Andrew & Tamra's 818SR EM Autox Hybrid Destroked Long-Rod Build

[Mechie3]

The perplexing part is, we just installed brand new tires, which meet the Factory Five "recommended" size for the front - 215/40/17. Our wheels are 17x8, et 45. We did not expect any rubbing with this much smaller size. It barely clears the edge near the side sail (and I mean barely), and definitely rubs the splash guard at full lock.

I've found that a lot of features on this car are built with extremely close clearances that don't line up with the actual manufacturing tolerances making it difficult to fit fit even correct parts. Dan noticed it with this engine cover interfereing with the roll hoop and the stock seats barely fitting with the cross brace. Others have seen the transmission lever hit the mesh.

Front splash guard might be there to prevent rocks from being thrown at the fiberglass with the opening there to allow for light bulb changes? I don't remember what my front splash guard looks like.

[matteo92065]

How about the rear inner fenders? Do yours rub too?
I've moved mine around enough to conclude that the original intended shape will never clear at full compression.

I also modified my front inner fenders to clear 235/40R17 lock to lock (unlimited).

The sheet metal in between front wheel and headlight does help stiffen the bumper fiberglass a little bit. There is one fastener. It would be a lot easier to work on the front head lights (aiming and bulb changes) with out that sheet metal. I think Aloha (?) left his off, but put in a single fender strut.

[AZPete]

Tamra, I used yoga mat to block off the headlight buckets and still enable access to the lights. See post #4 of this thread:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?17034-wheel-wells

[Tamra]

Matteo, do you have photos of how you modified yours? Is it similar to Eric's?

We are definitely going to add a bumper support brace separate of the sheet metal. It doesn't seem like the sheet metal would do much to support it anyway. I could definitely see that splash guard piece blocking some rocks from the bumper though... do you think this would be necessary to protect the bumper, or just nice to have? Does anyone know if FFR races with the splash guards in place?

I haven't started on the rear inner fender liners yet. Matteo, you aren't giving me much hope that they'll work either :)

Mechie, I think your splash guards are the same as ours. I used your photo to help figure things out (thank you). Have you found that your tires rub too?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9077-Mechie3-s-818S&p=191961&viewfull=1#post191961

[Mechie3]

My car is still sitting on a dolly with snow tires. :(

[Tamra]

Tamra, I used yoga mat to block off the headlight buckets and still enable access to the lights. See post #4 of this thread:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?17034-wheel-wells

Thanks for that, AZPete! Great idea! Hm, so you experienced star cracks... more thinking to be done.

[matteo92065]

Matteo, do you have photos of how you modified yours? Is it similar to Eric's?

I haven't started on the rear inner fender liners yet. Matteo, you aren't giving me much hope that they'll work either :)



No photos of that area, I'm too embarrassed. I was so sick of that area rubbing (front tire) that I took a cut off wheel and hammer to it. Its actually not that bad, but still not a bragging point.

For the rear inner fenders; I'd like to see how you address the front mounting point, the rear mounting point, the cut-out for the shock, and show how your tires clear at full compression. You (and Mechie, AZPete, and others) always seem to find more elegant and cleaver ways of doing things than I do.
For now I cut the shock access larger, and am pulling up the inner fender up with safety wire. I'm not sure of a permanent and cleaner solution yet.

[Tamra]

The rear wheel wells are done. We only worked on them last Thursday and then again last night (out of town all weekend).

We clamped everything in place and then put a jack under the hub. This is at max static compression (started to lift the car off of the jackstand), with a little over 1" of travel left on the shock.It's obviously hitting the splash guard on the upper link on the left of the photo, and looks like it would hit the camber adjuster on the right if the car were to bottom out the shock (which it does at autocross).
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/140DAB7D-EC02-4E89-AA9C-A33B79950644_zpsabjfwpge.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/140DAB7D-EC02-4E89-AA9C-A33B79950644_zpsabjfwpge.jpg.html)

Markings are where we cut out for clearance:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/1B076469-EC79-4251-BB65-64C399151808_zpsoqz06ugm.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/1B076469-EC79-4251-BB65-64C399151808_zpsoqz06ugm.jpg.html)

Installed:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/A2892D1C-7972-4BDB-BCC8-C58CA8FD7A90_zps8mfomoqz.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/A2892D1C-7972-4BDB-BCC8-C58CA8FD7A90_zps8mfomoqz.jpg.html)

Matteo asked for how we attached the front and rear mounting points. We simply just riveted them. Note, the aluminum on the rear point does overhang the fiberglass - it's like the angles are slightly off. However, I was able to rivet across the entire length. Here's a shot of each from when I did the passenger side tonight:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/A54B3B56-4583-463B-8D63-F64EAC97A0F9_zps1nplmtor.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/A54B3B56-4583-463B-8D63-F64EAC97A0F9_zps1nplmtor.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/2D481A11-6D85-4ABC-8972-1607881131CA_zpsiwww2dcv.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/2D481A11-6D85-4ABC-8972-1607881131CA_zpsiwww2dcv.jpg.html)


The fronts are still a work in progress...


We also adjusted the ride height up about 1/2" on all 4 corners. We needed to, since the car was sitting at just under 4", and the rules specifically state it must be at least 4".

[Tamra]

We worked on the rear decklids today. They seemed like they were sitting at uneven heights compared to the side sails, so we took some measurements. The depth along the side sail varied, so we marked it on tape and then measured against the decklid.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/CB43AED2-8287-4B9A-9B59-FDC11B3F36B7_zpss01zx2dc.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/CB43AED2-8287-4B9A-9B59-FDC11B3F36B7_zpss01zx2dc.jpg.html)

The tape line is the cut line to get the decklid to sit level with the edge of the side sail.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/B71993A5-FFE0-41D3-BDE0-E6913F54D946_zpshwamvm54.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/B71993A5-FFE0-41D3-BDE0-E6913F54D946_zpshwamvm54.jpg.html)

Took the cutoff wheel to the body panels:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/9E3C4457-53F5-4AAF-AB44-DA85945BCA70_zpselgjww1z.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/9E3C4457-53F5-4AAF-AB44-DA85945BCA70_zpselgjww1z.jpg.html)


Before:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/CD82D1FB-0A00-4966-902D-DD7CF63DC0ED_zpsc8pc46na.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/CD82D1FB-0A00-4966-902D-DD7CF63DC0ED_zpsc8pc46na.jpg.html)

After:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/9BF3DE0B-3F95-4228-9F35-D194065050A8_zpsgy3yrnij.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/9BF3DE0B-3F95-4228-9F35-D194065050A8_zpsgy3yrnij.jpg.html)

Same thing with the rear lid. It was sitting very high.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/1C9B080E-BC15-4CA0-8CAA-1119A9352397_zpsx74pio4q.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/1C9B080E-BC15-4CA0-8CAA-1119A9352397_zpsx74pio4q.jpg.html)

Much better
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/FE4A7E04-14EA-4AC0-8384-B7AD9AB81BFD_zpsyaxtxldz.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/FE4A7E04-14EA-4AC0-8384-B7AD9AB81BFD_zpsyaxtxldz.jpg.html)


Items left before going to the DMV:
decklids - hood pins and hinges 3
Balance tires 1
E-brake cover 2
license plate light 0.5
Other small finishing touches that we are forgetting right now 2
Hours remaining: 8.5 hours


Lots of items after the DMV, especially around ducting for cooling and cutouts for airflow.

[Pearldrummer7]

Man you guys are making some awesome progress! Best of luck at the DMV!

[brian b 36]

tamra i was reading the regs from dmv i think you need parking lgts on the left and rt side behind the rear wheels in red with refector built in i took one out of a 01crv and mounted if you look on my new build thread sec pic you can see them

[brian b 36]

ps if you want to sell the wiper kit after inspect i will take off your hands for the sec build im doing

[Tamra]

Thanks Brian! I believe FFR provided the red reflectors in the kit. Thanks for the reminder - we'll make sure to stick them on before we head to the DMV.

Not sure on the wiper kit yet - I'll let you know.

[ben1272]

Progress is looking great! Do you think you will drive it on the road much? How do you like the way the car drives? How do you think it compares to your Miata and S2000?

Thanks for taking the time to share everything!

-Ben

[metalmaker12]

I made wipers work almost two years ago.

[Tamra]

Progress is looking great! Do you think you will drive it on the road much? How do you like the way the car drives? How do you think it compares to your Miata and S2000?

Thanks for taking the time to share everything!

-Ben

Thanks Ben! We are planning to street drive it on good weather days (no top means no driving if there is a chance of rain!). We will have to report back on how it is for street driving, but in terms of performance driving, the car is a lot of fun. I had a chance to drive a Z06 this weekend at autocross, and I would say the 818 is more fun to drive in an autocross setting (although if I had never driven the 818, I would have probably had my mind blown by the Z06). The 818 is lightweight, very nimble, very powerful, and it handles exceedingly well. It is easier to drive than an S2000 but with a ton more power. Not much can beat a Miata in the handling department and ease of driving- the 818 will always take more concentration to drive with its rear weight bias. It's a super fun challenge and I love it. I can't wait to get it back out racing.

I expect that for street driving we will find our lightweight flywheel a little tiresome in traffic, combined with the very touchy throttle response. Our race seats will probably get uncomfortable for long drives. The stiff suspension might be a little rough on Connecticut roads. I don't think the lack of power steering will be an issue, as we haven't had any problem navigating parking lots at autocross :) The manual brakes are great at autocross but I'll have to wait until we are street driving to see if I notice anything in terms of daily drive-ability. I imagine it could get old that anywhere we go it takes 20 minutes to get out of the car due to the swarm of people asking questions. ;)


I made wipers work almost two years ago.

We aren't planning on running wipers, so didn't put much effort into research or modification. Just bolted on the FFR ones and spaced up the hood. If we decide to run them permanently, we'll look into your thread for a solution!

[Tamra]

Going to the DMV on Friday. Please wish us luck and keep your fingers crossed!

Vanity plate name ideas - any votes?

BLT-IT, HANDBLT, HND-BLT, FFR818, BUG818, AUTXR, ATOXR, CONEDIT, CONEKLR, WHEEEEE, HP-WT


Also, there are definitely a few more things added to the list that we are going to fix after the inspection. One is the rear hood pin for the rearmost decklid is too long. Andrew will fab a bracket, but for now it shouldn't cause an issue for inspection. The engine cover/decklid combo is not long enough to reach the doors - will do fiberglass work to add about 1/8" to even out the gap to the door. Front splash guard solution is still TBD.

We also had to add spacers for the license plate lights so they will light up the license plate.

Only things left are the center console e-brake cover which Andrew is going to bend tomorrow and we'll install tomorrow night, balance the tires (already mounted), check height of the headlights (must be 22") and further adjust ride height if necessary, solder in license plate light wiring, look over everything to make sure we have things secured every 18" or less, wash car. Hopefully things will go smoothly and we'll be at the DMV on Friday!

[Scargo]

DMV so sucks. How about TNA-818?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

DMV so sucks. How about TNA-818?
I don't think so. TnA could mean something else.

[Hendow]

You can't have FFR 818...

Ive already got it!

43714

Best of luck at the DMV!

[STiPWRD]

Good luck, how about OEM-LOL? Otherwise the first 3 you had are winners

[Pearldrummer7]

Mine is going to be (NY plates) LOLDOORS

It was available last I checked. Don't steal my idea, R guys!



Good luck you two!!

[Tamra]

I don't think so. TnA could mean something else.

I'm guessing Glyn means exactly what you're thinking :) Sorry Glyn, that one isn't going to be a winner! Nice try though.


Thanks everyone!

Things are winding down and we are definitely going to the DMV on Friday.

We made the e-brake cover, painted it, and riveted it on. Our center console is finished for now (later we will add trim rings for some finishing touches).

The ride height is finalized for inspection purposes. Adjusting the coilovers alone wasn't enough - the headlights were under the required 22" (closer to 21") and the frame was 3.75" off the ground in the front (minimum 4" required by the DMV). We had been using the R-hole for the upper shock mount, so we dropped it to the S hole and we are now at 5" in the front and at/above the 22" range for the headlights. Our ideal final height will be 4" all around on street tires, but we will have to play with the shocks some more (and they were getting very difficult to adjust using the FFR tool so we'll probably buy a better solution).

The only thing on the list for tonight is to solder in the license plate light wiring, take a drive around the neighborhood to make sure things feel good, give everything a look over, and then clean up the car a bit. Tomorrow we'll pick up the trailer and get the 818 loaded, and then Friday plan on arriving at the DMV bright and early.

There are a few things that could be potential issues at the inspection (whether front bumper qualifies as a bumper, a few lights on the dash we haven't chased down and cut the wires for, etc.), but we'll keep our fingers crossed and hopefully they'll pass us.

[brian b 36]

tamra if you fail for something small we are about 15 mins from dmv and have plenty of tools just stop bye 175 kelsey st newington 860 982 3477

[Tamra]

tamra if you fail for something small we are about 15 mins from dmv and have plenty of tools just stop bye 175 kelsey st newington 860 982 3477

Thanks so much Brian! Be prepared for a phone call from us on Friday morning, just in case.

[Scargo]

I love double entendres. Good luck guys.

[Tamra]

Couple of preview shots of Bug

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/59CA512B-0696-478E-9BD8-451FEF414332_zpsriffm8jt.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/59CA512B-0696-478E-9BD8-451FEF414332_zpsriffm8jt.jpg.html)


http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/FF533607-C156-44BA-85D0-308B1B3535E3_zpsm9mnc1ov.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/FF533607-C156-44BA-85D0-308B1B3535E3_zpsm9mnc1ov.jpg.html)


Also, I did some googling today and found a few other things that we *might* encounter during the inspection. These are not on the list of items for composite vehicles, but they are things that Cobra owners and other kit cars have had to do. They include an alignment check for too much toe in or out, an e-brake check by letting out the clutch to see if it will stall the car, and accelerating, taking your hands off the wheel, and braking to make sure the car brakes straight. Considering we raised the ride height, hopefully it did not throw our alignment too far out and we will pass. We did a quick drive around the block tonight and everything felt good.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Looking great Andrew and Tamra.
We are a week or so behind you.
Good luck Friday.
Bob and Mike.

[the_tool_man]

My favorite plate is ACCELR8. Since we don't live in the same state, you have my permission to use it.

[Pearldrummer7]

Too bad ACCELR818 is too long :(

[Tamra]

The final 3 for voting are:

43789
43790
43791


Place your vote before 8am and the one with the top votes (between FFR and facebook) will win!

[Pearldrummer7]

Mine is 100% on Xler818. It is a joke that will fall flat to most, but the few people who get it will get quite a laugh out of it I think.

[JAubin]

XLER818 is definitely the best, love it.

[Oppenheimer]

+1. You could also do XLR818.

Perfect inside joke. Non-FFR car guys will still recognize the XLER8, and they are used to car names that use 3 numeric digits, so they'll mostly figure it out. The non-car people, well who cares. Let them google it, or be confused.

[Oppenheimer]

Your latest photos have given me an idea. Can you get a photo of Bug with the Miata on one side, S2K on the other? That would give people that have never seen an 818 in person a recognizable scale to go by. Ideally the photo would from an angle that somehow gives a sense of scale of how the 3 compare to each other.

You could then caption the photo with the weights, and HP, of each. You are in a unique position to take this photo with these well known Japanese topless sports cars to compare with.

[Tamra]

We even corner weighed the S2k and the Miata, so we have true comparisons we can do. I'll try to get comparison photos soon.

You guys are all voting for XLER818, but Facebook is putting HANDBLT in the lead by a pretty strong margin right now. Keep the votes coming! I personally like both of them a lot - XLER818 is super clever, but HANDBLT does a pretty good job of representing all of our hard work. I'll be happy with either of them, and which ever one takes 2nd place will probably go on the plate at the next renewal if it's still available.

[Pearldrummer7]

Can we cross-vote? Or is that cheating? :p

[flynntuna]

I'm surprised that "handblt" is still available, here in Ca every variation of that one has been taken. I still vote for XLER818
Though, it describes the purpose of the car. ;)

[Buzz Skyline]

Xler818!

[D Clary]

One of the guys that autoX with us has L8APEX Thought it was a little cool as only people who know will know.

[Tamra]

They failed us for not having a carpeted interior (????????), our hood pins not being grade 8, and they want heat wrap on the exhaust exit. Driving to Brian's now to see about a hinge (they are fine with the hood pins if we have a hinge).

[TouchStone]

How could you forget the carpet? Everyone knows its integral in car safety.

[Hindsight]

That's nuts, BUT, at least they failed you for easy and cheap things to fix! I do admit those items seem quite arbitrary. Do they really have a play-book that requires exhaust wrap, carpet, and grade 8 hood pins (or really anything discussing hood pins)?!

[Tamra]

No, they failed us exclusively for unlisted items. Crazy!!

We are on our way back now with a hinged hood, carpeted interior, heat wrapped exhaust, etc. keep your fingers crossed again everyone!

Thank you Brian and our friend PJ for the help!!

[Tamra]

We passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great news
Are you bringing it to Wilmington Ohio soon?
Bob

[Tamra]

Photo of our hood hinge solution:

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/335A0368-7BEB-4CDB-A6E0-F1AF6E312513_zpsgwi4mnhv.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/335A0368-7BEB-4CDB-A6E0-F1AF6E312513_zpsgwi4mnhv.jpg.html)


Bob, we've got to replace the donor fuel pump now, get in for a tune, and work on body cutouts and air ducting. The car might be registered but it's not done yet!

[wleehendrick]

We passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was a quick fix... Congrats!

[Pearldrummer7]

We passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH! That's awesome. Congrats guys. Which one of you got to drive it home? ;)

[Tamra]

As a bonus, the DMV didn't even charge us tax :) I guess that makes up for all the crazy things they made us do to pass.

We are trailering it home since we both want to be in the car for its first legal drive :)

[metalmaker12]

Congrats

[Hindsight]

Huge congrats!!!!!! Enjoy the first legal drive.

[Frank818]

They failed us for not having a carpeted interior (????????), our hood pins not being grade 8, and they want heat wrap on the exhaust exit. Driving to Brian's now to see about a hinge (they are fine with the hood pins if we have a hinge).

Wow, that's awesome!!! Just that to fix??? That's nothing!! I predict a 3h-fix or so and you should be ok.



We passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What did I tell ya??? lolll

So you went to DMV twice on the same day?? Wow! Well you passed, so to hell DMV, now!!!!! :D

[Tamra]

Hey everyone, we put together a list of our experience with every line item for the Connecticut DMV (their official test list, the composite vehicle requirements list, and the "other" discretionary list). They put strong emphasis on the "other" category and didn't even check some of the significant safety areas (brake lines not going under tension during full lock, for example, or the bumper requirement).

I hope this might help some people. All I know is, we are SOOOOOOOO glad to be done!!!!!!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V1BLFQQwXlaSCjEL7E0_NoczitBY9oHeH6ioBgXiiy8/edit?usp=sharing

For the record, the hinge fix took 2 hours with Andrew and our friend PJ working on it. It required custom brackets and drilling the hood. I bet if we had done it at home it would have been a 5 hour job easily, and finding the right hinges would have been a nightmare (a junkyard at our disposal made this much easier - thank you Brian!). The entire time they were working, I worked on the interior carpet (picked up carpet from Walmart and had to custom cut it for everything). Without PJ's help and Brian offering his junkyard of parts at our disposal, today would not have been possible. We got back to the DMV at 2:40, just 20 minutes before the inspection lane closed. They said we were the first people to ever manage to repair the failure items and return to pass in the same day.

We might have had a worse than average time since the first inspector wasn't sure how to handle our "raised" hood (for our permanent windshield wipers -wink wink-). Since she was questioning it, she brought out the "Sergeant" with knee-high spit-shined boots who was very picky, took his job as safety inspector very seriously, and not the friendliest. Avoid him at all costs. If you can avoid anything really out of the ordinary (try to go for as much of an OEM look you can get), I think things would be smoother sailing.

I still can't believe they failed us for our non-grade-8 hood pins (didn't even notice our super flimsy, riveted together, aluminum L-brackets that were lifting the hood pins up to hold the hood over the "permanent" windshield wipers... pretty sure those would have failed long before the hood pin bolts), yet were totally fine with our hinges being installed with 1/4-20 bolts.... -shakes head-. Don't worry, we'll be fixing this to our level of safety.

But despite all of challenges, we now have a street legal race car!!! Yippie!!! Never to be inspected or emissions tested again. First 818 registered in CT. :)

[Mechie3]

Congrats!

[Tamra]

Thank you everyone. We are still in shock that we now have a street legal race car :)

We still have not driven it on the street yet, as we are heading out to the beach today and then to autocross tomorrow. Since the fuel pump is questionable under heavy load (and our tune was not completed due to this), we are going to have to take things pretty easy and watch the gauges closely. It should be fine for gentle street driving.

The next things up on the list:
- Remove the windshield wipers and the hideous spacers to get our hood sitting flush again
- Make lowering bracket for rearmost hoodpins (too long from FFR)
- Cut out body for air flow (side scoops, hood scoops, etc.)
- Create ducting to intake
- Do some airflow testing on the highway & determine any further airflow needs
- Install Walbro fuel pump from Metros - Thank you!!!!
- Get re-tuned
- Add aero (front splitter and rear ducktail)
- Go autocross again! :)

Winter projects
- Add front fuel cell
- Lightweight battery and re-location behind passenger seat
- Kill switch
- Body work (lots of gel coat cleanup and some areas that need to be built up with more layers of fiberglass - specifically between door and engine cover)
- Partial wrap of body
- Possible suspension mods for more wheel/tire fitment capabilities?

[CU9DZ]

Looks great. I need more info on your front hood hinge solution. What car did it come from? Are there bolt heads showing on the top side of hood or can it be fiber glassed in or epoxy?
Davis.

[Pearldrummer7]

Wait wait, what license plate did we land on???

[Tamra]

CU9DZ - I'll let Andrew respond on that one. I installed the carpeted interior while Andrew and PJ worked on the hinges.

As for the license plate, they made us do a regular one initially and then we have to mail in the vanity plate forms. However, HANDBLT was the winner, with 22 facebook votes, vs 15 votes for XLER818.

Tomorrow is my birthday and I told Andrew I want to take it out for its first legal drive :)


Just for fun, here's how tall the 818 is to the top of the windshield. Looks a little different this way!
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/ED58918B-DCD4-4AB1-8CF7-56077DCD041D_zpsxcxfbco5.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/ED58918B-DCD4-4AB1-8CF7-56077DCD041D_zpsxcxfbco5.jpg.html)

Here's what our interior now looks like. We'll probably keep the carpet on the center console but get rid of it on the sides.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/22E1AD82-EA6D-4F37-9052-2A2EF85D51D2_zpso5sar54b.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/22E1AD82-EA6D-4F37-9052-2A2EF85D51D2_zpso5sar54b.jpg.html)

[xxguitarist]

Looks great. I need more info on your front hood hinge solution. What car did it come from? Are there bolt heads showing on the top side of hood or can it be fiber glassed in or epoxy?
Davis.

The hinges are a ~04 Maxima trunk hinge, flipped around a few times. There are bolt heads showing, with washers, on the outside. You could easily enough use some bonded on nuts pieces to hide the fasteners, but not in the time we had! We will go back and clean things up a bit, make brackets more purposeful, less washer stacks, better hood fit.. but for the time we had, it works brilliantly.

[metalmaker12]

Thank you everyone. We are still in shock that we now have a street legal race car :)

We still have not driven it on the street yet, as we are heading out to the beach today and then to autocross tomorrow. Since the fuel pump is questionable under heavy load (and our tune was not completed due to this), we are going to have to take things pretty easy and watch the gauges closely. It should be fine for gentle street driving.

The next things up on the list:
- Remove the windshield wipers and the hideous spacers to get our hood sitting flush again
- Make lowering bracket for rearmost hoodpins (too long from FFR)
- Cut out body for air flow (side scoops, hood scoops, etc.)
- Create ducting to intake
- Do some airflow testing on the highway & determine any further airflow needs
- Install Walbro fuel pump from Metros - Thank you!!!!
- Get re-tuned
- Add aero (front splitter and rear ducktail)
- Go autocross again! :)

Winter projects
- Add front fuel cell
- Lightweight battery and re-location behind passenger seat
- Kill switch
- Body work (lots of gel coat cleanup and some areas that need to be built up with more layers of fiberglass - specifically between door and engine cover)
- Partial wrap of body
- Possible suspension mods for more wheel/tire fitment capabilities?


You guys gotta check fuel pressure readings. I thought it was my pump when it was in fact the factory fpr not keeping up with the setup of the pump being so close. When a pump goes it usaually just stops, it is possable it just beat to hell, but knowing your pressure is key to getting your tune perfect anyhow. What's your afr at idle and under load, if thats wacky than pressure is off, and a adjustable fpr is needed.

[Tamra]

Metalmaker, the afr at idle is fairly steady at 15, drops to ~11 as rpm's at load. For our first tune, it stayed at 11 all the way to red line, as per this graph:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/818Dyno_zpsf9ebbovj.jpg[/QUOTE]


Then in the middle of our last dyno session (it was fine initially) it started to climb toward 12 as the revs increased and the tuner, Mikey, would back off. Mikey kept adding fuel and it wasn't having it. He even tried going back to the same 15psi as in our first tune and it still wasn't having it. They said they suspect that the pump is on its way out. It's been fine for putting around but we'll watch it closely when we take out on the street tomorrow.

We have a Walbro to put in it soon (thanks Metros!)

[Mitch Wright]

Great work guys, congrats.

[Frank818]

Tamra, when you put your hand on the top of the windscreen's frame (which you can since it's so low! lolll) and push downwards, does the entire windscreen wobbles up and down or is it super solid like the one of the Miata?

Mine wobbles, so anyone entering the car with his hand on the windscreen frame and putting all its weight will bend everything for a second and I don't know if it will break or not.

[Tamra]

Frank- It's fiberglass and not structural, so it does flex. We make sure not to let anyone grab it or lean on it. I'd rather not find out if it will break!


Thanks Mitch and everyone else!!

[metros]

I'm late to the party but congrats on registering it. That's got to be a huge stress relief.

[xxguitarist]

Frank- It's fiberglass and not structural, so it does flex. We make sure not to let anyone grab it or lean on it. I'd rather not find out if it will break!


Thanks Mitch and everyone else!!

More specifically, we tell them to only put their feet on the floor pan, and touch the seat, and use it as a support while climbing in. Big shoulder bolsters help with acting as handles. Easier than pointing at the dozen "no touch" and "not a step" points.

[brian b 36]

tamra first glad you you past on friday , happy birthday:):) and have fun the car is a blast to drive on the street i get lots of looks driving mine lots of thumbs up,
did you have to get a apointment or did you just go to dmv. brian

[Tamra]

tamra first glad you you past on friday , happy birthday:):) and have fun the car is a blast to drive on the street i get lots of looks driving mine lots of thumbs up,
did you have to get a apointment or did you just go to dmv. brian

Brian,

No appointment required - just show up. We got there at 7:30, got in the line, and paid our inspection fee ($80) in the main DMV building. We then trailed over to the little brick building to the right of the main DMV office if you are looking at the front. We unloaded the car in front in the designated area (don't worry someone will be out quickly to see what it is and then direct you where to go). After the inspection, you will get a VIN assignment form from the inspection people (this is regardless of passing or failing). We then went back into the DMV, waited in line, and paid our VIN assignment fee of $50. If you passed on the first try, then you would also probably pay your registration fees at this point too. Since we did not pass, then we went to your place as you know, fixed everything up, and returned for another inspection. The reinspection is free as long as it is within 30 days. After we passed on the 2nd try, they put the VIN on the car, and then we went back into the DMV to pay our registration fee ($130). They did not charge us tax but they were supposed to. Overall it was a long day, since we arrived at 7:30 and didn't get out of there until 5 or so.

On your car, it might be worth trying just the hood pins alone rather than going through the effort of installing hinges (unless you're planning to anyway). They might not be as bothered by your hood pins since your car has the windshield wiper cutout. They were more concerned by our hood pins since the hood was raised, and they were worried that a side draft could try to blow it off or something.

Thank you for the birthday wish :)

[brian b 36]

tamra if you look on the general discussions new pics of my car on the second page, you can see what i did for the rear hood pin

[Tamra]

Thanks Brian! I think our current idea is we are going to make a rear ducktail support (extend up our metal bumper bar) and we will weld tabs onto it for the rear hood pins while we are at it. That way the bracket isn't connected to the fiberglass at all, which should make it less flimsy feeling (not sure about yours, but ours is VERY flexy since it's on the bumper tab).

Also just a heads up that in two weeks the DMV is closing for a week, so you might want to try to get your car in before that. I think our OCD inspection person is out this week on vacation, so you might get the younger, nice guy if you get in this week. I was wishing we had him as our inspector, since he came by and made nice comments on the car and wasn't worried about things like carpeting.

[Mechie3]

FFR sent me steel pieces for the rear bumper as some bumpers had that part accidentally cut off. I just riveted it to the body (3 rivets) so it's not just a fiberglass piece cantilevered out but a steel piece.

[Tamra]

FFR sent me steel pieces for the rear bumper as some bumpers had that part accidentally cut off. I just riveted it to the body (3 rivets) so it's not just a fiberglass piece cantilevered out but a steel piece.

That's what we have - the steel pieces riveted onto the bumper. It's still super flexy, and the tabs also put the hood pin too high. It needs about a 1" drop or shorter hood pins.

[Mechie3]

didn't realize you had those in place. Agree it's still flexible (I put the three rivets in a triangle pattern, though a flattened one) but better than fiberglass on its own. Haven't figured out a long term solution yet.

[RM1SepEx]

I mounted mine down about 3/4 inch with spacers off the fenders vs. the rear clip. I'm going to box it off and stiffen the whole corner when I make my custom trunk.

[Tamra]

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/957578BC-12C5-4253-BF0B-8EBFA5FF4D4E_zps6kv1u4ku.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/957578BC-12C5-4253-BF0B-8EBFA5FF4D4E_zps6kv1u4ku.jpg.html)


We took Bug out for his first street drive last night, to our favorite fish market about 15 minutes away from our house.

First impressions of street driving:
- the car is LOUD. Deafeningly loud. We didn't even get into boost and the noise was still punishing. We do not have anything filling in the hoop area, and with the rear now being closed in, all noise is directed straight into the passenger compartment. We had no idea how loud our turbo spooled until last night :)
- the car is HOT. All air from the engine bay was coming out of the hoops and straight into the passenger compartment. Considering we did not hit boost, our pre-intercooler temps were probably a good estimate for the temperature spilling over us - 140-150 degrees. Post IC was 100. Ambient was 90. We have not cut any vents in the body yet, other than the exhaust outlet.
- the ride isn't as bad as I expected. It is harsher than my S2000 but I didn't find it too uncomfortable. We have the R springs.
- the race seats would get old on a long trip.
- the braking effort is more noticeable on the street, however, we have no problems getting the car stopped (and we know from autox that we can lock it up) - it just requires more effort than a car with a booster.
- 1st gear is VERY touchy. There's so much torque and power available that it makes moving slowly very difficult. I started dropping it into 2nd since it smoothed it out, and the car still had plenty of torque to move at slow speeds.
- considering we did the entire drive without hitting boost, I would think an NA motor would be a hoot in this car. On the street, I didn't find it lacking for power!

Our Forge BPV is definitely leaking under light throttle (cruising at 2-3k) and making a "chu chu chu chu" noise that we can hear from the passenger compartment. The Gopro amplifies it and makes it sound terrible. It is possibly robbing some efficiency from our turbo, so we will be looking into it. It is not noticeable at idle or under load.

[mikeb75]

Congrats on so many levels getting the car registered, streeted & driven to the market! Hugely impressed with the efforts both of you put into the car -the result is inspiring.

Can't wait to see what else you do to 'finish' your build (First rule of build club; you're never finished)

[Tamra]

Congrats on so many levels getting the car registered, streeted & driven to the market! Hugely impressed with the efforts both of you put into the car -the result is inspiring.

Can't wait to see what else you do to 'finish' your build (First rule of build club; you're never finished)

Thank you!

Don't worry, our build is just beginning. Now we can make it the way we want! We have lots of exciting things coming over the next year :)

[STiPWRD]

Very nice guys! Great pic btw

[Erik W. Treves]

The other I noted, since I had my car done when it was cooler out...the rake of the windshield does not allow for air to come into the cockpit like it does in the cobra, so sealing off the engine compartment is a must....in cooler weather and in rain the air passes nicely OVER the driver...making seat heaters VERY effective... I drove very comfortably down into the 40's this way... and yes the car IS loud if you have a loud bypass and a "performance muffler".... I ended up doing a XS BOV that recirculated and it was WAY better....just an observation...

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Great job Tamra and Andrew.
I cant wait to see what you have in mind for the next year.
We also have a long wish list after we get registered. Michael wants too get the second car to the same level as the first before we start the list.
Bob

[Tamra]

Very nice guys! Great pic btw

Thank you!


The other I noted, since I had my car done when it was cooler out...the rake of the windshield does not allow for air to come into the cockpit like it does in the cobra, so sealing off the engine compartment is a must....in cooler weather and in rain the air passes nicely OVER the driver...making seat heaters VERY effective... I drove very comfortably down into the 40's this way... and yes the car IS loud if you have a loud bypass and a "performance muffler".... I ended up doing a XS BOV that recirculated and it was WAY better....just an observation...

Who needs a seat heater when the passenger compartment stays a pleasant 110 degrees? ;p

We are hoping that when we open up the vents in the body that it will allow some of the noise to escape. We are planning on sealing off the engine compartment, but the aluminum panel provided by FFR doesn't seem to fit properly, so we will have to make something. Our Forge BPV is currently hooked up as a BOV and it is fairly loud (and also leaking). Since the car is tuned for speed density it doesn't really matter other than for turbo efficiency, but we are going to look into getting new springs for it to fix the leak and possibly recirculating it as well if we can't get the noise down. You have some good ideas that we will keep in mind - thank you!


Great job Tamra and Andrew.
I cant wait to see what you have in mind for the next year.
We also have a long wish list after we get registered. Michael wants too get the second car to the same level as the first before we start the list.
Bob

How far along is the other car, Bob? I vote you guys work on this one until autocross is over for the season (have some fun!) and then start on the next one. Learn as much as you can and then apply it to the other one!

We will be in Wilmington, OH this weekend for the SCCA Pro. Will you guys be there? We're not bringing the 818 yet. Maybe next year :)

[Bob_n_Cincy]

How far along is the other car, Bob? I vote you guys work on this one until autocross is over for the season (have some fun!) and then start on the next one. Learn as much as you can and then apply it to the other one!

We will be in Wilmington, OH this weekend for the SCCA Pro. Will you guys be there? We're not bringing the 818 yet. Maybe next year :)

Hi Tamra,
The second 818 is a bare frame with suspension, wheels, brakes and steering. We tested it over a year ago rolling down a 2 mile hill.

We have about 8 to 10 autocrosses on blue. Learned a lot. Trying to sort out suspension/handling with the new big tires.
Tomorrow we are going to TIC to get an alignment. Hopefully get it registered next week. Goal is for Michael to drive to high school in a couple of weeks.

We are an hour south on I71. We will definitely show up to cheer you on this weekend. Maybe get some time to sit down and talk some 818 strategies.

I will PM you with our phone#.
Bob

[Mechie3]

We are planning on sealing off the engine compartment, but the aluminum panel provided by FFR doesn't seem to fit properly, so we will have to make something.

I assume you mean the fact that it sits about 1.5" back from the front of the humps instead of flush like you'd expect it to?

[xxguitarist]

I assume you mean the fact that it sits about 1.5" back from the front of the humps instead of flush like you'd expect it to?

Yep. That.

Also not really sure what to attach it to? It's slotted to be installed from the bottom.. but doesn't have any tabs?

I think we'll probably make it install attached to the engine cover, with some slots for the tubes as necessary.

[Mechie3]

Its a two part assembly. I bad some pics in my build thread. I'm planning to eventually cut the lower portion so it can all slide forward.

[K3LAG]

Tamra,

This picture shows both pieces cleco'd together in place. There is an L shaped piece that goes across the bottom. It's made in two pieces because it won't fit if you try to put it in already assembled. There is also a length of bulb seal across the top of the aluminum that helps seal it off where the bulkhead meets the engine cover.

44045

Larry

[Tamra]

Thank you - the photo is very helpful. We'll take a look into that next week when we are back from Wilmington. I saw that lower piece in our basement and was wondering what it was for. We have a few others though... maybe I should post some photos and have you guys help me identify them.

It should be a fun weekend - heading up to OH in the morning for the SCCA Wilmington Pro Solo. Since I switched cars part way through the season, points are on the line for me to ensure that I qualify for the finale (nationals). I won my 1st and only event in the car, so hopefully I can do it again, or at least do well enough to get the necessary points. I think it's pretty neat that I got two mentions in the recent Solomatters article: http://www.solomatters.com/tune-in_2015_tire_rack_wilmington_summer_prosolo. This is my first season doing national level events, so perhaps I'm overly excited about everything :)

Tim and Andrew should be all set after this event, since it is their 3rd in the same car and they will have met the requirements for first wave of registration for the pro finale. Nationals is only one month away!

[Frank818]

Congrats on first st drive! Impressions are exactly as I expected, except for the ride comfort, I was expecting harsher, which is a good news.

[Harley818]

good luck at Wilmington. Car looks great too.

[Hindsight]

This is my first season doing national level events, so perhaps I'm overly excited about everything :)

I wouldn't say that at all..... competing in anything at the national level is quite an accomplishment. Good luck and keep us posted!

[Tamra]

Successful weekend. Andrew and Tim are qualified for nationals, and I took 2nd in my class (only .025 from first!), which qualifies me and also gives me a chance at the overall if I do well at Nat's.

Also got to meet Bob and his son Michael and talk 818 strategy. They have some pretty cool ideas and I'm excited to see how they go.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Successful weekend. Andrew and Tim are qualified for nationals, and I took 2nd in my class (only .025 from first!), which qualifies me and also gives me a chance at the overall if I do well at Nat's.

Also got to meet Bob and his son Michael and talk 818 strategy. They have some pretty cool ideas and I'm excited to see how they go.
congratulation on your qualifications.
Great to meet you guys in person.
Bob and Mike

[Tamra]

Here's one of my favorite runs from the Pro last weekend. It didn't count for a time because I red lighted, but I still really enjoyed this run since I went all out, knowing I had nothing to lose. I need to drive like this when I do have something on the line.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KMOjSPmrjc

Sneak preview of fun things to come with the 818...
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/manometer_zpsg6g7rwqy.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/manometer_zpsg6g7rwqy.jpg.html)

[Tamra]

Do I spy.... vents?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/EA90D56F-2337-4A6E-8A16-A516EF285839_zpsswn08vyk.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/EA90D56F-2337-4A6E-8A16-A516EF285839_zpsswn08vyk.jpg.html)

Do I spy... a relocated Cobb intake that will soon have ducting?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/F4EDD78B-5546-417D-A7F8-D312F5C895C8_zpsvppphz9w.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/F4EDD78B-5546-417D-A7F8-D312F5C895C8_zpsvppphz9w.jpg.html)

[metros]

More pics of your side vents?

Those pictures really show how much space there is over there. May reroute my intake over there.

[RM1SepEx]

Tamra, you really want/need these

44246

[Tamra]

Metros, I'll get some more shots this evening for you.

Dan, are those Mechie's? If so we are planning to place an order for a bunch of his vents after we perform airflow testing.

We are going to use the manometer I posted in the previous post to perform some airflow testing on the car. It should give us data for where vents need to be, if vents are pulling air in or out, and how effectively the vents are working. We also have some thermocouples on the way so we can measure relative air temperatures in different zones of the car.

[Tamra]

Stock Subaru vs... Non-Stock Subaru?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/8AD61A87-7F67-49D9-B029-394EDA996B5D_zps5pmgiz8r.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/8AD61A87-7F67-49D9-B029-394EDA996B5D_zps5pmgiz8r.jpg.html)

[305mouse]

looks just like my Outback. I'll save you the trouble, it's a lot slower, lol.

[Hindsight]

Question for you.... how did you route your AWIC coolant lines from front to rear? I looked through some of your older pics but couldn't see anything.

I have been planning on routing one down each side of the car. Now that I'm laying the hose out and test fitting everything though, it is a very tight fit where the flexible metal coolant pipe goes through the front firewall at the lower sides. There is just enough room for the 3/4" heater hose to fit along side the coolant pipe it but it is in full contact and I'm concerned about heat transfer between the engine coolant pipes and the AWIC rubber lines. I don't know that heat sleeving would even help much. I thought about running them down the center tunnel instead.

[Tamra]

Hey Metros, I didn't forget about you. I snapped some photos of the intake area tonight.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/983584D7-9417-4C36-9814-1AA0CE710D18_zpswpvghub7.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/983584D7-9417-4C36-9814-1AA0CE710D18_zpswpvghub7.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/DD57F064-21B9-4B0A-8401-EA86F2461E7D_zpszx8oxsew.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/DD57F064-21B9-4B0A-8401-EA86F2461E7D_zpszx8oxsew.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/EC2F6C9F-5790-4A7C-86DD-BAE72B92EEE8_zpsnhrppmso.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/EC2F6C9F-5790-4A7C-86DD-BAE72B92EEE8_zpsnhrppmso.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/837570F4-CA89-436A-A6D8-5C390CF91953_zpsmfxvo3hr.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/837570F4-CA89-436A-A6D8-5C390CF91953_zpsmfxvo3hr.jpg.html)


Also, we went ahead and ordered a new fuel pump. The Walbro you sent us (thank you again) unfortunately had a cracked fuel outlet. It wasn't visible until we pulled the rubber hose off, but the hose had some weird crimping thing in it that crushed the plastic on the pump. We decided it wasn't worth the risk and picked up a DW300 that is due this week.


Hindsight, we routed the feed and return line for the AWIC on the passenger side of the car, running right along side the feed line for the radiator. So far we have not experienced any problems with heat soaking the AWIC coolant. However, our AWIC coolant temp gauge starts at 100 degrees, which is not very valuable information (although we have never seen it go over 100, which is an indication that we aren't getting too much heat soak). We have a new gauge we are installing in the next week or two that will show down to 60 degrees.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/E069BD8F-A408-498D-B7D3-F8E88E21F7C8_zpsdfcfhdar.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/E069BD8F-A408-498D-B7D3-F8E88E21F7C8_zpsdfcfhdar.jpg.html)

[metros]

Sorry to hear about the fuel pump. Glad I didn't sell it to someone on NASIOC.

Thanks for the extra pictures.

[Tamra]

Sorry to hear about the fuel pump. Glad I didn't sell it to someone on NASIOC.

Thanks for the extra pictures.

It was really nice of you to send it to us - thank you again. Let me know if you need any additional photos.

I started mocking up some air ducting with cardboard tonight. The idea will be to block the filter from sucking in the hot air from near the turbo, and also direct the cold air entering the side vent to pass over the filter. It won't be fully air tight but hopefully it will help. We may also end up cutting the side vent significantly larger, but we are waiting to do some testing first - hopefully this weekend!

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the pics Tamra. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing on the heat soak.

[C.Plavan]

Just an FYI- I tried that location for the intake. It got too hot unfortunately. Maybe you will have better luck if you surround it.

[Tamra]

Thanks for the heads up, Chad. We will put some thermocouples around the air filter and see what we are getting while driving.

Hindsight, we should have more precise data soon that we can share, but the best I can say now is that after 60 minutes of autocross runs (actual run time) spread over a few hours, our gauge never left its pegged out location, meaning the awic coolant never exceeded 100 degrees. That included quite a bit of time idling in grid, which should have made it worse due to no airflow.

[Tamra]

We replaced the fuel pump last night. That is NOT a fun job in the car. You can't fully access it from the engine bay, so we ended up cutting an access hole in the firewall. Our seats are a real pain to remove, so we wanted to avoid removing them and the firewall if possible.

It looked like the old one had a very very small leak, just based on some griminess.

It is not an easy task to get tools in that location to spin the plate free, but we eventually got the old one out using a 3' long 3/8 ratchet extension, the cup end, to hammer the ring free. We spent a very long time trying to get the new pump in. The larger sock made things difficult (had to bend it while forcing it through the hole), and then the sock was hitting the bottom of the tank before the pump was all the way in (bigger sock than before), so we had to twist the shape to the side a bit. We can't tell if the sock is even still in the small baffle area, not that the baffles do much anyway. We ended up ditching the rubber gasket and siliconed it down thoroughly, which should get rid of our leaking problem.

Overall, what a pain. I'm looking forward to our winter install of a front mounted fuel cell.

Next up: install air box surround. I'm using plasticore for initial testing at least. Anyone see a problem with this? I don't think it gets too hot in that space.

After that: Make front splitter and rear ducktail. We are thinking alumacore for the front splitter, maybe lexan for the rear ducktail, but still still need to do some more research. Anyone have any good ideas or sources for materials?

[RM1SepEx]

I did the same fuel pump job with the inside firewall removed and had almost the same issues. It's a real PITA... I think that the gasket is weeping at my fuel level sender too, I HATE the stock FFR tank

[Hindsight]

Next up: install air box surround. I'm using plasticore for initial testing at least. Anyone see a problem with this? I don't think it gets too hot in that space.

If you box the filter off in that location, I'd bet money that it will work and draw cool air in. You should use one of those profiler tools to get the contour perfect against the inside of the fender. I see no issues with plasticore as a mock up. I'd consider adding some heat reflection tape on the engine side of it though. What you are doing is exactly what I plan on doing as well (next year when the body is on lol).

[C.Plavan]

This is the location I tried without luck. I didn't want to bother enclosing it, so I just moved it to fresh air into the passenger compartment.

http://i.imgur.com/kcILcrOl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KauCor4l.jpg (Great for me since I dont have passengers :) )

[Tamra]

Hindsight, what would you use for final material?

I doubt it needs to be air tight, since the purpose is to generally direct the air to the filter. Even if it's not perfectly air tight I'm sure it will help a lot! It's a PITA to work in that area as the cross braces and suspension parts are all over the place. Thankfully the plasticore bends so I can get it mostly into place, but my current mock up still has some gaps. I'll work a little harder to close them. We will work on it tonight and test this weekend.

Dan, are you planning to stick with the FFR tank?

[Tamra]

Chad, we will keep our fingers crossed that boxing it off and possibly opening up the side vent more will work. I don't think our passengers would appreciate it in their ears ;) Also, with us having a windshield we don't actually get much airflow where you put yours.

The other option is the same location on the other side of the car. It seems like it might be cooler there. Do you know if your issue was lack of airflow coming through the vent, or heat from the engine bay?

[xxguitarist]

We also have a sheet of white ABS on order, to thermoform an additional exterior scoop for airflow, just need to pick up a cone of the same shape as an autox one to make sure it won't hit it when the rest of the car wouldn't have!

[Hindsight]

Hindsight, what would you use for final material? I doubt it needs to be air tight, since the purpose is to generally direct the air to the filter. Even if it's not perfectly air tight I'm sure it will help a lot!

I'd probably use some aluminum sheet (.063 or whatever the size is for the interior panels). I'd duct tape the mockup together (cardboard or plasticore) and if all was well, would trace that out onto the aluminum and cut it out with a cordless jig saw. I can't tell you how many metal things I have cut with my dewalt cordless jigsaw and a metal-cutting blade. Thick steel, aluminum... all sorts of stuff and it is easy to cut compound curves and straight lines. I'd probably weld the aluminum panels together... even if it's just partial welds. I agree on it not needing to be perfectly sealed.

When you ran your AWIC lines, did you match them to the radiator lines (IE hot on the passenger side and cool on the driver side)? Unfortunately with my setup (degas tank for the AWIC allowing it to auto-bleed) I have to go the other way.

[Tamra]

Both of our AWIC lines are on the passenger side for weight balance, so no hot-cold match up.

The only problem I can see with your plan is the assumption that you can put things in without bending them. I'm currently having to twist and contort the plasticore to get it into all of the locations, and then let it spring back flat once it's in place. Then, bend it again to "seal" things. Aluminum is flexy, but not as flexy as the plasticore. We would have to use a ton of small aluminum pieces in order to get it all in there. The area is a real pain to work in. I'm hoping the area is cool enough to use the plasticore for driving around, which would require riveting it on. What do you think?

[C.Plavan]

Chad, we will keep our fingers crossed that boxing it off and possibly opening up the side vent more will work. I don't think our passengers would appreciate it in their ears ;) Also, with us having a windshield we don't actually get much airflow where you put yours.

The other option is the same location on the other side of the car. It seems like it might be cooler there. Do you know if your issue was lack of airflow coming through the vent, or heat from the engine bay?

I think the radiant heat was getting to it. The header and motor are not too far away, and I have found air circulation to be difficult (thats why I have all the vents now). I put it low hoping the heat rising would not effect it. It did. I could see high intake temps on the Accessport even moving.

[RM1SepEx]

Tamra, Long term I don't see using the FFR fuel tank, just not sure what will work "best" I'd really like a two part tank, a portion in the center tunnel, the rest in front like Bob's. I despise the fuel level sensor location, who makes a tank with that shape and it can't measure a large portion of the fuel load by design!

My air filter is in a similar area, behind my AAIC, I'm going to duct air to it using .050 aluminum with the duct taking advantage of the area over the AAIC. I may add some ducted air from the right IC vent in the engine cover too

[matteo92065]

I semi-strongly recommend you insulate the AWIC lines when they are aluminum and next to the aluminum engine water lines. I took IR pictures of my car after driving and that whole area gets really warm/hot and has very little air flow. The water going through that area is 180F. Your feet & lower legs will feel the heat coming through the sheetmetal from the water lines. You can put your hands on the lower exterior of the car and feel how warm the fiberglass gets.

Its cheap and easy to do now. Insulate and separate by 2"

[Hindsight]

Hmm, I didn't know it was that hard to get to. I would probably partially unbolt the side sail, enough to pull it 10" or so away from the frame in the back, and then add the box. I'd probably glue it to the body instead of rivet since I wouldn't want rivets going all the way through to the other side. The other option would be to glue a short base to the fiberglass that you could then rivet the box to but that would be a pain. I say glue the box in and if you decide to get rid of it, just cut it out with a die grinder leaving behind some remnants of it.... doesn't really matter.

RE using the plasticore permanently.... I agree with CPlavan in that I'd worry about radiant heat in that area. Turbo, header, up-pipe. I'd be afraid that stuff would melt. Might hold up if you glued some reflective + insulative covering to it (like the DEI stuff that has a reflective layer + a thin layer of fiberglass batting followed by an adhesive... I used it on my rear firewall).

[Tamra]

Once we have data to show if our AWIC lines are experiencing heat soak, we will definitely consider that. As of this point, we have not had the coolant heat up over 100 (minimum reading on our gauge), so not MUCH heat soak is occurring.

I agree that it seems like a good idea, but with our body already on, we will see if it seems necessary before going through the effort. I think your recommendation is good for others that don't already have the body on yet... and we will be the guinea pigs to see if it's really needed! :)

Our new water temp gauge should give a more accurate reading of exactly what our AWIC coolant temp is, down to 60 degrees, so we will be able to watch as it heats up.

[xxguitarist]

Our AWIC lines are not in direct (conductive) contact aluminum on aluminum with the engine coolant lines. They are spaced off by two rubber hose thicknesses, so we'd be relying on convection and (air) conduction, not aluminum|aluminum conduction. Both would be easy enough to fix by adding a small vent in the passenger side skirt area, inlet & outlet. Insulation wouldn't hurt, but it wouldn't have huge advantages in a stagnant area either.

[Hindsight]

How did you get the rubber AWIC lines to fit through the small opening in the FRONT firewall (behind the front tire) without directly contacting the flexible steel tubing that carries the coolant through there? I do see that you are using aluminum tubes on the side for both the AWIC lines but in front of that, it changes to rubber for routing through the little tunnel that goes into the front area of the car. On mine, there is no way to provide space in the tunnel between the radiator and awic hoses; it's just too small of an area (and that's with just one metal radiator hose and one 3/4" heater hose per side).

[Tamra]

Hmm, I didn't know it was that hard to get to. I would probably partially unbolt the side sail, enough to pull it 10" or so away from the frame in the back, and then add the box. I'd probably glue it to the body instead of rivet since I wouldn't want rivets going all the way through to the other side. The other option would be to glue a short base to the fiberglass that you could then rivet the box to but that would be a pain. I say glue the box in and if you decide to get rid of it, just cut it out with a die grinder leaving behind some remnants of it.... doesn't really matter.

RE using the plasticore permanently.... I agree with CPlavan in that I'd worry about radiant heat in that area. Turbo, header, up-pipe. I'd be afraid that stuff would melt. Might hold up if you glued some reflective + insulative covering to it (like the DEI stuff that has a reflective layer + a thin layer of fiberglass batting followed by an adhesive... I used it on my rear firewall).

I don't think fiberglass can hold up to much more heat than plasticore does, so if the plasticore melts then I think we have bigger concerns, involving our body panels. We will keep a close eye on it though. It's pretty far away from the header/upipe - at least a foot or more I would say. At least if it melts, nothing disastrous is going to happen.

As for the rivets, they'll only be on the interior stuff, not showing to the exterior, and the plasticore will just be wedged to the outer panels at an angle to hold it into place, not requiring rivets. The glue idea is a good one though.

[Tamra]

How did you get the rubber AWIC lines to fit through the small opening in the FRONT firewall (behind the front tire) without directly contacting the flexible steel tubing that carries the coolant through there? I do see that you are using aluminum tubes on the side for both the AWIC lines but in front of that, it changes to rubber for routing through the little tunnel that goes into the front area of the car. On mine, there is no way to provide space in the tunnel between the radiator and awic hoses; it's just too small of an area (and that's with just one metal radiator hose and one 3/4" heater hose per side).

they touch there for a few inches, which we aren't very concerned about.

[Oppenheimer]

I expect that the vent area is more than large enough to satisfy the requirements of the intake even at redline. Ramair isn't really effective, and especially not at autocross speeds. So no real need for adding a scoop to the side intake. So long as there is a box, sealed well enough so the intake sucks outside air from the vent, and not hot air from the engine compartment, and the box is decently insulated, I think you will be good.

I also expect that the plasticore will be fine, if you add a reflective insulating material. Even something like this Home Depot stuff:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reflectix-16-in-x-25-ft-Double-Reflective-Insulation-with-Staple-Tab-ST16025/100012574

Tape the seams with some foil tape like this, and you will also help further air seal it:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Nashua-Tape-1-89-in-x-50-yd-322-Multi-Purpose-HVAC-Foil-Tape-1207792/100030120

[Tamra]

Thank you! I hadn't thought about the hvac tape. We have some of that already, actually - I'll use it! The reflective insulating material is also a good idea.

[Tamra]

Well, we have a boxed in air filter. It's not pretty, but it's fairly air tight thanks to Oppenheimer's idea of the HVAC tape. I stuck it everywhere.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/F6E9AD2C-4FEA-44F3-819E-A00DBE72C42B_zpsgyl3k2us.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/F6E9AD2C-4FEA-44F3-819E-A00DBE72C42B_zpsgyl3k2us.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/E22AEB7A-C864-4F12-9B34-6651E17F6489_zpshldzz1sl.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/E22AEB7A-C864-4F12-9B34-6651E17F6489_zpshldzz1sl.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/F5F6E68A-6D41-443B-9B11-A8B1EEC4779C_zpsvet21ktm.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/F5F6E68A-6D41-443B-9B11-A8B1EEC4779C_zpsvet21ktm.jpg.html)


And after these photos were taken, I also riveted on a top and stuck some more HVAC tape on it for good measure.

Our Forge BPV springs came in tonight, so we replaced the existing one. Surprisingly, it already had the blue spring, which is the 23-30 psi spring. We wouldn't have expected it to be leaking while driving around at 2-3k rpms... but regardless, we replaced it with the brand new blue spring. We will see how it goes when we drive it tomorrow. We have checked, and the air is definitely getting past the spring area because you can feel it coming out of the vent port.

[Hindsight]

Wow, bigger than I would have imagined. The way I was thinking of it in my head is that it wouldn't even touch the frame. It would be a very small box, barely bigger than the air filter, and would enclose 50% to 100% of the side scoop opening. But there are many ways to skin a cat! Keep us posted on the temps. I bet it works great!

[Tamra]

The thermocouples said ambient was 76, air filter box was 81, and engine bay was 98, while cruising at around 45mph. Pre inter cooler gauge temp read 110 and post read 90.

[Hindsight]

Nice! You have three thermocouples?!

Those results look great, especially with no heat shielding or insulation around the filter box. Nice work!

[Tamra]

We have 6 or so thermo couples :) they aren't expensive. I'll have Andrew post the link in a bit.

Thank you! We are pretty happy with the initial test results. Next up is using the manometer to find high and low pressure zones to determine body airflow needs.

[xxguitarist]

Thermocouple meter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FFYEPVQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
Has two inputs, just swap around plugs as needed. Accurate enough for these uses.

Long thermocouples: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CWA3WEC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00
Extra length really helps with reaching various spots on the car.

Neither is particularly expensive, and very useful for getting good temp data quickly with good response times.

[metros]

Good information here. Thanks for the links to your thermocouple units. Fun to play around with I'm sure.

[Hindsight]

That's good info thanks. Inexpensive enough too.

[Tamra]

We just got back from a long drive, maybe 45 minutes, including some "in town" driving and some highway driving.

The car gets HOT.

Today was 90 degrees ambient.
Our intake at highway speeds was seeing 90 degrees in the box I made, which is great.
The front of the engine bay was around 120 degrees.
While cruising, our pre IC temperature was reading 124 and post was 104.
During a pull with lots of boost :) , we saw pre intake temps of 184 and post of 124. This could definitely be improved (see below for suspected cause).


Unfortunately, our AWIC coolant is experiencing heat soak - it was reading around 115 degrees by the end of our drive.

However, we think we know why: our manometer says we are not forcing any air through the radiators. The pressure differential is next to 0 (-.004) at highway speeds. Next up: Duct air through the radiators. If we aren't forcing air through them, then we are not effectively cooling our AWIC coolant or our engine coolant.

It's probably escaping mostly between the radiators and the hood, and then around the sides. The photo looks a little wavy because I did a panoramic shot.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/DAF30DF9-3D6A-4DBD-BFB9-1066C0B53648_zpsepxep87r.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/DAF30DF9-3D6A-4DBD-BFB9-1066C0B53648_zpsepxep87r.jpg.html)

We are also concerned al ittle bit about our body panels near the exhaust. They are super toasty, even after applying some reflective tape. Is anyone else concerned about this?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/77296DE8-D53E-4133-A309-C22656FD3462_zpsht5eww6n.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/77296DE8-D53E-4133-A309-C22656FD3462_zpsht5eww6n.jpg.html)


Also, our actual AWIC is getting very hot to the touch, so we need to find a way to get airflow over it. We have not yet cut out the trunk lid hole, so that will also be next up on the list.

[Frank818]

Where is your AWIC HE located? If it's in front of the engine rad, then air must be forced through.

Your AWIC cooler is located on the exhaust side (well, in the middle but way too close). Bad place. I will only have turbo air intake in that area (far right side), but it will have air forced through like you and protected from the turbo's heat, like you. But for the other stuff, I will put nothing next to the exhaust.

You could try to put some heatshield panels (alu) above the exhaust. I will have to do that as it's required for registration here, to prevent someone from burning if accidentally touching the hot exhaust, but it will also keep heat at a lower level to escape from the rear bottom opening.

[Tamra]

I know you guys are probably like me and prefer instant gratification, so we went ahead and did further testing today.

First off, the fun part:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_a6xQl1Qi0&feature=youtu.be

I made good use of our plasticor for mocking up the radiator ducting. It was a success. We went from a manometer reading of .007 In-HG without, to between .030 and .050 In-HG at highway cruising with the ducting. We might move the vent side pressure tube down inside the body work for the next test (photo of test setup at end of post).
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/BE52F679-8A62-46A4-8B6B-7BDB2605A39C_zps2lz1srwu.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/BE52F679-8A62-46A4-8B6B-7BDB2605A39C_zps2lz1srwu.jpg.html)


We also cut open the little vents on the side of the engine cover, and the hole in the rear trunk lid. I did not notice any significant engine bay temperature changes from the last test, with cruising temps ranging from 95 on the driver side (vented) to 110 on the passenger side (not vented due to intake box), which is within a few degrees of before.

Our intake temp reading was between 0-10 of ambient.

During one pull we saw 215 degree pre IC temperature, and 129 post.

Our AWIC water temperature maintained 97 degrees for the entire drive. We started at 97 degrees, so this is a big improvement from the last test. I would have liked to see it cool down while driving (ambient was ~84) but at least it didn't heat up any further. However, once we parked and left the car running for a few minutes, it spiked up to 115 degrees, so we are getting massive heat soak at idle.

While cruising, we saw ~115-120 pre IC temp, and 97-99 post intercooler temp the same as the water temp, which is great).

Oil temp climbed to 200 while idling, but was at 180 while cruising.

When we returned to the garage, the thermocouple showed our downpipe was 400 degrees while idling, and the air around our AWIC was 180+. The air around the body panels was also alarmingly warm. Frank818 is absolutely correct.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/35F6CA4C-5A24-4C14-BA46-BA8ABE5CADC2_zps8vyywtmj.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/35F6CA4C-5A24-4C14-BA46-BA8ABE5CADC2_zps8vyywtmj.jpg.html)



It has been on our to-do list to more thoroughly wrap the downpipe with exhaust wrap - it is now a high priority. We will also be adding the reflective bubble wrap that Oppenheimer mentioned to surround the AWIC to see if it helps. We are also going to add fans that keep running while at idle to help with the AWIC coolant temps.


Here's a quick shot of our hospitalized 818 for airflow testing:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/148678FC-44AC-4530-BCB2-D8E5A31A0B84_zpstr4loufg.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/148678FC-44AC-4530-BCB2-D8E5A31A0B84_zpstr4loufg.jpg.html)


Other observations:

My hair smells like exhaust
The passenger compartment was around 99 degrees (vs 84 ambient)
Most of the heat is coming from the center console around the shifter. We are going to work on insulating/sealing it.

[metalmaker12]

Good job guys, it's fun stuff

[Canadian818]

Great info, and very well written. Thank you for your contribution to the community, allows those of us slow builders to plan ahead a little better.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Other observations:

My hair smells like exhaust
The passenger compartment was around 99 degrees (vs 84 ambient)
Most of the heat is coming from the center console around the shifter. We are going to work on insulating/sealing it.

Hi Tamra,
Thanks for your testing. I will reread your post 3 or four times. before I ask more questions.

Why was the center console getting hot?
The only extra cockpit heat we noticed was hitting us in the head when we shut down in the pits.
We expect that issue to go away when we put the aluminum in the humps per FFR.

As soon as I'm street legal, I'll drop on about 8 temp sensors and with a Datag di149 kit. I probably have a couple of those laying around In a junk pile. https://youtu.be/Ll8B4YixCIw

my initial testing will be tainted as we don't have much of our sheet metal installed yet. Bob

[C.Plavan]

I told Ya It gets hot! :)

[bbjones121]

I know you guys are probably like me and prefer instant gratification, so we went ahead and did further testing today.

First off, the fun part:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_a6xQl1Qi0&feature=youtu.be

I made good use of our plasticor for mocking up the radiator ducting. It was a success. We went from a manometer reading of .007 In-HG without, to between .030 and .050 In-HG at highway cruising with the ducting. We might move the vent side pressure tube down inside the body work for the next test (photo of test setup at end of post).
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/BE52F679-8A62-46A4-8B6B-7BDB2605A39C_zps2lz1srwu.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/BE52F679-8A62-46A4-8B6B-7BDB2605A39C_zps2lz1srwu.jpg.html)


We also cut open the little vents on the side of the engine cover, and the hole in the rear trunk lid. I did not notice any significant engine bay temperature changes from the last test, with cruising temps ranging from 95 on the driver side (vented) to 110 on the passenger side (not vented due to intake box), which is within a few degrees of before.

Our intake temp reading was between 0-10 of ambient.

During one pull we saw 215 degree pre IC temperature, and 129 post.

Our AWIC water temperature maintained 97 degrees for the entire drive. We started at 97 degrees, so this is a big improvement from the last test. I would have liked to see it cool down while driving (ambient was ~84) but at least it didn't heat up any further. However, once we parked and left the car running for a few minutes, it spiked up to 115 degrees, so we are getting massive heat soak at idle.

While cruising, we saw ~115-120 pre IC temp, and 97-99 post intercooler temp the same as the water temp, which is great).

Oil temp climbed to 200 while idling, but was at 180 while cruising.

When we returned to the garage, the thermocouple showed our downpipe was 400 degrees while idling, and the air around our AWIC was 180+. The air around the body panels was also alarmingly warm. Frank818 is absolutely correct.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/35F6CA4C-5A24-4C14-BA46-BA8ABE5CADC2_zps8vyywtmj.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/35F6CA4C-5A24-4C14-BA46-BA8ABE5CADC2_zps8vyywtmj.jpg.html)



It has been on our to-do list to more thoroughly wrap the downpipe with exhaust wrap - it is now a high priority. We will also be adding the reflective bubble wrap that Oppenheimer mentioned to surround the AWIC to see if it helps. We are also going to add fans that keep running while at idle to help with the AWIC coolant temps.


Here's a quick shot of our hospitalized 818 for airflow testing:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/148678FC-44AC-4530-BCB2-D8E5A31A0B84_zpstr4loufg.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/148678FC-44AC-4530-BCB2-D8E5A31A0B84_zpstr4loufg.jpg.html)


Other observations:

My hair smells like exhaust
The passenger compartment was around 99 degrees (vs 84 ambient)
Most of the heat is coming from the center console around the shifter. We are going to work on insulating/sealing it.

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing. I also plan to wrap my AWIC, but i was going to tack weld a bunch of spacers (upside down aluminum nails) all over the core and wrap it. I was going to pull some air and duct it into this blanket. i may try to find a small duct fan to run while stopped.

[Tamra]

Good job guys, it's fun stuff

Yes, yes it is!!! The noise, the power, everything is just a blast!


Great info, and very well written. Thank you for your contribution to the community, allows those of us slow builders to plan ahead a little better.

You're welcome! We are just trying to return the favor, since we appreciate everyone who has posted valuable information before us!


Hi Tamra,
Thanks for your testing. I will reread your post 3 or four times. before I ask more questions.

Why was the center console getting hot?
The only extra cockpit heat we noticed was hitting us in the head when we shut down in the pits.
We expect that issue to go away when we put the aluminum in the humps per FFR.

As soon as I'm street legal, I'll drop on about 8 temp sensors and with a Datag di149 kit. I probably have a couple of those laying around In a junk pile.
Bob

The simple answer is, the passenger compartment is low pressure, and the engine bay is high pressure, so the air wants to go into the passenger compartment. The first time we drove it without the FFR aluminum, we only noticed heat coming through the engine cover hoops. Now, we have the aluminum AND plasticor (gotta love the plasticor) for additional airflow blocking, so we started to notice other areas the heat is coming through. I believe it is coming through the console because the wiring is open to the engine bay over the gas tank area, so it can travel up the opening of the console. It primarily exits around the shifter, which we don't have a sealed boot on. The other area I can feel heat coming through is near the doors, where I assume it is traveling forward through the side sails.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

The simple answer is, the passenger compartment is low pressure, and the engine bay is high pressure, so the air wants to go into the passenger compartment. The first time we drove it without the FFR aluminum, we only noticed heat coming through the engine cover hoops. Now, we have the aluminum AND plasticor (gotta love the plasticor) for additional airflow blocking, so we started to notice other areas the heat is coming through. I believe it is coming through the console because the wiring is open to the engine bay over the gas tank area, so it can travel up the opening of the console. It primarily exits around the shifter, which we don't have a sealed boot on. The other area I can feel heat coming through is near the doors, where I assume it is traveling forward through the side sails.

Wow
I was expecting the engine bay to be low pressure with the hot air being sucked out the rear bumper vents.
Bob

[Tamra]

Bob, it's possible your engine bay fans are helping. We will do more testing this week.

[bbjones121]

Wow
I was expecting the engine bay to be low pressure with the hot air being sucked out the rear bumper vents.
Bob

I do not believe the rear bumper vent is positioned in a good spot. I bet there is high pressure right there from air circulating around the rear. Look at other mid exotics convertibles. Very few have opening were the 818 does.

[Hindsight]

Thanks for doing all this testing.... it is very valuable information! I'm really curious to see why the engine is high pressure. The only way I can imagine that is if the side vents are more functional than the rear vents. But if you look at total area, the rear vents are obviously much larger. Maybe the rear bumper is having a parachute effect due to lack of a flat-bottom block-off plate (like a diffuser but something that covers the entire area under the rear of the car).

So based on your testing, you know the cabin is lower pressure than the engine compartment, but is the area just behind the rear bumper lower than the engine compartment?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, it's possible your engine bay fans are helping. We will do more testing this week.

My car would be an unfair comparison. I don't have engine belly pan, wheel wells, diffuser, or hump shields installed.
Bob

[Tamra]

Hindsight, we will do more testing this week and get you some numbers. We may also do more bumper cutouts as BBJones mentioned. What do know is, that the passenger compartment is lower pressure than the engine compartment, and it is causing the air to flow into the passenger area.

Bob, if your engine bay is low pressure because you don't have any of those items, then maybe we should start unbuilding! :) We don't have the engine belly pan or diffuser installed yet either - those are coming soon.

[Pearldrummer7]

Hindsight, we will do more testing this week and get you some numbers. We may also do more bumper cutouts as BBJones mentioned. What do know is, that the passenger compartment is lower pressure than the engine compartment, and it is causing the air to flow into the passenger area.

Bob, if your engine bay is low pressure because you don't have any of those items, then maybe we should start unbuilding! :) We don't have the engine belly pan or diffuser installed yet either - those are coming soon.

Hm. I wonder how much of that is attributable to the windshield. I'd like to see an A-B with race and street windshield.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hindsight, we will do more testing this week and get you some numbers. We may also do more bumper cutouts as BBJones mentioned. What do know is, that the passenger compartment is lower pressure than the engine compartment, and it is causing the air to flow into the passenger area.

Bob, if your engine bay is low pressure because you don't have any of those items, then maybe we should start unbuilding! :) We don't have the engine belly pan or diffuser installed yet either - those are coming soon.

Oh, I have no wind shield yet either.
Bob

[Hindsight]

Hm. I wonder how much of that is attributable to the windshield. I'd like to see an A-B with race and street windshield.

My thoughts exactly. The windshield is going to generate an extremely low pressure area. If you look at the car, it's the biggest feature that would generate pressure differentials.

I don't think it's a problem for the cabin to be lower pressure than the engine compartment so long as the engine compartment is higher pressure than the area directly behind the car. Yes you'll always get some heat into the cabin from that but you should still get engine venting out the back vents too.

[Pearldrummer7]

My thoughts exactly. The windshield is going to generate an extremely low pressure area. If you look at the car, it's the biggest feature that would generate pressure differentials.

I don't think it's a problem for the cabin to be lower pressure than the engine compartment so long as the engine compartment is higher pressure than the area directly behind the car. Yes you'll always get some heat into the cabin from that but you should still get engine venting out the back vents too.

Needs more back vent, then? Cutting out the bottom "trapezoid" might help get rid of heat by (somewhat) equalizing the pressure of the engine bay relative to the area behind the car.

[C.Plavan]

Needs more back vent, then? Cutting out the bottom "trapezoid" might help get rid of heat by (somewhat) equalizing the pressure of the engine bay relative to the area behind the car.

I'm hoping these $10 Amazon vents will help.


http://i.imgur.com/peSVe3Gl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gmMfLKql.jpg

[Pearldrummer7]

Maybe the whole behind-wheel segment should go, a la 919:

http://images.caricos.com/p/porsche/2014_porsche_919_hybrid/images/1024x768/2014_porsche_919_hybrid_2_1024x768.jpg

I mean, it's just 101 more than the 818, right? Comparable cars?

[bbjones121]

I'm hoping these $10 Amazon vents will help.


http://i.imgur.com/peSVe3Gl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gmMfLKql.jpg

I bought those also. Thanks for the link Chad. I am really hoping VRaptor motorsport takes the mold they got from another member and makes a nice fiberglass vent here.

[bbjones121]

I would be extremely curious how the air movement in the engine would be if you blocked off the lower middle rear opening.

[STiPWRD]

Have you thought about putting a firewall between the engine and fuel tank? I was concerned about the heat cooking the electronics and cabin, so I put in that extra firewall.

[Aero STI]

Andrew/Tamra, you mentioned hair smelling like exhaust. The cabin of my 818 also constantly smells like exhaust, whether cruising at 60 MPH or even accelerating quickly. I haven't noticed the smell sticking to me that badly though. This makes me think the pressure difference between the cabin area and the engine bay is quite significant, causing scavenging from the very rear of the car into the cabin. I do have a few more vent areas to cutout still. I have the rear diffuser. I can't recall if you do too.

I haven't noticed an issue with post-intercooler intake temps. I put a block-off plate on the driver side of the HE/radiator and need to make one for the passenger side and upper. 30 minutes of logging while going in to work today I saw 84 degrees at startup and they dropped to 81 by the time I arrived at work. Ambient was around 70.

The car is definitely very hot. It's been getting up to 90 degrees and staying very humid in Michigan lately. In my opinion, anything more than t-shirt and shorts starts to get uncomfortable in the 818 when temps get in the 90's. This at least makes me excited for extending the driving season to later in the fall.

[Mechie3]

Actual numbers and data? Sweet!

[xxguitarist]

Yikes. Ummmm. We'll look over these posts later, and try to address all of it, but Tamra just got back from a long day of work, and I was pretty busy today too.

Upcoming testing definitely planned is engine bay vs rear bumper upper & rear bumper lower section pressures, potentially followed by the same tests with a full under-engine tray/diffuser.
We are looking at venting our side sails, in the side skirt area, to reduce any additional chances of heating from there.

I expect that the addition of the FFR street spoiler (not wing) or an EM legal "ducktail" spoiler will provide a break in the pressure zones, and help the exhaust stay behind the car. If only we had a wind tunnel!

Mechie, we may look to you for some vents/louvers also.

[Mitch Wright]

I plan to duct the radiator exhaust air out the hood which I believe will lower the cockpit temps by quite a bit.

[matteo92065]

Good work on looking into 1) cabin heat 2) exhaust in the cabin and 3) AWIC temperatures.

I'm at various stages of fixing these issues on my car. :)

[Aero STI]

I have the street spoiler and rear diffuser, still have a strong exhaust smell in the cabin. Check out my IR picture thread for some reference temps.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18662-818-Infrared-Images (http://thefactoryfiveforum.c818-Infrared-Images)

[brian b 36]

i have the rear diffuser and street spoiler but i have the exht coming out under the diffuser and i dont have any exhaust smell at all any time it does get warm but
not were i am dieing

[flynntuna]

Yay
We just got back from a long drive, maybe 45 minutes, including some "in town" driving and some highway driving.

The car gets HOT.

Today was 90 degrees ambient.
Our intake at highway speeds was seeing 90 degrees in the box I made, which is great.
The front of the engine bay was around 120 degrees.
While cruising, our pre IC temperature was reading 124 and post was 104.
During a pull with lots of boost :) , we saw pre intake temps of 184 and post of 124. This could definitely be improved (see below for suspected cause).


Unfortunately, our AWIC coolant is experiencing heat soak - it was reading around 115 degrees by the end of our drive.

However, we think we know why: our manometer says we are not forcing any air through the radiators. The pressure differential is next to 0 (-.004) at highway speeds. Next up: Duct air through the radiators. If we aren't forcing air through them, then we are not effectively cooling our AWIC coolant or our engine coolant.

It's probably escaping mostly between the radiators and the hood, and then around the sides. The photo looks a little wavy because I did a panoramic shot.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/DAF30DF9-3D6A-4DBD-BFB9-1066C0B53648_zpsepxep87r.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/DAF30DF9-3D6A-4DBD-BFB9-1066C0B53648_zpsepxep87r.jpg.html)

We are also concerned al ittle bit about our body panels near the exhaust. They are super toasty, even after applying some reflective tape. Is anyone else concerned about this?

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/77296DE8-D53E-4133-A309-C22656FD3462_zpsht5eww6n.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/77296DE8-D53E-4133-A309-C22656FD3462_zpsht5eww6n.jpg.html)


Also, our actual AWIC is getting very hot to the touch, so we need to find a way to get airflow over it. We have not yet cut out the trunk lid hole, so that will also be next up on the list.


The roadster guys have been using foot box vents from Cobra Earl. Might be something that can be adapted to the 818.

http://www.cobraearl.com/products/#TFB

[Tamra]

That's a good idea! We were also thinking of a windshield scoop like they make for Miatas: http://www.mossmiata.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=119315&SortOrder=2

[Tamra]

I plan to duct the radiator exhaust air out the hood which I believe will lower the cockpit temps by quite a bit.

The air isn't coming from the radiator. It's definitely coming from the the engine bay. I think our air is ducting out of the hood vents fairly well actually. While sitting at idle with the fans on very little is making it to the windshield area, a bit is making it out the wheel wells, and most of it is exiting the vents. I don't think the primary source of cabin heat is coming from the radiator.


Actual numbers and data? Sweet!

More to come! If you have any prototypes you need data on, let us know :) If not, we'll wait and then just buy them from you... expect an order coming in the next couple of weeks.


Have you thought about putting a firewall between the engine and fuel tank? I was concerned about the heat cooking the electronics and cabin, so I put in that extra firewall.

It doesn't get hot enough for me to be concerned about cooking the electronics, but I'm sure the extra firewall would help with the cabin heat. However, it would make it a pain to do any work on the car. For example, for our recent fuel pump replacement we were reaching through that area in addition to cutting a hole in the firewall. Maybe if it was a multi-piece part that was easily removable...


I'm hoping these $10 Amazon vents will help.


http://i.imgur.com/peSVe3Gl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gmMfLKql.jpg

They look great if nothing else! Let me know it goes with your testing this weekend. We'll do some testing on our end too to see if air is getting trapped in that area.


Oh, I have no wind shield yet either.
Bob

That would make a huge difference in airflow. Also the reason why the 818R's have *less* problems than the 818S. Adding the windshield makes cooling significantly more difficult.

[Tamra]

Some days you go out to the garage with a plan and the car takes things into its own hands. We planned to install an insulating box around the AWIC, look into our front splitter design, and wrap the downpipe. We managed to wrap the downpipe, but while doing so we noticed a very very strong fuel smell coming from the passenger side. Upon further inspection, we noticed that one of our ID1000 injectors had sprung a leak. After wiggling the others, another sprung a leak (don't wiggle your injectors!!). This is something new that just happened, because when we primed the fuel pump it made an audible (loud) hissing noise and started pouring fuel out after we wiggled it (again, don't wiggle your injectors! lol). We aren't sure why they suddenly developed this issue after having autocrossed the car multiple times before without any issues, but Nasioc seems to find the seals very finicky on the injectors.

We spent awhile tearing those apart, cleaning everything, lubing the new o-rings, and re-installing them. Success - no leaks.

While doing so, of course we did a thorough inspection of everything else and turned up a few other issues. We found a place that one of our AWIC hoses was rubbing and starting to wear through. We will need to reroute it slightly and wrap it thoroughly. After putting the car on jack stands, we found a few minor leaks. One, around our oil temp sender in the oil pan is leaking slightly, which we tightened. Another, around the oil cooler, which we will tighten at our next oil change in the next few weeks. Another, more alarming, around the fuel filler neck where it attaches to the fuel tank (I HATE this fuel tank). We can see griminess around it. Not really sure what to do about it right now. Open to suggestions.

So, a long night of work in the garage that involved almost nothing that we originally planned on working on, but all critical items that need to be addressed. So goes it when building a car!

[RM1SepEx]

Tamra, side question, what did you think about Justin Chen's video of his S2000 autocrossing at Loring?

[Tamra]

The run looked good despite a few bobbles. He seemed to handle to additional speed at Loring very well and looked fairly smooth and tight on cones. I was surprised to see an STR car FTD and take top pax. In our regional club he does well but isn't top pax.

I haven't seen any other videos to compare to. Did you take your kart?

[RM1SepEx]

Wasn't feeling well and also got stung the day before by a wasp. At my advanced age (only 56) I seem to have developed a reaction to stings, chest tightness a month ago led me down the "I need to get an Epi Pen route" This time I was quick to repeated doses of Benadril but I was laid up for a couple days, I puttered on the 818. Now that my STUPID Subaru fuel line clamp issue is done I'm working diligently to get it to an alignment and a dyno.

Scruffy did the last three year's courses up there. They are not exactly autocrosses as you can see by the video. I've missed the last two with health issues.

I was surprised as well that he beat Scruffy in both Porsches... he drives like a mad man! I had offered Justin a seat in one of my DD2's last year but we both missed the event. I need to make it next year with the 818 and the karts

[Aero STI]

Does the factory fill have a bead on the pipe, or is it flat? If it's flat that would certainly not be the best setup to prevent fuel from seeping out.

[Tamra]

Honestly I don't remember what the FFR one looks like and I can't find any photos of it prior to install. I just remember it being a PITA to install so I'd really rather not remove it. We are going to clean up that area today and figure out how bad the leak is. Last night it just looked a little grimy, like a very very tiny seep. I'd love to wait a few months and then just rip the entire tank out and put the front fuel cell in, but if the leak is significant then it's not worth the risk.

[Tamra]

Wasn't feeling well and also got stung the day before by a wasp. At my advanced age (only 56) I seem to have developed a reaction to stings, chest tightness a month ago led me down the "I need to get an Epi Pen route" This time I was quick to repeated doses of Benadril but I was laid up for a couple days, I puttered on the 818. Now that my STUPID Subaru fuel line clamp issue is done I'm working diligently to get it to an alignment and a dyno.

Scruffy did the last three year's courses up there. They are not exactly autocrosses as you can see by the video. I've missed the last two with health issues.

I was surprised as well that he beat Scruffy in both Porsches... he drives like a mad man! I had offered Justin a seat in one of my DD2's last year but we both missed the event. I need to make it next year with the 818 and the karts

Sorry to hear about the bee sting! Hope you're feeling better. Our goal is to be there next year with the 818. Although, if an S2000 on street tires is seeing well over 80MPH, I can only imagine what the 818 will be doing... sounds like a blast to me :)

[Tamra]

Good news, I think the fuel problems are solved. I'm pretty sure the residue around the filler neck actually came from when the sender was leaking previously, and had just ran down the side of the tank. I went ahead and cleaned it up thoroughly to make sure, but I'm pretty sure we are in the clear. No more fuel smell anywhere, but the real test will be when we take it out for the next drive.

In other news, we also blanketed our AWIC core (thanks Oppenheimer for the idea and link on the wrap), and finished wrapping the downpipe. Hopefully this will help keep the engine bay cooler, and also block the AWIC core from what heat there is to prevent heat soak.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/F57332AC-2FCC-4E4E-B4B0-E13D05E947A7_zpsbpc5nlsj.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/F57332AC-2FCC-4E4E-B4B0-E13D05E947A7_zpsbpc5nlsj.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/CBAFAF73-DABC-4FC9-9ACF-D2F5C3CA799B_zpskskbwfzb.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/CBAFAF73-DABC-4FC9-9ACF-D2F5C3CA799B_zpskskbwfzb.jpg.html)

I also insulated the intake box while I was at it.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/86127A41-C9EC-4AE6-B566-F367521F4B0D_zpsemhpbjgy.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/86127A41-C9EC-4AE6-B566-F367521F4B0D_zpsemhpbjgy.jpg.html)

I also had a little fun mocking up a rear ducktail in cardboard :) For SCCA rules in E-Mod, we are not permitted to run a wing - the rules state that the "spoiler may not overhang the bodywork such that air passes both over and underneath it" meaning that we must run a ducktail.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/EB61EAE1-D9F2-45D7-9979-1AA44F5154AA_zpsidlerco8.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/EB61EAE1-D9F2-45D7-9979-1AA44F5154AA_zpsidlerco8.jpg.html)

Here's what Kiesel's sprite looks like. This is the reigning E-Mod national champion car every year since 2007. He is pretty much untouchable.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh104/tweedt/sprite.jpg (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/tweedt/media/sprite.jpg.html)

[Frank818]

Ha! Now we're talking with your insulated intake box+AWIC. :) Did you fix it in place with just alu foil/tape or you used some kind of glue (spray can for instance) as well?

I think that ducktail may slow you down. :)

Judging by the pink helmet, that must be you driving the car! We didn't know you were building one like that too. :)

[philly15]

Kiesel's car is pretty much insane! i cant believe the amount of money in that thing. but hey we can all fight for 2nd place right?? haha im glad you posted this, i didnt know the no wing in E mod rule.

[Tamra]

Ha! Now we're talking with your insulated intake box+AWIC. :) Did you fix it in place with just alu foil/tape or you used some kind of glue (spray can for instance) as well?

I think that ducktail may slow you down. :)

Judging by the pink helmet, that must be you driving the car! We didn't know you were building one like that too. :)

I think that's Kiesel's wife, but it was the first close up shot I found :) I fitted the bubble wrap stuff using the HVAC tape. We are going to test it this way, and if we aren't happy with the results, possibly create a box to the rear trunk lid opening to let airflow in/out.


Kiesel's car is pretty much insane! i cant believe the amount of money in that thing. but hey we can all fight for 2nd place right?? haha im glad you posted this, i didnt know the no wing in E mod rule.

Philly 15- along with the no wing rule, another one is no ABS or traction control systems. ABS can only be used if you are using the original chassis of a car that had ABS, so the 818 doesn't qualify. And agreed, I think trophying at nats is possible with enough work (read, a lot of work), but I don't think the 818 could ever beat Kiesel's car, no matter how much "driver mod" is applied. Maybe he'll get bored of winning so many national championships in the same class and move on to somewhere else, we can hope! :)

[Mechie3]

His sprite is so small that any course with slaloms is an instant advantage. My Fmod is that way. Sometimes I can flat floot slaloms while larger mod cars (CMod) have to slow down. Kiesel, Clemens, and Wasdahl are three mainstays in their classes (Emod, Bmod, and Amod).

[Tamra]

The last few days were a whirlwind for us. We did a last minute STR conversion on the S2000 CR that we are driving at nationals (was AS). It was a nearly full conversion - remote reservoir coilovers, wide wheels, intake, custom fabricated exhaust, tune, etc. We installed the rear coilovers on Wednesday, the car broke an axle while driving to our house on Thursday evening (took out the axle, hub, bearing, and ABS), which was followed by a mad rush to locate S2000 parts (not readily available on same day notice). Friday evening we installed the new axle, hub, and bearing, and finished the front coilovers, set ride height, etc. We finished the car at 1am Saturday, and the owner made it to his alignment and corner balance appointment at 9am (50.00% cross weight. Talk about perfect). We then finished the exhaust on Saturday night by 10pm, just in time for autocross on Sunday.

The car exceeded our expectations. With 4 drivers in the car, it ended up 3rd and 15th in overall pax with no less than 7 previous national champions (and many other very talented drivers) at the event. Andrew and Tim will be in this car for nationals (I'll be in a CSP car), and I will be driving it at the Pro Finale (and they will be in AS in a Z06). We are all pretty excited!

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/11057519_951965971528455_2911443493871668637_o_zps i8r6q7l1.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/11057519_951965971528455_2911443493871668637_o_zps i8r6q7l1.jpg.html)


We have a long list of items to complete on the 818 and our van now, before we leave next Wednesday for nationals. We're not sure if we'll get it all done but we will try, because there is an autocross the weekend after nationals that we would love to take the 818 to.

The van just got a tune, and we are installing gauges (EGT and Trans Temp), and finishing some shelving for it. The 818, we plan to wire in a switch for the radiator fans to keep them running at idle (try to reduce our AWIC heat soak), weld in front and rear braces for our aero, and then design/make/install the front splitter and rear ducktail.

[Frank818]

About the rad fans running at idle, they will run if they are triggered by the thermoswitch, won't they?
Or do you mean you still want them to run even if the temps are too low to kick them in?

[Tamra]

About the rad fans running at idle, they will run if they are triggered by the thermoswitch, won't they?
Or do you mean you still want them to run even if the temps are too low to kick them in?

Correct. The radiator fans don't kick on until the engine coolant is around 200 degrees. We do not want our AWIC coolant to be 200 degrees - we'd prefer it around 80. When idling with no airflow, the AWIC coolant starts heat soaking quickly.

[Pearldrummer7]

I put two switches into my stock radiator fans for that exact reason. The 2002 WRX fans have both a high and a low setting. If you apply 12V to one of the 3 wires you get low speed. If you apply 12V to two of the three wires you get high speed. I keep mine off at first to let the car heat up, then turn them both on once I'm up to temp.

I can make a quick and dirty wiring diagram if you'd like. I really like my switches, too.

[Tamra]

I put two switches into my stock radiator fans for that exact reason. The 2002 WRX fans have both a high and a low setting. If you apply 12V to one of the 3 wires you get low speed. If you apply 12V to two of the three wires you get high speed. I keep mine off at first to let the car heat up, then turn them both on once I'm up to temp.

I can make a quick and dirty wiring diagram if you'd like. I really like my switches, too.

Do yours still work automatically and then just have the switch for manual override? We would like for ours to still "auto pilot" but then have a switch to turn on the high speed fan manually. I'm not sure what would happen if the car tried to turn on the low speed while we are manually running the high speed.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Tamra
This is the schematic I will have.
The white switch and diode at the top will be what I add.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=44707&d=1440440175

[Hindsight]

Congrats on the placing! Roadsters are popular in your neighborhood. Two in your driveway, and a Miata across the street.

[TouchStone]

Correct. The radiator fans don't kick on until the engine coolant is around 200 degrees. We do not want our AWIC coolant to be 200 degrees - we'd prefer it around 80. When idling with no airflow, the AWIC coolant starts heat soaking quickly.

80F? Not fair for those of us in the south.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey Tamra,
I just thought of a simpler way to control the fans.

44723

By telling the ECU that the ac is on. The ecu will control the fans.
You may be able to control the turn on temp in ecu software.
Bob

[brian b 36]

tamra i noted that you were going to block off the air going over the rad the best way to do that is make a shroud from the the top of the rad to the top of the
opening of the bumper thats what we having been doing for years on are roundy round cars and you dont want it flat you want it in a ark and put a ramp on the bottom of the shroud to force the air up in to the rad insead of letting it go under that will work much better brian

[C.Plavan]

Do yours still work automatically and then just have the switch for manual override? We would like for ours to still "auto pilot" but then have a switch to turn on the high speed fan manually. I'm not sure what would happen if the car tried to turn on the low speed while we are manually running the high speed.

I hardwired one fan to my dash panel. When I kick on the AWIC pump, I kick on a radiator fan. Problem solved.

[D Clary]

My coolant switch grounds the fan relay, I have a toggle switch to ground to manually ground the relay, so it will come on either way. My awic runs whenever the ignition is on

[TouchStone]

Do yours still work automatically and then just have the switch for manual override? We would like for ours to still "auto pilot" but then have a switch to turn on the high speed fan manually. I'm not sure what would happen if the car tried to turn on the low speed while we are manually running the high speed.

The fans would just stay on high speed.

IMO with the AWIC I would just wire one of the fans to be permanently on low (or high if necessary). Then let the ECU control the high state of that fan and fully control the second fan. Having a radiator fan on at all times should not cause the engine to heat up any slower since the thermostat controls the coolant flow and engine temp.

[Tamra]

Congrats on the placing! Roadsters are popular in your neighborhood. Two in your driveway, and a Miata across the street.

There's another one in our driveway - a black miata. Plus, the 818 in the garage. I think we hold the neighborhood record at the moment. :)


tamra i noted that you were going to block off the air going over the rad the best way to do that is make a shroud from the the top of the rad to the top of the
opening of the bumper thats what we having been doing for years on are roundy round cars and you dont want it flat you want it in a ark and put a ramp on the bottom of the shroud to force the air up in to the rad insead of letting it go under that will work much better brian

Hi Brian. We actually did something similar to this. A page or two back I posted the results showing pressure differentials before and after the shroud. It was significant!


I hardwired one fan to my dash panel. When I kick on the AWIC pump, I kick on a radiator fan. Problem solved.

Thanks Chad and everyone else for the tips. We ended up with something similar to Chad's setup. We set up the fans to be powered by the AWIC pump line, which is always running if the key is in the accessory or ON position. We have both fans running on high speed (both lines high) all the time.


So we performed some testing tonight and I have some more data for everyone.

For comparison, our prior test showed that the AWIC coolant heat soaked 25 degrees (from 80 to 105) in 10 minutes from a COLD start with the rear engine cover removed.

For this test, we had everything the same as last time, with the exception of the fans running.

The test started at 10:00 with the AWIC coolant at 85 degrees.
By 10:10, the AWIC coolant was 100 degrees (15 degree increase with fans on compared to 25 degrees without fans)
We opened the hood
At 10:18, the AWIC coolant reduced to 97 degrees (3 degree decrease). This indicates that our hood is restricting intake or exhaust airflow
We closed the hood again
At 10:20 (2 minutes later) the AWIC coolant spiked up to 105 degrees (8 degree increase in 2 minutes). The hood is definitely heat soaking the coolant
Opened the hood again
At 10:25 (5 minutes later) the AWIC coolant reduced to 100 degrees (5 degree drop in 5 minutes)
At 10:26 we shut off the car but left it in accessory mode with the fans going and AWIC coolant circulating
At 10:30 the AWIC coolant had reduced to 92 degrees (8 degree decrease in 4 minutes). This indicates that our engine is also heat soaking the coolant

To conclude, we need to open up the vents in the hood more. I'm picturing Mechie's large hood vents. We also need to protect the AWIC hoses passing through the engine bay from the heat. There is one area in particular just above the alternator that gets really hot from the belts blowing heat up from the headers. Stay tuned for another test over the next few days.

[Sgt.Gator]

Instead of just bigger hood vents have you considered a heat extractor type hood vent? Either go down like the new Corvette- Camaro and most other new cars, or go up with a lip. On my car I didn't have room to go down much so I cut in a vent extractor. Works great for sucking air thru the radiator and helps generate front downforce too.
I used a Seibon PD-Style Carbon Fiber Hood Scoop - Subaru Impreza / Wrx / Sti 2006-2007. I took out the mesh and cut the carbon fiber holes much larger.

http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/HDS0607SBIMP-PD.jpg

Here you can see how the front of the vent creates a high pressure zone so that as the air pops over the top it creates a low pressure suction:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SeG9-Kgz4EWPrdRVzoevax_qCKD6hhEheMr83zab1Ko=w608-h456-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YMkAxzp14W1_clg3iDPVG3VB-4KKQy9LMyU7wBIG2_8=w1268-h951-no

Testing with wool at the race track:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dTZqtkBMkinPG2qGEXsdY7DBqgpS2xQh-QDNZ5OfruE=w714-h951-no

This Snail Performance Time Attack car has one too:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/e8Nn3imVPvi9Mndujm2dxoVc7lUTpF9vePAuj6NWRLA=w572-h329-no

This style would open it up a bit for idling test, but starts working better the faster you go.

[Frank818]

Hey Gator, do you think that CF hood insert could fit on our 818 hoods?
Not sure the area opened is as much as Craig's large louvers, but the pressure drop created by the lips might help even more extract the air.

[Tamra]

Thanks Gator! That looks great. I'm not sure it would work for us in autocross since we have 60 second runs followed by 15 minutes in grid. We need a lot of cooling to happen while sitting still (or at least lack of heat soaking). That setup looks like it would work great for a track car that is moving a lot of the time.

[Mechie3]

Not sure the area opened is as much as Craig's large louvers.

Here is some simple data on my louvers:

Medium louvers: 94.75 square inches per panel (112% increase over small louver, 250% increase over FFR mesh))

Small Louver: 44.6 square inches per panel.

FFR mesh: 38.4 square inches of surface area per panel, mesh is only about 70% open for an effective surface area of 26.9square inches.

[bbjones121]

Hey Gator, do you think that CF hood insert could fit on our 818 hoods?
Not sure the area opened is as much as Craig's large louvers, but the pressure drop created by the lips might help even more extract the air.

Where are Craig's large louvers? I only see small and medium.

[JeromeS13]

Thanks Gator! That looks great. I'm not sure it would work for us in autocross since we have 60 second runs followed by 15 minutes in grid. We need a lot of cooling to happen while sitting still (or at least lack of heat soaking). That setup looks like it would work great for a track car that is moving a lot of the time.

I would recommend doing a test with the pump off for a period of time, then switching it one for "when you need it". I wonder if this would limit the amount of heat transferred into the system... As I recall, I thought I've read about some systems that are only activated under boost and/or full throtle?

[Pearldrummer7]

Do yours still work automatically and then just have the switch for manual override? We would like for ours to still "auto pilot" but then have a switch to turn on the high speed fan manually. I'm not sure what would happen if the car tried to turn on the low speed while we are manually running the high speed.

Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner, Tamra. No, mine only work off the switch. What's your fear with getting rid of the auto function?


Edit: I see you found a good solution! Good info on the heatsoaking.

[Mechie3]

Where are Craig's large louvers? I only see small and medium.

My medium one is my large one. I called it medium because you could go one size larger (fill the entire slight depression in the hood) but I don't have plans to do that right now. Other more important things and that piece would be really really really big.

[xxguitarist]

On the heat extractor design, i've thought about adding to FFR's bump. They've already got a bit of one.

Testing soon: Pressure in front area near firewall, while parked, with fans running, hood down, hood cut more open, and hood up.
Not positive my gauge is accurate enough for this, but we'll give it a try. It would show the restriction (high pressure area) being freed up. Can repeat with checking in front of the radiator.

[matteo92065]

Craig's hood vents are amazing. At a stop light you can raise your hand just above the windshield frame, and feel nothing; Turn on the fans, then immediately you can feel the hot air coming out of the vents from the radiator. My radiator and HE are also fully sealed, so all air must go through them and the fans.

[bbjones121]

Craig's hood vents are amazing. At a stop light you can raise your hand just above the windshield frame, and feel nothing; Turn on the fans, then immediately you can feel the hot air coming out of the vents from the radiator. My radiator and HE are also fully sealed, so all air must go through them and the fans.

The question would be, does moving at speed cause eduction effect on Craig's vents and suck air out?

[Aero STI]

I have not experienced similar issues with my AWIC. I'm using Craig's brackets for the HE. The radiator/HE is sealed left and right with aluminum panels, but not the top yet. I'm always running a few degrees above ambient when sitting in traffic, can get close to ambient off boost, and then see a few degree increase on boost. Are you sure you've fully burped the AWIC system?

[Tamra]

I have not experienced similar issues with my AWIC. I'm using Craig's brackets for the HE. The radiator/HE is sealed left and right with aluminum panels, but not the top yet. I'm always running a few degrees above ambient when sitting in traffic, can get close to ambient off boost, and then see a few degree increase on boost. Are you sure you've fully burped the AWIC system?

I wish you had a build thread so we could see what your full setup is! Our AWIC should be fully burped. We also didn't have problems before the body was installed.

[matteo92065]

The question would be, does moving at speed cause eduction effect on Craig's vents and suck air out?
I don't know how it wouldn't (suck air out). There is a very high pressure in front of the radiators while moving, with no where for the air to go but up and out. The fins do stick up a little bit, so that also creates a mini version of what Gator is suggesting with the extractor type hood vent.
BUT, if it were a perfectly balanced system, shouldn't the area of the inlet equal the area of the exhaust vents? So there must still be some room for improvement.

[Sgt.Gator]

Frank I don't know, I don't have an 818 hood to test fit it on.
The outside dimension is 26" across the front, 27.5" across the back, and about 14" deep. The hole in the hood is of course smaller because this sits over the hole. I can get that dimension if you need it.


Here's a better shot of the extractor vent:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HcnoNhZQkr-z99aEMGPXB5IvjQHE7RlClxlKOEiEB7E=w1615-h908-no

I cut out the center hole larger.

The center hole is about 12" x 4" = 48 sqin
Each side hole is about 2.5" x 6.5" = 16.25" x 2 = 32.5
Total opening: 80.5"

Here's a pic of Element Tuning's car which also has one. However I think his is too far back near the windshield and would be much more effective closer to the front of the hood. The reason is the high pressure zone created by the windshield is probably counter forcing (at least partly) the suction effect. In the pic in my post above when I did the wool tuft testing at the track I learned my two Mustang vents work in the first 2/3 of their length, but the last 1/3 actually blew the tufts INTO the engine compartment. I've known for a long time about the high pressure area at the base of the windshield, heck I grew up with Cowl Induction Z28s and Chevelles. But it's quite different to actually SEE the wool being blown in the opposite direction of travel!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CgiZd8uMKuKPVlP5J1MwXPgxLzp7u_KszzTjhav--Nc=w570-h379-no

[Aero STI]

I wish you had a build thread so we could see what your full setup is! Our AWIC should be fully burped. We also didn't have problems before the body was installed.

Yeah, it would be a little weird having a thread for a car that's nearly complete and I'm just working on bugs. I dunno.

Here is typical performance for my AWIC. It's a few degrees above ambient, I make a bunch of boost, the system recovers pretty quickly (11 seconds is shown in this graph). Ignore the "pre turbo", this is post turbo.

http://i.imgur.com/aqHn1nq.jpg

Also, that's after a few back to back 3rd gear pulls making 450 WHP and 500 WTQ. (Graph is truncated to 5200 RPM to remove the wheel spin that occurs around 5600 RPM)

http://i.imgur.com/QFgZEon.png

[Hindsight]

Yeah, it would be a little weird having a thread for a car that's nearly complete and I'm just working on bugs. I dunno.

None of us would think it was weird! I too, would love to see your setup.

How do you like your implementation of the 7163? Does it blow the tires off in most gears or is it manageable? Is the ~4200RPM torque peak working out ok or do you wish it were lower?

[Tamra]

That looks like a great setup AeroSTI, and a ton of power! Ditto to Hindsight's questions.

I am surprised that the turbo falls off in boost so much after 4k though. Is that a 4-5psi drop from 4k-5k? I wouldn't think such a big turbo would have a hard time in the upper rpms like that.

What are you using to log your AWIC temperatures? I haven't seen anyone else have so much success. Only climbing 10 degrees over ambient in boost in incredible. Do you mind sharing more information on your AWIC setup?

[Aero STI]

Well if it's not weird I'll see what I can do. Probably better than mucking up other people's threads. I'm more of a forum reader than contributor these days.

The EFR is working great. The plot above is not the final tune, it's actually a lot of revisions away from final. I'm still working with Phatron of Phatbotti Tuning. The guy is responsible for tuning this 7163 powered car: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2720772.

I expect everything is going to move left by a few hundred RPM as AVCS and timing are optimized. There is more power in it as well, the boost taper is due to injectors being maxed out at 45 PSI base fuel pressure, I'm at 55 PSI now so 24 PSI to redline is attainable. This powerband is not for everyone. The car is a little nutty and definitely has traction issues. I'm pulling 1 G acceleration around 60 MPH. Lowest 50-80 MPH of 1.7 seconds, 60 to 80 of 1.06 seconds. I haven't done any pulls in 4th or above yet.

I don't think my AWIC setup is anything different than anyone else. My bosch pump is wired with my fuel pump to a 40 amp relay. I'll start a thread sometime in the next couple of days and document some things.

[Hindsight]

Nice! I'm looking forward to it. Do you have any type of limited slip or electronic traction control?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

What are you using to log your AWIC temperatures? I haven't seen anyone else have so much success. Only climbing 10 degrees over ambient in boost in incredible. Do you mind sharing more information on your AWIC setup?

Tamra
He was only in boost for 3 to 4 seconds and it raised 10 degrees.

Aero
I would also like to see more of your car. A lot of us are in the troubleshooting phase.
Join the party.
Bob

[Aero STI]

Bob, you're right, but that was also after 3 repetitive runs. The system dissipates heat pretty well. This was my attempt at getting things nice and hot idling. I sat for 10 minutes on the side of the road while I changed logging parameters, then started logging and drove around. A good deal of cruising 60 MPH or below, but plenty of stops too.

I do have 19mm phenolic spacers so my 2.5i intake manifold can clear the AVCS solenoids.

http://i.imgur.com/CZ78nYA.png

[Tamra]

Went to the tuner today. Good news and bad news.

Good news - we have a safe tune and a car we should be able to romp on all day.

Bad news - the car is hitting a wall at 16psi and a little over 300whp.

EFI is thinking that the AWIC is restricting the airflow somehow, and that we need to increase the size of our core.

Watching the tune, they bumped the boost up to over 20PSI and the car was still only making just over 300whp. The temps also started climbing and there was some detonation, so they backed it off. At 16psi the car is happy as can be and makes 300whp even on a super hot day (in the 90s) after doing 40+ pulls on the dyno. It is a little disappointing that our tune earlier this year in March showed better turbo spool and even a little more power, but then again it was a fairly cold day, and today was HOT, and the car was getting heat soaked.

So here's the graph:
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/1D548E62-D76F-44F3-B4F0-6A039E6DA5A9_zpsltcv3lft.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/1D548E62-D76F-44F3-B4F0-6A039E6DA5A9_zpsltcv3lft.jpg.html)

A few photos for everyone:

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/8AC534A7-DAAA-45E0-969E-6BC65A872E65_zpst5afc0oz.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/8AC534A7-DAAA-45E0-969E-6BC65A872E65_zpst5afc0oz.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/7923AD9F-33CC-4EC6-9940-5318DE27BB25_zpst71haztr.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/7923AD9F-33CC-4EC6-9940-5318DE27BB25_zpst71haztr.jpg.html)


http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/118476C2-7A86-4CF1-A685-CD23206DA14F_zpsvwhzzgo9.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/118476C2-7A86-4CF1-A685-CD23206DA14F_zpsvwhzzgo9.jpg.html)


The tune also encompassed tuning the rev limiter (starts to pull timing at 6900rpm-7400rpm - very smooth!) and two step. We can control the two step RPM using the Cobb.

Here's a video of the two step set at 3k (friendly for the neighbors :) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Em0cyPjZX8

[Hindsight]

I'm not a tuner, but IMHO I really don't think the intercooler is causing a power-robbing restriction.

You could put a boost gauge before and after the intercooler and see how much pressure drop there is. The core is spec'd to be like .5 psi pressure drop or less I think.

The other thing is that I'm pretty sure I have read at least three people exceeding 350HP with this exact same intercooler core. I believe Wayne has done it with a dominator 2.5, Metal Maker is around 330+ with a Dom 1.5 I think, and Aero STI is over 400 on ethanol. I'm pretty sure these three are running the same core you are but I could be remembering it wrong.

So there is power loss due to restriction, and power loss due to temps. Temps I could understand, restriction I'm skeptical. If the intake temps are getting too hot, that does obviously point to something in the intercooler system. You did a great job on the intake setup and testing so you know that's now the issue. Did EFI use a really big/strong fan that pushed enough air through the front heat exchanger? Do you see lower temps on the street at speed vs on the dyno? Didn't Wayne make a comment some time ago about doing multiple dyno runs while having the intake temp remain constant? Not sure what ambient temps he did his dyno pulls on though. What did your AWIC water temps look like?

[Tamra]

We are using a different core than others I have seen on the forum. It is a Frozenboost core, and it isn't giant by any means. The air also does a full 180 turn inside of the core. I like your idea of checking air pressure before and after the core - that would settle it for sure.

As for the fan set up, they had a mobile fan blowing directly into the side vent with the air filter. It was a fairly strong fan. The front GIANT fan is made for top mounts, so it definitely wasn't the best. I sprayed some water on the AWIC Radiator between pulls to try to help cool it down.

This combo kept the water temp around 95 between pulls and around 100 directly after. It was 90 ambient but it was pretty hot inside the dyno room. This is comparable to the street temperatures I saw while driving home - 90-95 degree water temp.

Between pulls we were seeing post intercooler temperatures of around 100-105. During pulls, up to 140 ish. I did not watch the gauges during every pull though.

I can see the heat causing some detonation at higher boost levels if things heated up further, however, I would have expected the car to make more than just over 300whp when it was relatively cool and pushing higher boost levels. It's weird how it hit such a wall.

We are leaving for Solo Nationals in the morning, so we won't be able to do any further testing for a few weeks.

[Hindsight]

If the water temps are staying low, which it sounds to me like they are (100 is not bad if ambient was 90), and you had 140 intake temps, this really points to a core that is too small to transfer enough of the intake charge heat into the water. It sounds like the front heat exchanger is working ok.

With regards to the 180 degree direction change, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. Think about a front mount WRX setup. LOTS of bends there (way more total degrees of bends than you have in your setup).

Back to your AWIC core: Is the core itself the same as most others are using (Type 14), but with the end tanks in a different orientation? Or do you also have a smaller core?

[Tamra]

Typing from the road here so sorry if my replies are shorter over the next week and a half. We are officially on the road to Lincoln!

It's a frozenboost type 3, which claims it is good for 600hp and less than .1 psi of pressure drop. http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/water-to-air-p-203.html

They said they had another car at one point that did the same thing with an awic - just hit a hp wall. They swapped the core (not sure to what - could have been a2a) and made 100hp more before even tuning it, and more after the tune. Cooling wise, they highly recommended e85 for power, cooling, etc.

[Hindsight]

I am skeptical of their "HP wall with an AWIC statement." Again, I'm sure they know more than I do about tuning, but an AWIC isn't a magic black box and it can only restrict power in two ways that I'm aware of:
1. Not remove enough heat from the intake charge
2. Too much pressure drop

You know how to measure both so it should be pretty easy to see what's happening.

You are using a smaller core than most of us. Your actual core is 10" x 4.5" x 4.5". Most are using a core size of 10.5" x 6" x 4.5". Those core sizes don't include the end tanks. I'll admin the size isn't THAT much of a difference, but if you find you have more pressure drop than advertised, obviously you could address that with Frozenboost. If the pressure drop is good but you aren't able to transfer enough heat, then just move up to a larger core size.

I agree fully on e85 from everything I have heard and read. Runs cooler, can bump the timing much more aggressively, and you will get a lot more torque from it. Much safer at higher boost levels. On a car like yours that is mostly for track use, it would be a good option. For street, it obviously limits you to staying within range of an e85 station. I go back and forth on whether or not I want to run E85 or 93 octane pump.

Safe travels on your drive to Lincoln!

[matteo92065]

Typing from the road here so sorry if my replies are shorter over the next week and a half. We are officially on the road to Lincoln!

It's a frozenboost type 3, which claims it is good for 600hp and less than .1 psi of pressure drop. http://www.frozenboost.com/air_water-ic/water-to-air-p-203.html

They said they had another car at one point that did the same thing with an awic - just hit a hp wall. They swapped the core (not sure to what - could have been a2a) and made 100hp more before even tuning it, and more after the tune. Cooling wise, they highly recommended e85 for power, cooling, etc.

Keep in mind that most of us are using the type 14 core and is listed as 10.5 x 6 x 4.5 or 283.5in^3. The type 3 core is listed as 10.5 x 4.5 x 4.5 or 212.6in^3.
33% more volume. Same frontal area, but more distance for cooling? Better cooling but more restriction?

[metalmaker12]

What bump steer kit do you use.

[metalmaker12]

Race gas and less timing also run cooler

[metalmaker12]

I like your wheels and mine the best on the 818

[Frank818]

Little late on the AWIC debate, but a too small core will definitely cause issues. Which issues, might depend, but increase in temps, certainly, cuz the core is too small so it can't handle the volume of air. I wouldn't be surprised as well if it would cause a restriction due to the fact it would be too small, but I don't know. What size inlet/outlet?

The thing is that they claim it's good for 600hp and you have half that. Weird... Unless their claim isn't true?

[bbjones121]

Air to air intercooler.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bad news - the car is hitting a wall at 16psi and a little over 300whp.

Watching the tune, they bumped the boost up to over 20PSI and the car was still only making just over 300whp. ]

I don't think the problem is restricted air flow in the AWIC.
They raised the boost to 20 PSI. The 20PSI pressure is measured after the AWIC by the MAP sensor.
Bob

[bbjones121]

What injectors do you have?

[Tamra]

My guess is that everything is related. If there is a boosted air restriction, although we may be getting 20psi to the engine, the turbo could be working extra hard to get there, causing more heat, causing the car to pull timing, etc.

When we get back we will test for restriction by checking boost before the inter cooler. We will also do some more research to make sure we aren't taking the turbo out of its efficiency zone, and then we will decide the next step on the AWIC core. For now at least, 300whp isn't boring, and we can safely go have fun with it :)

[Tamra]

What injectors do you have?

ID1000 injectors


I recently updated page 1 with our build specs for quick reference

[Tamra]

Back from Solo Nationals. I ended up taking 2nd for the season in L3 for the Pro Finale, and then ended up taking the National Championship for CSPL. What an amazing week! Andrew had a great time but had a rough day 1 which knocked him down a ways, but he moved up a ton of places on day 2. So goes it in a huge STR class!

Plan for this week is to finish up the front splitter on the 818, and start working on the rear ducktail support. We will need to weld in bracing, re-do our hood pins, make the ducktail, add support points, etc. Our goal is to get it out to autocross the weekend of the 26th.

Oh yeah, and Andrew drove the 818 to work today. Officially daily driver status now.

[Frank818]

Oh yeah, and Andrew drove the 818 to work today. Officially daily driver status now.

Yeah he got to do it and not you? :)

But seriously, no heat soak?

[Hindsight]

Woah congrats on your placements!!!!

[Tamra]

Yeah he got to do it and not you? :)

But seriously, no heat soak?

I got to drive it to the tuner a few weeks ago, which was 45 minutes each way. Seems like a fair trade :)

He said no problems, but it was cool this morning. Should be hotter on his way home so I'll update you later.


Woah congrats on your placements!!!!

Thank you! I'm still in a little bit of shock lol

[Mitch Wright]

Nice finishes great job and congratulations.

[Rasmus]

Congratulations on Solo Nationals!

[Tamra]

Thanks everyone :)

Finally worked on the car last night after a few days of recovery.

The ducktail support is finished. Next up will be the ducktail. The support bar also included new tabs for mounting the hood hinges, since we were previously using spacers with FFR's brackets, which felt very flimsy. It's now nice and sturdy (better be, since it's going to be taking a lot of downforce!)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/IMG_9630_zpsysvi4yva.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/IMG_9630_zpsysvi4yva.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/IMG_9634_zpscdon0ace.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/IMG_9634_zpscdon0ace.jpg.html)

[Scargo]

Will it be "NASCAR-like"?

[bbjones121]

Thanks everyone :)

Finally worked on the car last night after a few days of recovery.

The ducktail support is finished. Next up will be the ducktail. The support bar also included new tabs for mounting the hood hinges, since we were previously using spacers with FFR's brackets, which felt very flimsy. It's now nice and sturdy (better be, since it's going to be taking a lot of downforce!)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/IMG_9630_zpsysvi4yva.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/IMG_9630_zpsysvi4yva.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/IMG_9634_zpscdon0ace.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/IMG_9634_zpscdon0ace.jpg.html)

Looks great. This is what I was planning on doing as well. Way too flimsy back there. I do not want to be worrying about the body flying off at 100+ mph

[JeromeS13]

Looks great. This is what I was planning on doing as well. Way too flimsy back there. I do not want to be worrying about the body flying off at 100+ mph

It won't fly off as is. I've been up to 130 MPH or so.

[Tamra]

Will it be "NASCAR-like"?

Yes it will :)


Looks great. This is what I was planning on doing as well. Way too flimsy back there. I do not want to be worrying about the body flying off at 100+ mph

We aren't worried about the body flying off. However, we are worried that if we attached a 10" ducktail to the fiberglass, that it would break at higher speeds.


Also, we will have to redo some of the bracing. When we went to attach the bumper there was some interference, unfortunately. That will be a project on Sunday, along with installing coilovers on our miata (going light STS build) and engine mounts in the Speed3. Today, off to autocross!

[Tamra]

Bracing re-done, and e-mod legal ducktail designed, cut and installed!

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/6C4A1AEB-D7F4-4645-AAE2-F34F991A4F23_zpspbjyfrjc.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/6C4A1AEB-D7F4-4645-AAE2-F34F991A4F23_zpspbjyfrjc.jpg.html)

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/B2F8A1BA-1353-4037-B25C-6B9C86EFA4AE_zpsdsr2fecq.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/B2F8A1BA-1353-4037-B25C-6B9C86EFA4AE_zpsdsr2fecq.jpg.html)


It is held on by the hood pins, which are attached to the frame/bracing we welded on, and one rivnut into the trunk lid, making it easy to take on and off in minutes. It's hard to see in the photos but the upper bolt on the side plates has 3 adjustment holes for angle changes as well.
http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/36C89153-52CA-40D5-BE5E-CEDEF6A5437F_zps0x3ny739.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/36C89153-52CA-40D5-BE5E-CEDEF6A5437F_zps0x3ny739.jpg.html)

[Scargo]

Nice work! Now, with the bracing, the down-force will go straight to the suspension. Is that the max legal width and height for the ducktail?

Now you need this for the front!
45893

[Tamra]

It is not quite max legal width and height. We are permitted to go as wide as the fenders, but for version 1, we decided to keep it simpler and follow the straightish lines of the rear trunk lid rather than trying to make a curved fit to the fenders. Height wise it is pretty close - at the most upright position, it is at 10" (max legal). At our expected middle position, it is closer to 9". The side plates are at the max 100sq inches.

We will be finishing the front splitter tonight. It won't quite look like the photo you posted lol.

Still to go before autocross on Saturday:
- finish front splitter
- put ride height and alignment back to "pre-inspection" points
- oil change

[Canadian818]

Great work! Can't wait to hear how testing goes. What speeds are you reaching in auto x? Very curious about your splitter, but rather than ask a bunch of questions I'll just wait patiently ��

[Tamra]

Front splitter is ready! This is definitely version 1, as we already have things we want to improve.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/FB4144F3-29C0-47AC-89B5-D2043878C81C_zpsmwssd9eu.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/FB4144F3-29C0-47AC-89B5-D2043878C81C_zpsmwssd9eu.jpg.html)


It has F-brackets on the back that slot over a bar running width wise at the back of the bumper, which is bolted on directly to the frame (no bumper attachment). The bar is bent so that it is flush at the bumper level, and also touching the frame, which is up another ~1" or so. Once slotted in, it cannot be pressed back any further. On the front, it is quick release and attached to a bracket Andrew welded together and we bolted on to the frame. In total, it takes about 15 seconds to install/remove.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag408/wrx818/Build/8244C26F-3CCF-4B27-A040-70D17855609C_zpsedjdpjx1.jpg (http://s1374.photobucket.com/user/wrx818/media/Build/8244C26F-3CCF-4B27-A040-70D17855609C_zpsedjdpjx1.jpg.html)

We would like for it to be stronger feeling, especially on the sides. For autocross we should never see much over 80mph, so for now this one should work. Version 2 will be made of a different, stronger, material and possibly include more bracing.

[Hindsight]

Splitter looks like it will be very functional, and also provide some cone protection.

It looks like you managed to overcome the hood fit issue that everyone else has, where the front corner of the hood meets the bumper. On most it intersects at a different point on the right vs left side. How did you get it so even?