John's EZ36R H6 818R Build

[Hobby Racer]

It's about time I started my build thread. I've been following the 818 since its beginning, waiting patiently to pull the trigger and start my next project. From the first time I saw Wayne's thread on putting in an H6, I was sold. Love the idea of a naturally aspirated torquey motor, and then there is the exhaust note. I do a number of open track events each year and my current track / street car takes a lot of abuse for it. The 818 checked all the right boxes for me as a track car.


Light weight
Easy to work on
Inexpensive parts
Able to be built in my garage


Having 165k on the donor, I found many of the donor parts to be unusable so I have been replacing and rebuilding as I go. You find all kinds of cool stuff, like busted teeth in the transmission :(.
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As the donor was from the north east, lots of rusty parts too.

Here is a quick timeline to bring you up to speed.


8/14 Bought 06 WRX donor, started teardown
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4/15 Built new garage so I can build new car
5/16 Picked up 818R Chassis #422 @ FFR
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6/16 Bought EZ36R engine
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11/16 Started build

[Hobby Racer]

Luckily I can install / remove the motor trans combo in a few minutes which makes it easy to do trial and error stuff.
I will be using STI Group N motor and transmission mounts. The motor mounts will require custom plates to join the block to the rubber mounts.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62962&d=1484868918

[Hobby Racer]

Like others on the forum that are installing an EZ36R or an EZ30R, modifications are needed. Some have moved the engine trans combo back ~ 1 in. but I decided to notch out the frame where the cam phasers hit the frame. This will allow me to use an STI 6 speed in the future if I need too.

Right side cam phasers hit the frame
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=62963&d=1484868919

Frame notched out to allow motor / trans combo to fit using the stock position.
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Boxing in the notches.
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Everything welded up.
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Now for some paint to finish it up.

[Hobby Racer]

Originally I was going to use the WRX 4 pot front and 2 pot rear brakes until I came across this article on nasioc (https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2773522) outlining an inexpensive big brake upgrade for Subaru's

Sold these to fund my big brake upgrade
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After doing much research I decided to use the Cadillac calipers and STI rotors for both the front and rear of the 818R! I used the kit mentioned in the nasioc thread to mount the front calipers and fabricated mounting brackets for the rear.

Best part is that now I have the same calipers, brake pads, and rotors for the front and rear. I only need one of each as spares!

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[flynntuna]

Your right! It is about time for this build thread. ;). Are you eliminating the front pitch stop mount by using the motor and trans mounts your using?

Be advised that I'll be following your thread with the intention of using many of your ideas.:D

[turbomacncheese]

Cadillac...what?!?!?!?!?!?!??!

[Hobby Racer]

Are you eliminating the front pitch stop mount by using the motor and trans mounts your using?

Correct, but I have the option of installing the extra front mount should the engine pitch front to rear too much.

[Sgt.Gator]

You have good skills. Now if you can figure out how to dry sump the EZ36 I will be eternally indebted to you.

[longislandwrx]

awesome rear brakes! any more pictures of your brackets? I am doing the same but with wilwood calipers/rotors

[Hobby Racer]

You have good skills. Now if you can figure out how to dry sump the EZ36 I will be eternally indebted to you.

Funny you should say that, I am starting off with an Accusump and will closely monitor the pressures during testing. If I see that it is not sufficient I plan to fabricate a dry sump pan and build a scavenge only system, similar to what you guys have done for the EJ's. I'll definitely post info if that comes about!

[Hobby Racer]

awesome rear brakes! any more pictures of your brackets? I am doing the same but with wilwood calipers/rotors

I posted this in different thread (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23159-CTSV-Brembo-brake-swap), but here they are again to keep this all in one thread. They were very easy to fabricate, 3/16 in. plate for the bracket with the holes and 1/4 in. plate for the caliper mounting ears.

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[Hindsight]

Looks awesome and I'm sure it will work well. I'm using the Subaru 4/2 pots with factory master cylinder and pedals and am not happy at all with the brake performance. Have been spending a lot of time trying to tune and adjust the brakes to get them to my liking and am still not there yet. Hope this setup works well for you.

[Hobby Racer]

I'm using the Subaru 4/2 pots with factory master cylinder and pedals and am not happy at all with the brake performance.

I did a lot of analysis on the 4/2 pots and the ATS-V swap prior to pulling the trigger. The 4/2 pots are all wrong for the balance of the 818 compared to the WRX. I found a great online brake bias calculator (http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/bias-calculator/) and ran the stock 4/2 pots and the ATS-V brembo brakes.

Turns out, with my Wilwood pedal setup, the 4/2 pots are way to front biased and the ATS-V brembos are almost perfect. If you are interested I can post the results.

[Hindsight]

Sure, I would be interested in seeing it. The only issue is that the wilwood pedal setup is expensive and would require a lot of re-work for me at this point. I also don't think it would work with my ABS setup (or really any ABS setup). I'd really like to keep the ABS.

I just checked out the calculator and noticed that there is nothing in there factoring the leverage on the pedal (IE where the foot pad is vs where the pushrod is). I would think that would change your numbers substantially, though probably inconsequential for calculating front to rear bias.

[Hobby Racer]

I just checked out the calculator and noticed that there is nothing in there factoring the leverage on the pedal (IE where the foot pad is vs where the pushrod is).

I used the more advanced Dual Master Cylinder Calaulator (http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/dual-bias-calc/) that is referenced from the original link I posted. This one takes the pivot point, and many other factors, into consideration.

Here is the 4/2 pot analysis:

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And here is the ATS-V brembo setup.

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I really wish the forum would let you upload PDF's larger than 200kb! Important results are in the lower right corner of the second page for both setups.

[Hobby Racer]

To avoid fuel starve I am going to try the Holley Hydramat. This one (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/hydramats/parts/16-11) connects directly to the Walbro 255 replacement pump I purchased so no adapters needed. I quickly learned that the FFR tank is to short to fit the stock fuel pump hanger, much less one with a Hydramat attached. Time for the modifications!

I cut off the bottom section of the pump hanger and welded on a spring loaded radiator clamp to hold the fuel pump in a position perpendicular to the tank bottom. This made it so the Hyrdramat sits perfectly flat against the tank floor.

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I then used small magnets and some safety wire to craft hold downs for the ends of the Hydramat to keep it as close the the bottom of the tank as possible. With the fuel pump hanger assembly completed I was just able to get it into the tank without bending anything.

Trick Hydramat hold downs
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Completed fuel hanger assembly
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Picture in tank
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[Wayne Presley]

Man all that stuff looks great!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scargo]

I like it too! I think this is a better solution than a surge tank with all the additional plumbing, pump and wiring. It's also rare that anyone will need more than a stock or common upgrade, in-tank pump can do.

[Hobby Racer]

Man all that stuff looks great!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Wayne, that means a lot. I always follow your posts with great admiration.


I like it too! I think this is a better solution than a surge tank with all the additional plumbing, pump and wiring. It's also rare that anyone will need more than a stock or common upgrade, in-tank pump can do.

I also like the simplicity and compact packaging of using this system instead of an external swirl pot. I hope the Hydramat performs as well as expected.

[Hindsight]

I like the hydramat hold-down idea so much I may copy it.... though I might use bar magnets directly on top of the hydramat in an effort to pin it to the tank instead of using safety wire. I dunno if strong magnets will be strong enough but I guess I will soon see. Also, big thanks for posting the picture of it in the tank!!! In my head, I remember the small in-tank baffle being much closer to the pickup, and I also forgot that the attachment point of the hydramat is not centered - I was concerned the hydramat wouldn't fit due to the baffle being in the way and that I'd have to pound the baffle flat but then worried about it's edge cutting into the hydramat over time. Guess I don't have to worry about that!

I will be interested in seeing if this solves starvation issues on the track. If it doesn't, you can always add a surge tank later (like I am doing). The Radium surge tank offers a version with a built-in fuel pressure regulator which substantially cuts down on the plumbing and keeps things really clean. It's very expensive though.

[flynntuna]

I like the hold down trick too, though I'm going to spring for the aluminum Boyd tank, so the magnets won't work. Holly has an epoxy based hold down, but I not sure if I trust it or more accurately my skill in installing it. Lol I wonder if Biyd would weld in aluminum studs or bolts to the bottom to secure the mat.

[Wayne Presley]

Just bond some steel plates in the bottom of the tank for the magnet stick to. Then you can remove it if you needed to.

[flynntuna]

Just bond some steel plates in the bottom of the tank for the magnet stick to. Then you can remove it if you needed to.

Wow, that's brilliant. Thank you.

[Hobby Racer]

Well I have been working to fabricate some motor mounts for the EZ36R and I have to say, it was not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

I started with a new set of STI Group N mounts and removed the top plates (they will not be used).
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Next I grabbed some 1 1/2" angle iron and some plate steel, both 3/16" thick. Measuring and getting the angles correct was the hardest part. The FFR mounting tabs are angled inward ~21 degrees and pitched forward ~10 degrees. This required a compound bend in the flat plate to attach to the third mounting point on the EZ36R block.
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Finally I bolted everything up and tack welded the angle and plate steel pieces together while they were on the car to ensure a perfect fit up. Then removed the mounts for final welding. I also added a gusset down the center for added strength.
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I designed them so that nothing hangs below the underbelly of the car as I will be installing a full under-tray for better aero.

I'll post pics of them installed after I paint them.

[ben1272]

To avoid fuel starve I am going to try the Holley Hydramat. This one (https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/hydramats/parts/16-11) connects directly to the Walbro 255 replacement pump I purchased so no adapters needed. I quickly learned that the FFR tank is to short to fit the stock fuel pump hanger, much less one with a Hydramat attached. Time for the modifications!

I cut off the bottom section of the pump hanger and welded on a spring loaded radiator clamp to hold the fuel pump in a position perpendicular to the tank bottom. This made it so the Hyrdramat sits perfectly flat against the tank floor.



6314763148

I then used small magnets and some safety wire to craft hold downs for the ends of the Hydramat to keep it as close the the bottom of the tank as possible. With the fuel pump hanger assembly completed I was just able to get it into the tank without bending anything.

Trick Hydramat hold downs
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Completed fuel hanger assembly
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Picture in tank
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Awesome! I am going to do this same install. Nice photographs.

[Hobby Racer]

Finally got both seats mounted in the car. Now I can finalize the steering column position and adjust the pedals. I put the driver seat on universal sliding rails I got off eBay. They give me 3 1/2" of travel, from the front lower cross bar to the rear firewall. Not a ton of adjustment, but every little bit helps. I mounted both seat as low in the chassis as I could.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63916&d=1486941827

The passenger seat is non adjustable as it touches the front lower cross bar and is only 1/2" off the rear firewall.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63915&d=1486941827

[Hobby Racer]

I've been working on the shifter and cable system. I am using the optional aluminum FFR shifter but running the cables straight back. This required fabricating two bell cranks to reverse the cable push/pull direction so the transmission shift pattern is preserved.

Its coming out really nice. I'll post pics this weekend.

[Scargo]

Nice. Looking forward to seeing them. I hope you have taken advantage of all the people here on the forum who have done their own and documented it! Lots of good ideas...

[Hobby Racer]

Nice. Looking forward to seeing them. I hope you have taken advantage of all the people here on the forum who have done their own and documented it! Lots of good ideas...

Definitely... this forum is full of great ideas and helpful people, one of my favorite places on the web!

[305mouse]

I just noticed you're in Syracuse. Myself and Mechie both lived there for a bit. While he's farther away now, I'm just East of Rochester. I'll have to see this thing as progress moves along.

[Hobby Racer]

I just noticed you're in Syracuse. Myself and Mechie both lived there for a bit. While he's farther away now, I'm just East of Rochester. I'll have to see this thing as progress moves along.

Wow, small world. Definitely have to get together when the weather gets better.

[Hobby Racer]

I purchased the optional K-tuned FFR aluminum shifter from another forum member and really love the looks and operation, it really is art. However, the forward facing cable layout FFR uses leaves much to be desired. After reading many MR2 shifter conversion threads, I decided to do my own rear facing cable conversion using my FFR aluminum shifter. Initially I was going to turn the shifter backwards and go from there, but I decided to leave it facing forward. Either way would require dual bell cranks to change the direction of throw for the forward and side motion so the transmission shift pattern would be normal.

I then cut the front of the shifter off to make room for my Wilwood brake adjuster; made a new base plate and started fitting the bell cranks. Each bell crank has three adjustment locations for the cable and shifter connection allowing a large amount of adjustment for shift throw. The final cable routing allows for an almost straight shot back to the transmission. I am also using Mechie's rear bell crank to eliminate the large loop for the twisting motion of the shift shaft. My new cables will only need to be 70" total length!


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64660&d=1488669800

The bell cranks are made from 1/4" aluminum plate with 5/16" Oilite bronze bushings pressed into the pivot for smooth operation.

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[Bob_n_Cincy]

Very ingenious Hobby racer. I love it.
Gets my vote for best 818 IIIE award. (IIIE= ingenious innovative Idea and execution)
Bob

[Zach34]

That's fantastic! Which linkage did you end up going with - the ball joint or clevis?

[Hobby Racer]

That's fantastic! Which linkage did you end up going with - the ball joint or clevis?

I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning toward the ball joints because they allow for easy, no tool adjustments. But until I test run it through the gears I am leaving my options open.

[Scargo]

That's very slick. Can you speak to your decision to reverse the direction at the shifter vs doing it at the tranny, where you would have only one reversal bellcrank required.
I vote for the clevises. Where did you get the clevises... McMaster-Carr?

[Hindsight]

SLICK! Very nicely made parts!

Where are you going to put the e-brake? Going with electronic?

[Hobby Racer]

That's very slick. Can you speak to your decision to reverse the direction at the shifter vs doing it at the tranny, where you would have only one reversal bellcrank required.
I vote for the clevises.

I had already purchased Zero Decibel's rear bell crank shifter kit and did not want to waste it! Plus it would still have required two bell cranks in the rear as I would have needed to eliminate the large loop that FFR uses for the twisting motion of the shift shaft. My cables are now very short and almost completely straight making for a very precise shift feel.


Where did you get the clevises... McMaster-Carr?

Yes, McMaster-Carr, I love that place!!!


SLICK! Very nicely made parts!

Where are you going to put the e-brake? Going with electronic?

No e-brake as this is track only car and I am using front brake rotors on the rear (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=264763&viewfull=1#post264763) (no parking brake inner drum).

[RM1SepEx]

Great job!

[Scargo]

I had already purchased Zero Decibel's rear bell crank shifter kit and did not want to waste it! Plus it would still have required two bell cranks in the rear as I would have needed to eliminate the large loop that FFR uses for the twisting motion of the shift shaft. My cables are now very short and almost completely straight making for a very precise shift feel...
No e-brake as this is track only car and I am using front brake rotors on the rear (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=264763&viewfull=1#post264763) (no parking brake inner drum).
I could have said, "Because Race Car!" for you...
I understand now since you had that nifty stuff from Zero Decibel. Still, it could be done with one bellcrank mounted on the bracket in the back for the shaft "in and out". I have the S2K shifter I will mod for mine.

[Hobby Racer]

...it could be done with one bellcrank mounted on the bracket in the back for the shaft "in and out".

I would still have needed a crank to reverse the twist motion (or fabbed up a way to flip Zero Decibels trwist crank).

Another benefit of my design is the angle of the cables coming into the cockpit. They are angled down which is their natural position when routed under the intake manifold and over the FFR gas tank. It makes for almost no bends in the cables.

[wmaurojr]

Are you planning on using forged internals, or just stock?

[Hobby Racer]

Are you planning on using forged internals, or just stock?

Completely stock to start with. There is very little offered in aftermarket parts for the Subaru flat 6 motors. Almost nothing for the EZ36R.

[Wayne Presley]

supertech makes pistons

[Hobby Racer]

supertech makes pistons

For the EZ30 yes, but not the EZ36 unfortunately.

[craigfree]

A piston is a piston, spec it out and you can have it made for marginally more than an "ez30" piston. Same for rods, but you will need to go back to symmetric rods.

[Hobby Racer]

... Still, it could be done with one bellcrank mounted on the bracket in the back for the shaft "in and out".

This got me thinking, so I redesigned my shifter to have all the bell cranks mounted in the back at the transmission. I was able to modify the Zero Decibel Motorsports Bell Crank Shifter to work with either the stock FFR shifter or the optional aluminum FFR shifter and run the cables straight back for better shifter feel.

The mods are labeled for easy identification.


Make a new cable bulkhead mount
Replace the 3/8" spacers between the ZDM bracket and transmission with a new bracket to support the additional bell crank to reverse the in/out motion
Flip the stock bracket upside down to improve clearance
Rotate the stock twist bell crank to reverse the twist motion


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64825&d=1489016789

I have new custom cables and more red aluminum rod ends on order to finish out the design. I will post completed pics when all the new parts arrive.

Here is a picture of the stock ZDM bell crank setup for comparison.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64829&d=1489018539

[ben1272]

This got me thinking, so I redesigned my shifter to have all the bell cranks mounted in the back at the transmission. I was able to modify the Zero Decibel Motorsports Bell Crank Shifter to work with either the stock FFR shifter or the optional aluminum FFR shifter and run the cables straight back for better shifter feel.

The mods are labeled for easy identification.


Make a new cable bulkhead mount
Replace the 3/8" spacers between the ZDM bracket and transmission with a new bracket to support the additional bell crank to reverse the in/out motion
Flip the stock bracket upside down to improve clearance
Rotate the stock twist bell crank to reverse the twist motion


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64825&d=1489016789

I have new custom cables and more red aluminum rod ends on order to finish out the design. I will post completed pics when all the new parts arrive.

Here is a picture of the stock ZDM bell crank setup for comparison.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64829&d=1489018539

Nice job.

[bbjones121]

I purchased the optional K-tuned FFR aluminum shifter from another forum member and really love the looks and operation, it really is art. However, the forward facing cable layout FFR uses leaves much to be desired. After reading many MR2 shifter conversion threads, I decided to do my own rear facing cable conversion using my FFR aluminum shifter. Initially I was going to turn the shifter backwards and go from there, but I decided to leave it facing forward. Either way would require dual bell cranks to change the direction of throw for the forward and side motion so the transmission shift pattern would be normal.

I then cut the front of the shifter off to make room for my Wilwood brake adjuster; made a new base plate and started fitting the bell cranks. Each bell crank has three adjustment locations for the cable and shifter connection allowing a large amount of adjustment for shift throw. The final cable routing allows for an almost straight shot back to the transmission. I am also using Mechie's rear bell crank to eliminate the large loop for the twisting motion of the shift shaft. My new cables will only need to be 70" total length!


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64660&d=1488669800

The bell cranks are made from 1/4" aluminum plate with 5/16" Oilite bronze bushings pressed into the pivot for smooth operation.

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Awesome Idea! I may do this. How does the gear engagement feel?

[Hobby Racer]

I actually already changed my setup. See post #47 above. When the custom cable arrive next week I'll post about the shift feel.

[flynntuna]

A couple questions, first are you doing anything special with your alternator brackets? Are your engine mounts keeping the engine at the stock height? I'm finding that the space between the frame and the engine is pretty tight.
I have about a 3/8" spacer between the motor mount and engine to accommodate the front pitch mount. I may have to notch the frame like you did. The way I have it now the headers will have to be at nearly 90' to clear the rear suspension brackets.

[Hobby Racer]

...are you doing anything special with your alternator brackets?

The cast aluminum piece will double as a mounting point for a dry sump scavenge pump if needed. It is also the front lifting point when I take the engine/trans in and out.


Are your engine mounts keeping the engine at the stock height?

Right side engine mount form underneath.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64919&d=1489186346

I think I raised the motor about an inch compared to where FFR places the EJ motor. I did that so the drain plug would not hang below the plane of the belly pan as I am going to have a flat bottom for better aero. I did not raise the trans mount, that works just fine.


I'm finding that the space between the frame and the engine is pretty tight.
I have about a 3/8" spacer between the motor mount and engine to accommodate the front pitch mount. I may have to notch the frame like you did.

Its definitely tight. I have between 3/8" and 1/2" space between the right side cam phasers and the frame where I notched it out. Luckly the STI mounts are quite stiff and with the natural balance of a flat motor there should not be much side to side movement.

Here is pic from underneath the right cam phaser looking up.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65122&d=1489616085

I also added a snubber in case the motor pitches forward so it won't damage the cam phasers. If the motor moves more than a 1/4" forward, the vertical channel will push up against the thick front pitch mount on the case preventing further movement. Under normal conditions it does not touch.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65123&d=1489616086


The way I have it now the headers will have to be at nearly 90' to clear the rear suspension brackets.

Instead of routing the exhaust over the suspension and out the back, I think I am going to try to exit it just in front of the rear tires on each side. It will make for a really short exhaust run, maybe 20". The exhaust will exit through the side sails.

[flynntuna]

I like your solution using the snubber, I'm using the stock motor mounts so I'm going to use the pitch mount bracket. My engine didn't come with the alternator bracket so I'll have to source one. :(. Here's a couple of pics using the headers that I got with the car.. Not sure yet if I'll cut these up or start from scratch. It seems that cutting the tubes and add sections to them might work, that would be my first choice, but then again sometimes what seems the easiest route doesn't always pan out.:rolleyes:

[craigfree]

I like your solution using the snubber, I'm using the stock motor mounts so I'm going to use the pitch mount bracket. My engine didn't come with the alternator bracket so I'll have to source one. :(. Here's a couple of pics using the headers that I got with the car.. Not sure yet if I'll cut these up or start from scratch. It seems that cutting the tubes and add sections to them might work, that would be my first choice, but then again sometimes what seems the easiest route doesn't always pan out.:rolleyes:

Are Those are the raptor SC headers? Are they torqued down and clearing the frame?

[flynntuna]

Yes they are the raptor headers, unfortunately they don't fit without modification. They hit the frame where the rear suspension bolts to.

[Zach34]

There is a video somewhere on this forum showing an ej motor with SIGNIFICANT movement under acceleration. I think it was in somebody's build thread. You will have to search. It seemed evident that not utilizing the dogbone mount that attaches to the top of the trans just behind the stock intercooler, as the kit is designed, allows too much movement. Your cam phaser would definitely hit even if your engine only moves half as much as the ej in the video. The motion to worry about is not engine vibration. It's the twisting from the drivetrain

[Bob_n_Cincy]

There is a video somewhere on this forum showing an ej motor with SIGNIFICANT movement under acceleration. I think it was in somebody's build thread. You will have to search. It seemed evident that not utilizing the dogbone mount that attaches to the top of the trans just behind the stock intercooler, as the kit is designed, allows too much movement. Your cam phaser would definitely hit even if your engine only moves half as much as the ej in the video. The motion to worry about is not engine vibration. It's the twisting from the drivetrain

Zach, That video was mine.
The video was with OEM engine and trans mounts. I switched to Megan Racing mounts. I still don't use a dog bone.

http://www.meganracing.com/product_detail.asp?prodid=948


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ7PRMYRqRw

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Zach, That video was mine.
The video was with OEM engine and trans mounts. I switched to Megan Racing mounts. I still don't use a dog bone.

Here is a second video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xACmwALj8ig

[flynntuna]

There is a video somewhere on this forum showing an ej motor with SIGNIFICANT movement under acceleration. I think it was in somebody's build thread. You will have to search. It seemed evident that not utilizing the dogbone mount that attaches to the top of the trans just behind the stock intercooler, as the kit is designed, allows too much movement. Your cam phaser would definitely hit even if your engine only moves half as much as the ej in the video. The motion to worry about is not engine vibration. It's the twisting from the drivetrain

Both John and I are using the EZ36 motor which uses a pitch mount in front of the engine instead of the dogbone that you describe. Johns using custom motor mounts and I'm using stock mounts and the pitch stop.

[craigfree]

Yes they are the raptor headers, unfortunately they don't fit without modification. They hit the frame where the rear suspension bolts to.

Shame. I remember ruling out the raptor but I got excited when I saw your exhaust. In my opinion it is one of two issues preventing more ez builds (other is ecu)

[flynntuna]

Don't want to hijack John's thread on side issues, but although headers, ECU and probably wiring harness add expense, you don't need the expense of intercoolers ect.

We can talk about the pros and cons of the ez36 on this thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19700-EZ36-Engine-required-items&highlight=Ez36 Or start another thread.

[Hobby Racer]

I installed a secondary rear firewall to completely separate the engine bay from the cockpit. Since I'm installing an EZ36R and its tight, I installed the aluminum sheet on the cockpit side and not the engine side like most others have done. Sealed the panel with silicone and secured it with rivets.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65707&d=1490657778

[Hobby Racer]

To give the side intrusion panels a finished look, I wrapped them in carbon fiber vinyl wrap. They look excellent. I will also wrap the FFR rear firewall and center console.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65709&d=1490657807

[frankc5r]

Did you use 3M wrap or a different supplier?

[Hobby Racer]

Did you use 3M wrap or a different supplier?

I used Vvivid XPO Dry Carbon Black (http://www.vvividhq.com/automotive-wrap-films). Great to work with and much cheaper than 3M Dinoc

[frankc5r]

Thanks. I will order some.

[Chris @ Forma]

Sorry for the out of order reply, but, I just read your thread for the first time this morning. One caution on using your magnetic mounts in your tank particularly if you think you may burn E85, many magnets, particularly rare earth, are susceptible to corrosion. We are aware of E85 damaging non-anodized aluminum parts, zinc plated fasteners, etc. I have never tested magnets in fuel, so i really don't know that you are headed for a problem, however, you might want to take an extra magnet, attach it to a stray piece of steel and drop it in a glass jar of your preferred fuel and park it on a shelf. It would really suck to have the hydromat started floating around in your tank when you need it most.
BTW the carbon fiber wrap looks fantastic.

[Mechie3]

Just caught up on this thread. I like how you modified the bell crank assembly. :)

[Hobby Racer]

One caution on using your magnetic mounts in your tank particularly if you think you may burn E85, many magnets, particularly rare earth, are susceptible to corrosion.

Good information. The magnets are from Holley, specifically made for use with Hydromat in a fuel tank so I hope it will be ok.

[Hobby Racer]

Added an extension to the center console that I use as a place to push off from when lifting myself out of the seat.

You can also see part of the carbon fiber wrapped rear firewall.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65961&d=1491267530

[Hobby Racer]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71704&d=1501710997

Lots of changes, but I'm focusing on the the coolant system for this post. I had the following list of ideas I wanted to implement for my coolant system.


Use a large dual pass / dual row aluminum radiator
Run a Laminova oil to water oil cooler
Run both coolant tubes down the passenger side
Use hard lines were ever possible (not using the corrugated tubing that comes with the kit)
Have it look as OEM as possible
Use Gates PowerGrip heat shrinking coolant clamps (no worm gear clamps here!)


I started fabricating the coolant tubes using the 1.5" aluminum tubing that comes with the kit. I soon figured out I need more than the two tubes the kit ships with and ordered a few more online. I pie cut the tubing where I needed bends and had a local guy tig weld up my joints when I was finished. Below is the progression.

Tubes fabricated and fit up before tig welding, and after tig welding.

71713 71712

Like all H6 motors, the EZ36 has two coolant outputs at the top of the motor that need to be joined together before routing the coolant to the front radiator. This required fabricating a very unique coolant tube. It can be seen as the first tube is each of the above pictures. Here it is installed on the motor in the pictures below.

71717 71721

Next, hot coolant flows through the top tube to the front mounted radiator. The tubes along the side of the car are spaced apart so as not to transfer heat as much as possible given the space constraints of the side panels of the car. It goes for a double pass through the radiator and then out the bottom and back to the underside of the engine.

71716 71714 71718 71719

71720 71715

The radiator was mounted as vertical as possible, not laid down like the WRX radiator would be. This gives a better flow path for the incoming air. Later I will fully seal off both the intake and exhaust sides of the radiator core to optimize flow, forcing all incoming air through the core.

You may have seen the oil to water cooler and Accusump mounted in the side panel between the coolant tubes in some of the pictures. I'll be doing a separate post on those later when they are complete.

[Hobby Racer]

I forgot to show it with the side body mounted! Its tight but everything fits under the side panel and did not require modifying the fiberglass at all.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71695&d=1501710941

[Hobby Racer]

When putting in an EZ30R or EZ36R engine in an 818, space between the front of the engine and the frame/firewall is at a premium. I noticed that I could get a good deal more clearance between the cam phasers and the frame if I tilted the engine trans combo back as far as the chassis would allow. Essentially pivoting on the motor mounts until the transmission tail housing comes close to the rear frame. To do so I would need to modify the Subaru transmission mount to reduce the amount of rubber between the upper and lower metal plates.

This picture shows a stock transmission mount next to an STI Group N mount.

71724

I took the stock mount and cut out the rubber that joins the two metal plates in preparation for pouring a new polyurethane isolater between the two plates. I have to tell you, it was quite difficult to get all the old rubber out as it was tenaciously bonded to the plates. I had to cut out as much as I could with a saws-all and then switch to a razor knife, then a wire wheel, and finally a sand blast cabinet!

71723

Here is a picture of the new mount plates tack welded together to hold their relative position so I can pour in liquid polyurethane to create the new lowered mount.

71722

Notice how much closer the top and bottom plates are as compared to the first picture. The OEM mount has 1 1/4" of rubber, and my new mount has 3/8", so I took out about 7/8".

Here is the completed mount next to an OEM STI Group-N mount.

71949

[flynntuna]

Looking good John, I like the 2 to 1 coolant pipe, I might copy it. The nipple in the center is that for bleeding the system?

[Hobby Racer]

Looking good John, I like the 2 to 1 coolant pipe, I might copy it. The nipple in the center is that for bleeding the system?

Yes, I will connect it to the expansion tank as it is the high point in the coolant system and should allow the system to purge air nicely.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hobby Racer,
I love you plumbing.
Great job, keep up the good work.

To make my cooling system self bleeding. I have 2 small hoses coming back to the expansion tank.
1. From the high point off the engine, same as you. I put a pill in that hose with 1/8" hole in it. This allows air through quickly but limits much fluid going through.

2. Small Hose from top of radiator, kept as high as possible, back to the expansion tank.

I teed these 2 hoses together before attaching to expansion tank.

Bob

[Hobby Racer]

Hobby Racer,
I love you plumbing.
Great job, keep up the good work.

To make my cooling system self bleeding. I have 2 small hoses coming back to the expansion tank.
1. From the high point off the engine, same as you. I put a pill in that hose with 1/8" hole in it. This allows air through quickly but limits much fluid going through.

2. Small Hose from top of radiator, kept as high as possible, back to the expansion tank.

I teed these 2 hoses together before attaching to expansion tank.

Bob

Bob, what did you use for the pill? Also, do you have a line installed at the bottom of the expansion tank for the engine to pull fluid back into the system?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, what did you use for the pill? Also, do you have a line installed at the bottom of the expansion tank for the engine to pull fluid back into the system?

I took a 5/16" bolt and cut 1/2" long piece out of the shank. The drilled 1/8" hole the long way.
I'm using the standard wrx expansion tank. The bottom hose out of that tank goes to the suction side of the water pump.
71749

Bob

[Hobby Racer]

I took photos of the before and after position of the motor/trans to show the extra clearance you can gain by making the Subaru transmission mount shorter.
Here is a side by side with a black line drawn across both images to help see the pitch difference. It is most noticeable looking at the valve covers.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71760&d=1501801445



Now look at the clearance difference when looking down at the engine front cover nearest the firewall.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71761&d=1501801463

I know it may not seem like much, but I need every bit I can get!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hobby
I like the short trans mount. It cures the problem of the trans not being flat.
What about moving the whole engine back an inch or so?
Bob

[Hobby Racer]

Hobby
I like the short trans mount. It cures the problem of the trans not being flat.
What about moving the whole engine back an inch or so?
Bob

I decided against that because I wanted to be able to swap the 5MT for a 6 speed if needed down the road and the 6 speeds are already tight to the rear body work. Moving the whole assemble back an inch would make the 6 speed stick out the back. Also, it would put more stress on the CV joints as they are already angled back, another inch might be too much.

With my stiff Group N motor mounts, stiff trans mount and the front snubber I installed, there should not be much engine movement at all, I hope!

[Hobby Racer]

This a long post, I know, but let me know your thoughts on my design.

By choosing not to go with the Subaru H4 engine you take on a bunch of fabricating you would not otherwise need to do. The exhaust is one of the biggest in my view. There are no headers or kits available that will bolt on and work. You need to fabricate the entire exhaust from scratch. As I have never done an exhaust system before there was a fair amount of research involved. I ended up drawing up my exhaust using a 3D cad program so I could experiment with positioning and layout before I even started cutting metal.

I had a few criteria in mind before starting:


Get the exhaust out as quickly as possible to reduce heat build up in the engine compartment
Design it so it can be easily built
Use off the shelf tubing and bends so it does not cost a fortune
Make equal length primary tubes
Try not to screw up the cars aero


Below are my ideas and a short pro/con list for each.


Run a side exit exhaust that would dump out just in front of the rear tires.

Pros: Short exhaust run; fairly straight exit path (easy to build)
Cons: Not much room given my cooling and oiling system (see previous posts)
The traditional "out the back" idea.

Pros: Nice looking; exits in a known low pressure area
Cons: Longest path (most heat transfer to engine bay); most costly; most difficult to build given the space constraints
Straight Out the bottom of the car.

Pros: Shortest possible path (least heat transfer to engine bay); easiest and cheapest to build
Cons: Screws up the under car aero; its so short the wide band O2 sensors would not read accurately

Out the top through the humps?

Pros: Short exhaust path; easily fabricated; different and unique
Cons: ?


After much debate and mock fit ups I decided to route the exhaust vertically out the top of the car through the engine double humps. I know what your thinking, that will look like a Peterbuilt truck! I thought the same thing at first, but think of the Porsche 918. Pretty slick I think.
71815

Now hide those pipes behind a set of Mechie Hump vents and you have a very cool exhaust (pun intended). Hidden design, short length, good impact on aero, easy to fabricate. I have my winner! To ensure the exhaust exits and does not swirl about in the engine bay, I will build boxes under the hump vents that will seal against each exhaust pipe.
71817

Here are some 3D CAD drawings of my exhaust design with the key frame rails inserted to ensure fitment.
The yellow rectangle represents the header flange, the redish orange cylinder is the rear top trailing arm (the one with heim joints supplied with the kit)

Isometric view from the back corner, just in front of the passenger rear tire:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71811&d=1501901606

View looking straight down from the passenger hump:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71810&d=1501901600

[bbjones121]

I am really sorry, but I recommend you evaluate the airflow first. I have cut out the humps for the vents on my car. The fumes from the engine come right out into the cockpit. I can only guess that air circulates and swirls into the back of your head.

It is sometimes overwhelming, I can't image what it will be like getting direct exhaust fumes into the cockpit area. It may asphyxiate you.

[bbjones121]

I also saw some of the first 918s, as they were driving through Denver for high altitude testing years ago. The ones that were still uncovered at the Marriott all the drivers were staying at had black soot on their deck lids. Maybe it is something they fixed, but I am guessing it will be a problem for sure on the 818.

[bbjones121]

I am not saying it can't be done, but I strongly advise you to be careful. The last thing you would want is to pass out while driving.

[flynntuna]

Remember he's has a R. So no windshield . I'm wondering if your using a muffler of some sort. Not much room except for a glass pack if that I would think . I'm liking the idea, I'll be doing my exhaust soon enough. I love this thread, so many great ideas. :cool:

[Hobby Racer]

I am really sorry, but I recommend you evaluate the airflow first. I have cut out the humps for the vents on my car. The fumes from the engine come right out into the cockpit. I can only guess that air circulates and swirls into the back of your head.

It is sometimes overwhelming, I can't image what it will be like getting direct exhaust fumes into the cockpit area. It may asphyxiate you.

Remember I am building an 818R so no windscreen and decent airflow over the rear deck, at least compared to the 818s.


I also saw some of the first 918s, as they were driving through Denver for high altitude testing years ago. The ones that were still uncovered at the Marriott all the drivers were staying at had black soot on their deck lids. Maybe it is something they fixed, but I am guessing it will be a problem for sure on the 818.

I figured that might be an issue. I will most likely paint the humps black to minimize any sooty appearance between washes. I imagine that is why Porsche has those blacked out tray inserts around the exhaust exits as well.


I am not saying it can't be done, but I strongly advise you to be careful. The last thing you would want is to pass out while driving.

I have thought about this extensively and will definitely keep an keep eye on this during testing. I plan on using wool tufts attached to the body to double check for proper air flow direction. Thank you for pointing this out though, for those building an 818S this would be a bad idea!


Remember he's has a R. So no windshield . I'm wondering if your using a muffler of some sort. Not much room except for a glass pack if that I would think . I'm liking the idea, I'll be doing my exhaust soon enough. I love this thread, so many great ideas. :cool:

You are right, no mufflers or cats :cool:. There would be room for a muffler in the vertical section at the end, its about 15" long, if I needed one.



And there is a backup plan. Should the vertical exhaust exit prove to exhibit back flow or be too messy, I can turn the pipes rearward just before they angle into the humps and exit them out the rear of the car. This keeps the manifold and collector section intact and (the hardest part to fabricate). I would only have to discard the two small sections of pipe after the flat merge collector and fabricate the relatively straight new sections needed to exit the rear of the car.

[Hobby Racer]

I have begun work to fabricate my custom headers. I have all the primary tubes, bends, and flat merge collectors as well as the header flange plates ready. Just waiting to build up the courage to light up the TIG welder and assemble the manifold sections :p.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71709&d=1501712942

[Hindsight]

Such a cool build! I can't wait to see it on the track. Any idea how much WHP you'll be making?

As for the exhaust, If you are NOT running a windshield (which I'm assuming you aren't since you have an R), then I don't think you are going to get fumes in the cabin. It's the low-pressure created by the windshield that causes the exhaust to be pulled forward into the cabin. It is, however, going to be very loud! But I'm sure that H6 will make beautiful music.

[bbjones121]

Sorry, you should be good with the R. I look forward to seeing it when it is done.

It was late last night and I got worried for you...

[Hobby Racer]

Such a cool build! I can't wait to see it on the track. Any idea how much WHP you'll be making?

Thanks for the support. I will be using the EZ36R in stock trim to start out with, so 254 hp and 247 lb ft of torque at the crank. After I get the whole car sorted I plan on going with forced induction, a centrifugal supercharger I think. Planning on low boost ~7 psi, should make about 375 hp and be fairly reliable (I hope).

[DSR-3]

'looks great! Thanks for all of your posts and pic's. Great inspiration & ideas.
I wish I had jacked-up my H6 as much as you (I'm at ~+3/8"). I don't like the pan hang either and it would have given me that much more room for my header routing.
Looking forward to your exhaust build, please keep posting. I've got a box of bends an have been noodling that project.
*Also great work on your shifter conversion!

[Hobby Racer]

'looks great! Thanks for all of your posts and pic's. Great inspiration & ideas.
I wish I had jacked-up my H6 as much as you (I'm at ~+3/8"). I don't like the pan hang either and it would have given me that much more room for my header routing.
Looking forward to your exhaust build, please keep posting. I've got a box of bends an have been noodling that project.
*Also great work on your shifter conversion!

Its not too late to jack the motor up! Its far easier now then trying to retrofit later.

I love the shifter mod, super smooth and positive shifts, which is unusual for a cable shifted unit.

[DanielsDM]

Your build is looking great!! That thing will be LOUD with no mufflers, also some tracks require mufflers, even if it passes the sound level test.

[Hobby Racer]

Your build is looking great!! That thing will be LOUD with no mufflers, also some tracks require mufflers, even if it passes the sound level test.

Not as loud as my FFR Roaster that has a 347 cubic inch V8 with no mufflers!
All the tracks I attend do not have sound limits and with ear plugs and my helmet, almost any motor is quiet ;).

[flynntuna]

What size tubing are you using ? From the pictures it looks like 2" going into the collector and 4" out. The cad drawings prospective are from the passenger side looking back, right? I spent some time looking at my car trying to see how it will work. Have you worked out how the suspension will work through its range around it? It seems that there is little room for error.

[Hobby Racer]

What size tubing are you using ? From the pictures it looks like 2" going into the collector and 4" out. The cad drawings prospective are from the passenger side looking back, right? I spent some time looking at my car trying to see how it will work. Have you worked out how the suspension will work through its range around it? It seems that there is little room for error.

The tubing sizes are as follows. Primaries are 1.5". The three primaries come together in the flat merge collector and exit to a cone that starts out as 2" and expands to 2.25". The rest of the pipe is all 2.25". You are correct on the perspective, passenger side looking back from the rear firewall.

I spent a huge amount of time working out this design. Full suspension travel was taken into account, as well as the inner fender splash guard. It does look close, but it actually has more room than if you tried to run the collector on the inside of the frame.

This video may help visualize. It is the section from the head to the collector with planes inserted for the inner fender and cylinder head.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwOB5PxT-xo&feature=youtu.be

[Samiam1017]

where did you source your header flange and collector and the pourable polyurethane for the mount thanks sam

[flynntuna]

Wow! That video is so helpful than you !

[flynntuna]

where did you source your header flange and collector and the pourable polyurethane for the mount thanks sam

Here's one source, I googled it can't vouch for it though.
http://www.spdexhaust.com/ImportB.html#

[Hobby Racer]

where did you source your header flange and collector and the pourable polyurethane for the mount thanks sam

The flange came with the motor but flyntuna is correct on the source for that.
http://www.spdexhaust.com/ImportB.html#

The collector I got here.
http://coneeng.com/collectors.html

The liquid urethane I got here.
http://www.suspension.com/diymmi

[Hobby Racer]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71944&d=1502142603

I completed the oiling system today. I removed the small factory oil to water cooler and added a take off plate so I could route the oil to my external filter. From the filter the oil goes through a much larger oil to water cooler and then it passes through a one way check valve on its way to both the Accusump oil accumulator and finally the engine. It turned out nice and compact

71946 71947

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looks great,
Are you going to have a way to measure/adjust the air side of the accusump without tacking off the side sail?
Bob

[Hobby Racer]

Looks great,
Are you going to have a way to measure/adjust the air side of the accusump without tacking off the side sail?
Bob

No, if I need to change it I will have to remove the side panel. But, all the panels are attached with rivnuts so it would be possible. I have never had to change the pre-charge on the Accusump in previous installs, so I do not think I will need to this time either.

Hmm... now that you brought it up, maybe I'll drill a hole in the side panel to access the valve on the back of the Accusump. This way I would only have to remove the door to adjust it.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hmm... now that you brought it up, maybe I'll drill a hole in the side panel to access the valve on the back of the Accusump. This way I would only have to remove the door to adjust it.


I would run a piece of brake line to a remote schrader valve with a viewable gauge. We checked ours whenever we checked the oil between each run.
Bob

[UnhipPopano]

Any chance that the way the coolant return line "http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71947&d=1502142856" as you installed it, may result in an air pocket? Not sure if with an air pocket it would make much of a difference though. As pointed out in other threads, the main function of the Oil Water heat exchange is mainly to heat the oil on cold days.

[Hobby Racer]

I am not going with the OEM return-less fuel setup that Subaru uses, but instead I am using a return system with an external fuel pressure regulator. This of course means the stock rails will need to be modified as they dead end and have no way of returning fuel to the regulator.

Here is the stock rail and a pic of the dead end that needs to be modified.
72704 72708

Drilled out the end and ground it smooth.
72707

Next, grind down a pair of -6AN to NPT fittings that will be welded to the end of the rails to allow fuel to return to the pressure regulator. Here is one being test fitted.
72706

The finished rail, welded and ground down.
72705

What I lack in welding skill, I make up for in grinding patience ;)

[flynntuna]

Are you going with a return system to insure fuel pressure under race conditions? Do you see any reason not to keep it return less, I mean Subaru had a reason to use that system right? My car will primarily be a street car, and I don't think I'll be adding any major power adders like a supercharger or turbo. Is your choice of ECU a factor in the decision? I'm a little confused. :p

[Hobby Racer]

Are you going with a return system to insure fuel pressure under race conditions? Do you see any reason not to keep it return less, I mean Subaru had a reason to use that system right? My car will primarily be a street car, and I don't think I'll be adding any major power adders like a supercharger or turbo. Is your choice of ECU a factor in the decision? I'm a little confused. :p

I am using a MegaSquirt 3 Pro aftermarket ecu. It is much simpler to use a return type system than to try and get the factory setup to work with the aftermarket ecu.

And yes, using an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator.

[flynntuna]

thanks. When did megasquirt make an ECU available for the ez36? I heard a year or two ago they were looking into it. I was considering using the Haltec because a buddy is a dealer, but more tuners around here are proficient with megasquirt .

Also, your two into one coolant line looks to have a bend were the bung is, did you heat the pipe to bend it?

[Hobby Racer]

thanks. When did megasquirt make an ECU available for the ez36? I heard a year or two ago they were looking into it. I was considering using the Haltec because a buddy is a dealer, but more tuners around here are proficient with megasquirt .

MS3-Pro ecu is a universal standalone and can be configured to run almost any engine. In particular, they have a cam/crank trigger for the Subaru 36-2-2-2 crank wheel which is used by the ez36r. It can also control the 4 VVT cams so its a nice fit. You do need to splice it into the factory harness though, it is not plug and play.


Also, your two into one coolant line looks to have a bend were the bung is, did you heat the pipe to bend it?

I used the FFR pre-bent tube for that section! Worked great for what I needed.

[STiPWRD]

And yes, using an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator.
Which one are you using? The Aeromotive 13109 has a return fitting built into the regulator.

[Hobby Racer]

Which one are you using? The Aeromotive 13109 has a return fitting built into the radiator.

I am using Aeromotive 13129, very similiar, just a slightly different pressure range.

[STiPWRD]

I am using Aeromotive 13129, very similiar, just a slightly different pressure range.
That one has a return line as well. Just curious, but why modify the rails when you could use the return line off the FPR?

[Hobby Racer]

That one has a return line as well. Just curious, but why modify the rails when you could use the return line off the FPR?

It is possible to run the regulator in that way but they are most efficient when run on the return side of the fuel system. This way fuel flows through the rail constantly and the pressure is more precisely regulated. That is why they have two inlet ports and one outlet port. Each rail feeds into a separate inlet port and the excess fuel is returned to the tank via the single outlet port.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72727&d=1503494761

[STiPWRD]

Good to know, thanks

[Samiam1017]

how did your poured tran mount turn out?

[Hobby Racer]

how did your poured tran mount turn out?

It came out excellent! I posted pics here in this post. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=289163&viewfull=1#post289163) See the last pic in the post, its on the left.

[Samiam1017]

It came out excellent! I posted pics here in this post. (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=289163&viewfull=1#post289163) See the last pic in the post, its on the left.

thanks i dont know how i missed them

[Hobby Racer]

Well, I've been buttoning up a lot of small things in preparation for the engine's first start. One thing you might find useful is how I installed a transmission temperature sensor in the 5MT. Before fabricating up a whole transmission cooler / pump assembly I thought it wise to monitor the transmission temps to see if its really needed first. I believe that part of the 5MT's fragility is due to excessive temps and their effect on lubrication.

Anyway, there is no easy place to add a temperature sensor without tapping into the case. Instead I modified the drain plug to incorporate the temperature sensor. It fits beautifully and does not protrude below the diffuser.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73632&d=1505357216

The sensor is a standard GM thermocouple used for coolant. I drilled out the female torx fitting and tapped it for 3/8" NPT. I ground flats on the sides so you can get a wrench on it now that the torx hole is gone. I also punched out the magnet on the bottom of the stock drain plug. Now I can monitor transmission temps and if needed add a cooler down the road.

736367363773635

[Hobby Racer]

Oooooh.... it's so pretty, can't wait to start it, can't wait to start it. I feel like a little kid :rolleyes:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73639&d=1505358523

[turbomacncheese]

736367363773635

Very clever! Did you put a magnet anywhere else to sweep up debris?

[Hobby Racer]

Very clever! Did you put a magnet anywhere else to sweep up debris?

I did not put the magnet back in. There was no place to secure it and I did not want it floating around. As its a track car, I drain the fluid regularly and should notice any bits floating about.

[craigfree]

How did you plug/ vent the heads, I only see one coolant discharge?

I see the expansion tank on the driver's side. I had a lot of pain venting both heads.

[Samiam1017]

did you block off any of the water lines? looks like you looped the heater hose? also what about the smog stuff what did you do there? thanks

[Hobby Racer]

How did you plug/ vent the heads, I only see one coolant discharge?

I see the expansion tank on the driver's side. I had a lot of pain venting both heads.

In the pic above the head discharge on the passenger side is hidden below one of the frame braces. You can see it clearly in the pic below.

73695

There a a lot of good pics of the coolant tubes in this post (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=289160&viewfull=1#post289160).

[Hobby Racer]

did you block off any of the water lines?

I blocked off the lines going to and from the throttle body. They are only needed to heat the intake charge during cold weather. I also blocked the line going to the factory oil / water sandwich plate cooler (I removed that cooler completely). I then connected the return port from the oil / water cooler to the return port on the bottom of the expansion tank (suction side).


looks like you looped the heater hose?

Initially I removed and plugged the heater hose lines. I then had to put them back and loop them when I discovered that they are needed for the thermostat to work correctly. There needs to be a hot coolant return path behind the thermostat so it senses the hot coolant and opens!


also what about the smog stuff what did you do there? thanks

I removed the all the smog stuff, EGR valve, drain valve, vapor canister, etc... I plugged the EGR hole in the intake manifold and the heads with block off plates.

[craigfree]

There needs to be a hot coolant return path behind the thermostat so it senses the hot coolant and opens!


I wish you told me that two months ago, it took me so long to figure that out. I was chasing venting for months.

[Hobby Racer]

I wish you told me that two months ago, it took me so long to figure that out. I was chasing venting for months.

I only stumbled across it in a nasioc thread I was reading recently and the light went off in my head. Glad I did not toss all that piping!

[flynntuna]

I removed the all the smog stuff, EGR valve, drain valve, vapor canister, etc... I plugged the EGR hole in the intake manifold and the heads with block off plates.[/QUOTE]

Are these the parts you eliminated?

[Hobby Racer]

Yes, those can be eliminated so long as you block off the openings that are left over.

[Sgt.Gator]

I hope you get on track soon, I want to see - hear this video!

[Samiam1017]

John what three size masters did you go with for your wilwood pedal assembly?

[Hobby Racer]

John what three size masters did you go with for your wilwood pedal assembly?

I went with the following:

3/4" Front
13/16" Rear
3/4" Clutch

But I am using a very different brake setup (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=264763&viewfull=1#post264763) than most. ;)

[Hobby Racer]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74406&d=1506809722

I finally started welding the header tubes together. I needed to make 6 long "J" sections for my header design. I just got a TIG welder and my skills are less than professional. But the tubes are sealed and I'm pushing forward.

74412 74411 74410

To make the tubes look nicer, I ground the welds flush with the surrounding tubes.

74409

The headers are equal length. As you can see in the picture, I offset the tubes by the collector 1.5" compared to the flange plate for better clearance.

74408

Next I have to tack weld the collector and flange plate on and do some test fitting.

[flynntuna]

Awesome!:cool:

[Hindsight]

Wow this is going to be a work of art!

[Hobby Racer]

Wow this is going to be a work of art!

Thank you. I'm hoping for good functionality, a nice appearance is a bonus.

I plan to have them ceramic coated with Swain Tech White Lightning when they are done.

[Hobby Racer]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74740&d=1507245721

Driver and passenger sides welded up.


Here are some pics installed on the drivers side to check fitment.

74749 74750 74754

Here are some pics installed on the passenger side to check fitment.

74748 74751 74752 74753

[flynntuna]

They look great! The passenger side brake line looks really close to the header. How much space is there between the header and that line?

[Hobby Racer]

They look great! The passenger side brake line looks really close to the header. How much space is there between the header and that line?

Yes, I plan on moving the brake lines to the side of the frame rail instead of on top like it is now. Figured I would wait till the headers are done in case I need to make other changes.

[Mitch Wright]

Looks like really nice solution, looking forward to the finished product.

[Samiam1017]

they look great!

[turbomacncheese]

Oooooh.... it's so pretty, can't wait to start it, can't wait to start it. I feel like a little kid :rolleyes:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73639&d=1505358523

Every time I pull up this thread, I think that intake looks like a scorpion.

[Hobby Racer]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75547&d=1508283821

Finished fabrication, still need to grind and polish the welds.

Here are some pics of the last test fitting.
75550 75553 75549 75551 75548 75552

I have ordered some hump vents for the exhaust exits.
75554

[Hindsight]

Nice work! That's going to sing.

The H6 intake manifold looks like the face-sucker from Aliens.

[turbomacncheese]

Can't wait to hear it!!

[Scargo]

Purely for racing? Many of the tracks I frequent for track days, have sound limits. Any thoughts about mufflers?

[flynntuna]

Looking great! If you get a chance, could you get a picture of the headers a little further back, with the perspective of say from the firewall to the axles?

[Sgt.Gator]

Very Nice work and a unique approach! Are the exhausts going to exit thru the humps? Now that's novel! (You may be breathing fumes though).
I'd love to put an H6 in an R and race it, if only someone could come up with a dry sump solution for the 30 or 36.

[Hobby Racer]

Purely for racing? Many of the tracks I frequent for track days, have sound limits. Any thoughts about mufflers?

Purely racing and no sound limits at the tracks I go to.


Looking great! If you get a chance, could you get a picture of the headers a little further back, with the perspective of say from the firewall to the axles?

Not sure what your looking for? Can you explain it differently, maybe I'm being dense. :confused:


Very Nice work and a unique approach! Are the exhausts going to exit thru the humps? Now that's novel! (You may be breathing fumes though).

They will exit through the Mechie hump vents, so you won't see the pipes. Talked about this in a previous posts and the consensus is that the R does not suffer from the back flow issue that the S does with its high windshield. I'll know for sure next spring!


I'd love to put an H6 in an R and race it, if only someone could come up with a dry sump solution for the 30 or 36.

I'm hoping I don't need a DS. The EZ36 holds 8.2 quarts of oil in stock trim. With my external cooler and Accusump I'm at 10 quarts! I have equipped pressure sensors before and after the Accusump so I can monitor the pressures and know if the oil pickup is sucking air BEFORE the engine loses oil pressure while the Accusump if supplementing the prerssure . I won't know for sure until I can get some data logs and check the oil pressure differentials. I do have a DS system planned out if I see any pressure loss before the Accusump.

[flynntuna]

Sorry John, I'm not the best in composing questions. But a picture is worth a thousand words right? The attached picture shows the the perspective I'm asking for. A photo from the firewall to the rear hubs.

[Hobby Racer]

I'll try to get one tomorrow.

[STiPWRD]

They will exit through the Mechie hump vents, so you won't see the pipes. Talked about this in a previous posts and the consensus is that the R does not suffer from the back flow issue that the S does with its high windshield. I'll know for sure next spring!
Are you concerned about the air pressure being greater outside the vents such that it may force the exhaust gases into the engine bay? Or are you going to make some sort of exhaust shroud? Also, wouldn't the exhaust pretty much cook those vents and the fiberglass they're attached to?

[Hobby Racer]

Are you concerned about the air pressure being greater outside the vents such that it may force the exhaust gases into the engine bay? Or are you going to make some sort of exhaust shroud? Also, wouldn't the exhaust pretty much cook those vents and the fiberglass they're attached to?

I plan to seal off the exhaust to the bottom of the vents with an aluminum box. The air rushing over the vents should draw the exhaust out as well. Not sure about the heat cooking the aluminum, guess I'll find out :D

[Hobby Racer]

Sorry John, I'm not the best in composing questions. But a picture is worth a thousand words right? The attached picture shows the the perspective I'm asking for. A photo from the firewall to the rear hubs.

@flynntuna - I sent the headers off to be ceramic coated, I'll get you the picture you asked for when they return.

[flynntuna]

No hurry John, quick question though. What size turnbuckle did you use for your altenator?

[Hobby Racer]

No hurry John, quick question though. What size turnbuckle did you use for your altenator?

I used an aluminum swedged 3/8-24 panhard/radius rod, 4 In.

Here is a list of what I used.


M&W Racing Aluminum Swedged 3/8-24 Panhard/Radius Rod, 4 In. Length (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Aluminum-Swedged-Rods-3-8-24-Threads,5891.html?sku=910351-4)
Steel Jam Nuts, 3/8 Inch-24 Left Hand NF Fine Thread, Pack/6 (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Steel-Jam-Nuts-3-8-Inch-24-NF-Fine-Thread-Pack-6,22788.html?sku=1756043-LH)
Steel Jam Nuts, 3/8 Inch-24 Right Hand NF Fine Thread, Pack/6 (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Steel-Jam-Nuts-3-8-Inch-24-NF-Fine-Thread-Pack-6,22788.html?sku=1756043-RH)
QA1 CMR5-6 C Series Rod End, Carbon Steel, 2-Piece (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/QA1-CMR5-6-C-Series-Rod-End-Carbon-Steel-2-Piece-Each,261187.html)
QA1 CML5-6 C Series Rod End, Carbon Steel, 2-Piece (https://www.speedwaymotors.com/QA1-CML5-6-C-Series-Rod-End-Carbon-Steel-2-Piece-Each,261097.html)

[flynntuna]

Thanks John:)

[Hobby Racer]

While my headers are out being ceramic coated I thought I would start working on some of my aero ideas.

One of the problems with the rear wing is that it generally sits behind the rear roll bar and the disturbed air reduces the wing's effectiveness. You can raise the wing above the bar, but that makes the wing sit quite high. I remember a post a while back that suggested creating an ideal airfoil (tear drop shape) around the roll bar to smooth the air flow. This is a strut cover for an ultralite's landing gear. It's the perfect size for our roll bar tubing!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75977&d=1509062442


If you slit the trailing edge, it will slip over the bar easily. I plan the secure the airfoil to the roll bar using flush mount rivits. Then wrap the airfoil with the same carbon fiber vinyl car wrap I used on the interior panels. That will seal up the slit I made on the trailing edge and presto, a functional fairing that should smooth out the air going back to the wing!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75978&d=1509062459

What do you think?

[DanielsDM]

Very cool. I plan on doing something similar that also wraps around the corner and down to the body, like most sports racers have (e.i. Radical, Norma). I recommend not drilling holes in the main hoop. I'm thinking of some kind of internal clamp, the shell rivets to the clamp which has a bolt behind the bar. The shell then has a hole to access and remove the bolt. I haven't drawn any of this up yet so just thinking out loud.
Where did you get the strut cover?

[Hobby Racer]

Very cool. I plan on doing something similar that also wraps around the corner and down to the body, like most sports racers have (e.i. Radical, Norma). I recommend not drilling holes in the main hoop. I'm thinking of some kind of internal clamp, the shell rivets to the clamp which has a bolt behind the bar. The shell then has a hole to access and remove the bolt. I haven't drawn any of this up yet so just thinking out loud.
Where did you get the strut cover?

I found the strut streamline fairings here (http://www.uflyit.com/Improved%203to1%20Profile.htm). How were you planning the wrap the fairing around the corners?

[DanielsDM]

Thanks for the source on fairings. I plan on using foam and making a mold, lay up fiberglass, for the vertical and corner sections. Could use the strut fairing for the horizontal and rivet it to the corner/vertical uprights pieces. Maybe only need the clamps in the vertical pieces.

[Sgt.Gator]

I'm going to use the fairings too on my 818R. I agree with DanielsDM about not drilling the main hoop for rivets. Most sanctioning bodies don't allow you to drill the cage, and especially the main hoop. However, you can weld small tabs to the cage and hoops that you can then rivet on to.

DanielsDM if you make up a set of corner sections I'll buy four of them (I'm building a front hoop too). I'll bet some other R racers will want them too.
I hate doing fiberglass work!

[JB91710]

You have a Lift! No fair! ;)

[RetroRacing]

I'm in as well. We were/are trying to make a two piece that just clamps on, countersunk bolt into treaded insert on either side of the hoop to "clamp" the fairing in place. We foresee there being three sections required, left side down curve, right side down curve, then straight section for top and sides. cut to fit, mold with two holes to "pin" the joints and keep them in line. We have a plastics extruder local that we may want to ask about creating the die if others are interested as well.

[Hobby Racer]

Instead of putting in the FFR front door vents, I decided to tilt the doors inward instead. This will give me the same if not more area for venting the high pressure air that builds up in the front wheel wells and I think it will look nicer. I cut 2 inches off the front of the doors and tapered them back so that no material comes off the rear section of the doors, like a wedge. you can see it in the cut line pictured below.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76152&d=1509399626

Here is a picture with the door set in place on the side panel. Note how much closer the door sits to the frame. When the front fenders are mounted there is a large opening between the door and the fender that air can escape from. I plan on putting in some mesh so debris kicked off the tires does not mar up the doors.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76153&d=1509399632

Since I have coolant and oil lines mounted in the side pods, I cut out some holes to allow air to pass through the side pods and help cool things down. This will also increase the air flow / pressure in the engine bay and should help combat the heat issue 818's have. These will also have protective mesh added.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76151&d=1509399621

As others have done, I increased the depth of the rear side scopes 1.5 inches to take in more air. After I fiberglass up the slits down the body I can cut out the main vent area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76150&d=1509399616

I have a very innovative idea for capturing the air from the side vents and routing it where I need it in the engine bay :cool: stay tuned for details!

[alpine227]

Popcorn ready

[RetroRacing]

We did the same to our doors, cut just about the same as you did, subtle but effective. We gained an inch I think. We also shimmed the front fender up at the base of the rear, where it attaches to the top of the sidepod. This makes it bow out when you hold down the top rear corner of the fender, and, it makes the lip of the wheel arch flare out a little, giving you more wheel clearance. We only did a half inch, made a big difference.

[Hobby Racer]

We did the same to our doors, cut just about the same as you did, subtle but effective. We gained an inch I think. We also shimmed the front fender up at the base of the rear, where it attaches to the top of the sidepod. This makes it bow out when you hold down the top rear corner of the fender, and, it makes the lip of the wheel arch flare out a little, giving you more wheel clearance. We only did a half inch, made a big difference.

Great tip! I will try that.

[DanielsDM]

I like the door trimming and vented side pod ideas. Thanks.

[flynntuna]

John, what type of reducer did you use to connect the 1.5" coolant tube to the 1" coolant tube coming from the engine?

[Hobby Racer]

John, what type of reducer did you use to connect the 1.5" coolant tube to the 1" coolant tube coming from the engine?

That was hard to find! Ended up getting them on eBay.

HPS 4" Black 1" > 1.5" (25mm > 38mm) 4Ply Silicone 90 Degree Elbow Reducer Hose
76381

[ben1272]

CAn you take a shot of the door-fender gap from the rear of the car? I am curious how it looks. On my 818S, I have tried to keep that gap as large as I can from a styling standpoint but have always thought it shoule be a larger more intentional gap. Kinda of like on a ferrari F40:

76404

Fun fact: Did you all know that a ferrari F40 weighs about 3000lbs? Our 818's weigh ~2000lbs with a power plant capable of making the same horsepower as the F40 (about 470hp). That is a humbling thought. (please feel free to check my facts....I think I got them about right). Nice link to a good article about an F40 with some nice photos.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/05/an-afternoon-with-a-legend/

[Hobby Racer]

CAn you take a shot of the door-fender gap from the rear of the car? I am curious how it looks.

I'll get a pic when the body parts are back on the car. I took them off to work on the fiberglass modifications.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

CAn you take a shot of the door-fender gap from the rear of the car? I am curious how it looks. On my 818S, I have tried to keep that gap as large as I can from a styling standpoint but have always thought it shoule be a larger more intentional gap. Kinda of like on a ferrari F40:


This is my gap. I ran a straight edge from the fender to the door.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76409&d=1509835913

[Mitch Wright]

764777647876477
I did the same thing to my doors. I use Blade tape on the leading edge of the doors and body work, works great.

[Hobby Racer]

CAn you take a shot of the door-fender gap from the rear of the car? I am curious how it looks.

Here are some pics with the slimmed down doors set in place. I ended up with a large opening to vent high pressure air from the wheel wells!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76562&d=1510332927

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76563&d=1510332933

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76564&d=1510332938

[turbomacncheese]

Whoa. That's a lot of space!

[mikeb75]

That looks fantastic! I may be working on retrofitting my doors.

[Hobby Racer]

Just got these back from Swain Tech today. I had them coated with their White Lightning ceramic coating. They came out great I think.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77194&d=1511823502

Here are some pics with them installed in the car.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77192&d=1511823489

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77191&d=1511823481

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77190&d=1511823474

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77189&d=1511823461

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77188&d=1511823456



I'm going to try to start the motor for the first time tomorrow, fingers crossed :D

[Hobby Racer]

A couple of more pics.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77187&d=1511823451

This is a bit fuzzy but its a good angle from underneath.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77193&d=1511823496

[Sgt.Gator]

I love this build!
I wish we had a dry sump solution for this engine. I've been all over the design and can't figure one out without spending a boatload of money. I'm sure you're aware of what happened to the Subaru EZ 30R mid-engined track day car on NASIOC, the Carma Wolf. https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2494976

If you can make this engine last for a full race season I'll be starting on the same build next year!

[flynntuna]

the headers look amazing, thanks for the pictures. :cool: I can only hope to build my car to the level of quality you are building your car.

[Scargo]

I love this build!
I wish we had a dry sump solution for this engine. I've been all over the design and can't figure one out without spending a boatload of money. ...
I thought I saw a Dailey Engineering DS setup for it. Seems it is hard to justify since the EJ25's do so well (if built properly).

[Sgt.Gator]

I thought I saw a Dailey Engineering DS setup for it. Seems it is hard to justify since the EJ25's do so well (if built properly).

The one I'm aware of is the EG33. As far as I know, no one makes one for the EZ30 series.

BTW, as of this moment the Dailey website is hacked and will prompt you to download the Chrome Extension Font if you use Chrome. Don't do it!

[Hobby Racer]

Well, motor did not start today. I think the ignition is 360 degrees out of phase (firing on the exhaust stroke). I'll debug it tomorrow.

One thing is for sure, it is going to be loud! The few times it backfired I almost jumped out of my skin. :eek:

[DSR-3]

'looking great! Thanks for posting, and good luck with the start-up!

[alpine227]

Factory ECU shouldn't be 360 degrees off unless your coil packs are swapped or you installed the timing chain with the timing marks way off. The 36-2-2-2 crank wheel determines crank position and the cam sensor identifies the engine phase for the ecu. Worth verifying your sensor wires didn't get flipped making the ecu read the opposite edge of the wave signal. I had an issue with mine figured it out when I swapped from falling edge to rising edge for my crank signal.

[Hobby Racer]

Factory ECU shouldn't be 360 degrees off unless your coil packs are swapped or you installed the timing chain with the timing marks way off. The 36-2-2-2 crank wheel determines crank position and the cam sensor identifies the engine phase for the ecu. Worth verifying your sensor wires didn't get flipped making the ecu read the opposite edge of the wave signal. I had an issue with mine figured it out when I swapped from falling edge to rising edge for my crank signal.

Not using the factory ECU (it does not work with a manual trans). I'm having to build the tune and setup from scratch for the standalone ECU. The motor has never been opened up so the chains, etc. should be fine. I could have flipped sensor wires when splicing into the factory harness, I'll be checking all those things today and try again.

[alpine227]

Okay are you running Megasquirt? If so might start just using the crank sensor in wasted spark coil on plug no cam sensor yet to get it running. Also the injector and spark wires need to be run in the fireing order not cylinder number. The EZ has several cam sensors for the avcs feedback and maybe your tied into the wrong one for engine phase.

[Hobby Racer]

Okay are you running Megasquirt?
Yes, MS3 Pro 1st generation


If so might start just using the crank sensor in wasted spark coil on plug no cam sensor yet to get it running.
Just tried that and the motor runs fine, so its definitely the cam phasing as I had thought.


The EZ has several cam sensors for the avcs feedback and maybe your tied into the wrong one for engine phase.
I used the intake cam from the same bank as cylinder #1 (passenger side if seated in the 818). Is that not the correct cam to use?

[alpine227]

My first gen uses the one off the back of the right side head. I had to fidle with the input capture and wiring to get it to full sync. When cranking in full senquential cop it will show full rpm sync. Also I believe you need to run the 36-2-2-2 (non vvt) as the vvt code is coded for ejs that use the avcs feedback sensor 4-1 instead of the 4-2 cam sensor so it expects a different trigger wheel pattern.

[Hobby Racer]

My first gen uses the one off the back of the right side head. I had to fidle with the input capture and wiring to get it to full sync. When cranking in full senquential cop it will show full rpm sync. Also I believe you need to run the 36-2-2-2 (non vvt) as the vvt code is coded for ejs that use the avcs feedback sensor 4-1 instead of the 4-2 cam sensor so it expects a different trigger wheel pattern.

I had to add 12V pullups to all the cam sensors to get them to work. I am trying to use the 36-2-2-2 VVT code. Didn't think to try the non vvt code. You are running a EZ30D (first gen) that does not have VVT right?

I've heard the 36-2-2-2 mode is intended to work with a 2 tooth wheel and the Subaru 36-2-2-2 VVT mode with a three tooth cam wheel. My engine uses a 3 tooth cam wheel.

[alpine227]

The vvt code was developed soley to use only one cam sensor for phasing and avcs feedback on avcs ej257 and 207 which use a 4-1 tooth wheel instead of the 4-2(2 tooth) cam wheel on the non avcs ej205. The ez30 both first and second gen use the 36-2-2-2 wheels and 3 tooth cam wheels for phasing the second gen also has the avcs feed back angle sensors. The cam sensor should be a hall effect sensor and the crank on mine at least is a VR sensor and I needed a 2.2k shunt across the signle wites and a 10k inline with + signal wire as I would loose sync at mid rpm and misfire like crazy. The cam sensor should already have a 12v square wave form output from the sensor and should be wired like hall effect sensor.

[alpine227]

The three tooth cam wheel the vvt reference is actually a 4-1wheel with marks at 90 degrees and one missing tooth for phasing and angle feedback. where the ez is a 3 tooth wheel with makes at 120 degrees no missing teeth for phasing.

[Hobby Racer]

The three tooth cam wheel the vvt reference is actually a 4-1wheel with marks at 90 degrees and one missing tooth for phasing and angle feedback. where the ez is a 3 tooth wheel with makes at 120 degrees no missing teeth for phasing.

If the ez cam wheel does not have a missing tooth for phasing how does the MS unit figure out the timing to run full sequential and COP?

[alpine227]

With the cam rotating half the speed of the crank the Ms expects a cam trigger event on or near one of the missing teeth if I recall during the ignition phase for clynder 1, I tried to do some digging for a trigger log of the events as I couldn't remember off the top of my head but failed. My engine is out of the car for a rebuild due to milage before it gets boost so I confirmed no missing teeth and three evenly spaced marks on the cam.

[Hobby Racer]

With the cam rotating half the speed of the crank the Ms expects a cam trigger event on or near one of the missing teeth if I recall during the ignition phase for clynder 1

Makes sense. I looked at the cam patterns for both the ez30D and the ez36R and the patterns look identical for the intake cam nearest cylinder 1. The intake cam for the other bank is out of phase by 180 degrees (relative to the cam rotation, not the crank). I may have wired my cam sensor to the wrong intake cam. I will check that today.

Thanks, fingers crossed.

[flynntuna]

Got my fingers crossed too.
A lot of this conversation is making me nervous, this part of the build is the most difficult for me. Fortunately I have a couple of friends, from both me and my son's that will help me thru it.

[alpine227]

It took me a few attempts switching signal wires and input captures until I had full rpm sync cranking. I turned off the fuel pump while I tried different combinations. Once I had full sync I turned the pump on and fired up full senquential cop.

[Hobby Racer]

It took me a few attempts switching signal wires and input captures until I had full rpm sync cranking. I turned off the fuel pump while I tried different combinations. Once I had full sync I turned the pump on and fired up full senquential cop.

That's one of the things that has me stumped. I get full RPM sync while cranking with full sequential COP but it won't fire up. Backfires spits and coughs though.

I have started a thread over on the msextra forums and sent an email to diyautotune for help.

[Wayne Presley]

Set it up as wasted COP to see if that helps. Also the ignition goes A,B,C,D,E,F matched to 1–6–3–2–5–4

[Hobby Racer]

Set it up as wasted COP to see if that helps. Also the ignition goes A,B,C,D,E,F matched to 1–6–3–2–5–4

Yup, the engine runs on wasted COP. One of the first checks I did. Still no ideas on what to look for next?

[alpine227]

You might try switching to tooth logger in the ignition menu instead of 36-2-2-2 confirm you have a cam signal that gives 3 pulses per 720 degrees of rotation. I know the first gen uses a 3 wire hall sensor that should output a 12v square wave no pull-up used on ECU side for cam. I am not 100% sure worth checking to see if the sensor is 2 or 3 wire. Next is what fuel settings are you running. I am out to training and don't have access to my tuning laptop but can look at the msq on my phone (msdroid app) if you want to post it up. Also if you could post the tooth log.

[craigfree]

When I wired up my ez30r I got very lucky that haltech followed convection and declared front left cylinder as #1. Subaru defines cylinder #1 as the front right cylinder. If you made the same assumption I did, and mega squirt followed Subaru, you will be out of phase.

[Hobby Racer]

You might try switching to tooth logger in the ignition menu instead of 36-2-2-2 confirm you have a cam signal that gives 3 pulses per 720 degrees of rotation.
Yup, checked that with tooth, composite and engine loggers. 77351



I know the first gen uses a 3 wire hall sensor that should output a 12v square wave no pull-up used on ECU side for cam. I am not 100% sure worth checking to see if the sensor is 2 or 3 wire.
3-wire hall sensor that needs a 12V pullup. tried it both ways and only get a signal with the pullup.



Next is what fuel settings are you running. I am out to training and don't have access to my tuning laptop but can look at the msq on my phone (msdroid app) if you want to post it up. Also if you could post the tooth log.
To make it easier, all the logs and tunes are posted on the msextra forum. If you would not mind can you take a look and tell me is you see anything weird? The last post has the best tune and log files.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=67870

I'm thankful for any help / advise you can come up with, this is starting to drive me nuts :(

[Hobby Racer]

When I wired up my ez30r I got very lucky that haltech followed convection and declared front left cylinder as #1. Subaru defines cylinder #1 as the front right cylinder. If you made the same assumption I did, and mega squirt followed Subaru, you will be out of phase.

I made sure I used the front right cylinder as #1 and the front right intake cam as the phase cam. I even tried switching to the front left cam for phase with no luck.

Also, since it runs fine when I switch to wasted COP it proves the crank timing is correct since that only relies on the crank pulses and not the cam.

Just curious, does the ez30R cam sensors need 12V pullups and do you have the AVCS working?

[Hobby Racer]

When I wired up my ez30r I got very lucky that haltech followed convection and declared front left cylinder as #1. Subaru defines cylinder #1 as the front right cylinder. If you made the same assumption I did, and mega squirt followed Subaru, you will be out of phase.

Craig, just so we are clear, when you say front left you are looking from the transmission forward to the crank pulley, i.e. drivers side when installed in the 818 right?

[Wayne Presley]

Passenger side front is cylinder one. If it runs wasted COP but not COP and is in full synch, you have the wrong cylinder as #1

[Wayne Presley]

Also un plug the AVCS solenoids until you get it running well.

[Hobby Racer]

Passenger side front is cylinder one.

Yup, just wanted to be sure we are on the same page. That is how I have it setup.


If it runs wasted COP but not COP and is in full synch, you have the wrong cylinder as #1

I double, triple checked the firing order. Ran each coil in test mode to be sure. They are wired in the correct firing order. Full sync for wasted COP is only based on the crank signal, if I had the cylinders wired wrong it would not run in wasted spark mode either as the wrong cylinders would be firing during the compression stroke.


Also un plug the AVCS solenoids until you get it running well.

I did unplug the AVCS solenoids in case they were moving the cams around and causing problems.

[Wayne Presley]

OK is it going full synch in COP?

[Hobby Racer]

OK is it going full synch in COP?

According to the composite log it is. And the full sync indicator is on in Tuner Studio while cranking.

[Wayne Presley]

Swap the paired coil wiring as a test.

[Hobby Racer]

Swap the paired coil wiring as a test.

Not sure what you mean? These are single pencil coil packs not a paired wasted coil pack.

[Wayne Presley]

swap the trigger wires between 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6 and see if it runs.

[Hobby Racer]

swap the trigger wires between 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6 and see if it runs.

I understand now. That will not be easy as it requires cutting and splicing the harness.

Wouldn't switching the firing order in Tuner Studio to 2-5-4-1-6-3 have the same effect without cutting the harness?

[Wayne Presley]

its easy, do it at the MS3 connector. lift up the red lock and pull the wires out and swap them, push the red lock back down and retry.

[craigfree]

Craig, just so we are clear, when you say front left you are looking from the transmission forward to the crank pulley, i.e. drivers side when installed in the 818 right?

Yes, I have front driver as cylinder number 1, and home on driver's side cam.

I can verify later whether I'm pulling up or not, but iitc I am.

If you're running in wasted spark, it only needs crank timing, so something regarding your home timing is screwed up. Check diagnostics while cranking to see if your cam timing is registering.

I'm running avls and avcs (intake only on 30r).

[Hobby Racer]

If you're running in wasted spark, it only needs crank timing, so something regarding your home timing is screwed up. Check diagnostics while cranking to see if your cam timing is registering.


I've run many crank and cam logs. the cam is registering pulses and in they appear to be in the correct location relative to the crank pulses. That is what is so confusing.

[alpine227]

The firing order in tuner studio pertains calculating fuel trims and soes not assign it to an output

[Hobby Racer]

The firing order in tuner studio pertains calculating fuel trims and soes not assign it to an output

Right, I do remember reading that. I have so many things swimming around in my head right now trying to figure this out.

[Hobby Racer]

its easy, do it at the MS3 connector. lift up the red lock and pull the wires out and swap them, push the red lock back down and retry.

This is my next test. I have to completely disassemble my interior as the MS unit is buried in the center console under a bunch of other wiring!

If this works, it would mean that the left side front cylinder is really #1. How can that be?

[flynntuna]

I'm confused, every where I look I find that #1 cyl. Is in front passenger side.

[alpine227]

Are you on sequential coil on plug getting full sync? If you are on wasted spark it will show sync even if the cam is not synced.

[alpine227]

That is cyl #1 however the cam on the even number side could have a mark to indicate power stroke for #1. Ej205 gets engine phase information from even number intake cam.

[Hobby Racer]

Are you on sequential coil on plug getting full sync? If you are on wasted spark it will show sync even if the cam is not synced.

Yes, I get full sync with full sequential and COP but it only runs when when wasted COP is selected. Really looks like it is 360 degrees out of phase. Wayne's suggestion of swapping the coil pairs will prove that theory out. But if it does work with the swapped coil pairs it does not explain why. I re-ran the MegaSquirt coil and injector tests today and they are all firing in the correct firing order (1-6-3-2-5-4)

Here is screen shot of the composite log using full sequential and COP. It show no sync loss.
77391

[alpine227]

If you run it wasted cop and full sequential fuel would it should than fire the pair of coils in both power and exhaust stroke and require full rpm sync and would be easier than swap wires. I am not 100% on this test just something that popped in my head.

[Hobby Racer]

If you run it wasted cop and full sequential fuel would it should than fire the pair of coils in both power and exhaust stroke and require full rpm sync and would be easier than swap wires. I am not 100% on this test just something that popped in my head.

Yup, I've done that test and it runs fine because, as you say, it is firing the coils on both power and exhaust stroke. That is why I believe it is 360 degrees out of phase.

I am going to experiment more tomorrow with syncing on the LH cam as looking at the pattern trace it is 360 degree out of phase with the RH cam that I am syncing with now.

[alpine227]

I am interested in seeing if they have a multi toothed wheel on the left side head seems like it would only need one tooth for avcs angle feed back. Bit if it also is a 3 tooth wheel it would likely be 360(crank) degrees off from the right side.

[Hobby Racer]

The LH and RH intake cams have the same 3 tooth wheels, 360 degrees out of phase.

[EODTech87]

That would make sense as to why it's not working right. The LH intake cam suppose to be the Main Cam not the RH Intake cam. One would assume the main cam would be paired to cylinder #1 but that seems to not be the case.

It would make sense though as my EJ205 uses the driver side intake cam as the camshaft trigger while cylinder 1 is on the RH side.

Craig actually said something about this yesterday but I missed it until just now.

[craigfree]

When I wired up my haltech, the setup in the engine selection told me which cam to set as home. Check if megasquirt does anything similar.

Wait, can't you just switch which cam is home in the tuning software?

[EODTech87]

I'm pretty sure you can.

Ignition Settingss -> Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder -> Change Cam Input to Digital Frequency In 2

[alpine227]

would advise to try every configuration of wiring on sensors, coils, inverted cam, rising and falling edge both 36-2-2-2 and 36-2-2-2 VVT. At some point the two codes branched apart and the vvt and I would assume some development of the stafard code may not appear in the VVT which again was developed for avcs ej2xx engines that did not have the 4-2 cam wheel.

[Hobby Racer]

When I wired up my haltech, the setup in the engine selection told me which cam to set as home. Check if megasquirt does anything similar.
Nope, nothing to clue you in as to what cam to use. Like in Star Wars your supposed to use the force :mad:


I'm pretty sure you can.

Ignition Settingss -> Ignition Options/Wheel Decoder -> Change Cam Input to Digital Frequency In 2
Yes, I have been using that setting to switch back and fourth, not getting any luck.


would advise to try every configuration of wiring on sensors, coils, inverted cam, rising and falling edge both 36-2-2-2 and 36-2-2-2 VVT. At some point the two codes branched apart and the vvt and I would assume some development of the stafard code may not appear in the VVT which again was developed for avcs ej2xx engines that did not have the 4-2 cam wheel.
At this point I have tried all combinations of wheel decoders (non vvt and VVT) and triggering cams (both left and right). I have even resorted to reading the source code. The "36-2-2-2" and "Subaru 36-2-2-2 VVT" wheel decoders use the same 36-2-2-2 source code, they only differ in the ignition code used. From what I read you can use either when your cylinder count is 6. If you have a cylinder count of 4 (like the EJ's) the code uses a different cam pattern.

At this point I believe Wayne is right. I have the wrong cylinder #1. Not because I wired it incorrectly, but because the MS code wants the left front cylinder to be #1. My guess is that since the MS code is based on the ez30d first gen's cam, the ez36d (and maybe the ez30d second gen) cam is out of phase by 360 crank degrees with the ez30d first gen. This would completely explain my situation and all the test data I have.

I know of no others that are running an ez36d on MegaSquirt using full sequential and COP so I may be the first one to encounter this. So if I re-pin my ECU to swap the injector and spark trigger wires so everything works, I'll have to pay close attention and swap them back if the MS team ever updates the code to take this into account :rolleyes:

[alpine227]

If it does fix the issue worth reaching back out to James on the forum and get everyone you know to comment on your thread on the Ms forum how him fixing code for the ez36 would benefit thier build as well....

[Hobby Racer]

If it does fix the issue worth reaching back out to James on the forum and get everyone you know to comment on your thread on the Ms forum how him fixing code for the ez36 would benefit thier build as well....

Yes, I most likely will assuming it works. I'm not sure how they could fix it without breaking the ez30d first gen installs though. They might be able to branch the code based on engine size.

For example:

if (engine_size > 3300 cc's)

do ez36d stuff
else

do ez30d or eg33 stuff
end

The problem might come if the ez30d second gen cams follow the same pattern as the ez36d (which I belief they do), then they have to figure out how to tell them apart in the code.

[alpine227]

Yup, Or use the vvt code for second gen and ez36. I know that haltech had to develop the code for the ez36 when mighty car mods did the "Gramps" build, I wonder if they previously had success with the second generation ez30 if not would prove your right about the difference between the two generations haveing different triggers.

[Hobby Racer]

Finally got my coil pair wires swapped at the ECU plug. Thanks Wayne for that tip, a lot easier than cutting and re-splicing wires. The engine runs perfectly using full sequential and COP, so now I have to try to get James over at MSExtra to re-visit the "Subaru 36-2-2-2 VVT" wheel decoder to change the fuel and ignition triggers to 360 degrees out from their current position.

I will update this thread with the results from the MegaSquirt developers. I know a couple people are hoping to run these motors, possibly on MegaSquirt ECUs (I'm looking at you flynntuna ;) ).

[flynntuna]

Congrats,. But... like they say on the forum, if there's no video it didn't happen;)
Not sure yet whether or not I'm going to use Mega-Squirt or Haltech , though I'm leaning toward Haltech.
My son went to school with a friend of his whose family owns a speed shop. They tune Mega-Squirt, but I also have a friend who is a Haltech dealer. I need to make that decision in a month or so. :pI

[DSR-3]

Yea, congrats on the progress! I just got the my DBW working last night, and I'm about to sort the position sensors and cam stuff.* If I had an exhaust I would be starting/go-karting soon!
*EZ30R, Haltech 2500. So far I'm pretty happy with the Haltech system, features, S/W, etc. My first aftermarket ECU install.

[Hobby Racer]

Yea, congrats on the progress! I just got the my DBW working last night, and I'm about to sort the position sensors and cam stuff.* If I had an exhaust I would be starting/go-karting soon!
*EZ30R, Haltech 2500. So far I'm pretty happy with the Haltech system, features, S/W, etc. My first aftermarket ECU install.

I was familiar with MegaSquirt as I put it my FFR Roadster. If I was to do it again I think I would opt for the Haltech unit as well, mostly for the DBW support.

[alpine227]

The Aussie ford 4.0 barra motor cable throttle body supposidly direct swap to ez30 second gen. Glad to hear it's up and running full senquential. Are all the cam sensors hall effect? If not I have had good luck with jbperformance VR conditioner board.

[Hobby Racer]

The Aussie ford 4.0 barra motor cable throttle body supposidly direct swap to ez30 second gen. Glad to hear it's up and running full senquential. Are all the cam sensors hall effect? If not I have had good luck with jbperformance VR conditioner board.

All the cam sensors are hall effect and getting solid signals. I currently have a DIY DBW controller board driving the factory throttle body but it lacks ECU idle control, still working on a solution for that.

[alpine227]

Throttle body spacer with iacv flange on it?

[Hobby Racer]

Throttle body spacer with iacv flange on it?

That could work but I am working on a circuit to take the MS IAC stepper position value from the CAN bus and drive the DBW throttle in a small range (0-10% throttle).

[Sgt.Gator]

All your H6 818 needs now is a chain drive AWD system so you can keep up with Andy Forrest!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLfkcm-0EA0

[alpine227]

Well I left my tuning computer in the garage and apparently Sub zero temps and I assume condensation destroyed the cooling fan so it shuts down after about 20secs of operation. But I had a brief thought of adjusting your trigger offset in tuner studio by 360 degrees instead of rewiring the coils.