Jazzman’s #8745 "Flip Top" Build [Archive] - Page 4

Jazzman

07-23-2017, 10:26 PM

Practice clearly makes improvement. The hood went on with far less drama than the last time. It still fights a little bit, but where would be the fun if it all slipped together easily! The hinge connections are still slightly loose so that they can settle into correct placement as it settles into the body. (learned that trick the second time around . . . or was it the third???).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71016&d=1500865180

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71017&d=1500865181

I started attaching the hood scoop. I first trimmed 1/2" from the outside edge. The lip was a full 1.25" wide, and it just looked too wide. I began at the top (the rear) and measured the center of the opening that was already cut. There just doesn't seem to be any good point across the entire hood to measure from. So many curves, no straight lines! I attached the scoop at the top center hole so that it hung down (hopefully) straight. I then used a 4' drywall square to measure the front edges to make sure they were centered. Because of the way the hood curves at this point, I can lay the square across the hood and have it touch at the center, at the fender roll, and on the side at the fender edge. It is the most consistent measuring point I could figure out. After confirming that both sides were equal distance from the fenders, I drilled two more holes at the bottom and screwed the bottom of the scoop into place. I drilled all the remaining holes spaced 2" apart.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71011&d=1500865175

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71012&d=1500865176

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71013&d=1500865177

I stepped back to admire my handiwork . . . and something is not right. Yes, I screwed up (yes again!!) I centered the bottom of the scoop, but not the top. It is just enough outside of perfect to drive me nuts for the rest of my life!! So now, I have to take it off, fill all the holes, re-mark it all, attach it correctly, and re-drill the new holes. (I hope to high heaven that Kandy Shoppe Creations can fix my mistakes!!)

Jazzman

07-23-2017, 10:39 PM

I am almost ready to put the body onto the frame (hopefully) for the last time. Matt at Kandy Shoppe Creations suggested that I add a layer of sound deadening material on the underside of the body in placed that will never be seen. I ordered one more box (that's a total of three for those that are counting) of the 70mm thick Thermo Tec Cool It Heat and Acoustical Control Mat. In short order I had cut up and used every last inch of it. All of it will never be seen.

I started by applying it below and in front of the doors.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71009&d=1500865174

Then I cut a large piece to put into the space between the roll bars above the trunk. This will also have an added advantage of reflecting the LED lighting inside the upper trunk area.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71010&d=1500865174

I added large strips to the space above and in front of the dash, above the firewall.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71008&d=1500865173

Finally, I added pieces inside the rear quarter panels:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71007&d=1500865172

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71006&d=1500865171

It really does make the body sound very solid. I hope to never see it again! :rolleyes: Now if I can get my son to come over after he watches "Game of Thrones", we will put the body on tonight . . . I hope!!

Jazzman

07-24-2017, 10:45 AM

Apparently "Game of Thrones" was a full evening event. My son did not have time to come over and help me get the body on. I am looking at my remaining punch list of items before the car goes back to the Kandy Shoppe. I realized that I still need to cut the slots in the top of the body for the windshield. The marks for the slots are long gone. Does anyone have any drawings or measurements of where those slots should be? I can probably figure out where they should be side to side based upon the mounting points on the body, but how far forward of the edge do the slots begin, and how long are the slots? Any photos and measurements of a factory cut body would be appreciated. Thanks!!

Jazzman

08-01-2017, 10:45 PM

Late last week i finally was able to get the help I needed to put the body on for (hopefully) the last time. It went on very easily. The bolt holes on the DS lined up fine, just a little encouragement, and they slipped right into place. This time it was the PS that was stubborn. It took more than a little encouragement to get the bolts into place. I have no idea why it wouldn't just slip into place like the other side. I even loosened the other side a bit to let the entire body "float" just a little while I got all the bolts in place. I finally got it to fit together, but it was a fight! This time I used blue loctite on the bolts holding the body in place. I didn't want those little beggars falling out and going into the rear tire! The body feels very solid. It sounds great when you tap on it. It sounds thick and solid. I think the sound control sheets on the inside of the body are doing their job. I only wish i could apply some sound control inside the doors. They still sound too hollow. He FFR: how about pre-filling the doors with expanding foam to make the doors sound more solid.

I put the dash back in. I intentionally put the body on without the dash in place to see if it could be installed (or removed) with the body in place. I am am glad I did this test. And the answer is . . . failed! I did get the dash into place, but it was a very ugly and difficult process. I wouldn't ever want to do it again that way! The ends don't fit correctly, and it required some serious bending and twisting of the dash to get it into place. While the dash was off, one of the invisible mounting brackets came off. I have not yet found an adhesive that will bond aluminum to aluminum. I examined the other three mounting brackets. While they still seem to be firmly attached, the adhesive that squeezed out around the edge doesn't look "right". I am concerned that one or more of the brackets will fail in the future. Without small bolts or rivets holding the brackets in place, I am just not sure this system is trustworthy. i have been seriously thinking about making an entirely new dashboard. I'm not happy with the mounting system, I trimmed the top too low, and I can lay an even more smooth finish, So I am going to make another dashboard. I will do it after the car is painted. For now, I will keep this one in place.

Saturday morning I took the car out for the first drive in quite a while. As expected, the Coyote fired right up. I love this engine!! I drove it around the neighborhood for about 15 minutes, but it was just too hot to do any more than that. It drove great!! Good news, the oil pressure gauge registers quite well. I was initially very concerned because when I fired up the engine, the oil pressure rocketed up to almost 100. However, it dropped steadily as the idle settled down, and once I had driven it for only a minute, it dropped down to very acceptable level. Bad news: the water temperature gauge still does not respond. I will have to go back and trace that one for the upteenth time. This one should't be this difficult. Clearly I am missing something.

I am meeting this week with several people that have been following my build with interest. I took a few photos to show them my progress while I had the car outside.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71630&d=1501640750

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71628&d=1501640550

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71623&d=1501640345

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71627&d=1501640522

The hidden trunk support system works wonderfully!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71625&d=1501640400

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71624&d=1501640372

There are still a lot of details to figure out before I take the entire car back to the Kandy Shoppe:
1. The doors don't quite fit as well as I would like. The top of the doors, both front and back, can be adjusted into a location that very smoothly flows from one panel to the next. The bottom front of the door fits Ok as well. The problem is the bottom rear corners of the door. They both protrude out beyond the bottom of the body in that area. I haven't quite figured out what to do about that.
2. The hood scoop is close, but close isn't good enough. I will have to remove and re-install it in a correctly centered location.
3. The correct broken emergency brake part arrived. Thankfully this should be a pretty easy fix. Just have to get to it.
4. The hood will need some rubber bumper material along the edge that that will rub on the body. I need to find the right material, and haven't found it yet. It needs to be about 1" wide, no more than 1/8" thick when the dash is closed, and firm enough to stand up to the rigors of a vibrating hood. Since the inside of the hood is already painted, I could attach the rubber stripping on the inside of the hood. This is the preferred location from an appearance standpoint. However, I am not sure if I should permanently install it until the entire body is completely painted, inside and out. I will have to ask my painter. Ideas for sources of high quality, self stick, closed cell or firm rubber weather stripping would be appreciated.
5. Adjusting the hood and it's relationship to the body is a critical process. I want the hood to close as smoothly as possible, and the teeth to line up as naturally as possible with the holes into which they will go. This will be a slow trial and error process of carefully adjusting how the hood is mounted to the hinge systems to fine the most advantageous combination of adjustments. This one will be slow.
6. The trunk needs to be fitted into the opening, and appropriate gaps established. I think I will just leave this for the body work people. The same is probably true for the hood/body gaps. They would probably re-do my attempts anyway!!
7. I have torn the shop apart, but I can't find the DS hood latch. Thankfully I have one more unmodified latch that I can modify to fit. It is just frustrating to have to redo this part when I know it is somewhere! I just can't figure out where I put it. (I fully expect to find the lost latch as soon as I complete the modification of the new latch!!) Once I get the new latch made, then I will have to get them fully adjusted so that the sides of the car close to the point that the correct gap is left. This should be fun!!

wareaglescott

08-02-2017, 05:46 AM

Looking good Kevin!
On the oil pressure jumping to 100psi on start and staying high initially that is what I see every time and have read many other accounts from other builders on the exact same behavior. That is normal.
Interesting comment on wanting the doors heavier. I actually quite like the light weight and ease at which they open and close. Mine close with almost no effort.

You didn't mention it but where you able to determine where to make the openings for the windshield?

I think I saw the new puppy heading out to the back yard with the latch in his mouth!! ha
Have a good trip and I look forward to the next update.

edwardb

08-02-2017, 07:54 AM

I only wish I could apply some sound control inside the doors. They still sound too hollow. He FFR: how about pre-filling the doors with expanding foam to make the doors sound more solid.

You're making great progress! Some have used expanding foam on the inside of the doors and report it makes them sound more solid. But be careful. Use only the low pressure type. Some doors have been destroyed by using the wrong type of foam. Even with the right material, there's some risk IMO and I haven't taken the chance. I'm guessing you don't have any type of gasket material around the door edges yet? With D-tube self adhesive cushion around the edges they sound much better when closing and I find completely acceptable. The originals with their steel frame and thin aluminum skins probably didn't sound like your father's Oldsmobile when closing either. :D

The doors don't quite fit as well as I would like. The top of the doors, both front and back, can be adjusted into a location that very smoothly flows from one panel to the next. The bottom front of the door fits Ok as well. The problem is the bottom rear corners of the door. They both protrude out beyond the bottom of the body in that area. I haven't quite figured out what to do about that.

Door fitting can be challenging. Usually, the PS falls into place without too much drama. The DS is the one most of us have trouble with. With where you're at in the finishing process, not the right time to be doing more body work. I'd suggest moving the body out slightly at the rear corners. That's the usual practice to help with the DS. Sounds like you need to do it on both sides. I like to add a piece of rubber cushion behind the body when I move it out so it's still sitting against something solid. But that's just my preference. Likely not really required. It bends pretty easily and shouldn't take much. If you have the body firmly anchored toward the front of the doors, shouldn't affect your tilt front alignment.

mrpipes

08-13-2017, 08:12 AM

If you decide to redo your dash, take a look at these:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#pem-style-studs/=18x7gtc

Brian

Jazzman

08-13-2017, 11:23 PM

The checklist is getting shorter. I got the slots marked and cut for the windshield. I used a small straight edge to line up where the slot had to be on the underside of the body. I drilled the a marker hole from the underside up throught the top to show where the slot edge should be. I used a 1/4" drill bit to cut the slot, leaving it intentionally short. I had to do a bit of cutting and fitting.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72268&d=1502681360

I discovered I did one thing right: making the top of the DS footbox removeable even after the body is on was invaluable. (Of course I wouldn't have needed it If I had cut the slots earlier!!) By being able to remove the cover, I was able to gain access to the underside of the body to cut the slot for the windshield support.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72267&d=1502681339

I trimmed 1.25" off the bottom of the windshield support bracket. I do love the die-grinder with a cutoff wheel!! A bit of smoothing and shaping, a couple of holes drilled in each side, and the windshield is ready to mount. Now it's back in it's box until the paint is done.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72269&d=1502681374

I removed four of the five screws that I had holding the hood scoop in place. I measured multiple times from multiple points and I am convinced the top/back center mounting hole is in the right place. I was able to slide the front/nose end of the scoop about 1/8" to the PS, and the scoop now looks like it is line up perfectly. Visually from every angle it looks right. However when I measure it, it technically is not quite centered. Please don't tell anyone!! As it turns out, the change is so small that the extra holes will be entirely covered by the washers on the underside of the scoop opening. Looks like I dodged a bullet on that one.

Jazzman

08-13-2017, 11:38 PM

I test fitted the filler panel below and inside the doors. I discovered a pretty big problem: They are not deep enough!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72262&d=1502681250

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72263&d=1502681270

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72264&d=1502681289

The horizontal portion is not wide enough to cover the frame and the carpet. I also decided I did not like the powdercoated look on this part. I think it should be color matched to the paint. I have to make a completly new piece to be wide enought to correctly cover the opening. Since I am remaking it anyway, I decided to make it a bit longer on either end to more completely cover he opening between the frame and the body. At the rear of the door opening, the trim piece did not completely cover the open space. I know, I know, I am being anal again. It's a gift . . . and a curse!

I spent quite a bit of time drawing out and expanding the size of the trim pieces to provide a truly custom fit. I also decided to make a 1/4" rolled over edge to cover the edge of the carpet. The pieces are all drawn, but this is far too complex for me to try to bend myself. I am going to have to find someone with a very nice sheet metal brake that can help me form these up.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72266&d=1502681322

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72265&d=1502681311

I never did find the missing hood latch. After making three of them, I am pretty good at modifying the last one. I made short work of that and installed the DS latch on the body. After the car is at the Kandy Shoppe for final paint, I am going to work with my friend with the mill to make some stainless steel cover plates that will hide the adjustable nature of the frame mounted latch points.

edwardb

08-14-2017, 07:04 AM

I test fitted the filler panel below and inside the doors. I discovered a pretty big problem: They are not deep enough!

You are planning leave those exposed versus using the supplied carpet pieces to cover? With carpet, the fit isn't critical because they're completely buried. I'm a nut for powder coat, but those are two of only a few parts on my build that aren't powder coated. I did add some binding on the exposed edge of the carpet. But other than that the kit supplied pieces.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2001082017/IMG_0933_edit_zpsph5g7rf5.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Update%2001082017/IMG_0933_edit_zpsph5g7rf5.jpg.html)

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_4487_zpstuluy09p.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Final%20Assembly/IMG_4487_zpstuluy09p.jpg.html)

Jazzman

08-15-2017, 01:19 AM

You are planning leave those exposed versus using the supplied carpet pieces to cover? With carpet, the fit isn't critical because they're completely buried. I'm a nut for powder coat, but those are two of only a few parts on my build that aren't powder coated. I did add some binding on the exposed edge of the carpet. But other than that the kit supplied pieces.

I had originally planned to do that, but I don't have one of the two strange pieces of carpet that you show in your first picture. I received two very unusual pieces like that, but one of them is significantly different than the other. (I tried to attach a photo, but am having difficulties uploading photos tonight.) I actually thought they were trash for the longest time because they didn't match, and didn't seem to go anywhere. Turns out one of them really doesn't go anywhere!! Bottom line, I don't have any carpet the right size and shapes to cover the spaces currently exposed. If I can get the pieces bent the way my mind's eye sees them, I think it should be a very good look. The challenge is going to be finding really talented sheet metal fabricator to get all the bends just so.

I drove the go-cart around the neighborhood a bit more this evening. My it drives nicely. I am so looking forward to getting it done and on the road. I think I could think and putter and check and recheck everything until St. Swithens Day, but I don't think I would be any further along than than I am now. I think it is time to send FlipTop back to the Kandy Shoppe for her final coats of Burgundy candy. I am going to call Matt tomorrow and have him send the truck. (much easier than me renting a trailer!!) I hope he is ready to take it.

wareaglescott

08-15-2017, 04:03 AM

The two pieces of carpet are different because one goes on each side and they are cut appropriately. It took me a few minutes to figure out how they are meant to go in but they work great once you figure it out.

Jazzman

08-18-2017, 01:23 PM

Nothing exciting to report . . . except that FlipTop is scheduled to leave for the Kandy Shoppe on Tuesday! It is ready for final paint. Here we go!!

wareaglescott

08-18-2017, 01:50 PM

excellent news and congrats. That is pretty exciting. Are they ready to get to work on yours or will there be some delay working you in?

Jazzman

08-18-2017, 03:06 PM

excellent news and congrats. That is pretty exciting. Are they ready to get to work on yours or will there be some delay working you in?

Matt says they are sending home four big projects today, so they expect to get right on my car as soon as it arrives. Here's hoping!!

WIS89

08-19-2017, 04:56 PM

Jazzman

08-19-2017, 07:15 PM

Kevin-

Very exciting news! You must be pretty stoked!

Do you know when you will be getting it back -- assuming they start right away?

I am looking forward to seeing her all candied up!

Regards,

Steve

Me too!! I don't know exactly, I suspect about a month, but that is a guess. The Kandy Shoppe does great work, but artistry takes time, and the artists will not be rushed! It will be worth the wait. I am absolutely confident.

KDubU

08-20-2017, 01:37 PM

Very cool! Can't wait to see her all done.

Jazzman

08-20-2017, 07:51 PM

I am clearly far too verbose! I have spent parts of the last three days, about 8 hours total, going through my own build thread to develop a table of contents. I am working on a written set of instructions for anyone wanting to do the Flip-Top modification. I was having difficulty finding all the various posts on each subject. Thus the need for a list of all posts on any subject. When it is done, I will add it to the first post in this thread. For now, I am only through page 12! I think I'll shut up now!

Jazzman

08-22-2017, 09:53 PM

I had a flashback today to the day I sent both my sons off to college on the same day. You know when they come back they will be better than when they left. You know it is good for them. But the house is eerily silent, empty.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72715&d=1503455773

Today I sent my "Baby" off to "college".

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72717&d=1503455912

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72716&d=1503455850

The "Bus" came late to pick her up, but it gave us time to take one more spin around the block. She is excited, strong, confident, even eager to go.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72712&d=1503455733

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72713&d=1503455749

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72714&d=1503455762

She will be molded, shaped, and polished into all she can be. It's exciting and nerve wracking all at the same time. And then . . . She was gone.

Jazzman

08-22-2017, 11:57 PM

Added the Table of Contents to Post #1.

Boydster

08-23-2017, 02:51 AM

How exciting after everything you've been through. Looking forward to the rest.

ThickCobra

08-23-2017, 09:00 AM

Jazzman,

Like many, I've been following your build. I have to say that your flip top looks fantastic. Even the side latches catches one's eye. That smooth, no opening front is just downright cool.

Jay

mia65cobra

08-23-2017, 09:05 AM

What an amazing build (and thread)! Congrats on sending her off!! Sub'd to see what I'm sure will be awesome results ;)

Jazzman

09-11-2017, 09:57 PM

It doesn't look like much has been done, but big strides have been made. The doors, trunk, and hood are all fitted, smoothed, shaped. The hood latch openings have been widened slightly to allow for the thickness of the paint and clear coats. The entire car has been been block sanded to 100 grit. It is fully prepared for the final coats of primer. Tomorrow it will go from Butter Yellow to Battleship Grey. It's progress, I'll take it!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73550&d=1505184161

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73549&d=1505184147

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73548&d=1505184130

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73547&d=1505184119

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73546&d=1505184105

Current estimated timeline is: final Primer and final sanding this week, Color coats and clear next week, Wetsanding and polish very close to the end of the month, estimated delivery back to me on or about 10/3. Right on Schedule! Gotta love these guys!!

wareaglescott

09-12-2017, 05:56 AM

I see your FFR wall hanger in the trunk. Are they painting that to match?

Jazzman

09-12-2017, 08:44 AM

I see your FFR wall hanger in the trunk. Are they painting that to match?

Of Course! I am not sure how good it will look indoors, but I'm doing it anyway. The paint is a deep burgundy. It is a beautiful deep, dark, red indoors and in the shade. It really pops when the sun hits it. I am not sure where I will hang it where it has a consistent possibility of being hit by the sun. It's still a nice memento.

Jazzman

09-14-2017, 12:31 AM

More small steps. Received these photos today from the painter. It may beat "Butter", but I am just as happy that it's not going to stay Battleship Grey for long!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73645&d=1505366503

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73646&d=1505366517

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73647&d=1505366529

Next week, Color (I hope!!) Last decision for the paint process: Ghost stripe or no stripe? Color is Burgundy Candy. Chime in with your opinions!! Thanks!

wareaglescott

09-14-2017, 04:09 AM

Ghost!!

WIS89

09-14-2017, 10:43 AM

Kevin-

Don't mock battleship grey, it's a terrific color, worn by Navies the world over! I really like the color you have chosen, and I look forward to seeing it on your car.

As far as stripe goes, I can see it with a stripe, or ghosted. Not a great answer, but a truthful one. If I HAD to choose, I would pick regular stripes. But, your question was ghost or no stripe, so I will vote for the ghosted stripes!

I look forward to seeing some color soon (I am SURE you are!)!

Regards,

Steve

Mark Eaton

09-16-2017, 11:05 AM

valin

09-16-2017, 07:28 PM

I think it's more like prison grey....... :)

Looking good my friend! Are you able to make the SEMA show this year? Would be nice to see you!

Jazzman

09-16-2017, 07:50 PM

Jazzman,
I am really enjoying reading your post and getting great ideas! Thanks for posting. I have a question about your powder coating. What color is that? and is it textured? It looks different to me that what I have seen on other posts.

Thanks,

Mark

I am glad that you are enjoying this lengthy build thread! That is "Hammered Silver" powder coat. it does have a texture to it. Just enough so it doesn't really show fingerprints. It didn't cost any more than black, and I think it adds some style. Reminders regarding powder coat:

1. Do all the pieces of one color at a time. It costs a LOT more to do it in batches. (Ask me how I know!! :)
2. Decide which pieces you really care about powder coating. I coated everything. A lot of it turns out to be a waste of money. It costs the same to have both sides of a single panel coated as it does to do just one side. The foot box pieces in the engine compartment will be seen in the engine bay, but covered with carpet inside the footboxes. The firewall, "F" Panels, and "Elephant ears will also be seen. The interior floor panels will be covered in carpet on the inside and only seen on the outside if you turn the car over. (At this point, nice looking powder coated undersides are the least of your issues!!) If you are going to carpet the trunk, those panels won't be seen. The trunk side panels and the rear elephant ears might be see in you really look hard for them, but realistically you would really have to want to see them. The rear tires fill most of the visual space. So when it comes down to it, how much might you really want/need to coat? Only the panels seen in the engine bay. Or you could just be obsessive like me and have everything done! :p
3. Drill all your holes first. It is easy to drill through the powder coat, but also relatively easy to scratch.
4. Do NOT try to clean powder coated panels of tape residue or "Sharpie" marks with brake cleaner or lacquer thinner. It will take the powder coat off. (Do I really need to explain how I know this? :p)
5. You might want to put bedliner on the elephant ears, both front and rear. They will get some torture from rocks coming off the tires. Powder coat will likely not stand up to that beating. (I didn't do this yet, but it is on the list of things to do after everything else is done. I am going to need something to do!!)

Jazzman

09-16-2017, 08:11 PM

I think it's more like prison grey....... :)

Looking good my friend! Are you able to make the SEMA show this year? Would be nice to see you!

Having spent very little time in prisons, and much more time around the San Diego Harbor, my perception of that color evokes a more positive connotation! Sadly, however, I think you are right! It really does look like a dreary "Prison Grey"! I didn't like the "Butter" much, but I think this dreary grey is worse. It will make the final product even more amazing!

I would love to go to SEMA, but sadly as a "Non-professional" they won't let me in. Diane and I came up last year for the final evening's event, and enjoyed it. I am trying to finagle some tickets, but so far, no joy. I'll be sure to connect with you if I find a way to get in. Enjoy the show in any event!

Thanks for the compliments. I am really hoping to have the car completed and titled by November 1. That may be a tall order, but I am going to try!! I am "staging" the parts for final installation now. Hopefully it will be a smooth final push to completion.

Mark Eaton

09-16-2017, 11:48 PM

I can't seem to find the Russ Thompson trunk box for sale on their website or anywhere else. Can you tell me from where you purchased it?

GoDadGo

09-17-2017, 05:38 AM

The amount of work to get to this point has been tremendous.
Keep plugging away & you'll be there sooner than you think.

brewha

09-17-2017, 06:29 AM

I can't seem to find the Russ Thompson trunk box for sale on their website or anywhere else. Can you tell me from where you purchased it?

Send Russ an email. He will send you the information on it. I got mine back a couple months ago. It's well worth it.

Mark Eaton

09-18-2017, 08:00 PM

Mark Eaton

09-18-2017, 08:08 PM

Everyone seems to agree that a stereo in these cars is something of a waste. I agree. You probably can't hear it well enough to justify its existance at 60mph. So what am I doing? Putting in a stereo of course!! I'm a music nut. What do you expect?!! I ordered up matching pairs of Polk Audio Marine speakers. After buying yet two more hole saws, 5" and 3.656", I cut the holes for the speakers. (No, I don't yet have every possible size, but I am really working on it!!)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65636&d=1490541632

6.5" for the rear wall:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65641&d=1490541635

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65635&d=1490541631

4" for the sides at near the floor:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65642&d=1490541636

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65640&d=1490541634

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65639&d=1490541633[/QUOTE]

Jazzman,

I am with you and also a music nut. Still playing in a Rock and Blues band at the age of 52! My question, what about a Subwoofer??

-Mark

wareaglescott

09-19-2017, 05:20 AM

Everyone seems to agree that a stereo in these cars is something of a waste. I agree. You probably can't hear it well enough to justify its existance at 60mph. So what am I doing? Putting in a stereo of course!! I'm a music nut. What do you expect?!! I ordered up matching pairs of Polk Audio Marine speakers. After buying yet two more hole saws, 5" and 3.656", I cut the holes for the speakers. (No, I don't yet have every possible size, but I am really working on it!!)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65636&d=1490541632

6.5" for the rear wall:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65641&d=1490541635

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65635&d=1490541631

4" for the sides at near the floor:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65642&d=1490541636

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65640&d=1490541634

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65639&d=1490541633

Jazzman,

I am with you and also a music nut. Still playing in a Rock and Blues band at the age of 52! My question, what about a Subwoofer??

-Mark[/QUOTE]

After I switched to the flow masters I have no problem hearing my blue tooth speaker playing music from my phone while it just sits in the passenger seat. I think all those "cant here the stereo" comments are overblown. With an actual radio and real speakers in the car you might be able to hear it just fine.

KDubU

09-19-2017, 06:12 AM

Jazzman

09-19-2017, 08:39 AM

About two weeks ago I ordered the battery box from FFMetal.com. I decided I wanted to utilize the wasted space above the differential but below the trunk floor. I cannot say enough nice things about FFMetal and the product. Great service and a great product! The piece fits perfectly. It is very solidly built and easy to install.

Jazzman,

This looks like a really slick battery box. I'm thinking I'll probably order one. And you don't think it will be difficult to access when everything is assembled?

Thanks,'

Mark

Hopefully the battery is not something that needs a lot of maintenance. By putting it the trunk, it keeps it out of the high heat engine area. Access to the top of the battery is easy, even with the body on. Getting the battery out, that's a bit more of a chore. It will come out, but it is a very tight fit. I hope I don't have to replace it for a very long time!! One mistake I did make along the way (any as you can tell from reading this thread, it is the only mistake thus far on this build!!! ;) is that I did not put in remote charging posts. Since the car sits for long periods of time during the build, you either need to disconnect the battery (a pain), turn off the master switch (not too bad) or hook up a trickle charger. I have a battery tender that i used to use on my motorcycle. It works great, just plug it in. But you have to have a place to plug it in. I put a plug in the battery box, but it is quite unhandy to get at. You have to unscrew the lid of the battery box and leave the trunk open. I wish now that I had put a battery tender plug somewhere much more convenient on the outside. Oh, well, live and learn. Next build!!

Jazzman

09-19-2017, 08:48 AM

Jazzman,

I am with you and also a music nut. Still playing in a Rock and Blues band at the age of 52! My question, what about a Subwoofer??

-Mark

After I switched to the flow masters I have no problem hearing my blue tooth speaker playing music from my phone while it just sits in the passenger seat. I think all those "cant here the stereo" comments are overblown. With an actual radio and real speakers in the car you might be able to hear it just fine.[/QUOTE]

I considered a sub woofer, but passed. I thought about putting a couple of small ones behind the seats. Yes, in the way my seats are installed, there is enough room, but just barely. I didn't do it, we shall see if I regret that decision. As a bass player, I love the low end, and I might find I regret not putting it in.

However, you have to get the stereo turned on before you can decide if you like it! Thus far I have had no luck getting the stereo to work. I am fighting the amplifier. I wanted a completely hidden system, Bluetooth to my phone only. I got an amp that supposedly would do that, but thus far I can't even get the thing to power up! I can't believe that one of the few things I actually have done before, the stereo, is causing me such frustration!! I built the car for Pete's sake!

I am 53, and would love to get back into a band situation, but one one without the ego's and drama of my previous experiences!! I am too old and wise for that nonsense. If it isn't fun, don't do it!!

Jazzman

09-19-2017, 08:52 AM

The other problem wih a radio is usually it has be turned up and being a roadster with no top, everyone else has to hear your music. I would much rather listen to the rumble of the pipes if a roadster pulled up beside me than a loud radio. Take the Harley riders who play their music so annoyingly loud, can't stand that.

I found that with the automatic volume adjustments now built into a stereo head, the loud music at the stoplight was significantly reduced. I did have a nice stereo on my harley. You could hear it OK, but it was certainly not "audiophile quality" at 60mph! I adjust the automatic volume control to it's maximum setting, and the volume would reduce very significantly at stoplights, turn up when moving. It worked. Of course I didn't have straight pipes on my Harley either!! I agree with you. The rumble of the pipes is nice music!!

Jazzman

09-23-2017, 05:56 PM

Are the last two weeks before your paint is done the worst? I saw the car yesterday. Guess what? It's grey. It's smooth. It's perfect in every way. It is all ready for paint. That should be done next week. Of course, I won't see it for a couple of weeks because I will be out of town. :( Oh well, I've waited this long. I am walking aimlessly around the shop looking for things to do. It's as clean as it's ever going to get. This morning I sorted 3/8" and 5/8" bolts and nuts. Then I decided to start "staging" the parts to be installed on the car when it gets here. I pulled out all the remaining parts. I tried to stage them in reverse order of need. (We will see how I did on that.) I found that I still have one big box of miscellaneous parts. These are new parts, or in some cases take offs, that I did not use, but being the semi-shop hoarder that I am, I just could not make myself throw them away. I really can't wait to get the car painted!!

The other night I brought out the Watson's Streetworks LED Headlights. I figured I would get them ready for installation. It has been a while since I bought them, so I went back to the Watson's Streetworks website to review the installation video.

https://www.watsons-streetworks.com/image/data/Headlights.wmv

It's pretty straight forward. I pulled out the light unit and discovered a very major design change:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74038&d=1506205924

Looks good, right. Ok. Can someone please explain to me how I get that green plug and the 1.5" long box through the hole in the headlight bucket that is only 1/2"?!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74039&d=1506205925

I thought perhaps I was losing my mind, but no, this time I was right. I called Watson's and discovered that there has been a major design change. In their installation video, they show the light unit with an in-line screw-together connection between the bulb unit and the power box. Disconnect this in-line fitting, slip on end through the hole in the bucket, reattach on the outside of the bucket. No problem. But the unit I received has no such disconnect unit installed. There is no way to cleanly get the wires to the outside of the bucket. Watson's tells me that their idea is to use a 2" hole saw to cut a gaping hole into the bucket! Oh yeah, that's a good idea. :mad: I asked them why the change was made. They said that the light fixtures are from a different supplier, and the one on the video is an older, lesser quality model. I suspect it was a cost cutting measure. Unfortunately it was a really short-sighted cost cutting measure. I'm stuck with them, and I am sure they will be great once hooked up, but I am disappointed that I can't keep that part of my build neat and clean. I have no idea how I will seal a 2" hole with one 1/4" thick wire coming through it. Really big grommet?

edwardb

09-23-2017, 07:44 PM

Jazzman

09-23-2017, 11:42 PM

Wow that's a bummer Watson's changed that part. For whatever reason. Thought about it a little. What about making a hole for the power controller instead of the bulb? That would require a rectangular hole vs. a round one and maybe a bit smaller. The hole could be on the flat on the back of the bucket (looks like it would fit) and then covered with a plate or even the power controller itself attached to the back of the bucket. The wire to the bulb would need to be in a slot accessible from the cutout, but that could work too. Mounted here like I showed in my build thread.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Electrical/th_IMG_4162_zpsjcex2iqy.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Electrical/IMG_4162_zpsjcex2iqy.jpg.html)

Thats not a bad idea at all. I like the idea of making the hole in the back of the bucket, then covering with the power controller box and mounting plate. I am not sure how to get the wire back through to the inside unless I just make a small second hole. I could use a 1/2" rubber plug to fill the original wire hole. I had thought about making a rectangular hole, but had thought about making it around the existing 1/2" hole. But your idea has real merit. I am going to noodle on that a bit. THanks!!!

AZPete

09-24-2017, 01:32 PM

Jazzman

09-25-2017, 10:27 AM

Kevin, I'm puzzled that you wrote, "I put a plug in the battery box, but it is quite unhandy to get at. You have to unscrew the lid of the battery box and leave the trunk open. I wish now that I had put a battery tender plug somewhere much more convenient on the outside." I'm puzzled because you've solved much tougher problems. On my Mk3 I spliced a longer BatteryTender lead with the ring terminal ends at the battery and the plug behind the passenger seat so I could easily connect the BatteryTender. You can extend your lead to anywhere convenient, rather than under the battery box lid. I did a similar install on my 818 and I suggest you make it impossible to forget, like looping the extension cord through the steering wheel so you'll remember before pulling out of the garage. Don't ask how I learned this.

I'm also waiting to admire your painted flip-top! If you need a second pair of hands with anything, just ask.
Pete

Thanks, Pete. You are right. I had the battery tender hooked up quickly while i was still building the car, and forgot to do a more permanent installation before I put the body on. I have several ideas, behind the seat is one of them. I still have a laundry list of stuff that I want to do even after I get the car back from paint. The big stuff may be done, but now all the little stuff has to get done.

valin

09-26-2017, 05:28 PM

Having spent very little time in prisons, and much more time around the San Diego Harbor, my perception of that color evokes a more positive connotation! Sadly, however, I think you are right! It really does look like a dreary "Prison Grey"! I didn't like the "Butter" much, but I think this dreary grey is worse. It will make the final product even more amazing!

I would love to go to SEMA, but sadly as a "Non-professional" they won't let me in. Diane and I came up last year for the final evening's event, and enjoyed it. I am trying to finagle some tickets, but so far, no joy. I'll be sure to connect with you if I find a way to get in. Enjoy the show in any event!

Thanks for the compliments. I am really hoping to have the car completed and titled by November 1. That may be a tall order, but I am going to try!! I am "staging" the parts for final installation now. Hopefully it will be a smooth final push to completion.

This may be a way for you to get in!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25924-BluePrint-Engines-Giving-away-2-VIP-Guest-Passes-to-SEMA-Show-Contest-thread

Jazzman

10-02-2017, 12:30 AM

Just in case you were wondering why you have not seen photos of the painted Flip-Top, it hasn't been painted quite yet. It was supposed to be done last week, but my very observant painter found a few items he just wasn't quite happy with. He had his team of bodywork experts go over the car again. He felt is was fully ready for paint on Friday, but he wanted to start on it fresh on Tuesday morning. (They are closed Monday.) I certainly want his "A" game, so I don't mind waiting a few more days. Even after he is done, I will have to wait a week for the paint to cure before they can do the color sanding and polishing. Wait, wait, wait!!!

In the meantime, I picked up my fully polished stainless steel roll bars. Wow, the polisher did an amazing job. You are gonna love the look, but you're just going to have to wait now. :cool:

Jazzman

10-06-2017, 03:22 PM

Artistry takes time. Anything worth doing is worth waiting for. Patience is a virtue.

Ok, enough with the platitude-fest! I am getting so itchy to get my car painted!! To quote a friend: "Show me some color!" I have driven down for the past to days, only to discover that it was still not painted. Yesterday they spent the entire day just taping and papering over all the sections that are not supposed to get paint. They even covered the underside of the car!! Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attention to detail, I want it done right, I continue to trust my painter. But I sure am getting excited to see it done! Here's what it looked like yesterday.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74789&d=1507320930

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74790&d=1507320930

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74791&d=1507320930

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74792&d=1507320930

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74794&d=1507320930

I am still holding out hope that today is the day!

Jazzman

10-06-2017, 03:27 PM

Jeff Kleiner

10-06-2017, 03:49 PM

They are spraying it on the chassis?

Jeff

Jazzman

10-06-2017, 04:00 PM

They are spraying it on the chassis?

Jeff

Yep. I was surprised too, but he seems quite confident that this is the best and safest way to make the color match on my car. It may have something to do with the flip top and the inherent movement and flex you get in this setup. I am not sure. You know more about Candy jobs and fibreglass than I will ever know. EdwardB's painter did the same thing, and his car clearly came out great! My painter tried to explain it to me, something about fibreglass moving and changing shape or something. I probably have it wrong. Long story short, yes, they are spraying it while the body is attached to the frame. But they sure are being meticulous about keeping the paint off of absolutely everything else! I am pleased!

wareaglescott

10-06-2017, 06:06 PM

Kevin in relation to the ceramic coating I have had numerous discussions with installers about the film or ceramic coating for my P car I ordered. At this point they are still primarily doing the clear films for best results. The ceramic coatings need to be reapplied after a few years. Of course the films will also last for only a limited time as well. 5-10 years on the films is what they tell me. The problem I came across with the Cobra in relation to getting film installed is apparently the shape of the nose is extremely tricky to get it to lay down properly. I am going with film when my car arrives from the factory at a cost of about $2000. For production car models the film manufacturers make custom cut kits for specific models. For something like the Cobra you would not be able to go that route and finding someone that does a custom film job would be tricky. I asked a couple guys in Atlanta that do all the Porsche, Lambo and Ferraris and they had no interest in doing the Cobra. I think the ceramic coating is quite a good option if you are interested in additional protection and I have read positive reviews on those as well although I cant speak for a specific brand.
Personally I bought some Xpel film on Amazon and cut some pieces for the rear wheel fronts and put some pieces on the bottom of the nose around the oil cooler opening. At 2500 miles my nose looks brand new still and is mostly unprotected. The area in front of the rear wheels definitely needs some protection. It does take a beating.
One thing to consider is how the Cobras are normally driven/ garaged and not exposed to much if any weather vs a normal daily driver. Whatever protection you are interested in you can kind of exclude the damaging effects of sun and weather. Road debris should really be your main concern so just decide what gives you the best protection from that.

edwardb

10-06-2017, 10:41 PM

Yep. I was surprised too, but he seems quite confident that this is the best and safest way to make the color match on my car. It may have something to do with the flip top and the inherent movement and flex you get in this setup. I am not sure. You know more about Candy jobs and fibreglass than I will ever know. EdwardB's painter did the same thing, and his car clearly came out great! My painter tried to explain it to me, something about fibreglass moving and changing shape or something. I probably have it wrong. Long story short, yes, they are spraying it while the body is attached to the frame. But they sure are being meticulous about keeping the paint off of absolutely everything else! I am pleased!

Yes, my #8674 Anniversary Roadster was painted "body on" for mainly the same reasons you mention from your painter. My painter too was meticulous to keep everything masked, including the bottom of the chassis, and they did a great job. Just a hint though. The challenge with this approach for clean-up isn't paint or dust. It's the messy slurry that results from the cut & buff process. Even being careful, it goes everywhere. Through the slots for the windshield, holes for the roll bar, holes for the lights, louvers, around the wheel openings, etc. I cleaned it as best I could and touched up with some more undercoat where it still showed. Not a big deal and certainly doesn't take away from the overall build. But just something to be aware of. It was a bit of a surprise to me.

KDubU

10-07-2017, 05:53 AM

Paint???

Jeff Kleiner

10-08-2017, 08:33 AM

Yesterday when I was at the paint shop, the owner/painter asked me if I had heard anything about "ceramic coating on paint". I had not. He is still researching it. Apparently it is very new technology. Instead of applying the wrap-type clear plastic "bra" material to protect the paint, this product claims to provide "guaranteed chip protection" when applied directly to the paint/clearcoat. From what I can read, it seems like it is a sort of thick, very hard, clearcoat type material that is somewhat sacrificial in nature. They claim it is very, very, strong and resilient to chips and scratches. Has anyone used this product, or know anyone who has?

You might find this interesting. Although he is affiluated with a European wax manufacturer so there is a certain amount of bias the short presentation is rather balanced in touching on the both the + and - of ceramic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93MmQhNwqxk&feature=youtu.be

Jeff

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 10:10 AM

You might find this interesting. Although he is affiluated with a European wax manufacturer so there is a certain amount of bias the short presentation is rather balanced in touching on the both the + and - of ceramic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93MmQhNwqxk&feature=youtu.be

Jeff

This is a very good video, and the one that followed it is also helpful. Since the car is newly painted, and will not ever be stored outside, I am not as worried about dirt and bird droppings. My primary concern is rock chips, and for this, it looks like the clear bra material is the only real solution. It truly protects the paint, but can be peeled off and replaced when necessary. Thanks for the video, Jeff!!

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 10:21 AM

I went to the paint shop on Friday afternoon, and progress had indeed been made. My painter started painting at 7am that day, and when I arrived he told me he had already laid 15 coats of paint! He told me he had sent me photos of each coat as he laid it on. For some reason, my new Galaxy S8 doesn't seems to want to receive photos from his phone. I have no idea why. I get photos from other people. Perhaps my phone knows how eager I am to get updates, and is trying to teach me patience. (It's not working!!) So this morning, I found that my trusty old iPad actually had gotten all the photos! So here we go. Keep in mind that this is one photo per coat of paint.

Black Base Coat, Coat #1

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75046&d=1507561414

Coat #2

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75047&d=1507561414

Coat #3

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75048&d=1507561414

Coat #4

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75049&d=1507561415

Silver Base Coat, Coat #5

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75054&d=1507561417

Coat #6

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75055&d=1507561417

Coat #7

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75056&d=1507561417

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 10:28 AM

Silver Base Coat #8

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75057&d=1507561418

Coat #9

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75058&d=1507561418

Coat #10

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75059&d=1507561419

Coat #11

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75060&d=1507561419

Coat #12

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75061&d=1507561420

Silver Coat #13, the last Base coat!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75062&d=1507561421

Now at this point, the painter and all his employees seriously considered just stopping and clearcoating the silver! They loved the look of the silver on there, and I agree. It is amazing. But that was not what I wanted, so they moved on to the candy coats . . .

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 10:46 AM

When I arrived on Friday, the painter had completed two coats of candy and was letting it "flash". Though he normally does not let anyone see his work in progress, he invited me in to see the car in partial metamorphasis.

This two photos are both after two coats of Candy Burgundy:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75065&d=1507562911

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75066&d=1507562912

After 6 coats (I think), here is the last photos that I received on Friday:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75052&d=1507561416

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75053&d=1507561416

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75050&d=1507561415

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75051&d=1507561415

I am not sure if this is "done" or not. I know it will get 8 coats of clear on top of this candy color, and he wanted to wait about three days to let the paint cure before applying the clear. I don't know if he plans to apply more coats of candy before he applies the clear. I am checking with him on that now.

***UPDATE*** Just confirmed that this is not the final color yet. The painter ran out of Burgundy on Friday, and came in today on his day off to put on the last coats of Candy. More photos to follow. (soon I hope!!)

WarEagleScott asked "why all the coats"? Honestly, I have no idea, but I trust my painter. His work speaks for itself. (He has painted two Riddler award "Great Eight" winners, and has previously and is currently doing many exceptionally high end builds for collectors and sports stars.) I wonder if it may have something to do with the candy process, but I really don't know. So far as I know, thus far he has laid the following on the car:

2 Gallons of Base Coat, one Black, one Silver
1 Gallon of Candy Burgundy
3 Gallons of Reducer (to make the paint flow through the spray gun).

2bking

10-09-2017, 10:59 AM

Wow! some nice color and a paint job you'll be proud of each time the sun makes it sparkle. I can feel the goose bumps.

Straversi

10-09-2017, 11:04 AM

Usually when someone posts paint photos I have to rethink my paint ideas but you threw a curve with silver and candy to consider. Thanks... Looks great.
-Steve

Jeff Kleiner

10-09-2017, 11:07 AM

Exciting news for you Kevin! Curious, do you know what brand of products he's using?

Jeff

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 11:31 AM

Usually when someone posts paint photos I have to rethink my paint ideas but you threw a curve with silver and candy to consider. Thanks... Looks great.
-Steve

The silver was stunning, I have to admit. I am glad they continued, but the silver is really worth considering.

David Hodgkins

10-09-2017, 01:06 PM

Kevin, that's an amazing color. Can't wait to see it polished; It'll be stunning!

:)

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 01:15 PM

Exciting news for you Kevin! Curious, do you know what brand of products he's using?

Jeff

It is House of Kolor Burgundy.

Jazzman

10-09-2017, 01:18 PM

Kevin, that's an amazing color. Can't wait to see it polished; It'll be stunning!

:)

Thanks, David! And it isn't even done yet. I just texted with my painter, and he ran out of Burgundy on Friday and came in this morning on his day off to put on the last coats of candy! He is truly amazing!! He is really going above and beyond for me!

Jazzman

10-10-2017, 01:01 AM

At 8:35pm tonight I received the following message and photos: "I just finished. Heading home now. Come see me am to check it out." Matt Myers, the owner and master painter of Kandy Shoppe Creations, had spent his entire day off working on my car! Wow!! Here is the final color. I am not sure if he did the clear coats yet, and I don't know how many coats of candy burgundy he ultimately laid on. (I will ask tomorrow!) Needless to say, I am thrilled with how it turned out!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75128&d=1507614257

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75132&d=1507614259

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75130&d=1507614258

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75131&d=1507614258

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75129&d=1507614257

networkcrasher

10-10-2017, 02:23 AM

Damn!

KDubU

10-10-2017, 09:13 AM

Wow!

AZPete

10-10-2017, 10:08 AM

Wow X2

Jazzman

10-10-2017, 04:58 PM

I love working with a true artist. Matt and I have spent the past six months talking about what we wanted the car to look like. I have always felt that Matt has a unique and clear vision into my mind about this car. We really seems to be on the same page. About four months ago he sprayed a number of 4"x8" aluminum panels to narrow down the color that we were going for. After a lot of discussion and consideration, we landed on a very deep red burgundy color. It is very deep red/purple in the absence of direct sunlight, but pops bright red when the sun hits it. I have been looking at that panel for four month trying to envision the entire car in that color. Last night when I got the photos of the completed car, I was entirely thrilled with what I saw. It did not, however, look much like the spray out panel that I have been looking at for months. I attributed that to the difficulties of capturing a look on film, to the lighting inside the spray booth, etc. But I loved what I saw, make no mistake.

Today I went down to see the car in person. Matt met me as I walked up, and I thanked him for coming in on his day off to do it. He said that it was all on him because he . . . had decided to completely start over painting the car!! After laying on the candy on Friday, he had been thinking about the end product, and he wasn't happy with it. We had talked many times about the fact that I want the car to have an inner glow, much like that deep red glow when a light hits a glass of fine red wine. He didn't feel that this glow was happening for him. He laid on several more candy coats, and became less and less happy with the result. The color on the spray-out panel looks great, but when you spread that color over the entire body of the car, it was just too purple. It matched the spray-out test panel, but it lacked the vibrancy that we wanted. He decided his only option was to completely start over. He re-sanded the entire car to make sure the new paint would adhere well. He laid on four more coats of silver base. He then custom mixed a red candy color just for my car. It started with the Burgundy candy, but then added red and other colors to create my own custom "Jazzman's Kandy Shoppe Red Confection". After laying on many coats of this "Confection" he was finally happy with the result. So am I. I didn't get what I expected. I got more than I expected!

He hopes to lay on at least eight coats of clear today or early tomorrow. By Thursday the car should be back on it's wheels, basking in the Arizona sun! I can't wait to see it!!

David Hodgkins

10-10-2017, 05:32 PM

Jeff Kleiner

10-10-2017, 06:08 PM

8 :eek:

Jeff

CalR80

10-10-2017, 06:34 PM

Holy smokes Kevin....that is amazing. I can't believe that he started over as it is looking beautiful! I guess you gotta let the artist do his thing, knowing the end result is gonna knock you socks off.

Dave

Jazzman

10-10-2017, 06:49 PM

You are right! You have to trust your painter. I do. The photos in post #821 are exactly as it sits now after he fully painted the car twice. My son went with me today, and we both agree that the color he finished with is much better than the spray-out sample that we started with. Matt quickly offered to completely paint the car a third time if I didn't like the current result. He also made it very clear that I wouldn't be paying for the additional hours of work or the additional materials to do this second color, and I wouldn't be paying for hours or materials if I told him to change the car from where it is at now to match the spray-out that I have. He loves the car and wants it done "right". He wants me to get exactly what I want. He loves the current color. I agree. I think it is amazing. I just can't wait to see it in the sun!

Mark Eaton

10-10-2017, 11:28 PM

That is impressive

Boydster

10-11-2017, 02:47 AM

Stunning. This car is going to be amazing.

Jazzman

10-11-2017, 09:54 PM

I went to see the finished product today. The clear coat is on and . . . it is simply stunning! I am speechless! (Ok, you know me by now, I am never really speechless. :rolleyes:) Keep in mind it has not been color sanded, buffed. or polished. It is so very difficult to capture the nuances in the color in a photograph. The color is rich and deep, it fades to a deep rich red in the shadows, and has blazing highlights in sunshine.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75219&d=1507775912

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75220&d=1507775913

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75223&d=1507775915

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75224&d=1507775915

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75217&d=1507775911

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75222&d=1507775914

If I could extract the color in my mind and put it on the car, that is it! It is absolutely perfect.

Ducky2009

10-11-2017, 10:01 PM

edwardb

10-12-2017, 07:01 AM

Looks great! Surprisingly similar to the Ford Red Candy on my Anniversary build. You're going to love the final product. Especially when the sun is shining like these pics. It's very rare that people don't comment about the great color when I have my car at shows and cruise-in's. Congrats.

2bking

10-28-2017, 01:10 AM

We need an update, I know something has to have been done since the last one

WIS89

10-28-2017, 04:31 PM

Kevin-

I am a little late to the party, but I need to comment on the beautiful color! You must be overjoyed at how it turned out!

I am so happy for you, and happy to see how great your car looks.

I look forward to seeing more pictures!

Regards,

Steve

Jazzman

10-28-2017, 11:06 PM

Well the current delivery date is now next friday. Time will tell. They began taping the car up to be cut, buffed, and polished on Tuesday. Wednesday and Thursday, they spent all day cutting and buffing. They used sandpaper up to either 1500 or 2000 grit, (I can't remember which), then began buffing with some grade of compound. I went by yesterday to see it. It has two more (I think) buffing levels to go, then the polishing stage. That was being done yesterday, and will continue on Tuesday. My painter is delivering a car to SEMA next week in Vegas, so once again he planned to work on his days off to get my car done. The remaining items to be candied are:
1. The interiors of the doors and trunk
2. He is going to re-candy the interior of the hood because he changed color. (no cost to me.)
3. Two sets of engine covers. One for "everyday" use which will be pretty basic, the second for "Show" use which will be somewhat more intricate.
4. The Factory Five round sign I ordered.

He said he would do everything he could to get it all painted today so that it can all be delivered to me next Friday. It will be wonderful if it is finally done. But the art is worth the wait. If it takes until the next week, the world won't come to an end!! Here's a little tease of how it looked yesterday:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76038&d=1509249683

When they get this thing completely polished, it's going to have all the clarity of the Hubble telescope! You already can see a perfect reflection in the paint. Amazing!!

wareaglescott

10-29-2017, 06:53 AM

Wow a backup engine cover. You are going all out! Latest picture looks great. Cant wait to see it next week!

GoDadGo

10-29-2017, 06:59 AM

Well Done Jazzman, Well Done!

Jazzman

10-29-2017, 09:40 AM

Wow a backup engine cover. You are going all out! Latest picture looks great. Cant wait to see it next week!

Because of the heat generated sitting right on the engine, there is a concern that the paint on the engine covers might fade over time. I also liked both the older style cover and the newer one. The new one will be the "daily use" set, and the older one, the "Show" set. I feel like the curved lines of the older style cover generally look better.

Yama-Bro

10-30-2017, 12:37 PM

Gorgeous color!

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 12:08 AM

Were you working Friday night at 10pm? I wasn't, though I did work until about 7:30. I had been told that my car would be delivered back to me Friday evening. Matt at the Kandy Shoppe had made special arrangements to have my car transported for me by the person he most trusts for the task. Unfortunately, this person already had a full slate of deliveries that day. However, true to his word, the truck rolled up at 9:30pm to deliver my car back to me! :) It had taken seven months to get the perfect paint job, but it was worth the wait! To be fair, one month of that was me putting the car together after the first phase of body work was done. I am absolutely thrilled with the result.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76664&d=1510546898

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76660&d=1510546896

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76663&d=1510546898

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76658&d=1510546895

The car had be driven on Friday morning, so I was perplexed when it would not start for me on saturday morning. While I feel somewhat foolish for the following story, I am actually pretty please that I know my car well enough to have figured out the issue. I have two electronic keyfobs that allow the car to start. One has been on my keyring for months, the other was with the car at the painters shop. The shop returned the "2nd" Keyfob to me when they returned the car. I put it away for safekeeping. When I went to start the car Saturday morning, the lights and gauges would come on, but absolutely nothing else would happen. No fuel pump sound, no engine turnover, nothing. After a few minutes of checking power switches and full pump security lockouts, I figured that if the car had run Friday with the "2nd" fob, and not on Saturday with the "1st" fob, the place to start is get the 2nd Fob!. Partial success: The engine would turn over, but there was no fuel pump sound and no fuel pressure. More searching, thinking and looking at schematics. I decided to check the fuel pump fuse to see if it was blown. I checked the RF wiring harness fuse panel. No, idiot, there is no fuel pump fuse on that panel because you have a Coyote engine. The Coyote PDB has all the engine control fuses. I found the fuel pump fuse, removed it, and . . . it was blown!! Yeah, I had figured it out. Blown fuse. That i know how to fix. I headed out to my local parts place (I wont mention them here, because I really hate going there!!) and bought the only two fuses of that size that they had. Why two you ask? Experience!! I wanted to have a backup in case the first one blew while I was driving somewhere. I took them home, put in the new fuse, turned the ignition and . . . still no fuel! Silencio! I checked the new fuse. It too is blown. Now I feel both smart for having bought a second fuse and stupid for having blown now two of them! Now what else could be causing this? A dead short in a power or ground wire. But where? What possibly has changed since the car was driven the day before? I had put on the side louvers, bolted on the hood scoop, installed the fuel cap assembly. None of them anywhere near any wiring. I had installed the windshield, and begun moving on to installing the roll bars . . . Wait . . . I installed the windshield . . . that is near the rollover switch . . . could that switch have been tripped? Nope, it is fine. But the windshield is near an awful lot of wires in the top of the DS footbox. Now I feel smart again because the top of the DS footbox can be removed for servicing. I removed the top again, and . . .

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76659&d=1510546896

the lower DS windshield bolt had tightened down on top of the power wire feeding the rollover switch which ultimately feeds power to the fuel pump. I loosened the bolt and moved the wire. I put in the one remaining fuse. The car fired right up! I checked the wire for damage. It was somewhat crushed, but did not appear to have had the insulation cut. I wrapped it in convolute tubing and then taped it up. It works just fine now.

It is so very satisfying to know that I have learned so much and know my car so well that I was able to figure out this minor problem. Ok, it's not a very major issue in the grand scheme of all the systems in a car, but for me, this is real confirmation that I have achieved one of my goals: I have learned about how my car works! I have many of you to thank for this education!!

rrrose

11-13-2017, 12:25 AM

She is just stunning. WOW

wareaglescott

11-13-2017, 06:42 AM

Looks great. Glad you got that sorted out. I texted yesterday and when I dint hear back I figured you must have been out working on it.
Car looks awesome out in the sun. Post a pic of the flip top open when you get a chance.

What is left on the list after the roll bars and front lights? Did you ever get your radio/amp issue worked out?

Vette1972

11-13-2017, 06:47 AM

Really super job on the car! The color is just great. Yep, let's see the flip top!
Congrats!

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 10:05 AM

What is left on the list after the roll bars and front lights? Did you ever get your radio/amp issue worked out?

Not much. My goal is to get it licensed ASAP, so all work pushes in that direction. Here's the short list.

1. Headlights and front turn signals
2. Roll bars with integrated brake lights.
3. install the Passengers seat
4. do the license plate mod to fit the plate up into the bracket
5. install the windwings, visors
6. install the center rear view mirror.
7. find out if I have to have side mirrors before I license the car. I plan to have them, but have not yet decided how/what I will install. I really don't want to drill a hole in that paint, and haven't yet decided what I want to attach to the windshield frams.
8. Figure out why the turn signals don't currently flash
9. Get a different flasher module for the emergency flashers

I'm still making the list, but I think with those items done, I can get it licensed. The amp issue is not yet fixed, but I am ignoring it until after the car is licensed. Am I forgetting anything? Is there anything that I need to look out for in the license process?

CalR80

11-13-2017, 12:08 PM

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 12:51 PM

Absolutely beautiful Kevin, congrats! For the sideview mirrors, I also was not keen on the idea of drilling into the freshly painted body so I went with the Breeze one and am very happy with it. http://breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=758

Funny that you should mention those. I was literally leaving Mark Reynolds a message about them when I noticed your post. I really like the look, and I was beginning to wonder how I would throw more money at this car! Thanks for helping!! :)

David Hodgkins

11-13-2017, 01:56 PM

Kevin,

Your ride is so beautiful I can't stand it. I may have to ban you just to keep the rest of the group from feeling inadequate!

Really man, it's a stunning ride. Major kudos!!

:)

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 02:49 PM

Kevin,

Your ride is so beautiful I can't stand it. I may have to ban you just to keep the rest of the group from feeling inadequate!

Really man, it's a stunning ride. Major kudos!!

:)

You are so kind and generous!! I am really pleased with the result. Please know that your attention to detail and commitment to quality was one of my major inspirations!

David Hodgkins

11-13-2017, 04:03 PM

You are so kind and generous!! I am really pleased with the result. Please know that your attention to detail and commitment to quality was one of my major inspirations!

Thanks brother. Any chance you might bring it to HB next year?

:)

wareaglescott

11-13-2017, 04:06 PM

Straversi

11-13-2017, 04:11 PM

Nice job working out the pinched wire. These cars will let you feel proud of your accomplishments for a moment and then make you feel stupid in an instant.

I'll wait for the finished photos to shower you with compliments.... but, Damn....
-Steve

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 04:37 PM

Thanks brother. Any chance you might bring it to HB next year?

:)

Not a chance . . . an absolute lock guarantee I will be there!! I will not let rain, nor sleet, nor kidney stones will keep me from that party! Put me down for a parking space for my truck and trailer! I have looked forward to this event for three years. I can't wait!!

Jazzman

11-13-2017, 04:40 PM

Kevin I have those Breeze mirrors also. I am quite pleased with the rear visibility they offer and the look. Another recommendation for those.
Funny thing is I regularly hit the drivers side with my knee when I am getting out of the car and have to adjust it. Never thought I would own a car that hitting the mirror with my knee on exit would be an issue! haha

Spoke to Mark about an hour ago. He will send them out as soon as they are made. They are being milled right now. He hopes that they can go out by Thursday. I hope so too! I can't get this thing registered without them.

AZPete

11-13-2017, 06:55 PM

I'm with David for having you banned from Huntington Beach! Or, at least I don't want to park next to the gorgeous red flip-top!

David Hodgkins

11-13-2017, 07:03 PM

I'm with David for having you banned from Huntington Beach! Or, at least I don't want to park next to the gorgeous red flip-top!

All kidding aside I think we know who the front runner for Best Roadster is!

:)

Big Blocker

11-14-2017, 01:28 PM

Dave, he's already got my vote . . . I really want to see this car up close and personal. What an AWESOME example of craftsmanship and attention to detail. Jazzman, you da man . . . !

See ya next year at the "Pre-HB BBQ and HB.

Doc

sbhunter

11-14-2017, 01:54 PM

Beautiful car. I love that color. I’m starting in on your thread. Detail is amazing. Thank you for taking the time to post in detail for those of us just starting.

Jazzman

11-16-2017, 06:15 PM

Thank you Mark Reynolds of Breeze Automotive. I ordered a pair of his billet mirrors on monday. He knows I am trying to get the Roadster done and registered. He told me that the mirrors were being manufactured right now, but he would do his best to get them to me as soon as he could. They just arrived, and look fabulous! I can't wait to get out of the office and install them!!! Thank you Mark for your incredible service.

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 12:44 AM

Rather Productive couple of days. Began with the license plate. Did the full Jeff Kleiner License Plate mod (Thank you Jeff!!) but still needed to get a bit more space. Decided to notch the plate at the top as well as the bottom. Also decided not to do the full plate mod and install until I actually license the car. I am not sure how understanding Arizona might be on such things. I didn't put the LED light bulbs in. Forgot to order them. That is easy to do later.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76846&d=1511069412

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76847&d=1511069412

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76848&d=1511069413

Intalled Breeze's side mirrors. Easy Peasy!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76859&d=1511069418

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76858&d=1511069417

Installed the center mirror on the top of the windshield. I found I had to jam a piece of bailing wire inside the slot to lock the nut in place while the screws were tightened.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76849&d=1511069413

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76860&d=1511069418

Installed the sun visors per FFR's instructions. The checklist is getting shorter.

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 12:55 AM

Headlights are next. I am using the Watson's streetworks LED headlights. Great lights, excellent illumination. There is one serious challenge: The light bulb power cord has a permanently attached box that doesn't fit through the 5/8" hole in the headlight bucket. I considered a number of options for how and where to get the box through the bucket, and decided to cut a slot directly forward on the bucket from the hole. I left the flap attached at the front of the bucket, then pushed the box through the hole, closed the flap and secured it with very heavy tape and the rubber grommet that protects the wire from the edge of the hole.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76850&d=1511069414

Next I took a page out of the great EdwardB's book of tricks. I made mounting plates to attach to the outside back of the bucket that would then have the power box attached. The three holes in the center in a triangle pattern are the holes i used to rivet the plate to the back of the bucked. (Probably overkill, but it's secure!) The two outside holes are to attach the little black box.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76851&d=1511069414

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76852&d=1511069415

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76853&d=1511069415

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 01:36 AM

Roll bars are next. Actually only the DS bar thus far. This was a real chore. Put the bar on, then discovered that the gaskets that came with the trim rings have an opening that is way too big. I think they must have been designed for the old 2" roll bars. Here's the result:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76854&d=1511069415

I went looking for gasket material, but Ace didn't have it. I found something that I made work at Home Depot. If you have ever installed a new shower pan, you may have used a thick rubber gasket material to protect your floor and walls from leakage. This stuff is grey, and I was initally concerned that it wasn't black, but it really came out OK. You see very little of it anyway. I started by cutting out the exterior shape using the trim rings as a template. Then I used a smaller washer to cut out a smaller inside hole.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76855&d=1511069416

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76856&d=1511069416

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76857&d=1511069417

On the oval shaped rear leg trim rings, I had to trim the new gasket a couple of times, creating a somewhat off center oval hole. A bit of final triming, and they all fit very nicely.

Before I installed the roll bar for the final time, I installed the LED lights that were milled into the top of the bar. I won't go into how it is done, but it is not hard, but somewhat tricky. Long story short, I got it done. After the bar was installed, I wired in the connecting wires into the taillight wiring. The result is . . . extremely cool!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76862&d=1511069419

I installed the rear inner panel that acts as a mud flap. It took a bit of finagling to get it in the right place, but it's solid now. It really stabilizes the lower rear of the body behind the rear wheel very nicely. After checking over all the bolts I could see and reach, I put the rear wheel back on.

Before installing the rear wheel, I put the spinner in from the back side, and it tightened up very nicely. I was pretty proud of my self! Pride, however, always comes before a fall. I took the front wheel off to install the spinner while the DS of the car was in the air. When I opened the box for the second spinner, I discovered that there are cover pieces to cover the actual lug nuts to make it look like these are real knockoffs. All four of them were in one box! Opps! I didn't install the cover on the rear wheel. Oh well, I shouldn't be hard to take off the spinner and install the little cover right? I checked everything on the front suspension, and then put the front wheel back on.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76861&d=1511069419

Back to the rear wheel. I loosened the small set screw that allows the Spinner to turn on the threads of the mounding unit. I turned the spinner (Clockwise because the Left side spinners are reverse threaded) and . . . the center boss just spins with the spinner. I can't seem to get this off. I can get the rear wheel off without removing the spinner, but now I am worried about whether I can get the front wheel off. The nuts are now covered. I haven't tried it yet. That's a "tomorrow" project. I had seen several builders installing set screws in the wheels, but when I saw the setscrew already in the spinner, I assumed that FFR had fixed this problem. Well we all know what happens when you assume . . .

I'm tired. Its been a productive day. I'm going to bed!

2bking

11-19-2017, 03:53 AM

Installed the center mirror on the top of the windshield. I found I had to jam a piece of bailing wire inside the slot to lock the nut in place while the screws were tightened.

Bailing wire? I guess it does have a Ford heritage :o

You're going to have a nice ride. And maybe add a little antiseize compound to those spinners if you ever want to get them off later. I didn't use the set screws there for fear of distorting the threads thus preventing them from freely turning as they unscrew.

wareaglescott

11-19-2017, 07:17 AM

KDubU

11-19-2017, 08:10 AM

Looks awesome! Can't wait to see the final grad pics.

edwardb

11-19-2017, 08:26 AM

Great progress. You're getting there! I recall from earlier in your build thread that you're using the Breeze 1-3/4 inch roll bars, right? Russ Thompson is the only source I know of for roll bar trim rings specifically made for that size. Is that what you have? I use his on #7750, and the gaskets he provided fit OK. I've found putting a small notch in the top of the license plate is required even with the mod. It's completely hidden when the plate is installed, so I can't imagine your local LE would have an issue with that. With the mod and the notch at the top, I haven't found it necessary to notch the bottom of the license plate around the trunk handle. Just fits. As 2bking said, put some anti-seize on those spinners, as a minimum. Unfortunately, they sometimes still get jammed up on the adapters. Some guys glue in the adapters (silicone, etc.) or resort to more positive measures like set screws through the wheels. That's what I've done. The set screw in the spinner is only intended to keep the spinner from coming off. If installed the right direction it's pretty unlikely they'll come off if properly tightened. The right hand thread goes on the left side of the car, and the left hand thread goes on the right side of the car. When you go to tighten the spinner, the top should turn towards the back of the car (drivers side clockwise, passenger side counter clockwise). I leave the spinner set screw in, but tighten in very lightly. Not enough to damage the threads. It could just as easily be left out as some recommend.

Jeff Kleiner

11-19-2017, 08:38 AM

RoadRacer

11-19-2017, 09:00 AM

If installed the right direction it's pretty unlikely they'll come off if properly tightened. The right hand thread goes on the left side of the car, and the left hand thread goes on the right side of the car.

Don't do it wrong! I was racing around Goodwood in UK 25 years ago and had a wheel come off under braking, that took off at 60mph across the infield, over the track and leaped the fence. Turns out the tyre guys who just balanced put all the wheels (that had spinner adapters) on wrong side. :D

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 09:17 AM

Glad to see the progress Kevin. Looking great. Those brake likes in the roll bar are really cool.

Good work on the roll bar gasket trim ring gasket. Just a thought - Is it possible they sent you the wrong trim ring and not the wrong gasket? Do they possibly make a trim ring that hugs the bar diameter tighter? Maybe if they do those would come with the proper gaskets as well.

You know, that is possible I guess, but since they are already in, the holes are all drilled, I guess I will stay with them as they are. I don't remember having an alternative, but for those that decide to use these in the future, it might be worth asking.

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 09:32 AM

Coming along nicely Kevin!

RE: Spinners; I drill and tap for one 8-32 setscrew per wheel. After inserting the center snug the setscrew against it and it will prevent it from moving while installing/removing the lug cover and spinner.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76864&d=1511098575

I use a bit of anti-seize on the threads and ditch the spinner setscrews for exactly the reason King mentioned---thread distortion that can make them difficult to remove. No worries about them coming loose; with the LH/RH threads they tighten with forward motion..........oh wait, maybe I should take that back..........if you do a lot of reversing at high speeds they could come loose............do you plan to regularly exceed 60 MPH backing out of your driveway?.........if not you should be OK ;)

Cheers,
Jeff

Yes, not using the installed set screw in the spinner so as not to damage the threads is extremely good counsel. Too bad I didn't think of it before I tightened that set screw. Any suggestions on how to hold the center in place now that the threads are likely damaged? I am can't get the spinner off, and can't tighten it either. I hope you recognize by now that I am a big FFR fan, but this is a pretty big oversight. Why did they put a set screw in the spinner if a) it wasn't really needed and b) it damages the threads to the point that you can't get the spinner off?!!! I really don't know how I will get the spinners off now. I have a couple of ideas, but they are pretty drastic, involving holes in the center pieces and bolts to hold them in place while I get the spinners off. I hope I don't have to go there. Wish me luck and send ideas if you've got them. Thanks!!

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 09:37 AM

The right hand thread goes on the left side of the car, and the left hand thread goes on the right side of the car. When you go to tighten the spinner, the top should turn towards the back of the car (drivers side clockwise, passenger side counter clockwise). I leave the spinner set screw in, but tighten in very lightly. Not enough to damage the threads. It could just as easily be left out as some recommend.

I just want to make sure I have this right because I think I even have the wrong set of spinners on the DS. The right hand threads (the normal ones from my perspective) go on the DS of the car, and the left hand threads (the "wrong" way threads) go on the PS. Do I have this right? If I do, I do indeed have the wrong spinners on the DS. Silly me, I followed the instruction on the box that said "Left". :mad:

wareaglescott

11-19-2017, 10:42 AM

Dont even need to think of it so much as left and right. Just make sure when you are tightening you are rotating them towards the rear of the vehicle.
I initially tightened my set screws in my spinners down hard because I did not know any better either. When I took them off there was no thread damage. Hopefully yours will not be damaged and you can get the wheel off easy!

Funny on this project how seemingly simple tasks can become such a pain and things you were dreading for their complexity work out quite easily sometimes!

edwardb

11-19-2017, 11:19 AM

Yes, not using the installed set screw in the spinner so as not to damage the threads is extremely good counsel. Too bad I didn't think of it before I tightened that set screw. Any suggestions on how to hold the center in place now that the threads are likely damaged? I am can't get the spinner off, and can't tighten it either. I hope you recognize by now that I am a big FFR fan, but this is a pretty big oversight. Why did they put a set screw in the spinner if a) it wasn't really needed and b) it damages the threads to the point that you can't get the spinner off?!!! I really don't know how I will get the spinners off now. I have a couple of ideas, but they are pretty drastic, involving holes in the center pieces and bolts to hold them in place while I get the spinners off. I hope I don't have to go there. Wish me luck and send ideas if you've got them. Thanks!!

Of course it's possible, but I really doubt you damaged the threads with the set screws enough to cause the problem you're having with them coming off. If left dry (sounds like what you did) they unfortunately gall and seize pretty easily. Even then I've found the can be a pretty tight fit, e.g. not very precise. Leave the set screws out if you like. Or if you use them just slightly snug them. At that point, perhaps they aren't really doing anything. But I don't like leaving them off. That's just me. Here are a couple threads where guys talked about getting them off once stuck. There are more. Good luck!

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/568754-wheel-spinner-nut-stuck.html

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/399905-spinners-stuck-hub.html

I just want to make sure I have this right because I think I even have the wrong set of spinners on the DS. The right hand threads (the normal ones from my perspective) go on the DS of the car, and the left hand threads (the "wrong" way threads) go on the PS. Do I have this right? If I do, I do indeed have the wrong spinners on the DS. Silly me, I followed the instruction on the box that said "Left". :mad:

The "left" designation on the box is that they have left hand threads (vs. "normal" right hand threads). But they go on the right hand side. Yea, confusing I guess...

Jazzman

11-19-2017, 11:59 PM

Slow, semi productive day today. I found that the front spinner came off with no drama. I took off the wheel, removed the threaded mounting cup, and put the front wheel back on. the threads are a bit deformed, but not enough to cause problems. I used a fine file to clean up the bent threads. I will deal with that spinner problem later.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76887&d=1511152053

My luck did not continue. The rear spinner would not come loose. Because I did not have the lug nut trip piece installed, I was able to reach the lug nuts and take off the rear wheel. This gave me access to both sides of the spinner. I tried jamming a screwdriver in from the back to lock the threaded mounting lug in place. No dice, I just spun around with the spinner. One of EdwardB's suggestions was to put ice on the inside of the threaded cup to get it good and cold, then heat the spinner on the outside. The theory is that items that are cold contract, and items that are hot expand. I don't argue the science, but it didn't break the parts loose. I had exhausted all options. It was time to get serious!

Here is what worked, but I have to tell you that this is not the recommended method. The reason is real simple: there is no return from this one. I drilled a big hole in the middle of the threaded cup. I ran a large bolt then a lock washer on the back side through the hole in the cup, then another lock washer, then two nuts to lock against each other. Then I was able to hold the cup in place with a deep socket on the two stacked nuts while turning the spinner. Once it broke free, it unscrewed surprisingly easily. Good news: I am back at scratch. Bad news: I have to see if I can get a new cup from FFR. Frustrating!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76889&d=1511152054

Threads also had a little damage from the setscrew, but not a lot. I still cannot figure out exactly what bound it up so securely. Gotta get me some of that anti seize!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76888&d=1511152054

Moved on to the PS roll bar. I removed the PS rear wheel. Then I ran the wiring for the LED lights in the roll bars. I must be getting better at it, it took a bit less time than the first time. I am ready to put the roll bar in. I have everything in place, trim rings, gaskets, wiring, I'm good to go. With a bit of help from the whole family, caaaaarefully slid the bar through the holes. The front two are plenty big, no problem, the rear is just long enough at the back to let the bar slide into the trunk area. It looks like it is going to go in with no drama when . . . The front legs are too far apart! I can't quite figure it out. It fit before the bars were polished, before the body was painted. What would be strong enough to bend the bars apart by about 1/4". Heat from the polishing? Wouldn't think so. Oh well, gotta bend the bars just a bit. I pulled out a bar clamp, wrapped the ends of the roll bars with soft clothes and compressed the bars together from 14" wide to 13.25" apart. When I let the pressure from the clamp off, the bars bounced back to 13.75". I hoped that this would be enough. We put the bar back in, and the bars were close, but still not quite close enough. With many helping hands, we bent the bar just in time for my son to pound it down onto the mounting pipes. (The top of the bar was wrapped with a microfibre cloth, then a board was placed on top of the cloth, and my son struck the wood. No roll bars were injured in the installation process!) We carefully tapped down the bar until it was close to the right height for the rear bar to slide into place on the rear mounting pipe. We are very close, but not close enough. The rear bar hits the body before it can slide low enough to be fully attached. :(

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76890&d=1511152055

We checked eleven way to sunday to see if the bars were at the right height. My wife said it was close enough, but the PS bar is still about .25" too high. I can see it. It will drive me nuts. I am going to have to try to get that bar back out, and have no idea exactly how I will do it! I am going to have to find a way to pound it back out without damaging the painted body. This should be fun!! I think that is going to have to wait till next weekend.

I am still pointing toward registering the car on Wednesday. The last major hurdle that I have to cross is to figure out why the turn signals aren't working. I have already checked the easy solution: The fuse is in good shape. It seems that the Russ Thompson turn signal system has frozen in place. The turn signals don't work, the flashers don't work, and the headlights are stuck in high beam. I am pretty sure the flashers don't work partially because I still have the FFR flasher unit in the fuse panel. I replaced the turn signal unit with a solid state unit, but I didn't realize that I would need a second one for the hazard flashers. I will need to order one of those. But I still can't figure where the problem might be for the turn signals. I hope I can figure that out before I try to register the car, or I hope the inspector won't test them! (Not likely!!) Could the flasher unit have burned out when I created the dead short that fried the fuel pump fuse? The last time I tried them, they worked, but that was months ago now!! I haven't check the fuses in the Coyote PDB fuse box. Wouldn't expect it there, but I guess it it worth a shot. Got any ideas?

TexasAviator

11-20-2017, 12:16 AM

Jazzman, great job. Take an air hose ans spray all that block sanding dust out of the fuse panel. It might have clogged something up. Also get yourself a test light with a spring in it. I got mine from sears, craftsman brand. Stick a 12 volt garage door/remote control battery inside it and make it a 12 volt tester/power supply. Then hit each wire with it to light up the appropriate lights. I provided a picture of the one I made.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4576/26759153579_382e703983_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GLBE5T)2017-11-19_11-14-28 (https://flic.kr/p/GLBE5T) by , on Flickr

sbhunter

11-20-2017, 04:20 AM

you are definitely having your share of frustrations on final assembly. I'm sure that you will conquer all. I just keep going back to the final pictures and staring at it. What a beautiful color and car in whole!! What lights did you use for the roll bar 3rd brake? I am planning something similar.

wareaglescott

11-20-2017, 07:01 AM

Maybe the inspector won't notice the turn signals and you can work that out later. My inspector was so enamored with the car he essentially looked at nothing. Just drive up with the lights on and he will see they work, then get out real quick and use the Jedi mind trick!
Good luck with the roll bars. That is no fun getting to the base of those things crawling in the small trunk with the body on. Is the other side permanently attached already? Is moving the other one up 1/4" an easier option?

edwardb

11-20-2017, 07:37 AM

Your pictures of the spinner adapters does make it look like you dinged the threads some with the set screws. But then you describe it spun off easily after initially coming loose. So could have just been the usual way they can get stuck when assembled dry. Too bad you had to tear up the one to get it off. Not the first I've heard that story though. Won't be the first time FF hears it either. Hopefully they will work with you on a replacement.

I had similar issues getting my Breeze roll bar to sit down all the way on #7750. With only one though I wasn't too worried about symmetry. The three rigid legs makes alignment pretty critical. Hard to explain why they're different now versus when mocked up. But I found to "adjust" mine I had to bend them way past the expected amount of movement for it to be permanent. I used a bar clamp to squeeze them together, and a floor jack to squeeze them apart.

For the electrical gremlins, what you're describing has nothing to do with the Coyote PDB. No lighting circuits there or anything that would affect them. When you say the headlights are stuck on high beam, I assume that means when you turn them on they won't switch back and forth between low and high beam (as opposed to being always on regardless of headlight switch position). The headlights and turn/hazards are completely separate circuits. So in theory the problem shouldn't be related. But if you're using the RT turn signal assembly to also switch the low/high beam with the momentary button, the the RT turn signal could be the common denominator. Good luck figuring it out.

AZPete

11-20-2017, 10:07 AM

Kevin. the AZ DMV Inspector doesn't care about any lights. The inspection is for stolen parts, not silly little things like lights, brakes, seat belts or a windshield.
I suggest you bring a Band-Aid for when the Inspector's chin hits the floor over your flip-top paint job.

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 02:58 AM

In order to get "FlipTop" registered, I knew I would have to make at least two trips to the DMV. The first was to find out how persnickety they might be, and to get a three day temporary permit to drive the car over for the inspection. It's only about four miles away, but still I decided to be safe rather than sorry. The permit only cost $1, and I needed to know how to prepare for the inspection anyway. I arrived at 7:45 this morning because I wanted to get in and out before there was a long line. I was sure they opened at 8am. I was wrong. They opened at 7:30am! Oh well, no significant line yet anyway. I was checked in promptly and sent to stand in the "A" line (the one for "hard" title issues. I didn't think that sounded like a promising start, but . . .) I only had to wait about 8 minutes when I was summoned to a young lady's desk. When I arrived, there was a placard on her desk that said "Please be patient. I am in training". Oh great. This should be fun! It was not unexpected when she admitted she had never seen or processed a title like mine. She was very confused about the 1965 date and the 2016 engine. Once I sorted it out with her, she had to get her superior to walk her through this one. Only a couple minutes later, they both returned. It took about five minutes, and they had issued me my temporary permit, taken my $1 bill, and sent me to talk to the "inspections" department. Oh boy, here it comes!!

There was one other gentlemen in the inspections department when I arrived. He was having a golf cart inspected (why, I can't possibly imagine!!). I explained my needs to the receptionist and initial screener. She filled out a couple of pieces of paper. I asked her if I needed to make an appointment for the inspection, and she confirmed that yes, that is usually a good idea. I told her I wished to complete the process on Wednesday (exactly two years to the day of the delivery of my kit by the FFR semi-truck.) She said "that shouldn't be a problem, but did I have time to bring it in this morning. We are dead at the moment". I hadn't planned on doing the entire process today, but the window of opportunity swung wide for me. I immediately made the six minute drive home, grabbed the remainder of the documentation that I was sure they were going to look over in detail, and fired up FlipTop for her first real trip on city streets!

It was quite exciting to really be driving the car beyond the side streets of my neighborhood. It surely drew looks and thumbs up! (I am absolutely sure it was the car and not the driver getting the thumbs up!!) When I arrived back at the DMV, there still was only one person in front of me, and there were two inspectors. A woman came out and called the other gentlemen out for his inspection. Apparently he had bought a totaled car, restored it to basic driveability, and was planning to give it to his daughter. The inspector was grilling him on every aspect of the car! I sat there thinking, "if this is what they do to an old beater of a car, what do that do to someone who built his own car?" This wasn't going to be pretty!

About five minutes later another inspector came out. He was very friendly, and seemed at least partially interested in the car. He walked around it once, asked me to open the hood, looked for a engine serial number (didn't find one), instructed me to close the hood, walked around it once more to admire the paint job, and he was done! The entire inspection couldn't have taken three minutes. He didn't have me start the engine, didn't check the brakes or lights, didn't check anything at all! He affixed an official state of Arizona VIN plate to the car. I had to pay $25 for the inspection. Done! This is just too easy. You just know it has to all fall apart soon, right?

I was sent back to the main waiting area, assigned to Line "A" again (great!) and by sheer luck was re-assigned to my favorite trainee! I explained to her all wanted to do: 1) reassign the "FLIPTOP" plate from my truck to the Roadster, 2) title the Roadster into my Trust, 3) get a new plate for the truck. She immediately got that "oh my gosh, "this one is way over my head look" again. She took a copy of my trust certificate, a copy of my initial purchase Paperwork from FFR, my certificate of origin from FFR, surprisingly not a copy of my insurance card. She headed off to the supervisor again. I waited. And waited. and WAITED! about 20 minutes later she finally returned,all her notes and instructions in hand. After that, it was just a matter of processing each task one at a time. First she transferred the old plate off my truck, and assigned it to the Roadster. She needed a bit more help figuring out how to fit all the information into the very limited slots available on the computer system. She process the title and the registration then made copies of all my provided documentation. Then she handed me the bill for registration. "Here it comes . . . steady . . . keep calm . . . you knew this was coming . . . You can handle this . . . " (all inside my mind of course!): $73.10!!!

The entire registration, inspection, and titling had taken me a grand total of 2 hours and 25 minutes, and included two full round trips to the house, and cost less than $100 total! I am really sorry to tell you that if you live in one of those semi-socialist states that requires half a day, lots of frustration, and an inspection that approaches the level of a rectal exam! I could not be more pleased with the entire process. It would have taken even less time if I hadn't had to wait on the young lady to learn the job, but lets face it, you have to learn sometime, it might as well be on me. I'll bet she doesn't see many of these cars in many months of work. It was a pretty unique opportunity for her. I was just happy to get it done!!

So what did I do when i got home? I'll give you a hint:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76967&d=1511248343

wareaglescott

11-21-2017, 06:14 AM

congrats Kevin!
Did you go on an extended drive on the way home or at least the long way home?

Jeff Kleiner

11-21-2017, 06:23 AM

Vette1972

11-21-2017, 08:37 AM

Kevin,

Your trial and tribulations have come to an exciting conclusion! Atta boy!! Your thread has been great to follow. Hope the weather is good this winter in AZ. Go enjoy!!!!

Len

WIS89

11-21-2017, 08:46 AM

Kevin-

Terrific news; congratulations!! Boy, I bet that feels amazing! And, what a relief that what could have been extraordinarily painful process, was fairly benign (and cheap too!).

Now, go drive the wheels off (figuratively of course!).

I am very happy for you. One more thing to be thankful for this year! All the best!

Regards,

Steve

TexasAviator

11-21-2017, 09:06 AM

Nice

NAZ

11-21-2017, 09:49 AM

Congratulations! Just one more reason I love Arizona. When I lived in California I'd rather have a root canal than go to the DMV for anything.

AZPete

11-21-2017, 10:08 AM

See? Arizona is the best state for specialty cars. Easy registration, lots of sunny days, fun curvy roads and very few pot holes. I really like your writing skills and I join the other guys in extending a big congratulation for building a beautiful car. I look forward to seeing it all finished. Oh, and thanks for training a DMV newbie. :D

Cars & Coffee Show on December 2nd?

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 11:15 AM

congrats Kevin!
Did you go on an extended drive on the way home or at least the long way home?

No, sadly I had to drive right straight home and go to work. I plan to drive it to my appointment today. Then, perhaps a long drive!

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 11:20 AM

Congrats Kevin!

Having to wait in "Line A" makes me think of being sent to the "Group W bench" which is coincidentally appropriate this week. I'm thinking you'll get that reference ;)

Now, go drive!

Jeff

Ah, yes, and i remember the "8x10 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.". I may have to pull out the "massacree" on Thursday. Blessing on you and your family this Thanksgiving. We all clearly have a great deal to be thankful for!!

TexasAviator

11-21-2017, 11:22 AM

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 11:41 AM

Cars & Coffee Show on December 2nd?

Where and when? I was thinking about taking it to the Scuderia Southwest Scottsdale Motorsports Gathering at Mayo and Scottsdale on Dec 2, then to the Arizona Cobra's Christmas party later that same day. But I am open to better options! Will you be bringing out the 818?

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 11:45 AM

Great work Jazz. Love seeing progress like thos. It motivates me to get in the garage and keep plugging rivets. Work life balance is an oxymoron right now in the Air Force. Hope to fix this soon with some leave and the holidays. Enjoy.

Yes, balance is always a difficult thing. Take your time and enjoy your build. We will look forward to seeing more progress pics during your leave and holidays. By the way, you and all the members of the armed services are one of the many things that we give thanks for this time of year!

AZPete

11-21-2017, 11:56 AM

Yes, the Scuderia SW event is also known as Cars & Coffee - same show. 1st Saturday @ Mayo & Scottsdale. I'll go with my 818 if you go.

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 12:31 PM

Yes, the Scuderia SW event is also known as Cars & Coffee - same show. 1st Saturday @ Mayo & Scottsdale. I'll go with my 818 if you go.

I'm in! SkullandBones: Will you join us and make it a trio?

i.e.427

11-21-2017, 02:19 PM

Before I installed the roll bar for the final time, I installed the LED lights that were milled into the top of the bar. I won't go into how it is done, but it is not hard, but somewhat tricky. Long story short, I got it done. After the bar was installed, I wired in the connecting wires into the taillight wiring. The result is . . . extremely cool!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76862&d=1511069419

We are really glad you like the roll bar lights Kevin. The car has turned out Fantastic!

Jeff Kleiner

11-21-2017, 02:25 PM

...I may have to pull out the "massacree" on Thursday...

It became an annual Thanksgiving tradition at our house when our daughter was about 8...much to my wife's chagrin :)

Happy Thanksgiving back to you!

Jeff

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 03:43 PM

We are really glad you like the roll bar lights Kevin. The car has turned out Fantastic!

Thanks! That means a lot coming from an expert like you! Have a Blessed Thanksgiving!

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 04:05 PM

Drove the car for about 20 miles today. Took it on the freeway for the first time. So far, I have not heard any unexpected noises. Observations:

1. Dang, this thing is powerful!!
2. Dang, this thing is short! I am used to looking down on most vehicles from my truck. It is quite an experience to be looking up a the door handles of the car to your left.
3. The wind is surprisingly not a big issue. (As compared to my experience on a motorcycle!) Wind noise is not a major issue, and eye strain due to wind in my eyes is also minimal.
4. I need to focus some serious energy on sealing up the tunnel between the engine bay and the doors. That blast of hot air right off the headers is going to get old.
5. I love the sound of the FFR pipes, but it is quite clear to me that the drone of the pipes at 70 mph will get old quickly! Hello Summit . . .
6. The gas gauge is very accurate, but falls from 1/4 tank to empty very quickly. When I filled up the tank today for the first time, I put in 15 gallons. My memory is that this is a 15 gallon tank!!
7. Dang, this thing is powerful!!!! (Yeah, I know I said that, but . . . whoa!!)
8. With all the other mods I did, I wish I had modded the inboard DS Footbox wall. It is tight in there! I am going to have to get "driving shoes". My wide, stable, crosstrainers are just too wide to fit well between the wall and the brake pedal.
9. Wish I had put in a slot in the tranny tunnel cover to hold my cell phone. I still may do that.
10. I might need to revisit the hydraulic clutch cylinder to reduce the input pressure. I think I already changed that once. I may have to go back and do it a second time.
11. The dropped trunk box was a really great addition. It makes it very easy to just toss my briefcase in there and go and not have to worry about it sliding around.
12. It is a very unique experience to be driving a car at 80mph on the freeway that you built in your garage!

It is good to know that just because the car is close to being "done", the list of projects and improvements goes on and on. It sure is fund to drive!

edwardb

11-21-2017, 04:32 PM

It sure is fund to drive!

Don't know if that was on purpose or just a Freudian slip. But that right there is funny. Yes they do tax the funds. But worth every penny.

Congrats on your first real drive. It doesn't get old. BTW, hopefully you have some protection on those rear fender flares. They take a beating from the first mile. Gotta save that beautiful paint.

Jazzman

11-21-2017, 06:13 PM

Don't know if that was on purpose or just a Freudian slip. But that right there is funny. Yes they do tax the funds. But worth every penny.

Congrats on your first real drive. It doesn't get old. BTW, hopefully you have some protection on those rear fender flares. They take a beating from the first mile. Gotta save that beautiful paint.

I'm not even going to go back and correct that one!! That is funny. Too many years in the financial industry. It is a true statement, regardless of which implication you take!

As for the fender flares, no, I don't have anything on them yet. I was told to wait a month before applying "clear bra" material to allow the paint to fully cure. I can tell it is still curing because I can smell it every day in the garage. I don't know what I will do about this problem. I don't know that I can wait a month to drive this thing!! Jeff Kleiner - what do you think? Do I need to wait a month for the paint to cure? What fender flare protection do you suggest?

wareaglescott

11-21-2017, 06:24 PM

IF nothing else install and remove some blue painters tape before and after every drive.

I find my door pocket works great for the cell phone. In my other cars I am somewhat bad about distracted driving with the cell phone. This thing takes a little more attention. Down at the bottom of the door pocket for the phone during driving is perfect!

Jeff Kleiner

11-22-2017, 06:47 AM

Kevin,
I agree, don't put impermeable spats on yet. Scott's tape suggestion is a good one.

Jeff

Jazzman

11-22-2017, 06:21 PM

Just got back from a nice 70 mile shake down cruise. It was great. The temp could have been better: it was 90 degrees here today! Where is my 75-78 degrees we usually have on Thanksgiving? Oh well. Fun anyway. Lots of thumbs up, "gorgeous car", waves, and smiles, a few photos, and a lot of amazed looks when the found I built it! What a great feeling! Learned a lot:

1) power steering is great, but I may actually have the power too high. I believe I can make the steering turn just by thinking about it while sitting in my office! It is really sensitive. May just be that I am not used to it.
2) I'm out of practice driving a stick shift! I never stalled it, but I am not as smooth as I used to be. It has been over 7 years since I have driven a manual transmission. My muscle memory is clearly weak.
3) The car drives like it is on rails! absolutely instant response, turns great!
4) My wife approved of the ride. It was "much better than I expected"!
5) Gotta put more effort into sealing the blast furnace coming off the engine right onto my left thigh. Really hot. I wish I had spent more time custom making seals for that area before the body was permanently on. This is top priority today. I have some pool noodles from the summer (Thank's Jeff Kleiner!!) in Purple, yellow, or blue. None match the color. I think I may go with purple and spray paint them matte black when they are all formed and ready to be installed. More on that later.
6) Borrowed a friends angle drill kit to install set screws into the wheel hubs to hold the spinner cups in place. I've never seen one like this, but it looks like it should work fine. More on that later.
7) Quite pipes will be ordered this weekend! Ok, I admit it. "If it is too loud, you are too old". I am officially too old. I have tinnitis anyway, and the drone of those pipes, while beautiful music perhaps, is just too loud! I really want to stay with polished stainless steel, not ceramic coated silver. If i have flowmasters installed into the existing pipes, I can get the all polished look I want, but it might take 2-4 weeks to complete the project. The last time I looked, the company that EdwardB used did not do full polished stainless pipes. (I will look again). I remember seeing an new forum vendor in the ads. I am going to look into whatever they offer. Suggestions and opinions are very welcome, but more quiet pipes are on the "very high gotta get them now" list!

Off to ace to get set screws.

edwardb

11-22-2017, 06:36 PM

...The last time I looked, the company that EdwardB used did not do full polished stainless pipes. (I will look again)...

The pipes I've used three times are from GAS-N Performance. http://www.gas-n.com/home.html. They are brilliantly polished SS. Super high quality. Multiple people report, myself included, along with some actual measurements, that from a pure decibel standpoint they are not any quieter than the standard FF pipes. But the sound is much more mellow and missing the metallic ring that many report, again including me, from the FF pipes. They also seem to last much longer, so they don't get louder over time. Finally, the ends turn down slightly which surprisingly helps. I highly recommend them and short of hard (e.g. loud...) acceleration, it's possible to carry on a conversation in the cockpit while driving. But I would not rate them as quiet as other custom combinations people have come up with. Whatever you do, I hope you and your passengers are wearing ear plugs. I've measured the sound pressure levels in the open cockpit even when the pipes aren't loud. Between road noise, wind, traffic, etc. it's not a level you should have constant exposure to.

myjones

11-22-2017, 07:06 PM

At SEMA this year the unisteer folks showed me a new plug in module that will turn down the steering assist to a more custom/comfortable
level. They don't have anything indexed to speed at this point so it's a set it where you want deal for now.
HTH
Dale

Straversi

11-23-2017, 10:04 AM

Recently swapped out my FFR pipes for the polished Gas-N units. Love them
-Steve

Jazzman

11-25-2017, 01:16 AM

The devil, they say, is in the details. After my first highly successful shake down cruise, my laundry list of details to fix had grown substantially. First an most important item on the list: stop that hot blast of air from the engine pouring into the cockpit from along the body. Many have discussed the need for sealing the cockpit, but in my haste to get the body on the frame and back to the painter, I neglected to install some sort of seal between the body and the sides and top of either footbox. IF YOU ARE SOON GOING TO BE INSTALLING THE BODY FOR THE LAST TIME, PLEASE LEARN FROM MY MISTAKE: INSTALL INSULATION AS YOU ARE INSTALLING THE BODY ON THE FRAME. I now had to figure out to squeeze some sort of insulation into the spaces that allowed heated air to flow. The material was easy to find: pool noodles from the pool storage cabinet.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77079&d=1511587937

not exactly the color I might have choosen, but you will really have to look to find it anyway. I may paint it if it works out ok. For now, call this a test fit. The idea is to slice the pool noodle longitudinally and carve it to a shape so that when you open it up it will become a tight half circle to press firmly on both the inside of the body and the outside of the footbox. IF the body is not permanetly atached, this would be an easy process: Pull out the base of the body, slip the foam tube in place, attach the body and make sure the foam is squished into every crevice. Now that my body is painted, fitted, and "perfect", I don't want to unbolt it to put the foam in. So I have to figure out how to squeeze it into the spaces without moving the body. Hmmm..

Each piece is custom cut. I'll start with the PS seal first becuase it is easier to access (but not by much!!) Cut a piece of noodle to the approximate length of space you have to fill. Feel free to leave it a bit long. You will still be able to use it. The top and bottom of the space is more narrow than the center section. Slice off about 10" starting very thin, and ending by cutting about 40% of the tube.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77081&d=1511587939

Cut a flat spot on one side to connect the two tapered ends.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77082&d=1511587940

Slice longitudinally to allow the tube to open up and create a wide 1/2 tube.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77083&d=1511587941

open up the tube, then begin sliding the half tube up from inside the door frame pushing it between the body and the footbox. If it fits right, it will be very tight. I had to use a stick to slowly urge the noodle to change from horizontal to vertical. the end of the noodle should be right against the aluminum panel which is fitted behind the end of the dash board. The rest of the noodle should be tightly fitted along the edge of footbox and pushed into place with a stick. (Use the widest stick that will fit into the space so as not to jamb it into the foam tube.)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77088&d=1511587945

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77087&d=1511587944

Once the vertical foam noodle is guarding the upper half of the opening, the door frame area is still potentially exposed. cut a length of foam to entirely fit under the door jamb. Cut that length almost in half by cutting 30 degree cuts the full length of the tube. Again, this is keep the edges flat when the tube is laid open.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77084&d=1511587942

Jazzman

11-25-2017, 02:08 AM

Stuff this half tube into the space below the door sill. Butt it up against the foam tube that is installed vertically. These photos are from the DS, but the concept is the same.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77090&d=1511587947

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77091&d=1511587948

Now you can install the door sill and finish it in whatever way you prefer.

The DS foam is conceptually the same, though I did add an additional piece of custom cut foam tube on the top of the foot box against the top portion of the body. It was much more difficult to get the foam tube into the DS spaces, but it can be done. Be patient , and feel free to pull the foam tubes out and carve them a little more to get them to fit tightly, but not too tight.

After getting all this foam stuffed in and covered up, It was time for another test run. Thirty five miles each way, turkey dinner #2, lots of compliments and amazed viewers. Successful test: no air blasts from the engine compartment.

I get home, feeling very cool, go to get my cool self out of the car and . . . the door handle won't open. The handle moves, but the pin won't disengage. I messed with it for a few minutes but to no avail. I can't get the door open. I ultimately had to loosen the striker piece to allow enough space between the striker piece and the latch pin. I slipped a very thin spark plug gap tool (yes, I still have one!!) between the two pieces. It finally moved the pin enough to allow the pieces to come apart.

I went to my old friends on the forum and found the classic but seemingly timeless door handle mod.

http://www.linger.com/cobra/DoorLatchRepair.htm

Once again you came though for me. I followed this series of modifications, and now both latches work smoothly. I did remove the exterior spring, and the handle still works great. I took off half of the handle stop on one latch unit, but took the entire stop off the other side. Now the handle retracts the pin entirely into the housing away from the latch point. I used a conical grinding wheel to chamfer the edges of the hole in latch striker piece. now the latch pin slides more easily into the striker piece. It's all back together now and working fine. (Wish I would have done this the first time. It really is amazing that this piece broke after only being used a few times. Poor quality!)

On to the rear over-riders (bumperettes as my wife calls them!) I am using the threaded couplers inside the trunk areas to make future access more simple. (After seeing how hard it is to do this, I am not sure if I made it easier!!) The first thing I had to do is drill out the threaded holes on the rear over-riders to allow a piece of 7/16" threaded rod to slip through. This proved to be a drill bit killer. Because the hole is already almost the correct size, the only cutting that is being done is by the sides of the drill bit, not the tip. Because of this, the sides of the drill bit get exremely hot. This wears down the edges much more quickly than normal. I have now drilled three of the four holes, and each hole ruined one drill bit!. I am going to try a cylindrical grinding wheel on the drill tomorrow and see if I can just grind out the necessary space.

I did get two holes drilled, and was able to install one rear over-rider. I bought a 3 foot length of threaded rod 7/16" x 14. Unfortunatly the threading was not deep enough, and the nuts would not thread onto it. :mad: I had to re=thread the entire length of rod!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77094&d=1511587951

I cut the rod into 5.5" sections, four pieces. I put the threaded rod through the holes in the back of the overrider, and put a nylok nut on the back side. I tighened the nut just enough to see 1/8" of the rod beyond the end of the nut. ON the outside of the over-rider, I slipped a 2" length of stainless tubing left over from the original body mounting bolts. Then I put a washer and a rubber washer on the rod. Once both of these rods are loaded in this way, I put them through the holes in the back of the body. I was able to spin these bolts by hand for part of the way to screw them into the threaded connector behind the body. When I could no longer turn the threaded rod by hand, I used a pair of slip joint pliers on the exposed section of the threads on the outside of the body. (This portion will be covered by the stainless steel tubes that cover the rods.) Finally, i tighened the nut on the inside of the overrider to snug the stainless tubing up against the washer, rubber washer, and the body. This took a lot of time in uncomfortable positions, but I got it done. One done, one to go!

I can't move forward until I can get the hole opened up on the other over-rider. That will have to wait til tomorrow.

GoDadGo

11-25-2017, 11:10 AM

Jazzman,

Like the use of the "Swim Noodles" and your idea for the overrider rods.
Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!

Steve

carlewms

11-25-2017, 11:26 AM

Jazzman,

Thanks for posting the noodle installation ... I have not installed the body permanently so I can still mount the foam but was thinking of putting insulation between the aluminum on the frame and body along the sill.

Carl

edwardb

11-25-2017, 01:19 PM

cgundermann

11-25-2017, 07:36 PM

First time I've seen anyone put any sealing material the sills by the doors. Normally it's only necessary to put it between the body and the footboxes in front of the door hinges. It needs to go fully from top to bottom. Maybe there's something different about your build because of the flip front?

I'm with Paul, just extra insulation for that area you don't need. Just did mine and at Lowes they sell both large and small kits of air conditioning foam. It's not as hard as the rigid pool noodle stuff and you can get it into all the small crevices without deforming the door/body interface.

Chris

Jazzman

11-25-2017, 11:30 PM

Jazzman

11-27-2017, 03:42 PM

I need to get a full alignment done. (Yes, I know some of you do it yourself, but I have decided that is one aspect I am just not interested in doing myself.) I called the local auto service place that takes care of my Ford F150 truck. They confirmed that they do alignments. I told them that this was a FFR 65 Shelby Cobra replica with 2016 Ford Mustang engine and IRS. They told me "we can't work on that because we do not have the specifications for that vehicle." Obviously I am going to look for another provider who has more breadth of experience, but are there some specifics that I should be able to tell the alignment provider? I know that a good alignment takes a combination of specialized tools and professional skills, but I don't think of an alignment as something that is so very complex and unknown. Am I wrong?

Jdav

11-27-2017, 03:51 PM

PeteH

11-27-2017, 04:26 PM

I just had mine done last Wednesday. I found a local shop owned by a guy on this forum that knew what to do with Heim joint suspensions. It took about 2 hrs on the rear (94 TBird IRS), and 15min on the front, on a modern high tech rack. Great work Bill & crew! The front specs were in the manual, and rear in old IRS addendum for mine. I still had to regrind a flat on the rack spline to center the steering wheel, a simple task with body off. It was fun to go cart when I got home, and had a chance to get on it a bit thru second gear on a private marina road, the whole neighborhood is talking about how cool, and loud, it sounds. All were positive I should add. Lucky me.
I had asked at the local Conrad's chain last year, and when I asked whether they could set up a heim joint suspension, the delay in response as he stared into space told me what I needed to know before he said, "well, we've never seen one but we can try."

Jazzman

11-27-2017, 04:49 PM

edwardb

11-27-2017, 07:28 PM

My suspension is different than yours, but you have given me a good direction. I thought I had seen the specs somewhere in the manual, but I couldn't find them when I looked yesterday. I will look a little harder. I have the 2016 Mustang IRS, so I will look in those documents to see if specs were included. Good counsel. Thanks!

The alignment specs for the 2015+ Mustang based IRS are on the last part of the IRS instructions. Camber: -0.5° to -0.75°, Total Toe: 1/8” Toe in. Not listed in the instructions that I can see is Factory Five recommends these adjustment nuts have red Loctite applied.

I know you said you didn't want to do it yourself. But the kind of experience you're having is the same around here. I just didn't want to deal with it. On my first build, I spent a couple hundred bucks for the tools and learned to do it myself. It's actually kind of fun and interesting.

Jazzman

11-28-2017, 12:28 AM

The alignment specs for the 2015+ Mustang based IRS are on the last part of the IRS instructions. Camber: -0.5° to -0.75°, Total Toe: 1/8” Toe in. Not listed in the instructions that I can see is Factory Five recommends these adjustment nuts have red Loctite applied.

I know you said you didn't want to do it yourself. But the kind of experience you're having is the same around here. I just didn't want to deal with it. On my first build, I spent a couple hundred bucks for the tools and learned to do it myself. It's actually kind of fun and interesting.

OK. I will reconsider. I will go search your threads and WarEagleScott and see if I can't figure out what to buy and where to start. My only remaining hesitation is "red locktite". That stuff is my mortal enemy!!

Mark Eaton

11-28-2017, 12:46 AM

I have been fretting over the alignment issue since build school. I vacillate between take it to someone vs do it myself. I would rather do it myself. Tools for alignment range from $20 to over $500 for the Quicktrick Alignment system. Not sure where to go. The most expensive tools are those that don't work well...

I am gaining more confidence as I read more build threads, watch Youtube vids, and read wikipedia.

Oh, and I'm getting really good at backing out bolts that have red locktite on them!

Jazzman

11-28-2017, 01:04 AM

wareaglescott

11-28-2017, 05:34 AM

I would in no way describe my driving experience twitchy. I think an alignment will help you out.

Keep in mind with the IRS you are going to need a good rear alignment as well. I spent a lot of time doing mine. In the end I thought I did pretty good. When the car was at Whitby they had a local shop that did a lot of cars for them so I figured I would go ahead and get mine done. Turns out when seeing the before and after printout I was not nearly as close as I thought. I had a hard time getting the level of accuracy I needed from the tools I bought. I know Paul had good results with the same tools though so it certainly can be done.

Jeff Kleiner

11-28-2017, 06:56 AM

I am also wondering if a good front end alignment might make the car less "squirley". I am surprised and pleased that the car drives very straight and true. But it is VERY "twitchy". (Don't you love all my technical language?!!) I am searching for alignment tools now.

If they tell you that they can only align it if it's in their computer move on. A good old school alignment tech can set to any specs you like without having to rely on the computer to tell him what to turn and how much. Course maybe that's just my inner curmudgeon coming out...

"Twitchy" is a result of not being aligned properly. I'm not familiar with the specs for the '15 IRS so use FFR's recommendation there. As for the front with a street car go with .5 degree negative camber, 8 degrees positive caster for power steering (may need to shorten the rear adjuster sleeves depending on UCA vintage) or 3 degrees positive for manual and 3/32" total toe in. MAKE SURE THAT IS TOE IN, NOT TOE OUT. Toe out will make it...."Twitchy" :)

Jeff

Jazzman

11-28-2017, 11:22 PM

If they tell you that they can only align it if it's in their computer move on. A good old school alignment tech can set to any specs you like without having to rely on the computer to tell him what to turn and how much. Course maybe that's just my inner curmudgeon coming out...

"Twitchy" is a result of not being aligned properly. I'm not familiar with the specs for the '15 IRS so use FFR's recommendation there. As for the front with a street car go with .5 degree negative camber, 8 degrees positive caster for power steering (may need to shorten the rear adjuster sleeves depending on UCA vintage) or 3 degrees positive for manual and 3/32" total toe in. MAKE SURE THAT IS TOE IN, NOT TOE OUT. Toe out will make it...."Twitchy" :)

Jeff

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. After looking into the tools cost, the learning curve, and the frequency with which I am not going to do a full alignment, I have decided to have a pro do it. Thank you to AZPete for introducing me to a nearby shop that has the skills and FFR background to do the job. I have an appointment to get it done tomorrow at 2:30. Just to make sure I have it all straight:

From page 41 of the IRS manual, "Alignment Specs": IRS should have Camber of -0.5 to -0.75 degrees. Total Toe of 1/8" Toe IN. No notation given for Caster. (Should I be concerned about that?) FFR Manual, Page 440, states Rear IRS should get Camber -1 degree, Total Toe 1/16", No Caster notation. (Again, should I be concerned about this, bot the lack of Caster and the slight variation between the FFR Manual and the IRS manual?)

From Jeff Kleiner, and confirmed on page 440 of the FFR Build manual, Revision 4-A, October 2015, the Front for a car using power steering: Caster: 8 degrees (FFR manual says 7 degrees), Camber -0.5 degrees, Total Toe 1/16" (Total Toe IN?, No Caster given.)

Does it sound like I have that right?

Gromit

11-28-2017, 11:51 PM

No caster on IRS, caster is the line that the wheel pivots on, so unless you've installed rear wheel steering like a monster truck your all set :p as for camber follow Jeff
Chris aka Gromit

Mark Eaton

11-28-2017, 11:56 PM

Kevin,
From what I've ready, mainly wikipedia, you only do Castor alignment on "steering" wheels. So, only the front. The rear only need camber and toe.

edwardb

11-29-2017, 12:12 AM

Glad you found a place that you trust and knows these cars. They may not have seen the new IRS setup before, but it's very straightforward and they shouldn't have any trouble. Unlike the previous version, no need to take anything apart. Just loosen the jam nuts, adjust, and re-tighten. FF recommends red Loctite on the rear toe and camber lock nuts. Sorry about that... I'd follow their recommendation. I think it's for a reason. I also marked mine so I could watch that they don't move.

X3 on no caster for the rear non-turning wheels. The rear IRS numbers I cited before (Camber: -0.5° to -0.75°, Total Toe: 1/8” Toe in.) was cut and pasted out of the FF 2015 IRS instructions, same as you mentioned. I'd guess the specs you're looking at in the manual are for the previous T-Bird based IRS setup. For the front, yes toe IN as Jeff said. You may have trouble getting a full 8 degrees of caster in the front without slightly shortening the rear UCA adjuster. Maybe you've read about this in other threads.

I'm willing to bet when the alignment is done you're going to notice a big different. Mine isn't twitchy at all. Quick, yes, but stays right where you put it. You'll love it.

Jazzman

11-29-2017, 01:11 AM

No caster on IRS, caster is the line that the wheel pivots on, so unless you've installed rear wheel steering like a monster truck your all set :p as for camber follow Jeff
Chris aka Gromit

Well I guess that shows what I don't know!! Thanks!!

Jazzman

11-30-2017, 01:42 AM

What an amazing difference an alignment makes!! Today i had a professional shop with a $60,000 plus Alignment rack do a really accurate job! The best part was that he let me watch, and I ultimately got to look at the underside of my car on a really big four post lift. (I have got to get me one of those!!!) The reason by car was "twitchy" was that the PS rear tire was WAAAAAAAY out of Camber, and the DS rear was 3/4" off of Total toe. It took him about 75 minutes to do the whole job. It was very cool to see how the computer and the laser optical sensors were able to give real time feedback to the technician. I really am glad I didn't waste the money and learning time to do my own alignment. The whole job cost me $150. The tools alone looked like they would set me back $400-$500, and then I would have to learn how to use it . . . once. I would forget how to do it by the next time I needed to, and I would have to store all the tools for years! Nope, having this done was a brilliant decision. The results: The car drives great!! So much better than before. The steering gives just the right amount of feedback, steers straight and true, and feels much more planted in a hard acceleration. Some of the best money I have spent!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77277&d=1512023409

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77278&d=1512023410

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77279&d=1512023410

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77281&d=1512023411

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77280&d=1512023411

The resulting numbers:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77282&d=1512023411

wareaglescott

11-30-2017, 06:27 AM

Glad you got that squared away.
Did they have to shorten the rear UCA adjuster to achieve the proper caster?

What do you have left to do to finish it up?

Gromit

11-30-2017, 10:09 AM

It's all about having the right tools for the job, very nice indeed
Chris AKA Gromit

Jazzman

11-30-2017, 03:25 PM

Glad you got that squared away.
Did they have to shorten the rear UCA adjuster to achieve the proper caster?

What do you have left to do to finish it up?

No, it dialed in very nicely.

Are they ever truly finished? I am finding there is always a list, but it is getting shorter.
-- install set screws in wheels, install spinners
-- figure out the problems with the amplifier, get the music started!
-- do something to finish the ledges under the doors. Right now it is bare powdercoated metal. The edge of the carpet doesn't look as nice as I would like.
-- figure out why the turn signals, high beam switch does not work.
-- decided what, if anything, to do about the fact that the PS roll bar is 1/4" taller than the DS roll bar. You have to really be looking for it to see it, but I'm anal retentive and it bugs me.
-- get and install the door inserts with pockets.
-- hook up the courtesy lights in the foot boxes.

Other than that, it is just about done. I already have some ideas for "upgrades and improvements" but those can wait. It is car show and driving season here in Arizona. I plan to show off a bit!!

wareaglescott

11-30-2017, 05:09 PM

Do you have the carpet pieces for the ledges under the doors?
I noticed you don't have the front bumpers on but seem to remember you spent quite a bit of effort devising that system. What is the status of those?
Add you registration date to your signature. You earned it!

Jazzman

12-09-2017, 11:07 PM

Checking off the little details is a slow, but enjoyable process. Over the past few days, I have completed several items. I started by tearing out the dash to find out why the turn signals and hi/low beam stalk was not working. I can't speculate why it happened, but somewhere along the line the five wires must have become disconnected. They were connected when i got the dash off, but in the wrong order. If I ever have to fool with it again, I am going to change it out from five separate wires to one quick connect plug. This time, I just retraced each wire to figure out where it was supposed to be. Hooked it up correctly, it worked. Strange!

I installed the trim pieces on the outside ends of the windshield. The first one went in just as expected, no drama. Followed the same process, same drills, same screws from the same FFR package, and this on the second time through:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77635&d=1512877516

That is only one broken screw, not two, but still a very frustrating location. I laid two layers with tape on the paint to protect it, then used vice grips to back the screw out. I re-drilled the hole with the same drill bit, put another screw in, and it fit perfectly. Cheap screw I guess. Or perhaps my popeye arm strength!!!

Following my mentor's lead, I began drilling the holes in the wheel hubs to install set screws to hold the spinner cups in place. I had to borrow a 90 degree drill, and also borrow a really slick tool to hold the tap. Check this thing out. I just attached my 3/8" ratchet handle on this, and was able to turn the tap without hitting the sides of the wheels. Slick!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77634&d=1512877436

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77631&d=1512877435

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77630&d=1512877434

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77629&d=1512877434

This time I applied anti seize paste to the threads, and installed three of the four spinners with the covers over the nuts. It looks really good. I drilled and tapped the fourth wheel, but couldn't install the spinner because i have not yet gotten a replacement cup.

Tomorrow I am going to work on custom fitting the front over riders.

wareaglescott

12-10-2017, 07:09 AM

Cool little tool to hold the tap! Wish I had of known. I ended up cutting my handle down to make mine work!
When do you start install of the electrically activated hydraulically actuated opening mechanism for the flip top? ;)

Jazzman

12-16-2017, 02:48 AM

First impressions are everything. They can break potential relationships, and sometimes you have to learn to look beyond them. This week I experienced both.

After less than 300 miles, it became crystal clear that I had to do something immediately about the loud pipes. FFR's stock highly polished pipes look great, but have nothing to mitigate all that noise coming from the big Coyote. My options were pretty clear: Buy an aftermarket pair such as the popular Gas-N pipes, or retrofit the set for which I had already had paid so handsomely. The Gas-N (http://gas-n.com/Pricing.html) pipes are about $1300, are universally well respected, and are ready to go, just bolt them up. (I just noticed they are on sale right now.) Flowmaster (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flo-13530320) makes a very nice muffler that can be welded into the existing pipes. They come in either 24" or 30" lengths, with the 30" lengths being about 15% more quiet than the shorter version. I have used Flowmasters before, and been very pleased with the quality of the product and the sound produced. They claim that these pipes have an internal coating which helps keep the exterior surface cooler. (Not sure how effective this is.) Two forum members I trust, WarEagleScott and 2BKing, have both used them and are very pleased with the results. It would seem logical that the longer Flowmasters should be more quiet than the Gas-N pipes due solely to longer muffler section. I called around to get quotes for TIG welding and fabrication, and then for polishing. It appeared that the Flowmasters would cost about $450 for the pair, welding was quoted at about $350, and polishing an additional $300. So it appears that I can save a couple hundred bucks by retrofitting my existing pipes, and give some business to some local shops. I ordered up a pair of 30" Flowmasters. (After all that I have done on this car to this point, I don't know why I would be pinching pennies now!! That is a decision that I would come to regret!)

The new Flowmaster mufflers came in on Tuesday. Wednesday I took the car to a local shop that had been recommended for the job by the shop that did my alignment. They are right next door to each other. The shop is very clean, very nicely appointed, clearly owned and operated by someone who pays attention to the details. It looked good. We discussed the project, and he said he could probably get it done that day. He called me later that day and told me that it would be done the next day, which was no problem, but would I come in to see and approve the hanger location.

I arrived to find the PS pipe already welded up. First impression: That is one big sausage on the side of the car! Candidly it is not my favorite look, as it is awfully heavy for the look of the car as a whole. However, I had not even heard them yet, so I reserved judgement.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77803&d=1513343530

I noticed that the tip was behind the front lip of the wheel well. I am not sure why he made it quite this long. We discussed it, and I asked him to shorten up the tip section so that the end was no further aft than the trailing edge of the door. He said he would make the change. We examined the hanger idea he had. He was very concerned that the pipe was unsupported too far aft of the FFR support location. These mufflers are VERY heavy. I estimate about 20lbs a piece. He wanted to move the hanger aft so that most of the pipe was supported. I felt his idea had merit, so I approved it. He apologized for not getting it all done that day. I assured him it wasn't any problem. I wasn't going anywhere with it anyway.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77805&d=1513343531

He did a nice job of turning the tip down just a little bit to bounce the sound energy off the asphalt and away from my ears. Not straight down so as to throw gravel up off the tarmac, just enough to reduce the reflected sound.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77804&d=1513343530

He called Thursday to tell me it was done. I asked him for the final bill. He told me it was two and a half times higher than he had estimated!! I expected it to go up a little due to the additional hanger fabrication. No problem for that . But to miss the mark that badly, I was dumbfounded! I thought he had told me their hourly rate was $65, turns out it is $109. Instead of the 2-3 hours he told me it would take, it took him 7.5 hours. I told him I was not at all happy with this bill. I asked him why he was so severely off the mark on his estimate. He told me that it just took longer than expected. (Translation: too bad, so sad.) He did finally cut $100 off the bill, but the damage had already been done. My first impression of this company is either they intentionally misled me (which I doubt) or that they are extremely bad at estimating the time a project will take. I had planned to have this company do the dyno work on the engine after I get all the other items done. I don't think that will be happening. We shall see.

I now have a pair of custom pipes that cost almost as much as just buying the completed Gas-N product, and i still have to get them polished. The polisher does excellent work, but has a reputation for being erratic on his billing. Similar pieces will have wildly different prices for no appearant reason. These custom Flowmasters are going to be a very expensive option. They had better sound great!

I drove the car for two hours on Thursday afternoon. I wanted to see if I could tell a difference. I could tell a major difference right away. They are much more smooth, much more quiet, and have removed all the harsh high end. They really are a very significant improvement over the FFR stock pipes. So I am moving beyond my first impressions by learning to like the look because I like the sound mitigation qualities. I am having to let go of my first impressions on how they look and focus on how they sound, which is Excellent!" Solid and powerful, yet they don't scream "look at me, I am having a midlife crisis"!

Next week I will have to take them off and turn them over to the polisher. He claims he can get them done in a week. I wonder if that means the week before Christmas?!!

I now wish I had just bought the Gas-N's. Education has it's price tag.

wareaglescott

12-16-2017, 07:20 AM

Glad you like the resulting sound. Those things are heavy! I would encourage you to take a look at how I supported them up at the front as well. I think it is a good solution to help support the load.

GoDadGo

12-16-2017, 07:28 AM

Congratulations On Getting So Far, So Fast With So Many Over The Top Modifications!

Also, I do really like the look of the length of those pipes.

They just seem to finish out the car.

Jazzman

12-23-2017, 01:04 PM

There are days that you just feel more connected to this FFR family. The day you order your kit, the day it is delivered, the day the motor starts for the first time, the first drive . . . and the day the car breaks down on the side of the road and you get the ride of shame home on the flatbed! Yesterday was one of those days!! But I am getting ahead of myself.

Three days ago I took a very nice 60+ mile drive. The car behaved beautifully, except for one minor issue. It died while I was stopped at a stoplight. I didn't think I had let off the clutch and stalled it, but the engine just stopped. I attempted to restart it quickly to no avail. (Note to those thinking about a pushbutton electronic ignition system. If the engine dies, you have to turn the car completely off and back on before you can engage the starter. Not a huge deal, but a surprise.) I pushed it to the side of the road, hopped back in, and it fired up. Ok, somehow the Jazzman must have screwed up. No harm, no foul. Drove on home with no further incidents.

Just before I got home, I decided I should fill up the tank. Last time I filled up I really topped off the tank and had some overflow problems, so this time I stopped at the first click of the pump. The last time this happened, the problem went away as soon as I had driven the car just a bit and the fuel tank was not completely full. When I got home, I could really smell gas, and this time it was dripping significantly from multiple locations. It dripped from the tip of the body just behind the DS rear wheel and from multiple places at the center of the gas tank plastic cover. It did not leak on PS or from the Fuel pipe inlet.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78136&d=1514044929

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78137&d=1514044931

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78138&d=1514044932

I pulled the cover off the fuel pump, no leaks evident there.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78135&d=1514044927

I pulled the cover off the fuel level sending unit. It was engulfed in fuel! Ah Hah! Problem found (I hope).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78141&d=1514044991

After installing the fuel pump, I put liquid gasket around the edge to seal it. For some reason that I cannot now remember, I did not put the liquid gasket material around the fuel sending unit. Now I just had to seal the fuel sending unit. But before I can seal it, I have to get all the fuel out and stop it from continuing to leak. Because the PS side of the tank is taller than the center area where the fuel sending unit is, the fuel continues to leak until the fuel level is below the level of the sending unit. I attempted to siphon out some of the fuel, but I could not get my siphon hose into the fuel in the tank. Is there an anti-siphon screen welded into this tank? So I have to drive the car to get some of the fuel out. Well that's not a bad deal is it!!

It is really cold here right now. The low was 36, and the high was 56. (Yes, I know, you folks from the northern climes are laughing at me. Go ahead, bring on the flames!! I need the heat!!) My blood freezes up at about 72, so I decided I had better drive at the "warmest" part of the day. Yesterday was my bride's 60th birthday. I took her out to breakfast, then a girlfriend was going to take her to lunch and they were going to get their hair and nails done. I was throwing a big birthday party for her at 6pm. I had about three hours while she was gone. I put on my best "Nanook of the north" outfit and headed out into the bone chilling cold. (Ok, perhaps that's a stretch, but it makes the story better!!) I drove for about 10 minutes when I came to a stoplight. The tach dropped to zero, and the car died. I know I didn't slip the clutch this time. 20 tense seconds later, I got the car started again, and took off. About two minutes later, the tach dropped to zero again, the engine died, but this time, it fired itself up. I suspect it was because we were moving and the car effectively "push started" itself. I decided it was time to turn around and head home. The car died several times on the way home, usually but not always as I was slowing down to stop at a stoplight. On the 6th stall, and the 2nd push off the road of the day, the car died for good. Each time I would reset the ignition, I pushed the button to engage the starter and the entire electronic ignition would turn off. I tried to start the car multiple times, but it would not even turn over. I called AAA to get it towed home. It is now 3:30.

WarEagleScott was kind enough to entertain me via text message while I waited for the tow truck. My "breakdown" turned into a car show as no less than five cars and two police cars stopped to see the car! They all offered to help, but there wasn't much to do but wait. Many took pictures, one little boy wanted to sit in the car.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78140&d=1514044936

4:45pm. The tow truck arrived. The driver loved the car. More photos. He loads the car up and we finally head home at 5:05pm. Home is only about 7 minutes away. At 5:25, the car is finally safely unloaded into the garage. I had just enough time to get ready for the party and head out the door.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78139&d=1514044935

Abby (my puppy) woke me up at 5:45 this morning. After taking care of her, my next thoughts were "what is wrong with the car". I turned on the ignition again, this time checking to see if there is fuel pressure. Nope. No pressure at all. I checked the fuel pump fuse. It's in good shape. I check the rollover switch. It doesn't seem to be disengaged. All the gauges come to life when the ignition button is pushed once (Correct). They all go off when the ignition is pushed a second time (Wrong). I don't hear any noise from the fuel pump. Either the pump is dead (unlikely on a full tank after just 500 miles) or it is not getting power. Power is engaged when the Watston's Streetworks ignition button is pushed the first time. Why do the gauges come on but the fuel pump does not get power? Problem with the Watson's Streetworks ignition box? Perhaps, it has happened before. I had a problem before with the fuel pump, when I crushed the wire when I installed the windshield. I thought I fixed that, but perhaps something broke in that area? When I last had fuel pump problems and found the crushed wire, the car would turn over but was not getting fuel. This time it is getting no fuel and will not turn over. Point of intersection? The ignition box. What else can I check?

networkcrasher

12-23-2017, 01:20 PM

Time to break out a multimeter and check voltage at the pump as well as look for a short to ground. The fact things just completely shut off makes me think there's a short and the electronics are turning off to protect themselves.

Jazzman

12-23-2017, 04:13 PM

You are reading my mind. I did pull out the multi-meter. No juice at all at the fuel pump, no pressure at the fuel pressure gauge. I turned the ignition system on and off several times. Most of the time it was the same old thing. The last time, however, I heard noises that seemed to come from the engine bay. It sounded like it was trying to start, but did not engage the starter. I am not sure what all those noises might have been. I went back and checked the power at the fuel pump. Nothing. Then I checked the fuel pressure gauge: It had clearly been pressurized, but was falling by that point. It was at about 42psi and falling. Within a minute, it had fallen to 20psi. Thus far, it has not done this again. There is clearly some sort of a short somewhere. I am going to crack into the upper footbox to see if I can find a loose or broken wire or ground somewhere.

I checked the feed from the ignition module out to the ignition input on the coyote PDB. No power with ignition off (good), no power on first push to awaken the system (good), 12.6 volts when the button is pushed and held as if to start the car. (seemingly good).

networkcrasher

12-23-2017, 04:32 PM

edwardb

12-23-2017, 05:15 PM

Does the coyote not attempt to start the engine if there’s no fuel pressure? Did you check voltage at the pump connector with the pump disconnected? I wonder if there’s voltage with it disconnected. And you checked the fuel pump fuse with the multimeter? Voltage on both sides of that fuse?

No, the Coyote doesn't sense fuel pressure. But if the Ignition Relay Trigger wire in the Coyote pigtail (#5, light green) doesn't get +12V with the key on, the PCM isn't going to call for the fuel pump to run. If there is +12V on the trigger wire, the pump will be powered briefly and shut off until the Starter Motor Request (SMR) in the Coyote pigtail (#3, light blue) gets +12V, initiating the start sequence. Fuel pressure will bleed off pretty quickly if the engine isn't started immediately. So that's not necessarily a concern.

Assuming there are no blown fuses and the inertia switch isn't tripped, the Ignition Relay Trigger wire is the first place I'd look. The wildcard here though is the Watson's Streetworks box, which I believe from previous discussions, is where this trigger voltage is coming from.

Jazzman

12-24-2017, 12:20 AM

I removed the dash (yes again!!) and looked around for anything surprising. I checked grounds. I checked the fuel pump wires. I rechecked the inertia switch. All looked fine. I tried to fire up the car, and . . . voila! it fired right up. Fuel pump pressure is holding nice and steady at 58psi. I let it idle for 15 minutes to see if it would die. Nope. I shut it off and restarted it. No problem. I tried both key fobs. No problem. Hmmm. This is a double edged sword. I'm glad it is running, but I had not found anything wrong, which means it is likely that it will occur again.

I returned to the Watson's ignition module. I checked every wire, every connection as far as I could go to make sure it was tight and well sealed. All looked fine untii this one:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78153&d=1514091310

I am not sure how or where this got crimped or rubbed, but this just doesn't look right. The insulation on the wire is partially scraped away, and the wire is partially exposed. It is near to some exposed aluminum under behind the dash, so It could ground out. This is one of the three wires that runs from the ignition module to the ignition button. Watson's instructions don't say exactly what that wire does, but it clearly is important. I clipped it to repair the damage, and the car would not start. I reconnected it solidly and then zip tied it to the other wires to keep it from further abrasion. Once again, the car fired right up. I hope that I have eliminated that problem. I guess time will tell.

While I waited for the car to stop running unexpectedly, I did some testing of the effectiveness of the "internal heat shielding" on the Flowmaster mufflers. It turns out it works very well. I tested three times, but only took photos once. Each time the results were basically the same.

First I checked the temp of the headers just outside the engine. The photo just happened to catch the temp going from 289 to 293.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78151&d=1514091277

Next I checked the surface temp of the Flowmaster Mufflers:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78152&d=1514091298

Yep, that says 80 degrees. I was shocked! I very carefully touched the muffler with my hand. It was about the same temp as my body. I checked again after the engine had run for 15 mintues, and the results were still quite impressive. The Flowmasters never got above 125. I drink my tea hotter than that! I don't know if these results would continue after a very long drive at higher RPM's, but clearly something inside these mufflers are doing a good job of holding the heat inside.

I could finally return my attention to the original problem, the fuel sending unit leak. I hoped that I had used up enough fuel to allow the sending unit to be removed. I took off the retaining ring and found that the fuel was just low enough not to come out. I found that the rubber O ring that was supposed to seal the sending unit to the tank was there and was not cracked, crimped, or broken, but it wasn't sealing either. I carefully cleaned everywhere around the hole and on both sides of the sending unit. I applied liquid gasket maker to the underside of the sending unit, installed the unit, then applied it the outside of the retaining ring "just in case". I will let that dry for 24 hours before I try to drive the car again. I hope that will end my problems with leaking fuel!!

wareaglescott

12-24-2017, 07:17 AM

Sounds like a productive day with good results. Hope that fixed the ignition problem.

Straversi

12-24-2017, 10:03 AM

And you made it to the party on time! Well done. Car and relationship saved.
Those AZ winter evenings are no joke. It can get down right crisp with a chance of chilly. It's been so cold in Los Angeles recently that I've had to wear long pants in the garage. Seriously.
-Steve

Jazzman

01-08-2018, 12:24 PM

I have found I can't reach the emergency brake when I have my safety belts on. So I have two choices: 1) Don't wear the safety belts, or 2) replace the emergency brake. Given these two options, I have decided to jump in with both feet and order an E-Stopp Electronic emergency brake actuator. (https://www.estopp.com/product-page/e-stopp-standard-kit) I read about it in other posts, and those comments were generally positive. Hopefully I will never need it! I hope I can get it into the tranny tunnel area now that the tranny is already in place. THis could be fun. Any comments about your experience with this piece would be appreciated.

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 12:03 AM

Had a great day at the Barrett Jackson auction today. Great weather: sunny, 72 degrees, light breeze. Had nice conversations with Tony Zullo and Ryan Valin. Spent some time with AZPete. Good People!! Perhaps its just the first day of the show (auction starts Tuesday) but it seems like there are fewer cars. There are still a very large number of cars to be sold, but it seems the tents are not quite as full as previous years. It also seems that there are fewer "ultra high end" cars. The scarcity of cars combined with the improved economy might make for higher sales prices this year. It will be interesting to watch. I am not a bidder this year, nor am I a seller. Just a spectator this year. There is still PLENTY to see! Want an armored personel carrier? They've got one. A 150mph racing cigarette boat? Check. Lots of the standards like corvettes, camero's, mustangs. A pleasantly surprising array of Porsches. More late 60's/early 70's Bronco's than I have ever seen at the show. Want a Fox body mustang? They have two full rows of them! I still think the best thing you can do for a Fox Body mustang is tear it's heart out an put it into a Factory Five! Seeing two rows of them only reinforced that opinion.

Other than just enjoying the show, I had only one thing I was looking for was a four post lift that will fit in my large but somewhat oddly shaped garage. The front 1/3 of my garage is "normal" height, and the back 2/3rds has a 2' raised ceiling Because of the garage door, the opener, and the opener track, my max height for any posts is 88". The rear of my garage has a 4" tall stepped up area about 20" wide. Therefore the level floor maximum length is about 182", accounting for the curve area in the garage door. Every four post lift I have looked at thus far is either too tall or too long, or both. Usually too tall. I finally found one that seems to check all the boxes: A Direct-Lift ProPark 8S (http://www.directlift.com/Four-Post-Lift-Pro-Park-8S-Standard-P44C9.aspx). It has a max post height of 83", maximum total length without the approach ramps of 176". Their "show special" includes two 33" metal approach ramps, four plastic drip trays, one metal jack tray (no jack), and four wheel caster kit. They are asking $2279, and offering $200 off of shipping or a $200 discount if I pick it up. I can pick it up on my new trailer. (More on that in the next post.) Has anyone purchased this unit? Are you pleased with it? Any reservations?

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 12:35 AM

I have been planning to buy a trailer for some time, and finally pulled the trigger a week ago. I purchased a Quik-Load Trailer (https://www.kwikload.com/). Check out the video at the bottom of the first page. This thing makes loading any very low vehicle a piece of cake! The bed is the ramp, and it is only a 14 degree angle. I can drive FlipTop right onto the trailer, open the doors without hitting the fenders, and do the whole load in less than 3 minutes! It really is slick. It has locked storage boxes for tie downs built right into the bed, built in floor lighting, four built in "D" ring tie down points, built in brakes, the works. I did not spring for the fibreglass rock guard. I will build one of my own out of diamond plate.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79285&d=1515949234

Jeff Kleiner

01-14-2018, 09:21 AM

...Because of the garage door, the opener, and the opener track, my max height for any posts is 88"...

Kevin,
Barrett-Jackson is always a good time and makes for a fantastic car show! Sounds like you have a 7' tall overhead door which are generally only used these days with an 8 foot ceiling height. What does your garage measure floor to ceiling? Nine feet or more has been most common the past 20 years or so and if this is the case with yours the garage door tracks can be retrofitted to a "high lift" configuration that brings everything up closer to the ceiling which would gain you additional height and open up options for some of the taller lifts.

Cheers,
Jeff

wareaglescott

01-14-2018, 10:47 AM

I was going to suggest looking at a high lift opener as well. That is what I have. It is great and keeps things out of the way of the lift.

That trailer is really slick! Never seen one like that.

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 12:20 PM

Kevin,
Barrett-Jackson is always a good time and makes for a fantastic car show! Sounds like you have a 7' tall overhead door which are generally only used these days with an 8 foot ceiling height. What does your garage measure floor to ceiling? Nine feet or more has been most common the past 20 years or so and if this is the case with yours the garage door tracks can be retrofitted to a "high lift" configuration that brings everything up closer to the ceiling which would gain you additional height and open up options for some of the taller lifts.

Cheers,
Jeff

You would think so, wouldn't you. You are partially right. Here is a photo of my garage ceiling:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79292&d=1515949849

The front part of the garage ceiling is 8'5" tall. Directly above it is the slanted exterior roof. (Reference the new photo on Post #950) I considered raising this, but it is just too cost prohibitive. The back half of my garage is 9' tall. Quite useable. Between the two is a massive beam that holds up the entire 2nd floor of the house. It is only 8' tall, and is clearly not going anywhere. I do have a couple of minor options. I am going to replace the garage door opener and track down the center with a wall mounted, axel driven garage door opener. This will eliminate that junk and free up quite a bit of additional vertical space.

There is a bit of additional space between the garage door and the beam. The garage door needs to be serviced anyway, so am going to have the tracks extended about 5-6" to snug the garage door right up against the beam, getting it as high as possible. I am also going to add windows in the garage door for better light, but that won't help the vertical height.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79287&d=1515949235

Finally I am going to remove those shelves attached to the beam to open up a bit more vertical space. It's not much, but it's all I can do with what I have.

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 12:26 PM

Now a pop quiz: How do you know that you are in Scottsdale and it is the third week of January, Barrett Jackson Week? When you go to Costco and park your Ford truck next to a McLaren!! Now THAT's a grocery-getter!!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79289&d=1515949236

(And doesn't my truck look nice parked next to it!!!)

JoeAIII

01-14-2018, 12:35 PM

I sense a pattern developing in your color choices.

Both the roadster and the truck are lovely colors! my first three vehicles (4 red so far total) were various reds as well.

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 01:04 PM

FlipTop's base concept has always been "a modern interpretation of the Shelby Cobra". I have never been focused on making her "period correct". I wanted to update the look to fit current high end automotive standards. She didn't start out to be a show car, but that die was cast when I decided to put an amazing Candy paint job on her. She is simply breathtaking in the sun. The problem is that the interior, while certainly a fine first attempt for me, did not really rise to the same level as the professionally applied paint. While FlipTop was still at the body shop drying and hardening, an old friend of my painter dropped by the shop. Scott is the owner of one of the very elite custom upholstery and automotive interior design houses in Arizona. He absolutely loved FlipTop. He told my painter "I want to do that car!" My painter encouraged me to give that interior some "Next Level $#!t". After I got the car pretty much put together at home, I realized that the car is very good, but could be better. I decided to at least talk to Scott about what he might want to do to it.

As soon as I met him, I had the same level of absolute trust in him that I have in my painter. His resume of prior projects reads like a Who's Who of the automotive world. He has done cars for SEMA, award winners all over the country, cars for athletes and movie stars, done Lear Jet interiors, everything custom and original. And "He WANTS to do my car"!! Wow. He told me "I want to have my name associated with your car". That's quite a compliment for a first time builder. We talked for a while about ideas, and I told him I needed to run this over with my wife. He was absolutely supportive of me doing that. No high pressure at all. I went home, talked to my bride, and she was unequivocal: "Absolutely . . . YES!" She agreed that the interior didn't keep up with the exterior, and we really should "finish strong". So on January 2nd, I delivered FlipTop to Scott's shop for yet more finish work. I won't give away all the secrets yet, but here is the laundry list of item that he will do:

-- Completely new Dash (the Zebrawood is still in, but . . . more on that later)
-- new transmission tunnel console
-- Custom designed seats
-- New (working!!) fully hidden stereo with controls discretely mounted in the console
-- A custom grille in the oval radiator hole in the front of the body
-- New Black Bentley Carpet
-- Modified gas pedal, possibly custom brake and clutch pedals
-- Custom covers around the door hinge arms
-- Custom lighting in the cockpit
-- Carpeted Trunk with some additional custom work
-- At least three, perhaps four, hidden compartments
-- Custom Door trim

I am sure there is more, but that's enough for now. I stopped by a week ago, and this is what she looked like. The pipes are off because Scott took them over to the polisher for me. So he wouldn't have to re-fit the doors, he removed them by just pulling the hinge pins. The bolts never moved, so the doors should fit perfectly as soon as he remounts them.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79291&d=1515949239

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79290&d=1515949237

Jazzman

01-14-2018, 01:16 PM

I sense a pattern developing in your color choices.

Both the roadster and the truck are lovely colors! my first three vehicles (4 red so far total) were various reds as well.

Yes, you are right! For years I had silver cars. I think four in a row. When I went to buy my next car, my wife said I could get any color I wanted, but no more Silver!! Now my painter wants to repaint my truck to match FlipTop! I don't think so!!

JoeAIII

01-14-2018, 02:07 PM

Yes, you are right! For years I had silver cars. I think four in a row. When I went to buy my next car, my wife said I could get any color I wanted, but no more Silver!! Now my painter wants to repaint my truck to match FlipTop! I don't think so!!

One thing I remember my father mentioning regarding the color of a new car he was looking at was "but I have already had one that color”

That has stuck with me regarding color and make/model. So far I have had 4 red, 3 grey, 3 black, 3 blue, 1 white, 1 green and at least one I am forgetting. All spread across continents and market segments.

Now back to your regularly scheduled amazing FFR build!

AZPete

01-14-2018, 02:15 PM

Kevin, when you told me last week that FlipTop was in for some upholstery work, I was hoping it was being done by Unique because that are absolutely the best in AZ, or perhaps the USA. I was very glad yesterday at Barrett-Jackson when you said Unique had FlipTop in their shop! And, your new trailer is absolutely an ingenious design that makes me say "why didn't I think of that?" because its so logical. Thanks for the time at Barrett-Jackson on Saturday and seeya Tuesday.

After seeing your McLaren @ Costco pic, I went to Costco and saw this car in a Handicap spot!! Yup, it's Scottsdale in January.
79310

Jazzman

01-29-2018, 12:41 AM

The interior is coming along. Like all other aspects of the build, progress is slow but steady. After the original interior was removed, they sent the entire car out for two minor projects. I could have done both myself, but in order to stay on schedule and in the queue for the interior work, we decided to just have a shop do them.

The first was the installation of an EStopp electric emergency brake. I wished I could have gotten some photos before they took the car off the rack because the work is great. They custom made brackets to hold the EStopp unit. They bolted the front of the unit to the front bolt of the transmission support rack. The back sits on top of the Transmission support rack. It is entirely above the major frame rails, and nestled neatly into unused space. They painted all the brackets gloss black before installing the unit permanently.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79970&d=1517202487

This is the best I could get from the top:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79971&d=1517202488

They also rewired the gauges on the dash to add quick disconnect plugs. When that was done, they removed the gauges and sent them out to have the lights changed to red LED's. Not sure if the faces are being changed or not. No photos of this.

When the car returned to the upholsterer, he filled up the hole left by the removal of the hand operated emergency brake. Black Bentley carpet was installed all around. This carpet is so much nicer than the stock stuff. Thicker, tighter weave, very durable but quite soft to the touch. On all future projects, I am going to install this Bentley Carpet the first time around!! Highly recommended.

They stripped the stock seats and installed sheet metal on the entire backrest.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79974&d=1517202844

Heavy duty foam was reinstalled on the seat and back. I was shocked to feel how much additional legroom was provided by this modification. The back of the seat feels much more solid, and I am sure that I picked up a full two inches of legroom. The seats are reinstalled using the same 1.5" steel supports under the front of the seat to tilt the seat back just a bit. I am sure that I would have picked up 3.5"-4" of legroom if I had not tilted the seat back. For those of you who are tall and and want to get every inch of leg room, my upholster would be willing to do your seats in similar fashion. PM if you are interested. The added leg room is so significant for me that if it had been just a bit further back, I would not have been able to fully depress the clutch. It is much more comfortable now. When I arrived to check out the progress, he had me sit in the seat and put an additional layer of foam in the lumbar area. This really made the seat comfortable.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79973&d=1517202489

He has stripped the leather off the transmission tunnel cover, and drew an approximate shape of the console that will be added.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79972&d=1517202488

wareaglescott

01-29-2018, 06:43 AM

Seat are looking good Kevin. Can't wait to see the finished project! Couple more weeks??

AZPete

01-29-2018, 06:13 PM

Oh no! I wish I had not read what they are doing to your seats because now my 818 seats feel tight. Maybe I'll drive it into Scott to see what he can do. He did part of my dash about a year ago and it was fun seeing eye-popping jobs in the shop. Yeah, that's it . . . I'll also get to see FlipTop in the shop!
Kevin, I won't take any photos because I don't want to leak anything before the unveiling.

Jazzman

01-30-2018, 01:39 AM

He did part of my dash about a year ago and it was fun seeing eye-popping jobs in the shop.

Yeah, it was pretty humbling when I was there Friday to have my first project surrounded by so many amazing custom cars (and a boat!!!) that exceeded the value of my car many times over. I definately would recommend letting him take a look at your seats. The improvement in my own was truly unexpected and very significant.

Jazzman

01-30-2018, 02:24 AM

Seat are looking good Kevin. Can't wait to see the finished project! Couple more weeks??

Two to three. I hope. But you know how artists are. It could take longer (and with my luck, it will!!)

japollon

01-30-2018, 09:28 AM

Can you provide more detail and pictures of the EStopp installation and set up? How is it activated? Does it use the ebrake cables from the kit? Thanks, Joel

Jazzman

01-30-2018, 02:37 PM

I can't provide any more photos at the moment, (That's all I have!!) but I will do so when I get the car back and up on a lift. It is activated by a nice chrome electric push button switch (included.). It connects to the ebrake cables from the kit. In my case, they just connected into the adjustment block I already had where the cables were attached to the old ebrake handle. Sorry I can't give you more photos now.

Jazzman

02-10-2018, 12:13 AM

It's been two weeks since I have had time to go down and see the progress on my new interior. Boy was it worth the wait!! First the broad over view:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80653&d=1518238734

It is clearly a radical departure from what I had done before, but I love it. I like the symmetry, the uniqueness.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80659&d=1518238737

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80655&d=1518238735

That dash is a 1" thick slab of solid Zebrawood!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80658&d=1518238737

And to really blow your mind, the solid slab is bent at each end to follow the lines of the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80652&d=1518238734

Jazzman

02-10-2018, 12:26 AM

The console is an amazing piece of art. It is formed from 6 layers of material bonded together, routed, shaped and formed, and then cut on a longitudinal angle to form the angled shapes you see here. All the switches are angled slightly toward the drivers seat. The zebrawood insert is shaped to fit into the custom console, but sized to float in the center of the space. Red lights will be installed below this insert, and when turned on, the light will shine around the edges of the insert to light up the inside of the console. All the switches will be ringed in red. All the gauges have been retrofitted with red LED back lighting. The angled circle in the center of the console will hold the clock.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80657&d=1518238736

Aft of the console is a recessed area about 7/16" deep that will comfortably accomodate two cell phones. It will be covered in a non-slip material a bit like suede.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80656&d=1518238736

Aft of that space will be another console, but I will wait to share that until it is built and I can show pictures.

On the floor there will be a heel pad installed on both DS and PS. That is zebrawood under the plate with the circles in it. If you look closely, you can also see that they shaped the floor just a bit to make it flow more naturally from the upper level to the lower one, and from the sides and frame rails to the center. It is not yet permanently installed, thus the small space.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80654&d=1518238735

Straversi

02-10-2018, 12:58 AM

Very cool. That's some serious woodwork! Hope to see this car in person some day.
You must be pretty excited.
-Steve

wareaglescott

02-10-2018, 07:14 AM

Very cool Kevin! Are the white areas on the console staying white or getting some color or covering of some sort?

Boydster

02-10-2018, 09:18 AM

That looks amazing.

WIS89

02-10-2018, 10:10 AM

Kevin-

GREAT decision to have your interior work done -- or redone I guess... It is going to be outstanding, and really match the quality of the rest of your build!

I really look forward to seeing more progress soon!! You must be stoked!!

Regards,

Steve

Jazzman

02-10-2018, 12:52 PM

Very cool Kevin! Are the white areas on the console staying white or getting some color or covering of some sort?

The white panel that is flat on the tunnel, and the grey trim piece on top of the console will both be wrapped in the same black leather that the seats will have. The white portion of the console, and the brown recessed section on the tunnel where the cell phones will sit will be covered in a black suede-like material.

herb fraser

02-11-2018, 02:19 PM

Oh man, I can sympathize with you. Did the same to my left index and middle fingers about 20 years ago, also with a dado. Those suckers will really grab the wood and take you with it (right through the knuckle while doing so). Please don't be the dumb a$$ that I am though---10 years later I did the same two fingers :mad: My wife's response when I called her from the hospital..."Again?".

Sincerely wishing you a speedy recovery.

Jeff

Yep I done the same thing same type of cut twice 25 years apart DA

TexasAviator

02-11-2018, 09:45 PM

jazzman, unreal, myfriend unreal. Absolutely the dream dash. I have had the same idea about using wood fro the dash but getting those bends on the end seems to be the tough part for me. Just amazing to see this coming together for someone. I hope to execute something similar in fiberglass, mdf, and lots of bondo LOL

Mark Eaton

02-11-2018, 11:47 PM

Kevin,

Wow. Your car is starting to look European...;)

Jazzman

02-12-2018, 02:24 AM

Kevin,

Wow. Your car is starting to look European...;)

You have a good eye! I/we are drawing influences from supercars and other high end interiors. There is a bit of Lambo Aventador, a bit of Mercedes, a bit of Porsche, and a lot of American artistry in there! (And there are still some really neat surprises yet to come!!)

Yama-Bro

02-12-2018, 01:27 PM

Wow. That dash is amazing. Is it going to be stained a certain shade, or is that the way it will be? It's going to be stunning with all the red lights. Good work!

David Hodgkins

02-12-2018, 05:05 PM

Incredible.

I mean just... wow.

Jazzman

02-13-2018, 01:19 AM

Wow. That dash is amazing. Is it going to be stained a certain shade, or is that the way it will be? It's going to be stunning with all the red lights. Good work!

Thank you! Currently the plan is to use some type of oil finish with UV protection. It will not be stained, but it will have a much richer color. We are trying to find the clearest oil finish available so as not to change the color any more than we have to. Many oil finishes are about the color of honey and add that honey color to whatever they seal. We are wanting to keep the natural wood color as best we can. Not exactly an easy task.

Jazzman

02-13-2018, 01:28 AM

Incredible.

I mean just... wow.

I'm going to choose to take that as a compliment! :cool: Thanks! Now you know how I felt watching your Trojan progress.

AZPete

02-13-2018, 10:27 AM

Awesome!! I've heard they are the BEST, but I'm still amazed at their design creativity.

Jeff Kleiner

02-13-2018, 12:57 PM

Jazzman

02-14-2018, 12:16 AM

Full disclosure---I am not a really fan of wood dashes in these cars but man, there is no denying the craftsmanship and creativity that has been put into this interior! That is some incredible work :)

Jeff

I understand, wood dashes are not for everyone. Lets face it, with my car, there are a myriad of reasons to not like it if you prefer a more traditional look. That's ok. I like the traditional look. I like creativity. I pretty much like all of them!! I hope that in the end you will appreciate the completeness of the creative concept. But even if you don't, I still appreciate you and have the ultimate respect for you! :cool:

Jeff Kleiner

02-14-2018, 08:18 AM

I understand, wood dashes are not for everyone. Lets face it, with my car, there are a myriad of reasons to not like it if you prefer a more traditional look. That's ok. I like the traditional look. I like creativity. I pretty much like all of them!! I hope that in the end you will appreciate the completeness of the creative concept. But even if you don't, I still appreciate you and have the ultimate respect for you! :cool:

Don't take that wrong Kevin...I already appreciate the craftsmanship and creativity. When I look at art it doesn't necessarily have to be something that I want in my own living room for me to be blown away by the talent that made it!

All the best!

Jeff

Jazzman

02-14-2018, 10:31 AM

Don't take that wrong Kevin...I already appreciate the craftsmanship and creativity. When I look at art it doesn't necessarily have to be something that I want in my own living room for me to be blown away by the talent that made it!

All the best!

Jeff

Absolutely no offense taken! We are on exactly the same page. You have very eloquently expressed exactly the truth . . . I wouldn't want them all in my living room either! (Parking would be just too limited, and my wife would have a fit having to dust them all!! :cool:) Have a great day my friend!!

Jazzman

02-17-2018, 02:06 AM

Another weekly interior progress report. The dash is coming along nicely. The opening for the gauges have been chamfered, and the gauge mounting itself is done. Here is the semi-finished look:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81084&d=1518850363

The gauges "float" in the opening in the wood dash, surrounded by red LED lighting. Here is how the gauges are mounted. LED lighting is added all around this plexiglass mounting frame to bath red light around each gauge from the back side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81086&d=1518850364

The console around the shift lever is similarly lighted from the back side. Note the red accent stitching around the edge of the console.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81091&d=1518850367

The tunnel top is now covered:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81090&d=1518850366

next up is the door sills. The goal is to completely hide the speakers under the doors and add lighting and wood accents under the door.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81089&d=1518850366

Top view of the door sill:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81088&d=1518850365

The area around the wood accent will be backlit with red LED lights. This photo shows light coming through the frosted area around the wood accent.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81087&d=1518850365

It will be two weeks before I can get back to see further progress. I am speechless now! I can't imagine what I will see next!

Straversi

02-17-2018, 02:16 AM

I like the champfered gauge openings. I was wondering why they used such a thick piece of wood for the dash. Now I know. Cool stuff.
-Steve

2bking

03-19-2018, 01:57 AM

Any updates on that fantastic interior? I've been drooling for a few weeks on the last post.

Chris @ Forma

03-19-2018, 05:38 AM

Jazzman

03-19-2018, 10:04 AM

Any updates on that fantastic interior? I've been drooling for a few weeks on the last post.

Well . . . There are a number of reasons for the absence of updates. Family and personal responsibilities is the first. Over the past two months I have: Built a very large set for a local High School theatre production, helped my youngest son buy his first home, seen my eldest son get the next step in his career, cared for my wife and her family before my mother in law "graduated", planned and spoken at her "Celebration of Life" service, helped my son's girlfriend buy her first car, and taken my younger son on his first "professional" business trip. In the midst of all of that I have been spending a little time (but very little) trying to get my trailer ready to take FlipTop over to Huntington Beach. I have ordered a custom Serpent Express trailer cover to go on my trailer. I had hoped this would be done before the trip, but it is looking more likely that I will not get this project done before HB. FlipTop is still going, but she may not have the cover on the trailer. My son and daughter in law move into their new home in two weeks. I will be spending most of the Easter weekend helping them move and tearing down a wall in their new home. Time is running short.

The primary reason that you have not seen any updates on the interior is that we are experiencing an unavoidable delay in the fabrication process. I had a very candid conversation with the owner of the company a week ago. Nothing had been done on my project for a couple of weeks. The fabricator that was working on FlipTop had "needed" to take some personal days off to take care of "some family issues". After two weeks gone, the fabricator informed the owner that he was quitting effective immediately. The owner pleaded with him to at least stay long enough to finish fabrication of my project and the one other one that he was working on. The fabricator agreed, and said he would be in on Monday. He did show up on Monday, only to inform the owner that he had changed his mind again, was collecting his tools and quitting immediately!

The owner had already been searching for his replacement, but fabricators with this level of skills and creativity are very hard to find. He did finally find two of them, both from other states, and both with the ethics to give their current employers a proper two week notice. I believe that one of the new fabricators starts a week from today, and the other one starts the first of April. When they arrive, they are going to be tasked to FlipTop immediately.

The owner has been absolutely great through this entire frustrating process. While nothing is happening on the interior, He is going to take the car back to the painter for a final "mirror" polish on the paint, then take the car to have the clear bra material applied to protect the front end and the rear wheel fenders. By the time this is done, the new fabricators should have arrived, and he will get back on my interior. He is very well aware that my project absolutely must be completely done by April 25th. This is an absolutely hard deadline. Not completing this project is not an option. FlipTop is going to HB, and she will be perfect!

I am just a bit sad that I can't be driving FlipTop right now. March is the best month of the year to be outdoors here in Scottsdale. The weather is perfect for driving with the top down. My decision to do this interior has prevented me from taking her to two car shows. My son calls these "First World Problems". He's right. There are more important things that cars, interiors, fabrication, and car shows. I have been able to focus my energy on the most important people in my life. An now. . . I'm exhausted!!!

Jazzman

03-19-2018, 10:17 AM

Absolutely amazing work. I will be in Scottsdale in January and hope we can connect so that I can see it in person. I'm curious about your push buttons on your center console. Are you using latching push buttons? or do you have some sort of chassis control module to work do the magic for you?
I can't wait to see this in real life.

Chris

Thank you. I hope that your presence in Scottsdale in January means you are coming back to the Barrett Jackson Auction. Yes, I would be most honored and pleased to show it to you. I came by your booth this past year at the Barrett Jackson event, and you do some beautiful work as well. I would not have expected that i would like lime green it these cars, but it really works in your car!

The push button switches are Watson's Streetworks. They are mostly latching switches. The light switches and the emergency brake switch are all latching type, the horn is momentary, and the ignition switch is a multi function switch provided by Watson's specifically for their ignition system. I know there are a lot of knock-off switches that look the same, but these seem very nicely made. They are solid aluminum houses, not plastic, and the led lights for the rings are bright enough without being blinding. They aren't cheap, but they work well. You can set up the LED light ring to be on all the time, or to come on only when the switch is on.