Frustrated with FFR

[sasteel43]

Well, after a wonderful and surprising phone conversation with Dave Smith on Saturday, things have gone dark again. I completely understand how busy they are, but I have heard from nobody since, and with the upcoming factory shutdown I'm a little concerned to say the least. I'm definitely trying to stay patient and optimistic, but I'm at a stand still. I'm holding on to my faith in FFR that they'll come through in the end.

[racingandfishing]

Wow very disappointing...Unless it is unknowingly on the way, that is a pretty big miss on the commitment from Dave Smith.

With the upcoming system changeover/shut down and given the replacement chassis was already made, I would have rented a Uhaul and paid someone to bring it to you and swap it out. Probably less than a grand all in, problem solved and not a distraction for the team during the changeover - and a satisfied customer.

[JohnK]

Dude, about a thousand people have told you that Dave and the FFR crew will come through. Dave personally posted here and called you. As has been said, they're in the middle of a huge enterprise software system rollout. Chill out. They'll take care of you.

[sasteel43]

Dude, about a thousand people have told you that Dave and the FFR crew will come through. Dave personally posted here and called you. As has been said, they're in the middle of a huge enterprise software system rollout. Chill out. They'll take care of you.

Oh, so if a "thousand people" say so, it must be all good. I'm sure you'd just lay back and "chill out" if you were in this situation. Give me a break, "dude".

[Nigel Allen]

My kit was sent with the wrong weight springs for IRS (I know it's hardly in the same league as an incorrect chassis but I am 11,000 miles away from support, so not without some stress). I didn't pick this up until I put the car on the ground and found excessive sag on the rear. This was nearly 2 years after delivery and long after the local FFR reseller had gone out of business. I contacted FFR to see what was the correct coil spring for the IRS. Not only did they give me the information straight away, but also said they would ship new springs to Australia at their expense. way beyond what I expected. Had the springs in my hands in less than 2 weeks. Everyone makes a mistake now and then, it's how you fix it that makes the difference.

I figure we are all just trying to help you put your mind at rest. Keep the faith. It will be worth it.

[Peeker]

If there is one (or 2) things that someone says to me that really gets my goat is when someone says “chill out” or “relax”. I will probably do the opposite of what you tell me. Let the guy vent. It’s his project and he is not getting the response he is anticipating. All he is asking for is communication. I’ve been trying to sit back and not say something but when someone tells me how I should react…maybe I should just delete this and not say something like some other individuals here should have done. Good luck sasteel.

[racingandfishing]

Dude, about a thousand people have told you that Dave and the FFR crew will come through. Dave personally posted here and called you. As has been said, they're in the middle of a huge enterprise software system rollout. Chill out. They'll take care of you.

I know I am setting myself up here for more negative comments, but there was a commitment made by the President/Owner of the company that was not kept - simple as that.

That says far more than 1000 people (more like a handful) posting their positive experiences from the past.

For 30 years I've managed through major system changes, consolidating and moving warehouses, etc. while managing 10 thousand plus items with thousands of customers, including through Covid and a host of other supply chain issues. You still have to take care of customers and communicate with them.

This would have been very easy to fix.

The chassis just needed to get put on a truck and a call made to the customer. They could have worried about the whole exchange part after they are back up and running again.

[Mike.Bray]

I cannot imagine what the OP is going through. I'm sure like most of us his decision to purchase a kit from FFR was one he thought long and hard about. Not to mention the large outlay of money. (that he probably had to convince his wife to let him spend) He pulls the trigger and for 10 months his excitement, enthusiasm, and anticipation builds and builds and builds. I think on the morning of my delivery I was up at 5 AM and standing outside waiting for the big truck. Thank God I was his number one delivery that day! This is not a small disappointment, this is on an unimageable level.

Okay mistakes happen. I've dealt with customers for over 40 years and one thing I've learned is companies are judged by how they react to problems. To me the lack of communication in this situation is very disappointing. No news is always assumed to be bad news. I'm constantly amazed how at no time in history have humans had more ways of instantly communicating with any other human on earth yet we seem to be getting worse instead of better.

I think if it was me I would be making calls, leaving messages, sending emails, posting on FFR's FB page, keeping this thread going, sending DM's, Google reviews, and any other way I could find to communicate that I need this huge problem corrected ASAP. Three times a day or more. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Hang in there OP, it's always darkest before the dawn.

[racingandfishing]

[/B]That's what Dave said he was doing, yet the op still complains???? Does he expect it to show up the next day? It takes time to arrange for pickup & shipping, it's a FRAME, not something you just stick in a box and FedEx.

If you read Dave's post, he did not do what he said he would do.

As far as getting it shipped, it is that easy. You call a freight broker like CH Robinson, they find you a carrier and make all of the arrangements. Sometimes even the same day. All you have to do is let them show up and put it on the truck. It is a way of doing business and nothing new. Worst case, you rent a Uhaul and pay someone to drive it there.

Just my two cents.

[mrmustang]

Well, after a wonderful and surprising phone conversation with Dave Smith on Saturday, things have gone dark again. I completely understand how busy they are, but I have heard from nobody since, and with the upcoming factory shutdown I'm a little concerned to say the least. I'm definitely trying to stay patient and optimistic, but I'm at a stand still. I'm holding on to my faith in FFR that they'll come through in the end.

So on Saturday-8/20/2022 at 3:30pm (EST) Dave posted the following:

You have my word that your new chassis is already made and awaiting shipping. First thing on Monday I will make sure that if Stewart is not available, I will have another carrier get the new chassis and pick up the existing one at your home in Texas as soon as humanly possible. I may swap out the body as well depending on whether you've removed it or not.

Dave Smith
President

That starts the ball rolling for Dave at 7am (I'm sure like myself, he is at the shop early every day he is there) 8/22/2022, 3 days later, at 8:25pm last night, you made the post quoted above. Let's take a small step back for a moment and realize that Dave can only do so much as far as shippers go, and that the logistics of shipping a body and chassis is not always the easiest to book, as it takes up valuable space in the back of a trucking companies trailer. Even if they crate it, most shipping companies do not want to take it, as the logistics of moving it around from truck to terminal and then truck to truck, or truck to terminal again, are a real headache. With that said, again, take a step back, a deep breath, and calm yourself. I've known Dave Smith since 1996, have never purchased a kit directly from him new, but have privately built 17 FFR's, (countless others restored/rebuilt/painted, but 17 personally owned) and put the finishing touches on their (mine, again, personally owned) original silver "prototype" Spyder (might be before your time), if there was ever an issue with any of the kits laid on my doorstep, Dave and crew made it right, even though I was not the original purchaser. Why, simple, they pride themselves on making the customer happy, even at times, like this, when their own mistakes cost them their profit margin. Dave will have set that ball in motion,when he said he would, but he cannot control the trucking industry, or their timelines. He said he will get it to you as fast as humanly possible, and he will. Less than a week has transpired since your original post, and Dave's response here, honestly, do you think your last post complaining about things going dark may have been a little premature? I'd think at least a 14 day time period would have been sufficient to make it right, but then, I've owned my own businesses, with countless suppliers/vendors, and know what happens behind the scenes a little more than most. Again, I ask you to remain patient, for your sake.

Humbly submitted by,

Bill S.

[sasteel43]

Quote Originally Posted by rich grsc View Post
[/B]That's what Dave said he was doing, yet the op still complains???? Does he expect it to show up the next day? It takes time to arrange for pickup & shipping, it's a FRAME, not something you just stick in a box and FedEx.


I guess I missed this reply, and it seems to have disappeared. Rich, where did I say I expected it the next day???? As I've said more than once, I'm troubled by the lack of communication.

[rich grsc]

I removed it, was out of place and unnecessary

[sasteel43]

I removed it, was out of place and unnecessary

It's all good, Rich. I'm just frustrated. I didn't want this to turn into a bash FFR thread. I'm still super excited for this build, and I know FFR makes an amazing product. That's why I chose them. I know it'll all work out. Thanks.

[racingandfishing]

People thinking this is difficult to ship timely are incorrect. FFR is in a densely populated area near major interstates and this isn't like trying to ship something that doesn't fit in a conventional trailer or a Uhaul. There is plenty of freight activity taking place in that geographic and brokers can find carriers. It is simply a matter of cost. A carrier will run one pallet from coast to coast with the rest of the trailer being empty - as long as you are willing to pay for the whole trailer.

This is starting to feel more like the chassis isn't available and they didn't have one that did not already have a delivery date appointment. Otherwise, why would they be ghosting the customer and allowing this negativity to continue to take place.

Regardless, I believe the lack of communication is a very big part of the issue.

[narly1]

I don't normally pile on to discussions like this one as I don't think there is much positive to add but in this case I think there is.

Other than the fact that the replacement frame has yet to show up, there is no proof that the promise (of it being sent as soon as humanly possible) is not being fulfilled.

If anything it would seem that there was an undefined expectation as to what "as soon as humanly possible" means and that there would be further and timely communication as to the resolution process for this situation in the coming days.

The key word here being communication.

My instincts are that if one of the two parties involved here had of reached out to the other late Monday or on Tuesday we wouldn't be having this conversation.

In a world where we can be anything choose to be kind.

Earl

[robmccon]

Sasteel43, just to give you some hope, the same exact thing happened to me last month. Chassis was supposed to be setup for IRS, but when it was delivered, found that that it was for a solid axle. Factory Five owned up to it right away and worked with Stewart Transport to get the incorrect one picked up and the new one shipped. It did take some time (29 days to be exact). Communication was good during that time (both Factory Five and Stewart Transport).

[Jeff Kleiner]

Lots of talk from some folks with no horse in the race….and that’s all I have to say about that.

Jeff

[Sdonnel]

Let's look at this for what it is. A learning experience. Mis-ships happen and the good companies learn from them so it doesn't happen again. Better companies bend over backwards. The best companies do what Dave Smith does every day. He owns it and resolves it in a public manner. I'm glad to hear that FFR did the right thing. They always do.

[Dave Smith]

Thomas,

The frame is built and it is scheduled for one of two Stewart trucks that are here a week from Monday (the shut down is interrupting a lot of work for sure but not your problem).When we spoke on the phone I got the clear feeling that it wasn't a day-to-day rush so I did not call a private carrier since Stewart was available within 2 weeks and they have the hoists/equipment to do the job safely. I did not follow up with you promptly and that is my fault, apologies. I did give you my cell phone and told you to call me or text anytime with questions! But since we are going to communicate here rather than on my cell phone, please let me know if the Stewart Transport pick up between Tuesday 6th and Thursday the 8th is satisfactory. Otherwise I will contact a private carrier at my expense. lmk

Dave Smith

[sasteel43]

Thomas,

The frame is built and it is scheduled for one of two Stewart trucks that are here a week from Monday (the shut down is interrupting a lot of work for sure but not your problem).When we spoke on the phone I got the clear feeling that it wasn't a day-to-day rush so I did not call a private carrier since Stewart was available within 2 weeks and they have the hoists/equipment to do the job safely. I did not follow up with you promptly and that is my fault, apologies. I did give you my cell phone and told you to call me or text anytime with questions! But since we are going to communicate here rather than on my cell phone, please let me know if the Stewart Transport pick up between Tuesday 6th and Thursday the 8th is satisfactory. Otherwise I will contact a private carrier at my expense. lmk

Dave Smith

That'll work

[BradCraig]

Frustrating thread...these matters are better not handled on here because it always goes south. Based on above, you had Dave's personal cell # you could have called.

[Dave Smith]

The complexity of building your own car is HUGE. The truth is that the complexity of building the chassis, bodies, and 4,000 other parts.. and doing this 10x a week is even more challenging. Covid has wrecked soo much and we've struggled thru issues I wouldn't waste your time with. Bottom line is that we work for you and I have never ever allowed anyone who works for me to forget that. If you've ever visited FFR you were treated like our friend, our family and most of all our boss. This forum is amazing and I'll take the good with the bad as the good is 1000x more prevalent and the bad, while not always deserved, is often times deserved and I'll take my lumps. I've got some unique perspective as I've seen and led this company for more than 27 years. My brother wanted no part of the real day-to-day challenge this business presents. I paid handsomely for the privilege to continue to do so. It is the best job I've ever had and I am proud as heck of the team. I am also really hopeful that the road ahead has fewer issues like this one!

[rich grsc]

Dave, even though I've been a customer for over 20 yrs, I've not had the privilege of meeting you in person. Hopefully that will change someday. In all these years, you and your Factory Five crew have never failed to meet my needs and solve any issue I've had. Never known a company that tries so hard to put the customer first. I know you are having a trying week, my thoughts are with you. Thank you so much, you have no idea how much this little car has meant me all these years.
Rich

[sasteel43]

Frustrating thread...these matters are better not handled on here because it always goes south. Based on above, you had Dave's personal cell # you could have called.

Dave has reached out to me today, and I apologized for not reaching out to him. I realize now that this was not an appropriate avenue to express my frustration. I know FFR is working to correct this mistake, and we are all human.

[Mike.Bray]

I did give you my cell phone and told you to call me or text anytime with questions!

I'm not as sympatric to the OP as I was with this information, sorry Dave. But it's still a communication issue....

[BradCraig]

Dave has reached out to me today, and I apologized for not reaching out to him. I realize now that this was not an appropriate avenue to express my frustration. I know FFR is working to correct this mistake, and we are all human.

Good deal...all of it will fade away when you crank it the first time! Look forward to seeing your progress.

[ydousurf]

I wasn't going to post anymore on this, but I feel that I should clarify a few things and set the record straight!

sasteel45, I understood your disappointment and in your case, there was a mistake and Dave and F5 team have acknowledge and owned up to the error, for which I had not a second of doubt that they would correct it! As it has been pointed out and said too, they're working to implement new changes to systems & processes for the benefit of not just us "the customer" but obviously for the employees too.

Dave responded to you personally and that right there say a lot! I think Dave knows all too well, what I, and many here, as well as you also know? Purchasing an F5 kit of any kind, it really is a magical experience, as to say in the very least! For most of us, it really is --- A Dream Come True! It was and still is for me! We work all our lives, dreaming and hoping, that one day we too can experience the exhilaration of having a permanent smile as you drive and wave back to all those that you meet on the street and highways, at street lights, in parking lots, at gas stations, etc... These total strangers, who get excited when they see a very cool vehicle and I so can't wait to experience that! <--- This! Yes! That! It is all part of the unforseen beauty and joy that comes with owning a prized vehicle, but especially the roadster due to it's reputation. And hopefully each of us are very proud to own, let alone the extra pride that you want to share knowing that you built it yourself! That's the real hidden joy for all of it!

We all know that F5 didn't intend to make the mistake, it just happened. I've made my share of them too! I also know that I'm absolutely confident that F5 will no doubt, have tighter controls implemented with the new tracking system which will benefit everyone.

They have shown time-and-time again, that they just want all their customers to be satisfied. Just as Dave has explained in the posts within this thread and on others threads too. When dissatisfaction arises, he's got your back! HE HAS ALL OF OUR BACKS!

So, for all the Guests that are new to TheFactoryFiveForum.com site, and those of you who are considering building a vehicle from a kit, look no further than Factory Five Racing as the company to go with! Aside from having the best chassis on the market, as well as the innovation into developing an affordable product, one that many can experience the joy of the The Build Journey in their various models to choose from. You will not find a more caring, customer oriented, satisfaction driven mentality from another vehicle company for what they offer. It has been demonstrated over-and-over-and-over... (you as another example) They really are 2nd to no one! Their customers truly come to realize how they go well and beyond to what someone would expect. I think you can honestly agree that you have already experienced this with Dave's personal responses.

I've shared how Dave helped me with my kit purchase initially, for which I'm very grateful, but also resolved a few problems and every single issue was made right! No, I'm not being paid for my statement. An no, I'm not kiss'n up! I'm speaking the truth and from the heart! Dave's caring and the respect he has for all-of-us who have his products is beyond one's imagination.

I've said this to many folks and I'll state it here again! Honestly, if you give me a choice between an authentic cobra or a Factory Five Roadster, I'll take the F5 Roadster all day long! It's not a money deal for me, it's more about the experience and journey, rather than the destination. I honestly would rather be behind the wheel of a F5 Roadster that I built, with all the wonderful updates that have come from the MKIV Model that are available, than to have a trailer queen and be afraid to drive it. I'm building mine to drive, not to be left in a garage to be admired. I'll be proud and honored to have the F5 badges on my car!

Anyway, take this extra time to do further research, planning and preparation before beginning your actual build. There are so many choices and many vendors on this site that offer really amazing parts and add-on's to help your build stand out from the rest. Anyone can build a one-of-a-kind dream vehicle if they desire it. And there are so many folks out here on this site that will help you succeed too. A big, BIG THANKS to THE FACTORY FIVE FORUM! THIS SITE IS ABSOLUTELY INVALUABLE!

So, to all those that read this post, I am extremely proud to be a FACTORY FIVE BUILDER and OWNER, and I suspect you will be too!

And to you Dave, thank you for validating what many of us out here already know! Thanks for creating Factory Five Racing Company and staying the course so long ago, as so that I, and many, many others could fulfill our ultimate dreams. Thanks to all of your hard working employees too! Keep up the great innovation and that drive for excellence!

Doug

[David Hodgkins]

This thread has run its course. The OP sent me a message requesting it be deleted. Because deleting threads almost always leads to charges of conspiracy or favoritism or some other nonsense I’m simply closing it.