RM1Sepex Build Thread

[RM1SepEx]

parking brake cable stay

manual says 5/16 button heads, I didn't get any.... Did everyone just use std bolts?

[wallace18]

parking brake cable stay

manual says 5/16 button heads, I didn't get any.... Did everyone just use std bolts?

I have a stock of S/S hardware I use. I don't think it matters too much what you use there. I am going with the Lokar PB the subie one is not working out so good. IMO. The split nut was weird to use for sure.

[Wayne Presley]

I did not use the bracket on mine or the GRM car. I mounted it directly on the firewall and used the snap in bracket on the original cable.

[RM1SepEx]

Back from Vegas Wayne? sounded like an awesome trip, I'm sure you wowed them with your car. Can't wait to see the HP and Torque #s

[metalmaker12]

Dan, I used the FFR supplied bracket, reinforced it and ran the cable with just enough room for the system to idle just right. I will take a short video to show you my setup. It works good and drives great, no need to worry.

[RM1SepEx]

Chris, I just set it up w/o the bracket, I didn't like the flexibility of their bracket and since the cable was too short...

I HATE the stock shifter... too much flex/slop in the plastic, too high etc... I'll start by cutting it down God only knows where I'll end up.

What did you use for seat bolts? Did you use hardware from the kit? I need to get creative as I need low profile both on the top for my sliders and on the bottom for ground clearance.

[VD2021]

I am sure it could not hurt.

Noted. It's now on my to-do list.

[metalmaker12]

I put in grade 8 3/8 bolts with washers and locknuts in from the bottom. I went and just made you a video for the cable.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Chris, I just set it up w/o the bracket, I didn't like the flexibility of their bracket and since the cable was too short...

I HATE the stock shifter... too much flex/slop in the plastic, too high etc... I'll start by cutting it down God only knows where I'll end up.

What did you use for seat bolts? Did you use hardware from the kit? I need to get creative as I need low profile both on the top for my sliders and on the bottom for ground clearance.


To mount my seat right to the floor used these two parts"

http://www.mcmaster.com/#90596a400/=pb7mo8


http://www.mcmaster.com/#91355a087/=pb7nc4

I used 25/64 bit in frame cross rails and 5/16 drill in seats. I did not weld the nut in at this point. The flange on the nut is in the bottom of the car.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

I already put my aluminum under the seat but I might be able to use those into the slider and down into the seat support tubes...

[C.Plavan]

Have any pictures of the removed angled bar- I'm getting ready to cut mine out too. Did you leave anything, or grind it down?

[RM1SepEx]

cut and ground. I'm putting in an interior so it will be covered by fatmat, then a thin foam and vinyl

[metalmaker12]

Kinda late or I missed it, One question, does that bar have structural importance

[C.Plavan]

Kinda late or I missed it, One question, does that bar have structural importance

Being that I am building a 818R- I'm not worried about it because of all the additional bars everywhere. Someone did say a FFR rep said you could cut them. Worst case, just weld up a different mount/bar that does not interfere with the seat adjustment.

[RM1SepEx]

if you look at it that bar should stiffen up the "open box" of the passenger compartment. The center tunnel area adds no stiffness though it could! I asked for numbers, didn't happen, best to keep the wife of 30 years (Jan of this year) happy and comfortable

[metalmaker12]

if you look at it that bar should stiffen up the "open box" of the passenger compartment. The center tunnel area adds no stiffness though it could! I asked for numbers, didn't happen, best to keep the wife of 30 years (Jan of this year) happy and comfortable

Happy wife=happy life

[RM1SepEx]

or the more common statement

Mama's not happy, no one's happy! :-)

[RM1SepEx]

So... seat sliders in, just need to bolt them down!

Anyone else trying to use the stock seat belts? The stock Subaru belt brackets don't work well with the space available. The belts have a hard time sliding back in to the reels, the seat is up against the side of the car...

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Canadian818]

So... seat sliders in, just need to bolt them down!

Anyone else trying to use the stock seat belts? The stock Subaru belt brackets don't work well with the space available. The belts have a hard time sliding back in to the reels, the seat is up against the side of the car...

Thoughts? Ideas?

Just finished catching up on your build thread. I expect my build thread to be much like yours, filled with questions. :D Thanks for sharing.

I expect everyone is using the stock subaru belts for now, except for the "R" builders since there's no harness bar yet. I'd imagine it'll be available soon since it was on the green sema car.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Dan
My seat belt came from the back of a wagon donor.
They release when straight up.
During my glider test they are mounted in the wagon seat belt mounts.
FFR designed it to be on the inside of the fire wall. My seat hits the spool in that position.
I mounted the spool on the engine side of the fire wall.
Had to use left side belt on right side and vice versa, but no issues there.
I wish I had a better picture for you, but this is it. My son in my car. his is at the powder coaters.
I'm using kirkey seat, so I will end up with a 5 point.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23430&d=1384660185 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23431&d=1384660475

[RM1SepEx]

I found that on the bottom, both sides, the belt mounts are made with no obvious way to fit in the limited space. I think that I can make up some 90 degree adapter brackets to allow using the rear seat mount bolts to hold the latch belt assembly on the tunnel side (after bending the bracket straight, the hole position can't fit the space avail. with the 90 degree bend) On the outer side I can cut off the slight lip on the bracket and attach it to the seat belt bracket that allows the belt to slide as you move it across your lap.

as an alternative I could bolt them to the seat brackets but that wouldn't be very safe as they are only attached to the car through my sliders!

I also eventually plan on using the harness approach but I want to have the std. belts there in an as close to single donor build as possible.

It is amazing how much lower you get with the aftermarket seats!

[RM1SepEx]

First the good news:

Craig made me up a set of the spacers that we determined fixed the rack bracket problem to equal steering and bumpsteer on both sides

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and provided my replacement rack bellows too :-)

The bad news: as I aligned the old FFR seat brackets to cut off angle stock to make my seat belt mounts my back "popped" UGH severe back pain sucks! back to the Osteopath... I was just there this morning!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Dan,
Sorry to hear about your back. Now you can relax on the heat pad while you help the rest of us.
Did you use Loctite or another method on you rack extension?
Hope your doctor gave you some good drugs.
Bob

[RM1SepEx]

yup, thread locker is your friend!

I visited my Osteopath again this AM... I already take 160 MG Baclofen, 1800 mg gabapentin, and 4 mg zanaflex a day... all three say don't operate machinery. I take enough muscle relaxants to make a horse stop breathing... :-) my std is totally drugged up!

[RM1SepEx]

10 days off with back issues, back to it starting today! Making up brackets to bolt my stock seat belts to the bolts holding my sliders vs to the sliders themselves.

[RM1SepEx]

Modified my passenger seat mounts today, just like the driver's side FFR made them about an inch higher than they have to be... I hacked them up to get the seat as low as possible. I'll powder coat the brackets this week and finalize the seat mounts by the end of the week. Using the stock seats and allowing for sliders for my wife has been a PITA :-)

Anyone have some tricks for the rear "alignment" as a first /starting point? Should I adjust the upper trailing arm so that the rear shock brackets and mounts are vertical with a level? Or should/can I use that adjustment to help center the tire in the rear wheel well The lower is fixed since I'm using stock trailing arms, the lateral links are used for toe and camber...

There must be a "string" method documented on the forum somewhere...

[nkw8181]

Looks like your are making great progress! Sorry to hear your back is not listening to your demands.

Nolan

[Erik W. Treves]

you need to make sure the rear upright is straight up and down or the long bolt that goes through the upright is parallel to the ground. Otherwise you'll end up with some goofy toe changes over bumps and turns.

[Xusia]

Hey Dan, any chance you'll share your bracket designs? I'm also using the stock seats, and I'd REALLY like sliders that allow the seat to be as low as possible (I'm 6'1").

[RM1SepEx]

Hey Dan, any chance you'll share your bracket designs? I'm also using the stock seats, and I'd REALLY like sliders that allow the seat to be as low as possible (I'm 6'1").

Since I don't have a milling machine here all that I did was eye how much the seat was over the floor pan. I then used my drill press to relocate the holes to drop the seat. It's not hard to transfer the holes, you may need to egg one out as they were by FFR. A back yard mechanic hack job at best!!! :-)

Check the slider thread on the forum for the other kits. They had some great sources, mine are from Cerullo but I bought them over 20 years ago and I have no part numbers.

After drilling the holes I used my cheap band saw to remove the material that was in the way... clean em up with the belt /drum sander on my bench grinder and they are ready to go.

I'm really disappointed that FFR doesn't even try to get the "stock seat brackets" as low as possible. It took me a half dozen photos and a 3 week wait until they made these. It's another case where I'm getting a bit frustrated. Their first brackets couldn't even line up with the 1 inch tubes... and were even higher!

I honestly don't see how you will get them low enough with stock seats at 6' 1"... sliders will cost you 3/4 of an inch. be prepared to remove some seat foam, many do that to get lower in a Miata.

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you can see how high the FFr brackets are... and I did send these photos to them and ask for lower brackets... You can also add holes and rotate the seat pan, make your legs bend more... etc... many options for seat placement exist to fit each individual.

[RM1SepEx]

About time that I post again, isn't it!!!

I finally drove it farther than a couple feet forward and backward on the lift. I forgot that I had a couple of aluminum panels test fit in the front. They stayed in place until the ICE at the end of my road. My aftermarket intake rattles vs the frame. Position will be very important for good airflow through the large side vent.

Shifts just fine, the knob is 2-3 inches too high for my taste, the brakes were soft... I need to re bleed. I couldn't get on it with the cold temps and wet pavement. I will be adding a small muffler to my exhaust, the stock downpipe with FFR adapter was too loud for my taste... I'm hoping a 3 inch bell mouth, 3 inch cat and this 3 inch muffler will do it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/360389108740?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
I don't see the little 3 inch vibrant will do it http://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-1769

http://youtu.be/X7vth-n88H0

[Aloha818]

Congratulations on the drive!

I was wondering where you've been, no progress posts for a while. But seeing all that snow and cold makes me think I wouldn't get out of bed until it was over!

[RM1SepEx]

We have a 120 degree temperature swing possible each year.... does yours vary by more than 10-15 Degrees?

Like many old farts (55 this week) I have many physical issues. Add that to being disabled since I was 32 and I'm lucky to get as far as I did. I'm pretty sure that w/o the FFR snafus and back orders I could have completed the car before December... Getting an early car adds to the opportunities for delay. This first drive could/should have been done in November...

[wallace18]

Glad to hear you are back at it. Keep up the good work.

[Goldwing]

Congrats on the first drive! Have fun getting back to the 818 project. I hope you keep feeling better.

[Rasmus]

I will be adding a small muffler to my exhaust, the stock downpipe with FFR adapter was too loud for my taste... I'm hoping a 3 inch bell mouth, 3 inch cat and this 3 inch muffler will do it.
Grassroots Motorsports (EDIT: MY BAD SCCA's Sportscar Magazine April 2014) just did an article on muffler effectiveness. I took away two things from it.

One. The largest determining factor in a mufflers ability to reduce decibel's was the internal volume of unit. The more volume the quieter it can get, regardless of muffler style (e.g. chambered, glasspack, turbo).
Two. Round works slightly better than oval. The sound waves cancel themselves out better bouncing back off the walls.
Three. They're slightly more effective the closer you install it to the heads/turbo. But, don't install it so close that the heat shreds apart the muffler packing.

I've read good things about Dynomax's Super Turbo Muffler (http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/exhaust.html) line

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/wlk-17698_w_ml.jpg
I know they make a 3" inlet/outlet round in 18" case length (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-17698/overview/)



http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/wlk-17789_ml.jpg
and a 3" inlet/outlet round in 30" case length (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-17789/overview/).

[RM1SepEx]

Looks like I've done a crappy job reading my GRMs!

I'm worried about length... look at the photo from JeromeS13

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bell mouth, short cat, muffler, output

[Rasmus]

My bad, not GRM. SCCA's Sportscar Magazine April 2014.

http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/14719.jpg
There's also Magnaflow's 14719 (http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/displayapplications.asp?partnumber=14719). Straight-through, 3" in/out, large internal volume, 7" diameter, and only 14" long.

[Frank818]

Two. Round works slightly better than oval. The sound waves cancel themselves out better bouncing back off the walls.

Most round ones have less volume than oval ones, at least in the Magnaflow list. If I recall...

[Mechie3]

Well, if you got back to it I guess I should start working again this weekend.

[RM1SepEx]

I was just out "playing" with the exhaust... I think that the 14 inch mufflers will fit only if you use the diagonal space on the left rear like FFR does with its adapter and tailpipe extension... So as soon as I get my downpipe I can start cutting it up and see what I can do with the bends in it. I may need to buy an angle or two. My plan is to dyno it with the FFR exhaust and then with my garage made 3 inch exhaust. Our autocross club has a DB meter, I'll get some readings...

It will be good to see you back into it Craig! How is your wife doing with pregnancy?

[Rasmus]

Most round ones have less volume than oval ones, at least in the Magnaflow list. If I recall...
Excellent point.

[RM1SepEx]

Worked on the shifter today, unhappy about the stock kit's clearance with the rear bodywork. I was able to get an inch add'l clearance playing around this afternoon

I took the stock Subaru shifter coupler and cut off both "ears" as close to the cylinder that has the double roll pin to hold it in place

I then flipped the FFR shift arm so that it's "ears" faced forward. Note it needs to be bent towards the front of the car quite a bit as you move the cable connections 1 inch forward and the bracket 1.5 inch forward.

Clearance the shifter coupler so that it sits as far to the right as possible, weld it to the FFR arm.

That leaves enough space between the coupler and the arm for a thinner 1/4 x 28 nut. Use locktite.

I drilled another hole in the shifter cable bracket that moves the bracket forward 1.5 inches (the existing bolt hole spacing)

I painted it up black and installed. Photos below from all angles. The shots from the left side show it in 1st and 3rd gears

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How did everyone center the 4 inch hole saw for the taillights?

[RM1SepEx]

Working on seating today, very frustrating, no frame tabs for lower belts, tho even if they were there we might not be able to use them with stock seats...

I modified the seat rails to get the seats as low as possible. That is detailed in this thread above.

driver's side, the seat barely fits between the aluminum side to side. There isn't 1/8 inch of clearance, I will have to make an alternative parking brake cable support like Aloha818

you can see how tight the seat is in these photos. I've also shown the seat travel with my 3/4 inch high slider, you can also see the angled bar has been removed. I might have to place the belt clip attachment to the seat rail on this side.

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Here is the passenger seat, it's also very tight fit including having to crush the front of the foam slightly by the angled crossbar.

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I'm struggling to determine where to attach the belts to the chassis, the desired locations interfere with the sides of the seats. I may modify the seat back angle arms on both seats. That will allow me to put the lower belt pivot location at the preferred location. The clip end can be attached to a mount attached to the center tunnel and lower chassis since the seat doesn't slide.

[metalmaker12]

Measure the center of the light opening and drill a pilot hole for the tails than hole saw it, a round file might help with any added clearance needed. I got my plates today and took it for an hour drive.

[RM1SepEx]

Congrats Chris,

I made a round template with a compass and scissors.

What did you do with your belt mounts? I assume you used a harness...

Take a 3 hour drive and we could do a BBQ and you could knock out my custom exhaust... :)

BTW: determined that my soft brakes were due to a defective rear braided brake line! Replacement in transit...

Edit: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Exeter,+RI/Freeport,+ME/@42.4234691,-70.8434875,8z/data=!4m24!4m23!1m15!1m1!1s0x89e5c8c72d6606c5:0x39 4e655db85e4d7!2m2!1d-71.5351476!2d41.5750676!3m4!1m2!1d-71.1988345!2d42.2726733!3s0x89e381da084400d5:0x24f d21829e48377f!3m4!1m2!1d-71.2619059!2d42.3869219!3s0x89e38349c5b426f9:0x456 844a9f35a73a1!1m5!1m1!1s0x4cb27e343e85a163:0x2b0ee 47bc7bb0e7d!2m2!1d-70.1031201!2d43.8570065!3e0

[wleehendrick]

I got my plates today and took it for an hour drive.

awesome... I'm envious

[Mechie3]

I did the same thing making a template, folded it on two axis to find the center.

[wleehendrick]

I did the same thing making a template, folded it on two axis to find the center.

Good trick... I'll be drilling the holes soon and plan to print templates. You don't have to have a CAD package, Vizio should work OK.

[metalmaker12]

Congrats Chris,

I made a round template with a compass and scissors.

What did you do with your belt mounts? I assume you used a harness...

Take a 3 hour drive and we could do a BBQ and you could knock out my custom exhaust... :)

BTW: determined that my soft brakes were due to a defective rear braided brake line! Replacement in transit...

Edit: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Exeter,+RI/Freeport,+ME/@42.4234691,-70.8434875,8z/data=!4m24!4m23!1m15!1m1!1s0x89e5c8c72d6606c5:0x39 4e655db85e4d7!2m2!1d-71.5351476!2d41.5750676!3m4!1m2!1d-71.1988345!2d42.2726733!3s0x89e381da084400d5:0x24f d21829e48377f!3m4!1m2!1d-71.2619059!2d42.3869219!3s0x89e38349c5b426f9:0x456 844a9f35a73a1!1m5!1m1!1s0x4cb27e343e85a163:0x2b0ee 47bc7bb0e7d!2m2!1d-70.1031201!2d43.8570065!3e0


Yeah I used harness's but the oem belt can be fasten to the seat bracket with some modification , example a welded tab etc. or maybe a bolt in mount so you don't have to weld. Maybe I can come up to help you out, also if you tack it and send it to me I can do it for low cost, I will even purge it so it comes out nice nice. I am pressed for time since my wife and I are 6 weeks away from our second born ( a son ...Landon Christopher Marciano will be his name) . I am open for a welding job of you and others want. Email, pm etc

[RM1SepEx]

Congrats on the son, now you will have a pair, one of each! Mine were in the opposite order and as an old fart I'm at the other end of their development!

Did you weld tabs to the chassis or mount your harness mounts to the seat frame?

[RM1SepEx]

Tabs on outside frame rails

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I had to re-bend the tab and bolted it to the 1 inch floor tubs on the inside

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Also coated the area under the seats. Fatmat, covered with plasti-dip for water protection. Drying right now.

I also covered any "bad" powder coat areas with POR15. It will take multiple coats and then a spray of gloss black for UV protection.

POR15 my final seat brackets and the two door brackets...

Hanging the body tomorrow after indoor karting tonite! :)

[Frank818]

Looks like your 2 attachments are invalid, Dan.

I wonder if we see the Fatmat and plasti-dip on one of them.

[RM1SepEx]

Trying to do something every day...

2nd coat of POR15 on the seat rails, door frames and frame

Installed fuel filler into fiberglass

Installed tail lights

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I also ordered my NRG steering wheel and adapter... Thanks Erik!

BTW You MUST pre-drill the blinkers, the self tapping # 10 screws are too large and you risk breaking the tabs... ask me how I know! :(

[wleehendrick]

Looks good!


I also ordered my NRG steering wheel and adapter... Thanks Erik!

You'll love it!

[RM1SepEx]

Working on hanging the body, started with the 5/8 inch at the lower front of the side panel

This placement seems to put the engine cover too far forward, I'm hesitant to relieve the engine cover more around the roll hoop.

I'm attempting a no paint build but I'm not sure that it is possible, between the larger voids in some edges and the poor panel fill at the rear of the side panels. Too much material is just plain missing. I also have a thin crack around my blinker on one side.

It's really important to make sure that the side panel is up vs the bottom of the car for the fenders to pull in to the engine cover, my gaps are too big.

I feel as if I should move the sides back a bit to leave more room around the roll bar but I'm not sure what it will do around the doors.

It's like a big 3D jigsaw puzzle.

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[Wayne Presley]

Dan, the side gaps will be taken care of when you bolt the side pods to the rear bolt on brace.
Do it in this order.
install both side pods, put a couple of self tapping screws in each side.
put the rear of the body on with two bolts on each side
make a cross bar between the two sides that hold the body at the correct width for the engine hatch and bolt it to the lip of each side.
slide one side fore or aft vs the other one to make the engine cover fit exactly at the door opening on both sides
slide the whole body side to side to center it over the rear tires
put the bolts in the bolt in frame brace/body mount
fine tune the centering of the rear panel and put in a couple of self tapping screws.

When you remove the panels for paint, use the hole from the self tapping screws to locate and install the riv-nuts
Let me know when you are ready to hang the doors, there are a few tips for that

[RM1SepEx]

excellent, logical process!

a couple questions: what sort of gap should this "brace" be made to achieve? Did you attach it at or around the back edge of where the engine cover ends? (I think we all see the gaps being farthest apart here and tight at the front and back. What is the proper clearance for the roll bar area of the engine cover. Define fit exactly at the door opening?

what do you suggest using, perhaps a strip of aluminum?

[Mechie3]

I'm at 3.25" from the front of the square tube that the firewall bolts to to the front of the engine cover where it makes a V between the two humps.

http://i.imgur.com/NOWscqb.jpg

Here is the side view where the roll bar comes down near the door. It touches and you can see where the PC wore off during shipping.

http://i.imgur.com/szX00Ey.jpg

[Wayne Presley]

excellent, logical process!

a couple questions: what sort of gap should this "brace" be made to achieve? Did you attach it at or around the back edge of where the engine cover ends? (I think we all see the gaps being farthest apart here and tight at the front and back. What is the proper clearance for the roll bar area of the engine cover. Define fit exactly at the door opening?

what do you suggest using, perhaps a strip of aluminum?


Dan,
I had used a piece of 1x1 aluminum angle at the flat where the front engine cover hood pin mounts and another behind where the body sits on the bolt on frame brace/body mount for my painter to fit the engine cover to the body off the chassis. So he had the tail mounted to the sides and the two cross bars maintaining the correct spread at the front. I reused the rear cross bar when I put the body on the chassis.

[Wayne Presley]

And I did have to relieve the engine cover around the roll bars but did position the sides so the roll bars did not come past the edge on the humps.

[Mechie3]

I like the idea of the permanent cross bar. It could help relieve a lot of the stress that is focused on such a small point of the fiberglass where it bolts to the mounting pad.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm at 3.25" from the front of the square tube that the firewall bolts to to the front of the engine cover where it makes a V between the two humps.

http://i.imgur.com/NOWscqb.jpg

Here is the side view where the roll bar comes down near the door. It touches and you can see where the PC wore off during shipping.

http://i.imgur.com/szX00Ey.jpg

mine is just a hair over 3 inches! UGH

[RM1SepEx]

Dan,
I had used a piece of 1x1 aluminum angle at the flat where the front engine cover hood pin mounts and another behind where the body sits on the bolt on frame brace/body mount for my painter to fit the engine cover to the body off the chassis. So he had the tail mounted to the sides and the two cross bars maintaining the correct spread at the front. I reused the rear cross bar when I put the body on the chassis.

Great info! did you pick something easy for the desired spacing like a paint stir strip or a thick yardstick? 1/8 or 3/16???

Leaving that angle would leave an excellent place to support the engine cover in the middle with some rubber to hold it at the correct height!

[ehansen007]

I'll be putting the body on my car right after the HB show in two weeks. I'm looking for anyone to come out and help me shoot video so we can put all this great info from Wayne, Aloha, Frank, Erik etc on film to great increase the success of body installs for all builders. I did this with the doors on the 33 a while back and got some good input from builders. Pictures are word a thousand words but a video will save a million questions!

[metalmaker12]

I wish I had the time, cause my body is fitting up good and I am happy with my mods to get there. I could maybe take a small video, just pressed for time right now.

[Frank818]

but a video will save a million questions!

Darn true!

[Xusia]

Erik, that's an awesome idea. I wish I could help - I'm just a tad far away!

[Evan78]

I'll be putting the body on my car right after the HB show in two weeks. I'm looking for anyone to come out and help me shoot video so we can put all this great info from Wayne, Aloha, Frank, Erik etc on film to great increase the success of body installs for all builders. I did this with the doors on the 33 a while back and got some good input from builders. Pictures are word a thousand words but a video will save a million questions!That sounds like a great idea. It would be even better to have someone experienced with fitting 818 panels on hand so there's not as much trial and error to cut out of the video.

[Brando]

I'll be putting the body on my car right after the HB show in two weeks. I'm looking for anyone to come out and help me shoot video so we can put all this great info from Wayne, Aloha, Frank, Erik etc on film to great increase the success of body installs for all builders. I did this with the doors on the 33 a while back and got some good input from builders. Pictures are word a thousand words but a video will save a million questions!

I'm game Erik. I will be installing my body at the same time so two birds

[DruOdil]

Me too

[RM1SepEx]

So I'm ready to square mine up, just picked up some aluminum angle. Wayne did you push the sides out at the front edge? The front edge of the engine cover sits wider than the sides and I need to twist it to force it to sit inside the side panels. It is very tight in the front and gets progressively looser as you go back across the engine cover. Wayne can you give us some dimensions from that orange beauty? I'd like to see the dimension inside to inside of the edge made by the rear fenders at the front edge and at the end of the square pad to mount the fenders and at the end of the engine cover.

At the rear of the engine cover it sits too low to align with the trunk, the trunk must be bowed up in the center to line up with the sides of the rear fenders and rear clip. You can see this in all of the body mounting photos, Aloha818 is using two gallons of paint to hold the corners down right now! I'm thinking that I can add a support off my 1 x 1 aluminum angle in the center to bow up the engine cover, making it align with the rear trunk panel.

Craig, I played with my side panels a bit and now have that same 3 1/4 dimension between the humps to the front edge of the fire wall

[Wayne Presley]

I did not have to spread the front of mine, nearly perfect at the front edge. Wide in the middle and about right at the back. The rear center of the engine hatch needs a support to really stay in shape.

[DruOdil]

I did not have to spread the front of mine, nearly perfect at the front edge. Wide in the middle and about right at the back. The rear center of the engine hatch needs a support to really stay in shape.

That brings up a good point Wayne. Can you tell your reinforcement of the whole body? I am sure each peace would need some.

[Wayne Presley]

The trunk lid provides some support for the engine cover. I have a support for the hood but FFR has addressed it with a mod to the kit. Everything else about the body seems by the book.

[RM1SepEx]

I think that storing the body flat for 6 months was not good for the fiberglass pieces. My engine cover has to be twisted and forced to sit flat in the front. The rear is flat and sits 3/4 inch below the trunk lid as the trunk curves to the rear and the engine cover is flat.

Wayne, You did have to trim the edge of the engine cover and trunk as they are quite a bit above the fenders???

How even are your gaps and how much gap were you able to obtain?

[Wayne Presley]

I have really good gaps. You do have to trim the vertical part of the engine cover and trunk to match the height of the sides.

[Aloha818]

At the rear of the engine cover it sits too low to align with the trunk, the trunk must be bowed up in the center Aloha818 is using two gallons of paint to hold the corners down right now!

Just to clarify the pic you mentioned, so that no one get the wrong idea, I had just placed some steel braces/inserts and covered with fiberglass/resin and I wanted to make sure it cured to match the body. But the pins are needed to hold the corners down some, at least on mine.

Here is a pic from today with no weights

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[RM1SepEx]

That's what I meant to say, the trunk tends to flatten as it sits and the rear clip is curved. I think that both less time and better storage (yours were hung, mine were set down flat) means that yours don't pop up as much as mine. Putting weight on it in position helps to hold it down. I don't want to use hood pins, I need to work alternatives. I think that it will be better to cut the depth of the return before I finalize body position too, if it is shorter it will conform easier. You can see how much it sits up in my earlier pictures.

Can you measure across your engine cover in the front, I want to see how much my cover has flattened after 6 months. I have to bend the cover, adding curvature to get it to fit. Then my engine cover sits way down below the trunk lid in the center.

You can see how much my panels flattened since August by laying them flat

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Has anyone considered some sort of a rubber edge to avoid the rubbing and squeeking of the panels where they contact each other?

[Aloha818]

That's what I meant to say, the trunk tends to flatten as it sits and the rear clip is curved. I think that both less time and better storage (yours were hung, mine were set down flat) means that yours don't pop up as much as mine. Putting weight on it in position helps to hold it down. I don't want to use hood pins, I need to work alternatives. I think that it will be better to cut the depth of the return before I finalize body position too, if it is shorter it will conform easier. You can see how much it sits up in my earlier pictures.

Can you measure across your engine cover in the front, I want to see how much my cover has flattened after 6 months. I have to bend the cover, adding curvature to get it to fit. Then my engine cover sits way down below the trunk lid in the center.

You can see how much my panels flattened since August by laying them flat

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27870 27867

Has anyone considered some sort of a rubber edge to avoid the rubbing and squeeking of the panels where they contact each other?

Dan I'll measure later today to confirm but from memory it was 57" at the most forward edge at the top between the sides.

My engine cover also twists out like your pic, the hood pins keep mine lined up and held down. I'm just before adding some steel supports for the rear area. Reading to see what everyone is doing.

I'm also interested in some kind of rubber edge or other solution to keep the hood, front and rear trunk/engine cover from wearing/rubbing the paint.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm alone right now and it's hard to hold in place but I get 58 1/2 in the front

I'll get better measurements when the wife is at home. She's off with my daughter on her last college trip and a cheering competition.

I assume that you clipped off the shelf that the trunk sits on at the ends of the engine cover, if you don't you can't get the engine cover to sit down far enough, the engine cover is 5/8 deep with that shelf.

Rubber that slides on and extends up a bit on the inside perhaps, or just a simple piece sliding over the vertical?

[Mechie3]

I had to trim my trunk about 1/8" all around and 1/4" where it sits on the engine cover lip.

[RM1SepEx]

The engine cover is a bit more complicated as you have to notch it where the trunk sits too and it is flat in the rear portion but mates at an angle in the front.

I've been trying to move it together to reduce the gap in stages, I've found I can move it a little more every day!

Sadly my desktop crashed and my little travel netbook has seen better days, I've dropped it several times!

My next problem is attempting to use the stock wheels, they are lost in the wheel wells. It looks like I can space them out at least an inch or an inch and a half!

[Mechie3]

I have my aftermarket snow wheels and tires on right now. 17x7 with 225 tires. They look like this

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5GU6ulebBaNlY0glR4DwRkek2sZNV4 YaBm-uXdOrxmNF2ZZvJhsAtxO8TWA

[Aloha818]

Dan I double checked my measurements today. At the forward most point of the engine cover between the side sails I have 57 3/8". Since I was adding fiberglass and repairing the small cracks that started in the engine cover where the roll bar braces pass through, I jiggled up the cover to hold 57" at the front location while placing the fiberglass. Now just leaning up against the wall on end it still holds the 57".

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Mechie3]

Why do you have to notch the engine cover?

[ehansen007]

I'm also interested in some kind of rubber edge or other solution to keep the hood, front and rear trunk/engine cover from wearing/rubbing the paint.

Guys, would some minimal weather strip make sense here for spacing, and rubbing/noise reduction?

[RM1SepEx]

Aloha, I'm measuring to the vertical molded surface, not the horizontal return

Craig, the engine cover has a horizontal surface that the engine cover sits on (before hinge assy) it is molded to 5/8 depth. The vertical surface of the fender there is 1/2 so the engine cover sits too high. You need to remove the "shlf" where they overlap. The marked Xs are only approx :)

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Erik, absolutely! I need them in white tho!

[Aloha818]

Aloha, I'm measuring to the vertical molded surface, not the horizontal return

Craig, the engine cover has a horizontal surface that the engine cover sits on (before hinge assy) it is molded to 5/8 depth. The vertical surface of the fender there is 1/2 so the engine cover sits too high. You need to remove the "shlf" where they overlap. The marked Xs are only approx :)

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Erik, absolutely! I need them in white tho!

Dan, sorry, misunderstood. I needed to make the same notches and cut the trunk lids return lip (also the hood). The trunk lids took at least 1/4" to get close to flush. I still need to remove a little more, but waiting till I get a little closer to the end of the body work. Bear in mind that if you paint you will be adding a small amount of material to the top of the flanges and to the bottom the return, so need to go a little farther in the rough to end up flush.

I plan on adding that clear plastic chip guard to parts of the body when I'm done, I wonder if I lined the top of the flanges with that if that would help keep the parts from rubbing?

[Frank818]

There's a lot of scratches on your panels. Were they like that at delivery date?

[Mechie3]

Yeah, that makes sense. My engine cover is all ready too short in the front (doors are too high) so I didn't even mess with that yet.

[RM1SepEx]

There's a lot of scratches on your panels. Were they like that at delivery date?

scratches? tape residue and mold release wax, not scratches, plenty of voids in the sharp edges tho, I expect to be skilled with the gel coat if I want to get it done w/o paint. The top edges of the fenders SUCK!!! I'm told that 2000 grit wet sanding will smooth it out, I doubt it. Between wookie compatible, various communication issues, the build "manual" and its errors, no paint finish, credibility is lacking. My expectations were higher.

I'm particularly concerned about the trailing upper edge of my rear fenders, they are "missing" a whole bunch of material and building up and then doing gel coat might be a challenge. I don't want a weak repair that will chip off.

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without this forum :) a first time builder such as myself would be lost or would destroy parts and re-purchase replacements! :(

Aloha, I think that we are still measuring differently. The engine cover sits in a groove made by the rear fender where it meets the door. I measured 58 5/8 with help today across from the edge of the groove across the cockpit to the edge of the groove.

based on the wheel offsets used by others I'll be buying 1 1/2 inch spacers to bring my rear wheels/tires out to the fenders in the back and I'll try 5-10 mm in the front

[RM1SepEx]

It is amazing how much you can flex the panels if you are patient!

My panels flattened, a LOT, during 6 months f cold storage...

Check out how much it has come in with some constant force, wooden spacers and duct tape!

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[Xusia]

I guess that also means better support is required to KEEP the proper shape!

[Frank818]

How flat were they before your special treatment?

[RM1SepEx]

who knows, I had to bend the front of the engine cover in a ton, over an inch. The fenders were out about 3/4 of a gap and now I can hold .125-.150

I would hang them off somehow... Aloha818 had his hanging. I think with warmer weather it would be easier, we have only had one day so far hit 60!

I'm considering these vs hood pins

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the pop ups that Wayne just used look good too but these go with my CF FFR aero pieces and my APR CF mirrors

[Frank818]

I like those pins! Would go with my CF too. What are they?

And also, I didn't know FB could bend that much!

[RM1SepEx]

I think that the fiberglass has quite a bit of give to it. Mine sat flat (that's how FFR said we could store them) the weight of the center pulls down spreading the contact points. When I first placed them on the car it was damn cold... now it's only cold... I bet in the sun they would soften up a bit more and be easier to work with... Wayne's aluminum angle support will be added soon to hold it in place and support the engine cover in the middle (Metalmaker, Chris, did a cover support too) I think several have added supports for the fenders in the front too.

$20 a set on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-JDM-Hood-Pins-Real-Carbon-Surface-Plate-Locks-Keys-Kit-Black-MUSTANG-CAMARO/231201145694?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222008%26algo%3DSIC.MOTORS%26ao%3D 1%26asc%3D20140107083349%26meid%3D6277581440159513 872%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107083349%26rk%3D4 %26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D111304441476

[Frank818]

I hope the panels won't bend when ON the car!!

I don't recall seeing the panel cover pix of Wayne, metal and others, but once you make your own, could you post a couple of pix? Might be a nice security add-on I would also do.

I don't have my kit yet, how many hood pins we need? 4 or 6? Or more? We have 3 panels we can lift, right? Front hood, double-hump deck lid and rear "trunk" deck lid?

[RM1SepEx]

When they are on the car the are held in place, they can't really move though plastic composites do expand and contract with temp changes, lighter colors are "easier" on the assemblies are they reflect vs absorb heat. There are many methods, Erik did a nice hinging front and rear with no pins. I want to hinge the front. The kit comes with 5 sets... front and rear of hood, front and rear of engine cover and rear of the trunk. I'm hoping to only use 2 or 3 sets of pins. I'm not sure how I will do it, but I document everything.

Craig (Mechie3) has some neat front fender supports in his thread, Chris (Metalmaker) did one for the engine cover in the rear in his thread. Wayne has done a combo support to hold the rear fenders in place and support the engine cover. No photos of that yet...

[Mechie3]

If there's enough interest I could be convinced to get those fender supports out for quote. ;)

[DruOdil]

If there's enough interest I could be convinced to get those fender supports out for quote. ;)

I want some

[RM1SepEx]

They are pretty :)

[Frank818]

I'm in, though it may not be the right thread for this, but I'm in.

[Triathletedave]

Tabs on outside frame rails

27694



I had to re-bend the tab and bolted it to the 1 inch floor tubs on the inside

27695


Also coated the area under the seats. Fatmat, covered with plasti-dip for water protection. Drying right now.

I also covered any "bad" powder coat areas with POR15. It will take multiple coats and then a spray of gloss black for UV protection.

POR15 my final seat brackets and the two door brackets...

Hanging the body tomorrow after indoor karting tonite! :)

Looks like I may be doing the same with my lower seatbelt anchors, as I also have the same seats. Looks like a pretty tight fit!

[RM1SepEx]

Eye Candy arrived today, my carbon fiber theme continues:

28093

[Frank818]

It's a wrap? Looks better than a wrap, though.

[Wayne Presley]

Nope, those are SPA real carbon mirrors...

[wleehendrick]

Eye Candy arrived today, my carbon fiber theme continues:


Very nice! I've been eyeing those, APR GT3 carbon fiber mirrors or motorcycle mirrors. I too have a bit of a c.f. theme going.

[metalmaker12]

?$$$

[RM1SepEx]

<$200 APR GT3 generic mounts

Featherweight :) Pretty :):o

very nice finish

Donor was rolled, only the driver side rear door was undamaged, had to buy mirrors, these are sweet

[metalmaker12]

I always loved them, might have to get em

[Canadian818]

Very nice, on my shopping list.

[flynntuna]

No matter which mirror you choose...

[RM1SepEx]

Time for a break today, nice up here, 50's and sunny. Priorities though, had to get my daughter set with the 06 Ninja that I bought for her to drive. 1500 miles, $1000! Her life is tough, she drives a sweet little 91 Miata and this ninja. I received my wheel spacers, I hope that my math was right. I'm using the stock 05 WRX wheels and I spaced them out 1.5 inches. They fill the wheel wells much better.

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[Santiago]

Just to be on the safe side with that style of spacer, you might consider taking the wheels off after 100 miles to re-torque the spacer lugs.

At least when on track, it's not uncommon for wheel lugs to loosen a tad after the first session. After a quick check/re-torque, I've rarely found that they take additional torque no matter how hard we drive the rest of the day. I'd expect the same with these. Pull off the wheel, re-torque the spacers and you shouldn't ever have any trouble with them.

Best,
-j

[RM1SepEx]

Just like all aluminum rim fitments... I like to re-torque after a day or two.

[RM1SepEx]

Header work, just starting to cut it up! :rolleyes:

3 inch throughout: Bell mouth, flowmaster cat, 90 degree bend... working muffler space. I need to mock up wheel wells... It's going to be tight!

28124

Is anyone using a "real" muffler yet? JeromeS13, your's doesn't count!

Anyone ever tried one of these? http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Auger-Style-Muffler,1736.html

[Wayne Presley]

Is anyone using a "real" muffler yet? l (http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Auger-Style-Muffler,1736.html)

I'm using a Vibrant muffler on mine, the GRM and Erik's car.

[Goldwing]

I'm toying with a stock passenger side C6 corvette muffler fed through a Cobb 3" bellmouth downturn, the cat moved up immediately after the downturn, then downsized to 2.5" and into the muffler. The plan is to set the muffler angled towards the rear right corner. I haven't planned the exit yet, but it'll be at the rear right corner, lol. The downpipe I picked up cheap as it got twisted in a wreck and not sellable as a bolt in solution, enter my 818! I just rough cut the pieces today, so I can't vouch for fitment yet, give me a few days. Stock exhausts are usually tuned for the car, so who knows how it will sound. Just "Cobb"-ling together what I could find that looked like it could fit, but be breathable enough to handle some tuning. My initial plan is to stand the can and let the bottom hang just below the frame getting the top low enough so it isn't higher than the transmission as to not interfere with trunk plans. I had also found a camaro SS muffler which had a perfect shape but is just a touch too big. Here's a mockup I did before picking up the muffler. The cardboard box being the size of the muffler can.

28139

[RM1SepEx]

I'm using a Vibrant muffler on mine, the GRM and Erik's car.

the 6" OD, 3" pipe, 14" one, without a CAT?

[RM1SepEx]

Goldwing, what are the dimensions of the box, I want 3 inch all the way / looking for a smaller muffler. A short glass pack might work but they don't last...

[wallace18]

Wheels look good Dan. Your daughter is a lucky girl to have a Dad like you.

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks Tom, first job as Dad is to take care of the family, she works hard to get top notch grades (both my kids do) so they deserve to have some fun, but their grades are always top priority!

Anyone ever use either of these from Vibrant? Also thoughts on just using a "resonator" vs muffler?

28140 aluminum, 3" 14" overall length (10 inch can)

28141 stainless, 3" 9 inch overall, looks to provide little noise reduction (I think JeromeS13 is using the 5 inch model) essentially no volume for gasses to expand

Tom, what is your exhaust?

[lsxsean]

Awesome. Good luck with build!

[Goldwing]

Goldwing, what are the dimensions of the box, I want 3 inch all the way / looking for a smaller muffler. A short glass pack might work but they don't last...

The box and muffler can measure 13" long x 12" high x 9" wide. 2.5" inlet though. I like the idea of 3" too, it will have some, but not much, lol, if this fits. Especially seeing your downpipe beginnings, I have a good vibe. Unlike most, I do want to hush the sound a bit.

[wallace18]

I used 2 sprint car sound reducers in mine. Not very quiet. I may add a motorcycle type baffle down the center.

[RM1SepEx]

Tom, I went back through your thread, not enough for me...

Goldwing, I'm getting very confident that I can fit this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CENTER-OFFSET-3-INCH-EXHAUST-OVAL-MUFFLER-SILENCER-M-/360389114295?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e8dd79b7&vxp=mtr

The body of the muffler is 14 x 9 x 4

28201

only $45, all stainless, appears to be well made, pretty good volume

[Stickshift84]

You can definitely fit a muffler like that. Check my thread.

[RM1SepEx]

You don't have a CAT too... :)

[Goldwing]

I see no problems fitting that. I got a feel for the available space by comparing the space between straight back and FFR's angled bracket direction. I figure the space in between both runs is fair game.

[RM1SepEx]

3" bends are longer...

I'm at a stand still, I broke my last bandsaw blade... They will be here Tuesday from McMaster

Today, summerize the old Deere tractor and get it ready for Dani to mow. I have to remove the blower, chains, weights, cab and install the mowing deck. I'm sure that the deck will need some work too...

[indiana818]

thanks!!! looks like that will work fine
kerry

[RM1SepEx]

Soooo

YUP, she fits!!! I just need an exit strategy now... Photos soon. I will need to do some insulation and heat shielding tho, I have some pretty good clearances.

Now another issue, I'm thinking that I can eliminate hood pins for the engine cover pretty easily. I've been planning on using a piece of 1 inch angle across the fenders (like Wayne did) and positioning it at the rear engine cover, it will have tabs on it to hold down the back of the cover (see Aloha818's thread) In the front of the engine cover I'm going to use a 2 inch long piece of 3/16 x 1.5 aluminum angle attached to the fender where the hood pins are usually used. I'll glass in the back of the engine cover to get a good tight fit vs the engine cover (countoured) and use a large head stainless screw to hold the cover in place from the inside of the engine cover.

28229

So adding a hinge to the front of the hood I'll only have the two CF lockable hood pins at the back of the hood and two at the back of the trunk.

[Aloha818]

Soooo

YUP, she fits!!! I just need an exit strategy now... Photos soon. I will need to do some insulation and heat shielding tho, I have some pretty good clearances.

Now another issue, I'm thinking that I can eliminate hood pins for the engine cover pretty easily. I've been planning on using a piece of 1 inch angle across the fenders (like Wayne did) and positioning it at the rear engine cover, it will have tabs on it to hold down the back of the cover (see Aloha818's thread) In the front of the engine cover I'm going to use a 2 inch long piece of 3/16 x 1.5 aluminum angle attached to the fender where the hood pins are usually used. I'll glass in the back of the engine cover to get a good tight fit vs the engine cover (countoured) and use a large head stainless screw to hold the cover in place from the inside of the engine cover.

28229

So adding a hinge to the front of the hood I'll only have the two CF lockable hood pins at the back of the hood and two at the back of the trunk.

Looks like we are working on the same mods, 6 time zones apart! I worked out a similar solution, except with the hold down screw in the front, door opening side. Looking good!

[RM1SepEx]

I got the exhaust to fit! I'll add heat protection for the rear bumper as I have about 3 inches clearance in several spots. I'm thinking sheet aluminum with some insulation between the aluminum and the fiberglass.

The exhaust will exit the right rear bumper cover and point down. In the same area as someone who used the FFR provided adapters and a stock 05 downpipe

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I'm going to wait to weld it up until I've finalized the rear inner fender aluminum.

[RM1SepEx]

Headlight Bucket question:

My fiberglass buckets fit well, it appears that the lower front edge is supposed to come up underneath the front fascia's fiberglass. The headlights set in nicely.

HOWEVER the z shaped bracket that supports the front of the bucket appears to be waaaaay too long. The manual suggests slightly bending the bracket if it is long. Mine are so long bending just isn't working out. Did anyone ahead of me run into this issue? Just trying to see what everyone else did before I just re-bend the bracket or do I have my headlight buckets too low? Not sure how they will align with the fenders and the hood yet.

[wallace18]

Headlight Bucket question:

My fiberglass buckets fit well, it appears that the lower front edge is supposed to come up underneath the front fascia's fiberglass. The headlights set in nicely.

HOWEVER the z shaped bracket that supports the front of the bucket appears to be waaaaay too long. The manual suggests slightly bending the bracket if it is long. Mine are so long bending just isn't working out. Did anyone ahead of me run into this issue? Just trying to see what everyone else did before I just re-bend the bracket or do I have my headlight buckets too low? Not sure how they will align with the fenders and the hood yet.

I had to bend mine quite a bit. I used some nutserts for the headlight screws on the outside as well. I do not have any photos to show you though. That was a while ago for me.

[RM1SepEx]

I think that I got them finally, I can't believe how much I had to bend them, they were about 3/8 too long! I assume that the bucket tucks in under the fiberglass of the front fascia...

Did you run out of 1/4 -20 flange head screws?

[Aloha818]

I think that I got them finally, I can't believe how much I had to bend them, they were about 3/8 too long! I assume that the bucket tucks in under the fiberglass of the front fascia...

Did you run out of 1/4 -20 flange head screws?

I had to bend mine a lot too. 3/8" is probably close. I ran out of 1/4"-20's, bought 50 more locally, but not exactly the same looking head, still hex though. Then ordered another 50 from FFR. So I'm only using the odd ones where they won't be seen much.

[wleehendrick]

Headlight Bucket question:

My fiberglass buckets fit well, it appears that the lower front edge is supposed to come up underneath the front fascia's fiberglass. The headlights set in nicely.

HOWEVER the z shaped bracket that supports the front of the bucket appears to be waaaaay too long. The manual suggests slightly bending the bracket if it is long. Mine are so long bending just isn't working out. Did anyone ahead of me run into this issue? Just trying to see what everyone else did before I just re-bend the bracket or do I have my headlight buckets too low? Not sure how they will align with the fenders and the hood yet.

I just did mine yesterday and noticed both issues... it appears FFR is trimming the front edge of the bucket; mine also sit under the fascia; there's no lip to go over the front like in the manual. Also my brackets were quite a bit too long and took a big bend to make them fit.

[RM1SepEx]

Started aligning the front end today, I need to trim the front clip about an inch to get it back enough to line up with the fenders. It is starting too look like a sportscar!

28563

[Frank818]

You are getting close to the end!

[RM1SepEx]

You are getting close to the end!

I don't think that it ever "ends" so many that have started after I did made mods that I "may" need to incorporate... There are pros and cons to being a very early builder.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm happy with my exhaust assembly. The O2 sensor location will never be perfect, how can we get it downstream from the turbo far enough yet upstream from the exit so pulses pulling in air don't affect it's operation?

Work on the body continues, I want to relocate the IC to the right rear vent/side scoop area.

The body alignment is ongoing. As the temp increases, I find that I can continue to "tweak" the body into position

I'm finding that the nose needs a bracket to allow attachment at the lower radiator bracket, the nose is in front of it with the body located as directed.

The front fenders need to be relieved at the front inside edge of the headlights, and at the outside edges where it is a sort of "eyelid" over the lens

the hood returns, engine cover returns, trunk are all too long to get body alignments. I wish that FFR trimmed them more accurately as it is difficult for us to rapidly get a nice, clean straight edge. I can't do it with a reciprocating saw, if I use one I spend long amounts of time with a flat file to get a good straight edge. I'm not sure that I can do any better with a rotary cutting tool and abrasive blade.

It appears that my door skins are also too deep. They align almost perfectly without the inner door skin attached, so when they are and any upholstery is included they will need to be trimmed as well, again not easy to do, for us, by hand

I'm not sure what I can do with the area of the windshield support where it comes down to the door, a large gap is evident and I won't have stock mirrors there to partially hide it

The fenders and windshield need to be "adjusted" for clearance, not sure what will work best.

My desire to do a no paint car is severely questionable. As I get farther and farther into the body alignment I see more areas that are not very well finished with the gel coat. The mold's corners were not filled with gel coat when the layup was done. Add that to the voids that keep popping up. As you work with getting thee panels into alignment you twist ans stretch them slightly, what then happens, areas of the damn gel coat just pop off.

[RM1SepEx]

Here are my most significant issues...

the hood is tight at the back of the nose, the hood returns seem to flare out vs going down at a 90 degree angle, there can be no adjustment here, the nose is a single piece

the right rear of the hood is damaged

the right fender's edge is very rough, not sure that I can clean up the gel coat with sanding and polishing

the rear corners of both rear fenders are incomplete

the rear edge of the nose where the fenders meet are incomplete

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[Mechie3]

I have the same (if not bigger) gap by the door/fender. The stock mirrors don't hide it at all.

[Frank818]

Ugh. :( The finish on these panels is utterly worse than mines. I don't have any of this. Maybe FFR made some production adjustments for the newer chassis #s.

Can you get a FB pro to do the mods? $ of course, but maybe he can fix most of this.

[metalmaker12]

This car is not a paint free car period. Even if you want to wrap or dip you will have to fill edges and cracks along with gelcoat air pockets. This is part of building any fiberglass body car. I have all similar voids and will have to fill them if I have not already.

[Brando]

I wish that FFR trimmed them more accurately as it is difficult for us to rapidly get a nice, clean straight edge. I can't do it with a reciprocating saw, if I use one I spend long amounts of time with a flat file to get a good straight edge. I'm not sure that I can do any better with a rotary cutting tool and abrasive blade.

I have been using a belt sander with great results

[RM1SepEx]

Ugh. :( The finish on these panels is utterly worse than mines. I don't have any of this. Maybe FFR made some production adjustments for the newer chassis #s.

Can you get a FB pro to do the mods? $ of course, but maybe he can fix most of this.

New employees for ramp up? Mine was an early kit #17, right when they were having issues doing 3 kits a week... Fiberglass layup is an art

Brando, I'll try the belt sander, how do you hold the panel? Time to get out my Isreali gas mask?

[Brando]

I have been putting my panels on my lawn because it keeps them pretty stationary and no scratches. I use one hand to support the piece the other on the sander and so far its yielded super straight clean lines. You can take down 1/4" on a 1' rail in 30 seconds. Reminds me of shaping surfboards with a power plainer.

[longislandwrx]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!

[Mechie3]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!

Step 1: Design Lotus 7 style fenders
Step 2: Make fenders
Step 3: Install Fenders
Step 4: Drive around in your "exo" car

:D

[VD2021]

Looking at the pictures, I can't see FFR not exchanging some or all of them if you chose that route.

[RM1SepEx]

Looking at the pictures, I can't see FFR not exchanging some or all of them if you chose that route. :rolleyes:



"If you are running a no paint setup, then yes you will have to work the panels to make them 100%. The body panels will never be 100% without them being made out of ABS plastic, or without being worked with. That is why we are offering the gel coat repair kits to customers who are planning on running the white bodies, to help with touchups. The reason you are having cracking in tight corners is due to spraying in the gel coat, letting it set then laying up your resin. When the resin sets it heats up causing small spider cracks. You cannot spray more gel coat into the area because it will gunk up."



Joe S

[RM1SepEx]

I have been putting my panels on my lawn because it keeps them pretty stationary and no scratches. I use one hand to support the piece the other on the sander and so far its yielded super straight clean lines. You can take down 1/4" on a 1' rail in 30 seconds. Reminds me of shaping surfboards with a power plainer.

I can't control a belt sander with one hand, I haven't felt my fingers without a tingling sensation in 23 years!

[Evan78]

all these stories, i'll be go carting until the FRP panels come out in 5 years!LOL, that was my thought. I like exocars. Just mount lights on a bracket and go drive!

[RM1SepEx]

My QuickJack came in today... Not quite as easy to use as I expected... no plastic covers to protect the quick connects and keep them clean, does a nice job lifting my wife's Miata so the 818S should be sweet up on the jack. It's a bit heavy and awkward to store, move and set up.

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[metros]

What heat/noise insulation mat are you using on the rear interior firewall? I've looked at several options but haven't been 100% satisfied with any.

[RM1SepEx]

It's fatmat. My plan is to use black vinyl over it for the interior. I made an electric reverse trike that uses the same build technique, steel spaceframe and silicone bonded and riveted aluminum panels. The sound was incredible. Now I didn't have a roaring turbo motor, just the electric whine but rocks, everything makes the aluminum vibrate various frequencies. I had to dampen it. The Fatmat is just peel and stick. From what I understand installation doesn't have to be perfect... It dampens sound pretty well and is easy to use. Everything that you may use is a compromise. I used it under the seats and then sprayed plasti dip over it to make a waterproof membrane... The rest of the interior will be vinyl or carpet. Not sure how to do the dead pedals, but their execution is too complicated. I may add a panel of aluminum to simplify that area...

[Frank818]

Pink wheels.
Something to do with breast cancer?

[RM1SepEx]

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No, my 17 yr old daughter chose the color, when she drove to school she received negative comments, my wife chose to swap them onto her Miata... I have 3 of them

sorry about the extra thumbnail... don't know what I did!

[Frank818]

You probably uploaded a pic you didn't want to show up and then you deleted it. I noticed when I delete pix they go down in the extra thumbnails and are... not deleted! And I have to re-do my post or something like that.

[Erik W. Treves]

Dan, your muffler placement is going to make the rear wheel well aluminum mounting pretty fun. The windshield frame needs to be trimmed to allow the hood to closed. I did mine on both sides and it clears fine. 80 grit sand paper will knock down those edges in a hurry!

[RM1SepEx]

Your car was sold, so now no photos :rolleyes:

I'm holding off on welding it up... Like almost everything else in finishing the car its hard to tell what will interfere with something else.

[RM1SepEx]

Just picked up a neat little CF item on ebay yesterday... Bezel to go around dash instruments. I'll install it when I replace the eprom for mileage rest

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-Fiber-Gauge-Dash-Bezel-Honda-Civic-01-04/111343333467?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3 D1%26asc%3D20131230161411%26meid%3D675473620425997 5980%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D20131230161411%26rk%3D 6%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D121333292518

[RM1SepEx]

What a beautiful day here in Maine today! 60's and partly sunny

Fixed tractor governor on the little troy built, finished up install of the 50 inch deck on the JD 318 Now Dani is ready for her mowing jobs!

Back to the fun stuff! Working on the body install. Cut and trial fit 1 x 1 aluminum angle to hold the fenders together and support the rear of the engine cover.

Cut the corners of the engine cover for clearance and started sanding down the edge of the engine cover return

Found a couple more small voids along the top of the rear fenders :(

rough grit paper takes it down pretty quickly, BUT my 30 year old sander died!

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I'm either going to add three two inch long adjustable "clamps" along the aluminum angle to hold down the back of the engine cover or use 3 Dzus fittings to hold it down. Add that to the two along the inside edge in the front and the engine cover will have no exposed hood pins.

[Canadian818]

I really like that, I think the Dzus fittings would be more user friendly.

[RM1SepEx]

Finally an update with some photos!

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Based on other inputs I tried several methods of cutting down the returns to make the lips sit flush with the side fenders, front and rear. You need to make these lips approx 1/2 deep. I ended up using my 4 inch angle grinder with an 1/8 thick abrasive cut off wheel to make the cuts, used it to grind to fit too. I cleaned up any uneven areas with my new palm sander and 36 grit paper.

You also have to cut and grind the area of the fender that sits on top of the headlight "eyelid" so that you can position the fender to line up on the side with the nose and the front with the nose. I'm not quite done there, my front fenders are a bit short of the front clip. I had to cut off some of the shelf for the hood and relieve the fiberglass so that the fenders would sit down over the headlights

I added a fender support from Craig H (Mechie3) that is attached as a part of the hood pin bracket for the rear of the hood. If you raise the rear of the fender slightly you can get a better area where the hood and fender meet at the windshield

Before final alignment I need to repair the gelcoat and fiberglass in the following areas:

entire front and rear fender edge where it meets the hood, engine cover and trunk

rear corners of the front clip where it meets the fenders and the rear fenders where it meets the rear clip. I'll need to build up those areas with epoxy and gel coat as there is a bunch of material essentially missing.

The engine cover is bowed up a bit in the center. I found that it has to if you wish it to align well with the trunk as the trunk needs to be bowed a bit to match the rear clip. The rear clip/trunk gap is an issue as it increases in the center, the center of the rear clip needs to be pushed in and held in place... not sure how to do that???

I used Erik's posted info as a starting point. I removed about 1 inch from the center of the rear clip's lower portion to clear the transmission mount bolts. I enlarged the holes to 5/16 on the rear clip and rear fender bolts (2 holes each side as delvrd from FFR) I need to go a bit bigger to improve the rear trunk fit. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14325-THE-818-Body-install-thread)

I've been able to get gaps fairly equal at the thickness of paint sticks from ACE

I'm considering adding the old vinyl welting like the old VW bugs used to use where we bolt these panels together... Thin vinyl, small bead... Thoughts?

I'll be playing with the doors next!

[jontexas]

I think I will be taking any problem panels down to a local hot-tub manufacturer [there are at least a couple locally], and seeing if they will fix any problems up for a reasonable $$$.

Seems like they'd be used to refinishing etc.

[RM1SepEx]

More front end work today, trying to get that little extra space out where the tip of the fender meets the nose at the headlights.

Method:
I removed the headlights from the buckets. I attached the lower rear of the fenders to the side pods with Clecos. I was very careful to line up the body lines. I used a steel ruler to show the lines in the photos.

I next lined up the fender to nose pieces on the sides. I used multiple vice grips to hold them in place. I used a steel ruler again to get them aligned as well as possible.

I hung the nose of the two attachment points on the top of the radiator support. If I attempt to push the lower part of the nose to the radiator support it raises the nose off these pads. I chose to instead leave it on the pads. I tried both ways, this way stresses the fiberglass less. To attach the lower portion I needed to add a piece of 2 x 2 x 1/8 aluminum angle. Right now it is clamped in -place, I'll add nutserts to attach the lower nose to the angle and to attach the angle to the radiator support.

No matter what I do the fender to nose gap at that small point by the headlight will be about 1/4 inch. The rest of my gaps are 1/8. It's the best that I can do.

All that is remaining is to get the headlights to seat low enough that those points are at the right height. Right now they sit about 1/8 too high. I will clearance either the bucket or the bottom of the lights to get the fender to the proper height.

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[RM1SepEx]

In the following photos you can see how much I had to clearance the inside area of the nose to get it back enough to line up properly.

Once it is all bolted up I'll have 1/8 gaps everywhere except that little area where the fenders meet the nose at the headlights will be 1/4

You can also see the results of leaving several gallon containers on the trunk for a week. It has forced the trunk to have the curvature needed to match the rear clip. The rear clip still needs a slight push in to create a nice even gap for the trunk. The trunk sits in place well and the edges only pop up a 1/4 inch or so. When I started the flat trunk didn't really fit the trunk opening!

Getting closer!

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I did figure out this week that I can't bring J Lo (my 818S) to the open house, my Daughter graduates June 14th! :o for her :( for visiting FFR and seeing all those awesome cars and the community again!

[wallace18]

Your gaps look great. Nice work so far.

[Mechie3]

So you still have a gap neat where the door mirror and windshield meet?

[RM1SepEx]

So you still have a gap neat where the door mirror and windshield meet?

not working that yet but since I'm not using WRX mirrors I'll have to do something there! I want to add small wing windows like my Miatas and E30 BMW

Thanks Tom, taken quite a while, my panels were stored flat for 6 months, takes time and pressure to get them to sit in place well. I just wish that FFR did a better job with their fiberglass. I can't belkieve that after 15 years they still can't fill a mold properly and get a good gel coat finish. If the design makes it too difficult, then design and MFG need to work together and figure out what their capabilities are.

I wish I could just pound it out, but I'm not capable of doing that.

BTW just had an awesome autocross at the Brunswick Naval Air Station. The base closed and it took us years but we have FIVE events there this year on PERFECT concrete... Here's my best run in Frankenstein my Rotax DD2 shifter. I was 3rd in class and 3rd fastest overall. 7th in PAX with 98 participants... I was literally dead Monday, I'm very sore. After a day autocrossing I can't walk the next day! I used the lowest gearset and hit redline in 2nd so it was a 70 MPH max

43.303 http://youtu.be/Skk0g4uM2ZA

[AZPete]

Dan, what a beautiful bunch of concrete for autocross! I'm glad you had fun and did so well.
Most of all, thank you for documenting your body work. I'm not there yet but I'll be using your build thread as a crutch when I start hangin' fiberglass.

[RM1SepEx]

We have question but don't have the details of what people did until we ask and it dribbles out

You can't follow FFR directions, they won't get you anywhere but frustrated with a "beverage" in your hand!

My process has been pieced together from these snippets from others and Craig's little vimeos!

Looking at Photos Tom and Erik both had gaps like I do at the fender to nose point, I've been trying to get rid of it but I can't.

I was originally going to push to complete, now I've decided to do everything that I can by myself. There is no reason to rush it, and my health has degraded, I'm getting old and my MS is limiting how much I can do (2 2.5 hrs/day is my limit)

I just bought 5 yards of medical grade black vinyl to do my interior.

I also have a bunch of ideas for my center tunnel, I'm going to make it higher and make a custom center console. I need a cup holder for my water bottle filled with iced, low carb Monster energy drinks.

[nkw8181]

hmmm cup holder.... now that would be nice

[ehansen007]

FFR said they were going to make a video for the build to help everyone so I'm surprised there hasn't been anything yet after a year. I'll have to ask them about that. Most of the sequence of things in the manual makes sense but there is so much more instruction needed. I planned on doing a video of my body build but just wanted to get it done like most due to an event coming up of us so I passed. I ran into a lot of what you described and just re-finalized the front end and my gaps are much better even with the aftermarket headlights which were a serious pain. the rear trunk is a challenge as well and I sacrificed a large gap towards the front to minimize at the back. Doing a body on an FFR car is like doing a lot of things, it gets easier once you've done it and can wrap your head around it. Until then you will make mistakes. Having done a few of them I have some extra holes and elongated holes all over this car! Still, a build video would be huge.

[Mechie3]

I imagine the biggest issue with the manual is they built a car first, then wrote the manual second, but never did a true "follow this step by step" run down. Where I work, we have 1 person do the test setup and write the protocol. A second person does a dummy run through following everything explicity. If they forgot something as simple as writing "click save" and not "click File --> Save" we mark up the protocol so it can be corrected. It's too easy to take minor things for granted when you know the process but those that are new will get lost.

[metalmaker12]

Yea I been filling my mistakes lol. I am about to finally prime a batch of parts.

[RM1SepEx]

If you follow the manual in several areas it doesn't work, hell the first panel you rivet is an oops
the floor under the seats needs to be done AFTER the seat work is done
Brake line clips can be in wrong places
puke bottle needs to be moved, a panel goes there
Body fitment glosses over almost everything!

Craig, I used to develop new equipment, document the process, train the mechanics and operators, manage process quality
Our instructions had to meet military stds... can't forget anything. Takes tons of time to work through it blind to find all the holes!

[RM1SepEx]

hmmm cup holder.... now that would be nice

MY MS drugs add to my fatigue... my doctor offered to prescribe Adderal (speed, anphetamines) I prefer my choice of Monster every afternoon. I don't go anywhere w/o my 24 oz orange powder coated stainless steel water bottle! :o

[RM1SepEx]

next update:

drilled and inserted nutserts for front fender rear lower mount to sidepods. remember to use super glue on the inserts for extra strength

drilled and bolted front clip to radiator support, front fenders to front clip, front fenders to FFR hood support and hood pin mount

Drilled and tapped fender supports at rear hood pin mounts.

drilled fender to front clip points, 3 bolts per to keep them tight. I couldn't quite get 1/8 gaps but it is as close as I could get. It is important to relieve the headlight buckets and front clip to be able to push the nose back, I just found the place that gave me the best compromise for the best hood gaps and fender to clip alignment. I have a bunch of fiberglass and gel coat repair to do.

I'm concerned about my rear hood points and fender alignments... the two fenders don't share the same profile and my right hood point is broken. (was that way from FFR, taped inside a cardboard tube to avoid damage!)

Can someone send me photos of how they pulled this area together? I know Chris indicated that he relieved the windshield surround...

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I'm rethinking using a hinge and pins for the front of the hood, it is so lightweight I'm afraid it will get damaged. Perhaps I can reverse the hood pin idea and bond to the underneath of the hood, point a pin down and clip it through the FFR hood pin support bracket. Thoughts???

[Frank818]

Dan, I can't help you on that of course, but I can encourage, by saying that I have to admit, I share the deception of doing all these mods here and there on the body. :( Must be a pain. :(

[wallace18]

next update:

drilled and inserted nutserts for front fender rear lower mount to sidepods. remember to use super glue on the inserts for extra strength

drilled and bolted front clip to radiator support, front fenders to front clip, front fenders to FFR hood support and hood pin mount

Drilled and tapped fender supports at rear hood pin mounts.

drilled fender to front clip points, 3 bolts per to keep them tight. I couldn't quite get 1/8 gaps but it is as close as I could get. It is important to relieve the headlight buckets and front clip to be able to push the nose back, I just found the place that gave me the best compromise for the best hood gaps and fender to clip alignment. I have a bunch of fiberglass and gel coat repair to do.

I'm concerned about my rear hood points and fender alignments... the two fenders don't share the same profile and my right hood point is broken. (was that way from FFR, taped inside a cardboard tube to avoid damage!)

Can someone send me photos of how they pulled this area together? I know Chris indicated that he relieved the windshield surround...

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I'm rethinking using a hinge and pins for the front of the hood, it is so lightweight I'm afraid it will get damaged. Perhaps I can reverse the hood pin idea and bond to the underneath of the hood, point a pin down and clip it through the FFR hood pin support bracket. Thoughts???

Dan check my thread. I had to trim the rear of the hood and fender area. Also you may have to trim the fender for the door to open a good amount.

[RM1SepEx]

Tom, I went through EVERYONE's threads... NO detail at all... :(

[metalmaker12]

I will send you some closer images and a video if I can

[Mechie3]

I trimmed the lip on the fender the hood sits on. Used the fender braces to pull it back and up far enough that I didn't need to trim the hood.

[RM1SepEx]

How much higher than your hood braces did you go? An additional washer under the aluminum standoff? I've been considering that approach but haven't attacked the doors yet. I'm not sure how high you can go. Also look at my two last photos, the right fender is molded differently than the left. Can you post photos of your fender, hood, windshield area to compare? I'd love to see that shot on the other completed cars too. Tom indicated that he modified his fenders and hood in that area, Chris said he trimmed his windshield surround. I'm going to play with windshield position too...

I spent today doing brakes on the wife's caddy and replacing a drive belt on a lawn and garden tractor! now to clean up for photos, dinner. My daughter's senior prom tonite!

[Mechie3]

Didn't add anything to the mounts. It touched before I put the mounts there. I can take a photo later.

[Frank818]

I just got off the phone with Tony Zullo:

LCA mount issue

they need to fit UNDER the top bracket for correct suspension geometry, spacers and putting it on top will work but isn't as desirable. Putting them on top with no spacer distorts the aluminum LCA bushing and is DANGEROUS as over stressing aluminum results in stress failures.

So on my right side I need to simply bolt it up and align the bracket with no twisting stress and redrill the bushing. Correct bushing orientation is shown here and I've marked the bushing underneath. I'll put it on the milling machine and make the bolt hole an odd shape to fit. Right now it is off by about 1/2 the bolt. I've shaded the top so you can see where my hole lines up.
I apologize for the poor photos, I set lower res to avoid issues uploading

On my left side it is more complicated. First I need to remove about 1/2 inch of the vertical portion of the upper LCA mount. I've pointed to it with my finger in the second photo. This will allow the other end to align with the frames forward LCA mmounts. They changed the parts today, so I'm pretty sure any frame after this date won't have that issue. Next I need to jury rig a system to use a jack to spread the bracket so my mount will slide in. Again I'll have to "adjust" the hole either in the frame mount or the aluminum LCA bushing so that it aligns w/o stress.

Dan, so what you finally did is you machined the 4 tabs' holes to be bigger so they could fit the chassis bracket's holes?

[RM1SepEx]

nope

follow the thread and there are photos

summary: rear LCA mounts

right side, the inside bolt is used as is, the outside bolt needed to have the aluminum ground out for the bolt to align
left side, I cut the rear vertical from the mount back about 1/2 inch, could have done a bit less
then you use the inside bolt as is, the outside bolt hole I had to grind out the steel bracket to align with the aluminum. If you attempted the aluminum it would have been too close to the edge and weakened it. A cheap HF air grinder w/carbide die grinder bit worked well

I used big *** ss heavy washers to make sure I didn't have any issues with the "modified" holes

I had to do it like this to make sure that the front lower ball joints were aligned properly. This is very important as we are very tight vs the rear with tire clearance. I bought used STI arms vs WRX arms, I believe that they give you just a bit more caster... and therefore more tire clearance

I then did my broomstick test to make sure both sides were even. I was very concerned at the time because of a concurrent thread on a roadster with wheel placement problems side to side.

I still feel that FFR is remiss in not giving us a dimension to verify this critical ball joint placement. I asked so many times!

[Frank818]

Uhm, looks like FFR did not fix the fitting of these tabs, but there are many threads that don't mention any issues (Rasmus' for example).

I guess the goal is to minimize any aluminum stress as possible, so that means I may have to drill out 4 holes anyway.

I think I'll wait to install my spindles and shocks first, in order to make sure about the lower ball joints.

[RM1SepEx]

I don't understand your problem....

bushings won't line up at all?

[Frank818]

I don't understand your problem....

bushings won't line up at all?

Nope. As per pictures on my thread. All 4 of them don't, unless I seriously twist the alu LCAs.

[metalmaker12]

Nope. As per pictures on my thread. All 4 of them don't, unless I seriously twist the alu LCAs.

Send me pics and I can try to help also .

[BC Huselton]

Sorry to shift the subject, but I was searching your thread to find out how you managed to fill the fluid ports going into the Steering Rack at the Pinon side. There are 2 each 12 x 1.25 fittings...I believe that's the size and 1 each 15 x 1.50.

Could you tell me how you plugged them and where you sources the fitting if that is what you used? Nothing is said about this in the FFR manual that I can find.
Or, direct me to another post that I probably missed.

Thanks, BC

[RM1SepEx]

RTV, since I removed the seals there is no pressure, I just plugged them with rubber out of a tube... :o I'm pretty sure that's in there somewhere.

How is your build coming?

[BC Huselton]

Thanks, just getting parts ready and selling off other completed projects to make room for a Oct delivery!

Thanks, Again, BC

[Rasmus]

Worked on the shifter today, unhappy about the stock kit's clearance with the rear bodywork. I was able to get an inch add'l clearance playing around this afternoon

I took the stock Subaru shifter coupler and cut off both "ears" as close to the cylinder that has the double roll pin to hold it in place

I then flipped the FFR shift arm so that it's "ears" faced forward. Note it needs to be bent towards the front of the car quite a bit as you move the cable connections 1 inch forward and the bracket 1.5 inch forward.

Clearance the shifter coupler so that it sits as far to the right as possible, weld it to the FFR arm.

That leaves enough space between the coupler and the arm for a thinner 1/4 x 28 nut. Use locktite.

I drilled another hole in the shifter cable bracket that moves the bracket forward 1.5 inches (the existing bolt hole spacing)

I painted it up black and installed. Photos below from all angles. The shots from the left side show it in 1st and 3rd gears

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How did everyone center the 4 inch hole saw for the taillights?
Nice work. I'd previously thought of this but you got to it first. I like the way you think Dan.

[RM1SepEx]

Hack mechanic years as a MFG eng and consultant... all my close friends are engineers too and we bounce stuff around well. Simple is best and while I have frieds with milling machines etc my welder is easy to access.

I expect to have photos for my hood hinge up by early next week...

[RM1SepEx]

Hood hinge work

I made up two 1/8 steel brackets that attach using the 3 bolts on each side that go into the side of the headlight bucket

I twist the ends to have a surface vertical to the ground

I drilled a 1/4 hole for my hood hinge location. I used a piece of 1/4 inch rod to make sure everything was straight and lined up. I'll be welding nuts on the backside tomorrow

I then made two hinge plates for the bottom of the hood. I used some 1/4 thick, 2 inch wide, 1 inch web aluminum channel

I drilled them for bronze bushings, 1/4 ID, 3/8 OD with a flange

I'll be using a 1/4 stainless bolt for the pin, not the 1/4 rod shown in the photos, it is just an alignment tool

After welding the nuts I'll powder coat the steel brackets

I bent the aluminum channel to contour closer to the hood. I'll build up the area and bond the aluminum to the underside of the hood

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[Frank818]

G, is there something you didn't do on that body? :( Amazing patience...

[RM1SepEx]

the provided hood pins are UGLY IMO... this will look much better, with some slop in the holes I can adjust position for proper alignment

The rear is looking pretty good after using 5 - 7 gallons of various liquid containers to force the trunk to take the proper shape! Doors are next week, then after them I should be able to finalize body position and prep J Lo for autocross shakedown etc...

I just bought 5 yds of high grade black vinyl for the interior... I've sketched up a couple ideas for an improved center tunnel/console setup...

2 kids, one in college the other graduates 6-14-14 yup, open house day! Patience is well earned and cherished! Now I can focus on my 4th discrete life period with my wife...

[metalmaker12]

I actually like the hood pins, just my option though, looking good Dan.

[Rasmus]

Nice work on the hinges.

[AZPete]

Good work, Dan, on the hood hinge and the write-up. From the pre-order days I've vowed to not have pins holding body panels on - just too much like a kit car. I'm not there yet but will depend on your thread when I'm mounting body panels.

[RM1SepEx]

I just figured out that it's too easy for individual bolts to get misaligned, stressing the fiberglassed hood hinge interface... back to a shaft across to make sure that the hinges pivot along a common axis. I'll have to drill and cotter pin it I guess

[RM1SepEx]

As usual, I changed approach yet again! I ended up using a single hinge "ear" on my brackets. I used the shaft to get alignment but will be using bolts on each side upon completion. Right now my hinges are setting clamped vs the hood with 60 minute adhesive epoxy. I drilled several holes in the hinge surface where it mates with the hood. I shaped the surface to get good contact with the hood. After it is cured I'll flip the hood over and glass them in.

Been slow this week, I tweaked my back pretty well at an autocross last Sunday and this has been senior week for my daughter's HS graduation tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=z-3DnZTItKo&u=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNSNYdIB9zHE%26feature%3Dshare

I think that I may be getting too old and feeble to run this lot! It has several 1 foot wide cuts and patches in the surface, hit them wrong, UGH

[Triathletedave]

I found that on the bottom, both sides, the belt mounts are made with no obvious way to fit in the limited space. I think that I can make up some 90 degree adapter brackets to allow using the rear seat mount bolts to hold the latch belt assembly on the tunnel side (after bending the bracket straight, the hole position can't fit the space avail. with the 90 degree bend) On the outer side I can cut off the slight lip on the bracket and attach it to the seat belt bracket that allows the belt to slide as you move it across your lap.

as an alternative I could bolt them to the seat brackets but that wouldn't be very safe as they are only attached to the car through my sliders!

I also eventually plan on using the harness approach but I want to have the std. belts there in an as close to single donor build as possible.

It is amazing how much lower you get with the aftermarket seats!

Can you please post a few pics of the wagon seat belts installed. I'm having trouble visualizing what your final solution looked like.

[RM1SepEx]

I don't have the wagon belts, I have the CRAPPY sedan belts! UGH

Is your heavy firewall installed over the gas tank?

Go to the engine compartment, you need to drill from the engine compartment through the hole in the flat bracket that goes across the chassis up against the firewall. That is why the firewall is flat vs continuing up at an angle.

The wagon belt reel is installed inside the cockpit up against the firewall. The belt will go straight up and through the pivot that bolts to the bracket on the roll bar.

It then goes down to the lower pivot bracket. I had to install tabs onto the chassis for these, you can see them in my thread. They come welded in on the 818R

The other side get tricky, depending on the year of the seat.

If you have older seats, it just bolts where the seat pivots and it mounts to the seat bracket. I don't know what that looks like as I'm sure the wagon belts terminate differently. My 05 seats are another story, the bracket don't all attach at the pivot and the mechanism will destroy a belt, you need the plastic cover for belt protection. Mine are so wide I had to clearance the thick aluminum brace that holds the emergency brake cable or my seats wouldn't fit inside the cockpit.

It is sad to tell you but this is another one of those areas where FFR has been unresponsive and no help at all. As the seats vary by year and the brackets are different it come down to you doing what you feel is safe. I only mount where I have a nice thick bracket to the frame member. The forces in an accident can be incredible. You can't just bolt the seat belts to the seats, they are not strong enough.

I lowered my 05 seats about 1 inch beyond what they sent me after a looooong time and mannnny emails and phone discussions. (5 weeks between IDing that the first brackets didn't even line up, until the new ones that placed the seats 1 inch higher) I got no satisfaction or answers, just did it myself. I have 3 new tabs on the frame, 2 on passenger side, one on the drivers. The inside driver belt mount is on the seat pivot and seat mounting bracket. I had to do this because I added 3/4 tall sliders under the driver's seat and removed the angle bracket so my petite wife could drive it.

I'm not sure that they are very happy with me as I'm not happy with them.

I went to the open house last year. That body was straight and clean, I quote Dave Smith "this is right out of the mold, Tony spent a couple hours buffing it out." No F******* Way....

I tried to work out how the hell you are supposed to fix the GARBAGE body that I received and I was told that they don't give any inputs of tips on bodywork! This isn't supposed to need any!!!!!! "We gave those who what to do no paint gel coat to repair it if they ask"

UGH

[Aloha818]

I'm not sure that they are very happy with me as I'm not happy with them.

I went to the open house last year. That body was straight and clean, I quote Dave Smith "this is right out of the mold, Tony spent a couple hours buffing it out." No F******* Way....

I tried to work out how the hell you are supposed to fix the GARBAGE body that I received and I was told that they don't give any inputs of tips on bodywork! This isn't supposed to need any!!!!!! "We gave those who what to do no paint gel coat to repair it if they ask"

UGH

I feel your pain, literally!!!!

I've been priming/filling/sanding for weeks now.

How's your progress?

[RM1SepEx]

I honestly have no good approach to repair those areas and leave a gel coat finish... I need to fill some large areas with fiberglass and rough up and size to leave a "correct" thickness to fill with the gel coat. I can't do the work you have, my body will fail.

The voids and unfilled areas in the molds are unbelievable for a company that has been doing fiberglass for 15+ years!

So I've been avoiding the issue and working on other stuff... body mounting is coming along, sitting for months was a huge problem, DO NOT lay them flat! I'm happy with my simple hinges, doors and trunk soon, daughter's graduation and other stuff getting in the way.

I must have got up on the wrong side of the bed yesterday... my weeks of frustration working the seat mounting and belt issues set off my rant.

[Mechie3]

So I've been avoiding the issue and working on other stuff.

This is kind of where I am. I've been working on my lathe getting it ready to start churning out parts rather than mess with the body again. I needed a break.

[wleehendrick]

This is kind of where I am. I've been working on my lathe getting it ready to start churning out parts rather than mess with the body again. I needed a break.

It's summer now... the clock's ticking on open top season. You guys 'up north' better finish up and get em on the road while the weather's nice! My friends have been giving me crap for taking my time, but I know I can enjoy it year-round. ;)

[Hindsight]

DO NOT lay them flat!

The Roadster body is mostly one giant piece, so the use of a body-buck is so common that there are a lot of plans out there for the perfect shape. I haven't seen anything like this for the 818 since there are so many body panels. Given this, do you have any suggestion as to the best way to store the panels so they don't distort (yet aren't sitting on the frame and in the way)?

[RM1SepEx]

I'd try to hang them vertically

FFR told us we could lay them flat... WRONG

they sit on the body in several dimensions and they are far thinner than the roadster pieces. The hood, trunk and engine cover have an arc to them... I'm not sure if any orientation exists that wouldn't distort them

A bigger problem is the unfinished, broken corners and edges and the voids under the gel coat FFR doesn't have the fiberglass capabilities req for a no paint finish, even tho we were assured that it was at the open house in 2013

Add to that they don't do a very good job working with the customer to resolve the problems, tho they are very pleasant when they don't really answer your questions or resolve your problem.

[Hindsight]

That's a shame on the shoddy fiberglass...... guess I won't be running it white for long and there is more body work in my future than I thought.

I'll take your advance and hang them by some wires along a wall in my shed. Thanks for the input!

[CptTripps]

I was planning on plasti-dipping the whole thing for "year one" and then working on the body in earnest when the snow falls.

Sounds like that's not even an option if the body is that far off to begin with.

[RM1SepEx]

as you work on fitting the body the slight twists and turns "assist" you in identifying voids under the gel coat, they just pop and piss you off! :-( I need to use a high intgensity light on mine, looking for defects. Then the issue is how to repair them while leaving a "no paint" finish... I have some ideas but have not developed a technique.

next are the areas where for whatever reason the mold wasn't filled and the panel just stops in some misshapen manner. Mine has these at the edges of the nose where it meets the fenders and the rear fenders where they meet the rear clip. The area needs to be roughed up, built up with fiberglass matt (my first thought) to a level just below finish and then covered with gel coat and sanded to finish dimensions. I'm thinking that I can build up supports for the fiberglass matt using aluminum and wax paper as a simple release agent.

The next area is the ends of the hood, mine is broken on one end (they wrapped it and inserted it in a cardboard tube, so they knew it was broken when they packed it!) I think that with such a thin area I'll need to drill a hole and insert a hardwood peg as a base for the fiberglass to make it extra strong. Again it needs to be built up just below the desired shape and gel coated.

Lastly the upper rear corners of the fenders are not even close to the same shape. I'm not sure what I can do there, I want to see how the doors line up as Aloha818 indicated he had to add to the front edge of the door! If I need to do that I'll take a trip to FFR and see what I can do..

Back to wiring up my steering column and cruise control. I'll document it here soon, I've expanded on what AZPete has done with his.

[RM1SepEx]

Cruise Control install update:

30589 30590 30591 30592

30593 30594 30595

I attached the cruise control stalk above the key using one of the control mounts to the column and another screw on the other side of the cruise control stalk. The left lower mounting tab was removed for clearance.

Extensive removal of the plastic cover is required for clearance. I'll be making an extended cover to reach the dash as the FFR design leaves a couple inches of space to the dash and gauge pod

The wiring is pretty easy. Look up the Subaru wiring diagram for your year (thanks fate66!) you are replacing the clockspring (steering roll connector) by making the cruise stalk not rotate with the wheel. The solitary black wire from the cruise stalk is the horn. The NRG adapter has a brass ring in the back to provide a rotary contact surface. I'm using an old feeler gage for my contact. It is bolted through the black plastic remains of the control assy where the clock spring used to sit. The horn connection to the black wire is connected underneath. The feeler gage is bent to provide some surface contact force.

The other cruise control stalk wires are connected as the wiring diagram shows, in my case connector ST2 (flat connection to clockspring) and B68 (black plug to harness, other end is the other side of the clockspring, ST1)

B68 ST2
1 5
2 3
3 4
4 1
5 2

(Thanks AZPete!)

you can see that I now have a nice clean cruise location, easy to see and operate!

Blinker cancelling (again thanks AZPete) you need to attach the plastic cylinder to the NRG adapter. The diameter of the plastic piece is about .050 too large. You need to shim it somehow and attach it to the adapter. IMPORTANT: The cylinder needs to be oriented properly for it to cancel the signals rapidly. Looking at it from the driver's seat the extended portion of the cylinder must be to the left, centered as much as possible. I used a single screw to hold it in place. I used brass shim stock to shim the cylinder, anything would work, AZPete used aluminum tape I think.

Now questions, I need to extend my steering wheel closer to me, the controls are too close to my flat 007R wheel. I'm looking for how thick the two NRG quick release adapters are. I could make a custom spacer, I would do an inch to be comfortable.

Anyone out there can measure the thickness, I don't see it specified on any websites!

[Frank818]

Dan, about the NRG and s/w, I have the hub SRK-100H and quick release SRK-280NB and they are supposed to be the same length as the OEM s/w. If that is the measurement you need, let me know.

[RM1SepEx]

Frank

They have multiple quick releases, 3 versions of the regular one and a "thin" one, your's is version 2.8 apparently

Yes I need that measurement

[Frank818]

5 versions of the regular one, 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, 2.8 and 3.0. Yes it's the 2.8 I got.

I'll take a pic of the measure. They are not assembled yet but I guess measuring each and adding up should give the total length.

[RM1SepEx]

just put he quick release together, I need that thickness

5 versions, all still avail, holy S**** batman!

[ehansen007]

How did the front hood hinge system work out? I'm getting ready for that mod too.

[AZPete]

Dan, nice work on the cruise control. I'm amused that you are looking for an adapter to move your steering wheel further from the stalks because when I had the same problem a smart builder in Freeport, ME (sound familiar?) told me to get a 6x6 block of polyethylene from McMaster-Carr, drill it, and turn it to the diameter to fit. I got it, turned it, and it works perfectly! Do you remember your own suggestion? :D

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12759-FFR-Steering-wheel-installed

[RM1SepEx]

Pete, yes I do remember... I'm looking for what my options are before I commit to a strategy... how thick did you make your's?

the hood worked out OK, I ended up using a 1 inch long bushing and bolt on each side. I used a threaded rod to make sure that both sides were lined up to avoid binding. The hood is so damn flimsy tho... It needs some stiffening.

My next problem is I want wipers but I don't want to cut my hood. I still haven't seen good photos of what FFR did... I might just do it on my own. I have FFR's new hood support but it is too low... I think I'll put one in the center of the hood, adjustable. The hood fits better when it has arc in the center. I'm thinking that some sort of aluminum support ribs would help the hood. Right now I would need to hold it up with supports on both sides. It will need a tether to avoid getting caught by the wind and flipping too far/getting damaged

[Mechie3]

Hood support from FFR? Is this a new piece?

[RM1SepEx]

a piece of aluminum, covers hole for master cyl, has a piece of rubber on the top... they sent me one...

30611

[Jaime]

Any hope of getting the factory steering roll connector to fit in the adapter body? I would love to mount the cruise control switch in the extension instead of on the column.

[RM1SepEx]

Not the one I bought... it only provides for the horn

[carbon fiber]

as you work on fitting the body the slight twists and turns "assist" you in identifying voids under the gel coat, they just pop and piss you off! :-( I need to use a high intgensity light on mine, looking for defects. Then the issue is how to repair them while leaving a "no paint" finish... I have some ideas but have not developed a technique.

next are the areas where for whatever reason the mold wasn't filled and the panel just stops in some misshapen manner. Mine has these at the edges of the nose where it meets the fenders and the rear fenders where they meet the rear clip. The area needs to be roughed up, built up with fiberglass matt (my first thought) to a level just below finish and then covered with gel coat and sanded to finish dimensions. I'm thinking that I can build up supports for the fiberglass matt using aluminum and wax paper as a simple release agent.

818 BUILDERS - BEAT EVERY INCH OF THE BODY WITH A STIFF SHORT BRISTLED WIRE BRUSH IF YOU WANT TO FIND ALL THE VOIDS. You can use the light method too but both methods together is better. You can use cotton "flox" (ground cotton) to mix with the resin to fill the voids. It's available from composite supply companies. mix some VINYL ESTER OR POLY resin, and mix in a little flox at the time until you get a "wet" paste. Too dry and it wont bond inside the void. Tape around the void to keep from getting it on the good areas. As far as the no paint thing, forget it. You'll have an easier time prepping and painting it yourself than trying to fix all the voids to visually acceptable levels. Also guys, be careful putting these panels into too much bind with these supports, it could cause spider web cracks in the gelcoat. Maybe not at first, but after some miles they can pop up. Fiberglass should sit properly without being forced very much to avoid spider web cracks.

[Jaime]

Sure, but is it possible to remove their clockspring and fit the Subaru clockspring in its place?

[RM1SepEx]

Sure, but is it possible to remove their clockspring and fit the Subaru clockspring in its place?

NOPE, they don't use a clock spring, they use a rotating rear surface and a single spring loaded contact. Look at the last photo in my post above #723 that entire rear surface is a single contact hooked to the horn wire coming out the other side. If you short this to the steering shaft or the chassis the horn beeps

[Frank818]

just put he quick release together, I need that thickness

I hope that helps.

30620

[K3LAG]

Sure, but is it possible to remove their clockspring and fit the Subaru clockspring in its place?

The Works Bell hub will probably let you do what you want, but it is a good bit more expensive. Figuring out how to mount the switch on the hub will be the challenge though. It would have to be mounted to the hub behind the quick disconnect as the quick disconnect doesn't have anyway to pass the connections through. It's probably more trouble than it's worth, but then again so is a lot of other things we do on these cars. :cool:

Larry

[Jaime]

I was looking into that. I would really like to find a low-profile hub that fits over the stock clockspring. Then, I could machine my own spacer and put mounting points on it for the cruise switch.

[K3LAG]

I was looking into that. I would really like to find a low-profile hub that fits over the stock clockspring. Then, I could machine my own spacer and put mounting points on it for the cruise switch.

The Works Bell hub does fit over the stock clock spring. Look at the pictures in my build thread. We might want to move this discussion to the Suspension, Steering and Brakes forum so as not to clog up Dan's build thread.

Larry

[RM1SepEx]

Trunk hinges interfere with the engine cover, both sides! you can see in the photo where my nice new black paint has been worn off the silver hinges when adjusting the hinges. It holds up the trunk and engine cover on my left side.

So to those ahead of me did you grind the trunk hinge stops off? They hit the engine cover on both sides and bind if the engine cover is held down. In my case the left side appears to be quite a bit higher than the right...

30749 30750

BTW a closer look at the manual shows the stop tab ground off... Why do I have a big problem only on one side????

[RM1SepEx]

Next question, doors:

manual states that you use Subaru screws to mount latch mechanism, you can't the M6 x1mm x 20mm? screws are too short, another place says use supplied screws, I didn't get any... so how long did you get/buy, I think 35 MM would do it

next, did you use the front door latches or back door latches, manual doesn't say

did anyone keep their power door lock mechanisms?

did anyone eliminate the aluminum plate on the outside of the door skin at the latch, or countersink it, the screws will stick out quite a bit with those small holes

Thanks in advance

[Mechie3]

I countersunk and bought grade 10 equivalent metric flatheads. Forget the metric designation. I can look for the bag and part number later. I kept the power lock but stupidly cut the pigtail off the harness.

[RM1SepEx]

front or rear latch mechanism

did you keep the outer plates?

what about your trunk hinges???

[Mechie3]

Kept the plates. I countersunk them. Don't remember which mechie3. I matched the colors of the plastic pieces. Didn't do trunk yet.

[RM1SepEx]

I ground off the tabs, fitment just keeps getting better, I think forcing them into position them having them sit in place really helps. They distort quite a bit out of the mold, they are damn thin.

I need to add a brace like Chris and Wayne did to pull in the rear clip to get a more even gap, hoping to integrate it with an aluminum trunk.

none of my latch mechanisms match the ones in the manual... still not sure which are correct or what rods to use.

Hopefully ACE will have the screws tomorrow, metric assortment can be slim, worst case another McMaster order!

Frustrating how many trips and orders I've had to make for an all inclusive, every bolt included kit!

BTW, I've decided to make a targa hoop over the roll bar to move out the sides and facilitate a much simpler top assembly. It needs to fit in the trunk and be able to be setup in a couple minutes. I also want wing windows attached to the doors, makes a huge difference in cockpit air buffeting

[Aloha818]

I ground off the tabs, fitment just keeps getting better, I think forcing them into position them having them sit in place really helps. They distort quite a bit out of the mold, they are damn thin.

I need to add a brace like Chris and Wayne did to pull in the rear clip to get a more even gap, hoping to integrate it with an aluminum trunk.

none of my latch mechanisms match the ones in the manual... still not sure which are correct or what rods to use.

Hopefully ACE will have the screws tomorrow, metric assortment can be slim, worst case another McMaster order!

Frustrating how many trips and orders I've had to make for an all inclusive, every bolt included kit!

BTW, I've decided to make a targa hoop over the roll bar to move out the sides and facilitate a much simpler top assembly. It needs to fit in the trunk and be able to be setup in a couple minutes. I also want wing windows attached to the doors, makes a huge difference in cockpit air buffeting

I had followed the manual on the trunk hinges without issue, I'll look again to see if I have an issue. On my doors I bought new screws, countersunk, did not use the FFR aluminum cover plates, and used the latches and catches from the front doors of the donor.

When I get to the trunk aluminum (custom) I will also use part of the structure to pull in/strengthen the top middle of the rear bumper.

Looks like your still moving forward!

[RM1SepEx]

I ground the hinges so that they are flat across the level of the rivet that makes up the hinge pivot. You need to do this in both the down and up position. This leaves me 1/8 clearance from the engine cover, no interference to rub. I rtouched up my black chassis paint job.

I also mounted my first door frame, I used a layer of fiberglass cut from my body and a paint stick on the bottom and a paint stick, two aluminum latch plates and a layer of fiberglass (.375) in the latch area. This will put my striker in the correct location for final door fitting. I used the hinge door stop as described, the door opening is only about 18 inches... is that correct?

[RM1SepEx]

doors are a PITA

I spaced up my doors, mounted everything up, drivers door hinge stop works, pass door opens WIDE :mad: door stop doesn't contact the hinge.

My door frames are all the way forward no way that you can mount the latch to the body and hold any sort of thin door gaps, they stick out more than my 1/8 gap, I can shut the door just barely and there isn't a door skin sandwiched in!

So I obviously need to mount them higher... looking at the latch position in the manual the steel support for the top front of the door and mirror brace would hit the windshield! They are 1/2 inch higher than mine

UGH

can someone do some open and closed door photos of a completed car? Has anyone written up a door hanging instruction guide that can actually work?