MK5 Blueprint 347 Canton T-sump and 4R70W does not fit

[ironman16nc]

Anyone else trying to get a Blueprint 347 with 4R70W transmission into the new MK5 frame? I've got two big problems.
1) The Canton 15-610 Front T sump oil pan will not clear the angled cross bracing in the front of the frame.
2) The rear pan on the 4R70W will not clear the transmission mount tabs welded to the frame in the rear.

For the oil pan, I guess I could change the oil pan to a non-T design, but this is a new engine bought along with my MK5 kit, so I would think the parts supplied by the two manufacturers should work together.

For the 4R70W clearance, it looks like I need to cut off the forward carriage-bolt holes (at least) on the frame. But then the transmission mount is just held on by the back two carriage bolts.

Ideas?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sorry, no help with the trans issue but I know that the Mk5 requires a rear sump oil pan. I used a Champ CP302LT-RR for the 347 in my Mk5.

Jeff

[TrackDay17]

Sorry, no help with the trans issue but I know that the Mk5 requires a rear sump oil pan. I used a Champ CP302LT-RR for the 347 in my Mk5.

Jeff

Jeff, how is your clearance with the pan ?
Is it level or above the frame rail ?

[rich grsc]

2) The rear pan on the 4R70W will not clear the transmission mount tabs welded to the frame in the rear.


For the 4R70W clearance, it looks like I need to cut off the forward carriage-bolt holes (at least) on the frame. But then the transmission mount is just held on by the back two carriage bolts.

Ideas?

Yes that is a known issue that the mount must be modified

[ironman16nc]

Thanks, Jeff/Rich. Wisdom and experience!
1) I'll call Blueprint tomorrow. Hopefully they will stand behind their product and send me a new oil pan and sump pickup that will work. I'll post my results.
2) I'll call F5 tomorrow also. See if they have any drawings for how to modify the mount for a 4R70W.

-Paul

[Papa_Jack]

Paul,
I have the same 4R70W trans mount issue. When I called FFR they did not have an answer or suggestion. I indicated that I will need to eliminate the front two bolt locations to which they added, "It would be best to add/relocate the two eliminated bolts." I've attached a picture of where I'm at right now (sorry if the picture is upside down) Not ready to drill two additional holes, just yet. When we were trying to fit the engine/trans in earlier before cutting relief, it looked like the trans mount will be at the end of the cross member. Could be another issue. Interested to hear what FFR says. Just a side note; when I ordered my engine/trans from BluePrint, I asked if there were any fitment issues with the MK5. They just said that, "it will fit."
Jack
4R70W Trans Mount-2.jpg

[ironman16nc]

Hi, Jack.
I really appreciate the picture, thanks!
SO here's the responses that I got:
1) Blueprint: fast reply, apologies for the problem, "I will work with my warranty team to get this taken care of as quickly as possible." I'm a happy customer there.
2) Factory Five: "Factory Five does not have support for the 4R70W in the MK5." and "I would not recommend modifying the frame." I was VERY clear when I ordered the MK5 what engine/transmission I intended to use. Seems like there's zero communication between sales and tech support. I'm NOT a happy customer (and note, I've bought 3 kits! This is how they treat a repeat customer?) I've asked that they reconsider - seems there's more and more interest in putting an automatic in these. They should spend the small amount of engineering needed to fit the 4R70W, including a drive shaft that works (a future problem I know I'll have that they leave to the customer to solve).
So...to be continued.

[rich grsc]

There is a member in our group that is installing this in his car, and he had to modify the mount and frame. It was a very simple mod, he just cut out a small corner of the mount and the same on the tab welded to the frame. Zero reason to be an "unhappy" customer, you're building a car, when going outside the box you just adapt.
Maybe he'll see this post?

[Mike.Bray]

2) Factory Five: "Factory Five does not have support for the 4R70W in the MK5." and "I would not recommend modifying the frame." I was VERY clear when I ordered the MK5 what engine/transmission I intended to use. Seems like there's zero communication between sales and tech support. I'm NOT a happy customer (and note, I've bought 3 kits! This is how they treat a repeat customer?) I've asked that they reconsider - seems there's more and more interest in putting an automatic in these. They should spend the small amount of engineering needed to fit the 4R70W, including a drive shaft that works (a future problem I know I'll have that they leave to the customer to solve).
So...to be continued.

I understand the comment about not recommending modifying the frame, as a manufacturer they have to insure the integrity of their products and have no idea what mods you will make. I wouldn't worry about that, it sounds like the mods are minor and the FFR frames are considerably overengineered.

I can relate to the disconnect between sales and tech. When I ordered my kit in 2021 I wanted pin drive wheels which meant a narrow rear end and the narrow front suspension. Sales called me and said they could not provide either and that pin drive wheels were illegal on the street so I needed to forget it. In case you're wondering, pin drive wheels are not illegal and never have been.

I got the rear end from Forte. I was trying to figure what to do about the front end (build my own?) when I saw Dave Smith on a FB video talking about pin drive front suspensions and he said if anyone wanted to order one they could supply it. I captured that video and sent it to sales and told them I wanted it. Then they couldn't figure what to supply so I found the part number in an old order sheet I had saved and sent it to them.

To be such a small company there does seem to be too much disconnect.

[ironman16nc]

Thanks, Rich/Mike.
I'll chill out. It just hit me wrong, like they don't really listen to customers. It's not the company culture I'd want, but yup, not my company, so not my say.
I still believe they are missing available market by not having an engineered solution for the 4R70W.

[rich grsc]

they don't really listen to customers. It's not the company culture I'd want, well sorry you think that way, it not true, at all. The engineered solution is for YOU to make the adjustments necessary, as auto transmission is a VERY SMALL part of sales

[wallace18]

Not sure if this helps but I put a 4R70W in a MK4 a while back.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ight=wallace18

[ironman16nc]

Thanks, Wallace. Nice thread and great build! Helpful.
Two questions:
1) Is this the sport shifter you used? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l...1NgqJxA27R06zQ

2) Any "been there, done that" info on what you needed to do for the drive shaft? F5 supplied me a 28 spline, 11.25" driveshaft (part# 16348X)

Appreciate the advice.
Paul

[wallace18]

Question 1 - yes.
Question 2 - You will have to get the correct driveshaft yoke for the 4R70W from Summit. Contact them for correct part#. I did not save that info. Best of luck with the build.