Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report [Archive] - Page 3

edwardb

01-26-2019, 04:47 PM

Been a while since my last update. But working on getting all the wiring done and everything tested. Good news. As of this morning, I’m mostly done. Temporarily hooked up all the lights and went through every combination I could think of without the engine running, and then again with the engine running. All the lights, horn, turn signals, hazards, brake lights, back-up lights, switches, gauges, accessories, everything, all work as they’re supposed to. Can’t find any faults at this time. So I’ll get things cleaned up and move on. Final electrical will be when the body is on. Then can get the final length on the lighting cables and add connectors. Same for the wipers. That should go quickly. In previous updates, I already described having the main chassis, power, under hood including Coyote, and gauge cluster wired. What remained was the cockpit and everything that goes on there. Took longer than I expected but what’s new. As has been mentioned several times, my goals here are to keep everything as neat and serviceable as possible while maintaining as much open space as possible for the heat/A-C ducting. I think it’s going to work.

This was little over a week ago:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101281&d=1548528924

Now essentially completed and looks like this. The loose wires on the right are the wipers, washer, and RH footwell light. All tested but not tied down yet. Will be once the body is on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101283&d=1548528941

Closer view. Visible here, left to right at the top, are relays for the headlight reminder and fog lights, headlight module, keyless start module, T-56 reverse lock-out module, and ground bus bar. At the bottom (right behind the switches) the Watson’s Streetworks headlight reminder and the Cole Hersee wiper/washer switch. Couple words about the relays. One has sense wires from the headlight switch and the ignition switch. If the ignition is off and the headlight switch is on, it powers the reminder which lights and beeps until you do something. The fog light relay has a sense wire from the headlight switch and allows the fog lights to only be powered on when the headlight switch is in the first or second position. So you could leave the fog light switch on all the time, and they would go off and on with the headlight switch. Most DD’s are wired this way. The Cole Hersee wiper switch I’ve talked about before. Also works basically like a DD. Push and you get washer and a few swipes of the wiper. Turning it on, it has a range of intermittent speeds, then a low and high setting. Works really well. The A/C switch, fan, and temp controls are placed here instead of the using the separate panel from Factory Five. The switches need to be labelled. Looking for some options for stick-on icons, or maybe have the knobs engraved or laser etched. Haven’t looked real hard yet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101284&d=1548528950

This is a little bit of a busy picture, but shows the connections to the Russ Thompson turn signal using 2-pin and 3-pin AMP connectors. The 2-wire is the momentary switch which give flash-to-pass and normal low-high beam function. The 3-wire is for turn signals. The bumps in the line are diodes because my hazard switch is only a single pole. Based on changes I made, none of the turn signal, hazard, or headlight wiring is in the dash harness any longer except for the indicator lights. Made things a bit simpler. The two larger connectors are for the gauge panel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101282&d=1548528933

This is all the wire that was removed from the RF and Coyote harnesses. Plus a few of the wired accessories, but mostly from the harnesses. Makes me tired looking at it. But done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101285&d=1548528958

A few words about some of the major wiring. The heated seats from Corbeau had several feet of unneeded wire harness length plus multiple connectors. Slimmed it down to just what was needed. The connectors under the seats that hook each one up. Then the connectors in the center panel to the switches. Everything else is shortened and hard wired. Not complicated, but exceptionally tedious because all but the main power and ground were tiny delicate wires. I don’t have a schematic, but pretty sure they’re for the relay box under the seat for the high and low settings. But done and works. Took both seats for a test drive.

Spent a lot of time getting the heat/A-C system wired up and checked up. There’s a harness in the engine compartment to be made connecting the trinary switch on top of the receiver/drier, the compressor clutch, and the heater control valve. Those hook up in the cockpit with the evaporator fan, thermostat, and control knobs and switch. The instructions from Factory Five are very thorough and detailed (100+ pages for everything) but when it came to the wiring I found them slightly confusing. I did most of my work from the schematic versus multiple pages of hooking this color to that color. Especially since I changed things up a bit so the harness was a little more hidden. Happy to report that when it was all wired everything worked. Mostly. Ran the engine long enough to get some temp in the coolant and had heat. I didn’t expect the A-C system would cool because it isn’t charged. But panicked some that turning the system on didn’t start the compressor. Checked and double checked my wiring, and popped a fuse sticking a probe in the wrong place. (oops) About 2 minutes searching on Google demonstrated that I’m about the only person on the planet apparently that doesn’t know that the trinary switch won’t let the compressor start if there’s no pressure in the system, e.g. at least a partial charge. My complete lack of experience in this area shows big time. But I did confirm I have +12V on one side of the trinary switch so the A-C switch is working. Also confirmed if I put +12V directly on the compressor clutch wires it clicks on and off. Confirmed as well the compressor clutch resistance and current draw are in spec. So I’m sure it will work once it’s charged. Thinking about buying the gear to do that myself (more learning and less outside hands on my build) but not sure. Plenty of time to decide.

I saved wiring the keyless push button start system until last. I wanted to make sure everything else worked exactly right since several have indicated some challenges with systems like this. Not necessarily this brand, but these systems in general. Nothing worse than chasing multiple electrical gremlins at the same time. Plus it was just easier to switch a key on and off while doing all the wiring, testing, etc. Anyway, with everything else done and working, went for it. I described before why I selected the Digital Guard Dawg PBS-1 system and that I had played around with it on the bench to confirm it worked plus had the lead connections all mapped out. So it was pretty easy to remove the ignition key and re-route the wires to the system. Basically, it has the same wires as the regular ignition key: Battery, accessory, ignition, and start. The PBS-1 has an additional accessory lead that I used to power my USB auxiliary port (through a circuit breaker), needs a couple grounds, and also needs a lead from the brake switch. With everything wired up, followed the instructions for start-up and checkout, and all good. Works exactly as it’s supposed to. Really happy with it. It’s basically the same as the pushbutton start in our Durango and I think most other DD’s with this feature. When it comes into range from the key fob, there’s a light in the start button. Without doing anything, one push for accessory one, second push for accessory two, third push for ignition on, and fourth push it turns back off. At any time, with your foot on the brake, the light starts blinking and pushing the button starts the engine. I would say the only thing that’s slightly different from our DD is for this system you also have to push the brake down to stop the engine. Makes sense since our Durango must be in park for the button to shut it off. Same idea and accommodates the aftermarket for either manual or automatic transmissions. The other feature I decided I like is the key fobs can be either in manual or automatic mode. Automatic is the usual function of getting in range and the systems automatically unlocks and is ready to start. Manual means you have to push a button on the key fob to lock or unlock the system. The instructions recommend leaving it in manual while doing the build and maybe even later when working on it, at a car show, whatever. The range is pretty long. What I found is if the key fob is in the garage, the system is unlocked. Not as finely tuned as our Durango, where you have to basically be in the driver’s seat before the start button is active. But then you’re talking a universal system versus one that’s tuned for a specific vehicle. Anyway, really happy with how it works and I highly recommend if you’re looking for this function. Not cheap, but how many times have I said that? I’m using the simple start only PBS-1 model. They have other models that do more, like locking/unlocking doors, etc.

edwardb

01-26-2019, 04:49 PM

This build will have windshield washers as I’ve mentioned before. I’ve managed to skate by the police safety inspection on this one on previous builds. Charitable officers have checked the box even though I haven’t installed them before. So went for it this time. The wiper switch I’ve mentioned integrates it easily and uses the same power as the wipers. For some time now, I’ve been looking for a tank and pump system I thought would work. I don’t expect to use it much, so don’t need a big reservoir plus space is limited. Plus from what I could see, many of the aftermarket tank and pump systems looked really cheap and of marginal quality. Or are purpose made for vehicles in all kinds of crazy shapes. After a bunch more searching this week, pushed the order button on a 060800-0550 Denso Heavy Duty Windshield Washer Kit. Denso is one of the world’s largest automotive suppliers (my former company competed with them, or tried to) and makes quality parts. So hoped this was better than your average aftermarket product. Listed lots of places, but Amazon had them so bought it there. Interestingly, shipped from an RV supply store and learned this setup is widely used on certain RV’s. There were no dimensions on any listings that I could find. But comparing to other units, looked smaller than average, so took a chance. Arrived today and I think it’s going to be perfect. The tank is 5-1/2” wide, 7” tall, and 3-1/2” deep and holds slightly less than 2 quarts. Fits right where I was hoping it would fit. On the lower RH side of the firewall. Seems like a heavy duty and well-made piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101286&d=1548528968

Something else I’ve been looking at and researching is side mirrors. One common feedback I get about the Daytona Coupe, Factory Five and otherwise, is rear vision isn’t the best. The single bullet mirror in the kit is maybe legal but less than what I want. Another build thread mentioned side mirrors from Peter Brock. (https://bre2.net/) Looked at those plus other builds and other options. Finally decided to go with the mirrors from Peter. Again, not cheap (yet again??) but couldn’t find any that I liked better and kind of cool to have something from him on my build. The mirror body can optionally be painted body color. Will see about that. He recommends leaving the stalk and mount satin black as they come. Liked how they came with backing plates to go inside the doors where they attach. Little concerned about the width since they stick out quite a bit, and my trailer (when used) isn't very wide. But now that I have them, looks like I could fold them back if necessary. Anyway, quality looks great and should be another nice and very functional addition.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101288&d=1548535657

With all the progress, do have a couple issues to deal with. I noticed a couple days after the first start I had a few drops of power steering fluid on the floor. Have been watching it. Not a gusher, but definitely wet most of the time from the pulley bearing location and occasionally enough to drip. Talked to KRC, and looks like it’s going to have to go back for warranty repair or replacement. I mentioned the Honda power steering fluid and he said they’ve had a couple examples of that fluid being corrosive. Haven’t heard that from anyone else plus I’ve used it successfully in #8674 with zero issues. But he also said the newer aluminum pump for this build has a different seal than the older steel pump. It will go back and maybe I’ll switch to their fluid. The other issue is I’ll be sending my PCM back to Ford. The MIL doesn’t work. With an MIL ON indication seen by scanning the ODB2 port, the light isn’t on. Received word a few days ago that their engineers agree it’s not working on the Gen 3 Coyote crate. So they’ll ask for the PCM back once they have the program updated. This will be second turnaround on the PCM. Had another minor issue right after I installed it which they resolved and turned around the next day. I found out from talking to them the other day I have serial number one of the production Gen 3 Coyote crates. I asked if I should be excited or nervous. The answer was excited of course. There were several that went out before mine. But they were to the press, etc. and not actual customer deliveries. In the same conversation though they confirmed my PCM is the latest version (they call it a calibration) so whatever issues I might be having (or success, e.g. first start) are the same as everyone else. Will get resolved. I’m not too worried about either issue and now is the time to get that stuff sorted out.

That’s it finally. I have a list of minor things to wrap up. Then will start body fitting. Looking forward to getting to that stage.

Matt K.

01-26-2019, 05:43 PM

Outstanding job on the wiring Paul. A first class job.

frd2

01-26-2019, 07:39 PM

I charged my ac system by borrowing the gauges and vac pump from autozone. Worked fine.

edwardb

01-26-2019, 07:51 PM

I charged my ac system by borrowing the gauges and vac pump from autozone. Worked fine.

Great suggestion. I hadn't thought of those being in their tool program. I'll check into that before doing anything. Thanks.

frd2

01-26-2019, 08:13 PM

Make sure u know the proper amount of oil to add if you do it.

GoDadGo

01-26-2019, 08:22 PM

The more work you do on this car, the less likely I feel like I'll ever tackle one.
Great Work As Always & I'm Sure It Will Be A Show Stopper!
Steve

Fisher Lake Hot Rods

01-26-2019, 09:00 PM

Your updates are fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to document the build. It is very helpful.

edwardb

01-26-2019, 09:20 PM

The more work you do on this car, the less likely I feel like I'll ever tackle one.
Great Work As Always & I'm Sure It Will Be A Show Stopper!
Steve

Hey Steve. I must be doing something wrong. :o Not that hard really. Actually I don't think any harder than the Roadster. Just more to do if you option it out and overcomplicate it like I tend to do. I enjoy trying new things and learning with each build. Stay inside the lines a little more and you wouldn't have any trouble. Not that you would anyway.

wareaglescott

01-27-2019, 07:16 AM

Great update Paul. Looking good. Interesting about the PCM having to go back again.

edwardb

01-29-2019, 10:13 AM

Mentioned in the last update that my KRC PS pump is leaking a bit at the pulley shaft seal. Yesterday removed it and purged all the lines and will get it shipped today. Was harder to remove than it was to install when the engine was sitting uninstalled on the stand, that’s for sure. But no big deal. They’ve been great so far and said it would be repaired or replaced under warranty. At KRC’s suggestion, I’m going to switch to their PS fluid instead of the Honda fluid I’ve used in the past. Nothing else to say about that until it’s back. Not holding up a thing at this point.

With that done, was wrapping up some details in the cockpit and planning to permanently attach the fixed top portion of the footboxes. Note there’s nothing in the instructions about making the top of the footboxes removeable. But with the evaporator and related under the PS, and the master cylinders, wiring, etc. under the DS, highly recommend it. Early on, I decided to split the top covers and make the back part that’s under the body cowl fixed, and the front part removable. Like this, early in the build before powder coat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83962&d=1523461262

While getting things together to rivet the pieces on, noticed a telltale drop of fluid on the floor of the DS footbox. Closer check confirmed brake fluid. Ugh. With a little bit of checking, could see the boot on the front master cylinder (.75 diameter) was wet. Ugh again. Pulled the boot back and it was full of brake fluid. Great. Have to get that fixed, obviously, so out came the master cylinder. Could have done it of course with the fixed portion of the top cover installed. But easier now. I love building things the first time. Not so much tearing things back apart and fixing. Especially with my arch-nemesis brake fluid, brake bleeding, etc. But kept things reasonably neat and it’s out. Fluid was clearly leaking out the front into the boot. It’s all held to together with a single snap ring, so decided to take it apart and see if anything was obviously wrong. Short answer, no. Looks brand new. Which it basically is. As far as I can tell, the front seal apparently failed, was damaged during assembly (even though I can’t see anything), or who knows what else. Maybe either Wilwood or Factory Five would replace it. But it has been over a year and they’re on each coast. The Wilwood part number of the kit including the master cylinder is 260-10372. Little over $80 at Summit. Upon review, they sell a repair kit, 260-10514, that includes literally every single piece except the master cylinder housing itself. The seals themselves, the likely culprit, are already assembled onto the provided new piston, so seems like it would be hard to mess anything up. Without any damage or wear that I can see to the bore of the cylinder, at $24 seems the way to go. So, have it on the way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101400&d=1548774060

I’ll try to make some progress in other areas without taking any more steps back. Crazy cold here now, like much of the country I guess, and just received our largest snow of the season yesterday. But shop stays warm enough so onward.

Jeff Kleiner

01-29-2019, 10:39 AM

Well darn, none of that is any fun but I guess you have to look for a silver lining and at least be somewhat grateful that the PCM, PS pump and master cylinder issues are all happening simultaneously rather than one after the other. Step away, stay warm and re-energize while you wait for the parts to arrive :)

Cheers,
Jeff

P100DHG

01-29-2019, 11:52 AM

edwardb

01-29-2019, 12:46 PM

I'd like to to see if Factory Five or Wilwood would back this up. I would expect that they would. This is clearly a manufacturers defect or workmanship issue. Even if it wasn't expressly in the warranty I'd imagine from a customer service standpoint they would back it up. I had a conversation with Sally about this exact type of scenario a month ago. Factory Five builds are akin to high end hot rods in that they take years to complete. Asking them to warranty it after 10 years might be unreasonable, but you've kept a steady clip going and your efforts show. I think you should hit them up.

I hear you. Nothing I said is meant to be negative towards Factory Five or Wilwood. Stuff like this happens, and I suspect Factory Five would have replaced the MC had I asked. My experience with their customer service has always been top notch. Coincidentally, I asked a couple technical questions earlier in the day yesterday and received a quick and professional response. Before discovering the MC issue last night. I've never been accused of being particularly patient. After looking at the repair kit last night, hit the order button and moved on. Decided it would be easier anyway because I don't have to mess with the adapter fitting or cut the pushrod again. It's already on the way and will be here in the morning. I needed some other stuff from Summit anyway. :o

BadAsp427

02-03-2019, 12:27 PM

Paul, everything you do is just amazing...

Fixit

02-03-2019, 05:18 PM

edwardb

02-03-2019, 06:33 PM

Too bad about the MC... but a rebuild kit seems to be the way to go.
A couple of tips for reassembly from a guy who has rebuilt more than a few MC's and wheel cylinders:
- Check the edge of the bore. Many times there is a slight burr that gets missed after machining. This will instantly wreck the lip on the piston seals. If you can snag your fingernail on it, it needs attention.
- All parts need to be super-extra clean
- Use only brake fluid as an assembly lube
- No tools sliding the piston in, just fingers working the seal lip in the hole.

Thanks for the tips. The MC is all back together couple days ago, installed in the build, bled, and working as it should with no signs of leaking. Obviously I'll keep an eye on it, but I'm optimistic it's fixed. Have done this before too, so did what you described. I cleaned the housing thoroughly, and examined it very carefully including under low magnification. Looked absolutely perfect with not a mark, scratch, or burr anywhere. The rebuild kit contained literally every part except the housing itself. The piston had the front and rear seals already installed. After looking those pieces over carefully and making sure they were clean, assembled with brake fluid and installed the c-clip. I did use the old pushrod since it was already shortened as is typically necessary. Everything else was the new parts. Installation and bleeding was uneventful with a hard pedal and all working as it should.

I spent some time looking at the old parts, focusing on the rear seal on the piston since that was the likely culprit for the leak. The outer surface of the seal, where it contacts the bore of the MC looked fine including a close up view with a jewelers loupe. I removed the seal from the piston and again under very close review did find an area on one of the inside diameter surfaces about 3/8-inch long that was rough with a slight amount of material missing. Like it didn't quite fill the mold when made. Tried to take a picture, but using my iPhone like all the other pictures I've posted, not easy to see. Not an expert on such things (to say the least) but looks like this surface would be providing the seal against the groove in the piston. The rear seal wouldn't have high pressure like the front one, but clearly would have fluid against it as the piston is returning to the rest position against the c-clip. So if not sealing properly, would expect some seepage like I experienced. At this point, I'm thinking this was the problem. Assuming I don't see any more leaks, case closed for me.

Fixit

02-03-2019, 07:55 PM

It's always a good feeling when you've discovered the fault... not just "throw parts at it".

Dave Howard

02-04-2019, 02:19 PM

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29891-Brakes-Gone!&highlight=Brake+problem

Sounds like a similar issue. Any chance Wilwood is outsourcing off shore?

edwardb

02-04-2019, 02:35 PM

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29891-Brakes-Gone!&highlight=Brake+problem

Sounds like a similar issue. Any chance Wilwood is outsourcing off shore?

Hard to say. I remember that thread. Was kind of all over the place, but started with the pedal going to the floor. Mine never did that. Just leaked enough to fill the boot over a period of several months. No real fix was identified in that thread other than the MC was replaced. I'm not aware of any outsourcing by Wilwood, but then I'm not in a position to know either. 99% certain my issue was a short shot on the rear seal when it was molded, as I described. Not excusing it because Wilwood is supposed to be a premium brand. But stuff like that happens.

Jeff Kleiner

02-04-2019, 02:57 PM

...But stuff like that happens.

Yes it does...and it's really inconvenient when it happens during a 3 day build at the SEMA show :( Tried to rob one from a display at the Wilwood booth but no luck so had to do a FedEx overnight.

Jeff

Dave Howard

02-06-2019, 06:45 AM

But stuff like that happens.

Maybe on a 1972 Ford Pinto. But in this "Make it Great Again " era, I would expect better quality from a company like Wilwood. It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has has a new master cylinder failure.

edwardb

02-06-2019, 09:27 PM

Maybe on a 1972 Ford Pinto. But in this "Make it Great Again" era, I would expect better quality from a company like Wilwood. It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has has a new master cylinder failure.

You get the last word. Feel free to start a new thread if you want to discuss Wilwood further. Now back to the build thread.

edwardb

02-06-2019, 09:29 PM

It’s been a busy week bouncing around finishing up two pages of details prior to starting body fitting. I promise I won’t go through every detail! So far the front master cylinder fix described before is holding. No signs of any leaks. Had a nice talk with the folks at KRC about my power steering pump. They ran it through a series of tests, and it passed with no signs of leaking at the pulley bearing seal. However they did find it was leaking at the top (return) hose connection and explained this was running down and appearing like it was coming from the pulley bearing area. Seems the -6AN male connection on the tank was cross threaded, and likely the connector from my hose wasn’t make a good seal. So mark that one down to user screw-up. They chased the threads and said their connector went on OK and it passed tests without leaking. Received it back today. Quick service and turnaround. I’m impressed. Installed it today, filled with fluid and tested. Needless to say, I was very careful attaching that top hose this time. Best I can tell after extensive running, no leaks. I switched to KRC PS fluid at their recommendation.

Finished the wiring in the cockpit and engine compartment. Now the only thing left really are the lights once the body is installed and put a connector on the wiper wiring when it’s installed. I have the washer bottle mounted and wired. Footwell courtesy lights wired. Tied down all the loose cables and made the last holes through the firewall. Installed the fixed panel on the passenger side footbox. I’m going to wait on the drivers side just a little longer. Installed the drain hoses for the evaporator in the passenger side footbox. Most of the time spent was installing all the hoses for the heat/A-C. I tried multiple arrangements and finally came up with one that fit. In hindsight, I was greedy adding the two center dash louvers plus the glovebox. If I hadn’t installed the wiring the way I did, minimized and tied back as much as possible, never would have fit all those hoses in there. As it was, just made it. There are two outlets on the evaporator. I have the passenger side dash louver and both defrosters on one. The two center and driver’s side dash vent on the other. Wasn't my original plan. But with everything else going on behind the dash, the only combination I could make work. There are no valves anywhere in the system. It’s a simple and basic setup as I’ve described before. But the style louvers provided in the kit, plus I bought two more that matched, https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vta-499193, easily flip open and closed. So this provides a low tech way to control things a little.

With that, completely assembled everything in the cockpit for final checkout and prepared for body fitting. Once I confirm the fit of the instrument panel front to the body, I’ll remove it and the transmission tunnel covers and get them to the interior shop for covering. I’d do them myself, but I want some red stitching to go along with the stitching in the seats. No way for me to do that myself. Just an aside comment FWIW: I’m very happy with how the dash and related turned out. I’m anxious to see the final look with the covering and stitching. But just a warning. Between the wiring, the heat/A-C hoses, my custom switch panel, the glovebox, my desire to have the fasteners all hidden, plus putting the gauge panel behind the dash instead of on the front, it’s labor intensive! A lot of time was spent figuring it out, and while it will come apart in the future if necessary, I really hope it won’t be. If I had to do it over again, I’d probably put the gauge panel on the outside and use the kit provided brow piece. That would eliminate a lot of complexity. I don’t regret what I did. But for those following who might think how I did it is a good idea, that’s fine. Just be prepared to spend way more time. This is a big example of how a 200+ hour kit build turns into much more than that. I have a new appreciation for those who really color outside the lines and completely re-design the dash.

For some pictures, last ones of the cockpit wiring I promise. This is 100% done. You may notice the knobs are missing from my control panel. They’re at Watson’s Streetworks getting icons laser etched into them. I just approved the artwork. Will be a nice touch. Sorry about the bad lighting. It was a sunny day and streaming through the window. For winter in Michigan, it’s a nice change and I’m not complaining.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101821&d=1549503426

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101822&d=1549503433

This is how I installed the drain hoses for the evaporator. I tucked them in a little more than what Factory Five shows in their instructions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101827&d=1549503528

Finally, several pictures of the now complete cockpit, minus wrap and stitching and the glovebox door. I know I've posted pictures similar to this before. But now it's alive and everything works.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101823&d=1549503476

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101824&d=1549503484

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101825&d=1549503492

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=101826&d=1549503499

One more small thing to do (assuming nothing else leaks!) and then body fitting starts. That should be in my next update.

Papa

02-06-2019, 09:44 PM

She's looking great, Paul. I can't wait to see the body go on!

Dave

CVOBill

02-07-2019, 08:01 AM

Looks great Paul.

Higgybulin

02-07-2019, 08:38 AM

Very nice!!

Paul2STL

02-07-2019, 05:41 PM

Great job as always. Man you take that over to Vanguard Motors when you are done they'll sell it for 200k I'm sure, after seeing what they want for that SEMA build LOL. That guy had some interesting comments to say the least. You are doing a awesome job of posting details just like your other builds.

TheBabyBadger

02-07-2019, 06:14 PM

Gorgeous, sir! Amazing!

P100DHG

02-07-2019, 07:57 PM

Love the glove box. Carries the dash over to the passenger side and really helps out that blank space. Beautiful.

Paul Mischenko

02-09-2019, 11:53 AM

Paul, As my 20th Ann Roadster is still with the painter, I had to some time to read through your build post. Your quality and attention to detail is really first rate. You're 20th Ann build thread was a massive help with my current build... This will only inspire me to think about another! Congrats and Thanks again.

edwardb

02-12-2019, 11:44 PM

I said the next update would be with the body on. I guess I lied. Decided before I did that to complete my first alignment. Although not as much the case with the Coupe as it is for the Roadster, easier to do the alignment with the body off versus on. At least the first time when large adjustments are typically needed. Plus doing the alignment helps to make sure the wheels are sitting in the wheel openings properly. First up was taking it off the lift and having on the ground for basically the first time. Ran the engine and drove it back and forth in the garage several times. Probably 8 feet or so each way. Engine is running good. Nothing leaking (finally). The Tilton HRB feels great. Nice smooth and predictable clutch release. Brakes work. T-56 shifts easily. All good, so feeling happy about that. With solid ice and snow outside, and still plenty of winter to go no matter what the groundhog says, does this qualify as my go-kart drive? I’m guessing not.

As an aside comment, also have some motivation to move things around. Ford Performance asked if they could display my Roadster in their booth at the Detroit Autorama in a couple weeks. I had it at Autorama two years ago right after it was finished. But wasn’t planning to go again until the Coupe is done. But it’s a nice opportunity and nothing to do other than show up with the car. No display to set up, carpet, stanchions, etc. So need to get it detailed a bit plus will take the chance to do winter maintenance. Plus we're planning to go to the Texas show in April, so need to be ready for that too. Haven’t touched it since it was parked at the end of the driving season. So put the Roadster up on the lift and moved the Coupe over one bay. Plus got the back half of the body out of where I was storing it and completed final prep prior to fitting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102101&d=1550030056

First up for the alignment was ride height. The instruction manual says to start with 4-1/2 inches front and back. That strikes me as high and I already know from a little mocking up that leaves a fairly large gap between the top of the wheels and the body. After some experimentation, I’m starting at a little over 3-1/2 in the front and 4 in the back. See how that looks with the body on plus will watch how much it settles. Easy enough to adjust further as needed. Looks low and sinister now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102102&d=1550030065

Next up was the actual alignment. I’ve been doing my own alignments since my first build. My go-to tool was mainly my SPC Performance FasTrax camber caster gauge. Used strings for my first alignment and then later added Heidts TA-003 alignment plates. Used a couple layers of trash bags for turns plates. Several months ago, decided to sell the FasTrax and picked up a Longacre 78298 caster camber gauge. It’s digital and all around a much more substantial tool. Comes with a hard case as well. While shopping for that, saw the Longacre 78318 chassis height checker, and decided I needed that too. Beats the wood blocks I’ve been using. About halfway through the alignment on the Coupe, decided it was finally time to retire my trash bags and get some real turn plates. Decided on QuickTrick 60004 turn plates, which arrived today. It just didn’t make sense to be splitting hairs with the digital gauge and estimating the caster turn out/turn in with a protractor. Was a good decision. The Longacre instructions say getting the angles wrong while measuring caster can affect the accuracy quite a bit. I could see that on the digital gauge as I was turning the wheel. Stopping right on the exact mark makes a difference. I feel like I now have a quality set of tools to do a reasonably precise alignment. I know I spent the last hour splitting the tenths of a degree the Longacre digital gauge shows. The precision is there and seems very repeatable.

For those that don't know, doing your own alignment isn't hard. The tools I've added make it easier and I think a bit more accurate. But simple tools are quite acceptable. There is a learning curve though and it can be a little frustrating. The settings all interact to some degree. So especially at first when large changes are needed things change a lot. Change the camber, the caster changes. Change the caster, the toe-in changes. And so on. You have to keep going around and around checking each measurement. Eventually they start getting close and the interaction is much less. But it can be frustrating and it's not a quick process. A full 4-wheel alignment isn't cheap at a shop, and there's a reason. Even with the equipment they have. That's assuming you can find a place that's familiar with these and that you trust. I'm happy doing it myself and the equipment pays for itself IMO.

Couple pics. The caster/camber gauge. The Factory Five rims aren’t real friendly to mount the gauge. The FasTrax was the same way. I put dots of Gorilla tape where it contacts the rims and held in place with a bungee cord. Worked well actually. The turn plate is also visible in this pic.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102104&d=1550030081

This is one of the toe plates. Starting to look a little rusty, but still work fine. I use a Bosch laser level instead of strings to make sure the alignment is parallel to the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102105&d=1550030089

This is the chassis height checker. Cool little tool and not very expensive. Reach it under the chassis, slide the button, and read the measurement. Nice.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102099&d=1550030042

Started with the rear suspension and thought I had it done until I realized I had set the PS with positive camber instead of negative. I was reading the gauge wrong. Duh. Fixed that and everything else went fine. Final alignment numbers: Rear -0.6 camber, 1/8 total toe-in. Front +8 caster, -0.5 camber, 3/32 total toe-in. I didn’t have to modify the adjuster sleeve to get the +8 caster. In fact, a few threads are showing on each end. I wonder if Factory Five changed the Gen 3 Coupe a little since power steering is more common now? I don’t know, but I checked it multiple times to make sure I had it right. I’ll be watching the ride height and alignment as the build finishes up. But should go pretty quickly to tweak it as needed versus the time necessary for the first time.

That’s it. Next update really will be with body fitting underway.

edwardb

02-15-2019, 12:26 PM

Couple buddies dropped over the other night, and around an hour plus of shop talk, spent the five minutes needed to drop the front and rear body pieces onto the chassis. Both pieces slide into place easily, but extra hands are pretty important. Hard to say too much about the fit at this point as I’m just getting started. But looks decent. The instructions say to not have these aluminum pieces in place when dropping on the main body section: Rear outside cockpit corners, hatch area side walls, and hatch area rear wall. Agree with two of them. But didn’t see any reason why the hatch area side walls couldn’t be in place before setting the body on. Only have them cleco’d just in case, but they don’t get in the way at all. In fact, makes it easier IMO because gives the rear part of the body something to rest on. Would be a pain if it was just flopping around. Your experience may vary but take a look at that.

I studied the Factory Five body installation instructions very carefully, plus several build threads and posts where this was discussed on the forums. The takeaway for me, which I’m following, is place the rear body section as Factory Five describes. But fit the nose, doors, and check the glass before locking anything down. Everything must work together. So I’m just getting started. What I can see is that the lower edge of the body wraps around the LH side a bit more than the RH side. Other build pictures seem to show the same. Doesn’t matter and isn’t visible. But need to make sure that works everywhere else.

Probably the biggest issue I’m seeing at this point is the front hinge brackets for the nose don’t fit well. They’re basically square, but there’s an angle where they mount. Mentioned this earlier in the build thread. Also I’m finding that the rod ends that attach to the chassis and pivot in the brackets are too short. Maybe I don’t have things located right yet, so the jury is still out. But sure looks like it at this point. So bottom line, some work to do on the front hinges.

One thing that I was very interested in learning about once the body was together was to measure the length and width to see how it will fit (or not…) in my 14-foot Serpent Express trailer. With the Roadster right next to it, easy to compare. Results: Coupe is 174-inches long, nose to tail. Roadster 162-inches, including the bumpers and overriders. So exactly one foot longer. Coupe is 73-inches wide at the widest part, Roadster is also 73-inches wide including the side pipes. So exactly the same. Conclusion? The Coupe will fit but stick out the back 6-8 inches, which is kind of what I expected. I also don’t see any choice but to add a winch to take it in and out. I don’t see any way I can get the doors open enough to get in and out through the SE side door. It’s hard enough without obstacles. See what happens with all of this. No decisions for now.

For some pics, here’s the body pieces sitting in place. Starting to look like something now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102176&d=1550248591

With the Roadster hogging the lift while I’m doing annual maintenance and getting it ready for Autorama, put the Coupe up on jack stands and took the wheels off. Easier to reach everything underneath.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102177&d=1550248599

Setting the rear height per the instructions. As mentioned, with the hatch side walls in place, easy to do and almost exactly at the right height. Visible in other pics, but especially here, I did have a number of voids and some clay in the parting lines. I dug it all out and cleaned things up as needed. Then filled with HSRF. Knocked most of the flash off the parting lines. Also had to do a little repair around the side window/vent areas. Again with with HSRF. Total of just a few hours, so not a big deal. I'll let the painter do the rest, but it's a start. In general, the body is decent. Assuming I can get everything to fit well, I'm hoping there won't be a ton of prep work for the painter. We'll see.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102178&d=1550248609

I checked the fit of the rear glass. Mainly that the opening was square and matched up. It’s perfect. Also checked the windshield (not pictured) and it’s OK.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102179&d=1550248616

That’s as far as I am for now. I expect to invest some time to get everything the way I want it. J. Miller said it takes him 40 hours to get everything all set. That being the case, I’ll be at this awhile.

On another front, received my laser etched dash knobs from Watsons Streetworks today. That’s the final touch for my switch panel and the entire dash for that matter. Not the best pic, but you get the idea.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102180&d=1550248648

To recap, left to right (including the ends) I have a USB aux outlet, DS seat heater, fog lights, hazards, A/C, temp, fan, wiper/washer, PS seat heater, and regular aux outlet. The three rocker switches are custom from New Vintage USA, which is local for me. They have backlighting with the dash gauges, and an indicator light when on. The A/C, temp and fan controls are the same as provided in the separate panel Factory Five supplies with the heat/A-C kit. The knobs are also the ones provided. Integrated the controls here instead. Also, I wired the large aux outlet to be a battery circuit. So it’s always on. Useful for some applications, but mainly so I can plug my C-Tek battery trickle charger there versus clipping to the battery which isn’t very convenient where it’s located.

Managed to tweak my back yesterday. Must be from working on the car on jack stands instead of the lift. (You can all feel sorry for me now.) But actually, that’s something that I manage to do a couple times a year, usually for no reason it seems. So slowing me down a bit, but plan to keep making progress on the body fit-up.

Automan

02-15-2019, 02:39 PM

Hi, What does HSRF stand for.

thankyou
Nelson

edwardb

02-15-2019, 04:32 PM

Hi, What does HSRF stand for.

thankyou
Nelson

Sorry about that. Throw out acronyms and forget not everyone always recognizes them. 3M High Strength Repair Filler. A vinyl ester based product (same material as the body) that's glass filled and very strong. Comes in various sizes. I typically get the one pint size. Amazon has the best price I've found and arrives quickly. Not cheap (what's new) but the best I've found. Cures rock hard. If the surface is clean and roughed up, the bond or repair is basically permanent. Learned about it quite a few years ago here on the forum and many others use it as well. More info here: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Marine-High-Strength-Repair-Filler/?N=5002385+3293087022+3293938466&preselect=8710663+8716717+8743661&rt=rud

David Williamson

02-15-2019, 05:14 PM

Looking good, I spent several weeks getting the doors and hood trimmed and fitted. I found the hood hinge did not have enough adjustment to move the hood back to line up with the front edge of the pontoons so there will be some fiberglas filler on mine. The lower edge on my hood curled in too much so the body guy did a small modification to reset the profile on the left side, looks like yours is similar. Play around with the hinges to get the hood to open up as much as you can, I had to cut about an inch off the lower front section of the hood to clear the AC condenser/rad and I also cut a section off one of the hinges. The old saying measure many times, cut once applies here.
Hope the back heals up OK
David W

Vette1972

02-16-2019, 10:52 AM

Great Build! Thanks for the update

Automan

02-20-2019, 03:05 PM

Sorry about that. Throw out acronyms and forget not everyone always recognizes them. 3M High Strength Repair Filler. A vinyl ester based product (same material as the body) that's glass filled and very strong. Comes in various sizes. I typically get the one pint size. Amazon has the best price I've found and arrives quickly. Not cheap (what's new) but the best I've found. Cures rock hard. If the surface is clean and roughed up, the bond or repair is basically permanent. Learned about it quite a few years ago here on the forum and many others use it as well. More info here: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Marine-High-Strength-Repair-Filler/?N=5002385+3293087022+3293938466&preselect=8710663+8716717+8743661&rt=rud

Thankyou so much. So you use it to fill in the open voids?

Automan

02-20-2019, 03:14 PM

I just searched it. I found it starting with Marine.

edwardb

02-20-2019, 04:24 PM

Thank you so much. So you use it to fill in the open voids?

Short answer, yes. But need to use a little judgement and use it only for larger voids and certain kinds of repairs. Also works great for bonding things to the body. Maybe not so common with the Coupe build that I've found so far. But have used it several times on the Roadster. Like the side louver mounts. But don't think of it like body filler, e.g. Rage Gold or whatever. It cures very hard. And while it can be sanded (sort of...) you want to tool it on to where it requires as little sanding as possible. Maybe none. It doesn't blend out like body filler. My paint guy doesn't mind me using it. But you might want to check with yours. Often paint shops don't want the customer putting any product on the body. Especially if it's going to cause more work.

I just searched it. I found it starting with Marine.

Right. I left that out explaining what the acronym stood for. The 3M link I provided gave the complete name.

edwardb

02-22-2019, 03:51 PM

Pretty intense work since the last update getting the body fitted. It’s what I expected and exactly what others have recommended. In other words, don’t do anything in isolation. There are a lot of moving pieces and interactions. Changing one thing affects something else almost in all cases. I’m happy with where I’m at, but still have a ways to go.

As I showed in the last update, I set the rear part of the body onto the chassis like Factory Five shows in the instructions. Then worked on fitting the nose. Once I felt everything was a close as it was going to get, after trimming the back edge of the nose and messing with everything for a couple days, locked down the rear body mounts on the rear section. It ended up with the exact dimensions they show above the rear hatch floor, centered very closely on the rear suspension, and approximately 1/4-inch from the posts at the front of the door. So good job there Factory Five. Made a couple of minor changes. I liked the rear body mounts on the inside of the chassis brackets better than the outside. Centered the bolts a little better in the vents. Also instead of trimming the body to fit around the tubes in front of the rear wheels, I found if I trimmed the chassis tubes just slightly the body slid over them without cutting. Didn’t take enough metal to affect the strength in any way. Just a sharper angle. Maybe 1/4-inch or so at the bottom angling to zero at the top. Also I’m going to use 1/4-inch nutserts to hold the body along the door opening rather than just the smaller self-tapping screws suggested. Going to use three. One at each end and one in the middle. Right now I just have it cleco’d in case I need to make any final adjustments for the door fitting. The supplied carpet wraps over that edge and covers them. I test fit the rear splash guards. Looks like they're almost perfect. Fit the body contour very well. The tab at the bottom is a little off. But that's an easy adjustment.

With that moved to the nose. I found it helped a lot to install the lower front splash shields, so drilled and cleco’d those in place. Helps to hold the pontoons more in their final location. Some discussion about whether to put the shield on the inside or outside of the front of the pontoon. They’re designed to go on the inside, and I think I’m going to leave them there. The paint on the front of the pontoon will be exposed. Maybe try some protective film or just paint with undercoat. We’ll see.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102565&d=1550863471

With the nose located the best I could, started working on getting the hinges installed. I noted earlier in this build thread that the angle of the hinges (basically 90 degrees) isn't the same angle as where they’re installed in the body. Plus I was afraid they would hit the sheet metal when hinged open. More on that later. After thinking about several options, threw back to my woodworking days and made some wedges that filled the angle. I removed the powder coat off the bottom of the hinges and bonded a piece of 3/4-inch plywood to the bottom. Good old JB Weld of course. With that cured, cut the angle on the bottom using my bandsaw. The gap is 1/2-inch at the back going to zero at the front. I cut them leaving 5/8-inch at the back and 1/8-inch at the front. This also helped to locate the rod ends better. The threads on the top nut didn’t go all the way through. With this wedge, the hinges fit perfectly between the back of the fog light buckets and the bottom of the cowl. Located and drilled the mounting holes with the bolts and spacers in the rod end on the chassis. Then I took a step that not everyone will agree with and maybe I don’t even recommend. But I decided to bond the hinges to the body. So roughed up the mounting locations, mixed up some HSRF, and bolted the hinges in place. They won’t be coming out again. These hinges are obviously critical since they hold the entire nose in place, plus wanting to maximize my plywood wedge “fix” decided this gave me a little more margin. Note that I still have up/down and front/back adjustment. It’s just side/side that’s now fixed. But I’m confident I have it centered as best as it can be. Also note I'm going to be finishing the inside of the nose. Details TBD still, but the visible edges of my wood pieces will be finished and unseen.

With the hinges now fitted and attached, tested the tilt nose function in preparation to install the gas struts. What happened was exactly what I expected based on other build threads. The nose only tilted up this much before hitting the A/C condenser. Not far behind would have been the radiator.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102566&d=1550863484

Like I say, wasn’t surprised about this. But am a little surprised this isn’t mentioned in the build manual. At least not anywhere that I’ve found. After cutting enough to clear the condenser and then the radiator, still was not all the way open and hit the aluminum panels from the radiator tunnel that extend below the frame in that area. Also not a surprise based on my earlier review of the nose hinges. So off came the nose again, and I trimmed and touched up the sheet metal on each side. I took the sheet metal back to the same depth as the face of the radiator and then also along the frame at the top. It would be possible cut less, e.g. just enough to clear where it interferes when the nose opens. But IMO this looks a little more sanitary and the missing sheet metal in that area doesn’t hurt anything. I cut it back on both sides like this pic from the right side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102567&d=1550863493

With a couple more tweaks (I’m getting good at lifting that nose on and off…) finally had it opening as far as it was supposed to. Cuts along the bottom of the body nose look like this. The angle on the one side is to clear the lower hose connection for the condenser.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102568&d=1550863501

It’s a pretty big cut, but with the nose closed and the car on the ground, completely unseen. With it opening properly, proceeded to mount the gas struts. Here too I made a couple small changes. The instructions show putting the frame ball socket mount on the inside of the rail. This routed the strut very close to the corner of the chassis, to the point of possibly interfering. I had previously noted that Ron E mounted them on the outside of the frame rail on his SEMA build. Did the same and worked perfectly. Also, for the ball socket mount in the nose itself, I made matching steel plates and used high strength rivets to mount, sandwiching the glass between. Also threw in a little HSRF since they won't be coming out again. I felt better about this than using screws and bolts. Again, probably would have been fine. But you know… Looks like this now with the gas struts working.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102569&d=1550863510

The nose opens and closes very nicely. So happy about that, and the struts clear everything inside when closed. One thing I did notice is that when closed the struts pushed the gap between the nose and body open some. I’ll adjust the hinges and that should be fine. Put the wheels back on the car and off the jack stands. Like what I’m seeing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102570&d=1550863517

edwardb

02-22-2019, 03:51 PM

I have the doors about 90% fitted. My approach is to trim them just enough to fit into the opening, e.g. with little/no gaps. Then get the hinges installed and adjusted. Then set the gap all around. I have the first part done. Next will be the hinges. I’m very happy with how the doors fit. No major issues there at all. The match to the body is very good. Also, I need to get the nose fitting completed, the latches installed, and then by adjusting the thickness of the bumpers, get the nose to body match completed. I’m happy with how that’s turning out as well. As far as I can tell now, I have only one issue remaining with the body fitment, and that’s the pontoon on the right (passenger) side. The gap is good at the back, but basically a friction fit at the front. With all my massaging of everything, that’s the one thing I just couldn’t get out. The left side is perfect and parallel. I might be able to get the required clearance with some sanding. But I kind of doubt it. May require some minor glass work. We’ll see. The other general comment I’ll make about body fitting, after spending the last week at it, is that much like the Roadster the Coupe body is not completely symmetrical. There are differences, I would say especially the nose from side to side. Nothing that will be visible or noticeable once it’s done. But when you measure, you’ll find what I mean. I always tell people this is part of the charm of these cars. ;) Just stay with it and find the locations that provide the best overall fit.

One other general comment about the body on the Coupe. It's pretty clear that once the main body is installed, would be very difficult and basically impractical to remove. I've mentioned before about how some of the sheet metal isn't installed until after the body is on. Then there's carpet over that. Plus a glued in windshield. Probably other factors. Don't think it's an issue. And it would be easy enough to take the nose off. But the main body looks to me like it's one time and done. After paint of course.

In conclusion, yet another tool shout out. For my previous builds, when I needed to cut fiber glass I used my Dremel. Lightweight I know but did the job. With quite a bit more on this build, plus wanting to upgrade, added the Milwaukee 2522 M12 Fuel 3-inch Compact Cut Off Tool to my collection. I guess I won’t be happy until I have the whole M12 collection. Getting close I think… This thing is awesome for cutting fiberglass and I’m sure will use it for metal and more in the future. Think of it like a Dremel on max steroids and much improved ergonomics. I was hoping the base and vacuum adapter would help keep dust down in the shop while cutting. It does, but had trouble seeing the cut lines. So did most of my work without it. But still highly recommended. The brushless motors they’re using now along with the lithium batteries are pretty amazing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102571&d=1550863555

With that, the Coupe build is going into a bit of a pause. Need to finish getting the Roadster ready, get the trailer out and serviced, and then to Autorama next weekend. Always enjoy that. All good timing, because then the Roadster and trailer will be ready for the trek to the Texas meet just a few weeks from now. Looking forward to that plus a break from the winter cold.

Jeff Kleiner

02-22-2019, 04:35 PM

Good stuff Paul! You're right, the latches will come into play to a great extent as far as the nose to body interface goes. You mentioned the doors and their hinges so I gotta' tell you an amusing anecdote from when we were building the Coupe at SEMA---Jesper was installing and adjusting the hinge on the passenger side and losing the battle. He finally stepped away in frustration (well, as frustrated as he gets which is only about a #2 on most of our scales) and said to no one in particular "Who's the idiot that designed this P.O.S. part anyway?" :D

Enjoy Autorama next week!

Jeff

Erik W. Treves

02-22-2019, 04:52 PM

FWIW...

the front splash guard ... I know the manual shows it behind the Pontoon ... I can tell you that in just at 2000 miles on the clock that are get BEAT UP! I put my aluminum on the front of the pontoon. I actually have a full piece over the pontoon and then double stacked the splash guard on top of that and then applied bed liner on it for extra measure... still gets beat up but it is an easy repair. Also the area right below the side pipe exit and a bit forward where the curve move toward the front... this area too gets quite a bit of impacts... right now I don't have any protection there at all but I will add some 3m clear before spring. While we are there since the pontoon suck in toward the front and the side pipes are also somewhat tucked in comparison to the roadster... yep... the front of the pipes are getting blasted... it might not be as bad with the double barrel exhaust... but my single side exhaust is seeing what I would call a fair amount of wear already at 2000 miles....

something to keep in mind... I can certainly take some pics and post these areas for your inspection.

edwardb

02-22-2019, 07:16 PM

Jeff -- I find backing away is usually the best thing to do when I get frustrated. Too funny hearing Jesper does the same thing with his own parts.

Erik -- Thanks for the post and detailed explanations. Your build thread is one that I've studied closely and have seen how you handled the splash guards. I may regret it. But right now I'm focused on fitment and one of the pontoons is where I have what looks like my biggest challenge. I'm going to stay with the splash guard on the inside because it helps. I'll add whatever is necessary to protect the outside later. Adding another piece you you did is a good idea. Yes I will have double barrel pipes. I'll check the other areas you mention.

johnny cobra

02-23-2019, 05:16 AM

Outstanding Build Thread .......... And perfect work ..........

John

freds

03-05-2019, 08:08 AM

Hi Paul. Please list the dimensions of the cut-out you made to clear the radiator and A/C hose connections. I'd like to piggy back on the work you did lifting the cowl on and off.
Thanks, fred

edwardb

03-05-2019, 03:36 PM

Hi Paul. Please list the dimensions of the cut-out you made to clear the radiator and A/C hose connections. I'd like to piggy back on the work you did lifting the cowl on and off.
Thanks, fred

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

freds

03-05-2019, 08:46 PM

Greatly appreciate your very valuable description and guidance. I fully realize that I have to essentially do exactly what you have done as no two builds and especially bodies, are identical. But what a great "road map" for me and others.
THANKS
fred

I thought about listing the dimensions in my original post, but decided not to. Since you ask, I'll describe what I did with one huge caveat. Please check very carefully that these dimensions are correct for your build. I've been working on getting the nose placed for a couple weeks now (off and on, not continuously...) and finally have it where I want it. But to be honest it's been a bit of a struggle. Capped off by once I thought I had it where I wanted it, I added the gas structs and that pushed it forward 1/4-inch or so when closed compared to not having the struts installed. I mentioned this before. So ended up adjusting the hinges again and it's as good as it's going to get. The left (driver) side pivot bolt is at the end of it's adjustment range. The right (passenger side) isn't quite. I also found the wheel lips are asymmetrical side-to-side. With everything else centered, the right (passenger side) overhangs more than the other side. Not a lot and it won't be noticeable when done and everything else is pretty good. But just one example of how you have to balance the fit everywhere and find what works best for you.

So having said that, my cuts on the underside of the cowl are 2-inches in from the outside edge of the hinge brackets. Right up to the metal base on both sides. Even cut into it slightly on the left side. Then another 1-1/8 inches in from the inside of the base of the hinge brackets to clear the A/C condenser. Plus the angle on on the right side, per my picture, to clear the hose connection on the condenser. That angle also cut slightly into the base of the hinge bracket. You'll also need to cut the aluminum panels on each side of the radiator as I showed previously. Once that's all done, also be careful about the placement of the connections for the gas struts. Move the outside of the frame rail as I showed. Also watch the length. With the nose all the up as far as it would go (e.g. the base of the hinge very close to the chassis sheet metal and radiator) I found the frame location needed to be moved back about 3/4-inch. Otherwise the strut would have been pushing hard against the chassis and the radiator right behind it. I suspect there is a lot of variation in all of this, and what I'm citing is my personal experience. Yours maybe different. So check carefully before cutting or drilling anything. That's my main advice. Good luck.

edwardb

03-09-2019, 02:36 PM

Been a busy week or two since the last update, but still plugging away when I’ve had time. Still doing body work. Feel like I’m making a career out of it. But starting to see the light at the end maybe. Also lost some time because our main home desktop computer decided to give up. After extensive troubleshooting, have determined the mother board died. Grrr. It’s 5-6-7 years old (don’t remember exactly) so not particularly new. But still a pain. New one on the way and then more time restoring everything back. Thankfully my laptop keeps ticking.

Before the build update, first a couple words about last weekend. I mentioned before about being asked to have my Roadster in the Ford Performance display at the Detroit Autorama. All went as expected and had a really good experience. Ford and their display people were great. Crowds seemed very busy. Had a fun three days talking to lots of people and looking at many of the other 800+ cars at the event. New good buddy from our local club displayed his just finished ERA. Stunning car. He did an amazing job and deservedly won first place in Hand Built Sports. Move out was the usual chaos with a massive line of trailers. But got through it and the Roadster is back home safe and sound. Shared some pics and a brief description with Factory Five and they put together a very generous story about the event. It was on their website and also included in one of their regular email blasts, so I expect most have seen it. But here in case you haven’t: https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/2019-detroit-autorama-with-ford-performance-customer-paul-b/.

The shop that’s painted my last two builds had a booth at the show, so had a nice chat with them. Tried to prime the pump for the upcoming Coupe paint. Hopefully will be ready to talk to them in earnest in a few months. Couple from there made it back to where the Roadster was and did a livestream interview showing their previous work. Hopefully that advertisement is worth something.

The Detroit Autorama is also where they give the Ridler Award, recognized as one of the premier in our hobby. Spent some time checking out the eight finalists one morning before the doors opened. Wasn't surprised this Cadillac was the winner. Simply incredible. Rather then post my pictures, this article gives the back story, details about the build, and a bunch of pictures. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/2019-detroit-autorama-ridler-award-steve-bartons-1959-cadillac-wagon/.

Back to reality… Finally have the cowl about where I want it. Front hinges are done and in their final locations. Installed the latches. Pretty straightforward. I switched to 1/4-inch screws vs. the supplied 10-32’s to hold them on. Likely not necessary but decided I wanted a little more beef against the glass on the outside.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103441&d=1552156163

With the latches in place, getting bumpers installed and pulling the cowl into place really helps to get things lined up. What I found though was a significant variation in the thickness of the cowl as well as the step around the front of the body. The required bumper thickness varied from under 3/8-inch to 9/16-inch. The kit supplied bumpers are just over 3/8-inch. So, McMaster to the rescue again with these https://www.mcmaster.com/9540k22. Determined the eight locations I wanted bumpers (after looking at a number of build examples) and adjusted the bumper thickness at each location using my stationery disk sander. Placed like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103442&d=1552156172

Then adjusted the catches and I’m extremely pleased with the fit. Have a little bit of work to touch up the gap and round the edge slightly. But other than that, very little body work will be required.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103439&d=1552156141

Two things remain to finish the cowl. Still need to adjust the gap on the right side between the pontoon and the bottom of the cowl. Will be some minor glass work. Still thinking of the best way to do it. Also need to install locating pins that go between the front of the pontoons and the cowl. The kit supplies some receptacles that are OK. But then some small pins (much smaller than the holes in the receptacles) that are threaded on one end and no mention in the manual how they’re supposed to be installed. Going to do something different with the pins. Still thinking about that too.

Yesterday, decided to start tackling the door installation. Last major piece of the body install. First cut holes in the doors per the instructions. Laid out per the manual, cut with an air saw, then cleaned up a bit with a sanding drum, sandpaper, files, the usual. The holes in the inside of the doors are required for access to finish the installation and in my case will be covered with door cards. The holes in the front of the doors are pretty large and I was hoping to make a little smaller. But they need to be the exact size described for the frames to go in. They just fit when put in at an angle as shown in the manual.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103443&d=1552156180

I had previously powder coated the frames and did the initial assembly. So they were ready to go. So proceeded to lay out the hinge cutouts on the body. Sort of followed the instructions. But instead of using a long drill to locate the cutouts as described, I used a straight edge on the hinge and a bright light to show the location. Laid out the cut lines per the instructions but cut them a bit undersize so I could adjust them if needed and not get too oversized.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103444&d=1552156189

Then trial fit the frame and adjusted as needed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103445&d=1552156197

Then trial fit the door.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103446&d=1552156205

I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

Couple hints I’ve learned already. The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

That’s it. Back to the shop. 30 day forecast is showing a definite warming trend, so hopefully out of the woods with winter. We’ll see. Looking forward to being at the Texas show in a few weeks.

progmgr1

03-10-2019, 06:06 PM

edwardb

03-10-2019, 08:09 PM

Hi Paul,

I understand that you have made an extensive study of the plumbing on the 2018 Coyote. I bought a 2017 crate motor / transmission, but I'm installing a 2018 intake manifold on it. However, the FFR installation instructions that I downloaded don't cover the new engine and some of the fittings are different sizes and in different locations. In the attached photo, is tube #1 a PCV connection? If so, can I just connect that to nipple#3, or do I need to connect it further down the intake? Also, do I just need to cap off both #2 and #3 (if I don't use it for PCV termination)?

Another question is: do you have part numbers and a source for the 5/8" valve cover PCV and 3/4" heater hose connectors? I was surprised to find that these were not included in the Coyote installation kit.

Sorry for hijacking your build thread. I would have put all this into a PM, if I was computer literate enough to figure out how to attach a photo...

Thanks for all your hard work and the rigorous documentation! You are a great resource for the rest of us.

Keith

I described the 2018 manifold connections in post #488. Here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Body-Installation-Still-Going&p=351623&viewfull=1#post351623. From your picture, #1 is the vacuum connection for the CMCV function. This replaces the similar connection that was on the back of the Gen 2 Coyote. #2 is the main vacuum port. This connects to a manifold setup in the Mustang (not included with the crate motor) which supplies vacuum to the CMCV plus the power brakes. #3 is the vacuum port for evaporative emissions canister purge valve. The 2018 intake no longer has the purge valve as part of the assembly like before. It’s separate and not included with the crate motor.

The PCV connection is the larger unmarked one angled in the left side of your picture. You can cap the vacuum ports if you're not using them. In the post I linked to, I explained how I used all of the connections in my installation. Sorry I don't have a part number for the PCV connectors. The crate motor came with hoses and connectors, so used those. For the heater connections, those are Gates 28504 connectors. The did come with my Coyote completion kit from Factory Five. But I have purchased them before from Rock Auto. Not my favorite source, but they were the cheapest and got here quickly when I needed them.

progmgr1

03-11-2019, 05:31 AM

edwardb

03-11-2019, 06:21 AM

Thanks Paul. I appreciate the info about the Gates connectors.

I dug through the big box of parts that came with the crate motor and found the DS PCV hose had found its way inside one of the unused air boxes. Once I had that in hand it was clear where the other end of the hose connected to the stock intake. I'll try to mimic that on the new intake.

I'm still confused about the #1 port though. In order to get the Coyote to fit in the hot rod, we have to remove the CMCV motors and lock out the shafts. The vacuum port that feeds that system is on the back of the manifold. However, on the 2017 manifold there is a second port and hose on the back that is identified as a PCV tube in the FFR documentation. That tube is then connected to a semi-rigid tube that goes through the manifold and ends up in a dangling connector at the front of the engine. The 2018 manifold does not have this port on the back, but has a similar appearing port on the front of the manifold instead (what I called #1). That's why I was guessing that #1 was another PCV port.

All this stuff would be a lot easier for me to understand if there was a shop manual or something similar available on line. Are you aware of such a resource, or do I have to continue to pump Ford Racing for info?

I'm very familiar with the Gen 2 Coyote having installed one in Roadster #8674. Early Gen 2's had two lines from the CMCV actuators. One was the actual vacuum supply line that attached to a vacuum port on the front of the intake. The other was a vent line that attached to the cold air intake. Later versions of the Gen 2 eliminated this second line and just had the CMCV circuit vent to atmosphere at the rear of the intake. Same as the 2018+ Gen 3's. If Factory Five is calling either of those lines PCV related that's incorrect.

The port that you're calling #1 on the 2018+ intake is the vacuum supply port for the CMCV, as I indicated before. Serves the same purpose as the port that is on the back of the 2015-2017 (Gen 2) intakes. Since you've removed the CMCV setup, which I know is required for the '33 Hot Rod, then you can cap this port and forget about it. Serves no other purpose.

I'm not aware of any shop manuals. I've learned what I've learned by hands-on testing and experimentation and a few diagrams and write-ups I've been able to find with searching. There are several on-line guides for guys doing a 2018 manifold installation. This is one I found useful from Lund Racing. https://support.lundracing.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360003056187/Manifold-writeup-rev-2.pdf.

Jeff Kleiner

03-11-2019, 09:14 AM

I’m still not there yet though. Getting close, but I’m out of adjustment on the bottom of the hinge in the body and it’s still not flush. So will need to lengthen the slots on the hinge piece that’s mounted to the body location. There’s a lot of adjustment built into these hinges, so a little surprised I ran out. The body is exactly where the manual shows it’s supposed to be. Both doors fit the openings almost exactly. Really impressed with that. But getting all that lined up with the hinges takes some fiddling obviously. I’ll get it, then tackle the other side.

You'll probably find that you end up adjusting the frame and then shimming between it and the the skin to match the door up with the body.

...The manual shows grinding a slight bevel on the hinge pins so they go in easier. I did, but not enough. Going to go back and grind a little more. Also trial fit the bracket that bolts to the body and holds the door hinges. Where the pivot bushings are. Make sure everything lines up and will go together easily before starting the door installation. It’s not particularly easy to feed the door frame through the body cutouts and then reach behind and put in those hinge pins. If things aren’t lining up and goes together hard, it’s not fun. Especially if you’re by yourself. Ask me how I know that. A little help for this stage would be good if you can get it.

Remember what I told ya' that Jesper said about the hinges when we were working on the SEMA Coupe? ;) :D

Good luck,
Jeff

edwardb

03-11-2019, 02:02 PM

You'll probably find that you end up adjusting the frame and then shimming between it and the the skin to match the door up with the body.

Yup. Received confirmation on the other forum as well that I would need to shim the driver's side. That's what I'm in the process of doing. The passenger side looks like it will be OK without any shims. Not sure how this happens, but now that I understand it a little more, will get through it.

Remember what I told ya' that Jesper said about the hinges when we were working on the SEMA Coupe? ;) :D

Sure do. Thought of him often the last couple days. :p

jdavis500

03-11-2019, 02:07 PM

edwardb

03-11-2019, 09:21 PM

I see that you chose EATON's Bussmann Series Circuit Breakers and the Waytek Circuit Breaker Boots(page 13 of your thread)? Did you choose the same amperage for all or are they different based on the load of each circuit?

Those four breakers and boots are from DelCity.net. I believe your descriptions are correct. They are each sized according to the load.

40 amp: American Autowire Headlight/dim module main power (nice piece, unfortunately no longer available)
20 amp: Fog lights
20 amp: Auxiliary outlet
10 amp: USB outlet

David Williamson

03-12-2019, 08:50 AM

If you are putting in side windows make sure the door handle is located back far enough to leave room for the window bracket.
David W

P100DHG

03-15-2019, 05:33 PM

edwardb

03-15-2019, 08:05 PM

Paul,

If I could jog your memory here for a bit. When installing rear sway bar, did you find it necessary to cut the female end of the "rod" of the joint that hold the sway bar to the IRS lower control arm?

Thanks,
Danny

Fortunately, don't have to try to remember in this case. Good thing... I cut them per the instructions. Just took this pic. Sorry about the dust. Been working on the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=103841&d=1552698213

Erik W. Treves

03-16-2019, 06:26 PM

For what it is worth I ended up disconnecting my rear bar after only going up 50 lbs on my rear springs...

edwardb

03-20-2019, 09:25 PM

Been a little while since my last update. Lots going on plus a couple days rebuilding our home computer. Nothing lost and a nice upgrade over what he had before. But hours I’ll never get back. Made some changes on how I do backups, so maybe the next time it will be a little faster. But changing computers is kind of like moving or cleaning out the attic or basement. Lots of old files and programs not being used, so was probably time anyway. This update is from the new computer. Can you tell? Didn't think so.

Meanwhile, back to the build. I now have the doors about 90% done. I’m pretty happy with out they turned out. But I have to admit it was a bit painful and I was more than a little frustrated at times. Just had to walk away a few evenings. Partly because I don’t do this enough that I’m very good at it. So it’s slow and tedious for me. Plus there were just enough surprises to keep me scratching me head. But I think a couple more tweaks and the doors will be done. Then a little more work to finish up the nose and I’m retiring from body work on this build.

I mentioned in my last update that the driver’s side door wasn’t fitting. I checked and double checked how I had everything put together. Everything was per the instructions and really no way to assemble wrong. But it was still way off. An important point to understand, for you Roadster builders out there, is the Coupe doesn’t have the door frames molded into the doors like the Roadster. They’re separate assemblies that are installed through the front ends of the door shells. I’ve shown this before, but in case you missed it, helps to make the rest of this make sense. The frames are bolted to the inside half of the door. I was just about to start cutting metal (something I always advise as the last resort) on the hinges to give more adjustment. But at the last minute realized spacers between the frame and the door shell would move things the direction needed. Then I received comments on both forums that spacers might be necessary. It wasn’t just me… After a little experimenting, confirmed that would definitely help and 3/8-inch was the right amount. So riveted 3/8 x 1 x 24 inch aluminum strips on the door frames. Like this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104114&d=1553132158

Put the frame back in the door and it fit almost perfectly. Hinge adjustment range nearly centered. What a relief. Went to the passenger side and it fit almost as well with no spacers. So there’s roughly a 3/8-inch difference side-to-side somewhere. I measured the doors, and that’s not it. The hinges and mounts are the same. Just mirror images. I don’t know. More of that asymmetrical charm I guess. Anyway, with that resolved, spent the last couple days getting everything wrapped up, gapped, etc.

The instructions show four bolts holding the door shells to the frames. I went with six. Partly because that’s what I do. But also because the top two on each end are also for the window mounting brackets. So those are placed accordingly. Using machine bolts here temporarily until I get longer ones because of the 3/8-inch spacers. I have the billet door handles, shown previously, but I'll install those once at final assembly. Meanwhile, using the plastic ones now and just hung in the opening versus hooking and unhooking the cable multiple times at this stage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104117&d=1553132178

Cleaned up the cutouts for the hinges. Was hoping to make them a little tighter. But ended up like this. Almost exactly what's shown in the instructions. Imagine that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104116&d=1553132171

Made an executive decision with the door strikers. Instead of drilling a hole in the body to clear them completely, I drilled a hole just big enough for the mounting bolt and sandwiched the body. I can’t think of any downside to that. Looks neater IMO. They’re bolted to a very solid bracket on the other side which I bent slightly so it's exactly flush with the body. Gives a little additional rigidity to the body mounting. They also needed the added thickness in order to align properly with the bear claw style latches in the doors. Even had to add an additional spacer on the passenger side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104119&d=1553132194

For the body mount to the sills, I used 1/4-inch nutserts and flange bolts. Very solid. I also found if I pulled the back corner out just slightly (3/16-1/4 inch), which is kind of where it wanted to go naturally anyway, the bottom of the door matched better to the sill. I guess experience with similar adjustments with the Roadster helped.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104118&d=1553132184

That’s about it. Here’s the driver’s door pretty much done. As you can see, lines up well. Will require the usual body work but nothing major. The passenger door is very similar. I used 3/16-inch for all the gaps. Looks like a little more than that in this picture because some of the gel coat is removed when breaking the edges. But I’ve found that gap amount works out about right once the filler, primer, paint etc. is added. Plus especially for door gaps, need to have room for how it swings in and out of the opening.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104115&d=1553132165

Last thing I still have to do is install the check straps. The doors don’t open quite as much as I expected I guess. At this point, the top hinge is hitting the inside of the body cutout. I have it cut all the way to the edge. The only way to get more would be to cut some metal from the hinge, and don’t want to do that. With the check straps in the locations shown in the instructions, this is all the further it would open anyway. So I guess this is how it’s supposed to be.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104120&d=1553132201

Well that’s it. I’ll be taking a break from the build for a couple weeks. Feel like a need a bit of a vacation from it anyway. Time to face the music and do our taxes. Then next week we’re off to Texas for a family visit and the Texas Cobra Club Spring Meet.

edwardb

03-25-2019, 02:24 PM

I said no more updates for a couple weeks. But have found a few hours here and there, so managed to knock out a couple things. In the last update, I said the doors were 90% done. I didn’t explain further, but that was a bit of a setback. I thought they were closer to 100%. But I made what in hindsight was a mistake. So passing on a suggestion. In an update several weeks ago, described how by adjusting bumper height and the cowl latches, I was able to get the cowl lined up quite nicely where it meets the main body section. It pulls down a bit tight when closing the latches, but that’s what it takes to line up. You can probably guess where this is going. I mounted, gapped, and finalized the doors with the cowl up. Last thing before leaving the shop last week, pulled the cowl down and latched. Ugh. Driver side door still fine. But on the passenger side the top of the door was now above the cowl. Not a lot. Between 1/16 and 1/8 inch. But still not where I wanted it obviously. Clearly the cowl latch was pulling the main body section down slightly. Adjusting the latch a little would fix the door but then the cowl wouldn’t fit as well. This is what I meant in an earlier comment about body fitting being about sorting multiple things. So a little step back.

Had some time on Saturday, so was able to get it fixed up. Door hinge needed to be moved down a bit, and there was plenty of adjustment. But unfortunately, the hinge was hitting a weld on the frame bracket. So prevented it from having it’s full range. Took everything apart, ground down the weld, and put everything back together. Changing the top of the door location affected the bottom gap, so had to sand a little off there. Also had to adjust the hinge holes a bit, the door frame itself, and also the rear latch. All done now and I’m very happy with the fit. Only slight downside is the gap along the front edge ended up a bit wider than I wanted. It will be OK once painted, but still a little wider than I was shooting for. I’m positive if I would have had the cowl down and latched while fitting the doors and setting the gaps, it would have been right the first time. Suggest others consider this. BTW, I’m pretty confident that slight movement in the body will go away once it’s been in place for awhile and everything finalized, windshield installed, pontoons attached, etc. The fiberglass will take a set. Even now, if I leave it latched all the time, rather than open for days at a time like before, I don’t notice it moving when opened.

Only thing left on the doors was the limit straps. To keep the hinges from hitting the body all the time, decided to put them on now rather than near the end like in the instructions. For my Roadster builds, I’ve always used 10-32 chrome screws rather than rivets per the instructions. More serviceable and looks better IMO. For the Coupe, they show putting the straps on the inner face of the doors with rivets. Only going through the fiberglass, that doesn’t seem very robust to me. Maybe if you put backing washers on the rivets. But rather than doing it that way, and so I didn't have to reach inside for washers and nuts, made up small plates out of .080 aluminum with two 10-32 nutserts on each. Bonded these on the inside, so now have a serviceable connection plus spreads the load onto a wider area of the fiberglass. Not a big deal, but what I preferred. For the other side, drilled and tapped 10-32 threads into the frame and attached with the same style screws. Nothing much to see, but here’s the driver side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104459&d=1553537274

One other hint about the doors that I noticed. On the top rear corners of the doors, they curve over the top of the body. When opening and closing, that curve needs to clear the body so you’re not messing up the paint. In fact, ideally needs to have enough clearance to add gasket material to seal things up. Without enough clearance, just going to damage or roll up the gasket material. With my doors properly adjusted so the rear tops are even with the body (fit very well there actually) the passenger side was nearly perfect. I could put a piece of “D” gasket material on the bottom of the door and it closed and sealed nicely. On the driver side, however, there was basically zero clearance. I noticed the door was much thicker on the driver side, so first thing used a drum sander on the bottom to make it the same thickness as the other side. That was better but gasket material still rolled up when installed. So sanded the top of the jamb area are to give additional clearance. The glass in both cases is very thick, so that’s not a problem. Obviously this is something you want to look at before body and paint. This pictures shows the area I’m talking about, which BTW I'm still finalizing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104460&d=1553537281

I have the optional side windows. I’ve seen where a couple of builds have indicated some difficulty installing the plexi panels into the frames with the provided gasket seal and installation tool. Had a little more time, so thought I would take a swing at that. The side window kit came without any instructions. But later Factory Five sent a manual update that included a section on assembling the side windows. Good thing because I didn't have any idea before then. Studied the instructions, looked at the parts, and then sat and stared for a while. (That again.) Came to a couple conclusions, specifically relating to the diagram in the instructions about the orientation of the rubber gasket seal. Maybe this is a stock diagram. I think it has a several errors. First it shows the self-sealing “flap” on the gasket to be on the outside of the car. That didn’t make sense to me, and close examination of the Coupe in Factory Five’s showroom shows this on the inside. The smooth side is on the outside. Just how I think it should be too. Next it shows the “aluminum” (which is actually steel for these frames) in the narrow slot of the gasket, and the “glass” (which is actually plexi in this case) in the wide slot. That didn’t make sense to me either because the steel frame is much thicker than the plexi. Played around a little trying to follow the illustration. The narrow slot is hard to get onto the steel frame and then bends the rubber to where it doesn’t sit flat. The plexi rattles around in the wide slot. So switched the sides and everything fits much better. Finally, played around a bit with the provided installation tool and didn’t have any luck using it for the initial installation as shown. I’ve never used (or even seen) a tool like that, and I just wasn’t getting it. Plus I was a little concerned about the comments in the instructions about not breaking the plexi with the tool, and I didn't want to mark up the powder coat either. Could see how it worked to fold over the self-sealing flap. But not for the initial install. Note this isn't a criticism. I just haven't used a tool like that before. A pro probably does this in their sleep. In my case, decided to see if I could install the windows into the frame without the tool. Was a learning experience, but done. Here’s the process I followed, FWIW:

1. The gasket seal material must be cut to length for each window. There’s only a couple inches extra, so be careful. Additionally, you want the length to be as exact as possible since the ends butt together in the perimeter of the opening. Gaps don’t look good, plus would leak. I established the proper length by first squaring off the end. Then installed the gasket material around the inside of the metal frame using the wide slot in the gasket. I used multiple pieces of tape to pull it into place, especially in the corners, so that the length would be exactly right. Once back around to the starting point, marked the length, and cut again.

2. Removed the cut-to-length gasket seal from the metal frame and installed onto the plexi window using the narrow slot. For both I put the start/end location in the bottom front. Could be anywhere I guess but for OCD’s like me, should be the same on both.

3. Juiced up the gasket seal with WD40 and worked it into the metal frame. Didn’t use the tool. Started at the back vertical side with the plexi panel/gasket assembly on the outside of the frame, and pushed the slot in the seal onto the frame. With the WD40 lubrication and flexibility of the plexi panel, it’s not that hard to work your way around and push the seal through to the inside and into place.

4. Once the gasket seal and plexi panel are inside the metal frame, go around and make sure everything is straight and the seal edges are laying flat.

5. Then use the provided tool to close the flap on the gasket seal. Having plenty of lubrication is important, then use it just like the picture in the instructions show (the angle is important) and it lifts the one side and rolls the flap under. Pretty cool. Once all the way around, I used a small seam roller to make sure the flap was seated.

6. Clean up the WD40 and admire your work. It all fits and works quite well. One hint. Even though a little practice doesn't hurt, check and double check that you're putting the right panel into the right frame. It’s not hard to install them on the wrong side and have a do-over. Not that I would know that. :rolleyes:

Not much of a picture, but mine are ready to install on the build after paint.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104458&d=1553537268

OK, now that’s really it. Time to clean up, pack up, load the Roadster tomorrow, and we’re off for Texas. Maybe see some of you there.

GoDadGo

03-31-2019, 05:54 PM

Looking Fantastic As Usual Sir Edwardb!

Wrench On, Wrench On!

David Williamson

04-01-2019, 08:30 AM

My doors had the same issue with space for weather strip at the back top area. The drivers side was touching with the door aligned. One of the pictures in my #16 body shop post shows it after mods
David W

jdavis500

04-20-2019, 09:58 AM

edwardb

04-20-2019, 11:04 AM

I noticed that you are waiting to install the remainder of your carpet until after fitting. I would really like to install it all prior to fitting the body so I can finalize seats. I assume that you were anticipating a mess. Being a little further on with fitment, do you think installing carpet prior is doable or would you still wait?

Yes, my normal practice is to wait until near the end of the build to install the carpet. That's what I've done with the Roadsters. Combination of not wanting to get them messy with the build/finish process, but also just not wanting to damage with tools while working, etc. Best time is when the body is off being painted. But the Coupe has a couple challenges that make it even more likely to need to wait. (1) The outside rear cockpit corners can't be installed until after the body is on. Having had the body off/on a couple times with and without those pieces, agreed they need to wait. (2) The hatch area rear wall also can't go in until the body is on. (3) Finally, the sill carpet actually wraps over from the side onto the top and covers the edge of the body in that area. Also not possible until the body is on. Side note: The instructions also say the hatch side aluminum pieces (with the edge that goes under the floor) can't go on until the body is on. I haven't found that to be the case. I've gone ahead and riveted mine in place.

So practically speaking, I don't see how you can install the carpet until later. Unless you only want to put in some of the pieces, and that's not my personal preference. No reason you can't get the seats fitted, mounting holes and bolts figured out, etc. without the carpet. Then take them back out to install the carpet. You'll have to take them out anyway to install that rear cockpit corner I mentioned. That's what I've done. Mine are all ready to drop back into the holes I've drilled and bolt down for the last time at final assembly, and after the carpet is in. Hope that helps. Obviously, this response is my opinion based on what I see in the instructions and experience to date. You may choose to do it differently.

Been awhile since I've posted an update. Slowly getting back into it after being gone a while plus usual life happenings. Planning to post an update later today.

edwardb

04-20-2019, 04:21 PM

After two plus weeks gone, including to the Texas Cobra Club Spring Meet, family visit, and other stuff to take care of, ended up with several weeks away from the build. Finally, back at it this week with some limited hours. Hasn't been a single good driving day since we got back. Michigan is taking it’s time letting go of winter and now multiple days of rain. Put 600+ miles on the Roadster in Texas, so certainly have had some driving time to start the season. Our local club events start in earnest next weekend, so hoping for the best. Meanwhile, getting back into the build.

My focus is getting the body installation wrapped up. Nothing huge to report but made some progress. Down to just a few items, but always seems to take longer than I expected. First up was the rear wheel splash panels. They fit really well with just some very minor tweaking. Even though I’m not expecting to take the Coupe body off once it’s completed, I still decided to not rivet them in place but rather use nutserts as I’ve done on the Roadster builds. The rear quarters on the Coupe wrap around underneath a lot. Almost horizontal and close to the gas tank. Doesn’t matter so much on the left (drivers) side. But on the right (passenger) side, being able to remove the splash panel provides much better access to the fuel filler, fuel filter, and fuel lines out of the tank. So, I put five 10-32 nutserts in each side. Four are through the hatch sidewall. One is into the frame. The other change I made was to the anchor on the bottom outside corners where they attach to the fiberglass body. Like I’ve done on the Roadsters, I bonded a 10-32 perforated base stud with HSRF on the inside of the body rather than put a bolt through the body. In the process, decided the tabs on the splash guards didn’t accommodate that very well. So cut them off, made my own out of sheet steel, and riveted to the bottom corner. I’ll get the panels powder coated along with a few other remaining parts, put some undercoat on the tire facing side, and they’ll be ready to install.

Right side. Left is the same.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106066&d=1555791939

Both sides of the bottom corner with the riveted tab and bonded stud. I’ll use a lock nut at final assembly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106067&d=1555791945

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106064&d=1555791925

Next up was the other side of the rear wheel wells. Here Factory Five provided some filler pieces in the aluminum panel update set mentioned previously. They’re pretty unusual pieces and it isn’t completely obvious at first how they’re supposed to be oriented and installed. At least I found that to be the case. But figured them out (and marked “left” and “right” and “up” on the pieces so I didn’t have to keep figuring it out every time I picked one up…) and got them fitted. They fit reasonably well. But much better with a little tweaking, bending, and scribing the edges to match the body a little closer. Even then though, the hole for the roll cage bar in that area is way oversized. Today I made some filler pieces that I’ll rivet on before powder coat. Not pictured. The completed pieces will be held in place with two rivets through the hatch sides and a healthy bead of caulking at final assembly. Should do the job.

Left side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106069&d=1555791959

Right side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106068&d=1555791951

No pictures (not very useful) but I final riveted the hatch sides and shock tower covers, so they’re now completed as well. The instructions say to not install the hatch sides until the body is installed. But I’ve found the body goes on/off with them in place with no issues. The rear cockpit corners, on the other hand, do need to wait until the body is installed as the instructions say. So I just have those cleco’d for now.

edwardb

04-20-2019, 04:22 PM

Next up was the left and right firewall extensions and inner firewall extensions. The instructions say both must wait until the body is installed as well. Agreed for the firewall extensions. But looks like there’s no issue with riveting the inner extensions now. One thing though. The firewall extensions (the larger vertical piece) cover up the door hinges. So, they need to be removable. Unless you think you’ll never need to adjust the door hinges. (!!) I’ll be using nutserts on mine. Not completed yet.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106070&d=1555791966

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106071&d=1555791975

Last up, while in Texas and visiting with Henry (65 Cobra Dude) he suggested a Coupe mod that was apparently popular with the previous generation Coupes. Finished parts are listed at Whitby, but they’re for the Gen 2. So rather than adapt (even though not hard I guess) I’m going to make my own. Starting with these parts for $18 from Amazon. Many will recognize what this is for. But I’ll leave it a mystery for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106072&d=1555791997

That’s it. Back to the shop.

Jeff Kleiner

04-20-2019, 05:21 PM

....Many will recognize what this is for. But I’ll leave it a mystery for now....

"Ohhhh! Ohhhh! I know! Pick me! Pick me!" He says while waving his hand in the air :)

Looking good Paul!

Jeff

SSNK4US

04-20-2019, 08:13 PM

Ok so I know NOTHING about coupe mods... and I’ve never owned a pair or even been on them before (just the old school 4 wheel type and even some metal wheel types lol) But just the visual and my logical mind of seeing things.....
I know what they are, but what the heck do you do with them???? Can’t wait for the answer ;)

Kurt

wareaglescott

04-20-2019, 09:03 PM

Wheelie bar???

Looking good Paul. Glad to see you are back at it.
Can you go ahead and start a list and put me on top of people wanting to buy this car when you are ready to move on to the next?

edwardb

04-20-2019, 10:16 PM

Wheelie bar???

No, that's not it. But interesting... :cool:
https://oi867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Misc%20Pics/th_burning%20rubber_zpsurneon46.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Misc%20Pics/burning%20rubber_zpsurneon46.jpg.html)

GoDadGo

04-20-2019, 10:20 PM

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

The Daytona would be perfect with 502 or 572 BBC with a Turbo 400 or Power Glide to pound the 1/4 Mile.

Anyway, the more you document the more I'm convinced that I can't build one of these suckers.

I'll Stay Tuned Sir Edwardb (aka: Mr. Paul) As Always!

edwardb

04-20-2019, 10:22 PM

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

SSNK4US

04-21-2019, 12:48 AM

Ohhhhhhh I knew roller blade wheels but no clue for what.
My thanks to The Dark side!

Kurt

Jeff Kleiner

04-21-2019, 07:08 AM

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

Rollers, from skates, to guide the hood clam-shell down would be my guess or maybe you are fabbing up some skates.

Winner! Give that man a chocolate Easter bunny :)

Jeff

Higgybulin

04-21-2019, 08:25 AM

Spoiler alert. One of the guesses is right. :rolleyes:

Those are from American hockey skates!!

jdavis500

04-22-2019, 03:50 PM

OK. So just bought my wheels. I will stay tuned to find out how I are going to install them.

jdavis500

04-25-2019, 11:00 AM

Curioius if you plan on cutting any access ports in the hatch area for tail light access?

edwardb

04-25-2019, 04:00 PM

Curioius if you plan on cutting any access ports in the hatch area for tail light access?

At this point I'm not planning to. There's some room to reach between the inside of the body and the rear hatch cover. But don't know if that will be adequate. We'll see. I will definitely make the wires long enough so that the connectors (planning all Weatherpacks) come through the holes when the light mounting nuts are removed from the inside. So that's all you would have to reach. Also all the lights are LED's so theoretically have a long life and limited service requirements. He says with great optimism... Wiring up all the lights will be the next thing I work on if I ever finish messing around with the body.

Erik W. Treves

04-26-2019, 07:14 AM

you will want to seal that area of the firewall extensions VERY well... the heat that comes through there will not be what you want... make sure you spray foam that area at the very bottom of the pontoon as well.. you will want to seal that inside corner... I got some smaller bulb seal where you have that large seal then continued it down around that inside corner.. I would compare this to the cobra area right above the door hinge that everyone complains about air getting into the cabin... we normally use pool noodles there but in the coupe it isn't possible... I also spayed foam with the door open in that area... I made a tube extension and sprayed all in behind that spot low on the pontoon.... sealed up nice and at least gives the AC a fighting chance.... the big horizontal rear glass in the sun just acts a natural heater btw! I will probably end up putting some light tint on there at some point as well.

BTW, if you don't put that rear aluminum deck piece on until after you drop the body on - you will have no problem getting to the tail lights... you will be in that area to secure the rear body mounts anyway... no issue.

just my observations thus far... 2700 miles and counting! Autox and car shows this weekend!!

edwardb

04-26-2019, 09:35 PM

edwardb

04-26-2019, 09:43 PM

Well my teaser picture of the inline skate wheels created a few more comments than I was expecting, and their purpose was correctly identified on both forums. Today I have the hood rollers basically completed. Still need the brackets powder coated then will bolt on for good. This is another one of those optional upgrades, but really is a nice addition. It's a bit inconvenient raising and lowering the hood (or cowl in this case I guess) and typically had to go back and forth on each side a couple times to keep it from hitting the corner of the body opening or trying to knock off the lowest bumper on each side. Or ask someone to help and spread as it opened and closed. With the rollers in place, it’s a one-person job from one side and is effortless without hitting anything. I removed the bottom bumper on each side because the rollers provide the same function in that area. Super nice mod that I highly recommend.

As I mentioned previously, a complete version is listed at Whitby’s. But are for the previous Gen Coupes. They mount in an area below the latching U-bolts. The Gen 3 is changed in that area, so can’t mount in the same place or fashion. Could be mounted to the aluminum footbox sides, and probably would be just fine. But I decided to come up with a design more compatible with the Gen 3. Plus, I did it for about one third the cost, if you consider the time spent free of course. Like budget is much of a consideration at this point. :rolleyes:

After even more sitting and staring, decided to mount them to the side of the steel bracket that the U-bolts are attached to. They angle back to the frame and have a relatively large surface to attach to. First made a pattern out of cardboard. Then made some very rough concept pieces out of .040 aluminum. Could have left the bracket square like the cardboard pattern. But decided they needed a little more flair so add the circles where the wheels mount. Ended up looking a little like Micky Mouse ears. After some tweaking and changes, liked what I had and made the final pieces from .125 thick 6061 aluminum. I was going to make them out of mild sheet steel. But decided on the aluminum since it’s so much easier to work with considering the tools I have. I’m very satisfied with the strength. They’re solid and work perfectly.

There’s already a slot in the U-bolt mount, so used that for two mounting bolts. I lengthened it on the outside of the footbox so that one bolt could be on the outside. Both bolts could be inside. But I wanted one closer to the bend and the rollers to provide as much rigidity as possible. For the inside one, had to open the slot slightly for the 5/16-inch carriage bolts I used. A smaller bolt size could work, but I had those on hand so used them. The minor mods to the frame U-bolt mounts was easy on the side with the access cover. Not so easy on the other side where I have all the aluminum finalized. If you’re thinking about this mod and mount them the same way, highly recommend fitting them up before mounting the aluminum panels. Would be much easier. Here are pics.

Developing the concept and rough prototypes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106385&d=1556329877

Driver side final version.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106386&d=1556329890

Passenger side final version with access cover off showing carriage bolt attachments, and with cover on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106387&d=1556329897

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106388&d=1556329905

Cut required in underside of cowl flange to clear roller assembly and U-bolt latches.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106389&d=1556329913

Next up I'll finalize the pontoon alignment pins and a little more remaining bodywork. Then on to final electrical and lighting. Completely off topic side note. My first build, a Mk3 Roadster with a warmed up 306 is owned by a good buddy in our local club and see it often. He had a Factory Five premium top put on it (those are really nice) and had a shop install the Saturn Vue electric power steering system. It’s now over 10,000 miles and hadn’t been tuned up since I sold it to him 5 years ago. He’s been doing the usual fluid changes, lube, etc. But hadn’t touched anything else on the engine. He asked if he could bring it over and have me check it out. It was fun getting my hands dirty on my old build. He’s taking great care of it and still looks brand new. Cleaned up the contacts in the MSD distributor and put some new plugs in it. Other than that, everything looked perfect and runs great. Was a good time with both friends. :o

WIS89

04-27-2019, 06:23 AM

Erik W. Treves

04-27-2019, 09:44 AM

I will steal that design for sure..... nicely executed Sir

edwardb

04-27-2019, 04:55 PM

Paul-

Skate wheel mod looks great, as with everything else you build... I have to remark on your confidence though (in a good way!!). I noticed that you didn't oval any of the holes where the wheels are mounted to allow for modest adjustments. I have to admire the fact that you were so confident in your measurements and execution, that you felt it unnecessary to allow for any adjustment! I on the other hand, would have allowed for a wide range of adjustment options!! I admire your skill and execution Paul!

As with all of your builds, I have enjoyed following along and look forward to seeing her all finished up! She looks terrific!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks for the generous comments Steve. I'm probably not quite as confident as you make it sound. Yes, I match drilled the mounting holes in the brackets to the holes in the frame U-bolt mounts. That with them adjusted right where I wanted them. But it's very likely they could require some tweaks later after the body has been off again, etc. If so, I'll slot the mounting holes in the roller brackets as needed. Easy to do in the aluminum and the way they're mounted there's room for them go in/out some. There's already some adjustment possible there. Initially I was going to use adjustment slots for the wheels themselves as you suggested. But these particular wheels if you tighten them down enough to where they would stay put in a slotted hole, they start binding up a bit. There's very little clearance between the inner sleeve of the bearings and the bearing surface itself. Not sure how they're installed in in-line skates. But mounted as shown here, you have be careful not to overtighten. So I decided having an exact size hole in the bracket for the wheels was important.

I will steal that design for sure..... nicely executed Sir

Thanks Erik. I borrowed heavily from the Gen 2 version. But steal away with this version.

edwardb

05-03-2019, 05:28 PM

One of the remaining tasks for my seemingly never-ending body fit-up was to get the cowl and pontoons lined up the way I wanted them. Seems like a pretty simple thing, but was a little more complicated once I dug into it. There were two issues, both that I’ve mentioned before. First, I had an alignment issue between the bottom of the cowl and top of the pontoon on the right side. OK at the back, but to a hard interference fit at the front behind the wheel. No amount of juggling the body or the cowl eliminated the problem without creating other issues. I could pull the pontoon down a little and anchor to the splash guard. But not nearly enough. So I’ve left it to now to resolve. Second, I found that the gas shocks push the cowl out of alignment when it’s closed. Without anything holding it, moves the entire cowl forward 3/16 to 1/4-inch when you close it. Kind of a big deal, and not good if you want everything to line up nicely and position consistently. Some have solved the problem by removing the gas shocks and using a prop rod arrangement instead. That’s a good solution, but I wanted to stay with the gas shocks if possible

Part of the solution for both issues is alignment pins for the front of the pontoons. The kit provided some receptacle pieces for one side. But the pins provided were much smaller than the 3/8-inch holes in the receptacles. Plus, they were plain pins with no obvious way to mount. Talking to other builders, seems I was probably provided the wrong size pins, as 3/8-inch ones are apparently available. But rather than pursue that, fabricated my own pins and mounts. One of the challenges here is the pins not only need to do the alignment task, but IMO need to be robust enough to catch and hold the cowl against the forward push of the gas struts.

First up though was to fix the alignment issue between the cowl and the pontoon. After a lot of consideration, decided a little glass work was my only option. I cut through the glass at the top corner of the pontoon about 18-inches back from the front corner. Then made another tapered cut starting about 1/4-inch wide at the front down to zero at approximately 18-inches. Then, using the closed cowl and paint stick pieces as spacers, glued the edge back down with HSRF to provide the needed clearance. When that set up, put a healthy filet of HSRF on the inside of the corner where I cut. Then added two layers of 8-ounce glass on the inside with vinyl ester resin. Turned out pretty well with just a little bit of additional HSRF filler. Now I had the clearance and alignment I needed.

Next I made the alignment pins and mounts out of 1/4-inch flat steel stock and cut down 3/8-inch SS bolts. Tapped the hole in the mount for the 3/8 x 16 threaded portion of the pin and used a jam nut on the bottom. Looked like this before installing. The bottom piece is the receptacle provided in the kit. Had to trim one edge slightly to fit where I wanted it. Note this is an early picture. I had to make new longer pins. Slight miscalculation. :(

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106658&d=1556919039

Won’t go through all the steps, but got the cowl and pontoons positioned where I wanted them and clamped everything down. Then attached the pontoons to the lower splash guards. Then located the holes for the alignment pins and receptacles. I bonded the pieces in with HSRF, and don’t plan to have anything removable except the pin itself. Since there wasn’t a lot of surface area on the receptacles to bond to, I added a couple 8-32 bolts in each.

Left side pin mounted to the steel plate bonded underneath in the front corner of the pontoon.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106659&d=1556919047

Mating receptacle mounted on the inside of the cowl. Ditto everything for the right side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106660&d=1556919054

I’m pleasantly surprised how this turned out. Between the gas struts, the rollers shown in the last update, and now the mostly self-guiding alignment pins, the cowl easily drops down into place and latches in exactly the same place every time. The alignment pins easily manage the push from the struts. There will be some minor body work, but generally the gaps and panel alignment turned out really well. Hopefully my body/paint guy will appreciate all the work here! I did have to sand the profile some where the cowl and pontoons meet at the rear of the front wheel wells. With that, the wheel well outlines match reasonably well. That was one of the areas I was focused on. I’ve noticed on some Coupes that area doesn't align very well. Couple of quick side views. You can see the repair I made on the right side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106661&d=1556919060

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106662&d=1556919068

Now that I have this part done, I can do some final tweaking on the cowl to body gap and that’s it. Only remaining fiberglass work is to get the rear spoiler fitted and I’m going to cut in a third brake light. I’ll be glad to move on from this part of the build.

Ltngdrvr

05-03-2019, 07:31 PM

You really are very meticulous, and seem to have an abundance of patience!

Alphamacaroon

05-04-2019, 03:58 PM

Ltngdrvr

05-04-2019, 04:24 PM

edwardb

05-04-2019, 04:36 PM

@edwardb,

I also ordered the Tilton tri-reservoir for my hydraulic lines and am trying to figure where to mount it. Before I saw your thread I came to the same conclusion you did by mounting it right in front of the left foot box (I don't have my engine yet, so it was the only place that seemed like it would be out of the way no matter what).

My question: are you happy with the placement there? My only concern after looking at it more is that it's right above the header— are you concerned that the emissive heat/IR from a hot header could melt it?

No, I'm not worried about that location at all. It's 9 inches from the bottom of the reservoirs mounted in that location to the closest point on the headers and free air around both. I believe there's more than enough air movement that after the first few inches away from the headers, the air temp will be roughly underhood ambient temp. Granted, not cool, but nowhere near hot enough to bother the reservoirs. Per Tilton specs, they're made from fiberglass reinforced nylon which has a melting temp > 400 F (200 C). Reinforced vinyl ester fiberglass (what the body is made from) is in the same range. If the reservoirs are at risk in that location, there are bigger problems to deal with. :eek:

One other note. I mounted the reservoirs based on an early check with the cowl mocked up in place. Now that I have the cowl mounted in its final location, I can confirm there is about 1-1/2 inches of clearance from the caps up to the cowl. So they could be mounted slightly higher than what I did. But I wouldn't go too much higher, and not needed anyway IMO.

Just cut yourself a little piece of aluminum to mount under it to shield it from the heat.

Appreciate your interest and response, but not needed per above based on actual details from the build.

Alphamacaroon

05-05-2019, 12:00 PM

edwardb

05-05-2019, 01:34 PM

Much appreciated. I'm probably going to ceramic coat my headers, so I'm sure it will be fine. I was going to ask about the clearance— I assume you mounted the bolts about half-way up through the frame bar? Do you have any measurements front-to-rear or did you mount it about half-way there too?

I used 1/4-inch heavy duty nutserts and bolts to attach the reservoir to the inner frame rail. Through bolts could work too. I just didn't want them showing on the engine side. I don't remember exactly what the height was on the frame rail for the bolts. Wherever they needed to be to get the height as shown. They're not the same for the front and back since the frame rail is angled down slightly to the front and I wanted the reservoirs level. It gets a little tight to drill holes and install nutserts, especially the front one. But got it done. Mine is 1-1/2 inches from the front of the DS footbox. Far enough away to get decent routing on the hoses. It could be further since there's nothing to interfere with, but the space to work in gets tighter the further forward you go.

As far as headers, my answer is the same with or without ceramic coated headers. I'll be running polished SS headers, same as my Roadster. Ceramic coating does give lower external temps, but again they're far enough away that the reservoir isn't at risk.

edwardb

05-12-2019, 03:51 PM

Since the last update, finished glass prep work on the spoiler, got it mounted, and have all the lights mostly mounted. Nothing wired yet. I’ll get the weather packs ordered and wrap this up. The lights are the ones I discussed back in post #106. 100% LED’s.

For the spoiler, trimmed it to a 3/4-inch flange all around, had a couple spots on the edge that needed a little repair, then determined the mounting holes. I’m mounting it with eighteen 8-32 SS button heads evenly spaced around. All pretty straightforward. I’ve mentioned before I wanted to add a third brake light to the spoiler. The light I picked (Maxxima M63319R LED) was too thick to just surface mount. Thought that would look a little clunky. But the space inside the spoiler wasn’t enough to completely flush mount. So took my time to lay out a hole in the spoiler that matched and came up with a mounting method that kind of suspends it in the hole. These pictures give an idea.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107085&d=1557690629

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107086&d=1557690636

With that, laid out the lights for the back. The running/stop/turn lights are the ones from the kit and I put them right where the manual says. Same for the license plate light and bracket. I’m installing back up lights, but not completely decided on this yet. I saw an idea in another build thread somewhere about putting the backup lights under the grilles on the back. Interesting idea. But after trimming the grilles to fit, the lights are too thick. So right now, I’m leaning toward the two smaller LED’s taped in place in the picture. Haven’t committed to drilling the holes yet. I have a single square LED backup light that could inset in the bottom center. But not feeling that look. Note the LED running/stop/turn lights from Factory Five are a bit oversize but are very bright. I like them a lot. The third brake light in the spoiler also has a low intensity running light circuit, which I will use. This thing should be very visible from the back. I don’t know about you, but I’ve done several cruises where the car in front of me had lights I could barely see. It’s a bit unnerving and I’m paying close attention. No telling what the average driver may/may not see. Don’t want to be that guy.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107088&d=1557690654

For the front, after some additional trimming to the factory cut openings, have the headlight buckets mounted. I’m using 8-32 SS screws and lock nuts versus the supplied self-tapping screws. Personal preference. Note also it’s necessary to locate and drill a hole in the body directly under the headlight trim retaining screws. No way to install those any other way. Mentioned in the manual but would be easy to miss. The running and turn signal lights mounted per the manual. I had to get a little creative to modify the flat mounts on the KC HiLiTES fog lights I'm using to mount centered in the round buckets. Easy fabrication that I won’t try to explain, but no big deal. Just more time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107089&d=1557690706

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107087&d=1557690647

That’s it for now. Happy Mother’s Day to all the mom’s out there.

shark92651

05-12-2019, 08:42 PM

I like the 3rd brake light, fits in with the car pretty well. I'm searching for a 3rd brake light option for the roadster, but haven't found one I'm crazy about just yet. I liked that Hella unit from NZ/Aus but apparently it is now discontinued. I am considering a bolt LED in each rollbar.

P100DHG

05-15-2019, 10:22 PM

edwardb

05-15-2019, 10:30 PM

I plan to command strip / removable tape my third brake light on to the rear roll bar pass DMV and after I pass go to the next parking lot and rip it off and never look back. Also I’m so far from doing this it’s still only a dream to get to that day.

I didn't install the third brake light for any regulatory reasons. Michigan inspection doesn't require it. I just want the added visibility.

Hang in there. You'll get there. :p

edwardb

05-16-2019, 04:58 PM

While waiting for weather pack connectors to arrive so I can wrap up the exterior lights, decided to tackle the rear glass hatch. The hatch itself is a beautiful piece. I’ve been handling it very carefully. I don’t know how much a replacement would cost, but don’t want to find out. It’s marked as made in the USA, and the DOT code shows it came from Auto Temp, Inc. in Batavia, Ohio. I’m impressed. Additionally, it fits the body opening perfectly. So good job by everyone there. Now to getting it hinged and working.

Some months ago, Factory Five sent a package with several updated aluminum panels, discussed previously. Also in that box were new hatch hinges. Two pieces for each side, and longer than the original ones that come with the kit. No explanation was provided for the new longer pieces. I seem to recall reading in an earlier build thread about the hinges hitting something before the hatch opened all the way. But that’s a vague memory and may not be correct. The manual shows taking a pretty big cut out of the body for the hinges, so also thought maybe that was the reason. But as I found out later still required a small relief cut. Whatever the reason, I'm using them.

The hinges are attached to the roof roll bar along the front of the hatch opening with clamps that have a pivot piece welded to them. I had them powder coated, so had to clean up the powder coat some for them to fit properly. But then fit well and are very robust. I assembled the arms onto the hinge mounts per the instructions, except that I changed out the little plastic bushings with bronze sleeve busings. They’re the same size as used lots of places on these builds (Roadster doors, trunk, etc.) and I had some around. Call me old school. I just like the bronze bushings better than plastic. Followed the instructions to install the hinge pieces, gas strut attachments, and latch onto the glass hatch. All nice quality parts and fit per the instructions.

The kit comes with a special self-adhesive gasket that goes around the hatch opening to seal and hold the perimeter spacing. Obviously, that can’t be installed until after paint. So stacked some wood spacers and taped them into the four corners of the opening so the glass sat up at the proper height. Then set the hatch in place and installed the hinges. It’s a little fiddly to get the roll bar clamp piece at the right place and the hinge arms aligned. But not bad. That’s when I found out I’d needed to cut the body to clear the hinges. Not nearly as much as shown in the manual though. Looked like this when done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107357&d=1558040926

Next up was the gas struts. Here there was a problem. The manual shows additional roll bar clamps along the hatch sides to attach the gas struts. No parts like that in the kit. Instead there were flat gas strut brackets provided. Just like the ones mounted in the front cowl. Looked through a number of build threads, and eventually found several builds that used these parts. Confirmed they were mounted along the side lip of the body hatch opening. Determined the proper location to mount them where the gas strut wouldn’t be bottomed out and attached. Like I’ve done in other places, mounted them permanently with HSRF on the inside. Just used two bolts since they’re bonded plus the third would be very close to the edge. I’m going to change the bolts pictured here and countersink, bury, and eventually paint over.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107358&d=1558040933

Finally, dealt with the latch. The kit provides a somewhat small catch and a spacer. Probably would work OK, but looked a little wimpy to me and I didn’t care for the added spacer. So quickly fabbed a new piece out of 1-inch aluminum 90° angle stock. Looks better (IMO…) and has a larger contact surface on the body. I cut a real short piece of the gasket material and used it to set the location. I can adjust further when put on for good. Also need to paint or powder coat the catch and the new hinge arms.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107359&d=1558040940

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107360&d=1558040947

That’s it. Really happy with how this turned out. Opens and closes nicely. The gas struts are just the right weight. Opens high enough that I shouldn't crack my head against it. But we'll see.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107356&d=1558040918

Now back to electrical. The box just arrived.

Ltngdrvr

05-16-2019, 09:50 PM

Doesn't look like that latch has a lock, does it?

edwardb

05-16-2019, 10:03 PM

Doesn't look like that latch has a lock, does it?

Nope. Same with the doors and the hood/cowl. Only lock on the whole car is the ignition key, which in this case is a keyless system using an RFID keyfob. Any could be different if you want.

JohnK

05-19-2019, 11:33 PM

edwardb

05-20-2019, 06:12 AM

Sorry to pull up an old post, but I"m at the point in my build where I need to figure out the coyote bottom clutch switch and I really like the solution you came up with. I do have a couple of questions. First, is there a concern with the bracket you made rotating out of position and possibly jamming the clutch movement? It appears that it's only secured by the jam nut on the clutch MC rod. What's keeping it from pivoting on that rod? Secondly, is it safe/wise to use the coyote clutch switch as the clutch pedal limiter, or should I add a separate clutch pedal travel limiter elsewhere?

Thanks,
John

Yes, that bracket actuating the switch is held in place by the jam nut against the clevis. Anything's possible of course, but no I'm not concerned about it coming loose or pivoting. With the thread size of the pushrod and the hardened nut, it's possible to get a good torque on that connection. Plus a dab of blue Loctite when all is adjusted. It's locked down very well and there's little/no stress on it including to push the switch button. In the extremely unlikely event that it would come loose, it can't rotate as far as you might think. Note that it's tight against the clevis/pedal connection, which would limit how much it could rotate. But bottom line, it's not going anywhere. I have a very similar setup in Roadster #8674 that's now in its third driving season and 4,200+ miles. Going strong and no sign of any issues.

As far as using the Coyote clutch switch for a clutch stop, absolutely not. The switch isn't intended for that and neither is this actuator setup. You can see the word "on" on the switch plunger. I marked that where the switch closes, confirmed via a continuity tester or VOM. I have it adjusted so when the clutch pedal is all the way down, the plunger is in the that range. But the switch isn't completely bottomed out there and you wouldn't want it to be.

Since you asked, here is my experience and opinion about a clutch stop. I know not everyone will agree, but I'll throw it out there anyway. If you're stopping the clutch pedal short of its available throw that means you're trading travel for effort, meaning you might be making the clutch pedal effort harder than it needs to be. I want the clutch pedal effort to be as low as possible. For my builds, I always have the clutch pedal exactly the same level as the brake pedal. That's the starting point. With the exception of my first build, have used hydraulic clutch setups, and matched the master and slave cylinders so that the clutch was fully released and the slave not over-extended with the pedal against the floor. That means sometimes using a different master cylinder. But in the end, you're getting the lowest possible pedal effort by using all available throw. I know it's a subtle difference. But I've found it does matter. Some don't like pushing against the back wall, and if so use a pedal stop. But (a) it's more substantial than you might think (IMO...), and (b) at least for me, it's pretty much at the end of where I can reach with my leg straight out, so whatever push I have left at that point is weak at best. People tend to look at the .040 aluminum and think it's not very strong. By itself, it has limitations for sure. But fully attached around the perimeter and often with additional cross pieces, it's a stressed skin that is surprisingly strong. Add the padding of insulation and carpet, and the back wall works as a stop for me. Again, to emphasize, if that's the appropriate location for your setup. Obviously doesn't work if you need to stop before then.

JohnK

05-20-2019, 09:28 AM

Thank you!

edwardb

05-25-2019, 02:55 PM

Today I received a question about the plumbing for the Moroso expansion tank. Note this is plumbed exactly the same for the Gen 2 (as in my #8674 Roadster) and the Gen 3 here. Note also, just to confirm, this is different than the Factory Five Coyote instructions which cap the fittings and use a traditional T-filler in the top radiator hose and a manual overflow tank. Not going to debate the merits of the two, other than (1) This setup is duplicating the Ford engineering cooling system setup, and (2) Makes "burping" the system relatively painless.

The Moroso tank has three connections. Two go to the engine, one to the top of the radiator. This previously posted picture shows the two engine connections. "D" is the connection to the bottom of the expansion tank (the large hose), "E" is the connection to the top of the expansion tank pointing back at the engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99521&d=1545753516

The connection on the front of the Moroso tank goes to the top of the radiator. On the left (driver) side of the FFR provided radiator, the valve needs to be removed. Then replaced with a fitting. I used a Gardner-Westcott J9033 Hose Barb to Pipe Fitting. But anything similar could be used. I used the following parts to complete the installation:

Reservoir Cap DG9Z-8100-A
Reservoir Hose FR3Z-8276-B Top/back of reservoir to engine. Required an extension to reach the engine.
Overflow Hose FR3Z-8075-C Top/front of reservoir to radiator, with check valve (expensive). Required an extension to reach the radiator.
Connector Hose FR3Z-8C289-B Bottom of reservoir to engine. Installed as is.

All from Tasca Parts, but other sources could be used as well. Note for the hoses, one can be used as is. The other two required extensions. You could make your own without the Ford parts I guess, except for the one with the check valve. It's required for the setup to work properly.

One other comment. There was a lot of discussion, which I started, about the height of the tank. Mounted at the location I'm using, after considering several locations and everything that has to fit in front of the engine, mine is lower than a Mustang tank and lower than how it can be installed in a Roadster. The Coupe chassis and the size of the Coyote engine make for limited mounting locations. Here's what I've learned about this location so far: (1) It is necessary to fill the system through the left side heater hose connection. Filling into the tank (the usual method) doesn't work. Fluid doesn't flow uphill. :p. It's easy enough to do since the heater hose connection is a quick connect. (2) Once the heater connection location is full, I topped the expansion tank to about 3/4 full. (3) After several engine runs and full temperature cycles, as expected the level in the tank did drop as air came out of the system. (4) I topped the expansion tank again to about 3/4 full. It's stable there based on additional engine runs. (5) While not driving yet, the cooling system and engine temps seem to be working perfectly normal based on a number of lengthy engine runs. It's a sealed system, and once full of fluid, is working via pressure not solely by gravity. Just to allay another concern, as concluded in the discussion many pages ago, while lower than usual, the tank is still above the level of the coolant in the heads. Other than the slight inconvenience of the initial fill, I'm convinced it's working OK. But obviously will watch it closely once actual driving begins.

edwardb

05-28-2019, 10:45 PM

I am now officially done with electrical! I don’t mind wiring and pretty much understand it. But still a big milestone to be done. And all working. Over the last few days, have all the lights installed, weather pack connectors installed, etc. Tried to be neat about it, as much as possible anyway. Fortunately the rear wiring is all covered once the rear hatch wall is installed. But the front not so much. On full display when you open the cowl. Did my best… Here are pictures of the front. The LED headlights have a small power supply or controller of some sort. I made brackets and mounted them on the back of the buckets. Similar to what I did with #8674, except those were a different brand and also several years ago. So much larger. I used the standard 3-prong headlight connectors since those were on the LED harnesses. Not protected at all outside the headlight bucket. I’ll put a piece of shrink sleeving around the connections at final assembly. The LED fog lights had very nice AMP weatherproof connectors, so left those. I'll add grommets at final assembly for the cables coming out of the fog light buckets. The other small LED’s (turn and running) now have weather packs. I used two single cavity connectors on each rather than a double cavity. The double wouldn’t have fit through the mounting hole. I’ll tidy this up a bit more with tie wraps at final assembly. Note when doing this don’t forget to consider the open and closed cowl positions. The wiring bundle moves a bit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107997&d=1559099008

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107999&d=1559099025

The instruction manual shows placing the horns in the engine compartment on the lower LH side. Would have fit there I guess. But missed it and already routed the wires when I reconfigured the front harness up to where I’ve normally placed the horns on Roadster builds. Had to place them carefully to stay well clear of the turning tires plus the moving cowl. But they fit here just fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107998&d=1559099018

One final comment about the wiring. In the past, many of us considered the grounding circuit on the RF harness to be a little marginal. I saw recommended on another build site back on my first Mk3 Roadster to add additional grounds at each of the four corners, e.g. in the vicinity of the lights. Basically, take the ground wire in the harness at each corner, route to a cleaned chassis location, then attach another ground wire to this same location and route to the devices on that corner. Accomplishes two things: Gives a clean and solid ground close to the devices plus provides a redundant ground for the entire chassis harness. All three of my Roadsters are wired this way. When I received the Coupe kit I noted it had a newer revised RF harness. Had seen it discussed in several build threads. Among the changes I noticed is the ground circuits are beefed up over previous versions. Everything is still dependent on a single chassis ground connection near the fuse panel. But the number of ground wires and gauge of the wires in the harness were all improved. So with that, I still added redundant grounds front and back on this build. But only one in the front and one in the back. Same idea as already mentioned. I took the main ground wire from the front and rear harness to a cleaned chassis location at their respective corners, cut the wire, added a ring terminal and grounded that. Then added another ring terminal to the cut wire and stacked onto the other one. In both cases, the chassis tube at that point was thick enough that I could tap and make enough threads. They're held in place with my usual 10-32 flanged head button screws. Once everything was done, covered the connection with electronics grade (non-corrosive) RTV. Conductive grease would be OK, I just prefer the RTV. But has to be the right type. I wouldn't call this modification mandatory. But IMO is cheap insurance to reduce ground circuit issues.

Just for grins, my wife helped me make a couple of quick iPhone videos of the front and rear lights working. Nothing too earth shattering, but decided to share. Note everything front and back is LED. Some from the kit. Others I added. Detailed in an earlier post. Everything is very bright and will be easily seen day or night. No extra charge for the usual nightly racket from the wetlands behind our house.

Front lighting: https://youtu.be/Ji9H-2ejMDw

Rear lighting: https://youtu.be/AAzI1ulTMV8

Finally, also wrapped up the fuel filler and tank vent. I followed the instructions in the manual to cut the SS filler tube and piece together with supplied flex tubing. Worked out pretty well. Two minor issues: The right angle flex connection out of the LeMans cap ended up hard against the edge of the opening in the hatch side wall. So I extended the bottom of the cutout in the side wall to clear. Didn't think it should be dragging directly on the edge. Meant moving the cover that goes inside the hatch area down a bit and leaves an opening at the top. I think it would have been too short anyway. Maybe FF didn’t plan to have that area sealed. But I want it to be. I’ll add some pieces onto the cover to fill the gap. Totally hidden behind the body and under carpet when done.

The other little issue I had was the usual fuel filler retainer ring really didn’t fit the tank or frame location. It’s their standard piece, and should be bent the other direction to fit IMO. Rather than mess with it, I made my own retainer similar to ones I’ve made for two of my Roadster builds. 1/8-inch aluminum, split tubing, and a couple 1/4-inch nutserts. Does what the ring is supposed to do, plus adds a little stability to the filler going into the tank. Finally, also made the usual activated charcoal canister for the vent line out of the tank from ABS plumbing pieces. While not completely necessary, the ALL36125 Allstar Performance tank bracket is a perfect fit to hold it in place. You can also just see the ground wire from the underside of the LeMans cap to the chassis. I made my own out of a piece of 12 gauge insulated wire and ring terminals. The kit provided braided ground is OK, but the ring terminals are quite large, and this worked better for me. All this is all hidden behind the rear splash panel, and with the wraparound of the Coupe body, nearly hidden from the bottom as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108000&d=1559099032

Made a list today of items yet to complete before going for my paint quote and getting that scheduled. Fit on one page! Making progress.

edwardb

05-31-2019, 07:18 AM

Posted a new thread on this, but thought I put in in my build thread as well. Getting down to some final details on my Gen 3 Coupe build before paint. I'm fitting the Factory Five window kit and deciding I'm not happy with the mis-match between the straight windows and the curved edge of the doors. I've seen a couple in person, and seems typical and the solution is to put a cushion or gasket of some kind along the door edge. That would work but there's not a lot of contact area on either the door or the window and seems to me straightening the door edge would be the better choice. Especially since I'm at a stage where that's possible. The max gap is about 1/4-inch on the DS, and 5/16-inch on the PS. I'd like to build up the edge to make the door edge straight and close the gap. I suspect the windows will be left on most of the time, so the edge would be relatively protected. But I don't know that for sure. Either way it needs to be strong and also not picture through to the paint. Looking for suggestions. Don't pretend to be an expert about this at all.

I've done some searching and watched some videos. Seems I need to taper back on the top and bottom so there's something to grip plus reduce the chance of a line showing through. That's easy enough and assume I need to remove the gel coat near the joint anyway. I'm thinking I would put some tape or whatever on the window and use as a mold for the edge. Then some foam or gasket or whatever along the bottom to create a dam. Then fill the edge and coat/recoat/sand as needed to blend. I have some vinyl ester resin and chopped glass. That's one choice although I admit don't particularly like to work with that stuff. I also have 3M HSRF, which I've had great luck with would like to use unless someone has a better suggestion. Worried though this might be too large a gap to fill that way. Looking for some expert opinions here. Thanks in advance.

Driver side. About 1/4-inch max gap.
https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1357_zpse5yz8vbq.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1357_zpse5yz8vbq.jpg.html)

Passenger side. About 5/16-inch max gap.
https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1358_zps9na9pwjk.jpg (https://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1358_zps9na9pwjk.jpg.html)

https://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1360_zps8aqtl4sa.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Daytona%20Coupe/Misc%20Pics/IMG_1360_zps8aqtl4sa.jpg.html)

David Williamson

05-31-2019, 08:08 AM

edwardb

05-31-2019, 10:24 AM

I had the body shop make the top of the door straight to fit the window exactly like you are showing. Not sure what he used to build it up but it was a fibre glass filler. I have not decided what to use as a gasket yet, will get to it in a few weeks when I get the car back and start the final assembly.
David W

Thanks. Appreciate your response. I saw that in your paint post, and truth be known is one of the reasons I questioned why I should leave mine the way it was. Only thing missing was how they did it and with what. Getting some good answers.

edwardb

06-06-2019, 11:37 AM

Thanks for the responses on repairing the glass to fill the gaps between the tops of the doors and the windows. It was kind of a pain, to be totally honest. But it’s done and I think turned out well. With more body work, primer, paint, etc. they will disappear and give a much better appearance than the uneven gaps on both sides. Details make a difference.

I ended up using 3M HSRF. I was able to adjust the windows and get the gaps slightly smaller than I pictured before. I decided the gaps were just too irregular to glue on fill pieces. Resin with filler, chopped glass, etc. potentially would be a little stronger. But I had the HSRF and am familiar with using it. Plus, I do expect the windows will stay on most of the time. So the edge will usually be protected. Not that I think the result is fragile. It isn’t at all. This is the process I used. First sanded a 1/8-inch plus bevel with 80 grit paper on the top of the doors through the gel goat. Plus roughed up the remaining edges plus about 1/2-inch back on the gel coat along the top. Then used clear packing tape to wrap all the parts of the windows that would be in contact with the HSRF, and gave them several coats of car wax so they would release. Then with the windows in place, put wood strip fillers along the bottom edges with double back tape to dam the HSRF when pushed into place. The wood strips had the same clear packing tape and wax treatment.

With everything in place, filled the gaps with HSRF. Did it in two applications. First pushed firmly in to make sure everything was filled. Second to get as straight and even with the top of the door contours as possible. HSRF is not easy to sand if you haven’t heard that before. :p After a couple hours, popped the windows off and they released relatively easily. Removed the door shells and finished them on the workbench in the basement. There were a couple places to fill and touch up, but generally turned out well. Sanded the top and bottom flush with the doors. There’s a very slight ridge along the top edges. HSRF just doesn’t feather out like Rage Gold or whatever, plus is hard as a rock. But it’s straight and even, and one pass with body filler during paint should blend it completely. This morning put everything back together and it’s a huge improvement. I’ll add a thin piece of self-adhesive gasket or whatever at final assembly and should be good. Couple pictures of the finished product. The pictures are a little shadowy. The final gap is about 1/32-inch plus, and most importantly even all the way across.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108416&d=1559834987

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108415&d=1559834979

I also finished mounting the Peter Brock sourced side mirrors I showed earlier. He provides detailed instructions including the recommended locations. They’re for a Superformance Coupe, but the locations seem to be fine here as well. He provides a backing plate and locknuts. But I decided I wanted the backing plate and nuts to be permanently captured so I didn’t have to reach inside the doors to mount and remove the mirrors. Especially since I’m planning door cards that will close the openings in the doors, and also because the mirrors are pretty wide and I may have to remove if/when using my existing trailer. So I made new backing plates out of 16 gauge steel and captured some flanged nuts with a second piece of aluminum and a 6-32 bolt. No pictures, but a simple fabrication and now bonded in place at the two mirror locations inside the doors. Mirrors are very solid, and easy to take on/off from the outside only with a ball end hex driver.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108414&d=1559834970

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108413&d=1559834959

Two more items off the list! Doesn’t get old seeing this sitting in my garage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=108411&d=1559834944

Tomorrow we have a club event that should be pretty amazing. I’ll find out how much I can talk about it after it’s over. Kinda sorta a track day unlike anything I’ve done with the Roadster. Stay tuned.

GoDadGo

06-06-2019, 01:43 PM

Great Job As Always!

How Hard Was It To Sand?

Looks Picture Perfect To Me!

edwardb

06-06-2019, 07:30 PM

Great Job As Always!

How Hard Was It To Sand?

Looks Picture Perfect To Me!

Thanks! First order of business is to apply the HSRF so that minimal sanding is required. In this case, I did have some squeeze through the bottom in a couple places. One I cut off with a hacksaw. The rest I sanded down with a drum sander on my Dremel. No way I would have tried those with hand sanding. But the balance was hand sanded with 80 grit paper on various sanding blocks. I've found the 80 grit cloth backed sandpaper roll from HF (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-34-in-x-25-ft-80-Grit-Sandpaper-Roll-63334.html) is decent quality and relatively economical for what it is. Of course with obligatory 20% off coupons. One of the keys is you just have to change paper a lot. Once it stops cutting, start another piece. That's a carryover from my woodworking days I guess. I found people all the time that complained something was hard to sand, and the problem was their sandpaper was worn out and not cutting. You also have to realize HSRF will never feather out like regular filler. Partly because of the 80 grit paper but also just the nature of HSRF. 3M even says in their own literature "...for non-fairing applications." I also usually try to sand after curing only an hour or two. Fills the paper a little more, but sands a bit easier.

Erik W. Treves

06-08-2019, 05:17 PM

mine is/was the exact same way.... i just put a seal on the window side... course mine was painted.... then I got my windows :)

edwardb

06-18-2019, 03:35 PM

Another one of my to-do items was to address the Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. Dressing up the Coyote is not an easy task, and Ford made the Gen 3 even more difficult with the added plumbing for the Direct Injection (DI) system. With the additions, they gave up on coil covers and extended the intake manifold cover to hover over the heads. For the Mustang, this meant fitting them around the shock towers and other underhood components. So made for a “different” look to say the least.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81987&d=1520114923

Mocked up in the Gen 3 Coupe, didn’t look too great either. Plus is too wide for the chassis and too high for the cowl.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93100&d=1536778451

Needless to say, something is needed to cover some of this up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98346&d=1543447300

First thing I did was whack off the oddly shaped extensions or wings as they’re affectionally called.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99526&d=1545753567

Reasonable start, but decided I wanted some type of extensions that would cover more up but look like they belonged. And fit in the available space. Factory Five put a Gen 3 Coyote in a 33 Hot Rod. Has an aftermarket intake, but they fabricated some extensions that went over the heads a bit, and that was an additional inspiration. Even though mine didn’t turn out anything like theirs.

First thing I did was make some mockups out of cardboard. Played with different shapes, widths, etc. I ended up with them about 4-1/2 inches wide and shaped to sort of follow the lines of the existing intake cover. Wider would have covered up more. But just looked out of proportion to me. Plus started covering things up like the oil filler and dipstick. Then decided needed to do something to dress up the extensions. Considered routing some slots, like Factory Five did, but didn’t care for that look. Plus exposed what I was trying to cover up. Played around with a bead roller borrowed from a build buddy. Haven’t ever used anything like that. Had a little trouble getting straight lines. But in the end didn’t matter. It distorted the aluminum I wanted to use way too much. Plus it was kind of an old school hot rod look that didn’t really fit with the theme of the car or the more modern angular existing cover. What I finalized on was some 1/4-strips glued and riveted to the covers. Sort of matching some similar lines on the existing cover and had a look I was happy with. I don’t pretend to be a designer or particularly artistic, so this was the best I could come up with. Also considering what tools and capabilities I have. I am happy with the result though. Even though as usual it was more work and took longer than I expected.

What I did was trim the existing plastic cover down to where it was straight and had a 1/4-inch wide flat on the underside. Then made filler pieces from 1-inch wide by 1/4-inch thick aluminum. Bonded these to the underside of the cover with JB Weld plastic bonder, available at HD. Probably there is something out there more exotic that is stronger. But I drilled and tapped for some 4-40 flat head screws that add some additional mechanical strength. It’s sitting against a rib on the underside that has a filet of bonder against it. Bottom line, there isn’t a lot of stress and I don’t think it’s going anywhere. Then I made the extensions out of .040 aluminum, held onto the bottom of the 1/4-inch strip with a row of 4-40 screws. Then added the 1/4-inch strips on the top. Used JB Weld to stick down and hold. Then added 1/16-inch flat head rivets.

With the cover in place, found it was unstable in the front. The four balls that plug into grommets in the intake are toward the back of the cover and didn’t provide much support at the front. Ford also obviously saw this, because the Gen 3 cover has two added mounting points on the heads at the front. I made some brackets out of 16-gauge steel that matched up with those and attached to the bottom of the extensions. It’s a little bit of a dexterity test to reach under the extensions and start the nuts. But not something I expect to do too often and gives just the right amount of stability.

Enough talk. Here’s the final product. Just bare metal now. Will paint the body color when the car is painted along with the darker color plastic on the existing cover. The lighter color will stay the way it is. Hard to get a good angle with the cowl in the way, plus it’s a little bright in the shop with the sun shining. But I’ll take that after all the rain we’ve had. First picture from the bottom showing how it's put together. Then the finished side with it installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109072&d=1560889299

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109074&d=1560889313

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109075&d=1560889321

That’s it for a few days. Tomorrow prep for London including installing the new windshield in my Roadster. Assuming FedEx delivers on time. Yep, joined the broken windshield club while sitting in the garage last Monday/Tuesday. Hope to catch up with some of you in London. Looking forward to it as always.

Jim1855

06-18-2019, 03:49 PM

Paul,

Looks great, as usual. Body color will accent things.

See you in London.

Jim

Straversi

06-18-2019, 05:23 PM

Bravo!
-Steve

Desert Snake

06-18-2019, 07:20 PM

Spectacular and innovative. I didn't think there was a way to make that cover look good.

RodneyArcher

06-18-2019, 09:05 PM

Paul, amazingly cool like always! Am I correct in the fact that the drive-train is offset in the coupe as it is in the roadster?

edwardb

06-18-2019, 10:01 PM

Am I correct in the fact that the drive-train is offset in the coupe as it is in the roadster?

Yes, exactly the same.

GoDadGo

06-19-2019, 05:17 AM

Paul,

Regarding the offset of the engine to the passenger side, is the transmission tunnel area centered or is it offset too.
Also, how much room is in the tunnel compared to the MK-4?

Steve

edwardb

06-19-2019, 05:40 AM

Paul,

Regarding the offset of the engine to the passenger side, is the transmission tunnel area centered or is it offset too.
Also, how much room is in the tunnel compared to the MK-4?

Steve

Best I can tell the tunnel area is centered. The picture below from an early mock-up is what I have that shows it best. Even though not directly underneath. You can see the engine is to the right, the motor mounts are slightly different side-to-side, the bell and transmission have wider gaps on one side than the other, the transmission mount plate is offset, and the tailshaft at the chassis "X" is offset. All about the same amount. There is significantly more room in the transmission area than in a Roadster. That's a T-56 and fits easily. Would even drop out pretty easily without pulling the engine. Even though I have no plans to do it of course. A T-56 in a Roadster is very tight. Right against the tunnel on both sides and well over the rear chassis cross member.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80955&d=1518656889

shark92651

06-19-2019, 04:13 PM

Talk about making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Great job Paul. I think some matching body paint of even a hydro dip and it’s going to look great.

GoDadGo

06-19-2019, 08:08 PM

Thanks Paul!

I still don't think I'd be up to tackling one of these cars.
The MK-4 was so much easier.
Maybe one day.

Steve

q4stix

06-20-2019, 01:48 PM

I think you did a really great job with that idea! Having it scuffed, polished, or powder coated can all work well for those pieces.

edwardb

07-03-2019, 01:28 PM

It’s been a while since my last update. Have been getting in some good work sessions. So, some progress to report. Did take a 4+ day break to attend the annual London Cobra Show. This was, I think, our tenth year attending. Although the first couple of years were without a car and just looking and learning. Enjoyed the event like always. The new format with a single venue was a nice improvement. The weather didn’t look promising on Thursday. But weather on each following day was great. Friday took a nice cruise and of course the parade and downtown London event on Saturday. I was asked to have my Roadster in the Factory Five display again and enjoyed talking with lots of people and meeting several forum members in person. It was an honor to have Dave greet us personally when we drove in. (Shameless name dropping, sorry.) There was an “incident” on the charity rides as has been reported elsewhere, so won’t go into that. Fortunately, the police allowed things to continue. Just keeping the speeds down. I did three passes in the afternoon and I think my riders got their money’s worth. I’m not sure who had more fun though. For my street driving (and conservative approach) I don’t get to stretch the Roadster and Coyote out very often. I was amazed again what that thing will do when pushed hard. What a rush. The inside banquet on Saturday night was very nice. My wife said she missed the muddy grass floor and bugs biting her ankles from the previous outdoor under the big top venue. :p I didn’t. Another great contribution to CF and the winner of the raffle car wasn’t in the room or on the phone. That doesn’t ever seem to change. Sunday’s drive home was another nice day and an easy drive. With the Roadster in the SE of course. Already looking forward to next year and taking the Coupe as I’ve promised lots of folks. If you haven’t attended the London show before, you won’t be disappointed. Especially with the latest changes. Back to the build thread…

Continue to work through my punch list before paint. Mostly finished the wiper installation. The Specialty Power Windows setup I described previously is now all hooked up and working with the final tube bent and installed. It took several tries but settled on the 130-degree setting for the sweep. Gives good coverage combined with the 15-inch blades. It’s nice being able to set the sweep and tailor them exactly to the installation. One hint though. I had run them very briefly while wiring some weeks ago. Just to confirm they ran, parked, etc. Not a good idea without being in packed in grease like the instructions show. Didn’t do any permanent damage, but much more and I could have.

Also mostly finished up the washers. Probably something not too many mess around with, and I can kind of see why. But I’ve sweet talked my way through inspection three times without, even though they’re specifically mentioned on the inspection form. Plus, the wiper switch I’m using has the washer function built in. So decided to go for it. The Denso tank and pump I picked out and mounted works great. I had purchased the small Lucas style spray nozzles from **********. However, mounted on the cowl not far from the windshield they didn’t work all that great. Only put out a small stream that either hit right at the base of the windshield, or with the slightest adjustment all the way over the windshield and onto the back hatch glass. Impressive, but not exactly what I was going for. With a lot of looking, settled on these from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C4T2HHP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. For the low price, I wasn’t expecting much. But they had good reviews and actually work perfectly. My next thought was to go to some type of a wet blade setup. But I'm done messing with this.

Another item on my list is door cards. Still a work in progress, but made some patterns out of cardboard, settled on the basic design, and cut from 1/8-inch hardboard. The tape is where the hole is at in the inner door. I want to use that space somehow for a pocket, but still deciding what to do. I also want to add some kind of door pull but looking at options there too. The door cards will be vinyl wrapped, with some portion being the carbon fiber style covering I have in the seats and showed before on the instrument cluster and center switch panel. That plus red stitching like I’ll be using elsewhere. Little bit to go here obviously.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110007&d=1562170620

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110008&d=1562170627

Finally, have spent quite a bit of time working on my headers and side pipes. I’m still a couple weeks at least away from finally explaining further and showing details. But really making some progress and I’m excited about how this is going to turn out. Also excited because I’ll be able to run the engine again, which I haven’t been able to do since the body is on. Also do a couple drives up/down the street. I missed the go-kart stage because that was during the winter. The first start and initial engine runs were with Roadster side pipes that don’t fit now. Anyway, I know you guys like teasers, so here’s mine for today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110010&d=1562170895

Lou95gts

07-06-2019, 10:26 AM

edwardb

07-06-2019, 02:33 PM

Hi,
Thank you for the detailed build story. I'm nearing the finish of my Gen 3 build. You mentioned and pictured a few updated aluminium panels like the ones for the front wheel wells and the small pieces for rear upper wheel wells. Are there any more panel updates that are available and did FFR just ship them to you?
Thanks in advance,
Lou

You're welcome. I have fun with these build threads and appreciate the feedback. You're testing my memory here... What I remember is revised panels in the area of the front wheel wells and around the headers. They no longer have a fill over the header area. There were also new upper (attach inside the cowl) and lower (attach to the pontoons) splash guards for the front, and the filler pieces for the rear upper wheel wells. There were also new longer hatch hinge pieces. Pretty sure that's it. I didn't have to request. They assembled update kits for all sales to date some months ago when this was happening. Somewhere around 100, but don't quote me on that. I did call to expedite the shipment on mine since I was ready for the parts. But chalk that up to my impatience. Not Factory Five customer service. I don't know when the affected parts were incorporated into the kit. If in doubt, just call and find out.

Congrats on your Gen 3 Coupe build! More details and pics please. We love build threads. :o

Lou95gts

07-06-2019, 04:26 PM

Thank you for the info. Funny you mentioned the rear hatch hinges. I had to cut and lengthen mine to fit. I guess the new ones will fit without mods.
I've sent FFR an email asking for the parts.
Lou

edwardb

07-11-2019, 08:14 PM

This is probably my most trivial update to date. But finished the initial fabrication of the door cards and door bins, so will post to close that out. The doors on the Coupe are thick and have a good-sized opening. Since there’s no roll down windows (:() the area is free space. So decided to put it to use. Fabricated an aluminum bin for each door that’s 3-1/2 inches deep and basically the size of the opening. They’re held in place with 10-32 screws into nut plates bonded on the inside of the door. Nylon spacers hold them out to where they will be flush with the inside of the door cards. Then cut openings in my hardboard door cards that are nearly flush at the top and leave material along the bottom to hold stuff in. The shape of the openings are the same theme as the glovebox, so hopefully look like they belong. The inside of the bins will be lined with vinyl and carpet on the bottom. I also wanted to add door pulls. After looking at several options, realized I had the pulls right in front of me with the openings to the bins. But pulling on the door cards directly is probably not the best idea. So added strips of 1/2 x 3/16 steel that are also attached to the doors with spacers and nut plates and will be tight against the inside of the door cards and just below the bottom edge of the openings. Turned out nice and solid and I think will work great. The door cards will get 1/8-inch foam and then vinyl covered. The upper part will be plain vinyl, the lower part the C-F style vinyl in the seats and elsewhere, with red stitching on the line visible in the pictures. The door cards will be held in place with the door openers at the top (also going into nut plates) and strips of 3M Dual Lock reclosable fastener material. That’s what I have holding the door cards on #8674 and they've been rock solid.

Passenger side bin and door pull. Drivers side looks the same. The white material is white powder coated scraps left over from #8674 that I recycled for this project.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110548&d=1562891500

Passenger side done except for covering.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110549&d=1562891508

Same for the drivers side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=110550&d=1562891515

Another item I’ll mention. Many have told me that the Coupe doesn’t have great vision out the back through the hatch glass. I’ve had a couple recommendations for a full-time back-up camera. Not a bad idea, but didn’t go there. One idea I saw – and Factory Five offers them on their website – is the 14-inch Longacre Racing wide angle rear view mirror. Thought I would give one a try. Ordered from Summit since Factory Five was showing out of stock. Plus the Summit free shipping thing. Received yesterday and took it for a 0 mph test drive. One word IMO. Fail. First, they’re designed to be mounted on the roll bar versus the windshield. They come in 1-1/2 and 1-3/4 bracket sizes. The roll bar behind the windshield measures 1-5/8. Since Factory Five has the 1-3/4-inch version on their website, that’s the one I ordered. And, no surprise I guess, the brackets only go to slightly under 1-3/4 so don’t clamp tightly. Could modify the brackets, but before I did that, confirmed where the mirror would sit and what the view looked like. Not good in either case. Due to the design of the brackets and attachment to the mirror, plus the location of the roll bar, ends up very close to you. Almost in your face. Plus, the angle has to be really wonky to see out the back and I didn’t see where it added that much. Compared to the more OE style windshield mount mirror included with the kit, very little difference. Not because of the mirrors so much as there’s just so much space available to see out the back. So the Longacre mirror goes back and I’ll be going traditional on the center rear view mirror attaching to the windshield. Fortunately, the BRE side mirrors I have on each side give a good view. So I think I’ll be OK.

As far as the tease from my last update, continue to stay tuned. Should have more news on that in the very near future. That opens up a whole bunch of progress on other fronts.

wareaglescott

07-12-2019, 06:04 AM

Great innovation on the door cards Paul!

What do you need a rear view mirror for? Everyone will be we'll behind you and unable to keep up anyways! haha

David Williamson

07-12-2019, 06:48 AM

I have the Longacre mirror from FFR and from the short test runs I did last Fall i found it worked well. Maybe my seat possition is different with the Kirkey seats?
David W

edwardb

07-12-2019, 08:36 AM

I have the Longacre mirror from FFR and from the short test runs I did last Fall i found it worked well. Maybe my seat possition is different with the Kirkey seats?
David W

Thanks for the comment. Appreciated. Good to hear you made yours work and are happy with it. I checked one more time just to be sure, including looking at max forward angles the brackets could be positioned. Bottom line is I can't get the mirror much further forward than the roll bar frame behind the windshield, and for me anyway that's just too close. But even with it there, as I mentioned in my post, when I hold the kit provided regular mirror at the windshield, the field of vision isn't that different so doesn't feel like a good trade-off. I already feel a little closed in and that everything is kind of close while sitting in the Coupe, even though dimensionally there's just as much or more space as the Roadster. Probably too much seat time with the open top. My seats may be slightly forward of their max rear location, but I don't think that's a big difference. Like so many things, maybe a matter of expectations and personal taste.

jdavis500

07-12-2019, 01:25 PM

edwardb

07-12-2019, 02:44 PM

Looking forward to learning more about your side pipes? It must be hard to stay quiet about them. I am working on the nose locator studs and I have a couple of questions. Since I am shamelessly copying many of your details, did you end up placing bolts thru the fiberglass to mount the stud locators in the pontoons or did you feel that HSRF was adequate? Also, I see a rubber washer in one shot. Is this for proper spacing?

Hopefully next week... For the pins, I have the studs in a steel plate that's roughed up and installed with lots of HSRF. Plenty of contact area to the glass and it's not going anywhere. Yes, I made some spacers out of neoprene to hold the gap even. One thing I've noticed FWIW. Now that I have the cowl positioned and it's been there for awhile, it now drops right into place without a lot of coercing. Wasn't the case at first while trying to get everything lined up. I had to push it to get it back onto the pins. Clearly the fiberglass takes a set and fits itself to the opening.

jdavis500

07-12-2019, 02:54 PM

Nice. It seems to take a lot of massaging, but body and hood are slowly finding there way. Mine looks good, but I hope no one looks at it with a straight edge and tape measure. The car doesn't look too bad either.

edwardb

07-25-2019, 02:11 PM

Another somewhat trivial update. Expecting some more significant ones very soon. There’s a common theme to this update. Couple of the ideas are from other build threads. That’s the beauty of this community. Lots of shared creativity which I watch closely and pick and choose (and sometimes change a little…) for my builds.

First up, headlight covers. The kit comes with acrylic headlight covers (very last POL item for me) that need to be trimmed slightly to fit the openings. I’m going to wait for that until after paint just to make sure they fit exactly. They are attached with kit provided right angle SS pieces. Another builder posted a suggestion to use 10-32 SS rod end bolts from McMaster instead. Decided to go that way. These: https://www.mcmaster.com/2434k54. Require a couple of minor modifications. The 3/16-inch holes are unthreaded. I threaded them to 12-24, which is a somewhat unusual size. But 12-24 taps into them with any additional drilling, so that’s what I used along with 12-24 button head SS screws. Also used a 10-32 die to extend the threads all the way to the top. The shank will get cut off and probably need a spacer under the rod end. But have them ready for the next step when it’s time to install the covers. Makes for a nice clean look. Note that Peter Brock sells a somewhat similar setup on his website (bre2.net) so that’s another option. About the same cost.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111204&d=1564074298

Next up, worked on the quarter windows. First was fitting the formed acrylic scoops. They're provided significantly oversized. Fit both sides to the outline on the body. Like the headlight covers, I’ll wait until paint is completed to confirm the exact fit, then drill and mount. BTW, fit each side individually. They’re slightly different.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111205&d=1564074305

When the side windows are installed and running heat or A/C, in most cases you would not want this scoop to be drawing in outside air. So, the windows kit comes with an acrylic panel that’s intended to be placed into the opening for times like that. Couple of issues there. It’s intended to be held in with screws, which isn’t very handy since it’s likely to be taken in and out frequently. Plus the seatbacks are somewhat in the way for accessing the screws. Also, there’s a 1+ inch gap between the back of the window and the edge of the panel if placed on the inside of the body. I had made a note of how Erik Treves (the famous Hawk Coupe) addressed this on his build, so went back and reviewed that. He even posted a very informative video: https://youtu.be/Vj6pKvciQZI. These seal plus slide in and out without any mounting screws. Looks great to me, so unceremoniously stole this idea for my build.

First up though, found the kit provided acrylic panels were a little small to be set up this way. Plus it appears they were cut using a laser cutter, and the edges were burned in several places causing the liner material to be melted into the panels. Only around the edges and still could have been used. But picked up a couple 12 x 12 x 1/8 coated acrylic panels and cut new ones after making carboard patterns. Bent some aluminum angles for the corners, made a couple of pieces for the windows to slide into out of 16-gauge steel, and added some cushion and bulb seal. Sounds easy enough but does take some trial and error to get it all just right. I’m going to get the metal pieces powder coated and will hold the angles on the acrylic the same way the side windows are assembled with 10-32 SS button head screws. Very happy with how this turned out, and thanks to Erik for the inspiration.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111210&d=1564074346

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111208&d=1564074330

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111209&d=1564074338

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111206&d=1564074312

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111207&d=1564074320

Finally, this is the first time I’ve worked with acrylic. I found numerous references that care must be taken when drilling holes as it’s possible to chip and/or crack the material, especially when drilling close to an edge. Learned that there are drill bits made just for this material, so Amazon to the rescue. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D1B3B51/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o00_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Never a bad excuse for new tools. Only drilled the eight holes in these windows so far and seemed to work very well. Plus did a bunch of test drilling in scraps. Will use again for real for the scoops and the headlight covers. As the directions state, the right drill bit plus the right speed are important. If you don’t want to buy these, it is possible to drill with regular bits. But work up very slowly on the size with multiple bits, plus keep the speed down so they’re cutting and not melting.

After a week or so of very hot weather, which kept me out of the shop starting around noon every day, it’s cooled back off to our usual very nice Michigan summer weather. Have been able to get in lots of driving in the Roadster, in addition to the build.

Erik W. Treves

07-25-2019, 09:04 PM

Those look great! Very well executed Sir

edwardb

07-30-2019, 08:32 PM

Today was a big day. With my prototype headers and sidepipes installed (more later), drove the Coupe for the first time in my neighborhood. Started the Coyote after not running for quite a few months and it fired right up. Had a bit of a scare. Wasn’t getting any alternator voltage on the gauge. The alternator had to be out to get the headers on and off. So yesterday while reinstalling it, I forget the master switch was on and managed to touch the alternator power lead to ground. Sparked good as expected but didn’t see any damage so kept going. With the switch off of course. Now today no alternator output. Was afraid I fried something in the alternator (ugh) but then I remembered the alternator mega fuse I normally install. Sure enough it was burned and open. Did its job! Put in a new fuse and all good. With yet another lesson learned.

First impressions driving are all good. The Tilton HRB and clutch feel great. Smooth easy release. Really nice. The Wilwood brakes even though not bedded yet seemed strong. Power steering felt fine. T-56 shifts great and reverse lockout works with the car in motion. Initially didn’t have a speedo indication, but I just had the GPS antenna temporarily draped under the dash. Put it up on top and that’s working too. Need to find a permanent location. Radiator fan kicked on when it should have (around 190 F) and shut back off when it dropped back down. Interesting that Ford Performance went back to a more normal temperature curve on the cooling fan program with the Gen 3. I did throw a couple codes related to oil pressure. The pressure is fine (I kept a close eye on the gauge) but apparently the one sensor I removed (at Ford Performance agreement) is still active. Will dig into that. Tried the heater and it poured out hot air. Don’t have the A-C charged yet, so no test there. Checked everything over back in the shop, and no leaks or drips. The Gen 3 Coyote runs good, but still could improve some I think. Not sure if it’s still learning. Or likely will need a custom tune at some point. Kind of expect that. In general things are a little loud without any carpet or weather-stripping on the doors and hatch and windshield just taped in place. And since the splash guards aren’t coated yet, lots of pinging from dirt and gravel on the road. But it’s very driveable now. Only did 25-30 MPH in my neighborhood and found 3rd once. Bottom line, all good.

But the real news here is the headers and sidepipes. Now that I have a working setup, will finally give more details. Most know the stock Factory Five sidepipes are loud, a little on the rough side (at least mine were), unfinished, and the transition is maybe less than ideal. I considered a couple of options, but really wanted to stay with the dual pipe traditional look of the Daytona Coupe. Due to the uncertainty, I purposely didn’t order headers with my kit and figured I would address the header/sidepipe situation later. So fast forward some months into my build, and I was pleasantly surprised that Georgie from Gas-N contacted me and asked if I would work with him to develop a header/sidepipe setup for the Gen 3 Coupe. Would I? You bet. I’ve used Gas-N side pipes on each of my Roadster builds and they’re perfect. Look great, sound great, and last. The prospect of that same quality on my Coupe build was something I didn’t have to think about very long.

There have been a number of steps to the process, and I won’t go through all of them. Georgie developed a twin pipe design and I received the prototypes several weeks ago. Note these are stainless, just like the Roadster pipes. But for this stage, not polished. Then we used “Frankenstein headers” to determine the proper configuration of the headers with the side pipes in their intended location. Once locked down, those were sent back to Georgie to use as patterns for the prototype headers. Couple of weeks later, these arrived.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111550&d=1564525864

Now installed. And by the way, for those who have busted knuckles and said words Mom said not to use while putting in Roadster headers, the Gen 3 Coupe isn't too bad. The driver side is still tight, but all are reachable. The passenger side is mostly a piece of cake. All but a couple can be reached with a ratchet, extension, and universal joint. I used RemFlex gaskets and high-temp RTV silicone (Permatex 81878) on the bolts. This combination has been rock solid in #8674.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111555&d=1564525915

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111556&d=1564525926

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111553&d=1564525900

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111552&d=1564525892

Note these are the first prototypes. Now that they been checked out, Georgie will make a new pair with his legendary stainless steel polished finish. No huge rush because these are fully functional. Did my first drives today with them. Note I don’t have the side hangars on yet, so there’s a little movement of the pipes that will be reduced when those are added. Check out the videos. They're short. But really happened and you get the idea.

https://youtu.be/24kZChAlKeI

https://youtu.be/boH-3-BD52g

https://youtu.be/QCdUdj6n3eM

https://youtu.be/mFHHqadaREs

If interested, you can check with Georgie on price and availability of this new option for the Gen 3 Coupe with a Coyote. Next up, visit the paint shop for my estimate (oh boy…) and scheduling. This will also be the first time I try to fit it into my 14-foot SE. We’ll see how that goes.

jdavis500

07-30-2019, 08:59 PM

Love those sidepipes. I think this header/sidepipe combo is the way to go. I jumped the gun on headers from elsewhere, but I already talked to Georgie and I think he can make it happen for me.

GoDadGo

07-30-2019, 09:24 PM

What A Way To Spend Retirement!
You Really Missed Your Calling!
Great Job As Always!

David Williamson

07-31-2019, 07:41 AM

Well done, you kept the look and got a reasonable sound level. I have Boig single pipes on mine, similar sound level but different look.
Wish I was following you in my build not ahead like I am, so many great ideas.
David W

edwardb

07-31-2019, 09:50 PM

Brief update after the crazy last couple of days. Today I tried the Coupe in my 14 foot Serpent Express (SE) trailer to see if it will fit. Short answer. Not really. Probably not a surprise but not exactly for the reason I expected. After driving it in and stopping short of the cover frame in the front, found a pretty major issue. The door wouldn’t open. Doesn’t clear the side escape hatch. Kind of hard to get out and back in that way. So drove it all the way against the front. Like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111650&d=1564626686

Now the door clears. Just barely:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111649&d=1564626679

Sticks out the back as I expected. This I had figured out previously with a tape measure. Found the covering is flexible enough that it will still zip closed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111648&d=1564626670

Conclusion: Ok to use the trailer for transport before it’s painted. After it’s painted? No way. Can’t have the paint touching anything, specifically in the front. But stopping short, can’t get in/out of the door. Winch is an option, but still the interior (e-brake, shifter) will be inaccessible unless the DS window is off. Even then it’s still sticking out the back. I had resigned myself that at best I would have to tie the door up above the hatch spoiler area and tow it with it hanging out. Still affords reasonable protection. But not so much security. Bottom line: Ok temporarily, but not for the long term. Looking at options.

On a happier note, while I had it out and running, took my wife for a short spin around the block. Still rough and noisy, but she really liked it. Likes the seats, the added footbox space, the 4-point seat belts with pushbutton latches, the roof over her head without wind (think hair...), and the prospect of heat for those cold drives. A/C is a bonus. I think we have a winner. Officially have two miles on the odometer.

Automan

08-01-2019, 04:32 AM

Congratulations!!!! She looks beautiful

I can hardly wait to start mine up. Currently waiting on Specialty Power wiper motor kit WWk-2. Getting there lololol.

Nelson

David Williamson

08-01-2019, 07:37 AM

I had mine a normal enclosed car trailer and even with the Coupe over to the right as far as I could get it, entry exit was not easy. I am 5 -10 and 175 lbs so fairly slim and I just fit. The trailer did not have a left side door, might have made it easier.
David W

Lougarvin

08-02-2019, 01:52 PM

edwardb

08-02-2019, 04:18 PM

Hello Paul,

IÂ’m a rookie coupe builder following your every move. Putting together the front suspension I used the Howe ball joints in the UCA and now trying to install the Energy Suspension dust covers. Not sure which one to use. The big one or the small one?

Thanks,

Lou

The smaller (shorter) ones. There's really nothing to the installation. Just slide them over the tapered shaft and up against the mounted ball joint before installing into the spindle. Good luck with your build!

Lougarvin

08-03-2019, 08:40 AM

Thanks Paul. If I have a choice and it’s fifty fifty I always choose the wrong one. More exercise taking it apart but getting it right is what I want.

Have good weekend.

Lou

edwardb

08-07-2019, 03:57 PM

Last week was a big one. Had a complete exhaust system, first drives including wife ride, trailer trial fit, then a visit to the paint shop on Friday. I’m supposed to have my paint quote and planned date sometime this week. They promised to support my plan to have it done in time for me to complete and display at the Detroit Autorama in February 2020. They loved the car. Hadn’t seen a Coupe before, let alone the newest version. A couple of things to address on the body, but in general they thought it wasn’t bad. We’ll see when I find out how many hours they estimate. After some discussion, they are going to paint it body ON. For sure the doors will come off after body work. Not sure about the hood (cowl). That one is easy either way.

So, with all those steps completed, yesterday I started tearing it down. Next steps will be to get the balance of unfinished metal parts to the powder coater, get the interior parts to the interior shop for vinyl wrap, and undercoat the main body and cowl. I would do the vinyl wrap myself (have done it several times before) but since I’m adding red stitching to match the seats, need some help on that one. For the undercoat, leaning towards using U-POL Raptor. I’m planning to put a heavy coat of Lizard Skin ceramic insulation on the underside of the main body roof before the undercoat. Hoping it keeps the interior temperature down a bit. I’m not planning on using the kit supplied headliner. I’m hoping I can get the Raptor down smooth and clean enough to be the final finish. With the roll cage, the underside of the roof isn’t prominent. So, with a decent finish, hope to just stop there.

Have everything needed off and bagged and tagged. Today a buddy came over and helped me lift the main body and cowl off the frame. Just slightly different than the final pictures posted last week. But progress is being made here. Next time together hope it stays that way. We're taking our annual trip to the west coast soon, so will have two weeks out of the build schedule.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112017&d=1565210281

Papa

08-07-2019, 04:59 PM

The car already looks amazing, Paul. I can't wait until the paint is done. By the way, my BMW has black leather with red stitching and it is a very good look in my opinion.

Dave

David Williamson

08-07-2019, 06:12 PM

mine was painted body on with the doors and hood off. The painter figured it was easier to get it taped off and better access for paint that way.
David W

edwardb

08-08-2019, 05:46 AM

The car already looks amazing, Paul. I can't wait until the paint is done. By the way, my BMW has black leather with red stitching and it is a very good look in my opinion.

Dave

mine was painted body on with the doors and hood off. The painter figured it was easier to get it taped off and better access for paint that way.
David W

Good feedback. Thanks guys. Regarding paint, that sounds like a similar discussion to the one we had Friday. Yours turned out great BTW. Congrats.

GoDadGo

08-08-2019, 08:43 AM

Paul,

I'm sure that this will be yet.Another Autorama Winner.because like a fine wine your abilities just keep getting better and better with age. I'm not saying you are getting old, but I will state for the record that you are most certainly getting even wiser. If I had half your ability my car would be done and done well.

Also, you are going to love the U-Pol product because the texture is determined by your air pressure and distance to the target. If you want to roll it on, then you can do that too; however, their provided sprayer works pretty well as long as you have a good clean air supply.

Steve

NOTE:...While I don't have time to finish my car, I am having fun watching you finish your latest masterpiece.

RHelweg

08-09-2019, 01:00 PM

shark92651

08-13-2019, 08:09 AM

edwardb

08-13-2019, 09:08 AM

Looking great, Paul. I like your idea for the roof. Are you using the same painter you used on your 20th Roadster and body on? Did you make a decision on color or are you going to keep us in suspense until you unveil some paint pics? ;)

Thanks. Plan to do the roof insulation and Raptor spray in a few weeks when we're back from vacation. Outside before it gets cold. (Hard to believe thinking about that again already...). I had a decision on color and no surprise similar to the last Roadsters. My plan was to have the same shop paint the Coupe as the last two Roadsters. That's hit a major stumbling block however as new management seems to equal we don't want your business unless the price is over three times before. (Not kidding) Just starting to considering options, but needless to say this is a major disappointment and has me a bit derailed at the moment. On a happier note, sold the too small SE trailer to a local club member and have a new longer version on order. At least that challenge is resolved.

shark92651

08-15-2019, 08:03 AM

David Williamson

08-15-2019, 08:42 AM

I can see the cost of the Coupe body/paint work being double easily. You have done most of the fibre glass work already so that should help.
In my case the Coupe paint was many times what I paid to the paint my Mkll done 15 years ago, (different shop) shop rates are now double and it is painted to a much higher standard. Oh and after they did my mkll the shop doubled their price.
David W

edwardb

08-15-2019, 08:59 AM

Wow, tripling the price due to new management is ridiculous. Congrats on the new trailer though, perhaps you can put it to good use soon taking the car to a new painter that actually appreciates a loyal customer!

I can see the cost of the Coupe body/paint work being double easily. You have done most of the fibre glass work already so that should help.
In my case the Coupe paint was many times what I paid to the paint my Mkll done 15 years ago, (different shop) shop rates are now double and it is painted to a much higher standard. Oh and after they did my mkll the shop doubled their price.
David W

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Still talking but not sure it's going to work out. We'll see. The shop has had some bad experiences with Roadsters (that's all they've painted) and grossly underbid them. I know about several of the situations. But that hasn't been the case for the two they've done for me. I just seem to be getting the brunt of that. I full expected the Coupe to be pricey, and I want a first class paint job. But going from 150 hours estimated (my Roadsters) to now 350+ (with all the glass fitted and mounted in both cases) is off the charts. They're now saying they would only charge for the actual time, and it really is only an 'estimate.' But my trust is shaky at best.

freds

08-15-2019, 01:34 PM

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Still talking but not sure it's going to work out. We'll see. The shop has had some bad experiences with Roadsters (that's all they've painted) and grossly underbid them. I know about several of the situations. But that hasn't been the case for the two they've done for me. I just seem to be getting the brunt of that. I full expected the Coupe to be pricey, and I want a first class paint job. But going from 150 hours estimated (my Roadsters) to now 350+ (with all the glass fitted and mounted in both cases) is off the charts. They're now saying they would only charge for the actual time, and it really is only an 'estimate.' But my trust is shaky at best.

Curious about how many dollars are being quoted.
fred

David Williamson

08-15-2019, 02:22 PM

Based on the hours in my Coupe 350 hours does not sound out of line. I have lots more body shop time in mine than that but you did more of the fibre glass work than I did.
expensive it was but like they say "only money" and it does look great and yours will too when it is done.
David W

edwardb

08-15-2019, 03:55 PM

Curious about how many dollars are being quoted.
fred

I don't really want to say any more than I already have. I'm still hoping for a mutual understanding and don't want to get too deep discussing it on social media. I've already stated the hours they quoted. Multiply that by your local shop rate (they vary) and add material costs. Pretty big variation in price there depending on brand, color, etc. That will get in you the ballpark. Even in the best case, not for the faint of heart.

Based on the hours in my Coupe 350 hours does not sound out of line. I have lots more body shop time in mine than that but you did more of the fibre glass work than I did.
David W

Going to have to respectfully disagree there. I don't know specifics about yours so no opinion there. But mine is ready to start surface prep and prime. Zero glass work or fitting to do. Similar to the Roadsters I've had done three times. And I know exactly how many hours were spent on those. Yes there are differences, but once everything is fitted, hung, gapped (where most of the extra time required for the Coupe is spent) they should be more similar than different.

mickent

08-15-2019, 10:03 PM

But for the love of building your own, the smart money would buy a new Vet.

edwardb

08-15-2019, 10:30 PM

But for the love of building your own, the smart money would buy a new Vet.

I'm not sure what motivates anyone to make a post like this in a build thread where the decision has obviously already been made. But here's my rebuttal: (1) You're right, building your own is a huge deal. It's not just about the money. If that's not you, then you're right. But it is for me. The enjoyment of the planning, the build itself, and the satisfaction that once it's done are nothing like walking into a showroom and plunking down the cash. (2) "Smart money" is a matter of opinion. I fully expect this car will be worth what I have in it when done. Maybe more. There's no accounting for my labor hours. But I'm OK with that. It's a hobby that I enjoy. I don't do it expecting to be paid. At the very least, it will not depreciate nearly as fast as most production cars, including Vettes. (3) I go to a lot of car shows and cruise-ins. Vettes are a dime a dozen. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure when the C8's show up (which I like alot BTW) they'll get lots of attention. Just like the C7 did when it was first released. But for now, people walk right by lines of Vettes and go directly to my Roadster. I'm expecting that will be even more the case with the Daytona.

So no, I don't agree.

delta0014

08-15-2019, 11:03 PM

P100DHG

08-20-2019, 02:47 PM

But for the love of building your own, the smart money would buy a new Vet.

Paul I'm afraid he's right. This Coupe was a giant mistake. You should have built the FFR GTM instead and junked a Corvette to build your own super car. :) LOL.

If it wasn’t for Paul and his absolutely amazing explanations, patience and skill, there would be a real absence in the community. So if Paul bought a Corvette instead of building, documenting and guiding us I can say I’d personally be stuck on several points in my build and if not stuck than certainly confused.

Thanks Paul and sorry about you paint prices I am sure it will get sorted out.

Automan

08-20-2019, 09:39 PM

TMartinLVNV

08-21-2019, 12:08 AM

Jeff, that is a great wife you have there.

Terry

edwardb

08-21-2019, 05:08 AM

Hi, I was wondering if you had a picture of your under carriage, the way it currently sits. I would love to see where your seat bolts are coming out of.

Im using FFR aluminum low back seats with Speedway universal seat rails. Also used the Kirkland seat brackets for the seats. On the passenger side both my front bolts ended up coming out by bracing where putting a nut on will take some grinding lol. really tried to get the seat in the seat pan. I did the template like you did but was off alittle. longer bolts will fix the issue.

thanks
Nelson

The Corbeau seats and base I used gave me quite a bit of flexibility of where to place the seat mounting bolts. So not sure how much this will apply to your situation. But here's a pic of the driver's side. Easier to see from the top versus the underside. Three of the bolts are in the seat pan. The fourth (top right in this case) is through a frame rail so takes a longer bolt. You can kind of see the outline of my seat base where it pushed into the Lizard Skin a little. As I think I showed earlier, I put aligning nuts (these https://www.mcmaster.com/90955a123) on the seat frame so once aligned, the bolts go in from the bottom with nothing to reach or hold from the inside. Which would be very difficult. The seats are out now, and hopefully will go in one last time once the carpet is in. Hope this helps.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112745&d=1566381701

edwardb

08-21-2019, 02:45 PM

Last update before leaving on vacation for two weeks. Prepared a 3-page punch list of everything needed to finish this thing. Quite a bit there, but a good sign it’s down to a list I can manage. The remaining powder coat parts are at the plater. The interior parts at the interior shop. Met with them yesterday to work out the details. Both places promised they’d be done when we get back. Ordered the new 16-foot SE trailer as mentioned before, and Larry Johnson is quoting 8-10 weeks. Pick-up will be in Three Rivers, Michigan like my last one. The owner of my old SE is leaving it here at my place until the new one is ready. So I’m not without a trailer if needed.

For the actual build, knocked out some last-minute details on the front cowl. Did the final trim on the back edge. Turns out the side vents (by the latches) were cut out but undersized. Used the provided template and the pressed screen to get them properly sized and put a radius on the edges. Both the vent and latch openings had gaps between the inner and outer fiberglass shells. Somewhat like the hood scoop cutout on the Roadster. So got those filled with HSRF and should be good to go. Little more clean-up on the underside and then the bedliner spray when we get back, and it will be done except for paint of course.

Had a bit of a scare that’s maybe worth mentioning. I ran the Coyote checking out a few things. Still chasing a few codes Ford Performance is working on. Later came back to the garage to find a puddle of antifreeze on the ground in the vicinity of the RH (passenger) rear corner of the engine. Good grief. Heater hoses and heater control valve back there but confirmed nothing was leaking. Further review with a trouble light and could see antifreeze on the back corner of the head and running down onto the starter motor and then to the floor. I panicked thinking maybe head gasket, but at least in my experience that’s not how they leak. But still had visions in my head of a big problem. After things cooled off, dug deeper and found the source of the problem. It was the heater hose connection at the front of the engine. Was leaking from there and running down between the top of the head and the intake, and eventually off the back of the engine. The connectors I used were what come with the Coyote installation kit. But I knew from the Roadster build they are Gates 28504 connectors. So ordered a couple and replaced the one that was leaking. Immediately could tell it fit better, locked on tighter, and didn’t wobble like the other one. In comparing the parts, the ones with the kit are marked made in China with an unidentified logo. The Gates ones have the Gates logo and the package says made in the U.S.A. Cheap knock-off parts included in the kit? Would seem so. Decided to switch the other side too as a preemptive move. A little disappointing, I guess. But relieved not to have a serious problem.

Another small detail to sort out was the Speedhut GPS antenna location. After studying multiple locations, ended up making a bracket out of 16-gauge steel (aluminum wouldn’t be the best choice for the magnetic antenna…) and attaching it to the LH firewall extension. This places the antenna in a similar location as the windshield mounting bracket location often used on the Roadster except on the other side. It's just below the fiberglass body and in front of the windshield and any other obstacles. Which for me has always worked well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112688&d=1566338281

An update about my paint situation. Today I went to the shop and met with the owner and general manager. We were able to reach an agreement (yea!) and I will deliver the Coupe for paint on Oct 1. Completion promised in 10 weeks or less. I’m not going to discuss the specifics, but summary is somewhat more than I expected but less than first quoted. I know they will do an awesome job, as they did on the last two they painted for me. So very happy and relieved to have this behind me for now.

Finally, on a side note, last weekend was the big Woodward Dream Cruise here in SE Michigan. Organizers claim 1.5 million people and 40,000 classic cars. Officially, it’s the third Saturday in August. But in reality, people and cars pack Woodward Ave. for a couple of weeks. Our Great Lakes Cobra Club had an event during the week, and then an all-day event the day of the cruise. 60+ cars and 100+ members, so a great turnout. Between admission, silent auction, and rides made a sizeable contribution to charity. I gave two rides myself. Not the London Cobra Show quick shots, but a nice cruise on Woodward taking in the sights and event. Weather cooperated for a great day. #8674 just about to turn 6,000 miles on the way home. Good times.

Automan

08-21-2019, 06:49 PM

Yes it does!!! thankyou.

I managed to get the passenger seat in with the rails functioning with my self sitting it. (230lbs lolol). The position of the seat belt mounts, its hard to get the seat all the way back. I did as far as it could go. Leaves me with aLittle storage space behind the seat. My god its a chore to get in and out of the car up on jack stands lolol. Hope its a little easier on the ground with doors to hold me lol.

Here are some pics of the seat. And a pic of my 1965 289 in the engine bay almost ready to turn over. Also my Dash.

112773112774112775112776

Nelson

edwardb

08-21-2019, 07:05 PM

Automan

08-29-2019, 08:29 AM

edwardb

08-29-2019, 01:48 PM

Hi Mr Edwards, how do you plan on installing your rear backup light.

Where will you mount it?

Im considering buying the same light fixture as you got. Just dont know exactly where to put it.

thanks
Nelson

I did show my initial idea of using a single Maxxima M42206 14 LED for a backup light here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-More-Minor-Stuff&p=311486&viewfull=1#post311486. But decided I didn't like the look of the light or cutting that big hole in the rear panel. Briefly considered hanging it under the rear panel, but nixed that idea too. I ended up using these lights: https://watsons-streetworks.com/product/6-led-interior-and-marker-lights/. Described in this post: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-More-Minor-Stuff&p=369063&viewfull=1#post369063. And shown in this video: https://youtu.be/AAzI1ulTMV8. I'm happy with how it turned out. But a lot of personal taste involved. Hope this helps.

Automan

08-29-2019, 02:26 PM

I did show my initial idea of using a single Maxxima M42206 14 LED for a backup light here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-More-Minor-Stuff&p=311486&viewfull=1#post311486. But decided I did like the look of the light or cutting that big hole in the rear panel. Briefly considered hanging it under the rear panel, but nixed that idea too. I ended up using these lights: https://watsons-streetworks.com/product/6-led-interior-and-marker-lights/. Described in this post: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-More-Minor-Stuff&p=369063&viewfull=1#post369063. And shown in this video: https://youtu.be/AAzI1ulTMV8. I'm happy with how it turned out. But a lot of personal taste involved. Hope this helps.

I just re read those posts. That is exactly what lights i was hoping for but couldnt find them. Checked everywhere (well obviously not everywhere lol) even finish line.

I watch the video and its perfect. Ordering those rear backup lights now.

Thankyou!!!!!!!

Automan

08-29-2019, 02:45 PM

I just re read those posts. That is exactly what lights i was hoping for but couldnt find them. Checked everywhere (well obviously not everywhere lol) even finish line.

I watch the video and its perfect. Ordering those rear backup lights now.

Thankyou!!!!!!!

So, i just ordered the lights lol, thanks again. 2 for either side. So i am using a TKO 500. Do you have a simple wiring diagram for installation of backup lights?

Nelson

edwardb

08-29-2019, 06:58 PM

So, i just ordered the lights lol, thanks again. 2 for either side. So i am using a TKO 500. Do you have a simple wiring diagram for installation of backup lights?

Nelson

I powered the backup lights (and reverse lockout module in my case with the T-56) with the 10 amp radio circuit in the RF harness. No radio in my build, so it was an available circuit. On your TKO, the backup light switch is the front one on the LH side. Two threaded looking prongs sticking out of a screw-in switch. That switch is normally open, and closed when the transmission is in reverse. I ran a wire from the radio wire to one side of the switch (doesn't matter) and then from the other side to the positive wires of the backup lights in the back. Then ground the backup lights. I added the required wires to the rear harness before installing. Will work whenever the key is on (the radio circuit is an Acc Feed) and the transmission is in reverse. In the past, some have used a relay. But the LED lights pull so little current, it's not necessary. You'll need a pigtail that fits that switch on the transmission. Different than the one I used on my T-56.

Lougarvin

09-02-2019, 12:53 PM

1932

09-03-2019, 12:00 AM

What master cylinder did you use, i have 3/4 and it needs just a little more. But with knee pain do not want any more than needed.

edwardb

09-03-2019, 12:31 AM

Hola Paul,

Slowly but surely following your build on my Coupe. Just ordered the Pro-M fuel pickup and Breeze tank vent. The Ford tank seal now has different numbers. One is for ‘98 Mustangs and the other is for ‘99 thru 2004. Which one please?

Thanks Lou.

I have no experience with other part numbers or tanks from those years. I've only ever used the F4ZZ-9072-DA filler neck seal. It's for 87 - 93 Fox body Mustangs, which matches the most common fuel tanks used including in all of my builds. Available from numerous sources, including Amazon. Also here: https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/seal-fuel-filler-neck-to-tank/.

What master cylinder did you use, i have 3/4 and it needs just a little more. But with knee pain do not want any more than needed.

The two builds I've done with the Wilwood pedal box (Roadster #8674 and the Gen 3 Coupe) used .75 MC's for the front, and .625 MC's for the rear. I have no personal experience with other sizes, so can't make any recommendations. You may want to consider power brakes.

1932

09-03-2019, 11:59 AM

edwardb

09-03-2019, 04:39 PM

I was asking about master for the tilton throw out bearing, i am using the same as you ( very happy with it ) but need some more travel. Have body off so i will change it out to 1 or 1 1/8. Which one are you using?

Oops. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm using a Wilwood 260-10373 13/16-inch master cylinder with my Tilton 60-6104 Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB). That was the size recommended by Tilton using their instructions along with the Ford Performance M-7560-T46 (Centerforce dual friction) clutch. Based on testing to date and two miles of preliminary driving, everything is perfect. Easy and smooth pedal pressure, release point right where I want it, exact amount of throw, etc. Extremely happy with the setup so far. A larger MC would give more travel, but Tilton is very specific about the maximum throw of the HRB. So be very cautious there. Mine isn't moving the maximum amount, but it's somewhat close. Also, increasing the MC size will increase the effort required.

https://tiltonracing.com/wp-content/uploads/98-1110-6000-Series-HRB-V2.pdf

edwardb

09-13-2019, 06:41 AM

We’ve been back from vacation just over a week now. Took a bit to get things settled back down on the home front including harvesting my lawn. Cooler weather and rain while we were gone made it go a bit crazy. Couple words about our vacation. Two weeks divided between our son and family in Nampa, Idaho and a whole bunch of my family in southern Oregon. It was kind of a family reunion to celebrate my Dad’s upcoming 90th, and we used the occasion to have a family workday to paint the entire outside of their place and put a new roof on their shed. We were done by 3:00. Amazing what a lot of hands can accomplish. Looks great and they were so appreciative since this isn’t something they can do any more. Had a chance to visit one of my favorite places on the planet with my brother and his wife. If you haven’t been to Crater Lake, Oregon, it’s worth checking out. Measured at 1,949 feet deep which is incredible. Couple of iPhone pics below, which don't remotely give it justice. Stopped at Beckie’s Cafe on the way back for some huckleberry pie. Locals will know just what I’m talking about. Unfortunately, a little too much drama on the last day before we flew home. My wife tripped on a parking lot bumper while stopped during our drive back to Idaho. Broke her wrist and generally a little banged up. Pretty scary how quickly something like that can happen. Two ER visits and she’s on the mend. But guess who’s helping a little more than usual (no comments) with cooking, dishes, driving, etc.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114243&d=1568372090

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114242&d=1568372083

Meanwhile, back to the build. Working down my list of things to complete before delivering for paint on October 1. The interior shop finished up my interior pieces while we were gone. I had them do the stitching and place the pieces on the panels. Minimal wrapping and none of the cut-outs. I wanted to do the finishing myself to save a little $$ plus take a little more time on the details. After some hours, the main pieces were ready to install. Also made and finished the glovebox door and got that all fitted. As of last night, have everything mostly back together. The dash will come apart if necessary, but really hope not to. Not a friendly place to work. All the fasteners for the dash are mostly hidden. Same for the upper transmission cover. The lower transmission cover (over the shifter and e-brake) is removeable and decided to put three screws through each edge. Mostly covered by the seats. Will be using some black chrome 10-32 screws from our local Ace. Stupid expensive, but look nice and blend reasonably well. Still have some work to do on the door cards but will save that for later. Took these quick pictures last night. The garage lighting doesn’t play nice on the vinyl covering. But the color match between the regular black vinyl and the carbon fiber style vinyl (matching the Corbeau seats) looks decent. Carpet will go on after paint. I’m very happy with how this is turning out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114239&d=1568372034

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114240&d=1568372041

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114238&d=1568372026

The glovebox door uses the same Richelieu 173167 hinges from Lowes (also the same ones used by Alex on his dash kit) and the VW 111857131L pull/lock as #8674. The button inside is for the Digital Guard Dawg keyless ignition system. Used for system access, emergency unlock, etc. Not required for normal operation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114241&d=1568372050

Club event today, and we’re visiting the Factory Five build school tomorrow. Next steps on the build are to get the body undercoated (U-POL Raptor) and back onto the chassis. October 1 is approaching quickly.

Jkviper

09-13-2019, 07:14 AM

Wow, that interior looks great and very tastefully done. Really enjoying your build thread.

WIS89

09-13-2019, 07:20 AM

Paul-

Welcome home; nice to hear about your trip, and the family reunion. Very cool of y'all to work on your parent's home! I love the message this sends to everyone, that family is important, and taking care of each other is a priority! (at least that's how I see it; please forgive me for elbowing my way into your family's message)

I am very sorry to hear about your wife's wrist. Once again, the laws of gravity are undefeated. I wish her a speedy (and painless) recovery!

As usual, your updates are terrific! I really like the way the interior is coming together. I know you must be excited about getting some color on her.

I remain inspired by both the quality and the speed with which you complete these builds! And, I really appreciate the time you spend so willingly to help out the rest of us!

Keep up the great work!

Regards,

Steve

WIS89

09-13-2019, 07:27 AM

Duplicate post, sorry!!

Papa

09-13-2019, 08:30 AM

I love the red stitching, Paul. It really gives the interior a modern, racy look.

Dave

GoDadGo

09-13-2019, 08:32 AM

I love the red stitching, Paul. It really gives the interior a modern, racy look.

Dave

Ditto Regarding Papa Dave's Comment!

If you want a steering wheel to match, then this one might be for you.

http://www.grantproducts.com/products/view/837/

You would need to change the hub, but the wheel also has the red stitching in addition to the top marker so it might match.

Looking Forward To Seeing Your Latest Work Of Art!

Straversi

09-13-2019, 09:23 AM

Nailed it! Great use of textures and patterns without going over the top. Can’t wait to see it with the seats and final trim. Speedy recovery to the boss.
-Steve

jdavis500

09-13-2019, 10:21 AM

Love it!

Bob Brandle

09-13-2019, 10:44 AM

Looks Wonderful Paul!! Great upgrading of the period correct design to a bit more modern and plush look, while keeping the racy look too. Works GREAT!!

Kool AC

09-13-2019, 12:56 PM

Looking good Paul. You continue to set the bar on these builds.

Jeff Kleiner

09-13-2019, 01:33 PM

Looks fantastic Paul!

Sorry to hear about Sharon's spill---here's wishing her a speedy recovery.

Jeff

Walt

09-15-2019, 09:26 AM

Paul, your build is looking great, i am installing an a/c setup in my roadster, i like your dash vents more then the ones that came with mine, might i ask where you got them?
Thanks
Walt

edwardb

09-15-2019, 11:23 AM

Paul, your build is looking great, i am installing an a/c setup in my roadster, i like your dash vents more then the ones that came with mine, might i ask where you got them?
Thanks
Walt

Thanks. And thanks to all the others for the positive and encouraging posts.

The center two vents are what came with the Gen 3 Coupe heat/A-C kit from Factory Five. I liked the style OK plus I like how they can be easily completely shut off. Since the setup doesn't have any duct or blend valves, serves as a kind of rudimentary control, e.g. force more air pressure to the defrosters, or to one side or the other. I found 499193 Vintage Air louvers were an exact external match. The kit supplied ones had longer internal threads, but both work for this installation and look identical. The two outside ones in my dash are the Vintage Air pieces. I bought them at Summit, but available from multiple sources.

Walt

09-15-2019, 03:13 PM

Great Paul, thanks , and again your builds are pretty amazing!!

Walt

edwardb

09-21-2019, 09:34 PM

Big day today. This morning my friend Greg, who’s building a challenge car and lives close by, came over and was a huge help completing the U-POL Raptor spray on the underside of the body and cowl. Super happy with how it turned out. But first some preliminary steps completed earlier this week. I’ve mentioned before, but I’m trying to get a decent enough finish in the cockpit roof to not use the kit supplied headliner. I really don’t want to mess with it, plus the roof kind of disappears behind the roll cage. So I’m hoping a clean, relatively smooth surface will be OK and look good.

I intentionally saved enough of the Lizard Skin Ceramic Insulation (CI) to coat the underside of the cockpit area. Not sure exactly how much but thought it might help to reduce heat radiated into the cockpit. Can’t hurt, right? So sanded the surface a bit to knock down the big bumps, masked it off, and gave it a spray. There are several coats.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114668&d=1569114457

The piece of Gorilla tape in the foreground has a story, which I’ll explain since it’s yet another lesson learned. I handle the body very carefully, turning it over, spinning around, etc. But when it’s on its roof like pictured here, the sides are quite flexible. Apparently, I wasn’t being careful enough because while working to mask off for the heat control spray, heard a cracking sound and found the back flange of the hatch opening cracked at the LH (as looking at the picture) hatch hinge opening. That area is under a lot of stress with the sides moving out, and the cut-out weakened it enough to crack there. I used some HSRF and some clamps to squeeze it back together. Then added two layers of glass in the area. I preemptively also put two layers of glass on the other side. Also left the glass across the cutout, and will trim out once the body is back on the chassis. The tape across the opening limited the movement of the sides to hopefully prevent any new damage. Lesson learned for other builders? Maybe not cut that back edge until the body is installed on the chassis for the last time. As an aside comment, the slot I cut is considerably smaller than the one shown in the manual. Some, with the revised hinges (which I have) report that no slot is required. I couldn’t find any position for the hinge where the slot wasn’t necessary.

Moving on, for the cowl, since the underside is exposed for the world to see with the cowl tipped up, spent some time trying to clean it up some. It does have a partial shell on the underside, which is an improvement over previous versions. And the remaining glass did have a pretty thick covering of some type of black undercoat material. But there was a lot of adhesive and rough edges to clean up. Then I decided it would really look a lot better if the open gaps between the rib pieces and the shell were filled. I think everything is bonded OK. But appearance could be better. So HSRF to the rescue again and filled everything in. Also chose to backfill the wheel opening lips with some HSRF to make a more gradual transition rather than the sharp angle. Did that for the front and rear wheels. Can’t see too much in these pictures but looks like this ready for spray.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114667&d=1569114450

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114666&d=1569114443

edwardb

09-21-2019, 09:36 PM

With that, time for masking and spraying. Spent a day plus getting everything masked including the outside of the body completely covered. My experience with spraying undercoat using a Shutz style gun is that material goes everywhere. So a complete mask is pretty important. I also took the time to mask all the edges, so they’ll be painted rather than have undercoat. And there are a lot of edges on these two big pieces. I spread two big tarps on my driveway and sprayed toward the woods. Fortunately, the weather cooperated with reasonable temps, no rain, and no wind. Perfect. Using the one gallon U-POL Raptor kit, was able to get a full coverage coat on everything (Greg was following behind checking as I went), two coats on the cockpit roof, and three coats in the rear wheel wells. The front wheel wells already have the thick factory coating, so didn’t need additional coats. Also got three coats on the rear splash guards. That used every last bit of the one gallon kit. A few hours ago, pulled all the masking. It’s cured enough to touch. But needs at least 24 hours, so I’m walking away from it until Monday. Tried to get a few pics. Shadows in the garage prevent good pictures. But the coverage and color is very consistent. Couple small details plus time to cure, and these pieces will go back on the chassis for the very last time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114672&d=1569114491

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114670&d=1569114473

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114669&d=1569114464

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114671&d=1569114484

Also, the rear splash guards.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114673&d=1569114500

So some comments/observations about the U-POL Raptor product and the application. I spent a lot of time reading the directions, watching YouTube videos, etc. First, note this is a urethane 2-part catalyzed product, so in theory cures to a much harder finish than air dry water or solvent based products. Like Herculiner. Plus it’s possible to have a finer finish than those brush or roller applied products. But it’s definitely more work, a little more expensive, and highly recommended to use a respirator, gloves, and use the product carefully. Note also since it’s catalyzed, once mixed the material has a one hour pot life and will completely cure in about 24 hours. You would need to save unmixed components to have any for touchup or whatever.

The kit that I bought included the “free” standard Shutz gun. It worked fine and it’s handy how it screws directly onto the bottles of material. I read several bad reviews. But seems if you clean it after each bottle, it sprays consistently. I found this to be the case. After each bottle, just sprayed some reducer through it and went to the next bottle. This material and gun will always spray a textured finish. I was OK with that but wanted it relatively smooth. (Relatively being the key word here…) After reading other recommendations and doing a little testing, found that between 60-70 PSI and 15–18 inches distance gave the finish I was happy with. For the second coat of spray on the underside of the cockpit, we added about 1/2 ounce of reducer to the last 1/2 bottle of material. Then sprayed from a slightly further distance. This gave an even finer/smoother finish. Perfect for the second coat but maybe wouldn’t provide as good of coverage for a first coat. Late yesterday, I found that U-POL sells a higher end adjustable gun (UPL-UP4880) than can apparently give an even smoother finish. Wish I would have found out about that sooner because probably would have sprung for it. But couldn’t have it here soon enough to get the spray completed and my assembled car to paint on Oct 1. Maybe next time. U-POL also describes a process where with even more reducer and a more standard HVLP gun, you can get an even finer finish. Didn't pursue that, but another option.

I don’t consider myself an expert sprayer by any means. But I’ve done enough of it over the years to be mildly experienced. I found this product and the process to be relatively straightforward and not hard to apply. I think anyone following the directions could do the same. The finish is vastly better than the brushed-on water-based undercoat of #8674. But then again, for a Roadster, the underside is basically unseen. For the Coupe, not the case. No question it’s harder and in the long run probably more durable. Which may or may not matter as the material under #8674 is still fine after three seasons and thousands of miles. Would I use it again? Absolutely. Probably my first choice now. Where appearance isn’t as critical, U-POL does sell a brush/roll-on version. Also a urethane 2-part catalyzed material. For a Roadster build, that’s something I’d seriously consider while avoiding the time and effort for spray masking.

That's it. Next week everything goes back together and ready for the painter the following week.

GoDadGo

09-22-2019, 05:54 AM

I'm a big fan of this product.
It really looks professional if you've got the touch which you most certainly do.
Super Job From This Guys Perspective!

Jim1855

09-22-2019, 10:52 AM

edwardb

09-22-2019, 10:57 AM

Paul,

Looks great. I hope to follow something similar for the Challenge Car. My abilities will be improved using your techniques as a guide, thanks.

Do you need assistance putting the body back on? Might be able to talk Daryl into a ride & visit.

Jim

Hey Jim. Thanks. My same buddy Greg is going to help put the body on. Probably this Tuesday. But you and Daryl are welcome to drop over any time. It will be out of the garage on Tuesday, Oct 1, however.

shark92651

09-23-2019, 08:08 AM

Looks great! The roof turned out real nice.

edwardb

09-27-2019, 04:49 PM

It’s been a busy week, but the build is back together and ready to take for paint next week. The good news is the various body parts all went back into place with alignment and gaps as I had them before. Had to tweak the bumpers just a bit on the back edge of the cowl, but that was it. Picked up my last batch of powder coated parts. Front lower splash panels, rear outside cockpit corners, and rear wheel well upper front fill pieces all permanently attached. Used some seam sealer to close up any remaining gaps or openings. There are just a handful of panels left. Front and rear splash guards, back hatch wall, and fuel filler cover. Those will go on after paint. Feels good to be putting so much together for the last time. Couple more details, and it will be ready to trailer over.

Took it off the lift, the Coyote fired right up, and backed out of the garage for a couple pics. If some of the exterior pictures look similar to ones posted before, that’s good! Nice to see the mostly finished interior inside the body. Tried to get a couple pics of the cockpit roof finish. To be honest, it’s a bit rougher than I wanted it to be. With more practice and improved technique, I’m sure it could be better. The best finish (e.g. smoothest) is the inside of the back wall of the body. Which will be completely hidden once the back hatch wall is installed. Go figure. But still happy I went that way versus trying to stick up the provided headliner material. One other thing I did was raise the ride height slightly. I just barely touched the underside of the chassis the last time I took it off the trailer. Probably can resolve by raising the nose of the trailer a bit. But for now just put a turn on each coilover. Enough talk. Pictures without further comment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115066&d=1569618870

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115067&d=1569618878

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115071&d=1569618907

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115073&d=1569621264

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115068&d=1569618885

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115070&d=1569618899

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115069&d=1569618892

Next update and pictures should be with paint underway.

Papa

09-27-2019, 04:56 PM

Looks great, Paul. Can't wait to see it wearing shiny new paint.

Jeff Kleiner

09-27-2019, 06:23 PM

edwardb

09-27-2019, 08:05 PM

I like the roof treatment a lot Paul! I have a box with headliner for the Gen 3 I'm working on but I think it will just stay there---in the box---and we'll go with something like this. How is the mold panel alignment on your main body? This one is bad, really bad :( Not looking forward to it.

Jeff

Hey Jeff. Thanks. My first impressions of the body as a whole were mostly positive. In the end, I'm pleased that what I'm taking to the painter isn't bad either. Some work for them, but not terrible. Alignment and gaps turned out decent. The doors fit well and all the curves match quite well. The final product should be outstanding. But looking back quite a bit of work to get it there. Panel match on the main body was mostly OK. Worst spots are on each side behind the quarter window scoops. Will require some serious sanding (grinding) and filling by my painter. I didn't try to do anything there. In general, the parting lines were a little rough. After knocking them down a bit I picked out some clay and filled back with HSRF. You can see that in the pictures. But match isn't bad. Did have to do a little repair on the inside again in the area of the quarter windows. Those areas on both sides are definitely where some improvement is needed. The hood (cowl) in general was pretty good as far as the glass work although both wheel openings required a little bit of repair along the front edge at the bottom. I did some major clean-up on the inside, detailed a few posts ago. You may/may not want to bother with that. My biggest complaint with the cowl is that the wheel lips are not symmetrical side-to-side. I fought with it a long time before I discovered the right lip is about 1/2-inch further out than the left one. If you try to align the cowl strictly on the wheel well lips (e.g. measuring to a fixed point on the chassis) it will be off center in the front and the back edge and pontoons won't align properly. I see it when looking at the car because I know it's there. But most would never notice it. Just part of its character I guess. I'm pleased FF has apparently made some improvements to the Mk4 Roadster body. Something similar to that on the Gen 3 Coupe would make a great kit even better. This post sounds a little negative, and don't necessarily mean it to be. I love the car and can't wait for it to be done and start driving. But the body could be better.

Jeff Kleiner

09-27-2019, 08:50 PM

...My biggest complaint with the cowl is that the wheel lips are not symmetrical side-to-side. I fought with it a long time before I discovered the right lip is about 1/2-inch further out than the left one...

Yeah, discovered that while doing the Coupe at SEMA last year.

...I'm pleased FF has apparently made some improvements to the Mk4 Roadster body...

I know what I've been told by Dave & Tony and we'll see soon enough; 25th Anniversary car #1 will be arriving here very shortly. But we digress---let's get back to your Coupe! Look forward to seeing bodywork updates!

Jeff

wareaglescott

09-28-2019, 05:22 AM

Looking great Paul. Cant wait to see some color on it. Really great idea on the roof treatment.

GoDadGo

09-28-2019, 06:14 AM

Paul & Jeff,

Thanks for the most recent discussion about the body fit, parting lines and symmetry issues.
Also, I'm glad you fellows are happy with the UPOL Raptor Product.
I've really grown to love this stuff!
Can't wait to see it in paint.

Steve

edwardb

10-01-2019, 04:28 PM

Today I loaded the Coupe into the SE and delivered to the shop for paint. Next in line into the booth behind the blue car that's getting final details. They promised pictures. But also said I can visit any time I want and it's only about an hour away. So will be doing that and have progress pics. Promised for about 8 weeks. This was also the last ride in the 14-foot SE. My new 16-footer should be done by the time the paint is done. Also supposed to have my fully polished side pipes sometime in October. Finish line is still a ways away. But definitely getting closer.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115312&d=1569964706

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115313&d=1569964713

GashF16

10-01-2019, 05:28 PM

Exciting! I'm looking forward to seeing the progress photos. In the meantime, what is the make and model of the 16-foot trailer you're getting? I'm looking for a good trailer.

edwardb

10-01-2019, 09:49 PM

...what is the make and model of the 16-foot trailer you're getting? I'm looking for a good trailer.

Sorry, used acronyms without thinking about it. SE (mentioned a couple times in my post) = Serpent Express. That's a brand and configuration trailer that a bunch of us use. More info here: http://www.serpentexpress.com/. The trailer in the picture above is their aluminum deck 14-foot model that I've had for a number of years for my Roadster. It's been all over the country. Unfortunately, it's too short for the Coupe. Goes in, as pictured, but is tight against the front and the rear cover stretches over the back. OK for unpainted, but totally unacceptable once painted. Plus the door location is marginal and with the nose all the way to the front it's really a pain to hook up the tie-downs. A local club member bought the 14-foot trailer for his Backdraft and I ordered a new Serpent Express exactly like it except the 16-foot model. He's letting me use the trailer until my new one is ready. That extra two feet will be handy for both the Roadster and the Coupe.

Hoschton Hotrod Haus

10-10-2019, 04:09 PM

There are not a lot of good options for mounting computer, this is what I did, it is similar to where it is on the Mustang, etc on the Mustang it is cover with more wire and a fuse block.
https://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah105/cobradriver2/IMG_20181122_112349410_zpsnxgisqnw.jpg (https://s1378.photobucket.com/user/cobradriver2/media/IMG_20181122_112349410_zpsnxgisqnw.jpg.html)

Paul,
Can you send me a picture of where you mounted the Power Distribution Box

Yhanks

edwardb

10-10-2019, 06:27 PM

Paul,
Can you send me a picture of where you mounted the Power Distribution Box

Thanks

The Coupe is at the painter, so not here to take a current pic. Here are a couple during construction. First shows where I put the PDB and routed some of the harness legs. The second shows further in the build with the engine in, but still lots of loose ends.

Two other comments. First, I assume you know the picture you included in your question isn't my build. That's a Gen 2 Coyote and based on other decisions I made regarding layout, my PCM wouldn't have fit there. Second, responding to a post in your other thread that the PDB would fit behind the dash and the PCM behind the engine. I would add "it depends." The Coyote installation has to take into account all of your build decisions. In my case, I added other electronics behind the dash (headlight controller, keyless ignition, T-56 controller, all described in this thread), a glovebox, a custom switch panel, and four dash HVAC outlets instead of two. Zero room for the PDB, and wherever you put it must be accessible since it has service parts inside. If you put the PCM anywhere beside around the front right corner of the engine, you'll need to reorient the engine harness. Many do it, so it's possible. Just something I've chosen not to do. Bottom line for me, mock up everything before finalizing anything.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97585&d=1542472737

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99524&d=1545753543

edwardb

10-15-2019, 04:51 PM

Today I visited the shop where the Coupe is getting painted. First time back since delivering it there. Happy to report body work is moving right along. They are hoping to spray sealer by the end of the week. These pictures don’t show too much, other than evidence of lots of filling, sanding, and dust. Had a chance to meet and talk a bit with the guy doing the work. I was pleased and impressed with his attention to detail and wanting to get it just right. He was happy in general with how everything lined up, gaps, etc. He said it was quite a bit of work getting the mold mismatch behind the quarter windows fixed. But looked really good from what I could tell. They haven't done a Coupe before. Only Roadsters. So one of the conditions I asked for (and also because I’m local) was that I personally do any assembly and disassembly. Saves them time trying to figure stuff out plus I want to preserve the alignment on everything and (I hope) know best how to do that. With my retirement schedule, I can get there most any time with short notice. Today’s trip was to remove the doors, door frames, and hood latches. Now that basic body work and panel matching is completed. The body will stay on throughout the process, as I’ve already described. They haven’t decided yet about the hood (cowl) but easy to remove if they want me to. On a side note, he said the Coupe has been a bit of a distraction in the shop. It’s a pretty big place with quite a few people working there. He said it gets a lot of traffic and everyone is really interested in the final result. So am I! Pictures from today:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116076&d=1571172701

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116075&d=1571172693

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116077&d=1571172712

While the Coupe is out of the home shop, have been finishing up some other open items as much as I could. One of the subjects talked about a lot is the wheel spinner adapters and various ways to keep the threads from locking and/or the adapter spinning in the wheel. Making it difficult or impossible to remove. I’ve drilled and tapped for set screws through the wheels and through the adapters on previous builds. It’s 100% effective and was planning to do the same on this build. Lots of other choices (o-rings, pool noodles, silicone adhesive, etc.) but still prefer something more mechanical. Then I saw another set screw option in a build thread and stole that idea. Instead of a set screw through the wheel and adapter, which isn’t hard but a little tedious, the idea is three set screws on the inside of the adapter only. These lock against the ID of the wheel. Was pretty easy to do and I think will be effective. I used 10-32 SS cap screws. Could have used regular set screws. But these have a bigger Allen head and a bit easier to work with.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116072&d=1571172598

I confirmed that when the drill and tap is positioned exactly in the center of the flat between the adapter threads and angle, the set screws hit a matching flat on the ID of the wheels. Perfect.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116073&d=1571172618

To install, before tightening the screws, I’ll put the adapter in the wheel with the lug nut cover and spinner tightened. That will hold the adapter properly angled and centered. Then tighten the three set screws along with some blue Loctite. Need to not overtighten as the threads are in aluminum. But with the testing I’ve done, as long as all three are reasonably tight, the adapter is locked into place. Also on this build I’m trying the CRC Dry Graphite Lube recommended by Jeff Kleiner for the spinner threads. I’ve used a light coating of anti-seize in the past. Seems to work OK. But does get a bit gummy and stiff. This material is a little different than I expected. Almost goes on like spray paint, e.g. black and dries in place. So you’ll want to mask off like paint. I have all four ready to install. Will be interested to see how it works. I’m guessing all good.

edwardb

10-15-2019, 04:51 PM

I also had some remaining work on my door cards. The shop that did interior work for me mainly just did the stitching and placed the padding (where used) and vinyl panels. I did most of the wrap and final details. So finished the wrap on the door cards, plus did the cutout and wrap for the door handles and openings for the bins I fabricated and showed previously. Happy with how they turned out. Matches the theme of the rest of the interior.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116078&d=1571172745

Also put padding and vinyl in the inside of the bins, and carpet on the bottom. The bar, which I’ve shown before, is attached to the door along with the bin. It sits right below the bottom edge of the opening in the door card, and is strong enough and in the right location to use to open and close the door.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116079&d=1571172752

Finally, totally off topic (and you can tell I’m running out of tasks for the Coupe) some time ago I scored a very cool Ford Racing neon sign. Wasn’t sure where I was going to put it. In the basement somewhere or in the garage shop. My wife already ruled out putting it somewhere in the house itself. Imagine that. Went with the garage shop. Maybe I need to hit Ford up for some advertising revenue. Wish me luck. Regardless, I like it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116074&d=1571172628

That’s it. I’ll keep the paint progress updates coming.

GoDadGo

10-15-2019, 05:54 PM

Dang Paul,

I wish I had 1/2 of your talent.

Steve

edwardb

10-18-2019, 03:34 PM

First coats going down. This is when it starts getting good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116199&d=1571430521

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116200&d=1571430530

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116201&d=1571430537

David Williamson

10-19-2019, 07:40 AM

They are moving along quickly, you should get it home soon.
Going red again??
David W

edwardb

10-19-2019, 08:34 AM

They are moving along quickly, you should get it home soon.
Going red again??
David W

Agreed. They are making good progress. The promised finish date is early December or sooner. Seems the "or sooner" could happen, but we'll see. And yes to your question. :cool:

Paul Mischenko

10-19-2019, 12:02 PM

Hey Paul, Tried to stay way from looking at your Coupe build log so I don't get any ideas to start another one! After following your 20th Ann build so closely I had no doubt that this was going to be an amazing build as well. Which it certainly is. Congratulations, your talent is really amazing, along with your ability to update the community which I know was a great help to me with my roadster build. Can't wait to see it with color. Cheers

shark92651

10-19-2019, 02:40 PM

edwardb

10-22-2019, 06:24 AM

Progress continues. Like how it looks. Another coat of primer and wet sand after this. Then should see some color.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116510&d=1571743300

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116509&d=1571743291

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116508&d=1571743279

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116507&d=1571743271

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116506&d=1571743264

edwardb

10-29-2019, 01:38 PM

Received these pics today. I'll be visiting end of the week, and they're saying should have color going down by then. Looking really clean and straight.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116872&d=1572373734

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116873&d=1572373740

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116874&d=1572373747

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116875&d=1572373755

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116876&d=1572373763

Papa

10-29-2019, 02:11 PM

Looks like it's coming along nicely … and quickly! Can't wait for color.

KDubU

10-29-2019, 04:43 PM

Red? ;) I did see one gen II in dark red with dark grey stripes and it was very nice.

edwardb

10-29-2019, 05:21 PM

Red? ;) I did see one gen II in dark red with dark grey stripes and it was very nice.

Yes... and no. :o

Garage Guy

10-30-2019, 05:49 AM

I am banking on Red with white stripes?

edwardb

10-30-2019, 06:06 AM

I am banking on Red with white stripes?

Half right. Candy red and I'm not doing stripes. No big secret or drama. Thought I had mentioned that in an earlier post. But this is getting long to say the least. Will have white trim on the back, similar to Peter Brock's personal Coupe. And some white trim on the engine cover. But that's it. Going for a clean, modern, sports car look. No numbers, advertising, etc.

Garage Guy

10-30-2019, 06:13 AM

Sounds like it is going to look sharp! Can't wait to see it.

edwardb

11-22-2019, 06:50 PM

It’s been a couple weeks. Thought I’d at least check in. These projects have a lot of moving parts and remind me all too much of my former life with project management. Right now I’m chasing five different things that are affecting my build. Kind of goes with the territory, but for someone who has never been accused of being very patient, I’m struggling a little. Especially since it’s too cold and crummy out for any more cruising with the Roadster. Wish I had more to share today, but here’s progress on a couple fronts.

#1: My new Serpent Express is in the house. Drove to R&R Trailers in Three Rivers, MI on Wednesday and picked up my new 16-foot SE. Couple of minor differences, but essentially the same as my previous 14 footer, just a little longer. The Coupe will fit and extra room for the Roadster. The new owner of my previous trailer picked it up today. That’s one thing off the list.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117914&d=1574466438

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117913&d=1574466426

#2: The final polished version of my Gen 3 Coupe/Coyote side pipes arrived this week from Georgie at Gas-N. Wow, they are like jewelry. I’ll get them mounted on the Coupe during final assembly when it comes back from paint. I’m a huge fan of the twin pipe look on the Coupe. And also like my bling. Polished stainless looks amazing. These are the first production pipes to be delivered. Contact Georgie is you're interested for your build. You won't be disappointed. That's two things off the list.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117912&d=1574466416

#3: Paint. Wish I had something new to share here. Was hoping to get an update today but didn’t. It’s completely ready for color. Primer is done, wet sanded, etc. as I previously posted. Last week I visited the shop and approved the color spray-outs. Now just waiting for my turn in the booth. On the home stretch, just need to get it finished and back in the home shop. Will lose a couple days because of the Thanksgiving holiday. So suspect I’m still 7-10 days away unless something happened in the last couple days I don’t know about. One comment that may be of interest. The color I have on my Roadster is Ford RZ Red Candy 2, which is a tri-coat. Love the color and specified the same on the Coupe. Since that time, the shop has switched from Standox to Sikkens. They said they could get very close to the effect of the tri-coat with a more standard Sikkens base coat/clear coat. I agreed and that’s what Sikkens mixed. It’s hard to exactly compare small samples but looks really good. It’s a bit cheaper for materials, spraying is much simpler, and acceptable touch-up is more possible.

The other two items aren’t affecting anything at this moment, so I’ll leave them out for now. Hopefully my next post will be colorful. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. We have a lot to be thankful for.