Printable View
Hi Pat,
Did you use the 6-5/16" horizontal dimension to locate the heater shown on the template? I'm curious because it looks like there's some room to move it towards the windshield wiper motor a little bit unless there's some interference on the back side with the dash tubing. I'm using the FF forward just like you. Where did you get the straight tube adapters? I don't see them mentioned in the FFR heater instructions.
Hi Jen,
I didn't use the dimension provided because I had read that the template was inaccurate relative to the tube locations, so I made a new template from scratch, copying the mounting flange, screw locations, and core opening, which were all correct for my heater. Tube holes were wrong on the template, so I relocated them accordingly. I then sketched the shape of the motor end on to the template so I could eyeball wiper location and how far I could push things towards the PS.
Attachment 223752
Send me message if you'd like a copy of my template. It might save you some time from starting from scratch.
I taped the template in place, then held the wiper motor in place, looking at future access to pull it if needed, and assessing the location and arc of the drive cable. I moved the template a couple of times and ended up at 4 3/4" from the edge of the firewall. There's a gap of about 1/4" between the fan motor and the wiper assembly. I also kept the edge of tube holes about 1/4" above the horizontal part of the firewall forward to allow clearance for the rubber tube grommets. During this exercise I also marked the mounting hole locations for the wiper.
The straight tube adapters came from Vintage Air. They also sell 5/8 hoses with a molded elbow which allow you to do you connections to the water pump and manifold without using an elbow and then a hose coupling to the 5/8 hose. That eliminates two joints. Turns out I had previously found that hose in the Gates catalog and bought it from the local O'Reilly Auto parts. I'll be installing the hoses soon and will post those details.
Hope this long-winded reply is helpful.
Pat
Yeah, that's a pretty hefty cable and like you, I'm going lighter. Initially I thought they wanted it because the FFR standard is rear mount battery so they wanted a larger cable due to length. But the flier that called that out was a Blueprint/Holley document and didn't seem to be FFR specific, so unsure what's behind that recommendation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman
Upper Radiator Hose
Installed BOIG tube with filler neck. Really like the look of it, but it sure is pricey. Also like the look of the Gates Power Grip hose clamps. Connected the overflow tank as well.
Attachment 223781
Are they still selling these? Mine was defective at the filler neck.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Tubular Automotive now manufacturers and sells the BOIG products.Quote:
Originally Posted by cv2065
Yes, it's been that way for a bit. They only list the lower tube on their site and have removed the upper, so don't think they are producing anymore. Thought you might have bought it recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Bought it roughly mid-December. Called, asked about the tube with filler neck. He said he had 10 coming in. Sent a check and it arrived a couple weeks later.
Ok cool. Good to know. Maybe they will swap this one out.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Transmission Fill Plug Challenges
Had a half hour of free time and decided I'd quickly pull the fill plug on the transmission and get the oil in. Ah, not so quick! Couldn't get the 3/8 ratchet head even close to fitting in there due to interference with the e-brake mounting bracket bolt. Dug around in my old tools and even a 50 year old Craftsman with a pretty small head wouldn't fit. Tried a universal and ended up close to 90 degrees and couldn't get it to turn. Removed carriage bolt from mounting bracket and rotated it out of the way and the smaller Craftsman ratchet just fit. Removed plug, added 3 quarts, but still no overflow. Calls for 2.7 quarts. Confirmed that the car is level. I'll just leave it at 3. Order two new plugs. One with an allen head socket and one with a hex head. Will see which one I like fit-wise and go with that instead of putting the old one back in. If I do go with the socket head I'll need to cut the short end of an allen wrench to get in there. Might also try a regular square head brass pipe plug. That might prove to be the most accessible.
I know I could have filled it from the top but I wanted to see the overflow. Turns out I didn't see it anyway!
You can see in the photos below, that the rachet fits only with the bolt and bracket out of the way.
Attachment 223967
Attachment 223968
An interesting observation on this is if I just reinstall the original plug and put the e-brake back together, once the cockpit is finished and carpeted, I'd need to make up a tool to pull the plug (1/2" piece of 3/8 square stock tack welded to a length of bar stock). But, this exercise also shows that future access to the nut on the top of the ebrake bracket carriage bolt would have to be through the side or top of the tunnel. It's simply not accessible from below. Fortunately, that's pretty unlikely.
The easy button here would be to drain it from the bottom and fill at the shifter. You can pull the cover off the mid shift and fill from there or slowly from the rear most shift location. This is only if you have access by removing the tunnel or at the very least the shift boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Yep, but as noted, I wanted to see the overflow... which I never saw anyway. I even contemplated doing that after not being able to access the plug, but decided to fix it now, since I'll be draining the ATF and replacing it with Syncro at 500mi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzboy54
Update
Tried the Allstar aluminum hex head plug first because it was a well-made part, but the head was really large and interfered with the frame mount for the ebrake. Next, I tried the standard square head brass pipe plug. Probably ok but might hit the reassembled ebrake bracket bolt when trying to back it out. Ended up going with the hex socket head plug. Tightened it with the long end of a 3/8 allen wrench from the cockpit (bracket and bolt still disassembled), but wrench won't go on from below without shortening the short side of the wrench. Ordered a cheap 3/8 allen wrench from Amazon and will cut off part of the short end and put it in the toolbox drawer with others, but labeled for this use.
My Electrical Drug Habit
So I've come to the conclusion that getting into the electrical must be like a prescription drug habit. Haven't personally been down the drug path but the electrical work on the car seems a lot like what you hear about the drug thing. First you get into it because you really have no choice; you have to do some to get through the pain. Then as you get into it and it works, you decide it's not so bad and you keep going with it. And then you go a little further, and then further, and suddenly you step back and take a look at your situation. It's clear that it has gotten out of hand...
> Remove rear harness from car after installing it when the manual said to. Then remove all loom on the bench and make numerous changes.
> Dig into the EFI wiring and remove that from the loom to make changes there as well.
> front harness - same, but decide to not pull it out just to remove that one pesky thermo switch wire
> sending harness - many habit satisfying opportunities here, still enjoying
> main harness - loom removed and rat's nest heaven
> dash harness when using the Vintage Gauges - the ultimate high
> RF fuel pump relay - remove fuse block just to get a good look at the block's bus arrangement and other potential changes to use the relay for something else... even though I don't need it.
> tear out inertia switch and move it to the PS to tie it into the small blue ground wire on the Sniper2 fuel pump relay
There's more, but I'll leave it at that. Obviously, all of the connections you see in the photos below are temporary (including the inertia switch taped to the frame). Once everything tests out with first start I'll clean things up and document all changes here and in the build record that stays with the car. Keeping notes as I go.
Attachment 224016
Attachment 224017
Front Harness Installed
Front harness was mostly in place when I discovered that I didn't need the thermo switch wire. Decided against removing it just to take out that one wire. So, I sealed the end with heat shrink and tucked it into the loom. Fastened the rest of the harness along the upper tube, down the front, and across the bottom of the radiator. Made up the jumpers and connected the horns. Fan connection made with a Weather Pack.
I'd like to wrap up the harness side of the Weather Packs for the lights but with the body off I'd be guessing on the length for the pigtail. Can anyone provide a length? I'll be using the standard kit supplied headlights. Thanks.
Attachment 224086
I think it is time for you to put the body on before finalizing wire routing/terminations. Then you can see where the wires will run so not to interfere with oil cooler opening for example. I had my body on and off several times during this period. Using the straps from the ceiling method you alone, can take the body on and off in just 5 minutes. If weather was better I would concentrate on getting to go kart stage but maybe best to get basic body sorted now.
I added weatherpaks to the bare wires of the harness for each corner of the car, for the headlights, park lights and taillights. I didn't shorten the harness...juat left it as-is. Once the body was on, I realized I had plenty of length, and could've shortened them a few inches. However, the extra length wasn't an issue, and I just coiled it up and zip tied it behind each light. Easy peasie.
Greg
Also, for the headlight buckets, I drilled a 1.5" hole in them, and installed a split grommet, so I could pass the weatherpak connector through it.
Greg
Yeah, been thinking about that, but not there quite yet. I'm focused on getting to first start. Just starting on dash wiring. Also, I don't have any of the cockpit rear or trunk sheet metal in place. I was thinking that I'd want that sheetmetal and the dash in place for first time putting the body on. Does that make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterman
Thanks Greg. I haven't even looked at the headlight install yet, but will keep that in mind when I get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbranham
Coolant Senders
Limited on ports for coolant temp on the Blueprint 347. I removed the brass pipe plug that's on the DS of the manifold behind the distributor and moved the sensor for the EFI that Blueprint installed on the PS of the distributor, to the DS port. Installed a 1/2" NPT x 5/8" hose adapter in the PS port for the heater connection. Installed the sender for the dash gauge in the thermostat housing. All three pipe threads installed with high temp pipe dope, no teflon tape.
I know the location for that dash sender is less than ideal. I considered a tee at the hose adapter location and decided that was less than ideal as well because the sensor will be out of the coolant flow path whenever the heater valve is closed. Without flow that sensor will not provide reliable temperature readings. At least in the current location, once the t-stat opens readings will be reliable. I'll also have the EFI screen available for a while and will quickly get a feel for when the dash gauge should be registering.
Attachment 224381
Attachment 224383
Attachment 224390
Top Mounting Holes for the Heater
I posted previously about getting larger screws for mounting the fan side of the heater through the firewall and into the core side. Core side is just thin plastic and a couple of the screws were stripped out of the box. Larger screws worked ok, but I still didn't love it. Then I stumbled across a post where a forum member added a strip of sheet metal behind the plastic. Can't remember who posted that by kudos to whoever did. I had a strip of 040 hanging around from when I cut something else from the original unused firewall. It was a little off-straight on one side but fit in there nicely and is completely hidden. I marked the hole locations, drilled holes for some small temporary sheet metal screws, applied some black RTV, and screwed and clamped it in place. Once the RTV is dry I'll remove the screws and use them again to mount it in place temporarily without the fan. I'll make the hose connections and leave the fan off so I can leak check my solder joints (post 198) during first start.
Attachment 224467
Attachment 224468
Primary Power Wiring
All primary power wiring is in place, some temporary, some final.
> Battery neg to frame. Chose a flat surface at the upper x-brace gusset vs securing to the round tube. Drilled and tapped for 3/8 bolt. 4ga marine cable with Fusion lug at battery and 4 ga x 3/8 fusion lug at frame end. Don't normally use lock washers but did use one on the 3/8 frame connection. Will likely bite into tinned copper connector since it's pretty soft.
Attachment 224540
> 4 ga marine cable from battery negative to starter mount. 4ga x 5/16 hydraulic crimp connectors on each end. This cable was routed along the inside of the 4" frame tube and fastened in place with cable clamps. Space was left above it to route the positive cable along the same path.
> 4 ga marine cable from battery positive to starter. Fusion lug at battery and 4 x 5/16 hyd crimp connector at starter. This wire was routed along the top of the negative cable and secured in place with wire ties.
Attachment 224541
Attachment 224542
> Braided ground strap from motor mount to frame flat surface.
Attachment 224543
> Wasn't planning on a battery(+) bus but when I added the 3 harness ring terminals to the starter stud, along with the battery feed, the nut wasn't fully threaded, which didn't work for me personally. Mounted a 4 post bus on the underside of the firewall forward sheet metal overhang, above the bell housing. Ran a 4ga marine cable from the starter to the bus, 4ga x 5/16 hyd crimp connector at the starter and bus. Bus studs are 1/4". Didn't have 4 ga x 1/4 tinned connectors but ordered some and will replace the 5/16 ones for final wiring. Connected IGN battery feed and fuse block ACC battery feed to the bus. Both have 5/16 ring terminals which will be replaced with 1/4" for final wiring.
Attachment 224544
Other stuff:
> Alternator out connected direct to battery (+). Brown unused wire in the alternator loom removed from harness.
> Blue starter solenoid wire connected temporarily. It just barely reaches the stud with no slack for decent routing and securing. Wire will be cut behind the dash and a new longer wire will be spliced in and reconnected at the starter.
> Replaced 1 1/4" battery lug bolts with 1 1/2" to allow for a little extra length for other direct connections to battery lugs.
> Thought a lot about a disconnect switch. Wouldn't do it for the security thing but thinking it may be handy during the rest of the electrical work. Decided to leave it out for now and if I find that I'm disconnecting the battery all the time, it's an easy add.
Heater Hoses Finally In Place
After adding the reinforcing to the heater core plastic mount holes, I reinstalled the core side of the heater with a couple of temporary screws. Left the hose off the manifold connection until coolant came out, then hooked up the hoses and finished filling the system with coolant. I found a Gates hose that has an elbow at the end. Using it instead of an elbow with a coupling to the hose eliminates four joints. Vintage Air also sells a hose that looks like it may be the same as Gates one I found. I left the fan side off the heater for now for leak checking during first start.
Attachment 224649
Attachment 224650
Attachment 224651
Attachment 224652
Nice detailed photos. I also like your heater solution.
I'm in need of your expertise with this. I'm building a 289 FIA and the heater supposedly butts up against the speedometer on the passenger side. FF suggested moving the heater slightly toward the driver side. I'm looking to install a 302 dressed as a 289. Do you think the core fittings will be too close to the valve covers or air cleaner? Maybe since I'm going to have to move the heater over, can I raise it up a little higher on the firewall? Just worried the duct might be too tight going over the top of the box for the defroster vent.
Any suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks! James
Hey James. Not sure that I'm the right source for specifics so maybe someone who has built an FIA will weigh-in. But, I will offer a few thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by tundra2050
> I don't think you have to be concerned about the valve covers or air cleaner. My interference was caused by the firewall forward. With your focus on period correct I assume you won't be using that. Many have installed the heater with the kit supplied firewall and a 302 based engine and the tube elbows clear the valve cover. And if your air cleaner is large and extends further out than the valve covers I believe the tubes will be below it.
> When I first posted about the interference I had, someone pointed out that I had installed the heater before I should have (presumably meaning before the engine). I did that because I wanted to cut the hole with the firewall out of the car. In retrospect it wouldn't have changed a thing. I couldn't have moved the heater any further toward the PS anyway because of the wiper motor.
> I don't know if your FIA will have wipers but that will be a watch-out with moving the heater up and over. You'll need to avoid interference with the wiper gearboxes.
> Relative to hoses over the top of the box I haven't gotten to that point in my build but it seems to me that with the box more toward the center of the car, you wouldn't need to cross the box.
> I think your best bet might be to do the firewall and frame drilling now and put a few rivets in it. Once the engine is in you can position your heater and check out clearances on both sides of the firewall. You can then remove the firewall to cut the hole. Even if you have routed some wiring through the firewall it's easily pulled out. Or cut your heater hole in place with a jigsaw.
Hope this is helpful,
Pat
Pat, that's very helpful. Stupid me, I went back through your thread and realized you had the firewall forward. I do plan on adding wipers and will keep placement in mind. Seems like if I only have to move the heater slightly away from where the wiper motor will go and at the same height in the instructions, I should be fine. Thanks again for the insight!
Remflex Gasket Trimming
While test fitting the Remflex gaskets I discovered I couldn't get them in place over the spark plugs when using header studs in all holes. Decided to do a full-on check of gaskets, stud/nuts, and spark plugs. Turns out the gaskets overlap the sparkplug holes preventing access for a sparkplug socket. Spoke with Remflex and confirmed that I had the right gasket and discussed trimming. They indicated there was no issue with trimming in the areas near the bolt holes (around the ports is more sensitive to how much material is removed). The gaskets have a stainless steel wire mesh layer. Working slowly with a die grinder and periodically checking the fit, material was removed at each of the spark plug holes. Once complete, both headers were installed using studs. At two locations on each side the stud nuts were not accessible with a socket. When a universal was added I could get access but the universal would scratch the header during rotation. Two studs on each side will be replaced with hex head header bolts. Also, when the spark plugs were removed, gaps were checked. All were wrong (engine was dyno'd by Blueprint). Six were 0.032, two were 0.030. All were re-gapped to 0.035 spec for NGK.
Gasket Overlap On Spark Plug Hole
Attachment 224834
Mesh Layer In Gasket
Attachment 224835
Trimmed Gaskets ( 2 of 4 locations on each)
Attachment 224836
Hi Pat,Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Nice progress on your build. I'm curious about the heater placement with the firewall forward on the cockpit side. The 3/4" dash hoop support on the DS defroster outlet is a common interference problem with routing the flex hose. Some builders cut out the tube and others leave it in by routing around it. Did the forward movement of 1-1/2" with the heater mounting alleviate the interference any better? I didn't want to start a discussion about the benefits of defrosters on an open air roadster. I know the PS defroster outlet is even worse for flex hose routing.
Hi Jen,
I haven't really gotten into what you're asking about yet. Been focused on getting to first start so I can button up a bunch of things that I'm leaving open for that. I'll take a look at the heater ports and that center brace tomorrow and update this post. I'll include a couple of better photos as well.
Pat
Update: Sorry for the delay Jen. Wasn't able to get down to the shop yesterday. Below are three photos of the heater. I will likely try to avoid cutting out the center brace. All 4 outlets are on the downstream side of the coil so any can be used to supply any outlet. I'll likely focus on the heat vents with smaller ducts to the defrosters. HVAC design engineer early in my career so I'm comfortable stating that any opening can go to any vent and small changes in duct sizes will not make a material impact on airflow. I haven't really thought through duct routing yet but will post detail when I do. LMK if you want any photos from different angles.
Attachment 224881
Attachment 224882
Attachment 224883
Clutch Master Cylinder and Hose
Bench bled the clutch master cylinder and connected the FFR supplied 4AN braided stainless hose using a 3AN to 4AN adapter at the Tilton series 75 outlet. Connection at the TOB is 4AN. Started out trying a gravity bleed but pretty slow so switched to pressure bleed using the same bleeder used for the brakes. Put the pressure cap on the reservoir, pumped the tank to around 12 psi. Three rounds and no more air bubbles. Pedal is firm and rear wheels can be turned when transmission is in gear and pedal depressed.
This is the bleeder that I used.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095JYYQ2P...n_title_3&th=1
First Leak
Blueprint's start process includes reestablishing oil pump prime (oil drained after dyno). Hooked up a temporary gauge and went through the routine of cranking the starter with ignition and fuel isolated. Pressure established in seconds. Afterward I noticed a puddle of oil under the power steering pump. Tracing the source to the outlet on the pump I felt a piece of an o-ring sticking out of the pump fitting. Disassembled fitting. Looked like fitting was assembled at the factory with the o-ring dry and when tightening it bound and moved out of position. Replaced with a new lubed one, repeated crank, all seems to be ok. O-ring seemed to be an odd size. I have a big selection of -rings but the cross section diameter on this one was small for the OD. Ended up going one size smaller to get the same cross section diameter. It goes into a groove against a dowdy washer so I think the cross section is the most important. Will keep an eye on it. Might ask Blueprint to send me an o-ring, just in case.
Good news is easy fix and not on one of the fittings I installed!
Attachment 224962
Attachment 224963
Gas-N Headers and Sidepipes Installed
Headers and sidepipes installed. Pretty uneventful. I did decide to switch from the ARP studs to bolts because the washers that ARP supplies and wants used with their studs protruded just far enough over the edge of the header flange near the spark plug locations, that I couldn't get the spark plug socket past them. I had already changed a couple on each side from studs to bolts because the studs were too long near the header tube curve, preventing socket access on the 12 point nut. So, in the end I switched all to bolts. It was handy though to use a couple of studs to hold the gasket initially.
Ceramic coated header
Attachment 225304
Temporary sidepipe for first start
Attachment 225307
Like others I mounted the pipes on opposite sides so the mounting bracket was facing up for temporary use. The Gas-N rubber bushing, when disassembled, was a perfect fit into the rectangular slot in the frame hinge mount, and the arm was the perfect length for this temporary setup!
Attachment 225308
Getting close to first start!
My ARP header studs had 12 point flanged nuts and no washers. They all cleared fine except for two on each side which were too close to the pipe.
It did seem a little odd that they were flanged nuts and included washers but I did some web searches and everything I could find said if the hardware comes with washers, use them. Probably would have been fine without but it's switched over to the bolts now, so I'll leave it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Bray
Lokar Cable and Bracket
Finished installing the Lokar throttle cable and billet bracket. It looks good and is so much smoother than the FFR cable. I went a foot longer on the cable to allow for smooth sweeping bends. The setup also has great adjustment features. In a matter of minutes I was able to adjust it for the complete travel of the throttle to match the pedal travel to its stop. Ignore the yellow and orange ugly wires. Temporary runs for first start.
I forgot to take a photo of the cable routing but will add that here tomorrow to show the smooth bends.
Attachment 225330
If you secure that cable somewhere around the midpoint it will be even better. Mine is attached to the valve cover, you can see it in this picture.
Attachment 225342
For you MK5 guys, just for information purposes on radiator tubing. I just got the upper from Tubular for on my MK5, BP 347". It is same as MK 4, but they make it fit with curved rubber end hose attachments. I also made a lower prototype for them and they will soon be out with it for the MK5.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Ralph
Adding a photo showing the throttle cable routing and clamps.
Attachment 225389
Looked at mine after seeing your PS leak post. Mine looks like it has the plastic washer used, similar to that on the rack outlets. Not sure if they have two types of gaskets.Quote:
Originally Posted by PMD24
Ralph