Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[C.Plavan]

The octane depends on the track. There is usally 100 and 110 or 112.

No need to go to 400 HP. That would put me in Super Unlimited. Then there is that transmission thing.

[longislandwrx]

37273

never too late to scrap it all and buy a Corvette!

get ready for the powah!

[C.Plavan]

I will never drive a Corvette since I'm not have/having a mid life crisis, thick gold chain, Hawaiian Shirt, and not bald (yet)........ haha Porsche's and Corvette's don't get along.

I got my custom exhaust back from getting ceramic coated. I went with the dark ceramic like my headers etc. Its good to 1600 degrees (500 more degree's than the silver). Overkill maybe.

I built this off an Invidia Divorced Bellmouth pipe I had. I sent the other exhaust back since it was not a bellmouth. I had to make a slight kink in it to clear the wing mount down bars. It will go straight out the back like the others.
http://i.imgur.com/b3tX2Ipl.jpg

[Brando]

I will need 2 race tunes, one for ST2 (around 270HP) class and one for ST1 (around 360HP) class. They are both HP/weight classes. That way, I can just pick who I want to race with if one class has a bigger field for tire contingencies.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15375-Who-is-planning-on-running-NASA-ST-classes&p=165480&viewfull=1#post165480
Didn't we figure out a few months back ST1 would be 405HP for 2200lb?

HNY bro

[C.Plavan]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15375-Who-is-planning-on-running-NASA-ST-classes&p=165480&viewfull=1#post165480
Didn't we figure out a few months back ST1 would be 405HP for 2200lb?

HNY bro

Yes, but my car is not 2200 pounds with me in it. ST2 will have more cars it looks like. I will have another look at it.

[C.Plavan]

I looked at it again- I figured out why I chose 360HP- I figured that I would need bigger tires than the 245 limit. Once you go to bigger tires (250 to 275) the factor is +.03 not +.07 like the 245 or smaller tires. If I run the same tires I could have 390hp @2200 pounds. So I might as well go 390 for the ST1 tune :).

The ST1 calculation on that other link is off. That's not what the NASA excel calc shows when I enter the same numbers. (or Calc is off after using it a few times- Paper is better)

[C.Plavan]

I finished installing the Fire System. Once I finish the Fuel Cell Firewall, I can plug in the last spray nozzle. 6 total nozzles in the 4.0L Spa kit.

http://i.imgur.com/qrddLEil.jpg

Passenger side pulls-
http://i.imgur.com/rhJOGUAl.jpg

Passenger Fuel rail/Turbo area nozzle. (I have 3 in engine area)
http://i.imgur.com/378zeVVl.jpg

Center
http://i.imgur.com/dSWDVSnl.jpg

Driver coverage & Driver Pull-
Lower waist/legs on left, torso/waist on right
http://i.imgur.com/K2LBzWyl.jpg

Now on to making that Firewall.

[C.Plavan]

Firewall sides are done. Now on to the top.
http://i.imgur.com/hg1rarVl.jpg?1

[Scargo]

Looks good. Looking forward to seeing it finished. How is it filled?

[C.Plavan]

Looks good. Looking forward to seeing it finished. How is it filled?

Thanks.

I already have made a 1/2" lip around the top. I also made the aluminum tighter on the sides than in the picture I posted. I will rivet a top on and have a little hatch on a hinge to flip up to fill.
Hose or funnel/jug. With the side rollbar, you get a workout filling with jugs. Most of the time I just drive over to the pump and fill.

Later on, I plan on being able to fill it from the outside passenger fender. I'll deal with that later since I will need a different fill plate and quick fill female port.

[C.Plavan]

Almost done. I'm not liking the shiny hinge for that fueling door. I'm going to order an aluminum one from Mcmaster Carr.

Gear shift is in 5th, so there is plenty of room. I plan on adding some SFI padding on the side and top edge for added safety.

http://i.imgur.com/tM8fliWl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nUNxd7Yl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c4TdCrEl.jpg

[Scargo]

Thanks for sharing (and paving the way). I'm liking it.
I will be doing similarly. Sloshy buddy sitting next to me.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks- Its turning out better than I hoped.

I got to mock up the rear exhaust mesh with my $4 trim ring. I still need to paint the ring with high temp paint, then rivet (with rivet washers on back). I also need to razor the gobs of silicon off also.

http://i.imgur.com/U93NW2Yl.jpg?1

[Frank818]

Ebay? :)

[C.Plavan]

I spoke with the Yimi Sport Tuning today. The soonest I can get the car there is Feb 16th. I was hoping it was sooner, but work has been getting in the way. I hope there is a cancellation before then that I can work with. I wanted to test a couple more times before the first race.

I have to see if Blouch offers a 10 or 12 psi wastegate to bolt on to the turbo. He says with the stock wastegate on the DOM 1.5 he cannot get under 300hp (I need around 270-275hp for ST2 class tune). I never thought I would be trying to shave HP off :)

For the ST1 tune he said with my 2.5L, 272 cams, 110 octane sky is the limit :) . Unfortunately, I only need 390-400hp depending on the weight.

Stay tuned (no pun intended)

[C.Plavan]

I painted my exhaust trim ring ceramic black and mounted it today to the mesh. I also reinstalled the exhaust. Looks Great for $4!
http://i.imgur.com/NXGPqRWl.jpg

[C.Plavan]

Long time, no update:

I finally had time to finish the Fuel Cell enclosure. It's all riveted up with its door and vent. I ran the level sender wires also. I just need to drill another hole in the dash for the fuel gauge and install that.

http://i.imgur.com/lDUhUvBl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/CSyoUxrl.jpg

I need to get some flat SFI padding and put it on the drivers side. I might cover the top in vinyl to minimize glare.

[Frank818]

Really nice looking finish, well built.
You're not hopping in your gf for a ride though, but it isn't meant for that!! lolll

[C.Plavan]

3rd brake light install (LED)

http://i.imgur.com/lIhc1DOl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/B2JOVGml.jpg

[Hindsight]

Hey Chad, how do you like the accelerator pedal position now that you've had a chance to race with it? It looks like it's about a half inch or an inch forward of the clutch/brake pedal.... is that about right? Do you find you can heel-toe well with it? If you moved it now, would you move it more forward or more rearward?

Thanks

[C.Plavan]

Hey Chad, how do you like the accelerator pedal position now that you've had a chance to race with it? It looks like it's about a half inch or an inch forward of the clutch/brake pedal.... is that about right? Do you find you can heel-toe well with it? If you moved it now, would you move it more forward or more rearward?

Thanks

It seems pretty good. If you watched the video of the shakedown test at the race track, you can see me rolling and jabbing my foot to rev match. I did not feel a need to change it after the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZwXqS2ljwI

[wallace18]

Beautiful job! You should be proud.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks!

Winching it up for the Dyno/Tuner tomorrow. 3 hour drive one way.......
http://i.imgur.com/xAjJSSvl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s3z3KUPl.jpg

[GUNS]

I want your trailer....

[C.Plavan]

I want your trailer....

I hear ya. I had a POS trailer for 10 years. I had this custom built 3 years ago (22ft box with v nose)..... Why did I put up with the POS trailer for sooo long! A/C, Insulated (Sleep at track), Cot, Microwave, coffee maker, outdoor BBQ, Generator, TV, DVD, cabinets, wireless remote winch, in floor spare tire storage. I still want to add an awning.

[C.Plavan]

They are starting to do their Magic.
http://imgur.com/d4s6pKN

http://i.imgur.com/d4s6pKN.jpg

[Pearldrummer7]

Oh man. This is so awesome. You must be beyond excited!

[Scargo]

Yes. Dyno time! Sticker tires, too. I'm so far behind.
I see my buddy with a rig like yours. Has a remote control and doesn't need my help (for that).
Me: I ask for guidance, if anyone's around to help get me onto the trailer straight. Sometimes they're not worth the asking (if you know what I mean).
But I get to show off my car coming and going...

[Frank818]

Are we viewing a live 818 dyno :)

[Hindsight]

Can't.... quite..... read..... numbers.....

[Kurk818]

Curious to see the final numbers...

[C.Plavan]

Nothing too exciting to report since I'm not going for all out power. I'm trying to fit within HP/weight rules of certain race classes. We ended up just doing one tune, since I would be racing ST2 this year- This turbo is really for ST1 (Easy 400hp limit I needed). Regardless, I should of bought a smaller turbo! lol Have you ever heard anyone say that? At first it was making way too much HP for me to be legal in ST2. I really need a 18G for an ideal setup for ST2 class. That will come later.

I bought a 12psi wastegate actuator as it was suggested to lower the HP of the DOM 1.5- Even with that lower actuator, the minimal number he could get was 317hp with pulling timing etc (pump 91). I needed to be at 280 to 285hp with the current 818R weight to be class legal.

This is where they came up with an ingenious solution which they had never done before. Not ideal, but it will get me through the race in two weeks, or until I buy a smaller turbo. I was around 280hp at 6k rpm, then from 6K to 7k rpm it would climb to 317HP with all the detuning. Luckily, I have an electronic throttle. After some brainstorming, we tried lowering the throttle pedal map to cut throttle position after 6k RPM. After about 6 dyno runs it was perfect. So basically, I will have the throttle floored and once it gets to 6k RPM, the ecu slowly backs the throttle reading down to 53% throttle position. So from 6k to 7k hp is flat ~280. I'll be shifting normally at 6500. Its pretty seamless, not ideal- but there are some pro's and con's. Torq is pretty flat from 3.5K through 6k (257 TQ)

So that is it in a nutshell. Its very interesting trying to cut power instead of adding it. I will eventually get a smaller 18G, but my wife has been giving me the Stink Eye for how much I have been spending recently. I have noticed alot of "Revenge" spending on Lululemon stuff......

Side note- Even with Wayne's coolant mod, I had air bubbles in the system that I thought I got all out. They showed me the correct way to burp the system (with this http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-24680-Spill-Free-Funnel/dp/B00A6AS6LY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1424193691&sr=8-2&keywords=coolant+filler) I know someone posted it before, but I would not burp the system without one. Now my temps are around 15-20 degrees cooler.

Detuned graph.
http://i.imgur.com/mQrT7WVl.jpg?1

[xxguitarist]

On the up side, you probably have one of the best area-under-the-curve plots allowed by the class, that can be quite helpful for skipping a short down & right back up shift.

[D Clary]

That is the funnel I use. I tried vacuum but it did not fill totally. I just filled from the degass tank until it came out the radiator fill, capped the radiator and kept filling. I was very patient but I am sure it is full, took almost 4 gallons I think with awic

[metalmaker12]

That is the funnel I use. I tried vacuum but it did not fill totally. I just filled from the degass tank until it came out the radiator fill, capped the radiator and kept filling. I was very patient but I am sure it is full, took almost 4 gallons I think with awic

Same here, the funnel is the only way to get it right.

[Wayne Presley]

Chad, did you think of running more boost down low to make the 280 from 3500-6500 rpm? It would stay at the ST2 power at every shift.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I did a comparison torque chart of my dyno run compared to Chad's.
My 04 stock 2.5L FXT engine w/TDO4 turbo / stock tmic / cated exhaust /stock tune.
As we are running similar Boost levels. Why is Chad's torque higher?

EDIT: EODTech87 in the next post corrected me. The line I charted for Chad's boost, was really his Air/Fuel Ratio.


38857

[EODTech87]

It looks to me like you used the chart he posted for boost. When in fact that lower line is his Air/Fuel Ratio.

[Wayne Presley]

Bob, your turbo runs out of airflow on top and Chad's does not. The torque fall off on top is a combo of cams and CFM of your TD04

Chad, you can just put a smaller turbine housing on the turbo you have and get it to spool up faster. Then use the boost control solenoid to run more boost down low and taper it off to the WG spring up high. You could end up with 280 HP from 3500-6500 and still be within the rules

[C.Plavan]

Bob, your turbo runs out of airflow on top and Chad's does not. The torque fall off on top is a combo of cams and CFM of your TD04

Chad, you can just put a smaller turbine housing on the turbo you have and get it to spool up faster. Then use the boost control solenoid to run more boost down low and taper it off to the WG spring up high. You could end up with 280 HP from 3500-6500 and still be within the rules

That sounds like an awesome plan.

[longislandwrx]

I looked back and saw you are running the 10cm housing. Like Wayne said, there's an 8 that would make sense. ( I think there's even a 7 if you can find one)

http://www.prospeedracing.com.au/products/Blouch-RBK-Dominator-1.5XTR-suit-01%252d07-WRX%7B47%7DSTI-and-08%252d11-STI-with-7cm-Rear-housing.html

magical.

[C.Plavan]

Yeah- I'll probably just keep this turbo on the shelf if I ever decide to run ST1. I'll do more homework next time and forget trying to have 2 different racing class tunes on one turbo. The tuner did say and 18g with 8cm would be ideal.

[Evan78]

I did a comparison torque chart of my dyno run compared to Chad's.
My 04 stock 2.5L FXT engine w/TDO4 turbo / stock tmic / cated exhaust /stock tune.
As we are running similar Boost levels. Why is Chad's torque higher?

EDIT: EODTech87 in the next post corrected me. The line I charted for Chad's boost, was really his Air/Fuel Ratio.In general, a larger turbo will flow more air than a smaller turbo at a given pressure. Even if you had the same exact setup, using a better flowing exhaust will net more power at the same boost level.

[Aero STI]

For 280 HP and quick spool I would not recommend an 18G. If you navigate over to blouch's site, they rate the 18G-XT or 18G-XTR (ball bearing) at 430HP and the 1.5XT-R that you have at 480 HP. The lb/min difference is pretty small.

Back in 2006/2007 I was making 380 AWHP and 400 WTQ on a EJ205 and an externally wastegated 18G running 110 leaded. It made 330 WHP on 93 and didn't spool that quickly by today's standards. I would shoot for something a little smaller that you can operate in a very efficient range.

A VF-34/39/42 would probably serve you very well for the desired power levels. The VF-39's are dirt cheap too.

Alternatively, you could use an EFR 6258. In a twin scroll configuration with your motor it would spool super quick and hold power on the top end. Check out the bottom of this page to see relevant subaru info.

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbos/borgwarner-efr-6258-turbo-2.html

[Scargo]

The EFR 6258 may be at the top of my list for turbos right now. Check out this Matchbot tune using it on a 2.34L motor. (http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com/aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.34&CID=142.7868&altitude=400&baro=14.543&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=62k80&pt1_rpm=3500&pt1_ve=85&pt1_boost=21&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.08&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.5&pt1_ce=70&pt1_te=85&pt1_egt=1550&pt1_ter=1.78&pt1_pw=22.02&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=15.5&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=1&pt2_ce=76&pt2_te=85&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.69&pt2_pw=39&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5250&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=11.5&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=1.3&pt3_ce=72&pt3_te=82&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1.64&pt3_pw=45.74&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=6500&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=7.5&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=1.5&pt4_ce=63&pt4_te=81&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=1.58&pt4_pw=50.61&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=7000&pt5_ve=105&pt5_boost=5.8&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=1.8&pt5_ce=50&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=1.67&pt5_pw=46.35&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=8000&pt6_ve=105&pt6_boost=4.3&pt6_ie=90&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=2&pt6_ce=45&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.64&pt6_pw=50.12&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) There's tons of wastegating on the higher end. Not sure if that is problematic or not. It is a water-cooled turbo.

[Tamra]

We are pretty excited about our Borg Warner. However, they will require modification of the cross brace, whereas some of the VF series probably won't. We went with the externally wastegated, oil cooled, Airwerks series. It was quite a project since we custom built our up-pipe (Full Race will not split the header and up-pipe package [which is $$$$ too], and their up-pipe probably would not have fit anyway, as we have very tight clearance on everything to shove that 25lb monster turbo in there). We had to go rotated to make it work, and we bought the 51mm S200SX... one of the smallest available.

The VF37 twin scroll would be fun, and you can buy drop in Subaru kits. I think Metalmaker ran this turbo with out any fitment problems, but confirm with him to be sure.

[metalmaker12]

We are pretty excited about our Borg Warner. However, they will require modification of the cross brace, whereas some of the VF series probably won't. We went with the externally wastegated, oil cooled, Airwerks series. It was quite a project since we custom built our up-pipe (Full Race will not split the header and up-pipe package [which is $$$$ too], and their up-pipe probably would not have fit anyway, as we have very tight clearance on everything to shove that 25lb monster turbo in there). We had to go rotated to make it work, and we bought the 51mm S200SX... one of the smallest available.

The VF37 twin scroll would be fun, and you can buy drop in Subaru kits. I think Metalmaker ran this turbo with out any fitment problems, but confirm with him to be sure.

I did and still have it. It is not completely toasted either, would run pretty good but needs a rebuild. I would have still used it but there hard to find a place that does them anymore. If you find a place I will sell it cheap to ya bro. Than you just need a jdm twinscroll header and uppipe which are cheap money all over the place.

[Mitch Wright]

I posted a Want to Buy ad on NASIOC classifieds and had a number of responses for a JDM Twin Scroll Header and up-pipe. Bought one for $500.00 in really good shape.
I have been told by Wayne and others that the JDM header was hard to beat, now that I have it I can see why. It is a nice manifold.
I found a number of JDM Twin Scroll (VF37) turbos, Header/Up Pipe and intercooler plus hardware for around $1000-1500.00

[JeromeS13]

+1 for the VF37 twin scroll setup. If you like torque, slap it on an EJ25. :-D

My dyno chart for a reminder:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t43/JeromeS13/Project%20818/photo_zpszxc6tu2m.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/JeromeS13/media/Project%20818/photo_zpszxc6tu2m.jpg.html)

[Aero STI]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWr2AVGrQSU

[metalmaker12]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWr2AVGrQSU


I know all about it, I was only just making 300 whp with my v8 ej207 Vf37 twinscroll. I have tuned the car 0-60 in the 3.5-4.0 and 0-100 in the 7 second range


https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=LL-1knjw5JkOUHMSE81ZiF5w&v=aJhazON5PsE

[C.Plavan]

OK- This thread is not turbo talk..... I'm not going for all out power..... I have to fit HP/WT class.

[metalmaker12]

OK- This thread is not turbo talk..... I'm not going for all out power..... I have to fit HP/WT class.

Sorry, I was trying to say that 280- 300whp is a great number for any 818, so using a Vf twinscroll is a great cost effective solution.

[C.Plavan]

Sorry, I was trying to say that 280- 300whp is a great number for any 818, so using a Vf twinscroll is a great cost effective solution.

It's alright. I like the suggestions, I just didn't want it to turn into a turbo Pi$$ing match thread. :)

[Mitch Wright]

Agree the VF Twin Scroll is a great solution, I am in the same boat trying to fit in to ST2. I am running a stock 2.0L with TGV deleted so I am starting off with a less power potential. But I think the point is with this set up it will spool up quickly and can pull boost to control peak power.
The reality is you have a boat load of options that will get you where you want to be.

[C.Plavan]

Agree the VF Twin Scroll is a great solution, I am in the same boat trying to fit in to ST2. I am running a stock 2.0L with TGV deleted so I am starting off with a less power potential. But I think the point is with this set up it will spool up quickly and can pull boost to control peak power.
The reality is you have a boat load of options that will get you where you want to be.

You have to ask yourself though with the quicker spooling (I should say lower RPM spooling), Do you really need that with a road racing car? I do not think I will be below 3.5K RPM's on the track with the 5 speed with 4.11 FD.
I understand the twin scroll, but with HP limits, some of the benefit would be diminished. The quicker spooling over 3.5K rpm would be great, but what is the real benefit on a HP limited road racing car? I guess that is what testing is for.

[Mitch Wright]

We road raced Eagle Talons both FWD and AWD back in the day in the World Challenge and Escort Series. I can say especially the FWD cars were much easier to drive and produced faster laps with very little lag and early spool up.
That has been my experience, I will say technology/electronics have come a long way since the early-mid 90's when we ran those cars. But we had more than adequate budgets and did a lot of dyno and track testing for validation.

[Evan78]

I have a VF-36 on my Saabaru at the moment. It spools quickly and transient response is phenomenal. My full setup is from a JDM V9 Spec-C Type RA. On E85 and 24 PSI it makes 350 WHP and a similar amount of torque. It gets up and moves pretty good. I think an 818 would be a thrill with a VF36/37/42 twin scroll setup. Imagine the acceleration with 1300 less lbs.Is this on a 2.5L or JDM 2L engine? What muffler? Sounds fantastic.

[Aero STI]

Sorry if there is too much turbo talk, I was just trying to add insight into the suggestion offered by your tuner. I would not get an 18g turbo for your application. Agreed that on track the revs will be up, but twin scroll is not just about initial boost onset (spool), it's about transient response, or quicker transitions from negative to positive manifold pressure. Ball bearings and low inertia wheels also help both.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Chad
Is there a reason you run the Martini colors?
I want to see a picture of an 818 levitating like this picture.
Bob
38912

[C.Plavan]

I'm currently testing at the track. So far so good. I'm probably going to need a bigger oil cooler. Oil is getting to 240ish, my AWIC alarm went off for a second (set for 140 degrees). Concerning since its 61 degrees outside. It's usally in the 130 range.
3 sessions down on the slow tires with a crazy 30mph headwind. Got to a 1:32, but my goal is to get to 1:28. I hope the wind dies down.

I bled the AWIC from the bleeder screw, is there anything I'm missing?

[Mechie3]

Do you have sensors for the water? It would be help to know water temps before/after the HE and the AWIC.

[D Clary]

Are you cooling fans on? I usually turn mine on at the start of a session so I don't have to think about it. If you wait until they come on with the thermostatic control they sometimes have a hard time catching up. Also the intercooler may need the cooling before the engine. I noticed mine just running in the shop the oil temp climbs much faster than my Mustang. I am thinking that the design of the engine lets more heat into the oil. 240 is right at the top of my comfort zone. Does the fan on the oil cooler come on thermostatically also? Might start with it on as well. The only other thing that I thought of was closing off the area beside the HE and radiator forcing the air to go through and not around. Good luck and have fun. DC

[C.Plavan]

The only sensor I have is right before the intake that I tapped into the AWIC core. I'll try taping off the HE gap to the radiator.
Oil fan has temp switch at 180 degrees and is working.
First radiator fan comes on at 192 I believe. I'm going 100mph plus, so fans don't matter really.

[Hindsight]

Aside from bleeding the AWIC, I agree with D Clary on blocking airflow around the outer edges of the heat exchanger (basically sealing it to the radiator).

I'm wondering how much flow the radiator and HE are getting...... IE are the hood vents and gill vents enough to cause sufficient low pressure behind the radiator? Also, do you have all the aluminum panels in the radiator area installed and if so, how well are they sealing the radiator? Should be pretty air tight in there.... air should only have one place to go and that's through the rad.

I think adding more sensors is going to be warranted. Pre and Post AWIC for air temps, and the same for water temps. The pump may also not be delivering enough flow for your purpose. There are better pumps available but they aren't cheap. If interested I can dig up a link to a comparison of AWIC pumps. I have it saved somewhere.

[Wayne Presley]

Make sure you do not have any kinked hoses restricting flow. What sensor are you using for measuring the temp and did you check the calibration?

[metalmaker12]

I can't wait till it gets warmer so I to can fully test the vcp awic. So far it's run pretty good, but it was in the 50's ambient and I did not get the iat temp past 90 after staying in boost for long pulls. I am suspect it will perform ok in most cases, hopefully in all. But think more boost will result in more problems.

[C.Plavan]

Just went out for another session, it got to 132- but it was sub 130 for 15min.
No kinks.

I'm using the GM sensor in the AWIC. I used the voltage diagram I found on the internet for my data logger. Wayne, do you have the voltage specs (calibration) so I can double check?

Btw- don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood. I almost lost the hood after a huge gust of wind going down the front straight. I taped the front good all the way down. I'll come up with a better solution later.

[D Clary]

Even at speed the fans will help direct the air through the radiator. At 100 plus you are also creating a lot more heat, particularly in the turbo which intern heats up everything else.

[Scargo]

I'm envious of you having track time in the car. What are your feelings about the handling?
I hope everyone knows about turbo blankets. They are a must have in an STi if you track it. I am going to ventilate the rear a lot and I will wrap everything that gets hot back there.
You might look at Jerome's build. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?7233-JeromeS13) He worked a lot with pumps for the AWIC.

I'm not going to use them but I curious exactly what happened with the Qwik Latch. I am probably going to use an Aerocatch on each rear corner of the hood.

[Mechie3]

He has a blanket and my heat shield.

I saw some independent testing of the bosch and meziere pumps and it showed under no load the meziere did best but drops off quickly under load and does the same or worse than the bosch.

[Hindsight]

I'm envious of you having track time in the car.

Yeah, pics or it didn't happen! ;)

[D Clary]

I am going with the hood pins on the hood. Probably some reinforcement like I did on the trunk. There is a lot of force on it and not much structure.

[Wayne Presley]

Chad, the easiest way to check the calibration is to see if all your sensors read the same temp first thing in the morning.

[Wayne Presley]

I made a hood hinge on the front and QuikLatches on the back of the hood for just that reason.

[Santiago]

Chad, when you say "don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood" can you explain how exactly they failed or approached failure? I'm thinking there are at least three modes of failure that might have different resolutions:

1. The locking mechanism failed
2. The mounting method of Quik Latch to chassis failed or was incorrect
3. The area covered by the Quik Latch (esp. mini) was too small and damaged the fiberglass hood

[EDIT] Now that I think of it, there's a 4th mode of failure: The number of latches were insufficient for the size of the hood, making the span between fixed points too broad, leading the panel to flex excessively.

I'd be surprised if it was #1, since they report and rate the mini at 150 lbs pulling force - that's each. How many did you use for the hood? I really like their profile (and price) so I was thinking of using 6 for the hood.

For #2 & #3 have you inspected the hood to see if it is damaged or the latch itself is mounted and adjusted properly? Let us know - hell, let me know; I was really looking forward to using these.

Best,
-j

[C.Plavan]

Ill answer that stuff when I have more time. But the the pin grab is what popped off. Must of been more than 150pounds of pull. Tape solved it for now.

I'm overboosting again. But I'm able to manage it mostly. Throttle will cut. After the first practice, I'm mid pack with a bunch of Corvettes. They pull me in the straights when I'm trying to manage the overboost. Hopefully it won't be that bad when it warms up a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/VmlJqH6.jpg

[D Clary]

Was thinking about your oil temp. I don't know about your turbo, I have Turbonetics ceramic bearing turbo in my Mustang. they require very little oil. There is an .050 orifice going into the turbo. If you have un restricted oil flow the turbo could be overheating the oil. That could easily raise the temp 10 to 15 degrees.Just a thought. You may check with your turbo guy. What is your boost set to? maybe you should let it creep another pound. It is possible it wont go any higher.

[Scargo]

I'd say that two seconds off the lead time is not bad for a new car you are sorting out.

[metalmaker12]

Just went out for another session, it got to 132- but it was sub 130 for 15min.
No kinks.

I'm using the GM sensor in the AWIC. I used the voltage diagram I found on the internet for my data logger. Wayne, do you have the voltage specs (calibration) so I can double check?

Btw- don't trust the Qwik Latch for hood. I almost lost the hood after a huge gust of wind going down the front straight. I taped the front good all the way down. I'll come up with a better solution later.

130 in 60 degree weather is not great, we want like 90-100 max in those temps and 140-150 max in any temp. Obviously the colder the better.

[C.Plavan]

Rain came in after qualifying. I broke the Willow Springs Sub 1:30 barrier. 1:29.2. I'm pretty excited about that. Not too shabby for a car not 100%. I really hate this boost creep crap.
Race is at 2:05, no way I'm racing a new car in the wet. I might be done today.
http://i.imgur.com/dwKFVRc.jpg

[Santiago]

Very promising Chad! Half the ST2 field behind you and half in front, with you definitely in the hunt. Too bad the rain came, starting the race with the 4 front running cars in the class all lined up would have been great! Looks like nice racing to be had.

So you're about 1-3/4 seconds behind the ST2 leader (damn Corvettes!). I don't know how well sorted and seasoned the leader is in your class, but I bet you can shorten that substantially once the car is dialed in and you're more comfortable with it. Keep it coming!

Signed,
- Living Vicariously

EDIT: Oops! Misread the sheet. Still promising, but more to work through though...

Ok, so you're within 2.3 seconds of the front runners - except for that one guy - there's always that one guy who's got speed from who knows where...he's 3.8 seconds ahead on a short track...damn fast. That's still a nice cluster to race in if the gap can get down to around 1.5 seconds. Lots to happen in that range.

I'm still living vicariously...

[C.Plavan]

Thanks- it will only get faster. I look at it as being 2-3 seconds off developed, full blown Viper race cars and a 997 Porsche Cup car.
I'm estimating the boost creep ECU throttle cut is costing me about 2 seconds a lap. It happens about 3-4 times a lap if I'm not lifting to blow off the pressure. Not a fun way to race the car.
I'm also going to have to figure out this AWIC temp thing before next race in April. The overboost is probably not helping the AWIC temp.

Btw it just started raining again!!!! Boooooooo

[metalmaker12]

Awesome job, you will be right up there with them once your dialed in and for a fraction of the cost too. Awesome. I would think you should get it sorted by then. Awesome news bud!!!

[bbjones121]

Get an external wastegate on there and hit the track again. Can wait! Awesome progress. Thanks for keeping us all updated.

[Hindsight]

Agree with the others... that is very promising and I have no doubt you'll shave a couple seconds off easily. You have a lot of tuning and adjusting to do. Plenty of places to find that extra couple of seconds or even more. Looking forward to watching it happen!

[Mechie3]

For the AWIC, I wonder how much airflow comes in through the bumper opening vs how much goes through the HE. Mine is sealed at the top against the frame rail but there is room on either side of the radiator and underneath for air to go around. The fins are also tipped down vs oncoming airflow. I've thought of adding a small lip on the bottom aluminum to deflect airflow up and prevent it from slipping underneath.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks guys. Just got done with qualifying. It was slippery from the rain, and I had my skirt on. Not sure where I qualified yet, but probably not good. I only managed a 1:31.
I'll probably make an aluminum duct on the nose, or block off all the escape routes once I get home. Never thought I would have so much boost creep with a Blouch turbo with 10cm.... I'm going to be calling them.

[metalmaker12]

Thanks guys. Just got done with qualifying. It was slippery from the rain, and I had my skirt on. Not sure where I qualified yet, but probably not good. I only managed a 1:31.
I'll probably make an aluminum duct on the nose, or block off all the escape routes once I get home. Never thought I would have so much boost creep with a Blouch turbo with 10cm.... I'm going to be calling them.

What kind of boost controller do you have? this plays a huge role. also how much boost you running ( less than 15psi). the efficiency range of that turbo is 18-25. since your running much lower I suspect the turbo is starving for boost and creeping up to try to get it. I have never run a 1.5 below actuator 15 psi but I can assume this is your issue. 19psi-21psi on that snail is what it likes, unfortunately it puts you way over the power level you want. As you know a 18G or smaller is what you need to make less power.

Stickshift84 has a 16 or 18g, I can't recall what he got, but he might work a deal with you. PM him.

[Mitch Wright]

Impressive first race outting Chad, your reports are great motavation as my R is coming together.

[Frank818]

For a second I thought "Jeff" Gordon was just in front of you. :)

[longislandwrx]

nice job.

[Wayne Presley]

Chad, did you log the IAT at the MAF too? I'm wondering if you are getting hot air into the motor to start with. I have an 818 R customer that never got over 130° MAT at Sebring on a 75° day. On the dyno I never got above 104° on a 77° day.

[FFRSpec72]

I run with Zack George in the ST3 Vette here in the NW, he is running 10:1, he should have some video to share

Here is the video from Zack's ST3 Vette (10:1) which started behind Chad. https://vimeo.com/120994689

[C.Plavan]

Chad, did you log the IAT at the MAF too? I'm wondering if you are getting hot air into the motor to start with. I have an 818 R customer that never got over 130° MAT at Sebring on a 75° day. On the dyno I never got above 104° on a 77° day.

Yes- The hottest it got from my Accessport was 124 degrees at the MAF- but that included sitting for a bit. I'm hoping it is just the over boosting causing heat. During the Sunday race the IAT had no alarms, no nothing. It got to 130 for a bit, but other times it was down at 111. it was a little colder. It seemed when I was really pushing it with the boost creep cutting throttle, the hotter it got. The boost creep was peaking at almost 25psi- the tune was for 19/20psi.... I started to manage it more by lifting on the straights in 5th gear...... very frustrating. It would do it in 4th too, but I could short shift.

Then my car did not like 5th to 4th downshifts- I could not find the gear which cost me big time in the race. Gotta love the gremlins. It was still fun though, car has alot of potential. on Sundays race I finished 9th overall (22 cars) 6th in class. I guess you can say it was the first 818R raced on the West Coast :)
http://i.imgur.com/PJHbRNY.jpg

Punch list:
1. Fix overboost one way or another.
2. Duct and seal off HE better
3. Install bigger oil cooler with fans
4. adjust shift linkage
4. Run Hoosier A7's instead of R7's for qualifying and races (that what every single ST2 car had, or slicks)

[AZPete]

Thanks, Chad, for the info and videos. You are carrying all of us with you!
The video by Zack George is very cool, especially at 25:09.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks, Chad, for the info and videos. You are carrying all of us with you!
The video by Zack George is very cool, especially at 25:09.

No worries- hopefully you guys are learning from my issues.

I'll post a video of the start later. I got a pretty good one. Then the new car issues started up. Then I could not concentrate because I was worrying about the oil temp (150), boost creep, IAT- my eyes were all over the place. On the tighter tracks we race, even with the boost creep, those Corvettes would of been in trouble. It was a pretty boring race after I could not get the car in 4th for what seemed like forever on turn 9.

I'll also add, you need the aero peices for your helmet..... I will be grabbing a set for my helmet. I also developed Aero push towards the end of the race with the fuel going down. I will take 1 degree out of the rear wing. Also make sure your set screws are tight on your coilovers and mark them

[Wayne Presley]

Yes- The hottest it got from my Accessport was 124 degrees at the MAF- but that included sitting for a bit. I'm hoping it is just the over boosting causing heat. During the Sunday race the IAT had no alarms, no nothing. It got to 130 for a bit, but other times it was down at 111. it was a little colder. It seemed when I was really pushing it with the boost creep cutting throttle, the hotter it got.


So the air going into the turbo was 65°F above ambient???? :eek: I'd really say you need to feed the motor cold air more than better ducting on the HE...

[C.Plavan]

So the air going into the turbo was 65°F above ambient???? :eek: I'd really say you need to feed the motor cold air more than better ducting on the HE...

That was at a standstill

[Wayne Presley]

What was it running?

[Scargo]

If this is where you have the CAI then you need to move it. It's your photo.
39275
It needs to be isolated and sucking only cool air. In my STi (and as is common with many racers) the CAI is down in front of the passenger wheel... really out of the engine bay.

[C.Plavan]

If this is where you have the CAI then you need to move it. It's your photo.
39275
It needs to be isolated and sucking only cool air. In my STi (and as is common with many racers) the CAI is down in front of the passenger wheel... really out of the engine bay.

I'll add that to the punch list

[metalmaker12]

So the air going into the turbo was 65°F above ambient???? :eek: I'd really say you need to feed the motor cold air more than better ducting on the HE...

I agree, getting the pre turbo temps down will obviously help. Heat wrap in intak/inlet should help. It seems the engine bay temps need to be controlled more. Heat wrap, and a fan to draw heat out along with more air venting. Btw I am impressed with what you did with a car that had boost creep/cut etc. once we get this damn thing sorted it is going to be a freaking track beast!!!

[Speedy G]

That's funny. All those problems and you still managed to be in the middle of the pack with the wrong tires. Wow! Also, thanks to you, I can now say that the 818 is faster than a radical Sr3. :p

[Brando]

wow, you broke 1:30 at WSIR? That's moving. That's awesome Chad congrats.

[Wayne Presley]

1:30 is fast at WSIR, I've done a low 1:29 there but I spent most of that time on 2 wheels :D

[C.Plavan]

wow, you broke 1:30 at WSIR? That's moving. That's awesome Chad congrats.

Yep. Thanks. That is probably the only thing that kept me sane that whole weekend. I was chasing my tail with all the other stuff. I did learn alot. I could of kept it in 5th all the way through 8 & 9, and still get sub 1:30. I'm not use to Aero or torque :)

[C.Plavan]

1:30 is fast at WSIR, I've done a low 1:29 there but I spent most of that time on 2 wheels :D

Anything seems fast on 2 wheels. haha

It is on paper, but like I was telling my other vintage racing buddies, it doesn't seem fast with aero. The fastest I ran in my 2.5L non aero Porsche was a 1:32. You are sawing at the wheel just to keep it straight. Turning left to go right! ... I still think I need to learn to trust the down force more on the 818R.

I did have a little tank slapper coming down the hill in the race. I channeled my 911 experience and saved it. I lost alot of momentum and the Porsche got by me..... then I could not get it into 4th around turn 9. I'll post that clip.

[Brando]

I did have a little tank slapper coming down the hill in the race. I channeled my 911 experience and saved it. I lost alot of momentum and the Porsche got by me..... .
The backend of turn 4? That's the hardest part of that track to nail in my experience. Big elevation changes, late apex and you don't want to mess up 5 and blow that back straight. I'm getting a rush just thinking about it. I'm glad someone sacked up and got their 818 on the Big Willow. I'm still working up the confidence in my car mechanics, aero and mostly myself.

I'm really curious how the balance felt in turn 2. Did you notice any instability or were you planted? 4th gear? Can't wait to watch the video.

[Wayne Presley]

Anything seems fast on 2 wheels. haha

It is on paper, but like I was telling my other vintage racing buddies, it doesn't seem fast with aero. The fastest I ran in my 2.5L non aero Porsche was a 1:32. You are sawing at the wheel just to keep it straight. Turning left to go right! ... I still think I need to learn to trust the down force more on the 818R.

I did have a little tank slapper coming down the hill in the race. I channeled my 911 experience and saved it. I lost alot of momentum and the Porsche got by me..... then I could not get it into 4th around turn 9. I'll post that clip.


I did it in a 24 hour MC race on the old paving where turn 8 was Mr Toad's wild ride. Ran a low 1:29 in the day and a 1:30.2 at night.

[C.Plavan]

I did it in a 24 hour MC race on the old paving where turn 8 was Mr Toad's wild ride. Ran a low 1:29 in the day and a 1:30.2 at night.

You are officially crazy in my book. haha

PICS!

http://i.imgur.com/LSp8NoMl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ExN3zWyl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JXjhwBXl.jpg

[C.Plavan]

Warning this video get very boring after the 4 lap or so.... lol

Wrong tires, missing 4th gear downshifts, boost creep, lifting to try and eliminate boost creep on straights, watching the oil temp constantly(250), but still fun. BTW- This thing is VERY thirsty with gas! I can't wait till its sorted.

The 818R will dominate 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear tracks against the Corvette's. You can tell on the great start I got.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irI9JXBFCnY

[FFRSpec72]

The 818R will dominate 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear tracks against the Corvette's. You can tell on the great start I got.


Not so sure about that, Zach was running 10:1 in ST3 class, but all-in-all glad to see the car running well, things will get sorted out and then the fun begins, nice job !

[C.Plavan]

Not so sure about that, Zach was running 10:1 in ST3 class, but all-in-all glad to see the car running well, things will get sorted out and then the fun begins, nice job !

No doubt in my mind it the 818R will dominate shorter (straights) technical tracks (Buttonwillow, Sonoma, Laguna will probably be equal). I got both Zach and the BMW back before the end. Patience :)

[Scargo]

Fun to watch! Nice save, too. It's obvious you are not using all the track all the time.

[C.Plavan]

Fun to watch! Nice save, too. It's obvious you are not using all the track all the time.

It basically turned into a test session. I had to moniter all the temps since it had never been on track over 20min at once.

[yertle]

Hope this isn't too OT, but my buddy was out there racing wheel to wheel for the first time in his new race prepped vette - #20. He had a blast. I do HPDEs in my WRX and almost joined him for the weekend experience, but didn't make it. Wish I had because I've been eyeing building an 818S or R and would love to talk to you about yours. I've never seen one at the track. When is your next track day?

[metalmaker12]

Warning this video get very boring after the 4 lap or so.... lol

Wrong tires, missing 4th gear downshifts, boost creep, lifting to try and eliminate boost creep on straights, watching the oil temp constantly(250), but still fun. BTW- This thing is VERY thirsty with gas! I can't wait till its sorted.

The 818R will dominate 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear tracks against the Corvette's. You can tell on the great start I got.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irI9JXBFCnY

From watching this I can't believe you did so well considering your redline set so low and the what seemed like boost cut constantly. Your a pretty damn good driver to be able to adapt to the distractions.

[bstuke]

Glad to see your hood wobbles around like mine...

[bstuke]

PS. No restraints? That would never fly here..

[D Clary]

Looked like he had restraints to me. Nice job Chad. when do you come up north?

[C.Plavan]

PS. No restraints? That would never fly here..

Arm restraints? I have them on.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great Job Chad,
I have watched sections of your video 4-5 times. Very quick hands at the 4 min mark.
Do you have any comments on Brakes?
Any tire rub?
Thanks for posting this.
Bob

[Hindsight]

That 997 though! What class was he running in do you know? Thing was crazy fast.

Finally got time to watch the vid and looks great. Obvious that you have a lot of distractions and things to do to get fully sorted, which is a good thing because it means a lot more seconds to shave off.

How do you feel about the balance of the car? Is it pretty neutral?

[tmoretta]

Is that the rear of the hood bouncing about? Is anyone dealing with that by stiffening the hood etc.?

[C.Plavan]

Thanks guys- It will get better with time.

That 997 is in ST2 also. He was fast. He finished 3rd that race.

Yes, there was tire rub on the inside of the front fenders. I had to raise the car in front a little bit more at the track. I have 17x8 38 ET wheels with 225/40 R17 Hoosiers on the front now.

Willow Springs in not a big braking track, but ever since I swapped to my favorite race pads after the Buttonwillow test, everything is much, much, better

135+MPH will make any fiberglass hood bounce about with the way these are mounted. I taped down the hood for added safety, I may just run the hood pins on the front portion of the hood instead of the Qwik Latches.

Next race is at Buttonwillow in 6 weeks. Hopefully, everything will be better with the car.

[longislandwrx]

good thing you have that private track to dial it in.

[bstuke]

Arm restraints? I have them on.Did I mention I'm going blind?:cool:

Great job Chad.

[C.Plavan]

OK. I just talked with the tuner. For the solution for the over boost, It looks like we are going the EWG route and keeping this turbo in the car I ever want to run ST1.

"With an EWG I can guarantee that we can dial in the exact boost profile that we are looking for and I can increase midrange boost and taper it off at the top to yield a long, flat plateau of power at 280-284whp.

Now I need to start looking into these EWG systems. Anyone have any experience with manufacturers?

[Mechie3]

I've had good success with grimmspeed products and used their uppipe before. They have an EWG version of it.

[Tamra]

Awesome video! It's great to see an 818 in the wild :)

(and especially one that made it home whole)

[305mouse]

I had the Grimmspeed ewg 38 ewg setup on the Saabaru. perfect fit.

[Hindsight]

Anyone have any experience with manufacturers?

Not personal experience but a LOT of research and talking with a local tuner who always has about 20 GTRs and a bunch of Subies in their parking lot says that Tial are fantastic. They are what I'd run.

[Scargo]

Tials are good. You might want to consider this water-cooled one (http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/62-mvsx). It was suggested as an option for me, where I will have a huge amount of wastegate action, as I keep power under 270 WHP to 8K+ and try and keep the low-end (torque) maxed-out.

[metalmaker12]

Tial

[Evan78]

What was all the hand waving just after the start?

[C.Plavan]

What was all the hand waving just after the start?

Waving yellow because Viper and Porsche just crashed in front of us. (Split start). I didn't want to get nailed from behind.

[C.Plavan]

Tials are good. You might want to consider this water-cooled one (http://www.tialsport.com/index.php/tial-products/wastegates/62-mvsx). It was suggested as an option for me, where I will have a huge amount of wastegate action, as I keep power under 270 WHP to 8K+ and try and keep the low-end (torque) maxed-out.

Thanks- just curious where to tap the coolant connections from?

[apexanimal]

tial ewg's are pretty much the go-to...

[JeromeS13]

I'm a huge fan of TurboSmart products, myself.

[C.Plavan]

Do I want the 44/45mm Grimmspeed up pipe/ EWG set up even if I have the stock headers? Or the 38mm version? Remember I have the Blouch DOM 1.5.

I'm thinking about getting the 44/45mm so I can use that Tial MV-R 44mm EWG

[bbjones121]

I mentioned an EWG back in post 1085 or so. An external will be huge benefit to you, but if you want to do it right, i would not weld your Dom internal wastegate. Sell it and buy a turbo without the internal wastegate cavities. Get the vband 38mm tial, you will have better resolution/control for a dom 1.5 sized turbo. It is like sizing a control valve, too big and you cant control properly. Obviously double check with the turbo manufacturer to see what size they recommend.

Here is some info for you, but consider the date. This was written before the vband 38.http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190530

[Scargo]

I would agree that you would be better off with the right turbo. Twin-scroll! Garrett GTX2867R or BW EFR 7064 with external wastgates come to mind.

[longislandwrx]

I'm a huge fan of TurboSmart products, myself.

agreed, the 40mm is a nice product for $300

no need to weld, just order with the adjustable bracket

39348

[Scargo]

I would agree that you would be better off with a more appropriate turbo. Twinscroll! Garrett GTX2867R or Borg Warner EFR 7064 with external wastegates come to mind.
Look at this Matchbot (http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.5&CID=152.55&altitude=500&baro=14.502&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=70s75&pt1_rpm=3000&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=23&pt1_ie=95&pt1_filres=0.1&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0&pt1_ce=66&pt1_te=75&pt1_egt=1550&pt1_ter=1.96&pt1_pw=13.41&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.5&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=3500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=23&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=0.1&pt2_ce=70&pt2_te=73&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=2.04&pt2_pw=21.83&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.5&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=4000&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=20.4&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=0.2&pt3_ce=74&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=2.02&pt3_pw=31.73&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11.5&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=5000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=14.7&pt4_ie=92&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=0.2&pt4_ce=76&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=1.87&pt4_pw=40.85&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=6000&pt5_ve=105&pt5_boost=9.5&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=0.2&pt5_ce=72&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=1.74&pt5_pw=48.8&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=7000&pt6_ve=105&pt6_boost=7.2&pt6_ie=88&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=0.3&pt6_ce=66&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.7&pt6_pw=52.54&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) prediction where you get almost 500 FPT on pump gas with the 7064! Your up to max HP at 22 PSI @ 3700 RPM. Wastegating only gets to 52% at 7K.

[C.Plavan]

Now I'm all confused. lol. Not sure my 245 rear tires (limited width for rules calc for ST2) would be capable of that torque for very long.

[tebriel]

In terms of what size EWG you want, it depends on turbo size and how much boost you'll be running. A larger waste gate will be able to vent more exhaust if you are running lower boost. I would think turbosmart and tial are pretty equal in quality from what I've seen.

[Scargo]

That's correct. If you look at Matchbot numbers it says what you need.


Turbine Match Outputs


Exhaust Manifold Pressure
psi
13.9
15.3
15.2
13
11.1
10.7


Engine Delta Pressure (dP)
psi
9
7
5
2
-2
-3


Turbine Swallowing Parameter
PHI
0.0284
0.0287
0.0286
0.0279
0.0269
0.0267


Turbine Corrected Flow @ 59F
lb/min
20.4
20.5
20.5
20
19.3
19.1


Is the Wastegate Flow Choked?
`
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
No


Wastegate Flow Area @ CF=0.9
in2
0.18
0.4
0.58
0.84
1.13
1.3


WG Port Diameter Requirement
mm
12
18
22
26
30
33


To be clear, the EFR 7064 comes in internally wastegated and externally wastegated models (http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-7064-turbo.html). The externally wastegated one is what I tuned the Matchbot calculations for. The others have a smaller turbine side (a/r ratio housing). none are going to hurt you, but the smaller ones will spool a little faster on the low-end. You are certainly not left wanting at high RPMs with any of them. It's only that the turbo only offers an externally wastegated version in the larger, 1.05 a/r ratio turbine side.
If you pick an internally wastegated one then you pick the EFR Wastegate Canister to match the a/r housing you select (I would do the .83=179285, 179286, or 179287).

You may just have the wrong vacuum canister on the Blouch! Did the tuner discuss this possibility?

[Tamra]

I think there's something wrong with the Blouch... it really shouldn't have boost creep like that. Could it be something with the exhaust back pressure being different than on a Subaru or something?

The Borg Warners are going to be overkill for his horsepower goals.

[D Clary]

You may be right on the torque Chad, it looked like the time the car got real loose was on throttle. We are a little tire limited. You wrote that the were qualifying on A-7s. How long will they last at that, I would think maybe 3 sessions and they would be no better than R-7. I auto x on A-7s but have not used them up yet. in 4 auto x. When you get to the heat of summer the R-7 may be fine for qualifying.

[C.Plavan]

EWG Upgrade:

I had a productive Sunday. I removed old Invidia Up Pipe and replaced it with a Grimmspeed EWG model. The Grimmspeed went in way easier than the Invida. I put the correct springs into the Tial 38mm MVS. I'm just wondering where I'm going to plumb the -4AN coolant to the Tial from??? Throttle body coolant hoses that I looped maybe?

The included dump tube with the up pipe will not work. It would dump super hot exhaust right onto the diffuser. It looks like I will need to visit a muffler shop to have them make/bend a dump tube that will not melt anything. I also ordered the 1/4" Cobb adapter kit for my EBCS with new 6mm silicon line- I guess the bigger 1/4" ports are beneficial for EWG's.

Oil Cooling upgrade:
I received my bigger Setrab oil cooler- it is twice the size as the old one with dual fans. I'm sure this will fix the high temps (240-250 degrees) with a little ducting and 3" hose. I bought a few NACA ducts with 3" hose provisions. I'm not sure I will use them yet, or just 3D print something for the side vents and run the 3" hose to dump out cool air onto the oil cooler (with enclosed ducts to the cooler)/ so fans can pull through.

Air Intake Upgrade:

I bought a SPT air intake along with some aluminum tube/couplers- I plan on moving the intake/filter down to the passenger side vent, low.

Some other things I noticed, I'm going to have to raise the rear ride height also (I raised the front at the track because of crazy tire rub on the outer fender). The rear tires were hitting the top of the splash guards. One side melted the bulb seal.

Stay tuned- I have another tune scheduled for April 6th. Then race 2 weeks after that.

[Scargo]

I like the direction you are going in with these upgrades. Highly concur.
"3D print something for the side vents and run the 3" hose to dump out cool air onto the oil cooler (with enclosed ducts to the cooler)/ so fans can pull through." YES! I've worried that I'll have trouble packaging my oil cooler right behind the opening and adequately directing the airflow.
Like many modded Subies, it would be good to have a sort of "cold air box" and where you're going is where I was going to put mine. Can't wait to see what you come up with.
I don't look forward to the wheel well liners. What is your bump travel and do you need all of it? Can you curve/bend/reshape it so it can go higher? What about raising the body? I'm intending to do that some in the front and rear. Right now my sail bottoms are 1/8" above the frame bottom. So, I've raised it at least 1/4". My goal was to try and live within the stock fender flares. I haven't even looked at the liners...

[C.Plavan]

I had a little time tonight to work on the new oil cooler and prototype some vents. The vents on the oil cooler are near perfect.
I then worked some quick prototypes to mount on the side vents. Pictured is version one, where I made some notes and some adjustments. I'm already printing version 3. It takes about 3 or 4 hours to finish printing one. I'm hoping to finish mounting the oil cooler tomorrow night. Then clean the car!!!! It is a mess.

http://i.imgur.com/bP9qcN1l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/M1r94pil.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gBJdUr5l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dJo0RHLl.jpg

[Scargo]

Looking good!
Will that plastic withstand the potential heat without deformation or do you see using it as a pattern? I used to take those and make silicone molds and cast thermoset parts. Investment cast aluminum parts from them?
Is that the bracketry on the sides of the cooler what came with the fans?

[STiPWRD]

You may want to round some of those sharp corners on the 3D printed part as it will greatly improve air flow. Also, it looks like your ducting hose would have to make a 90 degree bend to clear the rear tires, maybe it's worth 3D printing that into the scoop.

[D Clary]

How much are you raising the car? Do you have a sway bar? Just thinking If we need to go to high I may increase my spring rates.

[C.Plavan]

Looking good!
Will that plastic withstand the potential heat without deformation or do you see using it as a pattern? I used to take those and make silicone molds and cast thermoset parts. Investment cast aluminum parts from them?
Is that the bracketry on the sides of the cooler what came with the fans?

Thanks- I'm sure they would be good with the heat. There will be alot of airflow through the ducts at speed and with the fans (fans simulate 50 MPH speed alone)- You have to buy the brackets separately. I think they cost under $40. The oil cooler comes with the fans if you order the right one.


You may want to round some of those sharp corners on the 3D printed part as it will greatly improve air flow. Also, it looks like your ducting hose would have to make a 90 degree bend to clear the rear tires, maybe it's worth 3D printing that into the scoop.

I did add an angle on the hose attachment to clear the rear splash guards on version 3. I would love to change those sharp edges, but I'm limited with the software I'm using and user skill. I wish I could get Solidworks :) $$$$$. I'm just trying to prove this will work first, I may go back and try to fix things later There will be the fans pulling air through those ducts also (back side of oil cooler). I'm not too concerned since it did not have any ducting and a smaller oil cooler before.

[C.Plavan]

How much are you raising the car? Do you have a sway bar? Just thinking If we need to go to high I may increase my spring rates.

No need for a sway bar. I was thinking going up 10% on all springs. I'm probably going to have to raise the rear another 1/4" or more.

[STiPWRD]

I did add an angle on the hose attachment to clear the rear splash guards on version 3. I would love to change those sharp edges, but I'm limited with the software I'm using and user skill. I wish I could get Solidworks :) $$$$$. I'm just trying to prove this will work first, I may go back and try to fix things later There will be the fans pulling air through those ducts also (back side of oil cooler). I'm not too concerned since it did not have any ducting and a smaller oil cooler before.

If you send me your cad file, I can modify it for you and send it back

[longislandwrx]

The tb feed/return is probably a good place to hook up the gate, although the more I read, the more it seems like hardly anyone bothers to hook them up... even on serious builds.

After you tune you might want to log your WGDC and see how much time it spends dumping fire. Then decide if its worth hooking up.

[Mechie3]

www.onshape.com

Request an invite. From the original makers of solidworks. Free CAD for personal use that uses the same parasolid engine as solidworks (and lots of other CAD programs).

[D Clary]

What ride height did you start with? I kind of set mine up at 3.5" sounds like you could be getting close to 4.5".

[Zach34]

No need for a sway bar. I was thinking going up 10% on all springs. I'm probably going to have to raise the rear another 1/4" or more.

Do you think, geometry-wise, we might end up being better off using the S ride height just for clearance?

[C.Plavan]

What ride height did you start with? I kind of set mine up at 3.5" sounds like you could be getting close to 4.5".

I'm going to remeasure everything/Corner balance before the next race. I think the front was at 3.75 with a quick raise at the track.


Do you think, geometry-wise, we might end up being better off using the S ride height just for clearance?

I was wondering that also- But I'm not near the 4.5" mark.... Yet. I did notice the springs did settle quite a bit. The car was handling great last time out, just the drive train was giving me problems.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm going to remeasure everything/Corner balance before the next race. I think the front was at 3.75 with a quick raise at the track.

I was wondering that also- But I'm not near the 4.5" mark.... Yet. I did notice the springs did settle quite a bit. The car was handling great last time out, just the drive train was giving me problems.


The lift to drag ratio of the diffuser is a lot better at lower ride heights.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39667&d=1426656772

[C.Plavan]

The lift to drag ratio of the diffuser is a lot better at lower ride heights.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=39667&d=1426656772

I agree, but rubbing tires is not good at 130-140 MPH.

[Scargo]

That's great data. I had read that 10-12 degrees was ideal. Who the heck can run even 40mm height to maximize force when we might be at 82mm?
BTW, when I had a tiny rub, that I could not perceive, my club black-flagged me in a hurry.

[EODTech87]

What angle is the Factory Five defuser at when installed with a level ride height?

[C.Plavan]

What angle is the Factory Five defuser at when installed with a level ride height?

I never measured- but it seems to be around 10 degrees.

I'm almost done with the complete oil cooler upgrade/ducting. I found some other ducts that I think I can modify for the side vents- If not I will go back to the 3D printed ones. I'm just waiting for those to get here then it will be done.

http://i.imgur.com/LuQzLPWl.jpg?1

Anyone know if there is a aluminum piece that bridges the aluminum/front splitter area under the car to under the steering rack? Part number? or am I going to have to make something? It was on my todo list, but I got side tracked and forgot about it until I had to clean all the rubber and track junk out of the front. I want to block it off.
http://i.imgur.com/aI944c6l.jpg

I started playing and printing these NACA ducts. My printer has been on the fritz lately. I need to do some maintenance on it also.
http://i.imgur.com/9mSTjnOl.jpg

Also wanted to point this out. I have the adjustable rear toe links that were sent with some of the early 818S cars (Rubber Bushing). I planned to upgrade to metal Swag tubes, after seeing this, I bought all the parts to convert the 818R over. The rear rubber has a little too much "give". The tire/wheel was defecting enough to rub. This is with both spacers on the "inside" also to give more clearance (to upper bar). Once I get those rubber bushings out, I'm confident this will not happen anymore. It just means it will be even faster.
Look on the STI pink-
http://i.imgur.com/Ms5EHinl.jpg

The culprit:
http://i.imgur.com/P3W5PY1l.jpg

[Mechie3]

There's a thread in the body area iirc where someone has a piece to bridge that gap.

[Scargo]

Are you planning anything for closing the gap between the diffuser and the rear of the chassis pan?

[bstuke]

I have adjustable heim joint connections on all of those points, and the offset lower trailing arm to barely fit the tire on. It does not move a bit.

[C.Plavan]

Are you planning anything for closing the gap between the diffuser and the rear of the chassis pan?

I have already. I took it off to change the oil since I was removing the old oil cooler.

Thanks Mechie, I'll look over there. I also have an email over to Jim to see if I have a missing aluminum peice.

[bstuke]

You might want to just call Jay, pretty sure Jim is at VIR..

[nkw8181]

Are you planning anything for closing the gap between the diffuser and the rear of the chassis pan?

There is a piece of aluminum sheet that comes with the diffuser. If you didn't get it (like me) call ffr and they will send it out.

[C.Plavan]

Here is the rear panel installed I had to call for also.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11129-Plavan-s-818R-Build-Thread&p=179423&viewfull=1#post179423

[bstuke]

No scales yet. Maybe this weekend.

I was 1775lb at Dixie.

[C.Plavan]

I was 1775lb at Dixie.

That is really nice. Like I said before, the dry sump, wing mount with integrated bumper, a real intrusion panel, fuel cell, AWIC, complete fire system with an additional hand held fire extinguisher all add weight. Added safety is worth the weight. I need that weight for the ST2 race class. If I was just doing autocross, all that stuff would not be in.

I actually do not mind adding weight since I can just add more HP since it is detuned so much. At the last race, they weighed me coming off the track after the race. I was 4 pounds over my minimum DQ weight :).

I'm just happy I have a motor that is still running strong so far unlike the other 818R's road racing. Going 125- 130mph in sustained high G corners lets me know the dry sump is working. I just need to get the oil temp down a bit (Which could of caused some of the other 818 track cars problems also) which I think I have found the answer to.

[Santiago]

At the last race, they weighed me coming off the track after the race. I was 4 pounds over my minimum DQ weight :).


SWEET!

Just make sure to eat lunch before the race. =)

[Mitch Wright]

1775 Very nice, my goal of 2000lb with driver water, oil and fuel is obtainable.

[C.Plavan]

1775 Very nice, my goal of 2000lb with driver water, oil and fuel is obtainable.

I'm now 2235 w/driver and 4 gallons of gas...... I weigh 180 as a data point. Good luck! :)

[C.Plavan]

Air intake upgraded. If I'm not getting cool air now, I have other issues.

http://i.imgur.com/Yz2AFnul.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kcILcrOl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ih1Rs37l.jpg

[Hindsight]

Looks perfect!

[Scargo]

I think once you're rolling you will be fine. It will be a blast! :rolleyes: Some do partition off the filter/intake a little more from the engine compartment.
On the weight issue: I weight 165 and my pistons are 22 grams (each) lighter that stock. My rods are light. :oMy front uprights are lighter and my LCAs will be 3 pounds, each lighter. I've lost the door hinge mounts and lots of other extraneous metal and fiberglass. I'm going to try using an STi intercooler stuck out into the airstream. May be ugly... Dry sump might add weight. I'm planning on being under 2000 with me and 5 gallons.

[Evan78]

Also wanted to point this out. I have the adjustable rear toe links that were sent with some of the early 818S cars (Rubber Bushing). I planned to upgrade to metal Swag tubes, after seeing this, I bought all the parts to convert the 818R over. The rear rubber has a little too much "give". The tire/wheel was defecting enough to rub. This is with both spacers on the "inside" also to give more clearance (to upper bar). Once I get those rubber bushings out, I'm confident this will not happen anymore. It just means it will be even faster.Do you know how much static clearance you had at that location? I'm wondering how much the tire deflected.

[Scargo]

Oh, the terminology! I think lateral arms (then lateral links) are more standard terms than toe links. If toe, then you could call them camber links, too.
Please understand that I have worked with a (professional) fellow who is a stickler for suspension terminology. I (and he) cannot even get it straight half the time.

[C.Plavan]

Oh, the terminology! I think lateral arms (then lateral links) are more standard terms than toe links. If toe, then you could call them camber links, too.
Please understand that I have worked with a (professional) fellow who is a stickler for suspension terminology. I (and he) cannot even get it straight half the time.

Really? The rear most lateral link is used to adjust toe. Call it what you want. No need to have a discussion about it. Other than Subaru's they are also known as toe links, why? Because they adjust the toe.

[Scargo]

OK, fine. No discussion. Don't get your nickers in a twist.

[C.Plavan]

Just an FYI- Drilling the inner tab mounts for upgrading to 12" swag tubes in the rear is a BIG B. You have to enlarge the holes to 5/8" on the front mount tabs. PITA trying to get a drill in there. I think I'm going to have to die grind the rear hole on both sides (near motor mount) I have tried and angle drill, angle drill attachment with a step drill, filing, grinding- it sucks. nothing can get a straight shot. I'm waiting on some new die grinder bits to have another go at it.
However, drilling the rear hubs to 5/8" was easy.

http://i.imgur.com/lJYpVuXl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/n9EEsCSl.jpg

[Hindsight]

Why do the holes need to be enlarged for longer swag tubes?

[C.Plavan]

Why do the holes need to be enlarged for longer swag tubes?

The rear tabs are 5/8" holes up top "R height", the front tabs are M10 or M12- I can't remember but much smaller than 5/8". I'm not sure if the later chassis are like mine.

You basically need to change everything to 5/8" (hub also) so you can use the standard swag tubes and rod ends. They are a lot cheaper than metric. You can keep limited spares that fit a bunch of places instead of carrying metric and imperial.

It explains what you need in the 818R supplemental, just not how hard it is to drill some holes :)

[Wayne Presley]

Later R chassis have 5/8" holes on the upper hole and 12mm on the lower hole.

[C.Plavan]

Later R chassis have 5/8" holes on the upper hole and 12mm on the lower hole.

Well that does not help me :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Well that does not help me :)
Chad
It the original hole was 1/2", could you just add a 1/2 to 5/8 sleeve.
If 12mm these 12mm-16mm sleeve would be very close. http://www.mcmaster.com/#6658k16/=whh9bl
The are about 0.004" to big. Might have to sand them down a smidge.
Bob

[Wayne Presley]

Or put a rod end that threaded 5/8-16 and has a 1/2 hole in the rod end :cool:

[C.Plavan]

Or put a rod end that threaded 5/8-16 and has a 1/2 hole in the rod end :cool:

That would of been too easy. I like doing things the hard way. I'll just die grind out the front hole.

I was dumb and just tried the rear most tabs first- of course they were 5/8" already. I figured the front ones would be too. My fault.

[Scargo]

I lucked out and got the 5/8" holes... Could you create a stubby 5/8" bit and perhaps grind the flats that would get it into a six-point socket? Or weld it to a socket. I have a 3/8" air ratchet that can get into tight spaces.

[Mitch Wright]

I shortened a 5/8 bit to get the job done, not a problem.

[C.Plavan]

I shortened a 5/8 bit to get the job done, not a problem.

I have tried that, but my angle drills will not fit. What drill are you using?

Great ideas everyone. I'm hoping to get everything done today without it looking like a Hack did it......fingers crossed

[tebriel]

Maybe a pneumatic drill would fit?

[Mitch Wright]

I used my M18 Milwaukee Cordless Drill

[Scargo]

I just confirmed that I can get in-between the ears with my 3/8 air ratchet, a 7/16" six point socket and a shortened bit with hex flats on the shank. I didn't actually mod the bit but I could see that it was doable.
If you used a 5" or 6" long 3/8" extension and a universal then you could drive the bit with a hex to 3/8 adapter and use almost anything to power it with. You could then leave the bit and/or shank longer, too.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks guys- I got it with a Die Grinder and surgical precision :)

http://i.imgur.com/vAieU2vl.jpg

I bolted everything back on. I just need to lower it and torque everything down to specs. Then align it again.

Next week, it has to go to the muffler shop to have them weld/bend the dump tube to the exhaust.

[C.Plavan]

I had to rush to get a few things done before my tuner appt. tomorrow (1 month wait list!). The external wastegate dump tube is all fab'd up. It turned out really good. Once I get back from the tuner, I'm also going to wrap the exhaust and dump tube to minimize more heat.

I made some -4 AN SS lines and plumbed the water cooling fittings on the Tial wastegate. I used the throttle body coolant lines I looped together earlier. I figured its a race car, might as well do it now since everything is apart.

So after the tuning tomorrow, I hope I don't have anymore excuses. :)
http://i.imgur.com/oL4s4osl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/q6j2uwZl.jpg





Punchlist before the race in 2 weeks:

1. Fab up sheet metal to block up radiator/HE escape routes
2. Fab and install a sheet metal panel to bridge open area between front splitter and steering rack area. (So its all flat)
3. Make a mount to raise the Traqdash to the dash. It will be more eye level and easier to see while racing.
3. Corner balance and align again
4. Bleed brakes

[Santiago]

Punchlist before the race in 2 weeks:

2. Fab and install a sheet metal panel to bridge open area between front splitter and steering rack area. (So its all flat)



Not sure what you specifically had in mind by "all flat," but if you mean "all level" you might want to reconsider. Smoothing out flow is good - so "all flat" in that way is headed in the right direction. However, if the splitter is already angled up a tick in the back (or even just lower than the area that needs to be covered), you probably want to make sure you preserve the expansion area. A raised area at the back of the splitter and then down to the floor is a common technique. Something to keep in mind when making the bridge panel.

Congrats on getting the fab work done and being ready for the tuner.

Best,
-j

[Hindsight]

Looking forward to seeing the radiator blockoffs you come up with. I want to do the same when I get that far.

[Mechie3]

Early kits didn't get the piece to connect the sub frame undertray with the battery under tray so there's a break in the underbody. That's what he's doing.

[Scargo]

Santiago, If only for my enlightenment could you explain (or is there a diagram of) what you meant by "A raised area at the back of the splitter and then down to the floor is a common technique." I was following your comment till I got to that. I guess this has something to do with the splitter and the diffuser being "below", by their material thickness, the level of the chassis/pan?

[Santiago]

I get that he's bridging the gap in the underbody between the radiator subframe and the battery tray. However, simply going horizontal or level with the front splitter is not the most efficient way to do it. Ideally, you want a raised area behind the splitter. So in an exaggerated form, something like this (in side view):

............raised area _______
splitter __________/........... \________battery tray

(disregard the dotted lines, the formatting wasn't letting me make the image I wanted.

As it looks now, the splitter is already not level with the ground. They seemed to build into the center of it an entry ramp so that the front is higher than the rear (or higher than the lowest part of the splitter floor in side view). That's good and as it should be. However, if you want to amplify its effects, give its rear exit somewhere to diffuse (i.e. increase volume) before it continues on its way under the car and out the wheel wells. That's actually what they're trying to accomplish (in part) with the raised elements towards the ends - although the exit strategy is compromised by body work, it's still a good idea. So what I was recommending is that if you have the room for expansion, use it. Don't just go from bottom of splitter to bottom of battery tray.

FWIW, if you were to go straight across level with the two trays, tragedy would not ensue. The thing is still going to work and it's still going to be better than the open and rough edges of the exposed sub-frames. This is just a thought on a more optimal solution.

Best,
-j

[Harley818]

Chad,
Good to see it all coming together again, and great idea for the tie-downs.

I'm trying to find out the length of the stock trailing link.
I bought the adjustable ones and I want to start with the stock length when I set up the body position.
Any chance you could measure the length from center to center?
Good luck in the upcoming race.

[xxguitarist]

Where are you routing the port off the top of the EWG? Just somewhere else to keep it clean inside?

[C.Plavan]

Chad,
Good to see it all coming together again, and great idea for the tie-downs.

I'm trying to find out the length of the stock trailing link.
I bought the adjustable ones and I want to start with the stock length when I set up the body position.
Any chance you could measure the length from center to center?
Good luck in the upcoming race.

I'll get you a measurement tomorrow of the stock WRX links. Thanks.



Where are you routing the port off the top of the EWG? Just somewhere else to keep it clean inside?

It goes to my Cobb EBCS. The Tuner wanted them both hooked up for what we are doing.


TADA-

I can basically drive in any gear above 4.5K RPM on the whole track and be at maximum HP for my car in ST2 class. I just have to keep it between 4.5K RPM to 7.5K RPM. The HP is purposely flat, this time without any reduction in the throttle map. The external wastegate fixed the overboosting problem. As an added bonus, I gained ~50 ft/pds of torque.

Now I'm really getting excited.
http://i.imgur.com/MGz87Tsl.jpg

[Canadian818]

Wow, that is going to be a dream to drive!

[Tamra]

Nice!

[Scargo]

Outstanding! Very impressive. Looks like torque will come on smoothly. Leads me to believe that I need to go with external wastegates too. That takes me up to a BW EFR 7064 if I want to stick with that line of turbos and go EWG and twin-scroll.
What does it mean when Engine Delta Pressure (dP) is in negative numbers? According to Matchbot (http://www.turbos.borgwarner.com//aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.34&CID=142.7868&altitude=250&baro=14.604&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=70s75&pt1_rpm=5000&pt1_ve=98&pt1_boost=13.7&pt1_ie=94&pt1_filres=0&pt1_ipd=0.1&pt1_mbp=0&pt1_ce=74&pt1_te=71&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=1.77&pt1_pw=38.5&pt1_bsfc=0.47&pt1_afr=11&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=6000&pt2_ve=100&pt2_boost=7.4&pt2_ie=93&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=0.05&pt2_ce=72&pt2_te=71&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.54&pt2_pw=49.2&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=7000&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=6.4&pt3_ie=92&pt3_filres=0.12&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=0.1&pt3_ce=67&pt3_te=70&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1.57&pt3_pw=53.28&pt3_bsfc=0.5&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=8000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=4.7&pt4_ie=90&pt4_filres=0.15&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=65&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=1.5&pt4_pw=58.13&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11.5&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=100&pt5_boost=3.5&pt5_ie=90&pt5_filres=0.18&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=0.7&pt5_ce=64&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=1.44&pt5_pw=61.12&pt5_bsfc=0.5&pt5_afr=11.5&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9000&pt6_ve=100&pt6_boost=2.4&pt6_ie=89&pt6_filres=0.2&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=0.8&pt6_ce=63&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.38&pt6_pw=65.93&pt6_bsfc=0.5&pt6_afr=11.5&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&), when I get above 7K it starts to go negative.

[Hindsight]

Looking fantastic! I don't recall reading anything about you getting a smaller turbo so I'm assuming this is all just from a new tune with the EWG. If you you run this setup out on the track and feel like you are at a power disadvantage (vs Corvettes) in the lower RPM bands, a smaller turbo would probably get you to peak torque about 1,000 RPMs earlier (down around 3800 or so) while still giving you the same top end you have now. However, on a road race course, I don't know if that's going to be a factor since you may be able to keep the RPMs above 4500 the whole time.

Looking forward to the next race results!

[C.Plavan]

Looking fantastic! I don't recall reading anything about you getting a smaller turbo so I'm assuming this is all just from a new tune with the EWG. If you you run this setup out on the track and feel like you are at a power disadvantage (vs Corvettes) in the lower RPM bands, a smaller turbo would probably get you to peak torque about 1,000 RPMs earlier (down around 3800 or so) while still giving you the same top end you have now. However, on a road race course, I don't know if that's going to be a factor since you may be able to keep the RPMs above 4500 the whole time.

Looking forward to the next race results!

I looked into that with my gear charts after the first dyno. There was no need to go with a smaller turbo because on a road course you would never get below 4.5K RPM. I have a 4.11 final drive also. I could shift well below 7000 RPM and still be above 4500 in the next gear, in every gear.

At the first race, the boost creep was so bad, I could only shift at around 6000 RPM! The car still broke the 1:30 barrier at Willow Springs. That says something. Like I said, I am getting really excited. I just hope there are not anymore gremlins.

[Hindsight]

Oh wow, yeah then you are totally set and that's good news too since you don't have to drop another $1500 on a different turbo. With this setup, being able to shift at redline, and not having to constantly watch your boost gauge.... I really can't wait to see what lap times you turn in the next race. When's that going to be?

[C.Plavan]

Oh wow, yeah then you are totally set and that's good news too since you don't have to drop another $1500 on a different turbo. With this setup, being able to shift at redline, and not having to constantly watch your boost gauge.... I really can't wait to see what lap times you turn in the next race. When's that going to be?

Two weeks! I can't wait. I'll probably test on that Friday before the race.

[bbjones121]

Looks great Chad! Can't wait to see how it performs.

[Wayne Presley]

I'll get you a measurement tomorrow of the stock WRX links. Thanks.




It goes to my Cobb EBCS. The Tuner wanted them both hooked up for what we are doing.


TADA-

I can basically drive in any gear above 4.5K RPM on the whole track and be at maximum HP for my car in ST2 class. I just have to keep it between 4.5K RPM to 7.5K RPM. The HP is purposely flat, this time without any reduction in the throttle map. The external wastegate fixed the overboosting problem. As an added bonus, I gained ~50 ft/pds of torque.

Now I'm really getting excited.
http://i.imgur.com/MGz87Tsl.jpg

That was exactly the power I had talked about in the ST classes in NASA. All of the allowed power all the time. Good job Chad

[C.Plavan]

That was exactly the power I had talked about in the ST classes in NASA. All of the allowed power all the time. Good job Chad

Thanks Wayne, you are the one that got me thinking. Never having a turbo race car before, I never knew you could do that with tuning. I hope to surprise those Corvette's.

[Scargo]

You really should put it to the Vettes and Porsches. With my 7.75/8 to 1 ratio STi, I give them fits in HPDE. In the wet it's no contest.

[Frank818]

Now THAT'S a proper torque curve! :)

[metalmaker12]

Nice ,

Ps: for his power range and being just under the efficiency range of his turbo Ewg will fix the overboost issue. But if he was trying to make 350-380whp and staying in the turbos efficiency range the iwg would work well. I have pretty much the same turbo setup minus I think he's not twinscroll and my boost range is 18-25 to make the turbo play nice. That puts me well over 300whp. In fact 300whp+ at 15psi, 18 will make like 360whp or more once we dial it in. I just want 350-360 max. I am going to road tune it before I do a final dyno because I want to feel the power and how the car handles it and if I like it or not. I like road tuning much more when it come to perfecting the cars behavior.

Put it this way guys, my buddy have a 658whp notch back stang and with 17psi on my old setup I pulled on him amazinglyfrom 40-120. Only bikes have pulled on him. What I am getting at is this car with like 300-400 is a seriously quick car.

[longislandwrx]

As an added bonus, I gained ~50 ft/pds of torque.
http://i.imgur.com/MGz87Tsl.jpg

oh is that all :cool:

[C.Plavan]

Race weekend!!!! Getting ready to test the fixes in practice in about an hour. Fingers crossed!!!!

[bbjones121]

Have fun!! Tear it up!

[Mitch Wright]

Good luck.

[C.Plavan]

More gremlins, gremlins, gremlins. All heat related. Lost a small hose, another hose had a cut. Awic temps at 140-143. It's high 80's at the track. I moved my air intake to a different spot. Seemed to help a little, but that's when a hose popped. I was too busy watching gauges to go really go after it. I'm so paranoid. But got a 1:57 on crap tires.

The good news- no boost creep at all!!!!

[Tamra]

Sorry to hear about the gremlins.

The 140 was post intercooler? What was pre-intercooler? Do you have a speed density tune? Also, which AWIC are you using?

[C.Plavan]

Sorry to hear about the gremlins.

The 140 was post intercooler? What was pre-intercooler? Do you have a speed density tune? Also, which AWIC are you using?

140 post. Air Filter temp/maf was all over. Better once I moved it to the hump area instead of down low on the side vent.
No speed density tune. I'm using Wayne's kit. I'm not sure what is going on. I have bled it many times, blocked of air escape routes. I'm thinking of removing the radiator fans, and fan housing. I'm thinking that may could be blocking airflow. I'm at a loss right now.

[Mechie3]

If you look up in the nose with the hood in place you can see a lot of air can escape over the top of the radiator if you haven't already blocked it off.

[Hindsight]

Chad, maybe post some pics of the duct/blockoff work you've done? I read posts where you talked about doing it (and using foam to seal the AWIC heat exchanger to the rad) but don't think I saw pics.

[D Clary]

How is your coolant and oil temp. Can your tune compensate for the IAT. I think Tamara said that they were 80+ in 65 degree weather, so at 80 they would be close to 100 figuring that they were 15 degree above ambient. and that was autoX. My point being that without more coolant the IAT you are seeing may be what you have to deal with. I would also ask your tuner about speed density. every time you change the inlet around the MAF you can change the MAF interpitation of the airflow.

[Mitch Wright]

Is the engine running hot? I would think if it is a air flow issue the engine water temp would also be high.

[C.Plavan]

Seemed to fix the high IAT temps- I'm running with the air filter above passenger harness bar. I cant run the rear hatch with it there. I'll modify it permanently at home.

Now the thing is just overheating after about three laps. I refill and burp they system. I see it go eventually go past 225 and coast, bring it into the pits then it geysers out my rear overflow tank. I have filled and burped it 3 times with the speciality funnel etc..... I'm thinking I'm going to take the fans and fan shroud off. Frustrating. Oil temps got to 240-250- frustrated is an understatement.

1:56 driving like a sissy checking gauges the whole time (3 laps)

[metalmaker12]

Speed density will help with adjusting the map, but heat is heat and your power will be limited. It seems that awic is not working very well

[Hindsight]

When you say it overheated, it sounds like you are talking engine coolant. So it sounds like since both engine coolant and awic temps are high, it's an airflow issue. Its a race car so maybe buy or make a couple large naca ducts for the hood to vent and do whatever else you can to seal the front air area to the radiator and vent out behind.

[Wayne Presley]

You are trapping air in the motor, there is no way to get 240 oil temps in 3 laps with a full cooling system

[C.Plavan]

Had a team of race mechanics come over and help me bleed the system. But nothing different than what we have been doing. Also had the endurance FFR GTM team guys come over and give some tips. We did find out the second fan has not been kicking on. Figures I forgot my computer to access and turn it on. The tuner must of forgot. We are hardwiring it right now.
I'm hoping that will help, but I'm not that confident. Maybe my tune is too much for the cooling system. I don't know.

Another Subie racer came by and looked for signs of a blown head gasket while we were burping it again. Nothing out of the ordinary he says.

[D Clary]

I wonder how the FFR cars do. I have not seen video or article since the last one they blew up. You would think that they have some information to share so that we all don't have to play trial and error

[bbjones121]

Heat, heat heat is the 818's biggest issue. I am very sorry to hear about the high temps, hopefully you can get it figured out.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Chad
Sent you a PM.
Bob

[C.Plavan]

Good news- I found out what all the 818R guys are going to have to do for the motor cooling. I'll take pictures. Last two sessions it did not get over 208. It was a combination of getting the second fan working, and getting more airflow. You can't tape off the bottom open area above the splitter. FFR wants you to tape it up for more front downforce-. I left it partially open to feed air and bent up the three precut vents aiming at HE and radiator. This is the aluminum radiator floor.

Now the the problem is the oil temp. Creeps up to 260 after 7 laps. I have to come in, park and cool it off. It's a blast during those 5 laps where the oil temps are down. I dropped another 2 seconds to 1:54 on junk tires (no need to waste the good ones)

I can't fix the oil cooler ducting here. I'm going to need to fab up aluminum side scoops to grab more air, and box off the cooler from the motor totally. Keep in mind I am running hatch less right now also.

Two of three problems are fixed

[metros]

Do you still have the oil cooler in the rear, mounted off the cross brace?

I'm starting to wish I had gotten the cooler with built in fans like you have.

[C.Plavan]

Do you still have the oil cooler in the rear, mounted off the cross brace?

I'm starting to wish I had gotten the cooler with built in fans like you have.

Yes- with 3" duct tubes from both side vents feeding cool air.

[Scargo]

Very interesting! I was thinking the slit in the front might be relevant for the radiator.
Thanks for all the feedback, Mr. Guinea Pig. Best of luck.

[bbjones121]

Glad to hear you got some of the gremlins under control.
I feel mechies front hood louvers and vraptors side scoop louvers will be extremely beneficial.

[C.Plavan]

We found out the side vents are worthless for air flow with the door vent add on. The air flow is so fast coming out, it is bypassing the side vents down stream. We need BIG side scoops to make any use of the side vents. I'm going to box in the oil cooler in its current location. I'll need fab up some big aluminum side scoops.