Brando's Newbie 818R Build Thread

[mikeb75]

Its a bit hidden:
http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/tu...td04ltd05.aspx

[Brando]

Mike that's perfect. Thank you!

[Wayne Presley]

How much was the dry sump system?

[C.Plavan]

I was throwing that question around the forum when I ordered the dry sump kit but was shot down. I still feel the motor could be dropped a full inch, perhaps more. Definitely something I am interested in looking into.

If I lowered my engine 1", my headers would be way too low on an already too low car. Race curbs can do some real damage.

[C.Plavan]

How much was the dry sump system?

$2499 without hoses/AN fittings (-12).

[wleehendrick]

Mike that's perfect. Thank you!

Mike beat me to it; I got the Kinugawa bellmouth also; it's a nice piece and bolts up perfect, although I haven't welded the rest of my exhaust yet, I have everything I need (3" SS elbow, muffler, 3" SS tailpipe) and should be straight-forward.

[JeromeS13]

Single scroll:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/tu...td04ltd05.aspx

JDM twin scroll:

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/tu...oll3specc.aspx

[JeromeS13]

Wow... I was really late to the game, but didn't see the other responses. Haha

[tango68ss]

Frank (Pearldrummer7) was in the area from N.Y. on business this past week. I took the opportunity to talk some shop with a fellow builder. As always no regrets, this community is solid.
So I took him to a local club, Sutra for the evening with a few other friends. My girl shot this photo and she claims she didn't mean to catch the GOGO dancer. Jury is out on that one. If she did mean to...mad camera skills!

Hey guys, I'm all about the Dry Sump, etc talk... but did you see the @$$ on that Girl!??! (Damn, I've been in Africa too long!)... Nice pic Brando! Makes me remember what I'm fightin' for!!

[metalmaker12]

Hey guys, I'm all about the Dry Sump, etc talk... but did you see the @$$ on that Girl!??! (Damn, I've been in Africa too long!)... Nice pic Brando! Makes me remember what I'm fightin' for!!

Ditto nice rear end on that piece

[Frank818]

Hey guys, I'm all about the Dry Sump, etc talk... but did you see the @$$ on that Girl!??! (Damn, I've been in Africa too long!)... Nice pic Brando! Makes me remember what I'm fightin' for!!

$2499 without hoses. lollll

[Pearldrummer7]

What a great shot! Thanks for the warm welcome to the area and the awesome night out! Karting next time for sure!

You've all but convinced me to go dry sump....

[Scargo]

Where (here) were you shot down on lowering the motor and tranny? I intend to do dry sump and lowering is a consideration of mine. I'm not sure what the negatives are. You can always shim back up... Too much trouble? Perhaps for some without fabbing skills or equipment.
BTW, you could consider lowering the oil reservoir tank. That's over 20 pounds you could dramatically lower and possibly relocate for balance.
EDIT: It is my understanding that you only half fill the reservoir. That's less weight. Still, only 4-5 quarts in the system is not a lot. I wonder if this is typical or if it is common to fill it more?

Mind you, I have yet to do a dry sump. I have read plenty. Looks like yours are Aviad pumps; at least from the Photoshopped image (which is cool), it looks like you used an image of Aviad pumps.
There are two things that come to mind: Why are you not pulling a vacuum on the engine? Consider how the engine is vented. Second is: Why did you not add pumps to suck on the heads (per recommendation of Chris @ KillerBMotorsports)? If you generate sufficient G's then I believe this is worth doing. It IS a flat engine.
Again, I add the caveat that I've never done a dry sump install. I have a pretty fancy setup on my STi which has held me in good stead. That and what I've read lead me to ask the question about a thermostatic valve. You need that if you have an oil cooler. It will bypass the oil cooler until the oil is up to temp. I use a Mocal. If you have 10 or more quarts of oil it takes a while for it to get up to temp. That is why, when it's cool, that some racers run a heater in the oil reservoir.
I have 9+ quarts of oil in my STi's system. Two are in the Accusump. One is in the cooler/lines. Those do not get much circulation, use or heating unless called on. So I'm circulating 7 quarts. Perhaps I'm just saying that it takes a while to warm up a huge oil reservoir and that should be taken into consideration, especially when it's cool and you are revving/pushing the engine.

Edit: Sorry. I was distracted by the buns. I missed some previous posts. If you tie the venting into the PCV spot on the case then you lose any vacuum you might have. The system might need a vacuum relief valve if it works very effectively. Some have suggested that if the oil pump were mounted externally, and part of the dry sump system, that you could better and more easily address the adjustment of oil pressure.
Ideally, I think you need to rework and relocate the exhaust. Have you checked the Db level? Move the muffler and you could relocate the oil reservoir on that side and lower. Here I am, armchair quarterbacking and I haven't touched mine yet.

[Scargo]

There is a lot of technique involved. When I was 18 I worked in a bottling plant. At 147 I was able to beat everyone else in the plant, I did toss 1000's of cases of soda into trucks every night @ 42 lbs/case

Review the video and watch the best guys get their preferred body position. Do some research too.

Reminds me of 50 years ago... (yes, fifty), that at 137, I could out arm wrestle guys twice my weight. I unloaded freight cars and worked in a warehouse. We all go through our phases, whether by choice or not. I had to work and I had to fit in with a lot of blacks. I found a way.

[Brando]

She did have a great assets didn't she.

Scargo I definitely want to keep the vacuum on the engine. I am working with someone to refine what I have thus far, so it's back to the drawing board for a few days.
I played with a few different locations. Until I get a fuel cell and completely sacrifice the passenger seat I rather keep it out of drivers compartment. As far as engine bay location is concerned, aside from directly behind the tires, where it is now is the only spot I could fit it. I can't go any lower it hits the frame. The images I cut up in photoshop were taken from the actually pieces themselves before I installed them. So the sticker on it I suppose was correct

[longislandwrx]

Well sign me up for a CA visit.

[Wayne Presley]

Brando,
Hook up the system so that the only vent is on the top of the oil tank. You can cap all the breathers on the case and valve covers. Put a set pressure vacuum relief valve on one and run with it. Be nice if you could datalog the case vacuum as it will give you a running indicator of the health of the engine.

She did have a great assets didn't she.

Scargo I definitely want to keep the vacuum on the engine. I am working with someone to refine what I have thus far, so it's back to the drawing board for a few days.
I played with a few different locations. Until I get a fuel cell and completely sacrifice the passenger seat I rather keep it out of drivers compartment. As far as engine bay location is concerned, aside from directly behind the tires, where it is now is the only spot I could fit it. I can't go any lower it hits the frame. The images I cut up in photoshop were taken from the actually pieces themselves before I installed them. So the sticker on it I suppose was correct

[Brando]

Awesome Thanks Wayne.
So i should also cap the Peterson oil tank port currently going to pcv
Should I be concerned or make provisions to capture water out of the oil still?

[07FIREBLADE]

She's one of the dancer/bottle service girls. This is actually quite funny I work at Sutra. Might of saw you Brandon but didn't recognize you. Carry on

[Brando]

She was a GoGo that night. That's great Sutra has been my go-to for the past decade. We probably have many mutual friends coming out of that place. I have my 818 at Garage Tuning getting new exhaust routed and some TIG welding done. Did you ever get your engine back from them? Happy with the finished product?

[07FIREBLADE]

Ya I got it back from them awhile ago. I'm currently working on body panels so I can get my VIN and rest of the registration process done. Currently my driver door is stuck and it's giving me tons of issues. I was planning to get up there and have a baseline tune done next week. But I'm not that confident with my time table anymore.

[Brando]

I got my car put back together. Canards installed but haven't cut in the vents yet. Dynopack came in at 350/350. I decided to get a little track session in at Buttonwillow this past Saturday (config 13 cw). I have not run this track in over 6 years so I pretty much had to relearn it.
Unfortunately on my 5th lap I started hearing some bad detonation between 6k-7k RPM. I pulled the car off immediately and called it a day. It was a stinger because Buttonwillow is a 3 hour drive, so 6 hours driving for a 14 minute run. Darn Gremlins.

I am hesitant to post the video because I was driving very passive, not using the entire track by any measure because I was still mapping it out in addition to still feeling the new car setup before pushing any limits. I was downshifting late and missed a few rev matches. I wish I had a few more sessions in to have captured a better video but hey there is one thing to take away from it. At Buttonwillow anything under 2:00 is a respectable time. I ran a 2:05 feeling it out. So that is promising. Sub 2:00 will be easily achievable.

I set the wing AOA of 10 degrees and was planning on pulling some of it out once I felt out the balance. I didn't get the car to under/over steer so I didn't find the sweet spot on the setup. Heck I barely got the tires warm.

Anyways, it was fun to turn this beast at 120mph. It was beyond solid, not a hint of instability and the car was begging to be pushed harder. Soon enough...baby steps.
Speaking of babies, now that I have one and my love for her grows every day, I find it harder to push envelopes I once lived for.



Next on the list is data logging and gauges so I can determine if IAT's, A/F, Boost or whatever else could be causing the detonation can be determined.

[JeromeS13]

Data logging is definitely needed for a race car. I hope you find out soon. I would also like to know your IAT's during a session.

Also, do you have a dyno sheet? How much boost are you running? I'm debating on going ahead and upgrading to the 1.5 XT-R to get my IAT's down...

[Brando]

They did the Dyno outdoors. Their printer was indoors. While they were moving the Dyno unit inside they clipped the surge protector and took down the unit, prior to saving my dyno data.
I am no expert but I felt the dyno showed rather spikey with a unexpected falloff up top.
Weird thing with his boost level readings is how it flatlined at 18lb of boost. It was like it stopped reading after 18lb. I wish I had a graph of the boost to show you what I mean.
I did happen to take a picture of the HP graph before he moved the unit and lost the data. I don't understand why the HP starts wavering after peak. The graphs I have seen with the dom 1.5 look completely different then what I am seeing here.


20140926_165032.jpg

[Scargo]

I think you and the car show promise. As my friend (who's an instructor) would say, "what you need is seat time". I hope it gets sorted out soon so you can play. I remember having a child; I sold my motorcycles and calmed down. New priorities.

[Brando]

I remember having a child; I sold my motorcycles and calmed down. New priorities.

So true. Can't leave the little one behind with no daddy. The "live fast die young" are no longer are words I can live by.

Seat time is definitely going to help, but proven hard to come by thus far.

[C.Plavan]

You should of just filled it with 110 octane they sell there.

Looks good, but that dyno chart is weird. Where is the A/F ratio? What injectors did you get?

[Brando]

I already had 100 octane in it, the detonation came on so strong and loud it had me concerned to continue racing and I recon that 110 wouldn't have solved it. Could be wrong though.
I kept the same 750cc deatschwerks. A/F was a smidgen over 11.

I'm going to spend some time getting this thing plated, it's such a hassle to trailer it around for little things like a dyno tune or simple welding job.

[D Clary]

I would suspect that you need to pull a little timing out of it at high rpm/ boost. you will have a more stable horsepower curve and a lot more leeway for high IAT and octane changes.

[Frank818]

I am no expert but I felt the dyno showed rather spikey with a unexpected falloff up top.

I have never seen a dyno so spikey, it's like if you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

[metalmaker12]

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.

[sponaugle]

I already had 100 octane in it, the detonation came on so strong and loud it had me concerned to continue racing and I recon that 110 wouldn't have solved it. Could be wrong though.
I kept the same 750cc deatschwerks. A/F was a smidgen over 11.

I'm going to spend some time getting this thing plated, it's such a hassle to trailer it around for little things like a dyno tune or simple welding job.

I am surprised you could get knock that is loud enough to be audible while you were driving, especially with 100 octane fuel. Something wrong there. Get some datalogs.

I have never seen a dyno so spikey, it's like if you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

That is a very spiky dyno chart for sure... It reminds me of a turbo that has a weak wastegate spring. It is able to deliver some boost in the midrange but then falls off up top.

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.

Absolutely.. do a road log and post it up. Try doing a pull starting at 1500 rpm in 3rd gear all the way to redline. That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

Cheers,

Jeff

[Brando]

you can only drive it between 4500 and 6000. Is that what you aimed for?

You are joking right? You forgot the wink face

I am surprised you could get knock that is loud enough to be audible while you were driving, especially with 100 octane fuel. Something wrong there.

It was probably the loudest knock I have ever heard. No question the car needed to be pulled off the track and reassessed.

Do a road tune to and log it to see where the issue lies.

Try doing a pull starting at 1500 rpm in 3rd gear all the way to redline. That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

Cool sounds good. I need to find myself a cable and software. I haven't gotten into the ECU yet but I am way overdue. Soon as i get the necessary hardware/software I will grab some data and post it up here.
One concern is the detonation didn't start until the 4th lap, it's going to be hard for me to put that kind of strain and heat on the car driving it around my house with no tags. Hopefully the underlying issue will still expose itself with a few hotlaps around the block.

[JeromeS13]

This is why I went with the JDM twin scroll VF37 on an EJ25. I like my torque.

[Brando]

Can you please point me in the right direction for the best software/hardware solution to use to capture the logs?

[Brando]

This is why I went with the JDM twin scroll VF37 on an EJ25. I like my torque.

That's exactly what I would like to see. Nice bro

I am considering trading in my Dom for a twin scroll setup, but first I want to see the dom 1.5 is capable of on my engine.
Where it is at now is not exemplary of what the 1.5 is capable of, not even close.

[JeromeS13]

Can you please point me in the right direction for the best software/hardware solution to use to capture the logs?

The best/easiest route would be with a Tactrix cable and RomRaider, I believe. There's a whole forum for RomRaider.

[Brando]

That is a great way to get a wide view of the timing and fuel curves.. you can also post your tune if you want and we can take a look.

I ordered the Tactrix and downloaded/installed RomRaider. Currently I am looking at the RomRaider Logger. Lot's of parameters.
What parameters should I be capturing to the Log csv file?

[Scargo]

I think you have a EJ257? 1.5XT-R on it should look something like this. Max boost of 19.9.

EDIT: Oops!

[JeromeS13]

I think you have a EJ257? 1.5XT-R on it should look something like this. Max boost of 19.9.
[/COLOR]

He's running a 2.0 liter, Glyn.