No worries at all Andy, we are all here to help and learn from each other. I'm always learning from everyone on here.
I used to do a ton of car shows with our toys but I only do a few now due to those one or two people who do noting but try to be know it alls.....just takes the fun away.
Yeah, I've alway loved the 70 Challenger.....I bought a new Sublilme Green 2015 Challenger Scat pack in 2015 and after that I knew I needed a 70 since the new style Challengers were designed after the 70. Couldn't find one in decent complete shape without spending big $$$, and then I ran into a woman who husband died and was in the middle of restoring this one. All the metal work was done and in primer stage, just needed paint, top, trim, interior, and power train. Took a solid year going through it and fixing it up.
I get quite a few looks / folks physically stopping on the street to look when I have them both parked in our driveway at home. Here's a shot of them at our storage garage.
My daughters boyfriend has a 2019 Challenger Super Bee. The car is relatively quick beings it weighs in excess of 4000 lbs. and blast to drive. I can't decide which color I like best on yours. Is that Plum Crazy on the 70?
33 Hot Rod (Gen 1) Stage 1 delivered on 4/27/2017, Stage 2 delivered on 9/21/2018
LS3 495hp/480 lb. ft., 4L70E, Electric PS, Classic Auto Air, Lokar electronic sport shifter, 13 inch Wilwood front and 11.68 Cobra rear brakes, Ford 8.8 w 3.73 w 4 link, Billet Specialty Legend Series MAG wheels and Mickey Thompson
Sportsman S/R 26x8x18 front and 29x18x20 rear tires.
My daughters boyfriend has a 2019 Challenger Super Bee. The car is relatively quick beings it weighs in excess of 4000 lbs. and blast to drive. I can't decide which color I like best on yours. Is that Plum Crazy on the 70?
Hood, trunk lid, and passenger door are done with final sanding. I should be able to finish up the drivers door tonight, then all that is left is the body...listen to me..."all that is left", I make that sound trivial like it's a 5 minute deal........ NOT!!
Actually, the new Q4 Platinum Fuji Spray turbine HVLP system lays the primer down fairly smooth so that has helped a lot with final sanding and from what I can see the body turned out the smoothest so I'm "hoping" final sanding that will be fairly quick (few hours).
The biggest issue I ran into was I had the volume on the gun up too high when I did the top of the hood (this was my first panel I sprayed, should have started on the bottom of the hood but my ego convinced me that a spray gun is a spray gun so I should be fine....nope) I left a huge booger run / material sag right down the middle of the hood so that took a bit to smooth flat but it worked out fine, there was plenty of HB primer to work with.
Even if I don't get the body done before the weekend, I'm targeting spraying color / clear on the insides of the doors, hood, trunk lid, edges of the front fenders, 1/2 of the engines side cover that will be covered by the front fenders plus the edges, and the belly pan. It may work out better that way, I'm going to spread out a bit in the garage so having the body up on the lift may help keep it out of the way.
Drivers side door done with final sanding...ready for paint / clear.
I'm going to spend the next evening or so prepping the garage to paint / clear everything I noted above this weekend. Then I'll restart work on final sanding on the body, once finished with that I'll paint / clear the jams on the body, then reassemble everything back on the car and do the final paint/clear.
I have a question about spraying the paint/clear on two sided panels like you're talking about. When you do that do you mask the side that is not getting the paint at that time? If so, any tips to doing this? If not, how do you deal with the overspray that gets on the other surface?
I have a question about spraying the paint/clear on two sided panels like you're talking about. When you do that do you mask the side that is not getting the paint at that time? If so, any tips to doing this? If not, how do you deal with the overspray that gets on the other surface?
Hi Michael
Sorry in advance for the long response.
Masking is tricky since it's very easy to leave a viewable tape line which is difficult to get rid of without causing a lot of extra effort for yourself. On the doors, hood & trunk lid, I typically try to spray at an angle that leaves minimal over spray on the other side of the panel that I'm not intending to paint at that point, but ultimately a person if fooling themselves if they think there won't be any overspray. There will be.
When I'm ready to paint the other side (once reassembled on the body) I will scuff / lightly sand any overspray on the panel side to be painted so the paint has something to grab onto on the surface. Since your sparying the same color from the same mix batch it will blend nicely.
Then, when I reassemble everything before final paint, I will mask some things to avoid overspray in some areas and it should be fairly easy regarding not seeing tape lines. The areas I plan to mask:
* On the doors, the 33 door panel design actually makes masking the inside of the freshly painted door pretty easy without causing obvious tape lines. I plan to mask right under the upper belt line on the inside of the door down to the bottom of the door to avoid over spray on the finished inside portion.
* On the dash area, I will mask right under the upper dash lip and down which matches up with the belt line on the inside. With the Gen2 body having a separate removable dash panel, even if there is a slight tape line it will be covered by the dash panel
* On the lower portion of the engine side covers/belly pan, since I'm running full fenders, I will mask the lower portion that is covered by the front fender. I will run my tape right under the front fender since the tip of the fender meets up with the grill so there should not be any tape lines "if" I do it correctly.
* Finally on the cowl & jams, I want to mask some, but I'm not exactly sure where yet, I'll know where once I get everything reassembled and I can visualize the areas most susceptible areas to overspray.
Everything else should see minimal over spray since the doors, trunk & hood will be shut but I can easy buff any areas to clean up any overspray I may have missed.
Worrying about overspray is actually one of the arguments against doing it the way I do...Body Shops and other folks don't like to have to plan out extra time how to protect the finished side of the panels & jams from overspray while avoiding tape lines. To me, I'd rather take an extra couple hours masking everything off carefully once reassembled / properly gapped to avoid as much overspray as I can, verses spraying a panel (like a door) on both sides off the car, then risk scratching/chipping the finished paint reassembling / gapping everything.
I've done it both ways, and I've found I will spend almost equal amounts of time either masking for over spray before painting an assembled vehicle, verse masking / needing to be overly cautious making sure I don't scratch / chip something putting it back on the car and adjusting gaps after spraying both sides off the car. If you scratch or chip the finished panel or body during reassembly / gapping then you're repainting which adds more time (and money) into the equation. The funny thing about it is, if you need to repaint due to a scratch or chip, most body shops and DYIers will leave the damaged panel on the car and mask everything around it and repaint, so what have you really saved?
Anyway, just my thinking, definitely not for everyone.
Didn't want to piss off any of the neighbors with paint smell on this long Easter weekend, so I got up at 3AM to paint / clear my panels...overall, I'm very pleased...couple nibs I need to buff out but that is what you get when you paint in the garage. I may also do a technique called "flow coat" where you sand the the whole body once the clear cures with 600 grit, then reclear the car and then you don't need to buff, gives it a mirror finish.
I can say I indeed L-O-V-E the paint color (68 Ford Lime Gold), pics don't it do justice...not for everyone I know, but it works for me. Can't wait to see it in the sunlight....Some pics.
Front Fenders (I just painted / cleared the edges that will be up against the engine side cover and running board; kind of boring pics) 20210402_070018.jpg20210402_070023.jpg
Painted the insides of the engine side covers and the belly pan yesterday, as well as started the final sand on the body. Hoping to spray the jams / cowl next weekend.
33 Hot Rod with Deluxe Grill (32) Hood & sides, Bike Fenders, Hard Top, AC, Power Windows, Electric Power Steering, 306 Ford Small Block - roller cam, aluminum heads, Eldenbrock intake & carb, T5, Moser 3 link, Arrived 5/6/20.
Another big milestone met, the final sanding of body primer is done, now I just need to clean everything up, mask things up again, clean / tack cloth, paint & clear the jams and cowl this weekend. then it's on to reassembly for final paint / clear.
First time the plastic has been off in the front of the 33 in over a month. I'll need to mask a little once I get all the panels on but I missed this view......I like the green against the aluminum (except for the blue piece of tape I missed).
When you are spraying what do you use for respirator?
What do you use for ventilation in garage?
How far do you go with cleaning up the garage before spraying?
Thanks,
Andy
33 Hot Rod with Deluxe Grill (32) Hood & sides, Bike Fenders, Hard Top, AC, Power Windows, Electric Power Steering, 306 Ford Small Block - roller cam, aluminum heads, Eldenbrock intake & carb, T5, Moser 3 link, Arrived 5/6/20.
When you are spraying what do you use for respirator?
What do you use for ventilation in garage?
How far do you go with cleaning up the garage before spraying?
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy
- Respirator: I use a half face 3M respirator with 3M performance cartridges for organic vapors....change them out after each spray session
- Ventillatin: In the garage I have a 20" box fan mounted on our side garage window blowing fresh air in to the garage, and then on our garage access door it has a slide down window / screen so I have a 20" box fan with two filters covering it exhausting air out (the filters catch the over spray), and then near to where I am spraying I arrange three additional box fans blowing air towards the exhaust fan.
- Cleaning / Prep: I go pretty far with cleaning the car and garage...... on the car, I recover any existing plastic to lock in any dust left, I then blow down the car, wash the panels with soap and water, then use wax/grease remover, then I use a tack cloth right before I spray. For the garage, I wipe down the walls, lift, & objects close to the spray area, I spray down the garage floor, when it's dry, then I cover it with underlayment paper to seal in an remaining dust. I then cover the walls, cabinets, tool chests, etc with plastic to protect them from any overspray, but also to lock in any dust I missed. It's normally about 8-10 hours of prep before I spray.
Lots of effort to be as clean as I can but in the end, it's a garage, and you will get some minor paint nibs which are fairly easy to deal with during the final cut & buff.
Billet Aluminum step plates for the running boards came today....should look pretty good...placement in the pic is just rough until I get the interior in to know where I want the step plate.
I ordered them cause I think the painted running boards alone could get a little slippery and marked up without anything protecting them.
- Respirator: I use a half face 3M respirator with 3M performance cartridges for organic vapors....change them out after each spray session
- Ventillatin: In the garage I have a 20" box fan mounted on our side garage window blowing fresh air in to the garage, and then on our garage access door it has a slide down window / screen so I have a 20" box fan with two filters covering it exhausting air out (the filters catch the over spray), and then near to where I am spraying I arrange three additional box fans blowing air towards the exhaust fan.
- Cleaning / Prep: I go pretty far with cleaning the car and garage...... on the car, I recover any existing plastic to lock in any dust left, I then blow down the car, wash the panels with soap and water, then use wax/grease remover, then I use a tack cloth right before I spray. For the garage, I wipe down the walls, lift, & objects close to the spray area, I spray down the garage floor, when it's dry, then I cover it with underlayment paper to seal in an remaining dust. I then cover the walls, cabinets, tool chests, etc with plastic to protect them from any overspray, but also to lock in any dust I missed. It's normally about 8-10 hours of prep before I spray.
Lots of effort to be as clean as I can but in the end, it's a garage, and you will get some minor paint nibs which are fairly easy to deal with during the final cut & buff.
Jim
Thanks for the great description!
Thanks,
Andy
33 Hot Rod with Deluxe Grill (32) Hood & sides, Bike Fenders, Hard Top, AC, Power Windows, Electric Power Steering, 306 Ford Small Block - roller cam, aluminum heads, Eldenbrock intake & carb, T5, Moser 3 link, Arrived 5/6/20.
Spent a little time these past couple nights re-assembling....just have the doors & front fenders left and then I can move to prepping (sanding / scuffing) the areas with over-spray on them before final cleaning / paint /clear.
All back together (including doors). Actually I didn't want to sound overly confident in a response back to Steve (FF33rod) about the doors in case I ran into issues and jinxed myself but I figured they'd line right up which they did. I was fairly confident they would since I took care of any twisting or alignment issues I had in Posts #182-185.
The only thing I need to do on the driver's door is move my striker in about 1/8" since the door is out just a hair but over all, doors line up nicely.
Now that it's all back together now I can start on prep for final paint / clear.
When my day comes I don't know if I'll ever be able to muster up the courage to paint it myself. I think I could get the bodywork to within 80-90% of being done myself but after that I think I'll be leaving it to the pros.
Great to hear that all the panels lined back up when you reassembled them, nice workmanship!
I've got another painting question, sorry.
I live in Michigan where the temperature can be 75F one day and 50F the next.
With you being in South Dakota you probably deal with the same situation, have you had any trouble with the maintaining the temperature in the garage when spraying?
How wide of temperature window do paint reducers usually have?
Do you wait to paint until there will be a warm/stable spell of weather?
Thanks,
Andy
Last edited by e36m3; 04-14-2021 at 11:11 AM.
33 Hot Rod with Deluxe Grill (32) Hood & sides, Bike Fenders, Hard Top, AC, Power Windows, Electric Power Steering, 306 Ford Small Block - roller cam, aluminum heads, Eldenbrock intake & carb, T5, Moser 3 link, Arrived 5/6/20.
Great to hear that all the panels lined back up when you reassembled them, nice workmanship!
I've got another painting question, sorry.
I live in Michigan where the temperature can be 75F one day and 50F the next.
With you being in South Dakota you probably deal with the same situation, have you had any trouble with the maintaining the temperature in the garage when spraying?
How wide of temperature window do paint reducers usually have?
Do you wait to paint until there will be a warm/stable spell of weather?
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy
Yeah, SoDak weather is pretty flighty (wait 5 minutes and it changes).
I don't have issue maintaining temp in my garage since it's heated and well insulated, so 24 hours before i paint I heat it up from my normal 68F to 75F and then when I paint I shut off the garage furnace (paint & furnace are a bad combination).
Any reducers, or activators I use are the 65F - 80F range. Some reducer in that temp range is called "medium" but paint suppliers are different in terminology so just go by the temp range, those are pretty standard.
The only time I really don't paint due to advice from an old body guy I know (he's retired now but a hoot to talk with) is during a heavy rain, or right after a heavy rain or high humidity. A lot of other much younger guys I know tell me it's an old wives tale about the rain but this old guy I know is old school and has seen a lot and painted a lot so I tend to rely on his experience over folks who have only been doing it for a handful of years.
When my day comes I don't know if I'll ever be able to muster up the courage to paint it myself. I think I could get the bodywork to within 80-90% of being done myself but after that I think I'll be leaving it to the pros.
It's not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that.
When my day comes I don't know if I'll ever be able to muster up the courage to paint it myself. I think I could get the bodywork to within 80-90% of being done myself but after that I think I'll be leaving it to the pros.
I know the concept of "bodywork" is all relative based on each individual project & what each builder has in mind, but here is just a bit of food for thought for those still trying to decide how far they will go with that portion of the process themselves...
If you are leaning toward having another shop paint your car, have those discussions with the shop early on. What I found in my research (& this maybe different for all), is that MOST (reputable) shops will not touch your vehicle if they are not doing the entire process with regards to Painting the car. The reason I mention this in correlation with Bodywork is...for many shops, glass work, filler, spot primer, sealer, cut-in are ALL part of the Finishing process. Point being, it becomes difficult for them to warranty a product they don't have complete control over.
Just something to keep in mind, so you aren't performing work to find it will only need to be redone, just for the sake of the selected shop doing it.
33' Hot Rod Coupe/Roadster (GEN 1), Fendered, Ford 302, 350hp, EFI, AOD, 4-Link, Double Adjustable Koni Coilovers, Split Rear Exhaust, Electric Power Steering, AC/Heat/Defrost, Moser 8.8"-3.55, Willwood Front/Rear Brakes, 18" x 8" Fronts/20" x 10" Rears, Ordered: 1.26.17, Arrived: 3.29.17, First Start: 7.2.18, Go Cart: 11.4.18 Paint/Body: 2.23.19, Back Home: 11.24.19, Completed: NEVER!; View More Pics @ https://starmobileone.com/
I know the concept of "bodywork" is all relative based on each individual project & what each builder has in mind, but here is just a bit of food for thought for those still trying to decide how far they will go with that portion of the process themselves...
If you are leaning toward having another shop paint your car, have those discussions with the shop early on. What I found in my research (& this maybe different for all), is that MOST (reputable) shops will not touch your vehicle if they are not doing the entire process with regards to Painting the car. The reason I mention this in correlation with Bodywork is...for many shops, glass work, filler, spot primer, sealer, cut-in are ALL part of the Finishing process. Point being, it becomes difficult for them to warranty a product they don't have complete control over.
Just something to keep in mind, so you aren't performing work to find it will only need to be redone, just for the sake of the selected shop doing it.
That is 100% correct in SoDak too ..... any reputable body shops only want to deal with a clean slate so they know the materials going into the workmanship so they can standby their warranty.
With that said however, I do know that some reputable shops here "will" take the job of finishing started body work and all the paint work but they will not start on any work on the vehicle until you sign off on an "as-is agreement" meaning they will finish the job you started but if the final paint job has flaw / waves due to initial body work done, or it starts peeling day 1, day 30, 2 yrs down the road, etc. they will not cover it.
On the 55 F100 I'm working on, the frame was twisted really bad but repairable, I straightened it some and took it to a very reputible body shop local to me and they finished the straightening job but I needed to sign off on the as-is agreement before they started. They said it applied to the situation I noted above too with hobbyist who start the body work but get in over their heads or think they are doing the shop a favor by starting the body work.
Good advice Jim and Jamie. My collaboration experience is limited to a 69 Mustang that I patched and filled in my later teen years and then had painted by a local guy for $300-$400 (so long ago I can't remember the exact $$ amount LOL).
I guess the game has changed a lot since then, particularly when we're talking about higher end work.
Good advice Jim and Jamie. My collaboration experience is limited to a 69 Mustang that I patched and filled in my later teen years and then had painted by a local guy for $300-$400 (so long ago I can't remember the exact $$ amount LOL).
I guess the game has changed a lot since then, particularly when we're talking about higher end work.
It's Changed a lot....$300-$400 today may get you a gallon of HB primer and reducer. HB Primer, Paint, clear, all the reducer & activators alone on the 33 for me is right at $2.5K...... then add the body fillers, labor, sanding material, etc.
Even Maaco (the uber-economical paint shop will charge about $2.5K - $4K for a paint job now a days.
Scuffed the whole car last night with 400 grit followed by 600 grit to smooth out any over-spray and cut the thicker areas of clear so the paint adheres to it.
Now it's time to clean everything thoroughly (car & garage) and start masking off for final paint / clear.
As much as I like body work & painting, I'm look forward to being done with all the dust in the garage as well as moving on to the interior & final exterior parts (handles, vents, lights, windshield, etc.).
Yeah, SoDak weather is pretty flighty (wait 5 minutes and it changes).
I don't have issue maintaining temp in my garage since it's heated and well insulated, so 24 hours before i paint I heat it up from my normal 68F to 75F and then when I paint I shut off the garage furnace (paint & furnace are a bad combination).
Any reducers, or activators I use are the 65F - 80F range. Some reducer in that temp range is called "medium" but paint suppliers are different in terminology so just go by the temp range, those are pretty standard.
The only time I really don't paint due to advice from an old body guy I know (he's retired now but a hoot to talk with) is during a heavy rain, or right after a heavy rain or high humidity. A lot of other much younger guys I know tell me it's an old wives tale about the rain but this old guy I know is old school and has seen a lot and painted a lot so I tend to rely on his experience over folks who have only been doing it for a handful of years.
Jim
Jim,
Thanks again for the great feedback!
In Zeeland, MI the town where I work, there is a auto body and paint supplier https://www.wyrick-co.com/ that has been in business since the 70s.
They are very helpful and willing to give out a lot of advice. They have helped me out a lot on using some 2K paints for little projects in past.
I plan on buying from them filler, primer, sealer, and paint so everything is compatiable.
Your feedback has given a lot more confidence that I can do the painting with my garage set up.
I still need to figure out what I'm going to do to cool the air down coming out of the compressor and get all the moisture out of it.
Late last summer I did some sand blasting with 60 gal 5hp single cylinder compressor with a filter and dessicant stage before the hose and a mini dissicant at the sand blaster and still had problems with moisture clogging up the blaster.
I think I'm going to something like you and Peter226 did with copper tubing.
Thanks,
Andy
Last edited by e36m3; 04-15-2021 at 11:57 AM.
33 Hot Rod with Deluxe Grill (32) Hood & sides, Bike Fenders, Hard Top, AC, Power Windows, Electric Power Steering, 306 Ford Small Block - roller cam, aluminum heads, Eldenbrock intake & carb, T5, Moser 3 link, Arrived 5/6/20.
That is a great color and the quality of the paint job looks amazing in the picture, have you been spraying your own cars long? Good job keep up the good work. Can't wait to see the finished and assembled car!!
In Zeeland, MI the town where I work, there is a auto body and paint supplier https://www.wyrick-co.com/ that has been in business since the 70s.
They are very helpful and willing to give out a lot of advice. They have helped me out a lot on using some 2K paints for little projects in past.
I plan on buying from them filler, primer, sealer, and paint so everything is compatiable.
Your feedback has given a lot more confidence that I can do the painting with my garage set up.
I still need to figure out what I'm going to do to cool the air down coming out of the compressor and get all the moisture out of it.
Late last summer I did some sand blasting with 60 gal 5hp single cylinder compressor with a filter and dessicant stage before the hose and a mini dissicant at the sand blaster and still had problems with moisture clogging up the blaster.
I think I'm going to something like you and Peter226 did with copper tubing.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy
Moisture in the line as well as risk of oil in the lines which leads to fish eyes and other defects in the paint is the reason I went to the FujiSpray airless turbine HVLP system. I am completely set up in both the garage and my shop to spray with air and I have sprayed with air in the past, I was just tired of dealing with moisture, excessive overspray, paint defects, etc as a result of air.
I looked into buying a dryer system for my compressor but it was as much, if not more than the Fuji spray system I just bought. For air tools / sand blasting, etc, I'm fine with a little moisture in the line.
Building a manifold like Peter226, and I did will help a ton, in fact the amount of water that comes out of the drain valves is amazing / almost scary, but to set the right expectations, weather (humidity) will play a huge factor with moisture in the line.
There are pretty decent filters you can get that screw into your paint gun (Your air line plugs into the filter) which do work really well for moisture / trapping occasional oil so perhaps between building yourself a manifold and adding filters on your guns, you may be able to solve the moisture issue.
We learn from each other so keep the questions coming, I'll answer anything I've had experience with.
That is a great color and the quality of the paint job looks amazing in the picture, have you been spraying your own cars long? Good job keep up the good work. Can't wait to see the finished and assembled car!!
Thanks Mike...yeah I really like the color too, as I said before, not for everyone but I wanted something unique.
I've been spraying vehicles tractors on and off for 20+ years.......but I am no expert, I'm always learning.
The finish you mention is the result of this new FujiSpray Turbine HVLP airless system I just bought, it atomizes the clear coat so finely that orange peel is kept to a minimum but I don't want to set the wrong expectations, there will be minor orange peel where if I want the ultra-mirror finish I will need to do a cut & buff.
If it turns out pretty decent, I may just drive it as is this season and then do a cut & buff in winter.
She's painted, but she has a lot of work ahead of her. I did a couple couple stupid things in this paint job which causes the finish to come out kind of rough.
1st - I grabbed the wrong paint reducer (grabbed the one from my 55 F100 for some reason) so it caused the paint to wrinkle as I shot the first panels, so I had to stop, let it dry and sand those spots out, now of course their are a few waves in the base where I sanded....no one to blame but me
2nd - I shot my 3rd coat of clear too soon before it was fully flashed off and it caused a lot of orange peel...all fixable, but .....sigh
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Originally Posted by 33fromSD
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