Open Design Discussion and What's NEXT!

[Olimk2]

Here's my last evolution project i submitted...

1499
1500
1501

[05xtsy]

Read my other post, I agree that being critical is required. You had a harsh and critical prof in school, that's fine. But after being harsh and critical with regards to your submissions did he finish up his critique by saying, "But it figures you and the rest of the students submit what amounts to crappy pencil sketches for designs because you're all children. I'm not working with REAL designers here."

Not his exact words... It was more along the the lines of... "you guys better get better at sketching cause if you don't, you aren't going to have and advantage over the competition." He also said that most of us were not up to par, which was true.

[Vman7]

You should modify more in order to have your own design, still a shortened 918 now . ffr"818" doesn't mean that!!!LOL
There is already someone with a twicked 918, he had the same comments...

Like I said there is a lot of work still to be done, and yes I know FFR 818 doesn't mean a smaller version of a 918.....lol.

I could always modify the hell out of this design I did from scratch.........not!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=990&d=1299996402

[Vman7]

This is why I didn't post any pics before, ppl get the wrong idea and really don't read the posts.

I think from this point on I might just be better off just finishing what I have in mind and submit it and let FFR decide if they think it's worth anything.

[Olimk2]

Not a daily driver but could be nice redimensionning that...

[GUNS]

This is why I didn't post any pics before, ppl get the wrong idea and really don't read the posts.

I think from this point on I might just be better off just finishing what I have in mind and submit it and let FFR decide if they think it's worth anything.

Try not to get too defensive. I think it's safe to assume that most people did not read any previous posts and therefore your current designs look like exact copies of the 918. It might be better to start sharing your design when it's a bit more complete. BTW, I love the Avenger design and would build that in a heartbeat!

[Vman7]

Try not to get too defensive. I think it's safe to assume that most people did not read any previous posts and therefore your current designs look like exact copies of the 918. It might be better to start sharing your design when it's a bit more complete. BTW, I love the Avenger design and would build that in a heartbeat!

That's why I wish I didn't post anything yet. Thanks on the Avenger comment, Not real sure on the name though, it was just a inwork name. It's a project I work on and off. It was 1st designed for the racing sim SCGT, but then went more into a real race car idea. I was thinking it could be a base for a rebody option for the GTM.

[Senger]

V-man7,
Senger, I think your 3D modeling is very clean but you have way too much offset at the main body section, just to get that big shelf on the bottom. As a result the door section is narrow and way too vertical. If you have 8” of offset there you could make the design work with 2” and it would look much better. I see a lot of people here overstating these offsets so you are not alone.
Also I would agree with others who have complained about too much mass in the front. If you could slim it up and level the belt line, the car would sit better.
The backlite you show is so high and level that it is adding a lot of weight (visual and actual) and would do nothing other than catch the heat from the sun.
I would also suggest studying door cuts, especially at the hinge pillar. If they aren’t pretty much vertical, the door will swing up too much and tend to smash down on people. Plus your door cut is too far rearward relative to the seat to swing one's legs out.
I do like your sense of form and your design is very original.

Thanks for the thoughtful critique, Olpro. The shelf does lend inefficiency to packaging and difficulty with ingress/egress, and serves no real purpose. After thinking about it more, it probably even creates an aero vortex because it is basically a crater. I will also adjust the door cut to open properly. These are things that should have been studying as this was being built, but I was having too much fun building it to stop and think.

Bradley- thanks. It does have some Bentley in it. Keen eye. Perhaps though, as others have stated, having the heftiness of a Continental may not be the most appropriate. I'm working on giving the next iteration a more lithe-looking build.

This is a bit premature considering the design issues at hand, but I went ahead and did a Gulf Grapnel last night, just for fun:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5228/5641719294_2502e809a9_z.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5641719372_523defb8ff_z.jpg

Thanks for your feedback. Olpro- wicked Firebird and GTO renderings! They don't do 'em like that anymore. I had the priveledge of visiting the Tech Center a few times during the H2, Volt, and Camaro programs over the last decade while I was working for a supplier. The magic of that place never fades.

[jimgood]

No offense to anyone that's submitted designs, but doesn't anyone have the ability to render a nice design with realistic wheels and tires instead of unobtanium wheels and tires with a .75 inch profile?

We're expecting to use a WRX donor. Let's see these things look good with the stock 16" x 6.5" wheels. How's that for a challenge?! :D

[Olimk2]

Just look mine above...

[Cr8tr]

Done it. Will be submitting on the last week of May
No offense to anyone that's submitted designs, but doesn't anyone have the ability to render a nice design with realistic wheels and tires instead of unobtanium wheels and tires with a .75 inch profile?

We're expecting to use a WRX donor. Let's see these things look good with the stock 16" x 6.5" wheels. How's that for a challenge?! :D

[readymix]

No offense to anyone that's submitted designs, but doesn't anyone have the ability to render a nice design with realistic wheels and tires instead of unobtanium wheels and tires with a .75 inch profile?

We're expecting to use a WRX donor. Let's see these things look good with the stock 16" x 6.5" wheels. How's that for a challenge?! :D

No kidding. I have nice wheels, and I'm banking on this thing using any wheel that would normally fit a WRX. Show me one using stock WRX wheels, or...if you wish to completely humor a complete internet stranger, you can put a set of silver Work VS-XX wheels in 18x8 on your concept drawing. Because if my Work wheels can't go on the Factory Five, they are getting polished up and hung on the wall in my living room. I refuse to part with them.

[05xtsy]

Just another quick sketch, continuing with my modular design, but an iso view.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/roadsterisotop1.jpg

[crackedcornish]

Just another quick sketch, continuing with my modular design, but an iso view.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/roadsterisotop1.jpg

I'm liking this one....any more detailed drawing of it?

[05xtsy]

Just a sketch I did last night, It is just an iso view of the changes im going to make to this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/Picture26.png

P.s. I really want to put op High res images of my stuff anyone know how to do that? I have photobucket, but I think it limits it.

[stratos]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/THKxvuypSGI/AAAAAAADN5s/JqyZaZkjsLs/s1600/New-Lancia-Stratos-204.jpg

Sign me up right now for something like the new/old Stratos

Needs real world ground clearance & room for "real sized humans"

Pat

i registered on this forum just so i could 'second' the stratos idea. real-world ground clearance, fantastic styling, and the cockpit of those cars is actually spacious once you climb in.

[crackedcornish]

Just a sketch I did last night, It is just an iso view of the changes im going to make to this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/Picture26.png

P.s. I really want to put op High res images of my stuff anyone know how to do that? I have photobucket, but I think it limits it.


if you don't have a Pro account I think your limited to the size you can upload
http://pic.pbsrc.com/help/PhotobucketHelp_Left.htm#CSHID=Upload%2FSetUploadO ptions.htm|StartTopic=Content%2FUpload%2FSetUpload Options.htm|SkinName=WebHelp

[16g-95gsx]

I love the stratos body too. It seems like most of the designs are unnecessarily large in the front for a mid-engine car.

[Mechazawa]

I love Senger's design (although I agree that the cab section would probably have to wider) because the kammback looks pretty aerodynamic to me, I especially like the early sketches with the huge duct for the intercooler and no rear window, it looks very efficient to me. Those of us who want to see out the back can just suck it up and install a camera.

BTW, why does this thing have to have doors, why not just have the whole rear part of the body (engine cover and all) pivot up (separating at the windshield frame/would be front door cut) from the back of the car to allow ingress/egress.

Just a thought.

[PhyrraM]

Because big 'clamshell' types of panels do not lend themselves well to the one piece, seamless molds that the stated goal of "no bodywork, by utilizing gelcoated panels" would seem to require.

[Mechazawa]

I have done a bit of fiberglass work, and I don't think the need to avoid visible parting lines rules out the "big clamshell." Surprisingly large parts can be made in one piece molds, although it limits the shapes that can be used, that said I could understand if Factory Five, or their fiberglass contractor did not want to take on the risk of constructing such a large and expensive tool only to find that they can't consistently demold the part. I could see the clamshell being made of four separate pieces that would then be bonded/riveted together either at the factory or by the builder (this might be hard for many builders) It would leave visible seams, but they would have a finished look. A bigger problem is that the clamshell would likely be too flexible and tend to crack the all important gelcoat when open (could be solved with more exotic materials or steel reinforcement, but of course that would add cost and weight).

The designer would have to decide if the simplification of fewer hinges and latches is worth all the trouble.

[olpro]

Big hinged shells like you are proposing make more sense for panels that are seldom opened, not trunks or not certainly entry/egress to the car. Otherwise the structural integrity required for an often used function means a duplication of structure and the associated added weight and complexity.

[Mechazawa]

I don't disagree with you at all olpro, I was hinting at that at the end of my post, there is probably a reason big clamshell's like that show up on race cars and not on road cars. You would also run into some difficulty with separating the cabin area from the engine bay area. There might be some overall weight reduction available, depending on the details of the frame design, and the design would have some advantages in terms of ease of ingress/egress, plus a certain cool factor from opening the "door" and having the whole engine, transmission and rear suspension visible just like that.

It's just an idea I wanted to throw out there--for all we know it could turn out to be a simple step over car.

A word on intercooler ducting.

I don't think you can fully appreciate how big a deal this is unless you have owned a turbocharged mid or rear engine car. It's very hard to get sufficient air flow for an air to air IC to work well, and no one really wants the weight, cost, and additional failure modes associated with an air to water system. It would be a big bonus if the car had a well thought out intercooler duct.

[Thanas_4]

Here are some more accurate drawings from Konstantinos, soon I will try to post my version too. Generally we are in the part where we finalize our 2 entries

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2483/skitso42.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6061/skitso45.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5526/skitso46.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

[sonicrex]

Very nice IMO.

[Wilky]

Here are some more accurate drawings from Konstantinos, soon I will try to post my version too. Generally we are in the part where we finalize our 2 entries

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2483/skitso42.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6061/skitso45.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5526/skitso46.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26


I really like this...coupe like, would have a removal top?

[Thanas_4]

thanks guys, the car will be targa which means that it will have a removable hard top. Maybe we will find a way to store it somewhere in the back or in the front so you will be able to have it with you all of the time. here is a sketch of our other proposal:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/117/kt2o.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/kt2o.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Wilky]

thanks guys, the car will be targa which means that it will have a removable hard top. Maybe we will find a way to store it somewhere in the back or in the front so you will be able to have it with you all of the time. here is a sketch of our other proposal:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/117/kt2o.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/kt2o.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


How about T-Tops. They would need less space to store

[Franze]

here is my latest, what do you guys think
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5657295253_68dd4867d0_b.jpg

[crackedcornish]

here is my latest, what do you guys think
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5657295253_68dd4867d0_b.jpg

sine you asked, IMO and this is just my opinion, the front opening for the radiator is way to large and the front end is to high in general...there's nothing up front that requires the body to be that high in the nose, bring the opening down to about a third of the size it is now, and the entire body down so there is only an inch or two of fender above the tires so it doesn't look so heavy...by doing that you'll make it lighter, lower, and sleeker visually

[Franze]

sine you asked, IMO and this is just my opinion, the front opening for the radiator is way to large and the front end is to high in general...there's nothing up front that requires the body to be that high in the nose, bring the opening down to about a third of the size it is now, and the entire body down so there is only an inch or two of fender above the tires so it doesn't look so heavy...by doing that you'll make it lighter, lower, and sleeker visually

Thanks for the comments, I guess I want it the opening to be overtly large as this differentiates it from any other front grille and signifies it's thirst for fresh air! I like the bulkiness as it gives it an imposing look, that is quite muscular

[Franze]

sine you asked, IMO and this is just my opinion, the front opening for the radiator is way to large and the front end is to high in general...there's nothing up front that requires the body to be that high in the nose, bring the opening down to about a third of the size it is now, and the entire body down so there is only an inch or two of fender above the tires so it doesn't look so heavy...by doing that you'll make it lighter, lower, and sleeker visually


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5657295253_68dd4867d0_b.jpg

Thanks for the comments, I guess I want it the opening to be overtly large as this differentiates it from any other front grille and signifies it's thirst for fresh air! I like the bulkiness as it gives it an imposing look, that is quite muscular

[readymix]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5657295253_68dd4867d0_b.jpg

Thanks for the comments, I guess I want it the opening to be overtly large as this differentiates it from any other front grille and signifies it's thirst for fresh air! I like the bulkiness as it gives it an imposing look, that is quite muscular

Yes, emphasis on "signifies" for that fresh air thirst, since there will really be nothing up front that will, in reality, actually thirst for air.

[Franze]

well there is a radiator..

[phenotyp]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver61ecopy. jpg


and it go a little somethin like this.

[Cr8tr]

hmm...interesting.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver61ecopy. jpg


and it go a little somethin like this.

[crackedcornish]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver61ecopy. jpg


and it go a little somethin like this.

yes, that's what I'm talking about....low and sleek...very cool

[PhyrraM]

yes, that's what I'm talking about....low and sleek...very cool

It's got more radiator air intake than the Franze's.

I like Franze's design, looks like it could be a real car with some work. The basic proportions look good, and the styling feature of the grill does get your attention, eve if it is a bit derivative of an Audi or Mitsubishi.

Phenotyp's looks more like a Hot Wheels styling exercise to me. Unless the wheels are impossibly large, it looks impossibly low. I do think it has some good details that might survive a translation to "full height". The way the lower chin is integrated into the grill area is nice, as is the continious line that defines the side scoops, the upper air intake, and the roll-over "bulges".

[Mechazawa]

The new illustrations from Konstantinos and Thanas look quite nice (add a roof and suddenly I am a fan, go figure :) , maybe using a Miata as a daily for the last five years has screwed with my mind). I like Franze's drawing as well, except (like others) for the grill opening. it may be the pronounced lip more than the size that looks off to me, although oversize grills are bad for aerodynamics, so I would rather not see them as a general thing.

[Franze]

thanks for the comments guys, noted. I cant wait to refine this design further!

[Steve91T]

Here are some more accurate drawings from Konstantinos, soon I will try to post my version too. Generally we are in the part where we finalize our 2 entries

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2483/skitso42.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6061/skitso45.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5526/skitso46.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

It looks great, for a front engine car.
It doesn't look like a mid engine set up will work for this car.

Honestly, it really does look sharp.

Steve

[crackedcornish]

It's got more radiator air intake than the Franze's.

I like Franze's design, looks like it could be a real car with some work. The basic proportions look good, and the styling feature of the grill does get your attention, eve if it is a bit derivative of an Audi or Mitsubishi.

Phenotyp's looks more like a Hot Wheels styling exercise to me. Unless the wheels are impossibly large, it looks impossibly low. I do think it has some good details that might survive a translation to "full height". The way the lower chin is integrated into the grill area is nice, as is the continious line that defines the side scoops, the upper air intake, and the roll-over "bulges".

I would like Franze's design a lot more if it just didn't have the visual mass to the body...that's what I liked about the car that phenotyp posted.

I'm not saying either is producible, that's up to FF to decide, we're just supposed to be submitting styling ideas...and I like the basic idea of it being low and lean with a severe slope to the front end, with some large air intakes in front of the rear tires

[Thanas_4]

so here are some more final ones for our 2 proposals, thanks for the comments again, you are always very helpfull

Thanos' version:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4292/90612106.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-27

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/977/36909540.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-27

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2475/47543182.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-27

and Konstantinos' version:

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5526/skitso46.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/6061/skitso45.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-26

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2413/skitso44.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-04-27

[PhyrraM]

I would like Franze's design a lot more if it just didn't have the visual mass to the body...that's what I liked about the car that phenotyp posted.

I'm not saying either is producible, that's up to FF to decide, we're just supposed to be submitting styling ideas...and I like the basic idea of it being low and lean with a severe slope to the front end, with some large air intakes in front of the rear tires

That's true, and I like seeing all designs too. I guess it's just the mechanical side of me, but I can't seem to fully get behind anything that's too out there. I'm naturally drawn to something I can see becoming reality.

While, in theory, a low sloped nose is what this car needs, the one shown is just too exagerated for me to be able to grasp on to.

[olpro]

I never saw FF tell people to IGNORE the functional and package issue, just don't let them inhibit the ideas.
Frankly, some logical criteria is liberating for many. It helps narrow the options to ones that make sense and are worth pursuing.

[crackedcornish]

That's true, and I like seeing all designs too. I guess it's just the mechanical side of me, but I can't seem to fully get behind anything that's too out there. I'm naturally drawn to something I can see becoming reality.

While, in theory, a low sloped nose is what this car needs, the one shown is just too exagerated for me to be able to grasp on to.

In a way I'm with you on the mechanical side...I guess that's why I like the lighter looking cars...no excess body work, just the minimum amount needed to cover the mechanicals

olpro, where do you see a function/package issue with a lighter looking body with a smaller grille opening on a mid engined car?

[olpro]

Crackedcornish, I don't see an issue with that idea that at all.

[crackedcornish]

Crackedcornish, I don't see an issue with that idea that at all.

OK, since you have way more experience in the auto design field than I would ever hope to have, I thought maybe you saw something that I was missing

[Franze]

I guess in my opinion a car of the scale of an 818 can look silly if it is too small and sleek,
I am quite a large person, and it just doesn't suit me to sit in a miata, elise etc,, I end up looking silly,
and the vehicles tend to look too feminine for me

[riptide motorsport]

I agree with Franze

[crackedcornish]

so you guys think this light and low car looks silly and feminine?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/b51448e6.jpg

if that is the case, then I guess I'm all for silly/feminine looking cars....because I think this car looks killer :o

[BrandonDrums]

so you guys think this light and low car looks silly and feminine?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/b51448e6.jpg

if that is the case, then I guess I'm all for silly/feminine looking cars....because I think this car looks killer :o

Looks awesome, offer a windshield and top package and sign me up.

[crackedcornish]

Looks awesome, offer a windshield and top package and sign me up.

unfortunately, I think someone said that's a Lotus concept drawing....but I still really like it :o

[readymix]

so you guys think this light and low car looks silly and feminine?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/b51448e6.jpg

if that is the case, then I guess I'm all for silly/feminine looking cars....because I think this car looks killer :o

No way man, it definitely needs a bunch of big scoops, a bulging hood, and huge air holes up front. That's where the muscle is. :rolleyes:

[sceraxn]

Hows it going everyone? This is my first post on this forum and i was hoping to get some feedback on some of my body line sketches. Im not a trained artist(unless you call 7th grade art 15yrs ago to be training lol), so ive been starting with simple line sketches of the side profile before i move on to the more complicated angles. There are some really talented people in here so i was hoping i could get some input on things i should change or even if i should just scrap the ideas all together. I know these arent as stylish and out there as most of the concepts in here, but ive always been the type to find beauty in function so everything ive drawn is there for a reason.

This is my first attempt. I really like the shape and smooth classical lines, but it just doesnt look like a mid engined car. It actually fits the template better than the MR designs ive done.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn33/sceraxn/F5conceptsketch.jpg

This is the MR design that im liking the most right now(ignore the side vents, that was just me thinking out loud lol). Again, this is a very simple design that should be easy to put into production, and it fits the templates nicely. I just need to figure out a way to jazz it up a bit since it feels bland at the moment. Suggestions?
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn33/sceraxn/f5concept2001.jpg

btw-Is anyone else having a hard time designing around their templates? The long transmission is giving me some trouble, but the worst part it the drivers position. If it was moved forward 6" it would make a world of difference in both ease of design and weight distribution. And is everyone sticking to the templates or are you just drawing what you think looks good? Ive seen a few that didnt look like theyd fit the chassis at all which has made me a bit confused about the set limits of the design. Thanks in advance.

[phenotyp]

... and now for something completely different.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver62dcopy. jpg

[crackedcornish]

... and now for something completely different.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver62dcopy. jpg

did you change (shorten) the nose?....this car is looking good

[phenotyp]

the difference between a lincoln continental and an f458. this one's tall and old-school, with maybe some nice new details.

not what i would build, but more a reaction to the crowd.

either way, if it isn't fun, don't bother.

[16g-95gsx]

Cover the front bumper up and I almost imagine a targa version of a GT40. Not at all a bad thing, just something that comes to mind.

[crackedcornish]

I like the straighter lines in the rear scoops over the curved ones of the earlier pic for sure...not sure of the nose from that angle though, and what's going on at the bottom of the doors?

[phenotyp]

i think, if there WILL be doors on this thing, that, if they can bring the fiberglass to a really tight, precise radius, that the bottom of the door should break right below the highlight line.

(that is, if this thing has doors... i'm kinda designing it like there's a serious factory backing it)

[phenotyp]

this one's all about the flat top plane, and long front-to-back lines. it's a weird sorta amalgamation of elise and like 62 continental... but it would be AWESOME if someone built something like that.

[Gary in NJ]

... and now for something completely different.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver62dcopy. jpg

Like :thumb

[phenotyp]

the template is not as good as it should be.

which is why i'm drawing around it, and not an idealized version of it.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver54bcopy. jpg

this was the first correct profile, which i had to take the roof off of.

[RMB]

... and now for something completely different.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/phenotyp/FFRdesigncontest_profile_12th_scale_driver62dcopy. jpg

Some of these designs just keep getting better and better. I'm enjoying following this thread. :)

Rob

[Senger]

Phenotyp- I love the low, lean proportions! Not sure why, but I'm getting a slight steampunk vibe from your sketching style (in a good way). The shortened nose gives the rear that extra visual 'push'. Really seems to suit the chassis well.

My friend (also a designer) helped bring my Grapnel to life in Bunkspeed. He really got it to pop. His renders make mine look very flat in comparison. In the meantime, I'm working on a lighter, more nimble design which is more weight-appropriate.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5669630449_872d9a80e1_z.jpg

[rlfletch]

Another hat in the ring:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1da09b3127ccefcace0b5ed3d00000030O00Abt2jJi4cOW YPbz4c/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1da09b3127ccefcad9ff68d9500000030O00Abt2jJi4cOW YPbz4c/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[vengaspeed]

Marc, the FF Grapnel looks awesome in that color, this rendering looks more sharp more alive, in fact this color has many fans, remember Mihai's Boston Bullet concept! I am waiting to see other views of it

Phenotyp, what a rendering !!!!wow!

[phenotyp]

Haha, thanks, Marc. I'm thinking that what's making you think steampunk is probably the exaggerated complementary colors, or maybe the dark-metallic-on-wet-road look... After I finish the initial sketch, I've been going way overboard with the painting (obviously). Just having fun with it, and work out surfaces as I go, without trying to be too tight about it.

That Bunkspeed render really gets a lot of bounce out of your surfaces, and that's a cool hint of interior-- it's crazy how quickly and easily you can get great results out of that program. The pewter color gives the car a lot of refinement.

Looking forward to seeing your next concept!

[phenotyp]

Phenotyp, what a rendering !!!!wow!

Thanks!

[Mechazawa]

I'm continually amazed by the amount of talent we are getting in this thread. Phenotyp's new renderings look awesome, and I too see a bit of steampunk, and yes it's the coloration. I like the version w/the roof best of course, my complaint is that the driving position is clearly too low to accommodate the driver sitting on top of the fuel tank. Sceraxn's sketches look nice and clean and slipery, and I like that they attempt to accommodate the driving position as it likely must be. Senger's grapnel looks better than ever, and rlfletch's work looks realistic and very pretty, I see a bit of Mk I MR2 (not a bad thing), a bit of X1-9 and a little Stratos too, very nice really, and easy to imagine it with a targa top. I would like to see some kind of air intake for that stock TMIC though.

[rlfletch]

I would like to see some kind of air intake for that stock TMIC though.

Ask and ye shall receive:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1da09b3127ccefcac60bbed7300000030O00Abt2jJi4cOW YPbz4c/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[sceraxn]

Thanks for the kind words Mecha. I was beginning to think that everyone hated my designs lol

I was definitely going for clean lines on this one. I love the wild concepts posted in here, but i was trying to design something that fit their chassis without modification as well as being easy to produce. Ive been extremely busy the past few days, but as soon as i get the chance i start on drawings from other angles and post them up.

And again, any recommendations would be highly appreciated.

[mekeys]

I want to see a slide show of all the designs,so we can pick (or vote) 0n the one we would all like to see them build.The finale choice would have to be FF5 of course.

[riptide motorsport]

Mekeys has a great idea there.

[readymix]

I don't know about a slide show, but I can host all the images of the designs and setup a poll.

[crackedcornish]

I don't know about a slide show, but I can host all the images of the designs and setup a poll.

that would be helpful...but there are a awful lot of designs running around here aren't there?

[PhyrraM]

A slide show can be arranged quite easily.

Most of the photo-hosting site have a slide show feature. I use Flickr, but Photobucket and Picassa have the feature also. Just have to upload all the pics into in the same album and post the slide show link for that album.

If nobody has done it yet, I'll see what I can do after my kids scout meetings.

[crackedcornish]

my slideshow images don't seem to work from photobucket

[readymix]

Yeah, digging through the entire thread is a pain for sure.

[16g-95gsx]

I would like to see that too. I've had a lot of folks ask about this car and it'd be nice to be able to show them some of the submissions.

[vengaspeed]

the first one of the designs i am going to send :p

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4151/4sideetoimo2q.jpg
http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/5403/4sideetoimo2wd.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8353/4sideetoimo231.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8997/4skiaseislampseis4444tt.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8997/4skiaseislampseis4444tt.jpg

[vengaspeed]

and the last design for the side view
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6196/4sideac.jpg

[Cr8tr]

As promised here's a teaser for the first week of May. Enjoy! Just thought this will put more excitement to the contest. :cool:

[Franze]

Is there any word on the judges for this contest?

[D2W]

Is there any word on the judges for this contest?

Besides an occasional weekly winner there hasn't been any word from Dave Smith or Tom Heath over at Grassroots about anything.

[Olimk2]

grm hasn't even edited the winner gallery last week...

[Thanas_4]

Here is the updated almost final side view of our first proposal:

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/227/plagiaopsiproteliki.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-03

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7325/skitso46a.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-03

We saw your comments about the fact that the car has a long bonnet for a mid engined vehicle but that's mostly because of the requirements. If you look at the templates you will see that the structure is too long at the front. However I will try to reduce that feeling in our second proposal. We will present more sketches soon ;)

[Franze]

Nice design,

I have noticed the same problem with the front bonnet being far too long as per the f5 templates

[vengaspeed]

As promised here's a teaser for the first week of May. Enjoy! Just thought this will put more excitement to the contest. :cool:

looks pretty cool...u used 3ds max for this?
I see nice chrome details

[Mechazawa]

Ask and ye shall receive:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1da09b3127ccefcac60bbed7300000030O00Abt2jJi4cOW YPbz4c/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

That is awesome--might need to be a little bigger (Exige owners always complain about insufficient IC air flow). Of course it would work best if built into a targa top (put the intake in the high pressure area in front of the windshield, or as a nacca duct on the roof, but I bet you already have something like that in mind. I dig the lotus style color scheme too.

For some reason this design is the one I can best visualize as an actual car.

[Hiryu]

Things have gotten quiet here. : (


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AW6gxCNOKw

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3FrontLarge.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3FrontSideLarge.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3RearHighLarge.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3RearRightLarge.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3SideTransparent.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Final/X3TopLarge.jpg


Mike

[speedboy]

Hi all, here is my final entry for project 818. It's been a great challenge and journey and I've certainly learned a lot and have been inspired by the posts on here and the grassroots forum. This is a modular concept designed to meet the requirements and budget of different customers. It includes an optional aluminum roof with a manually sliding targa top and side curtains.

Roadster shown with optional roof and stand
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/963628c1.png

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/0fd2a614.png

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/54b592e1.png

Hardtop installed with open and closed targa and side curtains
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/1608ad42.png

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/6bf653e5.png

[speedboy]

Challenge car
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/2a189b7f.png
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/1a5df3fb.png
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/99b60779.png
Tarmac rally special
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/4cdebf55.png
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/d4228325.png
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k533/birdhouse1/FFR-04/dabe2d78.png

[Cr8tr]

looks pretty cool...u used 3ds max for this?
I see nice chrome details

Thanks! A little bit of chrome accent here and there. I used Showcase.

[Wildrova]

Mike,
Thats pretty cool. Its nice to see some diffferent design ideas. It remindsd me a little of the KTM Xbow on steroids.

Is there any chance of seeing a rendering with a smaller / no rear wing??

Regards,
Paul

[bromikl]

...We saw your comments about the fact that the car has a long bonnet for a mid engined vehicle but that's mostly because of the requirements. If you look at the templates you will see that the structure is too long at the front. However I will try to reduce that feeling in our second proposal. We will present more sketches soon ;)


I'd take the driver position as negotiable. One of the previous threads (maybe on GRM) stated the outline of the driver in the template as seated on the donor's gas tank. The donor tank might not even make it into the final production. If it were my car to design, I'd move the driver down and forward.

[Oppenheimer]

Speedboy, I'm really diggin' how this came out. A few minor things I'd like to see tweaked (grill opening, the way the side scoop is so, geometrical, the half circle on front fender that flows into two parallel lines, too linear or something), but I _really_ like the overall look. I really like your creativity with the sliding targa roof.

This one is in my top 3.

[bauhaus]

Speedboy, these are your best yet. I am liking the coupe/targa look. I think this is a necessary option for most of us and would get permanently installed on my car.

I think out of all the designs I have seen so far, yours has the best proportions and stance which is the trickiest thing to get right. I think the rear of the car looks great and the front fenders have a really nice radius. But surfacing in just a few certain areas still looks a little too blocky and heavy; especially around the side inlet and the door window/windscreen treatment - these should be a little for fluid and rounded. Also, although the grill is a big improvement over previous efforts, it is still a little strange and gapping. But I love the use of the large yellow fog lights - awesome.

Keep going!

[Vman7]

Speedboy, That is awesome!!! well done. The only thing I am not so sure about is the front end, airducts could be a little smaller. Other then that, I would build that design in a heartbeat!

[blueafro]

Speedboy,

Yours is the first proposal I've seen with a practical solution to the meet the needs of both the open- and closed-top camps without kicking the budget in the teeth. Looks good too, in a utilitarian manner that I think will suit this car very well.

[16g-95gsx]

I like the design I just gotta say that I'm not digging the front end. The side openings are far to disproportional to the center radiator opening. Additionally the lights in the main opening are obtrusive and kill radiator flow with no other benefit.

[Mechazawa]

Very nice Speedboy, here is my critique. The grill is simply too large, makes for lousy aerodynamics, and that much opening is just overkill. Ditch the fog lights and use a single smaller opening. The slide back sunroof thing is all manner of cool, but let me suggest that there is going to be a lot of aerodynamic force trying to rip that thing off when it is open. Probably best to do without. The side vents are probably draggy, but large enough to ingest enough air to maybe cool the intercooler fairly well with the proper internal ducting, so I will take them as a necessary evil.

I love that you combined the hardtop and windshield like on the hot rod kit, that might be just how FFR would want to do it. The car looks very nice, I would be proud to drive it.

P.S. I don't know why every design seems to have a center exhaust, or dual exhausts, a single side exit makes the most sense with this powertrain.

[speedboy]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I took a risk on the front end. Was going for formula car meets can-am racer meets group b rally car. The fog lights can easily be removed or changed for smaller projector style lights and grill openings can be modified to meet actual intake needs. Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make any changes as I'm going out of town for work and won't have access to a computer or any spare time. Hopefully the merits of the basic concept will hold up well in judging. I don't envy the judges as there are a few really cool designs posted and probably several we haven't seen yet. Either way, the 818 is gonna be an awesome machine.

[Hiryu]

Mike,
Thats pretty cool. Its nice to see some diffferent design ideas. It remindsd me a little of the KTM Xbow on steroids.

Is there any chance of seeing a rendering with a smaller / no rear wing??

Regards,
Paul

Thanks-

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessFront.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessTop.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessRearSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessFrontSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X3Wingless/X3WinglessTop.jpg

Mike

[Wilky]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I took a risk on the front end. Was going for formula car meets can-am racer meets group b rally car. The fog lights can easily be removed or changed for smaller projector style lights and grill openings can be modified to meet actual intake needs. Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make any changes as I'm going out of town for work and won't have access to a computer or any spare time. Hopefully the merits of the basic concept will hold up well in judging. I don't envy the judges as there are a few really cool designs posted and probably several we haven't seen yet. Either way, the 818 is gonna be an awesome machine.

I really like how you had multiple designs of the same car....that would be a huge option for FFR and the customer. Great job and good luck!

[bbjones121]

Week 9 winner... wow! That looks like an exotic! That is awesome. If FFR could actually do that body work, this would be amazing.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

[05xtsy]

Wanted to toss these up here, the second one was just a quick line change on my mod1 design Very Porsche inspired. The first is a little too forward, but sort of what a single color variant could look like, I may redo it. Let me say again, these are not done, just other quick ideations.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/finalFFRRender1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/05xtsy/Picture4.png

[GUNS]

05xtsy,

I think so far your designs are my favorite. hey obviously need some refinement, which I think you are aware of, but I really love the idea of being able to remove panels for a more open air experience. Keep it up!

[keys2heaven]

week 9 winner... Wow! That looks like an exotic! That is awesome. If ffr could actually do that body work, this would be amazing.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

d a n g!

[ganis]

05xtsy,
the Silver one!.... really nice.

[Twinspool]

Love the LMP1-esque front and the dive planes.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

[mekeys]

Go to www.designerspace.com to see 34,085 designs from 2689 designers from all over the world..

[mekeys]

Go to www.designerspace.com to see 34,085 designs from 2689 designers from all over the world..I was just on this url so I know it's there just does'nt seem to work from here.

[Colvindesign]

probably the ..com that is screwing it up.

[thebeerbaron]

Go to www.designerspace.com to see 34,085 designs from 2689 designers from all over the world..

Fixed the URL for you. As Colvindesign said, you threw in an extra "."

www.designerspace.com

[ganis]

hi all,
it's nice to see many design here, and great atmosphere too:)
this is my submission for 818 design contest,
a bit retro style :
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3763/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3763/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3763/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3763/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/218/ffrdesigncontestpresent.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[mekeys]

I was just on this url so I know it's there just does'nt seem to work from here.

I see why it doesn't work,there should only be one dot after designerspace..www.designerspace.com

[mekeys]

I see why it doesn't work,there should only be one dot after designerspace..www.designerspace.com
Thanks to all who for fixed my blog.

[xabier]

I think there are other similar web pages to that, like coroflot, but designerspace is just for car design, that´s what we all are looking for true? haha :)
I wanted to say, that if you are curious, you can have a look at my portfolio at designerspace, comments and suggestions are always welcome! ;) ( http://www.designerspace.com/pages/3-designerspace/design/m/1/p/1/a/15858/portfolios.html )

[bauhaus]

Week 9 winner... wow! That looks like an exotic! That is awesome. If FFR could actually do that body work, this would be amazing.
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/cmahoney.jpg

I would like to not say something negative, but I can't help but mention I not a fan of this weeks winner.

The detailing is too busy, the car looks like it has a big nose and is bug eyed, and there are no a pillars which is pretty dangerous.

On the positive side, the undulation in the body looks nice and it somewhat brings to mind the nice proportions of the GTM, but I am afraid these don't outweigh the other serious issues I mentioned above.

[Senger]

This is the last of three concepts for FF. The pop-up headlights are cable-operated, but the active rear spoiler is automatic. I incorporated 23 inches of rear overhang beyond the rear axle, but aimed to limit the perception of overhang with the use of generous plan view curvature in the body profile. There are liberties taken in the roll bar shape, but the rest of the frame remains as is. Both the bonnet and hood are large, 1-piece molds to optimize build complexity and fit. More engine compartment venting and an intercooler intake will be added to the bonnet this week, along with the a-pillar structure. The visual inspirations are also below. Any critique is welcome and appreciated as always.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2451/5706839902_1e60072bd2_z.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3476/5706839726_78103c9318_z.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/5706273687_d6ea34aaae_z.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/5706839544_7e73f33d5b_z.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/5707078816_7378eb26b9_z.jpg

[Gary in NJ]

Very interesting Senger. I like the minimalist approach - it's like a KTM X-BOW. There are aspects of the design that remind me of a '70's dune-buggy, but overall I like the concept.

[olpro]

That is a very intellectual approach to the project. It kind of reminds me of the Ford Ka and the first Audi TT, not in the design so much as the thought process.
I can see a bunch of these in a class racing setting. The pit crews would scoot around on Segways..

[Senger]

That is a very intellectual approach to the project. It kind of reminds me of the Ford Ka and the first Audi TT, not in the design so much as the thought process.
I can see a bunch of these in a class racing setting. The pit crews would scoot around on Segways..

Thank you olpro. And thanks Gary. SCCA events were in mind while designing this. But it seems that I can't escape the dune buggy syndrome as much as I try, haha. However if you observe the original Elan, it posessed considerable crown below the beltline, which is part of what made it look as feathery lightweight as it was. The undesirable alternative would be to load this down with rocker panels, splitters, and other ground effects to escape the "dune bugginess", but then it would lose the purity I was aiming for.

On another note, the large clamshell panels might seem straightforward, but may present the most problems when lifting them (prohibitive weight may require added complexity & cost of struts). For this price point, I can't imagine these being composed of carbon fiber. Also, replacement cost and cost to mold them are a concern, depending on volume. But if Factory Five sees no issue with this, then perhaps it is feasible after all. Could someone from FF chime in on this? Thanks!

[D2W]

Senger, I like your simplistic approach. I see where the dune buggy comments come from but that goes with the style of design. I don't like how high the rear humps are, but I assume that's from trying to fit the template. If the driver position could be lowered along with the humps and possibly windshield the whole car would come off more as a cone carver and less dune chaser.

[Thanas_4]

Hello people! It's been a long but I came back with my almost final design. Here are the revised sketches (it is a targa roadster, I mean that it has only a small removable hard top):

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4690/almosttelikoside2.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-10

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1131/almosttelikofront2.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-10

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7778/almosttelikoback1.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-10

Senger I like very much the first two of your entries. I believe that the last one lacks of the dynamic design of the previous two. Arif, I can see an improvement in your design, I believe that you could do a bit better with the rear but that is just personal taste. I like week 9 winner overally, though some of the details could make a huge difference in the design making it a lot better. That's all I have to say right now, probably Konstantinos (the other team member) will have his final proposal ready soon.

[Olimk2]

Senger nice one make it green and call it froggy!! 928 style head lamps? Why not, but could go fixed as well like the austin, stay basic!. Light design for a light car...Had some rear view mirrors, wiper,and a rear license plate location, maybe some kind of vent up rear and this will make a very smart proposal!

[Oppenheimer]

Senger, I get what you are shooting for (simple, light) but this makes me think what it would look like if Ikea sold cars.

I think that design could work, but perhaps not for this project. I think the 818 needs to have more broad appeal, and a look that suggests the performance that lies underneath.

You obvioulsy have a lot of design talent, clever ideas, and out-of-the-box thinking, but this design just isn't pushing my buttons.

[Senger]

@Oppenheimer: thanks for your frankness. You have a good point, as there is an appliance-like feel to it which I'm working to shed, and some of the details will be tuned for more masculine appeal. But I hold firm in my overall approach to a vehicle full of character in the classic sense, which is why I appreciate that it evokes a frog-like image. Olimk2: integrated units would be much simpler and will be considered. Thanks. And details like wipers and mirrors are in progress. Thanas_4: you really refined the heck out of your design and it shows. Well-spaced graphics and mature surface volumes. However, I feel the front fenders are too pronounced and lack a similar relationship to the comparably flat rear fender flares. Matching the gesture between the two and increasing the height of the rear haunches may help give it more "wedge". Thanks for your feedback guys. Here are some quick updates showing the current placeholder for the fuel filler, a-pillar structure, re-proportioned headlights, and new wheels:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/5709239790_abd4eb8ee1_z.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2488/5708674489_67d75cdb74_z.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/5709240200_2bce34725b_z.jpg

[mekeys]

I would like to see someone photoshop a 2011 Corvette make the W.B. 95 inch's section it a little amd move the cockpit forward for the mid-engine look.I think it would be a winner(it would be for me)..

Mel Keys

[Bill_H]

Hi Folks,

I've been sitting on this design for a while now, and I haven't come up with any better ideas, so here it goes...

I tried to come up with something that could be put into production with few, if any changes. It follows the original FFR template very closely, uses the template-sized wheels, and uses off-the-rack headlights and taillights.

In general, I wanted to incorporate some F1 design elements, which can be seen in the front splitter, lower side skirts, and the rollbar/rear fender hump combination. The headlight cutouts are supposed to resemble the tailplanes on an F-15 fighter.

I tried rendering it in Blender, but my computer gave up after just modeling the hood.:(

17091710


Here's a few more sketches
https://picasaweb.google.com/107437371899131860336/SketchesFinal?feat=directlink

[Oppenheimer]

Hi Folks,

I've been sitting on this design for a while now, and I haven't come up with any better ideas, so here it goes...

I tried to come up with something that could be put into production with few, if any changes. It follows the original FFR template very closely, uses the template-sized wheels, and uses off-the-rack headlights and taillights.

In general, I wanted to incorporate some F1 design elements, which can be seen in the front splitter, lower side skirts, and the rollbar/rear fender hump combination. The headlight cutouts are supposed to resemble the tailplanes on an F-15 fighter.

I tried rendering it in Blender, but my computer gave up after just modeling the hood.:(

17091710


Here's a few more sketches
https://picasaweb.google.com/107437371899131860336/SketchesFinal?feat=directlink

looks like a well done cross between P-car 918 and K1-Attack. I think there is a lot to like. Obviously there are refinements to be made when its translated from sketch to software. Difficult (for me) to offer any productive criticism while still in sketch form.

[Oppenheimer]

I am noticing though that so many of the designs are so similar in concept. That tells me that is what most expect, and assume, the 818 should look like. That would apparently be the 'safe' route for FFR to take, to make sure the look doesn't detract from the rest of the car (they don't want reviews that say 'awesome car, if you can just get over the looks'). I'm fine with 'safe', so long as it doesn't look like it wants be a Ferrari, but looks more like a Fugazi.

It would be interesting to see more 'different' designs, like what Senger is trying to do (the latest white one looks better, but its still not pushing my buttons), if for no other reason than to have 'something else' to consider. But its still gonna have to have a look that suggests the performance it will be capable of to generate the sort of lust that will drive sales.

[Thanas_4]

Here are some semi final accurate drawings for the side of the other submition.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2967/telikiplagiaopsigrammik.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8143/telikiplagiaopsixroma.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8246/telikiplagiaopsixromab1.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11


and this is just a sketch I made for new ideas. Maybe we will find time to work on some more submitions too

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/6956/prospatheiaenalaktikimp.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

[VTX]

Here are some semi final accurate drawings for the side of the other submition.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2967/telikiplagiaopsigrammik.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8143/telikiplagiaopsixroma.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8246/telikiplagiaopsixromab1.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11


and this is just a sketch I made for new ideas. Maybe we will find time to work on some more submitions too

http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/6956/prospatheiaenalaktikimp.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-11

I love those side views. I'd really like to see some other angles of that design.

[Franze]

HERE IS A NEWER CONCEPT OF MINE
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2737/5711796771_51495be5cc_b.jpg

[Cr8tr]

This was one of the ideation sketches that led to my final design model. Enjoy!:cool:

[Hiryu]

I would like to see someone photshop a 2011 Corvette make the W.B. 95 inch's section it a little amd move the cockpit forward for the mid-engine look.I think it would be a winner(it would be for me)..

The closest I have is a concept rendering I made for a C7 Corvette design contest...This is the mid-engined version. It's probably a bit too big, low, long, and wide to enter in this contest:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoFront.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoRear.jpg

Mike

[Martin]

Has any body seen what Sergio is working on? I'm sure he started designing for this competition but he seems to have disappeared.

I thought he'd be all over it. Unless he is posting else where. links?

Martin

[mekeys]

The closest I have is a concept rendering I made for a C7 Corvette design contest...This is the mid-engined version. It's probably a bit too big, low, long, and wide to enter in this contest:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoFront.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/Corvette/ME/RevoRear.jpg

Mike Looks as good as I thought it would.

[willy]

Been going though the designs and It seems that some have lost there way, some of the designs are to complex to be done on the budget Dave gave and to complex for pratical production ie winner week 9. The ones I like and looks like it can be done are week 4 & 7 they have targo tops so good for roll cage and possibliy inexpensive hard top for, they are modern designs that are original but yet simple eought to meet the budget set of 10000 kit cost

[mekeys]

http://s1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/mekeys/?action=view&current=img323_1.jpg

Here is a quick 5 minute sketch. I haven't done this for quite a while. Although I have done a lot of small profile sketches, that I call thumbnail sketches. I then copy them with my printer, and fool around enlarging them just for the fun of it.


I can't figure out how to get to insert the picture in the thread......"WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO DO ?"
Mel Keys

[CooperD]

Just copy the IMG code (from the box in the right) of your image page above and pastE it into your forum post, like this:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/mekeys/img323_1.jpg

[mekeys]

Thanks for putting my sketch of FF818 in thr thread.Thats what we thought we did,but it did''nt work for us ??? I give up.

[Olimk2]

1770Here's my new submission...Enjoy! (or not!!!)

[readymix]

I know it's just a concept. But if there is one thing I absolutely hate on cars with every essence of my being, it's wheel coverings. It makes changing tires a pain. It covers up really nice wheels. And it has no place on a sports car.

I do like some of the other lines on the drawing though.

[Olimk2]

177317721771

I respect your taste, but first, will be cleared when rear goes up, and well look at this about the sport car issue...

[readymix]

Ok, maybe on a race car for aerodynamics. I'll give you that. But for a car on the street, I don't want to have to unhinge panels if I blow a tire, I also don't want to be constrained to a certain wheel width, especially in the rear. If your panel fits an 8" wide wheel and tire combination, what happens if I want to run a 10.5" wheel in the rear? You either have to cut that part off and do the body work to make it look right, or you have to design the rear body area with extra space for a wider wheel, which would look awful with a narrower wheel and tire combination. Race cars typically run what they were designed around. There isn't alot of mix and match going on there.

[David Hodgkins]

Personally, I dig skirts. Or a partially covered wheel well like an early 60's Falcon Sprint.

http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/9996347/mufp_0806_15_z+1963_ford_falcon_sprint+.jpg

:)

[Olimk2]

1774

Modern lotus 23 by lusso motors (available with subaru flat4...)

[FFR818]

Almost finished with my design and wanted to get some feedback. Thanks!
http://imageshack.us/f/864/42475001p.jpg/

[Thanas_4]

Here are the final front designs for both of our submitions

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9493/telikiopsi34empros.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-13

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6229/teamktfront1.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-13

[StatGSR]

Is it just me or does seem like most designs are neglecting the the fact that the WRX/STI uses a top mount inter cooler? Seems kinda important to me to keep the build price down and avoid using a custom sized and side mounted inter cooler and i would hate so see a scoop like that look like an afterthought especially with some of these designs that have been posted that i really like.

sorry for being "that guy" that thinks the design needs to "make sense" instead of just look pretty... i guess that's one of the downfalls of being an engineer

[Gary in NJ]

i guess that's one of the downfalls of being an engineer

Cirrus?

[StatGSR]

Cirrus?

Sadly no. Would be much more exciting than the pipelines i work on though, but they were to busy letting engineers go at Cirrus instead of hiring when i was job hunting.

[wjfawb0]

I'm with you on function over form for the most part. The only thing I don't like about the Lotus 7 type cars is the drag coefficient.

[FFR818]

Image Link didn't work in my last post. Lets try this again.

Here is my design. Almost finished just looking for some feedback.
http://my.imageshack.us/v_images.php
1817

[readymix]

FFR818. Try lowering the sides a little bit. It seems like a speed boat. The way they are now makes the sides look visually heavy.

[Sherrell]

I'm a proud builder/owner/driver of a Mk-III Roadster, and recently acquired a 1994 Nissan 300ZX T-top that is a fantastic car as well. The more I drive it, the more I love it. One of the many things I love about the Z is that wonderful Japanese-engineered T-top that DOESN'T LEAK (even after all these years). The thing is a marvel of simplicity and engineering.

So... how about a T-top on this new World Wonder Roadster... ???

Sherrell

[Gollum]

Ha, if you think t-tops from '94 that don't leak is impressive, I've owned 4 Z cars with t-tops from '80-'83 year ranges and not a single one ever leaked! I currently have a non-t-top (slick top some call it) and it's only leak is from the windshield due to shoddy repair work!

[sports.racer]

How about the new Lancia Stratos (http://www.clutchd.com/2010/08/new-details-images-the-lancia-stratos.html/) - http://www.clutchd.com/wp-content/gallery/17_june_2010-new-lancia-stratos/clutchd-com-new-lancia-stratos-1.jpg

[Senger]

Here is one of my proposals, showing some changes made based on some of your helpful input. The rear intercooler intake, side & rear view mirrors, wiper, liscense plate bezel, hardtop option, and interior were added. A higher res (and more readable) version of this may be found here --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsenger/5724524415/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5215/5724524415_c85091accf_b.jpg

This was loads of fun. Thanks again, and all the best to the participants!

[olpro]

Brilliant!

[FFR818]

Another view of my current concept.1841

[Hiryu]

Here is one of my proposals, showing some changes made based on some of your helpful input. The rear intercooler intake, side & rear view mirrors, wiper, liscense plate bezel, hardtop option, and interior were added. A higher res (and more readable) version of this may be found here --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsenger/5724524415/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5215/5724524415_c85091accf_b.jpg

This was loads of fun. Thanks again, and all the best to the participants!

Nice presentation! But do you have a viewpoint from a driver's eyes? It looks like he/she would be looking straight into the windshield frame...

[bromikl]

Here is one of my proposals, showing some changes made based on some of your helpful input. The rear intercooler intake, side & rear view mirrors, wiper, liscense plate bezel, hardtop option, and interior were added. A higher res (and more readable) version of this may be found here --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsenger/5724524415/sizes/o/in/photostream/


At first glance, I thought it was too cute. Like a modified VW New Beetle. Since my first look, it's kinda growing on me.

It certainly IS unique. I love that it is so low. TONS of visibility in this car. With this design, door lines might be there for aesthetic reasons, but they don't have to be functional.

Good thinking on the pop-up headlights to reduce drag. They might have to be moved toward the wheels - I don't know if there is a requirement on the distance between them.

I like the chin splitter and I see the front radiator intake, but where will the hot air go? On the cut-away view, I see a lot of space under hood. Would it be possible to move the splitter back for added clearance? And FYI, the stated clearance for the competition is 4.5 inches.

Hiryu makes a good point about the top of the windshield being directly in the driver's line of sight. I want to add the side mirrors, as well. They might even be more aerodynamic (I sensed this is a high priority for you) at the base of the windshield.

Excellent presentation. This is the most completely fleshed out proposal I've seen yet.

[ScottyB]

just got my renderings finished and sent in, 4 total. had a great time putting it together, thanks for the inspiration from everyone else who worked so hard on theirs.

here's a front 3/4...not too much has changed from the sketch i did long ago.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Iso-View.jpg

[crackedcornish]

as to Senger's design:

I think the visibility to the right rear could be better...I see myself glancing over my right shoulder before a lane change and seeing nothing but a passenger side headrest fairing.

don't really care for the barrel shaped fender bulges, headrest fairings, or the headlights

I also am not seeing many WRX bits in this design

and as mentioned the air from the radiator opening needs to exit from either the top or sides of the car...perhaps use a duct in the hood similar to the rear intake (reversed of course so it gives the air a way out over the hood)

OK, now for the stuff I like about this one..

the idea of having a single colored lower bit of bodywork with some of the more complicated stuff such as ducts/scoops and keeping the different colored upper bits a lot simpler

the unobtrusive rear air intake getting some air for the intercooler

the concept of keeping it low and light :o

[Cooluser23]

Why? There are plenty of cars that have radiators in front with no exit scoops/vents. The air just travels under the car.

I know. I drive a mid engined car with the radiator in the front (at an angle to keep the hood low) and the motor in the middle. The car has decklid vents, but no scoops aside from a small 2"x2" air vent on the drivers side. (Pontiac Fiero)

[readymix]

ScottyB's submission over at GRM is beautiful.

[Oppenheimer]

At first glance, I thought it was too cute. Like a modified VW New Beetle. Since my first look, it's kinda growing on me.

It certainly IS unique. I love that it is so low.

Same thoughts, too cute, too much Beetle, but starting to grow on me as well. But it still needs more aggression to it (especially the nose). I'm thinking maybe its _too_ low. Perhaps if the whole beltline were moved up, yes, I know, its supposed to look low and light, but it still could be, just not as much. This would minimize the huge headrest humps and minimize the barrel fender bumps.

Then do something, not sure what, but something to make the nose more aggressive.

[crackedcornish]

Why? There are plenty of cars that have radiators in front with no exit scoops/vents. The air just travels under the car.

I know. I drive a mid engined car with the radiator in the front (at an angle to keep the hood low) and the motor in the middle. The car has decklid vents, but no scoops aside from a small 2"x2" air vent on the drivers side. (Pontiac Fiero)

why...because it looks good for one, and it will help with the aero for another thing

[crackedcornish]

ScottyB's submission over at GRM is beautiful.

it needs a rear window!!....I drive in NJ traffic, and that design would be absolute hell to do a safe lane change in.

[readymix]

it needs a rear window!!....I drive in NJ traffic, and that design would be absolute hell to do a safe lane change in.

I'm sure the design could be altered to allow a rear window of sorts. Personally, I am fine without it. I'd probably just install some sort of backup camera.

[ScottyB]

it needs a rear window!!....I drive in NJ traffic, and that design would be absolute hell to do a safe lane change in.

i went back and forth on what to do about that in the design. i settled on 3 main reasons for leaving it out:

- glass weight
- glass expense
- as a performance vehicle, what's behind the car may not be as important if a good set of parabolic mirrors are on the side. this will not be many people's daily drivers.

if the FF engineers really have an issue, i imagine it wouldn't be tough to install a small window on each side of the scoop. lotus exige owners manage OK without a rear window as well.

[crackedcornish]

I'm sure the design could be altered to allow a rear window of sorts. Personally, I am fine without it. I'd probably just install some sort of backup camera.

what year WRX comes with a backup camera? :rolleyes:

seriously though, I like to give a quick glance over my shoulder...and it would be a hard habit to break at this point in life.

also the lack of a rear window may make a small cockpit seem a bit claustrophobic, especially if it also has a roof as in the drawings.

[readymix]

i went back and forth on what to do about that in the design. i settled on 3 main reasons for leaving it out:

- glass weight
- glass expense
- as a performance vehicle, what's behind the car may not be as important if a good set of parabolic mirrors are on the side. this will not be many people's daily drivers.

if the FF engineers really have an issue, i imagine it wouldn't be tough to install a small window on each side of the scoop. lotus exige owners manage OK without a rear window as well.

That too, the engine cowl seems to cut back as it goes aft, which would lead to pretty good views with decent side mirrors.

[GUNS]

what year WRX comes with a backup camera? :rolleyes:

seriously though, I like to give a quick glance over my shoulder...and it would be a hard habit to break at this point in life.

also the lack of a rear window may make a small cockpit seem a bit claustrophobic, especially if it also has a roof as in the drawings.

It's not that big of a deal in a car this small as long as the side mirrors are good. The exige doesn't have a rear window and it works fine. With that said, I also agree that ScottyB's design is awesome. This is exactly what I am looking for in this car. The only thing I don't like is the high mounted side mirrors. It reminds me too much of the Ultima GTR and it makes it look like it has ears.

[Niburu]

what year WRX comes with a backup camera? :rolleyes:
it's available on the current Foresters
plenty of aftermarket ones easily available that'll hook up to alot of the newer stereos

[Senger]

as to Senger's design:

I also am not seeing many WRX bits in this design

and as mentioned the air from the radiator opening needs to exit from either the top or sides of the car...perhaps use a duct in the hood similar to the rear intake (reversed of course so it gives the air a way out over the hood)


Thanks for your feedback and the kind words. Maybe you are referring to engine heat (?) If so, there are perforations located between the exhaust outlet to help relieve buildup. The rest of the heat escapes below the engine compartment, as in most cars. And it would have been sensical to use WRX exterior parts, but since they would dictate so much of the design, I went with off-the-shelf projectors and leds. They allow far more design flexibility, and when combined with a simple lens and parabola design, may end up around the cost of used WRX units (in theory).

The somewhat more "friendly" appearance of this is partly a reaction to the plethora of angry cars currently in existence. The design is meant to reflect the tossable, fun-to-drive aspect, and appeal to both men and women (even though men may likely be the majority customer base). Plus, when you pair this friendly design with a very unfriendly motor, it becomes a true sleeper. That was the spirit I was aiming for.

Thanks for your comments guys.

[readymix]

He's talking about the radiator in the front needing ventilation. There doesn't appear to be any way for air to get in or out. Well, I think I can see where it goes "In" up front, but where it exits the car is another story.

[Senger]

There is an opening of 6" x 36" for the radiator shown in the illustrations. It doesn't matter where the spent air goes after that. There is no requirement for an exposed, dedicated outlet.

[readymix]

There is an opening of 6" x 36" for the radiator shown in the illustrations. It doesn't matter where the spent air goes after that. There is no requirement for an exposed, dedicated outlet.

I think the concern is aerodynamics. I'm not an engineer, so take this with a grain of salt I guess, but if the air goes in and the only way to go is down and out the bottom, that would create aerodynamic lift. Whereas a vent coming out the top of the hood would force the car down.

[Horhay]

why can't the hot air exit at the base of the windshield? That seems to me to be the logical solution.

[olpro]

I don't believe that is true. With a reasonable ground clearance (4.5" is called for in the template) and a proper front air dam, there is plenty of room for the air to exhaust underneath.
The air outlet on the top (middle of hood) does not produce down force. (Potentially, the air trying to get out from underneath could produce some lift).
6"x36" seems like way too much air intake area.
Horhay, the area at the base of the windshield (at least in the center) is generally a high pressure area.

[Horhay]

Here are the final front designs for both of our submitions

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9493/telikiopsi34empros.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-13

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6229/teamktfront1.jpg

By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-13

I quite like the top design, the lower design reminds me too much of the Ford GT90. The blue car though, looks like it could be a Lotus Elise competitor and wouldn't look too exotic or wild in the flesh.

[riptide motorsport]

I'd build it.

[Senger]

I don't believe that is true. With a reasonable ground clearance (4.5" is called for in the template) and a proper front air dam, there is plenty of room for the air to exhaust underneath.
The air outlet on the top (middle of hood) does not produce down force. (Potentially, the air trying to get out from underneath could produce some lift).
6"x36" seems like way too much air intake area.
Horhay, the area at the base of the windshield (at least in the center) is generally a high pressure area.

I concede that perhaps there should be an escape route out the top as Readymix had mentioned, despite 4.5" of usable ground clearance. Olpro- it wasn't clearly shown, but the 6" x 36" opening funnels and accelerates the air through a tunnel (which, come to think of it, may necessitate a hood exhaust vent even more due to the speed of the air). If that is still too much of an opening, it may be blocked on either side accordingly. Thanks for lending your wisdom.

[mekeys]

When is the slide show going to be ready ?.Don't forget the ones on GRM.


Mel Keys

[bbjones121]

Here are the final front designs for both of our submitions

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9493/telikiopsi34empros.jpg
By team_kt (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/team_kt) at 2011-05-13


Love it!

[bbjones121]

Here is one of my proposals, showing some changes made based on some of your helpful input. The rear intercooler intake, side & rear view mirrors, wiper, liscense plate bezel, hardtop option, and interior were added. A higher res (and more readable) version of this may be found here --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcsenger/5724524415/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5215/5724524415_c85091accf_b.jpg

This was loads of fun. Thanks again, and all the best to the participants!

This is a very nice presentation and probably took a lot of work. Even if this design grows on people, the first impression is what counts to everyone you are driving past or showing your car to. Just a quick observation, the majority of VW beetles on the road, not all, but the majority of them are driven by females. This may not be true everywhere, but it is around here. So with that in mind, the fact that this design reminds several people of a VW bug would probably deter me from ever purchasing one.

On that note, I bet some non-bugeye, non-popup headlights could probably change that first impression a lot.

[Mike Downs]

I really haven't read anywhere near all of this thread, but have people considered getting good air flow through the inter-cooler. Most of the designs don't seem to address this. I assume that most people would not want to move the intercooler, but maybe you can just add a pusher fan on top of the intercooler.

Again, I'm sorry if this has already been discussed. I'm a GTM builder/owner.

[unclebigbad]

"On that note, I bet some non-bugeye, non-popup headlights could probably change that first impression a lot"

He's right on all points, otherwise it is very slick.

[ScoobySnack818]

Did a quick google search for "lightweight cars" and found this from 2009...

http://www.automotto.com/entry/lusomotors-lm23-lightweight-sports-car-prototype/

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/01/28/luso-motors-lm23_7bElb_5965.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/01/28/luso-motors-lm23_EM24d_5965.jpg

The article states it was (or is) to be 881 lbs. Assuming that's not an typo error in terms of british vs. SI units, we're talking 399 kg, or half as much as the 818. heck, motorcycles can weigh more than that. Which is probably why they reference using a Honda CBR motor in it. Now granted, this is a very minimalist approach to a similar design scheme. The point is if this car can look "decent" in this lightweight of a trim, for $23K, then I don't see why FFR can't do an exceptional job giving their customers a more value-added package with the options they are asking for. I'm not saying I want a go-cart with a flimsy skin on it such as this prototype looks to be, nor am I saying I want a lotus with leather appointed trim for $9900. This example just speaks to the possibility of "having it all" for a broad range of customers in the $15k-$20K total build cost.

[ScoobySnack818]

The more I look at this thing (the luso motors LM23, portugal) I think of a two-seater Formula SAE car (FSAE, or Formula Student). You mech engineers out there will know what i'm talking about.

http://images.caradisiac.com/images/9/4/3/5/29435/S0-LusoMotors-LM23-barquette-de-Lu-sitanie-122414.jpg
It's a stretched version of this:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3623/3369249069_85db4f3d01.jpg

Not exactly street legal. I wouldn't want to be hit by an SUV in it, to say the least.

[Senger]

Here is a "de-bugeyed" version, with the addition of a hood outlet, front brake ducts, and widebody flares (optional for CR-spec trim). CR= Club Racing. The functional reason for pop-up lights was to reach the regulation headlight height without having to raise the nose. This new change lowers the light position below reg. requirements for the sake of styling, unfortunately. At least this is another option, and the nose can always be raised later to accomodate a reg-height beam. Thanks.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/5734071477_35c02bceb4_z.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2439/5734621536_dac4da4d9f_z.jpg

[VTX]

Well, that's better than the other one. I honestly didn't like the "bug eyed" version at all. You certainly know how to design well though, so I'm not trying to be negative, just wanted to give my honest opinion.

I still think the overall design is a little "cute" though and would like to see some tweaks to make it more aggressive looking.

[readymix]

I just can't get over the fact that it looks like someone stepped on a cartoon frog. The design makes sense, and everything seems to be in order and well thought out, but the overall look reminds me of a dead frog.

[riptide motorsport]

A bit futuristic for my tastes..........Steven

[D2W]

Senger, did you design for the driver sitting on top of the tank per the template, or is the driver seated lower?

[ehansen007]

Hey Dave,

These are some incredible designs. I even tried to pen few but alas, no time and I'm not as talented as these guys. After seeing Matt's design this week it really blew me away. I would consider selling my hot rod for that and I haven't even finished yet. Here's why: (and I say this with all due respect to the other designers) this is a real design, not a prototype. I can see this car moving into production with few modifications. Even the doors look simple and they are the most challenging aspect of a kit car. It also looks like something that's ready to hug the ground and not take to the air. I love how he's even got a little camber in the front end. He's thought of everything (sans roof) and it's simple. The wheels are also real and the car still looks great. I'm all for the concept drawings but the moon buggy wheels get to me and when you see the production version it's sometimes a let down since the wheels become the focal point. The body screams baby Mach 5 and does it with style and no unnecessary vents, etc. I wish I had a say in this but maybe the people can sway the lobbyists a little here. :)

Matt, if you're reading this, well done. If this design doesn't win and make it to production, let me know, I have some friends at 5axis. ;)

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/nextcar/images/mattkorich.jpg

[blueafro]

Here is a "de-bugeyed" version, with the addition of a hood outlet, front brake ducts, and widebody flares (optional for CR-spec trim). CR= Club Racing. The functional reason for pop-up lights was to reach the regulation headlight height without having to raise the nose. This new change lowers the light position below reg. requirements for the sake of styling, unfortunately.

While I recognize this is a style competition, I'd hope that the final design as implemented by FFR would not include an illegal headlight position. Why not move the headlights outward and higher up the wheels?

Also, it appears that, regardless of headlights, the driver would be looking straight through the windshield header when looking dead ahead. Am I missing something?

Finally, is that an existing windshield? If so, what is the donor? (I'm genuinely, and very, curious.) If not, do you have an estimate of what a custom, highly curved windshield would add to the cost of the kit?

[Senger]

While I recognize this is a style competition, I'd hope that the final design as implemented by FFR would not include an illegal headlight position. Why not move the headlights outward and higher up the wheels?

Also, it appears that, regardless of headlights, the driver would be looking straight through the windshield header when looking dead ahead. Am I missing something?

Finally, is that an existing windshield? If so, what is the donor? (I'm genuinely, and very, curious.) If not, do you have an estimate of what a custom, highly curved windshield would add to the cost of the kit?

You're not missing anything. As with any concept, there are human factors adjustments to be made prior to production, and I am working on tweaking the windshield and driver position. The illegal headlight position was a casual effort to humor requests from those who disliked the pop-up units. I've tried placing them outward and higher up on the fender "bumps", but they ended up looking inappropriate and too tightly-packaged for the wheel wells to fit. That is why I'm sticking to the pop-up units in the final submission. They have far more character anyways.

The windshield is not sourced and is custom because it more fully integrates with the theme without aesthetic sacrifice. I understand cost is equally important, but that has not been worked out in this conceptual stage.

[Oppenheimer]

I like the non-bugeye version of the Senger a lot more than I thought such a few simple changes would accomplish. I still think a raised beltline could enhance it more (tone down the huge hump look, lose more of the cuteness factor). I like the hood vent, more masculine, and breaks up some of the large curvey surface effect that lended to Beetle look.

Question, why do the headlights have to be bugeye to pop-up? Why couldn't you take the look in the latest design, and make those pop-up to legal height?

[PhyrraM]

I'm really starting to dig Senger's too. It's unique, fun, visually lightweight. It looks like a snap to keep cheap. I'm even not minding the huge rollover humps as much as 2 days ago.

Nice work. Can we see a version without cheated wheels (AKA stockish sized) and maybe with a more sinister grey/black color scheme (that may take away the 'cute' factor for those that have an aversion to it)?

[bromikl]

Nice work. Can we see a version without cheated wheels (AKA stockish sized) and maybe with a more sinister grey/black color scheme (that may take away the 'cute' factor for those that have an aversion to it)?

I think it's the rounded front and rear making it so 'cute'. Changing that would completely alter the concept. It's a good concept - just not intended for the demographic interested in the 818.

[PhyrraM]

I think it's the rounded front and rear making it so 'cute'. Changing that would completely alter the concept. It's a good concept - just not intended for the demographic interested in the 818.

I meant to keep all the lines the same and change only the color scheme. I bet just that alone can change the cuteness factor a few notches.

And what, exactly, demographic is the non-quite-yet defined 818 going after?:confused:;)

[blueafro]

The windshield is not sourced and is custom because it more fully integrates with the theme without aesthetic sacrifice. I understand cost is equally important, but that has not been worked out in this conceptual stage.

Thanks for the reply. I am interested in custom windshields for another project, but I have a feeling I'm going to hate the price. :)

[bromikl]

PhyrraM,

Making the car in a different color won't make it less cute. The grey or silver New Beetles look hardly more rugged (what's the opposite of cute?) than the red, yellow and green ones. It's the shape of the car. Girls love 'em. My wife hadn't even driven hers before falling head over heels in love with it. Guys - 90% of NB drivers are female - guys generally wouldn't choose the NB over over another VW car in the same price range.

What we know about the "818 demographic" so far is:

1. They don't mind working on cars. In fact, they "geek" autos.

2. They want a fast car - but not necessarily a muscle car.

3. They don't have a ton of money to put into a toy. If they did, they'd probably buy an Exige or an Atom.

4. They are prepared to spend a few hundred hours in a garage with a toolbox and a radio, discovering how to get all the pieces working together.

5. They have a high frustration tolerance. And they are less afraid than most people of making mistakes - in fact they have already accepted that mistakes will be made, and they are confident they will be managed as they come.

6. They are determined and persistent.

The 818 demographic is a guy. He's got a little extra money, and works on cars as a hobby. He's probably very detail oriented. He most likely has an engineering background or some other technical field. He graduated a university or technical college. He has no kids, or the kids are out of high school.

I'm not saying a woman can't be any or all of those things. But women like that are extremely rare. I'm not saying there won't be any women building an 818, but I dare to wager they will be a tiny minority of 818 buyers. I don't have access to FFR's records, but I'm fairly certain they would confirm my hunch that the female FFR customer is a rare (and delightful) person indeed.

Before someone points out how they don't fit the stereotype, I understand that nobody truly fits any stereotype. These are just generalizations. I think if you interviewed all of us, you'd find the majority (51% or more) of us would say 'yes' to each assertion. Though it could be no one would say yes to all of them - except me.

[BrandonDrums]

just got my renderings finished and sent in, 4 total. had a great time putting it together, thanks for the inspiration from everyone else who worked so hard on theirs.

here's a front 3/4...not too much has changed from the sketch i did long ago.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Iso-View.jpg

That's awesome, looks like my new favorite design shares the same Area code as myself. Nice work dude!

[readymix]

What we know about the "818 demographic" so far is:

1. They don't mind working on cars. In fact, they "geek" autos.

2. They want a fast car - but not necessarily a muscle car.

3. They don't have a ton of money to put into a toy. If they did, they'd probably buy an Exige or an Atom.

4. They are prepared to spend a few hundred hours in a garage with a toolbox and a radio, discovering how to get all the pieces working together.

5. They have a high frustration tolerance. And they are less afraid than most people of making mistakes - in fact they have already accepted that mistakes will be made, and they are confident they will be managed as they come.

6. They are determined and persistent.

The 818 demographic is a guy. He's got a little extra money, and works on cars as a hobby. He's probably very detail oriented. He most likely has an engineering background or some other technical field. He graduated a university or technical college. He has no kids, or the kids are out of high school.



Yes to pretty much all, except one on a technicality. No college or tech school. Navy background. Everything else is pretty much spot on. Subaru cars are very DIY friendly for the most part, which is why I love mine. I think that draws in alot of the high tolerance for frustration/spend hours in the garage types that are looking at this as another Subaru based toy.

[readymix]

And yeah, I got excited about the New Beetle when I saw the pre-release design stuff because I thought "COOL, rear-engined boxer coupes!" And then I found out it was a nutless FWD dud with a flower vase in the dash. Immediately passed on it.

[Hiryu]

I submitted my original design:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg (http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg)

Here's a video of the different specs and respective hardtops swapping out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IljyDTprr-w

I know an (early?) frame for the 818 leaked out, but luckily these designs seem to work with the frame for the most part (need to replace the roll hoops with the main bar, etc.).

Mike

P.S. When you make fun of them, think of something a bit more intelligent and useful than "they look like crappy video game cars". :)

[PhyrraM]

PhyrraM,

In my opinion, Making the car in a different color won't make it less cute. The grey or silver New Beetles look hardly more rugged to me (what's the opposite of cute?) than the red, yellow and green ones. It's the shape of the car. Mostly Girls love 'em. My wife hadn't even driven hers before falling head over heels in love with it. Guys - 90% of NB drivers are female - guys generally wouldn't choose the NB over over another VW car in the same price range unless it was the turbo sport model.

What I assume to know about the "818 demographic" so far is:

.....

I've taken the liberty of translating for you. ;) :p

I understand what your saying and mostly agree, but I guess I take a small offense to it being presented as fact.

[Steve91T]

I submitted my original design:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg (http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg)

Here's a video of the different specs and respective hardtops swapping out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IljyDTprr-w



I know an (early?) frame for the 818 leaked out, but luckily these designs seem to work with the frame for the most part (need to replace the roll hoops with the main bar, etc.).

Mike

P.S. When you make fun of them, think of something a bit more intelligent and useful than "they look like crappy video game cars". :)

I'll tell you why I'm not a fan. From the middle of the car back, it screams MRS. I'm a huge fan of the MR2, but I didn't like the MRS.

And I feel the front of your design doesn't flow with the rear. Almost like Mazda front end stuck on an MRS.

[Steve91T]

just got my renderings finished and sent in, 4 total. had a great time putting it together, thanks for the inspiration from everyone else who worked so hard on theirs.

here's a front 3/4...not too much has changed from the sketch i did long ago.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Iso-View.jpg

I really like it. What other views do you have?

[bromikl]

I've taken the liberty of translating for you. ;) :p

I understand what your saying and mostly agree, but I guess I take a small offense to it being presented as fact.

PhyrraM,
I usually agree with everything you have to say. Your knowledge of cars and especially Subarus far exceeds my own. But if I have to clarify every statement I make for you, this forum is going to get very tedious. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I want to be. Everything anyone says in a forum is opinion. Sometimes opinions are supportable with experience, documentation and experimentation. But that doesn't make a different opinion wrong.

There are certain religious people I avoid because they're "right" and they know it. You can't ever disagree with them, because they never change their opinion, and (I believe) they actually enjoy arguing. They think they are doing us a favor by "sharing" their hard-earned "knowledge" with us. Lucky us. I have learned to avoid such people.

[ScottyB]

I really like it. What other views do you have?

Thanks Steve. I've tried to post images in the past here but there's usually a delay of a few days as my post waits "approval", whatever that means.

jump over to the GRM forum to see other views: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/factory-five-design-contest-thread/32412/page49/

[bromikl]

I submitted my original design:

I know an (early?) frame for the 818 leaked out, but luckily these designs seem to work with the frame for the most part (need to replace the roll hoops with the main bar, etc.).

Mike

P.S. When you make fun of them, think of something a bit more intelligent and useful than "they look like crappy video game cars". :)

Nicely done, Hiryu. I saw two or three versions I'd be glad to own.

[GUNS]

I really like it. What other views do you have?

Steve, here are his other views taken from Grassroots Motor sports forum. ScottyB, I hope you don't mind me posting these here. BTW, this is my favorite designs as of now:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Iso-View.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Rear-Iso-View.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Top-View.jpg

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o193/bradfosk06/Factory%20Five/Factory-Five-818-Side-View.jpg

[Hiryu]

I'll tell you why I'm not a fan. From the middle of the car back, it screams MRS. I'm a huge fan of the MR2, but I didn't like the MRS.

And I feel the front of your design doesn't flow with the rear. Almost like Mazda front end stuck on an MRS.

Thanks for the input--to which version are you referring? The blue one that seems to show up as the default for the youtube video? Or all of them?


http://murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1SpecFFrontSide.jpg
http://murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1SpecSFrontSide2.jpg
http://murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1SpecAFrontSide.jpg

[PhyrraM]

PhyrraM,
....... But if I have to clarify every statement I make for you, this forum is going to get very tedious. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I want to be. Everything anyone says in a forum is opinion......

Fair enough. I did get momentarily 'caught up'.

Looking forward to open house when we can start fresh and more focused 'conversations'.

[Senger]

ScottyB's submission has a nice degree of realism, and the renderings are pretty killer. The profile is decent, but the swooping lines lack a cohesive structure and simplicity which such a small vehicle demands. In the end, it appears a bit crowded with ideas. I would also question the legality of the headlight height, but such things can be amended with a few small tweaks. It is a unique design and fitting for the character of the 818. Well done and rendered, ScottyB.

Check out NXXN's submission on Grassroot's boards too. It is one of my favorite directions so far.

Here is my 2nd submission, which hasn't received the diet I was planning to treat it with due to time constraints. But I have submitted it nonetheless. High-resolution version here---> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2265/5740246938_8e11e68729_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2265/5740246938_ca6aba851a_z.jpg

[thebeerbaron]

Check out NXXN's submission on Grassroot's boards too. It is one of my favorite directions so far.

I don't think NXXN has answered the question of what wheelbase she/he used for the design. Unless the wheels are massively out of proportion, I don't think the dimensions match the 818 template. As such, it's interesting, but IMHO, unrealistic.

[olpro]

Hiryu, while I respect your effort and thought process for your amazing presentation, you really need to learn to EDIT. There are a couple of reasonable designs in there but they are obscured by the ... less than beautiful ones. Many people, including judges, will focus on the bad ideas and that is how they will remember your work.
Your should pick ONE and not show the others, except possibly as a played-down side issue showing the flexibility of your concept.

[Hiryu]

Nicely done, Hiryu. I saw two or three versions I'd be glad to own.

That's all I ever hoped for--thanks! :)


Hiryu, while I respect your effort and thought process for your amazing presentation, you really need to learn to EDIT. There are a couple of reasonable designs in there but they are obscured by the ... less than beautiful ones. Many people, including judges, will focus on the bad ideas and that is how they will remember your work.
Your should pick ONE and not show the others, except possibly as a played-down side issue showing the flexibility of your concept.

olpro! Is that some tact I see? Looks like we're both learning things on here! :) Seriously though, as always, I appreciate and value your advice--You're right; I decided to just include all my experiments to show the different approaches for this concept. More than anything, I was hoping to seed (or perhaps...support?) the idea of possibly having different bodies for the 818 (as some suspect might be Dave's secret intentions behind the 818).

My favorite personal submission has been this one, which I've more or less avoided showing around...but after seeing the proposed 818 frame, it doesn't look very compatible:

1990199119921993


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53QmMrWa4Js

-Mike

[Oppenheimer]

That X8 is nice, but if I saw one zip by me, I don't think I'd be able to tell if it was this or a K1-Attack. But I do like it.

[Hiryu]

That X8 is nice, but if I saw one zip by me, I don't think I'd be able to tell if it was this or a K1-Attack. But I do like it.

Thanks!

Interesting; I was afraid of the X8 looking too Ferrari-ish from the front (mainly from its lights and front fender flares) or Tesla Roadster-ish from the back--but I never once thought of it resembling the K1 (especially because of the way the K1 shows its internals through the bonnet, has the open headlights, and has some sharper edges, etc.). Thanks for pointing that out--either way, the X8 probably isn't anything like what FFR is looking for.

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8FrontSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8HighSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8LowSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8SideTransparent.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8RearSide.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8Top.jpg
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8Rear.jpg

Oh well, I'm more proud of it than any of my other submissions (which, granted, isn't probably saying much :D ).

Mike

[riptide motorsport]

hiryu the vixen concept is so cool. .I like it.

[Hiryu]

hiryu the vixen concept is so cool. .I like it.

Thank you very much! I was hoping that maybe everybody might see at least one spec that they might like in the list (though as has been stated, I probably shouldn't have done the entire "shotgun" approach with all the specs...then again, for me, this is mainly for fun)

[GUNS]

Thanks!

Interesting; I was afraid of the X8 looking too Ferrari-ish from the front (mainly from its lights and front fender flares) or Tesla Roadster-ish from the back--but I never once thought of it resembling the K1 (especially because of the way the K1 shows its internals through the bonnet, has the open headlights, and has some sharper edges, etc.). Thanks for pointing that out--either way, the X8 probably isn't anything like what FFR is looking for.



Oh well, I'm more proud of it than any of my other submissions (which, granted, isn't probably saying much :D ).

Mike

Mike, I know that I have been critical of your designs in the past, but your X8 concept is a very solid overall design. I'm not a fan of the chrome looking accents, but you definitely have something to be proud of.

[streetroadandtrack]

Dave,

I know many people will not like this but it will keep the price down in the long run.

I am new to this site but not to the car forum world. I think the concept idea is spot on. However, I think the awd idea is not ideal. I rather have a mid engine rear wheel drive car. Making this vehicle OBD-II compliant is a must for those people who want to drive it in all 50 states legal on the road.

Having a targa top seems to allow the vehicle cage. The fixed rear window will allow people to drive the car and make it more weather proof. Doors are a must if someone does not want to have doors they can always bond them and get rid of them that way.

The engine should be a 2GR-fe. Many people have already proven this engine for swaps into mid engine cars. The 2GR-fe sells about 1 million units each year, makes about 275 HP. As well as a sports mode automatic or a 6 speed manual. Forced induction via a supercharger had already been designed. They can be found all around the world for about $2000 US dollars complete for the n/a edition. parts are easy to come by and can be found at most autozone, pepboys, etc...

I know I am jumping in months late on this discussion. I have more to say but must catch a flight.

[GUNS]

Dave,

I know many people will not like this but it will keep the price down in the long run.

I am new to this site but not to the car forum world. I think the concept idea is spot on. However, I think the awd idea is not ideal. I rather have a mid engine rear wheel drive car. Making this vehicle OBD-II compliant is a must for those people who want to drive it in all 50 states legal on the road.

Having a targa top seems to allow the vehicle cage. The fixed rear window will allow people to drive the car and make it more weather proof. Doors are a must if someone does not want to have doors they can always bond them and get rid of them that way.

The engine should be a 2GR-fe. Many people have already proven this engine for swaps into mid engine cars. The 2GR-fe sells about 1 million units each year, makes about 275 HP. As well as a sports mode automatic or a 6 speed manual. Forced induction via a supercharger had already been designed. They can be found all around the world for about $2000 US dollars complete for the n/a edition. parts are easy to come by and can be found at most autozone, pepboys, etc...

I know I am jumping in months late on this discussion. I have more to say but must catch a flight.


I suggest you actually do some more research on this project before you start posting.

[thebeerbaron]

...
I rather have a mid engine rear wheel drive car.
...
The engine should be a 2GR-fe.
...


Just a friendly reminder - the 818 will be rear wheel drive. Even if FFR wanted to, the mid-engined design and use of the Subaru drivetrain prevents AWD from happening (without a hell of a lot of custom work).

And the reason the Subaru engine is used is so that the car can be true single-donor: as we understand it, everything not included in the kit from FFR will come from a single car. Using a FWD drivetrain in a mid-engine configuration pretty much requires either custom uprights/hub carriers at one end, or uprights from two cars.

If you really, really, really want to use that Toyota engine in a MR car, you might like the Midlana Project (http://www.midlana.com/). It's a DIY, drivetrain-agnostic lightweight sports car. A totally different kettle of fish, but maybe that'll float your boat.

[readymix]

Dave,

I know many people will not like this but it will keep the price down in the long run.

I am new to this site but not to the car forum world. I think the concept idea is spot on. However, I think the awd idea is not ideal. I rather have a mid engine rear wheel drive car. Making this vehicle OBD-II compliant is a must for those people who want to drive it in all 50 states legal on the road.

Having a targa top seems to allow the vehicle cage. The fixed rear window will allow people to drive the car and make it more weather proof. Doors are a must if someone does not want to have doors they can always bond them and get rid of them that way.

The engine should be a 2GR-fe. Many people have already proven this engine for swaps into mid engine cars. The 2GR-fe sells about 1 million units each year, makes about 275 HP. As well as a sports mode automatic or a 6 speed manual. Forced induction via a supercharger had already been designed. They can be found all around the world for about $2000 US dollars complete for the n/a edition. parts are easy to come by and can be found at most autozone, pepboys, etc...

I know I am jumping in months late on this discussion. I have more to say but must catch a flight.

Wow, fella. You took a big head first dive. Might want to check that there's water in the pool first.

[riptide motorsport]

Everybody's a critic!:)

[Hiryu]

Mike, I know that I have been critical of your designs in the past, but your X8 concept is a very solid overall design. I'm not a fan of the chrome looking accents, but you definitely have something to be proud of.

Thanks man--I honestly don't think I could have gotten a compliment from anybody else here that made me happier.

As for the chrome, I'm actually not the biggest fan of it on sports car myself (though I like how the Sky did it). But I thought that maybe if chrome parts or even a chrome coating were cheap enough to include, it might make a $10k kit look more upscale? I also thought it could be replaced with carbon fiber, etc. on higher-spec versions. Just experimenting and having fun, though.

Out of curiosity, I added two new versions that do away with the chrome:

Carbon fiber in place of all chrome (including wheels, as for a race-spec, for example):
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8CF.jpg

Full body color in place of chrome:
http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X8Final/X8BodyColor.jpg

Thanks again-
Mike

[readymix]

They could have a matte silver finish too, not necessarily chrome. Gives it that raw cast aluminum look. To be honest, when I saw the first pic of your design, the first thing I thought was "Those silvery parts I would probably just paint along with the rest of the body." I have seen that alot of people send their cars off to get painted, I prefer to paint things myself, so I can kinda see past odd color choices in that respect.

[Gun Bunny]

I submitted my original design:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg (http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg)

Here's a video of the different specs and respective hardtops swapping out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IljyDTprr-w

I know an (early?) frame for the 818 leaked out, but luckily these designs seem to work with the frame for the most part (need to replace the roll hoops with the main bar, etc.).

Mike

P.S. When you make fun of them, think of something a bit more intelligent and useful than "they look like crappy video game cars". :)

Holy. F*&%. :O

Dude, I think you nailed the concept perfectly. It's hard to get a good grasp on the lines of the individual specs with all of them on the same pic, as they get a little grainy close up, but I love where you've taken this. I only have two nits to pick with it:

1) I see a lot of pure roadsters there in the pics, what would the hard tops look like?

2) I can totally see the front spoiler on the Spec B catching in the pavement on a hard right hander and turning the front fiberglass into origami.

All in all, I want to build at least three of those designs.

[BrandonDrums]

I submitted my original design:

http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg (http://www.murtaya.com/Mike/FFR/X1/X1Presentation.jpg)

Here's a video of the different specs and respective hardtops swapping out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IljyDTprr-w

I know an (early?) frame for the 818 leaked out, but luckily these designs seem to work with the frame for the most part (need to replace the roll hoops with the main bar, etc.).

Mike

P.S. When you make fun of them, think of something a bit more intelligent and useful than "they look like crappy video game cars". :)


I like all of these but only a couple would be serious submissions. My critique is pick 1 or 2 and really get detailed with all of the specifications, panels, cooling vents etc. and submit. There are some viable cars in the list but also some that are way too outlandish for this competition and I think they dilute your overall portfolio of 818 concepts.

I dig Spec A,C,R and F the most. All things considered I would just pick Spec R and F and really go at it and save the rest for backlog concepts. Just my opinion.

I'd drive any of those though!

[olpro]

Here’s a quick sketch to show a step-over-side design that could have an optional gull wing door-roof added rather easily.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/img112copy.jpg

[streetroadandtrack]

I suggest you actually do some more research on this project before you start posting.

Guns, wow thanks!:rolleyes: ok now that I got that out of my system


Just a friendly reminder - the 818 will be rear wheel drive. Even if FFR wanted to, the mid-engined design and use of the Subaru drivetrain prevents AWD from happening (without a hell of a lot of custom work).
If you really, really, really want to use that Toyota engine in a MR car, you might like the Midlana Project (http://www.midlana.com/). It's a DIY, drivetrain-agnostic lightweight sports car. A totally different kettle of fish, but maybe that'll float your boat.
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I agree on the custom work, however most people will end up being in over their head anyways. As most people have pipedreams about cars that will never come. That being said hopefully everyone here will build the car of their dreams someday.
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Most FFR cars end up being way over budget anyways so a single donor is not the issue. Many people end up buying many new parts and going with the attitude of they want an unmolested part anyways. Many of the FFR vehicles here where I live look like show pieces. The idea of using a different engine to get good common engine world wide is not a bad thing. There are many more Toyota dealers and parts out there than Subaru. This allowing the car to be world wide common sourced. Well I understand many people like the Idea of a Subaru powered car why reinvent the wheel. Lotus ,which is known for light weight good fuel economy and superb power, chooses to go with Toyota engines and transmissions and they are not even owned by them. If Subaru was a a better idea do you not think a multi million dollar company who specializes in Mid engine vehicles would jump on that idea? The GTM requires parts from atleast 2 different cars and most people seem to want something like that car.

Also Lotus uses this combination, many of the parts you are worried about custom uprights/hub carriers at one end have already been solved. Other parts could come from the SW20 series MR2 (2 generation) once again lower the price.

Lotus is what most people will compare this car agianst, so why not go nose to nose and get a car lighter using similar platforms so parts can be borrowed from their research and engineering to simplify the build.

For those people who want a track car and race places like Daytona or Sebring the 6 speed may not suite them however there is a 5 speed that works as well.

All the parts would still come from a single manufacture but not necessarily a single car. However, like I said before I imagine most people getting more new parts than used, or buying several parts from different sources to get the best parts they can find for their money.

I am not saying the EJ engines are bad, but I want to make sure people think about the elephant in the room. 1 million plus engines are made each year A LOT more than the EJ series.

The midlana is not my cup of tea sorry.


Wow, fella. You took a big head first dive. Might want to check that there's water in the pool first.

ReadyMix, I understand most pools up there still have ice cubes floating in them, however I did check and there is plenty of water in the pool. you may want to check for AFR in the pool :cool:. I was not trying to stir a big pot of brown stuff, how ever it appears I have.

I understood this may not be a popular idea but a company does need to look at how it plans to make it all 50 state legal, or who ever is building it will, World markets and price. The flame suit will be back on so you all may continue to thrash me about. However if someone doesnt introduce an idea companies end up like Chrysler GM and Ford.

flame suite back on and ready to be fired at. I will be more than glad to drive to Ormond Beach and show Grassroots what I am trying to discuss here as well. Heck I'll even let them road test is on US-92. If you do not know what I am talking about there write them a letter and ask about how smooth that road is ;).

now back to the thinking(rubber) room.

[Hiryu]

Holy. F*&%. :O

Dude, I think you nailed the concept perfectly. It's hard to get a good grasp on the lines of the individual specs with all of them on the same pic, as they get a little grainy close up, but I love where you've taken this. I only have two nits to pick with it:

1) I see a lot of pure roadsters there in the pics, what would the hard tops look like?

2) I can totally see the front spoiler on the Spec B catching in the pavement on a hard right hander and turning the front fiberglass into origami.

All in all, I want to build at least three of those designs.


Thanks so much!


Each version/spec has a hardtop (kinda seen in each spec's right-most image, and even harder to see in the x-ray image). Also, in each spec's second rotation in the youtube video, I attached its respective hardtop. I've also since added more images to my profile's picture albums if you want to check it out (here's hoping this link works): Hiryu's Picture Albums (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?u=949)

You're completely correct about the Spec B's front spoiler; another issue I saw was that it prevented the front clamshell from opening as far as it should. But Spec B (along with some of the others, but especially Spec B) was just a crazy concept spec; I doubt even carbon fiber would be strong enough to support the asymmetrical wings from the one side.



I like all of these but only a couple would be serious submissions. My critique is pick 1 or 2 and really get detailed with all of the specifications, panels, cooling vents etc. and submit. There are some viable cars in the list but also some that are way too outlandish for this competition and I think they dilute your overall portfolio of 818 concepts.

I dig Spec A,C,R and F the most. All things considered I would just pick Spec R and F and really go at it and save the rest for backlog concepts. Just my opinion.

I'd drive any of those though!

If there's one thing I learned from this submission, is that this is certainly one case where "throwing whatever I've got" at the judges is not advised--nor will having some less-than-pretty designs in with decent designs make the decent designs look better. At this point, though, with all the talent on here (i.e., not really hoping to win anything anymore and just having fun), and considering nobody would see all these concepts otherwise (which, actually, might have been a good thing :) ), I just threw them all into the presentation for fun. But lessoned learned for next time. I'm just glad people are picking out some that they actually like and wouldn't mind driving around in; that's the most exciting thing for me.

Thanks again!

Mike

[2KWIK4U]

Here’s a quick sketch to show a step-over-side design that could have an optional gull wing door-roof added rather easily.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/img112copy.jpg

I do really like that, well thought out for a quick draw.

[Vman7]

Here is a "Sneak Peek" of Vantage side view.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2113&d=1306042629

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2112&d=1306042627

[bromikl]

Here’s a quick sketch to show a step-over-side design that could have an optional gull wing door-roof added rather easily.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/img112copy.jpg

+1 LIKE!

Removable Gull-wing doors might be the way to go. We might even re-use those over-sized Subaru door hinges. :)

I'd love to see this one fleshed out. Challenges I see right away: The top of the windshield will have to come up. Front and rear overhangs are longer than they need be. You might be able to get the step-over even lower, I wish I could see the overlay of the chassis. Could be a winner!

[bromikl]

Here is a "Sneak Peek" of Vantage side view.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2113&d=1306042629

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2112&d=1306042627

I'd drive that. Thanks for the targa. Can't wait to see the front end. :)

[stephen]

now I like this so far

- Stephen

[olpro]

Here are a few more thoughts on a possible build. The main body shell is done in one big piece, Meyers Manx style. It includes the rad shroud, front tank mounting pan (alternate to Subie under-seat location), cowl with wiper mounting bosses, windshield mounting flanges, and targa roof area. It also picks up flanges for the hood and engine cover – which are trimmed to upstanding flanges for rubber seals.
This main shell incorporates the roof and engine cover INNERS, which are trimmed off and bonded to the separate outers. Hood and engine cover are fiberglass panels (and provided with base kit) but roof skin option (gullwing type) is probably vacformed polycarbonate, selectively painted.
This kind of roof-door is very light, rather flimsy but could have cam locks at front and rear lower corners to pull it into place. Longitudinal steel tubes at centerline are necessary to stabilize windshield and pick up simple gullwing hinges.
Backlite could be flat tempered glass and hinge from bottom to lay over engine cover. This might obstruct air intakes in engine cover but maybe not since best high pressure area is probably at the rear just in front of the spoiler.
“Roof-down” storage of gullwing panels onboard is problem unless maybe they hinge at the dripline to be more compact.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/allanflowers/img120copy.jpg