RM1Sepex Build Thread

[RM1SepEx]

Just got my call, apparently a couple people dropped out. I moved my date up from August 10 to July 27! Can't wait to go from my Copart 05 WRX roll over to the 818! let the fun begin!

I chose to start with only the powder coat frame option and requested that the door frames be coated too... unsure if they are included w/PC frame option but they won't fit in my oven!

I'll attempt to build a close to stock example so others have a baseline. The only non stock parts right now:

Ceramic coated header and catless up pipe from AJW
Lighter flywheel (been a while don't remember how light off the top of my head)
STI LCAs
Adjustable steel rear transverse links

let the fun begin!

19059

Dan

[wleehendrick]

Just got my call, apparently a couple people dropped out. I moved my date up from August 10 to July 27!

Awesome! I haven't got a call yet, but my date's in October, hopefully the production ramp-up goes smoothly and I get moved up as well.


I'll attempt to build a close to stock example so others have a baseline.

Good luck... I'll be watching! My build will also be close to stock (based on a stock 06 WRX wagon donor). The only upgrades I plan, besides wheels/tires, are for the interior.

[Mechie3]

Just got my call, apparently a couple people dropped out. I moved my date up from August 10 to July 27!

Dan

Hopefully they dont think I dropped out since no one has called.

[Samiam1017]

My delivery date is aug 30. I guess I should expect a call soon. Hopefully 15 days early too!

[Frank818]

Nice RM1!! Let's see how it come up, July 27th is pretty close!

[projectrally]

Can't wait to see it, Dan. I was down there shooting on Friday and Saturday, and I got to spend a bit of time with the car. It's got me excited for my build as well. Now you should have a pretty good chance of making it to Loring!

What are you doing for wheels and tires? Are you running the stock WRX wheels off the donor vehicle at first, or were those trashed?

[RM1SepEx]

Hey Adam, I wanted to get a hold of you... video?

I'm going very stock to start. I have a full set of wheels thanks to a generous forum member, one was toast from my donor, the driver side front had a crunched wheel, the rack and the lower control arm.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to PC them semi gloss black. I got two new Dirrezas in 225 wide to go with the donor's 205s. The car will be white and black wheels, windshield frame, roll bar, seats etc with orange vinyl graphics. Working with Jake D to do some graphics and laser work. I'll turn custom centers for the wheels for example. PC the rear trans cover and laser it with graphics as well.

I need to talk with Mad Dog to pick up the digital Factory 5 graphics etc...

I'll be able to scale and dyno as a baseline than enjoy developing the car over time as an ongoing engineering project. Many have asked what a basic build would look like, I should be able to answer that question. Long term wheels, seats?, belmouth, tgv delete, CF aero add ons? who knows???

BTW Ian asked about getting the 90/94 hybrid Miata running this weekend... the projects just keep coming! LOL

[metalmaker12]

Hopefully they dont think I dropped out since no one has called.

Don't feel bad they have not confirmed with me yet either

[RM1SepEx]

I hit a bit of a snag today, I had surgery to reattach my right retina

1 week laying down on my left side

1 month to full vision, light duty/lifting

sound be back to full capability by delivery but no autocrossing for a while...

[Mechie3]

Wow...

That is a little bit of a snag. What did you do?

[FFR-ADV]

I hit a bit of a snag today, I had surgery to reattach my right retina

1 week laying down on my left side

1 month to full vision, light duty/lifting

sound be back to full capability by delivery but no autocrossing for a while...

I hope you feel better soon!

[Silvertop]

I hit a bit of a snag today, I had surgery to reattach my right retina

1 week laying down on my left side

1 month to full vision, light duty/lifting

sound be back to full capability by delivery but no autocrossing for a while...

A BIT of a snag?!! I'd say! Get better fast!! I plan on going to school on your build (and others). Seriously, though, best of luck on your recuperation.

[Xusia]

Oh my gosh! Yeah, I'm sorry to hear about that, and wish you a speedy recovery.

I've had eye surgery too, and would offer this advice: Eyes heal very well - as long as you don't muck it up, so follow the post op instructions religiously and to the letter - as if your life depends on it. If you do, you'll have a great result. :)

[longislandwrx]

feel better soon!

[bromikl]

Sorry to hear that. Hope you're back in the seat soon.

[Frank818]

That's really bad, I hope it heals quickly but most of all, heals PERFECTLY.

[RM1SepEx]

my left eye had a grand tear (just under 50% around 2.5 hrs to laser back in place) in Oct of 2011... it healed very well... I'm a good patient. This one took 1.5 hrs in my right eye. I can put my head in more positions this time...

I've had cataract surgery and have severe myopia (-7.5 diopters) so I'm a strong candidate. He stiched around the entire area likely to tear during both operations so I'm unlikly to have other problems.

Thank God for medical insurance, my bills will easily exceed $200,000 this year...

[anejo99]

I feel for you. I too had a partially torn retina a couple of years ago - thank God it was caught before it fully tore. Glad to hear yours is doing well.

The worst was the keeping the head down (they put a gas bubble in my eye to 'hold' the retina in place), thus I had to sleep face down too... worst 2 weeks of my life. :)
Hope you feel better and get back in gear soon.

[metalmaker12]

my left eye had a grand tear (just under 50% around 2.5 hrs to laser back in place) in Oct of 2011... it healed very well... I'm a good patient. This one took 1.5 hrs in my right eye. I can put my head in more positions this time...

I've had cataract surgery and have severe myopia (-7.5 diopters) so I'm a strong candidate. He stiched around the entire area likely to tear during both operations so I'm unlikly to have other problems.

Thank God for medical insurance, my bills will easily exceed $200,000 this year...
Get well soon my friend I still need to meet lol.

[dougkirkbride]

Awesome! I haven't got a call yet, but my date's in October, hopefully the production ramp-up goes smoothly and I get moved up as well.



Good luck... I'll be watching! My build will also be close to stock (based on a stock 06 WRX wagon donor). The only upgrades I plan, besides wheels/tires, are for the interior.


i too have a 2006 wrx wagon, mine has 135K been well taken care of a single owner woman, no mods at all. i dont plan any upgrades till i build the street stock 818. that will give me a baseline. hopefully starting my teardown this weekend. my shipdate isnt till march 2014.

[Oppenheimer]

So what, you are typing to us laying on your left side with one eye closed?

As much as we want to see how well the stock-ish 818 comes out, we want to see you come out seeing well. So heal first. Don't push it.

[RM1SepEx]

1/2 hr lay to left
15 min upright
15 min face down
NO lying to the right side

Much better than last time 2 weeks, lying on right side except for bathroom, travel to doctor etc... 99% on right side...

I value my 20-10 vision highly...

[Silvertop]

1/2 hr lay to left
15 min upright
15 min face down
NO lying to the right side

Much better than last time 2 weeks, lying on right side except for bathroom, travel to doctor etc... 99% on right side...

I value my 20-10 vision highly...

Doesn't that make sleeping a little difficult?

[Mechie3]

I would have to be strapped to a board to prevent from rolling over and messing things up.

[D2W]

This is certainly a different kind of build thread. Hope you heal up properly.

[bstuke]

Dang Dan. Hang in there. That WRX looks a bit worse than mine.

I am still slowly getting it torn down. Mostly interior work the last couple of days. Saturday will be the big engine removal day. Wife will be gone, and I can get an early start when it is still cool.

I certainly hope things are moving in a positive direction.

[RM1SepEx]

There is a ton of stuff on my disassembly in the working on the donor thread... it is a series of 4 of us taking apart our donors, questions, etc...

I can sleep on my back or my side... any position other than the right side... I just watched tomorrow never dies... I'm working through my bond dvds and netflix series while lying on my left.... :-)

I have the bolts lined up to show what they look like after my de-rust treatment but can't find the camera!

I expect that until I pick up my kit this thread will be inactive. And yes I have had an interesting two weeks... My dad passed away last tuesday... my eye "flashed" a couple times thursday and I woke up Monday with a torn retina...

At least a couple hrs after my eye screwed up I got my call and was able to move up two weeks...

Dan

PS yes my WRX wastotally messed up, only the left passenger door wasn't damaged! $1850 plus shipping and fees from CoPaert with 70k isn't too bad tho. I've sold almost $1300 of parts not used.

[RM1SepEx]

Going down to Wareham this AM for kit pickup! Can you say PUMPED!

[metalmaker12]

You leave yet, good luck, and make sure you have tissues !!!!

[wallace18]

Good luck and God Speed. I am going up on the 19th for mine.

[longislandwrx]

Have fun!

[Mechie3]

Pumped!


Do I win a prize?

[Stickshift84]

Have fun!!! and good luck.

[blueoval_bowtie_guy]

Have a great time!

[RM1SepEx]

Serial # 17 is home... (13th customer car)

Easy process loaded directly onto my 3 x 5 roller dolly in the trailer with a boom extension on their forklift (edit for correct dolly size, easy to strap it down 818 floor is open tubing)

Only significant BO is the trans cover and the axles

all CF aero pieces are BO as are the interior door panels

unpack and inventory, sort for powder coating tonight/tomorrow

8.5 x 16 trailer had plenty of room for the car and the 9 boxes (i think its 9...)

2023920236202402023720234202412023820235

[bstuke]

Awesome!

[Silvertop]

Struggling with kit envy..........:)

[metalmaker12]

Nice

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I'm literally starting to shake with excitement.
My kit is ready next week, but I can't get it until the 12th.
Thanks for the shipping pictures. I hope all mine fit.


What is wrapped up laying on the hood in the passenger compartment?
Bob

[68GT500MAN]

Now the fun begins!

[RM1SepEx]

I'm literally starting to shake with excitement.
My kit is ready next week, but I can't get it until the 12th.
Thanks for the shipping pictures. I hope all mine fit.


What is wrapped up laying on the hood in the passenger compartment?
Bob

fenders in bubble wrap

Update:

1 box left to inventory, no discrepancies so far... Last box is full of laser cut aluminum pieces...
I need to verify all the pre installed aluminum and the body parts too but those are a piece of cake!
I've sorted everything out for powder coating, a friend will powder coat w our in house equip, while waiting he can pre assemble some stuff like shocks, drill LCA for shock mounts and drill brake pedal
Completion of all PC... Saturday?

I'll clean aluminum pieces going on first and apply sharkhide to both sides and get them riveted in this weekend. I want to use all 2 inch spacing. I have an air riveter so it goes fast

My donor suspension pieces are ready to go so as soon as the brackets etc are PC I can install.

should be a busy weekend! Goal: aluminum and suspension done

BTW I just noticed the number of cars in the driveway... Including the 818 there are 3 in the garage... my daughter and my wife were both gone, each in a Miata (green and silver) and 2 cars were out of the frame... AND I was home with no company! No wonder my daughter wants to organize an intervention... I have 2 close friends with more vehicles than me too... (and less drivers as well)

[RM1SepEx]

Removed panels, completed inventory start actual build after dinner! I have about 8 hrs into it already

We get tons of parts, including the short ribbed belt for the alternator...

Parts are being powder coated, will have some of them back tomorrow, the rest on Sunday, this includes every bare metal piece in the kit inc. spacers for shocks etc...

I put some plywood across my 4 post lift as a temp home for the fiberglass panels

I keep getting interrupted by friends........................................... .................................................. ..................................... oops stuck keyboard button!

[projectrally]

I know you're too busy actually doing the build on this car for Loring, but man do I want to see more updates! Can't wait to see the progress, Dan.

[flytosail]

As the closest build to me so far, it is great to see that you are powdercoating and/or sharkhiding your AL parts. I was wondering about the New England weather in regards to corrosion.

[RM1SepEx]

20306203032030420305

I'm currently drilling the fire wall panels. I decided to powder coat them due to how they go together and the areas where you have to seal with silicone.

Just ordered black rivets and two tubes of black dow corning

The manual directions don't work for me. I found it easier to do them in place. Marking holes with my click type center punch. Rivets every 2 inches

FYI you def need a 90 degree drill to get in some places.

note that I tilted the windshield to drill for the top rivets

Now to remove about 30 clecos and drop them off at Mark's for black powdercoat

[07FIREBLADE]

What type of silicone is the manual calling for the build? And your car is coming along well cant wait for more updates.

[GUNS]

20306203032030420305

I'm currently drilling the fire wall panels. I decided to powder coat them due to how they go together and the areas where you have to seal with silicone.

Just ordered black rivets and two tubes of black dow corning

The manual directions don't work for me. I found it easier to do them in place. Marking holes with my click type center punch. Rivets every 2 inches

FYI you def need a 90 degree drill to get in some places.

note that I tilted the windshield to drill for the top rivets

Now to remove about 30 clecos and drop them off at Mark's for black powdercoat

You have a manual? I want a manual.

[cmcintyre]

How do you get rid of the printing (Alcoa etc) on the aluminum panels you will only be covering in Sharkhide?

[RM1SepEx]

Get a kit, get access to the preliminary manual... Can't share, sorry

AL Panels brake cleaner, acetone, paint prep from eastwood... any solvent will clean them right up.

When I'm done there won't be that much to see... I've got a big roll of the adhesive rubber and aluminum sound deadening stuff, (fatmat?) and then there will be some sort of vinyl interior. My brother and I traded a Saturday of work for an industrial post machine when I was in college. We worked converting old MFG equipment from the old leather belts run off wheels in the river at the mill to electric motors. This thing will sew thin plywood, leather, shoe soles etc... Hell it could be over 100 years old, we have had it for almost 40!

They don't specify quality of the adhesive... go to mcmaster.com they carry 3 grades...

We coyuld do pages discussing the theory of these panels and construction.

My thoughts based on my engineering degree and race car design and mfg. The tubular frame AND tyhe aluminum sheets carry the loads to the chassis. Each 1/78 rivet can hold between 100 and 150 lbs in shear. The silicone helps to hold them together and helps to avoid squeeks. Th manual specs drilling the holes off the frame based on marking the tube and overlap locations. First this doesn't assure good final alignment where panels meet. Second some areas you drill through the panel but when on the car there is no way to drill the tube. They then have you put adhesive on the back where it meets the tube and position it over the location desired and drill the final holes and rivet through the squished silicone. This leaves drilling tailings in the completed joint and if it takes a long time the silicone can partially set during assembly.

I positioned and drilled everything in place and used clecos to hold them in position. when all holes are drilled. (my status right now. ) I pull the panels off and clean up everything with a shop vac and solvent. I'mn going to powder coat the panels and will need to pass a 1/8 drill through every hole. Then I apply the silicone and position the panel with clecos and then rivet. Riveting goes quick and you get a consistent seal and clamping. Do NOT drill bigger holes, that reduces the strength of the combined panel. Just like a unibody car every attached piece adds something to the rigidity of the chassis and we want the combined structure to carry the strees, not allow the tubes to distort a few thousanths and then have the rivet side to the edge and now add the panel strength top the assembly. TYou may need to reinsert a drill on a random hole but if you use the clecos you cabn get the panels to set down very repeatably along the holes. My trike has over 1100 rivets and no more than 4 or 5 required another pass with a drill bit.

[GUNS]

I have a kit, where do you get access? That would be incredibly helpful.

[Mechie3]

If you have the kit in hand email Joe Scott at FFR. He'll send you a link. There's two areas I would have done differently. One of them worked out. The other I don't like but its done. I'll post pics later to assist others.

[GUNS]

If you have the kit in hand email Joe Scott at FFR. He'll send you a link. There's two areas I would have done differently. One of them worked out. The other I don't like but its done. I'll post pics later to assist others.

Thanks mechie, I've been waiting to do too much without the manual. Hoping I have already messed anything up, but I should be good.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

[Mechie3]

Found another "doh". The passenger firewall panel that is on the inside ends up mounting flush against the passenger side dead pedal. Interestingly enough, the manual only shows assembly for the driver side, no mention of the passenger side (it is a beta manual). When the passenger dead pedal is installed, you cover up the previous holes you made. I was able to mark them well enough to drill through and line them up, but the top one was off too much (on the edge of the panel).

[RM1SepEx]

will be covered anyway... :-)

Looks like we are at the same spot! I started playing with the suspension as my firewall will be powder coated tomorrow... built up my shocks and LCAs

[Xusia]

Get a kit, get access to the preliminary manual... Can't share, sorry

AL Panels brake cleaner, acetone, paint prep from eastwood... any solvent will clean them right up.

When I'm done there won't be that much to see... I've got a big roll of the adhesive rubber and aluminum sound deadening stuff, (fatmat?) and then there will be some sort of vinyl interior. My brother and I traded a Saturday of work for an industrial post machine when I was in college. We worked converting old MFG equipment from the old leather belts run off wheels in the river at the mill to electric motors. This thing will sew thin plywood, leather, shoe soles etc... Hell it could be over 100 years old, we have had it for almost 40!

They don't specify quality of the adhesive... go to mcmaster.com they carry 3 grades...

We coyuld do pages discussing the theory of these panels and construction.

My thoughts based on my engineering degree and race car design and mfg. The tubular frame AND tyhe aluminum sheets carry the loads to the chassis. Each 1/78 rivet can hold between 100 and 150 lbs in shear. The silicone helps to hold them together and helps to avoid squeeks. Th manual specs drilling the holes off the frame based on marking the tube and overlap locations. First this doesn't assure good final alignment where panels meet. Second some areas you drill through the panel but when on the car there is no way to drill the tube. They then have you put adhesive on the back where it meets the tube and position it over the location desired and drill the final holes and rivet through the squished silicone. This leaves drilling tailings in the completed joint and if it takes a long time the silicone can partially set during assembly.

I positioned and drilled everything in place and used clecos to hold them in position. when all holes are drilled. (my status right now. ) I pull the panels off and clean up everything with a shop vac and solvent. I'mn going to powder coat the panels and will need to pass a 1/8 drill through every hole. Then I apply the silicone and position the panel with clecos and then rivet. Riveting goes quick and you get a consistent seal and clamping. Do NOT drill bigger holes, that reduces the strength of the combined panel. Just like a unibody car every attached piece adds something to the rigidity of the chassis and we want the combined structure to carry the strees, not allow the tubes to distort a few thousanths and then have the rivet side to the edge and now add the panel strength top the assembly. TYou may need to reinsert a drill on a random hole but if you use the clecos you cabn get the panels to set down very repeatably along the holes. My trike has over 1100 rivets and no more than 4 or 5 required another pass with a drill bit.

Any chance you could do a video on the process? For those of us that have never done riveting? :)

[RM1SepEx]

nope... time constraints... lucky i take time for some photos and I junk the ones that don't come out, don't bother to retake them.

I use a broken tape measure to space them out... it's rigid, straight and thin. Mark the holes with 3-4 pops of the center punch for good bit placement. remember it doesn't need to be perfect... I use a cheap harbor freight air riveter... some will need to be done by hand due to space constraints. sometimes you need to juggle a couple by a 1/4 inch or so to make it look even etc... I bought like 40 of those 1/8 TI coated, double ended shorty bits... took only 2 points for the firewall... (one double ended bit)

Just remember clean up everything and use plenty of clecos and alignment will be a piece of cake. I'd buy at least 25 1/8 inch clecos. You want the aluminum to squeeze tight with the silicone as thin as possible. The std household stuff will be just fine. I'm sure that car is plenty stiff with just the tubing but why not make it as stiff as possible and avoid squeeks down the road?

[Mechie3]

I have 25 clecos. 50 would be better. I'm leapfrogging to have enough to go around. I started suspension but I'm missing too many parts or require pieces that need to be powder coated. I've been spacing them by putting the ends 1/2 inch in then dividing g the remaining distance evenly. Most come out close to 2.75 to 3". Where panels line up I mark them to match the panel next to it. I'm going to have to fill in a few of the shipping mounting holes because they didn't line up with my marks.

[Samiam1017]

Are the rivets included and if so what are they? And if not what are you using?

[flytosail]

Depending on one's level of OCD, they make a rivet spacing tool for airplane home builders.

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee403/flytosail3/f466b1301c94e22ede1030e189620454_zps06637f94.jpg

[RM1SepEx]

LCA Bushing issue

I made up some 1/4 spacers to move the other bushing arm up over the bracket, just wouldn't work otherwise... I think Factory 5 has a frame jig issue...
here is what I sent to them...

After playing around a bit... I’ve determined that Factory 5’s frame jig is off...

Left side, the upper bracket is too low and forward for the rear aluminum LCA bushing mount. The manual indicates that the bushing should go under the top mount. It can’t as it is about 1/16 – 1/8 inch too low. It is also too far forward, even if it was the right height putting it there would not allow the front LCA pivot to fit into the frame tabs. See 1st attached photo

My solution: I am making up some nice 1/4 inch this spacers that match the footprint of the bushing to position it above the top bracket. This does move the rear pivot up 1/4 inch. See 2nd attached photo

The right side has a different issue, the bracket is at the correct height, see the 3rd photo, however the position of the upper and lower brackets result in the holes not being able to be aligned. See photo 4

My solution, same as the other side, use a 1/4 spacer. See photo 5 Note based on how you need to deflect the bushing on the left side it is the lower bracket that is off a bit causing the bolt hole misalignment.

The bushing must go under by design to allow using the shorter wagon control arms, some customers will need to be more creative to resolve their issue, most likely with cutting and welding a nice powder coated frame.

Thoughts?

2037520374203732037220371

note the photos were made with 1/4 chunks of AL to prove concept, I now have some in my hands made on a bridgeport, mnatching the bushing's footprint that will look nice. If you just bolt them down on the top of the brackets you will bend and distort the bushing... you can see that on page 79 of the manual, when the busghing is shown on the top (even though they earlier show it on the bottom) you can see it sits on an angle...

sorry the photos are not in order...

[metalmaker12]

I don't see the need, get to fit and bolt it in dan

[Mechie3]

What arm? Steel or Aluminum?

[RM1SepEx]

if you have the shorter arms you have to cut and grind, you can't slide the bushing in farther to the other hole. That is a shame on a freshly powder coated frame. I wouldn't be happy if it was me. That's why they were designed to go under. We have also slightly modified the geometry, I'd have to review my suspension design books again to figure out exactly what, I just don't feel it's a big deal for us. It needs to be fixed so future people don't have the issue and have to run around to make spacers or just stress them because the don't line up! Some people won't find it as easy to make spacers as it is for us...

we did sign up early to be ginea pigs!
Just my engineering background coming out, I want it to be right!

[Mechie3]

Wayne bolted his on top. On a stock wrx, if you remove the knuckle the arm doesnt drop down. If you push it down it has a lot of resistance and springs back up because the bushing is binding.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/WRXparts/P1020166_zps7f8809ef.jpg (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/vcpinjectionpb/media/WRXparts/P1020166_zps7f8809ef.jpg.html)

[metalmaker12]

What arm? Steel or Aluminum?

Aluminum, I will post mine, there bolted in like Wayne's

[RM1SepEx]

Mine are aluminum too and I had to bolt them on the top. As far as I can tell every existing 818 build has them on the top, yet the cad drawings and technical directions along with the dual use of the brackets demands that the design have them under. You can not mount the bushings over the outer holes for shorter arms on the top without some serious cutting.

[metalmaker12]

Oh the directions, yea I don't use them much, but yea you have to mount on top, as far as I can see.
Here my pics, you can see on the right arm I cut the thread down to clear the panel
20378203792038020381

[RM1SepEx]

Aluminum or steel does not matter, tho mine are aluminum, they are known to be interchangeable. The bushings vs the bracket is what matters... Factory 5 designed them to go in between the two brackets. Look at the cad drawing on page 71. In my world the engineer's drawing is the bible. Your parts should be oriented and positioned as they are in that drawing. I don't think Jim drew it that way with no purpose. If it sits on top you can not use the outer holes for shorter arms.

one page 79 it states: The rear of the control arm bolts to the top of the bottom bracket and the bottom of the top bracket. The inner set of holes is for the WRX sedan arms and the outer is for the 2.5RS and Wagon.

Any yes EVERY photo that I can find has them on top... even the one right above this statement.

Take the bushing and put a bolt in one end, finger tight so that you can rotate it, your choice which one and orientation. If I do that on my chassis the holes never line up... something is amiss...

I analyzed the crap out of this issue with another engineering friend Sunday...

Metalmaker... I can't use the inner steel washers on the pivot shaft, they are not shown in the drawings and my arms won't fit if I try to use them.

[metalmaker12]

What inner steel bushings?, I am just kidding I have used the manual along the way, but I have made changes as I have gone forward

[longislandwrx]

Will this affect those doing the race height install? they both go under at that point right? Spacers for both?

[RM1SepEx]

What inner steel bushings?, I am just kidding I have used the manual along the way, but I have made changes as I have gone forward

oops, brain fart... washers at the bushing washer, rubber washer with weird blocked face, bushing, rubber with blocked face, washer, nut.

I can't use the inside washer and it isn't shown on any drawings or photos... It drives my A arm too far forward to fit in the other end's brackets

I'm trying to work w/factory five re this issue.

[freds]

I don't know if the following information from an old post of mine is pertinent here or not. Pardon me if it isn't!

Anyway I just want to be sure that as sides are being swapped everyone is aware of this. Let me know if I'm wrong.

fred




The nuts were tight, but not a problem. The bushings were tight on their spindles, but not a problem either.
As you see in the photographs the spindles are stepped.

Spindle
Click image for larger version.

20400



So you cannot just take say the RH bushing assembly and reverse it for 818 use.
You have to swap the bushing assembly from the original LH LCA to the RH LCA....and visa versa. No problem since you have them both loose anyway.

WRX configuration
Click image for larger version.
20399


818 Configuration
Click image for larger version.

20398

[RM1SepEx]

I just got off the phone with Tony Zullo:

LCA mount issue

they need to fit UNDER the top bracket for correct suspension geometry, spacers and putting it on top will work but isn't as desirable. Putting them on top with no spacer distorts the aluminum LCA bushing and is DANGEROUS as over stressing aluminum results in stress failures.

So on my right side I need to simply bolt it up and align the bracket with no twisting stress and redrill the bushing. Correct bushing orientation is shown here and I've marked the bushing underneath. I'll put it on the milling machine and make the bolt hole an odd shape to fit. Right now it is off by about 1/2 the bolt. I've shaded the top so you can see where my hole lines up.
I apologize for the poor photos, I set lower res to avoid issues uploading

On my left side it is more complicated. First I need to remove about 1/2 inch of the vertical portion of the upper LCA mount. I've pointed to it with my finger in the second photo. This will allow the other end to align with the frames forward LCA mmounts. They changed the parts today, so I'm pretty sure any frame after this date won't have that issue. Next I need to jury rig a system to use a jack to spread the bracket so my mount will slide in. Again I'll have to "adjust" the hole either in the frame mount or the aluminum LCA bushing so that it aligns w/o stress.

[Mechie3]

Doh.

[RM1SepEx]

we had so much conflicting information... :-) Mine will be correct and installed tomorrow... finished my black firewall this afternoon, looks sweet, so many places where you need to seal holes etc, the black on black works great. I'm using clear dow 50 year contractor grade everywhere else

[GUNS]

RM1SepEx. Are you going to cut that lip that hangs down on the firewall side of the top bracket? I think I will need to trim that down and drill some more holes in the brackets however, this will likely create one large hole. Are there an issues not having a perfect size bolt hole? I would think that as long as it's torqued down it should be fine.

Are you going to drill into the bushing or chassis bracket?

[metalmaker12]

we had so much conflicting information... :-) Mine will be correct and installed tomorrow... finished my black firewall this afternoon, looks sweet, so many places where you need to seal holes etc, the black on black works great. I'm using clear dow 50 year contractor grade everywhere else

Thanks for the research, I guess time to fix my arms

[RM1SepEx]

RM1SepEx. Are you going to cut that lip that hangs down on the firewall side of the top bracket? I think I will need to trim that down and drill some more holes in the brackets however, this will likely create one large hole. Are there an issues not having a perfect size bolt hole? I would think that as long as it's torqued down it should be fine.

Are you going to drill into the bushing or chassis bracket?

One the right side I'm going to use a mill to make the hole in the bushing "fit" the bolt as closely as possible. I may jig up something to "repair" the hole... either JB weld or actually welding in the hole come to mind

On the left side until I can actually see where the hole falls, I'm not sure. I have some little 4.5 cut off blades for my small grinder to cut the lip back 1/2 inch. According to F5 all new frames will have this mod. I'm not sure what this means, I got mine last week and it is Chassis # 17. I assume that they would fix anything not shipped. Once I can get it to line up I'll decide what to drill. The real PITA is getting the bracket up by between 1/8 and 3/16 so that the bushing actually fits between the brackets. I may have to make up something to brace the frame and bend that bracket w/o damaging the PC or bending something else! If it wasn't PC I could employ my favorite heat wrench.... :-)

Dan

[metalmaker12]

I am going to fit my set in later tonightor tomorrow after work

[Samiam1017]

I guess every body has had this problem? I don't remember Erik, Wayne mention it. But maybe I missed it?

[RM1SepEx]

Wayne and Erik put the bushing above the bracket... That modifies the suspension geometry. You can do that if you use a spacer under the other leg, it is about 1/4 thick. If you don't use a spacer when you tighten it you will distort the aluminum bushing housing, not a good thing to do to aluminum, when aluminum fails it cracks, a dangerous condition IMHO and Tony's as well.

They did a bunch of work to develop a high performance design, I'll make mine correct. Only the early cars will have the issue, I'm not aware of what chassis number will start getting the modified bracket, mine is #17

[Erik W. Treves]

I measured out the change in geometry when I mounted the bracket on top (with spacers) and emailed the difference to Jim...end result was it was in the noise...road test will verify...good catch and I am glad they are fixing it.

[RM1SepEx]

I didn't want to dig out my old books and figure it out... 1/4 in across the 14 inches or so between the pivots isn't very much. I just figured that it should work as designed and poked and measured, discussed with a friend etc... our first soln was spacers and I even have a very nicely machined set in aluminum... LOL

I was more concerned with someone with the shorter wagon arms... the bushings can't reach those other holes if placed on top

[Erik W. Treves]

Yeah 10-4.. Good call.

[Stickshift84]

Well, I just swapped the ends on my control arms (wagon/steel) and they do work. I had to trim a little of the upper bracket on the frame to get them in but they fit and will be located correctly to the manual. Lower on top of bracket and upper under bracket.

[Mechie3]

You guys are talking about trimming the piece of steel bent under the mounting tab on the frame? I just tried putting the passenger side in as described (top is under, bottom is over). The bolt hole doesn't line up like RM1 noted on the bottom hole.

Stickshift: When you swapped them, is the leg with the bump on the bottom like the manual first describes to swap them?

What nuts are you using to bolt this together? I measured the bolts to be M14 x 1.5, but don't see that on the hardware list. Is there a different nut that came with the donor?

[metalmaker12]

Mechie I used m14 Subaru bolts and nuts, and I have ordered two more. As of right now I put 1/4''spacer under the inner leg, but I will mod the frame gussets to accommodate the bushing to fit under and over like recommend, also I am going to get some high grade chassis paint for touch ups.

Btw, my headers only cleared the drivers side engine mount by a tenth and I had to finagle them in to fit. I am going to trim that back a bit to ensure clearance under load. See Dan you have brought it back out in me!! Lol

[GUNS]

You guys are talking about trimming the piece of steel bent under the mounting tab on the frame? I just tried putting the passenger side in as described (top is under, bottom is over). The bolt hole doesn't line up like RM1 noted on the bottom hole.

Stickshift: When you swapped them, is the leg with the bump on the bottom like the manual first describes to swap them?

What nuts are you using to bolt this together? I measured the bolts to be M14 x 1.5, but don't see that on the hardware list. Is there a different nut that came with the donor?

Same. I'm going to have to trim the tab and re-drill some holes. Not sure if I want to drill into the frame brackets, or just widen out the bushing holes. Probably the latter.

[RM1SepEx]

Mechie

see the pictures, post 73

bushing bump on bottom
yes remove the vertical tab around 1/2 inch should do it on the left
factory bolts

Dan

[wallace18]

Could you post a picture of what it looks like after you fix the control arm problem? Thanks.

[Mechie3]

factory bolts

Dan


I'm using factory bolts, but the OEM setup screws into threaded holes on the car so I don't have nuts to go with my bolts and wasn't sure what nut you were using with the bolt.

[GUNS]

I'm using factory bolts, but the OEM setup screws into threaded holes on the car so I don't have nuts to go with my bolts and wasn't sure what nut you were using with the bolt.

I'm going to take a bolt to Lowe's and find a nut for it.

[Mechie3]

Ok, thanks. Was trying to figure out if I was missing something (physically or mentally). lol.

[RM1SepEx]

Bolts and nuts: I didn't pair mine up when removed... I used a bucket and reconditioned everything. So I'll need the nuts later! :-)
Control arm issue. I just fit both of mine...

Right side had to adjust the hole location about 3/8 inch towards the outside of the car, see sharpie markup on bushing

on the left side once I removed the vertical section about 1/2 and applied some Hyd force I was able to get my busing in place. The hole movement does not allow modifying the bushing. It will be too close to the side edge of the bushing. I need to dig out a die grinder and modify the steel mounting hole.

[RM1SepEx]

Finished!

I ended up using my small air powered cut off tool (3 inch) and my air die grinder with one of those nasty tips like you use to port an engine

I just need to get a couple of replacement bolts... and I can button up the front suspension

I've included a shot of my powder coated front firewall.

You need to grind the LCA stud that goes through that left LCA bushing to clear the firewall. I took it back to the nut using a drum sander

20419 20441

[C.Plavan]

I wonder which chassis #'s will start having the fix.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm using factory bolts, but the OEM setup screws into threaded holes on the car so I don't have nuts to go with my bolts and wasn't sure what nut you were using with the bolt.

Found the place I stole them from, the rear strut bolts, time to get some nuts! :-)

[C.Plavan]

Not trying to be an A$$, but did you see that your front control arm bolts are in different spots in picture 3 of 5? Just looking out for ya buddy! :)

[Mechie3]

So, summary, to make sure I've followed right:

Passenger side: Slot aluminum bushing bracket, trim gusset as required.
Driver side: Slot steel bracket, trim gusset as required.

So you robbed Peter to pay paul, and now Peter wants to be paid back with some M14 nuts. ;) I'll have to see if i can find any lying around.

[RM1SepEx]

Not trying to be an A$$, but did you see that your front control arm bolts are in different spots in picture 3 of 5? Just looking out for ya buddy! :)

OOPs brain fart when I tossed it back together to get the photo! Corrected it above (crudely I must add!)

I didn't need to trim the brace on the passenger side...

Mechie3 I'm using adj rear lower transverse links, can you give me the center to center distance of stock links? I need a starting point as I bolt that stuff together...

[Mechie3]

Mechie3 I'm using adj rear lower transverse links, can you give me the center to center distance of stock links? I need a starting point as I bolt that stuff together...

What's it worth to you? ;)

We have a nifty hole centerline measuring caliper (uses cones to self center). I'll borrow it tonight and measure the links at home.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm having problems fitting the passenger footwell/dead pedal, anyone have a solution?

[GUNS]

Good job man. I just spent a little over an hour cutting and grinding my driver side mounts. Looks like mine are misaligned in a different way than yours. Mine fit underneath but are angled. To get them straight I have to trim back that tab that hangs down. I'm afraid to cut too much of it off in case it has some structural properties to it. I decided to stop cutting the chassis when I got to my 3rd beer.

[Mechie3]

I'm having problems fitting the passenger footwell/dead pedal, anyone have a solution?

A rubber mallet. I installed the side panels starting from the rear, then the front one, then placed the dead pedal, and then the upper panel that goes over it. I also too the small 90 deg flange and bent it a little farther (don't remember which direction, it's at the powder coaters right now). I did take a few light taps from the mallet to get it in position. I then started at the top of the small right angle flange, drilled, cleco'd, then, pushing in really hard, did the next hole down. Eventually it all lined up so I could drill the bottom flange on the floor pan. I then did the upper panel, and then the joint between the two.

Spacing on the rear lateral links is about 16.25". I left the calipers at work (doh!) and used a tape measure.

[RM1SepEx]

I played with it like that too but started having it pop the floor down like an oil can... It looks like it would fit fine if the firewall was back about 1/2 inch... I'm not coating those so I put it off until later. I figure everything inside the car will be covered with fatmat and either carpet or foam and vinyl. My garage is a bit of a mess right now... I couldn't find that rubber mallet today!

Thanks for the measurement. I just needed an approximate starting point...

The LCA issue still has me a bit worried, who knows how the tolerances have added up and how straight our front ends will be? If those brackets move side to side 3/8 of an inch our front wheels can be moved accordingly and we could have some fender centering issues. I understand that can happen with some of their other vehicles... my confidence is shaken I guess! I made up my own chassis and jig for my reverse trike... getting it straight and square was a real PITA Who knows how straight our parts are too?

[metalmaker12]

I set up weld fixtures and weld all day so I know stuff still distorts no matter how you set it up, but from my measurements the actual chassis is very square at all corners and mounting points and I am confident we will be fine.

Mechie, all my spacers are actually stainless, and like 4 are aluminum

[Mechie3]

Hmm, maybe mine are stainless too. I didn't do the magnet check. The ones I machined were all within .005" (most right on) and the upper links were tight! I did have 1 aluminum one, which was odd. lol.

I do remember the dead pedal frustrating me, but the second one was much easier. It did take a bit of "encouragament", but once it fit it's relatively easy to get it to fit again.

Have either of you tried mounting the shifter yet?

[Flamshackle]

The LCA issue still has me a bit worried, who knows how the tolerances have added up and how straight our front ends will be? If those brackets move side to side 3/8 of an inch our front wheels can be moved accordingly and we could have some fender centering issues. I understand that can happen with some of their other vehicles... my confidence is shaken I guess! I made up my own chassis and jig for my reverse trike... getting it straight and square was a real PITA Who knows how straight our parts are too?

You should be able to get specification measurements and cross check it very easily surely?

It should be very simple to confirm if the chassis is flat and accurate.

[metalmaker12]

Hmm, maybe mine are stainless too. I didn't do the magnet check. The ones I machined were all within .005" (most right on) and the upper links were tight! I did have 1 aluminum one, which was odd. lol.

I do remember the dead pedal frustrating me, but the second one was much easier. It did take a bit of "encouragament", but once it fit it's relatively easy to get it to fit again.
Have either of you tried mounting the shifter yet?

More fun to come boys!!

I am close to mounting the shifter, but had a snag, so I have to fix that first.

[RM1SepEx]

Everything I have checked looks pretty square, remember you are measuring to welded areas etc... as Metal said with heat comes distortion... I plan on doing some more measurements today... It's my background as an engineer... find a problem, look for another! :-)

[RM1SepEx]

Sadly I was correct... I messed up and elongated the wrong hole on my right aluminum bushing... my right wheel would have been almost 3/8 behind my left wheel

My methodology:

It is almost impossible to choose what to use as a reference, my aluminum is on the front so here goes...

I set the control arms level and found the closest front frame ref at a level. It just happened to be at the same height as the top of the LCA bushing bracket. I put a piece of masking tape there for an easy to find mark.

On the control arm end I found that the machined face behind the ball joint mount aligned with the measuring tape

2046120460

My measurement on the left side is 14 1/2 inches (can't discern past this level due to lack of hard measuring points) remember this mounting point was slotted for a bracket that was mounted too far forward, that is why we cut the vertical part of the mount.

On the right side I was short by almost 3/8 of an inch! I had modified the lower mounting hole in the right LCA bushing. That swings the ball joint rearward, rotating the virtual triangle. I located my original mods based on minimizing bushing stress. Any slight misalignment of the front LCA mounting hole, even a small amount, moves the rear mount. My slotting of the rear inner hole made the dimension shorter than the other side where the mount was modified fore and aft.

When I readjust the bushing to use the correct hole location on the right lower LCA bushing, I get 14 1/2 inches.

So we need to all make sure that we adjust properly.

My next question is what is the correct dimension to put the wheel in the center of the wheel well, time to contact Tony again!

[metalmaker12]

Dan find center of the frame front and rear and measure to mount points, than from those points you can determine were the arms front and rear will reside. Sat i am re -intallimg my arms and will document.

[RM1SepEx]

Dan find center of the frame front and rear and measure to mount points, than from those points you can determine were the arms front and rear will reside. Sat i am re -intallimg my arms and will document.

my measurements show that the lower mount holes are correct/symetrical... the uppers are much harder to determine...

[Mechie3]

I'm just going to let you guys figure this one out. ;)

[RM1SepEx]

I am stupid

put a broom handle across the front of the car, it nestles right in to the frame and brackets. The aluminum tabs for the sway bar links are less than 1/4 inch away! Easy to set the arms perfectly in line... just hold them when the distance is correct and tighten the bolts. Now what is the correct distance for easy, even alignment in the wheel wells?

Eric, you just put the body on can you check your arm location(s)?

[Erik W. Treves]

Not sure how you want me to measure, I have a ton of stuff in the way like all the coolant lines...

[metalmaker12]

When it comes time nick and I will post a thread on the alignment

[RM1SepEx]

Not sure how you want me to measure, I have a ton of stuff in the way like all the coolant lines...

I'll ask you a different way:when you bolted up your LCAs you slid your front mount up into the forward mount and seated the rear mount above the outer frame bracket. You insert the front bolt and manipulate the rears to line up the holes. You put a spacer under the inside rear mount. Insert bolts and torque them down. How did you determine where to tighten down the rear mount? How did you make sure that the other side was at the same place? Since this location makes a big difference in where the actual center of the spindle ends up and where the wheel ends up in the eventual body location what is the optimum location?

I was looking at it today and noticed that the steering rack mounts make a perfect place to put a straight edge across the front of the car. I can adjust the rear mounts a bit and get both sides to locate the tab for the sway bar linkage on my aluminum arms a smidge under 1/4 inch behind the line made by the broomstick, the line made by the front of the 818 and the LCA mounts.

I'll ask Factory Five what the design's nominal location is to center the tires. Builders can then use this simple trick to get them in the correct position every time.

Since you just got your body on, can you use something to check on your car... even a 3 foot section of 1/4 round bar stock slid in could be used to get an idea of where your wheels are.

I'll add a photo tomorrow but I think it is pretty easy to visualize...

Thanks!

[flytosail]

What about centering the steering wheel and then using a laser level on the rotors (use a 2x4 for a spacer) to go back to a board mounted to the rear mounting bracket. Compair measurements.

Just an idea.

[Erik W. Treves]

I'll ask you a different way:when you bolted up your LCAs you slid your front mount up into the forward mount and seated the rear mount above the outer frame bracket. You insert the front bolt and manipulate the rears to line up the holes. You put a spacer under the inside rear mount. Insert bolts and torque them down. How did you determine where to tighten down the rear mount? How did you make sure that the other side was at the same place? Since this location makes a big difference in where the actual center of the spindle ends up and where the wheel ends up in the eventual body location what is the optimum location?


umm... I didn't measure or check anything.... simply put it in added required spacers so there was little to no stress on the arms and torqued them down. The fit of the bolt relative to the mount isn't a machined fit to begin with... Front initial alignment is at 3* caster, -0.5 camber with 5 inch ride height (too high!) wheels are centered to the naked eye in the wheel well opening, however the side sail positioning and squaring of the nose and fenders will really determine how it all "looks"... my locost 7 was off 1/16 -1/4 in total square from front to back which made the front suspension off "slightly", like 1/4- 5/16 off relative from left to right...I thought it was going to be a huge deal at the track...I couldn't tell... not saying it wasn't wrong then or that I was wrong for not ensuring that the left and right arms are totally square....I honestly didn't see it being a huge issue if it is off "slightly" since the alignment will ultimately determine how it drives (flame on here as you want).... I would measure it the way you did for comparison ,but between the coolant lines, sway bar end links, all the radiator aluminum and wheel well aluminum being in...I don't think I can give you an apples to apples measurement....not sure what to say...my overall angle of the control arm at the level position is 1* pitch up because of the whiteline bushings...after speaking wit Jim this ended up being in the "noise" and his ultimate answer was, see how it feels under braking...good enough for me...I flown way more screwed up helicopters in combat as a maintenance test pilot doing recoveries....so with a head nod from Jim I moved on...not saying I won't be back here asking you later how you fixed yours...lol...but I am ready for my first safe drive!

[RM1SepEx]

I guess that I'll adjust them as even as possible and go with that. The only adjustment we had to make to get them under that affects the fore/aft movement of the arm is the one in the aluminum bushing on the right. I just had that nagging thought in my head that the slot mod could change wheel position... bothered a good sleep. As long as that slot is "tweaked" in the top side of the bushing I can make them even and they should be in the same place as yours and the fenders aligned fine. Naturally in my first attempt I did the lower slot and buggered the fore/aft position of my wheel! :-) replacement bushing is coming...

Agreed that slight diff in wheelbase, side to side don't matter, the wheels are independent after all. I just wanted to make the wheel spacing as easy as possible to line up. I had no thoughts about wheel position when I was using my spacer soln.

Thanks for the help, sounding boards are very beneficial to my thought process.

[Mechie3]

So you're saying, bolt the bottom of teh bushing in without modifying it, then slot the top part? I'd assume it doesn't matter which one you slot really as long as you slot the same piece (top or bottom) on the left and right?

[fateo66]

Do you need another set of transverse link bushings now? I have a set of WRX ones that you can have if you pay for shipping.

[RM1SepEx]

So you're saying, bolt the bottom of teh bushing in without modifying it, then slot the top part? I'd assume it doesn't matter which one you slot really as long as you slot the same piece (top or bottom) on the left and right?

NO! when you slot side to side you move the wheel front to back as the triangle rotates... We need to get the body to line up too

the left fits transversely... only the right needs to be slotted if your bushing doesn't line up.

Lay a broomstick across the steering rack mount, sits nicely there giving you a straight edge across the front of the frame. Mount the LCA loosely with the front pivots, you can easily measure the position of your LCA to the broomstick. My left rear bushing didn't align front to back in the top hole. I cut back the vertical tab to clear the bushing. Now the hole didn't align, the bushing is too far back for the hole. I ground the frame bracket hole backwards. This gives my a distance to the broomstick of approx. 1/4 in to the sway bar link tab on my aluminum arms.

On the right side when I move the LCA to get that same 1/4 distance the lower Bushing bolt lines up. Insert a bolt and hold it in place. Use a sharpie to mark how much material needs to be removed of the aluminum bushing.

I used a die grinder to get the slots ground on the steel frame bracket for the left and the aluminum bushing on the right.

Re-install everything and tighten so that the distance to the broomstick is the same on both sides

DONE!

I also got the engine in this AM. Two issues:

My plastic coolant fill tank on the right side of the motor can not fit under the cross brace, I'll need to fabricate a custom bracket.

Like Metalmaker my headers have a clearance issue with the left motor mount. I'm guessing that there is less than .1 clearance so when the motor moves it will destroy my nice ceramic coated header. The question is how much do I need to clearance it to avoid contact?

[Mechie3]

Thanks for the pics. It makes more sense now.



I also got the engine in this AM. Two issues:

My plastic coolant fill tank on the right side of the motor can not fit under the cross brace, I'll need to fabricate a custom bracket.

Like Metalmaker my headers have a clearance issue with the left motor mount. I'm guessing that there is less than .1 clearance so when the motor moves it will destroy my nice ceramic coated header. The question is how much do I need to clearance it to avoid contact?

Get aftermarket mounts. The stockers are soft. I have steel/urethane cusco knockoffs. Not these exactly but they look similar.

http://www.vibra-technics.co.uk/_assets/parts/images/sub100mx_420.jpg

Here is a link to a cad model of the plastic tank I made. It's downloadable so you can design a bracket.

http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/download-model.aspx?catalogid=171&id=340778

[RM1SepEx]

BTW How did you do at Nationals?

[metalmaker12]

I am grinding down the motor mount corner that will touch about a good 1/4 inch or so. I am making a stainless or aluminum bracket to drop the coolant tank down 1/2-3/4.I will post both along with my arm bushing relocation. I am hopping to not have to open the mount whole up as much as guns did, but only going to know when I get to it tomorrow am.

[RM1SepEx]

I had to open up my left LCA mount bracket between 1/4 and 3/8 inch, the same for the aluminum bushing on the right
I took 1/2 inch off the vertical of the bracket, was more than needed
can you do the broomstick measurement so we can compare?
I'm doing the same re the tank, most likely Aluminum
Will 1/4 inch be enough on the motor mount? The videos show the motor jumping a lot, I don't want to be rapping my header into the mount but am not ready to go to new mounts just yet... I just noticed my only stock rear arms are the ugly stamped trailing arms... project creep could really get rolling here if I'm not careful

Anyone got a source for the rear sway bar bushings and mounts? I'm having trouble locating mine. I pulled the donor apart a year ago and I can't seem to locate. Perhaps they were rusted to crap?

[Mechie3]

BTW How did you do at Nationals?

National Championships (aka: nationals) isn't until Sept 2.

I was a ProSolo (national event, not to be confused with nationals, lol) 2 weekends ago. Won the R1 class (race tire class) with a .8sec lead. Not bad for my first time in the car. ;) Co driver (car owner) had some difficulty such as spinning in the rain, red lighting a start, and...oh, yeah.....losing a front wheel. :eek: We fixed the damage (minor) the next morning and that's when I came back to win it all.


Some fun numbers from the event:
1.89 peak lateral G's

200 foot sweeper at the start we had a minimum of 1.69G's sustained

longitdinal G's were 1.24 at start

Stopping the car after the burnout before the start we had -1.15 G's.

3.2s 0-60...but the results are skewed as we were already turning at 1G when we hit 60 so we weren't in a straight line anymore.

Fastest straight line speed was 2.5s 0-55


The videos show the motor jumping a lot, I don't want to be rapping my header into the mount but am not ready to go to new mounts just yet... I just noticed my only stock rear arms are the ugly stamped trailing arms... project creep could really get rolling here if I'm not careful

Anyone got a source for the rear sway bar bushings and mounts? I'm having trouble locating mine. I pulled the donor apart a year ago and I can't seem to locate. Perhaps they were rusted to crap?

Stock motor mounts in a stock subaru makes the motor rock back and forth like crazy.

I got my aluminum arms (the 2nd pair) for $20. Every now and again someone on ebay doesn' tknow what they have.

Check local subaru clubs for swaybars. Offer them $25. Most can't sell them and would take almost anything. Brackets will be harder to comeby.

[bstuke]

spinning in the rainLot's of groans from Team Solo Atlanta as well as Heyward...

[RM1SepEx]

I have the bar and the rubber. The one bracket that I have would never fit the frame's bracket spacing. Worst case... billet aluminum mounts.

[RM1SepEx]

back to it today

pulled apart the axles, my aftermarket fronts wouldn't pop apart on the outside... I used a bandsaw, then a lathe to clean up the stub axles...

The inners look like they are supposed to... waiting for axles, fingers crossed re splines matching

Steering rack mounting, 05-07 rack The manual shows the bracket on the top and specs 2.25 inch bolts
we got 2 inch bolts if you place the bracket on the top of the frame bracket the distance is much farther from the frame than on the other side.

I ground the arc of the bracket to fit the rack (about .030 too small) and placed the bracket underneath as Mechie showed in his thread, it is still too high and the bolts too short. I also made up some bushings and ground off the tab so that it just clears the fitting.
I made mine 1 inch as that should put the rack approx. the same distance from the frame on both sides. The arc is still too high and the bracket tilts as you tighten it. I measured the distance for the bracket to sit flat at .200, thankfully two 1/2 washers is .199 thick! I bolted it all together, and it seems to sit well, nice and tight and pretty square with the other side. Now I need to go get some 2 1/2 long 7/16 bolts and paint everything up.

I also installed the clutch master cyl. It did pull in the aluminum with my 1/4 gap from the aluminum firewall to the steel frame but it pulled it together nicely. I can see where a 1/2 gap would require putting one of the 1/4 clutch cyl spacers under the aluminum as Metalmaker did

[Mechie3]

I ended up making an aluminum bracket for my steering rack. Used a jig boring head on a manual mill. I'd forgotten that the bolts were wrong. I never get around to even trying to fit them last night to realize they wouldn't work.

You cut your axles down farther than me. I kep the outer dust shield intact, though I'm not sure there's any benefit to it.

[metalmaker12]

What did you cap the axle end with, I got a couple ideas, but I like that

[RM1SepEx]

I just turned it down on a lathe, since no abs I popped of the tone ring and the dust shield and cut it back/faced it to the shoulder. It slides into the seal nicely and has a nice face to run up vs the edge. I cleaned it up with Eastwood Pre painting solvent and gave it a heavy coat of gloss black

I like the aluminum block idea but I wasn't at a location with a mill... so I just used what I had. Can you guys publish dimensions? The Factory Five steel bracket didn't give the correct height either on top or under the frame bracket. What did you two decide on for a dimension?

You can see my .050 abs sensor hole covers too...

[metalmaker12]

Oh daaa,
Btw my nice koyo radiator is not fitting, it is too thick

[JeromeS13]

Oh daaa,
Btw my nice koyo radiator is not fitting, it is too thick

That's not what I was wanting to hear... I was hoping to run my Ron Davis that I had in my '08 STI... :-/

[Mechie3]

I have a print at work. Ill post it tomorrow. I modeled the oem bracket, the ffr bracket, and the bushing to determine where they were trying to locate it. My block seems to work though i havent measured left and right.

[metalmaker12]

That's not what I was wanting to hear... I was hoping to run my Ron Davis that I had in my '08 STI... :-/

I am trying to get it to work, I might get lucky with shims, but the hood clearance is close. I could also re work the support, but that would make me have to cut apart a powder coated piece, guess that's the best option. I will work it out either way

[bstuke]

Btw my nice koyo radiator is not fitting, it is too thickHopefully the Yonaka radiator fits...

[Mechie3]

Here's the print I made yesterday. I used a slightly lower bottom to centerline dimension as what I measured off the FFR bracket (the 1.515" dimension) because I messed up and accidentally measured from the top of the mounting flange on the FFR bracket to the centerline. The real centerline is .178" taller at 1.693". That said, even at the 1.515" I think it's still too tall.

A bubble level on the top of the frame showed the driver side ever so slightly taller than the passenger side. The same level on the steering rack showed the passenger side higher. I'm also not sure how well the .104" centerline offset from the top works. It certainly offers compression on the bushing, but I'm not sure if it's too much since my bolts were too short and I couldn't tighten them down.

I would probably adjust the dimensions so that the .507 reference is smaller, but the centerline offset from the top surface is the same (ie: subtract same amount from the 1.411 and 1.515 dimensions). How much, I'm not sure yet. I need to measure the rack itself and see where the centerline is relative to the driver side mounts and modify my test piece.

http://i.imgur.com/EkvAFt5.png

[C.Plavan]

Hopefully the Yonaka radiator fits...

I'll be wanting to know the same.

[longislandwrx]

I got my aluminum arms (the 2nd pair) for $20. Every now and again someone on ebay doesn' tknow what they have.


Thats a sick deal. I paid $50 or $60 for mine. Beware a lot of them are bent and people don't even know it.

[metalmaker12]

Swapped for a smaller koyo, seems like it will work with minor adjustments.

[RM1SepEx]

bolted up the master cylinder, bought socket head cap screw and ground the side of the washer flat for clearance... Thanks for ID that the bolt was too short and the clearance problems, saved me a trip to ACE, picked up my 2.5 long steering rack bolts at the same time...

Had to turn down the bushings in my aftermarket adjustable rear transverse links... they were over .100 too wide!

I need my B/O axles and the rear trans cover...

[Mechie3]

Thanks for ID that the bolt was too short and the clearance problems, saved me a trip to ACE

That's what I'm hoping these early build threads do, save others some time. Usually, for me, I could fix the issue at work in 5 minutes, but it takes much longer at home. I could always wait till the next day, but that usually means I do nothing that night.

[RM1SepEx]

I want to know about the bracket and bolts from Joe... Don't we all need them? We are flying blind here!

[metalmaker12]

I am freaking Ray Charles than lol

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks to Samiam1017 I got a replacement LCA bushing and my front end is together and buttoned up!

Off to Loring AFB for a full weekend of autocross and good social bonding... the Rotax RM1DD2 is ready, I swapped in the tallest gear set for a fast course. I have a brand new set of MG greens to use if my soft bridgestones don't last the abrasive concrete runway. Scruffy from MA designed the course so it should be both interesting and challenging. (Scruffy does a ton of course design for varied clubs in Massachusetts) My trailer is loaded and will double as my low end camper. We camp on the side of the runway with zero facilities. I'm setup with good battery capacity, LED lighting and two 100 watt solar panels on the roof. I'm looking forward to a deer steak dinner, some cold brews Sat PM and listening to the club's pick up band of misfits... We have a propane and battery powered shower unit. Life is Damn good!

No 818 work until next Tuesday!

[projectrally]

I'm heading up tomorrow night right from work, Dan. I'm driving the Miata up rather than towing behind the Yukon, so my camping accommodations are going to be a lot more spartan than yours. I'll see you there! Can't wait.

[metalmaker12]

I will be sleeping on my ac, and driving my cart around.................. III ..... just kiddinnnn

[projectrally]

Any new progress, Dan?

[RM1SepEx]

Loring took a lot out of me... My eye bubble is tiny, perhaps it will be finally gone tomorrow! You should stop by and check out my 818 progress!

Front suspension is buttoned up except I don't have the original rear sway bar mounts... I have the rubber but not the metal... don't know how that happened, I saved every nut and bolt.

Dealing with the right side steering mount issue is frustrating... bracket doesn't fit, diameter too small, interferes with one of the PS fittings, requires bushings that we didn't receive, bolts longer than those provided... UGH Answer from Tony Zullo. "The PS bracket mounts from the bottom of the bracket ours hear fits..call me if you want.." Mechie3 and I have documented the issue, provided photos etc... the new manual specs .865 bushings and mount underneath... bushings that were not included in our kit and the mount is too tall for a simple .865 spacer... I've piced together a soln but wanted to try F5's... doesn't look like that will happen

It took a week and 3 emails with photos before the believed that they had a problem with the LCA rear bushings... everyone ahead of me just mounted them on top vs underneath... UGH


I've installed the pedals and steering column

I'm bolting up the rear suspension but I need AXLES!!!! I'm also waiting on the rear transaxle cover... I've asked several times but have heard nothing re my back ordered parts, 4 weeks, not a word re status or expected delivery

I've tried to mount up the seats, It looks like I was sent the brackets for 02-04 seats and they don't work with my 05 seats... Manual is confused, 05 is listed in both stock seat scenarios... I can't see how my stock seats will work, my 5'2" daughter wanted the seat farther back and it was back to the bulkhead... those WRX seats are very bulky... I may need to try a set of Miata seats... I was trying to avoid buying seats, attempting a donor parts 818... We will see I expect answers soon... I'm disappointed in how they react to "issues"... getting a bit frustrated!

I need to work in some sliders so my 5 foot tall wife and I can both drive the car. I'm figuring that I'll need some add'l brackets to mount up my 3/4 tall sliders... Right now with stock wrx seats she would be the only driver... my legs are all crunched up...

I've started the gas tank install and fuel pump conversion...

Anyone else having problems with some of the bushings not actually being large enough to slide over the 1/2 bolts? Filing them to go over the unthreaded portion of the bolt takes too long with a rat tail file!

[Samiam1017]

Ya any updates. And how did the auto crossing go?

[projectrally]

Eek. Sounds like you're having all sorts of issues. I suppose that's part and parcel with being an early adopter, but it sounds incredibly frustrating. Subaru made a lot of small changes to the Impreza line over the years, so I'm not surprised there are fitment issues. I think installing NA Miata seats is a great idea. They're more comfortable (at least for my frame), better bolstered, and smaller than WRX seats. And didn't I sell you an extra set of those seats with the red Miata?

I'd love to come check out the progress. Slammed at work this week, but after Labor Day I should have a lot more time.

[RM1SepEx]

Loring AFB in my Rotax RM1DD2 kart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ1g31ONPOY

[RM1SepEx]

some updated photos
210112101021012
will work to finish the gas pedal this AM and the fuel tank and pump this afternoon

[Erik W. Treves]

looking pretty good...most of the big pieces are on! I think FFR recieved the axles last week..might want to call them and remind them that you still need them...I called yesterday and they are inbound!

[Frank818]

I like those discs.

[RM1SepEx]

I like those discs.

the finish is Eastwood fast etch... cleaned up some slight rust spots, I bought them ages ago...

re axles been asking over and over...

[Erik W. Treves]

They just came in Dan...so if you called before they came in....you are not in the cue in my opinion, also they are working on a "completion kit" or "a box of fix-parts" to address some of the issues....so you can either wait for that to all come together....or call and ask for them to be shipped seperate...which is what I did....i will have mine tomorrow....

[RM1SepEx]

so what did you have to do re the throttle pedal Erik... it is too low and hits the floor if depressed. It also sits about 4 inches deeper than the brake and clutch pedal

2101521016

[Xusia]

Dude, that little kart flies!

[Erik W. Treves]

Dan.

I have not mounted my gas pedal yet since my throttle cable was back ordered...it's in that "completion" box...I was going to mount it where ever made sense for my feet...also take a look at the center console...to me it looks like it crowds your foot as well... so I will be modifying this area too...I was going to hang the pedal tonight..I like my pedals pretty close and on the cobra and I modified the pedal placement there as well. I seem to recall the gas pedal was a lot lower in the wrx as well...which bugged me there too. I haven't look at the manual yet for mounting position yet...

[metalmaker12]

so what did you have to do re the throttle pedal Erik... it is too low and hits the floor if depressed. It also sits about 4 inches deeper than the brake and clutch pedal

2101521016

I mounted my pedal, on my thread, I cut it down 1" and re welded it.

[RM1SepEx]

Chris, you shortened it to get it off the floor, did you raise it up, it is so low vs the brake and clutch. I'm thinking bending it could work...

Just got off the phone with them... Boxes coming... Christmas before September 1st????

Somehow I was sent an old hot rod gas tank! New one coming too!

Anyone else looking at using the stock seats? I'm having mounting issues there too.

HELP Anyone not using their stock rear sway bar bushing mounts or have a spare pair? Don't know how I lost mine...

[Mechie3]

Dan, I was sent a new PS bracket. Dimensionally it's very close to the aluminum one I made and it looks like it would fit. I didn't mount it up, but did mock it into position. The diameter fits well and the height looks good. It's a little narrower to miss the fitting too.

[metalmaker12]

Chris, you shortened it to get it off the floor, did you raise it up, it is so low vs the brake and clutch. I'm thinking bending it could work...

Just got off the phone with them... Boxes coming... Christmas before September 1st????

Somehow I was sent an old hot rod gas tank! New one coming too!

Anyone else looking at using the stock seats? I'm having mounting issues there too.

HELP Anyone not using their stock rear sway bar bushing mounts or have a spare pair? Don't know how I lost mine...

I cut one inch off on the pedal side of the pedal steel shaft. ( remember to remove plastic pedal if anyone tries this ) which raised the pedal off the floor and puts it is a nice location next to the other pedals. I am just waiting for cable to finish install. Pm me your email and I wil send you numerous pics.

[RM1SepEx]

Craig, Tony is putting a new rack mount in my care package. Thankfully it went from it mounts on the bottom to we will box one up for you...

Chris, I sent PM for more detailed photos... I'll see how I proceed after some feedback from Factory five and your work.

I finished up the mounting of the rear suspension... almost ready for it to roll around!

[RM1SepEx]

In my update pkg I got a pair of 1/4 thick aluminum struts of some sort... Anyone know what they are for? I can't find anything in the manual or the update kit to give me a clue as to what they are!

21161

Tony Zullo tells me that these are for our new inside door panels! Can't wait to see them...

[Racebrewer]

Per Joe at FFR "Door pull straps"

Cool.

John

[RM1SepEx]

so, running my brake lines today... provided parts can not work as provided.... time to get out the flaring tool to customize the line lengths...

[metalmaker12]

so, running my brake lines today... provided parts can not work as provided.... time to get out the flaring tool to customize the line lengths...

Hmmm some guy mentioned that

[RM1SepEx]

I have two 60 inch lines in hand and need three 20 inch lines to finish... The directions just don't work and you can just add up the fittings and see that there are not enough to do the job!

Did you change where the clutch flex attached? I need another rivet on tab and clip. Letting the steel line go across to the flex line laying under the intake is downright dangerous! I moved mine to the strut across the rear shock towers...

211862118721188

I also received a revised 05-07 steering rack bracket... I still had to modify it, the bracket still interfered with the fitting. And those aluminum spacers are 1.09 long not .865 as in the manual... There are more variations that Factory Five haven't seen yet!

[RM1SepEx]

They just came in Dan...so if you called before they came in....you are not in the cue in my opinion, also they are working on a "completion kit" or "a box of fix-parts" to address some of the issues....so you can either wait for that to all come together....or call and ask for them to be shipped seperate...which is what I did....i will have mine tomorrow....

I've been asking... still not here! And I got my update box... they are working on some revised seat brackets for me too, the 05-07 brackets don't work so they were working on drawing up and cutting out some new ones for me.

I NEED my axles, rear transaxle plate and throttle cable!!!

[metalmaker12]

Why do you think running the clutch line under the intake is dangerous. I used the factory clutch line bracket and mated it to the tower brace

[RM1SepEx]

watch the videos, the engine moves a lot! the flex needs to be mounted to the frame somehow, when it is under the intake the hard line ends up doing all the flexing... gonna break when you least expect it!

There is a reason you have the flex at that connection and not mounting the hard line allows it to "flex"... LOL. I'll dig through the boxes looking for that factory bracket... great idea!

[metalmaker12]

Dan I did not attach my clutch line to the engine, it is elevated under the intake and above the block. I have good clearance and I am hooked up to the factory mount that is mounted to the cross brace.

[bstuke]

"Door pull straps"

Doors = Overrated...

Now how to permanently attach them!

[RM1SepEx]

Dan I did not attach my clutch line to the engine, it is elevated under the intake and above the block. I have good clearance and I am hooked up to the factory mount that is mounted to the cross brace.

that would work, check the new manual for their soln, that won't work, it makes the hard line do the flexing, the flex to hard line connection isn't mounted to the frame...

Here's what I ended up with after buying a 1/2 dozen fittings. I did use a couple metric fittings off my donor too. The master cylinder connection was very close to the windshield surround. Now by using the metric fitting with no adapter it fits easily.

I put together the radiator extension and mounted the radiator. Both the stock radiator and my aluminum 2 row have big time interference issues with the left bellows of the steering rack. I think that we have clearance on the body work to shim it up 3/8 or so... Am I correct?

[Erik W. Treves]

Dan with respect to the master cylinder line...I would not worry about tucking it under the windshield surround...look at your last picture and ask yourself after the car is done how will you put or even check the fluid level?? on mine I did this and there is a cover plate in the aluminum box to cover the hole..I have since cleaned up the openings so it looks better and more finished.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20957&d=1377385482

The radiator hose is VERY close..mine just cleared...I ended up cutting the mounts and raising them about 1/2 inch...I have a ton of room now.

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, I have been wondering about the fluid levels once assembled. On yours you did what? Cut an access hole and made a cover?

What do you mean about cutting the mounts and raising it 1/2 inch? you had no problem raising the entire radiator 1/2 inch? Photos?

[Erik W. Treves]

So here is the upper hose...it looks close but it isn't..you can see the shadow...I still have about 3/4 inch before I even contact the hood.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21220&d=1378429994

I tried to highlight the area...hard to see hope it comes out...the red lines is where I cut.. the green box is the piece of steel I added ..took all of about 15 minutes to make the mod.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21222&d=1378430573

[metalmaker12]

You know the shifter bushings on the plastic shifter we have to take off ( just the rubber part) they fit under the radiator and raise it just enough do you can get the clearance you need and still be secure, I even used the metal insert and rubber other two bushing to mount the top of the radiator to the mount. It worked well, I will send you pics when I can

[Frank818]

I guess this radiator clearance issue (and maybe the brake fluid level too?) has been raised to FFR?

[RM1SepEx]

You know the shifter bushings on the plastic shifter we have to take off ( just the rubber part) they fit under the radiator and raise it just enough do you can get the clearance you need and still be secure, I even used the metal insert and rubber other two bushing to mount the top of the radiator to the mount. It worked well, I will send you pics when I can

Nice! two on the pins on the bottom, two under the bolts on the top!

[metalmaker12]

Nice! two on the pins on the bottom, two under the bolts on the top!

yeah on the bottom just the rubber insert, just tried it one day and it worked out

[RM1SepEx]

So it is time to attack the harness!

I've spread it out on the garage floor, You can unplug several obvious areas like door harnesses
7 21356 8 21355

I've started cutting all the sheathing and plastic holders off the harness. I want to strip out a ton of stuff that we don't use. Anything that was wired into the doors for example, I have no need for power windows or locks, power mirrors or door open switches. I'm not using ABS or airbags so that stuff can come out too. I am running a stereo but not the stock one, I'll add that later so the stereo wires can go too. So I have some questions on some pieces and am looking for some knowledge from Subaru guys out there..

Is there any reason why I can't strip out EVERY ABS and EVERY airbag wire? BTW the airbag wires are all bundled in yellow, they stand out big time. There is a keyless entry box, is that just remote door locking/unlocking with no disable the car function making it a candidate for total removal as well?
3 21360 4 21359

There is a box labeled security unit, what is this?
6 21357

on the ABS harness there is a DENSO box, with orange and chrome shiny label RH, another on the other side of the entire harness that says LH with a blue and chrome label, what are these?
9 21354 10 21362 5 21358

There are two fuel level sending units... one with fuel pump one on the other end of the tank which one are we supposed to use the wiring from for the new one in out tank? And do all of the Factory 5 fuel sensors only read the bottom tank level for fuel level?
21353

What is this, the bracket says front on it with an arrow...
21361

[Mechie3]

Security unit is the shock sensor (factory upgrade option).

Keyless entry should be kept if you want to be able to disable the alarm. On both my subarus, inserting the key into the door and opening it set off the alarm if I didn't use the FOB ahead of time. It might be nice to be able to use the stock door open sensors to turn on/off an interior or puddle lamp. The rear door sensors will probably need to be shorted together to prevent the alarm from thinking the doors are permanently open.

[RM1SepEx]

in the trunk area harness there is a denso unit with a heat sink on the back, what is it?

2136421363

Thanks Craig, I'm planning on going aftermarket with a door popper system and use the extra functions on that for other stuff... so I should be able to totally strip that system?

by shock sensor, it blasts the horn if the car is bumped etc....

[JAubin]

I believe the unit w/ the heat sink is your fuel pump control unit.

[Mechie3]

Yes. If the car is bumped, it sets off the horn.

[Erik W. Treves]

9,10,5 I believe are the impact sensors for the airbags

the bracket with the arrow on it (last pic) is the ABS Accel I believe...looks like a little RDD2 thing...

Not sure I understand your fuel level question...none of that gets used. just use the the hook up from the sensor that is attached on the fuel pump assy. The aux level sensors are not used.

[RM1SepEx]

thanks Erik, that's what I figured. My fuel pump controller is about 7 feet from the fuel pump/sensor plug of the wrx that I need to splice in to... there is so much extra wire, it's no wonder the tunnel ends up a rat's nest of wires!

so if I remove all ABS and airbag wires, pull abs and airbag fuses what issues can I expect? Just codes to clear in the software... I plan on using a Cobb Accessport... Craig you mentioned an issue with the Cobb and climate controls use for launch control (which I don't want)

Thanks for the help, all. I'm hoping we can document everything so people can replicate my harness diet.

[Mechie3]

As per a different thread, Cobb apparently no longer uses the HVAC for launch control.

[RM1SepEx]

good, I'd like to adapt an old fashioned slide and flapper heater control system vs the new electronic CRAP (IMHO after spending 800 to repair my 04 Silverado heater control, all the units need to communicate w/each other yada yada yada) and in Maine I have no need for AC

[flytosail]

Visited -RM1SepEx yesterday and wanted to say thanks for taking the 30 minutes of time out of his build to cover a bunch of things for me. There are some things that are going to be easy for me and a few things that are going to hard. What might be an easy modification in the area of a radiator ount would shut me down for days staring at wondering how to fix it. The aluminum work should fall together for me.

Guess what I hope to say is to all the beta builders ... there are many of us watching you guys and buliding along with you in our minds. Thanks in advance for all of the feedback that you do here and to FFR.

[RM1SepEx]

No problem re your visit, nice to take some time off...

Diet of the wiring is ongoing
radio, speaker wires, door wiring for all doors including open door switches done...

electric mirror stuff gone
rear wiring around the fuel tank cleaned up and chopped off. The two existing fuel level senders are wired in series... way too much junk concerned with vapors and the charcoal canister... I'll be making up a custom aluminum one vs that old plastic behemoth that was by the gas tank.

All that yellow airbag stuff is next, then I'll see what I can do re the ABS wiring

[metalmaker12]

in the trunk area harness there is a denso unit with a heat sink on the back, what is it?

2136421363

Thanks Craig, I'm planning on going aftermarket with a door popper system and use the extra functions on that for other stuff... so I should be able to totally strip that system?

by shock sensor, it blasts the horn if the car is bumped etc....

It is the fuel pump controller. You can bypass it and the fuel pump harness, but I would just bypass the harness, cause the controller is a safety feature also. Here's how: For the fuel pump harness you need the connector prior to fuel pump harness with black orange (+)and black white (-)to the FFR pump. sending unit: a brown white from the multiple pin connector prior to pump harness to sening unit + and than groud unit to frame. If you got questions, and you will I can send images and call you to walk through it. There is many other mods and tweaks.

[Evan78]

What logic does the pump controller use?

[RM1SepEx]

I have no idea what it's function is... :-)

[longislandwrx]

What logic does the pump controller use?

21400

It is a voltage regulator that can drop the appx fuel pump duty cycle from 0%, 33%, 66%, or 100% based on what the ecu is demanding.
If you were to datalog what voltage your pump is seeing you might see it go from 5v-14v's
It will also kill the pump if the engine stalls, something that doesn't happen if you just run the pump off a relay.

Car will run fine if you hard wire the pump, but you'd probably want to tune as you will most likely be running rich. It's there, and already wired and a nice safety feature. I'd use it.

[RM1SepEx]

I'm leaving the fuel pump controller but I think I can take advantage of it's location and avoid having to extend the tail light wires so much. I have seven feet of wire between it and the fuel pump and sender plug. It should clean up some of the rats nest wiring...

Next question... Just off the air bag sensor pig tails I have what looks like light connections... My roll over came with totally trashed front lights so I'm not sure what they are. Check out the photos, are these for lights, if so which ones?

2142221423

Other questions:

How do you disconnect the stock fuel line connectors w/o some special tool?

I found an unmarked plug, it is off the left headlight loom somewhere around a piezo speaker beeper. Itr is a translucent, single connection plug, covered with black grease. I forgot to label it or it fell off in storage and handling

214272142821429

[RM1SepEx]

Found a tool at Napa for the fuel line... a little grinding to fit but I got them off... :-)

[longislandwrx]

the specialty tool is only like $4 for a plastic one, or $20 or so for a set.

That connector is the passenger side horn

The piezo is the door chirp.

Additionally, the connected sensor on the third leg is the ambient temp sensor for your climate control. I don't think it ties into the ECU.

[RM1SepEx]

Thanks, I found both marked horn, so that one isn't the horn (horn plugs are black)

does the door chirp depend on the door open switches that I tossed? :-)

Any idea on the connectors that look like lights for my 05? I'm sure donor year matters.

The metal NAPA tool was on sale but wouldn't fit due to the Subaru bracket... I modified it to work. Now I need to install an in line fuel filter since my 05 only had one in the tank.

[Xusia]

If Subaru felt the one in the tank was sufficient, why add an extra?

[RM1SepEx]

because the F5 tank doesn't allow for the in tank unit... so I now have no filter...

[Xusia]

Ah-ha! :)

[RM1SepEx]

so... looking at the fuel filter, coolant overflow tank etc... Where is everyone putting those?

Doesn't make sense to me to put the coolant overflow on the left and run a tube to the turbo coolant tank on the right... Why not put the coolant tank on the right? I'm thinking another tank off the radiator would be prudent too...

The fuel filter placement is also a question, I'd like to leave that area between the engine and firewall "clean" if possible. Options? I'm thinking over the low portion of the tank on the left... in front of where F5 put the fuse panel

[RM1SepEx]

214492145021451

Just weighed my dieted harness... this weight includes all relays, fuse boxes and the cruise control unit

My original weight was 42 lbs, now it weighs 26

wasn't hard to do, just tedious.... removed the sheathing (save it) from everything except the main trunk of the harness. IDed systems to remove and just manually traced and pulled, cut wire at each end and if need be gently pull it through the trunk section... (Airbags and the window controls esp) after I reused the sheathing where I could, its just heavy plastic wrapped around the wire bundle. Then I re wrapped it with 2 rolls of tape.

Once I get the fuel buttoned up I can start laying the wires.

[Zodiac]

what tools are needed to remove pins and crimp after shortening or installing longer wires? I plan on doing my wiring harness soon also

edit: found it lol its pretty easy

21452

[RM1SepEx]

I didn't extend anything yet... :-( And when I do I won't be removing and replacing pins... I've has issues with that technique before. easier and safer to just cut the wire a few inches away and extend with solder and shrink tubing. If you do each wire 2 inches apart down the line you don't get a big lump in the harness.

[RM1SepEx]

So I bought a fuel filter today at NAPA... BTW 2005 filter = $35... 2002 filter =$20 wild huh!

Finished the fuel setup, put the filter just over the tank where the level sender is... I had to make an aluminum strap to mount it as my donor only had the in tank filter that won't work with our tank/fuel pump setup.

I also mounted the lower AL firewall... F5 has you riveting it from below with 3/16 rivets. I used 1/4 - 20 riv-nuts. Why bolt in a tank and then rivet the firewall over it?

Riv-nut tip: These can get spun out, add strength by putting some super glue on the underside of the riv-nut, all around the shoulder. When you clamp it down you get the added strength of the super glue.

[Xusia]

From the video I saw, riv-nuts aren't removable (just as rivets aren't removable; without drilling anyway), what's the advantage to using them?

Thanks for the learning! :)

[RM1SepEx]

If you rivet on the firewall you can't remove it w/o drilling out every rivet.

I can remove the firewall bottom by removing seven 1/4 -20 pan head screws from under the car.

I'll be attaching the top of the rear fire wall with the riv-nuts as well. the top firewall covers about 1/2 of the car's wiring... I don't want to drill out rivets to get to the fuel pump or wiring! (tomorrow AM's work, Patriot's football tonite!)

My body won't be riveted on either... If I make it removable I can just remove a bunch of screws and get it painted, repaired etc...

pop rivets should be considered permanent. Riv-nuts and screws allow you to disassemble something.

[metalmaker12]

Twist, solder and heat shrink, looking good Dan, I have everything working

[RM1SepEx]

My back order box in in FedX's hands right now. Last time it came the next day... :-)

so I should be about another week before I can start her up. Did you position the components like shown in the manual Chris? I'd like to get the ECU under the firewall and improve access to the fuse panel as well. Perhaps if I rotate the fuse panel to face forward I can put a removable door behind the driver's seat...

Moving the ECU would allow me to put the radiator overflow on the right bulkhead vs the left... I need to make up a charcoal canister too... I found an old tread a while back on this forum that could help design one... my original is an ugly beasty, I'd like a smaller aluminum one to put in the rear.

does the orientation of the fuel pump controller matter? Did it do something when my donor rolled?

[metalmaker12]

I have them mocked up and held on with zip ties, do nothing permanent yet

[RM1SepEx]

yup, I've got a bag of 100, 12 inch zip ties... used 5-6 today too!

[longislandwrx]

Thanks, I found both marked horn, so that one isn't the horn (horn plugs are black)



does the door chirp depend on the door open switches that I tossed? :-)




ok on my 05 harness the three leads coming out of that bundle are the ones I said. Does it come from a different area?

and no it should still chirp, just wont do anything. good for locating the car though.

[RM1SepEx]

It comes out with those other two pigtails... I'll have to mark it with a ? and check it when I can apply power (next week??? )

Any idea on those other ones? Short pigtail comes out right by the airbag sensors on both the front and rear side...

[Mechie3]

I like the idea of bolting those parts together. I wonder if pen nuts on the lower firewall would work. Seems the rivnuts facing upwards would look a little messy as you'd see the compressed rivet end. Got a pic?

[RM1SepEx]

I did take a pic but it's too dark... I'll get one tomorrow. I'll cover mine up with something. You could use acorn nuts, they would look good.

[Mechie3]

Just rechecked the manual. It says to reuse the in tank filter. Did you try it and it didn't fit? I haven't tried as my submersible fuel line is on back order. Wonder if its a universal figment thing or different for different model years.

[RM1SepEx]

Can't, it isn't made to be used externally with hoses. It only has a hose barb on one end, the other is a female connection with an internal O-ring

[Mechie3]

I'm confused. You can't put your in tank sock back on the pump? I'm lost with the whole external use with hoses. My 06 donor only ever had the in tank sock.

[RM1SepEx]

not talking about the sock! The original fuel tank pump setup includes a fuel filter, 2.5 inch dia, say 4 inches long. One end connects to fuel hose, the other has a female (internal) connection using an O-ring... I doesn't fit the F5 units, it can't be used externally or inline with fuel hose. I bet your 06 donor has the same one mine does... I also had no stock external filter...

[metalmaker12]

I am just putting an external filter only, just like it should be, old school.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

here is a picture of the Subaru filter in an 06. it is #40 right above the pump.

21454

In the manual FFR doesn't show the in tank filter.
Bob

[wallace18]

If you rivet on the firewall you can't remove it w/o drilling out every rivet.

I can remove the firewall bottom by removing seven 1/4 -20 pan head screws from under the car.

I'll be attaching the top of the rear fire wall with the riv-nuts as well. the top firewall covers about 1/2 of the car's wiring... I don't want to drill out rivets to get to the fuel pump or wiring! (tomorrow AM's work, Patriot's football tonite!)

My body won't be riveted on either... If I make it removable I can just remove a bunch of screws and get it painted, repaired etc...

pop rivets should be considered permanent. Riv-nuts and screws allow you to disassemble something.

You can also use 10-32 screws to hold panels and firewalls in place. You just drill and thread the steel tubing. It looks nice when done. I did this on my 33. They even make drill taps that do it all at once making it easy.

[RM1SepEx]

Tom,

I considered doing just that but on the lower 818 firewall would be using the 10-32 up from underneath into the 1/8 thick aluminum firewall, I didn't think 4 threads per screw would be strong enough in aluminum... I didn't want to use a screw every inch to minimize load on the threads and about 1/2 of the lower firewall's edge is open space of the floor pan. I considered a strip of 1/8 inch thick steel plate to thread as a sort of nut. You could use captured nuts too. Some of the steel tubing is thick enough to use threaded into the steel tubing (1/8 or 3/16) but others are only .063 - .065 thick, that would only be 2 threads engaged. Those screws give just a bit and I was afraid that it would be be squeeks all the time...

When I upholster my interior it will be covered.

[Mechie3]

That makes sense. I thought you were talking about the sock not the tennis ball. I might get a billet filter. Jegs makes one with AN fittings already a part of the assembly.

[Goldwing]

Another issue on the lower portion of the firewall as you described (I don't have my kit yet for reference) would be dissimilar metal corrosion. Steel screws holding aluminum paneling is fine because you have coatings minimizing interaction with the screw head. Steel threads directly threaded into aluminum with direct metal to metal contact in a load bearing joint could be a problem in a few years after lots of temperature cycles. Epoxying a backer nut in place behind the aluminum could be a solution, but again, I can't picture what we're talking about. Just wanted to point out the dissimilar metal bit.

[RM1SepEx]

Here are photos of the lower firewall and my external fuel filter. The riv-nuts don't stick up any more than the fuel tank mounting bolts

FedX just dropped off my B/O box still missing some parts inc throttle cable and got fine axles vs course axles UGH

2145521456

[Mechie3]

The rivnuts don't look bad at all. I was imagining the bent over standard rivet look. I'll have to see if I have enough room to drill out my rivet holes or if it puts me too close to the edge.

[metalmaker12]

I used rivnuts on the upper firewall to lower and to frame, also on the center console to be able to remove when needed

[RM1SepEx]

I used rivnuts on the upper firewall to lower and to frame, also on the center console to be able to remove when needed

That's my plan! Anything that can be made removable is good!

Just got of the phone with Tony, they have the correct axles, going out today, the throttle cable also came in today so I'll have another important box Monday! aFTER THAT i ONLY WILL HAVE THE LARGE cv BANDS AND MY cf PIECES AS BACK ORDERS. Ooops, caps lock disease.... sorry

[Zodiac]

being removable sounds great. only thing on rivnuts i was able to find was cutting the top off or using a vice grip to crimp and pull/push through the hole. is this what you mean? or are you talking about rivscrews? i found this site RivScrews (http://www.avdel-global.com/en/products/speed-fasteners/rivscrewr.html) which seems like its very easy to remove. Not sure on reviews for it just yet

[wallace18]

Another issue on the lower portion of the firewall as you described (I don't have my kit yet for reference) would be dissimilar metal corrosion. Steel screws holding aluminum paneling is fine because you have coatings minimizing interaction with the screw head. Steel threads directly threaded into aluminum with direct metal to metal contact in a load bearing joint could be a problem in a few years after lots of temperature cycles. Epoxying a backer nut in place behind the aluminum could be a solution, but again, I can't picture what we're talking about. Just wanted to point out the dissimilar metal bit.
That is why I use rubber backed S/S washers to help with the corrosion.

[RM1SepEx]

being removable sounds great. only thing on rivnuts i was able to find was cutting the top off or using a vice grip to crimp and pull/push through the hole. is this what you mean? or are you talking about rivscrews? i found this site RivScrews (http://www.avdel-global.com/en/products/speed-fasteners/rivscrewr.html) which seems like its very easy to remove. Not sure on reviews for it just yet

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-rivet-nuts/=ohprqc F5 provides us with a box, I have a tool and various sizes always in stock

[RM1SepEx]

Does anyone else have sway bar mounts that look like mine? The mounting tabs mount at an angle:

How about the anti rotation tabs of the seat belts... when I bolt mine up they stick out 1/2 inch or more and the covers won't fit over them. Just bend the mount???

214812148221483

[wallace18]

Does anyone else have sway bar mounts that look like mine? The mounting tabs mount at an angle:

How about the anti rotation tabs of the seat belts... when I bolt mine up they stick out 1/2 inch or more and the covers won't fit over them. Just bend the mount???

214812148221483
My sway bar mount is only bent on one side. I flatten it out with a BFH.

[RM1SepEx]

I cut the other one where the bend occurs and flattened it, the holes are too close together. Do your's line up after the BFH treatment?

[Wayne Presley]

Are you using the rear seat belts?

I got the sway bar mount close with a hammer then put the bolts in a tightened them up.
BTW, I've seen 3 different mounts for the bars... :-(

[wallace18]

I cut the other one where the bend occurs and flattened it, the holes are too close together. Do your's line up after the BFH treatment?
No only one hole lined up. I had to drill new ones for both sides.

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, the rear belts, I don't have two front belts, the owner of my donor rolled the car... I found beer cans in the trunk and interior! LOL They cut his driver's belt The front belt mounts with two bolts and no anti rotation tab too... If I bend them out when you pull on the belts it will try to force the aluminum seat belt cover inwards towards the occupants.

There is absolutely no overlap of the holes if I put in one bolt, no way to muscle it together. Tony Zullo told me the ones on his wagon donor (RHD) have one bolt and one interlocking tab that uses a slot! So yes this one is an issue. I just ordered a chunk of 1 x 2 aluminum to make a couple billet mounts.

[RM1SepEx]

No only one hole lined up. I had to drill new ones for both sides.

If I try to do that I'd have an end with a slot all the way to the edge... I'd have to weld on an extension to have an enclosed hole. I would also want to weld the intersection of the rubber bushing supporting area with the flat mounts as I have to cut that area to bend it straight, it is/was quite reinforced. Between that I thought billet would be better. Maybe I'll make a billet rack mount for the right side too...

[GUNS]

The front swaybar tabs fit better, but the bushings obviously don't.

[Mechie3]

Billet is always fun!