Danny Boy's Mk4 Build - Putting the project on hold for a while...

[facultyofmusic]

I remember staring at pictures of tail lights and couldn't figure out why it looks weird. Took me long enough to realize that there's no back up lights. Duh.

The unfortunate part was that I already had the rear-harness secures in place as well as the trunk riveted in. As a result I had to work with what little slack I had in the harness to insert another wire into the harness for a backup light. It how pops out from the back of the vehicle in the middle. Wasn't too difficult.
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I did make a mistake when soldering though. Can you tell what's wrong in this picture? :p
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Since I was already working in the area, I decided to splice out the rear turn and brake signals out for a third brake / turn light. The spliced connections pops out through a hole on the upper trunk aluminum panel. I'm not too sure about what the third brake light will look like, but it won't be anything conventional. What I actually want is a huge detachable light bar that I can mount to the top of my roll-bars to let other SUVs and trunks know that there's a car in front of them / behind them. I've heard too many stories of people not seeing short roadsters. Just something for the longer trips I'll make in the future. Won't be too useful in the near future, but routing it now doesn't hurt.
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Last but not least I bought some spade connectors for the ignition panel. I really wanted to use weatherpack connectors, but the ignition panel wires carry quite a lot of current and I didn't want all that going through weatherpack connectors. weatherpack says it can handle up to 20A, but I'd rather use larger spade connectors for these big wires.
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As far as the harness goes this should be all for now? (I swear I've said this ten times and every time I come back with something else I forgot, lol)

Next I'll start working on coyote engine prep as well as the dashboard. I've pretty much finalized the dashboard design but I want to stare at it a bit more to make sure I didn't forget anything.
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[facultyofmusic]

After a long trip to LA it's finally time to get back to the project! I'll talk about some cobra related adventures in LA later. For now let's talk about Dashboard Gauges.

In the last post I showed the cut outs for various gauges and buttons. I don't plan to have much stuff on the dash aside from the basic light switch, horn, and hazard indicators. Keeping it simple with this one. I do have an ignition control panel full of toggle switches that will sit right under the center of the dash, so the dash itself can be simple. I used the FFR provided faux-leather foam fabric. Sprayed two good layers of 3M Super77 adhesive onto the faux-leather material and stuck it on real good.
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Clamped it on the table and left it there for a night to dry. I find Super77 adhesive not sticking too well to aluminum, but it's good enough for the dash. Next I needed to cut out the holes for the dashboard components. I found it difficult to use a utility knife for anything except the tach and speedo holes. Stopped by the local convenience store and bought these small curved scissors. They worked pretty well.
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Something I wish I realized while cutting the dash was that the black faux leather surface compresses and curves towards the dash as the gauges are pressed in. I wish I had left a little extra material for the gauges to "stuff down". It wasn't a big deal because if I install the gauges exactly center then the gauge's rim will sit on the faux leather evenly. Even if the curve wasn't super consistent it's very hard to tell unless you look at it from awkward angles:
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I'm particularly happy about the indicator lights. They match the rest of the dash so well! They are Alpinetech chrome-bezel indicator lights. I ordered it from their store on amazon.
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... and here's the whole dash! I was afraid the hazard indicator light would stick out like a sore thumb, but it actually looks pretty good! It's not period correct at all, but I wasn't going for that anyway. The glove box is a problem for future Dan to solve. I have some ideas on how to fab one with left-over aluminum panels I have laying around.
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After admiring them for a while I used blue scotch tape to tape the gauge bezels so they don't get scuffed up when I move it around.
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[facultyofmusic]

During my visit to LA I stopped by the Segerstrom Shelby Event Center (https://segerstromshelbyeventcenter.com/pages/your-visit#calendar) which served as a museum for Shelby's legacy. It's right next to Hillbank Motor's Superformance show rooom.
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They had an entire show room just for cobras! I felt like a kid in a candy store... must've walked around each one ten times or more. To be respectful I didn't take many pictures (not that they prohibit it, but I don't want to steal their thunder), but I didn't manage to bring home a few.
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At the center of the room is a mirror polished aluminum body cobra. It's... the most beautiful thing. I couldn't help it when I saw a Shelby jacket in their giftshop. Grabbed it and bought it in a heart beat. My favourite picture from the visit is this one:
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You can bet that I sat there for quite a while. :P

[JB in NOVA]

During my visit to LA I stopped by the Segerstrom Shelby Event Center (https://segerstromshelbyeventcenter.com/pages/your-visit#calendar) which served as a museum for Shelby's legacy. It's right next to Hillbank Motor's Superformance show rooom.
166613

They had an entire show room just for cobras! I felt like a kid in a candy store... must've walked around each one ten times or more. To be respectful I didn't take many pictures (not that they prohibit it, but I don't want to steal their thunder), but I didn't manage to bring home a few.
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At the center of the room is a mirror polished aluminum body cobra. It's... the most beautiful thing. I couldn't help it when I saw a Shelby jacket in their giftshop. Grabbed it and bought it in a heart beat. My favourite picture from the visit is this one:
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You can bet that I sat there for quite a while. :P

Thanks for posting those pics! I'll have to check that out next time I'm in L.A. I've been meaning to visit the Petersen museum, https://www.petersen.org/, and now I'll add Segerstrom to the itinerary.

[facultyofmusic]

I'm so close to dropping the engine in... but there's always something else to do before it. I thought about installing the degas tank after dropping the engine in, but I think it's a better idea to leave myself some moving room to maneuver my power tools. So now we'll work on mounting the moroso degas tank.

My plan is to follow JohnK's excellent post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Lucas-L692-tail-lights)&p=467567&viewfull=1#post467567) on installing his moroso degas tank. One piece of valuable advice he gave me was to install the degas-tank further to the passenger side instead of toward the center. The reason being that the coyote intake takes quite a bit of space, and it might rub on one of the coolant lines if I mount the tank too close to the center. Here you can see I mounted pretty close to the passenger side hood hinges.
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As for the height, I initially made a bracket that mirrored what JohnK did. When I tried mounting the tank, however, I saw that the filler opening was very high above the hood hinges. I know that the coyote's hood bulges up toward the middle, but I wanted to avoid any clearance issue I can. I made another bracket that bends down at a more severe angle before returning level, and the tank not sits much closer to the hinge height. The bracket is a thick strip of aluminum bent with my press brake. Wasn't too difficult with a big vise.
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Note that the bracket still mounts high enough to clear the top of the radiator:
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Currently the tank is attached via that one bracket. within the plane of the bracket the tank is rock solid, but it's not too strong vertically. Once again, taking inspiration from JohnK's post from above, I'm going to make another small bracket from a strip of steel that pushes up against the tank from the bottom to limit vertical travel. I haven't made that yet, but I should have it in the next update.

[edwardb]

To put your mind at ease regarding the location of the tank, these pictures are from my 20th Anniversary build 5+ years ago. I mocked up the hood location based on its height when mounted and also showing the amount of curvature. There's a lot more clearance than you might think. And well above the hood hinges:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Coyote%20Engine/.highres/IMG_3705_zpsxg2pmbax.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/9fc5592b-f6c0-442e-87aa-319e7e5e159e/p/9c6b91a0-ad44-4836-a933-aa216aef0027)

With the mounting points at the bottom of the 3/4" tube, and the lower mount resting on the fan shroud, it clears the hood by an inch or two. Not that close. Even though it looks high at this stage. It will flow fine lower (as I found out with my Coupe build) but a higher location gives you more space for other things. Also, just to confirm, (1) the lower mount is critical. It can't be anchored by only the tab on the backside. It gets much heavier with coolant inside. (2) assume you also know it needs to be removed when dropping the engine in.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%2020th%20Anniversary%20Mark%204%20R oadster/Coyote%20Engine/.highres/IMG_3708_zpsmfo7d5dm.jpg?width=590&height=370&fit=bounds (https://app.photobucket.com/u/edwardb123/a/9fc5592b-f6c0-442e-87aa-319e7e5e159e/p/b4cdbee5-fbef-4595-a1dd-248e3ef5e46d)

[Nigel Allen]

Hey, perfect timing Dan and Paul. Winter has arrived where I live and it is a great time to fit my Moroso tank.

Thanks for the positioning info. It will save me time in a big way.

Dan, I am really enjoying following along with your build. Really excellent work.

Cheers, Nigel

[460.465USMC]

That's going to be a nice addition to your engine bay, Dan. Thanks for sharing the tips and process. I'm on the fence about buying the Moroso and doing the same, or going with the F5 supplied overflow tank.

[edwardb]

That's going to be a nice addition to your engine bay, Dan. Thanks for sharing the tips and process. I'm on the fence about buying the Moroso and doing the same, or going with the F5 supplied overflow tank.

Just to be clear, the Moroso expansion tank is more than just a replacement for the FF supplied tank. Using the Moroso tank means plumbing the cooling system with several extra hoses (covered in multiple build threads) as Ford designed it. Becomes a closed system and is self-burping. No trapped air. The FF tank is a simple overflow tank and per the instructions the connections for the OE style setup are capped. Can't say one is better than the other because I've only done the Moroso setup on two Coyote builds. Many use the simpler setup successfully. I just prefer having it plumbed as designed.

[facultyofmusic]

(1) the lower mount is critical. It can't be anchored by only the tab on the backside.

Thanks for the key advice Paul. I was actually JUST wondering if that tab is actually necessary and completely forgot that it will be filled with fluid.

[facultyofmusic]

That's going to be a nice addition to your engine bay, Dan. Thanks for sharing the tips and process. I'm on the fence about buying the Moroso and doing the same, or going with the F5 supplied overflow tank.

Thanks for your support and glad you're dropping by! The moroso tank was an easy decision for me since I:
1. Loved the looks.
2. Have a friend who had to burp his kit car and it was apparently a PITA.

[facultyofmusic]

Alright, so I know we were just talking about making that bracket for the moroso expansion tank. Unfortunately to do that I need to mount the radiator, and to do that I need to measure the angle of the radiator, which needs an angle measurement tool... which I don't have. So change of plans. My buddies are finally all free for a day. Time to drop the engine in!

Before the crew gathered I walked around and looked at the sweet engine one last time. Once it goes in, it's not coming back out (please god don't make me have to take it back out).
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Having already installed the engine once and then pulled it back out, we were pretty "experienced" at the task. Lifting and inserting the transmission through the tunnel was a quick job since we were already familiar with the dimensions. The first 90% happened in about 30mins. The last 10% however, took 4 hours. You can probably guess why: The Headers. Honestly there isn't much I can even say about it. It's just... freaking tight everywhere! I had the engine hovering ~2in above the engine mounting brackets and ~3in towards the front of the chassis and it made 3 of the 8 bolts easier to access. 2 bolts towards the front were easy bolts anyway, and the remaining 3 were a PITA no matter what you do. If anyone here got the impression that installing the headers while the engine is in mid air is easy, IT'S NOT. Here's a visual comparison between the driver and passenger side exhaust header. Note how the driver side header's pipes are WAY closer to the flange. That closeness and the tight space is what makes it difficult. Wrenches and sockets you can fit on the passenger side simple won't go in on the driver's side.
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Luckily I did have a few tools that made this process easier. The hard part of this is essentially reaching bolts, therefore extensions, pivoting racket heads, and ratcheting combination wrenches help a lot. Here's a visual reference of these tools:

Universal Joint Socket:
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This helps you tighten bolts in tight areas from an angle. CRUCIAL for the bolts that normal wrenches can't reach.

Socket Extensions:
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This helps you reach the bolts from a location away from the 4-pipe collector. Without this you'll be banging on the collector tube all the time, severely limiting your range of motion.

Ratcheting Combination Wrench:
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This one in particular helps you reach the upper-rear bolt from the gap between the engine and the firewall. It's going to be a blind bolt, but once you fit the ratcheting head onto the bolt, all you gotta do is crank it up and down. Imagine if you have to re-fit an open wrench onto a blind bolt every 30 degrees. You don't want that.

After a few hours of arranging the bones in my arms and fingers in ways I never knew they could be before, the header was on. The final step was to slide the drive-shaft into the transmission before fully installing the engine onto its mounting bracket. For the T56 Magnum transmission, I found it impossible to install the drive shaft afterwards.
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Here it sits nicely in the engine compartment. What a piece of work!
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[JohnK]

Nice work! Yeah, that PS header is a lot of fun to install, insn't it?!

[Railroad]

You can down load an angle app to your cell phone and use it for your radiator angle.

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, Dan! That makes two of us who hope we don't get the pleasure of repeating this particular task. Way to go!

[facultyofmusic]

Congrats, Dan! That makes two of us who hope we don't get the pleasure of repeating this particular task. Way to go!

Thanks Chris! I'm following closely behind your build! I'm in the process of figuring out coyote plumbing on the side and can't wait to see how you do it.

[facultyofmusic]

Here's a picture of the upper front bolt of the driver side header. Right now it's nice and tight and all that, but just a few days ago I couldn't even put the bolt in and my gasket were misaligned. How did this happen? It all started with the driver-side engine lift bracket.
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By lift bracket I mean the thick steel plates FFR install on two sides of the engine for lifting the engine. Here's a picture:
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The bracket itself was big, thick, and it was too close to the bolt in the first picture. The bracket and the front most exhaust pipe together left no space to install that bolt. Here's an outline of roughly where the bracket was:
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At the time I thought I could just install the other bolts and install this one after the engine is in place. After all, it's one of those "easy" bolts right? The problem here is that the ford coyote gaskets have 2 "aligning holes", and the hole in question happens to be one of them. Take a look at the 4 holes indicated in the picture below. You'll see they have these tabs that effectively make the hole smaller than all the other ones. You have to install the bolts for these two holes first because they align the gasket.
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Because I didn't install that bolt, my gasket wasn't aligned. After dropping the engine and removing the lift bracket, I found that I couldn't insert the bolt because the tabs were in the way. From the two pictures below you can see both the misaligned gasket and the tabs sticking out into the hole.
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This meant I had to loosen all the bolts, get the header loose enough to shift the gasket into the right place, insert the final bolt, and re-torque everything. To my surprise, re-torquing the bolts was pretty easy! I realize now that it's inserting the bolts that was difficult, but loosening and tightening the bolts isn't too hard. When I realized my gasket was misaligned I posted this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42894-Exhaust-Header-Gasket-Misaligned-Throw-it-out-or-re-use-it) to ask if it's still good for use. Mike Everson suggested it should be good, so I didn't replace the gasket.

The second mishap with the mounting bracket is with one of the bolts. With the header installed, the bolt can't actually be removed without cutting it in half mid-way. This is because it collides with the header. In the picture below you can see just how much more room it needs.
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I used an oscillating tool and a metal cutting blade to cut off the bolt. If I knew about this earlier I would have pre-cut the bolt. There's still a lot of threads to grip into the block after the cut.
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I'm not sure if this is only an issue with FFR provided lift brackets with FFR coyote headers. I hope this information helps y'all out there! :P

[Windsor]

This sounds like how my day does every now-and-again.

Good to see you powered through.

[JohnK]

Wow, this sucks. Sorry to hear that this was so difficult. When I purchased my gen2 coyote, FFR didn't offer lifting brackets for the coyote so I purchased these from TDI Motion (https://tdmotion.com/product/coyote-engine-lift-brackets/). They worked perfectly and there was zero interference with either the header bolts, or with removing the lifting bracket bolts.

[facultyofmusic]

You can down load an angle app to your cell phone and use it for your radiator angle.

Thanks for the advice! I completely forgot about this.

[facultyofmusic]

There are 3 signals we need from the coyote to feed the FFR vintage style gauges: oil pressure, water temp, and tach pulse signal. Today we cover the first two.

The gen3 coyote crate engine comes with a harness with connectors for oil pressure sensor and the water-temp sensor hole blocked. I remember seeing a picture (probably from Paul's build thread) that explained what they were. I've spent about an hour reading through threads but still can't find that picture, so I'm going to recreate it:
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According to this thread on the gen3 coyote PCM (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35660-Coyote-Gen-3-Oil-Sensor), the gen3 harness REQUIRES the oil pressure sensor to be installed. If the oil pressure isn't connected the PCM will throw codes and limit engine to 3500RPM. This means we can't just disconnect it to install sensor from oil pressure gauge. FFR's gen3 coyote install kit comes with the fittings required to make a T to connect both factory sensor and gauge sensor.
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There's debate on whether or not the oil bypass solenoid is useful at all. Some reported no problems with it disconnected, some argue why not connect it if it's there. I found a good discussion on this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?35660-Coyote-Gen-3-Oil-Sensor) for those who are interested. Just search for "solenoid" on the page and you should find the relevant posts. I've decided to connect it like ford has it. Don't see why not.

The water temp sensor goes on a hole that's plugged from factory. FFR supplies a set of fittings that convert the water temp sensor's size to that hole's size.
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The area around the sensor plugs is pretty tight. The "tee" that splits oil pressure to two senders is also quite big. The factory harness is JUST long enough to reach the sensor location. With the "tee" in place, it can no longer reach.
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The sensor harness in its original location also rubs the steering column.
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To solve both of these issues, I detached the sensor harness from the last few mounting tabs and rerouted it. The new route isn't too far off from the old one, but it does reach the new sender location while being out of the way of the steering column. Here's a picture to illustrate. Red line marks the old route, green line marks the new.
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The space is still pretty tight, but with enough planning and awkward zip-ties it managed to stay out of the way of both the alternator housing and the exhaust.
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The last thing that still worries me is how close that bundle is to the exhaust pipe. At its closest point there's only 2.5 inches between the bundle at the forward-most pipe. Even after wrapping the exhaust I still worry about the amount of heat it radiates. I plan to wrap the bundle with heat reflecting foil tape. That should keep it under control.
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[toadster]

The second mishap with the mounting bracket is with one of the bolts. With the header installed, the bolt can't actually be removed without cutting it in half mid-way. This is because it collides with the header. In the picture below you can see just how much more room it needs.
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I used an oscillating tool and a metal cutting blade to cut off the bolt. If I knew about this earlier I would have pre-cut the bolt. There's still a lot of threads to grip into the block after the cut.
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I'm not sure if this is only an issue with FFR provided lift brackets with FFR coyote headers. I hope this information helps y'all out there! :P

EPIC! Thank you!!!

[facultyofmusic]

Today I saw an instagram post of a fellow builder's fuel pump corroded from being left in the tank for 2 years with gas in it. I knew that gas does eventually go bad, but I had no idea that modern gas with its ethanol content was so much more corrosive.

On post #218 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Oil-Pressure-and-Water-Temp-Sensor-Routing&p=485310&viewfull=1#post485310) Paul expressed concern on putting gasoline so early into the build. At the time I really wanted to test my fuel system before putting in the trunk aluminum. Looking back... I didn't really have to install the trunk aluminum that early. It's been 3 months since I've tested my fuel system and my first start is still looking pretty far away (1 month out?). I've put some Stabil fuel stabilizer in the tank to help keep it fresh, but regardless my first start is going to be using some 4-5 month old gasoline. If I could do it again I'd hold off putting gasoline into the tank so early.

I just hope I didn't permanently damage any part of my fuel system by having the fuel sitting there for so long.

[Lidodrip]

I would not worry about gas that is 4-5 months old. Here in Maine we routinely store boats with full tanks of gas (reduces space for condensation) for 7 months over the winter. We treat the gas with stabilizer and I have never had a problem, even with ethanol gas.

[edwardb]

X2. With stabilizer (I use Stabil 360) 4-month old gas is fine. Here in SE Michigan, our winters aren't as along as Maine. But I routinely have my cars in storage for 5-6 months, tank full, and Stabil added. Run a bit after putting in the Stabil so throughout the fuel system. Do the same thing with the riding mower, etc. No issues.

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the reassurance guys. Just put a bit more stabil into the tank and ran the pump for a few mins. Feeling much better about it now.

[Fman]

I have had gas go bad in three weeks in CA, I keep a bottle of Marine 360 sta-bil in my trunk and always add it at every fuel fill on the Cobra. FWIW A good friend is a reputable mechanic recommended the Marine 360 he said its even better than the standard Sta-bil for ethanol fuels and is concentrated - one bottle treats 320 gallons. If you are going to be running 91 remember most people don't want to pay that premium so that fuel will sit much longer in the station holding tanks before it goes in your tank, does not cycle out near as fast at 87/89 octane.

[facultyofmusic]

I have had gas go bad in three weeks in CA, I keep a bottle of Marine 360 sta-bil in my trunk and always add it at every fuel fill on the Cobra. FWIW A good friend is a reputable mechanic recommended the Marine 360 he said its even better than the standard Sta-bil for ethanol fuels and is concentrated - one bottle treats 320 gallons. If you are going to be running 91 remember most people don't want to pay that premium so that fuel will sit much longer in the station holding tanks before it goes in your tank, does not cycle out near as fast at 87/89 octane.

That's a really good point with 91 octane. Unfortunately it's also what I got. I guess we'll see what happens when the thing fires up :P

[facultyofmusic]

Continuing from post #252 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Reflections-on-putting-in-gasoline-too-early&p=491929&viewfull=1#post491929), here are some updates on the dashboard.

After switching from Autometer gauges to the FFR vintage style gauges I realized I had to shift the entire dashboard down by quite a bit or else the speedo would collide with the curved dashboard tube. As a result the dashboard mounting brackets no longer worked. Since they were discontinuous and flimsy anyway I decided to order a full length pre-cut dashboard support panel (http://replicaparts.com/under%20dash%20filler%20page.htm) from Mike Everson. It's a quality piece for $35, which is honestly about what I'd spend on the raw aluminum and cutting blades if I were to make a new one. Looks and works great!
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Previously I used rivnuts to secure the dashboard to the bottom support panels. It was an absolute pain in the *** to install and remove. With the new dash support panel I decided to use velcro instead. It's strong enough to hold, doesn't rattle, and once everything is finalized I'll drill 2-3 holes and secure it with aluminum panel screws to lock it down for good. After installing/removing the panel several times today I'm very glad I went with velcro. In the picture below and one of the pictures above you can see where I attached the velcro strip.
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The next issue with the panel having shifted down was that the steering column hole no longer aligned. The hole in its original location was perfect for Russ Thompson's turning signal stalk to poke through. I grunted in dismay as I expanded the perfectly circular hole upwards.

Unfortunately it wasn't after the deed was done did I realize that the new location would leave the steering column way too high. The arms of my steering wheel would cover up too much of the speedo and I may have trouble seeing some of my indicator lights. Here's a hindsight2020 shots of what I mean:
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I didn't see a way to mount the dash panel higher, so I modified the steering column mount on the frame so I could mount the RT turning signal from the bottom instead and it brought the steering column down by about 3/8". The result isn't pretty, but functionality wise it did exactly what I needed.
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Compared to what it was before the gauge swap it still sat higher, but it's a lot better than before.
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I'll clean off the paint marker lines, paint the cuts with some black enamel paint, and call it done.

[NYMike]

Hey Dan. Got caught up on your build a while ago and it’s really looking good!

The Everson panel is a really nice piece and we love ours. Great place to hide switches and other controls that you don’t want to see in the dash. Just wanted to make sure you know that once you rivet the front part into the frame, it becomes really difficult if not impossible to work behind the dash with the body and dash installed. Our solution was to cut the panel about an inch from the frame tube all the way across and use another piece of aluminum to tie the two pieces together with screws. That allowed us to drop the main portion of it and work behind the dash while it was still installed. It saved us a big headache when we had to do some last minute additions before we sent the car away for body work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150817&d=1626228691

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159872&d=1641608994

Keep up the good work!

[JB in NOVA]

Since they were discontinuous and flimsy anyway I decided to order a full length pre-cut dashboard support panel (http://replicaparts.com/under%20dash%20filler%20page.htm) from Mike Everson. It's a quality piece for $35, which is honestly about what I'd spend on the raw aluminum and cutting blades if I were to make a new one. Looks and works great!


+1 on the Mike Everson under-dash support. I think it really helps "solidify" the dash setup. Also, I mounted a lot of things on that under-dash support (4 heater louvers, USB charger port, 2 seat heater switches, high-beam switch, emergency flasher switch, emergency engine cut-off switch, and 3 under-dash lights), which helped keep the visible portion of the dashboard clean and simple:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136221&d=1602461666

Although not shown in this picture, I used rivnuts to secure the bottom the dash to the under-dash support, and I used velcro to secure the upper dash to the curved hoop. You can't see any of the "under-dash" controls from a normal vantage point, but they are easy to reach while driving. I am happy with the way it turned out.

[facultyofmusic]

Hey Dan. Got caught up on your build a while ago and it’s really looking good!

The Everson panel is a really nice piece and we love ours. Great place to hide switches and other controls that you don’t want to see in the dash. Just wanted to make sure you know that once you rivet the front part into the frame, it becomes really difficult if not impossible to work behind the dash with the body and dash installed. Our solution was to cut the panel about an inch from the frame tube all the way across and use another piece of aluminum to tie the two pieces together with screws. That allowed us to drop the main portion of it and work behind the dash while it was still installed. It saved us a big headache when we had to do some last minute additions before we sent the car away for body work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150817&d=1626228691

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159872&d=1641608994

Keep up the good work!

Thanks for stopping by my thread Mike! The advice on ease of access is a great reminder. I've designed my dashboard to be fully detachable with the body on, but without the body on I'm sure I'll trim some wires just a hair too short and it will make removing the dash with the body on a pain. I'll be sure to leave enough wiring to fully "pull out" the dash.

[facultyofmusic]

+1 on the Mike Everson under-dash support. I think it really helps "solidify" the dash setup. Also, I mounted a lot of things on that under-dash support (4 heater louvers, USB charger port, 2 seat heater switches, high-beam switch, emergency flasher switch, emergency engine cut-off switch, and 3 under-dash lights), which helped keep the visible portion of the dashboard clean and simple:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136221&d=1602461666

Although not shown in this picture, I used rivnuts to secure the bottom the dash to the under-dash support, and I used velcro to secure the upper dash to the curved hoop. You can't see any of the "under-dash" controls from a normal vantage point, but they are easy to reach while driving. I am happy with the way it turned out.

The lights are a great idea! I might steal that from ya :P I also didn't want to clutter the dash, so I made a little box for ignition control and other toggle switches. Def not period accurate, but I'm loving the look so far.

BTW, how are you liking the FFR dash so far? One of my foreseeable future projects down the line is to upgrade the dash as I've made some mistakes trimming and cutting the dash fabric. Wondering if I should just order the FFR pre-molded dash.

[JB in NOVA]

The lights are a great idea! I might steal that from ya :P I also didn't want to clutter the dash, so I made a little box for ignition control and other toggle switches. Def not period accurate, but I'm loving the look so far.

BTW, how are you liking the FFR dash so far? One of my foreseeable future projects down the line is to upgrade the dash as I've made some mistakes trimming and cutting the dash fabric. Wondering if I should just order the FFR pre-molded dash.

I bought the lights here: https://www.oznium.com/led-bolts-prewired-leds/led-bolt I believe I went with "warm white" with the lens option. I wired them to turn on in the courtesy position of the headlight switch. They work great and really come in handy at night! As for the FFR pre-fab dash, I think it looks nice and was easy to install. Of course, it limits your options in terms of color schemes. I would describe it as a "near black" gray, which goes well with a black interior but perhaps not with other color options. Also, it is vinyl, so it doesn't look exactly like leather, but it's pretty close. Hard to tell unless you really look close.

[facultyofmusic]

In post #272 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Dashboard-bottom-support-and-turning-signal-mount-mods&p=493191&viewfull=1#post493191) I documented the oil pressure and water temp senders, and I realized I may have made a mistake by over-tightening to straight-thread m12x1.5 o-ring fittings. The FFR instructions didn't mention a torque value so I just made it as tight as I could with bare hands. After a brief discussion on the power steering fittings (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43058-Seeking-advice-Power-steering-port-fittings-don-t-look-right), I learned that the o-ring sealed fittings have a super low torque spec. So now I'm debating whether I should remove the fittings now to check for o-ring damage, or just wait and see if it leaks.

[facultyofmusic]

So I talked with a friend of mine who does his own motor stuff and he told me to not worry about it unless it actually leaks. The key here is that even if it does leak, it won't be something catastrophic and easy to detect even at low RPMs. On the first start it should be obvious if it's gonna leak. It if doesn't leak at 2k RPM then it's not gonna leak at 7k RPM. If it does leak upon first start, then replace it. ... or else leave it be.

[facultyofmusic]

The O2 sensor harness is the last engine harness to tackle. It's also the least straightforward one, so here are some tips and pictures to help future builders along. The O2 sensor harness has 4 branches, but we only need two. It wasn't hard to unwrap the harness to trim it all the way back so I definitely recommend doing that. It will also give you some wires to work with when splicing the red power wire.

The O2 sensor harness reaches pretty far, but depending on where you place your ECU it might not reach the driver-side exhaust. I was lucky that I mounted by ECU pretty close to the front of the engine. The FFR manual suggests mounting the ECU on top of the passenger footwell.
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When I mounted my ECU the coyote install kit was still backordered so I decided to make my own bracket and mounted it closer to the front. I'm not sure if the bracket that comes with FFR coyote install kit will fit there though.
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Because I had my ECU in-line with the front face of the engine, I was able to route the O2 sensor harness almost straight across the top just behind the intake. In the picture below it's the harness with exposed wires.
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This allowed me to JUST reach the driver side O2 sensor with some slack for the engine to vibrate.
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The passenger side O2 sensor wires are way longer than they need to be, so I trimmed them short to avoid having a large bundle of unnecessary wires.
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With everything wrapped up the harness tucks away neatly along the top with the rest of the engine harness.
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[facultyofmusic]

There are threads with very complete documentation on the coyote coolant system. In this post I'll provide links to the ones that helped me the most, updated part numbers, and any extra notes from my own discoveries.

A few knowledge points:


The coolant plumbing system routes are identical between gen 1, 2, and 3 coyote engines. I confirmed this with Paul (edwardb). This means if you see a helpful post about plumbing on the gen 2 coyote then you can also apply it to gen3.
The Ford coyote install kit provides "everything you need", but a popular approach addition in the incorporation of a de-gas tank. I went with this approach. Explanations of the degas tank can be found here. (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40298-Expansion-Tank-Explained)
You don't need water in the system to crank and start your engine for a few mins. I'm mocking up the system to ensure everything fits and routes correctly, but I won't be putting water/coolant in the system until I verify that I don't need to take it off again due to some leak. More on this later.
DO lubricate the coolant hoses with dish soap and water when installing them. It makes it easier and also prevents damaging the hoses.
I'm not installing a heater and this point will not talk about installing one.


I mostly used Paul (edwardb) and John (JohnK)'s build threads as supplemental guides to the FFR guide. Here's my list of recommended readings:


From Paul's Type65 with a gen3 coyote: posts #414 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Complete-and-Graduated&p=341174&viewfull=1#post341174), #485 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Complete-and-Graduated&p=351190&viewfull=1#post351190), #488 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26630-Edwardb%92s-Gen-3-Type-65-Coyote-Coupe-59-Build-Complete-and-Graduated&p=351623&viewfull=1#post351623).
From Paul's 20th anniversary Mk4 roadster with gen2 coyote: posts #143 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=220495&viewfull=1#post220495), #145 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=221256&viewfull=1#post221256).
From John's Mk4 roadster with gen2 coyote: posts #201 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Picking-up-the-chassis)&p=467607&viewfull=1#post467607), #207 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Picking-up-the-chassis)&p=467860&viewfull=1#post467860).


In a conversation with JohnK he graciously provided me a list of ford part numbers of everything I needed. I'll echo them here:


CL3Z-8260-A: A better upper radiator hose than the one in the coyote install kit. Part is originally for a 2012 F150 upper hose. Advice from both John and I on this one: Be careful how you trim the radiator end. It’s easy to screw up. Checkout John's thread #207 to see how he modified it slightly to be able to rotate it to get more clearance from the PS pulley.

FR3Z-8C289-C: De-gas tank bottom to engine. An updated version of FR3Z-8C289-B.

FR3Z-8075-E: De-gas tank top/front to radiator, including one-way check valve. An updated version of FR3Z-8075-C.

DG9Z-8100-A: Stock Mustang reservoir cap. The de-gas tank I bought didn't come with a cap.

FR3Z-8276-B: Hose from the overflow tank top/rear to the water neck near the throttle body. Neither Paul, John, or I were able to find this in stock anywhere. The tank side is 3/8” ID hose and the engine side is 5/16” ID. Can be made quite easily with a 3/8" to 5/16" conversion fitting and respective hoses. John had some left over and kindly passed them onto me. I'll probably have some left over afterwards too so if you'd in the area I'll pass it onto you. Glen Davis posted below that part FR3Z-8C362-D maybe a good replacement.

Boig Motorsports BMS-104: Lower radiator hose. A high quality replacement for the one provided in the coyote install kit.


With the above parts and parts from the FFR provided coyote install kit, you should be able to completely finish routing the coolant system. A few visits to the local hardware store to buy hose clamps maybe required.

Here are some pictures of my coolant system (some hoses aren't clamped down yet):
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Now here's perhaps a controversial topic: Filling the system before first start.
I don't plan to fill my system until I've verified the correct operation of systems that are require moving the radiator to access. These systems include engine oil circulation and power steering pump/rack fluid circulation. Leaks on these two systems don't required very long to appear and I don't plan to run the engine for more than a minute or two without coolant and it shouldn't be anywhere close to needing coolant at that stage. If my power steering fittings leak it will be much easier to fix while the radiator can still be easily removed.

Another thing to note is that you can fill the system with distilled water to test the coolant circulation system before adding real coolant. Draining coolant is a PITA compared to just draining water. You can always replace the water with coolant afterwards.

[460.465USMC]

Hi Dan. You're cruising right along. I bookmarked the helpful thread on the EFI fuel pump issue just in case it impacts me. Good info. there.

I really like the bottom bracket you made for your Moroso tank. Well done!

I was able to order all of the special hoses for the Moroso setup from OEM Parts Source. Interestingly, the hose that came for my bottom tank connection is only about 6"-8", and with two right angle connections. I'll dig into it more soon, and see if they sent the wrong one, as it doesn't at all look like the one in your picture. It could be I just need to extend it.

Also, they had the top/rear hose (FR3Z-8276-B). I haven't installed/fitted yet, but a quick look at it and it seems right, or at least close.

Thanks for your pictures. Good points of reference.

[Glen Davis]

Since FR3Z-8276-B has been discontinued by Ford you might look at FR3Z-8C362-D. By the hand drawn picture on a Ford dealer website, it looks the same and seems to have the applications. Ford may not recognize a direct supersession, but it is something to look at.

[facultyofmusic]

Since FR3Z-8276-B has been discontinued by Ford you might look at FR3Z-8C362-D. By the hand drawn picture on a Ford dealer website, it looks the same and seems to have the applications. Ford may not recognize a direct supersession, but it is something to look at.

Thanks for the tip Glen! I've already the tools to make my own, but I'll update my post above to include this info!

[facultyofmusic]

Previous power steering related post: #247 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Coolant-System-Planning-Routing-and-Part-Numbers&p=487821&viewfull=1#post487821)

Mark from Breeze set me up with a great kit of fittings and hoses to do exactly what I need. In post #247 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Coolant-System-Planning-Routing-and-Part-Numbers&p=487821&viewfull=1#post487821) I talked about how the way I routed my brake lines meant I couldn't use the FFR provided lines since it will collide with the brake lines. Mark provided me with fittings that re-route the hose downward and away from the brake lines. They work wonderfully. In the pictures below the high pressure send-line is braided stainless steel, while the low pressure return-line is rubber.
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I routed the high-pressure line along the bottom of the X-member at the front of the engine to pop back up from the other side at a 90 degree angle straight to the pump itself.
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I've read somewhere on the forum that these power steering lines can take up to... a few hundred PSI of pressure??! I don't have a way to pump that much pressure into my lines. I did pressure test it, but only to about 200PSI. I've made quite a few of these PTFE stainless steel braided hoses now so I hope my work will hold up to the pressure.
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I did have a slight issue with the o-rings on the rack fittings. I tightened the fittings to about 18fl-lb and no more. The high-pressure fitting's o-ring looked like it's seated properly, but the low-pressure fitting's o-ring looks way too squeezed out to me. I posted about it in this thread. I ended up using the one provided by FFR for the low-pressure line that has a teflon crush-ring on it.
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I also decided to install a power-steering cooler. It's another one of those things that's not too much to install now and will be much harder to do later. The cooler I got didn't have a convenient pointing point, so I cut some aluminum L-beams and riveted it onto the cooler to provide a good mounting point. Turned out pretty good!
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I'll be filling up the power steering reservoir soon. The bleeding procedure seems straight forward. Fingers crossed that nothing leaks on first start!

[JohnK]

Those PS lines look like they're hanging down quite a bit lower than they need to - especially the low pressure rubber line. From the photos it looks like it's hanging below the bottom of the 4" tubes. If that's accurate and not just a trick of the perspective of the photo, you definitely want to get them up a lot higher than that or they'll snag on something and get torn off.

[facultyofmusic]

Those PS lines look like they're hanging down quite a bit lower than they need to - especially the low pressure rubber line. From the photos it looks like it's hanging below the bottom of the 4" tubes. If that's accurate and not just a trick of the perspective of the photo, you definitely want to get them up a lot higher than that or they'll snag on something and get torn off.

Yes! They are hanging because the clips I ordered aren't here yet. Should have clarified that in the post. Thanks for looking out!

[facultyofmusic]

Everyday we get one step closer to that mythical first start. So far I've been mostly worried about the mechanical aspects of the car, but as all that's settling down it's time to put the proper fluids into their respective components. I didn't do this all in one day, but I thought it'd be nicer to put it all in one post for the sake of organization.

Trans fluid:
I have the T56 magnum transmission which has a capacity of 3.75qts. I used 4 bottled of Royal Purple MAX ATF which I've seen recommended from quite a few places. I did this with the transmission already in the car with the drive-shaft pinion inserted. With a funnel it wasn't hard at all. In post #151 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Power-steering-routed&p=481465&viewfull=1#post481465) I showed how I removed the transmission shifter plate. I did that in reverse to close it up with some Permantex #2 gasket maker.

Powersteering:
The coyote power steering kit supplied by FFR is the KRC coyote power steering kit. After bleeding the power steering rack it used almost exactly 1qt for both the rack and the reservoir. The fluid I used was the KRC power steering fluid I bought together with a #4 restrictor flow valve. IDK what's in it... but I trust KRC enough to not ask too many questions.

IRC center-section/diff:
The IRS center section supplied through FFR comes directly from Ford. I asked FFR about how filled it was because I saw many threads saying it's already filled from Ford. The answer I got was that yes, it's filled, but not full and I should top it off with gear lube. So I purchased some Motorcraft SAE 75W-85 to fill it up.
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If you look at the mounted diff you'd think that you can't just pour fluid into the fill hole using the bottle because there's no way to raise the bottle above the actual fill hole. I thought I had to get some hose to awkwardly route into the hole. Instead, I realized that you can get the bottle JUST horizontal enough to squeeze the fluid out of the nozzle and effectively squirt it into the fill hole. The diff only needed about 1/2qt of lube anyway, so that was more than enough. No need for hoses!
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Engine oil:
A cursory glance at the coyote threads will convince anyone that priming the engine before first start is a good idea. I bought a garden sprayer and a 3/8NPT fitting that will fit the oil-pressure sensor hole, plugged the sprayer tube with the fitting and used it to pump about 2qts of oil into the engine through the oil pressure sensor hole.
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I then poured in the rest of the oil through the normal fill hole at the top. In total (pre-filling the oil filter, priming, and pouring at the end) the engine took just about 10qts of oil. I did spill a little, so that's a rough estimate. I just kept pouring until it reached the "full" indicator on the oil dipstick.

Beer:
I didn't see it recommended anywhere on the forums nor was it in the FFR provided guide, so I guess this was a bit of a risky maneuver. I first chilled 1 can of beer by leaving it in the fridge for about an hour. I then poured the beer down my mouth. It was pretty easy and straight forward, so I didn't use a funnel. TBH, not using a funnel was probably a good idea since I don't want oil-contaminated beer. I made sure to fill myself with beer now instead of right before a drive since I heard doing so can severely impair the traction/stability control of the vehicle. It felt great!

P.S. The garden sprayer oil primer is effectively useless to me now. If anyone in the area wants it feel free to take it from me.

[Nigel Allen]

Use low viscosity beer, it pours easier. Also highly recommend low detergent content as well. Additives such as whiskey chasers can lead to disaster. Overfilling can lead to high internal pressures.

Somewhere between the low & full is perfect.

[460.465USMC]

Very funny, Dan! Though I don't see a picture of the Beer fluid dispenser. :p

I added five quarts of oil into the normal fill opening, and (like you) will pump in the additional amount right before I attempt to start, which is hopefully soon. Just mounted my side pipes...what a sweet sight that is.

Looking forward to hearing your Gen 3 rumble to life!

[facultyofmusic]

Very funny, Dan! Though I don't see a picture of the Beer fluid dispenser. :p

I added five quarts of oil into the normal fill opening, and (like you) will pump in the additional amount right before I attempt to start, which is hopefully soon. Just mounted my side pipes...what a sweet sight that is.

Looking forward to hearing your Gen 3 rumble to life!

I'm right there with you Chris! I'm planning to have the coyote roar to life on my July 4th party with my buddies. Roar to freedom baby!

EDIT: Speaking of which, both of us are waiting on radiator repairs ha! I'm really hoping to get mine fixed soon. Your post on the radiator leak was a good reminder for me to pressure test it before adding fluids in. Man draining coolant must have been a pain!

[460.465USMC]

July 4th would be an excellent day to let those ponies loose!

Coolant drain wasn't bad...so far. Opened the petcock on the lower right hand corner of the radiator and drained out about 2 gallons into a clean 5 gallon bucket. The rest is in the motor. Though I'm not looking forward to cutting off the Gates Powergrip clamps on the lower and upper 2" hoses--I knew it was a good idea to buy their removal/cutting tool!

[facultyofmusic]

Some more knick-knacks to check-off along the way!

On the wiring front, connected the ignition control panel wires to the main harness. It looked neater than I thought it would. Pretty happy with it. :)
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After routing my oil pressure and water temp sensor cables, I realized I forgot to tap the sparkplug for my tach-signal. Undid a part of my sensor harness and routed the purple tach-signal wire through it. On the other end I decided to use a single-connector weatherpack connector. I know usually people just solder it in or tap it some other way. Since I had these weatherpack connectors lying around I thought why not make the whole thing unpluggable?
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Pretty sweet. Looks like it's a part of the engine itself!

In both Paul and John's roadster build they recommended the Treadstone airflow straightener. I purchased one too and inserted it right before the MAF sensor. I secured it with some JB-weld. Not the prettiest thing, but it works.
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My oil-filler neck has so far been "secured" by a chain of hanging zip-ties. By "secure" I mean they are not secure at all and will definitely swing around if I were to drive the car around. I took some time to trim down the hose in place, made a little wooden "support block" with just the right distance from the aluminum panels, and secured it with metal hose clamps. Now it's super solid and ain't going anywhere.
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Last but not least, the side-pipes! I bolted them on just to see the fit. The passenger-side pipe is pretty okay, but the driver-side is way off. They are both flared outwards enough that the FFR provided mount won't reach far enough, so I'll need the wedges for sure. I ordered some wedges of different sizes from Breeze (you can find theM here (https://breezeautomotive.com/product-category/exhaust/)). I'll post updates here on how they align when I get them. The car looks real badass with the side-pipes!
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[edwardb]

Nice progress. Always lots of details. Couple suggestions: I'd put some edge protection around that cutout in your underdash panel where the wires are going through. Good practice in all cases with exposed wires like that. Assume you mean fuel filler not oil filler. (Said by one who is the worst self proofreader in history...). If you are putting oil in there, well... I wouldn't spend one minute messing with your pipe alignment until the body is on. As long as you can bolt them on you're good for first start and go-kart. I can almost guarantee any wedges you add will be wrong once the body is installed.

[facultyofmusic]

Nice progress. Always lots of details. Couple suggestions: I'd put some edge protection around that cutout in your underdash panel where the wires are going through. Good practice in all cases with exposed wires like that. Assume you mean fuel filler not oil filler. (Said by one who is the worst self proofreader in history...). If you are putting oil in there, well... I wouldn't spend one minute messing with your pipe alignment until the body is on. As long as you can bolt them on you're good for first start and go-kart. I can almost guarantee any wedges you add will be wrong once the body is installed.

Thanks Paul. I was under the impression that I need the side-pipe hangers to relieve some stress from the thing hanging from just the headers. Will the headers themselves hold up to vibrations of the big heavy side pipes?

[edwardb]

Thanks Paul. I was under the impression that I need the side-pipe hangers to relieve some stress from the thing hanging from just the headers. Will the headers themselves hold up to vibrations of the big heavy side pipes?

For first start and go-kart, no issue with not having the hangers. Although not my personal choice, some guys never put them on. Not something I recommend for several reasons. But does confirm there's strength there. Add to that the location of the hangers will be dictated by the body and pipe alignment. Something you don't have any way to confirm now. Only that wherever you place them will almost for sure be wrong.

[facultyofmusic]

I'll admit that I've been putting off the dashboard for quite a while. Just didn't want to throw myself into the mess of wires until I have to. :p Now's the time to do it though. I need those gauges for my first start!
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The Ron Francis FFR harness instructions, although resourceful, wasn't too helpful with its step-by-step instructions. What I did find the most useful was the large wiring diagram that showed where every wire go. I spent quite some time making sure that I understand what every wire was for and where it leads before starting on the harness itself. The vintage-style FFR gauges also came with paper instructions on how to connect them. Putting the two together and you get a very good idea what to do. In the end it only looked scary but once you get started with a good picture in mind it's not bad at all. I wired everything pretty much exactly as shown except the turning signal and indicator lights. I got the Russ Thompson turn signal which had 5 wires coming out of it: 3 for turning signal, 2 for the momentary switch at the end of the stalk. I used weatherpack connectors to split it into plugs of 2+3 for easy assembly.
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For my indicators I used a 6-pin molex connector for the 6 indicator lights for easy removal.
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And that's it really. Everything else was by the book. I made sure that the dash harness could be connected and still be pulled out quite far as in the future I'll need to install/remove the dash without taking off the body or the bottom support panel.
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You may have noticed that I didn't spend too much time trimming the wires to just the right length. That's for a reason, an upsetting one if I may say so: I really like the competition dash layout.

In the beginning I went with the street layout for practicality, just I just can't get the comp dash out of my head. This was especially after seeing JohnK's fantastic dash (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Picking-up-the-chassis)&p=463917&viewfull=1#post463917) in person when I visited his shop. (I mean just look at it!) I really do like the look of my indicator lights, but the "olympics symbol" arrangement of the other dials just... look... awkward? Something about the competition dash looks really nice and balanced. I've decided to make the competition dash a "future upgrade". I'll settle with this for now, but I know I want the other one. Grass is greener? Perhaps.

I plugged the dash harness in and turned on the switches. To my surprised stuff actually worked! TBH I was expecting something to be broken or non-responsive and I'll end up spending all night debugging what's wired wrong. I was pretty darn happy. Here's a video of the completed (for now) dash: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOV59Z0-nw8

[facultyofmusic]

7 days until first start. Just churning along with the remaining items on my to-do list for that fateful day.

Found my coil of brake safety wire from my box of parts. Totally forgot that I bought it. Spent a whole afternoon just safety-wiring my rotors all by hand. The youtube instruction videos all use some fancy twisty pliers but I didn't have one of those. It was completely doable without out, but gosh do my hands hurt right now from wrestling with the thin steel wires. Turned out pretty good though.
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The mounting clips for my power steering lines also arrived just in time. Now it no longer dangles dangerously beneath the X brace.
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Was tidying up my front-harness when I had this thought: How the heck am I supposed to bolt in my windshield? The passenger-side mounting point is uncluttered so I don't see a problem there, but the driver-side is filled with fuse-box wiring and pedal-box hardware. The FFR instructions only show a picture for the passenger side but not the driver side. I'll admit I haven't the time to do any deep-forum-reading on windshield mounting yet, but it was definitely a big "hmmmmm" moment.
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[Jeff Kleiner]

I’ve done it about a hundred times and it’s not that bad. First of all life will be easier if you drill and tap the side posts for 1/2-13 so that you don’t have to fumble with a nut. Take the fuse box loose and drop it down. You can then reach over it to install the bolts. Use an air ratchet if you have the ability, otherwise a universal socket and long extension help.

Good luck!

Jeff

[egchewy79]

+1 on what Jeff said about tapping the windshield posts. Hold on tight to the drill. I remember a pretty violent jerking as I was trying to drill that large hole.
Depending on how small your hands are, you might be able to get that bolt in without dropping the fuse box. At least I was able to, and get a standard 3/8" socket wrench in there to tighten stuff.

[Chopper]

+1 on what Jeff said about tapping the windshield posts. Hold on tight to the drill. I remember a pretty violent jerking as I was trying to drill that large hole.

Using a step bit could help to get you there a little more smoothly. I tweaked my wrist a couple of times before a buddy turned me on to this trick.

-Brandon

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the tips! I haven't thought about making the fuse panel removable for this purpose. It makes total sense now that I think about it. I'll add that to my list.

[facultyofmusic]

5 days until first start.

Been thinking about the possibility of driving it down the street and back after it starts. I understand that an untuned coyote (especially gen 3) will be quite jerky to drive since nothing's calibrated, but I still want to give it a try. After bleeding and connecting all the pedals I sat in the driver's seat going through the motions, and realized I'm sliding back on the seat a bit every time I depress the clutch. By the 5th time I'm finding it really hard to reach all the day. I asked about temporary seat mounting solutions in this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43275-Temporary-seat-mounting-solutions-for-go-kart-stage) and got lots of good suggestions. Some say it's okay to drive without the seat secured while some suggests it's a safety issue to not have a secured seat depending on what "go-kart" means. Go-kart to me means tootin down the local residential area driving strictly under 25mph and away from big streets until I'm ready to put the body on. I imagine I want to do this for at least a month or so while putting together the rest of the car just to see if something leaks or gets loose. Call it mental assurance? I also plan to take it to a tuning shop to get the coyote tuned by an in-person tuner, so before I do that I want to make sure the car isn't going to break down on the dyno. Some go-karting would help with that too.

As for the seats, I don't think I'll secure it after all. I'll put some blankets and what not behind the seat so I won't keep sliding back. I don't plan to take any corners at speed either. If I do I'll be sure to have the seat secured and seat belts installed, but I just don't see that happening.

Another item of preparation is alignment and ride height. There's an excellent thread here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30170-Ideal-Ride-Height-and-Adjusting-Koni-Coil-Overs) discussing initial ride-height adjustment which I read over and helped me decide to not worry too much about it. The koni-shocks will have to "settle-in" a bit. That kinda makes sense to me, but I got no clue how much "settling" it needs. With the collars adjusted to be just snug on the springs, I'm getting ~4 1/2in in the front and 5in in the back. I think that's totally good enough for some initial go-karting before I dive into actually setting the ride height. As for alignment, I don't plan to get it dialed in either since I don't even have the ride-height set. what I will do is to at least make sure the toe, caster, and rear thrust angle aren't horribly off. When everything's settled in I'll take it to a shop and have it properly height-adjusted and aligned.

With that, the only remaining thing is the coolant circulation system, which has been quite the adventure. Stay tuned!

[egchewy79]

good luck w/ your timeline. When I was filling my small block w/ coolant, I was filling it up from one of the heater hoses w/ the help of a buddy. after about 2qts, I start hearing a splashing on the floor. Coolant is pouring out of the block. One of the threaded holes in the block was apparently not a ground site but rather a drain port that accepts a NPT bung. I remember trying to attach my ground cable to this hole but couldn't find the correct sized bolt.

[JeffP]

You may be fine with your coyote. I put close to 500miles on mine with the stock tune with no issues. I have since put a base tune from Lund on it and it certainly seems to be smoother and more linear, but without something to compare it to I probably would have thought the stock tune was just fine. I'm not suggesting don't tune - just that I think you'll be fine for go-kart.

After my base tune Lund says everything looks good, no revisions. So I also guess they have it dialed in pretty well at this point. I still need to do my WOT pull, I missed that on the first datalogging notes but otherwise all is good.

[facultyofmusic]

good luck w/ your timeline. When I was filling my small block w/ coolant, I was filling it up from one of the heater hoses w/ the help of a buddy. after about 2qts, I start hearing a splashing on the floor. Coolant is pouring out of the block. One of the threaded holes in the block was apparently not a ground site but rather a drain port that accepts a NPT bung. I remember trying to attach my ground cable to this hole but couldn't find the correct sized bolt.

haha, not gonna lie that totally sounds like something I'd mess up on too. Can't wait to see what needs "fixing" after I start it up. :P


You may be fine with your coyote. I put close to 500miles on mine with the stock tune with no issues. I have since put a base tune from Lund on it and it certainly seems to be smoother and more linear, but without something to compare it to I probably would have thought the stock tune was just fine. I'm not suggesting don't tune - just that I think you'll be fine for go-kart.

After my base tune Lund says everything looks good, no revisions. So I also guess they have it dialed in pretty well at this point. I still need to do my WOT pull, I missed that on the first datalogging notes but otherwise all is good.

That's good to know. Is your coyote's intake exactly what FFR provided in the install kit?

[JeffP]

Yes, all FFR. (black silicone tube, MAF tube, and air cleaner) also FFR stainless pipes and headers.

[facultyofmusic]

3 days until first start.

some good news and some bad news. I guess I'll start with the bad.

The reputable welder I found in the area wasn't able to completely fix my radiator leak (a full report on the whole journey coming soon) so I'll have to purchase a new one. He tried chasing down the gap but the radiator channels are just so thin that it's extremely difficult to do. I went to go pick it up this morning, but of course, I forgot my wallet. Had to leave him with apologies and that I'll come back to get it next week. Ugh, what a bummer. Regardless, I had a radiator ordered from FFR and it's arriving soon. I'll still be able to fire up the engine. It will just be radiatorless for one more week after that.

After putting on my rear wheels I realized that my driver-side toe-arm's chasses mounting end is a little loose. Upon a close look it appears that the spacers weren't enough to tightly hold the rod-end in place. I'm gonna have to take that part off and add in another washer. It's a PITA to do, but at least I have a solid plan. Once again, just takes time.

The good news is that my car is now roughly aligned. I decided to learn the good'ol string alignment method. Went to ACE hardware, bought two 6ft wood beams and some fishing line. Had a friend over each with a caliper in our hands and we were off. The setup didn't take long at all. It's pretty amazing how simple it really is.
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I decided to do my alignment using my brake rotors instead of the wheels because that way I can adjust the upper control arm and toe-arms without swapping the wheel on and off every time. I secured the rotor to the hubs using lug nuts and a few thick washers. It did the trick.

Before this I had it "setup" by eyeballing and boy was I off! In the picture below you can see just how far off my driver side thrust angle was:
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Yikes!

As this is by no means a "final alignment", the specs I went with were quite straightforward. 0 degree camber and toe in the rear. 1/16in total toe-in in the front with FFR suggested UCA specs for power-steered setups. Should be good enough for go-karting. :)

[Chopper]

After putting on my rear wheels I realized that my driver-side toe-arm's chasses mounting end is a little loose. Upon a close look it appears that the spacers weren't enough to tightly hold the rod-end in place. I'm gonna have to take that part off and add in another washer. It's a PITA to do, but at least I have a solid plan. Once again, just takes time.

Hang in there, one thing I'm sure you've found about building these cars is that you spend a lot of time putting something together to take it apart again.



I decided to do my alignment using my brake rotors instead of the wheels because that way I can adjust the upper control arm and toe-arms without swapping the wheel on and off every time. I secured the rotor to the hubs using lug nuts and a few thick washers. It did the trick.

I remember when I did my first alignment, seems intimidating at first, but kudos for sticking it out and working on it. String method is great, I always seem to trip on the string somewhere half way through =) I can't quiet tell from your pictures, but the suspension needs to be under load to get any kind of accurate alignment. It's an iterative process and takes several passes dial in, as all the elements (toe/camber/caster) interact with each other. to With the body off it's pretty easy to reach all the front adjustments.

-Brandon

[edwardb]

... the suspension needs to be under load to get any kind of accurate alignment. It's an iterative process and takes several passes to dial in, as all the elements (toe/camber/caster) interact with each other. With the body off it's pretty easy to reach all the front adjustments.

-Brandon

Good catch. I missed that when I first read the post. Alignment with the suspension hanging isn't going to be right. Maybe not even close. Needs to be at ride height. You could jack up the suspension I guess without the wheels/tires on. But as said, without the body, all the adjustments are relatively easy to reach even with the wheels/tires on and sitting on the ground. I understand you're just trying to get it in the ballpark. But not sure how much value there is to what you're doing now.

[Jeff Kleiner]

As has been mentioned you can't align the car with the suspension hanging, and I can tell by the placement of your jack stands that is what it's doing.

Jeff

[facultyofmusic]

Huh, I really should have read the guides more carefully then. :( I guess it makes sense that the wheel geometry changes when it's in mid-air. Should have thought about that... idk what to say lol. Looks like I'll do it after later with the wheels on the ground.

[facultyofmusic]

0 more days until first start. In just a few hours it will have been exactly a year since I got the shipment from stewart transport.

Spent today finishing the coolant circulation system. In post #288 I detailed the part numbers and de-gas tank setup I used. Today I finished installing them onto the car. It should have been done a WHILE ago, but I made a super expensive mistake by having my power drill too close to the radiator while walking around. If only my brain was as sharp as that drill bit...
168981

So yeah, that hole is right in the middle of the radiator. I started this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43082-Small-puncture-in-radiator-Can-I-fix-this) to ask for advice on how to fix this. Many suggested that I try a local welder or radiator shop. Just about every radiator shop I called told me they can't do anything for me the moment I told them it's an aluminum radiator. The rest didn't pick up. I asked my mechanic (for my daily driver) for a recommendation and he gave me the contact info of John Romanoff, a very experienced and skilled welder up in Redwood City. I took the radiator to him and showed him the damage. He wasn't too confident about it, but he said he'll take it and try his best. A week later he called back and I went to pick up the radiator. John tried his best to chase down the pin hole leaks after welding the row shut, but he just couldn't chase them all. He said he pressure tested it and used soapy water to identify where the leaks were and he knows there are still tiny leaks. I appreciate his efforts and honestly. In the end I decided that it was just not worth it to patch the rest with epoxy so I ordered a new radiator from FFR. It arrived a few days later.

Perhaps it's just my biased memory, but I recall seeing a few threads on radiator leaks and damaged recently. I jerry-rigged a pressure-testing setup using some of the left-over coolant tubes, a PVC cap, and my radiator pressure-testing kit. Pumped 6psi of air into it and left it there overnight. I didn't want to pump a whole bar into it because the setup was pretty janky. The idea was that even the smallest leak would let out that 6psi of pressure overnight. If I come back the next morning and see that the needle has not moved, then I'd be confident that the radiator is good.
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...and sure enough, the next morning the needle didn't move at all. Nice.
168984

I then proceeded to plumb the rest of the system. Since I've already done it once it was pretty quick. The network of tubes are pretty kool to look at. I AM a little concerned about how difficult it would be to swap the battery... but I do see a way to do it. I'm sure I'll be fine! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
168985

After tightening everything down, I pressurized the system with 1 bar of pressure. I'll leave it there overnight to see if the pressure stays the same. If I wake up tomorrow and the needle is still at 1 bar then I'll be able to put coolant in with confidence. Can't wait!
168986


Everything else is pretty much ready for the first start. I tried playing around with the seat belt but didn't get anywhere, so it's just for show in the pictures below. Regardless, if everything goes well tomorrow I'll be able to fire it up and perhaps drive it back into the garage from my drive way! Fingers crossed.
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[facultyofmusic]

Beautiful Tuesday morning saw a sleep deprived Dan crawl out of his bed and straight into the garage to check the pressure tester. After pressurizing the system to ~14psi the pressure reading dropped ~1psi in about 5 hours when I checked before going to sleep. This was expected as completely new coolant tubes and pipes will expand the first time it receives any large amount of pressure. The question is whether or not it maintains the remaining ~13psi for the rest of the night. It did!
169182

I was beyond ecstatic. This meant the day is finally here, and I've somehow managed to stay on schedule ha! I lowered the car onto the floor, wedged ramps under the front wheel, let go of the brakes, rolled out of the garage and into the sun for the first time. I had forgotten what the garage looked like before the project. What a strange feeling.
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The funny thing is, I was totally gonna start it without coolant. Even if I put water in it would just be distilled water first just in case anything happens. However I was feel extra confident, so I just filled it up with coolant the first time. I guess patience got the best of me. I mean I DID testing everything as much as I could... let's see if we can make the first time charm!

The burping process is really painless with the moroso tank; more on that later. After the initial tank fill I cranked the engine. It took a few very long cranks even after priming the fuel rails. While cranking you could see some smoke coming out of the exhaust pipes which was consistent with what I read from other coyote build threads. Eventually it fired up and roared to life. Oh that sweet sound! I was too busy to celebrate though. I ran around the car checking for any oil, power steering, or coolant leaks. ...and what do you know, NOTHING LEAKED!

My buddy and I then uncapped the moroso tank and used a coolant burping funnel to fill the rest of the system. The thermostat switched over at about 85C. The radiator fan kicked on and the coolant rapidly went down as we quickly filled it back up with coolant. After a minute or so coolant started coming back out into the burping funnel, at which point I turned off the engine, waited for the coolant to go back down into the tank, and we were done.
169188

The engine turned on pretty much instantly every time after the first start. I think I was just overwhelmed by the fact that everything actually worked exactly as expected. It wasn't until after filling the coolant did I have a moment to rest my mind to realize what I'm looking at in front of me. It's been one hell of a year!
169189

I wanted to write a paragraph here thanking everyone on this forum who helped me along the way, but I know I'm too cheesy so I should just hold back and savor the feeling before I make anyone reading this feel all slimy :p. seriously though, thank you everyone who've been with me so far. The motivation I get from this forum cannot be understated. I hope my happiness can be yours as well.

Video of the first start and drive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbS7iA0xgUw

Now that my milestone is reached, I'm gonna check myself in to a hot-spring in the mountains and disconnect from the world for a weekend. I can already feel the weight of anxiety and excitement disappearing from my shoulders. The past few days have not been kind to my sanity; barely slept for more than 5 hours a night waiting for this day.

Danny out. (for just a weekend lol)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Congrats Man! :)

Jeff

[KDubU]

A major milestone, congrats!

[egchewy79]

that last pic is priceless. I also like the pic of two guys doing work while the others are just watching.
I remember being so nervous for my first start. I had to break in a flat tappet cam and was worried about wiping out the cam lobes if I didn't do things correctly. Add to that the fact that I was using an EFI that I wasn't familiar with and not confident that I'd be able to keep the engine running for the required break in time.
The morning of my first start, I found that my battery was dead (left in the run position overnight). I also had to overcome a coil wire that wasn't correct (needed a male connection and the kit came w/ a female one).
Congrats again on this milestone and it's been fun watching your progress.

[JohnK]

Awesome! Congratulations Dan. Huge accomplishment to get to this point.

[NYMike]

Congrats Dan! Sounds great.

[460.465USMC]

Way to go, Dan! First start...and first go-kart! That's awesome! The relief of the first start and no leaks is a very good feeling. You did good.

Enjoy your weekend getaway!

[facultyofmusic]

Over the past few days I've fired up the engine quite a few times. I wanted to hear the engine roar to life, but I also wanted to heat cycle it, bring it through some revs, let the radiator fan kick in a few times, and other motions to check for issues. I've noticed a few things:

The thing of interest was that the car takes a second of cranking to start from cold. When the engine is hot it starts back up almost instantly, but when it's cold I have to keep the starter cranking for about a second before the engine burps and little and then come to life. Is this normal? I've seen my friends' corvettes take longer to start up from a cold state and I intuitively understand that a bigger engine takes more power to start. I just want to make sure this isn't some cause for concern.

I had the front of the car elevated so I could take a look at the car from below as my friend did small revs and sustained RPMs. The engine and exhaust clearance looked good, and when the engine is revved hard it doesn't pull or knock on anything. Nice! While I was under the car I did near a periodic squeaking noise. By shifting my body around under the car I pinpointed it to the clutch. I asked my buddy to engage/disengage the clutch over and over again which helped me verify that the squeaking sound was only there when the clutch was engaged. I wonder what it is. It's very very faint.

So far after driving it around the block plus a few heat cycles, I've never noticed a puddle of anything on the floor. I did, however, notice some oil and coolant seepage around the pressure and temp sender fittings.

The coolant seepage is visible with the pipe thread sealant. The seepage looks really, really, really slow. I don't really know what to do with it right now aside from monitoring it more over the next few weeks.
169358
EDIT: Another thing I realized is that my coolant is very neon yellow... not green or blue. How did that greenish blue liquid get there!?

The oil seepage shows from the bit of oil near the T-fittings. I think it's leaking from there before I honestly can't figure out where else it'd come from. I don't see any obvious leaks anywhere.
169359

For the oil leak, I suppose I could get new higher quality fittings and redo the the "T" section during my next oil change if the leak is small enough to hold out. Currently my next steps is just continuing observation. Does anyone see this as something more serious that I need to take care of right away?

[Nigel Allen]

my Coyote engine behaves in exactly the same way in regard to cold and hot starting.

I don't think quality of the tee fitting is an issue, unless the tapered oil sender/s have been over tightened as they can cause the brass tee to crack easily. Pull it apart, look for cracks. If all good, reseal it with a bit more sealant tape and don't overtighten. They shouldn't need to be much more than finger tight plus half a turn to achieve satisfactory seal. Same goes for coolant sender.

A good tip when looking for an oil leak is to thoroughly clean the area with some brake clean solvent. It will really dry out the metal surfaces and you can quickly see where the oil leak develops.

Best of luck,

Nigel

[OB6]

How much thread tape are you using? Too much can cause problems on tapered threads. Three wraps is plenty.
I prefer to use actual sealant paste on plumbing connections.

[edwardb]

You'll get various opinions on here. But many, including me, recommend leaving the tape in your toolbox for home plumbing. Use high quality thread sealant, like Permatex (there are others) instead for these builds wherever sealant is appropriate. Not interested in arguing or getting this thread off topic. Just throwing it out there.

[facultyofmusic]

How much thread tape are you using? Too much can cause problems on tapered threads. Three wraps is plenty.
I prefer to use actual sealant paste on plumbing connections.

I've been using Loctite PST threadsealer on all my NPT fittings.

[facultyofmusic]

my Coyote engine behaves in exactly the same way in regard to cold and hot starting.

I don't think quality of the tee fitting is an issue, unless the tapered oil sender/s have been over tightened as they can cause the brass tee to crack easily. Pull it apart, look for cracks. If all good, reseal it with a bit more sealant tape and don't overtighten. They shouldn't need to be much more than finger tight plus half a turn to achieve satisfactory seal. Same goes for coolant sender.

A good tip when looking for an oil leak is to thoroughly clean the area with some brake clean solvent. It will really dry out the metal surfaces and you can quickly see where the oil leak develops.

Best of luck,

Nigel

Thanks Nigel, over-tightening definitely could be an issue. One of the things I've learned on this project is that I almost always overestimate how much torque things need, haha. Yeah my plan is to clean the area as much as I can and see where the oil start to gather. It's a bit tough because the area down there is really tight, but I don't see another way to diagnose this either.

[Zach Bohn]

Congratulations on First Start!

[facultyofmusic]

Ok so, the more I think about the greenish gooey stuff on my brass fittings the less it makes sense. Nothing liquid in or near by engine is green or blue. Coolant is yellow. Oil is, well, oil coloured. Brake fluid is deep yellow. The greenish hue on the thread sealant doesn't appear on just the water-temp sender fitting. It shows on the oil-pressure sender fittings as well (see picture below), so it can't be coolant.
169440

This may sound silly and I'm not a chemist, but I wonder if it's something in the left over thread sealant oxidizing the brass fitting it came in contact with. Copper oxide is green (brass is copper + zinc alloy). The oxidization process could be accelerated by both the exhaust header heat and heat from the water/oil that the fittings come in contact with. Try as I may I could not find any info on what exactly is in loctite PST. I know it's an anaerobic adhesive sealant with PTFE but not much else. The actual composition of loctite PST is probably a guarded trade secret or something.

If someone reading this IS a chemist I'd love to know if what I wrote above makes any sense at all.

Regardless, took another brass fitting I had lying around, smeared some loctite PST on it, and secured it around the same area. If that also turns green after a few heat cycles then perhaps there isn't much to worry about after all.

[edwardb]

Ok so, the more I think about the greenish gooey stuff on my brass fittings the less it makes sense. Nothing liquid in or near by engine is green or blue. Coolant is yellow. Oil is, well, oil coloured. Brake fluid is deep yellow. The greenish hue on the thread sealant doesn't appear on just the water-temp sender fitting. It shows on the oil-pressure sender fittings as well (see picture below), so it can't be coolant.
169440

This may sound silly and I'm not a chemist, but I wonder if it's something in the left over thread sealant oxidizing the brass fitting it came in contact with. Copper oxide is green (brass is copper + zinc alloy). The oxidization process could be accelerated by both the exhaust header heat and heat from the water/oil that the fittings come in contact with. Try as I may I could not find any info on what exactly is in loctite PST. I know it's an anaerobic adhesive sealant with PTFE but not much else. The actual composition of loctite PST is probably a guarded trade secret or something.

If someone reading this IS a chemist I'd love to know if what I wrote above makes any sense at all.

Regardless, took another brass fitting I had lying around, smeared some loctite PST on it, and secured it around the same area. If that also turns green after a few heat cycles then perhaps there isn't much to worry about after all.

I'm no chemist (today's understatement) but I've used Permatex or Loctite thread sealant around brass fittings for many builds and never had any issue with oxidation. Looking at your pictures, is that amount of sealant left over after you completely tighten the fitting with the sealant coated on the threads? If so, I'd clean it up when you're done. It's not doing anything out there. The sealant only matters between the internal threads. Perhaps that amount of sealant turns color on its own. I don't know though. I never leave it like that. As a general statement, I'd be very surprised if you have a sealant issue.

[460.465USMC]

Over the past few days I've fired up the engine quite a few times. I wanted to hear the engine roar to life, but I also wanted to heat cycle it, bring it through some revs, let the radiator fan kick in a few times, and other motions to check for issues. I've noticed a few things:

The thing of interest was that the car takes a second of cranking to start from cold. When the engine is hot it starts back up almost instantly, but when it's cold I have to keep the starter cranking for about a second before the engine burps and little and then come to life. Is this normal? I've seen my friends' corvettes take longer to start up from a cold state and I intuitively understand that a bigger engine takes more power to start. I just want to make sure this isn't some cause for concern.

Hi Dan. My Gen 3 is behaving similarly. My gut says extended cranking on cold start is fuel related. So, I started some trial-and-error on my last cold start: before cranking over I ran the fuel pump three cycles by turning the "key" to the Run position. Turn key off. Repeat twice more. Crank motor over after the third cycle and it started much faster. I'm going to try only two fuel pump cycles on next cold start and see what that does. I'm also wondering if cold start typically improves once it's tuned?

Nigel, thanks for commenting on your Coyote cold start experience. Good to know.

[edwardb]

…The thing of interest was that the car takes a second of cranking to start from cold. When the engine is hot it starts back up almost instantly, but when it's cold I have to keep the starter cranking for about a second before the engine burps and little and then come to life. Is this normal?


my Coyote engine behaves in exactly the same way in regard to cold and hot starting.
Nigel


Hi Dan. My Gen 3 is behaving similarly. My gut says extended cranking on cold start is fuel related. So, I started some trial-and-error on my last cold start: before cranking over I ran the fuel pump three cycles by turning the "key" to the Run position. Turn key off. Repeat twice more. Crank motor over after the third cycle and it started much faster. I'm going to try only two fuel pump cycles on next cold start and see what that does. I'm also wondering if cold start typically improves once it's tuned?

My Gen 3 Coyote in my Coupe is exactly same way. Cranks for a second or two before starting. Whether it's been a day or after winter hibernation. Haven’t noticed a big difference between cold and hot. But haven’t really checked for that to be honest. The custom tune from Lund didn’t change the behavior. From my standpoint I agree this is totally normal. Not worth it or necessary to take additional measures IMO. Let if crank, start, and have fun. Obviously you guys haven’t been around long enough to “enjoy” the good old days with carbs and mechanical fuel pumps? 5-10 second cranks were considered normal in the day. :p

[Nigel Allen]

Fuel pump runs continuously on gen 1. I have dash mounted fuel pressure gauge. Fuel pressure is reached in under a second. Regardless, my Coyote takes a little more cranking when cold. I figure the ECM is doing what it wants and it is possibly an emissions thing. I will say it is a consistent amount of time and sounds exactly like the videos of other forum members cold starts. I wouldn't stress about it unless you have to try multiple times to get it to start.

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Sounds like the cold start cranking time is normal and nothing to worry about. TBH there's something cool about "my engine is too big it takes a while for it to start". LOL!


I'm no chemist (today's understatement) but I've used Permatex or Loctite thread sealant around brass fittings for many builds and never had any issue with oxidation. Looking at your pictures, is that amount of sealant left over after you completely tighten the fitting with the sealant coated on the threads? If so, I'd clean it up when you're done. It's not doing anything out there. The sealant only matters between the internal threads. Perhaps that amount of sealant turns color on its own. I don't know though. I never leave it like that. As a general statement, I'd be very surprised if you have a sealant issue.

Yes, it's the remaining thread sealant that's been "squeezed out" after tightening. I didn't wipe it all up since I didn't see the harm in letting it stay, but hindsight 20/20 I would have cleaned it up if I knew I was going to run into this. I looked at other fittings that used the same thread sealant. All of the brass fittings this sealant came in contact with has that bit of green, no matter if it's fitting the fuel pressure regulator, water temp sensor, or engine oil. The fittings that are not brass on the other hand, don't have the green.
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I asked some friends who studied chemistry/material science and they did confirm that it could be oxidization. The weird thing is that the green looks a little dark, but without knowing exactly what's in the sealant it's tough to say. I am, at this point, no longer worried about this and will just add it to my list of "things to check" once in a while. I will wipe it down where I can and call it a day.

[facultyofmusic]

After my first start I spent the remaining week and weekend in the mountains of Northern California hoping to disconnect and pull myself out of the daily routine. I found myself quite often just staring into the distance, wondering what’s next. For the past year it felt like it was my life’s mission to get this thing breathing within a year. I didn’t really plan further than that. Now that we’re here, we need a plan going forward.

I called Jeff Miller to get on the waitlist. Jeff was booked until November which was what was discussed on the recent posts. Jeff was so much fun to talk to and I had a blast. I asked him about the usual next steps after the first start and we discussed the possibilities of getting the car registered before sending it off to him for paint and finishing in November. It would require quite a bit of running around but with a bit more than 3 months left, I feel pretty confident about it.

I’ve also been talking with SJDave since he lives just around the proverbial corner. After much discussion I now have a pretty good plan towards the next milestone: Getting the car registered in California.
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There are many posts on this forum on California registration and the SB100 process, so I won’t go into too much detail here. I do, however, want to provide a tentative list of tasks for the car.

For a car to be registered it really just need a few things aside from the towing and running around:

Lights
Brakes
Mirrors
Smog (Exemption based on SB100)
Other obvious car things (e.g. a windshield that exists)
NOT windshield wipers (thank goodness!)


My plan from now to November is therefore to get these steps done while interleaving visits to the DMV and other authorities along the way. Oh, and the occasional go-karting of course :P

There is a very clear line of separation in the above steps: body fitment. I can’t determine the windshield mounting points without first fitting the body, neither can I the side and rear view mirrors. There are still many things I want to do on the car before the body goes on though, so we’ll get started on those first:


Lights and LED conversion
Trunk compartment accessible from the cockpit (similar to the breeze design)
Trunk support gas struts and placement
Trunk electrical accessories (extra USB and AUX power ports)
Panel gap sealing
Finish the ignition control panel box
Modify the RF fuse panel to be easily removable for windshield mounting.
… and other things I’ve probably forgotten.


The first item to tackle are the lights because I just don’t feel comfortable go-karting without braking and turning signal lights. I’ve purchased the breeze LED conversion kit, but the instructions don’t make too much sense to me yet.

Another long train of thought is the colour scheme of the car. I don’t mean the exact paint colour (although I DO have a pretty good idea of what I want), but rather the colour of the exterior components. I’ve been toying around with the idea of blacked-out exterior components to get that modern-classic look, but as cool as they seem they also look out of place on a classic cobra body. Blacking out everything is ALSO a lot of work compared to leaving it chrome. If I go with chrome components, then the only things I need to powdercoat are the roll-bars and my side pipes. If I go with blacked-out components, then that list gets quite long. I’ve been browsing the internet for inspiration on both sides. Boy this is a tough decision!

If possible I’d like to make the colour decision later down the line, but there are components that need to go on with the body and are not easy to take back off. I’ll have to make the decision before November.

[Fman]

Just a heads up on the SB100 registration process, it can take 3-10 months depending on what DMV you visit and who handles your emails and paperwork. Just beware there could be delays and have patience. Best of luck to you when you start the process.

[facultyofmusic]

Just a heads up on the SB100 registration process, it can take 3-10 months depending on what DMV you visit and who handles your emails and paperwork. Just beware there could be delays and have patience. Best of luck to you when you start the process.

Yeah totally :( The time delays on the process seems arbitrary sometimes. According to my limited research, the DMV at Los Gatos is the best one to go to because there are quite a lot of builders around that area, so over the years they've managed to get some experience dealing with SB100. It's entirely possible that I won't finish registration by the time I need to drop the car off at Jeff's. In that case, I'm sure I can finish the rest after I get the car back from him. Dave said the process used to be super straight forward. You'd just call the CHP stations and get it done in the same day. Now you'd have to book an appointment through the CHP offices in Sacramento a few weeks in advance.

[facultyofmusic]

There's this distinct noise from my steering rack whenever I turn the wheel all the way to the left or all the way to the right. It sounds like turbulent fluid flow (kinda like the sound a shower head makes around the bends). From what I've read this is "normal" noise that's caused by pressure build up when it can't turn anymore. The noise is really loud tho, much louder than that of my daily driver. How can I tell if it's normal or of it's something I need to look into?

[facultyofmusic]

It's been a while since the last update. I assure you I haven't been sitting idly by twiddling my thumbs! Well, I maybe have done a lot of that when going back and forth between the choice of colour... but you must understand that right?

(disclaimer: I know colour is a very subjective thing. Below are Dan's opinions. :p )

My nightly Google Images and Instagram browsing sessions usually end with me starring blankly at the wall trying to imagine what the colour would look like on a cobra. Being a youngster myself, the "dream cars" of mine are relatively modern. Modern cars can look real nice with flat colours, but the same flat colours don't jive too well with the classic body of the cobra. Porsche's "python green" is a great example. On a modern Porsche it looks super slick with black trim and components, but won't look very good on a cobra.
170223

Another idea I had early on was a "coffee" brown colour with bronze stripes. Googling "brown cars" quickly made me realize the other unsavoury things it looked like... so that idea was decarded. A lighter brown looked pretty good, but it wasn't the "coffee" colour I wanted.
170224

The two finalists were "Bay Side Blue" of Nissan GTR 50th Anniversary Edition and "Isle Of Man Green" of BMW M3 Competition. They are both "deep" metallic colours which totally fits the cobra. I'm not a BMW nerd myself. One day while out and about I saw an M3 competition with the "Isle Of Man Green"; it instantly turned my head and drew me in. I didn't even know it was a BMW at first, I just loved the paint so much.
170225 170226

I'll leave the final decision as a surprise. I'd be happy to have my car in either of those two colours, but I did end up liking one more than the other. Stay tuned!

While all that was going on I cleaned up some ugly wiring behind the dashboard. I trimmed out the sender/choke harness as well as the extra wires towards the dash harness. I'll be using the electric choke Hot On IGN wire to power the reverse lock-out module, but more on that later.
170227 170228

I also drilled out the rivets holding my fuse-panel to the driver-side foot box. I'm going to make it removable with enough free-play so I can plug-in/pull-out the windshield bracket pin. Still debating if I want to switch out my clutch line fitting to a 90 degree one to move it out of the way, but it seems fine the way it is now so I'm not too concerned about it.
170229

[Jeff Kleiner]

RE: "coffee brown colour with bronze stripes". Been there, done that, one of my favorites! :cool:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170234&d=1659102817

Cheers,
Jeff



170234

[facultyofmusic]

RE: "coffee brown colour with bronze stripes". Been there, done that, one of my favorites! :cool:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170234&d=1659102817

Cheers,
Jeff



170234

WOW! That looks really nice in the sun!

[Blitzboy54]

That BMW green is sick.

[facultyofmusic]

That BMW green is sick.

I agree ;)

If you haven't seen it in real life, I totally suggest walking into a BMW dealership just to see it. It's such a weirdly enchanting colour.

[JB in NOVA]

Picking a color was the hardest part of my build, hands down!

[facultyofmusic]

Time for a trunk cubby! There's the popular breeze mod, but I wanted one that's smaller with USB and accessory power plugs inside it for convenience. That way I can plug my phone in when I drive to charge it, and perhaps to power a speaker set too!

For future-proofing sake, I decided to route a set of BATT, ACC, and IGN hot wires to the rear. This way if I decide to add anything to my trunk in the future I can choose between all 3. For example: something like a cubby light will go on ACC, while a GPS tracking module will go on BATT. There are a few unused wires in my build so they were perfect for repurposing. I routed the heater wire to the back as my ACC power wire, and the ELEC. CHOKE wire to the back as my IGN power wire. I already had a cable that goes from the switched end of the my battery cut-off switch to the back, so I just cut that back open and routed the 2 new wires through it. Now in my trunk there are 3 holes: one for an additional rear brake/reverse/turn light bar, one for the reverse lockout module, and the third for power wires routed from the front.
170905

While I'm at it, I routed and connected the American Powertrain ELUN-10013 reverse lockout module. The idea here is for a little box of electronics detect when the vehicle isn't moving and activate the solenoid accordingly. Saw on on several other build threads, so I decided to use it too. The instructions of the lockout module mentioned VSS signal and VSS reference, but after asking in this thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43557-T56-Magnum-VSS-pigtail-Which-one-s-reference-and-which-one-s-signal) I found out it doesn't matter which way you connect it for the T56 since it's just a variable reluctance resistor. cool.
170906 170907

After routing the harnesses and sealing/securing them accordingly it's time to silicone and rivet the back wall panels. One last look at that beautiful rear end and suspension from the cockpit. Gonna miss this phase.
170908 170909

To get started on the cubby, I once again used some cardboard to mock out the shapes of the panels I need:
170910

Next I needed some aluminum panels to make the panels. I looked through my spare panels and couldn't find ones big enough for the whole cubby. SJDave asked around and told me about Campbell Metal Supply just a short drive away from my place. I went there and bought a few 1x4feet sheets of 5052 aluminum for half the price of what home depot sells them at. Woo! Guess who's never buying sheet metal from home depot ever again?
170911 170912

I transferred the cardboard shape onto the aluminum sheet, added tabs for attachment to the main panels and bent them with my bigger sheet metal brakes. I borrowed it from a friend who didn't need it for a while. It was a little awkward to use but it got the job done.
170913 170914

[facultyofmusic]

I test fitted the panels in the approximate location. I didn't want it to be too close to the roll-bar mounting points because I didn't want it to be a pain to install the bars. I left about an inch of space from the bar on each side and looked pretty good to me!
170915 170916

Next I temporarily installed the cockpit rear wall and drew some guiding line on it to figure out where the boundaries are. Then using a large diameter hole saw and an angle grinder I made a hole in the rear wall.
170917 170918

If you need on the two sides of the panel under the seatbelt holes you'll find some extra holes. I drilled those holes to make seatbelt assembly and disassembly easier. I realized that with the cubby, trunk lid strut, and a bunch of wires in place it's gonna be real tough reaching the seatbelt mounting points from the trunk opening once the body is on. I drilled holes just big enough for 3/4in sockets to fit through. It'll make seatbelt install/uninstall way easier. (verified later to be true. :) )
170919 170920

As for trunk cubby fitment it was excellent.
170921 170922 170923

[facultyofmusic]

with the panels fitted and tested, I closed up the box by making a rear panel. Again, just some sheet aluminum and a sheet metal brake. Some DIY fabbing :p
170925 170926 170924 170927

With the cubby all drilled and secured with clecos there isn't much else I want from the cockpit back wall. I added a fire extinguisher mount with quick release right under the cubby opening. It's a pretty sleek system! You pull the pin and the fire extinguisher comes right out. I especially love the huge red "PULL TO RELEASE" tag. Makes it look freaking awesome. The parts are H3R Performance MaxOut Fire Extinguishers MX250R (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HTR-MX250R) and H3R Performance Quick-Release Fire Extinguisher Mounting Brackets NB300 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/HTR-NB300).
170928

Seatbelt installation was super easy thanks to the rear wall holes. When I do my rear wall carpeting I'll find a way to cover it up while keeping it accessible.
170929 170930 170931 170932 170933

[egchewy79]

have you mocked up your seats yet? I'd be concerned about the extinguisher getting in the way where it's currently located.
also, I didn't have any issues with the seat belt bolts, putting them in from the rear and the nuts on the front. you can get a combo wrench in there from the trunk to hold the nuts while ratcheting the bolts. you'll need to remove your seats if you want to ever replace your seat belts, plus you'll need to have holes in your rear cockpit carpet to get at those bolts.

[Railroad]

Nice work. Just in case I missed it, you might want a light inside the cubby. I wired mine to come on with the headlight switch, foot box and glove box light.

[facultyofmusic]

have you mocked up your seats yet? I'd be concerned about the extinguisher getting in the way where it's currently located.
also, I didn't have any issues with the seat belt bolts, putting them in from the rear and the nuts on the front. you can get a combo wrench in there from the trunk to hold the nuts while ratcheting the bolts. you'll need to remove your seats if you want to ever replace your seat belts, plus you'll need to have holes in your rear cockpit carpet to get at those bolts.

Yes! I made sure to do that before I mounted it in that location. My legs are so short that there's a huge gap between the back of the seat the wall. I plan on making the passenger seats adjustable but I'll be sure to leave enough space for the extinguisher.

I hear you about the seat belt bolts. Without a picture of the final trunk setup it's difficult to explain how much stuff there will be next to the belt mount holts and roll-bar posts, but from a quick mock up I was convinced there's no way to get a wrench back there without temporarily removing a bunch of stuff. The holes in the car shouldn't be too hard to cover up, right?

[facultyofmusic]

Nice work. Just in case I missed it, you might want a light inside the cubby. I wired mine to come on with the headlight switch, foot box and glove box light.

That's the plan :p I plan to make a door for the cubby and use a contact switch to turn the light on/off with the door.

[toadster]

Nice work. Just in case I missed it, you might want a light inside the cubby. I wired mine to come on with the headlight switch, foot box and glove box light.

1 second this notion, I put in 2 LED light strips that will be turned on with the headlight switch, the front part lights the cubby, and the rear part the trunk (see yellow highlights in pic below)
I'll tie them in tandem so I can see in the cubby if I let the trunk lights on - no sense coming out to a dead battery ;)

170949

[facultyofmusic]

In post #188 and #189 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Trunk-Accessory-Power-and-Cubby&p=482521&viewfull=1#post482521) I detailed the making if my ignition panel box. It's a little box with a slanted surface that matches the slant of the dashboard with a bunch of switches on it for ignition control. While it looked good, my initial design was one that prioritized saving panel material because I simply didn't have much of it left at the time. The resulting box works, but is rather flimsy as it's missing 2 faces a normal rectangular prism. The structural rigidity just isn't there. What's worse is that the ignition control panel has these super beefy switches that take a lot to toggle. With the flimsy box I could feel the whole thing flex every time I toggle those switches. Yuck... didn't feel good at all.

Now that I've just bought a few shiny sheets of aluminum, I decided to remake the box. This time much studier than before. I copied the dimensions of the old box onto a blank sheet of aluminum, cut it out, and folded it with the help of my press brakes. There were areas where two corners met which were super tricky to get right. For those corners I used a hammer and my vise's various jaw surfaces as makeshift anvils to hammer them flat. Worked out pretty well in the end.
171126 171124 171125

With 3 faces made from a single sheet of aluminum it was much sturdier already! I completed the box my making a top and bottom face. The rear will secured onto the firewall, so no face needed there.
171127 171128 171129 171130 171131

I added screw holes to the firewall along the edge of the box using rivet-nuts and secured the box to the firewall. I'm SUPER happy with it. The new box wouldn't budge a bit! Now the switches feel like they are literally attached to the chassis itself. Big win today!
171132 171133

[toadster]

In post #188 and #189 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Trunk-Accessory-Power-and-Cubby&p=482521&viewfull=1#post482521) I detailed the making if my ignition panel box. It's a little box with a slanted surface that matches the slant of the dashboard with a bunch of switches on it for ignition control. While it looked good, my initial design was one that prioritized saving panel material because I simply didn't have much of it left at the time. The resulting box works, but is rather flimsy as it's missing 2 faces a normal rectangular prism. The structural rigidity just isn't there. What's worse is that the ignition control panel has these super beefy switches that take a lot to toggle. With the flimsy box I could feel the whole thing flex every time I toggle those switches. Yuck... didn't feel good at all.

Now that I've just bought a few shiny sheets of aluminum, I decided to remake the box. This time much studier than before. I copied the dimensions of the old box onto a blank sheet of aluminum, cut it out, and folded it with the help of my press brakes. There were areas where two corners met which were super tricky to get right. For those corners I used a hammer and my vise's various jaw surfaces as makeshift anvils to hammer them flat. Worked out pretty well in the end.
171126 171124 171125

With 3 faces made from a single sheet of aluminum it was much sturdier already! I completed the box my making a top and bottom face. The rear will secured onto the firewall, so no face needed there.
171127 171128 171129 171130 171131

I added screw holes to the firewall along the edge of the box using rivet-nuts and secured the box to the firewall. I'm SUPER happy with it. The new box wouldn't budge a bit! Now the switches feel like they are literally attached to the chassis itself. Big win today!
171132 171133

nice job! I feel your pain on creating these new 'things' that aren't in the original config :)

[John Ibele]

Nice job with the aluminum fab! I think about the joys that would come with a box brake every time I have those two bends in a corner. Took an approach similar to yours and in the end works out fine. Todd's right about the additional time / pain associated with any wanders away from the standard build components. But, seems worth it in terms of getting a truly custom car.

Hadn't thought about making the console box a floating box - that's cool. I'm still puzzling through exactly how I'm gonna fasten mine to the 'A frame' and tranny top. Thanks for sharing your approach.

[facultyofmusic]

This is a revision of post #180 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Remaking-The-Ignition-Panel-Box&p=483785&viewfull=1#post483785)where I modified and installed the coyote gas pedal. When trimming pedal to make it fit the footbox I had accidentally trimmed it a bit too much such that the red rotating part of the pedal was showing a little. I did some research online and apparently I wasn't the only one that did this. Although it didn't seem like a big deal at the time it's always been on the back of my mind. To settle this once and for all I decided to figure out exactly how the pedal works. I couldn't find diagrams of the pedal assembly anywhere so purchased another pedal just to take it apart and see what's inside it.

While the pedal itself isn't very expensive I still wanted to take it apart without damaging it. Try as I may I could not unclip the tabs that held it together so I ended up pretty much destroying every single one of them. I swear I tried my best, ok? It's worth it... for science.

Mechanically the pedal was really quite simple. There's a big rotating assembly with a large spring pushing on the other side of the fulcrum. The red part that was exposed is just a part of the rotating shaft. Probably a coating to reduce friction.
171267 171268 171270

On the rotating shaft is a metal target plate used by the RF inductive rotary position sensor. The sensor itself is completely sealed on the other half of the pedal housing.
171271 171269

The part that I "trimmed too much" is the housing that holds the shaft in place. That part is well reinforced on the inside as well so I've determined my accidental mishap is fine. The assembly still rotates smoothly and I see no possible way for the pedal to be "stuck" in some position. The sensor itself is on the other side and complete sealed so there's no chance of that being damaged either. RF inductive rotary position sensors are very accurate and "dust and waterproof" since the sensor itself doesn't actually contact with the metal target plate. It makes sense that Ford uses it given that the pedal housing itself isn't airtight.
171272

So that settles it. No more worrying on my end!

P.S. I'm NOT suggesting that one should feel free to over-trim the pedal housing. It's just that if you did by accident then I think you're okay as long as the rotating part still moves freely with good integrity.

[facultyofmusic]

In post #352 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Roadster-Build-Inside-the-Coyote-Throttle-Pedal&p=500033&viewfull=1#post500033) we made a trunk cubby for extra cockpit-accessible storage. I planned to add extra accessory and USB power outlets to the cubby so I can charge by phone / power some accessories from it.

The most time was spent on deciding where the fuse-panel should be. I wanted to mount it to the driver side cubby panel facing the trunk, but after some mock-ups I didn't like it because it left very little space for working on the roll-bars and the fuse-panel would be very hard to access from the trunk. I ended up mounting it to the rear facing cubby panel. It'll be openly visible with an open trunk, but that's okay. I had another fuse-panel lying around so I hooked that one up to the switched-battery power wire. That wire is much thicker and can carry a lot more current so if I want to add any heavier duty accessories in the future I can add some relays and power it from that instead. Right now it's just sitting there not connected to anything. I understanding that trying to "future-proof" the project is kinda like trying to future-proof your computer (in that it's pretty futile) but might as well try right?
171667 171666

I bought some daisy-chained white LEDs that can also be powered individually. I used two of them to light the trunk and the cubby. The 6-way fuse box was super handy and made connecting the lights super easy. I'm very happy about that purchase.
171668 171669 171670

With all the cables and stuff exposed I figured I should cover it up with a flap of some kind. Don't want random thing rolling around back there with the wires. Did a mock-up with cardboard and will one day turn that into aluminum attached via piano-hinge.
171671 171672

I also used cardboard to mock-up a glove-box cover. It looks a little high in the pictures but IRL it feels fine. I got some foam-backed felt from amazon I'd like to try. The plan is to cut the shape out of sheet aluminum and wrap it in the felt material. I wonder what a different texture for glove-box would look like. Looks good in my imagination... but we'll have to see.
171673 171674 171675

[facultyofmusic]

Was talking with the lady of the house about go-karting around. She's the worrying type, and absolutely thinks the car is too dangerous. She's... not wrong, but I didn't build this thing to leave it in the garage.

A few months ago on a warm summer evening stroll we saw a cobra that looked like it wrapped itself around a fire hydrant and then rolled over a few times just off the local main road. The way the roll-bars were mounted looked like it's a Superformance cobra not a factory five, but that's besides the point. A week later on my way to work I saw flowers placed around the new fire hydrant; the old one, like the cobra driver, didn't make it out alive. I couldn't find much about the incident on the forum. Rumors on the local neighbourhood forums said the driver was an old man who indeed did not make it out alive. I've heard at least 5 people tell me in person that mishandling a cobra is attempted suicide. None of them hit me as hard as seeing it happen right around the corner. I think about the scene from time to time. The road stained with oil and radiator fluid, the flowers, and the roll bar that's been bent out of shape. It would be me if I'm not careful.

We had several long conversations about the safety of driving on public roads, and in the end we agreed that while low back seats look cool, they expose the head too much. The low back seats also don't have a hole for the submarine belt. I know there are mods that "add" the hole, but this combined with other safety factors made racing bucket seats a much more attractive option. We went to the race shop at Sonoma Raceway and purchased a set of Sparco Pro 2000 bucket-seats. I sat in a bunch of them at the shop and these felt the best. I plan to use these in the roadster instead of the factory five provided low-back seats.
173007

You'd think the low back seats are gonna be wasted right? Turns out they are excellent floor seats! Now I watch TV sitting on my low-back seats on the floor. They feel great! Haha!

We also purchased an open-face helmet and a hans-device. I made sure to purchase a hans-device with a high degree of neck rotational freedom so I can check my blind spots and look around when I need to. The open-face helmet, too, was chosen such that it barely blocks my peripheral vision. The idea here is that if I ever go on a medium-long trip that involves a lot of traffic or the highway, I should wear it. If I get T-boned I'm gonna be toast, but a bit of confidence in other situations help. Safety is a topic of never-ending opinions. Some say why build a cobra if you're gonna be so scared? Some say why drive a cobra without a flame suit? I'm sure some of you would snicker at a guy who wears a helmet and hans on a public road. Just don't tell me you did. That way I won't mind. :p

She and I also agreed that I won't go-kart the car until I have all the lights installed. That way at least the cars around me will know if I'm braking or turning. That's not a bad idea. So I decided to get the lights onto the car. Before that I tidied the dashboard wires to a state that's more "plug-and-play"-able. I just don't like the look of messy wires dangling around. It's nothing like John or Paul's clean wire bundles, but at least it ain't flopping left to right.
173008 173009

The body won't be anywhere in sight for a while, so I gotta mount it another way. I had some oriented strand board lying around doin nothin, so I made temporary mounting boards for the lights. Made appropriate holes for the headlights and turning signals then spray painted it black.
173010 173011 173012

It actually looks pretty cool from a distance!
173013 173014

I gotta figure out the rear light converter so the rear lights will go on later. I've read quite a few threads about it and it all makes sense. I just gotta do it. I WILL say tho, I WISH I did the converter install before sealing up my trunk aluminum. The firewall is already a mess and I'm not looking forward to complicating it more with a converter dangling in there.

The next morning I did my routine mental inventory work of the FFR shipment boxes. I was pleasantly surprised to find that there's only ONE more box to open! I remember the day I piled the mountain of boxes in the shed wondering when I'll ever get through them. Today's the day! The contents of Box 7A saw the light of day for the first time since its time at FFR. It's a bittersweet moment moment opening up that last box. Hehe.
173015

Lord knows this ain't the last car-related box I'll open.

[edwardb]

Totally understand and applaud your concern about safety. Especially when something bad happens that close to you. Had something similar in our area a couple years ago. A real wake-up call. But a couple of comments if you don't mind. While there are many what I consider alarming posts about these cars, it's still ultimately about the driver and not as much about the car IMO. Granted, that doesn't take into account other drivers and the harm they can dish out. Defensive driving is critically important no matter what you drive (seems especially where I live, but I think it's a universal problem...) but even more so in one of these because you have fewer protections. But at the end of the day, I think you're going to be surprised how well the car drives and how stable it is when driven within reason. Save the crazy stuff, if that's you, for autocross, the track, etc. and drive within reason on the street and I think you'll be very pleased and no reason to drive scared. Yes the car will bite you if you don't respect it. But that's true of every car at some level. You don't know the circumstances of what happened with the accident by you. It might be related to the car. Or it might not. The recent accident by me (also fatal, sadly) was excessive speed on a freeway in cold temps compounded by early morning and a slightly wet road surface. Yes, the car may have encouraged the behavior. But ultimately it was the driver's fault.

Regarding your go-kart. This is a somewhat sensitive subject for me and I've posted my opinion about it multiple times. The go-kart step is a rite of passage during these builds that everyone seems to go for. Which I understand and do myself. It's the first chance to experience a running chassis that moves, brakes, shifts, steers, etc. under its own power. Definitely a motivator for the build! But IMO it's not a replacement for an actual test drive and shakedown once the car is actually finished, titled, licensed, insured, etc. I see videos and descriptions of guys running at full speed, in traffic, sometimes doing crazy stuff IMO (donuts, etc.) and makes me very nervous. My personal go-karts are going up and down my neighborhood street in first and maybe second a couple times and that's it. There's almost always no other cars. That's enough safety and legal exposure for me, confirms all is working, and gets me ready for the next build steps. No complaints about you making sure you have lights, etc. But maybe scope the process down a bit to where that and other steps aren't as critical.

OK, off my soapbox. Good luck. Enjoy the build and look forward to great fun cruising when it's done. That's what it's about.

[Jeff Kleiner]

So you're planning to use a helmet and HANS and make all of the lights function so that you can go-cart in traffic? Might I suggest that your put your efforts into getting the car finished, properly registered, licensed and insured instead. Like my friend Paul I don't don't look at go-carting as any more than an initial functional check. All the cars that I've built have never racked up more than a mile or two on my seldom traveled country road in go-cart form. I don't get the guys who tell us about hitting 50 or 100 miles as a go-cart like it's some sort of a badge of honor or accomplishment---to be blunt I think it's foolish. But you do you, and I'll get off of my soapbox too.

Jeff

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks for the words of caution Paul and Jeff. I assure you I'm NOT go-karting on the main road. I'm go-karting around my local block back and forth. Only 2 miles on the speedo so far. I suppose I made it sound like I'm doing all the safety stuff just for go-karting. It's a more general consideration for the build. :)

[facultyofmusic]

Decided to fit the carpet and upholstery around my trunk cubby box. I want to install the rear cockpit panel soon, but fitting the carpet then would be more difficult so we're doing it now. Before doing too much I layed out some of the carpet. Gotta say, they are cut a lot better than I thought they'd be. Fits like a glove everywhere I tried! Kudos to FFR.

I bought some foam-backed suede fabric material for the insides of the cubby. The walls of the cubby will have the suede on all surfaces visible from the cubby/trunk. The carpet's cut to fit the area taken up by the cubby as well as the driver side of the cubby. That area I'm leaving open as that's where I'll put all my trunk electronics and I'll put an access door so stuff in the trunk won't roll into it. The access door is mocked up with cardboard in the first picture below.
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I decided to also glue on the cubby panel fabric. The carpet can be glued down later.
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Pretty slick eh? The outer vertical edges of the cubby has exposed foam material. I purchased some plastic trims which I'll glue onto the edge to cover it up. I took a candid picture of the trunk in progress one afternoon and loved the lighting. Thought I might share:
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Circling back to the front for a bit; I replaced the hacked-up flimsy dash-mounting holes with stronger aluminum tabs with rivnuts installed. Now they ALWAYS point forward and I can secure my dash with screws instead of clecos. Yay!
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You can also see that I've started fitting the under-dash carpet for my ignition control panel box. That's next.

[facultyofmusic]

The ignition control box I added right under the center-dash is another piece of interior that deviates from the FFR manual. This time it's not too much work on the carpet. I drew an outline of the box and cut out that area in the carpet.
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As for the box itself I used a generous amount of 3M Super77 on the foam backed suede fabric and slapped it on the box as required. I folded the bottom fold down under the box so it can't be seen from any angle except the bottom. I trimmed the fold on the top edge since that part is completely covered by the dash anyway.
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Here it is mounted on the firewall:
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Here it is with the dashboard mounted too:
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I'm super happy with how it turned out! Dare I say it looks like it was designed to be there since the start. :p The suede material of the box blends seamlessly into the surrounding carpet. The carpet also smoothes out the bumps created by the screws used to secure the box in place. I thought I had to do something about that part and I'm glad I don't.

I think the only thing left before bodywork is the glovebox and some misc bibs and bobs. I'm really excited to work on the body since it's been sitting there for over a year now and all I've ever done is look at it. I plan to do the minimum amount of work necessary to get the body safely onto the chassis so I can haul it to Jeff Miller when he gives me the call. I think the current schedule is sometime in November. It's more than a month away, but unlike my college schoolwork I don't plan to be late for this one :p

[John Ibele]

I love seeing builders fab items from scratch. You've got yours in the most visible possible area on the car and it looks great. Nice job.

[facultyofmusic]

Alright, I got some questions about paint. As much as I’d like to leave it as a surprise the utility of this forum cannot be understated. The colour I've decided on is a deep emerald green. Ideally BMW’s Isle of Man Green, or whatever closest thing to it I can get.
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My question is, if I have the paint code, am I sure to get that colour and "glow" effect of the paint? What I like about it is the way it reflects light. It's a hollow-ish kind of glow. Is there some special painting technique required to do that, or is it just paint magic? If I get the BMW paint code, is that enough?

As for the stripes... I saw a picture of someone’s cobra on instagram and I fell in love with the way the stripes looked. It looked like bright metallic silver underneath a coat of high polish clear coat. Combined with the emerald green color of the paint it glows under the light in different ways depending on the angle you’re looking at it. (if this is your car I'm sorry I stole your pic. I couldn't find the post again.)
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I don't know how to get the paint code for the grey. I'll spend a day going around my local dealerships and look at their shades of silver/grey. Hopefully I'll find what I'm looking for.

[egchewy79]

awesome choice. reminds me of a michigan state football helmet. I'm sure some of the master builders/painters will chime in on the paint.

[rthomas98]

Question, have you gone to a BMW dealer and seen it in person? I found that many times I looked at pictures it was very different once I saw it in person.

[Jeff Kleiner]

That looks like it may be a 3 stage. If so you’re gonna’ need to talk with Miller because he usually won’t do tri-coats.

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

I'm not a fan of green cars but that could change my mind! You could park that car in a hundred green cars and say "Mine is the green one" and everyone would know which car is yours.

[facultyofmusic]

Yes! I wanted the colour because I saw it in person one day and couldn't take my eyes off of it. It looked SO good under sun light.

[facultyofmusic]

That looks like it may be a 3 stage. If so you’re gonna’ need to talk with Miller because he usually won’t do tri-coats.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I'll shoot Miller a message.

[facultyofmusic]

Received by side-pipe heat shields from cobra stuff. I opted for the ceramic coated version. It's not as shiny as the chrome one, but it will deal with the heat a lot better. I had some trouble mounting the shields onto the exhaust clamps though. The heat shield doesn't curve enough towards the ends of the wrap:
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I emailed Alex at cobrastuff and he replied saying I need to loosen the bolts a bit and really squeeze. I wasn't a fan of that because if I squeeze the sides the middle will bulge out and have an awkward cigar-shape. Luckily I had my sheet metal brakes that were large enough to fit the shields. I protected the shields with some towel to prevent scratching as well as softening the bend and bent the edges incrementally bit by bit.
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...and now it fits like a glove!
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[460.465USMC]

Thanks for the heads-up, Dan. I'm making a note, as I'm going to eventually order from this vendor as well, but ceramic coated black.

[facultyofmusic]

"Fools learn from experience, I want to learn from the experience of others." I should repeat that to myself more :rolleyes: Its only been 1mile on go-kart and the front UCA ball-joint boot is already on its last legs. Paul (edwardb) warned about this in his build threads and recommended the Energy Suspension 5.13102G upper boots (https://teamenergysuspension.com/product/energy-suspension-5-13102g-ball-joint-dust-boot-set/) as an replacement.
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I had actually purchased the boots a while ago but was just too "lazy" to install it. I like to think of it as "I'm curious as to how long it takes for the current ones to break, for science." Unfortunately it wasn't until the moment that I needed it did I realize I purchased the wrong item. I bought the Energy Suspension 9.13101G tie-rod boots (https://teamenergysuspension.com/product/energy-suspension-9-13101g-tie-rod-end-boot/) instead. Thought I could use it instead of the boot on the FFR provided tie-rod but it doesn't fit. Sooo... if anyone wants this tie-rod boot send me a PM and I'll send it your way. (if this comment is here that means it's still available.) :)
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Luckily Summit Racing had them in stock and was able to ship it to me super quick and I had it just 2 days later. The new boots are MUCH more elastic and slippery. Looks like these will work!
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While I was waiting for the correct boots to arrive I had an idea about sealing the large hole near the top of the driver-side firewall panel where the reservoir lines come out. I was going to use a rubber plug for it, but didn't have a good way to put holes in rubber. So instead I got some generic rubber boot grommets and made an asterisk shaped cut at the tip which formed 6 triangular tabs, removed every other tab so it had 3 openings and 3 tabs. The idea here is that the lines will go through the opening and the space between the lines will be filled by the tabs. It worked pretty well! I like the look! I also have 2 of these boots left. If you want one PM me and I'll put one in the mail for ya (if this comment is here that means it's still available).
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I ended the night by installing the coolant hose clamps from breeze.
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Remember to PM me if you need the stuff! I still have 4 fuel-resistant crimp-and-shrink wrap from #134 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Mk4-Build-Side-pipe-heat-shields-on!&p=481057&viewfull=1#post481057)!

[Glen Davis]

The difference between Wisdom and Experience:
Experience is what you learn by doing it yourself.
Wisdom is learning from someone else's experience.

[facultyofmusic]

Noticed that my bell-housing lower lip is extended pretty far under the main tube frames. There are no bolts there nor does it look like it's holding anything together. Does anyone have any words of caution before I take a grinder to it and flatten it out?
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[egchewy79]

Noticed that my bell-housing lower lip is extended pretty far under the main tube frames. There are no bolts there nor does it look like it's holding anything together. Does anyone have any words of caution before I take a grinder to it and flatten it out?
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yup, that's going to need some cutting.

[JohnK]

Couple of thoughts. Yes, it could use a little trimming, but be careful how much you trim off. I didn't want to trim off so much that I expose the bell housing cavity to debris entering, so that means that you can really only trim off the mounting flange of the bell housing. Also, while it's lower than the 4" frame member, it's not that much lower than the oil pan. If I had to chose what makes contact, I'd much rather the hardened steel bell housing be the thing that takes a blow vs. the oil pan.

What I did was to lay a straightedge along the oil pan and scribe a line on the bell housing block off plate. I then double-checked to make sure I wasn't going to trim off so much that I opened up a hole into the bell housing cavity. This is how much I ended up trimming off. Keep in mind that the bell housing is some pretty hard steel.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173608&d=1665428570

[facultyofmusic]

Couple of thoughts. Yes, it could use a little trimming, but be careful how much you trim off. I didn't want to trim off so much that I expose the bell housing cavity to debris entering, so that means that you can really only trim off the mounting flange of the bell housing. Also, while it's lower than the 4" frame member, it's not that much lower than the oil pan. If I had to chose what makes contact, I'd much rather the hardened steel bell housing be the thing that takes a blow vs. the oil pan.

What I did was to lay a straightedge along the oil pan and scribe a line on the bell housing block off plate. I then double-checked to make sure I wasn't going to trim off so much that I opened up a hole into the bell housing cavity. This is how much I ended up trimming off. Keep in mind that the bell housing is some pretty hard steel.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173608&d=1665428570

Thanks for the straight edge idea! I didn't think of that. And yeah I agree with the oil pan vs bell housing point. :P

[Al_C]

I had the same issue. I drew a line basically from the bottom of each of the two bolt holes, eliminating the bottom bolt hole. That worked pretty well. I only lost one bolt in the process. Yes, the steel there is quite hard, and it was challenging to get a straight line with an angle grinder. The good news it that no one will see your work unless the car is on a lift! My best advice is to wear a full face shield when you do it. Goggles alone won't offer you all that much protection.

[facultyofmusic]

Spent a good hour shaving off the bottom of the bell housing. What can I say except HOLY **** IS THAT STEEL TOUGH. Initially I tried using a flap disc and it made a tiny dent in the bell housing after a few good seconds of grinding. At that point I knew I wasn't getting anywhere with a flap disc. Like Al_C said, I made a cut that connected to two side holes, eliminating the middle hole.
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It doesn't look pretty at all, but I'm at a point where I'm completely okay with it looking like that until I put this thing on a real lift. I've had enough of laying under the car with sparking flying all over my work suit. It still sticks below the frame by less than half an inch, but it's a lot better than what it was before. I'll grind the rest off some other day.

I also spent some time yesterday installing the wilwood brake bias adjuster. It's been covered many times on other build threads and the optimal location seems to be next to the fuse-panel in the driver footbox. I copied the tried and true solution. See this thread for a more detailed discussion: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36536-Wilwood-remote-bias-adjuster-will-this-location-work
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Two things to note:


First, the tilton right angle coupler's cable end hole isn't big enough wilwood's cable. You'll have to enlarge it a tiny bit.
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Second, I've seen some builders use the 3/8-24 collar nut provided by wilwood, the one used to "lock" the bar in place for those who don't plan to adjust brake bias after it's dialed in. Do not use that nut to secure the tilton coupler's bias-bar end. The collar can get caught on the clevis knuckle and there's no way to free it unless you pull it up a little by hand. Use a 3/8-24 jam-nut instead. You can turn the collar nut into a jam-nut by grinding off the collar if you want. I just had a jam-nut laying around.
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[facultyofmusic]

Boy it's been a while since the last update! I've been so busy wrenching and cranking it out that I barely had time to take pictures! Let's catch up.

Starting California Registration

Like many other topics, this one has had many detailed threads on it. I'm not going to repeat the general registration process. What I hope to do here is to provide some information that may help folks specifically around my area. If you're looking for general information on CA registration, here are a few fantastic threads that I consulted:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33147-California-SB100-Registration
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?5550-The-california-registration-process-for-SB100

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I went to the DMV on Tuesday morning of last week. I specifically chose to go to the DMV in Los Gatos. Wisdom from the builders in the area points towards that DMV because they've simply seen more SPCNS and SB100 processes. This is super important has SB100 is a process that most DMV employees never see. A DMV location with employees who've done this before saves a ton of headaches. If you're in the Bay Area, I recommend the Los Gatos DMV. This DMV is also less crowded, which, I can verify as I went 30 mins early and was already the 6th in line.

I was placed at window #10. I said "I would like to register a self-built car." The lady at the desk (her name was Jill) asked me if I had a VIN number. I said no. She then immediately told me they can't do anything if a car doesn't have a VIN. It's important at this moment to quickly tell them that you are applying for the very forms and permits to allow you to get a VIN; that and show her the STATEMENT OF CONSTRUCTION. When I did this she immediately realized what's happening and started the process for me. I waited there as she went through all my documents.

Moments later she called me up again to discuss the COST OF CONSTRUCTION. On my form, I listed everything I could find and brought all my receipts. She went through every single one with me again and crossed off a bunch of misc. items such as the battery and some construction bits and bobs because they weren't "Cost of construction". She also crossed out "self labor" and specifically told me they do not take self labor into account. So on your statement of construction, just leave it blank. She made a point to circle the FFR kit receipt and the engine receipt. If I could do it again, I'd circle the kit and engine costs in big circles because that's what she looked for the most. I paid the taxes on the construction and waited there again as she processed further paperwork.

When she returned all my documents she did NOT give me a temporary permit. I got her attention and pleaded that "I cannot complete the next steps if I can't drive my car to these places you've listed." She was very sympathetic and came back a moment later with a temporary permit that allowed me to drive my car until November 30th. MAKE SURE YOU GET A TEMP PERMIT. THE FORM THEY GIVE YOU IS NOT A PERMIT.

The overall process took only 30 mins. That's a LOT better than I expected. I walked out that day with a temp permit and instructions on the next steps: CHP VIN Verification and Smog.

If you're reading this and will be heading to the DMV, see if you can go on Tuesday morning and ask for Jill. She'll probably remember and it will be much quicker for you.

[JohnK]

Hopefully right behind you. I'll be calling you to pick your brain when I get to that point.

[EZ$]

I had to get a Brake & Light inspection, and the VIN verification at the CHP was the easiest for me. They used my stamped frame number from FFR as the VIN. Then I had to contact a BAR "virtual Rep" by phone. He wanted copies of all the documents, pictures of the car, and pictures of the engine bay showing the closed loop PCV system emailed to him. Once he approves it, he will provide the phone number for the BAR station that you decide to go to. The good thing about sending all the documents and pictures was that I was pre-approved, and the inspection was only a formality. Was in and out of the BAR station in less than a half hour. Then it's on to the DMV to pick up your plates. Just as a note, unless things go extremely well during all this, the temporary may not give you enough time to complete everything. Worst case you can get one day passes that you don't fill in the day until you are actually going to use them. I hope everything goes well for you guys. They ran me around because of the stack injection, and it created a number of issues for me.

[facultyofmusic]

I had to get a Brake & Light inspection, and the VIN verification at the CHP was the easiest for me. They used my stamped frame number from FFR as the VIN. Then I had to contact a BAR "virtual Rep" by phone. He wanted copies of all the documents, pictures of the car, and pictures of the engine bay showing the closed loop PCV system emailed to him. Once he approves it, he will provide the phone number for the BAR station that you decide to go to. The good thing about sending all the documents and pictures was that I was pre-approved, and the inspection was only a formality. Was in and out of the BAR station in less than a half hour. Then it's on to the DMV to pick up your plates. Just as a note, unless things go extremely well during all this, the temporary may not give you enough time to complete everything. Worst case you can get one day passes that you don't fill in the day until you are actually going to use them. I hope everything goes well for you guys. They ran me around because of the stack injection, and it created a number of issues for me.

Thanks Rick! Did you have any trouble requesting for an SB100 sequence number at all? I know that I can only get it after the CHP gives me my VIN, so I plan to return to the DMV the day after I get my VIN. Do you recall what you said to request for your SB100 sequence number?

[EZ$]

Forgot that minor item! I explained when I first went to DMV that I wanted to receive an SB100 number, and they told me I needed the VIN number from the CHP, and a brake and light inspection. Luckily my mechanic shop where I take my DD is also a brake and light inspection station. I believe once I had those items and took that paperwork back to DMV that they called for my sequence number. Hopefully your DMV agent is not dyslexic like mine was. She wrote #504 on all my paperwork even though I tried to tell her that there were only 500 number. Turns out my number was 54. Anyhow, once they tell you what you sequence number is they'll give you the phone number to call the BAR, but you can't get an appointment till the virtual agent gets all the requested information. Then, and only then, they'll give you the phone number of the BAR station you want to go to, and you have to call for an appointment. Sometimes they're busy and it'll put you out a month or so. You could get lucky like me and get an appointment the following week. Sorry for the disjointed info. My process was interrupted by my appointment with my painter, which took one year, and caused a few issues that I had to work through.
By the way, when my family came to California, we lived in Sunnyvale off of Mary and Evelyn. I graduated from Sunnyvale High School in '68. Crap am I old!

[facultyofmusic]

Forgot that minor item! I explained when I first went to DMV that I wanted to receive an SB100 number, and they told me I needed the VIN number from the CHP, and a brake and light inspection. Luckily my mechanic shop where I take my DD is also a brake and light inspection station. I believe once I had those items and took that paperwork back to DMV that they called for my sequence number. Hopefully your DMV agent is not dyslexic like mine was. She wrote #504 on all my paperwork even though I tried to tell her that there were only 500 number. Turns out my number was 54. Anyhow, once they tell you what you sequence number is they'll give you the phone number to call the BAR, but you can't get an appointment till the virtual agent gets all the requested information. Then, and only then, they'll give you the phone number of the BAR station you want to go to, and you have to call for an appointment. Sometimes they're busy and it'll put you out a month or so. You could get lucky like me and get an appointment the following week. Sorry for the disjointed info. My process was interrupted by my appointment with my painter, which took one year, and caused a few issues that I had to work through.
By the way, when my family came to California, we lived in Sunnyvale off of Mary and Evelyn. I graduated from Sunnyvale High School in '68. Crap am I old!

Thanks for the valuable info! I actually live right around Mary and Evelyn! :p If you ever visit Sunnyvale please feel free to stop by!

[facultyofmusic]

I purchased Mike Forte's windshield mounting brackets. (https://fortesparts.com/product/factory-5-quick-release-windshield-brackets/) I was convinced after seeing both Dave (SJDave) and John (JohnK) had them on their build and looked like it would save a ton of time. To find the correct orientation of the brackets I used spacers made by Dave. They slide snug into the brackets with protrusions that fit into the original mounting holes. It's a super quick and straightforward!
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I purchased some 5/16-18 flange head nuts and bolts to secure the brackets once I had it aligned with Dave's spacers.
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The windshield posts were a little tricky to put on. No pictures here... just don't screw the first one all the way in. Screw all the screws in a little to make sure they all catch and then fasten it down. When inserting the posts into the brackets I noticed the posts were cut quite rough, so I chamfered the post where it inserts into the brackets and it slid in super easily. I gotta say, I was expecting one hell of a time getting the windshield to slide in. I mean... it's a huge thin piece of glass... with brass posts that attaches with a few screws... you'd expect to need some twisting and fitting no?

Anyway, IT'S ON! I haven't drilled the windshield posts yet because I don't yet know how high the body will prop it up. I plan to drill the holes after final mount and paint at Jeff's.
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I taped my temp operating permit on the top passenger side of the windshield. I'll call it a day here!
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After I took that picture of the car I sank into a bittersweet mood. Tomorrow Dave, Kevin, and Herman will stop by to install the body. By the end of tomorrow the car won't look like this anymore. It feels like the "build" part of the car has come to an end. No more installing of major drivetrain components, no more figuring out how to make the car run. I understand that there's still a lot of work left to do, but once the body goes on everything else just feels like aesthetics. I really do like the way it looks right now and I almost wish I can just drive it like this forever. :p

The first start was a few months ago, and tomorrow will be the next big milestone. I'm excited!

[John Ibele]

After I took that picture of the car I sank into a bittersweet mood. Tomorrow Dave, Kevin, and Herman will stop by to install the body. By the end of tomorrow the car won't look like this anymore. It feels like the "build" part of the car has come to an end.

Oh, man, I've been building so long I didn't anticipate this. Maybe the cake's baked, but the frosting's not on. Who doesn't like frosting?

[facultyofmusic]

A while ago I scheduled with Dave and Thomas to help me with installing the body. Dave got Kevin and Herman too and we all decided to meet on Saturday bright and early. Once again I couldn't really sleep the night before :p

Before that, I spent some time doing "frame alignment" where I make sure the front quick jack holes are exactly 30 inches apart and that the center of the left and right quick jacks lines up exactly with the center of the front wheels. Was pretty easy to do. I transformed a stepped drill bit into a plumb bob using a string and some tape then used it to cast 4 points onto the floor. 2 points for left and right front suspension top bolt, 2 points for left and right quick jack holes. My quick jack holes were 30 1/2in apart and biased to the driver's side by about 3/8in. Used my dead-blow hammer and whacked it until everything lined up like Jeff suggested. Didn't take long at all! Now I know my front wheels will line up with the body just right. :p
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I opened my garage door to find everyone already there waiting. How I didn't hear them coming in their cobras I have no idea. Must've been microwaving or something. Anyway we got our gloves and lifted body off the buck, around the house, and onto the front lawn. Boy that fiberglass body sure is light when you have 5 people carrying it! The guys then took out their sanders and grinders and went to town on the body. When I planned this with Dave he said "see the reason why it's a lot faster with other guys helping you is because we'll take a grinder to your body no problem while you'll be all paranoid and ****". He's right. I don't think I'd work with as much "gusto" as the guys did :p

Within 30mins the edges were all sanded and trimmed back a little. We added the rest of the bulb seal onto the rear panels, put masking tape on the bulb seals (to avoid scratching it up since I'll be taking it off at Jeff's anyway), and lifted the body high into the air. 2 guys at the back, 1 on each side, and 1 on the front. We tilted the front down first to attach the front quick jack posts, then lowered the rear as the sides were pulled outwards around the body. Quick and easy! The guys were surprised at just how well the body fitted onto the frame! The rear panels lined up perfectly with the curves of the body. The front-wheels aligned perfectly with the wheels well. The rolled edge on top of the dashboard sat high and didn't cover the whole dash, but I've read about this issue and should see it get better as I "cook" the body in the hot Californian sun. In hindsight I should have taken more pictures... but I was busy holding up the body so whoever's reading this remember to get an assistant photographer!
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Kevin brought his Milwaukee Fuel M12 right angle die-grinder and it was the SINGLE MOST USEFUL TOOL OF THE DAY. That die-grinder with a carbide router bit chewed through the fiberglass body with smooth and controlled sweeps. Enlarging the roll-bar and windshield post holes were no problem at all. Pretty much every hole needed to be enlarged on the body, so do be prepared to do that even if you got the body with cutouts from FFR.

Kevin and Thomas had to leave early so Dave, Herman, and I went to get lunch at the local Black-Bear Diner. Always loved to hear the older cobra guys talk about cars and fun stories of the past. After lunch we went back and called it a day after trimming the side-pipe holes and mounted the side-pipes. Dave can confirm that no matter how many times you take the side-pipes off they are always a massive PITA. It was a massive PITA. I dread the day where I have to replace them. Good thing the windshield slided in pain-free. I think I only have enough patience for one of the two.

(oh, and I will have to replace the side-pipes, because the passenger side side-pipe is already rattling on the inside.)

The next day I spent the whole day installing my lights. Nothing special here, just center stuff and enlarge the holes!
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Super happy with the weekend's work. It ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE A COBRA NOW!
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A funny note: That evening I wanted to put the car back on jack stands before I go to sleep. To do that I need to first drive it onto some short ramps so my jack can reach under it. I gave it a bit too much throttle and the ramps FLEW OUT from underneath the rear wheels, skidded along my driveway, and ended up equidistant from the car, LOL! I guess physics does work.
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Now that I have my temp permit, my lights, and my windshield, I have everything I need to drive it around! I plan to drive it to work this week. So excited!

[460.465USMC]

Congrats on getting the body on, Dan. I can't believe you get to drive it to work. That's awesome!

Thanks for the tips on the body fitment. I'm going to be putting the body on mine before too long, so this info. is timely.

[facultyofmusic]

Continuing from where we left off in post #388 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40301-Danny-Boy-s-Mk4-Build-Free-Body-Buck-in-NorCal!-)&p=507126&viewfull=1#post507126) I booked appointments with the local CHP office about 2 weeks after my initial DMV visit. The office I went to is the one at 2020 Junction Avenue, San Jose , CA 95131.

I drove the cobra to the CHP office and arrived super early. I took a route that avoids highways and major intersections since I'm still not fully confident in the car not breaking down :p I'm sure that gets better with time! Officer Troy Elder came out 15mins early to meet us to walk through the process. He was super knowledgeable about Factory Five kit cars and said if he was in my position, he'd rivet the serial number plate to the chassis, and then show that to him so he can use that serial number as the VIN. He said that was possible because it was known to him that FFR issued an unique serial number with each chassis. What a cool guy! I showed him the serial number that's already etched into the frame. He confirmed that it matched the serial number on my certificate of origin from FFR, took my paperwork, and a few mins later came out with a filled out VIN verification form. The whole process didn't take more than 30mins.

Since I was ahead of schedule, I drove by a brake and lamp inspection station just 5mins away to get my brakes and lights inspected. I didn't know if I needed it because the list of requirements on my DMV printout didn't mention brake or lights inspection, but I've read about it so many time I thought I might as well do it just in case. The inspection costed me $150 in total. The guy doing the inspection wasn't the friendliest fella either.

It was around 2pm when I realized that I COULD just swing by the Los Gatos DMV again to get my SB100 number. I have completed everything required for that step. Why not? To my surprise when I arrived at the DMV there was no line! What a lucky feeling. I carefully explained to the lady at the window that I have returned to the DMV after completing steps requested by them and I'd like to CONTINUE my registration process. I also made sure to tell them that I need an SB100 number. Overall the process went smoothly with the branch manager's help and I walked out of the DMV with my number written on a piece of paper. Sacramento will mail me an official document with the number, but nevertheless I have obtained it!

Oh, and they didn't bother with my brake and lamp inspection certificate. I'm not sure if they'll eventually ask for it so I won't claim it's useless yet. I hope I didn't waste $150.

Another takeaway from this is to go on a weekday around a time when everyone else is at work. I took a day off for this and I think it's super worth it.

Now all I have to do is wait for that letter from sacramento and book my smog appointment with BAR. Soon I'll have my license plate! Woohoo!

[460.465USMC]

Before that, I spent some time doing "frame alignment" where I make sure the front quick jack holes are exactly 30 inches apart and that the center of the left and right quick jacks lines up exactly with the center of the front wheels. Was pretty easy to do. I transformed a stepped drill bit into a plumb bob using a string and some tape then used it to cast 4 points onto the floor. 2 points for left and right front suspension top bolt, 2 points for left and right quick jack holes. My quick jack holes were 30 1/2in apart and biased to the driver's side by about 3/8in. Used my dead-blow hammer and whacked it until everything lined up like Jeff suggested. Didn't take long at all! Now I know my front wheels will line up with the body just right. :p


Hi Dan. These suggestions from Jeff, are they in a post? If so, would you mind sharing the link? Also, what are the most helpful body fitment threads you've found? I would like to do all of the body fitment myself, as I plan to license and drive in gel coat for a while. As I search the forum, I'm finding good nuggets, and trying to patch them together into an overall plan. I believe sequence is important (e.g. don't locate the hood scoop until the body is positioned), so looking for recommended threads to point me in the right direction. (I also PM'd Jeff K. to see if he has any recommended body fitment links at his fingertips--especially ones he wrote). Thanks in advance for any recommends you can share.

[facultyofmusic]

Hi Dan. These suggestions from Jeff, are they in a post? If so, would you mind sharing the link? Also, what are the most helpful body fitment threads you've found? I would like to do all of the body fitment myself, as I plan to license and drive in gel coat for a while. As I search the forum, I'm finding good nuggets, and trying to patch them together into an overall plan. I believe sequence is important (e.g. don't locate the hood scoop until the body is positioned), so looking for recommended threads to point me in the right direction. (I also PM'd Jeff K. to see if he has any recommended body fitment links at his fingertips--especially ones he wrote). Thanks in advance for any recommends you can share.

Here's the post I was referring to: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27790-Initial-Body-Fitting-Questions&p=317923&viewfull=1#post317923 That overall thread is probably the most helpful one I've found. Here's another one on about the same topics: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18801-Body-Alignment-questions-re-front-end My assessment of the whole situation after reading a bunch of threads was that it's really not that complex. Center the front quickjack attachment holes, the body lip at the door strikers should be about 1/4in in front of the metal, and that's really it. I didn't even bother with the hood scoop. I just brought it with me to Jeff's. :p

[facultyofmusic]

Happy New Year everyone! Among all the new year plans and work crunch I've been doing my best to get my car in shape for final assembly at Jeff's. Done quite a few things that I'm proud of. Now that I'm all cozy and warm with family on a trip to Chicago, let's catch up a bit.

Before going down to SoCal to see Jeff I made sure to squeeze in a few good days of driving. I got myself one of those cool 360 cameras on a stick to record myself driving.
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It looks down on the car from about a meter above the trunk. If you've ever played a third-person perspective racing game, that's exactly what it looks like!
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At the time I didn't have my high-back seats in yet so I wore my open-face helmet. In retrospect it was a bit overkill for a calm drive to work, but I think we all take a while to get comfortable with our machines :p Driving it to work was just a blast! People would turn their heads and smile. Kids in adjacent cars waved and passengers (even drivers at a stop light!) took pictures. I think the "obvious homemade car"-ness of the way it looked brought the inner kid out of them. It makes me happy.
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One weekend I took Olivia for a ride to a our favourite local coffee shop (Philz Coffee). About a year ago on one of our dates I rented a corvette stingray for a nice drive along the beach. She had never been in an open top car before. As we cruised down the PCH I remember telling her that "this feeling, the wind in your hair, and engine symphony, and the freedom of it all is what I'm chasing after. One day we'll drive around in a open-top car again, except it will be the car that I built myself." I never forgot that moment; and seeing her big smile (and some held back screams when I get on the gas) as the first passenger in my Mk4 made me the happiest man alive. She's been incredibly understanding and supportive of my build and I couldn't have asked for more.
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As for the seats, I eventually did put my high-back seats in. I had an issue where the shoulder section of the seats reached too far out and collided with the doors. I uncovered the seat covered, grounded down the part that was hitting the door and it fits in quite well now. I made a separate post on this topic (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44217-What-if-seats-don-t-fit-(trimmed-and-done!)) earlier but here are some pictures in summary:
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The seat covers do a great job hiding the cut-outs I made in the seat. Eventually I plan to sculpt the seats more so they are symmetrical on both sides and then have a local upholstery shop fix-up the seat covers with brown leather. With both doors on the seat-covers lightly brush the doors. I can't imagine it doing any rubbing damage to the paint since it's such a soft cloth material.

On the first week of November SJDave and I drove to SoCal in torrential rain. California isn't used to getting much rain so I must have prayed to some rain god in my sleep. SJDave did a tremendous job wrapping the car in 3 layers of covers and just about used every bungee cord he had and we took off early in the morning. Perhaps it's due to the rain that the highways were relatively clear of any traffic. Other than 2 gas-station stops we were zooming down I-5 the whole time. By the time we arrived at Jeff's shop the covers on the car were soaked but the car itself was fine. I didn't have much time or dry-fingers to take pictures, but I did get one of Dave and Jeff in Jeff's shop. Within the few hours we were there we took the body off and Jeff got straight to it. You could tell that the man had it down to a science! Not a single wasted movement. I was really cool watching Jeff do his magic.
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We called it a day late in the afternoon and got some BBQ dinner at a local restaurant near our hotel. The next day Jeff had the chassis ready to be taken back. The rain didn't get any lighter, and our covers didn't look like they were going to be enough. The electrical components behind the dash also got rained on while we were loading the car onto the bed and that got me REALLY paranoid since none of that was done with water resistance in mind. Looking back I'm actually glad that happened because the car fired right up after a few days of drying back at home. No watermarks, no shorts, all good! If this didn't happen I'd probably be paranoid about it the first time I get caught in the rain, but now I have a bit more trust in my electrical work. Haha!

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel. Happy new year! Great update. The smile on Olivia's face makes it all worth it, doesn't it? I can't wait to see the painted car.

[facultyofmusic]

Hey Daniel. Happy new year! Great update. The smile on Olivia's face makes it all worth it, doesn't it? I can't wait to see the painted car.

Haha you know it! Yeah I smile everytime I think about going to Jeff's to pick it up.

[facultyofmusic]

Remember how I spent forever deciding on the paint colour? Well I've both good and bad news on that. Although both lucky I suppose.

I found a guy at work who owned a BMW M4 Competition in that exact paint colour and asked if I could meet up with him to take a closer look. Had a fun talk with the guy and boy will I say the paint looks great... on an M4. We took the car onto the roof of our parking garage and the green turned from this deep hollow green into fantasy unicorn candy green. I just can't imagine painting my cobra in that colour. Again, it looks amazing on the M4, but imaging my cobra in that colour makes me... idk man I just can't do it. I cobra I want to build is a classic roadster on the exterior.

So back on the search I went. Dealership to dealership I asked to see their green cars and I ended up settling on the Mercedes Emerald Green Metallic. Some of the other colours on my shortlist were the Mini British Racing Green and Porsche Jet Green Metallic. Mini's BRG was a little too GREEN for me. Porsche's JGM was a bit too muted. The Mercedes EGM felt just right. That's the paint I asked Jeff to put on my cobra and I cannot wait to see it.

Now onto the glovebox. I'll admit I didn't really do much planning for the glove-box compartment. In the beginning I wasn't even planning to have a functioning glovebox... perhaps a door there but have it open to some wires or fuse panel for maintenance purposes. I finished all the vehicle electrical work without needing that area at all, so now I have a bunch of space to fill. I'm not planning to add a heater to the car, so glovebox it is.

The popular glovebox approach seems to be making a tub and then glue that tub to the dashboard. Since I have the entire underside of the dashboard supported by aluminum panel I decided to wall off a section behind the dashboard and use that as glovebox space instead. I transferred the cardboard mockup to an aluminum panel and used 2 1/8 screws and nuts to attach it to a hinge.

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I countersunk the screw-head side of the panel and after tightening the nut down with a dab of red loctite I ground down the screw head some more to make it flatter. I'm going to cover it with foam-backed upholstery fabric anyway. To cover the edges of the folded upholstery fabric I used sheets of plastic to sandwich the edges. It effectively forms a groove for the upholstery edges to fit into; invisible after it's covered up. It's finished off with black rustoleum spray-paint. I made sure to cover up the fabric parts so it doesn't get paint on it.
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You can still tell where the screw heads are on the fully covered side if you really try in the right lighting. I don't think anyone's gonna notice ;)
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[facultyofmusic]

Next is the hinge. I thought it would be easy to find the hinge I'm looking for, but after scouring the internet I just couldn't find it. Maybe I didn't try hard enough? Anyway I decided to make my own. I took a left-over piece of aluminum and bent it into shape with my press-brakes. Some bending here some hammer there... eventually I got it down to the shape I wanted.
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This is the part of the hinge that reaches above the pivot point, through the opening to grab onto the lid. To make it swivel I cut up a piece of piano hinge and riveted it together. After spray painting the curvy part black of course. :p
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The hinge attaches to the dashboard using rivets through the dashboard. RIVETS THROUGH THE DASHBOARD!?!? Yes. By the time I had to make that decision I had already decided to re-cover my dashboard with brown leather material. Brown is pairs better with green, don'cha think? The idea is the cut X shapes where I'll rivet the hinge, peel back the black FFR provided dashboard material, rivet, and let the black dash material cover it up again. It only looks ugly but there will be no visible bumps in the material after I cover it with another layer of material.
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Looking back at the work I did I'm really impressed with how well the hinge worked. Haha.

[facultyofmusic]

At this moment I fully reflect John Ibele's sentiment that every virus known to man seems to be flying around everywhere you go. Unfortunately I caught one of the bigger ones and the past few days have been a living hell. Looks like my body's beating COVID pretty good now, so let's keep talking cars. I wish everyone else here good health and a strong immune system.

I started having this "new dash" idea very early on in my build when I saw JohnK's gorgeous dashboard. I really loved his comp-dash layout and dash material. The FFR provided material looked pretty good from 5 feet away but up close it looked like a sheet of plastic. Fast forward to the day I put the body onto the chassis I found myself not hating the street-dash layout that much. After driving it around in go-kart mode I did appreciate that the speedo was right in-front of me so I decided to keep it. However with the body on the rolled edge that sits above the dash was about 1/2" above the top of my actual dashboard. Wisdom from the forum said to let the body "cook" under the sun for a while and maybe it will fit on but after a few weeks it didn't fix it by much. Here's what it looked like when I had the body fitted at Jeff's shop, you can see the dash mounting tabs through the gap. Not a pretty sight.
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It was also at that point when I thought about matching the interior of the car with the exterior paint. Like I mentioned in previous posts, brown and green look so good together! Something like this:
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I had both the aesthetic and technical reasons to change my dash so I wasn't gonna pass up on this opportunity. I looked around and ordered a rich soft PU-leather upholstery material. Because there's already the FFR material on the dash I didn't have to buy the foam-lined material as I can just put it on top of what's already there. The lessons I learned from doing the dash for the first time were also carried over. I made sure to not cut the holes too big (cuz they curve into the dash) and use a sharper and finer crafting knife to do the work.
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I also attached a L-beam to the back of the dash to make it wobble less. The normal switches are not a problem but the push and pull motion of the light switch makes it look flimsy during operation. With the L-beam bracing the dash it's much more solid now.
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The trimmed boundaries of where the glovebox meets the dash to give it a recessed area. With the new material covering the top it looks well integrated.
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I borrowed SJDave's label maker and pressed out embossed labels for the switches. I know some of y'all are in the "less things on my dash" camp. I learned that I'm the opposite. I think they look neat. I had 2 switches left over from the FFR kit so I decided to add a bit of fun (and dare I say personality) to my cobra. To the right of the gauges I installed the switches without connecting them to anything and labeled them "airbags" and "trac. control". One day a passenger's gonna ask about them and I'll tell them "oh yeah sorry the airbags were an extra option so I didn't get it with the car". When Olivia plays around with the traction control button I'll tell her "Aww don't go around turning me on and off like that". :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The results were much better than I expected. Honestly things turning out better than I expected seems to be a common trend. Maybe I just have low expectations?
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[egchewy79]

I've seen engraved bezel rings for the switches if you wanted a cleaner look w/o the label maker stickers

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1287429082/classic-car-toggle-switch-label-tags-any?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_-other-electronics_and_accessories&utm_custom1=_k_Cj0KCQiAt66eBhCnARIsAKf3ZNF0WRB3uBz NybyxfCw_T0_MnjwIWwSyfvQAOF36rCB4rQiHs8ULvokaAjLtE ALw_wcB_k_&utm_content=go_208914155_16902162995_69016908395_a ud-459688891635:pla-336041413802_c__1287429082_12768591&utm_custom2=208914155&gclid=Cj0KCQiAt66eBhCnARIsAKf3ZNF0WRB3uBzNybyxfCw_ T0_MnjwIWwSyfvQAOF36rCB4rQiHs8ULvokaAjLtEALw_wcB

[Jeff Kleiner]

"Airbags"? :confused:

Jeff

[John Ibele]

At this moment I fully reflect John Ibele's sentiment that every virus known to man seems to be flying around everywhere you go.

Just want you to know I caught that. (See what I did there? :rolleyes:)

We can just tell everyone we have really healthy immune systems for a while now.

You are a courageous man, Daniel! I think I'd cry if I had to tear all the wiring out from behind my dash. But you're going to have something that looks right now, and I agree, green is the only color that would prompt me to do a brown dash. That's going to look really nice. Congrats on all your progress, and on getting the car out and about.

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel. So sorry to hear you've been sick. Lots of bugs are definitely going around at the moment. Get well soon.

Nice work on the dash. The brown interior will look really sharp against the green paint.

[facultyofmusic]

Just want you to know I caught that. (See what I did there? :rolleyes:)

We can just tell everyone we have really healthy immune systems for a while now.

You are a courageous man, Daniel! I think I'd cry if I had to tear all the wiring out from behind my dash. But you're going to have something that looks right now, and I agree, green is the only color that would prompt me to do a brown dash. That's going to look really nice. Congrats on all your progress, and on getting the car out and about.

Thanks John and yes, I tell people that I got an OTA immune system update haha! Glad to see you're pulling through and recovering!

[facultyofmusic]

I've seen engraved bezel rings for the switches if you wanted a cleaner look w/o the label maker stickers

Those were definite my first choice when I initially mocked it up in my head, in fact you can see black bezels around the switches that I added. They are thin washers painted black. I ended up really loving the label look because it reminds me of fighter jet cockpits. ... so I decided to keep it.
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If one day I start seeing it more "filing cabinet" than "fighter pilot" I'll switch it up to engraved bezel rings :p

[facultyofmusic]

"Airbags"? :confused:

Jeff

and when they ask "wait, cobras had airbags?" I'll tell them it's just a fun joke and hope they're strapped in real tight. :p

[facultyofmusic]

Hey Daniel. So sorry to hear you've been sick. Lots of bugs are definitely going around at the moment. Get well soon.

Nice work on the dash. The brown interior will look really sharp against the green paint.

Definitely have you to thank for being a source of inspiration! Thank you and hope everyone's healthy on your side.

[facultyofmusic]

It's time to say goodbye to the bare aluminum interior. Time for carpet!

My research into carpet gave me the following impressions:
1. FFR carpet is cheap and flimsy
2. Bound the edge of the carpet for a cool look.

To test this out I test fitted all the carpet pieces by sticking them onto the chassis with duct tape. I get what y'all mean by the carpet being really easy to rip and all but it wasn't as bad as I expected. If anything it made it really easy to cut when needed haha. Every piece of carpet was slightly oversized for me as expected, but they all bound quite well to the shape they're supposed to be. As for binding the edges I think the carpet does a good enough job hiding the seams. There will be places where carpet edges are exposed on outward corners and I'll put bindings there, but for inward corners I'll leave them as is.

I followed Jeff Kleiner's advice and sprayed all the corners where carpet will meet with black spray paint.
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For adhesive I tried 3M Super77 but it grabs way too fast. Many suggested to get something that lets the carpet wiggle and move around before curing. Silicone did that, but silicone does "grab" at all; especially when you work on vertical pieces. I ended up using the loctite powergrab construction adhesive instead. It grabs immediately but with enough force it lets the carpet slowly slide in the direction I need it to go. I also used a trick I learned from another build thread (sorry I forgot which one) where a beam was used to press in and hold the tight corners with small pieces.

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I bought a separate roll of black carpet to pad out the glove compartment.
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There's still some carpeting left to do, but I can't do those until I get the body on.

[460.465USMC]

Congrats on the dash and carpet, Daniel. Both items put your build a big step forward in terms of finish. Great progress.

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks Chris! Hey I think I got the carpet trick from you!

[facultyofmusic]

Some misc updates. There aren't many TODO items on the "before body install" list now.

Here are some close up pictures of the glovebox and dash. I put the inertia switch inside to the right.
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I added some trunk lights to help me see in the dark (item from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084LDCWKZ (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084LDCWKZ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1)):
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Last but not least I got some ARP bolts and tall brass nuts for my exhaust. The smaller 12-point head offers many more options during install/uninstall and the tall brass nuts are much easier to grab. This setup has more thread contact as well.
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At this point I'm looking through the build manuals and other build threads trying to see if there's anything else I can do. If anyone sees anything please let me know!

[facultyofmusic]

Spoke with Jeff over the phone to confirm that my latest estimate for body pick-up is late Feb. Just a few weeks away! I'm also both sad and honoured that I'm one of Jeff's last 5 cobras as he will not be taking anymore work. To think that I'd be lucky enough to become a part of the MillerCustoms legacy is an honour. I'm sure I'll be telling stories about Jeff and his cobras decades from now.

Last week I hit the 200 mile mark on my odometer. Can't keep me out of this thing! While I still had my January temp permit I made sure to clock in a few good hours of driving so I can inspect the car to catch anything before the body goes back on. I put the car on jacks and inspected the entire vehicle from drivetrain to suspension to electrical connections. Only 2 things stood out. The jam nuts of my IRS UCA were a little loose on both driver and passenger sides. Luckily multiple jam nuts were in that assembly so nothing really moved. That jam nut is one of the few nuts I expected to come loose as I've yet to align the car. I plan to put loctite on it after I align the car at a good alignment shop. The lower radiator hose had a few drops of coolant leaking out. When I saw that I realized that I never further tightened the clamps after initial install. The heat-cycling probably moved a few things and sure enough the clamps were easily hand-tightened. Other than that all's good!

I had a few ideas for things to do before the body goes on but I shot most of them down. The first one was front-mounted pusher fans. I do love the look, but in the end I decided that I'd be adding it just for looks alone and that a clean radiator look isn't too bad either.
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JohnK's recent post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(MagCode-PowerPort-for-battery-charger)&p=514298&viewfull=1#post514298)showcased a remote-battery-terminal for easy charging which I thought was really smart. Right now there's a ton of room for me to reach down into the battery holder but when the body goes on that will get much harder. I wouldn't want to lean in and risk scratching the paint or something like that. Then I realized that I had my panel-mounted alternator fuse on my driver side firewall that was easily accessible and it had a big fat direct connection to the battery. I could just use one of the posts on the fuse instead.
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I've been reading up on radiator protection too. Some recommend the nomex honeycomb protecting while others recommend a screen at the nose opening instead. I can't seem to decide which one I prefer so I'll leave that for later. This isn't something I absolutely have to do before going back to Jeff.

There are two issues I do actually want to solve though. The first one is windshield rattles. Mike Forte's brackets allow quick and easy detachment of the windshield, but I do find the windshield posts rattling in the bracket when I go over a harsh bump. It sounds like the whole thing's gonna fall apart. I've checked with both JohnK and SJDave and the verdict seems to be that once I drill and install the release pin and have the windshield trim rest on the car body the rattles will be much less noticeable. On this matter I've decided to wait it out and see. If the rattles DO still bother me then I can tap and secure the windshield posts with half inch bolts, the same way FFR manual shows. Mike forte's brackets will still serve to hold the windshield in place while I secure it in place. It's function will not be annulled.

Last thing is foam on the side of the car. JohnK's build thread shows these large form blocks that were cut to shape for the body (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(MagCode-PowerPort-for-battery-charger)&p=512645&viewfull=1#post512645) and I really like that idea. I'll be doing the same. I'm really happy to have a builder like John right in front of me in terms of build progress. Haha!

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel. Can't wait to see your car when it's back from Jeff. I'm sure it'll be spectacular.

I bought one of the nomex honeycomb radiator screens but ended up going a different route on radiator protection. If you want it, it's yours.

[facultyofmusic]

Got a text from Jeff this morning that pretty much killed all my productivity for the day:
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The plan is the pick it up this Saturday. Tow the chassis down on a flatbed and tow the whole shebang back the same way. Can't wrap the paint or anything because it's still fresh, but Jeff did make a good point that the car's gonna get rock chips one way or another, so that's ok.

Time to dig through my boxes to make sure I have all the exterior components. I haven't assembled the door latches yet, so I'll need to do that too. I remember seeing a post from somewhere about modding the door latches to make it smoother. I'll have to find that one again.

[JohnK]

Wow! That looks spectacular. Can't wait to see it in person Daniel.

[Fman]

Very nice! :cool: Just make sure your tow vehicle has good mud flaps to help avoid any rocks flying on the tow home.

[hineas]

The door latch modification is important and I recommend doing it now when you put it all together. I decided to wait until my latch broke to do the modification. I made it about 2 months of driving before my latch broke. It was bad enough that I had to climb over the door to get in and out of the car. It sounds like you are smarter than me and are planning on doing it now!

The issue with the latch is the pivot mechanism is held together with a press fit. This loosens with use pretty quickly. Once the pivot joint comes apart, the lever doesn't pull open the latch pin. This is a picture of my latch that came apart. Sadly, my picture didn't include the inner piece that presses into the lever at the square hole.

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The fix is easy. You just need to buy a short carriage bolt that will fit into the square hole at the pivot point. Then you hold it together with a nut and washer on the other side. The reason for the carriage bolt is because the head of the bolt isn't tall so it will fit back into the door. I just took the lever with me to the hardware store and picked one that fit well and was short enough that the bolt didn't stick above the nut. I used a nut with the nylon locking part so it wouldn't come apart in the future.

Inside the latch there is a wave spring washer. I didn't re-use this wash and just discarded it.

One issue is that the inner part of the pivot joint sticks above the lever. If you hold the joint together with the carriage bolt, washer, and nut, the lever will flop around because the nut and washer aren't holding the lever tight. Most people grind the inner part of the pivot joint so the washer can sit flush against the lever. I was lazy, so I ended up just using a thick rubber washer. I cut a square hole out of the washer and used that to fill the gap to hold the lever tight. The end result was the same. Here are some pictures of the pivot joint held together with the carriage bolt, washer, and nut.

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On one door I ended up using the spacer between the door latch mechanism and the door. This gave enough space for the carriage bolt to fit. However, on the other door I didn't use the spacer. The carriage bolt was too thick so I ground down the head of the carriage bolt to fit. I also had to make the hole in the fiberglass a little larger to give space for the carriage bolt. The enlarged hole is completely under the latch so it isn't visible when fully installed.

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This holds the latch together well and I have not had an issue since fixing it almost a year ago.

I did one other modification while I had the latch taken apart. There is a pin that sticks up from the frame of the latch mechanism. This pin stops the lever when it is fully open. However, I found this was not in the correct spot and prevented the pin from fully retracting. This also caused the door to bind occasionally. I just filed the edge of the pin to allow the lever to open more and fully retract the pin.

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Once I had it together I greased the inner mechanism with white lithium grease which also helped the latch work more smoothly.

Another modification I had to do on the door was to chamfer the hole for the latch pin on the striker post. This helped prevent the door from binding on the driver's door. This isn't as important, but did help some.

Another modification people do on the latch is to drill a hole through the top of the lever into the ball. Next they tap the hole and put a machine screw into it to hold the ball on. This ball has a tendency to break off. I haven't done that yet, but I will do it when it breaks.

I hope this helps!

[facultyofmusic]

Thank you for the great write up! After reading your advice I immediately dug out my door latches so I can do an initial assembly to better understand it. To my surprise I have something that looks completely different! Further research shows that it's one of those new Mk4 door latches that use an entirely different mechanism:

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For some reason I also have a bag of what looks like the spacers for old style door latches:

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AFAIK, the updated Mk4 door latches don't use those spacers. They were probably sent to me by mistake. Searching through the forum I couldn't really find any "must do" mods for the new door latches. I assume that either means the new latches are great, or that not many people have used them in their builds yet. I hope it's the former.

The door latch kit also comes with a striker relocation kit in case the on-frame location doesn't reach far enough. I only got one of these. I assume I should have gotten 2 since there are 2 doors on the car? I don't think I'll get one in time to go to Jeff's on Saturday. I hope I won't need these, and if I do, only need one.

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[hineas]

That is awesome because the older latches like I have had some serious issues.

I am intrigued to see how those perform!!!

To my untrained eye, that appears to be much more like a standard car door latch mechanism which is good. I don't love the one on our Mk4. The way it is constructed also looks to be much more solid and robust.

[JeffP]

Got a text from Jeff this morning that pretty much killed all my productivity for the day:
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The plan is the pick it up this Saturday. Tow the chassis down on a flatbed and tow the whole shebang back the same way. Can't wrap the paint or anything because it's still fresh, but Jeff did make a good point that the car's gonna get rock chips one way or another, so that's ok.

Time to dig through my boxes to make sure I have all the exterior components. I haven't assembled the door latches yet, so I'll need to do that too. I remember seeing a post from somewhere about modding the door latches to make it smoother. I'll have to find that one again.

Is that indigo ink? I'm hoping to pick mine up by the end of the week and the color is very close, congrats!!!

I picked up an extra one of these: https://a.co/d/7591hF3 for my battery tender that I already have and ran it off the cutoff terminal on the firewall and into the cockpit. Just tucked it under the dash for whenever i want to hook it up to the tender.

[Mike.Bray]

Thank you for the great write up! After reading your advice I immediately dug out my door latches so I can do an initial assembly to better understand it. To my surprise I have something that looks completely different! Further research shows that it's one of those new Mk4 door latches that use an entirely different mechanism:

179940

For some reason I also have a bag of what looks like the spacers for old style door latches:

179941

AFAIK, the updated Mk4 door latches don't use those spacers. They were probably sent to me by mistake. Searching through the forum I couldn't really find any "must do" mods for the new door latches. I assume that either means the new latches are great, or that not many people have used them in their builds yet. I hope it's the former.

The door latch kit also comes with a striker relocation kit in case the on-frame location doesn't reach far enough. I only got one of these. I assume I should have gotten 2 since there are 2 doors on the car? I don't think I'll get one in time to go to Jeff's on Saturday. I hope I won't need these, and if I do, only need one.

179942

I also received the bag of parts for the old style latches but my new style latches are still POL. If you have to relocate the pins check out Ted G's build thread, he came up with a really slick way of doing it.

[CABulldog]

The door latch kit also comes with a striker relocation kit in case the on-frame location doesn't reach far enough. I only got one of these. I assume I should have gotten 2 since there are 2 doors on the car? I don't think I'll get one in time to go to Jeff's on Saturday. I hope I won't need these, and if I do, only need one.

179942

Hi Dan

I have a very similar issue but I am well behind you on my build. Another forum member (and he keeps up to date) made some new latch plates that can screw on (Ted's post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45224-New-Door-Latches-Old-Style-Door-Tabs)) from that as my car is basically a sister to his car (only about 10 frame numbers off) it inspired me to fabricate my own option based on the on frame one. You can see that progress in my build thread (Bulldogs door plate fab post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42677-CABulldogs-mk4-10323&p=517293&viewfull=1#post517293)), I hope to be able to cut the metal versions this week (Wednesday evening or Thursday evening), I maybe have enough left over material I could make a set for you and get them to you before you leave for Jeff's on Saturday. Mine is a weld on set but it could be modified in a bolt on way if you need.

Sad to hear that Jeff is not taking new customers, I was thinking of taking my car down to him as well, but that sounds like it is not an option.

James

[egchewy79]

Got a text from Jeff this morning that pretty much killed all my productivity for the day:
179919 179920

The plan is the pick it up this Saturday. Tow the chassis down on a flatbed and tow the whole shebang back the same way. Can't wrap the paint or anything because it's still fresh, but Jeff did make a good point that the car's gonna get rock chips one way or another, so that's ok.

Time to dig through my boxes to make sure I have all the exterior components. I haven't assembled the door latches yet, so I'll need to do that too. I remember seeing a post from somewhere about modding the door latches to make it smoother. I'll have to find that one again.

great color. I'm planning on a similar color palate.
how long did Da Bat have your car? seems like he flew through the body work/paint.
too bad to hear that Jeff is hanging it up. Maybe he'll pull a Tom Brady and decide to come back for another season :)

[facultyofmusic]

Is that indigo ink? I'm hoping to pick mine up by the end of the week and the color is very close, congrats!!!

I picked up an extra one of these: https://a.co/d/7591hF3 for my battery tender that I already have and ran it off the cutoff terminal on the firewall and into the cockpit. Just tucked it under the dash for whenever i want to hook it up to the tender.

It’s Mercedes Emerald Green Metallic. I think it looks a little blue in the pictures because it’s partially reflecting the blue california sky in the pictures. As for the battery tender I do plan to have a quick disconnect for it. It’s a great idea since these cars won’t be driven that much and the battery isn’t very big. Thank you for the suggestion, I’ll put that on my list of options. :)


Hi Dan

I have a very similar issue but I am well behind you on my build. Another forum member (and he keeps up to date) made some new latch plates that can screw on (Ted's post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45224-New-Door-Latches-Old-Style-Door-Tabs)) from that as my car is basically a sister to his car (only about 10 frame numbers off) it inspired me to fabricate my own option based on the on frame one. You can see that progress in my build thread (Bulldogs door plate fab post (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?42677-CABulldogs-mk4-10323&p=517293&viewfull=1#post517293)), I hope to be able to cut the metal versions this week (Wednesday evening or Thursday evening), I maybe have enough left over material I could make a set for you and get them to you before you leave for Jeff's on Saturday. Mine is a weld on set but it could be modified in a bolt on way if you need.

Sad to hear that Jeff is not taking new customers, I was thinking of taking my car down to him as well, but that sounds like it is not an option.

James

Wow! Thank you for the incredibly generous offer! I told Jeff about the new door latches and he said we’ll learn as we go, so I don’t know what we’ll need. If it’s possible I’d really appreciate a set to take to Jeff. I’ll PM you. Thank you again for your generosity!


great color. I'm planning on a similar color palate.
how long did Da Bat have your car? seems like he flew through the body work/paint.
too bad to hear that Jeff is hanging it up. Maybe he'll pull a Tom Brady and decide to come back for another season :)

I dropped off the car at Jeff’s during the first week of November 2022. It’s been a bit more than 3 months since then. The torrential rain in California 2 weeks ago definitely slowed things down so I’d take that into account too. Last time I saw Jeff I could tell he’s definitely seen better days with his back. To be honest I left Jeff surprised that he still had the drive to do a few more now that his shop helper Jose isn’t there anymore. As much as I love to see more of Jeff’s work I also completely understand why he wants to call it.

[facultyofmusic]

Today I sealed up the driver-side footbox, the last piece of core chassis-aluminum to install. I spent a while looking through all the connections to ensure I didn't leave anything unfinished. I made sure that the fuse-box unbolts and moves out of the way enough to secure the windshield posts too. With the seats in place it's really hard to reach far into the footbox but with the seats removed it's not actually that hard.

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I won't be putting the seats back on until I get back from Jeff's. The seats will just get in the way of body mounting and I won't need to drive it anyway.
180031

Now that I'll have the body back by this weekend I called BAR today and scheduled my smog appointment for next Friday at the Livermore smog station. If time will allow it I'm gonna drive straight to the DMV after smog to pick up my license plates. I'm INCREDIBLY EXCITED.

[facultyofmusic]

Quick update! Got the chassis loaded onto the trailer and exterior hardware in the trunk. Ready to go!
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We're not expecting any rain this time so the chassis will be uncovered on our way down. We should arrive at Jeff's in the late afternoon to drop off the chassis at the shop.

In the evening I visited James (CABulldog)'s place who lives down the peninsula. He made a set of door-striker extender plates for me just on time for me to go to Jeff's. I love this community.
180095

Thank you James!

[JohnK]

Safe travels! Can't wait to see the body on the chassis.

[CABulldog]

In the evening I visited James (CABulldog)'s place who lives down the peninsula. He made a set of door-striker extender plates for me just on time for me to go to Jeff's. I love this community.
180095

Thank you James!

Your welcome it was nice to meet you and talk cars for a bit, this community is awesome. Safe travels, can wait to see pics of the body.

[facultyofmusic]

No rain this time! We towed the chassis down to Temecula without any coverings on it; a whole day's trip. We stopped by Willow Ranch just off of Highway 58 and I-5 for lunch. The food was delicious! Checked into our inn to prepare for an early Saturday morning at Jeff's but I couldn't sleep one bit! My mind was simply too excited to see the body in person.

Showed up at Jeff's at 7am to see the shop already open. The body was in the side shop waiting to be put on. Without direct light the body looks black, but walk around up close and you'll find the deep green revealing itself. It's magical.
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The paint wasn't the only exciting news though. I'm happy to report to everyone here that Jose's back at the shop! I was super happy to see him recovering well with cancer treatment. Jeff looked noticable more energetic too! The two got to work right away and the body was on in no time. I tried to help out but Jeff insisted that there wasn't much room for that. If you watch them do their thing you'll think the same. The whole process is down to a science and as efficient as it could be.
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We spent a lot of time on the new Mk4 door latches. It was Jeff's first time working with those and James' door striker extension plates were used on both sides. Would have taken much longer if it wasn't for those plates. We got the doors to close and latch correctly then called it at day. The strikers still needed work, but that's something I could do at home and we had to hit to road if we want to be home before midnight.
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We towed the car back on the same flatbed. We didn't have an enclosed trailer, but Jeff specifically cautioned against covering or wrapping the car since the paint was still relatively fresh. He said the car will get rock chips as I drive it around anyway so I might as well get the first one over with... I agreed to that. In the end we only had one tiny chip on the side of the rear fender!

[facultyofmusic]

The rest of the long weekend was spent on installing the windshield, seats, and lights. Dave helped me gap, mark, and drill the windshield posts on his lathe. The lights went on without an issue but BOY was it a abdominal workout getting those tightened up! Ok enough talking. I know what you're all here for :rolleyes:

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(the license plate is from my old car. I just put installed it so it doesn't look empty. I took it off after I took the pictures.)

I swear I spent at least an hour just walking around the car in circles, taking pictures from every angle. There are still lots to do! Elephant ears, wheel well liners, foam inserts, side louvers, registration... but I decided to leave that for a later day. Right now I just want to look at it. Haha.

[JohnK]

Wow, looks awesome! You must be thrilled to have it painted and back home. I can't wait to see it in person.

[mladen]

Nice! And cool idea for extinguisher placement

[CABulldog]

I am glad my plates helped, the paint work looks amazing da bat's work is amazing. I can't wait to see it in person

[460.465USMC]

Congrats, Daniel! I really like your color choice. So great to see it all coming together. Thanks for posting the pictures.

[Fman]

Beauty! Congrats, have fun and that is one heck of an extinguisher you are using!

[Bob Brandle]

Congratulations Daniel. Your Roadster looks Great!! Deep green and a saddle brown usually look wonderful together and yours certainly does.

I saw your post a week or so ago, but then couldn't relocate it to post a message to you. Now I can.

When you mentioned that you dropped off your roadster to Jeff "Da Bat" Miller Customs the middle of December, I thought to myself that you might have seen my Type 65/Daytona Coupe there. It was probably the only Daytona in the shop at that time, had some significant custom body modifications and was just past the body prep stage and into the primer stage of completion. I subsequently picked it up fully painted on January 18 and headed back to Scottsdale, AZ. Like yours, the fit, finish and paint quality was superb, really gorgeous. Kudos to Jeff and Jose.

Like you, I feel grateful and a bit special to likely be one of the last customers of Miller Customs, maybe even with the last Daytona Coupe by Da Bat.

FYI, I use to live in Fremont, having worked in Silicon Valley electronic & networking equipment hi-tech for over 30 years, but have retired in Scottsdale, AZ in 2018.
I'll soon post photos of my car as it gets a close to full completion or at least with the exterior completed (lights and all the glass in place).


Bob "Bob's Arizona Gen 3 Coupe" / D8YTONA Coupe ("D8ytona_Coupe" on Instagram)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180468&d=1677129692

[John Ibele]

Congrats, Daniel! That color looks fantastic, and really sets off your brown dash nicely - its a great combination.

[facultyofmusic]

Congratulations Daniel. Your Roadster looks Great!! Deep green and a saddle brown usually look wonderful together and yours certainly does.

I saw your post a week or so ago, but then couldn't relocate it to post a message to you. Now I can.

When you mentioned that you dropped off your roadster to Jeff "Da Bat" Miller Customs the middle of December, I thought to myself that you might have seen my Type 65/Daytona Coupe there. It was probably the only Daytona in the shop at that time, had some significant custom body modifications and was just past the body prep stage and into the primer stage of completion. I subsequently picked it up fully painted on January 18 and headed back to Scottsdale, AZ. Like yours, the fit, finish and paint quality was superb, really gorgeous. Kudos to Jeff and Jose.

Like you, I feel grateful and a bit special to likely be one of the last customers of Miller Customs, maybe even with the last Daytona Coupe by Da Bat.

FYI, I use to live in Fremont, having worked in Silicon Valley electronic & networking equipment hi-tech for over 30 years, but have retired in Scottsdale, AZ in 2018.
I'll soon post photos of my car as it gets a close to full completion or at least with the exterior completed (lights and all the glass in place).


Bob "Bob's Arizona Gen 3 Coupe" / D8YTONA Coupe ("D8ytona_Coupe" on Instagram)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180468&d=1677129692

Hey Bob! Yes! I do remember seeing a daytona coupe there. In fact I remember pointing at it with Dave next to me and saying "wow look at that! A daytona body!" I always loved the look of the daytona, especially the tilt-nose front. Picking between the coupe vs the roadster was a hard decision, so hard I'm sure one day I'll end up building a coupe too!

Hope to see pictures on your build thread soon Bob. :D

[facultyofmusic]

Wow, looks awesome! You must be thrilled to have it painted and back home. I can't wait to see it in person.

I am glad my plates helped, the paint work looks amazing da bat's work is amazing. I can't wait to see it in person

Congrats, Daniel! That color looks fantastic, and really sets off your brown dash nicely - its a great combination.

Congrats, Daniel! I really like your color choice. So great to see it all coming together. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Thanks everyone! Can't wait to meet and cruise together with you guys. I hope we'll all get to see each other's cars in person one day!


Beauty! Congrats, have fun and that is one heck of an extinguisher you are using!

Nice! And cool idea for extinguisher placement

Haha that's what I thought too! That thread on fire extinguishers from a few weeks ago (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45176-fire-extinguisher-ideas)made me rethink the mounting location. Initially I mounted it on the roll-bar because I was in the middle of deciding where to put it but after a while it grew on me. It's easy to access and looks pretty badass too! :p I used a large thick piece of 3M double-sided tape on the bar to prevent the holder from sliding down. It doesn't even go down if I push it!

[facultyofmusic]

Olivia tells me all the time that I like to over-romanticise things. She’s not wrong.

Over the past few days I’ve felt the same kind of emptiness I felt last year after the car’s first start. I’ve been waiting for this moment for so long that I, once again, didn’t give much thought to what I’ll do next. If I were to summarise last year’s feeling it would be “wow, it’s a real car!” This time it feels more like “wow, it’s pretty much… done…?”

Of course I knew that’s not true. The boxes I received from FFR aren’t all empty yet so there’s still much to do. There’s wheel well work, side louvres, door latches, engine tuning, you name it! All this work could easily stretch into the next few months.

On the other hand the car now looks like a cobra, accelerates like a bat out of hell, sounds like a coyote, and handles like a dream. What more does one need? I find myself asking silly questions like “ok do we REALLY need side louvres? Let’s just go drive the damn thing!” Dave told me stories of people who got to the driving stage and ended up never really “finishing” their car since it was just so much more fun to drive! At the time I thought that was foolish. How can you leave a car unfinished? Well well well… I’m starting to feel it too.

One way get over momentary laziness is to sit down and plan out the work ahead, so let’s do just that. Here's the tail-end of things.

Registration. I was supposed to go to the Livermore SMOG station to get my smog sticker which completes the SB100 process. I had to cancel the appointment due to an absolutely wild week of wind, rain, and snow in the bay area. On the bright side the snow covered Santa-Cruz mountains are a sight to behold!
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Side Louvres. I plan to attach mine the same way Paul (edwardb) attached his using 10-32 perforated base studs (mcmaster-carr 97590A569) (https://www.mcmaster.com/perforated-base-studs/) and 3M HSRF. I don’t think I’ll attach the Louvre to L brackets with screws because I don’t love the look. I’ll attach them with a generous amount of silicone. The side louvres don’t take any load at all so silicone should hold it just fine.

Elephant ears (wheel well splash panels). When installing front and rear lights I had to take the wheels off which made it a good time to test fit the elephant ears. None of them fit. In fact I couldn’t even get it to sit in the wheel well at all. Much trimming is required on the panels and I’ll need a good day’s worth of work to get that done. I’ve also purchased wheel well liners from Shane at VRaptor Speedworks. These are Shane’s continuations of Alex’s wheel-well liners. They provide all-round stone protection for the underside of the fibre-glass body and also prevents water from being splashed all over electrical connections at the back of front and rear lights. You can find more info on the look and fit here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32188-Alex-s-wheel-well-liner

Before I do either of the two above I’ll need to fill the gap between the outer-footwell panels and the fibreglass body. Per Jeff’s instructions I did not glue those on before body install, so I’ll stuff them in afterwards. Jeff said to just use a stick to poke it in and it will stay put forever. Sounds good to me.

Radiator Aluminium. Like JohnK I’ve purchased Mike Everson’s radiator aluminium piece from ReplicaParts (http://replicaparts.com/Roadster%20aluminum%20panel%20page.htm). Instead of going straight down from the side, Mike’s radiator aluminium piece curves around the bottom and forms a smooth surface that looks much better IMO. Here’s a link to JohnK’s thread that showcases in his build: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(fun-with-headers!)&p=517624&viewfull=1#post517624

Door latches. This is a big one. There are 2 issues I have with the way my current door latches are.

First, the door-strikers are mounted on bare-steel extension plates. No one's fault here, just unfortunate circumstances that arose from FFR switching over to these new Mk4 door latches. Due to the way they’re designed the strikers have to reach far deeper into the cabin. The striker rods are also much longer and easier to bump into (and when you do it hurts!)
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The second issue is a much more practical one. The older door-latches unlatch when you pull the lever forwards while these new door-latches unlatch when you push the stub backwards. They JUST HAPPEN to sit right next to my left elbow in driving position and I keep accidentally opening my door with my elbow! I’d be in the middle of a turn when my elbow bumps the lever backwards which swings the whole door open. Yikes! I’ve yet to figure out what to do about this.
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At this moment I really wish FFR gave me the old style door latches. With just a little tweaking they work well and have none of these problems. Worst part is that in order to install these new door latches we had to cut away the mounting tabs fitted for old-style latches. I can’t easily go back to the old style latches either.

Engine Tuning. With about 210 miles on the odometer the engine’s been running great with a few exceptions. It burns noticeably rich and its idle RPM is too high. A stock gen3 coyote idles at around 700 rpm whereas my engine idles at a whopping 1150! When in gear it’s fine, but sitting at the red light with a 1150 rpm burble is just too much for me.

This forum’s go-to solution for tuning a coyote seems to be Lund Tuning. I’ve read a few threads about them and they seem to do great work. My other car friends on the other hand all recommend taking it to a local tuning shop and I’m biassed towards this option as well. My intuition tells me it’s better to get the car onto a real dyno with the tuner physically present than receiving maps by email and trying it out. Lund’s tuning process also requires me to do a few WOT pulls and I honestly have no idea where I can do that safely.

I’d love more feedback on my thoughts here. Am I right to assume that a reputable local physically-present tuner is better than remote-tuning? Am I missing anything obvious here that I should know about?

[Blitzboy54]

I felt the same way. Honestly once you break her in and work out all the bugs driving it is while orders of magnitude more fun than building it. Looks fantastic, love that you had a vision of what you wanted and made it happen.

Enjoy it

[Rsnake]

Your car is looking amazing! Great Job.
I think it's time for another Alice's meetup in March. 2nd Saturday
I will post information. Looking forward to seeing it.

[facultyofmusic]

Before I go further I want to clarify that Jon Lund Sr. was straightforward, professional, and very quick to respond to my custom request (on a weekend too!). I'm surprised and disappointed by the situation I'm in, not the way I was treated by Lund.

Had an interesting conversation with Lund Racing Support that resulted in their refusal to tune my engine due to the catalytic converter built into FFR's headers. After submitting a request with them I got a reply from Jon Lund Sr. that advised the following:

"Assuming you are using a Gen 3 Ford Performance control pack. The CATs could be a problem as the Ford Performance calibration is design to not use CATs and rear 02s are off as well as all emissions items. Those mini CATs are going to get hot and eventually collapse and clog. I would remove them. If you are concerned about noise then put a muffler farther down range. Other than that I don't see any problems tuning it.".

After replying that I'd like to proceed with the cat in-place due to the amount of work that would involve as well as the effects of not having a cat, (e.g. header removal, bodywork required for new headers, the smell without a cat, etc) Jon Lund Sr. replied:

"Honestly not interested in tuning it. In its current state. The CATs will collapse as you are using them as a Muffler not a real CAT. The ECU can't provide what is needed to safely operate the CAT. The CAT that close to all four pipes will eventually overheat and have issues."

I was then immediately issued a refund without prompt. I thanked him for his help and we ended the conversation there.

So now I'm in a weird spot. Do I remove the cat? Do I find another tuner knowing what Jon told me and risk the cat overheating and collapsing? I've searched the forum and haven't found another example of Lund refusing to tune an engine due to the in-header catalytic converters so this seems like a first. Has anyone had their in-header cats collapse? Would really appreciate some advice here.

[Kbl7td]

Zero reason a competent tuner can’t tune that. I’d recommend a local dyno tuner. I’ve had my LS tuned remotely but that was with Holley efi.

[Blitzboy54]

Call Andrew at projectgattago@gmail.com. He did mine and a few others on this forum and he's awesome. He works remotely, its pretty sweet. If your interested PM me and I will send you his phone number

[Kbl7td]

Call Andrew at projectgattago@gmail.com. He did mine and a few others on this forum and he's awesome. He works remotely, its pretty sweet. If your interested PM me and I will send you his phone number

Agree with this. Andrew did my car too. Very easy to work with and came back time and time again to make sure things were dialed.

[edwardb]

Lund is very experienced with these crate motors. I've used them several times and was happy with the expertise and results. The feedback about the crate motor not having (or programmed for) post cat O2 sensors is exactly correct. Also those mini cats are much closer to the engine than on a stock setup. So I would at least consider what he's saying. My guess is your engine would tune OK and depending on how you're driving it, may not experience the cats getting hot and/or collapsing. I have zero experience with them. But it's sure something I would pay attention to. Little bit of Monday morning quarterback, but I've never been a fan of cats for reducing the noise level. Also, my two Coyote builds without cats have zero issues with exhaust smell short of putting your face up against the outlet. No lingering smell in the garage. None whatsoever from the cockpit. The combustion is very controlled and clean. But pretty sure I said that before.

[Hoooper]

Definitely possible, if the cat that has been used isnt intended to be that close to the cylinder. Some cats are meant to be like 2-3' away, while other cats are designed to be right at the end of the manifold which can be like 4" from the cylinder. I would sure hope the cats FFR puts in these are suitable for being installed where they are. Is the spec provided for the cats?

[Ted G]

Elliot Franklin (Mustang Corral) could be a choice for you. He is in Grass Valley (East of Sacramento) and has tons of experience with Cobra's, vintage mustangs, and has been building for over 25 years. Might be worth a call.

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel, this is really strange to me. As I mentioned to you, when I contacted Lund about a tune to my gen2 coyote with cats (at that time) their response was basically "sure, no problem. The cats don't make a difference one way or another as they're downstream of the O2 sensors." This was about a year ago. It might be worth understanding why they're giving you this answer now. Is there something specifically about the gen3 vs gen2 engine or PCM that prevents the use of cats in the headers or have they just had too many bad experiences in the past year and they've changed their position? I'd see if you could get a little more clarification from them. It might help guide how you move forward.

[rthomas98]

I would contact lund on this again just to confirm any misunderstandings. The GEN 3 coyote as of 2017 uses integrated cats in the exhaust manifolds on mustangs straight out of the flat rock factory. If what he is stating is true it means he won't do tunes for 2017 and newer mustangs. They are sat up the same way. The performance ECM are just re-flashed production ones as well there is nothing special compared to the production units.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181175&d=1678122570

[facultyofmusic]

Thanks everyone for your quick and thoughtful advice. I've followed up with Lund Racing to clarify any misunderstandings we might have. I also asked about the technical differences between gen2 and gen3 coyotes that makes one untunable. If I can't move forward with Lund I'll give Andrew and Elliott a call.


Lund is very experienced with these crate motors. I've used them several times and was happy with the expertise and results. The feedback about the crate motor not having (or programmed for) post cat O2 sensors is exactly correct. Also those mini cats are much closer to the engine than on a stock setup. So I would at least consider what he's saying. My guess is your engine would tune OK and depending on how you're driving it, may not experience the cats getting hot and/or collapsing. I have zero experience with them. But it's sure something I would pay attention to. Little bit of Monday morning quarterback, but I've never been a fan of cats for reducing the noise level. Also, my two Coyote builds without cats have zero issues with exhaust smell short of putting your face up against the outlet. No lingering smell in the garage. None whatsoever from the cockpit. The combustion is very controlled and clean. But pretty sure I said that before.

The cat is downstream of the O2 sensors in FFR's in-header-cat setup. Yes, the reason why this bothers me so much is exactly due to Lund's reputation on this forum. I'm currently thinking of ways to grind out the cat if it turns out necessary.

[facultyofmusic]

Quick response (as expected) from Lund:

No one has ever told use they are using CATs as Mufflers in the exhaust. None of these Cobra coyote swap guys have ever mentioned it so we didn't know. Now knowing it is a bad idea.

In regards to the OEM exhaust with cats:

You are trying to compare an OEM exhaust which "uses integrated cats in the exhaust manifolds on mustangs straight out of the flat rock" , This is true but an OEM ECU allows the calibration to go into COT Cat Over Temp Cooling" For emissions purposes. None of the Ford Performance ECU are intended to have any emissions items as the state "Off-Road" without the COT logic the CAT will get hot and eventually burn up and collapse which is exactly what happens to an OEM exhaust if COT is disabled in tuning.

Jon Lund Sr. offered to provide a tune as long as I understand that I've been warned plenty and any issues with the cat burning out down the line will not be on them. I've yet to decide which option I want. TBH the monkey engineer part of me thinks it would be a pretty cool experiment to see just what happens if I do keep the cat in. The smarter part of me says to think twice.

Regardless, this is good information. I'll also send an advisory email to FFR once I have enough information.

[JohnK]

Ah, I think he's getting hung up on the "cats as mufflers" part. The reality is that plenty of folks have run headers with cats in them with coyotes, and I have not heard of a single person come back to say that they've had issues with such a setup. Unless there's something unique about the programming of the gen3 PCM vs prior-gen coyotes (which doesn't appear to be the case based on his response) I would bet that you'd be fine.

The other way to look at it is, the likely/best case is that it works out fine and you have no issues. The worst case is that you have issues down the road with the cats and you find yourself where you are now - having to replace headers or try to remove the cat elements from the headers. Either way, you're no worse off trying to run them as they are now.

[facultyofmusic]

Ah, I think he's getting hung up on the "cats as mufflers" part. The reality is that plenty of folks have run headers with cats in them with coyotes, and I have not heard of a single person come back to say that they've had issues with such a setup. Unless there's something unique about the programming of the gen3 PCM vs prior-gen coyotes (which doesn't appear to be the case based on his response) I would bet that you'd be fine.

The other way to look at it is, the likely/best case is that it works out fine and you have no issues. The worst case is that you have issues down the road with the cats and you find yourself where you are now - having to replace headers or try to remove the cat elements from the headers. Either way, you're no worse off trying to run them as they are now.

I agree with you there. Might as well try it out and see what happens. :p


Definitely possible, if the cat that has been used isnt intended to be that close to the cylinder. Some cats are meant to be like 2-3' away, while other cats are designed to be right at the end of the manifold which can be like 4" from the cylinder. I would sure hope the cats FFR puts in these are suitable for being installed where they are. Is the spec provided for the cats?

Just following up on this: no I can't seem to find any specs on the cats. I suppose I could emaili FFR and ask about it but at this point I've decided to move forward regardless. Now I think about it, emailing FFR is probably a good idea as it will either let them know if new information or receive a response on their point of view on the matter.

[facultyofmusic]

You know what really puts a pause on your schedule? Moving! When I started this project I signed a lease for a single-family home that would give me the garage space needed to build this car. The plan was to move in a few weeks before the kit arrives, finish all the "big steps" during the 2-year lease, and move out to a more affordable home with a small single-car garage. I'm happy to report that everything was on schedule! I handed the house-keys back to the landlord and officially moved out.

My build thread was heavily neglected due to the lack of time and energy over the past 2 months. The new place is still a colossal mess but at least I have time. Let's catch up!

Following JohnK's example, I also decided to install wheel well liners. They are large bendy sheets of plastic with bulb seals on the perimeter shaped to the inside of the wheel well body area. I don't have pictures of mine pre-install but you can see what they look like out of the box in JohnK's post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31167-Greek-Guys-Garage-Roadster-Build-9509-(Nice-shoutout-on-Insta-about-my-build)&p=520117&viewfull=1#post520117).

Since I'm already installing wheel wells liners I no longer needed front elephant-ear panels. They weren't going to work anyways because I swapped FFR's F-panels for FFMetal's fat-tire F panels. When fitting the liners I realized there's a problem. It's not an issue due to the liners per-se, but the elasticity of the liner material definitely makes it worse. Let me explain:

The fiberglass body is great when there's structural rigidity. The part of the body right in-front of the side-pipe cut outs however, doesn't have support and is easily deformable. You can easily hold the bottom fin and move it in and out without much force:
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The wheel well liner material is very elastic and VERY STRONG. To get a good seal in the wheel well the liners push against the F-panel in the inside and the fenders on the others-side. When it pushes unsupported area described above the fiberglass deforms and bows outward by about 1/2in to 3/4in. TBH I couldn't visually tell the difference, but the fact that I KNOW it's deformed irritates me. I wanted the liners to seal well and the body to stay in shape. To solve this issue I made some brackets:
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It's essentially a U-channel with a large flap bent from a single piece of aluminum. It supports the fiberglass to prevent deformation and provides a surface for liner attachment. Once secured it looks like this:
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With the brackets attached the fiberglass is solid as a rock! While I was at it I also made brackets for the front of the wheel well. There was already a bolt there for the radiator support beam so it worked out perfectly.
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To secure the liners I used nutserts on all attachment points and secured the liner with 1/8in screws. I also stuck all my leftover sound-deadening material to the back of the liners. John if you're reading this it WAS a good idea and I could really tell the different before and after I put the sound-deadening material on.

[facultyofmusic]

The rear liners went on pretty easily as there are panels already installed on both ends. The end result looks like this:
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Looks good to me!

Jumping forward in time a bit here. I drove with the liners installed and actually go caught by a drizzle on a wet day. I took the liners off to inspect the results and I'm please with the amount of dirt it kept out. The underside of the body looks good as new!
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In summary I'd definitely recommend these liners to future builders. They look great and work great!

[JohnK]

Nice work! I still need to tackle my front elephant ears and wheel well liners, but I'm having too much fun driving the car.

[BrewCityCobra]

The rear liners went on pretty easily as there are panels already installed on both ends. The end result looks like this:
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Looks good to me!

Jumping forward in time a bit here. I drove with the liners installed and actually go caught by a drizzle on a wet day. I took the liners off to inspect the results and I'm please with the amount of dirt it kept out. The underside of the body looks good as new!
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In summary I'd definitely recommend these liners to future builders. They look great and work great!

Wow, these look great and I really like those brackets you fabricated. Perfect timing too as I'm about in the same spot for my build and was wondering how I was going to secure those liners in place.

That said, did you have any heat issues without the front elephant ears in place to act as a shield? With the liners directly exposed to the headers so I wasn't sure if you found it necessary to include any type of shielding.

[facultyofmusic]

That said, did you have any heat issues without the front elephant ears in place to act as a shield? With the liners directly exposed to the headers so I wasn't sure if you found it necessary to include any type of shielding.

Took the car out today to find out! With a mix of highway/local driving the liners stayed warm but nowhere near the level for concern. There's a good amount of space between the side-pipes and the liners and I wrapped my headers with heat-wrap so I'm guessing that helped. The part of my header that houses the cat isn't wrapped, but the panel part of the bracket perfectly blocks that area and the aluminum was only warm to the touch.

[facultyofmusic]

Showed up the smog ref's office on a bright sunny day! The green really pops under the burning californian sun.
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I could tell it wasn't the ref's first time seeing a kit cobra. He kinda just glanced at it and asked "factory five"? ...to which I said "yeah" and he disappeared into his office for a few mins before coming back out with the sticker. It seems he also knows just how OCD kit cobra builders can be so he gave me the sticker and told me to stick it on myself. I stuck it right next to the FFR provided serial plate which I riveted on the top of passenger footwell panel. I haven't yet decided how exactly I want to protect the sticker. Spray a layer of clear-coat over it? Cut a piece of acrylic and rivet it on top? IDK. I think the general advice is to not let it get wet.
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After I got my smog sticker I BOOKED IT to the DMV. This was going to be the big day! I'm sure I was the jolliest person standing in line at the DMV that week. :p The lady at the window (who knows my name by now) processed all the paperwork, packaged the info and gave it to the DMV branch manager... only to be pushed back. Why? Because the VIN verification form filled out by the CHP had a "5" that looked too much like an "S". That's right, even though EVERY OTHER PIECE OF PAPERWORK CLEARLY SAYS "5" THE BRANCH MANAGER WILL NOT ACCEPT IT. I was told to go back to the CHP office to redo my VIN verification.

Just thinking about that moment makes my blood boil. Are you F**KING SERIOIUS? REALLY?

I walked out of the DMV feeling incredibly dejected. So much for being the jolliest guy in line! When I got home I phoned the CHP office and luckily they were super responsible about it. The lady at the CHP office routed the form to the officer super quickly and I was able to pick up the "corrected" form just 2 days later. I once again went to the DMV and they finally accepted the paperwork. I walked out of the DMV with my plates in hand. I could feel tears almost coming out of my eyes as I held the plates in my hand. Thank you for the fond memories DMV but I hope I never come ever again.
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To celebrate the road-worthiness I ordered a custom license plate frame with my alma-mater's motto and name etched on it. I also swapped the rear quick-jacks for bumpers to complete the look. The license plate frame blends in well don't you think?
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No more driving on temporary permits for Dan! (please my naturally serious face. I was having fun I swear.)
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[facultyofmusic]

After a drive out in the wet there was a ridiculous amount of dirty water and dirt on the rear fenders. My paint is still (kinda) soft and I've been advised against putting anything on the paint until July (5 months after pickup) by Jeff, so I devised another plan. Mud flaps! The wheel well liners made this process easy as it was already very close to the fenders. I used some plastic push-rivets to secure a cheap plastic flap to the liners such that they pop out just enough to cover the exposed wheel.
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I've had then on for a while now and I'm surprised by how invisible they are. Perhaps it's the combination of the dark paint and wheel well liners, but I almost never notice them. I think I might just keep them on forever.

Since I was working around the front wheel wells I thought I might as well take care of some other stuff along the way. Ahh yes, the good'ol "while I'm at it..."

I love the look of the classic oil-cooler hoses visible in the front opening of 427 cobras. The coyote doesn't need an oil-cooler at all so I didn't plan to put anything there. It just looks... so empty...
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Luckily I still haven't installed a power-steering cooler yet! I've read on some forum thread that a power-steering cooler is highly recommended for autocrossing, which, I do plan to do in the future. Why not use the cooler as a power-steering cooler instead? I called up Mark at Breeze and explained the situation to him and got a modified "oil cooler kit" that had a few changes to accommodate the power-steering return line:
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The power-steering return line will attach via a push-loc fitting on the other side of the radiator aluminum near the top. Inside the radiator opening the line is converted from -6AN to -10AN then down to the "oil cooler". I had a hard time deciding if I want the classic red-blue oil cooler fittings or a more contemporary black-silver one. I went with the black-silver fitting since nothing else on my car is red or blue. If I ever want to change it I can just swap them out. :)

Looks much better now!
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[Nigel Allen]

Thanks for all the great photos and attention to detail in your writing.

Hope you get many fun miles.

Cheers,

Nigel

[facultyofmusic]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186293&d=1687670085

It's been almost 2 years since I started this project and it was time to move out of the "project house". Rent ain't cheap and now that I've finished all the major build steps I'm downsizing to a smaller, more financially viable place. It's been fun! Although I only had one car space 90% of the time (I shared rent with a housemate so he gets half of the garage), the other 10% would have been darn-near impossible without the space. The housemate wasn't too happy about the number of nights I asked to have the whole garage. I bought him enough dinners to not feel too bad about it.
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There was big shed in the backyard that housed little workshop. I had a vice, a drill-press, and my various power tools. It's surprising how much I got done with those those tools alone! Anyway I spent a weekend just clearing out the workshop space. Back to the way it was!
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The new place is a duplex with a small single-car garage. Not gonna lie I was incredibly upset the first day I drove my car to the new place. It was Much, Much smaller than I thought and I had no clue how the heck I was supposed to fit everything I had in this new space.
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Good thing the cobra is a really short car so I actually have space for my tool chests. Still though, I had to get creative and make use the most of my ceiling space. Slowly but surely I packed the garage full of my tools and hardware. I packed up my bigger power tools and consumables and gave them to my friend Thomas who's currently building a GT40 from scratch. He's the one that inspired me to build a car and he lent me half of the tools I used to build mine. It's only fair to give back some when I have the chance. :)
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...btw when I said from scratch I mean he welds his own frame and stuff. Dude's incredible! He just got his tranny a few days ago and did a test-fitment. Looking good!
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[facultyofmusic]

Was preparing to wax my car when I saw 2 huge spider-cracks in the paint on my driver-side door. I poked around to make sure there wasn't some bolt from the door-latches pushing against the outer fiberglass. There's also no visible notches you'd see from rock chips. It looks like the surface underneath the paint itself bulged and made that crack. I tried my best to take pictures of the cracks (camera wouldn't focus):
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I searched around the forum and it looks to be due to fiberglass settling and there isn't anything you can do about it other than wait for them to show up and fix them later. (no fault of Jeff here). I wonder, perhaps I should have "baked" the doors and lids under the sun before I brought it to Jeff? I left the body on a buck in the backyard but the doors were wrapped in paper and tucked away in the shed. Would that have helped? Not that it matters anymore now, but if that's something I should have done then it's good info for future builders to take note.

[Fman]

That is a bummer, I would think your painter would work something out with you. Would not be hard to ship out a door to him and have him repair and spray it.

[Ted G]

Bummer on the doors. I'd try what Fman said. I know Ken Pike likes the fiberglass to sit in the sun before primer, after primer and after paint.

[Railroad]

Is this in an area where you would have a layer of bondo, or filler?
I saw this on my neighbors car. He had a dent fixed. Whether they painted too soon or the filler was too thick, etc, I do not know.
Same cracks.
Watching, might learn something.

[Alan_C]

Damn man, so sorry to see the cracks. Painting is hard and you can be making a mistake along the way without knowing it.
I wish you luck in addressing the cracks and their repair. If you determine the cause, please share it with us in the hope we can dodge the bullets that hit your paint.

[LTJ]

Just joined the forum yesterday. I can't wait to go through this thread. I live in Santa Cruz area and really interested in your experience with registration SB100. Also, I had issues with my 2018 coyote F150. Had major oil consumption issues with the engine and the replacement engine. I did the lemon law and got a raptor instead with eco boost. Miss the V8 sound, but at least I'm not adding as much oil as fuel. I'm hoping he crate engines don't have the same issue. I know my F150 was the first year of the plasma coated ceramic cylinders vs. steel cylinder liners.

[facultyofmusic]

Well this is awkward!!!

At the time of me typing this the cobra is in a storage unit about 2 cities away. I did a lot of thinking before I made the decision and... well... let's just say money doesn't grow on trees. At least not in the Bay!

Ever since downsizing I've been fighting a battle of expectations. I bought ceiling shelves. Moved everything I don't need to the racks outside. Installed some wall-mounted drawers. Try as I may I just couldn't hold down the frustration of having so little space!! I must've been kidding myself when I thought a small one-car garage could do everything I've been doing when the reality is I simply can't. There's room to store the car, but not to work on it. There've been days when I got so depressed I purposefully avoided going out through the garage. The car transformed from a source of happiness and pride into a constant reminder of the inadequacies of my current living situation. I had to do something.

Sell the car?

I thought about that. Oh yes, more than a few times too! I've even stalked Bring-A-Trailer and other car auction sites to see how much one like mine would go for. It wasn't long until realized however that even if I COULD sell it for more than full material cost of the car I'd still have to think about it. There are still so much I want to do! I want to learn how to do leatherwork so I can do my own interior trims. I want to sculpt a stylish trans-tunnel cover. I want to entertain the idea of a gated-shifter. I couldn't let the car go now. It's too important to me.

Olivia's been very well aware of how unhappy I've been. This, in turn, makes me feel worse as I didn't want my failure to meet my own expectations to bring her mood down. One day during dinner she mentioned the idea of storing it somewhere. "Too expensive." I said. It's true. Anywhere nearby will cost at least $200 a month just to store the car and that made no sense to me. She then asked what if I stored it somewhere further away and move-on to another life-goal? I stopped chewing as I did a few round of mental gymnastics. It's actually a great idea!

The core issue here is I simply cannot rent a place big enough to comfortably work on the car with any amount of financial sensibility. Due to our work commute and work hour needs we'd be paying at least $4000 a month just to be able to occasionally work on the car because land is so expensive here. Yes yes, rent being expensive is nothing new and I will spare you the rest of my thoughts on the matter. The idea is that I don't have to work on the cobra here and now.

I decided to put the project on hold until we move out of the Bay. It's been at the back of our heads for a while now. Sometime in the next 5-6 years Olivia would know which medical school she'll go to; and I would have saved enough funds to put down a mortgage for a house with a garage big enough for my workshop needs. I found a place to store the car 2 cities away for a reasonable amount of money and I plan to keep it there until we move out. I'll go every month or two to check on it. It has wheel cradles and a battery maintainer plugged in. I added generous amounts of gasoline stabilizer so the fuel shouldn't go bad for a long time. The car being away-on-leave also allows us tremendous freedom on the type of places we can move to. A enclosed private garage is no longer required. We can downsize further into an apartment if we want! Save more every month so I can get to that down-payment even faster.

So what now?

I've been donating some of my consumables (drill bits, pop rivets, grease, nuts and bolts, etc) to fellow local builders who are working on their cobras. My bigger power-tools have been lent to my friend who's building his GT40. He'd make better use of them than I for the next few years.

I still come back to forum to catch-up on a few build threads and to see if I can help out by answering some questions. It's good to still be in-the-know.

As for that huge cobra sized hole in my life I've dedicated it to two things:

First is career. Now that the pandemic is pretty much over (at least where I am right now) and everyone's back at the office It's a good time to start gunning for that promotion again. More salary is always good! Mo money mo car parts!

Second is music. Music has always been a big part of my life (you know how my username is "facultyofmusic"?) and I'd like to start learning the trumpet. I can't tell you how many nights I fell asleep to Chet Baker's mellow tunes or how many hours I spent watching Dizzy Gillespie's cheeks puff up as he dumps notes out of that horn. Jazz Trumpet has been stuff of dreams for me so I'm going to get started while I can!

It was the most perfect morning when I drove the cobra to its new temporary home. Cruising on the interstate I blasted "Take It Easy" by the Eagles in attempt to brush off the sweet sorrow of the occasion.

Plugged in the battery maintainer. Took the keys. "See you later buddy!" The door closed. I hopped into my friend's mini and we headed back home.

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[gbranham]

I realize it's a very long way away, but if you can get it to me in Tonganoxie, KS, you can store it for free for as long as you want.

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[460.465USMC]

Hey Daniel. Man, that's a tough choice. I thought prices were getting high up north in my neck of the woods, but nothing compared to where you live. Ouch!

I appreciated your build thread. You had/have a lot of clever ideas and ingenuity. No doubt these will also serve you well in your new, two-fold mission to make the next promotion at work, and learn a new instrument. I hope you check back in when you hit either milestone. In the meantime, thanks again for the helpful build thread, and best wishes on your next goals.

[Fman]

Daniel, you can do what everyone else is doing in the Bay Area and move to Northern CA. There are so many properties here with shops, larger 3-4 car garages, bigger lots. Prices are also much more affordable on homes and rent. Many employers are allowing employees to work from home. The downside is we get roasted with heat in the summer months and winters are a tad colder with more rain. I moved out of the bay back in 1993 and don't regret it for one moment. Personally every time I return for a visit I always think I am glad I don't live there anymore. Good luck with your new job opportunities and hope you can get it all figured out.

[JohnK]

Hey Daniel! I'm both sad for you and excited for you. I know how hard it must be to do what you just did. I remember being where you are now, and having to step away from something I loved doing to take care of other exciting things in life (career, getting married, buying a house, having kids). The things that I truly missed, I came back to. The stuff that I realized I didn't really need in my life I didn't miss giving up. Enjoy the proverbial ride :p

That said, my only advice to you would be to think about how long you're really going to step away from the roadster. For me, putting things on the back burner "for a little bit" was several years in some cases. One example - stopped playing golf regularly when we had our kids. By the time I decided to get back into the game all my gear was old and outdated. Putting a roadster in storage for a bit with some Stabil sounds OK but I could easily see you coming back to it after several months or years and finding wiring that's been chewed by mice, a clogged fuel system, a dead battery, a complicated computer-controlled engine that just doesn't run right any more... It seems to me that you really enjoyed the build process, so if it's going to be any sort of lengthy break you might want to consider selling the roadster now while you can get top-dollar for a nice new build, use that money for your other pursuits, and then get to experience the joy of building another one with all the learning you've compiled from the first one when the time is right again. Just food for thought...

This is coming from the perspective of someone who has a garage full of $&^% from hobbies I meant to get back to and never did... old SCUBA gear, motorcycle gear... etc. After that stuff sits for several years and you realize you're no longer going to come back to it, it's tough to unload for anything more than pennies on the dollar.

-John

[toadster]

you can come work on mine :) love your build!

hope you get it figured out - like Fman said, move inland a bit, and if you can keep your bay area paycheck it's pretty lucrative - TONS of houses out here for a fraction of the cost!

[facultyofmusic]

I realize it's a very long way away, but if you can get it to me in Tonganoxie, KS, you can store it for free for as long as you want.


Thank you for the kind offer! If I lived anywhere less than 2 hours drive away from you I’d definitely consider it. I still do want to check up and take it out for a drive a few times a year so KS is a little far :P If I do ever stop by your neck of the woods I’ll be sure to swing by to say hi!


... I hope you check back in when you hit either milestone. In the meantime, thanks again for the helpful build thread, and best wishes on your next goals.


... Good luck with your new job opportunities and hope you can get it all figured out.


hope you get it figured out - like Fman said, move inland a bit, and if you can keep your bay area paycheck it's pretty lucrative - TONS of houses out here for a fraction of the cost!

Thank you gentlemen! I’m thankful to have made a build thread others appreciate. It means a lot to me to be able to help others here on the forum.

The possibility of relocating to northern CA has been a topic discussion around the dinner table for a while now. The conclusion from my various discussions with Olivia and my friends is that while it’s cheaper out of the bay we’re still at an age where we can push hard for our careers and make it worthwhile. The idea is that hopefully we’ll look back in 10 years and be glad we gave it a good run before kids became our main priority. “Work hard play hard” as they say. I’ve played pretty hard with the roadster for the past 2.5 years so I guess it’s time to work hard again :P


That said, my only advice to you would be to think about how long you're really going to step away from the roadster. For me, putting things on the back burner "for a little bit" was several years in some cases. One example - stopped playing golf regularly when we had our kids. By the time I decided to get back into the game all my gear was old and outdated. Putting a roadster in storage for a bit with some Stabil sounds OK but I could easily see you coming back to it after several months or years and finding wiring that's been chewed by mice, a clogged fuel system, a dead battery, a complicated computer-controlled engine that just doesn't run right any more... It seems to me that you really enjoyed the build process, so if it's going to be any sort of lengthy break you might want to consider selling the roadster now while you can get top-dollar for a nice new build, use that money for your other pursuits, and then get to experience the joy of building another one with all the learning you've compiled from the first one when the time is right again. Just food for thought...

You hit the nail on the head John. The main question on my mind now (and for the past few weeks) is whether or not I convert the roadster into money to invest into my next future build. The build itself is indeed the part I enjoyed the most. Having built this one there are so many ideas I have that have yet to be implemented; so many things I’d do differently if I could do it again. The car is a blast to drive, but if someone were to give me material cost on the roadster right now so I can go build another one I’m not so sure I’d turn away the money.

That’s the other half of the equation: whether or not I’d be able to sell it for material cost. With the complete kit, gen 3 coyote, T56, seats, various upgrades, and Jeff Miller’s paint-job I’ve put at least 65k into the build already. I’m not sure there’s someone out there who’s willing to pay that amount of money for it. The top of the trans-tunnel is still bare aluminum and the door-sill aluminum still hasn’t been installed. If a buyer wants a “finished car” then my roadster in its current state isn’t really “finished”. If a buyer wants a “kit to build” then there isn’t much to build aside from a few finishing touches.

[JohnK]

It's absolutely a tough decision, and a gut-wrenching one when you've invested so much time, money and effort into the build. The only thing I'd caution against (here comes my Econ major :p) is falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy. What you spent on the build is irrelevant to the decision you need to make on keeping vs. selling it at this point in time. Whatever you can sell it for today, regardless of whether it equals what you've invested, is almost certainly more than what you could sell it for if it sits in storage for the next 4 years.

That said, you're always welcome to come hang out and wrench on mine! Don't be a stranger. Let me know if you ever want to come by the Saturday morning breakfasts with the crew at the Los Gatos Diner. I don't go all that often but if you want to go I'll definitely meet up with you there.

[cv2065]

Sounds like you don't have much left for a turn key car to get the max value for it. Why not take the time to finish it up and then sell. As John said, waiting 4 years and then selling doesn't make much financial sense.

[Jeff Kleiner]

... Whatever you can sell it for today, regardless of whether it equals what you've invested, is almost certainly more than what you could sell it for if it sits in storage for the next 4 years.



John just made the point I was about to. Parked it is going to do nothing but depreciate. Example #1, A friend bought one a year ago that was mothballed several years earlier when it was 95% complete and literally paid pennies on the dollar. Example #2, I've completed 2 orphaned builds for customers, both of which had sat idle uncompleted for 2-4 years and were purchased for a fraction of what was invested. While contemplating your options don't forget to factor in the cost of storage. What's a 10X20 unit go for in your area...200, 300. 400 per month? That's thousands a year that you'll never recoup. If you're going to sell I have to think sooner rather than later will make the most financial sense.

Good luck with whatever decision you make Daniel.

Jeff