Jazzman’s #8745 "Flip Top" Build

[Jazzman]

When I got up yesterday morning, I knew it would be a good day, but I never imagined how good. We were staying in a lovely bed-and-breakfast in Plymouth, Mass. Not a bad way to begin, but yesterday was special because my wife and I visited the Factory Five Factory in nearby Wareham. David (aka "Mad Dog) gave us a great tour. Even my wife was impressed. Their commitment to quality and service was incredible. We saw the whole place, even got to see EdwardB’s 20th Anniversary car all packaged up and ready to go.

After the tour, we sat down with Dan Golub. We worked through my build sheet, my goals, and all my questions. He patiently answered them all, even though I am pretty sure he has answered these same questions a thousand times!! I asked when he thought the next big sale was going to be, expecting “sometime this winter”. “About 2 hours” I was told!! He asked me if I wanted to know what the sale was going to be. “Sure”. Dave Smith told Dan to figure out a way to sell only five more Roadsters with all the same high quality special components as the 20th Anniversary Model, but without the special badging, the special 20th Anniversary gauge set, and without the special powder coated frame and engine bay parts. Since I really struggled with whether to buy the 20th Anniversary Model, this was a great opportunity of a second chance. Well, I am sure you can figure the end of the story – I jumped at the chance to get far more than I ever had planned at a very significant discount. He even threw in the IRS Center Section and Spindles (yes, the new take-offs that they bought from MPS!!) I certainly did not expect to place this order now. I fully expected to wait until early next year to take advantage of the next big winter sale. Oh well, I haven't stopped smiling yet! Delivery is slated for mid-October.

You need to understand that while I have been dreaming of building a Roadster for over two decades, and planning it for at least two years, I am not really a "gear head". I am a Financial Planner by trade, a carpenter by choice, and a musician at heart. I restored a 1967 Mercury Cougar over 25 years ago, but never got very deep into the mechanical side. I paid others to do that part. However, I have always had a great desire to get in and learn every nut and bolt on my car. And now, I will.

Jazzman’s MKIV Not-Quite-a-20th Anniversary Build Plan
The Goal: an updated reinterpretation of the classic AC Cobra. A modern reinterpretation of the 1965 AC 427 Cobra, incorporating current technology and engineering that improves performance, safety, convenience, comfort, and reliability. Primarily built for street-use and cruising. Must make the wife happy: i.e. noise is an issue!! Build the car Carroll Shelby might have built if he had access to our modern technology.


Kit – Factory Five Racing – MK4 Roadster De-Badged 20th Anniversary Complete Kit.
Engine – Coyote 5.0L
Transmission – 5 Speed Manual, Tremec TKO-600/midshift mod., short throw shifter,

hydraulic clutch from Forte

.62 OD 5th Gear for “street” cruising at 75-80 mph
Rear Suspension / Differential – Ford 2015 Mustang GT Independent Rear Suspension with 3.55 ratio
Front Suspension - FFR Independent front suspension

Dual Adjustable Deluxe Koni Coil over Shocks

2015 Front suspension Swaybar components
Wheels – Hallibrand Replica Wheels, 18x9 front, 18x11 Rear
Exhaust – Stainless side pipes, Possible installation of race mufflers in the header area
Steering – Power steering – Ford 87-93 Ford Mustang V8, 3 turn ratio, Adjustable Heidt Valve
Brakes – Willwood deluxe brakes.
Interior –

Traditional Big & Tall Seats.

Breeze Seat mounts

FFR GPS Enabled Gauge Set

Exotic Solid Hardwood Burl dash over aluminum panel

Matching wood shift lever knob

14” Leather wrapped steering wheel

Stereo system, hidden equipment with ipad controls and blue tooth connectivity.

Steering column mounted turn signal

LED interior lighting:


 Footbox lighting


 Trunk light


 Under door lighting to light ground as you get out.


 Red Dash LED Gauge lighting

Perhaps Air conditioning/Heating
Body – Candy Apple Red or Midnight Blue Metalic with ghost stripes

Dual Chrome Roll Bars – 1.75” Breeze Automotive Bars

All LED lighting: Headlights, marker lights, turn signals.
Prepare for the future installation of the Premium soft Top
May install Hood Louvers to vent hot Arizona air.

I had originally considered attempting a tilt-front variation. However, upon reflection and wise counsel from people I trust, I decided that a man must know his own limitations. This project will have more than enough educational value and challenges for my first build. Maybe the second . . . :rolleyes: **EDIT** My, how things change!!

After our tour and big decision, we were starving. We went to The Gateway Tavern, and enjoyed the best Lobster Rolls I have ever eaten. I now had time to reflect on the morning. I really must take a moment to thank my precious bride of 27 years for her support of this decision. Without her immediate and unwavering support, I am quite sure I would not have taken this step this soon. I also must thank my many “friends” on this forum who have patiently answered my questions with great wisdom and insight: EdwardB, SkullandBones, CarlW, DaleG, David Hodgkins, 2bKing, too many others to name. Your encouragement and support have given me the confidence to undertake this daunting project. Finally, I want to thank Dave Smith (who I, sadly, did not get to meet yesterday, he was out of town) for creating this fine company. Your commitment to excellence and innovation, the culture of mutual support, permeate all those who have come in contact with you.

The next step is to receive your constructive criticism of my Build plan. As always, You are my trusted team of advisors. I look forward to your evaluation. Thus begins my Journey!

*** 8/22/2017 EDIT: ***
Table of Contents by Post Number:

Air Intake: #477
Battery Box (FFMetal in trunk) #70, #94, #167-168, #176, #604
Bell Housing: #376, #440, #458
Brake Lines: #109, #112, #123, #132, #141, #165
Brake Rotors: #97-108,
Brakes, Rear: #155, #157, #739-740, #746
Brake Bleeding: #230, #232
Body work: Begins at #184-186, #193, #196, #210, #222, #223, #234, #246-248, #254-255, #258, #262, #265, #268-275, #279-282, #285, #288, #292, #298, #327, #333, #574, #608, #627-628, #629-630, #635, #694, #714, #719, #735-736, #740, #752, #754, #770
Bolt Markings: #77, #80
Buss Bars: #170
Bumper Mounting, Front: #640-644, #649-654, #659, #669, #673
Carpet: #693, #727, #730, #760-
Clutch: #165, #364-366, #370, #375, #440, #441, #450, #453, #458
Clutch Bottom Switch: #348
Clutch, Hydraulic actuator: #453, #461-465
CV Axels: #155
Dash Board: #485, #488, #493, #501-502, #515, #519, #619
Differential: #40, #64, #137, #148
Differential Vent: #137, #148
Drive Shaft: #484
Drive Shaft Safety Loop: #181, #484
Elephant Ears (Custom Split): #320-321
Engine: #340, #352-363, #375, #434-435, #441, #442, #459, Install: #470-471, First Start: #543-558,
Engine Lift Plates: (Coyote) #480
Engine Mounts: #408, #442, #450
Exhaust Pipes: #524
Fibreglass: #236-238, #255, #292
Frame Dolly: #20
Front Hubs #71
Fuel Filter: #112, #120
Fuel Lines: #112, #120, #127-#128, #137, #159, #161, #387-392, #411, #477
Fuel Pressure Regulator: #387-392, #408
Fuel Tank: #64
Heim Joints: #78
Headers: #461
Heater Hoses: #520
Hood Fabrication: #247
Hood Latches: #315-318, #323, #327-328, #334, #598, #639, #673
Hood Scoop: #298, #751
Ignition System: #487, #497-500, #525, #538, #559
IRS: #40
Leatherwork: #692, #729
Lights: #598, #692
Master Cylinders: #58, #165, #604
Master Electrical Cut-off Switch: #169, #171-174
Paint: #592, #674-
Pedals: #58, #437, #467
Quick Jack (rear) modification: #54, #64
Radiator: #502, #507-509, #510-512, #521, #524-#533, #535-537, #539, #541-542
Reservoirs, Fluid: #121-122, #228-229, #485, #502-506, #515
Ribs (hood stiffeners): #258-259, #265, #282, #284, #288, #304
Roll Bars: #629, #635-637
Seats: #618-619
Seat Belts: #618-619, #740
Seat Heaters: #726
Sheet Metal: #64, #70, #77, #145, #149, #194, #197-199, #205-209, #487, #519, #587, #602-604, #746, #759
Shocks: #71
Side Vents: #299
Spindles, Rear: #138
Sound/Head suppression: #59
Starter: #442
Steering, Power: #85, #90, #91
Steering, Power Pump: #410-411, #510, #521, #534
Stereo/Speakers: #689, #726, #743
Sway bar (Front): #56
Sway Bar (Rear): #78, #79
Suspension, Front: #35, #49, #71, #85, #91, #94, #112
Suspension, Rear: #460
“Teeth” and “Jaws”: #246, #248, #289, #302, #324, #333
ThermoTec: #59
Tilt Front Hinge system: #211-217, #220, #227, #235, #285, #306-308, #501, #607, #659
Tires: #220, #230
Towing: #624
Transmission: #340, #362, #519
Truss Fabrication and mounting: #196, #226 #235, #262, #299, #302, #608, #746, #751
Trunk modification (Dropped Trunk): #85, #86, #87, #94, #145
Trunk Supports, Hidden: #693
Windshield: #758
Wiring: #152-156, #175, #180, #345-346, #367, #393, #409-411, #417-418, #421-433, #436, #441, #458, #477, #480-481, #497-500, #519-522, #525, #538, #541-542, #566-568, #580, #609-616, #659, #662-668, #692, #739, #743, #747

So what would I do differently? LET'S SEE!! (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28512-So-What-Did-I-do-Wrong-Lessons-for-First-Time-Builders)

Stopped at Page 20, Post #770

[edwardb]

Congratulations on your purchase and upcoming build! Sounds like you got a great deal, and your build plan sounds awesome. And thanks too for the picture of my new 20th anniversary build sitting in the rack ready to go! It will be in our trailer on it's way back to Michigan next week. :cool:

[rickscobra]

Hey Jazzman, First off, congratulations on taking the big step. The only bad part of the journey is now looking you in the face, namely, waiting for your kit to arrive. I am also one of the "Lucky Five" who is going nutso waiting for my kit. I will pick it up near the end of September. Living in Maine, I will not venting off any heat coming from the engine.
I am thinking we need to come up with a name for the "almost a 20th Anniversary Models". How about "20th Anniversary Stealth Model".

Rick

[KDubU]

Congrats! Sound like am awesome build and a great day!

[JL1958]

How fun! Congratulations!

[2bking]

Congratulations on your order and I think your options are right on. Maybe the "Stealth 5" should get together and decide on a unique color for frame and panels so you have something special also and a set of gauges with a special logo on the dials too. Post a lot of pictures.

[Jazzman]

You see, Rick, this is why this is such a great forum!! Great Idea. Your creativity in names much better than mine. At the moment, I only know of you and I that are in this category, so I think we have a quorum. All in favor of calling them the "20th Anniversary Stealth" say Aye? All opposed? The Aye's have it. We are now the 20th Anniversary Stealth 5! As much as I would be excited to have it arrive quickly, I really am going to need every minute of the next two months to get ready. My original mental target delivery date was May of 2016!

Good idea, King, perhaps the "Stealth 5" should discuss some uniqueness that will set us apart. Rick, Build plans?

I have a lot of time and very little to do . . . no, wait, reverse that! Now out to the shop to begin the very long punch list to prepare for my new delivery.

[skullandbones]

Hi Kevin,

So happy you got that once in a lifetime deal. Being in the right place at the right time is fun. Hope we get to talk more next time but enjoyed meeting you at the "5 and diner" with the other guys.

Good luck on your build,

WEK.

[rickscobra]

Wow, Talking about a challenge. Getting the Stealth Five to agree to a common build would be near impossible. One heck of a neat idea. Perhaps we can agree on one really unique option that would ID the car as a Stealth Five. Man this is going to be a hoot. I will submit my build plan soon.

Rick

[ticopow]

If I had the money I would join your special club... I would love a stealth 5 myself. Give me 2 years or less and Ill be able to afford one. :) Congrats on the great buy, I don't see much from your order that I don't want myself! I probably won't go with the wood dash, but other than that it's very close to what I want :)

[6t8dart]

I want the 33 hot rod, but I just started on my Mk4. Maybe in a year or two...

[BobCarter]

Jazzman congratulations! I had placed my order for a complete kit prior to attending this years open house at FFR. While enroute to Wareham i received notice that the 20th Anniv. kit was available (I was sitting in the Atlanta airport). Having researched manufacturers of Cobras since 1993 (22 years) I knew FFR was for me. So, while at the airport I quickly called FFR and revised my complete kit to the Anniv. kit. I was the first to call so lucky me, I got serial number 2 (#1 is being donated by FFR to the Ohio club for their generous support and fund raising donations to Cystic Fibrosis research). Edwardb and I have shared our excitement and anxious anticipation to begin our builds. He is picking his up at FFR i must wait for delivery :-( Good luck on your build and keep us posted on your progress Im sure we will all have fun and enjoy the journey.

[carlewms]

Jazzman,

Congratulations and we look forward to lots of photos an videos as you build that thing.

Carl

[jceckard]

Dude, you described the exact car that I want to build - even down to the color (check out Stig's GTM build - he's chosen a BMW color that looks black until sunlight hits it and you see the dark blue sparkle come out - that would look mighty slick with some ghosted white (or silver) stripes). I'll be watching your build very closely.

[Jazzman]

Congratulations Bob! I will look forward to reading your build thread.

[Jazzman]

The following has no real educational value regarding building a FFR kit. I put it in only as a reminder to myself as I look back on this journey as one small step - backward!

In order to get ready for my upcoming delivery (from FFR!) I have to complete the Murphy bed that I am building for the guest room. I think it is coming along pretty well.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44293&d=1439172833

Well, lets just say that a table saw, a 1" wide stack of dado blades, and a left hand, when improperly combined is not a pleasant combination.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44292&d=1439172833


This is going to slow down the preparation process a bit!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Oh man, I can sympathize with you. Did the same to my left index and middle fingers about 20 years ago, also with a dado. Those suckers will really grab the wood and take you with it (right through the knuckle while doing so). Please don't be the dumb a$$ that I am though---10 years later I did the same two fingers :mad: My wife's response when I called her from the hospital..."Again?".

Sincerely wishing you a speedy recovery.

Jeff

[2bking]

I too can sympathize with you and feel your pain. I have a similar experience. About 5 years ago I cut the tips off my left index and middle fingers on my table saw while thinking I was being very careful. I didn't feel a thing but felt a vibration in my hand then jerked my hand away in the wrong direction allowing the blade to cut a second slice. It took three months to heal and I still have numb finger tips and different looking finger nails. I had to force myself to use the saw again. The brain didn't like it.

I hope you heal fast with every thing intact.

[ehansen007]

Bob, this sounds like a great plan and one that is fully thought out. Take your time on this one and enjoy it all the way. The build is arguably one of the best experiences. Like all things there are good days and bad days but walking by it every day and looking at it is just amazing. If you have any questions, feel free to PM us or post it here. We're here to help!

[Jazzman]

Ah, Life, thou art fickle! It has been an amazing month of ups and downs. A handful plus 1 of events, mostly less than positive, have conspired to delay the delivery of my kit. The best piece of news is that my eldest son starts his new job Monday. The downside is the he is moving 400 miles away. This exciting/intimidating life change for him has take a lot of time and focus off of other projects. The Murphy Bed is still unfinished, but is all ready for stain and finish. The garage is rearranged, new lights are installed. Electrical lines are installed. Vacuum lines are completed, air hose lines are installed. Tonight, I finally finished the Frame dolly. Thank you to whomever designed this simple dolly. (Carl, did I get this from you? or was it King? My apologies to the designer.) It works great, and is 18.5" tall.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45562&d=1442723077

While I am eager to begin, I am just as glad that delivery is not until mid November. Even with that much time, I still have a lot to do to get ready!

[rickscobra]

Good morning Bob,

I too, have completed my dolly and body buck. I will pick up my Stealth 5 on 01 October. My Forte engine will go on the dyno this coming week. Beyond excited at this point, especially with Edwards fantastic updates on his "real 20th Edition. He will b saving us a lot of time in the "figuring it out" process. I will be a frequent contributor on this forum as I start my build.

rick

[Jazzman]

Hi Rick -

Lucky you to be so close that you get the joy of picking up your car from the Factory! It's a bit too much of a drive for me, though I wish I had the free time to do it. Pictures, we need pictures of your pickup! I am also eager to hear/see your new power plant. You are going to be well ahead of me. I don't plan to order my engine until mid next year. I don't want to be stumbling over it for the next many months. I hope someday to meet Edwardb (Paul). I certainly owe him dinner for all his assistance. T-10 days for you. We all look forward to your build thread. Safe travels to you.

Kevin

[Jazzman]

It has been a long time coming, but my Roadster is complete. I received confirmation that the frame is done and the entire package is ready for delivery. Stewart Transportation is supposed to pick it up some time this week (I hope soon!!) and get it to Phoenix. I know I will likely be the last one off the truck because Stewarts home office is also in Phoenix. Oh well, what's a few more days. Now, am I ready for delivery?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47488&d=1447127954
Frame dolly done, garage floor cleaned.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47489&d=1447127955
Extra lights installed

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47490&d=1447127955
Tools organized

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47491&d=1447127956
Body Buck complete

Yep, I think I am ready to go. Now what have I missed? HMMMM.

[Jazzman]

I spoke to Jolene at Stewart Trucking. (She really is as nice as everyone says she is!) She said there are two trucks headed for Wareham, MA, but they won't be loaded and back on the road until Friday or Monday. This makes delivery just before Thanksgiving a likelihood. I will certainly have one more thing to be thankful for!! You all said the last week or two of waiting is the worst, and you are right!! I just can't wait for delivery day!!

[David Hodgkins]

Kevin, Check this out:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?19402-Changing-the-thread-title-Solved!

:)

[Jazzman]

As if my God, my Family, and this amazing Country were not enough reason for Thanksgiving, today I received one more reason for thanks: Don from Stewart Trucking would be at my home to deliver my Roadster today. I had hoped in would arrive this week, but had learned that it did not get picked up until last Thursday. Don had scheduled delivery for next Sunday, five days from now. He made an amazing cross country "Cannonball Run" in order to get home for Thanksgiving. He was so fast that he arrived a full day early, and had time to deliver my car today. So at 2:03, he drove in right on schedule. I can already tell from the number of boxes that there are a few things on backorder, but I have enough to keep me out of trouble for a while. It's going to be a great weekend: Turkey, family, more turkey, more family, inventory, inventory, inventory . . .

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48003&d=1448497020
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48004&d=1448497021
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48005&d=1448497021
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48006&d=1448497022
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1448497024
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48009&d=1448497025
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48010&d=1448497025

[David Hodgkins]

Awwwwrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt!!!

Congrats!

:)

[edwardb]

Cool! Let the fun begin. Enjoy. :cool:

[Jazzman]

It has been a rather productive 2 1/2 days. Inventory took quite a while. I am missing about 25 pieces, including some major ones like spindles, hubs, and Willwood brakes. (I had read there was a long delay on Anniversary model brakes, but I was not aware there would be any delay on the 6 piston Red Caliper Willwoods like I had ordered. ) I sent a lengthy email to FFR, but I don't expect to hear anything at all till next week. I took the day off, why shouldn't they!! Oh well, I have enough to keep me out of trouble!

My assistants helped me get the body off and moved to the buck in the back yard. (I decided having to stumble over it for the next 2 years would drive me nuts, so I moved the buck to the backyard and will cover the body.) I was surprised to find that this was a very easy process.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48055&d=1448695307

I began removing the aluminum panels, and discovered a couple of nice surprises. Because I am using the Coyote Engine, I ordered the special aluminum panels for that engine. It looks like FFR was inspired by 2bking's excellent drivers foot box modifications for the Coyote motor. I haven't taken the time to put my photos along side King's to see how similar the design is, but it looks like they have really improved the space utilization inside the drivers foot box.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48058&d=1448695309

FFR has also revised the other side of the drivers foot box to add a bit more space. There is no longer any need to do the modification that so many have done to add space for the drivers left foot when not on the clutch. It only pops out about an inch, but seems to add quite a bit of useable space inside. Here is an outside and inside view.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48057&d=1448695308
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48056&d=1448695307

Here is the current state of the frame as I head off to bed:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48059&d=1448695310

[2bking]

I began removing the aluminum panels, and discovered a couple of nice surprises. Because I am using the Coyote Engine, I ordered the special aluminum panels for that engine. It looks like FFR was inspired by 2bking's excellent drivers foot box modifications for the Coyote motor. I haven't taken the time to put my photos along side King's to see how similar the design is, but it looks like they have really improved the space utilization inside the drivers foot box.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48058&d=1448695309

I'm glad they fixed the Coyote sheet metal and it looks like they got almost as much space back as mine did. I won't have to email files anymore.
48060

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jazz,
Congrats! Just as an FYI, in case you are not aware the driver's footbox front panes that you show in the photos is for use with a donor pedalbox. The proper one should be in one of your boxes.

Have fun,
Jeff

[edwardb]

Looking really good. Those footbox changes are nice. Just since 4 months ago from when mine was delivered. Interesting how they keep making improvements to the design. BTW, your Wilwood brakes wouldn't have been with the shipment. They are drop shipped to you directly from Wilwood. But FF should be able to give you a promise date.

[KDubU]

Looking good!

[Jazzman]

Thanks Jeff. In the back of my feeble memory I think I knew that, but with my luck, I would have PC'ed the one in the photo, then found the correct one later! Thanks for saving me from making a really stupid mistake.

Thanks, Paul, for the word on the Willwoods. I wish there had been some notification of that information, but it really doesn't slow me down yet. I have plenty to keep me busy.

[Jazzman]

Some may wonder why I am keeping this build log. I have little to offer when compared to the depth of experience that others show daily on this forum. However, I will make mistakes and learn lessons that these "experts" will not make. Therefore, I keep this log in the hope that the less experienced builders will be able to learn from my "rookie" mistakes.

After Jeff Kleiner's reminder about the "wrong" panel on the DS footbox, I double checked that I had the right one. I did not, so this is one more thing to talk to FFR about this week. Thanks again for the heads up Jeff.

I spent yesterday painting the "pumpkin". I decided to install this first just so that I could stop stumbling over it in the garage. Since I have not yet found POR-15, I decided to take the suggestion of others and just use Rust-o-leum. I chose the paint specifically formulated for automotive applications. I taped off the Aluminum cover, and gave the cast iron case a thorough coat of self-etching primer. After this dried, I laid on two coats of Gloss Black per the instructions. I have to say it turned out very nice. I turned it over to decide what needed to be done on the aluminum cover, and this is when I learned why people use POR-15 (or powder coating when they can): rattle can paint doesn't stand up to anything! It scuffed on the cardboard that it was sitting on. Hmmm . . .

I installed the front lower control arms. I found that I had to shorten slightly one of the metal bushing rods to make it fit into the available space. A few minutes with the grinding wheels and it fit just fine. I decided to coat all the surfaces with Mobil 1 Synthetic grease to begin the lubrication process as well as making assembly easier. It worked. It slipped together with no particular drama. I have not yet fully lubed the grease zerts because I discovered it is possible, but NOT beneficial, to cross thread the grease zert as you install it. I will have to go buy another one, and perhaps a larger one, rethread the hole, and get it put together.

Tool lesson: know what torque range you need when you buy a torque wrench. I bought a brand new Craftsman a few months ago. It has a torque range of 10-75 ft lbs. This can be entirely helpful if you need such ranges, however, when you need to torque nuts to 100-110 ft lbs, it is utterly useless. Now I will be the proud owner of two torque wrenches. I will go get one that takes me up to 200 or so ft lbs.

I discovered an anomaly. I don't think it is a problem, but it was surprising. On the PS lower control arm I used one washer on each arm, both placed toward the center.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48178&d=1448864879

On the DS lower control arm, I still used two washers, but they both were needed on the rearward arm. I checked the spacing of the mounting brackets, and they were both equal on the PS, but on the DS the front one was slightly more narrow and the rear one was slightly larger than their counterparts on the PS. There is no slop on either side, so I don't think it will make any difference.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48179&d=1448864880

I also noticed that the DS lower ball joint does not seem to sit correctly. It was installed by FFR before I got it. When compared to the PS lower ball joint, it seems to be angled toward the back of the vehicle too much. I am not sure what, if anything, should be done about it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48180&d=1448864882

Without spindles or shocks, I can't really go much further on the front suspension. I moved to the IRS lower control arms. I had to adjust the width of three of the metal bushing, handled just like the fronts. Once I got both Lower control arms installed, I realized that I had neglected to grease them before installation. Out they came. I decided not to reinstall them until the "Pumpkin" is installed.

[2bking]

I also noticed that the DS lower ball joint does not seem to sit correctly. It was installed by FFR before I got it. When compared to the PS lower ball joint, it seems to be angled toward the back of the vehicle too much. I am not sure what, if anything, should be done about it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48180&d=1448864882

Don't worry, they are tight but movable. The ball in the joint allows them to move in all directions.

[Jazzman]

One of the debates I had with myself prior to ordering my kit was whether to buy the complete kit or get the donor kit and add the necessary parts. I am just barely started, but I am VERY glad that I chose the complete kit. It comes down to not knowing what I don't know. The complete kit is supposed to have everything, so I shouldn't miss anything. If I choose to deviate from the provided parts, I can do so. If you are a newbie like me, buy the complete kit! Just one man's opinion.

[Jazzman]

Thanks King! I told you I would make "Newbie" mistakes.

[edwardb]

Good progress! It's an interesting learning experience to be sure. 2bking is absolutely right about those lower ball joints. They are really tight initially. Once you drop the spindles on, you can move them around pretty easily. When I first read your update without seeing the pictures I was afraid they weren't pressed in properly. But they look fine. Not sure what's happening with those front tabs. You're not the first I've seen who've had to put a selection of washers in there. I haven't personally experienced that though. Couple of comments/suggestions. I would be a little careful about adjusting the lengths of the bushings. First make sure the tabs on the chassis are square and parallel. Not unusual at all for them to be slightly off. I'm guessing due to the heat of welding. You can "adjust" them quite easily with a large adjustable wrench. Just pinch 'em and give a little push or pull. It could be possible to squeeze the joint and restrict movement by getting the bushings too short. Should be a last resort IMO. You will need a torque wrench with 250 ft/lbs for the front spindle nuts and the rear axle nuts. I have several torque wrenches, but had to go buy yet another to get that capacity. For the Wilwood brakes, the hat to rotor bolts are supposed to be 155 in/lbs. That's at the whole other end of the spectrum. Most paints wouldn't hold up to being directly contacted on cardboard or whatever given the weight of the pumpkin. Once I had mine painted, I kept it suspended off the mounting lugs. If you do want to buy some POR-15, Summit Racing has a full selection. I used this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/poi-45408/overview/

[Jazzman]

Today I got the differential put into place. I did not say I got it bolted in place, but it is in. I used the motorcycle jack that I have been stumbling over for five years to lift the differential and rotate it into place. (I had several times decided to get rid of that thing! Glad I didn't.) My wonderful wife provided the second set of hands. (She's a great wife!!)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48254&d=1449030488

To lift the rear of the differential into place, I rigged a ratcheted tie down strap to slowly lift and hold the part while I put in the bolts. The first rear bolt went in rather easily, but the second one was very tight. I used a bar clamp to pull the differential ever so slightly to the DS, then the bolt went into the threads. It was still very tight, but with some effort I was able to get the bolt mostly in.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48255&d=1449030489

I left the bolts loose per the instructions. Now I see another issue. The differential is not tight, but very close, at the rear, but this leaves a very significant gap between the front mounting point on the differential and the bushing that is on the frame. It is easily wide enough to accommodate an 1/8" washer to fill the gap, but the kit didn't come with any washers for this particular part of the build.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48256&d=1449030491
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48257&d=1449030492

To make matters even more challenging, the bolts provided for the front mounting location seem to be too big. The manifest lists part #15962 as an M14-2.0 x 100 MM flange head bolts for the rear mounting bolts. (They were the right size and length.) The manifest lists part #15963 as an M16-2.0 x 130MM flange head bolt. The problem is that the M16 bolt seems to big to go through the front holes in the differential. I don't know if it will fit into the bushing sleeve on the frame. There is not enough room on that side to get the bolt straight with the sleeve to see if it fits. I am freezing the bolts right now to see if I can get just enough contraction to make them go into the holes. Also, if two of the bolts thread directly into the differential case with no nut and are size M14, and the other two bolts get a nut on the back side but are size M16, why do I have four deformed thread flanged locknuts in size M16? What are the two extras for?

I also got the IRS lower control arms installed. After doing the front ones, it was pretty straightforward. A little grease, both real and elbow, and they both slipped right in.

I had a very lengthy phone call with Tony at FFR today. He certainly reinforced my decision to buy from FFR. He was great! Patient, helpful, and knowledgeable. We went through my entire list of missing parts. Many he already knew, and are already on order to be drop shipped to me. It will be a few days to several weeks before some of the parts arrive. He agreed with Jeff Kleiner, I do have the wrong front panel for the drivers footbox. He is sending another one. He is also sending the other various parts that are currently available. I really appreciate the absolutely top-notch customer service from FFR.

[edwardb]

Regarding the center sections installation -- you've made good progress getting it that far. It's one of the more challenging steps, at least for me so far in the build. I've seen other posts where guys experienced the gap like you're showing at the front mounts. Not sure who might have changed something. Ford or Factory Five. Mine was wedged in tight, but some others not. Something has changed. But the proper sized washer to fill the space will solve it. As far as the front bolts, they are definitely 16mm. You did drill out the front center section mount holes to 5/8 inch, per the instructions, right? Sure hope so because it wouldn't be fun to drill them in place. With the 5/8 hole, the 16mm bolt will go through, and that's what's required for the front bushings. I too received 4 16mm locknuts and have 2 not used. Kind of ironic. We chase backorders and missing parts, but then have lots of stuff left over too.

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Jazzman, I installed the rear diff the other week, my 11 year old was manning the jack while I was navigating it into place. I got it in relatively quick was surprised. At first I was sent the wrong sleeves so they sent me the correct ones. I think I have a similar small gap on the passenger side front mount. I have all the bolts torqued to correct specs but don't see how this is going to line up at all given how tight everything is. The passenger side wont get any closer. I included a photo

48269

I was missing the rear sway bar mounts, they just arrived today so will get them powder coated and continue with the IRS.
I'll send Tony a note but maybe will try and put a washer as you suggest.

[Paul Mischenko]

Just saw Edwards posting, I also received the 4 16mm locknuts. I also found it helped to drill out the powder coating from the frame mounts as well. I seem to be doing that on all the suspension stuff.

[RRussellTx]

If you have problems getting the bolts to start - check out my post #58 in Edwardb's IRS thread.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18354-2015-Mustang-IRS-Components-So-it-begins

The key is to leave the sleeve out a bit so you have some room to get the bolt though everything. Once the bolt gets inside the sleeve and semi-lined up, I used a little hand bar clamp to squeeze the bolt into the sleeve as far as possible. Then just tap the sleeve/bolt the rest of the way through the sleeve until you can get the nut started. We fought it for quite some time before we figured it out but it went smooth after that.

The hardest part was convincing ourselves to pull everything out and start over in order the pull out the sleeve because we were 'sooooo close' already.

[edwardb]

I also found it helped to drill out the powder coating from the frame mounts as well. I seem to be doing that on all the suspension stuff.

Yes, the holes are all laser cut and very precise to the bolt sizes. The added powder coat can make them hard to assemble. I use a rat tail file. Couple of strokes around the inside of the holes and the powder coating comes right out.

[Jazzman]

By taking all of your suggestion and adding a little grease to the bolts, I finally got the differential installed. It fought me at every turn, but we finally got it. I did take it out, chase all the holes with a drill bit, and then had to use some "creative persuasion" to get all the bolts in. I ended up using four washers to fill the excess space, one on each bolt. I guess that given the alternatives, I prefer a little extra space to fill rather than fighting it because it is just too tight.

All the suspension bolts are in but none are torqued to specs. I have to get a stronger torque wrench to do them. Any suggestions of a good quality torque wrench? I am looking into a craftsman right now. I like their lifetime warranty. I am also finding an ever growing list of sockets and box wrenches that I need to add to my already overflowing collection.

[Paul Mischenko]

Jazzman, I bought a CDI 2503 1/2 30-250 lbs wrench for this build and so far I'm really please with it. Got it from Amazon,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LA1EDO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
I also spoke Tony today. I pulled out a few of the bolts, filed down one spacer in the front. Now both my front mounts are tight and I used 2 washers on the rear mounts. Think I'm good now, debating with some slightly larger washers on the rear.
4828748288482894829048291

[Jazzman]

I've had a productive couple of days, but not much that is photo worthy. I'm sort of stalled now. I have gone as far as I can go on the front and rear suspensions. I'm still waiting on spindles, hubs, shocks, brakes, etc etc. I spent most of the last two days marking, measuring, and drilling holes to attach the aluminum panels. I lost count of how many holes, but I didn't break any drill bits. The drill press came in very handy. I have now separated the panels that need to be powder coated from those that will not be powder coated. I took the F panels and 8 various unfinished parts to the powder coater on Friday. I wanted to give him a chance to prove his skills before I gave him the entire box of panels. The first batch should be ready mid next week. I ordered a new Torque wrench and it should be here Tuesday. I guess I'll clean the garage tomorrow.

[Jazzman]

I am pleased to report that the ball joints went into the IFS upper control arms with little trouble. I buffed the threads of the ball joints to smooth out any imperfections, applied blue locktite, and threaded them in. I was surprised to not have much problem with this step. I know others have fought the ball joints, found them to be too tight, but I did not have this experience. I think the buffing of the powder coat on the threads created just enough space to make them thread right in. Whatever the reason, they worked well. As you can see from the photo, the parts are in the right place, but nothing is tightened. The heavier duty torque wrench will be here Tuesday, and I can get to work next weekend tightening everything up to specs.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48360&d=1449472351

Now on to a few questions. First these two pieces. The top one is the top inside DS footbox cover, and the lower looks like it is the same shape as the opening and is the size that should be the cover for the opening in the top part. however, the lower piece is bent the wrongway to fit as the cover. The bend should go the other direction but the same diagonal. Do I have my parts mixed up, or did the lower cover piece get bent the wrong way?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48361&d=1449472355

The piece below is the tunnel for the clutch cable. I plan to use the Forte Hydrolic clutch. As such, do I still need this tunnel on the front wall of the DS footbox? If I don't need it, can I cover the hole before I have the panel Powder coated? I don't want to Powder coat this part if I am not going to use it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48362&d=1449472357

Edwardb did a beautiful job of painting or powdercoating this driveshaft adapter before he installed it. (I'm not sure which one, but would love to know!) Does this part need that type of protection? Will it be seen after it is installed? If powder coated, how do you keep the threads clean, or do you chase them after coating?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48363&d=1449472359

I think I have all the parts sorted for powder coating. I have a stack for black PC and all the visible aluminum panels. I think I will drop them off to the powder coater tomorrow before I leave for a business trip. With a bit of luck, they will be done after I return.

[edwardb]

Looking good! The variation on those upper ball joints is a mystery. Glad yours went in OK. For your questions: Looks like Factory Five did a nice job with the modded DS Coyote footbox, but sent you the previous design top cover. I'm assuming they would send you the right one, but it would be super easy to make one or just adjust the piece you have. You won't use that clutch cable piece with a hydraulic clutch setup, and yes you can add the filler piece to the footbox front before powder coat. Thanks for the nice compliment for my driveshaft adapter, except I didn't do anything to it. Mine came with the black finish. Yours looks like it came with a zinc coating. I would use it as is. It's properly protected, is almost completely covered once installed, plus not exactly in an area where visible. Have you checked to make sure it fits OK? I've heard a couple of builders with the new IRS had trouble with this piece. I would check that it fits into the flange and bolts properly to the center section. Also check that the driveshaft U-joint fits to it properly.

[Jazzman]

Due to a short business trip and waiting for parts from FFR, I have made very little progress this week. However, a few things have been accomplished.

1. The new Craftsman Torque wrench arrived. I'm glad it is finally here, but I am not entirely impressed with it. First, it didn't come with the three little batteries that it needed to operate. The instructions said to find an old battery number that no one carries any more. After consulting with the iPhone and the Energizer website, I found the equivalent replacement size, which apparently is still not very common. I had to go to three stores to get them. I finally found them at Home Depot as I was checking out!. After installing them, I discovered that the head is more loose than I would expect for such an expensive tool. It works, but I am concerned about it's longevity. I then discovered that unlike the lifetime Craftsman warranty that I have come to expect, this little gem only has a 90 day warranty! Wow. The last bastion of quality products that a company will stand behind has fallen. Well, lets see how it lasts.

2. I have gone back and torqued up to spec all the IRS bolts, and the IFS bolts, and have greased every moving piece until grease came out of the indicator holes in the bushings. I wasn't sure about how tight to make the IFS upper control arms. I found discussions about "endplay" and it warned not to tighten them too tight. I discovered what too tight was when I tried to grease the bushings. I backed them off a bit, and the grease went through easily. There is not slop, they move freely, but not loosely. Without the spindles or the lower control arms connected, the upper control arms will stay at any angle you happen to leave them at, but with very little pressure will move easily. It seems reasonable to me.

3. All the aluminum panels have been sent out for powder coating. The two F panels are back and installed, and look great if I do say so myself. I think I am going to be very pleased with my choice. You will have to wait for pictures on that until I get more installed.

I had a nice call with several great people at FFR about back ordered parts. The good news is that they seem to be staying on top of it. The bad news is it is still going to be 2-4 weeks for several of the major suspension items, and longer than that for the Willwood brakes. Willwood must have really underestimated the popularity of their new setup because they are really behind. Oh well, I will have to find other things to keep me busy.

I opened the box with the front sway bar. It has a bunch of parts included, but only directions to install it on a Mazda Miata. I looked in the manual to find instructions. Didn't see anything. Looked in the various pages of additional instruction for the options I selected, still nothing. Searched the forum, and finally found MadDog's thread with the instructions. It goes all the way back to 2012, and the parts aren't exactly the same, but I hope I can figure it out from the pictures that are there. About half of them are missing. If someone has current instructions for installation, I would appreciate your linking them here or PM'ing me. I finally looked through Edwardb's 20th Anniversary thread and found his photos and comments about the sway bars. (Should have looked there in the first place!!) I hope that will provide enough info for me. Thanks Paul! I will work on that tomorrow.

Someone had posted a modification to the rear quickjack/body mount bolt system to make it easier to remove the body without having to remove the fuel tank. I can't find it but want to do it before I install the fuel tank. Can someone direct me?

Well, back to finding "make work" while I wait for parts, panels, etc. It is still fun!

[120mm]

If I were you, I would invest in a tap and die set. I've worked as an airplane mechanic and I learned to always run a tap in nuts and female threaded parts and a die over bolts and other male threaded parts. Your life would be much simpler and you won't mess up expensive parts.

As for as torque wrenches are concerned, you can either borrow them from a place that keeps them calibrated, buy the expensive ones (Snap-On, Cornwall, Matco) or buy cheap ones from Harbor Freight. Just about anything in between is money wasted.

[2bking]

Someone had posted a modification to the rear quickjack/body mount bolt system to make it easier to remove the body without having to remove the fuel tank. I can't find it but want to do it before I install the fuel tank. Can someone direct me?


I believe this mod (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/484642-rear-bumper-coupler-mod.html) is what you are wanting to do.

[Jazzman]

I thought I remembered that it was one of the "Jeff's" that demonstrated this. Thanks, King, for helping my feeble memory. I thought I had searched for Rear Quick Jack Mounting (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14243-Rear-quick-jack-mounting&highlight=coupler), but hey, it was late, it was raining (rare in Arizona!!), I had one too many Coke's, who knows. Probably just Adult onset CRS!! Thanks.

[ghowe]

Jazzman
When you get ready to install the rear brakes you might want to download this installation guide from Wilwood.
http://wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-15138-R
I pretty much have the same car but did not spring for the Coyote. Be sitting down when you start shopping for tires. If you find any under $250 please let me know.
Thanks

[Jazzman]

I am working on the Front and rear swaybars. I have thoroughly reviewed all of the photos that Edwardb was so kind to put on his thread. I think I can see what needs to be done. So I lay out all the various fittings that were packaged with the bars. I tried to lay them out in a front and rear sort of way so I could see how each set might go together.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48538&d=1449966931

The problem is these four parts:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48537&d=1449966926
Based upon Edwardb's photos, it looks like I have four of the "female" side of these ends and no "male" ends that are supposed to attach to them. So, Edwardb, am I missing two parts?

[edwardb]

Based upon Edwardb's photos, it looks like I have four of the "female" side of these ends and no "male" ends that are supposed to attach to them. So, Edwardb, am I missing two parts?

You should have two male and two female rod ends for each sway bar. They get cut down and then put together. I just emailed the instructions to you.

[Jazzman]

Merry Christmas to all! I have been a bit limited on shop time due to the "Joys of the Season", but I have steadily gotten a bit of work done.

Thank you to all that have responded to my poll of how to deal with the clutch pedal/frame rail interference problem. After reading the responses, I decided to go to the "notch the pedal" camp. Since I don't weld, and the strength given up is still well in excess of what I think I am capable of applying, I decided simple was best. I would echo others' comments that I do think that this problem is widespread enough that it warrants immediate action on the part of the FFR design and assembly teams. I hope they make a correction soon to simplify future builder situations.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48963&d=1450852706

I have installed (loosely) the steering shaft. I went ahead and took Edwardb's recommendation to add two allen headed screws to the sides of the steering shaft to eliminate unwanted play. After installing all the parts, I was somewhat surprised to find that the steering shaft is not installed parallel to centerline of the frame, and seems to exit the dashboard at a small but noticeable angle. It seems to work fine, but seems odd. I wonder if it will show once I install the steering wheel. I don't really know what to do about it, so I will live with it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48962&d=1450852705

I have become quite skilled at installing and removing the rear toe arms of the IRS. I wished I had known the first time I installed them that I would need to install the attachment plates to hold the rear sway bar using the same bolts. I further wish I had realized that I would have to use the slightly longer bolts that came with the sway bar kit to replace the stock bolts. If you don't use the longer bolts, the nuts will go on, but the nylock bushing will not fully engage the threads and potentially come loose or fall out. (Ask me how I know!!) So I have installed the toe arms three times. The last time was the fastest. Practice makes improvement.

Still missing large chunks of the suspension system, (brakes, shocks, hubs, spindles) but I received FedEx notification that I have three big packages in the mail. One is 45lbs, another is 22lbs. I am holding out hope that these will be some of the missing suspension parts. Time will tell. I have kept myself busy working on sheet goods. Almost all the visible panels have been powder coated. I have already discovered at least two that I missed. More on that in the next post.

[Jazzman]

I learned from DaleG and others that heat control in the cockpit is a very real issue, especially here in Arizona. Someone suggested that I make templates of each piece prior to installation so that I could easily cut sheets of heat control material to install at a later date. I started by connecting the panels which might be adjacent to each other, then made a cardboard template of each piece.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48960&d=1450852704
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48961&d=1450852704

After doing a few of these for the passenger side panels, I realized that there were some panels that would be very difficult if not impossible to access after they were installed. Therefore, I decided to install the insulation before I install the panels. This is really important on the drivers side.

I bought two sheets of ThermoTec Suppressor Sheets, 36"x60". It will not be enough for the entire car, but it's a good start. I considered Dynamat (expensive and primarily focused on sound control, not heat) and on LizzardSkin (decided that it was too messy to apply. I wanted something I could cut and place.) Amazon, cheapest source and delivered in 36 hours. Nice.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PILLZG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

I emailed ThermoTec to be sure the Suppressor Sheets could be installed inside the footbox. Their response is that the sheets will stand up to the heat inside the engine compartment and provide a bit more effective heat protection if the foil side is facing the engine, covering the sheet metal. However, they understand that it does not look as nice and clean as many would like, so it is designed to also work with the foil side inside, away from the engine. The aluminum panels will get hotter this way, but the heat will still not be transmitted into the footbox as it would if there were no protection at all. I want a clean look, so mine is going inside under the carpet.

It is a bit stiff when cold, so I laid out the sheet in front of the fireplace to heat is up a bit. It worked. It relaxed in about 15 minutes. I then laid out as many pieces as I could on the first sheet.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48964&d=1450852707

The sheets have some weight to them, but they cut easily with scissors. After cutting them to the correct size, I then very carefully laid them on the sheet. The directions warn you that the adhesive is very strong. IT IS!! It is almost impossible to remove after just touching the aluminum, and after pressing it on, forget about it. It is there to stay. I then trimmed up all the edges with a razor knife. The scissors and razor knife will need some clean up with lacquer thinner or mineral spirits (not sure which yet, still working!) It is a slow process but the result is very nice.

to test the effectiveness of the heat protection, I laid a panel against the fireplace. (Yes, that is a gas fireplace with Glass on the front. I know those of you in colder climates are laughing at it, and yes, it is an embarrassment. It does put out some nice heat though. What can I say, it came with the house.) I got the glass up to 207 degrees, the aluminum side of the panel to 145 degrees, and the foil side of the heat barrier sheeting was at 79 degrees. (The tile and room are 69 degrees.) I would say that is a significant heat protection for just a bit over 1/16" thickness.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48965&d=1450852708

[Jeff Kleiner]

Interesting study with the insulated panel against the heat source. Thanks!

BTW, the slight angle to the steering shaft is normal and by design to provide a little extra space between the steering wheel and door top. The curve of the cowl will render it invisible to the eye once the body is on. It also won't be noticed from the driver's seat, and in fact depending on the seats you use there is a good chance that it will also end up slightly skewed at a similar angle to fit the body &/or tunnel.

Nice work, carry on!

Jeff

[rickscobra]

Good morning Jazzman, You recent post made for a good laugh over coffee this morning. Here in Maine, any heat is a welcomed side effect on my 20th Anniversary Stealth Edition. I have even given some thought of piping some of the engine heat into my cockpit. Not sure which number I am of the Stealth Five kits. BTW we have an exact fireplace insert in our house to stave off cool summer mornings.

[David Hodgkins]

Looking good!

:)

[Jazzman]

Yes, Rick, we certainly have significantly different perspectives on heat utilization and dissipation! "White Christmas" in Maine is a real thing. Here it just refers to a 1940's movie. Christmas day here was slightly breezy, but I spent all day in short sleeves and sandals. Quite different than the 32 degrees I see you have there. I'll bet it is beautiful there though. I looked at photos of Farmington online. Wow. From my perspective, that is picture postcard perfect!

I'm going to put the louvers in the hood to let the heat out. I suspect you will not choose that option. :)

[Jazzman]

week. I have both of the foot boxes installed, though I left both of the outside panels off so I still have easy access. I will install them later. I may look into the "rivnuts" that several have mentioned. I think keeping access to that area may be helpful in the future. I am so glad I went to the effort of insulating the panels before i installed them. There is no way I could have gotten the insulation sheets onto the inside of those foot boxes after they were fully installed without completely messing it up.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49089&d=1451199008
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49086&d=1451199005

I discovered four more aluminum panels that need to be powder coated. Oh well, that will delay things a week! Here is how the powder coating came out. I like it. I think it will go nicely with whichever final color choice I make.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49087&d=1451199006
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49088&d=1451199007

I decided that I am going to write down a list of all the things I wished I had known before I started the build. I plan to post that list at the end of the build process.

I installed the fuel tank tonight. The directions were clear and simple, I followed them, it worked. No problems. I did not yet plumb the fuel lines or the fuel filter because I don't yet have the in-tank fuel pump. It is on order from Breeze along with the power steering rack. I am not sure how soon I will get them.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49083&d=1451199003

I did discover a minor challenge: no bolts to attach the fuel tank straps. I couldn't find them in the main bag of parts for the fuel tank. I searched all the other bags of parts that I have, and couldn't find anything that looked similar. I went back to the parts manifest and found an interesting anomaly: there are no bolts listed to hang the fuel tank straps! Everything else for the Fuel tank was in Box #20, (in my case) and nowhere on that list is any bolts for that purpose. I don't know exactly how many gallons the tank holds, but I estimate that it is no more than 20. At six lbs per gallon of fuel, I estimate that the four bolts have to support no more than 200lbs. Since it is not a suspension type part that required a grade 8 bolt, I went to my supply of 3/8" bolts that I have accumulated and bolted it right up. Worked perfectly. I even found two square nuts that I used on the front mounting locations. By using the square nuts, I can unbolt the front of the tank without having to access the nut from the top.


I did remember to install the connecting nuts before putting in the fuel tank. That seems like a really good idea. Thanks!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49084&d=1451199004

I still have some work to do before I can install the sheet metal in the trunk area. The Russ Thompson trunk box and the FFMetal Battery box are on order. Before I close it all up, I want to be sure to deal with this yellow plastic plug on the differential. Do I remember correctly that this is some sort of a vent? Do I need to add something that is not in the basic plan to deal with this vent? Does the differential come pre-filled with fluid, or should I do that before I go much further and make it even more difficult to gain access?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49082&d=1451199002

I will soon have to learn to bend fuel and brake lines. Any suggestions on what bender to buy that works well for this purpose? I think my 3/4" and 1" EMT benders are a bit overkill!

[rickscobra]

Happy to report it is snowing her in Maine.
Edwardb found the answer to your center section vent question. Go to your Ford dealer and order part number FR3Z-4A058-A, which is the Mustang vent hose assembly. I just ordered on and it is priced at a very reasonable $19.95. While the center sections come filled with oil, you can do several things. One, is to drain it for an inspection of the oil, and two, order the special 75-85 oil and friction modifier from Ford dealer, and replace the existing oil. The oil is not cheap at $29 a quart. I ordered a quart and will drain the existing oil to compare it to the new oil, then top off as required.
After convincing myself I was going with gloss black powder coat for my panels, I am sure liking your hammertone color. Must decide this asap. You build is looking mighty fine.

Rick

[KDubU]

Hah! Not in Southern Maine it's not ;)...yet.

The Termo-Tec sounds very interesting. I really like your method of making templates, wish I would have thought of that. Not looking forward to getting some to the insulation up in the DS footbox. I'm also considering Lizard Skin as I have read good things about it although it is messy as you say to apply. Looking really good on the build.

[edwardb]

I did discover a minor challenge: no bolts to attach the fuel tank straps. I couldn't find them in the main bag of parts for the fuel tank. I searched all the other bags of parts that I have, and couldn't find anything that looked similar. I went back to the parts manifest and found an interesting anomaly: there are no bolts listed to hang the fuel tank straps! Everything else for the Fuel tank was in Box #20, (in my case) and nowhere on that list is any bolts for that purpose. I don't know exactly how many gallons the tank holds, but I estimate that it is no more than 20. At six lbs per gallon of fuel, I estimate that the four bolts have to support no more than 200lbs. Since it is not a suspension type part that required a grade 8 bolt, I went to my supply of 3/8" bolts that I have accumulated and bolted it right up. Worked perfectly. I even found two square nuts that I used on the front mounting locations. By using the square nuts, I can unbolt the front of the tank without having to access the nut from the top.

I will soon have to learn to bend fuel and brake lines. Any suggestions on what bender to buy that works well for this purpose? I think my 3/4" and 1" EMT benders are a bit overkill!

Great progress! I really like how you precut the insulation. The fuel tank hangar bolts in my kit were in box 2A Secondary Chassis Components. Right about in the middle of the page 10897 Fuel Strap Fasteners, and then bolts, nuts, and washers listed underneath. Everything else was in the in the fuel tank box as you found. FYI, the Mustang fuel tank used is roughly 16 gallons. Are you planning to use the fuel and brake lines included in the kit? Those bend pretty easily, but a tubing bender is a big help. There are lots of options and sources. I mainly use this one that I got from Eastwood when I bought their flaring tool. It works pretty well: http://www.eastwood.com/triple-head-180-degree-tubing-bender-3-16-3-8-in.html

[Gene]

I am really enjoying your build log. I am just getting started on my kit and it is really helpful to read your posts and the responses from others. The detailed pictures are great.
Thanks.

[Jazzman]

Thanks, Gene for the compliment. With my limited background compared to the "experts" I wasn't sure if my additions would add any value. I am trying to document both my successes and failures, but so far the build is going very smoothly. Thanks for following my progress. More to come soon!

[Jazzman]

After confirming that all the footbox panels would fit correctly, I decided I was time to permanently attach the front panel of the drivers footbox. I had left this piece loose because I wanted to be sure that all the panels would fit after adding the Thermotec mats. Everything fit just fine because I had notched out the areas where the panels intersected. However, I did notice that after everything was put in place, the front panel was not quite tight to front of the steel frame that holds the pedal set. I didn't want this panel to rattle, nor did I want it to let unnecessary air flow into the footbox. The space was about 1/8", a bit too large to pull together just with rivets. I decided to add some nice looking cap screws to hold the panel tightly in place. After adding the appropriate silicone adhesive, I installed the panel like this. It is now very solidly attached and completely sealed.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49368&d=1451685819

About two weeks ago I ordered the battery box from FFMetal.com. I decided I wanted to utilize the wasted space above the differential but below the trunk floor. I cannot say enough nice things about FFMetal and the product. Great service and a great product! The piece fits perfectly. It is very solidly built and easy to install. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49369&d=1451685820
Please note that in the photo the front support bar is just sitting there to hold the box in place for the photo. That bar actually installs upside down from what is shown so that only the ends of the bolts will be at the top. I have not yet permanently installed the box because I am still waiting for Ford to get a differential breather hose in stock. (I don't know how many Ford dealers in the greater Phoenix area, but not one of them had this part!! Really? it is for the differential of a brand new Mustang! Oh well, I digress.) When installed, I think this is going to be a great utilization of wasted space and a great way to free up precious inches in both the engine bay and the trunk. Not cheap, but I think worth the money.

[Jazzman]

Things are slowly being checked off of the backorder list. This week it was the Koni double adjustable shocks and the front wheel hubs. I began installing the shocks, only to discover that the one bolt on each of the locations was too short. In the rear, it was the upper shock mount bolt. The manifest clearly states that the bolt is a 1/2x20 3.25" bolt. The problem is that the mounting location that it must go through is also 3.25".
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49418&d=1451889459
I will have to go buy a 3.75" or 4" bolt to have enough threads to bite on. After installing the lower shock mounting bolts, and placing the spacers with the larger one toward the rear of the car, the shocks sit perfectly vertical. I'm certainly no expert, but this seems to be logical to me.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49422&d=1451889462


In the front it is the lower shock mounting bolt. The manifest says this one should be a 2.75" bolt, which was indeed provided. However, when installing the sway bars, the additional sway bar instruction sheets say that a 3.25" bolt should be used. Two more bolts to buy.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49419&d=1451889460

The front hubs went on with very little drama. A few light taps and they slid right on. Then came the torque process. OH MY, I am going to need some help from a friend to get that one done. I decided to wait to finalize the 250lb torque spec until I have the steering rack installed so the unit will move less. I may have to wait til I get wheels on the ground to have enough limit to allow for that high torque spec.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49420&d=1451889460

Now one "hmmm" issue. I am always double and triple checking all the bolts and torque specs, and I noticed this front most bolt on the DS upper control arm of the IRS.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49421&d=1451889461
It is kind of hard to see in the photo, but the nut is very close to the 2"x3" square frame channel. It is so close, that the nut actually tightens down on the weld seam. When I began to torque the bolt to specs, the nut would not sit down flush against the steel as it should. It rode up on the weld seam. I didn't think that putting that much pressure on a weld seam was a very good idea, so I modified a washer to take up the space and sit flush next to the weld. This allowed all the pressure of the nut to be applied as it should on the steel frame without unnecessary stress on the weld. The unintended consequence was the the bolt now is just a bit too short. It doesn't look to me like the deformed nut is fully engaged on the threads. I am concerned that the nut might come loose. If you concur, I think I will go buy another, slightly longer, bolt to replace what is there. (What the heck, what is one more time to remove and install the IRS bolts!!)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nice photos and documentation! You're rivaling edwardb! I certainly won't be able to play in your guys league If I ever do another build thread.



... this one should be a 2.75" bolt, which was indeed provided. However, when installing the sway bars, the additional sway bar instruction sheets say that a 3.25" bolt should be used. Two more bolts to buy.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49419&d=1451889460


Nah, you don't have to go buy 3.25" bolts 'cause you already have them---the ones that are too short for the rear upper coilover mounts! ;)

Jeff

[edwardb]

The front hubs went on with very little drama. A few light taps and they slid right on. Then came the torque process. OH MY, I am going to need some help from a friend to get that one done. I decided to wait to finalize the 250lb torque spec until I have the steering rack installed so the unit will move less. I may have to wait til I get wheels on the ground to have enough limit to allow for that high torque spec.

Now one "hmmm" issue. I am always double and triple checking all the bolts and torque specs, and I noticed this front most bolt on the DS upper control arm of the IRS. It is kind of hard to see in the photo, but the nut is very close to the 2"x3" square frame channel. It is so close, that the nut actually tightens down on the weld seam. When I began to torque the bolt to specs, the nut would not sit down flush against the steel as it should. It rode up on the weld seam. I didn't think that putting that much pressure on a weld seam was a very good idea, so I modified a washer to take up the space and sit flush next to the weld. This allowed all the pressure of the nut to be applied as it should on the steel frame without unnecessary stress on the weld. The unintended consequence was the the bolt now is just a bit too short. It doesn't look to me like the deformed nut is fully engaged on the threads. I am concerned that the nut might come loose. If you concur, I think I will go buy another, slightly longer, bolt to replace what is there. (What the heck, what is one more time to remove and install the IRS bolts!!)

For the front spindle bolts, I agree it would be easier with the steering rack and tie rods connected. With that, plus I like to put a length of 2x4 under the LCA to the ground, then I can lean on the wrench with all my weight, and the torque wrench finally clicks. 250 ft/lbs is definitely my personal limit though.

For the DS upper control arm bolt you pictured, interesting, I had the same interference. Not on the PS side though. Anyway, rather than use spacers, a longer bolt, etc. I'd recommend just grinding the weld so it sits flat with the supplied parts. The flange on the bolt is almost exactly the same diameter as a Dremel cut-off wheel, so I carefully ground a circular relief in the weld, and it sits right down. Tried to get a quick pic. I think you can see what I mean.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0208_zpswfclisto.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension/IMG_0208_zpswfclisto.jpg.html)

For the coilover bolts, I had the same exact issues you described. The rear upper was too short, the front lower was too short to also capture the sway bar rod ends. Fortunately, those are standard Ace hardware grade 5 bolts. Quick fix.

Looking good! Nice getting all the parts, isn't it? That FFMetals battery box looks great, and fits perfectly in that location. I'm 99% sure now I'm going with the front mount Breeze box, but that looks like an excellent choice as well.

[Jazzman]

Thank you, Jeff, for the compliment, but It will be quite some time before I can add enough value to even enter the shadow of the great EdwardB! I am just trying to keep up. You all have helped me so much, I just want to give back. As for using the extra rear bolts on the lower front shocks: Why didn't I think of that!! You're a genius. Thanks for saving me $5. Remind me some day that I owe you a beer, or your other beverage of choice!

Edwardb, thanks for the counsel on the rear UCA weld. I was not sure if grinding it down flush would compromise it too much. If you say it's safe, that's good enough for me.

Yes, even at my weight, 250lbs of torque is going to be a stretch! The Breeze power steering rack just arrived about an hour ago, so I am itching to get out of the office and into the shop to work on it.

[rickscobra]

The picture of your battery box installation would not leave my brain, so I just ordered one. Now I have that dropped trunk mod rattling around in my brain.

I am still waiting for my front hubs and brakes. I will have to find someone a lot bigger than me to torque those hub nuts down.

[Jazzman]

Rick - I think you will be very pleased with the battery box. If you can wait a few weeks, I will give you some pictures of the install. I think it is shipping to me this week, but it will be several weeks before I can get to it. Extended family obligations are limiting my shop time for the next few weeks. Oh well, family first. I also have to get a buddy of mine to come over and do some welding on the trunk frame in order to remove parts of the existing frame and add in new structural members. I am still needing to research what other guys have done to remove and replace the cross members so they will not be inside the trunk area.

[Jazzman]

I was re-reading EdwardB's current built thread, and got to the section on installing the power steering reservoir on the PS F panel. I realized why his looks so nice, and my seems like it will be a challenge: His does not have the large oval opening for the mustang donor radiator hose. Since I am not using donor anything, I will fill the hole. (I wish I had realized that I should do that before it was powder coated!) I had the fill plate powder coated, and now am debating whether to place the plate on the outside or the inside. Suggestions?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49434&d=1451967265

I got replacement 4" bolts for the upper shock mounts. I noticed after I got home that the patina of the two new bolts is slightly different. (it might be difficult to see in the photo.) I also notice that the markings on the end are different. They came out of the same bin, and sound the same when you strike them against another piece of steel. (Ok, I know the "sound" method may not be a generally accepted evaluation tool of this issue. What can I say: once a musician, always a musician!) Both are supposed to be grade 5. Are they different, or are they just manufactured by different companies?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49435&d=1451967265
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49436&d=1451967266

[Jazzman]

Sometimes being a pack rat pays off. I knew that somewhere I had my grandfathers old tap and die set. In order to prepare the Heim Joints for the front and rear swaybar installation, I knew that this set would really help straighten out the threads. So check out this antique: a Pre-War Tap and Die set in a carved wood box!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49445&d=1451968883

I began cutting the male and female heim joints by marking them for 1/2" length and put them into the vise. For the male joint, I pre-threaded the 1/2"x20 Die onto the threads so that when it was removed it would recut the existing threads.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49438&d=1451967267
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49437&d=1451967267

I purchased a carbide blade made for hard metal for the sawsall. Lesson one: buy the longer blade. I chose the short one because I felt there would be less blade movement on it. This one worked fine, but it would have been easier if the blade was another couple of inches longer.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49439&d=1451967268

The cutting process was a bit nerve racking, but was really rather simple. After cutting, I polished up the ends with the fine grinder wheel, and then straightened out the threads on both sides. They screwed right together.

Then the challenges began . . .

[Jazzman]

I pulled out the special instructions for the Rear Sway bar that EdwardB was kind enough to forward to me. Here is a photo of how the joint is supposed to go together:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49440&d=1451967269

I installed, loosely, the PS heim joint first. I attached it to the LCA, then tried to attach it to the swaybar. The angle looked a bit funky, but it matched the instructions. (I just realized that in the photo, I have one of the small spacers on the wrong side of the attachment point, nearer the nut. I know it has to go inside between the attachment ear and the heim joint. Since I was testing for fit, I just left it there so I wouldn't lose it.)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49441&d=1451967269

Then I checked the other end of the bar to see if the attachment points would be in the right place. They were not. The DS end is too far left.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49442&d=1451967270

So I decided to switch around the heim joint on the PS to put the joint on the inside of the bar end (contrary to the directions). The problem just moved to the right.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49443&d=1451967271
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49444&d=1451967271

It looks like the swaybar is exactly the right length to be centered between the two ears of the attachment point on the LCA's, but this doesn't leave any space for the heim joints. Any suggestions about how to attach the Sway bar without having some weird angles on the heim joints?

[Jeff Kleiner]

... I noticed after I got home that the patina of the two new bolts is slightly different. (it might be difficult to see in the photo.) I also notice that the markings on the end are different. They came out of the same bin, and sound the same when you strike them against another piece of steel. (Ok, I know the "sound" method may not be a generally accepted evaluation tool of this issue. What can I say: once a musician, always a musician!) Both are supposed to be grade 5. Are they different, or are they just manufactured by different companies?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49435&d=1451967265
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49436&d=1451967266

They are different. The bolt on the left is a Grade 5 while the one on the right is a Grade 2. You'll want to get the proper Grade 5 for a suspension application.

FYI, the markings on the head tell the story:
---no bars=Grade 2; low or medium carbon steel with a 74,000# minimum tensile strength
---3 bars=Grade 5; medium carbon steel that is quenched and tempered with a 120,000# minimum tensile strength
---6 bars=Grade 8; medium carbon alloy steel that is quenched and tempered with a 150,000# minimum tensile strength

With that I'll modify your earlier comment to fit myself... What can I say: once an engineer, always an engineer!

Regarding your concerns on the sway bar fit; it looks like the lower control arms are at full droop which means as they travel through their arc the space between the bar mounting points becomes less. If you raise them to be more nearly horizontal as they will be at actual ride height I bet you'll find things will look and fit better.

Cheers,
Jeff

[edwardb]

I was pleasantly surprised when I unwrapped the aluminum pieces for my Anniversary build and found they had provided the PS F panel without the Mustang donor upper radiator hose hole. I didn't do anything. They just provided it that way. I've read where guys have requested this for their orders, and FF supplied a "reversed" piece without the hole like the DS. This is one of those small details that could be better I guess. For a complete kit where a radiator is included clearly the hole isn't required, so it should come without it. Anyway, for yours, when I used the filler on previous builds I put it on the outside (inside the wheel well) with the finish side of the rivets in the engine compartment. It blends into all the other mechanical details when all is said and done. Sounds like you're planning to mount something there, like a PS reservoir? Shouldn't be a problem.

Jeff has you covered about the bolts. It's something to watch closely. I buy my share of hardware at a local Ace, which has a great selection and most is sold bulk so I can get exactly what I want. But I check each part very closely before walking out the door. Occasionally I find things mixed in the bin. Usually it's just different sizes or lengths. But in this case the wrong grade. Obviously very important to get the proper grade 5 part in this case. Also good to learn the bolt markings. Note also that SAE and metric typically have different marks. SAE have the radial lines where metric will have a number. Found this link that shows them: https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/materials-and-grades/bolt-grade-chart.aspx

For the sway bar, I agree with Jeff the suspension hang changes the alignment. When I did mine, I didn't have the coilovers installed and jacked each side up to around ride height. I still had to juggle the spacers a little from what they provided to get the best alignment. At full droop the rod ends are at an angle, but it still does line up (sort of). I've read where some other guys have noted some variation here as well. I suspect it's in the bends of the provided sway bars. Looks like they're not all exactly the same. It wouldn't take much. Probably you see from the box, but those are Miata sway bars FF is getting from a company called Flyin' Miata.

That's cool you have those old tools from your grandfather. I have a box of tools from my grandfather when he worked at Ford in Dearborn, Michigan many years ago. Most I just leave the in box. But I have several measuring tools that he had -- old time Starrett stuff -- that I use quite regularly. They have his initials engraved in them and are special.

[2bking]

Jeff, Thanks for the info.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thanks King, You're right on the typo (actually I did a cut & paste of the Grade 5 line, added "alloy" and changed the tensile strength but failed to change the 5 to an 8---hey it was early and the coffee hadn't kicked yet...at least that's my story ;)). Edited the original post.

Jeff

[rickscobra]

I have a complete kit and like some, my F panel came with the hole. Just finished making the filler patch.

Actually, after several months of work, I have a significant number of parts that came with the kit, that are not applicable to my build. Given I live just four hour drive to FFR, I plan on taking all these parts back to them and exchange them for ??? Or post them for sale on the forums.

I also encountered most of the issues Jazzman has experienced. Nothing major and only irritating for a short time. There is so much to love about building this car.

[Jazzman]

For all of you suffering under feet of snow and blizzard conditions, I want you to know I feel your pain. Yesterday we got 1/4 minus hail that actually stayed on the ground overnight and part of today. It wasn't quite enough to have to shovel it out of the way, but for Scottsdale, this is a lot of frozen white stuff.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49493&d=1452321514

I received the trunk box from Russ Thompson. Fine piece. The instructions are good, and It goes together well. The only minor negative: Wow that is a lot of rivets to install in a very small area. My hand, arm and shoulder were all tired after doing all of them. Even at that, I am glad I chose to purchase it. The instuctions say to install it from the bottom side before you put in the fuel tank, and to notch it around the angled frame rails. I have seen some that have removed the frame rails and added other support rails. I haven't yet decided what to do. I am open to counsel. I certainly am not enough of an engineer to redesign this area myself for maximum structural strength in a rear impact. However, given the size of the frame rails, I am not sure how much rear impact protection this car has even in it's original configuration. Thoughts?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49490&d=1452321512

I have been bouncing around working on the shocks, the rear suspension, the front suspension, and the steering. Each facet has provided its challenges. First the front shocks. I have been working on grinding down the LCA to provide clearance for the shocks. As this is the first time I have done this, I am taking it very slow and checking fit frequently. I have not yet found quite the right tool for the die grinder to notch the middle section at the back. I'm going to Ace tomorrow to see if I can't find something that will help.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49495&d=1452321517

I received the power steering rack from Breeze a few days ago. Seems like a fine piece, though I am no expert. I also bought the offset bushings install kit. It took a little while to figure out the two sets of instructions, but I finally got it. Putting the rack in was simple enough, but getting the bolts and washers installed was quite a challenge. Too many moving pieces in too small a space for meaty fingers. I got the passenger side tight, but I am still evaluating the drivers side. I hooked up the steering shaft. It feels pretty good getting this in until . . . I checked the turns lock to lock. I had ordered a 3 turn unit, but after checking it three times to make sure I was not losing my mind, I am convinced it is a 2.5 turn unit. I will call Breeze Monday, but I am not sure what to do. How squirrely does the 2.5 unit make the car? Years ago I had two '67 Mercury Cougars. Both had very sloppy steering. It drove me nuts. I like a nice tight steering, but I don't want it so tight that it becomes dangerous. Hmmm . . .
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49494&d=1452321516
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49492&d=1452321513

I received an email that my Willwood brakes should be delivered tomorrow. The package is 45lbs, so I don't know if that is front, back, or both. Oh well, it will be exciting either way. More on that later.

[David Hodgkins]

Here's how I did my Russ Thompson trunk box:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34951&d=1413997233

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41884&d=1431440677

I hope that helps, (HTH)

:)

[edwardb]

My Russ Thompson trunk box looks exactly like David's picture. I too chose to leave in the factory braces. Having said that, many do cut the upper ones off and install new at the bottom, and I'm willing to bet don't cite any problems with doing so. I'm no structural engineer, so can't evaluate the difference with any kind of data. What I can say is that the first run of Mk4 frames had a dropped trunk. They designed in the step around the Mustang tank. Not long after, it was replaced by the design we see now. Something changed in their fabrication experience, computer modeling, whatever, that made them think it was necessary to change. Frankly, I doubt it was for strength in a crash. Those relatively thin wall pieces aren't going to stop much whether at the top or bottom of the trunk. I suspect it had more to do with alignment of the rear part of the frame, stability, repeatability, etc. My opinion is I'm not going to second guess the reasons. Just leave the pieces there. They do very little to affect the usability of the space for my purposes. But if you choose to remove them, it would probably be fine. How's that for a non-answer covering both sides of the issue? :p

For that section of the LCA to clear the Koni shock, it doesn't take much. Just a small radius. After removing some material with a cut-off wheel by making small cuts, I cleaned it up with the nose of a belt sander. Just fit down into that area. Interesting about the Breeze rack. I didn't count the number of turns with mine. I used the Breeze rack on my earlier Mk4 build, and it was silver powder coat instead of the black supplied now. Other than that, seemed exactly the same. Whatever the ratio it is, it drives perfectly. Will be interested to hear what Mark says.

[rickscobra]

Man, you guys are killing me! After totally convincing myself that I am not going to install the drop trunk, one viewing of this picture, had the credit card out of it's secure keeping. That will be the last upgrade!!

Rick in Maine

[Jazzman]

That will be the last upgrade!!
Rick in Maine

I'll bet it's not!

[carlewms]

I just installed the Breeze PS rack last month (the reman from Unistall) and it was 3 turns lock to lock before I installed the limiters.

When I put the limiters to prevent the tires from rubbing the F-panels it is about 2.5 turns lock to lock. I hope that I can get rid of one of the limiters on each side once everything is aligned and adjusted.

In both cases the ratio is still the same 20:1 as I recall.

Maybe that is what is going on here.

[Jazzman]

Small follow up on the Breeze Power steering rack. I discovered a quarter sized puddle directly beneath the steering rack. I have sent an email off to Mark at Breeze. I just sent it about 2 hours ago, so I don't expect anything all for two or three days. No problem. Other challenges at hand.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49524&d=1452383825

After some quality time with a grinder wheel and the die grinder, the LCA's up front are ready to receive the shock bodies. I installed the shocks, then began attaching the front sway bar. Excluding the obvious nuts that have not yet been tightened, I think I have all the parts installed just like the directions and photos. Here is the swaybar attachment when the LCA's are up as much as I can raise them:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49521&d=1452382637

And here it is at full droop:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49522&d=1452382638
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49523&d=1452382639

Next up, spindles and brakes.

For all you Roadster experts in the Scottsdale / Phoenix area: I have gotten enough done that I would really appreciate someone more knowledgeable than me looking over my progress to make sure I haven't missed something obvious. If you might be willing to get together, please PM me. Thanks.

[2bking]

Small follow up on the Breeze Power steering rack. I discovered a quarter sized puddle directly beneath the steering rack.

If the pressure/return lines are not connected, the fluid on the floor is probably being pushed out the red plastic thread protectors when the rack is operated by the steering shaft. BTW, hooking up the pressure/return lines backwards will result in having to replace the rack. Ask me how I know.

[skullandbones]

Hey Jazzman,

I've just started looking at your thread. I must say you are doing an excellent job with your documentation. I could have used your thread when I was building. Oh well, it will help some future builders, I'm sure. You seem to be having a good time as well. I will try to catch up as I can as my attention span is limited.

Continued good luck on you build,

WEK.

[Jazzman]

King - I wondered about that. I sent an email to Mark at Breeze for further clarification. Thanks!

SkullandBones- Thank you, that it quite a compliment coming from you. I certainly hope someone will benefit from this thread. (I am having a great time, both with the build and with the thread. This is the first time I have ever kept a "diary". It is great to already be able to look back and see how far I have come.)

I didn't get quite as much done today as I intended because I spent about 5 hours helping my sister put up pegboard in her garage. I offered to help, and it was good to spend a bit of time with her.

My new best friend is my die grinder. I have used it to clean up cut areas and grind down the LCA of the IFS. I learned very quickly that my 40+ year old small air compressor is not up to the task of running air tools like this. I can grind for about 45 seconds, then I have to wait 4-5 minutes for the compressor to pump up the tank. A new compressor is in my future, but not this week. I have to figure out where to put it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49575&d=1452496477

I got the hole cut in the upper trunk floor for the dropped battery box. Lesson: not all "metal" cutting jig saw blades are created equal. I purchased the ones with 36 teeth per inch so that I would get a nice clean cut. I quickly found that aluminum is "gummy" and gums up the fine teeth in the blade if it gets too hot. I could cut three inches then wait a minute or two to let the blade and aluminum cool down. Then another three inches. Slow, but I got it done. I will have to go to HD tomorrow and get blades that are a bit more coarse.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49577&d=1452496477

With my success on the battery box hole, I moved on to the hole in the lower trunk floor for the dropped trunk box. Same slow process, but I was getting there . . . until my bleary eyed bride came downstairs and told me she could clearly hear my cutting and it was keeping her awake. And just 11pm! Can you imagine?!! I will have to finish that during more reasonable hours.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49576&d=1452496477

I was comparing my photos and results to photos posted by other builders of the same things. My Front spindles look like this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49574&d=1452496477
I do not have a washer between the top of the spindle and the top castle nut. I reconfirmed that this is the way the instructions specify on Page 46 of the manual. However, when I compared this area with a similar photo posted by Edwardb, I noticed that he has a washer between the castle nut and the top of the spindle. Is this something that is necessary, or just a minor mod? To me it seems like a washer and a bit of lube makes sense, as this part does get a lot of movement. I just can't find any washers that fit. I don't think I missed the washers. I'm just not sure.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I do not have a washer between the top of the spindle and the top castle nut. I reconfirmed that this is the way the instructions specify on Page 46 of the manual. However, when I compared this area with a similar photo posted by Edwardb, I noticed that he has a washer between the castle nut and the top of the spindle. Is this something that is necessary, or just a minor mod? To me it seems like a washer and a bit of lube makes sense, as this part does get a lot of movement. I just can't find any washers that fit. I don't think I missed the washers. I'm just not sure.

The reason that a washer is sometimes used between the castle nut and spindle is to act as a spacer so that the slots in the nut better align (horizontally) with the cotter pin hole on the ball joint stud. Without the washer the nut may be beyond, or nearly beyond the hole. I think there is some variation on the exact hole location depending on the ball joint manufacturer; I've needed to add a hardened washer on some and not on others. I can't see yours clearly in the photo but what you're looking for is to have the 180 degree loop of the pin well seated in the nut's slot. Not quite sure what you are referring to when you mention "...a bit of lube makes sense, as this part does get a lot of movement"??? There is no movement between the spindle, nut and ball joint stud.

Cheers,
Jeff

[edwardb]

I do not have a washer between the top of the spindle and the top castle nut. I reconfirmed that this is the way the instructions specify on Page 46 of the manual. However, when I compared this area with a similar photo posted by Edwardb, I noticed that he has a washer between the castle nut and the top of the spindle. Is this something that is necessary, or just a minor mod? To me it seems like a washer and a bit of lube makes sense, as this part does get a lot of movement. I just can't find any washers that fit. I don't think I missed the washers. I'm just not sure.

Similar comments as already provided by Jeff. The hardened lock washer under the nut on the upper ball joint stud on my build (pictured below) came with the Howe Racing ball joints I used. Using the washer put the nut in just the right place to center the slot in the nut right over the hole for the cotter pin. On my previous build, also with FF spindles but with the FF provided ball joints, I didn't use a washer and one wasn't needed.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/th_IMG_3385_zpsztw8rst5.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Front%20Suspension/IMG_3385_zpsztw8rst5.jpg.html)

I also am confused by your comments about the movement, lube, etc. The ball joint stud is a tapered fit into the spindle, and assuming all is fitting and torqued properly, is tightly held. In fact they can be a bit challenging to get back out they lock in so tight. The only movement in the joint should be between the ball and socket in the ball joint itself. Exactly the same as the lower ball joints and tie rod ends BTW.

[Jazzman]

This evening I decide to tackle the front brake rotors. I assembled the necessary parts, counted the screws and washers, and read the directions two times to be sure I didn't miss anything:
1. Orient the Rotor and hat as shown. Done.
2. Apply red Loctite. Done.
3. Using an alternating sequence, torque bolts to 155 INCH POUNDS . . . bolt breaks off inside hat!

Reread the instructions again twice to be sure you've got it. Yes, 155 INCH POUNDS. Recheck the torque wrench, twice, to be sure it is set to INCH Pounds not Foot Pounds. It was and is set correctly. Reread the directions again just be sure. All is correct. Ok, must be a bad bolt. Try again . . . carefully!!

Torque bolt to 155 INCH Pounds and . . . a second bolt breaks off inside the hat!!!

Now I have two bolts broken off inside the hat, correctly prepared with RED Loctite, and I have no screw removal tools. (Note to self: get a set of bolt and screw removing tools!)

Nothing left to do but call Willwood tomorrow and find out why their instructions are snapping off bolts. This makes me very comfortable knowing that the ability to stop this 2000 lb, 400 horsepower, missile is protected by 12 bolts that I can sheer off with a simple torque wrench!

[edwardb]

Really sorry to hear that. Tell us more about the torque wrench you're using. 155 inch pounds (just less than 13 ft pounds) is not commonly available on most torque wrenches. Normally it takes something special, like a smaller inch pound scale torque wrench to get that setting. It's real easy to pull 155 inch pounds with just a standard breaker bar, and it shouldn't be breaking off those 1/4 inch bolts. Although unfortunately you're not the first I've heard this happen to. You're going to need to use an extraction tool. When you're ready to start backing out the broken bolt, put some good heat on the bolt. Otherwise that red Loctite isn't going to let go.

Just to add to this, I have several torque wrenches. I have a small inch pound one, but its max is 120 inch pounds. Too light. I have a 3/8 drive clicker, but the lowest setting is > 20 ft/lbs. I have a couple 1/2 drive clickers and an electronic 1/2 drive one, but their minimums are > 25 ft lbs. Fortunately I have digital torque adapter. It's a small electronic cube that basically turns any wrench into a torque wrench. Also can be used to check the calibration of a regular torque wrench. The adapter has an inch pound range that allowed me to set 155 inch pounds. I used it with a 1/4 inch ratchet handle, and it's pretty surprising how easy it is to hit 155 inch pounds. That's why I'm asking about your wrench, and also surprised the bolts are breaking if you're really at 155 inch pounds.

[2bking]

It could be the 155 in lb is for dry threads. Loctite is considered a lubricant which reduces the torque at which the bolt will break.

[Jazzman]

As usual you have the answers. It is a craftsman digital torque wrench. When setting/ reading ft/lbs, the readout shows a decimal point: 155.3. When you shift to in/lbs, it drops the decimal until you get below 100 in/lbs. therefore when I saw "1553" I didn't notice that there was no decimal point. Thus I was applying 10 times the torque that was required. Lesson learned. Now how am I going to get those bolts out?!!!

Follow up: yep that was the problem. After resetting the torque wrench, it took no time at all to do the other rotor.

[Jazzman]

Today I received the extraction tools I ordered. Long story short, I applied all the heat my propane torch would offer on the hat, Put in the extractor. . . It breaks off inside the bolt! At that point I decided to just over drill the hole and re tap it for a larger bolt. The first bolt drilled out fine. One to go. Brimming with confidence now. And . . . The drill bit wanders to the softer metal of the hat and I now have a nice large oval hole. I'm not sure there is enough metal there to thread for a bolt. I'll either ignore it and go with 11 bolts in the hat, or buy an entirely new hat. :( One thing is certain: that red loctite has got to be more than enough to keep the two joined together for street use! It surely doesn't come apart easily!

[David Hodgkins]

Today I received the extraction tools I ordered. Long story short, I applied all the heat my propane torch would offer on the hat, Put in the extractor. . . It breaks off inside the bolt! At that point I decided to just over drill the hole and re tap it for a larger bolt. The first bolt drilled out fine. One to go. Brimming with confidence now. And . . . The drill bit wanders to the softer metal of the hat and I now have a nice large oval hole. I'm not sure there is enough metal there to thread for a bolt. I'll either ignore it and go with 11 bolts in the hat, or buy an entirely new hat. :( One thing is certain: that red loctite has got to be more than enough to keep the two joined together for street use! It surely doesn't come apart easily!

No!! Ugh...

Been there, done that, unfortunately. For me it was breaking a bolt in the oil pickup when I was switching out the pan. Sorry you had to experience the "art" of failure, but you learned what NOT to do, and hopefully cranking down a bolt that size in the future will throw a red flag.

It's part of the learning process, unfortunately. I like your attitude about it though. Keep your head up!

:)

[edwardb]

Ouch. Wilwood hat 170-12050 (that's what came with my fronts anyway) are about $160 each. Looks like that's the price of a lesson today. :p I can't remember how many lessons I've had that were more expensive than that. I wouldn't consider not replacing and running with fewer than the designed number of bolts. You could probably get away with it, but brakes are just not a place you want to be cutting any corners IMO. Fortunately looks like they are widely available. What's really surprising though is the SS bolts 1/4-20x.75 long, part number 230-8008, only come in sets of 12 (one wheel) and are $57. I guess they're special because of the drilled heads for safety wire. But good grief! You just need a couple, right? If you're not planning to wire, similar SS cap screws should be fine.

[Jazzman]

Hey, David, this is the fun part,right?!! I am indeed learning. A lot!! And having a ball!! Any thoughts about whether an 8% strength reduction (11 bolts instead of 12) is too much strength reduction? I plan to call Willwood Tuesday to discuss it with them as well.

No Edwardb, I don't plan to wire at this point. Unless someone says I should, it seems like overkill for my purposes. I will get a couple replacement bolts and call it good.

In the meantime, I am installing the calipers on the drivers side. (I decided upon that side because that is the one with the correct rotation for the completed rotor assembly. (I did catch that the rotor is directional, as is the caliper.) The directions say to center the caliper on the rotor, install the pads, and then reattach the calipers using RED Loctite. Given my recent experience with red loctite, I plan to be very sure that I am ready to finally install something before I use it. So here's the question: if I install the calipers with red loctite, how do I replace the brake pads? They install from the bottom, but it appears that access is blocked by other parts unless you can remove the caliper. I'm certainly not going to be able to remove the caliper bolts! It doesn't look like there will be enough space to remove the rotor with the pads installed. What am I missing?

[edwardb]

I agree for street use, safety wiring is overkill. I just wanted to try it, since I've seen it lots of time but never did it myself. Another one of those learning experiences... Red Loctite is potent stuff. As you found out. I've snapped off my share of bolts while using it, and two things come to mind. I don't normally use it for small diameter bolts. I also use it very sparingly. Just a little bit on several bottom threads. Yes, you will have to get those caliper bolts off to change brake pads, if/when that time comes. Probably not by wearing them out, because for street use those pads will last a long time. But maybe you will want to try other pad compounds. Anyway, since those are larger bolts plus hardened not SS like the hat bolts, and as long as you don't overdue it, they should come back out OK. Frankly, probably blue Loctite would be OK. That's what I used on the rest of the suspension where it didn't have locking nuts.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ouch, Sorry man :( I have a dial type inch pound torque wrench dating back to my automatic transmission building days. Hard to read it wrong and since it's only about 12" long it's kind of difficult to put too much torque on something without being aware of it. I've found that it's often not easy to feel or hear the wrench detent in the low ranges when using a "clicker".

http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/attachments/34731-jpg.8132/

I generally use blue on anything that may need to be disassembled for service (such as your calipers) and red for permanent assemblies.

Good luck,
Jeff

[carlewms]

Jazzman ... I did exactly the same thing on my front rotors...

When I finish the build I think I will make a nice but expensive clock face ...

[Jazzman]

Thanks Carl. I am glad to know I am not the only one to ever make that particular mistake. I like the clock face idea. May have to "creatively acquire" that one.

Jeff, I will have to look into that mini-torque wrench. Thanks. I will certainly be very paranoid about torqueing in the future. Especially with RED Loctite involved!!

I talked to my mechanic friend about the red Loctite on the brake calipers. He said that blue Loctite was plenty on those bolts, and I would hate myself when it came time to service the brakes if I used Red Loctite. I decided to go with blue. Just a thought: I have not been using blue on nuts that had nylocks or on the deformed nuts. Should I go back and reinstall with blue Loctite, or is that just "belts and suspenders"?

I have sort of worked my way into a corner on most projects, so I am going to move back into trying to run the brake and fuel lines. I am trying to figure out what clips to use to hold the hard lines in place. I know what I think I need, but don't know what to call them or where to get them. I need a small clip with one or two places to hold hard lines that can be riveted to the frame. What did you use to hold your hard lines in place? I am thinking of following Edwardb's lead and using the FFR provided lines to practice on, and then buy stainless steel lines to make once I am sure how each line will run. I also need to pick up a tube bending kit. Do you have a set you recommend?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just a thought: I have not been using blue on nuts that had nylocks or on the deformed nuts. Should I go back and reinstall with blue Loctite, or is that just "belts and suspenders"?

Don't mix Locktite and nylocks; it degrades the nylon insert. Ultimately Blue Locktite has a higher yield torque than nylocks but with our cars the applications where FFR provides nylock fasteners are generally in shear (coilover mounts for example) where the nylon locking fastener is more than sufficient.


... I am going to move back into trying to run the brake and fuel lines. I am trying to figure out what clips to use to hold the hard lines in place. I know what I think I need, but don't know what to call them or where to get them....

I use these:

http://terminalsupplyco.com/_assets/CatalogImages/RBC_LG.JPG

http://terminalsupplyco.com/Store/Default.aspx?CAT=RC050#Categories

Or this style:

https://e2x3s6i4.ssl.hwcdn.net/main/store/20090519001/items/media/Electrical/GardnerBender/ProductLarge/PPR-1550.jpg

http://www.jttproducts.com/store/products/368/Insulated-Cable-Clamps

Called "insulated clamps" or "cable clamps" they are available from any number of online retailers as well as in the big box stores like Lowes, however didn't you get a bag of them in a couple of different sizes with your kit? Every one I have ever built included some (I usually wind up purchasing more or other sizes).

Cheers,
Jeff

[WIS89]

Jazz-

I agree with Jeff above on both the loctite answer as well as the clamps. I am fairly sure those clamps are provided with the kit as well. However, if you want something fancier to hold the hard lines, do a search for "line clamps" at any of the major retailers (Summit, Jegs, etc.), and you should find plenty of good choices.

Regards,

Steve

[rickscobra]

I received the bag of assorted clamps with my 20th Anniversary "Stealth".

I also broke off on of the SS bolts in the process of torqueing them down. Got lucky and after about ten minutes, was able to extract the remaining bolt with an easy out. Replaced it with a socket headed bolt.

Related to the lock tite discussion, after installing my red lock tited upper control arm ball joints wrong, I was able to dis-assemble them using a moderate amount of heat. Heat is the only way you will ever get red lock tite to budge.

Still having fun!!

[Jazzman]

Thanks to all for the suggestions and commiserating on the rotor hat. I have ordered a new one. I also appreciate the many suggestions and comments on the brake and fuel line clips. I found my supply in Box #14. Don't ask me how they got there. They weren't there when I did the inventory!! I am sure I put them there, but have no idea when or why. Oh well.

In the past couple of days I have finished attaching the tie rod ends to the front spindles and checked every bolt on the IFS. Here is how it came out:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49811&d=1453086237
That is a really hinkey twist in the steering rod ends, but It looks like the pictures and operates as expected. It took a bit of trial and error to get the tie rod ends screwed on to the right length so that the wheels are generally parallel and centered. I am sure there will be some adjusting after I get tires, an engine, etc. . . .

Now I know it is somewhat childish to put the wheel on, but since the instructions told me to do so to make sure nothing rubs, I do what I am told. Yeah, it is pretty cool to see it on there!! I even took a quick movie of it spinning freely, but haven't figured out how load a movie here.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49810&d=1453086234

I also began running the fuel lines. I first tried to place the fuel filter using the supplied plastic fuel line and white clip ends as specified in the instructions. I'm not sure why, but that plastic fuel line is about 6-7" too short to get the location that is specified in the instructions. Furthermore, I felt like with all the IRS stuff in the area that the fuel filter was supposed to be in, it might be difficult to replace. By putting the fuel filter behind the 1.5x1.5" diagonal frame rail, I think it will be much easier to get at. I have installed it with 5/16" rubber hose from the pump to the filter. However, after talking to EdwardB, He convinced me to go with 3/8" tubing instead. I am going to remove the rubber hoses, and use entirely SS tubing. One more thing to add to the shopping list.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49812&d=1453086239

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49816&d=1453086249

I have a bunch of clips and fittings, and have gotten to work on the first brake line. I began with the one from the 0.750 master cylinder to the DS brake connection with the flexible line to the DS caliper. I have to admit, I am really proud of my very first solid brake line. Custom bent to fit, and it fits perfectly!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49813&d=1453086240

I found a very helpful tool for creating nice even curves without a tube bending set. I have always appreciated the curves of this particular tool, but found a very useful purpose for the "waist" of the tool: It bends perfect curves to fit these purposes!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49815&d=1453086246
It was also quite refreshing!!

I took this picture to show the install of the brake line, but it also brings up another question. I have not yet ordered the CNC brake/clutch fluid triple reservoir. I did begin fitting the hoses for the brake fluid reservoir. It looks like the picture in the manual, but I wonder if there should be hose clamps on each of those connections to the red hose. I am concerned that they might leak, or worse be pressed off, when I apply the brakes and the pressure increases in the master cylinders. Thoughts?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49814&d=1453086242

[edwardb]

More good progress! I tend to agree with you. Those brake reservoir hoses probably should have some kind of clamp. If you try to pull them back apart, you'll find those barbs hold pretty tight. But I used those small EFI style clamps on my last build. Those or some type of spring clamp would be good safety practice IMO. That's just gravity feed through those lines though. There's no pressure from the MC when the brakes are applied. Since you plumbed those how FF shows with the common feed, you could just use the double CNC reservoir. One for brakes, the other for clutch. Or use the kit supplied one for brakes and buy another from FF and use for the clutch.

[Jazzman]

That's a really good idea, Edwardb! I already have one nice looking reservoir from FFR, I could just get another one to match and call it good. Interesting. I notice that you have used the three CNC reservoir set. Why? one each for front and rear brakes, one for clutch? Do you still have the Chrome FFR reservoir that came with your kit? Would you be interested in selling it?!! PM me if so.

Now can someone please tell me what that 2.5" hole is for in the front of the DS footbox? I have been looking through the manual and my parts, and I can't find anything large enough to require that size hole. I fear this may be something necessary for donor parts which I don't need. Should I have covered it up before I had the panel powder coated? Now what should I do with it?!!

[2bking]

I'm not sure what the hole is intended for but I covered it and the other one with these part I made on a press.
49820 49821

[rickscobra]

That's a really good idea, Edwardb! I already have one nice looking reservoir from FFR, I could just get another one to match and call it good. Interesting. I notice that you have used the three CNC reservoir set. Why? one each for front and rear brakes, one for clutch? Do you still have the Chrome FFR reservoir that came with your kit? Would you be interested in selling it?!! PM me if so.

Now can someone please tell me what that 2.5" hole is for in the front of the DS footbox? I have been looking through the manual and my parts, and I can't find anything large enough to require that size hole. I fear this may be something necessary for donor parts which I don't need. Should I have covered it up before I had the panel powder coated? Now what should I do with it?!!

Related to the reservoir choice, I bought two additional FFR reservoirs and mounted them in the same place as Edwardb. I think their cylindrical shape fits nicely with the over all design of the car. FFR sells them for $50 each.

My kit came with covers for the holes in the DS foot box holes, along with one to cover the clutch cable exit hole, which is not used when converting to the Forte hydraulic clutch.

Rick

[edwardb]

That's a really good idea, Edwardb! I already have one nice looking reservoir from FFR, I could just get another one to match and call it good. Interesting. I notice that you have used the three CNC reservoir set. Why? one each for front and rear brakes, one for clutch? Do you still have the Chrome FFR reservoir that came with your kit? Would you be interested in selling it?!! PM me if so.

Now can someone please tell me what that 2.5" hole is for in the front of the DS footbox? I have been looking through the manual and my parts, and I can't find anything large enough to require that size hole. I fear this may be something necessary for donor parts which I don't need. Should I have covered it up before I had the panel powder coated? Now what should I do with it?!!

Yes, the three reservoir CNC system uses one each for front and rear brakes and one for the hydraulic clutch. Using a separate reservoir for the front and rear MC's is a common practice, but routing them into one like FF shows is OK too. Sorry, another forum member already bought the FF one from my kit. As Rick said, they're available directly from FF, and would be cheaper than the CNC part if you want to go that way. That large hole in the front panel is for the front wiring harness (headlights, running lights, horn, fan, etc.). It's obviously way too big for the RF harness. Maybe it needs to be that big for a donor harness? Regardless, FF supplies a cover piece that you can rivet over and then drill a much smaller hole and with a grommet route the RF harness through. Attach before or after PC is up to you. No matter the filler piece for the 3/4 inch tube to go through the front panel has to be added during assembly after PC. I like those pieces King made. Nice!

[2bking]

I like those pieces King made. Nice!
Maybe there is enough interest for me to punch out a few?

[Jazzman]

King does really good work!! Perhaps there is enough interest now, King! Very nice part, simple and effective. Too late for me, as I have already PC'ed and mounted mine, complete with insulation mat, but others may really appreciate the part. I am going to have to look back in the various pieces of bare aluminum to see if, like Rick, my kit came with a cover plate. I also wonder why FFR doesn't just make the panel solid, and let us cut our own holes. I vaguely remember seeing another provider making solid replacement panels for that part with no holes at all. (can't remember who at the moment.) I am even debating buying one and starting over. Haven't decided on that yet. I would hate to drill out all those rivets, but it might make routing the rear brake line and clutch line easier. Hmmm. One more thing to think about.

[David Hodgkins]

Kevin,

Regarding your fuel filter setup, since you will be pressurizing that line - the one between the tank and the filter - you will need to put the clamp on the other side of that ridge. I was able to use the supplied plastic hose. Here's what mine looks like:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29535&d=1401375402

It looks like the mounting place would work with the supplied hose so maybe go back and see if you can make it fit?

:)

[Jazzman]

Here is a cardboard template I made to see If I wanted to just get a second FFR fluid reservoir. I think the shape and size will work out fine. I am a bit concerned about the location, right over the headers, but that is pretty much where the manual says to put it, and where the CNC reservoirs would be anyway. The lids are level with the top of the frame rail, so they should not interfere with the hood. I'm not sure how this might interfere with wiring, but I plan to run the wireloom on the outside of the same frame rail, so it should not interfere. I will even use the same attachment points to both hold the reservoir bracket and the wireloom. What do you think? Have I missed anything obvious?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49827&d=1453132096

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49828&d=1453132098

[David Hodgkins]

I'd put the bracket on the inside of the 3/4" tube, not the outside as shown above. It will clear the body better that way. I also mount mine just a little more toward the front of the car...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42240&d=1432831088

:)

[David Hodgkins]

Regarding fuel line routing, here's how I did mine. It may not be the ultimate way to do it but it's how I did it. ;)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46049&d=1443450927

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46050&d=1443450928

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=46048&d=1443450926

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40343&d=1428511638

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40341&d=1428511636

[Jazzman]

Well the Ace Hardware tube flaring kit is a complete waste of money. The tube just slips right through the jaws. What tube flaring kit do you use and recommend?

I did go ahead and order a second brake/clutch fluid reservoir from FFR. I like the look and at least I won't waste money on throwing this one away. Now I need to find a 6" square piece of sheet aluminum, at least 3/32" thick. Surprisingly hard to find locally. I know where I can get it, but it is a 45 minute drive, and they are not particularly helpful. (They are if you need 1000 feet of steel, but for small parts, pretty poor service.)

[David Hodgkins]

What are you flaring? I was able to do my brake and fuel lines without having to do any flair. If you need one though Eastwood makes a good one...

I can get you some aluminum. I have a good metal supply place near me. Want me to pick it up and mail to you?

:)

[edwardb]

x2 on the Eastwood flaring tool. Pretty much mandatory for something like stainless. Killer for other materials as well, but at $200 there are other options. I have some scrap pieces of 3/16 aluminum sheet here in my scrap bin. Leftover from another project. PM the exact dimension you need and your address. Happy to send a piece your way.

[Jazzman]

David, I am going to follow Edwardb's lead and put in 3/8" stainless fuel lines, which will require flaring. I also have routed the front brake line across the X brace, and it took far less distance than the allotted 60" length of brake line. I will have to look into the Eastwood set. $200 is significantly more than I had planned, but I want to do it right. Thanks for the offer of going to get a piece of aluminum for me. I really appreciate the willingness. I am going to PM Edwardb and see if he has a scrap he can mail to me.

Follow up to the Ace Hardware flare tool: I attempted to return it, showing them both the tool and the tube that slipped, and their attitude was "too bad, no returns, store credit only". I had no choice but to take it, but lesson learned, don't buy tools at Ace Hardware. Fittings and bolts perhaps, but not tools. Worst of all the "store credit" is only listed on one register receipt that I now have to keep in my wallet until I use it up. They don't even keep records of it in their bookkeeping! On the upside, it never expires, except if I lose the receipt!!

[2bking]

David, I am going to follow Edwardb's lead and put in 3/8" stainless fuel lines,.... Worst of all the "store credit" is only listed on one register receipt that I now have to keep in my wallet until I use it up. They don't even keep records of it in their bookkeeping! On the upside, it never expires, except if I lose the receipt!!
The fuel line calculations show that the 5/16" line is sufficient for the supply side and 1/4" for the return, even for engines up to 500 HP. The EFI systems push the fuel through the lines rather than suck like the engine mounted fuel pumps did in days past so the larger lines are not needed unless you have some engine upgrades planned for the future. I purchased the 3/8" stainless line and decided not to use it. I used the FFR kit supplied 5/16" and 1/4" line.

Now about that receipt, be wary of the thermal printed receipts that have disappearing ink.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The fuel line calculations show that the 5/16" line is sufficient for the supply side and 1/4" for the return, even for engines up to 500 HP...

Agreed.

Jeff

[Jazzman]

Before I button up the DS footbox, I need to do something about putting in an hydraulic clutch master cylinder and hook it into the overflow reservoir. I know I have read of several builders installing a hydraulic clutch kit. I have searched this forum, and I can't seem to find the source of such a kit. I thought it was Forte, but I couldn't find it on his website. Then I looked at Breeze. Perhaps (Likely!) I don't know how to search for the kit or parts I will need. Can someone that has installed this mod please tell me from what vendor you found the kit. Thanks for the help.

[edwardb]

Before I button up the DS footbox, I need to do something about putting in an hydraulic clutch master cylinder and hook it into the overflow reservoir. I know I have read of several builders installing a hydraulic clutch kit. I have searched this forum, and I can't seem to find the source of such a kit. I thought it was Forte, but I couldn't find it on his website. Then I looked at Breeze. Perhaps (Likely!) I don't know how to search for the kit or parts I will need. Can someone that has installed this mod please tell me from what vendor you found the kit. Thanks for the help.

The one many of us use is from Forte's. You need to call to order. Based on engine, bell housing, and trans Mike will set you up.

[Jazzman]

Still working on brake and fuel lines. I think the second one, for the front going from DS to PS, came out almost perfectly. It is much shorter than the allotted 60", so this is one that will have to be flared.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49908&d=1453273827

Based upon wise counsel, I pulled out the fuel filter because the location was going to conflict with the brake line routing. Since I don't have rear spindles, rotors or brakes for the IRS, I am sort of filling in where I can. I noticed this heavy frame item. It looks like it may be designed to carry one of the other types of rear suspension, but thus far I cannot figure out what attaches to this when using the IRS. Am I correct?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49909&d=1453273829

Now if I am right and this chunk of steel ends up having nothing attached to it, I had an idea of how to use it quite effectively. Conceptually, what about using this as the termination point for the rear brake lines? The photo just shows the flexible brake line running through the hole, but obviously it would be appropriately mounted in similar fashion to the front brake line termination point. This does seem to put the brake line almost exactly where it will need to be. What do you think?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49910&d=1453273831

[edwardb]

Now if I am right and this chunk of steel ends up having nothing attached to it, I had an idea of how to use it quite effectively. Conceptually, what about using this as the termination point for the rear brake lines? The photo just shows the flexible brake line running through the hole, but obviously it would be appropriately mounted in similar fashion to the front brake line termination point. This does seem to put the brake line almost exactly where it will need to be. What do you think?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=49910&d=1453273831

No, those brackets aren't used for your IRS suspension. But I would advise against them for the brake lines. That location is only a couple inches away from the inside of the rear wheel rim. It's going to be a little tough to route them properly and stay away from the wheel without some really harsh bends. I'd recommend you wait until you have all the parts and can mount the wheel and then see what location provides the best routing, takes into account the suspension movement, etc. Where I put them (same as FF and pictured in my build thread) looks to work OK, and I'm sure there are other locations that could work as well. But I wouldn't recommend that one.

[AZPete]

Jazzman, I'm enjoying your build thread. Since we both live in Scottsdale, if you would like to borrow my Eastwood Flaring tool, let me know. I built & sold a Mk3 and have an 818 nearly on the road. Now looking forward to some Barrett-Jackson beers next week.
I sent you a PM with cell number.
Pete

[Jazzman]

It has been an exhausting two days, none of it devoted to the Roadster. We helped my 90 year old in-laws prepare to downsize from their 1/2 acre home of 40+ years to a 2 bedroom apartment. Tough time for all concerned, but all turned out well in the end.

The thing that has buoyed up my spirits is the friendship of people on this forum that I have not even met in person. You people are amazing!! On Wednesday I received a package from EdwardB of a piece of aluminum that I will need to fabricate a bracket for my fluid reservoirs. On Thursday I had a series of conversations with SkullandBones. He is willing to help me with my brake line flaring issue. He even called in another friend that will also be willing to help. Then yesterday, AZPete contacts me and is willing let me borrow the tool I need from him! Wow!! The generosity of the members of this forum is absolutely wonderful. I have been so busy the past few days that I have not had a chance to formally thank all of you. I ask your forgiveness for that oversight. I look forward to 1) paying forward EdwardB's generosity, 2) meeting with SkullandBones and his friend, and 3) meeting AzPete to see his 818. (I will have to go looking for your build thread Pete!) Thank you all so very much!!

(The rear spindles and hubs for the IRS arrived sometime in the last few days. I was so busy I didn't realize that my son had put them in the shop without telling me! More on that process coming soon . . .)

[AZPete]

Jazzman, don't waste time looking for my build thread. I don't have a build thread because it's so hard to find stuff in them, but I post by category in the 818 forum when I think I have something useful. Call my cell or send a PM and we can arrange a time to meet and get the Eastwood flare kit, or see my 818 if you like. Next week I'll be at Barrett-Jackson a lot so perhaps meet there?
Pete

[Jazzman]

It has been a very exciting, but not particularly productive week. This week is the Barrett Jackson Auto Auction. I am lucky enough to live in Scottsdale where the biggest of them all is held each year in January. I can't guess how many cars are auctioned off over the course of the week, but it is well in excess of 1200. Almost every collectible car is on display, and some are simply amazing. I went three times this year. I saw a decent number of Cobra replicas, and even one actual original. Inspiration can drawn from each one, but the greatest takeaway was that quality shows! There were a lot of the replicas that obviously had shoddy workmanship, poor care, or both. I was only able to spot two actual Factory Five Roadsters. One was a raffle car raising money for Disabled Veterans, and the other was a display car that was not for sale. There may well have been others, but I didn't spot them. Tuesday I had the pleasure of spending several hours with AZPete as we walked around looking at cars. He is a great guy, very knowledgeable and engaging. Tomorrow I will go to his home to see his 818 build and borrow an eastwood flaring tool. The fun continues!!

I did get a little bit of time to work on the car this week. I finished the PS front brakes after purchasing a replacement Willwood brake hat. It all looks like the DS, only reversed, so I won't waste your time with additional pictures here. After waiting for almost a month to get the differential vent, I finally was able to pick it up from Ford.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50146&d=1454219795

The problem is that the geniuses at Ford didn't order the piece that connects the end of the vent tube to the differential. The hole in the differential is not threaded, so it must be a rubber fitting of some sort. The end of the vent tube is a 90 degree angle rubber hose, so it must be a barbed fitting. The trouble is that when I asked the genius at the Ford parts desk for the part, he told me that they didn't have it and that it was on backorder - with no current date for delivery. I asked him for the part number and he told me it didn't have one!! I would really love to be able to just order up the part and have it delivered to my door by mail. Does anybody have a good online source for Ford parts? Does anyone know the part number for the missing connector? This delay causes a waterfall of backups: I can't install the trunk floor until the batter box is installed, which I can't install until the rear brake line is installed, which I can't install until the battery box is installed, which I can't install until the differential vent is installed!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50148&d=1454219798

I got the fuel lines installed. I purchased a new tube bender because I was concerned that the 5/16" tubing might be a bit much for me to bend around the Coke bottle. I am glad I did, but I was less than entirely impressed by the bender results. The tubing ended up having a just a little bit of a flat spot on one side. It is not enough to cause any problems with flow, it just is annoying since my other bends are nice and smooth. Oh well. It's done.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50149&d=1454219799

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50150&d=1454219800

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50151&d=1454219801

I finished preparing all the sheet aluminum for powder coating. (Note to self: Next time do all the powder coating at once!!) I drilled most of the holes, but left some of them for drilling at final assembly. Some of the panels are not fitting back together exactly as expected. I want to get the pieces in place and not moving before I drill the final holes at that time. I can't really install the cockpit aluminum anyway until the trunk floor is installed. And we already know what is stopping that process. I am going over everything to make sure I only have to do one more batch of powder coating.

While at the Barrett-Jackson today, I noticed some of the really nice cars had powder coated parts that could only be seen from the underside of the car. One in particular was the driveshaft. I got to thinking this might be a nice touch. Can I powder coat the driveshaft without damaging it? It looks like it has plastic fittings where the four way shafts intersect the main parts:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50152&d=1454222456

Will the plastic fittings be damaged by the oven heat of the powder coating process? It looks like this joint could be taken apart, but I didn't want to go too far without counsel. What's your opinion? (I don't know how comfortable I am that those parts are plastic anyway!!) Oh well.

[Jazzman]

I bought a "new" (used) air compressor. The size is about as much as my garage can reasonably handle. It is quite loud so I hesitate to use it at night for fear of waking the neighbors, or worse still, my slumbering bride! I did discover that it needed some serious overhaul. I had to remove, reseal, tighten almost every fitting. After it was all done, it still leaked. So I took apart the only remaining fitting, the only one that didn't seem to be leaking, and discovered that the valve was shot. With a bit of internet searching, I found the part, found a source, ordered it up, and $22 later, I have a new compressor. It still leaks a bit, but not enough to worry about. I just cant leave it on, as it will keep itself topped off to 145lbs, and do it several times during the night.

With the new compressor working, It was time to tackle the rear spindles. I cut off the ears as instructed. I have to say that was a slow and nerve-racking procedure. They came off without any particular drama, other than being loud. I had just received replacement 24 volt batteries from Ridgid for my Sawsall, and I really put it to the test. I got one ear completely off and the other about 75% done before the first battery gave out. Not bad for such heavy work.

I am beginning to see that working on aluminum is sort of similar to working with really hard wood. After cutting off the ears with a Sawsall and a wood blade (12 teeth/inch), I smoothed the cut off area using the 40 grit belt on my sanding station. It worked great. It looks like it was meant to be that way.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50153&d=1454225983

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50154&d=1454225983

I then pulled out the die grinder and attacked the mold lines on the spindles. No, they don't have to be smoothed out, but I can't let EdwardB have all the fun. I am stealing his procedure entirely. With a couple more sessions with the grinder and several pads, I think they will be ready for duplicolor paint. I haven't found a source for that locally. I will have to check at Summit. (Other source suggestions?) I am also finding that I go through the die grinder pads pretty quickly. Buying them from Home Depot in small starter packs is getting pretty expensive. Suggestions on where to buy good quality die grinder pads in somewhat larger volumes to save a bit of money?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50155&d=1454225984

I next attacked the hubs. Getting the bolts out wasn't too tough with a 5lb sledge hammer. It was getting them back in that took some doing. I tried the "tighten then nut on the bolt" method, but I could not hold on to the hub tightly enough to tighten the nuts. I gave up and went back to the more primitive method driving the bolts in with the sledge hammer. It seemed to work just fine, but boy did my right arm hurt after driving in all ten bolts!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50156&d=1454225985

[edwardb]

My center section already had the vent fitting. Probably since it was a zero miles take-out unit. Just a quick search I see the new units Ford Racing is selling doesn't have the fitting. Just a yellow plug. Nice. The fitting is aluminum, and appears to be pressed in. Probably with a little red Loctite (your favorite ;)). I stopped buying parts at my local Ford dealer. Way easier to find on-line, know the availability, and have shipped to my door. Even with shipping charges, with the discounted pricing usually cheaper. I use Tasca Parts, and they've given me great service. There are others. I think ihis is the part you're looking for: http://www.tascaparts.com/ford/mustang/2l1z4022ba/2015-year/gt-trim/5-0l-v8-gas-engine/rear-suspension-cat/axle-and-differential-scat/?part_name=vent. If nothing else, the part number is 2L1Z-4022-BA and with that your local dealer should be able to get it.

Our local auto parts stores -- Auto Zone, Advance, O'Reilly -- all have a pretty full selection of Duplicolor products. Summit has it too, and in a pinch I think I bought some from them once. But you should be able to find the normal stuff on the shelf locally.

I wouldn't put that driveshaft in a powder coat oven. And for sure I wouldn't try to take it apart. The plastic seals are quite typical. Those are high quality Dana Spicer u-joints, so nothing to worry about there. I guess if you really wanted to you could put some rattle can spray on it. Just mask off the slip joint and the end of the yoke. But it's completely hidden when the car is on the ground. Plus the grey color kind of matches the transmission. It's new, it's clean. Personally I'd leave it alone.

I'd like to get to a Barret-Jackson auction some time. A buddy of mine goes to the one in Vegas every year and has a great time. I've watched some of the current Scottsdale event on TV. Just last night during Saturday prime time the prices were going crazy. Every car across the block with multiple hundred thousand sell prices. Just a bit rich for my blood.

[RRussellTx]

I got my vent tube a vent fitting here:
http://www.oemfordpart.com/ford/mustang/2l1z4022ba/2015-year/gt-trim/5-0l-v8-gas-engine/rear-suspension-cat/axle-and-differential-scat/?part_name=vent

I went ahead and ordered a new set with my diff cover that had to be replaced from damage during shipping. I just pressed this out of the old damaged one. PM me your address and I can mail it to you if you would like it - but at less than 10 bucks a new one is probably the way to go if you can find it.

50158

[Jazzman]

I am waiting for parts, so things are kind of slow. I still need rear brakes, CV axels, powder coated parts, etc. While I am waiting I am double checking my work. I was just not happy with the routing of the front brake line crossover piece. I decided to buy a new tube and rebend it to go in front of the x member rather than behind.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50278&d=1454571203

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50280&d=1454571207

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50281&d=1454571208

[Jazzman]

During this downtime, I am going through every box and part and collecting everything that needs to be powder coated. I am hoping to take one last load of parts in for coating. Most of them are easily identifiable, and have been added to the box for hammered Silver parts or the bag of gloss black parts. However I have a few parts I just can't identify.

First, what are these? They look like they might be related to the exhaust system, but I don't even have an exhaust system yet.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50282&d=1454571211

Second, what are these? They look similar to the small brackets for the front brakes where the hard brake lines connect to the flexible brake lines at the wheels. I have been looking for the rear brackets for this purpose, but these are definitely slightly different than the front ones. Most importantly, the opening is not round like the front bracket. So what say you?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50283&d=1454571212

Thanks for your help identifying these random pieces.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The 3 items in the first photo are spacers which are used with a donor master cylinder. The two tabs in the second are for mounting OEM/donor rubber brake line hoses. None of these will be used for your build.

Jeff

[NukeMMC]

Save the master cylinder spacers, though. There are folks on here who use them when doing the Whitby power brake setup and if they have a complete kit, they may not have them, but would use 1 or 2.

[Jazzman]

Sorry for not updating this thread more recently. The past few weeks have been mostly about the waiting. I'm still waiting for minor parts which are holding up more major processes. I'm still waiting on that silly little plastic differential vent plug. I have lost track of how long now, but I think I started trying to get it six weeks ago. It was on backorder til 2/12, now it is 2/18. Who knows when it will arrive. Oh well, what little time I have had, I have stayed busy.

About a week ago, I jumped in and cut out the cross bars that formed the trunk floor. I decided I didn't want them running through the dropped trunk floor box. I cut them out with the sabre saw, then ground down the remaining bits with the die grinder.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50651&d=1455517722

I then started cutting and fitting the replacement parts. I started with the rear rail. A friend brought over his MIG welder and began teaching me how to weld. I discovered something important: Welding is a lot like learning to play the bass. It is surprisingly easy to learn the basics, but it then takes and immense amount of work to really get good at it! Here are my first welds. Not terrible, but certainly not up to the FFR standard that I see all over the frame. I still have a lot to learn, but I think it will do.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50650&d=1455517721

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50655&d=1455517724

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50653&d=1455517723

I got all the remaining parts back from the powder coater. I started by installing the floor on the passengers side. No real problems. I put the emergency brake together, got it installed. Next lesson, If you are going to use some combination of Carl and Edwardb's emergency brake modification, don't rivet down the floor until you complete the installation of the emergency brakes. I think I can get the hole drilled for the pulley wheels, but it is going to be tight. I forgot to order the pulleys from McMaster, so I will have to wait on completing that project, and thus wait on installing the drivers floor.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50646&d=1455517719

I began fabricating the lower console for the dash. Without a metal brake, I had to improvise. Bending that aluminum sheeting is not easy. The bends ended up pretty good. Somewhere between a high school sophomore auto shop project and an apprentice at an auto shop, but not too bad. It ended up being too tall to fit between the bottom of the standard dash panel and the top panel over the transmission tunnel. I think it needs to be about 3/16" to 1/4" shorter. I was able to use the left over front panel from the DS footbox. I will have to remake it, but It was good exercise.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50647&d=1455517720

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50649&d=1455517721

[dougski]

Jazzman,
I think your bends look just fine. I have a small 20" brake that makes nice sharp clean bends but it is amazing how often I cannot use it because of a previous bend on the workpiece and so on. What technique did you use to produce your bends?

[Jazzman]

You're going to laugh when I tell you, but it worked ok. First, I clamped the short side of the bend (the 3/4" side) into the 16" wide wood vise on my bench. I then used a small piece of plywood to push the entire panel over at once. I clamped the plywood to the aluminum sheet to start the bend and keep the pressure applied equally. after I got the initial bend started, I removed the clamps, but continued to use the plywood to push over the aluminum panel. After it was almost fully flat, I then used a dead blow hammer on top of the plywood on top of the panel to set the corner and make it look sharp. The first three sides were ok to do this way, the last side was much more challenging. After building the entire panel, I discovered that my finished size was too large by at least 1/4" I will have to find a way to re-bend this one, or completely re-make the piece. It did help that the first bent edge was already done. (The piece it was cut off of the original DS footbox front panel.) I will probably just remake the piece. The practice will be good for me.

In order to complete the dash I envision, I am going to have to fabricate a lower dash panel that I have already tried, then two sides to enclose the lower box area under the primary dash panel. I am going to get one of the hand tools that EdwardB recommended at Harbor Freight. I am hoping that this might help to keep the bends clean, or clean up ones that didn't quite work right. I may have to break down and buy a brake. I really don't want to invest the money or the shop real estate in something like this. Time will tell.

It was a physically demanding effort. I am glad I don't have to do it all day, every day!

[Jazzman]

This little sucker has held up progress for weeks! It finally arrived a few days ago. Note for other builders: When you order the IRS differential vent assembly, be sure to order one of these too! They don't come packaged together, and apparently the fine folks at the Ford parts counter never thought to ask if I needed it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51073&d=1456608545

I could finally cut and fit the mustang vent tube into the Roadster. Nothing particularly difficult or time consuming.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51074&d=1456608546

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51075&d=1456608547

Next I decided to drain and refill the center section just to be sure it had fresh fluids. It is quite clear that it will be much easier to do this now before all the sheet aluminum is permanently installed and the battery box is in place. (It will be do-able later, but it will be a frustratingly tight workspace!!) I now believe that it was not necessary to do this. When I drained out the existing gear lubricant, it was perfectly clear. It didn't look as if the center section had even been turned over! Oh well, now I know for sure. Live and learn.

I have always been very pleased with the Mobil 1 synthetic products that I have used in my other cars. So off to O'Reilly I go to get gear oil and friction modifier. I found the 75W-90, and was assured that this was an acceptable replacement for the Ford specified 75W-85 Gear Oil. This is the only friction modifier they had, so I bought it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51076&d=1456608547

After I got home, I notice the following notation on the Mobil 1 Synthetic Gear Lubricant LS 75W-90 bottle: "Limited Slip Friction Modifier Included"

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51077&d=1456608548

So should I use the little bottle of LubeGard Limited Slip Suppliment?

Next up, the battery box. (FINALLY!!!)

[Jazzman]

Progress is slow these days, but still moving forward. After installing the battery box, I realized that I needed a place to ground the battery. The obvious choice was to use the location indicated in the manual, but to attach it on the underside instead of on top. Note to self and others: it would be much easier to grind off the powder coating on the underside of the trunk floor before the installation of all the rear suspension gear! Oh well, with a bit of extra effort and some rather odd body positions, I got the powder coat removed and the negative line attached. Here's a photo looking up from the floor to the underside of the trunk floor.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51380&d=1457505744

I began to mock up the console that I want underneath the main dash. I began by making all the parts in cardboard (several times) and taping them together to get them to fit just right. Next I cut the aluminum panel that goes on top of the tunnel at the right point so that the back 2/3rds of it could be removed for maintenance if necessary. This was another one of those "no turning back" moments: once it was cut, the only way out if it didn't work was to order a new one from FFR.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51381&d=1457505744

I then began the process of making each custom piece. Lessons: It is hard to get a really sharp, nice looking bend in sheet aluminum without a sheet metal brake. So far I have done all of the bend work by clamping the piece in my wood vise and bending the remaining material with a sheet of plywood, finishing off the bend by striking the plywood sheet with a sledge hammer to set the corner and make it sharp. For the most part it worked pretty well. Not perfect, but I think good enough once you get all the surfaces covered with leather, carpet, wood, etc.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51382&d=1457505745

After a lot of work (and re-work) I finally got it done. All the pieces are just screwed together temporarily. The blank dashboard arrived last week, but I will not begin working on it until I am sure I am ready to go with all the various decisions that have to be made.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51383&d=1457505746

I am considering buying a brake, but at $500 for a good one, i'm not sure I can justify it. Yes, I know there are cheaper ones, but I hate buying cheap tools. We'll see how that transpires. I am also finding that I need to get an air nibbler to cut sheet aluminum. Cutting it with a sabre saw works, but its slow and wastes a lot of blades. You can cut it on your table saw with a carbide bit if you are very, VERY, careful! If you are not very careful, it will bite and come flying back at you at high speed. (Again, ask me how I know!!) The cuts will heal. So a nibbler is the next tool. I still have more sheet metal work to do.

[edwardb]

Looking good! You should be able to do some interesting things with that console. I don't like buying cheap tools either. But the little 30 inch bending brake for about $50 from Harbor Freight will do most of the bends you might need. I've used it for three builds now and made countless parts. It's not very fancy, has definite limitations, but is still way better than manually bending with straight edges and hammers. I too would like a real brake, but have avoid spending the $$ so far. Maybe some day. I'm surprised you're having trouble with a sabre saw. I do most of my cuts on a band saw, if it fits. But also do a bunch with my sabre saw. The finest metal cutting blade along with the edge supported is actually pretty smooth. And I have only used 2-3 blades in three builds. I looked at a nibbler, and almost bought one once. But then I saw all the little discs it throws off while cutting and decided to stick with my woodworking tools. Carry on!

[2bking]

A band saw did most of my contour trimming and cutting the sheets to fit in the 40" shear. This tool works for trimming panels already installed (like the rear panel for fitting the body) and cutting down big sheets and its about $40 at Eastwood. It cuts the .040 aluminum like butter.
51387

[Jazzman]

Trying to kill time waiting for CV axels and rear brakes, I decided to dive into the wiring harness. So far, no major problems, but there is not much room inside the DS footbox!! (Yeah, I know, not news!!) After getting the main harness wormed into its location, I started with the front harness because it looked like the most straight forward. (Joke not intended, but at 11:45pm, what do you expect!!) I had to buy a 1.25" hole saw, which delayed the start of this process, then had to bring the block off plate onto the front harness from the front end of that harness because the multi wired plugs won't fit through the 1.25" hole.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51547&d=1458024066

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51542&d=1458024063

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51543&d=1458024064

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51544&d=1458024064

When I got to the radiator area, I did what seemed to be instructed, but I am concerned that this wiring is just too close to a heat source. Should I find a way to move the harness away from the radiator, or should I wrap the harness to protect from heat?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51545&d=1458024065

I found an extra off-shoot from the main harness that was designated "for Hot-Rod Only". Can this be removed, should I just bury it, what is the best way to deal with this? Are there any wires there that I might need for other purposes in my car?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51546&d=1458024066

I was thrilled, then almost got a hernia, when I discovered my CV axels on the front porch. I don't know who made them, but they are stout pieces! I think I read that the shipping weight for the two of them was over 45lbs! It's too late to start that project tonight, but that will be job one tomorrow night. Now if Wilwood will just send my rear brakes, I can finish my brake lines and begin buttoning up the rear end. Hello, Wilwood . . .

[carlewms]

Jazzman,

I am not sure what brand FFR uses but here are the temperature specs on the stuff McMaster Carr sells ...

Polyethylene—Temperature range is -40° to 200° F. Flame-retardant polyethylene meets UL 94V2.
High-Strength Nylon—Has better impact resistance than polyethylene. Temperature range is -40° to 300° F.

BTW ... although I have not had my car on the road yet; I have wiring for the fans running down the PS of my radiator using braided loom and have not had a problem during several runs up to temperature (which was as high as 210 deg one time going into the radiator).

McMaster Carr also sells a heat resistant version of the braided loom ...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=11jop1z

Carl

[edwardb]

Ah wiring... Can be one of the most challenging aspects of the build. That's what I'm doing myself right now. The DS footbox is quite full, as you said. Try it adding the Coyote harness! That Hot Rod leg is not needed for your build. You can remove it if you want. Many of us do. I've removed it a couple of times. The wires are "live" and extensions of wires elsewhere in the harness, so you need to be a little careful. I remove enough tape and convolute to get back into the main harness, clip the leads, put a piece of shrink wrap over the ends, and tape it back up. I typically use the adhesive lined heat shrink for that extra margin of safety. Some guys put a little 180 degree bend in the end of the wire before heating the shrink sleeve. That works too.

I don't think you'll have any heat issues with the harness around the radiator tank as long as you keep it a little distance away and not directly touching. RF seems to use a decent quality convolute for their harness. I often put heat shrink tubing on the ends instead of tape if I've modded something and their tubing handles the heat gun OK. Some of the cheaper varieties I've found wilt almost immediately with any temp from the heat gun. Looks like you may need to reorient your padded clamp a little though, just to get it off the tank. You'll also want to get all the slack out of that harness. You'll find there's just barely enough to get to the PS front and have enough wire to connect the lights on that corner. The other three have plenty.

CV axles. Cool! They are beefy. Feels good getting those in and finishing up the IRS. Have fun torquing the axle nut. I still haven't done mine. Planning to wait until it's got tires and sitting on the ground. Can't believe you don't have rear Wilwood brakes yet. I'm still waiting for my "sorry for the delay" T-shirt they promised.

[Jazzman]

For a woman that does not consider herself mechanically inclined, my wife does a fantastic job as my assistant!! I could not have gotten the CV axels in without her. I began by removing the plastic caps that had been keeping the insides of the differential clean. I was a bit worried that some of my nice clean gear oil might come pouring out, but none did. I wasn't sure how hard to hit the axel to get it to go in, but after a few taps, it pretty much slipped right in. No drama at all. Right one, same story. Not hardly worth a photo. No drama at all. I got the spindles on to the lightly greased ends of the axels. Not problem at all. Put all the bolts back in to the control and toe arms, got them all torqued down, and realized I had not put grease on the bolts. I haven't taken them back out and greased them yet, but it is on the to-do list.

Yesterday morning a big box from Wilwood finally arrived! Yeah. I didn't get to spend much time working yesterday, but unpacked it and looked it all over. It looks like it is going to be quite similar to the front ones. (No real surprise there.) Began today installing the brakes, and discovered something that has me flummoxed. The emergency brakes seem to need to be reversed. (or the boxes were mis-marked). Here is what I found.

This is the left side spindle with the "LEFT" emergency brake caliper. As you can see, the mechanism interfers with the spindle and upper control arm attachment.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51786&d=1458521729

Now this is still the left side spindle, with the "RIGHT" emergency brake caliper. This one fits fine, does not interfere, and matches the one extremely small black and white photo in the installation instructions.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51785&d=1458521728

I am inclined to reverse them. The cables and lines will not interfere. I just did not want to miss something obvious. Did my calipers just get shipped in the wrong boxes? Thoughts?

[Duke]

When I got to the radiator area, I did what seemed to be instructed, but I am concerned that this wiring is just too close to a heat source. Should I find a way to move the harness away from the radiator, or should I wrap the harness to protect from heat?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51545&d=1458024065


Temp rating on that plastic is up to 200 deg F. As long as it's not actually touching the radiator you should be okay. You may want to adjust your rivits accordingly to ensure at least 3/8" clearance.

[edwardb]

Yesterday morning a big box from Wilwood finally arrived! Yeah. I didn't get to spend much time working yesterday, but unpacked it and looked it all over. It looks like it is going to be quite similar to the front ones. (No real surprise there.) Began today installing the brakes, and discovered something that has me flummoxed. The emergency brakes seem to need to be reversed. (or the boxes were mis-marked). Here is what I found.

This is the left side spindle with the "LEFT" emergency brake caliper. As you can see, the mechanism interferes with the spindle and upper control arm attachment.

Now this is still the left side spindle, with the "RIGHT" emergency brake caliper. This one fits fine, does not interfere, and matches the one extremely small black and white photo in the installation instructions.

I am inclined to reverse them. The cables and lines will not interfere. I just did not want to miss something obvious. Did my calipers just get shipped in the wrong boxes? Thoughts?

There you go reading labels on boxes again! I don't recall the e-brake caliper boxes saying left and right, although obviously they must have. I seem to recall the mounting adapter instructions showed the proper orientation, but I don't have them in front of me. But bottom line you need to reverse them. I just want out and took these two pictures. This is the left (driver's) side. Note the e-brake actuation lever is to the back, toward the brake caliper. In the second pic, also shows the lever to the back, and with the e-brake cable routing around the back of the LCA shock mounting. Everything works this way without interference.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_0316_zps8hfk7zmt.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_0316_zps8hfk7zmt.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_0319_zpsuguirmhn.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Brakes/IMG_0319_zpsuguirmhn.jpg.html)

[Jazzman]

Thanks EdwardB. Good to know simple logic works occasionally. Finished up both side brake installs tonight. Next up, finish up the rear brake lines and ebrake cables.

[ThickCobra]

Agreed.

Jeff

Sorry for being late to the party on fuel line size and filter usage. Often when I'm browsing thru posts, I see something that I want to be certain about for my anniversary build. First the fuel line size. I have a Forte supplied Dart 351stroker (427) with a mild cam -450 hp. I have read a few postings on the fuel line size but want to be certain. I am running an engine mounted fuel pump with no return line. And, of course, no in-tank fuel pump. The kit comes with a 5/16" size fuel line which I have already run. Will I regret not switching to 3/8".

Second, I have read that installing the supplied ffr fuel filter, for my set up, between the fuel tank and mechanical pump is a no no as it could lead to fuel pump failer. Mike Forte tells me he installed an in line filter at the carburetor. Am I correct on this topic?

[Jazzman]

I am probably not the best expert on this topic, ThickCobra, but I will share what I have learned. I am going with the Coyote engine, and there seems to be consensus that the 5/16" lines are adequate for "mid range" builds. EdwardB (certainly an expert far beyond my own knowledge) is a proponent of the 3/8" lines and has used them on two builds. His current and previous build threads have a good discussion on the reasons he believes that the larger lines provide a larger margin of safety for higher horsepower installations. The reason for the concern about the in line filter has to do with unnecessary strain on the fuel pump leading to premature pump failure. I went with an in tank fuel pump, but a higher volume pump. I'm sorry I can't give you specific information about your setup.

[edwardb]

Sorry for being late to the party on fuel line size and filter usage. Often when I'm browsing thru posts, I see something that I want to be certain about for my anniversary build. First the fuel line size. I have a Forte supplied Dart 351stroker (427) with a mild cam -450 hp. I have read a few postings on the fuel line size but want to be certain. I am running an engine mounted fuel pump with no return line. And, of course, no in-tank fuel pump. The kit comes with a 5/16" size fuel line which I have already run. Will I regret not switching to 3/8".

Second, I have read that installing the supplied ffr fuel filter, for my set up, between the fuel tank and mechanical pump is a no no as it could lead to fuel pump failer. Mike Forte tells me he installed an in line filter at the carburetor. Am I correct on this topic?


I am probably not the best expert on this topic, ThickCobra, but I will share what I have learned. I am going with the Coyote engine, and there seems to be consensus that the 5/16" lines are adequate for "mid range" builds. EdwardB (certainly an expert far beyond my own knowledge) is a proponent of the 3/8" lines and has used them on two builds. His current and previous build threads have a good discussion on the reasons he believes that the larger lines provide a larger margin of safety for higher horsepower installations. The reason for the concern about the in line filter has to do with unnecessary strain on the fuel pump leading to premature pump failure. I went with an in tank fuel pump, but a higher volume pump. I'm sorry I can't give you specific information about your setup.

Let me give a couple responses to this. I'm far from an expert. Several builds and the resultant experience, yes. But I'm learning as I go too. My first build, a Mk3 with a pretty strong 306 SBF, used the stock 5/16 FF lines. (See, I can use the parts that come with the kit. Sometimes...) It's a mechanical pump/carb setup, and certainly has never had a fuel delivery issue. Runs great, now with another owner. I spent a long time looking at multiple forums and data when planning my last Mk4 with the DART 347. Found everything from the 5/16 stock lines are fine to guys that went with 1/2 inch lines. (Really!) When all was said and done, 5/16 probably would have been OK, but 3/8 was probably safer. But the tipping point was I wanted to do SS lines, just because, and there was little/no difference in 5/16 versus 3/8 at that point buying the material, bending the lines, doing the installation, etc. Very similar rationale with the current Coyote built. The data shows 5/16 feed and 1/4 return flow enough fuel. But several pump and regulator instructions suggested using 3/8 lines for both, and again because I decided to use SS for the lines (I can't seem to get enough punishment) it was a no-brainer just to do them in 3/8. So in both cases, was 3/8 really needed? Maybe not. But it was what I wanted to do and eliminated any possibility of the lines being undersized. Needless to say, having to change them after the build is done would not be fun.

So those were the reasons behind what I did. I would be inclined to suggest 3/8 lines for a 351 based 427, but I can't say with data you would ever outrun the 5/16 lines. If you do a search for HP suggestions for various fuel line sizes, you will find the recommendations all over the map. Over on the other forum you will find some of that too. You're describing a pretty mild 427, probably even a bit less than the pretty strong 347 in my Mk4. But I personally would still lean towards the 3/8 inch lines. But then you've seen my rationale, so you can decide if that means anything to you.

What I can say with confidence though is for mechanical fuel pump systems, do not put the filter between the tank and the pump. That is only for EFI systems. For a mechanical fuel pump setup, the filter should be between the fuel pump and the carb. In both cases there should be a rough filter or screen on the pickup (or pump) in the tank.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...What I can say with confidence though is for mechanical fuel pump systems, do not put the filter between the tank and the pump. That is only for EFI systems. For a mechanical fuel pump setup, the filter should be between the fuel pump and the carb. In both cases there should be a rough filter or screen on the pickup (or pump) in the tank.

Whether we're talking EFI or carb, electric pump or mechanical the filter needs to be on the pressurized side, note the suction side.

RE: fuel line size. Things are different for EFI vs carb. While it isn't an exact science you should be fine with 5/16". Think about it for a minute...the real bottleneck will be the carb's needle and seat. Do the math; the area of a 5/16" (.3125") line is .0767 square inches (pi X the radius squared). Holley's large "high flow" needle and seats are .150" which equates to .0176 square inches. Multiply that X2 for the primary and secondary circuits and the total is .0353 square inches; roughly half of the area of the fuel line. It's oversimplifying because pressure comes into play but even at that you need to think of an hourglass:

https://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/composite/76,61/hourglass-vector-237661.jpg

No matter how big the bowl is on the top you'll still only get so much sand through the neck.

Jeff

[ThickCobra]

Man o man, thanks for the very important feedback. Like most, I don't relish the thought of do-overs. You have both given me a lot to think about. I had felt pretty confident about the filter positioning, but as I was about to do the final attachment of the rear deck panels, I thought I would hit the subject once more. And, yes, I have a screen on the pick up. Many thanks.

As for the line size, I am trying to accomplish this build with using as much of the FFR supplied parts and components as possible. I'm certain that on my next build, if there will be one, I'll probably go mod crazy. You guys know that as a first time builder, you usually have your hands full understanding the basics and becoming more comfortable with researching and reaching out for help. But for now, (1) as it appears I should be safe with 5/16" steel FFR supplied lines feeding my "mild" build and (2) as the kit comes with the pickup fitting for a 5/16" line, and (3) the Forte supplied mechanical pump accommodates a 5/16" line, I can save a bunch of money. Fingers crossed. Besides, I'll squirrel the savings away for the next build.:cool:

[edwardb]

Whether we're talking EFI or carb, electric pump or mechanical the filter needs to be on the pressurized side, note the suction side. Jeff

That's the result of doing it like I described, just with fewer words. Thanks!

[Jazzman]

First, a big thumbs up for Mike Forte at Forte's Part Connection. On Thursday morning I ordered his hydraulic clutch kit, and lamented that I should have ordered it earlier in the week so I could have installed it this weekend. I was really surprised and impressed when the box arrived today, just two days later!. Thanks Mike! Great service.

Yesterday I got the rear brake lines laid in. I had to do it a bit differently than most due to the use of the rear battery box. I put the fixed attachment point on the angled down rod rather than the horizontal 2X3 square channel. It worked out nicely.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52071&d=1459050753

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52072&d=1459050754

I spent most of today working on the dash layout, making lists and ordering parts. I got the E-Brake cables laid in, but realized that because I routed the cables over the 4" main rail, the cables are too long. After consultation with an expert (thanks EdwardB) I realized I had to order the Lokar e-brake kit. To the keyboard to shop.

I then moved on to the Forte Master cylinder. The kit looks top notch. The M/C is from Willwood so that's a good start. It came with two different size reservoirs, neither of which I am going to use. I then went off on a long search for the correct fittings to go from the 11/16"-20 fitting on top of the M/C to 3/8" hose to connect to the FFR reservoir that I already have mounted. First problem: finding any adapters that are 11/16"-20. It seems that Willwood in their wisdom decided to use a fitting size that almost no one else uses. I finally had to settle on an adapter that will go to the -3 AN Brake line fitting. I will drill it out to allow more flow, and then attach a 3/8"nipple to it. This should allow the 3/8" reservoir hose to flow into the M/C. Ordered these parts. Next I moved on to the outgoing end of the M/C. First problem: it comes straight out the back of M/C, in exactly the wrong direction. I have to find fittings to make a 180 degree turn before I hook it into the hard line that will be connected to the receiving end of the clutch fluid: The clutch itself. had to find multiple adapters to get the fitting going in the right direction. Time will tell if all these adapters, connectors, and fittings will effectively transfer the fluid to the right place.

One problem I did discover: The shaft on the clutch M/C appears to be too long. After installing it and adjusting it to be roughly in the right place, the shaft bottoms out on the top of the clutch pedal. I think I will have to cut about 1/2" off the M/C shaft. Not a problem, just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing anything.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52073&d=1459050754

[edwardb]

Just to confirm, the only part I used from Lokar is their S-8078 Parking Brake Cable Clevis. It could be used as is, or modified a bit like I showed in my build thread. The Lokar part allows the shortened cables to be clamped in place plus allows adjustment without taking everything apart like the stock setup.

I too had to cut about 1/2 inch off the Wilwood clutch MC provided by Mike Forte. Doesn't look like you've gotten there yet, but the pushrod he provides for the slave cylinder is also oversized. It needs to be cut to size when you install that end of the system. I have an idea. Mike should get with Mark at Breeze and maybe collaborate on some Breeze-like instructions. Wouldn't that be something? :rolleyes:

[RR20AC]

Jazzman, I have the same battery box and rear end. Seems that they will rub. Did you raise your box some or did you remove some of the front of the box. Still have not mounted mine yet but have decided to do one of the two instead of relocating the battery somewhere else. Nice build. Way ahead of me. jim

[Jazzman]

Did you raise your box some or did you remove some of the front of the box.

Jim, I did not modify or raise my battery box at all. It fits perfectly between the upper differential mounting points. Since the differential is mounted in four places to very stout beams, It better not be moving at all. (If it is moving, I think you have even bigger problems!) I would suggest you wait to permanently mount the battery box until you have all your brake lines, fuel lines, and all wiring routed, and all the attachment holes located and drilled. It gets very busy under there with all these things going on. It would have been much easier to attach several pieces if that box had not been permanently attached. I wish I had thought of that before I attached my own box! Whatever you do, don't attach either of the trunk floors or the back wall of the cockpit until you are sure everything is run and permanently attached. You will need to run the differential vent tube before you install the battery box. If you plan to replace the differential gear oil, you should do this before the box goes in. It is not impossible to change the gear oil after the battery box is in, but it will be very difficult! I couldn't figure out a way to improve on that design, so I changed the fluids and then installed the box. If It needs service in the future, I will have to live with the consequences.

[Jazzman]

I'm doing some pre-wiring planning. I have decided to use a master cutoff switch and install it in the trunk just forward of the battery box. (pictures will have to follow later when the switch can be installed.) Because of all the computer circuits that will require an "always on" power circuit, I am going to be running two master hot lines from the master cutoff switch to under the dash: the main "switched" battery cable, and a smaller "always on" line. Under the dash they will each go to their own buss bar. Questions:

1. The main battery cable is 4 gauge. I don't think the "always on" circuit will need to be that big. How large a cable should I install to feed all the "always on" circuits?
2. How large a buss bar should I install to handle all the various circuits? Same size for both switched and un-switched circuits? Source?

[edwardb]

I'm doing some pre-wiring planning. I have decided to use a master cutoff switch and install it in the trunk just forward of the battery box. (pictures will have to follow later when the switch can be installed.) Because of all the computer circuits that will require an "always on" power circuit, I am going to be running two master hot lines from the master cutoff switch to under the dash: the main "switched" battery cable, and a smaller "always on" line. Under the dash they will each go to their own buss bar. Questions:

1. The main battery cable is 4 gauge. I don't think the "always on" circuit will need to be that big. How large a cable should I install to feed all the "always on" circuits?
2. How large a buss bar should I install to handle all the various circuits? Same size for both switched and un-switched circuits? Source?

For DD's, the ignition off draw for the PCM, clock, radio memory, etc. is in the 30 milliamperes range. Very low. I would expect yours would be similar. It's not going to take much of a wire for that. A common size like 16-18 AWG would be more than adequate. To be honest, I'm not sure a bus bar is required for that one. It should only have a couple things attached to it at most. I would just tie them together. If you're planning more than that for the always on circuit, it will drain your battery pretty quickly. For the power side, I've used this bus bar and will have one again in my new build: https://www.bluesea.com/products/2307/Common_150A_BusBar_-_Four_1_4in-20_Studs_with_Cover. Available at Delcity, Amazon, West Marine, etc. Anything from this company is decent quality since their stuff is designed for marine use. Hopefully you're not taking the 4 AWG battery cable directly to this though. That should go to the firewall.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Everyone has different needs and desires but FWIW I like to have the battery switch in the cockpit where it's easy to reach, specifically on the horseshoe at the front of the tunnel. Personally I wouldn't want to have to go to the trunk to use it.

Cheers,
Jeff

[Jazzman]

Thank you, Jeff, for your comment. You are certainly one for whom I have great respect. I thought about that location, as I have seen it there several times. I decided to put it the trunk for three reasons. My primary purpose for the switch is security. By locating it in the trunk it is out of view and locked up tight when I am away from the car. Secondly, I was concerned about water and grime getting into the connections. Finally I am working on building a small accessible storage space in that space. Thank you so much for keeping an eye on my build. Your input is always greatly appreciated!!

[Jazzman]

DDHopefully you're not taking the 4 AWG battery cable directly to this though. That should go to the firewall.

Ok I'll ask the obviously uneducated question: why? I had sort of planned to go in linear fashion, branching power off this buss bar as needed. What am I missing?

[edwardb]

Ok I'll ask the obviously uneducated question: why? I had sort of planned to go in linear fashion, branching power off this buss bar as needed. What am I missing?

The largest current draw (by far) for your battery cable is the starter. So it's very important to take the shortest most direct route to the starter first. For a stock installation this means the battery cable goes directly to a firewall mounted solenoid and then another shorter cable of the same gauge goes to the starter. Taking a detour in/out of the area behind the dash likely would add length to the cables, be challenging to fit into an already crowded area, plus it's generally not considered good practice to have those high current cables behind the dash. Best if they're left outside the dash/cockpit area along the floor or frame and then into the engine compartment. The RF harness is designed with three attachments to join the battery and starter cables at the solenoid: Battery, ignition, and alternator. Those wires will bring the necessary +12V to the fuse panel in the DS footbox, charge the battery, etc.

So that's the "stock" answer. Since the permanent magnet gear reduction (PMGR) starters that are pretty much the norm now have an integrated solenoid, technically a firewall solenoid is no longer needed. But it's still an easy gathering point for the wires, so some still use them for that reason. I haven't used one in any of my builds. I've used the master disconnect for that purpose. Since you're planning to put your master disconnect in the trunk, which I understand since you are doing a rear battery and a front console, and if don't want to mess with a firewall solenoid, you could use something like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rfw-jb47/overview/. Or this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/prf-80114.

Hopefully others will chime in maybe have some different or better suggestions.

[Jazzman]

This month will be a wild one, but I am finding a little time to work on the Roadster. I spent a good amount of time working on the design of the dash. I know I have probably spent an inordinate amount of time in that area, but I want it to be a signature part of the overall design. No photos yet. I still am not quite sure how I will finalize the design. I made a template of the dash and have been moving around paper cutouts that represent gauges, switches, etc. It is very hard to do something that one of the other geniuses have not already done. More on that after some question marks fall into place.

I am still working on laying in the wiring that I have. I decided to put my main cutoff in the trunk to enhance its security nature. Putting it right at the center of the upper level of the trunk works great to get it out of the way, and give you a solid mounting point. (its a steel panel under there!)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52430&d=1459922660

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52431&d=1459922661

I decided to eliminate the part of the wiring harness that was only for the 33 Hot Rod. I clipped the wires short, sealed the ends with shrink tape, then wrapped it all up inside electrical tape. I really don't think I will ever need any of these lines, but at least if I need them, I can still tap into them.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52433&d=1459922662

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52434&d=1459922663

I went to attach the wiring to the fuel pump and fuel level sender. The clip fit the fuel pump perfectly. Went right on with a light pressure and a solid click. One down one to go. The fuel level sending wire would not go on neatly. I checked the wire clips inside the quick disconnect plug. One has slid to the right and would not engage. I encouraged it back into place and the clip slipped right into place followed by a . . . very unsettling crack and the sound of the retention clip breaking off! Arrrrgh!! Going to have to call FFR to get counsel on what to do about this problem.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52432&d=1459922662

I came across the filler piece for the hole in the PS F-Panel. I decided to install right away so I wouldn't lose it again. Nothing special here, just progress.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52436&d=1459922665

Finally, I moved the clutch and brake pedal ends from the center mounting holes to the right mounting holes. (moves the plates to the left) I think this will provide just a bit more foot room for the gas pedal, and still leaves plenty of space for my left foot to the left of the clutch. The recent modification of the outside panel of the DS footbox seems to have been a good choice. Thanks FFR.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52437&d=1459922665

[Jazzman]

I finally got around to using the can of POR 15 I bought a couple of months ago. I really love this stuff!! I will not ever spend any money powder coating anything black. I used the POR 15 to protect the new structure I built around the dropped trunk box. Just like the instructions said, it took two coats. I was surprised how long it took to dry in the relatively higher temperatures and lower humidity that we have here in Arizona. It still took about six hours before I could re-coat the pieces. After 2 coats and 12 hours to cure, it is like black porcelain. Beautiful.

Some comments:
1. the smell is not as bad as I had expected. Perhaps that is because I have spent a bit too much time around solvents, finishes, removers, stains, and assorted other finishing chemicals. Yes, you will want to use it in a ventilated area, but it really isn't too bad.
2. they say not to get it on your skin because you really can't get it off. They aren't kidding!! (again, ask me how I know.)
3. Don't get it on your clothes unless you simply don't care how the clothes look. Reference point #2.

After getting the trunk area painted and cured, I finally put in the dropped trunk box for the last time. I know it is the last time, because I then welded the last frame rail around it. That box is not coming out of there!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52435&d=1459922664

Before I put the box in, I fitted the bottom and sides of the exterior of the box with sound/heat deadening sheets just like other panels. After the box was installed, I had to attach the last two panels of sound/heat deadening material. It took some careful measuring and weaving into the space, but it installed just as it should and looks like it will protect that panel from excessive heat.

[KDubU]

Great job on the build! Nice and clean. Really like your PC choice and regret not doing the same.

[Jazzman]

Thanks for the compliment Kyle. Other builders set a very high standard, but also help you get there. If mine comes out well, it will be because I am standing on the shoulders of giants!

[Jazzman]

Without an engine and Tranny right now, I am finishing up small details in preparation for putting the body back on for the first time. I want to fit the dash, measure a few things, etc. I have been working on installing (but not permanently) the floor panels in the trunk and at the rear of the cockpit. I don't want to get those installed permanently until I am sure I have all the wiring, etc, done back there. Even with that access, it is still busy under there! They still have to be insulated anyway. Just a dry run for now.

Someone mentioned a steel cage to go around the drive shaft. What is it, where do I find it, how critical is it for a non-race oriented vehicle, and is it already too late to install it with the floor panels permanently installed?

According to Edwardb, I really do not need a solenoid for a current type starter, but I will need a convenient gathering point for the power distribution in the engine compartment. What do you think about this Junction Block?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52611&d=1460331287

I am thinking this might solve two problems at once. This would get power directly from the battery, then route it to the starter, but would also get power through the firewall to keep from having any more unsightly wires in the engine bay to get power back inside for all the other needs. Any reason to have more than one of these? Basically, I am putting a DelCity order together, and want to order as much as possible at one time to keep shipping costs down. I am already ordering 3/8" wire loom and 3/8" cable clamps. Suggestions on what I will likely need? Come on, help me spend my money!!

[carlewms]

Jazzman,

I too have suffered from the addiction to DelCity and have a box full of stuff to show for it ...

I don't know if you are considering fusing any of the unswitched loads in the engine compartment but if so you might consider one of their fuse blocks like the one linked below:

http://www.delcity.net/store/search/p_10959.h_26383.t_1.n_y.jsp?item=73820

For any connections in the engine compartment I used their terminals (spade, ring, butt for example) I used the terminals with heat shrink fitted. The ones with a glue are nice but probably going overboard.

http://www.delcity.net/store/Terminals/

I also don't really like standard electrical tape ... The stuff deteriorates in the heat into a mess ... I use the self sealing tape

http://www.delcity.net/catalogdetails?item=235


Carl

[edwardb]

Someone mentioned a steel cage to go around the drive shaft. What is it, where do I find it, how critical is it for a non-race oriented vehicle, and is it already too late to install it with the floor panels permanently installed?

Called a drive shaft safety loop. Can be installed pretty much any time, including on a finished car. No worries about being too late should you decide you want one. They're a safety item meant to keep the driveshaft contained should one of the U-joints fail. They are typically required by safety rules for track events, etc. It's a little interesting when you see how close the spinning driveshaft is to your backside while sitting in the car. But for street use, strictly your call. Many (maybe most?) drive without one. Others choose to install one. There are at least three options. Mike Forte sells a custom one just for these cars that is sort of a bolt on. It bolts on after you install four pretty large inserts into the 4 inch frame tubes. There are various universal ones that are pretty inexpensive. Probably one of the nicer and easiest to install is one from Metco, but they're only occasionally available. This thread talks about it: http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/553114-driveshaft-loop.html

[wareaglescott]

Getting a lot of good info from this thread. Thanks! Sent you a PM

[Jazzman]

Thanks for the compliment WarEagleScott. I am glad it is helping you. Two PM's sent to you.

[Jazzman]

I have been rather silent and unproductive for the past few weeks because there has been a lot going on. My son married the girl of his dreams last Saturday, and yesterday they both graduated from college. I am so thrilled and proud of both of them. It has been great having extended family around a lot over the past few weeks. I have shown off the Roadster many times, received a lot of compliments, but have not really had much time to do anything. What time I did have was devoted to evaluating the feasibility of a really big decision: would I take the risk of attempting a tilt front on my very first car?

If you have gotten this far in my thread, you may remember I have wanted to do a Tilt Front from the beginning, but had decided against it. With the help of all my friends on this forum, I have had an amazingly smooth build process thus far. IN only four months (I am ignoring the past month that I really have done next to nothing) I have gotten farther than I expected to get in the first full year.

Over the past few weeks, I have exchanged innumerable emails with 2bKing. If you haven't already read his build thread (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11097-King-s-MK4-Coyote-Build), I highly recommend it. He drew inspiration from Dallas, and now I can learn from both of them. I have exchanged emails with MikeinAtlanta who very kindly agreed to assist me, but we have not yet had a chance to actually talk. (Sorry, Mike!!) Mike is an expert in fiberglass work, materials and methods. After consulting these experts, re-reading 2bKing's build thread for a third time, I have made a decision. My original purpose for this project was to learn as much as I could. With their help, I believe I can do a tilt front. I have no time limit on the project, and I am enjoying it immensely. I am going to do the Tilt Front!

2bKing has been exceptionally helpful in this process. He has agreed to counsel me through the process, and I have promised to thoroughly document my journey for him. Let it be fully known that this is NOT my design, but is developed by 2bKing. His skills are well above my own, and I so appreciate his assistance, wisdom, and insight.

I have already begun modifying slightly his design to simplify it a bit. I began the process today by beginning the layout process. After doing it, I came up with a shape that I really like, but it is a little different than what 2bKing did. His separation line over the top of the body parallels the curve of the windshield. Mine is a bit more complex, but retains the support "flange" where the hood will intersect with the body. In this installation several key decisions are different from his original design:

1. My modified design will retain the inner layer of the original FFR hood, and retain the structural ribbing around the outside edge of the underside of the FFR hood, hereinafter referred to as the “old hood”.
2. My modification will separate the “Hood” section (the entire front half of the car including the old FFR hood) from the Body section at the same point that the old hood currently meets the body just in front of the windshield. By using this already established demarcation point, you will retain the ledge (flange) that the hood will rest upon. This should provide stability and possibly reduce the fiberglass work.
3. My modification will include a working hood scoop. Much has been debated about the relative merits of a working hood scoop at higher speeds. (It will not be re-debated here!!) I like the working scoop. I put it in. You can choose not to include it just as easily.
4. I will include hood louvers purchased from Vraptor Speedworks (http://vraptorspeedworks.com/mk4-roadster-hood-louvers/). Merely a personal choice. I like them!

I began the cut line layout process.

1. Using one of the cardboard shipping boxes laid out flat over the top of the body, trace a pattern of the body along the front of the cockpit area. Continue the pattern over the sides of the body going a short way down the side of the body. Cut out this template. Find the exact center point of the template and draw a line. Make additional marks 13” to each side of this center line.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53176&d=1461470129

2. Using another box, lay one of the doors on the box, outside down. Line up the top of the door with the edge of the box. Trace the door onto the box, creating a template. Cut out this template, then cut off the last 12” of the template. It will just be in your way!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53157&d=1461470118

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53173&d=1461470127

3. Measure across the hood area of the body at several points to find the centerline of the car. Measure multiple times, as there are no perfect locations to measure from on this very complex shaped body. Once you have found the center line of the car, draw a line with a sharpie to mark the center line of the car. I chose to go all the way from the front of the car to the rollover at the dash.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53164&d=1461470122

4. Make a mark 13” from the centerline to each side of the body along the edge of the hood/body seam. Do one of these both to the right and to the left on the body side of the separation
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53165&d=1461470122

5. Using a long straight edge ruler, draw a line following the rear edge line of where the old hood meets the body nearest the cockpit. (It should go across the car, same direction as the windshield. This new line should extend all the way to the manufacturing seam lines in the fiberglass body. Do this on both sides of the old hood.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53166&d=1461470123

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53167&d=1461470123

[Jazzman]

6. Lay the template you made of the shape of the cockpit side of the body edge backwards so that the points on the template point toward the front of the car. Line up the center line of the template with the center line you drew on the body. The template should be behind the lip of the old hood seam at the center, and touch the seam at each end. Make sure the marks you made at 13” off of the center line all line up. Draw a line at the end of the template to create the line going over the edge of the body and just a little way down the side.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53168&d=1461470124

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53170&d=1461470125

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53169&d=1461470124

When you get done, you should have two lines that intersect something like this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53171&d=1461470126

7. Lay a long straight edge from the bottom of the door frame to a point 2.25” above the cutout for the exhaust pipes. This should look horizontal to your eye. Adjust the height of the front of this line as needed to make this line appear horizontal. When it looks right to you, draw a line to at least 20” behind the fender flare.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53161&d=1461470120

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53162&d=1461470120

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53163&d=1461470121

[Jazzman]

8. Measure 7” from the top of the straight section of the door opening toward the front of the car. Measure down from this point 10”. Measure 8.5” from the bottom of the straight section of the door frame. Make another mark.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53178&d=1461470130

9. Tape your door shaped template to the body, connecting the end point of the line at goes over the side of the body, the upper mark you made 7” in front of the upper door frame, the lower mark you made 8.5” in front of the door frame. The bottom of the door template should sit on the horizontal line you drew in step #8. Draw your line down the side of the car until it intersects the horizontal line along the bottom.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53175&d=1461470128

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53174&d=1461470128

10. When you get done, you should end up with a series of lines that look something like this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53179&d=1461470131

11. Draw a 45 degree line across the flange that the hood will sit on. This will complete your cut line at the top. Continue your horizontal line across the fender flare to complete your cut line at the bottom.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53184&d=1461472437

12. Repeat this entire process on the other side of the car.

13. Now go back and re-check every measurement. Take pictures of both sides and look at them side by side. They should look like a mirror image of each other. Triple check every last piece of this process. This is NOT an area where you want to make a mistake!!

[carlewms]

Jazzman,

Very impressive ... and great documentation of the process. After seeing Dallas' tilt front, the access this modification gives makes servicing the roadster very easy compared to the standard version.

Carl

[edwardb]

Wow. Big decision on your build and looks like you're off to a great start. Should be very cool. I've communicated with 2bking several times so far during my build, especially when I was using his modded footbox. Great guy and very willing to help. What makes this community such a good place. Good luck.

And congratulations on the wedding and new daughter-in-law. Those are beautiful and very special times.

[skullandbones]

Surprise!!!!!! This is the last thing I thought I would see on your build thread. But I am pleasantly surprised. I do like your design with the retaining of the ribs on the front end portion. It will add strength and save a lot of work as well as the keeping the inner liner on the hood. Are you planning to use the truss brackets or are you going more for the coupe design? I would like to do this one day but I will let you beta builders perfect the process for me first! I'm taking a copious amount of notes though.

Good luck,

WEK.

[David Hodgkins]

Kevin,

Congratulations on tackling this mod! I'm sure you will love the result!

I do have a concern though. That is using the top of the hood as the demarcation point. I'm concerned that the new hood will not be sturdy enough without using some of the body above the hood to help give the new hood proper rigidity. Have you discussed this with 2bKing?

I'm excited for you. This is definitely going to take your build to a whole new level!

:)

[WIS89]

Jazz-

So very cool! I admire and respect those of you that take on this project. I really like the tilt front, but there is no way I have the courage to do it myself.

King has done a great job on his, and I know you will receive expert advice! Likewise Mike will be a great resource for your fiberglass work! You have truly expert resources to help you in your journey!

I second Paul's comments regarding the expanding family and the recent commencements as well. Congratulations.

I will be following your progress like many others I am sure. Best of luck as you move forward, and steady hands for that first and subsequent cuts!

Regards,

Steve

[Lancaster Lad]

Mr Jazzman

After looking at Dallas and studying 2BKING I will be following you since I plan to drive for about 1 year in gelcoat,
then I plan to put the body under the knife. I will be looking to see what your plan is for the hinge. It does take
courage but as someone told me it is only fiberglass.

thank you for the pictures of your progress.

From #8851 still doing inventory


Cecil

[Jazzman]

Thank you all for your comments and support. This is certainly not an aspect of the build that I would even consider without the assistance of those more experienced than myself.


I do have a concern though. That is using the top of the hood as the demarcation point. I'm concerned that the new hood will not be sturdy enough without using some of the body above the hood to help give the new hood proper rigidity. Have you discussed this with 2bKing?

I have, indeed, discussed this with King, but I welcome other perspectives. Here's my/our thinking. (Please chime in 2bKing if you have other thoughts. Dallas, too, for that matter!!) Here is a photo of the inside of the "old Hood".
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53201&d=1461543953

This two layer section already has a structural rib running along the edge, a form that I would have to create with new fiberglass and other materials if I made the cut any closer to the windshield. King did cut closer to the windshield, and build additional structural ribs to support the hood and to support the body just behind the cut line. As I cut through the "old hood" for the air scoop and hood louvers, I will likely find places where the two layers of fiberglass are not strongly bonded together. I am hoping that I can find enough of these points that I can separate the layers slightly, fill the rib area with some sort of expanding foam which will get very solid and rigid after it drys. (I'm thinking about a similar product to that expanding foam stuff you can get at Home Depot to seal windows and doors and fill gaps in your home insulation. Probably not exactly that stuff, but something similar.) After all the voids are filled I plan to using a bonding material to glue the two layers back together, forming a very strong joint. Then I am going to add structural ribs similar to what King did on the sides and across the top just in front of the air scoop. Conceptually I want to use the strength of the ribs that are already there, improve them, then add additional ribs for added strength and stiffness.

The hood section will sit on this ledge already provided by FFR:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53203&d=1461545278

I will add a full structural rib on the underside of the body using this ledge as the front section. The idea is that both sides, body and hood, will have full structural ribs on either side of the cut line where they are separated. All of these ribs, all the glass work, will be done before the body is cut. The idea is to retain the original shape while the additional supports are being added.

OK. Have I convinced you? Got any better ideas? I'm sure open to them!!

[Jazzman]

When I put the body on for the first time yesterday, I was surprised that it just barely fit. The frame and rear sheet metal seemed to be too long. I found that the sheet metal at the rear, the two sides and the lower trunk floor panel were right up tight against the fiberglass. However, there wasn't even any bulb seal in there, and the body was far enough back on the frame that the door hinges would not open. They struck the inside of the body. I was contemplating this problem, measuring, and trying to figure how much to cut off, when I received a very timely email from 2bKing. He told me that he, too, had to cut off the rear sheet metal to make the body fit and the bulb seal have room to do it's job. This made me feel so much better. So today I measured again, and decided to cut off 1.125" from the rear side sheet metal, and 1.375" from the rear of the lower trunk floor panel. (The lower panel is already 0.25" too long.) Theoretically, this should allow the body to move forward by the 0.675" that it needs to be in the right place, and allow 0.5" for the bulb seal. I sure hope I have figured this right!! Messing this up will involve buying new side panels and re-powder coating them. Definitely not the plan!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53208&d=1461547571

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53209&d=1461547571

[Jazzman]

We had a great time at the FFR Huntington Beach Cruise In. It was great getting to meet quite a number of you during the two days of events. It was a great show. There were dozens of truly amazing builds. I was inspired by attention to detail in many of the cars, both in the Roadster line as well as GTM's, Coupes, Hot Rods, and 818's.

The show really reinforced how helpful the FFR community is. I was reminded of this yet again last Friday. I had the pleasure of speaking with MikeinAtlanta for over an hour. For those of you that do not know, he is a genuine expert in composites, and is a true artist as a fabricator. He was kind enough to share his photos of his FFR Roadster "Little Boy". The custom fabricated fiberglass work and aero effects are truly show stopping! Mike gave me a one hour master class in the chemistry and methods of fiberglass, vinylester resins, epoxies (don't use these), HSRF fillers, and many other topics related to the customization of the FFR body. I took copious notes, but still will likely have to call him back because he is so very knowledgeable. Thank you, Mike, for giving of your time to help me. You are truly one of the great ones!

[Jazzman]

I was able to spend most of this past weekend working in the shop. It was great to get back to the Cobra project. I spent part of Saturday disassembling and rebuilding the body buck. I wanted to move it inside the garage so that I can work on the body and yet roll it outside when necessary. I narrowed the body buck a bit, and adjusted the height to make it a more appropriate working height as well as providing full support along the bottom of the body. My father was over at the house working on his own project. It took both his and my wife's assistance to get the body buck rebuilt. (It is quite unfortunate that now that my boys are both able to help with this type of project, one is out state and the other is married and across town. This empty nest thing has it's downsides!!) Anyway, not much to show, but the buck is rebuilt and the body ready for the next steps in fabrication.

I am still borrowing my friend's welding rig, but I figured I had better get it back to him soon. I spent the rest of the weekend fabricating the support trusses according to 2BKing's plans. I first cut the 3/4" square tubing to length, then laid out the notches that had to be cut in the upper and lower main support tubes. To get the angles set up correctly, 2BKing has instructed me to cut notches not quite all the way through the square tube.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53790&d=1462863601

After cutting all the notches with the sabre saw and cleaning up the notches with the die grinder, I bent the tube and confirmed that the angle was exactly as indicated on 2BKing's plans.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53789&d=1462863600

I then built a template board so that both trusses would have exactly the same top shape. I took a 2'x4' piece of junk particle board and screwed blocks on each side of the square channel to hold it in place. A bit of tack welding kept the bent tubing in shape.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53791&d=1462863601

I then fabricated the vertical (for lack of a better word) interior pieces. This took a bit of time to custom grind each piece to fit perfectly. I then tacked them into place.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53793&d=1462863603

The horizontal interior pieces were last, and required the most custom grinding to fit into the tight corners.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53792&d=1462863602

Finally I finished welding all the joints. While the welding is a long way from perfect, it seems to be strong enough. I am still working on grinding down some of the "less nuanced" welds, and repairing or replacing them. Practice makes improvement. I will work on grinding and polishing the welded joints, and ultimately send the trusses off to be powder coated.

[KDubU]

When I put the body on for the first time yesterday, I was surprised that it just barely fit. The frame and rear sheet metal seemed to be too long. I found that the sheet metal at the rear, the two sides and the lower trunk floor panel were right up tight against the fiberglass. However, there wasn't even any bulb seal in there, and the body was far enough back on the frame that the door hinges would not open. They struck the inside of the body. I was contemplating this problem, measuring, and trying to figure how much to cut off, when I received a very timely email from 2bKing. He told me that he, too, had to cut off the rear sheet metal to make the body fit and the bulb seal have room to do it's job. This made me feel so much better. So today I measured again, and decided to cut off 1.125" from the rear side sheet metal, and 1.375" from the rear of the lower trunk floor panel. (The lower panel is already 0.25" too long.) Theoretically, this should allow the body to move forward by the 0.675" that it needs to be in the right place, and allow 0.5" for the bulb seal. I sure hope I have figured this right!! Messing this up will involve buying new side panels and re-powder coating them. Definitely not the plan!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53208&d=1461547571

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53209&d=1461547571


Wow, that is a fair amount to trim. I am hoping to fit the body this weekend and likely will have some trimming myself but didn't think it would be that much. Are those the only two areas for you?

Love the tilt mod you're doing. Daring and way too much for me to consider but will follow your posts as it is an awesome mod.

[Jazzman]

Wow, that is a fair amount to trim. I am hoping to fit the body this weekend and likely will have some trimming myself but didn't think it would be that much. Are those the only two areas for you? Love the tilt mod you're doing. Daring and way too much for me to consider but will follow your posts as it is an awesome mod.

I have not yet done the trimming, but yes, thus far, that is all I have seen that will be necessary. Because it is such a large amount to trim out, I will probably reinstall the body yet again just to be double sure before I actually do the cuts. I may also do it in two stages, about half an inch each. I am not sure yet.

Thank you for the compliment on the tilt mod. Like many of the more aggressive modifications, this one seems to split the FFR builder community rather strongly. The more traditional builders seem to hate it. I have received a number of rather negative comments about it. "I just don't like the look." "It will hurt the resale value." "It is more work and expense than it is worth." While all those comments may indeed be true, I have also gotten a number of positive comments like yours, and they are greatly appreciated. One of the great things about this hobby is that unless you are specifically building the car to sell immediately to turn a quick profit, you choose the modifications that you want to personalize your car to your own taste. I think this makes for a very vibrant and creative environment. I may not want to do every choice and mod I see, but I certainly can appreciate the creativity and skill that each one takes to accomplish. Since these are all replicas anyway, I think the creativity Is great. Some want an "exact replica", recreating the original as closely as possible. (Of course, you end up with a replica.) Others want an "inspired by" or "homage" replica that attempts to take the best of the original and try to improve upon it. (Of course, you still end up with a replica!) I say build for your own joy, and let the chips fall where they may! You chose 15" wheels, a traditional pushrod engine, and a blue and white color scheme. GREAT! I chose 18" wheels, a non-traditional coyote engine, and will not be doing the traditional blue and white. Also good. To each his own!

I hope your build it progressing smoothly and you are having as good a time as I am!!

[6t8dart]

I would really double check the trimming. All those panels were installed when I got my car with the body on, something seems like it might have shifted. It might be a good idea to get someone else to take a "2nd opinion" look.

[GoDadGo]

Jazzman,

You are a much braver soul than this guy.
Measure twice and cut once or maybe measure three times just for fun.
Good Luck & Can't Wait To See The Final Product!

Steve / aka GoDadGo

[WIS89]

Jazz-

I am pleased that you are dismissing the negative comments. I too appreciate hearing differing viewpoints, as I often change my mind when others chime in and remind me I am being stupid -- a fairly common situation for me. However, these cars are about as personal as they get, and I think the tilt front is a very personal decision, and there is no wrong answer here. I really like them, and admire the craftsmanship that goes into this. However, I don't have the courage to try it myself!

I look forward to watching your continued progress; I remain impressed! I think it will look great, and I truly admire you for taking it on.

Good luck as you continue!

Regards,

Steve

[6t8dart]

I saw King's roadster in person and I have to admit it was definitely an engineering marvel.

[2bking]

I saw King's roadster in person and I have to admit it was definitely an engineering marvel.
Thanks, Jazzman is trying a simpler approach, as far as fiberglass work goes, by using the hood lip on the body and the latches from the coupe. He has got a good handle on what's needed and a strong constitution to do it so I think it will turn out fine. I have given him a drawing package with a complete list of purchased items for all the fab parts and he is off and running. I have offered to make some of the more difficult parts for him but for now, he wants it to be his creation. The forum is giving him support in many other aspects so I think he will succeed.

[dallas_]

Jazzman,
Just checked in on your thread and I'm glad to see you decided to proceed with the tilt front. :)

Like you said, it's a personal preference and not everyone will like it, but it's your car so do with it what YOU want. The first original Shelby 427 car (nicknamed 'The Turd') had a tilt front so the purists can't complain about it too much. It does make access SO much easier. I have never regretted doing it.

It's nice to see each successive version of this getting better and better. King certainly improved over my simple attempt. Keep us posted on your progress.



John

[Jazzman]

Not much to "show" for today, but I made progress. I am trying to fit the body correctly. I knew that I needed to cut some off the trunk side panels and the lower trunk floor panel to allow the body to slip forward and to have enough room for bulb seal. The last time I had the body on, the measurements seem to indicate that I needed to remove between 1.25-1.5" from the tail end to make the body fit correctly. I waited several weeks to do it because something in the back of my mind said this is just too much to remove. Since those parts are all powder coated and riveted in, I really don't want to make a mistake that requires that they be replaced. I decided that I would cut the pieces in smaller nibbles. I began by cutting back about 3/8" which turned out to still not be enough. Then I went to a 3/4" depth. This was much better, but was still a bit too tight for the bulb seal. I then cut back to 7/8" and this turned out to be just right. I installed all the bulb seal all around, but by this time all my "hands" had gone home. They tell me they are coming back tomorrow. I will ask them to help me put on the body yet one more time to see if all the bulb sealed locations are acceptable.

[edwardb]

Not much to "show" for today, but I made progress. I am trying to fit the body correctly. I knew that I needed to cut some off the trunk side panels and the lower trunk floor panel to allow the body to slip forward and to have enough room for bulb seal. The last time I had the body on, the measurements seem to indicate that I needed to remove between 1.25-1.5" from the tail end to make the body fit correctly. I waited several weeks to do it because something in the back of my mind said this is just too much to remove. Since those parts are all powder coated and riveted in, I really don't want to make a mistake that requires that they be replaced. I decided that I would cut the pieces in smaller nibbles. I began by cutting back about 3/8" which turned out to still not be enough. Then I went to a 3/4" depth. This was much better, but was still a bit too tight for the bulb seal. I then cut back to 7/8" and this turned out to be just right. I installed all the bulb seal all around, but by this time all my "hands" had gone home. They tell me they are coming back tomorrow. I will ask them to help me put on the body yet one more time to see if all the bulb sealed locations are acceptable.

Boy I hope that's right. I've just not seen any builds, my own included, that required that much trimming. 1/8 to 1/4 inch here and there (maybe) but not that much.

[Jeff Kleiner]

On some cars I've cut almost an inch from the rear floor lip and a half or so from the vertical edge of the trunk side panels. The floors are hand bent at FFR and the side panels are builder positioned and installed so there will be some amount of case by case variation. The bulb seal is very forgiving.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Boy I hope that's right. I've just not seen any builds, my own included, that required that much trimming. 1/8 to 1/4 inch here and there (maybe) but not that much.


On some cars I've cut almost an inch from the rear floor lip and a half or so from the vertical edge of the trunk side panels. The floors are hand bent at FFR and the side panels are builder positioned and installed so there will be some amount of case by case variation. The bulb seal is very forgiving.

Jeff

Hey Jeff. I agree about the rear floor lip, especially to get the trunk lid fit properly. I personally haven't cut an inch, but agree maybe more than the 1/8 to 1/4 inch I mentioned. I was mainly referring to the sides, and just haven't seen the amount of trimming shown in post #194 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18548-Jazzman%92s-8745-quot-Flip-Top-quot-Build&p=235319&viewfull=1#post235319) referenced earlier. Doesn't sound like quite that much was removed, but still seems like a lot to me. Like I said, just hope it's right. :)

[Jazzman]

Well Jeff and EdwardB, I can confirm that the trimming turned out fine . . . but just barely. After measuring twice, then checking again just because I am paranoid, I cut off what seemed to be right. I am just glad that the bulb seal is back there. If I had cut off even 1/8" more, the bulb seal would not be correctly compressed. As it is it is fine, and it might even get a bit tighter because the body may have to slide just a bit farther forward to fit the doors correctly. Note to self next time: trim half what you think you will need. Do it again if it is still too tight.

[Jazzman]

I suppose I have been putting off the big job of actually beginning the process of cutting the body. Like 2BKing before me, this is not a decision or project to jump into lightly. I have really thought about it, studied it, evaluated it, and I still like it. I spent a couple of hours this morning setting up multiple purchases from Amazon, U.S. Composites, and McMaster-Carr. For those of you that might be considering this mod, you might be asking the cost. If you factor in a nice round $1000 for this mod, you will be very close. The parts alone come to $600-$650, and there are some additional supplies and tools that you would not normally buy which add another $300 or so. So, A ballpark figure of $1000 is probably realistic. Thanks again to 2BKing for putting together such an excellent shopping list!!

Today I continued the process of preparing the body to be cut. I re-measured every point on my layout now that it is sitting on the frame. I found a few places that I wanted to adjust the location slightly, but nothing major. I want to make sure that both sides are mirror images of each other. After consulting with 2BKing, I finally understood why his body is cut vertically above the exhaust pipe cutout rather than continuing the horizontal cut above the exhaust cutout all the way through the front fender flare. You will not be surprised to learn that King is right again. The "elephant" ears mount just inside the area behind the fender flare. If you cut the body horizontally, the front section of the body forward of the exhaust pipe has nothing to support it. I adjusted my cutout lines to fit the new design.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54188&d=1463902452

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54187&d=1463902452

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54189&d=1463902453

So that I can "see" the pattern that the cut will take from the inside of the body, I decided to drill 3/32" holes every 2" along the cut line. I laid out the hole pattern using the same rivet spacing tool that came with the FFR kit, then drilled each hole.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54190&d=1463902454

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54191&d=1463902455

I finished off the evening manufacturing some of the various parts that I will need to construct the tilting hinge system that will support the trusses and ultimately the body. I cut out 14 pieces of .040 aluminum 6" x2". When King did his tilt front mod, he spent quite some time sanding custom wooden pieces to match the curvature of the body and hold the rear body and the front/hood together until all the fiberglass work had been completed. King made the suggestion to do the pieces of aluminum. They will bend with the natural contour of body without having to spend hours custom making wooden pieces that fit. Excellent idea King! I will show you these pieces of aluminum in action hopefully tomorrow. I am embarrassed to say that in all the thousands of nails, screws, bolts, washers, and every other kind of fastener imaginable, I realized I do not have any 8-32 nuts left. I will have to pick some of them up tomorrow.

[Jazzman]

I have been fabricating the various parts to construct 2BKing's Tilt front system. Keep in mind that I do not have a metal cutting band saw. I have been fabricating the parts using a Jig saw, a drill press, a couple of grinder wheels, and the die grinder for finish and smoothing. I will admit that these photos and commentary are not going to mean much until I get to the end of the construction phase, but bear with me.

I started with the main cross member and ends which supports the entire system and are attached to the main FFR frame below and beside the radiator.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54330&d=1464246686

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54333&d=1464246688

I installed 1/4"x20 rivet nuts. Note to self: when buying a rivet nut installation tool, but one with longer arms. The one I bought seems to be of good quality, and might be fine for smaller rivnut sizes. But for this size, it is extremely hard to use. I am unable to squeeze the rivet nut by hand. I have to put the tool on the bench and push down on the upper handle. Not optimal perhaps, but it worked. the rivet nuts seated nicely and work great!!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54334&d=1464246689

With some 1/8" aluminum plate, I made the two corner pieces.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54335&d=1464246689

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54336&d=1464246690


EDIT: I removed these photos because I later learned that I had attached the parts incorrectly.

[Jazzman]

One of 2BKing's great ideas for this tilt system is to use some of the parts already provided by FFR. They did require a bit of modification, however. (Note to self, don't powdercoat pieces that you will later have to cut and grind!)

First I trimmed what I will call the "bottom piece of the FFR hinge system. They had to be narrowed, then have a couple of new holes drilled. The ends had to be cut at an angle. Then I turned my attention to the "top" pieces of the FFR hinge system. I had to enlarge the outermost holes, then add additional holes nearby to create an adjustable channel. It is this adjustment channel that will provide one of the key adjustment points to line up the full hood with the body.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54332&d=1464246687

Again, all of this was done with a jig saw, a grinder wheel or two, and a round file. The filing took the greatest amount of time!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54331&d=1464246687

Finally, I turned my attention to the aluminum pieces that will hold the body and hood in perfect alignment after they are cut apart while all the fiberglass work is done on the underside. I began by cutting 14 pieces of 2"x6" aluminum out of the left over pieces of sheet aluminum that was not used on the car. (I used the material that had come out of the hole that was cut when I installed the dropped trunk box and the extra DS footbox panel that was not used because I am not doing a "donor" car.) I have now discovered that I will need about four more, but I will use the same procedure. I am making them all the same so that they will be interchangeable regardless of location on the body. After cutting them all out, I stacked them all up and clamped them together like a deck of cards. I then used the drill press to drill one hole through all of them simultaneously. I then put an 8x32 bolt through the hole to hold them all together. Then I drilled the second hole on the other end, creating an entire series of pieces that will have the same distance between the holes.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54328&d=1464246685

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54329&d=1464246685

Then I started placing the aluminum "bandages" on the body at strategic locations. I can only attach a few of them until I take the body off, but this will give you an idea of where I am going.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54340&d=1464246848

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54341&d=1464246848

[Jazzman]

This past weekend was a very productive one. Last week I spent most of my available shop time making the various parts that will support the actual hinge system. Four of the parts are made from thick walled half inch steel tubing. After cutting to the appropriate lengths, each tube had to be crushed at both ends to provide a flat attachement point. My 50 year old bench vise handled the job perfectly, although it did take an extension pipe to apply enough pressure to get them really flat.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54784&d=1465359453

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54781&d=1465359451

After flattening both ends, the shorter end had to bent to the correct angle to fit.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54785&d=1465359454

A bit of work on the grinder wheels, the wire wheels, and the polishing wheels, and you will end up with this:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54786&d=1465359455

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54783&d=1465359453

[Jazzman]

Now I can start constructing the actual hinge system framework. Here are the parts in the order that they were attached:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54756&d=1465358719

I found that I had to shorten the main cross tube by about 1/8" to make the system line up on the main FFR Frame. After shortening the main cross tube, I began attaching the other parts.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54757&d=1465358720

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54758&d=1465358721

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54760&d=1465358722

The diagonal tube is temporarily attached. It has to be removed to install the system on the main car frame.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54761&d=1465358723

Then the slightly modified FFR hinges are attached:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54764&d=1465358724

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54766&d=1465358726

[Jazzman]

Here is a couple of shots to give you an idea of where this is going. First, the sytem with one of the two main trusses attached:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54771&d=1465358729

and here is the system clamped in place to check for fitment:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54787&d=1465359455

[Jazzman]

The next step was to fabricate all the attachments pieces that will connect the main trusses to underside of the body. This part of the project took three nights to do because my hand wore out cutting .040 sheet aluminum by hand! Here is the roughed out pieces: (actually there are two more, but I forgot to put them in the photo!!)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54772&d=1465358730

then every piece had to be sanded and shaped to size:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54773&d=1465358730

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54774&d=1465358731

I then drilled the holes for the bolts, drew in the points where they must be bent, and bent them using the bench vise

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54775&d=1465358732

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54776&d=1465358732

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54780&d=1465358735

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54777&d=1465358733

Repeat this basic process 16 times to create all the attachment pieces to be attached to the trusses. Yes, this does take some time to get them all bent to the right angles. They are all made in pairs, but some of them are duplicates of each other and some are mirror images of each other.

[Jazzman]

The tilt system is beginning to take shape and become a recognizable system. Tonight I finished creating all the truss mounting pieces. I attached them to the trusses, and then I added the attachment points that will ultimately be glued to the underside of the hood section.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54813&d=1465458358

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54814&d=1465458358

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54815&d=1465458359

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54816&d=1465458360

In order to mount the truss in the right place, and to glue on the attachment points, I had to place the hinge system where I think it will be attached. I have not yet drilled the holes to actually mount the hinge system because I want to be sure it is in the right place before I do. I used C clamps to hold the hinge system in place for mockup.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54819&d=1465458362

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54818&d=1465458362

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54817&d=1465458361

[WIS89]

Jazz-

Great work! That's an awful lot of customization, but I know it will be worth it. I really love the tilt front!

By the way, that work bench is awesome! There is nothing like those older quality benches.

Keep up the great work, and documentation. I have enjoyed following along!

Regards,

Steve

[Jazzman]

Thanks for the compliments, Steve. Funny story about that bench. I built it about 14 years ago. It weighs a ton because the top is 4" thick, solid oak with Maple ends. I worked in a fancy office building that had a lot of solid oak wood work throughout the foyer and several of the big offices. In an attempt to "update" the building, they decided to tear out all the oak hardwood trim. I came out of the office to discover a large pile of 1x4x10 pieces of oak with nails sticking out of them. I picked up as many of them as I could stuff in my truck, took them home, removed all the nails (what a job!!) and then glue lam'ed them together to build this bench. It is a great bench. The only mistake that I have found that I made is that the front piece that forms the top front edge is made out of the same oak. The grain is too unstable. As it drys out, it is losing strength and splintering off. I should have made that front rail out of hard maple. Oh well. Someday I will probably try to router off the corner and glue a piece of maple on there. For now it works great, and it was almost free!! (technically the two bench vices cost more than all the rest of the wood combined!!)

[Jazzman]

This has been an interesting day. I decided to order the Coyote engine and control pack. I have been researching several sources, and found one that advertised both pieces for about $6800. Since normally the engine is about $6600, and the control pack about $1500, this bundled price was a big savings. I called to place my order, and was crushed to discover that the bundled price was a Ford promotion price that had expired June 1! Missed it by THIS much!! Back to the drawing board.

I have been searching for tires that will work. Between sizes that don't match, models out of stock or out of production, and the 18" wheel size, the selection is quite limited. It came down to BF Goodrich Rival S and Nitto 555s, then I found the Nitto INVO Luxury High Performance Tires (http://www.nittotire.com/passenger-tires/invo-luxury-sport-ultra-high-performance-tire/). These things look really cool, and seem to check all the boxes I wanted. I had to drop back to a 295 rear tire, they don't make a 315 except in full-on racing tires. Still should be a great looking tire on this car. I ordered up a set of those. Pictures will follow when I get them. Have any of you tried this tire? The full set, mounted, balanced, etc, cost right at $1250 from my local Discount Tire store.

I discovered that I had to take out the hinge system for the tilt front again. I discovered I had installed the hinge arms backwards from the way that 2BKing had designed the system. (I did it the way FFR designed them, which turned out to be wrong in this application.) I have assembled and disassembled this system so many times now (incorrectly!!), I think I can do it in my sleep! My own fault, I am still learning to read 2BKing's very technical drawings. All the information is there, I just need to catch it. I had to flip the shorter arms around so they point away from the FFR frame. I also had to exchange the longer arms left for right, then flip them around so that they, too were pointing away from the FFR Frame. By doing this, it moves both trusses more outboard, providing more clearance for the frame.

Here is the WRONG way to install the hinge arms for this application:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54878&d=1465631370

I will add a picture of the correct way to do it tomorrow. At the moment, it is almost 1am, and time for me to go to bed!

Morning Edit:

Ok, Good night sleep done. Here is the corrected attachment:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54881&d=1465656638

One other thing I decided to do while I had the hinges apart: I added one washer next to the head of the bolt. This took up just a bit of thread space and tightened up the "play" hinges. They still have all the motion they need, but they no longer have the wobble that was left because the nuts would not get quite tight enough to hold the hinges appropriately. They feel much more solid now. On to the next task: Actually attaching the truss mounting studs to the underside of the body!

[dallas_]

Looking good! Enjoying the detailed progress and photos.

[Jazzman]

I just realized that I need to get the body exactly where it will be attached permanently before I glue on the mounting studs to hold the trusses. I know the body currently sits 3/8" to 1/2" back from it's correct location. I am going to get bolts for the rear and cinch it up a bit there and see if that helps. I am debating drilling the holes for the roll bars to use those as marker locations. However, I want to use the 1.75" breeze bars, which I do not have. If I drill 1.5" holes to accommodate the stock FFR bar, then the hole will be too small when the larger bars arrive. If I drill 1.75" holes now, the bar will allow the body to sit back a bit. However, I can't really move forward until I get the body aligned, leveled, and screwed into it's final location. I think I will drill the 1.75" holes. I'm glad I am not on any particular deadline on this thing!!

[Jazzman]

Shouldn't the holes for the roll bars all be in a straight line? Here are two photos of the DS markings. First, the inboard hole, then the outboard hole. They look to be in the right place.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54887&d=1465663726

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54888&d=1465663727

Now the PS markings. They look like they are too far forward: first inboard then outboard.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54889&d=1465663727

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54890&d=1465663728

Am I loosing my mind or did FFR's hand slip when they made these markings?

[2bking]

There are several ways to verify if the markings are in the correct location. One easy way is to drill the center hole with a small drill bit and use a plumb bob to see if lines up on the roll bar mounts.

[Jazzman]

Today is my parents 56th wedding Anniversary. (Not bad, huh?!! There's a goal worth shooting for!) We had a big family get together this afternoon. Between that event and the surrounding honey-do's, time was limited in the shop today. I am trying to get the body/tilt system interface far enough along that I can remove the body from the frame and continue work on both pieces independently. My son and his fiancé will be here for two more days, and I need the extra hands to get the body off the car easily.

Hmmm. I can't seem to attach photos. I think I need to log out and come back in. Back soon!!

Edit:
Hmmm. Computer problems continue. I think I will re-address this problem in the morning.

[Jazzman]

Ok, computer problems fixed. I left off trying to get the trusses attached to the body solidly enough to remove the body from the frame so that I can work on the underside. I have made progress, but it looks unlikely that I will be far enough to get the body off before my son and his fiancé go home. Over the weekend, I drilled holes in the body and temporarily attached the attachment studs that hold the trusses to the body. As soon as I did, the whole system stiffened up and really seems to fit well.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54998&d=1465883254

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54999&d=1465883255

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54996&d=1465883253

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55002&d=1465883257


I finished out the weekend by starting to sand and fit the "old hood" into it's traditional location. after a bit of sanding and measuring, it fits rather well. I then drilled four bolt holes to hold it in position while I put a temporary layer of fiberglass and resin over the outside seam. This is only done to hold the "old hood" in place while I work on glassing in the underside. I had hoped to get this temporary attachment done this weekend, but it was not to be.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55003&d=1465883258

I then decided that it would be prudent to fit the windshield to the body/frame to see if I like the way the cut line will look after the body is separated from the hood. I began by re-measuring the marked placed for the windshield. As with the roll bar holes, these two holes are not equally spaced forward of the rolled edge above the dash board. Rather than cut and make a mistake, I decided to wait and haul the windshield down and measure against the actual part. I ran out of time before I was able to get the windshield down from upstairs where it is stored.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55001&d=1465883256

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55000&d=1465883256

[Jazzman]

A few of you may actually have all the knowledge and skills necessary to do one of these projects and any mods you desire. But if you are guy like me, we know we do not build alone. We depend heavily our friends on this forum, as well as local friends who have special skills. This evening, I spent four hours with a very close friend of mine who demonstrated his skills using computer aided design and a mill. By profession, my friend Todd is a mold maker. This means that he creates molds that form plastic pieces used in many industries, but primarily in the medical industry. He showed me parts that he has created molds for that are smaller than a grain of rice, have holes in them smaller than a human hair, and are inserted next to your heart! (I have no idea why you would want that, and I know I really don't want to find out, it still is very impressive!! He is a true master machinist. The two little pieces I need are far below his skill level, but he was kind enough to mill them for me, and let me watch him do it. It was fascinating! I took several short videos (which I have not yet figured out how to upload!) but here are several photos of the process.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54991&d=1465882108

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54992&d=1465882109

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54993&d=1465882110

The completed parts are amazing! The only thing we did wrong is that the pivot hole is a few thousandths of an inch too small. He is going to take them back and correct the hole size. Thanks, Todd, for all your help!

[Jazzman]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55137&d=1466374465

Ok all you builders from more northern climes, today is your day to gloat! That photo shows that the temperature here in sunny Scottsdale is 120 degrees! It's not the all time record, but it only misses it by 2 degrees. (yes, I endured that day also!!) Is it any wonder that I am hiding in my garage? Of course it helps that I added an air conditioner last summer, and I keep it a comfortable 79 in there!

When I was at the Huntington Beach show, I saw lots of cars using the CNC aluminum brake/clutch reservoirs. They look so nice. I had decided to save a buck or two and just use two of the FFR Reservoirs since I already had one of them. Then I talked to the folks at Wilwood brakes. They strongly encouraged me to use three reservoirs, one for each of the master cylinders. (2 brake, one clutch). After they showed me a really slick way to connect them and use much smaller brake line to connect them to each master cylinder, I knew I just wanted to get the CNC reservoirs. Oh well it's only money. So I ordered up this beauty:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55135&d=1466374463

Wilwood suggested I use stainless brake lines to connect the reservoirs to the master cylinders. They were even kind enough to provide the fittings to do it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55136&d=1466374464

The braided stainless lines are on order, should be here mid week. I made a new aluminum piece to attach it to the frame. Nothing too exciting. Flat plate with six holes. I have it in the powder coating box. I was a bit disappointed that only the top was nicely polished. I can fix that. I have some new polishing pieces on order from McMaster for my di-grinder.

I am trying to get the brake system all buttoned up, the system bled, and the entire suspension system triple checked. I am going to re-torque every nut to be sure it is all ready to go. I already ordered Wilwood brake fluid. It was delivered Friday. All this work around the suspension and brakes is because tomorrow I will pick up the new shoes!! Late last week Discount Tire called to tell me that my Nitto INVO tires had arrived. I took the wheels over on Thursday, but they could not get the tires installed till Friday. Friday morning they called to tell me they had experienced the challenge with the valve stems that others have talked about. They quickly figured out what they needed, but they wouldn't have them til Monday. No problem. Saw the tires . . . they are amazing looking!! My only minor complaint is that they don't make a 315. 295 is as wide as they go. They look good anyway. I just can't wait to see them installed. When I do, you will too!

[Jazzman]

This was a very exciting day!! The goal today was to bleed the brakes and install the wheels/tires. I began with a couple of obsessive things, but I am glad that I did. I decided to replace the screws on the top of the CNC reservoirs with stainless steel button heads. Yes, I know it is entirely anal-retentive. Yes, I know the original slotted screws would work just fine. But they look so much nicer!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55430&d=1466916009

I opened up the reservoirs to replace the screws, and to my surprise, I discovered this little piece of shmutz in the bottom of one of the reservoirs.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55429&d=1466916008

I am glad that I checked that they were clean before I started filling them up with fluid. This might have clogged up my brake lines but good! After cleaning thoroughly, I put everything back together. I marked each reservoir with a sharpie just to keep me from messing up. I will ultimately have each cap engraved with it's purpose.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55431&d=1466916010

For those of you with loads of automotive experience, please do not laugh at the following insight: I am glad I decided to use two separate brake reservoirs for the added safety factor. FFR's instructed design is adequate, simple, and cost effective. However, if any one of the brakes begin to leak, all four will lose pressure simultaneously. However, by using two separate reservoirs, one for the front brakes and one for the back brakes, each set has its own separate circuit. If one brake begins to leak, only that circuit will be compromised.

I really appreciate how Wilwood has helped me to set up a really clean and neat installation. The reservoir lines are nice and tightly packed together in the engine compartment, and the lines take up very little space in the DS footbox. It really makes it easier to do everything necessary in that tight space.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55421&d=1466916004

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55433&d=1466918326

I also found that the simplest way to route the flexible brake lines to the calipers was to point the 45 degree fitting on each caliper downward. By doing this, it keeps the flexible line in a nice, smooth, "S" curve, and it doesn't interfere with the shocks or the wheels.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55426&d=1466916007

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55425&d=1466916006

[Jazzman]

The next step was to actually bleed the brakes. I have borrowed an air powered vacuum bleeder from a friend of mine. It is an amazing tool that makes bleeding the brakes really easy. Just attach the hose to the bleeder nipple, open the nipple a little, turn on the vacuum, and it sucks the brake fluid right through the lines. I have a case of six bottles of Wilwood 570 degree DOT 3 racing brake fluid. Should be enough. Simple, right? Yes, but first you have to get ready to actually pull the fluid through.

I found a note in the box of brake fluid that all the brake line fittings should be installed using blue Loctite on the threads. Somehow, I had missed that fact when I first installed the brake lines. Oh well, I methodically began at the reservoirs, removed each fitting, added Blue Loctite, and put them back together again. Simple enough on the front brakes, everything is accessible. However, the rear brake line fittings are all way up under the rear suspension, very difficult to get to. I reinstalled all the fittings I could get to, but decided to forego the connections way up high under the trunk floor. You remember the trunk floor, the one that I riveted in with not quite a thousand rivets a while back? Yeah, that one, the one that would have made is so easy to get to those fittings. But hey, I tightened everything when I put it together, it should be fine, right? Lesson: DO NOT RIVET IN THE TRUNK FLOOR UNTIL YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER CHOICE!! ACCESS UNDER THERE WOULD BE AWFULLY NICE!

Instructions say to bleed the farthest brake first, in my case, the rear PS. So I fill the "rear" reservoir. Good news, no leaks seen. Now, get yourself fully distracted by the other people that are working in your shop with you. Your dad will ask for help with his wood cutting project. No problem. Go do that. Your son the Hewlett Packard service tech offers to update your printer firmware. It was a very generous offer. Of course you accept. Get him a network cable. Go get a bottle of water to cool down. Have a conversation with your mom and wife, confirm that they are going to shopping. Ok. What were you doing? Oh yes, the brakes. You go back to that project, only to find a 3 foot long puddle of brake fluid under the PS rear brake line! How did that get there? You weren't even trying to bleed the lines! Oh yes, your old nemesis, gravity! I guess the good news is that you know the fluid actually does come through the lines.

Now you have to clean up all that brake fluid. That stuff must be toxic waste! It etched the powder coating on some of the parts it dripped from, and took the first layer of dirt and grease off my epoxied floor. By now even an idiot like me realizes that I have a serious leak somewhere, but where. Oh yes, those fittings in the rear that are really hard to get to. Ok, I give up. With the help of my brother in law, I climb under there, unscrew everything, add blue Loctite, and then tighten it all back up again. It still leaks. We do the whole process over again, and discover that the flare on one line is not quite matching up straight with the fitting. A bit of bending, a bit of scuffed knuckes, more blue Loctite, and all is sealed up. Bleed the brakes again. This time it all sealed up and the brakes are working.

The front brakes were much more simple. Fill the reservoir, use the vacuum bleeder, and they pretty much worked right away. I had a bit of leak, but then discovered that I had not quite tightened one of the nipples after I bled the caliper. Once that was take care of, I started testing the entire system by pushing the brake pedal. It works great. I will need to do some adjusting of the balancing bar later, but for now the bleeding is done.

EDIT: It took me three bottles of brake fluid to get the bleeding done. However, If you do not sacrifice most of one bottle to the floor, you might be able to do it with two. If you only use one reservoir, you should almost assuredly be able to do it with two.

I finally get to install the wheels and tires. Here are the Nitto Invo Tires:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55424&d=1466916006

The rears are 295's, the fronts are 255's. There just are very few matching sets of tires in the 18" size. The Nitto NT-01's and NT555's didn't have a matching set front and rear in the right sizes, and they are "Drag Radials" that I was warned would not have decent tread wear on the hot Arizona asphalt. The INVO's are the best combination I could find. They seem like really good tires, and the tread design is unique. Time will tell if they are an appropriate tire for this application.

I did a simple vertical alignment of the rear hub/brake rotor by using a level. I needed to tighten up the upper control arm fittings to bring the top of the tire toward the centerline of the car. However, I do not have a 1.5" open end box wrench. I improvised: I used a medium size "C" clamp, tightened it on the adjustment section of the upper control arm. About a turn and a half, and it was close enough for my purposes for now.

After installing all the wheels and tires, I have to say that this was one of the most exciting moments of the build. It really looks like it will be a car, and I did it!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55432&d=1466916193

[wareaglescott]

Exciting to see the progress! Nice work. Appreciate your description of lessons learned. They are going in my notes so hopefully I can learn from your frustrations and skip them myself!

[Jazzman]

By now you probably know that my level of respect and admiration for EdwardB is absolutely off the charts! Not only is he an amazing builder, a great teacher, but he is also a very kind individual. After my last post involving the use of Blue Loctite on the brake fittings, he sent me a private message about that practice. Here is what he said:

"Hi Kevin. Just read your post about finishing up and bleeding your brake lines. Rather than post in your build thread I'll send this PM. I'm a little surprised about your comments regarding using blue Loctite for the brake fittings. I've never heard of that before. Wilwood says to do that? On the flared fittings? At the very least, it should be on the threads only, and not on or near the flare itself. That's a 100% mechanical seal. The threads have nothing to do with the sealing on a flared fitting other than to hold the flare together. Adding Loctite could (I guess...) keep the threads from loosening, but should have nothing to do with the flared seal itself. Every instruction and practice I've even been involved in says use nothing on flared seals other than maybe lubricate them with a little brake fluid during assembly, which I typically do. The concerns are (as mentioned) it's a mechanical only seal and should seal accordingly, and you don't want anything in there to contaminate the brake fluid. The only place you should be using sealant on your brake fittings is for the NPT fittings going into the calipers and MC's. PST thread sealant from Loctite or Permatex (Loctite 37615 works well) is what should be used. Some guys use Teflon tape, but that's not generally recommended either. Of course Wilwood does talk about using Loctite on mounting bolts, but that's entirely different. Just thought I would share FWIW."

As usual, Paul is completely correct. I had all the various instructions stacked together about installing brake lines and bleeding them. I have FFR instructions, Wilwood instructions that came with the brake sets, Wilwood instructions that came with the bottles of brake fluid (similar, but slightly different), and the instructions that came with the CNC Reservoir Kit. After EdwardB's very thoughtful message, I went back and re-read all the instructions again to see if I had screwed up. It turns out it was NOT Wilwood that suggested this practice, it was the instructions from CNC, Inc., that came with the reservoir setup. Here is exactly what they wrote:

"Seal the threads on all fitting with Loctite thread sealant". (Singular word "fitting" is exactly as they wrote it. Probably a typo.)

Point of clarification: I only put Loctite on the threads, NOT on the flare area. I was very careful about that, because as EdwardB so accurately states, I didn't want to contaminate the brake fluid. However, in my ignorance, I was not aware that Loctite made a "thread sealant" that was different from the blue or red thread lock liquid. (And I am pretty sure you sure don't ever want red Loctite anywhere near a brake line!!)

So for the benefit of anyone reading my thread, I don't want you to make the same mistake that I have made. At least thus far, it does not seem to have done any damage, but this is always an exercise in learning, honesty, and transparency. Thank you, EdwardB, for adding one more item to my education list. I so appreciate your caring enough to educate me, and by extension, all of us.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the very generous comments. Happy to help. We're all learning, just at different stages. Sharing our learning (and hard knocks) is what makes this forum great. The CNC reservoirs also have NPT fittings, so it makes sense that their instructions say to use sealant on the threads.

[Jazzman]

I've gotten a little behind on my updates, so while I have some time, I decided to try to catch up. Over a week ago, I refocused on the Flip top. I began by rebuilding the body buck (yes, again!!) Remember when I cut the sheets of OSB board to make the actual body support panels? Well, I saved the other half of those sheets, the ones that should fit the top of the body. I attached these other sheets to create a "reverse body buck". This makes it possible to support the body when it is upside down, and place it at a reasonable working level. I had to modify the curves just a little bit. The body buck design is not an exact replica of the body.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55709&d=1467563646

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55710&d=1467563646

I built some "T" supports to support the body at the door area. With the help of a bunch of my kids friends (yes, even though one son is now in San Diego, and the other one is married and moved out, their friends still congregate here. Lucky us!!) We turned the body upside down and got it on the buck. A bit of adjustment here and there, and it is ready to go (or so I thought!!)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55708&d=1467563646

[Jazzman]

Now that I can really see the trusses attached to the body, I wanted to be sure the locations are correct.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55707&d=1467563646

I began by measuring the distance of the front of the trusses from the front of the body. I knew there would be a bit of difference, but I was shocked to find there was 3/4" difference between the two sides! It's kind of hard to see due to the angle of these photos, but trust me, there is a significant difference.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55698&d=1467563646

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55699&d=1467563646

Did I do something wrong? Did I miss some obvious clue that the trusses were not attached correctly? I went back through my entire construction process. The body was installed and fitted. It was attached at multiple points so I could not move. The trusses were fitted into the space with the body in place. They should support the body exactly where it should be supported. I finally decided to measure the fore/aft position of the trusses off of the back side of the headlight area. This prominent feature appears to be very symmetrical. It turns out that the trusses are exactly the same distance behind the headlight ring.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55702&d=1467563646

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55701&d=1467563646

It turns out that everything was right where it should be. The body is not exactly the same shape left to right. I measured at the tips of the trusses where they come closest to the lower lip of the body. They are different, but not quite as much. After sighting over the trusses, the problem is simply that the body has a slightly different shape. It is not noticeable to the naked eye. You only discover it when you are trying to make things like trusses match.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55706&d=1467563646

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55705&d=1467563646

After confirming all the locations, I rechecked that I had marked the correct locations for all the attachment disks on the body. I removed all the truss hardware, removed all the bolts and brackets, and packaged up all parts for powder coating. I have one more piece to weld to the trusses, then I will have to spend some time grinding and polishing before they will be ready for coating.

[Jazzman]

King had told me to glass the old hood to the body before I turned it over. I tried to simply bolt on the old hood and only lay glass on the inside. It turns out that King was right. I needed to turn the body back over and glass in the hood, then put the body upside down back on the reverse body buck. More kids were over again last night for a swim party, so with their help, off came the body from the buck and back on the floor, right side up. Last night before I went to bed I re-read all the instructions I could find, went over my notes from 2BKing and MikeInAtlanta, watched a couple of YouTube videos, and laid out all my materials. At 11:45pm, I decided I was too tired to start something this important. Off to bed.

This morning I got up rested and decided to attack my very first attempt at fiberglassing with Vinylester Resin. First, the tools for the job: A gallon of resin, the small bottle of MEKP Hardener (nasty stuff!), a mix and measure cup, a tin can with about 1" of acetone in it to store/clean the tools, a roller tool, a plastic plate, a disposable paint brush, and a tongue depressor stirring stick.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55713&d=1467563762

I cut 3" wide strips of fiberglass cloth for the three sides that I plan to glass in.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55712&d=1467563762

I donned the "bunny suit", a Tyvek coverall suit and pulled on the rubber gloves. This is sweaty outfit when it is over 90 degrees!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55714&d=1467563763

I decided to make just a 4oz batch to see if I got the right working time. Because I had been told that this is nasty stuff, I sacrificed my comfort and opened up my nice cool garage to be sure get enough air flow. It is 95 degrees outside at 8am. Welcome to Arizona in the summer. The instructions say to use 10 drops of MEKP hardener for each oz of resin. After talking to MikeInAtlanta, and US Composites, they both encouraged me to reduce the hardener when temperatures are above 90 degrees. They said I could take it down to 50% of the recommended amount of hardener, but this would really slow the curing time. I decided to try an 80% mix: 8 drops of MEKP to each oz of resin. Lesson 1: the resin doesn't pour out of a gallon can very well when you only want 4oz. I made a small mess, but nothing too bad. I added 32 drops of MEKP (4oz x 8 drops each = 32 drops) Per instructions I mixed it for 2 minutes. Lesson 2: get a big clock in the shop. It is not a good idea to have to push the button on the iPhone to see what time it is with this stuff on your fingers!! After mixing for two minutes, I poured the material into the plastic plate. I have been told that leaving it in the mixing cup can speed up the curing time, so to slow the cure, keep it cooler by spreading it out a bit. I then used the paint brush to paint the resin on the body where the fiberglass would be placed. I laid down the pre-cut piece of fiberglass, then liberally painted resin on the top of the fiberglass to thoroughly saturate the fiberglass. Then the roller was used to spread it all out evenly and work out any bubbles. Sorry, no photos on this part of the process. I didn't have time or clean hands to take photos and still lay down the fiberglass and resin.

When it was all done, the 4oz of resin was just enough to install the three pieces of fiberglass along the sides and at the front of the old hood. In hindsight I would have felt more comfortable having a little left over, so 5 oz might have been a better idea. Since I didn't glass in the top of the old hood, I did not use any resin in this area. If you do, you should shoot for 6 oz of resin. However, I found that I was just about at the end of the working life of the catalyzed resin when I got through 4 oz. I might have gotten through 5, but six seems unlikely unless I seriously slow down the cure rate.

Here is the final product. Not real impressive, but certainly a good start.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55715&d=1467563764

I found that this stuff is not that hard to use. It doesn't stink as much as I expected. It's working time is short, so don't make up much more than about 4 oz at a time. It's full cure time is as yet unknown. As I write this, it is three hours from when the resin was mixed. The disposable paint brush is hard as a rock. The resin applied to the fiberglass is still somewhat tacky. I am not going to move the body back to the buck until I am absolutely sure the resin is completely cured. I'll let you know how long I wait.

[ncbuilder]

Are the fiberglass cloth pieces that you laid down , just a temporary job ? If this is going to be a permanent repair the red gel coat should have been ground completely off on the surface of the hood and the surface of the main body where the strips of cloth were placed.

[Jazzman]

Thank you, NCbuilder, for reminding me of what I forgot to post. You are right. This is just a temporary job. I intentionally did not sand off the red gelcoat because I want this to stick, but not stick too well. After I glass in the backside of this joint, then I will remove this single layer of glass on the outside, grind the area down to create a "valley" for the permanent glass layers, and then lay three or four layers of permanent fiberglass. Sorry I did not make that more clear in my original post. Thanks for watching out for me!!

[ncbuilder]

You are welcome ! I did not see anything about being temporary but I new I could have missed it. Good luck with your build, I have thoroughly enjoyed it.

[WIS89]

Jazz-

Still looking great! I also thought it to be pretty cool that your kids' friends stop in to help.

I admire your work, and your guts! Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Regards,

Steve

[2bking]

For anyone interested in making a flip front, there is a complete set of drawings and material list available. All you have to do is ask. Kevin and I are teaming up to document the process from my build as well as his. He has demonstrated, so far, how easy the parts are to fab. I think the hardest phase is in the fiberglass work. Kevin is pioneering the idea of retaining the lip at the rear of the hood and utilizing the Type 65 hood latches. He has also found ways to speed the build.

Maybe I was wrong about the fiberglass work as being the hardest phase. It's gut check time just before the body gets cut apart!

[carlewms]

Nice work!

[wareaglescott]

Nice work Kevin! IF your neighbors haven't deemed you crazy yet about this car project try walking around the neighborhood midday in the bunny suit. That should seal the deal! haha

[2FAST4U]

Excellent and impressive!!

[Jazzman]

Thanks for all the support folks. 2BKing is the master engineer on this "Flip-Top" project. Without his drawings, there is no way I would have even attempted something this complex. However to be clear, it is not the fabrication that is complex, it is the engineering, but 2BKing has already done that . I am merely demonstrating that if you like it, you really can do it. I certainly do not possess any special fabrication background or deep knowledge of auto manufacture, composites, or other unique aspects of the Flip Top. Thus far there has only been two parts that I did not actually manufacture myself, and the only reason I didn't is that I have a friend who wanted to demonstrate his mill, and I wanted to see it work. You only have to want to do a Flip Top, 2BKing has already done the heavy lifting. I just hope that I can add a few new wrinkles and simplifications to the process. If you are interested in doing this mod, contact 2BKing or me privately to discuss it further.

[Jazzman]

Last night I fabricated the "Teeth" that will keep the sides of the body smoothly aligned when closed. It also designed to smoothly transition the body pieces together as the hood is closing. I purchased six 1.5" long bullet shaped license plate bolts. The ones I selected are from MoonEyes's. These will be the aligning "teeth". I began with 1.25" aluminum 90 degree angle stock. I cut the lower piece 10" long, the upper piece 13" long, one set for each side of the car. From the aft end of each angle channel, I marked holes 1/2" away from the 90 degree corner, and 1", 4.5", and 8" from the end. I drilled both sides with holes the correct size to receive the attachment bolts on the bottoms of the "bullet".

*****EDIT: IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO THIS, USE 1" ALUMINUM 90 DEGREE ANGLE STOCK, NOT 1.25". YOU WILL READ WHY LATER, BUT FOR NOW, TRUST ME: 1" STOCK!

*****EDIT #2: DON'T BUILD THIS PIECE UNTIL YOU GET TO POST #324. I REMAKE THESE PIECES LATER, MAKING THE LOWER RECEIVER PIECE LONGER.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55741&d=1467658625

Then I went out and purchased a 9/16"drill bit and enlarged the receiving hole to just fit around the "teeth". I ended up with a pair of these, ready to glue to the inside body on either side of the cut lines when it is cut.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55742&d=1467658625

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55748&d=1467658629

I then started cutting out the area that will allow the exhaust pipes to pass through the body. Since FFR had already marked them on the body, I followed the instructions in the FFR manual and began by drilling the holes to form the curved tops. Right? WRONG!! The first one came out OK, just as FFR had marked it.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55744&d=1467658627

I drilled the holes for the other side as FFR had marked it. What did I forget? TO MEASURE TO MAKE SURE FFR DIDN'T GET SLOPPY! The holes I drilled were correct as drawn, but once they were drilled they just looked like they were too far forward. I began cutting with the sabre saw, but my mind said stop and double check. Now I think to measure, and sure enough, they are not correct. So now I have a hole too far forward, and a cut line that will have to be filled. Oh well, at least I now know how to do such a repair.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55745&d=1467658627

[Jazzman]

Today I began cutting the underside of the "old hood" to begin the irreversible march toward a full Flip Top. I began by carefully cutting out a section of the lip that would normally hold the "old hood" level. I started at the front of the car and worked my way back. It is important that I NOT cut off this support lip at the back of the "old hood" because this lip will be the beginning of the support structure for the trailing edge of the entire Flip Top. I used my Die Grinder with a cutting wheel to carefully cut back the lip until I could see how much to cut.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55746&d=1467658628

To control the fiberglass dust as much as possible, I laid my shop vac hose end right next to where I was using the cutting wheel and continued to move it along as I cut. This really did a very good job of sucking up the vast majority of the dust. There was still a little bit, so I would vacuum that up as I went.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55747&d=1467658629

Because my air compressor is severely under powered, I had to rotate between cutting, waiting for the compressor, grinding the seam smooth with a heavy duty sanding disk on the side grinder, and sanding the area smooth with 100 grit sand paper on the RO palm sander. WHile the shop vac could handle the small about of sanding dust created by the cutting wheel, it was no match for the large volume of dust created by the side grinder with the sanding disk. I gave up trying to control all the dust, opened the garage door, and let the 95 plus degree air envelop me.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55749&d=1467658630

After about an hour of work, this was the result. The lip is all gone except at the back, the entire area is sanded smooth, ready to have fiberglass and resin laid on.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55750&d=1467658631

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55751&d=1467658632

[Jazzman]

My goal tonight was to cement the truss attachment disks to the inside of the body so that I could begin laying the fiberglass around the seam of the old hood. All of the attachment discs will get covered with at least one layer of fibreglass to make sure they stay attached, but one of the attachment points will be covered by the first or second layer of fiberglass going around the old hood seam. Since I want to attach the side wall body/hood alignment "teeth" using this same cement, I wanted to do all the cement work at the same time. Therefore I decided to begin the actual cutting process of the body and attaching the alignment teeth. This proved to be an exercise in trial and error. My first idea was to attach these alignment teeth to the inside of the body using the same type of attachment discs that I am using to attach the trusses. In Theory, This method would make the alignment teeth slightly adjustable.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55790&d=1467697109

After trying to position and mount the pieces using this method, I found that it had a couple of drawbacks. First, it held the positioning teeth mounting piece slightly proud of the body. I don't think this looks very good. I also don't think I would hold these weaker areas of the body securely, which is one of the main benefits of this design. It was also surprisingly difficult to get the mounting disks positioned and secured in position and still match up with mounting holes on the angle alumininum. Therefore after much trial and error I came upon a simpler method. Now you have to remember that the body is upside down and thus everything you are seeing is upside down. When I refer to the "top" piece, remember that you will see it at the bottom of the photos, and vice versa.

I had to start by cutting the body apart to separate the section that I would be working in. I cut only a couple of inches beyond where I would be attaching the positioning teeth.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55793&d=1467697109

I first attached the bottom piece of the positioning teeth to the lower half of the side. (Now that the "body" and the "hood" are cut apart, I will refer to the lower half of the side as the "body", and the upper portion of the side as the "hood". Therefore, what I just said means that the piece that is on the top in the photo was attached first, even though it is the bottom piece when the car is right side up. Got it?!!) The lower angle aluminum is the piece that has the large 9/16" holes that the teeth will slide into as the hood closes. After sanding the front edge to match the angle of the vertical cut which will end up over the exhaust pipes, I lined up the front of the angle aluminum with that vertical cut line. I then lined up the piece with the horizontal cut line. Using a small "C" clamp, I held the piece in place. I then drilled holes directly through the body and used 8x32 bolts to hold the piece in place.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55786&d=1467697109

I slid the upper piece of the alignment Teeth (The part with the actual teeth) into the holes in the lower alignment piece. To leave just a slight space between the upper and lower pieces, I inserted 1.5" box nails from the outside of the body through the marking holes that were still visible after the cut was made and between the upper and lower angle aluminum pieces. I used another "C" clamp to squeeze the upper and lower halves of the alignment teeth system together sandwiching the box nails between them. I again drilled through the body and attached the upper angle aluminum piece to the hood sidewall with bolts and nuts.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55787&d=1467697109

Now that the sides are aligned and the body is held in place against fore/aft movement, I added a retaining strap across the horizontal cut line to keep the body/hood from pulling apart vertically. ultimately I will glue each of the angle aluminum pieces in place to permanently position them. However, To make sure That everything works and fits after it gets back on the frame, I am leaving the alignment teeth simply bolted to the body/hood in case anything has to be some adjustment.

[Jazzman]

After spending most of the evening attaching the alignment Teeth, I was finally able to achieve the goal of cementing the truss attachment discs to the underside of the hood. I pulled out he 3M Composite and Metal bonding cement #08219, and the funny looking "caulking gun" that dispenses this stuff.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55784&d=1467697109

I tested it a bit to get a feel for it, then I began to apply it to the locations where the discs will go. On those locations that required it, I bent the base of the disc slightly to make it form to the curve of the hood. Then all there was to it was to put the disk in place and let the cement ooze through the holes. Pretty simple.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55782&d=1467697109

Getting the discs to adhere to the vertical surface of the front area was a bit tougher. I had to keep sliding them back into place until the cement set up sufficiently.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55783&d=1467697109

IN the next few days, I hope to begin applying the fiberglass around the old hood seam.

[2bking]

One trick to keeping the studs in place until the adhesive cures is to put a piece of duct tape across them. It's also easier to smooth the adhesive that comes up through the holes before the adhesive sets than have to sand it afterwards.