Brando's Newbie 818R Build Thread

[RM1SepEx]

I just picked up the Maine Inspection Book... I'll go through it and make sure I'm kosher... Tho my mechanic has told me he would give me a sticker w/o wipers... He builds old fords... his tow truck is awesome and he goes to Loring AFB in Northern Maine for the LSR event with his model A...

Brandon, this engine going boom problem has me very concerned... you and Chris have started a very expensive trend... Are high speed activities a problem for a basically stock motor?

[Frank818]

He only stated that my kit car had to have everything that a brand new car does, which is vague to say the least.

That's the funniest sentence I've seen in a while!! So you need windows, you need defrost, rear window defroster, you need HVAC, a radio, auto-lock doors, a hood latch, spare tire, driver and passenger side airbags, etc. Really, that is super vague!

Luckily, around here there are 2 manuals I need to respect. The only thing is, I am not 100% sure they are sufficient, as some stuff are not mentioned at all and others are vague (though not as much as your trooper).

Sorry for the quick hijack Brando.

[metalmaker12]

Sorry Chad, I have been in Mexico. I will grab a measurement tonight when I get home.

So I am putting my quest for a CA street legal 818R on hold. This car is going to be a dedicated track car until spring at the soonest.
For those of you wishing to register your car in CA be aware. I failed my brake and light inspection today.
Before my test I made sure the dashboard illuminated for my parking brake, high beams and blinkers. I had my rear license plate illumination lights working, backup lights and blinkers/hazards working. I thought I had all my bases covered and most of the failures came as a surprise.




Here is the fix list:

• Rear backup and turn lights are LED and not DOT
  - This one is tough. The only thing i can think of is to drill a hole in the rear and put a white DOT surface light then replace the existing turn signal with an amber DOT surface light. Ugh
• Turns signals must auto cancel
  - Install stock steering column and wire up. Ugh
• Head lights are at 20.5 - must be at 22"
  - Put front suspension at street height, tighten front coils. They wont pass 21.75 so if its still short i will get larger diameter donut tires on a temporary rim to pass. UGH!!
• Brake hose close to tire at full crank
  - Need to adjust
• Proportioning valve not DOT
  - Bypass valve
• Steel braided brake lines not DOT
  - Replace lines with rubber DOT lines
• Rear reflectors missing
  - Find and install
• License plate lights LED and not DOT
  - Find DOT license plate lights

So instead of dealing with all that nonsense I am going to rebuild my motor instead. I want more HP and there is an underlying issue with my bottom end. That noise the gopro was picking up is now noticeable while driving. Scargo you were right again darn-it. I think it's a wrist pin.

I'm taking this opportunity to do a 2.2 stroker. First thought is STI crank, manly pistons and rods, garrett turbo, align hone block and perhaps more depending on what i see once in there. Racing tolerances.
I'm debating an LSD but think i might stick with my first plan and wait to grenade my 5spd and take the LSD built into the 6spd when the time comes.

I am bummed to be out of commission but plan on building a stronger more durable race motor so in the long haul its for the better.

Metalmaker, we are in the same boat now buddy!

Yeah, it sucks man, and the DMV is not cool in CA, I found a small coolant leak and when I took off cap the coolant seemed to bubble up. I am going to pressure test it soon. It is coolant leak,and air pockets with maybe a hot spot and maybe made head gasket go night night. I got mike Eversons hard lines and I wil be getting the coolant bleeder tool. I have to finish bodywork and paint, but than I am getting motor apart to see the damage.

[Brando]

Brandon, this engine going boom problem has me very concerned... you and Chris have started a very expensive trend... Are high speed activities a problem for a basically stock motor?

I see so many people racing WRX's and they don't seem too have many issues. Perhaps part of the problem is buying used engines or someone else's problem, not to mention the fact I'm less mechanically inclined then the lower-average of you guys so i'm likely to make mistakes that can domino into larger issues. If i could start over I would have opened the motor and rebuilt it properly. I took a gamble and unknowingly built up then ran the heck out of a failing motor. I'm learning quickly but the school of hard knocks is not cheap in this sport/hobby.

[mikeb75]

I see so many people racing WRX's and they don't seem too have many issues. Perhaps part of the problem is buying used engines or someone else's problem, not to mention the fact I'm less mechanically inclined then the lower-average of you guys so i'm likely to make mistakes that can domino into larger issues. If i could start over I would have opened the motor and rebuilt it properly. I took a gamble and unknowingly built up then ran the heck out of a failing motor. I'm learning quickly but the school of hard knocks is not cheap in this sport/hobby.

Welcome to the fun of tracking Subaru's...
The EJ engines are pretty good at normal street use levels, but (IMHO) the design does have some issues at track stress levels. The oiling system in particular can have problems at high lateral loads due to the configuration of the engine (flat). I've had problems with the bypass/blow-by and an AOS on track with street tires, you must have been pulling some good sustained side-loads on track. I've been debating the expense of dry sump vs an accusump for insurance, and you've just given me a bunch more to think about (sorry).

Good luck with the teardown, looking forward to seeing more of your build and the car on the track.

[longislandwrx]

Dear God not LED License plate lights!!!

Thank you for being a space monkey Brando... you'll get there. Seems like most of these aren't too bad. Amber turn signals, and throw a round reverse light from something like a scion xb down in the mesh temporarily.
Jack it up monster truck style. I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column. Something like

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Cancel-...item3ce36de5c1

[Scargo]

Welcome to the fun of tracking Subaru's...
The EJ engines are pretty good at normal street use levels, but (IMHO) the design does have some issues at track stress levels. The oiling system in particular can have problems at high lateral loads due to the configuration of the engine (flat). I've had problems with the bypass/blow-by and an AOS on track with street tires, you must have been pulling some good sustained side-loads on track. I've been debating the expense of dry sump vs an accusump for insurance, ...

I've been modifying and racing Subies for three years in HPDE and a little autocross before that. I might have fifty days on various road courses. Early on I broke ring lands on stock pistons once due to oil getting into the CAI. I thought I had a catch-can that would handle the blowby but the particular track had a more than a 180 degree carousel. I quickly filled my can and then the oil was sucked into the intake. That's all it takes if you run near 20 PSI and lose your octane level through oil dilution. There's lots of little things that you need to know and deal with. I have not had a reliability issue since.
Don't take my word for any of this. One of the best educations you can get is to go on NASIOC, IWSTI, scoobymods.com or clubwrx.net. and pay attention to the "stickies" in various categories.

[Mechie3]

Dear God not LED License plate lights!!!

If we allow LED license plate lights....then the terrorists have already won!


I picked up the inspection requirements for Indiana and already got part 1 done:

1: Have police verify no Vin exists, note chassis ID and motor ID
2: Take picture and form to BMV to get VIN
3: Attach VIN to car
4: Have police verify VIN is attached to car
5: Take form from line 4 to BMV and get plates

No....inspection....ever. Awww yeah! We don't even have inspection for normal street legal cars.

[Brando]

No....inspection....ever. Awww yeah! We don't even have inspection for normal street legal cars.

Wouldn't that be nice

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column. Something like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-Cancel-...item3ce36de5c1

That is awesome. I'm into it and that's a great alternative to replacing the column just for an inspection. Thanks for that tip.
In reguards to the reverse lights, unfortunately they need to be on the same lateral plane as the existing lights. But I could cut out and install mesh up higher where the license plate currently is then drop some temporary lights in there.

There are a few surrounding cities that are for lack of words ghetto. I'm also considering the idea of finding a place that will overlook a few of these items, i'm not sure how consistent one place is from the next.
It doesn't matter, i'm pulling my panels off and getting ready to rebuild it so it can all sit on the backburner.

Having the car down and out for 6 weeks is a good thing, I haven't been entirely focused on work since it was delivered

Since I am tearing down the powerplant I want to make sure I cover all the bases. The drysump/accusump topic is something i'm learning more about. Scargo, when you say "can" I'm not sure what your referring to. Sorry for the ignorant question, but i'm confused how a long turn ends up pulling oil into the intake. I thought the problem was long turns starving the motor of oil. Maybe i'm way off here

[Brando]

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

[Boog]

I know for the roadster guys they make an inertia based canceling system, that may be easier than the new column.

I keep seeing their banner add pop up. Looks like they are a silver sponsor. http://www.gasautosolutions.com/

[ehansen007]

Call me and I''ll give you my guys. In and out.

[matteo92065]

Call me and I''ll give you my guys. In and out.

I'll take you up on that offer in about 3 months.

[wleehendrick]

I thought I had all my bases covered and most of the failures came as a surprise.

Here is the fix list:

Crap! I have a lot of those items (BPV, SS lines, LED bulbs) on my S! I thought the lamp clusters were DOT Hella fixtures? Maybe just an incandescent bulb will make it legal? Pretty silly since LEDS are far more reliable and lots of new vehicles have LED brake, turn and DRLs, and even headlights.

And the R windshield and lack of wipers wasn't an issue? Do you think you got a harsh referee?

Looks like I'll hold onto my donor rims/tires in case I run into the headlight height issue also. You're welcome to borrow a couple whenever you want.

[wleehendrick]

I'll take you up on that offer in about 3 months.

Ditto, Erik!

[Brando]

And the R windshield and lack of wipers wasn't an issue? Do you think you got a harsh referee?

This wasn't a Ref. This was the Brake and Light inspection and its in addition to the Ref inspection. I still have to deal with the seat belts and windshield and who knows what else to appease the Refs. One thing at a time....and that thing is powerplant for me

[Brando]

Brandon-

What is the approx measurement from the rear hood pin frame bracket to the fiberglass windshield surround (that we had to trim?). I just want to know how far back the windshield fiberglass cowl/surround should go.

Mine ended up 3/8" away which also was flush with the rear side splash guard.

[Brando]

I am tempted to get one last day of AutoX in this Saturday before taking my car out of commission.

As it stands the motor knocking presents primarily when starting it for approx 1-2 seconds then goes away. You can also slightly hear it when coasting in gear > 4k RPM. Besides that everything sounds fine.
Shouldn't I be OK to get one more day of AutoX in?

I feel like there will be more knocking before failure and this is just an early sign? Maybe this is a post best served on NASIOC

[longislandwrx]

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

reading up on it, it looks like once the inertia sensor cancels the lights, the switch position is ignored until recentered and a turn reselected. maybe post in the roadster forum.. i'm sure a few guys have them.

I feel like there will be more knocking before failure and this is just an early sign?

Guys drive for months with knock... is it worse than this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9LJP1mw0es


unless you are facing a $300 towing charge, have one more hurrah... hell put some 110 unleaded in there crank up the boost up to 22 and go for ruin! The only problem is getting bearing material in the turbo/heads. A new oil filter should prevent this. Why not. YOLO!

[Brando]

Unless you are facing a $300 towing charge, have one more hurrah... hell put some 110 unleaded in there crank up the boost up to 22 and go for ruin! The only problem is getting bearing material in the turbo/heads. A new oil filter should prevent this. Why not. YOLO!

No way that's awesome. Thank you for that video and the kick in the rear it was just what i needed...Im in.

[RM1SepEx]

go a wee heavier on the oil so it builds a bit more pressure in the bearings...

[Boog]

How would that work? If the switch is still toggled for a turn will it still cancel the turn signal even thought the button is not centered?

I'm pretty sure the inertia turn signal only works with a momentary switch. They don't show what happens if you were to hold the switch to one side, but it probably wont work as intended. There is a long and boring (but informative) video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-YO7Cm7QI

[longislandwrx]

if the sensor never felt the turn though would they just stay on indefinitely then? maybe theres a timeout. either way, I imagine the turn signal switch you have could be converted to momentary if you are crafty, or a quick on off would accomplish the same.

[Boog]

I think you can press something (maybe the other direction) to cancel the signal.

[matteo92065]

Pull valve covers, then take off the cam bearing caps on both sides. You only need to remove the caps farthest way from the cam timing belt. Just look at it to see if there is evidence of galling. I've recently worked on three of these engines with problems and all three had problems in the same spot. One of them got so bad it broke the cam.
Its an easy inspection that does not require any new gaskets, parts or other consumables.

[metalmaker12]

If you remove the valve covers you should replace the gaskets, especially on an used engine. His problem could be many things

[Zach34]

[*]Turns signals must auto cancel
- Install stock steering column and wire up. Ugh

Will they accept a timer-based auto-cancelling setup like the ones they offer for motorcycles (turn signal stops after a period of time), or does it have to be tied to steering wheel motion?

[Brando]

I know timer based wont work, i asked that specifically. Not sure if it has to be tied to steering wheel or centrifugal. Eric (ehanson) has registered his 33 without problem and feels some places are more stringent then others. I'm going to give his place a try before putting the entire registration task on hold. Who knows, they might accept my blinkers as is.

[Brando]

I keep getting different opinions. Some people say I can drive this motor for a while, others say catastrophic failure is around the corner and don't drive it. I threw together a quick video of a cold start, a slow acceleration, a hard pull, and coasting 2nd gear. The first start and coasting (~40 seconds in the video) is where you can hear knocking but other than that it sounds fine.
I know it's hard to diagnose by listening to an internet audio clip but i would like to hear your opinion. The knocking i hear from other ej20's on the internet is FAR worse...so perhaps i'm over reacting?

[Frank818]

The knocking i hear from other ej20's on the internet is FAR worse...

Maybe, but any knocking isn't good.
I like the way you start the engine.

[Scargo]

A knock, whether it is from a rod bearing or wrist pin might not affect your feeling of normalcy other than the sound. It might be an incremental difference in power loss from a rod bearing or cam lobe gone flat but no loss from a piston pin. $20 and you could have your oil analyzed. Compression check and bleed-down are almost free. I doubt a compression test would tell you anything. If it were smoking badly and off on power it might be a busted piston/ring lands. I'm betting on piston pin slap since it's lasted this long.
Just as a side note: shifting sure is noisy. I think most of it is linkage noise.

[Brando]

When I decelerate there is a loud vibration, it's the same noise you hear during a shift. I dont think this video captured that sound however, all i hear is the bov. The virbration sound is coming from the pressure plate area. I was told it's nothing to worry about but it is rather annoying. A few have said if I reinstall that external Spring that attaches to the clutch fork it would go away. Not sure what it is but it's definitely not piston related

What type of place would you go to get your oil analysis? That's something I would be into

[Scargo]

Blackstone Labs. Testing will give you percentages of metals in the oil. Will point to specific areas, based on composition. Bearing = more lead/copper.
The other sounds like clutch chatter. Could be worse decelerating vs accelerating. What if you were to take off gently/shift gently? Was it a new clutch/pressure plate for the build?

[Brando]

Oh that sound. Yes that is clutch chatter. It's a stage 2 exedy and pressure plate and yes it was new on build. Very hard to get off line with no chatter. If I take off gently its even worse
Will look into Blackstone labs, thanks

[metalmaker12]

I can't confirm the rod knock or slap from video. I would muffle down exhaust and let it idle to really here a knock or slap of some kind. Do a leakdown test yourself and oil analysis to see, it will confirm if things are sealing properly and if you have engine shavings in your oil.
Seems to pull normal, and no lose of power?? Might be just the pressure plate chatter. Also I know you already bought the clutch and pressure plate, but I have tried a few and tend to favor ACT clutches and stock flywheels. I have an ACT stage 2 and it's almost oem feel just harder to push down.

[apexanimal]

i'd think it would be up to your willingness to rebuild something if it does go wrong... if you don't mind, then go for it... if you do, then play it safe...

[longislandwrx]

my apologies for the bad? advice, hope you got some time out of it.

[Brando]

No regrets. Rod spun on my 2nd run. I'm glad it seized an an AutoX 10 minutes from home instead of losing a full track day and hours of towing. That decision was a blessing so thank you .

Nothing catastrophic happened, my heads are fine and now I get to build my motor how I wanted to in the first place.

I can't deny I miss my 818. My hobby left a huge void in my garage and i'm going stir crazy without it. I feel like a lurker on this forum trying to get my fix vicariously though you guys...Well actually not you because you don't post anymore

[longislandwrx]

ouch so it's tough love ... well you guys certainly motivate.

[Brando]

I didn't think this was quite fitting to put on my build thread. Then I realized, the ONLY REASON i'm getting into this is because I'm getting a little stir crazy without my car to work on. This weekend I challenged some of the worlds best arm wrestlers. Next weekend, who knows. I better get my car back before I get hurt doing something off the beaten path.

What did I get myself into. I saw the commercial on TV and 2 days later here I am...in way over my head. The first person I am pulling against is 3 time world champion Marcio Barboza. I think I picked up another addiction

The UAL 8