Engine engine engine

[OB6]

True but I've always equated Shelby with Ford

But they're not Shelbys either. Sorry, couldn't resist.

All in fun.

[Jeff Kleiner]

But they're not Shelbys either…
.

Once again, precisely!

Hey Paul, pass that bucket of popcorn over here

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

Yes you can! Here's one that I did a few years ago.



Cheers,
Jeff

Attachment 211548

As my grandmother would say, that's a lot of lipstick on that pig!

[Mike.Bray]

But these aren't Fords. They're Factory Fives.

Exactly!! A replica of a British sports car that had a Bristol engine.

If you want to be a purest you can only use a Ford 260, 289, or 427 FE in a Cobra.

[cdurbin328]

Ok Ok.. I give up... lol

[GoDadGo]

There are so many great options out there that building the perfect roadster is easier than ever.
What engine you end up with will be perfect for you.
It is that simple so good luck.

[OB6]

Ok Ok.. I give up... lol

LOL - thanks for letting us play. Some of these conversations have turned into a sport.

[cdurbin328]

LOL - thanks for letting us play. Some of these conversations have turned into a sport.

All good brother. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

[Avalanche325]

Precisely! But now you’ve just applying logic

Jeff

You can hardly apply logic to a Cobra.

[Avalanche325]

Exactly!! A replica of a British sports car that had a Bristol engine.

If you want to be a purest you can only use a Ford 260, 289, or 427 FE in a Cobra.

Most of the "427"s had 428s.

[bobl]

Well, if you buy a higher end crate or custom engine, there is probably not a Ford part on it! It just resembles a SBF or whatever. Go Dad, your dark side Chevy, is just a replica of a SBC that you built right? All aftermarket parts. Round and round we go!

Bob

[kevin j sullivan]

Easiest and probably most cost effective is to drop the Coyote in. If you want that nasty ch-chug,ch-chug idle sound like an original, go with Godzilla, you will have to spend $$$ on Cam/Crank etc. upgrades as it has very low torque out of the box. If you're old school and want a carburetor- go with the windsor motor and modify it to a 427. I have a stroked windsor putting out 610 HP. Love it, wouldn't change a thing. (Rather have too much power than too little!)

[kevin j sullivan]

Of course they are when it comes to motors. Both can utilize highly modify motors.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Most of the "427"s had 428s.

But when you do the math an FE 427 actually displaces 425 and some change and the FE 428 is actually just barely over 426. So there’s that

Jeff

[cv2065]

Superformance dropped one of these in at SEMA. Me Likey!!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Easiest and probably most cost effective is to drop the Coyote in. If you want that nasty ch-chug,ch-chug idle sound like an original, go with Godzilla, you will have to spend $$$ on Cam/Crank etc. upgrades as it has very low torque out of the box. If you're old school and want a carburetor- go with the windsor motor and modify it to a 427. I have a stroked windsor putting out 610 HP. Love it, wouldn't change a thing. (Rather have too much power than too little!)

A hand held tuner can load a chug, chug cam lope (Ghost Cam) into a COYOTE for Car & Coffee or show days. They are not great for drivability but the sound is. When done just reload your regular tune.

[StangRacer]

Well, if you buy a higher end crate or custom engine, there is probably not a Ford part on it! It just resembles a SBF or whatever. Go Dad, your dark side Chevy, is just a replica of a SBC that you built right? All aftermarket parts. Round and round we go!

Bob

The LS actually has more in common with a SBF than it does with a SBC... LS heads will actually bolt on a SBF.

[StangRacer]

Easiest and probably most cost effective is to drop the Coyote in. If you want that nasty ch-chug,ch-chug idle sound like an original, go with Godzilla, you will have to spend $$$ on Cam/Crank etc. upgrades as it has very low torque out of the box. If you're old school and want a carburetor- go with the windsor motor and modify it to a 427. I have a stroked windsor putting out 610 HP. Love it, wouldn't change a thing. (Rather have too much power than too little!)

Brian Wolfe, former director of Ford Racing, has been doing some amazing things with the new 7.3. Check this out:

https://www.enginelabs.com/news/junk...n-4000-all-in/

If you want to see a wild Coyote engine check out Carlos Sobrino... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/22-wQwoCfTY

[bobl]

The LS actually has more in common with a SBF than it does with a SBC... LS heads will actually bolt on a SBF.

I saw where someone was installing LS heads on SBF. Not seen any results. I'm not sure even why you'd want to, other than just because you can. A set of high end Windsor CNC heads will make as much power. A couple of years ago I dyno'd and tuned an 434 CI LS NXT (regular SBC block) with AFR Mongoose LS heads at just under 650 HP, I also did a 434 aluminum SBF with smaller Afr 205 heads and a much milder cam and it made over 600. I also just built a BOSS 302 for a Vintage Mustang race car. It made 550 Hp at 7500 rpm, with ported cleveland cast iron heads. Back to my point neither the Chevy or the Ford use a single OE part. Even the Boss 302 only used the Ford heads, everything else was aftermarket.

Bob

[StangRacer]

I saw where someone was installing LS heads on SBF. Not seen any results. I'm not sure even why you'd want to, other than just because you can. A set of high end Windsor CNC heads will make as much power. A couple of years ago I dyno'd and tuned an 434 CI LS NXT (regular SBC block) with AFR Mongoose LS heads at just under 650 HP, I also did a 434 aluminum SBF with smaller Afr 205 heads and a much milder cam and it made over 600. I also just built a BOSS 302 for a Vintage Mustang race car. It made 550 Hp at 7500 rpm, with ported cleveland cast iron heads. Back to my point neither the Chevy or the Ford use a single OE part. Even the Boss 302 only used the Ford heads, everything else was aftermarket.

Bob

I never saw the results of putting the LS heads on a SBF either... It was several years ago when I last followed the project, and the fella was having issues fitting an intake manifold. I have no idea if the project was ever completed...

[Mike.Bray]

Well, if you buy a higher end crate or custom engine, there is probably not a Ford part on it! It just resembles a SBF or whatever.

A replica engine, that's an interesting thought. I looked back at my engine build and my valve covers, plug wires, and breathers are from Ford. That's it.

[Jim1855]

Peter Brock thought that his SPF Brock Coupe (Daytona) was a "hot rod" and indicated so to a friend when a LS7 was installed.
Do as you please, call it what you want, enjoy, smile and drive it.
Jim

[Avalanche325]

But when you do the math an FE 427 actually displaces 425 and some change and the FE 428 is actually just barely over 426. So there’s that

Jeff

I always found engine numbers that don't match the engine numbers to be a head scratcher.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I always found engine numbers that don't match the engine numbers to be a head scratcher.

Well, here's the deal; it all comes down to marketing. When Ford introduced the "427" FE in 1963 Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth already had their 426 Wedge (not the Hemi). Surely Ford couldn't refer to their new engine as a 425 or 426 so they went with 427. By the time the "428" FE was brought to market Chevrolet had their 427 big block so once again they couldn't simply call it a 427, even though that's what it was. The 427 actually displaced 425.7 cubic inches and the 428 was in reality 426.3. (Chrysler's 426 and Chevy's 427 were both actually 425.6) Remember in the movie Spinal Tap when the amplifier knob went to 11 "because it's one more"? It's kind of like that

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

Well, here's the deal; it all comes down to marketing. When Ford introduced the "427" FE in 1963 Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth already had their 426 Wedge (not the Hemi). Surely Ford couldn't refer to their new engine as a 425 or 426 so they went with 427. By the time the "428" FE was brought to market Chevrolet had their 427 big block so once again they couldn't simply call it a 427, even though that's what it was. The 427 actually displaced 425.7 cubic inches and the 428 was in reality 426.3. (Chrysler's 426 and Chevy's 427 were both actually 425.6) Remember in the movie Spinal Tap when the amplifier knob went to 11 "because it's one more"? It's kind of like that

Jeff

So what size was a 427 Cammer?

[GoDadGo]

Hummmm, What About The SB4 7.0 From Mercury Racing?
The engine has been around for quite some time & is amazing.
It is a LS based Marine Engine that Mercury also sell for cars.

https://www.mercuryracing.com/conten...ne-Catalog.pdf

https://youtu.be/Tajqa6T5Dw0

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...e-first-drive/

[JimStone]

Hummmm, What About The SB4 7.0 From Mercury Racing?
The engine has been around for quite some time & is amazing.
It is a LS based Marine Engine that Mercury also sell for cars.

https://www.mercuryracing.com/conten...ne-Catalog.pdf

https://youtu.be/Tajqa6T5Dw0

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...e-first-drive/

Good Lord that engine sounds nasty!

Boat motor though

[GoDadGo]

Boat motor though

Or Is It?

https://youtu.be/wOb-MLCrzbg

https://youtu.be/ao60xGzFE1g

[Valkster]

Chris, cool to do a build with your son...that is what I am doing now. We are hopefully not too far off with our MK4 completion (mostly only paint and body left to do). I actually wanted to do an EV build (I know, boo and hisssss). I would have gone with a Coyote or LS if the EV wasn't practical but knew I had an old school engine as an option from my dad. In the end, I asked my son, Lucas, which direction he wanted to go. To my surprise, he wanted an old school engine, but reliable running. He wanted something close to period, but modernized like the car is. In my case, my dad had an old T-bird with a 428FE that he gave us. Add an Edelbrock Proflo4 port EFI and some modern heads and valvetrain, and we are done! It has been a great build with him, and while not always smooth due to our age difference, I think we have learned from each other. I've been so proud of what he has learned on this project. The pic shows Lucas helping me install the FE.

-Mark

engine.jpg

[Etraugott]

Lots of factors to consider.

1st, is this a keep it forever car or is there a possibility it may be sold in the future?
I'm going LS personally. Some say it will lower the cars value, but I say it will just reduce the number of interested buyers. I actually think built cost vs sale price could net more if budgeted accordingly.
A Coyote or 427 build will peak more buyer's interest.

2nd is mechanical ability.
Some may require more custom fab/wiring than others. Carb is easier than fuel injection to set up in general. I feel fuel injection in superior in many ways though.

3rd is cost.
Be realistic with your budget. Many run low on funds and loose interest. My car is pretty much a new build other than motor and trans, they are donors.
Most don't put enough miles on them anyway to justify needing new. On a budget project I always suggest making a wish list, putting a price on the parts and add it up. If its an open check book just call a vendor like Forte and order a drop in package.

4th is economy/fuel milage.
this is usually low on the list for most but if you plan to put a lot of miles on it this may be a factor to add into the equation.

If your torn between several engines you could also make a pro/con list for each of your candidates to compare them.


"It's easy for us to spend your money based on our opinion." Eric Traugott

[Blitzboy54]

First one was a 306 SBF. It was awesome!

Second one is a Coyote. It is awesome!

Third one ......

[Mike.Bray]

Carb is easier than fuel injection to set up in general.

Maybe in the past.



And, can't resist...

[gbranham]

For those that say carbs are easier to set up than fuel injection probably haven't experienced any of the new aftermarket EFI systems. My ProFlo4 (thanks Mike Bray) was super simple to set up. The software is an app on my phone, amd it connects via Bluetooth. All I had to tell it was my engine displacement, cam specs and firing order. Oh, and my intended fuel pressure. It loaded a base tune, and it fired right up first time. I was go-karting 10 minutes later. So simple.

[Mike.Bray]

How carb guys see EFI

[MaxVmo]

So many options is a great problem to have! I’ve done a couple of go-carts in my neighborhood now and darn it there’s no way I’m getting past idle in third gear!

[Mike.Bray]

For those that say carbs are easier to set up than fuel injection probably haven't experienced any of the new aftermarket EFI systems. My ProFlo4 (thanks Mike Bray) was super simple to set up. The software is an app on my phone, amd it connects via Bluetooth. All I had to tell it was my engine displacement, cam specs and firing order. Oh, and my intended fuel pressure. It loaded a base tune, and it fired right up first time. I was go-karting 10 minutes later. So simple.

And being sequential injection is a huge advantage over a throttle body system like a Sniper. And you've also got timing control for an added bonus.

[cv2065]

Definitely agree that the EFI systems are more efficient than a carb when setup properly, especially if you have different elevations. I've added a return line to my fuel system in case I ever want to switch. The issue I have is that the EFI systems stabilize the idle, removing some of the rumpety rump that I enjoy. As Mike points out, some of the systems have timing control that could be turned off to get a better idle sound and drivability, but that's kind of defeating the purpose of the investment. Here's a good article on it.

https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...y-not-like-it/

[gbranham]

Is this not rumpety rump?

https://youtube.com/shorts/YF9snZL01...Ugpx7nRG6R-jRB

[cv2065]

Is this not rumpety rump?

https://youtube.com/shorts/YF9snZL01...Ugpx7nRG6R-jRB

Sounds great Greg! EFI is more rhythmic and controlled where a carb is more random, if that makes sense. It’s almost like EFI has one drummer playing at one interval and a carb has multiple drummers playing at different intervals. I’m no pro but I thought the article explains it pretty good. I’m more audible than technical.

[gbranham]

Sounds great Greg! EFI is more rhythmic and controlled where a carb is more random, if that makes sense. It’s almost like EFI has one drummer playing at one interval and a carb has multiple drummers playing at different intervals. I’m no pro but I thought the article explains it pretty good. I’m more audible than technical.

I'm just teasing you...I know what you're talking about. That's a great article, too!