Project Deimos: An LS '65 Coupe Build: Engine no longer overheating!

[Jeff Kleiner]

...Just last night I realized that I was supposed to put thread sealer on the flywheel bolts. It will leak oil without them...

Confirm that with your engine builder Jim. This is true for for 302 Windsors but not 351s however I can't speak for stroker crankshafts.

Jeff

[JimStone]

Confirm that with your engine builder Jim. This is true for for 302 Windsors but not 351s however I can't speak for stroker crankshafts.

Jeff

Hey Jeff

Blueprint actually put a nice big tag on the back of the engine stating specifically the crank/flywheel bolts needed sealer to prevent oil leakage.

Of course, I cut the tag off to paint the engine then completely forgot about it. Yesterday, I found the darn tag under some towels.

[JimStone]

I've got to try and do that through the top of the trans tunnel. I'm not removing the transmission.

Good luck with that.

The cross bar is right over one of the shifter plate bolts (for me at least), so I don't know how you'll get that off.

I'm not sure how you'd get access without cutting that bar or dropping the trans

Edit: maybe if you drop the transmission mount cross brace and loosen the motor mount nuts, you might be able to tilt the transmission down just enough to access it

[lewma]

Ugh

[JimStone]

I had the engine/trans/clutch back apart in order to add PTFE thread sealant on the flywheel bolts into the crank. 5 hours of work because I didn't follow Blueprints warning tags. But necessary so it doesn't leak oil.


Drivetrain is back in the car, but now I have another concern.

How much exposed slip yoke is there supposed to be on the driveshaft before the seal on the transmission?

Mine is so close it's squishing the seal. Without the seal, there is 1/2 inch of clearance to the tail of the transmission









I've measured the slip yoke and transmission splines. It's not even close to bottoming out, so that's not a concern.

The seal will be toast if I don't trim it back.

But is this okay?

The only thing I can think to make this better would be to have the driveshaft shortened an inch, or move the engine forward an inch. I really don't want to do either

Opinions are appreciated!

[edwardb]

Somewhere around 3/4" of exposed slip joint is what you should see. Not super critical for an IRS setup like yours. But normally you need at least that much to get the driveshaft in and out without taking other stuff apart. Plus it shouldn't be tight against the seal like that. Fix it right with the proper driveshaft length. I wouldn't recommend messing with the seal. Moving the engine is way more work plus has other consequences.

[burchfieldb]

Did FFR send you the wrong drive shaft by mistake?

[JimStone]

Somewhere around 3/4" of exposed slip joint is what you should see. Not super critical for an IRS setup like yours. But normally you need at least that much to get the driveshaft in and out without taking other stuff apart. Plus it shouldn't be tight against the seal like that. Fix it right with the proper driveshaft length. I wouldn't recommend messing with the seal. Moving the engine is way more work plus has other consequences.

Thank you Paul

I'm going to change the driveshaft (again)

Did FFR send you the wrong drive shaft by mistake?

When I ordered my kit, Dan Golub said for my LS/T-56/IRS that a 9.75" driveshaft was needed. It looks like I really need the smallest one FFR lists, 8.325"


Welp, anyone need a "9.75" driveshaft?

[PNWTim]

That's a bummer. I just called them last Friday to confirm I have the correct drive shaft for my Coyote/T-56 arrangement (which I do). It is the one you currently have but I would think the shorter one is a better option. That seal would last about 3 blocks as is.

[JimStone]

From 10 feet back, doesn't look like I've done much in the past month. But little things are getting done that seem to take more time than you'd think.



Finally got the right driveshaft installed. Only took 3 attempts. It's such an itty bitty thing. 8.375".

Now there is the appropriate 3/4 to 1 inch slip yoke showing past the seal.







I've got 2 driveshaft listed in the "for sale" section of the forum if anyone's interested...





With that done, I was finally able to torque down motor and trans mount bolts for hopefully the last time. Then I could get to work on hooking up all the sensors, wires, hoses, to the engine. Also finalize the front accessory drive.







Fuel lines to the regulator then return back to the fuel tank. And line from the regulator to the fuel rails. I have a fuel pressure sensor right before the fuel rail that feeds a gauge at my secondary gauge panel.






Here you can see the Moroso catch can within the PCV/ventilation system lines. For my LS engine, there isn't really a PCV "valve" per se. It's just a barbed tube that comes out of the driver's side valve cover with a restrictor orifice to regulate air flow.
From there it runs to my catch can then into the intake manifold. I did convert everything from rubber hose to AN lines, which I much prefer the look of.

Also have a 200 amp fuse for the alternator mounted to the firewall. That then connects to the battery side of the battery cut-off switch





I ditched the kit supplied corrugated radiator hose and instead used AutoPlumb AN conversion fittings and 20AN hose for my radiator lines. Those hoses are pretty stiff so I'm interested to see how the waterneck to AN fittings hold up. It looks pretty cool though.

[JimStone]

The LS3 uses a "surge tank" in the coolant system. It's the tank to the right in the following picture. It's plumbed into the heater hose circuit and has the radiator cap, which is the highest part of the coolant system. A steam vent hose connects to the surge tank from the driver's side cylinder head. Normally all this is rubber hose, but I converted it all to AN






I cut a 90 degree, 4 inch aluminum tube to make the air intake. I'll be powder coating it eventually . Using a K&N air filter at the end.

The small black reservoir, mounted between the driver's side frame rails, is a Chase Bays windshield washer fluid reservoir and pump.









Now I'm working on getting the front footboox panels final mounted so I can finish the heater hose and AC lines. Also finishing the engine wire harness routing.

When that's done, I'll be pretty darn close to First Start. Can't wait!

[JTG]

Finally got the right driveshaft installed. Only took 3 attempts. It's such an itty bitty thing. 8.375".

Now there is the appropriate 3/4 to 1 inch slip yoke showing past the seal.

My son worked for a diesel mechanic over the summer where the average driveshaft length is about 1-1/2 miles. He was really amused to see the tiny driveshaft for the coupe, but in comparison to yours our version looks enormous!!

[PNWTim]

I really like the washer reservoir and pump. Curious which bracket you used to mount it? I have also never seen and external surge tank. My steam line was plumbed into my radiator which must have an integrated one? Probably not possible with the limited space in these builds.

You are making great progress! Maybe first start will be an early Christmas?

[JimStone]

My son worked for a diesel mechanic over the summer where the average driveshaft length is about 1-1/2 miles. He was really amused to see the tiny driveshaft for the coupe, but in comparison to yours our version looks enormous!!

With how relatively small the LS is compared to a Coyote, I'm surprised at how much shorter my driveshaft is. Maybe the GM T56 is longer than the Ford?

Anyway, have fun with your build!

I really like the washer reservoir and pump. Curious which bracket you used to mount it? I have also never seen and external surge tank. My steam line was plumbed into my radiator which must have an integrated one? Probably not possible with the limited space in these builds.

You are making great progress! Maybe first start will be an early Christmas?

There are definitely different ways to rig up the cooling system,. Here's the diagram that I've mostly replicated. It does show the steam vent first going to the radiator, then a vent to the surge tank. I instead just sent the steam directly to the surge tank.






First start by Christmas I think is possible. But then again, I always underestimate how long it takes me to do things. It amazes me at how quickly others can go.

[460.465USMC]

From 10 feet back, doesn't look like I've done much in the past month. But little things are getting done that seem to take more time than you'd think.

I hear you. I can appreciate the thoughtfulness and time it takes to implement the build the way you want it. Those "mods" / upgrades take time as well. Especially, when you get to the end, chomping at the bit to get it on the road. But the punch list seems to grow and grow.

I think you're making great progress, and I'm enjoying all of the cool touches you're adding. Build on!

[lewma]

Great progress Jim!

[neilkuy]

I spent quite a bit of time looking at the cooling system since the LS setup is very different. I will find out if it is right when it regulates (or not) the temp well.
I used a similar approach for the cooling system. I got a custom radiator so the ports are both on the right side to make plumbing a little easier. My steam port T’s into a line that comes from the radiator and sends to the surge tank. I reasoned that since the radiator is lower than the top of the engine, routing it there wouldn’t do what the diagram intends. My surge tank is the highest point and the only fill port so I think it should be ok. I have had mine running and noticed that the steam vent has fluid running through it constantly. Especially when the thermostat is closed because the line from the radiator to the surge tank becomes a very small bypass to the thermostat.

My setup is an LS and a t56, I had to cut down my driveshaft to 5 3/16” to fit. Just had mine rolling under its own power for the first time this week.
Congrats on the progress. You are quickly going to surpass my progress!

[Mattimous]

Hi, I'm in West Michigan also building a LS/T56 coupe. I came across the same issue with the driveshaft seal and should be getting the correct length here soon. I have a question regarding the clearance on the passenger side of the transmission, did you have clearance issues with yours?
Mine seems to be touching on the passenger side frame around where the cross member bolts in as shown here
trans clearance.jpg

is this why you made the additional slots in the transmission cross member shown here?
cross member.png

Thanks, Matt

[JimStone]

Hi, I'm in West Michigan also building a LS/T56 coupe. I came across the same issue with the driveshaft seal and should be getting the correct length here soon. I have a question regarding the clearance on the passenger side of the transmission, did you have clearance issues with yours?
Mine seems to be touching on the passenger side frame around where the cross member bolts in as shown here
trans clearance.jpg

is this why you made the additional slots in the transmission cross member shown here?
cross member.png

Thanks, Matt

Hey Matt, and welcome to the Forum!

Lots of LS/T56 Coupes being built right now, which is cool



Yes, the passenger side of the T56 is very tight. Honestly, I don't think I even realized just how tight it was until I climbed under there just now to take some pictures. I had the Engine/trans in and out three times without a problem. Better lucky than good!



Here is a pic of just how close the transmission gets to the passenger side cross member mount. I'm sure either the mount and/or transmission case could be grinded down a few mm if needed.





Here's another place on the lateral passenger side of the trans that nearly hits the frame






The slots I made in my modified trans mount cross member/bracket were needed because that's where the trans mount bolts naturally aligned when I had the engine bolted in. At least for me, the FFR supplied bracket just wouldn't work without modification.

I actually later had to enlarge my slots because I was off when I modified the bracket. Here's whatt I ended up with

[Mattimous]

Thank you for the quick reply and getting out there to get some pictures, both locations are quite tight for me also. I think I will trim down the spot by the cross member as it is basically touching in my installation.

[JimStone]

Brief update

I have wanted to change out as many rubber hoses to AN braided hoses and AN fittings as possible. That includes the heater hoses. Earlier, I yanked out the LS's pressed-in barb fittings from the water pump, tapped NPT threads into the outlets, and installed AN connections. But converting the heater core side to AN proved much harder since I also wanted to hide the heater valve in the footbox (I'm keeping both footbox tops clean/bare). After numerous different failed configurations and much head scratching, I finally did it.





Basically, it goes: heater core --> short rubber hoses--> valve --> short rubber hoses through NotcHead firewall rings --> push lock to 12AN adaptors

As you can see, it's extremely tight. I even had to notch the frame rail for the valve to fit in there.

It could have gone easier if I hadn't already drilled the grommet holes in the aluminum panel a year ago before I decided to do all this. Instead, the holes weren't really lined up optimally




The gold/tan sleeves are basalt fiber heat shields that I'm using on sections of hoses and wires that route near the headers. Who knew they could make fiber out of lava rocks!?




Other items:

Installed the driveshaft safety loop. Made a bracket out of angle iron. Could have welded it instead of bolted, but I suck at welding





I'm ready to bleed the master cylinders then clutch/brake lines, but I knew that brake fluid would inevitably leak onto the fuse box immediately below. So I made a little shield that would direct fluid away from the connections






Lastly,

I've been trying to finish up the footboxes, so I started upholstering the inside panels. I'm using psuedo leather vinyl that matches my seats very closely. Got it from Sailrite. Love that company.





It's not perfect, but nothing I do is. I'm satisfied with the effort.

[PNWTim]

Your hoses look good Jim. I love the AN look but I am deep enough into some of my stuff I'm just not willing to change directions. Your brake fluid shield is pretty clever and even if it prevents one drop it's worth it. And I love Sailrite as well. They have a lot going on.

[JimStone]

Thanks Tim,

The AN stuff is nice, but honestly I could have put some sort of braided fiber sleeves over the rubber hoses then Gates Powergrip'ed the ends and it would have looked just as nice. Would have saved a bunch of $ in fittings (those add up quickly) and hoses

Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Fiberglass-Sh...1&sr=8-17&th=1



But I really do love making AN hose endings. It's very satisfying

[JimStone]

Public Service Announcement

Check your AC hoses and fittings for mismatch reduced and standard barrier BEFORE crimping




I didn't even know there was such a thing as reduced barrier vs standard until I was cruising along crimping hose fittings nicely with my excellent Mastercool imitation AC hose crimper, made by Vevor (my fave discount tool supplier), when I crimped this dud




I was stumped. Bad fitting? All the previous were good

Used ChatGPT to analyze pictures of the hoses sent with the FFR A/C kit. The #6 and #8 hoses are standard barrier. The #10? Reduced barrier.

All the included fittings were standard barrier. So, the above is what you get when you mismatch



Mildly annoyed, I now have reduced barrier fittings coming in the mail

[burchfieldb]

Looking good Jim, you are making some quick progress. I have not touched mine in a couple of months. I noticed your rollover switch is mounted horizontal, I think thoses want to be vertical to avoid any nuisance tripping.

[JTG]

Regarding the different types of AC hoses, did FFR send the wrong thing or is it just that this system uses both? Just want to make sure I understand when we get to that point.

Thanks,
Jon

[JimStone]

Looking good Jim, you are making some quick progress. I have not touched mine in a couple of months. I noticed your rollover switch is mounted horizontal, I think thoses want to be vertical to avoid any nuisance tripping.

Shoot! I didn't know or think of that. Will definitely fix it. Don't want to be stalling out every time I hit the gas. Thanks!

Regarding the different types of AC hoses, did FFR send the wrong thing or is it just that this system uses both? Just want to make sure I understand when we get to that point.

Thanks,
Jon

They must have put the wrong #10 hose in my kit. All the fittings and other hoses are standard barrier, but the #10 hose they sent was reduced.

[PNWTim]

That's a bummer Jim. I used reduced barrier hose in my last build and it was great. Smaller physically, bends well, etc. But here would be no reason F5 would send a mixed bag so it's most likely a mistake. A reduced barrier hose wouldn't fit in a standard fitting very well, i.e. there would be space between the outside hose wall and the fitting.

[JimStone]

I've been waiting to reveal these custom badges until my engine compartment was mostly put together, which is now (sans a few AC hose connections)

I'm no graphic designer, so thanks goes to ChatGPT. I used SendCutSend for manufacturing, which is an awesome resource with very reasonable prices for low volume orders.

Still deciding where else on the car for badging. I don't want to be obnoxious, so it will be minimal

[bishes]

I don't want to be obnoxious, so it will be minimal

Suuure, nothing obnoxious about a 427 LS in a Coupe!

Love the badging, it's a really nice touch! I just used Send Cut Send for the first time for some random brackets just to get an idea of the quality of the parts, I'll definitely be ordering more later on!

[JimStone]

Suuure, nothing obnoxious about a 427 LS in a Coupe!

Love the badging, it's a really nice touch! I just used Send Cut Send for the first time for some random brackets just to get an idea of the quality of the parts, I'll definitely be ordering more later on!

Thanks Dan!

Yeah, I guess the whole resto-moding of a 1960's racecar thing is already over the top.

So might as well go crazy

[JimStone]

Attempted to bleed the brake and clutch lines using a pressure bleeding setup I concocted. The bleeding went about as well as could be expected, which is it was pretty terrible.

The pressure bleeder did great though. Made it by fitting a tire valve stem into a spare Tilton reservoir cap, a locking tire air chuck on the air hose and an air gauge/dial to control the pressure.







The first attempt was with the clutch line. Immediately leaked at two spots. Fortunately, it was just due to me forgetting to tighten two AN fittings on the reservoir lines (all my lines are AN or stainless tube with 37 degree flares). After that, the clutch line bled great and I got a nice, firm clutch pedal.


The rear brakes went great. No leaks at any of my flares.



Then came the front brakes....



Here is how my setup looks:



Uses a 1/8" NPT to 3AN adapter in the MC output, then into the stainless 37 degree flared line and tube nut.





Here is what brake fluid seeping overnight through Permatex thread sealant looks like





The leaking is coming from MC 1/8 NPT threads and it's irreparable.

I'm certain I'm to blame, not Wilwood. I remember many months ago originally tightening the adapter to the back of the MC and thinking "wow, this adapter screwed in a lot further than the other one". I basically hubbed it. I'm thinking that I over-torqued the stainless steel fitting into the soft aluminum MC threads. Not the first time I've broken parts by stupidly over-torquing


So, that MC is in the garbage and another is on its way. Sticking with Wilwood though!!

[460.465USMC]

Oh, man! You're almost there. With the brake line tightening especially, I doubted my internal torque calibration. I'm sure you'll be leak free in no time. Plus, all of your line/connection assembly is flawless. Well done!

[JimStone]

Oh, man! You're almost there. With the brake line tightening especially, I doubted my internal torque calibration. I'm sure you'll be leak free in no time. Plus, all of your line/connection assembly is flawless. Well done!

Thanks Chris!

Yeah, I'm actually really proud that none of my tube flares leaked. Crossing my fingers on yet to be tested fuel, power steering, coolant, and A/C lines

[PNWTim]

Whenever you're tightening a hard metal into a softer one, stop when you think it's not tight enough, it probably is. With brake lines especially, snug is typically tight enough. If it weeps or drips, an 1/8th of a turn will typically fix it. You'll get it squared away.

[JimStone]

Whenever you're tightening a hard metal into a softer one, stop when you think it's not tight enough, it probably is. With brake lines especially, snug is typically tight enough. If it weeps or drips, an 1/8th of a turn will typically fix it. You'll get it squared away.

I'll probably have to learn the hard way another dozen or so times before it gets thru my skull



On the bright side, I received the new MC and have it back in the pedal box. Will let the thread sealer harden up and try bleeding again tomorrow

[Nigel Allen]

I'll probably have to learn the hard way another dozen or so times before it gets thru my skull



On the bright side, I received the new MC and have it back in the pedal box. Will let the thread sealer harden up and try bleeding again tomorrow

As a good friend of mine says "it's called paying for your education" whenever I stuff up something expensive

[Blitzboy54]

Man, your engine is an absolute thing of beauty! Really well done

[JimStone]

As a good friend of mine says "it's called paying for your education" whenever I stuff up something expensive

Good one Nigel

Working on my Master's degree in the science of breaking things

Man, your engine is an absolute thing of beauty! Really well done

Thank you! I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. Old school guys will hate it. But I wanted this car to be completely unique and my own.

[Skuzzy]

Just to be fair. "Old School guys" is not really accurate. I consider myself to be an "old school" guy, yet look at the electronics I am designing and building for my car.

I think the people who would have mixed feelings about putting the LS in a Coupe are the guys who really want to honor the original Daytona. That covers a pretty wide age group. Then again, the only thing shared between the original 289 and the Coyote is the manufacturer.

I think you have done a nice job.