818 SEMA Update WITH PICS!

[cyderus]

Car stands 4 ft high? Not bad..... Not bad at all.... Also, what participant are y'all at?
i dont think thats quite 4 ft. isnt the gtm like 42 in. and i would think this would b a touch shorter

[timmy318]

i dont think thats quite 4 ft. isnt the gtm like 42 in. and i would think this would b a touch shorter

I just went off of the 6 ft guy, and now that I look at it more closely I'd say it's actually around 3.5 ft or 42 in. like you said. Any lower and my butts gonna be draggin on the ground! :p

[bbjones121]

Are tapemeasures confiscated at the door?

[skullandbones]

I think the GTM has a built in wind shield wiper cowl. It kind of surprises me that the 818S doesn't have that feature. It's a standard design feature you see in most premium line vehicles. But Dave said this is a prototype so it could be that will be one feature they add to it down the line. Also, the time line of the project may have limited the reworking of a panel like that at this time. Dave made mention of not expecting a lot of panel changes. Hopefully, someone from FFR could answer that question. So just add it to the long list. Not having that feature would not affect my decision to build one though. WEK. :cool:

[Kalstar]

Just sent this photo out to a bunch of friends. One replied with:

"you can write an online novel, "how i lost my license in 2nd gear.""

Just want to say....this kit has evolved from Jim's design to "our design"..... a crowd scored design. Be it, it still has the basic shape of Jim's ideas, but now it has many MANY design ques from the contest entrees. Say what you will, I say...... Well done!!!

Look at the difference.

[David Hodgkins]

I just created a pic album with a BOATLOAD of pics! 175 so far:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

:)

[David]

I suspect there are a bunch of people that have been brought into the fold because of the 818, and have not been around back to the days of a MKI using a Fox body Mustang.

Having said that, this is the exact same concept, only improved due to advances in computer technology.

But the biggest improvement can't be measured, and that is the knowledge and experience of Dave, Jim, Jesper, Mad Dog and all of the rest of the team at Factory Five Racing.

Where else can you buy a truly polished kit for $10K, a donor for $3.5K(2005 Impreza RS with 74K miles on Craigslist in Atlanta as I type this), and build something that will turn heads and truly make you beam with pride.

One of the things I thoroughly enjoy is how we "talk amongst ourselves", and occasionally hear from Dave, or someone else on the team about progress, ideas, and direction.

This is really a fun time, and sometime towards the middle of next year, I suspect there is going to be tons of activity from everyone on the progress of their respective builds. Not to mention the sharing of ideas, enhancements, and the friendships made at build parties.

It is going to be a blast people..

Have fun at SEMA!

Well said, and 100% agreed. One thing that is telling to me, is guys like Wayne Presley, Mike Everson, Russ Thompson and tons of others that were around from the very beginning, are still around and excited about FFR and the products they are coming out as they were when they jumped in 10-17 years ago. Shoot, back then Mark and Dave were throwing on the helmet and welding parts for the cars and doing the technical support.

The fact that they have continually pushed the bar and introduced technology at every point they could... partnered with companies like solidworks and HP to have top of the line tools that allow them to do things that the big three only had at their fingertips not that many years ago.

As Dave said, they stuck to the design goals and the price target. Guys, I had one of the very first roadsters, and sold it only a few years ago to built the Mk4 that I have in progress now. The FFR roadster was groundbreaking with its donor concept and a great buy at $9,999.

The 818 at the same price of the roadster 17 years ago, and Im telling you an order of magnitude more sophisticated in design and using a much more advanced and hi-tech donor.

Its a great to see so many young guys interested in these cars, participating in the forum discussion and interested in building them. You really have come to the party at a great time, and benefiting from the nearly 2 decades of experience and learning FFR brings to the table with the 818.

Speaking of technology, Dave, Im bring a bit of technology from Intel that few have seen to show you with an interesting usage model I think you'll appreciate. :D

Look forward to seeing you all on Thursday!

David

[WasAWrx]

I just created a pic album with a BOATLOAD of pics! 175 so far:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

:)
Awesome! Thank you sir!!!

[Benji]

So if this thing should be 818kg (maybe even slightly less!), with stock Impreza seats and other stock Impreza components, I wonder if someone could get it down to 800kg? Or maybe even 790kg? Imagine that.

[cyderus]

So if this thing should be 818kg (maybe even slightly less!), with stock Impreza seats and other stock Impreza components, I wonder if someone could get it down to 800kg? Or maybe even 790kg? Imagine that. or on the other side i think i want to do the h6. it fits and i like a challenge. so mine will b 1900 lbs with an extra 100 hp. my goal is 280-320 hp at 1900 lbs which power to weight is up there with the big dogs. i look forward to making them look bad lol.

[Xusia]

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/photobucket-44199-1351652504842.jpg

When the CAD renderings were first shown I recall some folks were concerned it didn't look like a mid engine car. Looking at this photo, I think those fears were unfounded. I think anyone looking at it is going to assume the engine is NOT in the front! LOL

[Benji]

or on the other side i think i want to do the h6. it fits and i like a challenge. so mine will b 1900 lbs with an extra 100 hp. my goal is 280-320 hp at 1900 lbs which power to weight is up there with the big dogs. i look forward to making them look bad lol.

Well if the H6 isn't turbo'd you may find the lack of turbo/intercooler may offset the extra weight of the H6 and the net change in weight will be zero and you still have the potential to lighten it with alternative donor parts...

The H6 sounds damn sexy, it would be the way I'd want to go.

[Jeff F]

Hi guys,
I was so lucky to get to meet Jim this morning at SEMA. I talked his ear off for a good few hours and he must have answered 50 questions and is a wealth of information. The red car looks so much better in person. Pictures do not do it justice. The R is off the charts though(HOF)! The fit is great even though they are the first molds. New molds will be made and this is when they will fix all details such as wipers and how to access the engine compartment. I now want an R though as that tube frame is amazing and I would like the stiffer frame. Also, the side is protected much better. Should not be a problem to order the full windshield and they used the same lower windshield frame for the small windscreen. Only other issue I see for the R to be useful on the street is the high side roll bars. I won't be racing in any class so I already figured a way to move the bar down to one inch above the door and eliminate the need for a helmet during daily driving. Jim also said he added the bar across the passenger seat for extra rigidness but wasn't sure if that bar would even make it into production anyway. Jim, thank you for all the great information!

[PhyrraM]

........I talked his ear off for a good few hours ................even though they are the first molds. New molds will be made and this is when they will fix all details such as wipers and how to access the engine compartment. ..........................!

Very interesting. A set of prototype molds and a set of production molds was always the plan? With all the talk from Dave about the heavy use of Solidworks and CAD, it seemed like that maybe they were not planning on revised molds.

[Matty_STi]

or on the other side i think i want to do the h6. it fits and i like a challenge. so mine will b 1900 lbs with an extra 100 hp. my goal is 280-320 hp at 1900 lbs which power to weight is up there with the big dogs. i look forward to making them look bad lol.

Not to derail the thread, but the H6 isn't the greatest choice. the ej2xx are great motors and can easily produce the 280-320hp you want (crank or wheel?). If you want to do H6 by all means, there just seem like better, more well known and easier to work on options with better aftermarket support. And of course the community knows the H4s better. There aren't a tonne of H6 builds out there. I am working on putting a turboed (single or twin) in my '12 STi, just because I want a challenge (and 600-700 hp at the wheels).. :S

[Mike N]

I just created a pic album with a BOATLOAD of pics! 175 so far:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

:)

David thanks so much for the photos. You have some angles in there that are just stunning, I can see how the car would give a totally different impression in person rather than in the photos. I need to find a donor and then go visit the factory to see the cars up close for a fit check. By the way please shoe horn your Wookie frame into the street car and have someone take photos. There are a lot of larger guys that would appreciate a 'fit check'. I know that I just don't fit in cars like the S2000 and Solstice.

[Mechie3]

Also, the side is protected much better.

Did he say how much side protection was in the doors of the S?


Not to derail the thread, but the H6 isn't the greatest choice. the ej2xx are great motors and can easily produce the 280-320hp you want (crank or wheel?).

I agree with this. The 2.5L has much better aftermarket support and can easily outrun the H6.

[bobzdar]

I was not a fan of the originally released renderings, especially the front of the car. However, I think a big portion of it is those lights with the huge reflectors in them aging it. Just getting rid of those for some HIDs and blacking out the front from brake vent to brake vent transforms the look of the car. It looks pretty good. Rear looks like an f355 down to the vent on the hood (especially the R version, looks like a 355 challenge), but that's one of my favorite cars so no problem with that. I've been designing my own bike engined car, but may have to give this another serious look.

[Mechie3]

Dave H, thatnks for the pics! Any change to get more pics of the inner workings of the go kart?

Does anyone know if you can (safely) wrap harness around square tubing?

[WonderDude]

Only took one pic today.

http://i.imgur.com/DBjsV.jpg

One major problem I'm having with the styling of this street version of the car is the black bar that's covering the rear driver's side wheel. I think they should have painted that red. ;)

[Turboguy]

I agree with this. The 2.5L has much better aftermarket support and can easily outrun the H6.

The 2.5 might have better aftermarket support, but I wouldn't say it will outrun an H6. Ever.


Are you familiar with the STi Perrin built for SEMA 2005? Stuffed in the new H6 and turbo charged it.

467 wheel HP @ 16 psi
601 wheel HP @ 24 psi

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-h6-build-up/

[bbjones121]

Only took one pic today.

http://i.imgur.com/DBjsV.jpg

Found my new favorite seats. They are the red ones in the background of this photo. Any info on them?

[VD2021]

LOL the first think I see when I look at that picture, is it needs to be 1" lower and at least a 1" spacers.

Yeah, and enough (front and rear) to set up a nice rake.

[Zodiac]

they are mastercraft seats but i can't find them on their website. must be a new model.

[mug23]

The 2.5 might have better aftermarket support, but I wouldn't say it will outrun an H6. Ever.


Are you familiar with the STi Perrin built for SEMA 2005? Stuffed in the new H6 and turbo charged it.

467 wheel HP @ 16 psi
601 wheel HP @ 24 psi

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-h6-build-up/

Have you though about the EG33 motor out of the SVX? They are very sweet motors and if build properly and open up the exhaust, they sounds very very nice.

Here's a sound clip of the EG33 motor with headers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOuoQgoNtw

[Matty_STi]

The 2.5 might have better aftermarket support, but I wouldn't say it will outrun an H6. Ever.


Are you familiar with the STi Perrin built for SEMA 2005? Stuffed in the new H6 and turbo charged it.

467 wheel HP @ 16 psi
601 wheel HP @ 24 psi

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-h6-build-up/

You do realize how ground breaking that build was and how fly by the pants it was and how little they knew about the engine? If H6 builds were easy guys like 3mi and jr. would be doing them for their crazy hp builds.

[TCL1999]

Have you though about the EG33 motor out of the SVX? They are very sweet motors and if build properly and open up the exhaust, they sounds very very nice.

Here's a sound clip of the EG33 motor with headers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOuoQgoNtw

Wow, that does sound nice. Although, if you're going H6, wouldn't you want a Boxster S motor? That is the sound I want to hear from a six. If not, give me the WRX flat-4 rumble any day.

[rjh2pd]

The Porsche would be much more expensive. Iirc you can't mount any Subie manual transmissions To the svx engine. Please correct me if in wrong

[Mechie3]

The 2.5 might have better aftermarket support, but I wouldn't say it will outrun an H6. Ever.


Are you familiar with the STi Perrin built for SEMA 2005? Stuffed in the new H6 and turbo charged it.

467 wheel HP @ 16 psi
601 wheel HP @ 24 psi

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-h6-build-up/

I meant if you didn't turbo it as the rods/pistons weren't made to be turbo'd. Most H6's that get stuffed into older GC chassis aren't turbo'd or superchaged.

I watched the progress of that car. Last I heard (a couple years ago now) it had been sold to some guy and it still wasn't running right and was a wiring nightmare. IIRc, they also had the motor in and out of the car often to fix things or replace things that should have been done in the first place. Granted, if you copy that, it can be done right the first time, but it still adds quite a bit of cost.


Have you though about the EG33 motor out of the SVX? They are very sweet motors and if build properly and open up the exhaust, they sounds very very nice.


I wouldn't go with an SVX motor. They're too old with very little aftermarket. My buddy had two: a white manual 5 speed and a silver supercharged 6 speed. Both transmissions were swapped in with all of the supporting hardware (most of it custom). He loved the SVX more than anyone but eventually sold both. he had to replace a motor in the white one and the scarcity of parts for them turned him off. Plus, the blue book value was pennies compared to the resale value. If they got totaled, he'd be out $10k.

[TCL1999]

The Porsche would be much more expensive. Iirc you can't mount any Subie manual transmissions To the svx engine. Please correct me if in wrong

Yeah, I'm not advocating a boxster motor, I'm just saying it sounds better to me than subaru H6s. I personally don't see the appeal of an H6 over the WRX EJ20/EJ25 at all. You can spot a WRX by ear from a mile away. Love that sound.

[Turboguy]

Yeah, I'm not advocating a boxster motor, I'm just saying it sounds better to me than subaru H6s. I personally don't see the appeal of an H6 over the WRX EJ20/EJ25 at all. You can spot a WRX by ear from a mile away. Love that sound.

Actually it depends on the exhaust configuration. Running the same exhaust, they sound almost identical. It's becoming a more common swap into 911's with blown motors.


The SVX EG33 is definitely on my radar! Thanks for sharing the vid above!

What I don't know is if the dimensions will allow it to be an easy fit or not? Anyone know? The new 3.0 H-6 is only 3/4" longer than the 2.5L turbo motor so will present minimal problems. Also, does it have the same bolt pattern as the 5-speed WRX transmissions?




I watched the progress of that car. Last I heard (a couple years ago now) it had been sold to some guy and it still wasn't running right and was a wiring nightmare. IIRc, they also had the motor in and out of the car often to fix things or replace things that should have been done in the first place....


I'm pretty sure you're way off base here. I read recently that car is still Jeff Perrin's daily driver. The engine rebuild on the final motor was required due to machine shop error in assembling it, which is pretty clearly spelled out if you read through the blog post I linked to above.

He also intentionally tried to nuke the original build (while waiting on new sleeves and rods that had a long lead-time) to understand the engine's limits BEFORE selling it to customers. They have done several of these swaps into customer cars, although they are not cheap.


A low-pressure turbo solution running under 10psi of boost would not require changes to any engine internals and present a much lower cost solution. It should generate over 350HP easy, too.



I wouldn't go with an SVX motor. They're too old with very little aftermarket. My buddy had two: a white manual 5 speed and a silver supercharged 6 speed. Both transmissions were swapped in with all of the supporting hardware (most of it custom). He loved the SVX more than anyone but eventually sold both. he had to replace a motor in the white one and the scarcity of parts for them turned him off. Plus, the blue book value was pennies compared to the resale value. If they got totaled, he'd be out $10k.


We're talking about using an SVX ENGINE dude -not the whole car- so we really don't care about depreciation, market appeal or parts availability for the car itself.

Race cams, valve springs, pistons, con rods -- all are available for that engine. What more do I need that I can't fabricate up myself?


Is it the easy route? NOPE. Absolutely 100% not. For sure a 2.5L turbo STi motor is the easier path to 300HP, 400HP - even 500HP.


BUT those solutions will not give me the sound of a flat-6. Plain and simply, I have fallen in love with the sound of a 911 at full song. THAT is why I'm looking at going this route.


I would LOVE to hear an exotic sounding Subie flat-4, but haven't yet. If anyone has come across a setup I would LOVE to hear it in case it presents an alternative for me, but that would be better in a fresh thread so we don't hi-jack this one any more.

[Mechie3]

I'm pretty sure you're way off base here. I read recently that car is still Jeff Perrin's daily driver. The engine rebuild it required was due to machine shop error, which is pretty clearly spelled out if you read through the blog post I linked to above.


We're talking about using an SVX ENGINE dude -not the whole car- so we really don't care about depreciation, market appeal or parts availability for the car itself.


I'll try and find the link I was talking about. Perhaps it was a customer car they swapped into. Either way, there was a turbo H6 STI with issues that took a long time to solve.

I understand you're talking about the SVX engine. It'd be much better to source the newer H6's, was my point. I simply gave the anecdote about depreciation of the car as 1 reason why he sold it. Scarcity of parts (motor, chassis, suspension, etc) was the other reason. Too many things on that car/motor were 1 off's, where Subaru's other platforms share many many parts (or common mounting points).

[cyderus]

that does sound pretty dam good

[Turboguy]

911 with a Subaru flat-6:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cVMmJKyLg

ok....now let's get back to the SEMA drool-fest......

[WonderDude]

911 with a Subaru flat-6:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cVMmJKyLg

ok....now let's get back to the SEMA drool-fest......

WOW! I really like the sound of that Subi-flat-6

[Mechie3]

I'm pretty sure you're way off base here. I read recently that car is still Jeff Perrin's daily driver.

The internet at work is ungodly slow today (it took 10 minutes just to load this quote). I can't find the new owner, but I did confirm in a post from Jeff Perrin that he sold the H6T STI back in 2007.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19886456&postcount=18


As far as sound, I think we'd be better off looking up sound clips from Subi swapped 914's. The catback alone changes the sound so much on a standard WRX that having an even shorter exhaust on the 818 isn't likely to sound similar.

[STeeL25T]

The Porsche would be much more expensive. Iirc you can't mount any Subie manual transmissions To the svx engine. Please correct me if in wrong

Pretty much any Subaru transmission will bolt to any Subaru motor. I personally own an SVX with a 05 Saab 9-2X Aero 5 speed transmission (aka WRX), the only thing I had to modify is to tap one existing hole on the block because the starters mount differently.

For a little while I also had a caged stripped out rally SVX I bought built that used an 2.5 RS transmission. Not even sure how because it was my understanding those use a different kind of clutch setup, but it worked haha.

[PhyrraM]

..... Not even sure how because it was my understanding those use a different kind of clutch setup, but it worked haha.

The rule with Subarus is that the flywheel and clutch match the transmission, regardless of engine choice. All Subaru flywheels are zero ballanced, so there are no gotchas when swapping them around - not even when going from H4 to H6.

[Desertrunner]

I own 5 SVX, road cars & race cars, also have 9 spare engine for development. The EG33 SVX engine was the thoughest engine Subaru ever built. Given there age they can be picked up cheap now. As a result a lot of guys here in Australia are fitting them to other Subaru's and adding a turbo. At hi rev they will cook unless a small mod is made to the water pump. We have just finished developing a 5 stage dry sump pump for a NA engine that we want to be able to run at 10,000rpm. My friend has a SVX engine in a imprezza and he holds the track lap record for any Subaru. When you conside that is against STI's and what ever.
Might be a old engine but they still have years left in project & race cars.
Now to figure out how to get one in a 818.

TOny

[mug23]

Wouldn't the NA EG33 or EZ30 motors without all the turbo plumbing would be less complex and more reliable? I'm sure the weight will be very close to one another. This EG33 idea is getting into my head. Just to need to find out how or if possible to be mounted into the 818.

If all possible, I would rather have a NA motor with better throttle response and perhaps flatter torque and power curve. One last thing, much cheaper to operate.

[Vman7]

I have a teaser coming up. While I am waiting for some good pics, I thought I would play around with some stuff for possible future mod.s or maybe even FFR upgrades as the 818 develops as the GTM has done.

This would be an somewhat easy mod., since it would use the existing body panel shape.

Let's just say "how about a hot sexy rear".......lol

I'll start a new thread when ready.

David

[timmy318]

I have a teaser coming up. While I am waiting for some good pics, I thought I would play around with some stuff for possible future mod.s or maybe even FFR upgrades as the 818 develops as the GTM has done.

This would be an somewhat easy mod., since it would use the existing body panel shape.

Let's just say "how about a hot sexy rear".......lol

I'll start a new thread when ready.

David

Now??????? :p

[Mechie3]

When you conside that is against STI's and what ever.
TOny

Does australia get the 2.5 STI or the 2.0 like Japan? Having had both, I much much prefer the 2.5 with AVCS.


Wouldn't the NA EG33 or EZ30 motors without all the turbo plumbing would be less complex and more reliable? I'm sure the weight will be very close to one another. This EG33 idea is getting into my head. Just to need to find out how or if possible to be mounted into the 818.

If all possible, I would rather have a NA motor with better throttle response and perhaps flatter torque and power curve. One last thing, much cheaper to operate.

You should find a 3.6L Subaru motor. :devil:


This would be an somewhat easy mod., since it would use the existing body panel shape.
David

Well, we've got nothing else to talk about right now.... Plus, I like easy mods. I'm not a body work expert so easy is good.

[slopoke]

I think anyone who wants to try to shoehorn an EG33 will be disappointed as I believe it to be quite a bit longer than the newer EZ30 and EZ36. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) The newer ones are almost the same exterior length as the 2.5 motors. I was thinking more along the lines of a EZ36 with a supercharger and equal length headers ... that should push it upwards of 325hp ... plenty of giddyup for this old fart

[slopoke]

I have a teaser coming up. While I am waiting for some good pics, I thought I would play around with some stuff for possible future mod.s or maybe even FFR upgrades as the 818 develops as the GTM has done.

This would be an somewhat easy mod., since it would use the existing body panel shape.

Let's just say "how about a hot sexy rear".......lol

I'll start a new thread when ready.

David

Hey Dave ... how about a coupe version with gullwing doors? (for us REAL wookies)

[Vman7]

Hey Dave ... how about a coupe version with gullwing doors? (for us REAL wookies)

A bunch of us were just talking about that in FFR-ADV's thread, 818ST for 818 Targa Photo Edits http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8022-818ST-for-818-Targa-Photo-Edits

[wallace18]

Could you guys talking about the H6 start your own thread. This thread is for SEMA stuff. Thanks.

[Mechie3]

No one is posting any SEMA stuff......

[wallace18]

I am sorry. I guess I thought the reason for differant threads was so If you were not interested in certain stuff you did not have to go through various posts not pertaining to the topic. I guess I am wrong, sorry to impose.

[Mechie3]

Oh no, I didn't mean it that way. It was more of a "hey! Where's everyone that went to SEMA?? ". Not a "let us do whatever" comment.

[FFR-ADV]

I have a teaser coming up. While I am waiting for some good pics, I thought I would play around with some stuff for possible future mod.s or maybe even FFR upgrades as the 818 develops as the GTM has done.

This would be an somewhat easy mod., since it would use the existing body panel shape.

Let's just say "how about a hot sexy rear".......lol

I'll start a new thread when ready.

David

Hi Vman,

I am really looking forward to seeing this!

Steve

[RSxx]

Hello everyone,

I have been a ghost follower of this forum ever since the 818 was announced. I have been following factory five for around 7 yrs at least and was saving for the roadster. I even bought the manual. I came very close to ordering it when I found out about the 818 project. Needless to say I wanted one right that instant and decided against the roadster.

I must admit a coupe version would be more appealing but by reading most of the posts, I am sure a reasonable soft top, removable hard top or any other solutions will developed by this great following of talented and passionate crowd.

Long story short, I caved in a placed my pre-order. I couldn't wait any longer. If you all could see my happy face. Of course all this with the permission of the very soon to be my future wife. Now, I need find a place to build it.

This will be great project to do with my father, who I should thank for installing in me the build it yourself mentality. He help/taught me how to change 2 engines on my first car. After that, I help my father embarked in building his very own kit airplane (RV-6).

I have a couple of questions maybe someone from the team could answer.
1) how many pre orders so far?
2) was is the estimated build hours for the 818?

Finally, I would like to thank Dave Smith for his passion, dedication and vision. I don't doubt for a second that he and everyone at Factory Five put 120% in their work and the 818 project will be amazing.

That is all for now and looking forward to the build. I am sure I will be posting more from now on.

RSxx.

[Turboguy]

....also have 9 spare engine for development.........
Now to figure out how to get one in a 818.

Hello, Tony!!

Do you have any idea on the EG33's dimensions compared to Subaru's recent 2.5L turbos or the newer 3.0 H6? Even some side-by-side pics to start would help us move in the right direction.


Is there any reading you can point me to that will get me up to speed on this motor faster?

[Mechie3]

There's another thread that shows an unofficial list of all of the preorders.

[C.Tree]

Did anyone take pics of the 818 frame at SEMA especially the twin turbo engine

[Turboguy]

Could you guys talking about the H6 start your own thread. This thread is for SEMA stuff. Thanks.

Done!


A great point by Wallace. I didn't intend to hi-jack the thread, but sometimes in our excitement we go astray.


SO, given that there appears to be several of us interested in at least investigating this option, I move that we move all discussion related to flat-6 installations to this thread:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?8034-The-OFFICIAL-H-6-into-an-FFR-818-thread

[riptide motorsport]

Wow Wallace.....have a drink, relax and Enjoy the conversation.

[flynntuna]

On the 818R gallery on the FFR website the rear diffuser appears to be fabricated in house. Would the 818 R or S benefit from a belly pan under the engine?

[David Hodgkins]

Here's a new pic I took today:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12872&d=1351732635

I have a new SEMA album with close to 275 pics in it. You can see lots of new 818 pics here:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

Does this guy look proud, or what? Justifiably so, I'd say!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12871&d=1351732634

:)

[Benji]

I really wasn't a fan of the looks of this car at all but I today I finally saw it and honestly, aside from a few thinngs that (in my opinion) need addressing this car is actually quite good looking indeed, I have to admit, I'm a bit of a convert.

I could point out a hand full of tweaks that I'd personally do to the existing design that I personally think would make it even better looking without making any huge design changes.

You know the biggest problem I had with the 818S? THAT GREY Roadster sitting a few feet away from it... Sure it's an apples and oranges comparision but it IS achingly beautiful...

[Benji]

Oh and personally, it looked to me that there would be room for an H6...

LOOKED being the word.... I'll try and get some more pics tomorrow.

By the way, I sat in the bare chassis (what should be an 818S), I'm 5'8" but I have tiiiiinnnnyyyy little legs (I get a 28 inch leg pair of trousers) and the rest is torso, I fit fine with a good few inches spare between the top of my head and the top of the roll bar with those stock Subaru seats. Don't let my height decieve you, I have a torso as long as most of my six foot plus friends and when you are sitting down, we often are the same height.

[Movieman]

Here's a new pic I took today:
Does this guy look proud, or what? Justifiably so, I'd say!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12871&d=1351732634

:)

I look at this picture with Dave Smith standing with that smile beside the 818R and wonder if he realises what he and his crew have accomplished and then I think, these guys have done this all before, many times.. really amazing when you think about it..

[smoove7410]

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1092.jpg

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1094.jpg

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1095.jpg

[Mechie3]

By the way, I sat in the bare chassis (what should be an 818S), ...few inches spare between the top of my head and the top of the roll bar with those stock Subaru seats.

Unfortunately, those aren't the stock Subaru seats. They're aftermarket fixed buckets. I was noticing that yesterday. Check where the shoulders are relative to the bar behind it on the go kart vs on the red S (with the stock Subaru TR seats). I think the go kart seats sit a bit lower.

Look at where the braces meet the crossbar/harness bar. It looks to be quite a bit lower than the rear of the shoulders of the seat.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12713&d=1351656270

Here, the seats look just slightly over the top of the harness bar.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12717&d=1351656276

In this image, you can see how the seat and the S rollbar (as it currently is, may change for production) is outside of the rollbar.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u160/awalla5150/DSCN1738.jpg


I can't find the image I'm looking for the go kart that shows the height of those seats well.

[Nuul]

Does australia get the 2.5 STI or the 2.0 like Japan? Having had both, I much much prefer the 2.5 with AVCS.

Japan has both the 2.0 and the 2.5 for the STI. The 2.5 comes in the A-Line STI and it's not twin scroll like the 2.0.

http://www.subaru.jp/wrxsti/wrxsti/spec/pdf/equipment.pdf

[Mad Dog]

Here's a new video about the 818 that we just posted.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGLX4HpMZsA

[Oppenheimer]

Unfortunately, those aren't the stock Subaru seats.

So this brings up a way you can 'test sit' the 818S with stock subie seats, even if you can't get near the only 818S on the planet yet (for headroom). Go find an '06 WRX (or whichever other models used the same seats), and see how far up past the seat the top of your head goes. Then compare to these pics, and you can get a rough feel for how much headroom you'd have.

[Mechie3]

I can't remember how high my head was on my 06 seats (and I've sold the seats). I can check my 02 later.

Here's a screenshot from the video showing the go kart seats being fully under the bar.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/mechie3/gokartseat.png

Here's the shot I meant to post earlier where the stock seats look outside of the roll bar in a horizontal position. Granted, the angle is skewed slightly, but most pics look like this.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12738&d=1351656315

Here's one of Dave's pics showing the non stock seats:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12932&d=1351732737

[VD2021]

OK, sorry for the delay.

This first of 4(!) shots shows Jason in the cockpit, from the side. Notice how low he. That's good for me!:
http://ffroadster.com/images/818/Spyshot818R-3.jpg

How tall is Jason?

How far up, from the floor, does this seat position his bottom from the floor?

I'm trying to get a feel for head clearance once a top comes into play.

The GTM has a ~42" roof at a ~4.5” ride height (~37.5”). The seats are on the floor and position you only ~1"or so off the floor. I'm just shy of 5'11" and I only have ~1.75" of head clearance.

I'd really like to see Jason sitting in the street version (it has donor seats, right?) to compare.


**The seats in the Kart are GTM seats.

[Justen]

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1092.jpg

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1094.jpg

http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2012/SEMA/Day2/images/IMG_1095.jpg

I don't think you have enough posts to show pics yet, lets see if this works if i reply with quote

edit: nope
on a side note, I pre-ordered my kit today!

[Mechie3]

How tall is Jason?
How far up, from the floor, does this seat position his bottom from the floor?

I'm trying to get a feel for head clearance once a top comes into play.


I think the rollbar is different on the R and the S. Not sure the R will have a top optional witout retroffiting as it's intended to be a spec racer.


I don't think you have enough posts to show pics yet, lets see if this works if i reply with quote

edit: nope
on a side note, I pre-ordered my kit today!

Pics worked for me both times. They must be on a server blocked at your work place (assuming you're at work).

[WIS89]

Sorry, I just had to add this.... This car is just all kinds of sexy!!

Each of my two boys could be very, very happy in one of these! I would love to build one with each of them. However, they have to help me build my MKIV FIRST!! Ha!

It looks like the early returns suggest the car is going to be very popular. I am not at all surprised. Great work producing an amazing car at a shocking price point that may just turn the market on its head!!

Well done y'all. Enjoy all the rewards before all the orders start needing to get filled... ;-o) what an exciting time!!

Regards,

Steve

[Mechie3]

It would be cool if someone at SEMA held a camera inside the R and the S at head height and took a pic of the view from the drivers seat!

[DrieStone]

I am actually pleasntly surprised with the look. The rear end looks better than any design competition submission I had hoped to see in the production version. The very front of the car could be a bit more aggressive looking when the front spoiler isn't attached but no worries, the thing looks a whole lot like Xabier's design but with a far better looking rear end.

Agreed, it's the rear end, and even the profile that is winning me over. My problem is that I see a pic of the front 3/4 and it loses me again. I want to love this car so much, but I can't... at least not in photos. I know the reaction will be different in person, and ultimately that's what will sell me.


Having been present and active through the entire design competition process and getting emotionally attached to so many designs I think it's easy to be judgmental of what FFR has produced here. However, objectively speaking this is quite possibly the best designed initial release of any car FFR has produced including their replicas.

I also can't disagree here. I'm trying hard to not sound negative because I know this is one opinion that differs from the majority (and my opinion is not really negative, just a mixed emotion). As a Lotus lover, and someone who holds the Exige as the high-water mark, the 818 doesn't make it. Granted I realize it's unfair to compare the two cars (different budgets, experience, etc).

I've showed the SEMA pics to a few people and the response is "Looks like an S2000" or "Looks like an MR2". The fact is, the 818 is a huge accomplishment. Technically from the way it was designed, to the technology used to produce the panels, it is cutting-edge. For a very reasonable cost you get an amazing car. On paper this car is exactly what I want, it always has been, but I want it to look exotic like a Lotus, not sporty like a Honda.

As a disclaimer I've always hated Honda's designs. I dislike the S2000 and I think the NSX is pretty ugly, maybe that's pretty telling. I certainly don't want to take anything away from the huge milestone of FFR or frankly the fact that this car exists as it stands today. I said it earlier, I know that FFR has a hit on their hands and that means good things for 818's future. I can't wait to see where it all goes. I have a feeling there's still an 818 in my future.

[thane]

So this brings up a way you can 'test sit' the 818S with stock subie seats, even if you can't get near the only 818S on the planet yet (for headroom). Go find an '06 WRX (or whichever other models used the same seats), and see how far up past the seat the top of your head goes. Then compare to these pics, and you can get a rough feel for how much headroom you'd have.

I'm 5'9", and I drive an '06 WRX Wagon. The top of my head comes right about to the top of the headrest on the stock seat... depending on how much I slouch.

thane

[Mechie3]

Just thought of something else (while reading a write up of a daytona F430 build), can someone take a picture of the underside of the cars? Wonder if they're flat, where they're open, and if there are tunnels built in.

[thane]

One of the many things I love about this car is how tiny it is! As I ponder the R's cage vs. the S's more standard set up, I realize that opening the doors on this car is never really necessary. It's a step in. Like a loafer!

thane

[wallace18]

Could someone get a photo from the back straight on of the S? We have one of the R but I need a full rear photo of the S to help me with ideas for customization. Thanks.

[JayStockE30]

Agreed, it's the rear end, and even the profile that is winning me over. My problem is that I see a pic of the front 3/4 and it loses me again. I want to love this car so much, but I can't... at least not in photos. I know the reaction will be different in person, and ultimately that's what will sell me.



I also can't disagree here. I'm trying hard to not sound negative because I know this is one opinion that differs from the majority (and my opinion is not really negative, just a mixed emotion). As a Lotus lover, and someone who holds the Exige as the high-water mark, the 818 doesn't make it. Granted I realize it's unfair to compare the two cars (different budgets, experience, etc).

I've showed the SEMA pics to a few people and the response is "Looks like an S2000" or "Looks like an MR2". The fact is, the 818 is a huge accomplishment. Technically from the way it was designed, to the technology used to produce the panels, it is cutting-edge. For a very reasonable cost you get an amazing car. On paper this car is exactly what I want, it always has been, but I want it to look exotic like a Lotus, not sporty like a Honda.

I have heard several people say that it looks like an s2000, and I just cannot see it. An s2000 has a very long hood, and the nose looks nothing like the 818. In my opinion that is like saying that a Hippopotamus look like an Elephant. If by saying they both look alike you mean they are both large and grey, than yes I agree with you. All that being said there are a few minor details that I do not like, but I find that that is the case with most cars. Remember this is a prototype, and a $15000 car, I cannot think of any car that costs 2x + as much that I would want to have half as much. I am excited to see how the next few builds look. Personally I can't wait to see the car in person.

[bobzdar]

Agreed, it's the rear end, and even the profile that is winning me over. My problem is that I see a pic of the front 3/4 and it loses me again. I want to love this car so much, but I can't... at least not in photos. I know the reaction will be different in person, and ultimately that's what will sell me.



I also can't disagree here. I'm trying hard to not sound negative because I know this is one opinion that differs from the majority (and my opinion is not really negative, just a mixed emotion). As a Lotus lover, and someone who holds the Exige as the high-water mark, the 818 doesn't make it. Granted I realize it's unfair to compare the two cars (different budgets, experience, etc).

I've showed the SEMA pics to a few people and the response is "Looks like an S2000" or "Looks like an MR2". The fact is, the 818 is a huge accomplishment. Technically from the way it was designed, to the technology used to produce the panels, it is cutting-edge. For a very reasonable cost you get an amazing car. On paper this car is exactly what I want, it always has been, but I want it to look exotic like a Lotus, not sporty like a Honda.

As a disclaimer I've always hated Honda's designs. I dislike the S2000 and I think the NSX is pretty ugly, maybe that's pretty telling. I certainly don't want to take anything away from the huge milestone of FFR or frankly the fact that this car exists as it stands today. I said it earlier, I know that FFR has a hit on their hands and that means good things for 818's future. I can't wait to see where it all goes. I have a feeling there's still an 818 in my future.

I'm with you on the front. But, I did a little photo shop manipulation and merely blacking out the whole front grill area (from brake duct to brake duct) and getting rid of the lights makes a huge difference. The huge reflectors in the lights are a major turn off, but there are aftermarket HID's available that get rid of that issue. Making those 2 changes (which require no fiberglass work) improve it a good amount and would go well with a 'challenge' style rear grill from the 818R.

The rear looks good.

[Oppenheimer]

As a Lotus lover, and someone who holds the Exige as the high-water mark, the 818 doesn't make it. Granted I realize it's unfair to compare the two cars (different budgets, experience, etc).

I've showed the SEMA pics to a few people and the response is "Looks like an S2000" or "Looks like an MR2". The fact is, the 818 is a huge accomplishment. Technically from the way it was designed, to the technology used to produce the panels, it is cutting-edge. For a very reasonable cost you get an amazing car. On paper this car is exactly what I want, it always has been, but I want it to look exotic like a Lotus, not sporty like a Honda.

As a disclaimer I've always hated Honda's designs. I dislike the S2000 and I think the NSX is pretty ugly, maybe that's pretty telling.

I own an S2000. I didn't buy it for its looks. Thankfully, it doesn't look hideous or off putting (to me, nor to most others), which is enough for me. I really respect the Elise and Exige, but again, not so much for their looks, but rather, for what they are under the skin. Thankfully, they look OK too.

By this measure, of what the car is on the inside, for the budget concious (which is what the 818 is all about), the 818 is more than anyone could ever ask for. Its gonna hang with the Elise and Exige in every measurable performance category, but at a much lower price of entry.

That it looks pretty damn nice is just icing on the Death-by-Chocolate cake. That its on the edge of HoF is just mind blowing.

[Mechie3]

I think than from the side the R looks like a chopped S2k to the casual observer or at least the closest thing they see on a daily basis.

I still think it looks most like a Boxster spyder from a side view, though the rear is very lotus elise-ish and the front view doesn't remind me much of anything.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12872&d=1351732635

http://www.carcollery.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/2010-Porsche-Boxster-Spyder-Side-Angle-View.jpg

[kyle stewart]

My new favorite picture.
12959

[shim2]

Is it just me or does the rear wheel well not sit even with the wheel?

[JayStockE30]

My new favorite picture.
12959

:D That will be a comon problem with 818 owners. I wonder if we can adopt the 818r's fire system to put those out.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes "...We came out of the last corner at Mach 2 with our hair on fire". In fact I think I will go update my sig.

[JayStockE30]

Is it just me or does the rear wheel well not sit even with the wheel?

Maybe it has to do with the way that the suspension compresses...? Looked at some pictures and it looked more centered when the wheel was at full droop.

[timmy318]

:D That will be a common problem with 818 owners. I wonder if we can adopt the 818r's fire system to put those out.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes "...We came out of the last corner at Mach 2 with our hair on fire". In fact I think I will go update my sig.

Lol, never noticed his hair till you started to talk about a fire suppression system :p!

[Mike N]

Is it just me or does the rear wheel well not sit even with the wheel?

Looking at the side view of the 818S above the rear wheel does look to be too far forward relative to the body opening. That bothered me too.

[timmy318]

Looking at the side view of the 818S above the rear wheel does look to be too far forward relative to the body opening. That bothered me too.

Remember people, Dave and Jim both stated that they had to hurry to get these cars ready for SEMA so expect some slight changes. Hopefully they'll fix those wheels!!

[shim2]

That's good, just thought my eyes were playing tricks on me. I can't see how they won't fix that in the next 8 months.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

12961 Best shot out of my camera

[Xusia]

THAT's a sweet photo!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

13040

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCuiZII2L7c

[wallace18]

Check out Davids new photos in general discussions. Looks like possible color choices for the body of the 818. Just a guess on my part. Looks interesting though. Page 3.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

[NonProfit]

Looks like possible color choices for the body of the 818. Just a guess on my part.

I think those are maxi pads.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445&attachmentid=12968

[Bob_n_Cincy]

1304213041

[Mechie3]

I think those are demos of the new line of Sherwin Williams paints dave mentioned previously.

[flynntuna]

My thoughts too

[Bob_n_Cincy]

13043
Just thought of something else (while reading a write up of a daytona F430 build), can someone take a picture of the underside of the cars? Wonder if they're flat, where they're open, and if there are tunnels built in.

This is the best underside shot I have. I never thought of just picing it up. It's not that heavy.

[fitn in]

Spent yesterday at the show and most of that time drooling, sitting, staring, planning, imagining, talking (nice to meet Dave briefly and big Dave) and dreaming. What a great day and a great car!

[Desertrunner]

A question guys if I want to pull the gearbox and engine does it come out through the bottom or top?
Tony

[Silvertop]

A question guys if I want to pull the gearbox and engine does it come out through the bottom or top?
Tony

My guess is that it will come out through the top -- probably after removal of one or more body panels. But that's what it is -- just a guess. One of the FFR guys might know the answer. ........... But until we see an 818 manual, or get a really good look at the naked car -- the rest of us are just speculating.

[Mechie3]

Bob, how was the feel of the go kart you sat in?

[VD2021]

For the "S".

Are there hinge systems for the hood and hatch or are they designed as unlatch and remove panels.

If ther are/will be hinges, how does the hatch open?

[Zodiac]

Check out Davids new photos in general discussions. Looks like possible color choices for the body of the 818. Just a guess on my part. Looks interesting though. Page 3.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=445

ohhh nice. I think I'll be going for FFR color 15 with number 13 being a close second

[Mechie3]

ohhh nice. I think I'll be going for FFR color 15 with number 13 being a close second

Found the quote from Dave supporting my comment that I think these are Sherwin Williams PAINTS not the body colors of the 818. A lot of paint companies use those odd compound curve shapes to show off paint samples as it gives a good indicator of how it looks on a car vs a flat paint chip. Not to say I don't hope they offer those colors in paintless panels, but for now I don't think they are truly representative of the 818 colors available at launch, just official FFR paint colors that they support.


Both 818s at SEMA (the blue/white R and the red S) were painted with a brand-new line of paints developed with Sherwin Williams for Factory Five Racing. We will be publishing and promoting these colors but ONE of the reasons that I decided to paint both cars was to promote these new official colors.



EDIT: Found another pic with a Sherwin Williams sign next to the display. I wish I knew what the TV said. Two shots say something like "FFR, world leader of roadster and coupe replicas...." then a missing screen, then "Did just that". I want to know what the middle screen says (no pics of it).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12976&d=1351813362

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, how was the feel of the go kart you sat in?

First let me embarrass myself. I am 6' 290#. At the show they were not planning on have people sit in the gokart. So they temporarily had a seat out of the GTM in it. It's more of a reclining seat that moved my butt forward. As such my knees were bent a little more than I like. I was assured by the larger FFR personnel that a big 6'3" would have no issues. The stock Subaru steering wheel that was in it did have tilt wheel. I don't know if the make on that is telescoping.
Bob

[LS1RX7owen]

Is it just me or does the rear wheel well not sit even with the wheel?that has me a little nervous...
anyone familiar with an LS1 FC RX7 will know that the rear wheels like to move forward during a standing launch and in those cars they notoriously eat at the fenders towards the door area when you run wide tires out back.

I hope there is room for movement, if anything they would be better off looking offcenter towards the rear instead of the front, functionally at least.

[WonderDude]

that has me a little nervous...
anyone familiar with an LS1 FC RX7 will know that the rear wheels like to move forward during a standing launch and in those cars they notoriously eat at the fenders towards the door area when you run wide tires out back.

I hope there is room for movement, if anything they would be better off looking offcenter towards the rear instead of the front, functionally at least.

It's a concept. ;) I'm sure by the time it goes to production they will have worked out issues like that.

[FFR-ADV]

There is a new 818 interview with Dave and Jim from the 2012 SEMA show with Power Automedia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1voMV-W6ztw

Cheers!

[FFR-ADV]

By the way congratulations to Dave and Jim and the whole Factory Five Team. WELL DONE!!!

Your time in the spotlight is well deserved!

I am looking forward to my 818 build next year!

Cheers!

Steve

[riptide motorsport]

this is all to cool and exciting!

[Zodiac]

very very nice. congrats to everyone at FFR and same here I can't wait to start my build next year as well.

[timmy318]

Very glad I pre-ordered my 818 early on! This is going to be huge!!!! Congrats to the Dave, FFR and just our whole community on making this project a reality!

[Highway Star]

Great video.

But come on guys! Youtube shows it as having one like and one dislike! I think we can correct this travesty.

[tcarlson]

Wow! Fantastic cars! Outstanding effort to be ready for the show too!

[Benji]

Hey I'd have Dave's grin if I was standing next to her as well...

Speaking of which David Hodgkins give me a bit of a poke for being an *** on this forum and thought I was afraid to show my face so this one is for you Dave with one of the many MANY beautiful SEMA girls:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/benjispics/DSCN7647960x1280.jpg

[Flamshackle]

Great video, well done Dave, Jim and FFR team!

I am literally itching to see one of these in my country!

[bstuke]

Congrats Dave and the rest of the FFR team!

[AZPete]

Wow: "The SEMA booth with the most eye candy." "One of the most crowded booths at SEMA."
Congrats to everyone at Factory Five!
I've reserved a production slot and can't wait to start my 818S build.
Pete

[Benji]

Yep, the most eye candy and we're not talking SEMA girls.... all I'm going to say is DAT ROADSTER...

Otherwise the Hankook girls and one other booth had the prettiest girls I ever saw...

[thestigwins]

I spent quite of bit of time in the FFR booth on friday and was blown away by a few things. I think the 818S looks much better in person than it does it photos but I can't figure out why. I have to admit that the main reason I went to SEMA this year was to look at the 818. The booth was always packed and I noticed a few familiar faces (Dave Smith, Jim, David Hodgkins). I planned to introduce myself but found that it was probably more important to let them discuss the cars with people who didn't already know everything they needed to know about the project. I must have spent a good 30 minutes discussing the car and the kit and helping educate people on what the kit came with and what kind of donor was needed. The response that I heard was mostly (how can they sell this so cheap) and that is the one question I didn't have the answer for. I am posting a link to a few pictures that I took of the 818s,818R and 818 chasis. After all was said and done I left SEMA totally impressed with what FFR has been able to accomplish in such a short amount of time. The only issue I found with the whole ordeal is that I happened to glance over at the roadster on display and had my heart stolen. As much as I love the 818 I think my heart is now with the roadster.

Grant

Link to a few pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/89604644@N07/

[Benji]

I think the 818S looks much better in person than it does it photos but I can't figure out why.


The only issue I found with the whole ordeal is that I happened to glance over at the roadster on display and had my heart stolen. As much as I love the 818 I think my heart is now with the roadster.

THIS. You've pretty much said the exact same two things I felt and also said.

Aside from a few niggles (which will hopefully be resolved since this was a SEMA effort), it looked like it would fit right in a line up of a Toyota MR-S (3rd Gen MR2), an MX5 and an S2000. Aside from possibly the rear and a slightly too busy front end it certainly had production car aspirations with the simplicity of cars from around the 1999-20003 mark. Of course this is all only my opinion.

But I too kept on thinking.... that roadster! It was so ACHINGLY beautiful that I kept finding myself looking over too it, also right on the money with the grey paint that I know I'd have mine in (albeit black stripes with red chasers). Sure it's an apples to oranges comparison but you do find yourself thinking "why have an 818 when you can have a roadster at only twice the price" :D

[timmy318]

FFR Color Palette.... Are those the colors that FFR will be offering for the 818 or what are they supposed to be?13086


Edit: Nevermind, I see what it is

[Wayne Presley]

Just thought of something else (while reading a write up of a daytona F430 build), can someone take a picture of the underside of the cars? Wonder if they're flat, where they're open, and if there are tunnels built in.
It's flat bottomed

[Wayne Presley]

For the "S".

Are there hinge systems for the hood and hatch or are they designed as unlatch and remove panels.

If ther are/will be hinges, how does the hatch open?

Rear will be hinged with them placed on the back edge.

[ehansen007]

I can say that after sitting in the roller with the race buckets it was roomier than I thought. The Stock subie seats will take some of that away. I felt like I was back in my go karting days with the wheel up close and the knees out and it felt good. It looks so much better in person. BTW, I'm 6-1"190 with 46" shoulders.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/SEMA/SEMA%202012/IMG_0594.jpg

Here's a couple of angles I hadn't seen.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/SEMA/SEMA%202012/IMG_0697.jpg

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/ehansen007/SEMA/SEMA%202012/IMG_0699.jpg

[Mechie3]

That first pic is great. Really show the frame vs driver position.

[ehansen007]

Quick walk around really shows the curved lines much better.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYHxupH7x_Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Wayne Presley]

Some I took

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00041.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00036.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00015.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00009.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00032.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00006.jpg

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[Wayne Presley]

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http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/SEMA2012/Image00001.jpg

[bstuke]

Awesome pics Wayne!

[Wayne Presley]

And the car looks 5x better in person than the pics. I can not wait to get one in my shop!
Thursday there were 20 people in the booth 20 minutes after the show closed for the day. You look around and nobody was hanging out in the other booths.

[Mechie3]

Great pics Wayne. Lots of angle to see everything from. Awesome!

[RM1SepEx]

Great pics Wayne. Lots of angle to see everything from. Awesome!

Mega Dittos.. these are great photos, showing much more detail!

After careful study it appears that the upper trans strut isn't being used... The go kart video showed big time power plant movement... I'm wondering if it is resolved with stiffer mounts vs the stock ones...

[RSxx]

Looking at the street inside pics, I wonder how difficult it would be to raise the center console and shifter. I had a old mr-2 and loved that setting and short shifter pole. Any thoughts anyone? I guess that is the great thing about this kits, you can modify them and give it your own touch. Can't wait to get mine in the garage and start tinkering with it.

[timmy318]

Pretty much I plan on making the center console kinda like a Lamborghini Aventadors center console:

13115

[Vman7]

Whoa....now that's pretty cool! I know just go buy one..........oh wait it probably cost more then the 818........lol

[RSxx]

That is one sexy car and interior.

I need to go back and see the go-kart pic, but would it make sense to route most of the wiring and other fluid lines under the console? Or instead place the gas tank there? i would think less gas weight shifting side to side during cornering, keeping weight more centered? Those that are looking for more leg room or using h-6 I/o the wrx engine could benefit from that extra space?

Just thinking out loud.

[timmy318]

Whoa....now that's pretty cool! I know just go buy one..........oh wait it probably cost more then the 818........lol

Yea, you could make this car not necessarily look like a Aventador, but it could definitely spank one for less then the $397,500 they ask for one.......

[RSxx]

Yea, you could make this car not necessarily look like a Aventador, but it could definitely spank one for less then the $397,500 they ask for one.......

I see an orange Aventador around my area regularly, would love to have a encounter with it in my 818.

[timmy318]

I see an orange Aventador around my area regularly, would love to have a encounter with it in my 818.

Around my area, someone owns a Gallardo LP 560-4 spyder and LOVES to show it off. Can't wait to have my 818 completed and pull up at the coffe shop and just have the crowd go "Woosh"(sorry for my poor online sound effects :p) to my car. Though, some people will still stay by that Gallardo(I'm ashamed to say that I'd take on over the 818 if I could afford it).

[MK4]

One details I havent seen on any pics or heard mentionning. Where is the gas tank? Where do you fill up? Anyone?

[David]

And the car looks 5x better in person than the pics

100% agreed....

[jimgood]

Looking at the street inside pics, I wonder how difficult it would be to raise the center console and shifter. I had a old mr-2 and loved that setting and short shifter pole. Any thoughts anyone? I guess that is the great thing about this kits, you can modify them and give it your own touch. Can't wait to get mine in the garage and start tinkering with it.
I'm no expert but judging by the fact that it's cable driven and the cables are flexible, you should be able to mount it higher. It's odd to me that the cables have to go forward then all the way around to the back. If they came out of the back of the shifter box and were routed behind the passenger side they could be a lot shorter. But maybe the bends would be too sharp.
13121

[Wayne Presley]

One details I havent seen on any pics or heard mentionning. Where is the gas tank? Where do you fill up? Anyone?


Gas tank is on the floor behind seats (with firewall) and the filler should be behind the roll bar on the side panel since the engine cover will be hinged. Or could be under the engine cover since it opens.

[Wayne Presley]

I'm no expert but judging by the fact that it's cable driven and the cables are flexible, you should be able to mount it higher. It's odd to me that the cables have to go forward then all the way around to the back. If they came out of the back of the shifter box and were routed behind the passenger side they could be a lot shorter. But maybe the bends would be too sharp.
13121


I had that conversation with Jim, if the cables went straight back they would have have to notch the tank and then the cables would still have to make a sharp bend to get around the motor. Going forward the cable only have to make a long radius 180° on the front and a long radius 90° in the back.

[Kalstar]

Would not end well. All wheel drive and power vs light weight and rear drive. Depending on the abilities of each driver, all being equal, the 818 will be put in it's place by "big brother".

[carbon fiber]

yeah, the adventador is lamborghinis most advanced car ever. first monocoque carbon fiber tub car. everything else they've built was tube frame/composite body similar to these kits. no offense to ffr, but i'd cut my gtm into little pieces and set it on fire for a used mclaren f1!

[skullandbones]

I had that conversation with Jim, if the cables went straight back they would have have to notch the tank and then the cables would still have to make a sharp bend to get around the motor. Going forward the cable only have to make a long radius 180° on the front and a long radius 90° in the back.

I couldn't figure those out when I first saw them. So just how long are the cables and are they part of the kit? That's got to be an expensive item. Would like to see the kit itemized. That's one of the tasks for FFR going forward. Thanks, WEK.

[Draco-REX]

Anyone know if the 818R's cage will be able to be custom ordered? I may want one with an allowance for a passenger seat, higher hoop for a tall driver, and a full halo.

[timmy318]

Anyone know if the 818R's cage will be able to be custom ordered? I may want one with an allowance for a passenger seat, higher hoop for a tall driver, and a full halo.

I highly doubt that. Most likely, you'll have to order the 818-R and then either do those modifications yourself or hire it out to someone else.

[sidewinder]

???

i'm sorry but can anybody tell me what the designcontest was for? so many beautiful ideas, efforts, creativity - just to end up with this?
i can't see any designcues of any of the selected concepts - HoF might only be achieved by the shocking awareness that a 2004 exige looks more modern than this1...
i haven't been on this forum for some time and if it didn't say 818 next to the photos i'd never guessed it - i'd like to apologize in advance in case my post comes across in a negative way but pls consider this: it's not nice to handle an alleged open source project like this. remember how many people invested their time believing they could contribute to the making of a real car. just to see their inputs skipped for this homegrown something. there were so many appealing proposals to chose from. f5 basically couldn't have gone wrong with any of the top 15 entries - at least as a design reference...anyway, to me this shows two things:
1. maybe f5 should ask for administrative support when considering a similar project in future. many marketing agencies or websites like forge.localmotors can do this.
2. compared to other existing f5 kits it becomes quite clear that there is a huge difference between replica kit cars and original "homegrown" designs. being able to read doesn't automatically transform you into shakespeare.
well, i nevertheless hope that this car won't ruin f5 but instead will be a success and make many customers happy, too - so that f5 gets the chance to learn from this experience and create a real "atom-smasher" soon. all the best!

[theotherstig]

I see an orange Aventador around my area regularly, would love to have a encounter with it in my 818.

Ok guys, come on now.

Your talking about a car that has incredible gearing, technology, aerodynamics, and engineering put into it...not to mention 700 horsepower and AWD.

I mean its not about WHP only here, and even a 400whp 818 would get OWNED by an Aventador.

Now I will say this, its not really an auto-crossing car, so you would probably have a pretty good chance of beating it on an auto-cross/road course....if it was a handling circuit and not a power circuit.

[timmy318]

Agreed. Now way in anything can this 818 beat a Aventador unless you'd like to come close to the cost of one(that is of course in a flat out race). BUT, in an autocross I truly believe the 818 would hold its own and beat the Aventador. Remeber people, this is a $15K car already being compared to a $300K+ car :D! If you truly want to make your car look more "ritzy" then I'd suggest pour around $10-$20K into it and you'll have yourself a VERY, VERY nice looking 818!

[Oppenheimer]

???

i'm sorry but can anybody tell me what the designcontest was for? so many beautiful ideas, efforts, creativity - just to end up with this?
i can't see any designcues of any of the selected concepts - HoF might only be achieved by the shocking awareness that a 2004 exige looks more modern than this1...


Dave has said often that one hallmark of the 818 will multipurpose, mutibody designs. He has harped on how the technology being used will allow swiftly designing and developing new body designs. The 818 is intended to be a 'platform' for FFR to create many different cars.

But you have to start somewhere. And in this case, that somewhere has to be South of $10K for the whole kit. That is a lot to ask for. They are doing something new here, that has never been done before. I think it may have been there intention to try and make one of the design contest winners (or at least one of the well liked entries) the initial body design. They poured quite a bit of effort into making those scale models, even going as far as making a 1/4 scale version of the Xabier.

But to get it released on time, and on budget, and for the stated selling price, they had to go with an in-house design. Many can see design cues from some of the entries in this initial 818 release. But I think we will see some of those design contest favorites make an appearance down the road as a new 818 body option, eventually there could be quite a few to choose from.

But I would think a lot of that depends on how successfull the current 818 offering is. So if you don't like the current design enough to buy it, your best bet is to support and promote the current 818 design as much as possible, so its successfull, so FFR sells a lot of them, so they are inclined to build the body design you do favor.

[David Hodgkins]

???

i'm sorry but can anybody tell me what the designcontest was for? so many beautiful ideas, efforts, creativity - just to end up with this?
i can't see any designcues of any of the selected concepts - HoF might only be achieved by the shocking awareness that a 2004 exige looks more modern than this1...
i haven't been on this forum for some time and if it didn't say 818 next to the photos i'd never guessed it - i'd like to apologize in advance in case my post comes across in a negative way but pls consider this: it's not nice to handle an alleged open source project like this. remember how many people invested their time believing they could contribute to the making of a real car. just to see their inputs skipped for this homegrown something. there were so many appealing proposals to chose from. f5 basically couldn't have gone wrong with any of the top 15 entries - at least as a design reference...anyway, to me this shows two things:
1. maybe f5 should ask for administrative support when considering a similar project in future. many marketing agencies or websites like forge.localmotors can do this.
2. compared to other existing f5 kits it becomes quite clear that there is a huge difference between replica kit cars and original "homegrown" designs. being able to read doesn't automatically transform you into shakespeare.
well, i nevertheless hope that this car won't ruin f5 but instead will be a success and make many customers happy, too - so that f5 gets the chance to learn from this experience and create a real "atom-smasher" soon. all the best!


Dave has said often that one hallmark of the 818 will multipurpose, mutibody designs. He has harped on how the technology being used will allow swiftly designing and developing new body designs. The 818 is intended to be a 'platform' for FFR to create many different cars.

But you have to start somewhere. And in this case, that somewhere has to be South of $10K for the whole kit. That is a lot to ask for. They are doing something new here, that has never been done before. I think it may have been there intention to try and make one of the design contest winners (or at least one of the well liked entries) the initial body design. They poured quite a bit of effort into making those scale models, even going as far as making a 1/4 scale version of the Xabier.

But to get it released on time, and on budget, and for the stated selling price, they had to go with an in-house design. Many can see design cues from some of the entries in this initial 818 release. But I think we will see some of those design contest favorites make an appearance down the road as a new 818 body option, eventually there could be quite a few to choose from.

But I would think a lot of that depends on how successfull the current 818 offering is. So if you don't like the current design enough to buy it, your best bet is to support and promote the current 818 design as much as possible, so its successfull, so FFR sells a lot of them, so they are inclined to build the body design you do favor.

Excellent reply!

:)

[timmy318]

Excellent reply!

:)

Dangit..... When I saw your name under the posted section I thought we'd get some new info :p!!! But yea, great reply! If you don't like it, either wait till a later more favorable version is released or just don't buy it.

[Vman7]

Yeah I don't plan on buying it................................................ ...................ok long pause for dramatic effect........lol

Not because of the design, I just can't afford it right now, and even if I could I really don't have somewhere to build it.

For the 1st time kit builder, this car would be an excellent choice in my view, and once done most people won't know or believe it's a component car (kit car).

The thing I like is you don't need a lot of help from other people for lifting a bunch of stuff, like the whole body, since they are panels.

[Xusia]

sidewinder,

Oppenheimer makes some really good points. I would add to that the following:

As far I am aware, Dave never stated the design contest winner would be the design of the 818. Rather, he didn't make a statement either way and people assumed that would be the case. My take is that they were open to it - IF it worked out - but they were more looking for ideas and to generate some excitement & interest. There is nothing wrong with that.
I too liked several of the design contest entries. But I am open minded and aware enough to understand many of those designs are polarizing; meaning some people are going to love them, and some are going to hate them, but not a lot will be in the middle. From a business standpoint, that's a huge gamble. FFR NEEDS the 818 to be a success, so choosing a design that's more mainstream (or whatever you want to call it) compared to the design contest entries makes good business sense. So it's not as cool looking [to you] as your favorite design, but that certainly doesn't make it ugly or anything!
Find me another sub-$25K car that looks this good OR performs this well; let alone both.


All in all, I think FFR has done a good job. If anything, perhaps having been more clear in some communications would have been better, but even that's just a minor nit. It's not like they have full time marketing & communications people! (do they??)

EDIT: An additional point is that MANY design contest entries were completely unrealistic and unworkable. But they sure did look cool as a drawing!! :D

[Nelff]

I just deleted a post that I was about to make... It sounded a bit negative... Bottom line, I think that the 818 turned into something that I'm not thrilled with. If I want a roadster, I'll probably opt for the FF C0bra roadster. I can put a top on it too, wish it had real windows... Here's to hoping that in the year or so that I have till ordering, I'll have more 818 body options...

[skullandbones]

I believe the first time builder will have a real advantage over some of the other builders of coupes, roadsters, and GTMs. I don't know about the hot rod. It looks simpler but I think that could be deceiving (no offense meant). But there is one person I am sure is going to build an 818 (AZPete). He is a former roadster builder. I think some builders are looking for something that is a little simpler and requires less resources and time to build for a next build. The alternatives of a coupe and GTM are going the other direction as far as complications and expense. The hot rod is also expensive compared to the 818. So like Pete, I would lean toward the 818 as an attractive alternative. You still get to build an awesome project but maybe look forward to not putting as much blood and sweat into it. In my case, there is significant blood soaked into the garage floor (literally). So if I do another FFR project it is likely to be an 818 (waiting for Targa iteration). I will be done with the roadster and have some time to enjoy it before that time comes. IMO, WEK.

[bstuke]

I am going to go out on a limb:

I have heard from several different sources, that the FFR booth as well as the Koni booth where the 818R was located, received more traffic than not only any other replica/kit booth, but more traffic than most of the other booths that had vehicles.

I think that speaks volumes. The 818 is a not only a home run, but a grand slam bottom of the ninth down by 3 walk off home run.

Congrats Dave, Jim, Jesper and the rest of the FFR team that made this happen.

[Highway Star]

I am going to go out on a limb:

I have heard from several different sources, that the FFR booth as well as the Koni booth where the 818R was located, received more traffic than not only any other replica/kit booth, but more traffic than most of the other booths that had vehicles.

I think that speaks volumes. The 818 is a not only a home run, but a grand slam bottom of the ninth down by 3 walk off home run.

Congrats Dave, Jim, Jesper and the rest of the FFR team that made this happen.

This makes me wonder how long it will take some of the competitors to bang out a design of their own.

I think it could be a good thing by encouraging the vendors to make more products geared for this platform. Today there's no shortage of Cobra secondary vendors because it is the standard kit car. This could be the start of a whole new genre of kits for the vendors to support.

In other words, get your donors while they last.

[Draco-REX]

I highly doubt that. Most likely, you'll have to order the 818-R and then either do those modifications yourself or hire it out to someone else.

Hmm.. That would be an issue since it appears that if the main hoop is cut it cannot pass NASA tech inspection.

[sidewinder]

As far I am aware, Dave never stated the design contest winner would be the design of the 818. Rather, he didn't make a statement either way and people assumed that would be the case. My take is that they were open to it - IF it worked out - but they were more looking for ideas and to generate some excitement & interest. There is nothing wrong with that.


that`s true. i remember that as well. i wouldn't have an issue with that if they had a good reason to favor their own design. i think you can judge on this on a matter of fact level even if you are not into a specific design or a "professional": everybody gets the difference between an r8 and a pimped tt. you wouldn't want to recieve a daihatsu copen if you were teased with a 2-eleven before. to me there IS sth wrong with that.



I too liked several of the design contest entries. But I am open minded and aware enough to understand many of those designs are polarizing; meaning some people are going to love them, and some are going to hate them, but not a lot will be in the middle. From a business standpoint, that's a huge gamble. FFR NEEDS the 818 to be a success, so choosing a design that's more mainstream (or whatever you want to call it) compared to the design contest entries makes good business sense.


when did a golf set your hair on fire the last time? i think HoF was a goal of this project and "mentionend" a few times throughout the project . "HoF" and "mainstream" are like black and white. actually a lightweight sportscar like this already is the opposite of mainstream conceptionally: it's a ducati panigale on four wheels - go ahead and find somebody who'll buy it because it "makes sense" or might want it to look like a cbf 600?!



But I would think a lot of that depends on how successfull the current 818 offering is. So if you don't like the current design enough to buy it, your best bet is to support and promote the current 818 design as much as possible, so its successfull, so FFR sells a lot of them, so they are inclined to build the body design you do favor.


are you serious? would you buy a product you don't actually need but are supposed to desire just because of charity? imagine ford's next ad: "we are aware that our new gt(40) happened to look like a probe and sry for that but pls buy it anyway because the next1 will be better! promise!"

again, i 2 hope that the exhausts of the competition wont burn the 818 body too badly (speaking designwise) so that F5 survives this experience and gets the chance to develop a true 666!

[sidewinder]

The 818 is intended to be a 'platform' for FFR to create many different cars.
They are doing something new here, that has never been done before.

right, i never heard the term "platform" in auto industry before. golf, ibiza, leon, tt, octavia, a3 (...) just happen to share 85% of parts accidentally. not to mention the countless old beetle and 2cv kits. never happend.

[Jeff Kleiner]

So here we go, beating the same dead horse...


As far I am aware, Dave never stated the design contest winner would be the design of the 818.

I'm pretty sure he never stated that everyone would like the final design either. Sidewinder, apparently you don't and won't be a customer so give it a rest and move on.

Jeff

[FFinisher]

So here we go, beating the same dead horse...



I'm pretty sure he never stated that everyone would like the final design either. Sidewinder, apparently you don't and won't be a customer so give it a rest and move on.

Jeff

Well said Jeff.

I have seen the car it is absolutely awesome. ( Actually I drove it- Yeah only 20 feet onto the car hauler, but still-- I drove it!!)It will be a huge success for FFR and get thousands of peope into a little rocket ship project car for short money.

[carbon fiber]

i understand sidewinders point of view, i made a slightly similar statement awhile back. it's akin to taking off a really big bra, to find it's stuffed with tissue paper. there's still something in there, it's just not what you were hoping for! (forgive the crude analogy) especially with some of the great designs that were submitted. (vman, rodney, and others come to mind) that being said, where to go from here? the mechanicals and performance will be there, and some like the looks as is. some want small mods or complete rebody. all this could happen. the more that ffr sells the better chances that this would happen. again, no offense to ffr or jim. ( i know his ears are burning, i'm sensitive to critisism myself!) they offer a deal with this kit that's unparalled in kit cars. it's still a great kit and value, they'll sell 'em like hot cakes. i've heard dave say more than once that one of the best things about building one of their kits is the ability to customize to suit our own preferences. i'm doing this type of thing for the gtm right now, maybe someone will do it for the 818.

[timmy318]

Remember people. Dave Smith wanted to have a sub $10K price for this kit. He chose this body style for a reason. He also said that once kits start selling & rollin out they plan on making some different body styles (Coupe maybe) that will be able to kit on the chassis of the 818-S. If you don't like it people, don't try to keep bashing it! I mean, come on! Only $15K to complete this car? That's a helluva if you ask me!(Don't mean to be rude)

[RM1SepEx]

WOW, that rathole again...

get a life... They own the inputs and designs from the contest and took what they wanted. That is all that they ever committed to. Unlike ALL of the entrants they actually have to make sure that they can market, produce and make a profit using a new (to them) MFG techniques

As a simple example, like many of you I prefer the looks if the side intake extends into the door. However, based on my years of Mfg. Eng experience doing that makes both mfg and assembly much more exacting and complicated. Alignment of these panels happens in 3 dimensions and ripple through the whole body assembly... Same for the way the fender stops and the gap etc to the door. Doing this way makes alignment much easier. The panels need to be complicated enough to have an eye pleasing design yet be simple enough for their thermo forming process to give top quality, easy to align, pre finished panels. They need to live with and support their compromises.

I feel as if they have taken tons of input from us and we have had more say than I've seen with any other company!

Don't like it... wait for future options, modify it to meet your needs, start a small company making alternative panels and sell them to others, buy something else

[flynntuna]

I guess some can't get passed this. If this project is a sucess, Dave said there will be 3-4 bodies. We've seen two so far be patient. Hey Timmy318 have you decided to paint? The paint scheme of your 33 is great And would look good on the 818 to. Could be like team colors

[carbon fiber]

rm1sepex, if you're reffering to my comments, i thought they were honest and positive on the future of the 818. i'm aware of the problems that arise when going to application, trust me. it's what i do every day. like i said, some like it some don't. i also talked about moving forward, and the positives that could be attained. i also understand sidewinders frustration, although it would have been better to look at both sides negative/positive. often new ideas are brought about by these conversations.

[timmy318]

I guess some can't get passed this. If this project is a sucess, Dave said there will be 3-4 bodies. We've seen two so far be patient. Hey Timmy318 have you decided to paint? The paint scheme of your 33 is great And would look good on the 818 to. Could be like team colors

Thanks! They're supposed to resemble Kentucky Colors :p(Louisville vs UK family rivalry). As of now, I plan on running the 818 with the no-paint option just to see if it truly holds up. When I paint my 818, I plan on using either this (http://www.planetcolor.com/color/detail.php?colorPartNumber=PCS12) color or a blue.... Haven't quiet decided on a final scheme. The interior is most likely going to be black with some blue inserts???? I think the main color of the car could be blue and then using the color above to kinda bind the black interior with the blue exterior..... Still open to colors though(haven't found one that I truly like)!

[DrieStone]

I sort of feel the same as Sidewinder, I'm sure there are many out there that do. I also understand that there are a hell of a lot of constraints in building a car. I'm so conflicted because emotionally I feel like the 818 body design is... uninspiring... it's good, but not what I was hoping for. I'll admit that I accept that my taste isn't the same as others. I do feel like the open source contest was a bit of a letdown, and I'm sure in retrospect it probably was a bad idea to handle it the way that it was handled. We got very excited by some really wild designs that we wanted to own (regardless of the ability to produce those designs in a cost effective way). Now we're looking at a car that doesn't seem to hold up to the expectation.

I love the idea of the 818. It is an inspired engineering feat. Jim (and the entire team) should get major kudos for doing what they've done in the time that they've had. I have no doubt that many, many decisions had to be made in order to make SEMA, and to try to get the car into the hands of the customers.

I guess my feeling is this. What I've seen for the 818 is good. Hell most of it is great. I'm know it will sell well, but it does not fulfill all of Dave's promise (either real or perceived), specifically in regard to "a car inspired by cars like the Stratos" and "making sure the car is HOF worthy". FFR should be happy with the current state of the 818, but they shouldn't be satisfied. It's so odd for me to have such a mix of wonder, excitement and disappointment.

I'm not going away (a good troll never does), I want to see what the next phase of 818 brings us.

I still want to build an 818. I just don't want to build THIS 818.

[shim2]

I sort of feel the same as Sidewinder, I'm sure there are many out there that do. I also understand that there are a hell of a lot of constraints in building a car. I'm so conflicted because emotionally I feel like the 818 body design is... uninspiring... it's good, but not what I was hoping for. I'll admit that I accept that my taste isn't the same as others. I do feel like the open source contest was a bit of a letdown, and I'm sure in retrospect it probably was a bad idea to handle it the way that it was handled. We got very excited by some really wild designs that we wanted to own (regardless of the ability to produce those designs in a cost effective way). Now we're looking at a car that doesn't seem to hold up to the expectation.

I love the idea of the 818. It is an inspired engineering feat. Jim (and the entire team) should get major kudos for doing what they've done in the time that they've had. I have no doubt that many, many decisions had to be made in order to make SEMA, and to try to get the car into the hands of the customers.

I guess my feeling is this. What I've seen for the 818 is good. Hell most of it is great. I'm know it will sell well, but it does not fulfill all of Dave's promise (either real or perceived), specifically in regard to "a car inspired by cars like the Stratos" and "making sure the car is HOF worthy". FFR should be happy with the current state of the 818, but they shouldn't be satisfied. It's so odd for me to have such a mix of wonder, excitement and disappointment.

I'm not going away (a good troll never does), I want to see what the next phase of 818 brings us.

I still want to build an 818. I just don't want to build THIS 818.

I'm inclined to agree with this gentleman's post.

[carbon fiber]

i do too. but going forward, the body will be easy to improve upon by a third party. maybe not as radical as some of the design entries, but could be modified to suit ones tastes more and keep up with modern styling trends. i've talked to ALOT people who would buy the gtm if it had more modern styling. two of my freinds that were looking at a zo6 and a used lambo gallardo are interested after seeing my renderings. i'm making that happen, someone could with the 818 also. the great part is there's a well engineered chassis underneath, something that would be much harder to fix than cosmetics.

[Mechie3]

it does not fulfill all of Dave's promise (either real or perceived), specifically in regard to "a car inspired by cars like the Stratos" and "making sure the car is HOF worthy".

It's all in your point of view.

Johnny hears "Stratos inspired" and thinks "wow, it will look just like a stratos". Bobby hears "stratos inspired" and thinks "wow, lightweight RWD with a new look".

Same with HOF. Some people love the look of Subarus, some hate them. Others think that every modern car is a POS with no soul and only old cars that look like ancient crap to others are good. That old school mercedes gull wing car a lot of people get HOF over? Meh. Looks like an old car to me. Sure, if you gave me one I'd take it...and then I'd promptly sell it for top dollar and get something that appeals to me and pocket the rest of the cash. I heard someone once say that the last good Ferrari was the F50. I think the F50 looks stupid and love the looks of the newer challenge cars. It's all opinion.

Just because it didn't set your hair on fire, doesn't mean it didn't set others hair on fire. But, we're beating a dead horse that's been decaying for some time and it's making a mucky mess.

[Movieman]

It's all in your point of view.

Johnny hears "Stratos inspired" and thinks "wow, it will look just like a stratos". Bobby hears "stratos inspired" and thinks "wow, lightweight RWD with a new look".

Same with HOF. Some people love the look of Subarus, some hate them. Others think that every modern car is a POS with no soul and only old cars that look like ancient crap to others are good. That old school mercedes gull wing car a lot of people get HOF over? Meh. Looks like an old car to me. Sure, if you gave me one I'd take it...and then I'd promptly sell it for top dollar and get something that appeals to me and pocket the rest of the cash. I heard someone once say that the last good Ferrari was the F50. I think the F50 looks stupid and love the looks of the newer challenge cars. It's all opinion.

Just because it didn't set your hair on fire, doesn't mean it didn't set others hair on fire. But, we're beating a dead horse that's been decaying for some time and it's making a mucky mess.

Well said. To me it's like the difference between reading a book and watching a movie of that book.
The book YOU imagine what the charachters look like,etc while in the movie your seeing someone else's interpretation of that same book.
All that said I think FFR did a great job. Is it perfect? That will depend on the individual but regardless I think it's damned good.
As to HOF, to me, take the 818R, pull that bar, drop in a second seat, add a legal windscreen and ..oops, call 911, my heart just stopped:D

[Oppenheimer]

Guys, more bodies to come. Don't like this one, wait for the next one. Make Dave regret ever asking us for input, and you won't get the chance to give advice for that next body (if we haven't already burnt that bridge too badly).

By now FFR knows not everyone likes their initial 818 design. They also know why many don't like it. There is no need for more feedback on that. Why not redirect that energy to encouraging Dave on the next body design. Dave stated he left SEMA with a change in focus, that the 818 got such overwhelming response that he is going to put even more resources on it. What does that mean? Who knows. Dave probably doesn't even know exactly what that will entail. So there is an opportunity here to influence it. Lets influence it for the positive.

[carbon fiber]

thats where i was coming from. not being negative, but discussing the realistic options for thpse who don't like it. you have to also keep in mind, this is the perfect place for feedback for ffr. very valuable. the customer may not always be right, but they know what they do/don't like.

[Kalstar]

What most of the distractors are missing is this car was built with the same philosophy as the Suburu car. A Lego.

All of the top notch contest entrance had a similar trait, they could not be modular. The current designs allow the ability to remove panels and replace as needed or if appearance warrants change. No production car I know can do this. Case in point, remove rear hatch, pin down the new Coupe hatch and purchase the targa top (bam) new look. Change the hood, front/rear faicia, quarters.... Whole different car. No need to start fresh, heck even the color will match. Even the windshield is a bolt on affair. Usually the roof lines are a dead giveaway to what car lives beneath the skin of a heavily modified car, not with this package. If you racing, one can stock additional color matched panels for repair damage. Lotus is arguably the track target for the 818, tap the front clam and not only are you out of the race, many lotus get totaled due to front clam damage.

I really think F5R thought this through and is reinventing the way cars should be made. Brilliant!!

[PhyrraM]

Actually, many cars through the years have had modular bodies. Just not usually for styling, but for utility.

Land Rover Defender and (older) Series vehicles come to mind. So do most Jeeps from the CJ and Wrangles series.

The late '80s Nissan Pulsar had a modular/replaceable hatch that was engineered to be a hatch, semi-open roadster or even a mini-wagon if desired.


I wouldn't say all the "top notch" contest entries were non-modular. Some of my, personal, favorites from the contest were designed exactly to use the modularity Dave was hinting at (at the time).

[timmy318]

People, from now on can we just please appreciate what Dave & the FF team have done? If you truly don't like it then just sit their and keep pouting about how YOU didn't get what YOU wanted. Remember, this kit is being offered for sub $10K so it's not exactly a Lamborghini or Ferrari.... I see this car in the glass half full perspective. As in, the car is a piece of clay ready to be molded into what the owner wants. Pardon my analogy but that was the best I could think of. :D

[Rasmus]

We really need to lock this thread. It served it's purpose, now that SEMA's over.

[wallace18]

I agree. I do not know why people need to rehash old threads in this one. I don't think it serves much of a purpose IMO.

[Mechie3]

Biggest thread here so that means we should post everything in it....right.? Right? Lol

[PhyrraM]

For some reason, almost no thread stays on topic here. Very NASIOCish. I've grown used to it.

Just start a new thread if you get too lost, that's what I've resorted to.

[sidewinder]

I love the idea of the 818. It is an inspired engineering feat. Jim (and the entire team) should get major kudos for doing what they've done in the time that they've had. I have no doubt that many, many decisions had to be made in order to make SEMA, and to try to get the car into the hands of the customers.



you're right on your first point. i agree on the fact that the whole tech. package & overall idea is very promising and an impressive achievement (esp. with respect to the resources vs. development time). i definitely give kudos to all the people involved in this.
but one of the main mistakes of this project starts from your second statement - sema - trust me, i'm experiencing this every day (i'm working in r&d): you wouldn't believe how many good ideas and approaches are skipped because of those unholy and foremost "virtual" deadlines! and unrealistic schedules! and idiotic "one way only" processes. who said they had to do it in this time? for this show? it's not like there aren't already enough cars on the road, right? as far as i understand f5 is doing well with their existing range so why the hurry? this is a new experience for them and they should've taken one step after another. and they actually HAD a lot of support+assistance on this.
and besides input from their very customers/this community they could have asked for support handling the whole contest/ideation thing, the feedback and related tasks. as they did during the engineering stage: they didn't invent the hard- or software for the 818 but instead partnered with an expert on this field. that was the right decision but it couldn't fix the previous mistakes!
to me on projects like these it's not about cost efficency only. that's a fundamental mistake when creating emotional products. you can do this on a vacuum cleaner or a washing machine project but pls not when creating your business card in the segment of a bad *** porsche killer! who needs this car? isn't d*e*s*i*r*e the main driver for this whole thing? esp. when it comes to sportscars - what would they be without appealing, sometimes stunning design? of course an industrial sewing machine might be impressive because of its performance - but it'll never be sexy or set anybodys hair on fire (if not accidentally/by failure). i don't want an 818 sewing machine. and it didn't need to be one! that`s another conceptional mistake - or even worse - an ooooold prejudice against good design: good design is not necessarily more expensive/complicated/less feasible!!! actually if it's really good it usually even boosts those aspects in a positive way! and again, there were some good designs among those proposals. anyway, all i hear now is how everybody focusses on either getting past this thing (future bodystyles) or to customize it in a way it won't look like it looks now - not sure if this was the original goal... in a way i'm feeling sorry for f5 - their intentions and efforts were undoubtly positive. so was the whole enterprise, too. that is what upsets me most - they should and COULD have a supercool outcome now - honestly, to me it's still not too late to reconsider the current result. let's see if they have the guts - good luck!

[Benji]

I don't think it has gone off topic to be honest and hopefully it's slowing people from creating a load of other threads.

To be honest I think a lot of the negative comments have been from people who haven't seen the actual 818S. Now this doesn't make them wrong, it's just that I think they'd possibly say it with a little less conviction if they had.

I even personally agree to some extent but I've seen the car now and I personally love the idea of it. The first thing I thought when I saw it was that it would fit great in a line up of MY00-04 cars with the same philosophy, i.e. NB Miata, S2000, W30 MR2... Now you wouldn't call an NB Miata a 'HOF' design (back then or now) however, once you own one, you'll love the crap out of it.

Once I saw the 818S I thought, that'll do. It's not 'HOF' but it does look good and would I love it like my Miata? Yes, I would.

At the end of the day whilst it is disappointing that we didn't see some of the other designs come to fruition, there are probably a whole MOUNTAIN of reasons why they weren't chosen. If we were to simply choose the design from a purely 'how good does it look' perspective then sure, why in the hell weren't 'better' ones chosen? However, if we were to choose the design from a 'how good does it look' ANNNND how feasible it is to produce and to produce within budget then.... well if you were faced with that decision for your company you may also have ended up picking the current design.

If you are still wondering why they chose it, you probably aren't thinking/aware of what else most go into the decision making process. At the end of the day the 818S/R are here to stay, if you don't like it, don't buy it but I reckon it's going to do okay, if you like the next design, great! Come and join the party but for now, try not to rain too hard on everyone else parade.

[David Hodgkins]

This thread to me has been the most exciting, positive threads so far regarding the 818, if you leave out the last day's diversion. The design is very close to finalized. The responses has been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE! The SEMA show had NONE of the comments that sidewinder is rehashing.

A BIG thank you must go out to the forum membership for showing an enthusiasm that helped inspire the FFR engineers to get 2 full cars and a chassis ready for SEMA. It was amazing to see these initial prototypes come together, and to get to see, feel and help document the initial reaction to these 2 completely new models is something that I will always cherish, and something that Factory Five can be very proud of.

Now, there are new goals to strive for as FFR continues to "reach beyond their grasp".

The main goal now is to finish the development of the car and bring it to market. Additional body style development will proceed at a pace dictated by Dave, based in part on the effort and reaction to the SEMA show. The first version still need some refinement and you can bet Jim and Jesper will be VERY busy in the coming months. Many cool things are forthcoming related to the continuing development of the 818. I am VERY excited that the forum will play an active part in some of those plans. Stay tuned. More excitement is coming as we witness the continuing development of the 818.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12776&d=1351656394

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12774&d=1351656388

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12814&d=1351657448

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12871&d=1351732634

:)

[crash]

I witheld most of my opinions and thoughts until after I had a chance to see the cars in person.

My thoughts are still pretty short on this subject.

FFR has a great product there. It is a great looking car, and the "bang for the buck" is extremely high.

Do FFR cars look like some of the other builders creations that have released true marquee cars? No. But that is what keeps everyone in business. If you don't like what FFR has to offer, then go somewhere else, or build your own design. Why waste your time at the computer talking about why you DISLIKE someone elses car? That makes no sense to me.

Like it, buy it, or don't. Simple as that.

Judging by the numbers of people I saw at the show in the FFR booth and around the 818s, there is an extreme amount of interest in the car, and it should, IMHO, sell very well with it's intended audience and price point.

Well done FFR!

[WonderDude]

Did they ever diclose the rim and tire sizes? I know I should go back and re-read this entire thread. But I just don't have time. :(

[Mechie3]

Rear tire size was 255 IIRC. Don't remember fronts. Wheels are likely 18". Don't recall a width being given.

[BryceJ]

From one of the pictures taken of the 818S one tire is 255/35ZR18. I don't know if that is the front, rear or both.

[WonderDude]

Rear tire size was 255 IIRC. Don't remember fronts. Wheels are likely 18". Don't recall a width being given.

I'm only guessing here: rear 18x9 with 255/35/18? and then maybe front 18x8 225/40/18?

Whatever they picked, looks pretty good.

[WonderDude]

From one of the pictures taken of the 818S one tire is 255/35ZR18. I don't know if that is the front, rear or both.

Ah! Got the rear tires correct! :D

[wallace18]

This thread to me has been the most exciting, positive threads so far regarding the 818, if you leave out the last day's diversion. The design is very close to finalized. The responses has been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE! The SEMA show had NONE of the comments that sidewinder is rehashing.

A BIG thank you must go out to the forum membership for showing an enthusiasm that helped inspire the FFR engineers to get 2 full cars and a chassis ready for SEMA. It was amazing to see these initial prototypes come together, and to get to see, feel and help document the initial reaction to these 2 completely new models is something that I will always cherish, and something that Factory Five can be very proud of.

Now, there are new goals to strive for as FFR continues to "reach beyond their grasp".

The main goal now is to finish the development of the car and bring it to market. Additional body style development will proceed at a pace dictated by Dave, based in part on the effort and reaction to the SEMA show. The first version still need some refinement and you can bet Jim and Jesper will be VERY busy in the coming months. Many cool things are forthcoming related to the continuing development of the 818. I am VERY excited that the forum will play an active part in some of those plans. Stay tuned. More excitement is coming as we witness the continuing development of the 818.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12776&d=1351656394

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12774&d=1351656388

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12814&d=1351657448

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12871&d=1351732634

:)
Thanks for a great post. We, who are super interested in the 818 thank Dave, Jim and all at FFR. I look forward to hearing more in the future. I am tired of the negative stuff.

[Mechie3]

Front looks to be 225/40/18 from what I can make out in the black background gallery pics of the 818R.

That poses a slight problem for me. I bought the same wheels, in black (meh), that are 18x9.5. It'll be hard to put anything less than a 245 on that without being super stretched. But, they were barely used an $500 less than brand new. Maybe someone else wants to buy narrower rims, and we'll trade so we both end up with 9.5 rears and maybe 8" fronts.

;)

[WonderDude]

Front looks to be 225/40/18 from what I can make out in the black background gallery pics of the 818R.

That poses a slight problem for me. I bought the same wheels, in black (meh), that are 18x9.5. It'll be hard to put anything less than a 245 on that without being super stretched. But, they were barely used an $500 less than brand new. Maybe someone else wants to buy narrower rims, and we'll trade so we both end up with 9.5 rears and maybe 8" fronts.

;)
Which rims did you go with? BTW, I think 18x8.5s would go good with 225/40/18s

[metalmaker12]

Great job FFR, looking greaaaaat.

[Mechie3]

Which rims did you go with? BTW, I think 18x8.5s would go good with 225/40/18s

Forgestar F14. Same wheels on the 818. For 225's, I'd go with an 8" wheel. I've actually run 255 star specs on a 17x8 RPF-1. Did'nt like it. Turn in was delayed due to sidewall bulge. 235's fit better, but not perfect. Star specs tend to run wide. When the WRX got wrecked, I put the tires on some 17x7.5 for the mini. That is much fun!

The actual wheels I got. I'll likely end up blasting and powdercoating them and still be under cost of new. In the meantime, I can leave them as is, save some money. Didn't get the tires with them.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8053/8127649108_ee5ce187b4_z.jpg


Great job FFR, looking greaaaaat.

PS : No more negative post by anyone, if so, get off our forum cause your not welcomed

I find the second half of your post negative. :mad: ;)

[DrieStone]

Do FFR cars look like some of the other builders creations that have released true marquee cars? No. But that is what keeps everyone in business. If you don't like what FFR has to offer, then go somewhere else, or build your own design. Why waste your time at the computer talking about why you DISLIKE someone elses car? That makes no sense to me.

Because thankfully Dave (and team) actually read the forum. Perhaps some respectful "disappointment" will be eye opening so that the future of the product can be better. Perhaps it will reinforce thoughts that they already have.

The alternatives aren't nearly as great as the 818. Mark's car is good looking (better than 818 in the current incarnation), but it just wasn't designed to be a serious performer like the 818. SuperLight's car is HOF sexy, but I don't like the idea of a transverse motor for the car (and I believe the price is 2x the 818). From an engineering standpoint 818 is IT.


Like it, buy it, or don't. Simple as that.

If it was that simple, I (and others) wouldn't waste their time here. I don't get my jollies complaining about what *I* don't like. As I've said before, I love the 818, but I had higher expectations. I still want that car. I'm here because although I realize my voice is weak, it is my voice, and hopefully the powers that be get that there's a small subset of FFR enthusiasts (because we admire the team), who expect something even better from the team in the future. We're saying that 818 is a good first step, but you're not done.


Judging by the numbers of people I saw at the show in the FFR booth and around the 818s, there is an extreme amount of interest in the car, and it should, IMHO, sell very well with it's intended audience and price point.

Of this I have no doubt. I think 818 will quickly become FFR's best selling car. It really does hit the mark in so many ways. None of us doubt the price, performance or engineering. FFR wins on every single point. The body design has some beautiful elements that I do like quite a bit. I really do plan on making a trip to FFR to see it in person because I really do want to love this car.

[Wolfhawk46]

I would just like to say that as someone who had did not have any expectations of this vehicle, or even know about it before today (heard about it from a buddy at SEMA), that I love the looks and the price of the car and will be buying a kit in the near future once I find a donor. It looks like a MRS and a lambo had a cool looking baby, all without being a convertible.

[WonderDude]

Forgestar F14. Same wheels on the 818. For 225's, I'd go with an 8" wheel. I've actually run 255 star specs on a 17x8 RPF-1. Did'nt like it. Turn in was delayed due to sidewall bulge. 235's fit better, but not perfect. Star specs tend to run wide. When the WRX got wrecked, I put the tires on some 17x7.5 for the mini. That is much fun!

The actual wheels I got. I'll likely end up blasting and powdercoating them and still be under cost of new. In the meantime, I can leave them as is, save some money. Didn't get the tires with them.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8053/8127649108_ee5ce187b4_z.jpg



I find the second half of your post negative. :mad: ;)

Check the wheel size comparisons at THIS SITE (http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp). It seems to me that the 18x8.5 with 225/40s is a slightly better match with the 18x9.5 with 255/35s. But I know the 8s will work if you like them better. I actually have 225/45/17s on 17x8s. And they do fit nicely. :)

[Vman7]

WonderDude, glad you posted that tire/wheel size comparison site, I have been using that one for years, glad to know someone else knows about it :)

[Mechie3]

Not really sold on much of anything. lol. Just pulling some numbers out. The recommended rim size chart for the Star Specs isn't currently working for me. I just remember it said "no" to the 255 on the 8" (and it fit, just was sloppy) and even said no to the 235, but that worked just fine IMO (actually, the 235's were on a 7.5" rim).


All the Dunlop site will do is say "input tire size" "input wheel size (only offers diameter) then says "it won't fit". How do you know what size tire won't fit when you don't ask for rim width? Doh!

[WonderDude]

Not really sold on much of anything. lol. Just pulling some numbers out. The recommended rim size chart for the Star Specs isn't currently working for me. I just remember it said "no" to the 255 on the 8" (and it fit, just was sloppy) and even said no to the 235, but that worked just fine IMO (actually, the 235's were on a 7.5" rim).


All the Dunlop site will do is say "input tire size" "input wheel size (only offers diameter) then says "it won't fit". How do you know what size tire won't fit when you don't ask for rim width? Doh!



Well, me neither. I just looked up some picks of both setups. I might now be more inclined to follow your lead. Anyway, How much do Forge Stars usually go for anyway?


WonderDude, glad you posted that tire/wheel size comparison site, I have been using that one for years, glad to know someone else knows about it :)

LOL! I probably got it from you! ;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

How do you know what size tire won't fit when you don't ask for rim width? Doh!

Craig,
Choose your tire on Tire Rack's site then click "specs". It will give you all of the info including recommended rim widths. For example take a look here and you'll see that for a 225/45-17 Star Spec the recommended rim width is 7"-8.5".

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1+Star+Spec&partnum=245WR8Z1SS&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&tab=Specs

Jeff

[Vman7]

lol! I probably got it from you! ;)

lol......

[Vman7]

rats!!......I keeping wanting to post this long winded postive feedback on Dave Smith & FFR on how well they have done etc. I get it all figured out in my head then I go and watch some TV and come back and I forgot most of it.....lol

You know your starting to get old when you have postit notes around the house telling where the fridge is.....lol

[Mechie3]

Well, me neither. I just looked up some picks of both setups. I might now be more inclined to follow your lead. Anyway, How much do Forge Stars usually go for anyway?


He paid $1350 for them maybe a year ago?


Craig,
Choose your tire on Tire Rack's site then click "specs". It will give you all of the info including recommended rim widths. For example take a look here and you'll see that for a 225/45-17 Star Spec the recommended rim width is 7"-8.5".

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Direzza+Sport+Z1+Star+Spec&partnum=245WR8Z1SS&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&tab=Specs

Jeff

The cool thing with the way the dunlop site used to work was it listed every tire size in a huge chart so you can just scroll up and down to see it all.

[David Hodgkins]

I've had this image for a while. Since it's post SEMA I guess it's ok to post:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13154&d=1352260599

You can see that the fronts are 225/40 ZR18's and the rears are 255/35 ZR 18's.

:)

[bstuke]

I've had this image for a while. Since it's post SEMA I guess it's ok to post:

You can see that the fronts are 225/40 ZR18's and the rears are 255/35 ZR 18's.

:)

Hiding something from us Dave? :rolleyes:

[Flamshackle]

What most of the distractors are missing is this car was built with the same philosophy as the Suburu car. A Lego.

All of the top notch contest entrance had a similar trait, they could not be modular. The current designs allow the ability to remove panels and replace as needed or if appearance warrants change. No production car I know can do this. Case in point, remove rear hatch, pin down the new Coupe hatch and purchase the targa top (bam) new look. Change the hood, front/rear faicia, quarters.... Whole different car. No need to start fresh, heck even the color will match. Even the windshield is a bolt on affair. Usually the roof lines are a dead giveaway to what car lives beneath the skin of a heavily modified car, not with this package. If you racing, one can stock additional color matched panels for repair damage. Lotus is arguably the track target for the 818, tap the front clam and not only are you out of the race, many lotus get totaled due to front clam damage.

I really think F5R thought this through and is reinventing the way cars should be made. Brilliant!!

This^^^ I am blown away by what they have achieved. I think sales will silence the tiny minority of people who have a chip on their shoulder from the design contest.

[mhoward1]

There actually have been a few production cars like that (the Original Nissan Pulsar), but not to this extent.

[flytosail]

There actually have been a few production cars like that (the Original Nissan Pulsar), but not to this extent.

Smart car has this option. One can take these swap a panel cars to the extreme. Imagine a 818 with a station wagon option?

[sidewinder]

This thread to me has been the most exciting, positive threads so far regarding the 818, if you leave out the last day's diversion. The design is very close to finalized. The responses has been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE! The SEMA show had NONE of the comments that sidewinder is rehashing.
:)

if "constructive criticism to avoid the same mistakes in future" comes across as "beating a dead horse"
then the whole point of this open source and community thing is obsolete.
of course you can deny evolution. but it won't stop it from happening.

no need to ban me (that should be the normal reaction to this statement, right?) i'm out anyway since i act. do believe in evolution. cheers

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bye.

http://fbfguns.com/images/animated/stickpeople/waving.gif

Jeff

[bstuke]

http://fbfguns.com/images/animated/stickpeople/waving.gif

[timmy318]

lol.... guys

[mhoward1]

While I don't agree with Sidewinders views, I do think he is ok to express them as long as it's done in a civil manner. I would also hope he would also see the valid points that others have made.

[D2W]

^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

[WonderDude]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!
;)

[Mechie3]

^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.




but it'll never be sexy or set anybodys hair on fire ... they should and COULD have a supercool outcome now

Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

[bobzdar]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!
;)

LMFAO, that's a good one. It's not horrible, but certainly not a Pininfarina quality design. The rear is nice, front meh. It can be fixed. If an H6 fits, I may be in, we'll see.

[WonderDude]

I'm in the camp of those who think it looks quite good! (especially for a sub-$20K car).

Still, there is allot of potential for this car because of the way they did it. #1, since it does have a somewhat generic look it will apeal to a wider range of people and allow for some of us to come up with our own creative mods. And #2, since it's modular, it opens the door for some serious creativity not only by FFR but other aftermarket companies!

I think this car is going to be one of the most inovative cars of the decade!

[Wayne Presley]

What Mechie3 said x 10. The 818R looks great in pics, amazing in person and beyond words when sitting behind the wheel :D

I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.





Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

[Xusia]

While I don't agree with Sidewinders views, I do think he is ok to express them as long as it's done in a civil manner. I would also hope he would also see the valid points that others have made.


^+1, If we can't discuss opposing views in a civil manner without being chastised for not loving everything FFR does then this does nothing to help FFR.

+1 to both of these, although it does get old to keep hearing the same thing. At some point (and Mechie3 speaks of this in his post, quoted below) we have to move on whether or not we agree/like/whatever the decision. It's a business and they aren't catering to any specific individual, they are targeting a larger group/demographic. I will go on record saying that inherently means some compromises - ESPECIALLY when you consider the price. For the price of a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc., I'd expect more. But to me FFR is delivering more than is reasonable to expect for sub $15K. Judging by the pre-orders, I'm not alone in that thinking.


I think people are just growing tired overall with people who personally don't like the styling lamenting over how it should be different. This is in contrast to people like Vman7 who know it could be different, but accept that many like it as it is as evidenced by >100 pre orders in less than a week.

There's a guy on NASIOC, pretty much everyone dislikes him, many have him on an ignore list (his posts don't show up, just a blank spot). Hip2BeSquare. The guy drives an old miata and an old SVX and has another old car of some sort. He lives in a small town in Iowa and has a very small world view. He lamented the BRZ/FRS over....and over....and over. He didn't just write quips of "I don't like it". No, he literaly wrote full page, multi paragraph tirades over why Subaru is making a huge mistake, why it should be turbo, why it should be AWD. His arguments were well written, but flawed. He personally wanted an AWD 300hp (H6) coupe for less than $25k with a manual transmission. There are very very few options like this that mostly start around $37k, out of his price range. He was personally mad that Subaru wasn't catering to him. Of course, he'd never admit he was personally mad, but it was painfully obvious to others. He wanted an inexpensive replacement to his SVX. Subaru wasn't doing that, thus, he was mad. Turns out, Subaru can't make enough BRZ/FRS coupes.

Those quotes from sidewinder are what I believe people are growing tired of. It has set peoples hair on fire (as much as I find that term odd and a bit esoteric and only used on FFR, lol) and many people think it already is supercool.

Do I love the body? It's ok. Was Vmans rear mod and whoevers Ferrari esque front mod much better IMO? Yes, but I don't rehash it over and over and over and claim the 818 is a flop when there is hard evidence to support it's, at least initially, successful.

As far as the styling goes, I agree with Mechie3. It's not what I would call "hair on fire," but it is very good looking and I'd be proud to be seen in it. I would also state that I personally don't WANT hair on fire looks. I don't want that much attention. I prefer to blend in a bit more. Subtlety is a good quality. Simplicity is elegance. Less is more... And I think the current 818 design delivers that.

[timmy318]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

[soul strife]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

Next time add a dime because that was spot on.

[Mechie3]

When I bought my 02 WRX, it had some body damage (mostly on the trunk, which I had one from my 06 left over). It has some scrapes here and there, brakes aren't the best, small ding on the hood. I kept trying to compare it to my 06 that insurance gave me $17k for. I had to remind myself the car was only $3k, it wasn't going to be, and didn't need to be, as nice as my 06 was. For the money, it was amazing. Same with the 818.

[Movieman]

Well I for one am dissapointed at FFR!

I mean it took them over a year to come up with a car that's only slightly faster than a 911, only slightly better looking than a Ferrari, and probably just bearly has the fuel economy of most standard cars. And on top of all that, I'll have to pay over $15000 to own one!!! I mean!!!

I tried to make it sound as bad as I could. I guess when you have a winner this good, it's hard to make it look like a loser!
;)

excellent!

[timmy318]

Next time add a dime because that was spot on.

lo, thanks :D

[PhyrraM]

To comment on, and maybe put into perspective, the subject of repeating common areas of discussion.

When a post has to do with the (much discussed) styling of the 818 it always ends up in "enough already".

However, when a post asks the (much discussed) question of the H6 or auto tranny, it usually ends up in a fairly healthly discussion - even if it may have started with "search fool".

To me, both situations are pretty much the same. We live with them both, and choose to stay out of threads that we, personally, don't feel like propagating. They will die on there own without all the finger-pointing if allowed to. Even a "take it somewhere else" post is counter to the effort your trying to make (unless the goal is simpley pot-stirring). Now, if you enjoy the conversation, like I sometimes do, by all means discuss. If you truely feel a person is a troll, don't feed them.....anything....ever.....especially after dark. (And for goodness sake, DON'T GET THEM WET!)

[DrieStone]

IMHO, I think that for a car that is sub $15K this is a killer deal! On this thread alone there're many many gripes! It's fine to gripe about the 818 but don't keep restating what other people said in other ways. Especially don't start to think that FFR is going to cater to your personal needs/wants. FFR could've designed this car by themselves without any input from the community. BUT, they didn't and they asked for our input and this is how the 818 turned out. Sure, it's not the nicest car BUT it only costs $15K. If you truly want a sexy looking car go buy a ferrari, lambo or other car that fits your needs. In all seriousness I think that the 818 turned perfect! IMHO, the rear end is a clean slate to where we can add our personal touch. Just adding my two cents in....

I'm in total agreement (and I'm one of the "complainers") that the 818 is a steal. I'll also admit to the "restating" usually what I've already said. I think it happens because we feel strongly about it. I also have been very careful not to seem like I hate the car, or that I'm here just to complain.

I'll make two points. First, I think that saying "it only costs $15k" is an excuse. I certainly didn't expect "no compromises", after all this was all pulled together (2 cars, etc), in an insane amount of time. $15k is a great deal, but that was only one of the goals of the project.

I do find it interesting that you point out the rear end. I wouldn't change the rear of the car, I think it's one of the best features of the current body. It's the front that I don't like. I know people have been mocking up the front facia, and it's helped significantly, but there's some scale and angle issues with the hood and fenders that have never worked right, and that stuff hasn't changed much since Jim's original model. Those are not the kinds of things that you can just "make your own".

I've said it before. I love the idea of the 818. I REALLY want to build one. I'm just not sold on the current incarnation, I'm not saying "no", but I'm struggling to find a way to say "yes".

I know I'm the minority here. I'll admit that my response is an emotional response based on some (perhaps unreal) expectations of the competition. I'll also say that as a Lotus owner, and someone who would build a Stratos kit if it was easier to do, I was hoping for something that was fitting of cars of that style/class rather than an MR2.

[David Hodgkins]

This thread has definitely gone down a rathole. The last few pages have NOTHING to do with getting the 818 ready for SEMA.

It has run it's course and I'm closing it.