818 SEMA Update WITH PICS!

[shim2]

Thanks for the update Dave! IMO you should take as much time as you need until you're completely happy with the 818. I think it's beautiful right now and would be more than happy to have one in my garage. Whatever changes I'm sure it will be for the better I'm hoping one of those will be the addition of glass side windows! That would seal the deal for me no question.

[flynntuna]

It gives me flexability (read more time to save the $ ) to get everything ready to build.

[HelluvaEngineer]

Forgot to quote

[HelluvaEngineer]

why does everyone want a targa top? I hate the idea. Arent they heavier than a removable hard top? I thought the idea of the 818 was to be 818kg. Plus its uglier imo.

Am I wrong with my thinking? Edumacate me.

What are you thinking? 200lbs heavier? It is already so light. If I still lived in Texas I would got with the soft top. But where I drive a targa is a very nice option. My wife currently drives a Del Sol when she wants to drive through the twisties. It works out well.

[Kwizatz-haderah]

Thanks for the update Dave. I have been a FFR customer before and am looking forward to being a repeat customer. The 818s already looks amazing, but we welcome refinement. A lot of us are thinking of the "s" being a daily driver so creature comforts are a must (roll-up windows, etc.), trying out different headlamps and tail lights would also make a huge difference too. Most new high end cars are incorporating led lights into their designs and I'd love to see some on the 818. Looking forward to hearing about the reactions at SEMA.

Mirko

[flynntuna]

A targa top with a removable rear glass would be ideal, especially if the top folds, could fit behind the seats in a pocket on the firewall.

[FFR-ADV]

I have to chime in sometime here on all that's happened since around page 20......lol

So far from the pics I have seen, all I can say is WOW!!!! :)

I'll have to really read all the posts that Dave Smith wrote.

Getting excited about all the pictures after SEMA and starting to work with some mod.s again, mostly working with a hardtop/targa design, since we will have a solid base to work with.

David

Hi Vman,

Glad to see you are available to work with FFR on some Hardtop / Targa mods for the 818! I hope to see your efforts go from beautiful art to real parts (in my garage). What a great team!

Thank you Dave, Jim, Jesper and the rest of Factory Five 818 Development Team!

You have all pushed yourselves to the limit to get these wonderful 818R and 818S to SEMA. As much as the busy SEMA schedule allows, please enjoy your well deserved moments in the spotlight, and many follow on interviews. You have so much to be proud of! WELL DONE!!!

Cheers!

[ScottKoschwitz]

Thank you, Dave, for the update, and good luck at SEMA.

In the poll on the forum, I voted for development of the R first. It seems like it would allow for some further development of the 818 as a whole before you sell the S to the larger customer base.

As for the top for the S, I will repeat my suggestion from WAAAAY back to develop the S as a targa, like the Lotus Elise. That would allow for an easily stowable and very simple soft top, compared to a traditional convertible top with a frame and bows. In addition, it would make the S easily converted to a coupe with a bolt-on or latch-on hardtop.

Thanks again for the update. I can't wait for more information from SEMA.

[Vman7]

Thanks Dave for all the great updates over the last week. I am still trying to read everything in this thread.....lol

Well done everybody at FFR :)
Have a great time at SEMA!

[timmy318]

Well, as much as I like the 818-S I am willing to wait a while until you develop it to it's fullest potential! I was also hoping to have my 818 completed around the summer of 2013 :(..... Hopefully when you release it, it will have a targa top & some windows! Also, I agree with you on the 818-S. For some reason, something about it seems off..... I'll stare at it for another couple of days and then maybe I'll figure it out :p! AMAZING job on the car though!!!!! All of you guys at FFR should be awarded some type of award! Coolest guys ever maybe??? I pray that you can roll the 818-S out by March or so of 2013 but if you guys aren't satisfied with it I'm willing to wait(just not to long ;)).

[Vman7]

Hi Vman,

Glad to see you are available to work with FFR on some Hardtop / Targa mods for the 818! I hope to see your efforts go from beautiful art to real parts (in my garage). What a great team!

Hi ADV (don't know your first name), thanks for the compliment :)
I am not sure who Grant is, but I am sure between the both of us we can come up with something for 818s model. I have a few ideas already in my head.

Just need some really good straight on pictures of the side, front and read and a few good 3/4 pictures.

David

[NonProfit]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/image.php?u=2184&dateline=1339107846
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[timmy318]

Hi ADV (don't know your first name), thanks for the compliment :)
I am not sure who Grant is, but I am sure between the both of us we can come up with something for 818s model. I have a few ideas already in my head.

Just need some really good straight on pictures of the side, front and read and a few good 3/4 pictures.

David

Love all of your mods on the 818! Keep up the work man! Hopefully, someday some of those mods become reality!

[flynntuna]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/image.php?u=2184&dateline=1339107846
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hahahahaha love it

[Kwizatz-haderah]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/image.php?u=2184&dateline=1339107846
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That would be awesome

[djtrav]

As mentioned, you can stow a targa top in the car, unlike a full hard top. Which is nice when you have rapidly changing weather. You can pull of a targa top by yourself, not so much with a full hard top. I have never seen a targa top that is heavier that a full hard top, and I'm not sure how that's possible. More secure than a soft top, quieter than a soft top, more insulated than a soft top. Targa's tend to have better wind protection as well. Plus they just look better.

thanks, I will do more research, I always thought it weighed more, but convenience out weighs minimal performance loss sometimes anyways... I'd have to see a picture, I never liked convertibles... I always preferred coupes, but if it looks good, than it looks good!

[Erik W. Treves]

ok...well....I am in! Got the nod from the wife unit this weekend! and the chant begins....818...818....818....

[Gus]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/image.php?u=2184&dateline=1339107846
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+1.

[David]

ok...well....I am in! Got the nod from the wife unit this weekend! and the chant begins....818...818....818....

Nice Erik! Look forward to the build...

David

[David Hodgkins]

Erik, I too look forward to your build! Great to see so many of the veterans - pardon the pun - interested in doing an 818 build!

:)

[timmy318]

Erik, I too look forward to your build! Great to see so many of the veterans - pardon the pun - interested in doing an 818 build!

:)

Who can blame us? We've all got the Factory Five fever!!!!

[VD2021]

Who can blame us? We've all got the Factory Five fever!!!!

Yeah.

Its sort of crazy.........I'm still building my current Factory Five and have already set up a plan for my 818S donor...........:eek:

I'm thinking I'll grab a high mileage running donor, drive/wrench/upgrade in order to educate myself on the platform, then turn it into parts when I place my 818S order.

[timmy318]

Yeah.

Its sort of crazy.........I'm still building my current Factory Five and have already set up a plan for my 818S donor...........:eek:

I'm thinking I'll grab a high mileage running donor, drive/wrench/upgrade in order to educate myself on the platform, then turn it into parts when I place my 818S order.

Looks like you're building a GTM!!! Makes me jealous :p! Hopefully whenever we get our '33 "completely finished" and the 818 rollin' outa the garage my dad and I will build a GTM..... Though, I think he likes the Mark IV better :(

[narkosys]

I was in the GTM camp with Vidal but then I saw the 818 pics, especially the ones in the new gallery, and it took me away. I am still going to build the GTM but I am building the 818 first to get my feet wet.

Cannot wait until the 818S meets with Dave S' approval and can finally get shipped out. :D

P

[VD2021]

Looks like you're building a GTM!!! Makes me jealous :p! Hopefully whenever we get our '33 "completely finished" and the 818 rollin' outa the garage my dad and I will build a GTM..... Though, I think he likes the Mark IV better :(

I really like the 33HD. My first taste of the GTM was when I saw Keith's on Two Guys Garage and the black GTM on HorsePowerTV. After seeing Keith's in person, asking 1187 questions and going for a spirited ride I made my order.


I was in the GTM camp with Vidal but then I saw the 818 pics, especially the ones in the new gallery, and it took me away. I am still going to build the GTM but I am building the 818 first to get my feet wet.

Cannot wait until the 818S meets with Dave S' approval and can finally get shipped out. :D

P

If I were in your shoes I believe I would do the same. 818 then GTM.

[Martin]

Nice Erik! Look forward to the build...

David

Me too.

I liked the original design that came out, I really like the blue car, I really really like the red S car. Once my MK4 is finished I might start prodding my wife for an 818...

Martin

[mydream]

First congratulation needs to go to the F5 Team. What a great Job and both cars look awesome. I'm sure you where pushed to the max by your Boss. You guys did a fantastic job, well done!

Dave
You also deserve a big congratulation. You have created a great team, and an awesome buisness. If I could, I would have one of each of your cars. This one could be #2.

All the best guys
Thierry

[FFRSpec72]

It's going to be interesting to see what class this car would fall into in SCCA, since it has a tubular frame like the Challenge car that will restrict the class. Looks like a promising car, now all I have to do is make room next to my challenge car and alternate between them for racing. The up keep will be interesting to compare along with the reliability as that has been key with the challenge car.

It's also interesting that there is a cross support on the passenger's side (from font of cage to rear of cage).

[FFR-ADV]

Those studio pictures of the 818R on the Factory Five Website Gallery are stunning!

http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/

Looking forward to seeing the 818S pictures in the near future!:D

Cheers!

[MK4]

Factory five team, congratulation!!! Both cars are out of this world. They are real sharp and Will make head lines at SEMA for sûre. Dave congrats on keeping the team on target, you have delivered on all points (design,ingeneering, weight and price).

I see a 818 in m'y future up here in the great north for sure!!!!


Jean-François. Aka. Mk4

[Etos]

One problem I can see that does need addressing is the front fenders. If you look at studio gallery 1( http://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/project-818/ ) and look at pictures 11-13 you'll see the crease on the fender doesn't fit the headlight. Most likely they'll smooth out the crease over the headlight with a revision.

I'm sure there are other refinements to be made. That's why we should be patient :)

Also my feelings- while an addon hardtop would be financially a better choice for FFR, I feel a real true coupe would better fit the car. I personally am holding on for a true coupe and not an addon. While I will understand why you guys would go the addon route, I just never liked how an addon looked from Miatas and S2000's, just never looked right.

[skullandbones]

Also my feelings- while an addon hardtop would be financially a better choice for FFR, I feel a real true coupe would better fit the car. I personally am holding on for a true coupe and not an addon. While I will understand why you guys would go the addon route, I just never liked how an addon looked from Miatas and S2000's, just never looked right.

I'm sure there will be die hard camps that support one or the other but if the hardtop was done well, it can be an asset rather than just an add on. I was at a local car show yesterday and there was a very clean 57 T bird there. He didn't have the hardtop on it but it reminded me how good they look. Everybody knows it's not a coupe but it looks really goooood with the top on. That's what I would hope for a hardtop for the 818. You could appreciate it with the top or topless! The FFR 33 hot rod has already given FFR the experience to duplicate such a product. Even adding rollup window would be a possibility. I'd be surprised if Dave isn't thinking in that direction, IMO. WEK.

[timmy318]

I'm sure there will be die hard camps that support one or the other but if the hardtop was done well, it can be an asset rather than just an add on. I was at a local car show yesterday and there was a very clean 57 T bird there. He didn't have the hardtop on it but it reminded me how good they look. Everybody knows it's not a coupe but it looks really goooood with the top on. That's what I would hope for a hardtop for the 818. You could appreciate it with the top or topless! The FFR 33 hot rod has already given FFR the experience to duplicate such a product. Even adding rollup window would be a possibility. I'd be surprised if Dave isn't thinking in that direction, IMO. WEK.

I agree. We have the hard top for our '33 and it looks amazing! People don't think that it's removable until the next car show when we show up with the roadster windshield on :D! Also, I don't think that it would be cost-effective for FFR to offer a coupe right now at the beginning.... Maybe sometime down the road they will offer one but IMHO I think that it'd be easier & better for FFR $$$$ wise to offer a targa or some other type of hardtop for the 818. If they could truly streamline the hardtop with the body of the 818 I think that it would make most people happy. But, until they actually announce what will be rolling out of the factory all we can do is speculate...

[Etos]

I agree. We have the hard top for our '33 and it looks amazing! People don't think that it's removable until the next car show when we show up with the roadster windshield on :D! Also, I don't think that it would be cost-effective for FFR to offer a coupe right now at the beginning.... Maybe sometime down the road they will offer one but IMHO I think that it'd be easier & better for FFR $$$$ wise to offer a targa or some other type of hardtop for the 818. If they could truly streamline the hardtop with the body of the 818 I think that it would make most people happy. But, until they actually announce what will be rolling out of the factory all we can do is speculate...

While I don't doubt fitMENT will be fine, I just never seen a removable hard top that actually fit the car(outside of the 33 hot, but that's a completely different thing).

Some examples:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/stickydiljoe/The%20Chronicles/IMG_2271edit.jpg

http://www.epcivic.com/userpix/310_spoon_1.jpg

And there's at least another 5 kinds of hardtops for the s2000. While fitment is good for most of them, none of them look like they actually fit the car. I have the same feeling is gonna happen with the 818. In its current iteration it looks fine for a roadster but to just add a hardtop I don't think will come out looking good. The backend just won't fit well including the rear fenders. It'll look weird from having a cockpit like look to it. Just my feelings towards an addon hardtop. I'm not against them making one for guys who already will own roadsters or those who like to take it off for a nice days drive, I'd just be happy to have a flat out coupe.

[RM1SepEx]

I would plunk my 10K down tomorrow for the red car, as it is.

However I think that with a new engine cover panel you could make it a Targa, making a top even easier. I've also been daydreaming of a removeable hard top like one of my Miatas

[txjeepn]

While I don't doubt fitMENT will be fine, I just never seen a removable hard top that actually fit the car(outside of the 33 hot, but that's a completely different thing).

Some examples:
And there's at least another 5 kinds of hardtops for the s2000. While fitment is good for most of them, none of them look like they actually fit the car. I have the same feeling is gonna happen with the 818. In its current iteration it looks fine for a roadster but to just add a hardtop I don't think will come out looking good. The backend just won't fit well including the rear fenders. It'll look weird from having a cockpit like look to it. Just my feelings towards an addon hardtop. I'm not against them making one for guys who already will own roadsters or those who like to take it off for a nice days drive, I'd just be happy to have a flat out coupe.

A gree with that. I have had a S2000 and a MX-5 for over 6 years and I would never put a removable hard top on either because neither look good with one. They all look like an after thought.

[skullandbones]

If they redesigned the engine bay panel as Tim suggested and made it all one piece then it could be designed to look like it's actually part of the car and not a add on. There would have to be some accommodation for checking oil, etc but it would avoid that afterthought look like above. Love the "cobra", too, but not with a hardtop on it. I get your point, Etos. It's Halloween week: let's all cross our fingers! WEK.

[Vman7]

hmmm. I was going to post a couple of pics, but there is no toolbar with the add pictures, links etc.

Ok now that is weird, I deleted my cokies and refreshed the page and now they are back....lol

[Vman7]

...while working feverishly to make sure that the S model is done right. I am actually not completely happy with the S model. Make no mistake, I love it, but I don't know what is is and I'll use the SEMA show and feedback and a week of staring at it to figure it out. Maybe a remeovable hardtop. Maybe a really nice soft top (I've asked Dave Hodgkins if he can have Grant and Vman do some renderings). We WILL launch the car with a soft top or at least have one well developed before launch on the S. I still want to make some changes to the S model but there comes a point when the car is ready and looks good and performs well and you have to let it go. When I look at it I have to remind myself that it's a $10K kit! Looks better than any porsche boxer, BMW Z4, or car at 3x the price.

I have been going over the new photos of both the 818R and 818S. Need more of the 818S, but I figure there will be more after SEMA.

Hard to put a finger on something that just doesn't look right, mostly on the 818R, since there is so much going on with all the graphics etc.,

Lots of times it can be something small like a body seam in the wrong place, or a misplaced mirror or something. Color can make a difference, as in this case the dark blue doesn't show things as much like body seams, where on the red color it does.

Mostly have to walk around the car and see how everything flows. Also can be too much detail, like too many nooks and crannies in an area that sould have less.

One area that has kind of bugged me from the first time I saw the mock prototype was 2 lines that form a V on the rear fender, too much going on there.

Since I only had a good view of the R model, I used that one.
*green arrows
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http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12600&d=1351463204

Here it is smoothed out.
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http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12602&d=1351463344

Tweaking the front right now some on the Red front view pic.

Once there are some more pics or maybe even some cad renderings, then we can start tweaking some things.

David

[cyderus]

very little difference but i think i agree thats a needed change. looks a lot cleaner. nice work

[bstuke]

YOU GUYS HAVE ENERGIZED THE TEAM AT FACTORY FIVE! We are so inspired to show off the car, and then come home and re-double our efforts again to prove to the entire world that small, innovative American companies can do anything!

I for one am glad to be a part of it Dave..

[thestigwins]

In my opinion the door is what stands out as needing attention. It is just a little too plain and I really liked the idea of continuing the lines of the side vent into the door. It's something I plan to do when I order my kit. Everyone must remember these are kit cars and anything can be changed. I plan to mod the car in lots of areas and plan to paint the car regardless of what type of panels it comes with. Great work FFR.

[NonProfit]

I have had a S2000 and a MX-5 for over 6 years and I would never put a removable hard top on either because neither look good with one. They all look like an after thought.

I'll agree that many removable hardtops don't look quite right, but that doesn't mean they can't. Here are three beautiful examples.

'55-'57 T-Bird:
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'67 Vettes:
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'59 300SL:
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Shouldn't that be a gullwing?
Not if it's got a removable hardtop!

[Vman7]

With all the hardtop comments on whether it will work or look right, in this case I think it will work real well. Jim and the FFR team did a very good good of doing the rear deck as one piece all the way up to the doors, which would make it very easy to just change out the deck lid with a coupe/targa top with built in deck.

[ScottKoschwitz]

Vman7, I really like your change to the rear of the car. It makes the car look cleaner and also accentuates the nice curve of the rear quarter.

[Vman7]

Vman7, I really like your change to the rear of the car. It makes the car look cleaner and also accentuates the nice curve of the rear quarter.

Thanks scott :)

I will start a new thread once I have a few more updates, that way this thread can stay on subject.

Not sure but something just bugs me about the rear, I keep looking at it over and over and, just can't put my finger on it. I might see if I can adapt my Vantage rear some how......hehe.

[Draco-REX]

Out of curiosity, will the 818-R be available without the bar that blocks the passenger seat, so that one can be installed?

[Gus]

Vman7, I really like your change to the rear of the car. It makes the car look cleaner and also accentuates the nice curve of the rear quarter.
+1.

[metalmaker12]

I think a removable hard top is a good idea. To be a roadster or a hardtop is better than to just be one in my opinion. I also think that many look great. The s2000 and miata Fiber glass/ carbon hardtops look great in my opinion. And not to burst any hopes, I really doubt a coupe will be produced any time soon or ever. It will not be cost effective.
Remember the kit is 10k, they would need to redesign the whole rear of the car that will cost them money to produce, and without a huge demand and high roadster sales it will be very unlikely that they will build a separate body. I hope they do to make everyone happy.1260912606

Sorry to disagree with some of you, but I also like the body line near the rear of the car. I actually love the look of the car overall, I think FFR did the best job on it all, and I can not believe it is only 10k.
I do hope they put a center exhaust on the street version, much like the Lotus Exige. 1260712608

[Vman7]

In my opinion the door is what stands out as needing attention. It is just a little too plain and I really liked the idea of continuing the lines of the side vent into the door. It's something I plan to do when I order my kit. Everyone must remember these are kit cars and anything can be changed. I plan to mod the car in lots of areas and plan to paint the car regardless of what type of panels it comes with. Great work FFR.

Go here, then down to post #105 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?6415-New-818-Look-Possible-Future-Mod-s/page3

[flynntuna]

I like that much better. Even though the original is funtional and I could live with it, it does look like it came off a mustang .

[NonProfit]

This thread is currently at 87,356 views.

That was three days ago...now it's over 100K!

(Makes you feel kinda sorry for every other company who's trying to show off their new stuff at SEMA.)

[timmy318]

That was three days ago...now it's over 100K!

(Makes you feel kinda sorry for every other company who's trying to show off their new stuff at SEMA.)

Yea, just imagine..... Just sittin there at your both and watching all your potential customers flocking to view the 818 :D! Dave Smith and all the other guys at Factory Five have to be so proud of what they've accomplished so far and will accomplish in the near future! Not many car companies can say that their concept car has turned out to be their actual production car! FFR has really changed my world! Hopefully it will continue to change many other people's worlds.

[Highway Star]

I think I've figured out what I would do to help the rear of the car. First, I would accent out the trapezoidal recesses around each rear light cluster. Definitely black for the red car and either black or white for the blue car depending if it has other white accents.

I would also add the round FFR logo that you see on the hood/LF fender of the R and size it to fit in the rear of the S. Again, black for the red car and white for the blue color. The silver lettering on the RR of the S just doesn't look right. Maybe the emblem that you see on the hood of the red car scaled up and put on the RR.

[Movieman]

That was three days ago...now it's over 100K!

(Makes you feel kinda sorry for every other company who's trying to show off their new stuff at SEMA.)
There ARE other cars at SEMA?:D

[Oppenheimer]

With all the hardtop comments on whether it will work or look right, in this case I think it will work real well. Jim and the FFR team did a very good good of doing the rear deck as one piece all the way up to the doors, which would make it very easy to just change out the deck lid with a coupe/targa top with built in deck.

Yes! I've been preaching that for like a year now, a single body design, that the rear deck piece can have different versions, that support a Roadster, a Targa, or a coupe. I think it could be made to look terrific.


Not sure but something just bugs me about the rear, I keep looking at it over and over and, just can't put my finger on it. I might see if I can adapt my Vantage rear some how......hehe.

That would look sweet. I think part of the issue with the current 818 rear is its too flat. Addressing that would make it look a bit more OEM.

[flynntuna]

IMHO the rear looks good, only minor tweaks needed. I do think that the idea of multiple hatches for roadster,targa coupe , is outstanding.

[CallawayTurner]

I have been going over the new photos of both the 818R and 818S. Need more of the 818S, but I figure there will be more after SEMA.

Hard to put a finger on something that just doesn't look right, mostly on the 818R, since there is so much going on with all the graphics etc.,

Lots of times it can be something small like a body seam in the wrong place, or a misplaced mirror or something. Color can make a difference, as in this case the dark blue doesn't show things as much like body seams, where on the red color it does.

Mostly have to walk around the car and see how everything flows. Also can be too much detail, like too many nooks and crannies in an area that sould have less.

One area that has kind of bugged me from the first time I saw the mock prototype was 2 lines that form a V on the rear fender, too much going on there.

Since I only had a good view of the R model, I used that one.
*green arrows
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http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12600&d=1351463204

Here it is smoothed out.
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http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12602&d=1351463344

Tweaking the front right now some on the Red front view pic.

Once there are some more pics or maybe even some cad renderings, then we can start tweaking some things.

David

I actually like those two seams on the rear there. I think it adds a little extra to the look. I'm sure there's also the functional aspect to those seams in that they add some rigidity to the curve of the bumper so that it keeps them from bending and warping, therefore helping the body panels line up.

[bbjones121]

Looks great! A hardtop would be awesome as well as the double hoop rollbar. If the weather looks at all sketchy, put the hard top on. If clear leave it home.

[Dave Smith]

Guys, The team landed at SEMA and made it out of town a few flights before everything got shut down from the Hurricane. I am STUCK here as both my flights (I booked a second to hedge my bets) were cancelled and I'm trying to at least get out by Tuesday... Still, we have a great team in place and some great days ahead. I am just terribly down that I'm not there.

I do have a favor to ask: Please don't take this thread too far down the path of dissecting the body shape and suggesting changes. I am 100% happy with the 818R and really can't spend budget money going backwards. It is MUCH more important that we work on tooling issues (paint-free body), handling, performance, fit and finish, and pre-production tooling, training, packaging area set-up, welding jigs and tools, materials plan, bill of materials finalization and pricing confirms, validation runs in all areas, and a MILLION other details. The complexity of just one molded part or panel involves alot more than just changing the shape. Also IF we get the car in production and revenue is generated, and IF we are successful in designing the mold making process to result in rapid shape change ability (I'm investing ALOT of money in this key challenge), then we will be able to realize the chassis as a true platform, from which other cars can be launched (Coupe, eco-milage version, etc). It was EXTREMELY ambitious of the team to be tasked with introducing both a street and race version (remember these are functional PROTOTYPES), frankly it was unreasonable of me and I love them dearly for picking up their tools and following me where they didn't want to go.

Anyway, at this point there may be some small changes, but not to the body shape and not now. We have funded this project 100% from a very small cash flow after spending a huge amount of money to buy out my brother 10 months ago. Suggesting sweeping body changes are just not in the cards. Also, the fit of the prototype molds and panels are FANTASTIC.

Thanks for the great feedback and and the very professional constructive comments. please try to keep in mind that it's a $10K kit and there are real world limitations to what these guys can get done... limitations that have been SMASHED with a tremendous amount of hard work, real innovation, outside the box thinking, and passion that is revealed in the work itself.

I read someone refer to this car as a "soul-less CAD designed car" (as opposed to the dangerous, hacked-up and comically engineered POS the guy was in love with). The truth is that I am asking you for your continued kindness because I love the people who worked on this. You guys, this isn't about customer and company. We are all too close to each other for that. YOU GUYS have energized the team like I've never seen them before. THIS forum is becoming a real community and it is PART of the design in the truest sense. Sure there is no doubt that freedom of expression is the right of the customer and the responsibility of the company to address and report to as the customer IS the boss,.. but here there is more. There is love. I love the community who helped with feedback and ideas, I love the partners like Jeremy from Solidworks, Carl from Carls Collision, Tim from Grassroots Motorsports, Adam from Sherwin Williams, Tom from Hewlett Packard, Jim from KONI, Dustin from Wilwood, Stan from TOYO tires, and so many others who helped us get to here. I love this amazing car and I love this country that enables regular people to reach for such lofty heights. I love this car in a way that is very personal and so I'm just asking to remember that, far from selling a widget, this car is a personal and significant representation of the work of passionate and hard-working hands who collectively LOVE what they do and place in their work, more than a paycheck.

I'm hoping to get to SEMA by Tuesday am and am heartsick to not be there when the lights come on and the smiles spread at the sight of this amazing new creation! Thanks for everything.

[Zodiac]

I and I am sure many others think the car is fantastic how it is and don't need any real changes to the body. And anyone who thinks it's soul less well this car just isnt for them. I can't wait myself as I already got my donor I am working on. I don't doubt F5s abilities and with all I have seen I feel it's really coming together. Hope you can get to SEMA sooner than later. I'll be in line once the 818S is available ;)

[Sultan]

Dave you always amaze me.

[timmy318]

Dave you always amaze me.

Yes, with his ability to never sleep :p

[Xusia]

I think I've figured out what I would do to help the rear of the car. First, I would accent out the trapezoidal recesses around each rear light cluster. Definitely black for the red car and either black or white for the blue car depending if it has other white accents.

I would also add the round FFR logo that you see on the hood/LF fender of the R and size it to fit in the rear of the S. Again, black for the red car and white for the blue color. The silver lettering on the RR of the S just doesn't look right. Maybe the emblem that you see on the hood of the red car scaled up and put on the RR.

Options to suite individual preferences would be welcomed by everyone, I'm sure. I for one like the lack of accents (less if more to me; simple elegance), and the silver lettering on the rear (sans logo).


Also IF we get the car in production and revenue is generated, and IF we are successful in designing the mold making process to result in rapid shape change ability...

Dave, this car is gonna sell like hotcakes (as they say)! The price to performance ratio is simply on a level by itself. It will appeal to almost everyone who's wanted a super hot looking, high performance exotic sports car but can't afford one, as well as almost everyone who's ever wanted to build their own car but held back by price, build complexity, etc.

This is a landmark that allows virtually anyone to "get in the game." It will sell, and sell well. I imagine your biggest problem in about a year will be how to meet demand! :)

[anthonyb]

Options to suite individual preferences would be welcomed by everyone, I'm sure. I for one like the lack of accents (less if more to me; simple elegance), and the silver lettering on the rear (sans logo).



Dave, this car is gonna sell like hotcakes (as they say)! The price to performance ratio is simply on a level by itself. It will appeal to almost everyone who's wanted a super hot looking, high performance exotic sports car but can't afford one, as well as almost everyone who's ever wanted to build their own car but held back by price, build complexity, etc.

This is a landmark that allows virtually anyone to "get in the game." It will sell, and sell well. I imagine your biggest problem in about a year will be how to meet demand! :)

All I can say is, "anyone that had a gripe or complaint...Meet Xusia: Well said, Sir.;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Can the 818S accomodate harnesses? I'd likely put in the stock seatbelts to pass inspection, then put in some 5 pointers for autocross/track.

Craig,
We don't have to go through equipment inspections in Indiana; only VIN verification. Harnesses can be installed from the get go.

Jeff

[longislandwrx]

I was at Lime Rock Saturday and was thinking to myself, this time next year there's a chance I might be here in an 818! Would give the guy in the 2 Eleven a run for his money.


Love the new shots. It motivated me last night (after hurricane preperations) to start getting the garage tidied and laid out properly.


Everyone on the East Coast stay safe tonight. Should be a wild ride.

[Dave Smith]

I'm at work and Denise called and they just lost power at home in Rhode Island. We are good for now and working probably til the wind gets ugly around noon. Prayers for all the east coast families and people in the storm path. I surfed last night and after living and surfing in New England for 17 years there was a distinctly different "push" and energy to the waves. I'm stuck trying to get to SEMA maybe tomorrow, maybe Wednesday, but in the pit of my stomach I have a very bad feeling about this storm.. Be safe everyone on the east coast!

Also, I hope I dont dissuade anyone from making changes to their 818 when they ship, since the fun of building a car is putting your own changes to the thing, I just need to be hnest and clear about our development budget and timelines that would enable or not major or minor changes to the shape at this present time.

[WIS89]

Out of curiosity, will the 818-R be available without the bar that blocks the passenger seat, so that one can be installed?

Draco-

I doubt if it will for racing purposes. However, you can easily cut the bar top and bottom, and make a slip fit, and locking mechanism for the bar when racing that should pass race specs, and then remove and install a seat for you passenger. At least something to consider. I am sure others will weigh in...

Regards,

Steve

[metalmaker12]

Dave, you hit it on the head, and as a person who works in a high production shop, I know little changes cost a lot of time and money which are not cost effective until large revenue is made on the current product. I love the prototypes and hope to see them shipping in the next 2-4 months. I love what you have all done at FFR.

[Stickshift84]

Thank you for your great words Dave. I love the shape of the car is it sits!!! I will be waiting as soon as the "buy it now" button becomes a reality and I am awaiting all of the news that is to come from SEMA. I however am also in Rhode Island and fortunately have power for now. I can only hope that I will have power when the full reveal occurs... Dave I hope you the best getting to SEMA; I can't imagine what it must be like for you to not be there.

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

Dave,

Your honesty and your candor earned my respect years ago! Thank you for continuing to prove to me that you really are worthy of that respect.

There are always a few people that want to throw darts. For some unknown reason (probably even unknown to them) they resent other people's success. They always try to find something they don't like and then they have to advertise it. If someone doesn't like the shape of the 818, they won't buy it. 99% of the people who are viewing and responding to this forum really REALLY like (ok love) the 818. My wife and I had a discussion about it this morning (in the bathroom of all places). She asked me WHEN I was going to buy that new car (I showed her the additional pictures of the 818-S last night). She said, I know you will but I'm just wondering when. I told her it would be at least a year. We then had a serious discussion about a number of things I need to do around here before I can get it. For instance, since my work space is seriously crammed there isn't a place to put it.

Keep up the great work! I am looking forward to another Factory Five project!

[GS guy]

Love the cars, and chomping at the bit to see the "reveal" shots from SEMA.
Dave Smith is right on the mark with this car, I think it's going to hit the industry like a sledgehammer. Frankly, is has no real competition as a new, assemble it yourself performance vehicle anywhere near this price point.

I am curious about how the rear engine cover on the 818R is able to be easily removed considering the angle-braces coming off the back of the roll bar. I see the carbon fiber trim covers from the studio shots surrounding the brace penetration points - but can't see how this functions during R&R of the cover? Anyone have any ideas?

[Mad Dog]

Here are some more photos of the 818R and S that are on our website right now. There are some more images, but I thought that these were some of the best.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/818sandr.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project-818-10.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project-818-20.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project-818-30.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project-818-40.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project818-50.jpg

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/project-818-60.jpg

[Mechie3]

I'm seriously torn between the S and R. Argh!

Dave, How fast is that GTM? Fast enough to outrun the storm and make it to SEMA? ;) Soulless CAD? Meh. I always see that argument when someone is definding a decrepit piece of crap. "Soul" makes up for all of the crap, at least in their mind. I had a roommate who said all new cars lacked soul. The Porsche 911 had sould though because it's engine stuck out so far behind. Yeah....that makes sense.

Cash Flow: This is why I think you should launch the R first. Even if you don't sell a lot of these in the grand scheme of things, you could probably sell a handful quickly and start to bring in some cash while you work on the 818S.

Re: Indiana VIN Check. Interesting. I thought the police officer had to come inspect lots of things, not just the VIN. Nice to know.

[michael everson]

Wow Dave. That S is just killer looking. I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for a car like this. As much as I like building the Roadsters and Coupes, Im just not that into the old cars. This will fill that void for me perfectly.
Mike

[clintavo]

Wow Dave. That S is just killer looking. I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for a car like this. As much as I like building the Roadsters and Coupes, Im just not that into the old cars. This will fill that void for me perfectly.
Mike

I'm in the very same boat, and plan on having a years or decades long love affair with this car. I keep telling the wife it'll be the fastest car I ever own, and will have a place in the garage while others come and go.

[Gary in NJ]

Dave = Respect

[Kalstar]

Dave = Respect

Dave do tell us (or anyone at F5R) is it only the Impreza or will other Suburu's work as a donor. Not sure if this was ever answered (correct me if I'm wrong).

[James L.]

Dave,

I remember seeing prototype images of the GTM on your company's site several years ago and just being in awe. Then I checked back in on the site sometime later and hearing about the 33 hot rod (super stoked about that at the time). You and your team might be taking baby steps everyday but its adding up to a pretty epic achievement in the capabilities of FFR. Your team and your own personal vision of where FFR is and where it will be in the future will be something to watch out for.

Hats off to you and the whole FFR team for taking the next step.

James

[Dave Smith]

You guys are very kind.

The imprezza (stock and wrx models) are the donor cars. Frankly I think the car will be huge fun with a stock boxer 165 hp impreza engine (and CRAZY inexpensive to build as I've seen Imprezas-non WRX cars for hundreds of dollars only). Still, Tim Suddard, Editor at Grassroots Motorsports Magazine drove the 818 chassis with the 265 hp WRX engine and he came back literally speechless at the power delivery and all-out performance of the car (to be fair he was driving sans body at 1510 lbs on scales!).

Still, I think the confusion came from us putting the turbo engine from the legacy in the rolling chassis. I asked the guys to do that because we originally built the rolling chassis with a stock 165 hp impreza engine and it looked lonely in the rolling chassis. I think there are plumbing issues with non-impreza or non-wrx donors, but I wanted the "what the heck" response at SEMA with that engine.... Jim and the boys are working on the EXACT donor parts list but I do know they updated the list last week before leaving for Vegas.

I think we will begin accepting deposits on the car as soon as today late or tomorrow. There will be a TON of conditions since we don't want to slow down the guys and perhaps can funnel questions thru this forum as a possible solution to the waves of information requests that will bury the engineering team. This thread has sorta become the latest info node, but a formal update sent directly to those with orders on the books perhaps every 2-3 weeks is probably a good idea. I'm working on this right now.

[bstuke]

but a formal update sent directly to those with orders on the books perhaps every 2-3 weeks is probably a good idea. I'm working on this right now.

You already have orders on the books?:rolleyes:

I think this is a great idea. Save Jason a lot of time.

[Turboguy]

Also, I hope I dont dissuade anyone from making changes to their 818 when they ship, since the fun of building a car is putting your own changes to the thing, I just need to be hnest and clear about our development budget and timelines that would enable or not major or minor changes to the shape at this present time.

Guys- a lot of the changes people are suggesting here -from changes to the bumper looks to where the exhaust exits and removing the interior brace on the "R" that goes through the passenger area- these can ALL be accomplished on your own when you build YOUR car. They are not that complicated, and between local resources and help here on the forums are within the grasp of 95% of the people who will build these cars.


With this car being such a dramatic departure from FFR's past projects it is attracting a whole new customer base for whom this will be their first component car project, so they not be aware of just how "custom" each build can be. Those of us who have built roadsters or other FFRs over the years have all seen some pretty incredible builds & customization out there that the new FFR generation has not been exposed to yet.


Dave & Company have a history of giving you an incredible package to start with. The sky really is the limit with these things.

[Dave Smith]

Sorry for the confusion, what I was referring to was that IF we accept deposits/orders the big fear is that those customers will be (understandably) on the phone with us alot while we are working on answers to the likely questions in the final stage of development. I have no orders that I have accepted to date.

Ithink a reasonable solution IF we take orders is to provide to those people who have orders, a periodic update so that they can know where we are in pre-production and not have to call in.

[Emefef]

With this car being such a dramatic departure from FFR's past projects it is attracting a whole new customer base for whom this will be their first component car project, so they not be aware of just how "custom" each build can be. Those of us who have built roadsters or other FFRs over the years have all seen some pretty incredible builds & customization out there that the new FFR generation has not been exposed to yet.


YES! I'm excited to be part of the whole new customer base and the next FFR generation. I've spent a lot of time going through some of the build threads, and seen lots of time and money spent on the things that I'm least interested in spending time and money on (mostly body work). I'm looking forward to assembly, and minor problem solving and customization. I love what I see.

[VD2021]

Wow Dave. That S is just killer looking. I feel like I have been waiting my whole life for a car like this. As much as I like building the Roadsters and Coupes, Im just not that into the old cars. This will fill that void for me perfectly.
Mike

I too think the 33HD, the Roadster and Coupe are nice, but just not a fit for me. This is why I am building a GTM.

The 818S timing will likely be optimal for me. Great job.

[WIS89]

Hey Dave-

Since you are playing hooky from SEMA (very sorry by the way!), how about going ahead and showing the rest of us what the folks at SEMA are seeing? I could use a few cool pics of the S and R to "make my day!"

Awesome job, and you and the team should be over the top with pride (and exhaustion), from the amazing work you have done!! Just STUNNING!! I hope the buzz at SEMA is nuts, and people are literally climbing over each other to see your booth!!

I hope you get to Vegas soon to share in the excitement, but might be willing to spill the beans a bit... Again-- well done!!

Regards,

Steve

[Bkafe]

Sorry for the confusion, what I was referring to was that IF we accept deposits/orders the big fear is that those customers will be (understandably) on the phone with us alot while we are working on answers to the likely questions in the final stage of development. I have no orders that I have accepted to date.

Ithink a reasonable solution IF we take orders is to provide to those people who have orders, a periodic update so that they can know where we are in pre-production and not have to call in.

Dave,

If Factory Five decides to starts to accept deposits/orders, will this be via the Factory Five website?

Thanks Dave...

Brian

[Mad Dog]

I'm working on the website today adding some additional photo galleries for you guys. I can tell you that if we go forward with reservations/orders, it will likely be 100% through the website only to keep things orderly.

[NonProfit]

I do have a favor to ask: Please don't take this thread too far down the path of dissecting the body shape and suggesting changes. I am 100% happy with the 818R and really can't spend budget money going backwards. It is MUCH more important that we work on tooling issues (paint-free body), handling, performance, fit and finish, and pre-production tooling, training, packaging area set-up, welding jigs and tools, materials plan, bill of materials finalization and pricing confirms, validation runs in all areas, and a MILLION other details.

Hi Dave, previously you stated you felt the R was spot on, but still wanted to tweak the S. That's probably why lots of folks threw in their .02. Visual design is particularly difficult because everyone has an opinion. But when you get into tooling or welding jigs or validation runs, most of us loose interest (which is a good thing because very few possess the required insight.) We're all very interested in this project and it's only natural for folks (myself included) to want to share what they believe is best.

However, if anything remaining for the S could benefit from crowd sourcing, please ask.

[gwader]

Ok this is just weird. How is it that DS is posting on this forum. WTF is wrong with the rest of the auto world leaders. It must be the difference between auto geeks owning a company. Thanks for the updates, feelings, interest, David.

Weird.......

[NonProfit]

WTF is wrong with the rest of the auto world leaders.

That's the difference between an owner who's a car guy and an owner who's an investment banker.

[Mechie3]

I think we will begin accepting deposits on the car as soon as today late or tomorrow. There will be a TON of conditions since we don't want to slow down the guys

Take my money! I assume it would be a deposit only and we wouldn't be tied down to R vs S chassis? Either way, I want in, S or R, it just depends on a few answers to questions you should be answering at SEMA.


That's the difference between an owner who's a car guy and an owner who's an investment banker.

Pretty much. FFR doesn't sell hundreds of thousands of cars or employ tens of thousands of people. They're enthusiasts that happen to have taken their hobby to the next level.

GM, Ford, etc, are so much larger than FFR and the CEO's of those companies are more concerned with finances of their corporations. They let marketing and engineering do the rest.

[Xusia]

Take my money! I assume it would be a deposit only and we wouldn't be tied down to R vs S chassis? Either way, I want in, S or R, it just depends on a few answers to questions you should be answering at SEMA.

Dude! BEST post of the day! Literally caused to laugh out loud... :)

[skullandbones]

Hi Dave, previously you stated you felt the R was spot on, but still wanted to tweak the S. That's probably why lots of folks threw in their .02. Visual design is particularly difficult because everyone has an opinion. But when you get into tooling or welding jigs or validation runs, most of us loose interest (which is a good thing because very few possess the required insight.) We're all very interested in this project and it's only natural for folks (myself included) to want to share what they believe is best.

However, if anything remaining for the S could benefit from crowd sourcing, please ask.

Maybe because I was in the process improvement environment, I would be one of those who would love to hear about the behind the scene process as they develop. I know some of the widget projects we did, bored me but I could spend all day talking with you about those processes and then go out to the 818 area and drool for a while and then talk some more. I hope you expound upon the processes on some platform at a later date so we can get a flavor for how it rolled out. Dave would probably have to say, "go home Bill, the tour is over"! Oh well. BTW, that's one of the three reasons I purchased a roadster: there was the crazy enthusiasum, the beautiful chassis, and your approach to quality development. I figured this company is only going to get better. WEK.

[flynntuna]

I'm working on the website today adding some additional photo galleries for you guys. I can tell you that if we go forward with reservations/orders, it will likely be 100% through the website only to keep things orderly.

Mad Dog your the man!

[bbjones121]

Is the exit vent for radiator large enough so the hood doesnt bulge out at speed?

[Mad Dog]

Dave has decided to begin a modest process of pre-orders, similar to what Rodger Penske did with the Smart Car. $99 reserves your production place. Here's the link to be one of the first people to order an 818 (http://www.factoryfive.com/order-a-kit/818-order-form/).

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/DSC_9190.jpg

Note: The Factory Five crew at SEMA is setting up today and UNAWARE of the pre-order forms being released today. If you ask them before tomorrow, they will look at you like you have two heads.

[shim2]

Why does it list soft top as an option? I was under the impression that it was included in the kit price.

[Dave Smith]

I love that this forum was born when the 818 design contest was introduced and launched. I asked Mad Dog to throw up a pre-order form that will accomplish a few things. It lets guys order their car and get in a cue so that when we are ready to ship, we have orders ready to build em. It also allows us to get an idea on the purchasing/inventory side. I think that no matter what the order volume, I've learned enough over 15+ years of leading this company that the production start-up will be slow and steady and it would be fantasy to think we would be at more than perhaps one chassis a week for the first 3-6 months. So much depends on the work that is done on the track and on the street between now and launch date. Also I'm considering an entirely new approach to the age-old FFR Assembly Manual in the form of You Tube instructional section shorts 2-4 minutes.

So IF you want to sign on for this madness, I can promise you we will do our best to bring accurate production dates and qualified/tested product to the effort!

Nonprofit: Also, I have to apologize about the design requests. I Ddid clearly indicate that I wasnt 100% happy with the S model yet. Intelligent people would naturally begin to lend a hand and I am appreciative of that. I guess if I was completely direct, I would love it if Vman or one of you other talented guys helped with a removable hardtop and concept lines for a soft top (even a soft top can vary ie. Porsche Boxster S unit is weird/cool). We will publish 2 all-new galleries of images (818R and 818S versions) and you guys can probably use an image from there.

Re: Soft Top. The best soft tops on the market are made by Dave Draper at Rod Tops. He has already been ID'd as the guy who will make the soft top for the 818S. His tops are very weather-proof, tight fitting, and can even be used with AC and heating for sure. Dave's Hot Rod soft tops cost north of $3,000! There would be no way to satisfy the design goals of a $10K kit with a $15K cost to complete, and include a BOM cost of $3K for one peice. The soft top would HAVE to be an option, OR we would have to engineer an inexpensive version that would not seal sufficiently to satisfy the drivability requirements. Hope that explains the puzzle.

The soft top would HAVE to launch as an option.

Going home to hunker down for Hurricane Sandy!! Dave Smith

[narkosys]

I like the idea of the YouTube videos. I think they would be a great compliment to the manual. I still prefer the dead tree version as I can take my time and read it as well as make notes in the margins. I also like how you manage to temper our fanboyisms with logic and common sense when it will come to delivery of this highly anticipated vehicle.

P

[Erik W. Treves]

Pre-ordered mine :D

Let the chant begin..... 818 818 818 818 818 818------ S that is :D

It will infused with some VeryCoolParts.com items without a doubt!

Maddog, give me a shout if I screwed up the form.

Hard top or soft top would be great! I had already decided if it wasn't included I would be making my own hard top.

[Mechie3]

I placed my pre-order. I selected "S" for the time being, but I assume I can change that to R later?

EDIT: Youtube is great, but I'd like at least important stuff to be in print (or PDF rather). I don't hear well and can't understand a lot of movies and youtube videos without captions.

[timmy318]

I love that this forum was born when the 818 design contest was introduced and launched. I asked Mad Dog to throw up a pre-order form that will accomplish a few things. It lets guys order their car and get in a cue so that when we are ready to ship, we have orders ready to build em. It also allows us to get an idea on the purchasing/inventory side. I think that no matter what the order volume, I've learned enough over 15+ years of leading this company that the production start-up will be slow and steady and it would be fantasy to think we would be at more than perhaps one chassis a week for the first 3-6 months. So much depends on the work that is done on the track and on the street between now and launch date. Also I'm considering an entirely new approach to the age-old FFR Assembly Manual in the form of You Tube instructional section shorts 2-4 minutes.

So IF you want to sign on for this madness, I can promise you we will do our best to bring accurate production dates and qualified/tested product to the effort!

Nonprofit: Also, I have to apologize about the design requests. I Ddid clearly indicate that I wasnt 100% happy with the S model yet. Intelligent people would naturally begin to lend a hand and I am appreciative of that. I guess if I was completely direct, I would love it if Vman or one of you other talented guys helped with a removable hardtop and concept lines for a soft top (even a soft top can vary ie. Porsche Boxster S unit is weird/cool). We will publish 2 all-new galleries of images (818R and 818S versions) and you guys can probably use an image from there.

Re: Soft Top. The best soft tops on the market are made by Dave Draper at Rod Tops. He has already been ID'd as the guy who will make the soft top for the 818S. His tops are very weather-proof, tight fitting, and can even be used with AC and heating for sure. Dave's Hot Rod soft tops cost north of $3,000! There would be no way to satisfy the design goals of a $10K kit with a $15K cost to complete, and include a BOM cost of $3K for one peice. The soft top would HAVE to be an option, OR we would have to engineer an inexpensive version that would not seal sufficiently to satisfy the drivability requirements. Hope that explains the puzzle.

The soft top would HAVE to launch as an option.

Going home to hunker down for Hurricane Sandy!! Dave Smith

annnndddddd I just had a heart-attack

[Dave Smith]

ERIK!!!! I am stoked to have your talents applied to the 818 effort. The 33 Hot Rod you guys built on Car Warriors is in our showroom right now and will be auctioned to raise money for the CF Foundation! Great to have you.

Mechie3: You can change back and forth no worry. THANKS!

Guys, There is a Hurricane and I'm the last one here at FFR. I'm going home. I will promote the 818 pre-order process thru our community shortly, but started it here. I hope some people arent upsetand I can promise you that for as much care goes intothe launch, we will also apply similar efforts to make sure we are fair with scheduling. Be SAFE!

[Erik W. Treves]

Dave, thanks...it actually works out good that you guys didn't take it to SEMA.... I am on my way there on the 14th of Nov to see my dad and planned on seeing the East Coast Speed Machines HR33....I miss it ;) Stay safe!

[Vman7]

Dave S. hope you get a flight out to SEMA. Be Safe!

[GUNS]

I placed my order....I think. I hit submit and it stayed on that page. Anyway to confirm the deposit went through?

[VD2021]

I really like the idea of video instructions. However I would prefer the have them on a media to be played directly from, without the use of Youtube or any other web-based players.

I also prefer the pdf version of the manual. I have it on a laptop in the garage. It makes finding things easy and direct.

[mentatbashar]

Also I'm considering an entirely new approach to the age-old FFR Assembly Manual in the form of You Tube instructional section shorts 2-4 minutes.


That would be a good idea for those of us wanting to build a roadster/coupe/33/GTM and cannot make it to build school. It might help clarify any confusing or challenging sections of a build. :cool:

[Erik W. Treves]

I placed my order....I think. I hit submit and it stayed on that page. Anyway to confirm the deposit went through?

same question......

[Mechie3]

Mine stayed at a similar looking page, but if you scrolled down below the pic it said something like "thank you, we will contact you shortly".

[Dave Smith]

Mad dog left but he used his magical cell phone thingy to log onto our system, while in traffic, in a hurricane, and says all orders are going thru. I'll see if he can change the form to have some better confirm message. Also, no-one's credit cards are being charged becuase that set-up, like any/all ffr kit deposits requires a person to download, read, and verify information before a charge is put thru. I am out the door! It' blowing crazy out there!!! Dave

[Nuul]

I'm seriously torn between the S and R. Argh!

You have a dedicated racer already, so I'd say the S for sure. It'd be a fun car for you and the Mrs. to take out on the weekends since it actually has two seats. It's always easier to get the wife to not ***** about something if it's something you do together.

[Mechie3]

You have a dedicated racer already, so I'd say the S for sure. It'd be a fun car for you and the Mrs. to take out on the weekends since it actually has two seats. It's always easier to get the wife to not ***** about something if it's something you do together.

I'd mod it to fit two. My biggest concern is really just side impact protection. My concern about going R is needing a helmet (unless I cut the bars off) and that won't bode well with the wifey. Plus, if I ever make it out to a track, the R would be fun to have.

[PhyrraM]

Stay safe guys.

[WonderDude]

Stay safe guys.

Let's all pray that the Smiths and all the FFR guys/gals and the building get through the storm unharmed in anyway!!!

[cyderus]

I'm seriously torn between the S and R. Argh!

Re: Indiana VIN Check. Interesting. I thought the police officer had to come inspect lots of things, not just the VIN. Nice to know.

i know if u buy a car from out of state it DOES have to be inspected. been there done that. they check basically all the lights and safety stuff.

Dave

hope u get to sema that would be a bummer. remember that this is your vision and we are along for the ride. change what u feel that needs it or leave it b, all in all its ur decision im just lookin at ways to make mine different to suite me. the only thing stopping me from buying this car is u scraping the project and that aint gonna happen. cat wait for all the pics comin in very shortly

[Nuul]

I'd mod it to fit two. My biggest concern is really just side impact protection. My concern about going R is needing a helmet (unless I cut the bars off) and that won't bode well with the wifey. Plus, if I ever make it out to a track, the R would be fun to have.

Not a bad plan. The only other downside I can see about the R is getting hassled by the county mounties who aren't aware it's street legal. It's not every day they see a dude and his wife rolling down the street in a mini-Ferrari wearing helmets.

[HelluvaEngineer]

Hi Dave,

I used to help design pagers and cell phones for Motorola. One saying that was very fitting was "opinions are like A-holes, everybody has one" Then another guy would say "Yea and some of them stink more than others"

It is so hard to put your heart and soul into stuff and then get so much negative feedback. I am impressed with how well you handled it. It gets very emotional. I almost got fired once at Motorola during a particularly tough part of the process.

[Xusia]

I love that this forum was born when the 818 design contest was introduced and launched. I asked Mad Dog to throw up a pre-order form that will accomplish a few things. It lets guys order their car and get in a cue so that when we are ready to ship, we have orders ready to build em. It also allows us to get an idea on the purchasing/inventory side. I think that no matter what the order volume, I've learned enough over 15+ years of leading this company that the production start-up will be slow and steady and it would be fantasy to think we would be at more than perhaps one chassis a week for the first 3-6 months. So much depends on the work that is done on the track and on the street between now and launch date. Also I'm considering an entirely new approach to the age-old FFR Assembly Manual in the form of You Tube instructional section shorts 2-4 minutes.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of videos. I've always had a hard time with just pictures & text, and having something in live action SHOW you how would be infinitely more helpful.

That said, I agree somewhat with the other folks in regards to:

Having the videos available for download at full resolution (someone suggested DVD, but there I don't see any reason they couldn't be made available for download; people could burn them to DVD if they really needed)
Having some things available via PDF (for download). Maybe not detailed instructions, but things like parts lists, high level assembly overview, etc.




Re: Soft Top. The best soft tops on the market are made by Dave Draper at Rod Tops. He has already been ID'd as the guy who will make the soft top for the 818S. His tops are very weather-proof, tight fitting, and can even be used with AC and heating for sure. Dave's Hot Rod soft tops cost north of $3,000! There would be no way to satisfy the design goals of a $10K kit with a $15K cost to complete, and include a BOM cost of $3K for one peice. The soft top would HAVE to be an option, OR we would have to engineer an inexpensive version that would not seal sufficiently to satisfy the drivability requirements. Hope that explains the puzzle.

The soft top would HAVE to launch as an option.

Based on everything I've read up until now, I had always assumed that would be the case.

[wallace18]

Well I made my deposit on a 818S. I know I will add several options when the time comes. Thanks to all at FFR for this car. I am so stoked on this build. All my donor stuff is ready and waiting. I am going to try to pick it up so I can see the factory. I hope I can change my option to ship if I can't get a trailer to work out. I pray for the safety of all in the storm. Take care and God Bless.

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

I hope I can change my option to ship if I can't get a trailer to work out.

Having first-hand experience with Factory Five (including changing from no-hood hinges to hood-hinges about 3 weeks before delivery), there is ZERO chance you won't be able to change it. Do not even think about it again. If your transportation doesn't work out - you WILL be able to change it.

I highly recommend visiting the factory. I was there 3 times (once before I ordered, once to pick up my roadster) and again when I had a broken Bilstein shock. I thought they might want to see 'first hand' how it was installed (so I put it in my trailer and took it to them).

[RM1SepEx]

My order is placed as well. I can't wait to go down to Factory 5 and check out the 818S at the Factory!

[timmy318]

My order is placed as well. I can't wait to go down to Factory 5 and check out the 818S at the Factory!

Add your name here (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7994-Pre-Order-your-818(S-R)-for-99)

[timmy318]

Proudly placed an order earlier today on the 818s

[bstuke]

Placed my order, you already have my deposit...

[Mechie3]

i know if u buy a car from out of state it DOES have to be inspected. been there done that. they check basically all the lights and safety stuff.



I've brought two cars in from out of state. One I drove in (when I moved from NY), the other I bought on facebook and had it titled and plated with IN plates while it was still in NY. Both times the only inspection was an officer or BMV employee verifying the VIN. For the facebook car, an officer in NY verified the make, model, color, and VIN. My brother mailed me the signed paper, I went to the BMV and plated it.

[wallace18]

It looks like the S is the model that has people putting money down. I am looking forward to hearing from FFR on production. When exactly is 2nd quarter/3rd?

[Mechie3]

It looks like the S is the model that has people putting money down. I am looking forward to hearing from FFR on production. When exactly is 2nd quarter/3rd?

I think there's so many unknowns right now, that S is the safe bet. Also, with the +$1000 next to the R version, and not knowing what else comes with the R that might not be needed, it's a little daunting.

[AZPete]

I added my name and $ to the production list for 818S ASAP. (Mad Dog, please let me know if you don't see AZPete.)
Having built a Mk3 and seeing all that FFR does, I have no problem with whatever choices they make for changes.
I just wish the Stewart truck were backing into my driveway now.
Best of luck to all at SEMA or those trying to get there.
Pete

[RM1SepEx]

Add your name here (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7994-Pre-Order-your-818(S-R)-for-99)

already did!

[metalmaker12]

Already did!!! Wooo Hoooo

[bstuke]

Pre-ordered mine :D I figured you would have just laid some tubing out on the garage floor and welded one up by now!

Can't wait.

[cmcintyre]

And one more pre order in.....

[2006 WRB 818]

Just reserved my 818S!!! I am so excited. Can't wait to see the car in person at SEMA tomorrow morning!!!!

[Stickshift84]

Just placed my reservation too... SOOOO EXCITED!!!! Now about this hurricane

[treadstone]

I'm really looking forward to when FFR releases the hardtop or targa; being in the Pacific Northwest prevents me from being able to enjoy (or see) the sun.

[Xusia]

May I make a humble request? Can we keep this thread about updates to the 818 & SEMA? I know there is a lot of excitement about being able to pre-order (REALLY, I do get it. I wish I could add my name to that list right now; if it weren't for lack of windows...), and I don't want to diminish that. It's really cool to see. BUT, there is a thread started about the pre-orders, so perhaps we could move pre-order related discussion & comments to that thread and continue the excitement there? Is that reasonable to ask? :)

[Mechie3]

^^ NO! :lol: jk.

I would assume a new thread would be made tomorrow with official SEMA updates, answers to questions, launch, etc. It does get hard to follow stuff when the same info is on two different threads.

[timmy318]

May I make a humble request? Can we keep this thread about updates to the 818 & SEMA? I know there is a lot of excitement about being able to pre-order (REALLY, I do get it. I wish I could add my name to that list right now; if it weren't for lack of windows...), and I don't want to diminish that. It's really cool to see. BUT, there is a thread started about the pre-orders, so perhaps we could move pre-order related discussion & comments to that thread and continue the excitement there? Is that reasonable to ask? :)

I would say that when SEMA starts Dave Smith or someone else will start an official thread for updates

[michael everson]

Im in. WOOHOO

[Drew P]

The roadster on the 818S is the same core body shape/panels as the 818R. The plan was to launch a roadster with soft top 818S, then a race version 818R, followed by, if the platform is successful (or perhaps if it isnt!), a derivative Coupe or removeable hard top. Right now I am very pleased with the race version and street version (more with te race than street at this time). The soft top has not been designed, but we know Rod Tops will be the pick to design it for weather sealing and ease of use.

I started a long time ago asking you guys which car to launch. I am still in serious debate over this. The race version with a windshield is one avenue. More later as it's my daughter Nicole's 18th birthday and I am supposed to make a cake.


The 818R with a windshield is what I'm looking for. Looking at the pictures between the 818R and 818S, I can't figure out how difficult it would be to fix a windshield to the R if it is not an option from FFR. I'm sure it can be done. Dave S, please make this an option! I know you guys will be able to make it all work together a lot better than I can.

Both cars look amazing and I can't wait to build one. I have the donor in the garage just waiting!

[Mechie3]

I was wondering what makes the R cost more. Obviously more material and labor for the frame but if part of it is upgraded shocks then I wonder if its cheaper with base S shocks.

[narkosys]

I just looked at the updated 'what you get' list and have a question for the FFr guys. Since the shocks, fuel tank and a few other parts are not allowed to be shipped in the kit to Canada I assuming that Whitby will have a Canadian completion kit like all your other kits yes?

P

[Samiam1017]

I thought about the R but it's not going to have operational doors it's one thing for me to get into it but not my wife. And the wing and splitter are options for the S anyway.

[Samiam1017]

The shocks are probably the same. Maybe different valveing and springs. Unless they add bump and rebound adjustments. That would be the only thing that I could see making them cost more.

[Xusia]

It has been stated previously that the R would come with better shocks than the S. Specific KONI models were not specified, and it wasn't stated in what way the R model shocks were better. I believe the S model shocks are already fully adjustable, so the R model shocks could be simply different spring & valve rates (like you mention), or perhaps a higher end model altogether.

[Cj_]

Dave,

Will the 818 be made available in right hand drive? If so, what are your development plans for international customers? I'm from Australia and have been following this project closely, and I'm looking forward to getting one in the shed!

Cheers,

Cameron

[AJW Performance]

Couple shots from today ( Still here enjoying the dinner/ cocktail hour)

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-26285-1351554828276.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-27238-1351554811916.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-31035-1351554787289.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-11620-1351554724651.jpg

[timmy318]

Couple shots from today ( Still here enjoying the dinner/ cocktail hour)

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-26285-1351554828276.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-27238-1351554811916.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-31035-1351554787289.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-11620-1351554724651.jpg

OMG! You guys are alive!!!!!!

[AJW Performance]

yessir, we made it before the storm, out here at SEMA (closed for the week but will do my best to email/ anwser phone).
I can take better pics tomorrow, but by then I am sure there will be 500 taken from others, so those cell phone taken teasers will have to do until then :)

[Mechie3]

The cars look much smaller in those pics than they do in some of the others.

[bbjones121]

Awesome!! We will be able to really work with that interior. I am already learning how to upholster.

[Highway Star]

I like the smaller front splitter attached to the S. It looks just right.

[michael everson]

Hmmm wonder what is different about the black car?

[Turboguy]

haha!


I've got a MK3 roadster in the garage and now have an order in the pipe for an 818R!


Boo-yeah!

[mentatbashar]

The 818S looks good in red and the forgstar wheels really help set it off. Thanks for the pics. Still like the blue on the R though. :cool:

[Samiam1017]

There's another red and black one in the pics. Any info on this one

[Mechie3]

It's a different car. Wheel arch to door opening is too long, mirrors are different. Looks like an s2k.

[Highway Star]

I was thinking it's a GTM.

[Samiam1017]

The front door to fender area looks similar. But now that I look again at the othe pic the bottom of the door is curved and closer to the rear tire....I think I just got a little excited that there might be a"Secret" they were keeping from us.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

12627
there's another red and black one in the pics. Any info on this one

could that be a 818rs :)

[AJW Performance]

Taking pics for you guys was on my mind all day, then it was rush hour and before I knew it I neglected to take the images (with my good camera) that I promised myself! I will do it first thing in the AM!

The carbon fiber side skirts on the 818S was my personal favorite discovery, the car just looks plain sexy, can't really think of a more mature way to describe it!

[AJW Performance]

It's a different car. Wheel arch to door opening is too long, mirrors are different. Looks like an s2k.

That is a GTM believe it or not

[Sultan]

I thought this day would NEVER get here!!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Probably the 818R going to the KONI booth.

[AJW Performance]

The 818R is in fact in the Koni booth (our donor in it). Koni is about 30 feet from the FFR booth.

[AJW Performance]

I thought this day would NEVER get here!!!


The day has come! :)

[NonProfit]

The day has come! :)

12628
Wake up little 818, it's time to win at SEMA.

[Mechie3]

Yeah my bad its a GTM. For some reason it looked like an adjacent booth not the FFR booth.

[skullandbones]

That is a really nice offering for a basic interior. I'm assuming that most of the panels are supplied in the kit and the donor peices include column, wheel, seats, and guage pod. That looks very good for a basic build. The possibilities for a real high end interior are endless! It is so much more finished than I thought it would be. Wow! Great job FFR! WEK.

[timmy318]

That is a really nice offering for a basic interior. I'm assuming that most of the panels are supplied in the kit and the donor peices include column, wheel, seats, and guage pod. That looks very good for a basic build. The possibilities for a real high end interior are endless! It is so much more finished than I thought it would be. Wow! Great job FFR! WEK.

Yea. For $15K you get all this! Imagine what you could do for around $20-30K! I mean, it'd look like a $200,000 car inside & out and be able to preform just like one!

[Silvertop]

That is a really nice offering for a basic interior. I'm assuming that most of the panels are supplied in the kit and the donor peices include column, wheel, seats, and guage pod. That looks very good for a basic build. The possibilities for a real high end interior are endless! It is so much more finished than I thought it would be. Wow! Great job FFR! WEK.

I'm impressed too. Nicely done!

[BS Mods]

^^^ What he said.

With some leather seats, custom console, nice sound system, etc. I think you could still come in under $20k and it will look like a million bucks!


Such a great job on this car. I have restored many muscle cars that were headed to the grave and have always thought about how great it would be to start building something with a straight frame, no body cancer, and bolt on parts. And then I found you guys. :cool:

I have a new track that is being finished right near my home (Ridge Motorsports Park) and I cannot wait to show up in a 818! Hopefully I am the first one lol. Let's get these cars tested so we can get rockin'.

[Benji]

T minus 12 hours to SEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[smoove7410]

I'm not liking the S too much, but LOVE the R!

[David Hodgkins]

Just got into my room. Hitting the sack right now and meeting the FFR team @ 7am.

It's SEMA TIME!

:)

[Turboguy]

It's SEMA TIME!

whoo-hoo!


Lots of detail shots would be great, if you have the chance.

[Neptune's Snorkel]

Good luck at SEMA, guys!!

[wallace18]

Great shots of the S. The interior is beyond my dreams. So much that we can customize to our tastes. I don't know what Dave Smith thinks is missing from the S. To me it looks like a 80K car from the outside. This is going to be a home run for FFR. I am glad to be amoung the first ones to preorder. Can't wait to see more. Hats off to FFR for a job beyond well done!

[mentatbashar]

Don't forget to try and get any "inside" scoops from the crew! Pictures and details!

[PhyrraM]

I like the shape and simplicity of the dash. However, being 100% smooth, adding any additional switchgear or a stereo is going to look out of place.

[ehansen007]

Fantastic job FFR!! What an incredible journey from the question posed of "WRX donor or Trophy Truck?" at SEMA two years ago!! I love the car and like many, I think the biggest mod will be coming in the way of lights. To me the lights and grill define a vehicle and these are a bit too Japanese for me but they are great platform. Just changing them with a cover designing your own insert could do wonders to making this look like a true original made in America. AFTER you get it registered of course. :) Just a quick photoshop here.

With that said, to the designers: The rear end of this car came out amazing and great job overall. I'm hoping someone filmed this. It would have made a great documentary for Velocity.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/SEMA%202011/8183.jpg

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/SEMA%202011/818.jpg

[Dave Smith]

It looks like I'll be able to get out of Logan tonight and be at SEMA tommorow. I just spoke to the crew and they are STOKED with the show.

One of the things I am MOST PROUD of is that these two cars are PROTOTYPES. It is a HUGE testament to the accuracy of CAD tooling that the actual cars came out so close to the renderings and plans. We decided to keep the dash as clean and simple as possible. The interior is spartan, and reflects the elemental nature of the car. Truth be told, we found with the GTM that simple interiors are less expensive to design and leave alot of room for talented guys to build from. The subie gauge pod is a perfect fit in the CAD surface scanned dash and upper surround. (Lotus is a master of this principle). I think that the car is so ready right now, but, as stated in the pre-order terms, it will inevitably undergo changes in design based on feedback and testing and that some parts of the car are not finalized or will require mods based on functional and durability testing.

There is alot of work ahead and you should know that I was completely 100% alone in the decision to begin a pre-order process. Then again, my names on the door and sometimes the hard decisions are the ones you find few company with you when making. We have four fun days ahead, and then some good hard work to make sure we nail the production plans. There are a TON of questions that I have not had the time to answer. I'll try and do some of that on the plane, but it is likely that the first updates to folks on the pre-order list will include alot of these.

Alot of guys want to know their order and we will communicate ALL of that with order confirmations (as stated within 30 days). I should say that I am probably NOT going to engage in a ton of developmental questions online, and will use periodic updates to those on the pre-order list to do this in order to make sure there is a sane and orderly launch plan. Thanks for everything guys. It was only 21 months ago that this forum was born and that the idea of the 818 was introduced via design contest. It may seem like we've spent alot of time on this project, but based on my math it is the fastest and best design-to-prototype-to pre production project we've ever done... More importantly, we executed on what we set out to do, on a timetable that has stayed within projections, and within the crucial (and insanely difficult!) price target. The design goals were met and every time I look at them I wonder "What was I thinking of asking these guys to do this!!!?" But they did it.

[Gus]

We decided to keep the dash as clean and simple as possible. The interior is spartan, and reflects the elemental nature of the car.



^That's what I like about it

Good job FFR!!

The car WILL set some HOF!!

[Dave Smith]

Here is what I'm talking about with respect to execution of the project goals: I wrote this when we introduced the concept at winter Open House in February 2011 as the Forum was launched.

Design Goals
• Single Donor Subaru WRX Running Gear
• Factory Five Space Frame Chassis, 95″ Wheel Base
• Mid-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive Configuration
• Target weight – 1,800 lbs./818 kg.
• Two Seater Sports Car Design
• No Paint, Thermoformed Body Panels
• Target Kit Price: $9,900
• Target Vehicle Completion Cost Under $15,000
• Design Partners: SolidWorks Software, Hewlett-Packard, Grassroots Motorsports Magazine, KONI Shocks, Wilwood Brakes, Toyo Tires, TheFactoryFiveForum.com
• Production Target Dates 2012-2013

I wrote a year ago

"The car will be introduced at the 2012 SEMA Show (October 30th – November 2nd) with production beginning in 2013. With a space frame designed and tested on SolidWorks software, this single donor car will sell for $9,900. We have used our 15+ years of accumulated design and manufacturing skills to create a “world car” that can be COMPLETED for less than $15,000."

The ONLY major challenge will be the body molding process. Paint free is so central to being able to meet the target build price! Both cars at SEMA were painted, although the gel-coat bodies were in a condition that, because they are smaller panels without mold seams, they COULD be made in gel-coat. That may be likely at this point, but one of the reasons for the launch dates to be farther out are due to the molding process. The design goals have directed this project from day one and I'm so pleased with the discipline in sticking to them. In our haste we did NOT scale the cars!!! Argh! but we'll do this upon return. The chassis sans body was scaled at 1510 lbs and we're confident that we wont have to change the name of the car from 818 to any higher numbers. :)

[shim2]

The car is amazing. Looks more like a 20k dollar kit. It's really hard to believe that is actually 10k bucks. Great job FFR. I do have a question. Why are the mirrors attached to the windshield and not the door?

[Dave Smith]

I don't know all of Jim's reasons. I know that to meet the target price we didn't want to (couldn't) give up anything. Using the Subaru mirrors made sense. You'll notice the R version uses race mirrors instead of the subie units, and I'm sure some guys may choose to not use the Subie mirrors, but we needed to use them to keep that real design goal target of $9990 kit/sub $15K to complete, and I believe that the location on the steel windshield pillar (has laser cut mount holes) makes it easy to mount and is probably good for visibility because you sit pretty low in the thing, even lower with a race seat.

[mentatbashar]

Dave,

What color paint is the blue/white on the R and red on the S? Did you powdercoat or paint the wheels white?

[freds]

I really hope to meet you tomorrow Dave, so good luck with the flights!!!!

fred (struve)

[Dave Smith]

Both 818s at SEMA (the blue/white R and the red S) were painted with a brand-new line of paints developed with Sherwin Williams for Factory Five Racing. We will be publishing and promoting these colors but ONE of the reasons that I decided to paint both cars was to promote these new official colors.

The wheels are Forge Stars and they come in aluminum finish clear coat or white powdercoated. We bought 1 set of each.

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/DSC_9190.jpg

[bstuke]

I suspect there are a bunch of people that have been brought into the fold because of the 818, and have not been around back to the days of a MKI using a Fox body Mustang.

Having said that, this is the exact same concept, only improved due to advances in computer technology.

But the biggest improvement can't be measured, and that is the knowledge and experience of Dave, Jim, Jesper, Mad Dog and all of the rest of the team at Factory Five Racing.

Where else can you buy a truly polished kit for $10K, a donor for $3.5K(2005 Impreza RS with 74K miles on Craigslist in Atlanta as I type this), and build something that will turn heads and truly make you beam with pride.

One of the things I thoroughly enjoy is how we "talk amongst ourselves", and occasionally hear from Dave, or someone else on the team about progress, ideas, and direction.

This is really a fun time, and sometime towards the middle of next year, I suspect there is going to be tons of activity from everyone on the progress of their respective builds. Not to mention the sharing of ideas, enhancements, and the friendships made at build parties.

It is going to be a blast people..

Have fun at SEMA!

[michael everson]

I built my first Roadster back in 1997 using the total donor concept. I was driving that car in gelcoat in just three weeks. That did not include tearing the donor apart. Granted its nothing like the cars I build today, but the concept worked. Fast forward 15 years and look whats before us. Another donor concept, except with 15 more years experience and state of the art design capabilities. This is going to be home run for FFR.
Mike

[mentatbashar]

Both 818s at SEMA (the blue/white R and the red S) were painted with a brand-new line of paints developed with Sherwin Williams for Factory Five Racing. We will be publishing and promoting these colors but ONE of the reasons that I decided to paint both cars was to promote these new official colors.

The wheels are Forge Stars and they come in aluminum finish clear coat or white powdercoated. We bought 1 set of each.

Ok, cool. Looking forward to hearing more about this line of paints. Thank you!

[Zodiac]

Hell even if the panels are not ready right away I wouldnt mind getting everything else and putting it together to get a jump start before the panels are official done. And I like the simple interior like Dave mentioned opens options to everyone on how and what they want.

[Zodiac]

I never built any other car so I was curious as to how detailed the manuals are? Should I mark all my hoses and what not or is it gonna be described in the manual where all the pieces go?

[Wayne Presley]

Current manual for a roadster is over 300 pages with pics and is available in PDF format as well.

[wallace18]

What's up in Vegas? I am suffering from lack of current data and pictures. Please help a guy out!

[Sebxb]

What's up in Vegas? I am suffering from lack of current data and pictures. Please help a guy out!

+1 (!!!!)

[jkrueger]

^^^^^ What he said!

[AJW Performance]

Anything for you Tom Wallace ;)

Ok, some good pics:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1740.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1739.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1738.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1737.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1736.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1735.jpg

[AJW Performance]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1734.jpg

It looks awesome in these pics; and even better in real life. It screams fast and gives you the chills at first glance!

[clintavo]

Awesome! Can we get a couple of the doors open?

[DrieStone]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1734.jpg

I'll be 100% honest. I've been less than enthused with the way 818 has been looking since this summer. I wanted to wait until SEMA before I made any "rash" judgments (or statements). I'm still not sold, but this does get me a little more excited. I'm still unsatisfied with some angles, but this picture turned me from "probably not" to "this has potential".

I still love FFR and everything Dave and the crew has been doing, but I was beginning to consider a roadster, or perhaps even saving a lot more pennies and trying for a GTM.

I think after SEMA I need to make the trip to FFR to see it in person. I can't wait to see it continue to evolve.

The interior is interesting. At first I thought it was too simple, but instead I see it as "a lot of potential to make it mine".

Overall, kudos to Dave and the entire Factory Five team. I think you're going to see a lot of positive feedback and a lot of purchases. I can't wait to see what the future of 818 looks like.

[Mechie3]

How about some pics of the R and the go kart!?!?

The S looks more and more like a Boxster Spyder to me, not that that is a bad thing. The rear top vent on the S is a nice touch. Wish the roll bar was slightly higher and wider, but as is, it keeps it away from passengers heads.

The straight on back of the R is cool, but I wish the upper vents were a different shape. Looks like stacked shapes. Mayber bigger corner radii to make it less geometric looking?

I'd like to see close ups of the door handles, seat mounting...heck, everything. lol.

The interior is nice and simple. That square center console makes mounting things simple.

[AZPete]

To me, the 818 looks better with every pic! (Some are always critical.)
Can you get a pic of someone 6 feet or taller sitting in the 818S, please? Would he be able to get in the 818S if there were a top?
Thanks!

[shim2]

Put a hardtop on it and some power windows and I'm sold! Where I live power windows and a true convertible are a must. The weather changes in a matter of minutes from beautiful sunshine to torrential downpour. Amazingly beautiful car as it sits. Easily FFR's best design to date. MUCH better than the GTM, IMO.

p.s. Where are the exterior door handles?

I'd like to see some pictures of someone standing next to it, sitting in it.

[skullandbones]

The clearances on the front tires looks insanely close. It must have a seriously stiff suspension. I love the wind screen and the mirrors mounted on the posts look pretty good for the stock mirrors but the aero type mirrors in the same position would be great. I would love to see the "staulk" mounted rearview mirror from the R on the S version. That would be very sexy. There are lots of things that can be done to make this your own especially with the interior (turned aluminum or carbon fiber dash inserts and door panel inserts for instance). The rear wing or some version of it and the front spitter would be bada** on the S version too.

Where are all the people? Is this before the show begins? Are you not allowed to take pictures of the other vendors drooling over the 818?

Thanks for giving us unfortunate ones the opportunity to pick into the show.
WEK.

[Mike N]

There are lots of things that can be done to make this your own.

Ain't that the truth. There are a few nits that I still have with some of the body lines etc but they would be pretty simple to change before paint. I'm still surprised how much difference the paint color makes in the looks of the two cars. I want to see one in black, I have a feeling it would look absolutely killer. Now I just need to find myself a viable donor.

[BrandonDrums]

The clearances on the front tires looks insanely close. It must have a seriously stiff suspension. I love the wind screen and the mirrors mounted on the posts look pretty good for the stock mirrors but the aero type mirrors in the same position would be great. I would love to see the "staulk" mounted rearview mirror from the R on the S version. That would be very sexy. There are lots of things that can be done to make this your own especially with the interior (turned aluminum or carbon fiber dash inserts and door panel inserts for instance). The rear wing or some version of it and the front spitter would be bada** on the S version too.


WEK.

I think the control arm geometry allows the tire to angle inward under compression which will help them miss the edge of the wheel well and not rub. My bud's MKIII 65 roadster has similar clearances up front and doesn't have any issues with rubbing.

Technically, you don't want much dynamic camber under compression because that can have a negative effect on braking grip but FFR has that all worked out - they've been using unequal length control arms and koni coilovers since day 1 and for good reason.

Plus it looks awesome.

[G_Hodgkins]

12636 a quick edit on my tablet

[BrandonDrums]

I'll be 100% honest. I've been less than enthused with the way 818 has been looking since this summer. I wanted to wait until SEMA before I made any "rash" judgments (or statements). I'm still not sold, but this does get me a little more excited. I'm still unsatisfied with some angles, but this picture turned me from "probably not" to "this has potential".

I still love FFR and everything Dave and the crew has been doing, but I was beginning to consider a roadster, or perhaps even saving a lot more pennies and trying for a GTM.

I think after SEMA I need to make the trip to FFR to see it in person. I can't wait to see it continue to evolve.

The interior is interesting. At first I thought it was too simple, but instead I see it as "a lot of potential to make it mine".

Overall, kudos to Dave and the entire Factory Five team. I think you're going to see a lot of positive feedback and a lot of purchases. I can't wait to see what the future of 818 looks like.

I am actually pleasntly surprised with the look. The rear end looks better than any design competition submission I had hoped to see in the production version. The very front of the car could be a bit more aggressive looking when the front spoiler isn't attached but no worries, the thing looks a whole lot like Xabier's design but with a far better looking rear end.

Having been present and active through the entire design competition process and getting emotionally attached to so many designs I think it's easy to be judgmental of what FFR has produced here. However, objectively speaking this is quite possibly the best designed initial release of any car FFR has produced including their replicas. The original Cobra had a high rear and front that not all liked (I did), the GTM to some had a greenhouse a bit small and low in proportion to the rest of the car at first, the Spyder was fantastic but wasn't unique enough to sell over the 65 coupe and roadsters. The '33 coupe still could be the best original design by FFR to most but I'm not into the hotrod thing myself. I much prefer the modern and classic racers over showcar pieces.

Major props to FFR for using the design competition elements that had everyone riled up, improving them and making this car. If you just set your emotional attachment to the other designs aside, you will realize that this car is very much a world class design and really takes FFR's portfolio to a new level. In fact, the fit and finish is SO good on this car that it's a little mind blowing that it's also the least expensive kit FFR sells. I think the new technologies incorporated on the 818 will probably quickly make it over to the other kits because the 818 as seen here overshadows the fit and finish of all the other kits perhaps save the GTM but at a fraction of the cost.

I really just wish I had the cash to pre-order the S version right now. With the ground effects.

[jkrueger]

Mad dog posted some pictures here.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8013-The-2012-SEMA-Show-is-Under-Way!

[jimgood]

I'm all about the performance. I think the car looks great and unique and I'd be proud to be seen in it. Frankly, I'd drive a Volvo 240 with an LS7 if it gets me around the track in a hot hurry. I don't have a discerning eye. I couldn't care less that this car has Camry headlights or vaguely resembles other cars in some way or another. As it sits, it stands apart from anything I've ever seen at the tracks I've been to. I think, with enough engine and a competent driver, it's going stay ahead of almost anything at those tracks, including those costing 9 - 10 times what this car will. That makes me smile.

[flytosail]

Anyone?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/flytosail/e62853392853ced80c71546d71f499e6.jpg

[Gus]

Anyone?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/flytosail/e62853392853ced80c71546d71f499e6.jpg

Adjustable coilover...ground clearance shoudn't be an issue

[Mechie3]

We don't need no stinkin ground clearance. lol.

[shim2]

We don't need no stinkin ground clearance. lol.

We DO need more pictures. Seriously, where are they!

[Mechie3]

Agree I'm a little disappointed. Usually the Subaru forums have tons of pics of every car at SEMA. So far no one has anything.

[Turboguy]

I'm curious why FFR changed the design of the roll bar from the original CAD rendering to that seen on the pre-production cars? Was it for strength/safety? Manufacturing cost? Complexity? I find it changes the look of the car dramatically.


If it's strictly a cost/complexity issue perhaps it could be offered as an upgrade/option.

[Erik W. Treves]

Agree I'm a little disappointed. Usually the Subaru forums have tons of pics of every car at SEMA. So far no one has anything.

considering it just started today I think this is about right....

[Mechie3]

NASIOC has so many people that there's usually a handful posting tons of pics on the first day. Not even a single thread. I'm just too anxious this year!

[TCL1999]

I'll be 100% honest. I've been less than enthused with the way 818 has been looking since this summer. I wanted to wait until SEMA before I made any "rash" judgments (or statements). I'm still not sold, but this does get me a little more excited. I'm still unsatisfied with some angles, but this picture turned me from "probably not" to "this has potential".

I still love FFR and everything Dave and the crew has been doing, but I was beginning to consider a roadster, or perhaps even saving a lot more pennies and trying for a GTM.

I think after SEMA I need to make the trip to FFR to see it in person. I can't wait to see it continue to evolve.

The interior is interesting. At first I thought it was too simple, but instead I see it as "a lot of potential to make it mine".

Overall, kudos to Dave and the entire Factory Five team. I think you're going to see a lot of positive feedback and a lot of purchases. I can't wait to see what the future of 818 looks like.


You know, I just had an epiphany about the 818 while I was searching Craigslist for my WRX donor :) I think the 818 looks so much better now in these photos than it did during the development stage/first reveal CAD renderings. But you know, it's not the absolute end-all be-all of sports car aesthetics.

Here's my epiphany - You know what the 818 looks 1000 times better than? ANY WRX...EVER. I'm a huge WRX fan, and have been since they first came over here in 2002. I always thought the car was just a fantastic value, with a super awesome combination of turbo flat-4 and AWD. Not once have ever thought that the car was beautiful. And that car was designed by (comparatively) mega-bucks designers at Subaru. So keep that in mind when you're building your kick-*** 818 that is going to get more smiles, questions and compliments than a WRX ever would.

[bbjones121]

Could you imagine the interior with these seats?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-pa-07-spec-b-seats-and-door-panels-195027.html

or these?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-ct-05-front-pair-sti-seats-300-195022.html?t=195022&highlight=seats

Wish we didn't just buy a house so I could start purchasing my parts.

[bstuke]

I have a feeling a certain unnamed individual will be posting a lot of pics later on tonight..

[mydream]

I forgot to mention before...
I love how the the front fenders meet the doors, this will also help with gaps. Also, some pointed out the rear panel... Personally I love the way it is, It will actually help the line for some people that have a different vision.....;-)

[NISMO_RB25]

You know, I just had an epiphany about the 818 while I was searching Craigslist for my WRX donor :) I think the 818 looks so much better now in these photos than it did during the development stage/first reveal CAD renderings. But you know, it's not the absolute end-all be-all of sports car aesthetics.

Here's my epiphany - You know what the 818 looks 1000 times better than? ANY WRX...EVER. I'm a huge WRX fan, and have been since they first came over here in 2002. I always thought the car was just a fantastic value, with a super awesome combination of turbo flat-4 and AWD. Not once have ever thought that the car was beautiful. And that car was designed by (comparatively) mega-bucks designers at Subaru. So keep that in mind when you're building your kick-*** 818 that is going to get more smiles, questions and compliments than a WRX ever would.

It also looks better than any car you can buy for 15k and should also destroy any car you could buy for 15k. If I had more garage space I would have ordered the S and the R instead of just the S. Great work FF team. Can't wait to build one and drive it.

[flytosail]

We don't need no stinkin ground clearance. lol.

I was given the price of $15k for paving my drive. Anyone got a better idea of where to spend that money rather then on paving? Fiqure that I would be good to go with anything over 3+ inches.

[flynntuna]

We DO need more pictures. Seriously, where are they!

lots of new pictures on the FFR website.

[flytosail]

Could you imagine the interior with these seats?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-pa-07-spec-b-seats-and-door-panels-195027.html

or these?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-ct-05-front-pair-sti-seats-300-195022.html?t=195022&highlight=seats

Wish we didn't just buy a house so I could start purchasing my parts.


Those with red? Add to cart.

[G_Hodgkins]

Calm down people! ;) Its day one and trust me when I say that there are going to be a lot more pictures of today coming up tonight.

[RM1SepEx]

I need to buy some wrx mirrors, my roll over crushed them! Bummer my donor is now short a couple parts!

Looks great, more interior details please...

[Mechie3]

06 tr mirrors or standard impreza mirrors are likely cheaper than the painted wrx mirrors.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Could you imagine the interior with these seats?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-pa-07-spec-b-seats-and-door-panels-195027.html

or these?
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/fs-ct-05-front-pair-sti-seats-300-195022.html?t=195022&highlight=seats



Honestly...no.

Jeff

[rori]

Only took one pic today.

http://i.imgur.com/DBjsV.jpg

[mydream]

Honestly...no.

Jeff

You need to look at it from a waxer point of view....;-)
T.

[flynntuna]

Gone thru 3 fire extinguishers so far, should probably shave my head.LOL

[0100]

Anyone?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff124/flytosail/e62853392853ced80c71546d71f499e6.jpg

LOL the first think I see when I look at that picture, is it needs to be 1" lower and at least a 1" spacers.

[RM1SepEx]

06 tr mirrors or standard impreza mirrors are likely cheaper than the painted wrx mirrors.

never saw "mirrors" on my donor, just plastic carnage!

something like these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-05-SUBARU-IMPREZA-RED-LED-ARROWS-K6-POWER-SIDE-SPORT-MIRRORS-LEFT-RIGHT-PAIR-/370678164795?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A2005%7CMake%3ASubaru%7CModel%3AImpreza&hash=item564e23ed3b&vxp=mtr

ebay has tons of variations...

[flytosail]

Only took one pic today.

http://i.imgur.com/DBjsV.jpg


Just sent this photo out to a bunch of friends. One replied with:

"you can write an online novel, "how i lost my license in 2nd gear.""

[Mechie3]

Get these Ferrari-esque mirrors. Haha,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/02-05-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX-F430-STYLE-SIDE-POWER-MIRROR-LED-YELLOW-ARROW-SIGNAL-/290800869899?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43b515220b&vxp=mtr


I like how low the car looks in that pic. The windshield looks barely over the guys waist!

[narkosys]

12636 a quick edit on my tablet


there goes THAT box of tissues!!! :P that is drop dead sexy.

P

[txjeepn]

I know I know I know. It's not a finished product yet. But I do need to ask the question about windshield wipers. The hood looks really close to the windshield. And I don't see wipers.



http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1739.jpg

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

Definitely need windshield wipers!

[shim2]

A lot of states require windshield wipers and a defrosting system. As beautiful as the car is I'm beginning to think I'm going to wait for a coupe.

[timmy318]

A lot of states require windshield wipers and a defrosting system. As beautiful as the car is I'm beginning to think I'm going to wait for a coupe.

Dave Smith stated that this car is far from being done! Design wise it is nearly complete but little things here and there are still being figured out. Jim said that he expects the 818 to begin rolling out of FFR sometime durning June-July. From now until then they will figure out what options & etc... to offer. IMHO I think that before then FFR or someone else will design a hardtop due to the serious market for this car.

[bbjones121]

Not with red exterior, the seats would go well with a blue or black 818s.


Honestly...no.

Jeff

[AJW Performance]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-3392-1351652538869.jpg

Per request, for scaling purposes.
A 6 footer beside the 818S

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-44199-1351652504842.jpg

[timmy318]

Car stands 4 ft high? Not bad..... Not bad at all.... Also, what participant are y'all at?