Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[C.Plavan]

Hey Chad. Been out of the loop for a while and catching up on the threads. Insane you purchased a NP01, I have been eyeing those since you introduced that beast to me this past summer. I read one of the NP01's posted a best lap of 1:55 and the other a 1:51 at 25hrs of Thunderhill. Pretty impressive times running 185hp.

I'm curious what made the NP01 more appealing to you than the SLC?

Hey Brandon!

There are many reasons I chose the NP01 over the SLC-
1. Price
2. Cost to race/consumables/tires/parts
3. Resale- National Spec series creates a better demand/ easier to sell without losing as much money (SLC would cost over $100k in race trim, and you will not get half of that if you sell it- It's a kit car)
4. Spec racing series for the NP01
5. Real Sequential 6 speed racing transmission in the NP01
6. SLC is more of a unfinished kit like the 818
7. The NP01 is made by a real racecar manufacturer (not Replicas)
8. The look/design/form/function of the NP01- The SLC looks too kit car to me.

That's about it- Plus, Elan has been a joy to work with. They may even get me my car a month earlier than expected (completely built) now in February, instead of March. Mid March will be the first Spec race at Willow Springs in the Pacific NP01 Spec series. You should come on out.

[C.Plavan]

Test day is set for January 8th. Hopefully no rain.

[wleehendrick]

Test day is set for January 8th. Hopefully no rain.

Did someone say rain? El Nino has arrived ;)

https://media.giphy.com/media/McZdU5M5jpkmk/giphy.gif

[Frank818]

8th, that's tomorrow!! :) 54F no rain!

[bbjones121]

Yes!! Finally the day has come...

[C.Plavan]

It's still raining today. I'm hoping to load her up after work. I'm only going for a half day tomorrow if the weather is good. I'm going to fill the car up and run it till its out of gas, weather permitting.

[Pearldrummer7]

It's still raining today. I'm hoping to load her up after work. I'm only going for a half day tomorrow if the weather is good. I'm going to fill the car up and run it till its out of gas, weather permitting.

You get half a day out of a tank of gas? I feel like I'm lucky if I don't need to fill between sessions. I think I have a smaller tank thank you, though.


Good luck tomorrow Chad! We're all anxiously waiting results :)

[wleehendrick]

It's still raining today. I'm hoping to load her up after work. I'm only going for a half day tomorrow if the weather is good. I'm going to fill the car up and run it till its out of gas, weather permitting.

Good luck! If you've had as much rain/flooding this week as we have down here, hope the track is in decent shape.

[C.Plavan]

You get half a day out of a tank of gas? I feel like I'm lucky if I don't need to fill between sessions. I think I have a smaller tank thank you, though.


Good luck tomorrow Chad! We're all anxiously waiting results :)

I just meant for a full session. I can get over an hour I'm guessing.

Hopefully that rainbow means something good!

http://i.imgur.com/azuL74il.jpg

Wleehendrick- I'm sure the track is fine, but I'm in no way going to go off the pavement. No record lap times tomorrow for sure, but that is not the real point. Fingerscrossed.

[Frank818]

Cold, possible fog at the moment, but looks like rain chances are at 0%.

We really want this to work!

[bbjones121]

Well we haven't heard anything yet... So I am taking that as good news.

[RetroRacing]

waiting..............waiting............please be good news!

[07FIREBLADE]

Seriously biting my nails right now as I'm waiting at the dmv waiting to here this car finally got sorted out, and ripped on everything at the track even though Chad wasn't pushing it.

[bbjones121]

This wait had got to be good news. Typically something happens right away.

[bbjones121]

Where is he going to race?

[Pearldrummer7]

I think he said buttonwillow.

I'm hoping no news means he's trying to sign up for the afternoon session, too!

[C.Plavan]

I'm still at the track. One problem now.......... Oil does not get hot enough!!!!!!! I had to tape off one front duct. I can't get it to 180 after 5 laps. Going out again here in a second. Fastest thing out here again.
Im hesitant to say this...... But after the first hour, I believe it's fixed!!!!!

[bbjones121]

Yes!!!!! That is awesome to hear!

[Hindsight]

Oh wow.... that's outstanding!!!!!

[wallace18]

Congrats. It was a long hard journey to get there. I admire your sticking to the fix.

[Mechie3]

Sweet.

[C.Plavan]

Yep- it's all fixed! I needed to block off both front oil cooler ducts- it was still not getting over 160.

Now I'm getting ready to pack up. Day started off really crappy I thought. There was a water leak under the side pod, so I took off the whole drivers side body work (10min). it was just a loose hose clamp on the alumninum coolant tube. Easy peasy fix.

Coolant never got over 185, or AWIC over 88 degrees on the track. Fun day. Long time coming.

[Kurk818]

Congrats. You deserve this!

[Aero STI]

It's awesome this worked out for you! What was the ambient temperature while you were running? The AWIC being in check is great news as well. What happens when your old 818R is faster than your new NP01?

[129st]

Congrats. You really kept at it to get a running race car.

Can you give us an explanation of what you think was the root cause of the oil overheat issue?

[Hindsight]

Wow, after all this time. Big congrats. I too am curious to see if you think it was a bad water pump or the large oil pump that was causing the issue. I don't recall what else you changed recently other than those two things. Are you confident that things will still be good under higher ambient temps?

Maybe consider adding a thermostat for the oil cooling system?

[AZPete]

Congrats, Chad! Perseverance paid off. Now there are a lot of guys waiting to know the fix.

[C.Plavan]

Thanks Everyone. Since I took the "Shotgun Approach" It's hard to say what fixed it. New 10cm oil pump, new water pump, new pulley, new timing belt kit and bearings, not running with the bottom engine cover, open venting of the motor, VR1 20/50 race oil, ambient temps????? Who knows? When I raced at Willow Springs last year in the same ambeint temps, my oil still got to 250/260.... So something is working. All I know is that I got 3 long sessions, and was getting tired from driving it so much. The tow home with a working car is alot more fun. I really think I may have too many oil coolers now. Oil temp was too low.

I want to think it was the 10cm oil pump. I think the 11cm oil pump was bypassing so much oil because of its higher flow volume. The oil was bypassing all the time with the 11cm, just spinning in the block heating up. I also read the 11cm is for journal bearing turbos- I have a ball bearing- that maybe part of it with the oil restrictor for the ball bearing turbo you put on????)

I also do not think you should not have a closed vacuum block with the Element Dry Sump. The vacuum is working against the scavenge, I know Gator has his working though, but both ARE and Element told me to vent it like I have.

I ran without the flat bottom aluminum piece under the engine. That could of helped cool everything also. I did not notice any handling issues running without it. I may suggest the new owner throw it on and try it.

The new owner is picking the car up on the 30th. Sorry to the guys who just sent me PM's inquiring about buying it :)

It's a fast car. More fun when it is running right. Faster than my incoming NP01- Probably, but the NP01 is a different beast, enclosed, and a Spec car. I cant wait to get it.

[bbjones121]

Congratulations Chad. It will be sad to see you go. You have been an inspiration for us all. Best of luck with the NP01

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great job Chad getting through all the challenging obstacles.
Bob

[Sgt.Gator]

Congratulations!!!

Besides the oil temp issue, did you also solve the power drop off? Were you able to keep up your lap times/speeds the entire session?
I'm going to miss working thru this with you when you're gone.

I'll be looking for you at the THill25 next year.

[Flamshackle]

Waaahoooo! Well done Chad :-)

What a great effort and impressive perseverance. Your build thread will serve others I am sure.

[mikeb75]

Congrats. Very happy to read your success. I hope you have a feeling of satisfaction after all your work & frustration, you've definitely earned it.

[Scargo]

Now, put the old water pump back in and see what happens...

[Mulry]

Congrats! That's great news.

[Frank818]

AWESOME!! We knew you'd fix it at some point!! It's sad you only got one real drive with it but at least you could feel how it likes! You certainly learned a lot of things with this car!

Not surprised it was running cold at 40F... I believe the car was running pretty much as it should. Would have been nice to see the difference with the engine belly pan though. Hopefully the new owner could comment on that one day.

Might want to revisit your signature too. :)

[Pearldrummer7]

Chad, this is great to hear. I'm really glad you got to be the fastest thing out there and go home with a working car at least once before you sold it.

Can't wait to see what the next owner brings to this fantastic car.

[bbjones121]

Any video?

[C.Plavan]

Congratulations!!!

Besides the oil temp issue, did you also solve the power drop off? Were you able to keep up your lap times/speeds the entire session?
I'm going to miss working thru this with you when you're gone.

I'll be looking for you at the THill25 next year.

I did not notice any power drop off like before. I could run the thing forever. With the outside temps in the low 50's, I could feel the extra power :)

[C.Plavan]

Any video?

I used my new gopro Hero4 Session- Great size, but the video/microphone is no where near as good as my Normal Hero3 Gopro. I'm sticking with the Gopro3 from now on.

I may load up some funny clips of street cars going off in the mud. I do not have time at the moment, I'm packing for a work trip.

[apexanimal]

i'm inclined to think that it was the 11cm oil pump... i've read too many posts about the issues with running them on engines that aren't setup for them from factory...

at any rate - congratulations!

[metalmaker12]

I think the pump was not working due to improper assembly of timing belt assembly which he documented. Plenty of people use the 11mm over the 10 with no heat issues on the same setup

Congrats

[Scargo]

i'm inclined to think that it was the 11cm oil pump... i've read too many posts about the issues with running them on engines that aren't setup for them from factory...
I'd like to see something documenting this. I've heard just the opposite for a built motor.
It's an 11mm pump, not 11cm.
There seems to be a feeling among some that a 12mm pump is too much, though it might be appropriate for some applications where clearances, oil viscosity and many other items are set up for it.
Also, a DAVCS motor that diverts some oil to the second set of cam actuators, over an AVCS motor (or a non-AVCS motor) could use some additional flow, or a motor with external plumbing, reservoir, filter, thermostat, etc. would have its flow impeded and might could use the extra pressure to achieve the same flow.
This is from Jeff Sponaugle (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?10381-sponaugle) of PDXTuning.com (http://pdxtuning.com/), who is on here and building an 818 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14139-Sponaugle-s-H6-EZ30R-818S). This is from 2007. Perhaps Jeff can comment on this, especially since we are 8+ years down the road?
49546
Note that there is no oil viscosity or temperature referenced for this chart.
Also note that the data stops at 6000 RPM. What happens when you turn 7, 8 or even 9K? It might be extrapolated to some degree of accuracy.
Another thing is that many custom engine builders of note modify the passages and galleys in the case as well as porting the oil pump and changing the relief pressure shims and not going exactly by the book when it comes to bearing clearances. Often the mains are not identically clearanced.

[Sgt.Gator]

I'm betting on the underdrive pulley slowing down the DS pump.
Here's a great pic of the Cosworth system stripped down to the bare essentials at SEMA 2014. Note how small the drive mandrel is in relation to the crank pulley behind it, and how large the DS pump pulley is. Now consider that the Element Tuning DS pump is being driven by the stock crank pulley, and even with the underdrive pulley Chad and I both installed, it's no where near the reduction that Cosworth mandrel is giving. But we both have cured the problem with the moderately underdriven pulley. Makes me want to fabricate an even smaller crank pulley or a larger DS drive pulley.

http://speed.academy/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SEMA-show-2014-parts-101.jpg

[Scargo]

That's an interesting theory. Did you just change that one thing (drive pulley downsized) and that resulted in the lower oil temps?
In theory, you have been over-scavenging the engine? Is this where aeration is suspected to be the culprit in overheating or something else?
Was vacuum on the case ever measured when closed? I've read that three or four scavenging stages may be needed to pull close to 10 inches*. Again, wouldn't this depend on whose pumps and how fast are they are driven?
What scavenging pumps are in the Cosworth two-stage DS scavenging system Vs Element Tuning's two-stage which uses Aviad scavenging pumps? Are we comparing apples to apples volume-wise and design-wise? Does ET leave you to run whatever oil pump you want?
From Cosworth:


20009093
Subaru 2008+ STI (EJ25) Blueprinted Oil Pump with high pressure mod .& install kit (11mm Rotor)




20001185
Subaru (EJ20/EJ25) High Volume/Pressure Blueprinted Oil Pump & install kit (12mm Rotor)



You don't get an oil pump with the Cosworth or ET system either, so Cosworth offers those two... (I don't see anyone suggesting a 10mm pump).
Anyone know what their systems are capable of or are actually delivering Vs the chart data in my post above on the Subaru pumps? *Aviad looks to offer pumps that do from .6" to 2" Hg. Again at what speed and what volume?

I wish I had more answers instead of questions. There are variables, but one would think this is not rocket science.

[Mitch Wright]

Sgt, I think you nailed it and would agree that slowing down the pump has most likely had the biggest effect.

Chad glad you finally were able to get to enjoy the car, good luck with the new ride.

[Sgt.Gator]

Scargo all your questions are answered in the "Oil issues: Dry Sump, Accusump for road racing?" thread in the R forum. And I suggest that we move further posts regarding this to that thread.
But for brevity:
Like Chad, for the most part I changed more than one thing at a time. It's all detailed over in the other thread.
I don't know if "overscavenging" is the correct term. Maybe spinning the the DS pump too fast causes it to suck up too much air when there's not enough oil in the pan; maybe spinning it too fast causes the DS pump to cavitate. (John at Aviad pumps says you can spin them at 15,000 rpm before cavitation happens though.)
Yes I've measured vacuum in my sealed-closed system. Yes I pull plenty of vacuum. It's all documented in the R forum thread. The people who are writing that you need 4 scavenge pumps to pull vacuum either have never done it and are speculating, or they have done it on loosely built high HP blocks with very high turbo boost/blowby and are correct, they couldn't get enough seal to create a vacuum. But since Cosworth builds very high HP loose built long block racing engines and only use a two stage scavenge that creates enough vacuum that they include a relief regulator, I think it's more likely those writers never tried it!
I have no data comparing the pump specs between Aviad and Cosworth. If you can find that info it would good to know.
The Cosworth oil pumps in your post are intended for high HP all forged loose tolerance race built Dual AVCS engines, like their $15,000 longblocks. In my case I run a stock OEM shortblock with much tighter tolerances, single AVCS heads, so I use the oem 10mm pump.

[RetroRacing]

We have the 12mm installed in ours with the KB oil pan and pick up, will let you all know what happens

[longislandwrx]

Chad, thank you for being a pioneer, glad the hard road you traveled led to success.
You undoubtedly saved me a small fortune at great personal expense to yourself.
Let's get a beer next time you are in NY to celebrate, the first dozen are on me.

can't wait to see the video.

[C.Plavan]

Got word that my NP01 chassis came out of powdercoat on Weds....... :) :) :)

[129st]

Got word that my NP01 chassis came out of powdercoat on Weds....... :) :) :)

Chad,
Will you have an NP01 build/set-up thread/racing thread on a forum (Elan maybe?) somewhere?

Please post a link so we can continue to follow your racing development exploits.

[Pearldrummer7]

Or on the off-topic here so we all can follow it. I'd love to see that progress

[bbjones121]

I agree it would be cool to follow a thread, but this is a FFR site...

[C.Plavan]

Chad,
Will you have an NP01 build/set-up thread/racing thread on a forum (Elan maybe?) somewhere?

Please post a link so we can continue to follow your racing development exploits.

I may start up a FB racing page, or another site. I'll post it here when/if i do. I'll have videos on youtube, so you can just subscribe to my channel for that. There is a private NP01 owners forum, but that does not help people wanting to see progress.

I'm having them build it in the interest of time (and it is relatively cheap compared to my time). There are still a few things I will be doing/changing, but within the rules of course. The first Pacific NP01 Series race is the middle of March at Willow Springs. I will fly out to Elan within the next month for the tour and to see/turn a wrench on my car. They will be also pouring my seat. I'm in the process of designing the wrap for it with the help of some installers near Elan.

Not my wrap- But this one looks pretty cool. I'm going with Grey, White, and my normal Blue.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_KkOBSR1Mc/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/_pQ_hfR1GE/)
https://www.instagram.com/p/_KkOBSR1Mc/

[Santiago]

Just caught up with your thread - CONGRATULATIONS CHAD! ...on the sale...but mostly on resolving the oil temp trouble!! GREAT NEWS!

Good luck with the NP01 - should be a blast and another adventure (hopefully of a different sort).

Best,
-j

[flynntuna]

I agree it would be cool to follow a thread, but this is a FFR site...

There have been build threads other than FFR builds in the "off topic section".
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13160-Ultima-Kit-Car-build

[C.Plavan]

Just caught up with your thread - CONGRATULATIONS CHAD! ...on the sale...but mostly on resolving the oil temp trouble!! GREAT NEWS!

Good luck with the NP01 - should be a blast and another adventure (hopefully of a different sort).

Best,
-j

Thanks- It was quite an adventure and wallet dieting project.

Words of advice- If you are looking at building a competitive 818R for racing only. Plan on spending north of $35k just in parts (not including labor). I was sucked in thinking I could build it for $25k..... Nope. Sure, you could build it for that, but you most likely won't be competitive. There are now some 818R builds I know have gone well over what I spent just looking at the parts they are installing.

I just suggest everyone add up "New" parts, then and add them to the cost of the 818R kit price. Then add another 30% to it. I know Gator did this, and his build in parts would be over $45k (no labor). He is now considering other cars. Once you get over a certain amount, you enter into a different level of car (especially if you add labor into the mix).

My last piece of advice (well known in racing), is always buy someone else's car that is done. The buyer of mine paid $25k, with tons of spares (perfect 2nd transmission, 2nd set of race wheels etc) He got a steal. He is picking it up on the 30th after he gets back from vacation. Part of me was happy to sell it, another part was sort of sad. I'll forget all about the sad part once the Transport drops off my Complete NP01 at my house.

Also, for those who are racing wheel 2 wheel seriously. You really want to look at the cage design. Maybe add to it. I did not feel that safe in an open car racing against 2 ton Corvettes. For DE and regular track duty it should be fine.

[metros]

I may start up a FB racing page, or another site. I'll post it here when/if i do. I'll have videos on youtube, so you can just subscribe to my channel for that. There is a private NP01 owners forum, but that does not help people wanting to see progress.

I'm having them build it in the interest of time (and it is relatively cheap compared to my time). There are still a few things I will be doing/changing, but within the rules of course. The first Pacific NP01 Series race is the middle of March at Willow Springs. I will fly out to Elan within the next month for the tour and to see/turn a wrench on my car. They will be also pouring my seat. I'm in the process of designing the wrap for it with the help of some installers near Elan.

Not my wrap- But this one looks pretty cool. I'm going with Grey, White, and my normal Blue.
https://www.instagram.com/p/_KkOBSR1Mc/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/_pQ_hfR1GE/)
https://www.instagram.com/p/_KkOBSR1Mc/

^^^That wrap design does look killer.

Make sure to update us whichever avenue you go (FB page or forum thread). I'd like to continue following your experiences with the new ride.

Martini livery for the NP01? I always like it on your 818.

[Frank818]

You da man, Chadfornia!

[Mitch Wright]

My R is coming in at just under 36K not including any spares other than a extra set of wheels. I head to the dyno in a few weeks to see if I am close to my 275hp target.
Like any racer we will spend what we have.

[RetroRacing]

We are probably over $60k right now, still have some things to complete, 7k just in the fuel system for a real, legal fuel cell that can carry 33 gallons, dual dry brake and all Kevlar lines. We also have over 500 hours just in the body, mostly in the rear, to close up gaps, fit the body lines, make it possible to work on the engine blah blah.
It's all about what you want to do with the car, track days and the odd sprint race, you can probably follow the manual and all good, but if you want to run the car to potential, this is a $75k car all done. Considering my scca EP car has about $50k in it, and an engine is 4k to rebuild, this is still a rather cheap option for the level of performance and the low cost of servicing (ever pay for a brake job on a Cup car?)

[C.Plavan]

We are probably over $60k right now, still have some things to complete, 7k just in the fuel system for a real, legal fuel cell that can carry 33 gallons, dual dry brake and all Kevlar lines. We also have over 500 hours just in the body, mostly in the rear, to close up gaps, fit the body lines, make it possible to work on the engine blah blah.
It's all about what you want to do with the car, track days and the odd sprint race, you can probably follow the manual and all good, but if you want to run the car to potential, this is a $75k car all done. Considering my scca EP car has about $50k in it, and an engine is 4k to rebuild, this is still a rather cheap option for the level of performance and the low cost of servicing (ever pay for a brake job on a Cup car?)

I thought I was crazy! :). You do have a great build going on, I can't wait to see it on the track.

BTW- Brake jobs are not the problem on Cup Cars. It's the transmission, Engine rebuilds and those darn axle replacements :)

I could of bought a Cup, but I was talked out of it because of maintenance. I'm also thinking resale down the road with the NP01. I have already made money on it and I have not even recieved it yet. Since they sold the first ~25, the price is now $72,500 in kit form (Don't confuse "Kit Form" with FFR "Kit's"- Elan does not make you cut/weld/fix known problems- It is truly bolt together-Engine, Trans, ECU, wiring harness, Fire bottle, Brakes etc. Also, $81,500 built from Elan Turnkey without any additional options). I just closed the gap on what I lost on the 818R :P

[TouchStone]

My R is coming in at just under 36K not including any spares other than a extra set of wheels. I head to the dyno in a few weeks to see if I am close to my 275hp target.
Like any racer we will spend what we have.

I thought your target was 300;)

[Mulry]

Also, for those who are racing wheel 2 wheel seriously. You really want to look at the cage design. Maybe add to it. I did not feel that safe in an open car racing against 2 ton Corvettes. For DE and regular track duty it should be fine.

Where do you think that bars need to be added? We're adding a solid steel anti-intrusion plate on the driver's side but I'd love to hear where you think there should be some additional protection since you've been on track with yours and mine is still sitting in the garage waiting for the Lemons car to finish getting rebuilt. Thx Chad.

[C.Plavan]

Where do you think that bars need to be added? We're adding a solid steel anti-intrusion plate on the driver's side but I'd love to hear where you think there should be some additional protection since you've been on track with yours and mine is still sitting in the garage waiting for the Lemons car to finish getting rebuilt. Thx Chad.

I had a real metal plate for side intrusion also. I would totally enclose the driver's head going off the front (hidden under dash) hoop. Make it more like a coupe roll cage. You don't want to scoop up a car, or roll it in mud/dirt after contact.... I had no issues in testing on an open track, it just got freaky for me when you had a ton of monster cars fighting for the corner while racing. You are really exposed head wise. Your helmet also takes a beating from debris.

Also keep in mind the rear hoop is welded on a Square tube that has open ends.....

[RetroRacing]

We are toying with adding a foam crash pad into the doors aka Corvette racing, for side impact. Trying to keep this beast under 1800lbs......

[C.Plavan]

We are toying with adding a foam crash pad into the doors aka Corvette racing, for side impact. Trying to keep this beast under 1800lbs......

Then you fill it up with 200 pounds of gas :) I used High Strength Aluminum for my side intrusion panel. Stronger than mild steel, half the weight.

[Mulry]

We are toying with adding a foam crash pad into the doors aka Corvette racing, for side impact. Trying to keep this beast under 1800lbs......

I read about that sometime in the last couple years, but I can't find the article. But it discussed how they engineered that via a partnership with some school (Wayne State seems to come to mind?). I've thought about doing that exact same thing on the outside of our steel anti-intrusion plate. I went with steel because I wanted to weld it to the bars so that it couldn't shear rivets in an impact. We will probably dimple die the crap out of it to reduce the weight and increase the strength.

Anyway, back to the anti-intrusion foam crash box thing. For some reason I seem to think that it was a kevlar and honeycomb design that they came up with. It looks like this stuff is what NASCAR is using in their driver-side crash boxes outside the safety cage, but I don't know if we could buy it or how much it would cost:

http://www.coastal-automotive.com/energy-absorbing-materials/extruded-polystyrene/

[C.Plavan]

I read about that sometime in the last couple years, but I can't find the article. But it discussed how they engineered that via a partnership with some school (Wayne State seems to come to mind?). I've thought about doing that exact same thing on the outside of our steel anti-intrusion plate. I went with steel because I wanted to weld it to the bars so that it couldn't shear rivets in an impact. We will probably dimple die the crap out of it to reduce the weight and increase the strength.

Anyway, back to the anti-intrusion foam crash box thing. For some reason I seem to think that it was a kevlar and honeycomb design that they came up with. It looks like this stuff is what NASCAR is using in their driver-side crash boxes outside the safety cage, but I don't know if we could buy it or how much it would cost:

http://www.coastal-automotive.com/energy-absorbing-materials/extruded-polystyrene/

I used rivnuts on my intrusion panel (I only went into the square bars). Rivets would be a disaster.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

but I don't know if we could buy it or how much it would cost:

http://www.coastal-automotive.com/energy-absorbing-materials/extruded-polystyrene/

Here is a place that sells impaxx foam.

https://www.rollbarpadding.com/product/id-69

For a door I would look at 24" x 40" x 4"thick $200
Bob

[RetroRacing]

That's the stuff! If it's good enough for Nazcaw, its good enough for me!:D

[RetroRacing]

And that's 204.9 lbs of fuel, just to be clear....:cool:

[Mulry]

That's the stuff! If it's good enough for Nazcaw, its good enough for me!:D

Ideally, we'd find a way to sculpt that material to match the inner contour of the door skin and fill it in all the way, but I guess just getting the outline correct will be about the best we could do. Dow says that the "Impaxx foam has multiple attachment methods, including tape, hot-melt (glue?), mechanical screws and clips, heat staking, sonic welding, plus others."

Assuming that everybody who's racing these is doing some kind of anti-intrusion panel on the outside of the cage (my steel panel, Chad's uber-aluminum panel, etc), any thoughts what would be the best way to attach the Impaxx foam to the panel to ensure that it stays in place during an impact rather than just getting sheared off (in something like a quartering hit)?

[Zach34]

Assuming that everybody who's racing these is doing some kind of anti-intrusion panel on the outside of the cage (my steel panel, Chad's uber-aluminum panel, etc), any thoughts what would be the best way to attach the Impaxx foam to the panel to ensure that it stays in place during an impact rather than just getting sheared off (in something like a quartering hit)?

I'm guessing glue would work? I mean, the foam is there to absorb a little energy in a side t-bone collision before impacting the cage. The more quartering or glancing the impact is, the less direct-impact energy there is to absorb.

[RetroRacing]

Our plan is glue it into the door, then mech fasten the door to the body. Imagine the hollow of the door filled with the foam, up against the exterior mounted alum panel, that is glued and riveted to the side bars. better than a sedan with gutted doors in my opinion.

Then, it will only be my wallet that is hollow.....er.

[C.Plavan]

Brayden had is last drive in the 818R. It went to the new owner yesterday. The 911 racecar is lonely, all alone in the garage. It won't be lonely too long.

http://i.imgur.com/fHJ59tE.jpg

[Sgt.Gator]

Chad before you disappear into NP01 Land...what was your final racing wet weight?
Do you have the corner weights?

[C.Plavan]

Chad before you disappear into NP01 Land...what was your final racing wet weight?
Do you have the corner weights?

Hp/wt for ST2. I had to pull off the track to the scales at 2266 (with me and all my driver gear). I made it by 4 pounds first race.
460 463
703 640

[Sgt.Gator]

Hp/wt for ST2. I had to pull off the track to the scales at 2266 (with me and all my driver gear). I made it by 4 pounds first race.
460 463
703 640

Thanks. Stop by and update us occasionally on your new journey!

[Sgt.Gator]

Chad's next garage pic:

http://elanmotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_2840.jpg

[C.Plavan]

They are building it right now. :) Mine will have some tweaks I requested. Also lots of Reflective Gold film on the firewall and near muffler. I can't wait. I also have the new gigantic color MXG Aim dash going in -That should be pretty darn cool.

More like this-
http://i.imgur.com/Uk15mvUl.jpg (http://imgur.com/Uk15mvU)

[RetroRacing]

THAT is a thing! I love that dash, BTW. We are using the IQ3, but still love that dash. I notice the foam blocks on the door panel, ours are here now as well, not cheap! Is there a drybrake on each side of the car? 1.5" or 2.25"?

[Scargo]

It is a beautiful and simple design. The reversed exhaust! What is the Alumilite-like, yellow, laminate material for the underside?
So envious. However I haven't finished my 818. I might be tickled pink with it.

[C.Plavan]

THAT is a thing! I love that dash, BTW. We are using the IQ3, but still love that dash. I notice the foam blocks on the door panel, ours are here now as well, not cheap! Is there a drybrake on each side of the car? 1.5" or 2.25"?

They use 1.75" probes for the dry break. It's an option. You can have both sides, or one side, or just a traditional screw on cap. I went with one dry break. I plan on getting a bigger enduro cell (custom) later and make it a dual dry break.
I had them weld in a AN -16 in take fuel discriminator valve so I can just dump fuel in (Enduros).

They started on mine on Monday (Chassis #20). I can't wait!
http://i.imgur.com/l4k2qjIl.jpg (http://imgur.com/l4k2qjI)
http://i.imgur.com/1I57O2Sl.jpg (http://imgur.com/1I57O2S)
http://i.imgur.com/pS8SLwEl.jpg (http://imgur.com/pS8SLwE)
http://i.imgur.com/0HFNhQel.jpg (http://imgur.com/0HFNhQe)

[C.Plavan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zaw6O7mN30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zaw6O7mN30

[C.Plavan]

Some of you guys should check this race car out........ EJ motor based.

http://www.carmaracing.com/

[Scargo]

500 whp! That is too much for a reliable Subaru motor (out of a 2.1L, no less) Won't last a season. FFR dominated a race at WGI with an ST2 car.
I don't see much on the internet and info on their website seems stale. Next to zero on Youtube. Is this for real?

[C.Plavan]

500 whp! That is too much for a reliable Subaru motor (out of a 2.1L, no less) Won't last a season. FFR dominated a race at WGI with an ST2 car.
I don't see much on the internet and info on their website seems stale. Next to zero on Youtube. Is this for real?

Not for me, but It's brand new.

[Sgt.Gator]

I've been following their two threads on NASIOC about the Carma Wolf builds. The first one ended in a fail with the H6 3.0 due to lack of a dry sump. The second one they swapped out the H6 for the 2.1. And they learned their lesson, the stroked 2.1 has a dry sump!

I'll leave ya'll to judge the results.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2494976

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2673223

[Frank818]

Ok, that's a car. Sorry I'm building an 818. :)

[Sgt.Gator]

As long as we are discussing exotics...a local guy here is building a Superlite GT-R, a car you dig around hard to find on the RCR cars or Superlite websites. You have to keep a close eye on the GT40s forum to even know it exisits and how the builds are going. Anyway I went out to visit his build a couple of days ago. OMG! The quality of the aluminum monocoque frame, the fiberglass, and the aluminum suspension parts are beautiful. He had a brand new Ford Coyote crate motor and ZF transmission ready to install.
Of course that's why the kit alone costs $70K! (not including the engine and transmission).

[Scargo]

I've been following their two threads on NASIOC about the Carma Wolf builds. The first one ended in a fail with the H6 3.0 due to lack of a dry sump. The second one they swapped out the H6 for the 2.1. And they learned their lesson, the stroked 2.1 has a dry sump!

Funny. I found those threads and was reading them as you posted your info. I am trying to contact John Evans. There is nothing on NASIOC after August. Really interesting cars.
I made these points to John:
There are a lot of similarities in engine design ideas.
I have built a close-ratio six-speed box with OS Giken racing diff and MR2 shifter for my 818R.
The interior will be a bit laid-out like the FFR race mules (and like Chad's).
My plan is to do a similar, front, undermount turbo, like he did.
I am ready to assemble a de-stroked 2.3L motor and use a Dailey dry-sump. I was looking at Dailey's back in October of 2014.
I have the same intake, though shaved, but I intend to use a Plastic Fantastic manifold, reversed. I even planned on doing the same alternator repositioning detail. (With the small bore, high-RPM engine I think that manifold will perform better)
For the exhaust, I wanted KillerB to furnish me some pieces (but he's not interested) and three months out on exhaust systems.
The Outback system looks hard to beat as a starting point for me.
I am building my own front suspension for the 818 using S2000 spindles and 17" wheels. Doing a few other unconventional things. So not stuck completely within the Subaru parts list for the FFR kit.

Of note:
He ran his exhaust all the way to the rear. I want to terminate mine on the side, in front of the tire, on the right side. A muffler may be a bit of a challenge.
I don't understand why he has his intake/air filter in the engine compartment, right over the turbo. He said it got so hot it fell off.
The automatic tranny is somewhat interesting. dpkilty (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/member.php?u=296608) thread on NASIOC is using one. John was contributing to that thread.
Is there anything Subaru makes that would be easily adaptable in more than a four-speed auto?
Watching the NP-01s on track, I was struck by the right hand coming off the steering wheel and, as fast as it was to shift, I didn't like seeing him trying to shift in certain circumstances. I had had a paddle Bimmer M3. I loved it.

[C.Plavan]

Primo Example of Customer Service I have been receiving from Elan; Along with class act competitors:
The Pacific NP01 Series starts March 13th. The Atlantic series starts later. What does Elan do to make sure I get my car in time? They call the other owners who's cars are being built along side mine (On their own).

"I just spoke with the seat builder and either Feb 22 or 23 will be fine. Was one better than the other? On another note, I've spoken with the owners of both the other cars that we're building currently and both have given me permission to hold their builds so we can get yours done and try to get you to the March 12 race. We actually set up another of the chassis to fit the body so we can do 2 things at once.
That will help us get the vinyl guys over here earlier to do their thing."

Brandon White
Project Coordinator
Elan Motorsports Technologies


This is a great company, and great fellow racers. Chassis #16 and #17 owners will be getting all my setup notes. :)

[bbjones121]

So..... Is this a Factory Five forum?

[Mechie3]

Just a race car forum. :D

[C.Plavan]

So..... Is this a Factory Five forum?

It's just a world of difference in CS. That's my point.

[bbjones121]

It's just a world of difference in CS. That's my point.

I understand. I am sure you have given FFR a lot to think about. Hopefully some things are taken to heart.

You have done a lot for us in this community and we are all very thankful for your motivation, love, hate, dedication, trail blazing, and a whole bunch of time and commitment to keep in communication with all of us in this forum. Your efforts have helped us all in some way or another.

I wish you the best in the new car and supportive elan community. We will continue on with the Factory Five 818 torch for you.

[RM1SepEx]

It's just a world of difference in CS. That's my point.

much different volume # not quite an apples vs apples eval (from perhaps one of FFR's most vocal CS complainers... :rolleyes:

[Scargo]

I understand. I am sure you have given FFR a lot to think about. Hopefully some things are taken to heart.

You have done a lot for us in this community and we are all very thankful for your motivation, love, hate, dedication, trail blazing, and a whole bunch of time and commitment to keep in communication with all of us in this forum. Your efforts have helped us all in some way or another. ...
I agree. This is Chad's thread after all and he has paid his dues and given mightily to the 818R community, as you said.
What I'd like to see from FFR is an R kit that is less compromised in the front suspension. Bump-steer is a problem as is weight and all the compromised geometry for a race car. They should also have an "out-of-the-box" solution for cooling that works. I don't think anyone has had success at the track in the generic kit form.
The NP-01 has given me some ideas, so I appreciate the intro into that class. I sure look forward to seeing them go at it. Can an 818R ever measure up/be competitive?

[C.Plavan]

much different volume # not quite an apples vs apples eval (from perhaps one of FFR's most vocal CS complainers... :rolleyes:

That made me laugh! :). True, but it should not be that way. FFR sells more cars, has more employees.

Just a much welcomed observation. Nothing more. No need to debate.

[C.Plavan]

NP01 thread started in the OT section for those who want to follow. Head over there if you want more info.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?20124-Elan-NP01-Prototype-Spec-Racer-Plavan-Racing-02&p=227248#post227248

[Frank818]

So..... Is this a Factory Five forum?

This is Chad's forum. :)

[C.Plavan]

Since David decided to close the NP01 thread because it was too "Salesy" For the people who asked to follow- you can follow it here on FB

https://www.facebook.com/Plavan-Racing-1659691177614220/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

[Sgt.Gator]

since david decided to close the np01 thread because it was too "salesy" for the people who asked to follow- you can follow it here on fb

https://www.facebook.com/plavan-racing-1659691177614220/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

liked!

[129st]

Since David decided to close the NP01 thread because it was too "Salesy" For the people who asked to follow- you can follow it here on FB

https://www.facebook.com/Plavan-Racing-1659691177614220/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

Chad,
The forum community definitely supports you, but it appears the admin is not responsive to the community. The forum is the real loser in this deal.

I'll keep following your NP01 on Facebook, but I DO NOT post to Facebook. I'll just be a lurker from now on. Signing off.

[Rob T]

Hi: This is Rob T. I am the new, proud owner of Chad's 818R. I am very grateful to Chad and the people on this forum for the support you provide. I am excited to get started. The last several weeks have been spent getting familiar with the car and setting up my trailer. In the near future, I plan to autocross the car (to get familiar with some of its performance), followed by some open track time at Buttonwillow. I am an engineer by education, but a relative novice when it comes to building cars. I look forward to getting to know many of you.

[Scargo]

Excellent! I'd like to see you start your own thread so we can follow your adventures.

[Hindsight]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the purchase - it is a very well-built car. Please create a thread to keep us all posted of your experiences on the track!

[Sgt.Gator]

Great to have you here Rob T!

[metalmaker12]

Cool stuff

[C.Plavan]

Just a quick, worthy update on my old car:

Rob had it out at BW this last weekend. 103 degrees out. The cars oil got to 189 degrees with both front coolers blocked off at the bumper (rear still working like normal)- he could probably remove the front coolers now. Water temp was 190-195, AWIC temp 110-115 at speed. Oil pressures at 80 psi.

So the car can work in 100+ ambient temps. everything worked great in the heat, and most of all- Rob is having a blast with it.

I'm going to stress this one last time-

DRY SUMP YOUR CARS IF YOU ARE ON THE TRACK. YOU HAVE A TICKING TIME BOMB IF NOT. It could last 20min, or 1 season- It will blow up if you are pulling any G's. DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP! This is the reason my car is still turning laps on the track- Smiles per Miles is very high.

[bbjones121]

Just a quick, worthy update on my old car:

Rob had it out at BW this last weekend. 103 degrees out. The cars oil got to 189 degrees with both front coolers blocked off at the bumper (rear still working like normal)- he could probably remove the front coolers now. Water temp was 190-195, AWIC temp 110-115 at speed. Oil pressures at 80 psi.

So the car can work in 100+ ambient temps. everything worked great in the heat, and most of all- Rob is having a blast with it.

I'm going to stress this one last time-

DRY SUMP YOUR CARS IF YOU ARE ON THE TRACK. YOU HAVE A TICKING TIME BOMB IF NOT. It could last 20min, or 1 season- It will blow up if you are pulling any G's. DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP! This is the reason my car is still turning laps on the track- Smiles per Miles is very high.

Thank you for the update. Great to hear

[Sgt.Gator]

Just a quick, worthy update on my old car:

Rob had it out at BW this last weekend. 103 degrees out. The cars oil got to 189 degrees with both front coolers blocked off at the bumper (rear still working like normal)- he could probably remove the front coolers now. Water temp was 190-195, AWIC temp 110-115 at speed. Oil pressures at 80 psi.

So the car can work in 100+ ambient temps. everything worked great in the heat, and most of all- Rob is having a blast with it.

I'm going to stress this one last time-

DRY SUMP YOUR CARS IF YOU ARE ON THE TRACK. YOU HAVE A TICKING TIME BOMB IF NOT. It could last 20min, or 1 season- It will blow up if you are pulling any G's. DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP, DRYSUMP! This is the reason my car is still turning laps on the track- Smiles per Miles is very high.

So for a concise recap on your final DS system, here's what I recall, please correct my mistakes:
1) Aviaid Pump. Did you get the larger pump pulley (bigger than the one Element originally sent) ?
2) Peterson Tank.
3) Spintric aos in the scavenge return line almost right at the tank. One line into the tank for oil, one for the air/blowby.
4) OBX Underdrive pulley. (Not just a lightweight oem circumference.)
5) I think you went with the vented block to the DS tank also? (Mine is the sealed block).
6) Cooler on the scavenge return line to the DS tank, but prior to the Spintric?
7) All -12AN.
8) No DS tank heater, but probably a good idea in some climates/racing conditions.
9) If you don't have the A/C bracket and parts you'll need them to run the serp belt. (I have a list I can send anyone the needs it)
10) Aviaid mounting plate to adapt the pump to the A/C bracket.
11) Valvoline 20-W50 Racing oil.
12) ARE DS oil pan for Subaru.
13) Catch Can w/Breather off DS tank.

Anything else?

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the update Chad. I recall following your temp battle very closely, but I do not recall what the final modification was that allowed you to overcome the oil temp issues. Was it the anti-froth device?

[C.Plavan]

Thanks for the update Chad. I recall following your temp battle very closely, but I do not recall what the final modification was that allowed you to overcome the oil temp issues. Was it the anti-froth device?

Honestly, I hit it with a BIG HAMMER (Lots of changes at once) I think the 10mm oil pump did the most help. The 11mm pump was probably causing the oil to bypass in the motor and just circulate in the motor the whole time. That caused the oil to heat up and not properly flow through the coolers.

Now, it has too many oil coolers if the owner is taping off both fronts in 100 degree plus weather (189 degree oil temp)

[C.Plavan]

So for a concise recap on your final DS system, here's what I recall, please correct my mistakes:
1) Aviaid Pump. Did you get the larger pump pulley (bigger than the one Element originally sent) ? I used the same, supplied pulley
2) Peterson Tank. Yep
3) Spintric aos in the scavenge return line almost right at the tank. One line into the tank for oil, one for the air/blowby. Yep
4) OBX Underdrive pulley. (Not just a lightweight oem circumference.) Yep
5) I think you went with the vented block to the DS tank also? (Mine is the sealed block). I vented mine- I was getting weird pressure readings with it sealed
6) Cooler on the scavenge return line to the DS tank, but prior to the Spintric? They had me switch it up- I used Spintric AFTER the oil coolers since I had so many coolers- It helped with the flow.
7) All -12AN. Yep
8) No DS tank heater, but probably a good idea in some climates/racing conditions. No Heater
9) If you don't have the A/C bracket and parts you'll need them to run the serp belt. (I have a list I can send anyone the needs it) Exactly
10) Aviaid mounting plate to adapt the pump to the A/C bracket. Yep
11) Valvoline 20-W50 Racing oil. Yes- but I think any good racing oil will work with the Spintric possibly
12) ARE DS oil pan for Subaru. Yep
13) Catch Can w/Breather off DS tank. Yep

Anything else?
I would try the Drysump setup without the Spintric first to save money. Just make sure you have a 10mm oil pump/ not an 11mm. You could also possibly do -10AN oil lines- Coming from the Porsches I was use to -12AN.

[Hindsight]

Thanks Chad.

[C.Plavan]

I was out helping another NP01 driver test his car out at Buttonwillow yesterday. Low and behold, my old 818R zoomed down the front straight. The crew I was with all thought it was a Lotus. I then got to tell them that was the car I built and sold for the NP01. It looks good on the track. I never saw anyone else ever driving it. Fire out the tailpipe and everything. It was also over 100 degrees- still working great. There is alot of sweat & cursing in that car!

[Hindsight]

I'm jealous.... I'm just starting down the track of fixing overheating, ensuring I have adequate oiling, etc. Based on your long journey, I have a ways to go (both in time and money). I bet it was cool watching the car go down the track!

[ben1272]

Chad, do you have a NP01 build blog hosted somewhere?

[C.Plavan]

I'm jealous.... I'm just starting down the track of fixing overheating, ensuring I have adequate oiling, etc. Based on your long journey, I have a ways to go (both in time and money). I bet it was cool watching the car go down the track!

It was nice to see someone else enjoying it. Rob was all smiles and made some neat comfort improvements in the cockpit. He has been bitten by the Hoosier Crack- He is Hoosier tire only now.

Are you having coolant overheating? I fixed my issue once I bought the Airlift coolant tool (Creates Vacuum and fills the coolant system without air pockets). It did what the big yellow funnel could not do.

[C.Plavan]

Chad, do you have a NP01 build blog hosted somewhere?

I do not. I happily paid $8000 for Elan to build it. My Wife still likes me, it was her idea. She did not want me hiding in the garage building it. Elan is Panoz, Deltawing. They know how to build really great racecars. I got to build/add some of the stuff- the cost of them building it was worth not messing with composite body panels :) :)

Here is a cool new NP01 video they released. :cool::cool:


https://www.facebook.com/DriveNASANP01/videos/290346288004298/

[Hindsight]

Are you having coolant overheating?

I am. I have an air lift as well, and also the self-bleeding setup where the radiator bleed hose and the aluminum coolant pipe on top of the engine both have a small hose that goes to the degas tank. But in my case, I believe my issue is due to having ZERO ducting for the radiator and no splitter either. I run my rad fans on high 100% of the time but it isn't enough, apparently. I plan to duct the radiator and then also add a new water pump (the kind with the cast impeller instead of the stamped one - supposed to work better).

[C.Plavan]

I am. I have an air lift as well, and also the self-bleeding setup where the radiator bleed hose and the aluminum coolant pipe on top of the engine both have a small hose that goes to the degas tank. But in my case, I believe my issue is due to having ZERO ducting for the radiator and no splitter either. I run my rad fans on high 100% of the time but it isn't enough, apparently. I plan to duct the radiator and then also add a new water pump (the kind with the cast impeller instead of the stamped one - supposed to work better).

I see. Yeah, I had to block off everything. I used aluminum and Bulb Seal. On the drivers side of the radiator, I used the foam you get at the Hardware store that is meant for your rain gutters (to keep leaves out) I packed that in there nice and tight.

[Scargo]

Has anyone gotten rid of the coolant crossover tube (water inlet pipe) and/or all emissions-warmer/heater take-offs from the water pump? You could go all the way back to the 1/2" outlets on the water pump, pull the tubes and plug the holes. I was tempted, but left them in. Seems eliminating them would improve flow in the engine.

[Hindsight]

Thanks Chad, that is the approach I will take as well. Lots of cardboard templates!

Glyn, I removed all the coolant pipes and tubes on mine. You need the one for the heater core and the degas tank return though - I left those.

[Rob T]

Hi: The is Rob. I bought Chad's 818R. As he said, I made few mods to make it fit me better. Seat, switches, etc. I was out yesterday and did four 5 lap sessions at Buttonwillow. Course 25CCW. I am learning still and working on heal/toe. It was 100F at the track. Water temp was 195, but I did not run the alternate fan. Two oil coolers up front are taped off and oil temp was 210. AWIC was 110. I hit a max of 126mph and 1.54G both left and right with the Hoosier A6's at 31psi. 120 mph+ is jiggly even with aero on my helmet. I am going to put a link to a video next. Car is running great. Only thing I've done is replace the CV's and axles with units from The Axle Shop. Fit perfectly. This car is far more than the driver right now, but I am learning quickly.

[Rob T]

Here is a link to my lap. Rob T

https://youtu.be/L814vpY4uwY

[Rob T]

Sorry: The Drive Shaft Shop. They were awesome to work with, too.

[C.Plavan]

Here is a link to my lap. Rob T

https://youtu.be/L814vpY4uwY

I'm glad you are enjoying it. Keep getting that seat time and practice what we talked about. You will get more comfortable each time. You took the ultimate leap for a first race car. :)

[Frank818]

Vents, vents, and more vents!

http://i.imgur.com/dCzrKGGl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/C2RW7ZYl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Khu5b8dl.jpg

Chad, not sure you're still following your thread but if yes, I see you located the vents centered above the wheel. If you had to do it again, would you locate them at the same place or more backwards or more forward?

Hope you have fun with your awesome NP01!

[C.Plavan]

Chad, not sure you're still following your thread but if yes, I see you located the vents centered above the wheel. If you had to do it again, would you locate them at the same place or more backwards or more forward?

Hope you have fun with your awesome NP01!

I would not change them. I based the location off of the 991 GT3 RS. Rob says they work great- He went off in the dirt and the vents threw dirt straight out at speed. :)

[Frank818]

Tnx man, we got a proof is does let stuff out of the vents. :)

[Rob T]

Yes....I can vouch that I tested the vents. Also quite a bit out of the hood vent. The dirt at Buttonwillow is pretty powdery. The vents worked. It took me 60 minutes with a shop vac to get the dirt off the front tray and all the little nooks and crannies. No damage to the car whatsoever. My pride, well that's what learning is all about....