ATX MKIV #9644 Coyote Build Thread (Index #137) - Trickle Charger Port Added

[cv2065]

Yesterday I had some friends over and even a few folks I didn't know that are just old car heads and wanted to check it out. I followed a checklist for first start that I had put together from a bunch of other posts, and just went down the line. I did forget to pull the cardboard off the radiator on the initial start, but only ran it for a few seconds. We pulled the cardboard for subsequent starts.

My first start checklist: First Start Checklist - FFR Roadster - Darryl

Details:

• Filled tank with about 3 gallons 93 Octane w/ fuel stabilizer
• Primed the fuel lines by turning key to on (not START) - this runs the fuel pump for about 1 sec each time (wait 20 sec between cycles so the computer can reset)
• Checked inertia switch and fuel cut-off switch (ON)
• Car in neutral and clutch depressed
• Crank!

Initially there were no leaks on the fuel lines, coolant connections, or power steering (more on this in the next post). It cranked almost immediately as you can see in the video. It was a great experience and a lot of friends and family were there to celebrate. I ended up cranking it a few times, topping up fluids and monitoring gauges each time.

That’s awesome. Whomever was videoing made sure to get the close up expression after start. As nerve racking as it is, nothing like it. Congrats!

[dbo_texas]

As luck would have it I have 2 unused FFR power steering hoses. If you want one I’m happy to mail it out to you. I ended up with four of them for some reason.

Thanks I appreciate the offer. I just ordered a replacement from Summit along with the KRC fluid so hopefully I’ll be back in business by the end of the week.

[dbo_texas]

Another thing I noticed when turning the steering wheel back and forth to try to bleed the air out. It felt jumpy....almost like the wheel was turning in "detents" instead of one smooth motion. I'm guessing that isn't normal? I attributed it to air moving through the lines but in hindsight I'm wondering if there is something else going on, like a blockage mentioned.

If I keep the cap off the KRC reservoir during engine start, is there a way to see the return line pumping into the reservoir? I assume I should see some flow coming into the KRC reservoir? Any other ways to check if there are blockages?

Also, FFR instructions for the KRC setup say to put the front wheels OFF the ground on jack stands (and rear wheels on the ground). Anyone with a hydroboost setup know if this also applies? I didn't do that initially - I had all 4 wheels on jack stands so for the next go I was planning to do this.

[Mick40]

I bled mine using a drill with the wheels off the ground. The jerkiness disappeared once the air was out of the system.

[dbo_texas]

I bled mine using a drill with the wheels off the ground. The jerkiness disappeared once the air was out of the system.

Thanks for the tip - can you elaborate on this? How did you run the pump using a drill?

[cv2065]

Another thing I noticed when turning the steering wheel back and forth to try to bleed the air out. It felt jumpy....almost like the wheel was turning in "detents" instead of one smooth motion. I'm guessing that isn't normal?

I had the same thing yesterday right before my first go kart. It went away quickly when driving.

[edwardb]

I've done PS on every build but the first one, including one with hydroboost and a couple with KRC. They typically don't require anything special for bleeding. Certainly haven't for me. Don't worry about it at this stage. I'm betting once you drive it around a few times, it will feel fine. Assuming it's plumbed properly. Those KRC setups are first class. Too bad about that hose though.

[dbo_texas]

FYI I had emailed FFR to see if they sell a replacement hose I could purchase, and included a pic of the end of the hose. They agreed it definitely looked like a manufacturing defect and immediately shipped me another hose no charge. Can't beat that customer service! Should get the new hoses & fluid in Thursday and hopefully I'll be to smiling again. Will report back.

[dbo_texas]

All right I got the new power steering hose hooked up and re-topped off the PS fluid. Cranked right up - no leaks. One slightly interesting thing - the oil pressure gauge didn't show a reading the first time I cranked it up. It read zero even after idling for 1-2 minutes. After shutting down, I unplugged & re-plugged in the oil pressure sensor. Also unplugged and re-plugged the gauge connector behind the dash. After starting the 2nd time (the video below), oil pressure came up. There was no knocking in the engine, and oil levels are reading full so I don't think there's an actual problem with the oiling system (i.e. I think it had pressure the entire time).

Could be:
-faulty gauge?
-faulty gauge harness/connector?
-faulty pressure sensor?
-faulting pressure sensor wires/connector?
-any other ideas?

How would I go about trouble-shooting this zero reading intermittently on the oil gauge?

https://youtube.com/shorts/xCLc-DhNi5s

[cv2065]

I went through the same thing. Speedhut gave me some steps to check it by process of elimination. They will ask you if you have to call them for a replacement.

1. Connect only the power to the back of the gauge, disconnecting the sensor harness. Does it full sweep then to zero.
2. Connect power and the harness to the back of the gauge, then disconnect the plug at the sensor. Does gauge full sweep then to zero.
3. Reconnect the plug into the sensor. Does the gauge full sweep then read correctly?

This should give you an idea if you have a gauge or harness issue. You could also move the harness cord around a bit while testing to see if it makes any difference as if it’s intermittent, then that may be harder to diagnose.

[dbo_texas]

I went through the same thing. Speedhut gave me some steps to check it by process of elimination. They will ask you if you have to call them for a replacement.

1. Connect only the power to the back of the gauge, disconnecting the sensor harness. Does it full sweep then to zero.
2. Connect power and the harness to the back of the gauge, then disconnect the plug at the sensor. Does gauge full sweep then to zero.
3. Reconnect the plug into the sensor. Does the gauge full sweep then read correctly?

This should give you an idea if you have a gauge or harness issue. You could also move the harness cord around a bit while testing to see if it makes any difference as if it’s intermittent, then that may be harder to diagnose.

Awesome thanks for the tips here on troubleshooting. I'll give this a try this weekend. If the gauge does not do the sweep in either of those 3 scenarios, does that mean the gauge is faulty and might need to be replaced?

[cv2065]

Awesome thanks for the tips here on troubleshooting. I'll give this a try this weekend. If the gauge does not do the sweep in either of those 3 scenarios, does that mean the gauge is faulty and might need to be replaced?

If it doesn't sweep and reset at zero with the power hooked up with no harness, then it would be the gauge. If it sweeped and reset to zero with power, but not with the harness and power hooked up, then it would be the harness. If it sweeped and reset to zero with the power and harness, but not after you hooked up to the sensor, then it most likely would be the sensor.

[dbo_texas]

So I just was in the process of clearing MIL codes on the Gen2 Coyote for the first time, and I let the engine run long enough to get the coolant temp warm enough to kick on the radiator fan. This is the first time I've let the engine get up to temp (fan kicked on at 75°C, low speed). Anyhow, when I went to shut the engine off, it wouldn't turn off. I had to flip my fuel circuit switch to shut it down. I need some help figuring out what's going on here.

Couple of details about my specific setup:

• Gen2 Coyote
• Stock FFR radiator fan
• Maradyne fan controller
• I added a dash indicator light for "FAN ON", powered directly by the power wire going to the fan....so if the fan is running, the light is on.
• I wired my setup per the diagram below. I wired it per GTBradley's post #52 for Fan Off with Engine Shut Down, which means I have the orange and yellow wires on the Maradyne controller connected to 12V Keyed IGN power (in my case, the RF Harness Orange Coil/EFI wire). The radiator power comes directly from the Coyote ECU harness
• Not sure if this matters, but I have some other items powered by the Orange Coil/EFI wire - reverse lockout module (for T56), footbox blowers (not turned on during the above experience)
• I'm not using the RF DK BLU-COOLING FAN (30A) circuit at all (it's currently disconnected)....I'm letting the Coyote ECU control power to the fan, and the Maradyne unit controls the grounding to the fan (PWM)
• Not using the FUEL PUMP fuse in RF fuse panel...instead I have that repurposed for my seat heaters. I AM using the fuel pump relay in the RF fuse panel (powered by the Coyote fuel pump power DK GREEN WIRE). This eliminates a double-fuse setup and my fuel pump circuit is powered by the Coyote PDB fuse block instead of the RF fuse panel.

I also found this thread from TTimmy which seems to be a similar issue. In his case, he found that he should have connected directly to the blue wire on the fan side of the fan relay, instead he had connected to the green thermometer wire. This resulted in power remaining on his ignition feed after shutting off the ignition switch if the engine was calling for the fan to run. Thus the engine continued to run.

In my situation I'm guessing that something is back-feeding the IGN circuit and keeping power on the IGN circuit even after I turn the key to OFF? I'm guessing this then applies power to the light green Coyote "Ignition Relay Trigger" and keeps the engine running (i.e. ECU doesn't know to shut down). I'm using the TAN-ELECTRIC CHOKE circuit to power that Coyote Ignition Relay Trigger wire. To recap, this ONLY happens after the radiator fan kicks on. If I shut down before it comes up to temp and kicks on the fan, I don't have any issue.

I guess to test/troubleshoot, I could start by pulling the CHOKE fuse. In theory this kills power to the Coyote Ignition Trigger Relay and the engine should shut off right? Then I could do it again (after inserting the CHOKE fuse), and one by one pull the other fuses on the IGN circuits in the RF fuse panel. So that would be the Turn Signal fuse, Fuel Pump fuse (for my seat heaters), and finally the EFI/Coil fuse.

[dbo_texas]

I just tried a couple of things, so adding to the post above:

• Just to be sure, I checked that when the dash light kicks on (@ around 75°C), the actual radiator fan is kicking on. To my surprise, IT IS NOT. This means the Coyote is sending power to the fan (my dash light is connected to that Coyote fan wire), but the Maradyne unit isn't grounding the circuit and turning on the fan. The red light on the Mardyne unit is lit..I'm not sure what that means. It doesn't come with much documentation so I may need to Google that. I did try turning the potentiometer dial on the Maradyne unit...all the way counter clockwise, then all the way clockwise, and the fan never kicks on. So I'm thinking either the fan is bad, or the Maradyne unit isn't working as it should. Can anyone tell me what the expected LED behavior is on the Maradyne controller?
• I confirmed that pulling the CHOKE fuse in the RF panel will kill the engine. This is expected --> it cuts power to the light green Coyote Ignition Relay Trigger wire.
• One by one I pulled the other fuses that are on the same IGN block on the RF fuse panel when Key is OFF. The Turn Signal & Fuel Pump (seat heaters for me) have NO effect, but pulling the EFI/COIL fuse kills the engine. So this 100% confirms that somehow, somewhere, I'm getting feedback from one of the circuits on that fuse (either the T56 reverse lockout module, Footbox blowers, or Maradyne unit). My money's on the Maradyne unit.

I suppose I could disconnect both footbox blower fans and the reverse lockout module (by unplugging @ the transmission solenoid). That should isolate it to the Maradyne unit I'm guessing. At this point I figure I probably have the Maradyne unit wired wrong...so any advice here based on my circuit above would be really appreciated.

[dbo_texas]

Tried a couple of more things:

• It occurred to me that I'm using a 1-wire temp sensor (came w/ Maradyne kit), but the issue is that I have no ground connection directly to the sensor. Normally with the 1-wire sensors they get their ground connection from the the threads going into a grounded port. I'm threading into a plastic port (in-line w/ lower radiator hose), so no dedicated ground. It's a bit confusing to me because the sensor seems to be reading just fine. Temp starts off low, then over just a few minutes will quickly creep up to 80°C. I tried a couple of things just to see what would happen...neither made a difference. I still don't understand why the sensor is working as it should with no ground connection so if anyone can explain this, please do!
  
  (1) I connected a wire from the battery negative directly to the brass body of the sensor to provide a dedicated ground for the sensor. This resulted in no changes to the behavior (gauge still works, fan still never comes on, engine won't shut off when key turned to OFF).
  (2) I then wanted to see if maybe the sensor was bad so I disconnected the ring lug from the sensor and connected that directly to chassis ground. Same behavior (no radiator fan turning on, no engine shutdown on key OFF)
• Next, I wanted to see if I could isolate which of the IGN circuits that are connected to the EFI/COIL fuse are providing 12V even after key is turned off. So I disconnected the footbox blowers by unplugging them, and the reverse lockout module by unplugging the connector at the transmission solenoid. This should leave only the Maradyne unit connected to this EFI/COIL circuit.
  
  And after turning key OFF, still no shutdown.
  When I pull the EFI/COIL fuse, engine shuts off.

So I'm about 95% positive the Maradyne unit is causing my issues, whether faulty unit or because I wired it up wrong. I'm about to the point where I bypass the Maradyne unit completely, and just hook up the Coyote ECU orange fan wire directly to the fan to see if it kicks on. This is the only way I know how to test if the fan is working. I don't have a 12V external power supply with enough power to bend test the fan by itself. My only question/concern is if that orange fan wire on the Coyote harness has a fuse in the PDB? If so I can try it...if not, I don't want to burn anything up accidentally. Advice here welcome!!

[dbo_texas]

After a giant margarita and some thought, I realized I was mixing up the gauge reading which goes to the temp sensor in the engine block with the separate Maradyne sensor I installed inline with the radiator return hose. So it makes sense the gauge continues to read properly. I think my issue with the radiator fan not kicking on is because I have no grounds for my Maradyne 1-wire sensor. I don’t know if this is related to the engine not shutting down…I still think that has to do with how I wired the Maradyne unit to my EFI/COIL wire.

Can I replace that sensor with a 2-wire sensor and just run one of the wires to chassis ground? The alternative is to drain my radiator and replace the 38mm plastic adapter with a metal one so that I can ground the 1-wire sensor via the npt threads. The metal adapters have a screw for attaching a dedicated ground wire.

If I have to go that route, what’s the best way to drain the radiator?

[dbo_texas]

I needed a break from dealing with the radiator fan issue (still unresolved - see above) so today I decided to tackle the roll bars. I had posted about my troubles with the fit of the roll bars in post #241.. I went out and bought a new grinding stone and mounted it to the pneumatic tool and compressor. With this, I was able to reem out the bore of the rear leg so that it fits nicely over the hoop stud. I also used the same pneumatic tool with a sanding drum and the higher RPMs (vs. the drill I tried previously) seems to have done the trick. I did run the sander over the chrome tip of the hoop stud to grind down a little bit of material thickness. It didn't fully remove the chrome but it did knock down some of the high spots, especially on the edge of the pipe. It didn't take long. Here's the main tools I used - multiple drill bits for stepping up the hole size. Talk about a PITA...that is some hard steel on these roll bars. I'm glad they are hardened in the event of a roll but damn that was tough drilling 8 holes on these things. Feels like my wrist is going to be sore for a while.


I followed the FFR instructions, drilling the two hoop legs first, then lifted up the rear leg so it was flush with the hoop stud and securing the rear leg with vice grips (pic below). Then I drilled the lower rear leg holes, then the uppers.


Here's how I angled all the bolts. I debated how to the the rear upper bolts where they connect to the hoop. I've seen some tap holes there and use button head screws. I kind of like the Frankenstein bolt look so decided to keep it, although I do plan to replace the grade 8 nut with an acorn cap nut since it will look much nicer.


And a couple of finished pics:

[edwardb]

Regarding your issues with the Maradyne fan controller. Tried to follow you posts to see if there was anything I could add. I wired one into my 20th Anniversary Roadster with a Gen 2 Coyote and it worked OK once I grounded it properly. Got the idea from this thread and I made an entry explaining my installation. This may be the same thread you linked to: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ny-engine)-115. These are the points that occur to me:

1. I don't understand the wiring you have for the indicator light. The way it's wired it will light when the Coyote PCM signals the cooling fan. But if the Maradyne unit isn't sensing the appropriate temp, it won't close the fan ground so the fan won't be running. Which is more important? That the Coyote has signaled for the fan to run (which it may not be...) or that the fan is actually running? That seems like the only reason to have the indicator light IMO. So I would wire it differently.

2. Related to that, when I compare your wiring to how I wired mine, that added light is one of the main differences. Backfeeding is insidious and often nearly impossible to trace. Could that added light wired in that manner cause an issue? Easy to enough to check by disconnecting it. Regardless of whether it's a problem, I'd suggest the positive side off the orange/yellow +12V ignition switched source, and the ground side to the negative side of the fan or the white 14 gauge wire (same difference) so that when the fan is grounded and running the indicator is lit.

3. Also related, I don't understand this statement. "Just to be sure, I checked that when the dash light kicks on (@ around 75°C), the actual radiator fan is kicking on. To my surprise, IT IS NOT. This means the Coyote is sending power to the fan (my dash light is connected to that Coyote fan wire), but the Maradyne unit isn't grounding the circuit and turning on the fan. The red light on the Mardyne unit is lit..I'm not sure what that means. It doesn't come with much documentation so I may need to Google that. I did try turning the potentiometer dial on the Maradyne unit...all the way counter clockwise, then all the way clockwise, and the fan never kicks on. So I'm thinking either the fan is bad, or the Maradyne unit isn't working as it should. Can anyone tell me what the expected LED behavior is on the Maradyne controller?" My response: This is how it's supposed to work. The Coyote PCM may call for the fan and power the fan wire. But if the Maradyne unit doesn't think it's time yet, the fan won't run. With the Maradyne controller, the fan only runs when the Coyote PCM powers the wire and the Maradyne unit closes the ground. That's the whole point of installing the controller in the first place. I'm pretty sure you understand that, but the quoted statement makes me unsure.

4. I don't know this for a fact (you're right, marginal instructions) but I'm pretty sure the Maradyne probe needs a ground path in addition to the blue wire from the controller. I used a metal adapter in the lower hose and grounded it. I'd suggest figuring out a way to ground your probe if it still doesn't work right. I'd avoid replacing the probe with something that's 2-wire. It's possible (likely...) another part may not be compatible with the Maradyne controller.

5. Very hard to understand how your choke wire with the Coyote relay trigger wire is holding voltage after the ignition key is turned off. Agree something is likely backfeeding. Have you actually measured the voltage on that choke wire when it's not shutting off as it should?

6. You can easily test your fan with jumpers directly from the battery.

Those are pretty random, but what I gleaned after reviewing.

[dbo_texas]

Regarding your issues with the Maradyne fan controller....

Thanks Paul for such a detailed response here - really appreciate the input as I work through this. You have a couple of suggestions I haven't tried yet and so these will be helpful for me to root cause this. Couple of notes regarding your feedback:

1. Dash LED indicator wiring: That makes two of us...it was a bonehead move on my part....I wired that LED before I really understood how the Maradyne unit worked (actually before I decided to use it). You are correct...the dash LED lights up only when the Coyote ECU sends the "FAN ON" signal (i.e. supplies 12V directly to the fan via the orange wire). I've got the negative side of the dash LED tied to chassis ground from one of the spare dash harness leads. In hindsight, I should have supplied constant IGN power to the LED (from any source) and tied the NEGATIVE side to the white ground wire coming from the Maradyne unit (which as you mention is the same as the fan ground wire). As you indicate, this would kick on the light when the actual fan kicks on, not when the Coyote ECU calls for it.

2. LED wiring - agree 100% (see above)

3. This was just a brain lapse on my part...for some reason my brain was saying "well if the LED is coming on @ 75° C, then that means the Maradyne unit is reading the temperature correct and trying to turn the fan on" --> when in fact it was the Coyote ECU turning on the LED (not the the Maradyne unit). So I was just confusing myself on the two temp sensors...

4. Maradyne 1-wire temp sensor: I think you are correct here. I don't see any fix for this other than to drain the radiator and swap out my plastic 38mm adapter for the metal version which has a tapped holes with a dedicated ground wire attachment (sensor gets grounded to the adapter via the threads). It's only a $10 part on Amazon. I plan to go ahead and swap it out....need to figure out how to drain the radiator so I will need to research this. I'm sure it isn't too bad.

5. choke wire - I haven't measured the voltage directly on the choke wire. I can try to measure this at the fuse but getting to the wire will be difficult. I'll have to unmount my dash (made difficult by my grab handle brackets). I've eliminated the other items on that circuits such as the footbox blowers and reverse lockout - with those disconnected the EFI/COIL still has voltage and the only thing hooked up to it is the Maradyne unit so I think it is the source of the back-feeding. I think I can disconnect the EFI/COIL wire from those (I'm pretty sure I have a connector on it) - that should immediately kill the engine once the source of the backfeed is eliminated. I will try this next to 100% confirm if its coming from the Maradyne unit. The other thing I considered was adding diodes to the orange/yellow wires which would also prevent backfeeding. But I need to confirm my suspicion first, then fix the root issue (vs. the diode band aid).

6. Fan test --> thanks for this tip. I'll try this ASAP to confirm if I have a bad fan (most likely not, but will be good to eliminate it).

Looks like I have a plan with a couple of more trouble shooting steps. Thanks again for the input!

[dbo_texas]

Radiator fan confirmed working. Took Paul's advice and just hooked it straight up to the batter and it turns on. So check that one off the list. This weekend I'll drain the radiator and replace the temp sensor adapter to a metal version I can ground. Then I'll troubleshoot if the dash indicator LED has anything do do with this back feeding issue.

[dbo_texas]

As noted previously, the Mishimoto in-line adapter I purchased for mounting the Maradyne 1-wire temp sensor did not include a ground connection for the sensor. I bought a new 38mm adapter on Amazon, then drained the radiator. This was way easier than I thought ...simply place a bucket underneath the PS of the radiator, and twist open the petcock valve and let it drain. It did take about 30-45 minutes to completely drain the system:



After this, I removed the Mishimoto 38mm adapter from the radiator return line. Turns out that adapter from Mishimoto actually was aluminum (I thought it was plastic). When I tried to install the new adapter I bought on Amazon, I found that apparently 38mm does not equal 38mm. Despite both adapters being marketed at 38mm, the new one I bought on Amazon was a full 2mm smaller in diameter and didn't really fit the ID of the Dayco hose I was using as my return line. I was worried that hose clamps wouldn't be able to get a good seal on the new adapter, so instead I tapped a #6-32 hole into the existing Mishimoto adapter. I ground off the powder coat, and ran a 1/8 NPT tap through the temp sensor port to get down to bare metal on the threads. After re-installing the temp sensor, I verified the sensor was grounded through the port threads --> all good. I put a dab of liquid thread sealant right at the top couple of threads on the sensor, still allowing the bottom threads to engage the metal adapter.


Then just re-installed the adapter in-line, and tapped a hole in the suspension flange to act as my chassis ground connection point.


I'm hoping this allows the sensor to work properly. I re-filled the radiator, ran the engine a couple of times, and let it self-purge all the air out of the system. The fan still isn't kicking on, which I'm not surprised about. I still need to redo how the Maradyne unit is wired up to try to eliminate the back-feeding issue, and to also change how my dash indicator LED is wired so that it is triggered by the ground circuit on the fan (vs. the Coyote orange fan wire). I'll supply the fan indicator LED with a +12V signal from one of the existing wires behind the dash (shouldn't matter which one...it's low power). Hopefully this weekend I'll have some free time to mess with it and get it sorted.

[dbo_texas]

I have a very small/slow leak on my low pressure 10AN hose going from my oil cooler to the KRC PS reservoir. I'm using the genuine KRC power steering fluid (debated using this vs. the Honda purple PS fluid, but since KRC says to use their stuff that's what I did). It's not a massive leak, just a very slow drip over time. This is one of the hoses I built. The leak appears to be coming from the red aluminum fitting, not the black 10AN to 6AN adapter, or the junction with the reservoir, or the reservoir cap. My plan is to drain the power steering, remove that 10AN hose, and then rebuild it (using new hose, but re-use the same fittings....they are supposed to be reusable). Maybe the safe bet would be to just buy a new 45° fitting, but I plan to try re-using it first.

My question is: what's the best way to drain the system? Should I use a syringe to pull out as much fluid from the reservoir as I can before disconnecting hoses? I was planning to then disconnect the 10AN hose where it connects to the reservoir, and lower that end to the ground (or bucket) so that any fluid in the oil cooler could drain out before I disconnect the 10AN hose from the oil cooler outlet. I'm trying to avoid making a huge mess...I've already had to deal with PS fluid everywhere once, and that was enough. Took me almost 2 hrs to clean it up properly last time and I'm hoping to avoid it.

[Blitzboy54]

What you described is how I would do it. It's going to be a little messy no matter what but your proposed method would mitigate it. Also lay some rags around likely drip locations.

[dbo_texas]

After I did first start a couple weeks ago, I hooked up my OBDLink MX+ scanner to the OBD2 port and it came back with the following 2 permanent codes:
P0365 - Camshaft Position Sensor "B" Circuit Bank 1
P0369 - Camshaft Position Sensor "B" Circuit Intermittent Bank 1

This is a Gen2 crate motor from Forte's (circa late 2018). As these are permanent codes, I haven't been able to clear them. When I do clear codes, these stay, and the MIL light goes off for a bit but then comes back on after a while. Has anyone seen these specific codes? Are they normal and just get programmed out with a professional tune? Anything I should specifically be worried about?

The engine sounds fine - no knocking sounds or sputtering. It's loud right after cranking, but then the RPMs come down after idling for about 15-30 seconds and it's more tame unless I give it some gas. Then it gets rowdy real quick.

[cv2065]

Maybe this will help diagnose:

https://www.engine-codes.com/p0365.html
https://www.engine-codes.com/p0369.html

[Mick40]

Yes, I put a drill on the PS pump while my friend turned the wheel.

[dbo_texas]

Maybe this will help diagnose:

https://www.engine-codes.com/p0365.html
https://www.engine-codes.com/p0369.html

yeah I had googled the codes and see lots of options for what it could be. On some of the Mustang forums they suggest driving it for a bit and the ECU can "relearn" the timing. If that doesn't work, the low-hanging fruit option would be to replace the sensor, although they are located on the back of the heads, and I'm not sure if there is physically enough space to remove them without lifting the engine which would be a MAJOR pain. I'm hoping these codes go away on their own or somebody has been through this before and can offer some advice.

[Blitzboy54]

yeah I had googled the codes and see lots of options for what it could be. On some of the Mustang forums they suggest driving it for a bit and the ECU can "relearn" the timing. If that doesn't work, the low-hanging fruit option would be to replace the sensor, although they are located on the back of the heads, and I'm not sure if there is physically enough space to remove them without lifting the engine which would be a MAJOR pain. I'm hoping these codes go away on their own or somebody has been through this before and can offer some advice.

You should have no problem replacing those sensors. They are pretty accessible. They are relatively cheap. I would purchase a B side set and re scan.

As a matter of fact I can check when I get home but I think I might have a brand new non OEM set you can have if you want to just swap out to see if the problem goes away.

[BUDFIVE]

FYI I had emailed FFR to see if they sell a replacement hose I could purchase, and included a pic of the end of the hose. They agreed it definitely looked like a manufacturing defect and immediately shipped me another hose no charge. Can't beat that customer service! Should get the new hoses & fluid in Thursday and hopefully I'll be to smiling again. Will report back.

DBO, glad you told FFR about the hose fail-they should be watching failure rates on safety critical components. I’m not surprised they shipped a new one. I had the high side hose fail at the 90 degree fitting-FFR took it seriously, checked their stock for similar defects, and sent a new hose to me. I showed my fail in post #43 in my build thread-it was a failure of the fitting itself.

[dbo_texas]

You should have no problem replacing those sensors. They are pretty accessible. They are relatively cheap. I would purchase a B side set and re scan.

As a matter of fact I can check when I get home but I think I might have a brand new non OEM set you can have if you want to just swap out to see if the problem goes away.

Yeah if you have a set and don't mind, send me a PM and I'll get you my address and cover any shipping.

Thanks!

[dbo_texas]

I ended up fixing the low pressure power steering hose going from the oil cooler mentioned a few posts up. It wasn't too bad. To drain, I first used a syringe to pull as much fluid out of the reservoir as I could. Then disconnected the hose from the reservoir and lowered it to the ground where most of the fluid drained out of the system.


After taking of the hose, I inspected the 45° fitting and found some metal aluminum shavings between the PTFE internal diameter. This is where the tube of the hose end inserts, and I'm pretty sure this little sliver of metal prevented a good seal and caused my leak. How do I know this? Because I do liquid cooling for work (enterprise IT equipment) and it's a common issue we see.


Anyhow, for better hose routing I replaced the 45° fitting with a straight 10AN fitting from Evil Energy ($11 on Amazon). This works better for my setup because it angles the hose towards the opening above the radiator a little bit better and puts less stress on the fittings. To make the new hose, I re-used the existing hose, cut the end off with a cutoff wheel on the grinder, smoothed out the PTFE tip with a small file, blew out the line with compressed air, and inserted the new hose end. Re-assembled the hose (using anti-seize on the threads so they don't gall over time), filled it up with fluid, and re-bled the power steering. So far, the hose is all good - no leaks.



I also played around with my wife's Cricut cutter and some brushed aluminum vinyl. Not sure how this will hold up on the tank as it does get pretty damn hot. Worst case I peel it up and clean up any residue from the vinyl, but I like how it looks for now:

[dbo_texas]

I'm really at a loss here. Today I spent quite a bit of time "fixing" the radiator fan wiring. Or at least attempting to fix it. Here are the changes I made, after l already grounded the temp sensor (post #301).

• To fix the dash indicator LED, I moved the ground wire of the dash indicator to the same pin as the fan ground wire, which is the large white 14g wire coming off the Maradyne controller. I used the clock 12V wire (BATTERY CIRCUIT) behind the dash to provide +12V. In theory, the Maradyne unit would close the ground connection and the LED would come on only when the fan comes on.
• Per some comments on THIS THREAD, I went ahead and disconnected the orange wire on the Maradyne controller. From what this other thread indicates, it isn't needed unless you want to run the fan for 1 minute after engine shut down. I'm OK with fan shut down as soon as engine shuts down, so I left the orange wire disconnected. Perhaps this was my mistake and it actually needs battery power?
• I still have the Coyote ORANGE fan wire going directly to the fan....so that's how it gets its +12V
• For my COIL/EFI wire, which I'm using for the 12V IGN (yellow wire on my Maradyne unit, gray wire on older models), I added a diode (60V, 5A) to only allow current to flow TO the Maradyne unit. My goal was to fix the issue where the engine wouldn't shut down once it got to temp...somehow I suspect the Maradyne unit was backfeeding current to my IGN circuit, preventing engine shutdown.

OK...so then I went to test all of this. Some observations:

1. The radiator fan never comes on. I let the temp get up to 100° (per the dash gauge) and still nothing, so I shut it down.
2. The red light on the Maradyne unit comes on as soon as I put the key in the "On" position, so the unit is getting power (from the 12V IGN COIL/EFI on the yellow wire) as it should
3. The yellow and green light on the Maradyne unit never came on...it stayed RED the entire run.
4. One strange unexpected behavior is that as soon as I put the key in the "On" position, the fan indicator LED on the dash is on. After the engine heats up, it went off....very strange. The behavior should be opposite....since the ground for the LED is tied to the white 14G wire (fan ground output of Maradyne controller), it should only be grounded once the Maradyne PWM closes the ground circuit to the fan. So this is super odd and I can't explain it. Any ideas?

I'm going to follow up on the other existing thread about this to try to figure it out. I guess the one difference is that I'm not hooking up the Orange wire on the Maradyne unit to the Coyote ECU orange wire (or directly to battery power as Maradyne instructions say), but from the other thread it seemed that wasn't necessary. The only other option I can think of is to wire it EXACTLY like Maradyne shows, and completely bypass the Coyote control. My preference is to not do this, as I'd prefer to utilize the Coyote ECU temp monitoring to provide the +12V to the fan.

[topherchrisb]

I'm really at a loss here. Today I spent quite a bit of time "fixing" the radiator fan wiring. Or at least attempting to fix it. Here are the changes I made, after l already grounded the temp sensor (post #301).

• To fix the dash indicator LED, I moved the ground wire of the dash indicator to the same pin as the fan ground wire, which is the large white 14g wire coming off the Maradyne controller. I used the clock 12V wire (BATTERY CIRCUIT) behind the dash to provide +12V. In theory, the Maradyne unit would close the ground connection and the LED would come on only when the fan comes on.
• Per some comments on THIS THREAD, I went ahead and disconnected the orange wire on the Maradyne controller. From what this other thread indicates, it isn't needed unless you want to run the fan for 1 minute after engine shut down. I'm OK with fan shut down as soon as engine shuts down, so I left the orange wire disconnected. Perhaps this was my mistake and it actually needs battery power?
• I still have the Coyote ORANGE fan wire going directly to the fan....so that's how it gets its +12V
• For my COIL/EFI wire, which I'm using for the 12V IGN (yellow wire on my Maradyne unit, gray wire on older models), I added a diode (60V, 5A) to only allow current to flow TO the Maradyne unit. My goal was to fix the issue where the engine wouldn't shut down once it got to temp...somehow I suspect the Maradyne unit was backfeeding current to my IGN circuit, preventing engine shutdown.

OK...so then I went to test all of this. Some observations:

1. The radiator fan never comes on. I let the temp get up to 100° (per the dash gauge) and still nothing, so I shut it down.
2. The red light on the Maradyne unit comes on as soon as I put the key in the "On" position, so the unit is getting power (from the 12V IGN COIL/EFI on the yellow wire) as it should
3. The yellow and green light on the Maradyne unit never came on...it stayed RED the entire run.
4. One strange unexpected behavior is that as soon as I put the key in the "On" position, the fan indicator LED on the dash is on. After the engine heats up, it went off....very strange. The behavior should be opposite....since the ground for the LED is tied to the white 14G wire (fan ground output of Maradyne controller), it should only be grounded once the Maradyne PWM closes the ground circuit to the fan. So this is super odd and I can't explain it. Any ideas?

I'm going to follow up on the other existing thread about this to try to figure it out. I guess the one difference is that I'm not hooking up the Orange wire on the Maradyne unit to the Coyote ECU orange wire (or directly to battery power as Maradyne instructions say), but from the other thread it seemed that wasn't necessary. The only other option I can think of is to wire it EXACTLY like Maradyne shows, and completely bypass the Coyote control. My preference is to not do this, as I'd prefer to utilize the Coyote ECU temp monitoring to provide the +12V to the fan.

I'm going to assume the Maradyne unit works similar to the auto cool guy unit I have where it modulates the ground side of the fan circuit at quicker paces as it sense warmer temperatures. I believe the problem is you're using the coyote ecu to provide the power to the fan. The ECU will only trigger 12v on that wire when it's calculated coolant temp is at a certain temperature threshold. That threshold (190-200ish?) will be much warmer than what you intend with the fan controller. On my auto cool guy unit I have the fan connected directly to the battery on a fused line with a constant 12v source. The unit also has a fail safe input that receives 12v to switch the ground to full close. I wired my ECU wire into that just in case it ever thinks the fan should be on. The controller does a great job preventing it from getting to that point and it hasn't ever happened, but I haven't been out on a 100 degree day yet.

[Blitzboy54]

Do you have the instructions? I think I know what the problem might be but need to see the install stuff to confirm.

[dbo_texas]

Do you have the instructions? I think I know what the problem might be but need to see the install stuff to confirm.

Yeah here is the Maradyne instructions along with how I have it wired currently (updated since my post #293):

[dbo_texas]

I'm going to assume the Maradyne unit works similar to the auto cool guy unit I have where it modulates the ground side of the fan circuit at quicker paces as it sense warmer temperatures. I believe the problem is you're using the coyote ecu to provide the power to the fan. The ECU will only trigger 12v on that wire when it's calculated coolant temp is at a certain temperature threshold. That threshold (190-200ish?) will be much warmer than what you intend with the fan controller. On my auto cool guy unit I have the fan connected directly to the battery on a fused line with a constant 12v source. The unit also has a fail safe input that receives 12v to switch the ground to full close. I wired my ECU wire into that just in case it ever thinks the fan should be on. The controller does a great job preventing it from getting to that point and it hasn't ever happened, but I haven't been out on a 100 degree day yet.

For those not using the Maradyne controller, I guess what does your gauge temp read when the fan comes on (controlled purely by the ECU)? I know the ECU reads the CHT to control when to turn on the fan (i.e. via the Coyote orange wire). Just curious when it's supposed to kick on. I let the car run idle for several minutes and the gauge got up past 100 degrees so I thought for sure it should have kicked on by then.

[Blitzboy54]

I'm going to assume the Maradyne unit works similar to the auto cool guy unit I have where it modulates the ground side of the fan circuit at quicker paces as it sense warmer temperatures. I believe the problem is you're using the coyote ecu to provide the power to the fan. The ECU will only trigger 12v on that wire when it's calculated coolant temp is at a certain temperature threshold. That threshold (190-200ish?) will be much warmer than what you intend with the fan controller. On my auto cool guy unit I have the fan connected directly to the battery on a fused line with a constant 12v source. The unit also has a fail safe input that receives 12v to switch the ground to full close. I wired my ECU wire into that just in case it ever thinks the fan should be on. The controller does a great job preventing it from getting to that point and it hasn't ever happened, but I haven't been out on a 100 degree day yet.

I agree with this. The controller needs a constant 12v. I would remove the Coyote ECU from the circuit entirely. Just tuck it away somewhere for now.

[dbo_texas]

I agree with this. The controller needs a constant 12v. I would remove the Coyote ECU from the circuit entirely. Just tuck it away somewhere for now.

So tonight I hooked up the orange Maradyne wire directly to battery power, and the fan still didn't kick on. I unplugged the fan connector while it was running and probed the Coyote ECU orange wire - its reading 15.1 V so it's sending power to the fan (this was at gauge coolant temp of around 90°C), the Maradyne controller just won't close the circuit. So I think either the temp sensor is bad (and the Mardyne unit never knows to close the circuit), or the controller is just broken. I'm going to reach out to Maradyne to see if there is any way to test either theory.

[topherchrisb]

So tonight I hooked up the orange Maradyne wire directly to battery power, and the fan still didn't kick on. I unplugged the fan connector while it was running and probed the Coyote ECU orange wire - its reading 15.1 V so it's sending power to the fan (this was at gauge coolant temp of around 90°C), the Maradyne controller just won't close the circuit. So I think either the temp sensor is bad (and the Mardyne unit never knows to close the circuit), or the controller is just broken. I'm going to reach out to Maradyne to see if there is any way to test either theory.

You should be able to test both of those situations as well I think. Most temp sensors change resistance as they get warm. Before I put my controller in I hooked up the voltmeter to test resistance and held a lighter slightly away from it. I could then see the measurement sweep as the sensor gets warmer/colder. I think you can also test continuity between ground and your maradyne fan ground wire as the engine warms up. At some point there should be a quick enough modulation or enough contact each pulse that your meter will see the connection solid depending on how sensitive it is.

Oh I forgot too... on mine there is a potentiometer that I can turn that changes how low of a temperature mine will start to come on at. If you have some configuration in your type of unit maybe that's something to look at too? Make sure it's not cranked all the way or something that might cause the signal to start at a much higher temp.

[dbo_texas]

You should be able to test both of those situations as well I think. Most temp sensors change resistance as they get warm. Before I put my controller in I hooked up the voltmeter to test resistance and held a lighter slightly away from it. I could then see the measurement sweep as the sensor gets warmer/colder. I think you can also test continuity between ground and your maradyne fan ground wire as the engine warms up. At some point there should be a quick enough modulation or enough contact each pulse that your meter will see the connection solid depending on how sensitive it is.

Oh I forgot too... on mine there is a potentiometer that I can turn that changes how low of a temperature mine will start to come on at. If you have some configuration in your type of unit maybe that's something to look at too? Make sure it's not cranked all the way or something that might cause the signal to start at a much higher temp.

Tonight I ran a test and I'm about 95% sure the controller is bad. To test this, I bypassed the temp sensor completely by connecting the controller blue wire (which goes to the sensor) directly to chassis ground. I then brought it up to temp, and confirmed the Coyote ECU fan wire is sending power to the fan (confirmed). But the fan never kicked on. I then disconnected the fan connector and probed the ground wire which comes from the controller (going to fan), and it never achieved continuity with ground (i.e. the controller was never closing the circuit). So I'm pretty sure I have a bad controller. Trying to get Maradyne to swap it out, but I bought it long enough ago that I don't know they' warranty it. If they won't, I'm going to just call it a $200 loss and let the Coyote run the fan 100%. If the noise annoys me, I can always add a different controller in the future. I think others on here have posted some better options than the Maradyne unit which offer more controls.