FFR provides (the bolts are off on all the pix, I was test fitting the tank). The posts are only connected with to their terminals and they don't hold the battery.

[Frank818]

Ok, FINALLY! This morning the car arrived at the shop to get my engine in. My friend will work on it this coming week (my vacations have ended this w-e, I gotta work on Monday), along with finishing the brake lines and filling it up with brake fluid. I have to finish the installation of Mike's brake reservoir relocation, drill holes for the half moon alu panel that goes inside the windshield and under the dash and that should be it. Once all this is done, I tow it back home to finish everything that's left.

I am sure I'll have pictures of the installation, or installation issues, next Saturday. That's when we'll see how the VR6 can or cannot fit in there. A bit late to think "cannot", but we never know...

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, which pic are you referring to?
The battery sits on the FFR plate and is held by the J bolts FFR provides (the bolts are off on all the pix, I was test fitting the tank). The posts are only connected with to their terminals and they don't hold the battery.

I thought this was the battery hold down bar.
44266

What is your tank in front for?

[Frank818]

Nope, it's the bar to stabilize the AWIC water tank. Basically the tank sits on the 2 lock nuts on the rods but I made a bar across to stiffen the solution and better sit the tank, it weighs 35lbs with water in so I need something relatively solid.

It's a 3-gal water tank used for the AWIC cooler. Pretty much the only damn place I can fit it, assuming I don't want to take up the foot rest area of the passenger and assuming I have that VR6 with Porsche tranny in the back.

So like you I'll have a tank up front. :) Just not fuel, though. :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Nope, it's the bar to stabilize the AWIC water tank. Basically the tank sits on the 2 lock nuts on the rods but I made a bar across to stiffen the solution and better sit the tank, it weighs 35lbs with water in so I need something relatively solid.

It's a 3-gal water tank used for the AWIC cooler. Pretty much the only damn place I can fit it, assuming I don't want to take up the foot rest area of the passenger and assuming I have that VR6 with Porsche tranny in the back.

So like you I'll have a tank up front. :) Just not fuel, though. :)

I don't understand how a awic water tank works. Once the water gets hot, It can't cool the intake air any more.
Bob

[STiPWRD]

I don't understand how a awic water tank works. Once the water gets hot, It can't cool the intake air any more.
Bob

You can put ice in the tank and sub cool the water below ambient temperature. It only only increases performance short term like for drag racing or autocross. It also gives the system more heat capacity, which damps out long duration spikes in air temp.

[Frank818]

I don't understand how a awic water tank works. Once the water gets hot, It can't cool the intake air any more.
Bob


You can put ice in the tank and sub cool the water below ambient temperature. It only only increases performance short term like for drag racing or autocross. It also gives the system more heat capacity, which damps out long duration spikes in air temp.

True.
In my case the tank simply acts as a damper to accumulate more water in the system. The more you got, the more heat you can transfer to the system and the longer it takes for the water to heat up, better on long runs and for some heat spikes.
The tank is inline the system, so water always goes in and out the tank, it's not like an overflow tank.

The pump sucks hot water from the tank, sends it to the AWIC HE (up front the engine rad for me), gets cooled, goes to the AWIC cooler core in the back, cools the air intake, goes back into the tank up front, sucked by pump again and so on.

For some reason I failed to find a good diagram of how it works on internet.

[choobs]

Hello Frank-

I've been following your build for about a month now, looks like you are making good progress on this unbeaten path! I have been looking for something a little more special as a fun car and the 818c looks the part and is of big interest to me. However, like you, I want to stuff a motor in there that sounds as good as it looks: a VR6! Except I would like to run a 3.6 instead of the 2.8 since it was in some VW/Porsche products as a longitudinal engine and ~300bhp NA in a light car seems like a lot of fun!

The down side I have gathered from reading your thread is cost, especially those CV axle shafts! Space seems like a huge problem mostly because you are going turbo with an AWIC which with an NA motor I hope I can avoid some headaches. I have considered this same swap into my B5 A4 but for the cost, I'd have a decent car with a great engine that was still way too heavy to be a lot of fun.

Is there any general insight you can give me form your perspective on this build? The most difficult decisions, the headaches, considerations that one may not understand looking in from the outside?

I'm a little anxious about taking such a huge endeavor but that MIG welder was expensive and I'd like to put my garage engineering experience to use for something interesting. Plus it gives me an excuse to accumulate more tools! :)

Thanks!

[Frank818]

Hey choobs!

Tnx for the encouragements. Cost is not an option if you deviate from FFR's recommendations. Unless you get very lucky (like the Subaru 3.0 H6) and things fits almost in the same place, cost is a required part of the build. The problem is since you don't know what can come up, you don't know how much money you'll need! That's the problem when you're the first on something.

But I admit being NA would be a lot easier in many aspects. Keys here are measurements and gearbox choice. If you can have precise measurements of the engine and you can find a gearbox that fits in the 818 when used on the big 3.6, you should be ok. Of course if your measurements say that it may not fit, then you have to decide what to do, but if you they say it would fit and you are confident, I would not expect much mods elsewhere. Depends what you do for the cluster too and wiring. If they are not Subaru, go deeper on the fitting, make sure things will be compatible and again measurements.

I would really love to see how long and wide that 3.6 is. I tell ya, the engine length (in a longitudinal orientation of course) is a big big big big variable in this build. Anything over 19-21" (can't recall the exact number, I'd have to measure again my engine) and you are in the red zone.

Height could be an issue. The engine needs to fits when the gearbox is flat to the ground, so that too you have to measure and guesstimate.

The shafts, yeah, tell me about that. :( I think you don't need the bored hubs, might be ok with 300hp, then it's probably around 1500-1750 bucks. I can save 500 if I buy only 2 set of outer CVs, which is what I may do, so instead of around 2500 I might end up at 2k for a high power complete set. You have to think if 300hp can destroy the CVs/splines like Metalmaker did.

Get those measurements and let's see if the engine alone can fit. :)

[Frank818]

15-08-15

A date to write down somewhere for me. After being delayed 1 year due to issues at my mech's shop, we finally physically test fitted the engine/tranny combo this morning.

It does fit. I repeat: IT DOES FIT. Things are tight in some areas, but workable.

I will probably need to cut 2 more bars and weld bars over the remaining parts, to gain 3/4" in height for the shafts, but that's EASY!
On the shift linkage, again I will simply cut the top portion of the lever, flip 180-deg around and back the hole where the cable attaches through. Again, EASY. Then, it clears the bumper pretty much like the WRX guys.

Engine overshoots by about 2" the top of the FW, but there should be about 4" of play on a WRX before it hits the body panel, so probably 2" in my case. I think I won't need body work anywhere. Not sure yet.

Very tight to fit my cooler on the driver's side, should work, if it doesn't, I will fit it further back, right to the rear of the left wheel. Not that hard to fit.

Muffler will probably fit over the gearbox, need heatshield to prevent muffler from melting the shift cables (if they can melt).
Exhaust will be short. Very short. 3". I will probably not be able to fit my resonator. Or if I do, then I have to do part of a "Tamra exhaust". Go check her thread for that. Not that hard on the exhaust solution.

Yes, the tensioner bolts are removable, though it's a tight fit. 2 bolts slide inside the FW (guess why I decided to have a FW heatshield inside the cockpit instead of outside) and 1 right on the 1.5" bar, but there is just enough space to slide the tensioner with the bolt and remove it without backing out the engine. Of course I rarely need to remove the tensioner, but I know one day it will happen.

My FPR doesn't fit by 1/8 or so. I need a 90-deg fitting to the fuel rail and I'm in business. EASY again.

The intake piping, either over the cam cover or bottom front of the engine, between engine and FW and then up to the cooler and manifold. Not that hard.

The rear tower brace, as expected and measured a year ago, will need to be cut and welded flip upside-down, in order to go over the coil pack. Not that hard, long, but not hard.

So that's it. Everything I need to fit around should not be a problem, though some will take me time to design and fab, but NO STRESS on any other stuff I need to fit in there.

Phew... That was a full year lived with stress, but now the only stress is that I would really love to finish that build for next summer and drive the damn car! I need to hear that focking engine sound! It will be a focking damn blast just to hear, I'm sure about that. :) I feel better now that I swore a little. :)


The engine will probably be pushed 1/8" more closer to the FW and left or side measurements might vary by about 1/2" in some areas, cuz the engine was not on any supports, just hanging in the air.
I have a lot more pictures with measurements, but we are limited to 10 pix per post.

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[Speedy G]

Who's the man! Dude, congratulations!!!

It sounds like you' re going to need some hard motor/tranny mounts.

[svanlare]

AWESOME news!

Great that you have survived the ups and downs of the pre-project optimism of it "should" fit, through the cold reality phase of it "might" be made to fit (or worse yet, I have to do "what ?*?!?" to make it fit), and finally landing at the thrilling conclusion of it "does" fit!

Flying home tonight (maybe I can work on mine tomorrow), but opening a beer on the plane for you.

[Tamra]

Whoo hoo!!!! Congrats!!!

And I would call it the "Andrew Exhaust" since the most I did was help stabilize a part for tacking :) I leave the welding to him.

[choobs]

15-08-15

It does fit. I repeat: IT DOES FIT. Things are tight in some areas, but workable.

Nice! Congrats man, certainly is tight in a few spots but nothing that isn't workable. I'm surprised at how high the transmission appears to sit! I had initially thought that an Audi 01E would be a good fit but that trans sits pretty low. How much distance do you have between the transaxle and frame?

[mikeb75]

15-08-15
It does fit. I repeat: IT DOES FIT. Things are tight in some areas, but workable.


Congrats; you sound a little excited :) Very good news to see that all your prep & detail & sweating the details are going to pay off in the long run - and score you a crazy unique build in the 818 universe! Looking forward to first start & go-kart videos ;)

[Hindsight]

Nice work! Doesn't look like it will be too much trouble to update the bracing. That thing is going to be a BEAST!

[Frank818]

Tnx all for the nice comments, I take them all like a big shake of protein in order to pursue the build with the 1000s more details to design and fab.


Choobs, which part of the frame/trans you want the measurement for?
Thing is, no matter the trans you use, that VR6 only has one place to fit in the engine bay. Higher and you are in the red for the body panels. Lower and the pan will be lower than the frame. Luckily, the INA longitudinal VR6 pan is 0.5" higher than OEM pan. I have not fitted it yet, but we agree that 0.5" is almost nothing, you have nothing to play with in terms of height. Unless you don't mind medium to important body work on the deck lids.

My original plan for this build was to accept minimal frame mods and very minimal body mods. It seems I got lucky and my guesstimated measurements where within thresholds.

[choobs]

Choobs, which part of the frame/trans you want the measurement for?

Lets try this: distance from the bottom of the oil pan to the lowest point on the transmission. And also from the lowest point on the transmission to the highest part of the frame just below it. If that makes sense...

Also, i'd be doing this swap into an 818c which looks to have a bunch more room to move the engine up if needed since there are no panels covering the engine as part of the aesthetic. I can pretty much make what ever I want to cover the engine. When you had your CVs made, did they only grind the shafts and you are using your own inner/outer joints or did they make the whole assembly for you ready to bolt in the car?

[Speedy G]

Choobs, remember the most important measurement is the front of the engine to the axle centers. The G50 tranny barely makes it possible and it pushes the VR6 a little forwards from where the engine would sit with the subie tranny. However, since the 01E is a FWD tranny, it'll most probably give you more room than the G50 and similar to the subie tranny. My guess it you'll have plenty of room and have the axle centers where they're supposed to be. One thing you should verify is the height of the VR6 with the O1E installed. It looks like the axles sit lower than on the subie tranny, which would mean the VR6 would need to sit higher, which would mean bad news. Btw, remember that the G50 is upside down, that's why it looks like it sits so high. Check out a pic of the 01E:

http://advancedautomotion.com/images/FRM/01E300047M-2.jpg

Speedy G

[Canadian818]

Congrats Frank, HUGE milestone. I remember you talking about maybe using your VW's engine way back, (years?), and I was thinking there's no way. But once you set your mind to it there was no stopping ya, you've been determined. One more confirmed fitment! You'll always be the first.

[choobs]

Choobs, remember the most important measurement is the front of the engine to the axle centers. The G50 tranny barely makes it possible and it pushes the VR6 a little forwards from where the engine would sit with the subie tranny. However, since the 01E is a FWD tranny, it'll most probably give you more room than the G50 and similar to the subie tranny. My guess it you'll have plenty of room and have the axle centers where they're supposed to be. One thing you should verify is the height of the VR6 with the O1E installed. It looks like the axles sit lower than on the subie tranny, which would mean the VR6 would need to sit higher, which would mean bad news. Btw, remember that the G50 is upside down, that's why it looks like it sits so high. Check out a pic of the 01E:

http://advancedautomotion.com/images/FRM/01E300047M-2.jpg

Speedy G

Thanks for the info Speedy. I thought I had read that the G50 was flipped over but that was many a beers ago :p I am trying to confirm with F5 what the situation is with the 818c and any type of engine covers. If there is no engine cover panels like 818s has then height of the engine shouldn't be a problem and allow me to stick with an OEM oil pan/oil pump. Would also cut down the need for an SRI over the stock intake as well. CV axles are another story but I'm looking into options. :D

[Frank818]

Lets try this: distance from the bottom of the oil pan to the lowest point on the transmission.

The engine is out now, I'll see if I can find something on my pix, that would be close to 4".


And also from the lowest point on the transmission to the highest part of the frame just below it.

Nil. :) But we will raise it a little by 1/8" to clear the frame and/or grind flat the round edge of the adapter. It's the bell housing to engine adapter causing this, so close to the frame.


When you had your CVs made, did they only grind the shafts and you are using your own inner/outer joints or did they make the whole assembly for you ready to bolt in the car?

They have not built them yet. They will be custom chromoly shafts with G50 inners and upgraded Subaru outers (more solid with bigger splines). The assembly will be complete for bolt-on.


As for Speedy's comments, yes the G50 is upside down, unlike on the 01E picture. Using a tranny like the 01E will raise the engine too much (for me). Besides, the 01E had many other drawbacks I could not live with.
If you want to fit the 3.6 with a tranny not upside down, having the bell housing higher than the axle centers, it will raise the engine, maybe just a few inches though.


Congrats Frank, HUGE milestone. I remember you talking about maybe using your VW's engine way back, (years?), and I was thinking there's no way. But once you set your mind to it there was no stopping ya, you've been determined. One more confirmed fitment! You'll always be the first.

Tnx a lot Mr Rotary, same to you actually! :)

[choobs]

As for Speedy's comments, yes the G50 is upside down, unlike on the 01E picture. Using a tranny like the 01E will raise the engine too much (for me). Besides, the 01E had many other drawbacks I could not live with.
If you want to fit the 3.6 with a tranny not upside down, having the bell housing higher than the axle centers, it will raise the engine, maybe just a few inches though.

Probably the best method would just be to have everything sitting in front of me and make some measurements. Thanks for the help Frank!

[choobs]

Frank - the 3.6VR block has the same dimensions as the 2.8 and even the same mounting bosses. Intake and exhaust manifolds can swap over too. Biggest difference is the 3.6 is fsi so it needs its fuel controller and specific fuel pump but the bottom line is, if the 2.8 fits...so should the 3.6!

[Frank818]

Same dimensions? How the hell did VW make that happen? :) I mean the 3.6 has 89mm bore and 96.4 stroke. I know a 95.6 stroke fits on the 2.8/2.9 (stock is 90.3), making it top 3.1L using 83mm bore, but on the bore anything over 84 is really on the edge, maybe 85mm but don't force air into the 84+ bore, the walls are getting very thin. How could they manage to fit 89 in there if the block has the same dimensions? On top of that, the angle has gone from 15-deg down to 10.6, which makes either the pistons closer or the block longer and possibly the engine higher since the long crank is more vertical. Those VW engineers will always be full of surprises. :)

But if you are sure the dimensions are the same, especially the length, then yeah, if the 2.8 fit, the 3.6 will. :)
How are you getting hands on that rare engine? Are you from Europe?

300/260, that's about what Metalmaker has with his WRX engine and his car is a blast (lighter than with the 3.6 though but still).

[choobs]

But if you are sure the dimensions are the same, especially the length, then yeah, if the 2.8 fit, the 3.6 will. :)
How are you getting hands on that rare engine? Are you from Europe?

I find it a little hard to believe too but the offset angle from the pistons relative to the crank is 12mm in the 2.8 and 22mm in the 3.6 which should also help keep the package smaller. I have the believe it is a little longer due to the piston bore but if people are swapping them into other VW chassis' using stock transmissions and CV shafts then it seems to reason the blocks are very close to similar dimensions.

I'm in the USA, these engines are used in several VW products from B6 & B7 Passats, CC, Audi Q7,etc. I believe there was a smaller 3.2 developed but that was a euro only fsi motor.

[Frank818]

Yeah the market is better in USA for these cars, although the Q7 is more common around.

There is a 3.2 since the R32 of course. Not sure the recent ones (2008+) are FSI, but it's still far from 300hp stock. As long as you get a longitudinal 3.6 it will save you the hassle of a new oil pan and oil pump.

4457944580

For some reason I couldn't get a nice focus.

The turbo oil return line will be where the white rag is. That reminds me I forgot to take measurements for the length of the line so that I could order it today. Damn it! I'll try to remember on Saturday when I go back.

[Frank818]

A lot of clearance issues occured, as expected.

- We had to offset to the left the entire drivetrain by about 2-3", otherwise the Porsche racing starter (Chad certainly knows these) was hitting on the lateral link bracket. You cannot fit the standard Porsche starter, it's WAY too big, would require major frame/suspension modifications. Luckily my mech took off his new racing starter from his racing Porsche and it fits. I admit it looks awesome with the gold too. That starter however sits 1/2" lower than the tranny support bars, which means I will have to space down the rear diffuser in order to fit it, or cut a hole in the diffuser, which I don't want to do at all. And, that's not all, the washer on the starter is about 1mm from the tube. My mech thinks it won't touch cuz the engine will not move, but I don't trust that, so he will grind off one side of the washer to clear more.

- Then, by offsetting the engine, my cooler doesn't fit anymore. I have to completely redo the bracket and positioning. That really sucks. Might also screw up the corner balance! I don't think I'll be able to have something perfect.

- On the back of the tranny, where there is the plate with 2 big holes on the frame, one place rubs on the bottom protrusion of the tranny. That is easy, I will cut a line in the plate and that's it. No picture of that clearance issue.

- The axles are about 4.5" rear of the CV centers. A lot, but not too much. I will have 2 different length axles, by about 2" apart.

- The engine will not sit too high, 2" up front and 2.5" on the oil cap. I will try to sit the hump panel at 3" to give me enough clearance for overkill heat shielding. My turbo sits high compared to yours!

- The engine mounts are on a plate. The plate is not reinforced with diagonal flats, I do not fully trust the way it is now. I will weld diagonal flats each sides of the plates later, that can be done when the engine is in anyway. The tubes and plates used for my engine mounts are 3/16 thick, which is almost twice as thick as FFR's tubes (0.100"). Of course, you guessed, that will add even more weight to the car! I damn hope I can make it under 1000kg but I'm not sure. That sucks too. Not the fact I'm not sure, but the fact I may bust 1000kg.

- One good news though, my intake to turbo inlet (including the filter) seems to be 90% bolt-on!!!! When I test fitted it, I was so damn astonished I just couldn't believe it! Something fits bolt-on on this crazy project? Impossible. The 10% not bolt-on is that on the clamp between the rubber and pipe the angle is not perfect so it twists a little the rubber, opening up a little hole. Clamping on that would put twist on the clamp most probably. The fix is to cut the pipe further down and clock it until I get the right angle inside the rubber and for the filter, or maybe cut it at an angle where it goes inside the rubber. Should be easy. For those still reading this lolll, do you think the filter is in the right place wrt the side scoop??

I think the setup looks pretty slick. The details are killing though, everything from a bolt, a nut, a pipe, a component, a wire, a bracket, everything needs adjustment or re-design.

44928449294493044931449324493344934449354493644937

[Frank818]

Some more pictures.


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[Frank818]

And again more.


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[Frank818]

The final ones.


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[Frank818]

Yeah well, our 818s can't be beat them all in terms of G-forces...

44962

[Hindsight]

Looks great! Were you able to position things so that the driveshafts will be parallel to the lateral links? It bothers me that the standard 818 has them pitched forward.

Those upper support braces you had to remove..... hard to tell exactly from the pics but it looks like you could add them back in, but instead of having them connect near the middle, you could have them connect a little further out toward the outsides. Obviously wouldn't provide as much strength as the original design but would still provide some good triangulation.

[Pearldrummer7]

Wow. This looks awesome. You've done some really cool work here. Looks awesome as always, Frank!

[Frank818]

Tnx Frank. :)

Hindsight, the driveshafts parallel back and forth with lateral links or up and down? They are neither. :) So many compromises, I take what I can get as long as it runs fine and we think there should be no problems the way things are right now, but the shafts are not parallel with anything. The wheel hubs are fwd from the axle centers on the tranny though, which is the way it should be. Not by 4.5" like now, but at least it's in the right direction. :)

That was my plan on the upper support braces, but I'm not sure how important they are on a street car. The upper round tubes connected to the rollbar already give good strength, not all in the right place but still. Then with the tower brace, it will give side-side strength too. But yes I will weld them back as close to the center as possible in a way that I can get the engine out without cutting them again, of course! :)


I did not mention, but we see it on the pix, we had to cut one portion of the X bars under the tranny and move slightly that small portion. The frame looks screwed up with all these little mods here and there, but it's either that or I fit a different engine and I will do anything to fit the VR6. If it doesn't handle well cuz of all these mods, well I'm screwed! lolll
If it was a race car, not sure I'd have done it with the VR.

[Hindsight]

I was thinking back and forth. Not sure how up and down is on the WRX-powered 818 but as others have noticed before, the driveshafts are offset with the wheels being more forward than the transmission output shafts. I'm sure it's probably not going to cause any issues so long as no binding occurs, but it's not very ideal when doing hard launches on a high horsepower build. I wonder why FFR set it up that way? Seems like it would have been easy to have it lined up. It would result in the wheelbase being slightly longer. Maybe they had reasons I'm not aware of, and I'm not an automotive engineer.

[Frank818]

It's supposed to be that way. Check out the new NSX (naked):

44992

Normally the wheels are less than 1" in front of the inner CVs. The reason I've been told is that on a launch the gearbox pushes fwd due to the rotation of the inner CVs while the wheels want to stay there, cuz the innver CVs are smaller than the wheels so they want to rotate faster. I'm trying to find an every day example but I can't.

I can't tell how true that is, but the above pic is from the NSX, which is a real car so I believe there must be some truth in there.

[choobs]

Looking good Frank! I think if you box in those motor mounts they should be plenty strong. Any reason you chose to add in square bar under the mounts this way instead of gussets out to an already existing piece of frame?

Also with regard to the valve cover near the firewall - I believe that is PVC mounting location correct? If you look at some of the 3.2l VR covers out there, this PVC mount point is moved to the other side of the engine near the oil fill cap. This might help you to install the frame rails back to their normal location (if that is something you are looking to do.)

[Hindsight]

It's supposed to be that way.

That's really good to know! I have seen others comment about it in the past and it didn't look right to me but.... shows you what I know!

[Frank818]

Choobs, I don't know the exact reason my mech decided to use the square bars (certainly not for weight saving!). Probably cuz it was simpler to build. And at this point I tell ya I want things as simple as possible so it can go as quick as possible. The locations where the VW mounts are are not ideal to use existing pieces of frame, definitely was easier to use the square bars, from a working design point of view.

PVC... that rings a bell, can't remember what it is? Oil evap? That engine has been stripped down a lot through the years and it only has oil evap left (no EGR and other stuff).
Near the FW on the valve cover I only got the oil evap hose to connect (below the top of the cover), which will direct to the intake piping inlet to the turbo about 2 feet away. I don't except any issues there. Nothing connects close to the oil fill cap. The R32 has hoses that go over the top of the cover, which isn't my case. My top top top part is the oil fill cap. I don't think I can buy a low profile aftermarket one. :)

As for fuel rail, nothing will route between the cover and FW, the fuel hose will come from the left side of the car and connect close to the intake manifold and into the rail, which is from the opposite side of an OEM VR6. At least I saved myself from some little issues here and there. :)

[Frank818]

Other milestone, the baby's back home!!

4508245083

I already have some impressions. Now I start to understand people when they get excited/crazy on their first start/drive. I had the chance to "flinstone drive" it when my friends where pushing the car into the towing. I mean not "into" the towing but on the platform.

Steering is heavy on very heavy parking manoeuvres. But not that much, enough so that I can't do it one hand, it doesn't bother me. But who gives an F about parking these cars? We don't buy them for that. Buy yourself a Yaris, damn it! lolll Besides, steering has really good feeling and no play.

The brakes. Wow, it really doesn't have the same feeling as boosted brakes. And they seem to stop the car so well with so little pressure, I can't imagine how overkill they are on the road. Overkill or not, as long as they work well and feel well, that's all I need.

The suspension. That was one of my concern. I thought it would be too stiff for roads here, even on their softest setting. I had the chance to go over bumps at low speed and I was impressed. Yet stiff, but far from harsh and far from shaking the entire car. It felt sporty, like a Porsche, well absorbed and still comfy. The front seemed a little stiffer, but I still need to add at least 80lbs, excluding the body for which I assume the weight is pretty much dispersed front-rear. It felt well balanced. I can't wait to try that suspension on the road for real!


Some more pix:

4508445085

That's the clutch slave of a Carrera 4, as the one from a C2 wasn't fitting in there.

Other things worth mentioning: the starter works and apparently its sound is interesting.
The damn clutch master was leaking so bad from the bottom I need to buy another one. So clutch is not bled.
The LCAs will never be levelled to the ground. The car sits currently at 4.25" and it's the lowest I can get (no body). I have to aim for 4.75-5 which will bring the LCAs even more less levelled.
The rear blue lateral links will never be levelled as well. They are levelled right now but like I said I need to raise the car, so...
Is it "that" important to get LCAs and links levelled? Not sure. Anyway they won't for me, so I gotta move on. lolll

[apexanimal]

if your wheel centers are 4.5" forward of the transmission axle centers, how far forward are the standard 818's (how much farther rearward are your transmission axle centers from the norm)?

[Frank818]

if your wheel centers are 4.5" forward of the transmission axle centers, how far forward are the standard 818's (how much farther rearward are your transmission axle centers from the norm)?

I don't know, I think it's 0.5", maybe 1" for Subaru drivetrain.
I believe my trans axles are quite over 3" rearward than Subaru's, maybe 4. But I have not seen that precise measurement (I don't see why Subaru drivetrain guys would need that measurement as it fits super easily no matter what) and I have not asked for it either. I wasn't concerned about distance between engine block and axle centers, I measured all that differently as my engine block probably don't sit where Subaru's does, so that distance was too risky for me to use when I "paper mocked-up" the VR6 fitment.

[apexanimal]

no worries - thanks for the info...

i'm thinking about a different kind of swap and was researching max safe inner cv joint angles and wanted to see the difference - thanks!

[C.Plavan]

Your transmission is run upside down. On the Porsches, the starter is on the upper left (in mid engine config). Looks good.

[Frank818]

no worries - thanks for the info...

i'm thinking about a different kind of swap and was researching max safe inner cv joint angles and wanted to see the difference - thanks!

Hard to tell. One thing for sure, I will let everyone know if 4.5" hold up. lolll


Your transmission is run upside down. On the Porsches, the starter is on the upper left (in mid engine config). Looks good.

On a Porsche, yes, on a GTM and 818, no. Porsche in a mid-engine using a G50? Which one?
Porsches have their engine in the back of the trans, as you know very well. I have the engine in front. Since I can't afford having 5 reverse speeds and 1 forward, I have to the flip the trans upside down in order to fool the trans with the configuration and make "her" think it's still on a Porsche. That trick is well known for people using this trans on a mid-engine setup and it works flawlessly if you know exactly the right amount of oil to fill in.

If I had to keep the OEM setup of that trans, it would never work on the 818 cuz it would bring the engine too high. Well for me it would be a no-go and I'd be using a 100% different drivetrain then.

[Frank818]

This build is a PITA. Everything, I mean every f** thing gets in the way of everything else.


45302

Now trying to design my intake piping and I have a lot of problem with the piping going from the cooler to the t-body. There is so little space I have yet to find a solution after about 3-4h of work. I need to fit a temp sensor and my BOV after the cooler and before the t-body. I need a 3" tube to attach to the t-body, a 180-deg tube needs to be very very tight, I have 8" of play between the t-body (far right) and frame tubing. Considering the in and out are 3" each, that means I need a 180-deg bend within 2". I couldn't find one.

You might think "yeah well just take it from under the t-body." Sure. But my shafts will be in the way. Until I actually have the shafts and test fit a 180-deg that way, I can't be sure it will fit or not.

There is no other location for the cooler. Unless I place it way far back of the wheel between the trans and wheel. Doing so will increase piping length to fill up and will increase lag. I don't want that. It will also put more weight back of the rear wheels. I don't want that either. I thought of buying a different cooler, but they are all slightly bigger (to accommodate 500+hp) and don't really give me better options, so for the price and not being sure until I test fit it, it's not worth changing. The fact my mech needed to offset the engine to the left to fit the damn starter has caused a cascading effects on the intake piping and I'm stuck with it.

Maybe I'll have to live with a cooler way far backwards.

I am not talking about design issues for the coolant and exhaust, there are a lot as well.

Again, this build is a real design nightmare.

[C.Plavan]

I was talking about the mid engine 901, 911, 915 transmissions (with ring flip kit from Kennedy). G50 has to be flipped, no mid engined g50's. Some old 935 race cars used the the 930 transmission with a flipped R&P. No such luck with a G50. I personally would of sold the g50, and recovered some cash while using a different transmission.
But then again, I would not have been doing what you are. :)

[Frank818]

Those might be different setups, I don't know. All I know is if you take a G50 from a 1988 911 rear engine, you gotta flip it on a mid engine. There may be other solutions with R&P or something else, but I have not explored those as I need the engine to sit low anyway (it is the lowest it can now and even that the damn starter goes 1/2" under the frame).

I did not find any other trans that was good enough (some yes, at 10k+). Gear ratios, cost to change ratios, ratio choices, engine height, trans length, strength, etc., all that was a problem on all the other ones I checked. Recovering cash by selling the G50 would be spent to fix other issues the other trans wouldn't handle. The G50 has no issues, a little high priced but I get a lot for what I pay for. Besides, the trans is not causing me important problems right now. It's the engine that is.

No, you wouldn't do what I am doing now. Stay with your oil temp issues (which you'll fix soon enough), it's much better and easier than a build like mine! :) I actually envy your oil issues.

[choobs]

This build is a PITA. Everything, I mean every f** thing gets in the way of everything else.
Again, this build is a real design nightmare.

If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun! Minus the turbo kit this build would be easy peasy. :p

[Hindsight]

What cooler are you using and where are you locating it?

[Frank818]

It's not fun if it's too easy, yeah, but there's a limit. :) Taking too much time on one single simple thing is not that fun. Taking time to optimize something, that's fun. And optimizing is usually not easy. :)

I am using the cooler Schimmel Performance (spturbo.com) sold me 10 years ago (not on the website anymore). It's about the same size as type 10 and 16 at frozenboost, but a little smaller (0.25 to 0.5").
I don't know where I'm locating it, that's the whole debate taking me hours to figure out. I have to close this this w-e.
I guess I'll try again over or on the side of the trans, just rearwards of the shafts. Probably 1 foot longer piping there, but maybe not! I have to check. I'll sacrifice on lag 0.1-0.2sec in order to simplify the installation of that damn piping, cuz I'm almost fed up, I mean I'm not yet at the point I check on the piping, I'm still checking where to fit that cooler in the first place! And I have to check for my muffler too, I don't want the muffler or exhaust to get in the way of the intake piping I'd design. Plus I have to make sure the tower brace will fit, which is not now cuz I need to cut and flip the bars and weld, so I don't know where it'll sit. I have to guess all that at the same time, otherwise one of these things will not work and I'll have to start all over again. That's why I say it's not funny. :) I can't think of one thing at a time, I have to picture everything in place at the same time, but each thing impacts the others, I move one thing a little bit, it screws up the entire design of 10 parts. That's the thing.

An OEM VR6 would be a FREAKING JOKE TO FIT! Turbo is different and I don't think a SCed VR6 would fit, cuz the SC uses space on the pulley side and there is no space there in the 818.

[Hindsight]

I can't think of one thing at a time, I have to picture everything in place at the same time, but each thing impacts the others, I move one thing a little bit, it screws up the entire design of 10 parts. That's the thing.

If it makes you feel any better, it's the same for me. That's part of why my build has progressed so slowly. But I'm happy with the outcome and the (so far) lack of re-work. It's a puzzle and all the pieces have to fit together.

[Frank818]

I understand that and try to feel that way. I know you are right Hindsight! Tnx.
However I got a bunch of disappointments today. :(

My brake master cylinder is leaking. Right in the middle at the bottom between the cylinder and FFR alu bracket. I have no picture. I clean it up, 2h later there's a leak. I don't know why my mech didn't see that before I got the car back. Will have to spend a lot of time fixing this.
My clutch master cylinder is awfully leaking. I have to swap the cylinder with my old 2003 NA one and still use the WRX reservoir (the NA reservoir is too wide and hits on the frame tube).

I am very frustrated. And this has nothing to do with the VR6. I can't accept non-VR6 issues (loll I'm dreaming), everything should go well so that I can waste my time fixing the VR6 issues, but no, it ain't going that way.

Mike Everson's brake reservoir kit's lines don't seem to be good for brake fluid, they are leaking through.

45393


I spent 9h today on the car. 6h to get the ride height. 6. Not 6mins, 6hours. Then 2.5h to get the rear wheels aligned. Not fully aligned, just back and forth with the control arm so that they fit centered within the fender/bumper. It's gonna take me days to have a perfect ride height and alignment on this car, it's crazy. And how can I center the wheels if I don't fit the side sails in the right place? I need the whole body for that, so screw that, I won't spend 3 months doing that just to get measurements.

0.5h finding about the damn brake cylinder (I already knew about the stupid damn clutch).

These 9h (or 8.5) were a pre-requisite just to get the right measurement for my custom drive shafts. How cool.

Really, since I got the car back home with the engine in, it's been the toughest part of the build yet. And far most frustrating.

If I try to stay funny, here's how I set ride height. :)

45394

Of course it's a joke. :) Actually I found the fender to be quite high over the wheel, there's a lot of space. Not sure why. I have 2-2.5in of space at the top over the tire.

And this is about the vertical angle my shafts will have. Bad, uh? Don't have the choice (yes, the car was at ride height on this picture, with added weight all around 4 corners to compensate for body, pass seat and other stuff).

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[apexanimal]

what i've found is that 20-22* of angle is the most you want for the inner cv... looks like you're still within that.

[Frank818]

Phew, tnx for that man... should help not stress about that compromise. It seems to be a 10-15-deg angle, I'll see if I can measure one day once I get my shafts.

Speaking of shafts... I mean drive shafts! Don't think of anything else. I placed my order today. DSS is working on it. I am shipping my spare rear hubs to them tomorrow.

This is a picture of my leaking brake master.

45438

I think I'll use my Permatex sealant resistant to any fluid. It doesn't leak inside the car or pedal box, I'll take my chances. Worst case I have to remove the master, which I would if I do it now, so I'll give the sealant a chance.

I am also reading stuff to prep myself for SS welding my intake and exhaust piping. I gotta buy some proper filler and proper mix of gases. 97.5% Ar and 2.5% CO2 seems the best I think, though some mentioned 90% He + 7.5% Ar + 2.5% CO2 for flatter weld beads and good fusion to base plate. But more expensive and since I'm a newb, I guess I won't see any difference. I am not sure yet if I will use carbon steel or SS piping for the exhaust, since steel is super cheap (1/3 of SS here) and I will wrap it anyway. But then it becomes a little more tricky when welding to SS flanges or SS muffler or any SS part. Also I am unsure about the long term capacity of carbon steel for high temps at the turbo outlet.

[Hindsight]

If your master is leaking, I wouldn't just seal the evidence of the leak with Permatex. The seal on the piston inside the cylinder is shot and you don't want to have brake power issues (which you will have soon if you don't immediately when you start driving it) because of that. I would suggest either rebuilding the master cylinder (if you can find replacement components) or getting a new one (~$89 from Rock Auto).

[choobs]

Frank - are you MIG welding all your exhaust components? I have read tri mix is probably the best but 98/2 is a decent alternative. I have done stainless welding with 100% AR and its gotten the job done but it isn't a nice bead and the welding is a bit fickle.

I'd really like to pick up a Thermal Arc 95S with TIG torch kit for this kind of thin wall welding and use the MIG for tack welds and mild carbon steel only.

[Frank818]

I bought a new master from NewAutoPArts in CA on ebay for $60. + shipping. + Customs. + $CAD exchange rate.

Also about the brake lines "perspiring", Mike and I came to the conclusion it's cuz of DOT5 brake fluid. For some reasons DOT5 does not work with these lines. I'll simply buy 3.8 and 1/2 oil/coolant lines to fix the issue, it's less expensive than changing the fluid.


Choobs, yes I plan on welding all my components, from flanges, to bungs, pipes and hangers. Looks like I'll have to practice good before I weld the real parts, don't want to mess that up.
98/2 that's 98 Ar or He?

[choobs]

98/2 is 98% Ar, 2% CO2. Here is a nice little chart showing different mixes and a description of how the shielding gas effects the weld. I'm pretty sure most MIG welders us garage engineers use would be of the pulsed arc variety.

http://smt.sandvik.com/en/products/welding-products/shielding-gases/shielding-gases-for-mig/

[DodgyTim]

Hi Frank
DOT 5 is a silicon based fluid and is incompatible with other DOT fluids. DOT 5.1 has the same dry and wet boiling points, with less hassles.


From wikipedia
Minimal boiling points for these specifications are as follows (wet boiling point defined as 3.7% water by volume):
Boiling point ranges
DOT 3
205 °C (401 °F)
140 °C (284 °F)
DOT 4
230 °C (446 °F)
155 °C (311 °F)
DOT 5
260 °C (500 °F)
180 °C (356 °F)
DOT 5.1
260 °C (500 °F)
180 °C (356 °F)

[Frank818]

But nothing boiled yet, the brakes have not been used at all. I remember there is a DOT in the DOT5xx that is not good to use for street, I got the other one, so it might be the DOT5.1, my mech is on vacations so it will remain a surprise what he put in. lolll

As for choobs' gases mix, that's the thing with gas, everywhere I look I see a different mix for the same metal. loll I guess it depends how you really want the bead to look or do. I'll see what the local shop can do for me (yes, one small thing I can find locally! loll).


I forgot to mention this, but beware with the tool that adjusts spring pre-load/height. While I was using all my strength to turn the ring without turning the black sleeve, the tool slipped through my hand and it made me punch my face in the cheek. Hurt through up between the eyes for a few mins. Sorry no video of that, but I wish I had! lolll

Koni's design for height adjustment is not flexible, in my opinion. The sleeve does not block, there is no notch to keep it in place. It blocks a little to a certain point, but if you need to put more force to turn the ring, the sleeve turns as well. The threads should be on the shock (like Bilstein) or at least a good notch for the sleeve. I guess it's to cut costs and re-use same parts on different shocks and I agree we shouldn't need to adjust height more than 1-2 times, but just beware when you do it. :)

[Frank818]

Well a few updates on how things go.

Did I mention how much of a headache it is to fit a VR6 Turbo in a frame that has everything designed for it not to fit?

I've spent the past uhm week and little bit more to design my exhaust. I mean just design, not order parts and not fit them. The problem is I have to find a bunch of measurements for the pipe, bends and try to magically mock them up in place. Everything causes me issues. The WG bolt, the V part of the frame on either side of the trans, the high drive axles, the huge trans taking all the space, the long muffler, the non-tight enough mandrel bends on the market, etc. It's just a WAG! I am WAGing the exhaust fitment. I have came up with a WAGed solution, I'll order parts, see how it does not fit and then try to cut off odd angles and solder a bunch of 1" bends to make it work.

Based on my requirements, there is one way (again it's always one way) to fit the exhaust with this huge muffler. If I slack off the requirements, there would be 2 ways and maybe 3, but one would be less optimal.

The exhaust will have a plumbing like headers. Ultra tight 90-deg bends, a 120-deg, 2-3 45s or 2-3 other 90s and a muffler fitted at a 30-45deg upward angle. I have no space for the bends! They take up too much space, for example a 45-deg with 4.5" radius, the total length takes up what almost 8" but I only got 5-6. A 90-deg with 4" radius, sorry but it will hit on the WG bolt (that's a drawback of the Kinetics manifold) or the rear bumper for that other 90. And 90-deg ultra tight radius (2.5") cost 80 bucks US each (w/shipping) for 304SS!

My requirements are:

- Muffler tip will be centered between the turn signals (that's half of my headaches and I need VRaptor to build me one mesh like FFRSpec72 otherwise my whole solution is scrap)
- Engine sound needs to be as less loud as possible (inspection don't define "less loud", so I have to guess. And I know the VR can be very throaty on a 3" so I have to use the most efficient muffler for the available space)
- As less as possible bends to maximize efficiency (screw that, now)
- Use a flex bellow (the only one I can is the smallest on the market, a 4" long and it's already too long)
- Fit aluminium sheets all around the exhaust (inspection). I need to find space for that!

The muffler has a 16.5" long non-weldable area. It's about 10" wide and 3-4" high. It's a big box!


I also have to re-design completely the shift linkage as it's way too far back and hits the bumper.
I am finishing up welding brackets to solidify my mech's engine supports solution. I ran out of filler.

I have finished designing the intake piping. I have added a very little bit of piping compared to original turbo installation. But at least there is space where the cooler will fit. Careful, if I bring the muffler over the trans, it's going to hit on the cooler!

I have lost my Tial's bolts and GT35's oil return bolts. Ordered some, 25 bucks US with shipping. Nice.


Finally the COSTS. If you do such a build, I mean a build no one else has done before and for which you know it's a tight fitment, don't count costs. It's totally useless. There are thousands of parts you need to order and you never know what you need to order until you do. So you waste a lot on shipping. Once you get too far into the build, you have the choice to pay 25 bucks for bolts or scrap your build. Then again 80 bucks US for an ultra-tight 90-deg bend or scrap your build. Will you scrap it?
If you are too budget limited, either take 5 years to do the build or don't do it. Anyway it takes a 2+years just to design and fit the stuff. :)

I have stopping counting, but I still maintain a precise costs sheet so in the end I will know how much. But where I stand now, if I need a part, I don't care if it's 1 buck or 1000, I need it or I lose 10s of thousands, period.

[Speedy G]

Sorry about your pain! The 918 had the exhaust pointing up...

[Frank818]

Yeah I thought of pointing it up, but one tip only will look ugly, unless done in the middle and that's as much trouble to design as between the turn signals. Also close to the spoiler we know there is positive pressure there, I don't know how that could prevent or not the exhaust gases from escaping the pipe. On the 818 I mean, the Porsche has been designed for such a look. And although Porsche stock has lost 17% today cuz of VW's scandal, they sure know how to design cars! Porsche, that is. :)

[Frank818]

This is what I do at work now, instead of working (hopefully my bosses will not read this loll). Since I always have my 818 issues in mind, I decided to take a piece of paper and a pen and draw myself my exhaust solution. Spent a couple of days on that and what I came up with is the one on the left with the muffler pointing up. I did not draw the outlet cuz that's the easiest part and I don't think I will have a lot of issues there.

The weird wavy lines is the 4" long flex bellow.

45858


With the engine sitting longitudinal, it totally changes the solutions of everything. If it had sit transverse, the exhaust would have exited right in the middle of the car at the perfect height with just one ultra-tight 90-deg on the line! Anyway, the longitudinal engine with longitudinal gearbox looks pretty damn cool, so I'll try not to complain. :)

I also have drawn on Visio some diagrams of other things, I keep that for myself for now but once I'm ready I'll post them, I think I did a great job. :)

[choobs]

Wow, those are some extremely tight bends. Be ready to pay out the wazoo for mandrel tubing on a tight radius! Hell, even a 3" stainless U bend on a 4" radius is pricey.

[Frank818]

Yup, that's the price to pay for when you do tight stuff not designed for.

- 3" OD 120 Deg. 304 Stainless Steel Mandrel Bend, 16 Gauge - 3" Radius, 3" Leg x 6" Leg = USD$42+shipping
- 3” Ultra Tight Radius Mandrel Bend 90 Degree 304 Stainless Steel 0.84D Exhaust (2.53" radius) = USD$60+shipping

The parts are however high quality and 16ga, thank god.

[Hindsight]

There are thousands of parts you need to order and you never know what you need to order until you do. So you waste a lot on shipping. Once you get too far into the build, you have the choice to pay 25 bucks for bolts or scrap your build. Then again 80 bucks US for an ultra-tight 90-deg bend or scrap your build.

So true. I swore to myself I wouldn't fall into my usual pattern of trying to make everything perfect and paying $20 for the perfect grommet or wire or lug, or whatever, yet here I am doing just that. I guess it's different for everyone but once you pour enough time into the build, a $20 widget seems trivial, but those widgets and shipping costs add up. Still worth it, but someone is going to get one hell of a deal when and if I ever sell the car......

[Frank818]

Exactly, half of our build costs are shipping. :)
The trick is not to sell the car. :) So we have to build it right!

[Frank818]

Finally completed welding reinforcements on the engine supports. It's not as much as I envisioned, but it's better than nothing! It was hell welding this while the engine and gearbox are in place! I couldn't weld all around but I think it's enough. Those are 3/16 flats.

4597945980


I did a few good welds, but I am particularly proud of this one:

45981


Now it's time to start working on the piping and also redesigning/moving around the shift brackets. I realized that when the shaft is all the way out, it over shoots the rear of the gaerbox frame's bar at the bottom by maybe 1/8, 1/4 max. If I recall there is 3/4" of play between the bumper and that bar. This is going to be so tight (pretty much like everything else loll) and I have no solution if it touches the bumper.

[Frank818]

I start to see some progress, it's encouraging.


On redesigning the shift bracket, this is how it looked like before at full extension:

46291


Then after some good (not very good but good!) welds:

4629246293

It now looks like this (no extension on the shaft at all):

46296

And I finally made it through with the design of my intake! I got VERY lucky, as after cutting the 2.25" tube where my BOV flange is located (I don't have a torch), it left 2 pieces of tubes which fit ALMOST perfectly after I fitted the cooler in place! I was astonished, as some luck like this never happened yet on this build. I just needed a straight coupler and bingo. Overall, I add probably nothing in terms of tubing compared to the setup on the Corrado, as the length I cut on the 2.25" tube is about the one I added on the 3" tube. The setup you see here is 95% like it was on the Corrado. I could not find another practical way to fit the cooler. I got a double luck actually, the 3 small nipples on the right side tube are usable where they are! I thought I would have needed to cut them and weld them some other place but no it will work! That too was unexpected.

4629446295

I need to drill 2 holes on the 3" tube before the t-body, one for the BOV and one for the cooler outlet's temp sensor.
I still need to design a bracket for the front left lower support on the cooler.

I also have bought 308LSi filler to weld 304L. I just need some trimix with Helium and 2.5%CO2 and I'm ready. Those Verocious Motorsports 304L tubes are just awesome looking.

[Hindsight]

Nice work! That is one heck of an intercooler.... should keep up with the VR6T needs nicely.

[Speedy G]

That's funny... Something just fits and you're surprised... Tough build man, but lookin' good! Something to tell your grandchildren about... I can't wait to see this thing go.

Btw, did you get your axles yet? I'll probably also be ordering full strengthened axles from the thedriveshaftshop.

[choobs]

I also have bought 308LSi filler to weld 304L. I just need some trimix with Helium and 2.5%CO2 and I'm ready.

Ooo, going trimix! I'll be curious to see your results using this. Glad to see you finally got some luck in this build too, intercooler looks great!

[Frank818]

Tnx all.

Cooler used to work perfect on the Corrado and way too crowded engine bay. Less crowded in 818, but probably worse air flow (and enclosed bay), so I need to take note of Jim's latest wind tunnel tests and wrap up all I can with reflect-a-gold tape, which I bought. The cooler is located in what is probably the coolest spot of the engine bay (another surprise), so I think I should be ok.

DSS is building my shafts since... Sept 15th-17th. I don't expect them until November, I really start to need them as I need to know where they will sit so that I can fit my coolant lines and exhaust in the right place with enough clearance. Yeah things are that tight in that area too.

Can't wait to try the SS welding!!! Before I try I need ONE, just ONE part from Craig, a 4" long SS flex below. And my trimix gas.

[Frank818]

Tadaaaaaaaaam!

46535

[Canadian818]

Tadaaaaaaaaam!

46535

Stop drooling and get cutting! ��

[Scargo]

...Can't wait to try the SS welding!!! Before I try I need ONE, just ONE part from Craig, a 4" long SS flex below. And my trimix gas. Don't forget the back purge gas!

[choobs]

Don't forget the back purge gas!

Its not hard to do and worth doing IMO. Prevent that oxidation on the back of the weld!

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/2181/Wrench-Tips-26-Back-Purge-Your-TIG-Welds-The-Cheap-Way.aspx

[Frank818]

Purge gas? Oh I just learned something knew, it's true the welds inside the pipe will not be exposed to gas if I don't feed any in. Crap I didn't think about that.

So choobs I need another tank? According to your link there is a second tank. Then I need hoses with that and some gauges too. I hope I can get all that quickly and not wait 1 month with ebay stuff.
Tnx for the reminder, Scargo!! Still new to that...


As for the build, some more designs. But first the custom driveshafts. Not shipped yet but ready to ship. I believe I'll get them next week.

$USD1,300.

Here's my breakdown:

- DSS bigger/stronger WRX outer CVs: $500 (pair);
- DSS chromoly as-strong-as-possible-for-that-diameter bars: $400 (pair);
- Porsche G50 108mm inners: $200 (pair);
- Broaching Subaru hubs to fit the bigger outers: $200 (pair).

Now I got numbers. They have seen these bars and outers CVs on much heavier cars with 700whp+ and some work no problem, some failed. All parts can fail, there is no weak point a lot weaker than the other parts. Depends of all the variables, driving style, tires, weight, road condition, etc. They think with such light car (950-1000kg) there should be no problem to handle well enough 700+. Weight is helping here.


I found out that my air filter piping, which was fitting perfect without modifications from my Corrado, needs to be quite modified. The location it fits to is in front of the side scoop, which is no good. I need to bend the 4" intake back and bend it again so it can come from behind the 3/4" cross bar. Oh well, I'm used to things not fitting.

Speaking of which. lolll My oil cooler is too big to fit close to the side scoops. On the left side, the fuel filler takes the place, the wheel well also, can't fit. On the right side, I need space for my 4" filter, and with the 2.5" thick fan on the cooler, it's too close to the wheel well and won't get enough air flow. I thought of fitting it FLAT (horizontal) under the top 1.5" bars over the suspension, cuz we have a scoop on the deck lid. But again with the fan it's too thick.

One location remains, which I never thought of: Bob's location. Which is by the rear bumper! I will fit it almost where Chad has his Amazon plastic louvers. Behind the wheel well, more on the left center of the bumper. I will have to find louvers or opening of some sort to let the air out. Will ask VRaptor, but he needs a bumper or mold of a bumper to design the part.
I thought of something else, I will fab a box that will fit under the decklid scoop and will channel the air through a hose down to the cooler. (there better be airflow through those scoops!!) I will also put a NACA duct under the frame on the left side, right of where there is the tank filler hole (I have space since I don't have a boxer engine) and the duct will channel air through a hose back to the cooler. That should do it. Adding more build time... but it's mandatory.


Now I'm stressing out cuz of that purge tank for welding :), which I know nothing about, needs to read stuff, then probably pay to get a workable setup, which I don't know yet what parts I need.

[choobs]

Purge gas? Oh I just learned something knew, it's true the welds inside the pipe will not be exposed to gas if I don't feed any in. Crap I didn't think about that.

So choobs I need another tank? According to your link there is a second tank. Then I need hoses with that and some gauges too. I hope I can get all that quickly and not wait 1 month with ebay stuff.
Tnx for the reminder, Scargo!! Still new to that...

Yeah unfortunately stainless it is a good idea to back purge if you want a long life from the weld. However, you should be able to pick up a set of gauges at a lowes/home depot or the Canadian equivalent store (I don't think Canadian tire carries welding supplies). But its easy to do and the 2nd bottle should last a good while. I also think you need pure argon for your back purge gas and not trimix.

[Canadian818]

No need for a second bottle frank. I've welded stainless for 10 years and never used one. Back purging is important though. The best option is a dual flow meter, so you can control each more accurately. Second best, and all I've ever used professionally, is a "Y" after the flow meter with two hoses and a knob on the purge line. You only just crack the purge line open. Cheapest option, and works in a pinch, is to fill the pipe with shielding gas using your tig torch or mig gun (disconnect wire drive rolls) just before welding. The most important thing is sealing the pipe. Remember that argon is heavier than air, and you need the air out. No matter what end you purge through, leave a small opening on the high side for the air to escape.

[Scargo]

The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Test your back purge setup and see what you can get away with. Use Argon, as was suggested.
I bought this $53 Uniweld regulator (http://www.amazon.com/Uniweld-RHP400-Nitrogen-Regulator-Connection/dp/B008HQ6GXO/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1444736897&sr=1-8&keywords=uniweld+gauges)for the back purging and for filling my shocks. Be careful or you can go through the gas fairly fast. those gloves on the end are a great idea.
Other suggestions are good. I blue tape up everything I'm not welding. The paint-on flux products (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IN6JXT2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=LS17JMJCKBTB&coliid=I2WPZWYKRV7M37) and fiberglass backing tape (http://www.amazon.com/Fiberglass-Backing-Tape-41-Ft/dp/B0093OSXIK/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1444737818&sr=1-1&keywords=welding+tape) would be fine for post turbo use. I have had fears that the flux could come off and go into the turbo and that for some welds I wouldn't be able to get to the tape to remove it. If anyone knows how to deal with those issues I would love to hear it.
I am considering making a steel header for my build because of the ease of welding and the cost. Not that SS is that bad to weld, but steel TIGs so easily with no fuss.

[Frank818]

Nice stuff here. I read more on purging.

Choobs, Canadian Tire has welding parts (bought my Lincoln there), but no gauges.

Adam good idea on the Y so I can control both outlets. Since I will get a big tank (they don't have my trimix in small ones) and don't plan on welding SS other than exhaust and maybe some intake (though I don't really need at the moment), there will be plenty of gas to breath from the tank loll BTW, My trimix gas will be quite lighter than air, 90% He, 7.5% Ar and 2.5% CO2. But the idea of filling the pipe with the gun is interesting. It may not be perfect but if I do it right enough (I'll practice) the welds, even if slightly rusted, should last. I don't look for perfection here.

Scargo, the flux paste I read on that today and found this http://www.superiorflux.com/stainless_steel_backup_flux.html and on ebay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUPERIOR-9-BACK-UP-FLUX-FOR-TIG-WELDING-1-CAN-/291119902588?hash=item43c8192f7c
They say it's water soluble, so no flux should remain after you soak the pipe in water, or hot water.


In the end I'm interested in 2 options, the cheap gun option, filling with the gun and the SS flux paste. Not sure which of the 2 would do the best job. The paste is easier than filling with the gun, cuz you can't really get it wrong with the paste, unless you put it outside of the joints. Maybe I should test the cheap option and see if it works, on my pipe scrap parts...

[Hindsight]

No need for a second bottle frank. I've welded stainless for 10 years and never used one. Back purging is important though. The best option is a dual flow meter, so you can control each more accurately. Second best, and all I've ever used professionally, is a "Y" after the flow meter with two hoses and a knob on the purge line. You only just crack the purge line open. Cheapest option, and works in a pinch, is to fill the pipe with shielding gas using your tig torch or mig gun (disconnect wire drive rolls) just before welding. The most important thing is sealing the pipe. Remember that argon is heavier than air, and you need the air out. No matter what end you purge through, leave a small opening on the high side for the air to escape.

I actually tried that recently when fabricating my aluminum intake pipes and I couldn't get it to work. I was getting argon into the purge line (valve was just cracked enough to get the flow I needed), but I wasn't getting the flow I set my regulator to for the TIG welder. Actually what I did was a bit different. I put the Y on the tank, then ran one side of the Y to the purge line and the other side to the regulator. If you put the regulator BEFORE the Y, it seems you wouldn't have accurate flow to your welder.

[Canadian818]

I actually tried that recently when fabricating my aluminum intake pipes and I couldn't get it to work. I was getting argon into the purge line (valve was just cracked enough to get the flow I needed), but I wasn't getting the flow I set my regulator to for the TIG welder. Actually what I did was a bit different. I put the Y on the tank, then ran one side of the Y to the purge line and the other side to the regulator. If you put the regulator BEFORE the Y, it seems you wouldn't have accurate flow to your welder.

You can run a little more cfm through the flow meter to compensate. I wouldn't recommend running a Y off the bottle unless you have two regulators or flow meters.

[Scargo]

Scargo, the flux paste I read on that today and found this http://www.superiorflux.com/stainless_steel_backup_flux.html and on ebay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUPERIOR-9-BACK-UP-FLUX-FOR-TIG-WELDING-1-CAN-/291119902588?hash=item43c8192f7c
They say it's water soluble, so no flux should remain after you soak the pipe in water, or hot water.
Again, it all depends where you're using it, and whether flakes of the crystalized flux going into the turbo could hurt it or not. They talk about it flaking off or needing to be removed.
I'm not sure where you got your information. Perhaps it was pertaining to a different flux. #9 must be thinned with alcohol.

I wrote Superior and this is how they replied:
Our backup flux Superior No. 9H does a very good job protecting the backside of stainless steel welded seams. Oxidation is diminished as are voids. However, the residues are hard and must be removed by abrasion. If inaccessible they will remain. Sorry about that.

Best regards,
Dr. Y. Baskin

[Frank818]

Actually it's the #9, as #9H is for non-SS metals. But it's probably the same result and what I read was probably for other paste. I don't plan on welding intake piping with opened backsides, so I guess I don't care about the flux paste's residues. But, I'll practice with the cheap Smith Built's option and if I see it doesn't really rust, I'll try doing my exhaust that way. Otherwise I know I can get some paste.

[Frank818]

My custom axles!!
And a few other things...
Including a SS welding question...


On the 20th I received my DSS full custom axles and bored hubs.

4689746898

Can't fit them yet as I need to remove the old hubs and fit these. I need to fit the axles soon as I need them in place to make sure I clear them out from the exhaust.


Next, I got my trimix tank. Damn, that thing was only available in the huge tanks, 5-feet high, over 200lbs. That thing cost me $CAD480 with taxes + I need to pay 48 cents a day for rent. Damn damn... Fits barely in my tray!

4689946900


Speaking of welding. I tried on mild steel using my 308LSi filler. Works pretty good. The bead is SO damn smooth! And clean. I was impressed. Also it makes a green/turquoise arc (looking through the mask of course), pretty impressive. However, it was not that easy to make a continuous bead. Then I tried on SS. It was worse. You know when you weld it should do like pop-corn and the TICs should be at equal intervals. In my case I had trouble to get the arc sparking. It was like TIC TIC TIC..... TIC TIC.... TOC.... TIC TIC TIC TOC TIC.... TIC TOC TIC TOC TIC TIC..... TOC TIC.... Very erratic spark! I tried more gas, less gas, more voltage, less (only one notch), didn't change much in the end. I don't understand. :( Couldn't find why on the web.

I use 30-40 sCFH, 50% wire and I think 75% voltage (Lincoln MidPak140 on 120volts) to weld 14ga or 16ga (1.6 or 2mm) SS metal.

Many times when I try to initiate the spark it doesn't work, lags, then 1-2sec later it sparks. Often, it sparks as an explosion and my wire gets cuts and welds as is on the metal.
I think I can also push back the wire inside the gun hose with my finger and when I press on metal. If I recall with flux core when I was pressing the wire on the metal it was not backing in the hose!

I admit my small wheel that guides the wire inside the welder is meant for .025 and .035 wires. I have .030 and tried both notches.

When the spark is continuous, never long, the bead is awesome, I was impressed. But I can't find my problem, so the end result is never very good and full of beads and balls all over the place on the metal.



I also installed my canister, much smaller than Subaru's.

46901


Found a place for my idle valve. It's going to be at 90-deg, just that the hose is not in place to support the other end.

46902

Started gold wrapping some hoses. I'm going to need to stuff! My exhaust will be very very close my coolant lines and some other stuff.

4690346904

[Canadian818]

Axles look sweet, and I need some info on that gold wrap. Is that loom or just tape?

As for your stainless, hmmm, where to begin. We need to sort out your wire tension first. I doubt very much that you'll be able to use the .035 slot, so try the .025. Make sure both drive wheels match. To set your tension, loosen your tension off first. Hold your gun tip 2-3" off the floor and pull the trigger. Slowly apply tension. Your goal is for the wire to curl against the floor, and not slip on the rolls. Watch your wheel of wire to make sure it's spinning consistently. I'm not sure if I'm describing that well, if you need a picture let me know.

As for settings, use the chart inside to get you started. If it only lists mild steel and in .025 and .035 you'll have to split the two and then back about 10%. Stainless has a lower thermal conductivity than mild steel, I usually use 80-90% less amperage tig welding stainless, it's been awhile since I did stainless mig. Also, IMO it'll be really tricky to weld that thin stainless with that thick wire in a continuous bead. It's best to do a little and let it cool. Also switch sides to even the heat so it doesn't warp on you.

[Frank818]

Gold stuff. Ebay stuff, but looks nicely made with same material as the conventional wraps (forgot the name of it) inside and gold foil outside. It is tape, not loom.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/291527787483
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/301408853559

SS welding. Maybe I should have gone with .025 wire on that 16ga SS. But I think it'll work anyway, it won't look that pretty, but it'll work.
My voltage settings are 25% increments, A to D. Found out on the chart settings it varies a lot depending on the gas used (for mild steel). Tried many other settings and I think 4.5-C is good. Sometimes I was making a perfect pop-corn, sometimes less, but still quite overall better than before. 35CFH. Wire tension is not as tight as 0.035 flux wire, although I turned up the knob to its max, but it does not back up in the hose any more, not more than 1/4".

Found out the settings are very sensitive. Too little wire and you're off. Too much and it protrudes through the metal and makes a too big/thick bead. Too little voltage and I get 2 sparks out of 10 (sort of misfiring loll), too much and it seems to dissipate heat in a wider area inside the pipe, making it probably more prone to warping.

Tried your trick and I believe welding 3/4 to 1" at a time is as much as I'll do. This metal gets orange very quickly and the color lasts for longer than mild steel.

But gas welding gives much much much much nicer beads than flux core. :) I've got 0 porosity. Tnx to the trimix of He too.

[Hindsight]

The gold stuff looks a lot like DEI Reflect-A-Gold.

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the SS welding. I can do it with TIG but am lost when it comes to MIG (never even tried it). When TIG welding, SS is actually easier than mild steel.

I'm jealous of those axles!!!

[nkw8181]

My . 02 into check and make sure your power source has enough amps (breaker) I had issues before I found low amperage to be the issue

[xatudor]

Just a suggestion, make sure the MIG's tip is clean and the correct size for the wire your using and make sure the parts are clean of oil and grease and practice alot.

[Frank818]

They called the gold stuff reflect-a-gold on the ebay ad, yeah. Don't know if DEI's better or not, but this one sticks pretty good and is easy to install. Can't comment on the heat protection yet of course.

I have enough amps on the breaker, I changed it when I bought the welder, to make sure I got enough.
Yes I do cut the wire tip every time I see a little ball or something not clean. I also use brake cleaner to ensure I remove any oil and grease and dry it off. With SS, what they say is true: the parts really need to be perfectly clean.


And I found my welding issue!!! The CTWD... my contact to weld distance was way too much! I followed the mild steel chart which says 1/2" long on the wire, but I actually need something more like 1/4". I re-read a Lincoln article and they say since SS conducts electricity less than mild steel, you have to reduce your distance from the weld. Now I get a nicer, crisper, higher tone pop-corn sound and I can weld as long as I want in one bead.

Of course if the metal has the same thickness. When I welded my BOV flange (a big bung), the flange is much thicker so I have more difficulties to keep the voltage going through. But it worked.

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On another note, anyone has an idea on how to connect 2 throttle cable (bicycle-like cables) ends that are cut like this?
I don't want to use big crimps or something cuz I don't want the crimps to hit on something and then my pedal will be stuck. I want something small enough and smooth enough so that it can move back and forth inside a tube (small or big, as long as it's protected from any outside situations that could block its movement).
This cable is made of SS. I tried to solder it, didn't work at all. I tried to weld it, blew off the cable even at the lowest voltage setting.

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[STiPWRD]

You may want to rebuild the throttle cable with an uninterrupted stretch of cable from end to end. Although I'm not sure who offers this service, maybe a local motorcycle shop? cccables.com? Maybe you can see where FFR got theirs made?

[Frank818]

Yeah thought about a custom made cable. Also thought it would be expensive for fixing a simple "cut" in the cable. Also I want to keep the OEM VW cable end as it fits perfectly of course in my cable bracket and it's not the same fitting as Subaru.

In the end I think I'll go will this:

http://www.prorig.com.au/stainless-steel-wire-rope-swage-sleeve-ferrule-copper-nickel-shade-sail-CP

One cable in each hole. Will probably use 2 swages inline so that it keeps cables together better. Doesn't take much space either.

[Frank818]

Cool I welded my more expensive parts!

But first I welded my 2 intake temp sensors, here's one. Oh no, that's my Synchronic's flange, sorry! loll I admit it didn't go super well on the IC sensors, I wonder if the metal was the cause, you'll see later why I say that. It went nice on the BOV flange, thought not perfect.

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This is my turbo outlet with a special v-band flange designed for the GT35 with a lip inside and the OD has an odd diameter cuz the turbo turbine's flange has an odd diameter (I also have the clamp with an odd diameter!). The flange fits perfect and tight so I decided to use it.
I am very happy of the tacks I made. That metal welds awesome, I don't know if it's more conductible but it's awesome it worked nicely. After 2 tacks the pipe moved inside the flange and I had to tap on the latter with a hammer to replace it snug. SS does expand. :)
As you can see, the pipe fits inside the flange and it's the same for the flex bellows (not shown) and the muffler! So actually I won't need to use gas inside the pipe to prevent rust on the bead, except if I weld a pipe-to-pipe, maybe I might do 1 or 2.

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And the final result. I am averagely happy of it. I had maybe 10% poping issues, otherwise it welded without any current cuts. I welded small sections at a time. Boy oh boy SS expands! lolll I wanted to test fit it on the turbo and it couldn't fit! My body temp increased, cuz I thought I blew it! Then I let it cooled off and I was able to fit it snug inside with a hammer, very small taps. Phewwww lolll Guys, you're looking at $USD100 worth of parts! 2 parts. lolll I had no choice to buy these specialities.

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Why on earth the pix don't show up again... oh well.

[Canadian818]

Do Not Use Brake Cleaner to prep weld area!!!!! 99% of brake cleaners react to the UV light from welding to create phosgene gas, which is brutal on your nervous system. It can also take your breath away (trust me), and cause brain damage which results in..............squirrel! :p

All jokes aside, just use a clean stainless steel wire brush. Glad to see your progressing with the welding.

[Frank818]

Tnx for that man, I'll not use brake cleaner any more before welding. Although for my defence I admit I let it dry completely, rubbed with a cloth, then a wire brush and I am using a breather mask. But I won't take any other chances.


My exhaust is half finished! But first, my intake. I welded an extension to one of my intake piping. I used the cheap canadian trick of injecting gas inside the pipe. Seems to have work well, check out in the inside, not rusted.

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And my intake finished!

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And this is my exhaust, 1/2 finished. See why I needed that ultra-tight 90-deg elbow on the turbo outlet? :) No space for a finger.
Now, should I start the engine like this without the muffler? :)

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[Hindsight]

Really starting to come together now Frank! Looking great. I want to hear that first start!

[Speedy G]

Getting close! Btw what are you doing with the wastegate exhaust? I wouldn't route it back into the main exhaust. On my skoda, the wastegate bolts always came loose and killed the gaskets. I know I was running the tune to the limit, but still. The issue is 200C - 950C - 200C in 2 seconds really does wonder to bolts and fasteners in general. I really prefer the more modern v-clamp wastegate exhaust, then a flex coupling to the main exhaust, if you must (esthetic reasons).

That's kind of a weird manifold with the wastegate on its side, I guess it's that way so it can fit between the block and the firewall on the original installation...

[Frank818]

It's funny you ask about WG, I spent a couple hours trying to design the route... and it's going to be a PITA to fit!

I needed to check where to weld my muffler on the exhaust pipe so I had to fit the rear bumper in order to check clearances and where the exhaust tip would stand. Turns out I have almost no clearance around the shift brackets and rod and that my huge muffler takes so much space it is very hard to fit it. That damn stupid cross bar supporting the gearbox's support is at a very damn bad angle as I can't flipped the muffler around or it will hit on the bar. I need to clear out my axles and gearbox, I need to push the muffler as front as possible but doing so I need to flip it, for which I am very limited. If not I will be very limited on the back and will need two 90-deg ultra tight bends (like the 80bucks one on the turbo outlet) to make it.

I have no pic of my old downpipe and WG but that one had 4 performance issues:

1- The WG was coming in the main pipe 10-12" after the turbo. That's bad for flow and performance, need a good 17-18" length to tame off turbulences.
2- The WG had TWO 45-deg STRAIGHT CUT elbows, bad for flow and performance.
3- The WG hole was welded at a 90-deg out of the main pipe, bad for flow and performance.
4- The downpipe was crushed in order to clear the WG's flange integrated on the manifold, bad for flow and performance.

I will be fixing all 4 issues. Although it will take countless hours. As I said, one my main goals for this build is to have everything as optimal as the limits allow me. And boy that frame has got a lot of limits for me. :)

I will weld the WG pipe into the main pipe just before the muffler (16-17", can't have longer!) at a 45-deg or less angle. The routing of that WG pipe is hard to design.

I have also mocked-up my oil cooler location. It will pull air through it and then the rear bottom opening, no need to cut other openings. I'll live with that setup!

I spend so much time designing since September I have little time to carefully watch other people's builds and learn from what you guys do (tips, hints, etc.). I have to choose my battles, if that French expression is the same in English.


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[Frank818]

Started working on the car in May 2014. Was at my friend's shop until end of Nov 2014.

Time spent (APPROX) during that time: 250h (not counting my friend's time)
Time spent since then: 600h+ in 47 weeks of work (not approx, that's precise. 610-615, would have to check my notes)

I will hit 2000h for sure.
Funny thing is that kit can be built in 250h, according to FFR. OEM FFR... not VR6 like mine.

[Speedy G]

Haha, yeah right, fitment issues...

[choobs]

Always good to see progress! You could have probably gone without the flex section of your exhaust since the engine is now mounted longitudinally vs transverse. Did you leak test the welds? I saw a few areas where I would drill back the weld and lay down a small puddle one heat setting up on the welder.

[Frank818]

I did leak test the welds, but not on the exhaust pipe yet. Got more to weld on there, I'll wait till the end and cover up any leaking area, if any. That awesome 90-deg ultra tight elbow welds very very nicely. I welded my O2 bung today and it was a lot easier than my IC bungs and BOV flange on the intake (slightly different SS).

I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame, so the engine will move left-right, very slightly (my polyU engine mounts don't allow for much movement although they suppress vibrations extremely nicely).

The WG pipe is a pain to design and fab.

This week I hit a wall on my throttle cable. I never thought about that but since I cut 2 cables I had to attach them together, the thing is, if you cut the cable sleeve, which is made of metal inside, you lose all the tension of the cable. This means when I press on the pedal it actually twists the cable and move it around, instead of pulling the inner metal cable which opens up the T-body. Damn, that was a low hit on me, never thought of that one coming.

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So I found a way around, you have to attach tight both ends, like this:

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Now the cable doesn't move and when I press it pulls right away. The 2 alu swages seem to be very tight in place, should last.
Not a good looking solution, I'll have to better attach both sleeve ends and hopefully find a plastic or metal tubing I can place around the bare metal so it's not exposed. I think it won't harm if it is, though.

One thing to note, Tamra mentioned that already and fixed the issue, FFR badly designed the angle on the pedal side, right where the cable goes through the alu panel at the front. The angle of the cable is too much downwards, which means the cable grinds on the metal fitting, it's more annoying than problematic, but I'll see if there's anything quick and dirty I can do about it. Craig doesn't have any CNC part for this and I don't want to spend time designing something. I already design too much around! lolll Might leave it as a winter project in 2017.

[Scargo]

"I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame..." I would not have any of it solid. Something will crack. It all needs to float/have flexibility.

[Frank818]

"I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame..." I would not have any of it solid. Something will crack. It all needs to float/have flexibility.

That really is a no go for me. I don't have the clearance. If the muffler moves, it will hit the gearbox on one side and the frame on the other. Besides, Porsche fix solid their mufflers to the frame, as I've been told.

However, I will still use these hangers in order to remove vibrations:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Category/Exhaust-Hangers/Verocious-3-8-Universal-Exhaust-Bracket-w-Rubber-Grommet

These are the ones that came with the FFR kit as well.


Welded back the crossbar I cut to fit the engine. Of course it's almost of no use now in terms of torsion but it's gonna be used to support some components, like overflow tank, for example.
On that same pic you can see where I welded the O2 bung. As close to the turbo outlet as possible.

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Here's a weld on the crossbar. Was not easy with the engine in place, especially on the left side (pictured).

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I don't understand what changed on the website, I can't have the pictures to show in thumbnails anymore. :(

[Hindsight]

Frank, I think the pics are too big to show inline. There is some filter on the site where up to a certain point, it shows them inline but go beyond that and it automatically shows them as links. You can shrink the pictures before posting or you can upload to imgur and then embed the imgur link from here. I do that, and when I do, I paste the link to the "huge thumbnail" version of my pics which is the perfect size for inline display here. Also prevents me from having to manually resize everything.

Build is looking good! I can't wait to get to the exhaust on mine.

[Scargo]

That really is a no go for me. I don't have the clearance. If the muffler moves, it will hit the gearbox on one side and the frame on the other. Besides, Porsche fix solid their mufflers to the frame, as I've been told.

However, I will still use these hangers in order to remove vibrations:

http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/Shop-by-Category/Exhaust-Hangers/Verocious-3-8-Universal-Exhaust-Bracket-w-Rubber-Grommet
Then, it's not solid. Cool beans. Good luck!

[Canadian818]

Hey frank, where did you source the hose for your remote reservoir?

[svanlare]

I can't comment much on the welding, other than to think I should have bought a welder for this project as I would have found many excuses to use it!

But there was a thread recently on how to get images to look the way you want them too in the general section (I was looking for the dates for Huntington Beach next year, normally I only look at the 818 board).

[Frank818]

Frank, I think the pics are too big to show inline. There is some filter on the site where up to a certain point, it shows them inline but go beyond that and it automatically shows them as links. You can shrink the pictures before posting or you can upload to imgur and then embed the imgur link from here. I do that, and when I do, I paste the link to the "huge thumbnail" version of my pics which is the perfect size for inline display here. Also prevents me from having to manually resize everything.

Build is looking good! I can't wait to get to the exhaust on mine.

That's probably it!! I'll test it next time, tnx for reminding!
You'll see that the exhaust is somewhat bigger to work with than wires. loll




Then, it's not solid. Cool beans. Good luck!

Ok good, tnx for confirming! It's true with some rubber it's not really metal to metal. Overall I can't allow much than 1/4" of movement. Unless I find a kick a-ss solution while installing the muffler.



Hey frank, where did you source the hose for your remote reservoir?

My remote reservoir? Which pic is that? The red hose on some pix?



I can't comment much on the welding, other than to think I should have bought a welder for this project as I would have found many excuses to use it!

But there was a thread recently on how to get images to look the way you want them too in the general section (I was looking for the dates for Huntington Beach next year, normally I only look at the 818 board).

Yes you should have, my project would have been halted or cost me a lot of money more just to get someone do the welding and having someone come home to do it, which is even more complicated. Besides I can weld at 3 or 4h in the morning (which I do), I don't think too many people would do it for me! :) The welder is as useful as my ratchets, screwdrivers, hammers, vice and other mandatory tools.

Yeah I totally forgot about the size limitation, I'm sure that's the problem.

tnx guys!

[Frank818]

Oh Adam! The brake remote reservoir? I can't recall taking a picture of that yet as I haven't reinstalled the master (was leaking), but those hoses are black, if it's what you referred to?

[Canadian818]

Oh Adam! The brake remote reservoir? I can't recall taking a picture of that yet as I haven't reinstalled the master (was leaking), but those hoses are black, if it's what you referred to?

Yes that's what I was referring to. I'm not going to bother with what was in my kit from Mike after hearing your experience. So I was wondering if you had sourced some as a replacement. And if so, where from?

[choobs]

I prefer to keep a flex section as my muffler will be fixed solid on the frame, so the engine will move left-right, very slightly (my polyU engine mounts don't allow for much movement although they suppress vibrations extremely nicely)..

Yeah you need SOME flexibility in the system so the flex section and rubber grommets should be just fine.

[Frank818]

Adam I just used some fuel lines. Similar to those provided by FFR. If it supports fuel, it can support any other car fluid. I got them from Car Quest.

[Hindsight]

Frank, Fuel hose won't last long with brake fluid. You want EPDM or butyl rubber. Mcmaster has it.

[Canadian818]

Adam I just used some fuel lines. Similar to those provided by FFR. If it supports fuel, it can support any other car fluid. I got them from Car Quest.

And it's holding up fine? A quick Google search had me thinking fuel lines were no good for brake fluid.

[Frank818]

EPDM hoses are used for both oily liquids (glycol, brake fluid, etc.), and volatile liquids (gasoline, kerosene, etc.).
Been almost 2 months with the hoses on and they look absolutely perfect. I've manipulated them a lot today and no issues at all.
Don't use the softer lines, you need the harder ones. Not the full hard but those just before.

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The brake fluid I use is Racing DOT4, thought it was DOT5.1 but no, DOT 4.

But maybe 2 months is not enough. You got me thinking... I'll try to remove them and see inside if they decompose.

Yes you got thinking a lot. Actually I cannot determine 100% if the hoses are EPDM. The short 1/2" ones on the reservoir are, cuz they are heater hoses and heater hoses are EPDM. But the longer ones, 3/8 I think, I cannot tell for sure. Damn. If I have to remove ONE more time that stupid brake system, I ditch the remote reservoir and go back to OEM. I installed/removed the system 5 times, 5 times with the windshield on (I am alone) and lemme tell ya, it is a freakin PITAAAAA that makes you swear a lot. I won't do it 2 more times, so one more and I convert back to OEM. If I can't determine if my 3/8 lines are EPDM, I remove and convert to OEM.

[Canadian818]

That's what my googling confirmed that it needs to be EPDM. Now to source some.

[Frank818]

Took a decision. I'm freakin sick and tired of playing around with the remote reservoir, all the time lost on that thing is equal to probably 20 times the time of removing the dash and underdash alu panel if I had my OEM reservoir in place. Since I will change fluid about once per 10 years, that's enough. I'm removing all that setup and going back to OEM reservoir.


In the meantime, I installed the body!!
Ok, just half of the engine covers. :) I could see the clearances and it will fit everywhere without needing to support the cover higher. I will still do it to give more clearance. The best part is that the front section of the cover with the lip facing down fits in FRONT of the engine! That's the one I thought would hit on top of the cam cover, but not at all.

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I am also changing my throttle cable solution, I made a huge mistake. Stay tuned for a picture pretty soon.

[Frank818]

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You can see the shape of the spindle, that's where the bubbles and dirt come up to the surface.

And here's the rear spindle (Forester 2000, that is) after a few hours in the bucket:

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This is how the spindles, taken from a Forester 2000, looked before:

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Hey Frank, you are really a stupid damn a**hole, Forester 2000-2001's spindles are NOT compatible with 2002-2007 WRX/NA. Forester 2002+ yes.
They will all bolt in fine! Hubs, back plates, FFR IFS bracket, bearings, seals, everything. Even the OEM WRX CVs will seem to work ok! But... they don't. They will interfere on the center hole which is 2.65" and WRX's is around 2.9".

I will have confirmation of that tomorrow morning and if I am right, be prepared to get your a** kicked by me.

[Canadian818]

Hey Frank, you are really a stupid damn a**hole, Forester 2000-2001's spindles are NOT compatible with 2002-2007 WRX/NA. Forester 2002+ yes.
They will all bolt in fine! Hubs, back plates, FFR IFS bracket, bearings, seals, everything. Even the OEM WRX CVs will seem to work ok! But... they don't. They will interfere on the center hole which is 2.65" and WRX's is around 2.9".

I will have confirmation of that tomorrow morning and if I am right, be prepared to get your a** kicked by me.


Watch out for this guy frank, he's mean!

[Mechie3]

It's funny, I started to read and thought "man...who is this guy?". Then I saw it was Frank. lol.

[AZPete]

I enjoy your thread Frank, especially "Alter-Frank". I need that guy in my garage to kick me into action to finish a few things and get legal!

[Frank818]

Watch out for this guy frank, he's mean!


It's funny, I started to read and thought "man...who is this guy?". Then I saw it was Frank. lol.


I enjoy your thread Frank, especially "Alter-Frank". I need that guy in my garage to kick me into action to finish a few things and get legal!

Yeah I have to do something to keep laughing, otherwise I would be so depressed. :)

In the end it turned out my other set (03 NA) has 2.6" center hole as well. I just don't understand. I will have to shop for some other spindles.
So if my other set doesn't have 3", it means I won't kick my bott? lolll

In the meantime, here's how angled the shafts will look at full compression:

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The good news is I have enough clearance between the small tube and the shaft, as per my fingers (I have 1.5 fingers thick of play or so).

The axles' angle is my biggest compromise on this kit. There is nothing I could do to make it better.

[Frank818]

FIXED!!!!!!!

I knew something was fishy when my mech measured the center hole when I called him yesterday. It just didn't make any sense.

Well I went to the shop, measured myself and tested the shaft in. Actually as soon as I grabbed the 03 NA spindle I knew it was right!

Look at the 2 center holes! Ok the spindles are not in the same orientation but you can clearly see the rusted on has a larger top center hole and it leaves less metal on the edges.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47824&d=1448147534&thumb=1 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47824&d=1448147534)

So I'm good, any Impreza, but the STI, from 02 to 07 will have correct spindles.

@AZPETE, according to post 712 it means I need to kick my bott! loll

The only thing is I have to grind the bottom where the long lateral bolt slides in, cuz the CV clip hits on the spindle (kind of odd, but it's an easy fix).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47825&d=1448147555&thumb=1 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47825&d=1448147555)

Now I need to buy more bearings, seals, reinstate my Bucket-o-Doom to derust the spindles, clean, paint, remove backplates, hubs, install on 03s, etc. At least I found it and it's fixed, just need to reinstall parts. Car won't run until Spring 16 for sure.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Frank,
How much axial movement does your inner CV joint Have?
I'm not familiar with that type.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Be really careful with the rear backing plates. As I'm sure you know, they locate the rear brake calipers and when pressing old bearings out and new bearings into the spindles, it's real tricky to do it without bending that backing plate. The plate has to be on before you press the hubs in. I bent my backing plates a bit doing it; not enough to be a major problem but until I replace those plates (which requires replacing the bearings as well), I'll never get full use out of a set of rear brake pads because the inside will wear out before the outside one. The spindle is just an awkward shape and there isn't a good way to make it sit flat in a press.

[svanlare]

Nice to get it figured out, even if it means a new trip to the BOD. Mine is still on the side of the house, in case I'm not done with part cleaning.

[Frank818]

Frank,
How much axial movement does your inner CV joint Have?
I'm not familiar with that type.
Bob

Well, so far after fitting 1 axle in a yet-not-ready-spindle-but-enough-to-get-the-hang-of-it, it seems I have enough play on all 3 axial dimensions, up-down, front-back and side-side (inner CV extension). Which axial movement exactly were you referring to?


Be really careful with the rear backing plates. As I'm sure you know, they locate the rear brake calipers and when pressing old bearings out and new bearings into the spindles, it's real tricky to do it without bending that backing plate. The plate has to be on before you press the hubs in. I bent my backing plates a bit doing it; not enough to be a major problem but until I replace those plates (which requires replacing the bearings as well), I'll never get full use out of a set of rear brake pads because the inside will wear out before the outside one. The spindle is just an awkward shape and there isn't a good way to make it sit flat in a press.

Good point. The plates look ok and as straight as they were before, I'll mention that to my mech when he's change again the bearings, especially the new set will go on the other set of spindles which required removing and reinstalling the plates.


Nice to get it figured out, even if it means a new trip to the BOD. Mine is still on the side of the house, in case I'm not done with part cleaning.

Yeah you never know when this might come handy again!

But plz, I highly suggest anyone not to make a mistake about spindles, it's a pain to play with those all the time and a full set of bearings/seals costs USD$100 with shipping to CAD.

[Frank818]

Made some progress this w-e, after removing all the stress about the spindles.

Custom throttle cable bracket to reinstate the cable's tension (not pictured yet), custom overflow reservoir bracket (tnx to my new bench grinder), oil cooler and exhaust. I just need to secure the muffler in place and finish the exit and it's done. Oh crap, the dump tube as well, it will merge just before the muffler, that is a very nice but complicated challenge. Not a problem, just a challenge. I got my parts from Verocious, I'll see next w-e what I can do about that. It'll be a very compact exhaust, all made by myself which I never did before! So far the SS welding is going on really good! I can't say how important that welder is for the build.

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It's impressive how I (and we) can reuse old parts and brackets, modify them and make them look like new parts. There are some 25yo parts I was reusing, some others I had severely modified and yet here's a second life for them! Who would knew...

[choobs]

Always good to see progress Frank, that angle on the axle shafts looks a little dicey!

Sidebar: I may be picking up a 92 Corrado SLC at the end of the week. If I do, it may also become a 3.6VR host before moving one to an 818 :P

[Frank818]

Yes it's dicey to me, but according to DSS and my friend's racing experience it should be ok. I haven't found anyone yet on google running such an axle angle setup, so it's hard to see real world experiences. The good news is the axles on the inner CVs always tend to push forward on acceleration, so the stress is on the right direction.

Instead of swapping the 3.6 in the C and then in the 818, you might want to skip the intermediate step. :)

Send me pix of the car if you get it!

[Frank818]

I've got a lot of pix coming around the corner, but I want to wait a little more until I complete a few other things.

In the meantime, I blew off an edge of the dump tube bellow when welding to the flange, it's inside the pipe, do you think I should weld the hole (fill it) and grind the bead to make it flush or leave it that way?

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[Hindsight]

As long as it's sealed on the outside, it's so small that it just comes down to your knowing it's there and being able to live with it.

[Scargo]

Agreed. It's so inconsequential, unless you're really anal, just let it be. The exhaust: why not straight out the top rear?

[Frank818]

Ok I thought having such a small hole the high heat would light up orange the edges of the hole and could cause... whatever, something, backfires or other things. Good to know it's bull**** and I can leave it be.

Can't do straight, the turbo's outlet is too big and needs to deviate immediately otherwise it would hit right on the manifold's integrated WG-ready exit. It needs to deviate back of the engine or down, there are no other ways out (well, up, but through the deck lid? lolll). Manifold 100% made for the engine in a VW engine bay (totally illogic to go anywhere but downwards in a VW).


Welding Q again. What about this situation? Never thought it would be possible, but after welding the $USD42.00 2.5" long bellow to my thick flange (WG), this one bent! Like, you put your indexes on both bolt holes and your thumbs in the middle close to the 1.5" hole and you press. It will V/U bend the flange (if you are very very strong lolll), well that's what happened to my flange, it's not flush anymore, even a gasket is not enough to fill the distance on the edges.

What should I do? I don't want to torque the bolts hard as I could strip the threads.
I could heat up the flange with a torch and torque it at the same time?
Or spend another $42.00 with a new bellow and pay someone to TIG weld it on my backup flange...


I could get half that distance cuz on the pic the left bolt is flush to the manifold's flange, so I could have a small distance on the left side and reduce by half the distance on the right side, but even though I have 1400C copper caulking, I don't know if the temp in that area can be higher or if the caulking would sustain the pressure.

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[Kurk818]

Perhaps glue a sheet of sandpaper to a flat surface (glass, mdf, etc) and sand it flat.

[Canadian818]

Get a flat file and put some elbow grease to it. My 1/2" turbo flange warped a ton and I had a thick blank bolted to it.

[STiPWRD]

Put it on a belt sander or better yet find a shop that can fly cut the top surface. You've got enough thickness there in the metal to remove some. An engine shop or a place that resurfaces flywheels could turn this around in short order.

[Frank818]

Good ideas.
I was so damn surprised it warped like this. Man look at how thick this crap is and the damn bellow is so much thinner but had nothing!

I could try with my bench grinder and finish it off on a flat file or sand paper glued to flat surface, but I think I'll ask my mech to bring it to his guy for a quick flat precise cut, shouldn't be too expensive and would save me a lot of time. On this build, time is more important than money, at some point, unfortunately.

[choobs]

Get a flat file and put some elbow grease to it. My 1/2" turbo flange warped a ton and I had a thick blank bolted to it.

Flanges like these heat up very very quickly. You almost have to weld an inch, let the assembly cool, weld an inch, etc etc etc. It really cuts down on the need to flat file afterwards. That said, I have flat filed my share of flanges too and it can be time consuming...but it gets the job done :)

[Canadian818]

Flanges like these heat up very very quickly. You almost have to weld an inch, let the assembly cool, weld an inch, etc etc etc. It really cuts down on the need to flat file afterwards. That said, I have flat filed my share of flanges too and it can be time consuming...but it gets the job done :)

I agree completely agree, but do you know how long it takes for a 1/2" flange to cool? I don't have the patience for that.

[RM1SepEx]

You have to stitch weld it to distribute the heat, just like welding up a fender patch. It's still quicker than repair after the fact

I'd add heat to the assembly and then tighten it up. Basically warp it straight

[Frank818]

Whoa, I've worked a lot lately! Basically I work at work, work on the car, eat, sleep. That's all.

Flange, yeah I tried heating it with a torch it worked a little, but came back to warped form afterwards. I might need to heat it more.

Anyway, here's what I've been moving on lately :

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercars/video-watch-4500bhp-quad-turbo-v16-engine-go-mad-dyno

Yeah I want that in my 818. More on youtube, it's worth looking at a couple of vids!!

Seriously, I've been doing this!

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[Frank818]

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My downpipe certainly will be a lot more efficient than my original one on the Corrado. It wasn't easy to weld the dump tube at 45-deg, I poked 2 holes but thank god I was able to fill them in. This will flow so much better, I'm sure I'll have more power. I am quite proud of the DP I made with my bare freakin hands and welded it myfreakinself.

Then on the muffler supports, I bent SS bars, cut them, welded them, aligned them totally perfect in a way that the muffler, at normal position, will NOT put any stress on the flex bellows. It worked!! And the rubbers are quite firm, the muffler moves maybe 1/16 no more. That too I am very proud.

Now I have moved to wiring, I am completing what's left of it apart from lighting (no body yet), plugging all the devices, attaching the wires on the frame, etc. It's very crowded on the driver's side where my wires are in the engine bay, I have a couple of sensors, ISV, etc., it's very hard to bolt my stuff, sometimes I have to remove 4-5 things in order to bolt one. But it works.

Steps before 1st start:
1- Getting my rear spindles ready
2- Completing wiring
3- Plugging wiring
4- Finishing coolant lines
5- Stiffening throttle cable
6- Upgrading my InfinitBox with new rules
7- Installing shift cables
8- Fixing shifter brackets
9- Installing tunnel cover and rear ebrake cover
10- Completing AWIC tank support bracket
11- Bleeding brakes
12- Fixing and bBleeding clutch
13- Filling engine with oil
14- Filling trans with oil
15- Filling engine with coolant
16- Filling AWIC with coolant
17- Upgrading ECU to latest software
18- Tuning a few ECU parms
19- Testing wiring
21- Fixing DSS CV issue
22- Replacing front spindles
23- First start!

Ok, that's more steps than I thought. lolll

I have 14 days off in a row during X-Mas and plan on burning 100-110h. I should almost complete the above list.
I'll update the list (striking out steps) once steps are done.

[AZPete]

Very nice work on your exhaust, Frank. You have come a long ways and learned some good skills! Considering the Devel video, I think you can get your creation to 4,000 HP, or maybe just a lowly 3,000, eh? With 2 weeks off I look forward to seeing your progress.

[choobs]

Can't wait to hear it fire up in 2 weeks if everything goes according to schedule! That exhaust routing was no easy task for sure, lots of tight bends...glad to see you got it done how you wanted!

[Frank818]

Wow, what a time. I did work over 100h on the car in the past 2 weeks (60h in the 1st week). However, I am still waiting for 3 parts and with those in, all my 20 tasks list in post 737 would be completed.

I had to move on other things, like redesigning the rear shock tower brace! Which I did, I am very proud of the result. Took about 20h!
I also took time to fix little issues, some mistakes I made or stuff not designed and fabed in a way I was happy (or in a way it would hold on while driving).

I won't upload pix today, I have too many, need to sort them out and need time to upload. Will update at some point in time.

Damn I used that welder so much! My clothes smell welding, still.

[Canadian818]

Good to hear frank, sounds like your so close!

[Hindsight]

Congrats Frank! I can't imagine having 60+ hours to work on the car. I'm lucky to get a 3 hour chunk once a week.

Looking forward to seeing that custom cross bar.

[svanlare]

Very much looking forward to the photos and the video of the first start! I ended up snowboarding (we finally have snow in CA) instead of checking off my list-to-first-start. Not sure I can put in a 100 hours in the next couple weeks, but hope to be not too far behind the rest of you.

[Frank818]

I actually burned 105h in 13 days to be exact. Curiously "only" 45 in the 2nd week, I don't know where I lost those 15 but hey it's awesome anyway. It's really awesome to work on a day and tell yourself "ok, that thing I'll do it tomorrow, I need to finish this one first today and in 2 days I'll fix my mistake about this part". Different feeling than saying "ok I can't work on this part until next week, I'll fix my mistake next month once I really need to fix it, hoping I won't forget". The progress is so much quicker and you can keep a nice pace at it with fresh memory of what you just did and where you are going to.

On the crossbar I realized I welded it a little too high and I need to curve half an inch the sides of the hump deck lid to sit on the top side crossbar flat brackets. Compromises again, on one side it's perfect for the engine clearance and breathing, on the other it might cause body fitting issues. I have 3 ways to fix this, a small quick fix with little results, a medium one and long drastic one. It's just a matter of time. I'll wait and see once I fit the body.

I learned 2 things while doing that crossbar: First, how to cut proper angles (I didn't fix the improper ones, don't think it's required) and second, that even if you tack weld parts and it fits well bolted in place, once you do the full welds it may compress the lenght. I had to cut the bar in half and add a 0.5-1in portion to make it the correct lenght again so that the bolts would fit in. Learning, learning. :)

I have to sort out the pix and upload them soon, I can have something almost go-kart completed.

[wallace18]

Glad to hear about your progress. Sure have put a ton of work into your kit. The end result should be something to be proud of, IMO.

[Frank818]

Tnx!

Yeah I busted 1200h since May 2014 already. I think I have another 500-750h to invest.
Those of you who played with bodies already might know how many hours in average it requires. Then I have the interior finish and all the details/added stuff everywhere else on the car. But it's moving!

[Frank818]

This is how I fixed the stupid throttle cable in order to keep it under tension. Crappy way but after all that it works pretty well without moving. I think it will last.

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This is the ATE DOT4 TYP200 brake fluid after using non-EPDM rubber lines on the remote reservoir. Liquid should be yellow, not brown. I ditched the reservoir and I am now 100% stock.

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This is my hot side coolant lines and cold side lines solution. On the cold side I reused a hose piece of the Corrado to make the bend in S shape. It worked like a charm. Also that piece does the reducing from 1.25in to 1in (Corrado inlet size). I had to cut the FFR hard line and aim it upwards in order to keep the hoses from touching the control arm brackets or the transverse link. That route was the best I could get and it fits superb.

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This is what I had to do on the shifter cables for the one at the top. It was slightly rubbing on the brake metal piece the one where you attach the brake cables too. I had to make the space between that piece and the shifter cable larger. It is very tight in there.

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This is my VW OEM aux coolant pump (works while car running AND after-run, to keep coolant flowing and preventing heat soaking (also great to circulate through turbo after-run)). That pump has a complete control, I will have 3 devices controlling the pump, the ECU, a manual push button and a temp sensor; those last 2 can work even if IGN or ACC are not on (meaning when you are away from the car).
You can also see the hot side coolant lines bending 90-deg and going down, just besides the exhaust on the right that you don't see.

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My spindles!! I will install them tomorrow Sunday. It looks like it's all going to fit, although the axle nut threads only into half of the threads, not tightened. Of course, I will put a cotter pin on the axles.

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[Frank818]

Not proud much of that one, it was very hard to get the distance right, but I made it and I used scrap metal (free).
What is it?? Oh, a throttle pedal stop. :)

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That is the most beautiful bead I have (and ever will!!) done!!!

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The rear shock tower brace. You can see the deck lid sits too high but I have a few ideas to fix it IF I ever need to.

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Better view of the brace and its clearance. I had to raise it enough so that it would clear the coil pack plug and cam sensor plug. The brace was RIGHT ON the damn plugs! What are the odds hey... well with such a project the odds are always against you, so.... loll With such odds I could win the US 900 million Power Ball! I'd give money to all of you guys!!!

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No pic yet of the entire engine bay far away for a nice big picture of the result, cuz I am waiting for 3 coolant parts in order to finish the coolant lines around the turbo. Once that's done, I'll take pix of the go-kart!

Still waiting for my InfinityBox parts to arrive, once I get them I can test the wiring (it's ready aside from those parts). I know I'll have a lot to test, especially the cluster, it's all wired differently than OEM and uses commands from the Subaru column too, to activate some OEM VW stuff. Plus, once it rolls, I have to see how I can recalibrate the speedo, cuz my wheels at 10% higher which means about 10% showing faster on the speedo than real speed. The easy way to fix this is to move the needle, physically. I go at 100 on the GPS and then I push the needle with my finger either way it needs to move to show 100 (kmh). The downside is that the % difference is not constant, so at speeds other then 100 I will still have a difference, but still less. I did that already with my older tires on the Corrado. Good old mechanical ways of doing things. lolll

[svanlare]

Frank, I have infinity box parts I didn't use if your's haven't shipped yet.

[Frank818]

Right, again. This w-e was a w-e where I was dismantling the car and going back to Neanderthal. I have hit 4 issues and some are not pretty.

1st issue
The axles still don't fit!!!! God damn ****ing **** of my damn ****ing ***!!!!!!!! **** that **** ****!!!!!!!!
Although the real 2003 spindles make the wheels turn freely (the others were tight and I never thought it was normal), the CVs still don't fit in!! Looks like the 2nd inner seal, the larger one with a dome, is preventing the CV from sliding in. I have sent pix to DSS. I am really, really, really totally speechless on the issue here. Is DSS using only 2 seals?? I have asked.

2nd issue
My disks wouldn't fit on the hubs!! For some reason, the new longer studs I installed weren't aligned straight so I couldn't slide the disks on. I had to hammer gently on the tip of 1-2 studs of each side in order to straighten then. They fit in now, but not as easy as it should. I believe it's ok as the studs will be bolted with the rim and lug nuts, but it freaked me out.

3rd issue
I can't bleed the mother ****ing clutch. My friend gave me a kit that I use with my 100psi compressor and it sucks air and liquid from the lines, but it sucks nothing! So it sucks!! loll I can't bleed that clutch.

4th issue
My front spindles are NOT the right ones!! They are incompatible, like the older rear ones I had. Not surprising as they come from a non-compatible donor. Stupid me!! I am the stupidest ******* on Earth. Remember 1.5years ago I mentioned my front wheels (along with rears, but those are fixed) where so tight to spin they could barely do a 1/4 turn by themselves and that they were making a rubber rubbing noise? I never thought that was normal. My mech told me "Nah, it's nothing it'll wear out when you drive". Well no the spindles are not the right ones, so things don't fit properly. Check out the pix, the rusty ones are the 2003 spindles and the others are 2000. The 2000s have the ABS sensor at the bottom and the 2003s at the top.

Plz tell me your front spindles have ABS sensors at the top and look like the rusty ones? They have a different center hole too.

I thought my major issues were fixed, but no, the axles are the worst as I have no solution and no root cause either!
For the other 3, time and money will fix them, which means, after these 4 issues, I am postponing my completion date to Spring 2017. I don't think the axles will get fix until many months.

All this is very discouraging, although I admit the front spindles are my mistake. The axles are by far the most discouraging issue I have encountered so far. I just don't want to work on the car, now. :(


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