MB750's MKIV Roadster build thread

[MB750]

It begins!

162719

It's a complete kit. I recently bought a complete 95 Mustang GT with a lot of neglect so I'm going with the complete kit so I get all new components, but I'll rebuild the engine, trans, and axle.

I've also been emailing Dan with some topical questions. At this point it looks like sometime in November it'll be done. That gives me plenty of time to get my donor parts torn apart and rebuilt.

This is gonna be a blast! I've rebuilt TONS of motorcycles from frame-off cleanups to monster motor Harleys so I'm no stranger to spinning wrenches. I'm also going to take this back a few decades with the technology. Carb will replace the FI, but the engine is getting a full cleanup by a local machine shop and I'll do a 347 kit with AFR heads. I'm also planning on putting 3.08 gears in the back because I want this to be a fun road car, not a dragster. I used to have an 88 GT with 3.73's and first was useless.

I'll definitely keep this thread going as things progress but it's gonna be slow.

[BadAsp427]

Congratulations and welcome to the craziness. You’ve come to the right place for help and support

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, MB750! I like to see builders with mech. experience join...more opportunities for lesser experienced builders (like me!) to learn from. Let the waiting begin! I thought the 12 or so weeks for my kit to complete and deliver was a long time. That's darn quick nowadays. Let the waiting begin! I'm remember the feeling, and excited for you.

[MB750]

Thanks fellas. Even though I have built quite a bit of mechanical stuff in my life this is a completely new endeavor where I also stand to learn a lot of new things as well. I've already watched many build videos and vlogs which I'm sure will help.

I'll post up some pics later today of my current teardown of the donor, and over the next few months pics and reports of the drivetrain rebuilding.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Welcome! We'll enjoy following along :)

Jeff

[MB750]

Got the engine and the trans out of the 95 today:

162874162875162876162877162878

[MB750]

162879
162880

Well there's your problem right there (and the reason I got the whole car so cheap):

162881

And if I had long enough 7/16"x14 bolts she'd be on the stand right now. Oh well, another trip to Ace is in order.

162882

[MB750]

How do I post full size pics?

[MB750]

I love finding Easter Eggs in projects as I tear them apart.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163206&d=1646054648

I was going with a 3.27 anyway.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good find! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 3.27 from the factory in a 5 speed pushrod engine SN95. More often found in automatic equipped mod motor cars. That will work well if you use the original T-5 with it’s short 3.35 first gear!

Jeff

[John Ibele]

Hey, welcome to the fun. Great to see experienced folks do a build thread, as was already mentioned. Looking forward to your updates.

[MB750]

Good find! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 3.27 from the factory in a 5 speed pushrod engine SN95. More often found in automatic equipped mod motor cars. That will work well if you use the original T-5 with it’s short 3.35 first gear!

Jeff

There's an outside chance this car had an Auto from the factory, but going from Auto to Manual is a real pain in the *** so chances are this is an OG axle. I can run the options if I dig deep enough, but I'm at the point with this car where now that I've gutted all the assets I want it gone and get started on the engine.

I might be able to run the tag off the trans and see what it comes with.

[MB750]

Current state of the engine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163388&d=1646421008

Checking the bore, just for fun. Zero on the gauge is exactly 4.000":

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163389&d=1646421008

Turned 90 degrees in the same cylinder. Little bit egg-shaped, but at 133K miles that's to be expected. At least the bore isn't too large for OEM slugs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163390&d=1646421008

[MB750]

I've got a set of Wiseco 4.030" bore forged pistons on the way that only have -7cc relief volume. In conjunction with the AFR heads I'm going with at 59cc combustion chambers I can be anywhere from 8.3:1 up around 10:1 depending on the thickness of the Cometic head gaskets I use. I'll be starting at 10:1 since this engine will only be fed 93 octane, and I'll have complete control over the timing. If I ever slap a power adder on it (boost) I'll just get thicker head gaskets and longer pushrods.

[MB750]

Current state of the block. Basically ready for the machine shop:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163605&d=1646767664

And Christmas came early!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163606&d=1646767664

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163607&d=1646767664

I've had very good luck with Wiseco across many different engine builds so I wanted to stick with them. Yes they're more expensive than Hypereutectic pistons, but the older I get the more I go with what I know works.

[MB750]

So I just learned something I'd like to share with y'all. There's two common forgings for AL pistons; 4032 and 2618. These slugs are 4032 forged aluminum. That's all well and good, but in my speed lust I was planning on boosting this engine if the power ever came up lacking. Nothing crazy, only about 7-10 psi, and I can soften the compression with thicker Cometic head gaskets, but apparently 4032 doesn't take well to being boosted (or used with N2O) on account of it being slightly more brittle than 2618. It's a great OEM replacement option since it's stronger than cast and more malleable than hypereutectic, but apparently not soft enough for even mild boost like the 2618 is.

And when I dig further Wiseco also makes 2618 forgings for the 302, but they're around $900, and that's just for the slugs. Add for rings and you're over a grand! I got this whole kit for $575, so I'll take my 4032's and run what I brung. :)

Edit: I should say, Wiseco "recommends" not using these 4032 pistons in a boosted application, but there's TONS of people on the internet doing it with no reported issues. Granted, I'm not talking about drag applications, just hot street, 500hp type stuff. I'm still going to take the ring gaps out to boosted values as well, just in case.

[MB750]

Also had some fun with the press tonight. Slid the wrist pins out of the OEM pistons and rods, then put the pistons in their appropriate location:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163633&d=1646789705

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163634&d=1646789705

And just for fun I wanted to see just how much interference there was between the wrist pin and the small end of the rod:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163635&d=1646789705

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163636&d=1646789705

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163637&d=1646789705

And also checking the Wiseco wrist pins. Same diameter as OEM:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163638&d=1646789727

[MB750]

Playing with the axle a bit. There was quite a leak coming from somewhere so I split the cover off and rested it upright to see what end the leak was coming out of:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163956&d=1647352441

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=163957&d=1647352441

From the looks of that little spot there might be a seal change in my future, but that could also be residue dripping down from all the previous leaking down the front of the differential. I'll leave it like this for a few weeks to see.

[MB750]

Got the block back today, clean as a whistle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164316&d=1647885334

4.030" bore:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164317&d=1647885334

With confirmation:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164318&d=1647885334

Also decked the block so I'll have something very close to zero for sunk pistons, which will allow me easy math to completely adjust CR with Cometic head gaskets. And new freeze plugs, cam bearings, and magnafluxed.

Special thanks to Scotty's Racing Engines up in Shady Hills, FL. Great people to work with.

[MB750]

Started playing with the engine tonight. Gapping rings seemed like a good Thursday evening task:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164476&d=1648171772

I made a ring depth tool out of some small bolts and one of the old pistons. This way the rings are set exactly the same depth all the way around:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164477&d=1648171772

There was literally zero gap at first, so I ended up starting every one of them on the ring filer

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164479&d=1648171772

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164480&d=1648171772

Repeat 16 more times, then bag em' and tag em'

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164481&d=1648171805


I also decided to play with the rods. I bought ARP rod studs and I wanted to see how hard getting the old ones out would be, so I randomly grabbed rod #5 and noticed something. It just seemed a little cockeyed, so I compared it to #1. Low and behold:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164483&d=1648171805

Knocking the studs out was easy though, and since this rod was shot I didn't care how ham-fisted I was about it.

Ugh, time to go rod shopping. ;)

[MB750]

Only 7 pics per post apparently. Here's a better shot of the rod with Peyronie's:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164484&d=1648171805

Any suggestions on replacements?

[MB750]

Gave my crank a good polishin' tonight:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164767&d=1648594760

[MB750]

No pics, just info. I mic'd the crank journal clearance with the new bearings I got from Summit and I've got .003". Ideally you want .001" of clearance for each inch of journal diameter. This means my max should be .0023". .003" is too much, so I ordered some .001" undersized bearings to get me more in the window I'm interested in. I'd like to run 5W30 in this engine and you should be at the tight end of the spec for that. Thicker oils are for fatter gaps.

[MB750]

I'll let you guess which one is the aftermarket rod:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164885&d=1648849492

And they're floating wrist pins with a brass bushing, so no more pressing the wrist pins into the rods like a neanderthal. The listing says they're rated for 1000 hp, but color me skeptical. They're at least beefier looking than the OEM rod. Big end is perfectly round too, not even off a ten-thousandth.

[WIS89]

MB-

I have enjoyed reading your build thread. I also admit that I sincerely admire you for taking on the engine rebuild yourself! I have always admired the guys that could do that work. Frankly, it scares the heck out of me! There is so much riding on such small tolerances. I just know I would make a modest mistake, or overlook one item, and would be picking up engine pieces out of the neighbor's trees!

Thanks for bringing us along for the journey, and, good luck the rest of the way! I am really looking forward to following your progress -- give it heck!!

Regards,

Steve

[MB750]

MB-

I have enjoyed reading your build thread. I also admit that I sincerely admire you for taking on the engine rebuild yourself! I have always admired the guys that could do that work. Frankly, it scares the heck out of me! There is so much riding on such small tolerances. I just know I would make a modest mistake, or overlook one item, and would be picking up engine pieces out of the neighbor's trees!

Thanks for bringing us along for the journey, and, good luck the rest of the way! I am really looking forward to following your progress -- give it heck!!

Regards,

Steve

Thank you Steve. I've built a few Harley engines before so I'm not too nervous. So far I'm just making sure all the I's are dotted and T's crossed based on my previous engine building experience. Rest assured, I'll be 100% transparent during this entire build process. This stuff is fun for me. Kinda relaxing to be honest.

[MB750]

I got the undersized bearings from Summit yesterday and got the crank in this AM. Nice .002" clearance max now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164959&d=1649012790

Now to hang the rods on the pistons. Orientation is important since there's a chamfered edge on one side of the big end of the rod that hugs up against the counterweight side of the journal:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164960&d=1649012790

The chamfered side points forward on pistons 1 thru 4 and backward on 5 thru 8

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164961&d=1649012790

Chamfer:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164962&d=1649012790

In contrast, the other side of the same rod:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164963&d=1649012790

[MB750]

Some people hate Spiro locks. If you know how to use them they're very easy to install, just a pain to remove.

First, stretch them out about 2" long. They'll spring back to about an inch:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164964&d=1649012886

Start the one end in the groove, then follow it down with a screwdriver:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164966&d=1649012886

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164967&d=1649012886

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164968&d=1649012886

Done. Make it click. Easy peasy:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164970&d=1649012911

[MB750]

Assembly lube it all up and slide the wrist pin in. I LOVE this over the press fit style...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164971&d=1649012911

Check the end

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164972&d=1649012911

Install the other Spiro Lock to finish the job:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164973&d=1649012911

And repeat seven more times...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164974&d=1649012927

[MB750]

And now the annoying news, I need undersized rod bearings as well. I did the same thing as on the mains and have .003" clearance on the rod bearings, which is more than I want. Clevite to the rescue again, just have to wait a few days for Summit to pull thru. Oh well. ;) Not like I'm in a hurry or anything.

[MB750]

Got my undersized rod bearings yesterday so now I had something to do on the engine. Checked sizing and now we've got no more than .002".

Next up, install them slugs. First, install the new bearings in the rods

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165196&d=1649442880

Then lube up all the rings, being mindful of the orientation:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165197&d=1649442880

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165198&d=1649442880

Slide the tapered ring compressor (these things are sweet!)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165199&d=1649442880

Lube up the skirts, then head over to the block

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165200&d=1649442880

Once they're on the block you really gotta press down on the ring compressor so the really narrow oil retention rings don't catch on the top of the bore. Then using a mallet made of anything other than steel, tap it down:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165201&d=1649443114

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165202&d=1649443114

[MB750]

Keep tapping but DON'T let the big end of the rod hit that polished crankshaft:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165203&d=1649443114

Lube up the journal and tap it down while guiding it on:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165204&d=1649443114

Now put the Moly paste on the threads and under the head of the rod bolts and finish the job. Torque down to 63 ft-lbs per the manufacturer:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165205&d=1649443114

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165207&d=1649443407

And repeat seven more times:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165208&d=1649443407

[MB750]

I wanted to check how much torque was eaten up in the form of rotating resistance. Only 18 ft-lbs, not bad. Newer 1mm ring packs that typically come on the latest tech pistons and many import engines have even less. But back in the muscle car days the huge ring packs ate up over 40 ft-lbs.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165209&d=1649443407

Now to find TDC and see how much the piston sticks out (or in) the bore. I asked Scotty's to take 10 thou off the deck to make the pistons flush. Let's see how well it went.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165210&d=1649443407

Testing the trusty depth gauge (that's much older than I am) on the deck was exactly 0.000"

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165211&d=1649443686

I can live with 3 TEN-thousandths.

[MB750]

Next order of business, I've got an order coming with a cam, some lifters, cam drive gear set, and a gasket kit for the timing cover and water pump. Once those are on I can wrap up the oil pan, but before that I need to weld a bung on it for a turbo oil drain just in case I ever decide to boost this thing.

Then it's time to order my AFR heads and rockers. :cool:

[nucjd19]

Only 7 pics per post apparently. Here's a better shot of the rod with Peyronie's:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164484&d=1648171805

Any suggestions on replacements?

I would be the last person to recommend a replacement but LOVE how you dropped in a little medical jargon :).. Totally agree there is a slight curve :)

[Blitzboy54]

This is fun to watch. Great job with this thread. I used the same pistons in my 306. Well, not the “same pistons” but you know what I mean.

Like you I built a few bikes soup to nuts. I chickened out on a lot of the engine assembly and I definitely regret it. Nobody is going to care about your engine as much as you. I think I will have an 818 in my future someday and will do that from the ground up.

Welcome aboard!

[MB750]

...Nobody is going to care about your engine as much as you. I think I will have an 818 in my future someday and will do that from the ground up.


That is exactly why I do much of my own work on everything. To the simplest extent, why pay some kid to change my oil when I can do it myself cheaper and have a 100% guarantee the exact oil I wanted with the exact filter was used. And I can do some other maintenance and checks during the process (air tires, check the undercarriage for issues, check air filter, etc...) I'm very passionate about mechanical systems. NOBODY will care for my stuff better than me.

Have fun with that 818. I had a 2009 WRX back a few years ago and it was a blast, especially in the snow (when I lived in Wisconsin). I may also do an 818 some day but I'll definitely do a boosted version. It'd be nice if they did an AWD/front engine version as well.

[MB750]

Sorry I didn't get any progress pics on this, but there wasn't much neat to see anyway. Just installing the cam, lifters, spider, and timing chain. I went with the B303 PLUS cam from Summit. It's just like the Ford Motorsports B-cam but with more lift.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165396&d=1649796432

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165397&d=1649796432

Once I get the heads on I'll be confirming the cam timing.

[MB750]

Sometimes I crack myself up. Building a $50,000 car but instead of spending $20 on a cheap aluminum degree wheel I made one out of a bucket lid, an extra washer, some contact cement, and a printout of a degree wheel from Google images:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165400&d=1649799235

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165401&d=1649799235

That'll work. :cool:

[MB750]

I realized I don't necessarily need the heads to adjust the cam timing. You just need to make sure the lifter doesn't stick anywhere during its sweep. Keeping that in mind:

Find TDC and set degree wheel to it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165442&d=1649879155

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165443&d=1649879155

Now move the dial indicator over to one of the lifters and reset it to zero:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165444&d=1649879155

This is the cam card that came with the cam. Important data on here, which we're going to verify right now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165445&d=1649879155

Spin the crank SLOWLY until you see the lifter go up .050" (fifty thousandths of an inch). This is where appreciable air flow starts so many cam cards base their specs off it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165446&d=1649879155

Make note of the degree wheel reading:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165447&d=1649879421

Now spin the crank around so the lifter passes its own lobe center, then back down but stopping at .050" to get the reading on the other side of the lobe:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165448&d=1649879421

[MB750]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165449&d=1649879421

Now write all that good data down somewhere you can reference and compare to the cam card (like right on the cam card)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165450&d=1649879421

Now repeat that process on the other lifter:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165451&d=1649879421

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165452&d=1649879656

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165453&d=1649879656

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165454&d=1649879656

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165455&d=1649879656

[MB750]

Back to the cam card with more data, now you can do some math too

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165456&d=1649879656

As you can see, everything is about 3 degrees advanced. This makes sense because the cam card says this cam is 3 degrees advanced.

There's a neat trick to move the torque curve around in an engine where if you advance the cam you move the powerband earlier, and consequently retard the timing makes it later (or higher up the rev range). This being a 306ci I'm not expecting stump-pulling torque, but I'd prefer as much bottom end and midrange in this engine as it can make so I'm going to advance the cam a bit more since my timing chain set allows it.

That circle mark over the keyway means this set is "straight up". Rotating it to the triangle mark indicates a 4 degree advance.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165457&d=1649879837

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165458&d=1649879837

And rechecking everything leads to this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=165459&d=1649879837

Good to go. As you can see I also confirmed my duration measurements to the cam card. This was just a double-check to make sure my math was clean.

[MB750]

The most important value in all those measurements is the intake close event and where it lands after bottom dead center. If you think about the dynamics of an IC engine (internal combustion), as the piston sweeps past BDC during the intake stroke there's a certain kinetic energy in the intake charge that keeps flowing into the cylinder even as the piston starts its path back up on the compression stroke. If the intake cam stays open long after BDC some of that charge may end up being shoved out the intake valve. What also happens with a later intake close event is the dynamic compression ratio drops.

***Quick segue here: Compression ratio is measured statically (which is all the measurements you're typically familiar with), as well as dynamically (as in when the engine is spinning under use). In order to calculate a dynamic compression ratio you need everything for a static CR measurements, as well as the rod length and the intake close timing event.

As the piston heads back up after BDC to start the compression stroke, the dynamic compression is measured by knowing how far up the piston is from BDC and only uses that remaining cylinder volume in the calculation. The point of this allows much more aggressive cams that are better matched to your static CR.

For instance, if you have a typical 306 (just like mine) at 10:1 CR, if you do the math for dynamic CR it comes out 8.6:1. If I were to move my cam back to straight up the DCR would move to 8.47:1 but SCR stays at 10:1.

Some theoritical engine with a 12:1 SCR could easily run pump gas if you closed the intake valve at 65 degrees ABDC because that would put the DCR at a manageable 8.35:1.

What this basically means for performance is that the earlier you close your intake valve the harder your starter is going to work, the more sensitive your engine will be to pinging, and the more snappy the engine will be in the lower rev ranges. I'm only doing this because I want a lower-heavy powerband out of my engine. I will have to be cautious of the piston to intake valve clearance, but I'll cross that bridge later. If I end up with the pings (even using 93 octane) I'll have the option to move the cam back to straight up, or even retard it 4 degrees. I can even put a thicker head gasket in to lower my SCR, but then I'll lose my quench which I'm not interested in doing, but if I have to I will. The whole point of a tight quench is to increase combustion chamber turbulence to prevent pre-ignition (pings).

Back in my days of Harley engine building the rule of thumb was to keep DCR less than 9:1. That meant you could usually tune out detonation using the typical tricks without having to resort to very high octane race fuel, and the garbage Harley starters had a snowball's chance in Haiti of being able to crank the engine over without needing compression releases.

[MB750]

Haven't updated in a while, been saving up for these:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166967&d=1652896042

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166968&d=1652896042

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166969&d=1652896042

Like a glove...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166970&d=1652896042

Well, good thing I'm not in California. I'm surprised they don't put them labels on bottles of water out there:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166971&d=1652896042

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166972&d=1652896089

I also got some checker springs for checking valve to piston clearance, and a new timing tape:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166973&d=1652896089

Next up will be checking clearances and torquing them down. I haven't bought pushrods yet because I'm optimistic I'll get away with my OEM ones. If not I'll sacrifice a couple of them by converting two into adjustable ones so I'll know exactly what length I'll need to buy.

[MB750]

Since it was obvious my OEM pushrods were too short I sacrificed two of them by making some adjustable checker pushrods. No biggie, just drill, tap, and install some longer screws that fit:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167243&d=1653500393

Silly putty in the valve pockets for checking clearance:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167244&d=1653500393

And remember that since the lifters are brand new and never been pumped up they will collapse immediately under any spring pressure. No, soaking them in oil for a week doesn't pump them up, I've tried. The only thing that pumps them up is being under pressure. I just collapse them all the way and do all my checks like they were solid lifters, then at the end figure out the travel, back that number out, and then I go buy pushrods.

Collapsing them for checking:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167245&d=1653500393

As you can see, the roller is not centered on the valve tip.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167246&d=1653500393
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167247&d=1653500393

What's needed is to know the roller sweep during actuation. This is easy using a Sharpee. Just marker up the valve tip and spin the engine over.

As you can see, not good enough:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167248&d=1653500420

But on the plus side, I've got a country mile of valve clearance:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167249&d=1653500420

[MB750]

Since I've got the checker springs I wanted to try them. First, pull the valve springs using my trusty home-made valve spring compressor and pop in the checkers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167250&d=1653500420

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167251&d=1653500420

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167252&d=1653500420

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167253&d=1653500442

Now I can literally push the valve down with my fingers. A double-check for valve clearance at this point is to put the piston at 10 degrees plus and minus around TDC and physically push the valve down. 10 degrees BTDC is for the exhaust valve, and 10 degrees ATDC is for the intake. As you can visually see, there's TONS more clearance than the recommended minimum of .080" (and .100" for the exhaust):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167254&d=1653500442

Also, after some fiddling around with pushrod length I got my roller sweep perfect!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167255&d=1653500442

And take a measurement:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167256&d=1653500442

BUT, remember, those lifters are 100% collapsed. I put my dial gauge on the pushrod side of the rocker and actuated it up and down. These lifters have .115" of takeup, so subtracting that from the pushrod length I measured means I'll need to buy 6.400" pushrods. During the install I'll be preloading the pushrods 3/4 turn on the stud. Since the studs are 24tpi that means I'll have around .030" preload on each lifter.

[BadAsp427]

It's all looking fantastic... Nice work...

[MB750]

It's all looing fantastic... Nice work...

Thank you. I think the worst part is I'm about a year away from firing it up, at the earliest. Depends on how fast I can get the Roadster up and rolling.

[MB750]

Getting this engine build back on the rails. First thing's first, cool down my garage:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170646&d=1659832806

Clean the crap out of the threads from the block cleaning

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170647&d=1659832806

Thread sealant on the lower studs

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170648&d=1659832806

.030" Cometic head gaskets:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170649&d=1659832806

And torque em' down.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170651&d=1659833073

[MB750]

And after I got them both torqued down I had a gut feeling I didn't double-check something. Gold star or free beer to whoever can call out my snafu:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170652&d=1659833073

On to the rockers. Can't just slap them on though. The alignment plates need to be welded after alignment is checked to keep the rockers centered:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170654&d=1659833073

Gotta use a TIG tho, no mess.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170655&d=1659833073

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170656&d=1659833505

Now they will never fall out of alignment:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170657&d=1659833505

[MB750]

And repeat seven more times:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170661&d=1659833958

I gave the engine a few spins to watch the symphony.

I also picked up a high contrast timing tape

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170659&d=1659833505

And I installed the oil pan studs

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170660&d=1659833505

That's enough for one day.

[rustyrim]

I hope you flipped the head gasket

[MB750]

I hope you flipped the head gasket

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170662&d=1659842341

[Blitzboy54]

I'm really enjoying watching this engine build. Good stuff

[MB750]

Today I'm gonna get the oil pan in better condition, starting with welding a bulkhead above the oil line for a turbo drain. Just in case..... :cool:

Poke a hole (between the oil pan studs...), mock it up, looks good:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170679&d=1659882871

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170681&d=1659882871

Bust out the big guns

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170682&d=1659882871

Not stacked dimes but it'll hold oil.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170683&d=1659882871

[MB750]

Also need to weld a plate over the low oil sensor bung

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170680&d=1659882871

My way of getting a round piece of steel:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170684&d=1659882900

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170685&d=1659882900

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170686&d=1659882900

I also noticed a weird looking thing in the inside of the pan close to the drain hole. Looks like it may be cracked a bit, so I worked it some with a hammer and rounded punch:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170687&d=1659882900

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170688&d=1659882900

Yup, drop a TIG bead over that too.

Next up, strip the garbage paint off the pan for a new coat. I'm also gonna run to Napa today for some new drain plugs. I want them ones with the built-in rubber sealing washer.

[MB750]

Cleaned up and painted the oil pan

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170773&d=1659996673

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170774&d=1659996673

Banged out the raspberries best I could. I'll run it.

[Chopper]

Awesome work, I love your thread.

I want to point out that the drain plug in the rear of the pan will hang down below the frame rails. I have the same pan in my car (although unmodified), and plan to switch it for a 7" deep pan this winter. I figure it would be easier to consider this now rather than later. I hope this helps, not trying to be critical.

[MB750]

Awesome work, I love your thread.

I want to point out that the drain plug in the rear of the pan will hang down below the frame rails. I have the same pan in my car (although unmodified), and plan to switch it for a 7" deep pan this winter. I figure it would be easier to consider this now rather than later. I hope this helps, not trying to be critical.

Thank you, I appreciate any and all feedback. Everything I'm doing here is based on a collection of historical knowledge, and some Youtube videos, so this build is totally receptive to outside feedback because sometimes other people have a better idea how to do something than I've got planned.

Case in point, I did not know this pan's sump went below the frame rails. Once I get everything installed and moving I'll be mindful of this potential issue, but more importantly take measurements so I can modify this pan to fit better (and hold a bit more oil). I'm not a fan of the front sump anyway so a drain to the rear sump will be incorporated into the design so there's only one outlet.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Also need to weld a plate over the low oil sensor bung

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170680&d=1659882871



Should have asked us before doing that! It's a great place to put the oil temperature sensor.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-8oN1zlmfOzJcTbIlWiPRDjmumY5_19NMaTTnFb4znNDGJXY8AJ UeWtfZ5OKfHxhZ?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1345057722

Jeff

[MB750]

Should have asked us before doing that! It's a great place to put the oil temperature sensor.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-8oN1zlmfOzJcTbIlWiPRDjmumY5_19NMaTTnFb4znNDGJXY8AJ UeWtfZ5OKfHxhZ?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1345057722

Jeff

Ah, shucks. Initially my AEM Wideband gauge will be installed where the oil temp gauge hole is. Oh well, I could just weld a bung onto that plate when I go with an oil temp meter in the future, or put the sensor in the remote oil filter lines. That oil pan bung is a clean location though.

[MB750]

Got the pan installed tonight, and it was quite a PITA using those ARP studs. I had to oversize every oil pan hole just to get a decent lineup, and bend those metal bars a bit for the same reason. One hole I even needed to bust out the die grinder to oblong the hole. Lemme say, I do NOT envy whoever has to remove that oil pan.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170826&d=1660090739

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170827&d=1660090739

I think this weekend I'm gonna start the paint process on the block.

[MB750]

That went ok. Next time I'll paint the block BEFORE I BOLT EVERYTHING ONTO IT!!! :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170998&d=1660421123

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170999&d=1660421123

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171000&d=1660421123

[MB750]

Tried fitting the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold yesterday. Looks like I'm gonna need more RTV and thicker gaskets...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171361&d=1661086428

Damn stacked tolerances. :mad:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171362&d=1661086428

Looks like a 3/8" roughing mill will make quick work of that issue. ALL the studs were off like this. Oh well, good thing I have a mill.

[Railroad]

Very nice work. After elongating the holes, you will be able to see if you need any port matching. Would not want to let this get overlooked.
Those shoulders on the upper edge of the AFR heads look like a close fit on the intake also. Maybe you will be lucky and the intake will clear.
More pics!

[John Ibele]

... Looks like I'm gonna need more RTV and thicker gaskets...

There's a seriously dry sense of humor at work ... I'm kinda parched now.

Super fun following your engine build. You've got an enviable set of skills, knowledge and tools on tap. Thanks for sharing.

[MB750]

After slight milling of the holes:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171914&d=1662143462

Clean with acetone and RTV the china rails:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171915&d=1662143462

Proud engine, just about done:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171916&d=1662143462

Test the thermostat, for funzies. Don't worry, no wives were pissed at this process. That's my oatmeal pan:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171917&d=1662143462

[Fman]

I really enjoy following your build. One thing you might want to double check is your oil pan depth, 7" deep is really the safe bet to make sure it will not be below the frame. Ask me how I know, Started with a Canton 8" and ended up with a Champ 7".

[MB750]

I really enjoy following your build. One thing you might want to double check is your oil pan depth, 7" deep is really the safe bet to make sure it will not be below the frame. Ask me how I know, Started with a Canton 8" and ended up with a Champ 7".

Thanks for the tip. I'm almost positive it'll be too deep. Someone already suggested this OEM SN-95 pan might be too deep but I don't want to stop the music just yet. I'd like to get everything installed and functional, then I'll take some measurements and do some modifying accordingly.

And keep my fingers crossed the first few thousand miles don't ground out. I plan on making the ride height a bit on the high side, depending on how it looks. I like how I can adjust that however I'd like.

[MB750]

I made an "engine buck" today. This way I can roll it around and even try starting it. Just some of those cheap engine stand pieces from Amazon, couple of Harbor Freight castors, and some lumber I pilfered from a construction site in my neighborhood. (Hey, it was leaning up against a dumpster... ;))

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172157&d=1662570092

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172158&d=1662570092

And there's enough room in the back to bolt up the bellhousing, clutch, trans, etc...

[John Ibele]

Nice. You can return all that RTV and thicker gasket material now ...

[MB750]

I'm going to keep this thread updated, but I'm also going to be taking videos for the short attention span types out there:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx1FBrzrG8k

The running trend for these videos will be summations of this thread. This thread will incorporate the details, the videos will be quick. The key is "short attention span". None of these 20 min videos with tons of red herrings all over. Straight to the key facts for the ADD/OCD viewers.

[MB750]

The water pump on this build is slightly different than the one I tore off. This engine came from a 95 Mustang, but somehow there was a Fox Body accessory drive and water pump on it. I replaced it with a 94+ water pump, but now the pulleys aren't perfect. Time to modify it, here's the water pump flange:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172208&d=1662646392

Center it in the mill:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172209&d=1662646392

Boring bar going to town (slooooooooowwwwwwwwwwly):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172210&d=1662646392

Like a glove:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172211&d=1662646392

But now my crank pulley don't line up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=172212&d=1662646392

From my research, the SN-95 Mustang went with an electronic radiator fan, whereas the Fox Body has mechanical drive directly off the water pump. No biggie, I've found underdrive pulleys for the SN-95 all day long on the internet for about $75.

[MB750]

I also didn't cover this with pics, but I fixed how the oil pan mounts. Apparently the new timing cover wasn't perfectly exactly a replication of the OEM part because the two front oil pan bolts were juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust a smidge angled off, which put the ends of the studs pointing away from the rest, which made installation of the oil pan and keeper rails a PITA. So I got out the die grinder and cleaned those two holes up. Now the oil pan slips on and off like buttah.

I also double-nutted the oil pan studs and used red loctite. They're studs, they ain't coming out any time soon.

[MB750]

Bench testing the 3G alternator that came out of the Mustang:

Edit: 6G alternator, not a 3G.


https://youtu.be/7GkvuPnsKzI

[MB750]

Is there a reason my youtube videos are shown but not playing? I just get the spinning circle, it never starts. I can click on the Youtube link in the bottom right to go to youtube to watch it but it never plays from this thread.

[John Ibele]

Not sure if there was a time lag from when you loaded, but both worked for me by hitting the play arrow, and didn’t take me anywhere else. I think you’re good.

[MB750]

Not sure if there was a time lag from when you loaded, but both worked for me by hitting the play arrow, and didn’t take me anywhere else. I think you’re good.

Thanks man. The problem is on my end for some reason. I use Firefox, but when I open this thread in Edge (and don't log into my FFR Forum account) the videos play just fine.

[MB750]

Plugging along on the engine. Dealing with Ian right now so my garage is very full of stuff

HEI distributor, reused the 6G alternator and made a custom lower mount for it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173158&d=1664399873

Just a 1.5" long aluminum spacer was enough to keep the back of the alternator about 1/4" away from the head. I'll have to fabricate something for the top mount. Maybe some type of mount that takes the hole around the side of the alternator so I can use some heim joints to tension the belt.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173159&d=1664399873

And look at that alignment now...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173160&d=1664399873

[MB750]

Since nobody makes an alternator bracket for my application, I made one myself:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173579&d=1665349799

I'll paint it black later.

[MB750]

WOO HOO!!! No pics, but I just had my kit review chat with FFR! :D

Everything's on track for production and shipping.

[John Ibele]

WOO HOO!!! No pics, but I just had my kit review chat with FFR! :D

Everything's on track for production and shipping.

Fantastic. I'm looking forward to seeing your enviable fab skills applied to the rest of the car.

[MB750]

Fantastic. I'm looking forward to seeing your enviable fab skills applied to the rest of the car.

Thank you for this comment, I appreciate it. I'm really looking forward as well. I've grown tired of working on motorcycles, time for something new.

[MB750]

Merry Christmas to me!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176703&d=1670942646

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176706&d=1670942781

Doing inventory now. It's going...... interestingly. :confused: So far, no tail lights and twice the door latch equipment than I need and I'm only on box 6. Is this normal?

My back is going to be killing me tonight though. Bent over slightly going thru all these boxes is taking its toll.

[Mike.Bray]

twice the door latch equipment than I need

Door latches are the last remaining item on my POL list. Send me your spare set! LOL

[JeffP]

Merry Christmas to me!


Doing inventory now. It's going...... interestingly. :confused: So far, no tail lights and twice the door latch equipment than I need and I'm only on box 6. Is this normal?

My back is going to be killing me tonight though. Bent over slightly going thru all these boxes is taking its toll.

Completely normal.

[MB750]

Wow, lots of boxes to find a place for. I built this "loft" over my wife's car for her stuff. I had to annex it:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176881&d=1671311683

Getting the body off was just like in the FFR video. It's surprisingly light. Since I was going to hoist it up to my ceiling it's staged in this pic:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176882&d=1671311683

Hoist it up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176883&d=1671311683

[MB750]

I hate dead space, especially since I've got a lot of stuff to store, so I rigged up this "shelf" inside the body to hold the doors, hood, trunk, and all the aluminum I take off the chassis:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176884&d=1671311683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176885&d=1671311683

Tomorrow I'll work on the aluminum. Enough for one day:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176886&d=1671311706

[Jeff Kleiner]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176885&d=1671311683



I'm pretty familiar with these bodies ;) and would like to make a suggestion...or warning. The way you have your straps they are flexing the body inward across the wheel openings. Your shelf (which is clever!) is exacerbating that with it's additional weight pulling on the straps. I'd feel a lot better if you ran a 2x4 across the wheel openings and then hooked the straps on the ends of those. You could suspend the "shelf" from these. If done this way the body would just be held up in a relaxed state without any pressure flexing it inward.

Good luck,
Jeff

[MB750]

Thanks Jeff, and consider it done. I just ran out of lumber but I like your concerns. I'll bang that out tomorrow. Chances are this body will be hanging out for 6 months or so, so your concerns are appreciated.

[MB750]

Thanks again Jeff, that was a good idea. It's much more solid now. I left the straps but they're not load-bearing. Just for when I lower the body:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176913&d=1671401191

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176914&d=1671401191

Numbering the aluminum panels on the chassis per the instruction manual:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176915&d=1671401191

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176916&d=1671401191

And the "shelf" is already working out great!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176917&d=1671401191

Next up, assembly!!! Tonight I'll start a path forward. If I use the Factory Five assembly videos I'll be starting with the front control arms.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176918&d=1671401216

[cc2Arider]

Good plan!

I just cleared out some more room in my garage by moving my cheapo kayak to my outdoor shed.176919

I picked up an overhead storage pulley system (made for kayaks) from Menard's pretty cheap, and am thinking about doing the same for my roadster body, too :) It's made for about 100lbs, so I'll get two of them and use Jeff's 2x4 suggestion on my body buck:cool:

Craig C

[MB750]

Good plan!

I just cleared out some more room in my garage by moving my cheapo kayak to my outdoor shed.176919

I picked up an overhead storage pulley system (made for kayaks) from Menard's pretty cheap, and am thinking about doing the same for my roadster body, too :) It's made for about 100lbs, so I'll get two of them and use Jeff's 2x4 suggestion on my body buck:cool:

Craig C

I was originally going to go with the kayak hoists as well, but then just forgot to order them. By the time I had the body off I wanted it up on the ceiling faster than I wanted to wait for delivery, so here we are. :o

I had the wide ratchet straps from when I strapped down the Mustang donor, they'll work great for this as well.

[MB750]

Since my last update I've gotten started on the build. Low and behold, it's going smoothly. I think it's more time consuming to find and arrange layout of parts than it is to physically install them. Regardless, there's TONS of people who've done a better job than I have the ambition to put towards a blue ribbon level build thread, so I'll basically be doing updates as I deem fit. Unless I run into something unique to my configuration, of course. That being said, progress so far:

Front suspension and control arms mostly done (front rotors on POL)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177199&d=1672092280

My axle has 131K miles so it's getting the royal treatment. Complete teardown and replacement of some bearings, all seals, differential clutches, and a paint job:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177200&d=1672092280

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177201&d=1672092280

Steering done too. My rack was only 3.125 turns lock to lock. Here's where it landed after I flipped the steering wheel housing over.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177202&d=1672092280

And after cleaning off decades of grime and grease, and cleaning the bare steel with acetone, this is the primer:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177203&d=1672092280

After this dries I'll be going with satin black. Both Rustoleum hand painted (not rattle can).

[Jeff Kleiner]

I see an axle with an ABS ring which tells me that it’s from 1994 or later. Are you keeping that width? If so what is your wheel and tire plan?

Jeff

[JeffP]

Be careful with those HF Dollies and Jack stands. I've rolled mine around the garage and had those dollies catch an expansion joint just right and have a wheel slip off. Adding a jack stand thats not even strapped to the dolly is eventually going to not end well.

[MB750]

I see an axle with an ABS ring which tells me that it’s from 1994 or later. Are you keeping that width? If so what is your wheel and tire plan?

Jeff

At this point I'm keeping the 18x9 wheels that came off the Mustang (which was a 95) and putting new 255/40/18's on it. Just street tires, I'll go with sticky rubber once I settle on a better, more period-specific type wheel.

Now you've got me worried though. Is there an issue with this axle? Or do I just need to keep wheel backspacing a consideration with my wheels?

[Jeff Kleiner]

At this point I'm keeping the 18x9 wheels that came off the Mustang (which was a 95) and putting new 255/40/18's on it. Just street tires, I'll go with sticky rubber once I settle on a better, more period-specific type wheel.

Now you've got me worried though. Is there an issue with this axle? Or do I just need to keep wheel backspacing a consideration with my wheels?

If you try to run the FFR 17x10.5” or 18x11” (or other rims in those sizes with similar backspace and offset specs) you’ll get into trouble with tire to body interference.

Jeff

[MB750]

If you try to run the FFR 17x10.5” or 18x11” (or other rims in those sizes with similar backspace and offset specs) you’ll get into trouble with tire to body interference.

Jeff

Cool, thanks Jeff. Doing some googling, looks like my axle is .75" wider in total than the Fox Body variant. I'll keep this in mind regarding the wheels. My current wheels have a 6" backspacing, and since I'm going with 255 tires (at least for break-in and roadworthy testing) I'll be good. And I can take measurements for clearance and base my next wheels and tires off my physical limitations.

Considering I'm not going with a 427" with zillions of HP I don't see a super urgent need to have 315 width tires. When I eventually do get my wheels I'll probably stick with something in the 9" to 10" wheel range and around a 275-295 width. Knowing this new information about the axle I'll have to keep backspacing in mind.

[MB750]

Just a quick plug for ACE Hardware.

I was lowballed a 3/4" x 16 jam nut in the axle hardware kit box. These are used on the upper and panhard bars. One on each bar is left hand thread, the other is normal, but they're both 3/4" x 16 thread. This is not a very common size, but fortunately I needed the right hand thread version.

Knowing Lowes and Home Despot never carry anything north of 1/2", and their inventory for fine thread is a total crap shoot, I hit up the local ACE. Low and behold, not only did they have exactly a 3/4"x16 jam nut, they also had left hand thread 3/4"x16 nuts (not jam though).

Thankfully the ACE is only about 3 miles from my house. I love ACE Hardware!

[Mike.Bray]

Just a quick plug for ACE Hardware.

I was lowballed a 3/4" x 16 jam nut in the axle hardware kit box. These are used on the upper and panhard bars. One on each bar is left hand thread, the other is normal, but they're both 3/4" x 16 thread. This is not a very common size, but fortunately I needed the right hand thread version.

Knowing Lowes and Home Despot never carry anything north of 1/2", and their inventory for fine thread is a total crap shoot, I hit up the local ACE. Low and behold, not only did they have exactly a 3/4"x16 jam nut, they also had left hand thread 3/4"x16 nuts (not jam though).

Thankfully the ACE is only about 3 miles from my house. I love ACE Hardware!

Ace is amazing. I usually hit them first when looking for hardware.

[JeffP]

Sadly an absurdly large percentage of nuts/bolts on my completed car were sourced from my local DoIt center (like ACE if you don't have them..)

[MB750]

Sadly an absurdly large percentage of nuts/bolts on my completed car were sourced from my local DoIt center (like ACE if you don't have them..)

Yea, that's a bummer. I actually headed back for some 1/2" fasteners stuff because I didn't like the length of the bolts they gave me to mount the lower control arm bracket. The one that goes thru the shock, it barely had enough threads to get going on the lock part of the nut. So I got some 1/2" longer bolts and teflon lock nuts.

I also didn't get any spacers for the Koni shocks in the rear either. I had a couple extra spacers that were 5/8" for the panhard bar bolts, but I wasn't going to use them on a 1/2" bolt. ACE to the rescue again there too! (although I did have to machine them a little shorter to be perfect)

[MB750]

Continuing the work. Got the axle mounted, but it was gutted from all the bits so it was relatively light:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177469&d=1672533308

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177470&d=1672533308

I had to make the spacers for the rear shocks. Apparently they're included with the IRS components but not with the 3-link. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it to FFR:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177471&d=1672533308

Drilled out 1/2" nuts work great as spacers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177472&d=1672533308

[MB750]

I got the footbox installed but wasn't 100% on that balance rod for the brakes, so I watched a few videos online and cleaned all the damn paint out of the inside of the brake lever (which was making the balance rod stick) and got out the caliper for some accurate data:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177473&d=1672533308

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177474&d=1672533332

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177475&d=1672533332

According to Wilwood, one full turn on the balance rod is a 4% increase in lever force on the master cylinder you move the center of the balance rod towards. The right master cylinder (when facing forward) is the front brakes. Marking the top, I gave it 5 turns for a 70/30 distribution:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177476&d=1672533332

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177477&d=1672533332

[MB750]

All done:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177478&d=1672533332

And the gas pedal, but I didn't mess with the cable yet because I'm probably gonna go with lever arms instead of the cable:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177479&d=1672533347

[edwardb]

I don't think your balance bar is adjusted properly. As shown in the manual (a cut and paste from Wilwood instructions) there's supposed to be some looseness between each clevis and the pedal. "In the neutral position, clevises should have between .20” - .25” total clearance between the side of the pedal. The large washers between the pedal and clevis should remain loose." Maybe it's the camera angle, but yours looks tighter than that. Matching the dimensions of the width of the MC's and the clevises isn't part of the setup, which you seem to be trying to do. Not sure what videos you're watching and what advice you might be getting there. But it's important that the balance bar have the recommended clearance to work properly. Agreed it's maybe not intuitive. But that's how it works.

[MB750]

I don't think your balance bar is adjusted properly. As shown in the manual (a cut and paste from Wilwood instructions) there's supposed to be some looseness between each clevis and the pedal. "In the neutral position, clevises should have between .20” - .25” total clearance between the side of the pedal. The large washers between the pedal and clevis should remain loose." Maybe it's the camera angle, but yours looks tighter than that. Matching the dimensions of the width of the MC's and the clevises isn't part of the setup, which you seem to be trying to do. Not sure what videos you're watching and what advice you might be getting there. But it's important that the balance bar have the recommended clearance to work properly. Agreed it's maybe not intuitive. But that's how it works.

It's the angle of the camera. There's around .200" of clearance when I shove the whole balance bar to one side. I measured it with a bunch of feeler gauges, but per Wilwood, two quarters is enough. For the life of me I don't have any spare change around the house so I used a feeler gauge. 0.200" also leaves the clevis' very close to the MC width. When I look straight down at the whole setup the MC shafts are visually parallel, and when measured I'd call it "close enough for Government work". I also didn't get a pic but I did adjust the clevis' to the width of the master cylinders. Basically just took one clevis out another turn and I got as close as possible to the MC width while keeping the BB centered.

Once I had the clevis width the same as the MC width, I had the balance bar at 50/50. That's the caliper measurement from center to 2.5" (there was 2.5" on the other side as well). Per one of the Wilwood videos I watched, one turn on the balance bar is 4% leverage increase on the side you move the balance bar pivot away from. Since my right MC is the front brakes, and I want to start at 70/30 (like a motorcycle), I turned the balance bar 5 times to get the BB pivot closer to the rear MC.

And that is my biggest beef with the manual. It says what to do, but there's no clarifying pictures showing you the mechanics of what's being done. Yes it shows something, but I wanted to clearly see where the BB pivot was located in the brake lever. Even most of the videos I watched didn't illustrate what side you need to move the BB pivot closer to in order to increase the mechanical advantage on one of the MC's, it just said what to do. I'm a very visual person so when I didn't get 100% clarity from the manual I hit the internet.

I also adjusted the MC rods so at 0% brake pedal input the right clevis is just a bit in front of the left, and at 100% pedal input the right clevis passes the left and ends up a bit behind the left one. This is to maintain maximum leverage across the sweep of the brake pedal (just like the Wilwood instructions show in the FFR manual). Once I have everything bled I may make more adjustments since the brake lever sweep is HUGE with no brake fluid or pressure, but at least I'm in the ballpark.

Here's some clarifying pics:

0% brake lever effort from my foot. Right clevis is further forward than the left. And there is no preload on either MC:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177497&d=1672576892

100% brake lever effort. Notice how the right clevis is now further back than the left:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177498&d=1672576892

Balance rod pulled all the way to the left, plenty of clearance:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177499&d=1672576892

[MB750]

Just want to put a quick list of where I'm at, where I'm going next, and where I'm stuck:

Front brakes - need rotors on POL
Rear brakes - since those are on me I need rotors, and clean up OEM calipers. Buy pads too
Axle - need 3/4"x20 tap and die for pinion thread and nut clean-up, then I can install differential and axles
Fuel tank - want to finish axle first for more room to work, and need POL fuel tank pickup and level sensor
Brake lines - could get started on the hard lines, but need the front flex lines on POL
Cockpit Aluminum - Could do this also...after brake lines though

[Mike.Bray]

I have a 3 link and all of the spacers for the shocks came with it. You should have received them with your kit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just want to put a quick list of where I'm at, where I'm going next, and where I'm stuck:


Axle - need 3/4"x20 tap and die for pinion thread and nut clean-up, then I can install differential and axles


There is no 3/4-20. 3/4” threads are either 10 or 16. You can buy a new pinion nut for about 8 bucks; probably less than a tap.


I have a 3 link and all of the spacers for the shocks came with it. You should have received them with your kit.

Correct. Should have. And there are specific lengths and stack up which are shown in the manual.

Jeff

[MB750]

I have a 3 link and all of the spacers for the shocks came with it. You should have received them with your kit.

...should have... Key operative there. :confused:

As this thing comes together I'm discovering quite a few things I "should have" gotten but didn't. Not even on the inventories for each box either.

As you can see from my honey-do list above, I'm stuck on a couple things on POL. Making a spacer is as easy as buying an oversized one and milling it down. The manual says the dimensions, and I've got a mill. :cool:

I'll start on the brake lines next. At least I can terminate them at the transitions where they switch to soft lines.

[edwardb]

It's the angle of the camera. There's around .200" of clearance when I shove the whole balance bar to one side. I measured it with a bunch of feeler gauges, but per Wilwood, two quarters is enough. For the life of me I don't have any spare change around the house so I used a feeler gauge. 0.200" also leaves the clevis' very close to the MC width. When I look straight down at the whole setup the MC shafts are visually parallel, and when measured I'd call it "close enough for Government work". I also didn't get a pic but I did adjust the clevis' to the width of the master cylinders. Basically just took one clevis out another turn and I got as close as possible to the MC width while keeping the BB centered.

Once I had the clevis width the same as the MC width, I had the balance bar at 50/50. That's the caliper measurement from center to 2.5" (there was 2.5" on the other side as well). Per one of the Wilwood videos I watched, one turn on the balance bar is 4% leverage increase on the side you move the balance bar pivot towards. Since my right MC is the front brakes, and I want to start at 70/30 (like a motorcycle), I turned the balance bar 5 times clockwise (facing it from the right) to get the BB pivot closer to the right MC.

And that is my biggest beef with the manual. It says what to do, but there's no clarifying pictures showing you the mechanics of what's being done. Yes it shows something, but I wanted to clearly see where the BB pivot was located in the brake lever. Even most of the videos I watched didn't illustrate what side you need to move the BB pivot closer to in order to increase the mechanical advantage on one of the MC's, it just said what to do. I'm a very visual person so when I didn't get 100% clarity from the manual I hit the internet.

I also adjusted the MC rods so at 0% brake pedal input the right clevis is just a bit in front of the left, and at 100% pedal input the right clevis passes the left and ends up a bit behind the left one. This is to maintain maximum leverage across the sweep of the brake pedal (just like the Wilwood instructions show in the FFR manual). Once I have everything bled I may make more adjustments since the brake lever sweep is HUGE with no brake fluid or pressure, but at least I'm in the ballpark.

You clearly have the specified clearance. Just wasn't clear from the previous picture. Something that a lot of guys miss so thought that was the case. Sorry for questioning. For my builds, I've always started with the balance bar in the center and have required little/no adjustment from there. These cars take a lot of rear brake. But you'll find out when you start actually testing.

[MB750]

You clearly have the specified clearance. Just wasn't clear from the previous picture. Something that a lot of guys miss so thought that was the case. Sorry for questioning. For my builds, I've always started with the balance bar in the center and have required little/no adjustment from there. These cars take a lot of rear brake. But you'll find out when you start actually testing.

No problem, I appreciate it. One of the reasons I'm so transparent with most things in my life is because I like the oversight from people who've done this before. I don't know everything, and sharing my experience with others who've done this before only helps me, and anyone else who might be reading this build thread.

As far as testing my brakes, I was planning on finding a dirt road around here and having my wife record me locking up the brakes to various degrees. This way I can see what end locks up first, and make adjustments from there.

[MB750]

December progress. This includes all the time I worked with the car (delivery, inventory, garage setup, etc...)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177612&d=1672752920

[MB750]

December progress video:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd8ktnAjhg0

[MB750]

Ok, this is getting annoying and I need to vent...

I'm getting started on my brakes lines and reservoir install. The reservoir install went fine even though the manual nor the video is the same as what I was sent. Regardless, it's installed and plumbed and hose clamped.

Starting on the brake lines, I removed them from the tube they all came in. "Looks like enough" I say, so I work on getting more parts ready for install. Hmmmm, insulated clips, I don't recall seeing them during inventory. Considering the video shows about 20 of them being installed I'm guessing there's a sizeable bag of them somewhere.

Nope... None.... In any of my boxes. Not listed on my inventory lists either, nor on POL. So I hit up my reference list for stuff like this (mladen's inventory tracking spreadsheet) and low and behold there's an entire kit that somehow just fell off my order...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177717&d=1672861554

No wonder these cars take so long to build! If something isn't on POL, it just fell off the BOM entirely and you'll never get it if you don't magically know you were supposed to in the first place!

[MB750]

Making progress on the brake lines. Please ignore the duct tape straps. Also waiting for the rest of the front brake fittings from the 20" flex line (which apparently includes the Tee and adapter to AN-3 brake line).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177776&d=1673054142

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177777&d=1673054142

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177778&d=1673054142

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177779&d=1673054142

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177780&d=1673054142

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177781&d=1673054177

[MB750]

Clean up the threads on the pinion and install it, and the differential, and check gear mesh pattern:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177782&d=1673054177

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177783&d=1673054177

Crushing that crush spacer was a total bear. It was everything I had using this breaker bar to get a smidge of turn on the nut.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177784&d=1673054177

When you can turn the pinion at 16 to 28 in-lbs that's enough preload on the pinion. I honestly think this is the one and only time I'll every use a beam-style 1/4" drive inch-pound torque wrench:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177785&d=1673054177

Add marking compound, apply some resistance to the carrier and turn the pinion. Here's the forward pattern:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177787&d=1673054211

And reverse:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177786&d=1673054211

I can live with that.

[MB750]

Axle is complete (except for brakes, which are on order). Took about an hour cleaning up that cover but I like the contrast between bare metal and the painted axle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177822&d=1673124554

[MB750]

Almost forgot to add these little stinkers:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177840&d=1673203578

[MB750]

Passenger footbox done:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177948&d=1673444835

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177949&d=1673444835

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177950&d=1673444835

[MB750]

More aluminum work:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178088&d=1673661823

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178089&d=1673661823

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178090&d=1673661823

[MB750]

Now I need to take a little brake on the vehicle-specific progress for a few weeks. Not only am I waiting on some parts (including some POL items for the front brakes and the fuel tank), but I also have to paint my wheels, buy and mount some tires, and rebuild the T5 transmission. I was waffling on rebuilding the tranny but decided to pull the trigger after watching a few rebuild videos and seeing how much worn synchros and loose bearings can reek havoc on smooth shifts. Once the trans is done I can bolt it to the engine and toss those in the car.

I'll keep posting pics. They won't be car specific, but they will be related to the build.

[Railroad]

You might want to check the hyd fluid reservoir height, to make sure the fluid level is higher than the master cylinder. It looks like you have plenty of room to work with.

[MB750]

You might want to check the hyd fluid reservoir height, to make sure the fluid level is higher than the master cylinder. It looks like you have plenty of room to work with.

Yea, I thought of this during the install, but the manual says it's ok to be installed there so I went with it. When I think about it, once the system is bled it's air tight between the MC and the reservoir. Temp changes in the fluid cause it to expand and contract, which is the purpose of the reservoir during normal use. As long as there's some air space in the reservoir it should operate normally and shouldn't create a siphon effect since it's sealed. As the level drops (for whatever reason) that little rubber seal under the lid just expands down to take up the space.

Typically when I bleed brakes, especially when new, I use my air compressor on a very low setting and force the fluid from the reservoir thru the MC's and down to the calipers. Once fluid is coming out of all the bleeders, then I pump the brakes and bleed the air out like normally. Just have to make sure the caliper bleeders are open when you do this, and once fluid starts coming out you close them quickly. I've done this on countless Harleys and it works great. I've got a little plate with a rubber pad on one side and a hole in the middle. I put my rubber tipped air nozzle into the hole and push down on the whole affair when I pressurize the reservoir. I'm only talking like 2 psi here, just enough to get the fluid flowing. Since this reservoir is the size of a shot glass I'll have to check the level frequently while I do this.

I also hit the calipers with a dose of pressurized air as well to get the pads up against the rotors. This frees up maximum volume in each caliper so there's minimal losses in reservoir during bleeding.

But back to your point, I still may move it to the firewall, or up on the 3/4" tube in front of the footbox. The last thing I want is my brakes going Tango Uniform....

[Jeff Kleiner]

I once had a landscape employee who thought liquid could run uphill. Try as I might she never got it.

Jeff

[MB750]

I once had a landscape employee who thought liquid could run uphill. Try as I might she never got it.

Jeff

I find it obvious the key word in that comment is "had". ;)

[MB750]

FFR sells the brake reservoir for $67. It's the whole enchilada (mount, hoses, fittings, canister, etc...) so I'm gonna buy it and move both up on the frame rail like so many people have already done.

https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/34168-brake-reservoir-components/

And I'll have two, because I'll probably go with a hydraulic clutch eventually.

[MB750]

Thanks to Eric the Car Guy and this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XREsRG9Y1mU)video to get me in the correct direction:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178157&d=1673829584

[Railroad]

I think you can attain a higher mount on the front of the fox box, where you are, than on the frame rail.
I put mine on the frame rail and the bottom of the reservoir is not higher than the master cylinder.
The top of the full fluid level is higher. So, my reservoirs need to stay full.
Just FYI, before you mock up the move.

[MB750]

I think you can attain a higher mount on the front of the fox box, where you are, than on the frame rail.
I put mine on the frame rail and the bottom of the reservoir is not higher than the master cylinder.
The top of the full fluid level is higher. So, my reservoirs need to stay full.
Just FYI, before you mock up the move.

I thought of that, but then the reservoir blocks that large hole. For the life of me I have no idea what that huge hole is for, but I just don't think I should block it.

I got another reservoir on order from FFR. Putting the two of them next to each other, as high as possible, is the goal.

[MB750]

I created a dedicated thread for my Cadillac (Brembo) front calipers here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45032-Cadillac-calipers-On-my-Cobra-It-s-more-likely-than-you-think)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178201&d=1673885264

I'll paint them red eventually, and put a larger Brembo sticker on the outside surface so everyone knows how cool my brakes are. :cool:

[JeffP]

I thought of that, but then the reservoir blocks that large hole. For the life of me I have no idea what that huge hole is for, but I just don't think I should block it.

I got another reservoir on order from FFR. Putting the two of them next to each other, as high as possible, is the goal.

Typically thats where the front end wire harness leg goes through that hole with a grommet and them runs up the 1x1" tube

[MB750]

Ok, better fuel lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178302&d=1674152271

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178303&d=1674152271

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178304&d=1674152271

And don't let anyone tell you that copper nickel is "easy to bend..." Like hell it is! This is 3/8" line and it was almost as hard to bend as the 5/16" steel that came from FFR. At least now I'll have the flow. I put hose barb fittings on each end so I can just use flex line rated for FI pressures.

[MB750]

Diving into the transmission, I discovered these have an issue:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178436&d=1674426080

These are the synchronizer keys for the 1-2 gear shift. So I figured, they're steel, and I have a TIG welder, lemme straighten them out, drop a bead or two, and be good to go.

Well, no dice. They're some really hard and brittle steel, and my TIG doesn't drop the amperage low enough to run a really small bead. I even cranked up the pulse to soften the heat and it still kept wanting to melt. Well, I tried.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178437&d=1674426080

I was having trouble finding a set of just those keys, but after I discovered their actual part number I found a bunch of sources.

[JeffP]

Might be just camera angles, but some of those fuel lines look like they have some significant creases in them that could restrict flow. These are cheap and help maintain the integrity of the tube: https://a.co/d/9WYGGFm

[MB750]

Might be just camera angles, but some of those fuel lines look like they have some significant creases in them that could restrict flow. These are cheap and help maintain the integrity of the tube: https://a.co/d/9WYGGFm

Thank you, but that's exactly the same tool that caused the weirdness in the tubing. It would start kinking the line after about 45 degrees of bend. Combined with how hard that line was and it turned into a bit of a pain in the ***.

Makes me wonder if I couldn't have just ran regular copper.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Might be just camera angles, but some of those fuel lines look like they have some significant creases in them that could restrict flow…

I’d be even more concerned by the flow restriction caused by those brass hard 90 degree fittings.

Jeff

[MB750]

In all honesty, I'm not happy with how it's turned out either. Why is this fuel line kicking my *** so much?

It's got me tempted to just run braided 3/8" PTFE from the tank to the regulator. Am I bound by running hard line down on the frame rails or can I go flex the whole way?

[Alec]

In all honesty, I'm not happy with how it's turned out either. Why is this fuel line kicking my *** so much?

It's got me tempted to just run braided 3/8" PTFE from the tank to the regulator. Am I bound by running hard line down on the frame rails or can I go flex the whole way?

I haven't installed mine yet (hopefully this weekend), but I'm doing -6AN PTFE braided stainless for the whole system. 4 hoses that I am making to length myself. Haven't decided whether to go along the 4" tube or along the top of the tunnel.

[egchewy79]

In all honesty, I'm not happy with how it's turned out either. Why is this fuel line kicking my *** so much?

It's got me tempted to just run braided 3/8" PTFE from the tank to the regulator. Am I bound by running hard line down on the frame rails or can I go flex the whole way?

I ran -6AN SS braided PTFE lines along the 4" tube for my fuel and return lines. FYI, the OD of the -6AN PTFE is slightly smaller than regular SS braided rubber lines. I think I found the appropriately sized clamps through Earl's.

[MB750]

That does it, it's coming out. 3rd time's the charm... :mad:

[danmas]

I haven't done it but, when I do, I think this is the way. Some people are really good with this stuff. I will also run ss braided PTFE lines the whole way. I think.

[MB750]

Just some notes for future short-term goals while I'm thinking about it. I've almost got the tranny back together so I'll consider it done for January. Things got a little "spendy" for January, I need to reel that business in for February. These goals are more focused on parts I have on hand, not so much things I need to buy (except for the wheel stuff and fuel lines):

February -

Engine, trans, and driveshaft installed
Wheels powder coated
Tires installed
Wiring harness laid out in chassis, terminations where applicable
New -6AN fuel lines
Install POL items in fuel tank (assuming I actually get these items...)
Finish and bleed brakes (again, POL items pending...)
Finish aluminum panels in back half of car

[MB750]

https://youtu.be/3lHtEipP6w0

[Fman]

In all honesty, I'm not happy with how it's turned out either. Why is this fuel line kicking my *** so much?

It's got me tempted to just run braided 3/8" PTFE from the tank to the regulator. Am I bound by running hard line down on the frame rails or can I go flex the whole way?

You can run full flex lines, no issues with doing it this way. Just make sure they are a name brand PTFE line (ie: Fragola). This will also allow you to use some nice -AN fittings for a clean look and no leaking.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135058&d=1600143200

[MB750]

You can run full flex lines, no issues with doing it this way. Just make sure they are a name brand PTFE line (ie: Fragola). This will also allow you to use some nice -AN fittings for a clean look and no leaking.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135058&d=1600143200

Yes, that is exactly the route I'm going with. PTFE all the way from the tank pickup to the carb.

[MB750]

Moving right along:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179322&d=1675603553

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179323&d=1675603553

New throwout bearing (also called a clutch release bearing, apparently), and I buttoned it all back up. Kinda regret not going with a new clutch and flywheel, but I need to curb expenses a little. I'm discovering a LOT of items I'm having to source myself for one reason or another and it's adding up. If I were having a 500hp engine put in here I would have put those two higher on the list, but since this is basically just a warmed over 302, the OEM stuff should be ok. Worse case scenario, I'm dropping the trans a few months after it's roadworthy to install $300 worth of clutch bits. To me, that's a fun weekend. ;)

My dad's gonna come up next weekend to help me install the engine/trans. Not much else tho. I'm expecting a POL shipment tomorrow, but I can only speculate what's in it. Hopefully fuel tank stuff.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I see by the bellhousing that you're using a SN95 configuration which I assume you know moves the transmission farther rearward than in a Fox body. The last one that I built using SN95 components required the driveshaft to be shortened because the FFR T-5 shaft is set up for Fox length. Just a heads up for ya'.

Jeff

[MB750]

I see by the bellhousing that you're using a SN95 configuration which I assume you know moves the transmission farther rearward than in a Fox body. The last one that I built using SN95 components required the driveshaft to be shortened because the FFR T-5 shaft is set up for Fox length. Just a heads up for ya'.

Jeff

Jeff

No, I was not aware of that, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Just like the axle width, it's an other SN-95 curveball. I guess I kinda figured when I told FFR that my "donor" was a 95 they'd account for these types of things but I guess not.

How much shorter did you have to make your driveshaft?

Considering the overall length of my trans/bellhousing, I'm guessing if I were to make everything Fox Body equivalent I'd obviously need a bellhousing, but also the input shaft to the trans since that dictates the bellhousing "length" as well.

Also, follow-up question, but in your professional opinion do I have any more SN-95 specific ghosts in my closet that will jump out unforeseen?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff

No, I was not aware of that, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Just like the axle width, it's an other SN-95 curveball. I guess I kinda figured when I told FFR that my "donor" was a 95 they'd account for these types of things but I guess not.

How much shorter did you have to make your driveshaft?

Considering the overall length of my trans/bellhousing, I'm guessing if I were to make everything Fox Body equivalent I'd obviously need a bellhousing, but also the input shaft to the trans since that dictates the bellhousing "length" as well.

Also, follow-up question, but in your professional opinion do I have any more SN-95 specific ghosts in my closet that will jump out unforeseen?

You are correct; if you change the bell it requires a different input. SN95 works but you will need to check the driveshaft (after setting the pinion angle) to see if it bottoms in the transmission during suspension compression. That occurred on the car I built with SN95 configuration and I had the shaft shortened...an inch as I recall. The shifter will move rearward so you'll need to open up the hole in the trans tunnel top.You already know that the rear end is 1.5" wider. The other oddity with SN95 is the engine's front dress. Don't know what your plan is there---if you go with aftermarket Fox based pulleys and brackets you'll have to also change the water pump. If you stick with SN95 and plan to use power steering you may find that the PS pump conflicts with the steering shaft.

Jeff

[MB750]

You are correct; if you change the bell it requires a different input. SN95 works but you will need to check the driveshaft (after setting the pinion angle) to see if it bottoms in the transmission during suspension compression. That occurred on the car I built with SN95 configuration and I had the shaft shortened...an inch as I recall. The shifter will move rearward so you'll need to open up the hole in the trans tunnel top.You already know that the rear end is 1.5" wider. The other oddity with SN95 is the engine's front dress. Don't know what your plan is there---if you go with aftermarket Fox based pulleys and brackets you'll have to also change the water pump. If you stick with SN95 and plan to use power steering you may find that the PS pump conflicts with the steering shaft.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate your input.

My plan was to install the driveshaft during this whole process since I'll have help from my dad. Now what I may do is get the engine and trans installed, and then take off the rear shocks so I can easily articulate the driveshaft. In the upper most position get a measurement so I'll have an idea on driveshaft length and go from there.

Also regarding the front of the engine, mine's all dressed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173158&d=1664399873

SN95 underdrive pulley, I bored out the inner hole on the Fox Body water pump pulley to make it fit, and the alternator mount is a very custom job so now they all line up. For some reason this engine had the Fox Body water pump and crank pulley (and all accessory brackets and mounting locations). Now it's nice and tight. No PS either, for now. If I do, it'll be electric.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173160&d=1664399873

[Jeff Kleiner]

Unless the photo is deceiving it looks like you have a smooth pulley on the water pump. Are you taking the belt from the crank pulley to the alternator with the back side of the belt kissing the pump and driving it or are you taking the belt up and over the pump to the alternator? If it’s the latter the pump will be spinning the wrong direction and the grooved belt won’t want to stay on the smooth pulley.

Jeff

[MB750]

The pump will be spinning opposite of the crank. I made 100% sure of that before ordering it and setting things up like this. The way I built my alternator adjusting bracket puts more tension on the pump pulley as I push the alternator up.

I've seen a few pics from other builds where they do the same orientation. Yes, there isn't much belt on the water pump pulley, but they don't have overheating issues.

[MB750]

My dad came up from Ft. Myers to help out with the build today. It was engine installation time:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179802&d=1676167071

Unfortunately we had some close appendages to take care of:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179803&d=1676167071

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179804&d=1676167071

Pull the engine/trans, do some clearancing, and install it again. Much better:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179805&d=1676167071

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179808&d=1676167096

[MB750]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179807&d=1676167096

There was a plate that's used as an adapter between the transmission and the transmission mount. It's used to offset the trans mount rearward a bit and supposed to line up with the slots in the A-frame. Well, due to my SN-95 combination the mounting holes in the urethane were right in the middle of the two slots. So, removing that adapter bracket made all the difference. The mount by itself works swimmingly:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179809&d=1676167096

I also shoved the driveshaft all the way forward to see how it mounts up to the pinion flange:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179810&d=1676167096

No dice. Gotta take off about 3/4" to make it work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179811&d=1676167096

[edwardb]

No dice. Gotta take off about 3/4" to make it work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179811&d=1676167096

It's going to be more that 3/4". The slip joint at the trans will have some amount exposed. Not tight against the seal (be careful with that). You don't want it too long or you'll have difficulty getting it installed without taking stuff apart. Which shouldn't be necessary. Plus with your solid axle there will be some movement at the slip joint. Google how to measure for a driveshaft with a slip joint. There are plenty of how-to's. Or maybe the shop that shortens it will provide instructions to get the right length.

[MB750]

It's going to be more that 3/4". The slip joint at the trans will have some amount exposed. Not tight against the seal (be careful with that). You don't want it too long or you'll have difficulty getting it installed without taking stuff apart. Which shouldn't be necessary. Plus with your solid axle there will be some movement at the slip joint. Google how to measure for a driveshaft with a slip joint. There are plenty of how-to's. Or maybe the shop that shortens it will provide instructions to get the right length.

Good points. There's a drawing from FFR floating around that says my combo should have a driveshaft that's 10.375" (compared to the Fox Body driveshaft of 11"). See here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179821&d=1676203519

It's grainy, but if you zoom in you can see the values. Per your suggestion what I'll do is remove the driveshaft and measure the distance from a consistent point on the pinion flange to the trans output shaft with the axle at full slack, then remove the shocks and jack the axle all the way up and measure again. This will tell me the "take-up" during suspension travel. When I know the absolute tightest that distance will be, then I'll back out the math to get my new driveshaft length, based on accepted clearances of course. According to Motortrend, 1" of slip yolk travel from the tightest position is the number.

[Jeff Kleiner]

No dice. Gotta take off about 3/4" to make it work.



Sorry…told ya’….make it a full inch.

Jeff

[MB750]

Just sharing a pic I gathered while searching for E-brake options. This picture comes from the FFR manual:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179834&d=1676216142

I'm not saying this is correct, but there can't be more than 1" of contact between the output shaft and the slip yolk.

[MB750]

Two-month Anniversary of my delivery and I got a nice haul of POL stuff from FFR. All that's left from them is:

Nameplate
Certificate of Origin
5 pt. harnesses
E-brake handle fastener pack
5 feet of 3/8" coolant hose
Black e-brake boot
Inertia switch

[MB750]

Wheels powder coated by a local fella who's big in the hot-rod and motorcycle scene here in Tampa. I wanted something bronze, and he talked me into Cherokee Bronze by Prismatic Powders:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180411&d=1677079800

They REALLY pop in the sun, and I think it's gonna look outstanding under my metallic British Racing Green body. I also spooned on the tires, which are nothing special. I figure since I'll be breaking in the car for a few thousand miles why spend a lot on Nitto or Toyo tires.

And (for the 3rd time.....) I worked on the fuel lines. -6AN PTFE lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180412&d=1677079800

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180413&d=1677079800

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180414&d=1677079800

Haven't set the regulator yet but you get the idea:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180415&d=1677079800

Also, since most of my supplied fuel is coming home on the return line I didn't want the OEM style Fox Body fuel tank pickup. That return necks down to a 1/4", and the return is raised above the fuel level which aerates the fuel around the pickup sock, causing air bubbles in the line. This pickup from ProM Racing has a -6AN feed and return, and the return discharges down more towards the bottom of the tank to prevent cavitation:

https://www.promracing.com/high-flow-fuel-pump-hanger-for-1986-1997-mustangs.html

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180416&d=1677079813

[Blitzboy54]

Those wheels are sexy. I think your right, it's really going to pop against the green.

[mladen]

Damn, that's a good looking wheel!

[MB750]

Thanks fellas. This guy got a customer for life. He's a fireman by trade but a powdercoater by hobby and side gig. He showed me his portfolio and what he's working on in his shop and I was sold. He did someone's Harley bagger frame this same color as mine so I had a good idea what I'd be getting. He also did the high gloss finish coat over the color as well for extra protection.

He's called "Signal 7 Hot Rod Shop" here in the Tampa area:

https://www.instagram.com/signal_7_rods/?hl=en

[MB750]

Switching gears (no pun) to the transmission, I got a hydraulic clutch slave cylinder and adapter plate from Daze Cars. He makes slave cylinder adapters for the T5 transmissions, amongst other stuff, for retrofit applications. Fortunately, he specifically makes a kit for the ******* child years of the 94-95 Mustang. I couldn't make anything close to this nice:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180469&d=1677156083

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180470&d=1677156083

Since the slave cylinder is SAE, I need to source a 7/16x20 thread banjo bolt, or an 3AN adapter to get my clutch hose onto it.

Got this guy mounted. I made a steel angle bracket for the other side of the firewall so it's very rigid:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180471&d=1677156083


And I got started on this debacle:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180472&d=1677156083

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180473&d=1677156083

That special vise clamp used to be perfect for making motorcycle exhausts. Now it's perfect for holding my driveshaft straight for welding.

[MB750]

Got out the TIG yesterday and made quick work of this driveshaft. Now we're in good shape:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180820&d=1677419073

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180821&d=1677419073

I also welded a couple supporting braces over the main bead, just for extra measure. I'm not a professional welder, but I can TIG metal together. Butt welds don't give me the most confidence, so I added these on each side just to help me sleep at night. I'm also going to have it balanced locally anyway.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180822&d=1677419453

[Mike.Bray]

Good call on the balancing.

Just FYI, it's not difficult to build a driveshaft. You can buy new yokes from Spicer for not a lot of money and a piece of tubing from McMaster. Clamp the yokes in the tube and align them on a flat steel plate, ready to weld.

[MB750]

Good call on the balancing.

Just FYI, it's not difficult to build a driveshaft. You can buy new yokes from Spicer for not a lot of money and a piece of tubing from McMaster. Clamp the yokes in the tube and align them on a flat steel plate, ready to weld.

Yea I watched a few videos online about it, and you're correct it does look rather simple. I even thought of trying to cut mine at the weld bead to keep the tubing clean but I didn't want to deal with turning it into hamburger on accident so I just cut the inch out of the middle.

[MB750]

I think I can now safely say the fuel system is now complete:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180951&d=1677675161

I bought a 6AN fitting for my Edelbrock carb from Jegs. It comes with a normal hose barb. This way I could run the PTFE the whole way.

[MB750]

February -

Engine, trans, and driveshaft installed
Wheels powder coated
Tires installed
Wiring harness laid out in chassis, terminations where applicable
New -6AN fuel lines
Install POL items in fuel tank (assuming I actually get these items...)
Finish and bleed brakes (again, POL items pending...)
Finish aluminum panels in back half of car

Well, didn't get as far as I'd planned for February. Never got to the wiring harness, didn't get to the brakes (need to paint front calipers), and didn't install the trunk aluminum. Here's the progress video:


https://youtu.be/1gNtPhPaT1E

[MB750]

This pleases me. :cool:


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181201&d=1678198408

[Fman]

Nice work, smart move going with PTFE fuel lines. Brembo calipers look great.

[MB750]

Quick note on the caliper painting:

Basically you've got two options for caliper paint. VHT comes in a rattle can, and POR-15 comes in a small normal paint can. I've read enough accounts on the POR being a little too "orangey" so I didn't want to waste my money doing my own trial. I've used the VHT before but the nozzle on their spray cans is awful! I've gotten chunks and blobs, and erratic patterns just holding down the nozzle and sweeping across the work. So basically, I "fixed the glitch...." my way.

I fixed the can upside down under the tow hitch of my truck outside so the weight of the truck held the nozzle down. Being upside down, this purged all the propellant. Then I cut the nozzle off, pried the top of the can open, and poured the paint into a clean cup. Now I could use that paint in my HVLP touch-up gun. It was already thin enough so I didn't have to add any mineral spirits. This way I was in complete control how thick or thin the layers could be applied.

VHT likes you to apply two thin layers at first, then the last layer can be thicker. Using my touch-up gun made really nice work of those thin layers by adjusting the flow of air and paint.

I masked off the whole inside of the caliper and much of the back. I hate how painted bolts look. It looks funny if you examine the entire caliper, but when the wheel is installed you can't tell the difference.

[MB750]

Relocated reservoirs:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181276&d=1678286282

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181277&d=1678286282

[MB750]

Removed all my shocks just to check the damping setting:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181390&d=1678489880

Confirmed, all on the softest setting right from Koni.

I also noticed a little red pool under the trans... :mad::mad::mad:

I really hope that's just some creeping out because I didn't have the driveshaft installed.

[edwardb]

I also noticed a little red pool under the trans... I really hope that's just some creeping out because I didn't have the driveshaft installed.

Yes, trans fluid will leak without the driveshaft. Even sitting level. Really gets interesting if you have much in there when installing the engine/trans.

[MB750]

Yes, trans fluid will leak without the driveshaft. Even sitting level. Really gets interesting if you have much in there when installing the engine/trans.

Yeaaaaa, that's what happened when I removed everything from the 95. I was a little ham-fisted and either just cut everything or pulled bolts and yanked it out, and completely ignored the driveshaft. I said, "it'll slide out..." Yea, it did. Half a box of kitty litter later I got the mess cleaned up too.

[MB750]

Got started on the wiring harness last week as well. Laying it all out definitely looks ominous:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181395&d=1678548172

But the plug-n-play nature of most of it makes it really simplified.

The one thing I was mostly annoyed by is the Chassis Wiring Manual going through the pictures show main harness (the fuse box part) being done with no steering stem or master cylinders installed yet! Well WTF?!?!?! So, I fed the wire end of that harness up through the "hole" where the fuse panel goes. Yea, kind of a PITA but I got it. WAYYY more logical than shoving a fuse box with the aluminum trim installed around the steering stem and through hard brake lines:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181396&d=1678548172

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181397&d=1678548172

I think I'm going to rivet some angle aluminum up a few inches over the 2x2 chassis tubing so I've got somewhere to ziptie the harness. I don't want it just hanging around behind the dash. I'll also be mounting some more integrity for the mechanical throttle linkage.

[MB750]

Great News! I don't have a transmission leak!

Turns out the slight pitch of my garage floor is what initiated the leak. I recently turned the car around so I could work more in the shade (setting sun and garage door faces west), which pointed the tailshaft out the garage. With a slight downward slope it must have been just enough to start trickling out. A few days ago I turned the car back around and after cleaning up the mess put some white paper towel down. As of today, no red stains!

Phew, that was a close one.

[MB750]

Four hours of drilling holes and driving rivets, my back is killing me. Made some good progress though:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181481&d=1678665725

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181482&d=1678665725

For the life of me, I could NOT figure out how to get the license plate wiring up to the cross member without modifying a panel. The wiring instructions and accompanying pics showed everything run without aluminum in place. And in the main assembly manual showed the wiring routed right where panels were going to be. Regardless...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181483&d=1678665725

[MB750]

And yes, I ran the license plate harness up the wrong side. Another confusing aspect was the manual telling me the "Y" in the rear harness needs to reach the "V" in the chassis tubing at the back of the trunk. Ok, well, which "Y"? There's four "Y's" in the rear harness!

I couldn't see an issue, and since the passenger side tail light was longer than the driver's side, that's where my logic sent me. Hopefully I didn't burn myself.

[Mike.Bray]

And yes, I ran the license plate harness up the wrong side. Another confusing aspect was the manual telling me the "Y" in the rear harness needs to reach the "V" in the chassis tubing at the back of the trunk. Ok, well, which "Y"? There's four "Y's" in the rear harness!

I couldn't see an issue, and since the passenger side tail light was longer than the driver's side, that's where my logic sent me. Hopefully I didn't burn myself.

I ran mine up the DS as I had to clear my electric e-stop unit. Everything reached and worked fine.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20221230113540mediumrotated.jpg

[MB750]

I feel like I've driven 500 rivets in the last two days but look at the progress!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181550&d=1678746138

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181551&d=1678746138

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181552&d=1678746138

[Fman]

Nice work! hopefully you are using a pneumatic or electric rivet gun.

and good call on the double noggin savers! your passenger will definitely appreciate the roll bar.

[MB750]

Nice work! hopefully you are using a pneumatic or electric rivet gun.

and good call on the double noggin savers! your passenger will definitely appreciate the roll bar.

LOL, nope. My forearms are killing me too.

And my passenger will mostly be my wife. She's a bit of a safety hound and pretty much required it. I figured get both, and remove the passenger one (put blanks in the body) if I ever wanna go single.

[Fman]

LOL, nope. My forearms are killing me too.

And my passenger will mostly be my wife. She's a bit of a safety hound and pretty much required it. I figured get both, and remove the passenger one (put blanks in the body) if I ever wanna go single.

Oh man, old school manual! Wow, yea that is a workout... I was also in the same boat with my wife and having a roll bar for her. If the unthinkable ever happened (god forbid) your passenger would more than likely not end up being in a good situation. Most people don't realize you can't even duck down with a four point harness on.

[Jeff Kleiner]

LOL, nope. My forearms are killing me too.



Same! After doing a few dozen cars my hands finally had enough and I had double carpal tunnel surgery last year. I had a pneumatic years ago and didn’t like it so am back to the manual now but am thinking I’ll go to one of the Milwaukee battery riveters before the next full build. If I undo my hand surgeon’s work he and my wife will both kick my azz :D

Jeff

[egchewy79]

Jeff, one good thing about carpal tunnel surgery is that you’ll never need it again. Squeeze away

[Jeff Kleiner]

I did not know that Eugene!

Jeff

[MB750]

I put the radiator on upside down didn't I?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181683&d=1679085713

[Jeff Kleiner]

I put the radiator on upside down didn't I?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181683&d=1679085713

Yes you did. If you were building a Coupe though that would be right side up :p

And a piece of unsolicited advise…especially since you’re in Florida…use a shroud.

Jeff

[John Ibele]

Well, okay, you did that with the radiator, but that's easily fixed, and you should still be able to bask in the glow of this:


I feel like I've driven 500 rivets in the last two days but look at the progress!

Look at Popeye go! Nice progress!

[MB750]

My right forearm is still a little sore.

[i.e.427]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181683&d=1679085713

Radiators do NOT like being fixed mounted like F5R suggests in the manual. If you aren't going to use the hinged upper mount, find a way to allow the rad to expand and contract seperately from the chassis.

Frank

[MB750]

Radiators do NOT like being fixed mounted like F5R suggests in the manual. If you aren't going to use the hinged upper mount, find a way to allow the rad to expand and contract seperately from the chassis.

Frank

Thanks for the tip Frank. You know, now that you mention it, I haven't seen many rigid mounted radiators on any other vehicles before. Mostly motorcycles and motorsports toys, but they're all rubber isolated from the frame.

[MB750]

Of all the pics of FFR Cobras I've seen I just don't like the height of the FFR roll bars. So, I modified mine. 3" drop. I like how they came out:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181727&d=1679179793

I wanted to keep the bends below the level of the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181728&d=1679179793

Mission accomplished!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181729&d=1679179793

They still slide up and down just like before

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181730&d=1679179793

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181731&d=1679179793

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181732&d=1679179828

Still need to clean up the welds and paint though, but the fab work is done.

[MB750]

Also whipped up an upper radiator hose (minus the tube, I need to buy a bead roller):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181733&d=1679179828

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just throwing this out here for ya' if you're interested...

For less than the cost of a bead roller you can do the upper by buying a 5.0 liter Fox Mustang hose and cutting it as I show here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181735&d=1675285687

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181736&d=1675285634

Cheers,
Jeff

[i.e.427]

Of all the pics of FFR Cobras I've seen I just don't like the height of the FFR roll bars. So, I modified mine. 3" drop. I like how they came out:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181727&d=1679179793


Mission accomplished!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181729&d=1679179793

They still slide up and down just like before

Still need to clean up the welds and paint though, but the fab work is done.

Please re-address those roll bars. You have essentially made the rear bars useless. They will fold like a cheap suit if ever put to a test.

This is how we lowered the bars on a recent build. And keep in mind at 6' - 2" I would not feel comforable driving this car since my head is higher than the roll bar.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181743&d=1679203405

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181742&d=1679203405

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181741&d=1679203405

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181740&d=1679203405

[i.e.427]

Welded before paint.

Hose clamp just holds it up for fitment.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181744&d=1679203405

Painted.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181747&d=1679203451

Finished and fit in trunk. Notice the triangular gussets.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181748&d=1679203451

Roll bar finish mounted on completed customer car. 2.5" lower then stock.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181749&d=1679204351

[MB750]

Thanks for the suggestion Frank. My logic behind this design was so that I could still slide the rear support bar through the body grommet. I thought about that plate/offset tubing design you used but figured I wouldn't be able to slide it through the grommet. When I ran my design change through CAD most of the load still transfers thru, but the added gusset would definitely take things over the top.

Regardless, it's easy to add a gusset to mine. I've got steel lying around, and the TIG is still set up, consider it done.

Also, I'm only 5'8" and right now the top of the hoop is even with my head. I know it doesn't pass the broomstick test. My mindset is weighing the averages. I'm thinking about how I'll feel looking at the Cobra I completely built and what would stand out as annoying, in comparison to how many times I've flipped a car over. Division by zero equals infinity so I cut the bars down. Considering how many things about our Cobra's aren't even remotely safe, I didn't see the point in completely factoring in the scant chances of flipping my car over when being rear ended or T-boned is substantially more likely.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I wasn’t going to comment on the roll bar, and still won’t other than to to say that the trim grommet simply slides over from the top on the straight portion, not around the lower “S”.

Jeff

[egchewy79]

How do you get that angled bracket through the body cut out? Would it be easier to weld a new mount in the trunk?

[MB750]

How do you get that angled bracket through the body cut out? Would it be easier to weld a new mount in the trunk?

Are you asking me, or Frank?

If you're asking me, it'll slide through the open cutout in the body, then the grommet slides over from the top. Even after I add a gusset, the rear cutout is oval.

If you're asking Frank, his adapter is a separate offset piece that installs on the frame mount inside the trunk, then the existing tube slides over from the top.

I thought about cutting the existing mount off the frame and re-welding it back on a few inches forward, and then cutting the rear tube down but leaving it straight. But then I had the trunk panels riveted down and that ship had sailed. I also didn't want to mess with the powder coating on the frame. Messing with it on a much smaller roll bar support tube was less invasive.

[Jeff Kleiner]

How do you get that angled bracket through the body cut out? Would it be easier to weld a new mount in the trunk?

If you’re asking about Frank’s offset mount it goes on the roll bar stub on the chassis and then the rear tube passes through the body to meet it.

Jeff

[MB750]

I wasn’t going to comment on the roll bar, and still won’t other than to to say that the trim grommet simply slides over from the top on the straight portion, not around the lower “S”.

Jeff

Personally, I would appreciate your comment. I take contrasting information constructively even if it's in opposition to my decided path. So many other people have built more Cobra's than I have, I like to learn from their experience.

[egchewy79]

If you’re asking about Frank’s offset mount it goes on the roll bar stub on the chassis and then the rear tube passes through the body to meet it.

Jeff
Gotcha. I thought it looked like the angled down tube was welded to the adapter.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Personally, I would appreciate your comment. I take contrasting information constructively even if it's in opposition to my decided path. So many other people have built more Cobra's than I have, I like to learn from their experience.

Well, you asked...I have the same concerns as Frank. You have introduced 2 mitered joints which if they fail under compression (which is what would happen in a rollover) will become hinges and fold up. The FFR design as well as Frank's have the rear leg in a dead stop in compression with no built in points of failure. I do tech inspections with the local SCCA region. While this wouldn't be a concern for autocross since rollover protection is not required for open vehicles if your setup was presented at a track event it would likely raise eyebrows and potentially not be allowed. Kind of a moot point anyway because you'd be excused since the lowered bars would not be above a helmeted head. Just think of them as "style bars" and not "roll bars" ;)

As an aside regarding the height of the FFR bars. Remember, the company name is Factory Five Racing. The height was established waaaay back so that sufficient protection was provided for most seated and helmeted drivers (I suspect based on Mark Smith's height since he's rather tall). Contrary to
what is sometimes believed the top of the Mk4 roll bar is exactly the same height above the cockpit floor as they were on the Mk1, 2 and 3. An optical illusion is at play since the body's rear deck was lowered on the Mk4 to eliminate the "perky butt" and the bars are 1.5" diameter rather than 2".

Jeff (a guy who's been upside down twice)

[MB750]

Well, you asked...I have the same concerns as Frank. You have introduced 2 mitered joints which if they fail under compression (which is what would happen in a rollover) will become hinges and fold up. The FFR design as well as Frank's have the rear leg in a dead stop in compression with no built in points of failure. I do tech inspections with the local SCCA region. While this wouldn't be a concern for autocross since rollover protection is not required for open vehicles if your setup was presented at a track event it would likely raise eyebrows and potentially not be allowed. Kind of a moot point anyway because you'd be excused since the lowered bars would not be above a helmeted head. Just think of them as "style bars" and not "roll bars" ;)

As an aside regarding the height of the FFR bars. Remember, the company name is Factory Five Racing. The height was established waaaay back so that sufficient protection was provided for most seated and helmeted drivers (I suspect based on Mark Smith's height since he's rather tall). Contrary to
what is sometimes believed the top of the Mk4 roll bar is exactly the same height above the cockpit floor as they were on the Mk1, 2 and 3. An optical illusion is at play since the body's rear deck was lowered on the Mk4 to eliminate the "perky butt" and the bars are 1.5" diameter rather than 2".

Jeff (a guy who's been upside down twice)

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate the input. It's obvious a straight leg from the top of the hoop to the frame is maximum strength. Anything less than that compromises the integrity. What I'm trying to do is minimize the impact of the compromise.

Yes, I'm sold on adding a gusset. I really do like Frank's design, I just don't have any 1.25" steel tube lying around to slide the rear leg into. But I'm also not in a hurry so I could gather something throughout the week. I think I'll go that route.

I figured they were tall for multiple reasons, one specifically being to accommodate the racing circuit, but also for taller people. I'm neither, so the height bugged me. It just looks out of proportion to the OG Cobra's out there.

[edwardb]

Speaking of beads, I needed to add one on the lower aluminum radiator hose on my truck build. Found this YouTube hack and worked fine without a big investment. I suspect only good for aluminum. https://youtu.be/CGiunb8beDA. I didn't use the tool he suggested. I used this one from Harbor Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/9-12-in-wire-crimping-tool-63989.html. I also found it worked fine without cutting the nose off like shown in the video. I went around the tube a couple times and resulted in a reasonably smooth bead.

[i.e.427]

How do you get that angled bracket through the body cut out? Would it be easier to weld a new mount in the trunk?

The adapter we made is placed on the factory mount in the trunk. As far as it being easier to weld a new mount in the trunk................. you've never built one of these for customers. They spring things like this on you at the damnedest times. Like when the the car body is at the painters and the trunk aluminum is already instaled. So how much do you strip back down to weld it in? This was a compromise. As I stated earlier. I prefer the roll bar to be able to do it's job as intended. Bottom line is, these are not our cars. Customers want what they want. And we do everything we can to satify their wants.

Frank

[MB750]

Since I'm removing the radiator to install the Breeze components I shifted gears to the cooling overflow tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181788&d=1679263798

Top mount is on the frame rail, bottom just goes into the F-panel with 5/16" washers as spacers. I had to use my own 1/4" allen bolts since the ones from the FFR kit were too short.

I also removed that E-brake frame mount stuff and fab'd this up:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181789&d=1679263798

[MB750]

So when can I finally rivet the top of that aluminum panel at the sides of the transmission tunnel? The manual says not to rivet them for some reason and they haven't circled back yet.

[MB750]

Speaking of beads, I needed to add one on the lower aluminum radiator hose on my truck build. Found this YouTube hack and worked fine without a big investment. I suspect only good for aluminum. https://youtu.be/CGiunb8beDA. I didn't use the tool he suggested. I used this one from Harbor Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/9-12-in-wire-crimping-tool-63989.html. I also found it worked fine without cutting the nose off like shown in the video. I went around the tube a couple times and resulted in a reasonably smooth bead.

YES! That's what kicked me off down that road. There's also the $500 option with the motor and stuff, if you really roll a lot of beads.

I bought the $100 one that Frank showed in one of his videos. You clamp the whole works in a vise and it'll roll anything down to 1" tubing. This is what I wanted. Many of the other ones used special sized dies. Typically I don't go for single-use tools but rolling beads is an exception.

https://www.amazon.com/Hiwowsport-Tubing-Beader-Roller-Intercooler/dp/B077NL46Y3?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2VX4I7IQUG2AZ

[Jeff Kleiner]

Since I'm removing the radiator to install the Breeze components I shifted gears to the cooling overflow tank.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181788&d=1679263798



Sorry, but I think you’re going to have another “do-over” there. Pretty sure that you’ll find that the gas strut for the hood is going to hit the top of the tank as it is. Move it down so that the top is about an inch below the bottom of the square tube and it’ll be OK.

Always good to plan a few steps ahead of where you are ��

Jeff

[MB750]

Ughhhhhhh.........

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181825&d=1679310564

Oh well, easy fix. Thanks for the head's up Jeff.

[JeffP]

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate the input. It's obvious a straight leg from the top of the hoop to the frame is maximum strength. Anything less than that compromises the integrity. What I'm trying to do is minimize the impact of the compromise.

Yes, I'm sold on adding a gusset. I really do like Frank's design, I just don't have any 1.25" steel tube lying around to slide the rear leg into. But I'm also not in a hurry so I could gather something throughout the week. I think I'll go that route.

I figured they were tall for multiple reasons, one specifically being to accommodate the racing circuit, but also for taller people. I'm neither, so the height bugged me. It just looks out of proportion to the OG Cobra's out there.

Or just get the breeze bars.

[egchewy79]

So when can I finally rivet the top of that aluminum panel at the sides of the transmission tunnel? The manual says not to rivet them for some reason and they haven't circled back yet.

are you making your tunnel top removable? do you have all the rear harness wiring run through the tunnel? are you putting additional wiring in the tunnel (seat heaters, additional trunk lights, speaker wiring)? putting in cupholders?
I'd save it until the end. There's likely more to do before that.

[MB750]

are you making your tunnel top removable? do you have all the rear harness wiring run through the tunnel? are you putting additional wiring in the tunnel (seat heaters, additional trunk lights, speaker wiring)? putting in cupholders?
I'd save it until the end. There's likely more to do before that.

are you making your tunnel top removable? Yes, for certain. I like that feature, mainly for maintenance and repair purposes, and future adders.

do you have all the rear harness wiring run through the tunnel? Yes, that's run. Parking brake still pending though, and I'm moving that to the top of the tunnel on the drivers side.

are you putting additional wiring in the tunnel (seat heaters, additional trunk lights, speaker wiring)? Seat heaters are planned eventually, but probably down the road.

putting in cupholders? More than likely not.

I did buy the center dash support, but may not install it due to the top tunnel panel needing permanent installation.

[MB750]

I am pretty sure they sent me the wrong J-pipes. The outlet flange points more towards the ground than it does out the side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181940&d=1679577128

And the flange is a circular output, not the divided four smaller tubes like on the side pipes. The other one is exactly the same, just about an inch longer.

[MB750]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181941&d=1679577500

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181942&d=1679577500

[MB750]

I like the oxygen sensor bungs though, now I don't have to weld in my own.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I am pretty sure they sent me the wrong J-pipes. The outlet flange points more towards the ground than it does out the side:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181940&d=1679577128

And the flange is a circular output, not the divided four smaller tubes like on the side pipes. The other one is exactly the same, just about an inch longer.


Those are the correct ones. Once the sidepipes are mated to them you'll twist, turn and rotate around the ball flange at the shorty header to get them to exit the body (be prepared to do some trimming to the cutout). And yes, the flange is round with a blunt and restrictive transition to the 4 tubes at the collector.

Jeff

[MB750]

Those are the correct ones. Once the sidepipes are mated to them you'll twist, turn and rotate around the ball flange at the shorty header to get them to exit the body (be prepared to do some trimming to the cutout). And yes, the flange is round with a blunt and restrictive transition to the 4 tubes at the collector.

Jeff

Thanks for confirming Jeff. I'm curious to see what kind of angle is at the ball flange once everything's lined up. That outlet flange looks WAYYY off.

Fortunately for me I'm going with a custom under car exhaust from Spintech so they'll work regardless.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Once you have the sidepipes and Js in their final location (which you can't do until the body position is finalized with the sidepipes adjusted) I suggest that you make a front hanger to supplement the sidepipe's rear hanger. Because of the weight and leverage the J pipes tend to move and rotate on the header's ball flange and the sidepipes end up drooping at the front. Here's a couple of photos of how I do it using a rubber donut exhaust hanger along with a turnbuckle and a few bucks worth of hardware.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181943&d=1679580697

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181945&d=1679580735

Cheers,
Jeff

[MB750]

Headers installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181946&d=1679580881

Drivers side with oil dipstick:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181947&d=1679580881

And yes, I remembered the RTV:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181948&d=1679580881

Thank ARP for the header bolts. 5/16" hex is much easier than the 3/8" that came on the car. They're also super hard. I think they're made from black diamonds or something.

[MB750]

Once you have the sidepipes and Js in their final location (which you can't do until the body position is finalized with the sidepipes adjusted) I suggest that you make a front hanger to supplement the sidepipe's rear hanger. Because of the weight and leverage the J pipes tend to move and rotate on the header's ball flange and the sidepipes end up drooping at the front. Here's a couple of photos of how I do it using a rubber donut exhaust hanger along with a turnbuckle and a few bucks worth of hardware.
Cheers,
Jeff

Ah, so they are supposed to angle down a bit. I made an assumption they were supposed to face straight out. Thanks Jeff.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thanks for confirming Jeff. I'm curious to see what kind of angle is at the ball flange once everything's lined up. That outlet flange looks WAYYY off.

Fortunately for me I'm going with a custom under car exhaust from Spintech so they'll work regardless.

Oh well, in that case nevermind...there was no reason for this conversation. You won't use the J-pipes and where they point is moot.

Jeff

[MB750]

Oh well, in that case nevermind...there was no reason for this conversation. You won't use the J-pipes and where they point is moot.

Jeff
Well, I should said I'm planning on the custom exhaust. I have the side pipes, just haven't made up my mind yet. Conversation not wasted, I appreciate the info.

[egchewy79]

This is how my DS looked. As Jeff said, you can rotate that ball joint a bit to adjust pipe angle181967

[MB750]

Yup, I see what y'all are talking about now. I did a mock up for fun (I know that's the DS side pipe):

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181987&d=1679603635

Not a fan of the mating surface though... Jeff, you were NOT kidding.

Gasket check - side pipe:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181985&d=1679603635

J-pipe:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181986&d=1679603635

[egchewy79]

Can you cut out the center of the gasket?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Can you cut out the center of the gasket?

That won't do anything; the obstruction will still be in the pipes.

Jeff

[MB750]

Well this sucks, my dash vinyl is dented:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182005&d=1679614030

They tossed the glove box hardware in there with it in the same box. The dash must have been resting on it this whole time.

[MB750]

And it's cracked at the glove box flange:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182006&d=1679615307

The crack isn't a big deal since the glove box would hold it together, but the dented vinyl is front and center.

[MB750]

Completely rubber isolated radiator:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182085&d=1679864119

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182087&d=1679864139

I used the side panels to mock up this location per Frank's video.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182084&d=1679864119

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182082&d=1679864119

[MB750]

My shop buddy helping:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182088&d=1679864139

That rubber sleeve isn't a junction, I just slid it down the tubing so there would be some vibration isolation from the frame.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182089&d=1679864139

I also sourced these silicone plugs from some hot-rod outfit on the internet. These are NOT those cheap plugs from the "Fix-It" section of Autozone:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182086&d=1679864119

And I "Klinerized" my backside:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182090&d=1679864139

Yes, I had to drop the tank to get the lower passenger side.

[MB750]

Breeze battery box installed:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182282&d=1680261009

That thing is a tank! I bet I could jack my car up from it.

Not a fan of installing 3/16" stainless steel rivets though. I think I got more of a forearm workout from those five rivets than I did doing the entire trunk in 1/8" aluminum rivets. I can see the necessity though, that box will never move.

[MB750]

March 2023 Progress video:

https://youtu.be/aa_0hzW5KgM


https://youtu.be/aa_0hzW5KgM

[egchewy79]

Not a fan of installing 3/16" stainless steel rivets though. I think I got more of a forearm workout from those five rivets than I did doing the entire trunk in 1/8" aluminum rivets. I can see the necessity though, that box will never move..

Unless your car rolls off the jack and the entire weight goes on the bottom of the battery box...then it'll move. Ask me how I know.
those SS rivets are no joke. nearly gave myself an aneurysm/hernia trying to hand pop those.

[John Ibele]

I actually did the first one, and thought I was permanently broken ... full sweat, had to sit down, the whole deal. Bought my pneumatic gun for the remaining 4 and haven't looked back :)

[robmccon]

What type of headers are those?

[MB750]

What type of headers are those?

Uhhhhhhhh.............. Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll......

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374183436531

:o Like I said, nothing special. I certainly got what I paid for too, had to bust out the die grinder for a few of the bolt holes.

[MB750]

Slight progress on the car. I've been working specifically on the carbon fiber dash mostly, which will be a separate line of pics once it's done.

Had a small brake fluid leak. Turned out the cast surface of the caliper was the issue. Finding a brake fluid leak on painted and clean calipers is a pain since the fluid doesn't leave much of a trackable trail. It just left a small drip at the lowest point. All the paint was shiny so the fluid didn't really jump out. Regardless, filed that surface down and now it's tight:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182742&d=1681081284

Also put the Breeze fan shroud on:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182743&d=1681081284

[MB750]

April Progress video:


https://youtu.be/INiluHfY5ZQ

[MB750]

Wins and losses here this weekend.

Wins - The carbon fiber dash skinning is really coming along nicely. I'll create a separate section of postings for that. Basically I'm skinning the vinyl dash in CF. I also got 12VDC going around the car. Through the key, and down to the starter solenoid. Which brings us to the losses...

Losses - Wired up clutch switch (clutch pressed to allow starter to crank), hit the key...... SCRATCH-CLANK-GRIND!!!!!! Turn the engine manually about 90 degrees, try again....... SCRATCH-CLANK-GRIND!!!!!! One more turn on the crank, try again...... SCRATCH-CLANK-GRIND!!!!!! Ugh.....

Crap, I knew I should have swapped out that flywheel when I had the chance. Placed an order with Rockauto, got a flywheel, starter, and upgraded hi-torque clutch kit on the way. Typically I don't follow the "while you're in there..." camp but this would have been a good place to start. I just wanted to try using as much from the donor powertrain as possible. Oh well, live and learn. Today I'll start pulling the trans.

[MB750]

GOT IT!!!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184146&d=1683476175

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184147&d=1683476175

Wow, I do NOT envy whoever has to put all that back in place.

For the record, you can not rotate the T5 90 degrees and move it back.

[MB750]

I honestly did not think these teeth were bad enough to cause this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184149&d=1683488460

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184150&d=1683488460