EdwardB’s 35 Hot Rod Truck Build - Well Traveled

[edwardb]

I think your windows are in upside down

[edwardb]

Received the call that my seats were ready for pick-up (yeah!) so they’re in the house. Will provide more details and pictures. But first a couple of smaller details I wrapped up while waiting.

The kit doesn’t include any connection between the angled corners of the bed front and bed sides. But I found, as others, it needs something. I considered several approaches. Maybe even something hidden if possible. But the angles just didn’t work. So ended up putting bracket pieces in the inside corners like several others have done. I made the pieces from 1” aluminum right angle stock. Riveted one side with high strength 3/16” Q-rivets. Obviously permanently attached and will get painted along with the bed sides. So hopefully will mostly disappear. Then 1/4" bolts through the bed front. It’s amazing how much stiffer that made the sides and the corner itself. Highly recommended mod.



Another thing on my build idea list was some type of tie-downs for the bed. This of course is not a cargo truck so nothing major. But expect could throw things in there like lawn chairs, a cooler, or even a suitcase or two for overnight trips. So looked at several options for tie-downs. There are many. Either in the bed itself or the sides. Even some type of track system on the bed would be possible. Decided to keep it simple and put SS D-ring tiedowns on the sides in each corner. Found some decent ones for a good price and the right size on Amazon. My thought was to use these for bungee cords or even rope. Our oldest grandson took one look at it and suggested also having a net available. Great idea! Another search on Amazon and found a perfect 3' x 4' elastic cargo bungee net. Stretches to double that size. So, I have options depending on what I put back there. Thought about several ways to attach the D-rings. Ended up with 1/4-20 x 1/2" socket head screws and cap nuts. Drilled 1/4" holes in the SS bed material and 3/8” holes in the outer fiberglass sides. Used a dab of JB Weld to hold the screws in place. Then filled the outer hole and permanently captured the screws with HSRF and sanded flush. Will disappear when painted and rock solid.





One other minor hint that I meant to pass along previously. When finishing the doors, I realized the inner and outer halves of the doors are sealed at the bottom. Rain and/or moisture could run past the window molding and then have no place to go. I drilled several drain holes along the inner panels at the bottom. DD’s typically have something similar for the same reason. Suggest other builders consider this. Only takes a couple minutes and completely unseen.

Now for the seats… To review, looked at multiple seat options. My wants were (1) individual buckets, (2) headrests mandatory, (3) needed to be high enough to be able to see out (I’m only 5’9” and shrinking…) but also take advantage of the significant headroom and help with legroom, (4) on sliders, and (5) recline if possible. Of course, all that plus had to fit into the available space. I had basically given up and was going to put headrests on the Roadster seats I received with the kit and fabricate some type of riser to get them up higher. But then another builder posted about working with 16-1/2” bucket seats from https://www.wiseguys-seats.com/product/16-bucket-seat/. After several emails (they were very helpful) decided while not cheap these were a significant upgrade over what I was planning so placed an order. I decided on vinyl since leather was a sizeable upcharge and just didn’t think it was necessary. They sent me several samples and I matched the kit provided door cards as best I could. Also ordered an extra yard of loose vinyl that I’ll use for the center console. Promised delivery was 12-14 weeks but took a bit longer. No problem. As we all know that sort of thing is happening everywhere. Since Elkhart, Indiana is sort of local for me (3 hours away) I picked them up rather than having them shipped. Not a huge shop but clearly lots going on. I’m happy with the look and quality of the seats.

Home just a few hours ago and spent some time with the initial installation. They definitely fit but I have some work to do. The provided 4-inch risers, combined with the thickness of the sliders and base of the seat results in massive overkill on height. That size riser was the only one they offered. Will either modify or make something new. I’m a little disappointed that with the seat back as far as it will physically go, the legroom isn't great. Welcome to the available space in the truck. Was hoping it would be better. Lots more work to do to get them sorted out and mounted. But it's a start and progress.

[Sbda4]

The seats look great in the truck!

[WBCook]

Edwardb, your wise guys seats are looking good, if you need a template for their 2" risers, let me know...

[edwardb]

Edwardb, your wise guys seats are looking good, if you need a template for their 2" risers, let me know...

Replied to your PM. Thanks.

[edwardb]

Finished installing the seats shown in my last update. As usual, some challenges. But now done. First up, also as mentioned before, the provided 4” risers combined with the sliders made things way too tall. So, cut down the risers to get the height I wanted. I’m thankful for my Milwaukee portaband and table which made relatively quick work of the thick steel. Cutting them down also eliminated the adjustment slots. I set them at a fixed height with the front 3/4" higher than the back. Which felt about right.





My plan was to use aligning weld nuts (https://www.mcmaster.com/90955A123/) riveted to the risers and then put the bolts in through the bottom. With the tight quarters in the truck plus the location of the mounting bolts, difficult to get under the seats. That’s what I did on the Coupe and it worked perfectly. For this build, fortunately worked for the rear pairs but not for the front. They ended up directly above the mufflers. Not only in the way, but the mufflers are close enough to the bottom that there’s barely enough room even for a bolt head. So, for the fronts, I used screw mounts (https://www.mcmaster.com/90611A119/) riveted to the bottom and was able to reach under the seats in the front to get the bolts in. That worked well for the doubled and insulated floor. Mounting like this requires the holes need to be located very accurately. The weld nuts give a little wiggle room. But still need to hit the marks. I made patterns out of cardboard with the hole locations from the seats. Then placed on the floor to mark and drill the holes. All turned out well and the mounting is rock solid. The seats slide back and forth several inches. Although will likely spend their time all the back. The seat backs tilt forward, which is nice to access the space behind the seats for a little additional storage. Then also of course back to get the most comfortable sitting angle. But will likely be mostly straight up to get the most space. Speaking of space, can confirm this cab really won’t be comfortable if you’re over 5’9” to 5’10”. The passenger side isn’t bad. But the steering wheel is close on the driver’s side. It’s not a problem. Not planning any cross-country trips. I looked at a bunch of pictures of other builds plus the gallery on FF’s website. Best I can tell, these seats aren’t taking any more room than most other seating options. Including the bench seat that FF offers. And these have headrests which for me was mandatory. I’m not going to say I’m disappointed at this outcome. I'm getting used to it and will work for us. But others should check carefully if it’s for them.

Wrapped up a couple more details. Installed the carpet on the floors and the kick panels I showed a couple updates ago. Now have most of the carpet installed except for a few pieces that will be after body and paint. Installed the kit provided 3-point seatbelts. Happy with how those go in and work. Installed the check straps on the doors. Also put the door cards on the doors to check the position of the arm rests compared to the seating position. All good. So now down to just the center console and I’m nearly out of things to do before body and paint. I’m in the process of getting some quotes and exploring my options.

[edwardb]

For the last several years, Great Lakes Cobra Club has promoted a car show at a local high school technical school. It has numerous vocational tracks (https://www.ostconline.com/about-ostc/all-programs) and while all students are given the opportunity to check out the show, we’re specifically targeting the automotive tracks. I got this wild idea it would be cool for them to see something under construction. So thought about taking the truck to its first car show. Unfortunately, it’s not street legal yet obviously and it doesn’t fit in my SE. Too long, too wide, too high. But close otherwise. I knew a buddy that lives close by had a full-size enclosed car hauler, so decided to see if he’d let me borrow it. Turns out he had just traded it in and now has a brand new 20’ Featherlite hauler. He’s very trusting, and a nice guy, and let me borrow it. What a beauty it is. I probably wouldn’t take a long trip using it with our SUV. But with the truck loaded was still under our towing capacity and fine for the in-town drive.

The day was picture perfect, and we had a good turnout. Fellow club members who hadn’t seen the build were interested. Can’t say most of the kids were that impressed. Spent more time looking at the Mustang and C8 Corvette next to me. But that’s OK. It was fun getting it out for the first time. Used the opportunity to also take the truck to the shop that’s painted my last three builds. Based on seeing it plus a statement of work I provided, will give me a quote. We’ll see how that turns out. They’re backlogged at least six months, which is typical from what I’m finding out. Pictures from the tow and from the show.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Very cool Paul!

Jeff

[edwardb]

This is yet another somewhat trivial update. But will post anyway as a heads up to future builders. As I mentioned in my last update, trailered the truck to a local car show last week. For grins, decided it needed to have a license plate of some kind. So stuck on this American flag plate. Immediate uh-oh. See anything wrong with this picture?



Before the answer (if you don’t see it), some background. I put all the light fixtures together when completing the wiring and mounted them on the body. The LH rear light includes a downlight for the license plate and FF includes a license plate holder that sandwiches between the bracket holding the light to the body and the light fixture itself. The manual doesn’t give specific dimensions for where to mount the assembly. Just in the area on the side near the back. In looking at the chassis underneath the bed side in that area, there’s a nice metal piece that extends down into the general area where the light is mounted. Didn’t seem to have any other purpose, and I assumed it was for the light fixture to have a more solid mounting than only in the fiberglass. Note I didn’t have any way to confirm that because the picture(s) in the manual don’t show that piece. Maybe it was added later. One of the lessons with the manual is don’t take the pictures too literally, right? Anyway, proceeded to mount the light fixtures and moved on. All seemed well.

Fast forward to last week. See the problem? The opening tailgate will interfere with the corner of the license plate. Since the horizontal location of the license plate is fixed by the bracket, the only way it would work as is would be to mount the light lower. This would put the mount into the body below the metal frame piece that I assumed was for the light. Not a tragedy. The fiberglass should hold the light just fine. Just maybe not quite as rigid. After thinking about it a couple days, decided to modify the license plate bracket itself rather than move the lights. After comparing the trade-offs, decided keeping the fixtures mounted to the frame plus not having to patch holes in the bed sides made that the better choice. Other than the work needed to modify the license plate bracket, that also meant the license plate wouldn’t be centered under the light. At first my OCD didn’t like that. But proceeded anyway. Now looks centered on the fender and I think it’s OK. Note I've seen several builds were the tailgate was fixed to the rear opening. Obviously that would eliminate the problem in a whole different way.

I sandwiched a piece of .040 aluminum onto the entire back of the existing bracket extending the length so the license plate could be moved over. Then added a piece to fill where it was extended. As a side benefit, it's a little stiffer than before. I always thought the original bracket was a bit on the flimsy side. The bracket was previously powder coated satin black with a bunch of other parts. I didn’t want to mess with having to get one piece powder coated. So sanded off the powder coat that remained and painted the modified bracket with satin black STEEL-IT Polyurethane rattle can spray. Used that product a few other places based on a recommendation. I’m impressed with it so far. Put everything back together and happy with the results. I left a little extra room for a license plate frame if I choose to use one. And just for the record, yes I could have left the license plate bracket as is and drilled new holes in the license plate. Didn't go that way because (1) some states don't like you to alter the plate. Hasn't been an issue so far (reference Kleiner mod to Roadster license plate lights) but this would maybe be a little more obvious. And (2) that would put the one mounting bolt right where Michigan sticks the annual renewal tag. Maybe other states use that corner as well.





With that, couple more days and then we’re gone for two weeks. So, no build activity or updates. We’re headed west (Idaho and Oregon) to attend our oldest granddaughter’s high school graduation plus visit family. We missed her brother’s graduation two years ago because of Covid restrictions. Not going to miss this time. Won’t post a current picture for privacy, but I think it’s OK to post this one from 10+ years ago. Took her for a go-kart spin around the block in my first Mk3 Roadster build. She’s grown up into a beautiful young lady, both inside and out. We wish her the best as she’s off to college in the fall. We'll be back in time to go east for the Factory Five Open House and then London not long after that. Busy but good times.

[460.465USMC]

Hi Paul. I thought it was great how the Cobra club turns out at the vocational high school. Given the very cool cars (and trucks!) on display, I imagine it inspires automotive interest. Great idea! I think your truck looks great, and while I would have gawked at the C8 as well, it would have been after a good amount of eye-balling your very nice build.

P.S. if your GPS somehow gets you off course and you find yourself near Spokane, it would be my honor to buy you a cup of coffee! Enjoy your trip, and congrats on your granddaughter's graduation! (Our youngest son is graduating high school as well).

[edwardb]

Exactly a month since my last update. Time flies. In that time, did our trip to Idaho and Oregon. Made sure young granddaughter graduated from high school (she did!), had a great time with all the festivities, and then visited my mom and family in Oregon. While there, both my wife and I tested positive for Covid. Little/no symptoms but quarantined at her place. Came home with negative tests and amazingly she tested negative the whole time. Not bad for an 89-year-old. A week later, did the almost 1,800-mile round trip to the Factory Five open house. Loved the $5/gallon gas (!!) but our SUV does surprisingly well pulling the SE. Had a great time at the open house. Met and talked with lots of folks. Awesome job by Factory Five and a great turnout. Perfect weather. Enjoyed helping Jeff K., Ron E., and Henry R. with judging. Wasn’t easy with lots of great builds. Then tried to keep up with Dave Smith cruising over to the Newport Car Museum in Portsmouth, RI. One of the nicest museums we’ve visited with lots of great cars. An original Cobra and a very early and supposedly accurate replica Daytona Coupe. There was a little theater-like setting that told the Carroll Shelby story. Well done with lots of interesting film clips. Now home for a bit and then off to London next week. Looking forward to it and hopefully duplicates the fine weather from the open house.

Over the last couple days, finally getting back to the truck build. Not much left. Just some interior details. Did receive my first paint quote right before we left for the open house. The same place that did two of my Roadsters and the Coupe. Unfortunately, it was a “we don’t really want to paint it but if you're crazy enough will for this price…” quote. Not going to happen to say the least. They should have just no-quoted it. Have several other leads that I’ll be working on.

I’ve been working on the center console. So far, mostly a woodworking project. After making some cardboard templates to develop the design and fit, have it mostly together. Found some 5.0MM underlayment plywood material at HD that is working well. That plus some various scraps I had around. Will have two cupholders, a place for the power window switches, a large storage area, and an armrest which I really like. As mentioned previously, I bought some extra matching vinyl from the place that made my seats to wrap it with. Not much to look at yet, but this is where I’m at.

In the shop just about together. All the edges, especially the top lid/armrest, will be rounded before wrapping.



Mocked up in the cab. Will be held in place by screws and nutserts into the driveshaft cover and back wall.



That’s it for now. Hope to see many of you next week at London. On a totally unrelated note, several have asked about my next project. Have one picked out and started the order process due to the lead time. Another one from my bucket list. Not sharing but it will be another great learning experience and probably stretch me more than I realize.

[RR20AC]

That's how I feel with my plane build. Stretched! I just got another one of those workmates. New features make it really helpful over the one I inherited from my dad. As Mike Patey would say: Back to work!

[edwardb]

It’s been a couple weeks since my last update. Only a few days of work so not a lot to report since I’ve been busy plus just back from the London Cobra Show. Speaking of the LCS, some words about it. We've attended every one they've had for the past 10 years or so. This year's turnout was excellent at 200+ registrations, weather although a little warm was outstanding, some nice improvements at the hotel venue, and another big contribution to the CF Foundation. Congratulations all around to the Ohio Cobra Club for their very hard work and excellent event. We arrived on Thursday with the Coupe in the trailer. There were a TON of trailers, so we weren’t alone… Friday I led a private cruise along with five other club members. 100+ miles of Ohio countryside and a nice lunch at Clifton Mill. The block party Friday night was enjoyable. But the highlight of course was the big parade into London on Saturday morning and then the all-day show in downtown London. Lots of spectators and plenty of good sharing and conversations. Met several forum members in person which is always a treat. Of special interest are the charity rides down Main Street. The Coupe was new last year and I wasn’t comfortable enough to do it. But did three passes this year. I purposely wasn’t super aggressive off the line. But once rolling, found the bottom of the accelerator pedal (a rare occurrence in regular street driving) in first and briefly in second before passing the cones at about 1/8 mile where we’re supposed to lift. No surprise, the Gen 3 Coyote is very strong and loves to rev. Was in the low 80’s mph by the cones each time. Even though I forgot to shut off the A/C (no comments please). My riders seem to enjoy it. But maybe not as much as me. The Saturday night banquet was excellent and a fitting close to a great event. Including the famous flat Thiery and paper plate auctions. I won’t try to explain. Others have. Already looking forward to next year. The picture below was taken by a fellow club member not long after I was out of the box on one of the charity rides. Pulling pretty hard evidenced by the lift on the nose and squat at the rear.



One other thing I have to comment about. We were parked very close to where the cars were launching for the charity rides. Right in front of the Masonic Lodge for those who know the area. Of course the loud sound of cars leaving was constant throughout the day. So when one launched that was totally silent except for some tire sounds, it got my attention. Very fast too. Made several runs. This of course was the Scorpion EV Cobra that was shown in the vendor area. A Factory Five Roadster with Tesla S electrics. 600 hp and 687 lb-ft of torque. Not sure yet how I feel about it. But it was impressive. Dave Smith did a video, and had a chance to talk with Dave about it Sunday morning. Will be curious to see how it does in the marketplace. I can imagine for some parts of the country and for some customers it will be attractive. But don't see it replacing our noisemakers just yet. Not cheap either. I did find the old school Mobil gas pump as a charger a cool touch.

Back to the build. Brief as it is. Last update I show a picture of the unfinished center console. It’s now completely vinyl wrapped and ready to install. It’s the same vinyl as my seats, as mentioned before, applied with DAP Weldwood Gel Formula contact cement. A pretty normal HD or Lowes product that works quite well. I like the gel variety much more than the regular. Only takes one coat (the regular can sometimes take more than one) and flashes off in 10-15 minutes. All of the vinyl was applied directly to the console wood material with the exception of the hinged top which is over 1/8” closed cell foam. I put vinyl on the inside as well except for the bottom which is a piece of carpet. At the last minute, I decided to add a small LED light inside. The power window switches that come with the kit are backlit, which is nice. The manual wiring instructions show to wire them to the windows power lead so they’re on all the time. I chose to pull a wire off the gauge lighting circuit back to the window switches so I’ll wire them to only be on when the gauges are lit, e.g. whenever the headlight switch is pulled. I’ll take another lead off this wire for the light in the storage area. On all the time, but only at night when the headlights are on. Another small detail is I decided not to use the trim ring around the shifter boot as I showed before. I mounted the boot from the bottom since height is a bit of an issue with the somewhat short Lokar shifter I have. Turns out that's a nice clean look so will leave the trim ring off. Nothing left to do except to finish the transmission cover insulation and carpet so I can install into the cab.





Speaking of transmission cover insulation and carpet, that’s what I’m working on now. Yesterday finished applying a layer of Second Skin Damplifier Pro over the cover. A number of pieces because of the shape. But got it done. All of the insulation and carpet is being done in a way that the cover remains removeable. But wouldn’t be easy or fun. Hope there’s never a reason.



Over the next couple days, will get the carpet done and then the center console. Only thing left is the e-brake boot and the interior will be as far as I’m going to take it for now. Still working leads for body and paint. Pretty much resigned that the build is not going to be done for driving season this year. I’m Ok with that, although a bit disappointed I guess.

Will be another break in the build. This seems to be our summer for travel. We’re on grandbaby watch for our younger son. Their second daughter to go along with their two-year-old. Due date for his wife is tomorrow (July 1) and all signs are it’s time. We’ll be off to Texas a week or so after she’s born. That will be grandchild number five. Excited for us and them.

[burchfieldb]

I tried posting this in a related thread and didn't get a response, so I thought I would post it in this active thread that I am following. I wanted to see what you guys thought about conductive vs non-conductive PTFE fuel lines? I searched the forum, but came up empty. Trying to figure out what I want to use between my hard lines and the engine.

[edwardb]

I tried posting this in a related thread and didn't get a response, so I thought I would post it in this active thread that I am following. I wanted to see what you guys thought about conductive vs non-conductive PTFE fuel lines? I searched the forum, but came up empty. Trying to figure out what I want to use between my hard lines and the engine.

I have zero experience with conductive fuel lines. First I've heard about that is here on the forum. My truck is plumbed with Aeroquip TFE Racing Hose. Which I've used on all my builds and I'm OK with it. Don't have a horse in this race.

[burchfieldb]

I have zero experience with conductive fuel lines. First I've heard about that is here on the forum. My truck is plumbed with Aeroquip TFE Racing Hose. Which I've used on all my builds and I'm OK with it. Don't have a horse in this race.

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the feedback. Do your lines have the white or black ptfe liner?

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul, I appreciate the feedback. Do your lines have the white or black ptfe liner?

White.

[edwardb]

Good couple of days working on the interior. With the center console vinyl wrapped and insulation on the transmission cover completed, proceeded to put carpet on the transmission cover. The FF provided carpet has two pieces. A crescent shaped piece for the very front (under the dash) and a larger piece for the rest. I cut off the rearmost parts that go on the driveshaft cover since that’s under the center console. Took a little tweaking to get everything to fit the way I wanted. But now complete. With that, pushed the center console into place. Pretty tight fit but all good. Held in place by three 1/4" bolts into nutserts. Two through the bottom into the driveshaft cover and one through the back wall. Very solid. Wired the power window switches and storage box lighting.



I didn’t permanently attach the piece with the shifter boot, cup holders, and switches. I was going to originally. But realized (bolt of lighting…) that would make it impossible to access the Lokar shifter which has several micro switches and adjustments. Not a good idea. I put a screw in the front (not visible) and the rest is friction fit. The cup holders have an obvious purpose. But the location of the front one also took into account using a Weathertech CupFone to hold my phone.

Next on my list was the e-brake boot. FF supplies the standard Roadster boot and says to modify it to fit. (Same as on the Coupe BTW.) I cut the stitching from the perimeter wire on three sides, re-formed the wire to fit, and hand stitched the material back onto the modified frame cutting off the excess fabric. A little fiddly. But not hard and turned out OK.



I’ve installed a wear pad next to the accelerator pedal on all of my builds. I find the FF supplied carpet holds up reasonably well if properly protected, e.g. with floor mats and a wear pad by the go pedal. Mentioned this in a previous build thread. There’s actually a website that sells these things exclusively: https://www.heelpadwarehouse.com/. In the past, I’ve glued and stitched them onto the carpet before gluing the carpet in place. But because this location was in the area of two carpet pieces, plus the carpet is slightly curved and cut to fit, had to install after the carpet was installed. So stitching wasn’t possible and adhesive became very important. I tested the Roberts 6700 Indoor/Outdoor Carpet Adhesive described previously. It held a roughed up piece of the heel pad material very well. The other thing I did was shave the pile of the carpet down some where the heel pad goes. This helps it fit slightly below the surrounding carpet. Looks better and (hopefully) makes it less likely to catch with your foot and potentially come loose. Not shown, but I cut a piece of aluminum the size of the heel pad, bent it to fit the curve of the location, and used some sticks to the other side of the footbox to push it in place while the glue set up.



With that, put the seats back in. I like it.





Today I put the doors back on, routed the power window wires, and checked their operation with the wired and installed switches. Everything works as advertised. Pretty much the final look of the interior with the exception of the dash which will be body color. Should set things off nicely. I'm happy with it.



Just a couple things left on my to-do list. Most important is to find a painter. Still working on that one.

The build is going to take another interruption as we’re off to Texas for a week. Hopefully our friends at Delta won’t mess with our flights. Our son and wife welcomed beautiful Kayla Elise on July 1. 8 lbs. 2 oz, 21 inches long. Mom and baby doing great and back home. Her big sister, 2-year-old Hannah, is doing great too. The proud grandparents need to check things out.

[Jeff33Ford]

That is really coming out great. Thanks for the motivation and ideas. I think I will steal... uh use a few of those.

[rthomas98]

First congratulations on the addition to the family!! Hopefully you have better luck then I did last week with Delta (had my flight cancelled to New York and ended up driving it).

But to the work on the truck. I got to say wow that interior is looking fantastic. In accordance with your other builds that is top notch.

[David Williamson]

And is it going to be RED ? ;-)
David W

[edwardb]

And is it going to be RED ? ;-)
David W

Lucky guess.

[FF33rod]

Gorgeous Paul....

Enjoy the grandkids! We welcomed our second granddaughter 2 months ago too...

Steve

[edwardb]

Gorgeous Paul....

Enjoy the grandkids! We welcomed our second granddaughter 2 months ago too...

Steve

Congratulations! We do enjoy them. A lot. Even though they're all out of state. This is actually our fifth. Our other older son has three. Two boys and a girl. They're growing up fast though. The oldest will be a junior at university next year, next one just graduated HS and starts university, the youngest is one year from HS. So we have the age ranges covered.

[wareaglescott]

Looking great Paul. You can't really trust those guys at Delta much these days! Hope all goes smoothly. Text me if you have any issues and I'll check on the flight status.

[Jeff_J.]

Hi Paul,
Spent the last 1/2 hour catching on your truck build. "Outstanding work and attention to detail", never disappointed reading your build journeys. Hope travels are all safe and you have a great visit.
Jeff J.

[edwardb]

Hi Paul,
Spent the last 1/2 hour catching on your truck build. "Outstanding work and attention to detail", never disappointed reading your build journeys. Hope travels are all safe and you have a great visit.
Jeff J.

Thanks. Back home safely. Good job by Delta. Great week meeting new granddaughter (beautiful of course...), getting to know the 2-year-old again, and visiting with son and daughter-in-law. I will never again complain about Michigan being hot though. Texas, you win. Hands down.

Yesterday, drove the truck around our neighborhood two miles and calibrated the Autometer speedo. After planning a route with our DD. Calibration worked as it was supposed to and no more swinging all the way over to 120 mph every time. Top speed about 45 mph. It really does drive very nicely. I posted earlier about trying to get air out of the cooling system. Thought I had it solved. But after a few drives and heat cycles, have decided I don't. After just a little driving, temp goes to 210. I'm guessing it would go higher if I kept driving. Fan is running but it doesn't drop. Lower part of the radiator and lower hose are cool to the touch. Although the thermostat is new (86 C / 186 F Stant 14948) always the possibility it's bad. Not easy to get out, but logical first step. But my guess is I still have air in the system. Regretting I didn't buy the vacuum refill kit before. That's apparently pretty foolproof. I did go ahead and order one now. But the challenge is getting all the coolant back out so I can start over. Looks like I'll be taking some stuff apart and taking out coolant plugs on the side of the block. Along with the radiator drain, lower radiator hose, etc. Based on a lot of reading, seems a very common problem with the LS engines. Open to suggestions. But doesn't seem to me I have a choice. Also confirmed my Dakota Digital cruise control still isn't working. Worked with their support late last year and every troubleshooting tip they gave me was OK. I'm suspecting the module. But we'll see on that one too. Other than that, all working OK. I made a final build-out list including a few other things. A pretty short list actually. Still on the prowl for a painter.

[racingandfishing]

I will never again complain about Michigan being hot though. Texas, you win. Hands down.

Now you know my AC dilemma for my coupe! Just kidding, but still thinking I may need a better solution than the FFR kit. Or do the reverse of those in the north...just NOT drive it from Memorial Day to Labor Day!

[Legend57]

Hi Paul,
Long-time follower of your build thread. I've really enjoyed your updates and am truly impressed at the process and level of detail you apply.

Here is one thought regarding bleeding air from the cooling system. My only LS experience is with my LS2 in my 2006 CTS-V. I've had to remove the radiator a number of times and have had to deal with refilling/bleeding the cooling system. After reading quite a few forums for how to do it (many of which are very involved), I found one trick that seems to work well, at least on the LS2. (See attached pictures) To the right of the throttle body, there is a rigid tube that mounts to the engine, that connects to a flexible hose to the radiator. The trick is to remove the clamp between the rigid tube and flexible hose while you fill the coolant. This allows the air to burp out while filling the coolant. Once coolant starts to flow out that tube, you can reconnect it. This has worked well in my last two coolant refills. I'm not sure if there is a similar port/tube on your LS3.
One other thing, I did a little checking on that Stant thermostat. The reviews aren't great. I don't take reviews as gospel, but it may warrant checking it. I'm now in the habit of testing all my thermostats before installing them. Dropping them in a pan of boiling water to make sure they open is good peace of mind. I use a thermometer to monitor what temp the thermostat opens to make sure it is reasonably close.

Best of luck with the debugging. Good to see the list of issues is short.

Coolant Bleed-1.jpgCoolant Bleed-2.jpg

[edwardb]

Good day today. As is often the case, looking back the problem was obvious. Not so much in the middle of the problem when everything is suspect. I've said before I like to learn so try new things. So issues (e.g. mistakes...) like this go with the territory I guess. Before I contacted Dakota Digital support, I checked all the wiring, confirmed proper power voltages, and at the last minute decided to put a scanner on the LS3 ODB2 port and monitor the streaming data while driving up and down the block. Immediately noted that the vehicle speed value was zero. Autometer speedo was working. HGM transmission controller app showed vehicle speed. But nothing coming out of the LS3 PCM. Included this information in my request to Dakota Digital, and they confirmed the cruise control wouldn't function without vehicle speed data. Kind of obvious I guess. They said to contact HGM.

HGM support quickly identified the solution. The LS3 crate motor control pack has a speed sensor connection, but the instructions list "Optional Connections (Not required for operation)" and one of the items is "Vehicle Speed Sensor – 2 pin Connector Only required for CPP Connect & Cruise Transmission Controls." Since that didn't describe my installation I didn't connect it. In hindsight obviously incorrect and not a good decision on my part. HGM said to attach the high side of the VSS signal from their harness to the high side of the LS VSS connector. Sometimes I get a little aggressive and cut off wires/connectors that aren't used. Fortunately I didn't in this case. I had tucked the unused LS3 harness VSS connection under the main harness in the engine compartment just in case. Took some work to get a wire through the firewall to where the HGM controller lives. But got it done.

As a result, scanning the ODB2 port showed vehicle speed and the cruise control is now functioning like it's supposed to. HGM described that their controller receives and uses CAN bus data from the LS3. But GM doesn't allow them to send any. For normal operation this doesn't matter. But for an add-on like cruise control, it's up to the customer to make the connection. Whatever the reason, it's fixed and off my list.

Next up, figure out the cooling issue.

[edwardb]

In the last few posts, have documented two remaining issues. Explained in the last post how the cruise control issue was solved. Last few days have been working on the possible cooling issue. To recap, I’ve observed during my short couple mile laps around my neighborhood that the cooling fan turns on at around 190F (what I’d expect) and the gauge indicated engine temp goes to 210F. Doesn’t go much higher, but upon examination the lower radiator hose and bottom parts of the radiator are cool to the touch. Symptomatic of either a defective thermostat or an air pocket somewhere in the cooling system. Something the LS series of engines, as I found out, is famous for. One other thing. On the LS3 Gen IV engine (mine) the thermostat is on the lower radiator hose. Coolant is pushed into the radiator by the top hose and doesn’t go back out the lower hose until the thermostat opens at the water pump. The Coyote has a similar arrangement. Certainly different than your standard SBF.

The thermostat was brand new along with everything else. Although full disclosure I didn’t test it. Should have. After pouring in the coolant some months ago (Dex-Cool, another interesting subject) and observing the above behavior, I read dozens of other forums and watched YouTube videos with various methods of removing air from the system. Nothing changed. One common theme emerged and that was using vacuum to fill the system which prevents and eliminates air pockets. So decided this was what I was going to do. But also meant draining all the coolant from the system. Consensus seems to be that while vacuum systems can remove a little coolant, they can’t drain the block for example.

So with a clean 5-gallon bucket, pulled the lower radiator hose which yielded a little under two gallons of coolant. Then found and removed the block drains on each side of the engine. The LH side was pretty easy. The RH side was behind the starter. So had to remove the starter to gain access. Used a funnel in both cases and caught most of the coolant. Not as much came out as I maybe expected. But with everything drained I was at about 2-3/4 gallons. A little less than I added before. But there was some spillage in the process. So confident everything was drained as much as I could.

With things apart, tested the thermostat in a pan of water on the stove and the thermo sensor that came with my VOM. It seemed to open at the rated temp, but not as much as I expected. Bought another new one at Advance. It tested similarly, but maybe opened a bit more. I suspect both were OK. But put things back together with the newer one.

There are multiple coolant system vacuum tools out there, and dozens of YouTube videos on the subject. I bought this relatively cheap one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00804HWOU...roduct_details. It seemed to work fine. Followed the instructions (and all the videos) and refilled the system this AM. All seemed to work as it was supposed to. Took back in all the fluid I removed (not wasting that expensive stuff) along with some from a bottle I added. Not sure there was much difference in total volume. But then if there was an air bubble, really don’t know how big it would be.

With everything buttoned up, ran the engine to temp. The fan came on and gauge crept up to just under 210F, pretty much like before. But didn’t go any higher. At first the lower radiator hose was still cold. But I revved the engine pretty aggressively a few times and then it was hot along with the lower part of the radiator. So by every indication it’s working properly. The heater pours out massive heat. So definitely have coolant in that circuit. It’s possible there wasn’t anything wrong before, and more extensive driving and/or revs would have started the coolant flowing. But at this point really can't say. Did a Google search this AM asking what is normal operating temp for an LS3. Nearly every response was “about 210F” with the stock setup and thermostat. So I’m as confident as I can be at this point that all is OK. Obviously will watch closely once real driving begins.

Lessons from this exercise? (1) Test all thermostats to eliminate that possibility. (2) The vacuum coolant fill method seems to be a widely used process. Including by many garages and manufacturers. Even for engines where air pockets aren’t as common. It’s quick, clean, and relatively easy to do. I’m making it my standard process going forward. Before putting any coolant in the system.



So minor rant which means little or nothing. With the coolant do-over, that makes it a nearly clean sweep on this build. Had to drain, repair, and re-fill the Moser diff because the rear cover leaked. Had to drain, repair, and re-fill the Gearstar transmission because the pan leaked. Had to drain, repair, and re-fill the master cylinder because of defective flairs from the supplier between the MC and the proportioning valve. Had to drain, prime, and re-fill the engine oil. Easy compared to the others. But part of the common theme. Now the do-over on the cooling system. The only thing I haven't touched is the fuel system. Probably shouldn't say that out loud. Could have prevented a couple by not being in a hurry to fill fluids and check more carefully including instructions before proceeding. Mostly just goes with the territory I guess with new builds and sometimes questionable quality from suppliers. But by far the most I've experienced on any builds. OK, I feel better. Moving on.

[Kbl7td]

I’ve had this problem with my SLC numerous times. Couple things to help future builders. You don’t need to drain to use the vacuum method, it’ll still work. Two, most air will be caught in the heads. Easiest is to loosen the crossovers on the heads a couple of times to bleed the air. Three, you absolutely have to rev the hell out of them to get the coolant past the thermostat, drilling a few holes in the stat helps as well. Also, Dex-cool is garbage, you’ve probably read a few things about that.

[edwardb]

I’ve had this problem with my SLC numerous times. Couple things to help future builders. You don’t need to drain to use the vacuum method, it’ll still work. Two, most air will be caught in the heads. Easiest is to loosen the crossovers on the heads a couple of times to bleed the air. Three, you absolutely have to rev the hell out of them to get the coolant past the thermostat, drilling a few holes in the stat helps as well. Also, Dex-cool is garbage, you’ve probably read a few things about that.

Thanks for your post. And following my build. Literally every single item you mentioned were topics I studied. And every one has many opinions on each side. Obviously, since this was all new to me I had to make some decisions about what to believe and what to do. I thought about doing the vacuum thing after only dumping the lower radiator hose. Some said that would work without draining the block. But overwhelmingly, including the instructions with my tool, said to drain the engine completely. So as not to risk a do-over, I just took the conservative route. I thought it would be harder. But it only took about an hour to open the two block drains and catch whatever came out. Read about disconnecting the head crossovers. But they're buried under the intake and throttle body on my engine. The block drains had easier access other than the starter. Also saw comments about drilling out the thermostat. Took the conservative route there too and left it alone. As for Dex-Cool, (Death-cool?) opinions all over the map on that one too. Issues with incompatible gaskets, reaction with oxygen in open systems, etc. My thing is the Chevrolet Performance instructions were very specific to use Dex-Cool, and while things are under warranty I'm pretty careful to follow mfg's directions. Don't need any excuses. I also used Prestone Dex-Cool, which supposedly is one of the better ones. I'll keep an eye on everything, as I mentioned.

[orangecruz]

WOW WOW WOW

Ive read every word and studied every picture and love the thread Paul

Congrats to you sir

[edwardb]

Another couple items off the list this week. My better half is insistent on having sun visors. I’m OK with them too… I looked at a number of options during the Coupe build and ended with some tinted plexi ones that attached to the 1-3/4” roll bar. Had to trim them a bit to fit but work well. Did some hunting again for this build and came to the same conclusion. Unfortunately, inflation (or something…) caused the price to be quite a bit more. But went for them anyway. There's that ugly budget discussion again. Received quickly and they fit the 1-1/2” roll bar in the truck perfectly. No trimming either. Very high-quality parts. They are Axia Alloys MODSVT-BK and you specify the roll bar size when ordering. I bought them from Wild Horses Four Wheel Drive. But I’ve seen them other places as well. For the same price. Look like this:





I was going to wait to wrap up the HVAC installation. Still hadn’t run the ducts behind the dash or charged the A/C system. Decided to go ahead and knock them out. No reason not to. As I’ve shown before, the truck dash is nice because removing four screw allows the whole thing to tip down. It was relatively easy to run the two defrost and three dash ducts with it open from the top. I tie-wrapped them to the Vintage Air evaporator. Permanently attached I hope. The dash ends are loose as the dash has to come out for painting. There’s plenty of room, and with some fiddling found the best routing that allows the dash to go back into place. Looks a little busy, but really not bad. The floor vents go out the bottom of the evaporator unit itself.



With that, moved to charge the A/C system. I purchased the vacuum pump and gauges during the Coupe build so this step can be done at home. It’s not hard when starting with an empty system. Only thing I can't do is evacuate the system once it's charged. Not good for the environment and illegal to do intentionally. First up is to run a vacuum on the system for 45 – 60 minutes to pull out air and moisture. Then check that it holds the vacuum. Of course, in the true spirit of “everything on this build leaks” (see rant in previous update ) I did have to chase down a couple leaks. I’ll spare the gory details. Mostly self inflicted unfortunately. All good now. With that, followed the directions and with three 12oz cans of R134a, the gauge pressures were in the proper range per the humidity/temperature chart and the chilled air out the dash vents is in the right temperature range. I’ll watch for leaks of course and make sure the charge stays. But relatively confident this is good to go. This isn’t much of a picture. But done. Ignore the gauge readings because the engine was off and the line pressures partially released. There’s a sequence for that too.



Side note: With the engine running extensively during the A/C charge, it ran up to the usual 210F mark or a bit lower at times. Never went higher. When done, the lower radiator hose was hot. So feel like this confirms my cooling system is free from air pockets and is working normally. Of course the real test will be in actually driving. But feeling good about this now too.

Another busy week ahead with family related, so won’t have much shop time. But hope to keep knocking out the punch list a little at a time.

[460.465USMC]

Congrats on solving the air pocket issue, Paul! I've been learning there is so much of that sort of thing (solving unexpected/expected issues) during my build.

That's so cool you do the AC charge yourself.

P.S. great call on the sun visors. Happy wife; happy life!

[edwardb]

This will be a short update. Summer with lots going on including multiple events with the Coupe plus family trips and activities. Ranging from a new granddaughter to seeing another off to college. Whew!

As I’m wrapping up final details on the build, one of the open issues was the fit of the doors. Door fitment is often discussed as one of the more difficult aspects of the truck build. I've spent a lot of time on them. And one the reasons that some body and paint guys back away from the truck. As described in previous posts, I was able to get them decently fitted all around except at the bottom rear corners. I added some shims to the body mounts in that area, also previously described, which improved the fit. But still the LH door was just over 1/4" proud of the body at the rear bottom corner. The RH door slightly less. In both cases the misalignment started at around the door handle. The bottom is also off for 12-14 inches toward the rear. But not as obvious. I’ve seen several truck builds in person and looked at a bunch of pictures. Many seem to have this same alignment issue and were left that way. My original plan was to leave this to whoever did my body and paint. But with some coaching and experience from a friend who has experience with these things, determined that pie cuts on the inner shell where it meets the outer door panel could fix it. So dove in, carefully laid out the amount to cut out and taper along the side and bottom, cut with a Dremel and cut-off wheel (easy), and re-glued with HSRF with a number of clamps being careful not to add any new misalignment or waves.

Success! The RH side turned out dead nuts perfect. The LH side is still about 1/16” proud in the last few inches at the bottom but the rest is perfect. That small section just couldn’t be bent enough to match. There’s plenty of thickness in the door to sand it down for the final fit. I’m now in the process of putting glass cloth and vinylester resin across the cut areas from the inside. When done, will be just as strong as before. Not particularly high stress anyway. Have a couple other body related issues I’m going to address. Again with more coaching and experience. Hard to get decent pictures to capture before and after. But here’s what I was able to get:

LH before.



RH before.



LH after. Just a little to be sanded off at the bottom The rest matches exactly.



RH after. The picture angle doesn’t look like it matches. But it does.

[McGuyver]

Paul, you are way ahead of me as always. Assuming I will probably have similar issues when I get to my doors. You mind posting or sending a few interior photos of your pie cut handy work? Just trying to get a better idea of the process. Thanks

[Pat Landymore]

Paul:

I’m sorry to learn you had to go through this extreme fix to get your doors right. Once done, it does work quite well though, hey?

My compliments…..your execution of it turned out quite a bit better than mine. 👍🏼👍🏼

Cheers,
Pat

[House Money]

Paul, you are way ahead of me as always. Assuming I will probably have similar issues when I get to my doors. You mind posting or sending a few interior photos of your pie cut handy work? Just trying to get a better idea of the process. Thanks

I too would like to see pics of the pie cuts made to get the doors to fit better.

Gary