Help with first start

[RickP]

Unfortunately, I did not go the extra step to degree it. That is something I definitely am regretting right now. I was pretty sure I nailed the timing chain. I did a lot reading and watching before putting it on. The #1 piston was definitely all the way up and the dots lined up. I guess its possible that I was on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke...

You don't have to degree the cam. The reason you want to is to ensure the cam you have matches the cam card that came with the part. If you degree it, and it doesn't fall into spec with the card, you have the wrong cam. It's piece of mind knowing that piece of the puzzle is right.

if you were on the exhaust stroke when you set that chain on, your timing would be 180 degrees out. And yes, it's very possible that it is. Hence your symptoms. If your facing a tear down to ensure the timing chain is aligned properly, go the extra step to degree the cam while your at it. if you don't have a degree wheel, you can use mine. I'm about an hour from you near Pottstown.

[lahrs37]

You don't have to degree the cam. The reason you want to is to ensure the cam you have matches the cam card that came with the part. If you degree it, and it doesn't fall into spec with the card, you have the wrong cam. It's piece of mind knowing that piece of the puzzle is right.

if you were on the exhaust stroke when you set that chain on, your timing would be 180 degrees out. And yes, it's very possible that it is. Hence your symptoms. If your facing a tear down to ensure the timing chain is aligned properly, go the extra step to degree the cam while your at it. if you don't have a degree wheel, you can use mine. I'm about an hour from you near Pottstown.

That is very much appreciated. I am going to try and do the process at least one more time before tearing down. I went back to the main video I used as I was installing my timing chain and watched it again. I am damn near positive I did it right because I had my computer next to me and kept replaying it while I was installing it. It was the thing I was most freaked out about messing up. Here is the video. If that is right, it really should be in right and I am just being a dumbass with the other stuff.
https://youtu.be/NjalAvBQhVE

[GoDadGo]

I'm with RickP regarding your Cam timing.

If you aligned the dots, and I'd bet you did, you are likely dealing with the "Other Stuff" so good luck & be patient!

These Things Take Time!

[lahrs37]

I'm with RickP regarding your Cam timing.

If you aligned the dots, and I'd bet you did, you are likely dealing with the "Other Stuff" so good luck & be patient!

These Things Take Time!

Thanks Steve! That is a good reminder.

[GSides9]

The cam determines if it is right or 180 degrees out, in reference to the crank. You set that when the dots line up on the timing gears. 2 turns of the crank to 1 turn of the cam. Determine TDC with the compression in #1 spark plug hole. Look at the balancer and set the balancer to 10ish degrees on the timing indicator. Now look at the distributor. #1 wire should be marked on the top of cap. The rotor should be pointed at that spot. If it is not, and it can't turn enough to align them, out it comes. Allow for the turning action of the rotor as the distributor gear engages the cam. Be patient, you'll get it.

Glen

[2bking]

I think a lot of the suggestions miss the point that the engine runs but poorly due to either timing or fuel. I think the initial issue was the timing being 180* out and that was corrected. Obviously the cam installation is not a problem because it runs and runs smoothly. A timing light would make quick work of identifying a timing issue. A shot of ether would help identify a fuel issue.

[Gromit]

I agree with 2bking most likely no need to go back inside to look at cam timing. But verifying that the timing mark on the balancer is showing true TDC is important. I've seen miss matched / different year parts not match up to show the correct TDC. It's not that hard to make a piston stop and verify that the timing line is showing true top dead center... once that is confirmed then a timing light is all you need to verify timing on a running engine.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I think a lot of the suggestions miss the point that the engine runs but poorly due to either timing or fuel. I think the initial issue was the timing being 180* out and that was corrected. Obviously the cam installation is not a problem because it runs and runs smoothly. A timing light would make quick work of identifying a timing issue. A shot of ether would help identify a fuel issue.

Thanks King for agreeing with what I said about 25 posts ago

Lahrs,
Get a light on the darn thing. I'm betting that it'll run well with the ignition timing where it belongs.

Good luck,
Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Thanks King for agreeing with what I said about 25 posts ago

Lahrs,
Get a light on the darn thing. I'm betting that it'll run well with the ignition timing where it belongs.

Good luck,
Jeff

What He Said!

Sorry Jeff,

I Just Had To!

Steve

[lahrs37]

So tonight went back at it armed with all of the good info from the forum. I determined that TDC was lining up with the mark on the balancer. I marked 10 BTDC and hand cranked it until I got it spot on that. I marked my distributer and then accounted for the twist of the rotor as the gears meshed. I got pointed dead at the #1 spark plug wire. I then disconnected the SPOUT connector and WALA it turned over and stayed on! I raced to get my timing light on it only to find out that my light was no longer working. Since I am still in the garage I turned off the car and took a moment to admire my work. I then went to turn it on again and ... nothing! lol I probably need to jump the battery again. But at this point i am starting to get sick and figured it was good to walk away with a win. Thanks everyone! It looks like I am well on my way. I am going to focus on some other parts of the build to prepare for a go-kart and to start it outside next time!
Cheers!

[GoDadGo]

Yea!Yea!
Yea!Yea!Yea!

[Boydster]

snip... The #1 piston was definitely all the way up and the dots lined up. I guess its possible that I was on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke...

If #1 is all the way up and the dots are spot on, then you're OK. Degreeing is really a way to 2x check that you have the right parts and they are made the way they are supposed to be made.

[frankb]

Lahrs...When you installed the timing set, did the crank sprocket have more than one keyway (slot in the sprocket's ID for the key in the crankshaft)? Unless you purchased a high-dollar "performance timing set," I suspect that there is only one keyway and you needn't worry about degreeing the cam as long as you lined the marks up when installing the timing set (chain and sprockets). When installing the timing set, there is no such thing as "compression stroke", only piston position (TDC). Now, if there is more than one keyway in your crank sprocket, as long as you used the timing mark that corresponds with the keyway you used, the cam timing will be close enough to operate the engine correctly. You should refer to the documentation provided with your timing set to be sure. From the video that you posted, it sounds to me like a spark timing issue, not a cam timing issue... BTW, you can check the cam position without disassembling the front half of the engine. You only need to remove the balancer to install a degree wheel on the crankshaft nose and remove the LHS valve cover to access the rockers on #1 cylinder. Use a piston stop to find exact TDC.

Frank B

[RickP]

That is very much appreciated. I am going to try and do the process at least one more time before tearing down. I went back to the main video I used as I was installing my timing chain and watched it again. I am damn near positive I did it right because I had my computer next to me and kept replaying it while I was installing it. It was the thing I was most freaked out about messing up. Here is the video. If that is right, it really should be in right and I am just being a dumbass with the other stuff.
https://youtu.be/NjalAvBQhVE

She's ALIVE! Big step and congrats. Sounds like some fine tuning at this point will get you down the highway. If she ran once, she will run again....

Regarding the video. Wouldn't be fair to comment on it other than, "yes, that's how you install a timing chain". To comment on it would not be wise as we don't know the history of the motor or what led the builder to that point of timing chain install.

In the end, sounds like you are in good shape.

[lahrs37]

OK, so it turns out I had a bad Idle Air Control valve - a common issue with Fox Bodies. Here is the proof.
I can reliably turn the key now!

https://youtu.be/ZcQbsxeyBms

[GoDadGo]

Congratulations!

[Vette1972]

Good job buddy! Something simple for you. Keep at it you doing great. Len

[CraigS]

Dang idle valves have been a pain on Fords and on a lot of other brands for a long time. Glad you have it going now. Good work!

[lahrs37]

OK, so here is a little update to my ongoing starting issues. After what I thought was a successful first start I started going through the checklist of what was needed for a first go-kart. My logic was that I would put off setting the timing until I could at least move the car out of the garage so as not to kill myself or my neighbor with carbon monoxide.
On a snowy day I started it up and it stalled again. Weird, I thought I had fixed that. After a few more times it started and i rolled it out under it's own power. As I went to get a timing light, it died. Ugh. My driveway, such as it is, is on a slight decline. The car was effectively stuck. After 4 hours I was able to round up 3 people to help push her back into the garage - now covered in 3 inches of snow.
Now I can't get her to turn over at all. As I was reading stuff online, I came across something that said that the fuel pump should prime and then turn off after 30 seconds or so. My fuel pump never turns off. I searched that issue with Foxbodies and ran across multiple threads indicating that the computer might be bad. I pulled the computer and opened it up. There is nothing visually wrong that I can tell. But because pretty much EVERYTHING from the old engine has been bad I am going to replace it anyways - the seal was already broken on it so someone was in there before. I have also read about bad fuel pump relays, but that is in old cars. I have a new Ron Francis harness, so that shouldn't be the problem...
I have heard the car run, so the timing is in the ballpark. That in of itself is a big relief. I have replaced the IAC, cleaned the MAF and tested the TPS. There are not many more things that can be wrong! lol

[wareaglescott]

I feel for you. I am also fighting a nagging problem and having trouble getting it resolved. Keep at it. You will get it figured out and have that thing running like a champ soon!

[lahrs37]

I feel for you. I am also fighting a nagging problem and having trouble getting it resolved. Keep at it. You will get it figured out and have that thing running like a champ soon!

Thanks for the encouraging words.

[Joee]

Sent you a pm