Being in research mode I'm reading the manual repeatedly and making notes on parts that.... maybe dont have the nicest execution for modification if I'm being nice. I draw in CAD all day and have a small 3D printer farm in the basement: Huff & Dobeck for FDM and Derek SLA, and I have a 3d scanner so I can pull some good reference data.
So I'm thinking about parts that I could possibly replaced with something nicer and purpose built from fdm material like ASA or Nylon. ASA is UV resistant, high impact, tough, and good to about 194 F ( proximity to exhaust and engine applications will be on a case by case basis ). First one that comes to mind it the Coyote throttle pedal, I was not a fan of that procedure . Possibly a slip over the original nub or clamshell design to place the pedal in a better position. Then there was cosmetic stuff like modular gauge bezels and cubbies.
What other things do y'all think would be worth making after your experiences with your builds?
This is probably more of an engineering exercise than a pure 3D manufacturing item but my most recent “wish” is a better way to mount the roadster dash. The solution needs to facilitate easy adjustments as well as allow dash removal/access without having to lift the body.
It might not be what you had in mind but thought I’d toss it out for consideration.
I’ll give the question some additional thought and go back through my notes to see if I can come up with something additional.
Yes! This is exactly what I had in mind. I've been thinking on this one also but without the actual parts in hand I have to rely on others photos which is a bit hand wavy to dream up a good design. I have some experience doing this in the past as our race team had me make all the dashes and mounting systems, and we went thru a few generations so I got a couple different methods that work really well.
There is the pin mount drop system with cotters that is a minimalist approach with all the adjustability in the printed dash bar mount. It can be done with a dual sliding clevis mount for adjustability with an attachment at the dash bar and at the back of the dash. Or maybe a rod end style connection that acts like a suspension bridge with a 3 master adjusters (Left, Mid, Right).
In addition to a mounting system for the current FFR dash offerings, you might want to investigate reengineering the entire dash. There was a recent forum question about a “Modular dash” that someone offered in the past. You might check out that posting for ideas and pictures.
Adapter ring to mount the FFR steering wheel to the NRG Innovations SRK-400 quick release system. A friend machined one out of aluminum for me.
Mounting system for brake and clutch reservoirs. This is complicated by the wide variety of reservoirs available so would be difficult to find “one” solution.
I think you could print a nice "console" to tie the trans tunnel to the dash as well. A lot of guys make these out of sheet metal but you could add some nice curvature with printing.
What software are you using to model? We run Catia and rhino mostly.
Yes, the console with an integrated structure to replace the "dash support" would be nice! Maybe a base structure with a modular pod that can be configured for extra gauges, stereo, toggles, cubbies... kind of like what we talked about with the dash upper.
Steering and safety critical stuff might be a hard sell for FDM unless you do some SLS carbon fiber infused Nylon (which I have vendor friends for that).
I run Catia, NX, Creo, SolidWorks, Fusion360, and Blender.
That is kind of where I was headed with it. Could you use a radius to make it meet the trans tunnel at the bottom but be much wider at the top?
Hauss, I can make it do whatever we want. I just need to get good scan data to be able to draw it in the environment. Might take a while till I get there but it's certainly doable
What about the "rings" for lights for those that desire the "blacked out look".
Is it possible to print a mirror housing. Side and center mirrors in black would provide a "blacked out" option as well.
Maybe a light housing for the tag light that allows the tags to be mounted easily without modifications.
I have a few other thoughts but this is enough to ponder on for now.
MkII: 408 Dart block dry sump, 750cfm carb, G-Force T-5, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears, 3-link, Kirkey seats, black ceramic coated twister mufflers with shields and adjustable turn down tips, passenger roll bar, front and rear roll bars. 2020 GT500 Magnetic metallic, with white and lime green stripes.
I can either model or get the help from my engineers at work to model. The scan data is where I don't have any expertise or access to the right people any longer. AutoCAD used to have an app where you took a bunch of pictures and it would creat a 3d model. It worked well and if you drew a simple line of a known length in a color that stood out scaling was easy. I think that app became a paid subscription that was pricey
Autodesk has pushed AutoCAD down to 2D drafting and Fusion 360 for 3D drawing/modeling.
Fusion 360 has provisions to pull images in so that you can "trace" lines for your drawing. Maybe even better capabilities with image imports but that's as far as I've gotten with it.
Plastic has no place on collectible cars. Keep that in mind.
No offense intended here, but I’m not sure I understand your reasoning. My entire dash from FFR is molded plastic not to mention that fiberglass (The body) is technically “plastic”.
I do appreciate the sentiment and agree that too much of anything can be too much but I wouldn’t think some judicious use of 3D printed parts (which are pretty amazing these days) will destroy the “collectibility” of these cars.
But if I’m wrong, all of us that installed Coyotes broke that rule early in the build.
I’d keep it to a minimum. The dividing line between collectible and throw away is early ‘70 s when the plastic parts became prevalent, imo. I’ve been to a few concourse shows and practically none of those cars have any plastic whatsoever. I’d agree, some plastic is unavoidable but it definitely has a short lifespan and it’s much easier to make than metal parts, but the metal parts will be around long after the plastic has deteriorated. Plastic and composites are not the same.
Kit #361, arrived 10/2015, still in progress
818C highly modified, corvette suspension
Estimated completion summer 2023!
1989 turbo Supra 5 sp
2017 Tundra
Autodesk has pushed AutoCAD down to 2D drafting and Fusion 360 for 3D drawing/modeling.
Fusion 360 has provisions to pull images in so that you can "trace" lines for your drawing. Maybe even better capabilities with image imports but that's as far as I've gotten with it.
I haven't tried in Fusion360 lately, but I know you can convert .jpgs to .dxf's online for free and import them and extrude to a solid. I think the method you are talking about with the images I've used on blender, the key is the angle of the photo (having side & frontal) and knowing the final scale required. Which I forgot about and is a good idea. Allows you to get it pretty damn close with no physical assembly environment within reason of course.
Autodesk has pushed AutoCAD down to 2D drafting and Fusion 360 for 3D drawing/modeling.
Fusion 360 has provisions to pull images in so that you can "trace" lines for your drawing. Maybe even better capabilities with image imports but that's as far as I've gotten with it.
I'm not sure what capabilities you have, but before I retired I was given a tour through our 3D printing site. They had the ability to print parts with metal. That was eye opening to me, in that it opened new possibilities to the products we were designing. I just googled 3D metal printing and a lot of hits showed up.
MkII: 408 Dart block dry sump, 750cfm carb, G-Force T-5, 8.8 rear with 3.55 gears, 3-link, Kirkey seats, black ceramic coated twister mufflers with shields and adjustable turn down tips, passenger roll bar, front and rear roll bars. 2020 GT500 Magnetic metallic, with white and lime green stripes.
I'm not sure what capabilities you have, but before I retired I was given a tour through our 3D printing site. They had the ability to print parts with metal....
Yep I have done that also (but at work) I made a twin turbo pit gun turbine and a mini cross ram air delivery system with one. Its hella $$$$ and you need the proper ventilation to remove the gasses and particle material safely.
Definitely not a project for my workshop, but Xometry is just a call away.
Yep I have done that also (but at work) I made a twin turbo pit gun turbine and a mini cross ram air delivery system with one. Its hella $$$$ and you need the proper ventilation to remove the gasses and particle material safely.
Definitely not a project for my workshop, but Xometry is just a call away.
Yep - 3D metal printing (DMLS) is cool and I've done a bunch for my work w/ all kinds of metal (copper, stainless steel, titanium, etc). Some are even used in production turbines so the accuracy and strength is there too. But yeah....they are expensive but can be cheaper than CNC in some instances, and even better you can manufacture parts that aren't possible w/ CNC.
I've been thinking about 3D printing a two-tone light up cobra emblem suspended in the front radiator opening, similar to what a lot of the luxury cars are doing (Mercedes, Infinity, etc). If I was doing a non-traditional theme like a chrome delete where everything was blacked out, I might do something like that. But for the classic look I think it would look very out of place IMO.
Other ideas for 3D printed parts:
glove box parts (a few folks have done this already) - good option if you have a heater and want to build the glove box around the heater
heater bump out box (made mine from sheet metal but could use high-temp 3D print like Ultem) - good option if you want to keep a full-depth glove box and use the heater
console w/ built in wireless charger for phone that mounts into trans tunnel (could add cup holders, USB ports, seat heater switches, etc) - you can 3D print, then skin w/ carbon fiber or leather, etc
any type of bezel for hardware (bezels for dash switches, buttons, steering column, seat belts, etc)
hinged or sliding door for cockpit cubby (to be able to close/lock it)
angled bezels if you want to angle your gauges toward the DS for better visibility (not that anyone has complained about this, but they do it in many production cars w/ center mounted gauges)
Darryl [dbo_texas]
MKIV #9644 (build thread) (Index)
MK4 Complete Kit | Gen2 crate Coyote | Tremec T56, 3.55 IRS | power steering | hydroboost | dual roll bars | FFR carbon fiber dash | 18" Halibrands + Wilwoods | RT drop trunk kit & turn signal | front battery mount | saddle leather Intatrim Stoneleigh seats + interior accents
I’d keep it to a minimum. The dividing line between collectible and throw away is early ‘70 s when the plastic parts became prevalent, imo. I’ve been to a few concourse shows and practically none of those cars have any plastic whatsoever. I’d agree, some plastic is unavoidable but it definitely has a short lifespan and it’s much easier to make than metal parts, but the metal parts will be around long after the plastic has deteriorated. Plastic and composites are not the same.
My apologies M22 if this is too much of a hijack of your thread, but a good bit of the conversation has gone over to the technical side so I hope it’s acceptable to discuss, only once more, Lance’s take on plastics. Lance’s comments are a common viewpoint of plastics, a correct one for the most part, stemming from the reputation earned from the early applications of plastics in the automotive world. However, the plastics of today are far more advanced than what was available when “The Graduate” was on the movie screens and Hoffman’s character was encouraged to go into “Plastics”.
First, I think some definitions of “Plastics” might help. (I’m going to talk in generalities.)
There are two major categories of plastics. Thermoset and thermoplastic. Thermoset plastics, as the name implies, become “set” when cured. If heat is reapplied, they do not melt nor can they be reformed. (Think of a loaf of bread. Once it is baked it cannot be returned to its original state by adding heat). Thermoplastics on the other hand become pliable, even fluid when heated. They can often be reheated and formed into a new shape. (Think a slice of cheese for our loaf of bread)
Fiberglass is a thermoset plastic formed when a resin(plastic) is combined and cured with glass fibers as a matrix to add strength for use in structural applications. Thus, combining the fiber with the resin make it a “Composite”. So fiberglass is a “plastic” just like aluminum is a metal. Many of the early uses of non-composite thermoset plastic were phenolics. The were often used as buttons and knobs for switches and the like as well as the early (black) telephones.
Thermoplastic parts began to be prominent in automobiles in the 70’s and 80’s often as injection molded parts. The plastic was heated until fluid then injected into a mold or die to form the part. These were often more complex shapes than could be manufactured using metal. However, they did have their limitations. Obviously, they could not be used in high temperature environments. They were generally not strong enough to be used for structural purposes. And as Lance has observed, they deteriorated over time when exposed to ultraviolet.
Fast forward 50 years and you will find that the thermoplastics of today are vastly superior. Designers and chemists recognized the need for UV protection. In many cases it can be molded into the part or applied as a surface coating. Plastics can today be engineered at the raw material stage for specific characteristics such as high temperature resistance or abrasion resistance or even self lubricating to reduce sliding friction.
Just within the last 5 to 10 years a great deal of R&D monies have been expended to develop thermoplastic parts to be used in aircraft (my old industry), yes, even in structural components. Some of those parts are beginning to find their way onto the newest models.
3D printing opens up an entire new set of possibilities for the use of the advanced plastic materials (not to mention the printing of metal parts as discussed above). Fast flexible manufacturing using the 3D printer will revolutionize the way we manufacture all manner of products. One intriguing application is envisioned for use on today’s aircraft carriers as well as space stations or planetary outposts of the future. Instead of racks of spare parts, hoping they have enough of the right parts, they would only need barrels of the raw materials, the computer files, and a printer. It’s the closest thing to the Star-trek “replicator” I will ever likely see.
Lance, as far as your assessment that the metal parts will be around much longer, if compared to plastic parts from 50 years ago, maybe. Compared to modern plastics, not so much. Anyone that has tried to restore an old car recognizes that metal has its limitations as well. Cracks will propagate in metal and it fatigues. Not to mention the most obvious and visible weakness is the cancer of rust that can completely consume a metal part of exposed to lots of moisture. An environment by the way that many plastics can operate with little deterioration.
Lance, I’m not pushing back on your viewpoint of plastics. The old stuff earned the reputation you accurately described. However, the modern plastics are not the same animal. I think you would be surprised, even astonished, to see the quantity of plastics, of both types, used in today’s sport, exotic, and collectible automobiles. They are not there by accident. They perform and they last.
Sorry for the Encyclopedia Brittanica novel. Just thought some might like to see a bit of the backstory that got us to where we are today.
I am thinking that the form and the surface treatment is more key than the material for keeping the FFR looking reasonably old school. Think of a filler console between the dash and the trans tunnel. If it were made in the 60s it would most likely have been of bent sheet metal or even plywood. It would be covered in black leatherette or maybe painted w/ black wrinkle paint. So, if you 3d print one, keep the shape close to something that could be bent from alum sheet. And think about how to finish it. There are a lot of rattle can paints now that will adhere to plastic and I have also had good luck w/ rattle can plastic primer followed by standard types of paint. For instance I painted some of the plastic grip stuff on my AR. I used the plastic primer and followed that w/ rattle can texture paint in a couple of colors creating a kind of camo look that also had good grip. I am sure there are even better finishes in the industry but the stuff I mention is readily available at HD or L.
FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.
Ok I've been nice and ignored this long enough. Thanks for the insight 42Bfast, good info. And to those in the fellowship of the negative... I'm not building this car for you.
Here's the deal, the entire reason I brought this out is not to make a bunch of ricer bling parts. Its because the more build threads I read, I see manufactured solutions that WE the builders have had to come up with due to FFR not doing a proper tolerance stack, inexpensive mfg methods, big rudder small ship.... ect I get it. And this is not a dig at them either, and some of these work arounds are great and I still think the FFR product is excellent. But when I see the instructions or recommended fix starts with take a hacksaw to a FoMoCo part, I gotta' say to myself WHOA there has got to be a better way and my OCD takes over. Or instead of banging out some 90 degree .065 hack and slash fabricated mounts from my snips to support a dash panel that is not covered in the manual (that you will never see). Or spin up some expensive billet widgets on my lathe to get the job done, I'd rather print a nylon CF bracket that is as small as it can be, inexpensive, accept the attachment of my choosing, and give it dual function like making it a zip tie mount for wiring. THAT is the kind of stuff that I want to use the tech for. How do we improve the work arounds to make it easier and cleaner without having to spend $200 for a vendor part and we scrap what was in the kit every time we turn around. Or possibly we need tools or templates to help cut those odd *** holes in a panel like the lower foot box where the chassis bar rounds the corner thru a flat plane. Wouldn't it be nice to have a tool that works like a mini profiler for doing kitchen floor trim but on a multi axis? And now you can get that exact fit to the chassis with your panel that's in a weird place without potentially scrapping the panel when you miss the mark?
Yes we can make a lower cubby, wrap it in paper ceramic for cushion and suede it and you will never know its not a fiberglass, metal, or whatever structure. But you may be missing the larger picture if this is all you use the tech for.
Craig makes a point that is often not prioritized in many cars on this forum, the iconic design is from a specific period with roots to the fifties.
My street rod project is a 1929 Mercedes SSK, and I maintain a discipline to at least mimic authenticity. The fabricated body respects shapes that were formed in sheet aluminum. The paint is non-metallic black base without clear. The engine is an I-6, transmission manual, rear axle live on leaf springs, bench seat backrest, the wheels/tires are 5.00 X 30 diameter wires. Lots of performance compromises to respect the theme.
OTOH under all that is a 3.0 EFI DOHC engine and five speed, IFS with power rack/pinion, 4 wheel disc brakes, a tuned header and aluminum radiator. Yeah, probably too fast for the tires.
On plastics, OEM examples have become durable, but designs are not always (fastener) serviceable. My 2006 Jaguar XKR was lovely but plastic interior parts turned into powder in ten years. Ironically repair was inside layers of FRP.
A couple of years ago a design studio I worked for was solicited by a company to buy their CAD CAM limited production part manufacturing process. They answered several of the questions seen here but I asked about material compatibility with petroleum, brake fluid and anti freeze, the answer was "no". Loctite also challenges some plastics. One should always consider yield and fatigue strength during design. Since performance validation is unlikely, overkill design is not inappropriate.
jim
I believe 3D printing will only enhance a builders ability to make the car their own. How many folks put in a radio, fuel injection, mod motor, LED lighting. These cars are only a nod to the past, they are not a 1965 Shelby Cobra. If built well, they are far better in performance and looks.
Looking forward to seeing what you create M22 Cobra. Folks let's remember build it the way you want it. I'm not a fan of rat-rods but, I'm impressed with the workmanship and creativity.
Another possible use for 3D printed parts would be if you need to move air through a non-round location under the dash.
Oooohh yeah that's a good one. I've seen a build (YOUTUBE VIDEO) w/ 3D printed ducts coming from the heater and routing behind the dash over to the DS footbox and to a 3D printed plenum to the defrost vents. Much cleaner than trying to route the big corrugated hoses behind the dash and fighting for space with the harness.
Darryl [dbo_texas]
MKIV #9644 (build thread) (Index)
MK4 Complete Kit | Gen2 crate Coyote | Tremec T56, 3.55 IRS | power steering | hydroboost | dual roll bars | FFR carbon fiber dash | 18" Halibrands + Wilwoods | RT drop trunk kit & turn signal | front battery mount | saddle leather Intatrim Stoneleigh seats + interior accents
Oooohh yeah that's a good one. I've seen a build (YOUTUBE VIDEO) w/ 3D printed ducts coming from the heater and routing behind the dash over to the DS footbox and to a 3D printed plenum to the defrost vents. Much cleaner than trying to route the big corrugated hoses behind the dash and fighting for space with the harness.
Yeah, I was thinking about trying to make a duct in the lower where the oil cooler usually lives and route that to the foot box. Like it was said, take a non conventional shape, split it, and route to a 3" hose.
I thank everyone for the education on plastics. I’m from the old school of thinking that emphasizes robust design, which I do not associate with plastic. Nor do I think the modern approach to chassis building by some manufacturers using bonding to attach frame members or structural parts is appropriate. I’m glad to know that the conversation has been spurred by my comments, however simplistic. I’ve gone to great lengths to eliminate as much plastic from my 818 as I could, but there’s still some there. I think that part of the journey was enjoyable in itself, knowing that my touch as a fallible human being was instilled into my final product. I still am of the opinion that metal parts, as difficult as they may sometimes be to produce, are the preferred option for me.
Kit #361, arrived 10/2015, still in progress
818C highly modified, corvette suspension
Estimated completion summer 2023!
1989 turbo Supra 5 sp
2017 Tundra
For anyone using the Specialty Power Windows wiper kit for the roadster, you will need to make some angled spacers. One can get spacer stock and make angled cuts, but my son 3D printed some and they worked great. Happy to share the files if anyone needs them.
James
Mk4 Roadster #9974 - Picked Up 1/2021. Complete kit, Gen 2 Ford Coyote / TKX, IRS. Completed 9/2023
For anyone using the Specialty Power Windows wiper kit for the roadster, you will need to make some angled spacers. One can get spacer stock and make angled cuts, but my son 3D printed some and they worked great. Happy to share the files if anyone needs them.
Hey brother.
I'm right there with you. I've been a mechanical engineer for over 30 years as well as a huge gearhead. I've designed and 3D printed all kinds of stuff for various builds I've done.
I recently built a 1966 F100 resto-mod and vintage air didn't have the compressor mount for my engine setup. I designed my own, 3D printed a prototype to test fit and function. Then sent the 3D file to a machine shop and had the final design made from billet aluminum. Turned out awesome and worked like a champ. I read an article once about Ford Performance 3D printing intake manifolds, slapping them on a racecar, and running the heck out of them. Anyway, Let me know if you need a hand or anything. I've been using AutoCAD and Solidworks for 25+ years so I'm pretty good with it.
Thanks for the post. Good to see other folks taking advantage of technology to further our (expensive) hobby.
I have a 3D suggestion for your consideration.
It would require a little bit of engineering, but a cover for the Roadster door hinge would clean up the interior and improve the safety of the exposed metal edges. (I've known 2 Roadster owners that had their left knee/leg busted open and stitches after an accident).
SPF has a cover on their door hinges, don't know about other kits/manufacturers.
F5R #7446: MK4, 302, T5 midshift, 3.55 Posi IRS, 17" Halibrands
Delivered 4/4/11, First start 9/29/12, Licensed 4/24/13, off to PAINT 2/15/14!! Wahoo!
Hobbyist here with a cheap printer. Messed around printing a few 3d printed things for Dads Cobra. Steering wheel button, and heater defrost vents out of ABS plastic. The ABS warped a little during printing , which actually helped the curvature of the dash
Thanks: 
Likes: 
. Possibly a slip over the original nub or clamshell design to place the pedal in a better position. Then there was cosmetic stuff like modular gauge bezels and cubbies.
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Originally Posted by kirby
