Camera's 818C

[Scott Meyer]

Seems like we got the same poor QC on the headlights as you did. Couldn’t understand how they can send out one glossy and one matte. It’s not the same plastic once you begin sanding on them. We’ve gone a different route…it’s not done with preparation yet but a taste of what’s coming…
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[mcamera]

I had originally installed the vent and border powder coated black and decided I didn't like it. I cut out the vent larger and left it open with the inner fender well painted black. I think it looks good and hopefully flows more air.Attachment 148392

Thank you for the pic, that's exactly what I was thinking. I wasn't sure how nicely a black fender well would do as a background but yours looks great. This is what I'm currently planning to do. I'll still wait until I get the fender well mocked up before I make my final cuts though.

Warning Mcam, Counter sink head fasteners are problematic with plastic parts. The head shape puts a spreading clamp load on the inside of the hole and will cause radial cracks around the hole.
Any flat bottom head is better, Socket head button head, phillips head or slot head. Even a carriage type fastener could work, but that head diameter is usually larger. "T" bolts could work but are rare.
The 818R guys enlarge the side vents and go for a sharper radius on the leading edge of the scoop for more air. (Hobby Racer & Sgt Gator)
jim

FFR has you countersink all of the holes for the headlight install. You can't leave the bolt head standing proud for the lens install, and there isn't enough fiberglass for a counterbore. I used smaller bolts for 2/5 connections on the driver headlight as needed for space constraints, but I still plan to use as many 10-32 bolts as possible on the passenger headlight for your concerns. The larger head will distribute stress better. In theory it's not perfect but I haven't seen any issues from previous builders. The perimeter of the headlight also gets glued in with silicone so that may take a little load off the 5 mounting bolts.

for the side vents, have you seen VRaptor's side scoops?

I haven't seen those before so thanks for suggesting them. They look cool but I'm still leaning towards the larger opening concept.

Seems like we got the same poor QC on the headlights as you did. Couldn’t understand how they can send out one glossy and one matte. It’s not the same plastic once you begin sanding on them. We’ve gone a different route…it’s not done with preparation yet but a taste of what’s coming…
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FFR said they arrive pre wrapped so they never see them. You would think there would be a part number change or revision # to differentiate them but I guess not. Those will stand out! Are those hydro dipped?

[J R Jones]

Mcam, FFR spec'd something I do not agree with? How can that be? I must be wrong.

Plastic windscreens on motorcycles have used plastic screws and nuts that limit clamp force.
In this case consider nylock stop nuts that will not loosen when snug, not tight.

Opps, you already did that. Good on you.
jim

[Scott Meyer]

Michael,

No, I’m teaching myself how to do real carbon fiber skinning! Also doing our engine cover (818S) now…

[mcamera]

I received my ZDM shifter and it's a really nice piece. It's not a direct drop in for my setup though so I'm weighing some options.

If I mount on top of the rails it interferes with my passenger seat and my handbrake
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If I hang it underneath the rails, my handbrake is good but the stick hits the passenger side rail
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If I raise the shifter 1.5" I gain enough clearance to my passenger seat but still interfere with my handbrake
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If I raise the shifter 3" I have lots of clearance to my passenger seat, the cables go straight back through the firewall, and this was my favorite position for comfort. But it interferes with my handbrake, requires I raise the center console, and I'm concerned about shift effort with such a short stick.
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I talked to Craig about straightening the stick so it's not leaning towards my passenger seat and he suggested a couple other things. One of those was to order an early MR2 stick (AW11, not the SW20) which has the same ball as his ZDM shifter and has a bend going forward, not towards the passenger side. For $25 on Ebay I'm going to give that a shot. I'm hoping that allows me to hang my shifter underneath the rails without interfering with the passenger rail, and it won't interfere with my handbrake. Mounting the shifter low also gives me the option to add a 3" stick extension to reduce effort and bring the stick to a slightly higher/more comfortable position.

If it still hits the passenger rail, I'll be looking to move the handbrake and mount it on top of the rails. Passenger seat clearance TBD with the straighter stick. If that's still a problem, onto raising the console!

2nd headlight was easier to install but I still needed smaller #8 bolt/nuts in a couple areas. The fender had larger gaps to the bucket so I used an extra bolt to help pull it tight. I had to put the hood on just to remind myself of what I'm building.
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[J R Jones]

Mcam, I can be uninhibited with suggestions, so off the wall:
Presidents are square and level, but you could consider a small to moderate tilt to the left, or a small tilt aft. Both?
That might put the knob/shaft where it is comfortable.
If it 1-2 degrees it might be perceived as a fault. More than that shows intent.
jim

[roadrashrob]

Michael,

Is moving the whole unit forward just a bit not an option? Reason I ask is I have the ZDB shifter as well, but I had switched to a front mounted fuel tank and my seats go back a few more inches. My shifter looks like it is in approximately the same physical space on the car, but slightly forward "relative" to the seat. I find that a very comfortable geometry, and I'm only 5'11", so not like I have gorilla arms! :-)

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[mcamera]

Mcam, I can be uninhibited with suggestions, so off the wall:
Presidents are square and level, but you could consider a small to moderate tilt to the left, or a small tilt aft. Both?
That might put the knob/shaft where it is comfortable.
If it 1-2 degrees it might be perceived as a fault. More than that shows intent.
jim

A small tilt to the left may help for fine tuning. I need to do something more drastic since the shift knob adds to the interference. I'd have no room for my fingers next to the passenger seat in 5th/reverse gears. I'd like to keep everything true for rigidity, but I guess OEM shifters use rubber mounts right? A tiny bit of play shouldn't feel strange if I tilt a couple degrees.

Michael,

Is moving the whole unit forward just a bit not an option? Reason I ask is I have the ZDB shifter as well, but I had switched to a front mounted fuel tank and my seats go back a few more inches. My shifter looks like it is in approximately the same physical space on the car, but slightly forward "relative" to the seat. I find that a very comfortable geometry, and I'm only 5'11", so not like I have gorilla arms! :-)

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Unfortunately any further forward becomes a reach for 5th gear. I'm 5'9" but maybe I have short arms? I'd also have to move it forward several inches to clear my handbrake (see pic). I see that you don't have your seats in yet. I took Lance's advice awhile back and waited to mount my original shifter until after I installed the driver's seat. I was surprised how much further back I had to mount the shifter to be comfortable once I sat higher up in the seat. Especially with a low shifter like the ZDM where you have to reach down, reducing how far you can reach out.
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[roadrashrob]

I get it. I did mount it with the seats in, which was how I determined where I wanted it. Just don't keep them in. Lot's of fiddling until it felt just right. Was funny in that without the cables there was a lot more throw that with the cables, so I found 5th gear to be closer than my mock up.

[FFRWRX]

Move the handbrake up a bit with an added bracket? Can it go back any further?

[mcamera]

Move the handbrake up a bit with an added bracket? Can it go back any further?

I'm trying to avoid moving it at all, but moving it up is a good idea if I'm forced to. Can't go any further back if you see my pics.

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[Ajzride]

Get rid of the handbrake. Go electric with either an E-Stopp or an electric caliper

[mcamera]

Get rid of the handbrake. Go electric with either an E-Stopp or an electric caliper

I looked up the E stop and it's $550! I already bought the Lokar brake so I'll make it work one way or another. I may not even need to move it depending on the new shifter handle I ordered.

[roadrashrob]

As I was in the city this week, and not at the 818, your post had me second guessing my shifter vs. seat position. The picture I had posted without the seat was simply one I had on my laptop of the shifter.

Tonight when I got to the car I am now even more intrigued by the way your shifter hits your seat. Even with my seat slid as far forward as possible which would be the same as if I had the gas tank behind the seat, the shifter is well ABOVE the seat. Looking back at your pictures, the big difference is your seats are mounted much higher than mine. Was that so you could clear the cross support? If so, I guess lowering the seats isn't an option? Here's with the seat all the way back, and all the way forward.

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[mcamera]

roadrashrob
As I was in the city this week, and not at the 818, your post had me second guessing my shifter vs. seat position. The picture I had posted without the seat was simply one I had on my laptop of the shifter.

Tonight when I got to the car I am now even more intrigued by the way your shifter hits your seat. Even with my seat slid as far forward as possible which would be the same as if I had the gas tank behind the seat, the shifter is well ABOVE the seat. Looking back at your pictures, the big difference is your seats are mounted much higher than mine. Was that so you could clear the cross support? If so, I guess lowering the seats isn't an option? Here's with the seat all the way back, and all the way forward.

Yeah I raised the front of my seats to get over the cross bar. That helped me get more sliding range on the driver seat. Even my preferred position has the front of my seat over the crossbar though. I mounted the passenger seat as far back as I could with the FFR rear firewall and it also has the front of the seat over the cross bar. The tilt feels really comfortable in my seats. I can't imagine mounting them flat. Do you have support under your thighs or does only your butt touch the seat?

Here's all the way forward, my setting, and all the way back.
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Here's what my reach looked like when I was playing with the lowered/flipped FFR shifter. Neutral and my furthest reach to 5th gear. I was still playing with seat settings so this looks more forward / not much recline.
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[mcamera]

The shifter saga continues. I swapped out the lever on my ZDM shifter with an AW11 MR2 lever per Craig's (untested) suggestion. It's straighter and about 1" longer. This by itself did not fix my issue but it's an improvement.

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I found that raising the whole shifter 1" upwards improved the clearance to my passenger seat. Enough to fit my finger between the lever and seat. With the cables hooked up I don't think the shifter will move this far so this should be a worst case scenario. Still need to confirm that tonight when I hook up the side-side cable for a check.

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I am being forced to move my handbrake though. Using FFRWRX's suggestion to move the handbrake up, I see a chance to keep it behind the shifter. The shifter cables favor the driver's side of the tunnel so I'm working on a bracket to mount the handbrake on the passenger side. The pics below show the handbrake slightly outside of the tunnel. I want to offset it a little more to keep all of the mechanicals within the tunnel. The cardboard shows the sheet aluminum that will have to cover all of the shifter/hand brake gear. I'm going to try slotting a hole in the rear firewall to capture the stationary piece of the handbrake cable. So the cable end will be sticking out of the firewall and hook up to the handbrake clevis. That's just where everything is falling in place right now. Suggestions and beer are welcome!

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[FFRWRX]

Is it going to interfere with the passenger now? I was looking at the bar in front of the seat in mine; you’ve raised the seat a lot. Instead of raising the whole handbrake, can you raise the front of it to clear the shifter? Not something I would be comfortable doing, but I know someone did cut that bar out; maybe weld one in a little lower? Unless you like the seat in the position you have chosen.

One other suggestion; not sure if it is practical or not. Can you take the cable holder piece from the back of the shifter and mount it on the bottom of the shifter plate? I know the cables attach to the top of the shifter mechanism, and this would put them at an angle (coming up from the rear), but maybe it would still function OK? This would clear the parking brake by a couple more inches.

Rick

[mcamera]

Is it going to interfere with the passenger now? I was looking at the bar in front of the seat in mine; you’ve raised the seat a lot. Instead of raising the whole handbrake, can you raise the front of it to clear the shifter? Not something I would be comfortable doing, but I know someone did cut that bar out; maybe weld one in a little lower? Unless you like the seat in the position you have chosen.

One other suggestion; not sure if it is practical or not. Can you take the cable holder piece from the back of the shifter and mount it on the bottom of the shifter plate? I know the cables attach to the top of the shifter mechanism, and this would put them at an angle (coming up from the rear), but maybe it would still function OK? This would clear the parking brake by a couple more inches.

It doesn't interfere with the passenger. I don't know if my seats are long, but I raised the passenger just enough to get over the crossbar while mounting it as far back as possible. Limited room because the FFR rear firewall sticks out further on the passenger side. I could raise the front of the handbrake but I'm trying really hard to mount it flat so it looks more factory. I agree, I don't see cutting out the crossbar as a good idea. I'm leaving it alone for safety reasons and I do like the tilt my seats have. They support my legs well and are more comfortable this way.

I considered mounting the shifter cable mount underneath the shifter but ruled it out because I'd have to move the mount towards the center more to stay inside the rails and it puts the cable at a worse angle going to the shifter and up to the opening in the firewall. I never tried it so it may not be bad as you're saying but it looks like I won't need to do this. It's definitely an option though. Thanks for brain storming with me, it helps to hear other ideas. I do have some good progress to show below.

I adjusted my handbrake mount to give more clearance to the shifter cable. I now have plenty of room and can move the handle away from the passenger seat a little more.
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I hooked up my side-side cable and as mentioned by another member before, the stick doesn't move as far. The trans finds its gear before the stick hits the passenger seat. So I have lots of clearance now.
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Enough clearance that I don't need to raise my entire shifter up 1" higher. So I removed the 1" spacers and mounted it directly to the rails. Still plenty of clearance. I also found the adjustment on my ZDM bell crank at the trans, that allows me to adjust where the stick is positioned in neutral. So I'm able to tilt the stick further from the passenger seat and fine tune how far the stick moves towards the passenger side. Clearance is no longer an issue and I can lower the handbrake again.
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[mcamera]

This is what I came up with for my handbrake. It took a lot of small adjustments to fit it within the center tunnel, not interfere with the shifter/cables, and have enough room for the stationary piece of the parking brake cable.

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Do I need this impact sensor box? I'm guessing it's for the airbags so no?

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I have (1) 8' shifter cable since I butchered the other one trying to make the backwards plastic FFR shifter work. I hooked it up to test the side-side action on the shifter and then I hooked it up for the forward-backward motion of the shifter and both feel great. It's a huge improvement over the plastic FFR shifter with 14' cables that I temporarily hooked up for go karting. That setup wasn't acceptable for me. The shifting now takes a normal amount of effort, has no slop, and has positive engagement so you can actually tell when you're in gear. The cable is a little too long to nicely route so I ordered 2 new 7.5' cables.

[lance corsi]

Hey, Mac, I used a late model Buick foot style emergency brake. Push on, push off. In combination with a hill holder valve.

[RPGs818SNA]

Looks like your Impact Sensor is part of the Security System and is shown on page SEC-02 (my page 170 of 218) of the wiring diagram. So still a no unless you are keeping your security system.

RPG

[mcamera]

Hey, Mac, I used a late model Buick foot style emergency brake. Push on, push off. In combination with a hill holder valve.

That's a good way to clear up some console space. I wanted to be cheap and use my existing brake cable and I already had the Lokar handbrake from my previous setup which didn't work out.

Looks like your Impact Sensor is part of the Security System and is shown on page SEC-02 (my page 170 of 218) of the wiring diagram. So still a no unless you are keeping your security system.

RPG

I see it on page 172 of my service manual. My car starts, doesn't throw any security codes, and the security light isn't stuck on so I don't think it's required. Looks like it ties into the keyless entry and data link connector though. I'll keep it if it gives me keyless entry.

After several rounds of heating/shaping the headlight lenses I'm finally done. They warp slightly when they cool so it took a few times to dial them in. Taping them down while they're warm helps the edges from curling up when cooling. I've started to fit the rear bumper which is fun to finally see on the car. I also think I received the wrong door sill aluminum. They're labeled with the correct numbers but they don't look like the aluminum in the manual and they don't fit on the door sill.

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[Kiwi Dave]

Hi Mike

Good tip on the headlight lenses!

That aluminum piece looks to be mis-numbered. It seems to be one of the front wheel well splash guard pieces that gets mounted from the inside - 80175 or 80176. It looks like you've notched it for the brake line to pass through already.

Cheers

Dave

[Bob_n_Cincy]

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you can see that piece mounted on the very left of this picture.

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[mcamera]

Thank you Dave and Bob. That piece looks like it's correctly numbered (80130/80131) but it's the Door Sill Front as Bob is showing. I found the Door Sill Rear (80132) which covers the bottom of the door.

[mcamera]

I've been traveling a lot but I'm still working on the car! I ordered and installed 2 new 90" shifter cables. It took some fine tuning but everything moves easily and every gear has positive engagement now. I ran the cables around the engine on the driver side, so it makes (2) 90deg bends. I think those bends are why the shifter is still a little notchy but I'm happy with it. While routing the cables I organized and mounted several items to make the engine bay look better and easier to work on in the future. I extended a few transmission wires, covered all of my wires with some nice split sleeve wire sheathing, mounted the parking brake cable so it wouldn't interfere with moving parts, riveted my lower coolant overflow bottle mount to the frame, and mounted my shifter cables up and away from the axles. It looks much cleaner!

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I've spent many hours aligning the fenders and front nose piece. My front frame that holds the radiator has 1/4" of warp at the front ends so I had to soak up that difference while mounting the body. I had to compromise on a couple areas that are off by 1/8" but mounting the body straight and symmetrical took priority. Everything is lined up well now.

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I bought some plastic honeycomb mesh on Amazon for the front/rear bumpers. I'm happy with the quality but there are 6 areas where the mesh is 2x as thick and it's noticeable from all angles. You can see the 3 areas at the top in this pic. I'll have to grind those down to be the same thickness as the rest of the mesh. I've been playing with some rear bumper designs. Here a few of my favorites.

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[blomb11]

Nice work! I am taking notes of your thread and saving it for later when I get there. I definitely like the black behind the tail lights. I would say the 1st or 3rd pictures are my faves. Very creative and easy to do with the black mesh.

[FFRWRX]

I sort of like the 1st option, but maybe scaling back a bit on how much is cut out. Same with the last one....too much cut out taking it right to the bottom. I like the black behind the lights. May have to borrow some of your ideas there.

[mcamera]

Nice work! I am taking notes of your thread and saving it for later when I get there. I definitely like the black behind the tail lights. I would say the 1st or 3rd pictures are my faves. Very creative and easy to do with the black mesh.

I like the black behind the tail lights too. I would do that with paint or vinyl. The bumper looks good but is a little plain to start out.

I sort of like the 1st option, but maybe scaling back a bit on how much is cut out. Same with the last one....too much cut out taking it right to the bottom. I like the black behind the lights. May have to borrow some of your ideas there.

The 1st is my favorite too. I'm worried it would be hard to make the outside cuts look good since the bumper starts to wrap around the sides there. The last pic I would just paint or add vinyl to the bottom lip of the bumper to make it black. I agree it would be tricky to cut out the bottom that much.

[mcamera]

While I was in Columbus this weekend, I stopped by to check out Scott and Liam's build. It was cool to see all the different ways they've approached their build and it looks like it's coming along great. They're further along than me so I took all the advice I could get.

I've been messing with the driver's door for a week in between travel and have decided that it's good enough for now. It's going to need more adjustments once I add the heavy windows and interior panel, so there's no sense in getting it perfect right now. It closes well but interferes slightly near the door striker and hits the lower front fender when half open for now. I also finally setup my fuel filler. I basically cut the FFR supplied pipe into a 90deg and 45deg elbow to reach my aftermarket Body fuel tank. The fuel filler cap is on my list of things I want to get powder coated black eventually, but I'm becoming more motivated to complete the car in general and worry about some details later.

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[Scott Meyer]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for stopping by Monday and saying hello. Nice to meet you as well! Liam got motivated and is outside now grinding away on our drivers door interior panel to get it to fit!

Say hello to Bruce and Otto for us!

[DSR-3]

Don't forget the ground strap on the neck.

[mcamera]

Don't forget the ground strap on the neck.

Forgot to do that, thanks!

[mcamera]

The doors are fitted and the next step is to drop the hardtop onto the car! But since the hardtop is difficult to remove, I'm doing some finishing work to the other body panels first. One of the two bolts that connected the front fenders to the side pods was hidden under the door skin, so I cut the fender mount and moved the bolt so it's always accessible. That way I don't have to remove the doors if I ever need to take off the fenders. I also cut the side vents bigger which looks much better to me. Still debating if I'll use some kind of mesh behind there.

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I decided to coat the back of the panels with Upol Raptor bed liner. I sanded the panels with an 80 grit foam sanding block, vacuumed the dust, and then wiped it down with Rustoleum Wax & Tar remover (what I use to clean all of my parts before painting). After painting the side pods I think I made a really good choice. It's a 2 part formula (base + hardener) that comes in a 1 gallon kit. But the base comes in 4 bottles so you don't have to make the entire batch at 1 time which is really convenient. So I poured 8oz of hardener into a 24oz bottle of base, shook it up, and then had 60 minutes to use 32oz of mixed Raptor. Which turns out I couldn't paint fast enough to do that. I did a single coat on both side pods and my front nose insert in 60 minutes. I was hurrying after the 1st sidepod took me 35 minutes. The foam roller that came with the kit and a $1 foam brush from Lowes worked well but both fell apart. I plan to use a standard bristle brush for my next batch of panels. You can spray Raptor which should be quicker, but brushing it on is more convenient for me. I didn't have time to paint the white edges of the panels (and you don't want to get this stuff on the pretty side) so I'll paint those black at another time. After 1 hour the finish is even and dry to the touch. It feels very tough but I let them dry for a full day. I would use Raptor again and I'm impressed with the results so far.

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[octobersknight]

Which bolt for the front fender did you move? I have a little more A/C and heater plumbing to do before I start tackling body work, but I want to get all the tips before starting that arduous process. Can you post pics (or description) of the location where you moved that bolt?

[mcamera]

Which bolt for the front fender did you move? I have a little more A/C and heater plumbing to do before I start tackling body work, but I want to get all the tips before starting that arduous process. Can you post pics (or description) of the location where you moved that bolt?

Here's what I did so no body panels were overlapping

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[mcamera]

I got the rear bumper and 2 front fenders done last night. Again, it was a mad dash and I still couldn't use the full quart of Raptor within an hour. It's worth mentioning that this bed liner ate through my solo cup. 5 minutes into painting my cup just collapsed and made a mess. I temporarily moved it to a styrofoam bowl that I had sitting there. I expected it to eat through that (which it did) so I pulled my used paint tray out of the garbage and used that again. The dried liner peeled out of the tray easily so it can be used again. My 2" brush worked great but a larger brush would help speed up painting since you're on a 1hr timer with this stuff.

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[roadrashrob]

Looking good! I don't use Solo cups any longer for exactly that reason. You never know what will eat through them.

As opposed to the "beat the clock" game with a brush, I plan on using the Raptor in spray form: Raptor Spray Add Catalyst, spray, dispose, clean gun.... Easy Peasy, and well under the time limit.

[mcamera]

Spraying will be much quicker. I just don't have the garage space or a large air compressor so brushing was a better option for me. I was surprised that brushing still gave a spray like finish.

[roadrashrob]

Makes sense! Forgot about the required "equipment" to spray! :-) I "rolled" a bed liner on the bottom of the car as was very happy with the results as well!