Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report [Archive]

edwardb

12-02-2017, 03:15 PM

April 2020: The build is completed! Table of Contents posted on last page. Link (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Complete-and-Graduated&p=405315&viewfull=1#post405315)

Time to start another build! This will be my fourth FF build, and the first one that doesn't look like a Roadster. I’ve always had my eye on the Type 65 Coupe. When Factory Five announced the Gen 3 Coupe, I started considering it more seriously. I saw it in person for the first time at the 2017 Open House in Wareham. Then again at the 2017 London Cobra Show. I like what they've done with it, and am excited to start this all over again. I really enjoy the build process and this looks like an interesting challenge. This will be a 99% street cruiser. Of course performance is important. But also want it to be streetable and relatively comfortable. With a top and HVAC, maybe some added comfort compared to the Roadster. Still a fair weather car though and will spend Michigan winters in hibernation. I'm planning to take my time with the build. Probably in the 2 year range. The 20th Anniversary Roadster isn't going anywhere though! It's staying right here. So, something to build and something to drive. Doesn’t get better than that.

I had the first week of September circled on my calendar as the right time to order my Coupe. That fit with some other stuff going on including getting my garage and workshop rehab completed. When the time came, thank you Factory Five for announcing the first sale on the Gen 3 Coupe! I placed my order and received a November 18 completion date. I ordered the following:

Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe Complete Kit
Gloss black powder coated chassis
Body cutouts and Nose Scoops
GPS Gauge Set
31 Spline Coyote T-56 Magnum w/IRS driveshaft
5.0L Coyote Install Kit
Vinyl Roadster Seats. Will replace with high backs. TBD
2015+ Mustang based IRS
Double Adjustable Koni shocks
Black Carpet Package
Leather Steering Wheel
Front and rear swaybar
18-inch wheels (free with Fall Sale!!)
Wilwood 12.88-inch brakes front and rear, black calipers
Stewart Delivery

This is the first time I haven't picked up my kit in person. Not sure how well it would fit into my 14-foot SE plus I really don't need the long drive and mess around with sales tax which wasn't the case before. I'm still working on the details of the actual build plan. Lots of TBD's that I'll decide about as I go and start mocking things up, plus watch and learn from other builds.

Like my Anniversary Roadster build, this will be a Coyote build. Just can’t say enough good things about that engine in these cars. The Roadster is just awesome with the Gen 2 Coyote it has. With the 2018 Mustang, now in production, Ford introduced the Gen 3 Coyote. More power (of course!) and some interesting new features. Somehow Gen 3 Coupe and Gen 3 Coyote has a nice ring to it and I enjoy trying new stuff. Ford is saying they will have a crate version of the Gen 3 Coyote “sometime” in 2018. I will stay on top of it and hopefully that will work out.

I've also decided to go with a T56 Magnum to get 6 speeds plus supposedly it shifts nice. The price is only slightly more than the Liberty modified TKO's I've used on my last two builds. A little bit bigger and heavier, but looks like it fits into the Gen 3 Coupe OK.

The IRS, sway bars, shocks and brakes are all the same as on my current 20th Anniversary Roadster. Everything about that car is absolutely perfect, so I'm not changing anything there. I'll be doing heat and A/C for the first time. Still looking at options for the PS and A/C pumps on the Coyote. There are several. I'm not going to go crazy, but I want the interior to be nicely finished and detailed. Carpet, headliner, nice dash, etc. I'm going to decide about seats later as well. We'll see how that all works out.

I'm also pretty certain I'm going to try a hydraulic throw-out bearing setup. I've done a hydraulic clutch on my last two Roadster builds, and love how well it works. Plus with the Wilwood pedal box it's easy at that end. But I'm leaning towards not doing the external slave and instead doing an internal hydraulic TOB. That's what the newer Mustangs use. I've heard nothing but good things about the Tilton 6000 TOB, so that's what I'm considering. Yes, it's risky because of major tear-down in case of issues. We'll see.

So, these are the details of my build plan so far:

2018+ Gen 3 Coyote Crate Engine and Controls Pack
4 into 4 straight tube headers (TBD)
QuickTime bell housing (only option with the T56)
Ford Racing billet steel flywheel
Ford Racing / Centerforce dual friction clutch
Tilton 6000 hydraulic throw-out bearing
Tremec Magnum T-56 6-speed transmission (2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, .80, .63)
3.73 Torsen 2015+ IRS center section. Interested to try the Torsen version, plus the 3.73 ratio matches up with the T56 perfectly
Heater, defroster, and A/C (details TBD)
Heated seats if possible (orders from the boss)
Hydraulic power steering (likely Breeze rack and KRC pump)
Manual brakes (kit supplied Wilwood pedal box)
Full aluminum panel powder coat and Lizard Skin insulation
Mustang style coolant routing and aftermarket expansion tank
High finish interior including dash, gauges/switches, carpet, headliner, etc.
Cruise control (maybe)
Aftermarket wipers and washers (not Lucas)
All LED lighting, footwell lights, trunk light, backup light, center brake light in spoiler
Breeze locking cap under LeMans cap
Rigid stainless fuel and brake lines, Pro-M 3/8-inch fuel pump hangar
Floor mod above trunk (like in the Roadsters) to claim unused space above the tank, with a hinged cover
Color and stripe (if used) TBD. Thinking about blue, but I’ve said that before. Kind of stuck on candy red. We’ll see.

Received word and a picture from Factory Five that my Coupe was finished on the promised date and ready for pickup. Lost a few days due to the Thanksgiving weekend, but Stewart picked it up earlier this week and today was delivery day. Driver arrived just before lunchtime as promised, and everything is in my garage now. The backorder list is about one page long. Shorter than my Anniversary Roadster, but missing some key parts. Front LCA’s, all four IRS control arms, and toe arms. Once I complete the inventory I’ll talk to Factory Five and hopefully get some updates about the backorders. In general, the chassis and body look great. No obvious defects with the body that I can see. As noted in the title, my Coupe has serial number 59.

I’m doing this build thread with the pictures hosted on the forum. I’ve used Photobucket for some years. But because of changes they made regarding third party hosting and costs, going another direction. First pic is in the rack at Factory Five. Balance are from the delivery completed today.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77326&d=1512137737

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77370&d=1512244708

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77371&d=1512244721

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77375&d=1512244793

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77376&d=1512244807

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77377&d=1512244839

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77380&d=1512244868

Away we go!

Vette1972

12-02-2017, 03:28 PM

Edwardb,

Really looking forward to your build! Your 20th Anniversary was just a super job. I like the options you have listed for the build. I'm sure you will keep us posted. Congrats on delivery!

Len

mcduke3

12-02-2017, 03:51 PM

Just as many others are, I am very much looking forward to following this build. I'm sure I am going to learn a lot! Congrats on the delivery and good luck on the build!

GT Trooper

12-02-2017, 04:28 PM

Very nice sir - I'll be tuned in as well.

Jeff Kleiner

12-02-2017, 05:25 PM

Now the fun starts Paul! Gonna' enjoy following along :)

Jeff

JRL16

12-02-2017, 06:17 PM

Congrats Paul. Looking forward to keeping up with your build. Enjoy!

GoDadGo

12-02-2017, 06:20 PM

Paul,

I Can't Wait For You To Show Us All How A Type-65 Should Be Done!

Steve

Mark Eaton

12-02-2017, 10:42 PM

Paul,

This is awesome! I'm a little surprised with the choice of T-56 magnum but will watch with interest. Maybe I'll use one on my next build:) What about ABS?? I am planning to forge ahead with a 2015 ABS system on my MK4 build, maybe you can demonstrate the proper way to do it while I blunder along...

Paul2STL

12-02-2017, 10:57 PM

Paul,

Congratulations I will be following as well. If this build thread is anything like the 20th anniversary build thread, this will become a Gen3 coupe build manual. I am building a roadster with a coyote and your build has been my manual. You have done top notch builds in the past and this one I bet will be no different. Look forward to following.

edwardb

12-02-2017, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the positive feedback and encouragement. Looking forward to getting started.

I'm a little surprised with the choice of T-56 magnum but will watch with interest. Maybe I'll use one on my next build:) What about ABS?? I am planning to forge ahead with a 2015 ABS system on my MK4 build, maybe you can demonstrate the proper way to do it while I blunder along...

The T56 decision was based on several factors. I've been happy with my modded TKO's. They shift fine. Maybe no better than a stock TKO. That's been discussed a lot. But by all accounts the T56 shifts better than TKO, so that was one thing. Also the six speeds basically mean a second overdrive compared to the TKO, meaning you have an overdrive that can be used at less than highway cruise speed. But also I want to try the Torsen setup, available only in the 3.73 ratio without custom assembly. The T56 ratios work better with the 3.73, as I mentioned in the first post. All led to the T56 decision. Not going to pursue ABS. You're on your own there. Sorry. :D

wareaglescott

12-03-2017, 08:36 AM

edwardb

12-03-2017, 09:25 AM

Look forward to following along.
I have never even heard of a hydraulic TOB. Look forward to learning about that and I'm sure many other topics. Thanks for documenting this all again. Spectacular resource for the rest of us!

The video from Tilton shows the hydraulic TOB I'm considering. Interestingly, the installation is an FF Roadster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2JAoHhy0A

Dlirium

12-03-2017, 06:47 PM

The 50/50 Sale for ALL FF cars was just announced, so I'm putting in my order for my first FF, the Type 65. REALLY looking forward to your thread!

Al_C

12-03-2017, 08:17 PM

Best wishes on the new build!

Shawn818c

12-03-2017, 09:30 PM

Awesome Paul! I love the 65 coupe as well, would love to check it out sometime

edwardb

12-03-2017, 11:21 PM

Awesome Paul! I love the 65 coupe as well, would love to check it out sometime

Give me shout. I'm about 30 minutes away.

edwardb

12-04-2017, 08:54 PM

Today I completed a detailed inventory of everything received. 30 boxes and piles of packing paper later, pretty good results. I had two parts missing and one damaged. That’s it. Significantly better than my last Roadster build. I have 24 parts on my backorder list (POL). Most are minor and whenever they come is OK. But I am missing all the IRS control arms plus the front lower control arms. So I’m obviously anxious to get those so I can starting hanging the suspensions. I’ve got follow-up underway with Factory Five and hopefully they will have some good news for me. Once again I was reminded how important the inventory step is. Not only to make sure you have everything you paid for, but just to see and handle the parts, gain familiarity, etc. I open every bag, count very nut and bolt, measure everything, test the electrical parts, etc. There are a number of parts I’ve seen before. But also quite a few different ones with the Coupe. I was digging through the manual more than once figuring things out. As I’ve done in the past, generally left everything in the boxes they came in, and will use the box by box listing to retrieve things when needed. Marking them off as I go. Same with the backorder items. I’ll add them to the boxes they were supposed to be in when they arrive. Staying organized is important with these builds IMO.

I received what appears to be the newer version of the Ron Francis harness. The wiring manual is revision S, dated February 2017. I didn't go through every detail, but appears one of the big changes is the dash harness. Given the struggles some have had with the Speedhut gauges, this will be a nice improvement. Harness is different plus even explained in the manual. I'll probably see some other differences once I get to actual wiring.

Also like how the new Coupe comes with LED lights for the front and rear running lights, turn signals, brake lights. Nice touch. Still the old style halogen headlights though. I'll be changing those to LED as well.

It’s still early, so no assembly progress to report. But some impressions after having the new Coupe in my garage for a few days. The body is clean, in good shape, with little/no repair needed. I was a little nervous because some earlier builds showed some pictures of some not very nice defects. But nothing like that from what I’ve seen so far and I looked it over very closely. Both the windshield and rear glass appear to fit well. There is a little bit of the usual weld splatter on the chassis, but not too bad. The powder coat looks nice. The space frame chassis is just so different from the Roadsters I’ve built. Here’s a picture from underneath while up on my new lift. (Love it.) You can just see the motor mounts in the foreground. Looks nice and wide for engine and transmission options. This chassis doesn’t use a transmission frame like the Roadsters. There’s a bracket that goes across the back for the rear mount. Also visible in this picture is the sheet steel welded in where your feet are in the footboxes.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77421&d=1512437472

The front and rear IRS suspensions appear identical to what I had with Roadster #8674. The front swaybar attachment is slightly different. Rear swaybar is the same. One interesting difference is two sets of holes for the control arms. One for normal height, and a lower set for a race/competition setup. Several of the build threads have commented about the width of the Coupe body compared to the standard suspension setup. I measured 72-5/8 inches body width at the top of the rear wheel lips. #8674 with the same 2015+ IRS suspension measures 70-3/8 inches wide at the top of the rear tires. That explains why several have suggested using 1 or 1-1/8 inch hubcentric wheel spacers on the Coupe. I’ll be doing the same. There are a number of nicely fabricated laser cut/welded parts. The very substantial door hinges, door frames, hatch hinges, body mounts are all examples. Nice work Factory Five. The bearclaw door latches will be a nice upgrade from the vintage Roadster latches.

Onward!

dnew

12-05-2017, 11:40 AM

Paul,

And you have started! I too will follow, and if I build another FF it will probably be the coupe and as with the roadster this will be my go-to thread. I appreciate your details and it looks like you have a great setup and along with all your experience to make this your best build yet. I think the HRB/TOB is the way to go. They are used on modern muscle and with your attention to detail and setup, I think it will be fine.

M3ichael

12-06-2017, 11:59 AM

Looking forward to this build. Congrats Paul.

Jazzman

12-07-2017, 02:04 AM

A bit late to the party, but congrats from sunny Arizona! I have already subscribed to this thread. I am sure it will be required reading just as your other builds have been. Thank you for taking us with you on the journey. Merry Christmas!

Garry Bopp

12-07-2017, 02:52 PM

Paul,

I will definitely enjoy following your build, Paul. My Gen 3 coupe is on "delayed delivery" due to family issues but I will look forward to using your build as a great resource!

Garry

edwardb

12-12-2017, 09:55 AM

It’s been over a week since my last update. The fast builders might have a roller by now (!). Not me. Still thinking, planning, shopping, some minor work and assembly, lots of reading, tinkering, and just staring at the thing.

I have a line by line response from Factory Five regarding my 20+ backorder items and couple of parts issues. Most were supposed to be available in a week or two. Haven’t seen any shipments or notifications yet, but hopefully soon. Not holding me up but will be happy mainly when I can get enough parts to put the suspensions together.

I’ve spent quite a lot of time going through the manual reviewing the major assembly steps, very roughly mocking up or visualizing a number of things, and trying to familiarize myself with the Coupe build. This is just something I do, and actually really enjoy it. While there are a number of similarities to the previous Roadster builds, there are also a number of significant differences. Some because of the very different frame design. Also obviously the body with the tip-up nose is very different. The newly released Gen 3 build manual is a huge help (kudos to guys who did early builds without manuals!) but is still a work in process IMO. A lot of the pictures are stock pictures (Roadster, previous Coupes versions, etc.) or of parts that have since changed. Like the front body hinges. Some details are a little sketchy though, mainly for me anyway there just isn’t much detail on electrical or wiring. Donor Mustang harness wiring has some pages, but little on the RF harness. The RF harness manual only shows the Roadster. I’m not even sure where to mount the RF fuse panel since that area of the DS footbox is very different. But wiring doesn’t bother me and I’ll figure it all out. Also I'll be watching other build threads plus probably see other Gen 3's in person during my build. Everything helps. Note these comments aren’t meant to be critical. Just where the kit is at right now.

My build plan is for power steering. No debate there at all. I have done builds with and without, and there’s no comparison. As I say whenever this comes up on the forum (a lot…) not just for reduced effort mainly at slow speeds, but for the increased caster and how it makes the car drive. I was a little on the bubble about how to do the power steering on this build. Looked at a couple of the electric options, did some research, read lots of posts and reviews, looked at costs, etc. After all was said and done, going to stay traditional with a hydraulic steering rack and engine driven pump. Ordered the Unisteer 3-turn rack from Mark at Breeze. I’ve used this rack twice before and it’s excellent. Not the cheapest or the most expensive, but for me hits the sweet spot of quality and good performance. Not sure which Coyote PS pump setup I’ll use yet. There are several options that also work together with A/C. But won’t make any decisions or spend $ until the engine decision is final. The KRC pump along with the Breeze rack on #8674 is perfect, so will try to duplicate that as much as possible. That theme will repeat itself a lot. For now, I’m waiting for the rack to be delivered. Typically takes a week or two to drop ship from the vendor. I’ll be using Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends and Energy Suspension 9.13101G tie rod dust boots also as before. Already received from Summit. Their shipping speed continues to amaze.

I found the supplied Mevotech upper ball joints don’t fit the upper control arms. Again. This is an often discussed issue. I know there are ways to probably get them to fit. But I’m going to use the same Howe Racing 22320S upper ball joints as #8674. They’re super high quality parts and go in perfectly. Goes along with my ongoing theme of staying with what worked so well on the last build. This was discussed quite a bit in another thread. No need to duplicate here. http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/538873-upper-ball-joints-ugh.html. Also using the Energy Suspension 5.13102G boots on the upper ball joints.

I’ve probably spent the most time going through all the boxes and retrieving bare metal parts that I will take for powder coat. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are a number of fabricated parts for this build. Mainly steel and are unfinished. Things like front body hinges, rear body mounts, door hinges, door frames, transmission mount, hatch hinges, sway bar mounts, etc. I went through all of them cleaning them up a bit. Taking off rough edges, the little “nibs” left over from laser cutting, minor weld splatter, etc. I have a couple more on my backorder list. When those are received will take the parts to be coated. These will all be gloss black to match the frame powder coat. I’ll be powder coating all the aluminum panels as well. Still undecided about the color for those. This isn’t much of a picture, but box of goodies so far.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77707&d=1513083561

The big issue I’ve been dealing with though is obtaining the IRS differential and knuckles/hubs. For #8674, it was early in the game and the parts weren’t available for purchase separately. I was very fortunate to obtain a zero mile takeout IRS complete assembly. It was big, heavy, and some work to disassemble and rehab the parts. But it was the only choice at the time and I thought I could recoup some of the cost by selling the leftover parts. Wasn’t the case. Made about $60 total and still ended up putting some out for recycle. Just no market for OE parts. At least at that time. For this build, I decided early on I wanted to do a 6-speed T-56 Magnum transmission. With the T-56 ratios available, the 3.73 diff ratio is spot on. In stock form, that meant the Torsen version diff. But that was OK since I was interested in trying that too. Since making these decisions some months ago, I’ve been watching for a deal on a 3.73 Torsen diff. They rarely came up. When they did, weren’t particularly cheap (typically twice the non-Torsen versions) and nothing like the zero miles diff I obtained before. Were off wrecked/salvage cars, and in a couple cases, meant taking the whole IRS pallet again. Plus once those have been on the road, the iron case (the only version for the 3.73 as best I can tell) looks like it has barnacles it’s so rusty. Now it’s decision time with no prospects, plus at this point I want to stay with all new parts. So I decided to bite the bullet and order a brand new diff. (What budget???) Placed the order for the 3.73 IRS Torsen diff and knuckles/hubs from the place that had the best price, which turned out was the same place I bought the Coyote and related for #8674. They contacted me almost immediately and told me that Ford Performance has discontinued the M-4001-88373T diff and they couldn’t get one for me since they drop ship from Ford Performance directly. Good grief! I started shopping around, and found the same story from multiple suppliers. But I did end up finding a new one sitting on the shelf so I grabbed it. Was a little more expensive still (never ends I guess) and is on a truck and should be here later this week. My knuckles and hubs are supposed to be delivered today. I ordered the vent plug and tube from Tasca Parts and they should be here in a few days as well. I’ll get the diff painted and prepped and hung in the chassis soon I hope. Our youngest son and wife will be here for the holidays. Maybe I can get him to help add some muscle to get it in. But this all is a bit of a mystery to me. Looks to me like Ford is still offering the 3.73 Torsen option on the 2018 Mustang as part of their Performance Pack. Maybe it’s something different now. Or maybe they’re no longer offering them through Ford Performance. Doesn’t matter now because it looks like I’m all set. But might be something for other builds to watch out for if you want to go this way.

Still on track hopefully to do the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote crate with this build. I have a couple sources, inside and outside of Ford Performance, who are saying "second quarter 2018." Appears they have it in their lab and in work at this time. I do want the complete drivetrain fairly early in the build so I can mock up everything that goes around it. Just so many differences compared to previous Roadster builds that I'm not comfortable forging ahead too far without the engine and trans sitting there. That timing should work but we'll see. If it gets delayed and I'm ready, I wouldn't have a problem changing to the Gen 2 Coyote. But I'd really like to try the new one if possible. We'll see.

One final thing. These past weeks have been dominated mainly by my wife undergoing left hip replacement surgery. This has been brewing for a long time. Thanks to family genes and the nasty arthritis she inherited. She’s 4 weeks in as of today, and is doing fantastic. Down to just a couple Tylenol a day and mobility already way better than before. She has a ways to go yet, but so thankful for modern medicine and what they can do. I’ve had to do most of the shopping, cooking, cleaning, etc. but no big deal. Don’t know how we could have done it if I wasn’t retired though.

Enough rambling. Probably won’t be another update for a while. Until then, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.

Vette1972

12-12-2017, 11:15 AM

Nice detailed update on your process. For those of us still planning, this is such a great resource as to why you build the way you do. It helps with the decision on which parts will offer the best bang for the buck. Thanks and will follow along as you work on the Coupe.

Merry Christmas!
Len

Boydster

12-12-2017, 02:10 PM

Just like everyone else, I'm looking forward to seeing this machine come together. Really look forward to seeing what you do with the interior.

Glad your wife is doing better. That hip arthritis can be unreal...

carlewms

12-12-2017, 07:40 PM

Paul,

Thanks for the detailed update and best wishes for your wife's continued speedy recovery.

Merry Christmand and Happy New Year,

Carl

JRL16

12-13-2017, 04:51 AM

Nice update Paul. It seems like money fixes just about everything on these cars. At least that’s the way my roadster build works. Give my best to your wife. Glad she’s doing well. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

qwezxc12

12-13-2017, 12:06 PM

...Placed the order for the 3.73 IRS Torsen diff and knuckles/hubs from the place that had the best price, which turned out was the same place I bought the Coyote and related for #8674. They contacted me almost immediately and told me that Ford Performance has discontinued the M-4001-88373T diff and they couldn’t get one for me since they drop ship from Ford Performance directly. Good grief! I started shopping around, and found the same story from multiple suppliers..

I had the same situation for my Coupe parts. I ordered the 3.73 T-2R Torsen IRS center section and knuckles/hubs from Don Wood Ford Racing Parts in Nov. I got the knuckles, but kept getting strung along on the center section. Got a call Monday that Ford discontinued it, followed my a flurry of calls made to find anyone who actually had one on the shelf. Got one from Summit for a little more $$ and it arrived this morning (free freight!)

FYI to anyone else wanting a new Torsen center section: Summit had three on the shelf Monday when I ordered mine.... two (or less) left now.

I'm also using the close-ratio T-56 Magnum, but I'm swapping the rear gears from 3.73 to 3.31 - in my heavier 1987 mustang, 1st and 2nd had to be used very gently to have any traction with 490rwhp, even with a Griggs rear torque-arm suspension. I'm expecting even with the lower ratio 3.31 ring (12.7% reduction), the difference in the weight of the car (~2500lbs vs. 3300lbs, ~32% reduction) will make for ludicrous acceleration.

edwardb

12-13-2017, 12:41 PM

I had the same situation for my Coupe parts. I ordered the 3.73 T-2R Torsen IRS center section and knuckles/hubs from Don Wood Ford Racing Parts in Nov. I got the knuckles, but kept getting strung along on the center section. Got a call Monday that Ford discontinued it, followed my a flurry of calls made to find anyone who actually had one on the shelf. Got one from Summit for a little more $$ and it arrived this morning (free freight!)

FYI to anyone else wanting a new Torsen center section: Summit had three on the shelf Monday when I ordered mine.... two (or less) left now.

I'm also using the close-ratio T-56 Magnum, but I'm swapping the rear gears from 3.73 to 3.31 - in my heavier 1987 mustang, 1st and 2nd had to be used very gently to have any traction with 490rwhp, even with a Griggs rear torque-arm suspension. I'm expecting even with the lower ratio 3.31 ring (12.7% reduction), the difference in the weight of the car (~2500lbs vs. 3300lbs, ~32% reduction) will make for ludicrous acceleration.

Nearly exact same story as mine. Summit has one less now. It's supposed to be here tomorrow. :rolleyes:

For my setup, I'm expecting the 3.73 gearing to be OK with the planned Coyote engine. I've driven Roadster #8674 with a TKO and 3.55 gearing with the Coyote for a season, and find the gearing nearly ideal and I'm really happy with it. Yes, with street performance tires, traction can be challenging in the lower gears. But I'm not going to change anything. At least not initially. The planned T-56 and 3.73 gearing I'm planning for this build should be very similar to the Roadster. What's especially nice is the closer ratios in the upper gears. These are calculations at 6,000 for reference.

Calculations for TKO-600 and 3.55 diff in Roadster #8674
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.87 1st 44.68
1.89 2nd 67.84
1.28 3rd 100.17
1.00 4th 128.22
.64 5th 200.34
RPM @ 70 mph in 5th 2100

Calculations for T-56 Magnum TUET11010 and 3.73 diff in Coupe #59
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.66 1st 45.88
1.78 2nd 68.56
1.30 3rd 93.87
1.00 4th 122.03
.80 5th 152.54
.63 6th 193.7
RPM @ 70 mph in 6th 2150

Dlirium

12-13-2017, 04:27 PM

edwardb

12-13-2017, 05:14 PM

So I'm planning on the same T-56 / Coyote combo and ordered this:

16126 - 2015 Mustang IRS Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs +$1,400.00

I had *assumed* that included everything i needed - is there a reason this won't work and folks are using the Torsen? Do i need to jump on this Summit deal right away??

Appreciate any help!!

Yes, that's everything you need. Lots of people get the whole package from Factory Five like you did. With the IRS rear suspension option plus the 2015 Mustang IRS center section, spindles, and hubs, that's technically everything for the IRS. All you need to add is brakes, which you would have to anyway.

The rest of the story is the center section comes in a number of versions. Some are iron case. Some aluminum. There are multiple ratios. 3.15, 3.31, 3.55 and 3.73. All but the 3.73 are a clutch type limited slip. The Torsen uses gears instead of clutch plates. They're roughly twice the price. The 3.73 Torsen setup is considered a higher performance option for the Mustang as part of one of their Performance Packs. How much it helps in these builds is open to some debate, how the car is used, etc. I wouldn't panic if I were you. Nearly every build (including mine to date) use the Ford traction lock clutch setup and it works fine. I would want to know which diff Factory Five is providing to you and then you need to make sure that's OK for your build. My guess is they're providing the 3.55. It's probably the most common. Run the numbers in a calculator (like this one http://www.tremec.com/calculadora.php) and confirm you're OK with it.

Like I said, I want to use 3.73 gearing for my build so ended up with the Torsen setup by default. Which is OK since I've wanted to try it. I could have bought a lower priced non-Torsen setup and changed to 3.73 gears. But really didn't want to open and change a brand new diff. I've done it before. Not terrible, but prefer not to.

GoDadGo

12-13-2017, 08:02 PM

This is exactly why I love 6-speed transmissions with at least a 3.73 out back.
With that being said; You are going to love having that extra overdrive.

Calculations for T-56 Magnum TUET11010 and 3.73 diff in Coupe #59
Engine RPM = 6000, Tire diameter = 25.5
2.66 1st 45.88
1.78 2nd 68.56
1.30 3rd 93.87
1.00 4th 122.03
.80 5th 152.54
.63 6th 193.7
RPM @ 70 mph in 6th 2150

GoDadGo ZF-Trans Ratios:
ZF S6-40 General Specifications:
Gear ratios - 1st-2.68, 2nd-1.80, 3rd-1.29, 4th-1.0, 5th-0.75, 6th-0.50, Reverse-2.50
Description - 6 Speed 95 mm Fully Synchronized
Weight (w/shifter) 145 lbs

Wylie Coyote

12-14-2017, 12:12 AM

GoDadGo ZF-Trans Ratios:
ZF S6-40 General Specifications:
Gear ratios - 1st-2.68, 2nd-1.80, 3rd-1.29, 4th-1.0, 5th-0.75, 6th-0.50, Reverse-2.50
Description - 6 Speed 95 mm Fully Synchronized
Weight (w/shifter) 145 lbs

The proof is in the track times. It'll never go that fast in the trailer. Sonrie mi amigo

Jonince1960

12-14-2017, 07:23 AM

edwardb

12-14-2017, 08:52 AM

EdwardB...AKA Paul............Having read both your other build threads and been consumed by your attention to detail in your 20th Anniversary build #8674 i am delighted to be in at the beginning for your Type 65 build thread ! Armchair, slippers and Notebook at the ready. Hoping you are going OLED all the way on this one.

Thanks. Yes, the plan is for this build to be all LED as well. Factory Five gives a nice head start with the Gen 3 Coupe by providing LED fixtures for the front running and turn signal lights (the two lights in the headlight area) and the four rear running/turn/stop lights.

GoDadGo

12-14-2017, 09:42 PM

The proof is in the track times. It'll never go that fast in the trailer. Sonrie mi amigo

The point that you are missing is having real efficiency and drivability with no bogging or lugging between 4th and 5th like most experience with the TKO street units.

GoDadGo

12-15-2017, 08:55 PM

edwardb

12-15-2017, 11:52 PM

Steve's Two Stupid Questions For This Evening:

1. How long is the driveshaft for the T-56 Transmission with IRS setup?
2. Would it be possible to set up the new couple with the T-56 transmission and the solid 3 link axle?

1. This is what FF lists on my sales order, specific to my planned Coyote, T56 and 2015+ IRS: 60375 - 31 SPLINE 2015 IRS 9.75" DRIVESHAFT, 3" CHROMOLY TUBE, COYOTE w/6spd MAGNUM, GEN 3 COUPE, BLACK, 1330 U-JOINTS, 2-3-6041X YOKE, 2-2-489. Of course I'm hoping it will fit properly. It will be quite a while before I know for sure.

2. Short answer is I don't know. The Coupe has a 5-inch longer wheelbase than the Roadster. But the engine is set back some compared to the Roadster. There isn't 5-inches more room available. As a comparison, my #8674 Anniversary Roadster has a Coyote, TKO600, and 2015+ IRS. It uses a 10.625" driveshaft. So comparing the two: TKO600 = 31 inches long. T56 = 33.6 inches long. 2.6 inches longer. Based on the different driveshaft lengths, that would suggest there's about 1-3/4 inches of additional length available in the Coupe. Note that's completely unverified. Just backing into the numbers based on data I could find. Is that enough to get a T56 in with a 3-link? I don't know.

GoDadGo

12-16-2017, 07:03 AM

Thanks for the reply and I'll be looking and lurking at your latest build thread as it progresses.
If I do anything, meaning building a Type-65, it will likely be in about 5 years when I turn the Big-60.

Jim1855

12-16-2017, 10:03 AM

cgundermann

12-16-2017, 10:09 AM

The video from Tilton shows the hydraulic TOB I'm considering. Interestingly, the installation is an FF Roadster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2JAoHhy0A

Very, very cool and appears nicely well engineered.

Just got caught up in your build Paul, really look forward to seeing you perfect this...

Chris

edwardb

12-16-2017, 11:17 AM

A friend that is building a coupe had to change a few things.

IRS, 351 Windsor @ 427, T56 Magnum (not XL), Quicktime bellhousing. He's moving the engine forward about 2 inches and down about an inch. The T56 hit chassis steel and the transmission mount didn't fit as described in the manual. The shift tower hit trans tunnel steel. The end result is a complete new engine mount system and modified trans mount. Will also need to modify diagonal bracing in front of the oil pan for clearance even when using a rear sump pan but this is due to the engine position change.

We fit my spare block and his driveline components using the Energy engine & trans mounts. This provided a real installation test. The combination actually fits well once moved forward. Custom headers will be fabricated.

There was also a pinion angle issue that was mostly corrected with the changes. As installed the diff center section was slightly rotated down at the input shaft. This was probably due to the diff support structure locations not being correct and 1 of the 4 diff bolts not in-line, a modified off-set bushing was machined.

If the project includes a T56 I'd do whatever engine & trans test fitting you can once the diff assembly is installed. It will be a lot easier to correct early. The Coyote installation may be different enough that there isn't any interference.

On gearing: There is NO correct answer, only a solution that works with your selected engine power curve and then meets your needs, expectations and driving style.
On wheelbase: It's actually 95" according to FFR specs, not 96". Sorry not trying to be a PITA, that just happens naturally.

Jim

Hi Jim. Interesting comments. Also planning the same T56 Magnum. Not the XL. Obviously I have no way to know what will happen with mine until I get to that point. Probably some months (at least) depending on timing for the engine and which Coyote I end up using. I'm surprised about the fitment issues you're describing, as the 302/351/T56 combination is listed on the Gen 3 order sheet, so would seem it's a supported configuration. Without cutting and welding metal. Was there every any discussion with Factory Five about it? The three Gen 3 builds (that I know about anyway) from Factory Five were all Coyote builds, and at least one with the T56. So I'm hoping this is not an issue for my build. I do know for certain that a Coyote is shorter than the 302/351 block, at least in relation to where it sits. For the Roadster, they supply an adapter plate because the transmission mount doesn't reach the standard mounting location on the transmission A-frame. I just did a side-by-side comparison of my #7750 build (302 DART block) and #8674 (Coyote), both with TKO's. The transmission is 1-1/2 to 2 inches forward with the Coyote compared to the SBF. I will be fitting the engine/trans early in this build, before panels are permanently mounted, wiring/brake/fuel run, etc.

Thanks for the correction on the wheelbase. 96 was the number in my mind, so didn't look it up. Thanks for pointing it out. I fixed my post. :o

Jim1855

12-16-2017, 12:05 PM

Paul,

If the Coyote does sit 1-2 inches forward I would think that the interference issues disappear, that's all the farther Daryl is moving the Windsor forward.

If I can assist with install I'd certainly be pleased to do so.

And no, he didn't call FFR on the engine/trans location or the diff assembly installation problem. He just fixes and changes. Or from a different viewpoint, what would they have done? The only solution would have been a new chassis and redesigned mounts, just didn't see that happening.

Jim

Jkviper

12-19-2017, 11:05 AM

Following along, after looking at kit car mags since I was a kid I am considering giving it a try and the 65 Coupe would be my choice, Looking forward to seeing your progress.

edwardb

12-19-2017, 12:58 PM

Yesterday I received four boxes from Factory Five. Down to 16 backordered items. Plus my three part issues (2 missing, 1 defective) were resolved. So making progress. But unfortunately all the IRS arms are still on the list, so won’t be making too much headway there. I did get the front LCA’s, so I have everything on hand to complete the front suspension less sway bar. Also yesterday I received my 3.73 Torsen differential. Had to come cross country and then got hung up in Chicago due to weather. But it arrived late last night. The one I had for #8674 was in good shape (zero miles take out) but wasn’t new in box like this one. Nice. But you do pay for it…

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77932&d=1513702118

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77933&d=1513702144

I’ll be painting the case with POR15 and the rear cover with some Duplicolor clear, like before. I ordered the little fitting that goes into the vent because all the new ones I heard about didn’t have it. Mine didn’t either out of the box, but there was one in a bag taped inside the box. I haven’t weighed this thing yet, but it’s a chunk. Shipping weight in a box and strapped to a skid was 130 lbs. I’m sure it’s right around 100 lbs, similar to the iron case 3.55 that’s in #8674.

I’ve been working on the hubs and spindles getting them ready to install. They were also new in box, so clean and fresh. First thing was to remove the 14mm x 1.5 metric studs and replace with the kit supplied 1/2" x 20 studs. That makes the rear studs match the front hub studs plus the FF Halibrand wheel lug nuts. The instructions say to pound out the old studs with a hammer. I’m not big on beating on things with a hammer, even though the hubs should be able to take it. Instead I cobbled up a piece from a 3-inch piece of black pipe and pressed them out using my bench vise. Less stressful for me plus the hubs. The cuts in the pipe allow it to clear and works pretty well. Getting a little beat up after two sets though.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77934&d=1513702158

I put the new studs back in using a pneumatic impact wrench, a stack of three hardened washers, and a hardened 1/2" x 20 nut. I smear grease on the washers and the nut and they pull in OK after some chugging by the wrench. I’ve suggested this method to others and they also had success. Don’t use the lug nuts supplied with the wheel for this though. They’ll get beat up. Then I put some POR15 on the hubs. Certainly not necessary, but just prefer the look over the eventually rusty finish.

Next up I cut the knuckles as shown in the instructions. I do leave a little more meat than what the instructions show. There’s no problem with clearance. I cut them on my band saw and then cleaned the ends on the stationary disk sander. Then drilled out the holes to 5/8-inch also as shown in the instructions. I fixtured the knuckles so they were held firmly and the hole exactly perpendicular to the drill bit. I used a step bit first as deep as I could go. That made the top part of the hole 5/8-inch and nice taper the rest of the way. The regular drill bit then finished the job smoothly without grabbing. Finally, I made some small covers out of aluminum sheet for the hole where the ABS sensors are mounted. No ABS for this build, and not sure that open hole directly into the bearings would be a good thing. Used some 1/4" x 20 machine screws to hold the covers.

Like I did with #8674, I spend a little time with the knuckles cleaning up the parting lines in the castings. Combination of files, Dremel, sandpaper, etc. Again, certainly not necessary, but the kind of thing I enjoy doing. Strange, I know. Then assembled the hubs to the knuckles, torquing the bolts to the prescribed 98 foot pounds. I’ll be finishing them off with POR15 over the rest. I saw another build with the knuckles painted black, and liked the look. Matches the rest of the powder coated suspension parts.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77935&d=1513702171

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77936&d=1513702180

While I had the POR15 going, also put some on the front hubs. After removing the ABS tone rings. Same reasons. Prefer the more finished look plus they’ll get rusty if not finished. One thing to think about with the Coupe – with the tip front open, the entire front suspension is exposed.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77937&d=1513702299

Next up will be to assemble the front suspension and brakes. Then hopefully will have the rest of the IRS parts to do the same for the rear suspension.

Vette1972

12-19-2017, 01:05 PM

edwardb

12-19-2017, 01:43 PM

Edwardb,

How complete do you feel the new Coupe manual is? Does it need more info based on the Gen 3 version of the car? i'm not ready to build yet but thought of getting the PDF version to study.

Thanks,
Len

IMO the Gen 3 Coupe manual is a work in progress. But there is still a ton of information there (552 pages worth) and easily worth the $10 for the download. Lots of detail on the chassis assembly, body installation, etc. Little light still on the electrical side, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Also talks quite a bit of a donor build, and not sure how many of those will really happen with this kit. But you would learn a lot about the build. Even though I received a hard copy with my build, I paid for the download to have an electronic version. I keep it on my laptop so it's easily available plus I like how I can search.

q4stix

12-19-2017, 02:01 PM

edwardb

12-19-2017, 02:40 PM

Just a thought if you haven't already started: instead of doing POR15 on the differential like you did previously and I followed along with, why not just clear the whole thing since it's all new? Just thinking out loud, but if mine would have come that way, clear is exactly what I'd do to keep the new, pristine look that no one else will have.

Also, any chance I can pay you to ship those blue axle plugs out my way when you're done with them and have the rear suspension built? Mine will be a long time in the making and it came filled with fluid so I get the lovely smell of gear oil and friction modifier in my garage

There are others building with new too, so I'm not the only one. Clear would be OK. But I just prefer the gloss black. I pulled one of the plugs and took a whiff of the fluid. Don't smell the very distinctive friction modifier. But then I'm not sure what new diffs come with. I'm not even sure it's full. Others with new units also questioned whether they were actually filled. Several just drained it and re-filled with the fluids Ford specifies. Likely I will do the same. Not sure why the Torsen would need the friction modifier, but Ford still calls it out on this one, so I'll do it. I'd prefer to keep the blue plugs. Never know for future builds. On #8674, I cleaned the edges and put some tape over them. Gorilla Tape (Home Depot, etc.) works great. They stayed sealed until I installed the axles.

Vette1972

12-19-2017, 02:53 PM

IMO the Gen 3 Coupe manual is a work in progress. But there is still a ton of information there (552 pages worth) and easily worth the $10 for the download. Lots of detail on the chassis assembly, body installation, etc. Little light still on the electrical side, as I mentioned in one of my posts. Also talks quite a bit of a donor build, and not sure how many of those will really happen with this kit. But you would learn a lot about the build. Even though I received a hard copy with my build, I paid for the download to have an electronic version. I keep it on my laptop so it's easily available plus I like how can search.

Thanks for the info. I will get the PDF and look at in detail. Really looking forward to following your build. The detail you offer for those to come behind you is invaluable.

Merry Christmas!!

edwardb

12-22-2017, 09:15 PM

The front suspension is completely assembled except for the sway bar. Missing the sway bar bushings so can’t finish it yet. Everything else is done. The front suspension uses all the same components as the Roadster, so nothing too earthshaking here. Had to remove powder coat from holes, spread the tabs a bit on a couple, and adjust one of the holes just slightly on one LCA tab to get it to line up. Other than that, went together very normally and everything fit perfectly. I put grease into the LCA and UCA pivots before assembly. Confirms they are greased properly right from the start, plus makes them go together a little easier. I used a paint marker to indicate final torque completed as I went. For the upper ball joints, also put witness marks to monitor they aren’t moving.

As mentioned before, did use Howe Racing 22320S ball joints. Also switched the upper ball joint and tie rod ends to Energy Suspension boots. I used the Breeze 3-turn Unisteer power steering rack. Before putting in the coilovers, I propped the suspension up to approximate ride height and tried to get the alignment a little in the ball park. On the UCA, have the front adjuster out 2-3 times as much as the rear one for caster, used a level on the brake disks and adjusted to -.5 degrees camber, then used a laser pointer on the brake disks to get the toe relatively straight to the chassis. Probably won’t be all that close when it’s time for the real alignment. But hopefully not totally random. I don’t have the brakes completely assembled yet. I’ll do the safety wires and finalize everything at the same time as the rear brakes. From earlier today:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78116&d=1513992431

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78115&d=1513992421

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78114&d=1513992409

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78113&d=1513992393

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78118&d=1513992458

The last picture shows the Moog ES2150RL tie rod ends I’ve used on all my builds. They’re nice quality pieces, and I especially like how the threaded ends come through to the inside. Makes it real easy to confirm you have proper thread engagement. Plus eliminates having to trim the ends.

Several observations from the assembly specific to the Coupe. Factory Five provides two sets of holes for all the components including the steering rack. The lower holes for street use, the upper for racing use. I used all the lower holes except at the last minute noticed the instructions said to use the upper holes for the upper coilover mount if using the double action Koni’s like I have. Good thing I read the instructions. I changed the direction of the bolt installation for the front LCA mount and the steering rack. Installed like shown in the instructions would have made them difficult if not impossible to remove once the radiator is installed. On the Anniversary Roadster #8674 build, also with the Koni double action shocks, I had to trim where the shocks mount on the LCA to eliminate interference. Wasn’t necessary this time. FF changed the mount tabs so they no longer interfere. Continuous improvement! Way to go.

I also installed the steering column so I could center up the rack when installing and connecting the tie rod ends. Found out that I again had to mount the footbox steering shaft bearing on the inside of the footbox. Same as the Anniversary Roadster build, which had the same Breeze Unisteer power rack. Apparently that input shaft is slightly long. It’s not possible to get the steering shaft onto the rack input with the bearing on the outside of the footbox. Had to trim the bearing shells slightly along one edge, but other than that, no problem with it being inside. Another thing I noticed is Unisteer is now putting a groove around the entire diameter of the input shaft for the adapter set screw. So no matter where you orient it, the set screw drops into it. This is different than before (and most other racks) that just have a single cutout for the set screw. Then guys start wondering what to do when the steering wheel won't center with the rack.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78117&d=1513992440

Next up is to get the center section prepped and installed. Still don’t have IRS control arms, so won’t be able to do too much more there until they arrive. Hopefully soon. Plenty of other stuff to keep working on.

My son gave me this very cool 1:18 scale Daytona Coupe die-cast model for Christmas. Pretty well known model of the Coupe. I have the Cobra version already, so they’re a matched set. Well, except it's red. He said something about showing me how the Coupe needs to be blue. We’ll see.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78119&d=1513992527

wareaglescott

12-22-2017, 10:19 PM

Nice looking die cast! I have the same one sitting in my office. You can always take it apart and repaint to your desired color! Another project for your down time :D

Looking at how the steering shaft is routed do you anticipate having to swing it out of the way to get the motor in like you did on the MK4?

edwardb

12-22-2017, 11:30 PM

Looking at how the steering shaft is routed do you anticipate having to swing it out of the way to get the motor in like you did on the MK4?

Hard to say until I get to that point. Just looking at the two side-by-side, seem pretty similar. So I'm guessing it will be necessary. But no big deal.

GoDadGo

12-23-2017, 06:58 AM

edwardb

12-23-2017, 07:47 AM

Paul,

What's your impression of the Type-65 regarding kit quality and engineering compared to the improvements made the Roadsters that you've previously built?
Did the gang at Factory Five knock this one out of the park like they seemed to do when the MK-4 came on to the scene?
Just wanted to get your impression.
Merry Christmas!

Steve

Hey Steve. I have a long way to go, so obviously can't give a complete answer. But my impression since seeing the new Coupe for the first time and now having one in progress in my garage is overwhelmingly positive. There are a lot of similarities to the Roadster builds I've done. Like the suspension I'm working now. The brakes, fuel tank, wiring harness, etc. But there are certainly some pretty radical differences mainly with the new chassis space frame design. The chassis is modern, clean, and obviously very strong. (I've bumped my head on it now a couple of times and can say it didn't budge at all. :p) Watching other builds and now doing mine, I can see they are continuing to refine things. So it will only get better. Dave Smith mentions in one of his videos that this design shows how Factory Five has matured. The people, use of computer modeling, manufacturing methods, etc. I would have to say I see that. So far a big thumbs up.

GoDadGo

12-23-2017, 08:17 AM

Thanks for your thoughts!

The 1st Factory Five that I got to ride in and drive (Donor Built MK-3 302 SBF & Old Style IRS) was a nice car, but not refined.
The 2nd Factory Five that I got to ride in and drive (Complete Kit MK-4, Super Charged Cobra Modular Motor & 3-Link) was light years ahead of the 1st.
My pal Jerry has a 1st Gen Type 65 (Square X-Bar Front / 392 SBF & 3-Link) and it is very nice so I'm thinking that the 3rd Gen has got to be head and shoulders above the earlier models.

Thanks Again & I'll Be Watching Your Latest Build!

Merry Christmas!

Garry Bopp

12-23-2017, 09:55 AM

Steve,

My coupe was a Gen 1 (#031) with IRS, as were all the early coupes. It drove and handled beautifully. A friend has a lovely Superformance roadster that left him stranded during a mountain cruise (bad clutch master cylinder). We loaded up his car in my trailer and I hauled it home for him, with him following me ... with him driving my coupe. He REALLY liked it!

Garry

edwardb

12-27-2017, 05:24 PM

Pretty minor update. But it's been below zero outside so I've been working in the basement instead of heating the garage. Today I finished prepping the IRS components. Now I just need my backordered control arms so I can get this all assembled onto the chassis. The first pic is a little silly, but I'll post it anyway. I hung parts in one end of the utility room in our basement to get them finished and let them dry. Why hang laundry when you can hang car parts? For the CV axles and driveshaft I put some Duplicolor DE1636 Engine Clear on the exposed metal parts so they don't get surface rust. I'm silly about things like that I guess. Same clear on the rear cover and pinion flange of the center section. I've used that spray for several builds and it seems to hold up really well. I did have things masked off before spraying, so didn't get any clear on the boots, mating metal parts, etc.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78243&d=1514411697

Finished getting the center section prepped and ready. Drilled out the front ears to 5/8-inch per the instructions. That's probably only 1/16-inch or so bigger than it already is, so the drill bit wants to grab like crazy. I drilled as far as I could with a step drill and that helped. Then finished the rest with a regular drill. On the Roadster build, I used my pretty strong 1/2-inch corded drill. Man when that grabbed it about broke my wrists. So this time used an old 12-volt battery powered drill. Not very powerful, so rather than grab it would just stall. Without hurting me. Got them both drilled out and used the spinning bit to make the holes slightly oversized. The alignment to the chassis is really tight and I'm hoping this bit of clearance will make it a little easier to install.

I also drained the fluid. There are no instructions in the box and no indication of what fluid or how much it came with when shipped. So I drained it into a catch pan and then measured the amount. 1.6 quarts or a little over 1.5 liters. Exactly how much it's supposed to have when full. Once drained, I could smell the distinctive odor of the friction modifier. So bottom line it was probably good to go. Unfortunately, I didn't think that was going to be the case. It just didn't seem like there was much in it. So didn't drain it into clean containers. Now I'll need to replace. About $50 worth of fluids there. 75W-85 synthetic gear lube is specified along with XL-3 friction modifier. Not sure why they list friction modifier for the Torsen center section, but they do. How much fluid is shipped in these has been asked about on the forum before, so thought I would provide my observation for those that buy the NIB Ford IRS center sections.

Anyway, got the clear on as mentioned and then painted the iron case with POR15. That stuff is nice. Looks almost like powder coat. I also did the knuckles as I mentioned I was planning to do in a previous update. Also the sway bar mounts. In a day or two when this all sets up a little more, I'll get the center section into the chassis. I could use a good workout.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78244&d=1514411707

The e-brake handle parts are also slightly visible on the shelf setting up. Painted those with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black Satin Aerosol, another product I really like. I have some more smaller projects I can work on. But hopefully the FedEx parts truck will be arriving any day now.

progmgr1

12-28-2017, 06:44 PM

In a day or two when this all sets up a little more, I'll get the center section into the chassis. I could use a good workout.

I was able to install the IRS center section in my '33 without too much effort by using my engine hoist and a strap. It was just a matter of lifting the diff pointed up, then tipping it over with one hand while pumping the hoist lever with the other. It took me a couple of passes to refine the technique, but ended up going pretty easy. No broken knuckles and minimal cursing.
Keith

78274

edwardb

12-28-2017, 08:25 PM

I was able to install the IRS center section in my '33 without too much effort by using my engine hoist and a strap. It was just a matter of lifting the diff pointed up, then tipping it over with one hand while pumping the hoist lever with the other. It took me a couple of passes to refine the technique, but ended up going pretty easy. No broken knuckles and minimal cursing.
Keith

78274

LOL. That's almost exactly how I put the center section in my #8674 Roadster build a couple years ago. I may end up doing this one the same way. But first I'm going to try using my new lift and reverse the process, e.g. move the chassis onto a stationary center section. My needing a workout comment was mainly tongue in cheek. There's some physical effort, but it's not too bad. No way my back would tolerate me trying to lift that thing by myself.

edwardb

12-29-2017, 07:37 PM

Today I was able to get the IRS center section installed into the chassis. Rather than using the shop crane and lift straps like the last time, I decided to try using my new lift to lower the chassis onto the diff. So piled a bunch of moving blankets, towels, etc. onto a cart and gave it a shot. Lowering the lift little-by-little as it went into position. Worked pretty well. I still found it necessary to hold the nose up as I was getting into the final position, so used a lifting strap on the Coupe’s built-in lift location (roll bar cage). Wouldn’t have been necessary with a helper. But by myself probably couldn’t have gotten it in without the added assist. Plus I was trying not to beat up my paint too much. Even though the chassis is very different than the Roadster, the installation is very similar. You need to point it up into the opening and get it into position with the center section front mounts above the chassis mount bushings. Then lift the rear up, get those bolts started, and drop (push, pull, tug, pry, etc.) the front down to the bushings and put those bolts in. Sounds easy enough, but once again found it was very tight. Eventually everything lined up OK, bolts went in with the help of the drift pins I made for the last build, and it’s all torqued down. Very happy to have that chunk where it belongs.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78316&d=1514591091

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78317&d=1514591103

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78319&d=1514591123

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78318&d=1514591114

Couple other things I’ve been working on. Spent yesterday assembling the hats and rotors for the Wilwood brakes, then completing the safety wiring. Torqued the 12 bolts in each to the specified 155 inch/lbs and used a little red Loctite. I’m careful to not go overboard with that stuff. I’m far from an expert doing safety wires. This is only my second time. The first being the same Wilwoods on #8674. The location of the bolts is not very friendly to thread the .032 lock wire. The wire tends to catch in the edges of the holes which is easy to do since the bolt heads are next to and below the rotor. I tried something I read about in another build thread. I very lightly chamfered the four small safety wire holes in each mounting screw. I used a 3/32-inch drill in my drill press and just touched the edge on each. I think it made the wire a little easier to thread. But it's still a little tedious. Four completed rotor assemblies:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78320&d=1514591193

I like using a fan shroud on the radiator. I saw in Mike Everson’s Gen 3 Coupe build thread that he used a fan shroud and confirmed that it fits OK. So I got the one that Breeze provides. http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=1117. First thing up was to install four 10-32 nutserts for the fan mounting. I found out my fan tunnel sheet metal is different than Mikes, but it still fits OK. I checked with Factory Five, and they made a couple changes. I’m still waiting for my radiator mounting bracket. So will finalize this assembly once it’s received.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78321&d=1514591225

Also got the e-brake handle assembled and installed. This is the in-house designed and built handle Factory Five has been using for several years now instead of the previous Mustang handle. I have one in #8674, and it seems to work fine. I do like to make a couple minor changes though. I swapped the provided nylon bushings for bronze oilite bushings. Seems more robust to me, but then maybe that’s a little old school. I also used a 10-32 bolt instead of the provided slotted spring pin for the pawl pivot. Again, just personal preference. I also added a couple washers on each of the pawl piece. Keeps it centered a little better. The Gen 3 Coupe has the e-brake on the tunnel. A common mod for Roadsters. It’s very nicely executed with a mounting bracket for the e-brake handle. The usual angled mounting brackets for the handle aren’t used. The cable routing is along the top of the tunnel and then around to the rear brakes. Direct and simple. I like it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78323&d=1514593989

Received word that IRS control arms are out for powder coat, and the powder coater is down for the holidays. So I’m probably at least a week away from getting them. I’ll keep plugging away on smaller stuff.

qwezxc12

12-29-2017, 10:23 PM

Looking good! I'm following your progress closely...

Based on your previous posts, I plan to give the POR-15 a try on the IRS center section and hubs - it looks like good stuff. I bought the starter pack to try it out.
I will be using C-series Cerakote on all the exposed aluminum pieces (knuckles, body panels, etc).

Guess it'll be hit or miss whether the IRS arms are out from powder-coat by next Saturday when I'm at FFR... here's hoping.

One Q: are you using a PS pump or electric-over-hydraulic for your rack?

edwardb

12-30-2017, 12:57 AM

Automan

12-30-2017, 01:07 PM

Hey, Did you get your side pipes with your order? My Gen 3 #50 is still on backorder.

thanks

edwardb

12-30-2017, 02:44 PM

Hey, Did you get your side pipes with your order? My Gen 3 #50 is still on backorder.

thanks

Nope, no side pipes here. No specific promise date from Factory Five when I checked on all my parts earlier this week. I'm a couple months at least from that being a limiter.

edwardb

01-03-2018, 07:27 PM

Been busy with New Year’s activities plus it’s been just crazy cold. But got a couple things done.

First was the gas tank. Prepped the tank by flattening out the edges where they’re bent for the straps when installed in a Mustang. Many miss this line in the manual. Especially important for the new Coupe. More later.

I’m using the Pro-M Racing High Flow Fuel Pump Hanger for 1986 – 1997 Mustangs. It has full 3/8-inch line for both the feed and return lines, 6AN fittings the fuel line connections, and the return tube goes to the bottom of the tank. I used this same hangar on #8674 and it’s a very nice quality piece. Their website has an interesting video that shows it in action. Not cheap, but the only hangar I know about with these features. It does require a couple of reliefs to be cut into the opening in the tank so it can go in and out. But it’s clearly explained in their instructions. I used a Dremel with a shop vac sucking up as many chips as I could while trimming. Then using the shop vac and compressed air made sure the tank was 100% clean afterwards. I haven’t purchased the actual pump motor yet. Probably will be a Walbro GSS340 255LPH pump, also the same as #8674. But waiting until the engine selection is finalized and confirm that’s the right one. So I just put the hangar in without the pump for now.

Then added the sender from the kit, after checking it electrically, installed with the O-ring as the FF instructions state but also added a little Permatex Form-A-Gasket sealant. I’m using the Breeze big bore vent-check valve, as in previous builds, and also used a genuine Motorcraft part for the filler neck to tank seal. It’s Ford part number F4ZZ-9072-DA. Both are upgrades from the kit provided parts. Maybe not required, but easy to do now compared to later and stuff I've had good experience with.

Then put the tank into the chassis. This is where the Coupe is a little different than the Roadster. The Roadster has four plastic bumpers that the tank is held against with the straps. The Coupe only has the front pair. The rear lip of the tank, and also some on each end, rest directly on chassis tubes that surround the tank area. Makes a very solid mounting which I really like. I am concerned though about the metal-to-metal contact. There is a roll of 1/16 x 1 inch self-adhesive neoprene type cushioning material in the kit. But I can’t find anything about it in the manual. For the tank installation itself, nothing is mentioned about any cushioning other than the bumpers. Maybe that material is supposed to used for the tank, but I don't know. I just have the tank in temporarily right now, and will have it back out to install the pump and finalize everything. I’ll add some cushioning around the perimeter at that time. I’m actually thinking 1/8 inch thick would be a little better. Easy get from McMaster if necessary.

I did notice one small issue. With the tank in place, the normal location for the filler neck retainer is covered up by the chassis tubes the tank is resting on. My first thought is to attach the retainer to the chassis tube, probably on the outside edge, instead of the tank lip. We'll see when I actually install the filler neck later in the build.

With the tank in place, I’m looking at a design for a storage bin over the lower section of the tank like I and many others do on the Roadster. First pass thinking of 23 wide x 16 long x 5-1/2 deep. I’m also planning a folding door over the top since it’s open under the hatch glass. For appearance and also for security. All easy enough to fab, bend and rivet. There will be no cutting of chassis tubing like some do with this mod on the Roadster. The Coupe tubes in this area are bigger and much heavier gauge. Obviously major structural elements, and I’m not touching them. The bin will fit around them, same as I did on #8674. It’s still very functional.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78648&d=1515021660

The tape marks are where I'm planning the storage bin. Then 16 inches forward from there. Then a 2-piece carpeted door that folds forward. Similar to what Dark Water used to provide.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78649&d=1515021669

Today I starting mocking up and thinking about how I want to do the interior and specifically the dash. I’m going to stick with the stock layout for the most part, but have a number of ideas on how I’m going to do it. I’ll share as I finalize more. I put the Speedhut gauges in the dash panel. Put some power to all and they appear to be working. Light up, needles swing, GPS acquires, etc. I've been looking at what seats I want to use. Right now seriously considering the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X. Still more research to do though. I have the standard low back Roadster seats that came with the kit as placeholders right now. But I've never planned to use them permanently.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78646&d=1515021607

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78647&d=1515021623

This planning and scheming part I especially enjoy.

Dlirium

01-03-2018, 08:04 PM

When I helped my buddy build his Roadster, behind-dash space was at a real premium. How does the space on the Coupe compare?

edwardb

01-03-2018, 08:18 PM

When I helped my buddy build his Roadster, behind-dash space was at a real premium. How does the space on the Coupe compare?

There is considerably more space than a Roadster. But since many Coupe builds include heat and A/C (as this one will) that space gets used up pretty quickly. Ask me again later this year. :D

Erik W. Treves

01-04-2018, 01:20 AM

FWIW... I put the dash OVER the body and pinched in with the windshield... I had to trim the corners some to get the aluminum to lay flat... both the FFR cars I have seen have like your picture and you can see that entire edge after the glass installed...

mine you can't there is no body seen through the windshield...

here is a pic of it early on... you can see where the sharpie is... this is where the windshield sits and the aluminum (under all those clamps) sits on top... it make the dash slant up slightly but you can't really tell.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66248&d=1491866835

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76390&d=1509808966

edwardb

01-04-2018, 11:41 AM

FWIW... I put the dash OVER the body and pinched in with the windshield... I had to trim the corners some to get the aluminum to lay flat... both the FFR cars I have seen have like your picture and you can see that entire edge after the glass installed...

mine you can't there is no body seen through the windshield...

Thanks for the hint and pictures. I will definitely look at that. I was planning to cut the fiberglass edge back some -- at least even it up -- but putting the dash aluminum over is another option. I'm assuming you didn't use the bulb seal along the windshield edge of the dash aluminum like shown in the manual. Frankly, even if the dash aluminum is put under the body, I don't see how there's room for bulb seal on the dash aluminum. Just looking at what I have now, seems the bulb seal on the firewall would directly interfere.

Erik W. Treves

01-04-2018, 12:02 PM

No bulb seal... added foam padding to the top of the dash only and the wrapped it in vinyl... with that it doesnt vibrate and seals up fine with added bonus is that the dash is completely removable buy just removing the screws at the front of the dash... nice and easy

edwardb

01-11-2018, 04:05 PM

I was asked on the other forum about the view of instruments through the steering wheel while sitting in the seat, so thought I would post the response here as well. I'm very early in mocking things up. Don't even have seats yet so can't confirm 100% this is the view from sitting in the seat. But I think it's close. Tach and speedo are in good shape even with the thicker steering wheel. The smaller gauges not as good. When things get more finalized, I may put them in different holes so that the most important ones (e.g. oil pressure, water temp) have the best view. But I think it's going to be OK. The scribbling on the dash of other stuff is very preliminary. Looking at various options right now.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79098&d=1515703332

Working on lots of little stuff, but nothing significant to post regarding overall progress. Today I'm re-doing the rear harness. Making it fit the layout of the Coupe a little better plus adding some wires for additions I'm making.

Vette1972

01-11-2018, 06:29 PM

Edwardb.

With the progress you are making, the two year window seems to be much shorter. Great picture of dash layout. Enjoy watching, Thanks!

Len

cgundermann

01-11-2018, 07:43 PM

Your humming along Paul; looking good!

Chris

edwardb

01-12-2018, 10:21 AM

Edwardb.

With the progress you are making, the two year window seems to be much shorter. Great picture of dash layout. Enjoy watching, Thanks!

Len

Maybe. But still a ton of work ahead. I'm always a little conflicted over the build time. I really enjoy the researching, planning and building process. But also can't wait to experience the final product. :p

Jeff Kleiner

01-12-2018, 01:00 PM

edwardb

01-12-2018, 02:14 PM

Paul,
Any interest in a carbon fiber dash and trans tunnel? My buddy Chris did a bunch of CF roadster dashes and spoilers before moving a couple of years ago and is getting back in the game. If there is interest he wants to start doing a Coupe package as well which would be the dash, gauge hood and tunnel top. I'll put you in touch if you'd like to speak with him.

Jeff

Hey Jeff. Funny you ask. That's one of the ideas I have on my interior brainstorming list. The seats I'm hoping fit have some CF inserts, so I was thinking about CF elsewhere. Wasn't thinking the whole dash. Maybe just the panel where the instruments are held and then maybe something with the center console as well. But who knows. Just very vague ideas at this point. Sure, I'd be interested in pursing further. Thanks.

David Williamson

01-13-2018, 10:32 AM

I am interested in CF as well. Right now I am planning to use the 3M CF film and it looks good but not sure how it will last in high wear areas like the center console
David W

q4stix

01-13-2018, 05:57 PM

To also crash the thread but talk about the dash, I'd be interested in seeing what the carbon parts would cover and look like.

edwardb

01-13-2018, 06:31 PM

I have the information from Jeff, and will try to make contact next week. I'll update the build thread with whatever happens.

Jeff Kleiner

01-14-2018, 10:19 AM

PM with contact info sent to David and q4stix.

Jeff

nkw8181

01-16-2018, 04:45 PM

looking good!! glad to see another thread to follow

edwardb

01-16-2018, 05:31 PM

I’m still waiting for parts so I can finish the front and rear suspension and running out of smaller tasks. Parts are promised to ship this week. So, decided to dive into my electrical plan and wiring. Did a written plan of all my brainstorm ideas so far. Than started to work on some of the parts. I’m not going to finalize or attach anything until the suspension and engine/trans are in place. Just too many differences compared to the Roadster builds for me to know exactly where things should go. That includes wiring, fuel lines, and brake lines. First, the manual has limited detail. Second, and this is really different, it’s pretty much required to run the fuel and brake lines through the transmission tunnel. General forum advice on Roadsters, and I’ve said it myself several times, is to not put fuel and brake lines in that area due to moving parts, e.g. the spinning driveshaft. But with the new Coupe chassis design, it’s basically the only choice. Otherwise you’d have to go under the chassis at one or more points, making the fuel and/or brake lines the lowest points on the chassis which is completely unacceptable. But just theory until I can mock things up with the engine and trans in place.

For the electrical, as I mentioned in an earlier update, the Coupe build manual has basically nothing about the Ron Francis harness supplied with the complete kit. The Ron Francis manual mainly describes the Roadster. Some similarities, but also quite a few differences. The harness itself is used for the Roadster, Coupe, and Hot Rod. So it’s a bit generic and as I’m finding, needs a little tweaking to fit into the Coupe the way I want it.

First up is the fuse panel. Looking through several build threads, pictures on Factory Five’s website, and looking at the videos of builds including the Snap-On build, can see the fuse panel is typically mounted upside down on the left side in the general area of the driver’s left knee. Same as the Roadster. An aluminum panel is provided to mount the fuse panel, slightly different than the Roadster version I think. But unlike the Roadster that has two sides for mounting to the frame, the Coupe only one side. I decided this would be a little floppy for my liking, so fabbed and added some braces along the bottom sides, attached with solid aluminum rivets peened with a hammer. It will attach to the back of the frame rail in addition to along the bottom edge.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79370&d=1516128587

Determined the location and installed five 10-32 nutserts. Most of the frame components on the new Coupe are thicker tubing than the 3/4 and 1 inch thinwall tubing on the Roadster. Initially I was just going to tap 10-32 threads into the tubing. Probably would have been OK with at least 2-3 threads. May still end up doing that elsewhere. But since the fuse panel is a little heavy and don’t want it going anywhere, went ahead and added the nutserts. The added braces work well and make it solid enough. One thing that becomes really obvious with the pedal box and fuse panel in place is that the driver’s side footbox is going to be really jammed. It’s tight in the Roadster. But even tighter here.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79371&d=1516128597

After this picture was taken, made my first attempt at installing the fuse panel and the accompanying harness branches. Pretty much confirmed what I suspected. I’m going to need to unwrap a lot of the main harness and adjust some lengths and breakouts of some of the branches. Partly to make it neater plus maximize space since I will also have air ducting behind the dash. But also just to make things reach. I’m already a little concerned about the front harness. But I’m not going to tear into that any further because the other variable here is the Coyote harness. It also has to fit into the same space. I’ll wait until that’s on hand and put all the puzzle pieces together then.

I also spent some time on the rear harness. That I was confident enough about that I unwrapped it, made some changes, and wrapped it back up again. I’m going to install a single backup light under the rear running lights on the left side. So added wires to/from the area of the backup light switch on the T-56 I’m planning. Also with the T-56, it has a reverse lock-out solenoid. Lots of discussions about this on various forums. My plan is to use it exactly as designed with a module (there are several available) that senses speed and locks out reverse when the vehicle is in motion. So added wires to/from the area of the reverse lockout solenoid on the T-56. Finally, I adjusted the breakouts at the back and shortened the fuel pump and fuel level sender branches about 22 inches each because they’re way too long. All to best fit how I’m planning to route the rear harness along the right side of the transmission tunnel and to the right around the planned storage box above the tank. This is a pretty rough picture, but the harness is wrapped back up and laying in the approximate position it will be secured when the time comes.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79372&d=1516128609

On a related note, every build needs to have some new tools, right? I picked up a Power Probe III that replaces several individual tools used while doing electrical work. This could become my next favorite tool. Measures voltage, continuity, plus can power circuits. I know a lot of people struggle with wiring. This might help if you have a basic understanding of electricity. This promo video shows what it does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=181&v=GdH-e4Q9p5k. I bought the unit plus the cable kit. I like it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79395&d=1516141101

The other kind of big deal with this update is my seats. I mentioned before we wanted something other than racing seats. But also something that sat up a little higher than the Factory Five demos we’ve sat in. Plus something that didn’t block the entrance or exit too much. Desirable for me. Pretty much mandatory for my wife if she’s ever going to ride in this thing. After a lot of review, I ordered a Corbeau Sportline Evolution X 64901FBS seat. As I also mentioned before, we want heated seats and Corbeau has the option of ordering them with the heater already installed. But at that point they become custom and non-returnable. A little dangerous without ever seeing or trying one. So I ordered a stock seat with the intention of returning it and ordering the custom heated version if it fit OK. I didn’t receive any advance shipping information (vendor drop ship through Summit) but today FedEx left a big box on my snowy porch. I was like the Dad on Christmas Story opening his major award getting that thing out of the box and into the cockpit of the Coupe. Good news. It fits.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79369&d=1516128546

We like it a lot. Looks good and is comfortable to sit in. Just what we were going for. A couple more details. Corbeau has two versions of this seat. One with an adjustable back and one with a fixed back. This is the fixed back version and as suspected I think it’s best for the Coupe. I believe they will spend most of their life back about as far as they'll go. So an adjustable back wouldn’t be usable then anyway. Plus without the mechanism for the seatback, the corners clear the harness attachment points and fits between nicely. Of all the dimensions I was most concerned with, the cushion width on the front was listed as the same as the available space in the cockpit. With insulation and carpet added, wasn’t sure how it would work. But turns out it fits with clearance on each side. So all OK there. The one interference is the side of the headrest at the top pushes slightly into the roll bar cage. The headrest on this seat is slightly wider than some other seats, and turns out it does contact the bar. But the cushion there is soft, so even if it touches or pushes into it a little, not an issue. Corbeau has three different height sliding bases for this seat. After trying several heights with wood blocks, looks like the lowest one will be just right. All the way back, there’s an inch or two more space than the Roadster with the standard seats all the way back. There won’t be a lot of forward adjustment. Probably 2-3 inches. That works perfectly for us. I tried the seat in both driver and passenger side. Both OK. Also confirmed it sits at the right angle, especially important on the driver side, e.g. square to the steering wheel and dash. All good. I’ll get the custom ones ordered.

Our forecast for a mild winter has been anything but that so far. Multiple below zero days, multiple times following the snow blower up and down our driveway. You know, the standard Michigan drill. The heater in the garage keeps it comfortable when I’m working out there. But still thinking about warmer weather already.

Vette1972

01-16-2018, 05:43 PM

Edwardb,

Nice detail on the electrical wiring, fuse panel and seats. Your attention to detail is great for us dreamers. Any thoughts on paint yet? :rolleyes:

Thanks,
Len

edwardb

01-16-2018, 05:56 PM

Edwardb,

Nice detail on the electrical wiring, fuse panel and seats. Your attention to detail is great for us dreamers. Any thoughts on paint yet? :rolleyes:

Thanks,
Len

Yes, it will be painted. :cool:

Oh, you mean color, right? All builds to date have been red. So don't be too surprised if it goes that way. But seriously (really!) looking at blues. Something modern and maybe without stripes. But that final decision is a long way off and probably will change many times between now and then.

Vette1972

01-16-2018, 06:37 PM

Yes, it will be painted. :cool:

Oh, you mean color, right? All builds to date have been red. So don't be too surprised if it goes that way. But seriously (really!) looking at blues. Something modern and maybe without stripes. But that final decision is a long way off and probably will change many times between now and then.

:D I just wanted to kid you about the RED! Your cars are really super. I really enjoy following along. Thanks!!

Bob Brandle

01-16-2018, 10:17 PM

Edwardb,
I'm so glad that the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X fixed back seat fits the Gen 3 Coupe! Thanks for taking the flier and ordering one to test out. I've been eyeing that seat for a month now, and "preliminarily selected it" as I do research for my future coupe. Now I feel that my seat choice is settled. I plan to order the coupe this summer for an October delivery target (alert to FFR, LOL). I'm following your build and a few others quite closely and appreciate all of the documentation and discussions along the way.
BobB

Higgybulin

01-17-2018, 06:01 AM

"But still thinking about warmer weather already."
Oh you ain't kidding!!! Coupe is coming along great!!

WIS89

01-17-2018, 11:28 AM

Paul-

I really like those seats! Nice job sorting through the variety of choices, and picking one that works so well. Nice that the bride approves as well.

As far as this cold goes, you aren't kidding. Even we southerners are ready for spring. We are getting around 5 inches of snow as I type this; this is nuts!

Thanks as always for the detailed build thread. I am enjoying following this build as well. Now to convince the wife that I need a Coupe after I finish the Roadster!

Regards,

Steve

Phlushot

01-19-2018, 04:56 PM

When I was wrenching the Power Probe was easily one of my favorite tools. If you ever use a test light you should replace it with a Power Probe.

JoeAIII

01-23-2018, 08:04 PM

Paul, I know this is a few months back at this point, but regarding the wheel studs... On this build and 8674you mentioned pulling them in with a but and an impact driver. Why not press them in with the vice, opposite of the way you get the old ones out?

edwardb

01-23-2018, 09:05 PM

Paul, I know this is a few months back at this point, but regarding the wheel studs... On this build and 8674 you mentioned pulling them in with a nut and an impact driver. Why not press them in with the vice, opposite of the way you get the old ones out?

Maybe it could, but I didn't try. It takes a lot of force to get them all the way in. An arbor press would be best for pressing them in. Properly fixtured, that would be ideal. But I don't have one and I do have an impact driver. It literally just takes a few minutes.

Papa

01-23-2018, 10:04 PM

Paul,

You'll definitely like the Power Probe. Just be careful when powering circuits with it. I gave myself quite a scare. It all worked out fine, but gave me reason to be a lot more aware before pressing the button to apply power! The build is looking great. You've got me thinking about what will come after the roadster is done.

Dave

JoeAIII

01-23-2018, 10:12 PM

Maybe it could, but I didn't try. It takes a lot of force to get them all the way in. An arbor press would be best for pressing them in. Properly fixtured, that would be ideal. But I don't have one and I do have an impact driver. It literally just takes a few minutes.

Roger. Keep up the great work.

edwardb

01-27-2018, 11:05 AM

Pretty good week for the Coupe build. On Monday Factory Five shipped two big boxes of backordered parts. Wednesday the FedEx parts delivery truck arrived. I’m down to two missing parts for the entire kit. Headlight covers and side pipes. One apparently a vendor issue, the other waiting to get through the shop at FF. Neither will hold up my build for many months so no more excuses. For the record, that’s just short of seven weeks from kit delivery to basically all the parts needed. That includes holidays, blizzards, etc. In hindsight, not too bad I guess and probably pretty typical. Doesn’t make it any easier though and I don’t claim to be the world’s most patient person. But it’s done and behind me now and will soon be a distant memory.

The main parts I was waiting for were the three sets of IRS arms and a couple bolts. With those in hand, I completed the IRS assembly pretty much the day the parts arrived. Not too much to say about all this. For the Gen 3 Coupe, they all appear to be the same parts as used on the Roadster, so it was a bit of a re-run putting it all together. This has all been pretty thoroughly documented before, so I’ll spare the blow-by-blow description. Four tips from my side though: (1) Grease the fittings before assembly. Pump the grease until it comes out the little holes in the ends and then smear it around on the poly bushings. This not only makes sure the joints are properly greased, but makes it a bit easier to assemble. (2) Figure on spreading all the tabs. I used the threaded rod/washers/nuts technique described by others and mentioned before. Works great and doesn’t mar the powder coat. Doesn’t take much, so don’t overdue it. But spreading them out slightly fixes where there is zero or less clearance (pretty common) and also just makes it a bit easier to assemble. (3) I did find the UCA was probably 1/8-inch or so too narrow. There was no way that was going to go in with spreading the tabs, grease, a big hammer, whatever. I used my floor jack to spread the UCA's and that worked great. They hook between the front axle and lift pad of the floor jack and after a couple tries they slid right in. The bolts went in fine as well so bending them out just a bit didn’t misalign anything. Likely just had moved a little when welded. (4) Finally, the tapered bolts I talked about in the Anniversary Roadster build thread continue to be a huge help to get everything in and aligned. For anyone putting this suspension together for the first time, just prepare yourself. Everything is really TIGHT and it can be a bit frustrating. But it works and is a beautiful thing when it's all together.

Once the IRS assembly was completed, fitted up the Wilwood rear brakes. Those are kind of fun to work on. The instructions are excellent and the parts fit perfectly. Went through the steps to shim as described. Ended up with no shims on the mounting bracket, and only one shim under each caliper mounting bolt. Alignment and centering appears to be perfect. Nice job Wilwood. Still need to run the e-brake cables.

With that done, completed both sway bars. I didn’t have the mounting bushings until this last part shipment, so couldn’t do the front before. Now was able to complete both. I backed off the coilover springs and used a 2x4 and a floor jack to push the suspensions through their travel. I confirmed the rod ends for both front and back are basically perpendicular when the suspensions are at ride height. They angle in/out when the suspensions are full up or down, but confirmed they did so without binding.

Not much else to say except post pictures. I’m really happy with the POR15 black painted knuckles. Blends right in with everything else and looks nice. Absolutely nothing gained or meaningful, but I don’t care. I like it. I followed my usual practice of putting a red paint dot on each bolt as the final torque value was set.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79867&d=1517065603

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79868&d=1517065613

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79869&d=1517065623

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79871&d=1517065642

This is a pretty cool view of the underside of the chassis. Shows once again how different the Gen 3 Coupe is from before and also from the Roadster. Also shows how nice it is to have a lift.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79870&d=1517065634

This is the completed sway bar on the front suspension. Not much to see here. The mounting is different than the Roadster on the front of the 4-inch tubes. Other than that, very similar.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79865&d=1517065569

So really big news on another front. As described in my first post, the intended engine for this build is a Gen 3 Coyote. Even though I have several contacts at Ford, still no definitive word on when the crate version will be released. Their policy is that release dates are provided right before the actual release. There was some chatter on the forum that they haven’t even started the PCM programming and the crate version might not even be released this year. Based on feedback I’m getting, that doesn’t appear to be the case. Best guess remains first or second quarter this year. Maybe as late as summer. Since I’m just a few weeks away from really wanting the engine and trans for mockup, I’ve been talking to myself about going with the Gen 2 Coyote. That’s an awesome engine and love it in the Anniversary Roadster. But a part of me didn’t want to give up on the Gen 3 idea. Then I had a brainstorm that if could get a Coyote block, even a scrap one, I could mount the bell housing and transmission, put the assembly in the chassis, and proceed with the build. Would buy me some months at least. Long story short, I was able to obtain a loaner Gen 2 block! It has a hole in the side right next to where it looks like #7 had a bit of an incident. I have to give it back, but no time limit. This absolutely meets my needs. In the next weeks, I’m going to get the T-56, bell, etc. and drop this into the chassis.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79866&d=1517065593

I’ve been working on lighting – all LED – and will report about that probably in my next update.

Vette1972

01-27-2018, 11:13 AM

Edwardb,

Really looking good! The detail you provide with photos is excellent. I'm enjoying the progress as you move along.

Thanks,
Len

JoeAIII

01-27-2018, 01:08 PM

Great to hear you found a block for mock-up. I hope to embark on the gen3 odyssey along with you.

michael everson

01-29-2018, 06:35 AM

edwardb

01-29-2018, 07:20 AM

Edward. I found that if you mount the fuse box under the dash in the foot box area, there is no way to get the bundle of wire up behind the dash without being seen. That is why I mounted mine behind the dash. Also the corner pieces that get attached to the dash will make it even more difficult. I ran the front harness throught he left hand corner of the fire wall for the same reason.

Thanks Mike. Thanks for following along and providing ideas. At this point I'm pretty committed to the location on LH side of the footbox. I've taken the corner piece of the dash into account. But nothing is cast in concrete yet. I'm not planning to finalize anything until I have the Coyote harness and also the A/C/heat ducts to also find room for. I'm expecting I'll need to remove most of the conduit from the main harness and reconfigure it so it fits the way I want. Including probably removing the connectors for the front harness so it can go through the footbox with less interference. But we'll see further down the road. I agree your approach is probably best if the harness is left in the stock form.

Straversi

01-29-2018, 10:10 AM

edwardb

01-29-2018, 10:32 AM

I'm just now noticeing that you have been ale to do all of this with the sheet metal and body on the car. Man, am I jealous of that lift! Are you doing it this way to help mock things up as you go or is the recommended assembly for the Coupe?
-Steve

Nope, just my choice. Once I get fuel, brake, and electrical mocked up and installed I'll take everything apart and get serious about the panels. Right now they're not in the way.

RoadRacer

01-29-2018, 10:41 AM

I followed my usual practice of putting a red paint dot on each bolt as the final torque value was set.

Glad you reminded me..I'll have to do that. I was looking around last weekend and wondering what still needed final torque. I really thought I'd remember, ha!

Dave Howard

01-29-2018, 11:23 AM

One thing Millwrights do is to mark the fastener being torqued, and carry the mark onto the surface being clamped. Then it's a quick visual to see if fasteners have worked their way loose.

edwardb

01-29-2018, 12:45 PM

All of the suspension fasteners FF provides use some type of lock nut. Nylon insert, distorted thread, castle nuts, etc. I have a good quality digital torque wrench and follow the recommended torque specs very carefully. Properly installed and properly torqued, I'm confident they won't loosen. That's why I try to be disciplined about making sure they really have been set properly. I mark each one with the paint pen immediately after torquing. I don't trust my memory and it's way too easy to get going and loose track.

There are a couple locations that have been identified as ones to watch however. Those include the IRS camber and toe adjustment sleeves, and the front UCA ball joints. Those I do put a witness mark on and watch carefully. Haven't seen anything move yet, but following the recommendations there. The big axle nut on the IRS was prone to loosen on the previous version IRS. Guys did all kinds of things to keep those tight. Haven't heard anything like that on the 2015+ version, but it's also pretty new in comparison. I've got witness marks on those too. But also without seeing anything move so far.

Additionally, I check every suspension nut and bolt as part of the annual PM, oil change, chassis lube, etc. I've yet to find anything loose in multiple seasons with the exception of one case where I foolishly had the jam nut against the wrong side of an adjustment sleeve. Fixed that one to say the least! Interestingly, Wilwood doesn't use any lock nuts in their brake systems. But they do specify red Loctite on everything along with torque values.

Bottom line, by all means use witness marks if you want to and it makes you more comfortable. Certainly nothing wrong with it. Everyone has their own build practices and should do what works for them. But focus on the process you use and make sure it's right in the first place. I'm betting you won't have any issues. Marks or no marks. Now back out to the garage for more progress.

RR20AC

01-29-2018, 12:54 PM

Thanks Paul for the detail. I also torqued and marked your way and have not seen any back off yet. Really coming along quickly.

Dlirium

01-29-2018, 01:49 PM

Glad you reminded me..I'll have to do that. I was looking around last weekend and wondering what still needed final torque. I really thought I'd remember, ha!

Yes, one of the best tips from Paul!!

edwardb

01-31-2018, 05:57 PM

My plan for this build is for all LED lighting, exterior and interior. It’s bright, draws low current, and lasts a long time. If you believe the claimed hours, probably the lifetime of the car. That’s what I did with #8674, and after living with it for a year, like it a lot. Fortunately, Factory Five did provide some LED fixtures with the Gen 3 Coupe kit. So that’s a good start. The Speedhut gauges, as most probably know, are a combination of electroluminescence panel and LED needles. So nothing to do there either. For the rest, I’ve been studying and shopping for the last few weeks, and think I have everything nailed down.

The first thing you learn when you start looking is that the market is inundated with LED lights. Of every size, kind, and variety. Most from China which is no surprise. The second thing you learn is a very high percentage of it is low quality, even junk. The third thing is that a lot of what’s advertised as automotive related is not DOT/SAE compliant. Whenever you see the words “for off-road use only” it’s pretty certain it’s not DOT/SAE compliant. For some builders, this doesn’t matter and their inspection/titling/registration process doesn’t check for it. For others, it is a big deal and could keep the build from being titled. In my case, even though not checked in Michigan, I still chose to use only DOT/SAE compliant fixtures. Just prevents any issues down the road, and in very general terms, I found lights with these ratings were generally higher quality.

Another criterion for me is that I wanted the lighting to look traditional or classic as much as possible. There are a lot of fixtures out there, especially headlights, that are very modern looking with halo rings, integral turn signals, etc. Nothing wrong with that if that’s what you’re going for. I’ve seen some of those products on cars at London and elsewhere. It’s pretty cool especially when done along with other modern style touches. But not my thing for this build.

After a couple purchases and returns, I found LED products from Maxxima to generally be decent quality. As you’ll see when I talk details, some of the lights from Factory Five and also Watson’s Streetworks are from there. For LED headlights, here the market seems especially flooded. You can find bulbs from $20 a pair to ten times that and more. As I found out, it matters. On #8674, I have the LED headlight package from Watson’s Streetworks. They are Hella H4 Vision Plus lenses with LED replacement bulbs. They’re excellent. I’ve got a lot of driving on them in #8674. They’re bright, crisp, and make driving at night easy compared to the stock flashlight halogens. But at $249 a pair, I thought I could be clever and do the same thing for less. Bought the same Hella lenses, and some highly rated LASFIT H4 LED bulbs from Amazon for $60. You know the old cliché about you get what you pay for? After just a few minutes, realized these were not good and exercised Amazon’s quick and simple return process. They weren’t very bright and the light pattern was all over the place. After a lot more looking, reading, watching YouTube videos, etc., bit the bullet (budget? What budget?) and went for a pair of GTR Lighting Ultra Series 3rd Generation LED H4 bulbs. Arrived today and I’m very happy with them. Quality seems outstanding. Here they are installed in my kit provided headlight parts and Hella lenses.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80179&d=1517437973

Unlike some other products on the market, they use an external driver that won’t fit inside the bucket. But there’s an in-line connector so they install in the plastic kit buckets through the regular grommet with the driver mounted on the outside.

For the rest of the front lighting package, FF provided four Maxxima M09300Y marker lights and M50112 SS covers for the running and turn signal lights that go in the covered headlight area. For the fog/driving lights used on the Coupe, FF provided a pair of halogen lights. They’re a little small for the opening and power hogs. My 12+ amp power supply won’t light a single fixture. Plus no DOT/SAE markings. After a lot of looking, I went with KC HiLiTES 493 4" Gravity LED fog lights. They’re slightly larger and seem to be excellent quality. Again, not cheap (recurring theme??) but I think will be perfect. I’ll need to fab something to mount the flat base to the round interior of the opening. But that will be easy. They have a tilt adjustment screw, so will be easy to aim. Because of the low current draw, don’t take heavy wiring or relays. They came with a very nice harness including Deutsch weatherproof connectors. This is the entire front lighting package:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80178&d=1517437964

For the rear lights, FF provided the LED running/turn signal/brake light fixtures. These are a super nice setup made up of United Pacific Industries ’37 Ford taillights (that’s right!), trim rings, gaskets, and a mounting bracket held in with an internal snap ring. They are quite bright. Very happy with these.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80181&d=1517437995

For the rest of the rear lights, I think I’m going to do a 3rd brake light buried in the spoiler. I have a Maxxima M63319R 9 LED light bar that I’m tentatively planning for that. I have a smaller version that I might use but expect will go with this one. I’m planning to install a back-up light. I’ve chosen a Maxxima M42206 14 LED surface mount fixture. Finally, there’s the license plate light that FF provided with an incandescent bulb. I cut out the bulb socket and replaced it with an MAL-S-WW2 LED license plate bolt from superbrightleds.com and two SS fender washers. One on the front and one on the back. Easy mod and works great. This is the same LED license plate bolt used on #8674 and other builds to mod the Roadster license plate light bracket.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80176&d=1517437948

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80177&d=1517437955

This the entire rear lighting package:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80180&d=1517437986

Last but not least, for the interior I’m going to install footwell lights on the underside of the dash, like I’ve done before, tied to the courtesy light circuit. Twisting the headlight knob will turn them on and off. For those, I’ll be installing Watson’s Streetworks L96WCL white LED lights from Maxxima. Also, not lighting related, but the interior will have a 12V accessory outlet and a dual USB outlet. These fixtures are from Blue Seas Systems. Always decent quality. There also will be LED indicators. The Speedhut gauges already have turn signal and high beam LED's built in. I've tested them and they're not super bright. Pretty sure they'll be OK as is though since the Coupe has a roof overhead. I'll be adding two additional LED's -- MIL (Multifunction Indicator Light, aka Check Engine) for the Coyote and an indicator for the cooling fan. I like to see a light when it's switched on and running. I haven't picked the exact lights because I'm still designing the dash.

That’s it for all that. Will be a while before most is installed. But for now I think it’s all sorted out. As for the actual build, yesterday I completed the e-brake cable installation. Couple of slight glitches with the provided Dorman cables. I had to trim a bit off the end of the crimped piece at the calipers. Interfered with the provided Wilwood connector parts. No big deal and plenty left to hold. At the e-brake handle, the cables were actually a bit short. Wouldn’t reach the male/female rod ends coming off the handle assembly. Using a hacksaw and leftover rod ends from #8674 because I had used a Lokar piece on that build, I cobbled together a 3/4-inch extension, and all is good. The e-brakes work perfectly.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80183&d=1517438030

Finally, spent some time yesterday aligning the IRS. It looked really wonky plus I wanted to do a sanity check on wheel spacing while the body was still on the chassis. Got the rear alignment really close I think, but will check it again when I have a rolling chassis. Most Gen 3 Coupe builders have reported the tires tuck in too far on the body, and at least a 1-inch spacer is needed. With #8674 sitting there with the same wheel/tire package I’m planning for this build, I hijacked the rear wheel/tires for a couple hours to complete the alignment and check how they fit to the body. I too found that spacers are needed. Minimum 1-inch. Maybe even a bit more. Most everything I found was either 1-inch or 1-1/2 inches. I went with the 1-inch. Ordered Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer hub centric 1-inch spacers. These are 09-2014 Mustang parts. Hub spacing is the same as the 2015+ and has the same 1/2-20 lug nuts as the rest of the build. A little pricey, but these are critical parts and I’ve been very happy with the quality of Eibach parts in the past.

Today I started work on mounting the radiator and the first sheet metal pieces on the radiator tunnel. I have some fitment issues I’m working through, including the small opening and angle for the lower radiator hose. I’ll figure it out. Also looking at other builds. Next week I’m planning to order my T-56 and bell and prepare to drop in the engine mock-up.

Wilder

01-31-2018, 09:42 PM

If you ever have the time could you do a list of parts you add to your build. Im not going to try to out think you and going to do what you recommend except Im going with headlights with clear turn signals in them. I ordered my can Jan 15th.

edwardb

02-01-2018, 08:09 AM

Raceral

02-01-2018, 02:14 PM

Good Grief.... I just stumbled across this.... Dang it, just when I thought I was tired of building... here you go making me wanting to do a Coupe

TheBabyBadger

02-01-2018, 05:00 PM

WOW. Finally caught up. Loving the build. It seems like most of the kit is actually pretty spot on. Definitely doing the coupe after your advice on the three builds, just waiting to get out of escrow to make my deposit! I'll keep watching your build and let you know when mine starts. LOVING IT! Great build so far!

edwardb

02-02-2018, 09:13 PM

Since the last update, got out the #30 drill bits and clecos and started at it. First up was the radiator tunnel. This is where we get to play how many clecos does it take.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80313&d=1517623345

I mentioned in my last update that I had a couple of fitment issues with the radiator tunnel. Two things. First, initially I couldn’t get the radiator down far enough for the top mounting bracket to sit down properly on the frame rails. The solution was to trim 1/8-inch off the back edge of the lower radiator channel. (not sure what to call it…) That allowed the radiator to push down just enough to get the top mounting bracket installed. Second is the angled lower radiator outlet. With the radiator centered in the lower mounts, the outlet is obstructed and it would be very difficult to get the lower radiator hose properly attached. Sliding it over toward the driver side helps, but then the lower mount on that side interferes. This is also mentioned in another build thread and it was suggested to bend the ear on the mount enough to push the radiator over. That’s what I did. You can see it if you look closely at the picture above. Some of the powder coat peeled off when bent that much. No surprise. I'll touch it up with gloss POR15. Matches perfectly.

It’s still going to be challenging to get the lower radiator hose installed, but I think it will work. Kind of ironic. I struggled with three Roadster builds. The Afco radiator used on those had a straight lower outlet, which points the lower radiator hose right at the frame tow hook mounts used on Roadsters. The newer angled radiator solves that problem very nicely. But sure would be nice to have a straight lower outlet on this Coupe build instead of the angled one. I think it would work much better. Oh well. These don’t show the issue too well, but this is the area in question. From the front and the back. The lower radiator hose will still be pressed against the square frame member. But I think it will go in. I’m planning to check out the Boig Motorsports upper and lower Gen 3 Coupe Coyote hoses. Hopefully they’ve taken this limited space into account.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80315&d=1517623364

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80314&d=1517623352

This is the radiator tunnel with the mockup basically complete. You can see how it's off-center to the driver's side. I’m using a radiator shroud from Breeze. It’s tight, but it works. Now back apart and out for powder coat.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80316&d=1517623372

Couple more updates. Yesterday my Corbeau seats arrived. We went with the red stitching version. Very happy with how they look. These have pre-installed seat heaters, which I tested and work OK. Only pull 3.6 amps each on either high or low. So shouldn’t be any trouble finding a circuit for them.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80311&d=1517623308

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80312&d=1517623315

Today my 1-inch Eibach rear wheel spacers arrived. Super nice quality and perfect fit. I’ve very impressed. Made in Germany actually. No surprise the existing wheel studs are longer than 1-inch, so protruded through the spacers. But I knew the FF wheels had indents between the lug holes on the back side of the wheels, so assumed they would fit. Well, we all know about assume. The indents of the wheels didn’t line up with the protruding studs so of course the wheels wouldn’t mount properly. So back apart and out with the air cut-off tool. Took it slow and easy (no choice since those tools are air hogs) and trimmed the ends off. Wheels mount perfectly. I'm probably going to put some of the Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black I've been using elsewhere on them. They do show a little through the spokes of the wheel. Can't have that. Kind of of stand out against the black Wilwood brakes.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80317&d=1517623413

Family activities the next couple days. But back at it next week. Pretty happy with the progress two months in. Ready for spring, but staying warm working in the garage.

Vette1972

02-02-2018, 09:44 PM

Love the detail! Really nice seats!! Thanks!

Straversi

02-02-2018, 11:11 PM

Couple more updates. Yesterday my Corbeau seats arrived. We went with the red stitching version. Very happy with how they look.

Ha, I'm guessing your son will have to build his own Coupe if he wants to see a blue one in e driveway....
-Steve

edwardb

02-03-2018, 06:34 AM

Good Grief.... I just stumbled across this.... Dang it, just when I thought I was tired of building... here you go making me wanting to do a Coupe

Sorry. :p

Ha, I'm guessing your son will have to build his own Coupe if he wants to see a blue one in the driveway....
-Steve

Hey, I can't help it if they didn't offer blue stitching. Seriously though, not sure if blue is ruled out. But let's just say red is a leading contender right now.

wareaglescott

02-03-2018, 07:05 AM

edwardb

02-03-2018, 08:34 AM

Good update Paul. A couple questions.

I noticed preciously you mentioned you were going with the seat that has the fixed back. Are there any brackets available that allow you to mount them at whatever desired recline angle you like and how is the interior room for mounting with some recline? I know my Kirkeys had a bracket that allowed you to choose from numerous settings to vary the seat back angle.

Never used a wheel spacer before. Does it simply just bolt on and nothing more to worry about? (other than the trimming you mentioned.)

Thanks. The Corbeau seats use a separately purchased bracket that bolts to four attachment points on the bottom of the seats. They have three different height brackets. I'll be using the lowest 1-inch version: https://corbeau.com/other/master-seat-brackets/1-tall-universal-seat-bracket.html. They're made to bolt directly to the floor, so no built-in method to adjust the recline angle. Probably you could put spacers under the bracket to adjust the angle. But with them flat on the floor, the seat back hits the outside corner of the cockpit when all the way back. Increasing the recline angle would reduce the possible leg room. For my very average 5'-10" height, I don't need all the available legroom. But I don't want to limit it either. The seats feel fine to me with the 1-inch added bracket height and feet down in the footwell that drops a couple inches like the Roadster along with the stock recline angle. So I'll be mounting them flat.

Yes, the wheel spacers are really that simple. The instructions say to make sure the hub is clean and rust free so it sits flat. Not a problem with a new build. The spacers come with nuts that match the taper and the instructions say to torque them to the same value as your lug nuts. You use your existing wheel lug nuts on the new set of spacer provided studs. All very straightforward. The instructions say these are billet aluminum. But they're some kind of alloy that is quite substantial. The shipping weight on the box with the two spacers was 6-1/2 lbs.

Paul G

02-03-2018, 09:35 AM

Looking good, hoping to get my Roadster running this weekend and start focusing back on the Coupe.

Jeff Kleiner

02-03-2018, 09:56 AM

...This is where we get to play how many clecos does it take...

I think it could have been done with 2 fewer ;)

Great documentation as usual Paul!

Jeff

Derald Rice

02-03-2018, 11:25 AM

But let's just say red is a leading contender right now.

I wonder if anyone is surprised.

After all, you have a precedence to uphold.

dncharo

02-03-2018, 04:34 PM

edwardb

02-03-2018, 04:54 PM

Paul,
I absolutely love those seats! Do you think they would fit in the MK4? We got the Kirky high backs from FFR when we ordered our kit, but if your seats fit then we might try to sell them on the classifieds and buy the ones you got.
David

I honestly don't know. Their website has a dimension chart. It's the last one on the images list: https://corbeau.com/sportline-evolution-x.html. You could compare these dimensions to your Kirkey high backs. I've only ever installed the traditional Roadster low back seats in my Roadster builds. So don't have a sense of what else might fit. Good luck.

dncharo

02-03-2018, 05:32 PM

Thanks for the quick response. I’ll give it a look. I also noticed they don’t have a slot for the 5th seat belt (anti-submarine). Are you still planning on using it or just going with 4 point?

edwardb

02-03-2018, 08:09 PM

Thanks for the quick response. I’ll give it a look. I also noticed they don’t have a slot for the 5th seat belt (anti-submarine). Are you still planning on using it or just going with 4 point?

On my "TBD" list. I've used the anti-submarine belt with the kit provided Simpsons on my previous Roadster builds. Those were regular Roadster seats and fixed. It's never been quite clear to me how guys use the anti-submarine belt with sliding seats. With or without the slot in the seats. Maybe they don't. In addition to looking at the Simpson belts, another possibility is the Schroth Profi II ASM setup designed to be used as a four point system.

Boig Motorsports

02-03-2018, 10:33 PM

Yes, Boig Motorsports took the extremely limited space into account when we designed the lower cooling hose for the Gen 3 Coupe! I'm sure you'll be impressed with the fit!

Bob Boig

edwardb

02-04-2018, 12:17 AM

Yes, Boig Motorsports took the extremely limited space into account when we designed the lower cooling hose for the Gen 3 Coupe! I'm sure you'll be impressed with the fit!

Bob Boig

That's great news! You will be hearing from me. And thanks for following my build thread. :)

Dlirium

02-04-2018, 05:55 AM

On my "TBD" list. I've used the anti-submarine belt with the kit provided Simpsons on my previous Roadster builds. Those were regular Roadster seats and fixed. It's never been quite clear to me how guys use the anti-submarine belt with sliding seats. With or without the slot in the seats. Maybe they don't. In addition to looking at the Simpson belts, another possibility is the Schroth Profi II ASM setup designed to be used as a four point system.

I used the Schroth Rallye Cross 4 point system on another car with Sparco R100 seats. I was really impressed with how they do the "anti-sub" without the 5th point. I definitely recommend their stuff and would NOT put an anti-sub on a seat that wasn't designed for it.

Jim1855

02-04-2018, 11:19 AM

On my two previous cars I had the 5th anti-sub / crotch belt. These wrapped over the seat and went to the floor under the seat. Also had adjustable seats.

In a perfect world these were not properly mounted but... The 5th belt kept the buckle positioned low and across my hips where it needs to be rather than riding up around my waist.

My guess is that if you followed racing regulations on belt install there'd be a lot of redesigning going on.

For the Challenge Car I'll use 6-point belts and Kirkey seats.

Jim
> edited on 2/5 to correct text.

Jkviper

02-05-2018, 12:55 PM

edwardb

02-05-2018, 02:29 PM

hi Edward, I am really enjoying your build thread and was speaking with FRR today. Which gauges did you order for this build? I like them very much. I see your gauges have a clockwise speedometer and Dan from FFR said the optional gauges have a reversed speedo and if I wanted a clockwise speedo speed hut could make that mod. Was just wondering if you had to go through that process and what the cost was. Thanks, Joel..

Those are right off the Gen 3 Coupe order form. Part number 60312 - Coupe GPS Gauge set. $425.00 addition over the standard gauges. They are Speedhut gauges and were delivered along with my kit exactly as pictured. Nothing special I had to do.

GoDadGo

02-05-2018, 07:45 PM

Jkviper

02-05-2018, 08:26 PM

Thanks Edward. I appreciate the reply.

edwardb

02-05-2018, 09:47 PM

Sir EdwardB,

How are you feeling about this build so far compared to your previous builds?
Just wondering what your thoughts are so far having watched your previous projects become show winning reality.
Thanks In Advance!

Steve

Hey Steve. Interesting question. Had to think about it a little. So far, I would have to say it all feels pretty familiar. The front and rear suspensions are nearly identical. Brakes and shocks are the same. Fuel tank is the same. Pedal box and pedals are the same. A few different wrinkles here and there and how they're mounted. But still feels about the same. Next week I hope to get the engine mock-up in place, then start working on fuel and brake lines. The routing, especially for the fuel lines, will be quite different. But in the end, still similar techniques. I've started working on the aluminum panels. Again, same process (including inordinate amount of clecos :p). The panels are different shapes and sizes of course. But the panel overall layout is similar. Some of the big differences are still ahead. Heat and A/C. Very different instrument panel. Different door hinges and latches. Very different glass. And of course the body is also very different including the tip-up nose (unless you're Jazzman or 2bking). In general, the fit of everything is quite good. The body looks like it's going to fit up well. Based on everything I've heard and seen, it's an easier build than the previous Coupes. Generally, the Coupe was not recommended as a first build. I'm still a long way from done so I might change my mind. But I'm not sure that's the case any more. Those are my random thoughts after being maybe 15-20% in.

dbursch

02-06-2018, 11:00 PM

GoDadGo

02-07-2018, 06:41 AM

Thanks-O-Million For The The Reply!

Though there is no way for me to build one anytime soon (3-5 Years) you never what will be in store for the future after I finally get my MK-4 on the road.

Thanks Again!

edwardb

02-07-2018, 08:23 AM

Paul, Have you thought about the door windows yet? Will you use the ones with the kit? I know there have been a few folks looking at roll up/power windows..but haven't seen anything lately.
Thanks,
Dan

The kit doesn't come with any side windows. Only the scoop at the rear of the openings. My understanding is that Factory Five is working on Gen 3 side windows. Something similar to what was available on the Gen 2 I'm assuming. But I don't know for sure. I haven't heard anything further for some time, so actually just asked again. It's not something that's slowing me down at this time. But I do plan on have side windows in the finished car. I'm not remotely interested in trying to install roll up/power windows. The modifications would be extensive. The existing door frame and hinge design would have to redone. I'm not even sure if the shape of the door and body is conducive to a roll-up window. I saw a Gen 2 Coupe build, I think on the other forum, where the builder installed roll-up power windows. Impressive, but a huge effort, including body mods. Just not going to go there. If you look at a Superformance Daytona Coupe, which has power windows, the body and door opening are different. I'm sure partly to allow that.

Update: Factory Five is accepting pre-orders for the Gen 3 side windows. They are being fabricated at this time. I'll be getting on the list.

qwezxc12

02-07-2018, 09:33 AM

Update: Factory Five is accepting pre-orders for the Gen 3 side windows. They are being fabricated at this time. I'll be getting on the list.

Paul,

Did you contact FFR to get this info? I've been watching the parts catalog and news for this... I have a credit w/FFR that I was planning to put toward windows. Should I just call to get in the queue?

Thanks!

Alex

edwardb

02-07-2018, 10:15 AM

Paul,

Did you contact FFR to get this info? I've been watching the parts catalog and news for this... I have a credit w/FFR that I was planning to put toward windows. Should I just call to get in the queue?

Thanks!

Alex

Yes. Received the update from Factory Five this AM. Call them to get on the list. That's what I'll be doing.

dbursch

02-07-2018, 04:57 PM

Thanks Paul!

edwardb

02-08-2018, 09:51 AM

Couple of things since my last update. When I posted about the installation of the Eibach 1-inch rear wheel spacers last week, which involved shortening the existing wheel studs, I had only completed the driver side. Then took the weekend off. First thing Monday went after the passenger side. I still had my calipers set for the amount to trim off the ends of the wheel studs. Checked one of the pieces cut from the other side just to be sure. Looked good. Marked where to cut them, zipped off the five pieces with the air cut-off tool, cleaned up the ends with a file, and proceeded to install the wheel spacer. Uh-Oh. Big problem. The studs were too short. The lug nuts holding the spacer had at least 1/8-inch of open threads. Never acceptable, but especially for something as critical as wheel lug nuts. I can’t believe stuff like this happens, but it does. I remembered that when I went to install the kit supplied 1/2-20 studs, there were two slightly different styles. The tapered end on five was slightly different than the other five. Of course I put the matching five together on each side. Just what I do. What I now know, which didn’t register until now, is that one set was 1/4-shorter than the other. As a result, my cut off studs were now 1/4-inch too short. The warning signs were there, but I blew right past them and didn’t check carefully enough before cutting. You know the old carpenter’s line – I cut it three times and it was still too short. I guess that applies to building cars as well. I had no choice but to tear everything apart and replace those five studs. One step forward, two back.

Checked local parts stores, and no one had the right studs in stock. Checked Summit and they had multiple options. Ordered Dorman 610-290. Only thing available was a package of 10, so enough for another do-over (!!). Price was right though. I like ARP stuff, but theirs were three times the price for 5. I figured the Dorman parts were equivalent to the ones I already had, which turned out to be the case. While waiting for the parts to arrive, tore the rear suspension down and removed the bearing hub. Wasn’t too bad. After getting the brakes off, with the UCA and toe arm bolts out, the knuckle swung far enough out to get the CV axle out of the way and access to the four bearing bolts. Pressed out the now too short studs, cut the new ones to the proper length once they arrived (after checking my math multiple times), installed them into the hub, and put everything back together. All worked out fine and the replacement studs were exactly the right length. Good grief. What a pain. I put some Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black Satin rattle can paint on the spacers and installed torquing the nuts to 85 ft/lbs. Now really done on both sides. I think. :rolleyes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80584&d=1518101070

On a separate note, a little bit of news about the Gen 3 Coyote. Last Saturday, our local club (Great Lakes Cobra Club) had a club meeting at a restaurant in Dearborn. Just down the street from Ford world headquarters. We had a special speaker from Ford Performance who presented some information about Coyotes, especially related to their crate versions and use in our cars. He gave some general information about the upcoming Gen 3 Coyote crate, and afterwards I spoke with him in more detail. The high level summary is they do expect the crate Gen 3 to be released later this year. Probably by summer. They have a completed version running in a mule Mustang. Pricing hasn’t been finalized, but it will be more expensive. Apparently the DI components added are not cheap. They will have the Gen 3 crate Coyote displayed at the Ford booth at the Detroit Autorama March 2-4, along with the mule Mustang. I always attend that show so will take the opportunity to see it in person and talk to the Ford people in the booth. Maybe I can get a further update about availability at that time. Also will be using the next month to confirm if it will fit in the Gen 3 Coupe. That DI pump on the RH cylinder bank is an open question. Based on that, I’ll hopefully be able to make a decision about the Gen 3 Coyote for my build. I was also told they have about a one year supply of the Gen 2 Coyote crates in the Ford Performance warehouse. So doesn’t seem there’s too much danger of not being able to get one of those if I decide to go that way. I won't be disappointed if that happens. But not going to give up on the Gen 3 version quite yet. We’ll see. On a separate note, the Fast 'N Loud "winning" Pantera and (I think he said...) Factory Five Snap-On Coupe will be in the Ford Performance booth at Autorama as well. Will be interesting to check those out in person.

Speaking of engines, hopefully the parts needed to start mocking up the drivetrain in my build, including the T-56, will be arriving soon. That’s next up.

cgundermann

02-08-2018, 10:01 AM

Great update Paul - thanks.

Chris

David Williamson

02-08-2018, 10:07 AM

Dlirium

02-08-2018, 10:52 AM

On a separate note, the Fast 'N Loud "winning" Pantera and (I think he said...) Factory Five Snap-On Coupe will be in the Ford Performance booth at Autorama as well. Will be interesting to check those out in person.

I've spent an unreasonable amount of time reviewing the Snap-on build videos on Youtube, specifically the Aluminator install. Since (I believe) it is more closely related to the Gen 2, it may have a better chance of fitment than the Gen 3 Coyote. Would appreciate and G2 you can gather along those lines, especially the height clearance. A guy (Kevin Phelps) on the FB forum just purchase an Aluminator from one of the popular vendors (can I mention names?), so we'll get some first-hand info from him soon. Unfortunately his kit isn't delivered yet, so it'll be a while...

edwardb

02-08-2018, 11:13 AM

I put 1.25 spacers on mine. I have the body and wheels on it and the fit is good. I think yours will look great as well. I got mine from EZAccessory (not all vendors will ship to Canada ) they have a huge selection on spacers.
Anyway if you are going IRS on a coupe plan on a 1 - 1.25 hub centric spacer if you use the FFR wheels. Only advantage with the 1.25 spacer is I did not have to cut the studs.
David W

Thanks for rubbing it in. Hey, two out of three isn't that bad. :p Seriously though, I mocked mine up with the exact wheels and tires I'll be using. 1-inch is good. 1.25-inch would be OK too I think. But I really wanted to use the Eibach spacers and they only come in 1 or 1.5. The 1.5's would maybe work, but just not worth it to me to chance having the tires rubbing the edges of the wheel wells. I agree though. Anyone doing a Gen 3 Coupe build with the FF wheels should look at spacers. Multiple build threads have reported the same thing. Just looks better.

I've spent an unreasonable amount of time reviewing the Snap-on build videos on Youtube, specifically the Aluminator install. Since (I believe) it is more closely related to the Gen 2, it may have a better chance of fitment than the Gen 3 Coyote. Would appreciate and G2 you can gather along those lines, especially the height clearance. A guy (Kevin Phelps) on the FB forum just purchase an Aluminator from one of the popular vendors (can I mention names?), so we'll get some first-hand info from him soon. Unfortunately his kit isn't delivered yet, so it'll be a while...

The engine in the Snap-On build is the 5.2L Aluminator 5.2 XS crate engine. Uses a standard Coyote block, but after that the similarity to any of the base Coyote crates ends. Different crank, rods, pistons, heads, cams, intake, etc. Awesome engine. It doesn't have DI, so that potential interference isn't an issue. I don't believe height is an issue either. Fits in the Gen 3 Coupe OK. I can't get past the $16K street price though. Roughly $10K for 80-100 HP that I probably can't use anyway for my street driving. Not saying I haven't looked at it, but just not going to do it. If you are going to go power adder, it probably is a better deal though than buying the base Coyote Aluminator at $10K and adding your own supercharger or whatever.

On a side note, just for interest, I think everyone knows the base Coyote crate engines are standard Mustang GT engines off the production line from the Ford Essex Engine plant in Windsor, Ontario. Most go to the Mustang assembly plant not far across the river in Flat Rock, Michigan. The guy from Ford told us all of the rest of the Coyote crate engines are built at a subcontractor in Livonia, Michigan. Same place they build the new Ford GT V-6 engine. He said it's a first rate operation and does very nice work. Mentioned they also assemble LS crate engines for GM there. Interesting.

nkw8181

02-08-2018, 12:28 PM

I know the supercharger height fitment was close. So close they trimmed the underside of the hood. I don't believe they had that problem with the aluminator. I don't have the body on yet but I can give measurements on the motor installed if that would help.

Jonince1960

02-13-2018, 12:23 PM

edwardb

02-13-2018, 03:28 PM

Hi Edward ...................Don't know if you have every heard of Vanguard Motor sales..................but they have a finished Factory Five type 65 Coupe for sale ...........might whet your appetite to watch it....Some Interesting feeatures...some of which you have already incorporated into your build some you haven't ...worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-5Xi5wUUkI

They also have a Superformance type 65 as well ..........some of the details on this one are interesting..........bottom mounted cooling fans ? Roush 427 stroker, 6 speed trans.......

https://inventory.vanguardmotorsales.com/vehicles/2519/1965-shelby-daytona-coupe-superformance#

Yes, I'm quite familiar with Vanguard. They're on the other side of town from me, but have been to their location several times. The first Factory Five Daytona I sat in was at their place. That was a couple years ago and I'm sure it's long gone. The black Factory Five you linked to looks pretty nice. It's a previous generation with the older style IRS. But whoever built it did a good job. Don't see it on their website so it's probably gone too. They turn stuff over pretty quickly there. The red Superformance is still showing in stock. The Superformance Coupe is cool. Very polished and production car finished quality. They took a few liberties with the body to achieve it. But that's OK. It's a great looking car. Certainly quite different than the more race inspired Factory Five version. Especially the interior obviously. I'm trying to find a kind of middle ground between the two. And I won't be spending quite that much. :p Thanks for posting.

edwardb

02-13-2018, 11:17 PM

Lots going on since my last update. Not the least of which was oral surgery after cracking a molar eating breakfast cereal of all things. Happened before Christmas, but our dentist wasn’t able to save it and it was hurting like crazy. So he recommended I meet his friend the oral surgeon. All over and mostly healed. Feels much better. Meanwhile, spending lots of money the past week or so. Making a dent in the shopping list. That’s my story anyway. I think my wife mostly believes me. No worries. She’s very supportive. I have everything I need, and tomorrow plan to drop in the engine/trans mockup. But first some other updates.

Several have commented about the Corbeau Sportline Evolution X seats I’ve decided to use, and specifically asked about the mounting brackets. I ended up with Corbeau C22059 Single Slider Brackets. These are one of three recommended universal brackets for these seats, and result in about 1-inch added height. Perfect for what I wanted. This is a view from the bottom. They bolt to the seat at four corners, and then flat to the floor of the cockpit. Fit very well. Also visible here is the wiring and relay for the factory installed seat heaters.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80907&d=1518571496

While waiting for parts to arrive, did some more planning for the instrument panel. It’s starting to come into focus. I want to stay with the basic Factory Five design but try to (hopefully) class it up a little. I’m planning to cover the dash with vinyl like the seats with 1/8-inch cushion on the face of the dash. I'll work with the interior shop I’ve used before to add some red stitching. Also like the seats. Same for door cards. For the dash itself, I’m going to follow my usual practice and hide all the fasteners. Just something I like to do. Once I finalize the gauge layout, I’m planning to make a new piece and install it flush into the dash held with a doubler on the back. I appreciate the Factory Five design that uses separate panels for the various gauge options and a common dash. But I want to clean it up just a little and the doubler will make it a little more solid.

First thing I’ve actually done is to attach the dash ends. I used hammer set flush solid aluminum rivets and put the first pass of filler on the edges. The vinyl will be wrapped around for a clean seamless look. I’m going to add an extension on the bottom center for switches and the HVAC controls. Just playing with some paper patterns right now. I’m probably going to use the brow piece. But we’ll see. Also tentatively planning to fab a glovebox similar to #8674. Handy to have plus I like the look and I think there’s room. Still very much a work in progress, but where I’m at right now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80910&d=1518571531

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80909&d=1518571521

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80908&d=1518571511

In the general category of why I could never build one of these in the several hundred hours suggested by Factory Five, spent some time cleaning up the door hinges. They’re nicely made and once installed only the arms show. I decided I wanted to remove the seam and small gaps on the visible corners of the arms, making them look solid. Well from one side anyway. Since I don’t weld, took them to the guy who’s done welding for me before and he ran a small bead along all eight corners. Then ground, sanded, filed, etc. (I’m not really too well equipped for this sort of thing) until they looked like this. Now off to powder coat and I think they’ll look good. Absolutely unnecessary and non-valued added work. But something I wanted to do.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80913&d=1518571708

After looking at every option I could find, went ahead and ordered the Factory Five heat/defroster/A-C setup. There are a number of systems out there, e.g. Vintage Air, etc. I just wanted to make sure I had the best option. In the end, the space available in the Gen 3 Coupe is very limited and the Factory Five offering looks like the best and maybe only solution. I’m going with it. Also found out the Gen 3 Coupe side windows are now available for sale. The design is firmed up and fabrication and powder coat underway. Hopefully I’ll see them in a few weeks. But no rush. It will be a while before I need them. The part number BTW is 60371 Gen 3 Coupe Side Window Components.

So on to the engine/trans mockup. I talked about the Gen 2 Coyote block I borrowed in a previous update. I ordered the Moroso pan and pickup, QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing, and Tremec T-56 transmission. I was able to score a great price on the QuickTime bell housing on eBay. A shop in California had one NIB for not that much more than the Tremec aluminum bell. So I grabbed it. Arrived today and exactly as advertised. As I understand the aluminum bell for the T-56/Coyote combination is being discontinued. So the QuickTime appears to be the only solution going forward. One thing I did notice. This is an SFI approved bell housing, and has a full circle with a line of bolts on the bottom. I suspect it's going to hang below the oil pan. I don't know yet how much it may hang below the frame. I'll find out when I mock it up and decide what to do. Probably some trimming will be required.

The T-56 I bought is actually a Ford Performance M-7003-M6266, but is a Tremec TUET11010 with a Ford Performance label. Just picked it up today and it looks good. It’s bigger and heavier than the TKO’s I’ve used, as expected. Nothing to trim off though, which is nice. One minor thing I was a little surprised about. It came with a metal plug with O-ring and bolted retainer in the mechanical speed sensor location. Not the usual rubber shipping plug. Nothing to do there. Pieces look like this right now:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80912&d=1518571635

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80914&d=1518575886

Tomorrow I’ll get things bolted together and dropped into the chassis.

Matt K.

02-14-2018, 04:57 PM

edwardb

02-14-2018, 08:06 PM

Paul - Are all of the aluminum dash pieces that you show in your photos above included in the full kit? Or have you added some of your own already? :) Your Gen 3 dash looks a little more "complete" to me than some of the Gen 2 coupe photos I've seen...

Thanks - Matt

Everything in the pictures came with the kit except the white pattern piece between the dash and the transmission tunnel.

edwardb

02-14-2018, 08:28 PM

Today I was able to get the block/bell housing/T-56 assembled and installed into the chassis. I don’t have a flywheel, clutch, or throw-out bearing installed since the block is just a temporary mockup. So that made the assembly pretty easy. Without that stuff in the way, I could confirm the input shaft length into the pilot bearing. All went into the chassis pretty easily once I removed the shifter from the T-56. I thought it might go in with it still installed, but I was wrong about that one. Did the installation myself. First time I’ve tried that. Wasn’t too hard since just a block and not the whole engine. But help to tug, push, pull at all the right times is certainly a better choice. Not too much to say except post some pics and offer some observations.

A Coyote without heads, intake, and front dress fits pretty easily.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80949&d=1518656839

As mentioned, I had to remove the shifter mid-installation. Don’t make that mistake. Take it off before dropping the engine in. Way easier. Plus as I found out, it needs to be turned around. Perfect location for the shifter. No mid-shift needed (or possible) with the T-56/Coyote combo.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80948&d=1518656831

I have the Coyote spacers in the motor mounts. You can actually see them in the upper corners of this pic. The Moroso pan is a little above the frame rails. It will be slightly lower when I get the real engine installed. My mock-up block doesn’t have the pan gasket/windage tray assembly. So the pan is slightly higher without that added thickness. Engine is sitting nice and level.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80950&d=1518656847

The QuickTime RM-8080 does extend below the frame however. You can see how much here. I’ll be trimming some/most of this off. Will affect the bottom three bolts, and in theory I guess invalidate the SFI rating. But not an issue for my use. I wouldn’t want that extra amount hanging below the frame. All seven of those bolts in this location are just holding the block plate to the bell. None are actual bolts into the block.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80951&d=1518656855

The only real issue I had was the transmission mounting plate. The picture in the assembly manual showed it upside down. Once I figured that out, found that with it mounted on top of the frame tabs, the shifter was hard against the bottom of the transmission tunnel frame. Had to trim it slightly and put below the frame tabs. Height for the T-56 in that position was perfect.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80952&d=1518656864

Test fit the kit supplied driveshaft and it’s fine. Don’t need quite that much slip joint exposed for IRS, but it still has plenty of engagement. Pinion angle is fine. All good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80953&d=1518656872

Overall bottom view of the installed drivetrain. The T-56 fit has easy clearance all around. Not at all the tight fit like the Roadster. Very nice. While I don’t want to ever have to do it, I think it would come out pretty easily without removing the engine. Clutch changes, etc. should be relatively routine. With the rear mounting plate removed, the transmission is pretty free to move around and swing out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80955&d=1518656889

A few details to wrap up, but now onward with fuel and brake lines. No big surprises.

Jim1855

02-14-2018, 11:36 PM

Paul,
Looks like it went well. Way better than the 351W install. The trans mount looks different, maybe a later design. From your photos it may be that the Coyote sits a bit further forward.
Jim

edwardb

02-15-2018, 08:06 AM

Paul,
Looks like it went well. Way better than the 351W install. The trans mount looks different, maybe a later design. From your photos it may be that the Coyote sits a bit further forward.
Jim

I was holding my breath after the problems you reported. But no issues other than the easily solved ones I mentioned. The Coyote is 1-2 inches forward compared to a small block. I know this from the Roadster builds. Not sure where the difference is, but the shifter/transmission ends up further forward.

Jeff Kleiner

02-15-2018, 08:52 AM

Great, useful info Paul. Thanks!

RE: bellhousing, yeah you're going to want to modify it. I had a roadster delivered to me recently that we couldn't get out of the trailer without raising the tongue 20+ inches because the bell was making hard contact with the trailer floor once the rear wheels started down the ramp. I can only imagine what would happen with a high speed bump or steep parking lot apron :mad:

A couple of times now I've looked at pics and seen the reflection of your floor which makes it appear that the chassis has been painted with a ghost checkered flag motif :)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80955&d=1518656889

Jeff

Higgybulin

02-15-2018, 08:58 AM

I better schedule a shop tour so I can see this build in progress! If I don't hurry I will be coming over to see a completed roadster AND a completed coupe!!!
Higgy

Jim1855

02-15-2018, 10:16 AM

Paul,

As you indicated the Coyote must sit forward on the mounts. Daryl moved his 315W forward 1-2 inches. Nice to have some confirmation and the shift towers are now in the same place.

The downside of the 315W/T-56 install in the Gen 3 Coupe is it requires significant engine mount mods. If you consider that the trans tunnel and transmission are both tapered to the back, moving the engine forward eliminates the interference.

Not sure about the trans mount but it sure didn't seem to work in Coupe #20. New mounts were made here too.

It is obvious that the Gen 3 Coupe was designed around the Coyote/Tremec package, not a bad thing. The Windsor based motors with the T-56 were not a primary consideration.

Jim

edwardb

02-15-2018, 10:48 AM

I better schedule a shop tour so I can see this build in progress! If I don't hurry I will be coming over to see a completed roadster AND a completed coupe!!!
Higgy

Not too much risk of that if you visit within the next year. Kind of like building a house. The progress is big and obvious at first. But then the changes slow down when really getting into the details.

A couple of times now I've looked at pics and seen the reflection of your floor which makes it appear that the chassis has been painted with a ghost checkered flag motif :)

Jeff

Funny. I hadn't noticed that before. Nothing mysterious going on. :o

Truthbetold18

02-15-2018, 12:08 PM

edwardb

02-15-2018, 12:48 PM

Sounds like the use of the Quicktime bellhousung is going to cause some grief. There's a ton of material to hack off. What's the rationale of using this part over the Ford Racing aluminum part that is a more perfect fit. Planning on some high revving, clutch dumping hard acceleration??? Otherwise, the Ford piece would be MORE than adequate for the job at hand.

Won't hurt the bell housing to remove the excess length on the bottom. I'll take care of it when the mock-up is out. Easy enough to do. QuickTime doesn't offer a non-SFI version bell for the T-56. For the TKO they do, and that bottom circle is the major difference. This isn't the best picture, but you can see in the picture below from my #8674 build how the non-SFI TKO version doesn't extend below the oil pan. There's only enough room for two bolts below the block. One on each end. If I trim this T-56 version flush with the oil pain it will still have more housing left than this one and two bolts on each end. Probably not SFI approved at that point, but I'm not worried about that. Still extremely robust.

For your other question, by all means use the aluminum bell if that's what you want. I like the QuickTime products even though I highly doubt I'll ever push the driveline enough that it's ever needed. I've used them on three of my builds. For this specific build, as I mentioned in my post, my understanding is the aluminum bell for the Coyote/T-56 has been discontinued. There are maybe still some out there, but seems the QuickTime bell will be the only solution going forward for this combination. For the TKO/Coyote combination, the aluminum bell is still an active part.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Coyote%20Engine/IMG_4306_zpsc0oituv9.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Coyote%20Engine/IMG_4306_zpsc0oituv9.jpg.html)Then it becomes like the non-SFI version.

Duke

02-16-2018, 02:02 PM

Won't hurt the bell housing to remove the excess length on the bottom. I'll take care of it when the mock-up is out. Easy enough to do.

Paul, do yourself a favor and cut it off. I have the same setup in my roadster and when I had the suspension set too low (prior to alignment & corner balancing) I caught mine on the lip of the driveway for the state inspectors garage. I was only doing about 2mph, but it stopped the car in it's tracks and bent it about 1/8" or so. I'm tempted to build a skid plate or cut mine down too.

edwardb

02-16-2018, 05:30 PM

Paul, do yourself a favor and cut it off. I have the same setup in my roadster and when I had the suspension set too low (prior to alignment & corner balancing) I caught mine on the lip of the driveway for the state inspectors garage. I was only doing about 2mph, but it stopped the car in it's tracks and bent it about 1/8" or so. I'm tempted to build a skid plate or cut mine down too.

Thanks for the comments. I will definitely be trimming mine. Sorry to hear what happened with yours. That's a beautiful build. Don't be dinging it up. :o

edwardb

02-27-2018, 02:57 PM

Lots going on. But the main thing is last night I finally finished the fuel and brake lines. I’ll go through that in some detail and then a few other happenings. I started using rigid stainless tubing for fuel and brake lines on my second build. I really like the final result and find the process interesting and challenging. Is it necessary or required? No. But once done should be bulletproof and last the life of the car. Plus I think it looks cool. So the Coupe gets the same treatment. Even though this is my third time, I’m far from an expert. There’s enough time between each that it takes a little practice to get back into the swing of it. I wouldn’t say using SS is hard, but it’s definitely a little tedious and takes the right material, tools and process.

The way I do it takes an especially long time (and some would say is totally redundant…) because I don’t trust myself to bend the SS tubing until I’ve made patterns that are confirmed to fit. It’s not forgiving. Once you make a bend, it’s pretty hard to go back. So I use the supplied steel brake lines to make patterns for the SS brake lines. Then I use a piece of 3/8-inch soft copper tubing from Home Depot to make patterns for the 3/8-inch SS supply and return fuel lines. Both materials allow multiple do-overs and fine tuning. When good, duplicate in SS and install. Works well and every piece went in OK. But it does take some time.

The other challenge with SS tubing is doing the usual double flares. I buy my SS tubing from InLine Tube, a well known on-line supplier of brake and fuel tubing, parts, etc. They’re local for me, so I’m able to pick it up at their place in straight pieces. Nice. No coils to straighten. The material is the proper annealed SS. But you still have to be very careful and have an exact process to make the flares. I used the Eastwood Professional flare tool, which is awesome. It makes flares in other materials like butter. But for SS, if everything isn’t just right the flare can crack. When it does, 99% of the time on the second step, and 99% of the time my own fault because I pulled too hard. You have to use a light touch on the second step and they come out perfect every time. I check them under low magnification just to be sure. I practiced a lot with scrap material and developed a pretty predicable process. Most of the time…

The brake lines are all the usual routings with SS fittings and double flares at each connection. For the fuel lines, I’m using 3/8-inch SS for both supply and return. Did the same after a lot of research on the 20th Anniversary Roadster Coyote build, and it works well. Rather than trying to flair the 3/8-inch tubing and come up with the right adapters for -6AN flex at each end, I use a very cool compression fitting. There are a couple brands. The one I use is a Ham-Let SS 316 Let-Lok Compression Fitting, Adapter, 3/8" Tube OD x 37 Degree Flare. Breeze has them and that’s where I normally get them. I’ve also found them on eBay and Amazon on occasion. I believe Forte also sells them. These are a one-time installation on the end of the tubing and are bullet proof. As I recall they’re rated for something over 1,000 PSI. So I think they’ll hold up to the fuel line pressure. Once installed, a standard -6AN fitting goes right on. Perfect.

Lots of discussion on the forum lately about regulators with the Coyote setup, and specifically using a fixed regulator by the tank versus the usual Aeromotive adjustable regulator in the engine compartment. Definitely some simplicity and cost advantage for the fixed regulator approach. The regulator is cheaper and only a single line is required to the engine compartment. For this build I chose to (again) duplicate what I did with #8674 with the adjustable regulator in the engine compartment and two lines. Note also for the Coupe it’s necessary to run the fuel and brake lines through the transmission tunnel. With the frame design, it’s not possible to run them outside the tunnel like with the Roadster. If you did, the lines would be the lowest point on the bottom where they had to get by chassis rails. Not acceptable obviously. I installed all three lines in the top DS corner of the tunnel, staying as far away from moving parts (e.g. the driveshaft) as physically possible.

With that said, here are a bunch of pictures. First brake lines, then fuel. For the pedal box, I chose to replace the kit supplied right angle fittings out of the Wilwood MC’s with Wilwood 220-0628 straight fittings. This made the tubing bends a little more to my liking, plus eliminates the issue (for me anyway…) of getting the position of the angled fittings correct without stripping something out. Ask me how I know about that. First picture is the front and rear brake line connections at the pedal box. The front circuit comes out the top corner of the footbox. The rear circuit follows the path shown in the manual over to the corner of the footbox, down a diagonal rail, and then through the transmission tunnel to the back.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81744&d=1519740987

For the front, along the top rail of the chassis and turned down to the DS wheel. Not visible in the picture, but where it exits the footbox, I put a 1-inch long double layer of dual wall shrink sleeving. Did the same thing for the rear line where it exits the footbox. Will act like a grommet next to the aluminum panel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81747&d=1519741022

Just like Mike Everson did on his build (thanks Mike!) I found the routing for the front lines at the wheels worked best on the back of the frame rails in that area. So cut semi-circles in the aluminum panels and mounted them as shown here. The DS has the tee connection to go to the PS. I ran the crossover on the top of the frame rail across.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81746&d=1519741011

Then back up on the other side. For these visible mounting clamps, I used the same ALL18320 Allstar Performance clamps with 10-32 screws and tapped holes as on previous builds. I just think they look better. All the rest (through the tunnel, in the back, etc.) are normal cushioned clamps.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81745&d=1519740997

This is the outside of the PS showing the attachment and flex line to the brake caliper. Same on both sides. For all the attachments to the frame like this plus the cushioned clamps I used 3/16-inch steel Q-rivets. From McMaster-Carr (where else?) but are available elsewhere. They’re many time stronger than the usual aluminum pop rivet and set really nice. They are a little tough to pull by hand though. I used my pneumatic riveter wherever possible.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81743&d=1519740976

For the rear circuit, as already mentioned, leaves the MC and goes down the diagonal tube where it exits the footbox. This isn’t the best picture, but this is the exact routing FF shows in the manual and their pictures are better than this. Note also this is the same exit point I'm planning for the rear harness and hydraulic line to the clutch.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81749&d=1519741039

From there, it goes down the top corner of the tunnel, and up to a tee between the rear wheels.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81750&d=1519741049

edwardb

02-27-2018, 02:59 PM

Then to the flex attachment points.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81748&d=1519741031

That’s it for brakes. For the fuel lines, I’m planning to put the adjustable regulator on the angled firewall area on the DS. So routed the lines accordingly. Here’s where they come into the engine compartment. There will be SS flex with -6AN fittings to the regulator from here. Same as at the fuel tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81751&d=1519741060

Then through the tunnel to the back. I had to take a jog around the T-56 shifter.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81752&d=1519741069

Then out the back and turned to the Trick Flow TFS-23006 fuel filter I’m using. Same (again…) as #8674.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81753&d=1519741078

Now that I have the lines installed, I can make up the flex lines to the Pro-M Racing fuel pump hangar. Already mentioned that in a previous post. Has true 3/8-inch in and out and pre-installed -AN6 connections. Perfect. The rear harness is just laying there right now. Next up is get the locations finalized and I’ll install with some padded clamps. Here’s an overall view. Feels good to get this part done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81756&d=1519741109

So on to a few other points. Several have asked about the tools I use for brake and fuel lines. Based on multiple recommendations on this forum, picked up the Eastwood Professional Flaring tool during my first build. Not cheap, but they’re regularly on sale. I highly recommend. The quality of the flares are as good as any factory ones. Often better actually. Just need to practice on SS to get the right pressure mainly for the second step.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81739&d=1519740803

For bending tools, I started out with an Eastwood triple head bender on my first build. I didn’t feel like it worked all that well, especially for SS. The handles are pretty short, so for 3/8 SS was literally almost more than I could do to bend. I’ve since settled on these three dedicated size benders. All work very well. Ridgid provides decent benders that are better IMO than the average run-of-the-mill benders. Not Swagelok quality, but a fraction of the cost. I use a Ridgid 36097 3/8-inch, Ridgid 36117 3/16-inch, and a smaller 3/16-inch bender from InLine Tube. It does an even tighter radius when that's needed. All highly recommended. Here are pics of each and the bends they make in SS.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81740&d=1519740813

edwardb

02-27-2018, 02:59 PM

Next up I’ll be working on the rear wiring harness and get it installed. I mentioned before that I added wires for the T-56 reverse solenoid and back-up lights. I ordered the required connectors to be added to the harness. Just a quick word on the T-56 reverse solenoid. This is something I haven’t seen before on the T-5 or TKO’s. Tremec added a solenoid to the T-56 that needs to be energized to open the gate and allow reverse to be selected. It’s a nice feature. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s bumped up against reverse while driving and gotten that awful grinding sound. OK, maybe I am the only one… I tested the T-56 solenoid the other day with my Power Probe and it works exactly as advertised. With power to the solenoid, makes a healthy click and the shifter slides easily over into the reverse gate. Without, it’s a hard springy stop. I’ve done some research and found several approaches for this. Some live with it and just jam it in. It is possible. Some disable the function by cutting down the spring. Tremec strongly recommends against both of these approaches. Says it adds undo wear and possibility for breakage. Some add a switch to the brake pedal and energize when the brake is pushed down. That’s OK I guess but could open reverse during regular driving while braking and shifting. Others add a switch to push for reverse. It would be cool to wire something like that into a T-handle reverse lockout on the shifter like back in the day. But don’t see any easy way to do that without some fabrication. The other way, which is what I suspect is the case for Vipers and older Vettes where this transmission was used, is to have an electronic module that senses speed and turns the solenoid on and off. There are several available and that’s what I’m planning. Ties into the speed sensor. So when stopped the solenoid is energized, then released when the car is in motion. I like it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81742&d=1519740924

Another detail I’ve decided about is the brake/clutch reservoirs. I’ve used CNC reservoirs on all builds to date and like them a lot. Durable, functional, and look good. I want to put the reservoirs in front of the DS footbox, instead of on the firewall like some have done on Coupe builds. I want to save that space, plus in front of the footbox makes the supply hoses short and direct. I'm going to route them through the unused clutch cable hole. Unfortunately, the CNC piece is just too tight there. So I’ve decided to use the Tilton 72-576 triple reservoir and just received it the other day. It’s plastic, so not as shiny as the CNC piece. But like other Tilton products, seems very high quality. I use and really like the CNC pressure cap method for brake bleeding. Found that Tilton offered just the cap, so picked up one of those. I’ll drill a hole in the top and add a Schrader valve and duplicate with the Tilton setup. The tape labels are just temporary. :o I need all the help I can get so do that kind of thing often.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81741&d=1519740886

Took my first batch of parts for powder coat last week. Should have those back pretty soon. Mainly just all the steel parts (hinges, brackets, etc.) plus the radiator tunnel and shroud. All those parts I’m doing in gloss black like the rest of the chassis. I’m thinking right now all the aluminum panels will be the silver/glimmer color like on #8674. Really like the color. Last week I ordered the Boig Motorsports upper and lower cool tubes for the Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote. They arrived a few days later and look really good. Bob is a pleasure to work with. It will be some months before I actually install them. But a nice upgrade over the standard parts plus addresses that difficult and very narrow transition at the lower radiator hose connection. My A/C system just shipped from Factory Five. Will be my first time for that kind of thing so looking forward to digging into that.

Finally, this coming weekend is the Detroit Autorama. I’ve talked to my friends at Ford Performance and will check out the Gen 3 Coyote in person for the first time. They will have one crate version installed and another on a stand. They’re still saying “summer” for anticipated release. See if I can learn more in person.

nkw8181

02-27-2018, 11:22 PM

You are giving me ideas but I don't "plan" on going backwards lol. looking good!!

edwardb

03-01-2018, 08:39 PM

I ordered the Factory Five Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote A/C – Heater – Defroster setup a couple weeks ago and today received a quite large 55 pound box. There was a lot of stuff packed inside. Just spent a few hours going through it and familiarizing myself with the parts and instructions and thought I would share because this is pretty new. The list of parts was almost three pages. Felt a little like inventory time at kit receipt. Especially since this is not anything I’ve had experience with. So many of the parts are unfamiliar to me. There’s one minor parts issue that I’m sure will be resolved. Everything was present and account for.

I mentioned this before. Because of the space frame and overall layout of the Gen 3 Coupe, there just isn’t a lot of space for heat and A/C. I had looked at a number of systems on the market, and not one of them would fit. At least not in the traditional locations. The heart of the unit, the evaporator in the cockpit, that Factory Five provided is very compact. Interestingly, it’s a Siroco brand from France. It hangs in the top of the PS footbox. I’ve seen pictures of it installed (thanks Mike, again!) but helps to see it in person. Looks like it will be out of the way and not interfere with the PS seating. The overall system itself is pretty basic. There are two outlets on the evaporator. One is split off to the dash vents. The other to the defroster vents. All run all the time. The controls are temperature, low/medium/high fan, and A/C on/off. So not exactly multi-zone automatic climate control (!!!) but pretty much what I expected and should do the job. We've never had anything but heated seats in our open top Roadsters. So a roof with heat, A/C plus heated seats will be a pretty big change.

I’m impressed with everything I received. The compressor is an actual Ford OE part and made to bolt onto the PS bottom front of the Coyote. The kit includes the mounting bolts, drive belt, etc. (Note there's still room for the KRC power steering setup above it.) Many of the parts (fittings, hoses, bulkhead plates, etc.) are Vintage Air parts. The drier, condenser and several others are Omega brand. The kit includes the proper constant flow heater control valve, a trinary switch, a nice panel with knobs and a lighted switch for the A/C, all the ducting, registers, mounting brackets, wiring, etc. The instructions, available on FF’s website, are 109 pages long (!) and are very thorough. I put some power to the fan terminals and it’s alive. Overall, I’m impressed. I won’t be installing too much for a while. But with all the parts on hand will be available for mockup as I’m working on wiring, aluminum panels, etc. The front outside corner of the PS footbox needs an access panel added.

I will need to get an A/C hose crimper as there are a number of connections to complete. Factory Five recommends the Mastercool 71550. Or maybe take them to a shop and have them done. We'll see. Here are a few pics.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81931&d=1519953296

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81930&d=1519953286

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81932&d=1519953303

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81933&d=1519953333

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81934&d=1519953342

We’re doing a winter storm warning today in SE Michigan, with 5-9 inches of snow predicted. There’s been a bunch already. Heavy wet snow that's weighing down all the trees. It was almost 60 degrees yesterday. Crazy. Supposed to warm back up tomorrow and through the weekend. Won’t be slowing me down getting to Autorama on Saturday. I’ll post some pictures of the Gen 3 Coyote afterwards.

Dlirium

03-01-2018, 10:09 PM

I ordered the Factory Five Gen 3 Coupe / Coyote A/C – Heater – Defroster...

...a nice panel with knobs and a lighted switch for the A/C...

...Won’t be slowing me down getting to Autorama on Saturday. I’ll post some pictures of the Gen 3 Coyote afterwards.

Thanks as always! I find the A/C control panel, ummmm, unattractive. I've been trying to come up with a "hidden" design - behind some sort of door where it is accessible but out of site. I figured I could put the USB and Power ports and maybe the seat heater controls back there as well. Have you thought of where this panel might go on your build?

Also, have a great time at Autorama - i know there are a bunch of us waiting for the full Gen 3 Coyote report!!

-brent

edwardb

03-01-2018, 10:21 PM

Thanks as always! I find the A/C control panel, ummmm, unattractive. I've been trying to come up with a "hidden" design - behind some sort of door where it is accessible but out of site. I figured I could put the USB and Power ports and maybe the seat heater controls back there as well. Have you thought of where this panel might go on your build?

Also, have a great time at Autorama - i know there are a bunch of us waiting for the full Gen 3 Coyote report!!

-brent

Yea, I'm not planning to use the panel as is either. I'm still working on what I'm going to do. But it will somehow be integrated into an overall design. I'm not going to just stick it on the dash as is. Probably along with other controls below the dash center.

nkw8181

03-03-2018, 11:07 AM

I didn't end up using this but still a cool option.

www.frontpanelexpress.com

edwardb

03-03-2018, 05:55 PM

I didn't end up using this but still a cool option.

www.frontpanelexpress.com

Interesting. I have a local source for custom front panels that are specifically automotive. One of the options I'm considering for a small panel below the dash. But not even close to a final decision yet.

edwardb

03-03-2018, 06:02 PM

Today I attended the 2018 Detroit Autorama at Cobo Center in downtown Detroit. Walked the entire show upper show floor and as usual lots of amazing builds. I heard from someone the number of cars was down slightly this year. But hard to tell for sure. It was pretty packed and generally the aisles were wall-to-wall people. The car hobby seems to be going quite strong. Several Cobras of various brands including FF and also several Daytonas. The hand built sports class (what I’ve been entered in the three times I exhibited) had a number of nice entries. So it will be competitive. There were massive lines waiting to get autographs from WWE wrestler Roman Reigns and Dale Earnhardt Jr. But I avoided those. Besides I didn’t bring a WWE belt or quarter panel for an autograph. (People carried those things in there…). Back on task, one of my big missions for the day was to see the Gen 3 Coyote for the first time and talk to the Ford Performance guys. Probably spent and hour or so doing that.

Here are pictures of the Gen 3 Coyote. First a walkaround. Here’s the front. Don’t notice any differences.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81992&d=1520114969

Left side. The hose connection right in the center with the plastic cap is the PCV connection. You can just barely see the fuel supply connection right above it. Also with a plastic cap. In the same general area as the previous versions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81991&d=1520114961

Rear. Don’t note any differences here either. CMCV vacuum motors as before.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81990&d=1520114951

Right side showing the new Direct Injection (DI) pump and plumbing. Looks like because of space the Coil on Plug for #3 was reconfigured. The DI pump body plus the connector are the interference concerns. More on that later.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81988&d=1520114933

Another angle of the right side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81989&d=1520114942

And then there’s the famous new cover.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81995&d=1520115066

Doesn’t look too great from that angle. It was up pretty high. Looks a little better in the Mustang mule that has the prototype Gen 3 crate installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81987&d=1520114923

Not much to say about the cover at this time. There are no coil covers for the new version. Too much going on so they just made the top cover wider. JLT Performance has shown some pictures of the new cover with custom paint. Doesn’t look too bad. The cover is basically the same width as the distance between the upper frame rails of the Gen 3 Coupe. Although it would sit above the rails. So clearance isn’t an issue. Jury is still out on this one.

edwardb

03-03-2018, 06:05 PM

So no red flags at this time except the same question as before, which is will the DI pump and related clear the Gen 3 Coupe upper frame rails? I have a Gen 2 Coyote block installed in the Coupe now as reported earlier. This helps a little but still isn’t too conclusive. The block alone looks kind of lost in the engine compartment. So gives the appearance of lots of room. But the Coyote heads are so big, it fills it to the top and then some. After looking at the completed Gen 3 Coyote, tried to come up with a way to measure where the DI pump falls. Best I could come up with was sighting from the back of the engine, the pump and connector are just under 14 inches above the top RH bell housing bolt. As in this pic. Note you can’t see the the pump in this picture. It’s eyeballed to the end of the tape measure as best I can tell.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81994&d=1520114989

Taking this dimension to the installed block in my Gen 3 build, 14 inches is exactly the available space. So as was mentioned before, it appears to be very close. But what isn't easy to tell is whether the actual potential interference would be above the frame rails, and then there wouldn’t be any interference. Or maybe there's just no interference at all. This picture is maybe the most enlightening, and gives me hope it might fit. This is looking straight down the right side from the front. Note how the pump and connector do not extend past a vertical line on the outer edge of the engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81993&d=1520114980

Looking at this picture from Mike Everson’s build of an installed Coyote in a Gen 3 Coupe, seems like it would clear. Note the aluminum cover on top is sitting loosely off to one side. Look at the frame rail itself.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81998&d=1520117237

So that’s what I have to report. I’m very interested in what others may observe from these pictures. Especially interested in some real world feedback of how much clearance there is to the RH side of the Coyote in their Gen 3 build. Also, the Ford Performance guys are still saying “summer” for the release. They said everything is done except final changes to the PCM. Also checked and they said everything is exactly the same as the Gen 2 as far as installation. Same cable layout, PDB, fuel setup, etc.

Bonus picture time. If the Gen 3 Coyote won’t fit, there’s always something like this as a plan B. If it fits in a Mustang, should fit in our builds. Saw this on display today and takes the award for the most outrageous setup at the show. Plus they got the color right. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81986&d=1520114916

Jeff Kleiner

03-03-2018, 06:51 PM

edwardb

03-03-2018, 09:45 PM

I'm sure that must be the same display engine we were looking at in December at PRI. Opinions of the batwing cover seem to be nearly unanimous. Have you happened to check with Jesper to see if he got the CAD files and modeled it in the chassis yet?

On another topic look what got left in my driveway this afternoon. Can I keep it ;) As I walked by it a few minutes ago it had me wondering---will the Coupe fit in the 14 foot version?

Jeff

Hey Jeff. Yes, Ford told me that's the same engine and Mustang they had at PRI. No, I haven't checked with Jesper yet. Need to do that. Hoping it would be obvious with a physical check. But still some doubt... Glad to see Jim made it safely. I'm not expecting the Coupe to fit into the 14 foot trailer. Not and get the rear door closed. We'll see down the road a bit. But no, you can't keep it. :(

shark92651

03-03-2018, 09:59 PM

So no red flags at this time except the same question as before, which is will the DI pump and related clear the Gen 3 Coupe upper frame rails? I have a Gen 2 Coyote block installed in the Coupe now as reported earlier. This helps a little but still isn’t too conclusive. The block alone looks kind of lost in the engine compartment. So gives the appearance of lots of room. But the Coyote heads are so big, it fills it to the top and then some. After looking at the completed Gen 3 Coyote, tried to come up with a way to measure where the DI pump falls. Best I could come up with was sighting from the back of the engine, the pump and connector are just under 14 inches above the top LH bell housing bolt. As in this pic. Note you can’t see the the pump in this picture. It’s eyeballed to the end of the tape measure as best I can tell.

Taking this dimension to the installed block in my Gen 3 build, 14 inches is exactly the available space. So as was mentioned before, it appears to be very close. But what isn't easy to tell is whether the actual potential interference would be above the frame rails, and then there wouldn’t be any interference. Or maybe there's just no interference at all. This picture is maybe the most enlightening, and gives me hope it might fit. This is looking straight down the right side from the front. Note how the pump and connector do not extend past a vertical line on the outer edge of the engine.

Looking at this picture from Mike Everson’s build of an installed Coyote in a Gen 3 Coupe, seems like it would clear. Note the aluminum cover on top is sitting loosely off to one side. Look at the frame rail itself.

So that’s what I have to report. I’m very interested it what others may observe from these pictures. Especially interested in some real world feedback of how much clearance there is to the RH side of the Coyote in their Gen 3 build. Also, the Ford Performance guys are still say “summer” for the release. They said everything is done except final changes to the PCM. Also checked and they said everything is exactly the same as the Gen 2 as far as installation. Same cable layout, PDB, fuel setup, etc.

It's kind of hard to tell from that photo from Mike's build, a photo taken a bit lower looking down the side of the motor near the rails would help quite a bit. I hope it ultimately works for your coupe build. Looks like fitment in the MK4 may be less of a concern. If anything, looks like a mod to the top of the PS footbox may be all that is required, your thoughts?

Jeff Kleiner

03-03-2018, 10:09 PM

...you can't keep it.

If the Coupe doesn't fit we may need to talk...although I can only imagine how much crow I'd have to eat for all the times I've told friends that their roadster should only go on a trailer if it's broken :(

Jeff

edwardb

03-03-2018, 10:12 PM

It's kind of hard to tell from that photo from Mike's build, a photo taken a bit lower looking down the side of the motor near the rails would help quite a bit. I hope it ultimately works for your coupe build. Looks like fitment in the MK4 may be less of a concern. If anything, looks like a mod to the top of the PS footbox may be all that is required, your thoughts?

For what I can tell and have learned, the Gen 3 Coyote would fit into a Roadster with zero mods. The area of concern is well above the PS footbox. All open space there. Just checked #8674 to confirm.

edwardb

03-05-2018, 05:10 PM

Well, big news today. After crawling all over the Gen 3 Coyote at Detroit Autorama on Saturday, measuring and studying as best I could, looking at build pictures, etc. came up with a definite maybe that it would fit into the Gen 3 Coupe. To finally try to nail this down, asked Mike Everson for more pictures of his Gen 3 Coupe build with the Coyote already installed. Also sent a note to Jesper at Factory Five to see if they've done any CAD models with the Gen 3 Coyote in the Gen 3 Coupe. I'm two for two with responses. Rather than pictures, Mike and I talked through the possible concern, how it compared to his build, available space, etc. The conclusion was the Gen 3 Coyote should fit. Thanks Mike! Literally while I was talking to Mike, received an email from Jesper also confirming it would fit, and these two awesome CAD renderings. He said it was OK to post them. Thanks Jesper! I added an arrow to the second pic where there was interference concern. Clearly looks OK.

So, the ball is back in Ford's court. Let's get this thing released. Unless availability goes completely south, going to try to make the build happen with this engine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82065&d=1520287171

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82067&d=1520288337

David Hodgkins

03-05-2018, 05:31 PM

Outstanding. I sincerely hope you don't have to wait too long for the new motor to come out. I went through the same thing, but I was waiting for the BOSS 302.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82068&d=1520289610
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82070&d=1520289633
Ford's come a long way in 10 years with their crate motors.

:)

PS: TMI?

Jeff Kleiner

03-05-2018, 06:03 PM

Exciting news Paul :) As you said, now the ball is in Ford's court.

Jeff

wareaglescott

03-06-2018, 06:29 AM

Great news Paul. Hopefully Ford will have it released just when you need it.

Straversi

03-06-2018, 09:25 AM

Clover

03-06-2018, 07:03 PM

Thanks for your work on determining if the Gen 3 Coyote will fit and all the pictures you all have provided. I am absolutely thinking of putting a Gen 3 Coyote in my coupe and have been looking for some of this information myself. It had been a tough start to the week for me but now everything is looking up. Thanks again.

edwardb

03-06-2018, 09:36 PM

Good to see that it will fit. I saw that cover at SEMA and well, you know. But the engine sits so low in the frame it looks like it would be pretty easy to fabricate your own engine surround panels. I'd look at keeping the center section of the Coyote cover and making my own panels to replace those side wings. Maybe buy a bead roller and make some panels with mesh screen, rivets....
Food for thought. I'm sure whatever you do will be great. It might just grow on me after I've seen a few installed.
Keep up the great work.
-Steve

Thanks. Actually, with the Gen 3 Coupe, the Coyote sits up a little more exposed than in the Roadster. Looks like the top cover would sit above the level of the upper frame rails. You're thinking along the same lines as I am though. I don't see using the cover as is. But some type of modified version might.

Thanks for your work on determining if the Gen 3 Coyote will fit and all the pictures you all have provided. I am absolutely thinking of putting a Gen 3 Coyote in my coupe and have been looking for some of this information myself. It had been a tough start to the week for me but now everything is looking up. Thanks again.

You're welcome. Good luck with your upcoming build.

edwardb

03-07-2018, 09:56 PM

Relatively minor updates today. Yesterday I finished installation of the A/C – Heat unit in the PS footbox. Needed a couple extra arms to hold it in place while marking the attachment locations. I used a jackstand with a stack of towels for my assistant. First time I’ve used one of those on the inside of a build. The evaporator unit has four designed attachment points with inserts into the case. But for this installation, only one can be used. The FF instructions show using self-tapping screws into the top of the plastic case for two other attachments. My belt and suspenders mindset said change those to two 10-32 machine screws with a washer and locknut inside. Both nuts were accessible through the air outlets. One easy, the other a little harder. But done and solid. I put 10-32 nutserts into the chassis at the attachment points rather than the provided self-tappers. Again, just my thing. I had a suggestion to put the unit in straight versus angled as shown in the instructions. But after mocking it up, didn’t see how that was possible. To get it as high and far back as possible, plus making all the connections accessible, looks to me like it can only go this way. But it’s OK IMO.

The instructions (available on Factory Five’s website) first steps show cutting an access area into the PS footbox. Not a big deal, but I wasn’t looking forward to that necessarily or making a cover. I was pleasantly surprised to find my sheetmetal already had the access cut and the cover made held in place with the usual shipping screws. Just hadn’t noticed that before. Maybe a running change. I didn't order the A/C - Heat option at the same time as my kit. I guess they're now putting the access on all the kits. Nice.

Couple pics of the installed unit. From the cockpit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82180&d=1520475431

Looking down into the footbox.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82179&d=1520475416

I’m not going to do anything else with this for now. Need a lot more other assembly to be finished and engine installed before running hoses, wiring, etc. I mentioned before this is a pretty simple setup with two outlets on the inside unit. One going to a pair of dash outlets. The other to the two defroster outlets. I am planning to change that up a little. Instead of pointing the two outside outlets down, I’m going to put them on the face of the dash. Then I’m going to add two additional outlets in the center of the dash. I’ll use Y-connections and add them to the defroster hose. That will add more air directly to the occupants versus having half going against the windshield. If more defroster air is needed, just close one or both of the center dash outlets. Not real high tech, but I think a little more user friendly.

Couple other things I worked on. Since I have a hydraulic clutch, won’t use the clutch cable exit in the DS footbox. So I’m going to use that for the reservoir hoses, which works out well since I’m planning to put the reservoirs in front of the DS footbox. The outlets on the Tilton triple reservoir I’m using are 5/16-inch barb, and the inlets on the Wilwood MC’s are 1/4-inch barb. Could use a reducer, but that’s just more connections. So today I tried fitting the supplied Wilwood 1/4-inch reservoir hose onto the Tilton piece. Took some heat, liquid soap, and healthy persuasion times three. But they’re on and I think it’s going to work fine. I’ll add some clamps and they’ll be good to go. Then made a small aluminum plate with holes for the three hoses with grommets and riveted onto the DS footbox front piece. I’ll have to trim the grommets a little to co-exist in this small area, but this should work. Don’t have the grommets yet. Also haven't mounted the triple reservoir yet. I want to set the tip-up nose in place and confirm the available height. I suspect I have plenty, but don't want to mess it up. While I had the footbox front piece out, also added some clearance for the front brake line that exits below the top frame tube. Then spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how that piece goes back in. It's a bit of a puzzle. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82181&d=1520476455

Finished up the rear harness. I installed the pigtails shown previously for the backup lights and reverse lockout solenoid, tested, and then wrapped everything up. Then installed into the chassis. With the fuel and brake lines on the DS of the transmission tunnel, installed it on the PS. Crossed over to the dash area on a diagonal frame piece. Added a hole to the DS sheet metal for it to come through. The same location as the rear brake line leaving the footbox. I’m planning the hydraulic line for the clutch will go through this same spot. I'll add some edge protector on the sheet metal after powder coat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82182&d=1520476720

I’ve finished laying out the trunk storage box and was planning to start working on that today. I was planning to order some aluminum sheet from Aircraft Spruce like I’ve done before. But I was told about a metal supplier, Alro, that has a retail store about 25 minutes away. By all accounts it’s a great source. So I'm going to check it out. But we managed to get another bunch of snow today, so I didn’t go anywhere. Haven’t even cleaned the driveway off yet. Being retired has its privileges. Hopefully will make it out tomorrow and get started on that. Waiting for the call that my first batch of powder coat parts is done. Then will have some more parts to install.

edwardb

03-08-2018, 05:29 PM

*** Update: The coupon code has been claimed with a couple backups. Thanks for your interest and following along.

Throwing this out there for those of you following this build. Hopefully it isn't breaking any forum rules. I have an extra 10% off Summit Racing coupon that I picked up during the Detroit Autorama this past Saturday. I have one that I'm going to use to knock some things off my shopping list. But I have a second that I'm 99% sure I won't be able to use because I believe they're one per customer. At least during the time that it's good until 4/8/2018. Plus I won't be buying anything again before then anyway.

I will send to the first PM I receive asking for it. If you include your email address I'll send a picture with the codes, etc. I would really like it to go to someone who has something major to buy. Not save a couple bucks on small stuff. It says engines and transmission excluded, and can't be combined with other offers. But everything else is apparently fair game.

GoDadGo

03-08-2018, 07:08 PM

Darn, that would have been useful back in October.
Anyway, I'm still looking, lurking and enjoying watching your car come together.

edwardb

03-12-2018, 07:22 PM

Last week I made it to the Alro Metals Outlet not too far from me, as mentioned in my last update. Mission was to get some sheet aluminum for the trunk box I’m adding plus a couple other possible things I’ll be fabricating. It’s a pretty impressive place with a lot to choose from, including a whole bunch of reasonably priced remnants of every shape, size and metal. Unfortunately, they had almost no 6061 .040 sheet aluminum remnants. They offered to cut a piece from a full sheet, but it was 50% more than buying it on-line even with the added shipping. But I looked around and found some 5052. A couple pieces of .040 and a pretty large piece of .063 for a grand total of $31.69. Easily twice as much as needed for the trunk enclosure, so plenty left for other projects. I was planning to make the enclosure out of all .040. But the slightly thicker material on the floor and folding lid on the top is probably a good thing. The guy said I would like how 5052 bends, and in my very basic Harbor Freight brake, he was right. I could definitely tell it’s a little softer than 6061. Almost “gummy” to cut. I'm not going to use it for anything structural (even though it would probably be OK) but it’s fine for this use and the price was certainly right.

This is the box I came up with. Pretty straightforward. Cut, bend, rivet. Repeat until done. It’s 23 inches long, 16 inches wide, and 5-1/2 inches deep, not including the mounting flange around the edges. That’s a couple inches wider than the similar mod installed in #8674. Fits easily into the available space above the tank in the Coupe, and the lid swings without hitting anything.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82488&d=1520894072

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82489&d=1520894080

Since this area is exposed under the rear glass hatch, decided to also make a lid. Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site. I hinged it so that it’s split in the middle. Back half can be opened by itself, or the whole thing flipped over. I’ll have a piece of edged carpet on the lids, attached only to the rear section. Still need to figure out some kind of pull or handle. The stainless piano hinges are from McMaster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82490&d=1520894087

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82491&d=1520894096

Once it’s time to install, will need to do some final trimming on the box to fit around the chassis tubes in the area and also cut a hole in the existing floor. Some relocate the chassis tubes in the Roadsters with this mod. I’ve done the mod twice on Roadsters and didn’t. They appear to be even more structural on the Gen 3 Coupe, so that isn’t anything I’m remotely considering. I’ve found using the storage area with the cross braces isn’t a big deal. Probably some will notice I didn’t put the fuel gauge sender access panel in the new box. I also won’t have one in the pump area. I don’t find dropping the tank to be a big deal, especially with a lift, so I prefer not to mess around with the access panels. In multiple seasons, have only had to drop the tank once and that was when I upgraded the pump and hanger in #8674. Nothing had actually failed. Probably shouldn’t say that out loud…

Received a few more pieces off my shopping list last week. Picked up the Tilton 60-6104 hydraulic throwout bearing I’m going to use instead of the more traditional TOB and clutch arm setup. Actually they call it a Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB). Oh good. Another acronym. It appears to be an extremely high quality piece. I’m very impressed. Hope it works as good as it looks. Checked what I could and it appears that it will fit OK. Also picked up a Moroso 63806 coolant expansion tank. Like I did with #8674, planning to plumb the cooling system the same as a Mustang versus using a T-filler and overflow tank. Ford said the plumbing is unchanged on the Gen 3 Coyote, and the Moroso tank is also now advertised for the 2018 Mustang. So should be good to go. I’m not sure where it will be mounted just yet. I’m thinking somewhere in this area. But won’t know until the real engine, intake, etc. is installed. It looks like the intake would still fit behind it, but not sure yet. Will need to figure out some mounting brackets.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82492&d=1520899117

Also received the Breeze #35317 Locking Aero Fuel Cap. Another high quality part. I've used this cap on each of my builds and like it a lot. With a little bit of trimming, fits perfectly into the LeMans cap. Seals things up and provides a solid lock. I’ve spent quite a bit of time over the last couple days planning what I want to do with the instrument panel. Starting to get a little more focused I think. Trying to come up with the right layout, switches, etc. that looks decent and belongs together. I’ll have something to share eventually.

This Saturday we’re having a club event (Great Lakes Cobra Club) here at our house. Couple years ago when #8674 was going together, invited everyone over for coffee, donuts, and sharing about the build. It was a lot of fun and had a good turnout. So we’re doing the same with the Coupe build. Looking forward to it. Once that’s done, the back half of the body is coming off and I’ll dig into drilling and fitting aluminum panels. It’s time.

Truthbetold18

03-12-2018, 07:59 PM

[QUOTE=edwardb;317071] Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site.

Keepin it real. Nice to see the shout out acknowledgement.

edwardb

03-12-2018, 08:27 PM

Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site.

Keepin it real. Nice to see the shout out acknowledgement.

I'm not positive what that's supposed to mean or why you even make a post like that. But based on previous posts from you pretty sure I know. :(

shark92651

03-12-2018, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE=edwardb;317071] Borrowed liberally from the pictures on the Dark Water Customs site.

Keepin it real. Nice to see the shout out acknowledgement.

Don't you have a bridge to get back under?

David Hodgkins

03-13-2018, 12:59 AM

And now, without further interruption, let's get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

:)

Jkviper

03-13-2018, 05:59 AM

Paul, thanks for posting all this detail. Great workmanship.

shark92651

03-13-2018, 07:24 AM

Picked up the Tilton 60-6104 hydraulic throwout bearing I’m going to use instead of the more traditional TOB and clutch arm setup. Actually they call it a Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB). Oh good. Another acronym. It appears to be an extremely high quality piece. I’m very impressed. Hope it works as good as it looks. Checked what I could and it appears that it will fit OK.

I'll be interested to see how much effort it takes to get the proper gap between the bearing and the pressure plate fingers. I'm thinking about one of these as well, appears to be a few to choose from, what led you to the Tilton?

edwardb

03-13-2018, 07:47 AM

I'll be interested to see how much effort it takes to get the proper gap between the bearing and the pressure plate fingers. I'm thinking about one of these as well, appears to be a few to choose from, what led you to the Tilton?

Just searching and reading other people's experiences, reading reviews, watching videos, etc. Plus it's made for this exact part combination and Tilton has a very good reputation for quality parts. Adjustment looks pretty easy. Matter of measuring and then turning the internal adjustment ring. This video explains it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X2JAoHhy0A. I'm sure there are other brands that would work OK as well. This just happened to be the one I chose.

shark92651

03-14-2018, 07:59 AM

For your sheet metal fabrication, which bending brake do you use and what do you cut the sheet with?

edwardb

03-14-2018, 08:29 AM

For your sheet metal fabrication, which bending brake do you use and what do you cut the sheet with?

For the brake, I use the 30-inch one from Harbor Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bending-brake-67240.html. Pretty basic. One of these days I'm going to spring for a real box brake. But this one works OK for thin materials and simple fabrication. For cutting, if it fits, I use my bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Where it doesn't fit, use a sabre saw with a metal cutting blade. Straighten and clean the edges on the stationery disk sander. Have done dozens of aluminum parts this way.

Wilder

03-16-2018, 01:32 PM

My Birth Date is 3/24/18. So Ive been re-reading every word Paul wrote. Sleepless nights of did I pick the right options and can I still make changes.
My question is when do you send your car out for Paint?
The painter who did my 55 Chevy did great job but doesn't understand the mean schedule. Can I just get the body painted and ready to put on or is there a reason not to do that?

Jeff Kleiner

03-16-2018, 01:47 PM

...Can I just get the body painted and ready to put on or is there a reason not to do that?

You don't just remove the body and paint it. There is certain amount fitting, shaping and gapping that has to be done on the chassis. Every car I do gets fully and completely mocked up before being disassembled again so I can paint it.

Jeff

M3ichael

03-16-2018, 01:49 PM

And then there’s the famous new cover.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81995&d=1520115066

Doesn’t look too great from that angle. It was up pretty high. Looks a little better in the Mustang mule that has the prototype Gen 3 crate installed.

It's like a toupee for an engine. Ford needs to design one for its crate motors.
Great updates Sir Paul (I think you've earned the title)

edwardb

03-16-2018, 01:53 PM

x2 what Jeff said. The Coupe body looks pretty good, but lots of work before it's ready to be painted. Needs to be trimmed and cleaned up. Then mounted to the chassis, nose fitted, doors fitted, side pipes fitted, etc. Then everything that attaches to the body (lights, etc.) are fitted. The (finally) back off for paint. I may be at that point by year end. But who knows. I'm taking my time and not in any particular hurry. Plus I really do have others things to do beside work on this build. :rolleyes:

edwardb

03-16-2018, 01:57 PM

And then there’s the famous new cover... It's like a toupee for an engine. Ford needs to design one for its crate motors.
Great updates Sir Paul (I think you've earned the title)

Thanks. I think. :D I expect to use the cover. Planning to anyway. But it's going to get a haircut. To use your metaphor.

edwardb

03-16-2018, 04:47 PM

My build plan includes wipers and I’m going to do washers as well. Both are required by the Michigan safety inspection. I’ve gotten away without washers on the Roadster builds thanks to sympathetic LEO’s. But not going to try again, plus maybe with this build the wipers and washers might actually be usable and necessary. But I don’t want to work through the Lucas drama for wipers again, so looked for an alternative. Found reference to a company Specialty Power Windows located in Georgia on several other forums. Seemed all good. They sell various performance car power windows and wiper setups, including a universal wiper system WWK-2. Pretty old school. You actually have to call them to order. What??? Found that Speedway sells their products, was in stock, and with a few clicks here two days later. Looked it over today, put together enough to see how it works, and have a basic plan for installing. The overall design is similar to the Lucas variety with a moving cable going through wheelboxes. But it’s quite heavy duty and seems rock solid. Configuration, direction, and amount of sweep are all adjustable. Also in my digging around, found reference to a wiper/washer switch that does everything the usual DD does. Push for washer and several wipes, variable intermittent, high, low, and park. Cool! The one I bought is a Cole Hersee 75600-04. They sell a bunch of variations. After studying the switch schematic and the wiper setup, determined this was the right one. Clipped everything together temporarily, and it all works as it’s supposed to. The wiper kit doesn’t come with arms or blades. Need to figure that out. But even once those are added, what I’m going to install will still be cheaper than the usual Lucas knock-off and I think (hope) quite a bit better.

Had to chuckle a little bit. The literature says these wipers were the Best New Product of the Year at the 1991 NSRA nationals. My first reaction was these are maybe kind of an old design. Then on second thought realized that's 30 years or so newer than the Lucas style wipers. OK, that's progress. Here are some pics.

Inside of main mechanism. Orientation of the drive wheel determines direction. Different holes to adjust the amount of sweep. The wheel boxes come with a long driveshaft that can be shortened, which I probably will need to do. Everything gets packed with grease when assembled for good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82674&d=1521233774

Motor and the Cole Hersee switch. I’ll be changing out the knob to match the others on the dash. Drive cable is in the background.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82675&d=1521233782

Expect to mount somewhere in this vicinity. Plenty of room and should link up OK with the wheelboxes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82676&d=1521233792

I mentioned before about picking up the Breeze locking gas cap and installing into the LeMans cap. Got that done the other night. I’ve shown this including a full description in my other build threads, so won't repeat the details. Cut off the LeMans connection, hog out the flange for the regular cap, and bolt in. Not cheap, but an ideal setup IMO.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82679&d=1521233871

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82680&d=1521233883

Spent more time on the interior layout. Feel like I’m about there. There are some amazing interiors out there. I’m trying to stay within the basic boundaries of the stock layout though. I’m thinking of putting together a small center switch panel. The ends will be boxed in and have the aux outlets. Only switches on the dash itself will be the ignition, headlights and horn button over by the gauges. Probably going to go keyless push button start. Turn signals will be the Russ Thompson unit with headlight low/high/flash to pass on the stalk button. Four A/C-Heat outlets on the face of the dash, and I’d really like to install a glovebox. Probably can’t be real deep because of all the hoses behind the dash, but I’m going to try. I’ll have to do some fabrication on the DS to move things over a bit to fit the outlet on that side. Brow piece is still optional at this point. I’m planning to have the panel with the gauges removable which opens the dash area for access and servicing. Thinking of finishes of vinyl, C-F and some red stitching. Along the lines of how the seats are finished. Something similar for door cards as well. Again, very preliminary but it’s a start. What do you think? At this point changes are as easy as cutting more kraft paper and printing switch images.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82677&d=1521233821

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82678&d=1521233829

My first batch of powder coat pieces are promised for early next week. Also found out today Factory Five is sending out an update package for all Gen 3 Coupe buyers. There have been some sheet metal changes and maybe more. I’m really not sure. Some have gone out already. Mine is due in the next week or two. Good customer service Factory Five.

GoDadGo

03-16-2018, 07:09 PM

Still Lurking & Learning!

Thank-O-Million For Posting!

Higgybulin

03-17-2018, 07:57 AM

Paul, looking good! If the gauges are going to be removable, maybe the brow mounting tabs can be mounted behind the dash or actually attached to the removable gauge section. That way the tabs wouldn't be visible, a little cleaner look. You've probably already thought of that though!
Higgy

Wilder

03-17-2018, 06:10 PM

Red stitching, means you pick your color? Guessing blue didn't make the cut.

edwardb

03-17-2018, 08:33 PM

Red stitching, means you pick your color? Guessing blue didn't make the cut.

Blue isn't off the table. But let's just say red is the leading candidate. Big surprise, I know.

edwardb

03-21-2018, 05:29 PM

It’s been a busy week since the last update. Still forging ahead. I was hoping to have some powder coat parts back and start installing. But haven’t gotten the call yet. But other things to talk about. I mentioned before we were going to have a Great Lakes Cobra Club event at our house. Happened last Saturday. Had a great turnout. After donuts and coffee, made it to the garage where I rambled for a while and then we just had a good time checking out the Coupe build, talking shop, and visiting with great friends. Then went to a barbeque place for lunch. Doesn’t get better than that! Hope my buddies don’t mind me posting these pictures. These are also in the public gallery on our club’s website, so should be OK here too.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82908&d=1521667877

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82909&d=1521667885

Today I removed the body for the first time. But first a few other updates. During the open house we set the nose on the chassis to see what it looked like (good to have lots of help) and I took the opportunity to measure the clearance under the area where I wanted to put the triple reservoir for brakes and clutch. Was 4+ inches, so the 3 inches I planned for them above the frame was fine. Should give good flow into the master cylinders. I was going to just tap 1/4-20 threads into the frame. But decided to use heavy duty nutserts instead. Was interesting working in that tight space. But got it done and the reservoir mounted. I mounted it with the caps level. The top frame member angles down toward the front. I think it’s going to work out well here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82919&d=1521668246

Also decided to make some progress with the wiper installation. Unlike the Roadster, the Coupe has the wiper locations molded into the body. Nice flat surface to bolt against on the outside but not on the inside. After drilling the holes centered at the right location, found it a little challenging to get the wheel box bolted in adequately. But the wiper system came with 5/8-inch long steel spacers that are intended to be welded into a steel body if necessary. Decided to use those. Shaped the ends so they fit into the contours in the underside of the wiper locations. Then spot glued with HSRF using the wheelboxes to make sure they were at the right angle. When that set up, put a pretty big filet of HSRF around each. Doesn’t look pretty, but doesn’t need to. The wheel box mounts are now rock solid and held perfectly at the proper angle.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82914&d=1521668120

Cut and flared the tubes for the cable to run in.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82917&d=1521668143

Installed where they belong.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82915&d=1521668128

The wiper motor assembly came with a “universal” mounting plate that I didn’t use as is. Instead, harvested two pieces out of it, added as outriggers using the bolts already there holding the assembly together, and mounted some rubber shock mounts I had on hand. These will bolt to the firewall. I’ll get the final position and make up the last piece of tubing when the body goes on for the final fitting. I remain very pleased with this Specialty Power Windows (SPW) wiper system. It's kind of like the Lucas style system on steroids. Everything is bigger, heavier, and very solid. I've had it wired up a couple times and it seems to work very well. Now just need to find some arms and wiper blades. But plenty of time for that.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82916&d=1521668135

edwardb

03-21-2018, 05:32 PM

Today my side windows were delivered. These are new for the Gen 3 Coupe. Similar I guess as previous ones, but I really don’t know since I haven’t seen any others. I had seen some preliminary pics, but not the final version. Consists of a powder coated metal frame, plexi insert with a sliding panel (pre-assembled BTW), mounting brackets to mount it to the door frame, rubber gasket material to mount the window into the frame, and a bunch of hardware. Even comes with an installation tool for the rubber gasket. Interesting. No instructions yet so I’m not positive how it all goes together. The packing list did show two pieces backordered. Listed as plexi rear quarter windows. I'm assuming the kit provided scoops are replaced with a flat piece? Makes sense, but I don't know for sure. I won’t be doing anything with this for a while. I’m sure there will be more information by then. This isn’t the best picture, but snapped this pic with one of the frames and windows on my work bench. Not cheap, but I’m happy with the quality.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82913&d=1521668071

So today I removed the body for the first time. I had hooks in the ceiling of my other garage, and had removing and installing the Roadster body all figured out doing it by myself. Pretty easy actually once you follow the proper sequence. I decided to try using my lift (watch too many car shows on Velocity I guess…) to take the Coupe body off. So put the chassis on wheel dollies, tied the body to the arms of the lift, and slowly lifted it off. It’s similar to the Roadster in that the sides need to pulled out to clear the undersides and door hinges. Also once it starts to move, needs to go a foot or more back to clear the back of the frame. I used towels wherever it was contacting the frame, trying not to mark up the powder coat. Took it slow and worked OK. But unfortunately, with the lift all the way up the body still didn’t clear the roll bar cage. So moved stuff around in the garage and was able to roll the chassis out of the way enough to set the body back down. I was going to use my Roadster body buck and modify as necessary. But it wasn’t even close. Would have been a complete rebuild. But in the end, decided a buck wasn’t even necessary. The sides of the body are straight and it sits flat on those with the back just slightly elevated. So I’m storing it that way with some blocks and towels under the back so there’s no pressure. It should be fine. It’s not particularly heavy. Maybe even lighter than the nose piece. But is a little bulky and floppy to move around. I decided to store it in the back of my Serpent Express trailer that’s parked outside by the garage. I don’t use the trailer too much, and it’s an easy in and out when I do. Also gave me a chance to see how the Coupe is going to fit into my 14-foot SE. Pretty much as expected, it doesn’t. Looks like it will stick out the back 6-8 inches which would keep the back door from zipping up. Still useable, but not ideal. Anyway, some pics. I've been used to seeing the chassis with the body on. Sure looks different now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82910&d=1521667936

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82911&d=1521667947

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82912&d=1521667966

Summary for me is that I was able to get the body off by myself. But 99% certain I won’t try that again. It would be really easy with a couple helpers, and that’s probably what I’ll do in the future. Next steps now will be to start locating and drilling aluminum panels.

Garry Bopp

03-21-2018, 06:33 PM

edwardb

03-21-2018, 06:43 PM

Paul,

I've seen the pics from Factory Five on the new coupe window installed on Dave's coupe (on the passenger side). I love the fact that they are easily removable but am concerned about the bulky mounting brackets on the door (that the window frame bolts onto). The rear one looks like it could hit you in the shoulder and the forward one might cause a possible issue with the outboard knee. I guess a trip up to Factory Five to check out the window frame "close up and personal" would answer my questions. Any feedback from you would be most appreciated.

Garry

Hey Garry. See, that right there shows how little I know about these windows. I didn't know the mounting brackets were exposed. Since I just took the body off, I can't easily simulate where the doors are or where the mounting brackets would fall. For me being average size, I'm guessing it won't be an issue. But for bigger/taller people, maybe. Will be interested to learn more and also see other installations.

Garry Bopp

03-23-2018, 08:57 AM

Paul,

Here are the pics that Factory Five sent me, showing the window installation:

Your thoughts?

Garry

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/theboppshop/Gen%203%20Coupe/cw1_zpsydxkb6ur.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/theboppshop/media/Gen%203%20Coupe/cw1_zpsydxkb6ur.jpg.html)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r102/theboppshop/Gen%203%20Coupe/cw2_zps3luzvzy4.jpg (http://s142.photobucket.com/user/theboppshop/media/Gen%203%20Coupe/cw2_zps3luzvzy4.jpg.html)

edwardb

03-23-2018, 10:00 AM

Paul,

Here are the pics that Factory Five sent me, showing the window installation:

Your thoughts?

Garry

Thanks for posting! Interesting. I'm not sure the mounting brackets will affect me. We're both pretty average size. The front one appears to be well above where knees would be. I think the back one will be blocked by the bolsters on the seats. The two things that occur to me right off though is I'll need to think how this is going to affect the door cards I was planning. Also can see it's a pretty good reach from the sliding opening in the window to the door handle. Some guys use poppers, but I haven't planned to. Probably still won't but will see how much of an inconvenience that might be, if at all.

Also see they still have the scoops on the rear quarter. Just received shipping notice for another shipment on my side window order. I'm assuming that's the rear quarters that were back ordered on the shipment earlier this week. Also assuming they will be flat panels. Or maybe they just block the scoops somehow? We'll see.

tcollins

03-23-2018, 10:12 AM

Summary for me is that I was able to get the body off by myself. But 99% certain I won’t try that again. It would be really easy with a couple helpers, and that’s probably what I’ll do in the future. Next steps now will be to start locating and drilling aluminum panels.[/QUOTE]

Paul, Call or text my cell (248)765-1822 anytime if you need help, especially something a quick as lifting the body on or off. I drive by your place at least twice per day!

edwardb

03-23-2018, 10:27 AM

Summary for me is that I was able to get the body off by myself. But 99% certain I won’t try that again. It would be really easy with a couple helpers, and that’s probably what I’ll do in the future. Next steps now will be to start locating and drilling aluminum panels.

Paul, Call or text my cell (248)765-1822 anytime if you need help, especially something a quick as lifting the body on or off. I drive by your place at least twice per day!

Thanks Tim. I will definitely keep that in mind. Much appreciated.

Automan

03-23-2018, 01:29 PM

RoadRacer

03-23-2018, 01:55 PM

I remain very pleased with this Specialty Power Windows (SPW) wiper system. It's kind of like the Lucas style system on steroids. Everything is bigger, heavier, and very solid. I've had it wired up a couple times and it seems to work very well. Now just need to find some arms and wiper blades. But plenty of time for that.

Thanks edwardb, this is really helpful. I like the look of this wiper system for my 33HR.

edwardb

03-23-2018, 05:29 PM

Hi, Automan out of Ontario Canada building Gen 3 #50. Did you setup your car as race or street mode for the suspension. I wont be racing mine but im temped to set it up for race because it will be much lower. Of course its the street bumps that i have to watch and driveway entrances.

What are your thoughts.

Thanks, Automan (Nelson)

I used the lower "street" holes. I don't know that the inch or so difference is "much lower" but it would make a difference I guess. For street driving, I'm not really interested in it being any lower. I've done pretty OK with the approx 4-inch ride height on the Roadster's I've driven. I'm expecting this will be the same. BTW, the biggest issue I've had isn't the frame itself but the overhang on the nose. Real easy to catch curbs or driveways. Not interested in that being even lower.

As a side note, if you (or anyone else reading this) has the dual-action Koni shock options, they go in the top hole even when putting the rest of the suspension in the "street" holes. It's noted in the instructions for the front suspension. A little hidden and easy to miss in the instructions for the rear suspension.

stack

03-24-2018, 09:40 AM

I wish they made them slide in and out like a jeep wrangler style window.

stack

Chris @ Forma

03-24-2018, 01:27 PM

A little late to the party, just came across your thread. Too much to read and not enough time available.
An alternative to using the T-56 is to use a 2015-2017 Mustang MT-82 tranny. Biggest challenge is the shifter is about a foot too far back. We recently developed a top mount shift mechanism that will be available in about a month. Here is a pic of our interior with the shifter installed on the Mustang tranny as a pic of an early prototype of the shifter mechanism that was machined and 82994829953d printed.

edwardb

03-25-2018, 06:23 PM

Started serious work on the getting all the panels fitted, drilled, etc. prior to powder coat. Including installing the trunk box fabricated and shown earlier. But first some observations. While there are some similarities to the aluminum panel layout used in the Roadster, they are of course all different parts installed in a different sequence. Before removing them, I spent a lot of time reviewing the instruction manual confirming how they are installed, overlap direction, etc. I quickly realized that panel installation is in multiple places in the manual. I ended up taking quite a bit of time searching and finding all the panel installation steps (electronic version of the manual with searching is nice), listing them in sequence, and also listing the major steps between.

What I found is that 29 aluminum pieces are installed before the body, and 24 after the body is installed. That’s very different than the Roadster, where all the panels except the splash guards and a couple pieces by the radiator can be mounted without the body installed. Explains why I had a little more trouble than I should have removing the body. Also has me re-thinking how I’m going to do heat and sound insulation. Some of the pieces that aren’t installed until after the body are the sides and rear for the hatch/trunk area and the rear cockpit corners. I’ve masked and sprayed Lizard Skin on all of my builds, and was planning to do the same for the Coupe. But that was already looking a little tough with the additional obstacles (roll cage, etc.) and now not having all the panels installed first. Has me thinking as well about maybe putting insulation on the outside of the footboxes. Something I’ve avoided on previous builds because I’m not a fan of the look. But that might be the best solution here. More thinking and planning ahead on this subject.

One other observation. For the Roadsters I’ve found the panels were installed in the shipping locations with all the overlaps the direction they were supposed to be installed. I didn’t find that to be the case here. The pictures and sequence shown in the instruction manual has a number of differences from how my kit was received. No big deal. Just an observation and something to watch.

Back to actual build progress, cut the hole in the floor piece, fit the trunk box around the frame rails, and have the floor and box cleco’d in. Happy with how it turned out. I’ll install the folding cover later after installing carpet. Next week I’ll finish the hatch/trunk area, work on the cockpit, and probably take the block and transmission back out so I can start working on the footboxes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83039&d=1522017185

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83040&d=1522017193

This is pretty minor, but after a couple tries found a shift lever I’m happy with. 6-inch long Hurst 5387201 is a good length and angle for my setup. Chrome plated steel so a nice solid piece, and wasn’t expensive. The shift ball is one that came with my TKO on the last build, so not the right shift pattern on it. I’ll need to find something similar for the T-56. I’m impressed with how easily and precisely the T-56 clicks through all six gears. I think it’s going to be a winner.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83038&d=1522017178

One last follow-up item. Received the Gen 3 side windows as described and pictured in a previous update. There was an open question about the rear quarter windows since the kit comes with a scoop for that opening. Not too useful if you’re trying to keep the elements out. I received the backordered quarter windows that go with the windows. They are designed to go on the inside of the quarter window opening. The outside scoops wouldn’t need to be removed. But the inside panels would close the opening. Maybe the previous Coupes were the same way. But this is new to me and I had gotten a question or two.

Automan

03-26-2018, 07:38 PM

I used the lower "street" holes. I don't know that the inch or so difference is "much lower" but it would make a difference I guess. For street driving, I'm not really interested in it being any lower. I've done pretty OK with the approx 4-inch ride height on the Roadster's I've driven. I'm expecting this will be the same. BTW, the biggest issue I've had isn't the frame itself but the overhang on the nose. Real easy to catch curbs or driveways. Not interested in that being even lower.

As a side note, if you (or anyone else reading this) has the dual-action Koni shock options, they go in the top hole even when putting the rest of the suspension in the "street" holes. It's noted in the instructions for the front suspension. A little hidden and easy to miss in the instructions for the rear suspension.

Thankyou, i will set mine up in street mode also. Great point on the noise rubbing!!!!!

edwardb

03-28-2018, 01:05 PM

Work on fitting and drilling panels continues. Rear hatch area almost done. Making good progress on the cockpit. Still on the same new drill bit I started with. (Probably shouldn’t say that…) Everything is fitting pretty well. Mainly just the usual minor tweaks on bends and needing to trim around welds occasionally. I’m planning to have the two front transmission covers removable. So will use countersunk rivets along the top edge of the floor pieces. That front hatch floor piece (removed in this picture, but just behind the rear cockpit wall ) is a bear. No less than four pictures in the manual showing exactly how to bend it to get in and out. Still not easy. Put some heavy duty tape on the roll bars or you’re liable to really scratch up the powder coat in the process.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83192&d=1522259370

I had this in my last build thread, but will show again. This 6-inch seamer/bender from Harbor Freight works great to adjust bends for this work. I use it a lot at this stage. https://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-jaw-straight-sheet-metal-seamer-98728.html

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83193&d=1522259378

I mentioned before about needing to get a shift ball that I liked plus had the T-56 6-speed shift pattern on it. Then I was reminded that Tremec offers them for free if you go to their website and register your new Tremec transmission. Done. They have several varieties and either SAE or metric adapters. Nice quality pieces and the price is right.

The weather is finally starting to warm up. Hopefully will be able to get #8674 out of the garage soon and get some driving in. Will cut into build time. But I’m willing to make that sacrifice. :cool:

Tuftster

03-28-2018, 02:09 PM

As always, looking great and the speed of your progress is amazing.
One drill bit to drill all those holes? Please tell me your secret, I've gone through about 5 Dewalt cobalt bits to drill half as many holes as you. What bit are you using? Are you using any cutting oil?

Clover

03-28-2018, 02:58 PM

I would also love to know what kind of drill bit you are using. Things are looking good and thanks for pointing out the 6 in seamer/bender. You have to love cheap tools that get used a lot.

I had a couple quick questions about the DA Koni shocks on your coupe. Are you able to adjust both the compression and rebound while they are on the car? If I remember right, the single adjustable ones needed to be taken off to be adjusted. Also, did you go with the standard springs from FF? The shocks I put on my daily driver are compression and rebound adjustable which allowed me to put on softer springs and improve the ride around town. When I go to the track or to AutoX, I am able to stiffen up the compression enough to make up for the softer spring. I was hoping the DA Koni's also allowed for a softer spring. Thanks.

edwardb

03-28-2018, 03:54 PM

The drill bits I use are "Aircraft Grade Super Cobalt" from http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/cobaltdrill.php. I don't know if they're any better than your off-the-shelf cobalt drills at HD or whatever. But they are decent quality and the price is right. I ordered some #30 and and #10's before the last build and still have a few left over. As I said, I probably shouldn't be talking about it. I break my share. Probably went through at least 7-8 #30's in the last build. Don't usually break the #10's. They're bigger plus just not used that much. In my experience, the number one thing that breaks them is drilling into welds. Will snap them in a heartbeat. I've been being careful to not do that. Also maybe the fact that the coupe is all square tubing helps. Not deflecting or getting off axis in round tubing like sometimes drilled on the Roadster. But mainly I'm probably just lucky, and will probably break the one I'm using later tonight. :mad: I don't use anything on the bits. I know some guys use oil or wax. Normally I don't.

Yes the DA Koni's can be adjusted without removing them. The adjusters are visible in this picture from the #8674 Roadster build. The bottom one (compression) is the screw just above the lower mounting bolt. The top one (rebound) is the horizontal slot just below the top mounting bolt. It's a wheel like piece that you can turn with a pin through the slot. I run them both at full soft. I'm nearly positive FF supplies the same springs with the DA Koni's as the standard red single action Konis. #8674 has the exact suspension components as the Coupe. I've driven it a couple thousand miles, and don't find the ride uncomfortable at all. The IRS is noticeably more comfortable than the solid axle setups I had before. Maybe the ride could be more compliant, but I'm very happy with how it is now.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_3460_zpszqgjoytm.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_3460_zpszqgjoytm.jpg.html)

edwardb

04-02-2018, 10:29 AM

Received the call late last week that my first batch of 39 powder coat parts was done. I’m expecting some updated aluminum panels from Factory Five soon. The cockpit is fitted and drilled and just a little more to do in the hatch area. Then I’ll stop and wait for the updated panels. Meanwhile, picked up the powder coated parts and worked with those for a while. These I had done in gloss black to match the chassis. Mainly all the fabbed metal parts and the radiator tunnel and shroud. I’m planning to do the second batch, all the aluminum panels, in a similar silver as the Anniversary Roadster. Like the color, it’s easy to take care of, and looks good against the gloss black.

Everything looked good. Lots of parts. I know not everything will be visible once complete. But still like to have everything coated.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83433&d=1522679945

Installed the fan shroud and fan on the radiator. Not too visible here, but the fan shroud was just slightly too tall for the mounting on the radiator. Plus it needed to be up slightly at the bottom to not interfere with the tunnel because of the angle it sits at. So before powder coat, riveted a strip along the top with a spacer between. It slips down over the top of the flange on the top of the radiator and only has bolts on the bottom. They did a good job of keeping powder coat out of the slot. It was a tight fit without any coating.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83428&d=1522679875

I won’t mount the tunnel pieces or radiator permanently until after the engine is installed. Just makes it easier to reach, plus keep from banging things up. So just a couple clecos for now to see how it looks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83429&d=1522679882

I spent some time assembling the door frames, hinges, door latches, handles, etc. Thought about cutting the doors open and installing the frames. But decided to wait until full on body work time. No need to be making fiberglass dust just yet. Plus I really want to fit the doors in the body before cutting anything. But still went ahead and temporarily put the door frames on the chassis. Everything fits and works really well. Very happy so far.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83430&d=1522679890

The hinges I had welded, shown in an earlier post, turned out really nice. The hinges and bear claw latch are rock solid. The hinges and part of the frame are exposed out of the front of the door.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83432&d=1522679908

Another builder posted a picture of the new Gen 3 windows and the mounting interfering with the door handle. So checked that out. Using the just received windows, determined where the mounting will be on the doors. Then where the instructions show to mount the inside door handle. Everything is fine. Clearly this has been sorted out. Also figured out the window brackets lower mounting bolts are intended to be through the door frame inside the door. Good. This is rough, but how things lay out. I’ll cut and drill later.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83426&d=1522679835

Another small project was to finish and install my in-tank fuel pump. I had everything I needed except for the step-down butt connectors. Received those, so finalized the assembly and installed in the fuel tank. The tank is ready for final installation. The connectors I ended up using are Molex 19164-0077. From DelCity, but available elsewhere. They’re crimp and heat shrink, and advertised specifically for harsh environments including gasoline. On #8674, I used similar connectors from West Marine, although not specifically listed for gasoline. I soaked those for a couple days and determined they were OK (and made for some interesting banter in my build thread…). But these look better. Minimum order was 10, so I had extras. I took the opportunity to practice and pull test the joints before installing them for real on the pump. Good thing. My first choice for the dies on my crimper didn’t work too well. Sorted that out and I think they came out fine. As mentioned before, this is a Pro-M Racing High Flow fuel pump hanger. Has full 3/8-inch supply and return lines and -AN6 connections. You can see in the pic how the return line goes to the bottom of the sump. Because of that, it’s a little challenging to install. The instructions show how to cut the fuel tank opening to allow it to fit in. I found you don’t have to cut it quite as much as they show. But still is necessary. That plus the usual twisting and turning to get the pump and filter through the opening and into position. So if you decide to go with this hanger, obviously best to do the trimming before putting fuel in the tank. I used a Walbro GSS340BX 255 lph fuel pump. Lots of discussion about what size pump to use with the Coyote. This is the same pump and fuel line setup as #8674, which has proven to work well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83435&d=1522680012

edwardb

04-02-2018, 10:30 AM

Last up, received my Russ Thompson turn signal setup. Have been on the waiting list for a while, but sounds like he’s got another good supply of the VW turn signal assemblies so is now filling orders. He was still proving out the exact setup for the Gen 3 Coupe. Worked with Mike Everson on his build, and then sent me several different spacers with instructions to try. Was pretty easy to get sorted out and installed. I like this top mount better than the angled bottom mount used on the Roadsters. As I understand, new Roadster kits have a similar steering column mount now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83436&d=1522680027

Was really hoping to be driving #8674 soon. Woke up Easter Sunday morning to snow. Grrr! It’s gone now, but still pretty chilly out. Come on. Meanwhile, plenty to do on the build.

Wilder

04-03-2018, 12:35 PM

I would say waiting patiently for Stewart Transporting... well we will just say waiting and rereading every post. 83493

edwardb

04-03-2018, 01:18 PM

I would say waiting patiently for Stewart Transporting... well we will just say waiting and rereading every post. 83493

Too funny. :D Your kit will look better though. Just saying.

wareaglescott

04-03-2018, 04:09 PM

edwardb

04-03-2018, 08:36 PM

Two things Paul:
1. You said "Thought about cutting the doors open and installing the frames."
I am not familiar with how these doors work. You have to cut them apart to get the frames in? Could you expand on this a bit.

2. Is it possible to post a picture of how you had to cut the fuel tank?

Thanks

Good questions. Unlike the Roadster, where the welded steel door frames are sandwiched into the door shells when they are molded, the Coupe has somewhat similar door frames that are installed inside the door shells by the builder. Maybe because the door frame and hinges extend out the front of the door shells to have the required geometry. Maybe also because the bear claw style latch and door handle/cable are inside the door. Or maybe neither of these reasons. Regardless, the instructions show cutting a hole in the front edge of the shells and the frame is slid in through this opening. It's held in place with four through bolts against the inside half. They are accessed through the center panel which is also cut out. This picture shows roughly the area shown in the instructions to remove, plus the center area to remove is visible. That center area was also visible in the picture I posted previously. Once the frame is installed, another cutout is made on the back edge for the striker to engage the latch. I was going to get the air saw out and start cutting. But then decided to wait until body mount and fitting to confirm the size and location of the cutouts before proceeding. Several Coupe builders have confirmed this approach.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83505&d=1522804649

For the tank with the Pro-M hanger, I can't show my actual tank modification because it's covered with the now installed pump assembly. But here's a picture of the page in the instructions. Shows the stock opening and then how it needs to be modified. The cuts stay inside the sealing area, so that's unaffected. As I mentioned in the post before, I didn't find it necessary to cut quite this much. Specifically the wide cut I found only needed to be about half that wide.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83506&d=1522804699

GoDadGo

04-04-2018, 06:15 AM

Paul,

As always, I enjoy watching your build progress.
I still don't think I've got what it takes to build this car so, but that's okay.
Thanks for letting us all ride along as you create your latest Masterpiece.

Steve

Chris @ Forma

04-04-2018, 06:30 AM

edwardb

04-04-2018, 07:03 AM

Not sure if you have checked but the "symmetric" car is a bit asymmetric. On one of the two doors in our build the inner door skin recess was about 1/2 to 3/4" inches longer than the other side. The frames, however, were symmetric and therefore the one of the frames required cutting out and re-welding a tube shifted by nearly an inch. Ours was the 4th or 5th production Gen 3 and FFR may have corrected this issue.

Chris

Obviously I have no way to know at this point. I will find out when I get to that point of course. I know there have been some changes. Mine is #59, and has differences even compared to others not much earlier than mine.

David Williamson

04-04-2018, 08:52 AM

Mine #16 and the door frames fit the skins fine so they must have fixed it
David W

Erik W. Treves

04-04-2018, 03:08 PM

Mine was that way as the beta... and I passed that to FFR... so this should have been corrected

edwardb

04-11-2018, 12:06 PM

Finally, almost done with getting all the aluminum panels drilled and fitted. Everything is done except a couple around the footboxes, and I’m still not sure what is coming in the update package. So, will stop until that arrives.

The instructions don’t say anything about access panels (like on the Roadster DS footbox) or leaving the footbox top(s) removeable. At least that I found. But clearly it’s necessary. On the DS, provides the usual access to the Wilwood pedal box, master cylinders, etc. On the PS, with heat and A/C, also necessary IMO. The heater hose connections would be basically inaccessible without the top open. After considering the options, and also looking at Mike Everson’s build, decided I didn’t want or need the entire top panels to be removable. So I cut them roughly in line with where the body cowl extends over them. Added a small piece on the back of each panel that slides under the fixed portion. I’ll rivet those pieces on after powder coat. I’m using 10-32 SS flange head screws for hold downs and was originally going to just tap the threads into the frame tubes. But decided after doing a couple that there were only 2-3 threads, and since these could be used somewhat frequently, went ahead and put nutserts at each location. I ground down the welds some where the covers fit which allows them to sit down a little flatter. Also added nutserts for the heater control valve which mounts on the PS cover.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83966&d=1523461293

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83963&d=1523461269

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83962&d=1523461262

Next up I worked on installing the bulkhead connectors for the A/C and heater lines going into the PS footbox. Factory Five supplies very nice Vintage Air bulkhead connectors, and the instructions are quite detailed on how to locate and install them. Unfortunately, I managed to make a giant mess of this. I started with the A/C one, and here because of how short (and stiff) the lines would be inside the footbox, the alignment is quite important. After very carefully (I thought) checking and re-checking, drilled the holes, and (you guessed it) wasn’t really very close. The angles of everything make it pretty hard to figure out the exact location. At least for me. I adjusted the holes repeatedly until the alignment was OK, and at that point the bulkhead connector no longer covered my original holes. Grrr… So made little filler plates for each side that I flush riveted in place and are sandwiched in the bulkhead connector and all was good.

Moved to the heater hoses and this time spent even longer making sure I had the right location. Checked, checked again, checked the angles, etc. Went for it. Drilled the holes, and you guessed it. Missed again. By almost the same amount. Crazy. Found the right location, made another pair of filler plates (getting good at this…) and now that one is also done. The amount of time I messed around with this is one of the many reasons I’ll never make it into the 200+ hour club for these builds like the pro builders. I actually kind of like how the filler plates make the bulkhead mounting a little more solid in the footbox walls. But wasn’t in my original plan to do that obviously. I’ll make up the hoses when everything goes back together after powder coat and insulation. But looks like this for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83964&d=1523461277

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83965&d=1523461285

I made a new transmission cover. Had enough scrap aluminum and just fits into my little Harbor Freight brake. I decided it was easier to make a new one than to patch the shifter hole that was not centered on the T-56 shifter location. I’ve had to address this somehow on every build. I personally think it would be better if Factory Five would leave these blank and let you cut the hole yourself in the right location. I also used the opportunity to adjust the width/bends just slightly for my planned upholstery wrap of the cover. Still planning to make it removeable, plus likely the one in front under the dash as well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83961&d=1523461255

Moved to the sheet metal in the hatch/trunk area. Everything there is now fitted and drilled.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83967&d=1523461301

edwardb

04-11-2018, 12:07 PM

Starting to look pretty serious. Note in this picture, the rear hatch wall, the two hatch sides, and the two cockpit sides (behind the seats) aren’t permanently installed until after the body is installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83968&d=1523461311

Two other things:

I’ve been asked why there aren’t lock nuts in the pictures of the door frames I posted before. This points out a practice that I’ve made part of my builds that I’ll share. Where parts are going to be mocked up and repeatedly installed and removed (which happens a lot), I don’t use the supplied lock nuts until final assembly. In this case, Factory Five provides some very nice nylon insert locking flange nuts. But they’ll stay in the bag until the doors go on for the last time. Lots of discussion here and elsewhere about whether these kinds of nuts should be reused, how many times, etc. I’m just cutting through that and not using them any more than necessary. I have a bin of the common size nuts used on these builds (5/16 and 3/8 mostly) and those are what I use during the build itself. They’re easy to take on and off during initial assembly and mock-up, which is another advantage. Some of these are veterans of multiple builds.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83431&d=1522679901

Finally, I have a question for other builders regarding the front cowl mounts. I checked the fit of the mounts in the cowl and I’m not sure about what I’m seeing. The mounts attach to the cowl with two bolts through the back of the running light buckets and another one on the lower part of the cowl. The mount is angled (roughly about 3 degrees is what I measured) but this doesn’t match the angle between the back of the bucket and the cowl. The result is a gap that would seem undesirable. I’m thinking for sure mount the bracket flush on the back of the light bucket. Then use a spacer or some washers on the bottom mount? I’d rather have the entire face of the mount flush against the fiberglass though. Maybe make up a wedge or build it up with glass? Thoughts? This picture hopefully illustrates what I'm talking about. The gap isn't real clear in the picture, but it's where annotated.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83972&d=1523468039

Planning to start working on the interior and fabricating my dash layout. Haven’t checked in with Ford regarding the Gen 3 Coyote for a while. Probably need to do that too.

Straversi

04-11-2018, 12:37 PM

It's not how good you are, it's how well you cover up your mistakes....

I like the bulkhead doublers. They look like they should have been there in the first place.

-Steve

Erik W. Treves

04-12-2018, 06:54 AM