818Rasmus E Modified [Archive] - Page 2

Scargo

03-27-2014, 12:50 PM

Lower A/R turbines will get you the spool-up sooner and bring on torque quicker. What you need for blasting out of those continuous tight, slow corners.:D

I like playing in Borg Warner's Matchbot. Here's what I came up with for your motor. (http://www.3k-warner.de//aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=250&baro=14.604&aat=75&turboconfig=1&compressor=83s74&pt1_rpm=3400&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=22&pt1_ie=90&pt1_filres=0&pt1_ipd=0.1&pt1_mbp=0.1&pt1_ce=68&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=1.7&pt1_pw=7.22&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=22&pt2_ie=88&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=0.15&pt2_ce=70&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=1.85&pt2_pw=19.49&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5200&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=22&pt3_ie=85&pt3_filres=0.11&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=0.3&pt3_ce=75.5&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=1.97&pt3_pw=27.62&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=6000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=22&pt4_ie=85&pt4_filres=0.12&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=77&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=2.07&pt4_pw=32.24&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=7000&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=22&pt5_ie=84&pt5_filres=0.13&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=0.8&pt5_ce=76.5&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.16&pt5_pw=34.03&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=8500&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=22&pt6_ie=83&pt6_filres=0.1&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=1&pt6_ce=75&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.36&pt6_pw=38.67&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) Altitude and other efficiencies may be off a little, but you can tweak it.
What I like about Matchbot is it gives you numbers, maps and graphs and you can constantly tweak it. You can use it's numbers to compare to other turbo data.

Based on 93 octane pump gas and 22PSI... a BW AirWerks S300SX can pump almost 70 lb/min. With a .92 A/R turbine it can make huge torque at 3,700 RPM and can still get to 10K. The 3071 cannot sustain the 22 pounds of boost past 6000 RPM and then it's down to .6 efficiency.
Perhaps look at a GTX3076R with .82 A/R twin scroll (http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-009&Category_Code=) hot side? That looks sweet to me.
Caveat: I am not an expert, by any means. My experience is limited. Just hunches based on what I've read.

Frank818

03-27-2014, 01:07 PM

Scargo, that matchbot looks great, but of course there are values quite hard to know on a specific engine. It's nice to see the trends and min-max results based on min-max values you'd input, so it gives a nice idea. :)

Rasmus

03-27-2014, 02:48 PM

I like playing in Borg Warner's Matchbot.
That thing is fun! Thanks, man. :)

Messed around with it. The BorgWarner EFR 7163 looks really nice with me inputting data closer to what I'll be doing (http://www.3k-warner.de///aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=2200&baro=13.808&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=71x80&pt1_rpm=3500&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=25&pt1_ie=95&pt1_filres=0&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.1&pt1_ce=68&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=2.22&pt1_pw=25.48&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=34&pt2_ie=95&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.2&pt2_mbp=0.15&pt2_ce=70&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=3.09&pt2_pw=32.76&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5500&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=30&pt3_ie=95&pt3_filres=0.4&pt3_ipd=0.3&pt3_mbp=0.3&pt3_ce=75.5&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=3.25&pt3_pw=40.19&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=7000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=24&pt4_ie=95&pt4_filres=0.4&pt4_ipd=0.4&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=77&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=3.12&pt4_pw=47.35&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=95&pt5_filres=0.3&pt5_ipd=0.5&pt5_mbp=0.8&pt5_ce=76.5&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.63&pt5_pw=51.77&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9000&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=13&pt6_ie=95&pt6_filres=0.1&pt6_ipd=0.6&pt6_mbp=1&pt6_ce=75&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.29&pt6_pw=54.46&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&).

icky

03-27-2014, 03:18 PM

That was the other turbo I was interested in but opted for the garret because of their warranty policy and turbines shearing off the shaft. The efr definitely has a much better transient response.

Edit: I have a history of destroying turbos on accident. First I will say that maf air straighteners are crap, sucked one into my first gt35 core. Second one is why I put this edit up, installing a cheap up pipe and installing the oem egt probe. The problem is with the cat there the egt probe can not go into the turbine, when you remove the cat it (and add extra power) the egt probe easily comes off and destroys the turbo. So, to all that don't know subaru's well if you buy a catless up pipe, plug the hole and insert a resistor in the harness to trick the oem ecu (don't just delete the code). Advice came from thebooscreep after I ruined my turbo.

Scargo

03-27-2014, 05:07 PM

Your welcome. I don't have mine running yet, but I am really impressed with the engineering and quality of the EFR. This after a Blouch, which is no slouch.:o
The compressor whirly-jig thingie (impeller?) is beautiful. The finest finished, most elaborate one I've seen. I say this as an ex-machinist and business owner who had high-speed machining centers. Probably six axis work.
27318

Rasmus

03-27-2014, 06:17 PM

That's a beauty. Thanks so much for the tip.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af218/alloycraft/glamorpic.jpg
Heavily considering the EFR 7163 with Twinscroll .80 A/R turbine housing, with the built in waste-gate. A built in waste-gate is just awesome in and of itself for a twin scroll. I don't have to drop 2 X $375 for twin Tial 38mm waste gates. Everything's easier to plumb. Nice find!

Scargo

03-27-2014, 06:50 PM

It's got such small anti-surge openings (shown) around the perimeter, that they are hardly noticeable.

Rasmus

04-10-2014, 04:54 PM

No updates on the car.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t278/RasmusHansen/Factory%20Five%20Racing%20818R/IMG_0494.jpg
But for my shoulder, I'm starting to look like a lobster, one big arm. I'm trying to square up my shoulders in this photo. Notice how lop-sided I am from my muscles atrophying. No pain though.

I just got approval to go to physical therapy. "Electro-Muscle Stimulation and Gentle Range of Motion, Passive Only". So they're gonna zap my muscles so they don't atrophy further and stretch me a-bit. 4 weeks; 3x per week.

Just be sitting around getting fat and weak. Lame. But, I am glad I live in an age where we have the understanding to know what's wrong with my arm and medical science to fix it. Go, Science!

Scargo

04-10-2014, 06:01 PM

I can relate. I am usually very active, don't like getting old and/or the physical ailments. After weeks of bronchitis I just pulled apart the six-speed transaxle for my STi. I am installing OS Giken diffs and close-ratio fifth and sixth and doing twin-scroll turbo upgrade on my STi.
Problem is, I cannot finish in time for five days at Watkins Glen with my buddies at the end of the month. I am renting a friend's car. I will be out of shape but having fun. Most people do not realize how taxing two hours per day in a race car can be.

Frank818

04-10-2014, 07:30 PM

Keep it up Rasmus!! If your arm gets rusty, you know what to do!! :D

metros

04-10-2014, 07:47 PM

Once you're cleared to actually use your arm actively again you'll be surprised to see how fast it catches up to the other side. Plus if it's your dominant side then it'll surpass the other side in a surprisingly short amount of time.

<---Occupational Therapist - works in a rehab clinic side by side with physical therapists. More focused on the upper half of your body than mobility/lower half like physical therapists.

Hang in there and follow your PT guidelines strictly.

ssssly

04-11-2014, 12:21 AM

You can also get 3071R wheels installed in Subaru twin scroll turbos. Are a couple companies doing it now. 6star speed being one of them. Can a la carte them as well. Dual ball bearing, billet gtx wheel etc. Was running a ported vf34 compressor housing with a vf42 twin scroll hot side, ball bearing, billet gt3071r wheel in my STI spec C before I tore it apart to move back to the US. Hit 30psi before it blew the BPV seal. Retuned it to 28. Was smooth onset and spooled around 3600 RPM with a hybrid MBC/EBCS system on a 2.0l. The cams and AVCS on the spec C heads are more aggressive than the stock USDM heads though.

I'm on the list with full-race for the BW 7163 as well.

Any of these turbos should be more than enough in a 818.

Good luck with the shoulder. Battling shoulder and back injuries myself.

longislandwrx

04-11-2014, 05:48 AM

"Electro-Muscle Stimulation and Gentle Range of Motion, Passive Only".

I got this for my ankle a few years back, it went well 59/60 times. One time the therapist put the electrodes on with the gel wrapped it up and put the heat on it as usual. She turned it up to the normal setting, and asked how it felt, I said weaker than usual, so she turned it up a little, furrowed her brow a little, then turned it up a little more. Finally it felt the same as I was used to. She left the room and all went well for about 20 minutes, until I shifted my leg an the electrode that must not have been on all the way made contact. My leg locked up straight like something you see in the cartoons, could not move it as much as I tried. I didn't want to make a big deal about it so I'm trying to get her attention discreetly, which didn't happen. Finally I was able to get someone's attention to shut it off. We laughed about it. Good luck.

SixStar

04-17-2014, 10:45 AM

Not sure if you're planning on running the GTC-300 rear wing, but if you do make sure you use a very low AOA. We ran some models and when you really start to tilt it forward you get some bad separation.

28075

Just an FYI :D

Frank818

04-17-2014, 11:25 AM

Frank818

04-17-2014, 11:26 AM

Hey Rasmus, how's the arm feeling, now? How many cups of coffee you can lift?

FFRSpec72

04-17-2014, 11:47 AM

Finished going though box 6 yesterday. Under Seat Aluminum. Indicated by number 12 in the photo.

So for that I'm replacing that with steel, like the foot well, as I don't like track items coming up through the floor or up through the seat as my seat will be on the steel (as close as possible)

wleehendrick

04-17-2014, 11:52 AM

What's bad in the picture?

I'm no CFD expert, but I assume it's the dark blue turbulent flow at the trailing edge.

SixStar

04-18-2014, 04:58 PM

I'm no CFD expert, but I assume it's the dark blue turbulent flow at the trailing edge.

Yep. You want all the air to be going in the same direction. The GTC-300 isn't ideal for the 818R without the S windscreen. It's an off the shelf sedan wing that splits the difference on drag and downforce, but at steep AOA it turns into a big air brake.

We're working with a company on an SCCA Solo XP and NASA TT legal wing that will be MUCH better for the 818R.

Santiago

04-18-2014, 06:24 PM

There are a lot of considerations to take in when looking at an appropriate wing. The APR wing has a twisted profile, which is not so much trying to split the difference between drag and downforce as it is trying to optimize different AOA for different airflow angles seen as the airflow approaches the wing.

You regularly have this situation on a sedan, especially on a car with a fastback-style rear window and wide fender arches. Air coming over the rear window is not approaching the wing at an angle parallel to the ground, so having the center of the wing twisted up here helps avoid stall. Along the sides of the car, air is closer to parallel with the ground, so you can run a given AOA without stalling.

Of course, all this doesn't really apply to the 818, as Six Star said. FFR only ran a 5 deg AOA in the wind tunnel tests, and last rumor I heard was that they have tried a traditional single-profile wing on the blue 818R mule.

I'd like to know what AOA was run on the CFD simulation above. Saying you need to run "a very low AOA" isn't really helpful without knowing more about when the CFD sims started showing significant separation.

Also, there's nothing inherently bad about a low AOA; quite the contrary really. If you can get your required downforce to balance the car aerodynamically with a low AOA, so much the better - you'll take less of a drag penalty to get the job done. There's no inherent reason to want a higher AOA absent a need for balance. If you need to work the rear wing hard to balance out the front, then you want the ability to run a higher AOA without separation. But that all depends on your ability to generate that much downforce in front. If you can't generate that, who cares if you can't run more than 5-10 deg AOA on this or that wing? It all depends on the balance.

So for folks who have picked up the full compliment of FFR aero gear, there's no reason to worry much. FFR worked out a balanced package, tested it in the wind tunnel and confirmed it on track (actually, they did track testing, then tunnel, then back to track). If you found that you wanted more downforce in the rear, you need a plan for the front as well. And of course, if you just want "more" all around (in a balanced pkg., of course), then you are likely looking for a different rear wing and had better be prepared to do something with the rest of the car.

Best,
-j

apexanimal

04-18-2014, 07:17 PM

One of the 949 miatas found that it was best for them to run just a couple degrees of negative aoa (pointed nose up) due to the angle the air was coming off the roof and hitting the center section...

Imo, 3d shaped wings are extremely hard to match to a specific car without a lot of testing... It is simpler, easier to test, and sometimes more effective, to do a single profile wing and put it high enough to not be effected much by the air coming over the cabin...

.02

Santiago

04-18-2014, 08:35 PM

Imo, 3d shaped wings are extremely hard to match to a specific car without a lot of testing... It is simpler, easier to test, and sometimes more effective, to do a single profile wing and put it high enough to not be effected much by the air coming over the cabin...

.02

Bucks baby...worth more than $0.02...

Frank818

04-25-2014, 06:31 AM

Arm updates, Rasmus?

Rasmus

05-07-2014, 12:27 PM

Had to take a break from the forums. It was mentally agonizing just sitting and healing, seeing everyone else make progress. Finally got cleared from my physical therapist to work on my car. He said, "Working with it will actually help gain your range of motion and strength. Just don't load it up more than 15 lb, or put it in any stressed positions" So I'm back! Happiness! I still have 4 more weeks of P.T. but I least I don't have to sit on my *** anymore.

http://i.imgur.com/qNOTmvt.jpg
Pulled all the panels off, and got to sit in it for the first time.

http://i.imgur.com/UNcrMqX.jpg
Stored the panel in various locations.

http://i.imgur.com/0zBKv1c.jpg
One of which the S.O. noticed.

http://i.imgur.com/hB3lESQ.jpg
Riveted the 7 panels that make up the front firewall in place.

http://i.imgur.com/BbJ59Na.jpg
Satisfying work.

Frank818

05-07-2014, 12:31 PM

Great, you're back! And better every day.
Still de-rusting parts or you're done on that?

David Hodgkins

05-07-2014, 12:34 PM

Glad to see you back at it! Are you using silicone when riveting?

:)

Rasmus

05-07-2014, 12:50 PM

Still de-rusting parts or you're done on that?
Yep. Had a rear knuckle in there just yesterday.

Glad to see you back at it! Are you using silicone when riveting?
Yep, Clear, 100% Silicone. It's a GE product advertised for rain gutters and roof flashing. "Sun/Freeze-Proof" it reads.

68GT500MAN

05-07-2014, 01:29 PM

Glad to hear that the PT support your build. A little progress each day will eventually become a "real" car!
Doug

longislandwrx

05-07-2014, 02:51 PM

Make like suey and

chop...

chop.

welcome back :cool:

Rasmus

05-15-2014, 08:33 PM

Shoulder's feeling much better. My Physical Therapist tells me I'm progressing well. Good times.

Been working on a way to make my donor bolts rust resistant without going crazy with the chemicals.

http://i.imgur.com/9ttNCKz.jpg
The bolt on the left is how some of my donor bolts looked and how my process started. Bolt in the middle is how it one looks after I media blasted it with Aluminium Oxide at 60 psi. Bolt on the right is how the blasted bolt looks after I give it a dip in Klean-Strip Phosphoric Prep and Etch for 10 minutes. Which made the metal develop a chalky black coating that easily rubbed off (magnetite?). To seal the black on I dipped it in motor oil and baked it for 30 minutes @ 375*F. 375 was right at the "smoke point" of the oil I used. 5w-20.

http://i.imgur.com/32a309c.jpg
I did the oil dip and oven part 3 times.

Time will tell if it works. Only thing I'd change would be using to use dirty motor oil instead of the fresh stuff. I feel like the extra carbon in the used oil would help keep the oil "baked on".

Rasmus

05-15-2014, 08:55 PM

http://i.imgur.com/64ll5xK.jpg
In order to keep the front hub and bearing from coming off the car, the 818 manual requires me to reinstall the axle stub.

http://i.imgur.com/HF4sEXi.jpg
But it looked a little bulky so I cut it down to just the sections needed to keep the bearing together. Saving ~745 grams of unsprung weight per corner. ~1.490 kg for both. Nice. Yes. I tared out the copper block.

http://i.imgur.com/CHshmYz.jpg
Final prep of the front hubs before installing on the car.

http://i.imgur.com/R4HnOo1.jpg
Thats how the cut down axle stubs look when installed.

Rasmus

05-15-2014, 09:08 PM

http://i.imgur.com/eA6NSt5.jpg
Seemed so wrong drilling though the bosses on the much coveted aluminum front lower control arms. But that's where the coilovers go. So drill it, I did.

http://i.imgur.com/80uIynE.jpg
Upper A-Arm installed.

http://i.imgur.com/2QyMS2f.jpg
The front suspension's shaping up nicely.

http://i.imgur.com/O2TMrPa.jpg
'Nother angle. Used a M16 bolt in the upper bolt hole of the IFS bracket that converts the OEM strut knuckle to double-A suspension. Manual called for a rear strut blot (M14). But I didn't want to worry about the slop messing with my alignment.

http://i.imgur.com/Wu4gof1.jpg
From the back.

rikgray

05-15-2014, 11:08 PM

Hey nice build.

Question

The front Subaru suspenions is strut. Factory Five added an extension on the strut mount to an upper A arm and ball joint.

It looks like the lower A arm is twice as long as the upper.
This will give lots of camber gain in bump and roll. Probably much more than the original strut design. And probably more than the tire wants.

Also, the upper ball joint is next to the tire now. This limits rim width if you want to maintain low scrub radius.

Why didn't the Factory use a more conventional location for the upper A arm, like in the rear?

Jaime

05-16-2014, 07:57 AM

The rear upper lateral arm is about half the length of the lower too. There's a lot less suspension travel on an 818 compared to a WRX, so even if the camber gain rate is higher, the total gain might not be that much.

STiPWRD

05-16-2014, 08:05 AM

Looking good Rasmus, we're going at about the same pace. No dust shields on the front spindles?

Frank818

05-16-2014, 08:16 AM

Rasmus, I can't see the tools you used to cut the axle stubs, what are they?

MrDude_1

05-16-2014, 08:35 AM

In order to keep the front hub and bearing from coming off the car, the 818 manual requires me to reinstall the axle stub.
But it looked a little bulky so I cut it down to just the sections needed to keep the bearing together. Saving ~745 grams of unsprung weight per corner. ~1.490 kg for both. Nice. Yes. I tared out the copper block.

Thank you!
This is exactly what I planned to do as well. It makes no sense keeping the axle stub as-is with all that extra rotating weight. Its nice to see pictures the confirm my idea before I have the parts in my hand...

MrDude_1

05-16-2014, 08:37 AM

Rasmus, I can't see the tools you used to cut the axle stubs, what are they?

I would bet money he used that angle grinder and a cutoff wheel for the majority of the work...

Rasmus

05-16-2014, 08:55 AM

Rasmus, I can't see the tools you used to cut the axle stubs, what are they?
See you can. I recommend using a 5 inch cut off wheel. The 4 1/2 comes up a hint short when you've used it for a bit.

I would bet money he used that angle grinder and a cutoff wheel for the majority of the work...
Disco.

Rasmus

05-16-2014, 11:11 AM

http://i.imgur.com/TMbQ2nN.jpg
Better view of the spacers I fab'd up for the "R" suspension ride height. I had some 1.25" aluminum tube lying 'round so I used that.

http://i.imgur.com/2gCizeT.jpg
For the lower I ordered 1.75" HDPE (High-density polyethylene) round stock and cut it to height then drilled holes in it. The raw stock is in the lower portion of the photo.

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv101/Subtle-Solutions/Saggy%20Butt%20Spacers/SUBTLE-SaggyButtSpacers001.jpg
HPDE is the same material used to make strut spacers and lift blocks.

Based the measurements on the info Jim Schenck emailed to Plavan:

"Chad,

Sorry for the delay here.
The low ride height is something we designed into the chassis to allow for building a dedicated track car only that you are willing to compromise any street use as well as things like trailer and lift access. The standard donor package still assumes the higher ride height so there is some sourcing of parts needed to do the low ride height.

What you need if you want to run the lower ride height (not recommended for street use) This ride height is also only set up for Sedan control arms.

Move the upper control arm to the top of the chassis and put 4 .815 spacers in the old arm mounting locations to strengthen the new mounting location. Longer bolts will be needed to mount the arms on the top.
Mount the front lower control arms in the upper set of holes on the front mounts.
For the rear bushing mount on the control arm the inner mount bolt should be spaced up by .875 and the outer bolt should be mounted on top of the plate with a .400 spacer as a starting point. The height of the rear mount can be raised if you would like to dial anti-dive into the chassis as a tuning tool.
Running the low ride height requires the use of a bumpsteer kit because the steering rack stays in the same chassis location. We used the Baer kit but drilled out the spindles and replaced the tapered shaft with a longer bolt for more adjustment.

In the rear the low ride height mounts will only work with adjustable control arms. The easiest and intended set-up is to use 13 inch long swaged tubes with 3/4 shank rod ends that have 5/8 holes. We then drilled the rear spindles out just a hair to allow us to use the standard size rod ends and a 5/8 cross bolt.

Hopefully that gets you started in the right direction, there is lots of adjustment that can be done and when you are ready I can also give you our baseline setting to start out from if that helps.

Jim"

If I were to do it again I'd just make all the spacers out of HDPE. It just easier to work with for this application.

Frank818

05-16-2014, 11:21 AM

See you can. I recommend using a 5 inch cut off wheel. The 4 1/2 comes up a hint short when you've used it for a bit.

Oh you just did it with a cut off wheel! That's easy. :)
Too bad those laser cutters don't really exist yet. :) (like light sabers in Star Wars, but less dangerous, say... :))

Xusia

05-17-2014, 11:17 AM

Rasmus, any concerns regarding balance on the cut CVs?

Scargo

05-17-2014, 12:57 PM

Oh you just did it with a cut off wheel! That's easy. :)
Too bad those laser cutters don't really exist yet. :) (like light sabers in Star Wars, but less dangerous, say... :)) The ideal way to cut those would be with water-jet while rotating them. No heat involved/no balance issue. Not Star Wars at all. It's not that hard to find local people with the technology to do 2-D and 3-D cutting.

Rasmus

05-17-2014, 01:50 PM

Rasmus, any concerns regarding balance on the cut CVs?

Yes. Concerns ignored. A ~5 gram-off balance that close to the center of rotation would probably feel the same as a 0.2 gram rock sticking in the tire tread. Unless you're Ayrton Senna, you ain't feeling it. I'm not launching the space shuttle here.

But if you're concerned about it you can always do Scargo's option or visit a machine shop and have 'em chuck it up in the lathe and cut it off.

RM1SepEx

05-17-2014, 04:41 PM

I cut mine off in a lathe, a friend has one that runs on 3 phase power, WWII era, 6 foot between centers, 18 inch swing...

Rasmus

05-21-2014, 05:41 PM

Temps hit the 105* Fahrenheit mark here a few days ago. A harbringer of temps to come. My garage got up to 95* and it disheartened me to work while sweating and dehydrating. Actually got a dehydration headache. Bad times for this desert dweller. Eventually temps will get to the 115*+ mark here making it almost impossible to work in the garage. I can't wrench when sweat pools up on the inside of my safety glasses and my whole body is overheating.

But, we enjoy low humidity. 10-20%. So: evaporative cooler install!

http://i.imgur.com/JXfCqdZ.jpg
Wall hole.

http://i.imgur.com/RaQppNj.jpg
I relocated an electrical outlet, relocated a stud, added a header because the opening on my evaporative cooler is 20" x 20". It won't fit in the 14.5" space between the 16"-on-center studs. It's like hotrodding a car. So many issues just to get one thing done.

http://i.imgur.com/pEWvyZk.jpg
Finished up. Mudded the joints in the new wallboard. Re-texturized and painted the wall.

http://i.imgur.com/QES79YB.jpg
Unit from the outside. It's a Bonaire Durango 5900 CFM unit. Made in Australia. All plastic, so it won't rust out like the metal boxes that are popular here. The pads are 2.5" thick. Sweet, cool, wet air. Humidity in my garage might even get up to 45% ;).

Rasmus

05-21-2014, 05:58 PM

Axle time! Man this job is messy. I've ruined one pair of shorts already.

http://i.imgur.com/MhDObIl.jpg
From Left to right: New axle shafts provided by FFR. Rear axles from my '06 WRX donor. Front axles from my '06 donor. All this to make one pair of axles.

http://i.imgur.com/lPiRoTJ.jpg
It was all going well until I got to this CV joint (Inner Front from donor). It clunked when I twisted it back and forth in my hands. A sure sign it's shot. No obvious scoring, bluish discoloration, or pitting. It just clunks. Gonna need to source another used one.

Santiago

05-21-2014, 06:18 PM

Always a pleasure to see the mad scientist go to town on a project. =)

Enjoy the temp-controlled garage! And the car is coming along nicely.

Best,
-j

Bob_n_Cincy

05-21-2014, 07:42 PM

Ramus
I'm at the same place with the axle. What kind of grease are you going to use?
Some on here are using redline thick wheel bearing grease.
When I took mine apart, a thin (ketchup thickness) black oil/grease ran out.
Bob

Rasmus

05-21-2014, 08:23 PM

Some on here are using redline thick wheel bearing grease.

Red Line Synthetic CV-2 Grease. Same grease I used the pack my bearings and the same I use to grease my suspension bushings. Makes it easier when I just use one grease.

What I want to know is if there's an easy way to get the all of the old grease out of the outer CV joint without taking it apart.

Bill Waters

05-21-2014, 08:25 PM

Hi, Rasmus

It looks as though the section of the stub you cut through is the part of the axle that interfaces with the rear oil seal, right? If so, how much room behind (i.e., toward the piece you cut off) where the seal contact area is do you have to work with?

Thanks

Frank818

05-22-2014, 07:23 AM

What I want to know is if there's an easy way to get the all of the old grease out of the outer CV joint without taking it apart.

I tried a lot and a lot of brake cleaner and spray pressurized water in. It's messy, it worked somehow, but not totally.

STiPWRD

05-22-2014, 07:43 AM

I can't wrench when sweat pools up on the inside of my safety glasses and my whole body is overheating.

Pshhhhh, who needs safety. The AC unit is definitely a nice upgrade though!

Rasmus

05-22-2014, 09:42 AM

Bill. I don't know. I used a 1/16" cut off wheel and have enough for the one inside lip to seal. It's running like the outside shaft seal now with only one seal instead of two.

http://i.imgur.com/dITVghR.jpg
Did a bit of investigative cleaning on the inner CV that's clunking last night. Looks like the spider has 6 nice shiney spots where the bearings wore away the metal. Made the spider legs a touch thinner and now it clunks. The boot on this one probably blew out and the joint was driven on for a while. The boots are really nice though. So I suspect the former owner just told his mechanic to just replace the boots.

http://i.imgur.com/NiEcGC1.jpg
I couldn't get the issues with the bearings to show up in camera. My photo-fu is lacking. Never the less, the inside of one of the bearings had a nice full circumference ring scored into the metal. The other two had nicks on the outside that I could catch my fingernail on. Definitely replace.

http://i.imgur.com/k02Q6lG.jpg
Assembled the good inside CV on the new axle shaft. Filled the cup with ~110 grams of CV-2 grease. I didn't know how much to fill it with so I looked up how much comes in those tubes you get at the Auto Parts Store: 4 oz. Which is about 114 grams. Filled it in, by weight, with my grease gun.

Jaime

05-22-2014, 12:26 PM

What I want to know is if there's an easy way to get the all of the old grease out of the outer CV joint without taking it apart.
I took mine apart to clean the old grease out. It's not all that hard. I also bought new boots from RockAuto, which came with new clips and a pre-measured grease container.

longislandwrx

05-22-2014, 12:50 PM

How is your cup? pretty sure I have an extra set of bearings and a spider. PM me if you are interested.

Rasmus

05-23-2014, 01:27 AM

How is your cup? pretty sure I have an extra set of bearings and a spider. PM me if you are interested.
I'll have to check the cup's condition. Working on sourcing a used axle locally. I'll PM you if my local part falls though. Which it's looking like. Dude offered to sell me a used axle. I PM'd him and he ignored me.

But while I'm waiting to get the axles done:
http://i.imgur.com/8hZzxTr.jpg
Had these car dollies in my shed from working on my my Cadillac. I put a 2x6 across them and now I can roll the chassis around the garage.

http://i.imgur.com/kpgRkT4.jpg
Also had some extra Zerk fitting laying around from my Cadillac build. Installed them in the rear knuckle trailing arm bushing housing. Probably not necessary. Gonna run SuperPro's poly bushings there.

http://i.imgur.com/vq3A5vf.jpg
Left in picture ---> Reassembled the bulk of the rear knuckles (Left in picture). That is: repacked bearings pressed in. All (6) shaft seals installed. Brake backer plates bolted up. Hubs pressed into bearing. Trailing arm bushings installed.
Right in picture ---> Also decided to just blow apart the outer CV bearings and races to clean and repack them. I just couldn't get all the old grease out without disassembling them.

Bill Waters

05-23-2014, 06:03 PM

[QUOTE=Rasmus;154550]Bill. I don't know. I used a 1/16" cut off wheel and have enough for the one inside lip to seal. It's running like the outside shaft seal now with only one seal instead of two.

Thanks

Rasmus

05-27-2014, 12:02 AM

http://i.imgur.com/TOk1sX2.jpg
While I'm waiting for some parts and sourcing others. Got out the steering joint with the two universals and the NVH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise,_vibration,_and_harshness) Rag joint.

http://i.imgur.com/Z4W2w5P.jpg
Cut out the NVH section. Replaced it with 1.0" dia., 0.188" wall, D.O.M., structural tube I used for the Cadillac's custom 4-link rear end. Cut the tube 60 mm long.

http://i.imgur.com/4cg65PQ.jpg
Even welded it back together with the weird ~20 degree offset the two opposing universal joints had originally. I don't know why Subaru welded it together that way but I didn't care to research why and just duplicated it.

http://i.imgur.com/z2SkTVV.jpg
Finished up and painted. Paints still wet in this photo. It's a little too shiny. Kicking myself for not weighing the original before I started. 788 grams final.

Frank818

05-27-2014, 07:20 AM

Nice stuff again.

Rasmus

05-28-2014, 08:55 PM

http://i.imgur.com/3B4HzuJ.jpg
Hung the clutch and brake pedal box...

http://i.imgur.com/JQgjP86.jpg
and installed the brake master cylinder. This took way longer than I anticipated. Two reasons: one the 9/16"-18, 1 inch long, button head, bolts FFR provided to attach the master cylinder to the firewall only allowed 1 thread of engagement so I had to make a trip to McFadden-Dales for two 1.5" bolts at 80 cents each. By removing the brake booster, as recommended, and installing the master cylinder directly to the firewall you have to clearance the clutch/brake pedal assembly for the nuts to fit. All that install/check/uninstall/clearance/repeat takes a while.

Jaime

05-29-2014, 09:35 AM

Michael Everson's master cylinder relocator kit makes this much easier. I have no affiliation with him, but I bought this part and it made the installation really easy. He sells it here: http://www.replicaparts.com/818%20parts%20page.htm

Rasmus

05-30-2014, 01:47 PM

http://i.imgur.com/lDhohy1.jpg
Got an idea in my head to build my own bump-steer correction kit. Apparently, the 818 bumps steers when you install the suspension in "R" ride height.

http://i.imgur.com/BDS1IZW.jpg
After days of thought on the imperial vs metric debate, I decided to go with imperial size rod ends. Two reasons. 1. The majority of the suspension in the rear will run imperial rod ends and bolts. 2. Price. M16 rod ends run about $65 and 5/8" rod ends run $20 for similar ratings. Next you get in the price of Metric Grade 10.9 hardware vs Imperial Grade 8. Anyway, I cut the end off some old OEM steering rod ends. Drilled and tapped them for 5/8"-18.

http://i.imgur.com/432r8fQ.jpg
Notice the spacers. FFR's recommendation to correct the bump-steer is to space the rod end's 2 7/16" down from the steering arm. Or 2 13/16" from bottom of steering arm to center of pivot point. I, intentionally, included a 0.128" washer and cut my main spacer short. Just in case I need to adjust something in the future by running thinner washer, no washer, or more washer.

http://i.imgur.com/rKmdvfP.jpg
Drilling out the steering arms to accept 5/8" bolts. Ridiculousness.

http://i.imgur.com/IAcbA9Q.jpg
The full set of hardware that went into it all. I found some nice rod end boots from Jegs. The stainless steel washers in the boots are 0.047" thick. So my full spacer kit is ---> 0.128" washer ---> 2.263" big spacer with bevel for range of motion ---> 0.047" stainless steel washer with boot.

http://i.imgur.com/oGHYhot.jpg
Installed.

http://i.imgur.com/9BPi1Qq.jpg
Other side.

Brando

05-30-2014, 02:04 PM

Yesterday I also installed my bump steer kit. I was not able to find grade 8 5" 5/8" bolts however. I opted for regular bolts. Those bolts are HUGE and there really isn't that much strain put on the steering rack in contrast to the size of those monsters.
Do you think that grade 8 is critical for those bolts or is it just to be safe?

Rasmus

05-30-2014, 02:16 PM

Do you think that grade 8 is critical for those bolts or is it just to be safe?
I don't know if it's critical. I didn't do an engineering stress analysis. I, personally, use only grade 8 or 10.9 hardware in the suspension and braking systems. Especially anything in single shear, like what I did above. That 5 inch bolt will see stress from steering and also under braking.

Jaime

05-30-2014, 03:26 PM

It's not so much shear as tension from levering the end of the bolt using the spacer-knuckle interface as a lever. Probably 5:1 lever ratio on the bolt, times the approximately 20:1 ratio of pinion radius to steering wheel radius. This means the 50 pound of steering effort on the wheel turns into thousands on the bolt. However, back of the envelope calculations say that the wheel should be ripped out of your hands long before the bolt yields.

Brando

05-30-2014, 04:17 PM

Frank818

05-30-2014, 05:39 PM

Rasmus, you are amazing and will never stop surprising us with your awesomely smart ideas. It's nice you share with us part of your brain!

Jaime

05-30-2014, 05:59 PM

Sorry for the thread jack on this subject. The more I read the more convoluted I feel about this subject. I think i'm sticking with grade 5

which is stronger grade 8 or grade 5 bolts (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/which-is-stronger-grade-8-or-grade-5-bolts.28965/)

Many people state they discourage grade 8 when shear force is concerned due to being more brittle and snapping as opposed to grade 5 which bends.
You can tighten grade 8 bolts more, so the static friction between the surfaces is much higher, keeping shear off the bolt. Also, once a bolt permanently deforms, it's usually only a matter of seconds before it breaks, unless there is a secondary support mechanism. I don't buy the "grade 5s are better" theory. I'd guess that most grade 8 failures are due to improper installation, or on poorly designed joints.

Always make sure to tighten high grade bolts to their recommended torque value.

Rasmus

05-30-2014, 06:28 PM

It's nice you share with us part of your brain!
Thanks for the compliment. I like giving back to the communities that give so much to me. Plus if I do something boneheaded the interwebs will point it out.

Always make sure to tighten high grade bolts to their recommended torque value.
Just looked up the torque spec for 5/8"-18 Grade 8 bolts. 240 ft-lb dry, 180 ft-lb lubed. Yikees Shaggy! My 1/2" drive torque wrench only goes to 150.

D Clary

05-30-2014, 06:33 PM

I would prefer grade 8, but in this case a half inch bolt would be big enough so a 5/8 is kind of overkill.

Jaime

05-30-2014, 07:25 PM

Just looked up the torque spec for 5/8"-18 Grade 8 bolts. 240 ft-lb dry, 180 ft-lb lubed. Yikees Shaggy! My 1/2" drive torque wrench only goes to 150.Them's some big bolts. A common problem with under torqued bolts is that they don't stretch enough and then are prone to vibrating loose. Since you have a lock nut on there, that won't happen to you. Like you, I always use high grade bolts for suspension, and I always use lock nuts or lock washers. You can tell a real hardware geek when they always put washers on upside-right.

Rasmus

05-31-2014, 02:48 PM

You can tell a real hardware geek when they always put washers on upside-right.
Guess I'm not a real hardware geek then. :( What side goes where? The rounded side or the sharp side toward the work?

http://i.imgur.com/UtLgpt0.jpg
Now you'll see why I debated on the Metric vs Imperial Rod End question. At $65 per M16 ($65 x 10) vs $20 per 5/8" ($20 x 10). I set my lateral links at Wagon width. 400mm center-to-center. Sedan links are 410mm c-to-c. Pictured above is my low-tech way of getting all four links to the same length. Having set one link to 400mm c-to-c I clamped down some metal angles to just touch got the rod crowns. Set the other three after that. Easy.

http://i.imgur.com/fX6XFFb.jpg
Thus allowing me to hang the rear suspension and knuckles.

http://i.imgur.com/DlbKn7n.jpg
Right Rear. The sweged rods I used are Allstar brand (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F9XMNLM/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). About $13 per. They're an inconsistent gun-metal color. Some have a slightly more yellow tint, some more green, some more black. I went with 12.5" lengths instead of the FFR recommended 13" because I wanted Wagon width in the rear and I didn't want to screw the rods all the way down, only to come up long trying to get to 400mm. So 12.5". You can see how much thread is exposed.

http://i.imgur.com/7yhkwno.jpg
Left Rear.

http://i.imgur.com/R3o36F7.jpg
Drilled out the knuckle's lateral link suspension points to accept a 5/8"-18, 9.5" grip length bolt. Beefy.

http://i.imgur.com/hVJo1Mw.jpg
The amount of clearance between the coil spring and the rear upper lateral link is worrisome.

If you fellas see I've installed anything incorrectly please let me know. Thanks.

metalmaker12

05-31-2014, 03:46 PM

Lol, looks good!

AZPete

05-31-2014, 04:13 PM

Anything wrong? Those alum panels in your tank bed! :D
Other than that, you do nice work!

Rasmus

05-31-2014, 04:43 PM

Anything wrong? Those alum panels in your tank bed! :D
Great. Now I've got 120 1/8" holes to fill in my frame.

Again.

:cool:

Scargo

05-31-2014, 04:51 PM

Ras... That's some nice work. Obviously a machinist or ex-machinist (like me).
I have to ask why you didn't consider just moving the steering rack up? I will be doing that.

About the bolts: To everyone, Please... I know I am always sounding like your mother, but this is important! Exclamation point.
Racers turn loose of their steering wheels when they are about to have a front-end crash. Why? Because everything in the front suspension, which includes the steering, is built hell-for-stout. They do not want to break their hands or wrists. Likewise, you do not wanting anything breaking on your suspension. It sees huge loads (like when you run over a six~eight inch curb).

You do not want low-grade bolts in anything in your suspension. Just assume I put exclamation points at the end of all my sentences from this point on, OK? In the first place, if you go to Home Despot, or similar, you may be getting inferior, cheap, Chinese bolts. Second place: You do not want common grade bolts in your suspension. You also want to torque everything and use Locktite.

I'm fascinated that Metric is so expensive compared to SAE. I will keep that in mind when I shop for my end links, etc.
Where did you buy yours? I have many bookmarks for places to buy this stuff from, but find that there always seems to be the same item for cheaper, hiding under the next rock. And, then there is the other OEM brand of car parts that fits or interchanges that can be had for cheap, IF you know what you are looking for.
I like: Chromoly tubes with 5/8" ends. (http://www.closeracingsupply.com/html/new_products.html#tubes) Chromoly End links (http://pitstopusa.com/i-5077906-out-pace-drilled-rod-end-5-8-x-5-8-lh-chrome-moly.html). About $60 for a thin-wall adjustable chromoly lateral link.
Aluminum and all that yada-yada. (http://www.portcityracing.com/Aluminum-Swedged-Tubes) Heim ends with load specs. (http://www.pro9.com.au/index.php?PCID=10728) Joe's aluminum hex tube in 3/4 thread. (http://www.joesracing.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=774)
These might be what FFR is supplying. (http://www.jegs.com/i/Coleman+Racing+Products/193/127-115/10002/-1)

Rasmus

05-31-2014, 07:44 PM

Ras... That's some nice work. Obviously a machinist or ex-machinist (like me).
I have to ask why you didn't consider just moving the steering rack up? I will be doing that.

Thanks for the compliment.

I did consider moving the rack. I even created a thread asking just this question: 818R Suspension and the Steering Rack (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12311-818R-Suspension-and-the-Steering-Rack).

Inspired by a question in another thread:

"Running the low ride height requires the use of a bumpsteer kit because the steering rack stays in the same chassis location." Does this mean that the steering rack can't be moved up to stay in plane

Rather then install a 25mm bumpsteer kit to make up for the drop in height, could we not just move the steering rack up 25mm to correct the geometry?

You could do that but the steering geometry will be better if you leave the rack where it is and move the outer tie rod. Getting the long tie rods closer to the plane of the longer lower control arm (longer than the upper) is what you want.

So I didn't do that 'cause Jim Schenck said to not to.

Rasmus

05-31-2014, 07:51 PM

I ordered my rod ends and hardware from McMaster-Carr.

http://www.mcmaster.com/library/20120423/4483t701l.gif
Link to my exact rod end. (http://www.mcmaster.com/#4483t701/=s7m0ge)
Static Radial Load Capacity: 17,955 lbs.

RM1SepEx

05-31-2014, 07:58 PM

I like speedway motors for these rods and links... I've used McMaster too

Frank818

05-31-2014, 08:21 PM

Rasmus, you didn't have any issues when installing the front LCAs' tabs (rearwards big bushings)?

Rasmus

05-31-2014, 10:34 PM

Rasmus, you didn't have any issues when installing the front LCAs' tabs (rearwards big bushings)?

Oh, I did. That was not fun. I eventually just went by the FFR manual and installed the Lower Trailing Link onto the the knuckle first thing, while it was on the bench. Helped to smear a dab of grease on the bushing and tabs then "walked" it on. Next came the Lower Lateral Links. Easy. Then I used a pry bar to open up the tabs so the Lower Trailing Arm's front bushing would slide in there. After that it was easy. After setting a rough alignment, coilovers go on last.

mentatbashar

05-31-2014, 11:14 PM

Guess I'm not a real hardware geek then. :( What side goes where? The rounded side or the sharp side toward the work?

Rounded off side of washers to the part. Sharp edges to the bolt. You don't want the sharp edges "digging into" the material of your part.

Scargo

06-01-2014, 10:55 AM

I like speedway motors for these rods and links... I've used McMaster too
Some sources say they can be had with grease fittings. Does anyone feel this is a plus? How do you lube yours?
Along similar lines, I have looked at 1 inch swaged aluminum tubes (using 5/8" threads) for use in the rear suspension. Are they going to be strong enough for lateral links and trailing arms, etc? I have calculated that I can save over a pound in partially unsprung weight by using these aluminum tube links.

Rasmus

06-01-2014, 07:48 PM

I understand I'm building a kit car. I know there will be issues I have to work though. I've worked through several already. It's not a Toyota and stuffs gonna need a little tweaking to fit. But this:

http://i.imgur.com/53HPTo3.jpg
The throttle pedal. That's how FFR's designed mounting bracket makes the throttle sit. And because it is made of from thin 16ga metal it flexes when you press on it. That is, it twists to the side under any load. It's just a bad design and poorly engineered. Like it was an after thought, "Guess we need to mount the DBW throttle some how. Hey, have the intern design something. Perfect. Where we going for lunch?"

Frank818

06-01-2014, 07:52 PM

You did not receive a pedal box thick metal plate to bolt on the chassis?

Rasmus

06-01-2014, 07:56 PM

You did not receive a pedal box thick metal plate to bolt on the chassis?

I did. The clutch and brake pedal assembly bolts to that. The throttle bracket is separate.

RM1SepEx

06-01-2014, 07:58 PM

The cable setup flexes too... I eliminated it and mounted the pedal right to the firewall

Jaime

06-01-2014, 08:23 PM

The cable setup flexes too... I eliminated it and mounted the pedal right to the firewall
Any details on what you did? The cable pedal mount is one of my backordered parts and something I'd like to get finished.

Bob_n_Cincy

06-01-2014, 08:54 PM

Rasmus
I reshaped the bracket to bring the pedal to the proper angle.
The pedal still has some flex.
Don't forget to put in the pedal stop, like oem.
Bob
See pictures.
2965629657

Pearldrummer7

06-02-2014, 05:39 AM

Hey, have the intern design something.

Hey, their intern Frank did some great work on that car, actually! :lol:

But seriously, that's so poorly designed. Why isn't it mounted to the firewall, anyway? Wouldn't that be the easiest solution?

RM1SepEx

06-02-2014, 06:55 AM

Any details on what you did? The cable pedal mount is one of my backordered parts and something I'd like to get finished.

details are on my thread, just line up the cable hole and drill holes through the aluminum. Take the thin steel mount bracket and toss it. I also found that I didn't have enough cable free play using the supplied bracket. It is quite a bit "stiffer" w/o the bracket. Wayne did his car and the GRM car w/o the bracket

longislandwrx

06-02-2014, 07:07 AM

Wait the rear knuckle Subaru long bolts are M16?

Also what did you use to space the rod ends off the knuckles?

Rasmus

06-02-2014, 08:32 AM

Thanks for the help on the throttle position fellas. Might just put a spacer in there. RM1SepEx, mines DBW but thanks for the thought.

Rasmus

06-02-2014, 09:08 AM

Wait the rear knuckle Subaru long bolts are M16?

Also what did you use to space the rod ends off the knuckles?

No. The rear knuckle Subaru long bolts are M14-1.50 x 240mm. The reason I mentioned M16 rod ends are the 5/8" upper holes FFR designed into the frame's lateral link tabs. 5/8" is 15.875mm which is just about the width of an M16 bolt shank. 15.80-15.85mm. So it's tight with the powercoat on but it could work.

http://i.imgur.com/RaGSWok.jpg
Spaced off the knuckles with this neat part I found on Jegs for $2.59 per pair:

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/500/555/555-64255.jpg
JEGS 555-64255 (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/64255/10002/-1?parentProductId=1299641)
Its comes in 1/2" and 5/8" diameters and widths from 1/4" to 1" (http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS-Performance-Products/JEGS-Tapered-Spacers-for-Rod-Ends-Coil-Over-Shocks/1299641/10002/-1?itemPerPage=90&pno=1). I used two 3/8" width ones for the knuckle side and four of the same for the frame side. Or twelve for the whole system, (i.e. six packages).

C.Plavan

06-02-2014, 10:05 AM

Been there, done that on the throttle. I used a spacer. I then welded a brace up top to stop wobble. I plan on just making a throttle stop so I don't break the pedal off when racing.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11129-Plavan-s-818R-Build-Thread&p=129042&viewfull=1#post129042

MrDude_1

06-02-2014, 10:06 AM

Even welded it back together with the weird ~20 degree offset the two opposing universal joints had originally. I don't know why Subaru welded it together that way but I didn't care to research why and just duplicated it.

They're at an angle so all the needle bearings roll when rotated. If they were straight, they wouldnt move enough and would wear a pit in the shaft, like the bearings did on your bad CV-joint.. You end up with this "clicking" feel in the steering.

wleehendrick

06-02-2014, 10:54 AM

Thanks for the help on the throttle position fellas. Might just put a spacer in there. RM1SepEx, mines DBW but thanks for the thought.

I also have a DBW throttle (06 donor) and wasn't happy with the position. I bent the top flange of the FFR bracket and added a spacer on the bottom bolt, I think I ended up ~1.25". This puts it in a great spot for heel-and-toe operation, but it's still a bit flexy, so I'll probably beef it up at some point. But, being DBW, it's easy to move it around since you don't have to worry about routing a cable!

Rasmus

06-02-2014, 11:03 AM

But, being DBW, it's easy to move it around since you don't have to worry about routing a cable! There's the positive I needed. Thanks man all things considered at least it's DBW and I can "easily" make a bracket to suit.

wleehendrick

06-02-2014, 11:22 AM

Ha! in the grand scheme of building a kit car... yes, this was an easy one :p

Rasmus

06-03-2014, 12:23 AM

http://i.imgur.com/Vtao8Hi.jpg
Made a 22mm spacer out of HDPE. Sits the throttle pedal back just a bit behind the plane of the clutch and brake. Which is how Subaru mounts it.

http://i.imgur.com/6M9lfEz.jpg
Bolted the steering column in. The seat's on 25mm wood blocks so I could have a sit.

Scargo

06-03-2014, 05:05 AM

Great find on the JEGS spacers. :cool: Now, who has all the grade 8 bolts in onesie-twosies?
PS: I'm trying to do as much Metric as I can when cost is not totally prohibitive.

RM1SepEx

06-03-2014, 07:29 AM

McMaster carr

http://www.mcmaster.com/#grade-8-bolts/=s8w25o

longislandwrx

06-03-2014, 09:57 AM

No. The rear knuckle Subaru long bolts are M14-1.50 x 240mm. The reason I mentioned M16 rod ends are the 5/8" upper holes FFR designed into the frame's lateral link tabs. 5/8" is 15.875mm which is just about the width of an M16 bolt shank. 15.80-15.85mm. So it's tight with the powercoat on but it could work.

Exactly... to do all metric, my count says you need 4xM14 2xM12 and 2xM16... I'm trying to come up with a system that will work for both ride heights This is helpful. thanks Rasmus.

Jaime

06-03-2014, 10:37 AM

BTW, my kit came with a pair of M16 bolts and nuts that fit the in the cam bolt holes of the front knuckles. They weren't on the inventory sheet and I can't find any other use for them, so I put them there.

longislandwrx

06-03-2014, 12:29 PM

Lucky, I paid like $20 for m16 flange bolts and flange nuts.

Rasmus

06-04-2014, 02:29 PM

http://i.imgur.com/eNLlgfM.jpg
Steering Column's in. The way FFR had it mounting it tilted off to the left (when sitting in car). That is to write, the plane of the steering wheel was not squared up to the chassis.

http://i.imgur.com/ax2LA86.jpg
So I drilled new holes over about 10-11mm over and the wheel squared up nice.

http://i.imgur.com/D6Ps8G1.jpg
Originally, I wanted to mount the seat right to the floor but it just didn't feel right. Eventually settled on 38mm off the seat areas "X" bars. Back tilted back at 27 degrees.

http://i.imgur.com/RvGkZDk.jpg
Apparently that's too low for FFR even because the bar they welded in for the shoulder harness is still too high for safe mounting. Shoulder harnesses should be mounted so they are at a 0-20 degree drop when the come off your shoulders. 10 degrees is "ideal" and under no condition is it safe to have the shoulder belts go up. So I'll have to weld in new mounts for them.

Then anti-sub strap mounting point is now off center and the lap belts right side mounting point is to close to the seat (no pictures). So lots of grinding and welding coming up.

C.Plavan

06-04-2014, 02:38 PM

http://i.imgur.com/RvGkZDk.jpg
Apparently that's too low for FFR even because the bar they welded in for the shoulder harness is still too high for safe mounting. Shoulder harnesses should be mounted so they are at a 0-20 degree drop when the come off your shoulders. 10 degrees is "ideal" and under no condition is it safe to have the shoulder belts go up. So I'll have to weld in new mounts for them.

Then anti-sub strap mounting point is now off center and the lap belts right side mounting point is to close to the seat (no pictures). So lots of grinding and welding coming up.

I noticed that also. Keep in mind every seat is different (and people's shoulders/torso) and you also have to take into account a HANS device. The best way is to mock it up with the harness/HANS to test.

Even with my seat near the floor, my harness will be fine taking the above into account.

MrDude_1

06-05-2014, 09:33 AM

Originally, I wanted to mount the seat right to the floor but it just didn't feel right. Eventually settled on 38mm off the seat areas "X" bars. Back tilted back at 27 degrees.
Apparently that's too low for FFR even because the bar they welded in for the shoulder harness is still too high for safe mounting. Shoulder harnesses should be mounted so they are at a 0-20 degree drop when the come off your shoulders. 10 degrees is "ideal" and under no condition is it safe to have the shoulder belts go up. So I'll have to weld in new mounts for them.

Remember that the Kirkey seats are only as thick as the metal, with minimal padding and no sliders. The car is setup for a seat with thick frame/spring/foam seat bottoms on top of sliders. You will need to add height thicker than what the sliders/mounts add to the stock seats if you want to be as high.
Ive mounted several Kirkey seats in drag cars, and I always mount the front higher. Its just more comfortable that way.
Its also possible to keep it mounted low, then adjust your sitting height with foam cushion, but then you have to worry about the cover fitting right, and it can feel "squishy" on the track if you add too much.. but its an option you may want to leave open if its going to be driven on the street. Kirkey seats become uncomfortable if you drive around for more than a couple hours... and this is coming from a guy that does multiple 1400 mile days on sportbikes without a second thought to comfort.

Hindsight

06-05-2014, 03:25 PM

Great build thread! I've taken a lot of tips away that I will definitely use on my car.

Since you seem to really know your way around shop tools, I was wondering if you could suggest a good drill press brand? I don't have one now and will definitely need it for this project. I friend of mine has one but the chuck has a lot of play in it so it's worthless.... looking for something nice but not quite professional (from a cost standpoint). Any input would be appreciated!

tmoretta

06-05-2014, 05:04 PM

Rasmus

06-05-2014, 06:18 PM

I was wondering if you could suggest a good drill press brand?
I don't. I acquired my current drill press and shop press from an estate sale. The chuck was messed up by the previous owner and I had to replace it and one of the quill bearings. It's got 12 speeds but I have to manually move the belts to change it. I just keep it on the slowest speed (highest torque). Makes me go slow and I avoid burning up bits. I always drill with lube, usually ATF fluid. But man, do I love having a full size drill press.

Thanks for the suggestion on squaring off the steering column. While doing so I noticed that there is nothing but a rubber grommet stabilizing the column between the upper mounting bolts and the lower u-joints. I am thinking that under hard turning there has to be deflection at the grommet resulting in imprecise steering or play. I may add a mount and clamp around the lower shaft to stabilize. What do you think?
That never occurred to me. Good point. I, personally, am going to leave it as is, but for someone who wants to remove all the slop from the steering system I think you'd have to do this. NVH be damned.

Rasmus

06-05-2014, 08:08 PM

Tackled one of the "boring" jobs. The parking drum brakes. I hate drum brakes. Overly complex. Too many parts. Hard to work on.

http://i.imgur.com/XNl990C.jpg
Here's what I started with out of my donor.

http://i.imgur.com/zgsupEZ.jpg
Reassembled. Excepting the wheel studs, those are all the same parts as the above photo.

Bob_n_Cincy

06-05-2014, 09:04 PM

Thanks for the suggestion on squaring off the steering column. While doing so I noticed that there is nothing but a rubber grommet stabilizing the column between the upper mounting bolts and the lower u-joints. I am thinking that under hard turning there has to be deflection at the grommet resulting in imprecise steering or play. I may add a mount and clamp around the lower shaft to stabilize. What do you think?

There is no pressure on the rubber grommet as the u-joint is totally floating. The only force on the grommet comes from the driver holding on to the steering wheel for dear life.

icky

06-08-2014, 11:36 PM

minus the tone ring...

Hindsight

06-09-2014, 09:23 AM

I don't. I acquired my current drill press and shop press from an estate sale. The chuck was messed up by the previous owner and I had to replace it and one of the quill bearings. It's got 12 speeds but I have to manually move the belts to change it. I just keep it on the slowest speed (highest torque). Makes me go slow and I avoid burning up bits. I never drill with lube. Usually ATF fluid. But man, do I love having a full size drill press.

Thanks for the input. I found a used one over the weeked (17" Rockwell Industrial from 1981) that will probably need new quill bearings and a chuck just like yours did (my friend found the spindle has .007 runout which I have read is too much).

Rasmus

06-09-2014, 09:53 AM

Seeing you quote me I realized I mistyped. Originally I wrote, "I never drill with lube. Usually ATF fluid." Which is not true. I meant to type, "I never drill without lube, usually ATF fluid." I don't know why I typed that and didn't catch it.

I've shattered two 1/8" High Speed Steel bits drilling in the press without lube. Not only did I have to go get a new HSS bit but the work is usually ruined because it's got a hardened steel tool piece stuck in it. Learned my lesson. Lube. Lube is life.

Aero STI

07-17-2014, 03:41 PM

Rasmus, for your rear suspension arms, what specific rod ends did you use from McMaster? Since you said $20 I'm assuming you didn't get the thrust-rated?

Rasmus

08-28-2014, 05:05 PM

Well I just dropped off the radar didn't I?

http://i.imgur.com/TB8RbaA.jpg
Because I wanted to do it right the first time rather than do it twice, I shipped my case halves off to Motion Machine in Virgina. Dale really seems to know his way around a Subaru Case. That's my block getting line bored with everything torqued up.

http://i.imgur.com/8C2dt0K.jpg
Getting the seating position situated is way harder than I thought it would be.

http://i.imgur.com/DCW4vJQ.jpg
After many hours measuring, adjusting, remeasuring, sitting, adjusting.... (over several days) I was finally able to tack in the seat mounting rails. Oh and the fuel tank arrived; I installed it.

Frank818

08-28-2014, 05:16 PM

We just found you! :)

Nice stuff again!

flynntuna

08-28-2014, 08:13 PM

:) good to hear from you again, how's the shoulder?

Rasmus

08-28-2014, 10:16 PM

:) good to hear from you again, how's the shoulder?

It's getting there. I can actually do jumping jacks without pain. Push ups are slightly tender on the one side.

http://i.imgur.com/OpDLALb.jpg
Here's how the drivers seat, sits in the chassis.

http://i.imgur.com/ZO79Zh6.jpg
Placed the passenger about where I want it, centered between the FFR's lap belt mounts. A bit of an asymmetric seating arrangement but it works for the driver.

http://i.imgur.com/5zPmgZn.jpg
With the driver's seat where I want it I can now get the safety harness mounted. Looking to mount the shoulder harnesses here instead of the FFR supplied bar. The angle for the FFR bar was wrong, the harness mounting point would be above my shoulders which is a big no-no from what I've read.

http://i.imgur.com/Y7RJY0M.jpg
They drop down at about a 10° angle from my shoulders to the bar. Which is ideal. If I wore a HANS style device the angle would be steeper. Of course to mount them like this I'd have to modified the rear firewall cutting access holes. But a least it's not custom fabbing up tabs and having to weld those on.

nkw8181

08-29-2014, 08:33 AM

Congrats on figuring out your seats. I just got mine done as well. I will be mounting the shoulder harnessses in the same place only prob have it come out from underneath. All the docs I've found show 0 to 20 deg angles with 20 being towards the floor. Yours looks to be angled up. I may be wrong but just my .02.

http://english.schroth.com/racing/installation_instructions.php

Page 13 from the first download.

RM1SepEx

08-29-2014, 09:21 AM

remember that it depends on the shoulder location for angle, not where is sits when the seat isn't occupied

GUNS

08-29-2014, 09:44 AM

While we're talking about harness mounting, is it ok to bolt the shoulder harness to the frame vs wrapping it? I have a firewall there that I don't want to cut.

Rasmus

08-29-2014, 10:20 AM

remember that it depends on the shoulder location for angle, not where is sits when the seat isn't occupied
Exactly. When I'm sitting there the angle slopes downward from my shoulder to the frames mounting location. When I'm outside the car taking photos it rests limp.

While we're talking about harness mounting, is it ok to bolt the shoulder harness to the frame vs wrapping it? I have a firewall there that I don't want to cut.
Yes though you'd still be 'wrapping' it around the harness rings that you'd bolt to the frame. That was my original plan but there's just not room for it with my setup. Plus it's a lot simpler to wrap around the frame and notch the firewall; than fab up custom tabs, sand the powder coat off, weld the tabs on, then recoat the frame.

D Clary

08-29-2014, 11:12 AM

I found the same problem on my car, If I mounted the seat high enough to use the harness bar, my head was to high for the roll bar. I am going to notch the front firewall and make my rear firewall seal the hole over the fuel tank area. I'll post pics when I figure it out, but you will probably beat me to it.

C.Plavan

08-29-2014, 11:44 AM

It really just depends on the seat harness cutouts. Every seat is different. It seems like those are low compared to my Racetech seat. But I also moved my firewall back and angled the seat. I was able to use the tubular mount with my harness, everything mounted perfect with my HANS.

D Clary

08-29-2014, 12:01 PM

I am only 5'5" so the seat on the floor is very low., The seats that came with it are to large for me. I got the proper size seat and it still needs to be raised a couple inches to even use the cross bar let alone the harness bar. I kind of wanted to be able have the same mount with or without the hans as I don't use it for autoX

Rasmus

09-06-2014, 06:03 PM

I am surprised how long this takes to properly get the safety harness mounted correctly.

http://i.imgur.com/lswUMEg.jpg?1
I made custom tabs to mount the lap belt at about a 60 degree angle. According to what I read the lap belt should be mounted between 45 and 60. The closer to 60 the less chance you'll submarine under the harness in an incident. And because the lap belt sees the most force in an incident I wanted to mount them in double shear. So I made four tabs. Not one of them was the same because of the nature of the chassis bars in those areas. Also fabbed up a mount for the anti-submarine belt. Welded them all in.

http://i.imgur.com/edAcrjE.jpg
Side view of the four tabs I made (driver) and the tabs FFR made (passenger).

C.Plavan

09-06-2014, 06:40 PM

FYI- That is the worst possible place for a Submarine tab. It should be behind your chestline (6point) or even with chestline (5 point).

Just looking out for you and your Family Jewels. :)

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/images/Products/Crow/installation1.gif

5 point belt:
http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/images/image_037.gif

6 point belt:
http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/images/image_038.gif

Rasmus

09-07-2014, 12:32 PM

FYI- That is the worst possible place for a Submarine tab. It should be behind your chestline (6point) or even with chestline (5 point).

Just looking out for you and your Family Jewels. :)

Thanks for the criticism. A second or third eye on my work is always welcome. That's, in fact, half the reason I post. So If I do something wrong it gets pointed out.

I'm installing a Simpson 5-point harness.

http://i.imgur.com/hrsx1mG.jpg
I'm fairly certain...

http://i.imgur.com/kjdIZre.jpg
I installed the submarine strap tab...

http://i.imgur.com/iUdFmtp.jpg
within the recommended parameters.

C.Plavan

09-07-2014, 12:47 PM

Whoa- That is much different with the seat in. I'll refrain from second guessing you :) I shot my mouth off before my brain was loaded.

I'm use to 6 points, and I also moved my seat/firewall back.

Doowop

09-07-2014, 09:18 PM

Rasmus

09-08-2014, 06:25 PM

So, with all this, wouldn't it be easier to weld a 1/4" plate on the whole area under eat and then it would be easier to mount the seat mounts and then also use the eye bolt that are sold.specifically for the seat belts?

You're right it would be much easier. But welding a 21" x 21" x 1/4" plate steel to the seat area would add 31.2 lbs to the build (10.21 lb/ft^2). I guess you could use 3/16" plate instead, it would weigh 23.5 lb (7.66 lb/ft^2).

I eventually hope to have a car so light that I'll have to add ballast to make weight in X-Prepared. But I don't think adding it directly under my fat *** would be the ideal location.

Rasmus

09-09-2014, 10:19 PM

http://i.imgur.com/79epZVT.jpg
Passenger side seat rails fabbed up and welded in.

Rasmus

09-10-2014, 09:57 PM

http://i.imgur.com/B7l5cLl.jpg
Since the FFR supplied shoulder harness bars were too high for my configuration, I cut them out.

http://i.imgur.com/EoVWaA2.jpg
Only took 10 minutes to plasma cut out the bars. But the welds and bar portions that were too close to the roll hoop to trust a free hand plasma cut took me several hours to grind off. Sucks grinding in tight areas.

http://i.imgur.com/29USmpG.jpg
If I include the ground off welds, I estimate I removed about 1.420 kilograms of weight*. And that's 1.4 kg removed from almost the highest place on the car.
*Yes I tared out the glove; the bars just kept rolling off the scale so I put that glove under them.

Frank818

09-11-2014, 11:23 AM

Can't wait to see how light your final product comes at.

Rasmus

09-11-2014, 04:13 PM

Can't wait to see how light your final product comes at.
Thanks Frank. Me too. That expressed, I've really learned to love the journey. All the small steps and small victories of just 'getting there'.

http://i.imgur.com/3TlFH1m.jpg
Here's how I solved my shoulder harness mount/firewall issue. I made four little cuts to the stress-holes I drilled and bent the top 1.75" of the firewall down.

http://i.imgur.com/lsEQAcl.jpg
Mock-up for how it'll mount.

http://i.imgur.com/NhzPBH3.jpg
Mock up from the engine-side

longislandwrx

09-12-2014, 06:17 AM

well that's smart, now you've got some shear strength to keep that firewall in place.

Rasmus

09-12-2014, 10:08 PM

http://i.imgur.com/2iZjzca.jpg
I'll tell you what, drilling upside-down, on your back, while laying in metal shavings is no fun.

http://i.imgur.com/FLfowVL.jpg
But the floor under the seats is now installed. Riveted and silicone'd.

http://i.imgur.com/Yz0Gn16.jpg
From the top.

nkw8181

09-13-2014, 01:10 AM

Looking good!

mikeb75

09-13-2014, 07:43 AM

Your rear firewall mod for the belts is awesome. I'm going to pay you homage when I get to that step :)

D Clary

09-13-2014, 09:40 AM

What kind of paint did you use to touch up the powder coat? After removing the harness bars you kind of need to match better than the seat mounts would need.

Rasmus

09-13-2014, 09:57 AM

What kind of paint did you use to touch up the powder coat?
For a brief moment I considered re-powdercoating it, but that's too expensive. Though a powder gun and powder are cheap, the heat lamps I'd need to spot cure powder on a chassis are expensive. Rattle canned it with

http://www.carid.com/images/vht/automotive-paint/sp670.jpg
VHT Paint Roll Bar & Chassis, Gloss Black.

http://i.imgur.com/umusnf8.jpg
It looks close. Good enough for a race car.

longislandwrx

09-15-2014, 05:52 AM

I don't remember my under seat pan being that big, it's been a while since I looked at it though.

D Clary

09-15-2014, 09:39 AM

I was thinking of putting the floor in last to access under the center tunnel and bolting the seats. My seat mounts are similar to yours but 1x2 as I am a little on the short side.

longislandwrx

09-15-2014, 10:22 AM

Dclary, I clamped drilled and cleco'd that piece then removed and stored it safely out of the way. I was too worried about dropping a hammer on it. It will be one of the last pieces I rivet in.

Rasmus

09-15-2014, 02:36 PM

Dclary, I clamped drilled and cleco'd that piece then removed and stored it safely out of the way.
I did that to the nose floor panel that goes under the battery. Everything's drilled and ready to go; the cross bar in that area is just too good of a jacking point to cover with .040" aluminum and have to worry about bending it.

Rasmus

09-15-2014, 10:53 PM

http://i.imgur.com/hqPtz48.jpg
Drilled all the holes for the "under battery tray cover". Didn't install it; the cross bar in that area is just too good of a jacking point to cover with .040" aluminum. Didn't want to worry about bending the aluminum while I'm piecing the car together.

http://i.imgur.com/8rSkfA6.jpg
Had to trim down the supplied interior side panel FFR shipped. It was designed for the 818s and didn't fit correctly on my 818r. I'm still a little irked that FFR did't even bother to make interior panels specific to the R's chassis bars and just shipped S panels that don't even fit. Drilled, applied silicon, and riveted both panels to the frame.

Rasmus

09-16-2014, 12:24 PM

Well while I was out of touch over the summer the SCCA classified the 818 into E Modified instead of my preferred class of X Prepared. So that's a bummer.

They also moved the Factory Five GTM out of XP and into EM.

longislandwrx

09-16-2014, 03:57 PM

Well that's whack. At least...

33593

Rasmus

09-17-2014, 02:55 PM

Well that's whack. At least...
YEAHHHHHH!

Motor-wise. The case halves returned from Motion Machine. Dale cleaned it up, did a line bore, decked the block back to flat, and opened up my cylinder bores a bit with a hone.

http://i.imgur.com/TB8RbaA.jpg
Here's a picture of it at Motion Machine getting ready for the line bore. He had me send him all my case bolts (OEM) and the head bolts (ARP) I intend to use. He torqued everything up to spec before doing anything.
According to Dale:

I recently line bored a block for another shop and when they checked my work they were alarmed that the main bores were .0003" tight in #1 and #5, while the center 3 were at the size or .0001" too big. Then it's perfect I told them. All kidding aside, this is the effect that even stock diameter ARP studs have on the mainline, which is why I line bore all blocks with torque plates attached. They measured the block without plates. The larger the stud and the bigger the torque, the more the distortion. The distortion in size can be easily measured, what cannot be measured is any mis-alignment, which can also adversely affect bearing wear. Here's a picture of a block in the CNC about to get a final pass with the boring tool.

http://i.imgur.com/qOUYAhf.jpg
Main Line
Dale had to deck down the case mating faces to get the main line bore to bore straight and true with everything torqued down.

http://i.imgur.com/nWmJYVi.jpg
Right half

http://i.imgur.com/1J3oUcU.jpg
Left half

Regarding the deck heights:

As I suspected, the decks on your block were all over the place. It was mostly on the right side though, the driver's side was pretty close to the stock height, which is 7.913" However, all virgin blocks will measure 7.912" at #1 cyl, and about 7.908" on the entire right side when the cases are torqued together. So a virgin block measures 7.908" (minus the .0025" I cut for line boring) which means it should measure about 7.905". Your lowest corner was 7.9015". To get the deck surface to clean I had to go to 7.900", and then of course cut the left side to the same height. I don't know your rod length but I think this number is probably right at zero deck or slightly below, seems like most rod/piston/stroke combinations come up at 7.902". The c.d.on these pistons are 1.129" so calculate the total length. Even if it's a couple thou out the hole, it's no problem, but if it's .005" or more, I say we mill the tops of the pistons to get it back to zero. Nothing is easy with motors that have been messed with!

My rods are 134.5mm center to center. +4mm longer than OEM. I'll be running a 75mm stroke crankshaft. The pistons I sent you should have their wrist pins moved up +2 mm from "normal". Because of the -2mm +4mm -2mm math, the piston's heads should extend just as far as an OEM setup.

Your combination will have the pistons out of the deck half a thou, so I'd say we hit it pretty darn close. I was taking half thou cuts on that low side to just barely get rid of left over gasket impressions. Hone is next, I hope to get it down by Friday. Pistons are all exactly the same diameter and I have your main bearings also. I started a thread on NASIOC with a picture of your block, talking about how the 11mm studs affect the main line. Dale

So rather than run an OEM MLS head gasket that's 0.60 mm (?) thick I'll probably end up running a JE Pro Seal 1.00 mm thick MLS head gasket to make up for the deck height decrease and lower the static compression from 8.96:1 to 8.64:1

The cylinder bores were opened up to 3.9270" (99.746mm). Pistons are 3.9235" (99.657mm) diameter when measured 7mm up from the bottom of the skirt. Giving a piston to wall clearance of .0035". Jeremy from JE Pistons recommended the .0035" PTW clearance for my power goals, and this application, with this piston.

http://i.imgur.com/UhWK0E8.png
Here's a copy of the machine work spec sheet provided to me from Motion Machine.

Pearldrummer7

09-17-2014, 04:37 PM

WOW! Looks awesome. What's the total displacement going to be now with your slightly logner rods?

YEAHHHHHH!

Rasmus

09-17-2014, 05:43 PM

2.33 liters. Building a long rod, destroker. I'm using 'stroker' pistons that have had their wrist pins moved up 2mm so they can run a 83mm throw crank with stock rods. And instead running +4mm rods and a 75mm throw crank.

Rasmus

09-18-2014, 01:13 AM

http://i.imgur.com/2hj0NSh.jpg
I need to get the heads down to a machine shop to resurface them. Plus I need to get all the old parts out of them so I can put some new shiny in. So the valves have to come out. So I made my own valve spring removal tool from a pipe my kid found in the desert.

http://i.imgur.com/ux740EE.jpg
Here's how it looks finished. I intend to chuck it up in the drill press and use the press's mechanical advantage to compress the valve springs. I also made that white topped 'table' to cradle the head. I figure I'll be doing a bit of head work and don't want to mess up the finish. That white top was a cheap HDPE cutting board I bought at a big box store.

http://i.imgur.com/LdNmNYb.jpg
How it looks with the head on my cradle and my valve spring removal tool in position.

http://i.imgur.com/2j9ndxj.jpg (http://imgur.com/2j9ndxj)
Close up.

Rasmus

09-20-2014, 07:10 PM

http://i.imgur.com/sPO9TlV.jpg
The tools I made worked perfect.

http://i.imgur.com/BgnHyfr.jpg
Head are all empty and ready to go to the machine shop for a resurfacing. I finally found a shop here in town that has a PCD (polycrystalline diamond) finish insert for their head resurfacing machine. Motor Mission Machine & Radiator (http://www.motormission.com). Took a while to fine one. Most shops were like, "Oh ya we do aluminum heads. We'll get it nice and smooth. PCD insert? Nah. We've got CBN (cubic boron nitride). Really nice finish. We've never had a problem with the heads we do. So bring 'em on in!".

"Thanks, man. Will do. Bye."

Contacting Jimmy over at Motor Mission

We do have PCD inserts for the cutting head of our machine but we primarily use CBN.
Our machine is adjustable/variable for the spindle speed, traverse speed, and feed rates in order to achieve a desired finish such as your RA of 10.6.
However, we do not rely on the cutting inserts material make or the machines settings to achieve a specific RA.
In order to do that, we check the surface with our Mitutoyo profilometer whenever we are trying to meet a specific finish.
Once the RA is given by the profilometer we will sometimes hand lap the surface of a head/block by hand as the machined finish will sometimes be on the high side, too rough, and sometimes even on the low side, too smooth.
This is why we charge $75 per head whenever we are surfacing for a specific RA number rather than our normal surfacing charge of $47.50 per head.

When I read that Jimmy could hit a specific target Ra but it would cost a bit more:

Perfect.

I'll bring my heads in on Monday next week.

I also contacted Dale again over at Motion Machine concerning the Ra target I should tell them to shoot for. Dale's spec sheet read that he got the blocks deck surface to 10.6 Ra. He said that 12 Ra or better should be the goal I give them.

Also right out of the Factory Service Manual:
Warp Limit: 0.035 mm (0.0014")
Grinding Limit: 0.300 mm (0.0120")
Standard height of cylinder head: 127.5mm (5.02")

Rasmus

09-20-2014, 08:12 PM

http://i.imgur.com/NEaS2Ew.jpg
Measured the rod journal thicknesses. My micrometer states it's accurate to 0.0001". So I zeroed it up on my 2.0000" gauge block, and got to mic'n.

http://i.imgur.com/KFYKP6q.jpg?1
Journal 1 & 2 results

http://i.imgur.com/N6sqRLD.jpg
Journal 3 & 4 results

Journal #2 is the smallest at 2.0470"-2.0471"
Journal #1 is slightly bigger at 2.0470"-2.0471"
Journal #4 is next at 2.0471"-2.0472"
Journal #3 is the fat kid at 2.0472"-2.0473"

The factory service manual states that the limits for a "Standard Size" Rod bearing are 2.0466"—2.0472". So I'm definitely on the upper end of that scale. Which makes sense considered the crank is new and it's been nitrided.

http://i.imgur.com/JKdt4g1.jpg
Pulled out the rods so I could measure the big ends' bore sizes. My bore gauge states it's accurate to 0.00005". I labeled each of the rods so I could tell them apart. I zeroed it out in my micrometer which I set to 2.1500" and got to it.

http://i.imgur.com/B64v1Kh.jpg
Results. This bore gauge is super touchy. I have to hold my breath. Plus, I can see my heart beating when reading the measurements: "Tha'; +0.01500" ;Thump; +0.01505"; Tha'; +0.01500" ;Thump; +0.01505"

Rods B & C tie for narrowest at 2.1650"
Rod A is next at 2.1651"
Rod D is biggest at 2.1651"-2.16515"

So for a starting pair up without bearings
Rod B and C goes with Journal #2 and #1
Rod A goes with Journal #4
Rod D goes with Journal #3

Next I need to order up a standard size set of rod bearings from King and get to matching

Rasmus

09-21-2014, 02:03 PM

http://i.imgur.com/tD4aPKn.jpg
Measured the crankshaft's bend. Service Manual limit is 0.0014". My dial gauge's graduations only measure to 0.001", but there's a bit of space between the the graduations so I can read to about 0.00025". Once I zeroed out the dial I couldn't get the dial to read anything else. So either this crank is bent less than 0.00025" or I don't know how to use a dial gauge. I'm gonna go with the former: dead-straight crankshaft.

longislandwrx

09-23-2014, 09:23 AM

are you going 1/2 over or 1 on the valves?

Rasmus

09-23-2014, 08:31 PM

are you going 1/2 over or 1 on the valves?
Neither. +0. OEM size.

http://i.imgur.com/uxGAYv0.jpg
One thing that irks me about the 818R kit is that I paid an extra grand over the 818S kit and I get interior panels that don't fit. So, here we go making panels to get the foot-rest/coolant pass through tunnels to work.

http://i.imgur.com/Tdot0iH.jpg
Plus I'm waiting for rod bearings and a whetstone (for piston rings) to arrive so I might as well tackle this. Here's the panel I made.

http://i.imgur.com/KYz7Bi4.jpg
Got ribbed for bragging how few cleco's I used on my last panel install, so I when full kit-airplane-tarded. Even missed a hole.

http://i.imgur.com/3Glor4G.jpg
Final install.

http://i.imgur.com/zLsxuIj.jpg
Tunnel side.

longislandwrx

09-24-2014, 06:20 AM

Looks good, I do have a template made for a one piece plate that will cover that whole area, I just have to ask my guy cut it. When I verify fitment I will send it over to all the R boys.

longislandwrx

09-24-2014, 06:29 AM

Plus I need to get all the old parts out of them so I can put some new shiny in.

I thought you meant new valves

I think cosworth measured a 50cfm improvement going to +1 valves w/o porting.

IIRC Micah was for the +1s, however your goals are yours and yours alone.

D Clary

09-24-2014, 09:56 AM

I have been looking at that piece for a couple of weeks thinking about how to finish it. There are a lot of pieces that came in the kit that don't fit the R model and a lot that could have been included.

Rasmus

09-24-2014, 11:39 AM

I thought you meant new valves
Oh, I did. New valves are going in. Just not Subaru's, but Subaru sized. I'm trying to stick by my personal rule not to show pictures of stuff I'm not immediately working on. I've learned to dislike build threads with a long list of parts that never get installed. So I'm trying to be the change I want to see in the world. I'm sure to get to valve lapping here in the new few weeks. :cool:

Rasmus

09-24-2014, 10:04 PM

http://i.imgur.com/Wv9isHa.jpg
Finished the passenger-side footrest/coolant tunnel.

Rasmus

09-26-2014, 06:54 PM

Who likes speed holes and has two thumbs?

THIS GUY!

http://i.imgur.com/a8SDxOD.jpg
After querying the forum about the purpose of the door hinge mounts on my 818R (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15796-Door-hinge-mounts-keep-em-or-lose-em) and getting the answer that they served no purpose.

http://i.imgur.com/ZNuNQyQ.jpg
I removed them.

http://i.imgur.com/C0sNevW.jpg
I had to replate in the missing section but all the new metal I had on hand was too thick for this purpose. I did, however, have some left over metal from my 1968 Cadillac Coupe deVille's rear subframe which was just the perfect thickness. So I cut it up. Ground off the rust and welded it on.

http://i.imgur.com/AachGqx.jpg
Came out nice. Drilled a few holes. (towel for contrast)

http://i.imgur.com/uG2Z6oa.jpg (http://imgur.com/uG2Z6oa)
"Drilled" two large holes on the structure to which the front firewall attaches. Passenger side pictured.

Mass-wise:
Less 1352g - Door hinge mounts and a bit of extra bar
Plus 110g - '68 Cadillac end plates
Less 120g - 18 rice-a-riffic speed holes in body mounting tabs
Less 172g - 2 large holes in front firewall structure
Less ???g - metal lost to cut off wheels, grinding, and plasma cutter
Plus ???g - metal gained from welding filler wire

Altogether removed 1.534 kg of mass.

Plus the 818's a little bit Cadillac now.

Hindsight

09-26-2014, 08:02 PM

Hahaha, I predict your obsession with weight savings is going to become a running joke in other people's threads (all good natured of course). But I guarantee you'll end up with a finished car below 818kgs while the rest of us are always over. I'm trying not to go over 1900lbs on my S.

Rasmus

09-26-2014, 08:13 PM

Hahaha, I predict your obsession with weight savings is going to become a running joke in other people's threads (all good natured of course).

It already has.

http://media.giphy.com/media/3Mm6HZud4m2oU/giphy.gif
It already has. ;)

Harley818

09-26-2014, 11:36 PM

Keep up the weight loss program Rasmus,
I'm not going as high as the bar you set for weight loss, but lower weight is good even for us S guys. I've been dieting as much as I can right along. It all adds up as you are continually pointing out.

Scargo

09-27-2014, 05:38 AM

More! MORE!!
Good job. Keep it up and thanks for documenting it. Will save me a lot of time...
On the issue of weight: What is the perfect balance (weight bias) for a mid-engined car like this? I know it is wrong-headed thinking, but with past front-engined cars it's always been an effort to shift weight to the rear. With the 818 I think that I should be moving some weight to the front. Not lightening the front at all, but moving things like the battery to the front. In my dreams I see all the cooling in the rear, which will dramatically change the weight bias.

BTW, I was at Lime Rock on Thursday and went out in a friend's '04 STi that is race prepared. He just put the last of the bushings in the rear. He had been putting it off since it requires pulling the rear subframe which requires a complete rear suspension/drivetrain dis-assembly. The car was rotating like a Mo-Fo. Way more than mine. We put the rear sway bar to full-soft and it handled great... as great as a Subie can.
Then I went out in a Lotus Evora S. Though not really faster, it was so composed and smooth and faster through some corners that it unnerved me at the beginning.
I can only imagine what the 818 will be like with 8:1 power rather than the lesser power combined with great handling that I just experienced in the Evora or the heavy, poor handling Sti's.

nuisance

09-27-2014, 08:28 AM

OK, no full size windshield for you!

While you're deleting brackets, who knows what this bracket is for?

33969

Rasmus

09-27-2014, 09:02 AM

If I recall correctly the ideal weight distribution should be around 40:60 (front:rear). I know the high end Solo cars are prepped this way. Weight distribution doesn't tell the whole story though. You also want a low moment of inertia (a.k.a the Flywheel Effect or how difficult it is to turn an object of a given mass). That is, most of the weight lumped at the 40:60 point in the 'center' of the car. Any weight you can move from overhanging past the front or rear axles, the better. Get it all between the axles.

The ideal car layout to get this is a Mid-engined, Rear Wheel Drive car. Which is one of the reasons I purchased this kit.

Of course once you get that low moment of inertia with 40:60 weight distribution you end up with a car that's more than happy to rotate. One that'll snap oversteer if you treat it wrong.

I see all the cooling in the rear, which will dramatically change the weight bias.
So stop thinking about putting that large tank, full of water, 22 inches out behind the rear axle and leave it where Jim Schenck and company designed it: 12 inches out in front of the front axles leaning forward so it's mass is even lower to the ground.

Rasmus

09-27-2014, 09:12 AM

While you're deleting brackets, who knows what this bracket is for?
Front Sway Bar Mount. What's it for? CHOPPING!

Frank818

09-27-2014, 08:01 PM

40:60 and low moment of inertia is not all. You need good corner weights too and a hell of a great gearbox with perfect ratios. Now we're talking. :)

Santiago

09-28-2014, 08:32 AM

Front Sway Bar Mount. What's it for? CHOPPING!

Yes, yes, and yes!

My kit arrives soon, and that may well be the very first thing I do. Chop that big ugly thing off! I know FFR is considering bringing it back to their mules and testing with it some more, but I figure if ever I wish to consider a front bar, I'm not going to use the Subie part anyway so a scratch built design would be in the works.

Best,
-j

Hindsight

09-28-2014, 09:54 AM

Front Sway Bar Mount. What's it for? CHOPPING!

So you aren't running the FSB? Do you think the weight savings will overcome the benefit in cornering/weight transfer or do you just not feel this car needs a FSB? To me, it seems important to have a front bar on a mid-engined car to help transfer more weight to the front during cornering.... at least, that is how I understand it to work. IE in front engine, FWD cars, you often run no front bar, and a huge rear bar to help transfer weight to the rear to even out the tire loading and let the rear tires pitch in their fair share of the work.

Rasmus

09-28-2014, 09:57 AM

Yes, yes, and yes!
I know FFR is considering bringing it back to their mules and testing with it some more, but I figure if ever I wish to consider a front bar, I'm not going to use the Subie part anyway so a scratch built design would be in the works.

I saw that same information and hesitated taking a cut off wheel to them. Only reason I could think you want to run a front sway bar would be if you ran a rough track, like Sebring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebring_International_Raceway), where you'd need to run softer springs to maintain contact. Without a bar you'd have to run some hella-flush camber up front, sacrificing breaking.

I would like to read the results of FFR's upcoming testing sessions with and without the bar. Then again I should probably just chop.

Mechie3

09-28-2014, 10:28 AM

There are lots of pieces of the frame that I always thought could have been cored out for decent weight savings. Its all done on a laser so the labor is zero cost, just a little more time to cut.

Santiago

09-28-2014, 11:13 AM

I like to read the results of FFR's testing with the bar. Then again I should probably just chop.

I say chop. But that's just me being rabidly anti-anti-sway bar. =)

What is important to me are the results. Everybody has their own theory about sway bars, most seem deeply confused, but results are a better guide at any rate. The current FFR mules aren't running them. The car is not happy with them on, so what theory are we trying to validate? They're going to test again with the bar on for specific track conditions - this is as it should be. Does the damn thing work or not, if so when and under what conditions? So far it doesn't.

I'm a Mustang guy. When it rains, we disconnect the rear sway bar. Why? You get more grip w/o it. Of course, that's a solid axle car, etc., etc. So is it a direct application of principle? No, but this is what works for us in the real world. We can figure out the correct theory later. Racers have always been this way. Show me the money, talk about it later.

My take: Sway bars are a tuning tool. In the context of the 818, there are a ton of ways to tune the suspension w/o the sway bar. So lose the bar. In theory it creates liabilities while having its advantages, but if those theoretical advantages are just not playing out in the real world, why keep it?

Best,
-j

Santiago

09-28-2014, 11:24 AM

Rounded off side of washers to the part. Sharp edges to the bolt. You don't want the sharp edges "digging into" the material of your part.

I'm catching up with your build thread Rasmus!

I'm pretty sure I've read the opposite (need to find the source). The thinking was that the sharp edge is indeed going to dig into something, so you have to decide what's more important to you. Many (most) bolts are not designed with a perfect 90 deg edge between the bolt shaft and the head of the bolt. There's a small fillet that supports the head. When you dig into that with the sharp edge of the fillet you've effectively scored the head, thus creating a stress riser that can lead to the head shearing off.

Putting the rounded edge side of the washer up will more closely match the fillet between the shaft and the head of the bolt. Your part will get scratched, but under a critical application that's the lesser of two evils. Ummm..."structural integrity over beauty?"

Best,
-j

Rasmus

09-28-2014, 12:07 PM

I say chop. But that's just me being rabidly anti-anti-sway bar. =)
I'm with you there. Once I read and understood that (anti) sway bars remove traction from the the end of the car they're on, I moved into the same camp. The bigger the bar, the less traction that end of the car will have. For most anything I would ever run, I'll never need a front bar.

I've read and go by the philosophy that you make every attempt to maximize front grip. Then tune the rear's grip to the front to suit your driving style. Adding bar up front means I have to run an even bigger bar in the back. My maximum grip would be even less and the car will weigh more.

Hindsight

09-28-2014, 04:45 PM

You are right, I had it backwards!

Rasmus

09-28-2014, 06:20 PM

http://i.imgur.com/3PNBkhF.jpg
Removed the front sway bar mounts. Probably had to grind off an extra 20-30 grams of weld and plate that where still on the frame after cutting. So we'll call it 900 grams removed.

http://i.imgur.com/y1aIyWC.jpg
Blew a hole through the frame with the plasma cutter doing it. Had to weld it up and then grind that down.

http://i.imgur.com/3FeBuQN.jpg
Turned out nice.

nuisance

09-28-2014, 06:54 PM

Looks much better without those brackets!

Independent suspension!

Santiago

09-28-2014, 09:38 PM

Independent indeed!!

:cool:

Scargo

09-30-2014, 09:57 AM

Since your dieting... :p
I was moving my body panels around yesterday and thought, "holy sh*t" these are heavy. I am fairly sure I will be removing a lot of material where it is not required. Under the chassis, where the quarter-panel sides wrap around and under where the door sits. Door panels... reduced to not much more than an exterior skin.
Since it's a race car, why not glass the doors into the quarter-panels and eliminate a lot of the redundant surfaces? At least pare them down to just mounting points for the skin. Perhaps just aluminum mounting points glassed into the back-side or aluminum sandwiched between small patches left on the quarter-panel and door's turn-ins.

Rasmus

09-30-2014, 11:47 AM

Since it's a race car, why not glass the doors into the quarter-panels and eliminate a lot of the redundant surfaces?
Good idea. To bad my rule set states:

17.2.J
Doors may be lightened and may be replaced by ones of alternate
materials. Doors may be pinned, but not bolted, to prevent their
opening in case of an accident. Quick release fasteners (e.g., Dzus
fasteners) are allowed. Standard door hinges and latch mechanisms
may be removed, but the doors shall be capable of being opened or
removed. Interior door panels may be removed or replaced and the
door window slots may be covered. Alternate attachment devices
may be added to hood and deck lid to supplement or replace the
latches. Hood and deck lid hinges may be removed.&

18.1.B
Respecting Section 18.1.F: Aerodynamic Aids, bodywork may be
modified beyond the allowances of Section 17.2; however, the
shape of the body must remain recognizable as that of the ap-
proved make and model. The body must be made of a fire resis-
tant material. Doors, hoods, trunk lids, sunroofs, hatchbacks, etc.
need not function as originally designed. Bumpers, grilles, lights,
glass, and trim may be removed. Side mirrors and tail/stop lights
are not required.
And because it's the SCCA rule set "if it doesn't say you can, you can't". Unless a modification is specifically allowed by the rule set, it is disallowed. So I still have to have doors. Though they don't have to function and can be made from carbon fiber. But it still has to look like a door from the outside.

At least pare them down to just mounting points for the skin. Perhaps just aluminum mounting points glassed into the back-side or aluminum sandwiched between small patches left on the quarter-panel and door's turn-ins.
Good idea and totally allowed by my rule set.

Frank818

09-30-2014, 12:32 PM

Finally you changed your thread's title. :)

Scargo, Rasmus is not dieting, he's anorexing. :)

Rasmus

09-30-2014, 12:42 PM

I didn't know how to change it. I had to PM'd David Hodgkins, requesting him to change it.

Scargo, Rasmus is not dieting, he's anorexing. :)
I'll be so pretty and all the boys will like me when I finally get down to 95 lb. :eek:

Hindsight

09-30-2014, 12:49 PM

If you make 95lbs, you'll be able to wrestle 5th graders and totally dominate!

longislandwrx

09-30-2014, 01:41 PM

please remove battery tray and weigh. :) a lightweight battery should easily bolt direct to frame

Rasmus

09-30-2014, 01:54 PM

please remove battery tray and weigh. :) a lightweight battery should easily bolt direct to frame
Based on the dimensions: 10" x 8.5" x 16gauge the steel battery tray should come in around 667 grams. Maybe 675 with welds.

STiPWRD

09-30-2014, 08:36 PM

I didn't know how to change it. I had to PM'd David Hodgkins, requesting him to change it.

I'll be so pretty and all the boys will like me when I finally get down to 95 lb. :eek:
Rasmus always cracks me up but if there's anyone who can achieve the true 1800 lb vision of the 818, it's him

Santiago

09-30-2014, 10:10 PM

Based on the dimensions: 10" x 8.5" x 16gauge the steel battery tray should come in around 667 grams. Maybe 675 with welds.

Crikey! A 10" x 8.5" tray! What battery are you using? You can cut that FFR one out if you don't have plans for it.

I used a Braille B14115 to crank over my Mustang's 4.6l engine for two years (track duty, not daily-driver duty). Shouldn't need more than that for the Subie mill.
5.8" L x 3.4" W x 5.8" H and only 11.5 lbs. I used a 22gauge tray I made, tracked it, slammed-it-into-a-wall with it, and never had trouble with it. But I did have it on a trickle charger most of the time.

Something to consider.

Best,
-j

Frank818

10-01-2014, 07:07 AM

I used a Braille B14115 to crank over my Mustang's 4.6l engine for two years (track duty, not daily-driver duty). Shouldn't need more than that for the Subie mill.
5.8" L x 3.4" W x 5.8" H and only 11.5 lbs.

Too heavy for Raz. :D I believe on his race car he could go with the B106, at 6.9lbs and 527PCA. Or if money is not a problem, the $1300 micro-lithium at 4.9lbs. :)

I am looking in the middle, at the B129, 9.5lbs and 813PCA. Time will tell for me.

Rasmus

10-01-2014, 12:05 PM

Re: Batteries

I'm not a fan of the Braille brand of batteries. 4 reasons:
1. They market heavily, all those marketing costs are passed down to the consumer;
2. they're rebranded Deka batteries with "Braille" stickers slapped on (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/169366-those-interested-light-weight-braille-deka-battery.html);
3. They overrate their battery specs. They get they're batteries from Deka. Deka sells the same batteries but Deka's specs are way lower (and more believable) than Braille's; and
4. They last about one year.

I've used and had success with Odyssey brand batteries (http://www.odysseybattery.com/extreme_battery_specs.aspx). Specifically the:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/images/batt_specs/icon_pc545p.jpg
PC545 - Pulse Cranking Amps 460 - 5.2 kg - $99 &

http://www.odysseybattery.com/images/batt_specs/icon_pc625p.jpg
PC625 - Pulse Cranking Amps 530 - 6.0 kg - $110

The PC545 can have issues starting the EJ motor on colder days. And by cold, I mean Vegas cold, so ~40 Fahrenheit. The PC625 doesn't seem to have the same issue. With the longer distance to the starter on the 818 vs WRX I imagine the PC545 would struggle even more. Even if I installed the battery in the passenger foot well.

So I'm looking for a battery that's got over 500 PCA. Weighs less than 6.0 kg, and cost less than $200-300.

Rasmus

10-01-2014, 01:45 PM

Think I might have found the battery:

http://shoraipower.com/images/21081-208x157s/lfxcasel1-800x800.jpg
The Shorai (http://shoraipower.com/batteries-c41)LFX18A1-BS12 (http://shoraipower.com/lfx18a1-bs12-p86) or LFX18L1-BS12 (http://shoraipower.com/lfx18l1-bs12-p94). The only difference between the two is the handedness of the terminals.

It's a LiFePO4 battery and they include a "Pb-Eq" rating for all their batteries so you can match theirs to your Pb (lead) battery. The LFX18's are rated at 18Ah PbEq 12V eq. The Odyssey PC625 has a rating of 18 Ah (20 hour) or 17 Ah (10 hour).

Might be the boy I ask to prom when I finally get down to 95 lb and can fit in my Size 00 prom dress.

Price on Amazon: $165
Length 5.83"
Width 2.63"
Height 4.13"
Weight: 1.05 kg. That's not a typo. 1.05 kilograms! 2.3 lb. Damn.

UPDATE: Might not be as good as I thought. See post #460 below.

Scargo

10-01-2014, 04:26 PM

That's crazy! I might get one for my 818. I've been happy with the 11 pound Braille in my STi.

Frank818

10-01-2014, 05:02 PM

I thought you knew about Shorai. I admit that being in the motorbikes world means I know about them. I am unsure how they perform on a car, though, but if the specs are right and knowing your car is not a car, but stripped off car, making it closer to a bike, might be worth it. Don't forget that you will probably need a special lithium-ion charger, adding 85 bucks. I don't think an AGM/Gel charger will work on a lithium battery.

Boog

10-01-2014, 05:09 PM

I've been keeping an eye on the Stark Power 12V-36AH-US5:
http://store.starkpower.com/12V36Ah-US5-StarkPower-ULTRA-START-Lithium-Ion-Starter-Battery-FREE-CHARGER-_p_57.html

They have a large line of smaller/lighter versions as well. I have not looked for any reviews though.

Rasmus

10-01-2014, 05:36 PM

Well looks like the Shorai might not be all it's cracked up to be. Based on actual load tests, it looks like Shora's PbEQ rating is a BS rating and wishful marketing. I hate it when I fall for that.

Video 1 Shorai LFX18 V Deka ETX14, Constant draw stress test (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SflmGhblRY)
Video 2 Actual load tests, Shorai battery fail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySNbSZTgplA)

And Frank818's correct. It looks like to maintain this battery in optimum condition you need Shorai's $85 charger. There are other brand's of LiFePO4 chargers but they're all about $60-$90.

A lot more to owning and running this battery than I thought.

Santiago

10-01-2014, 08:35 PM

Didn't know that Braille's were repackaged Deka's. Good to know, since the Braille replacement I just got is a Deka! =)

Funny, I've heard folks lodge the same complaints against the Odyssey batteries - they're only good for 2 years. Since I got that life out of my old Braille, I figure it's a wash. I think any way you look at it, you need to keep these small/light batteries on a trickle charger. A track buddy of mine also claims the Braille's are 1-year batteries. Then I asked him how frequently he keeps it on a charger. "All winter long while in storage! Then one time during three-to-four months of summer." Ok, YMMV. I was religious with mine.

Too bad about that Shorai...got me all excited. Guess the hunt for "the one" continues.

Best,
-j

Rasmus

10-01-2014, 10:22 PM

Read even more about these LiFePO4 (Lithium iron phosphate) batteries, of which Shorai is one. They are super touchy:

WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER THE FOLLOWING ELECTRICAL ISSUES.
•Damage from direct “shorting” of the battery
•Damage occurring from V-Twin Motors that have a “jack shaft” get stuck and resulting in damaging of the battery
•Using a Battery Tender or similar product on the Battery (do not use trickle chargers)
•Use of Chargers intended for Lead/Acid batteries (do not use any charger for lead/acid batteries)
•Use of Chargers NOT intended specifically for Lifepo4 Lithium Motorsprot Batteries with a maximum charge voltage not over 14.4v
•Overcharging due to a defect with vehicle’s voltage regulator or defective charging system on the vehicle
•Over Charging battery above 14.6v
•Over Discharge of battery below 11v
•Allowing voltage to drop below 11v
•Excessive overcranking or using too small of a battery necessary for the application
•Parasitic drains that discharge the battery to below 11v (please check your electrical system for parasitic drains)
•Use in any non-standard electrical systems such as “total-loss systems, ”24-volt systems”, etc….(Only standard stock systems are warrantied)

Nope. I'm nixing all LiFePO4 batteries from consideration. I'm not looking after a $160+ battery like it's a toddler.

I'm back to the Odyssey PC625.

Rasmus

10-01-2014, 10:41 PM

That stated, the LiFePO4 battery from EarthX

http://earthxmotorsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ETX36E-FRONT-150x150.jpg
Model ETX36E comes with a built in battery management system. 680 Pulse Cranking Amps. 36 (Eq)Ah. I might not trust that. Weighs 1.8 kg. But costs $350. :(

Frank818

10-02-2014, 06:49 AM

Ok costs 350 but how long may it last? If it's 10years, then I'd be down for it. If it's expected for less than 5, not that good.

Well,

Our batteries are an exceptional value given the fact they can last four times longer than a lead-acid battery, up to 8 years.

Mechie3

10-02-2014, 07:56 AM

I bought a Deka ETX14.

MrDude_1

10-02-2014, 08:50 AM

You just need a LiFePO4 battery.. If you're willing to learn a little about them, you can just get a RC hobby battery, and RC charger.. and you're done.. it would be smaller, lighter, MUCH CHEAPER, and work exactly the same.

D Clary

10-02-2014, 09:54 AM

A battery is a great pace to save weight, but the location of the battery is a place where the weight could be beneficial in the balance of the car. It is low and within the wheelbase. I would take the battery money and apply it to an Improved shock package.

longislandwrx

10-02-2014, 10:16 AM

I'll just leave this here.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10167-Lightweight-Batteries&highlight=odyssey

545 baby.

34231

MrDude_1

10-02-2014, 10:39 AM

I'll just leave this here.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10167-Lightweight-Batteries&highlight=odyssey

545 baby.

34231

A group of us bought one of the odyssey batteries.. I forget the model, but it looked like that pic... I used on my camaro to start an LS1 everyday... a couple of the guys swapped to them at the track.. they never had a hard time starting that V8, so i doubt they would have any issues cranking over the tiny 4banger...

Frank818

10-02-2014, 11:38 AM

A group of us bought one of the odyssey batteries.. I forget the model, but it looked like that pic... I used on my camaro to start an LS1 everyday... a couple of the guys swapped to them at the track.. they never had a hard time starting that V8, so i doubt they would have any issues cranking over the tiny 4banger...

Which pic? The PC545 or PC625?

longislandwrx

10-02-2014, 01:21 PM

Rasmus

10-02-2014, 04:27 PM

Those Flukes Though!
Sorry man. I don't follow. I'm not getting the joke or something. :(

I've switched batteries again!

http://static.parastorage.com/media/bacb07_9fa76db343a9c7ea6aae4ac4320fa7cd.jpg_256
The Deka ETX15 or ETX15L (http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0278.pdf) looks awfully good.

??? Pulse Cranking Amps -14Ah - 5.0kg - $73

Lighter and cheaper than the two Odyssey batteries I've used, but more Ah than the PC545 (14Ah vs 12Ah) that gave me intermittent starting issues.

Frank818

10-02-2014, 04:44 PM

Rasmus

10-02-2014, 07:06 PM

So the battery should have a minimum of 14Ah to prevent starting issues on a car without radio, blower and electrical gizmos? (like yours and like mine. My headlights will even be turned off when I'll crank, just like now)
In my experience, I could get the WRX to start with the 12Ah PC545 Odyssey throughout Spring, Summer, and Fall. As it started to dip below 40F or so in the winter it would still start the WRX but it was struggling. But then in the Spring it'd start the WRX, no issue. By the fourth winter it was time to get a new battery. I'd always park at the high side of the parking lot, nose out. I was constantly push starting the WRX, the little woman was none to happy when we had do to that.

With the 17Ah PC625 Odyssey, I can consistently start the WRX in all four seasons for Vegas temps. Once or twice it dips to 20F or so and then the battery will struggle, but still start, the WRX. Going on my third year with this battery.

With the Deka ETX15 being a 14Ah and knowing what I might be getting into. I'm willing to chance it for the weight savings, and price. Plus, I'll put it on one of those smart trickle chargers. So when I get the urge to go to Cars & Coffee in January, in a topless, windshield-less, no heater car, I could do so.

Frank818

10-02-2014, 07:55 PM

Well that is very interesting. Looking at my habits, a 12Ah would be well sufficient. But what's interesting is that you seem to put more weight on the Ah rating than any other, like PCA or CA. I thought Ah was a measure of juice reserve, not necessarily how powerful that juice can be delivered on one crank attempt. Why then Ah seems that important for you?

Rasmus

10-02-2014, 08:34 PM

But what's interesting is that you seem to put more weight on the Ah rating than any other, like PCA or CA. I thought Ah was a measure of juice reserve, not necessarily how powerful that juice can be delivered on one crank attempt. Why then Ah seems that important for you?

Mainly because I can't find a Pulse Cranking Amp rating for any of the Deka batteries. And I don't trust a single datum from Braille's website of lies.

But going by the Cold Cranking Amps

Odyssey PC545 - 150CCA - 460PCA
Odyssey PC625 - 200CCA - 530PCA
Deka ETX15 - 220CCA - ???PCA

So assuming that PCA ratings could be somewhat inferred from the the CCA ratings the Deka ETX15 would seem to be able to start a 8.5:1 compression, 4 cylinder, 4 stroke engine.

Rasmus

10-02-2014, 09:04 PM

http://i.imgur.com/H9bm9M4.jpg
Designed, made and installed...

http://i.imgur.com/20nAPwv.jpg
"anti-intrusion" side panels. I installed them on the outside of the bars, so you could still see the bars from inside the cabin. Otherwise, it'd look like a shiny aluminum box you were riding in.

RM1SepEx

10-02-2014, 09:09 PM

Those AGM batteries can deliver quite a few amps for short periods though the voltage will sag quite a bit. I autocrossed my electric kart with seven 12v, 20 AH AGM batteries and could pull over 400 max amps during a run. I ran this kart for over 80 autocross runs plus testing and still use several of these batteries after 5 years, one in my 4 wheeler.

You should consider a 12V 20AH AGM, they run about 13 lbs and are avail with several post types for around $40-50 ea. The Deka is a std powersonic AGM battery

Here is an example, with the 3 year squaretrade warrantee less than $50.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-20AH-T6-SLA-Battery-replaces-UB12220-51913-12896-ub12180-gp12170-np18-12-/271508236100?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3f3726e744

Check out their store, these same batteries are used for ATVs and motorcycles with different pole types.

Frank818

10-03-2014, 09:09 AM

Crap, that ebay guy does not ship to Canada. :(

longislandwrx

10-03-2014, 11:42 AM

Do you have some extra metal to make new seatbelt block-off pieces? Or are you keeping that slot for your gum wrappers?

Joke was that that battery was weak but that guy's Fluke 289 and 867B were the hotness.

Rasmus

10-03-2014, 12:40 PM

Seatbelt hole?! Phsssha, those are speedholes. :rolleyes:

metros

10-03-2014, 02:07 PM

Looking for some measurements on the harness slots you made on the firewall. I don't have my seats or harnesses yet but would like to set up the firewall so I can have it powdered and finished.

Measurement from edge of firewall to first (driver side) slot and then measurement from edge of firewall (passenger side) to slot. Approximate length of the passenger slot.

I noticed that both slots are different lengths. I'm assuming because the driver side is set up perfectly for you and the passenger side is more general for a variety of passengers.

Rasmus

10-03-2014, 02:28 PM

You might not want my measurements. Recall that I offset the drivers seat from the FFR position to better center it with the steering column shift I did.

But I'll still take some photos for you. :D

Rasmus

10-03-2014, 02:34 PM

I didn't resize these photos. So they're super big. Just right click on any one of them and select "View Image" and you get it full resolution.

http://i.imgur.com/G7C1HeV.jpg
Overall

http://i.imgur.com/RbCCE22.jpg
Passenger side

http://i.imgur.com/0Jpp8vU.jpg
Driver side. I stood about 20 feet back and took all the photos with the telephoto lens. Thus parallax for the measurements should be at a minimum.

metros

10-03-2014, 03:32 PM

I had forgotten about your shifting the driver seat a little bit. Thanks for the heads up and thanks for the pictures!

Rasmus

10-03-2014, 07:07 PM

http://i.imgur.com/fxGlVEj.jpg
Cut out the battery tray. I'm moving whatever battery I finally select to the passenger foot well.

http://i.imgur.com/Tf8et4j.jpg

Based on the dimensions: 10" x 8.5" x 16gauge the steel battery tray should come in around 667 grams. Maybe 675 with welds.
GO MATH! 685 grams of mass removed.

http://i.imgur.com/YgUG1XI.jpg
Also pulled the fans out of the shed. Tested them. Then blew them apart to de-rust a few of the metal parts that have that red-orange hue. I should probably consider painting the exterior of the car rust color.

Frank818

10-03-2014, 09:42 PM

Ditch those plastic (ABS?) fans and get some full carbon fiber fans, they are much lighter (and may not exist yet, but you can fab them :))

MrDude_1

10-06-2014, 09:24 AM

Ditch those plastic (ABS?) fans and get some full carbon fiber fans, they are much lighter (and may not exist yet, but you can fab them :))
I know you're joking, but random off topic pet peeve:
I hate how people take lightweight, cheap plastic parts, and make them "carbon fiber" copies. They are not lighter. The part wasnt redesigned to use less material. its just epoxy plastic with carbon stuck in it.. its not a different magically lighter material.
on the other side of this coin.. i hate when people take would could be a lightweight design, then replace the part with billet aluminum... great. you added weight and did nothing to help.

end rant.

Now that that's off my chest.. I love this build. no bull****. just smart removal of what you dont need.. and modding what you do need to be more reasonable.

Mechie3

10-06-2014, 10:07 AM

i hate when people take would could be a lightweight design, then replace the part with billet aluminum.

I see that all the time. lb per lb aluminum (6061) is weaker than steel. If you make a 1:1 copy you've made it lighter, but it might be made too weak. If you make it to the same strength it can be lighter, but only if geometry allows (ie: truss structure vs stamped steel). Sometimes it doesn't make sense to replace parts.

RM1SepEx

10-06-2014, 11:12 AM

And aluminum breaks while steel bends... Aluminum is only lighter when designed to take advantage of the materials properties.

Rasmus

10-07-2014, 03:53 PM

Had a PM asking about how I selected my turbo.

Thought I paste my response down for public critiquing:

Rasmus,

We are looking at the Borg Warner S200SX line of twin scroll turbos which can be had for <$650. We are still pretty new to the Subaru world, and especially the twin scroll world. Would you be willing to offer us some advice? Being as your goals are similar to ours (autocross), your engine is similar to ours (2.34L destroked), and you've already researched turbos, I can't think of a better person to ask!
...
....
...
We are hoping for fast spool, an efficient flow range around 350whp, and capable of around 400whp before it runs out of air.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

Flattering. Thank you.

I'm not as knowledgeable on this subject as my posts appear to make me. Honestly, I try to talk to knowledgeable people, and read knowledgeable literature. I then post what I learn (or think I've learned) so that I can better understand the subject. For several reasons. 1. Writing about it helps me learn it. 2. If I forget, I can always go back and read what I posted and learn from myself. 3. If I'm wrong, people on the internet are more than willing to point it out. 4. It inflates my ego.

I went about selecting a turbo as follows:

Once you get up to speed in AutoX you never want to shift out of that gear. Do everything you can to stay in the power band in the gear you will be ultimately driving the entire course. For most that's 2nd gear.

Find out the maximum speed I would ever be able to run in a AutoX in my class. Which according to many, including the current National Champ Jeff Kiesel (http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performance/features/rotary-racer-jeff-kiesel.html), is approaching 80mph. It would also help to know average running speeds and minimum running speed for the class.

Select the RPM range you want to run the motor in. For me 3500-9300. But probably more like 3800-8800 for typical courses.

Select a tire diameter, gear (transmission), and final drive to run inside the specific RPM range knowing the speed range. For me, I selected, 23.5 inches, 2nd gear 1.882:1, final drive 4.444:1 (2005-2009 Turbo Outback Transmission). In 2nd gear, that puts my speeds at 29-78 mph for 3500-9300 RPM and 32-74 mph for 3800-8800 RPM.

Now determine how much air your selected motor can pump at a reasonable boost pressure for your selected fuel. 1.5 bar (22 psi)? 2.0 bar (29psi)?

Select a turbo that's well past the Surge Line (spooled up) by your Low RPM limit, while also making sure it's got enough to not exceed the Choke Line at your high RPM limit. I am willing to dial the boost way back (e.g. 0.3 - 0.5 bar) at High RPM to stay under the Choke Line rather than selecting a larger turbo which would move the Surge Line past my Low RPM Limit. I don't want to bog in the slow, single cone, hairpin that some courses use; I'm willing to have little power at 70+mph stretching 2nd gear to the next course element.

Ultimately, I selected the BorgWarner EFR 7163 Turbo 0.80 A/R T4 Twin Scroll (Internal WG). I haven't purchased it. That's just the best one, on paper, that fits my needs that I've found so far.

Here's what the EFR 7163 looks like on BorgWarner's MatchBot with a 2.0 bar limit (http://www.3k-warner.de////aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=2200&baro=13.808&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=71x80&pt1_rpm=3300&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=25.5&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.1&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.2&pt1_ce=63&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=2.29&pt1_pw=20.55&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=29&pt2_ie=99&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.68&pt2_mbp=0.2&pt2_ce=71&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=2.78&pt2_pw=34.46&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5500&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=29&pt3_ie=99&pt3_filres=0.3&pt3_ipd=0.89&pt3_mbp=0.5&pt3_ce=70&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=3.33&pt3_pw=37.8&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=7000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=23.5&pt4_ie=99&pt4_filres=0.4&pt4_ipd=1&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=59.5&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=3.64&pt4_pw=38.69&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=99&pt5_filres=0.3&pt5_ipd=0.93&pt5_mbp=0.5&pt5_ce=58.5&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=3.14&pt5_pw=44.68&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9300&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=9&pt6_ie=99&pt6_filres=0.3&pt6_ipd=0.53&pt6_mbp=0.5&pt6_ce=54&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.29&pt6_pw=51.14&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) (E85). 575 crank horsepower, 515 ft-lb @ 5000 RPM ft-lb.

Here's what the S200SX looks like on BorgWarner's MatchBot with a 2.0 bar limit (http://www.3k-warner.de////aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=2200&baro=13.808&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=76s73&pt1_rpm=3100&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=29&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.1&pt1_ipd=0.24&pt1_mbp=0.2&pt1_ce=66.5&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=1.96&pt1_pw=0.45&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=29&pt2_ie=99&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.51&pt2_mbp=0.2&pt2_ce=71.5&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=2.23&pt2_pw=19.55&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5500&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=29&pt3_ie=99&pt3_filres=0.3&pt3_ipd=0.88&pt3_mbp=0.5&pt3_ce=70&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=2.62&pt3_pw=24.55&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=7000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=22&pt4_ie=99&pt4_filres=0.4&pt4_ipd=1&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=63&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=2.62&pt4_pw=28.62&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=99&pt5_filres=0.3&pt5_ipd=0.97&pt5_mbp=0.5&pt5_ce=60&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.46&pt5_pw=33.17&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9300&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=10&pt6_ie=99&pt6_filres=0.3&pt6_ipd=0.68&pt6_mbp=0.5&pt6_ce=59.5&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.94&pt6_pw=40.9&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) (E85). 555 crank horsepower, 540 ft-lb @ 3100RPM. But a broader RPM range. On paper it seems to spool up (passes the Surge Line) 350 RPM sooner and gasses out (exceeds the Choke Line) 500 RPM later.

That S200SX looks good. Wow. No internal waste gate though. :( So that means I'd have to purchase and run 2 external ones. Plus, custom weld up all the additional plumbing that comes with dual EWGs.

Rasmus

10-07-2014, 07:10 PM

I love this build. no bull****. just smart removal of what you dont need.. and modding what you do need to be more reasonable.
Thanks for the compliment.

Redid the S200SX on BorgWarner's MatchBot with a more reasonable a 1.75 bar limit (http://www.3k-warner.de///aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=2200&baro=13.808&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=76s73&pt1_rpm=3100&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=25&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.1&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.2&pt1_ce=66.5&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=1.82&pt1_pw=0.17&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=25&pt2_ie=99&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.42&pt2_mbp=0.2&pt2_ce=73&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=2.03&pt2_pw=20.55&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5500&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=25&pt3_ie=99&pt3_filres=0.3&pt3_ipd=0.71&pt3_mbp=0.5&pt3_ce=72.5&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=2.34&pt3_pw=26.33&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=7000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=22&pt4_ie=99&pt4_filres=0.4&pt4_ipd=1&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=63&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=2.63&pt4_pw=28.87&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=99&pt5_filres=0.3&pt5_ipd=0.97&pt5_mbp=0.5&pt5_ce=60&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=2.46&pt5_pw=33.17&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9300&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=10&pt6_ie=99&pt6_filres=0.3&pt6_ipd=0.68&pt6_mbp=0.5&pt6_ce=59.5&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=1.94&pt6_pw=40.48&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) Spools a hint faster, but < 100 RPM faster than the 2.0 bar setting. Not surprising. Peak HP's the same at around 555 hp. Peak Torques down to 490 ft-lb @ 3100RPM

EDIT: Also redid the EFR 7163 on BorgWarner's MatchBot with a more reasonable a 1.75 bar limit (http://www.3k-warner.de////aftermarket/matchbot/index.html#version=1.3&displacement=2.334&CID=142.42068&altitude=2200&baro=13.808&aat=85&turboconfig=1&compressor=71x80&pt1_rpm=3200&pt1_ve=95&pt1_boost=25&pt1_ie=99&pt1_filres=0.1&pt1_ipd=0.2&pt1_mbp=0.2&pt1_ce=62&pt1_te=79&pt1_egt=1600&pt1_ter=2.24&pt1_pw=18.44&pt1_bsfc=0.43&pt1_afr=11.2&pt1_wts=300&pt1_wd=83&pt1_wd2=74&pt1_wrsin=69033&pt2_rpm=4500&pt2_ve=95&pt2_boost=25&pt2_ie=99&pt2_filres=0.1&pt2_ipd=0.39&pt2_mbp=0.2&pt2_ce=71.5&pt2_te=78&pt2_egt=1600&pt2_ter=2.48&pt2_pw=35.25&pt2_bsfc=0.45&pt2_afr=11.2&pt2_wts=320&pt2_wd=83&pt2_wd2=74&pt2_wrsin=73635&pt3_rpm=5500&pt3_ve=100&pt3_boost=25&pt3_ie=99&pt3_filres=0.3&pt3_ipd=0.89&pt3_mbp=0.5&pt3_ce=73&pt3_te=72&pt3_egt=1650&pt3_ter=2.92&pt3_pw=40.18&pt3_bsfc=0.48&pt3_afr=11&pt3_wts=340&pt3_wd=83&pt3_wd2=74&pt3_wrsin=78238&pt4_rpm=7000&pt4_ve=100&pt4_boost=23.5&pt4_ie=99&pt4_filres=0.4&pt4_ipd=1&pt4_mbp=0.5&pt4_ce=59.5&pt4_te=71&pt4_egt=1650&pt4_ter=3.64&pt4_pw=38.69&pt4_bsfc=0.5&pt4_afr=11&pt4_wts=368&pt4_wd=83&pt4_wd2=74&pt4_wrsin=84681&pt5_rpm=8500&pt5_ve=95&pt5_boost=17&pt5_ie=99&pt5_filres=0.3&pt5_ipd=0.93&pt5_mbp=0.5&pt5_ce=58.5&pt5_te=70&pt5_egt=1650&pt5_ter=3.14&pt5_pw=44.54&pt5_bsfc=0.52&pt5_afr=11&pt5_wts=400&pt5_wd=83&pt5_wd2=74&pt5_wrsin=92044&pt6_rpm=9300&pt6_ve=95&pt6_boost=9&pt6_ie=99&pt6_filres=0.3&pt6_ipd=0.53&pt6_mbp=0.5&pt6_ce=54&pt6_te=70&pt6_egt=1650&pt6_ter=2.29&pt6_pw=51.14&pt6_bsfc=0.55&pt6_afr=11&pt6_wts=400&pt6_wd=83&pt6_wd2=74&pt6_wrsin=92044&) Spools 100 RPM faster than the 2.0 bar setting. Not surprising. Peak HP's the same at around 575 hp. Peak Torques down to 490 ft-lb @ 3000RPM

Rasmus

10-07-2014, 11:41 PM

http://i.imgur.com/jMULIN2.jpg
Rebuilt the fans and installed them on the radiator. Installed the radiator, but I seem to have bit of an airflow issue. ;) I was able to save 85 grams by shaving off some unused tabs and brackets from the the fan shrouds. Meh.

http://i.imgur.com/OZJmpkg.jpg
Fabbed up my own upper radiator mounting brackets out of aluminum bar stock. I imagine that saved a bit of weight from the FFR solution of cutting up Subaru's steel brackets. Those grommets once isolated NVH for a muffler heat shield on a Subaru.

http://i.imgur.com/wTd8wOx.jpg
Princess Bubblegum (https://www.google.com/search?q=Princess+Bubblegum&client=firefox-a&hs=m1P&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Z700VNOaFcS8iwL2qYCYBQ&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1538&bih=902) came by to inspect the routing of the coolant tube on the passenger side.

http://i.imgur.com/pjPWIhG.jpg
I purchased this radiator because it's reported to have the same water capacity as the Subaru one. Plus it costs about the same. Nabisco also reported it was lighter. But I've realized that most of Nabisco doesn't know how to use a scale and that just wishing something was lighter is the same as it actually being lighter. Koyorad Radiator 3.716 kg w/o cap.

http://i.imgur.com/R15FUYz.jpg
I've weighed the stock one when it was new, and it was 3.426 kg with cap. Gained over 300 grams. :mad: