Andrew's MK4 Roadster Build Thread - Apr 11 Update

[AndrewIdaho]

You're gonna love that ProFlo4. I love mine! Holler if you have any questions before first start. You will need the serial number of your ProFlo4 ECU when you fire up the app on your phone. The serial number is on a sticker on the ECU.

Greg

Thanks for the heads up on the serial number!

[gbranham]

Thanks for the heads up on the serial number!

You bet. I installed my ECU on the inside of the firewall, passenger side, and had to unbolt it from the firewall to get the serial number off of the bottom of it. Not a big deal, but I wish I would've known I needed that serial number before I bolted it up.

[JMD]

Good to see the progress! I hated the supplied power steering hoses so made my own from leftover PTFE stainless hose I used for the fuel lines. I love a simple and clean engine bay.

That mechanical linkage sure is a project unto itself, isn't it? I think it took me 2 (short) days to get mine finished, but it's really great to operate. I think you'll enjoy it.

[AndrewIdaho]

Since my last post, I was able to get the Proflow4, Fuel Pump and Fan wired up and operating with only minor issues. The PF4 was missing a cap on DS Fuel Rail that caused the PF4 ECU to shutdown the fuel pump as it could not see any pressure. After cleaning up the mess, I capped the end with an AN-6 cap and the pressure came right up. I filled the engine with fluids and today was able to get the engine to start on first turn of the ignition. I inspected for leaks and none were obvious.

Video of the first start posted on you tube: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Xygo7RXb4jg

I used distilled water in the cooling system in case there was a catastrophic leak (thankfully there was none). Tomorrows project is to drain the water and replace it with a 50-50 mix of Dexcool/Distilled Water.

I am very happy with my progress. With winter approaching and an unheated garage, I suspect my progress will begin to slow.

Thanks for looking and comments and questions are welcome.

Last but most importantly, my thanks to the veterans among us for their service.

Best Regards, Andrew

[cc2Arider]

Wowsers! That's great progress on your build Andrew

I also hope to get a 1st start before 2025 is over...

Craig C

[AndrewIdaho]

Wowsers! That's great progress on your build Andrew

I also hope to get a 1st start before 2025 is over...

Craig C

Thanks Craig.
I appreciate the support. I have been following your build thread regularly and the modifications you are adding and your skills to bring them to reality is something I can only aspire to. Keep up the great work.
Best Regards, Andrew

[Mike.Bray]

What a greet sound, nothing like the rumble of a pushrod V8 in a Cobra.

Before you do too much get your timing light and set the timing. It sounds a tad retarded.

[AndrewIdaho]

What a greet sound, nothing like the rumble of a pushrod V8 in a Cobra.

Before you do too much get your timing light and set the timing. It sounds a tad retarded.

Thanks Mike,

In discussion with Aaron at Forte's, he indicated that when running low fuel pressure (43 psi) this has caused unstable idle on Ford SBF with the PF4 and suggested 58 psi. I will bump that up first and then check the timing (after acquiring a timing light - looking at Innova 5568 off of amazon; other recommendations welcome).

Best Regards, Andrew

[Mike.Bray]

Thanks Mike,

In discussion with Aaron at Forte's, he indicated that when running low fuel pressure (43 psi) this has caused unstable idle on Ford SBF with the PF4 and suggested 58 psi. I will bump that up first and then check the timing (after acquiring a timing light - looking at Innova 5568 off of amazon; other recommendations welcome).

Best Regards, Andrew

ProFlo4 should be set to 58 PSI fuel pressure. Make sure that's set in the ECU also.

[TrackDay17]

Sounds great Andrew ! Must be especially rewarding after your shipping problems.

[JMD]

Sounds good...congratulations! If your 302 is like mine it will idle low and slow at 10 degrees advance at idle (which sounds amazing and is where mine was set when I got it from Forte), but I've found my engine pulls better through the rev range if it starts at 14 degrees initial timing. If it's a Blueprint engine make sure the vacuum advance is disconnected and your max advance is around 34 degrees and you should be good to go!

[AndrewIdaho]

Sounds good...congratulations! If your 302 is like mine it will idle low and slow at 10 degrees advance at idle (which sounds amazing and is where mine was set when I got it from Forte), but I've found my engine pulls better through the rev range if it starts at 14 degrees initial timing. If it's a Blueprint engine make sure the vacuum advance is disconnected and your max advance is around 34 degrees and you should be good to go!

Hi John,

Thanks for the review and the input. My engine is a Ford Performance Boss 302 that Forte built for me that included an Edelbrock ProFlo4 EFI so I am not sure if the the tuning recommendation you are providing is applicable or not. Once I got the fuel pressure set correctly at 58 psi, I then used the Edelbrock app to make sure everything was configured properly. At first I could not get the engine timing adjusted (could not see the mark) to the set up app's requirement of 16 degrees and the engine idled terribly (worse than before and would some times die). Being a newbie, I stopped and shut everything down so I could research what I was seeing as I figured I was doing something wrong. After searching the web, I discovered that the Boss 302 (also called 302HO) has the same firing order as the 351 and not the stock 302. I reran the configuration utility setting the correct firing order (351) and was able to easily set the timing as directed (12 degrees advance). I set the idle target to 700 rpm (some what arbitrary choice as I have no experience to set it any differently) and after finishing the setup, the engine idles very nicely (better than the first start idle) and starts right up on the first crank. Let me know if my idle target is too high or low or if you see something I have missed.

Best Regards, Andrew

[JMD]

It very well may be different with it being a Boss 302, but probably not much. I’m not sure how the ProFlo handles timing but it sounds like you’ve got it dialed in pretty well. There really is no set place where idle is supposed to be. Engines vary widely based on cam profile, heads, etc. Wherever it seems happy. Just don’t let it idle so slowly that your oil pressure drops too low. I like mine around 800, but whatever floats your boat. A slow idle can sound pretty sick. I would also double check your AFR settings to make sure it’s targeting a safe value on heavy acceleration and WOT. The Snipers come with a wizard tune that is ok, but there’s a lot to be gained from tweaking it. I’m not sure how it works for the ProFlo.

[gbranham]

FWIW, I have the idle on my mild-cammed 427 with ProFlo4 set to 825rpm. Ive fiddled with the idle anywhere from 750 to 900, and I like the idle at 825 best. It idles easily down to 750, and even as low as 725, but 825 works well and keep oil pressure happy.

[AndrewIdaho]

FWIW, I have the idle on my mild-cammed 427 with ProFlo4 set to 825rpm. Ive fiddled with the idle anywhere from 750 to 900, and I like the idle at 825 best. It idles easily down to 750, and even as low as 725, but 825 works well and keep oil pressure happy.

It very well may be different with it being a Boss 302, but probably not much. I’m not sure how the ProFlo handles timing but it sounds like you’ve got it dialed in pretty well. There really is no set place where idle is supposed to be. Engines vary widely based on cam profile, heads, etc. Wherever it seems happy. Just don’t let it idle so slowly that your oil pressure drops too low. I like mine around 800, but whatever floats your boat. A slow idle can sound pretty sick. I would also double check your AFR settings to make sure it’s targeting a safe value on heavy acceleration and WOT. The Snipers come with a wizard tune that is ok, but there’s a lot to be gained from tweaking it. I’m not sure how it works for the ProFlo.

John and Greg,

Thanks for the great feedback. I am working on getting the oil pressure gauge wired in temporarily so I can check the oil pressure. In my reading, there are warnings that some electrical gauges are not very reliable. Is there a recommended reliable gauge to use? From my reading, it looks like I should target the oil pressure at idle for 20-25psi so that is where I will start pending feedback. Once I get the idle oil pressure set and verified, I will look at the AFR as I am not inclined to run the engine at WOT until I know the oil pressure looks acceptable.

Best Regards, Andrew

[cc2Arider]

Hi Andrew,

Just a thought: I wondered about the "calibration" for the Speed Hut gauges and sending units, and I was planning to prime my oiling system since my engine has been in my possession but not run for 2 years now...

So, I simply got a barb fitting and adapted it to the oil pressure sending unit and pumped up my "Garden sprayer oil-priming" setup with the gauge hooked up and powered by a temporary 12v source. This confirmed that the oil pressure gauge and sending unit pressure values were reasonable (as compared to a simple mechanical pressure gauge). This might not be convenient for you since you already tightened down your sending unit to your engine, but you could put this in your "back pocket" for later

Craig C

[AndrewIdaho]

Thanks for that insight Craig. You are correct that I have the sending unit tightened down but I will keep your technique in mind should the oil pressure not look right and I need to trace down why.

Best Regards, Andrew

[AndrewIdaho]

Today, I was able to hook up the oil pressure, water temperature and voltage gauges using the packaging as a temporary support:

TemporaryGaugeSetup.jpg

I fired up the engine, all gauges responded as expected, I set the idle RPM target in the ECU to 750 and recorded the following:

RPM, Oil Pressure
750 RPM, 40 psi
1400 RPM, 50 psi
4000 RPM, 60 psi
5000 RPM, 63 psi

The pressure at idle (750) was a higher than I anticipated but I recollect that when Forte's team talked to me about the dyno results, he mentioned that Ford had improved the oil pump and that resulted in a little added horsepower. I wonder if it also boosted the pressure at idle.

I also noted the AFR as reported by the ECU at 13.4 which I believe is acceptable.

If you see anything of concern, let me know.

Best Regards, Andrew

[JMD]

Oil pressure looks good. I would set the AFR at WOT or low manifold kpa closer to 12.5:1. Just for safety. Mine was around 13:1 from Forte, but I think going a bit richer gives you more margin for real world variables and won't have a noticeable effect on power. Better rich than lean.

[gbranham]

In my reading, there are warnings that some electrical gauges are not very reliable. Is there a recommended reliable gauge to use?

I just rely on my Speedhut oil pressure gauge on my dash. I have no reason to believe it's not accurate.

Greg

[AndrewIdaho]

Hello All,

As predicted, my build progress has been slowed by the colder weather. That said, I got lucky and we had a couple of weeks where there were a few days in the mid 50's (as opposed to the low 30's) and I was able to get the cockpit floors installed and the remainder of the aluminum fitted, drilled and mounted with clecos.

IMG_0737.jpg IMG_0739.jpg

I was also able to get the bezel for the seat heater switches and USB charge port positioned so that I can prepare to drill out the aluminum to allow the switches and USB port to fit.
IMG_0740.jpg

Weather is forecast to be warmer for the next few days so I should be able to make some more progress.

Thanks for looking.

Andrew

[PMD24]

Great progress Andrew. I just looked back through your posts to see if you had provided any details on that black bezel for the seat heater switches but couldn't locate anything. I have to admit that I did get sidetracked. Had to watch the start video again, and study your awesome electrical schematics, and then read the comments again on engine tuning, and, and, ... Anyway, did you make the bezel?

Thanks,

Pat

[AndrewIdaho]

Great progress Andrew. I just looked back through your posts to see if you had provided any details on that black bezel for the seat heater switches but couldn't locate anything. I have to admit that I did get sidetracked. Had to watch the start video again, and study your awesome electrical schematics, and then read the comments again on engine tuning, and, and, ... Anyway, did you make the bezel?

Thanks,

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the support and sorry I did not describe the panel fabrication earlier. I did not fabricate the panel. I found that NewWireMarine does custom dash panels and have an online design tool for simple panels ( https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/). I played with the tool a little bit to get the size of holes I needed in the smallest panel I could specify. It took me a few iterations one evening and I was able to get it dialed in. The panel is some form of plastic composite and I was pleased the way it turned out. The one downside is that it was expensive (especially shipping) but it gave me a very nice looking panel that I could not have fabricated with my rudimentary skills or with out having to buy a 3d printer. If I had a 3d printer and the skills to use it, I probably would have taken that route.

I hope that helps.

Best Regards, Andrew

[Nigel Allen]

Hi Pat,

Thanks for the support and sorry I did not describe the panel fabrication earlier. I did not fabricate the panel. I found that NewWireMarine does custom dash panels and have an online design tool for simple panels ( https://newwiremarine.com/product/e-panel-builder/). I played with the tool a little bit to get the size of holes I needed in the smallest panel I could specify. It took me a few iterations one evening and I was able to get it dialed in. The panel is some form of plastic composite and I was pleased the way it turned out. The one downside is that it was expensive (especially shipping) but it gave me a very nice looking panel that I could not have fabricated with my rudimentary skills or with out having to buy a 3d printer. If I had a 3d printer and the skills to use it, I probably would have taken that route.

I hope that helps.

Best Regards, Andrew

I have used these guys many times. Superb quality.

https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/

Cheers,

Nige

[PMD24]

Andrew and Nigel, thank you. I'll check out both.

Andrew, you got me thinking when you mentioned 3-D. My nephew has a small 3D printing business. I'll run this by him as well.

Pat

[AndrewIdaho]

Another beautiful sunny day (62 degrees). I was able to finish mounting the USB port and seat heater switches.
IMG_0741.jpg

Once the silicone dries, the next step will be to get them wired in (assuming the weather stays like today).

Andrew

[AndrewIdaho]

It has finally warmed up enough that I can work comfortably in the garage again. During the lull, I studied what was need to be done next as well as had cataract surgery on my eyes so hopefully I can drill holes with a little better precision.

Through March I worked on getting the dash switch holes drilled and switches temporarily installed. I am happy with the location and symmetry though the headlight switch needed a large washer to have it snug up. (Am I missing a bezel?). I am using the Mircroflex turn signal switch, controller and mounting bracket and got them installed using the wires from the steering column connector to make the needed connections and minimize the amount of wire splicing I would need to do.
Switches3.jpg

I added and wired up several relays to the system for reverse light, starter control from clutch switch or neutral switch, courtesy light as I am adding extra lights and additional acc drive for the EPB and power amp in the trunk I alluded to awhile ago.
AddedRelays.jpg

I am about 80% done with the wiring behind the dash (heater, wipers, EPB Switch, High Beam Switch done) with the turn switch and the sensor feeds left to complete. The following are a sequence of pictures from Driver Side to Passenger side:
FuelCutOffHazardSwtch.jpg SwitchesWired2.jpg PF4ECU_HeatCtrl.jpg

Once the wiring is done, I am currently planning to dress the wires with cable ties into neat bundles and not reuse the wire loom. If there is a reason I should not do this please let me know.

Questions and comments welcome.

Best Regards, Andrew

[AndrewIdaho]

I am still progressing the dash wiring.

I found an issue with the wipers not working and, with help from the forum members, I was able to work around it. More details can be found in this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...res-How-to-Fix

I then wired in the MicroFlex labs turn signal into the controller. I mocked up the rear and front turn lights using wire nuts as a temporary connection method and then tested the brake, turn signal and flasher functionality and all worked as expected.

TurnSignal.jpg RearLightMockUp.jpg FrontTSLightMockUp.jpg

Next steps are to mock up the head lights and confirm the head light system work (on/off/high/low beam). I spent an hour or so trial fitting the headlight into its bucket. The instructions are not super clear for this newbie, but after some trial and error, I think I have it figured out:

HeadLightTrialFit.jpg

I notice that the surround ring counter sink screw diameter seems too large for the boss and it might lead to a cracked boss. I think I am going to replace this screw with one diameter size smaller.

Let me know if there are comments, suggestion or questions.

Thanks, Andrew

[edwardb]

...I notice that the surround ring counter sink screw diameter seems too large for the boss and it might lead to a cracked boss. I think I am going to replace this screw with one diameter size smaller.

It's pretty soft plastic and the screw cuts into it OK. Unless your received something different than what I have experience with, it's not a problem. You don't want to lose that ring. I've heard it's not available separately. Do what you're comfortable with though.

[Nigel Allen]

Can always drill a slightly larger hole in the plastic.

[AndrewIdaho]

It's pretty soft plastic and the screw cuts into it OK. Unless your received something different than what I have experience with, it's not a problem. You don't want to lose that ring. I've heard it's not available separately. Do what you're comfortable with though.

Thanks Paul for the feedback that the plastic is soft enough to support the screw. Attached is a photo with the screws I received with the two circled that I believe should be with the bosses (circled in second picture).

LightScrews.jpg HeadLightBosses.jpg

Are these the same screws that you have experienced?


Thanks, Andrew

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul for the feedback that the plastic is soft enough to support the screw. Attached is a photo with the screws I received with the two circled that I believe should be with the bosses (circled in second picture).

LightScrews.jpg HeadLightBosses.jpg

Are these the same screws that you have experienced?


Thanks, Andrew

The plated oval head (with countersink) screws are for the headlight trim ring. One for each headlight. There are two bosses circled in the second picture. The horizontal boss, lower one in your picture, is for the trim ring. The other screws hold the headlight assembly into the bucket. Several bosses like the second one you pictured. After you screw these in the first time they fit perfectly. Literally thousands of these have been built. Less than that by me but the screws and bosses are fine as is. One issue with the headlight buckets that builders sometimes mention though is the little clips that hold the headlight into the mounting ring. Those are pretty fragile. I haven't broken any lately so maybe something changed. Just watch for that.

[AndrewIdaho]

The plated oval head (with countersink) screws are for the headlight trim ring. One for each headlight. There are two bosses circled in the second picture. The horizontal boss, lower one in your picture, is for the trim ring. The other screws hold the headlight assembly into the bucket. Several bosses like the second one you pictured. After you screw these in the first time they fit perfectly. Literally thousands of these have been built. Less than that by me but the screws and bosses are fine as is. One issue with the headlight buckets that builders sometimes mention though is the little clips that hold the headlight into the mounting ring. Those are pretty fragile. I haven't broken any lately so maybe something changed. Just watch for that.

Great. Thanks Paul