FFRSpec72 818R Build Seattle WA

[DanielsDM]

Ah, that makes sense. Good to hear your making progress. When do you think you'll be racing?

[FFRSpec72]

Ah, that makes sense. Good to hear your making progress. When do you think you'll be racing?

I will have it out in March and do a few more test and tune days like I did last year and then start racing it if all goes well with suspension and engine

[RetroRacing]

Great to hear!!

[FFRSpec72]

Roll cage fixed, now acceptable to SCCA and ICSCC

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[Scargo]

How? What? Please explain! You removed part of a horizontal crossbar. How does that make it safer?

[FFRSpec72]

How? What? Please explain! You removed part of a horizontal crossbar. How does that make it safer?

No per SCCA and ICSCC the end of the 2x2 needs a cap to prevent the 2x2 from crushing upon a roll over, notice the side bar is welded below the top of the 2x2 thus the reason why they want a end cap.

[Zach34]

Glad to hear that satisfies the rules. I did the same thing after Chad posted about it.

[FFRSpec72]

So finished up the bump steer this weekend, I was able to get .

Driver side .0020 on compression
Driver side .0040 on droop
Passenger side .0010 on compression
Passenger side .0030 on Droop

Alignment was -3 camber, +6 caster and 1/8 toe out (1/16 each side)

[FFRSpec72]

Dash is pretty much finished, will run 3 gauges on dash, gauge 1- oil temp and oil pressure, gauge 2 (center) Air Fuel Ratio, gauge 3- water temp and fuel pressure, there will be a shift light on dash and the tablet will have all the other info (non important stuff like speed, rpm, etc.). Need to put the windscreen back on There are also 2 quick release access panels in to that gets me access to everything form the top of the dash

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[FFRSpec72]

Upgrades and updates done, it wrap time will see how that comes out

[Rotorcraft]

When's the next time you will get some track time?
I would love to see it in action.

Cockpit looks great.

[FFRSpec72]

All the back sides of the panels are sealed, so will start the wrapping this week.

[RetroRacing]

Can't wait to check out your Wrapping skills!

[FFRSpec72]

Can't wait to check out your Wrapping skills!

I have the help of a vinyl person doing most if not all the work as I watch and tell him how to do it! So will see in a week or so (as filling in all the chips/holes/defects now) how that comes out and all the panels fit back together as we will wrap with panels off and panels in a jig when we need to pull on the vinyl.

[RetroRacing]

Good plan.

[FFRSpec72]

Good plan.

uggg, now I know what you all went through !

[Canadian818]

uggg, now I know what you all went through !

Is it not going well? What brand are you using?

[FFRSpec72]

Is it not going well? What brand are you using?

Using ORACAL Series 970RA, not as fast as I wanted.

[C.Plavan]

I have found Avery Supreme Wrap so easy! We now know all wraps are not created equal.

[FFRSpec72]

Wrap complete, took less than 75 feet (roll was 5' x 75'), hopefully will assemble the car this coming weekend and see how it all looks put back together

[Hindsight]

Congrats Tony, I am looking forward to seeing the finished product!

[FFRSpec72]

Here are some pictures of the parts

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[Bob_n_Cincy]

Very nice Tony

[FFRSpec72]

Very nice Tony

Tom Ryon did the work.

[AZPete]

Tony, I didn't realize you changed from a race car to a show car but it is pretty..

[RetroRacing]

Very nice!!

[Canadian818]

That colour looks great! All the extra work to do the CF was worth it, I really like the blacked out tail light section. Did you get the side sails done in one piece?

[Frank818]

Holly cow! Put that on the car right now we need to see this work of art! :) Seriously it looks amazing the CF with matte dark silver. And you too did that color change on the top of doors.D

Did you manage the rear bumper CF in one piece or you had trouble with the recess areas of the lights?

I see you didn't need to trim the top fwd of the door, mines hit on the windshield surround I needed to cut an unwanted U at the top front.

[Mitch Wright]

Looking Good Tony.

[flynntuna]

Let me add to the chorus, wow, picture of the month caliber, maybe even a centerfold :cool:

[Mechie3]

I too like the blacked out rear section.

[Harley818]

Tony, the CF around the rear lights, and around the front bumper looks awesome combined with the grey. I haven't had a lot of time lately, but now I am motivated as I was planning a grey paint similar to your grey. Nice work.

[DanielsDM]

Nicely done!!! Looking forward to seeing it done and on the track.

[FFRSpec72]

Holly cow! Put that on the car right now we need to see this work of art! :) Seriously it looks amazing the CF with matte dark silver. And you too did that color change on the top of doors.D

Did you manage the rear bumper CF in one piece or you had trouble with the recess areas of the lights?

I see you didn't need to trim the top fwd of the door, mines hit on the windshield surround I needed to cut an unwanted U at the top front.

All panels were done in a single piece, all CF was done in a single piece, except the humps as we ran out and had to use scraps, you could most likely do the car with 50 or 60 feet and still have left over, we will measure what we have left on the 75' roll

[Frank818]

I have 65ft so I hope it'll be ok. The new nose will be a different color so that removes 3-4ft.
Sorry about the comment on the door, you have an R so this does not apply to you. :) I remembered that when I went to sleep last night (I think about 818 stuff 90% of my days and nights).

I'm amazed you managed the center of the rear bumper in one piece, that must have stretched a lot on the backup/TS lights but you made it.

[Sgt.Gator]

I want to see it all assembled!

[FFRSpec72]

I want to see it all assembled!

I hope to have it back together Saturday or Sunday so will take some pics

[FFRSpec72]

Here is the updated interior with new dash and new rear firewall.

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[FFRSpec72]

Here is the car all back together after the wrap, still minor stuff to do but all major winter items are complete

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[Bob_n_Cincy]

WOW Tony, This look Great.
Very nice job on the engine cover to make it fit over roll bar and wing mounts.
I really like the carbon on the rear.
I also like your jacking point.

Will your mirror mount be stable?
When is your next day at the track?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Will your mirror mount be stable?
When is your next day at the track?


Front mirror is welded to front roll cage hoop bar, the side mirrors are mounted to side roll cage bars, so as long as the roll cage is intact the mirrors will be. I will be on the track in April as I still have some minor stuff to do and it is still cold and raining here in the NW

[DanielsDM]

Looks Awesome!

[AZPete]

Very nice work! Looks too pretty to race.

[FFRSpec72]

One more picture of the rear

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[Sgt.Gator]

Your car looks great!

[Frank818]

It's so beautiful I've got no comment! I do have comments but what's the point, look at the car, man! :)

[Hindsight]

Tony that looks INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!! Just, wow! The evenness of the sheen on the wrap is flawless from the pics. Did you clean up any gel-goat irregularities (you know, the rough edges, gouges, flashing, left-over release clay and things like that) before you wrapped it?

I was going to leave mine in the white gel-coat but am re-considering a wrap after seeing how amazing yours turned out. An opinion I have about the 818 is that it really needs it's curves and body lines to stand out in order to look right. Certain colors (especially metallics) really bring this out. The orange Wayne used, for example, did this well. But the matte sheen on your wrap accomplishes the same thing.

Excellent work. That thing is going to intimate people at the track!

[Steve Powell]

Looks great Tony. Sorry I wasn't able to make it over for the reassembly on Saturday............too many chores and wife things. I love the look but that thing is going to disappear on a grey race track on a grey NW day. Maybe better run with the head lights on so we can see you coming!

[flynntuna]

Wow it did turn out great. Bet your chomping at the bit to get it on the track.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony that looks INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!! Just, wow! The evenness of the sheen on the wrap is flawless from the pics. Did you clean up any gel-goat irregularities (you know, the rough edges, gouges, flashing, left-over release clay and things like that) before you wrapped it?

I was going to leave mine in the white gel-coat but am re-considering a wrap after seeing how amazing yours turned out. An opinion I have about the 818 is that it really needs it's curves and body lines to stand out in order to look right. Certain colors (especially metallics) really bring this out. The orange Wayne used, for example, did this well. But the matte sheen on your wrap accomplishes the same thing.

Excellent work. That thing is going to intimate people at the track!

It was washed and cleaned before and also big flaws were fixed but minor ones were not, since I used a grey, the inside of the body panels was painted black before the wrap

[FFRSpec72]

I have 65ft so I hope it'll be ok. The new nose will be a different color so that removes 3-4ft.
Sorry about the comment on the door, you have an R so this does not apply to you. :) I remembered that when I went to sleep last night (I think about 818 stuff 90% of my days and nights).

I'm amazed you managed the center of the rear bumper in one piece, that must have stretched a lot on the backup/TS lights but you made it.

I measured last night and I have 25 feet left over from the 75 foot roll and there were 3 attempts on hood so I would say that with 5x50 foot roll you will have plenty and a little left over.

[FFRSpec72]

I removed all the quick latches (I had used 7 on the rear decks) and just went with standard hood pins, but black posts and carbon fiber scuff plates.

[flynntuna]

Did you find that the hood pins easier to use, or was it more a question of the reliability of the quick latches?

[FFRSpec72]

Did you find that the hood pins easier to use, or was it more a question of the reliability of the quick latches?

Easier to use and better reliability, it is very easy to tell when a hood pin is missing and not so easy to see that the latch is not secure, these are not that simple to line up when you are in a hurry.

[RetroRacing]

Do not use quick latches on the engine access panel(s)! We did, not good when fire is involved, the get stuck. Aero latch or sliding hood pins! They ended up just ripping it off our car to get to the fire

[C.Plavan]

Do not use quick latches on the engine access panel(s)! We did, not good when fire is involved, the get stuck. Aero latch or sliding hood pins! They ended up just ripping it off our car to get to the fire

How about just not catching on fire? ;). If it's on fire- I could care less about the fiberglass. You already have big problems, especially if you have the gas tank/cell in the original position.

[longislandwrx]

did you/are you going to spray clear over the cf wrap?

[FFRSpec72]

did you/are you going to spray clear over the cf wrap?

No as I wanted a matte finish for the CF not a glossy one, this goes with the matte grey better I think

[DanielsDM]

How about just not catching on fire? ;). If it's on fire- I could care less about the fiberglass. You already have big problems, especially if you have the gas tank/cell in the original position.

Where is the fuel cell in the NP01?

[Hindsight]

No as I wanted a matte finish for the CF not a glossy one, this goes with the matte grey better I think

I found, at least on the CF wrap I used on my interior trim pieces, that applying ANY top coating over it (I tried a eurethane spray-on clear coat and some clear epoxy laminating resin) causes it to turn solid block with zero CF texture or pattern appearing beneath the clear coat. I was using 3M CF look wrap.

[RetroRacing]

Surprisingly, Fire on the outside of the engine was NOT in the plan, but thank you for the input. :rolleyes:

Everyone is a comedian, I will have my revenge.;)

[FFRSpec72]

Major milestone, I emptied the last box over this past weekend, no more FFR boxes !

64591

[Hindsight]

That is satisfying!

[C.Plavan]

Where is the fuel cell in the NP01?

You access it by taking the seat out on the inside. 2 barriers (3 with bladder) and more distance than the 818 from the motor (more than double). Plus no hot headers inches from fuel cell- that's why I moved mine on the 818R to passenger compartment. Better weight distribution also.

[FFRSpec72]

You access it by taking the seat out on the inside. 2 barriers (3 with bladder) and more distance than the 818 from the motor (more than double). Plus no hot headers inches from fuel cell- that's why I moved mine on the 818R to passenger compartment. Better weight distribution also.

Our experience is that you are not going to change the weight distribution, once corner balanced and a cross balance of 50% the distribution of the 818 will still be 40/60 with the tank anywhere within the roll cage area, as we played with this and no difference. Moving tank up front out of the roll cage area may make a difference, we did not play with that.

[C.Plavan]

Our experience is that you are not going to change the weight distribution, once corner balanced and a cross balance of 50% the distribution of the 818 will still be 40/60 with the tank anywhere within the roll cage area, as we played with this and no difference. Moving tank up front out of the roll cage area may make a difference, we did not play with that.

I should of been more clear. I was talking fuel load offset.

[DanielsDM]

Tony,
Have you gotten the Race Capture Pro setup working with the OBDII to CAN adapter?

[FFRSpec72]

Tony,
Have you gotten the Race Capture Pro setup working with the OBDII to CAN adapter?

Yes I have it going to a 1000NIT JDI screen all is working

[DanielsDM]

Good to hear it's all working. I'm anxious to get mine up and going, kind of need to finish the rest of the car too.
What data are you logging via CAN vs. direct connections to the RCP?

[Mitch Wright]

Tony,
A while back you had ask how high my wing is off the rear deck. Well playing with the car today at lunch I remembered your request. My wing is 9" from the highest point on the rear deck to the bottom of the wing.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

While playing with the car today at lunch .
Rub it in Mitch.
What wing and AoA.
When you need gas, do you drive it over to the museum?
Bob

[Mitch Wright]

Hi Bob, and yes rubbing on it is a nice way to relax during lunch :rolleyes:
I have the APR GTC 300 that FF sells, AoA measured at the cent of the wing is 2* currently.
We have a Mobil station on site with 87, 93, 98, 104 and 110 octane fuels, I had the the engine tuned to run 93.
We going to see you at 10/10ths, MVP or our event next month?

[FFRSpec72]

I am getting ready to head to the track next week and needed to get my wing up higher above the roll cage, so I sent Doug at FORMACARs a cad file of what I wanted and he produced some excellent quality CNC 1/2" T6061 Aluminum wing struts for me. So I am now 6" above the top of the roll cage bar, so 18" off the rear deck as before I was at 11" above rear deck, even with roll cage.

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[RetroRacing]

Now, set your wing to 0-2 degrees and enjoy! The difference now that you are out of the shadow of the cage will be youge!

[Aero STI]

Tony, nice mounts! How did you land on 1/2" thick? Based on the recommendation of my wing builder, I was going to use 3/16" and then add some cross bracing.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony, nice mounts! How did you land on 1/2" thick? Based on the recommendation of my wing builder, I was going to use 3/16" and then add some cross bracing.

I talked to the APR folks and they said that 5/16 would be the minimum they would recommend using on the way I have the wing mounted, so I went with 1/2 to be sure I did not have issues as I have my wing pushed back over the edge of the body now.

[Doug @ Forma]

I am getting ready to head to the track next week and needed to get my wing up higher above the roll cage, so I sent Doug at FORMACARs a cad file of what I wanted and he produced some excellent quality CNC 1/2" T6061 Aluminum wing struts for me. So I am now 6" above the top of the roll cage bar, so 18" off the rear deck as before I was at 11" above rear deck, even with roll cage.

66035 66036 66037

The struts look great on the car, glad to help. Can't wait to hear how they perform!

(Your Subie in the driveway looks a bit jealous.)

[Mitch Wright]

Nice Tony, have fun and looking forward to a report.

[Aero STI]

I talked to the APR folks and they said that 5/16 would be the minimum they would recommend using on the way I have the wing mounted, so I went with 1/2 to be sure I did not have issues as I have my wing pushed back over the edge of the body now.

Interesting. Thanks! I'm going to need to consult with a few of the MEs turned self-proclaimed aerodynamicists at my company.

[Sgt.Gator]

Lookin Good!

Tony I take it this means you'll be at the The Ridge Enduro? How about you Jeff?

[RetroRacing]

Car is going in to the tuner for dyno work and break in. We have tires ready to go, so it's up to what happens this weekend on the new rebuild. We hope yes.

[acmikee]

retroracing is that your car that caught fire in turn8 at the ridge.

[RetroRacing]

If it was blue with a white roll cage and hump, then yes. Please don't tell me another 818 caught fire there, I might do damage to myself.....

[FFRSpec72]

I finished up the data logger and virtual dash this weekend, so almost ready for the track if the rain stays away for more than 2 hrs

66236

[FFRSpec72]

New prototype JDI display/tablet going in, should be bright enough at 1100 NIT

66362

[FFRSpec72]

Track time today, I lost all power, no boost, and smoke out the exhaust, it's a VF30 turbo

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[Speedy G]

Hi Tony, can I ask where you got that JDI display? I can't seem to find a supplier.

Speedy G

[FFRSpec72]

Hi Tony, can I ask where you got that JDI display? I can't seem to find a supplier.

Speedy G

Mine is from work but you can get a Cube T7 AliExpress.com as I friend of mine just go 2 from them

[mikeb75]

Car looks great... turbo doesn't -major shame!

Did you get some good track time in, or did it let go immediately?

[Sgt.Gator]

Oh man the turbo! Sorry to see that.
I assume the bearing went, which means you have metal shavings in your engine oil. You'll need to pull the oil pan off and check for excessive glitter. You know what happens from there.....

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Oh man the turbo! Sorry to see that.
I assume the bearing went, which means you have metal shavings in your engine oil. You'll need to pull the oil pan off and check for excessive glitter. You know what happens from there.....
Gator, would then oil filter prevent the glitter from getting back into the engine?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Oh man the turbo! Sorry to see that.
I assume the bearing went, which means you have metal shavings in your engine oil. You'll need to pull the oil pan off and check for excessive glitter. You know what happens from there.....

I don't know if that is what happened, the water side has all the damage, so not sure what if any went in the oil, I would think there would be some prevention to keep that from happening as I surely hop my engine is not gone.

[Sgt.Gator]

Gator, would then oil filter prevent the glitter from getting back into the engine?
Bob

That is the theory. In practice it often results in a destroyed engine (sometime down the road). The sooner you catch it the better and less likely the engine is hurt. Some guys on their street cars keep driving thru the pre-catastrophic symptoms which results in trashed engine bearings.


I don't know if that is what happened, the water side has all the damage, so not sure what if any went in the oil, I would think there would be some prevention to keep that from happening as I surely hop my engine is not gone.
It's probably fine. But you'll want to pull the pan and check it both for Alum glitter and run a magnet around in it for steel. Then cut the oil filter open and unfold it for a close look. Then decide what the next course is.

There's a Blown Turbo Wiki at the LGT forum that covers all this: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html


The general rule of thumb is if the engine blows you have to re-build the turbo too. If the tubo fails you may have to rebuild the engine.

There's one guy on the LGT forum that does a super job rebuilding turbos, I can PM you his info. I have one of his custom rebuilds on my Spec B.

[FFRSpec72]

So don't know if I should buy new or rebuild as this turbo crap is all new to me and I hate replacing things, now I know why my challenge car runs and runs, come in from a race and do nothing except fuel and tires and back out, none of this turbo crap

[Hindsight]

Sorry Tony, I know the turbo stuff is frustrating. A lot more to deal with and go wrong. There are advantages obviously but I know most road racers prefer NA for reliability/simplicity. I think you've just had some bad luck though..... this isn't the norm. I've run 7 track days now on my setup with no issues (knock on wood) other than a cooling system that is just borderline cutting it.

If I was in your position, I would get a NEW oil hose and a new turbo. Probably a dom 1.5 or a 16g or 18g depending on how much power you want.

Remind me: Is your engine new or used as from the donor? Same question about the turbo.

[FFRSpec72]

Sorry Tony, I know the turbo stuff is frustrating. A lot more to deal with and go wrong. There are advantages obviously but I know most road racers prefer NA for reliability/simplicity. I think you've just had some bad luck though..... this isn't the norm. I've run 7 track days now on my setup with no issues (knock on wood) other than a cooling system that is just borderline cutting it.

If I was in your position, I would get a NEW oil hose and a new turbo. Probably a dom 1.5 or a 16g or 18g depending on how much power you want.

Remind me: Is your engine new or used as from the donor? Same question about the turbo.

Running a JDM EJ207v7 with 31,000 miles, all stock, except the dry sump, the current turbo is a VF30

[Hindsight]

Ok thanks. I agree with Gator's suggestion to pull the oil pan and check for shavings and empty any of them out that you find. That turbine looks thrashed so you might find bits of it in there. It's very easy to pull the pan and replace it. Looks to me like the turbo bearing failed which took the seal out with it. Since the oil drains from the turbo back into the oil pan, the screen on the oil pan pickup and the oil filter should filter out any particles.

There shouldn't be any risk in having the turbo rebuilt, if it even can be. If you are really trying to save money, you can show a rebuilder that pic and ask them if it can be rebuilt and if so, how much it would cost. Otherwise I'd just get a new turbo and new oil hose and you'll probably be good to go. Just ensure the turbo oil drain line is not blocked, the turbo coolant lines are good, and the vac lines to the wastegate are good, tight, secure, and won't melt. You should be good. You should be able to do all that inside a single Sunday (including oil pan inspection).

[FFRSpec72]

Ok thanks. I agree with Gator's suggestion to pull the oil pan and check for shavings and empty any of them out that you find. That turbine looks thrashed so you might find bits of it in there. It's very easy to pull the pan and replace it. Looks to me like the turbo bearing failed which took the seal out with it. Since the oil drains from the turbo back into the oil pan, the screen on the oil pan pickup and the oil filter should filter out any particles.

There shouldn't be any risk in having the turbo rebuilt, if it even can be. If you are really trying to save money, you can show a rebuilder that pic and ask them if it can be rebuilt and if so, how much it would cost. Otherwise I'd just get a new turbo and new oil hose and you'll probably be good to go. Just ensure the turbo oil drain line is not blocked, the turbo coolant lines are good, and the vac lines to the wastegate are good, tight, secure, and won't melt. You should be good. You should be able to do all that inside a single Sunday (including oil pan inspection).

Since I'm running a dry sump I gather I should drain oil then check the dry sump tank and if I find anything I will pull the dry sump pan otherwise I will clean out tank, have the intercooler flushed, put turbo on and fill with oil and ready to go.

[FFRSpec72]

I'm thinking of a VF43 since it has a thrust bearing.

[Hindsight]

That sounds like a good plan Tony. I forgot you had a dry sump. My only concern with the dry sump would be whether or not the filter is before or after the pump. I wouldn't want any metal fragments going through the pump.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[FFRSpec72]

That sounds like a good plan Tony. I forgot you had a dry sump. My only concern with the dry sump would be whether or not the filter is before or after the pump. I wouldn't want any metal fragments going through the pump.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Filter is after the pump, so I will take that off and cut it open also

[Sgt.Gator]

I have a very, very, nice re-built 18G. When Tony's sure he doesn't want it I'll post it up in the classifieds here. Meanwhile he gets first shot at it since we race in the same conference together.

[Rob T]

Hi: I am not sure of the details, but my dry sump returns from the oil pan on two suction lines then a pressure line through the oil coolers and back to the reservoir, which supplies by gravity to the intake of the engine oil pump/filter. So....If Tony's system is similar to mine, is there a chance that there is tramp metal in the dry sump pump that got there when it was scavenged from the oil pan after it left the turbo? I know that I am having my dry sump pump rebuilt after the cam shaft seizure. Price quote was about $200 all in.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi: I am not sure of the details, but my dry sump returns from the oil pan on two suction lines then a pressure line through the oil coolers and back to the reservoir, which supplies by gravity to the intake of the engine oil pump/filter. So....If Tony's system is similar to mine, is there a chance that there is tramp metal in the dry sump pump that got there when it was scavenged from the oil pan after it left the turbo? I know that I am having my dry sump pump rebuilt after the cam shaft seizure. Price quote was about $200 all in.

Rob,
Interesting yours is set up that way. My dry sump is 2 scavenge lines from pan to 2 scavenge pumps, then to the tank. Bottom of tank feeds OEM oil pump. output of oil pump goes through big filter and cooler and then back to engine bearings.

Either way the filter should protect metal magic dust from getting to the engine bearings. IMHO.
Good luck Tony,
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

So the cause of the failure was a broken shaft, the exhaust side of shaft broke, not yet sure why, still looking into that, but the good part was that the compressor side stopped spinning so little went into engine and there was no chunks of fins or other debris from the turbo. as all fins are intact just bent and the VF30 uses thrust bearing so no ball bouncing around in there either.

[Mitch Wright]

Tony, sounds like the damage may be restricted to the Turbo failure, fingers crossed. A suggestion it might be worth flushing the oil lines that feed and the return from the turbo. turbo oil starvation could be a potential cause, just a thought.

[RetroRacing]

There are screens in the pan on the suction lines, so little bits if any will make it to the drysump pump. We lost everything when the rod went, and the engine ran for a 10-154 seconds after. we found nothing in the lines, nothing in the tank, just in the pan.
Personally, I would just get a new turbo, or good rebuilt one that you can drop in and go. Rebuild you old one as a spare if you want, but I would want to go through the housings to check for damage before wasting time on it.
We have had no luck with our car either, yet we soldier on in the hopes of better times to come.

[FFRSpec72]

There are screens in the pan on the suction lines, so little bits if any will make it to the drysump pump. We lost everything when the rod went, and the engine ran for a 10-154 seconds after. we found nothing in the lines, nothing in the tank, just in the pan.
Personally, I would just get a new turbo, or good rebuilt one that you can drop in and go. Rebuild you old one as a spare if you want, but I would want to go through the housings to check for damage before wasting time on it.
We have had no luck with our car either, yet we soldier on in the hopes of better times to come.

I will either buy a new turbo or a quality rebuilt one, the problem is deciding on which one, VF34, VF43, 18G or some other one, as I'm not looking for an aggressive one that requires a ton of boost as I looking for one that can deliver consistent smooth power that won't over tax my stock JDM EJ207v7 engine

[metros]

That's as good as it could be given the circumstances. Glad to hear that it could be less intensive of a rebuild as initially anticipated.

[RetroRacing]

I have a VF28 that you can borrow while you make a decision, It's our spare, but I can bring it with us to Portland this weekend (testing our EP cars on Friday).

[Sgt.Gator]

Every once in a while we debate here on the forum about whether we really have to replace the oil cooler and other things to do if your engine blew and you are rebuilding. Here's the answer from OutFront Motorsports, along with more good info:

"Thank you for purchasing a Short block from Outfront Motorsports, if your engine is equipped with an oil cooler and the short block was replaced because of rod, main or turbo bearing failure, the oil cooler must be replaced, as there may be debris trapped in the cooler that won’t release until it is subjected to both high oil pressure and heat. These coolers cost around $260 new. If a warrantee arises due to bearing failure, we will request a copy of the cooler purchase.

If your engine is equipped with a turbo: a bad/blown turbo can send debris into the crankcase and oiling system. Make sure to clean the turbo drain/feed hoses and nipples before installation.

If the short block was replaced because of piston failure, cracking or melting, the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds and cylinder ports must be cleaned and free of debris. Remove the throttle body from the intake to access and clean the plenum of the intake. We have seen particles that have blown from one side of the engine through the intake and lodge itself in the plenum or opposite side intake runners, only to be consumed by the new engine upon start up.

We recommend an oil pump of at least a #10 found in the upper left corner of the pump when looking at it. Do not use #7 or #9 pumps. The number refers to the millimeter thickness of the gears inside. On high performance engines, oil pressure will generally be lower at idle than stock engines as we have enlarged the bearing clearances for sustained higher engine RPM operation. If your engine is supplied with high performance pistons, oil consumption can possibly be higher than normal due to a larger piston to cylinder wall clearance used, this consumption could be up to 1 quart per 800 miles. As a standard our motors do not see this type of oil consumption but this is the Subaru spec. If your engine was rebuilt with stock style pistons, oil consumption of up to one quart per 1200 miles is considered within spec, per Subaru’s’ warranty policy 8.4.29.

[C.Plavan]

Every once in a while we debate here on the forum about whether we really have to replace the oil cooler and other things to do if your engine blew and you are rebuilding. Here's the answer from OutFront Motorsports, along with more good info:

"Thank you for purchasing a Short block from Outfront Motorsports, if your engine is equipped with an oil cooler and the short block was replaced because of rod, main or turbo bearing failure, the oil cooler must be replaced, as there may be debris trapped in the cooler that won’t release until it is subjected to both high oil pressure and heat. These coolers cost around $260 new. If a warrantee arises due to bearing failure, we will request a copy of the cooler purchase.

If your engine is equipped with a turbo: a bad/blown turbo can send debris into the crankcase and oiling system. Make sure to clean the turbo drain/feed hoses and nipples before installation.

If the short block was replaced because of piston failure, cracking or melting, the intake manifold, exhaust manifolds and cylinder ports must be cleaned and free of debris. Remove the throttle body from the intake to access and clean the plenum of the intake. We have seen particles that have blown from one side of the engine through the intake and lodge itself in the plenum or opposite side intake runners, only to be consumed by the new engine upon start up.

We recommend an oil pump of at least a #10 found in the upper left corner of the pump when looking at it. Do not use #7 or #9 pumps. The number refers to the millimeter thickness of the gears inside. On high performance engines, oil pressure will generally be lower at idle than stock engines as we have enlarged the bearing clearances for sustained higher engine RPM operation. If your engine is supplied with high performance pistons, oil consumption can possibly be higher than normal due to a larger piston to cylinder wall clearance used, this consumption could be up to 1 quart per 800 miles. As a standard our motors do not see this type of oil consumption but this is the Subaru spec. If your engine was rebuilt with stock style pistons, oil consumption of up to one quart per 1200 miles is considered within spec, per Subaru’s’ warranty policy 8.4.29.

I totally agree. For Porsche's, we would send our coolers out to get ultrasonically cleaned by an Airplane Service shop. Our coolers were much more expensive, so just buying a new one for the 818 would probably be cheaper.

[FFRSpec72]

New Bloush turbo on the way an 16G-XT-R as the tuner thought this would be just right for ST2/3 given my weight and tracks I run on. I also went with Perrin E4 Headers and up pipe and most likely keep the stock injectors if the tune comes out not needing more power.

[DanielsDM]

Good to hear it's going back together. I'm interested to see if the Perrin headers hang below the frame. I'm sticking with the stock manifolds for now because when I have asked people who sell them about how far they hang down below the head, the only reply they can give me is "it fits a 200x WRX" (and I have other things to spend money on right now).

[FFRSpec72]

Good to hear it's going back together. I'm interested to see if the Perrin headers hang below the frame. I'm sticking with the stock manifolds for now because when I have asked people who sell them about how far they hang down below the head, the only reply they can give me is "it fits a 200x WRX" (and I have other things to spend money on right now).

So the Perrin E4 tuck up under frame very very nicely, no issues as I can put on the belly pan, they are well designed and cause no interference issues with my setup (dry sump, remote oil filter/cooler). I will post a picture soon.

[Hindsight]

Nice! So now that's two people who have confirmed those headers stay above the frame. Great info.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

So the Perrin E4 tuck up under frame very very nicely, no issues as I can put on the belly pan, they are well designed and cause no interference issues with my setup (dry sump, remote oil filter/cooler). I will post a picture soon.

Tony
How much clearance between the header and the frame in front of the engine?
Thanks
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Tony
How much clearance between the header and the frame in front of the engine?
Thanks
Bob

Bob, I have a good 2" between the further most header tube and the frame, here are a few pictures. The headers are about a 1/4" above the bottom of the 2x2 frame bar which allows the belly pan to go on.

67915 67916 67917 67918

[RetroRacing]

Perfect!!! We ceramic coated and wrapped the header , can't wait to see how that helps under bonnet temps.

[DanielsDM]

Thanks for the info.

[FFRSpec72]

This turbo crap is no fun, have to replace the turbo inlet tube as the old one is dry rotted, it was no fun getting the tube out, not much room and hoses are like hard as rock, not flexing. Now to get a new turbo inlet tube ... more money more money

[tryon]

done yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RetroRacing]

That's exactly why we didn't stay stock. that stuff drives me crazy...

[FFRSpec72]

Too much metal in the dry sump tank oil when I drained it, so out comes engine as I want to keep the block. So don't know if I will get a replacement EJ207v7 and drop it in and rebuild the current one or just rebuild the current one. F*&^ !

[RetroRacing]

We have our block down in Bellingham getting rebuilt. Nice guys, build some crazy stuff. Are you close to Bellingham?

[FFRSpec72]

We have our block down in Bellingham getting rebuilt. Nice guys, build some crazy stuff. Are you close to Bellingham?

I'm about 45-60 min away, as I'm looking for a decent Subaru engine guy that can get me back on the track.

[Hindsight]

Sorry Tony!!

[RetroRacing]

Email johann@nwrallysports.com, pronounced "Yohan" and tell him Jeff at Retro sent you. He's a really good guy, asked for us to send him our complete flywheel-clutch-front pulley with bolt to balance with the rotating assembly. He is building us a stage 3 short-block for us to mount our heads to. http://www.nwrallysports.com/

Cant wait to get it in the car and on the dyno!

[Sgt.Gator]

Too much metal in the dry sump tank oil when I drained it, so out comes engine as I want to keep the block. So don't know if I will get a replacement EJ207v7 and drop it in and rebuild the current one or just rebuild the current one. F*&^ !

Sorry to hear this. Having been thru this four times in four years I feel your pain!

Generally for stock power levels the cheapest and most reliable solution is to buy a new factory shortblock. It should run you around $1,900 shipped. MSRP is $2,191 but most dealerships will do better than that. Heuberger is the largest dealer in the US and ships anywhere. And I can get you a price from my sponsor, but frankly it's about the same as Heuberger charges when you throw in shipping.

Re-building the engine using your current heads and a new shortblock is pretty easy to do yourself. Figure about $5,000 all in for parts if you do the assembly yourself.. That's getting the heads decked and new valves. New oil cooler. New AVCS actuators and AVCS cam gears (or having Outfront rebuild them). Master gasket kit. Replace most if not all the water, oil, and vacuum hoses. New cam buckets. New timing belt. New OEM water pump and oil pump. ARP headstuds is always a good idea at this point. And you need a new or rebuilt turbo, so add that too.

To give you an idea here's the parts list from when I rebuilt my 2008 Spec B EJ257: http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5296153&postcount=97 Not in this list are the new AVCS cam gears that I had to put in later because my original ones were stuck with goo from the blown engine.

From our past discussions I know you want to stick to stock power levels and I think that's a great idea. But if you want to up the power anything over 300WHP you should consider a pro built short block form IAG; Rallispec; or Outfront. I've just put a full race Rallispec in my STI.

[RetroRacing]

We failed in our first rebuild attempt, don't know for sure yet, but I think it was because we didn't check bearing clearances on the mains (which takes 4-5 times torqueing the engine, pulling it apart) to get it just right.

[Sgt.Gator]

Jeff and Tony check out this MR2 Spyder that Tucker Sheppy has built to race against us in ICSCC ST/SPU:

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18766842_1317830184938617_3156167596461655407_o.jp g?oh=ddbeff432dbca7bab330764a19f2f4de&oe=59A3CD38

At this point he's running NA and 175 WHP, about 2200 lbs (including driver). I can't wait to see what kind of times he runs. It might inspire me to get on with building an NA 818R at 2,000 lbs and 175 WHP!

50 more build images at: https://www.facebook.com/DDPerformanceResearch/photos/a.1317829448272024.1073741841.161025363952444/1317830211605281/?type=3&theater

[Scargo]

Too much metal in the dry sump tank oil when I drained it, so out comes engine as I want to keep the block. So don't know if I will get a replacement EJ207v7 and drop it in and rebuild the current one or just rebuild the current one. F*&^ !
Sorry too, to hear about engine problems. A new SB is a quick fix but I wouldn't run the pistons (they are fairly heavy) and you still are working with sloppy factory tolerances. You might luck out and you might not.
I've built a few Subaru racing engines now. I've done a lot of research and have talked to a number of engine builders with good reputations. I work with Kenny at Larry's in Groton, CT. They have an international reputation for machining of and building Subaru race engines. Kenny has a lot of years of experience specifically with Subaru engines and does work for many New England performance shops. I've also worked with Micah McMahan, an engineer for Roush-Yates, who designed the Badger and Honey Badger engines for TIC. I have one of his destroker engines.
I guess I am building up a methodology, or approach to building engines. This, based on everything that has come before and the fact that I have yet to spin a rod bearing nor have had an oil-related failure.
Of most recent note is that I am building an engine for a DD play car and something that could hit the track in a pinch. I was going through several cases I have on hand. I had to decide on a path for the build. One case came to me from the west coast and was a worked-over case and had once been a race engine. This case may have been line-honed at some point. IDK... but I am not going to have to do anything funny with it, like shuffling bearings. It only needs boring while the other, which started life as a 2011 factory SB, could not be used the way it was! It came out of my car after about 65 race hours and looked like it could get by with a hone and new coated pistons. What surprised me was how bad the mains were out! I tried shuffling bearings to no avail. I had read that cases could be warped and mains out of line and that torque plates change readings on cylinders, but I had been skeptical. On a previous build all I had to do was have the crank polished a bit on a few journals to get to the clearances I wanted. On this upcoming 500 CHP build, with this "seasoned case", I will get it line-honed and pinned. All surfaced must be shaved for parallelism and flatness prior to the work on the mains and torque plates will be in place during the honing process.
I guess the short of it is that, for a race engine, I would never trust the main journals to be OK and just slap in bearings. Nor would I shuffle standard and +.001 bearings. The time and energy to verify that all this is perfect and pairing the right pump, etc. is critical to longevity. The second main feeds two rod bearings and if you blow that clearance, or the the next two mains, then you can expect rod bearing problems under extreme conditions.
I was contributing to this thread on NASIOC (https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2797415)recently and thought of you and others who have had bad luck with their 818 engines. Perhaps this thread and others like it could be enlightening. You could start with my first post (https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45161633&postcount=96) and go from there. BTW, Chris Bergeron of KillerB is a pretty sharp guy and is a frequent contributor.

[RetroRacing]

Well, that answers my question before I even open the case. I have an option on a broken in closed deck racing short block, I think we will go that way for our spare.....
Yes, our shop is line honing, he too said it's the only safe option for a race block.

[RetroRacing]

That is a blown diffuser? Wonder what the under tray looks like.

[Scargo]

That is a blown diffuser? Wonder what the under tray looks like.See the Facebook link (https://www.facebook.com/DDPerformanceResearch/photos/a.1317829448272024.1073741841.161025363952444/1317830211605281/?type=3&theater)! The undercarriage is gorgeous. Looks like 3/8" Alumilite for the middle area. I would like to know the exact materials and thicknesses. I need to get around to putting one on my STi. I was going to go with 4 or 5mm.

[Mitch Wright]

I would agree that Chris from KB is a sharp guy and willing to share his ideas and opinions based on experiences KB has had developing EJ parts.

[DanielsDM]

That is a blown diffuser?

Yes, looks like a blown over the top diffuser. High energy exhaust flow increases the flow velocity through the diffuser and under the car, increasing downforce.
F1 cars used them for years, banned in 2012. The scary thing about them is when you lift off the throttle the extra downforce goes away, likely when you need it most.
Interesting article: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/diffuser_blown.html

[Canadian818]

Yes, looks like a blown over the top diffuser. High energy exhaust flow increases the flow velocity through the diffuser and under the car, increasing downforce.
F1 cars used them for years, banned in 2012. The scary thing about them is when you lift off the throttle the extra downforce goes away, likely when you need it most.
Interesting article: http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/diffuser_blown.html


It's neat how F1 engineers used some tricky engine mapping to prevent this from happening, keeping exhaust flow up on throttle lift.

[Scargo]

I think they also mentioned flow through. I think that's what it's called. If you have a racing ECM then you can program it to keep the turbo spooling on lifts/braking and you get those neat big flames and bangs!

[FFRSpec72]

I did the engine swap over the weekend with a friends help, engine went in fine with the headers on, but life would be so much easier if the diagonal 1" bars in the engine bay were either heim joins to removable (bolt in). I have not started the engine yet as I still have to double check everything again to make sure everything is hooked up correctly. All the hoses and coolers were flushed to make sure no metal was in lines, etc.

68939 68940

[Hindsight]

Congrats Tony, fingers crossed.

[Sgt.Gator]

Boy I know that new start on a re-built engine feeling!

I found that pouring an offering of Sake over the engine helps appease the spirits inhabiting Subarus....

https://v1ymqa.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4motrhnsyUjcqBU6430M25hUUHdF_Uj1C06WFek_sZfloR4RE rzgtRLtl6fmqdzHtDUNnmRdO-lAoc5Kz1CbL2PKfCix5z20-5R9FbNQPTj422YWKH1lP-Ju1d61s4TflPk54UNFid6xUORb2a56ESKqz_EbHuGQ00VfOJAt nCGvaA7lvFltStzQoysGAxmGisnUFcgEA4MVOzC1GPYeVDkQ?w idth=660&height=371&cropmode=none

One for you and one for the spirits.

Good Luck Tony!

[RetroRacing]

Good luck!!!

[Harley818]

Hope that pool of brown liquid on the floor was not critical......
I'm not racing my 818, but I have my fingers crossed about the engine.
Too many on here having trouble..... mainly racing applications.
Good luck Tony.

[Sgt.Gator]

Tony I really hope you bring it to Spokane next weekend!

[Scargo]

Your engine... I did not see sandwich plate or provisions for your external oil cooler. You are going back with it, aren't you?

[FFRSpec72]

Your engine... I did not see sandwich plate or provisions for your external oil cooler. You are going back with it, aren't you?

Yes it is there, so sandwich plate to remote oil filter to oil cooler and back, I have left the stock oil cooler/heater on also.

[Sgt.Gator]

Tony are you bringing the 818R to Spokane this weekend? I'll be there racing Friday and Saturday, skipping the races on Sunday.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony are you bringing the 818R to Spokane this weekend? I'll be there racing Friday and Saturday, skipping the races on Sunday.

Unfortunately no, but it will be at the Rose Cup Races in Portland 2 weeks later as I still have a few things to do ...

[FFRSpec72]

Car is back running again, off to the tuner next week


http://vid521.photobucket.com/albums/w337/anthonynadalin/818R/Engine/IMG_1981.mp4

[biknman]

Pic link not working

[tryon]

works fine for me

[Sgt.Gator]

I'm registered for the Rose Cup in RC2 with my STI. Hope you'll make it!

[FFRSpec72]

I'm registered for the Rose Cup in RC2 with my STI. Hope you'll make it!

We are signed up in RC2 I believe also as Tom Ryon put in the entry for the 818R, we will run 1/2 day test and tune on Thursday to see if it will make the race.

[FFRSpec72]

Car back from tuners with a very conservative rich tune ... Heading down to the track for test and tune tomorrow

69863 69864

[DanielsDM]

Good luck Tony.

[Hindsight]

Nice Tony. That's almost exactly the same numbers I make. Have a great time and please post some pics and video!

[RetroRacing]

Good Luck!!! Great numbers!

[FFRSpec72]

We broke the front splitter mount today, too much down force, we are also getting an issue of the rear stepping out when shifting, not sure what this is yet

[Hindsight]

Sorry to hear about the splitter Tony. Where did it break? I supported the entire rear span of my splitter with an aluminum angle bracket. I can post pics if it would help give you some ideas.

RE the rear stepping out, is it when you are lifting or when you are applying power? Remind me again if you have an LSD in your trans?

[FFRSpec72]

Sorry to hear about the splitter Tony. Where did it break? I supported the entire rear span of my splitter with an aluminum angle bracket. I can post pics if it would help give you some ideas.

RE the rear stepping out, is it when you are lifting or when you are applying power? Remind me again if you have an LSD in your trans?

So the rear had toe out, gave it a 1/8 toe in an it's a different car. The oil tem is 210, water temp 185, all seems to be good now, had qualifying today and race tomorrow and Sunday

[Hindsight]

Awesome! I am running a lot more toe-in in the rear than that, and I think Wayne is too, so you might experiment with it. Are you confident you have no bump-out in the rear? That will really cause instability and sketchy handling.

Those temps are very nice!! Good luck this weekend. Video and pics!!!!

[FFRSpec72]

Awesome! I am running a lot more toe-in in the rear than that, and I think Wayne is too, so you might experiment with it. Are you confident you have no bump-out in the rear? That will really cause instability and sketchy handling.

Those temps are very nice!! Good luck this weekend. Video and pics!!!!

Bad day, got flagged for no active transponder and came into hot pits and just as Tom (Tom Ryon was driving as I had my other car there) coming in, brakes failed so good thing Tom went out w/o a transponder on. Fixed brakes and then had a electrical fire on board, so I need to talk to iWire and see what is happening . So car I dead for this weekend

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bad day, got flagged for no active transponder and came into hot pits and just as I was coming in, brakes failed so good thing I went out w/o a transponder on. Fixed brakes and then had a electrical fire on board, so I need to talk to iWire and see what is happening . So car I dead for this weekend
Tony, sorry to hear about your bad day.
Actually a good day, brakes and fire could have ended a lot worse.
Tell us some more details so others won't have the same thing happen.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Ouch sorry Tony. What caused the brake failure? Hope the fire damage was very minor.

[Sgt.Gator]

I had my STI in the same race. The 818R and my STI were running almost identical lap times and we were looking forward to 3 great races (two on Saturday and the Feature Rose Cup Race on Sunday). It was just not to be. Tony mentioned his brake failure which ya'll are right, thank the Lord it happened as his car was coasting into the hot pits to install the transponder. 1 minute sooner and it could have been tragic. Then I did something to my engine which has yet to be determined what actually failed, but it involved enough smoke to put a WWII destroyer trying to screen the US fleet to shame.

Then I'm sitting in the stands watching "our" race when the 818R came in with what looked like a radiator leak or blown coolant hose, but was actually having an electrical fire!

All in all a bad day for the only two Subaru powered cars out of 145 entrants. I took a little solace in knowing I had the only 4 door car and the one of three 4 cylinder cars in the actual Rose Cup race. By Saturday afternoon there was only one 4 cyl car left to race on Sunday.

[Hindsight]

Ouch, sorry to hear you had issues too :(

[FFRSpec72]

So a recap

1. We were running a 265hp tune on engine, temps were 210-215 oil and 180-190 water temps so all good there, I will have to download data to get IAT and other values.
2. Had issues with stability, we had to adjust rear toe to get the car from jumping around under shifting/braking
3. Front splitter had to have center support to keep it from being sucked to ground
4. So the brake issue was that the brake clevis backed out of the U shaped bracket and thus fell out, this could have been very serious.
5. Electrical issue, this was a wire harness issue, seems the hot wire from alternator to ing switch/kill switch and hot wire to second kill switch were all burned. Before I say more I need to talk to iWire and find out some more things, this could have also been much worse

[RetroRacing]

WOW, you are a lucky guy! both issues could have been much worse, hope you had at least some time on track to sort through things. keep us informed.

[FFRSpec72]

WOW, you are a lucky guy! both issues could have been much worse, hope you had at least some time on track to sort through things. keep us informed.

yes we got enough time in to say the car with the 265 hp tune will be in low 1:20s at PIR, we have to play with tire pressure as we are running 28 in rear and 26 in front and may take those up a pound or 2 as we were getting front end hop in turn 4/5 and Tom made the mistake of taking pressure out because of track was slippery,

we were running a max of 16psi on the boost and rev limiter is set to 8K

[RetroRacing]

That is excellent! What were the hot pressures on the tires? a hop sounds more like shock adjustment to me than pressure. Can't wait to get ours out there now!

[iWire]

Yeah, very lucky glad it wasn't any worse. We haven't seen anything like this happen in our nearly 100 builds thus far, but this was build #1 so we will investigate and take care of Anthony in whatever way that needs to happen. First thoughts are the alternator internally shorted or grounding issue but we'll sort it out.

-Brian

[FFRSpec72]

Yeah, very lucky glad it wasn't any worse. We haven't seen anything like this happen in our nearly 100 builds thus far, but this was build #1 so we will investigate and take care of Anthony in whatever way that needs to happen. First thoughts are an alternator or grounding issue but we'll sort it out.

-Brian

I have full faith in you Brian as you are a great vendor, and do excellent work, we just want to understand why this happened and why the inline fuse did not prevent this.

[FFRSpec72]

That is excellent! What were the hot pressures on the tires? a hop sounds more like shock adjustment to me than pressure. Can't wait to get ours out there now!

We raised the ride height about a 1/4" and raised the tire pressures to 26/28 (we were at 24 and 26) and that stopped the hop, but then Tome let out pressure and the hop was back in the 4/5 turn sweeper

[iWire]

I have full faith in you Brian as you are a great vendor, and do excellent work, we just want to understand why this happened and why the inline fuse did not prevent this.

Thanks Anthony! We'll get to the bottom of it.

[RetroRacing]

Are you talking about the right hander at the end of the front straight (when running no chicane)? I've had that happen there, and it was do to too much grip, compressing the springs to the point that the shocks can't handle the rebound, so it bounces to the outside. Reducing grip, and skating through the corner works, but the tire overheats and you get allot of degradation. Increasing front rebound, or effective rear spring rate to get it to rotate, or raise front ride height if you think you may be bottoming out the bump stops (cool trick, put a plastic wire tie on the shock shaft at the top of the shock body. Do a session, then check how far the wire tie got pushed up the shaft. It should be at least an inch from the bump stop).

[FFRSpec72]

Are you talking about the right hander at the end of the front straight (when running no chicane)? I've had that happen there, and it was do to too much grip, compressing the springs to the point that the shocks can't handle the rebound, so it bounces to the outside. Reducing grip, and skating through the corner works, but the tire overheats and you get allot of degradation. Increasing front rebound, or effective rear spring rate to get it to rotate, or raise front ride height if you think you may be bottoming out the bump stops (cool trick, put a plastic wire tie on the shock shaft at the top of the shock body. Do a session, then check how far the wire tie got pushed up the shaft. It should be at least an inch from the bump stop).


We did not have time to get hot temps because of all the issues we had.

[FFRSpec72]

Thanks Anthony! We'll get to the bottom of it.

Brian, thanks for jumping on this issue to help resolve !

[FFRSpec72]

Quick news clip of the Rose Cup race, about 20sec in you will see the 818R


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haHsgY8DEgQ

[FFRSpec72]

I want to thank Brian @ iWire for jumping on the issue I had relative to the harness, it looks like the alternator shorted and caused issues, we are still not 100% sure but things sure point to that as the cause. The harness was pulled and sent to iWire, they completely replaced/updated the harness and it is on the way to me now, so we will install over the weekend, so we can get back out on the track in August. Once again iWire comes through with great customer service !

71750

[Mitch Wright]

Great News Tony.

[Sgt.Gator]

Tony I have a 2005 STI OEM Alternator available if you want it.

[FFRSpec72]

Tony I have a 2005 STI OEM Alternator available if you want it.

Thanks Gator, I have one extra here also, as I used a BRAND NEW (not refurbished) and that one broke a brush and that's is where we things went wrong. So hopefully we will be at the next race in Portland on the 19/20. Did you figure out what happened to your engine, any update ?

[Sgt.Gator]

Thanks Gator, I have one extra here also, as I used a BRAND NEW (not refurbished) and that one broke a brush and that's is where we things went wrong. So hopefully we will be at the next race in Portland on the 19/20. Did you figure out what happened to your engine, any update ?

Yep. The cracked expansion tank neck let air into the cooling system. The air bubbles created pockets under the closed deck. In race conditions the air pockets heated up and fried the rings which scored the block. We have a new short block coming from Rallispec.

Oddly, the coolant and oil temps never registered as hot. I only realized something was wrong when during my pre-race check on the second day I noticed that the coolant overflow bottle level was at the exact same point as the day before. That never happens! So I popped off the expansion tank cap and saw that it was dry. It took me 15 minutes to find the cracked expansion tank neck problem. The overflow bottle stayed the exact same because there was no suction to pull coolant back into the system.

The new tank went on and either I didn't burp it enough (trying to make it to Qualifying) or the damage was already done.

A totally weird kind of failure that only race cars would probably ever see. Like your new alternator brush failure setting your car on fire!

Cracked expansion tank neck and new plastic version tank. 71787...71788

[RetroRacing]

Im checking our tomorrow!

[FFRSpec72]

Car is heading to Portland International Raceway for test and tune day tomorrow and hopefully racing Saturday and Sunday in SPM class, hope all holds together.

[Mitch Wright]

Have fun

[Harley818]

fingers crossed this time..... Good luck Tony.

[Hindsight]

Good luck Tony! Wish I could be there to see it. I'll be in Oregon in September 9th through 16th... any races at PIR, ORP, etc during that time that you plan on attending?

[RetroRacing]

Good luck! we get to take our engine out again! yeah!!!

[Hindsight]

How did it go Tony?

[FFRSpec72]

How did it go Tony?

Things did not go well, I may be selling soon, as engine would not go over 4K, as soon as boost came on that was it. So back in tough with iWire as we hope its the speed sensor issue

[Frank818]

Oh crap. :( Hope you find the issue and keep the car.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Things did not go well, I may be selling soon, as engine would not go over 4K, as soon as boost came on that was it. So back in tough with iWire as we hope its the speed sensor issue

Tony,
You probably have a mix up in the 3 wires going to the vss sensor itself. Depending on year, type (FXT,STI,WRX,NA) i've seen inconsistencies in color code.

We had a similar problem when we replaced our transmission with a newer (2012) mt5 that was not machined for a VSS sensor.
We switched to a prox sensor on the front wheel.



http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=236077&viewfull=1#post236077 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=236077&viewfull=1#post236077)

Been working perfect for over a year now.
Bob

[RetroRacing]

So glad we didn't keep the stock wiring and ECU....I hate electrical issues, would rather deal with fire damage. :p

[Hindsight]

Sorry to hear of the issues Tony. I'd sure love to see you get it working but can understand how frustrating it must be.

[C.Plavan]

If you have a Cobb Tuner Accessport. Just disable VSS through it and flash. Simple as that for my car. I had a Legacy GT transmission (Which does not have a VSS sensor) I never had any issues.

[FFRSpec72]

New speed sensor harness (thanks to iWire) on the way so we will give it another shot for test and tune on September 1st at Portland International Raceway, and hopefully this will fix the problem

[iWire]

New speed sensor harness (thanks to iWire) on the way so we will give it another shot for test and tune on September 1st at Portland International Raceway, and hopefully this will fix the problem

VSS wasn't connected that weekend due to not having the jumper harness to convert the body plug style to the transmission jumper plug, this will fix it. ;)

https://www.iwireservices.com/product-page/vehicle-speed-sensor-extension-harness-02-07-turbo

[FFRSpec72]

VSS wasn't connected that weekend due to not having the jumper harness to convert the body plug style to the transmission jumper plug, this will fix it. ;)

https://www.iwireservices.com/product-page/vehicle-speed-sensor-extension-harness-02-07-turbo

Quick test around block seems to be OK, heading to track tomorrow and will see, thanks for the VSS harness Brian !

[longislandwrx]

Godspeed. (or faster)

[FFRSpec72]

Well the car ran well and we were sorting out the tire pressure issues and shock issues, water and oil temps were great, it was close to 100 out and the car was at 180 water and 200 oil temp. The last session the drive pulley on the dry sump pump came loose (we have not yet determined why or how) and the belt jump off and well you know the story, a toasted engine !


https://vimeo.com/232134004

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Well the car ran well and we were sorting out the tire pressure issues and shock issues, water and oil temps were great, it was close to 100 out and the car was at 180 water and 200 oil temp. The last session the drive pulley on the dry sump pump came loose (we have not yet determined why or how) and the belt jump off and well you know the story, a toasted engine !


https://vimeo.com/232134004

Tony, say it ain't so.
Is that you second or third engine this summer?

I think we are running the same scavenge pump as you. I thought that if that pump failed, the crankcase would just fill with oil and bring everything to a stop.
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Tony, say it ain't so.
Is that you second or third engine this summer?

I think we are running the same scavenge pump as you. I thought that if that pump failed, the crankcase would just fill with oil and bring everything to a stop.
Sorry to hear about your problems.
Bob

We have not fully assessed the damage, but the cloud of smoke was overwhelming, no holes in engine block, but when we popped the over, we saw the belt to the dry sump pump was off and the pulley was freely moveable along the pump shaft, so the pulley moved out of belt alignment and threw the belt and that was it, we have no idea how or why the pulley issue.

You can see in video that the car has some steering hop in the left hand turns, it seemed to get less when the tires headed up. The car is fast and handles well when running, we were running the 260hp tune so only 15lb of boost. So there is a lot more potential in speed and handling,

[C.Plavan]

I swear.... 818R curse. :(

[Mitch Wright]

Sorry to hear that Tony.
It has been a long time since I driven PIR, your video brings back some fond memory's.

[flynntuna]

Wow, hope it gets sorted out for you.
Just in case of a curse I have a line for an exorcist....

[Hindsight]

Tony, I'm SO sorry to hear about this!!!! I can't imagine how frustrated you must be. I hope you are able to get it back together quickly and cheaply.

[Sgt.Gator]

The engine may not be toast. Since you are running scavenge only (no engine oil pressure off the DS pump) the engine should have filled with oil until it blows out the aos and /or PCV and/ or the valve cover vents back to the DS tank. As I recall you still have the PCV or AOS hooked up which would explain the oil cloud. You may be just fine. Reattach he DS belt, remove one of the scavenge out lines from the DS pan and drain the block out. Clean out your intake if the aos or pcv are still connected to it. The intercooler and all the intercooler tubes will probably be coasted in oil too. Lots of cleaning to do, but maybe no mechanical damage. Empty the aos can. Reattach the DS line to the pan and refill the DS tank. Give it a start!

[Mitch Wright]

Same thought as Gator, the OEM pump is still supplying pressure.

[FFRSpec72]

Same thought as Gator, the OEM pump is still supplying pressure.

So I had taken the AOS out when I put in the new engine, but I was not using a pressure setup, so I left the car at Tom's and he looked at the pump today and looks like the set screws on the pulley came loose and caused the pulley to slide on the shaft and throw the belt. So he pulled the plugs, drained the engine, cleaned out intake and refilled sump tank. The engine started and Tom said that it shot oil out the exhaust everywhere, so big mess he had to clean up. So that is all I know so far, not sure if there was any damage to rings or valves, etc.

[RetroRacing]

That sucks, checking ours for sure! Did the engine hydrolock? you might have been lucky here, hope all checks out!

[FFRSpec72]

That sucks, checking ours for sure! Did the engine hydrolock? you might have been lucky here, hope all checks out!

I think it shut down from the oil (everywhere in the engine) and not sure it hydrolocked or not as the oil did not pour out of cylinders and the engine was cut as soon as the turbo billowed out a solid white cloud that everyone could see

[RetroRacing]

That would be a good thing, the rear wheels would have locked up under hydrolock, which is what bends things.

[FFRSpec72]

That would be a good thing, the rear wheels would have locked up under hydrolock, which is what bends things.

Happened coming out of the chicane so was just about to get on boost.

[tryon]

everything is fine, drain the oil pulled the plugs turn over the motor.... ton of oil on the floor,
clean intake and as much as I could, fired it up old Smokey running pretty good,

[RetroRacing]

That's great news, suspected as much knowing it didn't lock up.

Now, everything is fully lubed.

[Sgt.Gator]

Great News! My new shortblock should be ready to go by the Fall Enduro, see ya'll at PIR!

[tryon]

we aren't running the Enduro this year:( tony is

out of town and I think we need more testing and set up before a race like this. if you need help at the track give me a call gator

[Hindsight]

Very happy to hear the engine is in good shape!!!

[RetroRacing]

Cool!! We will know after testing at the ridge if we are running the 818 for the enduro or if we have to build a plan B. Since we sponsored it, we have to run it.....

[tryon]

retro, do you run a front sway bar?

[FFRSpec72]

retro, do you run a front sway bar?

Sway bars are for wimps !

[RetroRacing]

No sway bar in front, we already had a push problem so a bar would make it even worse. Just took it out at the ridge again on Friday and it handled like a champ....until the rear seal let go again!

[Mitch Wright]

Interesting I have been trying to get to the point of just a slight amount of high speed entry understeer to tune around.

[RetroRacing]

Then I would stiffen the rear springs by 50lbs to get it to rotate, you will be faster and can lower the rear ride height a touch if you want.

[Mitch Wright]

I have the luxury of being able to get on track and play with chassis, engine and aero on the car pretty regularly. Which has allow me to try a lot of different things and have found the car sensitive to changes in both butt feel and stop watch.

[Sgt.Gator]

Tony are you going to get your 818R out to the track this summer? We're hoping to see you and Tom at PIR this weekend!

[RetroRacing]

Ya, where you been brother?

[Mitch Wright]

Tony you out there???

[FFRSpec72]

Tony you out there???

Yes, been mainly racing the Cobra, Tom has been trying to run the 818 but we are having over heating issues, but the few laps we get in a QUICK, it is a very fast car

[Mitch Wright]

Welcome back, Overheating shoot, hope you can sort it out and have some fun. I use a Airlift to burp the air from my system. https://www.tooltopia.com/uview-550000.aspx?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=PLA&scid=scbplpUV+550000&sc_intid=UV+550000

[FFRSpec72]

OK, I have had it with the 818R, the Subaru setup is not for road racing. we have gone through 3 engines now, time to look at a Ford Eco Boost 2.3L engine and see how this will fit. So this will be an off season project and hopefully get the 818R on the track in 2020 finally.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

OK, I have had it with the 818R, the Subaru setup is not for road racing. we have gone through 3 engines now, time to look at a Ford Eco Boost 2.3L engine and see how this will fit. So this will be an off season project and hopefully get the 818R on the track in 2020 finally.

Tony, What killed the 3 engines?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Tony, What killed the 3 engines?
Bob

Always oil issues, after the first went to dry sump and 2 engines went with dry sump

[Zach34]

Always oil issues, after the first went to dry sump and 2 engines went with dry sump

Which dry sump system did you use? Do you think it foamed the oil like Chad's car originally did?

[Mitch Wright]

Sorry to hear about the engine issues. Suggestion, verify the tune to make sure you don't have a lean or detonation issue. Having 2.5 seasons and a lot of track miles on race tires seeing 1.6 to 1.7 G on a wet sump stock engine at 18psi of boost with out issue. Personally I would look for some other underlying issue.

[FFRSpec72]

Sorry to hear about the engine issues. Suggestion, verify the tune to make sure you don't have a lean or detonation issue. Having 2.5 seasons and a lot of track miles on race tires seeing 1.6 to 1.7 G on a wet sump stock engine at 18psi of boost with out issue. Personally I would look for some other underlying issue.

No issues as these are stock engines with just a drysump and new turbo, no engine mods

[fastfox]

OK, I have had it with the 818R, the Subaru setup is not for road racing. we have gone through 3 engines now, time to look at a Ford Eco Boost 2.3L engine and see how this will fit. So this will be an off season project and hopefully get the 818R on the track in 2020 finally.

Having looked closely at pictures, but not having the opportunity to pull a tape measure out on one, it looks to me like a guy could swap a Honda K series with trans into one of these with only a little frame mods... a TSX K24 is a hell of a lot better motor than the Ford, 260-280whp all motor is pretty standard lately, with boost they easily clear 400 with stock internals...

[Hobby Racer]

RetroRacing did it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18343-Retro-Racing-R-build&p=361428&viewfull=1#post361428

[FFRSpec72]

Car is now for sale, minus running engine, see the for sale adds, highy motivated to sell and priced as such.

[Mitch Wright]

Well I would have interest but afraid my wife would have another opinion on adding another project. anyway email me the info mitch@motorsportspark.org

[FFRSpec72]

Well I would have interest but afraid my wife would have another opinion on adding another project. anyway email me the info mitch@motorsportspark.org

Fully understand ! Here is the pointer to the add https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34130-818R-For-Sale with all the info , link to pictures and price

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Car is now for sale, minus running engine, see the for sale adds, highy motivated to sell and priced as such.

Tony, sorry to see your 818R up for sale. I know how much time and money you must have put into this car.
Do you mind sharing your plans moving forward?
Bob

[FFRSpec72]

Tony, sorry to see your 818R up for sale. I know how much time and money you must have put into this car.
Do you mind sharing your plans moving forward?
Bob

I will continue racing the FFR Challenge car and battling with Karen and others on the west coast. I will might be moving to a world challenge/Grand AM car.

[Blu]

Wow, that is not the ending I was expecting !!
Just spent hours reading every post start to finish, taking notes on your inspiring build.
So sorry it did not work out for you.
Appears many are having engine issues.

I am going with the Mitch Wright proven wet sump system and have ordered the Arctangent oil control plate this weekend. Already have the killer B pan and pickup, IAG AOS and will monitor the forums for solutions on durability of EJ25

I really enjoyed reading about your build.