TN Father and Son Coupe Build - Need to grind spacers for Konis?

[Afdent11]

Our kit finally arrived today! I'm excited and overwhelmed. My son (14) is just excited. I've never done anything nearly this mechanically intense before. I've upgraded my ChatGPT account to try to keep from bothering you all with too many stupid questions, but I know we're going to need a lot of help and confirmations that we've done things right.

We ordered our kit while we were at the build school last December. It was completed Feb 7th and we received it today, April 8th. We ordered our engine a couple of weeks after the class and received it at the end of March.

It's a 30th Anniversary Kit with regular fiberglass body. We kept it pretty basic for now with just power steering, hydraulic clutch kit, in-tank fuel pump. Engine is a BluePrint 347 with Holley Sniper 2 and Tremec TKX transmission.

I have a million thoughts running through my mind right now. But to start:

1. What sorts of things should I be doing AFTER I finish my inventory, but BEFORE I start bolting on the steering rack to make the process go smoother? Don't be afraid to say the obvious things.

2. When the time comes, should I consider swapping the McLeod throwout bearing for a Tilton before installing the engine/transmission?

3. Should I go ahead and just order Tilton Master Cylinders now? Or are the Wilwoods fine? I just feel like I've seen a lot of posts about people having issues

4. Any instructions or methods the manual gives that you would ignore and do differently?

I feel like I've learned quite bit just from spending hours on the forums the last few months. It has been so nice to see how friendly and supportive everyone is. Thanks in advance for all of the help we're going to need!

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[JimStone]

Congratulations on your kit arrival!

I was also a novice when I began my Coupe project. I've found some of the most enjoyable parts have involved peeling away from the build manual (do I still have that thing? Haven't seen it in a year....) and creating something unique and all your own. I've learned so many new skills like metal fabrication, upholstery, powder coating, electrical, etc from going out on my own.

That, of course, takes time. And so that is another suggestion: take your time and enjoy. Your son is 14, but I doubt you want this to be his first car (right??? Or maybe you're the best Dad ever!)

[PNWTim]

Our kit finally arrived today! I'm excited and overwhelmed. My son (14) is just excited. I've never done anything nearly this mechanically intense before. I've upgraded my ChatGPT account to try to keep from bothering you all with too many stupid questions, but I know we're going to need a lot of help and confirmations that we've done things right.

We ordered our kit while we were at the build school last December. It was completed Feb 7th and we received it today, April 8th. We ordered our engine a couple of weeks after the class and received it at the end of March.

It's a 30th Anniversary Kit with regular fiberglass body. We kept it pretty basic for now with just power steering, hydraulic clutch kit, in-tank fuel pump. Engine is a BluePrint 347 with Holley Sniper 2 and Tremec TKX transmission.

I have a million thoughts running through my mind right now. But to start:

1. What sorts of things should I be doing AFTER I finish my inventory, but BEFORE I start bolting on the steering rack to make the process go smoother? Don't be afraid to say the obvious things.

2. When the time comes, should I consider swapping the McLeod throwout bearing for a Tilton before installing the engine/transmission?

3. Should I go ahead and just order Tilton Master Cylinders now? Or are the Wilwoods fine? I just feel like I've seen a lot of posts about people having issues

4. Any instructions or methods the manual gives that you would ignore and do differently?

I feel like I've learned quite bit just from spending hours on the forums the last few months. It has been so nice to see how friendly and supportive everyone is. Thanks in advance for all of the help we're going to need!

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IMG_3981.jpg
3972.jpg

For question 1 - I would try and make a game plan on what order of operations you want to follow. You can follow the manual's order of operations and probably should if that makes you comfortable. In my opinion, based on sitting around and waiting, I would drill a lot of the aluminum so you can do whatever you need to finish it. That way, your not waiting around to have it powder coated or painted or whatever. Make sure all your boxes are accessible and don't jumble the parts together. You need to be able to hunt down parts using the inventory sheets and box numbers.

For question 2 - I have used the Tilton HRB twice now and really like it. That's all I have to say.

For question 3 - there is some real negativity on this forum regarding the Wilwood MC's. I am not sure it's warranted. For every person who has an issue on this forum there are probably 100 builders that don't. If you want to do something different, feel free.

For question 4 - there is a lot of info in the manual that is a little outdated or not relevant. Double check against good build threads to clarify. Make sure you get the individual instructions for the AC installation, E brake, etc.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[Sea Hut]

Congratulations on your new arrival! Very exciting time. Like you, I’m a new/rookie builder who received my 30th anniversary coupe in mid January. I am building out of 1/2 of a two car garage so these are a few things I’ve discovered.

1) As a beginner, the build/assembly manual is convoluted, and has evolved over the years to include a mix of donor input pages, and various options (3 link, 4 link, IRS for example). I mistakenly assumed that the boxes would be in sequence but, oh no, you will find the need for multiple boxes right out of the gate (1, 2, 29, etc). That was tough when I put boxes 10 through 40 in my offsite storage space! First lesson: do a 3 ring binder with your inventory sheets in document protectors. You will constantly be referring back to the inventory sheets, if only to identify what the heck an obtuse, angle correcting frame bracket is!

2) if you try to follow the manual, you will assume that the assembly steps follow each other. Nope. For example, as you build out your front suspension and one spindle is angled 45 degrees and the other is awry, you must jump ahead to some steering column assembly in order to center the rack. This fluidity lends itself to the many threads that show a wide variety of build sequences.

3) as you build, have an iPad or tablet open to multiple threads as tabs so you can compare pics and issues that other, more experienced builders have posted (edwardb is a great follow for your build).

4) Don’t get discouraged. I have already assembled just about every part upside down, backwards or on the wrong side. Just today I realized my upper control arms were on the wrong side. Evaluate each part closely before breaking out the torque wrench or, worse yet, the dreaded red Loctite! Learn every step of the way.

5) Have fun and most importantly, share your build with your son and others!

[Namrups]

Don't be afraid to ask a question! There are no dumb questions. If your not sure about something, ask before doing. Saves time, effort and money! Forum members love to help. It's there way to give back for the help they received. Post pictures!!! Experienced builders can look at your picture and highlight a mistake before you get too deep in the weeds. Check your local area to see it there are any other owners/builders/clubs. They are a hugh asset. When I wanted to install my engine I posted to the local cobra club that I could use some help. When the day came I had 10 guys show up to give me a hand in the garage and as an added benefit the neighborhood was treated to a cobra car show as everyone drove there cars to help.

Scott

[Papa]

Welcome to the Coupe club! I'm on my second build, my first being a MK4 Roadster. My basic recommendations:

1. If you have a scanner, scan your complete inventory as a searchable OCR document. I find this to be a very convenient way to find parts.

2. Read through the manual a few times to get familiar with the aspects of the build. You don't need to follow it page-by-page, but at least have a sense of the order. I do the suspension, then fit and drill all the aluminum, then brake lines and fuel lines and tank, then start putting aluminum panels in, then lay out the electrical, then get the engine and transmission in, cooling system, more aluminum, body on, interior, last of the aluminum, and final items that mount on the body.

Try to think ahead and consider servicability of the finished car. Paul's (edwardb) Coupe build is the first place I go for reference, but there are many other awesome builds that add clarity or offer alternative approaches as well.

Another helpful hint is how to use Google to search the forum. Using the standard Google search tool, enter a search using this syntax:

site:thefactoryfiveforum.com search term(s)

Replace search term(s) with key words you are looking for. Google will then return forum-specific links with threads/posts containing what you are looking for.

Last piece of advice ... take it slow and enjoy the process of building. For me, the build is the best aspect of the Factory Five experience.

[JTG]

Congratulations!

We're technically building our Coupe as a family, but it's mostly my son and I (16 yrs. old).
I decided early on that this project is about spending time working on something together, and not about getting the car done on a certain schedule. This has been a struggle for me when I go out to the garage and look at all the things that could be done and then decide to wait until he has time to do them with me. He is very excited about the car but he's also a teenager and wants to spend time with his friends, or go to the weight room, or football practice, or any other number of things.

I guess what I'm saying is that for us there's a balance between doing something fun together and pushing so hard that he ends up hating the car. My instinct is to back off and wait until he's ready which makes for slow progress.

You'll find a rhythm with your son I'm sure. I look forward to following along!
Jon

[Afdent11]

Thank you guys so much for the responses and great advice! My wife and son and I started on the inventory last night. My other son and daughter poked their heads in a few times, but they’re not as interested. We spent just under two hours and got through box 11. We’ll hit it again tonight.

[burchfieldb]

Congrats on getting your kit. I am on year 5 of my build and still have a ways to go, but I also really enjoy the process and want to take my time so I have no regrets later. Definitely ask away with the questions, this forum is a wealth of knowledge. I found it helpful to write on the box what is in it and to also do a video summary of yourself explaining where you are, at the end of the day, that way when you come back to it weeks later or months you know where to continue.

- Brent

[Afdent11]

Hey guys. Got to box 25 tonight. I got a little confused with the names of the e-brake parts. I've included some pictures. But I think I'm missing one of the 3 nylon bushings, a 3/16" and 1/8" spacer, the handle to ratchet mount spacer and the 1/4" female rod end. I have the male rod end. I believe the large rectangular plate with a few holes in it is the "handle support". I also believe the two long L shaped brackets might be the "handle to ratchet mounts". I think the 2 smaller 90 degree angle brackets are the "e-brake mounting brackets".

Another thing I thought was odd is that my speedometer is NOT the reverse read. For the 30th Anniversary Coupe it specifically said it would have the reverse read. Has anyone else noticed this?

Any final question for tonight. James at BluePrint said for Coupes he makes sure to send the TKX with the shift mount moved forward so you can have the straight rather than angled shifter. The shifter I got from Factory Five was the angled one. Do I just need to call Factory Five for a swap? Or do they only send the angled one because that's all they have?

Thanks guys!

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[Sharris2]

Coupes Speedo are not reverse read; mk4 &5 are.

[Afdent11]

Coupes Speedo are not reverse read; mk4 &5 are.

Oh okay, so factory five probably just copied text from the 30th anniversary roadster description into the 30th anniversary coupe description and didn’t correct it. Thanks!

[edwardb]

Check the build manual for the e-brake assembly. There's a very detailed engineering drawing of all the parts, and a sequence of pictures showing how it's assembled. Agreed, the Coupe Vintage gauges don't have the reverse speedo. I don't have that in my Coupe. Only a Roadster thing. Sounds like you're describing the standard forward facing shifter that FF provides with all their kits. Including the boot, trim ring, etc. The forward angle is an original Cobra feature, but not too common anymore with where most builders install their transmission shift location. My 30th Anniversary Roadster also included a billet aluminum straight shifter and a shift ball. Nice piece and i plan to use it. Your anniversary Coupe kit didn't include this? Visible in this picture: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1771040714

[Afdent11]

Check the build manual for the e-brake assembly. There's a very detailed engineering drawing of all the parts, and a sequence of pictures showing how it's assembled. Agreed, the Coupe Vintage gauges don't have the reverse speedo. I don't have that in my Coupe. Only a Roadster thing. Sounds like you're describing the standard forward facing shifter that FF provides with all their kits. Including the boot, trim ring, etc. The forward angle is an original Cobra feature, but not too common anymore with where most builders install their transmission shift location. My 30th Anniversary Roadster also included a billet aluminum straight shifter and a shift ball. Nice piece and i plan to use it. Your anniversary Coupe kit didn't include this? Visible in this picture: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/atta...3&d=1771040714

Thanks. Sorry I forgot the manual had all of that detail on the e-brake. It did confirm I am missing some spacers and the female rod end piece.

And no I didn’t receive that shifter. Just the angled one with the black ball knob. I haven’t opened everything, but I looked ahead at all the inventory sheets and nothing like that was listed. I’ll check with Factory Five on that one.

[Papa]

The "short shifter" shown in Paul's picture is part of the Coyote instal parts. My kit shipped with the angled shifter in box #6 and the short shifter in box #28.

[PNWTim]

Interesting how this changes over time. My kit only came with the short shifter - no angled shifter but I also ordered mine with the T56 so maybe they delete it when you choose that transmission. There is also the standalone instructions for the e-brake that might be helpful.

https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/con...structions.pdf

[Afdent11]

Still working through the inventory. I received the correct shifter. FactoryFive just said to cut off the end and drill a new hole if I want it to be straight rather than angled. Or I supposed I could buy a different one. The straight billet style was for Coyote only, as Papa mentioned.

Realized I don't have my p/s rack yet. The very first step!! I ordered back in December. I guess it's normal to still not have it 4 months later? Car complete date was Feb 7. I don't suppose it would cause any issues to move onto the control arms first once inventory is done?

[Papa]

You won't have any problem installing the steering rack after the control arms. I'd recommend calling FFR to get an ETA on when it should ship. Is it listed on your POL sheet? Drilling the hole in the shifter is a bigger. It's stainless steel.

[Afdent11]

You won't have any problem installing the steering rack after the control arms. I'd recommend calling FFR to get an ETA on when it should ship. Is it listed on your POL sheet? Drilling the hole in the shifter is a bigger. It's stainless steel.

So I didn’t actually get a POL list. I just assumed I was supposed to make my own based on the individual items they had marked with a zero instead of a checkmark. I did reach out to FF this morning and they said they couldn’t give me an ETA on the steering rack. I thought that was a little odd.

Maybe I’ll just buy a different straight shifter rather than cut and drill this one.

[Papa]

You might consider this shifter, which Paul used in his Coupe build.

https://a.co/d/0ecCiyKk

[Afdent11]

You might consider this shifter, which Paul used in his Coupe build.

https://a.co/d/0ecCiyKk

I like that one. Thanks!

[Afdent11]

So we've finished the inventory. Missing the center section, steering rack, engine mounts, all the black anodized panels and a few other things. I was going to get started on the control arms and shocks this weekend. I remember someone talking about changing out the ball joints. Is that something I should do? I'm guessing I'll need to rent a tool to press the new ones in? And that's just for the lower control arms, right? I did order these ball joint boots that I saw mentioned on another thread. 4 of the same - pictured here. Are those also just for the front lower control arms?

I remember in the build school doing some measuring and marking before removing the body. Nothing in the instructions about it. Can I go ahead and remove the body and just set it down on a two 2x4s, one on each side under the doors?

Thanks!

Jesse
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[edwardb]

So we've finished the inventory. Missing the center section, steering rack, engine mounts, all the black anodized panels and a few other things. I was going to get started on the control arms and shocks this weekend. I remember someone talking about changing out the ball joints. Is that something I should do? I'm guessing I'll need to rent a tool to press the new ones in? And that's just for the lower control arms, right? I did order these ball joint boots that I saw mentioned on another thread. 4 of the same - pictured here. Are those also just for the front lower control arms?

I remember in the build school doing some measuring and marking before removing the body. Nothing in the instructions about it. Can I go ahead and remove the body and just set it down on a two 2x4s, one on each side under the doors?

Thanks!

Jesse

The discussion about changing ball joints is the upper ones. They are screwed in. Not pressed in. I one of the lucky ones who has never had good luck with the kit supplied Mevotech ball joints. I've tried what others have done, e.g. clean the threads, etc. Maybe others will describe what they've done to make them work. Many (most) will tell you don't give up on them. I'm just not a fan of taking extreme measures like putting the control arm in a vise and forcing them in with a big wrench. You may have to get them out some day. I've tried Moog with mixed results. I've found Howe Racing 22320S ball joints fit perfectly every time and so have others. That's probably what you've seen. But they're not cheap, I'm not promoting that you use them unless you run out of options and want to depart with $200, and I can't say they offer any performance improvement. The threads in the control arms are fine. No reason to mess with those.

The Coupe body stores off the chassis pretty easily. I stored mine for a year or more without a buck. Just propped up along the doors as I recall and the rear. The nose (hood) you can store standing up if you have room. Did that too.

[jengum]

I had success using a wire wheel on a bench grinder to clean up the threads for the FFR supplied uppers.

[Afdent11]

The discussion about changing ball joints is the upper ones. They are screwed in. Not pressed in. I one of the lucky ones who has never had good luck with the kit supplied Mevotech ball joints. I've tried what others have done, e.g. clean the threads, etc. Maybe others will describe what they've done to make them work. Many (most) will tell you don't give up on them. I'm just not a fan of taking extreme measures like putting the control arm in a vise and forcing them in with a big wrench. You may have to get them out some day. I've tried Moog with mixed results. I've found Howe Racing 22320S ball joints fit perfectly every time and so have others. That's probably what you've seen. But they're not cheap, I'm not promoting that you use them unless you run out of options and want to depart with $200, and I can't say they offer any performance improvement. The threads in the control arms are fine. No reason to mess with those.

The Coupe body stores off the chassis pretty easily. I stored mine for a year or more without a buck. Just propped up along the doors as I recall and the rear. The nose (hood) you can store standing up if you have room. Did that too.

Ah, okay makes sense. Thanks. And these ball joint boots just go on the upper and lower front ball joints?

[Jeff Kleiner]

For what it’s worth my FFR supplied upper ball joints screwed into my Mk5 control arms by hand.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Ah, okay makes sense. Thanks. And these ball joint boots just go on the upper and lower front ball joints?

Just the small/shorter ones from the set go on the upper ball joint. The ones on the lower control arms aren't easily replaced and in my experience are OK.

For what it’s worth my FFR supplied upper ball joints screwed into my Mk5 control arms by hand.

Jeff

You've been luckier than me. I tried everything, including the wire brush thing as mentioned here earlier and nothing worked for me. Multiple times including with the Mk5 build. I've seen some posts where guys really bashed them up trying to get them to work. Or couldn't get them fully seated and then couldn't get them out. It's not nice. The variability seems to be with the Mevotech parts. Some eventually work. Some don't. Just luck of the draw I guess. Never had any issues with the control arms. Try them. Try the tricks if necessary and hopefully they will go in. Like I said, I'm not promoting to change them. Only citing my experience.

[Afdent11]

Got the body off today with some help from friends. Installed the lower control arms and torqued them down. Started assembling the Koni double adjustable shocks. Hopefully everything looks correct. Made sure to keep the 400# springs for the rear and the 500# springs for the front.

I need to get some better snap ring pliers so I can get those snap rings in the picture down past the ball joint and also to install the snap rings on the top of the hat on the shocks. Also need to go pick up lithium grease for the delrin washer.

I know this is the simplest of the simple and only like step 1.5, but does anyone see anything they would do differently? I thought I remember someone talking about changing the orientation of a control arm bolt somewhere for future access, but maybe that was on a different part of the car.

Thanks!

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[Jeff Kleiner]

There is no snap ring used on the ball joint boot.

Jeff

[Afdent11]

There is no snap ring used on the ball joint boot.

Jeff

Oh, really? Man it looked like there is a little groove on the ball joint below that boot that it would fit into. When I Googled it, it said it does go there and that Factory Five usually leaves out that detail. I guess I can't always trust Google and ChatGPT.

So were does that snap ring go? The manual doesn't talk about it. It was in the same bag with the lower control arm bolts, 4 washers, and nylon lock nuts and the castle nuts, cotter pins, and ball joint zircs. Also, I had two extra washers in that bag because it seems like they're only used as spacers at the rear LCA mounting point, so I only needed two.

Jesse

[JTG]

For what it’s worth my FFR supplied upper ball joints screwed into my Mk5 control arms by hand.

Jeff

More or less the same experience here, although we had a slightly weird scenario. First attempt to screw them in and they were tight as described in other build threads. Then we swapped them and they screwed all the way in by hand. So even though the control arms and ball joints are identical, we actually had a left and a right.

[edwardb]

...I thought I remember someone talking about changing the orientation of a control arm bolt somewhere for future access, but maybe that was on a different part of the car...

Yes, you need to turn that front lower LCA bolt around. Later you'll be adding sheet metal and the bolt will be trapped if installed in that direction. I know the manual shows it the way you installed it.

X2 on no snap rings on that lower ball joint. Get used to having leftover parts. I have a box of them after every build.

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[Afdent11]

Yes, you need to turn that front lower LCA bolt around. Later you'll be adding sheet metal and the bolt will be trapped if installed in that direction. I know the manual shows it the way you installed it.

X2 on no snap rings on that lower ball joint. Get used to having leftover parts. I have a box of them after every build.

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Thank you! I just finished rotating those front LCA bolts. My LCAs are the silver forged aluminum. You don’t think that would change anything with the ball joint would it? I mean, it looks like there is a groove there between the ball joint and the control arm that’s just asking for a snap ring see photo

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[edwardb]

Thank you! I just finished rotating those front LCA bolts. My LCAs are the silver forged aluminum. You don’t think that would change anything with the ball joint would it? I mean, it looks like there is a groove there between the ball joint and the control arm that’s just asking for a snap ring see photo

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Back slowly away from the snap rings..... really. The picture is my Coupe. My Mk5 with the forged arms is the same.

[Afdent11]

Back slowly away from the snap rings..... really. The picture is my current Mk5 and yes has the forged arms. But multiple builds before with LCA's like yours are the same. Jeff K many more than that.

Haha! Okay, they're put away in the "extra parts" box. Thank you!

[edwardb]

Haha! Okay, they're put away in the "extra parts" box. Thank you!

Note that I had a brain cramp and mixed up what I pictured and your forged arms. Same as the forged arms in my Mk5 build. Fixed in my post. Still wrong in your quote of my post. No big deal. Meaning is the same.

[Afdent11]

How far should I go without p/s rack? Am I at least good to move on to double adjustable Konis and spindles?

[Papa]

You can pretty much do everything on the front suspension and still get the rack installed afterwards. Just don't install the radiator aluminum or splash guards so you have access from all angles. There are just two bolts that hold the rack in.

[460.465USMC]

I'm late to the party, but a warm welcome to you and your son! How great it is to take on a project like this with him. You guys are going to have a blast IMHO.

You've had some great advice already from a few of the forum heavy weights--they've helped me as well! You're in good hands. As you progress, I think you'll find the pieces will start to connect in your mind over time, and become a little less intimidating. The F5 manual is far from perfect, but I consider it a great resource for new builders (like I was!), or those without much mechanical experience (like me!). I look forward to following along.

[Afdent11]

You can pretty much do everything on the front suspension and still get the rack installed afterwards. Just don't install the radiator aluminum or splash guards so you have access from all angles. There are just two bolts that hold the rack in.

Okay great. Thank you!