Carl's Mk 4 Roadster Build

[carlewms]

Folks,

Since I was a young driver I have dreamed about building my own car. I got the bug for sports cars when my Dad would take me down to the local VW/Porsche. While he was buying a green 68 bug, I was admiring the international orange Porsche. Back then these cars were simple and pure; a light car with no frills and lots of power for the weight.

When in high school, it was to take my 64 VW Beetle and turn it into a dune buggy. Well as we all know family, life and job all had a higher priority so my daily drivers were "store bought" as we say down south. First it was a 1972 Triumph Spitfire I had in college; a fun driving car but painful to maintain on a college kid's budget. After being fed up by the reliability of the Spitfire, I purchased a Toyota Corolla SR5 which had no virtues in the way of sportiness but was Number 1 in Consumer Reports. My next venture into the sports car world was a Datsun 280Z. The last of the original body "z" cars, it was a blast to drive. After that car I went into the dark side driving a 1973 VW camper and Volvo sedan until buying and restoring a 1981 MGB and a Volvo sedan before buying and restoring a 1981 MGB. Although a typically British car to maintain, it served me well making 2 transcontinental trips. After a few years in Cadillacs, I finally got back into a car that provided the comforts and handling I really enjoyed; a BMW 330 CI convertible. In 2007, I bought a new BMW 335I which is now my daily driver. Now I am starting my ultimate dream of building a car by putting together a Factory Five Racing Mark 4 Roadster.

Carl

[carlewms]

My strategy is to try to stay as true as possible to the original look of the later versions of the "Originals" while still keeping the details of the modern systems hidden out of plain sight.

Basic Mk 4 Kit upgraded with FFR upper and lower control arms and Independent Rear Suspension (IRS)

Front Suspension: FFR upper and lower control arms with new spindles Koni shocks and upgraded coils.

Rear Suspension: FFR upper and lower control arms with FFR supplied IRS kit which comes with a 3.27 gear ratio.

Brakes: Manual with upgraded Wilwood front and rear with Wilwood pedal box

Engine

Levy Built Ford Small Block 302 stroked to 347 with 425-450 bhp at the flywheel
EZ EFI
Single Wire Alternator
Engine compartment aluminum cleaned and treated with Sharkhide Metal Cleanet and Protectant (engine side)
Mechanical Throttle Linkage with Russ Thompson Accelerator Kit
427 Style Burp Tank



Transmission: Super Alloy Tremec 5 speed with the following gearing:

First Gear Ratio: 3.27:1
Second Gear Ratio: 1.98:1
Third Gear Ratio: 1.34:1
Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear Ratio: 0.68:1

Hydraulic Clutch

Steering: Manual FFR with bump steer kit to be added if needed.

Electrical: Power distribution is currently planned to use the FFR Ron Francis wiring harnesses for the main, front, rear and dashboard. I am considering using the ISIS(tm) Multiplex System as an alternative power management and distribution system.

Interior:

Russ Thompson Turn Signal
Whitby Air Conditioner with heating and defroster with controls in the shallow glove compartment
Leather FFR seats with seat warmers
Leather or Vinyl dash with SC instrument layout and shallow glove compartment
Carpet with edge treatment as in the original cars
The cockpit aluminum will be treated with LizardSkin(r) Sound Control and Ceramic Insulation if the overall budget permits. My second choice will be a matting material for the interior surfaces



Wheels: FFR 17" x 9" and 17" x 10.5" Vintage Halibrand Replica Wheels

Body: The underside of the body will be treated with LizardSkin(r) Sound Control or similar material with additional treatments in the wheel wells to protect the body from rocks thrown up by the tires. Additional spray on material will be applied to the completed aluminum in the wheel well areas. Other Items:
Soft Top
Modified Roll Bar probably Breeze or the FFR version modified to provide slight rake and lower profile

Paint: My current thoughts are to paint the car silver with a ghosted anthracite stripe but I may go with one of the original colors with a clearcoat finish.

As I learn more I am sure this will change. Carl

[bil1024]

Congrats! Sounds like a great build. Post some pics when you can, we like pictures!

[carlewms]

Before I could start the build I had to get the garage renovated. I have the cabinet doors to finish and some electrical work to complete. All the major stuff done so now it is time to really start building the car.

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[carlewms]

I got back out in the garage and started preparing the parts for my frame dolly. I decided to make one with some height adjustability. At the low end the height will be 16.5 inches and the high end of 30 inches. I am trying to use only 2 x 6 lumber, wood screws, nuts/bolts, and swiveling castor wheels minimizing the use of the wood.

My plan is to use the higher level while working on the suspension and under the car. I will lower it when I start working on the heavier top side components.

Photos to follow. Carl.

[carlewms]

I have been side tracked with work, getting the taxes done and everything else that keeps me away from the build

I have designed and started building a dolly for the frame it is adjustable in height and longitudinal length. It may be over kill but it is my overkill. Because of space limitations I needed to put it on wheels.

I also wanted to have plenty of room to work under the car in the early stages of the build and I can lower it for the later stages like engine install, etc.

Photos to follow.

I also ordered and received upgraded coil springs from Levy. I lucked out and came across a body buck which I will pickup on Saturday. My weekend goal is to have the body off, the panels photographed and off with the car ready for suspension and steering install by the time I quit on Sunday.

I finally feel like the fun is starting!

Carl

[carlewms]

Here are some photos so far:


Frame Rest

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Lower Support Leg and connection to the lower crossmember. I wanted to make sure that at any point the legs were solidly supported. The top and bottom of the leg take the weight of the car. I used 4 3/8ths 4 inch bolts to secure the upper and lower support legs. This may be overkill but since I was going to be rolling this around the garage I wanted it to be sturdy.

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This one of fully adjustable frame supports annotated with the dimensions I used. In the high position I will have 31.5 inches of room to work under the car. After I am finished on the items requiring access below the car, I can lower it to have about 18.5 inches of clearance. I will need some friends to help!

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To make sure all the bolt holes matched up I created this jig to mark the holes.

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Now that I have got one end done I need to add the wheels build the other end and add the longitudinal support.

[carlewms]

Today I finally finished my rolling frame dolly which I can adjust in height. The photos show it in the high position. When I complete all the work required under the car I can lower the dolly (after removal of the centerline supports). AC Bill suggested I add additional bracing strengthen the upper cross member so I added a 2 by 6 in the center which I can remove when I lower the dolly height.

The first shows the functional version:

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This one was upgraded to be fully operational::cool:

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If all goes right, tomorrow the body comes off.

Carl

[carlewms]

:D Finally I get touch the car and started removing the body. I removed the doors, trunk lid and hood and started on the front end bolts.

I have some help coming by on Saturday to get the body off and then finish out the day getting the photos taken, panels marked and then removed.

This is Fun!

Carl;)

[Martin]

Carl - I am a novice at this, but I am drilling all the panels before I remove them. The ones that need to be removed to mark up I am taking off, marking them, drilling them, then putting them back on again before I then drill through the chassis.

The next thing I do is write on every panel what it is, and for every edge, I label which bits go on top and which bits go under. I'm then taking a photo of all the panels in place with close ups and wider angle shots to see how it all fits together. I've even got panels that I can't figure out where they go which I'll be posting about shortly.

I'm sure I will still have to drill more holes once I get the panels back on for good later on, but the majority should be done, and hopefully I'll know how to put them on and line them up when I do just by looking at the photos.

Looking forward to watching your build. You will quickly overtake me I think, but it's good to see another build log at around the same point.

Martin

[mattmc]

looking at you frame dolly, I have no doubt that it can old the weight vertically. However, I'd be worried that when moving it that you don't have enough lateral strength. From the picture it looks like the side up rights only have three screws and maybe some glue holding them. You put 1000+lb on that and it may not hold. Be safe and good luck on the build.

Is there any reason why you didn't go with the traditional body buck that rolls over the chassis? That is what I did and with the chassis on jack stands I had no problems getting under for the work I needed to do.

Matt

[carlewms]

Matt,

Thanks for the comments. The reason for the movable dolly is that I needed to be able to move the frame in the garage. If I do not get my wife's car back in the garage soon ... Wel you know what I mean. I also am fairly rotund in build and needed more room and access.

The legs are attached with 5 pocket screws on the bottom and 4 on the top and also are glued. I added more support in the middle which is attached by 2 pocket screws on the bottom and 3 on the top.

I will add another crossmember if after getting the frame plus aluminum on the the dolly.

Thanks, Carl.

[mattmc]

You have a two car garage?
The deal I had with my wife was she had to be able to park her car on her side of the garage every night, and I agreed.
So, I would pull her car out and the body buck into the drive every time I worked on the car. It only took about 5 min. It was usually between 10pm and midnight and some Saturdays. When I was done I'd pack it all back in there. Believe me it was a pretty tight fit. Since I haven't seen you garage I don't know what kind of space you working with. I'm just saying it can be done.

[carlewms]

Here is what I got done this weekend:

After finishing the removal of remaining quick jack bolts and two body screws, the body was ready to remove. I documented the locations in the build manual and took a photo of the locations. I then tagged each bolt set as well.

I took a lot of photos of the aluminum panels with the body in place and will repeat when I get the body off.

I broke out the differential and rear spindles and started painting them with POR 15. This stuff produces a really nice coating on the parts. This stuff puts off some powerful fumes so make sure to read and head the directions. Here is a photo of the differential which still needs some touch up.

Next, while waiting for my help to remove the body, I started the assembly of the front suspension upper A arms and shocks with the 600 pound rated Eibach coil springs I purchased from Levy Racing.

I ran into the same problems others have had when assembling the upper A arms. The rubber boot simply will not fit on to the ball joint. I checked with another builder who provided me with the replacement part number for the upper boot. I ordered the part from Summit Racing (Energy Suspension part# 5.13102G) so that this can be completed by Tuesday (see attached photos).

Sunday, with help of my wife and a friend we created three piles so to speak:

The Body;

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The Aluminum: now all photographed, labelled and marked;

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And the Frame (now on the frame dolly)

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I prepared the lower control arms and test fitted them to the chassis. I will have to spread the distance between the mounting arms on the driver side forward mount. The others look fine.

Carl


Carl

[SStrong]

Make sure your chassis dolly is sturdy. Drive train wil be very heavy, then you have to get it off the dolly. Plan ahead. And have fun. I have a three car garage and it is still tight (wife's car is under carport, and she is not happy about it). I had to sell my Road King to make room for engine stand and engine lift. Once you get an engine lift, jacks, and other parts you will be really be packed. My nephew has an attached 12 car garage and 15 cars and 3 trailers. You never have enough room LOL.

[WIS89]

Hey Steve-

Lucky nephew!! Now that's a collection to be proud of!

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

While waiting for some suspension parts to arrive, i took a shot at the first F-panel drilling the holes for the rivets and making two mistakes. I then proceeded to fix these holes with metal repair material. The lesson learned here is to check fit up and interference with the rivet gun prior to drilling the holes and to check the location where the rivets are going to make sure they are not going into the side of the tube or in a weld area.

I also used this panel to experiment with the cleaning and then applying the SharkHide. What I found is the acetone cleaner does not always clean off the markings from the aluminum production but does easily take the marker ink off applied to mark the panels for riveting. I used a 180 grit sanding block to put some grain on the inside of the panel and then put a coat of SharkHide. It looks pretty good.

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I learned the value of mocking up prior to assembly. The UCAs arrive assembled (except the ball joint components). All bolts are loose including the ones holding the arms to the base. As delivered there was not sufficient gap between with the panel and the nut and would have caused damage to the panel. I tightened them down using a vice to hold the UCA and will have plenty of room to check final torque once mounted.

The photo (below from one of e forums) shows the black bolt and nut on the forward mount and what looks like a cadmium version on the rear mount. After picking up the free body buck I tried to find the "brassy" looking bolts shown in the photo but cannot find in the box where I inventoried them, so I either misplaced them or did not identify them correctly in during the inventory. While a flanged nut does not fit, a standard nut of the same size and thread pitch does with enough room to get a socket on the nut. The basic manual is silent on the subject. The net shows both versions on a Mk 4.

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I also picked a body buck today which saved a lot of time and effort.

Carl

[SStrong]

Yeah, I'm terrible jealous. He has a Roadrunner that has original paint and interior (his best friend died and willed it to him) and looks like new. That's my favorite in his collection.
Have a great day!

[carlewms]

I am having "fun" learning and the curve is steep!

After purchasing my third rivet gun (I know I put the first two somewhere) and a 36mm socket to torque on the bolt for the front hubs, I did my first set of panels on the car. I installed the F panels. Wow what a way to learn about drilling, riveting and finishing all in one panel. While I marked all panels before they came off the vehicle, I found that I needed to remount the panels to make sure that the locations I selected for the rivets would work on the square tube (in one case the hole went through the tube edge vice the center of the tube or I could not get the rivet gun in position).

I also found that great care must be taken with the bead of adhesive that goes between the panel and the square tube. It can get pretty messy if you are not careful with positioning of the panel and as you rivet the panels the gooey stuff comes out the edges. I found cleaning with acetone immediately got the stuff of the face of the panel and I left the stuff on the edges to dry and then cut it off. What is the best way to clean this stuff?

I also learned some important lessons and suggestions from my brother, a certified aircraft mechanic. First was to make sure the hole drilled is as close to the diameter of the rivet being used in order to get the rivet to set correctly. In his experience he says they work best when the rivet has a very tight fit when inserted in the hole before applying the tool to the rivet. Practice first before actually doing it on a real panel.

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I re sprayed the undercoating again after installation and cleaning which improved the appearance. I am not totally satisfied but in the case "better is the enemy of good enough" since most of this area is well hidden. The glare of the flash does make it look worse than it is.

The rubberized undercoating took a beating from my cleanup. Here is the panel cleaning with acetone which left the rubber looking splotchy.

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After re spray it looked a lot better.

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I am still awaiting parts from Grainger which should arrive Friday to finish the upper A arm installation. The parts for the installation of the remaining front suspension are now ready for installation. The front spindles are already powder coated so I will not paint with POR.

The differential and rear spindles have been painted with POR 15. It took longer than I planned to get a full coat on all parts but they are now fully protected.

If it were not for the forum and others this list of lessons learned would be much longer.

Carl

[carlewms]

I repaired the paint job on the one F-panel after sanding it down a little. It looks a lot better but still not perfect.

The upper arms were temporarily installed on both sides (I still need to replace the rear nuts when the new ones arrive from Grainger and I will still need to torque the bolts on the base). I then tackled the installation of the shocks and coils and ran into another one of the eccentricities of building these cars.

There are shims used to center the upper and lower connections between the shocks and the A arms.

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Two shims like the one on the left are used on the Lower A arm and the right are used for the upper A arm. According to the parts list they measure .43 and .675 inches respectively however the parts as delivered were oversized by 3 to 7 thousands. I filed them down with a flat file to get a snug fit.

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I know need to take the upper A arms off and torque the bolts holding the arms to the base and reinstall the upper arms using the nuts received from Grainger.

I am also converting the parts lists into an excel spreadsheet so I can rapidly identify the parts by part number. This is particularly important when dealing with the bundled components like nuts and bolts. For example the nuts, bolts, washers and spacers are packaged in a bag with the assembly number 11074 (Roadster IFS Components) for the IFS; there is nothing in the package correlating them to the part number. I identified the parts during the inventory months ago, and in hindsight, I could have marked the individual parts which make this all easier now.

The manuals are really designed to build with a donor or without and not a "hybrid" of the two kits, so I am constantly jumping between the two as well as the great book by Brian Smith (How to Build Cobra Kit Cars).

In some ways all of this adds to the excitement of building one of these cars but adds to the frustration factor as well.

Carl

[edwardb]

I am having "fun" learning and the curve is steep!

I also found that great care must be taken with the bead of adhesive that goes between the panel and the square tube. It can get pretty messy if you are not careful with positioning of the panel and as you rivet the panels the gooey stuff comes out the edges. I found cleaning with acetone immediately got the stuff of the face of the panel and I left the stuff on the edges to dry and then cut it off. What is the best way to clean this stuff?

I also learned some important lessons and suggestions from my brother, a certified aircraft mechanic. First was to make sure the hole drilled is as close to the diameter of the rivet being used in order to get the rivet to set correctly. In his experience he says they work best when the rivet has a very tight fit when inserted in the hole before applying the tool to the rivet. Practice first before actually doing it on a real panel.

The rubberized undercoating took a beating from my cleanup. Here is the panel cleaning with acetone which left the rubber looking splotchy.

Carl

Couple of suggestions, based on my two builds to date: The drill size you want for the 1/8 inch rivets is a #30. (0.12850). You have a lot of drilling left to do! Get several of them, and replace as you go because they get dull or will sometimes break. But get good ones. Many including me have found the drill bits from Aircraft Spruce to be very high quality but also reasonably priced. #30's are $1.65 each. I would suggest getting 10. While you're at it, pick up a couple #12's. (0.18900). That's the perfect size for the occasional 3/16 inch rivets. I don't see any cleco fasteners in your pics. Your aircraft mechanic brother should know about them very well. These are a huge help to hold panels in place temporarily as you are drilling, fitting, fastening, etc. You can get by with 25 or so. For my Mk4 build, I got another package of 100 and still sometimes run out. But that's just me. Aircraft Spruce has these as well. Good quality and good prices. Regarding the adhesive, looks like you're using way too much. A little squeeze out is normal. But not that much. About a 1/8 inch or so bead down the middle (e.g. connecting the rivet holes) is plenty and will spread nicely when you pop the rivets. What adhesive are you using? Hopefully silicone as suggested? Some guys use something more "permanent" but I'm not sure why. With silicone and the rivets, the aluminum panel will basically get destroyed if you try to take it back apart. Using silicone, you can use something far less aggressive then acetone for cleanup. Just plain old isopropyl alchohol will work fine, and won't damage finish or remove your undercoating. Acetone is pretty nasty stuff for your car (and for you). The F panels are probably the easiest parts to install. You have about 60 more to do and it gets a bit more difficult. But it's also a learning process.

FWIW, here's my build thread for my Mk4. Finishing up panel mounting myself right now. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/299597-mk4-7750-build-progress-update.html

[DaleG]

I'm really uncomfortable with that chassis dolly; be careful.

While a bit pricey, OTC has 10-12 ton jack stands that will raise the chasssis from 33"-44" off the ground. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-1779b/overview/ There are likely less expensive yet suitable versions.

[carlewms]

EdwardB,

Thanks for the suggestions which I will incorporate. I have clecos but from looking at your build site not nearly enough.

I purchased the Assembly Tools and Supplies Group from Breeze which came with Bostik industrial 1100 FS polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Is this the right stuff?

Thanks, Carl

[edwardb]

EdwardB,

Thanks for the suggestions which I will incorporate. I have clecos but from looking at your build site not nearly enough.

I purchased the Assembly Tools and Supplies Group from Breeze which came with Bostik industrial 1100 FS polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Is this the right stuff?

Thanks, Carl

There is no question the poly adhesive is much stronger than silicone. Either is more than strong enough, in my opinion. I just get the caulking tubes of GE silicone at the local Home Depot. Available in several colors and price is reasonable. In either case, nearly impossible to take back apart once dry. Like many aspects of these builds, no right or wrong answer. Whatever works best for you. Good luck with your build.

[carlewms]

There is no question the poly adhesive is much stronger than silicone. Either is more than strong enough, in my opinion. I just get the caulking tubes of GE silicone at the local Home Depot. Available in several colors and price is reasonable. In either case, nearly impossible to take back apart once dry. Like many aspects of these builds, no right or wrong answer. Whatever works best for you. Good luck with your build.

I will try the silicone you suggested. I would like to get the stuff that dries clear and then my mistakes become less obvious.

I am going kind of crazy identifying the right nuts and bolts from the packaging (in some cases not marked that well) so things are going slower than I anticipated or wanted for that matter.

For example, the complete manual shows the steering arms connected to the spindles with two bolts the head of which looks like it is tighten allen wrench. Additionally the bolts do not stick out far from the nuts once installed. The photo from the complete manual shows the ones I appear to be missing. I do have slightly longer hex head bolt with lock nut which fits without interference with the hub (there is about a 1/4 in clearance between the top of the hex nut and the hub).

1. Is it fairly common to get substitutions from FFR?
2. Is there a reason I should not use the bolts/nuts that were sent with my kit?

Thanks, Carl

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[edwardb]

1. Is it fairly common to get substitutions from FFR?
2. Is there a reason I should not use the bolts/nuts that were sent with my kit?

1. In my experience, generally not. Not saying it doesn't happen, but wouldn't say it's "common." Really important to keep the parts groupings together to reduce the amount of hunting. I agree, that part can be challenging. I'm finding it's easier the second time around, for whatever that's worth...

2. You've run into a problem that was addressed by FFR a couple of years ago. The original nuts/bolts that were provided with their new spindles were replaced with different parts. One of the changes was to the head, e.g. a full hex head vs. the allen head. Plus the new bolts are longer. New parts and instructions were sent to everyone who had bought the new spindles. (FFR is normally very good about things like that.) Later purchases had the correct parts from the start. So, sounds like you have the right parts. The bolts should be marked "10.9" (hardness) and the nuts have a built-in flange. Make sure to properly torque to the spec noted and that the threads extend through the nut. Here is a picture of the parts on my Mk4:

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2011212012/IMG_1872.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2011212012/IMG_1872.jpg.html)

What you have also run into is a somewhat common problem, I'm afraid. The manual -- especially the pictures -- isn't always updated. In this case the manual pictures the old style bolts.

This forum, and the other one if you haven't found it yet, can be a huge help.

[carlewms]

Edward,

Thanks very much that clarifies a lot. This and the other forum have been invaluable to getting started.

In the picture you sent you show the steering arms with what I believe is the taper going up. The manual saws to mount with the taper going down. I thought that meant with with narrower end of the taper facing down. I am using the FFR manual steering if that makes a difference. I must be confused or are yours mounted differently because of the steering arm.

Sorry to be a pest

Confused Carl :confused:

[edwardb]

Edward, in the picture you sent you show the steering arms with what I believe is the taper going up. The manual saws to mount with the taper going down. I thought that meant with with narrower end of the taper facing down. I am using the FFR manual steering if that makes a difference. I must be confused or are yours mounted differently because of the steering arm. Carl :confused:

The picture is a power steering rack, but doesn't matter. PS or manual steering both mount the same, with the outer tie rod end on the bottom, and the nut on the top. The wider end of the taper in the steering arm has to be at the bottom. Assuming you're following the instructions to mount the DSS spindle on the passenger side the PSS spindle driver side (markings are for the rear steer Hot Rod) then it has to be right.

[skullandbones]

I'm really uncomfortable with that chassis dolly; be careful.

While a bit pricey, OTC has 10-12 ton jack stands that will raise the chasssis from 33"-44" off the ground. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-1779b/overview/ There are likely less expensive yet suitable versions.

You may be an engineer so please don't take this the wrong way but for safety's sake, I would add another stringer or two up top to the dolley and some gussets to the existing one. As is, if the board fails it could create a mouse trap effect (snap). In this case "a better mouse trap" is not good. The reason I mentioned this is I went over the estimated weight for building my roadster on its raised platform (installing engine while on it). Needless to say, I was re-enforcing it continuously. So it was one of those stupid things I did that seems funny now that it's over. I would show a pic but it's too embarassing. In my defense, I was experiencing some lower back issues so getting low under the project was impossible at the time.

Sounds like you are having fun. Wishing you the best as you progress. WEK.

[carlewms]

WEK,

Thanks for looking out for me on this one. Before I crawl under the car in the next few days I can add another longitudinal along the sides of the dolly which will add strength to the one going down the centerline.

In any case the only component of any further weight I will be adding will be the IRS in the rear followed by the steering rack. After I finish the fuel lines, brake lines and any other of the items that might require under the car access with room she will be coming down to about 16 inches.

Again, thanks mucho. It is always good to have someone looking after your "six" as the fighter pilots would say. Carl

[carlewms]

The picture is a power steering rack, but doesn't matter. PS or manual steering both mount the same, with the outer tie rod end on the bottom, and the nut on the top. The wider end of the taper in the steering arm has to be at the bottom. Assuming you're following the instructions to mount the DSS spindle on the passenger side the PSS spindle driver side (markings are for the rear steer Hot Rod) then it has to be right.

Edward,

Thanks. I finally figured it out but I am sure slow on the uptake. Thanks for your help.

I am glad I tackled only one side first to get all the kinks out because I learned a lot from all of you guys in making the PS go better.

Carl

[carlewms]

Amongst (or despite) the distractions this weekend I managed to get the Driver's Side suspension mocked up and finally installed. I cannot say enough about all the help I received from the forums and build sites. Thanks to edwardB today in handling my numerous questions.

I thought I had studied the manuals, forums, and build sites before starting but I found that when I was faced with the real parts, I needed to dive in again.

The biggest PIA was the lack of access to the nut that is used to attach the rear upper A arm to the frame. My kit had a deformed flange nut for this part. After trying other options like grade 8 nuts without flanges, I went back to the supplied nuts grinding off one flanged edge which allowed the nut to fit and served to keep the nut from spinning since I could not get a wrench or socket on it.

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Here are some photos of the completed assembly:

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I also put a topcoat on the differential and rear spindles.

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My goal this week is to get the PS front suspension completed, the Wilwood front brakes installed and the IRS installed.

BTW the distractions included getting the taxes completed (i had to pay) :mad:and the lawn mowed for the first time this year.

Carl

[carlewms]

Monday: With respect to the build I worked on the front brakes today and created the first "wall of shame" part. I am sure this will not be the last but it sure was an expensive first.

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Here is the sad tale. I assembled the Wilwood front rotor to the hat. The instruction calls for torquing the screws to 155 in-lb. I misread the setting on the torque wrench and it was set for 1550 or 10 times higher than the max torque allowed. I broke out 2 of the screws before I realized my mistake.

I compounded that error in trying to ease out the remainder of the two bolts when I destroyed a good part of the original threads on the hat. After I searched the forums and Internet I attempted to execute the procedures but had difficulty keeping the hand held drill perfectly perpendicular. I quit for the night in frustration of my lack of skills in getting the broken bolts out.

Tuesday: After attempting some rookie repairs with over sized screws, I decided to be more proper and conservative and order a new hat and bolts. These mistakes cost about $261 in new parts plus shipping and 5-6 days delay in finishing the front brakes. I did get a chance to practice safety wiring!

Lessons Learned:
1. Use the correct range torque wrench;
2. Check the setting on the torque wrench numerous times and under sufficient light to really read the settings (specially true on the digital readings);
3. Use a drill press with a means to hold the working piece vice hand held drill to prepare the broken bolt for removal; and,
4. Do not work tired!

Since I was essentially stopped on the front brakes I assembled and prepared the parts to mount the IRS components finding all but the bolts and bushings for the front end of the differential. I had planned on ordering the solid bushings from Fortes anyway.

I also gathered all the parts to assemble and mount the Wilwood pedal box. Since purchasing the kit, I have decided to install a hydraulic clutch so I am researching the addition of the third master cylinder to the pedal box but it looks like it will be easier than using the cable system (and all the mods and issues associated with the quadrant).

I have become a devotee to the methodology of mocking up first to make sure all works before doing the final assembly.

Carl "Clutzy" Williams:confused:

PS. I will eventually make a nice Wilwood clock for the shop from the hat .

[AZPete]

Carl, I'm enjoying your journey because it reminds me of my build. Yes, there are lots of little hurdles and some big hurdles that you must figure out how to get over. The second side takes 1/3 as long as the first side. You are not the first guy to have a collection of damaged parts. Now that you are about to put the IRS diff in, get some Valium! I used the engine lift with a chain to the diff through the trunk area (before panels installed) and that helped with the weight, but it took lots of attempts and nasty words to finally get the thing into the frame cage! Somewhere on the other forum is a good description of how to get the IRS diff in position but plan for lots of trial-and-error to solve the puzzle, and then some touch-up paint.

Please keep up the tales of your journey! And, enjoy it.
Pete

[carlewms]

I have been contemplating, consternating and yes doing some building.

I picked up an in-lb torque wrench at Harbor Freight for $20 which allowed me to continue the assembly of the remaining front rotor. After application of red locktite, I then safely torqued the bolts to the 155 in-lb in the instructions. After some more constructive criticism of my safety wiring from my brother I got the PS hat mated to the disk, ready for mounting on the hub.

16811 16812 16813 16814

I never did get the pig tail right but I have the DS disk yet to go to achieve safety wiring nirvana. It is "amazing" how much easier this got when I had and properly used the right tools.

Waiting on the new brake parts, I shifted to the pedal box by first putting up the Wilwood version of the front pedal box panel to mark for riveting.

The two pedal box mounting brackets which come with the optional upgraded brake package untreated were painted with POR 15 and top coated with Rustoleum Semi Gloss black which matches the powder coating. I am using the POR/Semi Gloss solution instead of powder coating for these parts. I also am using a hydraulic clutch (for which the pedal box was originally designed.

16815 16816 16817

Previously I purchased the Breeze AC pedals. The attachment points on the Wilwood system require modification of the pedal and designing a mounting plate.

16818 16819

I started by removing the "bump" on the back of the AC pedal. I want to maximize legroom and removing this boss gives back about 1/2 inches by flat mounting in the pedal...well this turned out to be a decent plan that I poorly executed the next day:mad:

Carl

[edwardb]

Good progress. You do know it's our job to help you spend your money, right? :)

Not sure how you're planning to attach those cast AC pedals to the Wilwoods. Probably with bolts through the front? If you want a really trick clean setup, Forte's (a forum vendor) sells a custom CNC cut AC pedal setup that bolts directly to the Wilwoods. The screws are under the center "AC" logo via an insert that pops in/out. Really nice pieces. As I recall $60 - 70 for the pair. Installed them in my Mk4 a few months ago. Here's a picture, with the insert out of the clutch pedal to see how they're attached. Sorry for the picture quality, but you get the idea.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2011212012/th_IMG_2079_zpsff4defe9.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2011212012/IMG_2079_zpsff4defe9.jpg.html)

I used the cast AC pedals on my Mk3 build. Spent quite a lot of time modifying the boss on the back of the pedals to attach to the SN95 pedal box arms.

[carlewms]

Edward,

I am going with your suggestion and just getting them from Forte. Thanks. Carl

[carlewms]

Wilwood Pedal Box: Installed including the master cylinders. The most difficult part was getting the rear supports properly aligned with the square tubes after several fit ups and some use of my woodworking clamps I managed to get the holes drilled and the box installed.

You can mount the pedal box without the front panel on the DS installed. I did mock it up and made an additional piece to cover the rectangular hole outside if the square tube. To make installation of the noise and heat insulation later I made a template using the front panel as a guide. When it comes time to cut the material it will make that job easier and neater. Photos are in the gallery.

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I also temporarily mounted the Russ Thompson accelerator pedal to see how te whole setup will work but also to make sure I have no interferences when running the rear brake line from the MC done through the inside of the pedal box. I will be using a mechanical throttle linkage so final positioning will be after engine install.

Steering: The steering is installed using the manual rack supplied by FFR. I treated all the shafts and rack with SharkHide and painted the outer tie rods in semi gloss black. The biggest challenges where:

1. Positioning the pillow blocks to get tool access to tighten the two set screws on each block;
2. Cutting the Inner Tie Rod Ends. This by far to us less mechanically inclined is the scariest of the mods; you screw this up and you buy another steering rack. The forums have a lot of information on both checking to see if you need this mod and then how to measure and cut the tie rods correctly. Some just eyeballed it, others just cut 3/4 inch off each end and others took a rigorous engineering approach. You choose which you approach works best for you. My suggestion is that you document whatever approach you use for future reference. In my case, after detailed measurements, I ended up cutting off 3/4 inch.

16908

I sent the IRS UCA and LCAs off to get the Forte mods done on the ends to make alignments easier. The delivery date on the Wilwood replacement hat has slipped to 5/2, so now I am focused on getting the front brake lines and reservoirs installed and the differential in place. The engine/transmission should be ready in about 4 weeks.

Lessons Learned this weekend:

1. Glekos are your friends;
2. Measure 3 times cut once;
3. Before embarking on the next installation step, read the forums, consult How to Build a Cobra Kit Car by D. Brian Smith;
4. Install a hydraulic clutch. Frankly the mods you have to make to install the cable version supplied by FFR are a PIA and increase risks (known failures well documented on the forums). The Wilwood pedal box is designed for a hydraulic clutch therefore it is a much cleaner install. I am using FORTE'S system.

Carl

[mvkingfish]

Carl, congrats on your undertaking. I am at about the same stage of assembly and have learned the hard way on some issues as well. I've become a big fan of goo-off spray gel. It really works well on silicone residue, is much easier on the hands and actually makes the bare aluminum panels look better. I use acetone only as a base cleaner when I'm going to paint or glue etc. Good Luck, and remember to enjoy the journey.

[carlewms]

I tried the goo off spray this afternoon and it worked great removing some two day old undercoating. Thank.

[CraigS]

Wow, don't know how I missed this thread all these weeks but will be watching it now. A couple of thoughts for you.
I like McMaster-Carr a lot better than Grainger.McMaster has a TON of info on almost everything they sell to help make choices,the ship incredibly quickly for little money.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#
When i was researching color about 4 years ago I came across a list from one of the Shelby ads back in the day. Silver was on it so that is what I went with.
THe MkIV steering column is a pain in the butt. Good looking but. The old ones had several joints in them that this one doesn't. The shaft gets captured between the bearing at the firewall and the rack and the only rotational adjustment available is at the splines on the rack. The wheel goes on only two ways 180 degrees from each other. So, before you tighten the rack and the bearing,1-stick the wheel on the shaft,2-center the rack by turning all the way in both directions, making marks and counting back to it's center, 3- put the shaft on the rack,4-tighten the rack mounts and bearing mounts. It may be a little easier w/ a manual rack but we learned the hard way on Bills car that the rack just barely will move enough w/ the bolts out and the bearing loose to get the shaft on to the splines.
Torque- any time you have any doubts look at this generic chart for additional reference
http://www.repairengineering.com/bolt-torque-chart.html
Most of the FFR bolts are grade 5 and a few grade 8

[carlewms]

Craig,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will check out McCarr; the only real reason I have used Grainger so far is they have stores in my area. I have also found them pricey on tools for example.

I will use your method to check everything before finally bolting down. I did center the rack by measurements but is will do as you suggested to check it.

Did you do anything to dimple out the landing point for the set screws. Right now all that is holding everything in place is the "tightness" of the two set screws on the shaft.

I am tackling the brake lines next. Carl

[carlewms]

Bending brake lines was a totally new and somewhat frustrating experience. I spent most of the day just getting the front crossover mocked up.

I used coat hanger wire to mockup the path and make templates for the real thing. I probably made it more implicated than necessary but my goal was to keep it out of the way of the battery box that will go on the x frame. Here is a photo of the final version after I painted it in semi gloss black:

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Here is a shot of the fitting on the DS brake (before painting). I could not get these bent without scratching the coating.

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I also put the steering wheel on the car and to make sure I had the steering rack aligned which it was. Putting the steering wheel on, even if temporarily, makes you feel like your making real progress.

The weekend work includes getting the brake lines from the MCs to the front and rear and getting the differential mounted.

Carl

[carlewms]

After a long battle with the mighty pumpkin, the differential was installed. It kicked my butt most of the afternoon but in the end I won. I will have to do some repainting of where I scrapped off some paint by mistake or deliberately. This is as far as I can go on the rear end until my parts arrive for the control arms.

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The connections from the rear brake MC down through the interior of the DS foot box are completed down to the DS 4 in rail and about a third of the way back.

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The front brake lines from the MCs to the brakes are complete. I ended up cutting and flaring only one connection; It looks good but will find out if it holds when I get the system completed and bled.

17182

The new Wilwood hat arrives on the 2nd so I should be able to complete the DS front brake.

Added Lessons Learned
1. The fit of the differential is very tight as you move it up through the IRS cage. Between my addition of a couple of layers of paint on the differential and powder coating on the frame it was too tight a fit and I had to trim a little off to get it to fit;
2. Make sure to remove the plastic plugs in the differential axle connections; and,
3. Two persons can do it but three would be better.

Carl

[bill3422]

Very nice Carl. Your brake line look very well done. I never though to bring the brake line down inside the footbox. My only concern would be the heat from the header. That leading edge is almost touching my headers.
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag139/bill3422/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0687_zpsd1fd88d1.jpg (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/bill3422/media/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0687_zpsd1fd88d1.jpg.html)

Also if you use and type of sound or thermal insulator in the footboxes that line will be on the backside of the insulation trapping even more heat there.

[Gumball]

Monday: With respect to the build I worked on the front brakes today and created the first "wall of shame" part. I am sure this will not be the last but it sure was an expensive first.

16738 16739

Here is the sad tale. I assembled the Wilwood front rotor to the hat. The instruction calls for torquing the screws to 155 in-lb. I misread the setting on the torque wrench and it was set for 1550 or 10 times higher than the max torque allowed. I broke out 2 of the screws before I realized my mistake.

I compounded that error in trying to ease out the remainder of the two bolts when I destroyed a good part of the original threads on the hat. After I searched the forums and Internet I attempted to execute the procedures but had difficulty keeping the hand held drill perfectly perpendicular. I quit for the night in frustration of my lack of skills in getting the broken bolts out.

Tuesday: After attempting some rookie repairs with over sized screws, I decided to be more proper and conservative and order a new hat and bolts. These mistakes cost about $261 in new parts plus shipping and 5-6 days delay in finishing the front brakes. I did get a chance to practice safety wiring!

Lessons Learned:
1. Use the correct range torque wrench;
2. Check the setting on the torque wrench numerous times and under sufficient light to really read the settings (specially true on the digital readings);
3. Use a drill press with a means to hold the working piece vice hand held drill to prepare the broken bolt for removal; and,
4. Do not work tired!

Since I was essentially stopped on the front brakes I assembled and prepared the parts to mount the IRS components finding all but the bolts and bushings for the front end of the differential. I had planned on ordering the solid bushings from Fortes anyway.

I also gathered all the parts to assemble and mount the Wilwood pedal box. Since purchasing the kit, I have decided to install a hydraulic clutch so I am researching the addition of the third master cylinder to the pedal box but it looks like it will be easier than using the cable system (and all the mods and issues associated with the quadrant).

I have become a devotee to the methodology of mocking up first to make sure all works before doing the final assembly.

Carl "Clutzy" Williams:confused:

PS. I will eventually make a nice Wilwood clock for the shop from the hat .

Carl - Congratulations on your progress. I highlighted your #4 lesson above because my wife and I have a saying around our house... "nothing good happens in the garage after 9 pm." I know lots of guys here burn the midnight oil on their cars, but I recognized a long time ago on other car restorations that I have to knock off at 9:00 and head inside.

The Wilwood clock is a great idea and shows that you have a great attitude! Keep at it man, and let us know whenever we can help.

[carlewms]

Very nice Carl. Your brake line look very well done. I never though to bring the brake line down inside the footbox. My only concern would be the heat from the header. That leading edge is almost touching my headers.
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag139/bill3422/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0687_zpsd1fd88d1.jpg (http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/bill3422/media/Cobra%20Build/IMG_0687_zpsd1fd88d1.jpg.html)

Also if you use and type of sound or thermal insulator in the footboxes that line will be on the backside of the insulation trapping even more heat there.

I had seen this routing on the forums and also in Brian Smith's book. I am considering using the LizardSkin products for noise and heat insulation on the inside of the cockpit. That may be a way around the very real concern about heat on the line because I can get the liquid insulation up between the vertical square tube and the brake line. If I need to I can also drill out the two rivets holding the line behind the accelerator cable and then reinstall after putting in the insulation material.

My engine should be ready in about 3 weeks so I will soon know how close all is going to fit.

Thanks for the heads up!

Carl

[carlewms]

The front Wilwood hat arrived so today I can complete the DS front brake system (Remember I destroyed the first one).

Taking inspiration from Fast4u, I ordered he components to install an original style reservoir system for the brakes and hydraulic clutch. I will have to 1/2 pint "cans" for the brake reservoirs and a 1/4 pint for the hydraulic cylinders. These will be mounted in the same location of the originals, the DS wheel well area of the engine compartment. Here are some photos showing the three can setup.

17362 17363

For those with similar set ups, please post the approximate distance from the hood edge for the installation and the routing of the supply lines to the MCs.

Forte has completed the IRS control arm mods and they are in route.

Lots of cool work coming up.

Carl.

[carlewms]

This is a shot of the front connection to the frame. I put in three shims in the forward end but none in back of the connection. The rear connection is completely "shimmed up".

The manual states to not torque until alignment but is unclear about shims to the back side of the front connection.

Since I have FORTE'S adjustable arms should I go ahead and install shims now since adjustments at alignment are made differently?

17439

Confused Carl:confused:

[carlewms]

The control arms arrived from Forte today and I immediately prepared them for assembly on the rear end. These are nicely made and will make alignment much easier in the future. I scuffed up the aluminum fittings, applied POR15, and then sprayed them with semi gloss black.

17481 17482 17483

I mounted the PS lower Control Arm installing 3 shims on the forward end of the front arm to frame attachment. The rear mount took 3 in forward and 4 to the rear. Installation was aided by using a magnet to assist in holding the shims in place while installing the bolts.

Having violated the do not work tired rule, I screwed up the first couple of threads on one of the UCA which I will have to fix on Saturday with an appropriately sized thread chaser or tap (3/4 in 16 pitch bolt size). :mad:

17484

I also received parts for the brake and clutch master cylinder reservoirs and prepared them for assembly. I painted the cans with POR15 and semigloss black.

17485

Having received only 1 bracket from Moss, I prepared 2 more from spare sheet metal saving about $35 in cost.

I realized, after receiving the parts, that the reason the larger 1/2 pint can is also used for the hydraulic clutch is because only one size top is available from Cobra Restorers (the one that fits the larger cans).

[carlewms]

I continued to work on the reservoirs for the brake and clutch hydraulics after going on a parts and tool run. I needed a 3/4-16 inch tap to fix the cross threaded upper control arm as well as miscellaneous parts for the reservoirs. I decided to head to the local pawn shop to see if I could find a deal on a large tap and die set. I found a full large set for only $40 as compared to a new one online for over $250. The cost driver was the need for the large sized tap which was hard to find. I also picked up a sanding station for $100.00 brand new still in the box.

17487

I had to open up the control arm mounting points for the spindle to get them in place. I then discovered that the bolts I needed are missing. I found them on Tasca's site and put them on order.

Less work on the car today because I finally had to attack the grass cutting and other non build chores.

Carl

[carlewms]

My "paint Booth":

17515

The results:

17514

From the other forum on originality I understand the decals were not used but I like'em and will use them. I saved some dollars recreating the brackets using the purchased one as a model (the Moss version cost $16.95 plus shipping).

I completed the IRS as much as I could while awaiting the nuts and bolts to attach the spindle to the control arms. Shocks are mounted (all the spacers fit perfectly as sent by FFR.

First I had to expand some of the frame mounts to fit. Here is the UCA on the DS.

17516

Here is the PS side with all installed except the spindle and the CV axles.

17517

17518
The T Tag is to remind me to torque to final specifications.

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl - I'm using a donor pedal set-up and a '94 SVT Cobra master cylinder, not the Wilwood, because mine is a basic kit. I did, however, use the remote reservoir cans for a more original look. To facilitate this, I used braided hoses and adapter nipples to connect the cans to the m/c. I made a flat bracket to hang the cans from the 3/4" top tube on the driver's side. The location and height was really dictated by the need to keep the half-way point of the cans (minimum fluid level) higher than the highest point of the hoses as they arc toward the m/c.

Since the body sits on the top of that tube, you can get an idea of the relation to the top of the cans to the hood opening in these pics.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/EngineOverhead.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/EngineOverhead.jpg.html)

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/img_4072.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/img_4072.jpg.html)

[carlewms]

Chris,

Thanks for the very good information. I will be using a hydraulic clutch so will have three sitting side by side.

How far horizontally (I guess I mean toward the PS) from the 3/4 top tube did you mount the cans? From the photos it appears they are pretty much flush. My front brake line runs under that tube but I should have room to install the bracket brace shown in your photo.

I got the idea from your original post on the other forum.

Thanks, Carl

[Gumball]

As you can see in the second photo, the bracket hangs down flush with the inside of the 3/4" tube (note the 90* angle bracket underneath the tube and also attached to the flat bracket for additional support). The band clamps that hold the cans are not spaced out or anything, so the cans are only 3/4" or so from the flat bracket. When the body is on the car, the tops of the cans are readily accessible and the openings are not obscured by the body at all.

I may have a pic of the cans with the body on... I'll keep looking.

Here's the pic... gives a decent idea of how the cans clear the hood opening. Note that I raised them a bit to clear the mechanical clutch cable, so they're a bit higher than in the above photos. To facilitate this, I had to add some additional support behind the cans in the form of some rubber bumpers. Those keep the cans from vibrating or wiggling as they keep a small amount of outward pressure on them from the back side.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/BrakeReservwithBodyOn_zps7a735b78.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/BrakeReservwithBodyOn_zps7a735b78.jpg.html)

[carlewms]

Chris,

Thanks. Now I am trying too see if I am high enough above the Wilwood MC which are located on top of the pedal box.

17524

I assume that I need to have the operating level higher than the MCs and the lines going to MC. Carl

[Gumball]

Chris,

Thanks. Now I am trying too see if I am high enough above the Wilwood MC which are located on top of the pedal box.

17524

I assume that I need to have the operating level higher than the MCs and the lines going to MC. Carl

I would think so... or it could cause problems. But, I'll defer to others who have used the Wilwood system.

[carlewms]

Chris,

Did you custom make your hose? I cannot find braided hose with 90 deg on bth ends. I can make it work if I can get 90 deg on both ends and a fairly flat run from the cans to the MCs. Carl

[Gumball]

Chris,

Did you custom make your hose? I cannot find braided hose with 90 deg on bth ends. I can make it work if I can get 90 deg on both ends and a fairly flat run from the cans to the MCs. Carl

I bought mine from Pegasus Auto Racing in New Berlin, WI. They're a great source of unique and hard-to-find parts.

[carlewms]

Chris, thanks. I will check them out. I have measured it out and I think I can make it work if I use 90 degree elbows at each end. Carl

[carlewms]

FFR superb customer service came though again. I had misplaced the bolts and nuts to mount the spindles so I had to order new ones from FFR. They got them to me in two days allowing me to jump on the completion of the IRS.

Overall I found the IRS installation to be fairly straight forward but only after considerable reliance on the manual, How to Build a Cobra Kit Car by D. Brian Smith, as well as photos on the forums.

Lessons Learned


By far the hardest and most physically demanding step was getting the differential up through the IRS cage and twisted into place. To say the least it is a VERY tight fit. Complicating matters is the weight of the thing makes moving it very challenging.

When the manual warns to point the front of the different up with the CV connections aligned longitudinally to the car; they mean it. I would add that it must be raised absolutely vertically straight up;
Make sure the diff is well supported once in the cage to allow re alignment along the final installation position;
Make sure you check the fit of the bolts before installing the diff particularly the ones on the rear mounts. One of these is the first thing installed and you do not want to be messing with it with the diff dangling there; and,
Two can install it but three would be better and safer.

Protect the frame members with towels or tape to prevent scratching the powder coat;
Installing the shims on the control arm mounts to the frame can be tedious. I used a magnet to hold them in place;
I protected all the metal components which were not painted with SharkHide;
Test fit the connections to the frame and spindles to the control arms. I had to expand several mounts to get the shims and attachments to fit;


Here are some photos:
17609

[carlewms]

I am mocking up the IRS brakes and have a few questions ... Help!:confused:

1. Where is the best spot to land the end of the flexible hose on the frame?

2. I did not buy the FFR emergency brake with my kit. What are my options?

Pictures if you have them would be great!

Carl

[edwardb]

I am mocking up the IRS brakes and have a few questions ... Help!:confused:

1. Where is the best spot to land the end of the flexible hose on the frame?

2. I did not buy the FFR emergency brake with my kit. What are my options?

Pictures if you have them would be great!

Carl

Can't be much help with IRS brakes, but for the e-brake, several options and (surprise) lots of opinions. Choices include:

1. Factory Five e-brake handle in the factory location. Their assembly is a custom piece and probably works OK. But some have suggested there are better options. I personally don't have any experience.

2. Mustang handle in the factory location. There are lots of choices used and new. That's what I've used on both of my builds, and works fine. Some don't like the reach. I found a NOS 87-93 handle on eBay for my Mk4. Works great.

3. Lokar handle on top of the transmission tunnel. Many have done this, although some fabrication required.

Lots of threads to search on the other forum.

[carlewms]

I woke up and just could not get back to sleep so I headed to the garage for some entertainment ... Continuing the brake reservoir mock up.

After determining that the threaded holes on the top of the Wilwood box were 1/4 20 size, I then mounted two of the the FFR supplied tube clips on the same location. These will support the lines for the two brake cylinders.

Top View:

17619

Side View (the second tube clip is not shown on the left mounting point but will be on the final):

17620

I used 3/4 in bolts with a lock washer to secure everything.

With the goal of keeping the area above the pedal box as neat as possible as well as accessible for repairs or replacement in the future, I used hex head bolts which can easily be extracted once the body is on and the only access will be through the panel in the engine compartment.

Carl

[carlewms]

Over the weekend I finished the details on the IRS and torqued all the IRS components on the car. So far, as others have noted, this has been the most challenging part of the project.

I tackled the Wilwood brake installation and continued working the reservoirs. i had to fit and modify the brakes so they fit under the 17in 10.5 in wide Halibrand wheels. The brakes were interfering at two points:

1. The emergency brake actuating arm

17686

Fix: Grind of about 1/4 inch off the top of the actuating arm

2. The top of the caliper.

17685

Fix: Remove one shim from studs supporting the caliper while still keeping the pads level with the disk.

Getting there was a lot of trail and error in getting the brakes fitted with the wheel going on and off at least 4 times to make sure the interference was gone. There would probably not been any problems if I had selected,the narrower wheels.

I also continued the making of the brake and clutch reservoirs support. Drilling the holes with a drill press made the whole process a lot easier to do accurately. Painting with high gloss black was challenging; every blemish shows so I needed several sandings to get the finish I found acceptable (barely). I finally put semi gloss on the side not visible.

17687

17688

17689

I mounted the "L" shaped bracket so I could more easily align and mount the support plate.

Gordon says the engine is almost completed and should ship very soon.

Carl

[carlewms]

Edward,

Thanks for the response on the e brake answers. I am going for the original look so option 2 with a period look handle is in my future.

Carl

[carlewms]

Today I completed the lines from the reservoirs to the master cylinders and that is about it

It took about 7 tries to get the AN fittings on the 3AN PTFE braided line but I finally got 6 good connections.... Or at least I thought I did. As I was connecting one of the reservoir cans one connection came loose. I decided to increase the length of the misbehaving connection. Here are the results:

17727

17728

17729

I still need to mount the lines to the clutch master cylinder when it arrives from Levy's with the engine next month.

After painting the last line last night, I mounted it on the drivers side to mock up the locations for the brackets.

17730

I may have make up another set since the locations currently has weld interferences on the backside of the frame.

[carlewms]

The brakes are installed with the exception of the emergency brake which will be a Lokar version.

I finished the rear brakes, finalized riveting the run from the foot box to the DS rear. Two L shaped brackets were made to mount the brake transitions from the hard tube to the Wilwood flexible lines provided with the brakes. I used 1/8 in steel plate attached to the frame with two 10-24 1/2 in screws. This required drilling and tapping the holes to accept the screws since I was attaching to the quad shock location on the frame which was fairly thick (about 5/8th of an inch) as well as had interference from the rear x frame tubing. I made sure not to violate the integrity of the welds which connect the x tube to the quad shock mounting point.

17794 17795

If I were to do this again I would run the line across the rear x member and through one of the mounting holes for the quad shock.

Here are photos of the full installation:

17796 17797

The hydraulic part of the brake system is now complete, ready for filling and bleeding.

When I torqued the spindle nuts I used a clamp to activate the emergency brake so the hub was locked for torquing.

17798


If using the Wilwood brakes supplied by FFR, use a woodworker's clamp to activate the e brake. Make sure to use one with rubber pads on the clamps to protect the paint and maintain grip on the mechanism.

[2FAST4U]

Very nicely done! If you want to continue with the originality theme, install the Lucas wiring components on the firewall. No need to make them functional. Just for the correct period look. I placed a picture of the layout with part numbers on the other forum in the Originality sub-section

[carlewms]

I checked out the photo on the other forum and saved it for future reference. Since I would make them non functional I am going to arp tart looking for the parts.

[carlewms]

After some disruptions for a cruise, Vegas and a new job... And a trip to Ohio for LCS, I am back in the build mode.

One item I am considering is raising the steering wheel to add a little room under the wheel. The FFR steering wheel is parallel with the face of the dash as designed. I have enough room between the shaft and the MC on the Wilwood pedal box to get about .75 inches of additional room by raising the pillow block slightly.

This mod will put the top of the wheel closer to the body at the top.

See the photo below.


19082

Questions:

1. Is this doable?
2. Can some one provide the measurement between the top of the wheel and the body?

Thanks, Carl

[Gumball]

Carl,

On my Mk3, I raised mine by using a 1/2" aluminum block. Make sure you use a solid piece, though, just to ensure uniform support - not separate spacers or worse, a pile of washers.

[carlewms]

Chris,

Thanks. I am expanding the opening for the RT turn signal and will have to modify that bracket slightly.

Carl

[carlewms]

Folks,

In keeping with my plans to maintain the original car look and minimizes the modifications from the FFR design, I settled on using the FFR handle assembly. The problem with that assembly is that it requires routing the cables under the 4 in crossmember which, in my view is not a good thing to do because it exposes the cables too much and, without sheathing, also causes more wear on the member and the cables.

After mocking up the handle assembly, I realized that the easiest fix would be to extend the Mount to Rachet bracket to allow the routing to come over the crossmember. Here is a photo showing the original mount over the redesigned mount.

19184

Since I had already purchased cables for the Locke universal, I have a termination point for the cables which will be mounted to provide a smooth transition for the cables to the handle assembly.

Carl

[carlewms]

This morning I got up determined to produce the new pieces for the parking brake. Last night I marked the holes using my originals and the outline using my template.

Here is the process I used to produce the parts:

Mark and drill the holes first before cutting away any of the material to create the shape. This makes it easier to hold the pieces and accurately drill the holes.

Drill both pieces at the same time to make sure the are mirror images. Bolt the two pieces together to drill both at the same time and use a drill vice to keep everything steady;

19244

I did not have a band saw so I used an angle grinder with cutoff wheel to cut the pieces out to a rough shape;
I used a stationary grinding wheel and sander to shape and cleanup put the parts to final form;
After treating the parts with SharkHide, I assembled my new and improved parking brake assembly. Here is the result.

19245

This is the step where I abandoned the remaining fittings from the FFR brake assembly. I used the Lokar connection kit to join up the FFR assembly to the Lokar cables.

19246

The holes in the lower longer arm of the new Handle to Rachet mount were sized to accept the pin from the Lokar kit. I drilled three holes to give me options in the placement of the Lokar connector.

I shortened the cables to mock up the connection to the hand brake assembly. I was concernd ther would be some interference with the bolt holding the rear end of the hand brake assembly if the handle is in the full up position. As it turns out the handle never gets close to the full up position so it is not an issue.

I installed the cable sheave termination assembly on the top of the 4 in crossmember using rivnuts to to hold the assembly on to the member. This keeps everything above the crossmember and in a fairly smooth transition from the vertically oriented to the horizontally orientation at the bottom of the hand brake assembly.

This is the view from the driver's side. I will trim off the excessive cable once the final installation is completed (after installing all the sheet metal).

19247

The cable covers are run through the installed FFR tab installed on the passenger side of the tunnel. Once I get up under the car I will move the grommets in place on the tab. The cable covers end at the Lokar supplied bracket at the lower left hand side of the photo. The bracket was installed using rivnuts in case I needed to remove it later to replace cables, etc.

19248

Here are the views from the Passenger Side . The brake fully engages in about 3 clicks.

19249

Carl

[carlewms]

In my research I found that the GTM and 33 Rod builders are early adapters of this technology. There are a few roadster types but definitely not as many. I am putting it on my Mk 4 and, after getting the system, I am glad I decided to go this non traditional route. De mystifying ISIS multiplexing is the first step in understanding the advantages it has over conventional wiring systems.

I broke out the ISIS 3 cell system and laid it out on the dining room table. Being a mechanical engineer, I had to assemble the system to truly visualize the way it gets laid out and put together in the car.

ISIS is a "hub and spoke" eliminating the need for long powered runs from the switches and fuses to the loads.

The ISIS 3 cell system consists of three cells, a MEGA Fuse block and the data and power wires to connect the cells to the loads and controls.

The Three Cells and MEGA Fuse Block

MASTERCELL: One cell is provided in the kit and serves as the brain for the entire wiring system. It is sort of equivalent to the control functions performed by the non fuse stuff on the fuse block. For example instead a flasher relay, the MASTERCELL, i.e. computer flashes the the lights by controlling power at the POWERCELL by completing that particular circuit.

POWERCELLS: Two cells are provided with the kit one for the loads on the front and one for the loads on the rear of the car. Think of power cells as being functionally equivalent to the relays and fuse block in a conventional wiring harness. These cells are designed to be in the engine compartment as long as they are kept away from the real hot spots like the headers.

MEGA Fuse Block, connected on one side to the battery and the other side to the POWERCELLS provides the first level of protection for the vehicle electrics. Four 60 amp fuses (2 per POWERCELL) are installed in the block.

CAN Data Cable is the information highway between the cells, providing control and fault indication transmission paths for the system.

Control Unit Connector Wire connects the POWERCELL to the positive side of a load.

MASTERCELL Input Unit Switch Connector connects the switches to the MASTERCELL.

Following the excellent documentation provided with the purchase (which is also available for download from their website), I first installed the wiring looms and other components on the cells.

Here are annotated photos of the respective cells:

MASTERCELL:

19459

POWERCELL (in this case the rear POWERCELL)

19460

MegaFuse Block

19461

Using ISIS considerably reduces the 12V powered wiring that normally runs to a from the fuse box (which is normally located in the DS foot box on an FFR Mk 4). It virtually eliminates high powered circuits behind the dashboard depending on where you place relays for heaters, air conditioning, seat warmers or other loads requiring greater than 25 amps. The ignition switch/start button are wired up with low voltage wiring to the MASTERCELL eliminating the need for any 12v current running through these switches.

More to follow in future updates including the differences in cost, build time, pros and cons of using ISIS over conventional wiring systems.

Carl

PS. Yes the system has several system failure backups to get you home.

[carlewms]

Over the last few days I have managed to cut more aluminum than I intended (i.e. more parts for the Wall of Shame) but I am learning a whole lot ...

I have not purchased a brake or shear so this was all done with a makeshift benchtop brake and hand cut with hand shears.

Like others I wanted to expand the area between the accelerator pedal and the inside wall of the DS footbox. Here is my version borrowed from the many ideas but specially Kliener:

19462

I added about 2 inches at the widest point near the RT accelerator. The inside not as well executed as i like but noise and heat abatement a carpet will most of the sins.

Here are views from the engine compartment side. This side looks a lot cleaner.

19463

19464

This is the view from the front of the car.

19465

The next modification I tackled relates to my phat butt .... I decided I needed to maximize the distance from the bottom of the steering wheel to the seat to make it a little easier to get in and out of the car.

I used 1/2 in piece of alumimun to raise the pillow block without any interference with the master cylinders or the pedal box.

19466

The addition of the RT turn signal as well a change to the pillow block required increasing the size of and moving the hole up on the dash sheet metal. Here are the results.

19467

I will have to make a piece to fit under the shaft to provide support for the bezel I will eventually put on the dash.

Carl

[carlewms]

In a continuing effort to understand and plan the installation on my car...

Here is a simplified overview of how the system is setup and wired.

19525

You can start to see some of the advantages of ISIS:

1. Less Wiring: Instead of routing power for multiple loads (read positive) from a fuse box in the DS foot box, power is run a much shorter distance from the POWERCELL to the load. In the headlight example you reduce wiring by about 2.5 ft;
2. Reduction in Use of Relays/Flashers. Since this function for all loads less than 25A is inside ISIS, this eliminates most relays required. At this point the only relays I believe I will have are the fan relay, the seat warmers and the AC unit. No flashers will be required;
3. Reduction in Connections. With proper planning there will be less connections increasing system reliability and safety. Most relays have 4 connections 2 for the control side and 2 for the power side;
4. Eliminates the conventional Fuse Panel. You trade the fuse panel for the MASTERCELL and distributed POWERCELLS. You can argue that your adding 2 more black boxes vice the one fuse panel. True but you are trading a "dumb" fuse panel incapable of BITE (Built In Test Equipment) increasing reliability and capability you just cannot get with a traditional fuse panel as well as eliminating numerous connections of the components on the panel;
5. Control. As Julian explained in his post, with ISIS you have control of how power is applied to a load. With its Soft Start programming the power applied to the headlights is gradually applied allowing the filaments to heat up slowly increasing reliability and life of the light; and;
6. MEGA Fuse Box. The box will be located immediately above the battery on the PS F-panel. This fused panel provides additional protection for power being distributed to the two POWERCELLs. In the current conventional wiring system, there is not really any protection between the positive side of the battery and the fuse panel or ignition switch.

Carl

[carlewms]

I woke up early and got out in the garage to finish the installation of the Breeze battery box before heading off to work.

Over the last two days, I applied two coats of POR 15 followed by two coats of rattle can black semi gloss Rustoleum paint to the box components. I also drilled two holes in the front so a real screw driver with full grip could be used to the mount screws on the crossmember.

Here are some photos of the installation. I had no assistant so a handy carpenter's clamp became my assistant. She worked hard with no complaints!

19568

The clamp (tireless assistant) held the box against the front x member for all fit up and installation.

Prior to installing the box, I put rubber cement on the washers that provide the gap between the box and the crossmember. This held them in place while I installed the two screws. Since it was a little hard to line up the holes, I used a punch to make sure the rear face of the box, the washers and the tapped holes were lined up.

19569

Since I drilled two holes in the front end of the box, installation of the screws on the rear of the box was a lot easier and I could get a better grip on the screwdriver.

19570

After mounting the rear screws, I aligned and riveted in the three front rivets on the cross member. As recommended by Breeze, I still need to add two more rivets in the front, but it sure seems pretty solid as is.

Here is the mechanically complete box:

19571


19572

I need to buy the battery and mockup the ISIS components associated with the battery to finish the electrical side of the installation.

Carl

[carlewms]

Originally planning to mount the ISIS MEGA Fuse Block on the PS F-Panel, I found there was not enough room for the required (at least in my mind) cover. After deciding to install the fuse block above the Breeze battery box, I made up a 1/8 in aluminum back panel that will support the fuses and be mounted on the front x member above the battery.

I continued working on the fuse box cover which is taking a lot longer than it should because of my steep learning curve.

I prepared a support plate for the MEGA using 1/8 th inch plate and bored holes to mount the fuses. I then scuffed up the plate with sand paper and put on the first coat of POR-15.

19705

I then sprayed the inside of the box with Plastisol spray paint.

19706

I found the following camloc fittings to use on the box for the MEGA fuses from MILSPEC (http://www.milspecproducts.com/PreEngSets.htm#2600):

19707

2600 Series (Truss Head) c-spec Fastener Sets are perfect for general purpose applications such as: UAVs, Remotely Piloted Aircraft, interior panels, electronic enclosures, lighting fixtures, etc. They are design for use where a low profile (truss type) protruding head style is desirable.

They come in complete sets with an adjustable retainer to account for different thickness of materials.

While applying multiple coats to the base and the box interior, I got some of the yard mowed. At least now it is easier to mow now that I knocked the big stuff knocked down.

19708

The sheet metal work got a little easier following the arrival my latest toy from Eastwood:

19709

Carl

[carlewms]

Overnight, I continued the painting cycle on the support plate now shifting to semi gloss black to topcoat the POR-15. The high humidity is impacting the drying time.

Here are the physical characteristics of the Optima 51R battery:

Length: 9.31 in
Width: 5.06 in
Height: 8.94 in


The height is important to the installation of the MEGA Fuse Box which I plan to install above the battery on the crossmember.

I started the fuel tank installation preparations. I unpacked and cleaned off the galvanized tank with acetone and followed that by general purpose cleaner to get the "waxy" protective coating off the exterior of the tank. I was planning to paint with POR but instead decided to treat the tank with SharkHide instead.

19710

In the next step, the straps were cleaned up, rough sanded and painted with POR-15 then topped with semi gloss black. while waiting I assembled the parts for the installation.

19711

The bolts, nuts, and washers are supplied with the basic kit from FFR. The Breeze EZ Fuel Kit has everything else.

19712

The Breeze kit is perfect for those looking for the entire package from one source Breeze eliminates the hassles of sourcing parts individually customizing their kits to meet your needs. I did not need the in tank pump so they deducted it from the package.

The fuel level sender package goes in the large hole in the lower section of the tank. Install the "square" gasket in the groove on the tank and then insert the sender noting the position of the two tabs which dictate the only way the sender can be installed.

19713

I used a large flathead screwdriver to drive the retaining ring to its final position over the fuel level sender.

19714

The tank vent was also installed. Breeze provides a larger vent which allows more air to vent from the tank preventing overflowing during refueling. Care must be taken to ensure that the rubber grommet does not go through into the tank during installation. Definitely use a rubber lubricant like Armorall to make this job easier.

19715

The next connection is the fuel filler on the side of the tank. The seal was a little difficult to install but finally went in with a little massaging.

19716

Carl

[pc12cvs]

Carl,

Great build thread. I've enjoyed keeping up with it as I go along with my build. I've gotta ask... how did you end up getting your differential in? I messed with mine all afternoon, and I thought by the end of it, that it wasn't possible because of the rear cover being different from all the ones I've seen in pictures. But then I saw yours and realized you have the same one I do.

I used the technique described in all the posts I've seen in the forums (i.e. jacking it up with the drive shaft connection going straight up and the axle connections going front to back, and rotating as it goes up), but the rear cover of the CS keeps hitting the rear mounting bracket on the frame, no matter which way I spin it. You got any advice for the trick that you figured out?

Thanks for any help.

Noel

[carlewms]

Noel,

Getting the differential in was a bear. This what I did that was different than the manuals method:

1. I tied a line through the driveshaft end and ran the line up over the frame above the differential essentially hanging the differential by the driveshaft flange;

2. I had help;

3. My helper and I, as we got the differential up to the point of turnoff the drive shaft end forward, supported it from the bottom as we slacked off the line supporting from the top. This was an iterative process;

4. As we moved it up we realized I needed to shave off some of the differential if I was ever going to get it in place, I used a grinding wheel to take off some off case and I recall that this included a little on the back cover. It was not much probably less than 1/8 th of an inch;

5. After that, using the process above, we maneuvered the beast in to place.

In hindsight I would use an engine installation stand to hand the differential because it would be easier to adjust the height of the differential and different stages of installation.

Hope this helps.

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl - Your build is coming along very nicely and it looks great. You're really sweating the details, which will surely result in a great car when it's done... can't wait to see more!

[pc12cvs]

Noel,

Getting the differential in was a bear. This what I did that was different than the manuals method:

1. I tied a line through the driveshaft end and ran the line up over the frame above the differential essentially hanging the differential by the driveshaft flange;

2. I had help;

3. My helper and I, as we got the differential up to the point of turnoff the drive shaft end forward, supported it from the bottom as we slacked off the line supporting from the top. This was an iterative process;

4. As we moved it up we realized I needed to shave off some of the differential if I was ever going to get it in place, I used a grinding wheel to take off some off case and I recall that this included a little on the back cover. It was not much probably less than 1/8 th of an inch;

5. After that, using the process above, we maneuvered the beast in to place.

In hindsight I would use an engine installation stand to hand the differential because it would be easier to adjust the height of the differential and different stages of installation.

Hope this helps.

Carl

Carl,

Thanks for the response. I'll give that a shot. I'm heading to the build school this coming weekend, so I'll re-attack this job two weekends from now. Thanks again...

Noel

[carlewms]

After a hiatus for a three week business trip to Hawaii and American Samoa and a long weekend working on my boat project in NC, I finally get to resume the build.

I returned home to find the bell housing, starter and clutch components waiting at the garage door. For some reason I got the cable for the clutch even though I ordered the hydraulic version.

The engine, transmission, and the cooling system components arrive tomorrow.

I received the FAST EZ EFI 1.0 from Levy and after doing some research, decided to return it and upgrade to the 2.0 version. After getting some great feedback I decided to install an in tank pump instead of the external inline pump. The 2.0 version allows for an in tank pump and does not require a return line. If I desire I can also use the system to control the ignition system.

The sheet metal mods continue to add up. Mocking up a modification to take advantage of the space above the shallow side of the gas tank will require some significant mods to the trunk sheet metal.

20866

Although tempting to modify the frame, I decided not to mess with the structural integrity of the frame. The mod will add about 1 cubic foot of space in a box 26x16x4.5 inches. The space will also house the rear ISIS POWERCELL for powering all electrical components in aft section of the car.

Carl

[carlewms]

I received my Christmas in August present from Gordon Levy today.

The 347 Stroker arrived today as well as the transmission and radiator.

The engine as delivered. I will be making the following modifications to the engine:

1. Add the air conditioning compressor;
2. Modify an FE expansion tank to use on a SB engine;
3. Add the EZ EFI 2.0 Fuel Injection System;
4. Reroute the spark plug wires to look more like the originals (i.e. come down from the distributor to the middle of the valve covers and then down to the plugs;
5. Depending on how it mounts I may move the oil filter to a remote location (I just do not like having more connections that could leak if I do so);
5. Depending on budget I will get matching air filter and valve covers.

20897

Aluminum bell housing ... cleaned it up before treating with POR 15 and a top coat of gloss black rattle can.

20898

I am still waiting on the Forte Hydraulic Clutch package to arrive.

Super Allow T5 Transmission. I am probably not going to paint this with POR15 but instead clean it up and treat it with SharkHide.

20896

I now have a whole heck of a lot of work to do ... including scoping out the other drive train parts like engine mounts, etc.

Carl

[carlewms]

Finally got some quality build time this weekend almost exclusively focused on preparing the trunk and cockpit sheet metal parts.

I setup a work station to prepare the panels: laying out an old towel on the work table made for a good surface to work with the panels which I found to get easily scratched up if not careful (a stray remnant from drilling a hole sure can cause a mess). I also keep a foxtail close by to keep the work surfaces clean of debris.

21023

21024

The tools I used include a fine point marking pen, the rivet spacing tool provided by FFR, a metal scribe/punch, blue masking tape, and, of course, the ever present drill with a #30 or 1/8th inch bit.

The technique that worked best for me was:

1. To reinstall the piece using cleckos to check the outlines where the panels should be drilled;
2. Using the marker pen, carefully outline the frame members on to the sheet metal. At this point I also note any interferences where riveting would not be possible (weld joints, inaccessible spots, etc.);
3. Utilizing the measuring rule lay out the rivet points taking into account the information learned above;
4. Next, using the scribe, I carefully punch out the locations for the rivets;
5. Folding back the towel, drill out the panels and immediately clean up the metal shavings;
6. Fit the panel to the frame to check fit using the cleckos to hold it in place using the FFR drilled holes; and,
7. If fit is good, I drill the holes in the frame leaving the panel on the frame for now.

Here are some of the results:

21025

21027

21028

21029

For those panels which face the exterior of the car (wheel wells for example) are all treated with a double coat of under coating. I tape off the parts that will be mated to the other panels or the frame.

[carlewms]

I made significant progress on the cockpit and trunk sheet metal over the last few days. With the exception of the modifications I need to make to the trunk, the passenger side foot box and the installation of the transmission tunnel so that I can remove it easily and finish some drilling to the frame.

21174

All parts that are exposed to the elements have been treated with undercoating. I mask off the areas that will be riveted so that the undercoating wont interfere with the figment of the panels on the frame.

21175

I finished fabrication of the upper trunk interior side panels. I wanted a more finished look for the upper trunk. Apparently FFR formerly provided these panels. After creating a template, I cut and fitted the panels taking care to make sure there was no interference with other trunk components.

21176


21177

Carl

[MPTech]

Carl,
Really enjoying your build progress. You are making great headway and a lot of your mods are identifical to what i did.

I don't know exactly how far you are on your trunk mod, but you can gain a couple more inches on your box by cutting the top shelf off at cross bar. With the IRS you can also create a second storage box on the upper level. I was inspired by the trunk battery box, but maximized it for the available space. The small box measures 9"x18"x6.5"deep. The new trunk floor measures 17.5"x26"x5"deep.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/P3030005.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/P3030007.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/P3030008.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/P3030009.jpg

Also, while you're fabbing, don't forget to expand your PS footbox, there's a lot of opportunity there for comfortable foot room!

[carlewms]

MP Tech,

Thanks for the compliments ... I am really enjoying the build part of this deal a lot.

I am planning the expansion of the PS footbox and have already expanded the right side panel on the DS to give some additional room near the accelerator pedal.

One challenge I am having is finding a local source for the 6061 T6 .04 in aluminum panel. I have used Big Box stuff so far but would prefer the heavier gage for the trunk mods and PS footboy. Where did you procure your sheet aluminum?

Did you weld the sides of the boxes or tab and rivet them?

Are you planning on covering the boxes or just leave it as additional space?

Did you put anything between the bottom of the large box and the top of the tank?

The smaller box would be perfect for mounting my rear ISIS PowerCell as well.

Thanks for sharing and providing the dimensions for the boxes.

Carl

[MPTech]

I did a similar DS bump out too and picked up 1+ inches.
MK4 DS FB expansion (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/285649-mk4-ds-fb-expansion.html#post2609097)

The PS is the largest project and really frees up a lot of wasted space on that side (take every inch you can get!) (there's a good picture in here of the difference in size of the original and the modification).
Passenger Footbox Extension (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/294483-passenger-footbox-extension.html)
and this one....
PS footbox / header clearance on a mk4 w/302 (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/273172-ps-footbox-header-clearance-mk4-w-302-a.html)


I got my 6061 T6 .04 aluminum panels from a local Metal Supplier (Shapiro's in St. Louis), but I believe RichGRSC has a great supplier that ships for almost the same cost!

Did you weld the sides of the boxes or tab and rivet them? Riveted

Are you planning on covering the boxes or just leave it as additional space? still undecided, Rich covered his and they look great!

Did you put anything between the bottom of the large box and the top of the tank? just 1/2" of air


Buidling is GREAT, the only thing better is DRIVING! (my build has come to a halt since I got mine licensed and the weather has been great!)
but I'm planning to take my body back off at the end of the month and finish my build and ship the body off for painting over the winter.

[rlampman]

Carl,
Great looking build!
You may want to check out Online Metals (http://www.onlinemetals.com/)
I have used them for almost all my metal. Aluminum and steel. I even got a 3/4"x1 1/2"x6" block of aluminum to make a transmission mount space I think it was $5. I do have the advantage of an hour drive to the will call in Seattle but I have had them ship before and its not bad. At least you can compare. Most of the stuff you get at HomeD is way more even with shipping.
Rod

[carlewms]

Rod,

Thanks for the lead to Online Metals. I checked it out and they have exactly what I need at reasonable prices including shipping. I placed an order and based on their schedule I should see the material on Monday at the latest.

Carl

[carlewms]

MPTech,

The small box looks like an excellent site for a cooler of your beverage of choice ... a new tailgating option. I bet you could insulate it and have enough room for a six pack with some ice ... LoL. Carl

[MPTech]

I wondered that too......... confirmed it last year.

Yep, 3 of them will fit just fine

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/MPTech/IMG_0455.jpg

my wife said it would be perfect for her shoes!! (WTH??) (the only shoes that would go in there would be my walking shoes, when I take off my driving shoes! :cool:

[carlewms]

Taking the good advice from MPTech and others made some modifications to my plan to expand the trunk space.

First I will take the 2 in that exist between the square tube located at the rear end of the upper trunk by cutting off that portion of the upper trunk floor. Here is a photo of what I plan to do with the lower floor.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21266&d=1378558207

I want to have the new space covered so I will install two piano hinges to make what is essentially a horizontal bi fold door over the new space.

I also created a new panel to cover the ISIS MASTERCELL above the transmission cover forward under the dash. I will also use this panel to mount such things as the AC controls (if installed), the seat warmer switches and other aux switches. It will be mounted using rivet nuts so that I can remove the panel for access to the MASTERCELL

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21268&d=1378558211

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21267&d=1378558209

[carlewms]

More sheet metal work over the weekend as well as continuing planning on the dash layout.
Here is what the dash layout looks like so far.

21384

The panel (removable) will cover the ISIS MASTERCELL and have switches for the seat warmers, map lights, and heater (or AC if I install it).

I also managed to spend more money... I started buying the bling for the engine as well as all the hardware for the mechanical linkage.

The drop off between the cockpit floor and the driver's side foot box bothers me. I think the abrupt drop will be harder to carpet and would be an additional wear point. To solve the problem I fabricated a transition part:

21387

In addition, the driver's side inside panel and the foot box top were fitted up and the interior sides under coated.

21388

21389

I upgraded the top to have the access way to the top of the pedal box. These will not be installed until I have the hydraulic clutch kit from Forte which I expect any day now. I also plan to install the insulation and sound blocking material before the final button up.

Carl

[Rich]

I really like the way you are doing your car up! Great mods! Keep it coming.

[carlewms]

I started the lower trunk modifications ... and took an approach many others have with some slight modifications. I also wanted to try to minimize the use of specialized tools using only hand shears, jig saw, dremel tool with grinding wheels and bench top sander to shape the panels that need fabricated or modified.

First I do not have access to a 30 in sheet metal brake so this approach takes the least amount of "bending" from my perspective. I will have only one bend to make that will not fit into my 24 inch brake and I will use a make shift shop brake to make that one bend.

I did not want to have to recreate any of the bends and cuts already in the trunk floor provided with the kit particularly at the forward and rear of the flooring.

Here is how the panel looks before modification:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21458&d=1379087372

First I cut off the front of the panel leaving a lip at the forward lower lip of the panel:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21460&d=1379087773

This approach includes reclaiming about 1.5 inches of additional space at the forward end of the lower trunk.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21462&d=1379087778

I then modified it to fit around the weld beading on each of the frame members to the side of the trunk.

In order to get the modified panel to fit against the vertical square tubes that support the front straps of the gas tank, i used the Dremel tool with a grinding head to carefully grind the weld bead down. These will be treated with POR15 and painted with semi gloss black prior to installation:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21461&d=1379087776

The upper trunk floor will be trimmed back to the square tube (about 1.5 inches) before final installation.

Next Steps:

1. Remove the rear section of the original trunk floor;
2. Fabricate a new floor for the upper tank area to the right of the trunk that adds about 1.5 inches in space;
3. Fabricate the box that goes on the left 2/3 of the trunk to create the new space in the lower trunk.

Carl

[carlewms]

First Breaking News ... I cannot fabricate the boxes without a finger brake purchased or home made. So the darn boxes are NOT done. Instead I focused on the floor and other details needed for a clean trunk installation.

After fabricating the floor above the higher section of the tank I cut out the box and immediately ran into problems. I cannot bend the the boxes and do require a proper finger brake to make these boxes. I will order the 30 inch 3 in 1 on Monday or farm it all out for about the same cost. I would prefer to buy the equipment, learn a new skill than pay the same amount to some one to produce the two boxes and the expanded foot box.

I also took the tank back out since I needed to do it for the installation of the sheet metal on the PS and the new quick jack bolts fitted up. This also allowed me to undercoat the complete tank. Here are the results:

21539

This is how it looked before I started.

21540

I created the panel to over the left side of the tank using 6061 T6 .036 in thick aluminum I panel.

21541

21542

Since the plan is to have a bifold cover for the box, in installed a piano hinge along the horizontal section of the forward wall that transitions to the lower to upper trunks.

21543

The hinge is attached with 3/16 in rivets.

Part 3 to follow.

Carl

[carlewms]

After completing the right side of the trunk top I decided to add a section on the DS of the trunk to square away the access to the box. This also moved the side of the top out to match up with the hinge line. This avoided modifying the DS of the bifold door to clear the frame section in the corner.

21544

Since I am reclaiming 1.5 inches of space by moving the lower to upper trunk transition panel forward, I needed to cover the end of the frame exposed now. I probably gone with some type of welded insert but since I have no welder this was easier for me.

21545

I will rivet it in so all the tabs are underneath the visible panels.

Carl

[carlewms]

This morning I got up and finished the rivnut installation of the access cover on the DS foot box top. Getting the rivnut locations to line up with the cover required some resizing of the access panel holes.

21546

The parts from McMaster-Carr arrived this afternoon and I installed the access panel with these knobs:

21547

Here is the profile view of the knob from McMaster-Carr

21548

Carl

I may add a gasket material to make it more weather tight.

[carlewms]

Working through a few more modifications ...

I finished coming up with a version of the rear quick jack bolts for the rear bumper. All the parts came from McMaster-Carr using the same bolt and thread size as the originals:

21637

The threaded rod is cut long enough to give plenty of room once the body is on to cut to the appropriate length.

Another of the mods being installed is the transmission tunnel fresh air vents. As others have done I purchased GMC Yukon vents from eBay, primed the vent and painted it semi gloss black.

21638

To help force the air to the vent while in motion I fabricated a sheet metal scoop to go not the inside wall of the transmission tunnel. Here it is in primer, but will be under coated as are the other sections inside the tunnel.

21639

Carl

[carlewms]

Yesterday I completed the fabrication of the second, or in my case the DS transmission tunnel, air vent scoop. Here are some some photos showing the steps in the process:

In order to create the scoop, I laid out the lines on the sheet metal marking which ones are cuts and which are bends. It is sized to fit just outside the 4 inch diameter of the GMC Yukon vents which I painted semi gloss black.

21655

I then cut out the basic shape using hand shears and bent it into shape. This time I marked the holes and drilled them before bending.

21656

After two primer coats, I sprayed it with a professional version of under coat paint. The good news is the rough surface of the undercoating hides my much less than perfect sheet metal skills.

21658

The scoops will be installed on the forward transmission tunnel walls after the cockpit floor panels are installed permanently.

Car

[2bking]

Carl, your build is very nice with a lot of personal touches. I think you know your away around sheet metal.

I like the tunnel vent scoop and am wondering whether you are looking for cool air on a hot day or warm for an autumn drive. I'm thinking the air coming from below will be mostly radiator exhaust and from around the headers. I will be driving mine mostly in the hot climate of Texas. So, will they be helpful for me?

[2bking]

Carl, I noticed in the picture in post #52 and again in #61 that the spring hat on the bottom of the shock is very close to hitting the lower control arm. Mine looked this way and contacted the arm with very little up swing. I search the forums and found the fix is to make equal spacers to center the shock. I made 4 at .750 long.

[carlewms]

Carl, your build is very nice with a lot of personal touches. I think you know your away around sheet metal.

I like the tunnel vent scoop and am wondering whether you are looking for cool air on a hot day or warm for an autumn drive. I'm thinking the air coming from below will be mostly radiator exhaust and from around the headers. I will be driving mine mostly in the hot climate of Texas. So, will they be helpful for me?

I cannot remember where I saw it, but there are those that report that you actually get cool air from the vents; others that say the air is hot. I am going to test at go cart stage just to make sure it works before final installation by leaving the boot off the emergency brake and see what happens.

Carl

[carlewms]

Carl, I noticed in the picture in post #52 and again in #61 that the spring hat on the bottom of the shock is very close to hitting the lower control arm. Mine looked this way and contacted the arm with very little up swing. I search the forums and found the fix is to make equal spacers to center the shock. I made 4 at .750 long.

Thanks for the heads up. I will check and add the spacers. Carl

[carlewms]

Carl, I noticed in the picture in post #52 and again in #61 that the spring hat on the bottom of the shock is very close to hitting the lower control arm. Mine looked this way and contacted the arm with very little up swing. I search the forums and found the fix is to make equal spacers to center the shock. I made 4 at .750 long.

I finally got to chance to check the spacers tonight. Here is what I found: the spacers are installed per the manual with a shorter spacer in front and a longer spacer on the rear side. The installation this way does put the hat very close to the LCA. It looks like I should pull these spacers and follow your lead. Thx Carl

[carlewms]

I have been away on business travel for the last 2 weeks precluding actually working on the car but not preventing spending money on the car ...

After initially planning to use a cable clutch per the FFR manual I changed plans going to a hydraulic clutch instead. I received the parts (except the master cylinder yet to be ordered) from Mike Fortes while I was gone.

22522

Thanks to some forum help, I now can go forward with my plans to use an FE style burp tank on the SBF engine.

I first have to acquire a straight thru coolant neck down from the engine block:

22523

Use it to replace the current 90 degree neck down:

22524

I will then make the modifications to the burp tank to connect the tank to the neck down. Others on the FFcars.com site have done this with success. It will go with the old school look I am trying to achieve. I picked an FE burp tank for about $60 on eBay but it needs the mods to make it work on a SB.

22525


22526


22527

For information on the modification, check out this link: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/160-modifications-originality/289013-how-oem-big-block-ford-degas-tank-small-block.html

Carl

[carlewms]

After picking up some lock and jam nuts that were mysteriously missing, I finally got the MC installed with the pedal travel adjusted so that I could get full stroke of the cylinder.

I, like others, had to either cut into the square tube or modify the clutch pedal. I chose the later and decide to do it in place. :idiot2:

White a real pain to do in place, I do think I was able to get least amount of the pedal arm removed while simultaneously getting the maximum stroke. The indentation of the pedal arm also acts like a stop.

http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/gallery2/main.php/d/63436-2/IMG_4461.JPG?g2_GALLERYSID=fae251dc1fe63c067b773c9 8ab69a2a2

The clutch and brake pedals are about even with the movement of the pedal to give max stroke to the MC. I think this is the right starting point for adjustment when the transmission is installed.

http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/gallery2/main.php/d/63442-2/IMG_4462.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=fae251dc1fe63c067b773c9 8ab69a2a2



Carl

[carlewms]

On Thursday my latest acquisition arrived from NC. One of the members of the CACC posted a 16 ft trailer for sale and the price was right. It included the wheel chocks, tie downs and the hitch. It needs a little TLC but nothing major. Here are a couple of exterior shots:

23372

23373

23374

Before a major haul I will put new rubber on the trailer. A little polish with a wax followup will cleanup most of the exterior. The interior really only needs some tidying up of the wiring. I need to get the included sway control bar cleaned up and get the rust off the fittings (or replace the unit).

Carl

[carlewms]

I finally had a chance to speak with the FAST EZ EFI Tech Support regarding the use of their rubber fuel line with ethanol blended fuels and some other stuff:

1. The rubber fuel lines they now provide with their kits are certified/qualified to be used with fuels blended with ethanol.

2. With the 2.0 version of the system you can install it as a returnless system; their returnless system controller varies the speed of the pump (I guess depending on demand) to maintain the constant pressure instead of using a return loop with a pressure regulator. In addition to the return line this eliminates the addition of the pressure regulator and vacuum hose. They claim to have been running a test vehicle for 36,000 miles on the returnless system without failure;

3. With the 2.0 system you can control the ignition as well but I have yet to see how it saves you anything since you still need an ignition box ... This however could be my lack of understanding of the system :uglystupid2:

Carl

[carlewms]

Now that I got the clearance on using the rubber hoses that came with the FAST EZ EFI system, I can get back to getting the fuel line run from the tank to the engine compartment. I want to get the fuel tank reinstalled and the lines run while the car is on the higher dolly position because access is easier.

So here is the first of a series of posts focusing on the fuel line installation.

I finished what I started yesterday on the preparations to install the fuel system from the trunk to the engine compartment, after determining from FAST that the rubber hose they provide is certified for use with ethanol blended fuels, I decided to use the hose provided in my installation.

Determining the routing took a while to figure out ... Probably too much thinking.

I will come forward from the tank and mount the fuel filter on the PS IRS box support member. This location will make it easy to remove while simultaneously keeping it and the line away from the moving IRS components.

23375

Since there was no mounting bracket for filter supplied by FAST, I fabricated one from aluminum bar. Here are the photos:

23376


23377


23378

The bracket was sized to hold the filter horizontally across the frame member. The notches in the ends was sized to accept a rubber grommet to hold the filter in place. I mounted a rubber grommet on each end of the filter that fits into the u-shaped filter supports.

23377

When the AN 6 fitting is tightened on to the ends of the filter it slightly compresses the rubber grommet to secure the filter in the bracket.

23379

Next...prepping and painting the bracket and reinstalling the fuel tank.

Carl

[carlewms]

As most of you know, I am trying to maintain an original look in my build.

When I had the engine built, I did not specify the pulley belt system, so I have now a serpentine with a reverse flow water pump.

So here are my questions/assumptions:

1. Am I reducing reliability/safety by using a v belt over the serpentine system?

2. I assume I will have buy a new water pump with a normal with a CW direction. Is this correct?

3. Does anyone have the pulleys or a source for the pulleys? I have found online sources but most are aluminum billet versions and some individual pulleys like the crank (but know complete kits).

Thanks in advance,

Carl

[edwardb]

I've struggled a bit with belts and pulleys on both of my builds. There are just so many variables, including what accessories you're driving, offsets (including harmonic balancer, water pump, etc.) and drive ratios (whether to underdrive, etc.). There are probably more. I did v-belt with my Mk3, and serpentine with my Mk4. In both cases, only driving a water pump and alternator. Took some experimentation and returned parts in both cases. Good luck! Responses to your questions:

1. No. V-belts have been used successfully for decades. They probably don't last quite as long, but they're also way cheaper. One of the big advantages of serpentine belts is they can drive from both sides. Can't do that with a V-belt, but depending on your setup may not matter. In general, I found a few more pulley options with serpentine because they're a little more common now. But the right parts should be available either way.

2. Depends on your setup. If only running a water pump and alternator, then yes a CW water pump.

3. I used March Performance on both of my builds. Not cheap, but good quality and they have a lot of options. Although I personally haven't called them, I've heard their tech support line can be very helpful to walk you through your setup. Mark Reynolds at Breeze also has a number of pulleys for our builds. Mike Forte is another option. Don't overlook the drive ratio aspect mentioned in my opening. Many go to underdrive pulleys to save some HP, but then later have cooling or charging issues. There are on-line calculators to help with this. I ended up NOT using underdrive on either of my builds. The possible 10-15 HP gain is not worth it for me.

Here's a thread I started on the other forum setting up the 347 in my Mk4 build. Lots of responses and eventually worked it out. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/346194-alternator-bracket-pulley-alignment.html

[carlewms]

Edward,

Thanks for the very helpful response specially the one about under drive pulleys. I am with you, trying to save 10-15 hp is not worth having cooling or alternator issues.

If I continue with plans to have AC, I will be driving, the water pump, alternator and compressor.

Thanks,

Carl

[CraigS]

Carl I think I had a question for you on the other forum which you just answered here w/ the plan for AC. Obviously I want you to build your car the way you want but ...an AC compressor on the driver side makes it a natural to stay w/ a serp belt setup. It's just so easy to run one belt and catch all four pulleys.

[carlewms]

Craig,

Sooner than later, I have to finalize the decision on AC. The wife wants it; but I see it as more of a PIA at least with respect to the build and my desire to keep with an authentic look.

Keeping the serpentine belt system with AC would make it all a lot easier and save on replacing the pulleys, brackets, etc.

Carl

[carlewms]

Is this tab used for anything? Can I remove it?

23795

Carl

[edwardb]

Asked the same question over on the other forum just less than a year ago. Seems it's needed for certain donor tanks. If your tank doesn't need it, cut if off and put a patch on the trunk aluminum. Looks neater and easier to carpet/finish the trunk area. That's what I did. Here's the thread, with a minor grammar diversion. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/300504-mk4-fuel-tank-mounting-what.html

The patch is visible in this picture.
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2006052013/th_IMG_2121_zpsa82be246.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2006052013/IMG_2121_zpsa82be246.jpg.html)

[carlewms]

Edward,

Thanks for the rapid feedback. I have got the tab removed and waiting for the paint to dry.

Carl

[carlewms]

Saturday was spent working a little on the engine, a little on garage clean up and organization and last but not least getting more hardware for mounting components.

I spent most of the time getting the FE Burp Tank mocked up on the engine. In my somewhat misguided quest to at least make the visible parts of the build look old school I decided to include a big block FE Burp Tank just forward of the distributor above the water pump. Not a new idea having been done by several and there is an excellent how to on now of the ffcars.com site.

Here are some photos of the results so far ... I will be moving the alternator and installing V belt pulleys with a CW rotating water pump so all this has to come back off.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef497893ee0d500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201125446786.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I fabricated a mounting bracket from 1/8 in aluminum plate, drilled it out to match up with the holes on the pump casing and the burp tank bracket, bent it to get clearance from the distributor and then trimmed off the bottom to match the contour of the timing gear cover behind the water pump.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef4971b80611200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201125450728.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The mounting bracket, in primer, is held in place by 2.5 in long 5/16-18 cadmium bolts which will be held on place by nut and lock washer.

Here is the view from the DS.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef4971f5e61ce00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201125445938.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is the view from the PS.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef496a661804900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201125453632.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Still need to get the tank pressure tested and mock up the connections from radiator which occur after I get the engine in the car.

[carlewms]

Does anyone have a source for the SC dash? I would like to replace my FFR 427 dash with one that is already cut and a little thicker than the factory supplied version. Carl

[carlewms]

One of the most challenging aspects of building these cars, specially if you are doing modifications from the standard build, is sequencing the installation. In this case I needed to make sure the quick jack bolts were installed before the gas tank. That meant I had to have the sheet metal in that area installed so I could install the bolts...etc, etc, etc. :eek:

Taking inspiration from the lessons learned by others, I installed the quick jack connections so I would avoid the issues of trying to do it with the tank installed. All parts were sourced from McMaster-Carr.

First I sourced the same size and thread count as the bolts supplied by FFR to maintain consistency or adaptability with existing over riders or nerf bars (7/16-14). All components were treated with SharkHide prior to installation.

(4) Bolts 1.5 in
(8) Nuts
(8) Washers
(4) Coupling Nuts 1.25 in

The following additional components will be used to attach the body and quick jacks/over riders.

(1) All Thread (to be cut to fit)
(8) Nuts
(8) Washers

The 1.5 inch bolt were installed with washers on either side of the frame with a dab of Wellwood on each component.

I then installed the panel using 1/8 in aluminum rivets and adhesive. The nuts were then installed on the quick jack bolts followed by the coupling nut. I may need to order longer coupling nuts to get more engagement on the all thread.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef49759eb615800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201212419238.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Since I removed the tab on the passenger side of the rear gas tank support, I fabricated a small cover to fill in the hole remaining.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef49763d9e04700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201212558122.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is a photo of the completed installation.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cc20b3127ccef49685f4c05500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420131201212550991.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

Folks,

In a previous post Bill asked about the difference between the FFR and the Finish Line over riders. Over the holidays I received the two I ordered from Finish Line. Here are a couple of photos. For comparison I am using the one Bill provided in a photo (which I am assuming is an FFR version) from his car:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df20b3127ccef557a111337400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140101184438805.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is the over rider from Finish Line which is different ...

Back of the over rider.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df20b3127ccef5568915132800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140101190401799.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Unlike the FFR version, the attachment points are in two threaded bosses ... here are a couple of views.

Looking into the bosses:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df20b3127ccef55787cdb28b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140101190411746.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Side view of the bosses:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df20b3127ccef5569661d2fb00000030O39AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140101190429209.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

View of the side wall of the over rider:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df20b3127ccef556a222539200000030O19AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140101190438753.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Other differences ... The FFR appears to be stamped metal (I think) while the Finish Line is chrome on brass. It would appear that the FFR version has more room for adjustment since you can get behind the attachment point whereas you cannot on the Finish Line version.

Since I like the Finish Line versions better I will need to rethink how I will attach all to the body now.

Carl

[rlampman]

Carl, I have the Finnish Line full bumpers as well and need to find a way to make it easier. I think the front will work out OK using nuts inside on the frame but the back its harder with the fuel tank in the way. I was thinking of trying to find coupling nuts with one side reverse threaded so it would work like a coupler. Would need a reverse threaded bolt to go into the frame with a nut. Then you could place the all thread in the over rider, through the body, then thread and tighten them together with the coupler. Not sure how it would work or where to get the hardware but one idea. I'm watching to see what you come up with and how well it works. Also, are you going to use the Finnish Line rubber bushings in the rear or stay with the split tube to hold the body?
Rod

[milehighsnake]

I did the same and I took this one step further to make a clean trunk. I also cut off the tank strap mount and weld it back on below the aluminum panel like the DS strap mount is. This also required cutting out some of the tank strap between the loop and strap to compensate for lowering the mount. I then welded the loop back onto the strap. Now I'm able to patch the entire area creating a clean lower trunk area for carpet installation and storage :rolleyes:.

[milehighsnake]

Is this tab used for anything? Can I remove it?

23795

Carl
I did the same and I took this one step further to make a clean trunk. I also cut off the tank strap mount and weld it back on below the aluminum panel like the DS strap mount is. This also required cutting out some of the tank strap between the loop and strap to compensate for lowering the mount. I then welded the loop back onto the strap. Now I'm able to patch the entire area creating a clean lower trunk area for carpet installation and "storage"- ha ha.

[carlewms]

Mile High

I like that idea .. I do not have any welding capability so I would have to get someone to do it for me. I sure would make for a cleaner looking trunk and an easier installation.

Carl

[carlewms]

Carl, I have the Finnish Line full bumpers as well and need to find a way to make it easier. I think the front will work out OK using nuts inside on the frame but the back its harder with the fuel tank in the way. I was thinking of trying to find coupling nuts with one side reverse threaded so it would work like a coupler. Would need a reverse threaded bolt to go into the frame with a nut. Then you could place the all thread in the over rider, through the body, then thread and tighten them together with the coupler. Not sure how it would work or where to get the hardware but one idea. I'm watching to see what you come up with and how well it works. Also, are you going to use the Finnish Line rubber bushings in the rear or stay with the split tube to hold the body?
Rod

Rod,

The short answer on your last question is have purchased the grommets from Finish Line and plan to them instead of the split tube. I just got the rubber bushings yesterday and I will post some photos later this evening.

I consistently use McMaster Carr for all the hardware. I will post a list of materials and part numbers later this evening so that you have those available.

Essentially what I have done is taken a bolt and mounted from inside (front) the frame with a washer on both sides of the frame. I then put a nut on the outside (backside) of the frame to secure the bolt. Remember to do this after installing the sheet metal that goes on the vertical part of the trunk (I am not sure that is applicable to a Mk II).

I then installed a coupler on the bolt (just after the rear nut described above). I need to check your point on the reverse thread and will let you know what I find out. When I originally designed my solution I was thinking of the FFR style over rider.

Based on the way the threads go into the Finish Line over riders it will be important that the bolt or all thread is fully seated in the boss to avoid creating a weak point in the whole assembly.

Carl

[carlewms]

Quick Review: With the installation of an FE Burp Tank on my SB engine I needed to move the alternator out of the way, i.e. lower on the PS of the engine. The engine as built has a CCW water pump set up to with a smooth pulley to run a serpentine belt.

This required get a CW water pump and a six grooved pulley and that is where the fun began. Now it is not like I am the first guy to do this but the forums were all confusing. :confused: Some posts said you had to change the timing gear cover while others said it did not really matter. After actually speaking with some folks that have done it ... the answer was maybe.

Apparently if you have a timing gear cover for a Fox body car from 79 to 93 and a CW water pump from an 89-91 Crown Victoria the ports align properly and, since the impeller is reversed on the pump, the flow will go in the right direction.

After what seemed like an eternity searching the internet I finally got all the parts sourced including the bracket which was the hardest to find (at least for me).

The first photo shows the timing gear cover with the right and left inlets to the engine block clearly shown.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df29b3127ccef544bb850f1800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109020440113.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

These pumps are centrifugal pumps where the fluid is drawn to the center of the pump impeller or the eye and then exits the pump at the edge of the impeller and volute at a higher pressure thus creating the flow.

Without taking the cover off the back of the pump you cannot really tell that the impeller on the CW pump is reversed but you can tell the discharge ports at the edge of the pump clearly align.

First the old pump ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df29b3127ccef544748a4fe800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109020440213.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Next the new pump ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df29b3127ccef545ee7cee2f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109020446231.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I had originally planned to do a more old school look of a v belt but after going through all this I will save that change for a post completion modification.

It felt good to get back out wrenching it again.

Carl

[Gordon Levy]

The easiest way to tell a reverse rotation pump vs a standard rotation pump is the pulley bolt pattern. It is a wider pattern on a reverse rotation pump. Most V belt pulleys won't fit a reverse pump and visa versa.

[chopthebass]

This might sound dumb for someone planning a build, but what is a burp tank?

[carlewms]

Gordon,

Thanks for the tip ...

"The easiest way to tell a reverse rotation pump vs a standard rotation pump is the pulley bolt pattern. It is a wider pattern on a reverse rotation pump. Most V belt pulleys won't fit a reverse pump and visa versa".

Chopthebass,

Burp tank = expansion tank. The FE has a large expansion tank near the front of the engine. With some modification, the tank can be made to work on a SB engine and it the opinion of some it gives the engine compartment a more old style or (dare I say) big block look.


This might sound dumb for someone planning a build, but what is a burp tank?

[carlewms]

Overnight I continued exploration of the differences between the two water pumps for the engine.

Gordon Levy provided a point that the easiest way to tell the difference between the CCW and CW water pumps was the spacing of the mounting holes for the pulley. In the photo below you can see the difference with the holes for the CW pump on the right are spaced closer than those on the CCW pump on the left. The March 6 groove pulley came drilled for both spacings.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df28b3127ccef547e139f6d900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109164442431.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The pump on the right is the CCW pump and has a slightly larger spacing. The one on the left had the new pulley mounted with the smaller pattern.

The following is only for those that want to know how the pumps work; skip to the next two paragraphs if you don't want theory!

In this case the colder water flows from radiator to pump inlet. This is routed to the center of the pump, specifically to the eye of the impeller. This is the lower pressure or suction side of the pump.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df28b3127ccef547e16677b600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109163823520.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The rotational energy created by the engine through the crankshaft and belt is converted to velocity energy. The shape of the volute or exit to the pump converts this velocity energy to a higher pressure before it is sent on to the engine block via the two discharge outlets. Remember that Italian guy named Bernoulli; he is responsible for describing mathematically how this all works.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df28b3127ccef54672fc968100000050O29AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109163826184.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

In the photo below, please remember that the direction of rotation is based on looking at the pump from the front, thus the arrows on the photos in the opposite direction.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df28b3127ccef5477deff64100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140109163824039.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Besides the rotation direction difference, the only other differences that affect function are the shape of the impeller, the volutes and the previously mentioned spacing for the pulley. The volute on one side of the new pump is larger than the one on the old pump, but I am not sure that makes a whole lot of difference.

I will get it installed this evening if all goes right.

[carlewms]

Bracket

The kit consists of an aluminum billet bracket, the spacers, screws and the adjustment turnbuckle to install the alternator in the lower position on the passenger side of the engine. To obtain the kit contact Aaron Price at mrgofast27@aol.com (He accepts PayPal) Here is photo of the kit as delivered:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef540cc4303fe00000030O29AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140110101414947.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The following photo (not my car) shows the kit installed on the engine.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef540342082d100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140110101945354.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Water Pump

1. CW Water Pump: Summit (GMBH-125-1700) made by GMBH comes with paper gasket.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef54190eea20100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140110101409522.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

2. 5.0 Liter Water Pump Pulley (MCH-2004) made by March comes with both CCW and CW mounting holes.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef5415f3c631c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140110101410132.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[edwardb]

Bracket

The kit consists of an aluminum billet bracket, the spacers, screws and the adjustment turnbuckle to install the alternator in the lower position on the passenger side of the engine. To obtain the kit contact Aaron Price at mrgofast27@aol.com (He accepts PayPal) Here is photo of the kit as delivered:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef540cc4303fe00000030O29AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140110101414947.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/



Ah, the famous Speed Doctor alternator bracket. That's the one I used on my Mk4 build as well. Really solid and the placement is just right.

I was thinking about the ********** overriders, but now after seeing your pictures, not so sure. I'll be interested to see how they work out for you.

Your build is looking great.

[carlewms]

The new water pump is installed and the alternator moved to the lower position on the PS side of the engine. Prior to mounting the components I treated them all with SharkHide. Aaron Price's alternator mounting bracket kit fit perfectly for a serpentine belt installation.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef5409cfc825900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140111043348033.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef54128b1233200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140111043345095.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I also mocked up the connection from the thermostat housing to the bottom connection of the burp tank. A 1 1/2 inch hose from the local Pep Boys and a 1 1/2 in aluminum tube from Breeze connect the outlet side of the coolant system. Still missing are the period correct hose clamps.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef54128b1233200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140111043345095.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After seeing it all together, I may need to lower the tank a bit to get more clearance on the hood. This will have to wait until I get the body on the chassis for now. By re fabricating the bracket I can lower the tank about. 2-3 inches of clearance from the hood.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df31b3127ccef5415307e21100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140111043342471.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

In addition to the possibility of lower the tank, I still have some painting, additional screws/bolts to install and to get an appropriate sized belt.

I eventually will convert the serpentine belt system to a more period correct v belt system.

Carl

[Jazzman]

Thank you, Carl, for your very detailed thread. I am a good year and half behind you because I have just started designing my build. I truly appreciate your detailed experiences. I have now read your entire thread, and have been making notes as I go along. Your work has been very thought provoking. I look forward to reading more!!

Jazz

[carlewms]

Jazzman,

Thanks for the kind words...I was just reading your latest posts on line and you are asking all the right questions and I am convinced the more planning upfront the better.

Sincerely,

Carl

[carlewms]

With the super cold weather in Northern VA and other stuff getting in the way the build progress has been slower that desired.

I did make some progress on the dashboard... after much deliberation I decided to go with the 427 SC dashboard instead of the standard one that comes with the kit. I first tried to find a vendor that sells a dash precut for the FFR without any luck but I did find plenty of information on the layout (or at least many variations of the alleged 427 SC layout).

Here is my interpretation so far:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df05b3127ccef565f92f19b000000030O39AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140125003655412.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Although I found a template for the glove compartment (which I understand was not really on an SC), I kinda feel like mine looks too small.

I will also be adding a map light on the passenger side.

Here is a view of the "driver's view" dash:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4df05b3127ccef565f637d80700000050O39AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140125003702221.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D3/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I will post a larger photo showing the names on the gauges and switches but here is the general layout in words:

From Left to Right

Oil Temperature
Red Light = Battery/Alternator
Blue Light = Turn Signal
Water Temperature
Steering Wheel Shaft expanded and raised to accommodate RT turn signal and raised pillow block
Green Light = Headlights
Tachometer

Top Row (Left to Right)

Voltmeter
Fuel Gauge
Oil Pressure

Below Voltmeter

Switch, Fog Lamp
Switch, Hazard Lights
Switch, Push Start

Below Fuel Guage

Speedometer

Below Oil Pressure

Switch, Heater
Switch, Fuel Pump
Switch, Windshield Washer

I still need to figure out the right spot for the light switch, but I am thinking of moving the Hazard Flasher over above the Ignition Switch and put the Light Switch in its place.

I also need to cut the hole for the steering so that I can install the dash to check lines of sight, etc.

For those with a FFR Mk 4, if you can provide any feedback or dimensions of how much of the dash is covered by the front cowl of the body

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

Carl

[edwardb]

Good times, huh? Went through this process a few months ago with my Mk4 build and a blank dash. You mentioned already my first thought. Make sure to set the dash in place on the chassis, put the seat in, mount the wheel, and check line of sights. Make sure you can see everything adequately. I did some tweaking with my setup at that point. Even something simple like using the thicker leather wrapped wheel vs. the standard wood wheel can make a difference.

Regarding your actual setup, personally I would put the oil pressure gauge right in front. That with the water temp are probably your two most important gauges that indicate health of your engine, and should be watched most frequently.

This is kind of an obvious statement, but don't forget about the size of whatever your mounting on the back while finalizing the location. The provided Delco style headlight switch takes a small hole but is big on the backside and has a large connector with pretty specific routing.

How much of the dash is covered by the body is an often discussed subject. Obviously depends on exactly where you mount the dash on the 3/4 tube. And probably you have seen other posts (and I've personally confirmed) the curve of the top of the dash does not match the curve of the 3/4 tube, especially if you mount the dash level. Maybe you saw in my build thread, but I was concerned enough about this entire subject that I temporarily set my body on the chassis to get the exact location, overlap, etc. Overkill perhaps, but I thought it was worth the effort to be positive. Was only a couple of hours work and accomplished some other checks at the same time.

[carlewms]

All,

I have been delinquent in my updates but also my thanks for the feedback on the dash.

Edward: I am moving the water temperature gauge to the left position in front of the driver and the oil pressure gauge above the steering shaft.

Right now the dash is at home...and I am on a 2 week business trip to American Samoa. Therefore I can only dream and plan on getting the mods in place when I return.

I have a drill press, various hole saw sizes and the stepped drill bits.

For those of you that cut your own holes in the dash, what methods and tools did you use to get all the holes of the right diameter? I am worried about screwing up the dash.

Carl
.

[Gordon Levy]

I have the correct layout. Send be a blank dash and I can have it water jetted.

[carlewms]

Gordon,

What would I need to do to show the relocated steering shaft for the RT turn signal? I raised the pillow block so I would need to adjust for that change.

Thanks,

Carl

[edwardb]

For those of you that cut your own holes in the dash, what methods and tools did you use to get all the holes of the right diameter? I am worried about screwing up the dash.

Carl.

You want the holes in the dash to be pretty precise, meaning the diameter of the gauges plus the thickness of the vinyl so you can pull it through the holes and bond on the back side. I wanted my gauges to be slightly snug in the opening. There may or may not be hole saws for these exact dimensions. Doesn't matter for me though because I don't have any metal cutting hole saws, and didn't want to buy them just for this. I used a variety of methods. For the larger holes, I cut them out with a sabre saw with a fine tooth metal blade. For the smaller holes, where the sabre saw blade didn't like the small turns, I free-handed with a zip bit in a Dremel tool. Some of the smaller switch holes I could use a step drill. In all cases, I rough cut to the edge of the desired outline, and then smoothed and got the final size with drum sanders in my drill press. Don't over think all of this. The aluminum really is easy to work with, and cuts and sands pretty quickly. I doubled my dash, so was doing this on .080 vs. .040, and still pretty easy.

The blank dash does come with the steering column hole cut. (Of course you know that.) Even though I didn't change the location, I still didn't want the hole that big because it would show, like it does on my Mk3. So I made a filler and have only the smaller hole required. You could do the same.

Before:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2008242013/th_IMG_2257_zps111c6e00.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Update%2008242013/IMG_2257_zps111c6e00.jpg.html)

After:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/th_IMG_2276_zps728e5665.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2276_zps728e5665.jpg.html)

[carlewms]

Folks,

Today the my new Big and Tall leather seats arrived from FFR. I will be sending back my original leather seats for a credit but while they both are here I did a comparison of the two.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef5278a2994f500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004033454.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The two versions appear to use the same frame. The extra width of the big and tall is achieved in how the foam is cut. The main difference between the two is the thickness

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef5272175555400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004612724.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The thickness of the foam padding is visible in this view of the seat backs.

The following two photos show the differences in the seats:

The original seat:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef526e6efb44900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004042289.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The big and tall seat is deeper and wider than the original one ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef526ffebf4d900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004036169.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The most noticeable difference is the thickness of the seat bottom ...

The original seat bottom:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef52695db75ec00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004038317.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The big and tall seat bottom is about 1 in thinner that the original and feels like it might be made with a stiffer foam ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc04b3127ccef5276e12158c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140226004040161.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I will post some photos of the two seats in the car later today.

Carl

[WIS89]

I have the correct layout. Send be a blank dash and I can have it water jetted.

Carl-

That sounds like a pretty good option. I was curious also if you were able to put your measurements into a cad file. I bet that would make the process even easier. In other words, after you figure out your final layouts, translate them into a cad file and then have your dash done with a water jet.

Thanks also for the level of detail in your posts. I have enjoyed following along.

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

Steve,

Let me see if I can do that ... I think one of the challenges is always going to be the distance from the body cowl to the top of the dash and how that seems to vary car to car.

I think if I can get the dash layout into a medium which can be printed on a long sheet of paper with the standard positions then a builder could use it to adjust for the height differences and then adjust the cad file origination point to make the layout custom fit to their particular car.

Carl

[carlewms]

Folks,

I got a chance to get both seats out in the garage this afternoon and took some additional measurements for your consideration.

Here is a comparison of the two seat pads in reference to the x frames on the side of the Mk 4 FFR roadster:

The first is the original seat.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc07b3127ccef520dd919df700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227002825730.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The second is the new Big & Tall seat.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc07b3127ccef521ff013c0a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227002841800.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

As you can see the seat pad is much lower on the newer seat. When I sat down in the car with the new seat there does seem to be less support for your calves than on the original seat ... but there is more room under the steering wheel.

Speaking of steering wheels mine is slightly higher by about 1 1/4 inches (best guess) because I mounted a 1/2 in aluminum block under the pillow block to give me a little more room.

The next two photos show the space gained (on an uncompressed seat) for my particular build. First the original seat:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc07b3127ccef52188327c9a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227000929399.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The new Big & Tall seat:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc07b3127ccef52158667ca600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227002831432.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

There is definitely more room with the new seat and, unless I get on a huge weight loss plan, they are the most viable option considering I had already purchased the $800 leather seats from FFR.

Lessons Learned if you want more room:

1. Before you buy try out the Kirkey Lowback Vintage Seats;
2. Before you buy try out the FFR Big & Tall Seats;
3. If you are trying them out in someone else's car make sure that the setup of the steering wheel and any seat slides are taken into consideration;
4. If you really want customized seats, buy the less expensive vinyl version and then take it to a local upholstery shop to get it custom fit your needs and then covered in leather if you like;
5. The FFR Big & Tall seats sacrifice calf support for more room under the steering wheel. I once I get to the mounting stage, I may raise the front in slightly to increase the support a bit; and,
6. For me although I like the look of the Kirkey Lowbak Vintage Seat the side aluminum or bolsters would have made getting in and out of the car more difficult than the FFR Big & Tall seat.

Carl

[Jazzman]

After reading your travails with seats, I wonder if FFR has a "big and short" seat: wide like the big and tall, but with the thickness of the standard seat pad for those of us that are somewhat "vertically challenged"!! Thanks for the detailed analysis.

[carlewms]

As part of the drawn out effort to make sure that I had my dash exactly like I want it, I finally got the hole for the steering wheel shaft cut so that I could mount the dash on the car taking account of the 1/2 inch aluminum block i installed below the pillow block and the RT turn signal.

After getting the dash on and level, I tried to install the RT turn signal but the inside diameter of the Delrin-like bushing inside the turn signal is slightly smaller than the diameter of the shaft. This prevented me from mounting the turn signal so I just put the steering wheel on without it. Even the steering wheel is sitting about 1/2 in proud of the top of the steering shaft but the view will be improved when it is fully seated.

With the new Big & Tall seat in place, I then took the following photos placing the lens of the iPad in line with my eyes so I could record the view as I would see it so I could then I could study the views without constantly getting in and out of the car.

Here are the results.The first view is looking down at the steering wheel:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc06b3127ccef5228923c54300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227101256980.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is one looking slightly to the right:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dc06b3127ccef52298c0040000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140227101324014.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I am a bit concerned about the Oil Pressure gauge being obscured by the cowl of the body so I may lower it a little, but otherwise I have a pretty good view and wills start the hole drilling process over the next few days.

I am going to use my drill press for all the holes perhaps even the small ones just to make sure I get a good clean cut.

Carl

[carlewms]

Laying out the SC dash has been one of the most mentally challenging things for me to do. After all one mistake on a cut meant restarting on another piece of sheet metal. So it was time to take the plunge... After what seemed forever planning it, I finally had all the tools needed to cut the holes.

Since I had the original FFR dash I measured the inside diameter of holes for the gauges using my dial micrometer. I took several measurements to come to the 2 1/8th inches diameter for the auxiliary gauges and 4 1/8th inches for the speedometer and tachometer.

I tested the system by installing the cutting bit on my drill press and running it on some sample sheet metal backed by 2 x 4.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d6e456ca6100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182435546.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

First I secured the sheet metal and wood 2X4 to the drill press table using two clamps. The drill press was set up to run at a slow speed. I drilled the hole with fairly light pressure on the driving the drill through the piece.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d75c24ea0300000030O29AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182441607.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The results are a very nice clean hole in the aluminum with just a little deburring to do to clean up the hole.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d6a1b10b0c00000030O29AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182448644.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After making sure the set up worked...

1. Using the dial micrometer, I measured the diameter of the main and auxiliary gauge holes in the FFR supplied dash;

2. I transferred the measurements to the cutting tool using the steel rule;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d680a74b9200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182454027.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

3. I made a practice cut in the 2x4 and the checked the outside diameter with the micrometer to confirm that the cutter was set up properly;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d7eb842b5000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182502832.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

4. Using a 2x4 piece of soft pine was used behind the dash material, I set up the drill press to cut the hole;

5. Taking a punch, I made sure there was significant indentation to keep the drill bit from wandering;

6. I clamped down the entire rig after aligning the bit with the indentation; and,

7. Here are the results after cleaning off with a foxtail.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d71bf9aa6500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182511703.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

After installing the gauges in the new panel, I started looking at the switches. I realized quickly that I had not really done all my homework and needed to study the switches required again based on function, appearance, compare to what is on hand, and make some changes.

I found I could use these switches:

Switch, Ignition, Lucas, measured diameter 18.7 mm is installed
Switch, Headlamp Flasher will be wired into the button on the RT Turn Signal
Switch, Wipers, measured diameter 14.1 mm to be installed.

So back to the internet and the wallet...

I ordered the FFR version of the combination light and panel dimmer switch. It puts all the light related functions in one switch. I will get a different knob for the switch to maintain originality (http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/chassis-wiring-harness/).

Indicator Lights. The supplied lights were ok but the blue light was very weak and looked more purple than blue ... At least to me. The LEDs will be more reliable. Here is what the FFR versions look like energized:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d60247ca0300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232536089.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I ordered LED versions of the following lights from Cobra Restorers

Light, Alternator, Red
Light, Turn Signal Green
Light, High Beams, Blue

The bezels that came with the FFR supplied 2 position switches did not match up with the bezels from the other switches or, from what I can see, the originals:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d7a7d3aa1100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232544653.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The buttons that came with the kit has a black plastic bezel.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d7b9ff2b0200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232540182.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I ordered the following from Finish Line:

Switch, Start Button
Switch, Horn Button

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d65ccacaa100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232541131.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Switch, Washer Fluid, Momentary, 2 Position
Switch, Fuel Pump, 2 Position
Switch, Fog Lamps, 2 Position
Switch, Hazard Flashing, 2 Position

As far as process is concerned, I prepared and drilled the holes with the Step bit as follows:

1. Using the dial micrometer, I measured the diameter of the switch threaded shank taking care not to measure at the flats found on some of the switches;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d6d13a8a8f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232527851.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

2. Taking these measurements, I selected the closest step on the step drill to use to drill the hole;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d627f18a3f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301232531796.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

3. A 2x4 soft pine block under the area to be drilled;
4. Taking a punch, I made sure there was significant indentation to keep the drill bit from wandering;
5. Using a variable speed drill, I drilled down to the step BELOW the one I selected in Step 2 above; and,
6. I cleaned off the wood and metal shavings.

Here is the result:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d69ae44bdc00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182527618.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

From the driver's point of view ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d73bac2b1000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182522920.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Behind ... or is it in from to the dash ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d7339e2b2600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182535192.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

From the PS of the vehicle...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd20b3127ccef5d6d2044b1800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140301182531849.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The rest awaits arrival of the new switches and a decision on the glove box ...

Carl

[edwardb]

Looks great. Certainly lots of precision and care (which I like...). I used that same Lucas switch on the horn. It's a nice piece (for Lucas). I also switched to LED indicator lights because the FFR one's are a little dim on some colors. Plus I didn't want to have to change incandescent. LED's should last indefinitely.

Just one question. Do your holes sizes allow space to pull the vinyl through the holes and glue on the back, e.g. in pie shaped pieces? I've done both my builds this way, and I think is pretty common. Prevents the vinyl from pulling away which would really not be nice. I used that process wherever I could. You can see the slices on the back of my dash.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2286_zps2e7976df.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2286_zps2e7976df.jpg.html)

[carlewms]

Edward,

I used the holes off the dash that came with the kit to make sure I had enough room for the vinyl. When I mocked up the instruments, the fit seems to allow room for the vinyl.

I will check to see in the morning.

Thanks,

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl,

Please keep us posted on whether you locate some original appearing chromed switch bezels - I've been looking for a couple and had no luck with the two sources I found in Europe. The ones I'm looking for are the ********** one you picture above and I need a few in various sizes.

[carlewms]

My new assistant started today in the garage providing support for the build. He kept whispering ideas that I quite frankly had not given the level of thought I should have.
å
Here is telling me that I should have thought about picking those parts while I was in town ... and that I should get him some more grain to incentivize him to work harder as my assistant.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd24b3127ccef5dfccf9097400000030O19AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140306005422635.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I am sure the gang on this forum will come up with more choice advice for the goat to give me.

Carl

[carlewms]

In the spirit of two steps forward; one step back...

I had previously set up my brake and clutch reservoirs using braided hose connecting them to the master cylinders. After further research, I decided to go back to a more original rubber hose connection...not to mention my less than reliable skill at putting these connections together.

Luckily, I can use some of the parts from the FFR base kit (banjo fitting with a 3/8" barb fitting) on the master cylinder end. These will be connected to the reservoirs via 3/8" ID rubber hose.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd24b3127ccef5dffac2095400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140306012542867.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I ordered 3/8" NPT 90 deg elbows with a 3/8" barb end from Summit to fit on the bottom of the reservoir cans.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd24b3127ccef5dee3f069be00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140306012538619.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Another mod on the drivers side foot box started. Last week when I was testing the seat options, I noticed that I could benefit from a dead pedal and a little more room to left of my clutch pedal. On the Mk 4, there is not very much room between the foot box and the side of the body.

Again, the value of the forums helped me out. Others have found enough space to expand the outside panel by 3/4" at the bottom and 1.5" at the top.

After laying out the area to expand, I used the same technique that I used on the inside panel of the foot box, cutting three sides, and bending out the the fourth side for the expansion. Here are the results so far:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd24b3127ccef5de54b5293800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140305110755070.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

My 3 in 1 Combination Brake, Shear and Roller comes in tomorrow which will permit me to get the rest of the sheet metal bits bent and ready to rivet in place.

http://metal.baileighindustrial.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shear-brake-roll-sbr3020.jpg

Carl

[DaleG]

Love the goat! Priceless.

[CraigS]

Wow, I wish Nokesville were closer to Annapolis so you could become my new best friend. That combination machine looks fantastic.

[carlewms]

I received my shipment from Cobra Restorers and Finish Line... Both provided excellent service. Cobra Restorers is definitely more expensive but they were the only source I could find for more (well at least ones with a polished bezel instead of plastic) period correct LED instrument panel indicator lights. Finish Line has all the switches with the domed top and the polished bezel.

First the lights...

The LED versions of the warning lights came from Cobra Restorers. They are clearly of a very high quality and much sturdier looking than the ones that came with the kit. They also have a retaining nut and lock washer so the can be tightened up from behind the dash. The ground comes with an eyelet installed and the positive (red) is tinned ready to be soldered. This photo shows the obvious physical differences:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c49163964f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000054616.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5684a77fe00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000056884.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Here are some photos with the lights on...the photos do not quite do the LEDs justice; in real life they are not as washed out as they appear in the photos. The LEDs are on the left.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c59ba337f600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000018918.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5e344b61d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000035813.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Switch Comparison...

Buttons for Start or Horn: The FFR version has a black plastic bezel whereas the Finish Line version is polished metal.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd24b3127ccef5dfceb6093a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140306012553371.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd27b3127ccef5d9da62e19100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140307032654219.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The momentary switches are a little confusing...

The SPB 204 is a five amp switch which, according to various on line sources, is being replaced by NEW 65SA toggle switch spring return switch. The Lucas box has both part numbers on it.

Switch, Head Lamp Dip (Product Code: SH) is on the right below. The Washer Switch SPB 204 (Product Code: Washer Switch) on the left. Both look identical except for the bezel which is a hex head on dip switch.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd27b3127ccef5d8671a816300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140306083901725.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[edwardb]

Carl -- Those exact indicator lights are also available from DelCity.net. I used them as well. I agree they are way brighter than the supplied incandescent bulbs, and look better too.

I have to say, though, you're a brave man for installing that many Lucas switches. (Insert Lucas prince of darkness jokes here) :rolleyes:

[carlewms]

Dumb is probably closer to the right word for my use of the Lucas switches ... and that is after owning 3 British cars.

I may regret wanting to have that look of the original switches but we shall see...

Carl

[carlewms]

I am up at 4:30 in the morning on Saturday the assembling my reservoirs for the brakes and hydraulic clutch. I guess I should say RE-assembling my reservoirs For the brakes and hydraulic clutch, since this is a second go around after my failure with the braided steel lines.

Brake Reservoirs First

This time I used an Earl's Performance Plumbing 90 deg Elbow black 3/8th inch NPT to Barb connector #AT984206ERL from Summit and the washers from Ace Hardware normally used in lamp post assemblies ... a little hokey but it worked. I added a little Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant to make sure everything was sealed up tight.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c49af7577600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140308235910654.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After finishing up the reservoir end, the path through the front DS foot box had to be redesigned to accommodate the 5/8 in OD rubber hoses connecting the the reservoirs to the master cylinders. The cover plate on the left was the one made when the steel braided lines were going to be used. The new one is on the right.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5c2d7773600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000313861.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

One technique to cut a perfectly round piece of sheet metal is to use a hole saw as long as you recognize and factor in the center hole that the guide bit makes when you cut the circle out.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5e95fb60300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000309369.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Setting up my adjustable hole saw to match the radius of the aluminum cover I needed to produce, I then clamped the aluminum on the drill press and cut out a perfectly round plate.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5909df66500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000301577.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

While the guide bit will go through the soft aluminum fairly quickly, the outer bit is moving faster and if you feed the bit down too hard, you can bog down the press or worse yet, cause the it to grab the aluminum. The bit cuts a nice, BUT SHARP chamfer on the edge of the new disk. I took a sand paper sponge and took the sharp out of the piece.

Since I have a hydraulic clutch, there needs to be room for 3 hoses through the cover plate, each about 7/8 in in diameter to account for the 5/8 in OD hose and the 5/8 in ID rubber grommets. After checking the cover plate fit on the frame, I realized I could not line up the three holes but had to lay them out so as not to interfere with the frame:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c4123cd6c900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140308235947122.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After installing the grommets here is the final version. Note that the guide bit hole is pretty much covered by the rubber grommets. After finding some more 3/8 in ID fuel rated hose I measured out and cut the two for the brake reservoirs. Using a little spray cleaner made slipping the hoses grommets easier.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c45cd9d60b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140308235952876.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Although it may be overkill I also wanted to make sure that each of these hoses was secured inside the foot box on the pedal box. Because of the larger diameter of these rubber hoses I had to route one of the hose to the PS master cylinder on the side toward the engine compartment instead of both down between the two brake master cylinders. Using a 1/8 inch thick 1 inch wide aluminum plate I created a bracket to hold the PS master cylinder hose clamp.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5d753372000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000011493.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This flat bracket is bolted on two of the bosses on the Wilwood Pedal box assembly and extends out to the passenger side where the hose clamp is mounted upside down to provide a more direct path for the hose to the barb.

The next step... Fill and Bleed the brakes and then test the hydraulic clutch after I lower the car down to the jack stands.

Carl

[carlewms]

Here are the photos of the finished system. From the PS:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c4d475d6e300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000002443.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

From the DS:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c51dd7b6f100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140308235956587.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

From the top of above the DS foot box:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd29b3127ccef5c5684df6c900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140309000008304.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Ready for fluid and bleeding when I get the car down on the jack stands ...

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl - that reservoir set-up is outstanding!!! Great job at replication - your build is really turning out great.

[carlewms]

After wrestling the new 3 in 1 Combination Brake, Shear and Roller from Bailiegh's this weekend, getting all the cosmoline cleaned of the raw components and making some adjustments to the machine, I got down to expanding the outer panel of the DS foot box to accommodate some room between the clutch pedal and the side of the box.

The machine weighs in at over 430 pounds so some disassembly and reassembly was required to get it out of the back of the SUV and on to the bench.... I'm just glad OSHA was not around during the process.:mad:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5cfe6cb52fc00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313100206873.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

On the FFR Mk 4, there is not a whole lot of room on the outside of the DS foot box for expansion room. After researching all the possibilities, it looked like I could gain about 1.5 inches at the top of the expansion and .75 inches at the bottom.

Here is the layout and dimensions I used ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5cee5fa321800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313091301723.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Mockup views ... from the inside of the foot box and then from the outside:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5ce44d672fc00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313091304766.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

After cutting three sides of the expansion panel, I bent the third side (at the rear of the panel) and then used the brake to fabricate the walls (or I guess you would say sides) of the expansion box.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5ceb67f722c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313091302389.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Here is the finished installation ... Outside

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5ce469d72b600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313091305679.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Inside

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd32b3127ccef5cf4d3393f900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140313105545480.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

In final execution, mainly because the brake operator (me in other words) did not take proper care to make sure to take into effect the bend allowance, the panel sits out about an 1/8th of an inch more than it should. After I mount the body I may find the need to re-fabricate the walls if the expansion "pushes" out the body.

This panel will probably be one of the last panels permanently installed before the final installation of the body so that I will keep good access to the pedal box and foot box.

Carl

[Raceral]

Great build thread... think twice if you really need a dead pedal.
Its nice to stick that left leg out... but I am 6'2...

[carlewms]

After completing the trunk expansion box yesterday I proceeded to try to clean it up a bit. It is not my best work and demonstrates the difficulties in making a box this large the first time on a machine I've never used before.

For a while I thought I was going to have to scratch the whole box and restart again but I managed to find a way to make it work and the multiple errors on the box are essentially hidden by other sheet metal and ultimately the carpet they were going to trunk.

Here are some photos of the work in progress:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f0262f5fee00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061825876.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

One of the challenges was operating the brake at the limits ... at .04 in thick and 26 in long; it takes a lot of umph to get the metal bent.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f193793f3600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061830484.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Since the original trunk cover had an access point to get to the tank level sensor, I needed to do the same on this new box. Using a hole saw and my drill I cut the two and so the opening and then using shears opened up the sides.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f1a1dfbeb900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061831148.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f1f18bbec500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061835163.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After completing the riveting and fabrication of the box I then decided to tackle and fabricate better fittings to cover all openings in the aluminum. When I first started the mockup and installation of the aluminum in the trunk I had made some covers to go in the corners to close out the exposed and I've some of the filing tubes. I had used Home Depot style .025 aluminum panels and these looked kind of flimsy now that I had the other panels installed. Here is a photo comparing the two with the new prove ring made from .04 in T6-6061 on the right.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f19443fea700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061837312.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Having a brake made it much easier to use the smaller gauge material and provided for a much cleaner bend lines than I had previously. Here are photos of the covers mocked up onto the frame:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f118747fe600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061842619.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I had to trim the side panels slightly to accommodate for these covers ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4dd39b3127ccef5f070c5de1f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140319061840372.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Before final install I will paint the outside with undercoating and prepare the inside for Lizardskin.

Since one of the uses of this expanded trunk is to locate the aft ISIS POWERCELL, I next need to figure out the best location for the cell and the routing of the wires to and from the cell.

Carl

[carlewms]

While most of the work was done before the trip to the Texas Cobra Club meeting last weekend, the ride confirmed that the modification will make the PS foot box much more comfortable for the passenger. Using a set of templates produced by others that have done the mod, i created the following panels:

Bottom Panel:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59d399b344e00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033310925.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Front Panel (or the back panel of the foot box):

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59dc68a74b800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033316096.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Top Panel:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59c2804d53d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033317872.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

While I cut a side panel for the inside of the foot box, I miss read the template and cut the panel too short ... so this panel and the outer panel of the foot box had to wait until new sheet metal arrived from online metals.

Carl

[carlewms]

Another pre Texas update...

I then finally tackled the modification to the RT gas pedal to make it look a little more original looking.

Taking 1/8th inch thick plate, I cut a 1 1/2 inch wide plate that I hand formed into the curved pedal. By sticking to the width it allowed me to use all the other RT provided hardware to mount it to the pedal arm.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59de88574a000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033631271.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59d2ac0748400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033632143.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59ce818d54100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033638122.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

After annealing the piece, I hammered into the curved shape... Just enough to work on the pedal arm provided by RT. Utilizing the same geometry as Russ' design, the mounting holes were bored and countersunk to make sure the screws are flush with the surface.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59ce818d54100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033638122.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59dcb2a348600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405033636834.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

The pedal as installed prior to painting:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59fb970edf900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405101418121.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I will paint the parts in semi gloss black and cover the surface of the pedal with a non-skid pad.

[carlewms]

I am jumping around a bit ... somewhat because of jobs of opportunity but also because I have parts coming in at different times ...

The ISIS system uses two POWERCELLs which are essentially smart local fuse panels located at each end of the car.

The front POWERCELL is located on a panel alongside the Mega Fuse Box in the engine compartment (above the x member) above the battery. The rear POWERCELL is located in the box I fabricated to add storage to the trunk.

The front installation. I prepared a 1/8 in thick aluminum plate to mount the two components and drilled it out to install on the x member.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59fa4ecadf300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405103158328.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

One note on POR-15 ... I like it for components like the transmission, differential or driveshaft but I find it difficult to work with on panels or mounting plates. It just requires too much work to be efficient on a flat panel or plate. I would have been better off getting these components powder coated or just primed and painted.

Here is the mounting plate with the components installed and wired.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59f93806c2c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405102912933.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Each POWERCELL is powered from the Mega Fuse Panel with two power feeds (the two red wires connected at the top).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59ea4828dd100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405102923809.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The larger wire at the bottom right hand side connects to the battery.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59f5aa1adc100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405102916228.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After research on the net, I ordered and installed transparent heat shrink so that the condition of the connections could be checked in case of electrical problems.

Carl

[VdubJoe]

Great looking build. Great job on the brake line hose routing. I'm sure it is but your lines are brake fluid compatible ? Regular fuel or rubber can have an issue. Looking forward to more.

Joe

[WIS89]

Carl-

Enjoying your build! I am looking forward to watching your ISIS install. I am almost certain I am going to use it on my build, so I hope to learn a lot from your build! Also, I like the transparent heat shrink. I had no idea there was such a product. It makes sense in your application, and it looks great.

Keep up the great work!

Regards,

Steve

[skullandbones]

Hi Carl,

I like your throttle pedal mod. I'll have to copy that one.

Thanks,

WEK.

[carlewms]

Great looking build. Great job on the brake line hose routing. I'm sure it is but your lines are brake fluid compatible ? Regular fuel or rubber can have an issue. Looking forward to more.

Joe

Yes, I used the lines that came with the Wilwood clutch master cylinder and the FFR upgrade Wilwood brakes.

Carl

[carlewms]

While out on travel, my new sheet metal arrived to finish the outside and inside panels for the PS foot box expansion. This time I read the templates, measured and marked times 3 to make sure I did not screw it up ... and it sort of worked.

Lessons Learned: There is clearly variations between the FFR Marks but there are also some variations between individual frames (which could occur for a variety of reasons). These include weld beads, some undocumented changes in the frame, tolerances at extremes and last but not least some changes in geometry due to the welding process.

I was using templates applicable to the Mk IV but they clearly were not exactly applicable to my Mk IV.

Here are the results in progress:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59fca59ad7100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405234037408.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The custom changes made ... in part to save ordering and waiting for another sheet of aluminum T6 6061.Instead of outside panel as called for in the templates, I modified it to have a top. After fabricating the panel per the template the mating with the top of the foot box just was not working.

I also overlapped the panels from the top down to reeducate the chances of leakage from the top of the foot box specially in the area between the body and the outside panel.

I also decided to clean up the edges of the overlapped panels so that they are smoother transitions ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59f3b03edcb00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405233724744.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I personally like the look ...

Carl

[carlewms]

I went back to the installation of the inside PS foot box panel. In order to properly fit it up I need to permanently install the "horseshoe" panel that goes over the front of the tunnel under the firewall. This became the 4th panel installed permanently on the build.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da27b3127ccef5987066652a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140407014055487.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After going back and studying the photos I took prior to disassembly of the aluminum (there is a hint here...take lots of photos before removing any panels paying close attention to the overlaps). The panel was mocked up and will require some adjustment on the front and bottom to match up with the top and back panels; this all after I return from another business trip these first few days of the coming week.

Getting some of the little stuff done, I finished drilling out, installing the grommets on and preparing the AC foot pedal pads. They fit right up on the Wilwood pedal arms. Here is the final result:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da27b3127ccef598a881e49100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140407014429603.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

All that is left to do is paint the gas pedal and install the non skid on the pedal surface. I will either order or fabricate a dead pedal to go in the expansion on the outside panel.

[2bking]

Carl, I have the same brake but it has a Northern Tool label on it. It works very well if you plan the bend sequences. I found the .040 thk 6061-T6 cracks on the bend lines without using a .016 thick pad between the aluminum and the Vee. With the pad it makes a .04 bend radius, the minimum for .040 thk 6061-T6.

I'm planning on using the ISIS wiring also. Where did you locate the master cell and did you get any of the optional wiring products they offer?

[carlewms]

King,

Thanks for the tip on the brake; I have had a few spots on bends with cracks. I have also found that I do not have the problem if I do not take the brake through its full "cycle" (I am not sure how to explain it but if I completely rotate the handle a full 360 degrees it tends to happen more).

I found that doing so actually bent the piece beyond 90 degrees. According to the manual, you can adjust this out but I have frond it a little difficult to find the sweet spot. I also have found that doing bends on sheets greater than about 18 inches takes a lot of "butt" to get it bent; meaning that it is really close to the limits if the brake.

With respect to ISIS I plan on mounting the MASTERCELL vertically above the the transmission tunnel behind an access panel. This spot allows easy access to the dash, makes it easy to check the status on the monitor and is a good spot for routing of the CAN cable (front forward the "horseshoe" and rear through the transmission tunnel).

The first photo shows the location ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58caf3f4f4200000010O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412072609170.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The second photo is of the panel I fabricated to cover the ISIS MASTERCELL and mount some other switches (heated seats, potentially AC) as well as the clock). Not true to the original but not everything will be anyway.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d1b8aeed100000010O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412072609144.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After finishing the expanded PS foot box yesterday, it looks like there would be plenty of room to mount it on a flip done mount under the top of the panel.

Carl

[carlewms]

The dogs ... who are pretty good at tracking down mice ... went crazy over the box containing the side pipes. They literally tore up the box trying to find the rodents.

Apparently the field mice set up house in my side pipes ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da31b3127ccef5801858bfbd00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140411021321441.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

After a whole lot of trimming and "futzing" around, I finally got the modification completed and on the car.

While the templates available on the forums were helpful with the initial layout, the differences in the frames made for a lot of "customization" of the panels from the templates. The sequence of installation and drilling the panels is important because of the access to them once installed to get a rivet gun in place.

After preparing the panels with professional grade undercoating and SharkHide depending on the panel, the first panel to get installed was the bottom panel.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d63c56f9200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073546389.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The panel installs easily and it was the only one that did not require extensive trim up from the templates.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58c493fce0100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073555486.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Next up was the back panel (front of the foot box). The outside was treated with SharkHide after the usual sanding and scotch padding (new phrase) and I sprayed the inside with the undercoating as I did on the DS.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58c3718ce1900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073541141.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Installed ... I installed this first since the panel for the inside of the foot box mounts to the outside of the vertical tab of this panel.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d82e92f5600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073558727.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The last panel permanently installed was the inside panel ... which also required the most trimming, etc.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d306a2f8c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073554549.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

For the connection to the foot box back panel, I decided to rivet from inside the engine compartment for a smoother look inside the compartment. For the connection to the horseshoe, I did the opposite.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58c29d04fee00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412090058269.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The rest of the panels (top, angle top and the outside panel) will be permanently installed later to make it easy to access the foot box.

As I did on the DS, I fabricated a piece to make the transition from the cockpit floor to the foot box bottom a little smoother (which should make carpeting a little easier).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da33b3127ccef58d331b6f6400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140412073947904.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/



Carl

[Gumball]

Carl,

Looking great, man. I really enjoyed the aluminum fitting and making new panels... you've done an outstanding job so far and I can tell you're having fun, too! Gotta love getting lots of use out of a new tool.

[WIS89]

Carl-

Everything is looking great! I like the piece you created between the dash and trans tunnel. I think it will be very functional, and will look pleasant. I am considering doing something similar. Did I understand you correctly that you will be putting the ISIS parts behind this piece?

I am enjoying your build.

Regards,

Steve

[DaleG]

Carl, where did you get the courtesy lamp for the under-dash panel, passenger side?

[carlewms]

Carl, where did you get the courtesy lamp for the under-dash panel, passenger side?

Dale,

These are actually LED lights from SuperBrightLEDs.com. The link to the specific light is https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-landscape-lights/led-deckstep-accent-light/404/2186/

Part Number: LPC-B-WW2 | UPC: 847781021868

I picked the "yellow" color not the white. You can also get it in chrome.

Carl

[carlewms]

Carl-

Everything is looking great! I like the piece you created between the dash and trans tunnel. I think it will be very functional, and will look pleasant. I am considering doing something similar. Did I understand you correctly that you will be putting the ISIS parts behind this piece?

I am enjoying your build.

Regards,

Steve

Steve,

I will be putting the MASTERCELL behind this piece. The rear POWERCELL is going in a box under the trunk and the front POWERCELL is going on a panel I am making to go on the x-member in the engine compartment. The MEGA FUSE BLOCK is going to be mounted next to it and all of this will be above the battery.

Front POWERCELL and Mega Fuse Block:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da24b3127ccef59f93806c2c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405102912933.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The rear POWERCELL goes in the expansion box fabricated to take advantage of the open space above the fuel tank.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da25b3127ccef59cbf1814c200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140405031942408.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[WIS89]

Thanks Carl! I am still trying to make a decision regarding ISIS.

I look forward to watching your experience with it.

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

Yesterday ... time to finish off the box going underneath the bifold hatch in the trunk.

I really did not like how I had executed the first version of the box ... too many mistakes on the side of the first one as it was my first experience using the new brake.

Here is the upgraded version...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da32b3127ccef58e2fc096e100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414012757747.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The compartment on in the upper righthand corner of the box is a compartment for the rear ISIS POWERCELL ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da32b3127ccef58fc89e772800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414012802487.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

While the ISIS components are pretty sturdy I still wanted to segregate the POWERCELL from the rest of the box to make sure I could keep that area cleaner. I will dress out the top of edges of the smaller box with some u shaped trim.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef5889a685c2e00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414094315110.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef5898142bded00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414094309083.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The learning curve on the sheet metal work has been steep at times and there is "dead" metal around the Old Goat Garage to prove it ... but is sure is fun.

I also mocked up the and drilled out the box to install below the trunk. My decision to keep the 3/4 in square tubing intact made this task a little more difficult than I anticipated (tool access reasons). If I were to do this again, I would go a head and modify the framing to make for full access to the area, ease of box fabrication and installation and clearly a much cleaner look.

The outside or underside was painted with undercoating...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da32b3127ccef58f6abcf66b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414012804937.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

After working the sheet metal stuff for most of the weekend, I closed out work in the garage getting the front ISIS POWERCELL and Mega Fuse Panel cleaned up and installed.

To fully take advantage of the ISIS system the location of the POWERCELL needs to be as close to its loads as possible and the Mega Fuse Panel needs to be as close to the battery as feasible.

The solution for the roadster was to install a panel mounted above the battery (I used the excellent Breeze kit to mount the battery low on the crossmember). The front POWERCELL mounted on the DS and the Mega Fuse Panel mounted on the PS of the panel.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da32b3127ccef58ffc7df6e100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414012806952.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Electrically speaking, the battery is connected to the Mega Fuse Panel via the large cable shown at the bottom of the photo. The lower connections on the Mega Fuse Panel are all bussed together. The upper connections then feed the POWERCELLs through two 60A cables (the red ones in the upper left quarter of the photo). This is the "hot" side of the circuit to the POWERCELL.

How is this different from a conventional wiring harness? The biggest difference (from an installation perspective) is avoiding running power from the battery to the fuse panel in the DS foot box that is then routed via longer multiple "hot" wires back to the loads in the front of the car. It also avoids having a wiring "mess" in the foot box and dash where space is at a premium. Additionally, the power run to the POWERCELL is protected with the mega fuses which is not the case in a conventional wiring harness where there is no protection between the battery and the fuse panel (at least in the RF harness provided by FFR).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da35b3127ccef588bbb19d4f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140414111728748.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[carlewms]

The last two days was spent mostly planning the routing for the wiring system ...

With the POWERCELLs and MASTERCELL locations set, getting the routing of the CAN cable between the MASTERCELL and the POWERCELLs was laid out to avoid heat sources and moving or rotating objects.

Simple tools for this one ... some automotive wire to use as a template and some blue painter's tape.

MASTERCELL to Front POWERCELL

The path from the MASTERCELL to the front POWERCELL is across the 2x2 frame member to DS and forward left of the Wilwood master cylinders through the hole normally used for the clutch cable in the front panel of the DS foot box. Here are some photos showing this routing ...

The MASTERCELL will be centerline under a panel above the trunk so the CAN cable will route over to the DS from this location.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da34b3127ccef58b62dc248600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140415121241931.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

then forward to the left of the Wilwood pedal box ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da34b3127ccef58b599f644000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140415121235684.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Exiting the foot box through the clutch cable opening ... note that when I have all the wires that will be using this path, I will bundle them and use a rubber grommet wherever wiring penetrates sheet metal.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da34b3127ccef58a638fc53100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140415121235901.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I decided to use the upper 3/4 in square tube to get the wiring as far away as possible from the headers and to make access easier when the body is on the car.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da34b3127ccef58a514944de00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140415123335471.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I will not be using the FFR hood hinges so these mounting points are available as a "turning point" for the wiring.

Please provide any feedback or suggestions ...

Next post will show the route to the rear POWERCELL.

Carl

[carlewms]

I previously posted the route from the MASTERCELL to the front POWERCELL in the ISIS installation ...

Here is the route from the MASTERCELL to the rear POWERCELL.

(For illustrative purposes the wire is shown on the top of the transmission tunnel but will be on the bottom of the upper 3/4 square tube in the installation).

The MASTERCELL will be below the dash on top of the transmission tunnel inside a removable panel.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b6aa5b354e00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140417213704358.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/.

The CAN cable from the MASTERCELL and the two power cables from the battery will go down the transmission tunnel DS.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b66664b42700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140417213707719.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Then up an over the differential ... through holes cut in the support frame for the upper trunk.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b7403b942700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140417213715756.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Grommets are mounted in all holes to prevent any chaffing in the case of the frame above or to make a watertight connection through the to the new box fabricated to hold the rear POWERCELL below.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da36b3127ccef5b6482e354a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140417213715453.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Carl

[carlewms]

In the ISIS system, power is delivered via the two POWERCELLs to the loads. With the POWERCELLs located closer to the loads, the number the length of the circuit wiring is reduced. The diagram below illustrates the system setup:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da39b3127ccef5b0d9823a3200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419021700112.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Think of the POWERCELL as a smart fuse and power distribution box

Here is a typical sequence...utilizing the headlights as an example.

1. Pull the Headlight Switch to turn on the headlights;
2. This CLOSES the circuit to the MASTERCELL;
3. The MASTERCELL sends a data signal to the front POWERCELL. The data package tells the POWERCELL:
- What load to energize
- How to apply power to the load

In ISIS talk it is called "personality" and in this particular case power is slowly applied in a soft start to increase the life of an incandescent type headlight; and,

4. The POWERCELL then closes the power circuit to energize the headlights. This individual circuit is also fused to give the circuit and load(s) additional protection.

Carl

[carlewms]

Here are some photos of the rear POWERCELL ...

The first illustrates the connections coming and going from the POWERCELL:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da39b3127ccef5b13ec55ad200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419021737685.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Each POWERCELL has two sides (A and B) with 5 circuits which can carry up to 25 amps per circuit

Bank B - Circuits 1-5 (at the bottom of the photo)
Bank A - Circuits 5-10 (at the top of the photo)

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b25a20a35500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419072707177.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The photo below shows how the loads are run off the POWERCELL.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b39264833900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419072709052.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/.

In this case, the B side of the cell carries:

Circuit 1 - Left Hand Rear Turn Signal
Circuit 2 - Right Hand Rear Turn Signal
Circuit 3 - Open (not currently used)
Circuit 4 - Light for the Upper Trunk Breeze Storage Compartment
Circuit 5 - Power Outlets (charge phones, etc.)

Carl

[carlewms]

The folks at ISIS provide an ISIS Systems Assignment matrix to show how the systems gets connected functionally equivalent to a wiring diagram.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b2fcb3a39500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419092617884.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Based on their matrix, I created one specific to my application and organized so that I could easily track the MASTERCELL inputs and associated wire colors/input numbers and the outputs of the POWERCELL(s) and the wire colors/output numbers.

This is a planning tool and will change as I learn more but it is the starting point for right now.

As soon as I can get it down in size to load as a pdf I will post it.

Carl

[WIS89]

Carl-

Thanks for all the details on the ISIS system. I am curious if you feel that the system is saving you any time on the electrical installation, or if it is making it any easier, relative to what would need to be done without the system. It does appear fairly straightforward once you map-out the various circuits.

Great progress, and thanks for sharing!

Regards,

Steve

[VdubJoe]

Also in regards to the ISIS system. If anything happens to the circuit board or power cell there is no easy get around other than a new unit correct ?
Verse's a conv. system of normal relays and fuses.
Just wondering as iv been looking at it and its interesting. But $$$$
Alum work looks great. Might have to pick up one of those brakes.

Joe

[carlewms]

Steve,

As I work with it more ... the happier I am that am using it even when it costs more than the traditional RF harness provided with the kit ... granted that part of this is somewhat related to pure curiosity.

With respect to time savings ... that is a little more difficult for me to answer since this is my first effort at wiring a car of any sorts. So here is my IHOP answer (meaning I am going to waffle around a bit).

My sense of it is that I have spent more time up front planning and that the installation therefore will go faster than installing a conventional wiring harness because there are few wires required to go from the cockpit area to the loads. Fewer wires also makes for easier routing. The RF harness is specifically designed and fabricated for the roadster; ISIS requires customization in that you have cut the wiring to fit, terminate it and the put it in a loom.

Another advantage I like is that circuit characteristic are built into the MASTERCELL's computer; for example with an ISIS system you virtually eliminate use of relays (except for loads greater than the 25 amp capacity of each circuit) eliminating a considerable number of connections ... points of potential failure. The only relays needed are for the fans, the heater and air conditioner (if installed).

I also think the advantages to ISIS in terms of safety, troubleshooting and maintenance far outweighs the conventional harness. For me, at least for me, even though the cost is higher, I like those advantages/characteristics.

Safety ... less higher current and or voltages running from the DS fuse panel in a conventional harness system;
Troubleshooting ... ISIS has Built in Test Equipment (BITE) which allows you to isolate a short or ground to a circuit without touching a multimeter;
Maintenance ... Less wire and connections means less maintenance; elimination of the pedal box mounted fuse panel also makes maintenance and troubleshooting a whole lot easier.

Of course the ultimate proof will be a well operating electrical system ...

Thanks,

Carl

[carlewms]

Joe,

If you are referring to replacing a POWERCELL or MASTERCELL, I would have to say yes a complete failure of either would require more than that required of a conventional harness ...

The system does have a get home mode in case of failure on the road.

The POWERCELL and MASTERCELL meet the same standards as the systems in cars built today so, at least for me, I have confidence in the reliability of these components. ISIS has also been used before in GTMs and some roadsters reliably.

Thanks for asking ...

Carl

[carlewms]

In the ISIS system the MASTERCELL takes inputs from the various switches (or sensors) and sends data commands to the POWERCELL to execute the inputs ... the difference in ISIS is that the analog input from the switch can be changed by the MASTERCELL to control the load in very specific manners (like the soft start mentioned in a previous post):

The 4 way flashers for example ...

The functions normally found in a four way flasher relay are handled by the MASTERCELL. When the 4 Way Flasher Switch is CLOSED the MASTERCELL knows to create and send the data signal that flashes all the parking lights. In an ISIS installation the only relays needed are ones where the circuit load is greater than 25 amps.

Here is a detailed photo of the MASTERCELL and inSIGHT Diagnostic Module:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b225ae624c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419132237603.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The CAN cable (Controller Area Network) sends data using a standard protocol to the POWERCELLS. The inputs at the top use a switching voltage/current of 5V/0005 amps; there are no 12V inputs or outputs on the MASTERCELL.

There is room for expansion on the plug at the bottom of the MASTERCELL.

To make it easier during installation I used painter's tape to identify the uses for the 23 input lines being used on this particular installation.

Then the wiring was segregated into five basic locations:

- Dash Switches
- Brake Light Switch (on the Wilwood Pedal Box)
- Trunk and Storage Box Switches (pin switches will used on the door to the Breeze Storage behind the seats and the trunk hatch to activate lights for these areas)
- RT Steering Wheel Stalk (The Flash to Pass and the turn signals)
- Grounds

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da38b3127ccef5b20028224000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140419131337046.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Multiple pin connectors will be used so that taking the dash or steering wheel off will be a one plug operation.

Any suggestions are more than welcome ... make this as clean and user friendly as possible.

Carl

[WIS89]

Carl-

Many thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply! I appreciate all of the information on your posts as well.

I still need to chew on the idea for my build, but I am leaning towards using the system.

Good luck as you move forward. I look forward to more updates!

Regards,

Steve



Joe,

If you are referring to replacing a POWERCELL or MASTERCELL, I would have to say yes a complete failure of either would require more than that required of a conventional harness ...

The system does have a get home mode in case of failure on the road.

The POWERCELL and MASTERCELL meet the same standards as the systems in cars built today so, at least for me, I have confidence in the reliability of these components. ISIS has also been used before in GTMs and some roadsters reliably.

Thanks for asking ...

Carl

[carlewms]

Steve,

Another point I for got on the "get home" capability... ISIS does not control ignition or fuel delivery directly.

In my case I am installing the FAST EZ EFI 2.0 system and MSD ignition. In ISIS installation when the ignition switch is "on" power is supplied to these components. In a worst case complete failure of ISIS this signal would not be present, I could jumper power to these components and hot wire the starter.

Carl

[VdubJoe]

Thanks for all the info. I was wondering if it had a limp home mode.
I am going to be using the Fast XFI and their dist. So that question is answered.

Joe

[WIS89]

Steve,

Another point I for got on the "get home" capability... ISIS does not control ignition or fuel delivery directly.

In my case I am installing the FAST EZ EFI 2.0 system and MSD ignition. In ISIS installation when the ignition switch is "on" power is supplied to these components. In a worst case complete failure of ISIS this signal would not be present, I could jumper power to these components and hot wire the starter.

Carl

Carl-

Good information again! I suppose this is really over thinking things and totally unnecessary, but I imagine that you could create your own limp home switch in the event of an ISIS failure. You could rig a switch to power up the starter, fuel pump, and EFI if required. Although, as a practical matter a cell phone and tow truck would also work. Thanks again.

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

After a few days off the build in PA, I was eager to get back in the garage and finally install "the box" that was fabricated and painted to install over the gas tank.

Before leaving on Saturday, the outside of the box was painted with undercoating with the inside receiving multiple coats of black plastisol this being more than ready to be installed permanently in the car.

One lesson learned: if you are planning the trunk expansion modification, modifying the frame to make the expansion cleaner looking is well worth consideration. Working around those two angled 3/4 inch tubes turned out to be a real PIA in terms of additional cuts, access for the drill and rivet gun. If I were to do it again I would modify the frame.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5bea5a73ea200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004302455.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5bfa1ce9fb500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004253315.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5be5dc6bf8f00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004256446.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

If you have not filled your differential to this point, now is the perfect or at least last easiest time to do it. Access from above the backside of the "pumpkin" becomes much more restricted when the trunk is covered in aluminum.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5bf6f779f6b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004250624.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5bee7863ea200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004247753.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

My Summit order arrived and along with it the thermal insulation sleeve material for the hydraulic lines between the reservoirs and the master cylinders. Scott H (CACC) recommended protecting these lines from the heat of the headers below the lines with this insulation from Summit. This is the 1 inch wide version with a Velcro attachment strip which allowed installation without removing the lines. I added the wire wrap straps to keep the ends secure.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da00b3127ccef5bfc1569f1d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422004237668.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Toward the end the day, the rear POWERCELL was installed in the trunk expansion box and the two positive leads to the Mega Fuse Panel were routed through grommets in the front of the box. I found another use for Goof Off, it makes a great lubricant for the wiring when running through the grommets. Add another 45 minutes to the ISIS installation.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b8a384d6f700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422085515605.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/.

Carl

[carlewms]

With the anticipated arrival of more electrical stuff from Delcity, I connected the wiring harness to each of the POWERCELLS and planned the routing to their respective loads. With 10 circuits on the front and 8 on the rear POWERCELL along with the shorter runs will make final installation easier. Most loads forward are less than 3 ft away. The same is true for the rear loads except for the seat heaters and the cockpit FB lights.

Front:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b92dc5f6bd00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224637427.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Rear:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b88b54d63300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224635073.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Using the tools that arrived from Summit, I removed two of the output wires from the Rear POWERCELL. The tools make it extremely easy to do and well worth their purchase.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b8ee1917e400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224710950.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Most of the time was spent getting the MASTERCELL mounted in the area above the transmission tunnel affixed to the "horseshoe". The mount, fabricated from left over panel aluminum, was just large enough to accommodate the MASTERCELL.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b96222b6e500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224720144.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The blue bushings are added to provide some resistance to vibration although not required by ISIS to be installed ... just my preference or paranoia. I have pretty much stayed with 1/4 inch - 20 hardware to attach all items keeping everything standardized as much as possible. All hardware is SS.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b870ac171e00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224715316.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The inputs from the switches on the dash (most of them), the seat warmers, pin switches for the trunk & Breeze storage compartment and the RT steering wheel hub all are wired into a connection that goes on the top position on the cell. The CAN cable attaches to the left. The grey plug without wires is installed to protection only.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b99e89370000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140423005708999.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The MASTERCELL will be hidden behind a separate removable panel to make troubleshooting and system testing easier.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da03b3127ccef5b99cb5b60d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140422224745191.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I will probably have to remove part of the flange material on the cover to accommodate the output plug on the MASTERCELL.

Carl

[carlewms]

This may be more applicable to the FFR owners, since that is what I am building:

1. How was headlight/turn signal power routed to the front lights?

2. Same question for rear lights?

3. When using braided wrap, do you still need to install grommets where the wiring passes through aluminum/metal?

4. I am planning on adding a trunk light. My thought is to put it in the trunk lid to get maximum coverage. Any examples out there?

Thanks in advance,

Carl

[carlewms]

Here is my current plan for grounds ... that is the kind you want or need to have.

I found these buss bars from DelCity which have ground connections at both ends of the bar with 6 spots to attach grounds from the loads (I anticipate actually putting more than one on a spot if need be):

http://www.delcity.net/images/photos/80500dl_primary.jpg

Here is the installation for the grounds at the rear of the car. I attached it to the rear IRS cage support:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4da04b3127ccef5a659fd5c5000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140426020005146.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After installing the bar I used 8 gauge power wire left over from the power cables to attach the buss bar at both ends to the chassis giving the circuits attached two paths to ground.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef656838c12b600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140501165326265.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef6562571121800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140501165327964.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

A little dielectric grease was applied as well

Here is the finished version with the cover installed:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef65628ed521a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140501165330391.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I then added some braided wire wrap to cover up the "red".

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db20b3127ccef6577920b31b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140501165332395.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I have ordered 3 more of the buss bars to use in the dash and front of the car.

Please let me know if you all see any issues with the plans here ...

Carl

[VdubJoe]

Looks good I just ordered some of the bussbars from them too with a bunch of other stuff, I am doing my grounds the same front and rear but I run a large ground from the front to the back buss and the frame also. Just a habit from building off-road stuff not a fan of just using the chassis as the ground.
But that's just a habit.

Joe

[carlewms]

I spent most of the day in the wiring department ...

After receiving another goody bag from DelCity which included more of the bus (or buss I am darn not sure what way it is spelled in this context), I put the front one on top of the X member. Since the X member is round I had to shave off a bit of the base to get a better fit. Here are the results ... looks like the one in the rear but with black heat shrink instead of braided wrap.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65de432c92100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504094200916.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I also upgraded to some better eyelet connectors with built in heat shrink that were of a much better quality than the "auto" store variety.

The next effort was directed at getting all the wiring run for the loads related to the front of the car ...

Headlights
Low Beams
High Beams with smaller gauge wire to the instrument panel for the high beam LED
Flash to Pass (Alternating)
Parking Lights/Instrument Panel or Gauge Lights
Turn Signals
Left Turn with smaller gauge wire to the instrument panel for the left turn LED
Right Turn with smaller gauge wire to the instrument panel of the right turn LED
Start
Ignition
Horn
Cooling Fan Override

I still have to get the connections made up at the load ends and then get everything wire braided up.

Here are some photos of the current mess ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65c857aa98d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504095735615.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The loom to go to the cockpit will actually be on the outside or below the 3/4 in square tube.

Across to the PS of the car.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d095089ad00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504095737368.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Aft to the cockpit.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d93e5895500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504095731854.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The penetration through the front panel of the DS foot box will be protected and sealed with a grommet that will go on a small cover plate for what is normally the clutch cable penetration.

Through the top of the DS foot box over the Wilwood pedal assembly

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65cd2de68aa00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504095728865.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The wire ties will be removed before the wire are bundle in the braided wire loom material.

Then across the 2 by 2 to ... the only powered wire going all the way across the dash is the power to the MSD box (to be placed in the PS foot box) which is energized when the ignition is on. Taps off this wire also provide power to the ECU in the PS foot box. The other power goes to the starter solenoid which will be on the firewall engine compartment above the transmission tunnel (on the horseshoe).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db25b3127ccef65d4fcb891500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140504095744291.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[AndyP]

Carl - nice build. I am a new forum member and just read through your whole thread. Look forward to your first start.

Andy

[carlewms]

This post is a out of order ...

The order from McMaster-Carr arrived with the high temperature wire wrap insulation to install on the wiring traversing near the DS headers/exhaust. I decided to put the 12V power in one loom and the CAN cable in a separate loom and cover both from the POWERCELL to the dash including above the DS foot box.

Part # 8994T13 High-Temperature Expandable Sleeving 1/2 in
Part # 8994T11 High-Temperature Expandable Sleeving 1/4 in

My only concern is this covering is off white/beige and will be a collector of oil and dirt. The solution is covering it with a section of standard black braided wrap.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db26b3127ccef65a94aa01b800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508001304480.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Since the multiple spade connectors also arrived I finished off the installation of the horns (McMaster-Carr Part # 72065K52 Piggyback Quick Disconnect Terminal, Fully Insulated, Expanded Barrel, 16-14 AWG).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db26b3127ccef65a2c13806d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508001256812.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The wiring of the rear POWERCELL is much simpler. With the Muti-Wire Heat-Shrink Butt Splice 16-14 AWG from McMaster-Carr (Part # 7617K13). The branches for the right side parking and brake lights used these connectors and were much quicker to install than the ones used on the forward harness. The downside is it causes quite a lump at the point of connection.

Prior to heat shrinking...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db29b3127ccef645affb2e2200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508115124158.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After heat shrinking...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db29b3127ccef64591362ef000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508115124364.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

After fooling around looking at different paths for the parking and brake light wiring I settled on the most accessible route I could find in case future repairs or modifications were needed. The loom going up the right side of the outer trunk panel, serves the license plate light and the trunk light (which will be on the trunk lid and activated off a pin switch on the hinge).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db26b3127ccef65bfea8a0f300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508001308169.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The loom going down to the left serves the brake and parking lights.

The tan wire is for the trunk light pin switch, the orange lead to the trunk light, and the yellow line is the power lead to the license plate light.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db26b3127ccef65abcf801fe00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508001315814.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The loom traverses to the DS under the lower panel of the trunk just above the jack bolts. The bolts will be replaced with shorter versions in the final assembly.

Lastly, the grounds for the rear loads were hooked up to aft ground bus.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db26b3127ccef65b61fa614600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140508011750359.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[AndyP]

Carl - what is the cost of the ISIS system versus traditional wiring?

Andy

[carlewms]

Andy,

The upfront costs for ISIS are higher by far ...

The ISIS 3 Cell System is $1,552.50 where as the Ron Francis System is $479 so it is about three times the upfront cost. I hope to recover some of the cost by selling my RF harness.

While price is always a factor, for me the advantages of the ISIS outweighed the steep difference in costs. So far in the installation, the ISIS system has far less wiring to run, the fuse box and its associated connections (and points of failure) is illuminated, the number of relays used is reduced, the Built In Test Equipment (BITE) makes troubleshooting a much easier and since the functions are programmable, the manner in which each circuit acts (called personality in ISIS speak) can be modified as needed.

For me there were business reasons as well since the system has applicability to what i do professionally.

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl,

Your build is coming along beautifully. Although I'm using the RF system, not ISIS, I really enjoy following this thread!

Keep up the great work.

[carlewms]

As noted in the previous post on the front, the power wiring to the rear POWERCELL is completed.

After further reflection, I decided to install two filament lights in the rectangular Finish Line rear lights being installed on the car. The modification of the rectangular tail lights that currently only have one bulb and a reflector will be in a different post but has also been covered in numerous forums ... nothing really new from that perspective.

This decision required adding another wire to the rear wiring harness from the POWERCELL to the two lights.

With the right tools (meaning the right crimper) I found that with a little bit of patience and care, getting the weather pack connectors was pretty easy.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67ec7f183f500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052324983.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This is the female side and when I get the mods done on the light fixture the male side will mate up to it forming a watertight connection easily disconnected to service the components or remove the body.

Borrowing the idea from other forums, I used marine grade shrink wrap to bind the end of the braid with the wires. This marine grade shrink wrap has a built in adhesive that activates when heated which really seals penetrates the braid and binds it to the wiring.

The wiring for the trunk light and the license plate light to the centerline of the rear trunk hoop is completed. I terminated it in a 3 wire weatherpack.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db01b3127ccef67d3cb53a0400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140520120140939.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The wiring setup is:

Ground: Black
Trunk Light: Orange
License Plate Light: Yellow

I need to finish up the CAN cable modifications (basically to cut out the excess wire) before wrapping up everything at the rear POWERCELL end of things.

I still have to wrap the junctions in the wire looms with self vulcanizing tape but I wan to hold off in doing so until I have every thing tested just in case the wiring needs to be changed. Right now I have used wire ties to hold the braided wire wrap at the ends.

Carl

[carlewms]

As it has evolved the wiring of the car has really falling into three distinct areas The front or engine compartment, the middle or dash and the rear or trunk.

The front POWERCELL is completely wired with the exception of connecting the power up to the Mega Fuse Kit. The harness looms are completed to the loads with the exception of the weatherpacks.

All the wiring from the POWERCELL is routed to the loads and the CAN cable is routed to the front POWERCELL. As these wires pass over the headers/exhaust piping, I first used high temperature expandable Sleeving to protect the wiring from the heat and then covered them with standard split braided wire wrap to protect the beige colored insulation and keep to the same overall appearance of having a black cover on all the wiring.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67e166642a200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052912774.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The sleeving was sourced from McMaster-Carr:

8994T13 1 Each High-temperature Expandable Sleeving, 1/2" Id, 10' Long
8994T11 1 Each High-temperature Expandable Sleeving, 1/4" Id, 10' Long

Here is a photo showing how the high temperature expandable sleeving is under the split braided wire wrap

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67e2100837700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052915306.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here is a shot of the completed installation on the front of the DS foot box

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67e5b13835900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052917780.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I used the access point normally reserved for the clutch cable to enter into the DS foot box

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67f3531223000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052330938.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

This may be over kill on the wiring protection...

I routed and installed the primary or positive wiring from the Mega Fuse Kit to the rear POWERCELL. As done on the DS the wiring is protected using high temperature expandable sleeving overlaid with the split black braided wire covering.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db00b3127ccef67e78c3423000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522052335166.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The ring connectors were crimped on the wire then clear heat shrink was used to protect the junction to produce a good solid and waterproof junction.

Carl

[2bking]

You have some well thought out ideas. I'll get my ISIS components in the next few days and am going to use some of your ideas. Keeping the heat from destroying the wiring, electronics, and tubes is challenging and we all struggle with it. Before I pull the trigger to order some of the sleeving you're using, I want to better understand what you are accomplishing with the way you are constructing the wire bundle leaving the foot box.

I don't want to be demeaning with this comment as I am trying to follow the logic from a thermal view point. Just looking at the bundle itself, the internal temperature will reach the temperature of the external covering with no internal load. The reflective covering on the brake lines works there by reflecting the radiant heat from high temperature sources thus the brake line temperature is somewhat the same as the surrounding air temperature. The black covering on the wire bundles will absorb the radiant heat thus making the temperature of the bundle higher than the surrounding air. The insulation on the wires will fail when the bundle temperature reaches the rated temperature of the insulation. Current in the wires will increase the internal bundle temperature and the high temp sleeving serves to limit the heat transfer to the surrounding air.

[carlewms]

King,

A very good set of questions ... Not demeaning at all.

Here are my thoughts...starting from the last point and working my way backwards.

I, perhaps incorrectly, do not think that there will be much heat generated in the bundle of wires going to the MASTERCELL and loads in the dash. The worst case condition for heat generation in the bundle would be at night and in the rain. Under those conditions, the gage lights would be on and the windshield wiper motor on in addition to the power going to the ECU and MSD box. While I do not have test data to back that up I don't think that will be a major heat source.

With respect to the heat transfer across the black braid wrap and fiberglass insulation:

I agree that a reflective cover like I have on the brake lines would better handle the radiant heat transfer and I may have to add it at some point. I also agree that the black will absorb more of that radiant heat.

Here is where I believe the high temperature sleeve helps...

The heat generated from the headers/exhaust transfer across the air gap and the braided black wire loom but does not transfer across the insulation enough to cause damage/failure of the wires as long as the temperature on the outside does not exceed the 1000 deg F in the spec below.

The characteristics of the high temperature expandable sleeve from the McMaster-Carr website states the sleeving offers

"Protection from temperatures up to 1000° F is combined with the ability to accommodate irregularly shaped objects. Sleeving is fiberglass and resists burning. Use to protect hose and cable located near ovens and furnaces. Temperature range is -60° to 1000° F."

In trying to determine what temperatures we could expect at the headers, I checked on line sources, and while there are many variables the highest temps at the header junction was around 708 deg F in a study on a V8 powered Silverado. I don't expect to exceed 1000 deg F at the wire loom location.

One additional data point, the RF harness uses the same routing and is not insulated.

Thanks for asking the question.

Carl

[carlewms]

Not much progress made...but lots of lessons learned!

The sad saga centers around on small piece of sheet metal about 5 by 7 inches which I have attempted to shape into a back cover and mounts for LED bulbs for the rectangular tail lights.

Part of the build process for me has been learning new skills...cold forming aluminum sheet metal parts has been one of them so I figured I would start with this relatively simple part...at least that is what I thought when I started the process.

I started with a template provided by Chris over on the ffcars.com forum. I modified the template to make it waterproof.

I fabricated a form and then planned on shaping the part around the form to create the housing. I made a form from 2 by 4 pine which I rolled over the edges to form a smooth rolled edge at the top of the part. The cold forming part of the process worked out pretty well. I used .025 in big box aluminum which made it fairly ease to hammer the metal.

Things went wrong when I tried another skill I am trying to acquire...brazing aluminum. I wanted to make a weather proof version of the housing, so I thought I could fill in the holes and seams in the housing with the aluminum brazing rod. Between my beginner's skill set and the rod I had it turned my nicely formed box into a mess. When brazing aluminum it is really easy to blow the thin aluminum right out...which I did on several occasions. The working temperature of the rod was very close to the melting point of the aluminum making getting the right amount of filler on the seams challenging. I ended up with a verrrry uneven surface. :crazy2.

After all that I decided that my cold forming and brazing skill set need mucho improvement, practice and a better rod to use (which I found online and ordered).

My second attempt was to go back to the way the template was intended to be fabricated; bend it and rivet together. I did decide to add another step; polishing the inside of the gap housing to make it more reflective. I got it all together and went to fit it on the lens housing and found the ultimate reason this part was also going on the Wall of Shame.

The housing is attached to the lens base with two nuts on two threaded studs on the base. My second attempt was just a hair too big to get the nuts on the studs. By the way I went back and checked my first masterpiece and it would not have fit either. Lesson Learned: Always check the templates and measure the real part to make sure you got up it right!

My third attempt is in progress after measuring the stud location (which clearly I should have done first). It turned out that for the studs on my lights I needed to reduce the housing size by .25 inches.

Photos to follow...

Carl

[carlewms]

Here are the photos of the items going up on the Wall of Shame ...

The first is the attempt at cold forming and brazing ...

The form is on the left ... a bit burnt from the brazing attempts. The "results" are on the right.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d837b3127ccef6343170056200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140616152517455.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The filler from the brazing is much stronger than the aluminum sheet and this was after I ground some of it off ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d837b3127ccef634f78084c100000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140616154345806.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

A couple of photos showing where the thin aluminum got hot enough to melt and blow out.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d837b3127ccef634364cc4f500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140616154345815.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d837b3127ccef6355c60659000000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140616154350923.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Lessons Learned


My "fat fingered" technique needs a lot of practice before considering again for a part that is really going on to the car;
Hand forming will require a lot of planishing and grinding to clean up the piece prior to priming and painting;
If brazing, make sure to that the filler rod melts or works at a much lower temperature than the base metal ... the stuff I bought at the big box store was too close to the melting point of the base aluminum;
Make sure to have an assortment of grinding discs for the Dremel or die grinder including some that can get in the tight corners;
Cold forming the aluminum takes a lot longer than bending and riveting ... but if I could have done it properly would have looked a lot more authentic and be more weather proof; and,
You need a boat load of patience to fabricate this way ....


Carl

[DaleG]

6. You need a boat load of patience to fabricate this way ....

So, so true.

[Gumball]

Carl - Man, I give you credit for trying that... I took the easy way out with the originals that I made and just riveted them after applying a good bead of non-silicone 3M seam sealant. I also drilled a weep hole in the bottom, in the event that some moisture makes it into the housings. Remember that these will be mounted high in the rear quarter and that the splash guards (rear elephant ears) will protect them from the majority of the spray if you drive in the rain.

Also, make sure to protect the wiring pigtails where they exit the housing and connect to the main harness.

I can't wait to see the next attempt - the second version always seems to be much better than the first! Keep at it, man, and they'll turn out great.

[carlewms]

Chris,

Thanks for the comments ... here are some preliminary photos of the final version, i.e. work in progress:

View from the rear of the fitting ... I will round off the corners before painting

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d801b3127ccef63cca940eec00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140621022134017.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Side view ... I ended up having to increase the depth of the cover to accommodate the longer LEDs

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d801b3127ccef63d7a482e2400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140621022139358.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

From the front side of the cover ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d801b3127ccef63d5b0c6ee800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140621022133533.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I still need to put in the divider between the two bulbs and the weep hole.

Carl

[WIS89]

Nice work Carl! They should work great.

Regards,

Steve

[CraigS]

Carl I just scrolled though this last page in your thread to get to the new stuff. Your work is top notch but I have just one constructive comment. Move those horns. I know you are going for a somewhat period look, but unless those horns are there on particular oldie that you are emulating, I would move em. The horns and their wires are not something you want to look at every time you open the hood. I would hang them off the lower part of the "X" frame or off some of the 3/4x3/4 tubes that support the front of the body.

[carlewms]

Craig,

Thanks for the suggestion. It would sure clean up that area a bit...

Where did you put your horns?

Carl

[CraigS]

Mine are on a corner of that big plate that caps off the front of the 4 inch tube. Mine is an older MkII so that plate may be a different shape than yours. I just tried to find a spot where they wouldn't be too visable. When you open the hood that "X" frame is right there staring at you.

[carlewms]

I spent a little time out in the garage making the second rectangular tail light cover for the roadster. This one went a little faster and looks better that the first one.

I decided to layout the entire process in consecutive posts ...

1. With all the components on hand (sheet metal, LEDs, and bulb holders), measure to make sure you have enough room for the combination of LED's and bulb holder;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4db03b3127ccef6783c2e2bba00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140522092820625.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The LEDs are slightly longer than the normal incandescent bulb;

2. After measuring, I mocked up a cardboard version to make sure everything fit;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d808b3127ccef62fe27f32e600000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140630062601743.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I took the template created by Chris on ffcars.com and added tabs to seal off the sides of the cover and I increased the height of the wall from 1.25 in to 1.75 in to accommodate the longer LED bulbs;

3. The new template was used to figure out how to do the bends and mockup;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d808b3127ccef62ec9fa52a200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140630062606923.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d808b3127ccef62ff2e5327400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140630062606107.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Carl

[carlewms]

4. The measurements were then transferred to the .025 in aluminum sheet and the four main bends were scribed to make bending easier;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d923b3127ccef6d1f2ad03aa00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140702110917846.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

5. Using a hand shear, all the cuts were made;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d923b3127ccef6d0ee82a2f700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140702111133892.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

After making the cuts and the associated bends I realized that this was an area were being more exact can be crucial to the outcome. Since these are hidden under undercoating and inside the fender, it is not worth redoing again.

6. Bending the cover: First the long sides were bent on the brake, then the tabs, and lastly the short sides;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d923b3127ccef6d0d250a23b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140702111134329.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

7. All the tabs were riveted with 1/8 in aluminum rivets and the holes for the bulb holders were drilled with a step bit;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d923b3127ccef6d1ddec436400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140702111812492.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

8. The bulb holders were then riveted on one side and clekoed on the other prior to painting with rubberized undercoating;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d808b3127ccef62effc0d3b300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140630062555241.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I removed the wires from the plugs and inserted paper plug to keep the coating material out of the holders;

9. After spraying with two coats, the cleckos were removed and this will give me a clean spot to install the grounds;

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d808b3127ccef62f022d32c400000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140630062601187.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

10. The ground connection is riveted on to the base and the weather pack connection installed.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d923b3127ccef6d1208203ec00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140702113537630.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I will touch up the rubberized coating when I finally get them installed on the body ...

Carl

[MPTech]

Carl, your lights look great! One piece of advice, cut the side tabs down as much as possible. One side will press against the inside of the fender curve and the other side will press against the trunk aluminum panel. I cut mine down before install, it was a tighter fit once everything was permanent and after applying a couple coats of truck-bed liner, it got even tighter. Just FYI.

Here's my install & setup, for any further help.
Installed my new rectangular / LED tail lights (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/302030-installed-my-new-rectangular-led-tail-lights.html)

Also, I'm trying to figure out a way to improve the lighting (I really didn't think this would be a problem, but several fellow club members have pointed out that my brake lights are difficult to see!).
I installed (4) "1157-PCB-x36: 36-LED 1157 PCB Lamp 1157-PCB-R36-WV: Red 100 Degree" from www.superbrightleds.com.
They are VERY bright outside of the lens, but I think the rectangular lens significantly restricts them and part of the lens is really designed to be a reflector more than a lens.
They said they are hard to see in the sunlight.

Just be aware that it may be an issue. Mine looked plenty bright in the garage and at night, but more than a couple guys have told me they are difficult to see in bright sunlight. This has me concerned and I'm trying to identify and solution.

[carlewms]

MPTech,

Thanks for the comments and update. Since I am using a different bulb with a reflector it might make a difference but I will be sure to check to see and will post some photos in the sunlight.

Carl

[Gumball]

Carl,

Great job on improving the design of the housings... I like the rubberized undercoating, too, and will add that to mine before final installation.

As for the brightness issue - that's been a complaint since these lights were in production. My brother has a late '50s MGA with a similar light design on the rear end of the car and he still occasionally gets comments from other motorists that his lights are difficult to see.

While I agree the brighter the better, I think some of it is that we, as drivers, have become accustomed to bright lights, so the old-style single bulbs don't catch our attention as much during the day.

Great job so far - looking forward to more updates.

[WIS89]

Carl-

Really nice improvement over the first design. I really like the idea of LEDs where practical for all the same reasons you have already discussed.

I bet when you get finished that doing a side-by-side comparison to another non-LED car, it will be a big difference, and worth all the extra work!

Very nice job. Thanks for sharing your progress!

Regards,

Steve

[carlewms]

It's been a while since a post...but then it's been a while since I've gotten back into the garage.

I have decided to add a shallow glove box to the SC dash and am planning on an installation similar to MPTech and CCsrC postings.

In looking at all the photos I have found it difficult to tell if the cover sits flush or proud of the dash itself.

Please help me out here and post a few photos of the fit up against the dash.

Carl

[carlewms]

Its been a while since I have updated the thread ... been busy starting an new company (:crazy2 at the age of 61 to do so but ...)

After deciding to go with the SC version of the dash and cutting most of the holes for the instruments and switches, I finished up the last few holes (slightly oversized to accommodate the leather).

I wanted to add a glove box to the dash ... and, like other things on my build ... I just could not go out and buy a glove box and just use it. Several vendors offer glove boxes for FFR but nooooo I just had to build my own. Thanks to those on here and the other forum for all the threads on this subject.

With the template from others over on the FFR forums (which I expanded slightly) I cut out the cover from .04 in T6-6061 aluminum panel (the same as the FFR supplied dash).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d932b3127ccef6ced3f1330a00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140714022806516.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I used this as a template to cut out the dash ... here is the full dash laying atop the leather purchased to cover the dash.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d938b3127ccef6f31b1d663800000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140719213235415.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

I purchased the hide online from www.leatherhidesonline.com after getting some samples to match up the leather to my FFR seats. The leather will also be used on the door cards and potentially on the transmission tunnel top.

After cutting the dash for all the switches and instrumentation, cutting the large hole for the glove compartment was a bit disconcerting.

I tackled the door next but after a couple of more items were created to go on the Olde Goat's Garage Wall of Shame, i decided to regroup and focus on the compartment itself. I want a shallow compartment because of the heater or potential air-conditioning installation. Here is the template I prepared ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d903b3127ccef6f92fb0d25d00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140722085643695.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

Here is the template "installed" on the dash ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d903b3127ccef6f99bc5534200000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140722085650614.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

The back or front of the comportment was cut out of .04 in T6 6061 aluminum and then I used a .02 in thick aluminum to create the walls of the box. ...

Front view:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d903b3127ccef6f8fa6ab23900000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140722093129859.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Back view:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d903b3127ccef6f84587f21300000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140722093722810.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I found some countersunk rivets from McMaster Carr (Part Nr: 97447A210, Countersunk, 1/8" Diameter, .092"-.125" Material Thickness" that I will use to attach the box to the dash and assemble the box so that the front of the dash and the inside of the box remain smooth.

Have a Great Day!

Carl

[2bking]

I like the squared off bottom for extra room. That's an idea I haven't seen before. Is that alodine on your aluminum? If so, are you doing that at home?

[carlewms]

King,

No alodine...just dirt:o.

I will cover the inside with leather and treat the outside with SharkHide.

Carl

[carlewms]

It has been a while since I have updated the build thread ... because it has been a while since I have really felt like I had made some progress.

With the wiring done in the front and the rear of the car I needed to tackle the dash next but to get the wiring done I needed to get the glove box finished and the dash covered ready to mount the gauges and switches.

The glove box door turned out to be difficult for me at least ... I had a lot of trouble getting the hinge system lined up correctly. After getting the configuration needed I installed the glove box using flush mounted rivets.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d633b3127ccef68c484a6c0e00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140812081103424.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d633b3127ccef68cac6a6c5c00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140812081102585.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d633b3127ccef68d26f8cdf700000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140812081106679.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I initially planned to just cover the dash with just the leather but after one false start (where I managed to really screw up a nice piece of leather), I decided to add some felt under the leather. Should have listened to the advice of those here ...

Here is the end result ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d727b3127ccef758fa031a9400000040O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140906124643552.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Close up of the important end of the dash ...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d727b3127ccef7592ad8bb5b00000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140906124749635.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

If all goes well tomorrow I will get the wiring done ...

Carl

[2bking]

Carl, what did you do with the unused wires from the ISIS master cell?

[jharris]

Carl, what did you do with the unused wires from the ISIS master cell?

Carl,

The unused input wires going to the MASTERCELL connector are really easy to remove. Take a look at the front of the connector, the part that plugs into the MASTERCELL. There is a plastic retainer on the front. The A connector is clear. The B connector is grey/green. On the narrow side of the retainer, you can see a white plastic finger that holds it in place. Gently push on these fingers and the retainer will pop off.

The grey strain relief is held closed by 4 plastic tabs. Use a small screwdriver to gently pop these up and open the strain relief.

From there, you will see that the terminal at the end of each MASTERCELL input wire is held in place by a white finger under the area where the retainer was. Use that same small screwdriver to gently pry up on the finger. This will release the terminal and you can pull the wire out from the back of the connector.

When you're done, snap the retainer back onto the front of the connector and close the grey strain relief.

Jay

[jharris]

Thanks for all the info. I was wondering if it had a limp home mode.
I am going to be using the Fast XFI and their dist. So that question is answered.

Joe

Guys,

There is actually a "limp home" mode built into the ISIS System. Under the cover of the POWERCELLs, you will see a set of pins labeled Over-Ride Headers. These bypass all of the electronics on the POWERCELL board and give you a way to turn on the outputs in case of a catastrophic event like a damaged CAN cable. You take the address header jumpers and put them on these over-ride headers to turn on your mission critical outputs like lighting, ignition and starter solenoid.

Jay

[carlewms]

Jay,

Thanks for the inputs. Right now I am in the middle of wiring the dash...

Carl

[2bking]

Jay,
So....... If you remove the unused wires and decide to add a circuit back later, is there a schematic that shows pin numbers and wire color codes?

[jharris]

Yes, there is a diagram on our website that shows which cavities on the input connector correlate to which inputs.

You can easily put the wires back into the connector if you need to.

Jay

[carlewms]

The dash wiring is coming together at last...but something I need to confirm:

Wiring of the red "ignition" light and a one wire alternator: Research on the forums seems to suggest that the lamp is wired:

- Red or Positive Wire: Switched or Ignition on ignition switch
- Black or Ground Wire: Connect to Alternator one of two female spade connections under a black rubber cover

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d736b3127ccef7769dcd8bf500000030O09AaOGbRo2bA9 vPhg/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00006064438420140917195803009.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

The way it supposedly works is the ground is broken at the alternator when it is working breaking the circuit tuning the light off.

Can someone confirm please?

Thanks,

Carl