Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[C.Plavan]

Radiator/Overflow tank bracket finished printing- Turned out pretty good.

[longislandwrx]

I can dig it.

[Frank818]

Pretty nice! Part of the 70% success, I guess.

Your rad fans and shroud look cool, I see mishimoto on them, any model, specs or something? If you already mentioned all that, could you remind me when in time or post #/page you think that could be?

[C.Plavan]

Pretty nice! Part of the 70% success, I guess.

Your rad fans and shroud look cool, I see mishimoto on them, any model, specs or something? If you already mentioned all that, could you remind me when in time or post #/page you think that could be?

Thanks- That is an untouched finish. You can always sand or paint- But I think they look good as is. I'm printing out a bottom support now for the coolant tank-

Yes, Mishimoto radiator and fan kit. All aluminum for a WRX

[Frank818]

Found it on amazon $220, not bad. I have the older style rad with the inlet on the top right corner so not sure this model fits. I'll check on mishimoto's site. Good lead.

[C.Plavan]

I have been a designing fool today. Maybe because it is 106 degrees today and the garage is hot!

Lower is bracket done. The more I use this thing, the more I love it. I should sell some of this stuff

Dyson loves barking at the 3D printer....


Lower tank knob "pops" into the bracket hole snuggly.


All mounted up-



I also bent the rear firewall another 10+ degrees so it clears my seat. My powder coater had an old school break that would fit the whole firewall. I need to rivnut and mount that when its cooler.

[RM1SepEx]

I have an air conditioner in my insulated garage... it's noisy but so am I!

[Frank818]

I should sell some of this stuff

Well, yeah! Why not? I bet if you can build a full wiper system that doesn't need a cut in the hood you'll pay off your 818 in a few weeks. Ok ok, 3D printers are not "that" good yet. But bracket-wise, it's awesome and if I decide to use the same parts as you, at the same location, darn I'd love to get your brackets.

[C.Plavan]

I have an air conditioner in my insulated garage... it's noisy but so am I!

You are lucky! I talked with the "Boss" of the household. Once we finish the first phase of our backyard, I getting an A/C unit for the garage. I'm out there too much to be uncomfortable.

Pics of the re-bent firewall before rivnut central. I need to take the seat out and start drilling.

[mjazzka]

The 3D printer is awesome. Pricey, yes. Not sure I would buy it just for the 818R- but I use it for other things too. I bought the printer that prints in ABS plastic instead of the PLA plastic. ABS is much more durable than PLA. Its better for what I am doing.

One thing to keep in mind is that 3D printing is alot of trial and error- its not as easy as making an item, then printing it. There are alot of variables like nozzle temp, build plate temp etc. This part will take 5 hours to print because I'm doing 100% infill (Solid). Prototypes I do 10% fill (hollow/ honeycombed inside) to save time and plastic.
30% of the time there are printing failures- Print comes of build plate in middle of print, then you have a plastic glob. etc- So it takes time to get things right. It's not like sending a document to your inkjet for a print.

The camber was minimal (R ride height) without cutting, I think it was only -.5 to -1 fully cranked down.

I REALLY like the 3D printed parts, the quality of your parts is extremely good. What kind of printer do you have? I just got my own printer, and am looking forward to using it exactly like you are. Mine is a QU-BD Two-Up, about as cheap as it gets ($300). It also is pretty limited in capabilities, but the price can't be beat. You might answer this question when you tell me the kind of printer you have, but you really can't print in PLA? It has a lower extrusion temperature, and is usually regarded as easier to work with.

After just getting mine and all of my friends telling me "print me a _____!!!", I can't tell you how many times I have had to explain how hard printers are to get perfected, and that they aren't just press and play. -_-

[C.Plavan]

I REALLY like the 3D printed parts, the quality of your parts is extremely good. What kind of printer do you have? I just got my own printer, and am looking forward to using it exactly like you are. Mine is a QU-BD Two-Up, about as cheap as it gets ($300). It also is pretty limited in capabilities, but the price can't be beat. You might answer this question when you tell me the kind of printer you have, but you really can't print in PLA? It has a lower extrusion temperature, and is usually regarded as easier to work with.

After just getting mine and all of my friends telling me "print me a _____!!!", I can't tell you how many times I have had to explain how hard printers are to get perfected, and that they aren't just press and play. -_-

Haha- Yeah- I have my friends wanting me to print them stuff for their car's..... It's not that easy AND they want me to design the part..... That takes the most time. Half the things I make around the house, my wife either loves (Razor holders in the shower), or hates (Frother holder that attaches to the Keurig)... The kid loves I can print him stuff for his Legos (one off parts).

I have the Makerbot Replicator 2X- It's the ABS model. From what I have been told and read, ABS is a little more finicky to work with, but melting point is much higher on ABS than PLA (this is good for race cars depending on what you are making). Its also stronger. I think that is important for what I am making. The build plate is kept at 120-130 degree Celsius, then the nozzles are at 230-240 degree Celsius (~464 degrees F).

A good source on the pro's/ cons of PLA and ABS:
http://www.absplastic.eu/pla-vs-abs-plastic-pros-cons/

The other cool thing is anything I make can be made out of aluminum. I can use the same design file and send it to a CNC shop. So I can prototype in ABS make sure it fits, then can send to a CNC shop (eMachineshop.com). Its pricey, so it pays to be making alot of parts to sell. I have a local guy now.

Either way, PLA or ABS you are going to love it.

[mjazzka]

I'm pretty familiar with the differences and pros and cons of using either, and I definitely see why you use ABS for the car! I just haven't dealt with any printers that can only do ABS, because usually they can do PLA if they can do ABS. I think the Makerbot build plate is what keeps you from using the PLA due to the high temperature, but I have seen some work-arounds you might try if you ever felt the need. But hey, if you don't have any problems with it, then there you go! Might as well just leave it be.

As for 3D modeling, that's the easy part for me, being a senior Mech. E major I have Solidworks, and it almost spits out the models faster than I can think of them. Fiddling with my $300 printer is what consumes my time... I hear you about expensive CNC shops too, that's why it's on the list of things to get eventually Have you ever looked into using a Techshop, or something similar? They let you do the machining yourself, if your interested in learning how. Of course, your time might be much better spent just ordering the parts.

[Scargo]

...The other cool thing is anything I make can be made out of aluminum. I can use the same design file and send it to a CNC shop. So I can prototype in ABS make sure it fits, then can send to a CNC shop (eMachineshop.com). Its pricey, so it pays to be making alot of parts to sell. I have a local guy now...

I was in prototyping, but out of it now for 12 years. Chuckle. Actually doing some pro bono consulting today for a friend with products he wants to develop.
Have you looked into investment casting VS machining? ABS RP, with its limitations, always makes me think of metal castings. Any local foundries? I know people are doing it and some use PLA patterns. Don't know what materials can be swapped out to run in the personal/home grade printers.
My specialty was urethane casting in RTV silicone rubber molds. Glass-filled, high impact with molded-in inserts. Not great around high heat. Would be good for some things.
How about getting SLS parts made once your design is proven? I haven't a clue where prices are now for prototypes.
PS: don't forget radii, fillets and customizing. Those are almost free in RP and can make the parts so sexy and unique.

[Mechie3]

.. It's not that easy AND they want me to design the part..... That takes the most time.

I've had people say "hey, I need this part to interface with these two other parts (neither of which I have). If i send you a picture I found on the internet can you make me one? lol. Don't think I can take a cell phone pic of an item taken at an angle and make a part that is +/- .005" People who have never used cnc's/printers/etc under estimate the work required to spit out parts.

[C.Plavan]

I was in prototyping, but out of it now for 12 years. Chuckle. Actually doing some pro bono consulting today for a friend with products he wants to develop.
Have you looked into investment casting VS machining? ABS RP, with its limitations, always makes me think of metal castings. Any local foundries? I know people are doing it and some use PLA patterns. Don't know what materials can be swapped out to run in the personal/home grade printers.
My specialty was urethane casting in RTV silicone rubber molds. Glass-filled, high impact with molded-in inserts. Not great around high heat. Would be good for some things.
How about getting SLS parts made once your design is proven? I haven't a clue where prices are now for prototypes.
PS: don't forget radii, fillets and customizing. Those are almost free in RP and can make the parts so sexy and unique.

I'm a total Newb with this stuff. I just started it once I received the 3D printer for Xmas from my Wife. So I have no clue what you are talking about...lol I'm just enhancing my 818R build using some pretty cool tools.

I've had people say "hey, I need this part to interface with these two other parts (neither of which I have). If i send you a picture I found on the internet can you make me one? lol. Don't think I can take a cell phone pic of an item taken at an angle and make a part that is +/- .005" People who have never used cnc's/printers/etc under estimate the work required to spit out parts.

I know how you feel..... I had someone ask me to print a gun part......

[longislandwrx]

I know how you feel..... I had someone ask me to print a gun part......

Wait.. I though there are no guns in California... or was it Arnold?

[flynntuna]

Ya, but can it make a cup of Earl Grey?

[C.Plavan]

Wait.. I though there are no guns in California... or was it Arnold?

Oh there are guns.... We need them to fight off the Kalifornia Kommies.... :P

Garage is a cool 104 degrees.... and my IWire harness just showed up. I WANT to work on it, but its too damn hot.

[Frank818]

Oh there are guns.... We need them to fight off the Kalifornia Kommies.... :P

Hum, that's not what you wrote at first. lollll Good old edit feature, hey.

[C.Plavan]

Hum, that's not what you wrote at first. lollll Good old edit feature, hey.

Yep- Edit.....

I ventured into the garage and finished the upper rear firewall with rivnuts. I'm digging those aluminum washers that Sixstar told me about.

I tried to cover the "factory drilled" holes with no avail.... one was going to show no matter what, or the spacing would not be equal... I wish those guys in shipping would take some time and measure. That way we do not have to deal with their unsightly holes- at least be uniform.

[bompus]

Where did you get those washers?

[C.Plavan]

Those are from Allstar Performance aluminum countersunk washers (Summit/ Jegs). I got the 1/4" ones.

[longislandwrx]

Chad, how about printing a wiper motor to transmission bushing. Mine cracked on my WRX and apparently they don't sell them separate from the wiper transmission. You'd make a small (literal) fortune
I'd send you one to scan and print but mine has disintegrated.

[C.Plavan]

Chad, how about printing a wiper motor to transmission bushing. Mine cracked on my WRX and apparently they don't sell them separate from the wiper transmission. You'd make a small (literal) fortune
I'd send you one to scan and print but mine has disintegrated.

If you can figure out the specs, I can print you one.

Why do you need a wiper for the R??? :P

FYI- I made my own version of the steering column spacer. I should have that done in the next day.

[mjazzka]

Those are from Allstar Performance aluminum countersunk washers (Summit/ Jegs). I got the 1/4" ones.

They're aluminum so they must be pretty light. Are you planning on using them in the rest of the car, or just for parts that are going to be visible? I imagine they are pretty good for load distribution. And at $8 for 10, that's not bad at all.

[C.Plavan]

They're aluminum so they must be pretty light. Are you planning on using them in the rest of the car, or just for parts that are going to be visible? I imagine they are pretty good for load distribution. And at $8 for 10, that's not bad at all.

They are really nice. I plan on using them where feasible (Side body mounting, Under tray below seats, Rear Diffuser mounting/ Front Splitter.

[FFRSpec72]

Mr. Plavan, have you looked at chassis lift points yet for the track, like adding frame tube front and rear on each side to allow one to slip in a jack bar, as the car is going to be low and was looking not to have to repeat the issues I away have with my challenge car and lifting that for up minor work at the track? I was thinking something like this or any other ideas folks may have

HarryGentry-MG-Midget-AE.jpg

[metalmaker12]

The 818 is there lowest car so this will be a good idea

[C.Plavan]

Mr. Plavan, have you looked at chassis lift points yet for the track, like adding frame tube front and rear on each side to allow one to slip in a jack bar, as the car is going to be low and was looking not to have to repeat the issues I away have with my challenge car and lifting that for up minor work at the track? I was thinking something like this or any other ideas folks may have

HarryGentry-MG-Midget-AE.jpg

Yep- Thought about that. I was originally going with Airjacks (For endurance racing), but the new turbo, intercooler, injectors I need threw that out the window. I was going to wait till I get the body on. What you have pictured is a similar setup to a stock 911.

[wallace18]

I had to buy a special low profile jack to get under mine when done. If I had a flat I am not sure even that would work. I like the frame tube idea.

[Scargo]

Yep- Thought about that. I was originally going with Airjacks

Why not go with air jacks? By the time you do all the work to modify the frame and use jacking inserts you could be halfway to air jacks. Plus, the weight of the 818 is not so high that you could not afford air jacks. Seems to me the tune of the engine could easily handle the weight.

[FFRSpec72]

Why not go with air jacks? By the time you do all the work to modify the frame and use jacking inserts you could be halfway to air jacks. Plus, the weight of the 818 is not so high that you could not afford air jacks. Seems to me the tune of the engine could easily handle the weight.

Frame mod will be under $40 depending on where I put them, the main issue will be body. I'm looking to go cheap, while air jacks are nice, just something else that I have to service like the lines, couplings, seals, etc. and also having high pressure nitrogen tank at track

[C.Plavan]

Well the airjack money will surely be gone for now. After a few of the 818 track car motor problems- I'm thinking about ditching my whole Killer B setup and going Drysump. I would hate to mess up my new built motor on the first time out. I have the drysump system on my vintage race car (stock) and never had any problems oiling wise. I'm still researching.

Anyone know if you go to an Drysump setup if you still need a AOS?

More printing fun- My version of a Steering Column spacer-



I did 80% fill (100% would be solid block) Stupid strong- as reference the Blue protoype is 20 or 15% fill (honeycomb) I stopped mid print- I think 20% would of been plenty strong for this application.

[Brando]

You're really getting me interested in a 3D printer. I have always wanted one but never could justify the reason. Your improving on your design skills, nice looking piece.

I tried using a low profile jack but at R height i still can't get under the car, especially if I take a path crossing over the valence. I have been driving the car up onto 2 X 4's so i can get the jack underneath it. I like the idea of a lift point, but the side panels come out so far from the side tubing i don't see how you would accomplish it. Lead the way

[C.Plavan]

You're really getting me interested in a 3D printer. I have always wanted one but never could justify the reason. Your improving on your design skills, nice looking piece.

I tried using a low profile jack but at R height i still can't get under the car, especially if I take a path crossing over the valence. I have been driving the car up onto 2 X 4's so i can get the jack underneath it. I like the idea of a lift point, but the side panels come out so far from the side tubing i don't see how you would accomplish it. Lead the way

Brandon- Thanks- They are alot of fun. The software is limiting my imagination. I need to look at other programs.

The only problem is, you start thinking about other things you can make, then never spend time working on the actual car.

I did cut the front UCA's like you- I got -4.5 degrees on one side....lol. I adjusted back to -3, but it's nice to know the adjustment is there if needed.

[Frank818]

Can't wait for 3D printers to print through an alu block!

[Brando]

I got -4.5 degrees on one side

Jeez, nice.

Was checking them out and DrySumps are $3,500? You have to be kidding me....that's how much stroking the motor would be. I thought the killerB baffle helped with sloshing oil so i'm wondering why that alone isn't adequate? The only negative I heard about them is that they starve the motor on start-up but wouldn't an Accusump take care of that? I have a killerB pickup and baffle on my motor now. The more i read the more I'm realizing the stock bearings are garbage. I'm leaning towards a new bottom end with quality parts and an accusump and calling it a day. DrySump is getting to cray cray for me

[Mechie3]

The only problem is, you start thinking about other things you can make, then never spend time working on the actual car.

No. That never happens. Ever.

baffle

The baffle is meant more to control oil returning from the heads and prevent it from sloshing onto the crank during jerky movements (ie: hard shift). It doesn't do as much to prevent oil from pooling in the head during an extended high G turn.

[FFRSpec72]

I'm not seeing a lot of issues with stock (slightly modified) Subaru engines for road racing as I'm out with these guys and they continue to run w/o too many issues, I can see more issues with auto-x and rally.

[Boog]

The baffle is meant more to control oil returning from the heads and prevent it from sloshing onto the crank during jerky movements (ie: hard shift). It doesn't do as much to prevent oil from pooling in the head during an extended high G turn.

So is the problem with high G, sweeping turns due to oil starvation because it doesn't get enough oil back into the pan to be pumped? Or that excess oil in the heads causes some sort of mechanical interference? Or both?