JimLev's Build

[JimLev]

Finally got something on order today.
The GM Connect and Cruise LS3 package. I really wanted a 6 speed but FFR said I've have to hack up the tunnel to make it fit and it would take up pedal box space. I got the 4L65E tranny.
They said it could arrive in a few days.
I haven't orders the car kit yet, will do that in a few days, still trying to decide on options.

Questions for you '33 guys.
1) What is the length of the car?
2) I'll be ordering the Vintage A/C w/heat. The compressor doesn't come with the kit. Vintage says the GM one won't work with their system. They have an expensive accessory drive system that should work. What have you guys used?

Thanks,
JimLev

[RoadRacer]

https://www.factoryfive.com/33-hot-rod/design/ has lots of 33 specs.

e.g.

Wheelbase: 112 in.
Overall Length: 154 in.
Front Track: 54.5 in.
Rear Track: 60.0 in.
Overall Height: 52.5 in.
Overall Width: 72.0 in
Ground Clearance: 4.5 in.

(you just have to ignore that they say the car weighs 2150 and 2250 on the same page!)

[JimLev]

Thanks RoadRacer, guess I missed that page.

[Marlar]

I used one from Eddie Motorsports. It is a very nice unit but it is expensive.

[JimLev]

I used one from Eddie Motorsports. It is a very nice unit but it is expensive.
Thanks, I'll look into that one. Also read that someone used parts from a CTS-V, cost a little under a grand, they weren't polished aluminum or chrome. I could powder coat them.

FFR told me I couldn't use the electric power steering with the LS engines. I just finished reading a few build threads where they were used. Wonder why FFR said it wouldn't work?

[wallace18]

It does work but the motor sticks below the oil pan and frame about 5/8". My customer and I felt it was worth still having the electric P/S. We also used the Vintage Air front runner system.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24901-Richey-s-33-build-by-wallace18

[JimLev]

Wallace18, thanks for the info and link. I was going to PM you today and ask about the electric PS, don't need to now.
I'm adding this to my list.

[CVOBill]

Congrats on the new build! I have a Coyote engine so I'm not much help but Wallace has done enough of these to guide you.

[TDSapp]

2) I'll be ordering the Vintage A/C w/heat. The compressor doesn't come with the kit. Vintage says the GM one won't work with their system. They have an expensive accessory drive system that should work. What have you guys used?



I bought my AC unit from a third party vendor and he sent a unit from Classic Auto Air and it included the billet controls, a trinary switch, a compressor, and polished compressor lines and pulley. If you check my budget page at http://hotrod.sapp-family.com you will find the prices that I have paid for everything in my build and on the link page you will find a link to the vendors. The AC system was $1,850.00.

[JimLev]

Thanks again everyone, wish I was a speed reader and could read all of your build threads in a few hours. Lots of good info.

Tim, I spoke with Steve at Classic Auto. I now have second thoughts about using the Vintage Air system.
Steve said his system can mount the compressor high or low and it will align with the LS3 pulleys.
Help? Does it align? I don't really want to spend $2K+ just to get pulleys to align.

[TDSapp]

I can't help you with that part, I am running an SBC out of a Corvette. So it already has a serpentine belt and pulleys for it. I also just got my motor into the frame and have not even started putting the accessories on it yet.

[DaveS53]

A low mount AC compressor from vintage air is actually made by Alan Grove Components. It fits really tight to the block, but it still might interfere with a diagonal tube on the frame. Same goes for the Cadillac CTS low mount alternator. There's a recent post on the other forum from someone who made their own low mount bracket, that is similar to the Alan Grove product. He says it fits, but it has no belt tensioner pulley, which is not ideal. I have this Alan Grove mount and recently took some pics from below, to show how tight the compressor fits. The body of the compressor doesn't clear one of the block mounting bolts by more than a few thousandths of a inch. You'd have to use a countersunk bolt to gain much. Using the Corvette balancer will provide the best chance of clearing, since the belt is 3/4 inch closer to the block than a Camaro balancer.

http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/images/Instructions/144R.pdf

Here's the CTS accessory drive, GM part number 19299070, . It includes a PS pump that's not needed, but could be resold. The PS pump should be replaced with an idler pulley.

https://paceperformance.com/i-6485404-19299070-cpp-accessory-drive-system-without-a-c-fits-ls1-ls6-engines.html

Here's an idler pulley:

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-6391-dirty-dingo-ls-gen-3-gen-4-drivers-side-billet-idler-pulley-bracket-kit-corvette-accessories.aspx

Some dummies either bend the offending tube out a bit or cut some of it out and put in a curved section. Either method makes the tube worthless, as part of a truss frame. You might as well remove the entire tube and not replace it. A better solution is to remove the tube and replace it with one or two tubes that will clear the compressor or alternator, but still use straight tubes on either side of the upper A-arm mount to box between the larger upper and lower tubes. It's the same technique used in floor trusses where a rectangular opening needs to be included for duct work routing.

Both the compressor and alternator sit so low that they hardly show. No way would I powder coat either one.

[JOP33]

Finally got something on order today.
The GM Connect and Cruise LS3 package. I really wanted a 6 speed but FFR said I've have to hack up the tunnel to make it fit and it would take up pedal box space. I got the 4L65E tranny.
They said it could arrive in a few days.
I haven't orders the car kit yet, will do that in a few days, still trying to decide on options.

Questions for you '33 guys.
1) What is the length of the car?
2) I'll be ordering the Vintage A/C w/heat. The compressor doesn't come with the kit. Vintage says the GM one won't work with their system. They have an expensive accessory drive system that should work. What have you guys used?

Thanks,
JimLev

Jim - My engine actually came with the compressor installed and I ordered my AC/Heat and received before the engine, so I actually have brand new, chrome Sandon AC Compressor still in the box. I don't know if it would work for your set-up, but PM if you're interested and I can send pics. Just looking to cover cost and shipping, not get rich.

[JimLev]

PM sent.

If Clico fasteners don't come with the kit how many of them do I need to get? I see that 1/8 and 3/16 are needed.

[progmgr1]

Multiple builders have suggested that you will need maybe 35-50 of the 1/8 (copper) clecos and 5-10 of the 3/16 (gold) clecos, along with the special pliers. I've also found that the small clamps are useful for holding sheets together where there are no close rivet holes. These are available from all the usual sources, but I found the best prices on Amazon.
Keith

[JimLev]

OK, thanks. They are now on order from Amazon.

[AJT '33]

OK, thanks. They are now on order from Amazon.

Hey Jim, I bought the base kit and supplemented it with additonal 1/8" fasteners, well worth it! I also got it from Amazon.
Bought this kit: https://www.amazon.com/CLECO-KIT-50-CLECOS-PLIERS/dp/B00K5REET6/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1513956572&sr=8-6&keywords=cleco+fastener+kit and added these fasteners: https://www.amazon.com/Cleco-Sheet-Metal-Fasteners-K2S50-1/dp/B06WP51WDT/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1513956656&sr=8-6&keywords=cleco+fastener+1%2F8 Have fun!

[JimLev]

AJT'33, your first link is what I ordered.
I'll get the second link ordered.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[AJT '33]

AJT'33, your first link is what I ordered.
I'll get the second link ordered.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Dont be surprised how small the package is when you receive it, the picture makes it look big but its really not. :)

[JimLev]

Got my '33 Hotrod order placed today. Tony said it would be done on Feb 10th.
The LS3 and tranny should be here this week.
Powder coated chassis, IRS with spindles, rear split exhaust, roadster seats, standard hood, platinum gauge package, heat/sound insulation, chrome tilt steering column, EFI fuel system, electric steering, AC and heat, power windows, hard top, full fenders, and 13" rear brake kit.
Just need to get wheels and tires now.

Can't wait to get started. I'll probably be bugging a few of you guys with a few questions once I get started.

[JimLev]

The engine and tranny arrived this afternoon.
I'll need to make a few calls on Monday, the tranny install kit and torque converter are missing.
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[bakerboerne]

Before you go spending a lot of money on ac mounts check out some of the ls swap sites. I used a setup from LSsimple ... the whole thing including compressor, mounts, belt and alternator was under $700... works great with the vintage air.
I would NOT modify the frame to put in a low mount compressor... The only problem with the high mount is if you are going to run the body side panels. Look at the video on my build page.
Also if you wanted to go with a standard you could have put a TKO behind the LS motor. It is a 5 speed not 6 but it is much smaller.

[JimLev]

Thanks for that LSsimple info, just finished reading your whole build thread.
I'm not going to cut the frame but want the alt to fit so I can put the sides on. I'll have to figure out something.
I could have lived with the 5 speed I guess, my other car has a 6 speed that I really like. Oh well, too late now, the 4L65E is here so that's what I'm going with.

[wrp]

Love those motors

[JimLev]

Monday is a holiday so it looks like I won't have any answers until Tuesday.
My wiring harness and ECU's are suppose to be here on Wednesday.
I need to find a shifter for this tranny, what did you guys use on a 4L60E or 4L65E tranny?

[DaveS53]

Someone posted about participating in a trial of a new shifter from Lokar that sounds promising. I have an older Lokar shifter that is supposed to work with a the 4L60-70E series of trans, but I found it lacking. I had to make a connecting rod from 3/8" steel rod that is bent like a snake to connect the shifter to the trans and I found that the throw was about 11% too great, so I had to alter the length of the lever arm on the shifter to match the needs of the trans.

Here's a little info from the other forum:

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/454977-cardifkid-s-33-build-706-a-3.html

[JimLev]

Thanks again Dave. Found a lot of good info there.
Also saw that Cardifkid found that a set of BBK 40200 block hugger headers were a perfect fit for his LS3 in his '33.
I just bought them for mine.

[HVACMAN]

Monday is a holiday so it looks like I won't have any answers until Tuesday.
My wiring harness and ECU's are suppose to be here on Wednesday.
I need to find a shifter for this tranny, what did you guys use on a 4L60E or 4L65E tranny?

I have spoken with Lokar and they have an electronic shifter coming out hopefully by the end of January.

[DaveS53]

More info about low mount AC. Post 153 has pics of a home made bracket that allows a Sanden compressor to easily clear the frame. I don't see how the compressor could be moved much closer to the balancer, than the Alan Grove bracket, since they both use the same mounting bolts locations on the block and I know that my compressor almost touches one of those mounting bolt heads.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/593609-33-ls1-t56-build.html

One down side to this home made bracket is it has no belt tensioner. It looks like a lot of hours of work. I can't imagine cutting 3/16" steel with a reciprocating saw. Abrasive cutoff blades or a plasma cutter are both faster. I bought a 10" abrasive chop saw from Harbor Freight for this type of work and I also used my 4" hand held grinder with thin cutoff wheels. A drill press is a must and so is welding equipment.

You have to watch the clocking angle of the lower compressor fitting. If it's rotated too low, oil will pour out of the opening. That means it won't work in that position.

My link to the CTS accessory drive seems to have been dropped from my earlier post. It's GM part number 19299070.

https://paceperformance.com/i-6485404-19299070-cpp-accessory-drive-system-without-a-c-fits-ls1-ls6-engines.html

[HVACMAN]

Thanks again Dave. Found a lot of good info there.
Also saw that Cardifkid found that a set of BBK 40200 block hugger headers were a perfect fit for his LS3 in his '33.
I just bought them for mine.

Let us know about those headers. I haven't ordered mine yet. I thought you had to have custom down pipes built for the BBK's.

[Smoking Joe]

Yes U well need custom made down pipes with BBK headers the same with stock cast iron headers the come on the LS3
good mews is FFR reimbursed me the cost $385.00

[HVACMAN]

I'm planning to use the Hooker 8501-4hkr titanium ceramic coated manifolds. They will work with the FF down pipes.

[JimLev]

I have spoken with Lokar and they have an electronic shifter coming out hopefully by the end of January.

Great, even if they are a few months late I doubt I'll be ready for it.
Just trying to get everything I need on order before I really need it.

[JimLev]

Yes U well need custom made down pipes with BBK headers the same with stock cast iron headers the come on the LS3
good mews is FFR reimbursed me the cost $385.00
Thanks for that bit of info.

Those Hookers look pretty much like the manifolds that came on my LS3.
The BBK's will be here in a few days.

[HVACMAN]

Monday is a holiday so it looks like I won't have any answers until Tuesday.
My wiring harness and ECU's are suppose to be here on Wednesday.
I need to find a shifter for this tranny, what did you guys use on a 4L60E or 4L65E tranny?

I special ordered the new Lokar Electronic Sport Shifter from Jegs today. Travis at Lokar was a tremendous help.I will let you know how it works out.

[JimLev]

Got any links so I can read about it, see pics???

[DaveS53]

http://www.lokar.com/assets/instructions/INS0169-Electronic-Sport-Mode-Shifter.pdf

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-ess64l60elp

The GM trans controller is set up for electronic shifting. I have two switches mounted on my console, within easy reach. On switch turns on the electronic shift mode and a on-off-on intermittent switch causes up or down shifts, with the trans in D or OD. There is no way to electronically shift anything but gears 1-4 and you must be careful with down shifts. A production car has protection against an engine-blowing accidental downshift, but this controller does not. I haven't used mine much, but it seemed like there was a big lag between pushing the switch and the actual shift. The other alternative is a ratchet shifter that only allows one gear up or down per shift.

Here's a couple of pics of the Alan grove low mount AC. The compressor position is fixed.

https://s5.postimg.org/amlx4mdlj/DSC00951.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/mohayrmtv/)

https://s5.postimg.org/z342z3m1z/DSC00952.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/48wu1dgf7/)

[JimLev]

Dave, thanks again for all the info.
I remember seeing that shifter last year so is that one not the new one that Smokin Joe was talking about?

HVACMAN, is this the one you ordered?
www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-ess64l60elp/overview/

All my missing parts (9 boxes) showed up yesterday, cables, ECU's, MAF, O2 sensors, torque converter, tranny install parts, etc. as well as all the Clico clips and tool. It's Christmas all over again.

[HVACMAN]

Dave, thanks again for all the info.
I remember seeing that shifter last year so is that one not the new one that Smokin Joe was talking about?

HVACMAN, is this the one you ordered?
www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-ess64l60elp/overview/

All my missing parts (9 boxes) showed up yesterday, cables, ECU's, MAF, O2 sensors, torque converter, tranny install parts, etc. as well as all the Clico clips and tool. It's Christmas all over again.

The one I ordered is ESS64L60EHM. According to Travis at Lokar it is a new part number. I had to call JEG's and they called Lokar to drop ship direct to me. As it turned out it took two days to get it done.

[JimLev]

HVACMAN, thanks for the p/n.
I spread out the wiring harness, didn't think it would have so many connectors. Will need to see if some aren't used.
The BBK headers arrived today, they are ceramic coated on the inside and outside, not exactly tuned length like their write up said. Have to be better that the GM log manifold. They do look better. Here are some pics.

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[1932]

Dam, i just like engines!

[DaveS53]

Every plug on the harness goes to something on the engine or trans. That's what makes it fairly easy - they are all labeled. The engine harness has a right and left side, which becomes obvious when you see the side that has the cam position sensor and engine temp plugs (left side). I had so much extra wire that I decided to remove the plastic conduit from most of the harness inside the car, so I could take the excess wire and loop it into two turns and attach it to supporting steel tubes behind the firewall. No way would I cut and splice about 80 wires.

Finding a place for both the GM fuse panel and the chassis fuse panel may be a challenge, but a lot of other people have done it, so there should be pics somewhere.

Read the instructions for the MAF sensor location - it is critical. It goes in the middle of a minimum 6" length of straight 4" tube. I decided to ignore the instructions and try something different, and paid the price. I wasted about a week, trying two different locations that would not allow the engine to run properly and finally gave up. If the air filter gets hit by air flow from the radiator fan, it's likely to cause problems and require a protective shroud.

[JimLev]

After looking over the wiring none of the injectors or the coil connectors are labeled, not a problem, easy to figure out where they go.
I was thinking the same, need to coil up the wires. If I had the same pins and a pin extractor for these connectors I'd probably shorten the wires.
I did see the info on the MAF. Think I'll get a 90 deg connector for the throttle body and then a long straight section which I'll mount the MAF sensor in.
I'm going to call Lokar on Monday to see about ordering that shifter that HVACMAN just got.

The GM fuse box has a lot of empty fuse locations to add more circuits. I'm going to see if I can take all of the circuits from the Hotrod fuse box and move them over to the GM box.

[HVACMAN]

I really like those headers. They definitely look a lot better than the GM manifolds. i'll bet they perform better too. Let me know what you have to do about down pipes.

[JimLev]

They do look pretty nice. BBK had a 10% off if ordered before 12/31/17. Ordered mine on 12/30.
Will let you know when the kit shows up, probably won't be here till the 3 week in Feb.
Cardifkid said they fit with no issues, we'll see. (Edit...think he was referring to the engine fit and not the down pipe, as SmokinJoe has mentioned)
Do you have that Lokar shifter test fitted on the tranny yet, any pics?

Edit: BBK website said 8-15HP from these, so I'll guess 10HP is more realistic. If they were long tube equal length headers I could easily see 15+ more HP.

They are a lot lighter than the GM manifolds too.

[HVACMAN]

They do look pretty nice. BBK had a 10% off if ordered before 12/31/17. Ordered mine on 12/30.
Will let you know when the kit shows up, probably won't be here till the 3 week in Feb.
Cardifkid said they fit with no issues, we'll see.
Do you have that Lokar shifter test fitted on the tranny yet, any pics?

It won't ship until the 12th. They initially said it wouldn't be available until the end of January. I should be able to mock it up but it is a floor mount. I haven't ordered stage 2 yet.

[DaveS53]

I used these manifolds with the LS3 in my '37, but I also had to build my own stainless steel exhaust system from scratch, so it had no impact on my project. They have 3" collectors.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tru-Ram-LS-Exhaust-Manifolds-Polished,53711.html

[JimLev]

Those look real nice Dave, need some sunglasses on to look at them, lol.

[JimLev]

I spoke with Travis Johnson at Lokar today. He sent me some info on the shifter that HVACMAN ordered.
It's a 5 page PDF file, not sure if I can post those here. Anyone know if it possible?
Here's a pic of it. Not shown are the wires for the 3 switches, which are shown in the PDF.
Maybe I can scan the pages and save them as a JPG then post them if any of you are interested in this new shifter.
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[HVACMAN]

I spoke with Travis Johnson at Lokar today. He sent me some info on the shifter that HVACMAN ordered.
It's a 5 page PDF file, not sure if I can post those here. Anyone know if it possible?
Here's a pic of it. Not shown are the wires for the 3 switches, which are shown in the PDF.
Maybe I can scan the pages and save them as a JPG then post them if any of you are interested in this new shifter.
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You can download it from their website under: Support>Shifters>Automatic Electronic Sport Mode Shifter Installation Instructions

[JimLev]

Never found it there. Even put the p/n ESS64L60EHM in, nothing found. Anyways I have the printed info.

So today I got itchy just looking at the engine/tranny in the garage.
As much as I like black I usually find that black parts under the hood really show the dust and dirt.
On my other car I painted the manifold titanium silver which is the car color.
I had plenty of this color and clear left so I painted the top cover on the LS3. Will powder coat the valve covers soon.

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[CVOBill]

That looks great.

[erlihemi]

That will photograph well at the shows. Black wrinkle is one of the worst. I looks ok in sunlight, but holds dirt and is horrible to photograph.

[DaveS53]

Most people opt for covering the valve covers and the ugly coils. The GM wiring harness will also look pretty nasty, once all of the wiring harness is in place. There are quite a few magazine articles on making covers that hide the coils and wiring.

I opted for a one piece aluminum cover for the entire top of the engine, but it also provides support for my intake snorkel and covers the power steering pump.

[JimLev]

I'll make some small covers just to hide the coils. I'm not big on complete engine covers, gotta see the engine at car shows.
I think most of those "beauty" covers are there to keep the owner from touching anything, bring the car to the dealer and let them do whatever is required.

[HVACMAN]

The shifter arrived on Saturday. I haven't had time to play with it yet, but it looks fast even in the box.79616

[JimLev]

HVACMAN, thanks for the pic. How long is that shifter rod that goes up to the knob? Looks pretty short, which is what I want.
When I was talking to Travis at Lokar he said the shortest rod was 6".

I'll order the shifter in the next day or 2.
I bought an MSD DynaForce starter the other day.
Still have another 3+ weeks to wait before the kit shows up.
In the meantime I've been painting the garage walls and epoxy coating the garage floor.

[HVACMAN]

HVACMAN, thanks for the pic. How long is that shifter rod that goes up to the knob? Looks pretty short, which is what I want.
When I was talking to Travis at Lokar he said the shortest rod was 6".

I'll order the shifter in the next day or 2.
I bought an MSD DynaForce starter the other day.
Still have another 3+ weeks to wait before the kit shows up.
In the meantime I've been painting the garage walls and epoxy coating the garage floor.

This one is 4 1/2 inches. My reasoning was, because it is a floor mount, I plan to mount it to the trans tunnel and have the console even with the top of the mechanism. The worst thing that could happen is, I have to swap it to the 6 inch one.

[JimLev]

Thanks, I'm thinking about making a cutout in the trans tunnel and boxing it in to mount the body of the shifter a bit lower if at all possible. That would depend on the amount of space above the tranny and the bottom side of the tunnel.
I'll order mine today.

update: This shifter isn't on the Jegs on line catalog yet. It's Jegs p/n 625-ESS64L60EHM and ships directly from Lokar.

[TDSapp]

Thanks, I'm thinking about making a cutout in the trans tunnel and boxing it in to mount the body of the shifter a bit lower if at all possible. That would depend on the amount of space above the tranny and the bottom side of the tunnel.
I'll order mine today.

update: This shifter isn't on the Jegs on line catalog yet. It's Jegs p/n 625-ESS64L60EHM and ships directly from Lokar.


Here is the URL for the shifter. If you search for the shifter on Jegs it does not show up, but if you search with Google it does. Go figure.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Lokar/625/ESS64L60EHM/10002/-1

[JimLev]

The wait is over, the FFR semi showed up at 9AM this morning. I had 5 guys over to help with the unload and check off list.
Spent the rest of the day doing inventory on 1/2 of the boxes and laying some suspension parts out for install, hopefully will install the suspension tomorrow after I finish opening all the remaining boxes.
Already making a list of missing parts. Dave at FF said they know what's missing and will ship them as soon as they come in.
Will post some pics tomorrow.

[wrp]

I really like the detail on the engine cover. You might consider relocating the coil packs so they are under the headers with the wires run to the plugs from beneath. That would really make your clean look pop. I love that Lokar Shifter

[duff33]

Let the true fun begin, you probably have packing paper all over the place now as you unpack

[JimLev]

I really like the detail on the engine cover. You might consider relocating the coil packs so they are under the headers with the wires run to the plugs from beneath. That would really make your clean look pop. I love that Lokar Shifter

Yes, that would look nice but there isn't much room under the headers to run the plug wires.
The wires would need to make 180 deg turns out of the plug heat shields to get under the headers.

[JimLev]

Let the true fun begin, you probably have packing paper all over the place now as you unpack

Ugh, too much paper and empty boxes that I can't get rid of until the recycle place opened this Sat.
One thing that is a PITA is there are lots of parts in various boxes with no markings or p/n's on them.
Some aren't even bagged.

[TDSapp]

Ugh, too much paper and empty boxes that I can't get rid of until the recycle place opened this Sat.
One thing that is a PITA is there are lots of parts in various boxes with no markings or p/n's on them.
Some aren't even bagged.

It took me three weeks to get rid of all the boxes and paper that I had gotten that week. I had also unpacked two tool boxes and my sandblasting cabinet so I had a ton to put out.

[JimLev]

Figured I'd start assembling a few parts until I found out what I need was on backorder.
So I decided to do some powder coating, front suspension pieces and the calipers.
Will do the rear calipers next.

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[JimLev]

Forgot to add pics of the car delivery.
From this
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To this.
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And he's off to drop off a Daytona to someone in Utah.
Still has a Cobra and 818 to deliver after that.
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[RoadRacer]

You have a nice lot of room there!

[HVACMAN]

Nice garage!! Have fun with the build.

[JimLev]

Thanks RoadRacer and Andy. Missing front suspension parts will arrive on Monday.
In the mean time here is my latest question which I posted on the Roadster forum, as there are a lot more of them than hotrods. They must use the same calipers unless they upgraded.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27604-Need-some-help-rear-caliper-disassembly&p=315589#post315589

[wrp]

Love your garage, looking forward to your build

[JimLev]

Thanks wrp. Totem on the roadster forum had the info on getting the caliper apart.
Last night I assembled/installed the rear upper and lower suspension arms, made up a host of new words as the spacing between every mounting point was too small for the arms to fit into. Had to spread them apart almost 2mm to get them in.

[wrp]

You will have developed an entirely unique and new language by the time you finish. Most of us will understand it, even if we cannot speak it exactly.

[JimLev]

You will have developed an entirely unique and new language by the time you finish. Most of us will understand it, even if we cannot speak it exactly.

And today was no exception. Only 1/2 of the front control arms showed up today not to mention wrong hardware.

Any of you with the IRS diff have trouble mounting it?
The 2 front diff mounting holes get drilled out to 5/8" which I did. Can't get one of the bolts thru the bushing and into the diff mounting hole. The spacing of the frame front mounting holes is slightly off a good 1/8".
I'm not taking the diff out again, it's a bear to get back in by myself. Maybe I'll use a smaller size bolt. I've tried to force the diff to get it to align, no go.
Had to use a mirror at a 45° angle to get the pic.
82081

Also does this diff look like the pinion angle is a bit too high (pointing up)?
The front sticks up more than it looks like in the pic.
This is the first FF car I've done so maybe it's OK. It's just not like any other Chevy or BMW diff's I've done in the past.
82082

[AJT '33]

Any of you with the IRS diff have trouble mounting it?
The 2 front diff mounting holes get drilled out to 5/8" which I did. Can't get one of the bolts thru the bushing and into the diff mounting hole. The spacing of the frame front mounting holes is slightly off a good 1/8".
I'm not taking the diff out again, it's a bear to get back in by myself. Maybe I'll use a smaller size bolt. I've tried to force the diff to get it to align, no go.
Had to use a mirror at a 45° angle to get the pic.
82081

Also does this diff look like the pinion angle is a bit too high (pointing up)?
The front sticks up more than it looks like in the pic.
This is the first FF car I've done so maybe it's OK. It's just not like any other Chevy or BMW diff's I've done in the past.
82082

Here are a few pictures of my diff, and yes it was a bear trying to mount it but what you need to do is (looking from the rear of the car forward) get the back left/right bolts in, then the front left one, and leave them all loose but engaged to allow for some movement. Then you need to use the floor jack very carefully to roughly align the height then using the bolt carefully tap the last front right one into the front of the bushing sleeve until it engages the hole in the diff and slowly tap it in, once its more than a 1/4" in then you can tap it through and then "snug" it up along with all the others. If you have any of them tightened before they are all in then it will not work. You can even loosen the back right one more and then push the bolt in, to slightly twist the diff to align the front right hole, it does not take much to be honest, just slow and easy.

Here are a few pics of my install and the link to my build when I encountered the same thing. It will go in however you need to allow it to move within all four bushings to do so, don't use a smaller bolt.
82090 82091 82092
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26293-Black-amp-Copper-33-Hot-Rod-1028/page2 Post #51

[JimLev]

Thanks for the pics. Does the front of your diff angle up like mine??

I tried it every way I could. The spacing for the front holes in the diff and the frame hole spacing is not the same.
I have the 2 rear bolts only threaded in about 1/4" and the front left bolt into the diff mounting hole about the same.
I have a 2 foot crow bar trying to shove the diff over to get the hole close, it's not moving.
Still off enough so the bolt won't slide in. Might be time to pull out the die grinder.

82101

[AJT '33]

Thanks for the pics. Does the front of your diff angle up like mine??

I tried it every way I could. The spacing for the front holes in the diff and the frame hole spacing is not the same.
I have the 2 rear bolts only threaded in about 1/4" and the front left bolt into the diff mounting hole about the same.
I have a 2 foot crow bar trying to shove the diff over to get the hole close, it's not moving.
Still off enough so the bolt won't slide in. Might be time to pull out the die grinder.

82101

I will take some measurements tonight of the bolt spacing to see if it may match yours. I remember only needing to nudge it a bit and not ream the diff hole. Drop an email off to Tony at FFR maybe he can give you the tech spacing in the meantime and advise on elongating the hole. He has been an immense help to us in this build!

[JimLev]

Tony and I emailed and spoke on the phone, still doesn't fit.
He said the spacing is a compromise between the cast iron diff and the aluminum diff.
He didn't know the center to center spacing. He suggested grinding the tips of the bolts down and then driving them in.
Don't think I'll do it this way.
What I got for the front frame mounts ctr to ctr was 12 3/4", the diff front hole ctr to ctr spacing is 12 15/16".
At this point I have the diff unbolted with the urethane(?) bushings pulled out.
I'm going to grind some of the OD off the bushings on one side, this will allow the bushings to spread a little further apart. This should let me get the bolts in.
Will let you know how it works tomorrow.

[JimLev]

The diff is in. I ground down the edges of the bushings to adjust the spacing to match the front diff holes.
Took all of 30 min to do everything. I spent pretty much the whole day trying to get that diff to bolt in.

[AJT '33]

The diff is in. I ground down the edges of the bushings to adjust the spacing to match the front diff holes.
Took all of 30 min to do everything. I spent pretty much the whole day trying to get that diff to bolt in.
My son came over last night as I wanted to get the car rolling and on the lift, big night last night! He told me that since we drilled out the front holes he just reamed the diff holes on each side a bit and when we tried the second time he was able to tap it in without issue so sort of what Tony suggested. Definitely an improvement FFR should make for those future builders.

[JimLev]

Wish I had thought of grinding a little off the bushings first. That would have saved me a lot of time.
Got all of the rear suspension installed tonight, will do the rotors, calipers, and brake lines tomorrow.
82229

82230

I had some trouble getting the last spacer for the top Koni mount into the boxed in mounting point. Not a lot of room.
I then used some super glue to hold the spacers to the top mount, worked out great.

82231

[HVACMAN]

Just a quick word of advice Jim. Install the engine wiring harness on the engine before you install the engine in the car. I learned this lesson the hard way.

[JimLev]

Thanks for the heads up Hvacman.
I've got the rear done, waiting for the missing front suspension arms to show up sometime next week, I hope.
I need to make some room in the garage to take the body off the frame. Need to start work on the other parts of the car so I can unpack more boxes.

82266

82267

Had a few friends show up today with a present for the garage.
Just had to put it to good use.

82268

[JimLev]

Been a while since I updated this.
The brakes are all in and plumbed to the master cylinders.
Got the engine/tranny and driveshaft (correct length) installed this last weekend.
I'm working on the wiring now. The LS3 has an oil level/temp sensor in the side of the oil pan, has anyone ever hooked it up?
HVACMAN, I was in a hurry and didn't connect the engine wiring before I put the engine in, ugh. Getting that fat cable up between the frame and the back of the engine was a royal PITA.

I was looking at the 2 power distribution (fuse panels) trying to figure out where to mount the big GM box.
Looking inside it there is plenty of empty slots. I'm thinking maybe move all of the FFR circuits into the GM box. Will look into this more before I do anything.
Another FedEx shipment from FFR is coming tomorrow.

83167

83168

83169

83170

83171

[JimLev]

Got to spend most of the day in the garage.
I bought an ICT alt mount and modified it slightly to fit my alt down low.
Alignment looks good, will know when I get the belt and tensioner pulley next week.
It's easy to adjust if I need to.

Then started working on the supplied FFR tranny mount. Added some steel between the tranny and the mount, drilled a few holes, looks pretty good.
Haven't checked the angle yet, if it's off I can cut the supplied spacers.

Working on the wiring and exhaust will be next.
The BBK headers I bought will not mate up to the FFR front pipes, the angle is wrong, will need to either modify them of make new ones.

Wallace, thanks for the info on Replicaparts. Got his fan shroud today.
DaveS53, bought the DirtyDingo low side A/C mount parts yesterday, thanks for that info.

83298

83299

83300

[JimLev]

My DirtyDingo AC parts came in early, nice free Priority shipping from them.
To make it fit the front of the top bracket needed to be trimmed to keep it from hitting the top suspension bushing, same for the top front AC compressor ear.

83382

83383

I now have a little less than 1/4" clearance, which should be OK, if not I'll modify the top bracket and drill a hole lower in the ear.

83384

83385

83387

The AC belt and main idler pulley will be here tomorrow.

83386

Started connecting the exhaust pieces last night......only 9 more boxes of parts to go.
Still waiting for the steering column and the fuel regulator.

83388

Update....after looking at the compressor tubing connections I'm going to drill new mounting holes in the top bracket to swing the compressor up a little more.

[JimLev]

Got the Vintage Air box mounted as well as the Ididit steering column.
Next will be to install the Unisteer motor up on the firewall so it won't be below the oil pan.

84033

[TxMike64]

Next will be to install the Unisteer motor up on the firewall so it won't be below the oil pan.

So are you mounting the Unisteer unit on the firewall (engine side) or under the dash?
I'd like to see lots of picture of this...

[HVACMAN]

Got the Vintage Air box mounted as well as the Ididit steering column.
Next will be to install the Unisteer motor up on the firewall so it won't be below the oil pan.

84033

What will you use for the recommended 10 degree shim between the motor and firewall?

[JimLev]

Yes, on the engine side of the firewall. I'll post pics.
I've ordered a few 1/4" aluminum plates. One plate will be mounted directly to the Unisteer with a hinge at the bottom.
The other side of the hinge will bolt to the firewall so I can figure out what angle works best.
The sides of the plate will then have brackets (? still thinking what will work best) to attach it to the firewall.

[HVACMAN]

Yes, on the engine side of the firewall. I'll post pics.
I've ordered a few 1/4" aluminum plates. One plate will be mounted directly to the Unisteer with a hinge at the bottom.
The other side of the hinge will bolt to the firewall so I can figure out what angle works best.
The sides of the plate will then have brackets (? still thinking what will work best) to attach it to the firewall.

I can't wait to see how this works. I have been considering changing the oil pan to allow the PS motor to rotate up. This may be a better option and solve two issues. It would also allow the module to be mounted in the cabin without extending the harnesses. Please post a lot of pictures.

[JimLev]

No problem, I'll post pics. I'm doing this for 3 reasons, didn't want the PS motor hanging down, didn't want to buy a different oil pan, and I wanted the module inside the car.
It will probably take me a week before it's done, I won't forget the pics.

[myjones]

Yes, on the engine side of the firewall. I'll post pics.
I've ordered a few 1/4" aluminum plates. One plate will be mounted directly to the Unisteer with a hinge at the bottom.
The other side of the hinge will bolt to the firewall so I can figure out what angle works best.
The sides of the plate will then have brackets (? still thinking what will work best) to attach it to the firewall.

Jim
A few comments from what I recall on my firewall mounted Uni-steer PS.
IIRC I moved it down and inboard from the original FF firewall bearing location so the PS motor cleared the chassis
tubes and the inboard shaft still cleared the pedal arms. Be careful not to pull the PS motor too far into the engine
bay with your plate and hinge mount. The U-joints on the shaft between the column and Unisteer will need a much
bigger area to swing in if they are penetrating the firewall instead of staying inside the cockpit. When you get it sorted
out ditch the hinge and fold up a 1 piece plate mount for a clean look. Lovin your idea so keep the pictures coming.
Dale

[JimLev]

Thanks for the info Dale. I'm thinking about having 1/2 of the U joint going thru the firewall.
My aluminum plates came in today, I'll probably be starting the Unisteer this weekend.

Today I decided to not frustrate myself trying to figure out how to stuff 10 lbs of cables/wires into a 5 lb space so I moved on to the fuel system. Wanted to actually accomplish something.
I bought the FFR EFI fuel system. It has the pump in the tank, not external as I seen on some of the other builds.
Got the lines up to the engine and the vent to the charcoal canister, just need to put the fuel sender in, will do that tomorrow and see about connecting the charcoal purge to the engine.

84343

84344

84345

[Arrowhead]

I bought the FFR EFI fuel system. It has the pump in the tank, not external as I seen on some of the other builds.

Well that's something new. And people say FFR doesn't update their kits.

[JimLev]

Well the tank still is a POS.
I installed the level sensor this morning, will need to check the tank for leaks soon.
Looking into the tank there is a pan that the fuel pump sock sits in. The sides of the pan look to be about 1.5" above the bottom of the tank.
I could be wrong (hope I am) but unless there are a few holes on the sides of the pan you'll need to have 3-4 gallons of fuel in the tank to get the pan filled up. Also you could run out of gas in the pan while there is still a few gallons in the tank.
I wish I had taken pic of the pan before I gooped up the O-ring with sealant before putting the pump in the tank.
Can one of you look into your FFR tank to see if the pan has any holes in its sides?

[duff33]

My tank is sealed up, but yes you have to have a couple of gallons in the tank before anything gets picked up.I did have to releave the side of one of the truck hinge arms so that it did not rub on the side of the tank

[TxMike64]

...I bought the FFR EFI fuel system. It has the pump in the tank, not external as I seen on some of the other builds.

84343

I've wondered what the "FFR EFI Fuel System" included. I do like that it's an in-tank pump, as the pump will run cooler, longer, and much quieter.

84357

But $550 !?!? I wonder if that is an FFR specific cage (doubtful) and if it is universal or specific to some OEM application. I wish I could see the numbers on the side of that pump to know what the specs of that particular pump are.

[JimLev]

Mike, I remember seeing "Ford" marked on something. The box the fuel pump bracket assy came in said "Taiwan 80280 Factory 5" on it.
Your in luck, I wrote the pump info in the manual. Walbro GSS340, 28517-1. It's suppose to be a 255 LPH pump.

The EFI fuel system comes with the pump and bracket assy, regulator, gauge, nice braided hoses with connectors installed to connect from the regulator (AN6) to the fuel filter and reg to the (AN4) fuel return, charcoal canister, also from the regulator (AN6) to the fuel rail as well as hardware.

Funny thing is that FFR still sends parts for the fuel system that I don't need, pump bracket for the external pump, solid lines and fittings for the supply and return, etc.

I purchased a lot of options just before the end of last year when almost all of them were discounted 50%.

[TxMike64]

...Walbro CSS340 (GSS340 edit)... ...The EFI fuel system comes with the pump and bracket assy, regulator, gauge, nice braided hoses with connectors installed to connect from the regulator (AN6) to the fuel filter and reg to the (AN4) fuel return, charcoal canister, also from the regulator (AN6) to the fuel rail as well as hardware.

Well, for that pump, the cage, and all the components and hardware -- that's not a bad deal!


I purchased a lot of options just before the end of last year when almost all of them were discounted 50%.

And that makes it a GREAT deal!

[TxMike64]

...the FFR EFI fuel system
84343

Look's awfully familiar:
84383
That's a later Fox Body pump cage.

[JimLev]

Your attachment says it's invalid.
I'll dig out the other bracket (no pump) they sent me, maybe you can ID it too.

[TxMike64]

The image should come up now (had to edit to remove a URL).

[JimLev]

Yup, I can see it.
Here is the other bracket assy for the external fuel pump FFR sent me. Any idea what year Mustang(??) this is used for?

84384

[TxMike64]

Yeah, it's the same - like 91-93 Mustang.

For those running AN lines from tank to an external pump to rails/carb, LMR sells (I'm sure others do to) a pickup tube with AN connections.
Fuel-Pump-Pickup-For-Aftermarket-Fuel-System (https://lmr.com/item/GRN-GMTI7998/1986-97-Mustang-Fuel-Pump-Pickup-For-Aftermarket-Fuel-System)

It makes sense to me that FFR would use Mustang components - this is what the buisiness was built around: building Cobra Replicas using Fox Mustang donors. You could just buy a replacement pump and cage for like $80+/- to replace the pick-up/external pump setup that the FFR33 comes with. BUT like I said above, you're not getting a 255lph Walbro pump or ALL that other hardware! $275 is cheap for all that!

[JimLev]

Interesting that they sent all of the carb throttle cable parts as well as the gas pedal too, they knew I was getting the LS drive by wire setup and wouldn't need them. One would think they could keep those parts and save some $$$.

[Svtfreak]

So a 87-93 fox mustang fuel pickup unit fits into the FFR tank with ring and all?

That may open up my possibilities for when I redo my fuel system for the blower. Current setup that came with motor won’t be enough.

[JimLev]

Svt, yes the mounting ring is the same. The OAL is just shy of the height of the tank. It came with o-rings and plastic quick disconnect fittings.

[JimLev]

Got the Unisteer installed today, mounted to the engine side of the footbox aluminum.
I still need to firmly mount the 4 x 4 plate. No binding!
I'll need to add some aluminum insulation between the header and the Unisteer.

84433

84434

84435

84436

Plate angle is ~22°
84437

84438

84439

84440

[Svtfreak]

Thanks Jim! Will look into that when I change from the temp stuff I’m doing now to support the whipple.

[myjones]

Jim
Very tidy looking installation.
I turned the motor up on mine for a bit more clearance from the hot exhaust, just different strokes for different motor layout.
Now you can move the module inside with no issues from the short pigtail and keep it cooler as well.
I moved down and inboard jumping to just the other side of that tube shown by the pedal shot. The reason for that was the
joint angle down at that carrier bearing. By adding more angle at the firewall you relieved that a little but it still looks pretty
tight so you might want to look it over once more for clearance at all rotation angles. Well done.
Dale

[JimLev]

Dale,
It seems to be A-OK. Nice and smooth operation.
I finished mounting the plate without the hinge.
The firewall is threaded and all the nuts have Loctite on them.
Just need to Loctite all the set screws on the shafts tomorrow.

84851

84852

84853

I'm postponing the wiring until I get the exhaust done, then I can rivet the floor in and move on to the wiring.

[erlihemi]

Jim, Nice execution on the unisteer! Are you putting some kind of "cup" on the inside to seal the firewall? I can't do that as my clutch pedal will hit at the bottom of travel unless I move the pedal back.

[JimLev]

Thanks. Yes, I intend on enclosing that hole with something(?). Gotta keep the heat out.
Probably would be easier to do it from the 4 sides of the aluminum plate to the foot box than try to do it around the u-joint.

[JimLev]

Never got to the wiring yesterday, got a few packages from FedEx and decided to do the easy stuff.

The 4L65e tranny has quick disconnect fittings that I wanted to change to 6AN fittings. After ordering the wrong ones I found the correct ones from Jeg's, 6AN to -6 ORB (o-ring boss) p/n 110160.
The part that screws into the tranny is a 9/16-18 thread, they come with O-rings.
Other trannys use a different fitting, 6AN -1/4" NPSM or 6AN-1/4" pipe.
I made up the braided lines for the tranny to the radiator.

84975

84976

Also found some seat slides at 4WD.com

84978

[HVACMAN]

Never got to the wiring yesterday, got a few packages from FedEx and decided to do the easy stuff.

The 4L65e tranny has quick disconnect fittings that I wanted to change to 6AN fittings. After ordering the wrong ones I found the correct ones from Jeg's, 6AN to -6 ORB (o-ring boss) p/n 110160.
The part that screws into the tranny is a 9/16-18 thread, they come with O-rings.
Other trannys use a different fitting, 6AN -1/4" NPSM or 6AN-1/4" pipe.
I made up the braided lines for the tranny to the radiator.

84975

84976

Also found some seat slides at 4WD.com

84978

I wish I had known you were looking for the transmission AN fittings. I could have given you the part numbers. Apparently GM has used several different sizes and threads in recent years.

[JimLev]

Andy, next time I need info I'll look you up. They weren't that expensive at all.
I did find a hydraulic supply company in Denver that also had them for $2.50 each, however the shipping was $15.
Maybe worth stopping in there next time I'm in Denver an stocking up.

The Denver company is www.hydraulichoses.com

[wrp]

Unisteer install is awesome.

[JimLev]

Thanks wrp.

Haven't had much spare time in the last week to work on the car.
I started to do the exhaust which will require cutting and welding due to the BBK headers not aligning with the FFR pipes. I worked on that for a while and then decided to go back to the electrical.
I stripped off the corrugated covering which made running the cables much easier. I'll put some of it back on later. Also have a few rolls of automotive cloth tape that I'll use too.
Andy, I decided to move my FF fuse box to the left side like you did. Keep staying ahead of me so I can pick up some tips from your build.

85195

85196

85197

UPS came today with a very early b-day present.
I treated myself to another tool that I will probably only use on this car.
With 18 connections to crimp it will pay for itself.

85198

[AJT '33]

Thanks wrp.

Haven't had much spare time in the last week to work on the car.
I started to do the exhaust which will require cutting and welding due to the BBK headers not aligning with the FFR pipes. I worked on that for a while and then decided to go back to the electrical.



Hey Jim, take a good look at the BBK headers, after successfully getting our first start we soon discovered that the headers were leaking exhaust right inside at the plate of where they all connect together, I get a distinct hissing as well as blow out from in between. So if you have not yet installed your headers or their easily removable, inspect them and if possible plug the four pipes that go to your engine and use a shop vac in reverse to pressurize the exhaust end, you may find that they also leak. I will be contacting FFR to see what they want to do as there is NO WAY of correcting this.

[JimLev]

AJT, they are installed but are easily removable. Before I installed them I did visually check them out, they looked OK.
I like your "test" method.
I still have the GM ones that came on the LS3 as well as the Hooker's from FFR.
FFR sent you BBK headers? They sent me Hooker headers, I purchased the BBK myself.

[HVACMAN]

Thanks wrp.

Haven't had much spare time in the last week to work on the car.
I started to do the exhaust which will require cutting and welding due to the BBK headers not aligning with the FFR pipes. I worked on that for a while and then decided to go back to the electrical.
I stripped off the corrugated covering which made running the cables much easier. I'll put some of it back on later. Also have a few rolls of automotive cloth tape that I'll use too.
Andy, I decided to move my FF fuse box to the left side like you did. Keep staying ahead of me so I can pick up some tips from your build.

85195

85196

85197

UPS came today with a very early b-day present.
I treated myself to another tool that I will probably only use on this car.
With 18 connections to crimp it will pay for itself.

85198

I also purchased the crimper from Amazon. I have used it on my heater hoses so far. It works great and is cheaper than paying some one to do all those crimps.

[TDSapp]

I guess I got lucky... I got an AC unit from Classic Auto Air and they are local to me. I stopped in to talk to them and they told me that they will crimp my hoses for me for free.

[HVACMAN]

I guess I got lucky... I got an AC unit from Classic Auto Air and they are local to me. I stopped in to talk to them and they told me that they will crimp my hoses for me for free.

You are lucky Tim. I got mine from the same place but, being from a small town over 5 hours from Dallas has it's drawbacks. The locals wanted $10- $15 a crimp. I'll put it up for sale when I'm through.

[JimLev]

Free is good. Found mine on eBay. Will probably sell it too when I'm done with it.

Andy, I followed some of your info again today.
I've been complaining about stuffing 10 lbs of wire into a 5 lb space. Today I seceded.
I stripped off the plastic corrugated tubing off the GM fuse box cable and the cable to the ECU.
I then used automotive cloth tape to bind both together resulting in a bundle much smaller to work with.
This is both cables bundled together.
85289

85290

85291

85292

85293

85294

I still have room for the PS controller and the tranny controller.

[TDSapp]

85293



Jim,

I like how you have your fuse box mounted. But can you get to all the fuses to change them when the body is on?

[HVACMAN]

Free is good. Found mine on eBay. Will probably sell it too when I'm done with it.

Andy, I followed some of your info again today.
I've been complaining about stuffing 10 lbs of wire into a 5 lb space. Today I seceded.
I stripped off the plastic corrugated tubing off the GM fuse box cable and the cable to the ECU.
I then used automotive cloth tape to bind both together resulting in a bundle much smaller to work with.
This is both cables bundled together.
85289

85290

85291

85292

85293

85294

I still have room for the PS controller and the tranny controller.

Nice Job!! Re-configuring the harness is an excellent idea, since the fuse box was intended to be mounted in the engine bay, now you can configure it however you want. I may use some of those ideas, if you don't mind. I was looking last night with frustration, as I have run out of room. This weekend I will start by moving the a/c 2 inches to the right. Similar to yours but a different brand. I may also re-think my ECM and fuse box mounting. I haven't done much to the car, except stare at it and roll different ideas around in my head (it's a very large empty space). I even took the day off last Saturday and went fishing. I did order a relay to briefly power the purge solenoid on startup. I will let you know how it works out.

[JimLev]

Jim,

I like how you have your fuse box mounted. But can you get to all the fuses to change them when the body is on?

I think so. The one bolt that holds the box to the frame should be reachable. Weird that the box only has one tab for mounting.
Behind the box I have a 2" wide 4" long piece of Velcro holding the upper part of the box to the frame.
Should be able to remove the box and pull it off the Velcro.

[JimLev]

Andy, yes frustration. Every night when I go to bed I lay awake thinking how am I going to fix this or that, make things fit, etc.
The cloth tape I used is this...
https://www.amazon.com/Tesa-Wire-Loom-Harness-Mercedes/dp/B00EH6IZ6Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525301811&sr=8-2&keywords=automotive+cloth+tape

Mounted the Electro Steer (the motor cables reach to box) and the tranny controller today.
Will probably remove the corrugated tubing on the tranny cables and tape them too.
That will be all I do for the next week. We're flying to MA tomorrow. Going to my old stomping grounds, Wareham. Will visit Tony and the gang on Monday.

85346

[WIS89]

Jim-

I like the crimping tool you picked up. Any chance you would mind sharing the link? Thanks in advance!

Regards,

Steve

[JimLev]

Steve, I found it on eBay. It was the least expensive place I could find.
Here ya go.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mastercool-71550-A-C-Hose-Crimper-Tool-Kit/132441892187?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[HVACMAN]

Andy, yes frustration. Every night when I go to bed I lay awake thinking how am I going to fix this or that, make things fit, etc.
The cloth tape I used is this...
https://www.amazon.com/Tesa-Wire-Loom-Harness-Mercedes/dp/B00EH6IZ6Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525301811&sr=8-2&keywords=automotive+cloth+tape

Mounted the Electro Steer (the motor cables reach to box) and the tranny controller today.
Will probably remove the corrugated tubing on the tranny cables and tape them too.
That will be all I do for the next week. We're flying to MA tomorrow. Going to my old stomping grounds, Wareham. Will visit Tony and the gang on Monday.

85346

Thanks for the link on the tape. I just ordered some. Be careful and enjoy your trip.

[JimLev]

Thanks. I'm hoping I can convince Tony to swap my old style fuel tank for the new design.
Both trunk hinge arms hit the sides of the tank. Dave said to move the arms to the outside of the pivot points. The pass side will be ok, but on the drivers side the arm will hit the rubber fuel filler hose.

[JimLev]

New fuel tank is in, glad I had an angle grinder and TIG to make it fit. The top mounting tabs were welded on too high so the tank wouldn't fit under the top boxed steel.
If you get a new tank you'll need the new level sensor which has the supply and return lines.
You will also need an external fuel pump.

85749

[JimLev]

The new tank and external fuel pump are installed. Today I used my vacuum pump to check for any leaks, it's all good.
Now to get back on the exhaust, ugh.

[WIS89]

Steve, I found it on eBay. It was the least expensive place I could find.
Here ya go.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mastercool-71550-A-C-Hose-Crimper-Tool-Kit/132441892187?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Thanks Jim! I am pleased to hear that it worked so well for you! I may have to add it to my tool box.

Thank you again for the link.

Regards,

Steve

[JimLev]

Still working on the exhaust, ugh.
FedEx was here today and coming again tomorrow.
The wheels (spokes) just clear the calipers by 4-5mm.
The fronts have over an inch from the caliper to the barrel.
The rears have maybe 7mm from the caliper to the barrel.

86206

86207

86208

86209

86210

86211

86212

[wrp]

Those wheels are awesome

[HVACMAN]

Still working on the exhaust, ugh.
FedEx was here today and coming again tomorrow.
The wheels (spokes) just clear the calipers by 4-5mm.
The fronts have over an inch from the caliper to the barrel.
The rears have maybe 7mm from the caliper to the barrel.

86206

86207

86208

86209

86210

86211

86212

What brakes are you running Jim?

[JimLev]

HVACMAN, I bought the FFr stock Ford brakes, dual pistons in the front and a single piston in the rear.
These guys.

86262

FedEx never showed up today with my tires even though tracking said it was on the truck at 7AM for delivery.

[JimLev]

FedEx finally brought the tires on Sat a little after 4PM so getting them mounted on the wheels wasn't going to happen until today.
The rears are 295/35/18's, wheel and tire weigh 55 lbs, glad I didn't go with 19".
The fronts are 235/45/17's, 42 lbs.
86439

86440

86441

Finally got most of the exhaust installed and insulated, still need to insulate above the mufflers with that DEI gold stuff.
Haven't connected the muffler inlet pipe to the collector yet, that will be my next task.

86442

[HVACMAN]

That tire and wheel combo looks amazing Jim.

[JimLev]

Thanks Andy.

Finally fabricated the pipes I needed to connect the headers to the muffler inlet pipes.
Turns out the J pipe that FFR sends if you are going to use the side exhaust worked out fine.
Just had to make the correct angle cuts, then do some grinding on the flange that bolts to the headers.
At this point everything is just tacked on, still need to weld the flanges on both ends of the pipe and weld the O2 bung.
86852

I insulated the under side of the floor directly above the mufflers with the DEI gold foil.
I'll do the top side with the FFR insulation after I rivet the floors in.
86853

[JimLev]

Finally got the flanges welded and the complete exhaust system bolted in along with all the pipes wrapped with DEI insulation.
Also put more DEI on the bottom side of the floors.

87593

[JimLev]

Finished mounting the ebrake and moving it forward so the pass seat can slide.
Had to make a threaded extension for the adjuster under the floor, the thread is 1/4 x 28.

87870

87871

87872

87873

87874

I wanted to get the Lokar shifter mounted to the top of the tranny today but as usual one thing led to another.
I bought sliders for the seats, so to determine where the shifter should go so I could reach it I needed to mount the seats.
Only got the pass side done. I raised the seat up 3.5", bolted directly to the floor was way too low for me.
The seat can be moved 5" now.
I wanted to use unistrut, not available at HD or Tractor Supply, I settled on slotted angle iron. A little more work but it came out fine.

87866

87867

87868

87869

[JimLev]

Got the drivers seat mounted and an approximate location to mount the Lokar shifter on top of the tranny.
I'll need to make a bracket for it to mount to, either connected to the frame or to the back of the tranny using the top 2 bolts that connect the tail shaft to the tranny body.

87959

[JimLev]

The Lokar shifter is in (4L65e tranny), still need to make a rear support for it. The shifter is mounted to a bracket that I bolted to the back of the tranny.
I used a 3/8" threaded rod on the pass side, couldn't do that on the DS because of the linkage arm.
More info in the pics.

88194

88195

88196

88197

88198

88199

88200

[Lancaster Lad]

JimLev
Just reread your build log and missed the first time where you removed the tubing from the ECU and re taped
the wires. That might help my situation for space to put the wires.
The question for today is about the Lokar Sport Shifter. I noticed the shift ball only has D (drive) no 3rd 2nd
or 1st. Can the lever move to lower gears without going to manual mode. The reason I ask is sometimes I
downshift to third gear on an offramp to help the brakes, same as in a manual trans. I would like to do this
without switching to manual mode.
Thank you for your time. Even though I am building a Roadster I follow your's and HVACMAN build for ideas
since I have a ls3 with auto trans also.

[JimLev]

L Lad, yes it can, just push the shifter over to the right and then you can bump it backwards or forward to manually change gears. This is all done thru the tranny ECU not the cable that puts it into P, R, N, D.
The tranny controller has an input from a brake pedal switch to unlock the torque converter.

[Lancaster Lad]

JimLev Thanks for the information. Now I need to decide to spend another $300 + . As has been said before
'what budget?'. I like your mount to the trans but my elbow would need to bend backward to work for me,
9 1/4" driveshaft instead of 31+".
Thank you for giving me some ideas to think about.

[JimLev]

L Lad, as someone here has said before, "we're helpful at spending other people's money".

[JimLev]

Spent most of the day drilling the grill, condenser brackets, the radiator, and fan shroud to get it all put together and installed.
Can't believe it took this long. Now I have no adjustment due to the fan shroud. It hits the shock bolts at the top and the frame at the bottom.
Shorter bolts for the top of the shocks would help a little.

88760

88761

88762

88763

88764

At least it's now sitting on the floor and off the jack stands.
It's LOW!

88765

[JimLev]

Forgot to add the Unisteer works great. One hand on the wheel is all it takes to turn it when your not moving.
Without the Unisteer powered you need both hands.

[TDSapp]

88763



Jim,

Just wondering here, but with the way the fan looks, is there a way that you could move the fan to the inside of the shroud? It looks like there is a flat surface that might let it sit flush on the inside and then give you more on the outside.

[CVOBill]

Jim, I had the same problem with the upper shock bolts. I used shorter bolts and thin Ny-lock nuts and have plenty of room now.

[TxMike64]

Spent most of the day drilling the grill, condenser brackets, the radiator, and fan shroud to get it all put together and installed.
Can't believe it took this long. Now I have no adjustment due to the fan shroud. It hits the shock bolts at the top and the frame at the bottom.
Shorter bolts for the top of the shocks would help a little.

Is that the Mike Everson fan shroud?

[JimLev]

Jim,

Just wondering here, but with the way the fan looks, is there a way that you could move the fan to the inside of the shroud? It looks like there is a flat surface that might let it sit flush on the inside and then give you more on the outside.

Tim, the fan looks to be just a little too big to fit inside the shroud. Good idea though.

[JimLev]

Jim, I had the same problem with the upper shock bolts. I used shorter bolts and thin Ny-lock nuts and have plenty of room now.

Bill, I'm going to get shorter bolts. Where did you get the thin Ny-lock nuts from?
I may also cut a few of the plastic ribs off for a little more room when the suspension is unloaded.
Now that it's sitting on the grounds I have about 1/2" of clearance. The above pic was with the wheels hanging.

Update,
I found the thin my-lock nuts on Amazon

[JimLev]

Is that the Mike Everson fan shroud?
Yes, it from Mike. It's a nice shroud and fits perfect.

[RoadRacer]

I noticed that the springs arent tie-wrapped to top spring cap? I can't remember if that was in manual or a tip..

[JimLev]

I noticed that the springs arent tie-wrapped to top spring cap? I can't remember if that was in manual or a tip..

I don't remember seeing that in the manual, will check again.
There are C clips that hold them in place.
Is there some concern that the springs and caps could come dislodged?

update....
It does say that in the manual.
Are the tie wraps meant to be left in permanetly or just when the shocks/springs are being assembled?

[RoadRacer]

pg 39 in my manual "Run zip ties through the holes in the spring hat and around the spring to prevent the spring from becoming unseated."

I assumed they meant while under zero load ( i.e. jacked up or over bumps) the spring may go sideways and not be seated correctly? I put two per spring..

88928

[wrp]

I missed this too. Have to go back and check

[HVACMAN]

I missed it too but I'm running QA1's. Zip ties seem like pretty inefficient way of accomplishing this. They don't hold up well in the elements.

[JimLev]

I was thinking the same thing about zip ties. I have some stainless welding wire that I'll use. Thanks for the heads up RoadRacer.
I did get the shorter bolts and thin nylock nuts done today.

Question about the Koni 82-2610 shocks from FFR.
They say adjustable...how? Koni sent me some instructions for the 82 series but it doesn't match these shocks.

[TxMike64]

I was thinking the same thing about zip ties. I have some stainless welding wire that I'll use...

Most stainless steel welding wire is 316 which will work-harden, so on something that moves or flexes often it will just get hard a break. Use safety wire - it's 303 or 304 stainless which is less prone to work-hardening.

If you use a good UV-resistant zip tie, you probably have nothing to worry about. There are several things I would use safety wire on, but in many cases I would use zip ties.

[JimLev]

Mike, I was going to use 0.035 ER309 wire which is mostly nickel and chrome, IIRC.
There shouldn't be much if any flexing between the cap and the top coil.
What do you think, go get some safety wire?

[TxMike64]

You're probably right about any flexing in this case... so 309 would probably be fine. The high nickel keeps it fairly ductile.

[duff33]

Glad you guys brought it up, totally missed that

[Dcc2]

The diff is in. I ground down the edges of the bushings to adjust the spacing to match the front diff holes.
Took all of 30 min to do everything. I spent pretty much the whole day trying to get that diff to bolt in.

I had the same issue. I tried ratchet nylon tiedown straps and torqued it close then nudges it on over with a bottle jack.

[Dcc2]

Billet Specialties top mount, fit fine

[JimLev]

Moving on....got a lot of the wiring done in the last few days, still have some left to do.
The starter had just too many wires going to it and it was too close to the exhaust header for me.
I bought a 4 lug terminal strip to connect all the wires that should go to the solenoid and then ran one wire from the terminal strip to the solenoid.
I then used some left over heat shield to put between the starter and the exhaust.

89392

The Platinum gauges come with adapter fittings from FFR, they don't fit the LS engine. Other adapters are required and a shorter water temp sensor is required if you want to install the temp sensor in the back side of the pass head.
I decided to just drill and tap the water pump outlet and use the sensor that came with the gauge FFR supplied.

89393

The oil pressure sensor would also require an adaptor. I just drilled and tapped the block-off plate where an external oil cooler would attach. I had all the fittings, didn't need to buy anything.
Will add a heat shield here too after I have the wiring done.

89394

[HVACMAN]

This is why I plan to use the Can-Bus gauges from Speedhut. They plug directly into the OBDII connector. No additional sending units and you eliminate that portion of the RF harness except the fuel level sender. Also the speedometer has a check engine light, can display trouble codes, and delete them.

[JimLev]

That sounds like a nice way to do it. However when I ordered my car I didn't know about the Can-Bus gauges. Now that I have looked into them I probably wouldn't have ordered them due to the additional $700+ cost. I bought a lot of options when I ordered the car including the LS3 and tranny from GM. I'm already over 2x what the 2 stage kit cost and not done spending. The UPS guy and I are buddy's now, he's here a few times a week, he's a car guy too.

[HVACMAN]

That sounds like a nice way to do it. However when I ordered my car I didn't know about the Can-Bus gauges. Now that I have looked into them I probably wouldn't have ordered them due to the additional $700+ cost. I bought a lot of options when I ordered the car including the LS3 and tranny from GM. I'm already over 2x what the 2 stage kit cost and not done spending. The UPS guy and I are buddy's now, he's here a few times a week, he's a car guy too.

I know what you mean about the spending. I am afraid to run a total on what I've spent so far. I took the $350 gauge delete credit, so that paid for half but I'm still over 38K just for the kit and running gear and I haven't bought wheels and tires. I'm not sure if anyone has said it but, fun ain't cheap. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I have wanted to build a car from the ground up since I was a teenager.

[JimLev]

Same here Andy. I have a mental total in my head, just not waiting for my wife to ask what I'm up to. It's around $45k with the new LS3, tranny, wheels, and tires.
I've done a lot of wiring (AC and heater wired and tested) and just finished the AC lines. Did a vacuum checked of the system for leaks, it's good.
Now I can finish the cooling system lines.

The Mastercool crimper is fantastic, so easy to use.

90879

90880

90881

90882

[HVACMAN]

Same here Andy. I have a mental total in my head, just not waiting for my wife to ask what I'm up to. It's around $45k with the new LS3, tranny, wheels, and tires.
I've done a lot of wiring (AC and heater wired and tested) and just finished the AC lines. Did a vacuum checked of the system for leaks, it's good.
Now I can finish the cooling system lines.

The Mastercool crimper is fantastic, so easy to use.

90879

90880

90881

90882

Ditto on the Master Cool crimper. It worked so well I did the heater hoses too.

[JimLev]

Today I filled and bled the brakes, used my pressure bleeder with a vacuum bleeder on the calipers.
Next I wired up the trinary switch to the compressor clutch and the radiator fan. Had to use an additional relay (not supplied) for the AC over pressure circuit to route power to the fan.

[JimLev]

Got the radiator connected to the LS3 engine.
Had to use a swivel connection for the t-stat housing as the LS3 housing points the wrong way.
All of the connections are different sizes which makes it a pain, 3 trips to the parts store to find hoses to use.
In the end I did find a top hose that has the correct dimensions.

91314

91315

The bottom hose had to be pieced together using a real hose, the corrugated FFR supplied stainless using their reducers and coupling.
I needed to use 2 clamps on each side of the coupling to keep them from blowing off/leaking.
The radiator cap is rated at 16PSI. I pressurized the system to 15 PSI for over an hour, no leaks.
I tied the same thing earlier with only one clamp on the FFR coupling, it blew off the t-stat housing.
Got the steam line plumbed as well as the tranny cooling lines to the radiator connected.

91316

91317

[lindquist]

The diff is in. I ground down the edges of the bushings to adjust the spacing to match the front diff holes.
Took all of 30 min to do everything. I spent pretty much the whole day trying to get that diff to bolt in.

I stretched the front diff holes. Put in rear diff bolts. Support diff to align holes. Install urethane and steel sleeves for front mounts. Greased the sides of a 5/8 drill and used the steel sleeve as a drill guide and a HD right angle drill to stretch the holes in the diff. You want to have diff within 1 degree of parallel to crankshaft. I flipped the FF LS motor mount plates over to raise motor slightly. I made a 3/4" thick adapter to use the FF trans mount my 4L70E LS376 to get motor/diff angles within 1 degree.

[JimLev]

Its alive, the engine and exhaust sound fantastic.
One problem, it doesn't move in D or R.
Tranny (4L65e) and torque converter are full of fluid.
Seems like a torque converter problem.

92733

[HVACMAN]

Its alive, the engine and exhaust sound fantastic.
One problem, it doesn't move in D or R.
Tranny (4L65e) and torque converter are full of fluid.
Seems like a torque converter problem.

92733

Congratulations on the first start. I hate to hear about the lack of movement. Did you pre-fill the converter? Please post the solution.

[JimLev]

Yes, I put fluid into the converter as per the directions before I put it on the tranny.
The level on the dipstick was indicating full before I started the engine, then dropped as expected when the engine was started.
I then added 4 qts. Which brought the level back to full.
Can't work on it today, have to put Tundra big brake kit on our sons 4Runner.
I did use a higher stall speed converter (per Tony's recommendation) than the one that was specified in the GM Connect and Cruise kit. Don't think that had to do with it not moving.
Will post what the problem was when I figure it out.

Andy, do you have your engine running yet?

[TDSapp]

Its alive, the engine and exhaust sound fantastic.
One problem, it doesn't move in D or R.
Tranny (4L65e) and torque converter are full of fluid.
Seems like a torque converter problem.



Two things....

1. It did not really start until you post a video and we can hear it.

2. I had an issue like this once. Was told to start the engine, then shift into 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, then drive, then reverse. Then back into park and repeat it a couple more times. Then check fluid level again. It was something about putting it directly into the lower gears forcing the fluid into places that drive might not get. Your mileage may be different but it worked for me.

[TxMike64]

Two things....

1. It did not really start until you post a video and we can hear it.

2. I had an issue like this once. Was told to start the engine, then shift into 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, then drive, then reverse. Then back into park and repeat it a couple more times. Then check fluid level again. It was something about putting it directly into the lower gears forcing the fluid into places that drive might not get. Your mileage may be different but it worked for me.

#1 Agreed.

#2 I've had this solution work for me on another occasion - forces fluid into all the valves/passages.

[HVACMAN]

Yes, I put fluid into the converter as per the directions before I put it on the tranny.
The level on the dipstick was indicating full before I started the engine, then dropped as expected when the engine was started.
I then added 4 qts. Which brought the level back to full.
Can't work on it today, have to put Tundra big brake kit on our sons 4Runner.
I did use a higher stall speed converter (per Tony's recommendation) than the one that was specified in the GM Connect and Cruise kit. Don't think that had to do with it not moving.
Will post what the problem was when I figure it out.

Andy, do you have your engine running yet?

Not yet Jim. I am expecting Stage 2 next week and my gauges should be here in 4 weeks. It will be a little while.

[JimLev]

Tim, TXMike, yes I know it didn't "really" start. I'll get it posted soon.
Thanks for the tranny info, I'll give that a try and report back.

[JimLev]

OK, I'll call it the first, second, third... start, but it's really about the 10th start.
Think I spent way too much time trying to figure out how to use the new video editor.

3rd try at posting video
https://youtu.be/B2JbPqJaP98


https://youtu.be/B2JbPqJaP98

[JimLev]

#1 Agreed.

#2 I've had this solution work for me on another occasion - forces fluid into all the valves/passages.

Tried the shifting method, no dice. Will try it again tomorrow for a longer time in the different gears.
I played around with the tranny software to get familiar with it.

92973

92974

[60's Kid]

Jim--Did you use a pressurized system to prime the oil on the LS3 before start? I am worried about getting oil pressure up on first start.
Just want to make sure I do it right. Paperwork that I got with motor does not talk about using pressurized system.

Rick

[JimLev]

Rick, yes I did prime the oil system. I connected an old electric 12 volt pump to the oil drain plug on the oil pan and the other end to the oil port on the drivers side of the block. I let it run for 5+ min to circulate the oil from the pan thru the oil galleys.
After that I removed the plugs to spray a little fogging oil in the cylinders, then turned the engine over with the plugs out.

Where did you get your LS3 from? Mine came from GM Connect and Cruise which included all kinds of info including pressurizing the oil circuit using a pricey pump. Need a copy?

[GoDadGo]

Jim,

Looks Like You'll Be Kicking Asphalt Rather Soon!
Looking Good, Really Good!

Steve

[60's Kid]

Jim, The LS3 came from Pace Performance in Ohio. I bought the 33 from DCC2 in north Texas a couple weeks ago so I am trying to get into it and figure out where to go next. Drew (previous owner) has been very helpful and I have a lot of paperwork from him, but nothing on priming. Yes I would like to see the info you have on pressurizing the system. I will pm you my email. He also had a lot of the wiring done so picking up in the middle of that is a little confusing (not my strong suit anyway). How you don't mind if I pic your brain a little as time goes on.
Thanks
Rick

[JimLev]

No problem picking my brains. If I don't know the answer someone else here will.
I emailed you a few things last night.

[JimLev]

Jim,

Looks Like You'll Be Kicking Asphalt Rather Soon!
Looking Good, Really Good!

Steve

It's going to take a few more days before I rip up some pavement.
I figured out why it won't move. Time to fess up to a bone head mistake, hopefully this will help someone prevent the same mistake.
When I was sliding the torque converter onto the tranny everything went fine.
When I was struggling to lift the tranny w/tc and mount it on the back of the engine the tc slid forward just a little.
Thru the starter hole I pushed it back before I bolted it to the flex plate, however the notches in the tc that drive the pump weren't aligned with the front pump impeller tabs, which broke them off.
No pump, no go.
I pulled the tranny and have it apart waiting for the parts to arrive.

Pull the pan off and remove 2 solenoids.
93591

Pulling the front pump assy out of the tranny.
93592

Didn't need to take the drum and other parts out.
93593

Pump assy
93594

Pump assy apart
93595

The black part of the impeller and the white ring broke.
93596

[HVACMAN]

It's going to take a few more days before I rip up some pavement.
I figured out why it won't move. Time to fess up to a bone head mistake, hopefully this will help someone prevent the same mistake.
When I was sliding the torque converter onto the tranny everything went fine.
When I was struggling to lift the tranny w/tc and mount it on the back of the engine the tc slid forward just a little.
Thru the starter hole I pushed it back before I bolted it to the flex plate, however the notches in the tc that drive the pump weren't aligned with the front pump impeller tabs, which broke them off.
No pump, no go.
I pulled the tranny and have it apart waiting for the parts to arrive.

Pull the pan off and remove 2 solenoids.
93591

Pulling the front pump assy out of the tranny.
93592

Didn't need to take the drum and other parts out.
93593

Pump assy
93594

Pump assy apart
93595

The black part of the impeller and the white ring broke.
93596

WOW!!! I hate to hear that Jim. You've got me replaying my install over in my head. I don't think I made any boo boo's but now I'm not sure.

[wrp]

Just a question for my own edification. When putting the TH400 in my GTO there was a specific process involving the spacing of the convertor from the flex plate, About 1/8 an inch or 0.125 inch. This was a critical measurement because the convertor would swell with pressure and if you did not space it then it would press backwards on the input shaft and damage/destroy the front pump. I had found that many of my friends having pump problems had not spaced the converters. When your converter came forward I wonder if the vanes did not mesh going back and when you tightened it down that might have damaged the pump? Ask me how I learned all this :)

[JimLev]

Yes, same for the LS3 and 4L65E, spec is 0.125 to 0.250". This is the space between the flex plate and the front mounting (bolt) pads on the converter with converter pushed all the way into the tranny. When you bolt the converter to the flex plate the converter gets pulled forward.
Mine measured 0.157 so I thought everything was OK, this was with the tabs broken. I'm now positive the 2 cutouts on the converter weren't aligned with the 2 tabs on the ID of the impeller. I'll make sure it's correct this time, don't want to repeat the process again.
Not looking forward to putting the tranny back in the car with the engine already in it. It was a PITA getting it out from the top side.
Can the converter swell from pressure, or is it just expanding for the heat?

[NAZ]

Yes, converters will experience some thermal expansion -- most of the heat generated in an auto trans comes from the torque converter. They can expand (balloon) under pressure, sometimes enough that it damages the converter and there is probably some video of this on YouTube (everything is on YouTube). They can also put a great deal of force on the engine thrust bearing from the oil pressure trying to force the converter away from the trans and toward the engine.

[JimLev]

Good info wrp and NAZ.
Other interesting things...
My Connect and Cruise package came with the flex plate mounted to the crank and a set of (too long) bolts for the converter.
The tranny came with a flex plate too (same p/n) and another set of bolts for the flex plate to converter that were shorter.
The short ones were the correct ones to use, the longer bolts would bottom out before they pulled the converter up to the flex plate.

Tony also talked about using a higher stall speed converter, which I did buy.
The stock (4L65E) converter is 2400-2800 RPM, the one I bought (4L70) is 3000-3400. The higher speed is suppose to help braking.
After getting all the wiring connected I see there is a wire to hook to the brake light switch to send 12 volts to the tranny ECM to unlock the converter when you brake......so maybe a higher stall speed converter really isn't needed?
NAZ, you probably know more about this than most of us.
This was my first build using an automatic tranny.

[erlihemi]

Yes, same for the LS3 and 4L65E, spec is 0.125 to 0.250". This is the space between the flex plate and the front mounting (bolt) pads on the converter with converter pushed all the way into the tranny. When you bolt the converter to the flex plate the converter gets pulled forward.
Mine measured 0.157 so I thought everything was OK, this was with the tabs broken. I'm now positive the 2 cutouts on the converter weren't aligned with the 2 tabs on the ID of the impeller. I'll make sure it's correct this time, don't want to repeat the process again.
Not looking forward to putting the tranny back in the car with the engine already in it. It was a PITA getting it out from the top side.
Can the converter swell from pressure, or is it just expanding for the heat?

I learned this lesson on a well built tranny with a brake and 3800 rpm stall converter. I had made a number of runs over a few weekends getting the chassis dialed in and finally was getting power to the ground. I launched the car hard and when I caught second the engine jumped to 7500 and I coasted as a rider not a driver. After checking all the other possibilities I had to pull the tranny and replace the front pump. I had left plenty of room typical for the average converter and flywheel, but I was making well over 600hp and launching on full stall. Sheered those front tangs axially (vice radially) due to ballooning of the converter. I ended up "relieving" the converter slot 1/8" and never had that issue again.
I think pressure and temperature were working together on that one.

[JimLev]

Thanks for the tip. I'll cut the slots a little deeper on mine tomorrow.

[erlihemi]

I used an expansion plug on a cable to seal the converter from contamination. Leave the plug in until everything is clean again and then loosen it just enough to pull it out clean. Do not depend on stuffing rags in the converter!! Do not create a sharp corner or stress riser in the slot. Not saying you really need to do this. Theoretically you should have enough room for expansion as is. I was doing this with a 3400lb car that would carry the front through the 60 foot timer and launching at full throttle. I'm not sure anyone has achieved that with the Hot Rod chassis. Maybe NAZ will accomplish it?? I was using a 904 converter with a 727 pump and other hybrid parts to squeeze one more tenth out of the car. I also was launching off one of the stickiest tracks in the late 90's. Dinwiddie Va. was getting consistent 325mph runs in a real quarter mile in those days. The first 600 feet was concrete. I pulled a 13 second run coasting the day I wasted the tranny pump.

[NAZ]

JimLev, I think that wire you're talking about unlocks the integral clutch when the brakes are applied so that the "lock-up" converter reverts back to a conventional converter when coasting to a stop. I suspect you'll still need that 3000 stall converter or a heavy brake pedal effort at traffic signals.

BTW, I find it much easier to pull the engine & trans as a unit (had mine in and out so many times I lost count). I used Weatherpak connectors for the headlights to make pulling the grill / radiator ***'y easier. A new clean drain pan and new clean 5-gal gas can to collect the coolant and it only takes one old man a few hours to pull the engine & trans. Not much longer going back in. I can't imagine the pain it would be to pull the trans only as even with the body off I still had a roll cage in the way.

[JimLev]

Erlihemi, thanks for the info about using an expansion plug (I have one), was going to stuff a rag down there.
I don't think I'll ever be doing a full throttle launch on a stock slush box, if it was a manual then maybe.

NAZ, not exactly sure what that wire controls. The info I have said "for smoother operation, it's suggested that the wire labeled brake light be run to the factory brake pedal switch (NC) so the TCC will unlock when you apply the brakes".

I'll be using the 4L70 converter that has a 3000-3400 stall speed.

I left the engine in because I don't have an engine crane, I borrowed one when I put the eng/tranny in. My friend wasn't home when I decided to pull it out.
The body wasn't on yet, just had to remove the seats, tunnel cover, etc.
I do have a tranny jack which I used to remove the tranny by pushing it up.
I'll try putting it in from under the chassis after I get it back together.

[myjones]

Tony also talked about using a higher stall speed converter, which I did buy.
The stock (4L65E) converter is 2400-2800 RPM, the one I bought (4L70) is 3000-3400. The higher speed is suppose to help braking.
send 12 volts to the tranny ECM to unlock the converter when you brake......so maybe a higher stall speed converter really isn't needed?

Go read up on the difference between flash, stall and lock-up and you will see when/why to (unlock) the convertor. When braking that
merely keeps the (engine) from stalling by allowing some slip in the convertor. Stall is the speed where slippage is lowest but still not completely
locked up. Flash is the point where the TC starts to overcome the normal idling slippage and move the vehicle forward, that is what makes
the car want to creep at a stop sign and requires more braking effort to sit still. When FF tells you to get a higher stall convertor it's because
that one will also have a higher (flash) speed which is really what you need to get a light car with minimal/no power brakes to sit still without a
LOT of pressure on the brake pedal.

NAZ

Back a brotha up here would ya?
Dale

[erlihemi]

I'll back you up Dale. Flash is what makes a heavy car seem sluggish until you "get on" the converter also. Most modern converters in a 4L65E should not have an issue with this. Releasing the lock up clutch , however, is extremely important. On a light car I would "fail" conservatively and release the lockup as early as possible on decreasing speeds. This is constrained by both programming and physical configuration of the OEM valve body. In the "early days" of lockups we would put a switch in series with the controller to entirely eliminate lockup when desired. This isn't always an option now. If you have ever sat at a light with the back tires scratching to go or stalled your car (embarrassing) braking hard ahead of a turn you can appreciate having the converter clutch disabled. The best thing to do is call the manufacturer of the desired torque converter and have the discussion with a tech rep.

[NAZ]

Like Dale said -- read up on flash and stall speed and how lockup converters work to get a better grounding in these amazing devices. I use Hughes Performance converters and these folks not only make a good product in their Arizona facility but are always helpful when you need some advice.

I'll also echo that the best advice is to talk to the converter manufacturer when selecting a torque converter. There is a lot of discussion on stall speed (and flash speed for that matter) that muddy the water when selecting a torque converter. The advertised stall speeds are to be taken with a grain of salt -- this is a relative number and is significantly influenced by stroke, compression ratio, cam profile, & vehicle weight to name a few variables. The absolute best way to get what will work best for you is to talk to the manufacturer and be ready to answer questions about your car, engine build, and proposed use. The manufacturer will help you select the best option for your needs.

[JimLev]

Thanks for all the info guys.
Erlihemi, I did grind about 0.075 out of the slot on the converter snout. I now have 0.250" of space for expansion.
The tranny is back in the car, still need to put the starter, driveshaft, shifter, etc back in.

I did some reading on converters 2 days ago. I did know what stall speed was but never heard of flash speed.
I did buy the converter with the GM Connect & Cruise so that's the one I'll be using.
Hope to have everything back together tomorrow and go carting this weekend.

[JimLev]

The tranny is back together and in the car. This was the first time I ever opened up a slushbox, I was somewhat concerned if I had fixed it and put all the parts back in correctly.
They are a bit more complicated than a manual. If I ever blow this one I think I could now do a complete rebuild.
So onto the video....maybe. Don't know why it isn't showing up.
Here's the link. https://youtu.be/X1TeYK9dvQU


https://youtu.be/X1TeYK9dvQU

[NAZ]

Good job.

Looks like it works in forward and reverse and you got video to prove it. But what I want to know is how you can refrain from foot braking that thing and smoking the tires. I can't help myself even when no one is looking and if someone had a video camera, well thats like mandatory.

[JimLev]

LOL, yes those tires seem to have a mind of their own.
I don't think they are going to last very long.

The converter selection seems to be A OK. When the engine is at a hot idle I don't need to have my foot on the brake to hold it back.
Glad I bought the electric steering option.
The 33 doesn't have a small turning radius.

[JOP33]

Sounds great! Love the wheels & tires.

[60's Kid]

Did you try the calibration mode on the speedometer to see if it was working properly?

[JimLev]

Did you try the calibration mode on the speedometer to see if it was working properly?

No I didn't, but the speedo does work, just not accurate.
To cal it you need to drive a few miles at a constant speed (I think) so with no plate or registration I'm not going to take a chance at getting a ticket.

[CVOBill]

Jim, congrats on the first drive. Looks and sounds great.

[HVACMAN]

Congratulations Jim. Both on the repair and the gocart. The car sounds great.

[JimLev]

Thanks guys. It was a hectic 6 months to get it to the gocart stage.
Bill, your external fuel pump is working A+.

I've got some concerns about the manual brakes and the Lokar shifter.
No matter how hard I jump on the brake pedal I can't lock them up. Different pads maybe?

The Lokar doesn't shift easy from D to N, mainly because of the angle the tranny arm (if that's what you call it) is at in D.
It's sort of at 6 o'clock in P and at 3:30 o'clock in D, which makes it sort of hard to get it back to N.
I'd like the tranny arm to operate from the 8 to 5 o'clock position.
I'll be looking into changing the angle it's mounted at on the tranny shift rod. Will post what I come up with.

Took some neighbor's for a ride today, they all liked it which is good as our HOA has too many Prius owners.

[JOP33]

I've got some concerns about the manual brakes and the Lokar shifter.
No matter how hard I jump on the brake pedal I can't lock them up. Different pads maybe?



Jim - Have you Bed the brakes yet? I have not go-carted yet, but everything I have read and heard is that this is an important process for them to respond properly...my $0.02.

[JimLev]

Not yet, only have driven it 2 miles up and down my street and a dead end street off mine.
Being so light I would have expected much better stopping power, heck I was only going 30.

[NAZ]

Bed the brakes before making any decisions on changes to the braking system.

[HVACMAN]

Bed the brakes before making any decisions on changes to the braking system.

What brakes are you using front and rear?

[JimLev]

The standard Ford calipers and rotors that came with the kit. Think the pads were StopTech.
There's a pic of the calipers in post 141.
I'm on my way to NC so this is from memory.
When I get a chance I'll bed the brakes.

[HVACMAN]

Jim, I was looking at one of your older posts and you have your master cylinders labeled front and rear. You have the front on the outboard side of the pedal box and the rear on the inboard. Is this correct? If so I need to swap mine. I would think this would affect the bias adjustment.

[JimLev]

I don't think the physical position of the master cylinders matters as long as they are plumbed to the correct position and the bore size is correct.
I think the bias can be adjusted either way. Let me know if I'm wrong.

[JimLev]

After too much traveling I finally got back into the garage. One trip was back to Wareham for a high school reunion which meant a stop at FFR was mandatory. Bought a few small things for the car.
I now have all of the interior insulation on the floors and back panel.
Next was to move the battery, as it's recommended location would be a PITA to get at when it needed to be changed.
I boxed in a location below the upper trunk floor with a hinged lexan cover so it is easily accessible. Will add the sides of the box after I use a neighbors brake to make the bends (he's building a 36 Ford w/an LS engine).

96323

96324

Hope to finish up the sheet metal for the trunk tomorrow and then run stereo and alarm wires this weekend.

[JOP33]

After too much traveling I finally got back into the garage. One trip was back to Wareham for a high school reunion which meant a stop at FFR was mandatory. Bought a few small things for the car.
I now have all of the interior insulation on the floors and back panel.
Next was to move the battery, as it's recommended location would be a PITA to get at when it needed to be changed.
I boxed in a location below the upper trunk floor with a hinged lexan cover so it is easily accessible. Will add the sides of the box after I use a neighbors brake to make the bends (he's building a 36 Ford w/an LS engine).

96323

96324

Hope to finish up the sheet metal for the trunk tomorrow and then run stereo and alarm wires this weekend.

Nice set-up on the battery!

[JimLev]

Thanks JOP.
I used my neighbors Baileigh magnetic sheet metal brake to make the sides of the battery box, nice tool!
I used self etching primer and then painted the all sides, then used Fat Mat to keep some of the heat away from the battery.
This "one day" project turned into a 3 day job. The top frame cutouts and painting slowed me down.

96596

96597

96598

[AJT '33]

Thanks JOP.
I used my neighbors Baileigh magnetic sheet metal brake to make the sides of the battery box, nice tool!
I used self etching primer and then painted the all sides, then used Fat Mat to keep some of the heat away from the battery.
This "one day" project turned into a 3 day job. The top frame cutouts and painting slowed me down.

96598

Hey Jim, noticed you ran your exhausts inboard instead of outboard, any reason why?
96725

[JimLev]

Hey Jim, noticed you ran your exhausts inboard instead of outboard, any reason why?
96725
That was months ago, I originally had it the way you did it but then changed it because (I think) there was a little more room the way I have it now.

Question for you guys, how's the heat on the floor above the mufflers?
I have insulation on both sides of the floor but after 10 min of driving the chassis around the floor is so hot you can't leave your hand on the floor insulation for more than 3-4 seconds.
I'm going to add a metal shield between the muffler and the floor.

[JOP33]

That was months ago, I originally had it the way you did it but then changed it because (I think) there was a little more room the way I have it now.

Question for you guys, how's the heat on the floor above the mufflers?
I have insulation on both sides of the floor but after 10 min of driving the chassis around the floor is so hot you can't leave your hand on the floor insulation for more than 3-4 seconds.
I'm going to add a metal shield between the muffler and the floor.

You may want to try wrapping the muffler as well, if you haven't already.

[OnlyAndy]

I am not nearly as far along on my 33' as you but I have been reading,,, and Reading,,, and put a patch of self adhesive alum/fiberglass heat barrier underside of alum floor pan right above muffler. Then I will do the interior insulation etc when I get that far. THEN I also bought a Flowmaster 75 alum muffler heat shield kit. It is way longer that the F5 muffler and has 4 SS mounting bands included. If I cut it in half I believe I can cover nearly all of each muffler. I DON'T know yet if I will have interference between the bottom of chassis and the shield. Plan is to get on the exhaust system today so I may know if I made a good choice or not.... soon.

[AJT '33]

I am not nearly as far along on my 33' as you but I have been reading,,, and Reading,,, and put a patch of self adhesive alum/fiberglass heat barrier underside of alum floor pan right above muffler. Then I will do the interior insulation etc when I get that far. THEN I also bought a Flowmaster 75 alum muffler heat shield kit. It is way longer that the F5 muffler and has 4 SS mounting bands included. If I cut it in half I believe I can cover nearly all of each muffler. I DON'T know yet if I will have interference between the bottom of chassis and the shield. Plan is to get on the exhaust system today so I may know if I made a good choice or not.... soon.

Sounds like what I have done so far as well.
96771

[OnlyAndy]

I have been on the exhaust install all am and the short passenger down pipe to the "S" pipe won't fit. Angle is off, needs to drop about 1/2" for flanges to meet up properly. Tried playing with engine mounts and adding extra gaskets at pipe header flange but can't get it. F5 tech says to send pics....maybe next monday... too frustrated right now. Driver side looks fine. My original comment about the "alum shield",,, should have said flowmaster "70", not 75. I'm sure it will be very close, no answer this week.

[JimLev]

OnlyAndy, installing the exhaust was a major pain, how did you make out?
I haven't done much of anything to my 33 in the last 2 weeks, was on vacation and now with Thanksgiving a few days away not much is going to get done until next week. I still haven't addressed the heat shields for the mufflers, that's next on the list. I do have some wrap left over from when I wrapped all the pipes, I should probably wrap them and use that Flowmaster 70 shielding.
I did manage to install a larger 2.6" diameter pulley for my alternator. It came with a 2" one that would have spun the alt at 24K RPM at the 6600 redline. The specs say to not go above 18K RPM.

[OnlyAndy]

Well, here is what I did and it worked but I didn't like it. The two "S" pipes are the same, F5 confirmed that too me. Lay them side by side in same orientation the lengths, angles and bends match. BUT they go in car as a left,,, and a right. So the flange angle sends one pipe up and the other down. In My case the driver side went down and that was what I wanted. The passenger side.... I needed about 1/4" pie cut to make angles match so cut out that 1/4 leaving a small hinge of metal at top, closed the gap and had a local shop re tig weld. Now both pipes have same angle and its not perfect but close. Another thing I did was mark each "S" pipe were it went through chassis and put them in my arbor press and "flattened" them out, just a little bit. You won't lose pipe volume but you will gain clearance and I DID. It worked very well and you could not tell unless you really looked at them. Oh, and F5 agreed with all my "Fixes", I wanted their blessing before I messed expensive parts up. They also told me the NEW 33' ( or 32" ? ) chassis is modified and the "S" pipe will likely have a ball connection not a flange.

[JimLev]

Good to hear you got it connected. I spent days trying to figure out how to install everything and then connect it to the BBK headers I bought.
Test fit everything, take it apart, etc.
I didn't use the exhaust manifold that F5 sent. I ended up using the side exhaust J pipes to make up a new piece to connect the headers and the S pipe that goes to the muffler.
I should have flattened them too but didn't.
I did wrap all the pipes to lower the radiated heat and to prevent any vibrations if they did happen to hit the frame.
Last night I ordered DEI muffler shielding and more exhaust wrap. Should be here on Wed.
I'm going to wrap the mufflers and put the shielding on them. With the floors already riveted in I'll have to pull the mufflers from under the car (no lift), I don't want to have to do it twice. With both products on the floor should stay a lot cooler.

Ball sockets would have make connection and aligning easier.

97751

97752

[OnlyAndy]

I forgot to mention. The Flowmaster 70 series alum muffler heat shield.... Cut it in half and it covers most of the muffler very well. There will be two SS straps on each to hold them on,,, So, I think its a go.... I won't know for some time if it actually helps with the heat issue, but fits and looks pretty good.

[JimLev]

I ended up buying the DEI muffler insulation, its got a layer of fiberglass insulation and a top layer of dimpled aluminum.
I bought one piece 24" x 42" and cut it in half.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SCWJDKG/ref=od_aui_detailpages01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I first used some 2" exhaust pipe wrap to cover the body of the muffler.

98183

Next was to use the DEI to completely cover the muffler.

98184

98185

Just finished installing the mufflers back on the car.
Tomorrow I'll check to see how much cooler the floor boards are.

[NAZ]

That's a nice looking job of insulating the mufflers. From my experience it seems to take a very thick insulator to be effective. Mufflers soak up a lot of heat and the large surface area radiates a ton of heat to the surrounding area. Some times it seems a deflector shield is more effective against radiant heat if you have several inches of free air between the heat source and the part you're trying to protect. It's not likely you have that kind of room between the mufflers and the floorboards -- pipes maybe but likely not the mufflers.

Perhaps your insulation will work but if not -- can you fit mufflers in the section of pipe between the rear bulkhead and the axle? Might require a different design muffler but if you can accomplish this it will be easier to effectively insulate or shield the section of muffler replacement pipe under the floorboards. And moving the large heat sink (mufflers) to an open area in front of the rear axle will allow the heat to escape where it won't cause you a problem. Or better yet, move them behind the axle if there is room.

Projects always seems to produce a constant list of problems to solve. Good luck and have fun. Remember, these are just challenges and opportunities.

[OnlyAndy]

Just for the record, I got my Flowmaster 70 heat shields in today. It's only on the top of muffler and cutting the one shield in half length wise covers both F5 mufflers very nicely. There is about 1/2 in room below alum floor ( not installed yet ) for air to move across it and the two SS bands hold them on very tight,,, Good fit and I must say they look nice. BUT,,, have no idea if they will help the heat issue very much. Worth a try.... AND I must say you did one heck of a job covering your mufflers. Very well done.

[erlihemi]

I'm kinda in the shield to deflect camp myself. Hopefully the new floor design will help this issue. I like to put a shiny shield between the heat source and what I am protecting with insulation on the back side of the shield. This allows air flow to move the heat off and away. On a long rear exhaust its my belief that getting the heat out rather than containing it also reduces back pressure. Mass flow and heat transfer thermodynamics support this. I minimize wraps to short tight clearance sections. The other issue with the wraps is corrosion protection. I prefer coatings over wraps when I can get them. A 2.5" pipe will allow the hot gas to expand more than a 2.25" pipe which helps drop the temperature also. So in theory the largest muffler with the most surface facing airflow under the car will run the coolest. I used the floor as the reflector and insulated below it with the DEI tunnel shield and multiple layers above it for both heat and sound. The metallic surface spreads (conducts) the heat out for transfer over a wider area than the top of the muffler your sitting on. Basically your building a heat sink vice a heat containment system and then moving the heat away and diluting it.
Just my approach. Still sweat in a black car with no A/C anyway:)

[JimLev]

Good info guys.
Today I let the engine run (45°F outside) until the electric fan came on so I'd know the engine was fully warmed up.
There was no wind, the car just sat in the driveway running. The inner floors above the muffler were a little warm, nothing like before.
I could actually touch the sides of the mufflers for 3-4 seconds before my fingers got too hot.

With the 2 layers of insulation on the mufflers there is now about a 1/4" gap between the top of the muffler insulation and the bottom of the floor.
I did put some paper thin gold foil on the floor a while ago that was suppose to reflect heat which it probably did but it really didn't have anywhere to go except back to the muffler.
This is the gold foil.
98234

With a little air flow it should be fine even in the summer with the AC on.
The exhaust tone/volume didn't change, which was good.

OnlyAndy, I'm sure yours will help too. Does it have any fiberglass insulation on it or is it just aluminum?

Erlihemi, my headers (both cars) are ceramic coated which helps contain the heat. I'm not worried about corrosion the exhaust and mufflers are stainless.

[HVACMAN]

Jim, Do you have a picture of how your shift cable bracket mounted to the transmission?

[JimLev]

Jim, Do you have a picture of how your shift cable bracket mounted to the transmission?

Andy, I think this is what you are asking for. Let me know if it's something else.
I used some longer bolts and washers (at the shifter) to space the cable a little close to the drivers side to get it further away from the driveshaft.

98425

[HVACMAN]

Andy, I think this is what you are asking for. Let me know if it's something else.
I used some longer bolts and washers to space the cable a little close to the drivers side to get it further away from the driveshaft.

98425

Thanks Jim. That is exactly what I needed to see. 98484 As you can see the bracket that attaches the shift cable to the transmission pan is reversed from yours. When I turned it so that the mounting holes face forward the cable is on the wrong side.

[JimLev]

Andy, the slotted holes on the first cable shift bracket they sent were to narrow for the bolts to fit thru.

[HVACMAN]

Did they send you a replacement? If so do you have a part number by chance?

[JimLev]

Did they send you a replacement? If so do you have a part number by chance?

Yes, they sent me the correct one, pretty sure I called Lokar directly and not Jeg's where I bought the shifter from.
The p/n is 68182P, description is Zinc Cable Operated Lower Mounting Bracket.