818Rasmus E Modified

[Scargo]

I'll try this again... I am in British Columbia. Reception is spotty for the internet and phone. I had a big post like this typed and lost it.

It is great to see you doing these things in lieu of a dry sump. I've done a ton of reading on the Subie forums and I think you have, too. I think I will do dry sump on my 818 but on the new motor I just finished for my STi I decided to experiment. I am aiming for 530 crank HP or 430 at four wheels and 8K RPM.
Where you are going for tighter tolerances and a 10mm pump, I went very loose and am running a 12mm pump. I went wild, where you went mild. I ported the oil pump like crazy and put a deep back on it, that I think comes on an 11mm pump. The bypass valve is blocked from opening. I have installed a Peterson external bypass valve on the right, rear gallery hole. A line goes to my Accusump from there and the bypass routes oil into the side of the oil fill tube. I tapped the flat spot on the fill tube for a 1/2 NPT. If centered properly the fitting nestles in there quite nicely.
On the block, I heavily radiused all the bends in the oil galleries and opened everything up as in "gasket-matching" of passages. I have a lot of burrs from my exercises in head porting. I am using a KB windage tray, pickup and pan. Also a remote filter and oil cooler. Almost 10 quart capacity.
I also paid a lot of attention to the water passages and plumbing. I do not have any water going to the throttle body. That feed line and return line are eliminated. I am using a 1/2" silicone hose to go straight to the expansion tank off the pump. I smoothed, radiused and enlarged the coolant crossover pipe's connections. I reworked the turbo feed and drain for improved efficiency. On the head venting I am using 5/8" aluminum tubing and rubber elbows to make the end connections between the heads. With my reversed N/A intake it is like a vast wasteland back there now. Pictures to follow.

[Rasmus]

Glyn, I like the idea of the oil bypass at the end-of-the-line in the oil galley array, directly returning to the sump. When bypassing, the oil pump won't churn up the same oil over and over heating up just a small volume of fluid. You'd slowly heat up the whole sump. Plus you'd be able to dial up or down oil pressure maximum really easy. Pricey, but trick. Good thinking there.


http://i.imgur.com/A8P8PKf.jpg
Gapping rings with a torque plate on was harder than thought it would be. The big issue was making sure the ring I was working with sat at the same depth in the bore all around it's circumference. The torque plate prevented me from using the usual method of just pushing a ring down with a piston with it's 2nd ring still on.

http://i.imgur.com/eq7DE16.jpg
But it was fascinating seeing the variation in grind-to-fit rings as delivered vs. desired gap.
Bore 1, Top Ring: .015" ---> .020"
Bore 2, Top Ring: .014" ---> .020"
Bore 3, Top Ring: .014" ---> .020"
Bore 4, Top Ring: .013" ---> .020"

Bore 1, 2nd Ring: .010" ---> .022"
Bore 2, 2nd Ring: .011" ---> .022"
Bore 3, 2nd Ring: .010" ---> .022"
Bore 4, 2nd Ring: .011" ---> .022"

[Frank818]

Looks like perfect gaps, can it be any better?

[STiPWRD]

But it was fascinating seeing the variation in grind-to-fit rings as delivered vs. desired gap.
Bore 1, Top Ring: .015" ---> .020"
Bore 2, Top Ring: .014" ---> .020"
Bore 3, Top Ring: .014" ---> .020"
Bore 4, Top Ring: .013" ---> .020"

Bore 1, 2nd Ring: .010" ---> .022"
Bore 2, 2nd Ring: .011" ---> .022"
Bore 3, 2nd Ring: .010" ---> .022"
Bore 4, 2nd Ring: .011" ---> .022"

That's about the same thing I saw with my JE piston ring gaps and the same ring file I used. I noticed the file sometimes left burrs on the edges of the ring gaps that I had to lightly sand down with some sand paper. I didn't have a torque plate though, have you found that it makes a difference for the ring gaps? I know it's important to have for setting bearing clearances and boring/honing the cylinders.

[Rasmus]

...have you found that it makes a difference for the ring gaps?

I was curious too.


http://i.imgur.com/ve44raI.jpg
Realized that when I gapped my rings the first time, I didn't use my torque plate...

And did the gaps change? Yes.

Position - gap w/o head studs torqued ---> Gap with head studs torqued
#1 Top Ring - .020" ---> .022"
#1 2nd Ring - .022" ---> .024"

#2 Top Ring - .020" ---> .022"
#2 2nd Ring - .022" ---> .024"

#3 Top Ring - .020" ---> .021"
#3 2nd Ring - .022" ---> .022"

#4 Top Ring - .020" ---> .022"
#4 2nd Ring - .022" ---> .024"

Every bore's rings got wider by .002". Except bore 3. 3's only got wider by .001"

[STiPWRD]

That is interesting, so the gaps got a bit wider. I guess that's better than them getting narrower. Thanks for posting.

[Rasmus]

That is interesting, so the gaps got a bit wider.

Also keep in mind that I'm using ARP head studs that use more clamping force/torque than OEM studs. Would that make a difference? I don't know. I do know that clamped vs open makes a small difference.

[Scargo]

I had a small "gulp" when I read about your ring gapping experience as I have never had torque plates. I gapped mine to .020" and .024". I am using fully coated CP pistons.
I made my own ring grinder fixture using a Dremel with large diameter cut-off disc and a one inch dial indicator to monitor my cut. I slide the Dremel in a bracket I fabricated and there is some "holding your mouth right" to get accuracy and repeatability. I can cut them quite square with it.
54089

[Rasmus]

Nice tool for ring gapping. I'd be so scared using a power tool to gap rings. I love how you've got the dial indicator so you can control how much is ground off. I found with my manual tool that 9 turns of the hand crank on my tool increased the gap ~.001". And that's with the pressure I put on it and the way I hold it. So someone else's mileage will vary depending on how they hold the ring.


there is some "holding your mouth right" to get accuracy and repeatability.

You ain't a joking there. When I do this fine measuring work I have to limit my usual caffeine intake. So my hands don't want to shake and my heart slows down. When I was using the bore gauge for the mains that measured to .00005" I could see my heart beat in the gauge's reading. At first I though my gauge was bad but noticed it would "pulse" with my heart.

[Rasmus]

Prepping to put the short block together, I started cleaning it. First time I cleaned just the exterior of the case. Using mineral spirits and brass brushes to remove the big oil, carbon, and white chalky build ups. So the outside would look nicer. It's not even close to show car good, but's it's way better than it was. Second time I cleaned I used mineral spirits on a siphon feed, blow gun at 80 psi to clean the oil galleys and internal surfaces without brushes.


http://i.imgur.com/eIxEn8f.jpg?1
The above is from the third time I've cleaned the block. This time I used mineral spirits on a siphon feed, blow gun at 80 psi. Then scrubbed each galley run with an appropriate sized brass "pipe-cleaner". Flushed again with mineral spirits at 80. Finally, blew it all out with compressed air. Look at that collection of shiny metal bits that came out. That's just what hit the pan. I wiped the pan clean before I started.

[Scargo]

Urg. Not what I want to see. I must avert my eyes. :rolleyes:
I have to pray that all my particles are beyond the bearings and all are headed towards the oil filter. Thanks, Debbie Downer...

[Rasmus]

all my particles are beyond the bearings
Sand to fit bearings, the latest in engine building technology. :o

[Rasmus]

http://i.imgur.com/R6gpX0E.jpg
This is how well mineral spirits and brass bristle tools clean aluminum. You know you're done went it starts to get that slight gold color. At that point the brushes have cleaned as much as they're going to clean.

[Rasmus]

And now for "Questionable Moments in Engine Assembly with Amateur Engine Builder Rasmus"

http://i.imgur.com/oqewxK2.jpg
Glued in main bearings! You can see the two little dabs of Loc-tite I placed in the stamped lettering on the back of that #1 bearing. I did it for all 10 halves. The areas of the bearings nearest the parting line have the largest diameter. If your eyes could detect it, the mains bearing are kinda egged shaped. Tighter nearest the thrust sections (e.i. the middle or 90 degree from the parting line). Fattest at the parting line. Before gluing them in I measured a ~0.0025" (+/- 0.0005") difference from the middle of a main bearing to 10 degrees from it's parting line. For example 2.3634" vs 2.3659". I used no loc-tite near the middle of the bearings. Only near 10 degrees from the parting line.

http://i.imgur.com/EtOPN0p.jpg
I used so little that none of it squished out when I put the bearings in.

http://i.imgur.com/QP10i2Y.jpg
Even after torquing the block together so the loc-tite would set up faster, none of it squeezed out.

[Hindsight]

Very nice - so clean you could eat off it. You don't suppose that loctite will change bearing clearance in any way?

[Frank818]

Man that engine will be the most optimal in the World. I can't wait to see the results on the road and dyno.

It is balanced and blueprinted right?

[lance corsi]

Wrong use of loctite. It isn't an adhesive.

[Rasmus]

Loctite is an adhesive. In fact it's a thin, single-component adhesive that is methacrylate-based and relies on the electrochemical activity of a metal substrate to cause polymerization of the fluid. Loctite cures when exposed to electrochemically active metals, such as aluminium, and placed in an anaerobic environment. Source (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thread-locking_fluid). Loctite works best in shear.

I am only using it to keep my bearings in place so they don't fall out or rotate out of place during assembly, like last time (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12631-818Rasmus-E-Modified&p=211572&viewfull=1#post211572). I'm in no way expecting this to keep the bearings in place while it's running. That's what the tangs are for.

[lance corsi]

Rasmus,
I cannot tell which Loctite grade you are using, but I have always used the 262 compound, and I can say without question that the adhesive qualities which you have extolled are the pressures induced from the anaerobic expansion of the product. When disassembling parts which have been bound together by Loctite, quite often it is possible to remove the remaining flake of Loctite with little more than your fingernail or light wire brushing. This isn't the same as a bond such as epoxy or similar. The product works well when applied to captivated parts, not so much for single-sided elements such as bearing shells. The expansion of Loctite pushes evenly on the entire surface, effectively locking the parts together, but on elements which aren't fully encircled by their companion part, it will not hold. For example, try bonding 2 flat plates together with Loctite. It doesn't have the bonding properties of glues or epoxies. As far as your application is concerned, I cannot argue against it, but I can say that neither I nor anyone else I know has experience with using this product for this application. If some errant product would end up in an oil passage, the results could be catastrophic, causing yet another lost engine. The Subaru engine design is tried and true, so I would not recommend departing from normal engine building techniques related to these engines. There are many people of all skill levels who read this forum for advice related to this engine, so I would recommend to these people to think long and hard about using Loctite for this application.
Loctite is a very good product and has saved many users countless dollars when properly used, however everything has its place and I don't believe this is a good application for Loctite. In fact, I would question why the bearing shells were loose in their pockets to begin with.

[Rasmus]

Did some tests with chromate plated washers held in a vice over night with red loctite between just a small portion of their interior surface areas. It didn't hold. Now I know something I didn't before. Thanks.

[Rasmus]

http://i.imgur.com/sbouNj0.jpg
Crankshaft installed. Pistons installed. Wrist pins installed. Wrist pin C-clips in and triple checked to make sure they're in. If I knew before what I know now I wouldn't have gone with+4mm over connecting rods. It's just crazy complicated for an amateur to put this together. If I could go back in time I would still go with a 75mm stroke crankshaft but keep pistons with their wrist pins at the OEM height instead of the +2mm mine are at. +4 mm con.rod causes you to have to go way off book to get the short block assembled. With +2mm you just assemble according to the FSM. So much easier.

Tomorrow I hope to get RTV between the mating surfaces of the block halves, and torque the case bolts up for the final time; perhaps I'll have me a short-block.

[Scargo]

Aww, let's see a smile! Knowing that you are about there and have it figured out, why not keep building them? I can hardly wait to hear mine scream.
It's good to know that there is plenty of room to get sealant in there. Perhaps you will be replacing the wood with something like nails or bent wire when you go to applying sealant? How to insure that these spacers don't accidentally fall in and/or create a way to fish them out if they do? Am I overthinking this?
Is that a Jeweler's screwdriver in your hand and about the coffee filters... What do you know about coffee filters that I don't?

[Rasmus]

Perhaps you will be replacing the wood with something like nails or bent wire when you go to applying sealant? How to insure that these spacers don't accidentally fall in and/or create a way to fish them out if they do? Am I overthinking this?
Last time I just used two sockets to hold the block open to get the sealant in.



Is that a Jeweler's screwdriver
Yes. It was going to be used to make sure the wristpin C-Clips were full seated. But there's just not enough room in there to get c-clip pliers, the jewelers driver, and both of my fat hands. Ended up using only the c-clip pliers to pinch and push. I only dropped, and had to fish out, one c-clip from inside the block this time 'round. Progress.

http://i.imgur.com/tHOiIzq.jpg

the coffee filters... What do you know about coffee filters that I don't?
I was watching a verbose youtuber that likes working on Mitsubishi stuff. He recommended them for use as lint-free cloths. So I decided to get them a try using the ones I already have at the house. They worked so well I went to a restaurant supply house, here in Vegas, and bought a 500 stack of the largest coffee filters they had. They're great. They don't leave lint or fibers on anything. Unless I snag it on a sharp edge or corner and rip it. They're super cheap. $12 for 500. They're white so I know when something needs more cleaning. Disposable, so I don't need to sneak a load of greasy, "lint-free", cloths into the washer. And an added benefit is I can use them to filter particulates out of some oils and solvents. For example, I filtered and reused the hydraulic oil for the 20-ton bottle jack I rebuilt last week.

[Mechie3]

Some loctites can be used as adhesives. I've used loctite 648 to glue a hysteresis plate onto an aluminum backer for use in a DC motor mag brake application. I think what I'm trying to say is, Loctite is a brand, not a product, and they make many many different types of thread lockers and adhesives. Each has a different purpose and application.


I once used a coffee filter to filter some 2 stroke oil that had gotten bugs and dirt into it. Slow going, but worked in a pinch when I realized the night before I was low on oil. Had no idea about the lint free properties though. That's pretty slick.

[longislandwrx]

Had no idea about the lint free properties though.

They are also great for cleaning car windows.

Congrats Rasmus. Epic engine build. Honeybadgers be praised. Your beard is shorter than I imagined.

[Tamra]

So glad to see you back at it, Rasmus. We still have an E-Mod date in Lincoln sometime :)

[Frank818]

So cool to see you update frequently! Getting there man, getting there!

[Rasmus]

We still have an E-Mod date in Lincoln sometime
Yes. Yes we do. My driving skills are like steering-knuckles from Connecticut: rusty. But I can ****-talk like a pro.

http://i.imgur.com/N34qPNt.jpg
For the first time in my life, I built a shortblock. It's a 2.33 liter, 75mm stroke, 99.75 mm bore, with 134.5 mm c-to-c connecting rods. Called a Honeybadger by the Subaru tuning community.

http://i.imgur.com/X0wmPp8.jpg
The temptation is to go crazy with the RTV when sealing the case halves together, but the pro's and experienced builders said and wrote to use just a light coat, yet insuring you get all the surfaces. Glad I went light. That how much squishes out when you torque it up. I even remembered to put the four o-rings in.

Now what's an easy way to the the rear main seal in?

[Scargo]

I believe I have been using a 3" PVC fitting.
https://assets.nationalbuildersupply.com/images/productimages/nibco-480323.jpg;width=300;height=300;bgcolor=White
You could get fancy and put a cap on the end to hit against. I just bridged the end of the fitting with a piece of wood. Tap evenly. I believe they want you to put lube on the seal and again, my memory says that you put it in just flush.

Glad to see the block together! Look purdy.