Will there be a MK-V?

[wesmantoothAZ]

I'm going through the fun process of dreaming about and planning for my first roadster when a question popped in my head...will FFR come out with a MK-V and if so, when? I'm asking myself this because I am the guy who would purchase a new MK-IV kit and Dave Smith would come out the next day announcing the MK-V. What do you think? Also, what improvements/changes would/could/should FFR make to the hypothetical MK-V?

-Wes

[thestigwins]

I assume there will be another version coming out at some point. FFR posted a picture of the mark IV kit in the R&D room. I can't recall what was posted with the picture but I believe it said that "they had something up their sleeves". I think there is always room for improvement on any product no matter how good.

Grant

[Mike N]

I see don't any need for a significant revision (MkV), just about all the likely upgrades / improvements have been rolled into the MkIV. If the 818 body technology works as well as expected at some point you might seem a body upgrade, maybe not. However there are constant rumors swirling about a 289 derivative either FIA or slabside. That car would likely require a revision to the frame (birdcage) and aluminum to make it work. So if you dream about a 289 car then perhaps you should hold out a little longer otherwise I don't see any reason to wait.

[DARKPT]

I'd suggest going directly to MkVI. Too many people in the Boston area pronouncing "Mahk 5" will certainly bring the lawyers representing Speed Racer .

[ClemsonS197]

I believe Dave Smith said MKIV is the last.

[Gordon Levy]

If the did come out with an updated version it won't be for quite a few years. I think they did the Mark 3 for 8 years,

[FFinisher]

I doubt it would be soon if ever. I would not wait. Why wait? start living your dream now. I Have a MKIII that I built in 2006. I have built several others, three that I owned, two of those were MKIV's. There are a ton of improvements over the years since the MKIII, but its still great car and the one I keep.

You could wait forever, if the timing is right for you and your family and you can afford it , go for it. Its not something you will regret.

[MPTech]

I'm building a MK4 and can't think of any improvements significant enough to warrant a new version.
My only disappointment was the decision to stop delivering the dropped trunk that was an original MK4 upgrade. But no problem, I made my own! That's the great thing about these cars, if you don't like something, change it yourself!

[wesmantoothAZ]

MPTech, do you have any pictures of the dropped trunk you're making? That seems like something I'd be interested in modifying as well.

As for the upgrades I was thinking FFR could incorporate, they would be the improvements that you can already get through the vendor network such as a battery box, thicker firewall, A/C & heater option, power steering & brakes, fan shroud, etc.. What would everyone think if they offered a new version of their complete package with these upgrades and maybe a few others? Sort of a "Deluxe" complete package...

[Gordon Levy]

If you want to wonder out to my shop sometime we cam talk about the pro's and can's of some of the different possible options out there.

[MPTech]

Here's a good post with several examples (mine is post #21).

Trunk Expansion Kits

[KC Wildcat]

I believe you never say never. I do not see a whole lot of improvements, but nobody knows what the future holds. What kind of changes could be on a mk-V? Some type of new body molding process or material. Carbon fiber? An improved mold technique with a bodywork-less finish? Some new material that is lighter/stronger than the aluminum panels? Maybe altered for a different engine/transmission combo or maybe a new IRS setup (what if you could plug and plan a new IRS out some new production car? say a 2025 Mustang?

Is any of this likely or anywhere near the top of FFR's priorities or wish list? I highly doubt it. I could forsee more 818 variants, a newer design GTM, or even a new model all ahead of a mk-v roadster.

[wesmantoothAZ]

@MPTehch, really nice looking. I had seen a kit that made little triangle boxes but I like this design way more. Do you plan to. Put some sore of access dore over the top and make it more of a hidden compartment or keep it open with th crossmembers exposed. I think either would. Work nice.

[timmy318]

....Some type of new body molding process or material. Carbon fiber? An improved mold technique with a bodywork-less finish?...

I think they might apply the thermoformed process to all their other kits (if it actually pans out). I've heard that the initial setup of the process is very $$$$, but once you start it it's supposedly very easy & cheap. I believe DS said that the fit of the current 818 panels (not yet finished though) is better than any of their other kits out-of-the-box. IMHO, I don't see any more "upgrades" of the MV-IV. Maybe some "mods" but nothing major enough for another kit. Now..... 818 variants in the future...... That's a whole different subject !

[David]

I believe Dave Smith said MKIV is the last.

+1

David

[2FAST4U]

I assume there will be another version coming out at some point. FFR posted a picture of the mark IV kit in the R&D room. I can't recall what was posted with the picture but I believe it said that "they had something up their sleeves". I think there is always room for improvement on any product no matter how good.

Grant

That "something" is a 289 version. It is currently on hold until the 818 gets up and going

[skullandbones]

With everything that FFR has going at this time, I don't see a MkV in the future, either. But one excuse for doing one sometime (when Dave doesn't have anything else to do) would be a new version roadster with a flip front end. That would be sooooo sweet. I'm sure FFR would come up with a couple of other feature that would make someone say, "I've got to have one of those". If it had no paint panels, that would just be too good to be true. WEK

[cobranut]

I'm under the impression the Mark IV was it for major modications. He does have a 289 body but on hold until a later date. The 818 is on their plate now.

[Chris Canning]

I believe Dave Smith said MKIV is the last.

+ 2 but?.......wasnt there a lunch or a dinner at Sema last year with Dave where this question came up??

[Avalanche325]

I think they will just keep up with Mustang power plants. Flip fronts, etc would not have enough sales to bother with.

[Joe Scott]

Hey Guys, the MKIV in the tech room is one that we are building and videotaping while we build it. some videos of it are up on youtube already. we are currently not redesigning the roadster since we have the 818 to work on.
Joe @FFR TECH

[agepag]

Great videos! Can't wait to see the front suspension one next.

[wesmantoothAZ]

That's good to hear. I agree, the videos are great and as someone close to purchasing an MKIV, these are helping me understand what I need to prepare for with this being my first build! Keep them coming!

[Joe Scott]

we are trying to bump them out as fast as possible but their is only so many minutes in the morning before the phones start a hollaring. I expect we are going to work on the front suspension tomorrow. plus we have Moochfest to get ready for...

Joe @FFRTECH

[skullandbones]

I have recently met some other Cobra guys some FFRs are in the mix. But I have only seen one MKIII besides mine and the rest have been MKIs. I have to tell you, they look pretty good! If you decided to get the MKIV and the worst case scenario happened as you mentioned above, it wouldn't be a bad thing. The MKIV has got all the mods I've done on my MKIII. You would get the butt mod and rolled edges and just a really nice finished body (haven't seen one in person but looks so much better in pics). You couldn't go wrong. It makes for an interesting discussion but in the long run you are getting a lot of built in value most of us had to work for in (sweat equity = mods). Personally, I would trade the time I spent on the extra work for the improved product and use the time and energy on other tweeks. You're pretty lucky! WEK.

[Avalanche325]

I waited for a lot of years due to job and living overseas. I have been on this forum for a long time and have seen changes and improvements. The body on the MKIV is really a major one. The rump and wheel arches look so good. There are also a huge amount of previous mods that are built right in. I drove a MKI and the footboxes were tiny. I have big feet and it really concerned me. My MKIV footboxes are perfect.

If you are thinking of a roadster, the MKIV is a sweet deal.

[wesmantoothAZ]

Gosh, I feel guilty that I'm riding the coattails of everyone who's provided the feedback and improvement suggestions that ultimately lead to the MKIV (to skullandbones' point...the sweat equity of the previous builders/owners). So what I guess I'm saying is Thanks!

[CHOTIS BILL]

I think making a video using the same car all the way through is a great idea. Along the same line I think it would be great idea to update the Type 65 manual using the same car in all the pictures. I don’t know about the other manuals but going through the Type 65 manual is very frustrating. A lot of the pictures are not even of the coupe or parts available for the coupe. On page 309 is says “Re-Install the hood and latches” And shows a picture of the roadster hood. There are no instructions for mounting a Type 65 seat but there are instructions for mounting the roadster seat which isn’t an option for the coupe but is more popular because more roadsters are sold. On page 245 and 246 there are instructions and a close up view if the nose locator but no view of exactly where it mounts. There are some sections of the manual go into great detail and has very good pictures and other sections are glossed over or omitted altogether. I think the kit is really great and with a little work on the manual the total building experience would be improve enormously.

Bill Lomenick

[AJ Roadster NJ]

In the MKIV introduction video, Dave said that the new one (current MKIV) was "the last bite from the apple."

[trublue]

"MARK 4.1"? Just wondering.

[2FAST4U]

There isn't a need to make any more changes. The latest body was splashed from an original. The chassis and suspension are already nearly perfect. Anything more would cost more than would be returned on additional sales, if any.

There is effort underway to make a 289 model. But it's on hold until the 818 project is up and running smoothly.

Tilting front ends would require substantial changes to their chassis tooling. Yet would not make much back in sales. Very few people would opt for that.

[Mark Reynolds]

Guys, I have a model T service manual. The author says the car is almost a perfect machine that is unlikely ever to be improved upon.

"slap in the back of the head" Of course there could be a MkV! The roadster is still FFR's best selling kit - my guess is by far. I would think after the 818 should come a 33 Hot Rod Mk2 - but what do I know - I have a 2 person company. Dave Smith's is well, a government limited 49 people. In my opinon, someday there will be a MkV but that is no reason not to get a Mk4 or buy a completed Mk2,3,3.1 for cents on the dollar and tweak away.

[KC Wildcat]

^^^^^^^ yea, what he said

[David]

Guys, I have a model T service manual. The author says the car is almost a perfect machine that is unlikely ever to be improved upon.

I love that quote Mark! Speaks volumes about how something can always be improved. Thanks for sharing... With that said, as others and you have stated, there is no reason not to buy the Mk4. Its miles ahead of the first gen cars... Even then, I would have purchased my Mk1 #46 again over 17 years ago in a heartbeat. The guys just getting in now don't know how nice of car they are looking at compared to the first offerings... which were ground breaking in their own right.

Just the friendships alone Ive made are worth 10x the price of the car.

David

[Movieman]

Just a thought: Never put off what you want to do. Life is a short journey and the older you get the faster it goes.
I've only had two things that in reflection I should have done but didn't and one of those was not buying a real 65 AC Cobra for $12,200.00 back in 1978.
It was the 289/340HP version with dual quads, body mint, never hit or raced with 6000 orginal miles and because of the ignorance of a banker who didn't understand what it was I didn't get the car.
I should have pushed and gone over his head but I was 26 and still naive about the banking business.
Follow your heart as long as your wallet can handle what you want to do because as the old saying goes" There's no time like the present"...

[Phoenix]

I've been working on my first build recently and so far I've come across two simple frame changes that would really make a difference for us builders that I don't think weaken the structure at all nor would they cost Factory Five anything more to do it.

1. Move the 4" cross-member tube connecting the 4" rail tubes together, forward. There is no reason the tube going between the frame rails can't be moved forward. Just two inches would save all of us with supercharger pulleys on the crank from having to notch and strengthen that tube in order for the pulley to fit. The best place for that tube would actually be right between the rear most LCA mounts. This doesn't increase the build cost or time for Factory Five to do, yet saves builders time and money. Moving that tube would also allow builders to change where they want the motor to sit if they wanted to move it forward slightly. This would allow us taller folk to have a deeper footbox. 1" would make a world of difference for comfort when you're over 6' tall and have long legs. Just think, that simple change which wouldn't cost any extra to do could increase the buying market of all the people who'd love to have this car but are too tall to fit in it. I'm borderline at 6' 2" from it being too uncomfortable to fit in.

2. Why exactly does the transmission A-frame need to be so long? If the arms reaching toward the front mounted to the rails 12" further to the rear of the kit from where they currently are they would completely clear the pan of an automatic transmission without us builders needing to modify it (the angle of the arms would change putting it further back and away from the pan), and it'd continue to work for the manual transmissions. This would shorten the length of those arms but slightly increase the area of the steel mounting plate. Cost would be a wash I'd guess for material, and there's no added cost for the welding since none of that really changes.

Better yet, make the mount square and instead of arms reaching forward just have a bar perpendicular between the frame rails. With that 1/8" plate steel you'd just need it welded to one bar long enough to reach between the rails and it'd be quicker, easier, and cheaper to manufacture. Strength would be more than enough to support the transmission still and it would clear all transmissions, manual or automatic.


Hope you guys at Factory Five at least take a glance at these. Maybe put them into a Mk 4.1 build. Nothing too spectacular of a change, but they really would help. Even as it is, thanks for making such a great car. I'm enjoying the build and despite not even being done am already dreaming of changes/mods to do over the next couple winters and bigger changes I'd like to make on a future build if I ever get the opportunity to do it again.

[Avalanche325]

Why exactly does the transmission A-frame need to be so long?

To keep people from sinning by putting in an automatic.

[Phoenix]

It's what my hotrod T-bird donor had in it. Race built full manual valvebody 4R70W by Artcarr able to handle 700hp. And it was rebuilt just over a year ago, so I couldn't bring myself to sell it off after just getting it fixed. So into the Roadster it goes. But as long as I'm using an Automatic I'm going to have fun and put a paddle shift on it. Maybe when I finally kill the transmission again I'll swap in a Manual... doubtful though. Transbrakes are fun and my big size 14 feet will enjoy the room in the foot box too much without a clutch pedal in there.

[mikiec]

Hey, Westman. Where in Phoenix are you? The Arizona Cobras are having their annual picnic at Rattlesnake cove, Bartlett lake on April 13th. 10:30am til ? Come join us.

[mikiec]

Hey, Westman. Where in Phoenix are you? The Arizona Cobras are having their annual picnic at Rattlesnake cove, Bartlett lake on April 13th. 10:30am til ? Come join us.

Also, take Gordon up on his offer.

Mike