Tim's Type 65 Build - Cockpit Wiring Finished?

I feel like I am at the stage of my build where it seems nothing is moving forward but I am spending a significant amount of time in the shop. I suppose small items are just as critical as large, they just don't feel quite as impactful. I have continued on my path to install the computer in the dash area. I fabricated some spacers to raise the mounting points of the ECM so it doesn't interfere with the upper footbox sheetmetal:

Attachment 221456

I then cut a hole in my firewall for the computer and mounted it by through-bolting it through the cross frame member on one side and tapping the other with a 1/4-28 thread. I had to tap the inboard bolt as I inadvertently placed this hole over a frame junction and weld. It feels very secure even though it is cantilevered out quite a bit.

Attachment 221457

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Attachment 221458

For those of you (if any) wondering how much space is left between the ECM and the dash, this is for you. I will probably fabricate a support bracket that will be integrated with the dash face panel to support the rear of the ECM even though it doesn't need it. Mostly for piece of mind in the event of fatigue of the mounting ears and potential failure down the road.

Attachment 221459

I also welded in my drive shaft hoop simply because it was easier than bolting. If it ever get's in the way I suppose I can cut it out but I think it's good to go:

Attachment 221460

I repurposed the PDB bracket supplied by Factory Five. I will be using both triangular spaces up front in the engine bay. The PS will be for remote battery posts and the DS for my recovery tank. I actually sent back my Moroso tank to Summit this week so I can obtain a smaller version that will fit in this space. I believe Moroso, Canton and Joe's Racing all have options.

Attachment 221461

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

I repurposed the PDB bracket supplied by Factory Five. I will be using both triangular spaces up front in the engine bay. The PS will be for remote battery posts and the DS for my recovery tank. I actually sent back my Moroso tank to Summit this week so I can obtain a smaller version that will fit in this space. I believe Moroso, Canton and Joe's Racing all have options.

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Please let us know what tank you end up with, Im not thrilled with the Moroso tank either, but I am days away from needing to install it for first start!

I too am interested in what tank you end up with. Space is really tight with my Mk5 build and the Moroso tank. But I'm curious -- do any of the tank options you're considering plumb the same as the Mustang specific Moroso? And others like Mishimoto, UPR, etc.

Has anyone considered this expansion tank?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...RoCQ3UQAvD_BwE

It looks a bit more compact while still having all the same connections.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

I too am interested in what tank you end up with. Space is really tight with my Mk5 build and the Moroso tank. But I'm curious -- do any of the tank options you're considering plumb the same as the Mustang specific Moroso? And others like Mishimoto, UPR, etc.

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It's a great question Paul and one I am wrestling with right now. I purchased a Mishimoto tank from Summit and realized it is simply an overlow recovery tank, not an expansion tank. I called Mishimoto this morning and they confirmed that although those two terms are used somewhat interchangeably, they really are not. I am looking at these three and going to contact each manufacturer to ensure I understand the details:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-200

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/joe-45010

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fld-acccet125pol

My understanding regarding what the Coyote needs is a closed-loop, pressurized coolant recovery system. As long as there are three inlets/outlets, the tank should meet these requirements? Based on the diagram below (posted a few years ago by expert builder edwardb), the line to the radiator is one way and the other two are simply in and out. Now, if there are internal baffles or chambering I am not aware of, that poses an entirely new can of worms.

Attachment 221471

Based on this conversation from Mishimoto, the plastic factory tank does have baffles but it's primarily to prevent sloshing and introducing air during hard cornering (think autocross).

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...shimoto.21251/

So with all that said, if I am way off base or missing a key element in my understanding, please let me know.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

That's odd. I was under the impression many builders had used it with the Coyote. I guess I will have to see. Thanks for the heads up.

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Here is my experience. I used this on my Coyote without issue for just over two years without issue. I just started having problems and Enersys finally agreed to replace the battery under warranty. While Amazon shows the item as having a three year warranty, it seems EnerSys reduced it to two years in 2022.

I am not sure if I got a bad one or if the few times it discharged caused an issue. Either way, the folks at EnerSys stood behind the product after I pushed a bit.

Given you already own the battery and have it installed I would stay the course if I were you.

Today I also fit my wiper motor. Nothing earthshaking, just trying to get all the holes poked in my firewall so I can remove, insulate and permanently install.

Attachment 221499

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Today I also fit my wiper motor. Nothing earthshaking, just trying to get all the holes poked in my firewall so I can remove, insulate and permanently install.

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Have you thought through your firewall extension panels as it relates to the position of your wiper motor? I think you are going to have some interference with your placement.

Looking good, as a side note, maybe some time in December I can swing by and look at the coupe. I would like to see one up close. Should have visited earlier when I could bring the cobra!

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Originally Posted by wedel456

Have you thought through your firewall extension panels as it relates to the position of your wiper motor? I think you are going to have some interference with your placement.

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So, the short answer is no. I sat there and stared at that spot wondering if there was going to be any interference from anything and decided it was going to be OK. I had totally forgotten about those panels which I believe are at the powder coaters at the moment. I appreciate the heads up though. I have room to move it so no real harm done.

EDIT: I just looked at the build manual and you are absolutely correct. Looks like I need to move it about 2" inboard (hard to tell from the photos) to clear the sheet metal. At least it will cover two of the four holes...:mad:

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Originally Posted by F500guy

Looking good, as a side note, maybe some time in December I can swing by and look at the coupe. I would like to see one up close. Should have visited earlier when I could bring the cobra!

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Sure, any time is fine although I am getting rotator cuff surgery on December 12th so probably between now and then would be better. Let me know and I will PM my address.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

I feel like I am at the stage of my build where it seems nothing is moving forward but I am spending a significant amount of time in the shop. I suppose small items are just as critical as large, they just don't feel quite as impactful. I have continued on my path to install the computer in the dash area. I fabricated some spacers to raise the mounting points of the ECM so it doesn't interfere with the upper footbox sheetmetal:

I then cut a hole in my firewall for the computer and mounted it by through-bolting it through the cross frame member on one side and tapping the other with a 1/4-28 thread. I had to tap the inboard bolt as I inadvertently placed this hole over a frame junction and weld. It feels very secure even though it is cantilevered out quite a bit.

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Boy, can I relate to that. It's the tradeoff I suppose for going off script.

That's a clever spot for your PCM. I don't think I've seen that location used before. Definitely tucks it out of the way, minimizing visibility.

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Originally Posted by 460.465USMC

Boy, can I relate to that. It's the tradeoff I suppose for going off script.

That's a clever spot for your PCM. I don't think I've seen that location used before. Definitely tucks it out of the way, minimizing visibility.

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I can't take credit for any cleverness here. Snowman put his in a similar spot but dead center. I offset mine because I had already mounted my PDB and didn't want to move it. I will have to move/lengthen a bit of the engine harness and I am going to shorten the PDB harness by about 3' or 4' so it's a little more involved. But ultimately I think I'll be happy with it.

"Off Script". I love it. I think I threw my script in the recycling bin 6 months ago and am now operating off of cocktail napkins and a white board. Try as I might, I set out to 100% complete a task and find I am missing or needing ________ fill in the blank. So then it's on to another thing. I am not sure how others do it but I seem to have about 6 to 8 items in motion at all times while waiting on Summit, Amazon or additional head scratching.

I have decided to try the Fluidyne expansion tank. It has three inlet/outlets which I believe will work for the Coyote setup. The outlet at the bottom will be the return to the heater fitting at the front of the engine, the other large outlet will be the incoming line from coolant return. I need to determine connections i.e. do I use Ford connectors on the engine side and AN on the tank side or something else?

Here are a few pictures of the tank and where I plan to mount it. I was a bit surprised by it's high polish finish as I guess I missed that in the description.

Attachment 221537Attachment 221538Attachment 221539Attachment 221540

I will need to fashion a bracket to drop the tank about 2" but that should be pretty straight forward. Although I know the return line/overflow from the radiator is in the neck of the tank it does discharge directly into it so I am thinking this is OK. If anyone thinks this setup won't work please let me know.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

I will need to fashion a bracket to drop the tank about 2" but that should be pretty straight forward. Although I know the return line/overflow from the radiator is in the neck of the tank it does discharge directly into it so I am thinking this is OK. If anyone thinks this setup won't work please let me know.

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So this is interesting to me because I'm also playing the space game with my Mk5 build. The usual Moroso and similar tanks might fit. But I'm also looking at alternatives. One possibility I'm looking at is the Mishimoto MMRT-MUS-24. For 2024+ Mustangs and is more square and deeper. But I digress and will be interested in how this tank works for you. For grins, I looked inside the Moroso tank in my Coupe. Even though it has coolant, I was able to confirm (1) there are no internal baffles, and (2) the two small connections at the top don't go anywhere. They stop after going through the sides. I thought maybe one or both routed to the bottom into fluid or whatever. Not the case. Since that tank has worked fine on the Coupe and my previous Roadster (plus many other builders) I'm thinking any tank with similar plumbing would also work. Like the one you are looking at. My only thought (concern...) about that tank is (1) Less capacity. An issue? (2) The Ford cap is rated for 21 PSI. That's relatively high for a standard cap like the one in the picture you posted. I don't know if it matters. Good luck.

I know there have been some posts on this in the past but I never really understood. Is there a downside to using the standard reservoir FF includes with the coyote?

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Originally Posted by edwardb

So this is interesting to me because I'm also playing the space game with my Mk5 build. The usual Moroso and similar tanks might fit. But I'm also looking at alternatives. One possibility I'm looking at is the Mishimoto MMRT-MUS-24. For 2024+ Mustangs and is more square and deeper. But I digress and will be interested in how this tank works for you. For grins, I looked inside the Moroso tank in my Coupe. Even though it has coolant, I was able to confirm (1) there are no internal baffles, and (2) the two small connections at the top don't go anywhere. They stop after going through the sides. I thought maybe one or both routed to the bottom into fluid or whatever. Not the case. Since that tank has worked fine on the Coupe and my previous Roadster (plus many other builders) I'm thinking any tank with similar plumbing would also work. Like the one you are looking at. My only thought (concern...) about that tank is (1) Less capacity. An issue? (2) The Ford cap is rated for 21 PSI. That's relatively high for a standard cap like the one in the picture you posted. I don't know if it matters. Good luck.

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Thanks Paul. At this point, I am going to move forward and at least try it. The capacity is a concern of mine but I can't find any information that clarifies what the impact of a smaller tank is other than a reduction in overall system capacity. Just for fun, I looked up the capacity of a 2020 Mustang tank and it's just over a gallon so that didn't really shed any light. There are many tanks similar in size and shape to the Mishimoto you called out, I just can't use them if I am committed to the space I want to use. I overlooked the PSI rating of the tank cap so that's something I'll need to consider. I know the tank itself is pressure tested to 35 psi so it shouldn't be an issue changing out the cap if needed. Fingers crossed.

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Originally Posted by MSumners

I know there have been some posts on this in the past but I never really understood. Is there a downside to using the standard reservoir FF includes with the coyote?

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From a functionality standpoint, no. I simply wanted to use the Boig cool tubes and like the idea of the cap and reservoir being a discreet unit. So we introduce all this complexity for the sake of how it looks...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MSumners

I know there have been some posts on this in the past but I never really understood. Is there a downside to using the standard reservoir FF includes with the coyote?

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

From a functionality standpoint, no. I simply wanted to use the Boig cool tubes and like the idea of the cap and reservoir being a discreet unit. So we introduce all this complexity for the sake of how it looks...:rolleyes:

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There is a little more to it. First off it's how the engineers at Ford designed it to work. Blocking off multiple connections on the Coyote may be OK. Many have done it. But not my personal choice. Probably the biggest advantage is it's "self-burping" meaning no air will be trapped in the cooling system. This can be a problem to clear and bad if you don't know. Again, not insurmountable at all. But with the OE system, it takes care of it. Just keep filling the expansion tank until the level is stable (e.g. all the air has been evacuated) and you're done. Granted, only an issue for the original fill and then later when the coolant is changed. But nice to not have to worry about it. Final point, although minor, is it's a closed system. Under normal use, it doesn't dump coolant. A traditional overflow tank can.

Took the time today to put the ancillary items on the engine prior to installation. I had a bit of an issue with the KRC kit missing hardware and an incorrect spacer but I worked through it. I can honestly say the AC belt comes in a solid 2nd place behind the pumpkin installation as a giant PITA. Followed the directions and got it on but it was a bear. Here are a couple of pictures:

Attachment 221710Attachment 221709

I also prepped the oil and water sending units for installation. I had to order an M14 allen socket to remove the plug in the block so I wans't able to install them.

Attachment 221711

FYI - Coyote with standard 1.2kW reduction starter draws ~100 amps cranking (I have confirmed this previously for another forum member). As Paul says, that battery should do it easily.



Cheers,

Nige

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Took the time today to put the ancillary items on the engine prior to installation. I had a bit of an issue with the KRC kit missing hardware and an incorrect spacer but I worked through it. I can honestly say the AC belt comes in a solid 2nd place behind the pumpkin installation as a giant PITA. Followed the directions and got it on but it was a bear.

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Looking good, Tim. Coming together nicely. Can't wait to see it nestled in your engine bay.

Ditto on the spacer - too long. Ditto X2 on that AC belt. Let's hope we never have to replace it down the road, from inside the engine bay. No bueno.

Installed the stud kit from Moroso and got the pan buttoned up. As I noted in another thread, the Moroso oil pickup bolted right in. Used paper towels to seal off the openings in case I decided to fumble a 10mm nut down into the innards.

Attachment 222048

Pan installed and both motor mounts bolted up

Attachment 222049

The jumble of sending units are installed. I don't know what others have found, but the orientation shown is the only way I could get the oil pressure Frankenstein sending unit to fit and be possibly serviceable. Any other way it hits the alternator or is really, really close to the headers.

Attachment 222050

And here it is, ready for install.

Attachment 222051

Very nice Tim… nice to see the gen4x finding its way home …. Mine is still a long way out from getting there Attachment 222053

Thanks Mark. Your picture reminded me that I purchased Summit's lifting plate which I need to bolt up. I'm curious, did you leave the throttle body on the manifold and simply disconnect the electronics and fuel rails to remove it as a unit? Seems like the easiest way to do it.

Glad to hear no nuts were sacrificed into the Coyote's inner abyss! Phew.

Thanks for the picture on the sending unit orientation. I haven't done mine yet. Looks like there are some changes compared to the Gen 3.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Installed the stud kit from Moroso and got the pan buttoned up. As I noted in another thread, the Moroso oil pickup bolted right in. Used paper towels to seal off the openings in case I decided to fumble a 10mm nut down into the innards.

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Newbie question. It seems much easier to swap the oil pan with the engine flipped over.
I vaguely recall someone suggesting not to do this, but is that the risk of dropping hardware inside the engine, or is there another reason?

Thanks,
Jon

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Originally Posted by JTG

Newbie question. It seems much easier to swap the oil pan with the engine flipped over.
I vaguely recall someone suggesting not to do this, but is that the risk of dropping hardware inside the engine, or is there another reason?

Thanks,
Jon

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No reason that I am aware. Most engines and engine stands are designed to rotate 360 degrees. There would be no way to assemble the bottom end on one otherwise. You can change the pan and other items without turning it over but I found it much easier to do so with it inverted. You just need to make sure you drain the oil (into a clean container so you can reuse it) and cap the PCV before you turn it upside down.

Definitely necessary to take some precautions with hardware as a screw or bolt into the bowels of the engine will definitely ruin your day.

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Originally Posted by 460.465USMC

Glad to hear no nuts were sacrificed into the Coyote's inner abyss! Phew.

Thanks for the picture on the sending unit orientation. I haven't done mine yet. Looks like there are some changes compared to the Gen 3.

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I will be curious to see if your interpretation is the same as mine. I tried several configurations and this was the best I could come up with.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Thanks Mark. Your picture reminded me that I purchased Summit's lifting plate which I need to bolt up. I'm curious, did you leave the throttle body on the manifold and simply disconnect the electronics and fuel rails to remove it as a unit? Seems like the easiest way to do it.

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Not Mark. But I used an MMR manifold lifting plate when installing the Aluminator in my build. I assume yours will be the same. Once you remove the 10 manifold bolts, just unplug and remove whatever connectors are still attached (i.e. injectors, throttle body, etc.) plus any hoses. Nothing else to take apart. The manifold lifts off intact including the throttle body, fuel rails, etc. My documentation shows the 10 bolts go back in at 100 inch pound + 35 degrees, which is what I did.

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

No reason that I am aware. Most engines and engine stands are designed to rotate 360 degrees. There would be no way to assemble the bottom end on one otherwise. You can change the pan and other items without turning it over but I found it much easier to do so with it inverted. You just need to make sure you drain the oil (into a clean container so you can reuse it) and cap the PCV before you turn it upside down.

Definitely nessecary to take some precautions with hardware as a screw or bolt into the bowels of the engine will definitely ruin your day.

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Thanks! That was my understanding as well, but it's nice to have confirmation.

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Originally Posted by edwardb

Not Mark. But I used an MMR manifold lifting plate when installing the Aluminator in my build. I assume yours will be the same. Once you remove the 10 manifold bolts, just unplug and remove whatever connectors are still attached (i.e. injectors, throttle body, etc.) plus any hoses. Nothing else to take apart. The manifold lifts off intact including the throttle body, fuel rails, etc. My documentation shows the 10 bolts go back in at 100 inch pound + 35 degrees, which is what I did.

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Awesome, thanks Paul. I was hoping this was the case. Mine has a vertical fin with three holes. I believe yours has the lifting eye, which is a nice feature. I think one of the greatest benefits is how high you can lift the engine. I have had a bit of a snafu with my wheels and think I am going to install my engine and transmission with my car wheelless on the lift. I can get it pretty low and now I can raise the chunk of drive line fairly high so going to give it a go this coming weekend.

This update is a bit of a hodgepodge (as usual). I have been making progress in lots of little areas that move the pile forward, but aren’t particularly newsworthy. I have mapped out the changes in the main Coyote harness as well as the RF harness. I will be shortening most of the legs of the PDB harness by about 30”. This will be a pretty sizable undertaking but I’m going to manage it one wire at a time.

I decided a while back to replace most of the terminated harness connections with Deutsch/Amphenol connectors. I am using both the DT and DTP versions. Planning on using them on all four corners for the lighting circuits, the dash bundle and any locations that can benefit from a smaller, tighter connection. This isn’t really meant to be an RF bash (more of a PSA) but since making this decision I have found multiple connectors loosely or incorrectly crimped in the supplied harness. Some of which are on the higher amperage wire. I would encourage everyone to give their harness terminations a wire-by-wire “tug” test while installing, as one of my headlight wires came apart during normal handling.

One of the first items I used the connectors on was the heater control valve, pictured below. I liked the idea of being able to unbolt the heater hoses at front of the footbox, remove the screws holding the top of the foot box, disconnect the electrical fitting and have full access to the AC unit. You can see in the first picture how I routed the wire bundle to the underside. Maybe overkill, but it works for me.
Attachment 222405

Attachment 222412

I have also been buttoning up the last of my aluminum install. Closed out the footboxes which I left open as long as I could. I also permanently mounted the lower trans tunnel covers from Brent @ Snakebite as well as the forward side covers. I also purchased the undrilled main tunnel cover as well as the sloped forward piece from him as well. I am still debating how I am going to manage the top of the trans tunnel. I want both panels removable, but I'm not sure what fastening technique I am going to use.

Attachment 222410

Attachment 222411

I also mounted my overflow/expansion bottle. I am pretty happy with this location but had a bit of a scare. I was originally going to mount it a bit lower but realized belatedly the 90 degree barb coming out of the bottom would conflict with the steering rack. Easy enough to raise an inch and gain more clearance so I am going to claim a win with this one.

Attachment 222413

Ultimately, I was hoping to install my engine this weekend, but I’m not sure that will work out. I am going to be taking an extended break starting next Friday after I have my rotator cuff repair. With only one wing available for several weeks, I think my progress will grind to a slow crawl. This Saturday will be one year since my kit delivery and I thought the engine install would be a nice milestone. We’ll see.

Tim,

Your work is looking really clean. For the trans tunnel cover, I used this on my MK4:

https://a.co/d/ccJdZ7q

It works really good and I'll be using it again on my Coupe.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Papa

Tim,

Your work is looking really clean. For the trans tunnel cover, I used this on my MK4:

https://a.co/d/ccJdZ7q

It works really good and I'll be using it again on my Coupe.

Dave

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Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. I have looked at that exact material. Good to know you have had success with it.

EDIT: I'm curious if the adhesive is adequate for fastening or did you use low profile rivets or something of that nature?

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Originally Posted by PNWTim

Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. I have looked at that exact material. Good to know you have had success with it.

EDIT: I'm curious if the adhesive is adequate for fastening or did you use low profile rivets or something of that nature?

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I just used the adhesive. I've pulled the tunnel cover once since originally installed and it was a not easy like typical Velcro to separate the cover from the frame. I'll use small pieces next time. I'd run it the entire length of the cover on the MK4.

I coincidentally recently installed the same tank in the same location. I've run thru a few heat cycles with the Gen4x and all seems to be ok, it gets up to temp and then fluctuates slightly up and down as the thermostat opens/closes and the fan goes on and off. With this said I don't think it is really functioning as intended for the coyote. The 1/4' barb fitting at the top of the tank is on the non-pressurized side of the cap and is meant to be a drain for overflow coolant, not a return from the engine as the coyote cooling diagram shows. I'm pretty committed as I already cut my cover panel from Snakebite to fit the tank so I'm having an additional 1/4" bung welded in to the pressurized side of the tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1764891269

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1764891269


If you are using the tank with the Factory Five style coolant system it should be fine, but if you are trying to mimic the cooling system for the Coyote like a Mustang would use then it might not work out. My plan, worst case if the additional bung doesn't do the trick for some reason, is to go to the Factory Five style system and this will be strictly an overflow tank.

I found the same steering interference you did and solved it the same way. I should probably rotate my hose clamp to buy a couple more millimeters

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1764891576

Tim, Everything is coming along nicely! Sorry to hear your shoulder will be slowing your progress. I had surgery during my build and spent my recovery time working on wiring harness mods and other small tasks. Good luck!

Here’s another option for securing the trans tunnel cover. It’s designed to hold the windshields onto golf carts. I used a couple of ~4-5” lengths that I riveted to the cover. I was worried the Velcro would pull off one surface or the other… probably would not have been an issue. Over 6000 miles on the car and I have never had to take the cover off yet.

https://a.co/d/eofnbuk

Looking really nice! Talk with your PT or OT after surgery. After I had a couple of surgeries they allowed me to work on building my engine as part of my exercises. They told me not to do both or I would over do it and that the exercises were designed to get you up and doing things.

Thanks for the feedback on the tank. I contacted Fluidyne and they assured me this would work as an expansion/degas tank. I was planning on running that barb on the neck to the radiator which as I understand it, is functioning as a return line to vent or prevent excess air in the system. If pressure builds above the PSI of the cap it will return the coolant to the radiator. I don't know that it matters if it is on the pressurized side of the tank or not since it can't go anywhere but the radiator and there is a check valve in the line.

I readily admit, I have a somewhat limited understanding of how this operates but I have seen builds where they eliminate the degas tank altogether and simply use an overflow tank. It is not recommended to eliminate the steam lines so my plan was to have the primary inlet be on the bottom of the and the primary return on the side of the tank.

Either way, like you, I am committed and we'll see what happens. I can always change it down the road if it turns out it's not functional or causing cooling issues.