Edwardb’s Gen 3 Type 65 Coyote Coupe #59 Build: 5,000 Mile Report [Archive] - Page 2

edwardb

04-15-2018, 10:08 AM

My plan for the instrument panel and interior is coming together. I’m amazed and incredibly impressed with some of the custom panels and interiors guys have come up with for the Coupe. As I’ve stated a couple times already though, I want to stay with the basic look and layout of the kit. Which is along the lines of the original. But want to clean it up and give it a little bit of a custom/sports car look. Less of a raw race car look. My plan so far is the following:

Vinyl on the dash top and front, with 1/8-inch foam padding on the front only. Dash will have all hidden mounts. (Kind of my thing I guess.)
Vinyl on the two transmission covers, with 1/8-inch foam padding, both removeable.
Vinyl on the gauge panel, mounted behind the dash. Removable also with hidden fasteners. No padding. Will add connectors to the harness as needed so the complete assembly can be taken out of the way to gain access to the wiring behind the dash.
Vinyl on the center switch panel below the dash, also no padding.
I’m NOT going to use the brow piece.
Horn button on the gauge panel, headlight switch and ignition (probably a start button) on the dash, all other switches and controls on the panel below the dash.
Russ Thompson column mounted turn signal switch (already received) with the momentary stalk button used for low/high beams and flash to pass. I'll be using an American Autowire electronic headlight module, same as the last two builds. My last one in stock and they aren't made any more. Too bad.
Details still TBD, but the switch panel will have heated seats, fog/running lights, hazards, heat and A/C controls, and the wiper/washer switch. I’m not using the FF supplied heat and A/C panel. Instead will install the provided controls in my custom panel.
Speedo button and Speedhut dimmer knob on the underside of the dash right below the speedo. What I’ve done on other builds and it works very well.
Heat and A/C outlets on the front of the dash corners (not underneath) and two added in the center, in addition to the defrost outlets.
Fabricated glovebox, as deep as I can make it and still have room for the wiring and all the ducts that are behind the dash.
LED downlights on the underside of the dash corners, on the courtesy lighting circuit (headlight knob twist).
Locations for the master disconnect, aux power, and USB power still TBD. Thinking right now the master disconnect will be under the dash but still accessible, and the two power outlets on the ends of the center switch panel. We’ll see.
Door cards with pockets. Design TBD. Would also like some kind of door pull. We’ll see about that.
Kit provided carpet everywhere else and will have floor mats made. Not aware Factory Five is offering any for this kit.

For the covering material, right now planning to use vinyl. I used leather on #8674 and like it a lot. But that was also driven by the provided leather seats, plus it’s a little more work. For this build, I’m going to also kind of follow the theme of the seats, in this case the Corbeau Sportline Evolution-X seats I selected and have shown earlier. The seats are mostly black vinyl. The usual slightly pebbly variety. I’ll find some material that matches it as closely as possible. Lots of choices there. There are several contrasting panels in a vinyl carbon fiber pattern in the seats. And then the red stitching. Corbeau sells the materials used in their seats by the yard, so I ordered a yard of the carbon fiber material. I couldn’t find anything that looked like a good match anywhere else, and didn’t want to take a chance since the pattern is pretty distinctive. For starters, I’m going to use this carbon fiber like vinyl on the gauge panel, the center switch panel, and accent panels in the door cards. Additionally, I’m going to have the red stitching in the seats duplicated along the top/front edge of the dash, the corners of the transmission covers, and also in the door cards. May looking at putting some of the carbon fiber like vinyl elsewhere (glovebox maybe?) but don’t want to overdue it. Hopefully will give an overall coordinated and similar style look.

So that’s the plan. Subject to change of course (isn’t everything?) but where I’m headed. Last night dove in and made a new panel for the gauges. It’s patterned after the kit supplied piece, but with several changes. Made from .063 thick aluminum (versus .040) so it’s a little more solid, tweaked the tach and speedo locations slightly to give the best sight lines through the steering wheel, adjusted the hole size of the smaller gauges so the adapter ring is on the back versus the front, and will be adjusting the hole size for the steering column so it fits closely around the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly. Right now I just have a slot for the steering column, but will make the final cut matched to the turn signal when I get further along. I’ll be wrapping this in vinyl as described, so the hole sizes are all slightly oversized to allow the vinyl to pull through and be glued on the back side. I used an adjustable circle cutter in my drill press to make the holes. With a little cutting oil, works pretty well. Here’s a picture of the new piece over top of the kit supplied piece. Tentatively also showing locations for LED indicators for the Coyote MIL and fan (I like an indicator showing when it’s running) and the horn button. The turn signal and high beam indicators are built into the GPS speedo. I’m going to rivet a right angle piece along the bottom edge to give a little more stiffness and will also be part of the mounting.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84093&d=1523800949

Had a nice 60 degree day last week so #8674 came out of hibernation of its first drive of the season. Other than needing a couple pounds of air in the tires, everything was perfect. Started right up and ran like a champ. Man I like that car. Can’t wait for the real driving season to start. We’re doing an ice storm today. Just crazy.

Raceral

04-17-2018, 04:02 PM

As usual... just an amazing build.

Automan

04-20-2018, 12:17 AM

Hey, just wondering if you could post a picture or two on how you assembled your accelerator pedal. I called factory 5 for some tech help. they said placement of the pedal was up to me.

edwardb

04-20-2018, 06:03 AM

Hey, just wondering if you could post a picture or two on how you assembled your accelerator pedal. I called factory 5 for some tech help. they said placement of the pedal was up to me.

Sorry, haven't gotten that far yet. Since this is a Coyote build, will be using a DBW (Drive By Wire) accelerator assembly that comes with the not yet received Coyote crate motor package. I won't have or know any details before then. I installed the Coyote DBW assembly in #8674 sort of following the Factory Five Coyote installation manual. But the Roadster mounting is different than this Coupe.

Wilder

04-20-2018, 10:24 AM

edwardb

04-20-2018, 01:01 PM

The foot well is pretty small. After talking with Mike at Fortes Parts I ordered his pedal pads http://fortesparts.com/index.php/product/pedal-pads-available-in-ac-or-v8-design/ 508 - 875 - 0016 Super helpful guy!

I've used those pedals on Roadster builds. Nice parts. Look good and fit the Wilwood pedal arms perfectly. They're only slightly narrower than the stock Wilwood pedals at the center. But the taper makes them a little easier for your feet to navigate around.

The Gen 3 Coupe footwells on both DS and PS are larger than previous Coupes and the Roadster. Not having those big 4-inch chassis tubes makes a difference. But agree they can still be tight.

David Williamson

04-20-2018, 01:53 PM

If you are using the complete kit pedal just place it far "right" so it clears the steering shaft. I have the Forte mechanical linkage, not much extra room but it fits fine.
David W

Automan

04-20-2018, 10:58 PM

Thankyou!!

edwardb

04-21-2018, 05:38 PM

This picture looks pretty similar to pictures I’ve posted before while mocking up the dash. But this has a big difference. This is with my newly fabricated gauge panel, everything placed, and dash mounting determined.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84423&d=1524345858

Here’s another view.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84424&d=1524345866

And another showing how I was able to get the Russ Thompson turn signal assembly tucked in pretty well.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84425&d=1524345874

Now for some details about the work completed to get to this point. First a disclaimer. The stock Factory Five dash setup is fine. It’s well thought out, everything fits, and provides a nice result. I just went at it with a few additional parameters, which I have to say resulted in quite a lot of extra work. It’s not for everyone and for some may not be worth it. Just want to put that out there. None of this is meant to be negative toward Factory Five. Just my own need for punishment I guess.

My first design goal, mentioned before, was to put the gauge panel behind the dash rather than mounted on the front. That actually turned out to be pretty easy. As pictured, at the top the panel slides between the back of the dash and the front of the 3/4-inch dash mounting tube. Then I have three 10-32 nutserts under the bottom edge to hold it in place. It will be pretty easy to drop the fully populated gauge panel out of the dash which gives wide access to the under dash area. Well, sort of easy. It will be necessary to unbolt the steering shaft bearing (reachable) and drop the steering wheel/turn signal assembly out of the way. Also will be necessary to remove the center switch panel that I’ll be adding. But it’s all doable from what I can see so far.

My second design goal, also mentioned before, is to have the dash mounting hidden. The ends were pretty easy. I riveted those in place with flush rivets, which will be hidden under the dash covering. Showed that before. The bigger challenge though was how to attach the dash to the 3/4-inch dash tube that spans from side-to-side. Unlike the Roadster, the dash piece is a large bent panel that includes not only the vertical dash itself but also the horizontal fill panel up to the windshield. This piece rests on the dash tube and the firewall which provides all the structural support. So however it’s attached only needs to keep it from sliding back. I stared at it for quite a while. Kept coming back to using right angle pieces attached to the back of the dash that could be screwed to the dash tube. Same as what I’ve done on Roadster builds. But couldn’t come up with locations that would be accessible to reach from behind to install/remove the screws. Then it hit me. I have four access panels on the dash already! The four heat/A-C vents. That’s way too easy. I ended up attaching three pieces of aluminum 3/4-inch angle stock to the back of the dash. Held in place with 6-32 flat head screws that will be buried under the covering. One at each end right behind the vents. And one in the center between the two vents. They’re spaced to fit tight against the underside of the dash tube. I’ll put nutserts in the dash tube (it’s pretty thin material) and be able to install/remove the screws through the vent holes. Some work needed to reach and remove the vents should it be necessary, but like the gauge panel, is doable. With the access provided with the gauge panel removed, I’m really not expecting to need to remove the dash once it’s installed. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Here are pictures of the back side of the reworked dash with the mounting points plus the newly fabricated gauge panel. As pictured before, I put the end heat/A-C vents in the front of the dash rather than through the bottom as Factory Five shows. They fit, but it’s really tight. Then added the two in the middle. Note the right angle pieces I put around the bottom of the gauge panel. That plus being made out of thicker material (.063) it’s nice and stiff. You can also see the attachment points for the gauge panel along the bottom edge.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84427&d=1524345892

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84428&d=1524345900

Next up is the glovebox. I’m planning to pretty much duplicate the method I used to make the glovebox for #8674. I’ll wrap sheet metal around some wood forms, add an aluminum back, an aluminum ring around the front, and bolt to the back of the dash opening. I’ll do a flush door also like #8674, covered with the same material as the dash. After that, will finalize the removable transmission tunnel covers and the center switch panel. I received the carbon fiber like vinyl covering from Corbeau that matches the panels in the seats. Looks like nice material. Made a couple small test panels and I think it’s going to work well and look good. I’m planning to cover the gauge panel as soon as the rest of the dash fabrication is completed.

Couple other brief updates. Received my “free” shift ball from Tremec. Found a Lokar shifter boot that I liked, and put together with the FF shifter trim ring. For the e-brake, couldn’t find a boot that seemed like it would work, so I asked FF what they used in their prototypes. They said they used the side mounted Roadster one and made it work. Which they included with the Coupe kit. So, found a Lokar trim ring that was the right size, and cut down the FF boot and glued to the bottom of the ring. It’s not perfect, but it's OK. I put 10-32 nutserts in the transmission tunnel cover in the right places and these are ready to install when the time comes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84426&d=1524345883

Finally, similar to previous builds, got out the Fiebing’s leather finishing materials and dyed the door check straps. This is another one of those little touches that makes the car look more finished IMO.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84429&d=1524345908

That’s it. I think we finally have warmer weather here to stay. I put gas conditioner in the snow blower and banished it to the back of the garage. I'm done with that. My wife and I went on a nice cruise in #8674 today. Good to be out. Local events are starting up next weekend and into May. Ready to get back at it.

Higgybulin

04-22-2018, 05:45 AM

As always, very nice work!!

David Williamson

04-22-2018, 07:26 AM

Are you planning to keep the defroster vents as well as the extra dash vents? and please share details on the extra vent parts you added
thanks
David W

edwardb

04-22-2018, 07:58 AM

Are you planning to keep the defroster vents as well as the extra dash vents? and please share details on the extra vent parts you added
thanks
David W

Yes. Still will use the defrost vents. The inside heat/A-C unit has two outlets. The instructions show routing one duct to the dash vents and the other to the defrosters. My plan is add the center dash vents to the defroster duct. The center vents will have less airflow than the outside vents and always also airflow through the defrosters. But still (I hope) provide some additional circulation. If maximum defrost is needed, the idea is just to close the center dash vents. It's all pretty basic since the heat/A-C unit itself is pretty basic. I'm trying to stay away from adding additional valves, controllers, etc. I don't expect it to work like the multi-zone automatic climate control system in our SUV. Just provide some heat and cooling which I've never had in these builds anyway. We'll see. Please we have the heated seats described previously. The additional parts required are all readily available. I bought a couple Y connectors, additional duct, and the two vents from Summit. All Vintage Air parts. The vents are Vintage Air Louver 499193 which match the ones provided by FF on the front and are in the pictures I posted. Slightly different on the back (for a thinner dash) but will work fine for this application. I couldn't find the exact ones FF supplied, but the difference doesn't matter.

jdavis500

04-22-2018, 09:54 AM

One last follow-up item. Received the Gen 3 side windows as described and pictured in a previous update. There was an open question about the rear quarter windows since the kit comes with a scoop for that opening. Not too useful if you’re trying to keep the elements out. I received the backordered quarter windows that go with the windows. They are designed to go on the inside of the quarter window opening. The outside scoops wouldn’t need to be removed. But the inside panels would close the opening. Maybe the previous Coupes were the same way. But this is new to me and I had gotten a question or two.

EdwardB,

Catching up on your thread. I went to Barrett Jackson last week in FL(Awesome!) and I saw a Gen 2 Coupe with these inner rear quarter windows installed. It was hinged and latched. Not sure if this hardware comes with the kit. My questions are:
84458
When unlatched and open, does the panel flap about under the wind pressure?
With the window latched and closed, does the seal hold against the wind pressure at speed.

I am sure this is a known amongst completed coupe owners.

By the way, I am curious if you plan to install the battery as the manual recommends.

edwardb

04-22-2018, 12:15 PM

EdwardB,

Catching up on your thread. I went to Barrett Jackson last week in FL(Awesome!) and I saw a Gen 2 Coupe with these inner rear quarter windows installed. It was hinged and latched. Not sure if this hardware comes with the kit. My questions are:
84458
When unlatched and open, does the panel flap about under the wind pressure?
With the window latched and closed, does the seal hold against the wind pressure at speed.

I am sure this is a known amongst completed coupe owners.

By the way, I am curious if you plan to install the battery as the manual recommends.

No hardware is provided for the inner windows other than screws for a fixed mount. Having them pivot is an interesting idea. At this stage I have no idea how all that will work, flap, seal, whatever. I'll get back to you in a year or so. :cool:

Yes, I'm planning to put the battery in the kit recommended location in the front right behind the radiator tunnel. I've used the Breeze front mount kit on Roadster builds, and like that location a lot. I'm going to wait until I have the actual engine mocked up though to confirm the location since there's quite a bit going on up there.

jdavis500

04-23-2018, 09:44 AM

Found the rear quarter window insert detailed on mtwarog's coupe build. They are Russ Thompson for Gen 2.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25341-Matt-s-Gen2-65-Coupe-Build-Thread/page4

Straversi

04-23-2018, 11:55 AM

Are you using aircraft style pneumatic flush rivets rather than the blind pop rivets? New tool?
-Steve

edwardb

04-23-2018, 12:39 PM

Are you using aircraft style pneumatic flush rivets rather than the blind pop rivets? New tool?
-Steve

Nope, no new tools (darn it...). Those are 1/8-inch aluminum flush-mount solid rivets from McMaster. I've used them occasionally on several builds. Nothing very high tech or complicated happening. After making the hole and countersink, put the flat side on a small anvil and carefully set the other side with a hammer. They're pretty soft and it's not hard to do. I think they're pretty strong. At least as strong as 1/8-inch aluminum pop rivets. But I don't use them for anything structural. Mainly just for smaller things that I'm fabricating and want the fastener hidden/flush on the one side. Like what I guess you're seeing on the dash and gauge panel. Works perfect for that.

edwardb

04-26-2018, 10:59 PM

Busy week so not as much shop time. With warmer weather comes yard work. But did manage to get the glovebox mostly fabricated. I used very similar materials and methods as #8674, the same depth, but a different shape. I made three internal forms out of leftover shelf stock MDF bolted together with spacers between, a back out of .040 aluminum, and a front ring out of .090 aluminum. The sides are galvanized steel duct material from Home Depot. First wrapped the sides around the forms with about a 2-inch lap at the top held for now with JB Weld. Then a bunch of pie cuts and bent over onto the back. Then more pie cuts and bent around the front ring. Right now the back and front ring are also held together at the bends with JB Weld. Once it’s installed, the front ring will be bolted through the dash, and the lap on the top will have bolts from the latch. The back isn't going anywhere. Once it was done, wasn’t too easy to get the forms out. Ended up drilling holes in them and they broke pretty easily.

Then made the cutout in the dash, drilled mounting holes, and temporarily bolted into place. Still need to countersink the screws into the face of the dash. They’ll be buried under the dash covering. The glovebox will be removed while the covering is applied, with the covered wrapped through the opening and glued onto the back of the dash. The interior of the glovebox will also be covered, and that wrapped onto the front lip. Then bolted in placed with a nice finished transition when open. The door will be two pieces of .040 aluminum wrapped with covering and sandwiched together. I’m using the same 173167 Richelieu cabinet hinges from Lowes as #8674, which were also on #7750 from Alex’s Custom Roadster. They're a little chunky, but work very well and have the perfect geometry to lift and drop the zero clearance door out of the opening. I looked at a couple other possibilities but came back to those. Also using the same VW 111857131L pull/lock as #8674. Read about that one on the forum quite some time ago, and it’s also perfect for this application. Available lots of places. This one was $20 shipped from eBay.

Here is the mostly finished glovebox installed in the dash.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85027&d=1524799275

In the chassis with a very temporarily mounted door half. When finally fitted and covered, the door will be completely flush with the face of the dash.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85029&d=1524799314

Interior checking the operation of the hinges, mounted temporarily with double back tape. As mentioned before, the mounting screws still need to be countersunk. I used maybe more screws than necessary. But once I had the hole cut, took a pretty big divot out of the dash and it was a little floppy. So using enough screws so that the glovebox puts some strength back into it. Feels solid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85028&d=1524799282

This is the VW latch that will be installed in the door. I like it because the latch is spring loaded and is just push to close. To open, press the button and pull. The lock is only needed if you actually want to lock it. Some other latches require the key all the time. This one doesn’t.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85030&d=1524799323

I saw this in the shop while making the glovebox, and got a chuckle. I seem to be in the upper range of the “how many clecos does it take” contest. What about a new category? How many clamps does it take? This is gluing the front ring on the glovebox after bending the metal over onto it. The scrap piece of MDF is to make sure it ends up flat. Maybe I got a little carried away.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85026&d=1524799266

Most of the remaining work on the glovebox will be when it’s covered and then fitted for final assembly. Next up is the center switch console. With that fabricated, my dash will be nearing completion and ready for covering.

My Gen 3 Coupe update box arrived this week from Factory Five. Contained several updated aluminum panels, one pair of new aluminum panels, and updated hinges for the hatch. The good news is none of the panels that I’ve drilled and fit were included. Which is what I expected based on some advance information. One of the pieces was mounted for shipping. But the rest were from the loose aluminum box. The four pieces are: (1) Replacement front wheel rear lower splash. New pieces are quite different. (2) Replacement upper engine bay splash guards. The ones that are mounted inside the nose. Only minor changes. (3) New pieces, not received before, to mount in the front of the rear wheel well. Covers several openings in that area. (4) Replacement front wheel inside splash panels. These are the ones that were previously mounted. No big deal. In this picture the old piece is still mounted and the new piece below. The main difference is opening up the area where the headers exit. I’ve seen this mentioned in other builds where guys have cut the piece above the opening off. Now it's official I guess.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85025&d=1524799173

The revised hatch hinges apparently allow it to open further. I did have the old ones powder coated already. Oh well. Will include the new ones in my next batch. Thanks Factory Five for making continued improvements to the Gen 3 Coupe and supplying the updated parts to those of us who’ve already taken delivery. My understanding is they shipped 60 or so of these update boxes.

Big shoutout to my buddies at the 2018 Huntington Beach Cruise-In this weekend! Some day I’ll have to make it out to that event. I grew up not too far from there. This weekend we have a big Cars and Coffee to kick off the season. This one typically has 1000+ cars and is pretty crazy. Ford Performance is one of the features of this months event. Weather looks cool but so far dry. Looking forward to getting out.

Jkviper

04-27-2018, 02:36 AM

Very nice work Paul.

wareaglescott

04-27-2018, 05:23 AM

Looks great Paul. Steps like this really take your build to the next level. People at a car show will see a glove box and think nothing of it. Amazing how much work goes into the fine details!
Hopefully that warm weather that brings yard work also brings opportunity for a drive in 8674!!

JoeAIII

04-27-2018, 11:10 AM

edwardb

04-27-2018, 11:35 AM

Paul, where is the cars and coffee and on what day? I will be all over MI this weekend and would love an opportunity to make it out if it fits my schedule.

Re: the "how many flecks" club, I was always amazed that you recommend fewer clecos than I have used with the number I see on each panel in your pictures!

The cars and coffee this weekend is at M1! Officially 8:00 am - 11:00 am. But GLCC members will be there early to park together and hopefully be on the infield area.

LOL. I'm always on the high side of the "how many clecos" club. Some guys say 10, 15, 20, etc. I probably have 100+, and sometimes run out. :p

mickent

04-27-2018, 01:36 PM

For general info: Flat head blind rivets from Pop, a Black & Decker Co, > Pop number AK 66 H, Alum 3/16 with a 3/32 steel shank (thick wall). The countersink angle is about 140°. I use a 135° drill bit. Available from Mcm-Carr.

edwardb

04-27-2018, 03:50 PM

JoeAIII

04-28-2018, 06:06 AM

That's what I was afraid of. I am in Cadillac today, will be down that way tomorrow.
Maybe next time. I grew up in metro detroit, so I always have people trying to get me to come visit.

edwardb

05-05-2018, 09:25 AM

Slow going, but made some good progress I think since the last update. My instrument panel is coming together. First up was to fabricate the center switch panel described previously. It will fit between the bottom of the dash and rest on the front transmission tunnel cover. Made a template from file folder stock (that’s what it’s for, right?) and cut out the aluminum piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85429&d=1525527053

Then with a little persuasion on the brake plus a little more since it was beyond its capability, had the shape I was looking for. Used .040 5052 aluminum. First because I had some and it’s easy to work with. Plus that front bend might be a little too much for 6061. I didn’t try to bend tabs on the seams where it joins. Just didn’t trust that I could do it accurately enough, plus added more complexity to the bending. I flush riveted corner pieces on each end later to tie it together. Not pictured here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85430&d=1525527060

Drilled holes in each end for the USB and auxiliary outlets, and mocked up under the dash. Happy with how it turned out. It will be attached to the tunnel cover and the front edge of the dash. Will hold it in place, plus give some support and solidity to the dash itself. Also in this picture is the new front transmission tunnel cover I made. Once again was faced with whether it was easier to mod the existing part or make new. I chose the latter. I wanted the center transmission cover (the one with the shifter and e-brake) to fit over a tab on the front cover. That way the center piece can be removed without removing the front one since I’m going to have them both removeable. Factory Five has it the opposite, requiring the front cover to be removed before the center cover (not easy with the switch panel and dash resting on it), and IMO should consider changing it. I could have spliced a piece on. But chose to make a whole new one. It was slightly more work but a little cleaner. The front cover will be held at the top with screws (vs. rivets) into the 2x2 frame tube and the tab at the bottom. The center cover will be held with screws through the sides. Just not an easy way to make the screws hidden like on #8674. But it will be OK.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85431&d=1525527067

Next moved to covering the gauge cluster panel. Here I’m using the sorta C-F looking vinyl that I got from Corbeau that matches panels in my seats mentioned previously. The material is a nice quality cloth backed vinyl with an added layer of open cell foam and another cloth layer. For this purpose, don’t want the added foam so pulled off the back cloth layer and scraped off the foam. Leaving just the top cloth backed vinyl. I would normally use my standard go-to DAP Weldwood Landau contact cement, but none on hand and not sure how much I’ll really need for this build. Only comes in gallons and isn't cheap. So instead used Weldwood Gel Formula contact cement. Stock item at Lowes. Doesn’t set up as quickly as the Landau, but for this purpose worked fine. After lots of gluing and cutting, got it covered. Put the gauges, lights and switches in and of course first thing had to see what it looked like all lit up. I like it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85432&d=1525527076

The two small LED’s from Watson’s Streetworks are quite a bit brighter than the three LED’s in the Speedhut speedo. The red will be the MIL from the Coyote, so I’m OK if it’s bright. If it’s on, needs to get immediate attention. The amber light is my “fan running” indicator and I’ll tone it down a bit with a resister. Easy to do when things get wired up. Speaking of wiring, just a little bit of work to do on the backside.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85433&d=1525527085

Here’s how it looks installed in the dash.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85434&d=1525527103

edwardb

05-05-2018, 09:25 AM

Wider shot showing the newly fabricated center switch panel with my simulated switches. With things finalized, need to get those ordered. The center switch panel will have the same C-F style vinyl. Everything else will be standard pebbled vinyl with some red stitching as described previously.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85435&d=1525527111

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85436&d=1525527120

Still more to do, but it’s getting there. Real happy with how it's turning out so far.

Vette1972

05-05-2018, 06:39 PM

Edwardb,

Really like the dash layout. Seems very readable positions. Nice!

Len

Bleach

05-06-2018, 11:40 PM

Hi,
I just want to say thanks for putting such detail in your build thread. I look forward to your updates and check back way too often. I hope to build one myself in a couple of years.

Brian in AK

edwardb

05-07-2018, 05:33 AM

Hi,
I just want to say thanks for putting such detail in your build thread. I look forward to your updates and check back way too often. I hope to build one myself in a couple of years.

Brian in AK

Hey Brian. Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated. I sometimes struggle with how much/too much detail. But I get a lot of comments, mostly off-line, similar to yours. Will stay the course with detail but not show tightening every screw. :p I seem to be kind of in a weekly update mode, which I enjoy doing.

Hopefully you can join the party sometime in the future.

BTHWarrior

05-07-2018, 09:37 AM

edwardb

05-07-2018, 03:02 PM

Paul, another awesome build thread! Quality build with great detail. Quick question, since you have now used two different windshield wiper set-ups. Will the wiper set up you are using on the coupe work on the roadster too?

Roy

Thanks! Having fun (again). Obviously I can't answer with 100% confidence without actually trying it, but I don't see any reason why the Specialty Power Windows wiper kit wouldn't work in a Roadster. All the parts are slightly over-sized compared to the Lucas style parts. But I think everything would still fit.

Automan

05-07-2018, 11:38 PM

Hi Edward, do we have to ask for these updated parts delivery from Factory Five? That is totally amazing that they are doing this.

thanks
Nelson

edwardb

05-08-2018, 06:44 AM

Hi Edward, do we have to ask for these updated parts delivery from Factory Five? That is totally amazing that they are doing this.

thanks
Nelson

I was told they were sending out 60 sets. 30 have already been sent. 30 were in the process as of a couple weeks ago. Mine were in the second group and after asking they sent it since I was at the point in my build where I needed the parts. As long as you're in this first 60 kits sold, you should be getting the parts. But any doubt, just call them. I'm assuming that future kit deliveries will have the updated parts from the start.

Automan

05-08-2018, 10:45 PM

I was told they were sending out 60 sets. 30 have already been sent. 30 were in the process as of a couple weeks ago. Mine were in the second group and after asking they sent it since I was at the point in my build where I needed the parts. As long as you're in this first 60 kits sold, you should be getting the parts. But any doubt, just call them. I'm assuming that future kit deliveries will have the updated parts from the start.

Thats awesome, mine was number #50.

Thankyou

edwardb

05-11-2018, 03:12 PM

Bit of a slow week on the build. Have managed to get a few smaller tasks done that were on my list but are neither very noteworthy or photogenic. In addition, spent some time mounting the A/C condenser in front of the radiator. Kind of mixed and matched a little with the parts provided in the kit, but it worked out OK. Decided it was best to have the lower hose stay inside the radiator tunnel rather than the go around the outside like the top hose. Just worked better plus avoided interference with the frame and sheet metal in that area that I mentioned in a previous update. The instructions say to go on whichever side works best. My main accomplishment was getting a driveshaft safety loop installed.

Before that, thought I would share a picture from a car show last Monday. For the last couple of years our club, Great Lakes Cobra Club, has supported a car show at a local high school technical campus. Automotive Technology is one of their programs. They have a shop with multiple lifts, bunch of great equipment, an extensive welding area, and body shop with a mixing booth and beautiful downdraft paint booth. Would be a killer place to work on our builds! Anyway, each year they invite local clubs to bring their cars and interact with the students. The date had to be rescheduled due to rain, but the new date was beautiful and sunny. Probably affected the turnout a bit, but still was good. All of the students, not just the automotive groups, are allowed to come out and check things over. I had good old #8674 there. Along with my usual car show sign, had another that I made for Autorama last year with a number of construction pictures and descriptions. That turned out to be very interesting for the students and led to some good interaction and promoting our hobby with the younger set. Here’s my Roadster between my club buddies Superformance and a brand new Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat. Obviously before the crowds arrived.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85635&d=1526067218

For the driveshaft safety loop, looked at several options and decided to get the rather generic one available at Summit, Jegs, etc. Seems solid enough and best I could tell from catalog dimensions, would fit in the Coupe chassis. So ordered it from Jegs (Summit was out of stock) and just finished the install. Easiest would have been to bolt it on from the bottom. Even though it would have been pretty minimal, just couldn’t bring myself to interrupt that nice smooth chassis bottom or having anything hanging lower than the frame. So mounted it on top. Trimmed it to fit between the cockpit floor sheet metal and installed three heavy duty 5/16-inch rivet nuts on each side. Took a little time because the location for the rivet nuts wasn’t real handy, even with all the panels removed. But it’s done and I’m satisfied it’s very rigid and strong. Hopefully it will never be needed.

Trimmed, new holes drilled, ready for installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85630&d=1526067150

Installation completed, viewed from the top.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85633&d=1526067174

From the bottom.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85631&d=1526067158

Also this week took all the aluminum panels off except for the front foot boxes. Just a few pieces left there to fit and drill. Will finish those up when I pull the engine/trans mockup out in the near future. Then everything off to powder coat.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85634&d=1526067181

This weekend we’re off for Texas to visit our youngest son and daughter-in-law. So the build will take a week or so off. Enjoying the build a bunch. But a break every once in a while is good too.

Fixit

05-11-2018, 05:07 PM

Great to hear that a HS still has an "automotive" program... Around here "Industrial Arts" were the 1st things to get cut, then the Music & Arts programs de-funded.

Having been one who's shot 2 driveshafts out from under various cars (with loops thankfully) - but usually you're dealing with 4 feet of tube, not 4 inches :)! The short driveshafts in these things almost lend themselves to a "scatterblanket/containment" device.

GoDadGo

05-11-2018, 08:34 PM

Since I can't work on mine much, it's always a pleasure to watch yours come together.
Very Nice Sir Paul, Very Nice!

Automan

05-23-2018, 09:17 PM

I received my Updated Aluminum kit!!! Awesome. Cant say enough good stuff about Factory five.

edwardb

05-25-2018, 07:22 PM

As updates goes, this one is especially minor. After a great week+ away visiting family in Texas, back home in (much cooler!) Michigan now. Had some things to do once we got back including hacking through my yard. But last couple of days started back on the Coupe build so will report in.

With all the sheet metal gone, set the gas tank back in place and made up the SS flex lines between the pump hangar and the 3/8-inch rigid SS. Used Aeroquip TFE Racing Hose and Aeroquip FBM1103 -6 AN PTFE Racing Hose Ends. I’ve used these parts several times before and assembly is pretty straightforward. I’ve never tested before installation and haven’t ever had a problem. But decided this time to up my game a little and test them after assembly. Picked up a Fragola Performance Systems 900666 AN hose pressure test kit. Pretty simple setup with a plug for one end, and fitting with a Schrader valve for the other end. With the plugs in place, put in 70 PSI of compressed air (Coyote runs at around 55 PSI) and dunked in water. No bubbles is good. All passed OK. I didn’t quite tighten one test fitting all the way, and sure enough a solid stream of bubbles when dunked. Nice peace of mind knowing they should be good when gas is added.

Just a quick editorial comment. Not real hard to notice I didn’t use any of the kit provided fuel line components. Nothing wrong with them, and many use them just fine. But my choice was to go a little different direction and what I’ve done on the last three builds. What this shows is what happens once you start down the slippery slope of changes. First up is using rigid 3/8 SS for both supply and return (kit is steel 5/16 and 1/4). Then going with the full 3/8 Pro-M pump hangar which has -6 AN fittings. Then going with the larger Trick Flow fuel filter. Pretty soon you’re all in with -AN fittings and SS flex and the rest is history. All the kit parts get left in the boxes. The final result is a very robust and (hopefully) lifetime quality fuel system that should easily handle the Coyote. So far so good with a nearly exact setup on #8674. But much of this is a personal choice, stuff I like to do, and isn’t meant as a negative toward the kit components. Similar comments could be made about my choice to also use rigid SS for the brake lines. Ok, back to the build.

Here are the installed fuel lines, and also now finally routed and anchored the rear harness with a few more padded clamps and 3/16-inch rivets. It’s offset to one side to stay clear of the trunk box shown previously.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86249&d=1527292355

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86250&d=1527292361

Also finalized the routing for the rear harness along the back of the chassis. Plenty of wire on the passenger side. Just enough on the driver’s side. Next step is hook up the lights when the body goes on.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86251&d=1527292368

Spent several hours today taking things apart getting ready to remove the mock-up engine block and transmission assembly. Then will finish fitting and drilling the last of the aluminum panels and get everything over to the powder coater. This isn’t much of a picture, but shows how the radiator needs to be out in order for the 2-ton HF hoist to reach far enough into the engine compartment. Also shows the newly installed modified front inner splash guards received in the update package from Factory Five.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86252&d=1527292376

Spent some time over the last couple weeks studying the various products available for a keyless pushbutton start setup. Decided to go with the pretty simple Digital Guard Dawg PBS-I. Ordered it direct since I wanted something other than their standard start button. So don’t have it yet. But when I do, will test and do a write-up about it plus some of the other electronic aspects of the build. It’s pretty interesting when you line it all up to see how much technology there is in a 60’s era replica when using modern stuff. More later.

Automan

05-27-2018, 09:44 AM

Automan

05-27-2018, 09:46 AM

Also, Are your riviting your panels on or welding them. Just wondering what those copper peices spaced out?

thanks
Nelson

edwardb

05-27-2018, 12:28 PM

I absolutely love reading your post!!!! learning alot.

I have a silly question for the you and the builders out there. So the kit provided a fuel pickup with a returnline. So i assume this is for fuel injection only. I am installing a 65 289 naturally aspirated. What do i do with this return? create a second vent or just plug it it up.

Nelson

Thanks. By normally aspirated I'm assuming you mean carb and mechanical fuel pump? If so, you only need one supply line from the fuel tank to the engine. The kit supplied pickup can absolutely be used. Just close off the return line at the pickup. Some go ahead and choose to install a return line in case they ever decide to go with fuel injection. Then block the line at the source.

BTW, the pickup provided with the kit isn't really for fuel injection unless you use an external pump. Most I think (myself included) do use an in-tank fuel pump for fuel injection. Then the kit piece isn't used and new one with provision for a pump is required.

Also, Are your riviting your panels on or welding them. Just wondering what those copper peices spaced out?

thanks
Nelson

No welding in my garage... I've used flush mounted solid rivets in a few places. I'm guessing that's what you're seeing. Mostly in the dash pictures. I use them sometimes where I've done some custom fabrication or want to bury the head. I set them with a small anvil and a hammer. Pretty low tech.

WIS89

05-28-2018, 07:50 AM

edwardb

05-28-2018, 10:23 AM

Paul-

Great work as always! I like the choices you are making, and appreciate the explanation that accompanies them.

You are making the coupe build look fairly effortless, which is meant as a compliment!

As with your other builds, thanks for letting us ride along with you.

Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve. Appreciate the positive and encouraging comments. You wouldn't think it was so effortless if you were watching me splitting my mock-up block from the bell housing this morning. Fought with it for quite a while until I realized I missed one of the mounting bolts. Duh... No way around it, these things are a lot of work. But it's fun and satisfying work, and the final result is a blast.

JoeAIII

05-28-2018, 08:44 PM

Paul,
Good to see your build progressing.

Any word on the 2018 coyote and control pack?

Automan

05-28-2018, 10:30 PM

Thankyou!! i will block it at the source just in case i ever go throttle body or fuel injection.

edwardb

05-29-2018, 11:07 AM

Any word on the 2018 coyote and control pack?

Word from Ford this AM: Still on track for summer 2018 release, but the latter part of the summer. Nothing more specific than that, but seems still on track to meet my build schedule. I can work with that timeframe. Between finishing all the panels and getting them powder coated and installed, my heat/sound insulation completed, more electrical, and even starting some body fitting, I have plenty to keep me busy all summer.

TheBabyBadger

05-29-2018, 12:31 PM

Spent some time over the last couple weeks studying the various products available for a keyless pushbutton start setup. Decided to go with the pretty simple Digital Guard Dawg PBS-I. Ordered it direct since I wanted something other than their standard start button. So don’t have it yet. But when I do, will test and do a write-up about it plus some of the other electronic aspects of the build. It’s pretty interesting when you line it all up to see how much technology there is in a 60’s era replica when using modern stuff. More later.

So I'm pretty sure you just spent $600 for me... THAT system is a MUST HAVE. It answers security and convenience all in one. What an AWESOME system. Love it!

BEAUTIFUL FUEL SYSTEM! Always enjoy checking out your progress, Paul! When I retire I'll have the time to dial my kits like yours! Of course... I am only getting ready to begin #1, so I guess I have some time. Absolutely amazing attention to detail!

edwardb

06-08-2018, 01:34 PM

Been a little while since an update. I’ve been working on the build, but enough other life things going on have things slowed a bit. No worries. As of today, now have had all the aluminum panels fitted, drilled, and cleco’d in place. Only remaining panels are the splash guards – two in front and two in back – that will be fitted when the body is installed. I’ll be taking all the drilled and fitted panels to the powder coater next week.

Couple words about the Gen 3 Coupe aluminum panels. I didn’t count them to confirm, but seems like there’s more than on the Roadster. Or maybe I'm just tired of drilling... In general, I would say they all fit very well. I did tweak a few bends for the best fit. Also had to trim a few places to clear welds a little better. But I’m very satisfied with everything. One observation though. Because of the space frame design, and multiple frame and angle pieces, there are a lot of places where the frame tubes go through the aluminum. There are varying sized gaps with most of them that will need to be filled to get the cockpit airtight. Similar to the Roadster, just more of them. I’ll be using a combination of caulking and aluminum tape as I’ve done before. But that’s later. Also, again because of all the frame tubes and angles, be careful laying out where you put rivets. It would be real easy to put some where they're not accessible.

I did make one new panel. In another build thread I saw where the builder suggested a fill panel for the center area below the firewall in the engine compartment. I decided to do the same thing and finished it up this morning. I can’t see any downside to covering that area up. There will be some wiring behind it, so should look a little neater. I am hedging my bets though in case there’s something I’m missing. I drilled holes for the rivets in the new panel, but not in the frame yet. I’ll do that at time of installation, assuming all is OK. I’m tentatively planning to put the Coyote PDB in this area, or on the new panel directly, TBD when the engine is installed. I’ll have the master disconnect behind the panel with the switch lever in the cockpit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86923&d=1528479649

On the passenger side footbox, installed my usual 10-32 nutserts for the access cover to the A/C evaporator and hoses.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86924&d=1528479656

These are the rest of the footbox and engine compartment panels now fitted and ready to go out for powder coat. Nothing too earth shattering here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86925&d=1528479663

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86926&d=1528479674

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86927&d=1528479687

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86928&d=1528479698

Yesterday I returned the Coyote block I borrowed for the engine/trans mockup. Now the real waiting begins for the (hopefully) Gen 3 Coyote crate. Also cleaned up the T-56 and hit it with a coat of Duplicolor engine ceramic clear. I’ve done that with my transmissions in the past and really helps to keep them neat and clean. If that’s important to you… Last week I trimmed the QuickTime bell housing and block plate. This to remove the 1-1/2 inches or so of the flange that extended below the frame as pictured in an earlier post. Have to say that bell housing material is tough. But it’s done, nice and straight and touched up. Looks like it came from the factory that way. I’ll post a picture when it’s installed. While all my panels are at the powder coater, planning to dive deeper into all the wiring. Plenty to do there.

I’m going to go off topic now. I’ll try to tread lightly, so bear with me. This is something I want to say. Hopefully it doesn't sound too much like a grumpy old grandpa. Which I am. But just the grandpa part. Most I think are aware there was an accident earlier this week with a Factory Five Roadster that resulted in the extremely unfortunate and untimely death of the driver/owner. Happened here in SE Michigan so is especially close to home. I actually drove through that immediate area running an errand in the DD yesterday. I didn’t know the gentleman, but still hits close to home in our close-knit community. My deepest and sincerest condolences to his family and friends. By all accounts he was an avid builder and supporter of our hobby. Out of respect and not having first hand knowledge, I’m not going to get into the details of what happened. But the press and police are reporting excessive speed as a contributing factor. This is a huge and sobering reminder to all of us to respect these cars for what they are. Properly built and setup, they are a blast to drive and in moderation don't have to be scary or necessarily dangerous. But we have to respect what they are at all times. A momentary lapse and the right combination of circumstances, and, well, this is what can happen. I am admittedly pretty conservative with my mostly street driving. Out of respect for the car, the law, and my own driving ability. But I'll admit I’ve had a few times that I’ve pushed a little where I shouldn’t have, and something happened I didn’t expect almost instantly. Nothing ever really bad or close to losing it. But a reminder of just how quickly things could go badly. I get a little nervous when I see threads talking about "ideal" horsepower, and the numbers go up and up. Many times by first time builders and only for street driving. Yes, the power is controlled by the driver's right foot. But the margin for error gets even smaller at these high HP's. Bottom line, unfortunately many of us act like this can't happen to us. We have to accept that it can. As the LEO said at my first build’s safety inspection, “Be careful out there.” We all need to be constantly reminded and on guard. RIP my brother.

wareaglescott

06-08-2018, 07:37 PM

Well said on the last part Paul. Thanks for taking the time to say it. A good reminder to all of us.

David Williamson

06-09-2018, 08:16 AM

Paul agree well said, have fun driving and keep the racing to the track.
do you have any pictures of the new aluminum parts that go behind the seats in the rear wheel well installed? I have the old parts installed and it looks like I will have to cut and modify them to get the new parts installed.
David W

edwardb

06-09-2018, 09:53 AM

Do you have any pictures of the new aluminum parts that go behind the seats in the rear wheel well installed? I have the old parts installed and it looks like I will have to cut and modify them to get the new parts installed.
David W

I assume you're talking about the multi-bent somewhat small pieces that are new and provided in the update kit? That are intended to fill the opening in the front of the rear wheel wells? If so, no. I've received the pieces. But I had the rest of the sheet metal already fitted and drilled and then removed along with the body when the new parts arrived. So I haven't had a chance to try them. It will probably be a couple months at least before I'm back to that point with the body mounted. I hadn't heard the new parts required any trimming of the existing parts. But then the new parts aren't mentioned in the instructions either. Maybe someone else has gotten that far and can show us some pics.

David Williamson

06-10-2018, 02:02 PM

yes those are the ones. My aluminum is mostly mounted, just have to get the new front spash shields powder coated. Maybe a call to FFR next week is the answer.
David W

edwardb

06-11-2018, 09:36 AM

As more of the details of this build are coming together, I’m finding it fascinating to note how much modern electronic content it has. Certainly, a far cry from the 50+ years ago these cars started from. Some of it by choice. But some of it just representative of more current automotive practices. I thought it might be interesting to capture some of this in a post. I’ve spent most of my career in and around the automotive industry, and it’s especially interesting, at least for me, to note how I’ve had personal brushes with some of this along the way.

LED Lighting. I already did a post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Panel-Fitting-and-Drilling-Done&p=311486&viewfull=1#post311486) about this, so won’t repeat it. But the build will have all LED lighting, including headlights, fog lights, all the marker lights, interior lights, etc. It’s hard to beat the excellent light output, low current draw, and longevity of LED’s. Other than the higher up front cost, no downside in my opinion. It’s typically necessary to change out the two flashers in the fuse panel for solid state versions, which I'm doing. Other than that, everything else works with the existing wiring, switches, etc. Did most of the same on #8674, and I like it a lot. Invention of LED’s is attributed to a GE scientist in the 60’s. So they’re about the same age as the cars we’re replicating.

Instrument Cluster. Many are using GPS speedo’s these days, and this build is no different. I have the Roadster Speedhut GPS speedo version in #8674, and I’ve been happy with it. GPS is fascinating, from its origins as a U.S. military system in the 80’s, to now used on everything from cell phones to pet trackers and who knows what else. I think most are pretty familiar with it, so won’t go any further other than to say GPS navigation in our cars is a marriage saver for me. But that’s a little off topic. Something else I find personally a little more interesting with this instrument cluster is the technology behind the gauges themselves. For decades, starting with the amp gauge in the original Ford Model T, gauges have been a mixture of coils, gears, bimetal strips, capillary tubes, and I’m sure more. Some of that is still around, but nearly all automotive gauges today are totally electronic with the needles swung by stepper motors. Including these. And a lot of fancy electronic circuits behind sensing whatever needs to be sensed and commanding the needles to move. Stepper motors were invented many years ago, but were one of many advancements from the space program. Apparently, carbon brushes don’t do well in space. Found their way into the emerging computer industry in disk drives, printers, etc. Then found their way into automotive with instrument clusters being just one of the applications. I happened to work for VDO at the time they were making them for Saturn. One of the very early users of all electronic instruments. In its early days, Saturn did a lot of things that were outside “normal” GM practices of the time, and this was one of them. The instrument cluster plant was in Winchester, Virginia, and later moved to Mexico. Spent a lot of time at both. Still a huge supplier to just about every car brand now as part of Continental. If you peel back the instrument panel in a modern car you’ll find the cluster is typically a single circuit board with everything surface mounted including the miniature stepper motors. Pretty cool stuff.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85432&d=1525527076

Coyote Crate Engine. Nearly everything on these engines is standard these days. Multi-port EFI, variable cams, PCM control, distributorless ignition (DIS) with electronic cam and crank sensors, O2 sensors, stepper motor throttle body with drive by wire, in-tank fuel pump, and more I’m not thinking of at the moment. I worked at the Philips plant in Indiana where DIS was invented and first manufactured. Wasn’t separate coil-on-plug at the time. But the concept was the same. Was originally introduced on the Buick 3800 V-6 in the 80’s. GM made millions of them, and so did we until the patent ran out. Also made them for Harley Davidson and Outboard Marine. Now DIS is pretty much standard for automotive. Haven’t seen a distributor on a modern engine for a long time. VDO, mentioned earlier, was one of the early pioneers of the in-tank fuel pumps. Still making them today. Spent lots of time at that plant in Mexico. Also worked at plants that made stepper motor throttle bodies, drive by wire pedals, fuel rails and injectors, and the current Gen 2 Coyote PCM. Small world.

Keyless Pushbutton Start. Nothing too earthshaking here, and no personal connections this time. But as mentioned before, decided to do keyless pushbutton start on this build using the PBS-I system from Digital Guard Dawg. They were out of stock when I initially ordered. But did finally receive the system late last week. I very carefully wired it all up on the bench just to confirm it works and exactly like I thought it would. It does. I put a light on each of the outputs (Acc 1, Acc 2, Ignition, and Start), hooked up to a power supply, and put it through its paces. It works like the DD style pushbutton start in our Dodge Durango, with the only exception that the brake has to be pushed to turn the engine off. Most DD’s are automatic transmission, and the pushbutton start won’t turn off unless in park. So for a manual shift car, this makes sense I guess. Installation should be easy enough. This version is just a single module. Other than needing power and a wire to the brake light switch, it wires just like the ignition switch and exactly duplicates the ignition switch function. Should be an easy plug and play including with the Coyote. Popped the cover off the module and took a look. I do stuff like that. Nice clean and well made circuit board. Has three large 60 amp relays. All good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87170&d=1528726039

Headlight Control Module. One of the not so fun parts of these builds, IMO, is getting a DD quality low/high beam headlight setup including flash to pass which is also pretty standard on DD’s. Usually requires a couple relays, one of which has to be a latching type (which I’ve not had good luck with) and somewhat tedious wiring. During my second build (Roadster #7750) a few years ago, American Autowire introduced an electronic module that provided these functions. Really easy to wire and was seamless. I had very good success with it. Others on the forum used it, but a couple had some issues. Turns out users elsewhere were having problems too. American Autowire did some work, released a couple updates, and claimed the issue was interference with analog (not the newer digital versions) of MSD ignition boxes. The problems were apparently never resolved to their satisfaction, so American Autowire took it off the market. Since they worked fine for me, several years ago saw a new one on eBay and grabbed it as a spare. Then had a chance to get another, so got that one too. I put one of them in #8674, and it’s working perfectly. So with one left, will put it in the Coupe. I guess that means I can’t do any more builds since I’m out of headlight control modules. :(

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87171&d=1528726053

T-56 Reverse Lockout Module. Found out after buying the 6-speed Tremec T-56 transmission I’m using in the Coupe that it has a solenoid controlled reverse gear lockout. As one who has accidentally made a few grinding sounds with the TKO going towards reverse while moving forward, I like this addition. Doing some research, I found there are several ways this can be dealt with. Some just muscle it into reverse against the solenoid. Others cut the spring in the solenoid to make it push in more easily. Both approaches strongly discouraged by Tremec. Obviously, better to use the solenoid as intended. Some add a pushbutton to power it manually when needed. Others wire a switch to the brake pedal and power it when the brake is pushed down. But the elegant way is with yet another electronic module that senses speed, and when stopped energizes the solenoid so that reverse is available. Once the car is back in motion, reverse is locked out. So I picked up one of those modules, as pictured. Also tested this on the bench with a light and the kit provided speed sensor in a drill. Works as advertised. With the speed sensor stopped, the light goes on, simulating powering the solenoid. Start the drill motor, simulating vehicle movement, and the light switches off. Lockout happening. I like it. I’ll use the built-in speed sensor in the T-56 and the speed sensor wires in the RF harness. But only for the lock-out module since the GPS speedo doesn’t need anything else.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87172&d=1528726068

Heater Control Valve. Finally, the heater control valve supplied in the FF Gen 3 Coupe A/C-Heater system also uses a control module and a motor on the valve itself.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87173&d=1528726080

OK, back to the build. This week all the sheet metal is going to powder coat. Until it comes back, going to work on wiring including how much of this stuff will be installed.

Wilder

06-11-2018, 09:21 PM

Paul
As always your attention to detail is amazing. Since I run Dakota Digital in my 55 Belair with GPS speedo’s and TPS I wanted the same for my Daytona. I special order a set with TPS and a 200mph speedo (I did get an Edelbrock Supercharger Coyote). I will let you know how it works in 2 month once running.

edwardb

06-12-2018, 05:04 PM

Yesterday I removed all the remaining aluminum panels from the chassis. Spent a couple hours getting them all cleaned up and burrs and sharp edges removed. Today dropped them off at the powder coater. All 50 pieces. My main contact wasn't there, so don't have an estimate on the time. Usually it takes a couple weeks. We'll see. I'm doing them in a dark silver/grey satin color. Same thing I used on #8674 that pretty closely matched the glimmer color Factory Five put on the 20th Anniversary chassis. Like the color and like how easy it is to keep clean. Should contrast nicely with the gloss black everywhere else. The chassis looks a little naked now. (Can I say that??) I made a quick temporary brace for the dash that holds it at the same level as the firewall. Planning to work on wiring and the A/C - Heat installation while I'm waiting for the panels to come back. I'm having some custom rocker switches made for the center switch panel I've shown previously. Switches for fog lights, hazards, and A/C. Got the proofs yesterday and they look good. Using only icons. I'll post some pics and more details when I get them.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87237&d=1528840494

CaptGCCS

06-19-2018, 01:23 PM

edwardb

06-19-2018, 06:37 PM

Edwardb, that every one calls Paul... sir.. You seem to have the radiator that I do. When I fit it inplace, it looks like it would be a bear to get the a hose on when the end of the radiator dumps into the square tube by the sway bar. In my complete kit I have a flex SS HOSE it says to cut to length but I dont see where it can go... I realize your panels are gone and I read and looked at your mock up and that Coupe walk around but nothing touches on the fact that the radiator dumps the welded pipe down to the center of the engine compartment where there is frame in the way... the roadster was alot less painful...

The kit provided SS flex radiator hose is for the top hose, not the bottom. A flexible rubber hose should have come with your kit intended for the bottom hose. The radiator provided in the kit is the same one as also now used in the Roadster. The angled bottom hose connection is a nice improvement for the Roadster compared to the previous version's straight connection. But makes things a little "interesting" for the Gen 3 Coupe. The available space to get the angled bottom hose through the frame is limited, to say the least. Further complicated if you have the front sway bar.

I'm not positive I have a solution because I haven't completely assembled everything yet. But I'm doing three things mentioned I think previously in the build thread: (1) Moved the radiator as far as possible to the driver's (left) side. Side note this also makes more room on the other side for the A/C condenser connections, if you're doing A/C. (2) Bent the upper tab on the driver's (left) side bottom radiator mount toward the outside which allows the radiator to go over the maximum amount (point #1). (3) I’ve purchased and am installing the cool tubes from Boig Motorsports rather than the upper and lower kit provided radiator hoses. The lower hose is specifically bent, and has a rubber connector, to work in this installation. I’m aware of a couple other builds that have used these parts and they were able to make the connection. Tight, but got it done. Bob Boig promised me he'd do whatever was necessary to make them work if I have any trouble.

As far as my screen name – Edward is my middle name, B the first initial of my last name. EdwardB has been my screen name on this and the other forum since I showed up here. Previously was my screen name for many years (more than I want to say…) when I was active on R/C forums, other websites, email, eBay, etc. So kind of my thing I guess. But Paul is my first name and I usually answer to that. :p Not a big secret.

Bob Brandle

06-23-2018, 01:30 PM

edwardb

06-23-2018, 09:37 PM

Paul,
I continue to be fascinated and educated on your current Gen 3 Coupe build, after also reading thru your Roadster builds. Thank You so much!!
Last Saturday, I placed my order for a FFR Gen 3 Coupe and, if you don't mind, I intend to follow many of your equipment and technique choices and advisements. I'll of course add in some of my own custom touches and choices, but that's where the FFR kits and subsequent builds "allow" such owner creativity. I'll soon create my own Forum Build Log, under "Bob's Arizona Gen 3 Coupe Build" where you'll see some of my relevant background and plans for my Gen 3 Coupe.
Bob

Awesome! Thanks. And congratulations on your kit order. Wrapping up attendance at the London Cobra Show this weekend and had a chance to study a couple completed Gen 3 Coupes in some detail. The early Factory Five prototype, which I've seen a couple times before, and Erik Treves' incredible build for the first time. I'm ready to get back home and work on mine, with some renewed enthusiasm. Bunch of people have asked whether it will be here next year. I'm not setting any deadlines. We'll see.

edwardb

06-28-2018, 05:30 PM

It’s been a little while since the last update. 4+ days out of the schedule to attend the London Cobra Show. Pouring rain on Thursday, including flash flood warnings, and a not-too-great weather forecast for the following days seemed to affect the attendance. Haven’t seen any actual numbers. Friday had some spotty rain in the area, but nothing like predicted. We didn’t go on any of the cruises, but nothing was cancelled from what I understand. We hung around and visited friends and took a private cruise. Saturday, the big day, was sunny most of the time with just a couple of really minor sprinkles around midday. The parade into town was a blast as usual. I was asked to be in the Factory Five booth along with some other customers since Dave was there by himself with just one car. Everyone else was at Barrett-Jackson in Connecticut. It was different than previous London shows for me, but I enjoyed meeting and talking to lots of people. Was able to spend some time looking (again) at the Gen 3 Coupe Dave brought. Also checked out Erik Treves' awsome double turbo build. Good old #8674 is the lead picture in the show report Factory Five just posted. Another great time, and I’d encourage everyone to consider attending.

Back to the Coupe build… I’m still waiting for all my panels to be finished at the powder coater. Promised “maybe” for this week and “for sure” next week. I’m guessing it will be next week. Hope so anyway. Meanwhile, decided to start on body work. Following the same process I’ve used with the Roadster builds. I’ll get the body all cleaned up, mounted, everything fitting and gapped, then deliver for paint when it’s time. It’s dirty messy work so really prefer to do it outside on the driveway. First half of the day is cooler and in the shade, so have spent several mornings making dust. Nearly have the main part of the body done, then will work on the nose. Work so far has been to straighten all the edges, get the flanges around the firewall, windshield, doors and hatch straight and parallel. I knocked the top off the parting lines all around just to keep from hurting myself on them. I’ll leave the rest to the pros. In general, I’m pleased with the body so far. I did find a little clay in places in the parting lines, so dug that out. There’s a couple spots that need some HSRF repair, but nothing major at all. The areas around the side quarter windows will need the most work. Obviously I’ll learn a lot more when it’s time to start fitting everything to the chassis. Hope to finish this stage with a couple more morning sessions.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87963&d=1530223484

Before we left for London, I did start tearing into the wiring. First order of business was the Ron Francis main harness. With the fuse panel in place, started looking at what it was going to take to get everything routed the way I wanted. Didn’t take long and I had the wrapping off quite a bit of it. Removed the Hot Rod specific harness branch and a couple other unused wires. Then change the routing and angles so the front harness and brake pedals wires are properly oriented. With that progress, stopped and did a spreadsheet plan for all the circuits and how I’m planning to connect everything. Also mocked up the hoses for the HVAC connections so I could see what space I have to work with. It’s going to be tight, but I think it’s going to fit. But I’ve decided I’m not going to go any further until I have the Coyote harness. Somehow that all needs to fit and be integrated as well. So I’ve stopped for now. Snapped this pic. This is definitely the “before” picture with everything just stuffed in there. It will look a lot different when done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87960&d=1530223413

This week I received the three custom switches for the switch panel. Talked about before. They’re rocker switches for the fog lights, hazards, and A/C on/off. They have laser etched icons, and LED indicators. I’ll have the LED’s under the icons on the dash lighting circuit. The other LED’s light when pushed on. The literature says they’re rated for 15 amps at 12 volts. But they’re marked 20 amps at 12 volts. Either way, will easily handle the three circuits without relays. These are from New Vintage USA, a local company here in SE Michigan. They have a lot of interesting products and from this small job do very nice work. Not cheap (there’s a common theme…) but I’m happy with them. I’ve now got the switch panel basically done. A few more details and it will get the same C-F style vinyl wrap as the gauge panel. In addition to the switches already mentioned are the temp and fan control for HVAC, wiper/washer switch, seat heater switches, and aux outlets on the ends. Note that this is integrating the FF supplied HVAC controls. So I won’t be using their panel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87961&d=1530223422

I’ve also managed to get some updates about the Gen 3 Coyote crate. Looks like it’s going to happen! I have several sources, and not sure I should be posting too much. But seems the release and availability is maybe 1-2 months away. The part numbers for the engine and control pack (manual shift only) have been released along with the pricing. It is more than the Gen 2. Won’t know exactly how much since street price is less than retail. But pretty much what I expected. Could have been worse I guess. I’ve got feelers out to see if I can be first in line or on a waiting list when they’re released. We’ll see how that goes. But I’m now nearly positive this is going to work for my build and the timing is going to be OK. There are now multiple reviews of the Gen 3 (2018) Coyote out there, with impressive results. Pretty stoked about it.

Finally, all good builds have to have new and more tools, right? So here’s another. Pretty common these days to have torque-to-yield bolts with both torque and angle specifications for tightening. I’ve always determined the angles as best I could. But with more of these coming on the build, decided it was time to have an angle gauge. Looked at several options, and decided on this Brown Line Metalworks BLDAG001 unit. My digital torque wrench is from Brown Line, and I’ve been happy with the quality. This unit has magnets that attach to the handle of whatever wrench you’re using. Reads the angle, warns when you’re approaching the selected angle, etc. Just played with it so far. No actual real use. But certainly a big step up from my previous guesstimating.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87962&d=1530223453

That’s it for now.

TXAggie

06-28-2018, 09:51 PM

I’ve also managed to get some updates about the Gen 3 Coyote crate. Looks like it’s going to happen! I have several sources, and not sure I should be posting too much. But seems the release and availability is maybe 1-2 months away. The part numbers for the engine and control pack (manual shift only) have been released along with the pricing. It is more than the Gen 2. Won’t know exactly how much since street price is less than retail. But pretty much what I expected. Could have been worse I guess. I’ve got feelers out to see if I can be first in line or on a waiting list when they’re released. We’ll see how that goes. But I’m now nearly positive this is going to work for my build and the timing is going to be OK. There are now multiple reviews of the Gen 3 (2018) Coyote out there, with impressive results. Pretty stoked about it.

Just looked at some reviews on the Gen 3 Coyote nice bump in hp and torque (460/420)... glad I looked through this thread while figuring out my build, should be perfect timing.

JoeAIII

06-30-2018, 05:46 PM

Excellent news on your progress an the gen3!

GoDadGo

06-30-2018, 06:36 PM

edwardb

06-30-2018, 07:53 PM

Sir EdwardB,

Can you share your impressions of this build, since you are so far down the road, compared to your last Roadster?
Also, have you had any major surprises that you had to get the gang at Factory Five to address?

Steve

Hey Steve. Impressions are all positive. There are enough similarities to the Roadster (suspension, steering, pedal box, fuel tank, wiring harness, drill and rivet) that my previous experience certainly applies. The fact that I did a Coyote before means I'm not too nervous about that part. The frame, panels, body, windshield, fuel/brake line routings, and assembly sequence are all different. But the assembly manual is pretty decent plus helps seeing other build threads and completed cars in person several times. I'm learning about heat and A/C for the first time. But the instructions for that are really thorough. Other than follow-up on backordered parts, I haven't had any surprises or things to address with Factory Five. I had a wiring clarification about the A/C which they quickly answered. They sent a box of updated aluminum panels, which I mentioned in the build thread. Awesome customer service. So, all good! ;)

edwardb

07-02-2018, 05:10 PM

Today I received word my powder coated panels were done and picked them up. All 50 pieces. Turned out nice. I'm real happy with the color. They call it IG 90 Satin Glimmer. Don't know the brand. But it's a close match to the frame on the #8674 Anniversary Roadster, and used it some on that build as well. I think it's a nice compliment to the gloss black frame on the Coupe. My experience is that it's easy to keep clean and the satin doesn't show scratches. This isn't much of a picture, but was setting most of them in place as I was making sure I had everything. I did.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88287&d=1530568896

Going to wrap up what I'm working on with electrical and then switch over to panel insulation and installation. Still undecided how I'm going to do the heat and sound insulation. I really want to use Lizard Skin like I've done before. But with several panels that don't go on until after the body is on, plus all the various frame pieces and angles in the footboxes, not sure. Would be a real pain to mask and spray. Thinking of masking the footbox pieces loose, spraying, and then installing. That might be much easier and work just as well. Or maybe switch to a stick on product for the footwells and spray Lizard Skin on the rest. Have to think about this some more. :confused:

shark92651

07-02-2018, 05:46 PM

Or maybe switch to a stick on product for the footwells and spray Lizard Skin on the rest. Have to think about this some more. :confused:

This is what I am going to do for the DS footbox and under my trans tunnel top on my build and spray the rest with Lizard Skin. I bought the Thermo-tec product at Summit for the stick on. I actually found the best price for the Lizard Skin on Amazon, although I did not spend a lot of time searching.

edwardb

07-06-2018, 02:37 PM

Another quick update. Today finished the center switch panel. Wrapped it with the same C-F like vinyl used on my gauge panel. A little tedious, but it’s done and turned out nice I think. Also worked more on the overall layout of all the electrical components. I mounted the previously discussed modules across the top of the upper transmission tunnel cover. They’re pretty much out of the way of the main wiring harness and HVAC ducts. Plus hidden by the switch panel. So I think (hope) it’s all going to fit and be reasonably accessible if needed. This is the completed switch panel with everything mounted. Managed to sink quite a few hours into this with the design and fabrication. Lots going on, even though doesn't quite look like it now. One last minute surprise. Had to make a cutout in the switch panel base and trans cover for a corner of the Cole Hersee wiper/washer switch. It's pretty big. Then made a little sheet metal cover for the underside to seal it up. Always something.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88429&d=1530904496

Left to right – relays for the headlight reminder and fog lights, headlight control module, keyless push button start module, reverse lock-out module. Have to get everything hooked up, but this is a start.

Here’s the gauge cluster and switch panel in my now nearly completed dash. Lots of work to do obviously for all those wires hanging into the footbox. As mentioned before, planning vinyl on the front and top of the dash, with red stitching that matches my seats across the top front. No brow piece. The two trans covers will also be vinyl covered, with red stitching along the corners. The glove box door will probably be the same vinyl as the dash. I'll look at using the C-F style vinyl, although that might be too much. But coming together now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=88431&d=1530904513

The switch panel is held in place with six screws through the bottom of the trans cover, all accessible from underneath, and two into the underside of the dash. With those screws removed, the panel will slide out. The gauge cluster is captured between the dash and the upper dash tube at the top and three screws along the bottom. With the switch panel and those three screws removed, it will tip out. At that point, all the wiring should be accessible, including the modules pictured previously. Both the upper and lower trans covers also will be removable. None of that would be real quick but possible. Hopefully won’t be necessary.

That’s a good head start on electrical. Basically fabrication is completed and ready for wiring. But going to take all this out and get going on permanently mounting panels and getting everything insulated. Then wiring can be finalized.

Family visits and other stuff going on for the next couple weeks, so progress will be slowed a little. That’s OK. With the warmer weather it’s been a little warm in the garage. Received another update on the Gen 3 Coyote. Saying “end of August” is looking pretty good. That works.

edwardb

07-24-2018, 05:13 PM

Finally getting around to another update. Family time and out cruising cuts into available time. But all good. Last few days have been productive. With all my panels back from powder coat, finally time to get serious with them. First took a bunch of stuff out of the chassis. Wiring harness except the rear harness, dash, pedal box, steering column, and A/C evaporator. Need as much as I can out of the way for panel install and partial Lizard Skin spray. More on that later. Then started on the cockpit installing panels for the final time.

There are occasional threads in the forums about using silicone sealant as an adhesive for the panels, as the manual says. Some think a stronger material is needed. Others don’t want anything silicone around their build for fear it could contaminate the body and subsequent paint. Others find it a pain to clean up, which it sorta is. I’ve used plain old GE silicone from the big box stores on my previous builds and didn’t have any complaints. I’ve had to remove a panel or two in the past, after the usual rivet and silicone, and it’s not easy to do without damaging the panel. So, it does seem to be strong enough for this purpose. But never being one to leave well enough alone, plus like to try different things, I went for one of the alternative adhesives that has been suggested. There are several, but I chose Sikaflex-221 Polyurethane Adhesive/Sealant. Available from Amazon for a little under $10 for a 10.1 oz cartridge. Just about through the first tube, and have several observations, all good I guess. I’ve not done any testing, and don’t plan to. But all indications are it’s stronger than silicone, if that’s important. Still a little flexible when cured but seems more substantial. Definitely bonds well. Probably the main thing I like is how easy it cleans up. A little mineral spirits on a paper towel and it wipes right off without leaving a residue like silicone. It does start setting up pretty quickly, but still can be cleaned in a reasonable time. My only regret is I chose the aluminum grey color thinking it would match my powder coated panels. But it’s quite a bit lighter, so I need to make sure every trace of squeeze-out is cleaned up. In hindsight, I would have chosen black. Probably will get another tube for the all black radiator tunnel.

I have a number of cockpit pieces installed. The two transmission tunnel covers will be removable, as already mentioned. The rear outside cockpit corners don’t go in until the body is on. The front tunnel sides will get riveted when the footboxes are installed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89390&d=1532467834

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89389&d=1532467825

I prefer to not put rivets into the seat pan. Certainly all the chassis members all around it, but not the pan itself. Just don’t like the rivets sticking through the underside of the pan. (My OCD at work again…) What I do is put plenty of adhesive on the pan and after putting in all the other rivets, weigh it down with a cinder block. I let that sit for 24 hours or so, and the panel is firmly attached. The seat bolts will add another layer of attachment when installed. Pretty glamorous picture of the cider block doing its thing.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89386&d=1532467754

Another small detail is the rear harness through the aluminum panels. As I recall, this isn’t noted in the manual. And isn’t cut in any of the panels. I added a cutout in the top of the DS trans front tunnel side. Put a piece of wiring protector on the cutout, and there you go. Right now has the rear harness and the rear brake line going through. Will add the clutch hydraulic line when the engine is installed, and then seal it up with some caulking.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89391&d=1532467845

Now for sound/heat insulation. I’ve sprayed Lizard Skin heat and sound materials on all my builds, and have been satisfied with the results. As with most spraying jobs, there are hours spent on masking and minutes spent spraying. As I mentioned before, the Gen 3 Coupe with the space frame has even more obstacles to deal with, mainly in the footbox area. Rather than trying to mask it, I’m going to take a hybrid approach. I’m using stick-on sound/heat insulation products on the footboxes, and Lizard Skin on the rest. I’ve not used these materials before, so spent quite a while looking at the options. Both on our forums and elsewhere. There are a bunch of choices! And the costs are all over the map. I ended up doing a hybrid here too. I was very impressed with everything I read about Second Skin Damplifier Pro. Gets great reviews. Isn't the cheapest, but also isn't the most expensive. It’s primarily for sound, and is the first layer used. I wanted to add another layer for heat. There I chose to use Dynamat 1/8-inch Dynaliner. It has an adhesive backing, where the similar product from Second Skin did not. I found a couple very positive reviews using this combination, so not an original idea. Ordered the required materials and have been working on it.

My strategy is to mount all the insulation materials on the loose panels before installation. Then mount and done. So first thing, traced all the chassis members and overlaps on the inside of the affected panels. Total of 15 (so far). Then I used blue masking tape along all the marked lines. I found it easier to see and work with. Then made patterns for all the pieces out of Ram Board. If you’re not familiar with this material, it’s sold at Home Depot (and I’m sure lots of other places) and is used for floor protection on job sites. It’s just thick enough to make great patterns. Way better than chasing around thin Kraft paper or too small file folders. Only available in a 50-foot roll, so will last a long time. With all the patterns, started cutting and applying the Damplifier Pro, which is now basically complete for all the pieces. Interesting and tough material to deal with. At least for this first-timer. I found a straight edge and single-edge razer blades to be the best for cutting. But went through a bunch of blades because it dulls them fast. Read all the warnings about the sharp edges. But no bloodshed. At least this time through. The material is butyl with an aluminum layer. Really sticky and gummy stuff. But apparently doesn’t smell like tar based products. Here are three representative pieces with the first layer applied:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89387&d=1532467800

With that done, started on the second layer of Dynamat Dynaliner. It’s way easier to work with and should go quickly. I only have the same three pieces done so far. Should finish the rest tomorrow.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89388&d=1532467815

Then will start installing the footboxes, and also get the rear hatch area done. Still a ways to go and a bunch of details to finish. But hopefully will be spraying Lizard Skin in the not too distant future. Than a whole bunch of stuff starts going into the chassis for the last time.

One other comment about insulation. Obviously, my approach is to put the insulation on the inside of the footboxes, plus the balance of the cockpit and hatch area. An alternate approach, and used frequently especially for the coupe, is to put the materials on the outside of the engine facing panels. Especially in the areas directly adjacent to the headers. Certainly a valid approach, and arguably easier than how I'm doing the footboxes. I just prefer the clean look of the powder coated panels in the engine compartment.

Some of you may have seen Mark Gearhart’s post on the forum about receiving one of the first of six Gen 3 Coyote crate motors. Didn’t explain specifically, but apparently an early release for those in the industry because they’re still not officially released. But the August promise still seems on track and I’ll be ordering mine as soon as possible.

edwardb

07-26-2018, 08:05 PM

Finished the two layers of footbox insulation today. Was pretty tedious work. But I kept telling myself how much easier this was than trying to mask and spray these panels if they were mounted on the chassis. Plus there's no way I'd be able to get up into all the nooks and crannies like this. I'm really hopeful this will do a good job on the heat and sound for the footboxes. Have test fit most of the pieces and have a little adjustment to make in one place where I didn't allow for the pedal box mounting bracket. But an easy fix. Will starting mounting them for good tomorrow. You can see in the pictures I also decided now was a good time to mount the A/C and heater bulkhead fittings. They have 1-1/8 inch nuts on the inside, and easy to reach them now. Still a couple small pieces to insulate. Will do those once all the panels are mounted. One other small detail I'll mention. When I was tracing the frame members onto the panels, I noted where there were gaps or openings (like where frame members intersected, etc.) and adjusted the patterns accordingly. Should help get those openings filled. Planning to add seam sealer or something similar. But this will give something for support rather than just a bare opening.

Also today received notice of an incoming FedEx from Factory Five. My last POL item! It's the long lost clear Coupe headlight covers. Apparently they changed vendors and took some time to sort out. No big deal and not holding anything up. But kind of a milestone. Kit is now 100% received. :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89496&d=1532652244

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=89495&d=1532652233

GoDadGo

07-26-2018, 08:14 PM

Paul,

You Always Do Killer Work & We All Enjoy Watching Your Builds Turn Into Rolling Art!

Steve

Automan

07-26-2018, 11:34 PM

That is amazing work!!!! Great news for the headlight covers. Should be seeing those items soon too. They are also my last POL.

mmklaxer

07-27-2018, 04:31 AM

Were you to build another roadster, would you use this insulation process for those footboxes as well, or would you stick with masking & spraying?

edwardb

07-27-2018, 06:34 AM

Were you to build another roadster, would you use this insulation process for those footboxes as well, or would you stick with masking & spraying?

Interesting question. Had to think about it a little. I think my sensitivity to this topic is higher with the Coupe because the cockpit will be closed in all the time. So I'm really focused on controlling sound, heat, maximizing the effectiveness of the A/C, etc. I suspect the double layer of insulation on every square inch of the Coupe footboxes will be more effective than what I did on the Roadsters. But how much difference it makes is unknown at this point. My experience with the Roadsters based on multiple driving seasons and using the two Lizard Skin products is that we've never felt that heat from the engine or headers affected the temperature in the cockpit. But then living in Michigan, we have occasional hot days, but nothing like other areas of the country. We've also never had or considered a top. Sound control in an open top Roadster is subjective. I believe the insulation gives the car a more solid and tight feeling. But whether it affects actual dB's, probably not so much. And whether every square inch is covered is perhaps less of a priority. As a side note, I'd stress that sealing the cockpit from hot air infiltration from the engine compartment is a top priority. No amount of insulation will help if hot air is blowing into the cockpit.

Having said that, based on the Lizard Skin experience with #5125 and #7750, I did actually hand brush a couple of panels on the DS footbox of #8674 before assembly, as pictured below. These were areas that were nearly inaccessible for spraying once assembled. Couple of other pieces not pictured. The underside of the removable transmission tunnel cover and the DS access panel. But the rest I sprayed once installed with a lot of masking. For a Roadster, I'd probably do it the same way again. Masking and spraying early in the assembly process with as few obstacles as possible. Including the pedal box, any wiring, etc. Now that I've tried the stick-on approach, that's certainly an option as well. But the work is about the same either way.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/IMG_3884_zpsbh1x4hq3.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Aluminum%20Panels/IMG_3884_zpsbh1x4hq3.jpg.html)

Budge

07-30-2018, 11:00 AM

I live perhaps 90 minutes away and would be very interested in dropping by to see what you have, and meet you. I am considering a 65 Coupe.

edwardb

07-30-2018, 12:45 PM

I live perhaps 90 minutes away and would be very interested in dropping by to see what you have, and meet you. I am considering a 65 Coupe.

Sure. I enjoy having visitors. PM sent.

Troy Johnson

07-30-2018, 10:22 PM

edwardb

07-31-2018, 07:23 AM

Hello Paul,

I noticed on your past few builds that you fasten your sheetmetal in the cockpit utilizing two types of rivet sizes. Are you using 3/16 for the floor pans to chassis and 1/8 for the transmission tunnel panels? Do you upgrade any of these to structural (Q-rivets) for increased strength?

Those larger looking rivets are 1/8-inch "Ultimate Rivets" from Summit Racing. The version with a 3/8-inch head. https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/sum-abs4246lurr1_w.jpg?rep=False. I like them because they have a wide grip range (0.063-0.375 in) and the large head pulls and holds well. Nothing wrong with the kit provided rivets. I just happen to like these better in certain places. But I only use them into chassis members, not panel-to-panel because of the size of the crushed rivet on the back side. That's one of the reasons you see different rivets in different places in my pictures.

I do use the more structural Q-rivets, but not a lot. I have the 3/16-inch size on the tabs for the brake flex lines, the padded clamps holding fuel and brake lines, and the padded clamps where I want to tie down the chassis harness. I like them a lot for applications like that. I don't think they're necessary for general panel attachment. At .30 - .40 each, would be quite expensive as well. Also, at least the 3/16-inch size (only size I've used), I can barely pull them with both hands on the manual rivet tool. My office hardened grip... I use my pneumatic puller whenever possible, which I do in all cases anyway.

edwardb

08-01-2018, 11:16 PM

I’ve had some productive build sessions since the last update. As of today, all the panels I’m planning to install are done. As I’ve mentioned before, the Coupe has a number of pieces that aren’t installed until after the body is installed. So I have those yet to go. Plus I’m leaving the fixed portion of the footbox tops and firewall off for now. They’re easy adds later and I want the additional access for the upcoming wiring, HVAC installation, etc. Also still not permanently attaching the center fill piece I made for the engine compartment. I don’t see any reason why it won’t work or fit. But waiting until I have the engine and everything else installed just to be sure.

Related to this, and I’ll mention it here, the hatch sides are two of the major pieces that don’t go in until after the body is on. The instructions show the edge of these panels going under the hatch floor. That’s fine, and what I’m planning to do. Be careful to not have adhesive under this edge of the floor. I actually kept it an inch or two away on the cross pieces as well. I’m able to left the edge enough to get the pieces under. Also on this point, I’m not planning to use adhesive on these pieces or the other pieces, like the outer rear cockpit corners, that are also added after the body is on. Although I’m not sure why it would be necessary to take the body off once everything is done, don’t want to make it harder than it needs to be. The nose would come off pretty easily, e.g. for major engine work or removal. The back half affected by all these pieces probably unlikely.

The heat and sound insulation I added to the footbox pieces, shown in the last update, all worked out pretty well with just a couple minor trims. Real happy with how that turned out. For the exposed rivets in the engine compartment, I painted them with matching Duplic-Color spray. Same stuff I used on the #8674 build. Kind of a tedious (and maybe a little silly) process of taking the rivets apart, lining the heads up in a pre-drilled block, spraying them after a light sand and clean, and then re-installing the pins. For the most part, they held up to the assembly process pretty well. The pneumatic puller seems to be easier on them than the manual one. But still some would get a little scratched or marked. Spent a little time with an artist brush tonight and touched up those that needed it and I’m done with that. Lots of pictures.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90610&d=1533181296

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90611&d=1533181303

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90612&d=1533181311

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90613&d=1533181319

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90615&d=1533181335

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90614&d=1533181327

We all know what I need to put in that big empty space in the last picture. Come on Gen 3 Coyote. With the dropped box and hatch floor installed, finally permanently installed the gas tank. Felt good getting everything hooked up and connected for real. Very briefly put power on the fuel pump wires from the harness at the dash. It’s alive. Not supposed to run those dry, but a second or two shouldn’t hurt anything. Also read the ohms out of the fuel level sender. Where it should be for an empty tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90616&d=1533181345

edwardb

08-01-2018, 11:19 PM

These are views from the underside. Shows that nice big tunnel for the trans. The T-56 fits pretty easily. Also shows how it looks to have all the panels coated. There’s often debate on the forum about which panels to finish on these builds. Some say only what shows from the engine compartment. I say everything shows. Well, I guess if you have a lift and care about such things.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90617&d=1533181369

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90618&d=1533181382

With all that done, installed the steering column and the brake/clutch reservoirs. Hopefully both also for the last time. I’m going to bleed the brakes tomorrow. Anxious to get my lines all checked out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90609&d=1533181270

Finally, broke open the carpeting box for the first time. A lot of pieces in there! Makes sense since there’s carpet for the entire cockpit and hatch area. Would be like a Roadster with added trunk pieces. I checked the fit of most of the pieces and looks pretty good. I don’t have all the details yet, but I don’t see any glaring raw edges like with the Roadster. That’s nice. I think I’ll add a couple pieces in the footwells to cover the square tubes in there. The inside is already covered, and think I’ll add the other two. One hint. Open the box and lay out all the pieces well in advance of installation. That way the bends and creases from being jammed in the box should flatten out. I've got them all stacked up in the basement and they should be good and ready when I am.

Next major step, after a few more details, is masking and Lizard Skin application.

Jeff Kleiner

08-02-2018, 05:47 AM

Looks fantastic Paul!

Jeff

Dlirium

08-02-2018, 09:54 AM

edwardb

08-02-2018, 11:15 AM

Paul. Huge help as always! I'm EXACTLY at this point on my build, going to go mark and install the insulation on the foot box panels tomorrow per your process - this update is very timely! Thanks for the heads up on the pieces that get installed AFTER the body. You are helping me avoid many rookie mistakes...

Cool! Follow the manual on the aluminum panels. They do a good job of explaining where they go, when they get installed, etc. The parts I listed are just a few of the ones that don't get installed until after the body is installed. Add to the list the rear hatch wall, some pieces around the firewall, and all the splash guards. Plus a couple other small parts I'm probably not remembering. They're all kind of spread out in the manual. I went through the manual a couple months ago and made a list.

David Hodgkins

08-02-2018, 11:57 AM

Man that looks GREAT! I'm with you; powdercoat everything (unless of course you are afflicted with polishing disease):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42067&d=1432244060

:)

TheBabyBadger

08-02-2018, 12:52 PM

Looking great!!!!

edwardb

08-02-2018, 03:27 PM

Thanks for the positive comments guys. Fun to do and also fun to get positive (and motivating...) feedback. Don't plan on daily updates :p but just finished bleeding the brakes for the first time, as mentioned in yesterday's update. Kind of a big deal. The CliffsNotes version is it's done, working, and no leaks so far. For the whole story, I used my previously successful pressure bleed process. Hasn't let me down yet and doesn't require a helper. I've always used the CNC reservoirs, and came across their pressure cap I think based on another forum post some years ago. I used the Tilton reservoirs on this build due to space limitations, but still wanted to use the same process. So bought an extra cap and added the Schrader valve to it. I didn't plan ahead and didn't want to run around finding one, so just "borrowed" the valve off the CNC cap. Screwed it into the plastic cap with a little sealant and it seem to hold the low pressure required just fine. I used the same Valvoline DOT 3/4 synthetic brake fluid I've used on all my builds. Stock item at our local Advance, not expensive, and supposed to be good fluid.

The process I use is first do a "bench bleed" with temporary lines from the MC's back to the reservoirs. With fluid covering the end of the lines, pump the pedal until there's a full flow of fluid back into the reservoirs. Some have suggested this step isn't necessary when pressure bleeding. But it's the process I've used and not difficult, so sticking with it. With that done and the actual brake lines back on the MC's, start the actual bleeding. I turned my compressor down to 5/6/7 PSI, and used that to first pressurize the rear reservoir. It doesn't take a lot and you don't want to over pressurize. Then to the right rear caliper and attach a line to the outside top bleeder. The big Wilwoods have a top bleeder on each caliper for the rear brakes. With the line into my official brake bleeding Ball jar, open the bleeder. Note at no time during this method of bleeding do you pump the brake pedal while the reservoir is under pressure. The reservoir may need to be pressurized several times on the first try as the lines fill with fluid. But then fluid with bubbles and eventually no bubbles. Repeat for the inner caliper. Then to the left rear, then the right front, then the left front. Keep pressure in the appropriate reservoir. Also watch the fluid level, refilling as needed. If it runs empty, then you'd have to start the whole process over.

Once completed the first time, I didn't have a completely hard pedal. So ran around the bleed process again. Only takes 10 minutes or so. Found a few bubbles still in the rear lines. First time that's happened, but no big deal. Then the pedal was hard just like it should be. Tested the brakes by having my shop assistant (my wife...) press the pedal as I turned each wheel. All grab hard and release properly. Hooray! Held the pedal down hard for a minute or so and it seems to be holding fine. Checked all my fittings and no sign of any leaks. That's a relief because I really don't want to mess around (again) with those SS lines and fittings. Obviously I'll keep checking, but looks good for now. Since I had all the bleeding gear out, went around one more time and bled each again for good measure. Didn't get a single bubble anywhere. So I think it's good to go. Topped off the reservoirs and cleaned everything up and put away. Man I don't like working with brake fluid. Glad it's done for now. Little more ahead for the clutch, but that should be simple with a single bleed.

Quick picture of the Tilton homemade pressure cap. Obviously now removed and replaced with the real cap.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90627&d=1533239011

JoeAIII

08-03-2018, 12:21 PM

The valvoline synthetic fluid is what I used for years in my track day/autocross car. 80% of the heat resilience at 10% the cost of fancy racing fluids. I alwaus found that if I boiled fluid it was because of improper pad selection and temperatures were such that any fluid would fail.

Regarding powdercoating, I recently pulled my panels out of the box after a year and a half, and seeing the oxidation on the panels that had been in my florida garage next to the ones from the box, I am convinced that all panels need some protection.

edwardb

08-07-2018, 11:19 AM

Today I finished how I’m going to install the seats. I wanted to get this done before starting the cockpit insulation while it’s easy to see everything. Plus I need to sort out my heated seat wiring before spraying on the insulation. My normal method is to bury the wires in the corner of the floor/trans tunnel on each side. My previous builds have all been the standard Roadster seats where the bottom cushion swings up exposing the seat frame for easy access. Plus I haven’t done sliders before. Only bolted directly to the cockpit floor. With the Corbeau seats I showed earlier, no option for either. With them in place, it became very obvious reaching under the seats to install mounting bolts would be challenging if not impossible. Especially for the rear bolts. I decided to mount them with 3/8"-16 button head alloy steel screws from the bottom into the cockpit with nuts fixed to the slider frame. After looking at several options, decided to use 3/8"-16 weld nuts from McMaster (where else?) located and riveted to the frame. These: https://www.mcmaster.com/#90955a123/=1e1xnql.

So the challenge was to establish the locations for the mounting bolts, taking into account the seat positions, slider frames, and acceptable mounting locations on the chassis. There is a seat pan welded into the chassis. But how to find the proper locations? After staring at it for a while (I do that…) decided to make cardboard patterns for each side that exactly indexed to the slider frame on three sides and extended 6-8 inches out the front. Then with the seats in the appropriate locations, marked the position of the patterns with tape. They were out in front of the seats and could be reached. Then took the seats out and used the patterns to determine the locations of each mounting bolt. As it turned out, I was able to get 3 of the 4 into the seat pan on each side. But one (the front inside on both sides) needed to go through a frame rail.

With the locations determined, drilled the cockpit floor, matching locations in the slider frame, installed the weld nuts onto the frames, and a little while ago fit everything together. Success! I’m very happy with how this turned out, and will be relatively easy to install and remove since all four bolts are accessible from under the car. The nuts move around slightly in the retainers, so makes getting them started a little less critical. Once in and tight, the seats are rock solid. Both seats will slide forward six inches or so. But not sure how often that will be required. Even for me (5’10”) the rear position on the driver’s seat is fine. Basically the same exact distance from the steering wheel and pedals as my Roadster. Side note: These seats work very well for me (discussed before) but for taller builders may not be the best choice. Different seats could locate another couple inches at least further back than these. Another side note: Found the passenger seat was most comfortable turned slightly to the outside. The passenger footbox is slightly offset to the right, and found the seating was more comfortable slightly favored to that side. Barely noticeable. But makes a difference. And yet another side note, the seat location, the location of the underlying seat pan, plus the seat type I selected, all work together to make an anti-sub belt not practical. I'm looking right now at Schroth Profi II ASM belts. Designed to be 4-point while still providing anti-submarine function. Nice but pricey to say the least. Trying to sell my kit provided Simpsons if anyone is interested.

With that, some pictures. This is the pattern attached to the passenger seat and the resulting index marks after determining the desired location. Same process for the drivers side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90859&d=1533655510

These are the two patterns (made from Ram Board, mentioned in a previous update) in their desired locations. Marked the location of the seat frame, tracks, underlying seat pan and frame rails, etc. From that, determined the four mounting locations for each side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90856&d=1533655481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90855&d=1533655473

Slider frames with the holes drilled in the frame and cockpit floor, and all eight weld nuts installed. First time checking the fit and everything aligned. Whew! I did throw a little rattle can black on the weld nuts before riveting them in place. Not visible, but plain steel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90854&d=1533655466

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90853&d=1533655459

Seats installed now in their final locations.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90857&d=1533655492

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90858&d=1533655500

One of the interesting challenges of the Coupe is climbing in and out. Efforts to date have been a little clumsy, to say the least. Today I learned (and am relieved!) that having the seats bolted down makes a big difference. Passenger side is relatively easy. Driver’s side would be easier without the steering wheel (I can see why some guys go with a removable wheel) but I can manage OK. Obviously it will also make a difference with the body, the doors, etc. But way easier getting in and out with fixed seats versus when they were loose and sliding around.

edwardb

08-08-2018, 11:29 AM

Shortest update in my history. Heard from several sources that my planned BFGoodrich G-Force Rival S tires were in short supply. Have them on #8674 and am happy with them, so not interested in finding something else at this point. Took a few tries, but found the sizes I wanted at Tire Rack and today they're in my garage. P275/35ZR-18 for the front, P315/30ZR-18 for the rear. Will get them mounted and I'll have a roller.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90953&d=1533745471

shark92651

08-08-2018, 12:16 PM

i.e.427

08-08-2018, 12:20 PM

These are the two patterns (made from Ram Board, mentioned in a previous update) in their desired locations. Marked the location of the seat frame, tracks, underlying seat pan and frame rails, etc. From that, determined the four mounting locations for each side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90856&d=1533655481

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=90855&d=1533655473

I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

edwardb

08-08-2018, 04:21 PM

This is looking very nice. Can you give some details on how you countersink those flush rivets and bolts? What sort of materials/tools you used? I was wondering how to get good results in the thin gauge aluminum panels.

Thanks. Really nothing too earth shattering going on there. I use a 100 degree countersink like this one https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742a35/=1e2kmht and plain old 1/8-inch aluminum rivets. Set them with a small anvil and hammer. For screws, use the same countersink and 100 degree screws like these https://www.mcmaster.com/#90471a210/=1e2knbs. The shallow countersink angle allows them to be used in thinner material. In both cases, I make sure to get the countersink at or slightly below the surface, and then use JB Weld as a filler and sand flat. They completely disappear under the dash covering.

I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

Thanks. It does work really well for patterns. I had never heard of Ram Board until last year when we had some work done on our house. The contractor put Ram Board down on our wood floors for protection. Served its intended use but I realized it had a more noble purpose. :D

shark92651

08-08-2018, 06:21 PM

Thanks. Really nothing too earth shattering going on there. I use a 100 degree countersink like this one https://www.mcmaster.com/#2742a35/=1e2kmht and plain old 1/8-inch aluminum rivets. Set them with a small anvil and hammer. For screws, use the same countersink and 100 degree screws like these https://www.mcmaster.com/#90471a210/=1e2knbs. The shallow countersink angle allows them to be used in thinner material. In both cases, I make sure to get the countersink at or slightly below the surface, and then use JB Weld as a filler and sand flat. They completely disappear under the dash covering.

Thanks, I'm pretty sure my problem was my countersinks - I think they are 82 degrees. I ordered a 100 degree so hopefully will get better results.

P100DHG

08-11-2018, 10:42 AM

I love those AC knobs you chose can those be purchased through the supplier you chose and any part numbers you can share? Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge

Jeff Kleiner

08-11-2018, 01:35 PM

I thought I was the only one that used Ram Board for templates. Great minds think alike. Great work Dude!

Yeah, sure, but I'm more of a Miller High Life box kind of guy. I seem to have an almost never ending supply of those around here although there was that one time I called Nancy and asked her to pick up a case on the way home...she said "Surely you aren't out of beer". I replied "I'm not, but I am out of cardboard---and don't call me Shirley" :)

Jeff

kehenline

08-11-2018, 01:59 PM

edwardb

08-11-2018, 04:40 PM

I love those AC knobs you chose can those be purchased through the supplier you chose and any part numbers you can share? Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge

Those knobs come with the Factory Five Gen 3 AC-Heater kit. Maybe with others as well. I asked for and received another so my wiper-washer knob would match. I'm going to label them or put icons on them. Still looking at options.

Yeah, sure, but I'm more of a Miller High Life box kind of guy. I seem to have an almost never ending supply of those around here although there was that one time I called Nancy and asked her to pick up a case on the way home...she said "Surely you aren't out of beer". I replied "I'm not, but I am out of cardboard---and don't call me Shirley" :) Jeff

We have clearance, Clarence. But don't get me started on the Airplane quotes. Too funny.

edwardb

08-11-2018, 04:41 PM

Paul, I have been following your build for some time now. you are not only a good builder, but an excellent technical writer. I am visiting the factory on Monday (8/13)and expect to place my order for a type 65 coupe. as have many others, I will be using your build threads for guidance. I am about 3.5 hrs from you. would it be possible to come up and see your build. "a picture is worth a thousand words."

thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge / experience with us.

Thanks for the generous comments. I have visitors pretty regularly and you're welcome to stop by. Send me a PM when you're settling on a date/time. My schedule is usually pretty flexible. Enjoy the factory visit. It's very interesting and I think you'll be impressed.

merim123

08-13-2018, 09:55 AM

Sigurd

08-13-2018, 11:32 AM

edwardb

08-13-2018, 12:19 PM

Great detail on the build. I'm debating mk4 vs new coupe. The Corbeau seats look fantastic. They seem to hit the roof or get really close? Makes me think I may not fit at 6'3" I'm curious how tall you are? and how the taller folks have fit in a coupe?

I am 6'5" and have a few pounds to many. I can not answer for the Corebau seats but the Coupe in the FF showroom fit me like a glove. The car has the low back vintage race seats (15478). I do, however, have to practice getting in and out of the car.

Agreed for 6'3" (or 6'5") the Corbeau seats that we've selected and installed wouldn't be the right choice. I'm 5'10" and my wife several inches shorter, so for us they're just right plus they're the look I was going for. They don't hit the roof. They're tight against the outer roll bar cage, but that doesn't appear to be an issue. Some seats have a narrower headrest, or would be lower. Factory Five made the door opening and height/legroom a priority with the Gen 3 Coupe, so I'm confident much taller owners will fit. Like Sigurd said. But with different seats. When I sat in the showroom model at Factory Five, I dropped into the Kirkey race seats and was barely looking over the steering wheel. Felt like I was in 6th grade in my father's Oldsmobile. Knew right then we'd have to find different seats. I ordered mine with the standard Roadster seats, knowing I could sell them which is what I did. Made maybe a little more than with just deleting the seats outright. Then shopped for what would work best for us. No matter what you do though, I highly recommend high backs. The roll bar cage is directly behind your head.

edwardb

08-17-2018, 04:04 PM

Another eventful week or so on the build. First up was finally finishing all the panel installations for now plus getting all the gaps and openings filled, e.g. around frame members, door hinges, etc. Lots of different products possible for gap filling. For #8674, with the special white and glimmer frame and panels, found a product called Marine-Tex Epoxy Putty. Just so happened to come in white and grey (very dark, almost black) so perfect for the Anniversary Roadster build. The stuff’s been around for a long time I guess. I really like how it worked, so went back to that product on this build. Used the grey which blends well with the gloss black frame and dark grey powder coated panels. I mentioned before that where I pre-installed the sound and heat insulation, I left the products long where there were gaps and openings to fill. That worked perfect as a backer for the Marine-Tex. Mostly it’s kind of like caulking a bathtub or whatever. Except I use masking tape to keep it from going everywhere. Process: Mask around the area, glop in the filler, smooth with precision digit (e.g. my finger), and pull the tape. Little tedious, but everything is done. Also I installed the seat heater wires. As I've done before, glued into the inside corners of the cockpit and up the footbox tunnel on each side. They're be buried by the insulation and carpet. Next step is to spray Lizard Skin, which I plan to start next week. The usual process. Multiple hours masking, minutes to spray. I’ll do the sound product on one day, and the heat product on the second.

In the meantime, couple other updates. I showed my new tires in a previous post. Today I was able to get them mounted, balanced, and on the chassis. As always, a bit of a story. For #8674, I had the same exact rims and almost the same tires. Took them to a tire store that was highly recommended. They immediately got hung up on the valve stems and tried quite unsuccessfully to install bolt in stems and scratched up one of the rims in the process. I’ve posted about this a couple times before. After a call to Factory Five, right from the store, received instructions to use plain old TR413 rubber pull through stems. With a little lube and a twist, installed fine. They got the job done, but I wasn’t too happy with them and I think they were happy to see me go. Obviously, wasn’t interested in going back this time. Took the tires and rims to my local big chain tire store. The guy there was very friendly and helpful, but didn’t want to install the tires because of the rims. They don’t have touchless equipment, and he pretty much promised they would scratch the rims. So did some more checking and ended up at a high-end shop that our club visited a couple years ago. They’re used to Ferrari’s, Lambos, Bimmers, etc. but were happy to do mine. They have a nearly new Corghi touchless tire wheel mounting machine (made in Italy, approved for Ferrari :cool:) and also a pretty new and modern Hunter Road Force wheel balancer. When I explained about the TR413 valve stems (didn't want to repeat that problem again...) the guy immediately understood and said "Yea, just like a Ferrari." Have to like that. Got to watch the whole time, which I found very interesting and the guy doing the work was super careful. For a couple of the tires, he broke the bead and rotated the tires on the wheels to reduce the balance weights required. It worked. Nice. The price was less than the quote I had from the big chain store. Got them home and mounted. Now we’re getting somewhere. Finally a roller. The 275's in front look like they're going to fit just fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91479&d=1534535630

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91478&d=1534535621

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91477&d=1534535613

Another open topic has been the seat harnesses. Of course my kit came with the usual Simpson 5-point harness I’ve used previously and most other builders do as well. I’ve always used the 5th anti-submarine belt on previous builds. For some seats and some installations, they don’t fit too well and people leave them out. Not a good idea IMO. Early on I realized the Corbeau seats I selected weren’t going to play nice with the anti-submarine belt. Plus where the seats ended up the steel seat pan wasn’t available for mounting. Early in the build thread another forum member suggested I look at Schroth Profi ASM harnesses. Over the last couple of weeks I did and short version, have them and test mounted. These are designed to be 4-point and still provide anti-submarine protection. Their website shows how it works, crash tests, etc. Pretty interesting. Shopped around and found the best price for their Schroth Profi II ASM FE product. These have a Push-Button Cam lock which is really nice. Note they also have to be sided. So there is a different part number for the driver and passenger side. They come in several colors. I chose red. Big surprise. Now I’m fully committed. Mocked them up today and I’m very impressed. I’ll do the wrap on the roll bar when it’s time for final assembly. I was able to sell my NIB Simpsons for a decent price on the forum, so that helped offset some of the cost. But they still needed another chunk of change. They’re very high quality, made in Germany, and not cheap to say the least. Once again, what budget? Couple pics:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91476&d=1534535586

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91475&d=1534535576

Checked in with my contact at Ford Performance again earlier this week. Still very promising the Gen 3 crate Coyote will be released to the general public by the end of August. Looks like the timing is going to work as I’ve been hoping. Tomorrow is the Woodward Dream Cruise here in SE Michigan, projected at 1 million participants and more than 40,000 cars of every shape and size. If you're a car person, you probably would like it. If not, it's just one big giant traffic jam and loud party. Many that don't participate leave town this week. Too bad. Our club has an event right in the heart of everything with lots happening. Weather looks promising, so looking forward to it as always.

Automan

08-17-2018, 11:06 PM

That looks absolutely beautiful!!!!!

Are you leaving the foam around the roll bars?

Jkviper

08-18-2018, 03:59 AM

Awesome job Paul, the Coupe is coming along great.

edwardb

08-18-2018, 04:35 AM

Are you leaving the foam around the roll bars?

All of the foam is just cheap pipe insulation from HD intended to keep me from scratching things up during the build and is temporary. I will be adding something permanent on the roll bar sections above the doors. They're quite close to the driver and passenger heads. Something that's specifically made for that purpose. Everything else is far enough away once you're belted in.

Higgybulin

08-18-2018, 06:20 AM

Wow, haven't checked in for awhile!! Its looking like a race car! As always great work and write ups.
Higgy

wareaglescott

08-18-2018, 08:05 AM

Looks so cool as a roller....but I must ask have you actually rolled it anywhere to make it official? haha Lets get that thing out in the sun for a picture!
Really nice to hear the guy at the big box tire store was honest about the likelihood of scratching.

Ducky2009

08-18-2018, 10:32 AM

Looks great Paul. Love the seats. Looks nicer that the Kirkey seats I have. What brand/model are they? I may have to make a change.

edwardb

08-18-2018, 04:22 PM

Looks so cool as a roller....but I must ask have you actually rolled it anywhere to make it official? haha Lets get that thing out in the sun for a picture!

I rolled it back and forth a few feet. Does that count? :confused: It will be rolling it out onto the driveway when I spray the Lizard Skin. Maybe then it will be official.

Looks great Paul. Love the seats. Looks nicer that the Kirkey seats I have. What brand/model are they? I may have to make a change.

Corbeau Sportline Evolution-X 64901F seats, black vinyl/carbon fiber vinyl, red stitching and Corbeau Single Slider Brackets C22059. Available lots of places, including Summit. But I ordered the seats direct from Corbeau because I had the optional seat heaters installed. Can't say how they would fit in a Roadster, if that's what you're thinking. Only looked at how they fit in the Gen 3 Coupe, which was OK for our use.

Erik W. Treves

08-19-2018, 08:22 AM

did you end up putting wheel spacers in the back? Also I notice you are running R suspension ride height... is this because of the shocks? Really clean build. very nice.

edwardb

08-19-2018, 12:58 PM

did you end up putting wheel spacers in the back? Also I notice you are running R suspension ride height... is this because of the shocks? Really clean build. very nice.

Hey Erik. Thanks! Yes, I have 1-inch Eibach hub-centric spacers in the back. Some suggested it could handle a little more, but went with those. The suspension is at the street height. But even then, per Factory Five instructions, the silver Koni double adjustable shocks are installed in the top R hole. Apparently because they are slightly longer.

P100DHG

08-19-2018, 04:29 PM

Erik W. Treves

08-19-2018, 05:08 PM

FYSA... I started with 1 inch spacers in the back and they were not enough. Even with the 1.5 spacer I still had to notch the frame.

edwardb

08-19-2018, 06:38 PM

Have you given any thought to a stereo system? I’m leaning toward nothing and just using a bose mini sound dock or something like a Bluetooth puck coming straight off an amp so there wouldn’t be a head unit for my build coming up this winter.

Nope. No stereo system planned. Spent a lot of time (and money) installing a nice system in one of my Roadster builds and barely used it. Combination of the noisy environment plus I really don't want or need the tunes while cruising. This is talked about a lot with lots of opinions. That was my experience. The Coupe might be quieter, I don't know. If I do decide I want some tunes, I'll use a Bluetooth speaker behind the seats from my iPhone.

FYSA... I started with 1 inch spacers in the back and they were not enough. Even with the 1.5 spacer I still had to notch the frame.

Yea, I hear you. Right now the clearance looks OK. I'm watching out for that plus how the tires space to the body. But as I recall from looking at your Coupe you're running 335's, right? I'm running 315's.

Erik W. Treves

08-19-2018, 07:28 PM

ah! I thought you running 335's... should be ok then ... sorry about that... didn't mean to set off the fire alarm

edwardb

08-19-2018, 08:29 PM

ah! I thought you running 335's... should be ok then ... sorry about that... didn't mean to set off the fire alarm

No panic or fire alarms. :p But made me look closer and check a little further. My rear alignment isn't finally set, but it's close. Cranked the collars on the coilovers all the way down so the spring was as loose as possible and dropped the chassis all the way down. Probably not at full compression since the lift arms are still under there. But lower than ride height. I have 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 inches of space between the tire and the angled chassis piece I believe is the possible offender. At ride height, it's right at 2 inches. I think (hope...) I'm OK.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=91649&d=1534727855

Erik W. Treves

08-20-2018, 07:40 AM

should be ok I think... I had quite the fight to get the 335's in there so they didn't rub....not an issue until a really accelerated or had 2 people in the car. I am liking the space you have there.

Gobozo

08-20-2018, 09:44 AM

edwardb

08-20-2018, 10:12 AM

Edwardb,

Can you or one of the other posters put a tape measure across the widest part of the chassis and let me know this dimension. Access to and from my build space may be critical. (I could only find the dimensions for the 33 rod)

Thanks guys.

The absolutely widest point on the bare chassis is at the door hinge mounts. 64 inches. Next widest is at the door sills. 58 inches. Hope it fits.

stevant

08-22-2018, 05:48 AM

Amazing work Paul. On top of all the questions from people like me :rolleyes: you still have time to do some amazing work.

Thanks again for your help and inspiration. Did I tell you I prefer blue for this one? :cool:

2bking

08-27-2018, 06:25 PM

I see Mike Forte is saying the Gen 3 Coyote is available now. What's the latest from your Ford contact?

edwardb

08-27-2018, 07:26 PM

I see Mike Forte is saying the Gen 3 Coyote is available now. What's the latest from your Ford contact?

As of six days ago: Expect to be officially released by end of August (getting close of course) and about two weeks for quantities. Engines being received and crated, PCM's being programmed. I was a little surprised to see the posts from Mike Forte. The part numbers have been in Ford's internal system for some weeks. M-6007-M50C for the manual shift engine, M-6017-M50B for the control pack. But not visible or available to order for dealers even as late as a couple days ago. Perhaps that's just changed.

Having said that, stay tuned. :rolleyes:

Jeff Kleiner

08-28-2018, 05:40 AM

Exciting times Paul!

Quick question; after adding the spacers what did your rear wheel mounting surface to mounting surface width wind up as? Time to start looking at wheel options...

Thanks,
Jeff

edwardb

08-28-2018, 03:44 PM

Exciting times Paul!

Quick question; after adding the spacers what did your rear wheel mounting surface to mounting surface width wind up as? Time to start looking at wheel options...

Thanks,
Jeff

Measured it just for you. :D 60-1/4 inches. That's with the Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer Wheel Spacer Kit, 25mm (1 inch) parts I'm using.

edwardb

08-28-2018, 04:32 PM

Today I finished spraying Lizard Skin heat and sound insulation and got everything de-masked. There’s no sugar-coating it. Lizard Skin is a lot of work. I really like the final result, so stayed focused on that. Takes a while to get everything properly masked, then two separate days of spraying (24 hours between the sound and heat products), then clean everything up. I’ve done the previous Roadsters in my garage. Even though I was careful, and spread lots of drop clothes, still managed to sling the stuff all over the place including on the walls on the other side of the garage. The undercoat gun used for this application, along with the jelly like viscosity of the material, makes it interesting. So this time I chose to spray outside on my driveway on a great big tarp. The backdrop was the woods along the side of my driveway. So not too worried about that. Was a good plan until zero chance of precipitation turned into a shower just as I was pushing the finished chassis back into the garage. Didn’t hurt anything but would have been a disaster if 20-30 minutes earlier.

As far as the actual process, I followed Lizard Skin’s instructions, as I have before. I did a write-up a few years ago. Pretty much followed my own recommendations. https://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/342954-lizard-skin-application-experience.html. The Coupe is a little challenging, as I’ve mentioned before, because of the number of panels that don’t get installed until after the body is on. Plus there’s the roll cage to mask off. In a previous update, I described using stick-on materials in the footwells. So the Lizard Skin application was the balance of the cockpit, the hatch area, and the loose pieces to be installed later. I sprayed two coats of sound material on everything yesterday. Then 2 coats of heat material in the cockpit and loose cockpit parts and one coat in the hatch area and loose hatch parts. I’ve got just enough left over from the 2 gallon bucket of each product to spray the body headliner area. Would like to cut down on sound and mostly heat by spraying there when I get to body work.

That’s about it. Here are a bunch of pictures. First scuffed up my nice pretty powder coat where the Lizard Skin would be applied. Before anyone questions, the other side in all cases is still still shiny new powder coat and in my world is showing. :o I used stretch wrap film around the roll bars. That worked pretty well and I think was easier then a lot of masking tape or paper. At the last minute, decided to also put some stretch wrap film around my brand new tires since they would be rolling around where I was spraying. Glad I did. They picked up a lot of overspray material. The rest of the masking was the usual mixture of tape, paper, etc. Those are the wires for my heated seats that are wrapped and hanging out of the way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92130&d=1535490281

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92131&d=1535490291

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92132&d=1535490300

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92133&d=1535490308

Out on the driveway while spraying:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92134&d=1535490317

edwardb

08-28-2018, 04:33 PM

Finished product. You can kind of see where the rain drops hit. May go away once it’s completely dry. Or not. Don't think it's an issue.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92137&d=1535490343

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92136&d=1535490334

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92135&d=1535490325

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92138&d=1535490351

Now onward to electrical, engine, etc. And finally can start leaving things in once installed.

Higgybulin

08-29-2018, 07:12 AM

Great job Paul!! Have to love Michigan weather, If you don't like how it is now wait 10 mins!!!!
Higgy

edwardb

08-29-2018, 11:31 AM

Look what showed up in my garage workshop today.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92181&d=1535559691

If you've been following this build thread, no secret my goal has been to use the new Gen 3 Coyote crate. Over the months I’ve been following the progress closely as Ford Performance prepared for its release. I was able to establish a contact at Ford Performance who has been very gracious to let me know the status whenever I asked. They are still a couple weeks away from general public release. But late last week I was given the opportunity to purchase a Gen 3 engine and control pack in advance of the general release. Working through a dealer I completed the deal. No surprise the Gen 3 is more expensive. Yesterday the control pack was delivered. Today the engine itself. I’m just starting to digest the new instructions and what differences I’ve uncovered so far. But thought I'd throw some pictures out there. My plan right now is to drop just the engine into the Coupe chassis, like I did with #8674, to determine and finalize the best routing and layout for everything. I’ll get going on that right away.

The control pack is pretty similar to the Gen 2. Same PDB and a lot of the same connections. Same exact DBW pedal. Just one clutch switch like the later Gen 2’s. Combined ODB2 plug and MIL also like later Gen 2’s. And also simpler power connection, also as I believe is on later Gen 2’s. Differences I’ve noticed so far: The overall harness is much simpler and shorter than the early Gen 2 I have in #8674. Should fit without a lot of extra. The pigtail connection has been slimmed down to just three wires. Fuel pump, start sense, ignition sense. Still no tach wire. I asked Ford about this and they told me starting in 2015 the PCM’s didn’t have a proper tach signal for aftermarket gauges. So back to tapping one of the coil wires like before. The O2 sensors have their own harness. Unlike the Gen 2 that were attached to the engine. The instructions describe setting the fuel regulator at 65 PSI vs. 55 on the previous models. I’m guessing because of the added direct injection? But it has its own pump on the engine. Who knows. One big difference is the Bosch PCM vs the Continental PCM from before. My old company lost the contract I guess. I didn’t put the two side-by-side. But it does appear slightly larger. From what I hear at Ford Performance, a lot going on there compared to before with the additions to the Gen 3. I’ll describe more as I learn more and proceed with the installation. But here’s a pic with the parts received. The stock air box pieces are still in the box. Other than the MAF sensor, nothing usable. Too bad.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92180&d=1535559685

The engine itself I’d seen before at Autorama and also posted pictures. But a little different now that it’s actually in my garage. Not a lot to say at this point since I literally just unwrapped it a couple hours ago. Nice to see Ford shipped it with a proper engine cradle vs. blocks on the skid. Some new plumbing to figure out. Looks like the CMCV setup is plumbed differently. That was a subject of a bunch of forum posts with the Gen 2. Looks like we’ll get to start that again! Obviously the top of the heads are now completely covered with wiring, plumbing, etc. because of the DI. Most have seen the new UFO looking engine cover for the Gen 3. Will think about what to do after it’s in the chassis. One major thing I noticed, and I hadn’t learned about this before, is that the 2018 Mustang manual setup has a dual mass flywheel and twin disc clutch. You can see the different flywheel in the pics. Will have to figure out what this means. Nice upgrade, but hopefully doesn’t affect my already on-hand QuickTime bell housing and Tilton hydraulic throw-out bearing. I purchased the Coyote engine lift brackets offered on the forum by TD Motion. Decided those would work better than the homemade ones I used before. Just bolted them on and they fit perfectly. Here are pictures and will provide more updates later as I dig into it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92182&d=1535559701

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92185&d=1535559737

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92183&d=1535559708

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92184&d=1535559716

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92186&d=1535559746

q4stix

08-29-2018, 02:01 PM

So cool! Glad to see it fit perfectly into your build timeline!

I have a McLeod twin disk clutch setup ready for mine and it's supposed to fit in the same Quicktime bellhousing. With the Tilton being adjustable, I think you're safe.

P100DHG

08-29-2018, 05:18 PM

edwardb

08-29-2018, 09:54 PM

So it’s definitely not the prettiest engine ever. Any ideas on how you’ll tackle the aesthetics? Sorry but I have to ask. I’m in the same boat. I’m imagining how to make this look right and you are miles ahead of me so what’s your thoughts?

You're right. It's not going to win any beauty contests. Especially not at this stage. But then neither were the previous Coyote versions. Like most modern computer controlled EFI engines, there are wires and hoses all over the place. With the added direct injection (DI) on the Gen 3, there are even more. No longer possible to use coil covers as on previous Coyotes. Which helped some and could themselves be dress-up pieces. Note that in the one side view picture, the PCM harness connection is just draped over the head. That won't be there or nearly as visible once the engine is installed. But to your point, I don't have too many thoughts about this yet. I'm going to get the engine into the chassis and see how much really shows. That makes a difference. I'm not expecting to use Ford's new top cover. At least not in stock form. There's even more going on in the basically wide open Coupe engine compartment. Once the front cowl is raised. A/C hoses, heater hoses, radiator hoses, battery cables, chassis wiring, the list goes on. It's going to be a busy place no matter what. I'll do my best to keep it all neat and organized and see where it goes from there. Not much else to say at this point.

Jeff Kleiner

08-30-2018, 06:00 AM

Measured it just for you. :D 60-1/4 inches. That's with the Eibach 90.4.25.010.3 Pro-Spacer Wheel Spacer Kit, 25mm (1 inch) parts I'm using.

Thank you! Very much appreciated :)

Jeff

edwardb

08-30-2018, 04:07 PM

Have spent some hours since checking how things fit after receiving the Gen 3 Coyote yesterday. This is where the excitement of doing something new meets with reality. Still a long ways to go, but thought I’d post what I’ve learned so far. Some things seem OK. But a couple of challenges. Open to suggestions here!!!

First the good. Energy Suspension motor mounts, QuickTime bell housing, A/C compressor, Moroso oil pan bolt pattern, all fit OK based on actual assembly check. Exhaust headers, starter motor, alternator, location for KRC power steering, radiator and heater and PCV hose locations and connections all LOOK exactly the same comparing to the Gen 2 Coyote in #8674. Obviously I’ll be checking with real parts once received. But looks OK for now. I’ll also mention I studied the vacuum connections on the CMCV setup, and it appears to be connected to a vacuum source right from the factory. I'll need to confirm, but looks like this won’t be something that needs to be addressed on the Gen 3. This has tripped up and confused a lot of builders before. Now hopefully no longer. I removed the oil cooler, like was necessary before. That also is exactly the same needing the shorter oil filter adapter. I also learned from my last build and caught all the oil in a brand new 5 gallon plastic pail with a sealing lid. Just over 2-1/2 gallons drained out. I’ll put it back in once the engine is installed. That’s $50 or so of 5w-20 synthetic oil that I didn’t make allowances to save the last time. Lesson learned.

Now for the challenges. I’ve uncovered two (so far…) and both are relatively significant.

1. The dual mass flywheel (already installed from the factory) and twin disc clutch (purchased separately) new with the Gen 3 Coyote will NOT work with my already purchased QuickTime bell housing and T-56 transmission. The input shaft on the T-56 is 4.5625 inches from the face of the bell housing to where the shaft would be against the race of the pilot bearing. With the QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing on the engine, that same distance with the dual mass flywheel is 3.375 inches. A difference of 1.1875 and no possible way to work. The RM-8080 bell is the only option for the Coyote + T-56 combination at this time. The GM version of the T-56 (the only other one available) is almost an inch longer input than the Ford version I have. So no relief on either front right now. My plan at the moment is to remove the dual mass flywheel and replace with a M-6375-M50 billet flywheel like I used on #8674. I’m HOPING the crankshaft has the same 8-bolt connection underneath the currently installed dual mass flywheel and the usual pocket for the pilot bearing. The bolts are large Torx heads that I don’t have a bit for. I’ll get to the store tomorrow and get them off. Holding my breath. I’m happy with the Ford Performance billet flywheel and clutch (dual friction Centerforce part) in #8674, so as long as it fits I’ll be OK with it. Maybe the dual mass flywheel has some eBay or Craigslist value.

2. I was warned about this one, and turned out to be true. Like most everyone doing Coyote builds, I used the low profile Moroso 20570 with Moroso 24570 pickup on #8674. Had the same parts ready to go and now have found Ford has changed the oil pump on the Gen 3 Coyote. No longer uses a bolt-on pickup but instead a slip-in fitting that’s part of the new composite oil pan. Additionally, the new oil pan has the windage tray/pan gasket as part of the pan where it was separate before. Easy enough to buy and install the windage tray/gasket. Not so easy on the pickup. I just sent a message to Moroso asking if they have plans to offer a new/updated pickup. Not optimistic, at least in the short term, but see what happens. Might be possible to modify the current Moroso piece, but haven’t studied that yet. Need to proceed with caution here as an improper connection would quickly destroy the engine. I'm going to leave the stock pan on the engine when I do my initial mock-up, so I'll see just how far it hangs below the frame. Expecting that to be a no-go, but I'll check. So no answer on this one yet. Here are couple pictures.

Current Moroso parts with Gen 3 oil pan.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92272&d=1535662506

Underside of Gen 3 engine showing new pump and pickup.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92273&d=1535662514

Matt K.

08-30-2018, 05:15 PM

Paul - is that a plastic pickup tube on the factory pan? Wow. Four-bolt mains next to a plastic pick-up tube. I wonder if that's standard practice in the automotive industry these days?

shark92651

08-30-2018, 06:00 PM

I know you have to be happy to finally have that bad boy in the garage, hopefully you can get the parts compatibility figured out without too much pain/cost. Have you contacted FFR to see if/when they are looking at Gen 3 compatibility?

edwardb

08-30-2018, 06:30 PM

Paul - is that a plastic pickup tube on the factory pan? Wow. Four-bolt mains next to a plastic pick-up tube. I wonder if that's standard practice in the automotive industry these days?

Yes, that's a plastic pick-up. Attached to the plastic oil pan. I can't say how common it is. Don't usually buy a new engine and then take it apart. :rolleyes: These things undergo significant long term testing. So not too worried about it. But agree it's a little different. BTW, not just 4-bolt mains in the Coyote. Also side bolts through the block into the bearing caps. Pretty stout.

I know you have to be happy to finally have that bad boy in the garage, hopefully you can get the parts compatibility figured out without too much pain/cost. Have you contacted FFR to see if/when they are looking at Gen 3 compatibility?

Factory Five does have a Gen 3 in house. But no control pack. So they haven't started looking at it yet.

q4stix

08-31-2018, 01:20 PM

1. The dual mass flywheel (already installed from the factory) and twin disc clutch (purchased separately) new with the Gen 3 Coyote will NOT work with my already purchased QuickTime bell housing and T-56 transmission. The input shaft on the T-56 is 4.5625 inches from the face of the bell housing to where the shaft would be against the race of the pilot bearing. With the QuickTime RM-8080 bell housing on the engine, that same distance with the dual mass flywheel is 3.375 inches. A difference of 1.1875 and no possible way to work. The RM-8080 bell is the only option for the Coyote + T-56 combination at this time. The GM version of the T-56 (the only other one available) is almost an inch longer input than the Ford version I have. So no relief on either front right now. My plan at the moment is to remove the dual mass flywheel and replace with a M-6375-M50 billet flywheel like I used on #8674. I’m HOPING the crankshaft has the same 8-bolt connection underneath the currently installed dual mass flywheel and the usual pocket for the pilot bearing.

Hmm, that is interesting. It looks like Ford decided to move the pilot bearing to the center mass location of the dual clutch flywheel. Maybe a bit strange but I can understand how that would support the longer flywheel and clutch better. I'll have to take a look at my twin disk clutch and see if I can spot the differences. Maybe it's the fact that it's a dual mass flywheel that is causing the extra length even with it looking 'dished'

edwardb

08-31-2018, 05:09 PM

Hmm, that is interesting. It looks like Ford decided to move the pilot bearing to the center mass location of the dual clutch flywheel. Maybe a bit strange but I can understand how that would support the longer flywheel and clutch better. I'll have to take a look at my twin disk clutch and see if I can spot the differences. Maybe it's the fact that it's a dual mass flywheel that is causing the extra length even with it looking 'dished'

That's definitely the reason my bell housing/T-56 combination won't work. The pilot bearing is moved way out. Confirmed today by taking it apart. See the following update.

edwardb

08-31-2018, 05:13 PM

Today I was able to get the Gen 3 Coyote into the Gen 3 Coupe chassis. All by myself. But then no flywheel, clutch, bell housing or transmission. Just the engine itself. So that’s cheating. I’ll definitely get help when it’s time to put the whole thing in. But this let’s me work on placement for everything in the engine compartment. Glad I’m taking this step because things are pretty tight.

What I learned today: In general, the fit isn’t as tight as the Roadster. It’s close to sheet metal in a few places, but nothing like the clearances in the Roadster. Exhaust header bolt access is pretty open on the passenger side, and all but the very back one on the drivers side also pretty accessible. For now I’m going to leave the original studs. The only one in question will be that back one on the DS. May shorten it or just use a regular bolt for that one spot. Oil filter is accessible. Without the factory cooler of course. Front dress on the engine (alternator, PS, A/C) all open and accessible. Starter motor also is fine. The direct injection (DI) pump on the PS head, discussed at some length in earlier posts, clears OK. Amazingly similar to the computer generated plots from Factory Five I posted. But the connector body attached to it was pretty hard against the top chassis rail as the engine was going down. So chose to move it out of the way to not damage anything. It’s a diaphragm style pump with a plunger that's actuated by the cam. With the two nuts removed, and the attached fuel line, lifts out of the way pretty easily. Once the engine is in, goes back together and clears everything just fine.

Over the next days I’ll be determining locations for the remaining components. I don’t see any choice but to put the PCM on the PS above the headers. Same as typically done with the Roadster. Will be congested over there with heat and A/C lines and components. But don’t see any other options. With the Roadster, it was necessary to remove the steering shaft when dropping in the Coyote. With this Coupe, not a hard interference point. I didn’t move it this time. But it’s a little bit in the way and will move it out of the way in the next round. The PDB will be somewhere on the firewall or foobox corners. Tight but should fit. Fuel pump regulator will be on the corner of the DS footbox. Not much else to say. Lots of work ahead now getting this done and as neat and orderly as possible.

Here are pictures from all sides. Similar to other builds with the Coyote engine. Just the added spaghetti from the Gen 3 Coyote.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92342&d=1535751856

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92341&d=1535751848

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92340&d=1535751841

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92339&d=1535751833

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92338&d=1535751823

As can be seen in the pics, the tops of the heads are above the frame rails. Without the coil covers as the previous Coyotes, all the wiring and plumbing is hanging out for all to see. Don’t think much can be done about that. I don’t think the Gen 3 cover with the wings over that area would help at all. In fact, I’m thinking would look pretty out of place. Still an open subject. Probably will only try to do something over the intake itself.

Speaking of open subjects, here’s an update on the two issues I raised in my previous post:

Incompatible Moroso oil pan pickup due to the different oil pump in the Gen 3 Coyote: Heard back from Moroso. They are planning to offer an updated pickup. But no timing was offered. I asked for possible timing in a follow-up. At this point I’m not too optimistic that’s going to be a solution in time for this build. After staring at it for a while and thinking about it, I’m pretty confident I can modify the existing Moroso pickup with some tubing and my friend the welder down the street. Tearing the engine down and changed back to the former pump is absolutely not in the cards.

Incompatible dual mass flywheel: Today I removed the factory provided dual mass flywheel. Would have had to do that anyway to install the QuickTime block plate. Even if it would have worked with my bell housing and T-56 transmission. As best I can tell, the end of the crankshaft is unchanged from the previous version. Maybe even the same part. I’m confident a regular Coyote flywheel can be installed along with a standard clutch. Planning the same parts as used in #8674 as already mentioned. The only thing missing is the pilot bearing. The one in the dual mass flywheel is different. But that’s a standard part (M-7600-C) so will get one along with the other parts and all should be good. I temporarily mounted the block plate and bell and checked the dimension compared to the input shaft of the T-56. It’s perfect. So this is nearing resolution. This is what it looked like under the dual mass flywheel with my QuickTime block plate. I had already purchased new flywheel bolts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92337&d=1535751816

One other difference I noticed. There was another connection and device of some kind in addition to the oil pressure sensor. In the area of the oil filter. Removed the part and did a little digging. Turns out it’s an oil control valve, and appears to be used to route oil into the now removed oil cooler. Seems the F150 version of the Coyote has this valve, and now it’s on the Mustang version as well. Even though it’s not doing anything, I’m going to leave it in place just in case the PCM is expecting it to be there. Same for the oil pressure sensor. For later versions of the Gen 2, instructions were to remove the stock sensor and replace with the required unit for the dash gauge. Apparently the PCM wasn’t using this signal. I don’t know if the Gen 3 is the same, and at this stage might not be able to get a good answer. Simple solution is to leave it and T in the added sensor. Also note the little heat shields around the sensors. Several of those on the engine.

Update March 2020: The Gen 3 Coyote requires the OE oil pressure sender to remain. So a T fitting is required to add the gauge sender. Discussed later in the build thread.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92336&d=1535751808

Still a long ways to go. But feel a lot better about this than I did at this time yesterday.

kehenline

08-31-2018, 06:20 PM

edwardb

08-31-2018, 09:12 PM

glad to see your gen three coyote has arrived. I ordered my coupe and have a 9-30-18 build date. delivery to Fort Wayne should be by oct 10. I ordered with the coyote engine mount so will be closely following your install process. looking forward to following your progress.

Hello to Fort Wayne. Spent a number of years there through two different job stints. Both of our sons were born there and graduated from Northrop High School. Congrats on your upcoming Coupe delivery and build. You're in for a great adventure. Coyote uses the same mounts as other supported engines. But lots of part differences of course.

kehenline

09-01-2018, 08:55 AM

thanks, paul. this will be a new experience for me and I appreciate your encouragement. Northrup is still running strong!

edwardb

09-01-2018, 04:00 PM

Spent some time today dragging parts out of the basement that had been mocked up before and started putting them where they’ll eventually stay. This is where the “One bite at a time…” saying has to be followed. There’s a lot to do but just go one step at a time. I’m feeling relieved I decided to drop the engine in for this stage. It’s tight plus a lot going on. I never would have been able to envision it (or get it right…) without that big chunk in there. Here’s what I’ve learned so far.

Mounted the radiator sheet metal and radiator/condenser. It will be coming off one more time to put the engine in permanently. But I wanted to check out the cool tubes from Boig now that I have the engine locations to aim at. Plus the routing of the upper and lower radiator hoses affects other things. Great news. Both of the Boig tubes fit perfectly! Bob promised they would, and he was right. I was mostly worried about that tiny window to get the lower hose through by the frame and sway bar. But it fits and the alignment to the engine is great. The upper hose also works out well with the cool tube and the control pack provided upper hose. The routing is excellent. Note I’m not using a T-filler since I’m using the Moroso Mustang pressure tank and Mustang hose routing. Same as #8674. Looks like the tank is going to fit in the center under the two cross pieces. Then the cold air intake will fit over into the opening on the DS. Similar to how it’s done in the Roadster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92401&d=1535833704

Draped the various wiring harnesses into their preliminary locations, including the main RF harness, the front RF harness, and the main Coyote harness + PDB. Tentatively I’m planning to put the PDB on the firewall above the DS footbox. Then route the main cable behind the firewall and break into the engine compartment by the PS footbox. That will keep the majority of the cable hidden plus take up a little of the slack. I put enough of the heat and A/C components in to see where they’ll be and have to avoid. I see no choice but to put the Coyote PCM on the PS side above the header area. Very similar to where it's typically installed in a Roadster, as I mentioned before. Will have to get creative with some type of mounting bracket.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92402&d=1535833713

These pictures are just overall of what it looks like now and what I have to get buttoned down. Wiring and related doesn't bother me. Actually kind of enjoy it. But it's easy to see why some get intimidated at this stage. It should look quite different when done.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92400&d=1535833697

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92399&d=1535833689

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92398&d=1535833682

One final comment about a prior subject. The dual mass flywheel that came with the Gen 3 Coyote. As already stated, I’m not going to be able to use it. Ford did make some changes to the MT-82 6-speed for 2018 that’s used in the Mustang to address some issues and make it better. Obviously at the same time they must have shortened the input to match this setup. Perhaps that new MT-82 will be an option some may want to consider for their Gen 3 Coyote builds. Just for grins though I put the now loose dual mass flywheel on a scale. That bad boy weighs 34 pounds. The previous Coyote’s nodular flywheel I measured at 29 pounds. The Ford Performance M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel I have in #8674 and will now use for this build weighs 20 pounds. I’m not a fan of the real light aluminum flywheels for street drivers. But going the other direction to 34 pounds seems really heavy. I probably would have still used it if it fit. But not sure it’s the best for these builds. Comments from someone who knows more about this than me? (Wouldn’t take too much.)

We have a busy couple weeks coming up, including some time away. So this will probably be the last update for a bit. Plus I have a lot to do to make a dent.

kehenline

09-01-2018, 05:25 PM

edwardb

09-02-2018, 06:55 AM

following this and your previous roadster build it looks like you need to install / remove the engine several times to get everything fitted properly. how many time do you typically need to install and remove? I assume these are all without the transmission until the final install? thanks for your input

I really can't say what's typical here. The #8674 20th Anniversary build was an early Gen 2 Coyote. Now the Coupe with an early Gen 3 Coyote. Both before they were being widely used or had instructions updated for these versions or other builders I could learn from. There are some similarities in all Coyote builds. But each version brings a couple of new wrinkles. Plus, in the case of #8674, was my first attempt at installing any Coyote. So for both builds it made sense to me and my build style to put the engine in before alot was finalized. Then determine wire routing, components mounting, etc. from there. In both cases, I chose to do engine only (e.g. less bell housing, trans, etc.) mainly because I'm by myself and that's something I can do by myself. Putting the complete engine in isn't hard and frankly would be better. But takes a couple more people to lift, push, pull, etc. Have friends I can call on for that, but try to keep it to only once. The SBF builds before these the engine went in once and that was it.

So bottom line, do what you're comfortable with and helps you think and work through the build. It's not particularly unusual for guys to take the engine in/out several times during the build. Also not unusual for it to go in once and be done. But the other comment I'd make is it's not hard to take the engine in and out. Especially before the body is on. In the case of the Coupe, without the front cowl. With the proper lift (I use a 2-ton HF shop crane) and the proper preparation, they go in/out in an hour or less.

kehenline

09-02-2018, 07:40 AM

thanks, paul. that make sense. for a first timer like me, it wouldn't be hard to forge ahead without ever putting the engine in and then finding that something has to be redone because it is in the way of the engine. your experience is so valuable to this forum.

edwardb

09-12-2018, 02:37 PM

Was away for several days visiting family. But back home to work, plan, and spend money. Making some progress. Still a long way to go, but here’s where I’m at today.

Dual-mass flywheel: Removed because it won’t work for me, as described before, and have received the following parts, all from Ford Performance:

M-6375-M50 Lightweight Billet 8 Bolt Flywheel
M-7600-C Roller Pilot Bearing - High Load - 4.6L/5.4L/5.0L4
M-7560-T46 Clutch Assembly 26 spline, 11.0 inches (Note: Centerforce dual friction with Ford branding. Nice clutch.)
M-6397-B46 Pressure Plate Bolts and Dowels
M-6379-C Flywheel Bolts

I don’t have everything assembled yet, and won’t until the engine is back out. But I’ve checked and measured everything and all appears to fit perfectly. Note as I mentioned before, this is the exact setup I have in #8674. So this just appears to confirm nothing has changed at this end of the Coyote once that dual-mass flywheel is removed. I mentioned before the 2018 Gen 3 Coyote also uses a twin disk clutch. Just to be clear, that doesn’t come with the crate motor. The previous Coyote crates didn’t include a clutch either. So no change there. The only difference in the shopping list above compared to previous Coyote versions is the pilot bearing and the flywheel. Previous versions already had a pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft. Now you have to add it. Previous versions had a nodular flywheel which many used. I did choose to upgrade to the lighter billet steel version listed above for #8674. So for me wasn’t a difference there. I’ll know for sure when it’s time to assemble all of the above, but I’m 99% confident this issue is resolved.

Moroso oil pickup tube: I heard back from Moroso a second time. First time they confirmed they knew their pickup tube wasn’t compatible with the Gen 3 Coyote. Said they would have an updated part sometime. I followed up asking “When?” and the answer was "TBD. No schedule at this time." So this will hopefully be a solution for other builders. But I’m not optimistic it will be for me. My plan now is to modify the existing pickup. I’ve just ordered a couple pieces of tubing from McMaster. I’m going to use the composite oil pan with the new style connection to make a fixture and cut/weld the old style Moroso pickup to fit the new pump and the Moroso low profile pan. I’m confident this will work fine. Will provide updates when completed.

Since the last update, received the Ford Performance M-8600-M50BALT 5.0 Alternator Kit, same as used on previous Coyotes. It fits fine. Also since the last update, have determined the location and method for mounting the PCM. I’m going to make a bracket that sandwiches it against the chassis tube in the location pictured previously. Will provide updates when completed. I’ve started the modification to the DBW module (accelerator pedal) and am using some ideas from another builder to re-use the existing pedal rather than the FFR supplied pedal piece. Looks like it’s going to work well. I’ll finalize that later when I have easier access to the footbox. One surprise (disappointment…) is that FFR put a nice mounting plate in the footbox that exactly matches the mounting screws on the Coyote DBW. Clearly they’re expecting lots of people to use a Coyote and DBW module. Unfortunately, it’s about 1/2-inch too high. Mounted in the holes provided, the connector for the DBW runs into the steering column. Easy enough fix to drill new holes. But missed it by that much… I've also decided to go with an Odyssey battery. The stock location is in the front, but height is somewhat limited by the steering rack. The Odyssey PC925T fits nicely. Same one recommended for the Hot Rod, and recommended by lots of builders. Small and relatively light.

New issues/findings: The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote appears to be another change. The inlet is the same diameter. But it’s angled UP 8-9 degrees more than the previous Coyotes. So some care is needed to use a right angle connector that turns down quickly because the underside of the cowl is already pretty close to the throttle body. The FFR listed Spectre parts, which I have in #8674, don’t look like they will fit. Both because of that and also because of the chassis bar in front of the engine. I’ve looked at a number of other aftermarket cold air intakes (Rousch, JLT, BBK, etc.) and doesn’t look like they’ll fit either. Granted one of my issues is I’m also trying to install the Moroso radiator pressure tank. So have to work around that too. After some research and lots of measuring, have ordered some parts from Treadstone Performance that I think (hope) will work. They just shipped so don’t have an update yet. But will when received and checked out.

Next finding, and last one for this update, is the famous Gen 3 Coyote engine cover. I went ahead and ordered one with the other parts listed above. Popped it on last night. First impressions are that it doesn’t look “too bad.” (Be nice when you see it. Remember what your Mother taught you. If you can't say anything nice...) But looks like the front outside corners of the “wings” hit the underside of the front cowl. Right now I’m just mocking up the location of the front cowl as best I can, so it’s possible it might barely fit when the cowl is actually installed. But it’s really close. The wings also really don’t do too much to cover up the wiring and tubing on the top of the heads. So my tentative plan for now is that I’m going to cut the wings off. I actually think it will look decent at that point. I do like the cleaner lines and sharper styling of the new cover compared to previous versions. With it cut off (I added lines in the picture below to show where I’m thinking to trim it) it will cover up some things and I think look OK. Probably will get some kind of custom painting on it like #8674. Without the wings, I also think it will clear the underside of the cowl. I’m not going to do anything with the cover for now. Will wait until I’m further along to cut and finish. But that’s the initial idea/impression. And just in case someone suggests changing the intake to something different (and better looking…) the Gen 3 stock intake is changed from previous versions and is getting great reviews in multiple tests. One of many changes making the Gen 3 closer to the GT350. Some are even using it as an upgrade to previous Gen Coyotes. So changing the intake isn’t going to happen for multiple reasons. Here are pictures. Onward and upward.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93099&d=1536778444

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93101&d=1536778460

David Williamson

09-13-2018, 08:43 AM

cgundermann

09-13-2018, 09:10 AM

Doesn’t look too bad. A big canvas to be artistic with...

As usual, very very nice work thus far Paul. Appreciate the Gen 3 info. I might be ordering a 33 for my bride and I’m considering that motor.

Chris

edwardb

09-13-2018, 09:47 AM

in the first picture the cover looks like it really cleans up the look but then in the second picture well, not so much. I think you will need to see it with the body and hood in place to decide.
oh, and as always great pictures and information.
David W

Thanks. Yea I'm not sure how different it will look with the body and front cowl since the front tips up and exposes everything pretty much like the pictures show. But I agree. I put the unmodified cover back in the box and will decide when things are more finalized. Can validate the fit and what it looks like. What I did learn is that I will use at least some of it.

P100DHG

09-15-2018, 01:01 AM

I’ve been slammed at work and just caught up with your thread and wow. Huge progress!

Id say make cardboard template. Paint it black and see how it looks before your cut into that plastic engine cover. I actually like it better without. I’m not offended by the wires. It’s growing on me actually. Also I like the look of the intake and it covers that up. Maybe even something fabricated from aluminum might look cool too if it doesn't cause interference. One other thought would be maybe a body matching color on an engine cover or shroud will bring some continuity into that area and draw attention to the cover and away from the wires if you don’t like the wires.

Working this stuff out is half the fun I’m sure. Enjoy!

Paul G

09-15-2018, 07:54 PM

edwardb

09-16-2018, 07:14 AM

While I haven't officially mounted my computer yet I did a mock a couple months ago, after looking at my 2016 Mustang GT the computer is mounted just off the front corner of the passenger head, far enough forward from the exhaust and tuck in, that is general area where I'll be mounting my computer soon as thing cool off a bit, 107 in Phx today too hot right now.

Agreed. Ford designed the harness on the engine for the PCM to be mounted in that general area. The 2018 is similar. Some guys take apart the harness so it can be re-routed and mount the PCM on/near the firewall. But I'm not going to try that. Not just because I don't want to break into the cable, but also because the firewall area (and behind) is also really crowded plus there'd be 4-5 feet of extra harness to deal with from the PDB. Yesterday I completed a mount for my PCM and will show some details in my next update. It ended up in a similar location between the frame rails as I showed in a previous update and picture. It's tight with everything else going on. But I think it will work.

edwardb

09-18-2018, 02:17 PM

Plugging away on details for the Gen 3 Coyote installation. Have basically determined how I’m going to deal with two major items: PCM mounting/cable routing and cold air intake.

PCM mounting: Some of this I’ve talked about before. The large harness and connector coming off the engine terminates near the front corner of the RH head. Without modifying the cable, really no choice but to put the PCM in that vicinity. I know some guys unwrap the cable and then mount the PCM in the firewall or PS footbox area. Thought briefly about that. But the harness is complex (wires exit along its path for each injector, coil pack, multiple sensors, and now the new DI hardware) and I just don’t want to dive into it. Plus it’s already congested in the firewall area and beyond with the A/C and heat, accessories I’ve added, etc. Plus I'd have a whole bunch of excess cable between the PCM and PDB to deal with. So I’m staying with mounting it near the RH front of the engine. Note this is nearly identical to the location used on #8674 and how FFR shows in their instructions for the Roadster. I know some are concerned about the headers in that area. But it hasn’t proven to be an issue. These modules are made for the harsh underhood environment. Within reason of course. Note also this is the same general area that Ford mounts them in the Mustang. What’s interesting though is in the Mustang it’s packed in with a lot of other stuff and doesn’t appear that it would have much airflow around it. As opposed to ours that are more free-standing. So seems to me it’s completely safe there.

So for the actual mounting, the new Bosch PCM with the Gen 3 only has two mounting ears near the connectors, versus the four the previous version has. Plus they’re not too friendly to attach to IMO. I decided to make a bracket that sandwiches the PCM and holds it suspended under the frame rail in the area mentioned. After some patterns, prototypes, and one fail, have finalized on a piece of 1-1/2 inch right angle aluminum riveted to the frame rail, and a wraparound bracket made from mild steel. I have nutserts in the aluminum bracket and will use 1/8 inch cushioning material where the PCM is contacted. Looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93738&d=1537294727

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93739&d=1537294735

My first approach was to mount the PCM facing down, e.g. wire connections on the bottom. I thought it looked a little neater. Like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93740&d=1537294743

But after thinking about it a couple days and sitting and staring at it for awhile (that again…) decided that wasn’t such a good plan. The wiring was way too congested with everything else, no clear path for the large harness that needs to go back to the PDB, plus the connectors and wires would be the closest thing to the header area. So flipped it over and this is what I’m going with:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93741&d=1537294751

This will get cleaned up a bunch for the final installation. The large center connector is from the engine, obviously. The front connector goes to the PDB. That harness needs to be re-configured quite a bit. I’ll unwrap it and bring the starter and fan wires back to the PDB area. Probably also the engine connections (alternator, MAF, etc.). That will make the cable a little skinnier where it's visible FWIW. I’ll run the cable along the outside of the top frame rail, along the bottom of the firewall, and to the PDB near the center of the firewall. I was hoping to hide the cable a little more than that, but just not in the cards. There will be heater and A/C hoses all over the place in the same area. So I’m thinking it’s no big deal. The rear connector, BTW, is only for the O2 sensors. Ford changed how they’re wired again. So all three Gen Coyotes have been different. In this case, the wires go directly from here to the sensors. It too, though, will need to be reconfigured to be optimal. That’s as far as I’m going to go for now. When the engine mockup comes out, I’ll get everything mounted and wired for good.

Cold air intake: Some of this I mentioned before too. The throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote points up 8-9 degrees more than before. Plus the cowl is relatively close on the underside. I looked at several of the Mustang aftermarket cold air intake kits, but didn't see one that would fit. The Spectre setup FFR has in their instructions and I have in #8674 won’t fit either. They do mention a MAF tube from Treadstone Performance. In looking at that piece plus other items on their website, came up with a combination that I hoped would fit. Received the parts today, and all is good. I’m impressed with the quality of the parts too. I’m especially pleased the MAF tube has rolled ends. So properly clamped they shouldn’t come apart. (Reference “Ride of Shame” thread for #8674…) The right angle coupler is very robust. I’ll need to add a connector for the PCV hose, but that’s easy enough. The parts I received are:

S35090BLK 90 Degree Silicone Hose Coupler 3.50" - 3.50" (103411-128578) Black
MAPHL35 MAF Mass Air Flow Adapter Pipe, 3.50" Low (103748-129055) Polished aluminum
AF10044BLK Air Filter Medium 3.5" Neck (104214-129638) Black

Factory Five also sells this same Treadstone MAF tube. Their part number 16403. They also sell a 90deg Silicone Hose – FFR#16404, and Coyote Air Filter – FFR#16608. But I don't know if those two are the same has what I bought directly from Treadstone. I had to cut 1-inch off the right angle coupler where it plugs onto the throttle body. It was too long as I suspected from their pictures. With that, it fits up exactly like I hoped. Based on pictures and measurements taken previously, it will fit under the front cowl.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93742&d=1537294766

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93744&d=1537294783

The cold air intake leaves just enough room for the Moroso cooling system expansion tank. It’s tight, but not quite as tight as the angle on this picture indicates.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=93743&d=1537294775

On a related note, on the Treadstone Performance website they promoted the use of a honeycomb airflow straightener in the MAF tube. Installed at the neck of the tube on the air filter side to clean up the air going through the sensor. Did a little Google searching, and maybe has some merit. Supposedly improves MAF readings at lower RPM's. So added one to my order. Thinking I'll just keep it aside for the moment. But something I'll take a look at down the road. Next up is to make brackets for the Moroso expansion tank and finalize the Odyssey battery mount. Then the engine will come back out.

jdavis500

09-21-2018, 10:50 AM

David Williamson

09-21-2018, 11:05 AM

kind of like a chess match - have to think a few moves ahead as you figure out where everything goes. All part of the fun with the build.
as I have said many times "if it was easy everyone would have one"
David W

edwardb

09-21-2018, 11:46 AM

I had initially mounted my Moroso tank on the angle frame at the front DS. It is solid with nice bracket fab, but I don't like how it looks at an angle. Now I am reconfiguring and see that I can squeeze it in where you propose yours. I am completely racking my brain on how to build a bracket. Lots of angles and a fair moment on the tank mounting tab due to the weight of the full recovery tank. I am interested to see what you come up with. Also, I am going to try an F150 upper radiator hose. I am thinking it will take the turns better. Just curious. WHat is your battery plan. Is that brake line(to front PS) going to be in your way?

Just finishing up the bracket I came up with for the Moroso tank. You're right, lots of angles and an interesting challenge. I'm sure there are multiple ways it could be done. But I'll show what I came up with in the next couple days. The upper radiator hose I'm showing here is what came with the 2018 control pack and it snakes around the tank location perfectly. That was lucky. I'm also working on my battery mount today. I'm using a smaller Odyssey battery and a mount made for it. It fits in the same general area as Factory Five shows for the stock mounting. The brake line isn't an issue. The battery will be forward of where that crosses. I'll have pictures of that in the next couple of days as well.

edwardb

09-24-2018, 09:36 PM

Today I finished everything I wanted to do planning wire and hose routing, accessory mounting, etc. So lifted the engine back out of the engine bay and onto the stand for now. Easy enough to do without a bell housing and transmission in the way. Put the chassis back on the lift. Good to have it back there. Man I am definitely spoiled. First thing I did once I had it out was install the M-7600-C pilot bearing and check the fit of the M-7560-T46 flywheel. Everything fits fine so that little issue is completely closed as far as I’m concerned. I had the pilot bearing in the freezer and it drove right in using a 1-inch socket around the perimeter. Also had the clutch dowels in the freezer so drove those into the flywheel. Tomorrow I’m going to put the accessories on the engine (alternator, A/C pump, KRC power steering) and then start working on the modification to the Moroso oil pan pickup.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94143&d=1537840244

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94144&d=1537840252

Here is a picture of the Odyssey PC925T battery I’m using. Relatively small and easily fits in this location. Listed as 28 lbs, but I haven’t weighed it. Since it’s AGM, I can use the same CTEK 3300 charger I’ve been using for the Optima in #8674. After looking at a number of choices, including the kit provided battery tray, decided to go with this Artec Industries OY9251 battery mount. Had to drill new holes in the base because the ones they had didn’t line up with the frame. But that was easy. Held in place with four heavy duty 1/4-inch nutserts. I’ll have it powder coated before final installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94142&d=1537840236

Also finished the mounting bracket for the Moroso radiator expansion tank. After thinking through several approaches, this is what I went with. The mounting location isn’t real handy, so took some unusual shapes and angles to get it done. The main mount is .090 aluminum, and the braces are .052 aluminum with a 1/2-thick aluminum piece between. My little H-F brake won’t touch these thicknesses, so bent all the pieces in my bench vise using angle iron and a wood block and hammer. Kind of dings the aluminum up a bit. But will be completely hidden plus powder coated. There are two 5/16-inch nutserts for the flange mount on the tank, and then the bottom piece fits into the receptacle on the bottom of the tank along with a piece of cut heater hose for a cushion. Now that I have the engine out, I can reach the mounting location and will install with three heavy duty 5/16-inch nutserts. Same kind as shown on the mount itself. Just with the clamps, it’s rock sold so I’m confident it will be OK.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94139&d=1537840212

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94140&d=1537840220

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94141&d=1537840226

So last night as I was wrapping up this mount, I realized how much lower it is than the same tank in #8674. Not sure how or why I didn't see this before. Further checking shows the top of the tank is basically even with the “T” connection on the LH side of the engine where the hose out the bottom of the tank is connected. Visible in the last picture above with the black cap. Since this is the intended fill path for coolant through the cap on the expansion tank, and fluid isn't going to go uphill any further than the level in the tank (at least when gravity is the only motivation) decided I might have a problem. My first inclination was to go back to the drawing board. Ugh. But with the time and money invested in this setup so far, not giving up so easily. With the available space, the frame design including the large angle braces across the opening, and everything else that needs to fit into this same real estate, there’s no easy option that I can see that would raise this tank any higher.

Did a whole bunch of searching, both in the forums and otherwise, and thought it about it a bunch. Here’s my conclusion: The only real problem will be the initial coolant fill and subsequent flush/re-fills down the road. The heater hose connection just above the “T” where the hose from the tank attaches (also visible in the last picture above), can be removed and coolant filled there with a funnel or whatever. Although not ideal, since it happens pretty rarely, not a big deal. Once the system is full and sealed and under pressure, the expansion tank will still do what it’s intended to do. It will still burp the cooling system from the connection on top of the engine and top of the radiator. It will still accept excess coolant as it heats and expands, and will be drawn back into the system as it cools. In that regard, no different than a standard overflow tank that is often mounted quite low in the engine compartment. I thought about installing the kit provided T-filler in the upper radiator hose and use that for filling. But that adds two more joints in the hose plus the cap. I can live with using the heater hose connection.

I contacted the Ford Performance help desk to see what their take was and if they thought my thinking made sense. Not much help to be honest. Response was “mount the tank as high as you can,” “mount it the same height as the engine,” (asked what part of the engine, but no answer), and “mount it higher than the tanks on the radiator.” It is. That’s not an issue. Because of the forward location and angle of the radiator, the side tanks are well below the expansion tank. That was all I got. No stoppers. But no firm endorsement of my plan either.

Bottom line, even though the expansion tank is lower than ideal and will take a little special handing for the initial fill, I don’t see it working any differently than the FFR supplied T-filler and overflow tank. Actually it’s better because it has the provision for burping via the engine and radiator connections. Anyone have any thoughts about this and reasons why I shouldn’t go ahead with mounting the Moroso tank where pictured?

shark92651

09-25-2018, 08:16 AM

Impressive mounting bracket, especially for vise bending!

David Williamson

09-25-2018, 09:06 AM

Is the expansion tank pressurized? and if it is just connected to the cooling system with a hose it needs to be high up. But if you have a rad cap on the upper rad hose and have a non-presurized recovery tank it can be lower. The vacuum in the cooling system will pull the coolant up from the tank.
David W

edwardb

09-25-2018, 10:54 AM

Impressive mounting bracket, especially for vise bending!

Thanks. Just a little patience and more time than I want to admit. Something us retired guys usually have.

Is the expansion tank pressurized? and if it is just connected to the cooling system with a hose it needs to be high up. But if you have a rad cap on the upper rad hose and have a non-presurized recovery tank it can be lower. The vacuum in the cooling system will pull the coolant up from the tank.
David W

Thanks for the input. Not quite following though. Yes, the tank is pressurized. Evidenced by (1) 21 PSI rated cap and usual "Don't open if hot" warning label, and (2) entire cooling system is closed. No vents to atmosphere. This diagram is the Mustang/Coyote cooling system. The OE tank at the top LH corner is replaced with the aftermarket Moroso tank I'm using that's made for that purpose. The hose connections will all be exactly the same. The hose from the tank to the top of the radiator has a check valve. Allows air from the radiator to vent to the expansion tank. But no flow the other direction. This diagram is marked 2011, but best I can tell nothing has changed since. Also ignore the yellow annotation. That's showing a heater bypass that Ford recommends if not using a heater

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94153&d=1537889337

Erik W. Treves

09-25-2018, 11:36 AM

FWIW.. I mounted my higher as I wanted the air to be trapped there...

edwardb

09-25-2018, 08:35 PM

FWIW.. I mounted my higher as I wanted the air to be trapped there...

Thanks Erik. Appreciate the input. Not sure I understand though. Air is going to be forced into the expansion tank by pressure through the two vent lines discussed and also pictured in the above diagram. The several inches of difference we're talking about here (compared to how it's installed in my Roadster) shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something?

edwardb

09-25-2018, 08:40 PM

Wasn’t planning to do an update today. But made some good progress today that I thought might be interesting. Got the engine off the shop crane and onto the engine stand. With that done, started on the front accessories. Installed the KRC power steering, A/C compressor, and standard Coyote alternator. Good news, everything fits. No surprises with the Gen 3 Coyote. Couple of notes for each.

The KRC kit is their 66302125 Ford Boss 302 Coyote Hydraulic Power Steering Kit. Comes with the pump and pulley, reservoir, mounting bracket, new water pump pulley, and serpentine belt. Note I'm nearly positive this is the same kit that Factory Five supplies with their Coyote power steering kit. I just didn't happen to go that way because I wanted to source my own rack and lines. I have this same kit setup on #8674. But KRC made some significant changes. (Plus raised the price. :eek:) They now only supply their aluminum Elite pump vs. the steel pump on #8674. They’ve also added an integral reservoir, which is super nice. One less thing to mount in the engine compartment and one less hose to deal with. One of the really nice things about the KRC setup is their changeable flow valves. Allows you to fine tune the amount of boost from the system. Unfortunately, the kit comes with their standard 2.22 GPM flow valve. That’s way too much boost for our cars. I changed it to the 1.18 GPM (ID Mark 4) 253040000 flow valve. Same as I have in #8674, which I really like, and what others using the KRC setup have reported works well. For the installation, I had to cut about 1/4-inch off the end of the three mounting screws. They were bottoming in the mounting holes in the head. Don’t recall doing this before. But no big deal. For the water pump pulley, I cut off the Ford screws that were removed from the head and used those for the pulley mount. I like the hex head screws way better than the Allen head screws KRC provided, and they just happened to be the right size with integral washers. Nice. They're the same style as the mounting screws on the OE pulley but are too short for the thicker KRC pulley. I painted the heads of the five KRC supplied cap screws with my trusty Eastwood chassis black. The black oxide rusts quite quickly. A close look at #8674 will prove that. Finally, the pulley on the pump is listed as “press on” but there are threads in the pump shaft and #8674 has a flange head screw installed there. Don’t remember if it came with the kit or not, but this kit didn’t supply one. Quick trip to Ace and that was dealt with.

Nothing much to say about mounting the A/C pump or the alternator. In both cases, just followed the directions and all went together OK. One thing I find somewhat interesting. The serpentine belt driving the water pump and alternator from the crankshaft uses a very typical serpentine tensioning idler pulley. The serpentine belt on the power steering pump, driven from the water pump pulley, is tensioned by adjusting the angle of the pump. The serpentine belt on the A/C pump, driven from the crankshaft, uses a stretching type belt that doesn’t require adjustment or a tensioner. First time I’ve used one of those. Interesting to put on though. Factory Five shows a step-by-step method using a tie-wrap and then turning the crank pulley to roll it on. Worked OK. The final front accessory setup looks pretty crazy. I have no idea why builders get intimidated with the Coyote. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94184&d=1537923085

With that done, flipped the engine over and started working on the Moroso oil pan installation and pickup modification. First thing was to check the fit of the oil pan gasket/windage tray and the Moroso pan. The OE pan for the Gen 3 Coyote is the plastic (composite…) pan I pictured previously with the integral oil pickup and gasket/windage tray. I picked up a Gen 2 gasket/windage tray (part number BR3Z-6710-A) and confirmed it fit fine along with the Moroso pan. All the sealing surfaces are exactly the same and the bolt holes all line up perfectly. Started preliminary work on the pickup mod. First was to confirm the 8491A761 bushing, 1" ID, 1-1/4" OD, 1-1/2" long, that I got from McMaster fit the oil pump inlet. It does. Perfectly. Nice slip fit into the rubber gasket. The ID fits the OD of the Moroso oil pickup tube. So we’re off and running. Tomorrow I plan to get this completely figured out and fixtured for welding. This is the new gasket and you can see the bushing pushed into the oil pump in the lower LH corner of the pic.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94185&d=1537923092

David Williamson

09-26-2018, 07:33 AM

Erik W. Treves

09-26-2018, 07:37 AM

Thanks Erik. Appreciate the input. Not sure I understand though. Air is going to be forced into the expansion tank by pressure through the two vent lines discussed and also pictured in the above diagram. The several inches of difference we're talking about here (compared to how it's installed in my Roadster) shouldn't make any difference. Am I missing something?

The tank is is a degas tank.. not an overflow tank as far as I can tell...meaning it's job is to keep any air at the top of the tank. When the car is running there is a continuous flow of water running through the tank. An overflow tank is used to handle the expansion of fluid with a sealed system that has no air and no room for expansion. The Degas tank uses the air at the top of the tank as "expansion" space.... if the tank is lower than your engine the air will get stuck at the top of the motor. The small hose that goes to the top of the degas tank is meant to have air in it not water.

The expansion/degas tank also has a connection to the cooling system through a by-pass or a heater hose. Therefore, instead of only containing expanded coolant, the expansion tank is actually a part of the complete cooling system and coolant circulates through the tank as it does through the radiator. It’s typically the highest point in the cooling system.

with the tank lower than the engine I am not sure how you will know the system is full... with the engine off and cap removed, the tank will be full even if there is air in the system.

just my .02 anyway...

edwardb

09-26-2018, 12:56 PM

You have a sealed pressurized cooling system that works differently from the older pressurized vented systems that we have on the old Fox Mustang based engines. Your cooling system will be fully pressurized when it is hot and since the coolant expands when it is hot and is non compressible there has to be air in the system to handle the expansion. The air will be at the high point in the system and you want that to be the expansion tank not the engine heads. This is why the tank should be the high point in the cooling system. Hope this make more sense. It is hard to tell from the pictures and I am not familiar with the Coyote engine but you could be Ok.
David W

The tank is is a degas tank.. not an overflow tank as far as I can tell...meaning it's job is to keep any air at the top of the tank. When the car is running there is a continuous flow of water running through the tank. An overflow tank is used to handle the expansion of fluid with a sealed system that has no air and no room for expansion. The Degas tank uses the air at the top of the tank as "expansion" space.... if the tank is lower than your engine the air will get stuck at the top of the motor. The small hose that goes to the top of the degas tank is meant to have air in it not water.

The expansion/degas tank also has a connection to the cooling system through a by-pass or a heater hose. Therefore, instead of only containing expanded coolant, the expansion tank is actually a part of the complete cooling system and coolant circulates through the tank as it does through the radiator. It’s typically the highest point in the cooling system.

with the tank lower than the engine I am not sure how you will know the system is full... with the engine off and cap removed, the tank will be full even if there is air in the system.

just my .02 anyway...

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the explanations you’ve provided. Still trying to digest it all and decide whether to proceed with what I have or not. Here’s a little more information FWIW:

The current location of the tank in the Coupe (and only location that tank is going to get, no place else for it to go…) is a little over 4 inches lower than the exact tank in my Roadster. Maybe seems like more than that from the pictures, but that’s what it is. The Roadster location is roughly exactly the same level as in a Mustang, and has worked perfectly in the now nearly 4,000 miles driven.

Even in the lower location shown, the following are still below the tank: Upper radiator hose, lower radiator hose connection, thermostat, water pump, complete engine block, all but maybe top 10-15% of the heads, radiator side tanks. The only thing cooling related not below the tank compared to the setup in the Roadster is the filler “T” fitting I described before and the very top of the heads. But looking at pictures of the cooling passages in the heads, they’re all lower than the tank.

So even though it’s probably less than optimal due to the fill issue already described, I’m still leaning toward using the setup as is. Hopefully I’m not rationalizing myself into a bad decision here. I understand completely about the concern of trapping air in the system. But based on what I’ve described, not sure where that would be. All air would still be lower than the tank and in the end, how is this setup any worse than capping the vents like the Factory Five instructions show? Which I’m not doing. A whole bunch of builds are running around with the vents capped. Obviously makes burping during the initial fill a very important step, in either case. But once that’s done, not sure I see the downside.

Anything I’m missing? Thanks again.

David Williamson

09-26-2018, 02:12 PM

The top part of the heads is all cams and valve train so as long as the cooling passages are lower than the degas tank you are good to go.
would hate to see the engine get wrecked
David W

jdavis500

09-27-2018, 08:13 AM

I appreciate the detail on this topic. Attached is the one other location that will work for the Moroso tank. Much higher, but not pleasing to the eye.

94248

edwardb

09-27-2018, 02:03 PM

I appreciate the detail on this topic. Attached is the one other location that will work for the Moroso tank. Much higher, but not pleasing to the eye.

94248

Thanks for your input. That doesn't look bad, and is one of the locations I considered. It fit OK. But with the different throttle body on the Gen 3 Coyote, I had trouble coming up with a CAI that would fit the direction you show. Based on what I could find, I had to take the CAI into that area to fit the available space including the cowl height. It's kind of like a giant Tetris puzzle figuring it all out.

Just puttering

09-27-2018, 02:58 PM

Post #407
Quick note on the honeycomb for the air flow, for those that want to go deeper on the subject, look up diy laminar flow fountains. They use drinking straws to smooth the flow of water, similar to the honeycomb for air ! Does it help with the MAF? I have no clue

P100DHG

09-28-2018, 11:03 AM

Sorry for the stupid question but doesn’t factory five figure this stuff out for you and give the proper parts and mounting locations? Sorry I’m a newby

edwardb

09-28-2018, 11:33 AM

Sorry for the stupid question but doesn’t factory five figure this stuff out for you and give the proper parts and mounting locations? Sorry I’m a newby

Not a stupid question at all. Probably eventually. There aren't specific Coyote instructions for the Gen 3 Coupe. Previously, the Roadster ones were applicable because the frame was similar enough to the prior Coupe. But nothing posted for the Coyote in the Gen 3 Coupe. Much of the prior instructions would still apply, but there are going to be differences. Add to that I'm doing a Gen 3 Coyote, which is way too new. Last I heard from Factory Five they do have a Gen 3 Coyote (installing in a 33 Hot Rod for SEMA as I understand) but don't have the Gen 3 Controls Pack yet. I was very lucky to get mine early.

Hopefully this comes out the right way and is positive to both you and Factory Five, because it's meant to be. But even a 100% stock build (whatever that means since there are so many different option combinations) will have areas not covered in the instructions to the last detail and will require you to problem solve and figure out. That's the nature of these builds. Hopefully you're prepared for that. If not, you'll be disappointed. I've seen it happen.

kehenline

10-05-2018, 02:38 PM

For the brake, I use the 30-inch one from Harbor Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/30-inch-bending-brake-67240.html. Pretty basic. One of these days I'm going to spring for a real box brake. But this one works OK for thin materials and simple fabrication. For cutting, if it fits, I use my bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Where it doesn't fit, use a sabre saw with a metal cutting blade. Straighten and clean the edges on the stationery disk sander. Have done dozens of aluminum parts this way.

Paul, what bandsaw blade do you use to cut aluminum. I can't find anything locally more than 10 tpi. I was thinking i'd need 24 tpi? amazon?

edwardb

10-05-2018, 05:35 PM

Paul, what bandsaw blade do you use to cut aluminum. I can't find anything locally more than 10 tpi. I was thinking i'd need 24 tpi? amazon?

Yes to both. I use 24 tooth, and get them on Amazon. I have an old Craftsman bandsaw, and used to get the blades at Sears. Then they stopped carrying them. Then they all closed. :( I've had good luck with these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010QOMVQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They last quite a while if only used on aluminum. I keep a candle handy and run it past the blade regularly. Cuts smoother and helps keeps the teeth from clogging up.

kehenline

10-07-2018, 07:01 AM

Yes to both. I use 24 tooth, and get them on Amazon. I have an old Craftsman bandsaw, and used to get the blades at Sears. Then they stopped carrying them. Then they all closed. :( I've had good luck with these. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010QOMVQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They last quite a while if only used on aluminum. I keep a candle handy and run it past the blade regularly. Cuts smoother and helps keeps the teeth from clogging up.

thanks. I hate to use my woodworking bandsaw to cut aluminum, but I guess it is one of the sacrifices of transitioning from furniture building to car building. this should be fun!

edwardb

10-12-2018, 05:16 PM

It’s been a while since I’ve posted an update. Have been doing other life stuff, but still quite a bit of time on the build. Just hasn’t been much to post about. Here’s an accumulation of things.

First an update on a previous subject. I spent some hours trying to modify the Moroso oil pan pickup tube to work with the Gen 3 Coyote oil pump. In the end only one word. Fail. I won’t go into tons of detail except to say the Moroso pickup is now in multiple pieces. As it turns out, the angle coming out of the pump doesn’t work with the curve on the Moroso pieces, and in the end I'm not satisfied with how it would mate up with the oil pump receptacle. Needless to say, not a place to have any issues. After looking a lot more closely and thinking about it some more, decided to order this Modular Motorsports GT350/2018 Coyote pickup tube. Thanks to another forum member for pointing out to me. http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_30_49&products_id=1020. I’m nearly certain it will still require a little modification because it’s intended for a deeper pan than the Moroso pan we use. But everything else about it looks like it will work. And most especially since it’s specifically made for this style oil pump. As I mentioned before, I already purchased the older style oil pan gasket/windage tray, which they picture as going with this pickup. One other small detail is the Gen 3 Coyote doesn’t have the stud and spacer on one of the bearing caps used to anchor the pickup end of the tube. So ordered those pieces. The pickup tube took a while to ship, but now it’s in transit and will be here Tuesday. I’m anxious, to say the least, to see if it’s going to work. Haven’t ordered from this company before. They have a lot of interesting products (and apparently the only game in town for this particular part) but I own it. Their return policy: “ABSOLUTELY NO RETURNS OR CANCELLATIONS ON ANY ITEMS REGARDLESS IF THE ITEM HAS SHIPPED OR NOT – DO NOT EVEN ASK – IF YOU ORDERED IT, YOU OWN IT!” Yep, in all caps. There’s another sentence or two, but that’s the gist of it. Interesting. I really hope this part works since I can't return it. But mostly I hope it works because I'm out of ideas.

Most of my time since the last update has been diving deep into the wiring. I’ve reconfigured a couple of the harnesses, and will probably end up doing the same for most of them. I’m really focused on conserving as much space as possible behind the dash because of space needed for other stuff including mostly HVAC ducting. That combined with my OCD tendencies trying to keep things neat and orderly especially with the totally exposed front, and there you go.

First up was the main Coyote harness. The one that includes the Power Distribution Box (PDB) and connections to power, ground, cooling fan, starter, behind the dash, etc. It’s the biggest and most complicated harness. I removed the supercharger leg and a couple other unneeded wires and moved the cooling fan and starter wires back to the PDB area. Then rearranged and shortened the wires that go through the firewall into the dash area. I separated the MIL from the ODB2 and will be routing the MIL to the dash where it should be. I mentioned before that Ford now only has three wires on the pigtail lead. Fuel pump, ignition sense, start sense. I’m probably going to connect those directly to the required RF wires and not even use the connector. More space savings. By taking the wires listed out of the main harness between the PCM connection and the PDB, I was able to replace the convolute with a smaller size which will make it slightly less obvious. Once everything was done, re-wrapped everything with harness tape the way Ford had it. This isn’t much of a picture, but shows what’s left that has to go behind the firewall. Those that have done Coyote’s will maybe appreciate. Greatly simplified.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95485&d=1539379891

Next up was the front harness. Again I decided to take the harness apart and change the configuration so it would route better. Plus I added a wire for the fog lights. One thing I noticed on this newer version of the RF harness is they have really upgraded the ground wires. That was always a weak point in the previous versions, and many of us added grounds at the four corners. I’ll probably still add a ground at the front and back, just because everything still ends up going through that one ground wire in the footbox area. But in general it’s much improved. Here’s how my front harness now routes. I don’t have the padded clamps installed yet, but you can get the idea. I used a smaller grommet at the footbox which uses a much smaller hole. It’s pretty easy to take the pins out of the connectors, pass just the wires through, and then re-pin. I also added harness wrap like Ford uses on their harnesses. Added protection, looks better, and easier to keep clean. Out of the footbox and along the lower part of the chassis tube. Then split the left and right and took the right hand wires behind the radiator tunnel piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95480&d=1539379815

Left hand side with wires broken out for the cooling fan and the horns.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95481&d=1539379827

Right hand side same as left.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95482&d=1539379841

This is where I’m at on the firewall. Have the PDB mounted and wires through the firewall. Also made up the short SS flex lines for the fuel lines to the regulator.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95483&d=1539379848

Finally, starting to lay out the main power wires. I don’t have my battery tray back from powder coat yet, so just getting started here. Will do a very similar power connection as the last two Roadster builds. #2 cables to a master disconnect with the handle in the cockpit, then wires from there. Lots more to work on here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95479&d=1539379806

When the engine compartment is done, will tackle this mess. Lots of dieting will be going on here too. It will be interesting (hopefully) to compare this “before” picture to the “after” one when completed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95484&d=1539379882

edwardb

10-12-2018, 05:20 PM

Another detail with the Coyote installation is the bottom clutch switch. Factory Five provides bracketry for the switch with their Coyote installation kit. But intended for their cable clutch setup. Doesn’t work exactly for a hydraulic clutch like I’m doing. After looking at several options, ended up using the supplied FF bracket for the switch itself. It snaps in nicely and is adjustable. The challenge then is to push the switch when the clutch is pushed down. Thought about modifying the other piece they provided like some have done. But instead made a piece from 3/4-inch wide by 1/8-inch thick steel that bolts between the clevis and nut on the MC, and then wraps around to push the clutch switch. Seems to work just fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95478&d=1539379797

Finally, spent a couple hours today wrapping up the clean-up and prep of the main body section. Need to get this done while it’s still a little warm out. (Frost warning tonight…) Everything is now straight, square, even, smooth, etc. I have a couple repairs that need to be made in the corners of the scoops behind the doors. Visible in the pic if you look closely. But no big deal. I’m also planning to spray some Lizard Skin ceramic insulation on the inside of the roof area. Hoping that will help control the temp inside a little. In general, I’m happy with the body so far. We’ll see how it fits. Most seem to be working out OK. I’ll be doing the same on the nose piece in the next couple days hopefully.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95487&d=1539380819

On a completely separate note, a good buddy in our local club took delivery this year on a brand new Superformance Roadster with a Gen 2 Coyote installed. It had the stock tune and he noticed some of the same issues I had with mine on the stock tune. So he asked me to work with Lund Racing like I did for a custom tune. Brought it to my house, parked it in my garage, and said to call when it was done. Cool!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95489&d=1539381843

The Superformance has no hood scoop, stripes, roll bars, or side pipes. Has undercar exhaust with cats. No surprise, it’s very quiet. Lund Racing did their usual great work and the new tune is installed with multiple log and update cycles, and the car returned to its owner. Running absolutely great. A pretty major transformation. It was interesting looking this car over and driving it. Hadn’t been up this close to a Superformance before.

Now finally, all good build projects involve new tools, right? I’ve been pretty disappointed that the Coupe build hasn’t yielded many new tools. I guess the ones from previous builds were still OK to use. But having said that, I use calipers all the time. Have several of the H-F variety digital ones and one average quality analog one. But one thing I get frustrated about was how frequently I need to change batteries. Which aren’t cheap and they go dead of course at the worst time. Plus not really sold on how accurate those cheapo ones are. So did some Amazon browsing looking for a better quality one, and found this Mitutoyo 500-474 digital caliper that’s solar-powered. Works in any reasonably lit workspace. Who knew? I have it and have used it for several days. Not cheap, but hopefully will last a long time. I like it a lot. Way more accurate than I need, but that’s OK. And no more batteries.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95490&d=1539381853

That’s it for now. Or should I say that’s more than enough? Back to wiring.

TheBabyBadger

10-12-2018, 05:34 PM

Looking good, brother! Loving the progress! Always SO CLEAN! No lie, I'm gonna rip off some of your engine bay routing, I love it!

edwardb

10-12-2018, 05:41 PM

Looking good, brother! Loving the progress! Always SO CLEAN! No lie, I'm gonna rip off some of your engine bay routing, I love it!

Thanks! Much appreciated. Your build is looking good too.

TheBabyBadger

10-13-2018, 01:30 AM

Thanks! Much appreciated. Your build is looking good too.

Thanks! I work on it and feel like I make so much progress, then I see yours and feel so far behind! Can't wait to be driving it, but keep reminding myself to take my time. It's not a race! Keep at it, looks AMAZING!

David Williamson

10-13-2018, 07:09 AM

edwardb

10-13-2018, 11:25 AM

Are you planning to relocate the front harness under the frame rails? I did and they are mostly out of sight. I added grounds for the lights at each corner, as you said never too many.
As always great pictures and writeup.
Are you planning to get "Quiet pipes" ? mine will be here soon. Took it out for a short first drive to get gas and the kids coming home from school were covering their ears as I drove by - slowly I might add.
David W

Thanks. I'm going to put the front harness on the side close to where it's hanging right now. Having it underneath is a good idea, and I considered it. But for how I routed the harness with the crossover behind the radiator tunnel, it turned the corner by the shock mount better being on the side. Besides, I have the even larger Coyote harness on the RH side chassis tube that I can't do anything about based on where I decided to put the PCM. Once the engine is in and all the other hoses and lines are installed, I think it's all going to kind of blend together. Doing my best to keep things neat and orderly. Hidden not so much.

I will not be using the standard side pipes. That much of the decision is made. I'll share what I'm planning later in the build.

cnutting

10-13-2018, 01:20 PM

Nice work as always!
I'm in that "missing the build" phase. A coupe is tempting...

edwardb

10-16-2018, 01:20 PM

Today I received the Modular Motorsports Racing 403360 oil pan pickup tube mentioned in my last update. It appears to be a very well made piece and needless to say I was anxious to see how it fit in my new Coyote. Good news and not surprising news. First the good news. Fits the GT350 style oil pump connector perfectly, the oil pan gasket/windage tray perfectly, and hits the opening in the Moroso pan just fine.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95712&d=1539712221

I wasn’t sure how they would address keeping the pump end of the tube in the oil pump since there are no mounting or retaining screws on that end. The fitting on the end of the pickup tube extends about 5/8-inch down into a rubber gasket in the oil pump. So it's pretty substantial. But still. Recall the OE oil pan has the pickup tube integral with the pan. So with the pan bolted on there’s no way for it to come out. The answer appears to be a small step on the side of the pickup tube that’s engaged by the windage tray. Slightly visible in the picture above, but better seen here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95715&d=1539712246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95713&d=1539712229

It’s different, but seems that it would be adequate. With the other end bolted down, I’m not sure it could fall out anyway. It’s negative pressure here vs. positive. So the tube is being naturally drawn in. The windage tray has a web piece directly under where it’s holding, so it’s pretty substantial. I guess I’m OK with it.

Now for the no surprise news. The pickup end is much too long. Exactly 1-9/16 inches too long by my measurements to the inside of the Moroso pan. Not including the .250” to .500” clearance recommended by Moroso. So I have two choices for rework. (1) Shorten the MMR piece by cutting off and re-welding to the shorter length. But this also means I would have to modify the retaining bracket to the bearing cap. Plus taking that much off the length would get into where the pipe bends. (2) Use the good end from each pickup tube I've purchased so far – the oil pump end from the MMR pickup, and the oil pan end from the Moroso pickup. This looks really promising. I already have the Moroso piece cut into pieces, so no loss there. Checking as carefully as I can at this point, the angles, location, and height all look like they would work. This is the idea.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95714&d=1539712237

I’m still waiting for the cap bolt stud and spacer from Tasca Parts. So won’t make a final decision until they’re received and I can check everything out a little more precisely. But this looks promising. If anyone has any better ideas, let me know! (That doesn't include changing the oil pump as Ford suggested.) In the meantime, hopefully for those in the future with the Gen 3 Coyote (and aren't so impatient) there will be a plug and play pickup tube available and won’t have to go through this.

Last for today, I picked up the pieces from powder coat that I fabbed previously. Mounting for the PCM, expansion tank, and battery. More of the puzzle pieces needed to finalize wiring and get the chassis ready for the engine installation.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95716&d=1539712254

This coming weekend we’re off for family visits in Idaho and Oregon. So about a 3-week break on the build. Sadly, driving season could very well be over by the time we get back. More time to build I guess.

edwardb

10-19-2018, 07:35 AM

This will be my last update for a few weeks as we’re off for family visits out west. Couple small bits of progress to report. Yet another bit of a setback on the Gen 3 Coyote oil pickup tube saga. I mentioned before that since the Gen 3 Coyote has the integrated pickup in the oil pan, it doesn’t have the stud on one of the main bearing cap bolts that’s used to anchor the pickup end of the tube. It’s cap bearing bolt #15 in Ford manuals BTW. Seems simple enough. Order the cap bolt with stud from a previous Coyote version and swap out the plain bolt installed in the Gen 3. There’s a threaded spacer that goes on the stud, and a bolt to hold the pickup. Like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95800&d=1539950350

After looking at multiple exploded drawings and parts listing, couldn’t exactly the determine the part number for the cap bolt with stud. It was one of two. I had an order to Tasca Parts for my radiator hoses and miscellaneous so added both part numbers to the order. The order was delayed for one piece that was on back order. Called them and found one of my two bolts with the stud was backordered, not in stock anywhere, and no ETA from Ford. So took a chance and had them delete the part and ship the order hoping the one they did have was the one I needed. Received the parts yesterday, and you guessed it, the part I received is the wrong one. The inner bolts (the one needed with the stud) are a larger diameter than the outer bolts on the caps. The one I received (pictured above) is the smaller diameter used for the outer bolt. Can’t use it there because the oil pickup tube doesn't align there plus that’s not where the hole is in the windage tray. So I visited my local Ford dealer and spoke with the parts manager. He agreed the part I didn’t receive was the one I needed. Of course they didn’t have one either. Looked through all their distribution channels and told me the same thing. None in stock anywhere and no ETA. Good grief! I’m going to let this simmer for the next few weeks. Right now I’m thinking it would be pretty straightforward to have the threaded spacer welded to the top of the existing plain bolt out of the engine. Done properly, that should be fine. Any other ideas? This is another issue that anyone using a Gen 3 Coyote will have to figure out. Hopefully the right parts will be available at some point.

On a more successful note, since I’m working on wiring and routing of everything, decided I wanted to get the DBW pedal assembly mounted so that wire could be routed as needed. I mentioned before that the Gen 3 Coupe has a nice mounting plate with holes already drilled for the Coyote DBW assembly. But unfortunately, too high and aligns the plug receptacle directly underneath the steering column. That just isn’t going to work. On the Roadster, the DBW assembly ends up further to the right and clears the column pretty easily. But the Coupe steering column is apparently in a different location, plus the footbox sidewall is much closer up there (more room for the engine, that’s good) so the DBW has to be either really low or moved to the left. Not wanting the pedal too low or the pedal arm cut too short, I chose to orient it so the plug was accessible on the LH side of the steering column. I used the DBW mounting plate included with the Coyote installation kit and modified it to sandwich on top of the installed mounting plate and orient the pedal where it needed to be. I put some 1/4-inch nutserts in the mounting plate so I didn’t have to fish washers and nuts behind there to take the DBW in and out. (Love working down deep in footboxes…) Also made a little bracket assembly, which I won’t try to explain, to anchor the other side of the DBW module to make it a little more solid. On the Roadster, the RH side of the module ends up tight against a frame rail. Not so on the Coupe. I used some ideas posted by another forum member (thanks shark92651!) for the pedal modification and used the stock pedal rather than grafting the pedal from the FF assembly like in the instructions and what I did on #8674. Happy with how it turned out. These pics show the final pedal arrangement. Not exactly the best angle on the pic. The pedal is almost exactly centered between the brake pedal and the side wall. Looks closer to the brake pedal in this pic than it really is. Also a better view of where the harness plug ended up.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95798&d=1539950332

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95799&d=1539950343

That’s it for now. When we get back, first priority will be to get the engine bay wiring done (I’m about 50% complete), hopefully the issues with the oil pan pickup resolved, and finally get the engine assembly completed and installed into the chassis.

shark92651

10-19-2018, 01:13 PM

It's looking good, Paul. I'm happy to see that one of my ideas was useful to you - I have certainly used many, many of yours!

David Williamson

10-19-2018, 02:02 PM

I would not weld on the stud, it will affect the ductility and it might break. Can you get a section of hex bar stock drilled and tapped with the 2 sizes?
David W

edwardb

10-19-2018, 02:32 PM

I would not weld on the stud, it will affect the ductility and it might break. Can you get a section of hex bar stock drilled and tapped with the 2 sizes?

David W

Guess I wasn't clear. The idea isn't to weld on the stud, but rather the spacer directly onto the existing bolt. Which I have and show in the picture (along with the wrong sized bearing cap bolt w/stud I received). So rather than being threaded onto the bearing cap bolt the spacer is permanently attached. Then mount the oil pan pickup tube on the other end per normal.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95800&d=1539950350

TheBabyBadger

10-19-2018, 05:31 PM

edwardb

10-19-2018, 06:13 PM

Nice Paul! Just started working on that same issue in my Coupe, and went about it about the same exact way!

Quick Question. In the below picture, did you ADD the closeout over the "X" above the trans tunnel (left of your FPR and below fuse box). I thought it got shorted in my kit, but no one else seems to have it either. Did you make this piece or am I actually missing it? Thanks!

The kit doesn't include that part. I fabbed it out of a piece of .040 aluminum. I saw something similar in another build while I was gathering ideas for my build, so used the idea in mine. I like how it makes the engine bay a little more finished looking.

Dlirium

11-14-2018, 11:35 AM

SNIP

With that done, flipped the engine over and started working on the Moroso oil pan installation and pickup modification. First thing was to check the fit of the oil pan gasket/windage tray and the Moroso pan. The OE pan for the Gen 3 Coyote is the plastic (composite…) pan I pictured previously with the integral oil pickup and gasket/windage tray. I picked up a Gen 2 gasket/windage tray (part number BR3Z-6710-A) and confirmed it fit fine along with the Moroso pan. All the sealing surfaces are exactly the same and the bolt holes all line up perfectly. Started preliminary work on the pickup mod. First was to confirm the 8491A761 bushing, 1" ID, 1-1/4" OD, 1-1/2" long, that I got from McMaster fit the oil pump inlet. It does. Perfectly. Nice slip fit into the rubber gasket. The ID fits the OD of the Moroso oil pickup tube. So we’re off and running. Tomorrow I plan to get this completely figured out and fixtured for welding. This is the new gasket and you can see the bushing pushed into the oil pump in the lower LH corner of the pic.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=94185&d=1537923092

FYI, a fabricator friend of mine has done the same thing with the MMR / Moroso pickup, here are a few pictures (since I couldn't figure out how to email them) for reference...

9746097461

edwardb

11-14-2018, 02:20 PM

FYI, a fabricator friend of mine has done the same thing with the MMR / Moroso pickup, here are a few pictures (since I couldn't figure out how to email them) for reference...

9746097461

Interesting approach. Basically duplicated the integral pickup tube in the stock pan. Thanks for posting. We were gone for three weeks, then took a few days to get settled once back. I've been able to get back on the build the last couple days, mainly trying to wrap up power wiring. Plan to get back on my oil pan pickup mod this week as well. I'll post an update when there's something more to see.

edwardb

11-17-2018, 02:11 PM

It’s been a while, but I’m finally back. We were in Oregon and Idaho visiting family for three weeks. Great seeing everyone and had an awesome time. But good to be back home, like always. We ran into snow in Minneapolis on the flights home, and it caught up with Michigan the next day. The ground has been white since. I guess that means driving season is officially over. Always a little sad. But back to the build after catching up with home duties for several days.

Main focus of the last several days has been to finish the main power wiring. Obviously it needs to get done, but also to wrap up the engine compartment so the Coyote can go in for good. I used the same main power scheme as on #8674 and similar to #7750, just without the Coyote. I used the Breeze front battery mounts in the Roadsters. For the Coupe, the front mount location is standard. I get a lot of questions about this, so here is the scheme I use:

+12V main power #2 gauge cable from battery positive to post on Ron Francis MS-1 master disconnect accessible from inside the cockpit.
On the same post (+12V, unswitched), #4 gauge cable to the Coyote 250 amp fuse (provided in controls pack) and then to the front post on the Coyote PDB.
On the other side of the master disconnect (+12V, switched), #4 gauge cable back to the large post on the starter solenoid.
Also on the switched side is a cable to a Blue Sea Systems #2307 150A bus bar in the cockpit. The Ron Francis harness power connections will be made there.
Main ground #2 gauge cable from battery negative to spot on the frame. Powder coat removed under the lug and attached with 3/8-16 flange head screw into tapped hole.
Also stacked at this frame ground location are the (1) main ground from the Coyote PDB, and (2) #4 gauge ground wire to engine. I’ll add a second engine ground from one of the starter bolts to another location on the frame, probably near the motor mount. I’ve always done two engine grounds, and will on this build as well.

This wiring approach gives full time power to the Coyote PDB, as outlined in the Ford Performance instructions, and switches the Ron Francis harness. With the switch off, the Coyote won't start since there would be no ignition sense voltage to the Coyote pigtail and also no battery voltage to the starter. Additionally (although I haven't tried it) the Coyote should stop if the switch were turned off since again the ignition sense voltage would be cut off. I know many install a master disconnect. But also many don't. I can see it either way. But this arrangement works for me to have a switch plus a gathering point for the various main power connections.

I used #2 cable from West Marine. It’s sold by the foot. Not cheap, but high quality marine grade. The conductors are small diameter, so it’s pretty flexible similar to welding cable. The kit comes with #4 battery cable, which is probably adequate. But many have upgraded to #2 (or larger...) and it's not a bad idea. I've never had a starting issue, hot or cold. I used Fusion battery terminals, which have pre-measured solder and flux and I like how they work. The rest of the #2 and #4 lugs are heavy duty crimp style. The terminals, HD lugs, and shrink sleeving are all from DelCity.net. The smaller gauge terminals are from West Marine. They have a nice selection. I used regular convolute and then spiral wrapped with non-adhesive vinyl harness tape. Same treatment Ford uses on the Coyote harness. Looks a little better than the plain convolute, is easier to keep clean, and perhaps provides a little more protection.

I mentioned this is my last build, but will here again. Several years ago another forum member recommended a hydraulic crimper for this heavy duty cable work. Part number YQK70. It’s a common tool available from a number of sources. I got mine off eBay, but they're available elsewhere. Typically less than $40, which seems a little crazy. I wouldn’t call it Snap-On quality. But does the job very well. I found their recommendations for die sizes and specific AWG cable to be off. But then maybe that was because I was using mostly heavy duty lugs. But a little experimentation finds the right size to use. Comes with plenty of dies and they’re easy to change. Looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97589&d=1542472774

Pictures of the installation. Battery connections to power harness through engine compartment.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97587&d=1542472755

Down the frame rail. I measured the starter connection locations and lengths during the mockup, duplicated here. The smaller wire is the blue start wire from the Coyote controls pack. I took enough measurements and pictures during mockup to know everything here easily clears.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97586&d=1542472749

Firewall with Coyote PDB and related. Main power wires go to master disconnect behind this center panel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97585&d=1542472737

Master disconnect behind the center panel viewed from inside cockpit with top transmission tunnel piece removed. Note I will have both this upper and lower tunnel piece removable. Also visible here is the connection to the bus bar for power connection to the RF harness.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97584&d=1542472720

Another view of the master disconnect inside the cockpit on the passenger side. Looked at a lot of potential locations for the switch and ended up here. Just too much congestion on the driver’s side, plus the cables routed the best here. It will end up just slightly tucked under the dash.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97588&d=1542472764

That’s it for wiring in the engine compartment. I’m going to get the hydraulic line for the clutch installed, and then then everything will be ready to drop the engine in.

edwardb

11-17-2018, 02:12 PM

Also this week I worked on the famous oil pan pickup tube for the Gen 3 Coyote. First up was to get the proper main bearing cap bolt with stud, not installed on the Gen 3 as discussed previously. Was able to get what I needed. The part numbers are: BR3Z-6345-A stud, N806180-S2 spacer, and N605904-S bolt. These are the parts next to the main bearing cap bolt they replace:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97590&d=1542472814

Then very carefully torqued the new bolt into position. Per Ford specs, 50 ft-lbs, then 90 degrees. Used my shiny new digital angle gauge, pictured previously. But would have been pretty simple without in this case. Used some blue Loctite on the spacer. Now it looks like a Gen 2 Coyote in that location. :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97591&d=1542472821

So finally it was time to try to marry the Moroso pickup with the Modular Motorsports oil pump connector. Discussed at length earlier, so won’t go into detail again. Had plenty of time to think about this while I was gone. Last night I fabricated a connector from a piece of 4130 steel round tube, McMaster part number 89955K969. Then I tapped four 1/4-20 locations on each end for set screws. After a lot of studying, measuring, (and soul searching…) took the hacksaw to the Moroso and Modular Motorsports parts and joined them with the connector. Success! It lines up perfectly and seats properly into the oil pump. Clears the pan and windage tray just fine. Checked the pickup depth in the pan with some plumber’s putty, and all good. I have the set screws pretty tight, so nothing should move when I take it to my buddy for welding. Once welded, will take out the set screws and have him weld those shut too. I think this little saga is about over. I hope so. Once this is done, the engine will come off the stand and I’ll get the whole thing assembled. Flywheel, clutch, bell, HRB and trans. Then into the chassis.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97592&d=1542472828

One last item to share. On a beautiful fall day in early October (already seems like a long time ago) took #8674 out for some pictures, including on the street in our neighborhood just down from our place. Got some nice shots, so submitted one of them for the Picture of the Month (POM). Was pleased and surprised to win the October POM contest. Cool! And the $250 Factory Five gift certificate wasn’t bad either. Wasn’t planning to, but took the opportunity to splurge on the billet door handles they offer, replacing the nearly identical plastic ones provided in the kit. Also updated some of my Factory Five swag. Sweatshirt, hat, etc. These are going to look nice in the Coupe. The handles that is.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97593&d=1542472868

Mark Eaton

11-18-2018, 09:05 AM

The rest of the #2 and #4 lugs are heavy duty crimp style.

Paul, after you crimp on those heavy duty lugs do you also solder or just heat shrink tubing and call it good?

Thanks,

Mark

edwardb

11-18-2018, 01:53 PM

The rest of the #2 and #4 lugs are heavy duty crimp style.

Paul, after you crimp on those heavy duty lugs do you also solder or just heat shrink tubing and call it good?

Thanks,

Mark

Just crimped. The hydraulic crimper I showed puts a full 360 degree crimp around the conductors. Not just a single dent or flat spot. I've done some practice crimps and then did pull tests and also cut several apart. The section is basically solid copper. Very solid. The heat shrink I use for those lugs is triple wall that includes an adhesive. Mainly meant to seal things up, but adds some strength as well. They're not going anywhere.

edwardb

11-22-2018, 09:16 AM

Very productive last couple of days getting the Gen 3 Coyote assembled and ready to put into the chassis. Just a couple more details to wrap up on both. Then with a little help hope to get installed. A few little challenges along the way, but I think it’s good to go.

First up was the oil pan pickup tube. That chapter is now officially closed. Had the grafted together pickup tube welded. Still lined up perfectly. I cleaned up the rubber gasket and all mating surfaces and installed using some Permatex Ultra Black at the oil pump inlet. Probably not necessary but made me feel better. That plus how the windage tray engages one side, as shown previously, I’m confident it's sealed and won’t come out. Picture of the now completed pickup tube installed, and the other picture I’ve been waiting for. The Moroso pan bolted down for the final time.

Update: A proper Gen 3 pickup is now available from Moroso. No longer necessary to make a custom pickup as shown here.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97939&d=1542890415

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97940&d=1542890425

Next up I decided to tackle the Speedhut water temp and oil pressure sending units. Couple of bumps, but now complete. First the easy one. The water temp sender goes into a 3/4-inch NPT fitting in the block by the oil filter. Same as before. The FF Coyote installation kit includes an adapter. The instructions say to thread the 1/2-inch NPT adapter that comes with the gauges into this adapter. Unfortunately, the adapter included with the gauges is 3/8-inch NPT. Had this exact issue with #8674. So ordered up the same Edelmann 210926 3/4-inch NPT to 3/8-inch NPT adapter used on #8674, and installed the sender. For the oil pressure sender, the Gen 3 Coyote has some differences from previous Coyotes. I pointed this out earlier. There are two wired devices by the oil filter, not just the single oil pressure sender. Similar as it turns out to what’s on the F-150 version of the Coyote. Seen here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97941&d=1542890434

Through my contact at Ford, I was able to find out that “A” is a traditional oil pressure sender. “B” is an oil control valve that decreases oil pressure at low rpm to promote fuel economy. Interesting because some of the reviews I’ve read about the Gen 3 Coyote people who’ve had previous Coyotes have commented that the oil pressure reads lower than before. Clearly Ford is looking for every possible way to increase economy. But the rest of the story is my Ford contact confirmed that neither are used by the crate motor control pack PCM program. Also upon further review I found the inlet on the oil pressure sender is a metric O-ring fitting and I was unable to find any kind of adapter to fit it. So took the bull by the horns and removed the oil filter/sender assembly from the engine (4 bolts and has an O-ring gasket, so easy) and tapped the hole to 1/4-inch NPT. No way I was going to drill and tap the hole with the piece still on the engine. Would have been nearly impossible to keep chips and such out of there. With the hole tapped, used the gauge package provided 1/4-inch NPT adapter, installed the Speedhut oil pressure sender, and it’s done. I’m leaving the oil control valve in place, even though it doesn’t do anything. Doesn’t hurt a thing and saves finding something to plug the hole. Tied the other unused lead out of the way.

Update March 2020: Information above is not correct. The OE oil pressure sender is required for the Gen 3 Coyote. Discussed later in the build thread.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97946&d=1542890481

With that done, time to wrap up the final driveline pieces to the engine. I had previously installed the M-7600-C pilot bearing. Set the QuickTime block plate in place, and bolted on the M-6375-M50 billet steel flywheel using a M-6379-C bolt kit. The bolts are torqued to 177 in-lbs then turned another 60 degrees in a star pattern. Sounds light, but at 60 degrees very tight. Note the addition of the pilot bearing and flywheel are necessary because the Gen 3 Coyote has the unusable (for me anyway) dual mass flywheel and no pilot bearing in the end of the crank, as discussed several times already. Previous Coyotes had a nodular flywheel, which seems to work fine. This billet steel version is 9 pounds lighter and is SFI certified. Used the same one on #8674. Nice piece.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97942&d=1542890443

No pictures, but next up I installed the Quicktime RM-8080 bell housing and dial indicated the opening. Because of the way the two indexing dowels on a Coyote bell housing have mounting bolts through the center, the traditional methods of adjusting with offset dowels is challenging. But still good practice to take this step and confirm where you’re at. Tremec apparently specifically says their warranty doesn’t apply unless the bell housing is indexed and in spec. Interesting. Anyway, initial measurements weren’t great. Borderline to spec and certainly not my experience with previous QuickTime bell housings. Took it back apart trying to talk myself into it being close enough. Upon disassembly, I noticed how a foil/plastic heat shield around the crank sensor was being trapped between the block plate/bell and the block. There are several of these on the Gen 3 Coyote, including the two oil sensor pieces discussed previously. Also different than before. Looking further at the available clearance and the thickness of the shield, looked like this could be a problem. Removed the heat shield, bolted everything back together, and dial indicated the opening again. Surprise! Within .002 to .003 all around. Well within spec and similar to what I’ve seen before. This picture shows the shield removed next to where it was. Obviously, there’s a reason Ford added those. But haven’t used them before so leaving them off.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97943&d=1542890454

edwardb

11-22-2018, 09:20 AM

Next up was the clutch. Using the same M-7560-T46 clutch as #8674. It’s actually a dual friction Centerforce part, sold by Ford Performance. It chattered a bit in the first couple hundred miles in #8674 (not unusual) but once broken in I’ve been real happy with it. Nice quality piece. Installed with a M-6397-B46 bolt and dowel kit. The bolts are torqued to 46 ft-lbs then turned another 60 degrees in a star pattern. Sounds a little heavy, compared to the flywheel, but they turned the full 60 degrees without feeling like I was forcing anything. Here’s the clutch installed, also showing a stop piece I made instead of trying to hold the front crankshaft bolt like I’ve done before. Also used it when torqueing the flywheel using one of the pressure plate bolt holes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97944&d=1542890465

Then on with the bell housing. Used some blue Loctite and torqued to 50 ft/lbs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97945&d=1542890472

As mentioned before, using a Tilton 60-6104 Hydraulic Release Bearing (HRB) instead of the traditional clutch arm and Ford throw-out bearing. First time for me on this, so we’ll see how it works and holds up. The installation is pretty simple. Just followed the directions. The inside sleeve is threaded and you set to end up 1/8-inch away from the clutch pressure plate fingers when fully retracted. In use, it will move out against the fingers and according to the instructions is self-adjusting. Similar to a disk brake caliper. The HRB includes an anti-rotation pin that goes into a threaded hole already in the T-56. I also removed the installed clutch arm pivot. But I'll save it. I’m using the HRB along with a Wilwood 260-10373 13/16 inch MC in the pedal box. That’s the size recommended by Tilton for this installation. The instructions are also very insistent that it have a pedal stop. So I’ll deal with that when it’s installed, bled, and checked out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97947&d=1542890488

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97948&d=1542890496

Then on the with T-56, which once lined up slid right into place. Can’t tell too much yet, but with the trans in gear the output yoke turns without any unusual drag or noises. I guess that’s good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97950&d=1542890511

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97949&d=1542890503

That's a chunk right there. My body feels it from dragging everything around for a day or two. Next step, into the chassis. But first some turkey and football, and some time spent being thankful which I truly am. For so many things. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

GT Trooper

11-22-2018, 11:13 AM

Nice work sir and Happy Thanksgiving to you.

edwardb

11-24-2018, 09:24 PM

Big day today. With some help from a neighbor and fellow builder (Challenge Car) the Gen 3 Coyote + T-56 and related are installed into the Coupe chassis. In general, went pretty well. Took just over an hour and that was with a couple surprises. First some pictures of the installation, and then some observations and suggestions.

Used my H-F 2-ton shop crane, H-F leveler, and TD Motion Coyote lift brackets. I tried several different chain configurations, and wasn’t able to get the engine assembly to tilt down in the back as much as I would have liked and still be level side-to-side. Nothing wrong with anything, just a function of where the lift brackets attach to the engine. I used the same method as I have on previous installations though, and worked OK. I put a lift strap on the back of the trans, down under the chassis, and attached to the shop crane. Cranking this in pulls the tailshaft down and really helps make things easier to install. The other thing I did was rather than trying to move the engine stand around during the installation (not easy to move, causes the engine to start swinging) I put vehicle dollies on the four corners and move the chassis instead. Moves and controls easily. I know some guys lift the back wheels up, and that works too. But this process works for me. So, ready for the installation. Just standing there looking at it, doesn't seem like there's any way it will fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98085&d=1543108112

I added some furniture blankets all around the opening before moving the engine in. Little over an hour later, looked like this. I’ve posted similar pics during mockup. But this one’s different. This is the complete engine and trans and it’s not coming out again. :rolleyes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98087&d=1543108130

One of the things discovered during mockup was that the QuickTime bell housing extended 1-1/2 inches or so below the bottom of the frame. When it was back out after mockup, trimmed the overhang and painted the cut off edge. Affected a couple of the bolts around the circle. But didn’t open it up or expose anything. Still have more beef and bolts than the non-SFI QuickTime in #8674. For my purposes, it’s more than robust enough.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98086&d=1543108120

Now for some observations and suggestions. First for the installation itself.

- Leave the alternator off during the installation. I had unhooked the steering column and had it (I thought) out of the way, like can be done on then Roadster. It wasn’t. We had to lift the engine back up a little and completely remove the steering column. Because of the frame configuration, one or the other can’t be installed when the engine is dropped in. When completed, the steering shaft is over the alternator. Related to this, the driver's side header can’t be installed with the alternator in place. Again because of frame members all around the area. So, leave the alternator off when dropping in the engine. Then install the header. Then the alternator.

- Remove the shifter from the transmission. Way easier to install without that in the way. Because it’s bigger, even more the case with the T-56 compared to the TKO.

- Much was written earlier in this build thread about clearance for the Direct Injection (DI) pump on the passenger side head of the Gen 3 Coyote. In summary, it fits fine once the engine is in. But it’s definitely in the way when dropping the engine down. I removed it. Not hard. Two nuts, an electrical connection, and two hoses. Also remove the outer mounting stud. It too interferes, as we found during mid-installation. Looks like this after the dust clears. I'm a little surprised to see how scratched up the powder coat looks in this picture. This area will be covered with an access panel, and looks worse in the picture than it does in person. Doesn't look nice though.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98088&d=1543108140

- Related to this we also had a little trouble with the curve on the TD motion lift bracket hitting the chassis side rail on the driver’s side. Somewhat because of the DI pump situation on the passenger side. But even without that, the head was tight on the passenger side and the lift bracket hit the driver's side about 1/4-inch strong. I loosened it up, and was able to get it to drop though (with some furniture blanket padding). The bracket should either have less curve out (not easy) or maybe using fewer spacers behind it on the mounts would be enough. Something to look at.

Couple other general observations:

- Best I can tell, it wouldn’t be that hard to drop the transmission out the bottom of the tunnel if needed. The tunnel is much wider and is basically open from the bell housing to the tailshaft. The bell housing bolts are all accessible. The Gen 3 Coupe uses a mounting plate for the transmission rather than an A-frame mount like the Roadster. Plus the tailshaft isn't over top of a major chassis member like the Roadster. Hopefully won’t have to try, but nice to know since taking that Coyote in and out isn’t the most fun job.

- All 16 header bolts are reasonably accessible. Nothing like the Roadster. Especially the back few on the driver’s side which are nearly impossible on the Roadster. Was happy to see that.

- Already mentioned the driver’s side header won’t go in with the alternator installed. Sort of related, the starter motor won’t go in with the passenger side header installed. So kind of the opposite. There isn't room to put it in from the bottom. And the top access is blocked by the header and footbox. In both cases, related to the chassis design and the various frame members passing through the area.

That’s it for now. Next up, after a few more details, will be to plumb and check out the Tilton HRB. I’m confident it will be fine. But just want to confirm it’s working OK before going too far on anything else. Just in case.

Next week will be the one year anniversary of the kit landing in my garage shop. Slow compared to some builders. But feel like I’ve made good progress for my building pace plus trying and doing some different things. With the engine installed, next major milestone will be to complete the cockpit wiring and then first start.

Jimtmich

11-26-2018, 12:52 PM

Congratulations and thanks for the update.

edwardb

11-28-2018, 09:08 PM

With the engine/trans installed in the chassis, working through all the details. It’s been good to bolt stuff in for the last time. At least I hope so. Shifter put back on the transmission. Driveshaft and driveshaft loop installed. Filled the engine oil with the oil drained out of the engine when received. Filled to the line on the dipstick, which surprised me. But found the oil capacity on the 2018 Mustang GT is 10 quarts versus the previous 8 quarts. So, makes sense. Filled the T-56 with 4 quarts of DEXRON-III per the Tremec instructions. Different than previous T-5 and TKO experience. Tremec recently released their own transmission fluid -- TREMEC HP-MTF High Performance Transmission Fluid – that is supposed to be good stuff and usable for all their transmission. But at $20+ per quart, stuck with the gallon jug of Valvoline DEXRON-III. $14 at Wallyworld. Works for me. Also installed two 4-gauge engine grounds. One from the battery chassis ground location to the block under one of the motor mount bolts. Another from under one of the starter bolts to the chassis. With those in place, and oil in the engine, put +12V on the starter solenoid and very briefly bumped the starter a couple times. Good news, it works. Turns the engine over. No grinding or clashing sounds.

The one thing I was anxious about was getting the Tilton HRB plumbed, bled and working. It’s done and I’m happy to report seems to be working exactly as it’s supposed to. Tilton makes multiple references in their instructions about not pushing the HRB beyond its rated throw (.70 inch) and to install a clutch pedal stop to make sure. I checked very carefully and found that with the clutch pedal hard against the back wall of the footbox, with my setup I'm 1/8 to 3/16-inch less than that. So, no point in adding an additional stop. With the pedal full down, the clutch is completely disengaged. I can easily spin the transmission output yoke with the trans in gear. I can feel it engaging and dragging as the pedal is slowly released and then full grab. Short of driving, I’m confident it’s working correctly. Hard to say about the effort. I went back and forth between #8674 with the Forte hydraulic slave setup and the exact clutch and then the new Tilton setup in the Coupe. I would say the Tilton setup is “maybe” a bit lighter. But it’s not night and day. Both work really well, so no complaints. I’m happy with how easy it was to set up and it’s quite a bit cheaper. Time will tell how it works in the real world and holds up.

This picture shows the now completed driver’s side foobox, including all the RF and Coyote wiring. Even though it's a lot in a small space, I think it turned out pretty well. For the HRB plumbing, I used a 24-inch PTFE-lined stainless hose with a 90-degree end out of the Wilwood 260-10373 13/16 inch MC. You can see the hose going across the top of the footbox, out the same hole as the rear brake line and rear harness, and then attaches to the hose out of the bell housing from the HRB. I tie-wrapped the bleed hose to the supply hose. To bleed, I’ll clip the tie-wraps and bleed from underneath. Very straightforward.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98347&d=1543447329

So today I played around with the Gen 3 engine cover and I think have decided how this is going to go. Most don’t care for the new cover. Outside of the Mustang, where it’s designed to fit into the available space, it does look a little “different.” The bigger issue is that with the added complexity of the Direct Injection (DI) in the Gen 3, Ford has clearly given up with the previously used coil covers. Now the only covering for the top of the heads is this wide, flat cover.

To recap, here’s the uncovered engine as it sits today:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98346&d=1543447300

Here with the stock unmodified cover added. Note this is for reference only. I’ve already determined it won’t fit under the Coupe cowl. The ends of the “wings” interfere.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98343&d=1543447275

My first idea was to cut down the mounts on the cover and bend down the wings to improve the appearance and also allow it to fit. I cut about 3/4-inch off the mounting bosses under the cover and pulled it down with some Gorilla tape just to see what it looked like. Looks a little better maybe, but the difference is pretty subtle. There are multiple places that it interferes underneath preventing it from being bent down any further. I didn’t bother to see if it cleared the cowl.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98341&d=1543447260

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98342&d=1543447267

Not being happy with that minor mod, bit the bullet and cut the wings off. This is what I’ve had in my mind since the beginning. I just ran it through the band saw and still need to clean up and round it a bit. Would look a little more finished. But this is how it looks cut down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98344&d=1543447282

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98345&d=1543447290

Need to get used to this new look, but I think I like it. I definitely like it better than any of the other options. Assuming I go this way, will do some type of custom paint on the cover like on #8674, again matching the body color. Interested in feedback from others. But be kind. BTW, just for grins set the Gen 2 cover on the engine from #8674. It would have to be heavily modified to fit. Even then might not make it. But if it did, then it would look just like a .... Gen 2. Not going there. Too much work getting this Gen 3 on hand and installed. It's going to keep it's own identity.

cgundermann

11-28-2018, 10:31 PM

It looks much better Paul (especially when cleaned up and custom painted). The valve covers/coil-on-plugs look busy and bland. Maybe custom matching covers fabed up or something to bling them...

Just my 2 cents...

Chris

CVOBill

11-29-2018, 07:39 AM

Paul, I've been wondering what you can do to make it look better since we spoke at the Detroit Autorama earlier this year. I have to agree with you, the way you cut it and add body color will let it keep it's own identity and look much better than not running a cover or trying to bend it.

JoeAIII

11-29-2018, 12:30 PM

Jimtmich

11-29-2018, 12:44 PM

wareaglescott

11-29-2018, 01:23 PM

In my opinion the modified cover covers the only part of the gen 3 that doesn't need dressing up... The plumbing, wiring, and coils on the heads looks atrocious while the intake manifold is simple and "not unattractive"

I would definitely encourage you to make up something to dress them up if possible, no matter what you do with the stock cover.

That being said, the body may help hide them somewhat as well...

While Joe has a point there is a lot to be said for your painted cover drawing the eye to it and away from the unattractive parts he mentions. Kind of like hiding the ugly in plain sight.
With 3D printing technology it sure would be cool if someone had the know how to make something up for the sides that could then be painted to match your top piece like we did on the Gen 2 motor. If someone could come up with it I think it would be quite easy to market and sell and recoup any costs.

You are an innovator with this stuff Paul. I am laying down the challenge! haha

edwardb

11-29-2018, 01:58 PM

No surprise. Lots of opinions, and I appreciate all the feedback. The engine cover (or should I say what's left of it) isn't permanent. It snaps on and off and could just as easily be left off if it doesn't look good. If you all think this underhood looks busy now, still missing: Radiator hoses, heater hoses and control valve, A-C hoses and receiver/dryer/trinary switch assembly, PCV hoses, power steering hoses and cooler (those mostly somewhat hidden), wires from the dash (senders, alternator, etc.), and the rest of the Coyote control pack harness. It's a busy place under there with the Coyote and then all the added options. No way any of that or even most of it will be covered up. Some comes over the top of the engine, so the cover does help. But unlike the Roadster, and others, with the tip-up cowl on the Coupe, what's remaining is open to view when tipped up. My build goal is to keep it all as neat, clean and orderly as possible. It might be possible cover up those busy cylinder heads. But we'll see how prominent they really are with everything installed.

Straversi

11-29-2018, 02:36 PM

Dave Smith said the Gen II 33 Hot Rod (Blue with red wheels) had a Gen 3 Coyote in it. Only one photo of the engine in the gallery. Sorry, don't know how to cut and paste from the website. Hard to tell since they replaced the stock manifold with the Holly Sniper Hi-Rise but you can see how they fabricated some sheet metal panels to camouflage (not cover) the hoses and coil packs. Dave said he was not entirely satisfied with the results. I imagine people will try variations of this type of cover.

Or, just leave it alone and wow people with the performance. Your Coupe will be a show stopper, no matter what.
-Steve

Jim1855

11-29-2018, 03:21 PM

Maybe a Nomex blanket that just snaps to the engine compartment corners and covers everything. Could screen print it to look like a 289 & Webbers.

I don't have a real appreciation for the new EFI motors. But then I'm old and ornery.

Paul, the car and build look great, the motor not so much.

Jim

P100DHG

11-29-2018, 04:43 PM

Paul,

The whole world is watching one man solve what an entire corporation with hundreds of engineers couldn’t. Good luck and don’t let us down. LOL!!!!

It comical how Ford let that engine roll off the line and expect customers to solve this problem.

I like the 3D printer idea, I was thinking bead rolled or punched sheet metal painted to match body would be nice and do away with top cover and paint the intake aswell. Thanks for letting us give our input spending your money and time. ;)

-Danny

Jeff Kleiner

11-29-2018, 05:40 PM

Dave Smith said the Gen II 33 Hot Rod (Blue with red wheels) had a Gen 3 Coyote in it...Dave said he was not entirely satisfied with the results....

Yeah, I drove it. There are issues...:(

Jeff

P100DHG

11-30-2018, 12:25 PM

98390

Not to hijack this thread by any means but just for relevance to the previous posts. I like the sheet metal work. Looks like they painted the heads blue also.

q4stix

11-30-2018, 02:28 PM

That picture looks like a really good solution. It still looks mechanical with the exposed metal but covers up most of the extra wires and tubes of the Gen 3

edwardb

11-30-2018, 03:21 PM

Thanks everyone for your feedback and comments. Well, except Jim's snide remark about the Nomex cover with a picture of a 289. :eek: After I gave you that nice ride at London you don't appreciate how the modern EFI engines run? Thought I won you over, but obviously I didn't... Just pulling your chain. :o

Appreciate the link and picture of what FF did with the Hot Rod. Don't know that I would do exactly the same thing (I'm not changing the intake for example) but definitely shows what could be done with some fabrication over the heads. Bottom line for me today is I don't have to decide now, and in fact am going to wait until everything else is in like I already mentioned. Plus having have the body mounted so I can be really sure about what clearance I have. Speaking of that, this morning I got to worrying whether even the modified cover would fit. So set the cowl on the chassis and blocked it up as close as I could to where I expect it to sit. Actually kind of nice to see it that way. Gives a hint at what's ahead.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98395&d=1543608344

Then measured and took pics of the clearance. Did something similar when I had the engine mocked up. But not with the whole engine/trans package. Found there's no issue with the CAI clearing, which I was worried about before. The corners of the engine cover are 1/2-inch from the cowl on each side. Tight, but workable should I go that way. Gives me a reference to think about other possibilities.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98394&d=1543608314

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98393&d=1543608303

Also spent a little time last night starting to install the PCM in the mounting I fabricated in front of the passenger side footbox. To be honest, it's closer to the headers than I expected. The similar location frequently used on the Roadster is 4-inches from the nearest edge of the PCM to the headers in the vicinity. Bunch of them have been built this way (including #8674) so don't think it's an issue. As I've said before, those things are made for the underhood environment. But can't do anything stupid either. Where I have it mounted on this build, the bottom edge is about half that distance to the closest header tube. I'm going to work on it some more and raise the PCM more if I can. Looked again at alternate locations and orientations. Just don't see anything, especially when combined with other decisions I've made regarding the wiring and component placing. Worst case is I may need to add a heat shield. But I'll wait until it's running and probably driving and take some heat measurements.

jdavis500

11-30-2018, 03:44 PM

Shaker Hood!!

Jeff Kleiner

11-30-2018, 06:59 PM

Shaker Hood!!

Hmmmm....I've done this on a roadster so yeah, that might be a possibility for the Coupe :)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98410&d=1543622104

Jeff

kehenline

12-03-2018, 06:34 AM

paul, I would appreciate a copy of your list if this is convenient for you to get. thanks

shark92651

12-04-2018, 09:26 AM

The one thing I was anxious about was getting the Tilton HRB plumbed, bled and working. It’s done and I’m happy to report seems to be working exactly as it’s supposed to. Tilton makes multiple references in their instructions about not pushing the HRB beyond its rated throw (.70 inch) and to install a clutch pedal stop to make sure. I checked very carefully and found that with the clutch pedal hard against the back wall of the footbox, with my setup I'm 1/8 to 3/16-inch less than that. So, no point in adding an additional stop. With the pedal full down, the clutch is completely disengaged. I can easily spin the transmission output yoke with the trans in gear. I can feel it engaging and dragging as the pedal is slowly released and then full grab. Short of driving, I’m confident it’s working correctly. Hard to say about the effort. I went back and forth between #8674 with the Forte hydraulic slave setup and the exact clutch and then the new Tilton setup in the Coupe. I would say the Tilton setup is “maybe” a bit lighter. But it’s not night and day. Both work really well, so no complaints. I’m happy with how easy it was to set up and it’s quite a bit cheaper. Time will tell how it works in the real world and holds up.

Paul I'm sure you will be more careful than I was, but a word of caution on the Tilton HRB and the clutch stop. I set mine to what they recommended, push pedal until the clutch disengages the transmission + .25" and set the stop. When I went on my first go cart it was grinding a bit putting it into Reverse so I backed the clutch stop out a bit more to address that. I went on my first go cart ride and all was good. Next weekend I took my daughter out on a go cart ride a couple miles around my neighborhood and I had a problem where the clutch would not engage. I would release the pedal with the car in gear and the HRB would not retract, it wouldn't go. Eventually it retracted and I was able to get it back home and in my drive. Once parked, I could not get it to disengage again and had to push it into the garage. After my Thanksgiving trip I was able to take a look. It was hard to get a good measure, but it looked like the HRB was extended about 5/8" but I guess that was too much for the clutch spring to push it back in. I used a long screwdriver and pried it just a bit and it retracted. I re-bled the system, there are no leaks and the pedal feels fine so I assume it just extended a bit too much. I am going to re-set my clutch stop again and be more careful and hopefully I can get it to where it goes into Reverse without grinding, but not so much that it cannot retract. I was very careful when I initially set it up for the 1/8" gap so I don't think that is the issue. Just a heads up!

shark92651

12-04-2018, 09:46 AM

You have received plenty of input on the engine cover, but I had a thought. What if you used some aluminum bar and attached it to the underside of whats left of the cover front and rear, bent down the ends to fit nicely, and sort of made a frame that you can cover with aluminum and/or some metal mesh, or combination of, and make your own coil covers that are attached to the engine cover?

edwardb

12-04-2018, 09:56 AM

Paul I'm sure you will be more careful than I was, but a word of caution on the Tilton HRB and the clutch stop. I set mine to what they recommended, push pedal until the clutch disengages the transmission + .25" and set the stop. When I went on my first go cart it was grinding a bit putting it into Reverse so I backed the clutch stop out a bit more to address that. I went on my first go cart ride and all was good. Next weekend I took my daughter out on a go cart ride a couple miles around my neighborhood and I had a problem where the clutch would not engage. I would release the pedal with the car in gear and the HRB would not retract, it wouldn't go. Eventually it retracted and I was able to get it back home and in my drive. Once parked, I could not get it to disengage again and had to push it into the garage. After my Thanksgiving trip I was able to take a look. It was hard to get a good measure, but it looked like the HRB was extended about 5/8" but I guess that was too much for the clutch spring to push it back in. I used a long screwdriver and pried it just a bit and it retracted. I re-bled the system, there are no leaks and the pedal feels fine so I assume it just extended a bit too much. I am going to re-set my clutch stop again and be more careful and hopefully I can get it to where it goes into Reverse without grinding, but not so much that it cannot retract. I was very careful when I initially set it up for the 1/8" gap so I don't think that is the issue. Just a heads up!

Thanks for the feedback. I don't think mine was extending quite that far, but still shouldn't be a problem if not exceeding the .70 limit Tilton describes. I'll be watching it very closely when the time comes.

You have received plenty of input on the engine cover, but I had a thought. What if you used some aluminum bar and attached it to the underside of whats left of the cover front and rear, bent down the ends to fit nicely, and sort of made a frame that you can cover with aluminum and/or some metal mesh, or combination of, and make your own coil covers that are attached to the engine cover?

OK, that's scary. Because as of right now, I'm thinking exactly along those lines. Adding aluminum along the trimmed edge and fabricating some type of extension out over the heads. Lower and angled down. I don't expect to make it wide enough to cover the complete heads. Too many obstacles. But would definitely look more finished and cover up the majority of the wiring and hoses (more of which still to be added) that run along the upper edge of the heads.

edwardb

12-07-2018, 03:54 PM

This week of the build I’ve been jumping from one thing to the next, and seemingly not making a lot of progress. But in hindsight I guess (hopefully) I have. Focusing on trying to get everything in the engine compartment done. Completed the connection from the fuel regulator to the engine. But radiator hoses, heater hoses, A/C hoses, PS hoses, PCV hoses, and the last of the Coyote wiring still remain. To do it right, at least in my view, no one thing can be taken alone. Often they try to occupy the same space, which in some cases is limited. Also trying to do it as neat and orderly as possible of course.

The first thing was after getting the engine and headers installed, I started having second thoughts about the PCM location. Plain and simple, the headers were closer than I anticipated. After more sitting and staring, and comparing to where the PCM is mounted in #8674, decided to ask my contact at Ford about it. The response I got back wasn’t a surprise, but wasn’t what I wanted to hear. “Too close for comfort” was the official response. Including from some technical guys that were asked about it and shown pictures. I posted pictures earlier in the build thread, so won’t again. But basically it was mounted vertically in front of the passenger side footbox. With it up as high as it could go (limited by the cowl) the bottom edge of the PCM was less than 2 inches from the nearest header pipe. I could flip it over, with the wiring end down, and the PCM was probably an acceptable distance. But then the wire harness and connectors would be similarly close to the headers. Probably even more likely to be at risk. Played around with some ideas to make a heat shield, but finally concluded this orientation wasn’t going to work. I want to get this right the first time, and clearly the mounting I had before was a bad idea.

Short of tearing the engine harness apart, which I’ve said before I just don’t want to do, the large harness and connector coming off the engine to the PCM is the major factor determining the PCM location. So needed to figure out a new mounting in that same general area. The answer became pretty obvious that the PCM needed to be flat on top of the frame in front of the footbox. But it has to stay behind the front splash guards and also the gas strut that holds the cowl up when open. Turns out there’s just enough space in that location to mount it there. Means the heater and A/C hoses around the footbox will need to be re-routed a bit. But I can make it work. The guys at Ford liked my new location. It’s around 12 inches from the headers, much of the underside blocked by the frame, mounting, and footbox. And the heat sinks on the unit point up. Should like it there just fine. Actually further from the headers than the typical Roadster installation including #8674. This general area, with (obviously) the wiring routed and tied down when done:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98709&d=1544211072

So, designed and fabricated a mounting bracket from 3/16-inch thick aluminum. Actually, harvested from my #7750 Roadster build where the original owner thought the footboxes needed full 3/16-inch sheet floors. I removed and that material just keeps giving and giving. The mounting bracket is riveted to the frame, with 5/16-18 threads tapped into the bracket and frame on one side and the bracket and a second layer of 3/16-inch thick aluminum on the other side. Added some high-temp silicone rubber sheet pads under the PCM mounting ears, and I think it’s all set. It would be real easy to add a heat shield under the PCM. But unless it turns out to be a problem (I doubt it) thinking it's more important for it to have free airspace. So won't for now.

Installed bracket looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98711&d=1544211092

With the PCM attached looks like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98710&d=1544211084

The heater control valve doesn’t move, but the hoses from the inside unit will need to come out from the side instead of the top. The A/C hoses from the inside unit will also need to be slightly re-routed, including replacing that #10 hose connection (top one LH side) from a 90-degree fitting to a 45-degree fitting. It’s on the way. I’m also in the process of re-wrapping that large cable from the engine. Just the visible part from the top corner of the head to the PCM using convolute and harness wrap like all the other wiring. That should clean things up a bit. I’m planning to add extensions to the engine cover to hide more of what’s visible from there back.

With that finally done, now to finalize the other two connections to the PCM. The leg from the PDB I had already reworked and it’s fine. The third connection is for the O2 sensors. Interesting. The Gen 1 Coyote had the O2 wires built into the main control pack harness. The Gen 2 Coyote Ford moved them to the stock engine harness. For the Gen 3 they’re back off the engine harness and now have their own dedicated harness connection to the PCM. With a couple challenges. The harness has four O2 sensor connections, duplicating the OE setup with upstream UEGO connectors in the exhaust collectors (the ones we use) and a second set of downstream connectors that are after the cats which we don’t typically install. A call to Ford early in the game said downstream connectors aren’t active in the crate motor program so clip the legs off or tie out of the way. Upon further review now that the PCM is located, found the required connections for the two upstream sensors aren’t remotely close to the right configuration or length. The RH side is way too long, the LH is way too short, all on the end of large single leg. Not very usable IMO. If you want to see what the supplied harness looks like, it’s on page 10 of the Gen 3 control pack instructions. https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FORDINSTSHTM-6017-M50B.PDF

So, to make it a clean sweep, since I’ve re-worked all the other harnesses, stripped off all the harness wrap and convolute. There’s only one wire (power) that’s common to all the connections. The rest are discrete right to the PCM connector. So, clipped off the downstream wires at the connector and they’re both gone. Then, shortened the RH upstream side and while I was at it lengthened the LH upstream side. Note I could have used a standard 24-inch extension for the LH side and it would have worked fine. But figured since I had it all apart anyway, just hard wire the added length and be done with it. Then joined the common power wires and wrapped it back up. Now looks like this. Just a little different.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98712&d=1544211101

I measured and ordered the PS hoses and connectors I need from Breeze. Should be here any day. Ordered and received a Mastercool 71550 A/C Hose Crimper. It’s the one recommended in the Factory Five instructions if you want to make the A/C hoses yourself. I do. Interesting tool and will be a new experience. Waiting for a few other parts to arrive early next week and should have everything I need to complete all the connections in the engine compartment.

Free unsolicited editorial comment: This all sounds a little complicated, and maybe it is. But if you’re experienced with stuff like this, probably you are completing in less time than I’m spending doing these updates. :p If you’re not experienced, probably it seems a little intimidating. Maybe especially the Coyote part. But between the Gen 3 Coupe and the Gen 3 Coyote, much of this is pretty new. I’m learning myself on some of this as I go. As the saying goes, just take it one bite at a time.

freds

12-09-2018, 02:04 PM

[QUOTE=edwardb;349182]This week of the build I’ve been jumping from one thing to the next, and seemingly not making a lot of progress. But in hindsight I guess (hopefully) I have. Focusing on trying to get everything in the engine compartment done. Completed the connection from the fuel regulator to the engine. But radiator hoses, heater hoses, A/C hoses, PS hoses, PCV hoses, and the last of the Coyote wiring still remain. To do it right, at least in my view, no one thing can be taken alone. Often they try to occupy the same space, which in some cases is limited. Also trying to do it as neat and orderly as possible of course.

Hi Paul, I was reluctant to "dig deep" and do some serious modifications to the Ford engine harness. I chose to mount the PCM behind the engine. Had to loosen up the Ford harness a bit to get it to the PCM, but not much. I've been busy with the HVAC wiring and control valve, and realize that having a "clean slate" over and around the passenger foot box is an advantage.
Did you consider the location and orientation I have used, and if "yes" I'm curious to know what problems you foresaw.
Thanks
fred
98816
98817

edwardb

12-09-2018, 06:04 PM

Hi Paul, I was reluctant to "dig deep" and do some serious modifications to the Ford engine harness. I chose to mount the PCM behind the engine. Had to loosen up the Ford harness a bit to get it to the PCM, but not much. I've been busy with the HVAC wiring and control valve, and realize that having a "clean slate" over and around the passenger foot box is an advantage. Did you consider the location and orientation I have used, and if "yes" I'm curious to know what problems you foresaw.
Thanks
Fred

I assume the pictures of the Gen 2 installation is your build. If so, then you’ve already made your choice so it’s a little bit of an academic discussion. But happy to give some of my thoughts behind what I chose to do. First, I haven’t made any modifications to the engine harness and don’t plan to. The only thing I’m doing is to replace the loose fitting covering with tighter and cleaner convolute and harness wrap. Strictly for appearance where it shows. I did unwrap the PDB control pack harness to remove a couple unneeded wires and move the fan and start wires. Also heavily reconfigured the O2 sensor harness as shown in my last update, which is unique to the Gen 3. While those kind of changes maybe aren’t for everyone, they’re not particularly hard and probably more about my anal desire to keep things neat than true function.

But the full story of my rationale is more of a domino affect starting with the cockpit. One of my big goals for the build is to make the cockpit as finished and functional as possible. Starting with the A/C installation where I wanted more and relocated vents than how Factory Five shows them. Mocking that up, found the added ducts would nearly fill the space behind the dash. That plus what I decided to do with the gauges and switch panel meant for my build none of the Coyote components, e.g. PCM or PDB could not be on the cockpit side of the firewall where some guys put them. That meant the PDB had to either be on the firewall or over in the area of the driver’s side footbox. Since the passenger side is busy with heat and A/C stuff as you mentioned. It may have been possible to fit the PDB and the PCM in the firewall area. But (1) The Gen 3 PCM is bigger than the Gen 2 one and has three block connectors rather than two. So tight at best. Plus I’m keeping this build legal with windshield washers, and the pump/tank I’m expecting also on the firewall. (2) With the PCM on the firewall, the harness leg from the PDB to the PCM is now multiple feet too long. No way would I try to shorten it. I know some guys coil it up and put it under the upper transmission tunnel cover. Maybe that’s what you’re doing. But I just didn’t want to take that approach. (3) Most importantly, at least for me, I just didn’t want to modify the engine harness to reach back to the firewall. The Gen 3 has even more wires than before with the eight added direct injection (DI) connections. With the length that was there, I would have to free it from at least two cylinders and maybe a third. Just didn’t want to go there.

That left putting the PCM over in front of the PS footbox. Cable from the PDB fits there perfectly. Cable from the engine fits there perfectly. The engine cable from the control pack harness (alternator control, MAF) goes around the engine with just the right length. Leaves the firewall to do the power wiring config like I did on #8674 and am comfortable with plus room for the washer pump/tank. Other than my self-inflected error of initially mounting the PCM too close to the headers, the location meets my build criteria all around. I’ve mocked up the heat and A/C hoses that are in that area, and while they need to be re-routed just slightly, they fit without a lot of drama. I also had to relocate the drier/trinary a bit from where Factory Five shows it. But no big deal.

Those are my thoughts in less than 5,000 words. :) IMO this is more about personal preferences and the overall build plan than it is right or wrong. I'm showing what I did as what works best for me, and right or wrong do put a lot of thought into it. But may or may not be for everyone.

freds

12-09-2018, 06:39 PM

Thank Paul, yes it is a Gen2 in my build, and I appreciate your complete chronicle.
1. Agreed... to not put anything in the cockpit that can possibly be elsewhere.
2. Also to save volume behind the dash I made a duct distribution system, I can add vents anywhere without the hose snakes. In the attached picture I have only defroster and Driver side side vent shown. Really clears up the behind-dash space.
98833
3. I was very interested in case you noticed something I had overlooked about PCM location, and at this stage could/can easily move the PCM. So that's why I asked.
The goals and thought processes must be very similar to all builders I suppose.

Paul G

12-09-2018, 08:03 PM

There are not a lot of good options for mounting computer, this is what I did, it is similar to where it is on the Mustang, etc on the Mustang it is cover with more wire and a fuse block.
https://i1378.photobucket.com/albums/ah105/cobradriver2/IMG_20181122_112349410_zpsnxgisqnw.jpg (https://s1378.photobucket.com/user/cobradriver2/media/IMG_20181122_112349410_zpsnxgisqnw.jpg.html)

edwardb

12-09-2018, 10:09 PM

There are not a lot of good options for mounting computer, this is what I did, it is similar to where it is on the Mustang, etc on the Mustang it is cover with more wire and a fuse block.[/URL]

Shows once again there are multiple ways to approach this. I'm not sure the larger Gen 3 PCM would fit there given everything else going on plus I have power steering. I'm happy with where I put mine. Saw on your build thread you had your first start. Congrats.

edwardb

12-18-2018, 02:17 PM

Still plowing ahead. Since last update, jumping around again with power steering, heat, A/C, radiator connections, etc. Lots of dependencies (mainly for space) so need to keep everything in mind. Received the SS flex and fittings from Breeze to hook up the power steering. Had that basically done the day the package arrived. The Aeroquip hose and fittings he provides are top notch and assembly easily. I also used the Breeze -6AN rack fittings with the rubber O-rings. First time I’ve used those. Worked well and did my best not to over-tighten the O-ring seal. Decided to install a PS cooler and used the same Derale 13310 piece like I’ve done before. Maybe not needed for a street driver. But easy to do now and certainly doesn’t hurt anything. Already has the -6AN fittings. So, two more connectors and it’s done. After looking at multiple locations, centered the cooler on the back wall of the radiator tunnel where it will get bolted when that piece is installed. Worked well and gave nice easy routings for the lines. Used a couple Earl's Performance 167207ERL clamps.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99214&d=1545151098

With the lines installed, filled with Honda PS fluid that I’ve used before and like, took the belt off the pump, and spun it up with a drill motor like the KRC instructions describe. Quickly burped and the pump was working. Had my number one shop assistant (wife) turn the wheel back and forth as I was running the pump, and all is working properly. No leaks so far.

Next up it was finally time to dive into the heater and A/C hoses. But first quickly realized that before mounting the evaporator in the passenger side footbox for the last time, best to first install the carpet in the footbox. It’s tight in there and would be difficult if not impossible to install the carpet with the evaporator in place. With that decision, decided to go ahead and do both passenger and driver side footboxes. Rest of the carpet is a breeze after getting those pieces in. Used the DAP outdoor carpet adhesive I’ve used before. Works extremely well. But the smell is powerful. Needs to be used in a ventilated area with the gas heater turned off. Which I did. Then it takes a while to air out once installed. But I like it because it grabs but still allows repositioning. And the final product isn’t ever going to come off. Did all the carpet pieces in both footboxes except the floor pieces, which will be an easy add when doing the rest. The inner walls on both sides are interesting since the shapes are quite irregular. But the pieces fit with very minor trimming. Based on their complexity, don’t think I’d try those two pieces with regular contact cement or spray. Would be really easy to get them off a little and then not fit very well. For the driver’s side, I added a heel pad on the side of the footbox next to the accelerator pedal. I’ve done that on previous builds, and not only does it prevent wear to the carpet, makes the accelerator easier to operate without your shoe dragging on the carpet. The pad is a “small” size from http://www.heelpadwarehouse.com/ (talk about a niche market) glued and stitched to the carpet after giving the carpet a bit of a haircut in that area. This pic shows the final driver side footbox less the carpet on the floor. Thinking about also putting some carpet around the frame members along the bottom. But we’ll see what it looks like when finished.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99220&d=1545151241

With that done, hung the evaporator for hopefully the last time. First up were the heater hose connections from the evaporator to the bulkhead fittings. Easy enough. Next up were the A/C hoses from the evaporator to the bulkhead fittings. Here it gets a little tougher. Couple of other build threads noted this as well. One eliminating the bulkhead fitting completely. The final hoses are short, stiff, a little hard to get into place, and length is very critical. What I learned from other build threads is the hoses “grow” slightly in length when crimped, making them hard if not impossible to install if not considered. The A/C kit came with a bunch of extra fittings and plenty of hose. So, I practiced making one with spare parts, measuring before and after. What I found was the hoses grow a little less than 1/8-inch. Closer to .1000 inch. Taking that into account, made up the two hoses. Happy to say both are in and installed. As expected, they’re stiff to put in, and easy to cut an O-ring if you’re not careful. With that fixed, have them in and tightened. Hopefully don’t leak and I won’t have to touch them again. I’ll find that out later when the system is charged. Just a side note FWIW: The three brackets and small screws provided to mount the evaporator in the footbox seem a little wimpy at first. But with the four hoses attached on the back, it's a lot more stable. I'm confident it's not going anywhere. The kit comes with insulation that goes over the hoses and valve block in this area. I’m assuming to prevent condensation and dripping into the footbox. But I’ll wait until the system is charged and tested to install. Just in case... Looks like this now:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99219&d=1545151204

Made up all the other hoses, and now have them all done except for the ends that attach at the condenser in front of the radiator. I’ll get the final length and crimp those on when the radiator is mounted. I did have to move the drier/trinary switch slightly from where the Factory Five instructions showed because of where I mounted the Coyote PCM. But works out fine here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99218&d=1545151181

Speaking of making the A/C hoses, mentioned before that I picked up the Mastercool 71550 A/C hose crimper referenced in the Factory Five instructions. It’s very simple to use and a nice quality tool. Highly recommended.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99215&d=1545151157

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99216&d=1545151165

One last comment about the A/C installation at this point. The Factory Five instructions show cutting off the leads to the connector on the A/C pump and hard wiring the harness to them. Not real excited about doing that for a couple reasons. Checked with my friends at Ford and learned a Motorcraft WPT-984 connector mates to the CR33-19497-BA / DKS-17DS compressor that comes with the Coupe heat-A/C kit. Used on 05-14 Mustang 5.0 V8 BTW. Ended up getting the connector on Amazon, but they're widely available. In this case, listed by the seller as a subwoofer speaker connector, so obviously used elsewhere. But as long as it says Motorcraft WPT-984, fits perfectly.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99217&d=1545151173

Haven’t started the heat-A/C wiring yet. Will do that when I move into the cockpit and start wiring there. I’ve started but haven’t completed the radiator and hose installations. I’ll save that for the next update. Getting close to having everything in the engine compartment hooked up.

jdavis500

12-18-2018, 03:33 PM

Did you use the same DAP Outdoor Carpet Adhesive for the footpad or the 3 M that they offer on their website?

edwardb

12-18-2018, 05:39 PM

Did you use the same DAP Outdoor Carpet Adhesive for the footpad or the 3 M that they offer on their website?

I used the DAP adhesive. A little more explanation would probably be a good idea since this could be a safety issue if done poorly. With the footprint of the pad outlined with tape, I shaved probably half or more of the height of the carpet pile with some hair clippers. I didn't want to add any height plus wanted the pad pushed down near or onto the carpet backing. Then, spread the adhesive on the pad, and pushed it down onto the location. Then placed a scrap piece of wood (actually MDF) that was the exact size of the pad on top and weighted it down overnight. With that it was rock solid. But did hand stitch around the perimeter with carpet thread just to make sure the edges didn't lift. FWIW, I've used this exact process on all my builds. The oldest one going on 8 years and a lot of miles is still firmly in place. The spray adhesive sold on their website would probably be OK for horizontal surfaces. But I wouldn't use it next to the accelerator pedal like I did.

edwardb

12-25-2018, 11:43 AM

Quiet Christmas Day here. Family members all live out of town and we’ve visited recently. So just the two of us here. Good time for an update I guess. Better than checking my 401K balance. :( It’s been a pretty good week of getting a bunch of stuff out of the basement and permanently installed. Radiator tunnel sheet metal is attached. Radiator and expansion tank installed with all hoses hooked up except the heater hoses to the control valve. Will do that after the wiring is done. A/C hoses all done and hooked up. PCV hoses done. Control pack wiring mostly done including O2 sensor wires. Still a few more details to wrap up although I’ll probably never stop messing with the wiring and hoses trying to make it all as orderly as possible. My planned mod (at least right now) for the engine cover is it will have extensions that cover about half the heads. So, a lot will be covered from what’s visible now. Anyway, looks like this right now:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99524&d=1545753543

Now a few more details. This is the radiator tunnel. Kit supplied cooling fan with Breeze shroud. The Boig cool tubes fit perfectly and make that almost impossible lower radiator hose connection work OK. You can see here I’m using Gates SB PowerGrip heat shrink hose clamps. Have them most everywhere including the heater hoses. First time I’ve used them and I’m pleased with how they install. All the reviews say they grip and hold as well or better than typical metal hose clamps. Plus trying to make things as sanitary as possible. Of course the downside is they’re one-time use and have to be cut off. Hopefully that won’t be necessary very often. One hint: Huge variation in price for these things. Found them for about one third the Amazon price, which is a surprise. Google is your friend. I also used Oetiker ear clamps for most of the smaller hoses, a couple visible in the engine compartment. Again, they’re sanitary and work well. Also one-time use though obviously. Another detail visible in this picture is I moved the radiator as far to the left as it would go. Helped to get the lower radiator hose to hook up, plus gave room on the right side for the lower A/C connection to the condenser. Also visible is the small upper radiator hose connection back to the expansion tank. The petcock is removed and replaced with a Gardner-Westcott J9033 right angle fitting, then through the Ford supplied hose with a one-way valve. I did have to extend the hose to reach this far. Did cut a hole in the sheet metal and pointed it down. Would have been easier to go around the end. But I checked and that would have interfered with the cowl.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99525&d=1545753559

Closer picture of the upper radiator hose connection and upper and lower A/C connections.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99527&d=1545753577

The Moroso expansion tank installed and plumbed. The upper radiator hose that came with the control pack worked perfectly to go around the tank and then attach to the upper Boig cool tube. No trimming. Like it was made for it. Also visible here is the JLT oil separator installed in the PCV circuit, same as I did on #8674. The is a pretty common add with the Mustang performance crowd. My experience with #8674 is that it doesn’t collect a lot of oil, which is good, but still chose to use it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99528&d=1545753587

Last picture, I mentioned before I picked up a honeycomb MAF airflow straightener from Treadstone Performance Engineering when I ordered the other CAI components from them. They highly recommended it to improve the stability of the signal from the sensor. Did some further research and found many other comments that were similar. Figured it can’t hurt anything. Was going to wait, but decided just to drop it in. With a little careful sanding on the disk sander, it slid right into the neck of the pipe. I put a light coat of JB Weld around the opening before sliding it in, and it’s not going anywhere. BTW, the Treadstone Performance Engineering 90 degree silicone hose coupler, MAF adapter pipe, and air cleaner are very nice parts. I’m impressed. These were recently added to the Factory Five instructions as another option for the Coyote CAI. Especially like that the adapter pipe is beaded on both ends. When clamped (I used T-clamps) it should never separate like the event I had with #8674. The Spectre parts, which Factory Five also lists, used in #8674 didn’t fit well in the Coupe. These fit perfectly. Also can see the connection I added for the left side PCV hose. JLT has those.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99523&d=1545753535

I’ve also been doing a lot of research plus taking things apart a little figuring out the vacuum hookup on the Gen 3 intake, along with the CMCV plumbing. This is an often discussed (and confusing) subject on the Gen 2 Coyote. Pretty sure I have it sorted out. I’m waiting for one part to arrive. Then will explain how I see it’s working with the Gen 3 and how I hooked it up. Good news, it’s simpler than before. Will post hopefully in the next couple days.

RR20AC

12-25-2018, 03:03 PM

Looking Awesome Paul. The Gates clamps are everywhere on my car and not had a leak yet. The cover looks better trimmed as you have done. Talked with my cobra buddy and he said he was in for a coupe build too. I am sure you are getting a lot of guys thinking of this coupe for their next project. Merry Christmas and thanks for all the updates. Jim

Davew70

12-25-2018, 07:00 PM

Looking Awesome Paul. . . . . I am sure you are getting a lot of guys thinking of this coupe for their next project. Merry Christmas and thanks for all the updates. Jim

Ditto, looks great.

edwardb

12-28-2018, 05:42 PM

Ford added Charge Motion Control Valves (CMCV) to the Gen 2 Coyote when it was released in 2015. Also sometimes referred to as Intake Manifold Runner Controls (IMRC), which were used on some versions of the previous mod motors. But apparently this time around they are serving a different purpose, so technically not the same thing. According to Ford literature “…charge motion control valves… partially close off port flow at lower engine speeds. This increases the air charge tumble and swirl for improved air-fuel mixing, resulting in better fuel economy, idle stability, and lower emissions.”

It was common in former times to lock these out. Also common today with the Coyote by the performance crowd. But if you do, you’ll need a custom tune otherwise the PCM will throw trouble codes. I’m fine with leaving them, as I did on the Gen 2 Coyote in #8674. But out of the crate the vacuum required is not plumbed. There have been several threads and lots of posts about this, including from me. It was relatively simple to do, but still caused lots of discussion. Ford didn’t help by changing the plumbing slightly in later versions of the Gen 2. There’s also been some discussion about whether the CMCV function is even active in the special crate motor PCM tune. What I can say is (1) if you don’t plumb them you will get trouble codes (personal experience) and (2) when I reviewed the log files while working with Lund Racing on the custom tune in #8674, I could clearly see they were being commanded. I can’t confirm whether this was from the original tune or from Lund’s custom tune. But regardless they were in use. For whatever reason, which I don’t understand to this day, neither Factory Five or Ford Performance address the CMCV function in their instructions.

So with this as background, now the Gen 3 Coyote in my Coupe build. The Gen 3 Coyote has a brand new intake manifold. Side note: It apparently is a nice performance upgrade. Many are fitting the 2018 Gen 3 intake onto previous generation Coyotes with good results. The Gen 3 does still have the CMCV function. But the plumbing is changed. Perhaps because of the Direct Injection (DI) on the Gen 3 Coyote which takes up real estate under the intake that used to be open, there are no longer any vacuum or vent hoses from the back of the intake. Everything is on the front. Additionally, the Gen 3 vents the vacuum motors to atmosphere, like later versions of the Gen 2. There’s no vent tube to the intake like on early Gen 2’s, including mine in #8674.

So let’s get down to it. Here’s the intake area on my Gen 3 Coyote, with the various connections annotated and explained. I’ll cover more than the CMCV and vacuum required, just for information and clarity:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99521&d=1545753516

A = Heater hose connections
B = Upper radiator hose connection
C = Lower radiator hose connection
D and E = Connections to coolant expansion tank. Note: Capped if using Factory Five instructed T-filler and overflow tank.
F = Vacuum connection for CMCV function. This replaces the similar connection that was on the back of the Gen 2 Coyote.
G = Right side PCV connection.
H = Main vacuum port. This connects to a manifold setup in the Mustang (not included with the crate motor) which supplies vacuum to the CMCV plus the power brakes.
I = Vacuum port for evaporative emissions canister purge valve. The 2018 intake no longer has the purge valve as part of the assembly like before. It’s separate and not included with the crate motor. The only thing left is the vacuum connection. More on this later.

At the back of the intake, two things. At the top of the picture is where the system vents. To atmosphere like later generation Gen 2’s. At the bottom of the picture is the vacuum source. It's connected to item F in the previous picture. Based on the way it acted when I was testing, I suspect there’s an internal reservoir like the Gen 2’s. But I don’t have a source that confirms. Regardless, it’s a direct connection.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99522&d=1545753525

So, armed with that information, the vacuum connection to activate the CMCV function on the Gen 3 Coyote appears to be as simple as making a single connection between one of the two vacuum sources at the front of the intake and the vacuum connection for the CMCV. I chose to use the smaller vacuum connection, which is used for the purge valve in a stock setup as already mentioned. But since there’s no purge valve here, and I had a connector that already fit, I used that one and capped the larger vacuum source. Note I removed the throttle body and confirmed both vacuum sources are open into the intake. So for this purpose I believe they are interchangeable.

The other consideration is the vacuum signal for the fuel regulator. Both the Ford Performance and Factory Five instructions show using a fuel pressure regulator with a vacuum signal reference. Some builds use the GM style regulator back by the fuel tank, which is fixed and doesn’t have provision for a vacuum reference signal. Apparently it works fine. But, on a side note, the Ford Performance instructions for the Gen 3 Coyote say to set the fuel regulator at 65 PSI. Clearly more than the 55 PSI for the previous versions, and more than the fixed 58 PSI of the GM style regulator. Additionally, some custom tuners will tell you to remove the vacuum reference line, plug it, and let the regulator vent to atmosphere. Lund Racing told me that for #8674 and I’ve heard the same from at least one other tuner. Not sure about any of that. For my build with the Gen 3 I’m using a typical Aeromotive regulator, will set it for 65 PSI as instructed, and will plumb the vacuum line. If the vacuum reference signal isn't required in the future, easy to remove. So this means a “T” or “Y” connection in the vacuum line.

So I came up with this combination of parts to connect everything, mostly with parts I already had on hand. It’s not elegant, but it should do the job.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99682&d=1546032796

Installed, looks like this. As you can see, I capped the larger vacuum connection as mentioned before. Also all the other connections (heater hoses, PCV, radiator, etc.) are now completed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99683&d=1546032803

That’s it! As they say on one of the car shows, “Job done.” Hopefully... Yesterday I filled the system with 50/50 Prestone. Put in just under 4 gallons. I’ll check it and top off if needed once it’s run. Running out of things to do with the Coyote installation. Digging deep into wiring in the cockpit now. First start is getting closer.

Fixit

01-02-2019, 05:02 AM

You can see here I’m using Gates SB PowerGrip heat shrink hose clamps. Have them most everywhere including the heater hoses. First time I’ve used them and I’m pleased with how they install. All the reviews say they grip and hold as well or better than typical metal hose clamps.

I'll vouch for the PowerGrip clamps. I was introduced to them about 8 years ago by a friend doing an LS swap in a '65 Skylark, and I've got them on my '65 El Camino. They're expensive little buggers, with no margin for error - but they work sweet and look good.

edwardb

01-03-2019, 04:41 PM

Around Christmas and New Year activities, a few bowl games, etc. have been plugging away on cockpit wiring. It’s slow going because I’m working hard to keep everything as compact as possible, and away from required routings for A/C and heat ducts. Plus I tend to test things as I go. I wasn’t sure I would have to, but ended up removing the two rear harness connectors and hard wiring those. Took some unneeded length out plus the bulk of the connectors. Also removed the connector for the sender branch. Will direct wire those as well. It all adds up. Adjusted the headlight switch branch so it lands where it’s supposed to on the dash without a lot of extra. I’m temporarily using the kit supplied manual ignition switch. Decided to wire the Digital Guard Dog keyless ignition setup later after first start. I’m confident it will be OK. But just taking that out of the equation for now. All the wiring connections are crimped, very light touch of solder, and adhesive lined heat shrink sleeving. Same as I’ve done on previous builds. Not saying that's the only way to do it. Just my preference.

Wired up and successfully tested so far: All the exterior lights including backup lights, high and low beam headlights, brake lights, etc. Don’t have the switches in for the hazards or turn signals yet. But with jumpers I can make them work. The T56 reverse lockout module is working. At rest it’s got the reverse solenoid on like it’s supposed to. So slides right into reverse. I’ll be checking to make sure it switches off in motion based on the signal from the speed sensor. But can’t do that yet. Fuel pump and radiator cooling fan work. I’m saving wiring for accessories such as the A/C and heat, heated seats, wipers, washers, fog lights, and aux ports until after first start and when I start wiring the switch panel. But I've probed all the leads and they all have +12V when they're supposed to. No smoke yet, and hope to keep it that way.

I’ve also tested the Gen 3 Coyote a bit. Key on wakes it up. Throttle body is responding to the accelerator pedal. The ODB2 port is active. Turning the key to start without the clutch pedal does nothing like it’s supposed to. With the clutch pedal down the starter engages. So all perfect there. I didn’t hook the fuel pump wire to the RF fuse panel yet because I don’t want to be running the pump in a dry tank. But testing it with a VOM. It acts differently than my Gen 2. I think it’s OK but checking with Ford. Won’t explain any further until I get an answer. Don’t want to give out bad information. Also found that removing the stock oil pressure sensor is not a popular move with the PCM. Keeps throwing codes related to that. Plugged the sensor back in and the codes stopped. I was told the sensor isn’t active in the crate motor program, so made sense to simplify and just replace it with the Speedhut sensor. But apparently the PCM is still checking for it. I’ve got that open question with Ford as well.

So, for pictures, I posted this one a few weeks ago. Safe to say this was before doing much with the cockpit wiring.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95484&d=1539379882

This is from a few minutes ago.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100079&d=1546550685

More work and some clean-up to do yet, but hopefully it looks a little different. On the RH side, can see where the master disconnect is located and where the main power from the master disconnect comes into the cockpit area. The bus bar (cover not installed yet) has the RF power and alternator leads, plus powers three of the four circuit breakers at the center. The breakers are for the fog lights, headlight module, and two aux ports. The USB aux port will be powered by one of the accessory leads from the Digital Guard Dog. The other aux port I’m going to leave straight to battery. Will need to be careful, but did that intentionally so I can plug my battery tester and trickle charger there versus the somewhat inconvenient battery location. The ODB2 port is just visible on the angled frame piece below the steering column. I’m in the process of installing the inertia switch on the DS tunnel inside the angled frame piece. Room there plus reachable from the driver’s seat. The two open connectors above the steering column are for the dash/gauge cluster. Once the position is finalized above the ducts for the defroster and LH outlet, I'll mount the harness on the gauge cluster with the mating connectors oriented accordingly. My plan has always been to have the dash/gauge cluster removable, providing access to all the behind the dash wiring. So far, on track.

Just a couple more details here, then need to punch through the firewall for the engine sending units, tach, and alternator. Then this will be as far as I’m going to take the cockpit right now. Then will wire the gauge cluster and should be ready for first start.

edwardb

01-10-2019, 05:58 PM

Making progress. RF wiring from cockpit to engine compartment done. Gauge cluster wiring done. More progress with the balance of the cockpit wiring. Details with each pic.

One of the charms starting with the Gen 2 Coyote is no tach wire in the control pack. Gen 3 is no different. I mentioned earlier, but I did ask Ford about this. They said starting with the generation PCM in the Gen 2, there were no useable tach signals from the system for aftermarket tachs. Said that most installations will require a tach adapter. Fortunately, for those of us using the Speedhut gauges, it only takes a signal wire and no adapter. One of their programmable settings it based on having a single signal from one of the Coil on Plug (COP) modules. But it does require breaking into the harness to tap the wire. On the Gen 2 in #8674 I broke into cylinder #7. That seemed to fall in line with the harness from the cockpit. On the Gen 3 though, Ford has changed the layout and cylinder #5 worked out better. Doesn’t matter. All the COP modules have 2 wires. One is common to all, the other is the signal wire for that cylinder. The signal wire is the one you want. I showed more detail in the #8674 build thread. Basically, get the tape insulation off the two wires, then with a sharp knife or X-Acto, carefully remove about 1/4-inch or so of insulation from an appropriate location on the signal wire without nicking or cutting the wire. Then attach a length of wire. I did my usual crimp and touch of solder. Then wrap with a piece of electrical tape and restore the original harness tape. You can see my finished product here. I had to put a small amount of electrical tape on the outside at the top where the original harness tape was damaged when I pulled it back. The rest unwound and went back fine. I put a female spade connector on the end, and covered the wire and connector with shrink sleeve. Now ready to receive the tach wire from the cockpit. The Speedhut tach needs to be programmed to the .5 pulse per rev setting. Very important to get the proper reading on the tach.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100409&d=1547158246

With that, I was able to punch through the firewall and hook up the balance of the connections from the cockpit. Tach (described above), water temp, oil pressure, and the battery charging wire from the alternator. Engine connections are now completed. Wrapped up some more details in the cockpit wiring. Remaining are turn signal/hazards, wiper washer, and my center switch panel which includes the heat/AC connections. But nothing that prevents first start.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100413&d=1547158277

Then onto the gauge cluster. As of this afternoon, it’s done and everything lights and works the way it’s supposed to. Voltage gauge is working. Should see the gas gauge when I finally put some gas in the tank. The rest will be tested with the engine actually running to see tach, water temp and oil pressure. Speedo acquires GPS and I’m sure it will work fine whenever this thing moves under its own power.

To start, as mentioned before, wanted the harness to be oriented in the proper location to meet up with the connectors behind the dash plus stay out of the way of the heat/AC ducting. Decided I wanted something to hang the harness and connector leads on so it stays in the right place plus not tugging on all the wiring connections. After thinking about it a bit, quickly fabbed up a bracket that goes under one of the gauge retainer rings and allows me to secure the harness leads.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100410&d=1547158253

Installed on the tach gauge, finalized the location, and took the “before” picture.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100412&d=1547158270

Some hours later, everything all hooked up and tested. Still haven’t figured out the best way to manage the two daisy chains Speedhut uses for the gauges. No way to make them very pretty, and don’t want to get carried away and make service difficult should the need arise. So basically, just stack them up and secure with tie wraps. Couple clips and everything will be loose again. With a little creativity I was able to get every connection required for the gauge cluster through the two existing connectors except the GPS antenna.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100414&d=1547158286

This Saturday we’re having another open house with our local club like the one we did last year. Lots of folks interested in the Coupe build and hopefully they’ll agree there’s some progress. Fun to share and I enjoy their company. Just a few more loose ends and should be ready for first start. Stay tuned.

Papa

01-10-2019, 06:06 PM

Nice clean wiring, as always.

Dave

stevant

01-10-2019, 07:31 PM

Can’t say anything more than others already have expressed......amazing progress, awesome attention to detail.

Great job Paul...... been away too long, have a lot of good posts to read!!!

wareaglescott

01-10-2019, 10:31 PM

Looks great Paul! Eagerly awaiting first start :cool:

edwardb

01-13-2019, 04:20 PM

Today finished the last details before first start, so went for it. No particular surprises really. Put fuel in the tank for the first time. Nearly all of a 5 gallon can and shows a little under 1/4 full on the gauge. Good. Took a bit to get the Aeromotive regulator set. Needs to be 65 PSI, according to the Ford instructions, for the Gen 3 Coyote. The short bursts of the fuel pump when turning the key to run was taking a long time and didn't seem to tell me much. So just hot wired the fuel pump so it would run continuously with the key off (clip lead into the RF fuse panel) and that worked. The regulator was way off and I would probably never have gotten it set without doing it that way. Checked all the fuel lines and connections and no signs of any leaks. With that, no more excuses. So set the camera on a tripod, had a fire extinguisher nearby and cranked away. It didn't jump to life like my previous Coyote. But still started and all good. Had immediate oil pressure and tach reading. Plus voltage jumped up a bit so the alternator was working. Some smoke off the new headers, but that cleared. After the first 1 minute or so run, stopped and looked everything over. No sign of any leaks or any issues. Ran it a few more times. Subsequent starts were nearly instant like I'm used to. Water temp gauge and cooling fan work. Since the rear wheels were off the ground, ran the transmission through a couple gears. All good, and the reverse lockout module is working properly. These aren't the greatest videos, but you get the idea. The last video, with the engine at temp, hit it harder a couple times. It sounds angry. I have temporary Roadster side pipes on it right now. BTW, the first video is the real deal. Actually is the very first attempt to start. No camera tricks. :p

https://youtu.be/4ytnm8CV5ZQ

https://youtu.be/aESV65nw4ok

https://youtu.be/6ZqzZrdcMSY

https://youtu.be/LY6-IUp3na8