Milk Carton Guy Looking for Advice

[mug23]

i tried to find where it was suggested how much they'll be but came up short... any idea how much those are? i really want them...

Is this the kit you are looking for? This is the kit I have for my STI right now but I still have install it yet.

http://www.kstech.biz/servlet/the-16/Weldless-TGV-Delete-Kit/Detail

[Nuul]

I've not seen the price yet. Co$worth TGV deletes that looks similar in material are $570 (http://thmotorsports.com/i-349765.aspx) so I'd think it'd be well under that.

[posthaste]

As a small child, prone to wimsy and imagination....I am most certain I dreamed of the track car and not the road friendly versions of cars.
Just saying;)

Yes, I am aware that all versions will be ***-kickingly awesome.

[apexanimal]

I've not seen the price yet. Co$worth TGV deletes that looks similar in material are $570 (http://thmotorsports.com/i-349765.aspx) so I'd think it'd be well under that.

it's either diy tumbler delete w/ phoenolic spacers, or the tic composit tgv's for me... just depends on price i think... if in the low 300's i think i'd be in...

[SkiRideDrive]

it's either diy tumbler delete w/ phoenolic spacers, or the tic composit tgv's for me... just depends on price i think... if in the low 300's i think i'd be in...

Aren't TGV deletes just flat plates to cover up a pathway normally used for emissions purposes? I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject, but how could plates cost hundreds of dollars?

[305mouse]

It's a whole new housing, without the butterfly assembly. I know Grimmspeed made TGV deletes, but they're made of plastic, like the new intake manifolds. Nice thing about the plastic though is it won't absorb and transfer heat like the oem one will. No need for a phoenolic spacer if you use that.

[Mechie3]

To take it further, TGV's are part of the intake manifold with 2 paths. One path is closed by a butterfly during cold starts. When it's warm the butterflies open up allowing both passages to flow. The butterfly, the shaft the butterflies are mounted to, and the metal divider are all in the way of the flow. A delete has plates (or screws, welded, etc) to block off the hole for the shaft after the shaft, butterflies, and metal divider are all removed.

http://images.turbomagazine.com/images/0702_turp_15z+project_subaru_sti+compressor_housin g.jpg

[apexanimal]

correct, and tic's are composite so there will be VERY little heat transfer from the head to the intake mani thus eliminating the need for phenolic spacers...

[Nuul]

And it's good for ~12HP so it's definitely worth doing. The DIY instructions (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1741045) aren't too bad either if you don't want to spend any money on it.

[SkiRideDrive]

After looking at the DIY thread, it seems like you can get a majority of the gain with minimal effort by just pulling the butterfly plates. Thoughts?

[mug23]

correct, and tic's are composite so there will be VERY little heat transfer from the head to the intake mani thus eliminating the need for phenolic spacers...

Do you have a link to the TIC's TGV's? Are you saying that the entire TGV housing is made of composite material? Wow, I know the stock ones are metal of course but the entire one is made of composite material would be awesome and less weight too.

[mug23]

After looking at the DIY thread, it seems like you can get a majority of the gain with minimal effort by just pulling the butterfly plates. Thoughts?

You need to take the plates out and do some porting to enlarge the hole a bit. That way you can the max air flow through the TGV's before entering the heads. You can get enlarge gasket to match the enlarge ported hole of the TGV from Grimmspeed.

[Nuul]

Do you have a link to the TIC's TGV's? Are you saying that the entire TGV housing is made of composite material? Wow, I know the stock ones are metal of course but the entire one is made of composite material would be awesome and less weight too.

The pre-production samples are out for review with a few engine builders. There's a good picture of them in this thread (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2366553).

[Exidous]

With regards to the version to be displayed at SEMA: I must say that in my opinion the track car will grab more attention but the street car will sell better. So that's a toss up Dave will have to make. As far as the images released, I cannot say my hair is anywhere close to on fire. I like it but certainly not enough to buy. :-( There have been a couple mods the guys on the boards have made that certainly helped but I had really hoped that the design had gone in a direction or Rondey's car. I must hold too many of my comments until the car is actually release but as of right now I am not a buyer. I'd rather save a lot longer and spend three times as much and build a GTM how I see fit. Of course I'd prefer to only spend 15-20K but with the current body, it will not happen. Sorry to sound harsh but I only want FFR to succeed and I do not think the current body is !!!!! enough.

Patrick

[pondo]

Dave,

I joined the forums just now to provide some positive feedback to FFR's efforts and to give an opinion from one of your target audiences. I'm 29 years old, chemical engineer by profession, with mechanical know-how, long time car buff but never built a car from scratch. I've wanted to build a GTM since I first read about it years ago but the barriers of entry were too great (cost). A "trackable" street 818 would be the perfect combination of price, performance, and FUN. I'm sure many of us will need to convince the wives as well and an "all season" car would smooth over much easier. Another deciding factor is the drive-train. I spent 5 years of college beating a 2002 WRX day in and day out to death without a single issue in 100k miles...and on the same clutch! After seeing the aggressive look of the car, the bullet-proof Subaru drivetrain and the bottom line ~$15k build price I'm sold.

Cheers!

Edit: For SEMA bring a track prepped street car. AKA track car with some carpet and decent finishing - multipurpose is the winner. Many people would love a race car they can drive to work!

[Dave Smith]

Guys. I've decided to shoot for an intro at SEMA of both a street car AND the 818R version. I figured that SEMA deserves both versions yet the body and molding changes are HUGE challeneges in the timeframe allotted. I am driving the crew VERY hard here so IF I disappear under strange circumstances it will most likely be Jesper and Jim stuffing me into a trunk on the way to some abandoned rock quarry... "Both versions for SEMA? they asked...

[shim2]

Guys. I've decided to shoot for an intro at SEMA of both a street car AND the 818R version. I figured that SEMA deserves both versions yet the body and molding changes are HUGE challeneges in the timeframe allotted. I am driving the crew VERY hard here so IF I disappear under strange circumstances it will most likely be Jesper and Jim stuffing me into a trunk on the way to some abandoned rock quarry... "Both versions for SEMA? they asked...

Great decision Dave. I'm sure it will turn out the best. With that said, you're building another go kart correct?

[Zodiac]

nice I can't wait. Hmmm now I wonder how buying the kit will be. Buy a 818 but get the 818r stylling or vice versa? Will both be available at time of release? Guess time will tell

[Nuul]

I've decided to shoot for an intro at SEMA of both a street car AND the 818R version.

I'm really glad you decided to do this.

[RM1SepEx]

Been the answer for me from the beginning

[Etos]

Personally would of preferred a modified street version taking Vmans changes. I don't think Jim's design is a bad one, just not a great one. Vman was able to take it and make it much much better, much closer to HOF status. Please take Vmans changes and bring them to Jim's design!

[Doutie]

Dave, let me tell you a little storey. Right after Boeing built the first 707, their test pilot, Tex Williams, flew it over the hydroplane races on Lake Washington in Seattle. To the amazement of the huge crowd he did a barrel row for his exit.
When a hopping mad president of Boeing asked him what he thought he was doing, Tex is quoted as saying "SELLING AIRPLANES". My point is not which version to show at SEMA, you are Factory Five Racing right.
Take it to the track and let it kick some butt, then take it to SEMA race dirty with live video on the big screen behind it!!!!!

[metalmaker12]

I do not completely agree, i think jim's design has come a long way from its gross start. His side view in my opinion is better than Vman's. I like the front and rear of Vman's, but not the side profile. Maybe its the wheels, or the overall lines, just not liking it as much as jim's. It seems Jim did use cues from other designs to change his into something good. Also we have only judged jims on one profile and it is not even completely done, We should all give it a rest and see what they come up with, I beat you it will be wicked cool looking when completed.
Also, it is "FACTORY FIVE RACING" 818R "dirty" with video please

[Doutie]

Dave, let me tell you a little storey.

Dave, let me tell you a little storey. Right after Boeing built the first 707 jetliner, their test pilot, Tex Williams, flew it over the unlimited hydroplane races on Lake Washington in Seattle. To the amazement of the huge crowd he barrow rowed the new jetliner for his exit. A hopping mad president of Boeing demanded an explaination, to which Tex is quoted as saying "SELLING AIRPLANES'. My point is not which version to take to SEMA---- you are factory Five Racing right. Take it to the track and let it kick some butt, then take it to SEMA race dirty with live video of it's performance on the big screen behind the car!!!!!!

[NicksPapaw]

DAVE SMITH!!!!!!! You have become the wizzard of OZ! Just ask and you produce. Can't wait to see the outcome. :D

[wallace18]

I look forward to seeing both. Mostly look forward to ordering one. Thanks for the update. I am working on my donor so I can be ready for production.

[Silvertop]

Guys. I've decided to shoot for an intro at SEMA of both a street car AND the 818R version. I figured that SEMA deserves both versions yet the body and molding changes are HUGE challeneges in the timeframe allotted. I am driving the crew VERY hard here so IF I disappear under strange circumstances it will most likely be Jesper and Jim stuffing me into a trunk on the way to some abandoned rock quarry... "Both versions for SEMA? they asked...

The PERFECT solution to your dilemma. Hoping you survive the trip to the rock quarry.

Can't wait for SEMA!!

[BipDBo]

Dave,
I work in a completely different field, but this advice should still apply. We try to avoid having multiple projects due at the same time, especially when given a short timeframe. When this happens, however, we don't work on the projects exactly concurrently. We make sure that at least one of the projects is done right by the due date. We will also notify the client of the other that we will shoot for the due date, but might not make it. That way, if we miss it, we only miss one due date, and can follow up with the other.

Presenting both versions at SEMA is definitely the way to go. Bringing them both in the flesh would be great, but make sure that at least one of them is built very well, worthy of close scrutiny. Don't go to SEMA with two or even one half-arsed builds. As a plan B, you could present one build in the flesh and the other printed on a large display board, either a photo or rendering. The track and road going versions will be such close cousins that I think a picture of one sitting next to a build of the other would still be an affective presentation.

[Mechie3]

Dave, Tell Jim and Jesper that if a prototype kit just happens to fall off a truck in Indianapolis I'll make sure a finished 818 shows up to SEMA. ;)

[Dave Smith]

Oz, Ha! Just pay no attention to those engineers behind the curtain... The decision is costly and yes the guys are building three pre-production cars now (race, street, plus rolling chassis). The work is progressing steadily and I am super proud of Jim and Jesper and Frank and John who are all FT on it. Jeremy L. from Solidworks is here also and has been a HUGE help. On the body side I cannot crow victory yet, but the goal of rapid design-to-manufacture (read easy and affordable to change/modify) has not been proven, but the process is well underway. We had a group of guys from Grassroots motorsports here and the reaction was exceptional. GRM will be building and documenting an early build as soon as possible. More shortly, Have a wonderful 4th and God Bless the USA!

http://www.factoryfive.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/jimjesperdave818.jpg

[flytosail]

Thanks, and Happy and Safe Fourth of July for you and your family and employees.

[Oppenheimer]

Wow, both, plus a bare rolling chassis to show off whats under the skin. Ambitious, and bold. I like the plan. Sure beats a car and a poster, which was my (and others) big idea.

[shim2]

Definitely ambitious and bold! I hope all goes well and you meet your goals! Too bad you are hiding the body until SEMA(I understand why) I'd love more pictures but I can wait. Happy 4th.

[Gary in NJ]

While your fabricators may disagree, you made a great decision.

On another note, I honestly didn't expect to see you post here so soon. It got crazy last month and I thought for sure you'd just lay low until after the body shapes were final and the kits were production ready. You have some thick skin there Dave. I look forward to someday being a customer.

In the mean time, I can't wait to see the photos from SEMA and to hear how well the designs are received.

[Dave Smith]

The car is very wide in person (which is so important to the proper aggro look and stance). I love that picture because i snapped it with my cell as Dave Riha was visiting from Arizona and it was good seeing the original crew back together again. Jim is on the right, Jesper in the background, Dave to the left.

[Kwizatz-haderah]

I remember Dave Riha! He was so helpful when I was building my mkIII. That said, I am much more excited about this project than I was the mkIII & I used to think it'd be impossible to be just as excited, let alone more excited about any other project.

[BrandonDrums]

My gut, releasing 2 versions of the same car at once will get the press going. It's a major achievement and everyone will realize that up front. The street version will have the looks, the R version will bring the heritage and together they will speak volumes more than either one could by themselves.

Yes a stripped out racecar is cool, I'd love to have something like that but I'd rather build something I can build with my kids and drop them off at school with to make them feel cool. Not only that, it would be hard to build a car that most likely will need a truck and a trailer to get where I need to go to drive it legally. I expect plenty of R versions to sell but probably about the same ratio of sales of the roadster and the Challenge car. I've never seen FFR LEAD their marketing with the challenge car...I'm sure there's a reason for that too.

Dual release, the R brings the heritage, the street version gets people dreaming of what could be.

[Oppenheimer]

The car is very wide in person (which is so important to the proper aggro look and stance).

I think the illusion that masks how wide it is comes from the passenger compartment not being as wide as the track width. With a body on it, your eye would see a car as wide as the outer edges of the tires, which looking at it now I see is indeed rather w-i-d-e.

But without a body, the eye sees the width of the rollbar and kinda stops there, which looks quite narrow.

Now if only we could see it with a body on...

[vozproto]

Yes a stripped out racecar is cool, I'd love to have something like that but I'd rather build something I can build with my kids and drop them off at school with to make them feel cool.

I have a feeling they are gonna have to ROCK/PAPER/SCISSORS to see who gets to ride along unless you're designing up a jumper seat. :P

VERY excited to hear that both models will be shown at SEMA!

[305mouse]

I never realized how low that 818 is, wow.

[flynntuna]

With the car being this low, a gull-wing targa top would be an advantage.

[shinn497]

How would that even work?

[flynntuna]

There are a couple of guys on the FFcars forum who have built tops, one from scratch, the other converted a hardtop to have gull-wing top.

[StatGSR]

he is talking about something like this....
http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/attachments/f157/107884d1231698896-cf-t-top-exige-chucks-lotus-13-1-.jpg

just makes it much easier to get in and out of the car being that it is so low.