More progress made on the body : )

[The Stig]

9/25/2010

My wife and I made a quick run up to Greensboro to visit Whitby Motorcars. The Hood, Doors, and Hatch are "On the car and Swinging" as Jeff says.

It was good to see that some progress has been made. Everything lines up well, and the Gaps look good.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Build%20Log%20for%20The%20Stig/DSC_0036.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Build%20Log%20for%20The%20Stig/DSC_0037.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Build%20Log%20for%20The%20Stig/DSC_0038.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Build%20Log%20for%20The%20Stig/DSC_0040.jpg

[The Stig]

9/25/2010

I am happy with the hood alignment, and the gaps in the sections where the hood and body meet, behind the wheels. Very neat and clean.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Body007.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/Body007.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Body009.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/Body009.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Body005.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/Body005.jpg.html)

[The Stig]

9/29/2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Borden http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2332600#post2332600)
Congrats man... Its looking really good!! http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif No doubt Jeff will take good care of you!

David

Thanks Dave.

I'm really not worried whether or not it'll turn out well. I can look around the shop at any time and see that I'll be happy with the results. Right now this has become a re-learning experience for me. I am learning how to TRY to controll my patience. I used to have tons of it, before Allan let me drive his GTM. Now I'm spoiled for anything else... http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/smilies/shifty.gif

[The Stig]

1/31/2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Mangrum http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2418947#post2418947)
Your a tease!

LOL!!! Sorry Buddy. Just sharing info as I get it. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/smilies/shifty.gif Yep! I subscribe to the "trickle-up" theory. So I'll send the sentiment to Jeff.

I'm in Connecticut this week. So Imagine how hard it is to hear how great your car looks, knowing that you can't drive over to take a look. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/images/smilies/huh.gif
(Not to mention that I'm a little worried about getting stuck here due to the Snow storm that's coming through).

[The Stig]

Jeff is coming today to pick up the Chassis to take it back to his shop, and mount the body, as well as a short list of things that I am going to ask them to do...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0147.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSCN0147.jpg.html)

He sent a couple of pictures of the paint. As I understand, the paint has not been cut and buffed.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0022-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0022-1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0021-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0021-1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0019-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0019-1.jpg.html)

[VD2021]

The Stig,
Just beautiful......... Can't wait to see it on the frame with everything mounted....

R/s
Vidal

[The Stig]

The Stig,
Just beautiful......... Can't wait to see it on the frame with everything mounted....

R/s
Vidal

Thanks Buddy! I can't wait either!

[mmaragos]

Sweet! Beautiful paint. You are going to have one awesome car!

[The Stig]

Sweet! Beautiful paint. You are going to have one awesome car!

Thank you! I've always loved midnight blue paint on a sleek car. I've seen Jeff's work on quite a few cars, and knew that he would do a great job with it. He brought the rear wing (The one that Shane Vacek sells), and all I can say is that the pictures obviously don't do it justice.

I was wrong about the cut/buff. The hood that you see in the pictures above, has had the first buff. The Body hasn't. That's still being done.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0017-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0017-1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0014-3.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0014-3.jpg.html)

[Jeff Collins]

Thanks for letting us be a part of your build. Thanks for all of the hospitality last night too. It is always good to see ya'll.
We were talking about hillbilly dialect last so I just had to say ya'll.

[The Stig]

Thanks for letting us be a part of your build. Thanks for all of the hospitality last night too. It is always good to see ya'll.
We were talking about hillbilly dialect last so I just had to say ya'll.

LOL! I say ya'll so much that I wouldn't have even notice had you not mentioned the Hillbilly Dialect thing from last night.

[Steven K]

Boy, that looks great.

[riptide motorsport]

Beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[c6_rob]

drooling

[The Stig]

Beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


drooling

Thanks Guys. The good comments are really appreciated.

[fact5racer]

Hey Stig, still meeting me and the gang Tomorrow night? With $14.00 top shelf pitchers of marqueritas better bring a designated driver!

[The Stig]

Hey Stig, still meeting me and the gang Tomorrow night? With $14.00 top shelf pitchers of marqueritas better bring a designated driver!

We'll be there.

[The Stig]

Saw the body today.

The pictures are pretty clear, and they look nice.

We had dinner with Gary Cheney, Sasha, and a few of his Moto-x buddies last night. Had Great Food, Great Margaritas, and a Great time!

[The Stig]

Sanded. Cut. Buffed.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0038.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0038.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0036-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0036-1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0035-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0035-1.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0034-1.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/jmichaelbaskin/media/DSC_0034-1.jpg.html)

[GTM1]

Mike
Just gorgeous.
Did you get your Kooks ceramic coated?
Bet you cannot wait.
Bob

[The Stig]

Hi Bob. Thanks! And yes, I had the entire exhaust system ceramic coated inside and out; (Headers, Cats, and Cross Pipe). I am hoping that it will cut down some of the engine bay heat.

[PhyrraM]

Paint looks great! Looking forward to seeing the final assembly.

[Jeff Collins]

Great to see you yesterday, Rick said to tell you hello. Busy day in the shop today, lots of folks came by, a young Marine wanting a GTM and a former roadster owner ready to move on to a a 33. Rick picked up some parts and checked out your build, then the Mustang club came by. Good day all around :)

[The Stig]

Great to see you yesterday, Rick said to tell you hello. Busy day in the shop today, lots of folks came by, a young Marine wanting a GTM and a former roadster owner ready to move on to a a 33. Rick picked up some parts and checked out your build, then the Mustang club came by. Good day all around :)

I hope they enjoyed seeing it.

[Rick Williams]

Mike...As Jeff said, I was there today picking up some parts but I also wanted to see your build. Seeing an assembled GTM before the body goes on is worth a thousand pictures. My hat's off to you for a quality build. The body work and paint that Whitby did is awesome too. The color is great. It exudes understated aggressiveness if that makes sense.

Jeff...I'm guessing that my $5 is safe. You ran out of time before you had a chance to put that evaporator in the Mustang didn't you? Either that or you got it in but didn't get home until about 10:00 at night. You know what they say about the best laid plans :).

[The Stig]

Mike... Seeing an assembled GTM before the body goes on is worth a thousand pictures. My hat's off to you for a quality build. The body work and paint that Whitby did is awesome too. The color is great. It exudes understated aggressiveness if that makes sense.

Thanks Rick.

I really appreciate your comments about the the Chassis. And actually, "Understated Aggressiveness" is exactly what my goal has been for this car since I decided to build it. So for you to say that really makes me feel that I'm on the right track.

I can't wait to see it mounted to the chassis.

[Jeff Collins]

I'll have to buy you a burger at the Autofair Rick. I think you can still get a burger there for 5.00. With all the company Saturday I didn't finish the Mustang. The truth is it was 75 degrees and the ACC tournament was in town so the Mustang never really had a chance. Thanks for the kind words guys we really do enjoy what we get to do.

[dreabrown]

I suspected that when I saw the color that was meant for the GTM, I would know it - Indigo Ink Pearl. That looks amazing. Nice choice and great looking build. What's your price tag on that job from Whitby's? Offline PM if you prefer. Thanks for showing it off.

[The Stig]

I suspected that when I saw the color that was meant for the GTM, I would know it - Indigo Ink Pearl. That looks amazing. Nice choice and great looking build. What's your price tag on that job from Whitby's? Offline PM if you prefer. Thanks for showing it off.

Hi Dreabrown,

I can tell you what I was quoted for the work that Jeff & the guys at Whitby's are doing for me, but I'm not sure whether or not it would apply directly to another GTM, unless you're doing a Gen-I GTM, and he is doing ALL body and paint. I've also asked Jeff to do a list of other things for me as well, which will bump the price up a bit.

I can tell you that to have the body of a GTM worked and painted costs considerably more than any of the other Factory Five bodies. I'm not sure how the new Gen II body will translate into paint & bodywork $$ yet. It's supposed to be easier to work out, resulting lower costs, but only time will tell.

My suggestion is that you give them a call, and let them know what you're planning.

(PM Sent).

[cudd33]

Is this the one they had at Autofair in Charlotte

[The Stig]

Is this the one they had at Autofair in Charlotte

LOL! Not yet. The pictures that you see here were taken last week. I would love for it to be shown at the Autofair this year, but I'm not sure if it can be ready in time.

Jeff built a car for a customer in California, that was very similar.

[VD2021]

The Stig,
Just beautiful......... Can't wait to see it on the frame with everything mounted....

R/s
Vidal

Stig,
I was taking another look at the paint. It almost looks good enough to eat....Or maybe I'm just hungry...

[The Stig]

Stig,
I was taking another look at the paint. It almost looks good enough to eat....Or maybe I'm just hungry...

LOL!!! Thanks Vidal! I appreciate it.

I find myself coming back to this thread all the time, just to look at it. I'm pretty pumped about it.

[Jeff Collins]

Speaking of good enough to eat we had some spaghetti pictures of Stig's car yesterday, but it looks better today,

[The Stig]

Speaking of good enough to eat we had some spaghetti pictures of Stig's car yesterday, but it looks better today,

Yes you did!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous%20GTM%20Pictures/imagejpeg952952.jpg

[VD2021]

Speaking of good enough to eat we had some spaghetti pictures of Stig's car yesterday, but it looks better today,


Yes you did!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous%20GTM%20Pictures/imagejpeg952952.jpg

That's just a sign of progress.

Jeff,
On my last visit up north(NC) I drove by your shop in hopes that you were open. My Mother-in-law lives there and we're there every summer. Maybe this year I'll make it by while you're open.

[The Stig]

I think Jeff likes the new Carbon Fiber Engine Cover...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous%20GTM%20Pictures/DSC_0193.jpg

[The Stig]

Ouch!!!

I just went ahead and bought the Gen 1 Splitter and Side Rocker Extensions for the GTM.

$900.00 stings a bit... I kept waiting to see if they would have another discount on them, but time is running out and I had to open the wallet. :cool:

I guess I'll be loving them next week after the "sticker shock" wears off.

[VD2021]

Ouch!!!

I just went ahead and bought the Gen 1 Splitter and Side Rocker Extensions for the GTM.

$900.00 stings a bit... I kept waiting to see if they would have another discount on them, but time is running out and I had to open the wallet. :cool:

I guess I'll be loving them next week after the "sticker shock" wears off.

Yeah. That's how I felt when I initially called to get a Gen1 Diffuser, but Patti worked a good price for me.

Splitters/Rockers.... I'd rather have an update on your GTM......What's the latest?

[The Stig]

Yeah. That's how I felt when I initially called to get a Gen1 Diffuser, but patti worked a good price for me.

Splitters/Rockers.... I'd rather have an update on your GTM......What's the latest?

I guess I should have talked to Patti. I Spoke to Brian, and he wasn't interested in talking about a price reduction.

Update on the car:

I am driving up to Greensboro in about an hour. I have to take some parts to Jeff.

He had mentioned (last week) that he thought the body would be on the car this week. That'd be pretty cool to see.

If so, I'll take some pictures and post.

It's coming along though.

[sasha]

Hey Mike!
T'was nice to have met ya and those margaritas.. Just wondering though, can you give some details/pictures of this? Or is it some top secret adamantium alloy production...


Jeff and his guys spent a bit of time fabricating some very nice bracing that makes the rear of the car much more solid, and gives it an unbelievable amount of strength. I pushed down pretty hard on the rear fenders, and there was absolutely no flex in the body. The suspension sank down a fraction of an inch, but the fiberglass was solid.

[The Stig]

Hey Mike!
T'was nice to have met ya and those margaritas.. Just wondering though, can you give some details/pictures of this? Or is it some top secret adamantium alloy production...

Hi Sasha. Pam & I had a great time as well. Hope to meet up again soon. Maybe at the open House!

Once I get the car back, I'll take a couple of pictures and post them. It's a nice looking solution.

Take care.

[The Stig]

Yeah. That's how I felt when I initially called to get a Gen1 Diffuser, but Patti worked a good price for me.

Splitters/Rockers.... I'd rather have an update on your GTM......What's the latest?

Still waiting on the "RamLift Pro" Hydraulic Lift Kit for the front Suspension. Also waiting on a couple of backordered parts for the engine. Wiring is almost finished. It's true, what they say... There is never really a scheduled date when things will be done on a car.

I got the camera out to take a couple of pictures of the progress, only to find that the battery was dead. My wife had another digital camera, and asked if I wanted to use it, but the Moment had passed... LOL. :cool:

[The Stig]

The Ramlift Pro Kit finally arrived. The inside diameter is just shy of fitting over the KONI coil-over sleeve. They are made for true coil-over shock bodies. John @ Whitby's opened them up on the lathe, to allow them to fit over the sleeve. A leak at the thermostat housing on the water pump appears to have "fixed" itself. Well, at least 99% fixed from what I understand...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00009-20110616-1626.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00028-20110616-1634.jpg

Waiting on my third MAS airflow sensor. I have had a hell of a time finding a MAF sensor that mounts at the Throttle Body, AND has the correct "female" connector for the "male" pug on my GMPP harness for the LS2. We'll see if the "Third time really is the Charm". If so, there should be a lot of noise coming from the exhaust soon.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00015-20110616-1629.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00013-20110616-1628.jpg



Pictures and, hopefully, First Start video to follow.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00008-20110616-1626.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00042-20110616-1640.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00041-20110616-1639.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00027-20110616-1634.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00026-20110616-1634.jpg

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00040-20110616-1639.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00038-20110616-1638.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00035-20110616-1637.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00033-20110616-1637.jpg

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00032-20110616-1636.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00030-20110616-1635.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00029-20110616-1635.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00024-20110616-1632.jpg

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00023-20110616-1632.jpg



http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00020-20110616-1631.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00019-20110616-1631.jpg

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00018-20110616-1630.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00017-20110616-1630.jpg

Above: Tilton Pump for the Transaxle Oil Cooler. G50-01 (5spd) with taller 4th & 5th gears. I just thought that it would be a nice bit of "insurance" to try and keep the heat down in the gear box. Also Lower temps radiating from the gear box means somewhat lower temps in the engine bay. Below: Transaxle Oil Cooler, mounted and ready to go.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00016-20110616-1629-1.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00014-20110616-1628.jpg

This will give an idea of where / how the trans oil cooler components are mounted. You can't see it in this picture, but the the cooler actually has an electric fan that will be activated by thermostat, which will force air through. This also allows it's placement to be pretty much where-ever you can make it fit. In this case we opted for the rear of the transaxle mount (frame). It'll be just above the diffuser louvers, so there should be good air flow as the car is moving as well.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00012-20110616-1628.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00011-20110616-1627.jpg

[VD2021]

Stig,
I noticed the extention in front of the HVAC Fan. I have my fan mounted right now with out it. Should I add it back when I put iot in after the carpet?

[Texan_GTM]

Looks Great! About how hard is it to build a GTM? Do you think that it would be possible to do after doing the Build School?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Stig,
I noticed the extention in front of the HVAC Fan. I have my fan mounted right now with out it. Should I add it back when I put iot in after the carpet?

It is intended to be installed without the extension.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/IMG00033-20110616-1637.jpg



Stig,
I noticed the extention in front of the HVAC Fan. I have my fan mounted right now with out it. Should I add it back when I put iot in after the carpet?

Hi Vidal,

Sorry for the delay. Pam & I were out of town for a couple of days watching my grandson play baseball in his first "All-Star" tournament. That was fun to see.

Regarding the GTM:
When I sent the chassis with Jeff, back to the Whitby shop, the HVAC still hadn't been finished. I had it disassembled with the tunnel panels removed, so the heater and A/C lines could be run. When they finished the lines, and ran the wiring through the tunnel, they re-assembled it, (apparently using the extension for the plenum mount). I hadn't even noticed it, until you pointed it out.

I would imagine that foot room won"t be an issue on the passenger side, since my wife is every bit of 5 feet tall. :)

I think that we'll be making some cool noise with that engine pretty soon. I got the electronic accelerator cable extension and the new MAF Sensor that I've been waiting for. So there's not much else holding it back.

That'll be a nice milestone to get past. So Stay Tuned!

[The Stig]

Looks Great! About how hard is it to build a GTM? Do you think that it would be possible to do after doing the Build School?

Hi Texan,

Thanks for the compliment. Factory Five makes it considerably easier to build these cars, by supplying the kit in "complete" and/or "donor" forms. Dave Smith states that if you do not have the expertise to build a car from scratch, then you should really ask yourself whether or not this is something that you should be spending your money on. And you should answer yourself honestly.

I've worked on my cars for quite some time, and I understand how the components work with each other. So I guess it helped me to "visualize" the process of how this all goes together. Now with that said, there were many parts of this build that I felt comfortable doing myself. And then there were things that I've never done before, and didn't feel that this was where I needed to guess at it. For me, those areas are wiring and bodywork. So, I was able to let Jeff Collins of Whitby Motorcars extend his expertise to make my car as good as it can be.

I would never be the person to tell anyone that they shouldn't build a factory five car. In my oppinion, this is all about the amount of confidence you have in yourself, and knowing where your capabilities start and where they should end. In other words, know when to ask for help.

But I guess if I were to offer any suggestions, they would be:

- Don't bite into this, unless you can afford to build it out of pocket. These cars (GTMs) are a bit expensive to build. I am well into the $70k range on mine, and I still have another 15k scheduled for audio, and custom interior. If this wasn't something that I could do a little at the time, and pay for as I go along, I would have never started the process.

- Many people say that if you've never built a car before, you should probably start with the cobra (Roadster). Now that I am almost finished with my car, I can see the merrit in that. I would have finished the car about a year ago, and at less than half the cost of my GTM. I would have had a very cool car to drive around. And it would have given me a chance to learn more of the skills needed to launch into the GTM build. So I guess I'm doing this backwards, since I'm planning to build an MK4 for my wife when I finish the GTM.

- Plan your build carefully. Know what you're getting into. Know which parts you can do, and what needs to be done by the pros. Know what the pros will charge you to do the items that you you send to them. Remember that you get what you pay for.

- Above all else, Don't be afraid to ask as many questions as you need in order to make your decisions, (as you plan your build, and as you build your car).

If you decide to jump in, enjoy the ride, and Good Luck!

[LS MAN]

Cars lookin great Stig!! Glad you guys are making progress. Good to see you & Jeff got the ram lifts to work on the Konis.

[The Stig]

Cars lookin great Stig!! Glad you guys are making progress. Good to see you & Jeff got the ram lifts to work on the Konis.

Hi Ted. Thanks for the props! John (Whitby's) opened up the inside diameter of the lifts so they would fit over the KONI coil over sleeves. 1/16". I'm still getting the Penke's to replace the KONI's, but now I don't have to be in such a rush to do it. I'm trying to use your "Suspension Set-Up" thread to come up with real numbers to Dial In my shocks/suspension.

I really appreciate the help that you and Ron are giving the rest of us. Between you guys and David Borden, you're helping me and the rest of us understand how the smallest changes can have such huge effects on the way these cars handle.

[Texan_GTM]

Yeah, the only parts that I am worried about are the bodywork and wiring.... I'm about to turn 15, and this could be a fun project for my dad and I before colledge... Anyone have a GTM in Texas
near Dallas that I can take a look at?:)

[RumRunner]

Yeah, the only parts that I am worried about are the bodywork and wiring.... I'm about to turn 15, and this could be a fun project for my dad and I before colledge... Anyone have a GTM in Texas
near Dallas that I can take a look at?:)

Texan,

I'd encourage you to go to the build school with your father. There are many nuggets of wisdom to be had there, and building the roadster in the class really does give you a feel for the entire process of building the GTM. I attended the class before I began building my GTM, and many father/son teams were there. And believe me, you should be worried about more than the bodywork and wiring. Nothing that care and attention to detail and money and welding skills can't overcome, mind you, but probably considerably more challenging than you might imagine.

Good Luck!

-Michael

(sorry for the mini-hijack!)

[The Stig]

We finally reached a milestone with the GTM that I've been looking forward to for a while.

We started it up for the first time today! It idles smooth and runs strong! And yes. I am pumped!

In addition to the body and paint work, I asked them tackle a few other things for me as well...

- I asked them to do the wiring throughout the car
- HVAC (Air conditioning & Heat)
- Cold Air Intake
- Transmission Oil Cooler
- Set the fuel pump and filters
- And installed the key-less ignition system for me.


LS2 with uncapped Kooks Headers. It was pretty loud, but man did it ever sound good! I can't wait to run it
with the Kooks cats and cross pipe.

Thought I would share it with you! (Just click the YouTube Link for the video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ18w6NNyEc&feature=player_detailpage

Go Cart soon to follow. So far no leaks in the cooling, fuel, or oil systems.

I can't seem to get this permanent grin off of my face. :cool:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0043.jpg

[RumRunner]

Mike,

Congrats on the milestone! The exhaust sounds raw and mean without the cats and mufflers, wow! Candy for the ears.

-Michael

====RumRuner, GTM #327

[The Stig]

Mike,

Congrats on the milestone! The exhaust sounds raw and mean without the cats and mufflers, wow! Candy for the ears.

-Michael

====RumRuner, GTM #327

Hi Michael,

Yeah, the sound caught me completely by surprise. I knew that it would be loud, but I didn't realize that it would hit me the way it did. I was standing next to the driver's side rear wheel, when John hit the start button. The exhaust pushed out a loud "pop" (a split second before the engine fired), that scared the crap out of me... Almost litterally! Then I heard the rumble of the engine, and how crisp and effortlessly it revs; and of of the sudden Life was Good again. It sure feels good to be past that milestone. :cool:

[LS MAN]

Hey Stig, great to hear it run. Almost as good as hearing your firstborn say "daddy" for the first time!

[riptide motorsport]

That is tooo cool a way to start a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!

[The Stig]

Hey Stig, great to hear it run. Almost as good as hearing your firstborn say "daddy" for the first time!

Hi Ted. You're right. Hearing your kids call you Daddy for the first time is definantly a lifetime milestone. I've experienced that three times. Now they're in College, so they say "Daddy, can I have..." .

So now I just needed to hear this car run. As soon as I heard the LS2 fire up, it gave instant credability to the build and reassured me that the efforts have not been in vain.

As always, I really apprecaite such positive comments, from people that I respect so much!

[Kempo]

HUGE milestone Stig!!!!!! Congratulations, cant wait to reach that point on mine.

[fact5racer]

So Mike, what was your final solution to the MAF scenario?

[The Stig]

So Mike, what was your final solution to the MAF scenario?

Hi Gary,

I called Modern Chevrolet (Winston-Salem, NC) and gave them the engine numbers of my LS2 Crate Engine, and asked them to give me the correct part number for the MAF sensor. Once I had that, I called City Chevrolet in Charlotte. They have a GMPP department, and I was able to get the Pin-out/Wiring diagrams for the connectors for the sensor pig tail, and the harness wires that run to the MAF Sensor.

Once we had those, John wired the pig tail to the harness and plugged it up. So far everything looks and runs great. We ran it with the headers un-capped, so I'm looking forward to hearing it with the rest of the Kooks exhaust installed.

I think that we've worked through just about all of the "hurdles", so we'll see what comes next.

Take care Buddy.

[xylonmedia]

After following your build since you started, I can honestly say that brought a huge smile to my face! Congratulations! Your car is looking really great, the blue rocks and the car sounds great! Also, your ignition system is awe inspiring! Keep up the great work!

[The Stig]

After following your build since you started, I can honestly say that brought a huge smile to my face! Congratulations! Your car is looking really great, the blue rocks and the car sounds great! Also, your ignition system is awe inspiring! Keep up the great work!

Thanks Buddy! I appreciate it. I'll dig up the website for the company that I bought the Ignition system from, and post it. It's really pretty cool.

It opperates on a proximity sensor that activates the ignition and allows it to start the car. If the key is within 4 feet of the car, then it arms the system. 4 feet away and the system is disarmed. It also has an alarm on it in the event that someone tries to open the door while the system (ignition) is disarmed. (That's how we found out that one of my horns didn't work)...

It it also eliminates the use of a conventional key, and the push start button is from Lexus, and operates exactly the same.

We'll see how well it really works in the real world...

Take care.

[Jeff Collins]

That ignition system is definitely cool. Real high tech stuff. A car like the GTM can definitely pull it off. It is one of those cool things you expect a car like this to have. The blue and red flashing LEDS have so far been used to simulate Knight Rider and a police car. I'm sure Mike will find a much more tasteful use for them. We are just having fun. Thanks for letting us be a part of it.

[The Stig]

Cars lookin great Stig!! Glad you guys are making progress. Good to see you & Jeff got the ram lifts to work on the Konis.

Hi Ted,

Just wanted to let you know that I received the Carbon Fiber close out covers for the rear of the headlight buckets.

Thanks! As always, a quality piece that will give a clean look in the fender wells.

Take Care!

[The Stig]

That ignition system is definitely cool. Real high tech stuff. A car like the GTM can definitely pull it off. It is one of those cool things you expect a car like this to have. The blue and red flashing LEDS have so far been used to simulate Knight Rider and a police car. I'm sure Mike will find a much more tasteful use for them. We are just having fun. Thanks for letting us be a part of it.

Hopefully it's not an Omen; I need to keep the red and blue lights to a minimum with this car! :cool:

Believe me, It's been fun for me as well.

[VD2021]

Mike,
Congrats on the engine start. Those push button start systems are great. I have a RFID with PKE installed on my GTM with 2 meter lock/un-lock are/dis-arm. The button that came with my system was designed to cover the ignition switch. So I purchased the button that Shane sells and soldered it in place of the other. Works perfectly with the blue LED still giving system. info. I just finished hanging my passenger door and will work on the driver's tomorrow. I'm planning something some-what unique for the door locks.

Congrats again.

[The Stig]

Mike,
Congrats on the engine start. Those push button start systems are great. I have a RFID with PKE installed on my GTM with 2 meter lock/un-lock are/dis-arm. The button that came with my system was designed to cover the ignition switch. So I purchased the button that Shane sells and soldered it in place of the other. Works perfectly with the blue LED still giving system. info. I just finished hanging my passenger door and will work on the driver's tomorrow. I'm planning something some-what unique for the door locks.

Congrats again.

Thanks Vidal,

I'd be interested in seeing your solution to the door locks. I think that's the one thing that I've not really thought about very much.

[The Stig]

It looks like the leak from the water pump didn't seal it's self with the heat cycles of the engine.

The pump came off to reveal two things:

The backing plate on the rear of the pump was "missing" two bolts. Then found that they weren't actually missing, but that the bolt heads had broken off. Who knows why...? I can't imagine why it would need to be messed with, unless Jeff Schwartz's guys thought it would keep the O-Ring from being damaged when the AN Bung was welded on.

So now these two bolts will need to be drilled and backed out, so they can be replaced.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous GTM Pictures/Waterpump1.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous GTM Pictures/Waterpump2.jpg

The Thermostat housing had warped a little from welding the AN Bung onto it. Aparently it wasn't checked for "flatness" to insure a proper seal. It is now...

It should seal up fine once everything is back together. The engine can be cycled again, and the A/C system will be charged and ready for the North Carolina Summer.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/Miscellaneous GTM Pictures/DSC_0016-1.jpg

Also, one of the RamLift Pro "Rams" decided to be a little difficult. When the car goes into the full lift position, and then comes back down, the upper seal leaks a good bit of Hydraulic Oil.

I spoke to Simon at (RamLift) and he tells me that a replacement is being shipped out today that should correct the problem.

If you click on this link, you see what I'm talking about... Nothing serious; just another delay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1jDTk4kLGI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

I may have to look into using some heavier springs as well. It seems that the springs are compressing when the lift moves up, and is only giving about 3/4" of actual lift. I was expecting around 2".

This is a bit frustrating: I've been considering a lighter set of springs (350 #) to go along with either a Miata Anit-Roll bar, or Ted Harrison's Anti-Roll solution in the front as well.
So needing to go to heavier springs may throw yet another wrench into the plans... But it will eventually all get sorted out.



The Computer (ECM) looks as though it may need to be re-programmed as well. After running the engine for a bit, it ran richer and richer. It was "tuned" by Jesse Bubb for a straight LS2, with Kooks Headers. I'm not really sure what would cause it to run so rich after being tuned. But instead of sending the computer back to him and waiting for another 2 months to get it back (that's what it took to get it back originally), Jeff is going to have everything Dyno-ed by one of the reputable shops in Greensboro. This should sort out all of the mixture settings, and make sure that everything is running as it should be.
We'll just have to see how it all works out.

The the body is scheduled to go on after the water pump and A/C charge has been completed. (Should have some pictures of that before long).

So Stay tuned. :cool: Life is good!

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Stig,

You may also want to pull that cover off the WP and check the O-ring and groove out. If you remember, the last car I did that had the bungs welded on the WP (also from Schwartz......nothing against Schwartz, but maybe he ended up with a crappy lot of WP's to work with!), the bottom of the O-ring groove was pretty nasty looking (like it had been cut with a hammer and dull chisel at 5pm on a Friday night).......and then it still leaked thru one of the bolt bosses.

[crash]

Since it's such a pain to access the pump after engine installation, it may be worth the effort to make up a little tube piece that will allow you to pressurize the engine cooling system out of the car. If I wasn't running my engine on an engine dyno, I would definitely be doing this. :)

[Roger Reid]

Since it's such a pain to access the pump after engine installation, it may be worth the effort to make up a little tube piece that will allow you to pressurize the engine cooling system out of the car. If I wasn't running my engine on an engine dyno, I would definitely be doing this. :)

Crash, can you give us your best guess on how and where to do this?

[The Stig]

Shane, I'm not slamming Jeff Schwartz. He has a great reputation and does some spectacular work.

It's just that when you spend that kind of money to have that work done, you don't expect to have to go behind and clean it up or re-do it all together.

I also spent a good bit of money for Jesse Bubb to "tune" my ECM, and re-work my engine harness to fit the GTM configuration. When I received the harness back from him (almost 3 months later), it looked as though it hadn't been touched. But I was absolutely charged for it. I could have raised a big deal about it, but what's the point? It's hard enough to get him on the phone in the first place, much less trying to sort out any issues. I spent more time talking to Hanna (Jesse's wife). So I figured I didn't really need the drama. Jesse was recommended by a few people here on the forum that I have huge respect for. I'm sure, like Jeff Schwartz, he does great work, or these guys wouldn't think so highly of him. I'm not sure what happened in my case, but someone sure dropped the ball.

In the mean-time, the pump was fixed and reinstalled. The Engine was heat cycled again, and this time, there were no leaks!

Still need to have the computer re-flashed, and then Dyno-Tuned, in order to try and correct the richness of the air/fuel mixture and optimize the engine's overall performance.

Life is good!

[crash]

Well, as far as the pressure test goes, just buy or fab up a 1.5 inch to 1.25 inch converter, then run a "loop hose" from the water pump inlet to the outlet. If you are running a header tank setup, simply plug the heater hose line and then put a compressed air fitting on one of the tank fittings. Then hook up your air compressor WITH THE REGULATOR SET TO ZERO, and gradually increase pressure to around 15 psi. If you want to put water into the system to help identify any leaks easier, that can be done too. If there are any other inlets/outlets that need to be plugged, of course also plug these. This should show you if there are any obvious leaks before you install the engine into position where it may be difficult to get to to fix. ;)

Stig- I don't know Jesse Bubb from Adam and have never used him, but in his defense, it is simply impossible to tune your ECM to your specific engine without running the engine on either an engine or chassis dyno. He certainly could fix VATS issues and put in a rough tune to get the engine running initially, but a specific tune that is niether too rich or too lean, too rich would be the preference IMHO, would really be impossible to do until the engine is running. Especially if anything like a cam has been changed. Maybe you were expecting too much? Maybe he owes you some dyno time? I don't know what you had worked out with him, but it would probably be best to talk directly with him before posting something negative. I know I would want every chance to make something right before seeing someone posting something negative about me or one of the products my company sells. FYI- When I reconfigured my harness to go from the rear of the engine to the front, there were only a few wires I needed to lengthen, so it won't look all that different, but what is important is if it all fits and works correctly.

As far as Jeff Schwartz, probably same goes there, but I am surprised that nobody mentioned to you, at the least, that there were a couple bolts broken off on the pump. Either they didn't disassemble the pump before welding, which in my book would be a no-no, or they totally dropped the ball on telling you those were broken.

[The Stig]

Crash,

I really hadn't intended to make a big deal out of any of this. I vented, and I was done. But since you want to toss it back into my lap, here you go...

As a result of the one conversation I was able to have with Jesse, my expectations were set prior to my sending the computer and harness out to be re-worked. I tried later, on multiple occasions, to contact Jesse to talk to him. Mainly due to that fact that it had taken over two moths at that point, and I had still heard nothing regarding when he would have them finished and shipped. My e-mails, voice mails, and calls were not returned. Apparently he had more important things to do. His wife kept assuring me that it would be shipped soon. (You shouldn't make the assumption that I flew off the handle, and simply decided to pop out a couple of negative posts about the vendors that we use here on the forums. Especially before you know the facts involved.)

As for Jeff Schwartz; I purchased the pump (new) from him. I did so, because he is extremely familiar with how the LS1 pump needs to be used with the GTM. He told me that he had the correct pump, so I bought it from him. He then, replaced the ports with the AN bungs as a service that he offeres through his shop. When I took the pump out, I never noticed any bolts missing or broken. But then again, I was more concerned with the AN fittings that were welded on. Honestly, it really never occured to me that it may have had anything wrong with it, since it was sold to me as a New Pump. I suppose I should have paid closer attention to it before I bolted it onto the engine. (For that, I blame myself).

The difference between Jeff and Jesse (at least in my experience) is that I can call Jeff Schwartz at his shop, and if I tell whoever answers that I really need to speak to him, He'll answer the phone and spend the 2 or 3 minutes that I need to have my question answered. I really have no issue with him or his shop.

The phrase "Live and Learn" has been especially true for me lately. I'm learning quite a lot.

Thanks for your concern.

[The Stig]

Initially, the engine fired up and seemed to run well. However, once it warmed up, and "closed the loop" it started loading up due to poor air/fuel mixture. It is now on it's 3rd set of plugs due to fouling from running so rich.

After sorting through the nightmare that is "MAF Sensor", and finally getting all of the air out of the coolant lines, the engine seems to be running well enough to start re-tuning.

Jeff took the chassis to one of his trusted tuners, who's first words were, "I can get 550 to 600 horse power out of this engine". Thankfully, Jeff told him that I am only looking for a good solid street tune. I want to keep it in the 400 to 450 hp range, because I feel that this will make the engine much more usable/manageable, and the power transfer/traction should be much better. I'm not even sure of the name of the shop that is dyno-tuning the car, but I'm sure that they'll do a good job.

So in any event, here's the GTM on the Dyno running through a 20 mile engine break-in session. This resulted in finding an oil leak cause by one of the valve cover gaskets. That was switched out, and the leak was gone.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMontheDyno.jpg

Once that was completed, and the air/fuel was adjusted a bit, they did the first real pull which netted around 345 hp. I'm not real familiar with how Dyno's work, but I was told that this Dyno is used mainly for Fords and for whatever reason they differ from Dyno's typically used for Chevrolets.

They'll start tuning it today, and optimize the performance for street use and reliability. If they can get it somewhere between 400-450 hp, I'll be happy with it. But we'll see where it ends up.

I'm out of town, and wasn't able to be there, so I don't have a video to post. It's a shame, because the Kooks Exhaust is on, and I've really been anxious to hear how it sounds. But here's the picture.

If it's done today, (and back at Whitby's) maybe I'll drive up to Greensboro and fire it up for a few minutes.

[mmaragos]

Stig - thanks for posting so much, it is great to see your car come together. I think your post really reinforces the need for all of us to get our cars tuned on the dyno or road tuned by a pro when it is in the car. 345 RWHP should be over 400 HP at the crank (405 with 15% drivetrain loss). I think stock LS2s were 400HP from the factory, full exhaust should net a very good increase. If you get a graph of the dyno run, it would be great for you to post with a list of your engine mods, etc.

I am scratching my head on the dyno being used mainly for Ford vs. Chevy - but maybe the comment is referring to the shop and perhaps they tend to do more Ford work? I see a Mustang in the background. Doesn't matter, just a curious detail.

[crash]

Stig- Certainly wasn't trying to "toss it back at you" or anything like that. It was just unclear from your previous post what you had tried in terms of contacts with these folks, and I was playing the devils advocate. That's all. Sounds like there was definitly a communication issue with Jesse, and if the engine was fouling plugs left and right...well, that's set up pretty rich.

I'm scratching my head about the Ford comment too.

You must be dying to hear this thing run. (?)

I know I would be.

[The Stig]

You must be dying to hear this thing run. (?)

I know I would be.

Yep. It's coming. We drove up to Greensboro this morning. My wife decided she wanted a new car, so we went up to look at one that she read about. We spent about an Hour listening to the salesman coming up with multiple ways to piss me off. The "Crown" family of Car dealerships seem to leave quite a lot to be desired... I think I'll stick with Rick Hendricks.

When we finished up there, we drove over to Whitby's to see if they had the car back. But no one was home.

So we drove back to Charlotte.

[10 10 Flyin]

Maybe ran on a mustang dyno vs a dynojet. Mustang dyno's do typically have lower numbers vs a dynojet, but never have heard them being brand loyal ...

[VD2021]

Yep. It's coming. We drove up to Greensboro this morning. My wife decided she wanted a new car, so we went up to look at one that she read about. We spent about an Hour listening to the salesman coming up with multiple ways to piss me off. The "Crown" family of Car dealerships seem to leave quite a lot to be desired... I think I'll stick with Rick Hendricks.

When we finished up there, we drove over to Whitby's to see if they had the car back. But no one was home.

So we drove back to Charlotte.

My ordered my last two new vehicle purchases. Less hassle and I got prcisely what I wanted.

My cousin is the sales manager of Vann York Honda in High Point. If the Vann York Auto Mall sales the model I can put you in contact with him.

[The Stig]

My ordered my last two new vehicle purchases. Less hassle and I got prcisely what I wanted.

My cousin is the sales manager of Vann York Honda in High Point. If the Vann York Auto Mall sales the model I can put you in contact with him.

Actually, I think I have her talked into keeping the CLS and being happy with it for a couple of years. If I replace that car, I'd prefer that it would be with a CLS63, but she doesn't like quite that much power. So after we drove a couple of cars, and then she got back into the Merc, she realized that she has a pretty nice (and safe) car.

So, once again, life is good. (But I'll keep your offer in mind).

[The Stig]

As I mentioned a few posts back, Jeff has the chassis at his trusted Dyno-Tuner's shop. Today he sent an IM telling me that the 2nd pull (with a mild tune) is now at 362 at the rear wheels. Since there is the theoretical 15% payment to the drive train, I guess it's somewhere around 415 @ the crank.

Part of me is saying to myself that I've reached my goal of 400-450, since I'm at 415 at the crank. But the other side of me is saying that my targets need to be measured at the Rear Wheels. If that's the case, to see 425 at the rear wheels, I'd need to be making somewhere around 475 at the crank. When we start getting in that range, I start to feel that it becomes wasted effort (and Dollars).

The tuner is going to hit it again tomorrow, to see what he can get, but I'm wondering if I really want to go much higher or not.

What does all the Dyno speak really mean? Crank Horse Power, Rear Wheel Horse Power, Ford Dyno, Chevy Dyno etc, etc, etc. Oh yeah, I've also heard that when you run a chevy engine on a dyno that typically runs Fords, you're actually looking at about another 15% above what the numbers show. If that's so, then I'm at about 478 @ the crank...

All I really know for sure, is that I don't really know what the engine is doing yet. Jeff said "It's gonna be SWEET!" So I just nod my head and smile. :cool:

One thing I can say with certainty, is that it's making me a little nervous to be running that brand new engine for all it's worth before it's ever even touched any asphalt... Especially when Jeff tells me about his collection of piston chunks that he'd like to show me when i come back up next time...

What are your thoughts? I'd really like to know.

[mmaragos]

I think there is some mis-communication - I don't think it is Ford vs. Chevy. I think that they are using a Mustang dyno (which is a brand of dyno). These dynos read lower than the other popular brand of dynos (DynoJet). I can't fully explain the differences, but the Mustang dyno is generally accepted as being more 'real-world' than a DynoJet. It takes into account vehicle weight and aerodynamic force. But regardless of dyno, they are both just tools that can be used to tune your engine. An increase in HP after tuning is an increase regardless. Don't get too caught up on the number, especially if you are on a Mustang dyno. The proof will be when the car is on the road.

[The Stig]

I think there is some mis-communication - I don't think it is Ford vs. Chevy. I think that they are using a Mustang dyno (which is a brand of dyno). These dynos read lower than the other popular brand of dynos (DynoJet). I can't fully explain the differences, but the Mustang dyno is generally accepted as being more 'real-world' than a DynoJet.

LOL!!! Now I get it! I didn't realize "Mustang" was simply the name of the Dyno that this guy uses. Duhhh. I thought it was a type dyno that shops use to Tune Mustangs on... I guess this is just another one of those "live & learn" days. Sometimes you can really feel like an idiot as you go through this "learning" process. :confused:

Thanks for the explanation! It sounds as though it's being tuned on the Dyno that makes the most sense for what I'm after then.

[crash]

mmaragos is spot on. No two dynos will read alike unless calibrated the same. Do you think everyone goes to the trouble of calibrating their dyno to a standard? I don't think so. As a matter of fact I KNOW they don't. Again, as mmaragos said, so long as the number is going up, it is a good thing.

As far as running it hard on the dyno? Yeah, dynos are typically hard on engines, but you stated that they went through a break in period on the dyno, and this is critical to ensuring that the rings are seated, the cam is seated, etc. It sounds like this dyno guy Jeff is using knows his stuff, and everything will be good.

Again, I would ALWAYS prefer that I am there when engines are being dynoed, but if you have someone you trust, it should be fine. :)

[Stage7]

As I mentioned a few posts back, Jeff has the chassis at his trusted Dyno-Tuner's shop. Today he sent an IM telling me that the 2nd pull (with a mild tune) is now at 362 at the rear wheels. Since there is the theoretical 15% payment to the drive train, I guess it's somewhere around 415 @ the crank.

Part of me is saying to myself that I've reached my goal of 400-450, since I'm at 415 at the crank. But the other side of me is saying that my targets need to be measured at the Rear Wheels. If that's the case, to see 425 at the rear wheels, I'd need to be making somewhere around 475 at the crank. When we start getting in that range, I start to feel that it becomes wasted effort (and Dollars).

The tuner is going to hit it again tomorrow, to see what he can get, but I'm wondering if I really want to go much higher or not.

What does all the Dyno speak really mean? Crank Horse Power, Rear Wheel Horse Power, Ford Dyno, Chevy Dyno etc, etc, etc. Oh yeah, I've also heard that when you run a chevy engine on a dyno that typically runs Fords, you're actually looking at about another 15% above what the numbers show. If that's so, then I'm at about 478 @ the crank...

All I really know for sure, is that I don't really know what the engine is doing yet. Jeff said "It's gonna be SWEET!" So I just nod my head and smile. :cool:

One thing I can say with certainty, is that it's making me a little nervous to be running that brand new engine for all it's worth before it's ever even touched any asphalt... Especially when Jeff tells me about his collection of piston chunks that he'd like to show me when i come back up next time...

What are your thoughts? I'd really like to know.

Hi Stig...congrats on your progress. Your car looks fantastic. I have been hoping to catch you at Allan's one of these days when you are traveling.

A couple of things:

1) Dyno differences: Dyno's are not brand loyal, but there are differences between different brands of dynos (not to mention whether or not it's calibrated-correction factors used, etc--these are things controlled by the dyno operator however). The 2 most popular dynos are Dynojets and Mustang Dynos (not affiliated with Ford or Mustang the car-it only shares the same name). The Dynojet is the "standard reference" comparing
rwhp #'s to other cars/builds on the internet (not that you can truly compare #'s from dyno's across the country or even dyno's down the street from each other really. Dyno calibration/operator consistency/weather/altitude/correction factors etc all make differences inevitable.). The Dynojet is an "inertia dyno". The rear wheels (or all wheels if 4wd) spin a drum of known mass and measures acceleration in rpm.

The Mustang Dyno is a "load bearing dyno". You also spin a drum of known mass, however it has the ability to simulate real world driving conditions (one reason it's probably the best for initial pre-WOT tuning for radical combinations). You can also run a Mustang dyno as an inertia dyno and vice versa, but generally Dynojets are run in inertia mode, and Mustang Dynos are run load bearing using an "Eddy Current" electromagnetic motor that can apply drag on the drum based on information entered in the computer. When run in their most common modes, Mustang dyno's almost always show lower rwhp #'s than Dynojets do in inertia mode. How much less? It's impossible to put a % to it as it's not a linear difference. It varies. A lot depends on the dyno operator as well. I used a Mustang dyno while taking the Advanced HP Tuner's course in Florida, and there are many more parameters being entered in during setup than a Dynojet. It was easy to get a 30-50hp swing with simple changes in setup data before ever making a run. The Dyno operator is critical. You generally don't see Mustang Dyno #'s in peoples signatures on the net, they are mostly Dynojet #'s or dyno's like the Dynojet. Doesn't make either right or wrong, but it does make it different. The differences I have personally witnessed between Mustang and Dynojet #'s of known cars (my own and friends), have been on the order of 7-13% depending on the combo. Take those % with a grain of salt. As I mentioned, it can be different for many combos. Also be very clear on the correction factor they are using if they are using any at all: Actual vs. STP/STD vs. SAE - In general engine dynos testing aftermarket engines use STD/STP correction unless SAE is requested (oem use SAE), and Chassis dynos use SAE (*normally*). Very important to know the difference and make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

2) Drivetrain losses: Placing a % on how much power the driveline uses before putting power to the pavement is only valid to that particular known engine/flywheel-clutch/driveshaft (if equipped)/differential-axle/rotor/wheel-tire combination on that particular engine dyno and chassis dyno. Like dyno differences, it's not linear. For example, it's "basically correct" to say c6 z06's have an 11% driveline loss for a bone stock car. (505hp SAE crank vs. 450ish SAE rwhp depending on the car, day, and dyno). However, when the ls7 is modded and makes 650 hp SAE on the engine dyno, and 600rwhp SAE on the dynojet, what's the % difference now? If it was still 11%, the rwhp would have been ~575-580rwhp. But it's not. Now the same exact driveline has a 50hp loss from the engine to the pavement vs. roughly a 55hp loss stock. The drivetrain loss has mostly stayed constant and the 5hp difference could have been due to a slightly lighter clutch, or just variance in the dyno. This example is a real build that happened btw, not theoretical. I only typed it to illustrate that assigning %'s for driveline losses isn't accurate once you start modifying the car.

Your Ls2 is 400hp stock. You should gain 20+hp (conservative) from the kooks and more performance oriented tuning, so expecting ~420 SAE engine hp is totally reasonable. I don't know the driveline loss with the g50/clutch combo you have, but if it was in an otherwise stock c6 you should see ~365-370rwhp SAE. A mild cam swap would put you well over 400rwhp SAE if you wanted to go that route. Even high 400's if you went a little more radical.

Hopefully this sheds light on some things and helps shape your expectations. Best of luck buddy and I can't wait to see your beautiful beast once it's finished.

[The Stig]

It sounds like this dyno guy Jeff is using knows his stuff, and everything will be good. Again, I would ALWAYS prefer that I am there when engines are being dynoed, but if you have someone you trust, it should be fine. :)

Hey Buddy! How's the ride coming along?

My schedule doesn't allow me to drive up to Greensboro as often as I would like, so I have to trust that Jeff understands what I want for my car, and then pursues the same goal.

[crash]

What happened to Stage 7s post?

The front board said that he had made a post around 10:44 this morning in this thread. At around 11:15 I finally got to see his post, which was a good explaination of the different dynos and such, yet now it is gone again?

Wierd.

It was good stuff, so I hope it gets posted back up. :)

[crash]

Hey Buddy! How's the ride coming along?



Slow. I've been redoing a roof/deck for the last month on my house and haven't had much time for the GTM-R. Richard came down and helped me with demo and underlayment, but it turned into a pretty big project. Anyway, hoping to start back up in the next week or so, but we will see.

I think I might have to pay someone to come and work on this thing for me if I'm ever to have a chance at having it done in a REASONABLE amount of time...:)

I really just need to get past the bodywork and then things will pick up steam significantly. I still manage to get a bit of work in on it almost every night after it gets dark, but I'm also getting tired of itching every night!!

[VD2021]

Slow. I've been redoing a roof/deck for the last month on my house and haven't had much time for the GTM-R. Richard came down and helped me with demo and underlayment, but it turned into a pretty big project. Anyway, hoping to start back up in the next week or so, but we will see.

I think I might have to pay someone to come and work on this thing for me if I'm ever to have a chance at having it done in a REASONABLE amount of time...:)

I really just need to get past the bodywork and then things will pick up steam significantly. I still manage to get a bit of work in on it almost every night after it gets dark, but I'm also getting tired of itching every night!!

Seems the house projects and Honey Do list items begin to appear and pile up as soon as you hit the garage, right. My living room is still white and the paint is sitting in the garage. I also noticed my lava rock bed has some weeds and requires a little maintenance. Seems there's never enough time in a day. My wifes in grad school (Evening classes two days/wk form), My son has football practice M,T,Th & F, my daughter has piano on Tuedays and I have a 2 year old with limitless energy. Sometimes I wish there were two or three of me........

Crash,
I'd really like to see your project. Any photos?

[crash]

My wife took some, but honestly I didn't have the time to even look at them. 16-18 hour days has been the norm for the last couple weeks on this thing...combined with a day job. :) I used the Versa Deck Plus system from this manufacturer www.deckcoatings.com. It appears to be a very good product. Many layers of protection. I also used CCA plywood to give an extra bit of protection from pests and water damage. This was a BIG project for me to do alone. About 600 square feet of deck all together. Thanks to the help of my family and Richard Migliori, I finished the last top coat last night. I'll try and get a picture of the finished product, but I am a ways off as I also need to redo the railing, paint the facias, and put down the ridiculously heavy Trex boards over top of the sealed surface.

Good summer project, but I would MUCH rather be working on my GTM-R.

BTW- Looked into having a contractor do the work, but it would have been well over $20k! :eek: Yeah, it was a couple weeks of after hours work for me, but certainly not worth paying someone $20k to do. The most important part, the flashing, I had a contractor come in and do.

Sorry for the side track Stig.

Maybe I'll start a new thread "Things we did this summer instead of work on our cars..." :)

[The Stig]

My wife took some, but honestly I didn't have the time to even look at them. 16-18 hour days has been the norm for the last couple weeks on this thing...combined with a day job. :) I used the Versa Deck Plus system from this manufacturer www.deckcoatings.com (http://www.deckcoatings.com). It appears to be a very good product. Many layers of protection. I also used CCA plywood to give an extra bit of protection from pests and water damage. This was a BIG project for me to do alone. About 600 square feet of deck all together. Thanks to the help of my family and Richard Migliori, I finished the last top coat last night. I'll try and get a picture of the finished product, but I am a ways off as I also need to redo the railing, paint the facias, and put down the ridiculously heavy Trex boards over top of the sealed surface.

Good summer project, but I would MUCH rather be working on my GTM-R.

BTW- Looked into having a contractor do the work, but it would have been well over $20k! :eek: Yeah, it was a couple weeks of after hours work for me, but certainly not worth paying someone $20k to do. The most important part, the flashing, I had a contractor come in and do.

Sorry for the side track Stig.

Maybe I'll start a new thread "Things we did this summer instead of work on our cars..." :)

LOL! Not a problem Mike! It's important to be reminded that life isn't 100% about working on the GTM (unless you build them for a living). :cool: I had hoped to be able to build an additional 3 car garage to use to finish the GTM (and build the future Mk4 Roadster) while it was away at Whitby's. However, my HOA is playing hardball about the fact that the garage would have to be detached. I absolutely can't stand how some people get a small bit of control, and then try to rule the world with it. We still don't have approval to build it.

[crash]

I caught a little flack when I built my shop from a couple neighbors, but since there is no HOA in my hood and it was already properly permited, they really couldn't do squat. After I called their attention to the permit I had, after one especially nosey neighbor claimed my building was ILLEGAL, everything settled down and they all turned friendly again. :) I did spend about double making the structure aesthetically friendly to the neighborhood though. Not only because it was the right thing to do, but it also fit into my plans perfectly. I cut the pad down into a hillside about 15 feet so that the building is hardly visible from the main street.

[The Stig]

Hi Stig...congrats on your progress. Your car looks fantastic. I have been hoping to catch you at Allan's one of these days when you are traveling.

Best of luck buddy and I can't wait to see your beautiful beast once it's finished.

Stage,

It's great to hear from you again. I'm not sure when I'll get back up to Allan's. The project that I had been working on in Southbury, finally wrapped up. Looks like I may be heading to OH (Dublin area) for a while, but I'm not sure yet.

Your post is full of really good information regarding the differences and use of different Dyno Applications. That's exactly what I needed to see in order to start to understand what dyno-tuning really means, and what the realistic results should be.

I'm not really sure what settings they used, STD/STP, SAE, or what. But jeff just called to say that the final pull netted 396 hp at the rear wheels. He says that it's very docile, starts right up and goes into a smooth idle, and then goes like crazy when you step on the gas. And that's exactly what I was after!

I believe "It's Gonna Be Sweet"!

So I'm planning to take my 5 gallon bucket (to sit on) and my driving shoes to Whitby's on Friday.

I'm Stoked!

[crash]

Be VERY careful if there isn't a proper seat and seat belts in the car!!

[The Stig]

Be VERY careful if there isn't a proper seat and seat belts in the car!!

LOL!!!! Calm down. I was joking... I'm just excited that it looks like the engine issue are well sorted. I would imagine that all I'll be doing is listening to the Kooks exhaust for a few minutes. This is a big thing for me. When Jeff called, he seemed about as excited about it as I am. So I'm Stoked.

May have another video tomorrow...

Woooo Hooooo! :cool:

[VD2021]

LOL!!!! Calm down. I was joking... I'm just excited that it looks like the engine issue are well sorted. I would imagine that all I'll be doing is listening to the Kooks exhaust for a few minutes. This is a big thing for me. When Jeff called, he seemed about as excited about it as I am. So I'm Stoked.

May have another video tomorrow...

Woooo Hooooo! :cool:

Outstanding!!! I'm excited too..........

[The Stig]

The cars is back from the tuner, so my wife & I drove up to Greensboro and finally heard the engine run with the Kooks exhaust. That system sounds goooooooood! I was also able to take a couple of (Go Cart) laps around the Whitby Parking Lot.

Link to the Video: LS2 with Kooks Exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=isEmrDKxAtk

I love the sound from the Kooks exhaust. It has a nice low rumble at idle, and a really sweet rasp when the revs come up.

The Carbon Fiber Engine cover looks Great! John did a great job, re-working the mounting pins so we could mount it onto the engine. It seems to fit pretty snug, and at the perfect height. I was worried that it was going to block the view through the rear window and hatch. I think it'll be ok now.

Link to the Video: The Whitby 500...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3ref8_K4dJs

I hit the start button, and the engine started right up, and settled into a nice smooth idle. It was very responsive to the gas pedal. If you give it a quick blip, it responds with a quick and crisp rev. It sure sounds good to me! As I drove it through the tight confines of the parking lot, I popped the pedal to see how it reacts while moving. I expected the rear tires to break loose: But they didn't. The car dug in an took off.

Very shortly after that, I got my first chance to test out the Big 6 piston brakes up front. The brakes were almost effortless, but very effective. I think that changing the master cylinders to 3/4" bore was the perfect thing for these brakes. Of course, I've only driven it around the parking lot... So I'll have to see how it feels when we've had a chance to do a couple of highway runs.

[claybags]

Lookin' good!!!!! I am soooo green with envy right now!!1
Cheers, Jeff

[VD2021]

Oh yeah...........

Sounds very nice Mike.

Getting closer..........

[Kempo]

Congratulations Stig very nice. I love the way the intake pipes,exhaust and engine cover look. The sound, the sound is just like music to the ears of any gear head.

[The Stig]

Congratulations Stig very nice. I love the way the intake pipes,exhaust and engine cover look. The sound, the sound is just like music to the ears of any gear head.

Hey Buddy. I agree. I think the Carbon Fiber cover really gives a great finished look to the engine bay. The Cold air intake wraps around it very cleanly. There's just enough room behind it for the CAI Y-Tube and the Kooks Cross Pipe not to look crowded in the space.

When I'm able to get the Factory Five Badge, Polished Ribs, and the LS2 Emblems on it, I think it'll really pull the engine bay together.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0492.jpg

I was really happy with the sound of the Kooks exhaust with the LS2. Since the engine is 100% stock, it gives a nice smooth Rumble, and the Kooks Exhaust gives it an aggressive European sound. Once you rev the engine, you can tell right away that it means business.

[The Stig]

Not that it matters a whole lot, but here are the spec sheets for the Dyno Tune. 394 hp, with 385 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels. It's not overly stellar compared to some of the other monster builds that are going into some of these cars. But it should be very drivable and fun! And it sounds Great! I'm more than happy with it. :cool:

Link to the Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=eovwIUakKJo

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM Parts/DynoSpecsStigsGTM001.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM Parts/DynoSpecsStigsGTM002.jpg

[Stage7]

It sounds great Stig. Looking good too. It looks nice even with out the body. Did you receive my pm on the Jenvey?

Nice #'s too!

[The Stig]

It sounds great Stig. Looking good too. It looks nice even with out the body. Did you receive my pm on the Jenvey?

Nice #'s too!


Hi Roberto.

Thanks for the props! I really appreciate it.

I did get your pm regarding the Jenvey intake system. I haven't had a chance to get into the details, but I plan to.

Thanks Buddy!

[The Stig]

It's actually happening: The body is being mounted onto the chassis today. Jeff sent a couple of pictures of the main body on the car. I told myself that wasn't going to post anything until it's completely mounted. But I'm too pumped up about it. So here are a couple of pics. It's getting closer. :cool:

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMBody.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMBodyRr.jpg

Pardon the shop dust! It just looks great to me, because they're finally able to mount it!

I'm not sure what they're going to do with all the freed up shop floor space...

[VD2021]

Stig,
So when will it be coming home?

Are they going to just mount the body, hatch, hood and hang the doors or will you get it back ready to register/drive?

Not long now...................

[The Stig]

Stig,
So when will it be coming home?

Are they going to just mount the body, hatch, hood and hang the doors or will you get it back ready to register/drive?

Not long now...................

LOL!!! Jeff told me that he was starting to add up the work hours, and he's already gone through the first ink ribbon on his adding machine. Kind of a scary thought...

I think that we're going to have the inspection done at Whitby's. So I should be able to take all paperwork down to the DMV and get the plates for it pretty soon.
I still have a bit to do. It'll go to Chuck Hanna's (Hot Rod Interiors), in Mooresville, for a full custom interior. But before I can send it there, if have to install the stereo and remote radar detector. At that point, I may be able to call it "Finished" for the most part.

Interior is the next big hurdle. Chuck's not cheap. $$$. We'll see what's left over after I pay Jeff for the extra's (above body & paint). That could determine how long it might be before it's done. I'm actually considering just putting the original interior in, and taking it to Hannah's during the winter.

[VD2021]

I'm actually considering just putting the original interior in, and taking it to Hannah's during the winter.

Now that sounds like the plan I'd go with........Definitely gets you on the road faster. It also lets you enjoy it throught the fall and you get snow there during the winter, right?

[The Stig]

We sure did last year! But it's not always a given. In a "normal year we may get 1 to 3 inches. Last year we had 3 or 4 times when we got more than 4" each time. For us, that's a lot.

So I'm not that interested in driving it in the Salt and Snow...

If they can remove the upholstery panels easily enough, (without messing up the Dynamat), I think I may go that route. We'll see.

When you come up, you'll have to stop by.

[The Stig]

I just saw the next milestone coming to life!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0151.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0152.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0153.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0154.jpg

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0155.jpg

The C6 (Z06) Big Brake kit. I thought that using these brakes over the C5 brakes would cause the pedal effort needed to
stop the car to be much higher. It didn't. When I drove Allan Uzwiak's GTM earlier this year, I was really surprised at how
well the brakes worked, and how good they felt. If I hadn't already bought the C6/Z06 Brake kit, I would have probably
just had my C5 Calipers rebuilt and used them.

But man, I have to say... I really think I made the right choice by upgrading. Along with the Brake Kit, I also bought a
complete set of 3/4" bore Master Cylinders. This helped to reduce to amount of pedal effort quite a bit. Also, the 6-Piston
fronts, and 4-Piston rears gave enough brake power, that they can ease into the braking with light effort. With just a little
more effort, they really haul down the car to a stop. The pedal feel was a lot like the feel of power brakes. Not quite the
same feel; but VERY close!

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0157.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0158.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0159.jpg

The Carbon Fiber engine cover sits low enough that it does not block the view through the rear window and hatch.
It really looks nice, and takes away the neon billboard in the engine compartment that screams CORVETTE.
Especially with the hatch down.

This isn't a wide angle lens sort of photo. The rear of the car, really is this wide.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0161.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0164.jpg

There's a good bit of head room; at least for me. I'm 5'-11" (6'-0" on a good day).
So I don't have quite the same issue with headroom that others do.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0166.jpg

There is still a bit to do in order to get the body finished up. And I honestly do not know how long it might take. But when I
saw the body sitting on the chassis, I was actually satisfied with where everything is, and with whatever timeline it takes.
Because, I am finally seeing this car come together. And it's turning out pretty much the way I had hoped it would. I'm
feeling pretty good about it.


One more thing...
As you can see by this video, there just isn't a "cool" or gracefull way to get out of the GTM. I'll have to work on it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9mL9YTNcyM&feature=player_detailpage

[The Stig]

I got a call from Jeff @ Whitby's, earlier this afternoon. It seems that the body is getting VERY close to being done, which means that in the not so distant future the car should be coming back to my garage. I've pretty much decided that I am going to drive it through the end of Summer and Fall.

With that said, I'm going to be "temporarily" installing the Factory Five interior soon. So I have an interior related question...

How many of you are using 4 or 5 pt harnesses? Was it an issue (after) you passed your inspections? I've read that in some states, this something that the (DMV) frowns on in a street car. It doesn't seem to be an issue in other states, as I recall. I have no idea how NC looks at it. If there is someone from NC reading this that can tell me, I'd appreciate it.

In the meantime, those of you who are using the 4-pt harnesses; which kind did you use? Simpson, Schroth, etc.?

I'd really like to hear your opinions.

[spytech]

I'm using 6-point camlock Crow harnesses. I don't like how the seatbelts 'feel' in the GTM setup (cuts across my neck awkwardly) and I just don't trust them really after reading the lengthy seatbelt safety threads on the other forum. I still have them installed, but I've never used them while driving. The harnesses really keep you secure - you do not/cannot move much once you are strapped in. With the camlock setup it only takes a few seconds to buckle up and unbuckle the harness.

Not sure about inspections - in MN all they check is the frame serial #. They don't do any safety checks, etc.

BTW, the easiest way, especially once you have the doors on, to enter the GTM is to simply to sit down side ways into the car and swing your legs in. Easiest way to exit is to just reverse that and give yourself a push off the door ledge or seat. I love watching passengers trying to get in/out when they don't know this technique.

[The Stig]

Thanks Spy. I like the way they look. I haven't been to your site in a while. Do you have any pictures of how a 6 pt harness mounts for the 2 forward belts? The seats will be on a slider, so I would think that the forward belts would need to be adjustable in some way.

As far as getting out of the car; I ended up doing pretty much what you mentioned. I didn't swing both legs out, (but I will next time)! I did use the door ledge and the seat bolster to hold myself steady as I got out. The problem was that the seat isn't mounted yet. It's just sitting in the car loose. So when I tried to use it to steady myself, it wanted to slide away. Go figure!

Take care buddy!

[riptide motorsport]

Looks awesome!!

[Stage7]

I am loving the color... :)

[The Stig]

Looks awesome!!


I am loving the color... :)

Thanks Guys.

I figured I'd get pretty pumped up as Jeff and the guys at Whitby's got closer to finishing up the body. What an Understatement! I drive up about once a week or so, and my wife tells me that it's getting harder and harder for her to tear me away. I think that Jeff and the guys there would let me just stand there talking their ears off and staring at the car, even though I'm sure I'm keeping them from their work... I can't help it. I'm finally about to have my GTM, and it'll be ready for the road shortly after getting it back.

Roberto,
The color is one that has been stuck in my head since I saw the GTM for the first time. I really like the color, but I just always thought it would look pretty cool on the GTM. I figured that with the pearl and metalflake in the paint, it would realy highlight the lines and the curves of the body. I'm glad you agree.

[spytech]

Thanks Spy. I like the way they look. I haven't been to your site in a while. Do you have any pictures of how a 6 pt harness mounts for the 2 forward belts? The seats will be on a slider, so I would think that the forward belts would need to be adjustable in some way.

As far as getting out of the car; I ended up doing pretty much what you mentioned. I didn't swing both legs out, (but I will next time)! I did use the door ledge and the seat bolster to hold myself steady as I got out. The problem was that the seat isn't mounted yet. It's just sitting in the car loose. So when I tried to use it to steady myself, it wanted to slide away. Go figure!

Take care buddy!
You will find pics of the connection points here: http://www.gtm-supercar.com/?p=1493
The 'crotch belts' and lap belts both adjust at the sides. I leave the crotch belts out pretty far so they don't crush the goods, but if I slide forward in the seat they do their job. Lap belts and shoulder belts are easily adjustable at any time.

[The Stig]

I leave the crotch belts out pretty far so they don't crush the goods, but if I slide forward in the seat they do their job. Lap belts and shoulder belts are easily adjustable at any time.

LOL!!! Crush the goods!!!!! That's funny!!!! But I do like the fact that you can leave them loose as your pictures show.

[rev2xs]

What I did was cut and re-weld the lower seat belt mount so that when i mounted my Autoloc seatbelt re-tractor on it, the inertia mechanism works perfectly. The seat belt mount in its stock form is simply at a far to steep an angle for any inertia mechanism to work with any re-tractor. Obviously, this is why FFR have you remove the inertia mechanism from the re-tractor on the stock belts. Once you reweld the mount, even the stock belts unmodified will work fine.

So, in answer to your question, i am using autoloc retractable seatbelts. You can get them from the hoffmangroup website in pretty much any colour you want.



I got a call from Jeff @ Whitby's, earlier this afternoon. It seems that the body is getting VERY close to being done, which means that in the not so distant future the car should be coming back to my garage. I've pretty much decided that I am going to drive it through the end of Summer and Fall.

With that said, I'm going to be "temporarily" installing the Factory Five interior soon. So I have an interior related question...

How many of you are using 4 or 5 pt harnesses? Was it an issue (after) you passed your inspections? I've read that in some states, this something that the (DMV) frowns on in a street car. It doesn't seem to be an issue in other states, as I recall. I have no idea how NC looks at it. If there is someone from NC reading this that can tell me, I'd appreciate it.

In the meantime, those of you who are using the 4-pt harnesses; which kind did you use? Simpson, Schroth, etc.?

I'd really like to hear your opinions.

[The Stig]

Rev,

I'm following what you're saying in regard to the need to cut and reweld the bracket, but I'm a visual sort of guy. Could you post a picture or two of the bracket before and after the weld, so we can get a sense of how much of an angle we would need to maintain?

[VD2021]

Rev,

I'm following what you're saying in regard to the need to cut and reweld the bracket, but I'm a visual sort of guy. Could you post a picture or two of the bracket before and after the weld, so we can get a sense of how much of an angle we would need to maintain?

I was thinking the same thing. I definitely would like to see the finished product.

[VD2021]

[IMG]

One more thing...
As you can see by this video, there just isn't a "cool" or gracefull way to get out of the GTM. I'll have to work on it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9mL9YTNcyM&feature=player_detailpage

Speaking of getting in and out. I'm only 70" but I've 26" quads. Passenger side of Keith's GTM, no problem. Driver's side was a different story. I really had to finesse my right quad to get in. I have a slim quick release on my build to remedy this. If you don't have a quick release you can shave down the tilt bumper located on top of the column.

[Fred Brewer]

I've got a set of Crow 5 point cam lock harnesses. I also moved the lower mounts forward about 8" or so. With the amount my seat is reclined and my hips shoved forward, it seems as if a mount with much less angle works better. I would like to know how everyone is mounting the crotch strap. I haven’t done that as of yet and I’m hesitant to just mount it though the floor pan.

BTW.... the car is looking great!

[The Stig]

BTW.... the car is looking great!

Thanks Fred. I really appreciate it.

[The Stig]

I just got word that Jeff should have the car finished up next week sometime. The DMV inspection is being scheduled for this week. The glass guys are coming in this week. And he'll have his stuff wrapped up. Diffuser (with Shane's louvers) is going on today.

I also learned a couple of things that has helped me make a firm decision on the custom interior. That will definitely have to wait until next year sometime (probably mid-year). Looks like the Factory Five interior will be going in. I do have a set of Gen-II seats that will be used, thanks to Jason Cecil. I'm not overly happy about how the black interior will look with the paint, but it is what it is.

I still need to decide which seat belts I'll end up using. My C5 belts are gray, because I am planning to eventually have a full gray leather interior. With the black FFR interior, I'll probably go with a set of black 5 pt harness belts. I don't know.

Should have some pictures of the exterior that will look pretty much finished, very soon.

At least it should be on the road soon.


Stay tuned.

[LCD Gauges]

Wow, that colour looks hot! I didnt' realize the engine sits that far foward in the cabin! Are the motor mounts moved, or
is that the factory mounted position?

You can change a serpentine belt while shifting gears! ;P

[The Stig]

Wow, that colour looks hot! I didnt' realize the engine sits that far foward in the cabin! Are the motor mounts moved, or
is that the factory mounted position?

You can change a serpentine belt while shifting gears! ;P

Thanks for the compliment. I also think the Body looks great. I'm happy with the way it has turned out. Jeff and everyone at Whitby's has done a great job. And yes, the engine becomes one of the family in this car. The motor mounts are the standard LS1 mounts that Factory Five recommends, so it's sitting in the chassis exactly as designed.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMFront2.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMFront1.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear1.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear2.jpg

[Kempo]

Very nice Stig!!!!!!!!

[VD2021]

M,
Beautiful.

It won't be long now.

[sk7500]

Just looking at your car makes me feel good and long for the day I can put my hand on something other than primer. Keep the pictures coming PLEASE!!

[The Stig]

Just looking at your car makes me feel good and long for the day I can put my hand on something other than primer. Keep the pictures coming PLEASE!!

LOL!!! Hi Steve. I know what you mean. I remember the first time I walked into the shop and saw the painted body; I was blown away. Now to see it actually being mounted to the Chassis really feels good. Jeff and the guys at Whitby's have done a spectacular job with the GTM. In my oppinion, everything that they've done is at the highest levels.

The Glass installer is scheduled to come in soon. Was going to be this week, but the Windshield that Jeff had planned to use, had a scratch accross it at eye level. So that won't work. I need to take my windshield up to the shop, but I have to travel to Ohio for the week.

Jeff mentioned that he could stop by and pick it up while they are here in Charlotte for the Fall Auto Fair Car Show. If so, then I guess it'll be installed the week after. The car should be finished up pretty soon after that.

Once it gets back here, I'll start putting the interior together. As I've mentioned in previous posts, I had planned to have a custom interior installed right away, but it looks like that will have to wait until spring or so of next year. Until then, the Kit interior will go in. There's still a little work to do, but it's getting closer to being on the road. I hope to be able to drive it for two or three months before winter sets in. We'll see what happens.

I'll post more pictures as I go.

By the way, It is so cool to see the things that you and Ken have done with your GTM. Truely amazing! The doors, and rework of the front hood & fenders are pretty cool. But the thing that stands out the most to me, has to be the relocation of the exaust to the lower corners of the rear. That's something that I actually wanted to do with my car, but decided to forego it, went with the Kooks system instead. I can't wait to see your completed car. You've provided inspiration for the rest of us with your build. Great Stuff!


Hugo & Vidal, It really pumps me up to read the comments that you and others have made regarding my car. I'm just looking forward to finally being able to drive it, and start building my impressions of how it drives and handles. Then I'm sure that I'll need to tweak a few things to get them sorted out.

I'll probably just keep posting to this thread, since it seems to have unintentionally become a 'build thread" for the car. It has been, (and continues to be), great to have the support of the people here.

Thanks!

[The Stig]

I'll be putting the carpets and interior components in before long. so I'm sure that I still need to seal the floor before I do. So what are you guys using to seal up the interior gaps/openings between the aluminum panels to insure that the car is "water tight"?

Some time ago, Allan Uzwiak mentioned using one of the "Second Skin" products as a "slurry" to fill the gaps. What else are you guys using?

[The Stig]

My GTM, is Chassis # 0081. One of the early cars. So there have been many changes made to the GTM manufacture process since mine was built and sold to it's original owner.

Since my car should be done with Body & Paint soon, I got my center dash/console section out of storage this weekend to clean it up and prep it to go into the GTM. I hadn't really given it a lot of thought, because I wasn't really planning to use it. All along, I had planned to had a custom interior designed and installed. but plans change apparently.

The early cars used carbon Fiber for the Center section of the Dash/Console, as well as the engine cover. I was really surprised to see that you could pretty much see through it. It looks as thought some of the CF has disintegrated or something. Also in the area of the air vents it looks as if the CF has de-laminated from the inside. So what you see is about a 1" section of clear instead of Carbon Fiber.

I guess I'll have to make some arrangement to either have this fixed, (if that's even possible), or replace it. I could have it covered with leather, but I hate to do that, and then replace it in 6 months or so... But at the same time, I want it to look nice in the interim.

Has anyone else had this issue recently (Gen I)? I remember a while back when "Silver Pearl" went on a rant about some of the vinyl de-laminating from the backing. but I don't recall reading about issues with any of the CF parts from the earlier cars.

As always, thanks for your help.

[spytech]

I didn't get the CF dash with my car (#232), but the carbon fiber piece for the gauges was 'see thru', as you described. I painted the back of it with some flat black spray paint so light didnt seep through it, etc.

[crash]

Unfortunately, especially depending upon the quality of the "goo" that was used, composite parts tend to have a rather short shelf/service life. Composite race car components-seats, helmets, heck even chassis tubs- have a service life of no more than 5 years. It is for this reason alone that I will almost never use a composite seat. It's just another part that "times out" on a race car and has to be replaced regularly.

Not saying that your issues are "normal" but CF degradation over time is a common issue.

[mmaragos]

Stig - I was wondering if you could give some more details on the Ramlift Pro yet. Which kit did you use (1.25" or 40mm)? How much actual lift are you getting? Are you using the stock springs? I have been adjusting my ride height and with just under 5" of clearance up front I can make my driveway, but that is without the splitter mounted. :( If the 40mm gives 1.5" of actual lift, that might work for me. I have also been considering Ironman's solution, but I would need to relocate my front power cell. Thanks. Matt

[The Stig]

Hi Matt,

I am using the 40mm lift. So far, I am using stock springs (450lbs). If I remember correctly, the lift is giving just over 2". I think it would lift it a bit more, (maybe 1/2 to 3/4"), but the KONI shock length keeps it from extending any more. I am planning to switch to Penske's in the not to distant future. When I do, I'll probably go an inch or so longer. As well, I am planning to start with 4 1/2" of ground clearance for front and rear, and then work from there. (Thanks for coming up with the skids Russ & Dave!)

I agree with you in regard to what Iron Man came up with. I think his solution is pretty cool, but I already had a ton of stuff in that area, and didn't want to move it around. The RamLift Pro system was a little pricey, but it allows me to use the space that I have without changing things around.

I am also planning to add Ted's anti-roll bar system and go a little lighter on the springs to some where between 350-400 lbs. I want to drive it for a little while to get a feel for where the springs should be before I make wholesale changes to the front suspension. Maybe by then, Ted will have a bar system for the rear! Hint Hint.

These upgrades will probably go in somewhere around early spring. (After the interior is completed).

We'll see what happens.

[mmaragos]

Thanks for the info! That is really good lift (~2")! That would be more than enough for me.

[The Stig]

I'm thinking of changing the brake/clutch pedals out. I have the early Wilwood pedals, and saw a set that I would rather have in the car.

They appear that they would be a little stronger than the original Wilwood Pedals that came with my GTM. I am also interested in being able to adjust the pads on the pedals just a bit, to give a little more room for foot position on the pedals.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM Parts/WilwoodPedals340-11295-lg.jpg

I've noticed these pedals (or some very similar) on someone elses car. Are these a direct fit for the GTM?

Thanks for your help.

[Kempo]

Stig,

My Gen II came with those pedals. As you plan I installed the pads all the way to the left to have the pedals as in line as possible with the center of the seat. Later today I will look at the box it came in to see if there is a part number on it and post it here for you.

[VD2021]

Wish mine came with those. I saw those on your car K, but assumed you modified them. I'll consider changing them out for the ability to adjust the pedals if the cost is reasonable.

[Kempo]

The wilwood part number on the box is 340-11295. The description is pedal assy, forward,HD, 6.25 to 1 adjustable triple M/C. I'm sure FFR can supply them if needed. IMHO I would try to source them from FFR first if it has a reasonable market price order it from them. I would rather leave my money in their pocket or one of the supporting vendors than in some other vendor like summit, jegs etc.
H

[crash]

Can someone post a pick of the original pedal assembl that was used? I may be interested in buying one of them...if it looks like it will work correctly in my application.

[mmaragos]

3741

[crash]

Thanks. Unfortunately not the right part for my project, but thanks for posting.

[The Stig]

The wilwood part number on the box is 340-11295. The description is pedal assy, forward,HD, 6.25 to 1 adjustable triple M/C. I'm sure FFR can supply them if needed. IMHO I would try to source them from FFR first if it has a reasonable market price order it from them. I would rather leave my money in their pocket or one of the supporting vendors than in some other vendor like summit, jegs etc.
H

Thanks Hugo! That's exactly what I needed. I appreciate your help.

Mike

[The Stig]

The wilwood part number on the box is 340-11295. The description is pedal assy, forward,HD, 6.25 to 1 adjustable triple M/C. I'm sure FFR can supply them if needed. IMHO I would try to source them from FFR first if it has a reasonable market price order it from them. I would rather leave my money in their pocket or one of the supporting vendors than in some other vendor like summit, jegs etc.
H

Hugo,

I've bought replacement master cylinders from Wilwood, and found them very easy to do business with. I'll just order the pedals from them directly. I think when I get them, I may have them powder coated a titanium gray color. Eventually, the car will have a medium gray leather interior. The carpets will be a shade or two darker, so the color of the pedals should should match pretty well.

Lokar makes an electronic pedal for the LS-x electronic accelerator, that will match the style of the brake and clutch pedals. I'll have it powder coated the same Titanium Gray color. It should look pretty good. I guess we'll see.

[The Stig]

I know that this question has been asked over and over on the other forum. But I'd really like to ask your opinion.

What are you guys using for sound dampening and heat barriers? What were your reasons for the choice you made? Cost, effectiveness, ease of installation? All of the above? Just kidding; I figure that's too much to ask.

I have some material that I used on the inside of the tunnel, but I'm not sure if that's the way to go or not.

I was told that "It's just like Dynamat, but at half the cost".

So I guess my question is; should I just go ahead and get Dynamat to do the interior, instead of products that claim to be just like it?

I've read about 2nd skin, with the Damplifier layers and the spray on heat barrier.

I've also read about the custom fitted product from the Vendor that advertises on the FFCars forum. The main selling point there, was ease of installation.

So what do you say? What have you used that you feel really works?

Thanks,

[Radkat]

I was checking into "HushMat", but I don't know how it compares to Dynamat.

[GTMsomeday]

I was checking into "HushMat", but I don't know how it compares to Dynamat.

I used some HushMat to seal around dash area. Worked great. Much eaiser to use than DynaMat type material (i used RoadKill). Dynamat is very heavy of course - HushMat is not. Dynamat is hard to shape around bends - Hushmat is not. I think a combination of the two is best. Hushmat will tear eaiser than dynamat. All thru the cabin to seal air leaks - Husmat is great stuff. Buy a little and try it. It is supposed to help with heat too. I used it under the hatch on top of dynamat to insulate paint form exhaust heat. Seems to be working good. 106 degree weather in Dallas - hushmat has not changed its consistency and paint is still perfect. I sound like a salesman - i'm not!:o

[Kempo]

I ordered this kit from quiet ride. It is supposed to have all you will need for the GTM is all pre cut and includes the 3M spray on glue. They use Dynamat for the sound and another material thermal insulation on their kit.

http://www.quietride.com/catalogpdfs/factory-five-catalog.pdf

[Radkat]

Thanks for all the feedback on Dynamat/HushMat.

[VD2021]

So what do you say? What have you used that you feel really works?

Thanks,

Mike,
The fact is all of the products/brands work if we use them in the correct configuration/application. Some brands or grades may be easier to install, last longer or have better adhesive.

The drawback for us is that the GTM with the stock "H" pipes, kooks or any race muffler setup produces dbs that are beyond any practical application to really quiet the interior under throttle.

With that said we can quiet down the road noise and maybe keep some of that exhaust note in the back of the GTM.

Remember that the dynamat products are designed to reduce vibration and deaden the panel. You still need to absorb and/or block the sound that will pass through the deadened panel. Most automobile manufacturers use a material similar to carpet backing to absorb and decouple the panel from their next layer. This is usually the hard rubber carpet backing. That backing acts as the sound blocker. This method works extremely well and is done on the floors, firewall and partly on the doors. Higher end autos will have a solid system for the doors and other areas such as the trunk, pillars and roof.

I was a mobile install tech at a high end shop before I left for OCS. Even back then we would try to mimic what the high end autos were doing when we set out to quiet an interior.

[crash]

You must also realize that most GTM builders run the intake over and either up to the side 1/4 windows, or to the side vents by the doors. This puts the intake, basically, right next to the drivers head. That intake is gonna be loud. No matter how you slice it, if you run the intake that close to your ear and have a reasonably good performing engine, you're gonna get a lot of "engine noise".

[spytech]

I have my intakes right behind the naca ducts where the side windows would have been. My 408 sucks a lot of air and man does it sound awesome. Sounds like a blow off valve every time I'm on the throttle, etc lol. I guess not everyone would like that though.

[crash]

Yep, not saying it's a bad thing, just trying to make people aware that are trying to quiet "The Beast" that a lot can be done in early design considerations that have a rather large effect on something they may want to consider. :)

Be a shame to do all the work to quiet the thing down and then be upset that it was still really loud just because the intake was placed in the wrong location. :)

[The Stig]

Yep, not saying it's a bad thing, just trying to make people aware that are trying to quiet "The Beast" that a lot can be done in early design considerations that have a rather large effect on something they may want to consider. :)

Be a shame to do all the work to quiet the thing down and then be upset that it was still really loud just because the intake was placed in the wrong location. :)

I'm not under the impression that I can make the interior of the GTM as quiet as a high end Merc or BMW. But if you can cut out as much of the road noise and vibrations as possible, it will help. I know that this is a high performance car, with the engine sitting a few inches behind my right shoulder. My intakes are aimed at the side intakes behind the doors. The set up that Factory Five sells has the filters hanging down quite a bit. That should help "some" with the intake noise.

The roof will be lined with something... I'm not sure what yet. I am wondering if the bars should be wrapped with a 1/8 sound dampener as well. There isn't much room between the pillars and the bars. But it seems to me that vibrations could run through the frame rails and into the bars. Some sort of vibration dampener might help that. Of course, the more of this that you use, the more weight you add. You can give away a lot of weight in a hurry with this stuff.

I really want to get the interior sealed as much as possible, while still allowing room for the seats to fit. There isn't a lot of room between the sides of the seats when you use a lot of sound deadening, and heat barrier.

Just trying to think through this.

[GTMsomeday]

37613760


The roof will be lined with something... I'm not sure what yet. I am wondering if the bars should be wrapped with a 1/8 sound dampener as well. There isn't much room between the pillars and the bars. But it seems to me that vibrations could run through the frame rails and into the bars. Some sort of vibration dampener might help that. Of course, the more of this that you use, the more weight you add. You can give away a lot of weight in a hurry with this stuff.

Just trying to think through this.

I used a radiant barrier on the roof before placing the headliner. Cool stuff. It is about a 1/4 inch thick and has foil on both sides. I don't know if it is making any difference or not, but it was easy to do. Got it at home depot. My body guy suggested it.

[kbentzel]

Stig,
I used the Quiet Ride on my build. Because it is precut and "engineered" it was easy to install. Is it effective? That's kind of hard to know. My GTM is the only one I've ever been in so I have nothing to compare it to. It is louder than I would have liked but a fair amount of that noise is road noise from the rear tires. I have applied second skin to both sides of the wheel well panels front and rear and that helped a little. I think I am still transferring sound from the rear to the cockpit via the body around the quarter windows. I'm still looking for ideas on that one. I have my air filters near the side intakes and I don't notice any noise from them....Well until I stick my foot in it.
Keith

[spytech]

Same here Keith - the only area I think noise really gets through (other than through the 'glass' on the rear wall) is on the sides where the quarter windows would have been, etc. Kris mentioned using a plastic bag with expanding spray foam for the rocker panels - that might work up there underneath the 'rear cockpit panels' as well... Hard spot to access though.

[The Stig]

Same here Keith - the only area I think noise really gets through (other than through the 'glass' on the rear wall) is on the sides where the quarter windows would have been, etc. Kris mentioned using a plastic bag with expanding spray foam for the rocker panels - that might work up there underneath the 'rear cockpit panels' as well... Hard spot to access though.

I've wondered about how to do something about the rear firewall glass to kill some of the noise. The only thing that I can come up with, is building a "bracket or something that lets you use a sealed dual window. How do you not over fill the rockers with too much expanding foam? That stuff keeps expanding for a while. It sounds like it may be a good idea though, if you can control it.


Stig,
I used the Quiet Ride on my build. Because it is pre-cut and "engineered" it was easy to install. Is it effective? That's kind of hard to know. My GTM is the only one I've ever been in so I have nothing to compare it to. It is louder than I would have liked but a fair amount of that noise is road noise from the rear tires. I have applied second skin to both sides of the wheel well panels front and rear and that helped a little. I think I am still transferring sound from the rear to the cockpit via the body around the quarter windows. I'm still looking for ideas on that one. I have my air filters near the side intakes and I don't notice any noise from them....Well until I stick my foot in it.
Keith

I do like the thought of the quiet ride system. The fact that it is already pre-cut for the GTM is a big plus. It looks to me that the vibration and Sound Dampener is just strips, instead of solid sheets. Does that matter? Or do you just need to reduce the vibrations in different areas as opposed to total coverage?

Allan Uzwiak told me a while back that he used the 2nd Skin mixed very thick, to seal the gaps/openings between the aluminum panels. He said that helped a lot.

When you coated the rear wheel well panels, did you remove the panels and coat them, or were you able to coat them on the car? He also used a heat barrier that looked sort of like woven fiberglass or carbon fiber. If I'm not mistaken, it came from DEI. I'll have to look back through my notes this weekend.

Thanks Guys.

[kbentzel]

They say the strips are all you need to stop any harmonics. Each panel has a specific layout for the strips.

I removed the panels so I could coat both sides. This is a case where more is better.
Keith

[spytech]

The 'woven heat barrier' that looks like woven fiberglass was probably Thermotec or something like it. I know the thermotec stuff I used is exactly like that, even makes you itchy if you dont use gloves when cutting it, etc.

As for the spray foam in the rockers - use a medium garbage bag and stuff it in the rocker, then spray away and twist off the opening. As long as the bag has slack in the areas you pushed it into, the foam will go there and seal everything up. At least that's the theory. I will probably pull off my rear wheel well covers and try it this winter.

[crash]

If you guys are doing any volume of foam, it is WAY cheaper to do a two part urethane pour foam, as opposed to the spray foam from the places like Home Cheapo.

The two pound low density foam works fine for most things.

As an aside, as some of you know, I am considerably reworking the GTM body for racing purposes, and the use of these pour foams has been extensive. One of the first "how to" videos I will be trying to get up soon to www.myraceshop.com will be the body work videos, and using the pour foam will be on there, gauranteed. ;)

[The Stig]

If you guys are doing any volume of foam, it is WAY cheaper to do a two part urethane pour foam, as opposed to the spray foam from the places like Home Cheapo.

The two pound low density foam works fine for most things.

As an aside, as some of you know, I am considerably reworking the GTM body for racing purposes, and the use of these pour foams has been extensive. One of the first "how to" videos I will be trying to get up soon to www.myraceshop.com (http://www.myraceshop.com) will be the body work videos, and using the pour foam will be on there, gauranteed. ;)

Mike,

Does Urethane Pour Foam fill the voids in the same way that the spray foam does? In other words will it expand and fill the empty space of the rocker panels? Or does it rely on gravity to fill the space of whatever opening you use as a "form". Also, what is the set up time for the poured urethane?

Thanks,

[The Stig]

I am considering changing the rear turn signal/reverse lights from amber to red. It seems that I saw a post that had to do with replacement rear lights for the GTM, but I couldn't find it in my searches. Can anyone point me to a website that sells these particular lights? I'd really appreciate the help.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear2.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear1.jpg

Thanks.

[VD2021]

I am considering changing the rear turn signal/reverse lights from amber to red. It seems that I saw a post that had to do with replacement rear lights for the GTM, but I couldn't find it in my searches. Can anyone point me to a website that sells these particular lights? I'd really appreciate the help.

Thanks.

Mike,
Here's a link and a thread. I just wish there was a red with a reverse light or reverse light that could be added that would flow and not look like an after thought.

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=2333

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/42-factory-five-gtm-forum/275489-tail-light-options.html

[Kempo]

I am considering changing the rear turn signal/reverse lights from amber to red. It seems that I saw a post that had to do with replacement rear lights for the GTM, but I couldn't find it in my searches. Can anyone point me to a website that sells these particular lights? I'd really appreciate the help.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear2.jpg


http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMRear1.jpg

Thanks.

I'm doing that same thing on my car. I ordered the red ones from summit. They are $25 each. I wasn't able to find the red one with the reverse on it. What I'm planning on doing is hiding a white reverse light behind the scenes on the exhaust that way the would only be visible when the light up behind the screen.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Mike,

Does Urethane Pour Foam fill the voids in the same way that the spray foam does? In other words will it expand and fill the empty space of the rocker panels? Or does it rely on gravity to fill the space of whatever opening you use as a "form". Also, what is the set up time for the poured urethane?

Thanks,

I would be VERY careful with this. Personally, I would never attempt to seal off the rockers with pour foam. Use the alum close-outs designed for that area. Yes, that stuff is incredibly handy for doing body mods, as that is what I've been doing all this week. Just to give you an idea of why I'm warning you, the area on the body I'm working on required me to make a "form" to pour the foam into on the back side of the body. I made a box out of cardboard that was about 16" wide and 6" tall and 3" deep. I left the top of this box completely open......16"x3"......and taped the box to the body.......so the body itself makes up one of the 16x6 walls. The box was taped pretty securely to the point where I could give it a pretty good tug and it would not budge. Mixed up the foam and poured it into the top of the box, and by the time it was set (about 5 minutes) it had pushed the box off the body about 2". This stuff is able to generate an incredible amount of pressure.....even with the top of the box completely left open.

[The Stig]

I would be VERY careful with this. Personally, I would never attempt to seal off the rockers with pour foam. Use the alum close-outs designed for that area. Yes, that stuff is incredibly handy for doing body mods, as that is what I've been doing all this week. Just to give you an idea of why I'm warning you, the area on the body I'm working on required me to make a "form" to pour the foam into on the back side of the body. I made a box out of cardboard that was about 16" wide and 6" tall and 3" deep. I left the top of this box completely open......16"x3"......and taped the box to the body.......so the body itself makes up one of the 16x6 walls. The box was taped pretty securely to the point where I could give it a pretty good tug and it would not budge. Mixed up the foam and poured it into the top of the box, and by the time it was set (about 5 minutes) it had pushed the box off the body about 2". This stuff is able to generate an incredible amount of pressure.....even with the top of the box completely left open.

That is exactly why I asked the question as to the control-ability of this type of product: Spray foam, or otherwise.

Thanks Shane!

Mike

[crash]

Yep, it will create some pressure, but so will the spray foams from the home improvement stores.

You must either leave space for over expansion, or become very precise in the amount of volume a specific amount of mix will yield.

Only thing I was trying to point out is that you can get about 10 times the foam yield per $$ from the two part pour foams as compared to the spray foams, and the freakin nozel doesn't gum up either!! :)

[kabacj]

I would be VERY careful with this. Personally, I would never attempt to seal off the rockers with pour foam. Use the alum close-outs designed for that area. Yes, that stuff is incredibly handy for doing body mods, as that is what I've been doing all this week. Just to give you an idea of why I'm warning you, the area on the body I'm working on required me to make a "form" to pour the foam into on the back side of the body. I made a box out of cardboard that was about 16" wide and 6" tall and 3" deep. I left the top of this box completely open......16"x3"......and taped the box to the body.......so the body itself makes up one of the 16x6 walls. The box was taped pretty securely to the point where I could give it a pretty good tug and it would not budge. Mixed up the foam and poured it into the top of the box, and by the time it was set (about 5 minutes) it had pushed the box off the body about 2". This stuff is able to generate an incredible amount of pressure.....even with the top of the box completely left open.


Yep, totally agree on the pour foam. Its going to expand to its final volume regardless of if you have allowed enough space. For areas where I want to leverage the sealing properties afforded by polyurethane foam but not deal with the unwanted expansion I use the formula designed for windows and doors. As stated before its more expensive, its many times single use (but if you are liberal with your use of acetone to clean the tube and valve it can be used more then once) but it does seal as desired. In addition to the sound deadening achieved with many of the products mentioned already its key to have an air tight seal between the sound source and the area you are attempting to quiet down. All modern cars are so air tight that pressure relief baffles need to be designed to allow you to slam the doors without generating unpleasant increase in pressure in the cabin.

[VD2021]

Yep, totally agree on the pour foam. Its going to expand to its final volume regardless of if you have allowed enough space. For areas where I want to leverage the sealing properties afforded by polyurethane foam but not deal with the unwanted expansion I use the formula designed for windows and doors. As stated before its more expensive, its many times single use (but if you are liberal with your use of acetone to clean the tube and valve it can be used more then once) but it does seal as desired. In addition to the sound deadening achieved with many of the products mentioned already its key to have an air tight seal between the sound source and the area you are attempting to quiet down. All modern cars are so air tight that pressure relief baffles need to be designed to allow you to slam the doors without generating unpleasant increase in pressure in the cabin.

J,
So the stuff in the can from the hardware store is what you're referring to and should be OK for this? Just double checking. Thanks.

[crash]

I think what kabacj is saying is that he uses the "window and door" expanding foam as it doesn't have the same pressure issues that the gap filling foams do. The foams he is talking about end up staying flexible and soft when cured.

Really, the expansion pressure thing is not an issue with the regular foams as long as you leave a space for the foam to overexpand.

I have raw video of how to work with the pour foam, just give me some time to get something put together, and I will show you what happens...

[kabacj]

J,
So the stuff in the can from the hardware store is what you're referring to and should be OK for this? Just double checking. Thanks.

Correct. Its the garden variety stuff from the Home depot. For example. I wanted to deaden the hollow sound of the doors when they are shut. Part of doing that is adding sound deadening to the skin like most have done. The other thing is to physically take up some of the space to prevent the door from acting like a drum. I filled the slot in the lower section of the doors with the window and door expanding foam. As advertized it did not expand so much as to change the shape of the door in any way. As crash says its softer when its cured then the great stuff normal formula or the two part foams you can mix and pour. Did it work.. I think so. The door sounds much more solid then the untreated door. Anway for 5 bucks it surely does not hurt.

John

[crash]

Here ya go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmpdUjpCyt8

Sorry for the audio, it's blown out, but I just put this together in an hour or so. I think you get the jist of how to use the foam from this.

Also kind of shows you the extremes I am going to with the original GTM body...:D

[stephen]

Great Video - ty

- How does that foam react if it comes in contact with water - meaning - presumably it must be totally sealed if filling a panel void such as a rocker ?

- Stephen

[LCD Gauges]

When you are cutting shells in half, you must know a little something about body work! :eek:

[The Stig]

When you are cutting shells in half, you must know a little something about body work! :eek:

Mike Races cars, Builds Race cars, and on the side he has a real job as well! :)

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Great Video - ty

- How does that foam react if it comes in contact with water - meaning - presumably it must be totally sealed if filling a panel void such as a rocker ?

- Stephen

It's also called "floatation foam", or Marine foam as it is used mostly in boats as a floatation device so your boat doesn't sink if it takes on water. Used for filling pontoons, etc. That should give you a good idea. This applies to the pour foam anyway. Not sure about all of the other varieties.

[crash]

The urethane foam reacts fine with water, i.e. it doesn't, once it is cured. I will say that I have used lumber that was a bit "wet" when I poured this type of foam against it, and the results were that the foam did not cure properly. It remained soft. Once cured though, should be no issues with water. However, UV light does seem to degrade it pretty quickly. In other words, it can't be left where the sun can see it. Also the finish is never smooth, so undercutting and glassing is required if you will be putting it in a place that needs to look finished.

Actually, I know very little about body work as far as making something to the point that it would look good in black showroom paint. I know a bit about where I want to end up, but not a whole lot about how to get there. I am making videos of just that...how to get there, and when to call in a professional.

Unfortunately, the body has taken longer than I anticipated and I am still quite a ways from being finished. I believe I have been working on it for about a year now!!:eek:

I work on it EVERY day, much to my wifes dismay, and I think I have about another six months or so to go. After the body is done, things will start happening quickly. :)

[stephen]

thanks - sounds like just what i need !

Stephen

[The Stig]

Meanwhile... Back at the Ranch... :)

[Stage7]

Stig: Getting back to sound blocking, I would use a combo of:

1) Dynamat type product (my choice is Cascade: light weight and highly effective dampener)
2) 1/4" to 1/2" foam (closed cell is usually cheaper, I haven't seen a difference personally between closed and open cell for sound blocking). Basically the foam
attenuates high frequency sounds, and also acts as an air barrier between the panel and the next, maybe most important piece:
3) Mass loaded vinyl (MLV). This stuff is 1lb per sq ft. You need mass to block sound.

Dynamat dampens the panel it is stuck to, but really doesn't do much to actually block sound. It just helps to stop the panel from resonating and adding harmonics to the noise coming through. MLV will actually block it. I use it in my cars, and in my living room/home theater (along w/green glue and 4 layers of drywall, but that's another topic). The best way to apply it is over a foam which acts as a decoupler, keep cuts to a minimum and use lead tape to seal up seams and air gaps. Even w/out the foam it does a great job of blocking sound transmission. This won't help your back window, but you are completely on the right track by doubling it up with a gap in between. Then seal the edges of the gap around the doubled window.

Even after this, you will have flanking sound coming through the other glass, but it should drop the noise a bunch. Only so much you can do. I dropped over 9db on my Corvette at highway speeds using the above process. I have MLV on both sides of my firewall (under heat coating, but w/out foam on the engine side of course) in my SLC. For me, it's worth the weight penalty since I want it to be comfortable on long trips. Probably overkill though. I should have done one side to see how bad it is, then added another if necessary, but I didn't want to go through the hassle of disassembly for that.

MLV should be ~$1 sq/ft commercially. No need to buy the branded boutique stuff for double or triple.

[stephen]

sorry - for the partial hijack :cool:

Stephen

[mikespms]

re: sound and heat blocking, has any one used lizard skin on their panels or fiberglass iam considering using it for my panels and inner door and rear fiberglass around engine compartment and wheel well area is suposed stand heat to 500 degrees and block sound. it shoud be spryed on both sides of metal panels to 40 mils it sounds good but i am not shure about texture and finish , it sounds like it would work well in the hard to get to areas . cleans up with water easier to use than foam. that cascade mlv sounds good, where can get more info on it thanks mike

[Kalstar]

As for the open area between the rear wheel and firewall, I am using 1" foam Matt (from a fabric store) filling this void tight, then usng the spray foam to fill any voids. The spray foam will expand against the foam matt sealing it off without the risk of over expansion. I am using a spray on Sound damaner eDead on the rest or the panels. Very reasonable cost and I believe will work well at removing the sound created by bare panels.

[The Stig]

The Glass has been installed. The Doors are on. The Hood and Hatch are permanently installed. The Wing has been mounted, but the weight on the rear of the hatch is almost too extreme.

But it looks good.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0199.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0200.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0201.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0202.jpg

Looks like we may have to take another shot at getting the letters spaced correctly.

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0203.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0204.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSCN0205.jpg

[Kempo]

Very nice Stig!!!!!! You are almost there.

[LCD Gauges]

Lovin' the spoiler and the finished look!

[afourcault]

looks good man! im proud of the progress youve made! cant wait.. lol its gonna take 3 years but i figured out how i can afford it and how much my build is gonna cost me! makes my skin itchy with excitment just thinkin about it.

[VD2021]

Mike,
Oh so close.

LOL....Maybe the tech had one foot on a 2x4 that day.

[The Stig]

Mike,
Oh so close.

LOL....Maybe the tech had one foot on a 2x4 that day.

Oh so close? It's an illusion... "Objects in plain view, are further away than they appear"... Seriously though, I have a buddy who may be calling you for some of your wiring expertise before long.

afourcault - I thought I had my budget in check also. I had it set at a point that I figured I could easily complete the car in the way that I wanted to with a little room to spare. I've been able to stick pretty close to my target. However, I had some unexpected expenses recently. So I'm quite a bit past my numbers. So stay on top of it as much as you can, and stick to your plan!

[afourcault]

lol if i cant get it done on my budget than i shouldnt even try.. im planing on over 120k...close to the 130k range... dream big.. pay big thought right? im working on putting together a website for all my ideas so that everyone can help "guide me" with my ideas.. ive got lots of experence in modifying production cars and aircraft but ive never built a car from scratch like this.. honestly im kind of nervous.. but excited none the less

[The Stig]

lol if i cant get it done on my budget than i shouldnt even try.. im planing on over 120k...close to the 130k range... dream big.. pay big thought right? im working on putting together a website for all my ideas so that everyone can help "guide me" with my ideas.. ive got lots of experence in modifying production cars and aircraft but ive never built a car from scratch like this.. honestly im kind of nervous.. but excited none the less

120 to 130k budget... Rock On Garth!!!!

[ArtGirl]

120 to 130k budget... Rock On Garth!!!!

Seriously. Wow. I'm trying to do it for half that number.

[afourcault]

lol my job is desperate for good workers to stay with them.. so i agreeded to sign a 3 year contract with them for a 10% base pay increase and since i work nights there is also a 10% shift differential that i get ontop of my base pay so im making out like a bandit.. although i am now obligated to work 60 hours a week... which i dont mind as im young single with no kids.. oh btw the site is now up although i have lots of content to add to it.. so it may get changed hard core soon(next 72-96 hrs.. depending on my home schedule (helping my gf move/find a place to stay and a new job)

[LCD Gauges]

Seriously. Wow. I'm trying to do it for half that number.

I'm almost embarrassed to admit my budget is a third of that. I hope to get this car rolling for about $40-45K, however that's with me doing
all of the work (including body/paint). Having said that, I picked up a used (base) kit with donor parts for a good price.

I know that once funds allow, I'll want to add a wing and replace the rims with something less "Corvettish".

Hopefully I'll be able to prep the body for a stellar finish. I don't want my car to have a home-paint job appearance, although I
don't expect the quality of Stig's show and shine either! :cool:

[afourcault]

im sure that no matter who does the paint your car will look stellar! and i cant wait to see it!

[VD2021]

I'm almost embarrassed to admit my budget is a third of that. I hope to get this car rolling for about $40-45K, however that's with me doing
all of the work (including body/paint). Having said that, I picked up a used (base) kit with donor parts for a good price.

I know that once funds allow, I'll want to add a wing and replace the rims with something less "Corvettish".

Hopefully I'll be able to prep the body for a stellar finish. I don't want my car to have a home-paint job appearance, although I
don't expect the quality of Stig's show and shine either! :cool:


Don't be. This kit was designed to give the average Guy an opportunity to have a world class super car at a fraction of the cost. As you spend time on the forum you will see that the majority if not all of the current builders are money savvy savers who have saved to be able to experience this. Bypassing borrowing, saving, and selling something just as you did, for a toy such as this and attempting to keep the spending down is what you see most. You're not paying the bank interest or neglecting/under funding your retirement or your kid's college fund for a toy.

If I had the money knowledge I have now 12 or 13 years ago I'd be millionaire right now. No worries thought...I'll get there soon.

I started with a $40k limit in mind. I am doing my body work all the way up to base and clear. With all of the extras I purchased alone the way I am just over $38k right now. I am not counting the tools I've added which I would estimate I've spent at least $2k on so far. I will be over but I don't think I'll break $45k. So your budget is very realistic. Especially if you got a really great deal on the kit. If you have or can learn some skills you can still have a build on a budget, which is more than basic.

[The Stig]

I'd like to ask a favor. I'm missing the electrical plugs for the headlights. Is there anyone who isn't using the head lights from their kit? If so, I'd be interested in buying the plugs from you.

Thanks.

[VD2021]

I'd like to ask a favor. I'm missing the electrical plugs for the headlights. Is there anyone who isn't using the head lights from their kit? If so, I'd be interested in buying the plugs from you.

Thanks.

Mike,
I don't have any extras, but what you need is an H9 female with side clips. http://www.pcsconnectors.com/15393199.aspx

[The Stig]

Mike,
I don't have any extras, but what you need is an H9 female with side clips. http://www.pcsconnectors.com/15393199.aspx

What a difference a day makes:

When I called yesterday, I was told that they didn't sell the plugs separately from the lights; that they came in the box with the light itself. So I called back today to buy the lights, and Brian told me that they did sell them separately.

So I bought them before they changed their minds...

I appreciate the note though. Thanks Vidal.

[The Stig]

Stig,
I used the Quiet Ride on my build. Because it is precut and "engineered" it was easy to install. Is it effective? That's kind of hard to know. My GTM is the only one I've ever been in so I have nothing to compare it to. It is louder than I would have liked but a fair amount of that noise is road noise from the rear tires. I have applied second skin to both sides of the wheel well panels front and rear and that helped a little. I think I am still transferring sound from the rear to the cockpit via the body around the quarter windows. I'm still looking for ideas on that one. I have my air filters near the side intakes and I don't notice any noise from them....Well until I stick my foot in it.
Keith

Keith, Did you use the Factory Five Cold Air Intake, or did you fab your own? I ask because the FFR Intake positions the tube directly in the path of the Gas Tank Filler Necks. Wondered what your work around was.

Thanks,

[kbentzel]

Stig, I put mine together before FFR offered one. I can't tell from the parts catalog what happens with the FFR kit once it makes the 90. I have a short radius silicone 90 after the aluminum 90 that turns down and the filters are mounted right below that. It clears the filler necks but just barely.
Keith

[The Stig]

Stig, I put mine together before FFR offered one. I can't tell from the parts catalog what happens with the FFR kit once it makes the 90. I have a short radius silicone 90 after the aluminum 90 that turns down and the filters are mounted right below that. It clears the filler necks but just barely.
Keith

I thought I had a couple of pictures of this set up from the side, but apparently not... maybe you can see it from this view. The way it falls, it runs straight into the filler neck.


http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/DSC_0497.jpg

[crash]

Damn I love seeing things naked.

That is a beaut you got there Stig.

[kbentzel]

Stig, I looked at mine when I got home. Two things I see. I used 70 deg bends not 90s that let me sneak in between the PCM, the wheel well aluminum and over the fuse box. I think that lets me be a little farther aft missing the filler.
Keith

[VD2021]

Mike,
My CAI has all 90s and I recently redirected my filters to the inner area of the side scoops. What I did was to cleco in the forward wheel well close out panels. Then I had to adjust shorten length of one pipe each side. So that the bend going over the fuel tank cover is aft enough to clear the fueling hose, but forward enough to clear the close out panels. Then the filter was rotated forward to a position just inside of the side scoop louvers. HTHs.

[The Stig]

Damn I love seeing things naked.

That is a beaut you got there Stig.

Thanks for the compliment Mike! I appreciate it. And I agree. I think it looks great!

The "Southerners" here in Charlotte, (there aren't many left), pronounce it as "Nekkid"... ;)

[The Stig]

I'm looking for connectors and/or plugs again. This time for the Blinkers and Fog Lights. Can anyone give anyone give me the correct part numbers for the connectors/plugs used on these lights; and where to buy them... Factory Five said again, that they don't sell them, and I don't see them mentioned in the manual. Getting ready to look again. :)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Parts/LightsBlinkerFog.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTM%20Parts/LightsBlinkersFogLights.jpg

[spytech]

Many of us just use female disconnect connectors that slide over the 'tabs' for the lights for the blinker/parking lights. If I remember right the 18-22gauge female disconnects have a very secure fit. 2100 miles and no problems with mine yet.

[The Stig]

Many of us just use female disconnect connectors that slide over the 'tabs' for the lights for the blinker/parking lights. If I remember right the 18-22gauge female disconnects have a very secure fit. 2100 miles and no problems with mine yet.

Thanks Nathan. Jeff had suggested that last Friday, but I wanted to see if I could find the weather-pack connectors that would fit it. I think it makes sense to use the spade connectors for now, and if I decide to switch them out later, I will.

I think I'm starting to "over think" things a little lately.

Thanks for the tip.

Mike

[The Stig]

I ordered the Complete Quiet Ride system for the GTM. I guess it takes a couple of weeks from order to delivery. But from what I've heard, this solution goes in easily and fairly quickly. So I'm hoping that I can get this installed, and then put an interior in right afterwards. My goal is to have this car finished by the October 7th weekend. We'll see if this happens or not. :)

Those of you who have used the Quite Ride solution in your GTM's; What was the install time? And are there any "Gotcha's" or things that I can resolve while I'm waiting for the kit?

[The Stig]

I'm trying to come up with a list of things that I need to do when I ever get the GTM back into my garage. I know that I need to put the Quiet Ride sound dampener and heat shield, and then the interior. I still have to figure out what to do about the interior for the time being. Or at least until spring or so of next year. I have to get the gauges in. The Oil Pressure & Water Temp gauges are wired (for first start). The others are wired, but just need to be connected. So I need to set up the Gauge panel/pod and get it ready to go in.

I know that there are a lot of things that I am not thinking of. (To be honest, I've been away from the car for too long, and I don't have the list rolling through my head like I normally would). If you guys wouldn't mind, send me your thoughts regarding what the "final punch list" should be.

Thanks,

[spytech]

Is Jeff pretty much delivering you the GTM as it would be at the completion of the assembly portion of the GTM manual, ie: car runs and can be driven, but interior needs to be finished?
After doing sound dampening, heat shielding, carpeting, and suede I would just start going through 'chapter 3 - final assembly' in the manual and start ticking off what has or hasn't been done yet so you have a plan of action.

[The Stig]

Is Jeff pretty much delivering you the GTM as it would be at the completion of the assembly portion of the GTM manual, ie: car runs and can be driven, but interior needs to be finished?


I'm pretty much just thinking out loud... But Yes; When I get the car back, the body, doors, hood, hatch, and glass will be fitted and aligned properly. As well, the mesh, close out panels, and diffuser will be in place.

I will need to install an interior to make it usable. Part of that is the placement and wiring of the Audio Video system, speakers, amp, Reverse camera, etc... (Pioneer AVIC-Z130BT). But that can wait until I do the final interior.

I have been through the manual quite a few times. I have everything that has been completed "marked" as such. So I know what still needs to be done in that regard. (It's a fairly short list). But I also know that there are other things that come into play, that aren't necessarily shown in the manual.

The things that are in my head are things such as Stereo install, Roll bar covers, Headliner (with Dome light), seat belts, (std or 5 pt), console item placement (Start Button, fog/hazard lights, AC/Heater controls, power window buttons, power mirror control), courtesy lights, door jamb switches, etc.



I guess what I was really asking was whether or not you guys were working along to finish your cars up and ran into something that caught you by surprise. I'm trying to avoid having to undo anything if it can be helped.

When I do get it back, I'll need to hit the ground running. There is a very interesting event coming up that I'd really like to be a part of (with the car). So I'm trying to work up a list in the correct sequence that will allow me to work efficiently, and get everything done that I need to. I may or may not have the car back in the next few days... If not, then this is a pointless question anyway. I'll have all the time in the world to worry about it. :)

[spytech]

Ahh, stuff like, installing an external antenna for your radio because the GTM's fiberglass body sucks for reception and your radio probably wont pick up radio waves well otherwise?

[The Stig]

Ahh, stuff like, installing an external antenna for your radio because the GTM's fiberglass body sucks for reception and your radio probably wont pick up radio waves well otherwise?

Yep! Just like that!

I'm planning to use the roll bar covers that Mike & Mike came up with in California. I was wondering whether or not there is an "internal antenna" that I can run up either of the "A-Pillar" roll bars, that is thin enough to be hidden by the cover? If so, would the antenna be able to get good gain or reception for the radio?

I don't think that the fiberglass would block the signal but I wondered about the bars causing some interference... I am also incorporating a GPS/NAV system which will have a SAT/GPS receiver. Could this be used as the radio receiver as well, or is it tuned only to the SAT frequencies?

[LCD Gauges]

This is an area that I'm familiar with (career wise):



I don't think that the fiberglass would block the signal but I wondered about the bars causing some interference...

The cage is not a concern for blocking radio carrier frequencies. It may only be a problem if there was a tight knit mesh grounded
to the roll bars that could block the reception. No worries.


I am also incorporating a GPS/NAV system which will have a SAT/GPS receiver. Could this be used as the radio receiver as well, or is it tuned only to the SAT frequencies?

It's only tuned for SAT frequencies. You'll notice a little cone shaped antenna on the GPS which is made specifically for RF/Microwave range frequencies.

YOu might be able to get away with an internally mounted antenna since the body of the car wont interfere with the signal much; maybe run the antenna
across the top of the windshield, or rear hatch area on the outside face of the roll bar.

[VD2021]

Yep! Just like that!

I'm planning to use the roll bar covers that Mike & Mike came up with in California. I was wondering whether or not there is an "internal antenna" that I can run up either of the "A-Pillar" roll bars, that is thin enough to be hidden by the cover? If so, would the antenna be able to get good gain or reception for the radio?

I don't think that the fiberglass would block the signal but I wondered about the bars causing some interference... I am also incorporating a GPS/NAV system which will have a SAT/GPS receiver. Could this be used as the radio receiver as well, or is it tuned only to the SAT frequencies?

Mike,
I have Mike's roll bar cover and have been looking at radio antenna. There are a few options. There are the standard mask and a few "hidden" styles. Some of the hidden styles have amplifiers. The hidden style also includes the window mounted antenna. The fg body should not block the magnetic energy going to the antenna and the hidden types are designed to maximize their capture of the magnetic energy of the radio waves from non-standard or conceiled placement with in it's design. I am planning to use a standard length mask set inside of some soft foam all inside the center section of the roll bar cover. Mask are designed to work best in a vertical position so I’ll have to see how the reception is at that time and go from there. My next option will like be a window mounted amplified antenna mounted on the rear hatch glass.

Your in dash navigation system’s antenna will be a waterproof antenna and can be mounted inside or outside of the GTM, it will work best outside on the roof. You can mount it inside (which is what I will do) and the dash will be the best location. A GPS antenna can’t see through metal. Also electromagnetic interference will affect reception when mounted in the vehicle. So the windshield cannot have metallic window tint, be solar reflective glass or have a windshield mounted radio antenna.
Another quick note on aftermarket in dash navigation systems; some require a VSS connection. Just a heads up in case your unit requires it. If it does and you do not connect it the navigation will not know the car is moving and will have difficulty tracking the cars position if at all.

[crash]

You people actually still listen to the radio? :cool:

[The Stig]

You people actually still listen to the radio? :cool:

Sirrius Dude...:) AM Talk Radio...

[The Stig]

The DMV inspector came yesterday to do the inspection on the GTM. Everything went well: Except that he wants me to secure a vehicle bond, because the Serial Number of the Engine couldn't be located, and I wasn't issued an MCO (Manufacturers Certificate of Origin) for the Engine or the Transmission.

The Engine (a crate engine) came from GMPP via Thorobred Chevrolet in Chandler, AZ. Apparently they don't issue MCO's for crate engines. The Transmission was a rebuild from Renegade Hybrids. No MCO is issued for rebuilt transmissions. I have the paid invoices that show that I am the legal owner of these pieces, but they still wanted me to secure a Bond. So I did. And now, $700.00 later, I guess we'll be able to get the inspection finalized in the next day or so.

Then I can take all the paperwork down, pay a phe-nominal fee, have it titled, and get the plates. That may not happen for a week though. (Schedules). Keeping my fingers crossed that it gets sorted out soon.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to the Charlotte Cruise-In this weekend at the Quaker Steak & Lube, near Charlotte Motor Speedway.

[Roger Reid]

So what happens to the $700.00. Do you get it back?

[ArtGirl]

The DMV inspector came yesterday to do the inspection on the GTM. Everything went well: Except that he wants me to secure a vehicle bond, because the Serial Number of the Engine couldn't be located, and I wasn't issued an MCO (Manufacturers Certificate of Origin) for the Engine or the Transmission.

Interesting that receipts alone weren't enough. I know it gets you through the inspection, but what does the bond do/ensure?

[Jeff Collins]

Just my opinion but the whole bonding thing to me is a bit of a racket. All the bond does is guarantee a dollar amount of money to pay any potential future claims against the parts used to build your car. The bonding company guarantees that it will pay any claims up to the amount of the bond. The dirty secret is if you use the bond money you have to pay it back to the bond company. It is not like insurance, if you use it you must reimburse the bond company, and if you don't use it you do not get your premium back. So in this case Stig is paying $700.00 to a bond company to guarantee he will pay any claims that may come up during the period of the bond coverage. To prevent this be sure you have a cradle to grave paper trail on your chassis, engine, transmission and rear end. This requires notarized receipts with serial numbers that match your components. If you find a killer deal on used kits or parts be sure to factor in the future cost of a bond into the price if the paper trail is not there. The bond is a tool that we have to use to get some cars registered. My take on it is in most cases it is an expensive piece of paper that greatly benefits the bond company and minimally benefits the guy paying for it.

[crash]

"The bond is a tool that we have to use to get some cars registered. My take on it is in most cases it is an expensive piece of paper that greatly benefits the bond company and minimally benefits the guy paying for it. "

...or anyone else for that matter.

In CA I have run into this problem when registering special construction vehicles. Don't know if anything has changed, but it used to be that ANYTHING with a value that was over $30K, IIRC, had to have a bond posted before DMV would register it.

They take copies of ALL your receipts and do a manual add up right there at the counter.

I always just made sure I had the major receipts there, but also made sure they didn't total more than the amount required for bond, and was fine.

A temp registration was issued, and then I had to take the vehicle to CHP for equipment verification. They just ran the numbers and made sure they didn't come up as stolen, then put the VIN plate on, and away I went.

Maybe this isn't an issue with an SB-100? I don't know. Never done one. Just SPCN. :)

[The Stig]

So what happens to the $700.00. Do you get it back?

Roger, As Jeff said, this is mainly a way to get the car passed. I see it as extortion by the bond company and DMV. Apparently other cars sail through the inspection process with the receipts/invoices. But not this one...

They give you an easier route, but it's up to you as to whether or not you want to pull out the wallet and pay the money or go through the hell of jumping through the hoops ... I could see this situation turning into a real cluster *^&%, and I don't have the patience for it lately. So I paid the extortion fee.

Not real happy about it but it is what it is...

The thing that really bothers me is that I know for a fact that I've seen the laser etched serial number on the block while it was out of the car. My advice to everyone, is to take clear pictures of all of the markings on your engine and transmissions. That way if/when you need to, you'll be able to locate specific markings.

In my case, I was told by Thorobred Chevrolet, that my serial number should be located on the front passenger side of the engine block, just below the head. Unfortunately, it's covered by the belt tensioner bracket that mounts to the upper left side of the water pump. Jeff looked there, but didn't see it.

I'm sort of thinking that I saw it just under the exhaust ports (on the block) on the passenger side. If the inspector could have seen it, I'm thinking that he may have let the transmission pass, and I would have saved $700.00. But then again... Who knows?

To make matters even more interesting, I just found out that I was double billed by the Bond company and by PayPal... And Bank of America's web site is so hosed up right now, I can't get into it to figure out who I need to go to in order to fix it...

[The Stig]

It looks like the duplicate billing was cleared. At least I've only been F*&$#% once... At least it clears a path to have the car registered and street legal soon. I'm pretty happy about that!

[The Stig]

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/jmichaelbaskin/GTMontheDyno.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=eovwIUakKJo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=eovwIUakKJo)

See! The rear wheels do move! It sounds pretty good all revved up!

I didn't know that this video existed...

Not sure who shot it. But it's nice to have.

[crash]

Looks like your car is being used for advertising purposes...without you knowing about it!

Interesting, to say the least.

[The Stig]

Looks like your car is being used for advertising purposes...without you knowing about it!

Interesting, to say the least.

Yep. I don't really mind that they used it, but I would have preferred that they asked first. I guess since they do a lot of work for Jeff, they figured it was his, and that he wouldn't mind...

To be honest, I was kind of bummed that I didn't get a video of it running on the Dyno.

Now I have the video. So life is good.

[VD2021]

Mike,
Just wanted to bump your thread to see if you've any updates.

You're a lucky Man. There can't be many of us that have driven someone elses GTM. But you, my friend have driven two if I'm correct. Can you mail me a years supply of what it is you're using? :)

[The Stig]

Mike,
Just wanted to bump your thread to see if you've any updates.

You're a lucky Man. There can't be many of us that have driven someone else's GTM. But you, my friend have driven two if I'm correct. Can you mail me a years supply of what it is you're using? :)

Believe me, If I could bottle what ever it is, I'd never have to work another day of my life as a software consultant...

But you're right; I truly am a lucky man. But not for the reasons that you think. I am just truly blessed. My wife and I celebrated our wedding anniversary this weekend, and I have to say, it reminded me of what is important in my life. We take every day as though it could be the last, because we're not guaranteed anything, and we just like being together and doing many of the same things. I still can't believe that she's so into these FFR cars, but she is. Life is good.

As for my being able to drive a couple of the GTM's on the forums, that's more about the kindness and generosity of the people who owned them. I've found that there are some really good people here (and elsewhere). I've also seen that they are very willing to share their "hobby" with others. Allan Uzwiak, and Gary Cheney are certainly those kind of people.

I said some time ago, that when I ever finish my car, I will be happy to pay that same kindness and enthusiasm forward. It's almost impossible to understand exactly what it is that you're building, until you're behind the wheel, and have your foot on the gas pedal. Once you've felt that, your whole perspective of the GTM really gets focused! At least that's how it happened for me.

One of my Cobra buddies recently moved to Raleigh, from the Cornelius, NC area. I'll be looking him up, to let him drive the GTM before long. I'll also be making a trip back up to Greensboro to repay the favor to Jim Maxwell for letting me drive his 427 Cobra recently.

Pam and I are still planning to come down to Orlando before long. Hopefully we can get together over dinner, and compare notes.

Take care Vidal!

[VD2021]

Believe me, If I could bottle what ever it is, I'd never have to work another day of my life as a software consultant...

But you're right; I truly am a lucky man. But not for the reasons that you think. I am just truly blessed. My wife and I celebrated our wedding anniversary this weekend, and I have to say, it reminded me of what is important in my life. We take every day as though it could be the last, because we're not guaranteed anything, and we just like being together and doing many of the same things. I still can't believe that she's so into these FFR cars, but she is. Life is good.

As for my being able to drive a couple of the GTM's on the forums, that's more about the kindness and generosity of the people who owned them. I've found that there are some really good people here (and elsewhere). I've also seen that they are very willing to share their "hobby" with others. Allan Uzwiak, and Gary Cheney are certainly those kind of people.

I said some time ago, that when I ever finish my car, I will be happy to pay that same kindness and enthusiasm forward. It's almost impossible to understand exactly what it is that you're building, until you're behind the wheel, and have your foot on the gas pedal. Once you've felt that, your whole perspective of the GTM really gets focused! At least that's how it happened for me.

One of my Cobra buddies recently moved to Raleigh, from the Cornelius, NC area. I'll be looking him up, to let him drive the GTM before long. I'll also be making a trip back up to Greensboro to repay the favor to Jim Maxwell for letting me drive his 427 Cobra recently.

Pam and I are still planning to come down to Orlando before long. Hopefully we can get together over dinner, and compare notes.

Take care Vidal!

Mike,
Blessed and favor.


Just let me know when you’re going to be in the area and we’ll make it happen. I’ll also do the same for you when I make it back up to Greensboro.

[The Stig]

Mike,
Blessed and favor.


Thanks Buddy!