That's a slick mounting setup, Tim. Nice work! I mounted my motor, but now rethinking it a bit. It would probably wiser of me to make it removable (from the front) in case maintenance is needed. Do you think rivet nuts (AKA nut serts) would work? I'm thinking of adding ~1/4" thick slices of hose as vibration dampeners between the rivet nuts and the motor housing. Thoughts?
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That's a slick mounting setup, Tim. Nice work! I mounted my motor, but now rethinking it a bit. It would probably wiser of me to make it removable (from the front) in case maintenance is needed. Do you think rivet nuts (AKA nut serts) would work? I'm thinking of adding ~1/4" thick slices of hose as vibration dampeners between the rivet nuts and the motor housing. Thoughts?
Thanks Chris. Thinking about your question my response is "I'm not sure". I say that because I don't know how much the motor torques against the housing when it's actually running with the tubes, drive wire and wipers connected. I think the challenge is you have to use relatively small rivet nuts in .040 aluminum. And the motor is heavy enough on my install that it bows the firewall forward a bit. I do think given it's location the nuts on the inside of the firewall could be accessible. You'd have to push the AC hoses out of the way but I think it could be done.
While I was fiddling around with this I was thinking to myself, what are the odds of ever having to remove the wiper motor and the response was "virtually zero". I know it's good practice to make items serviceable but in this instance I'm not sure how critical it is. With that said, the motor is very quiet and smooth so I'm not sure any vibration damping is even necessary. Probably not the clearest response but I think Paul is probably the only one on the forum that has used his wipers and can provide feedback.
In preparation for the engine and transmission installation, I needed to set my car down (first time on her shoes) and raised both the front and back ends using cribbing I had put together for a previous project. I have the back end 4 or 5 inches higher than the front, which is only high enough to allow the legs of my hoist to slide under.
I then proceeded to install the bellhousing backer plate. I also remembered to stick the sensor ring on prior which I had removed about 3 months ago. Reading @Blitzboy's trials with this I made sure to keep it handy as it is something I would forget.
Then popped on the clutch and pressure plate. I had a moment of panic when I realized I had 3 bolts left over but realized after a quick search that was normal. There are both 6 and 9 bolt pressure plates out there and the bolt kit is one box does all. I also had to put a few wraps of tape on the nose of my clutch installation tool as the I.D. of the bearing was slightly larger than my tool. It fit the clutch disc perfectly, just not the thrust bearing. Pretty sure I have the disc well centered (I will know for sure tomorrow).
I did have one question though. In past installation posts I have seen guys torquing these pressure plates to something like 46 ft lbs then 60 degrees. My information says 12 - 24 ft lbs and that's it. Is this a change from Gen 3 to Gen 4? If you download the Coyote torque spec from Summit Racing it has the higher number but I think it might be old data. Going to call Ford Racing tomorrow and double check but their installation sheet calls out the lower number as well.
And then final installation of the QT bellhousing. Sharp eyed viewers will note there are some bolts missing from the perimeter which hold the scattershield to the blocking plate. There are at least two bolts which for any number of reasons can't be used on the Coyote. I simply chose to leave them off as they probably have little to no bearing on my application. One of them has a large boss in the way so no chance of installing it whether I wanted to or not.
Tomorrow is transmission bolt up and engine installation. I put off installing the engine as long as I possibly could to allow for movement in the engine compartment and haven't regretted it but it's time. There are about 18 things on the white board I can't move forward on because the drive train is not installed. Next posts should show the powerplant in its new home.
You're making great progress. Huge milestone to get the engine installed. I see you have an SFI Quicktime bell housing. Must be the RM-8080. Same as my Coupe. Pretty sure this is the only option for a Coyote/T56 combination. I suspect you know this already, but it's going to hang below the frame. The attached picture is from my build. Trimmed it off which negated those bottom three mounting bolts. Perhaps affects its SFI rating but not an issue for me. Makes a similar configuration as the non-SFI versions for other combinations. Perhaps these are the bolts you say you didn't install? I don't recall having an issue with any of the remaining bolts on mine.
Exciting progress! I had no issues with any of the holes on the bell housing and the backing plate. It’s a little unclear from your post but some bolts don’t go into the Coyote but into the blocking plate and with a washer/nut on the back.
For torque specs, I normally check the expected torque for the bolt size, grade and pitch when I have conflicting information. Physics is physics. However, 60 ft lbs + 60 degrees sounds too high.
You're making great progress. Huge milestone to get the engine installed. I see you have an SFI Quicktime bell housing. Must be the RM-8080. Same as my Coupe. Pretty sure this is the only option for a Coyote/T56 combination. I suspect you know this already, but it's going to hang below the frame. The attached picture is from my build. Trimmed it off which negated those bottom three mounting bolts. Perhaps affects its SFI rating but not an issue for me. Makes a similar configuration as the non-SFI versions for other combinations. Perhaps these are the bolts you say you didn't install? I don't recall having an issue with any of the remaining bolts on mine.
Hi Paul - thanks for the encouragement. Yep, same combo as you used in your coupe. I had previously trimmed the bellhousing quite some time ago actually so good to go there. I think that shaved off three of those bolts at the bottom. The other three are at approximately 11 and 1 and 3 o'clock when facing the bellhousing. Looking closely at your install picture, I don't think you installed them either:
Exciting progress! I had no issues with any of the holes on the bell housing and the backing plate. It’s a little unclear from your post but some bolts don’t go into the Coyote but into the blocking plate and with a washer/nut on the back.
For torque specs, I normally check the expected torque for the bolt size, grade and pitch when I have conflicting information. Physics is physics. However, 60 ft lbs + 60 degrees sounds too high.
It is exciting! Particularly because I have somewhat hit a wall with moving so many things forward without the engine installed. I used my premier photoshop skills to show the bolts I did not install. They are specifically the backing plate to bellhousing attachment bolts. The 11 o'clock bolt was so fiddly and space restricted I made the command decision to skip it. The 1 o'clock and 3 o'clock bolts were blocked by aluminum casting bosses on the backside so those were non-starters. Since the SFI rating was toast the moment I trimmed an inch and a half off the bottom of the unit I'm not really concerned.
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Hi Paul - thanks for the encouragement. Yep, same combo as you used in your coupe. I had previously trimmed the bellhousing quite some time ago actually so good to go there. I think that shaved off three of those bolts at the bottom. The other three are at approximately 11 and 1 and 3 o'clock when facing the bellhousing. Looking closely at your install picture, I don't think you installed them either.
Figured you'd be all over that. But mentioned it anyway considering how much that hangs down. You're right. Looked at my pictures and I don't have bolts in those three spots either. Not sure the reason. But according to my notes assembled the bell to the engine on 11/21/2018. So I have a good excuse not to remember.
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Well, after a bit of investigative work I did determine the torque specs I had originally were incorrect. I found the Ford Racing tech sheet for my pressure plate and the bolt kit. These require 46 ft. lbs. with an additional 60 twist. This is done in a two step process. So, off with the bellhousing and starter, torqued the bolts appropriately and reinstalled and torqued the bellhousing and starter.
For those wondering (if anyone is) how I perform the 60 degree final tightening is like so. I use a 1/2" drive ratchet (It's longer than my 3/8" and helps me visualize) and a 12 point socket. I position the handle at either 3 or 9 o'clock i.e. parallel with the floor and then guesstimate where 2/3 of the way to 6 o'clock or noon is i.e. 5 or 11 and turn till the handle is somewhere in that vicinity. I am sure it is not terribly precise but I am probably coming in between 58 and 62 degrees with a decent amount of consistency. I have never looked but I am sure there are meters or something you can use to obtain a more precise process. I have a magnetic angle finder I could probably stick on the shaft of the ratchet and fine tune it a couple of degrees but haven't done so yet.
I now need to remove the item on top of the engine that is in the way of installation as well as pop off the alternator. Once those are off, I think I am ready to shoe horn it in there. For what it's worth, the T-56 is a beast compared to the TKO in my Camaro. I am guessing it's all of 25% larger in almost all dimensions. I'm looking forward to rowing through all 6 gears.
I'd say you're good enough eyeballing the 60°. Most people out there replacing clutches in their cars aren't even picking up a torque wrench which is scary.
Amazing how quickly things can change. Went out to the shop after having a bite for lunch. I was planning on installing the transmission. And I found this:
As near as I can tell, tracing the wet trail from the ground up, it looks (and feels) like its leaking out the top of the valve body. Just a guess but I am assuming the internals failed after having the car's weight on it for a week or so. Probably bad from the factory if I had to guess.
...For those wondering (if anyone is) how I perform the 60 degree final tightening is like so. I use a 1/2" drive ratchet (It's longer than my 3/8" and helps me visualize) and a 12 point socket. I position the handle at either 3 or 9 o'clock i.e. parallel with the floor and then guesstimate where 2/3 of the way to 6 o'clock or noon is i.e. 5 or 11 and turn till the handle is somewhere in that vicinity. I am sure it is not terribly precise but I am probably coming in between 58 and 62 degrees with a decent amount of consistency. I have never looked but I am sure there are meters or something you can use to obtain a more precise process...
Tim,
60 degrees is easy; it's just one flat on a hex head bolt. After you reach the specified torque just make a reference mark on the flex plate, flywheel or whatever that matches up to one of the points on the hex:
Then turn the bolt until the next hex point reaches your reference mark:
That's your 60 degrees!
If you contact FFR they'll help you get a warranty replacement from Koni.
Amazing how quickly things can change. Went out to the shop after having a bite for lunch. I was planning on installing the transmission. And I found this:
As near as I can tell, tracing the wet trail from the ground up, it looks (and feels) like its leaking out the top of the valve body. Just a guess but I am assuming the internals failed after having the car's weight on it for a week or so. Probably bad from the factory if I had to guess.
That is a bummer! One of my front hubs decided to start leaking grease on my floor after install, not sure what was up with that. I can probably blame it on Covid since I got my car during that time.
That is a bummer! One of my front hubs decided to start leaking grease on my floor after install, not sure what was up with that. I can probably blame it on Covid since I got my car during that time.
They are sending me a new shock but still a little annoying. I guess as soon as it had some weight on it the seal gave way. I think it leaked almost 1/2 cup of oil.
They are sending me a new shock but still a little annoying. I guess as soon as it had some weight on it the seal gave way. I think it leaked almost 1/2 cup of oil.
That is good to know since mine still has not had weight on it, I could be in the same boat as you. So far it has been the front hub and the master cylinders.
Reached a milestone today – the Coyote is home. I can’t begin to state what a great asset this forum is for all the little details one needs to pay attention to in order to shoehorn one these into fairly size-limited engine bay. Just a few details of the install:
Used my 20-year-old crane on the one-ton setting, which is the second from the longest. I thought about pushing it out to the ½ ton setting but figured it wasn’t necessary. This was almost a major oops. I can’t say enough good things about the lifting plate I purchased from Summit Racing. I rotated the hook on my lift so it was perpendicular to the installation direction. This allowed the engine to pivot very easily from the middle hole. I decided I wanted more tilt angle rather than less, as I thought it’s easier to jack up the tail shaft than it is to push down on it since I did this alone.
I followed many forum member recommendations, which I think ultimately made this 90-minute installation go smoother than it could have. I think I mentioned previously that I had uninstalled the device on top of the PS valve cover. I also removed the alternator. Both of these were recommendations from @edwardb and were necessary. I did make the mistake of not installing my Energy Suspension transmission mount, mostly because I was confused by the bolt selection that came with the mount. There are two shorter grade 8 bolts, 4 flat washers and 2 lock washers. I originally assumed these were for mounting the urethane mount to the transmission but this is incorrect. These bolts go through the chassis transmission mount into the Energy Suspension mount. I could not find the correct bolts to bolt the mount to the transmission itself so I decided this was a problem for later.
Other than this minor issue the drive train slipped right in. A little forward, a little down. Rinse and repeat. I did use a dead blow hammer to ensure my wheels on my crane were straight which made bumping it forward very easy. It’s still early in the install but the only point of interference I have noticed is this harness bracket on the front of the Coyote DS head. It definitely interferes with the drive shaft. I will probably pop it off the bolt and relocate by an inch or two. Other than this, not much else to report. I miraculously did remember to take the time to snap some progress pics. Probably more than anyone wants to look at but here they are:
Transmission installed on engine
This was a bit of a bear and a wrestling match. I broke most of the gospel rules by pulling it closed with 1/2 turns of all the bolts at the end. My son and I got it in with all but 1/2" to go but it simply refused to nestle in that last little bit. Didn't feel like it was particularly binding, just really tight. Easily pulled closed and I am pretty certain it is good to go. You can also see in this picture my Bowler reverse lockout module and wiring. This is a pretty slick little unit and is blue tooth capable for setup from your phone.
Harness Interference Point I hadn't heard of anyone else commenting on this but it's definitely an issue for my install. Not difficult to address but certainly not something I will leave as is.
The Coyote sure does take up a lot more space than my LS, so good job fitting it in there
First start tomorrow? Jk
Thanks Jim. Probably more than a day or two from first start. Yeah, the Coyote is a bit wide. It's interesting how Detroit engineers differ in their approaches. LS engines are essentially the same size in overall dimensions as the the original Chevy small blocks. But the Coyote took a hard left when compared to an original 289 and as near as I can tell added about a foot to the overall width.
Thanks Jim. Probably more than a day or two from first start. Yeah, the Coyote is a bit wide. It's interesting how Detroit engineers differ in their approaches. LS engines are essentially the same size in overall dimensions as the the original Chevy small blocks. But the Coyote took a hard left when compared to an original 289 and as near as I can tell added about a foot to the overall width.
At the risk of stating the obvious, these two engines represent a different approach to making power. GM is making power with displacement. Ford chose to make the Coyote an air-breathing machine for power which meant 4 valves per piston, double overhead variable cams, etc. All that has to go somewhere. Ford further pushed that with turbos on nearly all their engines now. Neither is right or wrong IMO. Just different corporate philosophies.
Congrats on the installation Tim! It's a big step and feels good, right? That "device on top of the PS valve cover" is the high pressure pump for the direct injection. It's run off a cam on that side. The interference on the LH front corner is a know issue. I recall it's mentioned in the FF Coyote installation manual. Regardless, easy enough to fix. Remove the plastic piece and tie-wrap the cables to the threaded stud. Pulls is far enough away from the steering column. You probably figured that out by now.
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At the risk of stating the obvious, these two engines represent a different approach to making power. GM is making power with displacement. Ford chose to make the Coyote an air-breathing machine for power which meant 4 valves per piston, double overhead variable cams, etc. All that has to go somewhere. Ford further pushed that with turbos on nearly all their engines now. Neither is right or wrong IMO. Just different corporate philosophies.
Congrats on the installation Tim! It's a big step and feels good, right? That "device on top of the PS valve cover" is the high pressure pump for the direct injection. It's run off a cam on that side. The interference on the LH front corner is a know issue. I recall it's mentioned in the FF Coyote installation manual. Regardless, easy enough to fix. Remove the plastic piece and tie-wrap the cables to the threaded stud. Pulls is far enough away from the steering column. You probably figured that out by now.
For sure Paul, I was simply comparing dimensions. Both suit their engineered purposes pretty darn well. I must have the harness thing in the manual. I've probably read it 6 or 8 times but those little things don't stick. But you're right, very easy fix compared to some other things.
I spent the afternoon today bolting back on the injector pump, the intake manifold and connecting all the various wires which had been disconnected. I had decided to install the transmission mount and driveshaft but ran into situation which had me scratching my head. The manual calls out installing the chassis mount above the welded platforms on the frame. However, with the Energy Suspension transmission mount bolted up, the transmission will not go up enough to clear the plate. The shifter plate hits the frame member which limits any further upward travel.
Lying there looking at it, I figured OK, they haven't fixed this since Paul's build, and the plate needs to be bolted up from underneath, which will provide about 3/8" of drop. Unfortunately, the transmission plate doesn't fit within the welded area. I would need to grind the plate to squeeze it in there and there isn't much meat to start with. Unless I hear differently, I am going to get out my flap disc (on my freshly powder coated mount) and grind material until it will fit on the underside. The only other option would be a shorter Energy Suspension transmission mount. I'm all ears if anyone has a different thought on this.
I spent the afternoon today bolting back on the injector pump, the intake manifold and connecting all the various wires which had been disconnected. I had decided to install the transmission mount and driveshaft but ran into situation which had me scratching my head. The manual calls out installing the chassis mount above the welded platforms on the frame. However, with the Energy Suspension transmission mount bolted up, the transmission will not go up enough to clear the plate. The shifter plate hits the frame member which limits any further upward travel.
Lying there looking at it, I figured OK, they haven't fixed this since Paul's build, and the plate needs to be bolted up from underneath, which will provide about 3/8" of drop. Unfortunately, the transmission plate doesn't fit within the welded area. I would need to grind the plate to squeeze it in there and there isn't much meat to start with. Unless I hear differently, I am going to get out my flap disc (on my freshly powder coated mount) and grind material until it will fit on the underside. The only other option would be a shorter Energy Suspension transmission mount. I'm all ears if anyone has a different thought on this.
I do recall doing the same, flipping the mount plate and trimming it to get an ideal fit.
Big milestone Tim! One issue you might want to look at is the placement of your remote battery hookups. I believe your upper radiator hose snakes thru this same area. Not room for both.
Big milestone Tim! One issue you might want to look at is the placement of your remote battery hookups. I believe your upper radiator hose snakes thru this same area. Not room for both.
Scott
Thanks Scott and thanks for the heads up. I hadn't even thought about that. I bought the Boig's cool tubes so I guess I'll have to do a test fit. They don't hang below the angled tube so maybe there is still room? I can always move or delete them if needed.
Thanks Scott and thanks for the heads up. I hadn't even thought about that. I bought the Boig's cool tubes so I guess I'll have to do a test fit. They don't hang below the angled tube so maybe there is still room? I can always move or delete them if needed.
I know I have a different engine, but I have the radiator hose and even a discharge tank in that space and it's fine. And if it doesn't hang below the frame rail, then I don't see a problem
Congrats! It's a great feeling when completing this kind of milestone - and I think this is part of why we build these cars, we just love building things - it's so nice to see it come together!!
Jim Phoenix
Coupe-R delivered 8/10/2024
289 USRRC, F5R1011063RD - delivered same day
Coupe-R has a Ford Performance 363 mated to a TKX, 18084.
Many details on my Coupe-R are different from a typical Coupe build because mine is not street legal, race only.
289 has a BP 302 mated to a TKX 18084.
"For a little more, you can do it yourself." - Ed Hollingsworth... 6-Pack forums
Congrats, sir! Appreciate the tips and reminders on the interference points, etc. Duly noted for what I hope will be 2-3 months until it's my turn. Well done!
Chris Coupe complete kit.Index. Delivered: 4/22/24. Build Thread. Coyote Gen 4X. T-56. IRS w/3.55. Wilwoods. PS. HVAC. Side windows. MK4 Complete kit. Build Thread Index. Delivered: 10/15/2020. Legal: 7/25/23. Coyote Gen3. TKO600 (0.64 OD). IRS w/3.55. PS. Wilwoods. Sway bars. This build is dedicated to my son, Benjamin. Build Thread.
Stuffed that turkey like a champ Even though you might have interference I am super jealous of your remote battery terminals. Really wish I had thought to do that too.
I know I have a different engine, but I have the radiator hose and even a discharge tank in that space and it's fine. And if it doesn't hang below the frame rail, then I don't see a problem
I test fit the hose today and I am good to go. It basically rides right under that area and between the two posts.
Congrats! It's a great feeling when completing this kind of milestone - and I think this is part of why we build these cars, we just love building things - it's so nice to see it come together!!
It is very gratifying to make these moves. This is the ultimate Erector set!
Today I tackled the transmission mount. Like all good projects that seem simple this one turned into a serious chore. I ground down the areas of interference on my transmission crossmember and if fit perfectly. So it made sense to install the driveshaft while the transmission was free. Unfortunately, this led to me getting my aerobic and resistance training with my driveshaft. I lowered the transmission down as much as I could and could not get the driveshaft in.
One of the things about building a car like this is learning from others and trying to see 20 steps ahead. Even with that I didn't realize when the transmission is dropped it is forced to the DS. Because of this my driveshaft hoop which I had very carefully measured and welded in 4 months ago was now in the way. I could not get the driveshaft in with the vertical in the way. So, out came the cutoff wheel and out it went for now. Once clear of that obstacle I was able to slide the driveshaft in and confirmed my hoop does fit correctly but I will be bolting the cut off piece back in place so it is 100% removable without a cutoff wheel . Live and learn I guess.
I finally got these fabbed up. I decided long ago I wanted sliders. I wanted to mount my seats as far aft as possible and allow the sliders to adjust the seat forward to a comfortable driving position. I tried to figure out a way to mount the sliders directly to the existing pan and structure but that was a non-starter. I either couldn't catch a bolt in the pan, or I was bouncing off the side of a frame rail, or both. So I embarked on a bracket project that became a little more of a project than I thought but they turned out really well. I essentially welded up an "H" shaped bracket that I could bolt to my sliders. In order to do this I had to weld receiving nuts inside the slider half to receive bolts. I then used the smaller cross bars to allow for four bolts within the confines of the seat pan on the car. I used caged nuts for those and attached them with countersunk rivets. I had to JB Weld some 1/4" spacers between the bracket and the mounting bolts to account for the other four bolt heads which attach the bracket to the slider. You can just see the spacers peeking out from under the cross bars.
So essentially the seat will be sitting on the four bolt heads and the four round spacers. 3/8" bolts up through the floor seat pan hold the whole thing in place and it's rock solid.
So I have been focusing on getting the engine compartment finished up. This included installing the power steering lines and doing a little side to side purge. Unfortunately, I think I hit a bit of a wall. My power steering parts came with three fittings. One was a 90 degree black anodized fitting for the upper connection on the KRC pump. The other two fittings are -6 AN to 5/8" NPS or BPS, I'm not sure which. One of them will thread nicely into the top female port of the steering rack. However, the lower port appears to be 9/16" instead of 5/8"? I tried to fit my calipers in there but it's pretty tight. Visually, it might look slightly smaller, not sure. I revisited the Factory Five KRC instructions but they are still dated 2017 and not very accurate for today's equipment.
So, in a nutshell, I am not sure what to think. I believe one of the two fitting is incorrect and will call Factory Five in the morning so steering line install is on hold at the moment. These are the two identical fittings:
So I have been focusing on getting the engine compartment finished up. This included installing the power steering lines and doing a little side to side purge. Unfortunately, I think I hit a bit of a wall. My power steering parts came with three fittings. One was a 90 degree black anodized fitting for the upper connection on the KRC pump. The other two fittings are -6 AN to 5/8" NPS or BPS, I'm not sure which. One of them will thread nicely into the top female port of the steering rack. However, the lower port appears to be 9/16" instead of 5/8"? I tried to fit my calipers in there but it's pretty tight. Visually, it might look slightly smaller, not sure. I revisited the Factory Five KRC instructions but they are still dated 2017 and not very accurate for today's equipment.
So, in a nutshell, I am not sure what to think. I believe one of the two fitting is incorrect and will call Factory Five in the morning so steering line install is on hold at the moment. These are the two identical fittings:
According to Google and Breeze's site they are this.
The 1993 Ford Mustang (Fox Body) power steering rack uses two different sized SAE O-ring ports for the hydraulic lines. The pressure port is 9/16"-18 and the return port is 5/8"-18.
According to Google and Breeze's site they are this.
The 1993 Ford Mustang (Fox Body) power steering rack uses two different sized SAE O-ring ports for the hydraulic lines. The pressure port is 9/16"-18 and the return port is 5/8"-18.
Thanks Brent, that explains it. For some reason F5 sent me 2 5/8" fittings. Giving them a call now.
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Originally Posted by 460.465USMC
. Live and learn I guess.