Never forget...Be careful out there

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just another reminder----
Back in 2012ish my best buddy Aaron and I built an orphaned Mk3 for him.
Graduation for 5717
Somewhere around 2018 he sold it to build a Coupe and it went to Florida. That owner kept it for a couple of years and then sold it to another Florida owner who kept it for about 3 years before selling it to a gentleman on Oklahoma. These subsequent owners have always kept in touch with me during their time of ownership ( and even after!). A month or so ago I got a call from the Oklahoma owner putting the word out that at 76 years old with failing knees it was time to sell. I put some feelers out but no bites. Last week I got a message from him with the news that he had sold it on Friday...and that less than 24 hours later by Saturday afternoon the car was totaled and the newest owner was in the hospital with broken ribs and pelvis along with a concussion. Seems he was driving on a wet road, "gave it too much gas" and went off the road then took a utility pole to the driver's door. Hard. No need to show the exterior pictures of the car but I am posting this one of the cockpit because I think it speaks loudly as a reminder of the need for respect and good decision making:





Jeff

5717 crash2.jpg

[Papa]

He's lucky to be alive by the looks of that steering wheel. Makes me wonder if the shoulder belts were properly tightened.

[egchewy79]

Yikes. Not sure if outcome would be different in anything else but a FFR. glad the owner is “ok”

[TrackDay17]

Wet roads and cold tires in a high horsepower, lightweight short wheelbase car is definitely a situation better left for polishing in the garage.
I hope he recovers quickly but it's definitely a good reminder because I think we can all get complacent about safety in our everyday lives.
I've read the sticky post here about owning and driving a Cobra several times.
Be safe out there everyone.

[JohnnyB]

Ouch, that was a bad day for the new owner. He’s definitely lucky to be alive. Unless the car was updated after it passed though Jeff’s shop it looks to have been a fairly mildly built 302. Just goes to show that it doesn’t take crazy horsepower for things can get out of hand quickly in these cars.

[JMD]

Without driving aids and electronic safeties, full analog cars demand a higher level of driving skill, awareness, and vigilance. You can't drive them like modern sports cars. As improved as they are with modern technology, they are still essentially a 1960's era sports car/race car. Which is kind of why I like them so much.

Always a good reminder though.

[CraigS]

That is sad. I hope he makes a full recovery.

[mrglaeser]

Thanks for the reminder Jeff. I'm hoping to drive my Roadster this season in gel coat and pretty much only plan to drive on warm and dry days when I am well rested and paying attention. I have 1969 Mustang with 100 less horse power and 1000 lbs more weight and I had it sideways into a curb five years ago due to being tired and damp roads. Luckily I didn't do much damage but it was a lesson that greatly made me more aware of how fast horse power without aids can get you in trouble.

[Al_C]

I've heard this many times before: cold brakes, cold tires, cold brain is when you have problems. Add wet road. I've done my share of stupid stuff, including high speed on the interstate in the rain. What was I thinking? Get out of the traffic and if I go fast enough I won't get as wet. Well, that's stupid... Maybe someday I will learn, but fortunately, the car and me are still in one piece. Thanks for the reminder, Jeff!

[GoDadGo]

I think people who buy a completed car are at a disadvantage compared to those of us who built our cars.
We knew what we were getting into and we have even lost fellow builders along the way.
If a picture is worth a thousand words, then let this be a warning to us all.

Thanks For Sharing This With Us Sir Jeffski!

[mrmustang]

Looking at the lower door opening, knowing the dynamics of what occurred, I'd say he is lucky to be alive.


Bill S.

[Cobraman]

It's really a shame that this happened but as we all know when you turn the key and you just slip once they will send you a message that will remain with you the rest of your life or end it. I've experienced this in go cart stage just tapping the throttle and you know what happens even at low speeds and good conditions. Lesson learned please stay safe.

[rich grsc]

RESPECT ME, or I will hurt you.

[rickster991]

Another option is taking a car control class so you can practice in a controlled environment. I’ve been tracking for years, but still feel the need to take a class to get some coaching on controlling the car when it’s beyond the edge of grip. A drift school just opened in central FL where you can take your car or rent theirs. I enrolled for the class in May. Be safe out there!

[TXeverydayDad]

Be extra careful when tuning/trying different maps for your engine as well. There can be significant differences in throttle response and slip/wheel spin with just minor changes.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Be extra careful when tuning/trying different maps for your engine as well. There can be significant differences in throttle response and slip/wheel spin with just minor changes.

Coincidentally I got a phone call last Wednesday from someone in Texas (wasn't you was it?) who had been out trying a new tune on his Coyote, lost it and hit a curb hard enough to bend one of the 4" round tubes. Told him "Sorry, I can't help you."

To the others who commented, the incident with "Aaron's car" just seems to be an inexperienced driver and some questionable judgement. It was a mild mannered car that was still using the 5.0 Mustang spec short block that I built for it with an E cam and aluminum heads. Probably didn't crack 300-320 horsepower on it's best day and was running through soft 3.08 gears. Pics make it look like the driver may not have been fully buckled into the Kirkey high back race seats. He's got some healing to do but man, it looks like it could have been even worse.

Be careful out there!

Jeff

[J R Jones]

I never shopped car control classes, I assume they are directed at street cars and their drivers. Adding to ciriculum complexity and cost would be high performance cars and wet surfaces (skid pad).
I experienced a BMW performance evalution with market competitors that included a wet area on a gymkhana course. Very entertaining. No surprise, the BMW was better than Volvo, Mercedes and Acura.

I had the expensive driving experience of racing muscle cars in the SCCA and they do race in the rain. I qualified a friend's CP Sunbeam Tiger on pole in (dry) Saturday qualifying, P2 was a Lotus Elan.
Sunday after warm-up it started raining. Besides slicks we had an old set of Dunlop intermediates that went-on. On the pace lap both the Lotus and I slid off the pavement, and had to thread our way to the front.
At the flag I gapped the field. I felt good about that until I started lapping the backmarkers on lap four. One or two cars at a time was not bad but getting through clusters of cars and the dirty spray on my visor was terrible, no tear-offs.
It was a great result and a great experience in contol under extenuating circumstances.
I have had my AC rear step out shifting too hard on less than dry pavement. It takes sensitivity and muscle memory to react in a timely manner.
jim

Attachment 226066

[GoDadGo]

RESPECT ME, or I will hurt you.

The Name Says It All: COBRA!

[TXeverydayDad]

Coincidentally I got a phone call last Wednesday from someone in Texas (wasn't you was it?) who had been out trying a new tune on his Coyote, lost it and hit a curb hard enough to bend one of the 4" round tubes.

Jeff

Unfortunately it was…

[cv2065]

A friend in my old Camaro club who has been restoring a 67 Camaro with an LS7 took it out yesterday for a maiden run and cut the tires loose at 50. Said it was unexpected and scared him a bit but reminded me of a builder Saul Sotelo that I had read about when I bought my first kit who had a beautiful white supercharged Roush Cobra a few years back who had an unfortunate accident. Never had the chance to know Saul but he made an impression. Only takes a micro second. Be safe out there!!

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/gradu...IEcdbdd9cHDWgg

[MaxVmo]

Good reminders. Thanks for the post.

[nucjd19]

I have recently gotten my Private Pilots Certificate and currently training for my Instrument Rating and Sea Plane rating. One thing said in aviation is " Good aeronautical judgement trumps excellent aeronautical skill" every time. This fits so well with these race machines.

[Jetfuel]

Hope and pray that he recovers soon without long lasting health problems.
Thanks to Jeff K for introducing me to SCCA back in '19 when I just finished my car and quickly found out that it's not what you can do with your car...it's what the car can do to you.

Jet....thanks Jeff

[ProfessorB]

.
This is a great reminder for all of us. Regardless of skill level, these cars are....well... very touchy. Add in the "unknown" factors encountered on public roads and it's even more challenging. I thought I knew how to drive well (even have some paved oval racing experience) until I got behind the wheel of a Cobra. Once I did, I understood why insurance companies hesitate to insure these cars. I had two companies tell me "come back and see us once you've had the car on the road 12 months....THEN we'll insure you".
And yes, I spun the car out on a curve by applying too much throttle in my first month on the road. Luck was with me, I crossed the opposing lane and ended up in the grass across the road. Not a scratch on the car, it was a free and valuable lesson.

[Railroad]

These stories keep me safe. I used up both lanes saving a high hp car several years back, when I had some normal reflexes.
I can only imagine letting my roadster getting away from me.
I recently read an owner was unaware his tires were spinning and then did some brisk driving. That kept me awake at night. I fear what might happen.
I told my son's, whom will probably inherit the roadster, just drive it.
Crazy it took me so long to become cautious!

[MaxVmo]

I have recently gotten my Private Pilots Certificate and currently training for my Instrument Rating and Sea Plane rating. One thing said in aviation is " Good aeronautical judgement trumps excellent aeronautical skill" every time. This fits so well with these race machines.

Also remember: Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

[ProfessorB]

.
It would be great to see someone post a well-written WARNING concerning this, particularly when people first get on the road. I have heard two different stories of cars wrecked while still in the GO-KART stage. In both cases it was a result of "just quickly stomping the throttle" while in 2nd gear. .

And once written, it should be posted as a "sticky".

[Papa]

.
It would be great to see someone post a well-written WARNING concerning this, particularly when people first get on the road. I have heard two different stories of cars wrecked while still in the GO-KART stage. In both cases it was a result of "just quickly stomping the throttle" while in 2nd gear. .

And once written, it should be posted as a "sticky".

This is a sticky at the very top of the Roadster forum:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...r-soon-to-be-s

[ProfessorB]

Thanks Papa....it was a great read and SO true. I especially liked the advice about club or group rides. Having rode motorcycles my entire life (I even rode around the USA, drifting for four and a half years...living in a tent), I can tell you a few stories about "group" rides. ( It only takes ONE idiot .....) The only thing I AM guilty of is that I DO take the car out to "clear my head"......but not by spirited driving. Relaxed country cruising works best for that.

[JTG]

Also remember: Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.

Along those lines, a quote I like from Steven Wright: "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it"

Thanks for posting that link Papa, I hadn't seen that before but have heard similar things from other owners.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I did the first autocross with mine when it had 32 miles on it. I suggest that new owners and builders do the same. In 16 years with mine I’ve spun around backwards more times than I can count…but never on the street.

Jeff

[OB6]

I used to autocross and I will with the FFR at least a few times to get acquainted with it. Spinning backwards can be entertaining in the cones, not on the street.

On a separate but related note, if you have teenage kids, consider sending them to SCCA Street Survival school. It's a one-day event that could save their life. We sent our kids soon after they got their licenses and they had a blast. They were also proud to be the only kids who showed up with a stick shift car.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

+1 on Auto Cross. My first one summer of 2015



Stay away from Miatas they will eat your lunch & steal your candy money.. I just run for fun but if you are serious about it install power steering.

[dr-sicel]

It’s even harder these days - back when most of us learned to drive/race/whatever, there was no ABS, no traction control, stability control, etc. So we had a leg up - but I’ve gotten a bit lazy with modern cars having so much protection - last summer I took a a corner really not in my blackwing and I could feel being saved by the big-brother electronics. That care has the same HP but twice the weight.

I instantly thought about the kit and how I’d have to be FAR more careful.

[J R Jones]

I had a break in the weather today and visited my storage to do fitment on my roadster. I was reminded that it is unremarkable in terms of modifications and performance.
Specifically my wheel sizes are original spec and the rear tires are 245/60-15 Coopers. In terms of performance they are rated M&S. While that may be amusing it is avantageous in terms of wet pavement.
In my street rides I always reference the Tire Rack for their rating of all performance aspects of tires to fit my applications. The Coopers are not remarkable.
Having a relatively small contact patch, my PSI is high. The all weather aspect is also better at shedding water and minimizing hydroplaning.

Autocross experience in the dry is good but with my experience in autocross, road racing and racing in the rain I will suggest street rain and autocross are not the same thing.
In autocross the driver is pushing to instability with an expectation of going loose and recovery. On the street emergency situations are not expected and huge race spec tires are at a severe disadvantage on wet pavement. They don't recover.
If you had your Cobra tires on your wife's car it would be dangerous in the rain. If you build it to extreems you have to drive with the consequences.
jim

[JCB52]

Well it’s just common sense. Take a fox body mustang, double the stock HP, now you have a car that is super squirrely under the best conditions. Now, shorten the wheel base and lighten it over 1000#.

[UpNorth]

While it is sad to read at the beggining this thread is very very important.
Thanks for sharing Jeff!
When people ask me how is it driving my Coupe I always start by saying: Intimidating.
Rich grsc summed it up: Respect me or I'll hurt you...even kill you!
I am contemplating the idea of having it written on my dash.
Be safe y'all!