818 SEMA Update WITH PICS!

[David Hodgkins]

I just learned that FFR is bringing three 818's to SEMA! A chassis, a street version roadster and an 818R.

The 818R will be painted to match the renderings shown earlier this year.

No other info is forthcoming, but now we know they are bringing 3 chassis to SEMA

I CAN'T WAIT!

:)

EDIT: More info IS forthcoming! Read on!

[Mechie3]

Sweet!

[33rodlovr]

Wow... Cant Wait.... Exciting times at FFR....

B

[RM1SepEx]

Dave told us that they were doing the 3 chassis approach for SEMA a couple months ago... I'm sure that is why they are so busy!

[riptide motorsport]

Awesome!

[Kalstar]

It will be a rush to the finish line. I was there a few weeks ago and they said they had not installed one body panel yet . They also told be the white/blue rendering is one of a few cars they are bringing to SEMA. Can't wait to see the finished product at SEMA. Exciting times ahead for F5R.

Come on leak us some more info......

[timmy318]

:D can't wait to see this thing finally become real!!!!!

[David Hodgkins]

I became aware of some inside info today and I'm still recovering from it! I am VERY excited to see this thing in real life!

Here is some of the additional inside info, leaked to me today. I, as ever, remain committed to FACTUAL info and got verification from my inside source before posting this.

Ready?


FFR will indeed have three 818's at SEMA; A street car (likely painted red metallic), the 818R (which will debut in KONI shocks display in same graphics as rendering) and a rolling chassis (with the twin-turbo legacy engine) in the FFR display.
FFR will launch the car as a roadster and will hit the $9900 price point target. A soft top is planned to be offered concurrently with launch made by rod tops (same as high-line cobra and 33 HR).
Body panels on the first 3-5 cars will be red gel-coated hand-laid fiberglass and the plan is to quickly transition to resin-infused or thermo-formed plastic (no paint) panels that are in-process currently.
The subject of DEPOSITS was discussed and the current info is that FFR MIGHT take deposits at, or just after SEMA!


There is more MAJOR news, that I may release soon. This will be an EXCLUSIVE to TheFactoryFiveForum.com! Stay tuned!

:)

[PhyrraM]

Great news. Even if a bit expected, because Dave laid out the plans to us months ago, before the blackout.

Interesting on the choice of a Legacy twin turbo motor. Could be an effort to show commitment to a world car? Could be just a cheap eBay purchase? Could be both?

A tad (small tad!) dissapointed that the body panel situation isn't 100% sorted yet. I'm sure it will be after the first beta builds.

[shinn497]

Any news is good news. I am hoping that more chasis will be available as they are easier/cheaper to ontain. There are lots more 95-99 imprezas than 2002-2007.

[apexanimal]

Interesting on the choice of a Legacy twin turbo motor. Could be an effort to show commitment to a world car? Could be just a cheap eBay purchase? Could be both?

iirc dave said a while ago that they wanted to show both sides of the 818 - the basic street version, and then an example of what could be done with it performance wise...

[Samiam1017]

Interesting on the choice of a Legacy twin turbo motor. Could be an effort to show commitment to a world car? Could be just a cheap eBay purchase? Could be both?
What kind of HP is stock? I thought there was a discussion about the exhaust routing with this motor not allowing it to work? I maybe be wrong

A tad (small tad!) dissapointed that the body panel situation isn't 100% sorted yet. I'm sure it will be after the first beta builds.

what do you think the weight differences will be between the first fiberglass ones to the final production plastic pieces?

[Benji]

So where should we all meet :)

Also, bit of a weird question since we are in the 818 section but do we know if there will be any other FFR cars such as the roadster, coupe and '33?

[Racebrewer]

WOW..... There will be a major responsibilty resting on the shoulders of the SEMA attendees.......

The rest of us want PHOTOS.... Tons of photos. Pack extra batteries and memory cards, please.<LOL>

John

[timmy318]

enough photos to create a 3D model of both cars inside & out :p

[flynntuna]

I would like to know how many body panels there are, if the front rear are clam shell, and were the parting lines are.

[FFR-ADV]

Congratulations to Jim & the FFR 818 development team!

It must be mayhem in the shop getting three 818s ready plus all of the other cars and show material FFR is bringing.

Just throwing an idea out there. Perhaps after the show the 818s could find their way over to the speedway for some video footage?

Thank you David Hodgkins and all of the others who will be giving updates from SEMA!

Cheers!

[David Hodgkins]

I would like to know how many body panels there are, if the front rear are clam shell, and were the parting lines are.

Here is some new info regarding the body panels:

There are currently 13 body panels for the street car. There are currently 10 panels for the 818R (no door liners or hood liner).

1. front lower nose 2. pass fender 3. driver fender 4. front hood 5. front hood liner (in-process) 6. pass rear 1/4 panel 7. driver rear 1/4 panel 8. rear tail clip 9. rear deck hatch/cowls 10. pass door 11. pass door liner (in-process) 12. driver door 13. driver door liner (in-process).

In addition, there is a front cargo splitter, carbon side skirts, and carbon rear diffuser and rear aero wing.

There MIGHT be new VISUAL news released tomorrow, but no guarantee (hedging my bet, begging for an OK to release).

From the pics I've seen, there are no body seams visible, and the parting lines (where panels come together) are strategically placed. The car, in pics I've seen, looks absolutely killer. The chassis has continued to evolve, especially in differences between the 818 street and 818R chassis. In particular, the side impact area has been beefed up substantially, there are more stiffness bars visible and there is now a difference between the 818 street and 818R roll hoops.

:)

[Benji]

Hey Dave, do you know if there will be other FFR cars at the show?

[narkosys]

You just made my mouth water just READING your last post Dave. As much as i am looking at a GTM, I am also interested in the 818 as it looks like it will be a great project. Cant wait to see the pictures and the official release. :D

P

[PhyrraM]

Thanks Dave! .....and Dave......and Jim.....and......and......and..

[timmy318]

You just made my mouth water just READING your last post Dave. As much as i am looking at a GTM, I am also interested in the 818 as it looks like it will be a great project. Cant wait to see the pictures and the official release. :D

P

Yea, hopefully after the 818 build it'll be possible for me to build the GTM, or just might build another 818 if it even slightly meets the standards that I'm thinking it will! :D

[flynntuna]

I feel like a kid waiting for Santa. LOL

[timmy318]

Me too!

[metalmaker12]

Me too!
Sounding good, I have all my donors parts ready to build the kit, would really like to put a deposit down asap. I hope that is a option because I hate having parts lie around when everyone in my subie circle calls me for parts.

[timmy318]

Sounding good, I have all my donors parts ready to build the kit, would really like to put a deposit down asap. I hope that is a option because I hate having parts lie around when everyone in my subie circle calls me for parts.

My dad and I bought a Subaru impreza for gutting it but then decided against it because it was just to good to gut. We bought a package from AWJ Performance and that should be getting here around november or so I think is what they said. But yea, hopefully they'll at least let us put down a deposit for the 818 :D, only problem is like dave said that the first couple won't have the resin-infused or thermo-formed plastic..... Hopefully that won't be the case because I'm hoping to get an early chassis number but if I have to wait a bit for them to roll out with the no-paint option I will I guess even if it pains me to see everyone else working on their 818s' :p

[Mechie3]

All (mostly?) great news!

Side impact: Glad to hear this. Never cared much (as I'm a rather good driver) but my wreck in my 06 WRX really impressed upon me that it's not my driving I need to be concerned about, it's others driving that needs some work at times. Since then I've cared more about safety. Side impact protection is great.

Gel coat/thermo formed: So, if I want in early, or even place a deposit, I get a red car? I noticed you used "painted" a lot, implying these models shown won't be using the final process. Is this just to be a time saver for Sema? I actually like the white/blue rendering and wonder if the car can come in the color from FFR.

818R vs roadster: Door liners are inside body panels I assume, what is the hood liner? Do the door liners not come on the 818R simply for weight savings, or do they not physically fit? Interested to see the other differences. Interested in the look (and cost) of the carbon parts and whether or not they are DD worthy, or if they'd become an expensive piece of road debris after the first pothole.

Deposits: Any benefit (discount?) to being an early adopter besides being first?

Visual: PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSEEEEEE!

[timmy318]

^lol^

[RM1SepEx]

Wow,

Great news/update! Looking forward to the next visual update too!

My donor parts are about 90% ready so other than the LSD install that I have not identified a vendor for yet all my donor parts will be painted, powdercoated or rebuilt within the next week or two

Can't wait

[David Hodgkins]

Side impact: Glad to hear this. Never cared much (as I'm a rather good driver) but my wreck in my 06 WRX really impressed upon me that it's not my driving I need to be concerned about, it's others driving that needs some work at times. Since then I've cared more about safety. Side impact protection is great.


The side impact area I was referring to was on the 818R. It looked like it was beefed up to pass SCCA (Race) standards. The side impact for the street roadster looks at first blush to be more substantial than a current C-car. Which means that if you want to do mods to your street car for ultimate race cage protection, there is an upgrade path.



Gel coat/thermo formed: So, if I want in early, or even place a deposit, I get a red car? I noticed you used "painted" a lot, implying these models shown won't be using the final process. Is this just to be a time saver for Sema? I actually like the white/blue rendering and wonder if the car can come in the color from FFR.


I'm assuming the body panels will be finalized by the time the 818 is released to the public. The first 2-3 cars are spoken for anyway. Grassroots Motorsports is selected to build production car chassis #002 for their readers. (I hope it's OK to say that) D. Smith is keeping chassis 001. Chassis #3 MIGHT be delegated to, well, I can't get into that yet. :) The next few after that will go to Beta builders. So going by the quote earlier, the body should be fully finalized before any non-beta user receives delivery.



818R vs roadster: Door liners are inside body panels I assume, what is the hood liner? Do the door liners not come on the 818R simply for weight savings, or do they not physically fit? Interested to see the other differences. Interested in the look (and cost) of the carbon parts and whether or not they are DD worthy, or if they'd become an expensive piece of road debris after the first pothole.


Same as door liners. The hood has an outer and inner surface, like the doors. Current spec racers only us outer panels, no liners. I don't have any other info about the rest...



Deposits: Any benefit (discount?) to being an early adopter besides being first?


No idea, I'm guessing probably not.



Visual: PLEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSEEEEEE!

I feel like the cat that swallowed the Canary. The 818's going to Vegas aren't done being built yet but I've seen pics of the 818R with body panels in place, as well as pics of the roadster chassis. :D I'm currently begging the powers that be for permission to post them...

:)

[timmy318]

laksjdlaksjdlkajslkdjalksjdasd....... Honestly I don't think I'm going to be able to sleep until they unveil the 818! Hopefully you're right that they will be able to get the panels' done by the time they release it to the public. Also, what do you mean by beta builders, is that open to the public or is it just a couple shops here and there or something of that nature?

[David Hodgkins]

what do you think the weight differences will be between the first fiberglass ones to the final production plastic pieces?

No idea...


Hey Dave, do you know if there will be other FFR cars at the show?

I'll ask.


.../what do you mean by beta builders, is that open to the public or is it just a couple shops here and there or something of that nature?

In the past it was experienced FFR builders by invitation. At least that's how I remember it for the '33 and GTM.

:)

[flytosail]

Why do I have a picture in my head of a group of FFR folks in the back of a tractor trailer finishing up the prototypes? It really impresses me that FFR heard that we want to see the different models and they are coming through with it. Can't ask for more than that.


Like timmy318, I hope this will be the first of two FFR that I want to build. The GTM seems to be a bit much to take on as a first build. Plus the cost.

[2FAST4U]

Hmmm...maybe I should build an 818 first and then a 289FIA Roadster. Did you talk to Dave for me?

[Flamshackle]

I feel like the cat that swallowed the Canary. The 818's going to Vegas aren't done being built yet but I've seen pics of the 818R with body panels in place, as well as pics of the roadster chassis. :D I'm currently begging the powers that be for permission to post them...

Well I am back now and glad that there is finally some new info to read. I had almost forgotten this project! ... Just kidding ;)

Just dying to see the actual car images so please beg harder Dave Hodgkins! hahaha...

[David Hodgkins]

Bill (2FAST),

I'll mention it when I talk to him this week.

:)

[timmy318]

Like timmy318, I hope this will be the first of two FFR that I want to build. The GTM seems to be a bit much to take on as a first build. Plus the cost.

Well for me it is the cost. I've already built a '33 with my dad but I also feel that can't compare with a GTM build. Each car has it's own set of hic-ups that need to be addressed but I'm not ready to lay that kind of money on a car like that when I can make an 818 that is hopefully more comfortable and versatile than the GTM for a quarter of the cost. Don't get me wrong, the GTM looks AMAZING!!!! But, the 818 will have to do for now due to all the excitement in me dying to see it & finally being able to build it after a LONG LONG wait :p! And yes, David Hodgkins you've been great with the info so far but... As everyone else is saying, stop teasing us with all that juicy info and hand it over!!! :p

[wallace18]

Wow! I need to go on vacation more often. I was gone for 6 days and all this great info on the 818 came out. I'll go on another this weekend to further the info comng out. LOL. I am ready with all my donor parts as well. I can wait till they are up to normal production. I want to see the list of options. Hopefully after SEMA the picture will be more clear.

[Mechie3]

I've never tried this myself, but everyone always tells me it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. I think that means you post pics now, and tell Dave later (or let him find out by himself, hopefully when you're not within arms reach).

;)

[David Hodgkins]

I've never tried this myself, but everyone always tells me it's better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. I think that means you post pics now, and tell Dave later (or let him find out by himself, hopefully when you're not within arms reach).

;)

HEHE, That's a good one!

:)

[Mechie3]

HEHE, That's a good one!

:)

I think something is wrong with my computer. The pictures in your post aren't showing up correctly. All I see is a blank white area. ;)


(I hope I'm not the only one hitting "refresh" every 15 minutes hoping to be the first to see something new) :lol:

[Sultan]

Wow you can't see the pictures! Man the cars look AWMAZING!!!!

:-D

[shinn497]

Tbh,

I still want to wait for SEMA.

[jcdennis]

I'd not peeked at the forum for some time... was having a very productive morning here at work and decided to take a bit of a break and see if there was any news....

Now I fear for my afternoon....

:)

[BipDBo]

My vote is to not release the pictures of the body until after SEMA. Let the car be unveiled for the first time, in the flesh at SEMA. I'd hate to see SEMA be overshadowed by another round of negative feedback on the forum. Over the computer screen, the car nut gets spoiled by constant special edition super-cars and concept renderings. A Ferrari can look bland on the computer screen. A rendering with nothing in the background with which to scale it is even further disconnected from reality. A nice car always looks much more impressive in person. Those fortunate enough go to SEMA will be able to have that experience. I'm betting that they will be impressed. They will be able to take lots of pictures of it, against a backdrop or people next to it to serve as a reference of scale. More importantly, they will be able to communicate back how great the car looks in the flesh. Also, SEMA will offer first impressions from people who have not been involved in the contest and carry the expectations that have come with picking their favorite entries.

With all that being said, I'm all in favor of as much technical info coming in early through the forum as possible. I'm interested in knowing the final weights, especially for the 818R, and if the donor list has grown. I also wouldn't mind seeing lots of photos of the car without its body panels.

[bbjones121]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

[mhoward1]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

I think it is to show how this vehicle can still have performance and quality even with an economy build.

[Mechie3]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

It's an older legacy that used a small and larger turbo. They don't fit on any LHD cars because the steering column interferes with the turbo/exhaust on the left hand side. You can pick them up rather readily from ebay or other sources. The only swap usually done is with mid 90's RHD Legacy postal cars. Not sure if they have any benefits over a newer 2.5 with AVCS and all (considering they're only a 2.0).

edit: Looks like they only made 260hp stock. I know they have some issue with the turbos switching over as well which makes a torque (or hp) dip in the middle of the rpm range.

[David Hodgkins]

Tbh,

I still want to wait for SEMA.


My vote is to not release the pictures of the body until after SEMA. Let the car be unveiled for the first time, in the flesh at SEMA. I'd hate to see SEMA be overshadowed by another round of negative feedback on the forum. Over the computer screen, the car nut gets spoiled by constant special edition super-cars and concept renderings. A Ferrari can look bland on the computer screen. A rendering with nothing in the background with which to scale it is even further disconnected from reality. A nice car always looks much more impressive in person. Those fortunate enough go to SEMA will be able to have that experience. I'm betting that they will be impressed. They will be able to take lots of pictures of it, against a backdrop or people next to it to serve as a reference of scale. More importantly, they will be able to communicate back how great the car looks in the flesh. Also, SEMA will offer first impressions from people who have not been involved in the contest and carry the expectations that have come with picking their favorite entries.

With all that being said, I'm all in favor of as much technical info coming in early through the forum as possible. I'm interested in knowing the final weights, especially for the 818R, and if the donor list has grown. I also wouldn't mind seeing lots of photos of the car without its body panels.

THANK YOU for these responses. I've been having some of the same thoughts.

I gotta be honest, I've been thinking maybe it WOULD be best to wait until SEMA for images, even if I were to receive the ok to release one or more of the ones I've acquired. We all have suffered the effects of the last time an image was released. There were posts that have resulted in Dave pulling back from the forum and going dark. Who can blame him? One approach I could take would be to heavily moderate the thread and delete or edit posts but as you can tell we have be hesitant to do that in the past. BTW, just for the record I maintain the right to do going forward, on my discretion.

I think it would disappoint some not to show images and I'm sure I'd be subjected to some negative posts for not showing images now that I've indicated I have some. One pic I have has people and other objects in the shot that give a good indication of scale. They definitely got me excited...

Please, PLEASE don't be too disappointed if it turns out I don't get approval to post a pic at this time. I think you can all understand that FFR wants to control information being leaked before SEMA. I did get permission to come forward with SOME of the info I've gotten so far, and I have made additional comments based on my own observations of the pics I've seen. I have asked for permission to post some of the comments out of respect for Dave and have chosen not to comment on some info based in part on potential feedback. I have not received any indication from FFR that I'm releasing too much information, so that's a good thing.

As I await further feedback from the powers that be regarding images, I'll try to scrutinize the pics I have to see what other technical info can be gleaned from them and post that info here. I'm walking a fine line here, and don't want to jeopardize the little leeway (and access to inside info) I've been given.

:)

[BipDBo]

I don't fully understand the legacy twin turbo use. Can those have more output than current 2.5 turbo engines?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the original donor list, which I believe still stands, did not include any 2.5 liter engines, only 2.0 liter. Lots of people have postulated using a 2.5 and a 6 speed, but as far as i know, that hasn't come from FFR. The twin turbo, EJ20R offered in Japan was perhaps the most powerful (276 hp in stock form) 2.0 liter built by Subaru. The fact that they picked this engine further confirms that FFR is not supporting the 2.5 liter, at least not yet.

[prematureapex]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the original donor list, which I believe still stands, did not include any 2.5 liter engines, only 2.0 liter. Lots of people have postulated using a 2.5 and a 6 speed, but as far as i know, that hasn't come from FFR. The twin turbo, EJ20R offered in Japan was perhaps the most powerful (276 hp in stock form) 2.0 liter built by Subaru. The fact that they picked this engine further confirms that FFR is not supporting the 2.5 liter, at least not yet.

:confused:

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

[PhyrraM]

Why don't you PM the pics to some of the Subaru gearheads to help you find the technical details....... wink-wink...nudge..nudge...;)

[David Hodgkins]

Why don't you PM the pics to some of the Subaru gearheads to help you find the technical details....... wink-wink...nudge..nudge...;)

:D :D I appreciate the offer! I'll send you my Pal Pal info. I can't take payment from a PM... :D :D

I did see some new tires and these are the sizes: 255/35 Z R18 and 225/40 Z R18.

:)

[bbjones121]

That is definitely my understanding. It was discussed as to whether or not the 3.0 would fit, but that was dismissed because the 2.5 was max size that would fit design.



:confused:

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

[PhyrraM]

Like the old small block chebbies, the 2.0 and the 2.5 are the same physical size as each other. Only the internal displacement is different.

[BipDBo]

:confused:

The first 818 prototype uses a 2.5l engine, more speciifcally, a 2006 WRX donor.

An 06-07 2.5l WRX donor is certainly on the list. The posutulation has been on whether or not the STi six speed will work. But the 2.5l in the STi (which is almost identical to the 2.5l in the later WRXs) will certainly work.

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

[prematureapex]

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

Just as a side note. The 2.5l WRX engine makes a good bit more than 3hp over the 2.0l. Pay that factory rating no mind. In fact, the HP curves for the stock 2.5l just about match an average off-the-self tune w/a turboback exhaust on a 2.0l WRX, until about 5k RPMs. Aka, until the upper RPM range, the stock 2.5l is as strong as a "stage II" 2.0l.

Modified to modified, while they both acheive about the same top end power (the small turbo is the limiting factor on both engines), the 2.5l is a monster in the midrange compared to the 2.0l.

Anyway, off topic sorry!

[DougR]

Shipping those cars across country is expensive. I'd like to help out by offering to allow Dave to leave the 818R here in Las Vegas to save some of those shipping costs. We also have several drivers here who can also help sort out the car on the Spring Mountain Motorsports track right away as well as the tracks that NASA uses when the 2013 season starts (AAA Speedway, Button Willow & Willow Springs).

[Mechie3]

I stand corrected. I had thought that the WRX kept its 2.0 liters through 2007, and that the 2.5 was reserved for the STi. It turns out that the 2.5 was offered in the WRX for those years, but with only a 3 hp jump from 227 to 230 hp. As discussed in another thread, though, sticking to the smaller displacement would be of benefit for the 818R to keep you in the "E modified" class. Plus, I'm sure that it will look at lot cooler for SEMA with twin turbo piping.

No. 2.0L is the max displacement for DM cars (un boosted I believe). Emod allows unlimited displacement if you meet the 1800lb requirement (plus an additional 50lb modified tub requirement).


The 2.5's made about the same hp, but more torque, and the boost was turned down from factory IIRC. The 2.0's had 14.5psi, the 2.5's had around 12psi.

I don't think full blown finished pics should be posted, but either teasers (ie, closeups of specific sections, lights 1/2 on type pics) or in process (guys working on a car, 1/2 finished chassis, etc) would be awesome to see!

You can always post a new thread saying "818 pics here, don't look if you don't want to see it".

[agepag]

Subscribed to this thread!

[David Hodgkins]

11950Did you guys notice this pic in Mad Dogs new FFR additions thread?

[RM1SepEx]

nope... dash install in 818R...

I NEED some new photos... you won't get any design complaints from me. If I expected to have my inputs heard I'd have to expect a payroll check with Dave's electronic signature on the front, showing electronic deposit!

[BipDBo]

11950Did you guys notice this pic in Mad Dogs new FFR additions thread?

Yep. That's one killer mustache.

[prematureapex]

The 2.5's made about the same hp, but more torque, and the boost was turned down from factory IIRC. The 2.0's had 14.5psi, the 2.5's had around 12psi.

That's not true.

Your average peak WHP was about 20 more on most dynos 2.5 vs. 2.0 (190 whp vs. about 170 whp, of course dyno-dependent on 180 vs. 160, 190 vs. 170, etc.). Needless to say, throughout the range, the 25l is kicking the 2.0ls butt as well.

Again, the 2.5l makes as much power as a stage II 2.0l, until you get into the upper RPMs.

It is a more powerful engine, despite the manufacturer's specs. Clearly it's underrated from the factory. Trap speeds reflect the added power as well.

This is Cobb's dyno, stock 2.5 vs. OTS stage II 2.0l:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/johnjanick/wrxstg2-vs-06wrx.gif

Stock 2.0l to stage 2 2.0l aren't even close, it gains signficant power all over the range:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/johnjanick/ae-stage2-dyno.jpg


C/N: You're lucky to have a 2.5l. :p

[Mechie3]

I meant on paper they were close and changing oem boost was how parity was (attempted to be) maintained. I certainly love the 2.5 Just bought an 02 WRX with a VF39. Wait....wait.....wait.......booost...oh, now I'm speeding because it took forever to hit boost.

Only thing I can tell from that pic is that guy has a moustache, they aren't reusing the stock gauge hood, and to remove the cluster requires you to pop the dash. Any word on if that's the roadster or R roll hoop?

[D2W]

Dave has the body changed from the last rendering shown (the one on the wall in the picture above), or would you be showing us what we already expect just in the flesh?

[David Hodgkins]

That's a roadster chassis.

:)

[David Hodgkins]

Dave has the body changed from the last rendering shown (the one on the wall in the picture above), or would you be showing us what we already expect just in the flesh?

I would say that from what I've seen, there are small details around the parting lines and headlights that I never saw mentioned in previous threads, and there are roll hoop differences on the 818R.

:)

[David Hodgkins]

I just received something in my email.

:D

[riptide motorsport]

David Hopkins "I did see some new tires and these are the sizes: 255/35 Z R18 and 225/40 Z R18."

Those are HUGE!!!!!!!!!

[David Hodgkins]

Here is a pic of the 818R under construction, with the majority of the body panels in place:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

Enjoy!

:)

[Benji]

I just received something in my email.

:D

SUCH a tease.

Well, I'm going anyway so I'm not fussed but obviously it would be nice to see.

[Benji]

Oh hello.

[Benji]

Just so we're clear, that's a traditional fibreglass body with gel coat made in their traditional way?

[David Hodgkins]

Just so we're clear, that's a traditional fibreglass body with gel coat made in their traditional way?

Yes.

[D2W]

No need to have doors on the 818R. That frame should be plenty stiff. With all the seperate body panels there is no parting lines to worry about, so I'm assuming the body is pretty nice as it sits?

[D2W]

Dave answer if you want or can, is the only difference between 818r and roadster the extra bracing in the cockpit?

[Xusia]

Wow. I'm very impressed by the looks. I can't wait for SEMA so we can see more! :D

[David Hodgkins]

Dave answer if you want or can, is the only difference between 818r and roadster the extra bracing in the cockpit?

I don't know unfortunately...

:)

[BipDBo]

Oh boy. Brace yourselves. S*******m's a comin'.

Essentially, we now have confirmation that nothing substantial has changed from the last rendering. I'm not saying that I don't like it. I was a fan of this body style when it first was shown on the rendering. When that rendering came out, a lot of people, though were not happy. Some said "I'm outta here!" while others worked on suggestions for improvement. Not even any of the minor suggested tweeks were made. There's going to be some more unhappy campers. It may be better to get it over with before SEMA.

I think it's a cool looking car. Not the coolest I've seen, but definately up there, especially for the under $20K category. I'm not here really for a HOF body style. I'm here for an affordable car that has great performance.

[thestigwins]

This is the roll cage that I imagined the R would have. Its looking pretty good,although could use a set of wheels. :cool:

I would like to say that comments like the comment above are the reason we have been left in the dark. Keep up the good work F5.

Grant

[D2W]

To be honest i'm kind of surprised the R doesn't have a full cage. That forward down brace looks to be right in your line of sight (sideways) and a great place to bang your head against. Definately helmet only motoring.

[Xusia]

The design phase has been over for some time, so negative comments and suggestions are not going to add any value to the forum or the project. Therefore I suggest the old adage apply: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything!

[PhyrraM]

To be honest i'm kind of surprised the R doesn't have a full cage. That forward down brace looks to be right in your line of sight (sideways) and a great place to bang your head against. Definately helmet only motoring.

As you would expect from an "R" version? At least that is how I always took it.

Car looks good, waiting for the street version to get really excited. REALLY hoping for more tech details and raw naked pictures.

A bit dissapointed with the size of the rolling stock and the performance hit that mayinduce on such a light car.

[GUNS]

I think it's looking great! I can't wait to see more.

[mhoward1]

To be honest i'm kind of surprised the R doesn't have a full cage. That forward down brace looks to be right in your line of sight (sideways) and a great place to bang your head against. Definately helmet only motoring.

If it sits like the challenge cars cage does, then no it's not in the line of sight you actually look through it pretty well. Also as far enough to the side that there is no real impact chance with harnesses on. If it's like The challenge car cage, then it really is a full cage with the front crossbeam just under the dash. This puts the string line or contact line above the helmet points On a roll over.

By the way. I am posting this by dictating to Siri, so please forgive any funky words that might pop up in this.

[Mechie3]

I hope we can go wider than 255 tires. I had 255 star specs on all four corners on my wrx. Im hoping we can convince a 295 it'd like to call the 818 home.

That picture is quite cool. I still like some or the modified front ends better, but the fender flares show up better now, especially the front one. Can't wait to see more!!!

[ehansen007]

Its looking pretty good,although could use a set of wheels. :cool:

Grant

Say what?

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/33Machine/8181.jpg

[mhoward1]

Just remember with tires there's diminishing returns in ratio to the wait. At a certain point the contact patch doesn't get any larger with a wider tire, it just changes shape. You go from a square contact patch to a more oblong side to side contact. 225 on a car this light should be plenty of time. Otherwise you may actually never get the tires up to temperature or have enough traction in one direction or another. It's like the Lotus Elise's tires or on a much lesser scale the Mazda Miata which seems to really like 225 or 235. The W RX or the STI are much heavier cars so they benefit from the wider rubber.

[ScottKoschwitz]

OK, after the dearth of FFR information, and keeping myself occupied mulling over a possible Miata turbo- or supercharged project, I'm starting to get excited about this again. I can't wait to see the pics from SEMA, and I hope FFR hosts an 818-centric winter open house so we can finally see this car in person.

I think it looks sharp, but I still can't shake the impression (even with the Challenge car there for scale) that it will be larger than I had hoped.

[anthonyb]

I definately agree....
The design phase has been over for some time, so negative comments and suggestions are not going to add any value to the forum or the project. Therefore I suggest the old adage apply: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything!

[wallace18]

I think it looks awesome!!! I can not wait to put down a deposit. I just hope the negative comments don't surface and ruin the excitement.

[anthonyb]

This is pretty exciting! My sons and I will have a field day with this one for sure!

[mhoward1]

I think Dave and Jim are well aware they cannot make everyone happy. I do think they have quite a success in their hand and I think that most will Appreciate the 818 for what it is.

[timmy318]

Not totally what I was expecting but none-the-less FFR has done it again and impressed me! Great job for the FFR team on getting this thing almost done! Can't wait to put the deposit down for this!

[Gary in NJ]

I'm digging the shape. I can't wait to see it with all of the details in place.

[RM1SepEx]

psyched, roadster design meets my goals, looks great!

Cash in hand

Donor parts 90% ready, everything is in hand... 2 weeks +/- to paint powder coat and assemble
(except LSD install, and wheels/tires, still mulling options)

timing almost perfect... I'll be ready early

I'm thinking 215 x 45 x 17 in front and 235 x 45 x 17 Direzzas in the back for max load about 500 lbs less than a NA or NB miata

[David Hodgkins]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

I like the fact that a high quality soft top is being engineered for availability at the launch. It looks like it will be about the same size as a C-Car, with a longer wheelbase.

I think it's going to be a monster in the corners!

:)

PS I too am waiting to see if I get the OK to release any more pics. As SOON as I get any more info, I'll pass it along!

[Dave Smith]

Allow me to briefly break my radio silence.. The development process on the body panels is ongoing and very challenging. Probably the largest challenge of the project as costing with paint vs. without paint is a huge deal. I like some of the on-line shape suggestions (like the vman front cuts) but there is a zero rating on that as a critical path item since it is easy to change (nose panel change) and there are too many other items that have to be completed first. When it comes to platform, Ive made it clear that variant body shapes and purposing is in the design spec and so it remains.

The panels are all seam-free quarter or smaller panels that CAN be made in gel coat if we have to, but a higher end process is being worked on, just not done. This isnt easy and I will not make stupid claims that end up years from completion.

The 818R and the street car differ in door panel inner liners, functional doors, cage/no cage, shocks, brakes, but mostly cage (which is a true race cage) and solo windscreen vs. full windshield with surround.

I was alone releasing the image as Ive seen most people cant extrapolate the shapes to the real-space car and details like paint, lighting, wheels, ride height, interior, engine, exhausts, etc ALL dramatically change the way a car looks and the one thing I've learned fully thru this process is that renderings and 1/4 scale models are virtually useless in determining the physical presence and feeling of the car in real space. We have paid a good amount of money to learn this lesson and even the diff between photos and real world 3d is hard to really quantify.

I am immensely proud of the design team, the partner companies, the tools we are using and the dedication to accomplishing the design goals. The chassis is impressive, the body (in person) is striking and dramatic as hell, the running gear and pricing are intact, the process still being developed, but in the end, the only thing that will determine our success or failure is whether people weigh our work and deem it worthy of their hard earned money. A tremendous amount of work and skill and experience and technology has been applied to the effort and we are still so far up the headwaters of this exciting new design.

I'm grateful for the interest and will make more updates concurrent with the SEMA show.

Dave Smith

[GUNS]

Thanks Dave and the team for the sneak peak and keeping us informed. I'm very happy with the design and will hopefully begin dismantling my donor soon. Looking forward to more pics.

[narkosys]

I like the looks of it so far and I think that this will make a great car for a first project. I look forward to seeing both the roadster version and a coupe (which would be my preferred way to go).

P

edit: hopefully FFr is already in contact with Canada customs so that Canadian versions can be shipped shortly afterwards.

[thane]

I feel like the qualities of the photograph of the unfinished car do a better job of conveying how the car will look in the flesh than have previous shots. Thanks for posting, and fwiw, the latest shot makes me like the looks of the car, even more.

thane

[Mechie3]

I was thinking narrower in front, wider in back for traction purposes. Competitive ESP WRX's run 315 width R-comps. My WRX would spin both inside wheels on corner exit with 245 tires. The elise and miata are light, but also don't have powerful motors.

And.......Dave breaks the silence!!! Just want to let you know, as an engineer, I understand a lot of the challenges your team is going through. I look forward to seeing more pics and progress. IMO, build pics are just as fun to see as final result pics.

[smoove7410]

Thanks for the information and picture. I think it is coming along rather nicely.

Will it be possible to mix and match? I like the R look with no windscreen, but may not need a substantial cage for just cruising the street. Would I be able to get the R visuals on a street setup?

[Benji]

Roll on SEMA!

[GS guy]

Looking Good! Great to see a fresh body out of the molds.

[Sultan]

Dave you remain a hero to me!!!!! It looks AWESOME!!

[metalmaker12]

I think it looks awesome!!! I can not wait to put down a deposit. I just hope the negative comments don't surface and ruin the excitement.

Looks great, my father and I are building one too, I can't wait to see it in person and buy a kit

[timmy318]

Looks great, my father and I are building one too, I can't wait to see it in person and buy a kit

Same here!!!! Thanks Dave for the update and now I guess I can calmly wait for SEMA to unveil it the way you want it to look!

[D2W]

Thanks for the information and picture. I think it is coming along rather nicely.

Will it be possible to mix and match? I like the R look with no windscreen, but may not need a substantial cage for just cruising the street. Would I be able to get the R visuals on a street setup?

I believe Dave said in the past that the windshield is removeable for track days.

[Mechie3]

Oh, and for a few laughs:

http://soshable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

or, a real pic of me.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/IMG_20100924_212117.jpg






(no, I don't usually carry cash. I was picking up my Fmod, paying cash, and wanted a funny/making fun of the "I'm suburban and white and trying to be a street tough gangster" pic. haha!)





but seriously.....deposit....here we come.

[Racebrewer]

More photos....... I can't wait to see it in other colors. The red is hot though.......

John

[Zodiac]

I think it looks even better in the pic than it did in the rendering. I can't wait for it to be shown at SEMA and be released. I still gotta find my donor though. 06-07 salvage auctions have not been kind lately :/

[timmy318]

hey david h, anyway possible of making a thread of only 818 pics at SEMA. Just have people who've taken pictures of the 818 and are at SEMA post them on their so everyone doesn't have to go searching for them. Just an idea being thrown out there!

[ursa5000]

Dave ,et al...I can't wait to mod the nose and rear with carbon fiber cutouts and masks, black- high gloss - torque thrust wheels, and custom headlights. FFR has designed a wonderful blank canvas so we can express our own design ideas.

Congrats to the entire development team!

Da Bear

[Rockraven]

Yeah, I'm a convert. I'm already thinking of how I want to do my 818. I'm thinking of matte blacking the lower front facia recesses and adding honeycomb inserts with some round driving lights. Nobody can say Dave and his team didn't do a terrific job with this car. I hope I can get one to Canada in the spring!

[Russ Thompson]

To Dave and the design team, great job guys, can't wait to see all the new stuff at SEMA!

[flynntuna]

Very exciting times for ffr, SEMA will be quite a milestone. Congrats!

[Stickshift84]

Well, this has just made my month!!! Can't wait for the end of next month!!! Keep up the great work.

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks for jumping in Dave... we weren't sure if we would see anything from you before SEMA :-( You and your team have done an impressive job, I'll be proud to both build and drive my 818

Can't wait to place my order, been adding capabilities since Mark and I met with you about a year ago to discuss this project. My donor work is at the point where colors are important... I think I'm forced to stay with simple colors for stuff like valve cover colors, brake calipers, suspension components etc... to avoid some wierd issues with body color conflicts

Can you give us any insights into colors, beyound the obvious black, white and red?

Thanks

Dan

[Jforse]

Dave and FFR team,

Thanks for getting that picture posted up. I really like the line of this car and am very anxiously awaiting its release.

Thanks!

-J

[shinn497]

Well Dave now that you posted teaser images please most MOAR!

You've not yet satiated my desire. That car is HOT.

[Rockraven]

Will the official name be revealed at SEMA as well? Maybe Tigershark... they eat CATFISH, don't they?

[wallace18]

Thanks to FFR for the photos. I am so pumped about this car. I have all my donor stuff ready now. I would be happy with gelcoat fiberglass. I understand the issues with the new body panels. Please keep us in the loop. This is what we all needed to see and it is great!

[FFR-ADV]

Thanks for the photo and information update Dave! Congratulations to Dave, Jim and the whole team at FFR. The hint of what was done with the dash looks great!
That Red Gel Coat is so Hot... I would be quite happy with that!

I am now driving my donor WRX (Acquired at the beginning of the month).

Cheers!

[0100]

I love the flared fender/quarters!!

[longislandwrx]

I'm still feeling it. Can't wait to see the official pictures. More excited than ever.


+1 on the monster cage. Seems like having that bar in your perif all the time might be frustrating. hopefully as mentioned you'll be able to peek right through. Safety first thought riiight?

[soul strife]

Wow, that car is damn sexy!

[Niburu]

alot of people are going to think this is an S2000 at first glance
which is not necessarily a bad thing
it looks like a production car and doesn't scream "kit car"

[Mechie3]

it looks like a production car and doesn't scream "kit car"

I see this as good and bad. If it looks like a lame production car, then it's bad. If it looks similar enough to a production car, but different enough that it makes people look twice and come over to talk about, that is good.

On the kit car side, if it looks like it was pieced together by joe blow in his garage (like so many short lived lambo kit cars) that is bad. If it looks exotic, yet still has an excelent fit and finish like a production car, that is good.

Overall, I think it could be more exotic, but they've balanced design with fit and finish quite well thus far.

[Rasmus]

I like the deviation of the 818R's roll hoop and cage from the design sketch to the prototype. Mostly because it's looks legal. The sketch's main hoop wouldn't pass any sanctioning body to my knowledge. The main hoop was too low and the hoops added to the top of the main hoop wouldn't cut it, rule-wise.

[timmy318]

dang...... This threads really taken off! Every time I look I see more people viewing the 818 section than the roadster or any other page........

[Mechie3]

I'm glad to see pics, but think we're all missing something big here. David Hodgkins hasn't posted since Dave Smith made an entrance into this thread. I fear he may be locked in a closet with no internet access or worse. We need to start a "Free David Hodgkins" thread now if we want more pics! ;)


On a more serious note. I have even more questions now, most related to intercompatibility of the roadster versus R. Can't wait till SEMA (or David posts more pics ;) )

[Doc_FFR]

Interested again.

EDIT: I wanted to add that the quality of this project seems to be excellent. I appreciate Dave's hard work making sure that the job is done right and done well. I followed the Smyth project for a long time and the end result is a car that looks like you made it in your garage. I can see myself driving this and people asking, "Who makes that car?".

[Vman7]

Thanks Dave H. and Dave S. for the updates :)

Great job Dave S., Jim and the FFR Team!:) Off to a really good start, looking forward to pics etc. after the SEMA show.

Looking forward to pictures of the car from all different views so I can start up again on some ideas for mod.s people can do themselves or maybe for future FFR design changes.

Keep up the great work Dave S., Jim and FFR ! :)
David

[David Hodgkins]

I'm glad to see pics, but think we're all missing something big here. David Hodgkins hasn't posted since Dave Smith made an entrance into this thread. I fear he may be locked in a closet with no internet access or worse. We need to start a "Free David Hodgkins" thread now if we want more pics! ;)


On a more serious note. I have even more questions now, most related to intercompatibility of the roadster versus R. Can't wait till SEMA (or David posts more pics ;) )

I'm still here! :D I spoke with Dave today and yes, more info will be released before SEMA but I don't have a timetable. I have more images but have not been given and OK to release any of them. What type of compatibility issues are you concerned with? I can maybe answer some questions about the chassis but I haven't seen any body pics of the street roadster yet so I don't have any visibility into body shape differences...

:)

[Mechie3]

Im on a phone but can type more later. Simply put, what 818r options can be mixed with roadster options, and which are automatically excluded ( like 818r with under hood liner or roadster with non full frame glass).

[Someday I Suppose]

Exciting stuff for sure, congrats to Dave, Jim, Jasper, and everyone who got the car to this stage, trying to get three chasis done for SEMA is huge. Really excited to see it come together, a few more weeks to go, then I think Jim is planning a trip to Mexico lol.

[David Hodgkins]

Oh my. I just got more email.

:)

[Rockraven]

Oh my. I just got more email.

:)


....AND???? :confused:

[David Hodgkins]

It has pictures.

:D

[timmy318]

It has pictures.

:D

Quit teasing us?!?!?!? We can't take it much longer!

[Rockraven]

It has pictures.

:D

pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

[David Hodgkins]

Whew, I'm feeling giddy with all this power. People hanging on my every post....

OK OK. Here ya go. The first image is a rendering of the front clip, as seen in the design software.
Don't worry this is the only blurry shot of the three I received AND the only one that is not of an actual 818:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11975&d=1348609034

:)

[Mechie3]

It has pictures.

:D

We can start a "lock up david hodgkins" thread too. ;)


Unless of course its just my computer acting up again. :D

Edit: you must've seen it coming. You posted pics just as I made my post.

[David Hodgkins]

This next one is the what the actual front clip looks like about to be mounted to the 818R. You can also see some of the additional frame structure in this shot:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

:)

[mentatbashar]

This looks very nice. It's good to finally see a real chassis instead of renderings. Please share more when you can. :cool:

[NicksPapaw]

HOLY COW !!!!!! I love me some car porn in the afternoon. :)

[Rockraven]

Awesome! From appearances, looks like it's going to be a relatively easy and quick car to put together. Not to mention lots of customization potential.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I'm diggin' it. I can feel this excitement welling up as I'm making analytical considerations of my budget and the use of the storage and build space I have.

[Rockraven]

David, I believe you mentioned three pictures???

[David Hodgkins]

Lots of good stuff to scrutinize in that shot. I like the dash! Looks like it could be carbon fiber. Looks like a really strong front hoop under it too. Does anyone know if those LCA's, spindles and rotors are doner parts?

:)

[prematureapex]

Does anyone know if those LCA's, spindles and rotors are doner parts?

:)

Yup.

[0100]

That frame looks so sexy!

[flynntuna]

Does any one recognize the head light? custom? OEM?

[bbjones121]

I hope they have projectors. Hard to tell.

[Rockraven]

Does any one recognize the head light? custom? OEM?

Some mentioned Camry, but I was thinking Mazda3. Not so sure now.

[David Hodgkins]

David, I believe you mentioned three pictures???

I did, didn't I?

:)

[Mechie3]

Why yes....yes you did. :)

Wondering what headlights they are too. If they aren't HID projectors, I'd like to research options for a proper retrofit.

[bbjones121]

Cruelty ;)

[David Hodgkins]

Oh wait, you must mean this full nekkid frame 818R shot I have here on my desktop...

:D

[Racebrewer]

Looks like the go-kart chassis in the back top right in the photo. This must be a newer chassis.

Uhhhhhh,,,,,,,,,,, other photo?

John

[David Hodgkins]

Since were are on a new page (see how I strung that out?) Here are the 3 shots I got a hold of today:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11975&d=1348609034

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

Hey, check THIS out!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11976&d=1348614814

:)

[Mechie3]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/23727572.jpg

[Mechie3]

I see a lot more round tubing than square. Nice.

It looks as though the 818R is 1 person only?

[Rockraven]

That cage is a work of engineering art. I almost want clear plexiglas body panels to show it off!

[thestigwins]

Wow!

[bbjones121]

Looks awesome for the R. What about the other versions? How in the world can you get that rigidity and have doors or passenger?

[GUNS]

I hope those racing seats will be an option.

[spaceywilly]

I spy a road going version in the background of the frame photo

[David Hodgkins]

Looks awesome for the R. What about the other versions? How in the world can you get that rigidity and have doors or passenger?

Look at the chassis in the background for the difference between an 818 and 818R

Normally there is only one person in a race car, and the doors are non-operational. In the 818R you will step over the door to get into the car, and there is no provision for a passenger. In my mind, if you wanted to build a street 818R you could just remove that bar and have a 2-seater...

:)

[David Hodgkins]

I hope those racing seats will be an option.

I'm guessing but those are maybe the standard seats for the 818R. Personally I've seen seats with stout helmet restraints that you'd want to run. I don't know if they are an add-on or not. Take a look at John George's setup:

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2012natsjohng_500.jpg

[PhyrraM]

Quick observations from the top of my head.

Chose to use the stock '06-'07 4 pot calipers on the "R".
Still looks like early to mid 2000 Camry lights. Could be Mazda 3...a quick google search will tell. I'll be doing that in a minute.
The orginal prototype frame looks to have a non-turbo Impreza wheel bolted to it to check fitment.
Frame (assuming "R" because of roll structure) looks very stiff, but a tad heavy (compared to some). Observation, not judgement.
It looks like much effort went in to front cover piece to make it functional, visually interesting, and releasable from a one piece mold (critical for the no paint gelcoat) all at the same time.
Battery tray is centered and low.
Aluminum racing radiator being installed in the "R" frame.
The CAD shot makes it look like they might be toying with the idea of an insert the accepts projectors as an option to the Camry lights.


Edit: 99% certain it's a 2005-2006 Camry SE headlight. That model ran from 2002-2006.

[PhyrraM]

Look at the chassis in the background for the difference between an 818 and 818R........

Is that the actual road going version or the first prototype chassis? Both?

[Mechie3]

Back to my compatibility questions, they were things related to mix and match such as:

If I want to buy an 818R frame but want street shocks, or no brake kit, or a passenger, or the extra body panels

or

If I want a roadster, but more side impact, but the better shocks, and the aero add ons, etc.

Just wondering what sort of things preclude certain options because they simply won't fit vs what options they won't group with one chassis or the other. Basically, I want a streetable 818R or (in a similar fashion) a hopped up roadster, and am curious as to what method is the best way to go, and which is easier to upgrade (or downgrade) to the other.

I also thought the background car was the original road going prototype.

[PhyrraM]

I'm guessing those things won't be decided until FFR gets past the beta build stage and is ready to introduce retail products.

[David Hodgkins]

Is that the actual road going version or the first prototype chassis? Both?

<Conjecture>
I thought the prototype chassis was an initial design mule and was destroyed. I'm thinking (guessing, pretty sure) the chassis in the background is one of the 2 street chassis going to SEMA.
</Conjecture>

:)

EDIT: Better to say, I don't know.

[Mechie3]

Agree FFR wouldn't have all the options nailed down, but some things like, working doors on the 818R is not possible. Well, maybe they would fit, but you'd still have to hop the frame. haha.

I was hoping the street version would end up with more side intrustion protection. Maybe it's in the doors?

I just right clicked saved all the pics and noticed they were named "project818spyphoto" 3,4, and 5. Where did 1 and 2 go? ;)

[David Hodgkins]

.../I just right clicked saved all the pics and noticed they were named "project818spyphoto" 3,4, and 5. Where did 1 and 2 go? ;)

Oh those? Those were just pics of two 818's doing donuts in the parking lot in front of FFR. You don't want to see those...

:D ;)

[Mechie3]

Oh those? Those were just pics of two 818's doing donuts in the parking lot in front of FFR. You don't want to see those...

:D ;)

Correct. We don't want to see those pics. We DO want to see those videos though. :D

[PhyrraM]

As an educated guess, I would say all of the differences (besides the frame itself) can be ordered piecemeal once the initial orders are fulfilled and FFR can get a few parts "on the shelf".

From the looks of the front nose piece it looks like the main body molds may even be the same pieces with the "R" version aero mods being mainly bolt-ons. The "R" doors could even be the same shells as the road car, but attach with rivets instead of hinges.

[Samiam1017]

From the looks of the front nose piece it looks like the main body molds may even be the same pieces with the "R" version aero mods being mainly bolt-ons. The "R" doors could even be the same shells as the road car, but attach with rivets instead of hinges.
I would definitely think that's the situation. Bodys are the same but bolt on "r" parts. Just look at the pic with the car up on jack stands Why would they put a body on with doors? ?$ why make two molds for the same car ! It's a money thing

[timmy318]

wow...... Amazing! Post some more if you can dave!!!!

[0100]

As an educated guess, I would say all of the differences (besides the frame itself) can be ordered piecemeal once the initial orders are fulfilled and FFR can get a few parts "on the shelf".



Yeah I would guess you can spec it pretty much any way you want it when you order it. If you order the R chassis without(unless it's removable) the petty bar, I don't see why you couldn't have a 2 seater R.

[0100]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

Do we have demensions body length, width, height, and WB?

We need pictures of someone (with his height) sitting in it?

Please please please!!!!!

Keep up the great work, the body looks really tight.

[Mechie3]

Looking closer I see the holes for the front abs sensors currently open. Wonder if they plan to make a cover for that.

[FFR-ADV]

All I can say about that race frame is WOW!!! That’s the real deal!!!

I hope the 818r will be available with a street windshield option and a cross brace delete so a passenger seat could be put in. I might not mind climbing in for all the additional protection & likely increase in chassis rigidity.

Thank you Dave(s) (Smith & Hodgkins) for giving us these updates. Thank you Jim and the entire FFR team! You all have much to be proud of.

Cheers!

[BipDBo]

What is that piece of body panel I see in the corner of the picture? Is it in the background on the road going 818, or is it closer to the camera, hanging over the 818R?
11978

[wallace18]

I think that is the test mule in the background.

[Mechie3]

I had assumed it was the hood for a different car temporarily set on top of that car.

[PhyrraM]

+1, it looks like a hood. Maybe even an 818 hood?

[jimgood]

I'd really like to know how much of a reduction in distortion that cross brace affords. Having that brace means that drivers wanting to do instructed DE events will have to cut it out and replace when they're ready to go racing. I know I will probably be in that position unless NASA let's me go straight to SuperComp school after being absent from racing and DE events since early 2008. That's not likely.

[VTX]

Looks real nice! Can't wait to see the finished product!

[Mechie3]

Having that brace means that drivers wanting to do instructed DE events will have to cut it out

That's was one of my questions too. Wonder if it can be made bolt in.

[Jacob McCrea]

Wonder if it can be made bolt in.

A 4x4/rock crawler company called Ballistic Fabrication makes some nice connecting lugs for roll cage tubing. They weld in. Installaton is tricky, in my experience, because they are very precise connectors and it is tough to deal with the amount of weld shrinkage which occurs when you generate the required heat to make a solid weld, as well as the pressure which I think I'll see when the chassis is fully "loaded." But, yes, there are relatively straightforward products out there to make round roll cage tubing removable.

[mentatbashar]

Oh those? Those were just pics of two 818's doing donuts in the parking lot in front of FFR. You don't want to see those...

:D ;)

You know the rules, pics or didn't happen! :rolleyes:

[gwader]

Are those custom head lights??

[fateo66]

Did anyone else get excited when they saw the multitude of adjustable suspension mounting points on the black chassis. Most points seem to have 2-3 possible adjustments. I hope they did the same for the steering rack!

[Xusia]

Are those custom head lights??

It has been speculated they are from a mid-2000's Camry SE, but we do not know for certain.

[PhyrraM]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/8027437321_8fe161fdb0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/8027437321/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/8027435446_05af8e3f1b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/8027435446/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8035/8027435392_0b55af77fd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/8027435392/)

Google at work. I, personally, am calling this "confirmed". Focus on the rear of the housing and the mounting arm, they are the same.

Many, many options on eBay...even if quality on some is dubious.

[Xusia]

I agree - that certainly looks correct to me. For me, I wouldn't call it confirmed until FFR says so. But that's me. EXCELLENT work on that, BTW. I was really impressed. :)

[Racebrewer]

Where's the order blank?

X 818R Chassis
X Street Body
X Removeable steering wheel so I can get out.....


Re Headlights,

They'll probably have to be DOT legal depending upon your state or province.

A lot of the aftermarket lighting is not DOT legal and, many times, is Cr*p. Note the capital C.

On the "bright side", was there a HID option from Toyota for cars that drive on the right hand side of the road?

John

[bbjones121]

If you modify your lights in any way they are not DOT legal. Who has ever been ticketed for that? Don't put purple HID lights in and you won't get noticed. I have extensive experience in retrofitting and flipping left hand HID shields. It isn't that bad if you have halogen projectors, there is a high chance that another HID specific projector will work.

[PhyrraM]

I'm certain that DOT certification is one of the reasons FFR chose an OEM assembly over something like the Hella projectors. I would guess cost and intended design cues are other factors.

I'm guessing that in order to maintain a 'single donor' concept either OEM or aftermarket (but still DOT) Toyota lights will be included in the box.

[Oppenheimer]

It is amazing how much nicer the body looks in these pics than in the previous renderings, etc. Just like Dave S has said, its a difficult mental transition to make. I like to think I have enough imagination to make that leap, but it turns out I only have enough to have realized that the real thing will look better than the renderings did, not enough to have visualized how good the real thing would actually look.

Plus these are still just pics (incomplete at that). This stuff always looks better in the flesh.

Can't wait to see more pics!

[FFR-ADV]

Regarding HID lights, I have found that if you put whiter lights like 4300K found in many OEM cars on the low beams, then you get the benefit of more light without undesirable attention. I put Philips Bulbs and Philips Ballasts in my daily driver (swaps out halogen bulb) 5 years ago and have enjoyed them. They cost about $130 delivered then and prices seem to be about the same. This is an easy upgrade. People won’t know what is supposed to be stock for this car anyway as they will be more interested in trying to figure “Who makes that HOT car.”

I could be wrong, but it looks like the fiberglass in the tray may need to be cut out to allow the bottom of the headlight to be flush with the lower lip. This appears to be what is shown in the CAD image. I won't mind letting FFRs nice FANUC CNC do all of the necessary cutouts.

Cheers!

[Mechie3]

I wasn't talking just putting HID bulbs in halogen projectors, but a true HID projector retrofit.

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/104-5th-6th-generation-2002-2006-2007-2011/294451-2002-camry-4cy-le-hid-headlight-retrofit.html

[Benji]

Were there ever any FACTORY xenons in these housings?

[PhyrraM]

Were there ever any FACTORY xenons in these housings?

Considering it's from a Camry and the SE trim that FFR chose was basically the sportiest model I would guess not. I, personally, have never seen any.

The SE trim lights have a blacked out background vs. the all chrome look of most of the other trims.

[Benji]

PROPER retrofit it is then! And please dear god none of that xenons-in-halgon-reflector bullcrap.

[David]

Sweet! Both Mary and I really like it... Dammit, not even done with my current project. :D

Nice job Jim, Dave and the FFR team!!

David

[FFR-ADV]

PROPER retrofit it is then! And please dear god none of that xenons-in-halgon-reflector bullcrap.

Each to their own as HID in halogen reflectors works great for me and beats halogen, putting a lot more light on the road right where I want it. To some PROPER can only mean mechanically steered while to others it means projection lenses. To others PROPER can only be a certified DOT lenses, not a modified part. To some PROPER can only mean DOT legal with the emisions, which means no changes to the ECU and the CAT gets left in the up-pipe. I prefer to put my money and time into drive train and handling performance and will be modifying the ECU and will have no CAT in the up-pipe (Subaru design error removed in later designs).

Please do not attack others for taking a different approach than you would! I will enjoy seeing what you come up with. Having many options is good!

You might want to look at the Camry's Lexus twin for potential HID housings, but they might not be interchangable. This might be a better subject for another thread though, as I would rather see more photos of the progress to SEMA in this thread.

[Benji]

This is a discussion for another thread but I'm sorry you are wrong. Don't take this as an attack, just go here and educate yourself first:

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?27-Informative-Articles

Then you'll realise why there is a 140 page thread entirely dedicated to examples of why we hate people who put xenons in halogen reflectors/projectors:

http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?37924-the-hid-fail-gallery

[jimgood]

I can't wrap my head around the articulation in the front suspension. I looks to me like there is no camber gain in compression. I can see that they retained the eccentric bolt in the top of the spindle, but that only controls static camber.

Edit: maybe there's a little bit of camber gain, but not as much as one would want with a UCA that short. I think it's the length of the strut replacement bracket thingy.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11988&d=1348744908

[Flamshackle]

There will definitely be some camber gain in this setup. Don't think you will need a lot as suspension compression will be minimal as will body roll. Can't imagine them making this a boat to drive. It will certainly be stiff and flat through the corners by the look of the design.

[VTX]

I did a true HID retrofit on one of my cars. It's not too terribly difficult to do to most factory reflector headlights. The reflector housings in the 818 look plenty deep enough to me.

I used these guys to buy my equipment: http://www.theretrofitsource.com/

I'm also going to agree with the idea that just putting HID bulbs in a reflector housing is a bad idea. You need the optics to properly project the light where you want it. Otherwise you are just scattering a lot of light and not getting the full benefit, not to mention blinding other drivers.

[Mad Dog]

Dave asked that I post a more detailed photo of the the headlamps. The upper fenders are not in this photograph and they surround the housing.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/project818spyphoto5.jpg

[BipDBo]

Dave asked that I post a more detailed photo of the the headlamps. The upper fenders are not in this photograph and they surround the housing.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/project818spyphoto5.jpg

Why would Dave ask that? Is there something we wants us to see? My reaction was, hey it's a Camry light with a smokey lens. Nothing to see here.

I like the pictures of the chassis and suspension. At this point, I wouldn't mind seeing what the rear of the car looks like either.

[Mechie3]

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/project818spyphoto5.jpg

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

What I noticed, was the headlights look more recess (fully installed) a few brackets added, and it looks like a few features on the bumper were punched out.

[PhyrraM]

Hey Dave, and Dave, and Dave......and Jim,

Don't mistake the fact that the lights have been I.D.ed as complaining about them.

We are ust so starved for details we are gonna talk about every drop of info released.

[Mechie3]

^^ What he said. I actually thingk they look good. Just trying to do my research ahead of time to figure out how/if I want to modify them.

[0100]

Yeah that is looking real good!

[Xusia]

... but I'm sorry you are wrong.

Uncool wording.


I'm also going to agree with the idea that just putting HID bulbs in a reflector housing is a bad idea. You need the optics to properly project the light where you want it. Otherwise you are just scattering a lot of light and not getting the full benefit, not to mention blinding other drivers.

Much better way to say it.

[ehansen007]

I'm guessing but those are maybe the standard seats for the 818R. Personally I've seen seats with stout helmet restraints that you'd want to run. I don't know if they are an add-on or not. Take a look at John George's setup:

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2012natsjohng_500.jpg

Those seats may be an option. FFR already sells kirkey seats as an option for the other cars. Regardless, I believe the stock seats from the WRX are supposed to fit (not sure about the 818R) but the particular seats are Kirkey Road Race inters and are available from Jeg's for like $265 and $185 for the cover.

[bbjones121]

+1 agree


I did a true HID retrofit on one of my cars. It's not too terribly difficult to do to most factory reflector headlights. The reflector housings in the 818 look plenty deep enough to me.

I used these guys to buy my equipment: http://www.theretrofitsource.com/

I'm also going to agree with the idea that just putting HID bulbs in a reflector housing is a bad idea. You need the optics to properly project the light where you want it. Otherwise you are just scattering a lot of light and not getting the full benefit, not to mention blinding other drivers.

[Oppenheimer]

The headlights look pretty good to me all fitted, and with the nose venting punched out its really starting to look aggressive.

Of course we are going to compare it to other cars, that is only natural. And while some in the past have mentioned, *gasp*, MR2 (the first of those being me, seeing an early mock-up), and more recently someone said S2000 (which is not such a bad thing), I'm starting to sense now more of a early Viper vibe.

I felt it when I saw the first side view in this thread, and now seeing it some more in the nose with the lights fitted. Perhaps the red color is aiding and abetting that feel, but its there.

I'm not saying it looks like a Viper, its not front-engined, just saying I'm picking up some of the Viper's aggressive overtones. I can feel the scalp warming...

[mhoward1]

Dave, Jim, and rest of the FFR guys,
Truthfully I am just not sure on the styling or the overall chassis design. I think the best way to come to a final decision is to let me race a 818R for the 2013 season, then make my decision on purchase after that. You can deliver a completed model to my house right after SEMA.

[HelluvaEngineer]

This next one is the what the actual front clip looks like about to be mounted to the 818R. You can also see some of the additional frame structure in this shot:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

:)


OK, I am either falling for the best joke or I have only been able to see one picture. :( Are there more pictures or just the one without the headlights?

[2KWIK4U]

Dave, Jim, and rest of the FFR guys,
Truthfully I am just not sure on the styling or the overall chassis design. I think the best way to come to a final decision is to let me race a 818R for the 2013 season, then make my decision on purchase after that. You can deliver a completed model to my house right after SEMA.

Wow that sure is nice of you;)

Danny

[WIS89]

Alright you all, I have ruined three keyboards drooling all over them!! Can we please post the final pictures so I can stop running out to replace my keyboards? :-o)

Dave, Mad Dog, Jim, and the rest of you all at FF, keep drinking that coffee and wworking your butts off, while working crazy hours to finish these cars!!

I cannot wait to see the final product! You guys simply rock!! I am sending a long-distance stoke to keep the energy up while you finish things up!!

I am stunned!

Regards,

Steve

[HelluvaEngineer]

That is even stranger. I don't see ANY pictures, but when I quote the link with out pictures, a picture shows up. What the heck? Now when I go back, I can see all three pictures.

[wallace18]

If you are going to dream. Dream big! LOL. This car for me is getting better with every picture. FFR you are doing a great job and I hope to be one of the first to put a deposit down. This is getting very exciting as we get closer to SEMA. Thanks for all the pics.

[Mechie3]

Can we please post the final pictures so I can stop running out to replace my keyboards? :-o)



Nah, they should save the final reveal for SEMA.


What they should do is a Christmas Advent style deal. You know, one pic per day until the day of the reveal. They don't need to be big revealing pics. Just random teasers to keep us all hooked. :D

[Xusia]

Haha! Like they NEED to do ANYTHING at this point. I think we are all hooked already! LOL :)

[jimgood]

OK, I am either falling for the best joke or I have only been able to see one picture. :( Are there more pictures or just the one without the headlights?
Make sure you are logged in. I had the same issue and looked up at the top and realized that I was not logged in.

[wooward]

I too have retrofit headlights. I did it for my 05 RSX-S. Not difficult but a pain time wise. I said I'll never do it again and just pay someone to do it, but I'll probably do it again for the 818... lol



I did a true HID retrofit on one of my cars. It's not too terribly difficult to do to most factory reflector headlights. The reflector housings in the 818 look plenty deep enough to me.

I used these guys to buy my equipment: http://www.theretrofitsource.com/

I'm also going to agree with the idea that just putting HID bulbs in a reflector housing is a bad idea. You need the optics to properly project the light where you want it. Otherwise you are just scattering a lot of light and not getting the full benefit, not to mention blinding other drivers.

[jimgood]

There will definitely be some camber gain in this setup. Don't think you will need a lot as suspension compression will be minimal as will body roll. Can't imagine them making this a boat to drive. It will certainly be stiff and flat through the corners by the look of the design.
I'm sure you're right. I forgot to account for the fact that this thing will have minimal body roll anyway. Plus, the suspension in the pic is at full droop. At ride height, that UCA will be angled upward. So, like I said, there will be some gain.

One other thing...it's drooping now and the tie rod is horizontal. At ride height, it will be angled upward, assuming the LCA will be horizontal. Does the angle of the UCA change the arc or keep it constant at the tie rod end? I.E. will there be bumpsteer with this set up or has it been reduced/eliminated by the geometry.

[timmy318]

Just thought I'd make it easier on other people instead of having to search for the images:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11974&d=1348609029

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/project818spyphoto5.jpg

[shim2]

Car looks really nice. Looking forward to the big reveal at sema.

[skullandbones]

I really like the design/engineering of the headlight system. It looks like it will be pretty much plug and play. I think FFR is applying "lessons learned" as they go forward on these project. This thing is going to be cool! WEK.

[BipDBo]

11990
It's nice to see it with the holes punched out. I wonder how those holes will be done with the paintless panels. Will they come pre-punched?

I wasn't sure that they had intended the holes on the far corners to be there, and now relieved to see them. I would have really hated if it had faux scoops like the Hyundai Veloster.

I wonder if those holes on either side of the radiator intake are intended to be directly ducted to the front disks. That would be sweet.

I'm also curious as to how large the relief opening in the hood will be and if it will be the only path for air frm the radiator. I say bigger is better in this case. How it will be treated; open, louvered, perforated panel?

[Mechie3]

I think some renderings showed it like the front of the elise or the GT40.

[Oppenheimer]

If the prefab panels do need to be punched, then they could simply make a black grill insert for these, which would hide the ground edges where it was punched.

[PhyrraM]

11990.......I'm also curious as to how large the relief opening in the hood will be and if it will be the only path for air frm the radiator. I say bigger is better in this case. How it will be treated; open, louvered, perforated panel?



http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

Not a full answer, but you can get an idea.

[PhyrraM]

I've just learned something from doing a restudy on most of the pics released over the last 18 months.

FFR needs a few Subaru based banners around the facility to even out the plethora of Ford, Koni, HP, Solidworks and others that currently adorn the place.

Who's with me!?


(Yes, I know that many of those are sponsers of various programs - but there is always room for more. Especially when you consider that the 818 has a real shot at being thier best seller for the next few years)

[shim2]

Yes they do.

[BipDBo]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11954&d=1348520260

Not a full answer, but you can get an idea.

It's hard to tell from that photo, or from renderings of the hood released months ago, how much of the depressions in the hood will be punched out. The relief vent should have just as much, or more free area as the intake. A louver, depending on the angle of its fins, has about 50% to 33% free area. For the type 65 in this picture, this isn't a big deal. Those hood vents on the type 65 have less functional value than aesthetic because most of the air that goes through the engine compartment is just going to go around the engine and down under the car regardless of the vents. With the 818, the radiator air should all go up, with none of it going under, so it's important that the hood openings are plenty sufficient to relieve all of the air coming in through the front opening.

[HelluvaEngineer]

Make sure you are logged in. I had the same issue and looked up at the top and realized that I was not logged in.


That was it. I logged in to say I could not see the pictures and then I saw them. I guess I was playing a joke on myself.

[Gary in NJ]

I like the fitment of the head lamp lenses in the bumper cover. They are well integrated and the fit is tight. And this is an early prototype!

[Vman7]

Well after seeing the front with all the punch outs, it looks like the 2 open areas on either side of the upper center rad opening could be used for brake ducts, which might have been FFR intention.

Already starting to brainstorm on some mod.s .....lol, I'll wait until more pictures with more views come out. Still would like to see what the rear really looks like.

So far looking very impressive, especially where the body panels come together, from what I can see so far, that had to be an engineering feat in itself to figure out all those nooks and crannies to work seamlessly together.

David