Nice looking start. Very organized as always. Beautiful pictures and detailed posts. I dig the silver powder coating on the frame and the wire wheels. Going to be another sweet ride. Adios
T.poe
Printable View
Nice looking start. Very organized as always. Beautiful pictures and detailed posts. I dig the silver powder coating on the frame and the wire wheels. Going to be another sweet ride. Adios
T.poe
Dropped the LS3 and 4L65E trans into the chassis this week. Planning for it to stay there. Like when I did the mockup, had the headers installed plus everything on the front runner. Did take the starter motor off. But in hindsight probably could have left that on. My build buddy came over to give me a hand and we were done in less than an hour. Would have been quicker except we were struggling to get the right angle and the right clearances to get it into the final location. Just didn't make sense since it had gone in easily the last time. Then discovered the two geniuses doing the work had the tailshaft of the transmission below the frame at the back instead of above. Fixed that and it settled right into place. This first picture is a little strange. For whatever reason the perspective makes it look like the engine couldn't possibly fit into the chassis. Refer to second picture.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1626559989
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1626559989
With that, started adding parts. Pretty good list. Steering column and wheel, steering shaft with power assist and five (that's right...) u-joints, brake MC booster and pedal, starter motor, driveshaft, shifter and shifter cable, e-brake handle and cables, and (added after the pictures below) the four SS brake flex lines from the chassis to the calipers. I used the chassis locations for the flex lines shown in the manual. They worked well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1626559989
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1626559989
I’m now in the process of laying out brake and fuel lines. One observation is that the location outlined in the manual for the fuel and brake lines on the bottom are a little close maybe to the muffler. I posted a separate thread about it and received several suggestions. I think it’s going to be OK. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...e-Line-Routing. Another little wrinkle for the brake lines is the Wilwood dual master cylinder I'm using has separate ports for the left and right front wheels. So instead of the usual single line and then crossover from one caliper to the other, I'll be running two separate lines to the front.
I’ve used rigid stainless for both brake and fuel lines on my last few builds. I like it a lot. But it definitely adds more work. I will probably use plain steel for the brake lines and leaning towards all flex for the fuel lines. I’m not a fan of the materials included in the kit. I don’t care for the green tubing, want larger fuel lines than what’s provided, and in general don’t like all the pieces and unions. Many use the kit materials and it works. Just my personal preference. Still planning and working.
I’ve also started working on how I’m going to lay out the power cables, transmission cooler (powered unit under the bed in the back), and harness routing. All takes time and progress won’t seem so obvious.
For grins, close with this picture from the bottom. Kind of cool.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1626561170
It’s been a couple weeks since an update. But I’ve been busy. Mostly under the general category of plumbing. So button up. This could get long. The build manual shows basic setup and routing for everything. But based on my engine choice and other build decisions, only some of it’s applicable. So after doing lots of studying, along with reviewing other build threads, dove in.
First a quick word about my thought process. As anyone who has built one of these knows, regardless of model there are a lot of interdependencies. One thing can easily affect another. Intentionally or not. If you haven't found that out yet, at some point you will. My approach is to start with things that either can’t move or have limited flexibility. Then move to the next thing in line with a little more flexibility. And so on ending with whatever has the most flexibility.
So with that started with the e-brake cables. Very often those have a fixed or very limited routing that takes into account the cables, attachment points, brakes, etc. That definitely was the case with this build. The optional Wilwood rear brakes have the e-brake attachment on the front and the cable comes in from the bottom. Really only one routing along the floor and through the chassis. Both are connected and working. I don't expect to use the e-brake too much to be honest. With the park position on the auto trans locking the drivetrain. But it's there. I had these same Wilwood single cylinder rear calipers on my #7750 Roadster build. They needed helper springs added at the cable attachment to release reliably. Others experienced the same thing. Doesn't look like these do. Looks like Wilwood beefed up the circular spring on the e-brake lever.
Next up, everyone’s favorite. Brake lines. As I mentioned in my last update, I’ve done rigid SS in my last several builds and really like the final product. But it’s a lot more work and even with the right tools can be challenging. Couple that with my go-to source for SS tubing, where I could buy in straight lengths versus coiled, is no longer allowing counter sales. They’ve gone 100% to on-line sales. They’ll sell me the tubing, but only shipped and coiled. Even though they’re about 20 minutes away. Just not wanting to try to straighten SS tubing. So for this build, I decided to go steel. I know many like NiCopp. But I prefer the slightly stiffer steel. The Classic Tube C3 Tubing I bought from Summit came coiled. But fairly large with soft bends and straightened OK by hand without any special tools. It’s zinc coated and in this application (e.g. garaged, fair weather car) not too worried about corrosion or rust. My Eastwood professional flaring tool easily makes dead-on perfect flares in the steel every single time. More about that later…
For the brake line layout, in the front I deviated quite a bit from the build manual because of the dual master cylinder on the firewall (versus the Wilwood pedal box inside) plus the master cylinder has two lines for the front brakes. One to each side. So I routed the two lines along the top of the round frame rail rather than on the lower frame rail as in the manual. If I were going to have an open engine bay, may not choose the top of the rail. But I’m going to have the side covers. One to the LH side. The other crossed over to the RH side. Pretty straightforward.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1627779080
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1627779080
For the rear brakes, went down the firewall, along the underside to the back, up to the LH side where it feeds there plus crosses over to the RH side. Similar to how shown in the manual.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1627779080
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1627779131
All the runs are one piece. No unions. Relatively easy to do except for the front to back run. Note I did use the kit provided brake lines. Used them for patterns. Once I had a piece fitting the way I wanted, then duplicated in the single steel line. I don’t trust myself to make them exactly right the first time. Just don’t do it often enough.
With that done, no reason not to put fluid in the system and bleed it, right? Good way to check your work plus cross off a pretty big milestone. Wilwood was nice enough to include fittings and hoses for bench bleeding their dual master cylinder. Nice.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1627779080
With that, a pretty big mess. All four connections between the MC and the compensation valve (visible in the picture above) leaked. With nothing more than gravity pressure in the MC. Note these are SS lines that were included with the power brake assembly I had so much trouble getting after I ordered it. Talked about it a bunch early in the build thread. Tried the usual practice of backing off the tube nuts a bit and re-tightening. Nothing helped. So, drained all the brake fluid out of the MC (man I hate that stuff) and took things apart. What I found were the worst flares you can imagine. Especially the front longer one. Crooked and off-center. Just very poor quality to say the least. I had some scrap SS tubing on hand, so made new pieces. Better, but still leaked at the MC. Took things apart again and found that the Wilwood flare adapters into the MC were damaged due to the bad flares. The adapters are aluminum. The brake lines are much tougher SS. And I probably was too aggressive tightening. Regardless, the seats were damaged to the point they’d never seal. Fortunately, Summit had the Wilwood adapters in stock and on my porch the next day. After sleeping on it, decided to make new lines again but this time out of steel. A little more malleable and maybe give me a better chance of sealing and not tearing up the aluminum. So that’s what I did and with new adapters and new lines now no leaks. Good grief. Didn’t see that one coming.
For bleeding, for all my builds I’ve done pressure bleeding using air pressure in the reservoirs. Not an easy option with the very traditional dual MC with integral reservoir. So decided to use the standard pedal down/pedal up bleeding with my wife as the pedal operator and me opening and closing the bleeders at the calipers. After some explaining on how it would work (which I really didn’t think was mansplaining…) went around all four corners twice and had a hard pedal. One leak at a banjo fitting I didn’t have quite tight enough and everything else was good. Went around one last time to confirm zero bubbles and called it good. Further testing and no leaks or runs. Brakes all work of course. Pretty happy about that. One thing I noticed FYI is the Wilwood 6-piston front calipers (same as on my Anniversary Roadster and Gen 3 Coupe) no longer have separate bleeders on each caliper. You used to have the bleed those calipers twice. Once on each side. Now only has bleeders on the inner caliper. Another Wilwood change. But makes things a bit simpler.
Next up, fuel lines. Again, I’ve used 3/8” rigid SS on my last builds but decided to go with all -6 AN SS flex. Just to keep it simple plus again not being able to easily get straight tubing. Also decided, as I mentioned before, to put the regulator in the back by the tank rather than run two lines all the way to the engine. I already had the Aeromotive regulator. So it’s mounted in a not too handy spot. But I’ve found once set I haven’t had to adjust. So no big deal. Easy to see why the GM Corvette fixed regulator many use is popular to mount back there. Other than the regulator location, the setup is the same I’m used on multiple builds now. A Pro-M Racing full 3/8” pump hangar, Trick Flow TFX canister fuel filter, and -6 AN flex and connectors hooking it all together. A very solid and robust setup that's probably overkill. But it works and has been trouble free in the other builds. I’ve pretty much standardized on using Aeroquip hose and fittings. Lots of choices. I just find the quality and reliability to be excellent and I’m used to how it goes together. I pressure tested each hose section after putting the ends on. This is what I ended up with. I angled things to cut down a bit on bends.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1627779109
The fuel line goes down a frame rail (seen in the previous brake line pic), along the bottom, up the firewall, and over to the connection on the LS3.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1627779080
So this is where I addressed another issue mentioned before. The fuel and brake lines are relatively close to the muffler on the LH side. In the other thread I mentioned previously, I asked for feedback on how best to address. Responses ranged from “it’s OK as is” to several different routing options. Many it seemed weren’t using the running board mounts which I need to account for in my build. I decided to go ahead and run in the area as far away as I could. I put the brake line farthest out, just short of where the running board brackets would be if at their maximum adjustment in. Then ran the fuel line right next to that wrapped with a 36” piece of Thermo-Tec 14005 Heat Protection Thermo-Sleeve. At the last minute, decided to use a piece of 3/8” rigid SS tubing in that section. It’s slightly lower profile, maybe even more heat tolerant than the flex, and a perfect fit for the Thermo-Sleeve. Plus I had it along with the compression fittings on hand from previous builds. The picture of the brake line posted previously was before the fuel line was added. This is with the fuel line added. The angle of the picture makes it look closer than it is. Closest at one corner to the muffler is about 1-1/2 inches. It’s more than that everywhere else. I think it will be fine.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1627779131
Next up, transmission cooler. With the small radiator plus A/C condenser, no chance for a transmission cooler in the usual location in front of the radiator. So I opted for a powered Derale Cooling Products 13950 mounted under the bed in the back. Decided on a location on the RH side, mounted in-line so I could run the cooling lines up to the transmission through the top corner of the driveshaft tunnel. Decided to run -6 AN lines for this too. Lower profile than the supplied rubber lines plus allowed me to use right angle connectors coming out of the transmission. Not a lot of space under there to the cover. I had to fab a piece to add to the supplied cooler mount to reach the frame on one side. But pretty easy otherwise. I initially hung the unit with tapped 1/4-20 holes in the frame. But after sleeping on it, came back and replaced with 1/4-20 nutserts. The unit isn’t that heavy. But realized filled with fluid it would be a bit heavier and only hanging on a couple threads. Probably would have been OK but better to be safe at this point.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1627779109
Not final routed or tied down yet, but the lines up to the transmission. Here you can also see the transmission vent tube. ACDelco 15859984. Need to tie that down too.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1627779109
Speaking of vent tubes, picked up the usual Ford 4R3Z-4022-AA vent for the 8.8 axle. This is my first time using a Moser axle, and found they tap a larger hole in the axle than the standard Ford part. A quick forum search found a solution. Added an Earl's Performance AT916144ERL fitting. Fits into the Moser threads and the Ford vent goes in the other end. Also added my diff gear lube. Worked fast to dump in the 4 ounces of friction modifier. Only smelled bad for a little while. Some have reported the cover on Moser diffs leak. So far mine hasn’t. Wish me luck.
Started but not much progress on running my main power line. From the rear battery location, I’m going run the #2 cable also through the driveshaft tunnel up to a feedthrough on the firewall. Starter and alternator connected on the engine side. RF panel and LS power connected on the cab side. Speaking of the battery, I have to add this. I realize that economics comes into play with every part that Factory Five provides. But the battery mounting hardware included with this kit is probably one of the cheapest and poorest parts I’ve ever received. It doesn’t fit recommended Odyssey PC925 battery well at all, bends when tightened, and still doesn’t keep the battery from moving around. Come on! After looking at several purchase options, I just made a new holder from some scrap aluminum and a couple 5/16 x 6" carriage bolts.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1627779109
Finally, started looking at heater lines from the LS water pump to the already installed manifold on the firewall to the Vintage Air unit in the cab. The two connections for the water pump are very close to the top round frame rail.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1627779182
I thought maybe with molded 90 degree hoses I could clear the frame. So picked up some Gates hoses with molded ends. Even if I cut them down as much as possible I don’t think there’s enough room. So my plan now, after looking at options, is to remove those pressed in ends in the water pump and tap the openings for right angle fittings. It’s a common LS mod from what I can see. I've received the fittings and will tackle that soon. Not sure whether I can tap in place. Or will have to remove the water pump and do on the bench. Would have to take the entire frontrunner setup back off. So trying to avoid if possible. I think the molded Gates hoses will still be useful with the new fittings.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1627784774
Also in the general category of plumbing, went to the local parts store to get a piece of hose to connect the engine vacuum to the power brake booster. Instructions (and my experience) say only to use vacuum rated hose made just for that purpose. The counter guy said they didn't have any (even though the website says they did) and came back out with a piece of fuel hose. Said "that's what everyone uses." Um, no. Ordered the proper hose on Amazon. Should have been simpler than that, but done.
OK. That’s really it. Still on my plumbing list are A/C lines and radiator hoses. Have to bend some lines for the condenser in the radiator since I didn’t use the Factory Five A/C kit. And I’m procrastinating on the radiator hoses. Going to be challenging I think. Mostly for the lower one.
The Coupe turned 3,000 miles this past week. Still loving it. I’m not just working in the garage.
Quick update. Sometimes a plan comes together. Decided to tackle the right angle heater hose connections at the LS water pump. Wasn’t too hard to get the existing fittings out. They’re just pressed in. Initial grab with a pair of vice grips crushed them without budging. But a few quick hits with a punch where they go into the pump and that was enough to grab again and get out. I was hoping to be able to tap the threads in place. But not enough room to the frame rails for the larger tap. No surprise I guess. So had to take enough of the front runner apart to get the water pump out. Wasn’t too bad and in hindsight having the water pump clamped to my workbench for tapping was better then trying to do it in place anyway. Also with it open was able to confirm I got all the chips out. The holes were just the right size for the 3/8 and 1/2 inch NPT taps. Sometimes YouTube videos do have the right information. Tapped each one far enough in to put the right angle adapters at the right depth and position, cleaned things up, and back onto the engine and everything back together with a good dose of thread sealant on the new fittings. Total time a little under two hours. Slight panic because you have to put the pieces in place in just the right order and position. The smaller one first with the end pointing away. Then the larger one. Then set them both to the final positions. Takes a little advance planning. Otherwise they run into each other going in. With them pointing down, my 90 degree molded hoses are going to work perfectly. I’ll finalize the exact routing along with the A/C hoses.
For reference, the adapters are Gardner-Westcott Company J9002 3/8 in. NPT, 5/8 in. Hose Barb, and Gardner-Westcott Company 7-69HHB-12X8 1/2 in. NPT, 3/4 in. Hose Barb.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1627913421
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1627913421
That worked out great!
Hi Paul, Nice work and photos as always. Wish I would have seen this sooner. Some folks drill and tap the water pump for the LS3 steam vent. So in true build fashion if you decide to go that route the pump may need to come out again.
I have not addressed my transmission vent yet, does that AC Delco part connect to anything other than the vent on the transmission?
Thanks,
Ed
Thanks. For the steam vent, based on my study of options right after I received the engine I've been planning to route to the upper radiator hose. My idea right now is I will probably replace the kit supplied plastic T-filler with a metal one and drill/tap the fitting for the steam line into that. Many put an added adapter into the upper radiator hose with a connection. But that's an additional cut in the line with two more clamps and more places to maintain and leak. Plus the upper hose ends up pretty short overall. I think the T-filler will be the best choice. For that vent hose, the only connection to the trans is the small line coming out of the case where it's attached in my pic. The front length of hose has a plastic one-way valve and it just gets routed forward and tied off somehow. The rear hose is where the fluid would come out if it came to that. So it needs to be routed to the underside and tied off. Both of those are still TBD on my build based on adding everything else that has to go in then will decide how best to route and tie them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by McGuyver
What I did on the LS I am building is exactly that Paul, ran the steam vent line to the T filler, drilled and tapped a 1/8 pipe fitting and connected it to it. Worked out perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Not as much done this week. Family visit cut into build time. But I’ll take a visit from our youngest son, wife and 15-month-old granddaughter any time. Special memories. With the house just a bit quieter, back to the build.
Wrapped up items mentioned previously and then a few new things. This is where the visible progress really slows down because of the detail work required. Mainly focused on the heat and A/C plumbing. The 90-degree adapters into the water pump for the heater lines worked out great. Routed the hoses under the motor mount and then up to the Vintage Air manifold. Then wrapped up all but two connections for the A/C hoses. Spent a lot of time finding the optimal hose routing and location for the receiver/dryer. There is a little space between the chassis tubes and the engine cover sides, so was prepared to go outside with hoses if I had to. Need to stay as far away from the exhaust header as possible. But found a setup that stays inside the chassis but still far enough away. I hope.
Mounted the receiver/dryer in a similar location as Factory Five shows for their A/C installation. Used an Allstar Performance ALL36125 tank bracket with hose clamps instead of the straps that came with it. Those are handy little brackets. Have also used for mounting charcoal cannisters at the gas tank. Crimped all the hoses with the Mastercool 71550 manual A/C hose crimper purchased during the Coupe build. It’s a nice tool that does a good job. I have two connections remaining. There are two hard lines coming out of the condenser in front of the radiator. I’m not using the Factory Five A/C setup and the two hard line pieces that came with the Vintage Air condenser aren’t quite right. Didn’t expect they would be. I was originally going to try bending my own using two of the Vintage Air “U-Bend-Em” lines. But upon further review, decided to have custom ones made. Vintage Air offers this service based on patterns you send. Completed that process and they should have them tomorrow. Don’t know what the turnaround time is. But not holding me up right now. When received, will button up the system and vacuum check.
Mounted the kit supplied radiator overflow tank in the location they show in the manual. Tight but it fits there. Also mounted my windshield washer tank/pump assembly on the right side above the Vintage Air manifold. The Michigan safety inspection requires washers. I’ve talked my way out of them a couple times. But have them in the Coupe and decided to go ahead with them here too if there was room. Found a very nice reservoir/pump assembly from a company called Chase Bays. Haven’t heard of them before. But it’s a nice piece and received not long after ordering. All aluminum with a decent looking pump. Not huge capacity. But more than enough to be legal and useable if needed. They also advertise it as an intercooler sprayer. Only thing left is the Lokar transmission dipstick. It will attach to the firewall somewhere. But leaving loose for now until the body and hood are installed. Just to be sure of the location.
Also installed the LS3 PCM, power distribution box, and laid in the main LS3 cable harness with attachments across the top front of the firewall. Lots of work there to clean things up and finalize all the routings and connections. Pictures showing all the above.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1628532998
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...2&d=1628532998
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1628533038
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1628533038
Today I’ve started (just barely…) with wiring. I’m using the standard Ron Francis harness along with the harnesses that come with the LS3 engine controller kit, the transmission controller, the Vintage Air setup, the power steering, and the cruise control. Feel like I’m forgetting something. Anyway, lots of wires. Set the rear RF harness in place. Will need to reconfigure just a bit plus add some wires for the backup lights and transmission cooler. Installed the RF panel and set the main harness in place. I had already stripped off all the convolute. Expecting some major reconfiguration and dieting. Also set the front harness in place. This is probably the most intimidating time for those not comfortable with wiring. Just need to tackle one wire and circuit at a time. It will hopefully look a lot better in the coming weeks.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1628533082
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1628533082
It’s August and that means Woodward Dream Cruise time for us here in SE Michigan. Was cancelled last year but so far on for this year on August 21st. With numerous other events around the same time. Estimated at 1.5 million people and 40,000 classic cars. The Great Lakes Cobra Club will have our usual gathering during the event. So far with about 50 cars signed up and over 100 participants. Will probably add a few more in the next week. Check out the Dream Cruise and stop by and see us if you’re in the area.
Started off the week doing a quick sanity check with the radiator surround and hood sitting in place. Wanted to make sure no surprises with height or interference with where I'd placed everything. Was pretty careful but better to know now than later. All clearances look fine.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1629164625
I’m knee deep into wiring now. Or is that elbow deep? Whatever have made some significant progress. I have the power wiring essentially complete. I ran a 2 gauge cable from the battery, down the top LH corner of the transmission tunnel, and then over to a Blue Sea Systems 2204 terminal feed through placed near the top of the PS firewall. From there, I have a 4 gauge cable going to the bus bar in the cab. Then from that same stud an 8 gauge cable to the input voltage connection on the LS power panel. On the engine side of the feed through, a 4 gauge cable goes to the starter and another 4 gauge cable goes to the alternator through a 150 amp megafuse. Since the starter cable is quite close to the headers (no choice) I wrapped it with DEI Cool Tape. It’s all pretty straightforward.
Next up ran 4 gauge ground cables from the engine to the frame. As per my usual practice, did two. One on the left side from an unused boss on the block to the motor mount. On the right side, ran a 4 gauge cable from under a bolt on the starter to the motor mount. In both cases, where attached to the frame, thoroughly cleaned the powder coat so the lugs are on bare metal. Also did the grounds for the LS harness. Interestingly, the instructions for the LS controller kit are very specific that the grounds for the LS harness go to the engine. Not the frame. There are three short leads that align with open threaded holes in the back of each head. Simple and easy to do. I say interestingly because Ford is equally adamant about the Coyote ground wire going to the frame or ideally directly to the battery negative terminal. Blue oval versus bowtie... :p
Then started in on the RF harness. I reconfigured the rear harness a bit. The splits weren’t in the right places and didn't lay out well. I needed to add wires for the backup light and transmission cooler. Plus the truck rear lights have an integral license plate light on one side. So removed the license plate wire. The front harness I haven’t changed yet. We’ll see on that one. For the main harness, I have it roughly positioned in the dash area. As previously mentioned, I removed all the convolute and am changing and dieting it quite a bit. Took about 15 inches off the ignition switch leg once it was moved to the correct position. The headlight branch, also moved, is pretty OK. I’m going to use the dash harness with the connectors so the dash can be removed. I’ll probably hard wire and remove the front and rear leg connectors. I’ve also eliminated the sending unit and headlight connectors. Certainly shrinks when put on a diet. Once it’s all done, I’ll wrap some convolute or other kind of covering over at least the main branch. These two pictures show where I’m at right now. Still looks a mess but making progress. For the bus bars, the one on the right is battery and always on. The one on the left is on ignition power. Each will have more attachments and also covers.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1629160130
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...1&d=1629160130
So I’m far enough along that I could put power to the what’s installed and start checking things. All good so far. No smoke and voltage at all the right places at the right time. Really like the Ididit column and using the Hot Rod connector. The built-in horn, turn signal and hazard wiring and switches eliminate a lot of messing around. And so far all works perfectly. One of the things I’ve read about in other build threads is the supplied front LED lights. They look like nice pieces with light bars through the middle that can be wired as regular parking lights or DRL’s and shine white. Then the same light bars shine yellow when the turn signals or hazards are used. I like the idea of using them as DRL’s. The instructions in the manual are confusing though. I’ve read them multiple times and still don’t quite get what they’re saying. They say to add wires if doing DRL’s. But then, at least what I can figure, they don’t use RF tan parking light leads. Why not just still use them but separate them back at the main harness and give them an ignition voltage source? In theory they’re on all the time (daytime plus nighttime along with the headlights) and only interrupted (correctly) by turn signals or hazards. Many DD’s work this way. But other threads mention problems when set up this way and suggest different wiring and adding diodes. Like these:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ts-turn-signal
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...41-4-way-issue
So I was prepared to implement some of what are described here. But decided to test first. Attached clip leads to the lights. RF tan parking light leads to the small red DRL leads, left and right RF turn signal leads to the small yellow turn signal leads. I ran through a number of tests, and rather than trying to describe made this short video. This isn’t my thing at all. But hopefully gives the idea.
https://youtu.be/p72F6Zcz0FQ
Seems like everything works OK. Am I missing something? Or maybe something has changed with the lights? The threads also mention that the lights will only show the yellow color if both small leads are powered. Don’t recall that I mentioned that in the video. But tested again just now to confirm. That’s not the case with mine. I can push the hazard button with nothing else on (ignition, headlight switch, whatever) and the 4-way works as it should in the yellow color. Appreciate any feedback on this topic. Hopefully it’s as simple as it seems right now.
Pretty close to wrapping up the RF portion. Plus I have the Ididit headlight relay control nearly installed. Then onward finishing up the LS harness, transmission controller, power steering controller, and cruise control. I’ll be at this a while I think.
What about parking lights off, key off so there are no DRL’s showing, and then turn the 4 ways on? I believe you will have “4 ways” flashing out back, but nothing showing up front until either key or park is turned on.
That is the situation I used the diodes to rectify…and would be a common issue if one was broken down at the side of the road…all you would likely want is 4 ways. ??
Thanks. But I mentioned that near the end of my post. Just not in the video. If I push the hazard button with nothing else on, still works properly. The testing in my post was without the rear lights wired. I'm going to clip in the rear lights and test further. But a quick check this morning with one clipped on and everything still works. Including the brake lights without the brake light wire attached per the instructions. Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Landymore
Honestly my first guess is the light manufacturer has changed the internal switching module so that the diodes aren’t needed.
With my truck there was zero power in the electric choke wire with the key off (which is correct) and no way I could get an orange indicator for either regular signals OR 4 ways without applying power to both the DRL and the signal wire(s) at the same time. That’s how I came up with diode switching.
I know you’ve wired your truck correctly so my guess of a change to the internal module is really the only option.
so do yourself a favor- make sure when you are checking the lights - you have all 4 corners hooked up!
I have had 2 IDIDIT columns have shorts in them - and found them during final assy.... would be much easier to resolve now.
Also in the rear you want to verify that the turn signals and hazards stay engaged (in the rear) when the brake is depressed... I believe you have to remove 1 wire from the connector (pin P) if they don't work correctly
Thanks Erik. In the process right now of hooking up the rear lights to test more thoroughly. I very quickly put one on this AM before doing the wiring addition to the rear lights shown in the instructions. I did notice the hazards stopped flashing when the brake lights were engaged. Didn't test with turn signals. Will check further into the wiring fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
I added wires and diodes for DRL on the HR build simply because I had no idea what the operation of the parking function was so I went with what was simplest for me. With your experience on other builds that include the parking light wiring I'm sure you'll have it covered. If it works, it works!!!
Steve
If it stops flashing with the hazards I suspect it will be the same with turns - disconnecting PIN P should fix that issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
Still testing. But can confirm the brake lights seem to work OK with the turn signals. But the hazards do stop flashing when the brake lights are activated. Almost seems like a fault (or design flaw) in the module in the Ididit column. In actual practice, may not be a problem. Don't typically need the brakes if parked along the side of the road with the hazards flashing. But still shouldn't work that way. Will be testing more over the next days. Family stuff plus our big Woodward Dream Cruise this week. So limited shop time. Finalizing the headlight relay pack and having everything 100% connected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
Question -- the PIN P you reference. I'm assuming that's in the Ididit column Hot Rod connector? If so, based on the schematic that's the hazard 12V feed wire. Since that's on a battery circuit, vs. the turn signal which is on an ignition circuit, hard to imagine the flashers would work at all if removed. But willing to test. Just haven't figured out how to get the pins out of either connector. Tried... Not ready to just cut the wire.
You can just unpin it... But that's the same problem I had with the F9... But yes you can cut the wire or unpin it from the plug. The hazard feed is not on that wire...it is on pin K and the turn feed is on L. P on the ididit column is brake light feed..which is why I think it's over riding the lights... My coupe and the other cars I built that all used RF harness didn't exhibit this behavior... I only noticed this first on the truck and then with the F9... The new variable was the ididit column...anyway.. it easier to disconnect from the column end connector
https://youtu.be/Dj5yYCiYS68
Erik, thanks for the video. Pin came right out when the tab as depressed as shown. But to be honest I'm confused about this solution. With the cavity P brake wire removed (sorry about the confusion on my part before) I have no brake light function at any time. Based on everything I can see and follow in the schematic, this would be the only path for the brake lights to be powered. If there were separate brake lights, like the Coupe and maybe the F9 (?), they could be powered through the normal path and not use the hot rod connector. But in this application, where the light fixture is using the same elements for brakes and turn signals, don't see how it can work without the cavity P brake wire. Which leads me to my next post...Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
Over the past couple of days, have completed all the wiring for the light circuits. Only things that aren't finalized are the actual connections at each corner. There I have the fixtures on clip leads pending final installation later in the build. But all the RF wiring behind the dash is completed and using final connections. The truck manual says to clip a couple wires in the dash harness because basically the hot rod connector is just an extension of those wires. I took it one step further and removed all the dash harness wiring with the exception of two leads from the left and right turn circuits to light the indicators on the dash. The rest now have a direct path to the hot rod connector without going to the dash harness. This includes the main power feeds for the hazards and turn signals. There should no issues with backfeeding or whatever.
For the front DRL's, I clipped the front tan parking light wire away from the headlight switch and have it powered by an ignition circuit. In my case, the radio circuit since I'm not installing a radio. Simple change and works fine. Any time the ignition is on the front DRL's are on. Only downside to this approach is pulling the headlight switch to the first position (parking lights) obviously does not light the front parking lights. I'm OK with that because anything else would be much more complicated plus I rarely if ever use the parking lights by themselves with the ignition off.
In one of my previous posts, I described that the hazards worked fine (ignition on or off) but stopped flashing when the brake pedal is pushed. Upon further research, determined this is normal behavior when the light fixtures are using the same element for brakes and turn signals. There is no other option unless there are separate fixtures. Also makes logical sense I think. When moving with the hazards flashing, if you braked you would want the brake lights to show that versus keep flashing. For me this issue is closed and using this combination of parts, have to believe every other build works the same way.
Having said all of that, after extensive testing of every combination I can think of, with ignition off and on, I have one issue that's unresolved. Ignition off, everything works perfectly. Parking lights, hazards, headlights low and high beam, flash to pass, brakes, etc. All good. With the ignition on, all the same tests and everything works properly there as well with one exception. The summary is that any time the LH turn signal is used, the brake light on that side stops working. It won't work again until the RH turn signal is cycled. Happens 100% of the time. I've swapped fixtures from side-to-side. Swapped the kit provided LED flashers in the panel. Tried an incandescent fixture just in case it was related to the low draw of the LED light. Also tried a diode in each feed wire. Nothing changed the behavior or moved the problem to the other side. I'm down to thinking there's a problem with the module in the Ididit column, and am going to report it to them. Looking for any suggestions.
I did make another video that shows what I'm talking about. Just ignore the fact that at around the 2:00 minute mark I got LH and RH backwards. Just to confirm: Error condition is LH brake light function dies after turn signal on that side and can only be restored by cycling the turn signal on the RH side.
https://youtu.be/wYwXMt5WAx0
Quick update before anyone starts throwing out ideas. Sent a message to Ididit, and had a response within the hour. Gave me some basic suggestions before going any deeper. Turns out if you wiggle the turn signal lever, the brake light comes back on. Can't believe I didn't notice that before. So it's a centering or alignment issue with the switch inside the column. I'm not sure where to turn to fix. So made another very quick video and just sent back to them. But the good news is it's not a wiring issue or some type of internal logic error with the module. Hopefully a simple fix.
Geeze for a simple average builder like myself I think I’d be pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. Great job Paul
I’ll keep following your build . Rob
No, the harness hasn't changed and it's exactly like you describe. The hot rod harness is just laid on top of the regular RF harness. The challenge in this case is the light fixtures provided. They only use two wires plus ground. One for the running lights and the other for the turn signals and brakes. The truck manual even tells you not to connect the RF harness brake light wires at the rear corners. Nothing to attach them to, and that's where the "normal" RF harness sends the +12V brake signal. The Ididit column has a module, which I'm assuming is similar if not the same as the trailer taillight converter now used on the Roadster with the 2-wire square lights. Based on what I've studied and now experienced, the brake lights only work if going through the Ididit column and using the internal module if using the kit supplied rear lights. Different fixtures, with three wires (running, turn signal and brake) could use the "traditional" wiring. Maybe the light fixtures themselves are what's different now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik W. Treves
Still plugging away at wiring and will be for some time yet. First another quick update. I mentioned before ordering custom hard lines for the A/C condenser since I didn’t opt for the Factory Five heat and A/C kit and the hard lines provided with the condenser I bought didn’t play nice with the radiator and required routing. Shout out to Vintage Air for providing this service. I sent them patterns made from brake lines and they reproduced them perfectly. Their process is professional and efficient. Not cheap but no way I could have made those myself. I don’t have the radiator and condenser back in yet. But I’m positive they’ll work perfectly based on a quick check.
I’m nearly complete now with installing the highly dieted Ron Francis harness into the chassis. When finished, the only connectors remaining will two for the dash harness so the dash can be removed if needed. I’ve already eliminated the headlight and sender connectors. I’ll also be removing the front and rear harness connectors. All switched over to direct connections. It’s a matter of space, tailoring the lengths to match the installation a little better, plus adding and removing wires needed for the build content. Not for everyone, but how I’ve chosen to approach it.
In the last series of updates, discussed the issue I was having with the four corner lights and specifically an intermittent issue with the LH turn signal and brake light. After eliminating everything else, boiled down to something with the Ididit column. Then, as shown in the last little video I posted, turned out to be a problem with the GM turn signal switch. Ididit support was good to provide multiple suggestions on how to resolve. But nothing fixed it, so at their suggestion I replaced the switch. Aside from pulling the steering wheel, that vintage GM switch has a retaining ring holding the cam plate over a heavy spring which is easy enough to remove but a real bear to put back together. With the new switch in place and the wires fished through the column (not an easy task either) thought I could push things back together and install the retaining ring. Nope. There’s a special tool. But I didn’t want to wait so cobbled a homemade version and it was together in minutes. With the new switch in place, all the lighting works perfectly and the previous problems are non-existent. Ididit said they would reimburse me for the switch. $40 isn't going to break the budget, but seems the right thing to do since it never worked right out of the box.
One other quick word about the external lighting. Several have posted on their build threads, and referenced here on mine, that diodes are needed to make the circuit work properly with the kit provided lights and RF harness. Once everything was sorted out, didn’t find that to be the case. Mine is working perfectly if every scenario without anything added. Other than perhaps the parts are different than past kits (possible…) I’m wondering if the issues aren’t related to the hot rod harness. That branch is added on top of the regular RF wiring for the turn signals, hazards, brake lights and horn. So those circuits appear twice in the harness. Once at the hot rod connector and also mostly in the dash harness. In two different places in the build manual it describes cutting or isolating the unused wires to prevent any unwanted interaction. Wondering if that’s maybe what others are experiencing? I actually removed the unused wires completely. The only thing related to those circuits remaining in my dash harness are the two indicator lights. Everything else I’ve changed to only wired directly to the hot rod harness.
So finally to actual progress. We’re having our usual August Michigan heat wave. By noon, my non-A/C equipped garage shop turns into a sauna. I know, my friends in other parts of the country that have real heat waves will think I’m a wimp. But just not a pleasant place to work. So I’ve moved to the basement shop and have been wiring the dash. It’s nearly complete. First time I’ve used Autometer gauges. The RF harness was most recently upgraded to be more compatible with Speedhut gauges. So, most of that was clipped off and replaced with 1/4" quick disconnect terminals used on the Autometers. One of the challenges with this dash is it all has to come apart again for paint. So wired taking that into account. I bonded a base stud to the dash with HSRF to hold the dash harness in the proper position to match the connectors on the main harness. Plus takes up the lion share of the weight of the harness. I put the turn signal, high beam, and MIL indicators above the steering wheel as mentioned previously. Also added a clock over on the passenger side near the HVAC controller. All powered and confirmed last night all working. The Autometers are somewhat old school gauges and still use incandescent lights. So the built-in dimmer on the ACDelco headlight switch works normally. The Vintage Air controller has cool lights built into the knobs. They also dim with the headlight switch which is nice. Even appear to be a similar color temperature so everything matches. Thought they were LED’s, but can’t tell for sure. There’s plenty of room on the back of the dash, so I’m also in the process of mounting the main harness for the Vintage Air system there as well. With that, a few pictures. Doesn’t look like much but took some time to get together. The coiled wires on the left are the harness going to the wipers and washer.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1630062154
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1630062154
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1630062154
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1630062154
Speaking of the MIL (Multifunction Indicator Light, or fancy title for check engine) mentioned above that’s triggered from the LS harness. Can’t help but notice similarities and differences in some cases to the LS installation compared to my previous Coyote installations. In this case, the MIL is wired the same as the Coyote. You give +12V to the positive side of the light (I used the regular gauge circuit) and the LS PCM switches the ground. Confirmed via research that this is correct. Also was interested to see many report the light glows slightly all the time when using a low current LED. Just like the Coyote! I guess I’ll feel at home seeing that. Some play with resistors to tone it down. I tried that on my Coupe build and couldn’t find a value that suppressed it very much without affecting it when it was actually turned on. So just leave it as my “system is alive” glowing light.
Will keep wiring for now. But once it cools off a bit, will change directions and get the inside of the cab finished. Prefer to do that outside to keep the mess out of the shop. I’m going to do a little filling and sanding and spray the inside including the headliner with UPOL Raptor like I did on the Coupe. Turned out well there so will repeat. Only difference is I’m going to spray it silver instead of black. Also have a slightly upgraded gun so hoping to get a little smoother surface. We’ll see. Once the wiring is wrapped, plan to put the cab back on the for the duration. At least until paint and not sure what will happen there.
So that's 3 IDIDIT columns now. Interesting. and this is why I fully connect all 4 corners and check all the lighting during this stage. I too have not seen the need to add diodes . Glad you figured it out now - I went through this at the end of my SEMA Truck during final assembly - I was NOT happy :) Looking good Paul!
Not as much building time this week, so not as much to share. No pictures either since nothing is particularly photogenic. Still chipping away at the wiring. I feel like I’m making progress. But then still a ways to go.
Front and rear harnesses are installed as far as I’m going to take them. In both cases, removed the connectors to the main RF harness as mentioned before. So both are hardwired with splices. Saves space plus allows the length and location to be exactly customized. Only thing left is the corners where the lights are attached. Will finalize the routing there and add Weather Pack connectors after the body is installed. Only way to know exactly where to place the connections.
The power steering is completely installed and working. I routed the wires as shown in the manual. Along the lower frame rail, then around the corner and outside the chassis up behind where the door hinges are. Carefully measured and there’s plenty of room with the cab in place. Just need to be careful when taking it on and off. I put some strips of Gorilla tape over the wires in that area to prevent any damage. I removed the 40 amp inline fuse in the supplied harness. I have it powered by one of the accessory outlets in the LS fuse/relay center. There are two available. Changed the already installed 50 amp maxi fuse to a 40 amp. So duplicated what the PS system had pre-installed. But located in a fuse panel where it’s accessible. First time I’ve used or even been around electric power steering of this type. Not sure what I was expecting when I powered it up. But I didn’t expect it to be totally silent. Thought maybe you’d hear the motor or something. But it’s clearly working based on the steering wheel effort. One other comment about the power steering setup. There’s a blue wire in the harness that isn’t mentioned in the manual and I see some question. Found in another build thread it’s used for diagnostics of the control module and not attached to anything. I capped it off and tied it up with the harness.
Next I worked on finishing the LS harness. As shown in previous updates, already have the ECM mounted and connected and the relay/fuse panel mounted and connected to battery power. Both behind the dash. Also have the main harness leg attached to the front of the firewall with most engine connections completed. Next order of business was a harness leg that goes from the main harness in the engine compartment to the interior. Three ends are the ODB2 port, connector for the DBW (accelerator pedal), and connections for the MIL and ignition sense. I didn’t want to drill a big enough hole in the firewall to pass the connectors through. Plus each leg was easily two feet longer than needed. So, cut off the connectors, passed the wires through a 3/4" hole with an insulator, and re-attached the connectors via splices. Tedious work but worth it if done carefully. I think (hope). The cruise control also attaches to the ODB2 port and DBW connection. For the ODB2 port, it comes with a connector that you plug in but remove if the port is needed. Or it says in the instructions you can cut the plug off and permanently solder the wires to the designated CAN bus pinouts. That way it's not necessary to plug and unplug. I did that while reassembling the connection. For the DBW, the cruise control has a short pigtail that goes between the DBW module and the harness connection. With wires in the pigtail that go to the cruise control module. Thought about hard wiring that too. But decided against it. I’ll use the pigtail as is. Connected the MIL wire that routes to the indicator on the dash. Tested and working. Connected the LS ignition wire. I used the ignition powered choke wire. Presence of voltage (+12V) signals the LS system to power up. Also connected the LS cooling fan and fuel pump wires into the RF harness. The fuel pump breaks into the RF fuel pump relay exactly the same as with Coyote builds. Ends up with the inertia switch still functional and using the RF wires back to the pump. Tested and working. For the fan, with AC you want the RF cooling fan to still work via one of the signal wires on the trinary switch. But then the LS can also power the cooling fan based on engine temp. So I have the LS fan wire spliced onto the RF cooling fan wire going through the front harness. That way, either can power the cooling fan. My Coupe is the same based on the instructions from Factory Five. Works fine.
Still a few more connections and clean-up to complete in the engine compartment with the LS harness. But powered up, the throttle body is alive and the MIL lit. The ODB2 port is alive and shows six codes. Not paying any attention to them at this point. Just happy to see it working. Once wiring is done, get the cooling system hooked up and I can think about a first start. Not there's some motivation.
Speaking of the cruise control, also studying that wiring to get it wrapped up. The instructions say that if using LED lights, which is what the kit provides, it’s necessary to add a relay to the circuit associated with the brake light switch. Obviously pushing the brake pedal cancels the cruise mode. But apparently with LED’s the grounds through the lights aren’t adequate so it’s necessary to add a relay to break the ground. The relay diagram in the instructions is very confusing IMO. I checked Dakota Digital’s website, and they have a diagram there too but it’s slightly different and also confusing. I sent a message to their tech support but so far haven’t heard back after several days. I understand what they’re trying to do and will wire it accordingly whether I hear back or not. If you understand relays (not hard…) it’s fairly straightforward. But wouldn't mind their confirmation.
The HGM transmission controller is the single largest open item still for wiring. Will be diving into that next. It all seems easy enough except how vehicle speed inputs are handled. A little confusing so far but will get it sorted out. Somewhere in that have to also get a signal to the Autometer speedo.
On a non-wiring front, I said before my Moser rear end wasn’t leaking like many others have experienced. Scratch that. It’s leaking. Not a lot. But it’s wet along the bottom after a while. Then drips occasionally. Grrrr. Sent a message to tech support at Moser. Had me check the torque on the bolts (already had done that) and then said it needed to be re-sealed with a new gasket and sent one. I suggested also using Permatex The Right Stuff gasket maker and they said that was a good idea. Unfortunate IMO for a seemingly high quality (and expensive) part to need this fix but I’m not alone I guess. Not looking forward to letting the smelly fluid out of it’s cage.
That’s it for now.
Re: Moser lube sealing: I built a frame to mount an Avanti body with Corvette C4 running gear. Mission creep has brought it to an LS1 and ZF six speed. The IRS differential has gone from Dana 36 to Dana 44.
That case/carrier is heavy cast aluminum, likely permanent mould 17-4. Challenging the seal is torque load and lateral suspension loads. Dual fastener function, clamping and mounting. GM uses silicone, no gasket.
Success is uncertain, I disassembled the 44 to find orange and black silicone. Questionable technique. Is the Moser gasket critical to dimension stack-up?
jim
This is a pretty standard cast iron Ford 8.8 solid axle with a stamped steel cover. I’m not too worried about stress or whatever. Intended use is a street cruiser and won’t see anything extreme. The gasket plus Right Stuff is a solution others have used and is apparently successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Jones
The challenge for gaskets or sealant is conformity to the surfaces and gap filling. There are cast/machined covers that additionally offer supplemental structure to the housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardb
jim
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1629160130
Edward, Where did the cruise control come from? I ordered the same column, but not sure if it comes with cruise control.
Thanks,
Chris
I am aware and have used those options on other builds. For this build, I'm using the parts I already have for the reasons mentioned. I'm confident it will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by J R Jones
The Ididit column does not come with cruise control or the pictured turn signal stalk with the controls. I'm using a Dakota Digital CRC-1000-3 GM LS Drive-by-Wire Cruise Control Kit. That version comes with the turn signal stalk style controller that's mounted inside the Ididit column instead of the provided turn signal stalk. The harness must be fished down through the column. Doable but fair warning a little challenging. They also have a version with a dash mounted controller (CRC-1000-2) and a version with a slip-on turn signal stalk (CR-1000-1) which I assume has the wiring on the outside. I have no experience with this one and don't know if it fits or not. Plus I wanted the wiring hidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wingardh
Over the last week, have completed all the wiring on the firewall side for the LS and related. Including the gauge connections and the HVAC wiring. Now I feel like I’m making some good progress. I’m not going to go through every detail. But a couple highlights. It was nice of Chevrolet, I guess, and I know the provided harness is universal. But many of the harness legs are too long. Especially the ones that go through the firewall into the cockpit that I mentioned previously. But also many of the engine legs. I adjusted them as needed for a better fit. Another factor is due to the relatively tight engine bay, plus how tight the FF provided LS Hooker headers are, heat is definitely a concern with many of the harness legs. Several come with foil wrapped around the convolute. But others need to be insulated. Including the wires for the O2 sensors, starter power, and solenoid wire. All are within fractions of an inch from the headers. I originally was going to use DEI Cool Tape. Which I’ve used in the past. After wrapping the main starter power wire from the firewall feedthrough to the starter, decided to use something else for the rest. Went with the smallest size (0.250 in.-0.500 in.) Thermo-Tec Thermo-Sleeve Protectors instead. Same product I used previously on the fuel line by the mufflers. Also, I read a number of instances of Hot Rod builders having trouble with heat soak on the starter. Again, due to the closeness of the headers. So wrapped it with a Thermo-Tec starter heat shield. I think I have everything adequately protected now. Finally, the other thing I did was eliminate the big block connectors between the coil pack harness and the injector harness on the top of each head. This allowed things to be tucked in a little neater. Pretty sure those are there for assembly ease at the factory. The stock setup is all four coil packs in a bracket and prewired to drop onto the top of the head as a single assembly and a single connection. I eliminated that bracket when I switched to the Holley valve covers shown previously. Here are several pictures. Still wish it looked a little neater. Oh well. Note the front harness is temporarily tie-wrapped to the frame rail. I’ll finalize and attach differently when the body is on and the front components are placed.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1631549230
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1631549230
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...9&d=1631549230
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1631549230
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1631549230
Couple connections on the other side of the firewall and the engine would be ready to start. Only remaining items are the upper and lower radiator hoses and the famous LS steam vent. Which I’m going to route to the T-filler. But I’m going to wrap up more of the wiring on the inside first. Still a few connections to go on the HVAC system and cruise control. Plus the transmission controller. Each are relatively simple and I think I have all the connections figured out. But takes time. Speaking of first starts, have studied the LS instructions that came with my engine and controller. Chevrolet can’t quite make up their mind regarding oil priming before the first start. In one place, it says to crank the engine with the starter and the controller off (obviously so it won’t start) until oil pressure shows on a gauge. In another place, it says to use an engine preluber kit and prime through the engine block left front oil gallery plug. That sounds OK except they reference a preferred tool (J45299) that’s in the $400 range. A little pricey for a one-time use to say the least. I’m looking at some videos with guys doing the same thing with various homemade devices including garden sprayers. As long as oil makes its way through the engine, evidenced in all cases by oil showing up at the lifters, seems like the simple and cheap way could work. Will be looking more. Once again, comparing the LS installation to the previous Coyotes, this is an aspect that I don't recall Ford mentions anywhere in their instructions. I suspect all engines are put together with copious amounts of assembly lube. And if you've ever been in an assembly plant (or seen videos) they start the engines at the end of the line and drive them away without doing anything special. Maybe because crate engines have the potential to sit around for a long time before starting? Who knows.
That’s it for the update. This next Sunday, Sept 19, we’ll be showing our Daytona Coupe at the Eyes On Design Automotive Design Exhibition in Grosse Pointe Shores, MI. This is an invitation only event. I received an invitation based on a drive through show they had there last year. This is an amazing high-end show and a huge honor to be invited. I don’t know about every car that will be there. But based on the press releases and some of the cars they’ve described, should be amazing. There will be judging by industry professionals and awards. Per their own description, “A panel of 60 automotive design leaders will judge more than 250 vehicles curated for their unique design relevance to the theme: 'Marques of Extinction: Significant Designs of Bygone Brands.'” I have no idea what class the Coupe will be placed in. I don’t have any expectation for awards based on what will be there. But looking forward to it as an interesting and exciting day. I’ll take lots of pictures and share. Peter Brock was apparently scheduled to be there to accept a special award. But now that’s been pushed to next year. More info here if you’re interested: http://www.eyesondesign.org/carshow.
Paul - I just used this : Allstar Performance Oil Pressure Primer Tank ALL10535 - worked really well $170...
Paul, I just pre-lubed my gen 2 coyote yesterday before first start using $20 worth of parts from my local Ace hardware, as shown in my build thread here. It worked perfectly. I removed the oil filler cap and was able to see oil dribbling out of the oil passages in the head, so I'm pretty confident that oil made its way through all the oil passages with this method.
Paul
What plans do you have for the coolant overflow / expansion tank on this build ? I'm using a similar LS engine in my coupe build. Just wondering what thoughts you have on this.
mark
I'm using the kit supplied overflow tank. It's mounted on the RH side of the firewall. Just not plumbed yet. It's the long polished round tank visible in all but the first picture from my newest update.Quote:
Originally Posted by lewma
A lot more progress on wiring and most of the major components. Everything that I can test is working. Have the HGM transmission controller completed. Seems like a high-quality setup and I’m happy with it. But like other items, the universal wiring harness took some work. Main leg from the firewall to the transmission connection was nearly two feet too long. Just nowhere to put that much excess. Plus, some of the wires (power, ground, speed sensor, reverse sensor, etc.) exited from the transmission end of the harness instead of by the controller where they’re needed. So took another harness apart and reconfigured to fit the build. Including removing a couple unneeded connections. Shortening the main cable was a bit of work (14 conductors) but worth it. The setup also came with two adapter cables for the VSS on the trans and the CAN bus to the LS harness. Removed those and hard wired to the proper connector. Had to make a new harness leg to the Lokar sport shift for the park/neutral safety switch wires and the control wires for the manual shift mode. HGM previously sent me the wires and directions, which were excellent. The main +12V power wire had an in-line 7.5 amp fuse. Removed that and I’m powering through an ignition switched power lead in the LS pigtail harness. Switched the 15 amp fuse in the LS panel to a 7.5 one. I had to order some pins and seals for the Delphi (now Aptiva) GT 150 style connector that came with the controller that goes into the LS pigtail connector. Was only pre-wired with the two pins for the CAN bus. Needed to add connections for several more including the tach wire. Hear that Ford Performance and Coyote? An actual tach wire in the crate motor harness. Powered up the HGM controller and it paired via Bluetooth. Not much configuration to do at this point since it was reading the CAN Bus. Got up to the "drive it" step in the instructions.
Mounted the fuel pump inertia switch on the side of the pedal box shelf. Confirmed access with the dash in place. I made a harness for the power windows. I’m going to have the switches somewhere on the tunnel behind the shifter. The kit provided wiring only goes as far as the dash. Thinking about making a custom console. But TBD because I haven’t decided about seats yet.
Also now have the Dakota Digital cruise control wired up. All very straightforward. Just crazy long wires again that needed to be shortened to avoid a giant rat’s nest. It too had an in-line fuse. Only 1 amp. I tapped the power off the ignition-controlled bus bar shown previously, and the fuse is reachable from under the dash. So left it in place. The only surprise was the required added relay for the brake pedal circuit because of LED brake lights. Never did hear back from Dakota Digital tech support on my question regarding their diagrams. But wired it in the only way that made sense. To me anyway. I’m confident it will work OK.
Most of the remaining work is for the Vintage Air HVAC wiring. The firewall forward part was done as of a couple updates ago. But still work remaining on the dash where I have the main power harness and the controller and the interconnects to the evaporator unit on the firewall. Will finalize when the cab is back on and I can get the actual location of the dash.
This is what it looked like before:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...0&d=1629160130
Now a little more buttoned up. Hard to make wiring look very pretty (at least for me…) but the layout worked pretty well and everything fit. Clearly not having the Wilwood pedal box installed opens up a lot of space. So not sure how applicable this is for most builds. But works well with the benefit of the power brakes on the other side of the firewall.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...4&d=1632450723
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...5&d=1632450723
A lot of wires and related removed from several harnesses.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...6&d=1632450723
One final somewhat trivial detail is what to do with the headlight low/high beam switch? The Ididit headlight relay module I used has a single wire that when grounded gives flash to pass with the headlights off and regular low/high beam switching with the headlights on. Would have liked something on the turn signal stalk but not an option with the cruise control stalk. Didn’t really want a switch on the dash. So going old school with a foot operated switch. OE style switches from back in the day were typically latching type and large made to carry the full headlight current. I only need a momentary switch with low current capacity. But still hold up to being foot operated. After some searching, found what I think is an ideal switch at McMaster. https://www.mcmaster.com/5374T33/. Nice square shape that fits perfectly along the frame rail in the footwell. Seems quite robust and even looks the part. Added a plate on the back for mounting and routed the two wires on the front harness leg installed just above it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...8&d=1632452021
Now will focus on finalizing the intake and radiator connections. Then can start planning for the first start. Also, the interior body work and UPOL Rapter spray inside the cab mentioned previously. Also thinking about tires so I can make it a roller. I do have two questions for Hot Rod and Truck builders:
1. What are you doing with the cable harnesses that go through the transmission tunnel above the transmission? There are a number (main power, rear harness, transmission controller, vent, etc.) that logically have to go between the transmission main body and the fiberglass cover. Is it a problem if they rest on top of the transmission? Or did you figure out some way to attach them to the underside of the cover so they’re not touching the transmission? If so, what have you done to accomplish that? Please don’t tell me to route them elsewhere, e.g. underneath on the chassis. Way too late for that.
2. Speaking of the cover, I go back and forth on whether I want it removable or not. Ideally, would be best to be removable, I guess. But planning full insulation and carpeting, and not necessarily ideal to have that stuff removable. At least how I like to do it. There is the center top fill piece that could be made removable. Don’t know if that would really help and the same issue(s) with making it look decent. One option would be making the custom console I’m thinking about go all the way to under the dash. That could be a solution for question 1 too. But again, still TBD. Wondering what others have done.
Last Sunday was the big EyesOn Design car show I mentioned previously. According to one of the helpers, one of the top five shows in the country. I reported about it in some detail on Facebook. Just a quick word here. Was a perfect day with not a cloud in the sky and temps in the 70’s. By far the highest end and most organized show I’ve ever attended. About 225 cars in the central meadow on the grounds of the Edsel Ford House in Grosse Pointe Shores, Michigan. The quality of the cars shown was amazing. Judging was by industry design professionals. But turns out less than half of the classes are judged, and mine wasn’t one of them. Which was fine. Each year has a specific theme and they judge classes that are part of that theme. There was traffic around the Coupe all day and had a good time talking with lots of folks. Have no idea if I'll be invited again. But next year's special guess is supposed to be Peter Brock.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...7&d=1632450764
Thanks for following my build. Appreciate the comments and thanks in advance for suggestions on these latest questions.